# Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my 3rd



## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

Ok, sad story, some won't like it....

I went back into the petstore where I picked up Cinnamon to order a new 50# bag of lab block... And when I was there, a guy brought in the BIGGEST RAT I've ever seen in person. Serriously, this guy is 1lb6oz!!!!! Ok, not a record breaker or anything, but he's HUGE to me!!!!!

Mark does NOT take any rat that cannot be properly/easily killed and consumed by a 5' ball python, since very very few people have snakes that big (Mark is one of the store owners - he also owns snakes). But for the sake of customer relations (this guy buys alot from the store), Mark took the rat. He told me later that he has NOONE as a customer that needs a rat that big other than me, and I feed f/t (dead before I even purchase)... I USED to use a CO2 chamber when I had to, tho I never have liked it. I still have it too, just in case a babe needs to be pts and a vet is unavailable or the only vet that can is WAY too expensive (my way is extrememly cheap... and still very kind to them)...

This boy is CUTE, albino and very dirty - kept in horrible conditions, I suppose. But his teeny little ears are so perfect and adorable! I just wanna put kisses all over that big chubby face, BUT!!!!!!!!!!! I really don't want a rat that screams whenever I touch him to go ANYWHERE near my face! :lol: I also get to take him home for free - Mark has no need for him to be hogging the store's food and not get sold to anyone but me. If I don't take him tomorrow, Mark will get him PTS in a none-nice way and freeze him for me for when I run outa food in the freezer for my Camoflage.... 

Because of his likely age, history of horrid horrid treatment, dirtiness, need of SEVERE QT and then SEVERE socialization needs, how much do you think I should really try to save this huge beauty? What is the average age of a rattie boy this size? (around 550-650 grams or 1lb4-7oz?). I just don't know if I can do it - he bristled any time I got NEAR his tank (yeah, pet store, no room in the pet-rat cages and this is a "feeder" anyways that goes in a tank... At least they have toys and really great hidey bedding along with great lab block and seeds for treats in the cages)....

I'd love to take this boy home, TRY to rehab him and see what happens, but... Otherwise, I'm taking him home and kindly have him pts so he's not "wacked" like many snake people do to their feeder rats (it's really quick, but NOT humane or kind in anything but the speed death actually comes). 

My only concern is how much TIME it will take to rehab this boy, and how much attention he'll need from me to get him rehabed to the point of being a good pet rat? With all my other pets - rat and otherwise - plus a hubby and demanding small child (and maybe another on the way within 9 months - MAYBE... I think birth control has failed me a third time!!!), I don't think I have the HOURS each day to spend just on this ONE SINGLE rat.

Anyone in FL want him? I'm willing to drive up to 90 minutes to help get him to a good home if that's what happens.... If not, he gets to be mine tomorrow, whatever his fate... I think I'll QT first for a bit and see if he calms down with some better housing and decent human contact. 

I hate how he's had such horrible experience with humans that he can't stand being around us anymore... I want to help him love me... but is the stress on both of us worth it, especially when he may stay scared stiff of people for the rest of his life? Should I end the torture quickly for him if there is no improvement after a few days/weeks/whatever? And yes, I consider life with humans torture if the rat is so scared he screams when the lid to the tank is off! Not squeeking, more squeeing like a dolphin - I call that a rat scream!

ANy suggestions/ideas for me? ANy interests? Thanks all! I really appreciate it!


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## kaylaface (Sep 6, 2007)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. Should I really try?*

Hmm. Thats so sad. You could always try taking him and maybe he'll warm up over time? Are there any rescues in your area that would help him? It would be awful to have him inhumanly put down due to someone else mistreating him.


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## RoRo (Mar 10, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. Should I really try?*

I have a lovable aggressive rat, it can be done. Just when he gets home for the first time let him be. DO NOT stick your fingers in the bars, cause yeah they LOVE that but of course you don't. And when you want to spend time with him if he getts like really defensive leave the door open and let him come to you.

Of course recognise the days you just have to leave em alone. Trust me there's days numnums rather nail my hand then be cuddled.

I say give him a chance.


