# Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATE:New pictures finally!



## Nenn

First, I just registered here, so Hello everyone!

Ok so I rescued 3 rats couple days ago... and it seems that 2 of them are pregnant 8O . Melody has a big belly and you can see her nipples, her tummy wasnt this big couple days ago. Now it looks like that Sassy my other rescue rat also is pregnant , her nipples started to show, and her belly also has grown.
People have told me that it would be ok to put a friend for melody since she is pregnant , you know to help her out. So I put sassy there, and then realised that both of them are pregnant. Is it ok to keep 2 pregnant rats in the same cage?
I only have 2 cages, one cage where all of my other rattie ladies are at the moment, and one where Sassy and melody are. I also have one small hamster cage witch is WAY too small for a rat. 
I'm so worried for my little girls  
Thank you in advance

*EDIT: Scroll to the end for.. BABY PICTURES!*


----------



## DFW_Rat_Luvr

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Hi - I dealt with a similar situation a few weeks back. I run a rat rescue and a girl was surrendered...24 hours later she had 13 babies. 2 weeks after that I had a 6-8 week old girl surrendered and a week later she had 2 babies - never knew she was pregnant.

Dont get me wrong, the babies are adorable but this is way harder than I ever imagined...and as many of us that there are that love ratties, its so hard to re-home them.

Consider an e-spay...just consider it. Just in cages and bedding alone I have spent HUNDREDS of dollars already.

Good luck to you, no matter what you decide.


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*



DFW_Rat_Luvr said:


> Hi - I dealt with a similar situation a few weeks back. I run a rat rescue and a girl was surrendered...24 hours later she had 13 babies. 2 weeks after that I had a 6-8 week old girl surrendered and a week later she had 2 babies - never knew she was pregnant.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, the babies are adorable but this is way harder than I ever imagined...and as many of us that there are that love ratties, its so hard to re-home them.
> 
> Consider an e-spay...just consider it. Just in cages and bedding alone I have spent HUNDREDS of dollars already.
> 
> Good luck to you, no matter what you decide.


I know its not going to be easy. But the pregnancy is already showing, and I think Melody will be in labour in a week or less, not sure about sassy yet, she doesnt have as big belly as melody. 
E-spay? (sorry im from Finland, and Ive never heard of that term before , possibly cos we talk in finnish  )
The re-homing part does worry me a bit, but a ratty breeder friend(Who is currently abroad :evil: )of mine will be taking some of them.
and I will keep atleast 3 of them.

I just wanted to know if its "ok" to keep 2 pregnant ratties in the same cage, since I dont currently have money to buy a new cage. Im getting 2 jenny ferplast cages and a ferplast dune on 23rd day though ( thats where my money went  ) Thank you for the reply though DFW


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

it can be good & it can be bad

I'll try to explain (taking note that english isn't your native language)

Some rat mothers are ok with having another mother with them, some aren't. This is were you have to watch them very carefully. Sometimes a mother becomes very protective & she may harm the other adult. Or maybe she can be very possessive & she will take all the babies. On the other hand, sometimes 2 mothers will share the responsibilities of a combined litter. I've seen this many times. You just never know, you will have to determine this as things progress.

Now the thing about mixed litters... you will not have a clue which baby goes with which mother. This may or may not be a problem.

As for the cage. You do not want the mothers to be in a cage with levels. They could attempt to carry the babies upstairs & this can be dangerous.

You can use something as cheap as a plastic storage container as a temporary nursery. I believe I have a photo of one somewhere. (will edit this post to show a nursery set up used by many people)


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*



A1APassion said:


> it can be good & it can be bad
> 
> I'll try to explain (taking note that english isn't your native language)
> 
> Some rat mothers are ok with having another mother with them, some aren't. This is were you have to watch them very carefully. Sometimes a mother becomes very protective & she may harm the other adult. Or maybe she can be very possessive & she will take all the babies. On the other hand, sometimes 2 mothers will share the responsibilities of a combined litter. I've seen this many times. You just never know, you will have to determine this as things progress.
> 
> Now the thing about mixed litters... you will not have a clue which baby goes with which mother. This may or may not be a problem.
> 
> As for the cage. You do not want the mothers to be in a cage with levels. They could attempt to carry the babies upstairs & this can be dangerous.
> 
> You can use something as cheap as a plastic storage container as a temporary nursery. I believe I have a photo of one somewhere. (will edit this post to show a nursery set up used by many people)


Even though English aint my native tongue I can speak it rather well, just dont know ALL of the fancy words 

The cage I have has one "level" . I built the cage myself  Ill find a picture of it in a sec. I would really appriciate a picture of a temporary nursery 
Melody has had one litter before. She had a friend with her last time in the cage ( I called the ex-owner and asked about melody and sasse :evil: it appears that she purposely made them pregnant . I originally rescued them cos she was going to feed them to snakes since she got bored of rat breeding....I just dont understand the idea of making them purposely pregnant and then after some convincing(not to give them to snakes and give em to me )gave them to me without telling it. blegh)

I would appreciate more opinnions of 2 pregnant ratties together in the same cage.
And thank you ALOT for your reply Passion 

EDIT: Seems like I dont have a picture of the cage I have for the 2 now, but its 120x70X40 CM .


----------



## DFW_Rat_Luvr

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Im glad you got a quick reply 
THere are lots of really knowledgable people on this site - I know theyve helped me out of a jam more than once 

Good Luck!


