# ugh my friend is an irresponsie pet owner -_-



## Andyurgay

Irresponsible** stupid phone.




I posted last week about my friends hairless rat having problems with her feet. I never did find out what was wrong with them, she never met up with me so I could look at them. I was also going to give her my old cage and make some hammocks and a fleece cage liner for her. This whole time her rat was living in a poor cage. I dont know what she was originally kept in, but I'm assuming it was a tank and she switched to a single story barred cage after a visit to the vet. I told her id give her my old 3 level ferret cage. Finally gonna giving it to her tomorrow. Hopefully. Her rats tail had rotted off and her feet were swollen and hugely infected from being in the wrong cage, on the wrong bedding. She took her to the vet but the vet only gave her a shot and sent her on her way. I walked her through what she could do until she gets into a different vet. But apparently her rat has healed up nicely now. Thank goodness for that at least.




Anyhow, I had convinced her to get a second rat, a female to go with her hairless girl. Well, I woke up to pictures she text me of a handsome little Siamese male she just picked up *face palm* I asked if she was going to get either of them fixed. She said the store said not to get him fixed. I agreed but suggested she get her female spayed instead. She asked how much that would be. I guessed around $50 (what I was quoted at my vet) and she said she could do that. I highly doubt she will though. She works two jobs and is.. How do I say this? 420 friendly. So her mind is not always where it should be. She had also told me before that she would not mind them having babies if she got a male. I told her why she shouldn't and she said oh, okay I'll get a female. Guess that didn't sink in. So I brought up breeding again and suggested keeping them apart until I get her the cage tomorrow. I explained that some hairless rats have trouble producing milk and she might up hand feeding them all. She just oh, id sell them to the pet store though. I told her you still have to hand feed and raise them for at least 5 weeks. And the pet store would sell them as feeders, which she's fine with. 



Just so many things wrong here. I know she means well and would never hurt her animals on purpose. But she hadn't done any research before getting her rat, during her feet problems and now the male. She is an impulse buyer, as in she sees a cute or strange animal and buys them on the spot. She has a Bengal cat, a snake and one of my baby bearded dragons. Thank god neither of those are as easy to mess up as a hairless rat. I think she may feed her snake live as well. Which I would talk to her about but I want to get her rat situation sorted out first. She's not a bad owner, just misinformed and probably not very mature about it. I'm just so frustrated with it and unless she is willing to talk to me, which is rare and listen to my advice, I worry what will happen to her rats. I wouldn't even have known her rat was having problems had her boyfriend not came and talked to my boyfriend at work and told him. Thank god he did. As far as I know, she was just going to keep her rat on towels, alone and not knowing how to treat her feet. She listens to what ever pet store people tell her and if the vet said just keep her on towels and she will heal, that's all she would have done. Not that she wouldn't want to do more, but because she trusts they know what they are telling her. 




Im at a loss of what else to do. I told her to get online and join the forum and get some help and learn a bit but I dont think she time with two jobs and all those animals. I guess all I can do right now is give her what info I can, help her set up a decent cage and put some pressure on her to spay Peaches. I just had to get this off my chest. I complain about it to my boyfriend but I'm not sure if he understands why I'm so frustrated and making such a big deal about it, especially since she's a mutual friend. But sometimes even your well meaning friends can be irresponsible


----------



## zmashd

Your friend really needs to learn about something called "being a responsible pet owner". If you're committing yourself to taking care of a creature, then you HAVE to inform yourself properly - and by properly I mean do research, rather than ask the guy at the petstore. Gah, I get so annoyed with people like that! On one hand they care, but on the other hand they don't care enough, it seems. Good that you are there to lead her in the right direction! (I'm always giving people directions on how to care for their pets myself... haha)

I must say though, as someone who is very "420 friendly", that has absolutely NOTHING to do with this. Some people are just irresponsible, and I guess a lot of them end up as "420 friendly".
But my mind (and the minds of most other "friendly" people) is always where it should be, and I don't skip on doing what needs doing because of it. 
(sorry to bring up the topic, but I felt the remark was offensive to a certain degree, and I couldn't just leave it)


