# Should I get my boy neutered?



## lalalauren (Jul 3, 2013)

My Badger isn't an aggressive rat I don't think...he's never bitten or challenged me, but he is extremely spirited. I keep thinking he'll calm down, but I'm not sure. He's roughly 5 months old now. He keeps pestering my other 2, although one more than the other. Tonight, I ran in on them because I heard a lot of horrible squawking. I found one of my rats with a long cut on his ear. Looks like Badger caught him with a claw. There wasn't much blood and I'm happy to let it heal on its own without me interfering. So I figure it wasn't intentional aggression and just a play fight that got out of hand, right? Still, I'm worried about what this could lead to, and think it might help to get this sorted sooner rather than later.

I have a list of pros and cons and would really value any advice I could get from people who have been in similar situations to me.

Pros: 
* Badger will be calmer 
* He'll scent mark less (this isn't a major issue, but he does like to pee on my phone...probably my own fault for leaving it out)
* he'll stop chasing the other two, probably relieving a lot of stress on their part 
* fighting (whether it's play or not) will lessen, lessening the risk of accidents 

Cons:
* I don't fully believe he's actually being intentionally aggressive, and would hate to put him through that just because he's a playful boy
* I believe he's a fairly weak rat anyway - he's suffering from a possibly chronic URI and is on a 4 week course of meds (so I don't think I'd get him the operation until this is over anyway). I have worries that he wouldn't recover from the anaesthetic
* he's been on so much medication this week, the idea of having him on recovery meds after the neutering doesn't fill me with joy

What do you think? :/


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

My opinion is no. I have a hyper silly male who can be a bit much. He's been neutered (not related to anything but him having balls) and has not changed. He still is super hyper. He only doesn't cause problems because now there are other hyper rats.

It's really dangerous and probably won't help.


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

I'd say persevere with him for the next couple of months, and wait to see if the fighting intensifies. There's a chance he could get aggressive within the next month or so, and even so with you as I'm sure you've said he's been nippy with you before? If things worsen then consider it. It also gives him time to get better.


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## Daize (Jun 8, 2013)

It you decide to get him neutered, he won't calm down instantly. It's a gradual process. It could take as much as 6 months. Since it takes so long, you won't really notice much of a difference. Reduction in marking is also a gradual process. That is "if" he actually stops marking as much. A good vet won't even consider neutering while a rat has a URI. So, he'd have to be healthy before it could even be done. 

It's up to you if you want to neuter him or not. The changes are so gradual, it won't solve any immediate problems. Some males, as they mature, will calm down without neutering.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Generally neutering is more of a wish for a quick fix than a reality. We've done immersions on neutered rats that remained biting and aggressive after the surgery.

Rats have a certain personality and carry emotional luggage that often makes them act the way they do. In some cases emotionally unstable rats can actually be more screwed up by undergoing an unnecessary surgery. A neuter isn't a lobotomy, even a lobotomy isn't always successful.


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## lalalauren (Jul 3, 2013)

That solves that then! Everyone seems to be pretty set on no, and I'm happy to go with that. Thing is, I don't necessarily want to tone down the hyper. I love that about him. I just want him to stop pestering the other boys because I'm worried that it's going to escalate and something is going to happen and I may not be around to break it up :/ I assumed that without his need to be on top all of the time, I could near enough eliminate that possibility. 

I know it's dangerous, which is why I'm putting so much thought into it - I really don't want to do it if I don't need to, and if the replies here are anything to go by, I probably shouldn't.

@ratclaws - he was nippy with me before, yes, but he's not now. I've managed to put a stop to it, which is good. If he wanted to seriously bite me, he's had enough changes now. 


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## Crezzard (Jul 20, 2013)

In your situation I would say no. I'm
Currently waiting for the phone call to tell me to pick my boys up. They're being neutered as we speak!!


