# My rat was attacked by my ball python. Help.



## Tom_The_Husky (Jun 13, 2011)

Hello, I'm new to the forums. From the topic you're probably guessing I'm a terrible owner, you may be right. My rat Otto, who sleeps in bed with me, who goes everywhere with me, who is, in essence, my best friend in spite of my human friends. Otto is the most energetic little thing I know, jumping up and off my bed at night, literally kissing me on the lips(for the moisture) and running away, burrowing, skipping and scampering around, always willing to play a game we came up with called fetch, which is where he just jumps on the bed and I give him a treat and he goes and packs it away and comes back.










I attached some pictures, one of him relaxing in his cupholder in the loungechair I sit in, and what he looks like when I hold hom *now*, after the incident. You can tell in the second photo he is in complete paranoid shock when I pick him up, and note how he holds his feet in due to his damaged nails. Anyways,

I have a large apartment, I had to rat-proof it (duct-tape under the dishwasher, etc), and he has a complete run of the mill. I rarely find rat feces; he goes into his cage to do his business, which I find incredible. I also own a four foot Ball Python I've owned for 11 or so years named Rolf, and he's been staring down Otto whenever he's scurrying around, plotting. I was on the computer, and I heard scratching sounds--it was Otto scratching the top lid of Rolf's glass habitat, he was pushing the screen with his hind legs and plucking at the right lid top because it made noise. As soon as I saw this, I yelled his name and clapped twice and he jumped off.

What I didn't know, is that he managed to actually un-hitch the right plastic tab from the habitat's slid-out top. He certainly still could not have gotten in, but my python, who is very, very big and strong due to me power feeding him was able to stick his nose in the small opening, and from what I'm guessing, is he exploited that small space and used his body to pry the entire lid far enough over so he could get out. He went straight towards Otto's cage (this is where the incident occurred...Otto goes in and out of his cage for water). At this point, I was in the kitchen, when I heard Otto scream bloody murder. My python had bitten him directly on the nose to hold him in place(it was a place-holder bite, not an attack bite, thank god for that) while he quickly curled around him, constricting him to death. Literally within one second of that scream I hit the deck and started to pry with all my strength this four foot behemoth off of him, one coil at a time. I was watching blood come from Otto's mouth and his eye's were about to explode, so I frantically put my finger in the snake's mouth and curled my finger to get his jaws off Otto. The snake started biting frantically as I was still pulling Otto out, hitting me in the arm several times. I finally got Otto out after about 20 seconds of this ordeal, and he limped away as fast as he could to hide behind my subwoofer, where he goes when he's scared. I quickly put Rolf back in his habitat and walked slowly over to Otto, thinking "this is it, he's gone, it's my fault". He was covered in blood, and with a squeak I picked him up to examine him. I gave him a bath with shampoo to get all the blood out and carefully dried him in his towel. He only has one very tiny wound under his Jaw that you can barely notice now. But along with that, two of his nails on his hind legs were torn out from when he was resisting the attack. Normally, when I pick Otto up, just like all rats, they stick their legs out and spread them. Now he tucks them when I pick him up. It's been a few days since the incident and he's beginning to explore more, but he is extremely, extremely psychologically damaged. I could tell he was in pain so I gave him a rat-dose shot of morphine into his belly. That loosened him up a bit and he started walking and exploring more, he even turned right back into his playful self again, but once the morphine wore off, he went back to being shocked and paranoid.

If you look at the photo of him in the palm of my hand, with no fingers holding him whatsoever, you can get an idea as to how mortified he is. I don't know what to do to make him back into the Otto he was before. The Otto that would scamper and play and kiss me and climb the closet shelves to the top, just to jump down and do it again. I really need some help with him medically and psychologically, the bite itself is perfectly fine, it's a tiny scab. Like I said, Ball Pythons tend to use a "grip" bite to hold the prey in place, but when threatened and bite, the bite is much more fierce, so I was lucky. However two of his toenails on his hind legs have been broken out of place, and it causes him a lot of pain that I just want to give him more morphine, but I know I'd just get him hooked. I know he needs time to reassure himself of the safety of the environment he's in, but it's been days.