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Thank you DFW, Yeah ive noticed that there is alot of nice and knowledgable people on this site. Read alot of posts here, and been spying this forum for sometime now


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

I can't find the picture... I posted it on a thread on this forum but I can't find the darn thing now.

I'm sure you have the big plastic storage tubs in your area.
something like this:









Since you said you built your cage this should be an easy project for you. 

The bins I have seen constructed... the lid had a square section removed & then covered with hardware cloth (the galvanized cage wire) & additional holes where added along the top of the tub part of the storage container. This is easily done with a drill or with a soldering iron (hot tool that you can stick through the plastic to melt it)

I'll keep looking for that pic but maybe this offers a general idea for now. You sound creative.


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Hmmm, Thank you Passion.

I think I know what to craft. I was thinking of making a nursery cage from a plastic storage box yesterday, but couldnt find any "near" me.. I live in the middle of now where currently, and I have 3 hour walk to town ( dont own a car!). Moving back to the city in week or so 
I hope that the cage I have now will do for atleast a week *sob*


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

yippy, found it


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Ok I found a picture... looked the wrong folder first.
This is old picture, the upper cage is a ferplast jenny which is no longer attached to the bigger self made cage. so its only the cage on the bottom now. Also I removed the "hammock" near the door, the red thing. And the plastic bottom of the ferplast cage.
The cage still has the other level thats built in the cage and cannot be removed. ( the cage is hard to clean, and only has one door  thats why am getting new cages )


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

you definitely want to restrict the expectant Mothers to a space that won't allow them to carry babies up ramps & stairs & such


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

This is what Julia was talking about...had to wrack my brains, since I lost all my good rat info links recently...

http://www.dapper.com.au/articles.htm#cage


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

hehehehehe...


look up about 3 posts, I had to burn a few brain cells myself trying to find that photo

I actually have a few set ups like this as emergency transports... I do have to be prepared because of hurricanes


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

I really dont know what to do now.
Cant get those plastic boxes near me, I would have to walk 3 hours to the damned town, take a train or a bus to the city (1 hour or so) and then try to find a shop.

I do have a hamster cage http://www.dabners.co.uk/cdview/dabners_images/IMG_0674.JPG like that
without the accesories. But I think that thats way too small for even one rat to stay couple days before my Ferplast dune comes  
All though, I could in theory take away one "shelf" from my ferplast cage, that I made from a little bigger hamster cage... but still its small. Im gutted


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Do you have a good vet who would spay a rat nearby? An e-spay is an emergency spay when a rat is pregnant. They can do them almost up to the birth. One week out isn't bad at all. Two litters when you are already strapped for cash, and have no cages etc...its horrific to think of! 8O 

I did one ooops litter and it was expensive, and very very time-consuming. I never want to do that again.


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

This is a rare occasion ... Im not usually short on money. Just took my dog be put down cos he had a tumour in his mouth and it had spread(he was 11 years old and vet said that it would of not been good idea to do a surgery ) So Most of my money went for the medicines for my doggy (trust me werent cheap). 
I dont feel comfortable to get my rats e-spayed. I want to atleast give the little rittens a chance to live  and ive heard that spaying is risky for the rat.
I do have a vet friend of mine who told me that I should let the ratties be in the one cage together. Since I explained to her that the girls dont spend much time at the level , and she said that its rare that the mother would take the rittens up there as long as I dont keep anything on the level, and also that since im not keeping the rats in the cage for long. She is coming over at sunday with a dune 
I have alot of food for my rats (Suparat, eggs, chicken, different kind of veggies, meats, plus baby food which is recomended by lots of breeders around here 
So I have everything else but cash, and a spare cage / storage box.

EDIT: edited a typo... 8O


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Melody is giving birth now I think 8O shes licking her... umm downunder and "sitting" in her nest *panic*


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

that cage you showed with the link will work in a pinch... take out all of the shelves

The mom is not going to need a lot of room since she will be sitting on babies for up to 18 hours a day for the first week

This will buy you some time even if you are having babies as I type

As for the "mom won't take them upstairs/that is rare"

You'll just have to trust some strangers on this... it does happen, it is not rare & the consequences of not heeding the warning being offered can result in the injury or death of the babies that you so want to give a fighting chance at life.

The cage you showed, the small hamster cage will just have to do but you need to get mom in there before babies arrive... moving her after is not advisable because it can stress her & she may (I stress MAY) abandon the litter.

Keep us updated & good luck


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

So I should just take melody out and move her to the other cage? but but shes in labour 8O *more panic*


----------



## CaptainFlow

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Oh my! Well, if it's the best you can do, just give her a lot of nesting materials, high protein food (cooked eggs, yummy things like that). Watch her closely, but not so closely she gets freaked out. 

Looking at your cage, if you could somehow block off the connection between the top part and the bottom part, that should help keep babies off of ledges. Your vet friend is probably right most of the time, instinct is strong in animals and dropping babies off ledges isn't good for survival. But you never know if she's going to decide some less than ideal spot is where she wants. 

Watch her closely to see if she gets annoyed by the presence of the other female if they're still together- you might have to remove her if she's getting in the way or making mommy nervous. 

Good luck! And we want pictures of the rittens!


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Well, She was just getting ready I guess, no babies or even trying 
I moved her to the smaller cage put alot of nesting mats, she has lots of food, fresh water, cooked egg, porridge mixed with lotsa stuff  and suparat food. 
I just hope and pray that Sassy doesnt start labour before i get 2 dunes from my friend. There is noway I can currently close the ledge in the bigger cage, so i just have to wait , and if sassy starts labour I got to take the cage self off the girls cage. *panics*
oh yeah, and should i put some cottage of some sort for melody in the cage ? just thinking cos she might climb on it, the drop aint far though

Thank you everyone for nice and helpful replies.