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## Phantom (Apr 4, 2012)

I would have to disagree with some of the pros you mentioned. I currently have one rat who I've gotten neutered and he does not scent mark, but he is probably the most hyper rat you will ever meet. I think because the testosterone is gone he has no energy limits. Lol. He still chases everyone around, and he loves to wrestle with people's hands. There really wasn't that much of a behavior change except that he became more active. He's also the first rat to listen and come when I call my rats.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Sadly, many neuters are done by people that don't really have enough time to work with their rats behavioral issues and they are in search of a quick fix. While neuters do have certain benefits in certain situations, all too often people are disappointed depending on their expectations.

Not so long ago, before immersion, people with biting rats and other emotionally distressed rats had few alternatives so neutering was pretty common, not that it worked in every case, but at least it was something to do... and with a biting rat, you really had little to lose.

Now that there are behavioral options you were very wise to do this inquiry so you can weigh the risks verses the benefits as well as the odds of something solving your problems.


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## lalalauren (Jul 3, 2013)

Hmm that's interesting. I really did think a neutering would calm him down, but it looks like it's too much of a risk to do when it probably won't have the desired effects! 

I'm very glad I got opinions on here first. I was leaning towards not doing it because, like I've said, there's been no aggression yet as such - I'm just worried it'll happen at some point...but then I see them all cuddled up in bed at night and it confuses me


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## Mouse8 (Oct 8, 2013)

Don't neuter the rat if you like your pet?
Ask yourself the following questions?
-Would you like yourself to get neutered?
-And lose your only sense in life?
-Lose all your energy and spirit (no testosterone anymore)?
-become someone else, a boring being just waiting to die all your life?
*Neutering is the biggest cruelty to animals!* Nothing compares to that!
Don't do it, It's against nature!

[In case if they get too many, you can still give the ugly ones to neighbours dog/cat/snake, it's natural, the way of life  ]


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## Crezzard (Jul 20, 2013)

Mouse8 that's really idiotic of you to say that..... In many cases it's cruel to keep the testicles especially in the presence of female rats because it's taunting and teasing because they aren't allowed to breed. Horses are dangerous if kept entire, as are many other animals. I can't believe you'd say something so stupid (sorry if I sound mean) 


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## Crezzard (Jul 20, 2013)

I've just had 2 male rats neutered so they can live happily with the girls in a big cage. The operation went smoothly and they are already back to their normal selves watching tv with me. Their op was yesterday 





















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## lalalauren (Jul 3, 2013)

Ehhhh... I disagree that neutering is cruel. I probably won't get my boy neutered given he responses to this thread, but wouldn't you agree that, if my boy did start to get aggressive towards his cagemates that not neutering him would be cruel to them? Yes, I could house him as a lone rat in a separate cage, but isn't that cruel too? 

Like I said, I won't be neutering. I'm sure he's just playing - just unfortunately a little rough, but hopefully it won't get any worse than it is now


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## Mouse8 (Oct 8, 2013)

I really don't want to be mean, but from my experience and all the good pet-keepers I know, they never neutered their animals, NO MATTER WHAT.
And all of them had like really big yards, where their pets could run around, climb, have food from the nature, 

and then I met some of the so-called fancy animal-keepers, with their pets being caged and neutered, they use artifcial food, those animals never saw the sun, day/night rhytms, used hairspray/parfums or smoked next to the cage, and all those plastic stuff, television or loud music/ vacuum cleaner ... OMG . And those people are the ones calling others doing animal cruelty (live feeding, wooden houses, natural food, DIY), while being themselves the biggest torturers of all. 

Just my 2 cents. Sorry for being so mean. But *I love animals *and wanted to say clearly what I usually hesitate to say out loud.
Think about it


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## Mouse8 (Oct 8, 2013)

Crezzard said:


> Mouse8 that's really idiotic of you to say that..... In many cases it's cruel to keep the testicles especially in the presence of female rats because it's taunting and teasing because they aren't allowed to breed. Horses are dangerous if kept entire, as are many other animals. I can't believe you'd say something so stupid (sorry if I sound mean)
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OMG. So would you neuter teenagers, because they have a phase in their lives, where they are strongly attracted to each other to say it the nice way, and neuter all the boys who get into fights, or do stupid things when drunk... Or girls who don't listen to their parents?....
I had lots of rodents in my life (Unfortunately I started late with rats) like 70 or so, and none of them got neutered. Of course the males were sometimes very aggressive under each others, so I spent the entire day after school and all week-ends to build more huge cages and run-outs in my very big garden. All my pets were happy, all of them had character, they lived their lives very good and very long. All of them had lots of ancestors, living happily at other families in the countryside, just like in paradise.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

That is a really uninformed opinion. Plenty of humans get "neutered" per se. We do it quite often in an artificial means; any women on birthc ontrol? I am. I cannot make babies. Guess I'm cruel..to myself?

