# Fuzzy Rat's Mammary Tumors - Need NJ Vet?



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

OK, So I know better and can still be persuaded into or dissuaded from the following bad idea:

But our big fat old shoulder rat's mammary tumors are about to become debilitating they are reaching pecan size. She's almost two years old and generally she's pretty much tired out after a life few rats can even imagine. She tries hard to play and explore, she's still a great rat, but it's getting harder daily. She's obese, a little dottery and unsure of herself and has senior moments and a small congenital bladder condition she's had from birth, but otherwise she's reasonably good health for an old rat. Surgery isn't likely to buy her a great deal of time. One local vet quoted me a price of about $600.00 to $1100.00 for the surgery. Honestly, none of their charges seem entirely unreasonable. But the Dr. basically told me that in her experience with younger rats the tumors are malignant and grow back quickly. And the typical survival time on older rats that survive the surgery is between 3 weeks and a couple of months after she operates. 

We called an "exotic animal" specialist, who won't get on the phone but it's a two hour ride to get there and it's $125.00 just to get into the door door for a consult. The first doctor told me that this is the best small animal surgeon with the best facility. They have 24 hour care staff and are likely about as good a place as we are likely to find, but... the receptionist told me that the unsuccessful surgery by a "specialist" on her six months old dog ran about $5,000.00 and ended painfully and tragically a few months later. I'm pretty sure her point was to rethink my plans before I regretted them. She kept stressing the word 'regret'.

So far the least expensive vet with rat experience (and has done some successful mammary tumor removals according the the receptionist) I've found and a reasonable reputation charges $47.00 for a visit and won't get on the phone as to the overall costs, but they operate at 3:00PM and close at 6:00PM. After that the owner's on his or her own. Emergency night care is outsourced to another evening vet at about $155.00 per visit plus whatever costs run from there... But I"ve already talked to the night vet and they will take anything in but most likely won't have anyone on staff with rat experience or small animal surgical materials on hand. They are affiliated with a more full service 24 hour vet. hospital over an hour away. Neither facility actually operates on rats. but claim they take anything in and will do what they can to keep it stable overnight.

Well, my 7 year old daughter apparently lacks my double recessive hillbilly genes and she's not on-board with what reasonably should be done soon. And I suppose, honestly, I'd like to give Fuzzy Rat a slim chance to enjoy another summer. But $800.00 for a three week survival average, with those three weeks spent in pain strikes me as such a bad plan I absolutely can't wrap my head around it. It's not just the money and it's not just the probability of actually making Fuzzy Rat's life shorter and more painful, it's a combination of both. Honestly, I can't sort out in my mind whether it's the cost or the likelihood of this ending badly quickly and painfully that's most challenging for me to get over.

I suppose if I could find a vet that could do the surgery at a more reasonable cost, with a better prognosis, I could be persuaded to do the surgery but most vets won't get on the phone and their staff won't quote any costs beyond the first office visit.

So if anyone knows a vet in NJ that has a good track record with mammary tumors on old rats, preferably one that's available for emergencies should they come up after hours, who charges a more reasonable rate please feel free to send me your recommendations.


Thanks for your thoughts, recommendations or insights.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

I'm so sorry  I don't know of any vets, let alone in NJ.

How old is she? For me 3 extra weeks of her probably being in pain from surgery isn't worth it. If it was a few more months then it would be worth it. But that depends on her health more then anything.

Any pictures of the tumor? (Sorry I have no idea how big pecans are. Are they like the size of Walnuts?). My dad knew people who had rats who got giant tumors, their rats before then had surgery for tumors and only lived for 2 extra months, so they decided to not do the surgery. Their rats lived for another 2 years without any medical issues before dying of unrelated causes.

Sometimes it depends on the rat. Hope things go well for her.


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

How can you be entirely sure she won't live longer after surgery? Some rats live up to 3 years of age don't they? I'd say for this one you're going to have to go with your gut instinct Rat Daddy, I'm sure you know what's best for her. Perhaps restrict her calorie intake to make it easier for her to get around so she's not overweight? Perhaps that would be a better solution as she has tumours. I hope for the best.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Obesity greatly increases the chance of surgery and anesthesia complications. I would not be surprised if the devastating thought of losing her during the operation occurred.

