# I need help..



## 481033 (Sep 11, 2016)

I honestly feel terrible right now, I posted a thread in the "Say Hello" forum and two people were telling me that I need to separate my rats and that I need to get a new cage. I'm only 13, my parents don't have 190 dollars to buy a critter nation. I feel like a really horrible rat owner right now and its stressing out me a bit.. The only thing I have for a cage is an aquarium and I didn't know that they could get sick from their own pee. I don't know what to do, I can't just beg my parents to buy me a critter nation cage because we are completely broke.. I need some help because there isn't much I can do.


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## Tiffany13 (Sep 11, 2016)

I understand not being able to afford it. I had trouble getting mine. You can try looking for facebook pages that are local to the area that are animal groups. Craigslist might also have cages (not necessarily a CN) Yes, unless you want babies from rats that are too young, they need to be separated. They are both young so you can get away with a Kaytee cage from a local pet store. The biggest one they have is for a guinea pig and it was the first cage i had. even if you only get one, you can still separate them. As far as having the aquarium, i would recommend having a good bedding that is really absorbing. the stuff i have is basically recycled newspaper. if you want i can tell you what it is. make sure to check the aquarium frequently. I would get baby wipes and wipe the inside walls once a day. If you noticed soiled bedding, you can always just take that it and replenish that spot until you do a thorough cleaning. I do a thorough cleaning every weekend. If you had wooden toys, i would give it a sniff test and if it smells like pee, then it needs to be replaced.
i dont know how your parents are, but if you think they would give you an allowance you can ask them for one and tell them you want to use it to be able to better care for your rats. if you want to seperate them asap, you can get a big storage container from walmart. This is not a good permanent solution but can do until a cage is available. that needs to be treated like an aquarium. You SHOULD not put the lid on if you do this. If you have nothing to worry about getting into it, you can probably just leave it off altogether if its big enough. I would do this supervised before trusting it. I hope this helps. Dont feel to bad, just in the future, try to do as much research as you can on a new pet.


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## 481033 (Sep 11, 2016)

Tiffany13 said:


> I understand not being able to afford it. I had trouble getting mine. You can try looking for facebook pages that are local to the area that are animal groups. Craigslist might also have cages (not necessarily a CN) Yes, unless you want babies from rats that are too young, they need to be separated. They are both young so you can get away with a Kaytee cage from a local pet store. The biggest one they have is for a guinea pig and it was the first cage i had. even if you only get one, you can still separate them. As far as having the aquarium, i would recommend having a good bedding that is really absorbing. the stuff i have is basically recycled newspaper. if you want i can tell you what it is. make sure to check the aquarium frequently. I would get baby wipes and wipe the inside walls once a day. If you noticed soiled bedding, you can always just take that it and replenish that spot until you do a thorough cleaning. I do a thorough cleaning every weekend. If you had wooden toys, i would give it a sniff test and if it smells like pee, then it needs to be replaced.
> i dont know how your parents are, but if you think they would give you an allowance you can ask them for one and tell them you want to use it to be able to better care for your rats. if you want to seperate them asap, you can get a big storage container from walmart. This is not a good permanent solution but can do until a cage is available. that needs to be treated like an aquarium. You SHOULD not put the lid on if you do this. If you have nothing to worry about getting into it, you can probably just leave it off altogether if its big enough. I would do this supervised before trusting it. I hope this helps. Dont feel to bad, just in the future, try to do as much research as you can on a new pet.


What if they are from the same mother? Will they still breed..? I don't have much experience since I bought these rats from Total Pet. I use shredded paper as bedding, we bought litter pellets but it was to expensive so we stopped buying it. I asked my mother if she could get me a critter nation not that long ago and she told me to get off this forum. I told her that I could probably learn some more experience from these people on this forum since they seem like professionals and my mother just ignored me. I will soon be making money on my own some time next month or possibly this month. If I can find a Critter nation on Facebook for a cheap price I might buy it but I will have to ask my parents and look into it.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

OK... So lets start by fixing what we can for as little as possible... Go out and buy a large or huge plastic tub (or two) or even trash can, Cut some big holes in it and cover the holes with a wire mesh... Have your dad help if he has power tools. You can make shelves inside the bin if you can or other things your rats can climb on... 

I know there are how to's on the internet that will give you details on how to make a bin cage, I'll let someone else post a link for you... The cage might not be pretty.. but it will be functional... And if you re-purpose your parent's trash or recycling bin or sweater keeper, they get to participate too.

The mesh material can be bought at a hardware store, or repurposed from elsewhere too... I don't know how creative you are, but at 13, this would have been a no-brainer... My dad had all kinds of useful things in the basement and attic and if he didn't my friends' parents did... I could likely make about half a dozen with junk laying around my own home now... And all you need is two.

