# Mainly addressed to breeders/rescuers



## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

I was just wondering (for no reason at all - just a random thought in my head)...

I know how most feel about breeding pet store rats or breednig any rats at all for that matter without the proper training etc. I feel the same way after reading the stories and experiences in this forum.
But what about someone that has either taken in an unwanted ratty or bought one at a store that turned out pregnant and couldnt get an espay for one reason or another (either they didnt know the rat was preggers, couldnt afford the e-spay or didnt know that an e-spay was even possible).
What is your opinion on situations such as those? I swear, I have no reason for asking this other than curiousity.

And while Im thinking about it, just so I will know, is it ever too late for getting an e-spay? Just curious.

Btw, Tica is getting her little hysterectomy tomorrow morning.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Personally, I wouldn't feel as harshly towards them. Now, if they couldn't afford an e-spay I'd wonder how they'd have planned to afford any other vet issue, but I realize that money issues happen...

But I'm not a breeder or a rescue. :lol:


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

I was hoping youd answer, Forensic 
I always enjoy reading your posts and opinions and I value them as well.
Thank you


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## twilight (Apr 20, 2007)

We can't forget that some people (due to religion or just their own beliefs) do not approve of any type of "abortion". That is their own right and I've seen people harassed and personally attacked for it (on different forums, but I've seen it some here too). I personally am for e-spaying under certain circumstances.

Anyway, I wouldn't be harsh so long as they where being responsible about it.


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

A good chunk of the rats with litters that go into rescues were pet store "oops" (well... oops on the part of the person who bought them unknowingly, NOT "oops" on the pet stores).

I try not to hold anything against anyone that surrenders to us (of course, that is often NOT easy, but I try). But to those who end up with pregnant rats/babies due to someone else's negligence, I don't feel anything negative towards. Some people really don't have the resources to handle litters and had no intention of having one. I can respect that. Of course, the best thing would be if they could e-spay, but sometimes that's just not possible. :\

Our last e-spay was done just days before she was due. The vet said she'd have popped within 3 days.


BTW... One day I'll get back to you on that PM.


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

Kimmie - take your time and dont stress over it 
thanks again


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

it would seem that nearly everyone, at some point in rat ownership, will have a surprise litter. if the breeding was done intentionally or through negligence on the owner then there really should be no harsh feelings from just about anyone. things happen in life that just aren't planned sometimes. if an e-spay is an option it should be followed with but i've been in the situation where i just didn't think of it and at the time, even if i had thought about it the cost for a spay in my area was close to $500 and the doctor willing to preform a rat spay at that cost was not at all experienced. i had money for an illness or prehaps one emergency not exceeding $300 but there was no way i was going to be able to afford that nor did i feel safe in handing over my rats for the proceedure. so e-spays are not always possible and with no fault on the owner. and of course there are those that do veiw any abortation as wrong, i am not of that group but it something to consider when dealing with people. i'm rather curious why someone would choose that course so i ask about it but i don't judge, i'm just curious for the reasons behind the choice. 

from what i understand of e-spays is that so long as the rat hasn't already had the babies or in labor its not too late. though if you have a cesarian to have the babies out when the rat is in labor they can spay at the same time.


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

twitch said:


> from what i understand of e-spays is that so long as the rat hasn't already had the babies or in labor its not too late. though if you have a cesarian to have the babies out when the rat is in labor they can spay at the same time.


See here is where my moral dilemma comes into play. Intellectually, I know that as horrid as that sounds, it is STILL INFINITELY better than a litter that no one is willing to take care of or can afford to take care of. Emotionally however, well, thats a different story.

I guess if Im going to continue doing this, then Id better get a better handle on my emotions. Ive been trying to liken it to when my kids were babies and got there immunizations. THe shots hurt them and made them ill, but it was in their best interest to have them, so they did. That may not make alot of sense to anyone but me - Im not sure lol.

We now have a whole room in my house dedicated to ratties and we are up to 20 (rescues). Ive fallen in love with them all and dont want to rehome them LOL. Sheesh. What a sucker I am.


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

> Ive fallen in love with them all and dont want to rehome them LOL. Sheesh. What a sucker I am.


Careful with that.  It's not easy to re-home, but I tell myself over and over that they're better off with good homes that isn't mine. The way I look at it, is if they are in their new homes, that opens a spot up for me to help another rat. If I kept them all, I'd be too full to be able to help.

Sometimes it works.  Though so far, we've rescued rats 60+ (not including the 9 coming in with 2 probably pregnant) rats/mice and only kept 2.  But those are special cases. No, really! 

Also, be sure to have a limit that you can reasonably handle and stick to it. This is VITAL. Being able to say no is needed here, though it's not easy at all. But we gotta remember... We can't save them all.


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

It would help if they werent so darned cute and personable!


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## chrisstrikeagain (Apr 10, 2007)

I'm mixed on e-spay. It a rat was bought while pregnant(unknowingly), then an e-spay is acceptable(in my opinion). 

Where im mixed opinion is when people have a boy and girl who accidently get pregnant(opps litter), then i feel the person should deserve the stresss of babies, because most of the time its their fault. However, i dont feel the babies deserve a low quality life(given away to pet store, or bad home, or feeder). So in that case, id say espay is needed but no ok. And i feel the person should have guilt.

^ a few exceptions to the guilt thing.

thats all my opinion,


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