----------



## twitch

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

little huts like a tissue box or something similar are often appreciated by mothers. they will put their babies in there if there is enough room. so long as the hut isn't huge with a big drop it should be fine. if its made of cardboard she may use some of it for the nest itself, which is fine. 

have you checked with friends and family to see if they have an old tank or bin you could have? that may solve the problem there. you'll want something with solid sides or very tiny bar spacing until the babies get older. when they're pinkies you don't want them to roll out of the cage and when they're fuzzbutts you don't want them escaping. solid walls will also keep any drafts away from the babies. 

good luck with the litters. i hope everything goes well and you have small litters to find homes for. please keep us updated.


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Thank you twitch!

I placed melody to the hamster cage *sob* until I get the dunes from my friend. I have everything else sorted, but I just wasnt quite sure about the big cage that I had the 2 girls stay in.

I also placed a soft blanket on top of the hamster cage so there wont be much draft. 
I did ask my friends and family who lived close if they had anything from aquarium to storage boxes, but without any luck... most of my friends are scared of critters 

I just hope everything goes well and that I get a small litter. *hugs everyone*


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

last bit of advise at the moment


Take a deep breath & relax

The rats could very well pick up on your nervous energy. Nature has programmed them with the knowing what to do... your only job is to make sure they are comfortable, safe & well fed.

Don't disturb Mom

Rats _typically_ give birth in the overnight to wee early morning hours so get your sleep & you will most likely wake to the sounds of little eepers in the morning.

Don't rush in to change bedding either. Just make sure she has plenty of tissue or shredded paper towels to make her nest & then after a few days, if you feel you must, take out a small amount of the most soiled stuff & put in some new bedding & let her arrange it herself.

You can do this every day, just small amounts & then hold off on a complete cage clean until their eyes are open to be honest. I've seen moms who will pee in one corner & you can just scoop out that one spot... I've also seen moms who pee all over their babies & well... you can't take them out & give them a bath.

See what you can do about getting those tubs. Maybe a neighbor who is going into town can give you a lift. If not... look around the house, maybe you have something you can use.

You are doing fine...

the real fun with cages is about 5 weeks away when you will absolutely have no choice but have to separate the boys from the girls.


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Thank you passion.

I wont be having problem with the cages after 5 weeks. since im gettin 2 more jenny cages 23rd day.
I just want it to be sunday already I feel horrible to watch melody in such a small cage.
am going to relax a bit and go take a walk . I really appriciate everyones help 

Edit: typo's


----------



## Hippy

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

hahah, I was just about to say, what about in 5 weeks when you need to separate the now sexed babies!
You have been given a lot of good advice and as long as you fallow it, I'm sure you'll do great and have lots of nice babies.

Don't forget to send us pics! 
Its always just a simple request.. 
... o-o"


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

No babies yet! melody is just laying there, havent touched her food . I put fresh cooked egg for her aswell in there 
And of course, when the rittens are born ill post piccies ^^... meaning when im brave enough to touch them 8O


----------



## Phobie

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

I just wanted to say I think it's excellent that you're asking for help, and I think it's equally as excellent that help is so readily available.

So basically well done to you, Nenn, for being so responsible about your ratties pregnancy..

...and thanks everyone else for being awesome.


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Thank you for the kind words phobie 
and yeah, thank you for everyone being a great help, I would of probably paniced more and messed something up without you guys 

I hope Melody will labour soon, am so excited sametime terrified. I think am going to try get more friendly with her, since shes not quite tame yet  
Shes currently laying on the cardboard box and staring at me!


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Ok , I dont think im going to take her out of the small cage. I did give her scratching, but then I saw a little bit of blood in the cage... So ill let the lady be . Maybe the time is soon :mrgreen: *excited*


----------



## BlueSkyy

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

good luck with your girls and their babies!
wish i was closer to you so i could steal a few from you


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Thank you bluesky! I would be happy to give you some babies if youd live closer ^^ 

this is melody couple days ago. was going to post it earlier but forgot


----------



## BlueSkyy

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

oh she's so pretty! is she black or chocolate? she looks almost like a really dark brown color on my monitor, but maybe my color is off, lol. i bet she will have beautiful babies


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Silver-black / european berkshire  she looks more blackish in real life than photos

And oh my god shes finally eating! 
Made mad porridge, vegetable , meat , egg mix for all of my rattys  ..no wonder some of them are a bit fat


----------



## jellybeanqueen

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

wow, melody's gorgeous!
good luck...i hope everything goes well! :wink:


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Thank you jelly  and yes she is a queen!


----------



## Stephanie

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

oh my she looks just liek my Bill!!! such a cutie!


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

No eepers yet on melody, but Sassy is dangerously building nests all over the main cage... time to take out the bigger hamster cage 8O

Edit: both of the girls are on their own nursery cages now! I got some storage boxes from the ex-owner cos I had a go at her


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

good for you!


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Indeed. They look happier much happier now than in the hamster cages !


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

very good you have better homes for them during this time

but good for you about having a go at her, bravo

Honestly, she ought to come up with a small financial contribution toward their care until they are rehomed. If she suffers no consequence to her irresponsible behavior then she will most likely repeat it.


