# I got Alyssa a new friend....



## Alyssa_Rat

Well I was finally able to get Alyssa a friend!!! His name is TempleTon... yea its a boy. But its ok they dont share a cage and I dont plan on breeding them for a while ((if i deside too)). Its weird cuz Alyssa will try to umm "Hump" him but he ignores her even when she jumps on him and nips at him, Alyssa absolutly adores him. I would like to eventually get him fixed anyway so they can share a cage. Does anyone know about how much it cost to get a male rat fixed?? 

TempleTon is like twice as big as Alyssa, the only pet store that I could find that sell rats around here was out of females so I just went ahead and bought the friendliest, calmest and healthiest looking male of the 6 that were left. Hes really funny... when you go to pet him he'll just freeze and let you pet him all you want, its adorable. Its funny cuz I got him exactily a month after Alyssa, I got Alyssa March 19 and I got TempleTon April 19 ((sorry i didnt tell you about templeton sooner, i have the 3 day rule)).

Ive got a couple pics of him here:


----------



## Forensic

I'm sorry, I don't know much about rats yet, so this could be a stupid question, but wouldn't letting a male and female rat play together still leave you with a chance of pregnancy?

He is a very pretty boy though, I love his markings!


----------



## ladylady

congrats on the new rat  surprised about a few things you said.
Rats can mate in seconds-they'll do it anyware! no shame 
Breeding rats is complicated and needs expertese to get the healthyest friendlyest litters
Rats like company and might like somerat to curl up with, eat with ect
Not sure about fixing prices but it might be cheeper to take him back and get a lady cage mate when there is one availible


----------



## Poppyseed

Until he's fixed DON'T let them play together. A rat can do it before you know it, they are like so fast they could be mating and you won't realise it. Please let them play seperately.

He is very cute, get him neutered A.S.A.P. and THEN they can play. And please don't breed pet store rats, there are tons of complications that could arise from the unknown genetics. Lots of respitory problems and such. I know you said you would get him neutered but it also looked like you were wavering on breeding them and I'm just letting you know it's bad news for the mom and babies if you do. The babies could live a very short life and die horribly from bad genetics and I'm sure you don't want that on your hands. Not to mention there are tons of rats out there needing to be adopted.

That being said, did you buy a larger cage? What are the dimensions of the new one you brought your new boy?

He's a cutie by the way, just keep him away from Alyssa until you can go snip snippy him and you'll be fine.


----------



## Night

NEVER let intact female/male rats play together. 

Also, now that you have a new rat, you need a much larger cage.


----------



## Poppyseed

http://www.afrma.org/rminfo7a.htm

this is a very good article on why you shouldn't breed. I hope she's not pregnate.


----------



## Night

Also - why are you planning on breeding at all? You have absolutely NO idea what's in either rat's genetics. Only accredited, educated breeders with PEDIGREED rats should breed.


----------



## ladylady

v sad story


----------



## Alyssa_Rat

Well I always keep an eye on them when they play together but I dont think I should worry about them mating to much cause he acts like she doesnt exist... if anything shes all over him more that he even looks at her. Im figuring it shouldnt cost to much getting TempeTon fixed, as he is a small animal compared to a dog or cat. Im just worried he'll get sick after the prosedure or something. 

Now I do know TempleTons cage is to small for him but im working on getting larger cages right now for the both of them. and I think im ganna make my closet a temporary cage for him as its bigger than the cages hes in now.

Yes I was debating on making 1 or 2 litters out of them once Alyssas old enough, just so ill have some exsperience with baby rats for the future. Plus how are you suposed to become an exspert at breeding rats if you dont breed them. I know hamsters arent the same as rats but there close enough and I bred hamsters for 3-4 yrs so I do have alot of exsperience with baby rodents. Alyssas only 4-5 months old right now anyway so itll be a month or 2 before she can breed ((and im not planning on breeding her more than twice)).


