# Babies opened eyes-what now?



## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

So we went into a pet shop to get a hamster for my son, and came out owning three baby brother ratties. There was a guy there who said he had many rats and told us that one was holding in his testicles because he was scared. Hmmmm.. One day when they were about eight weeks old, I saw two of them suddenly start to jump on their other 'brother'. I immediately separated them and brought them to the vet the next day, only to find out that there was a sister! Well exactly 21 days later- surprise!- I found her in labor. I sat with her while she had 11 little pinkies. They are 17 day old little cuties now. Their eyes just opened and they seem to want to eat and play. I was wondering how long the momma can be away from them now too. She tries to get out of the aquarium ALL of the time. I was going to let the babies meet their uncles/dads for play time, but now I'm not sure if I should because I read about poor little mouse. Will males attack the babies too? Also, what kind of baby cereal should I give them-rice? I read that corn is not good for rats- is that true? Also, what should I give them to play with? Any info or advice to help us take care of our babies is appreciated!


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

You can now have mama and babies in a fun cage with toys and climbing and hammocks; if you have a cage that is for rats, thats ehat they need now. They also need to start being held daily and coming out for free range. It can range from thirty minutes to an hour. Mama can be away for about four hours at a time. 
They will soon begin sampling food so baby food mush would be a good idea to make several recipes can be found online. 
Make sure at five weeks you gender segregate. No they don't hold balls in they will be obvious. 


Are the males neutered? What are their personalities? If not necessary I wouldn't intro the babies to either male just because they may just kill them. It also can stress mama to smell an intact male on her kits when she trusted them to you. 


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Wow four hours? They seem like they nurse nonstop.. What can I do with mom while babies are playing? I was thinking about maybe keeping a boy and housing him with the males- would that be possible? They are just over three months old.


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Oh and they arent neutered.. I was going to opt to spay the female but then she was already pregnant 


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

Spaying is more dangerous and more expensive than neutering, it isn't precisely needed if you don't plan on housin the sexes together, if you kept a female baby you could house her with mom and leave the brothers together 


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Wanted to keep a girl for mom but kids want to keep a boy too. I read and hear so many differing opinions on spaying- less tumors vs dangerous procedure.. If i spayed the females they could eventually all live together but is it worth any danger.. Also-weird question, but could a baby get squished at the bottom of a sleep pile? These cuties love to eat and sleep.. sometimes the pile is really tight and i hear squeaking like heeeelp.. mostly they are just chill tho..









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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

Rats lives are really short anyway, it wouldn't prolong it that much, anesthesia and rats don't mix well, it does reduce tumor risk slightly but were talking about an animal that's so prone to tumors anyway, if you grab a box of tissues and read the rainbow bridge forum threads....it's a lot of tumors, if it were me I'd get the boys neutered before I got the girls spayed and I'd house seep rarely before doing either , ultimately though, it your decision


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Thanks-you make a lot of sense.. These are our first rats and the time wih them must fly by  Doesn't seem worth putting them through any of that when we can just keep them in separate cages. When could/should I intoduce the males to a baby boy?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

He need a to be with mom until week five. You could intro him then if you trusted your rat or wait until week 10-12 so the baby would be able to defend himself. 

Spaying is widely accepted as having huge health benefits. The female has a high chnce of getting tumors. In the long run it is more cost effective and less dangerous to have her spayed now while she is young than to wait an remove tumor after tumor and have her spayed when she is older and it be more dangerous. It would really be easiest to spay her once she is done nursing. 


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Yikes i am not sure about spaying-i need to do some research and pick a side huh.. When can the babies be spayed or neutered if i choose to? Also, they are so wriggly-what should we be doing when we pick them up-just getting them used to people and being touched?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Hold them so they are used to touch and smell. Make sure to poke prod and flip them over so that motion seems normal too. 


Spaying prevents mammary tumors and reduces the likelihood of other tumors. If you chose to have the females spayed, I would do it around 2.5 months or 10 weeks. As close as possible. Males should wait a little longer to help growth and development; post-neuter you also have to wait two weeks for sterility. 


