# Rattus rattus



## Ikamuni (Feb 11, 2007)

Does anyone here keep 'em?

Will the bigger Rattus norvegicus eat and/or kill the smaller Rattus rattus?

Off topic: Is it okay for me to put mice in my rats' cage? Is it okay to let my rats kill and/or possibly consume mice? I'm feeding my rats mealworms occasionally, is it bad?


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## cjshrader (Feb 15, 2007)

I have heard that the two breeds of rat generally will not get along and should not be put together. Am I guaranteeing they won't get along? Of course not. But I wouldn't risk it.

You can put mice in your cage if you want the mice dead.

Which maybe you do based on the second question. Though technically I guess it'd be ok to let your rats eat mice, do you really want to clean that up? I wouldn't. Also there might be too much protein there if they ate mice regularly.

Mealworms are fine, but once again, they should only be occasionally served as a treat and not gotten too often.


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## Ikamuni (Feb 11, 2007)

I was thinking of getting a chance of seeing my rats' wild side. It might be interesting. I've never seen a rat eat another rodent. The most I've seen is a partially consumed lizard body in my hamster's cage(I had one when I never knew rats were better) and I didn't even see the actual killing happen.

Will letting my rats kill affect them psychologically? I mean, will they be aggressive towards me? Or maybe become neurotic? Or something else?


-Edit-
I'm asking because I sometimes catch mice and roof rats with a cage-like trap with an automatic shutting door when something takes the bait. What I do after I catch them is release the captive outside to be "executed" by the neighborhood cats. The cats most of the time "play" with the victim before actually killing it. It may sound cruel but hey, I'm not the one killing.


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## cjshrader (Feb 15, 2007)

Oh I wouldn't give them wild mice. You don't know what kinds of diseases they may carry.

I also imagine giving them mice regularly would bring out a bit more of their predatory nature. Though since I've never known anyone to actually do it on purpose I can't be sure.

My personal advice (And I'm willing to bet this will be the advice of others) is to continue doing what you're doing now. Don't get wild mice or rats anywhere close to your rats if you can avoid it. And generally don't feed mice to your rats at all.


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## Lunachick (Aug 15, 2007)

I agree. I wouldn't risk it. It's not worth it just to satisfy your interest. My cousin had a maze years ago. He put his rat at one end and a mouse at the other. The rat killed the mouse. After that, his rat became more aggressive to other animals. It attacked his cat, which was the last straw for his mom.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Ugh, that's awful!

Personally, since I can't imagine ever live feeding any pet of mine, I can't imagine throwing a poor little mouse in for my rats to attack, because I know they would.

Not to mention I'd probably be ill cleaning up the mess they made.


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

That is horrible, don't do it.

you want to see them get wild and ferocious get a feather cat toy.


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## Zoey (Sep 11, 2007)

How does feeding your rat another live creature, different from a snake owner buying a rat from PetSmart and feeding it live?

That's like people who put their birds in Cock Fights, or their dogs in Dog Fights.....sad. *I know there is not betting involved* but...still - you know your Rats will tear up the little mouse....

I couldn't do something like that, poor little mouse.


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## Fuzz16 (Sep 8, 2007)

at my pet store we get in pinkys and give them to mama rats...they care them as thier own and some of the mice grow up to live in there and we have on now that has been in there for abut 2 months that the mamas protect with teeth and braun. 

or maybe its just when they raise them that they allow mice to live wit them


+++


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## OnlyOno (Apr 4, 2007)

many animals are fine with things that otherwise nature would not allow as long as it happens when they are very young, it's one of those neat little perks of nature. and besides, baby mice look a lot like minature baby rats - like tiny pink mike n' ikes.


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## Ikamuni (Feb 11, 2007)

> How does feeding your rat another live creature, different from a snake owner buying a rat from PetSmart and feeding it live?


Because I'm not planning on feeding mice as a staple. It's like, for once, I wanna see my rats go wild. I've never seen rats actually kill(except for mealworms)


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## MagicalLobster (Jun 30, 2007)

I have a story for you.