----------



## Forensic

Well, I would think that yes, everyone has to start somewhere, but they should start with rats with lines that are known to be good lines, so that they can build a good reputation with the people receiving the kittens...

Keeping an eye on them is good, but if he does take an interest for even a moment, I doubt you could stop anything before it happens...


----------



## Night

Oh my god.

First: You should have checked out prices on neutering in your area WAY before considering bringing a male rat home.

Second: Since you don't consider Alyssa's cage small at all (even though it really, REALLY is) I worry what kind of cage you have Templeton in.

Third: Stop letting them play together. It's a completely moronic idea.

Fourth: Why on earth do you need experience with baby rats? The way a person gets experience with baby rats and breeding, is by being mentored by a real breeder. Not by putting two random rats together, completely without thinking, just to do it. You have absolutely no knowledge of raising rats, and you should NOT be doing it. You have no idea what either rat carries in their genetics or lineage. 

Also - if you're worried about the price of a simple neuter, you need to steer clear from breeding. What happens if there's a problem with the labor? Just walking through the door of an emergency vet's office is $75-$100. A c-section can be upwards of $500. Do you have that kind of money?

You shouldn't be planning to breed either of them AT ALL.


----------



## ladylady

if you read the link poppysead posted you wont want to breed them. If you want rat babies consider fostering a pregnant mum or litter, or if you want to be a breeder, start saveing and educating yourself.
I have read somewere that rats mate in less than 5 seconds (very unseramonious!) so It would be risky to let them play together. 
The closet sounds like a palace! Sounds really cool if you are ok giveing up your storage


----------



## Poppyseed

Please, for the love of your OWN rat discontinue their playing together. You don't want her pregnate, you don't want her and a possible litter to die and you don't seem like you can afford the possibility of a c-section. With thousands of rats out there NEEDING homes, rescues overflooding with unwanted unhomed rats, there really is no excuse for you to risk it. I know she needs a friend, but not at the risk of her life. You won't be able to stop it if they do it, it could take a split second and if seperated could hurt the male and female and the sperm could already be deposited.

I KNOW you care for Alyssa which is why I scratch my head at you never taking advice. You may be hard headed and MAY think you know everything but the fact is no one here does. Please take the time to read the link I posted and please keep your rats from playing with eachother UNTIL you neuter your male.

And a female rat can get pregnate as young as five weeks old.


----------



## Alyssa_Rat

Well with the closet i dont use it for storage so its basicly empty and its not as big as a normal size closet ((maybe half that)) but its big enough for him to live in temporaly.

Well the thing with rats with bloodlines is there way to exspesive for... a rat ((in my personal view)).. they only live like 3-5 yrs. and what if I started my own new blood line, i plan to start my own rattery eventually anyway so why not start with 1 litter this year.. keep a female baby and when that baby is about 1-2 yrs of age breed her and so on.. and i could document it all. Ive done my homework and new rat blood lines are started everyday, you cant posibly think they knew what the first ever bred rats bloodline was so it wouldnt hurt to start a new bloodline. and i could work on getting the papers to prove the bloodline once its started ((alyssa and templeton being the start of the bloodline))

I dont know everything about rats so yes im always taking advice from other people forums and even if i dont say im taking your advise i usually do. And again the only way to become an expert at breeding rats is to do it, learn from your mistakes, fix them and do it again till you get it right. Like when i bred hamsters, when i first bred them a few babies died then after breeding them a couple times i new what i was doing and i dont have problems anymore.

And yes i know rats can breed at only a couple weeks old but i read from several places that its best to breed a rat between the ages of 5-8+ months old. And they dont really sell rats in ma. ((as it was hard for me just to find alyssa)) so i think it would be fairly easy to find the babies good homes as i know of severely people looking to adopt rats.
and they dont have many rats around here so itll be imposible to find and foster a rat with babies, and i dont know anyone who owns rats.


----------



## Sara_C

Woah. I'm truly shocked. And i thought i'd heard it all.

