# OH CRAP! Edit - SHE"S HAVING THEM!!! 5/12



## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

Oops litters suck. I have a rattie less than 8 weeks old (from what I know of her age) that looks like she'll pop very very soon!

WARNING: Long story. Ok, you know how on Craigslist you may occasionally find someone with rats they need to get rid of/rehome? Well, I found someone with an oops litter and only one more baby girl left. She's a teenager, and said she didn't realize one of hers was really a girl until about a week after they came home (Apparently the boy was very nervous and testicles were assended for a little too long... hunh??? whatever tho...). So pregnant rat and a boy rat. After the babies were born, she waited until they were 3 days old and put the male back in cuz she only had him in a 10 gallon tank and the mom and eeppers were in a deep-plastic bottomed cage... Put him back since she "couldn't get pregnant" until the babies were weaned... *cough*. Tried to help her get straigtened out... Really!

So she had 12 eepers and momma and daddy in a cage together. I picked her up at 5 weeks 5 days of age two Saturdays ago, and Daddy was finally in his own cage with one boy and momma had a daughter staying for company apparently.

I had Kitty over at my neighbor's home for QT for only a week because they were going out of town, but then had her on the opposite side of the house at least... Or tried. SHE ESCAPED THE LITTLE (B)RAT!!!! I caught her this morning after a day of trying (not too used to me yet, so running scared...), AND SHE'S GOT A HUGE BELLY!!!! She's a really nice bare-back, but not "high white" from what I can tell of the definition, and her nipples are POPPING!

I wondering if maybe she was another week older and the girl miscalculated and had the babies in with daddy/brothers too long? Cuz she's at LEAST 14 days pregnant if the girl had separated them for my benefit (girl lived in a small house, all doors open, and ratties in her room...). But there were two nice-looking cages for them, at least - hopefully she just waited a day or two too long and Kitty matured too quickly... Or she's really almost 9 weeks, and she made a mistake... BUT STILL!!! 

Well, I get to give up one oops litter (my rescue pack of 10, tho keeping 4!), and get to have ANOTHER one right away! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I may love the little eepers, but it's TIRING!!! I understand why many breeders only have 4 litters a year - it's not that the momma rats need a break, the HUMANS need one!!!! :roll: 

I'll update with pics when I can.... And let you know when the beannies are born!

*sigh* The dragons are so much easier... :wink:


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## melon (Mar 27, 2008)

*Re: OH CRAP!*

OH NO!!!!
i really feel for you, it is tiring work especially when the eepers keep you awake all night !
i`m spending a fortune trying to keep them all fed and i can`t believe how much food i`m going through just now!! starting to panic though since mine are 4 weeks and i don`t even have one home for any of them yet :? 
good luck with the new litter!


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## pinkyXstary (Apr 15, 2008)

*Re: OH CRAP!*

God you poor thing! i thought it was tiring just having one litter end of, but one after the other?! 

Melon tell me about it! i can't find one person interested in having a rat from pepsi's litter on the due to go date. i'm starting to panick a bit now


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## melon (Mar 27, 2008)

*Re: OH CRAP!*

yeah i have a week until they go and i have 2 litters to go at the same time, if you were closer to swansea i could probably take 1 off you since i`m looking for a girl to keep my friends rat company :?


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: OH CRAP!*

lol! - Melon, if I could take a girl "accross the pond" for you, I would! But, the "pond" is just a tiny bit too big... and I don't think I would get her past customs...

Luckily, I don't mind the sounds of eepers - it's NICE to me, and it makes me happy... But with as many ratties as I have, and all the time it takes to care for EVERYONE/THING (over 100 animals in my house, tho half need to be fed only once per week... and another couple dozen need no interaction either... they're tarantulas, some snakes, an aviary of parakeets - not hand pets tho)... So I am EXHAUSTED!!! 

And especially now! My hubby has been ill for 2 months and HOME most of the time and needing me to care for him a bunch... I just need a BREAK!


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## melon (Mar 27, 2008)

*Re: OH CRAP!*

you really do have your hands full, i`m sorry to hear about your hubby, hope he`s feeling better soon!
the squeaking doesn`t normally bother me, it`s just the age they`re at just now as soon as the lights go out it`s so noisey i`m surprised my daughter doesn`t get woke up haha
it`s more the boys i`m concerned about as i have enough space for 16 girls over my 2 cages, just don`t need another few oops litters on my hands lol


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: OH CRAP!*

lol! Yep - it's why I'm thinking about a possible neuter for all my boys - no oopsies then are possible after 3 weeks, and I've got less boys...  OOOORRRRRR, I could spay all the girls as well and then don't worry for awhile after ANY newcomer comes in of either sex - no oops!  *sigh* Stupid humans not knowing/caring enough to let a baby rattie enjoy her newfound freedom away from her mommy! Making her a mommy already! *shakes fist in a northerly direction where Kitty was rescued from...*


