# anybody interested?!?!



## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

I have 38 baby rats. I was wondering if someone would be interested in any of them. I hold every single one of them everyday and they are all healthy. They are still pretty young so it will be a waiting game. I have some irish (boys and girls) black selfs and i believe some light eyed tans. I live in Texas by the way. I will update the pictures if anyone is interested!


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

oh and hoodeds... :lol:


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

Very adorable! I wish I lived nearby XD


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## JennieLove (Jan 2, 2007)

Wish I could as well :'( they are all so cute!


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## nhatgia90 (Feb 15, 2007)

I really hope you adopted them because there are a ton of rats out there needing to be adopted rather than being bred.


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

actually... most of them are snake food. but hey would you rather me feed the pretty and the more common looking to my snakes? I just thought i would see if someone wanted to get started or add to their collection from someone who actually cares about their rats rather than a pet store. and yes i do care about my rats but i also understand whos at the bottom of the food chain. i spend ALOT of quality time with all of my babies. So if youre wondering if im adding to the cluttered animal rescuers rooms..im not. I came to this forum to make friends and talk about rats and offer some sweet babies other than jsut selling them to snake owners.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

stha, this is a pet forum, please don't come on here and show us pictures of rittens and then tell us that they're snake food.

We all understand the circle of life and what most rats are 'for'. The forum is us escaping from that world to talk to others who like rats as pets.


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

These 2 litters arent snake food. which is why i showed them....i wouldnt be like oh hey would anybody want to have one...then when asked about them be like ohh oops snake food.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

You just said that most of them are snake food though?


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

not out of those babies. Those were bred for quality. hence the reason there isnt just plain looking ones.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

Oh, you have pedigreed rats?


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

you dont have to have pedigree rats for quality. maybe you shouldnt be such an asshole. this forum sucks. very few people on here are actually nice about what anyone has to say. seriously yall need to get the broom stick out of your ass or something. Those of you who did comment nicely thank you very much. by the way you dont insult me but yall should really try new tactics about how to talk to people.


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## JennieLove (Jan 2, 2007)

First of all no one I haven't seen anyone insulting you. All people are saying is that they don't want to see pictures of baby rats who are going to be eaten. I also used to own snakes and I have the deepest respect for both creatures. I understand that "these" babies are not going to be eaten, its just the way you said it (which gave the impression that these where the ones that would aslo be snake food) I'm sorry if anyone has offended you; However, you also have offended some people here saying what you did. I really do hope you understand, alot of people on this forum are here to give advice and opinion, theres no need to say "get the broom stick out of your ass" thats just lowering yourself.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

I hate to break it to you, but if you were to make a post like this on any other forum you would be flamed before you could blink. The people here are VERY nice and VERY tolerant of new rat owners, or people trying to learn.

A rat is not 'higher quality' just because it has 'nice markings' or isn't 'plain', a higher quality rat comes from long established lines careful monitored for any genetic flaws. This isn't done to be superior in any way, but to improve pet rats. Too many get tumors at a young age, myco flairups and other preventable hereditary diseases. 

Believe me, I wasn't trying to attack you, I was simply asking questions because I wasn't getting a clear picture from what you had said. 

With all that said, please try to watch your language, we're a friendly forum with some younger members who don't need to see that.


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## linz_04 (Mar 5, 2007)

In my opinion, colors and markings don't matter ONE BIT. It's temperament and their little personality that makes them special. And all are unique, just like people! I had a very "plain" rat with no special markings or anything and she was the best baby in the world! Not trying to offend ANYONE here, just saying, plain isn't always bad.


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## Rodere (Feb 26, 2007)

Our two oldest girls are from the snakefood bin. We bought them over two years ago now. They are the most well behaved and gentle girls we have, but one is also the most unhealthy. Feeder rats around here also seem to have a high instance in undesirable personality traits, like aggression, shyness, aloofness, etc. Not to mention bad health. We lucked out when we got two that are still nice to this day. We've spent over $600 on one for tumor surgeries and other vet bills.

Quality has nothing to do with markings and looks. Jazmyne, the one who has had and does have tumors now, is a plain hooded rat born of breeding in which quantity, not quality, was the goal. But we still consider her to be a very high quality pet. Because of her personality.