----------



## Andyurgay

No hun, I knew that comment might come off as offensive and stereotypical. I was also "friendly" (lol) for about 6 years, up until last year after I moved from Socal. I know how it goes. Just didn't want to delve too far into that considering the nature of the forum and ages of some people here. Usually she is a very level headed, responsible and curious person who wants to do her best. But the minute she indulges, all responsibility is out the window. Its chill, relax, I deserved this after working so hard, I can put it off till tomorrow, ECT. And I tried to avoid talking about this but I feel I must explain now. Since she works two jobs each day, she comes home, does her thing and everything she should do after work, like set up vet checks, take my cage, ECT is gone. I'm not blaming her being friendly, just how she reacts to it. 95% of my friends are friendly and none act the same with it. But for her, she simply gets lazy and forgets that she needs to make vet visits or other things after she gets off work. That's HER thing with it. I'm sorry, I could not think of a better way to put it, I'm sorry. I meant no offense or to say that IS the reason or that everyone is that way. Just that SHE is that way after and that IS a big part of the reason. You would understand if you met her.


I agree, she is a lazy person and needs to do her research and I know first hand that most friendly people are responsible and have a great handle on things. But my point in putting that in was so maybe someone who knows what that meant could understand that sometimes, with some people, it really can affect them to the point where their thoughts and priorities are not all straightened out. Which is her case. And my old case too so I see where she is coming from. I just think if you are going to own pets and still be 420 friendly, you best know how to do both responsibly or quit one or the other. That's why I'm so frustrated with her.


----------



## PaigeRose

Ugh that is so infuriating! I would seriously take her rats. A Bengal with rats? My two DSHs show wayyyy too much interest in the rats, I can't imagine a Bengal would ever leave them alone... (although Ive never had one, just from my understanding they're very wild and have a lot of energy, and theyre also gorgeous) and on the 420 topic (coming from someone whos also friendly) my pets, cleaning feeding watering playing, everything comes before that. I dont understand people who let it take over them... cant you wait like one hour before you "chill"? I have friends that are like that but thankfully, they dont have any pets.


----------



## Devyn

That is very, very sad. It sounds like she would house the two together and just keep throwing the babies away, which is stomach-churning. I hope your efforts will change her someday soon. She certainly doesn't appreciate rats as we do; I feel that any rat lover experiencing a 'change in perspective' would enjoy spending that time with one in their company. They shouldn't be kept as a novelty.


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss

PaigeRose said:


> Ugh that is so infuriating! I would seriously take her rats. A Bengal with rats? My two DSHs show wayyyy too much interest in the rats, I can't imagine a Bengal would ever leave them alone... (although Ive never had one, just from my understanding they're very wild and have a lot of energy, and theyre also gorgeous) and on the 420 topic (coming from someone whos also friendly) my pets, cleaning feeding watering playing, everything comes before that. I dont understand people who let it take over them... cant you wait like one hour before you "chill"? I have friends that are like that but thankfully, they dont have any pets.


I have a bobcat hybrid. He eats whole prey but I have no issues with him in the critter room. He didn't even bother my hamster when my husband forgot to close the cage door AND locked Soren in the critter room for the day.


----------



## Gannyaan

Andyurgay said:


> Irresponsible** stupid phone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I posted last week about my friends hairless rat having problems with her feet. I never did find out what was wrong with them, she never met up with me so I could look at them. I was also going to give her my old cage and make some hammocks and a fleece cage liner for her. This whole time her rat was living in a poor cage. I dont know what she was originally kept in, but I'm assuming it was a tank and she switched to a single story barred cage after a visit to the vet. I told her id give her my old 3 level ferret cage. Finally gonna giving it to her tomorrow. Hopefully. Her rats tail had rotted off and her feet were swollen and hugely infected from being in the wrong cage, on the wrong bedding. She took her to the vet but the vet only gave her a shot and sent her on her way. I walked her through what she could do until she gets into a different vet. But apparently her rat has healed up nicely now. Thank goodness for that at least.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, I had convinced her to get a second rat, a female to go with her hairless girl. Well, I woke up to pictures she text me of a handsome little Siamese male she just picked up *face palm* I asked if she was going to get either of them fixed. She said the store said not to get him fixed. I agreed but suggested she get her female spayed instead. She asked how much that would be. I guessed around $50 (what I was quoted at my vet) and she said she could do that. I highly doubt she will though. She works two jobs and is.. How do I say this? 420 friendly. So her mind is not always where it should be. She had also told me before that she would not mind them having babies if she got a male. I told her why she shouldn't and she said oh, okay I'll get a female. Guess that didn't sink in. So I brought up breeding again and suggested keeping them apart until I get her the cage tomorrow. I explained that some hairless rats have trouble producing milk and she might up hand feeding them all. She just oh, id sell them to the pet store though. I told her you still have to hand feed and raise them for at least 5 weeks. And the pet store would sell them as feeders, which she's fine with.
> 
> 
> 
> Just so many things wrong here. I know she means well and would never hurt her animals on purpose. But she hadn't done any research before getting her rat, during her feet problems and now the male. She is an impulse buyer, as in she sees a cute or strange animal and buys them on the spot. She has a Bengal cat, a snake and one of my baby bearded dragons. Thank god neither of those are as easy to mess up as a hairless rat. I think she may feed her snake live as well. Which I would talk to her about but I want to get her rat situation sorted out first. She's not a bad owner, just misinformed and probably not very mature about it. I'm just so frustrated with it and unless she is willing to talk to me, which is rare and listen to my advice, I worry what will happen to her rats. I wouldn't even have known her rat was having problems had her boyfriend not came and talked to my boyfriend at work and told him. Thank god he did. As far as I know, she was just going to keep her rat on towels, alone and not knowing how to treat her feet. She listens to what ever pet store people tell her and if the vet said just keep her on towels and she will heal, that's all she would have done. Not that she wouldn't want to do more, but because she trusts they know what they are telling her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im at a loss of what else to do. I told her to get online and join the forum and get some help and learn a bit but I dont think she time with two jobs and all those animals. I guess all I can do right now is give her what info I can, help her set up a decent cage and put some pressure on her to spay Peaches. I just had to get this off my chest. I complain about it to my boyfriend but I'm not sure if he understands why I'm so frustrated and making such a big deal about it, especially since she's a mutual friend. But sometimes even your well meaning friends can be irresponsible


..... I was wondering what had happened to that poor hairless girl.... I understand your frustration ... I don't have time to post today, but let me say probably she is going to feed the babies to her snake. She is not a responsible pet owner in the least.... I don't know this person, but I wouldn't give her your cage. Sell it and save the money for a vet fund for your own rats , or donate it to a person who I truly in need and will take care of their animals.... Don't give it to someone who treats animals like that. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss

Why is feeding another animal irresponsible? I understand the not breeding a hairless female thing.


----------



## Gannyaan

Awaiting_Abyss said:


> Why is feeding another animal irresponsible? I understand the not breeding a hairless female thing.


Well, she's certainly feeding live or not killing in a humane way. Neither of which I am a fan of to be honest. Also, think about the logistics ... Rats can have dozens of babies per year. How is she going to house them all in the mean time ? You can't just throw a male and female together and be done with it... Something like this requires planning and responsibility. Even if she wants to breed feeders, it's a big under taking. Especially if you don't even have a suitable Cage for two rats, and one of them is wayyyyy too sick to be having babies, and probably will not survive. I don't think a person like that should be breeding anything - feeders or not. I have no issue with owning reptiles, but I have an issue with someone breeding a very sick female , which also indicates to me that she will not be responsible enough to undertake the over 50 babies per year that she will pop out; if she survives.

But that's not the issue ... For me , it's the fact that her hairless females tail was rotting off before she took her to the vet.... And that her lesions on her feet spread ... Honestly all of the people that post on this forum would probably show a great deal of concern of their rats had cellulitis and/or infected bumble foot (just google for pics and you'll see...) ... Not wait until their rat was near septic. 

