# Sudden lump under my rat's throat



## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

Once again, my rat Shrieksy has another problem. Before, it was a head tilt that the vet couldnt figure out what was causing it, and now she has a sudden lump on the underside of her throat that seems to have developed overnight. She's still being her normal self (eating, drinking, playing) but now she has a rather large lump. When I touch it, it doesnt seem to hurt or bother her, and it feels sorta hard. My friend says it could be an abscess, but I don't feel any kind of fluid in there (Then again, I dont know how an abscess would actually feel with fluid in it.) The skin feels like it moves independently of the lump. I heard there was something called a Waxy Abscess, where it's hard inside, or it could be a swollen lymph gland.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50935/20141009_025142.jpg

It's sorta hard to see the lump in the picture, but its between her mouth and arm, right on the side of her throat.


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## paigebrittain_ (May 14, 2013)

My girl has the same thing. It came up within an hour. The vet said it's a swollen lymph node which could be either caused by infection or cancer and we were given some baytril.

It could be an abscess (never came across one before myself so not sure) but it's worth getting her checked out by a vet asap just to be sure what it is. Thinking of you both, hope she is okay!


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Pop to the vets and get a fine needle aspiration. This will tell you tumor, sickness, or abscess in minutes.


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

I requested a vet appointment on saturday. Hopefully I can get in. Her breathing is rather loud now. She's not breathing through her mouth and it doesnt sound like she's struggling (rattling breathing), but it sounds like her nose might be stuffed up. Is there anything I can do for her till Saturday? I'm starting to think it's a swollen lymph node. I heard they feel "hard" when touched, but I dont know how hard they are referring to. The lump is about the size of a small marble (Bigger than a pea, but not walnut sized)


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

I bumped the appointment up to today and I assume the vet will do a fine needle aspiration. I'vebeen told it can be very expensive to get one. What are the usual price ranges for one?


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

Just an update: Looks like it may have been just an abscess. The stuff that came out with the FNA was an off color white and stringy like pus. Got some baytril for it.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

They have a throat glands there that is prone to abcesses. If the baytril doesn't clear it up ask for amoxycillin. It's generally better for abcesses


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

The vet asked me to come in on Wednesday for another FNA as the pus from the sample was "inconclusive." Not sure what another sample will acomplish


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Rocco has a lump under his throat! I am making his appointment tomorrow. I'm nervous because he is so new to me, and he is so little still. If he needs surgery or anything the vet told me he is too young/small. Ugh.... I hope he doesn't have cancer. Poor baby rat. I hope yours is feeling better.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Honestly lumps under the throat are useually a salyviary gland infection (in which case they normally drool) or a throat gland. They dont need suregery unless its very stubborn or feels hard and lumpy. A covering of amoxycillin is not a bad idea but normally warm compress to bring to a head followed by flushing out the wound until it heals from the inside out resolves it well. Amox is baby safe, i would avoid baytril in a young rat if at all possible (under 13 weeks)


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

I believe he is under 13 weeks, someone told me he looked 5-6 at the most when I got him. The lump is kind of hard feeling. I guess it's to be expected getting a little rat from a lady standing outside a store


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

I'm not sure what to make of it now. She really struggles when I put the warm compress on her lump and she's constantly squeaking now. I have her on baytril again, but I think she might be in some kind of pain. If she was on Baytril I think it'd clear up any kind of myco she'd have, too. She seems way more reclusive and fidgety then normal. Could it be because of the possible abscess about to open?


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

I've found when the abcesses are close to popping they are more fidgety, this is probably down to pain as if youve ever had an abcess or infection it is quite sore just before it pops, then its a real releif. If it doesnt go soon or she seems ill in any way then get her to the vet to have it lanced


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## Dan203 (Jul 10, 2014)

Tempy just wen through this. The vet popped it on the first visit, but it came back so we went back. The second time she just wanted to try meds, but after about a week it had gotten a little bigger and he ended up chewing a hole into it himself. (He pulled it out with his front paws just enough to chew on it) I took him back and she clipped off a bit of dead skin and told me to keep it clean. For two days I sprayed warm saline into the hole twice a day, then by the third it had closed up enough that I couldn't. Now it's completely gone except for a small bald patch where the scar is.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Ah ew. Haha that's so intense


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

Since the possible abscess is right on her throat, could it be that it's making it hard to breath and thats why she's squeaking and sneezing a lot? She never used to squeak or sneeze before this abscess. i'm starting to think it might be something more


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

She's probably sick. The doc can drain it for you and pop her on some medicine, I'd use amoxi. Then you keep the hole open and clean twice daily for five days.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I should clarify. I mean she's ill, but from something connected to the throat lump.