It's really up to you to determine if Fuzzy would enjoy another few weeks if she did make it through the surgery or if that time would be better spent hunting for your next shoulder rat to begin training now that it is starting to try to warm up.

What a difficult decision.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Yes, this decision absolutely s***s. Like I said I've trained multiple rats, and each and every rat could travel with us, but as I've come to learn the true shoulder rat is born and trained. Amelia taught me that lesson. She's brilliant for a rat. She learned her name, to come and up in hand in only three days after being neglected for 7 months and how to open the latch on her cage in a couple of weeks, but she absolutely hates the outdoors and really doesn't like strangers. Maybe this summer that might get better, but I'd bet against her ever getting into the same league as Fuzzy Rat.

As to picking a shoulder rat as a pup... Amelia is the only rat I ever really liked when I saw her as a pup and couldn't buy her... And I actually put Fuzzy Rat back into the feeder bin three times and if my then 5 year old daughter hadn't insisted so vehemently that she wanted only that one rat, Fuzzy Rat would have never made it home with us in the first place. I don't know if my daughter knows something I don't, but I'm guessing that it's nearly impossible to pick a shoulder rat. Sure it's easy to weed out the screwed up rats, but not nearly so easy to pick the perfect ones...

Fuzzy Rat is 23 months old, and she's an old 23 months. She's been losing speed since she was a year old. Amelia on the other hand at over a year old is still a young rat; only 1 lb, strong and agile. Amelia wound up in the feeder bin because she was most likely a breeder reject. As a classic badger blazed high white with custom fur and black eyes that flash red there's no way she and her brother (a lightning blaze dalmatian should have wound up in the feeder bin. In fact the store employees grabbed both of them out day one, at barely 3 weeks old. So likely she's the survivor of a litter that went south with megacolon but still she's also likely to have some great genes and be the product of a long term breeding project. If she could tolerate being around people, and wouldn't compress herself into a tiny ball, she could still be shown at a year old and would pass for much younger. But as a commercial feeder rat, Fuzzy was bred to grow fast and get fat. And that she did. The fat btw might go in her favor, as one vet said it was important for a rat to have lots of loose skin for suturing in order to remove so many tumors. And she's always been a rat wrapped in a rug.

Mammary tumors rarely spread to other organs, and with a young rat they justify removing, even if they come back, chances are good that a rat could survive one or more surgeries with the right vet and the right after care. Not so with an old rat.

Yes, I suppose there's a possibility that if the tumors were removed and none grew back she might regain some vitality but she was pretty worn out before the tumors. One veterinary assistant I talked to claims she had a female rat that made 7 years before dying of tumors. Three years would be a little much to hope for, even with heroic effort. If she survived the surgery, best reasonable case, she might last another summer. But the three week estimate given by the vet I talked to makes lots of sense too... a rat of Fuzzy's age, put on complete bed rest after the surgery for three weeks is very likely to just fade away. 

Still, It's hard to watch our once strong and proud and pigheaded shoulder rat that could jog over half a mile just toss herself off the table to get down to the floor as she can't climb and struggle to climb a single stair and ride around on my arm unable to turn around or climb up onto my shoulder. 

The right vet and the right price, might make an otherwise bad decision more palatable. $850.00 to most likely kill pur rat in less than three weeks. Fuzzy Rat's beat the odds before, she never should have become a pet, she should't have been able to throw up and should have died from mushroom poisoning, I can't tell you how many times I watched with abated breath for her to scurry out from under multiple kids pile ups, she's won too many close calls to count. As a young rat she would intentionally run under kids feet to trip them. If a rat ever had awesome luck, it would be Fuzzy Rat. She still struggles to keep up and be our best friend, and I usually don't bet against her, but all that said no rat cheats death forever. It's the deal we make when we own rats, best friends for a short time. Still, the right vet at the right price, and I might be able to overrule my best judgment. Even a one in a hundred chance for another 3 good months would be worth something... but not $850.00 with a vet that would give her another three weeks and has no after hours care. Fuzzy Rat actually has a better chance of surviving three weeks and being healthier for that time without the surgery.