To think my animals have only one sense, involved in their sexual impulses is ignorant. Most animals (maybe like three exceptions) don't mate for pleasure. It is awful, painful, dangerous. I guess I should have just let my rats reproduce and reproduce because that is all my lovelies are good for.

Someone better tell Remus he isn't allowed to be a hyper squishy rat because he has no balls. I'll go get him off the window, he currently crawled all the way up a tower to play and has been having fun jumping down one way to climb up the other and chasing his friends. But he is just boring and waiting to die. 

I am not cruel to my animals. Cruel is making them go through unnecessary dangerous pregnancies, cruel is keeping them alone in a tiny cage because I can't keep my male with my girls. My dogs are neutered. My cats were. My rat is. My bunny was. Humane Societies automatically neuter and spay pets -- prevent them from creating millions of more UNWANTED UNLOVED pets. Love is to limit the suffering. 

How DARE you suggest I torture my animals. I think you misunderstand what this forum is about. I for one am not happy. I shall let the rats live in their filth, rather than vacuum it away "OMG". How uninformed are you.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Mouse8 said:


> OMG. So would you neuter teenagers, because they have a phase in their lives, where they are strongly attracted to each other to say it the nice way, and neuter all the boys who get into fights, or do stupid things when drunk... Or girls who don't listen to their parents?....
> I had lots of rodents in my life (Unfortunately I started late with rats) like 70 or so, and none of them got neutered. Of course the males were sometimes very aggressive under each others, so I spent the entire day after school and all week-ends to build more huge cages and run-outs in my very big garden. All my pets were happy, all of them had character, they lived their lives very good and very long. All of them had lots of ancestors, living happily at other families in the countryside, just like in paradise.


If you just admit you never had a neutered rat, how can you judge them? Maybe you should learn to keep your opinions to yourself rather than judge us such. I'll be stopping now because I cannot think of one nice thing to say other than a close narrow mind must save you a lot of grief from having your eyes open to reality.


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## Phantom (Apr 4, 2012)

I had many reasons for neutering Pastoolio, one of them being that he was going to live with my girls at the time. Here's all the reasons I can think of at the top of my head:

- The first and top most reason was my girls.
- He is a very high white and I did not want him being used for any breeding what so ever if he were ever to change ownership.
- One of his litter mates passed away due to a heart condition which relates to the reason above, bad genetics.

Don't get me wrong, overall he's a super healthy rat, but I didn't want to risk it for a biscuit should he ever have a different owner. I am going to be neutering Toast and my hairless boy, V, for most for most of the same reasons. I also have a girl whom I really want to keep named Evey (V's litter mate). Needless to say, I don't want any baby ratties unexpectedly popping up in the cage in the future. 

Mouse8, I understand your logic of thinking. My parents have never spayed or neutered any of our animals unless it really did become a hassle or was needed. The only one we did neuter was our cat, who just would not stop marking the house no matter what we did or tried. The only one we spayed was a dog of ours who had rotting ovaries when she was a puppy and needed them removed. Our current dog is not spayed, although she does have her hellish moments when she's in heat, but this is something we have learned to deal with.