There's a guy here who got into building rat cages for his wood rats out of wood and mesh... kucero... he had some serious skills and more than enough ambition to build one cage large enough for him to get into with his rats and play with them.. Critter nations are nice, but far from your only option... plus there are often big cages on craigs list at cheap prices.

As to girls and boys... siblings or not, if they are healthy you are going to have babies... lots of babies... If you don't separate your rats, you will be building lots of cages.

I am a big believer in finding creative ways to save money... I re-purpose things and I've rebuilt cars I got for a buck... or just to take away... I love saving money... and getting stuff for little or nothing. But your rats need what they need. The easiest way to get it is to go to the store and buy something fancy and pre-made full price, like most people do, the other way is to use your smarts and skills and make it happen yourself.... And by the way, I've used aquariums for rats, but I mostly left the lid open so they could come and go as they please... Free range rats don't need big cages... but you have to expect a little damage....

Like one of my miserable vermin unplanted and stole my last two catalaya orchids today... Seriously, do rats eat orchids or do they just hate them?

Back to the point, most people don't free range their rats like we do, so a big cage is a good idea... but it doesn't have to cost big money.

If you have to use paper shreddings, try to get and shred news print, it's printed with non toxic inks... there may be free newspapers in your neighborhood or maybe there's still someone who buys the paper who will be glad to give it to you after they are done reading it... 

Think cheap... be creative and best luck.


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## RatAtat2693 (Jan 13, 2016)

Good idea, Rat Daddy. You'd think that, for someone with four bins in her room, I'd think of that.

And cough one up for moonkissed for writing a How To on bin cages so I don't have to.

http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?284234-How-to-make-a-bin-cage

Look, I'm sorry you feel bad, but you can have to think these things through and research the things you want to do, especially with animals. I work as an adoption counselor for a large rat rescue, which means I talk people through adopting their next rat. Now, the things that we as a rescue recommend are meant for adults who have steady jobs and are able to take their pet to the vet, people who have money. The advice we give people is assuming that they live in an ideal circumstance, one where - should something go wrong - they can easily fix it.

Which is why, in many ways, the things we recommend are wonderful, but not always practical for a lower income individual.

This being said, if you can't afford a real cage for your current two rats, then where are you going to put the other 20 babies when they show up? Because I am willing to bet my next four paychecks that, if you have a male and a female together, there will be babies in a few months. I'm not doing this to be mean - but you have to think before you act.

_*So here's what I'm thinking:*_

If your parents aren't willing to buy you an actual rat cage, I doubt they're going to pay for getting one of your rats neutered or spayed. That's expensive, and unless you have some magical resource at thirteen that I didn't, you're probably not going to be making $100+ dollars to pay for the neuter... provided your parents don't look at you and tell you to stop spending more money on your animal (like mine did).

Take one of the rats back; I would recommend taking Smoochie back and getting another male so that you don't end up with way too many babies. It's not easy, but it's what needs to be done. If you can't afford two rats, you definitely can't afford 22 rats. And forget selling them, if that's your angle. You'll end up with at least 6 remaining.
Introduce the boys.
[HR][/HR]
As for the cage, follow the directions for the bin cage. Get as big of a bin as you possibly can, and wire all of it.
It should look like this when you're done:









[SUP]
(This isn't mine... and I don't know why they have two wheels for one hamster. >_>)[/SUP]

Again, just make it as big as you can. The beauty of these types of cages is that they can just keep going and going if you connect them with some PVC pipe and don't cut out the lid to the bottom container.










Again, not ideal, but definitely cheap. One cage should cost you around $20-35 Just make sure you have a wheel.

For hammocks, get some old t-shirts, whatever, and make a no-sew hammock. It's easy, just a lot of tying knots. Fleece is best, but hey, we're going back to my roots (being "I haven't eaten in three days" broke.) Yeah - I try not to reflect on my childhood much. You can hang them up with wire or twist/zip ties. (Get creative.)

For bedding, get aspen shavings. It's not terribly expensive and should last you two to three weeks. It's also not going to hurt your pet.

Lastly, for food, get them HT 2018 until they turn seven months in December. 10 lbs should get you through the rest of this year. After that, bump it down to the 2014/2016 formula to avoid tumors.
[HR][/HR]
If your parents fight you on the price of the food, remind them that rats only eat a pound of food a month, so a 20 pound bag of whatever food you're giving them is going to last you almost the entire year.

The main reason I'm being hard on you is because I have seen first hand animals die because they were bred too young, by people who didn't know what they were doing, in circumstances where they couldn't afford to take care of the mother in that situation, much less the babies that came out of it.

I don't want you to have to deal with "the miracle of birth" because it's far from miraculous to watch a mother eat five out of seven of her own babies. Or, like a horse I had the displeasure of being near, watch the uterus come out with the foal.

