# Not using back leg at all?



## Tesumph (Aug 12, 2014)

Hi everyone. About a week ago, my rat Cave (male, 1.5 years, neutered) started walking funny, using his back leg very gingerly. I didn't feel it very closely, but it had no visible swelling or color change. He seemed annoyed by it, but I didn't pick up any signs of pain. Now, a few days later, he's stopped using it completely. I felt it very thoroughly today and realized that the knee joint (not ankle) is kind of... not swollen, but oddly larger than it should be? He wasn't bothered by me touching it. His foot is not cold or pale, nor swollen at all. He's alert and happy, eating, drinking, playing... In fact he had already learnt how to run on the wheel and climb the cage bars with three legs. He just keeps it held up behind him, sometimes dragging it slightly, always with his toes relaxed. Occasionally he loses his balance and "falls" onto the lame leg, but besides that he's chipper. If I push on the foot, he doesn't push back at all. But he can still move his hip. I haven't taken him into our vet, simply because he isn't in pain at all and I don't think a vet can or will do anything. Is it possible that he dislocated his knee? I've put him in a flat "cage" (actually a series of connected tubs) with no wheel for now. I don't know what else to do. Should I try to restrain him from climbing and jumping, despite his attempts? Does this sort of thing ever heal itself? If not, will he get along just fine with a "useless" leg? Thanks, and sorry for the length.


----------



## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

It sounds like he has injured it in some way, possibly at the joint. How is he when you manipulate it? I would deifnitly move him to a low level cage with his cage mates, minimising exercise for now.

Actually the absence of pain can be a sign that the injury is worse than if they found it painful. I would definitly get him to the vet and start him on some metacam (painkiller) and if that doesnt improve his use of it then give him an x-ray. The reason i say this is just 2 weeks ago something similar happened to my Weevil.

I noticed on the saturday that weevil was limping badly on his front left leg. I'm pretty good at spotting rat injuries and this came on quickly. I could manipulate it, prod it etc without him even flinching, and whilst he seemed to struggle to put weight on it he was using it to eat and wash, though in a slightly odd way. I felt a slightly "odd" joint around his elbow. I took him to the vet the next day (they do an urgent appointments surgery on sundays thankfully), and he was put on metacam, the vet was as mystified as me. I booked a follow up on tuesday, giving him a couple days to show improvement. There was none so we went back in and then the vet arranged an x-ray for the next day, we thought it was likley to be an injury causing some kind of nerve damage, as if they wrench a joint badly enough they can tear the nerves there, but wanted to rule out an injury that could get worse. The x-ray wasnt good, his upper arm was fractured in several places and the bits of bone were in a jumbled mess. He was clearly in no pain so the nerves had been damaged too, meaning that by moving around he had probably made it worse. Being the front arm there was little the vet could do for it and he explained it was likley to get infected or start hurting him badly as the nerve damage healed. I had little choice and had him put to sleep, he wasnt even a year old and a home bred boy to boot (the one of the litter i kept because he loved me more than any one else). 

A break on the rear leg is more fixable, if its bad they couldnt spliint it but rats tolerate misisng a back leg relatively well. It is important to find out if there is a break though, as if there is your guy could be doing damage to himself without knowing.


----------



## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

A few weeks ago, one of my girls started not using her back leg the same way you described. She would hold it off the ground but it looked limp. When I gently stretched it out she would cry in pain, but her foot wasn't swollen and nothing was wrong from what I could tell. I thought it was a sprain or something so I left it be and like a day later she was using it again like normal. Now, another of mine has a sprained foot and a degloved tail, so I have her on children's ibuprofen for the pain. Maybe you could get that? If it doesn't correct itself soon, I would take Cave to a vet and get it x-rayed like Isamurat said.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Tesumph (Aug 12, 2014)

Today is the same. Still happy to drag around his leg, no pain, still eating. I tried stretching his leg and then "pushing" it back again, and he didn't really react. It was a little stiff, but it moves. Honestly if he was in any pain at all I would've been to the vet a week ago. And, he currently doesn't have any cagemates. He was living with older rats who all passed away recently, and he'll be introduced to four new rats in a week or two. But anyway, there is no swelling at all. It looks like a normal, limp leg. I'll see about going to the vet, but honestly I'm running dry from two URI, a urinary infection, and then adopting four fixed babies. But, if this doesn't get better, I'll see what the vet says.


