# My RatNecklaceHammockThingy idea for Immersion/Shoulder training... Need feedback ;)



## RattyDaddy (Dec 8, 2013)

Hey guys  The purpose of this thread is just for me to share an idea that I've implemented which seemed to work well for my young rats, and to get feedback from y'all on your experiences, how this idea/method could be improved upon, etc.

I got my boys when they were about 5.5 weeks old. I spent as much time as I could "immersing" them, and things went well. However, I just couldn't seem to devote as much time developing our bond as I wanted to due to college classes, work, family, etc. I got to thinking that there had to be a better way to spend more time with them, but still be able to do work on the computer, chores around the house, etc. So, after brainstorming a little, I decided to simply take an old towel and turn it into a "neck-hammock" about 2 weeks after I got them. I tied opposing ends of it together and it makes the perfect rattie version of those baby carriers you see women wearing around  So yeah, now I can wear my rat-necklace around and have them with me any time I want! The best part is, my ratboys absolutely love it! It has become a second home for them away from their cage.

I believe that this simple idea has helped dramatically in strengthening the alpha-sub bond between us as they've grown, since it's allowed me to spend exponentially more time with them than if they had to sit in their cage and wait for "playtime" every day. I also believe that it is a good baby-step introductory tool to becoming shoulder rats. They get exposed to much more of our house, other people, and the outside world (i.e. they run errands in the car with me all the time) with this method. It's also been a great tool in introducing them to new people and places. I usually just sit down and let them come out whenever their curiosity overtakes them (as it always does), and they always know they can scurry back over to me and down into their hammock if they get spooked. If nothing else, it has definitely illustrated to me that one of my boys has much more true shoulder rat potential than the other: Stewie loves to always have his head poked out & observing, while his rotund brother Frosty is perfectly content to be a lazy ball of ratmeat asleep in the bottom of the hammock usually. And as they age, I will slowly wean them (or whoever's ready) out of the towel and onto my shoulder full-time.

So, who else has tried something like this? (I'm certainly not pretentious enough to believe that I've invented anything here!) What was it like and how did you do it? The positive results I've had have been clearly noticeable and very rewarding. My only regret is that I didn't grab the towel and start it with them sooner! If you've never tried it, I'd highly recommend this technique for new rats. It doesn't get much simpler and cheaper than this!


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

There are bonding pouches. Most of us use hoodies (turned around, the hood can be right there; the pockets are nice too). 


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## PaigeRose (Apr 12, 2013)

I was actually thinking about sewing something like this. I have a ton of infinite scarves, some more thick than others. If they were more like a cowl neck scarf, they would be perfect for rattie time!


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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

I absolutely love doing this with my rats. 

When I first got them I hadn't had any rats before and I didn't think i could get a carrier that they would all fit in and not squeeze out of (hehe) 

So I ripped up an old shirt and made a pouch. They loved it! Whenever I went to the pet store they went and could either interact with people or hide away.

The only problem I found was if they were in there too long they would pee and it wasn't waterproof. 

If anyone has any tips of this I would be really excited to hear. 

Thanks 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Dan, id get puppy pads. Cut them into squares and line your pouch with them. Once soiled, change it. For about five bucks you could probably have enough for a year!


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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

Thanks Nanashi7! 

I will have to search the pet stores as I am in the UK  x


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Actually when I was writing immersion, I gave some thought to the bonding pouch idea as being a nice crossover from the immersion area into the rest of the house. I didn't omit it for any reason, just didn't include it. And it might make a nice addition to the thread if you want to add it... I never worked with a bonding pouch, so I won't presume to add any personal experiences...

And yes bonding pouches have been around for a while as have hoodies and of course those semi-ubiquitous boobs (or rather cleavage) many rats prefer to be carried in. More recently the rat doughnut has been added, which is a cloth doughnut that wraps around the neck and rats hide inside and poke their heads out of. 

To be honest not all shoulder rats prefer to be up on shoulder, some prefer to be under your coat, other's on your arm and some up your sleeve head hanging out by your wrist. "Shoulder rat or true shoulder rat is really more of a description of how competent a rat is rather than a rat that likes to ride only on someone's shoulder. It's the term that defined itself for want of a better term.
Sort of like American Football, where some might argue that soccer might be better called football...