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

WOW- playtime is fun but crazy! There are so many of them!



















All 11 in the box!


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Haha only worse from here. Even my adopters were surprised how energetic and mischievous rittens were. 


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## Chuck (Jul 15, 2013)

Having spayed and neutered, I would highly recommend spaying. There are huge health benefits. Neutering a rat is much more invasive then neutering a cat or dog. It is a major surgery for boys and frequently become infected. If you are anywhere near albany I can recommend an excellent vet for spaying


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## JLSaufl (Jan 20, 2013)

While neutering is generally most cost effective it has no other benefits aside from being able to be housed with females. 

Spaying a female rat could increase her life, but cuts the risk of developing tumors more than in half. There have been many successful neuters and spays of rats of all walks of life. There have also been many unfortunate endings for both male and female rats, when they go in to be fixed. 

If the decision was mine, I would definitely have my female spayed.


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

I've been researching and I seem to find more info to support spaying. I suppose there is always a risk when anesthesia is involved.. If I do my Hershey(the momma) and a baby girl I'm going to keep, should I wait and do them together, or get the mom done first and baby at three months? And do I wait a full three months? Thanks for all of the info- I'm trying to do right by our ratties.


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

They are SO cute but getting SO big and nutty!!













They are so hard to get pics of now.. *sigh* they grew so fast...









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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

You are likely to get a discount if done together. It'll also mean cheaper meds and only one recovery time. I don't think it'd be devastating to do them both when the kit is 10 weeks which really isn't long now. Set up the appointment and after one week for recovery everyone can live together. Make sure your cage has 2 sq ft per rat. 


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## Chuck (Jul 15, 2013)

If you do the surgeries at the same time then the girls can stay together at the vet for support and recover together. Otherwise you will need to keep them separate for at least 48 hours while the incision heals


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Some updates: 5 are spoken for so far-yay! They are getting so so big - it's almost time to leave their mama  They enjoy being held, and I think some of them could be even shoulder rats. I keep trying to post pics, but no luck.. will keep trying.. Does anyone have suggestions on introducing them to my 2 male rats? If I need to keep any, the boys would all have to share a cage.


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Update: So 5 of the babies are being adopted so far-yay! They all love being held now and are so fun! Since their mom is Hershey, we named them after rides at Hershey Park 
View attachment 82250

The black hooded twins- one boy (Wild Mouse) and one girl (Wild Cat)
View attachment 82258

Girl (Wave Rider)
View attachment 82266

Girl (Thunder)
View attachment 82274

Comet (Boy)







Superdooperlooper (boy)







Lightning (the one drinking-Girl)







Racer (Boy)


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Oh no -need to take those first few over- they didnt go thru?


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content








Sweet little Thunder


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Comet


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Wild Mouse


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Wave Rider


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Wild Cat


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Wish they were better pics, but it's snack time 


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Oh boy the little ones are four weeks old today- time is running out to find them homes  Can anyone suggest any other site to try to get them adopted- I've never gone on CL and am not sure if it's worth putting them on there? My hubby is ready to give them to the pet shop where they would def end up food- I wont let that happen but really dont know where to find good homes for them  And the cage is getting way smaller as they all get bigger.. They love to be held and ALL crawl out like mini zombies whenever I open the cage!


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

goosemoose, hoobly, local rescues.


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Thank you so much! These babies are very sweet and I hope to find great homes for all of them 






























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## Hey-Fay (Jul 8, 2013)