A dumbo we have, which some would consider fancy because of her ear set, is only a quality pet because of her temperment, gentleness, and personality. It has nothing to do with how she looks and her health is not the best either. She has myco flareups and possibly had a stroke last summer.

One rat we had, Astrid, was born from a breeder who bred the wrong way. Not for personality and longevity, but for looks. We never considered her to be a high quality pet because her health is good, but her personality isn't that great. She's very aloof and doesn't really care much about people. She reacts some, but for the most part would rather be left to her own devices.

Quality when it comes to rats is not in how they look, but in their longevity and how they respond to their owners!

This kind of response coming from fellow rat owners.. honestly it should show you what you should be breeding for. You should be glad to have peoples input on what they look for in a rat. It gives you something to strive for. Personality and longevity should be your first consideration in a breeding, not how the babies will look.

There is nothing in these above replies that merrits any kind of language or reaction that you gave. Believe me, on other forums, you'd have been banned or very very horribly flamed. This was nothing compared to what you could have gotten elsewhere.


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

yes, i understand where you are coming from 100% on how it offends you but i love my snakes and you have to understand my point to. I did not mean these specific babies will be fed. So i am sorry for any misunderstading. All of my babies have wonderful attitudes. The pedigree means nothing to me...really. I got into this as pure snake food but i started enjoying playing with my babies and interacting with them and there are snake food mothers and there are pet mothers. You know it happens snakes are in fact top of the food chain but on the other hand these are from the pet mothers. i never intended to make any of you think that these babies were going to be snake food. Which is why i was wondering if anyone was interested in them. liek i said pedigree or no pedigree its the temperment of the rat that counts. Personally i could never feed my 'pet' rats to my snakes.


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## linz_04 (Mar 5, 2007)

Seriously not trying to cause an argument but I'm curious how you distinguish between pet rats and feeder rats. I agree with you about the snake, they are just as much a special pet and they deserve to be treated the best way you can treat them... and if that means rats as food, then that's how it has to be... BUT my actual question is how can you breed rats for snake food and whatever and watch them grow up and stuff but then watch them be eaten? Not saying there's anything wrong with it... I just couldn't EVER do that, whether they were originally bred for pets or for food.


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

no no no more argueing. To be completely honest its tough and i usually have to walk away. I usually choose on their temperments and coloring and health. I also sell/give away some. Liek i said its very tough but i also love my snakes.


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## linz_04 (Mar 5, 2007)

I understand. That's life. We all must deal with it. I have a friend who has 2 snakes and they can be wonderful pets. I love all animals, no matter mammal, reptile, whatever. I don't mean to be causing any arguments. I know you must feed your snakes their natural food, which is mice, rats, etc. I just know I'd never be able to watch a little rat that I watched grow up be eaten! YIKES  I'm a wimp though. I'd cry so hard. I understand that the snakes are your pets just the same as my pets are my pets and you do what you must do.


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

Thank you for understanding. If i grew up with rats my whole life... i wouldnt do it, but i absolutly LOVE reptiles to death well large snakes more (burmese pythons). Im actually going to work with them as a profession when im older. Again thank you for understanding.


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## Sara_C (Mar 10, 2007)

I have no problem with snakes, and i completely understand that they need to eat but i find it very insensitive that you breed both 'feeder' and pet rats, not to mention the gall that you have to come on a forum and openly admit that you feed 'ugly' rats to your snakes. I wouldnâ€™t want that on my conscience. I wouldnâ€™t be able to handle that sort of power over life and death, and I donâ€™t understand how you can claim to â€˜loveâ€™ rats and breed them for companion pets and yet also breed them for food. Itâ€™s one or the other in my opinion, though I realise how difficult your situation is. Your snakes need to eat, yes, but pick one or the other â€“ I donâ€™t see how you can have snakes and rats that you breed for feeding and pets. I could understand breeding them for food whilst keeping snakes as pets, but keeping select ones as pets just seems morally wrong to me. Maybe Iâ€™m just too soft that way. And what happens to the mothers who have to give birth to endless litters of kittens to feed your snake? Is that all sheâ€™s destined to do, for all her life?