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: OH CRAP!*

SHE"S HAVING THEM!!!!! I only see 3 babies right now, and she scared the **** outa me cuz I went in and saw her eating something - I though it was a baby and it p'ed me off kinda, but then I looked closer and it was the placenta! IT WAS HUGE!!!! Sheesh... I saw my son's and all, but I didn't expect to see it on the eepers... UPDATES SOON!!!! EDIT - The placenta was still connected to the baby with the umbilical cord, and it was flat with rounded edges kinda like a tiny pizza with fluffy crust - pink tho. Not beige and brown like a nicely cooked pizza... :wink: :lol: 

Also, one of the babies was pink, breathing, but pushed away and I felt it and it was chilled... I'm turning OFF the air (rather, putting it up to 80* since we're in FL and it's around 87 out...) so the babies have a better chance at being warm.

ANy suggestions for such a tiny mom? I've given her puppy kibble (good quality natural type stuff...) and veggies and cheese and eggs.... Anything else I should do? I just put in some extra paper towels....

I just gave her a snack of pizza crust, and she's chowing down between births... I think I see 5 so far. Poor baby kitty... I'll put her next to my girl Ashley, who's 4 months, in a pic shortly so you can see how tiny she is. But she already was feeding a couple before the most recent was born.  She's already being a good mommy. TRYING to leave her alone... just a quick pic in a little while.


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## pinkyXstary (Apr 15, 2008)

awwwwww bless!

It sounds like your doing everything right! lucky you!

i hope everything goes really well, let us know how many she has!!!

GOOD LUCK! X


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

Poor little kitty had 6 eepers. She didn't put them in the paper towels I had given her last night or just a little while ago... She left them in a nest of aspen only! Silly girl. So a couple had some aspen stuck to them cuz she never fully cleaned them. 

So an hour after she was done giving birth, I lured her away for 2 minutes to get the aspen off their skin. Three still had long bits of the ubmilical cord attached, but she'll pry get to that later when she recleans them. 2 boys, 4 girls. Four also had these dark spots like hematomas under their skin - is that unusual or semi-normal? I'll worry if it doesn't go away within a day or two... One girl also looked as if there was blood by an ear, but that may be from the birth - I'll worry about that later if she only has one ear... AND I GOT PICTURES! Now I just have to edit, post on photobucket, and post here!  Soon, ppl. Soon. And they look SOOOO WEIRD as newborns! Dots for ears, no neck, LONG tails for newborns (from what I've seen in other pics) I think, and these tiny nearly immovable arms and legs!!! *sigh* I almost wish I could have 4 babys from each week of development at all times - newborn, 1 week getting fur, 2 weeks eyes opening, 3 weeks starting to eat decently, 4 weeks popcorning and nearly ready to go, and 5 weeks ready to be away from momma. BUT, never have any of them grow any more than that! Just like I wish my 2 year old could have stayed at about 6-7 months old forever...

YAY BABIES!!! Oh, and no still born that I could see.  Cheers all!


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## kristie0593 (Apr 19, 2008)

congrats...at least she had a small litter...my minnie had 11 and i can tell it wears her out.just keep mommy happy and healthy and everything should go well.


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## melon (Mar 27, 2008)

awww congrats!
and well done ot her for being such a good momma at such a young age 
i wouldn`t worry too much about the marks on the bubs, i had them on a couple of mine and panicked but after a few days that all went away.
can`t wait to see the pics!


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## pinkyXstary (Apr 15, 2008)

congrats Buggzter and to your lil ratty momma!

x


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

YAY PICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She's being such a good mommy. No nipping me, even though she was always a tiny bit nervous of me before. I picked her up, put her on my shoulder, and she just ran around ansd explored! She's hyper still at her young age, so that's expected...

Anyways, her she is right after birth, feeding the eepers









All six, and just one as well...

















And a couple comparisons so you can see how small Kitty is!
With a AA battery:









With Juicy, who turned 5 wks on MONDAY, the day Kitty gave birth:









And a funny one with Juicy:









Kitty is SUCH a great momma with them, always on them unless she's eating or drinking... Or eating icecream off my finger... :lol:


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## VioletRooster (Apr 11, 2008)

Aw I love the pics! I keep checking back in this thread, waiting for them! She is a gorgeous momma! So petite but so pretty! I'm sure she's gonna be a great momma to those precious little beans!


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## CaptainFlow (May 16, 2007)

Aw, the poor thing is still just a baby herself! Lucky she found you and is doing such a great job being a mommy.


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## OnlyOno (Apr 4, 2007)

oh my goodness she is so tiny to be a momma, i'm so sad for her. lucky she had such a small litter, i hope that she keeps on kicking butt with those tiny jelly beans.  more though, i am sad for any of her siblings that might also be pregnant and not in the safe home of someone with a little more rat experience like yourself...


click mine please!:

my scroll!


