# Is my new baby rat depressed? Should I get him a friend?



## Shatto (May 19, 2013)

Pretty much that, my pretty timid baby rat usually hides under the second story of his cage in the corner and sleeps but recently he lays on the edge of the second story up against the cage bars and looks tired and depressed if someone sticks their fingers in the cage he'll start licking them. In his cage he's quiet and sleeps but as soon as I open the door all he wants to do is climb up my hand to get out and explore but he never strays far from home, he's still too young and curious to hold and cuddle with and still too young to be interested in treats for training. Should I get him a friend? Is he depressed? If so should it be another male? Will I need to buy another cage to keep them away for a while at first? 

Sorry for all the questions >.<


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## Debra (Apr 28, 2013)

Absolutely get him a friend. Rats are very social and are happiest when they have a friend. 

I don't know how long you've had your new baby for but if you just got him from a petstore and can get another rat of the same sex from that store then you might be able to skip quarantine. 

If not, you will need to keep your babys friend seperate for a couple weeks to make sure he isn't sick. 

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## Shatto (May 19, 2013)

I've had him almost a week, it will be from the same store but they were all separated and alone in their tanks so I was just wondering. It's also a male only store


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## Nathan4d (Feb 17, 2013)

Well if he is a male you would only want to put him with a male. Unless he is neutered then putting him with a girl would be chaos as babies would be popping out everywhere 


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

Get him another friend as soon as you can. The sleeping a lot isn't a good sign, it's a sign of rat depression. He'll be easy to introduce to another young boy so go this weekend if you can!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

As is often the case, I've done things differently although the answers you have had are absolutely correct.

Our true shoulder rat was raised as an only child. But we were quite aware that rats needed constant companionship. I mainly work from home and my daughter had summer vacation so from day one Fuzzy Rat was out of her "cage" a term I use very loosely, and out and about with us. When I was working at my desk she would roam my office, when my daughter was home she would follow her around the house, when we ate meals Fuzzy Rat was on the table eating from our plate and after basic shoulder rat training, which started before she was even 5 weeks old she went shopping with us, ate at restaurants and played chase games with the kidlets at the soccer field or at the park. The fact that she was so small endeared her to most of the merchants in town who didn't see her as much of a threat and she became a hit with their customers... Most people thought she was a gerbil, and once we told them she was a rat they were already petting her so it was to late to recoil in terror. We took Fuzzy Rat to the mountains and the beach and before bed, I'd take her to the soccer field and let her run along the top of the chain link fence to tire herself out. Some days, I'd say, she spent better than 16 hours busily engaged with her human family, meeting and greeting people and roaming. We took long walks with her at the park, as she would walk at heel like a dog and it would amuse the other people who had never seen anyone walk a rat before.... And to be honest, I always took great pleasure at pointing out to dog owners that they had to keep their dogs on a leash whereas our rat stayed with us and was allowed to free range the park. At the beach she would jump into the lake and swim from kid to kid and at the playground she would purposefully dart under kids little running feet so as to regularly take my breath away. 

I suppose that the first time I ever told another rat owner about Fuzzy Rat the first thing they told me was that I was terribly wrong not to give Fuzzy Rat a rattie friend. But honestly, I couldn't imagine that the kind of lifestyle that Fuzzy Rat was living would work for many rats and that would leave us with another rat sitting home alone. But to be sure I wasn't doing anything wrong I introduced Fuzzy Rat to a Vet and a retired rat breeder and both told me that rather than just being happy and well adjusted, she was easily the most social, friendly and happy rat that they had ever seen. In fact, the vet was amazed when Fuzzy Rat did her "calm the dog trick" to a dog that normally had to be muzzled that he invited her to be his regular patient and offered her a discount spay and introduced her to his own children.

So, very long story short, a single rat can be perfectly happy and well adjusted. But only if you are willing to spend just about every waking minute with it. Secondly, Fuzzy Rat was under 5 weeks old the first time she ran away and came back on her own. We held and cuddled Fuzzy Rat constantly from when she was the size of my daughter's pet mice and fit neatly in the palm of my hand.... There is absolutely no such thing as being too young to hold and cuddle with. When rats are pups, the amount of love and attention they get will determine how competent and loving they grow up to be. Some of the most precious memories are of Fuzzy Rat napping in my hand. And yes I said hand, as in singular. And for the first few weeks we had Fuzzy Rat, my daughter would fall asleep on my easy chair with the silly little rat passed out, zonked after a long day of play on her lap. I would gently carry the sleepy rat to it's cage as my wife would snug the snoozing kidlet into bed.

Now Fuzzy Rat is old and sick, she has lead an amazing life for a rat and she has a rattie friend that she actually chose for herself. She doesn't travel as much anymore as the mountain cabin at the lake has been sold and she sleeps much of the time, and my daughter is in school and I have less time for her... It's nice that she finally has someone to groom her tail and snuggle with on cold nights. More or less, Fuzzy Rat now has a pet rat of her own and everyone should have a pet rat. 