A while ago I had two mice. One had passed away, and I had another in an open aquarium (mice can't get out of them. One day my rats found a way to get out. I got all the rats back in the cage, but the mouse was gone. A few days later I found my little mouse chewed to the bone in one of my droors. 



> -Edit-
> I'm asking because I sometimes catch mice and roof rats with a cage-like trap with an automatic shutting door when something takes the bait. What I do after I catch them is release the captive outside to be "executed" by the neighborhood cats. The cats most of the time "play" with the victim before actually killing it. It may sound cruel but hey, I'm not the one killing.


Oh, and I hope the mice that you catch and give to the neighborhood cats bite you and give you some crazy disease that there's no cure for. You're a horrible person for doing that. If I threw you in a lion's cage and said it was okay because I wasn't the one killing you, I'm sure you'd have a moment of realization and not be such a cold cut *******. Excuse me for the flaming, but if you think it's okay to purposely catch a mouse, give it to a cat and expect that you're not responsible for your own goddamn amusement out of it then please see a psychologist.

Getting rid of mice as pests and such through mouse traps and what not are actually okay. Thinking it's okay to torture an animal by giving it to a cat to "execute it..." well that's just effing sickening.

You don't deserve to own rats or any animal for that matter. Jerk.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Ikamuni said:


> > How does feeding your rat another live creature, different from a snake owner buying a rat from PetSmart and feeding it live?
> 
> 
> Because I'm not planning on feeding mice as a staple. It's like, for once, I wanna see my rats go wild. I've never seen rats actually kill(except for mealworms)


That does make it different. That makes it WORSE.

Some people have to feed their snakes live because the snake won't take it any other way. You're talking about killing an innocent little creature just because you're bored and feel like being malicious.

And yes, YOU are the one killing the creature.


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

Ikamuni 

You need to employ brain to sense and THINK for a minute.

Are you or the cats the one wiht the free will?

That would be you.

THINK for a minute... just stop and THINK about what youre doing (or rather, thinking of doing) as well as the fact that you are advocating that SOME life is disposable. And all to satisfy a morbid curiousity? Im shocked and appalled that youve even had the temerity to post this.

I hope the responses that you have received deter you....I HOPE that you will choose to be a more responsible pet owner and less of a curiousity driven hedonist.


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## justmudtrout (Aug 28, 2007)

Well said, MagicalLobster.

I concur 100%.


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## zimmyzam (Sep 9, 2007)

[flame]Geez. That is horrid.

Please. Go play Halo or join the Marines instead. You shouldn't need to take out personal problems on little creatures that don't even have a say in what goes on. Yes, your rat will get aggressive, unless it has an extreamly rare gene of constant mellow-ness. No, you should not toss out mice for the neighborhood cats to use as 'toys'.

My cats bring plenty of lizards to our doorstep. I scare the lizards from their mouths when I catch them eating one, though. I yell at them to no end when they catch a bird. It's not like they're starving-or even eating the things they kill. Just pointless murder, which is much like what you are doing.

And funny enough, it points out how extreamly selfish you can be. You're doing this for your sake, not for your rat's or the mouse's. You don't really seem to care much about another's life, do you?[/flame]


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## Ikamuni (Feb 11, 2007)

Whoa.

I sort of expected these replies but not to this degree.

Anyway, I don't see the rats/mice as innocent little creatures. They're pests. They destroy stuff. If I don't feed them to the cats outside they'll be 1) poured on boiling water to death or 2) drowned or 3) put in a plastic bag to suffocate. The above actions are performed by other household members and they do these because other ways of killing are messy. So I figured, since they're gonna die anyway why not make use of them? It's not like anyone(people) cared for them.

And I haven't fed my rats any non-plant living creature except for mealworms. Well, maybe at least that would sound good to you if you care.



zimmyzam said:


> ust pointless murder, which is much like what you are doing.