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i understand getting attached to certain rats over others and keeping those favored rats as your own pets but what i don't understnad is how you tell the difference between the "ugly" snake food rats and the "pretty" pet ones in your breeding program. if neither are predigreed (by this i mean you have a long list of breeding information tracking back generations) on either breeding set the rats produced from whichever rat mom should be about the same quality shouldn't it? and the ones in your pet program that don't find homes, do you eventually feed them to your snakes? if you do when do you give up on finding them homes?


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

dang. yall dont ever drop things do you? and no its not edless breedings i cycle my females. they get atleast amonths rest before breeding again. which was way different tahn what most of my friends do for snake food. I could aslo really care less if you think i dont love my rats. I wouldnt have them if i didnt liek them.


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## ben123 (Mar 17, 2007)

look this might be my first post but i agree 100% with stha4.I have been reading alot of you post's and some of you people are very mean.i have been a member of lots of forum's but none like this one fighting all the time.calling people down.this is not like most forums.i have 8 red tail boas 6 rats 3 female and 3 male.i also breed for snake food. dont you think you should be happy we are giving the rats a happy life while thay are alive.I dont know about anybody else but i do the kill very quick the rat does not feel a thing.i do feel bad for doing it but thats life most people eat meat and omg people breed the cows,pigs,chicken's for you to eat do you fight with them and tell them its not rite come on.. try being nice understanding that we are only trying to feed our pet's..
so if you eat meat kind of hard to dissagree.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

Ben, what we're having the problem with is the fact that she can choose who lives and who dies by who is 'pretty' or 'plain', not the fact that her snakes need to eat. We understand that yes, she probably does love her rats very much.

As to giving them a happy life before they die? If you feed live (as I get the impression you do, correct me if I'm wrong) it is torture for the animal (be it mouse, rat etc) not to mention risking the health of your snake. So maybe thy live 2, 3, 4 months great, but the end is the fear of smelling the snake, a natural predator, and then the pain of being squeezed to death. 

As for the meat eating fact, I don't know about you, but I don't keep pet cows, then decide which I'll eat by grabbing the most plain one and sticking my fork in him....


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

This is a forum of PET rat discussion. If someone comes here and talks about rats as food then people tend to get fiesty because they only want to talk about rats as pet rats. I'm sorry but I do agree, in other forums you would get flamed like crazy and I havn't really seen anyone get 'mean' except for your defensive nature.

That being said, I do like it when people breed feeders as oppose to pet stores breeding them. They tend to have a higher quality of life, as oppose to all those poor rats shoved in the same tiny cage that is barely clean being bred over and over and inbred constantly just to produce quantity to sell. It's heart breaking and I do love it when people do it over those dumb companies who could care less.

But still, it's a general consesus that we don't want to hear about rats for food. We have a full grown corn snake that could eat baby rats but we choose to feed him mice and he is perfectly fine with that. I still never will watch it, as it's my boyfriends snake but yeah NO RATS are getting fed in this house.

Please just listen to people. If you were a real business person you couldn't make business very long by looking at any constructive critisism your potential customers dish out with 'you're mean!! GO SHOVE IT!' NO, you can't do that to your customers. Just listen and try to improve your breedings by keeping records and RESEARCHING more or don't breed pets at all. Really there are enough rats out there with the need for a home that you don't have to.


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

oh hey reachforthestars you are the main one so dont go saying you know everything i do you have never even had a conversation with me. and im on numerous other forums as well and nobody ever jumps on their back like this. i do not choose feeders by plain or pretty. its size, temperament, and health. Thank you very much Ben. RFTS sits here and claims how all they do is help when actually THEY are the ones who call me out on everything. yes i understand this is a pet rat forum and i came here to learn more than i already do. I wouldve gotten flamed either way and all of you know it, and why? Because you all think i have careless breedings. NO i plan everything out and i give my females resting periods thank you very much i know whats going on with each and every one of my rats. atleast they get proper care while they are alive. You sit here and claim "oh but every rat is special" then the next minute you dog the rats who dont have pedigrees...why because they dont have a slip of paper? you are kidding me. Those rats could be skiddish and mean OH BUT THEY HAVE A PEDIGREE...... If i didnt want to learn more i would leave this forum in a heart beat but there are SOME good people on here.