----------



## Tesumph (Aug 12, 2014)

I want to try SOMETHING before I empty my wallet at the vet.. again. Does anyone know if arnica gel is safe for rats? Maybe rub some into the joint and then wipe off the excess? What about glucosamine and chondroitin?


----------



## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

honestly the no pain bit worries me far more than if he was hurting, if it hurts its something much simpler, a sprain or a straightforward break. A rat shouldnt stop using a leg unless something happens to it, no main means its damaged the nerves generally. With weevils leg both me and the vet could manipulate it, move it around, even squeaze gently, and it hid a really nasty break.

You could try him on kids ibuprofene suspension to see if it reduces any swelling and gets him using it again. I would hang fire on the introducitons until you know whats going on, the last thing you want is him using it too much and damaging himself further.


----------



## Tesumph (Aug 12, 2014)

So I have children's ibuprofen. The bottle says 100 mg per 5 mL. Cave's weight is 330g. Yea, I know he's really underweight. He stopped eating when his friend died, and just now starting to gain it back. How much would his dose be? Try as I might, I really suck as dosages. I think it's like .25 ml, right?


----------



## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

You can't possibly be as awful at dosages as me, I literally don't understand any of it I'm horrible at math. I had someone from the Rat fan Club calculate it for me, he's very helpful. He told me that for my 340g girl I should give her 0.75 mL of children's ibuprofen, and since Cave is about the same weight, I'm assuming that dosage will be about the same too 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

For a moderate dose, .8ml


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Wait I forgot to covert. It's actullay .3 jeez.


----------



## Tesumph (Aug 12, 2014)

Lol, .75 and .3 are very different answers. I'm still trying to work it out myself and failing. Uh, third opinion, please stand up?


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

It's .3. I forgot to convert because I'm an idiot. It is weight in kg times the dose in mg, I used 20mg/ml. Then you will times by the concentration (5/100=.05ml). So, .33 * 20 * .05.


----------



## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

Is it possible that guy who told me 0.75 forgot to conver too? Should I Lower the dose to like 0.35?


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Tesumph (Aug 12, 2014)

Okay. I'm gonna give him .3 and pray he reacts to it. At this point, I feel like even him feeling pain in the leg would be an improvement. Anything but total lifelessness, ugh.


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Max dose would be .5ml. 

If it doesn't seem to help, I'd really look into taking him to the vet. Sometimes, steroid shots make the difference between recovery and lifelessness.


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

ksaxton said:


> Is it possible that guy who told me 0.75 forgot to conver too? Should I Lower the dose to like 0.35?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Do you have the concentration of your medicine? I can check the math. Very likely he is over adjusting.


----------



## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

The concentration of mine is the same as Tesumph's, 100mg per 5 mL and she's 340g


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Yeah, you want between .34-.5 mls. I would message him to check his math in case he is giving erroneous advice to others.


----------



## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

Well now I'm skeptical to ask him for dosing advice, when the Baytril gets here I'll have to have someone here spell it out for me Because I really am that terrible at math  


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

I wouldnt use the dosage off the bottle, rats have a much faster metabolism than even human children, so actually tolerate a relatively higher dose (hence why whenever me and my vet are checking dosages he's always surprised how much they need compared to a dog or cat).
A good dosage to use (comes from an experienced english rat owner who is also a microbiologist and considered one of the authorities on rat health over here) is 1 ml / 500g rat. That should be a simple one to work out but if your struggling let me know.

Longer term metacam is a better option as each dose lasts slightly longer but its fine to test the theory.


----------



## Tesumph (Aug 12, 2014)

Just a quick update for anyone curious or going through the same thing: I never took Cave to a vet, but kept up the ibuprofen every 12 hours. Besides that I only kept up the fatty foods (he's now 375g), kept him in a flat cage, and gave him lots of love. Now two weeks later he is 95% better, using his toes again, using his leg completely, pushing back when I push on his foot, etcetera. The swelling at the joint and hardness is gone too. I'm very pleased with his recovery.  thank you everyone for the doses and help!


----------