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

I dont think I want anything else from her... I dont even ever want to see her again... I mean what kind of a person just gets bored of their own "babies" and decides to feed them to snakes and put down the older ones... -_- 
So im just going to ignore her and let her be. I already have contacted the Animal protection law facility thingie(dunno the english name for it  ) and told em about her and her little habbits.

also! still no eepers! Melody havent drink anything which worries me. I put some cucumber in the cage since they contain alot of water...if she decides to eat them  

I think they are both mad at me for putting them in the hamster cages and then moving them to plastic boxes (which are big but still) :?


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Ok... umm I think I got another problem. Im hearing eeping sounds from the main cage... I had 3 rats from the previous owner... and she said only 2 of em MIGHT be pregnant. Well Bell was big girl... and I though she was only fat, didnt look pregnant.. but now im freaked out like ****. I tried to see if there was anything but she is in a hammock type bag thingie in the cage and she was aggressive, as in I let her smell me and she nibbled my finger and made a small cut... but uhh im really in trouble and freaked and oh man...even when im writing this im hearing eeps *panic*


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

give them time... change is stressful for rats because they rely so much on smell & familiarity in their environment.

Once they relax, perfume their new digs & become accustomed to their surroundings they will relax & you may find a pile of pinkies eeping.

You don't really know when they became pregnant or at least you have not mentioned this in the posts so far. 

Just give it time. In my experience the rats really don't show until just before they drop. If these girls are young & not physically mature then maybe their small form is causing them to show early. Optimally the female should be at least 250 grams or even closer to 300 grams before becoming pregnant. (I think I read that on rat guide)


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

uh oh... sounds like you have more babies


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

They are not young (http://ratforum.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=4831.html ages are here).
Im in big trouble now. My parents ( I live at home am 19 ) are furious, they were ok when I told them melody was pregnant, they were mad when Sassy showed to be pregnant, and now that bell laboured the babys they are VERY mad, and talking about murdering my ratties -_- 
Spaying is not an option, they said they aint paying, cos it was my fault(dont currently got money). So yeah... im in trouble


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Well, My dad said that he is going to put down some of the babies(he used to breed mice and rats when he was younger). I dont wanna do that, but I got no choice since I peeked at Bells litter second a go and did a quick count... there was 16 rittens. im such a cry baby. Am gonna go for a walk and clear my head and think of an better solution or something


----------



## twitch

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

bell will calm down and when she does get in her another tub like the others. you may have to have a go at the previous owner again. and where you are now responsible for 3 litters and it has caused some serious strife with your parents i'd have an extra go at to make her pay for a spay or two on the other girls. or at least pay something. you'll need the money, especially now that your parents are so aggressive about the whole thing they are unlikely to help. even if she won't pay at least you'll be able to vent some and she deserves it. 

to help with the parents. first, let them calm down some. then have a calm talk with them on how this is not your fault. you did not know they were pregnant when you accepted them but now that you have them you have to be responsbile and keep your promise of caring for them as best you can. most parents try to teach their children this so they may recognize that their efforts have worked in rasing a responsible young adult. 

then you'll need to explain to them the cost of a spay vs the cost of a litter. you will have money again so maybe you can go in debt with them, like a loan sort of thing. the next money you come into goes directly to them until the bill is payed off. and i mean all of the money. you're living at home so you don't have bills, there's would be the only one you'd be responible for. 

if they say, they to just kill the animals instead, bring up the responsibilty thing again. it would be irresponsible and disrepectful of life to kill an animal because its previous owner was irresponsible. 

if they say they don't have money for a spay, that's fine but make sure you do explain that a litter is more costly and you already have one. and that until you come into money you will need to rely on them for the cost. again, say that once the money comes in you will be paying the bill you incured with topmost though. 

you will also want to shop around your vets. open the yellow pages and call every last one that you could even MAYBE get to. vets can really charge anything they like. so if you tell them your situation as well they may lower the price. if they say they have never done the operation before, call someone else. you need someone with at least a little experience. 

also, start posting in as many places as possible that you have PET rats. we have a section here for that purpose, "rats needing homes". please read the format before posting and fill it out as best you can. you can update as you get more information by editing the first post and replying to it. there is also a sticky there that has links to other sites where you can post. 

also, do a search for rescues in your area. you can act as the foster home for the babies but they can help advertise them. get as many of them as you can, including general animal rescues. ones that are just for cats or just for dogs are not likely to help post about them BUT they may know of a rescue that can help some call them too.

if you can show your parents that you will be responsible about this and that you didn't get into this knowing that these animals were pregnant and so with intention to have babies i think they will calm down and help. 

you know your parents best so i'll leave it up to you whether you need to talk to them face to face about this or if it would be better received if you wrote them a clear and well thought out letter (with my mother i have to do this with serious issues. we are too much alike is the problem and a shouting match will start before anyone could make any points). the letter, for me works best. you are able to say everything just the right way, and assuming they will read the letter in its entirity it will keep your points striaght and emotion flares to a minimum. however, your parents may view this as immature or be insulted by it. again, i don't know your parents so you will have to judge best which way to go about this. 

but DO talk to them. if for nothing else to reassure them that you are a mature intelligent and responsible person. and that you did not do this just to tick them off. if you need help with your wording their a few parents on here that give their opinion and a few people that have had to do this with their parents when they were in a similar situation, all of which i'm sure would be willing to help. as both a parent and someone that had to do this with my own parents i know i am completely willing to help. 

please keep us updated


----------



## twitch

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

eeks, sorry the post was so long...