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

and no i do not feed live. That could cause harm to my snake and it is torture and a painful death for the rats. You clearly do not know one bit about me. I have never fed live and i choose to keep it that way.


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## linz_04 (Mar 5, 2007)

sorry you have gotten so angry. Snakes eating rats, mice, etc. is part of life. I agree with you 110% about the pedigree stuff. It's like people that say purebred dogs are so much better than mutts.... WHY?! I don't understand what is so different in a purebred dog and a mixed dog... same goes for rats. I have NEVER had a purebred ANYTHING or ANY animal with a pedigree and I have loved every single one of my pets with all my heart. Just the same as I'm sure you love your snakes as well. I had lizards that ate crickets, kind of the same deal there. That's the way the life cycle is. I'm glad to hear you don't feed live, just as long as they are humanly killed and don't feel pain. I'm sorry for people being so jumpy on you, I'm happy you tried to join a forum to help LEARN how to better care for your rats. Honestly, I don't see a problem with you breeding your rats the way you do, they don't need to have pedigrees to breed in my opinion... unless you plan on becomming a breeder for selling them or whatever that entails. I'm glad you're doing your best to keep your rats and your snakes happy. I hope you continue posting on this forum because I value everyone's opinion. You've obviously had your fair share of experience with rats and can post about things you've been through, tried, etc. and help the rest of us and we can try to help you.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

stha, you're right I've never had a true conversation with you, but I never had a problem with you until you jumped down my throat for asking an honest question. I don't see how I'm 'the main one' as it appears many other people hold the same views. Is it because I was the one to ask the questions? Again, you were insisting that these were 'quality rats' and I was merely trying to figure out how you came to that conclusion.



stha4 said:


> not out of those babies. Those were bred for quality. hence the reason there isnt just plain looking ones.


So you've said earlier you don't decide who lives or dies by looks, but what else are we to believe when read comments such as the one above? From your posts we all came to the conlusion that these were merely just 'pretty' feeder rats. I still have yet to be proven wrong on that...

As for not helping, I stand by my previous statement. This is a FABULOUS forum with GREAT members who go out of their way to help educate new owners. If we see something we don't agree with and that isn't beneficial for rats, *yes* we will mention it, because we care about each and every rat.

Do you have careless breedings? Again, we can only go by what we have seen presented here to us, and I personally think that having 38 babies with no homes found before hand is more than irresponsible. A proper breeder finds homes before hand, infact, their rats are so in demand there is often long waiting lists. 

Every rat *is* special. My two girls were from the feeder bin, and I couldn't ask for more fabulous rats. They're licky, cuddly, bruxy, bouncy girls who keep me on my toes every minute of the day. But if I had the choice between another feeder bin rat or a pedigreed rat from a quality breeder you can bet I would take the pedigreed rat. What I wouldn't give to know there were no tumors in the lines that appeared before two years old! 

I agree that not every registered breeder is perfect, in fact yes there are some downright awful ones who don't properly develop lines or socialize their babies, but over 90% of them are wonderful, which is a better guarantee than a backyard feeder breeder. I've had the pleasure of rescuing a group of 6 rats from an improper breeder, and this weekend will be taking her last female. 

My live feeding comment was directed towards Ben, as he had mentioned the kill being quick and the rat not feeling a thing.


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## STUgirl55 (Feb 6, 2007)

My only concern is whether you keep the rats and snakes in the same vicinity. They should be kept very seperate, otherwise it's very stressful for the rats, and you'll end up with bad temperments out of pure fear, and the females can become extremely aggressive around their kids.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i'm thinking some of us (or at least me) have different ideas of what exactly is a predigree for rats is. with dogs it basically comes down to a simple sheet of useless paper unless you want to show the dog for prizes. with rats its different entirely though its called the same thing. 

a predigreed rat means that the line of rat has been well researched. with all rats health records. theorically you can start a line with any two rats, these rats are no different then feeder purpose bred as you can not really know what to expect health/temperment/or longevity wise, having no information on these subjects of the parents or grandparent or siblings of the breeding pair. 

