# rat getting human pain killers...O_O



## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

So was having a talk with a friend of mine, who has sneezing guinea pig noise boys. Our chat went on and we came to the point when we were talking about my Piippa, who is currently having baytril for pyometra.
So we started talking about pain, and painkillers and she mentioned that her friend who just got her 2 first rats, is giving the rats human painkiller for headaches etc. Ketomex is the name of the pain killer (ketoprofen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketoprofen ) 25mg pills. She is giving them for the rat cos she has tumors, and she cannot afford vet. 
Now I know you should NEVER give human meds to pets.
Im just worried if it does something bad to the little rattie. Ive already yelled at her and told her not to give them to the rats and instead ask for loan from friends etc etc and just get a vet time. I even told her that im ready to loan her 20-30e if she just gets an appointment to the vet and stops.
The rats are according to my friend and her friend, doing fine, even tho they are getting the ketoprofen.

Im sorry if this post didnt make any sense, im just quite angry :x

Edit: Also according to the girl, the rat is doing much better with the ketoprofen than out of it... :?


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

Whoa. I've taken Ketoflam before, and it's pretty heavy duty pain medication. I've got endometriosis that comes with awful abdominal cramps, and so far Ketoflam is the only thing that can touch the pain. Prescription ibuprofren, naproxen, Darvocet and even Loratab don't even come close.

I really doubt that even if it is safe for rats, that she's able to get the dose right. I would call a vet you trust, explain the situation, and see if they can work something out with her like low monthly payments.


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## Ratty1100 (Nov 17, 2007)

Many things are tested on rats before using them on humans, so it may even not be dangerous, when the rat is being given the right dose. 
Indeed i even know that many vets are writing out human medicine for rats.

BUT she doesnÂ´t problably know exacly the right dose (or is it really safe), and i also think she should use something weaker. 

But she can at least call the vet and ask what she may use and how much to give, right?

No-one must never give oneÂ´s something without consulting the vet. NEVER. :evil:


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

There are certain human pain meds that can be given to rats, but you have to be very, very careful with dosage and overmedicating, etc, and I personally would not trust myself to adminster anything to a rat without a vet's confirmation that it's safe. Overdosing on painkillers can kill humans, why not rats?

I would have her at the LEAST call a vet and ask for an appropriate dosage to be sure.

But, the thing is, painkillers won't cure the rat. This way she's just condemning them to a slow death, painless perhaps, but still.

Definitely ask about a payment plan... most vets will help if they can.


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

Ratty1100 said:


> Many things are tested on rats before using them on humans, so it may even not be dangerous, when the rat is being given the right dose.


True, but we must always remember that physiological differences do exist. Take, for instance, that you cannot give dogs and cats ibuprofren because it's extremely hard on their liver. I've fielded calls working in a vet clinic from people who call us AFTER they've already given their old, arthritic dog Advil.

But that the same medication causes gastric upset and sometimes ulcers in humans and rats, and could potentially be extremely easy to overdose such a small animal and cause GI bleeding.

Which is why you've gotta be SO cautious about self-medicating yourself or your animals.


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

yeah, ive called most of the vets now, around my area and couple from further away, asking if they treat rats, and do they have a possibility for a payment plan.
The person who is giving the human pain killers dont know anything about medicating. She just gives one pill with food everyday, according to her own and my friends words.
I just dont feel its right to give human meds to rats WITHOUT the "permission" of a person who really knows what theyre doing.


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

Ugh. I can't believe how irresponsible your friend is. Unless she's trying to overdose and kill her rat due to her mammary cancer, which is possible.

Tell her this: the human dose of Ketoflam is 200mg every 24 hours. She's giving a rat that weighs less than a pound one eighth the dose of a human! And we weigh far more than eight times as much as a rat.


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

Is ketoflam same as ketoprofen?
I dont think she wants to kill her rat, since she talks of her like she knows what she is doing. I might be wrong tho. Also she is not my friend, she is my friends friend.