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## Crezzard (Jul 20, 2013)

He's obviously a little boy with a very tiny brain who doesn't have any real idea of animal welfare. Maybe we could teach him a thing or two. I retract my statement when I said he should be banned... Let him read the forum and find out what it actually means to care for an animals welfare. As I'm
Typing this on my phone my boys are happily chasing each other around my shoulder and the sofa post opp. Happy rats <3 


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## Daize (Jun 8, 2013)

Mouse8 said:


> I really don't want to be mean, but from my experience and all the good pet-keepers I know, they never neutered their animals, NO MATTER WHAT.
> And all of them had like really big yards, where their pets could run around, climb, have food from the nature,
> 
> and then I met some of the so-called fancy animal-keepers, with their pets being caged and neutered, they use artifcial food, those animals never saw the sun, day/night rhytms, used hairspray/parfums or smoked next to the cage, and all those plastic stuff, television or loud music/ vacuum cleaner ... OMG . And those people are the ones calling others doing animal cruelty (live feeding, wooden houses, natural food, DIY), while being themselves the biggest torturers of all.
> ...


It must be different in Norway. 

In the US "MILLIONS" of unwanted pets are put to death each year in shelters. Even rats, that don't find homes are put to death. Spaying and neutering is the best way to keep the population down and cut back on "unwanted" animals. 

So, spaying and neutering can be considered a "kindness" in regards to "pet" overpopulation problems in the US. 

It's not as common to spay and neuter rodents. Some people choose to keep only one sex at a time. This removes any worry about accidental litters or unwanted hormonal aggression. Others allow their rats to breed and produce babies, for what ever reason. 

It's not about how much a person loves their pet, when it comes to the decision of spaying or neutering. It's about doing what's best for the pet in regards to the situation. 

I'm guessing in Norway there's not a problem with over population of unwanted pets. So, it's probably hard or even impossible for you to understand why anyone would even consider spaying/neutering.


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## Mouse8 (Oct 8, 2013)

Phantom said:


> I had many reasons for neutering Pastoolio, one of them being that he was going to live with my girls at the time. Here's all the reasons I can think of at the top of my head:
> 
> - The first and top most reason was my girls.
> - He is a very high white and I did not want him being used for any breeding what so ever if he were ever to change ownership.
> ...


I understand your points, and it's your good right to neuture whatever animal you want, if you feel it's necessary, If the rat has a heart disease, of course possible litter shouldn't suffer from it. 
But I feel like there are lots of people who are just very comfortable "Oh my rat bites me/it's maybe aggressive/My rat is not tame enough -> Let's just neuter it" .
I did everything for my rodents, I was a kid and built huge cages till midnight or later, as I mentioned, I never was comfortable or lazy by just neuturing them (solving the problem the easy and very cruel way). I think they should be treated as you whish yourself to be treated and with respect, and if you decide to own an animal you should also be willing to put some effort into it.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

There is being ignorant and there is being a bigot. He is being the latter. It is not a cosmetic surgery. It is not one for convenience. These are bloody medical facts that there are benefits. My male will be less prone to many cancers and tumors. Apart from his mate, both were growing haggardly. I have a feeling they could've killed themselves in depression. I challenge anyone to give me proof that spaying my dog has caused her harm, or that neutering Remus was cruel. This cancer-scare in my dog could have been real, but she is low-risk. Any ratters out there with spayed females whose tumors never came back, prolonging and bettering their quality of life? Did you know ferrets who aren't spayed who have a heat cycle without reproduction could die? 

Animal abuse is the mistreatment of animals. Malnutrition. Starvation. Being confined. Unsocialized. Learn your goddamn terms, sir, and try again. I am not cruel. I am not causing undue harm; ****, I'm not causing harm. My male is fine. He is happy. He is squishy and hyper and wonderful and silly. My dog, too, is wonderful. She was a rescue from cruel owners (which, by the way, kept her outside...hmmm....). She hates outside.