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

Thank you twitch *hug*

Luckily my parents are wonderful people. They have had rats in the past  when I was young.
I went all cry baby style explain them that it wasnt my fault etc. and they apologized for their fit earlier. They also understand that it wasnt my fault.
So we have made up now, and I got my mum to help me clear the big cage, we took the levels, and hammocks etc out of there, and the other ratties , exepct bell and her offsprings. and moved them to the other cage with the inbuilt level.
They also said that the rittens are rather cute, and we are going to keep 2-4 of them definedly or probably more  BUT defo girls!
My dad is against any kind of abortion so spaying will NOT be done on anyone... also my dad removed the death sentence of the ratties .

I called the ex-owner , she pretty much didnt care, and said that it wasnt her fault... the nerve she has. This is why I hate most of the people.
But we got everything handled at the moment... so there will be lots of pictures of little babies soon 8O

also I have home for ALL babies . Thanks to my dad and mum, they still have rat loving friends ! so none of the babies will die,be fed to anything, not be petshop animals. im so reliefed.

Thank you for everyone again. and im sorry for million posts im just panicking alot


----------



## twitch

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

oh, i'm so glad you were able to work everything out with your parents already. mine took a bit of work when i took home 2 rats from the pet store then found out BOTH were pregnant... i wasn't as lucky to have friends that could take them either.... it was quite the regimoral (sound it out and it'll make sense). 

so i guess now, all there is to do is enjoy the babies. you're so lucky you have this all sorted out ahead of time. i just hope you don't end up with big litters with all of them and run out of friends. between the 2 prego rats i had they had 24 babies all together... *shudders* playing with the babies was great but finding homes for everyone was something straight from ****... i had one person return a couple, when they left they were very sweet, when they came back they wanted my blood and they were only gone two weeks... we were able to sort that all out but i THOUGHT they were going to a good home... then to come back like that... 

any, i'll stop ranting. i'll be watching for baby pics. hope everything goes well.


----------



## CaptainFlow

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s)*

Nuthin wrong with living at home, I still do it myself during school breaks. 19 is hardly an embarrassing age for that- wait till you're like, 28 and still live with your parents. _Then_ you might want to really start thinking about getting your own place!

That's really too bad about your parents, it's a shame they couldn't be more understanding about this. Maybe you could at least start off doing serious chores around the house, and see if they'll pay you, or at least promise some financial support in return? 

Do try to keep them from murdering your poor rats, though! Maybe there's a friend's house where at least one of them could stay for a bit while your parents cool off a little?


----------



## CaptainFlow

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

Whew, looks like I was a little. Glad it's working out for you.

Pictures of the babies please?


----------



## twitch

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

thankfully her parents have changed their minds and are supporting her now. 

and yeah... my mom lived with my grandmother until she was 35.... so 19 is just fine! :lol:


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

Hehe, well yeah I guess theres nothing wrong with living at home at age of 19 
Ill get piccies once Bell has callmed down, shes rather protective and very hostile ... I wanted to take a quick peek and she almost bit half of my hand (atleast!) off (ok maybe im exagerating(spelling? ).
But there will be... ALOT of baby pictures.
But it seems there might be 14-16 babys just from Bell...

The homing part might be tricky yeah, but uhh this old (old and old... 45)lady , a friend of my mothers said she would gladly take 10 boys if there is 10 of them 8O . She has had like million ratties in the past, and took a break 
and then there is my dads friend who used to do rehoming for rats, a rescue centre kind of thing. He is very wealthy... and by very i mean hes like REALLY REALLY wealthy 8O I guess working hard will pay off  anyway, he will take all the "left overs" and get homes for them. He currently has 6 rats himself.

I cant wait to see what kind of ratties the babys will become. Now that im not that worried and panicking anymore since everything seems to go well im quite excited and eager to see the babys! all of em *cheer*

And again im sorry for the ranting, over reacting, panicking and bad grammar!  and I would also like to thank you all very much  you have all been extremely helpfull and nice.


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

Also... AWWW the little babies are squeaking *melts*


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

I'm glad it is working out.

Have you ever had to care for a litter of rats before?

There are many joys & there can be a few sorrows. The joyous times are easy enough to prepare for so prepare yourself mentally & emotionally for the not so joyous moments.

The number one sorrow that is most common, especially with large litters is that some won't make it. Don't panic if you find one dead... or missing altogether. It is nature's way. om only has 12 nipples.

As for expense... there really should be any added expense for the next couple weeks, so save your pennies now. In two weeks the babies will start eating grown up foods. You can parboil some veggie stems & pieces, stuff you may normally toss out. There are all kinds of tips & tricks with that. 

The only necessary thing you should really consider buying would be a very tiny eye dropper & a can of puppy or kitten formula. I don't know what brands you have over there but over here we have Esbilac for puppies & KMR for kittens. Esbilac is the one I prefer using. I have never had an animal baby reject it & that is important when you don't want to waste money on things you can't use.

If this is something you can get it will give you peace of mind when you find yourself in a situation when you will really need it & that could be late at night after stores have closed & you have to take action right away.

I'll explain how to use the product after I know you have some on hand.


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

No, Ive never had any litters before.
We got tiny eye droppers, but am not sure if we have puppy or kitty formulas , Ill try checking out petshops. 
Might be a stupid question but why do I need it?
if something happens to the mothers?