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

OnlyOno said:


> oh my goodness she is so tiny to be a momma, i'm so sad for her. lucky she had such a small litter, i hope that she keeps on kicking butt with those tiny jelly beans.  more though, i am sad for any of her siblings that might also be pregnant and not in the safe home of someone with a little more rat experience like yourself...


*cough* had rats only since 2/9 *cough* *sigh* At least I read alot and learn as much as I can - plus listen to what all the other experienced people say... :mrgreen: :lol: 

And she is a good mommy, just likes to run away and explore on her own - jumped outa the bath tub today durring playtime with a couple other girls as I cleaned her cage and ran off before I could catch her... Found her on the other side of the house under the couch where she hid before... lol! Silly girl!


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

Update: there are still 6, but it's acutally 1 boy and 4 girls! THe boy will be a variegated, and there are two bare-back or mismarked bare back girls, and two berkshires, and one that I'm not sure of yet - seems to be a lighter color!  We'll see. But I already have one home open for the boy (she's got a couple others right now), and I think two or three girls might have a home with another friend who had a rat just pass away... YAY!!!!!!!!!!!! Such cuties... only 4 days old!


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

Update: all babies are doing well.

2 berks, 4 mismarked barebacks/veriegateds (dark to the shoulder, minimal OR heavyish spotting on back, but not enough to be true variegateds)> The only boy is a variegated. 

Unfortuntaly it looks as if they might have or carry the highwhite gene that is associated with megacolon - a couple have head spots.  But I'll likely keep these until 6 weeks old to make sure they are doing well and no MC (Give them 10 days of only big rat food to check if there are any problems, and make sure the two slightly smaller girls catch up later on.)...

But, it could just be that they carry it and no real problems. That's what might be with my ratties - I THINK the parents of them are not high white, but then my ratties and the rescue rats (related - my orriginals are aunts and uncle) have blazes (alot) or head spots! Who knows... I'm not gonna worry until I KNOW FOR SURE that there is a problem. 

Pics sometime this week when they get a little furrier...


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

Darling little Kitty is SUCH a good momma rat. She's sitting on her babies almost all the time she's in the cage, and sometimes will jump down from me and run straight to the tank where they live right now!!! It's so cute!

And all are black, the boy and one girl have head spots, but they are all cute and growing well. Two are slight runts, but are growing quite nicely as well and are hardley noticibly smaller.  

YAY!!! Pics soon, I think...


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

*sigh* one of the girl runts died - a berkshire, and she was SOOO pretty. 

But, in consolation, all the others' eyes are open! It's so cute with them running all over... So it's one boy, and 4 girls now. I think I may have to keep the boy unless my mother-in-law adopts him (she took two of the boys from the rescue litter), but the girls should be OK with finding new homes... I think.

And they are soo cute just running all over... *sigh* I love the widdle wons...


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

where are you located in FL


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

West Bradenton - 4 hours from you, I think.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

hahaha

yup, about 4 hours depending on how many idiots have wrecked along whichever route you take (I-4, 60, 70, 80/27 or I-75) I've made the commute MANY times.

I lived in Bradenton for around 14 yrs & then in Tampa for a few more years. 

I was asking because if you were close enough I could helped out by taking a single boy. I don't like taking in singles but I can when it is necessary. I like to do pairs just in case intros don't go well. Since you are so far away I'm not sure I would be any help.


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

We'll see - I THINK I can get my mother in law to take a third boy, but if not I can likely keep the kiddo. I DO have the cage space and wall space... *sigh* NO MORE BABIES. No more adopting girls unless I KNOW the sourse or they are 5 weeks straight from Mommy (as in a breeder!)

LOL! I'll talk to you later if I REALLY need help, and I'd meet you where I needed to, but I think he'll be fine here. He's a nice BIG boy, but has a head spot and light variegation, so he's a high white... Stupid backyard breeders... Thanks, tho!!


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## CaptainFlow (May 16, 2007)

I demand photos.


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

you will get them when my neighbor gets home. My digi broke, so I have to use hers.


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## CaptainFlow (May 16, 2007)

GOOD! 

:lol:


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

It seems you have negative feelings about the rats in question. Just so you know... not every rat out there with these "high white" markings are doomed to the onset MC. 

Yes, I know there are many stories out there of MC & many groups of people out there that think any marked rat is a ticking time bomb but not every rat is doomed to the onset of MC just because they show these markings. But as a side note I do think that anyone unless they know what they are dealing with in regards to their rats history should purposely be breeding any rats. (regardless of variations/markings)

In my current colony I have several that have these markings & they are perfectly healthy. I was fortunate to find a breeder with a very healthy line of blazed, split capped & head spot rats that she has generations of history with & she has never had any cases of MC. I have know her for nearly a year now & I have spoken with a few people that have known her much longer & they too have seen no signs of MC. Lucky? Who knows. My whole point of posting this is because the last post seemed so negative & I wanted to tell you that their fate is not sealed. They may be perfectly fine & live long happy lives.