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## September (Jul 30, 2013)

Ask yourself the following questions? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . *-Would you like yourself to get neutered?* I would looove a preemptive hysterectomy, considering every single woman on my moms and dads sides for generations now have had to get them. *-And lose your only sense in life?* Seriously? You're suggesting that rats can do absolutely nothing with their lives but mate. That's it. The end all, be all of their existence. You should really educate yourself. *-Lose all your energy and spirit (no testosterone anymore)?* This has been proven not to be true, as many forum members with neutered rats will tell you. *-become someone else, a boring being just waiting to die all your life?* Oops, guess this argument could go for my girls too, huh. I'm absolutely depriving them of everything good in life by not getting a boy rat to knock them all up over and over again until they die painfully because of all the pregnancies, which would of course be the responsible and loving thing to do for them, right? Oh, and I couldn't possibly be a good owner without producing enough babies to have some spares to toss over the neighbors fence for their dog to use as a chew toy or their cat to use for practice, as you did say that was the best way to handle all those bubs, right?


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## Mouse8 (Oct 8, 2013)

nanashi7 said:


> There is being ignorant and there is being a bigot. He is being the latter. It is not a cosmetic surgery. It is not one for convenience. These are bloody medical facts that there are benefits. My male will be less prone to many cancers and tumors. Apart from his mate, both were growing haggardly. I have a feeling they could've killed themselves in depression. I challenge anyone to give me proof that spaying my dog has caused her harm, or that neutering Remus was cruel. This cancer-scare in my dog could have been real, but she is low-risk. Any ratters out there with spayed females whose tumors never came back, prolonging and bettering their quality of life? Did you know ferrets who aren't spayed who have a heat cycle without reproduction could die?
> 
> Animal abuse is the mistreatment of animals. Malnutrition. Starvation. Being confined. Unsocialized. Learn your goddamn terms, sir, and try again. I am not cruel. I am not causing undue harm; ****, I'm not causing harm. My male is fine. He is happy. He is squishy and hyper and wonderful and silly. My dog, too, is wonderful. She was a rescue from cruel owners (which, by the way, kept her outside...hmmm....). She hates outside.


So if someone would neuter you, you wouldn't be angry? You would have less risk for cancer, no bold hair later, you could concentrate better, be more productive and efficient, maybe make career and get rich, would you do it? Tell me?
One the other side, if your pet is very depressive and suffers a lot and you have no other possibility to help or improve the situation, I have to agree with you.
By the way, yes female ferrets have this problem, but there is an antibabypill since several years for those animals available which solves this problem. I had myself two ferrets (one male, one female) and never had problems. The male ones don't need to be neutured, if proper socialized with its owner.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Yes, I would love it. I'm not allowed to get a hysterectomy until 25 or later due to law. I will be opting to get one. We can discuss the reasons for hours, but I will be opting into surgical birth control in four years. I am on chemical birth control which is more dangerous, by the way. I opt for that and have for three years now.
I am not losing anything but future children in that. My male lost nothing but his balls. He is dominant, hyper, silly, and a love. He is spoiled rotten and not at all mistreated except of course we he gets in trouble and gets a boop on the nose I bet he would love to tell you I abuse him. If you think that my male is just a testicle sac, then you need to actually open your mind to your pets and what they are saying. I think it to be a narrow view that animals other than humans are only capable of sex, survival, and satiating food/water desires.

I can hardly understand what you are saying, but if it is saying that only a handful of neuters are not cruelty I think you should find every single one of us with fixed pets and let us know we are cruel and abusive. There are a myriad of them. It is the responsibility of anyone who has found a morally abhorrent action to inform and discourage people from repeating it.


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## Daize (Jun 8, 2013)

Mouse8 said:


> So if someone would neuter you, you wouldn't be angry? You would have less risk for cancer, no bold hair later, you could concentrate better, be more productive and efficient, maybe make career and get rich, would you do it? Tell me?
> One the other side, if your pet is very depressive and suffers a lot and you have no other possibility to help or improve the situation, I have to agree with you.


Do they have Animal Shelters in Norway? Are millions of unwanted pets put to death each year in those shelters? Do people hoard animals and keep them in unsanitary conditions? Are these hoarded animals allowed to reproduce freely? Do people keep so many pets that they could never afford medical care for them? Do people house rats in mixed sex situations and allow them to breed over and over..... Mass producing rats? BTW this surely cuts down on quality of life for the females. The males might be happy, but what about those females constantly having litter after litter??? Do you have people that feed live rats to reptiles and other animals that eat rodents? Are rats in Norway prone to cancerous tumors and other diseases?