I had my boy Jasper fixed because I kept his mate and the two females from Lilly's litter with him. I didn't have the money to have him fixed when I got Lilly so the babies were inevitable (but I'm honestly glad to have them, they have my heart). After Lilly had the pups I had saved enough to get him fixed, even though when I showed up they had "forgot" to mention a few procedures which ended up costing an extra 175, I didn't have that kind of money but my father in law was kind enough to lone to me what I didn't have so i could go ahead with the procedure. I drove an hour and a half out of my way to take him to this vet, then got to drive another hour and a half back home because they said it would take up to 8 hours for him to be ready to go home, I showed up at 9 am. Three hours later I got a call from the vet telling me that he had done well through the surgery, woken up fine wad was eating and moving around and that they were checking on him every ten minutes... then the doctor choked up and told me that ten minutes before he'd checked on him and he wasn't moving. They gave him three adrenalin shots and tried to bring him back for about fifteen minutes... he never woke back up. I don't know if it was because he was almost a year old, or if maybe the vet didn't give him the correct amount of anesthesia (he'd done a little over a dozen rat spays and neuters, didn't know that when I handed him over) but something went wrong and I lost my boy. I don't think I'll ever have another male put thorough that if I can help it. The pain and heaviness of loosing one that way gets to you. I'm not telling you this to try to get you to not neuter your boys, I'm just telling you that there are risks we all take when having a procedure like this done, we all just pray everything goes alright. Good luck with whatever decision you make, and i hope your ratties live long, healthy and happy lives <3

(Edit: Also the Doc made the hospital refund all my money back. He was honestly on the verge of tears when I showed up to get him. He is a good man, and if I ever get to see him again I'm going to hug him, apologize for being kinda hateful with him, and tell him how much I am glad he was Jasper's Doctor.)


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Oh my gosh I am so sorry! I know there is a risk with both spaying and neutering and am so nervous for them.. My son would be heartbroken if anything happened to his ratties. We are keeping one girl for mom to have a friend, and also two boys. We still have 4 girls and 2 boys left to be adopted and they are 5 weeks this week so I need to separate the girls and boys. My husband doesn't like them at all since they had babies and I can't keep them (still figuring that out), so trying to work out living arrangements-both temporary and permanent. Will start introducing the two boys we are def keeping to our 2 older boys.. Mom can stay with all girls for now in temp cage, and need to figure out where to put 2 extra boys. If I buy one huge cage, I could get mom and daughter spayed and ones we're keeping could all live together. If i decide not to risk the spays, I would get another cage to sit on top of the boy's cage, and alternate the free range girls one day and boys the next, etc. I can't believe how hard these decisions are! I just want to make the best decision for them-also our vet is very expensive and I'm not sure I trust the one in my town even though they say they will take rats as patients....


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Where in New York are you located (or a town nearby)? I can look up some vets. There is this: http://www.ratfanclub.org/vetref.html

As for living arrangements, the 6 boys could stay together if the cage was big enough. Keep in mind in your cage calculator that that factors in adult rats.

Oh, as for free range. I have both guys and girls. I do them back-to-back. I keep the cages in the same room currently so I let the girls out and then after about an hour and a half at least, I put them all back. Keep a headcount. Then comes the boys. I do keep the cages slightly apart but this is just because the rats will wedge themselves between cages making it difficult to retrieve them.
It is my opinion that rats cannot mate through bars. It's just not how they have sex. Furthermore, I find that the rats enjoy seeing each other through the bars somewhat. Sometimes, however, they don't climb because the boys will groom or nip them. No injuries and pregnancies to date. I have 11 rats, 2 boys (intact) and then 8 girls and one neutered male.


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

I wasnt sure if I should bother trying to introduce all of the boys since I'm not keeping the other two  I have a Rat Manor and my big boys are kinda lazy so I wonder if the little ones would annoy them? Should I just try to put the boys all together during free range for the little ones (in the bathtub)? My husband is home today so I'm going to separate the boys and girls tomorrow.. I need to get another cage- another Rat Manor or maybe try to go for broke with a CN? Either way hubby is going to freak when he sees all of the ratties still in our possession  Is there a reason you aren't spaying your girls?


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Oh I am in Putnam, NY, and had them checked out at the exotic vet in Bedford and it cost SO much to just look at the three of them (no group discount) I cant even imagine how much it would be to spay.. I'm going to call around tomorrow to get prices in case I decide to do it.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Too many girls, not enough money. I would've spayed the mother rat when I found out that she was a girl, but she was already pregnant. If I neutered Remus then and there he would be sterile by the time they could live together... Then she had 9 girls, 4 boys. I still have 6 girls of that. I am considering using tax return to neuter the boys in a couple months and skipping vacation.