but after that fist litter the predigree starts. you keep in touch with the owners of the babies and make sure you keep a record of any illnesses that arose. for example, i had a couple pet store surprises and though i never purposely bred or had any intent to breed the mothers again afterwards i kept in touch with as many of the new owners as i could. i have learned that ALL of spider's babies are obese (as well as herself) leading me to believe that obesity runs in that line. and though i have not encountered it obesity can lead to diabetes. i have also learned that A LOT of the babies have had issues with tumors (PTs in particular) resulting in their death before 2 years of age (though spider is now 27 months old). her sister, who also had babies at the same time has had at least 3 with strong temperment issues and 4 more with mild ones (along with herself) and a high incidence of mammory tumors in both the females and males. based on this information i would discontinue the lines (had i been breeding) as neither mother produced healthy, long lived and in snicketts case, particularly pleasent dispostions (not all had temperment issues, some were VERY sweet. those with the temperment issues did not have issues servere enough that they could not be handled or loved but they did need specail understanding). 

my having this information would be the START of a predigree. so when i asked if your pet breeders had predigrees i was asking if you had a background on them (which is rat predigree). did you know what temperments or health issues the breeding pair's parents, uncles/aunts, grandparents/ great uncles/aunt etc etc had and how far back did it reach? that was what was meant when people asked about the predigree. at least that is MY understanding. and having explained what a predigree is, can you tell us anything about yours or are you just at the begining of one? 

i would also like some of my previous questions answered as well as i'm genuiely curious. do you have specfic mothers that you breed only for pets and others only for feeders? if you do what made you come to that decision with the mothers? if you don't what factors do you take in for deciding which rats go as feeders and which are pets? also what do you do with pet rat babies that do not find home? do you eventually feed them to the snakes? if you do how long do you look for homes before giving them to the snakes? 

now please, don't get in a huff again. i COMPLETELY understand that your snakes have to eat and that the rats are food for snakes. i personally could not feed a snake a rat (i'd have trouble feeding a snake period actually) but i also don't have snakes for this reason. i understand that you love your snakes and that they need to eat and i'm not jumping at you for it. i'm just curious as to your practises when it comes to breeding your rats.


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## linz_04 (Mar 5, 2007)

hmm.... quite interesting. I learned a lot through your post twitch. I have never bred any animal (I adopted a pregnant guinea pig once by accident) and that's as close as I've ever been haha. I don't know anything about it and assumed it was the same as dogs... thank you for clearing that up. I was pretty wrong in what I thought it entailed and your post makes a lot of sense.


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

I am really not upset i completely understand why you all think it is wrong or whatever you think i am doing is wrong which is why im trying to explain myself. 

To answer your questions. I do not have specific feeder moms and pet moms. The feeders depends mainly on their attitudes towards people and other rats and health as well. I actually trade out bloodlines with some of my close friends who also have snakes and breed rats the same way i do. We keep meticulous notes on basically everything that takes place with our rats. We do this 'trade' to keep from inbreeding. We note who and who are related. I also have other friends who want them as pets. People who i teach how to properly take care of rats and let them play and pick whichever baby they would like. The main thing i focus on with my rats is that they are clean fed and watered and socialized everyday. 



Another question asked (well its not a question really but) NO NO NO waaay do i keep my snakes anywhere near my rats. Snakes have very good smell. That would be like asking the snake to bite me...they would constantly be in feed mode. 

I DO do my research believe it or not i know alot about my animals. After all i plan on working with large snakes as my profession when im older. Ive grown up with snakes and I have bred rats liek this since i was 12 years old. Another thing I do this all on my own and all of my animals are taken very good care of. I love animals more than i love people. and im appauled that you actually think im doing something cruel. There is no pain for my rats. its not like i sit there and let my snakes torment them or squeeze them to death. Reptiles is where i excel but i love all animals in general. Snakes really arent that bad. They have to eat just like you and me and hey if i could make them up a salad i would but they eat rats. I have burmese pythons (gets up to 20 ft long). Right now my biggest snake is 10 ft she eats large rats and rabbits the others are smaller. Im not trying to get an uproar started im jsut trying to help you understand more. I dont think this was ask necessarily but i know it was mentioned someone feeds their boyfriends corn snake mice. Corn snake only get up to about 5-6 ft max. and they stay very slender. Therefore mice is a suitable meal for them. Another reason other than meal size is that rats are more nutritious.