Please, I need help for my baby. I'm asking you, the experts, what should I do? 


Otto still in shock, days after the incident:








Otto's foot:








A view of his face from a low angle, you can't see the bite mark at all:








However, he *is* making somewhat of a recovery, here's him taking cheese from me.








And he's even eating while I'm holding him:


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

soo... why are you sitting here typing this on ratforum... and NOT taking him to an emergency vet? :-\ if he has internal bleeding or injuries you are not going to be able to do anything...


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## Tom_The_Husky (Jun 13, 2011)

My father is a veterinarian, specializes in gastrointestinal problems in dogs. I had him check Otto out. Like I said this happened days ago, why would I be at an emergency vet? My father checked him out, and he said to check him out further would require scoping and the rat has been through enough -- he and I are both more worried about Otto's state of mind rather than his medical state. The very last thing he needs is to be put through more ****. He has been running around just fine, eating, but he's just simply gets terrified. THAT is why I'm on a rat forum, because people here know rat behavior better than anyone else. I posted this in the Medical thread because if I posted it in the behavioral thread it would probably get moved since he was involved in an attack.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

my apologies, it was not really made clear that this happened days ago until the caption under the picture. easy to miss - you might want to edit your post.

it is just going to take time and trust training for him to get over it, i suppose. if the snake is nearby or its scent is on things it will likely cause him to be on edge... your reptiles really should be locked away in their own private and SEALED room... or the rats.


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## TobyRat (May 24, 2011)

I would be worried about internal injuries. The problems you’re seeing with him may be physical internal problems, as that much force on his internal organs is enough to cause severe damage (especially if the force caused him to bleed through his mouth). The way he now holds his legs seems to be more than behavioral; it may be a pain response from you picking him up and putting pressure on his chest/abdomen but may also be indicative of a spinal cord injury. When he walks do you notice him having trouble with his back legs? Does he have any labored or noisy breathing?


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## Tom_The_Husky (Jun 13, 2011)

No, Otto is breathing perfectly fine. He is able to walk, run, and sprint. The only difference I see in him(physically) is that he keeps his two feet together when they're off the ground, which probably indicates to me that it's the pain from the nails being dislocated from his toes. He did not bleed through his mouth; He bled from the actual wound the python gave him under his jaw. So no labored breathing, when he walks(which is about 90% less than before, he stays put now) it seems he has no problem. But I know for sure he's in pain. He stays in one place, right now he's in my bed under my blanket, I come and give him a kiss and a pet every ten minutes or so. Prior to the attack, he would *never* stay in one place. I'm not sure how to help him with the pain...ketoprofen, morphine dose once a day until his feet heal? I just don't know. What do you think?

and to Jaguar, I shouldn't have to edit my post as long as you..you know, read it. Not just do a 30 second skim and correct a person. No offense intended.

edit: I've spent quite a few hours in bed with him, in fact he got on his back by himself, yawned and literally french kissed me because I had a jaw breaker. He's been on his side a lot too. When he's on his side or his back, meaning when he's not using his back feet, he curls them in; just like if you had a broken hand, you'd keep it close to your body, not dangle it around.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Sorry Tom but there's no mention of vet care in the first post, so just do a quick edit for people. One line would do "the rat has seen a vet, but needs help with getting over the trauma" then we will realize the story is a backstory and look at the more psychological details.

Is the snake still in the room with your boy? Otto will likely stay terrified if that is so. If not, then it will take time, and yes sadly after a situation like this (I take it he was a young bouncy, I am "invincible" type of fellow?), they go through a mental shock, and it might take awhile but he should bounce back. How he is lying with his feet tucked up is often a sign of trust on his part. When you pick up a rat and he tucks his feet and doesn't struggle its a good thing. He's probably bruised and sore still, so give him more time. How long since The Incident?