There are many reason to neuter/spay a pet. It's not cruel to do so. Sometimes it might be "unnecessary", but it's never cruel. It all depends on the situation. Trying to make someone feel bad for deciding to spay/neuter is pointless. 

I had my girl spayed. She's a lone female that has an aggression problem towards other rats. She killed 2 cage mates and seriously injured 2 others, before I got her. I got her spayed, in hopes, of preventing cancerous tumors later in her life. She was never going to have the opportunity to reproduce and the health benefits of spaying helped me decide to get her spayed. She's happy, active and shows no ill effects from the spay.


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## Crezzard (Jul 20, 2013)

Why is this guy still arguing his point


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## Crezzard (Jul 20, 2013)

http://www.jennifermargulis.net/blog/2011/09/norwegians-believe-spaying-or-neutering-a-dog-is-cruel/


Interesting interview with a Norwegian man 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Crezzard said:


> http://www.jennifermargulis.net/blog/2011/09/norwegians-believe-spaying-or-neutering-a-dog-is-cruel/
> 
> 
> Interesting interview with a Norwegian man
> ...


Keep in mind, everyone reading it, it is a _blog_. It ignored medical and social facts. These same people are saying vaccinations are wrong.


In the wild, rat populations have _none of the same bucks or doe_ within a single year.


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## Crezzard (Jul 20, 2013)

Yeah my point by posting the link was the ignorance of who while Norwegian society xx


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## lalalauren (Jul 3, 2013)

I know this is kind of a moot point given that I've pretty much already decided that I won't neuter Badger, but I took this video tonight...it was a fraction of the scuffle they were having, and this particular scuffle was a fraction of some of the fights that they can have...but can someone take a look at this and tell me that I'm super overreacting with the whole semi-aggression thing?

http://youtu.be/fdJ9OCoasnk

So you can see Badger chasing Athos around in top of the the cage, and Badger not actually being aggressive, but Athos squeaking like a baby. Athos then tries to run and hide from him behind the cage, but is followed. I tell Badger is back off and he does. To me, Athos seems genuinely upset that he been chased. He did a little scared poop too, which he's never done before, which has only made me worry further >.> this was all after 2 hours of free range 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I think it is both. Athos seems a bit of a baby and Badger a bit of a bully. When I had a true aggression problem, the scardey rat would piddle and it's tail would 'wag'. I would start intervening with Badger by pinning him and telling him no everytime he is being a butt.


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## lalalauren (Jul 3, 2013)

Oh my, I'd be pinning every 5 minutes >.> I just wish he'd play with ME rather than pester Athos who prefers his alone time. Thaddius hand wrestles til he falls asleep. Badger loves to climb on me and run around in my jumpers, but he won't play with me. He runs off when I try to wrestle him. I dunno if he wants me to chase him, but I can't get under the cage like he can! I think he wants to play, but I'm not good enough for that according to him


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## Xerneas (Aug 6, 2013)

Just saying, but someone who claims to be an animal lover saying "[In case if they get too many, you can still give the ugly ones to neighbours dog/cat/snake, it's natural, the way of life  ]" sounds suspicious. Probably trolling. The way it's worded ("ugly") is slightly...strange?


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## Crezzard (Jul 20, 2013)

I think he's a troll trying to cause trouble on a forum x


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

lalalauren said:


> Oh my, I'd be pinning every 5 minutes >.> I just wish he'd play with ME rather than pester Athos who prefers his alone time. Thaddius hand wrestles til he falls asleep. Badger loves to climb on me and run around in my jumpers, but he won't play with me. He runs off when I try to wrestle him. I dunno if he wants me to chase him, but I can't get under the cage like he can! I think he wants to play, but I'm not good enough for that according to him
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Oh! I had this same problem. I think he is trying to ambush you intentionally where you can't reach, that's what mine does. Get a piece of ribbon and shake it like playing with a cat.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Xerneas said:


> Just saying, but someone who claims to be an animal lover saying "[In case if they get too many, you can still give the ugly ones to neighbours dog/cat/snake, it's natural, the way of life  ]" sounds suspicious. Probably trolling. The way it's worded ("ugly") is slightly...strange?