There is one serious problem with hoodies, pouches, doughnuts and dare I say it... _boobs_? (and no.. I never thought I'd write a single sentence with both the words "boobs" and "serious problem" in it... I've double checked the syntax and I'm sure I'm right... but it still reads wrong somehow) In any event rats have a way of poking their heads out at inopportune times and if you are standing in line next to a rat phobic and your rat pops up from a pouch, a doughnut a hoodie, under your jacket or your bra (if you are so inclined or endowed) the rat phobic is going to freak out and a chain reaction of bad things is going to happen.

When traveling with shoulder rats I follow the 15 foot rule. I want everyone to see my rat from at least 15 feet away. This gives rat phobics time to move away and not freak out, scream or pass out. I like my rats on shoulder or out in the open on my arms because I don't want them to ever pop up next to someone. If a single customer in the store starts screaming or passes out, you will be banned from that store forever and you might wind up explaining your rat to the cops or local health department.

In our extensive travels we have only ran into a very few rat phobics, but they are out there. They don't panic if you are 5 meters away from them, but as you get closer they start shaking all over and can behave completely irrationally when you get too close. And yes, we had a few phobics that wanted to get over their phobia try to get closer to Fuzzy Rat and by one foot away one young lady was frozen to stone crying in public despite her best efforts. Other's couldn't get that close and only one succeeded at a single quick touch and then she ran off dancing around the store most proud of her achievement... but I still wouldn't dare pop a rat out of a bag next to her.

So for indoor use at home pouches etc. are perfectly fine... but out in public be very aware that phobics are out there and you won't realize you have found one until it is too late! Always follow the 15 foot rule if you want to stay out of trouble. Don't be afraid to expose your rat.


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## RattyDaddy (Dec 8, 2013)

This is a perfectly valid point, for sure. I usually get asked "what's in the towel" - as it's pretty conspicuous - but I could see how some people might cause trouble.

I definitely plan on phasing out the towel over the coming months, mainly because I want to continue to educate my rats. I view the towel/doughnut/boobs idea (lol) as a transitioning tool into getting my youngins ready to handle the world from my shoulder.

Rat Daddy, can you think of any reasons why, from the rats' developmental standpoint, that carrying them around (while they're young) in the towel could teach them bad habits or other "undesirable lessons"?? I obviously don't wanna be doing anything that's gonna work against me later.

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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

My rats know if they ask to ride me, I get giddy and give them a ride. It is sorta the after effect of teaching them on shoulder. This means at any given time (walking, cleaning, dressing, standing) the rats will jump (or rather, climb) up on me which is a bit inconvenient. My proficient girl even will start barking directions at me (rather, indicating forcefully that she wants this or that done). Nothing bad (unless you think being swarmed randomly by rats can be dangerous as I do) but inconvenient. 


I can also see an issue in them being overtly comfortable with you and unable to handle the phase out. 


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

No, I honestly don't see any problem with your towel. Max prefers to ride under my coat at times especially in winter. I didn't include pouch information because I never used one, not because I felt there was anything wrong with it.

I wrote a thread on shoulder rats and all outdoor activities, it would be well worth your read, it covers most of the mistakes I made and few other people made worth avoiding. And some good techniques for keeping your rats safe(r).

The single most important advise I can give anyone regarding shoulder rat training is to do it at a safe site. Things will go wrong and as a new trainer you will be blindsided! I promise you that not only are things going to go wrong, they will go sideways so fast that you won't have time to think about what you should do next. The safe site is where you learn if your rats come back to you or if they panic and you learn to scan the sky and the shrubs for predictors, which hopefully aren't really there... but you practice your head swivel. You practice your commands, and learn which ones and when they will work. And you screw up... a lot. But because you are at a safe site there aren't any dire consequences. The safe site is also where you teach your rats to go potty on the ground and not on your shoulder.

After you leave your safe site, you will still be surprised or even horrified occasionally. Someone actually left their boy rat outside and it was killed by a wild male rat... I have girls so I have to worry about my girls chasing wild guys for other reasons, but I never even thought about the special risks male rats face. There are surprises in store for you, you won't learn at the safe site but they are many time more manageable if you aren't struggling with the basics and your rat can be relied upon not to panic or run away and not come back. And just as importantly you will know which rat can be worked with and relied upon and which should not be taken out into traffic.