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

i would NEVER do that...if the rat has cancer buy some pot and give it to her...dont go giving her human meds that arent listed anywhere as safe for rats if she cant afford the vets. i see shes trying to do good, but pot is very safe and will make her feel a lot more comfortable. i wouldnt suggest blowing the smoke in the rats face as that could be annoying/bother her, but grinding it up and putting it in some food would do good...and you would have to give the rat twice its body weight in pot in order for it to OD and is a LOT safer than giving her pain pills for humans.


i know a lot of people are going to yell and scream about this, but if youre thinking of telling her this suggestion but are uptight ...

www.norml.org you can find a lot of info on medical marjiuana here.

also...this is in no way a substitute for a vet visit. just a suggestion to help the rat with its pain/nasuea or discomfort until its able to see a vet and get proper care.


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

Marijuana is illegal here. And I would still not give that to a rat 
Vet is where the sick rats should go, and get meds from.


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

its illegal here too doesnt stop me from using it for my health issues. ;] yes vets are the way to go, i edited my post to add that it is no way a substitute for a vet visit, was just trying to give a better suggestion than pain pills for humans. (if my post was inappropriate im sorry, but im very for MM).


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

Yes, Ketoflam is the same medication, just a general name for it. It's included in the list of names in the Wikipedia link you gave.


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

Doh! ive must of skipped the name, i feel so stupid right now


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## Ratty1100 (Nov 17, 2007)

One whole pill? 
Omgh... 0_o
Lucky, that it seems not to be so dangerous to kill the rat first time it wa<s given the pill.

Only time i have heard someone doing something like that was when one couldnÂ´t get the vet because it was weekend, and the only thing the vet would have to do was to put the rat to sleep. Poor creature was in real pains and nothing could be done. The rat still lived two days but at least painlessly.

As far as iÂ´ve heard rats are given only a part of the pill usually 1/4, 1/8 etc.. And still itÂ´s weaker pain killer. And still itÂ´s after consulting the vet or at least some internet pages, which can be trust. 
Some vets here donÂ´t know anything. :/ Have heard very weird opinions.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

Kancerr, can we please refrain from encouraging people to purchase illegal substances, especially concerning their pets?


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

yeah haha i wasnt encouraging it, was simply saying how much safer it is than giving the rat human pain pills which could destroy its liver. sometimes there is a very thin line between right and wrong. i figured we could all be mature adults and make our own decisions on which to do(and like i said i have a lot of muscle and nerve problems and without it i would be miserable, simply giving a suggestion that works and is safe). that girl giving that rat a whole pill a day is rediculous and she should not own a pet period if she just jumps to conclusions and thinks its safe to do so without consulting a vet. but next time i will PM the suggestion if it arises or just stop posting here. thx. get an admin to delete the post if its such a big deal, its not like im some young crackhead sayin hey go get messed up on drugs! its medical and quite annoying that thats what people think of folks like me who are persecuted for it and looked down on. www.norml.org (sorry not trying to thread hijack haha).

another suggestion she might not want to hear...give the rat up find somebody who can get it to a vet asap(make sure theyre aware of the problem) and dont get another until she can afford it. ;/


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

I talked to her today. I asked if she had stop giving it and she said that no.
Well we talked for a bit and I tried explaining the stuff, and she SEEMED to understand my point. Also she said she would stop giving it, and see how it goes. Also I gave her the number to the rather cheap, but efficient vet in helsinki (we live close to it). Also said to ask about the payment plan, which is possible there, but not advisable and the bill must be greater than 80euros etc etc.
Well anyway, hopefully she really understood my point, and will call the vet (its not closed even on weekends, and it has 24/7 open time, I was surprised! :O ). 
Will hear tomorrow wether she did or did not call. She promised to call me.


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

how do you delete a post youve made? haha 

and congrats on getting her to understand. hope everything goes well gl


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

I understand that it works for you (and seems as though you need it for medical reasons), but there alot of impressionable youngsters reading these posts. Also, I would be leary about using it on rats and getting the correct dosage, but I am such a nervous rat mom. Especially as it is illegal to purchase and even possess. If someone is not used to buying it, they don't have a dealer they can trust either, and risk having it laced with other drugs which could only compound the problem. I've seen what happens to humans when it is laced with PCP, and I would hate for someone's rat to go through the same thing.

You can't delete the post (only one of us mods or Ratman can do that), but you can go back and edit it if you wish . I won't delete it, simply because that seems like overkill to me but if you want to edit that part out that is your choice.


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

ill leave it be, sorry if i stirred up any trouble haha, wasn't intentional and i see/understand your point. glad to hear the rat might get some much needed care soon tho!


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