# Is separating them the best thing to do?



## Ratnamedbuddy (Jan 10, 2017)

So I've posted before about my younger male rat scaring my older male rat because he's very boisterous and has been ripping the fur out of my older rat causing him to bleed and creating bold spots. It had now come to my attention that buddy (the older rat) gets squeaky breathing when ever he's around shadow (the younger rat) because he's scared off him and all his beating up is stressing him out. I've been told before that's separating them would be for the best but I have 3 rats (mouse is shadows brother) and I don't want one to end up alone. Shadow started biting me 3 weeks ago (not breaking the skin) and I don't know if my vet will operate on him because he's a small animal (they don't like operating on small animals in the uk) I do have someone on stand by to take him on if I can't handle him any more, so would giving him up be a good option? I honestly don't know what else to do as I've neve that this problem before.


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## Ratnamedbuddy (Jan 10, 2017)

Ratnamedbuddy said:


> So I've posted before about my younger male rat scaring my older male rat because he's very boisterous and has been ripping the fur out of my older rat causing him to bleed and creating bold spots. It had now come to my attention that buddy (the older rat) gets squeaky breathing when ever he's around shadow (the younger rat) because he's scared off him and all his beating up is stressing him out. I've been told before that's separating them would be for the best but I have 3 rats (mouse is shadows brother) and I don't want one to end up alone. Shadow started biting me 3 weeks ago (not breaking the skin) and I don't know if my vet will operate on him because he's a small animal (they don't like operating on small animals in the uk) I do have someone on stand by to take him on if I can't handle him any more, so would giving him up be a good option? I honestly don't know what else to do as I've neve that this problem before.


So a rather quick up date. Shadow just bit me and wouldn't let go. I had to separate him from mouse and buddy as he kept beating buddy up while he was drinking so he refused to drink. 
He drew blood this timen and not when I was separating them but when I was trying to stroke him after. I honestly don't know if I can handle him anymore and it makes me so sad that I actually want to cry. Mouse and buddy get along just fine and have never bitten me so I have no idea why hes like this.


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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

Shadow sounds like he is displaying hormonal aggression, keep them separated, you need to get him neutered or rehome him with someone who can. I know you're in the UK though and I've read it's hard to find a vet there that will neuter rats. But if you could get him neutered he would go back to being his old self I've had a rat like this before.


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## Ratnamedbuddy (Jan 10, 2017)

I've separated them but shadow seems very agitated. Pacing the cage etc. I've removed all access from him getting to the top part of the cage as well as blocking the hole so the others can't get to him (not like they've been trying to anyway) but I don't want shadow stressing himself out and getting ill because he's alone. 
I really don't know what to do. It will kill me to give him to my friend, even knowing she and her mum have had lots of rats in the past, I just don't want to give up but even if I did find someone to neuter him I can't afford it. I had to borrow money to take them to the vets last time because I've just lost my job. So I'm in one big mess and I have no idea how to cope with it all.


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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

is he puffed up and pacing or is his fur normal? Does he side-step towards the other rats when he goes to bully them? Did he draw blood when he bit you?


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## Ratnamedbuddy (Jan 10, 2017)

Yes he drew blood. And yeah he puffs up, uses his back legs first, sometimes goes under buddy to then wrap his legs around him to flip him, he puffs up when ever I go to stroke him and hisses while scratching at the floor of the cage. 
He only started pacing when I first separated him, he's stopped that now though. 
I think it may be my fault why he bites me to be honest. I always stop him from attacking buddy now because he's made buddy bleed etc and I've had to pull him off of buddy before, so I think he sees my hand as a threat


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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm sorry to say but there is no doubt in my mind he's being hormonal because he is showing all the signs. I know it's hard but he needs to be alone until he can get neutered or you can just keep him as a lone rat but he wont be very happy. Because if you put him back in theres a chance he will kill your older boy. I know you dont want to give up on him and I'm not telling you to but dont put your other rats at risk. You could try and get him to be comfortable with you again and just give him as much attention as possible. But in order for him to be safe with other rats he really needs a neuter. When you see blood things are not going well at all.


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## Ratnamedbuddy (Jan 10, 2017)

He's been like this for 3 weeks with me now and he's getting worse. He never use to bite me, it wasn't until I realised he started making buddy bleed that I started to move him away and put my hand inbetween them. Some time's i may have used a little more force than necessary but I was just looking out for buddy. 
Before hand he'd only nip at my skin then pull and it was like once every 3 day's and only when he was out of the cage. Now it's if I'm stroking him in or out side of the cage and if he can't beat up his brother mouse or buddy then he'll run up to me and bite me instead. This is the first time he's bitten so hard and wouldn't let go that I've had to pick him up and pull him off my hand. 
He'll happily walk on me or jump on me when I'm at the cage but it's when ever my hand goes near him that he gets funny.


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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

Well you can try to desensitize him to your hands, you might need to get some thick gloves. I never had any luck getting my hormonal boy to not attack me but they're all different and you can try this before you think about rehoming or borrowing money to neuter him. I'd give him a few days to calm down and accept he's separated from his brothers and then gauge his reaction to you, I'd wear gloves.Try showing him your hands dont mean bad things and give him treats and strokes with the gloves on. The bites and attacks just got worse and worse with my boy too until I neutered him.

Also I know you dont have a job but it wouldn't hurt to start calling around and getting quotes on a neuter so you know. You could keep him as a single rat while you save money and try to get him to trust you again.


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## Ratnamedbuddy (Jan 10, 2017)

He doesn't always try snd bite me. Just mainly when I go to stoke him. He's fine when I have him out on my shoulders but when he's on the floor in his cage and I'm stroking him he lashes out like he thinks my hand is more dominant than him


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

Some places do charge an arm and a leg per testicle. There are many rescues that get their rats neutered when they come in. Try contacting some rescues if you can find any and tell them how serious the hormonal aggression is, see if they can hook you up with a discounted neuter? I'm sure they want peoples' rats to keep their homes and he sounds like he's under a lot of stress.


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## Ratnamedbuddy (Jan 10, 2017)

I couldn't take care of him any more. He was constantly making the other 2 bleed and I can't afford to get him done so my friend who''s owned rats before took him in. He's still acting aggressive but she's planning in getting him done. I'm sad that he's gone but he was scarring my oldest so much that it was the best option for me at this current time


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## Jordibird (Jul 23, 2016)

I am really sorry to hear that Shadow had to be adopted I am in the UK and going through the same situation with 2 brothers who are more or less twins. Thank god I have a huge cage as I have had to separate them. Simon the aggressor has not bit me, but I did arm myself with a water blaster/pistol and a fish slice to break the battles up. Poor Brian used to be terrified of Simon and his attacks. Now I have 2 solitary boys and I am trying my best to give them all the attention playtime etc. Because they're both still 2 cuddle monsters albeit separately now. I will be making enquiries and frantically saving so I can get Simon neutered and hopefully get them back to being pals again. 

It's very hard and as I said I know what you went through, you honestly did all you could. 

Keep your chin up &#55357;&#56898;


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