True shoulder rats are rare because they need to have the right temperament. And good trainers and handlers are rare because there is such a steep learning curve. Pretty much you screw up once and you kill or lose your rat, which makes it a mistake that's hard to come back from. So although you have to take chances, practice somewhere safe and manage as many risks as you can. For example I never even thought about owls until there was on screeching right over my head because my very smart and alert shoulder rat wouldn't get off of me. When I put a rat down to do a demonstration, I want to have better than even odds that she isn't going to run away and not come back, and if she is going somewhere, I want to be pretty certain I know exactly where she's likely to run to or explore. That only comes with experience and practice.

Lastly, always remember car doors (actually all doors) kill rats... never close your car door until your rats are accounted for and under control. 

Best luck.


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## RattyDaddy (Dec 8, 2013)

Yep, I read your outdoor rat postings in that thread. Thanks for all the info and great stories as usual!!

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## Maddie (Jan 13, 2014)

I actually think your towel idea sounds like a neat one. I've been using my hoodies or robe (I use it more as a coat to take the dogs out at night while in my pjs than as a bath robe item). They seem to love hiding in it and sleeping in my sleeve is Rikki's favorite activity while Ty sits in the hood or behind the collar and enjoys the view. I think switching to something more specific though and smaller would be neat when the weather warms up. Everyone mentioning scarves made me laugh a bit. I make scarves and mostly the big fleece ones with hand pockets in them. I could put a rat on each side!


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## RattyDaddy (Dec 8, 2013)

Yep, my boys get visually excited when I bring out the towelratnecklacethingy. They start scurrying around their cage and literally start bouncing off the walls! I open their door, say "nest," and they can't get in fast enough (earning them a coveted cheese-flavored Yogie of course lol)!

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## Maddie (Jan 13, 2014)

Does anyone have a picture of the neck donut mentioned? I need to sit and sew something new for my boys to sit in on me this weekend. They got a little over excited the other day and nibbled on my shirt inside my hoodie. They did get in trouble, but gonna switch up the way they sit on me for a while so shirt chewing where I don't notice it isn't an option. >_>

Lol, I might try using a scarf for a bit. I'll need to make modifications and probably add more pockets. It will be one weird looking scarf!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

There is a lady in the Midwest that makes and sells the doughnuts, she has a web site with photos. Links were posted here a few months ago, you might be able to search it... but it was just a two layer doughnut that went around your neck, open in the middle and closed on the outside. It was warm and did come in designer colors though. Think of a tire off a rim and insert your rats where the air should go. Should be easy to make if you have the skills.


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## Maddie (Jan 13, 2014)

Lol thanks! I'll do a quick search. I don't tend to toot my own horn very often but sewing is one of the few skills I do possess. I'm sure after finding a picture I can make my own pattern. Pattern making is my weakness but once I have that figured out I'm usually set.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I think all you will need is a piece of string a chalk market and a thumbtack. Make the first circle so the thing goes over your head then the second circle farther out figuring how much room your rats will need and cut out two doughnuts and sew them together. You might want to sew a string into the seam of the inside of the doughnuts so the thing keeps it's shape.

Best luck.


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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

Maddie said:


> Does anyone have a picture of the neck donut mentioned? I need to sit and sew something new for my boys to sit in on me this weekend. They got a little over excited the other day and nibbled on my shirt inside my hoodie. They did get in trouble, but gonna switch up the way they sit on me for a while so shirt chewing where I don't notice it isn't an option. >_>
> 
> Lol, I might try using a scarf for a bit. I'll need to make modifications and probably add more pockets. It will be one weird looking scarf!


I've been trying to find a picture but there deep in my computer somewhere. However I found this. 

Before I lost my Totoro he ALWAYS chose my bra over the pouch and this is one hot summers day when his brother joined in too. 









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## Maddie (Jan 13, 2014)

Rat Daddy said:


> I think all you will need is a piece of string a chalk market and a thumbtack. Make the first circle so the thing goes over your head then the second circle farther out figuring how much room your rats will need and cut out two doughnuts and sew them together. You might want to sew a string into the seam of the inside of the doughnuts so the thing keeps it's shape.Best luck.


A string probably won't be necessary I can do a few things to let it keep a good shape. I think I'm going to try a scarf first and just design it to hold my rats. Lmao I'm sure it will look a bit odd.Dan: Ty is all about hiding in my bra. When we have playtime he will hide in it then pop out an go flying across the room. I told him hiding food in there was a bad idea, but lol sneaky little devil keeps doing it. I'm trying to discourage them from going in there at the moment just because they are nibbling at my clothes. I'm having a hard time noticing if they are to even get onto them. I would just be devistated if they chewed up my bras. It's so hard to find a good one.


