# unweaned baby please help



## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

Just acquired unweaned baby eyes and ears closed with fur skin tells its dehydrated it has taken some soy based baby formula but not much it has poo and peedd a few times but not much appetite I got it a heating pad but it is very skinny and I am scared I've never had a rat please help I don't want it to die
(Picture is compared to my pinky finger)


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

The baby looks very skinny and under condition. He/she will only drink a little at a time, the key is to do it often... as often as it will take it but at least every 2 hours (including at night) You have to wipe its genitals with a warm damp cloth to stimulate them to go the bathroom after every feeding. 

What exactly do you need help with? Any specific questions. You have to prepare yourself for the worst, because babies in this condition often don't make it despite the best efforts.


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

He is pretty lethargic... that's why I said he doesn't have muuch appetite he ate once. Waited 2 hours and he wasn't interested. The few times he pottied was when I stimulated him with a cloth but it is a bit liquid is that bad? I just hope he pulls through is there anything you can suggest that may work better than baby formula? Maybe ensure or something similar?


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Maybe you could pick up a non soy based baby formula. At this young age, milk is best. But you can try offer some ensure after he rejects the milk and see if he will more readily take that... if hes lethargic theres no limit as to the amount he should be offered. 

Is he warm to the touch? Does he move or squeak much? massaging him will promote good circulation.


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

He is warmm and he moves quite a bit and he has squeaked a few times but not repetitively I will try milk and ensure if that doesn't work thank you also is there anything I should look out for other than obvious signs... also the few times he pottied the feces was a bit liquid with no urine is this bad?


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

No don't worry about his runny stools, this is normal as hes on an all liquid diet at this age. 

The main signs you want to watch out for is that hes warm, his feet don't turn blue.. hes responsive, feeding regularly, going the bathroom several times a day. You might not notice hes peeing as at this age if he has taught himself to go the bathroom already, as its such a small amount. He needs around the clock care to have the best chance to of making it.

I'm wishing you and your baby all the best. Also if he does make it, please remember that wild rats are much different from domestic rats even when handled lots. You may not notice until he turns 6/7 months old and gets hormones. You can try a neuter or spay, but they generally always have a more twitchy flighty nature.


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

He does seem to like the milk more, but he will still only ttake a very small amount which I imagine should be more, since he has fur at this stage I thought he should want more... he doesn't potty on his own I've stimulated him to do both a few times and he is much more lively than when he got here so (knock on wood) it seems that he may make it. Thank you very much for your help I will definitely post again if I have any questions (as you see it is early I just fed him) looks like I'll have a pocket friend for school tomorrow...otherwise he wouldn't be fed all day


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

That is good news, keep doing what your doing - they only take small amounts at a time - this is normal.. don't forget how tiny they are... their stomach is smaller than their head. Keep us updated for sure!!

Are you able to feed him throughout the night too? thats really crucial. 

Do you know what the gender is yet?


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

Yes, even though my boyfriend brought him home, I was the one up all night caring for him x.x haha it's ok though, seeing him perk up is enough gratification for me. I keep shying away from naming him though, just in case  
I believe it's a he, I checked out some sexing websites and it seemed to fit... he has a little protrusion further away from the anus. I won't be for sure until he ages a bit though, of course


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

After every feeding, when I'm done stimulating him to potty, I massage him then set him back on his heating pad. He burrows around then begins grooming himself and squeaks a few times ...the first few times I figured he may still be hungry so I offer him more but he doesn't want it and I thought maybe he needed to potty more so I did again for a minute and no potty, maybe he wanted more massaging so I pick him up to pet him more and he tries to scamper off! Any ideas why or what I should check for/is this possibly a squeak of content?


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

He may just be squeaking so his mom can locate him, try make his little nest warm - maybe add a stuffy for him to cuddle up with. Is he warm enough? Don't forget its a totally new environment for him, feed him, clean him, make him potty and keep him warm and safe - thats all you can and the rest is up to him. But it sounds like hes a fighter so far so fingers crossed. 

Can you see any nipples on him? boys have no nipples, girls do!