Well maybe there's someone lurking out there that knows the right vet, lets see what fate holds in store for old Fuzzy Rat. It's still not over.


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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

I'd just go with your gut, she's getting up there in age and only you know if she could possibly handle it because she's your girl. You know her best and you know her pain tolerance levels and such.
Just because she has tumors doesn't mean she cant enjoy another summer with you, it'll just be a laid back one, you'll have to carry her instead of her being able to run around or swim. But I'm sure her just being with you even in old age would make her happy and she would enjoy it. You could carry her into the water at the beach and let her feel the warm salt water, relax on the sand with her, make a sand castle/fort for her. All kinds of stuff that doesn't require her to run or move around much.

I can say personally having had a slightly overweight boy put under to be neutered I wouldn't even risk putting one of my older boys under.
The gas caused Romeo to have breathing issues for a while and I'm sure if he wasn't on antibiotics he'd have gotten a URI.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

https://sites.google.com/site/theratwhisperersusratvetlist/new-jersey-rat-vets


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Thank you for the list of vets, I'll check into them. Plotted on a map they almost form a perfect circle around me with my house as the hub and each spoke being equidistant at about an hour to an hour and a half away. I apparently live in the great rat vet void. Most rat vets are in fancier neighborhoods where more affluent people are more likely to spend bigger bucks on smaller pets. 

We took the rats out to the big box chain pet store and the local pet shop today. Fuzzy Rat fell asleep right in front of a group of people lined up to meet her while she was being gently skritched by a young lady with lots of rat questions. To my absolute amazement Amelia popped out from under my coat and jumped down on top of Fuzzy rat who was napping in my arms and took over the meet and greet. Amelia put up with nearly an hour of actual human contact with strangers. I didn't let anyone else hold her, leaving that responsibility for Fuzzy Rat who eventually snapped back and started giving out kissies. 

I actually told everybody I had a rat under my jacket but she was too shy to come out and she really wasn't friendly to strangers, so when she did make her appearance everyone was so flattered that she liked them it gave Fuzzy Rat a welcome breather and the people a big thrill. At the second pet shop my daughter decided to put Fuzzy Rat on the floor to do a little walk at heel demo, which Fuzzy still did but unfortunately I got to clean the floor after her... The tumors are very likely pressing on her bladder, she's been indoor housebroken since she was a pup. On the other hand we usually let her go in the parking lot before going into a store, which we neglected to do today.... An odd trip, Fuzzy Rat never fell asleep in a crowd of people before and Amelia never stepped up to meet anyone voluntarily. 

The fact that there were some very charming boy rats at both stores might have attracted Amelia's attention and got her to poke her head out in the first place, but I never thought I'd see the day she'd put up with stranger's skritches, she doesn't even like it when I do it. Rats will really surprise you!

Whereas falling asleep in a crowd is a really bad sign on Fuzzy Rat's part, stepping up and meeting people was very promising for Amelia. Amelia still doesn't give kissies or offer to climb on strangers, but with her striking looks she doesn't have to put out. 

When the sales person at the big box chain pet store told me that they had one really friendly boy rat, I couldn't really help myself but ask what they were planning to do with the other rats they had too long that were already acting squirmy.... She pointed to the 25% off sticker. I suppose that's only fair, at least some newbie is going to save $3.50 on her first rat bite. On the up side, the sales person asked for and wrote down this forum's web address to give out along with the screwed up rats she sold. I guess that's progress. We might not be able to change the store policy but we may be able to save a few rats.

Thanks again.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

She's 2 years old, I think the sleeping thing is just old age. Not much to say on the Bladder, I have boys and none of them are even close to being cage broken. I always have to warn friends that they will most likely pee on them.