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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

Maddie said:


> A string probably won't be necessary I can do a few things to let it keep a good shape. I think I'm going to try a scarf first and just design it to hold my rats. Lmao I'm sure it will look a bit odd.Dan: Ty is all about hiding in my bra. When we have playtime he will hide in it then pop out an go flying across the room. I told him hiding food in there was a bad idea, but lol sneaky little devil keeps doing it. I'm trying to discourage them from going in there at the moment just because they are nibbling at my clothes. I'm having a hard time noticing if they are to even get onto them. I would just be devistated if they chewed up my bras. It's so hard to find a good one.


Oh that's so funny!! 

Mine never chew my bra. However the storing food thing can be a problem!! Oh bless you. A scarf may be your best bet to discourage their bra tendencies!! ^^


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## RattyDaddy (Dec 8, 2013)

RatloverDan said:


> I've been trying to find a picture but there deep in my computer somewhere. However I found this.
> 
> Before I lost my Totoro he ALWAYS chose my bra over the pouch and this is one hot summers day when his brother joined in too.
> View attachment 113697
> ...


How can anyone look at this and say that rats AREN'T brilliant?!!?  Aaaaand I'm also guessing Dan isn't your actual name? LOL

But yeah, the towel I tied together functions the exact same way as this doughnut thing, from what you guys are describing. It makes a pouch for them to sit in, and ties together behind my neck. I just slip it on and off over my head. A fancy fleece one would be pretty cool tho...

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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

So I'm guessing Victoria's secret isn't that she has rats down her shirt? And the local lingerie store doesn't fit bras that accommodate a nice pair of rodents? And I now find out edible that underwear isn't for rats either? 

I'm so disillusioned... What is this world coming to?

And now rats everywhere will have to choose between doughnuts and boobs.... How will they possibly ever decide when humans males can't even do it?


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## Sylver (Sep 5, 2013)

I used to have a necklace pouch for my mice, who would accompany me just about everywhere in it. Have not trid it with rats, but I imagine that it wouldn't be too much different. My rats would have liked to come out and explore more than my mice did, they liked to hide in the pouch most of the time, and come out for a bite of whatever I was eating once in awhile.


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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

RattyDaddy said:


> How can anyone look at this and say that rats AREN'T brilliant?!!?  Aaaaand I'm also guessing Dan isn't your actual name? LOL
> 
> But yeah, the towel I tied together functions the exact same way as this doughnut thing, from what you guys are describing. It makes a pouch for them to sit in, and ties together behind my neck. I just slip it on and off over my head. A fancy fleece one would be pretty cool tho...
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Haha!! My name is Dan. ( Danielle) I've been called Dan for the past 10 years so it's normal to me!! 

I think they like it so much because it's warm. You can take them anywhere. 
We nicknamed them 'booby rats' everyone in our street knew them. 

However I don't recommend that you guys out there try bras!! Might not get the right reaction. 

It's quite funny in the UK rats are never really considered pets. I was outside a shop waiting for my fiancé to return. And there were two guys 'checking me out' until they saw Totoro  
Wish I had a camera!! 

Wanted to share this with you I found on another thread. 

This website the very last pages make a bonding pouch!! 

http://www.ratropolis.com/Rat Tutor... and Accessories - Small File Size.pdf#page60




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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

Totoro got confused one day. 








He never forgave my other half for not having a bra!! 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I've always noticed my rats seem to prefer snuggling in /my/ hoodie as opposed to my male friends. I never contributed it to our inherent shelf, so to speak. 

I do try to limit it as having scratches and welts all over your chest are hard to explain. 


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## RattyDaddy (Dec 8, 2013)

LOL this thread has become comedy gold... all thanks to rats... who'd have thunk?

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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

nanashi7 said:


> I've always noticed my rats seem to prefer snuggling in /my/ hoodie as opposed to my male friends. I never contributed it to our inherent shelf, so to speak.
> 
> I do try to limit it as having scratches and welts all over your chest are hard to explain.
> 
> ...


Inherent shelf!! I LOVE it!! 

Yeah the scratches aren't the best. I try to trim their nails often. Men seem to stay away when they see the scratches  


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Girls, 

for the scratches... you needn't tell anyone about your rats... Just tell them you have a blind paramour that brings you roses every day.