If you give her a really nice, expensive cage... What will she do with it? I wouldn't support her. She was warned ahead of time to get two of the same sex and did it anyway... Without saying the reason... Could be feeders, could be not feeders... Who knows? Worst case scenario if she is entirely clueless, which she sounds like, She could just let the whole "happy family" live in that very nice size three level ferret cage, and then have hundreds of babies by the end of the year... Oh goody. 

I would not give her a nice cage that was bought with hard earned money until I had the facts, because I would have no idea what the heck she is planning to do with a male and female on the same cage on purpose with zero known game plan. Sounds like a disaster just waiting to happen to me. 




Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss

Sometimes it is necessary to feed live. Most snakes kill painlessly (there are species that do not), and are skilled at it... They've been doing it way longer than we have.

I totally agree though. She seems like she is very uneducated about rats so she shouldn't be breeding them.


----------



## PaigeRose

Awaiting_Abyss said:


> I have a bobcat hybrid. He eats whole prey but I have no issues with him in the critter room. He didn't even bother my hamster when my husband forgot to close the cage door AND locked Soren in the critter room for the day.


Really! Wow. Like I said, I don't know much about wild cat hybrids... only that my DSHs are too interested in my rats to be anywhere near them. You've got a well behaved kitty!


----------



## Gannyaan

Awaiting_Abyss said:


> Sometimes it is necessary to feed live. Most snakes kill painlessly (there are species that do not), and are skilled at it... They've been doing it way longer than we have.
> 
> I totally agree though. She seems like she is very uneducated about rats so she shouldn't be breeding them.


Exactly my point....  


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## cagedbirdsinging

It sounds like she isn't much of a friend at all. You say that she would never hurt an animal on purpose, but here she is, doing that very thing. The excuse for "not knowing any better" can no longer be used as she has been informed and continues to go about her own way.


----------



## Andyurgay

apart from the live feeding convo this has started, I have to say, I am the type of person to give the benefit of the doubt. I believe she is a good person who loves her rat but is severely misinformed. While I agree ignorance is not an excuse for abuse, I am not one to give up and let the rats suffer just because I know my efforts might be in vain. I had horrific nightmares (normal but not usually so graphic) last night about a pet shop with horribly deformed rats. While the nightmares are not realistic, they shock me to the core. I've always had night terrors and to dream that at this point drives me further to want to help. while she is still not a good rat owner, she does try. I made her promise that if she got my cage, the money saved would go towards vet bills or spaying. I told her today was the last day in a week I could bring her the cage. No response. While I can bring the cage anyday, I said that to gauge her responsibility and obviously her rats are low on her list. Which makes me severely dislike her as a person, but I'm not one to take it out on her rats. she seems willing to learn, although has selective hearing. So far she has listened to my advice on how to treat Peaches feet, has gotten her a friend (although male) but said the spay fee could be done.I cannot support her choices, bit I feel like I am the only voice of reason she wants to hear.


----------



## Gannyaan

Andyurgay said:


> apart from the live feeding convo this has started, I have to say, I am the type of person to give the benefit of the doubt. I believe she is a good person who loves her rat but is severely misinformed. While I agree ignorance is not an excuse for abuse, I am not one to give up and let the rats suffer just because I know my efforts might be in vain. I had horrific nightmares (normal but not usually so graphic) last night about a pet shop with horribly deformed rats. While the nightmares are not realistic, they shock me to the core. I've always had night terrors and to dream that at this point drives me further to want to help. while she is still not a good rat owner, she does try. I made her promise that if she got my cage, the money saved would go towards vet bills or spaying. I told her today was the last day in a week I could bring her the cage. No response. While I can bring the cage anyday, I said that to gauge her responsibility and obviously her rats are low on her list. Which makes me severely dislike her as a person, but I'm not one to take it out on her rats. she seems willing to learn, although has selective hearing. So far she has listened to my advice on how to treat Peaches feet, has gotten her a friend (although male) but said the spay fee could be done.I cannot support her choices, bit I feel like I am the only voice of reason she wants to hear.