(lastly, I don't think there is a person on here that would say, awwww, their fine-- breed them. That would be unwise.)


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

lol - actually, I really like these guys, but... In comparison to the last litter it's not nearly as much. Reason: momma was 8 weeks old at birth and barely bigger than my 5 week old rescued rattie litter. I just hate how that girl let Kitty be in with a male that could impregnate her so early!!! I'm just irked at THAT issue...

And the rescue rats are mostly high-whites as well, so I'm not TOO down about that. I just don't know the parent's of Kitty, or the father, so I don't know how BIG the risk is for them. The rescue's mom was not a high white, but the dad was. (I'm still irked over them, just not as much) Here, I don't know if Kitty really is a high white (bareback mismark with three or four white hairs on her forehead) or not, and what is in the genetic materials of her and the father... It's not too likely, but I do hate that there is a chance, you know?

Plus I'm exhausted - hubby has barely slept in over a month, and I'm always a light sleeper so I'm up most of the time he is, my two year old is running me ragged litterally (covering herself with an old kids' waxy non-toxic paintish stuff that took nearly an hour to remove in the bathtub... Banging on rat cages... scaring the bird... breaking three PLASTIC cups today - how? I don't know...) *sigh* 

Any other day, and I'd be much happier... lol! I'll update later after I get the chance to play with them. THEN I'll be more positive. :mrgreen: (actually, just thinking about that is making me less stressed...)

so yeah, pics and playtime updates tonight! I wonder if they'll start chewing on me later today??


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## melon (Mar 27, 2008)

ok i have to ask, but can rats really have babies at 8 weeks???
i thought they couldn`t get pregnant until 6 weeks then it`s normally 21 days after that they have the babies?

i`m only asking as my vet told me to leave my litter with the mom until the day before 6 weeks as they were a bit small and she said they couldn`t get pregnant until then anyway. havign a bit of a panic since one baby has a little tummy but surely at 6 weeks it`s just baby fat??
sorry for hijacking this i just panicked when i seen that she had babies at 8 weeks :?


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

maybe the rat is a week older than she suspects

???

at any rate, there has been documented proof in community conditions of rats getting pregnant at under 5 weeks


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

here is a link stating they can get preggers at 5 weeks & most rat folk recognize this person & her knowledge on all things ratty

Rat Reproduction

by Debbie "The Rat Lady" Ducommun

Rats are very easy to breed. In fact, many people end up with unplanned baby rats! Rats can reach sexual maturity at 5 weeks of age, so the sexes should be separated prior to this age.

http://www.ratfanclub.org/repro.html


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

With most species, it depends on two things for when a female "matures", 1) age, and 2) weight. If a girl is small, she won't produce the hormones needed to become sexually mature. Female gymnasts and dancers are so low in their fat content in their bodies that they sometimes don't become "mature" sexually until 16 or so. And age is a big factor - if they have not reached the proper age, they will NOT be able to be sexually mature no matter what.

Thus, iguanas can be stunted from sexual maturity (boys and girls) if not fed properly - thus, they may NEVER reach sexual maturity, when normally they will reach it by 18-24 months of age. 

Your babies were pretty small for whatever reason, so it's very unlikely they were sexually mature by then. Often, it's between 5 and 6 weeks that a rat becomes "mature," But occasionally it can happen sooner. That's why with my boys from the other litter I separated at 4.5 weeks just to make sure - they were BIG, from what I could see and their approximate weights (not a digi scale, so I don't trust it.)

As for pics, tommorrow. Blaze, my first male, has a URI and I'm up feeding him protein shake from my finger - at least he's eating as much as I'll give him, as I write this one-handed... ...  poor boy...


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

Wow, didn't update for awhile, but here we go!!!

Kitty's six were 1 boy, 5 girls... Well, one girl black berkshire was a runt and passed away. One BLUE berkshire is also a runt. CinnamonSugar just had her litter (rescued 2.5 weeks ago), so I put the runt in with her in hopes the girl will grow stronger and bigger without such stronger competition (it's just 13 pinks against 1 runt with fur and open eyes... pinks have NOTHING on this one!)

And the runt is eating and getting fatter already! It's only been 18 hours, and it's working!!!  YAY!!!!!!!! 

Kitty is a great mom, but she's so tiny still! These almost-3 week old babies are HUGE compared to her, and I wish she were bigger cuz they are only 1/3 her size right now, and there are FOUR on her now! That's why I think the runt was doing so poorly, she just didn't have the ability to feed all 6. And that's why the runt is doing well now! 

Pics later!


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