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

He does enjoy burrowing under the bedding I put on his heating pad. I do keep him warm and no he doesn't have any nipples haha. He is really gaining his strength because he was exploring his whole cage this morning! It really seems like he is going to pull through- no more shaking, he's very lively, and he seems to be gaining some weight as well as being warmer on his own... I'm hoping for the best


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

It sounds like he is defiantly improving... I think now he deserves a name  You've done such a great job so far, raising babies is not easy.


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

Haha thankies!  I really love seeing him run around all lively and active. He also likes milk diluted peanut butter.  
I was thinking something like Orphan, Lonely, Survivor, Koji, Kodokuna, or Izoku. (Japanese translations of the names.)


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

I really like the name Koji... and thats Japanese for orphan? awwwe 

What kind of stage is he at in his development now? You may be able to start offering a small amount of solids to him which he may nibble on if hes getting around his cage. Maybe sprinkle a few oats or other whole grains you can find at the grocery store. He won't eat much, but he'll start to nibble and get additional nutrients between feedings. 

Are his eyes open?


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

Yes, Koji is orphan. ^^ No, his eyes still aren't open. I'm not sure what you mean by stage in his development... he has had fur since we found him, he is still a bit skinny but definitely gaining weight and always has a full belly. He also cleans himself and goes over his body with his paws as well as exploring more every day. Recently after I feed him, he twitches quite a bit, and goes straight to sleep after he potties... he hasn't done it before, but the past few times he has been consuming a lot more food and then does that. He is still responsive and warm though, and he immediately goes to sleep when I put him back in his nest. Then next time he wakes up, feed him and repeat. When he is awake though he is much more hyper and actually runs and rolls on his back and wiggles around while drinking his milk


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Thats an adorable name, I really like it! 

I'd still pin him around the 2.5 week mark, his eyes should open within the next week. I'd wait till his eyes were open and he was exploring a bit more until you offer him some solid food to nibble on. Do you have any updated pics? I'd love to see him.


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

He also has little teeth if that helps lol and thankies it means quite a bit to have someone praise my care, especially someone as experienced as you! 
I don't have any new ones now, but I will post some more as soon as I get them!  He is looking pretty good!

Edit: as promised, here are some updated pictures. I caught a perfect one when he was eating doing his silly thing with his tail! He sticks it straight up in the air and wiggles it! Haha so cute


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Oh wow, hes cute!! He looks like hes made some visual improvements as well.. still has some weight to gain. Defiantly looks like a little wild baby! Do you plan to keep him? They do tend to resort back to their wild ways when they mature, but I have heard of exceptions! 

The tense tail means hes very excited and obviously LOVES feeding time! hehe.


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

I would be really sad to see him go, but if he does revert to his wild ways, I am probably going to do the best thing for him and release him in the woods near my home...


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Well that wouldn't really be the best thing for him because he will become dependent on you for food and water... he will be semi domesticated and almost certainly be killed quickly by predators if the weather doesn't affect him first. If you want to release him, you have to start planning for that now.... don't baby him and pet him more than you have to... just feed him, make him go the bathroom then leave him. Set up an enclosure for him outside, and once hes 4-5 weeks start getting him accustomed to being outdoors during the day time, in at night. Leading to living outside full time. You can provide a little food for him, but scatter and hide it so he has to 'find' it. Also buy live bugs from a pet store and put them in and around his enclosure so he learns to hunt. When you come to release him, just open the enclosure and let him go (if thats feasible) so he has the option of returning to safety and continue to a little bit of food for him in his enclosure. If its not feasible, set up an enclosure for him somewhere else, take familiar bedding, rocks, twigs etc and provide a little food for him here.


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm too attached  he's my baby I just can't let him go ,_,


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## oatsnyogurt (Apr 5, 2010)

He is so cute! ;D

If he is a wild rat you can always just neuter him when he's old enough. I have heard people with even half wild rats that neutering is essential to keep there wild hormones down.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

Even if you love him, remember where a wild animal belongs. In the wild.
He is not a domestic rat, not even a halfie. :/


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thankies Oats!  
Kiko: I know I have thought about that nature vs. nurture and there are exceptions... I'm willing to pay to get him fixed and I would do anything for him... I'm scared to throw him back out though. He's been rejected once, left to die, and I never imagined having a rat as a pet... yet here I am, so fully in love with him that I adopted another special needs rat. I know there must have been a reason I found him, and I don't feel like it was to release him, but to love him...