To add to the concerns that everyone has already expressed - where would you keep the babies? If you can't afford a bigger cage for Alyssa, or a neuter for your new rat, how are you going to be able to afford a nursery tank, plus seperate cages for the males and females when you are weaned? How are you planning on finding them all homes? Do you actually know anything about breeding rats?

Choosing to breed Alyssa seems selfish - it will put her through immense stress and pain, and possibly lead to complications, either during the birth or later life. Instead of investing time and money into breeding her, i'd get your male neutered and get them a bigger cage.

Please don't breed her. This is verging on animal cruelty. I can't see why anyone would choose to put their animal through pregnancy, especially when the owner is so young and can't provide proper housing.

Sorry if i come off harsh, i'm just concerned for your rats.

I just think you're far too young and inexperieced to be doing something like this. If a rattery is what you want to start, begin by getting in touch with professional breeders and learn the tricks of the trade. Breeding pet store rats is not a good idea. They might be born with birth defects (as one of my rats was) and be very sickly.


----------



## Vixie

Alyssa_Rat said:


> it wouldnt hurt to start a new bloodline.



Yes, it could. Breeding unknown rats could create mutations and disfiguring complications that may be genetic. 




Alyssa_Rat said:


> I dont know everything about rats so yes im always taking advice from other people forums and even if i dont say im taking your advise i usually do. And again the only way to become an expert at breeding rats is to do it, learn from your mistakes, fix them and do it again till you get it right. Like when i bred hamsters, when i first bred them a few babies died then after breeding them a couple times i new what i was doing and i dont have problems anymore.


WHAT!?!?!

*NO. NO NO NO NO NO. You do NOT risk the lives of animals just to 'learn from the mistakes". That is morally WRONG and an innacurate way for you to learn. You do not have the tools neccesary to take samples of the DNA and see what went wrong.* 



Alyssa_Rat said:


> And yes i know rats can breed at only a couple weeks old but i read from several places that its best to breed a rat between the ages of 5-8+ months old. And they dont really sell rats in ma. ((as it was hard for me just to find alyssa)) so i think it would be fairly easy to find the babies good homes as i know of severely people looking to adopt rats.
> and they dont have many rats around here so itll be imposible to find and foster a rat with babies, and i dont know anyone who owns rats.


It's good to see you've thought ahead, but still, NO. It would be inhumane and illogical for you to breed your rats. You don't know what kind of genes they have, you don't know whether or not they're prone to myco falreups, you don't know if the rats may possibly have a genetic defect making the females in their litters barren, or the males sterile.


The ONLY way I would REVER reccomend you breeding is if you talk to a credited and experienced breeder, ask if you can follow them through a breeding and pregnancy and help out with the work. After a few years of that, maybe then you could take a pair from the litters you've helped birth and breed them. That way you will know their genetic background, you will have had experience, and you will be able to plan for the best and the worst.


Proper breeding, in no way, will make you money. It will cost you money. So don't go thinking down that road.


----------



## ladylady

I know very little bout breeding and whatnot-How do you start another bloodline? Who do you choose a pair that will be healthy and friendly while staring a new carateristic?


----------



## Poppyseed

They aren't expensive at all. If you aren't willing to pay a simple $35 for a rat who has a proven and healthy pedigree then you really shouldn't breed. Rats that deliver babies could require a c-section costing hundreds of dollars. Do you have a rat savy vet nearby? Also if you wish to start a new bloodline it could take YEARS of stillbourns, breeding unhealthy rats that die by the time they are 12 months, paying vet bill after vet bill for rats that you bred that you couldn't find homes for, purchasing HUGE cages for your rats, etc. You think a breeder rat with a proven bloodline is expensive yet what about in the future when you have a rat with missing eyes or limbs because of bad genetics? Or one with a lower immune system? Now THAT is expensive.

IMO, don't breed. You are too young and hard headed right now to do such a thing to your poor ratty. Take your time being a kid and take the time to love both of your ratties with their SEPERATE playtime until you get him neutered. You said you don't know any rat lovers in your area, that's more than enough reason right there. Maybe there just isn't the ratty demand over there which leaves you with 12 possibly deformed babies to take care for the rest of their lives, if a litter even survives.