I would get a DCN; with the number of rats you are keeping, you could easily divide it in two and have plenty of room (I think 6 per half is the max @ 2sq ft a rat).

It wouldn't matter that the boys are going to be leaving, that much. I had Remus and the four sons together but poor mama rat grew haggardly without him (she is pretty fragile and needed him there to co-parent, he was such a great dad).
In my cage, there are many lazy rats and many more hyper ones. Usually the lazy ones have communicated VERY clearly they want to be left alone and stick with each other. The hyper ones go everywhere. 
I would intro them tonight since separation is tomorrow. Do only one baby at first with the two males and make someone help, ready to grab a rat (2 hands, three rats you know?). Likely won't be necessary. Then bring in the other boys. The adults might get overwhelmed but don't worry. Tomorrow repeat it before housing them together.


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Yes! My girl was already pregnant too-it kinda stinks but my kids and I had a great experience raising and caring for 11 wonderful ratties. And I cant keep them! I can maybe stall another week or two but I need to find homes for the 4 girls and 2 boys or my husband will make me drop them at a pet shop (or do it himself).. It is a lot of work too.. so hard to find them homes-wish more people knew what great pets they are.. and we worked hard to socialize them and make them used to people.. Is the DCN as bulky as some say? Hopefully will end up with only 6-4 boys and 2 girls.. I guess I can keep them separate until the girls are spayed.. that's praying I find homes for the others.. Had some interest thru the forum but havent heard back.. Is CL a safe place to find them homes? Thank you, Nanashi7 for all of the great advice 


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## Chuck (Jul 15, 2013)

I know it's kind of far but I can recommend a great vet outside if albany. It cost $500 to have 2 girls spayed. I know it's kind of expensive but it is an involved surgery.


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Thanks-and thats a good price right..wow.. I'm going to call around tomorrow but still not sure if I'm going to do it..so much money! And now I'm actually seriously thinking about a DCN because may have just lost yet another person who was adopting two boys so now need to house them all- 8 boys together and 6 girls.. And wasnt that cage just on sale last month-ugh cant win.. On the bright side, had all 6 boy babies meet and greet with their Uncle Daddies (not sure which guy is which!) at playtime and it went very well! I was so nervous that I would need to break up a ratty rumble but my shy boys sat with me and watched them in the tub, then jumped in to investigate. The little ones kept searching for nipples on them heehee.. Tomorrow will be separation day!


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Question: I am separating the boys today or tomorrow- they are going into the cage with the uncle daddies.. Should I separate mom from the girls for a while so they can be weened, or dont bother? They all still nurse and poor Hershey (momma) is looking a bit haggard.. She wouldnt leave the inside of my sweatshirt sleeve during free range with the babies..she's been such a great mom but think she's had enough! Thoughts????


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I wouldn't bother. My rat weaned the babies herself. With less rats, it was easier to get away (more space). Also try to get the babies interested in their food. The last time I saw the babies feed was in the fourth week when they'd run out of blocks. Put more in, and everyone left mama. How old are they precisely? 
Mom should cut them off herself.

My girl looked haggardly too towards the end. http://i.imgur.com/e36Vnaa.jpg very unhappy. If you have other females, put them with her (my neutered male helped take a lot of the babies attention away).


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

She is the only female (originally thought she was a boy and would live with her brothers in their cage). The babies will be exactly 5 weeks tomorrow (wed)!


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

They are still nursing, and a lot at that?


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Yes! I give her lots of extra protein still but the poor girl is exhausted 
They ALL squeeze themselves under her too!
They are everywhere-haha!







Poor momma..









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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

You're probably going to have to separate her for about a week then.


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Is it okay for her to be alone? She has gotten so withdrawn the past few days-today she wouldn't come out of my shirt.. and I had to make her go back in the cage..so maybe she needs a break.. Her milk will dry up? She is so skinny 


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## Mamoo1218 (Jul 27, 2013)

Update: Racer and Superdooperlooper got adopted by a super Rat Forum member yesterday.. We are confident that she will give them wonderful and happy lives.. So even though we miss them - thank you! 
















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