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## linz_04 (Mar 5, 2007)

I definately think you have A LOT of knowledge concerning animals, especially snakes. You couldn't own such a big, exotic snake without having proper knowledge and done research about it. that would be just asking for trouble. I'm with you... I love my animals (maybe a tad bit more than I love people even) I'm glad you care so much for all the animals you care for, whether they are pets or for food. I know a lot of people actually LIKE watching snakes eat live mice/rats and I think that's just horrible. I don't know how you could claim to love any animal if you like watching a poor little thing suffer like that. Anyway, I'm off topic. After reading everything you've said, I think you're doing a fine job with what you have. You take good care of all your animals and that's what matters most.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

I own 2 snakes and have never breed my rats for food, i end up buying mice from our pet store. Even then i have a tuff time feeding them but i love laying out in the sun with them. So i understand where your coming from and i also understand how some people don't like the idea of posting about feeder rats which i agree but it was said these little ones are pets right? no harm in that. I however also understand the breeding non-ped. rats but their born now so why should we get worked up over it? 
I love the little ones bte .


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

Thank you very much for seeing that. Im really not a monster guys honestly. I know I am not like most 15 year olds...i actually think about my future and i like learning alot. Heck what 15 yr old GIRL would have a 10 ft burmese python haha... I think everyone should have a little knowledge about snakes and why rats are good for them exc. A 10 ft snake eating a mouse is like you eating a jelly bean....it wont fill you up. I look out for the well being of all of my animals, my snakes have to eat as well.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

Thank you so much for your reply. It was civil and well thought out, a post that I was hoping to recieve from the beginning. I still think you've got too many babies at once, and I don't like the way you select but I respect where you are coming from.

How many rats in total do you have (adults I mean)? Would you be interested in showing us pictures of you rat setup?


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

I have two males and 4 breeding females. I also have 2 hairless females and an 8 week old red eyed white female who is strictly a pet. Ill post pictures tomrrow of everything. Their set up is a rat rack that i built with cement tubs. Its pretty spacious and can fit up to 5 rats in it. Well i dont stick that many in there. They all have 1 2 or 3 in each tub. The for the babies i have a weaning station which is wire cages and aquariums to seperate by sexes. I know the rat rack may seem harsh to yall but there really is alot of room for them.


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

Here is a few older pics of some of my babies.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

Sound spretty neat . i'd love to see pics of the actual rack, to get an idea of how it's set up. Do the rats have their own room? I figure witha 10 ft snake, you must have a whole room for them.


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## linz_04 (Mar 5, 2007)

Your hairless is ADORABLE!!!


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## Sara_C (Mar 10, 2007)

> I wouldnt have them if i didnt liek them.


No, you wouldn't have them if you didn't have snakes that needed them for food.

And not to be picky, but you shouldn't really keep your rats on shavings. It's very bad for thair airways, not just because of the phenols but also because of the dust. Maybe try something like carefresh? Or yesterdays news?


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

Ive read on here about other people keeping their rats on shavings. Now do i have to deal with you too? 

Oh...and another thing. I got my first 3 rats as pets. NOT snake food. Again...maybe you shouldnt say something that you havent even asked.


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## STUgirl55 (Feb 6, 2007)

Sara isn't being mean, she's just telling you what's true. Pine and cedar shaving are extremely bad for any small pet. They only sell them because they're cheap. Even ripped up newspaper is better, or carefresh, meadow hay (though that makes my guys sneeze, it depends on the rat.) yesterday's news is good too.

Also, and don't think I'm attacking you here, the grain mix you have in that bowl isn't good for them either. Particularly, the dried corn in it. Dried corn is bad for rats because it can contain mould and it can make them very sick.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

I second what Sara and STUgirl have said, pine is not good for little rattie lungs. Aspen is the only wood shavings that are safe for rats. I personally love Yesterday's News, it controls the smell really well and isn't overly expensive, though it will cost more that pine shavings.