Also hairless girls tend to be horrible mothers rejecting their babies or not lactating properly. If you don't have a back up mommy to foster DON'T breed hairless. Even if she is a double rex with a little fur she could still have these genes that make her bad at mothering. Sure she may seem loving to you but one a litter comes and she kills them by neglect that blood is on your hands, not the rats.

Worst case scenerios happen, more often than you think. Please don't breed yet. Maybe you want to breed in the future and that's fine, but do your research, TONS of it. Foster litters, even if you have to wait. Find people in your area that are rat lovers, get connected. In the end years of waiting before breeding will pay off.

Please think before you breed. I know your young and reading a few things here and there is a ton of research to someone who is young and new to rats but I'm talking YEARS of research and finding connections. You've only been a rat owner for a few months and don't even know about proper cage requirements. Take your time for the love of your own animals and the future little fuzzy lives you want to take in your own hands.


----------



## ladylady

Heres a few bits Ive found so far-

Hobby breeding is unlikely to be an economic success story. If you are going to feed and house your breeding rats, and their kittens well, provide veterinary care where needed, and go out of your way to make sure your babies get to their new homes, you will find that it probably costs you money to have a litter rather than you making a profit.

Taking two beautiful rats and putting them together wonï¿½t always result in a litter of rattie Miss Worldï¿½s, and you can easily take two rats of your favourite varieties (say silver fawn and blue) and produce a whole litter of agoutis. Rather more thought and knowledge of the lines the rats come form, and their genetics is needed.

Breeding to improve a variety is a long term commitment. Along the way you will probably accumulate more rats that you intended (those that never make breeding standard, those who you couldnï¿½t find homes for, those returned due to changes in circumstances, those you couldnï¿½t resist keeping because they were different, or just plain cute).

Before choosing which individual rats to breed from, do as much research as you can into the variety you have chosen to breed. Find out who else is breeding them and talk to them. All varieties have difficulties and glories that are specific to them, be sure you know what these are before beginning.

Then find out about the health and temperament of the extended family (parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents etc) of your chosen rats. If you deem this information to be important you may be cautious of using any rat for whom you find it difficult to glean this information. Breeding from unknown rats is a bit of a gamble and not the best place to start off in case things go badly wrong (for instance if there are temperament issues you could end up with a proportion of your kittens being aggressive, causing harm or needing castrated before they are a year old). If you are placing rats into pet homes you need to fully embrace your responsibility to be producing healthy and well mannered babies, who will be a joy to own. Breeding from healthy well mannered parents, from healthy well mannered lines is the best that you can do towards guaranteeing the same for your babies

It is my personal opinion that temperament and health should be first priorities when breeding, and that every mating should have the potential for improving desirable traits in the next generation (health, excellent temperament, body type etc).

http://www.shunamiterats.co.uk/ethics.html


----------



## Night

If you think buying a pedigreed rat is too expensive, you have no business breeding at all.


----------



## JulesMichy

Sara_C said:


> To add to the concerns that everyone has already expressed - where would you keep the babies? *If you can't afford a bigger cage for Alyssa, or a neuter for your new rat, how are you going to be able to afford a nursery tank, plus seperate cages for the males and females when you are weaned?* How are you planning on finding them all homes?


If you listen to nothing else, listen to this. Breeders don't make money, they lose money. If you can't afford adequate cages and routine surgeries such as a spay/neuter, then how on earth do you plan to be able to afford to feed, house and get vet care for upwards of a dozen rats for each litter that's born?

Breeding is *expensive*.

I'm appealing to your personal gain here, because I don't think you care about what happens to the health of your rats, seeing as you consider them nothing more than a means to an end.


----------



## Poppyseed

Joshu was bred locally here, by someone who breeds feeder rats. People who breed feeders do the same thing you are doing, don't look at genetics just toss a couple random rats in a cage and hope for the best. The people DID breed for temprement in a very crude way so their babies were all very personable and loving.