Sounds like Amelia is doing well, not much to say on that.

At least the people who get those rats will Hopefully come on here if they need help.

Anyways, where is her tumor at? (could you get pictures). I thought it was on her chest but now it sounds like it's by her legs.


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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

You could maybe try the medication that blocks the hormones that mammary tumors feed on. I believe i read somewhere that in some cases it actually causes them to get smaller! a cheaper option and not invasive. I know obese humans have less energy than humans of a healthy weight so apply that to rats. I say get her weight down(loose skin will still be there) and discuss that medication with your vet. I read about it on ratguide i believe. Two of my girls ended up with mammary tumors the same week.  three tumors total. Also she will die eventually facts of life. Maybe instead have ameila spayed to help prevent her from getting tumors. I wonder if maybe amelia doesn't like living in the shadow of fuzzy... Kind of like living in the shadow of your older sibling who is more sucessful than you are. If fuzzy is in the picture less maybe amelia will surprise you even more. 
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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I'll post photos later... but yes Amelia came in as Fuzzy Rat's pet rat. Amelia didn't even know her name or any commands. She sat there like a flower pot and Fuzzy was a true shoulder rat that swam in lakes, climbed trees, entertained crowds and had hundreds of friends.... The difference between the rats was like the difference between a Miss America and a pet rock. There is a certain amount of rivalry, if I pick up Fuzzy Rat first, Amelia stomps away and if I pick up Amelia first Fuzzy Rat pouts. Fuzzy Rat can't push Amelia around by any means, but she still outsmarts her at every turn. But you are also very right as Fuzzy Rat sun downs Amelia's star is on the rise. Amelia was the first rat to ever open her cage door by figuring out how the latch turned and she was the second, behind my former part wild to get to the top of my closet and she learned her name and basic commands in only two days. We haven't given up on her and she's going to the safe site again when the weather warms up for more outdoor training. If she proves me wrong and turns into a true shoulder rat, I'll have to revise my theory about shoulder rats being born as such... but I'd rather be wrong and learn better than to be wrong about thinking I'm right. Off to take photos.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

*Tumor Photos*

Well with the kind help of my daughter I've got some current Fuzzy Rat photos.There are three or four larger tumors on her side and one huge one growing fast between her hind legs. There may be a few smaller ones growing near the large ones.

Sadly, this is what has become of the amazing shoulder rat that once surveyed her world from the treetops. 

Like I said before this is a real mess.





























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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Oh wow, those look bad. I would continue looking for vets in your area that can do a tumor removal. Or just wait in till she no longer has a quality of life.

May not Work to reduce them, but may help to keep them from getting bigger, but try to give her blueberries at least once a day and add in other berries (and melons) into her diet. The anti-oxidents in them have been proven to help stop the growth of tumors (or even make them smaller), and they taste good (plus they don't have fat in them which for her sake, that's probably a good thing).

Speaking of her being over weight. They could be fatty tumors, which is Good in that they are Benign and typically easy to remove and don't have a high chance of returning from what I know. (I know 99.99% that they can Not be malignant though)

As you've said, it's better to learn from being wrong then to not learn from thinking your right...that didn't make much sense. Read a thing today that said "Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from poor judgment". It was on a livestock forum if that helps explain why it was on there. (ok that had nothing to do with this, your thing just reminded me of that quote and I felt like sharing).


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I know it doesn't make much sense but I actually like being proved wrong... it means I learned something. For 30 years I believed my mom's claim that all animals know what they can and can't eat... one mushroom later and I knew better... I read that rats couldn't throw up, and one pile of puke on the back car floor cleaned up and I learned again. I'm optimistically thinking that Fuzzy Rat's life is down to weeks... there's two ways I can be wrong, one would make my daughter and me very happy.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I've been giving Fuzzy Rat Resveritrol and IP6 The resveritrol really perked her up but the IP6 didn't reduce the tumors. Maybe they slowed the tumor growth? Or maybe the resveritrol has just prolonged her life and made the a problem she wouldn't have lived long enough to have. 