----------



## twitch

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

well if something happens to the mothers obviously but also to help them out. the moms do only have 12 nipples and if their litter is over that size you may want to nurse some of the babies yourself as well, you know, to help mom out and make sure as many babies as possible make it. if the others have smaller litters you may want to consider moving some from the big litter to them as well. but we'll walk over that bridge when we some to it. 

check food stores and general stores in the pet section as well. i was able to find the kitten formula in my local grocery store. and i've been able to find cheap litter of the same brand i normally use for a heck of a lot less. also, my mother has had very good success with getting puppy formula from feed stores. but of course, if you can't find any in any of those places a vet is sure to have something though it will likely cost more.


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

just as twitch said... when the time comes will talk about what to do with it. Right now I do encourage you to get it because with as many little ones as you will most likely have you are bound to need it.

The last litter I had to care for only had 5 babies & I needed it. 

You are already triple that number so you do the math. Odds are you will need it & you'll be very happy you have it on hand before you find the need.


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

I thought something like that, was very tired when I posted my last post 
Ill go check out petstores, and if i cant find any there, ill phone my vet friend.
Im going to also check out the babies later today when I get home from shops.
Melody nor Sassy hasnt given birth yet. I kinda hope Sassy is just fat... but I just dont think she is with the roundness shes got past these couple days. Well im off to the shops to try get that formula


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

If you cannot find the Esbilac you can also buy regular human baby formula (powdered). Rats milk is very similar to humans so its a good replacement as well. And the powder keeps .

With Bell, she may have only 12 nipples but rats are smart with big litters. They will put some babies off to the side and feed them in shifts. Don't do what I did and keep putting the babies back with Mom, she's doing it on purpose. If some die they just weren't strong enough to survive, a sad fact of nature.

I'm glad its all getting worked out and you have found a local rat community to support you, besides your parents!! 

You will need to start handling the babies every day. Just a few minutes a day while they are pinkies, since they cannot regulate their temperature on their own yet. Within a few days you will see colours and fuzz start to appear. 
You can check now for eye colour. Dark eyes look bluish thru the skin, and ruby and pink eyes you can't really see at all. 

With mom being aggressive you may need to use gloves to handle her for awhile. She is hormonal and protecting her babies from big scary you.

Later on we'll help you sex them. I sexed my first litter at 5 days for the first time and was completely accurate


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

Yeah, I visited all the petshops, there were no formulas left?! So I called my vet friend and she said that she doesnt have that around her office, and recomended me to buy the human baby powder thing. which I did.

Also... There wont be more litters coming. When I got home from the shop, Melody and Sassy were dead in their nursery cages. 

There was a dead baby rat half out of melody. there was 16 dead babies near Melody aswell.. and all of them were cold.. and there was a big hard umm lump in her tummy, and didnt look like baby, more like a tumour
I was only gone for 6 or so hours  
There was no signs of lumps or anything besides a big belly on Melody yesterday, or today when i left to the shop


Sassy was just lieing in her cage cold aswell but no babies. her tummy wasnt big either anymore.

Bell is doing fine, she allthough bit me when I got worried and wanted to check . Prolly thought I wanted to steal her babies. There was only 14 babies left when I counted them and took picture. (picture will be posted later when I upload it on my pc).

Im going to send Sassy's and Melody's bodies to the animal thingie where they see the cause of dead hopefully. 

All of my other 4 girls are also doing great. no lumps or sneezing or anything.


----------



## BlueSkyy

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

i'm so sorry for your loss 
i wish there was something i could do or say that would help...


----------



## CaptainFlow

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

Oh no. I'm so sorry. Sometimes nature can be brutal, but it's so sad when it happens to you.


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

Yeah...im sending the bodies tomorrow. I definedly wanna know what happened to them. 

I just hope Bell now keeps on nursing her babies. She had taken half of the babies deeper in her nest and nursed them there, and left the other ones outside... so when she went for a walk in my room I put the other babies back in the nest. and also took a peek again and took pics! unfortunately... my sister went sleep early today and didnt tell me where the cam is. So cant post a pic of the litter of 14 rittens yet


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

erp! also, does pregnant rats smell unusual or does the babies make some odd smell?
I cleaned the room where the ratties are from top to bottom and its still having an odd smell 8O :?


----------



## Hippy

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

Im so sorry. I didn't think that rittens could die so fast if their mother had died only 6 hours later. :[
I hope your other rats are doing well.


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

I think that the babies were somehow in bad condition, and the mother didnt eat them or something :? or that they had born dead... or kept coming out after the mum died, or the mum was too weak or something... meh, going to send the bodies to the ortopsie or whatever the animal thingie is where they find out what happend.

well anyway R.I.P Melody, sassy and the rittens you will be greatly missed


----------



## Stephanie

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

I am so sorry for your loss Nenn. Remeber that you did all that you could for them to give them a better life. (p.s. it is called a necropsy on animals)


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

Baby poop (all milk) can smell very different than you are used to. You'll probably have to clean the cage often since they are in an enclosed space.

don't forget Bell needs to have the babies in small groups to shift-feed them, so just make sure they are covered and don't put them back in with the rest. She keeps them separate so she can make sure everyone gets fed...in shifts. :roll:

It sounds like Melody died of complications during birth (one of those things that people need to hear about...these things DO happen and we're not just all fanatical anti-breeders! ) and the babies died because mom died (no chance at milk, warmth, life). I have no idea why Sassy died, that is the one who should be necro'd. 

I am soo sorry Renn.