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## Tom_The_Husky (Jun 13, 2011)

lilspaz68 said:


> Sorry Tom but there's no mention of vet care in the first post, so just do a quick edit for people. One line would do "the rat has seen a vet, but needs help with getting over the trauma" then we will realize the story is a backstory and look at the more psychological details.
> 
> Is the snake still in the room with your boy? Otto will likely stay terrified if that is so. If not, then it will take time, and yes sadly after a situation like this (I take it he was a young bouncy, I am "invincible" type of fellow?), they go through a mental shock, and it might take awhile but he should bounce back. How he is lying with his feet tucked up is often a sign of trust on his part. When you pick up a rat and he tucks his feet and doesn't struggle its a good thing. He's probably bruised and sore still, so give him more time. How long since The Incident?


Otto doesn't "live" in any particular room in my apartment...he has a cage, which is outfitted with toys and hammocks etc, but he just goes in to use the restroom and for a drink of water. He is free about my apartment 24/7, and I have a very large apartment. And you're exactly right, he was Mr. Invincible. But I know the tucking is due to pain, not trust, but you're right in that he trusts me enough to let me scratch his belly while being on his back. It'll be about 72 hours or so at this point since he was attacked. Thanks for all the input guys and gals, all of you, you're a real help!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

I think your little man might need a lot of reassurance. I am not sure he will free-range happily for awhile yet, his wilder instincts of being a prey animal have kicked in and he just might be more timid for awhile. I would hold him more if that's what he wants, tell him he's going to be okay, and you'll never let that happen again. I don't know if they understand us but they do understand tone. 


Does he have a cage at all? You might want to consider getting him one to be Home Base. And shut him in it sometimes until he gets used to that again. If he ever gets sick, or injured in a different way you would need to keep an eye on them, and freerangers might hide when the meds are supposed to be given, etc. It's better to have options. My Overnighters are freerangers for the most part but I do have a cage to put them in when things prevent it or I have a sick little love who I need to watch carefully.

Sadly with the possibility of internal injury, you cannot give many pain meds...tylenol can make bleeding issues worse, ibuprophen and metacam (NSAIDs) can do the same thing. Can your vet dad get a hold of tramadol instead for any lingering pain?


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## Tom_The_Husky (Jun 13, 2011)

lilspaz68 said:


> I think your little man might need a lot of reassurance. I am not sure he will free-range happily for awhile yet, his wilder instincts of being a prey animal have kicked in and he just might be more timid for awhile. I would hold him more if that's what he wants, tell him he's going to be okay, and you'll never let that happen again. I don't know if they understand us but they do understand tone.
> 
> 
> Does he have a cage at all? You might want to consider getting him one to be Home Base. And shut him in it sometimes until he gets used to that again. If he ever gets sick, or injured in a different way you would need to keep an eye on them, and freerangers might hide when the meds are supposed to be given, etc. It's better to have options. My Overnighters are freerangers for the most part but I do have a cage to put them in when things prevent it or I have a sick little love who I need to watch carefully.
> ...


He does have a cage, it's absolutely perfect, with a little box for him to hide in, a hammock, everything. I just leave the door open, he goes where he chooses (which is my bed usually). And that's all I do is talk to him like a baby. "Who's the most beautiful ratty in world, Otto is, yes you are! *kiss*", etc.  I already have tramadol and would never give it to my rat, synthetic opiates = DEATH, usually by serotonin syndrome, mess up a dose with a synthetic on a rat and the rat will have a heart attack. I'd rather inject him with morphine like I did before--if you're going to use an opiate use the right one. Tramadol is a mess of a drug and is just like propoxyphene(Darvocet/Darvon), which just got pulled off the market for, guess what, heart problems. Synthetics cause heart problems and the drug companies that make them never admit it even though there's clear evidence. Never give an animal a synthetic opiate, give him or her a naturally occurring one, or a semi-synthetic. Sorry for the tangent, but I'm the one who recommends drugs for my dad(weird, huh?), and I know them inside out, medical school and using them tend to do that to a person.


