# Dwarf rat experience?



## MimiSkye (Feb 3, 2014)

Hello! I currently have 3 rats, two of which are dwarfs. I got my first rat (Penelope) in September, she is a dwarf, and then I got my second one (Olive) a couple weeks later, she is standard size. Then just this week I brought home the second dwarf (Lulu). She is a little tiny baby, smaller than a mouse! Anyway, Penelope, my first dwarf, isn't much smaller than Olive (the standard sized one). She is probably 2/3s the size of a full grown female, which is pretty big for a dwarf. 

But this new baby is so small, the breeder said her litter was one of the smallest shes ever had. She is still a baby so it is hard to tell how big she will grow to be, but I assume it will be probably 1/3 the size of a standard female.

She is currently in quarentine, but I'm wondering, when it comes time to introduce them, how will I know she will be safe with the other two? She is SO small, even if they play wreslte she could get seriously hurt. I'm scared to pick her up sometimes shes so fragile. Right now, even if I was to introduce them, she couldn't stay in the same cage (critter nation) because the bar spacing is too big. Right now I have her in a 2 story hamster cage.

I have also read that sometimes introducing dwarfs can be difficult cuz the older rats may think she is a mouse or something. Does anyone have any experience introducing a dwarf? Both of my older girls are very sweet, I can't imagine them not taking well to her, but how will I know when it is safe to leave her in there unsupervised?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I've never owned dwarf rats, so I can only speculate. If she is terribly tiny and your girls are in excess of 3-6mo, then they may see her as a baby and adult females do NOT like babies. I do not think they would mistake her species altogether -- come on, rats seem smarter than that. So, you'd have to do bar-to-bar intros, then intros for multiple hours (like immersion) with you watching closely. Then, you would preferably be able to sleep near their cage so as to watch them for a couple hours in it before going to bed and being able to listen for trouble.

But, I will say, usually the baby thing is less about size and more to do with behavior and scent. So, if she seems old enough to deal with an attack and defend herself she's good for intros.


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## MimiSkye (Feb 3, 2014)

Yeah haha I assumed they are smarter as well but when I read the sticky about dwarfs they said sometimes adult rats may see them as mice.

Thanks, sleeping next to the cage is definitely gonna make me feel more at ease i didn't even think about that. My older girls are currently in my bedroom so I'll just bring the babys cage upstairs when she is ready. 

The baby is only probably 5 weeks, I am not sure exactly I forgot to ask the breeder but I picked her up two days after she was ready to go to a home, so I assume she is as young as possible. I'm not necessarily worried about a fight because when I introduced my older girls to eachother it went as smooth as possible. Neither of them are excessivly dominant so I am more worried about the size difference. I jsut don't know when I will feel comfortable leaving them alone together, just because if they play with eachother the baby could easily get hurt. I guess I will just have to wait it out.

It's hard having dwarfs cuz theres not many people who own them and I have so many questions. And I definitely wasn't prepared for the baby to be THIS small. Since Penelope is pretty big for a dwarf I assumed she would be like a younger version of her, but Lulu is just so tiny i'm worried sick that she will get hurt!


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## JoshDeMott2010 (Aug 25, 2007)

How small is the baby? Measure her length? Maybe get weight if you have a gram scale. I think your girls will take her in just fine as long as she's not sickly and ill. Also if the cages spacing is too big then maybe you could get some pvc coated hardware cloth for em =D


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## JoshDeMott2010 (Aug 25, 2007)

P.S. I had a dwarf and when he was 5 weeks he was wrestling and playing with a large male rat... They are quite flexible and may not be as fragile as you think...


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Some way to reassure you. My Remus lived with his kits while neutered. He is hyper and dominant and loves to play.

Food fights: http://i.imgur.com/45LMpoN.jpg
Free range: http://i.imgur.com/LiEMrYM.jpg http://i.imgur.com/yQFe6jE.jpg

I have tons of pictures of the babies with Daddy. Rats aren't co-parents in the wild, so it just had to be he was smart and gentle.


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## MimiSkye (Feb 3, 2014)

Heres a couple pics to get an idea of the size difference...Lulu (left) and Penelope (right)...they are in similar spots on my arm so you can kinda see the size difference. That picture of Penelope was when she is 5 months. As of a week ago, Penelope is 10 months and weighs 212 grams. I'm not sure about the baby tho. She feels like she doesn't weigh a thing! Not measuring her tail she is probably 2-3 inches. Very very small.

And thanks for those pictures!! I feel like the second pic is more like what their size difference is gonna be. Surprisingly I am more worried about Penelope because she is the older dwarf and is much more active than lazy Olive. Even though Olive is much bigger she seems a lot more gentle and easy going.