1. Ridding the house of pests
2. I get to see a glimpse of what domestication has suppressed

I hope nobody sees me as evil. I'm just a normal guy. I don't do drugs or any other illegal stuff. Is it that bad for me to want to see animals in action?


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## zimmyzam (Sep 9, 2007)

XD YES!! YES IT IS!!

Innywho, I see what you're going for. But the concept of it all is wrong.

My friend used to have a fancy mouse-I can't judge for wild mice. If we have any inour neighborhood at all then the feral cats would've gotten them by now. The rest of the stuff sounds plain disgusting, I see why you opt for feeding them to cats. But it always puts a horrible immage in my mind to see something like Pepper getting put through a blender or cut open by a cat >>

And I wouldn't feed them to your rat. Think, they're probably all disease-ridden and full of bad, bad things. And the left overs... um... ew.... T.T;

Sorry for bashing you on feeding the cats, but I still strongly oppose feeding your rat a mouse.


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## Ikamuni (Feb 11, 2007)

Please don't be sorry. You were expressing your opinion.



> But it always puts a horrible immage in my mind to see something like Pepper getting put through a blender or cut open by a cat


Then I think you're not a fan of the big cats.

So feeding wild mice/rats to my pets would be bad because of the possible diseases. Is there anything "ok" for my rats to hunt? Tracking down mealworms isn't exactly what I had in mind.

Anyway, what's the deal with rats/mice as snake food? Can anyone give me a link to an argument why rats/mice should not be fed to snakes? I really wanna know because some forum members did not react positively to what I had in mind. Maybe they share the anti rat as as snake food view.


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## Lunachick (Aug 15, 2007)

They may seem like pests to you. But the truth is, they are wild animals and they are doing what animals do. Destroy things. Your own pet rats might or might not destroy things as well. I know my own pets do. All of them - cats, dogs, and rats. It's what they do. People destroy things too. Get over it. No one needs to TORTURE those poor little things just because they are being an animal. You can just release them outside. You don't need to hand them on a platter to cats, or boil them in water, or suffocate them or whatever. Let them go outside where they belong and that is that. If you don't like what domestication "has suppressed" turn on the tv to Discovery. Don't own pets. Sounds like you just want to see some animals kill each other and don't want to appreciate them for what they are.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Ikamuni said:


> Whoa.
> 
> I sort of expected these replies but not to this degree.
> 
> ...


They may be pests, but many people view rats as pests. How would you feel if they tossed your rats to the terriers to destroy or somesuch? To some people whether an animal is domesticated or not doesn't matter.

In my opinion all of the actions taken on the mice by you or your housemembers are atrocious, but consider this. Would you rather suffocate in a bag or be bitten and torn apart by huge scary creatures?

Personally I wouldn't want either, but one seems a lesser evil.

And YES, I do see you as somewhat evil. You want to 'see animals in action'. This is no better than dropping two bettas together to watch them fight to the death, no better than fighting two dogs to watch them bleed, this is just... amusement for you. At the cost of a life. You want to 'make use' of these poor little mice. Lives aren't meant to be used.


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## Ikamuni (Feb 11, 2007)

> If you don't like what domestication "has suppressed" turn on the tv to Discovery.


I never said I don't like what domestication has done. If it weren't for domestication then pets would not be possible. And I watch Discovery and Animal Planet a lot.



> They may seem like pests to you. But the truth is, they are wild animals and they are doing what animals do. Destroy things.


Isn't that what makes them 'pests'? I don't know how they get into the house but they do. And, as you've said, they destroy things. If you have the time please log on to Windows Live. I want to discuss some stuff.

About the feeding live rodent prey: Everything I've seen so far is about snakes as predator. I haven't seen things on cats/rats as predators.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

They're predators!

But why find it necessary to indulge that?


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## Ikamuni (Feb 11, 2007)

> You want to 'make use' of these poor little mice. Lives aren't meant to be used.


But they're gonna die one of the less-messy-but-more-painful deaths that people here give them if I don't hand them over to the cats. If a rat/mouse is caught, its fate is sealed. I could only at least make use of its death.