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

I sent both of the bodies and they said on the phone that I should send them couple of the rittens aswell so I did.

well, the babies were too far away from the nest in my opinnion. but I guess your right lilspaz.

I called the ex-owner and told her.. and she said that couple of her pets died during labour since they had been used to breed over 5 times... I though max limit would be 3 times.... 
Also she kind of called me couple hours after I had called her and was pretty mad since she lost all of her pets to the animal rescue thing. she was pretty furious. also the lady from the animal centre thing called and thanked me for calling them since the place had been horrible for the pets, rabbits and guinea pigs held in small storage boxes mixed with both genders. All the other pets had been living same style... and in very filthy conditions in the basement... 
Im just glad that the animals got away from her


----------



## twitch

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

how did she know it was you that called? the animal control people aren't supposed to say. but i'm glad that she doesn't have the pets anymore. i just hope that the rescue league they get sent to will be able to home them all. 

i'm very sorry for the loss of the other mothers. they were beautiful girls.


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help...(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATE: 1 litter born, 2*

I dont know how. But I guess the first person she would think about was me since I called her earlier and before that and at the first time I threadned to call the animal control people. 

Well melody and Sassy are at the rainbow bridge now


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATEics of the babies!*

Baby pics! This picture was taken 2 days ago, sorry for the late post ><

Here are Bell's babies at the age of 2 days !



Will post more when I get the opportunity to use my lil sisters cam again


----------



## Inesita

*Re: Need help(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATEics of the babies!*

Aw, how precious!


----------



## sweet_dreams91

*Re: Need help(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATEics of the babies!*

Awww.


----------



## jellybeanqueen

*Re: Need help(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATEics of the babies!*

they're sooo cute. <3


----------



## ratrover

*Re: Need help(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATEics of the babies!*

nice cage


----------



## ratrover

*Re: Need help(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATEics of the babies!*

maybe i should make a bin cage


----------



## reachthestars

*Re: Need help(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATEics of the babies!*



ratrover said:


> maybe i should make a bin cage


Someone else's topic is no place for speculation on what kind of cage you want. You already have a topic in Rat Homes, discuss it there please .


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATEics of the babies!*

Thank you for the nice comments :] Will prolly try to steal my sisters cam today and take some new piccies of the little eepers ^^


----------



## CaptainFlow

*Re: Need help(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATEics of the babies!*

Yay, new baby pictures! I can't wait to see em!


----------



## ratrover

*Re: Need help(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATEics of the babies!*

no im not off topic on the first or second page is a pic of a bin cage


----------



## glindella

*Re: Need help(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATEics of the babies!*



ratrover said:


> no im not off topic on the first or second page is a pic of a bin cage


You are off topic, this is a thread about a litter of rittens. There is an entire section for home questions. Its really rude to thread-jack and try to make everything about you :roll:


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant rattie/s) UPDATEics of the babies!*

There is new pictures of my cutiepies! The pictures were taken today, and they are currently 5 days old! They grow so fast <3

First, If this ritten is female im going to definedly keep her


Shes just gorgeous, and I really hope that she is a girl.. she didnt look like a girl from downunder... :? 

and then there is rest of the litter! 14 babies <3


8)


----------



## rat_ratscal

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

o hope s/he's a girl!


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

she looks like blazed bareback *jumps with happiness and cheers* if its a boy i need to somehow convince my mum to let me keep 2 boys from the litter ..which will be hard 8O but lets hope for a girl


----------



## rat_ratscal

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

why doesnt your mom want boys?


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

Well, accidents can happen you know, and rats get pregnant  She doesnt really wanna take the risk. since I have 5 other siblings who are younger than me ,and what if they put the male rat with the girls or vise vers... not a good thing


----------



## rat_ratscal

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

i have 5 younger sister :roll: they are all crazy

so im guessing you already have girls (i forget the beginning of the thread)


----------



## BlueSkyy

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

oh they look beautiful!  lots of berks and selfs and one really nice looking capped baby (i assume that's the one you have your eye on  ) i hope all continues to go well for you and your babies


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*



rat_ratscal said:


> i have 5 younger sister :roll: they are all crazy
> 
> so im guessing you already have girls (i forget the beginning of the thread)


Yeah I have 5 girl ratties, 2 died while ago :<


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

Thank you bluesky <3 , and yup the capped one is the one I have my eyes on!


----------



## jellybeanqueen

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

aw, they're getting cuter and cuter! 
i can't wait to see 'em when their colors appear! <3
and if the little capped one you have your eyes on is a boy, you could always get him neutered..apparently female rats _love_ their male companions. ;]


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*



jellybeanqueen said:


> aw, they're getting cuter and cuter!
> i can't wait to see 'em when their colors appear! <3
> and if the little capped one you have your eyes on is a boy, you could always get him neutered..apparently female rats _love_ their male companions. ;]


Yup! they are getting cuter and cuter! and I cant wait either to see em when their colors appear 
Yeah I was thinking bout that neutering, but I still hope that shes a girl! :lol:


----------



## rat_ratscal

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

the baby you have your eye on kinda looks like panda (blueskyy's boy)


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

Yeah it actually does look like blueskyys panda !
EDIT:Typos


----------



## twitch

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

you may find one that will do it cheaper but the neuters around me costs the same as a cat neuter which is nearly $100 after taxes. having said that i still have 2 neutered boys in my cage. and the girls LOVE them. well, most of the girls love them. though i think twix loves bugging stewie so that's a kind of love too i suppose... :wink::lol:


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

Haha twitch 

Yeah I gotta discuss with my mum about the neutering... but if she doesnt wanna then theres nothing I can do really  *prays that the bareback rattie is a doe*


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

give us some under carriage pics of the babies & maybe we can help you sort out the genders


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

Under carriage? meaning?