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. Should I really try?*

Yeah, I think I'll give him a fair chance. If after a week in my home (after QT) he still can't stand my hand being in his cage, I'll help him out of his fearful situation... I think it's cruelty with birds to not socialize them, since they are so intelligent and need freedom to move - to be locked in a cage for 40-60 years being scared witless of the creatures around you IS torture to anything with smarts. Rats are not much different: he's smart, been stuck in a tiny cage, and is scared witless of humans! It's cruel to not socialize him, if it's possible. But if I can't help him, I don't know anyone near me who would. Heck, to neuter the boy would be really difficult, and I don't think Blaze would go for getting an older rat in HIS territory. So only option is with my girls after a neuter, and I won't do that until he can at least not scream or bite while being held. Poor boy. If things look OK for him, I may go ahead and introduce one of my baby boys to him and see what happens (WHEN the QT is over) - preferably Blue Velvet since he's near the bottom of the hierachy with the boys, and he has no chance of leaving my home EVER while he's alive (other than for the vet or public education!)... (fostering a few boys, that I MAY keep... dunno...).

Here's my thought about the "pts" issue: you HAVE to put dogs down that are taught to fight because they have nearly no chance to be rehabbed - it's POSSIBLE with years of work, but the dog has little good quality of life in that period, plus terrorizing their trainer and possibly attacking... If a rat has been trained for over a year, maybe close to two, that humans are evil jerks that just want to hurt him, and if he doesn't start trusting me enough to have a decent quality of life after a reasonable period of time, I don't think he should be tortured by being forced to live in fear longer than he has to.... Any thoughts on that? It's not like I WANT to kill him and feed him off, I actually have a bit of a soft spot for this squishy boy. I just don't want him having to live in terror of me! Note: I have a friend from church who is QTing him for me - older person, lives alone other than a large bird, and refuses to TOUCH the rat other than slipping in the lab blocks each day and I'll come to refill the water and clean him out, and spend time with him. That's three other homes to visit daily to see babes in QT...  Becca won't mind - it's all people she loves, and it's RATS!!!!! 

Ok, thanks!


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

Ok, I forgot to add that I brought him to my friend's home for QT earlier, and he's still screaming. Because I don't have a good solid cage for him made up, so he's in a nice 40gal tank with toys, bottle, food and treats, and three big boxes to hide in.

Ans He's still terrified. I had to put a box over him, slide cardboard under the box, slowly turn the whole thing over, and close the box before he could escape to be transported... Poor thing, I didn't wanna chance the cat carrier since he maybe could escape before I closed THAT, and he would have been able to see me, which seems to scare him more.

But at least he's settled. I'm gonna see if Tony can throw together a quick 3'2'2 wooden frame together that I can staple hardware cloth to and make a door in the cloth (I'm kinda handy, but TOny won't let me use the big tools...  ) and let him have an airy home for when he comes home to me. I just don't want to change anything for awhile until he has the chance to relax and calm down a bit.

Ye know? I'm really lucky! My friend is only doing this as a one-time-thing, but it's cuz he's such an urgent case! you know? But at least he hasn't lunged to bite me - YET. Maybe I'll take a chance when he's at the 2 week mark and intro him to one of my baby boys who loves me to pieces, so he'll see I'm OK. Still in the QT house though! He just really needs a friend though, you know? 

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

i once adopted a rat that had asolutely no reason to trust a human and she would scream bloody murder when anyone but me tried to touch her. she was still nervous with but at least would not scream. this big boy (i raised bigger from a couple surprise litters, many of the males had neuters done and were fine. this size, so long as he's otherwise healthy should be fine to neuter). seems to be more traumatized but not by much. 

to get my nezumi to come around i sucked up my fear of being bit and handled her even though she was afraid. she did not sense fear from me and eventually lost her fear as well. it has been reported that a rat can only be scared for 20 minutes, after that their body can't keep it up. this didn't mean i just held on to her while she struggled to get away though. 

i started by first placing her with my residents and letting her settle in some before i frigged with her. she gained some confidence from the other rats and saw that i was gentle and a source of great tasting stuff through the others. during this time i would sit by the cage and read to them so nez would associate my smell and voice with nothing scary. 

after a few days i started putting my hand in the cage and patting her even though she shook. after a couple days of that i would take out pocket (the rat she got along with best) and her on the bed and lay down with them. pocket would come over and play and groom and nap and nezumi would stay close to her, watching her. i would give quick pats when i she was in reach. 