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

I just read that some rats can have allergies. It may be cause she's feeling poorly from the (possible) abscess and that it's getting to that time of year where Ihave to run the furnace so I assume there's dust in the vents. My other rat is sniffling a bit too, but not near as much as my other one. It probably doesn't help that they like to play/sleep in a hat box right next to the air vent when I let them out.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Watching the vet stab my baby rat in the throat was awful! He believes it's all puss and wanted to give me baytril. I wouldn't take it though. So he gave me something that starts with a T and S. I'll check tomorrow. He kind of brushed off my suggestion for amoxycillin. He said if this TS stuff doesn't work in two weeks that they will try amoxycillin. Since I didn't know what I was talking about too much I just agreed. Hopefully Rocco feels better. 140 in vet visits are not fun! Even more because it was all painful for poor Rocs  he said if Rocco's sneezing is all healed in a couple weeks and The puss ball gets bigger, he will just surgically remove the puss when he "fixes" Rocco.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

They gave me sulfameth-trimeth(in cherry flavor.) To op, if you want me to start a new thread please let me know. I figured I could just join your instead of starting another lumpy throat post. Since we are having the same problem and all.


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## Dan203 (Jul 10, 2014)

That's what my vet gives me. She says it's less harsh on the kidneys then baytrail. It's worked for a couple of URIs however it didn't have much effect on the abscess. You just need to be really diligent about keeping the cut open and cleaning it out so that it heals from the inside out. Otherwise the skin will heal and it will come back. That's what happened with Tempy. He struggled and squeaked so much that I felt terrible cleaning it so I only did it for a couple days and just let it close up on it's own. Then it came back and he ended up chewing it open himself which I'm sure was painful. The second time I was diligent about keeping the hole open and cleaning it twice a day, no matter how much he protested, and that time it healed and went away.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

I'll look for the hole. The needle was so small that I'm not sure where it is. Haha but I will look! Thank you


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## Dan203 (Jul 10, 2014)

Oh he didn't lance it? In my case she used a scalpel to lance it so there was an obvious hole.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

No he just poked it to see of it's cancer or not. Oh goodness. I should stab Rocco's puss ball?


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

Got back from my second vet visit (due to the FNA being inconclusive. This time the liquid that came out was clear with a little blood rather than the almost solid pieces of pus (like if someone popped a big zit) that came out the time before. Maybe the baytril cleared up the infection but the bump is a little bigger from last visit


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

My vet just called and said it was an abscess on the lymph node (lymphadenitis) but he is going to get a second opinion from the other vet tomorrow. Is this dangerous?


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## Dan203 (Jul 10, 2014)

gotchea said:


> No he just poked it to see of it's cancer or not. Oh goodness. I should stab Rocco's puss ball?


I wouldn't try to stab it myself. There are way to many vital things right there. You could screw up and kill him. Try the antibiotics for a while, if it doesn't go away take him back and have the vet lance it.


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

Can't find any data on the recovery rate of rats with Lymphadenitis (if that's what my rat really has) only the treatment and transfer to people. Honestly I hope the vet calling about the 2nd opinion tomorrow says she doesn't have rat bite fever. With the amount of times my rat tries to put her hands in my mouth or her nose in my ears or nose, you'd think I'd have rat bite fever by now, too


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

The lymph nodes can get infected, though useually you see this spread to other nodes in the body (armpits have some for instance), if you get this its a fairly systemic infection and not great. For jsut one to abcess you've proabbly got a localised infection which has caused inflamation of the lymph nodes. I would keep him on a good course of anitbiotics for a while and probably some anit inflamatory too. If it doesnt come down in a couple of weeks on that i would worry more.


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## paigebrittain_ (May 14, 2013)

I also have a girl with a lumpy throat  Vet said it looked like an infection so she was on baytril for 2 weeks, it went almost comepletly down so vet said keep her on it another 2 weeks. It came back up  Had her back and was told the swollen lymph node feels lumpy but because it went down they think it's more likely to be an infection than cancer. Shes on another month of baytril and this time metacam but its so so big now. I'm going to have her back for a FNA. Any idea how much this will cost in the UK? Not a problem but I'd like an idea. 