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## JoshDeMott2010 (Aug 25, 2007)

This is my older girl Juliet with one of my new girls her name is Charlotte. The size difference here is quite a similar gap and as you can see they are just fine and wrestle all the time. Juliet has taken to them well and treats them like her own pups... It all depends but i don't think size will be the most important factor.


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## MimiSkye (Feb 3, 2014)

Yeah, that looks normal, but this girl is waaaaaay smaller. Probably half the size of Juliet! Granted she will probably grow to that size eventually, but I can't keep them seperate for THAT long. But I hope you are right about her not being as fragile as I think. I am a worrier for sure. Lulu hopped off my shoulder the other day and landed pretty hard and I nearly had a heart attack! Shes a daredevil, I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up running the cage!


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## JoshDeMott2010 (Aug 25, 2007)

I think you should trust the older girls to take care of Lulu your trust is very important. Just let them all meet whichever method you feel best with, the only advice i can give you is to give it a try and let them all meet you never know they may all become a very tight mischief and the one you may need to worry about is yourself hehe =D


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## MimiSkye (Feb 3, 2014)

so true, thanks


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Fuzzy Rat was the best trained and most calm rat I've ever worked with and she resisted freaking out when we brought home a pup, right up to the point the pup tried to nurse on her... up to that point she kept staring at me and ignored the pup, then she just lost it and started tossing the pup around like a rag doll. When Amelia first saw Max she grabbed her and ran off to kill her, punching a nasty hole into her side.

Female rats don't tolerate pups from another mother or pack. It has nothing to do with how well trained they are or how calm they are, they just can't help themselves....

Now, at about 6 - 8 weeks old and the young rat can fight back and respond appropriately, you can do introductions.... I don't know if it's a size thing or a maturity issue. At about 6 weeks old when Amelia and Max met again, Max pounced right on Amelia and returned the nasty bite as soon as they came into contact, Amelia was a lot larger, but Max was faster and more agile. Amelia got bitten a few more times, but the two eventually worked out their differences. Poor Amelia, she's such a simple rat... With roomies like Fuzzy Rat and Max, she's spent whole her life being outsmarted and outmaneuvered.

I'd try and wait as long as you can to do intros...

Best luck.


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## evander (Jun 30, 2013)

Lulu is tiny and adorable - it was nice to meet you guys on Monday!!

When you are comfortable your quarantine time is up I would handle Lulu a bit and then put her in her cage - then handle your other girls so they can get used to her scent - you can also put some of her bedding or toys in their cage and watch their reactions.

When you are ready to try them in the same same cage have a few paper towel or toilet paper tubes in there for her to hide in that they won't be able to fit into - then she will have someplace safe to go.

My introductions between my 6 month olds and my new babies went very smoothly!! I came home from work and they were all in one pod sleeping.

Lulu is probably closer to 8 weeks - the breeder is very protective of her babies.

I agree with PP these dwarfs may be tiny - but they are tough little rascals!!

I think one of my boys is Lulu's brother! I don't have tons of experience but feel free to pm me anytime!

Small world!! 8)


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## MimiSkye (Feb 3, 2014)

I just introduced them yesterday, and things went very will with olive, but penelope was a little rough with her, and i think it was because she tried to nurse? She kept trying to crawl inderneath the older girls and Olive was fine with it, but Penelope went nuts! She kept kicking at her! Things settled down though and now they are fine  Still can't keep lulu in the same cage though, the bar spacing is too wide hah!

It was nice meeting you too! Yeah I wasn't sure how old she was, and after a week I ended the quarentine, she seems like she takes great care of her rats and both my girls just got check ups so I knew they were healthy  Your babies are so cuteee. Yeah cricket is lulus brother, so adorable


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## evander (Jun 30, 2013)

She is tiny!! 

I have never quarantined her rats - and knock on wood been fine - she treats her rats and her clients really well - so no worries there. The 8 I have from her are all super sweet!!

Hopefully Penelope simmers down - maybe she was in heat - that can make them a little feistier than normal.


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## MimiSkye (Feb 3, 2014)

Yeah that would make sense, Olive is spayed so maybe that has a little bit to do with it? I think Lulu is just a cry baby, I'll see her antagonizing and then penelope will just walk toward her or grab her and Lulu will start wailing. Shes clearly not hurting her, I think it scares 'Nelop more than anything lol. Shes like a crazy little toddler it's so cute. 

After meeting your naked boys I reaaaaally want one. Sooo cute! Glad to hear they're all doing well


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

Babies in general are more noisy and over react I find  

They will squeal more/louder ... They eventually grow out of it... Of course, still keep an eye on them when you hear it ...  


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## evander (Jun 30, 2013)

I love my naked rats!!! I think she has 1 or 2 left 

I find that some of mine are cry babies and others I don't think have ever made a sound. Interesting!!

Hope they settle in soon!!


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