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

OMG what a nightmare  

I don't have much for advice, other than to buy a lock for the pythons cage. Honestly, even without the latch having been moved by the rat, pythons can be very good at getting out of cages, especially with some motivation (prey). It sounds like you have the kind that comes with the little hole for a padlock to go through?

I'd probably also now keep the python in a separate room, especially if you plan to continue free ranging your rat throughout the whole house.

I also agree with others that he is probably in shock and to not let him have the whole house until he gets better. Also, no one else has mentioned it, but he really needs a friend. It may also help him to regain some confidence, they are such social creatures.

If you don't want to do tramadol, and can't do the nsaid's like metacam, I have heard buprenorphine is great for rats pain. It can also be given orally.

Just wondering, but why give morphine on the stomach? That's a kind of sensitive place for an injection. 

I hope the poor boy comes out of it soon


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

The problem with opiates is not the drug, its what it can do to rats. Opiates often cause pica behaviour in rats and it can get pretty drastic...which is why I didn't recommend buprenex or buprenorphine...I have seen a baby boy try to eat his own foot that was to be amputated.  If you don't think there's internal bleeding then just get the Metacam/meloxicam and give him some of that, rats tolerate it so well.


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

Ahh, gotcha. My vet gives it for the day of surgery but sends me home with metacam (well, in theory, a full bottle of dog metacam lasts forever lol).


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

i assure you i did not skim it. : the best way to get accurate advice is to be very clear on the situation...

as suggested, metacam is likely your best bet, but it does have blood thinning properties... i would really really recommend an x-ray just to be certain, an external checkup is not enough. seeing as your father is a vet, that shouln't be too hard to arrange? 

what safety precautions are you taking to make sure this doesn't happen again?


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## TobyRat (May 24, 2011)

Jaguar said:


> i would really really recommend an x-ray just to be certain, an external checkup is not enough.


Agreed. 

Like I said, internal injuries are extremely likely. That is not to say he can't recover, but getting it assessed would be a good idea.


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## wheeljack (Mar 17, 2011)

Do you mind answering the previous post about what steps you are taking to prevent this in the future?
For the safety of your snake and rat the snake needs to be a locking cage.


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## Tom_The_Husky (Jun 13, 2011)

I apologize about the delay in my response. First off, I'd like to thank all of you for your help and support, I have great news: Otto's back to his old self 100%, if not moreso. I've given him so much attention that he follows me wherever I go. I took him outside, had him climb in some tree's and walk the on the sidewalk, petted him in bed, give him kisses, bottle-fed him his water, so now he follows me around wherever I go(I believe he thinks that while he's around me, he's safe, and he's right), but he still has the run of the apartment and has been exploring and scurrying around like before. I literally just got up from bed (it's 5am here), I had to slowly remove Otto off of my chest, as he'd been sleeping there for a good six hours, just purring away with his tail tucked. The cutest thing ever. I could feel his little heartbeat and lungs while he slept on me.


> The problem with opiates is not the drug, its what it can do to rats. Opiates often cause pica behaviour in rats and it can get pretty drastic...which is why I didn't recommend buprenex or buprenorphine...I have seen a baby boy try to eat his own foot that was to be amputated. Sad If you don't think there's internal bleeding then just get the Metacam/meloxicam and give him some of that, rats tolerate it so well.


 I agree:


> If you don't want to do tramadol, and can't do the nsaid's like metacam, I have heard buprenorphine is great for rats pain.