Resveritrol has shown to extend the life of short lived vertibrates on an average of 50%. A South African friend who provided the animals (Nothobranchius Foershi) for the Italian experiments sent us the actual study results. One specimen actually lived double the average control animal's life span. And it looks like it works on rats... but just like the human tumor studies on resveritrol it only has a short term effectiveness. It controlled the tumor growth for about two months, just like in the lab studies then... well you can see for yourself.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

man I am in tears! I am such a fan of fuzzy rat- she is a legendary celebrity of shoulder rats  . I believe that we never really lose what we love... And she is clearly loved. Surgeries can be painful... And as you said, not extend their life span. Although its probably a pain for her to move around, if she's happy.... Perhaps the tumors aren't bothering her?..maybe you should just let her live life naturally ..... Something came to mind though....what ever became of essiac tea? It used to be used to slow cancer progression..... But could it be used in rats? 


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Rats still cannot vomit, but they CAN regurgitate. Two very different things. http://www.ratbehavior.org/vomit.htm#Regurgitation

Anyway, is there any chance to get your hands on some turkey tail mushroom extract?


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

Also, what was the dose of resveritrol?  I'm gunna start my babies on it!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

As to the exact dose used on the Nothobronchius, I know I have it somewhere... just not where But there has been a recent study done on rats where rats were given 1000 times the normal human dosage with no ill effects, so I doubt it matters too much. I just break up a capsule (not the liquid jell-cap) I use the type with the powdered contents and take a teaspoon tip and mash it into bananas or mix it into a drop of Hershey's syrup. I figure it's more than a human is likely to consume and less than the 1000 times overdose. It's bitter and rats don't like it.

___________________________________________

I was driving when the smell permeated my car... it was just like the smell associated with the human variety of boomeranging food... And I found it in a "neat" pile on the rear floor. Regurgitate or vomit... I never considered the difference.

I'll look into turkey tail mushrooms and essiac tea. Have you actually seen either of these work on rats or humans?

_______________________________________________

Fuzzy Rat is currently rearranging my desk and tearing up a roll of toilet paper. She asked me to open the third floor window and I let her hang her head out for a while, she likes that. Although she had the good sense to come in from the cold quickly Amelia didn't and now I'm cold too. 

Fuzzy Rat struggles every day to be the family pet and best friend she always was. She still patrols my office even if she has to throw herself off my desk to get to the floor. It's apparently her job to patrol the floor and pile and shred papers behind my computer stand. And when it gets too much she just flops down and turns into a big squishy blob and dozes off or stands on my feet for up on hand and naps on me. 


It's hard on my daughter, trying to prepare her for the inevitable. She's having trouble accepting Fuzzy Rat for the way she is rather than the way she was. She doesn't know whether to play with her and maybe hurt her of try to distance herself from Fuzzy Rat and prepare for the upcoming grief. Either way Fuzzy Rat is getting played with less... and she doesn't seem to understand it. It's good she sleeps a lot. 

My daughter asks me every couple of hours when we are going to the vet... I think down deep she still believes that Fuzzy Rat can be fixed up like new... it hurts to be a dad when I really have to stress that one way or another Fuzzy Rat is moving towards the rainbow bridge. Now that you've seen the photos you know surgery is a long shot... and after being slit open from ear to tail, and half way back up the other side, her prognosis is not good at her age and in her condition. That's a big shock for any animal to take. And the tumors are growing faster now.

Well I'll look into the things you recommended and I'll keep looking for a vet. It's hard to believe the life she's had, and it's harder to believe that it might be almost over. 

"Love hard, live fast and die young" that's the deal with rats. It's just a little hard to remember that's the bargain we all strike when we adopt our best furry little friends. 

I'm going to get me some rattie huggles and kissies right now while the getting's still good.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

As hard as it will be for your daughter, maybe you can try explaining to her honestly that the surgery will hurt fuzzy rat a lot, and it won't make her live longer... She'd be happier having the tumors and passing more comfortably. 

