# Figured out what my rat is finally.



## Rhasputin (Oct 20, 2010)

I would post this in the topic where I was already discussing it, but it's locked form some reason, no clue why.

anyways.

I was asking about mink rats.
Turns out I have Havana rat babies.

This ALL MAKES SENSE NOW because I have figured out that their grandmother is NOT an Amber rat, but a Cinnamon with RED. In other words their grandmother is A/a m/m r/r ;D
Which perfectly explains where the havanas came from two generations down, since Havana is a/a m/m R/r

Here's her next to one of her grandchildren, who is A/a m/m r/r Hr/hr










If someone sees a flaw in the genetics, please point it out to me,


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

In those pictures they look beige to me. Thats exactly what my beige boy looked like, hes gotten a little darker as he aged though. 

I've never worked with those genes before, but Havana is Mink combined with the red eye dilute gene aa/mm/Rr


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Same here Ema...I see beige as well.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

lilspaz68 said:


> Same here Ema...I see beige as well.


+1 here. Really looks like beige ???


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## Rhasputin (Oct 20, 2010)

It definitely is confusing. But I'm 99% convinced this has to be the case.
She's a lot darker in the photo than in person. She is very light in person. almost like a BEW.


I am convinced that she must have been where the m comes from, because I am 90% sure the grandfather is NOT where it came from.

If she is m/m and r/r then her babies would be M/m R/r which means that, when I put two of them together, there would be some m/ms and r/rs again, as well as some m/m R/rs which is why I got the Havanas.

I'm pretty sure she's only disguised as a beige.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

I have found beige can be really light, and the lighter they are as babies the better their coat as adults. Heres a pic of my beige boy Finnigan. And again, he was much lighter in person - almost had a blue tinge to his coat. 


















Those babies may be Havana carriers if you are sure on their genetics... but their phenotype is defiantly beige.... as you know beige is black which can mask any color really.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Isabella - very light beige









Tepeu - pearl (mink-based)









Hermes - dark beige, light ruby eyes

















there's a huge range in beige


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## Rhasputin (Oct 20, 2010)

Spaz, a mink based pearl was my first thought. A mink based pearl is. . . m/m pe/pe? pe is Pearl, right? Hmm. . . Would pearling show up on other colours? What would its effects be on. . . say. . . a black rat? I do have some older black rats who almost look silvered.


I realize her phenotype is beige, but I think her genotype is definitely something else. 

What a confusing bag of genetics!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Pearl
aa B-C-D-G-mm Pepe P-R-

as per http://www.afrma.org/ratgenpart3.htm


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## Rhasputin (Oct 20, 2010)

And a cinnamon pearl would have m/m in it.

But a cinnamon pearl isn't supposed to have ruby eyes. So I thought maybe she'd be a Ruby eyed Cinnamon pearl? Because that would lighten her colour even more.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Wow Hermes is very dark... beautiful!! Were the red eyes just from the flash? Thats actually what I thought a Havanna would look like.. although I've never seen one in person and most websites don't have a picture of them.

I think if they were dilutes wouldn't they have red eyes? Again I've not worked with Cinnamon so I can't really comment but I always thought they were much much darker. 
Heres a pic of one of my dilute american blue masked girl....


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## Rhasputin (Oct 20, 2010)

Gaaaah I think we're like one gene away from having this right.

The Red eye dilution wouldn't change the fur colour?
I know she's agouti diluted, and shes just GOT to be carrying mink. She's got ruby eyes. . . 

Maybe there's something else playing a part?

I'll take photos of my havanas once they're older. I want them to develop their coats properly before I throw around pictures.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

ema-leigh said:


> Wow Hermes is very dark... beautiful!! Were the red eyes just from the flash? Thats actually what I thought a Havanna would look like.. although I've never seen one in person and most websites don't have a picture of them.


Ema, just to confuse you more...here is what Mom looked like (this is Chaos, the only one like this and was recently pts with MC)










and Daddy (Zeus)


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

I remember Chaos, it was very heart breaking to read her memorial. What color would you say Zeus is? He can't be beige with red eyes? maybe Argente? 

An interesting mix for sure!!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Chaos was a boy *giggle*, his brothers are all fawns or beiges with dark to lighter ruby eyes but Zeus confuses me...others think he is a champage hooded.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Oh sorry I totally read that wrong, I thought you said Chaos was the mom.. lol. I get it now... momma looked like Chaos!! Well Chaos was a very pretty boy! 

Now I think about it, Zeus could be Champagne or Amber!! Which is basically just the diluted version of beige and fawn! Amber rats do tend to have lighter faces as well, so I wouldn't rule that out for him without knowing his genes... ...and that would explain the red eyes on Hermes... he must be a dilute too!


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## sonoma (May 26, 2007)

I don’t know diddly about rat genetics (everything always looks either beige or blue to me lol,) but that pic of Chaos made me do a double take- he looks my guy Charles’ long lost twin.


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