I honestly didn't tell tell this story to contradict the better advise already given, but rather to remark that what is possible isn't necessarily doable. If you can be with your rat 24x7 and give it all of the attention it needs it will reward you with an amazing friendship. And no matter how young your rat is, it's never too early to snuggle and hold your rat, actually the time you spend doting on your rat now will improve the trajectory of his whole life and make him more competent and self assured and loving.

But if you can't make the commitment, do get your rat a friend as soon as possible. Rats need constant companionship, whether it is human or rat doesn't matter. But if your rat looks bored and lonely that's a bad sign and something you should address immediately.

BTW, true shoulder rats are very rare! Few rats have the peculiar calmness of temperament and physical and emotional competency to be allowed to free range outdoors. And not many people have the time to safely learn shoulder rat training and handling and work with their rats to the degree we did with Fuzzy Rat. Most likely if you take your rat outside you are going to get him lost or killed. 

Here is a photo of when Fuzzy Rat was an only rat, happy and well adjusted, and now even with a rat friend she's still our best friend first second photo.


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## pwoink (Feb 19, 2013)

You should get him a friend just because that's a good rule of thumb, but your rattie doesn't seem depressed to me! He sounds like a baby -- they need lots of sleep. The fact that he is eager to come out and play with you makes it seem like he's pretty well adjusted for a new rat.

As for how to introduce the new friend you get him, there have been some great resources posted on the forums. Good luck!


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## Shatto (May 19, 2013)

I would love to let him out more often and a few times when he's more calm and sits still so I can pet him, he'd fall asleep on my stomach and I'd sleep lightly as I'm wary of waking up and he'd be gone, lost forever or trapped somewhere. I'm terrified of losing him in the house or if he falls off the bed. I love cuddling him when I can but he won't stay in one or even two hands, he's like the energizer bunny and just keeps going, crawling all over my hands and won't sit still lol. Is it okay to take to take him outside on a leash? My mother and I were worried he might catch something and get sick. Also I'm sure being litter trained helps but what did you do about the pooping when he's out? Lol I've had to change my clothes several times a day because of it. I'm never mad at him for it, a few of the time I think it was fear poop as my little brother would come in suddenly and startle him causing him to run up my shoulder and relieve himself. I think he is too young to train right now because he just isn't interested in any treats, all he wants to do is explore and climb which is understandable if he lived in a tank most of his life.


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## pwoink (Feb 19, 2013)

I wouldn't take him out on a leash -- I'd be worried about how easy to is to slip out of those things, especially for a little rattie. Don't be worried about him falling off the bed, though! Rats are good jumpers and a regular height bed shouldn't be a problem, even if he's a clumsy baby still.

My two month old dudes have been home with me for a week and are totally not interested in getting petted -- they have too much to do! -- so I try to pet them when they're eating, to get them used to it. They go in the litter box 75% of the time, even when out on the bed (I put the box out for them), but they do get overexcited sometimes. Since their poops are solid, I don't really mind picking up after the occasional mess. As for clothing, you could try having a designated rat hoodie -- something you keep next to the cage and pop on quickly when you're about to take the little guy out. That way, you don't have to change clothes so often.

I'm not sure about being too young for training, though. Young rats are excitable, but they're still clever. Have you tried to give him different treats? My rats couldn't care less about strawberries, but stand between them and a cauliflower at your own peril. Also, maybe he gets overfull on his regular, non-treat food? You could try limiting feeding times to play times, where you hand-feed him as part of training first, and then give him the rest of his breakfast/lunch/dinner/snack after some training.


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## Shatto (May 19, 2013)

Yeah I think he's still too small for a leash but I was just worried. I don't know how sensitive rats are to infections and if it would be unsafe to take him outside. I have also noticed when he poops it's mostly normal but one of his poops usually is kinda green and soft while the rest are fine, is that normal?


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

First, rats learn nothing from being in a cage. They don't get calmer or tamer or in any way more competent at free ranging your home... Rats learn to free range and not get lost by exploring. In general rats don't get lost, the do however get stepped on or killed in closing doors or attacked by larger pets. Remember, rats run mazes, they have a special sense for where they are and are amazing at knowing where they are going and they map their locations on the fly and have a spectacular memory for places and how to move around them. Fuzzy Rat actually lead us home from a playground more than half a mile away, retracing our footsteps almost precisely to the step. Then she actually calculated a shortcut that would take her through other people's back yards and we had end the experiment. When I mean rats have amazing spacial memories, I mean really amazing. Rats are also really good at not getting stuck in paces or getting into things they can't get out of. That said, you still should supervise your rats first free range sessions after you have spent some time bonding and teaching him his name and the basic come and up on hand commands.

No rat is ever too young for training. And the younger your rat is the more love and attention it needs. 