If it's a guy you might be interested in, who asks about the scratches and your paramour... just explain it hurts sometimes, but it isn't serious respectively...

If he's good with that, he'll likely be even better with the "baby rattie boobie bonding boo boos" explanation.

Inherent Shelf? I always figured rats were very smart and most got here by ship so after the "Titanic" incident they just like to keep close to the flotation gear.


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## RattyDaddy (Dec 8, 2013)

Rat Daddy said:


> Inherent Shelf? I always figured rats were very smart and most got here by ship so after the "Titanic" incident they just like to keep close to the flotation gear.


Rofl, they're so **** smart!!

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## tigerstripesk8 (Jan 24, 2014)

Heh, the boob scratches aren't that bad, my issue is back of the hands, because I get really dry skin in the cold months. I've been good about wearing gloves whenever I go out, ao my hands look more like skn than red crocodile hide, but the scratches still look terrifying to people who see me without my gloves.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

My rats seem to find the extra mass jutting from my chest is like a platform, to be stood on to reach forward more than standing on shoulder. I doubt that was the intended use of them, so it is a shelf to hold spare rats and help them achieve more mischief. 


I'm allergic to rats, so my scratches look like lashes. 


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## RattyDaddy (Dec 8, 2013)

So the logical conclusion here is that busty girls can have more rats? Hahaha

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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Scientifically postulating, from the view point of someone with an optimal view of his own feet... could it not be possible that there might actually be less room for rats in an already overstuffed sweater?

My wife is rat phobic, so I don't have the means to experiment.


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## Maddie (Jan 13, 2014)

Rat Daddy said:


> Scientifically postulating, from the view point of someone with an optimal view of his own feet... could it not be possible that there might actually be less room for rats in an already overstuffed sweater?My wife is rat phobic, so I don't have the means to experiment.


Less room or telling them "no" seems to mean automatically try harder. That could be applied to lots of situations though an not just rats. Lmao


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

As socially proper as possible, I would like to state for the record that my sweaters may be overstuffed but I have 11 rats and have found my shelf aids in the event all wish for a ride at once; it may be that females just don't have the shoulder room. I can fit five or six on my shoulders at a time (usually with one or two tottering and only if they stand still and stop tryin to wrestle), another three or four use my extension to ride the front, with the rest either in my hands or on my head (usually in a state of flux between the two. )

I've been meaning to take a family photo but first convincing someone to sit while you hold eleven rats and then take a picture is hard; as well as not looking tortured with twenty two paws with claws. Nevermind trying to do it on a day everyone feels like cooperating. I can't even get a in-cage shot
View attachment 113753
8/11 is our best score and with no small part of bribery by me. 


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## RattyDaddy (Dec 8, 2013)

Maddie said:


> Less room or telling them "no" seems to mean automatically try harder. That could be applied to lots of situations though an not just rats. Lmao


Hahaha soooo true! Guilty as charged 

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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Just double checking the math above... 11 rats would be 44 paws with claws or have we gotten to the point of only counting in sets of two?

And what's not socially proper about some rat lovers writing about how they carry around their big squishy girls and boy rats?


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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

When talking about having less room that means IN THEORY that the rats have less room.... 

Rats ALWAYS find a way. 

I have sat watching TV when I can feel my shelf being prodded and poked so it will be at maximum comfort level. Regardless of whether Mother Nature never intended for such things to go that way!! 

Nanashi7 
I'm sorry to hear you can't get a family portrait. I only have four so the odds are more in my favour. 

I managed to get one of them all together on the back of the sofa. 

Maybe you could do this with some of them and put the photos all together afterwards? 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

My poor rats. Yes, I counted their paws wrong. Everyone is whole and proper. Though it seems to be the hind ones they like to dig in or painfully slow slide down with. It's like they hone those back ones into pinpricks. 

My attempts at photoshop have all been abysmal failures. I'm holding out for the girls to drop in energy levels after puberty (but I won't hold my breath)


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

First they pull with their hands then they hang on and push really hard with their feet. Then they repeat the process... Most of the actual work is done with their legs. 

Actually once you've seen rats burrow outdoors in nature it makes sense why the back claws would hurt more... The dirt flies quite a distance. It's remarkable how deep they can go and how quickly they can get there. It's all over in a matter of minutes.


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