However Joshu died at 8 months of a mass in his heart. Imagine, you having a litter of 13 rats, maybe you have found homes for 1-3 if you were lucky but you have 10 left. So now you have 10 rats with possible genetics like Joshu. His vet bills cost me $300 just to find he was dying and there wasn't anything I could do about that. Most of your rats will have the same genetic disease. So now you have 10 rats who cost at least $300 by the time they are 8 months old only to have most die. Some might grow tumors elsewhere, leading to costly surgery and follow up surgery.

You are stuck with 10+ genetically defective rats IF YOU ARE LUCKY. Hope your mom can pay for the vet bills, there is no way you can adopt all those out especially if you know of no rat owners. After 8-15 months and possibly sooner you have 13 dead rats on your hands...

All because you chose to breed irresponsibly. Also any rat owner you breed out to has the same cost out of the supposibly bred correctly rats. They don't know what they are getting into because YOU don't as well. Their money loss is also in your hands and all your fault.


----------



## Sara_C

This is also a good example of what happens when rats are bred without knowing the genetics behind the parents. I haven't got a good close-up of Oscar, but he's blind. Not just blind - he was born without eyes. I wouldn't change him for the world, but breeding babies that could have disabilities isn't only irresponsible, it's downright cruel, not to mention unnecessary and selfish.


----------



## DarkDesires814

First of all, did you ever get a bigger cage for Alyssa? After reading your thread from when you thought she was pregnant and seeing your complete disregard for everyone's advice and your own rat's happiness and I have no idea why you'd get another rat. Especially a male. As was already said, if you've been keeping your girl in a cage obviously too small for her and saying it's fine I can't imagine what you have your new boy in if even you are calling it small. And another thing. Many people have told you to get Alyssa a friend so why would you buy another lone rat? That makes no sense at all. Even if you are letting them play together (which I'm not suprised of considering how irresponsible you seem) doesn't make up for them spending the better part of their days alone.
Now, as for breeding them. You said you couldn't afford a proper cage for your first rat. Every single baby you breed is going to need just as much space as everyone has told you Alyssa needs. From the research I've already done about breeding that alone will cost you a couple hundred if you can't place the babies. And since you have said you don't want to spend much money on your rats (There are several breeders out there who charge under $20 per rat) because of how long they live I get the feeling you're not going to be paying many vet bills. Because, after all, they only live 2-3 years so who cares if they get sick. 
If you cared for your rats at all you'd be too concerned with giving the ones you already have proper care to even entertain the thought of breeding. Sometimes I really wonder why some people get pets.
And if that seems rude, I don't care. I could have been a lot worse. All I've seen you do is ignore people's polite advice so maybe someone being rude to you is what you need.


----------



## Rachel-Phantom

My vet charged me $30 to neuter two male rats.
Price varies obviously because I've heard of obscene prices like $300 for a simple neuter. The best thing to do it call around local vets and ask.


----------



## camel24j

i hate to say it but everyone is right. just throwing 2 rats together you never know what is going to happen take it from me i breed feeder rats for 5yrs and i have come up with alot of strange problems bumps are the norm but swolen legs on newborns and they dont get better i had some missing ears and lots of still borns and a whole lot of other things let me tell you it is not cheap to feed and keep everyone clean i had about 400 rats at one time right now i dont have any. if you love your pets as much as you say you will not breed them. and yes i have had rats die giving birth i am your worst nightmear on here if you only new the stuff that i have done in the time i breed you would hate me. but i will say i dont think i will breed rats from now on becuse my bf dont see $$ signs on them but i will be breeding feeder mice at least i get to keep my faverats as pets but they to have problems becuse of just throwing 2 together. take my word go to a good breeder and talk to them and let them show you whats involed. and maby they can show you the expense they have to pay to keep up there rats.