My intention was not to start a feeding convo , but rather just to point out that having a male and female in the same cage already is a disaster ... And she was warned. This just shows how irresponsible she is. 
I really hope she takes your advice, but sometimes you can't help people , no matter how much you want. Some people don't really want help... You can't really "make" someone promise to do the right thing... It's one thin to give the benefit of the doubt , but there really isn't a doubt here about her priorities and her responsibility ...

Anyways, I hope I am wrong, and I really hope things do turn out well! 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Penelepe

That is just totally disgusting and stupid of her. But I have to mention. And I am really sorry. But Bearded Dragons are easy to mess up health wise. If you listen to pet shops if you buy a dragon. The baby will probably not make it until 1-2 years old. The average lifetime of a dragon is 10 years but if you know what you are doing they can live up to 13-15 years. 

I didn't read all the replies so dont know if it has been asked. But have you called the SPCA regarding the female's health? 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Maddie

I have to agree with some of the other comments. She can be a good friend and not a good pet owner. I actually had a similar experience a few years ago.

I had a friend that is a single parent and has a son with asthma. She got him a Chiuahaha and they had the chihuahua *as* a small boy, and they had the dog about six years. One day she decided to get rid of the dog because it wasn't "potty trained" (in reality she was hardly ever home and the dog stayed in a crate about ten hours. She only took her to pee in the morning and never again after that so of course the dog would tinkle and poo everywhere...not that she cleaned it up). Her poor little boy cried a lot because that was his dog. I didn't have a problem with it at first because she didn't take care of the dog, so it needed a new owner. She did make sure to sell the dog though.

A month later she bought two birds and another dog and then a lizard. Again every time I went to her house these animals were in small cages, let out some but for the birds and lizard she didn't clean the cages. The dog was left to it's own devices. Man, I walked through her house (because she moved and I had never seen it. She was showing me around) and there was literally bird and lizard poo in their beds. It was disgusting. Then eventually she got tired of the animals and sold them yet again for more than she paid, and the poor animals left in bad shape. 

After that she bought a little teacup Schnauzer (I have a Schnauzer and my wife's aunt raises them. We're big dog people and adore our Schnauzers). It broke my heart to see that little puppy live there. Then when they got tired of it she tied it up on the porch without proper shelter or even a proper collar. It would get lose all the time and get into the road. People would bring it over ect. I couldn't stand it, and I offered to take the dog (at the time I couldn't afford another, but I intended to rehome it. We don't have a working animal shelter here so animals are lots of times left to their own devices). She told me no because she wanted to sell it and wanted I believe it was like $400 when I know she paid around $200. I remember telling her that I just couldn't afford on the dog, but if she let me take her in I would spend that amount getting her shots and spayed ect (we also had bad cases of parvo going around and my friend never got the puppy her extra shots after being taken from the breeder). Basically I told her I would do all the things she hadn't done for the dog and then find her a proper home. In the end no one would pay her wild price on it and the dog was hit by a semi. I stopped being friends with her after that since I was just tired of watching her abuse her animals and then flat out refuse to let me help her poor animals.

Someone can be a good friend but not a responsible pet owner. She never did anything to me personally that was awful to make me dislike her or stop being her friend. I just couldn't hang around and watch her abuse animals though. Sorry your friend isn't being a responsible pet owner. The only advice I can give is if things get crazy again try to sway her once more to let you adopt her little ratties. Hopefully she doesn't let the two breed. That could get messy.


----------



## Andyurgay

I think I've just about given up on her. I feel awful about it because id do anything for animals, especially rats and I know without my guidance so far her rat would probably be in even worse condition. But I can't do anything else apart from drop off the cage on her door step one day and hope she listens to me about keeping them apart. But that's probably not going to happen. I haven't heard from her since the day she sent me a picture of her new boy. Even after I text her about needing to drop the cage off soon. She lives literally 2 minutes up the road and id have it set up for her so all she would need to do is plop one in it and leave the other in her old cage till Peaches is fixed. But apparently that is too much for her. I also just got a text today from someone asking if I was still selling my old cage (posted it on Craigslist weeks ago) so I figure I'll just sell it. I'll be getting $130 for it and I'll just put that toward Rascal in case she is pregnant. 