Finger crossed for everyone!


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

with the lab test a fna coat me £60 at a quite expensive vet. amusingly i could have sent off 3 samples for the same price


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## paigebrittain_ (May 14, 2013)

Thank you! That's about what I was expecting. Hoping it's not cancer but the antibiotics obviously haven't helped so I'm expecting the worst.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

You could try steroids at a pinch (not whilst using metacam or another none steroidal anti inflammatory). They are potent anti inflammatory which can help againststubborn infections and also effective at shrinking tumours. They do lower the immune system so you do need to be careful when you use them


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## paigebrittain_ (May 14, 2013)

Steroids are the next resort. Do you think it's worth getting the FNA and keeping her on the antibiotics and metacam and then going on to steroids?

My vet said you can only inject rats with steroids as they can't take tablets but I'm pretty sure I could crush it up and give her it?

The only thing is about her immune system being lowered. Her sister has an unknown illness at the moment and I can't imagine separating them


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

Still waiting on that 2nd opinion from the other vet. Really not liking this first vet as he "took it upon himself" to check the FNA under the slide, even though the 2nd vet was supposed to do that and inform me today. My rat's lump has grown almost twice in size after getting her back from the vet.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdxnhgl059iqb18/20141016_183443.jpg?dl=0


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

Well I didn't want to get that kind of 2nd opinion from the vet. One vet claims it's rat bite fever while the other claims it's a mammary tumor. I didn't know mammary tumors could grow from a small pea size to a walnut size in less than a few days. I honestly dont know which vet to believe. One is urging me to get her in for a $450 surgery while the other wants me to keep giving her a warm compress and baytril.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

paigebrittain_ said:


> Steroids are the next resort. Do you think it's worth getting the FNA and keeping her on the antibiotics and metacam and then going on to steroids?
> 
> My vet said you can only inject rats with steroids as they can't take tablets but I'm pretty sure I could crush it up and give her it?
> 
> The only thing is about her immune system being lowered. Her sister has an unknown illness at the moment and I can't imagine separating them


You can give tablets too. predinose is the normal one, usually 1/8 ti 1/4 and it's easiest to crush, put in a thin line and divide into doses. a Dex injection to start helps. As Rio wether to do that now or not how long have they been on abs?

Ory, at that growth speed it's most likley to be am abcess. i would go for lancing if your worried and finding hot compress hard. That's cheaper than surgery. I'm not convinced on the rat bite fever unless they've sent a sample to the vets


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

She's squeaking a lot when she sleeps, too. I'm not sure if she's having trouble breathing or they're pain squeaks. She still eats and drinks everything I give her, though and she still does her massive leaps up my leg while I'm sitting in my chair so she seems to have the appetite and energy still. Sadly these are the only vets that do rats in a 400 km drive radius, and I'm starting not to trust either of them. The first FNA had pus in it (tumors don't have pus as far as I know) the 2nd FNA they didn't show me, but they said the FNA had clear liquid in it this time (after 7 days of baytril) One says it was an abscess, then changed his mind and said it was rat bite fever. The other who's never seen my rat before says it's a mammary tumor that developed in 2 weeks. Not sure which one to believe


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## paigebrittain_ (May 14, 2013)

She's been on baytril 5 weeks now and matacam 1 week with 3 weeks of both left.

I'm so sorry that you're not getting a straight diagnosis, Ory. It's horrible not knowing. My vet just says might be cancer might be an infection and that's as much as he knows really  I'm glad to hear she's still eating. That's sort of what I'm finding comfort in with Maisie. She's still greedy and lively.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Ory, ask for doxyciclin. It'll kill off an RBF. 

Everyone else, if your vet won't lance it just do warm compresses and see if it grows. Eventually it'll come to a head.


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

That's if they'll give me doxy. They've already taken the liberty of sending me a letter with the operation estimation


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

I tried doing another warm compress and it seemed to distress her and put her in a bit of discomfort. I also noticed there's a lot of myco around her nose now. She's squeaking a lot and I'm not sure of that's her breathing or if they're pain squeaks


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## Ory (Sep 18, 2013)

I'm taking my rat in for surgery on Wednesday morning now. The lump seems to have gotten a bit red and she's lost some weight (Though she's still active most of the time.) I'm hoping the vet was right (The one who's only seen the FNA slide and not my actual rat.) I don't want them doing surgery for something they aren't sure of.


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