For essiac, to be honest, it was a really popular item, but I can't remember the research behind it...  sorry... Ohhh, another one was black seed capsules....ip6 was up there too, although you mentioned it didn't help much... 

Another is soy isoflavones and just whole soy (for breast, uterine, ovarian, etc)... But the isoflavones where supposedly the more concentrated receptor binding substance that they isolated ( with natural meds, its usually hard to tell what is the active ingredient, as it could be several compounds synergistically working...) 


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Well, it looks like Fuzzy Rat is going for her first vet visit ever this Friday. I haven't a clue what to expect or if I should take Amelia along for moral support. Naturally, I'm taking my daughter, like any dad... I feed the rats, I clean the cage, I make sure they get their out of cage play time, my daughter even tosses the rats into my shower for me to wash them. But do you think Fuzzy Rat is my rat? Nooooo, oh no... My daughter walks in and Fuzzy weebles away from me like I'm a naked lollipop stick. So as you can tell from the photos about Fuzzy Rat will let my daughter do anything with her without resistance, she's best to manager her at the vets.

So... it's $47.00 for the visit... cash only. No quote regarding surgery costs and the vets won't get on the phone. They have two vets that operate on rats and claim to have rat experience. They operate at 1 to 3 pm 3 days per week. They close at 6:30PM and they do take emergencies. They have an emergency call number until 8:00PM. They have a covering vet for evenings but the cost is outrageous. They are open Saturdays and closed Sundays.

The place charges about half as much as the other rat vets for the first visit, which I'm hoping translates into a lower cost surgery if that's the way to go. It's not the most optimal arrangement, but given the low likelihood of any real success, at a sane price point it might give the old girl a chance at another summer.

While I'm there, can anyone think of the right questions I should be asking?


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

It depends on Amelia as to whether or not to take her. Does she make Fuzzy more comfortable, or would that strange place make Amelia anxious, which would in turn make Fuzzy more uncomfortable? It's your call.

Did you manage to find one of the vets from the list I gave, or elsewhere?

I'm anxious to see how this goes. Keep us updated.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Actually, the vet that got the nod only charges $47.00 for a first rat visit.. I've only talked to the staff and they claim they have two vets that do rat surgeries. 

Sadly, with everything else being a toss up, it's coming down to cost. All of the research I've done says that Fuzzy Rat is likely to live longer without surgery, but her quality of life will be increasingly impaired. 

I'll go th4 $47.00 to get a professional opinion, and perhaps a reasonable amount to give Fuzzy an outside chance at another summer in the sun. She's a very special animal and has given our family her very very best always and that deserves some reward... 

Still, $600.00 to $1200.00 for a very likely three weeks of suffering, is too little time for too much money with too small a chance of success. If everything else balances evenly cost becomes a factor, and honestly I'm stretching way beyond reason to consider the surgery in the first place... money really isn't the deciding factor, but $1200.00 would pretty much seal the decision given all of the other negatives. If we were talking three years not three weeks, the money wouldn't come into play at all. If it weren't for the resveritrol Fuzzy might have died of old age already. She was dragging before the tumors. But if she survives the surgery and we can get her outdoors again an she loses some weight and if the tumors don't grow right back.... well then it might be worth it to her and to us.... Lots of ifs. But I'll go the $47.00 on Friday to get another opinion and maybe a better surgical option. That's the least I can do.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

You're absolutely right. Lots of ifs here. I hope that the vet can help sort out some pros and cons. Poor FR.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Last summer a young fellow came running up to us dragging his poor hapless girlfriend in tow behind him. We were following Fuzzy Rat back to the car. When they reached us breathless he pointed down to the ground where Fuzzy Rat was walking and exclaimed... "You see, I haven't lost my mind. There really is a Fuzzy Rat!" 