I was hoping for sarcasm, but considering he thinks rats should be kept outside and only can mate and die, I assume his understanding of _the fancy_ is wrong. Pet rat owners are in the fancy.


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## Crezzard (Jul 20, 2013)

nanashi7 said:


> I was hoping for sarcasm, but considering he thinks rats should be kept outside and only can mate and die, I assume his understanding of _the fancy_ is wrong. Pet rat owners are in the fancy.


He obviously doesn't understand that where I live in the UK my fancy rats would probably die from cold if kept in the shed, let alone the garden. This guy is really annoying me now... It hasn't helped that I've had a few beers but is love to knock some sense into him... And his teeth into his lungs ;-) xx


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## Daize (Jun 8, 2013)

Crezzard said:


> He obviously doesn't understand that where I live in the UK my fancy rats would probably die from cold if kept in the shed, let alone the garden. This guy is really annoying me now... It hasn't helped that I've had a few beers but is love to knock some sense into him... And his teeth into his lungs ;-) xx
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


He lives in Norway. Things are done differently there. He was raised to believe it's cruel to neuter a pet. He's giving his opinion on how he feels about it. He's entitled to his "opinion". 

We may not agree with it, but we're also entitled to our opinion. 

Even though I don't agree with his feelings/beliefs/opinions about spaying and neutering. I do think he should be allowed to voice them. 

Without differing opinions, life would be rather boring.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Again, there is a difference between voicing an opinion and attacking people.

I have several opinions that offend others that I have come to hold after much critical deliberation; we can discuss these at great lengths if any one desires. I don't think you are morally corrupt for not believing the same thing, though I may think you are wrong.


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## Crezzard (Jul 20, 2013)

Yes I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but did you read the way he expressed his opinion?? 


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## Daize (Jun 8, 2013)

Crezzard said:


> Yes I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but did you read the way he expressed his opinion??
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yeah,
I saw that. Could have been more "PC" about it. Again, it could have been how he was raised. Some people believe it's best to be blunt and to the point. 

Different cultures voice their opinions very differently. 

I could give examples, but I'd have to be a bit "blunt" to do it. LOL. 

I really don't think he was meaning to come off they way he did. I think it just happened. I could be because he feels so passionately about his way of thinking. It's not always pleasant, but it happens. Could also be that he's a bit on the younger side and hasn't yet learned how to express his opinion in an "acceptable manner". Of course, his feelings on the subject are a bit harsh and hard to express in a way that others would freely accept them. 

He might even have felt he was being attacked for his opinion. 

Then he reacted the same. 

Not really sure. I know if the US, spaying and neutering is essential for may pets. Too many die each year in shelters. Mostly dogs and cats, but they're still deaths that might have been prevented by spaying and neutering. Rats are mass produced and treated as food and disposable pets. Rats are used in labs. Some find excellent homes and we do what we feel is best for them. Sometimes this included spaying and or neutering. 

Can you imagine if we lived somewhere, where we didn't have that option? Where it was viewed as cruel and unnecessary? Then to see it discussed on a forum, where people love their rats, like it was better then sliced bread. It might invoke anger in the person that reads it. 

So, even though he could have stated his views better. It could be that emotions got the better of him when he posted what he did.


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## September (Jul 30, 2013)

I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't have been so indignant if he hadn't suggest tossing the ''ugly ones'' to the dogs. My first assumption was troll, as well. It's worse that he apparently actually believes what he's saying.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

I will be closing this thread as I feel as though all (rightful) opinions have been stated and expressed sufficiently in addition to the original post having been fulfilled.

Please remember that we are all here because of our uniting love for our rats and all owners will have their own opinions. We must be careful to not push those on one another and refrain from using harsh terms to describe those with opposing viewpoints.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

If you have nothing nice to say, or nothing to contribute to the original topic, please refrain from posting at all. This goes for everyone.

If you want to continue the spay/neuter debate, I suggest the rants and raves forum.


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