# Pituitary tumor: do Cabergoline and Prednisone really make a difference?



## Ligeia (Nov 14, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I don't often write on this forum but I am going through a very hard time, I would love to know if any of you has had any luck with Cabergoline and Prednisone and how "bad" was the rat before you started the treatment, also how long before you saw any improvements IF any. The reason why I am asking is that I currently have a boy with an advanced case of PT, he can no longer walk or feed himself, his eyes turned brown (probably because of the tumor pushing on them) and the vet believes he might not be able to see again. He is semi unconscious most of the time just lying flat on the floor. Since I started the treatment with Cabergoline (5 days ago) his condition has stabilised, he can now breath ok, no more porphyrin, he will try to groom himself after feeding time (unsuccessfully) and I believe that on this drug there is no chance of him dying naturally which isn't necessarily something good considering that he is almost a vegetable. Now... I know that most of you will probably tell me to put him to sleep asap, the same thing happened to his brother two weeks ago and that's exactly what I did, I had him euthanised. Since then the guilt has been torturing me day and night and when Jimmy started showing the same horrible PT signs only 7 days after his brother died my heart almost stopped. I told myself I would have tried the impossible in order to keep him alive and that I wouldn't have let him down like I did with his brother. Am I doing the right thing? Probably not... so why do I keep fighting and won't let go of him? Well, even though Jimmy is almost always unconscious for some heart retching reason he still absolutely loves it when I feed him through a syringe, he will boggle his eyes out (I know that boggling can also mean stress but I assure you that in this case it is happiness as he only does it during feeding time). I feed him/ wipe him, put drops in his eyes every 2/3 hours with the hope that Cabergoline will magically give me my boy back... so, my question is: has Cabergoline ever brought your rat back to life? I heard of wonderful stories of rats regaining their abilities after two weeks on this drug but are they just story tails? As I mentioned before Jimmy has been on this drug for five days, and even though I've seen some improvement (he does no longer seem in pain and eats a lot from the syringe) he is 100% unable to walk. Would you keep going if you were me or would you give up and put him to sleep?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Hmmm I use bromocriptine not cabergoline as its a lot cheaper and easier for me to get, but these PT meds only work on the most common PT called a prolactinoma. With rats that respond sometimes you get a good response for a week and then they decline or you get a already and "miraculous" improvement. Can you give me all the symptoms your rat exhibited initially? None of mine had respiratory involvement just porphyrin from not being able to groom it off, so I am wondering if you are dealing with something different and its the pred that your rat is responding to. I have threads I can link to about my bromo/PT rats, and their progressions if you want? My best result was old Malcolm who went downhill rapidly and once given an injection of dexamethasone and started on bromo ended up almost symptom-free for 6 months until he passed at 32 months of age


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

With them being 2 so close together this could actually a case of a brain infection, there's a virus that causes encephalitis type symptoms that I've heard about, but is not common. Saying that as they are both brothers then there's also a fair chance that its just genetics.

In terms of the drug combo, I tend to find that within 3-5 days they improve a fair bit, but after that point they don't improve more, they just slowly decline (a lot slower than before), it can be weeks or months but it is inevitable. To be honest I tend to put to sleep early, as soon as they seem to have a poor quality of life even with the drugs, and once I'm sure its that as its not going to get any better for them. 

I must say the way you describe things he sounds like he has very little quality of life left and isn't responding enough to the drugs for him to get a lot better. Only you can make the call as you know him best, but I would be seriously thinking of it


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## Ligeia (Nov 14, 2015)

Hi lilspaz68 and Isamurat, thank you for your comments, I do realise that putting him to sleep might be the only answer. As today tough, Jimmy can scratch/groom himself (not wonderfully) and he can walk a couple of steps without falling over, he can also fully open his eyes during feeding time and he is able to swallow much quicker than two days ago. His quality of life isn't good enough and unless I will see a definitive improvement in the next 7 days I will then opt for euthanasia. His belly is starting to feel bloated/swollen and I am afraid I might be overfeeding him for the fear of him starving, I don't even know how long he can live without any solid foods.

To lilspaz68: Jimmy's early signs were hind leg paralysis and about 10 days before the illness fully kicked in he stopped eating with both pawns and only used one in order to grab his food, around this time his eyes went cloudy and his appetite wasn't as good. Jimmy is also taking Enrotril (the equivalent of Baytril), I will soon find out which of the two drugs between the Prednisone and the Cabergoline is working as my vet told me to slowly lower the dose of Prednisone, the reason why I tend to believe that the Cabergoline is working is that Jimmy seems a bit more co-ordinated and less "stiff", he can now hold himself up but for some reason he refuses to walk and will only attempt one or two steps. He also seems slightly more aware. 
Btw, how bad was Malcolm before he started taking the drugs? Was he still walking around? Yes, if you could give me the links I will check them out  thank you.

To Isamurat: Never heard of brain infections in rats, is this condition contagious? This is awful, Jimmy and his brother (the one that had to be PTS) were sharing the same hospital cage because about 4 weeks ago Jimmy had a tumor removed from his armpit and Tate was starting to loose his balance and therefore couldn't live in the multi-level cage... do you think Jimmy got the disease from Tate?? But now that you mentioned the infection... well... the third brother and his friend did not get affected and they lived in another cage. The vet said it must have been genetics and that it isn't too uncommon for brother rats to show signs of PT at the same time especially at the age of 2. I did think it was very strange though that the illness progressed so rapidly in both cases and so close the each others. Mmmh  I hope this isn't all my fault.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Malcolm wasn't able to walk anymore. The link to his story/treatment is below

http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25411&highlight=malcolm


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## Ligeia (Nov 14, 2015)

Thank you lilspaz68, Malcolm's condition was almost identical to Jimmy's... it's amazing how quickly the drugs worked on him! I actually have some updates on Jimmy's health, he can now walk a bit which is incredible considering that he couldn't move at all for about 4 days, unfortunately though he doesn't seem to recognise his surroundings and he just wonders around not knowing where to go. The drugs are definitely working, now it is a matter of "how" much quality of life they can actually give him back. I have to say that if he keeps improving everyday then he might even have a chance of being happy again (I doubt it but you never know), at the moment though I would describe him as an "empty shell", he is not really in there if know what I mean  sort of like a zombie, also he absolutely cannot feed himself. He does seem to recognise his brother, which is very sad because Kit still grooms him like nothing happened.


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