Plus I'm taking in a boy tomorrow that my friend alerted me to a couple days ago. He is an ex test rat from someone's college class. Probably a big undertaking so I'll need the funds. But I could not say no to him. He is skittish, but apparently healthy and lives in my same small town. The test was to see how rats respond to processed food as opposed to none processed. So not a huge thing. I'll just keep an eye on him. Was planning on keeping him in quarantine for 3 weeks while working one on one with him and if all checks out, letting him be with the boys until I can rehome him. He was just being beaten up by the rat he was kept with for the class but otherwise sweet. So I'll use the cage money for a vet check. 
I was so hopeful when I first posted but she has nearly completely stopped talking to me now so I'm done offering help. I sewed hammocks, tunnels, cuddle hammocks for her hairless, made the cage spotless and was going to drove it over and set it up for her even but if she cannot even text me back to give me a time, and ignored my advice on the male, I just have nothing else I can say to her. It sucks. I hate knowing her rats are going to be kept like that and probably bred and sold carelessly. But I guess apart from stealing them overnight, there is nothing else I can do I guess.



As for the beardy thing, I know they can be messed up easily, sorry if it came off the opposite. I just meant that they seem so much more common sense than a rat. I have 6 right now but I've had 5 others. Most lived to 10-12 years. None have had issues except the ones we rescued who were stunted or had eye injuries from being kept on sand too soon. But unlike rats, its basically lighting, not over feeding, knowing how to handle a compacted lizard, good housing, substrate/carpet and food/water, calcium and the occasional shedding issue. As opposed to rats with all of their multiple issues they can have. Beardies have been the easiest pet I've ever had. She she seems to be raising hers just fine. I've seen him pretty recently and he's growing well  thank goodness.


----------



## Gannyaan

You did all you could and offered to help someone in need ... Which means you're a good person.  but you've done all you can short from forcing your aid to her.... As for selling the cage, Just because you are prioritizing, does not mean you are a bad person...

Ex... I used to spend all my energy helping other people who either were just lazy and looking for a crutch , or who truly did not want help... Instead of that, I now prioritize my time and energy to help the homeless and disabled. Also... It's always great to help others, but in order to help them, you need to be in a good position, or you'll end up being he one needing help.
I'm sure an extra $130 in your bank will be a great addition to your rat emergency fund, in case your own babies need you... 

Anyways, "no good deed goes unpunished" 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Andyurgay

No, I know I'm not a bad person. In fact, I've had to make a pact with myself to not get too emotional over some things and quit letting myself get too caught up or involved with certain situations. I started to really wear myself out after high school, taking on everyone's baggage before I took care of my own. But sometimes I catch myself falling back into that and I guess this turned out to be one if those times. I just hate it and get so frustrated that there is nothing I can do. I can't stand seeing something so obviously wrong and not being able to help. I've never not been able to help at least a little. There is a reason I was always someone crutch in high school and after. I just don't understand people that see something wrong and turn their head away. I resolved to never be that kind of person. So I get myself into situations like this :/ 




Regardless, I have not heard from her since she asked me to bring her the cage the next day so I don't think I'll be talking to her for a while. I need to distance myself from it all for a while and focus on my own rats, especially since one might be pregnant and needs my attention. It just would not bother me so much if it was a small thing like a bad cage or if she actually listened and improved the situation instead of making it worse by adding a male. But you're all right. There is nothing I can do now but pull myself away from it and focus my energy somewhere else. It just really sucks and its hard for me to accept. Guess I can just hope it all ends well and if she needs the help again then she will ask me. I'll be there if she reaches out, but I'm not going to reach out myself anymore. My rats need my attention, so I'm giving it to them first





Thanks everyone. I started off just needing to get this off my chest but I guess I also needed a push to remember that old promise I made to myself.


----------

