# Help Please baby rat under stress, vet is not sure what it is...grr



## jburgess (Apr 13, 2011)

Hello, i run a small rat rescue. I got a little tiny baby, about 5 weeks old. She seemed to be breathing out of her mouth, breathing really hard with her chest and grinding her teeth a lot. I took her to the vet, we found lice (not mites) he actually showed me under the microscope. My baby weighed .05kg(50mg), he gave me a kitten revolution and the correct doseage with a small syringe, every 2 weeks for 3 treatments.

Would lice cause the weird breathing? He didn't want to give me baytril as when he listened to her lungs they sounded clear and heart was good. No porphrin, or sneezing... just looks like she is panting, taking a lot of energy to breath and sounds like she is bruxing really loud... Any ideas what this could be? or is it due to the blood suckers draining the life outta her, like the vet said?? 

Thank-you for your input!


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

You definitely do not need 3 doses of Revolution, 1 is more then enough to kill all those buggies for good.

She sounds like she is in real respiratory distress, I don't know from what though. URIs are obviously first thought, but the bad teeth grinding also makes me think she maybe has jaw pain or something else. Someone can be of better help then me, but she NEEDS more help asap. Breathing problems are very serious.


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## jburgess (Apr 13, 2011)

Yes, i read the excessive bruxing means pain as well... ugh... its painfull for me to even watch!! I will take her back to the vet, he doesnt see many rats so usually i come in with what i want and need because i read up. Im not sure its URI as there is only one symptom the heavy breathing with her chest... no discharge, she has pretty good energy levels but manybe she cannot sleep due to the pain?? im not sure she is in pain either though... she doesnt hide, squeek and is not really tired looking... im sad that i dont know what to do!!


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

have you considered taking her to another more specialized vet? i've personally been recommended both tri lake and rose valley animal hospitals... you could give one of them a call and at least get some advice.


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## jburgess (Apr 13, 2011)

I called them, they said they have to see the pet or have my vet in penticton "consult" with them... i will call the vet i saw tomorrow as they are closed now and see what he says about asking the vet at tri lakes. I have been to tri lakes befor, nice place, i brought a bearded dragon there a long time ago. I wouldnt be able to bring her there until monday, as i own and work at my own business and cannot close for a day to get there. Ill have to try the vet consulting thing first i think! Thank-you Jaguar! She has such a sweet personality! I just brushed a few lice off her, will keep doing that get them off her! Poor girl!


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## jburgess (Apr 13, 2011)

I ran her a hot shower... she seems congested... ill start her on baytril tomorrow... tried to get some 90% dark chocolate in her... didnt want any... aww... a girl who doesnt want chocolate must be sick!! she isnt really eating the regulat grains and block so i have made up some soy infant formula, pablum and mixed fruit baby food... she licks that up pretty well.. i will keep feeding her that... she has access to food and water all day... she keeps staring at me like " help me, im telling you whats wrong, why arnt you doing anything?" her little lower jaw just keeps going and going moving... im not sure if she can sleep because of it... i havent caught her sleeping yet... im hoping with the steam and the food she will sleep...


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

Poor girl  I hope its just a URI and the baytril will take care of it but I find the bruxing odd. I know it can be a symptom I'm just surprised it is so frequent. I wonder if she is in pain...


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## Nienor (May 1, 2010)

If you can get an x-ray done and look for abnormalities concerning the heart. If it isn't a URI it can be a heart disease ..
It could only be the lice if she was very heavy infected suffering from a anaemia due to the infection.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Any open mouth breathing is a bad thing especially in babies...was she open mouth gasping at all?

Like Pinta?

http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h...on=view&current=Pinta5weekoldbabywithresp.flv

As for the Revolution, your vet is mixing it up with ivermectin, which is a weekly dose for 3 weeks. One dose is fine for Revo. The lice should all be off of her by now...if you see any moving at all, then check the bottle of Revo you were given because maybe its expired. Nits will stay on the hair shaft until the hair sheds.


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## jburgess (Apr 13, 2011)

Hello! Yes looks like Pinta, she was open mouth gasping, sputtering ans squeeking... still no fluid though... She was a bit better this morning, ate all her soy infant stuff over night. And wasent breathing as laboured, the lice are more or less gone now, i havent fully checked her out i think she is happier that way... she will be getting baytril tonight. Plus i put a "hot hand" under where she sleeps so she is warmer too! The vet thought the breathing was because of anemea... hopefully now with all the lice gone she will be able to fight harder for her breath! She wasent as puffed up either, and she came over to give me a kiss this morning when i checked on her... i was think last night i might put her to sleep, but this morning she was better. Still breathing open mouthed and "clicking" a little bit but it was way better, she even closed her mouth for a bit and just chilled out, which she hasent done since i got her.


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## Nienor (May 1, 2010)

If she has an anaemia, she needs iron .. try to put pureed beetroot into the infant food. Or even try the juice ..


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## jburgess (Apr 13, 2011)

I will buy her some tonight before going home!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

jburgess said:


> Hello! Yes looks like Pinta, she was open mouth gasping, sputtering ans squeeking... still no fluid though... She was a bit better this morning, ate all her soy infant stuff over night. And wasent breathing as laboured, the lice are more or less gone now, i havent fully checked her out i think she is happier that way... she will be getting baytril tonight. Plus i put a "hot hand" under where she sleeps so she is warmer too! The vet thought the breathing was because of anemea... hopefully now with all the lice gone she will be able to fight harder for her breath! She wasent as puffed up either, and she came over to give me a kiss this morning when i checked on her... i was think last night i might put her to sleep, but this morning she was better. Still breathing open mouthed and "clicking" a little bit but it was way better, she even closed her mouth for a bit and just chilled out, which she hasent done since i got her.