----------



## Alyssa_Rat

Now i never seid i was ganna breed her, i was debating on it. and even if i do deside on it itll be months before i breed her so by then I will have the propper stuff to do it. I am for shure ganna get TempleTon fixed, i was just hoping to make at least one litter to start with. And the whole thing with complications during the pregnancy and birth.. no affence but i dont think people should freak out so much about it, like yea i understand it happens but i dont think it happens as much as you say because theres always people breeding rats. Now i do know a breeder that i will contact about breeding rats and stuff. i would have gladly baught one of her rats but she dosnt live anywere near me so i cant. I just would like at least one litter so that when the time comes ill have some sort of exsperience with rat breeding and babies, but again that wont be for a couple months. and i didnt breed my hamsters for the money so i wouldnt breed my rat for the money, i would do it just for the fact that id like to have some exsperience with baby and breeding rats.

Well what about pet store rats?? those are just bred from a couple fat breeder rats in the back of the store yet people buy them and they are perfectly fine.... they dont have problems.


----------



## Forensic

We're making a big deal out of it because that 'deal' involves the health and life of a pet that you love.


----------



## Alyssa_Rat

I hear lots of stories about people having accidental babies on this site yet you guys dont say anything about that and most of all there rats were fine!!!! im starting to feel put out here... theres lots of things i se people doing wrong with there rats in my point of view but you dont se me ragging on them about it ((and im not saying what)). i understand your just trying to help me out but is there such thing as posative thoughts on this forum, cuz all ive heard since i got on this site was nagging from everyone.


----------



## Forensic

Ragging on people about having an accidental litter won't help. The rat is already preggers or already had kittens. At that point it's damage control. But _prevention_ is always best. I'm sure I do many things with my rats that aren't to your liking. But I do try to listen to suggestions when they come. I hope you'll do the same in this instance.


----------



## JulesMichy

Alyssa_Rat said:


> Well what about pet store rats?? those are just bred from a couple fat breeder rats in the back of the store yet people buy them and they are perfectly fine.... they dont have problems.


They _do_ have problems. Or have you not read what Sara and Poppyseed posted? Any rat lover worth their salt will tell you never to buy from pet stores because you are supporting a corrupt industry that churns out unhealthy animals like a factory. Animals that come from mass-breeding facilities and have congenital health defects. This applies to puppies, ferrets, bunnies and any other animal you see in a pet store, including rats.


----------



## DarkDesires814

An accidental litter is just that: an accident. There is a difference between someone realizing a rat they bought or adopted was already pregnant and someone buying a male and a female and announcing that they want to breed a litter just to get the experience.


----------



## camel24j

ok first the rats breed at the pet store you said they were fine i worked at a pet store and here is what really happens behind the doors first if any rat dies giving birth or if a baby has problems it is put down and put in the frezzer for sale or if it is a baby it is used to feed the snakes and or lizards that the store has at the time so the ones you see in the cages for sale are the healthy or half way healthy ones the ones with problems are promply killed and frozen i use to work as the small animals section and we did that with hamster gerbils and so forth if they are to agreesive they are also killed now do you really think pet stores rats are fine? and by the way i dont care really what you do becuse like i said i have done everything wrong with rats. but i just wanted to point out that if you love your rat like i love my dogs than you mite want to consider what everyone is saying. but it is up to you and you alone to decide.


----------



## Poppyseed

You don't need experiance with litters. You need to focus on the health and wellbeing on your two rats FIRST and NOT breed. Grow up, get a job, live on your own and research and THEN maybe then breed if you still feel it's nessesary. I don't really see why you are wanting to do it so much. What is in it for you? Why do you want to raise the babies? Experiance doesn't seem like a real excuse to me because you refuse to listen to advice, sounds like you just want a bunch of cute babies to dote over and all will be happy and rosey and everyone will want one D: Life is not that easy unfortunately.