----------



## BlueSkyy

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

undercarriage = rump


----------



## rat_ratscal

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

under carriage=rump=bottoms


----------



## A1APassion

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*



Nenn said:


> Under carriage? meaning?



just trying to find a PG way to ask for X rated pictures of your ratties

(hehehehe)


----------



## rat_ratscal

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

tsk on you passion! but good idea (joking) :lol:


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

hahah! bum pictures eh! well, ill try take some today or tomorrow, depends really how my sister wants to loan her cam... I wonder if she would be more happy to loan it if i said that passion wants X-rated piccies of rats...hmmm


----------



## jellybeanqueen

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

more pictures soon?
tell your sister that some awesome person from rat forum demands that she lend you her camera. :lol:


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

Shes being irritating and now wont be nice and give the pictures we took  
will post the pictures as soon as she starts acting normal ;_;


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

Hokay. So Cant post piccies of the little boys and girls since some dumb little person broke the camera.. ah well.

All the babies are doing extremely well, Bell has stopped biting me and lets me touch her and the babies.
All of them have opened eyes and are walking,running and jumping around :>
Also they are eating the food , and tasting the water!
Theyre so cute . Most of them look like Agouti coloured
But there are couple black berkshires aswell  and couple that look a bit like mink or blue.. im unsure of them. and then there is the one cutie pie which is some sort of an bareback 
I will keep 3 boys and 1 girl from the litter (After whining couple days permission to boys was granted!).
Ill try to loan friends camera or something so I can take couple piccies of the little rascals.
So now ... my question is at what age could I start giving the pups away? was it 4 or 5 weeks? also pictures of 3-4 week old genitals would be appriciate. Since the little ones wont stay and let me take pictures of their... and I would like to sex them. I think there is 8 girls 6 boys but am not 100% sure.


----------



## twitch

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

4 to 5 weeks of age is approiate to be giving them away though personally i would wait until a mininum of 5 weeks, closer to 6 weeks to make evenone is well adjusted and doing fine after weaning. 

are you getting the boys neutered? i can't remember if you answered this question already or not. i have two neutered boys myself, they are such dolls. cost really depends on your vet, as i heard some go as low as $20 but mine was close to $90 after taxes. it depends on their size too on how soon they can be done, Bribery, being an average size was done at 8 weeks of age. 

can't wait to see pictures of everyone. do you have homes lined up for everyone already? names?


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

Homes are lined up for everyone.
And nope, wont get the boys neutered. Got a cage for them already 
The boys will be called Miko, Ad/hd (cos the one getting the name is really active),Blaze. And the girl will be called Twinky :> . I had names for everyone but uhh.. they got mixed up since they look pretty much alike 
I will be posting pictures of them as soon as I get a camera from somewhere !


----------



## Nenn

*Re: Need help(pregnant ratties)UPDATEics of the babies!5da*

Okay! So my sister had broken the camera, but luckily some of the pictures were saved! *cheers*
Also the boys that I am keeping have names now! But first things first... the older pics of the litter 










__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


























and now the boys that I am keeping...

Nameless(he doesnt have a name yet, got an suggestion?)









Icarus









Illidan









Ozzy and Kazzak (Ozzy is the Agouti under kazzak, Kazzak is the black one)









All the little rats are doing well, eating good and drinking water ! also pooping in every corner! At first I was very worried that they wouldnt be ok since Bell went into very bad shape and had to be sent to the rainbow bridge cos of the tumours. So all is well after all.


----------



## mymilo

Oh my goshness! *falls over* They're so CUTE!


----------



## rat_ratscal

yay! you used the same name as me (ozzy) because you know, ozzy osbourne rocks, but i dont thinkj that' swhy you picked it 

yay for cuteness!


----------



## Nenn

rat_ratscal said:


> yay! you used the same name as me (ozzy) because you know, ozzy osbourne rocks, but i dont thinkj that' swhy you picked it
> 
> yay for cuteness!


Actually thats the reason why his name is Ozzy  I love ozzy osbourne, and black sabbath <3


----------



## jellybeanqueen

aww, they're so gorgeous! <3
especially illidan..but then again, i have a weakness for high whites.
and dumbos, and rexes, and...basically, all ratties.
yeah. :lol:


----------



## rat_ratscal

yes, i have 45 ozzy songs and 150 more i need to download, and a poster, calendar, live concert dvd and a black sabbbath t-shirt

but that's off topic, and i wish to steal your babies


----------



## Nenn

rat_ratscal said:


> yes, i have 45 ozzy songs and 150 more i need to download, and a poster, calendar, live concert dvd and a black sabbbath t-shirt
> 
> but that's off topic, and i wish to steal your babies


I have every black sabbath cd, and ozzy's cd (thanks to my dad <3).

but nooo dont steal my babies! mine! *starts to cuddle her little boys*


----------



## twitch

Jealously for the name of the unnamed one. i don't know about the others here but i'm certainly jealous of you getting to have such a cuttie all to yourself from birth. besides, its sounds really neat when you play with it on your tongue.


----------



## Nenn

Jealously would be a nice name, but too hard to pronounce


----------



## A1APassion

then go with envy


----------



## Nenn

ohhh thats a brilliant name! Envy it shall be !


----------