Honestly, I expected so little from a pet rat when we bought her. I might have been satisfied with a cheap hamster that survived a week being roughly handled by a 5 year old. That would have gotten my wife off my back about the whole "our daughter needs a real pet" thing... I was convinced my daughter was too young for a "real" pet. And at the time a feeder rat just seemed like the most "expendable" creature in the store. But no! Fuzzy Rat wasn't going to let that happen to her. She set out on day one to prove she was just as good as any dog. It was like she was on a mission to not be a "disposable pet". She would patiently repeat the same behavior or keep trying different behaviors until even I could see she was trying to communicate with us and that somewhere in that tiny head there was real thought happening and a tiny little brain was working overtime to comprehend what we were trying to communicate to her.... And after a couple of months, my wife who absolutely hates rats remarked, after watching our daughter snuggling with her rat... "I think that rat actually loves our daughter." Better she actually formed the words than me I thought, as I wasn't sure if I was actually being objective by that time. 

Just about everything I know about rats, even the theory behind immersion training was taught to me by one silly little rat that simply would not be a "small" animal or a pocket pet.

After about a month with us, someone asked how our rat was doing, not thinking I flatly replied... "She's exceeding expectations". Funny how I can still recall that offhand remark, it sounds so dry now... And "she exceeded expectations" would make for a shabby epitaph. But no matter how high we set the bar, she never let us down. I've come to find out that most rats are special in their own way, but with what she taught me and likely what I've been able to pass on to the community here I believe she's made at least a small difference in the lives of more than a few other rats and their humans. She's impressed and amused so many people and she's been so good, the world is just a little bit better for her being with us. I suppose that's true of a lot of animals, but it's earned her another chance to beat the odds in my book. I'm not likely to turn stupid and inflict 3 weeks of slow death on her for $1200.00, but I'm open to a reasonable chance of a good outcome if the vet thinks it's objectively doable at a reasonable cost. When I see the looks on my friends faces when I mention rat surgery, I see myself a couple of years ago, and I can see just how much a single rat that absolutely refused to be a disposable anything changed my family and me.

As a dinosaur with the double recessive hillbilly gene set that lived on a farm and knows all about what happens to all old animals and even people, that's as far as Fuzzy Rat has dragged me... so we hope and see.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Actually the short hand for Fuzzy Rat is "FB" not "FR"... I think it came from "Fuzz Buster", when she was only a stubborn and determined little ball of fluff. She absolutely refuses to respond to "FB" but she knows we're talking to her... In some ways she's a primadonna. Basically she'll actually look up at you like "You know my name, if you want me to listen use it." It's one of her more amusing quirks. Amelia is actually starting wait for me to call her Amelia Rat before she comes too, all I need is another girl with an attitude in my household. It's hard being the only guy.


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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

http://ratfanclub.org/tamox.html

I mentioned this earlier as a possible non invasive treatment for fuzzy rat. Couldn't remember the name but here it is. About half way down it talks about a rat named pepper whose tumor decreased almost half the size. Look into it. 

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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

We're back from the vet's... good news and bad. Under a very bright light, the vet thinks he sees pus nodules in at least one of the "tumors/growths" Soooo Fuzzy Rat may have an unusual bacterial infection rather than mammary tumors. 

Her lungs are clear, heart good, lymph nodes/glands are not swollen and she has no internal tumors or growths. 

So we have two choices.... Either Fuzzy has an bacterial infection or she has a malignant inoperable cancer.

So the doctor put her on .5 cc amoxi-drop (.25 mg of Amoxicillin per dose) for 14 days and soft bedding to prevent any injury to her growths. He claims if it's an infection, the medication works and she recovers, she could be on track for a 4 year lifespan... otherwise it's pretty much all over.... 

Hows that for good news and bad news? 

Still a major craps shoot, but I've learned never to bet against Fuzzy Rat.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Who knows, it could work.

Just for extra precaution, make sure there are hammocks between every level Just in case.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Unfortunately the cage design doesn't allow for hammocks. It took over a year and a half to wedge a "real" rat cage into the house disguised as a Christmas present for my daughter. We had to go for a tall narrow design with terraces and wide wavy ramps for Fuzzy to weeble up on. And I badly overpaid for a lesser cage I could shoehorn into tight quarters. The parameters were that the cage had to go anywhere my wife wouldn't see it if she sat down to rest... so we had to calculate a place out of sight of any chair in the house. That left us will a very small usable footprint as nearly every room we have has a chair in it.