next i took all 4 down to the couch and under the blanket. i tucked in the lanket around myself so they couldn't get away and put some treats under the blanket on me as well (wear sneakers--i don't know what it about rats but i have yet to meet one, no matter how well socialized that does not view socks as something that MUST be killed, whether they are on mommy or not). i watched tv for a while just laying there quietly. again she got used to my smell and sound and with the others as her guide saw there was nothing to fear. with the treats there she was also again associating me with good food. 

right in the middle of this socializing pocket died and we were set back a bit. she was to the point that she would seek me out when i opened the cage before pocket's death. after she ignored me. so i took them to the chair and shared snacks and quiet time and she eventually came back to herself before pocket's death. 

she eventually became a very trusting and forgiving rat. she loved everyone and was very adventurous and daring. yet she did not forget. that was not the trick here. i was friends with the father of the previous owner who had abused and neglected her soi would go over and have a coffee or two every now and then. nez's temperament would go from outgoing and loving to withdrawn and scared the minute i would set foot in that house again. she remembered what happened there, that was clear. it was that she learned to recognize that not all humans were out to get her and she was safe with me. 

the trick was patience and quiet reassurance with a huge helping of learning through the other rats. she saw that they were happy and enjoyed me and learned that i was actually pretty cool that way. i think your big boy has a chance at getting over his fear. if nothing else i have learned that rats have a HUGE compacity at forgiveness that no other animal has. all they need is to be shown that not all humans are evil. it will take time and some hard love but he will get there. and once he does, watch out. your heart will ever be the same as he will steal it from you in those tny paws of his. he will remember how horrid life was before you, sadly they do not forget it. but he will appreciate you all the more for saving him from it. 

one thing to do before introing him to others would be to treat him for mites. god only knows what he was on or how he was treated but it doesn't look good from his reactions. mites are likely but at least easy to treat. just close your ears to his screams for the time. he WILL get over it. and it is in his best interests. if it helps to make you feel more confident around him then wear gloves (i found thick leather riding gloves to be trick enough to protect from the bite but fitted enough that you can handle the rat better-i had to use them with a cage terrtorial rat, completely different situation), you want to be able to project confidence and a complete lack of fear. if you are afraid the rat will sense it and be all the more afraid for it as he won't know WHY you are afraid but will assume the worst. if you project confidence then he will sense that too and will be calmer for it. 

i'm glad that you decided to give this boy a chance and i will help you as best i can in getting him to gain trust in humans again. there are many different methods to try and i'm sure we'll be able to find something that works. this is also a fairly good sized forum which means that collectively we have a plethora of experience to lean on.


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## Brizzle (Mar 26, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

I think it's awesome you're trying to help this boy.  I would've done the same thing.


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## Lucara (May 5, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

I live in Florida and I wouldnt mind taking him if you need him to go. I dont have a cage setup for him though but I suppose I could convert my extra large dog crate into something for him but I would need to pick up extra things for him. Give him some time but if you decide that you just dont want to deal with it, i'll take him. I live in the Davenport/Winter Haven/ Claremont area


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

Thanks all, I'll let you know how everything goes.

My only semi-concerns right now with him are: he's REALLY REALLY dirty and NEEDS A BATH. I won't do it until I know I'm not gonna have to go the the ER afterwords tho. Hopefully this big boy can clean himself enough to make him a purty rattie again. He doesn't look like he has mites - I sat watching him by the cage, gently talking with my friend for about 45 minutes, and he only scratched twice, once behind an ear and the other time a shoulder. But I don't see scabs, anything red on him (I tried to look really close at his ears especially), or any other mite signs. 

I really don't know the conditions he was kept in, but he was FILTHY when he came in, and a little cleaner this morning when I picked him up from the store. And when he was brought in, the poor dear was in a round plastic container (twice the size of the large margerine containers in the US - about 10-12" accross, another 10-12" deep) with a couple holes in the lid and taped down for security. His filth may be from being in that for just WAY WAY WAY too long (like, an hour or more maybe? sitting in loose fear-poop and urine for awhile). But he doesn't seem to have mites.

Now, I've kinda looked up SDA and other diseases he might have. What symptoms should I be looking for? Since he's so fearful of me, I really need some HEAVY clues I think... Thanks all!  I'll update when there's news....