Corn can lead to obseity is rats, and like STUgirl said become moldy. A really great mix that I and alot of other rat owners use is called Subee's Mix. This website tells you how to make it http://www.ratsrule.com/diet.html. Plus it's actually quite a bit cheaper than store bought diets . 

Please don't jump down the throat of anyone who points out something potentially harmful to your rats health, we're just trying to help you give them the best life possible. You said yourself that you're here to learn.


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## Rodere (Feb 26, 2007)

I'll have to agree with what has been said about the bedding. Pine and cedar can harm their respiratory tract and cause lifelong problems with breathing. And thus anyone who adopts from you could be getting a rat with health problems already.

Aspen is what I use for my rats, but I also use Yesterdays News occasionally. I have avoided CareFresh since I didn't like how dusty it was once they added color to it. 

Why do you get so upset every time someome makes a suggestion that could ultimately help your pets and even your feeders? Personally I don't agree that you breed your females as feeders if they aren't healthy enough to breed as pets. It's my opinion that you shouldn't breed any animal with health problems. 

And from what you've said, I assume with a feeder rat has a daughter who is particularly nice, because of her disposition you'd breed her as a pet. And thus her offspring and even she herself could have health problems stemmimg from the 'feeder' mother. From what I've read, there is no different truely between your feeder rats and your pet rats, it is just more or less a labeling of your opinion of whether or not it is just a feeder or worthy of being a pet.But my main problem if your attitude when people are genuinely concerned about your rats well being and health.

And to direct you to a good list of what you shouldn't feed your rats here is a link to a forbidden foods list that you should read. http://www.petratscanada.com/forbidden_foods.htm

Here is what it says about corn
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dried corn --It can have high levels of fungal contaminates which can lead to liver cancer. A little fresh corn is fine.


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

If you read what i said....those are OLD pictures i dont feed grain liek that anymore. I DO NOT HAVE AN ATTITUDE. Have you even read any recent posts from me? I have said over and over again i understand. can i not ask a question abck is that how im having an attitude? I am more than willing to take advice. jsut not how you throw it in my face. Her post didnt make me mad. I understand abotu the bedding.... but her saying i dont care about my rats? NO i do not understand her saying that. How is she to know that? Shes making assumptious from what she thinks she knows. She hasnt asked me questions about it. Maybe the proper way to go about saying something liek that is if it is true. I dont have a problem with any of you at all. Like i said i am more than willing to take advice, but the way you all 'say' something about it comes off as rude to me.


> No, you wouldn't have them if you didn't have snakes that needed them for food


HA^^^ If that was so wouldnt i jsut feed all of my rats to my snakes?


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

stha, calm down please. This is what people mean when they say you have an attitude. Anytime someone tries to help you you get very defensive. I personally spend a large amount of time working on trying to say things in a way that won't come off as offensive, because I know that won't help the situtation. When we talk online many times what we say is taken in a different way then intended, mostly because we can't hear the tone in people's voices or see the expression on their face. No one here is trying to be rude, but it seems like your looking for reasons to jump up and defend yourself.

What I got from her post is that she was refering to your earlier comment about getting into rats because you had snakes that needed to eat. 

I don't question your love for your rats, I know you just need to learn to care for them better. Why not start by explaining to us what you feed them and the type of bedding they are now on?


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## stha4 (Mar 15, 2007)

Okay well i have been trying to tell you all countless times im not getting an attitude about things im just having to explain myself over and over again when its basically the same thing over and over again. This thread has not made me mad at all because everyone has a right to have an opinion and im lookign at this as a way to grow. Does that makes since? I guess people are thinking i am being very defensive, but in all actuallity im really jsut trying to explain things?


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

stha4 said:


> Okay well i have been trying to tell you all countless times im not getting an attitude about things im just having to explain myself over and over again when its basically the same thing over and over again. This thread has not made me mad at all because everyone has a right to have an opinion and im lookign at this as a way to grow. Does that makes since? I guess people are thinking i am being very defensive, but in all actuallity im really jsut trying to explain things?


can you not see how that could come off as you be defensive?


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