I realize it doesn't make a lot of sense, but living with a rat phobic isn't easy. And with two rats already in the house you would think a cage would seem like a good idea... But strangely cage and cage location was a bigger battle than the rats themselves. The rats don't seem to like the recycled paper much and are keeping to the shelves, but if that's what the vet wants to reduce the risk of splinters in the soft growths... at this point, I'll try anything.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

How's she doing???? Seen any reduction in the growths/abscesses? 


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I so want to say yes the growths are getting smaller or softer, but objectively I can't really say. Yesterday she clawed herself up from my arms up onto my shoulders where she used to ride and she held on pretty well. She seemed self-satisfied with the accomplishment. And she's being much more snugly than she has been lately. She also seems to be awake more. But that's all pretty subjective.

As she's on antibiotics and it's still pretty cold outside we took Amelia to the park and left Fuzzy Rat home, that's the first time. She sniffed Amelia and realized she had been left behind and spent the rest of the day trying to make nice and get picked up. I'm pretty sure sick rats see getting left behind by their pack as a bad sign. So her increased activity level and snuggling might just be her trying to prove she can still keep up. Poor Amelia spent most of her time outdoors trying to say under my coat, but we got her to run a rail fence and spend a few minutes on the ground and she even got grabbed by a stranger and snuggled. Everyone simply needs to cuddle Amelia, and for a rat that doesn't really appreciate affection it's hard to play nice, but she did and she roamed about on the young lady that swiped her from me three times and rode on her shoulder under her hair for a while before I recalled her. 

It was actually kind of funny when the young lady plucked Amelia from my arms, she snuggled her and kissed her and said "So this is a mouse." I said "Well, actually she's a rat." and the poor girl nearly passed out... "This is a rat? I'm holding a rat? Oh my G*D I'm holding a RAT!" So I cut her off by telling her that Amelia wasn't a "real" rat and that they are just closely related. The girls sister refused to hold Amelia saying "I'm not telling Momma that I was holding a rat." It was actually quite funny... But after I explained that Amelia wasn't a "rat" rat, the panicked young lady took her from me twice more and couldn't get enough of holding her. She even inquired about getting one of her own. 

Fuzzy Rat loves meeting strangers, but most ask what she is or recognize the tell tail signs... whiskers, beady eyes, short fur and long tail often give it away, and they ask questions like "Does she bite?" before risking holding her. With Amelia it's just snatch and grab. I'm really not used to that reaction yet. Maybe it's because everyone always grabbed her that she's skeptical about strangers. In any event she kept it together and didn't panic. She hated being on the ground, refused to climb a tree and clearly didn't appreciate following us on the rail fence... but she came when called and didn't panic when grabbed by a stranger... so that's half the battle. Fuzzy Rat was always completely at home outdoors since she was three weeks old, so I don't know if Amelia is going to get over her agoraphobia. She's gone from a flower pot to a pushy little monster indoors So who knows? Fuzzy Rat has always been our family dog. If Fuzzy Rat doesn't recover, Amelia has some pretty big shoes to fill. Being Fuzzy Rat's pet rat was easy compared to being a true shoulder rat. 

Fuzzy Rat doesn't usually groom other rats, especially on the kitchen table, but she gave Amelia a little grooming when we got back, sort of like saying "good job" And Amelia immediately pushed Fuzzy Rat on her back and started grooming her belly like saying "don't even think about it, it's your job and you can keep it." Then they just sat side by side a few minutes surveying the kitchen together like experienced combat survivors after a battle. 

So we give Fuzzy Rat her meds and hope for the best. I suppose there are going to be more Amelia stories in the future, but life will never be the same around here without Fuzzy Rat. Amelia is a fine rat, but Fuzzy Rat is still our family dog.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

What a lovely story! Fuzzy rat, good luck in your recovery! 


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