As to training your rat to either become a limited or true shoulder rat, this can be done depending on your rat. I've written a thread on the subject. But every rat has it's limits. Some rats can never go outdoors, many can be limited shoulder rats and can go certain places with you under your very close supervision, and a very very few can become true shoulder rats, pretty much competent to free range outdoors with only limited supervision. 

For the time being, work with your rat indoors, build a bond teach him his name and to come on command and to come up on hand. Let him explore under supervision first then more on his own to develop his competence... then if you ever really want to go outdoors read my thread on outdoor activities and shoulder rat training. Do not take your rat out on a leash or into your yard, etc until you read my thread or you very well will kill or lose your rat.

Rat training is risk management. Your rat is safest in it's cage, but it will become hostile and lonely and learn to be completely incompetent and helpless. This is a tragic waste of a rat's life. Managing risks involves taking your rat out of the cage and letting him push his limits... First he'll learn to navigate the couch, then the floor then the house. With every step you run the risk of your rat getting stepped on or caught in a door. And with every experience he has exploring he will learn to be more competent. Fuzzy Rat knows to keep her tail away from the wheels of my chair... luckily the tail tip she lost learning this lesson grew back. By the time your true shoulder rat go up a tree or vanishes into the bushes, you are way into an extreme level of risk taking and risk management and only a few rats will survive to this point if you don't know where to stop.

So you do have to take risks, first to let your rat explore the couch, then you patiently wait for it to come back out from under the Fridge or stove as you test your come command, then when it's gone overnight somewhere in your home, and eventually once you are really sure of your rat, when it disappears into the bushes one night after dark. If you have a true shoulder rat, it will be back, if not you have just had a very bad day. So don't be afraid to take risks, don't avoid them, manage them. Let your rat prove itself to you and build it's competence and confidence. Learn to be it's alpha human and how to manage your rat. Do it one small step at a time, use caution but don't get paranoid.

For me, the worst thing I could have done to Fuzzy Rat was to keep her in a cage... She's lived an amazing life, worth every carefully planned risk, stupid crazy risk, misadventure, multiple injuries and even poisoning. She has survived and thrived. But on the other hand, I've posted my guide to shoulder rat training that I didn't have to work with when I wrote it. You on the other hand have the guide and would be well advised to learn from our mistakes and experience.

It's your rat and your call, odds are you are never even going to see a rat like Fuzzy Rat, except in photos much less own one. But if you don't take some small risks you will never know what you've got and how competent he can be. And you might actually have a shoulder rat and never know it. And he will get old and die and have missed out on his whole life and you will have missed the rat great friendship of yours.

Fuzzy Rat at the playground taking a break between playing with kids:










"Look daddy no hands!" Fuzzy Rat catching the breeze atop a tree... zoom on max. (So you see anything look risky in this photo?)









Look she's going back to the car on her own again.... We were doing something else and she got bored. (she's the white dot next to the black trash can)









These are the kinds of risks you shouldn't even think of trying with your own rat at this stage of the game, but with very careful risk management and lots of bonding and training this is what a rat can become.


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## pwoink (Feb 19, 2013)

Shatto said:


> Yeah I think he's still too small for a leash but I was just worried. I don't know how sensitive rats are to infections and if it would be unsafe to take him outside. I have also noticed when he poops it's mostly normal but one of his poops usually is kinda green and soft while the rest are fine, is that normal?


I think predators and the possibility of your rat running away are much more of a danger than infections when it comes to taking your rat outside. Since you go outside all the time, you would have brought back anything there was outside to the inside and to your rat, anyway!

I don't have any experience with that kind of poop, sorry!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Actually, I got blindsided by baby wood ticks called nymphs once... We pulled about 11 of the tiny beasties off of Fuzzy Rat after a 4th of July party... Poor rat was having a really bad day.... She woke up with the worst hangover of her life after spending the night chasing and emptying everyone's left over tequila shot glasses and naturally as there were young people at the party someone spilled a beer on the floor which Fuzzy Rat sopped up as a chaser. Actually to her credit, she was the life of the party and outlasted most of the human guests. Then there was the poison mushroom she ate that nearly killed her, our part wild just passed them right by. And yes there are predators, the worst of which are owls. Fuzzy can sense cats, and foxes from quite a distance but owls really spook her... they are silent and invisible in the darkness. Outdoor rat poison bait stations have a certain attraction to domestic rats as to hard bodied wild boy rats. But honestly the fastest way to kill your rat is just to close your car door without checking where your rat is first. 

Being and experienced shoulder rat trainer, means keeping one eye on the sky for birds of prey, knowing where your rat is and what it's going to do in any given situation. A true shoulder rat makes it really look easier than it is, and lots of experience makes it second nature so it doesn't feel hard at all, but with a rat like Amelia who can break training with very little warning, you're always running potential crisis scenarios in your head as you go and anticipating and preventing them. It's scary easy to get your rat killed outdoors.


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