Also, name ideas? He a regular PEW, with smaller-than-normal ears tho they are PERFECT, and TUBBY to the point where it seems hard for him to reach all areas to scratch or clean!  I like the name Tiny, but the name just doesn't seem to be good for him... I'm wondering about Scruffles or Mr. Scruffles since he's really scruffy looking from the dirtiness! What do YOU think? Any other ideas?


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## Jingles (Feb 2, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

When i got Rachel it was from horrible conditions...my first rat in years....she was one of like 25 in a 20 gallon tank..no toys..horrible.....she was definitly going to be a feeder....

when i bought her the guy even picked her up by the tail...


very sweet the first day.....But the second day......was ****
I even thought very hard about naming her [email protected] [email protected]


anyways it took time.....lots of treats and stuff.


But now Rachel is one of my favorites because of her outstanding personality.....She has crazy personality...better than most humans i know.


Anyways i think you should go for it!!! It will be hard.....but i think well worth.

Goodluck.


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## RoRo (Mar 10, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

You asked if fighting dogs can be rehabbed, yeah kinda sorta but people don't want to take the time. My friend had a rehabbed pit bull, that sadly in recent years had to be put to sleep. Not because he was overly aggressive it's because someone tried to break into the house and he knew my friend was in there. Long story short he had the guy by the throat and just ready to tear it off. (any pit bull owner can tell you that is control)

Law enforcement officials are jerks, the dude had it coming.

Like I said give your buddy roaming time to come out of the aquarim on his own well if he can get out. with my aggressive boy IF I can get safely behind the ears I can make him freeze and start gong numnumnum

As for the bath, wash cloth, don't try full bathing. He's big enough to jump out of tub, and anything else can get you nailed. Slowly pouring a cup of water over his back works too.

Use baby soap so incase you can't get it all off it no hurt him till you can LOL


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## RatsR4Life (Mar 11, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

oh my gosh, you put down your own rats in a CO2 chamber?? Your a very brave person, i wouldnt do that. The reason why is because with CO2, you stop the animal from breathing, not brain activity. So your rat is not breathing not moving but still has brain activity for a few seconds, so that rat can sense pain, fear, and panic. 

I would go to the vets, but even the chemical they use is still a bit iffy to me. Recent research suggest that the common chemical used to put down animals by vets, paralyze the animal, shuts down thier organs, but they still have brain activity for a few seconds, but not as long as the CO2 method.

just my opinion though.


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

If you know what you are doing with the chamber, it's completely humane. You SLOWLY increase the CO2 levels so the animal actually falls asleep with no pain, then up the amount once they are acutally sleeping. Then you leave them at that level for long enough for full brain death - I prefer 5 minutes minimum, but usually 10 to be absolutely sure. Humans cannot go 3 minutes without air or we will have brain damage, and anything over that will almost always kill you. 5 for a small animal is sufficient, and 10 makes me sure the animal is fully gone. I'll turn off the CO2 30 seconds after breathing has ended, and plug the air tubes so O2 can't go back in and complicate the process... And I only have done this when neccessary - I own snakes, and used to raise their food. After a short time I stopped feeding live, and wanted the death of the feeder to be as kind and humane as I could. Thus, a PROPER CO2 chamber. 

This way, as well, the animal is also able to trust that the person taking care of it is doing everything in their best interest, as best as we can assure them - in this case, it may be very hard if I have to do so, but it looks as if I have someone willing to rehome him if I can't get him to acclimate to being MY animal. 

Thus, the chamber really is a moot point in this case. 

Plus, the drugs injected into mammals to kill them can be very painful - heck, the pain killers injected into you at the hospital when you are in EXTREME pain actually make your veins feel on fire for a few minutes! Thus, I don't like that option since animals are often euthanized with an overdose of those drugs - knocks them out quickly, but likely BURNS before killing them. Same as the injection option for the death penalty. Those drugs apparently BURN when going in the system (one person on death row wasn't given enough to kill him at first, just knock him out - they revived him, gave him medical treatment, took his statement, then I think electrocuted him....). Thus, I personally do NOT want certain things to be used in putting my animals down. There are other options. Like the CO2 chamber, IF DONE CORRECTLY (I can NOT state that enough!!!)