I have buprenorphine as well, and I wouldn't give that to anyone for pain. Its half-life is just too long as makes every mammal who isn't opioid tolerant woozy for 72 hours and does little for the pain as compared to full agonists. Not to mention the fact that it's very potent, just one milligram will have an effect on a human alone. If I overdose my rat on Buprenorphine, I'd have to inject him with naloxone six times a day for two days probably, which would be **** for him. For the pain the day before yesterday I gave him a little Heroin (Diacetylmorphine -- hospital grade) from a box of diamorphine ampules that I received from a friend in the UK. Before you go batshit crazy that I gave my rat heroin, do your research on what heroin really is. I Injected it directly into his stomach, so probably 99% of the drug metabolized into morphine anyway. If you're wondering how the **** I have all these drugs, well, I'm not a drug addict, but I have my own little pharmacy in a locked gunlocker in my closet with 153 different medications, ranging from proton-pump inhibitors, antidepressants, NSAIDs, beta-blockers, cholesterol drugs, all the way up to the strongest narcotics(highest being sufentanil, which is used in elephants. A little perc I got for working for City of Buffalo Animal Control). Anyways, after the drug wore off I put a very small piece of a 75 microgram Duragesic (Fentanyl) patch on his tail and secured it with medical tape. He went the whole day without pain, and that's when I knew that it was simply his feet that were hurting him. The patch is off now, he's not on anymore medications, and he's doing fine. What I think he needed was a little time pain-free and a rest. Right now he's waiting for me to get back to bed so he can climb back up on me and curl on my tummy all happy. Now, as compared to before, when he's running around and I come into contact with him, he doesn't have that "oh $hit, he found me!" expression on his face anymore ready to run, now it's a sort-of "hey! what's up?" type deal. When I pick him up without supporting his bottom half, his feet now fully spread out like they're supposed to rather than them being tucked into his body. I literally spent every second of yesterday just spending time with him and giving him everything he needs and talking to him like a baby, and now it's great to see that he's back to normal(perhaps even happier).



> i assure you i did not skim it. Roll Eyes the best way to get accurate advice is to be very clear on the situation...


The very last words on the very last paragraph on my first post were "It's been days". That's pretty much a dead giveaway that you didn't read it. I moderate bluelight.ru, which has more traffic than most servers can handle, and the motto is "analyze before criticize". They don't let anybody under 21 become a lead mod because teenagers like power too much and cause controversy that really isn't needed. Again no offense intended.



> Do you mind answering the previous post about what steps you are taking to prevent this in the future?
> For the safety of your snake and rat the snake needs to be a locking cage.


Again, sorry for the delay in my response. There *is*, in fact a little hole in the front of the slide-out screen for the terrarium that allows for a mini-lock, the types that go on luggage. So what I did is used two paper clips and put them through the hole, bent them around several times to the point where it's impossible for even me to yank off the top lid without removing the metal wire in the front. It's a pain to get Rolf out now to have him bask in the sun with me outside, but it's worth my rat's safety.



> as suggested, metacam is likely your best bet, but it does have blood thinning properties... i would really really recommend an x-ray just to be certain, an external checkup is not enough. seeing as your father is a vet, that shouln't be too hard to arrange?


At this point in time, after it being so long after the attack and seeing the perfect recovery my baby has made, although your advice is perfectly sound, even the most logical step, I asked my dad if we could do more and he sort of shot it off as if I were getting too paranoid about him. I tend to agree with him, like I said the recovery I've seen and how happy Otto is, is enough for me to dismiss anymore consideration for vet care.

I'd like to thank every one of you, lilspaz68, smesyna, Jaguar, TobyRat, and wheeljack(congrats on your 100th post in this thread ). Your concern and advice have really helped me out, not to mention a scared needy ratty whose now perfectly happy. I owe you guys one. Thank you so much!


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

right... all i suggested was you make the first post a bit more clear to avoid my mistake happening again - i was merely trying to help you , and if you didn't notice, i did apologize for missing it in my first response. what more was i to do?

i devote many, many hours of my spare time to maintaining this site - if you had been here for more than a week you would realize that i have put a lot of work in to be at what position i'm in right now.

and consider this a warning - if you want to come here and start trouble in your first few posts, i assure you will not last long here.

glad to hear that otto is feeling better though


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## TobyRat (May 24, 2011)

Very happy to hear Otto is recovering. I hope he continues to do well.


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