And even more, I don't want to see you posting in the Accidental Litters section, needing to know what you're supposed to do now that there's twenty rats in your room and you don't have the money to get a separate cage for the boys and the girls. There's enough unwanted rats in the US alone to cover whatever it is that you're about to produce. We don't need more.


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## 481033 (Sep 11, 2016)

Rat Daddy said:


> OK... So lets start by fixing what we can for as little as possible... Go out and buy a large or huge plastic tub (or two) or even trash can, Cut some big holes in it and cover the holes with a wire mesh... Have your dad help if he has power tools. You can make shelves inside the bin if you can or other things your rats can climb on...
> 
> I know there are how to's on the internet that will give you details on how to make a bin cage, I'll let someone else post a link for you... The cage might not be pretty.. but it will be functional... And if you re-purpose your parent's trash or recycling bin or sweater keeper, they get to participate too.
> 
> ...


I will try to figure something out.. 
Thank you for the information.


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## RatAtat2693 (Jan 13, 2016)

Oh, and are you anywhere near Montreal?


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## 481033 (Sep 11, 2016)

RatAtat2693 said:


> Good idea, Rat Daddy. You'd think that, for someone with four bins in her room, I'd think of that.
> 
> And cough one up for moonkissed for writing a How To on bin cages so I don't have to.
> 
> ...


Well, I came on this site to get help, but the only thing I'm getting is crap. I'm only a kid, and yes I might not know what I'm doing so this is what I am trying to do is get help. I've been crying for the past hour because you keep guilt tripping me, and now I'm getting anxious and I'm panicking. I don't know what to do with my rats now but I'd rather stick with Rat Daddys plan. If you are going to be hard on someone, please do it on someone who is not a kid.. I'd rather get proper instructions and actual help from someone like Rat Daddy or Tiffany, They have helped me so far and I'm happy with that. I've actually been getting a lot of information on this site.. I only tried helping one person and telling them a little bit of information that I've gathered off of this site and off this site. If you want me to leave this site since I'm such a bad owner, then I can. But like I said, I'm only trying to get help.


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## 481033 (Sep 11, 2016)

RatAtat2693 said:


> Oh, and are you anywhere near Montreal?


No, I live near Vancouver.


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## RatAtat2693 (Jan 13, 2016)

BaileyUniverse said:


> No, I live near Vancouver.


Man, you are on the other side of the country.

I have a spare Rat Manor that's taking up space in my bedroom.

And hun, I'm giving you an action plan and a cheap way to take care of your rats. You don't have to be rich to have pets, but you do need to be prepared.

I treat kids the same way I treat adults. Why? Because I firmly believe that most adults underestimate the abilities of children.

Try to convince your parents to buy in bulk, and keep researching.


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## 481033 (Sep 11, 2016)

RatAtat2693 said:


> Man, you are on the other side of the country.
> 
> I have a spare Rat Manor that's taking up space in my bedroom.


What were you planning to do with it?


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## RatAtat2693 (Jan 13, 2016)

BaileyUniverse said:


> What were you planning to do with it?


If you were in Montreal, give it to you.

I live, like, three hours from Montreal.

It hangs out on standby in case I have to hold a couple of rats overnight until transport the next day.


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## 481033 (Sep 11, 2016)

RatAtat2693 said:


> Man, you are on the other side of the country.
> 
> I have a spare Rat Manor that's taking up space in my bedroom.
> 
> ...


Well it isn't very nice to treat kids like adults. Most kids minds haven't really adapted to their maturity yet so you wont expect much "maturity" out of a kid if you treat them like an adult, most likely you are going to expect the child to take it another way and start getting sad, like I did. So please, be careful of how you speak to children, I have anxiety so I didn't really take your comments so nicely. I have cried a couple times because of how lost I was but now that I know what I can do, I'm not really that worried or sad anymore..
Other than that.. Yes, I am going to keep researching. Thank you for at least trying to help me.


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## RatAtat2693 (Jan 13, 2016)

World's not a nice place darlin. I've also met 13 year olds who are raising kids and taking college classes... most of which who I grew up with, and I'd estimate 70% of which were dealing with hardcore mental illnesses. (Schizophrenia, bi-polar, and yes, anxiety.) All of which were living at or below the poverty level, so forget getting treated.

Check out your local rat rescues, if there are any. Sometimes they set up funds for rat owners in need. Cages, medical bills mostly, which you'll definitely need to plan for as they get older. (If you haven't found out already, rats tend to get respiratory infections as they age.)

And for your anxiety, check out meditation. It's something my middle school English teacher introduced me to in sixth grade. I personally like this video, though to avoid the never ending talking, start at 2:50. All you have to do is focus on how your breathing feels and how this dude's voice sounds. Definitely want to use headphones if you can.

https://youtu.be/1vx8iUvfyCY

Whenever you start to feel yourself getting overwhelmed, find a quiet place and meditate, even if it's just for a minute or two. (In between classes, in the bathroom if you have to.) Breathe in, then out, focusing on how your breath feels.