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

If you truly love him you'll do what's best for him, not yourself. :-[


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

MINE


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

I know wild animals belong in the wild... but when a human has to intervene and raise the animal.. I would consider them semi domesticated. Obviously still wild, but not used to the cold nights, hunting for food... even eating the same diet they would outside. The OP doesn't have the facilities or means to set this rat back up for being released... so in this case I see keeping him as the best option. As long as you understand this little guy IS going to be a handful, will require a neuter (I'd say $150 is the average price.. but it could very well be much higher) and will need you to work with him lots and adjust yourself to him. Also once you decide to keep him... you HAVE YOU to commit yourself to being his owner for the rest of his life... not slip the burden onto someone else when you realize how much work they are! I'm an experienced owner and even I would be nervous to own a wild one.

Also he likely won't be ideal to be put in with a three year old female.. as hes young and will want someone younger to play with him - he'll bug your old girl. He'll likely be EXTRA rambunctious so I'd intro him to a large slightly older male.


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## JennBell (Sep 16, 2010)

I think I would have to agree with Ema Leigh, we are coming up on the winter months and before this little guy is old enough to fend for himself winter will be in full force in most places and it wouldn't be likely for him to survive. I live in Louisiana and a lot of loggers around here bring home baby squirrels when they find nests in trees that have been cut, they are wild animals but do well in captivity although most of the ones around here are release slowly once they are older with the people putting feeders out for them and stuff until they quit coming back around, by spring he should be almost fully grown so she "could" try it then but its her decision.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

Why did the OP Edit her post about the rat being wounded?
How is he doing? You said your cat took a large chunk out of him and he needed vet care :/

now all the post says is "MINE"


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

And as much as the rat can't be released It's also important for the OP to understand that this is a special circumstance, and that this rat may be semi-domestic but is still NOT a pet rat, it will have very different personality from a full domestic rat. It is more of a permanent wild animal rehab


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Yeah what Kiko said, he is a wild animal and *will* revert back to his instincts. He will never be a good cuddly pet, you will have to adjust your lifestyle to him, not the other way around. I believe Lilspaz raised a little of half wilds from birth, and despite being only half wild they were not domestic cuddly pet rats. Maybe she could let you know what that experience was like, and she is a very dedicated experienced pet owner. Or you could PM her and ask for more details? 

Your cat injured the baby? Is he okay?


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

Even the domestic one I got is wild, she runs around like crazy trying to bite me and only wants to play with the bottle and ball in her cage. I am very ready, I have risen many wild animals (although not rats, it is still experience) and I do change my life to fit them. I know just because he is cuddly now doesn't mean he will be in months. I am sincerely ready to take full care of him, wild or not, and I don't appreciate being doubted. Although I am new to rats, I do dedicate my life to animals, and have had mice, hedgehogs, dogs, cats, guinea pigs, hamsters, birds, horses... wild and tame. I do love this boy, and I am ready for wild behavior and the costs that come with him. After all, I did just pay $240 for his surgery, and that is a drop in the hat for how in love and attached I am to him.

He got through surgery and is doing great. I was in pieces all day worrying about him. I literally cried until I was dehydrated. He is eating and walking fine and he will be home tomorrow. I am going to get a door for the seperate room before he gets back, this way if someone lets my cat in, she can't get to him again.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

He had surgery for what exactly? 

No one is doubting you, we just want you to be well informed and prepared. Also for future reference for anyone who is researching and stumbles upon this thread.. for them to know its never something to be taken lightly.