Pinta almost died...that is how her terrible URI started and it got worse. She ended up on baytril and steroids to open up those lungs...she would have attacks and be "fine" in between. For your gal baytril ASAP, double up the dose for the first day or so, be prepared to steam her if she starts gasping, or even use a albuterol puffer on her if necessary (cover her eyes). My prayers are with her. If the baytril isn't cutting it within 3-4 days add zithromax, doxy or clavamox.

For future information, anemia doesn't cause breathing issues, like this.


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## jburgess (Apr 13, 2011)

Thank-you i will double the dose tonight for sure! She seemed better today, i hope she pulls through.. cute as a button! if it doesnt clear up i will ask for the zithromax and one of the other 2 anti's. Thank-you for the warning... i will steam her twice tonight as well.. i dont have access to a puffer for her. I didnt think anemia would cause the breathing issues thats why i kept on the vet about the baytril... the infestation of the lice probably aggrivated the URI. poor baby! Ill keep everyone posted!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Your welcome. I would stick with one of those meds (preferably zithromax as it is ped friendly) in addition to the baytril, but use the baytril as your base drug as its very effective. Sometimes with wee ones baytril on its own can do the trick. Steam her only during attacks, and make sure that she doesn't worsen in the steam...if she does pull her out quick.


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## jburgess (Apr 13, 2011)

Happy to say... she is WAY better tonight... jumping around looks way better... eating hard grains and kibble.. drinking her ensure... i gave her the baytril with apple juice 2 hours before the ensure... i will wait a few hours then give her another does of baytril... but way better! Im soo happy, she is such a friendly cute little girl... her name is button, now... not out of the woods yet... Thank-you again for all your guys help and advice! will keep you posted!


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## jburgess (Apr 13, 2011)

I think she is only about 3 weeks old... crazy she is the same size as my 2 week old bubs... the litter was small, only 4, so they are huge fat babies!! Poor thing... i just shake my head at these bad breeders who supply pet shops... the pet store gives me all the stuff they get in thats sick... i make them better with love and attention then adopt them out... they just give them to me for free... i got this girl from the store.. she was the smallest of the bunch... i told the shop she had lice, they have treated all the other rats now... the pet store is reeally great at taking care of their animals though!! its one of the better ones... i think i have steered them away from ordering more and just adopting out the ones i have in the rescue... adopters will fill out a form.. i will do a house check and deliver the babies to them... it will stop a tiny bit of the demand!! and people will get healthy happy rats instead of sick ones!! Yea!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

jburgess said:


> I think she is only about 3 weeks old... crazy she is the same size as my 2 week old bubs... the litter was small, only 4, so they are huge fat babies!! Poor thing... i just shake my head at these bad breeders who supply pet shops... the pet store gives me all the stuff they get in thats sick... i make them better with love and attention then adopt them out... they just give them to me for free... i got this girl from the store.. she was the smallest of the bunch... i told the shop she had lice, they have treated all the other rats now... the pet store is reeally great at taking care of their animals though!! its one of the better ones... i think i have steered them away from ordering more and just adopting out the ones i have in the rescue... adopters will fill out a form.. i will do a house check and deliver the babies to them... it will stop a tiny bit of the demand!! and people will get healthy happy rats instead of sick ones!! Yea!


You are supplementing with formula, and baby cereal aren't you, as well as the Ensure?

I really hope your girl makes it, but to be honest...I got Pinta better finally, but she stayed small, and I adopted her out to a friend of mine along with her brother and sister. Pinta ended up dying suddenly at 5 months of age. There was something phsyiologically wrong with her from the beginning is my guess. So be prepared. Remember that you are still adopting out rats from these unknown genetics so that the only thing you can promise is they are healthy at adoption.


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## jburgess (Apr 13, 2011)

She is getting soy formula, ensure and bay cereal all mixed as one, with a bit of mixed fruit baby food. She sucks the stuff up!! 

The antibiotics i was given, he dituted it with apple juice, im haveing a hard time getting her to drink it, and she is so smal i cannot get her to stay still long enough to get some in the corner of her mouth... i tried mixing it in the fruit baby food but she didnt want that either...grr... any more suggestions?? of how to get her to eat the darn stuff... She was doing even better this morning!! no open mouth breathig... still clicking a bit...way more energy even still! Sweet baby! Thank-you!


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## HighwayStar (Aug 20, 2010)

Whenever I gave my last rat meds I would mix them in some jam. She would lick the whole spoon clean~!


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## jburgess (Apr 13, 2011)

strawberry jam was a no go.... brat!! still is improving... even though she hasent got very much of her antibiotics in her!! silly girl!


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## jburgess (Apr 13, 2011)

i will try to squeeze it in her tonight i want to make sure she gets it!


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## HighwayStar (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm glad to hear that at least she seems to be improving. Sorry that the jam thing didn't work.


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## Zhaneel (Sep 1, 2010)

I remember someone suggesting that meds be mixed with pure, unsweetened cranberry juice in another topic, perhaps you could try that?


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## purple rat (Nov 9, 2010)

I've had luck mixing meds in with baby food bananas -- good luck!


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## jburgess (Apr 13, 2011)

Thank-you i will try the other baby foods... she will let me put one drop on her front teeth... then she licks it... but its a slow going process.... seemed to be a bit worse this morning... we'll see how she is tonight. Im still not convinced its a URI... maybe a jaw issue? she has very buck front teeth, makes for a cutie, but she does this weird licking thing and clicks... but still no sounds in her lungs when i hold her up to my ear... i will keep up with the antibiotics though... very weird! Eating hard food well!


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