Don't breed petstore rats. In fact DON"T breed. DO save up money, get your boy neutered. Stop them playing with eachother and get a much larger cage. That's really all you should be concerned about. I don't care if you plan to wait a few months because if you continue to have them play together it won't be a few months at all. It will be only a few weeks D:

You're a first time rat owner and a kid, listen to advice. No we don't get onto the people with accidental litters because they were an ACCIDENT. Most came pregnate from petstores that thought it would be alright to let the males stay with the females and they never seen them do it so they should be alright huh?

Alright, I've said my piece, poured my heart into this. Maybe you will learn to listen when your rat is dead or when your home is over ran with homeless rats or you have to find a shelter to give all these rats to and the little girls are pregnate because you didn't have a proper inclosures thus making MORE homeless rats. Those are the scenerios I see happening with you.

Of course you're not reading a thing we are writing. You just selfishly want cute babies at the cost of many hard lives you are going to create D: Have fun with your deformed overcrowded and/or abused babies!


----------



## Alyssa_Rat

im not a first time rat owner.. ive had rats for over a year. and im done with this convo... yes im ganna get TempleTon fixed for shure and im ganna get new cages but in my case thats ganna take some time so deal with it.


----------



## Poppyseed

Alright, just don't let them play until then.


----------



## ladylady

Accidental litters are hard to accept. For one, how can such an accident happen? For two, they are preventable. For three, what kind of babies will be born?
What I'm about to write is the hardest thing in the world for me:

A couple of years ago, I picked up two pet store rats. My beautiful Blue rex named Reef and a beautiful sweet PEW named Prin and bred the two together. I was ignorant of the facts, of genetics, of genes. I was plain stupid. I had done research on birth but not breeding. I put the two together and 3 weeks later 12 beautiful black/chocolate babies were born: Charlie, Pinto, George, Sven, Lex, Sullivan, Niko, Tanzie, Candy, Celia, Tiki, and Mitsou. These babies were wonderful. In fact, I was suppose to sell them to a pet store but decided against it when I saw their sweet little faces. BUT: when a couple of the boys matured, I noticed they became aggressive to people: they had the aggressive gene. Pinto needed to be castrated and a couple needed to be socialized and showed that alpha was the human. Meanwhile, Reef, the dad became extremely sick with myco, another extremely bad trait to pass on. Then at 15 months, Charlie dies of lung cancer. Sure enough, Mama Prin develops cancer herself. Now we know that the gene is passed along in her kids. Prin suffered immensely, while we just sat there and watched and wondered which other of her kids will suffer too. Well, it's sweet gentle Sven. Sven has indeed cancer, he has suffered through a really hard leg operation and may even lose his leg.

Never mind the unbelievable emotional turmoil we all suffer, there's the money thing. Prin cost Nic, my sister, well over $1000 just for treatments. Sven has so far cost my mom $600 and more if his leg is amputated.

I was STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. I didn't do my research, I didn't look into genetics, I was stupid. I wish I came to PetRatsCanada first and have a bunch of people jump on me and tell me DO NOT BREED!

So there you have it:

* Are you ready to assume the responsibility of babies that don't have homes? Pet stores are not homes.
* Are you ready if complications occur during birthing or miscarrying or a baby stuck in the canal?
* Do you have money to pay for emergency caesarean?
* Do you have money to house these babies?
* Are you ready to accept the responsibility for the genes your rat may pass along?
* Can you watch your babies die of cancer? Zucker gene? Megacolon?
* Do you have the time to socialize daily with these babies? 

Ethical ratteries:

Good ethical ratteries are here to help make the life of our beloved rats better. They are constantly trying to produce babies with the least health problems. They are not here to make money, they know they will lose money, but that's ok, if it means your rats will live longer and happier. Their time is spent on the rats, food, research, vets, habitats, climate, everything is for the rat. Above all, always looking for better, always researching and asking: why? or what can I do now to make a happier, healthier rat?

Please think long and hard before you make that very important decision to breed. Please think first about all the lost rats in shelters. Please, just think about these new lives you will be creating...

Thanks,

Joanne 

http://mooshika.org/breeding.html


----------