Anyways, as for Mr. Scruffles, HE DIDN"T SCREAM AT ME TODAY!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But his eyes were a tiny bit droopy. If they don't improve by tomorrow, he'll be seeing the vet to get checked out... But he's eating nicely, pooping nicely, drinking great... Made a nice bed with his aspen and paper towels... AND HE"S 80% CLEAN!!! So all around, he's doing much better. YAY! I'm glad I gave him a chance, although my husband just doesn't get it :roll: It's ANOTHER mouth to feed (and a BIG one at that!), but he's CUTE!!!


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## Lucara (May 5, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

aww I'm glad hes doing well! Hoepfully hes just tired from all the stress and its nothing medical. I cant wait to see pics of him! =D


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

Nothing medically wrong with him, as far as I can see!!! YAY!!!!!!!

Mr. Scruffles (Scruffles or Scruffy for short) has way open eyes, he'll walk around his tank (I hate that... Tony has been ill with kidney stone complications so has been unable to make the new cage yet)... AND HE DOESN"T SQEEK AT ME ANYMORE!!! He's a keeper for sure now. He won't let me pet him most of the time without threatening my lack of blood loss with rats so far, but I did get to scritch his head and behind his ears once!  PROGRESS!!!!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*sigh* I wish QT wasn't for so long so I could give the poor thing a friend! I want someone who REALLY loves me to be his cage mate so as he can see how much ratties can really love me instead of fearing me...


Question: if I HAD to use a towel to move him, how would I do so without making him more afraid of me again? I'm just thinking that when his cage is built for him and a friend or two, or five, that I'll have to move him, and I don't want to do that until I know that he's going to be OK with that, you know? Well, Ok in the sense he won't start screaming again when I get anywhere near him. 

THANK YOU ALL!!!!


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

HEy, Roro - since you have a rat right now that's big and aggressive at times (and for anyone else with experience with this type, really!), how do YOU know when to leave the rat alone and when it's OK to approach even if he doesn't exactly WANT you to? This guy doesn't WANT me to mess with him, tho he's getting resigned that I'm going to anyways I think...  THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

To anyone reading this post: I strongly discourage pts at home as I'm sure most of this forum does as well as a majority of rat owners. It is not humane. The accepted way is anaesthesia sedation then pts by a certified vet.

1 lb and 6 oz is about the size of all my rats lol. It's a normal male size. I would suggest getting him neutered. He needs to be seen by a vet more than likely. It could be just aggression but he could have underlying pain or problems a vet could diagnose that you can't see. In my opinion any odd behavior in a pet such as aggression needs a vet visit to rule out medical causes especially if you have a hard time handling the boy. They might be able to sedate and bathe him for you.


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

Thanks for the advice, Poppyseed, but he was NOT a pet rat before I got him! Poor thing has cleaned himself up as well, and looking healthy - no signs of problems right now. I'm thinking that one day he might just have been exhausted from the stress of so much new stuff (lager place to play, toys, good food, PEOPLE NOT TRYING TO HURT HIM...  ) I think he'll be neutered later on. First, I'm gonna finnish QT so I know he's likely not ill. THen he'll be put with one or two other boys for a bit to adjust. THEN, I'll have the neuter done (if it seems needed, or I might wait awhile depending on how well he's doing by then), and have him recover with a friend to help him stay happy (happier an animal is, the faster the recovery)...  It won't take too long. Less than 3 weeks for QT still, then a week or two with the boys... Then to see the vet and have stuff removed! At that point, I can put him with whoever he gets along with best - girls or boys. Well, not with girls until 3 weeks after the procedure, but that won't be too long... 