It also helps me to walk barefoot. As long and you know nothing is going to hurt you, it's another form of meditation. Instead of focusing on your breathing, you just focus on how the grass feels between your toes or how hot the pavement feels. Is the grass cold? Sharp? Are there stray rocks on the pavement?


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## 481033 (Sep 11, 2016)

RatAtat2693 said:


> World's not a nice place darlin. I've also met 13 year olds who are raising kids and taking college classes... most of which who I grew up with, and I'd estimate 70% of which were dealing with hardcore mental illnesses. (Schizophrenia, bi-polar, and yes, anxiety.) All of which were living at or below the poverty level, so forget getting treated.
> 
> Check out your local rat rescues, if there are any. Sometimes they set up funds for rat owners in need. Cages, medical bills mostly, which you'll definitely need to plan for as they get older. (If you haven't found out already, rats tend to get respiratory infections as they age.)
> 
> ...


I usually listen to ASMR's to calm me down, and I know that you might have met 13 year olds who have raised kids, but am I a kid raising 3 children and working in college classes? No, I am not. Everyone is different, not everyone is the same.
I might actually look into some rat rescues around here. It might help me a lot.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

I read your other posts and you said your mom wanted to breed the rats...you said it wasn't for feeders...so what is the reason to breed those rats? You won't make any money as a pet rat breeder, and the rats will have aggressivity and health problems like many pet store rats due to bad breeding too. You don't have money for a cage, so your plan is to keep dozens of rats in your fish tank? Please contact a rat rescue or your local animal shelter and surrender those rats to them. It is the most responsible thing to do here.


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## rlstine (Mar 2, 2016)

Hi kiddo, I understand where you're coming from here. You're trying to be a responsible pet owner by finding a community of people who know the animals and can help answer your questions. I think it's admirable that at only 13 you're here and trying to figure out the best situation for you and your rats. 

Most people who are new to owning rats don't realize the level of care these animals require. Not to scare or alarm you, but I've owned several pets in my life, and none have been as expensive as caring for rats properly can be. Pet rats are not hearty creatures. They don't live long, they can become ill quite easily, and their vet bills cost a lot. I have no doubt in my mind that you LOVE smoochie and fluffy, and you want what's best for them. This may be very difficult, but what's really best for them is to be separated. They're far too young to have babies of their own, and the mating can happen very quickly (even if you're supervising them!). If you still want rats and can find some way to build a cage that works for them, I recommend making an ad on Craigslist offering one of the rats as a pet and charging a small rehoming fee (to ensure someone with a snake won't call!) and make sure the person interested in adopting your rat is up to the task. Ask lots of questions! Then you'll want to look on craigslist for another rat of the same sex as the one you kept (or you can use the rehoming fee and return to Total Pets). Rats do need to live in pairs, just same-sex pairs. 

And no need to worry or stress! You have the power (and now the information!) to help your rats live the best and fullest lives possible. Please keep us updated!


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## RatAtat2693 (Jan 13, 2016)

Gribouilli said:


> I read your other posts and you said your mom wanted to breed the rats...you said it wasn't for feeders...so what is the reason to breed those rats? You won't make any money as a pet rat breeder, and the rats will have aggressivity and health problems like many pet store rats due to bad breeding too. You don't have money for a cage, so your plan is to keep dozens of rats in your fish tank? Please contact a rat rescue or your local animal shelter and surrender those rats to them. It is the most responsible thing to do here.


...I think she gets the point, Grib.


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## Veileddreamer (Sep 21, 2015)

I remember being 13 and trying to make adult decisions, without the same resources as an adult.  It can be rough. I won't reiterate all the stuff about separating the rats, etc., but let's try and figure out a solution as far as making the bin cage.

From Home Depot, you can get all the stuff to make a bin cage for $23. They do a "order online, pick up in store" thing so if you can get your parents to take you to the store you should be able to just snatch up the stuff you've already paid for and leave, easy peasy. I calculated that price using this 56 quart Sterilite box, this hardware cloth, and maybe 3 packs of these zip ties. Little ratlets love levels and climbing, so I also factored that in, and that price includes this simple wire shelf you can put in the cage, too. 

You'll also need a drill or a soldering iron (they have a $10 soldering iron at Home Depot) to get the show on the road -- but I don't feel particularly comfortable telling you to use a drill or soldering iron, so I'll say ask your parents how they recommend you do the holes, as far as cutting out the "windows" and attached the hardware cloth to them. 

It's not the ultimate solution by any means, and the cage won't necessarily be built to stand the test of time. It will, however, prevent you from having zillions of babies in a couple weeks, which is definitely a plus!


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