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

Somebody let my cat inside my room (I think my mom's bf because he forgot about Koji.) and she stuck her paw through the cage and ripped some off the skin off behind his front leg... they closed almost the whole wound and I believe they're sending home some antibiotics and pain meds for him. I'm getting him today in 5 hours and I'm putting him in the seperate room with the door closed to make sure nothing like that ever happens again. I take full responsibility though because even though I didn't let her in I still could have done something else to make sure he was safe... and now I'm paying for everything and I will never let him get hurt again.


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## Legends Of Rock Rattery (Oct 18, 2010)

Dang..poor little fella just cant catch a break. 
I had a white mouse when I was little...she escaped for a few days. Turned out she mated with a field mouse and had 5 little babies. from the time they got fur...even after I handled them..they were wild...theyre eyes werent even open and when they noticed I was holding them they freaked out and tried to run as fast as they could to get away..Needless to say theyre little butts ended up outside.

He might turn out to be a good pet. Only time will tell.


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

Legends- the baby in your picture is absolutely adorable! I love the colors. My baby has never acted like that. In fact, he is very nervous and restless until he climbs into my hand then he'll start cleaning himself and fall asleep.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

Lol also remember he is still a tiny baby, once he hits 5 weeks and on he will be a typical rat flying around everywhere.


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## Arbutus (Jul 31, 2010)

Kiko said:


> Why did the OP Edit her post about the rat being wounded?
> How is he doing? You said your cat took a large chunk out of him and he needed vet care :/
> 
> now all the post says is "MINE"


I was wondering the same thing. I saw the original post and when I went to ask about it, it had been edited. 
I'm more of a lurker than a poster xD


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

I know he will be crazy, and I can't wait for then! That's when animals get the most fun! Hahaha and I edited that post because nobody replied and I knew he got out of surgery and is doing great.
I found out adding peanut butter and formula to his meds makes him more eager to take them. Also, he is eating solid food and pottying on his own now! I also caught him playing in his wheel! My baby is growing up so fast! *tears of joy* Oh, and he is gaining some weight that is visibly showing and he keeps after he potties.


EDIT: attached some pictures of Ame! Is she a certain breed?
Also, a new picture of Koji since he's gained weight! (It shows the leg he had surgery on, and as you can tell, he is doing excellent!)


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Ame a certain breed? Shes a rat! There all the same breed/species. Just different colors, coat types and ear positions. Her color looks to be a fawn hooded to me, but I didn't maximize that picture. Standard coat, standard ears. She doesn't look three years old to me! 

He had surgery? or just glued the wound back together? I don't really see much on the picture that would indicate surgery, like a shaved spot.. but the pic is kind of blurry. He looks like he has made a lot of improvement...


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

Bah! I meant the colors! Haha :b 

They did suture it back together, but she did a great job... the only way you can tell is if you feel his skin around the area and you feel small bumps from the sutures. He only has a small spot on his 'elbow' I guess, that has the only opening where the skin wouldn't fit over, but it is very small. I will get better pictures later on today.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

Oh and don't use peanut butter it's been known to get stuck in rat throats and choke them.


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

Well I always dilute it and mix it in with milk or ensure and heat it up to be sure there are no chunks of peanut butter left


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

The small arrow points to the one open injury that could not be closed for lack of skin. The larger arrow shows the obvious suturing, but it goes up most of his shoulder area.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Okay well after I did maximize the picture.. Ame is a beige hooded, Koji is an Agouti.


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## animeangel333 (Oct 14, 2010)

Haha thankies Ema, yet again!


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

I raised a fully wild girl from 10 days old and she took a LOT of work. I had to spend months taking her around outside in my jumper to desensitize her to strange noises and smells (weaken her natural instincts). Luckily, almost completely domesticated and was an absolute angel of a rat. She would only ever really trust me, didn't like strangers at all. I found the best way to 'teach' her is with other domestic rats. They teach what is to be feared, what is not, and the while learns from their behaviour.

Depending on his health later on, you may also want to consider neutering him. Some wild boys can get particularily nasty with those hormones 

Just a little it of experience to share  Good luck and I look forward to hearing more about this guy.

Oh, and re. the fleas, the fleas won't live on the rat they will only feed. The two wilds I bought in had them and once we treated the room they were in the fleas disappeared without the need to treat the babies themselves


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