As for the pts issue, it's not an issue for this guy right now. Read a few posts above. Anyways, I've seen animals put to sleep at a vet's before and go quietly. But I've also seen many many fight it tooth and nail and look to be in pain. I used to put rats to sleep in this _*humane *_way because I have snakes. I now buy frozen food for them so I don't have to. I don't LIKE it, but unless I've seen other animals react to the vet possitively when pts, I don't want my animals possibly suffering that way in their last moments. I make SURE that the animals don't suffer if I do it. No struggling, no panicking, no pain. Just falling asleep is the last thing they remember - period. Not being held down, not forced into a box. Lovingly placed somewhere comfy for the process. I've talked to a few friends who are vets and vet techs, and we've discussed this: they also think this is humane, but you HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, and it's not practical for most animals like cats and dogs that are PTS very frequently. Thus, vets likely will not use this option since it's another thing to have in the office taking up space that is needed for many other things. It's also not as quick as an injection, but it works just as well IF DONE PROPERLY AND HUMANELY. Again, I DON'T WANT TO AND I DON'T LIKE IT, but I will do it if I have to. period. This is also why I will NOT become a practicing vet myself unless it's only on my personally animals and those of close friends. And this big boy has a couple people that are considering taking him if things don't work out for me, so this point is no longer even in question. (capslock is used just for emphasis, not screaming - it's easier to use than bold when I'm typing...)

Thank you for your help though!


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

ok, i think its clear that if at all possible the vet is preferred to put pets to sleep. the method used by buggzter for a different reason then we typically use as rat owners and is no longer in use. debate over whether which method is more humane is not the reason of this post. buggzter has made her point about it multiple times now. others have made there's. as a form we do not promote home euthanasia unless done so by the vet during a home visit. this will be all on this matter. any further discussion in this thread about it shall be deleted. if this is a topic that interests you start a new thread for it. 


now, back to topic. 
if you need to use a towel to move him into the new cage, can you hang the towel in the cage like a hammock? if so do that, wait for him to get on then unhook towel from cage and instant rattie sling! you may want t practise figging with the transport hammock now so he doesn't get scared and run off the towel when you go to unhook it. if he's used to you adjusting it while he's in there he won't be bothered when you go to take it out with him in there.


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

Thanks Twitch - I'll try that for sure. GREAT update - he's letting me pet him, and he didn't even squeek or try to go for my hand when I attempted to pick him up!!! He ran scared, but didn't try to bite! Obviously, he's starting to trust me. I'm so proud of my big boy, getting over his fear of silly humans.... And it's a relief for me that he's not so far gone like I've known other animals to basically be - so scared that even after a year of work they are still neurotic... He's taken only four days!!! WOW!!!

And Mr. Scruffles has stuck to his name. His fur is never smooth, but when I chatted with my vet about whether he really needs a checkup yet, she thinks he's fine as long as certain signs aren't showing (they arn't) and she wants me to wait until he's calm with my handling before he comes in so the "going to the vet" trip isn't tramatizing to my big baby... lol! I was tentative before, but I'm glad... My friend isn't as much as I am, since she's scared of him, but we've locked the cage so he's not going anywhere. lol! 

YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By the way, I'm pretty happy with all this. :mrgreen:


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

i can see! it does my heart good to see this update. rats are so forgiving. comparing them to another abused animal isn't even possible. i've had my share of animals that have come previously from compromised homes. my mom has a couple dogs that still aren't all they could have been because of their past experience. rats don't forget but they are more willing to forgive and make exceptions to the rule. 

i can't wait until we get to see some pictures! share with us his squishy-ness!


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

LOL! I sure will Twitch - I SHOULD be able to steal the camera back from my neighbor tomorrow. She's back in town after shaparoning a senior trip somewhere in the Carribbean.... Lucky... Tho she had to go with her student... uh... not so much in a way... 

Big guy might actually not need a towel sling... we'll see!


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## RoRo (Mar 10, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

Okay anouther member IMEd me, I really didn't read the rest of your messages.

But as I said, get like a towel and put the cage on the bed or near OPEN the door and let him make the first move. NEVER EVER stick your hands in the cage till he gets comfortable. And NEVER EVER under any circomstances at any time put your fingers in the bars.

If he goes for you shout HEY or clap, those will EVENTUALLY become commands. Training them is the only way to deal with em. If that dosn't worke use the towl to encourange him back into the cage.

If he approaches you offer food, when his mouth is preoccupied scratch behind the ears

And do not be nervious they will get nervious too


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

Thanks Roro! I think with everything, I have a plan right now. He actually let me pick him up for a moment earlier without him making threats, but I DO need to have everything prepared in case of a possible attack (that will likely come at some point... just gotta be patient :wink.