> This is no better than dropping two bettas together to watch them fight to the death, no better than fighting two dogs to watch them bleed


I don't know anything about bettas but I don't like the idea of having two dogs fight *just* to bleed. It wouldn't benefit any of them. I hope you get what I'm trying to say since I'm not really good at words.


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## Pomperella (Jun 4, 2007)

i found a mouse in my living room today - baby one. i thought it was dead as it was still. it was just very weak and petrified. mum must have died. we have a mouse problem in our house but set humane traps and release them far away in fields and other places. i picked up my little mouse after quickly putting my rats back in their cage so they couldn't get to him. I put him on a fleecy blanket in a bird carrier with water and food. he is too weak to eat so every hour or so he has a drop of fresh fruit smoothie in a syringe as that is all he can manage. i'll stay up all night if i have to, just so he lives. i hate to think what his fate would have been in someone else's hands.


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## zimmyzam (Sep 9, 2007)

Bettas are -ehem- Japanese Fighting Fish, Ibelieve. If you put two together in one tank, they will literally fight to the death. Occasionally they both die. How fish fight, I may never know, but hey, it's just cruel.

Oh, I love big cats :3 But to 'awww' over, not to watch them eat >>

I'm not a big fan of snakes eating rodent-but they kind of /have/ to live, and some snakes just reject the dead stuff. My friend had a baby red-tailed boa (once it got to big they had to sell it). The first time it ate it was kind of amusing (since it literally squeezed the pee out of the baby mouse and potty insults were hilarious when I was 8), but after that it was just... gross.

Cats are predators, sure. They're also prey, which makes them pretty unique. But a cat can cat food. I'll see if I can expand on that subject later.

XD CRICKETS! I don't really think, or know, if a rat can eat a cricket, but that would be something he could chase that _isn't related to his own species_. Maybe research up on that?


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Ikamuni said:


> > You want to 'make use' of these poor little mice. Lives aren't meant to be used.
> 
> 
> But they're gonna die one of the less-messy-but-more-painful deaths that people here give them if I don't hand them over to the cats. If a rat/mouse is caught, its fate is sealed. I could only at least make use of its death.


 Drowning isn't more painful than being eaten by a cat. The cat will toy with it and draw out it's fate.

I think you're rather amused by suffering. :x


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## zimmyzam (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree >.>;


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

You also risk having your rats be hurt by the mice, and having disease and external/internal parasites being spread to your rat. ESPECIALLY if you feed them a mouse caught from outside and MORE THAN LIKELY if you feed from a pet store.

That's why most snake owners, or the good ones anyway, advocate frozen.

Like I said, want to see their wild side, get them a feather toy. They tear after those like crazy, no parasites, no mess, no deaths (well besides the chicken, but that was being killed for food anyway), and no disease.


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## Ikamuni (Feb 11, 2007)

> I think you're rather amused by suffering.


No, it's not the suffering that I'm after. I sincerely would like to have the victims feel no terror and/or pain.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Ikamuni said:


> > I think you're rather amused by suffering.
> 
> 
> No, it's not the suffering that I'm after. I sincerely would like to have the victims feel no terror and/or pain.


In that case I'd suggest you drop the idea of letting the poor thing get chased, hunted, and torn into tiny pieces.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i will allow this to continue as a philosopical debate but the first time someone takes it too far or tells someone they should not have pets based on their opinions again this topic will be locked. 

please try to think of this topic as an ethics issue and not a personal "i will or will not do this with my animals". i understnad that the topic has started out that but it has evolved more into a debate about the value of a life. it is an interesting topic with different veiws that can brought to the table. and if we remember to keep a civil tongue and not to directly attack other members (either publicly or through pms) i will leave this topic open to discussion. 

this will be the only warning about locking this thread will have. 

with that in mind i encourage other members to join the discussion


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## zimmyzam (Sep 9, 2007)

Forensic said:


> Ikamuni said:
> 
> 
> > > I think you're rather amused by suffering.
> ...


-nods-

And yes, Twtich.


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