So, cage door open on bed, towel just in case, yell at him if he lunges... food to keep mouth stuffed/preoccupied... heh... If I can get everything going at the same time, I think this will be an easy attempt! Though, only easy on the attempts - there will be groans, maybe tears, maybe even blood *shudders* (can't STAND blood...), but Scruffles and I will get through this!  THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ps - I don't think I'll be nervous. I KNOW I'll bleed eventually with some rat, but I just don't know when... No need to worry when I don't have to, right?  He'll adjust as he's ready, and I'll just have to deal with it.  I was able to spend a good 45 minutes today near him and with him (hand in cage for him to sniff - went over very well with him, I think).... lol! So much stuff I COULD say about what was going on in my head about this rat!!!! 

anyhoo, goodnight all! It's WAY past my bedtime!


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## RoRo (Mar 10, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

yeah the towl makes a good distraction if the loud noise dosn't work. harmless and good for detering them from fingers.

and yesh rats read minds, if you have the mind set your going to get bit they will bite. So think happy thoughts/

GOOD NIGHT GOOD LUCK


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

AWWWWW!!!!!! He let me pick him up today!!!! He wasn't particularly HAPPY, but he let me hold him for about 20 seconds before he wriggled out to get back to the safety of the cage he's in!!! YAY!!!!! 

WOW, what an improvement! And it's only been a WEEK people!!! YAY!!!! Well, less than actually, but that's even better! He may not LIKE me yet, and he may not ever LOVE me the way Blaze does, but he is no longer afraid of me or my hands!

AND!!! even better, HE HAS NEVER ACTUALLY TRIED TO BITE ME!!!!! Wow, he's a sweetie....


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## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

I'm sure he will definitely love you. Just give him time.


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## RoRo (Mar 10, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

see all he needs is the safety of his cage.

PST, I think dominate rats are just big babies.


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. Pics now!!!*

Hey all! PICTURES!!!

First is of him checking out that thing that keeps flashing at him, and the second is of him sniffing me while he slowly explores the couch.  he's on a couch with some plasic stuff to explore and chew on when I'm there (covered in a thin green blanket for protection... :wink: ). (also, stuff blotted out for owner's privacy - just in case. She's a paranoid person about privacy, but I can understand it these days...)



















Also, next week he'll likely get a friend to live with at the 2week mark to start adjusting him over, and by then I'll either have him in a home-built cage or in one already here but switched for the home-built one... YAY!!!


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## Gobo (Mar 6, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

he has such a sweet face! i like him


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## Susinko (Apr 29, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

That is one cute rat!!! Pink eyed rats are my favorites. I have two of them myself!

I'm so very glad that you are having such success with him! That poor baby. 

When I got my two babies, the pet store lady picked them up by the tails too. I wanted to make sure that Kenshin, my Siamese, was really a male first before I bought him. (I wasn't convinced that the pet store really knew) Well, my poor baby jumps out of his cage, (I always use a travel cage when buying animals) and lands on me clawing. He then tried to make a run for the open door. I caught him by his tail, I really didn't mean to, and quickly put him back in his cage.

Kenshin and Yuki didn't trust me after that. They wouldn't let me touch them without shrieking for a while and urinating and defecating profusely. It was heart breaking to see. It took months to get them to calm down. It has only been in the last few weeks that they have been happy to see me. I just had to take it slow and show them nothing but kindness. And lots of yogurt drops. Now they are the little sweeties that I always knew they were!


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

what a beautiful manrat! how is he doing now?


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: Male rat - HUGE. SCARED. I'm gonna try it... see my*

heh.. He's doing OK. He wants to use his teeth on me tho... No bites, no real NIPS, but... ummm... HUGE TEETH!!! AHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: Nah, he's doing OK. Still nervous, but he's OK.

He's getting braver now and exploring... I can hardley wait until I can intro him to Blaze - I think they will get along beautifully, especially since this guy has never had a real friend to actually PLAY with before! We just have to see how things go until Friday, and then bring him home and get the "hey! there's a new rat in the room!" smelling going, cages close together, then the leary cage swaps, then the neutral intros (on my daughter's bed, no where else is neutral to everyone in my home!), and finally cage mates!  YAY!!!!

I think it will work well with him, Blaze, and Dumbo in one cage - Blaze is NICE with everyone, but he's really friends with Dumbo, and Scruffles is about the same size. But if that doesn't work out, I'll put some younglings with Scruffles instead after they are done with their own QT...


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