# To Neuter Or Not To Neutur



## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

I have heard a lot of discussion about this over male rats (With females its pretty obvious you should spay them) and I just wanted to know, is it an absoloute need to neuter them for health benifits? I DO NOT like to put my animals in uneeded surgery for the risk they might not react well to the anesthisia (I dont know how to spell it) or something might go wrong. I do not mind a musky odor (I have a terrible sense of smell) and I have a strong tolerance to urine marking. If there are any real health benifits, Ill consider it. So, will it improve their health or is it just to get rid of scent and urine marking?


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

With males neutering provides almost no health benefits unlike spaying. It would be essential if needing to live with intact females or if the ugly Hormonal Aggression rears its head...the hormones in a young teen/adult rat can sometimes cause huge personality changes where they attack their cagemates, or bite you and other humans...its not their fault, its the overload of hormones which the neuter almost always takes care of


----------



## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

Your boy is wild so I wonder if that would make a difference in opinions ... you can ask the vet for a light mask. I know how you feel I was terrified putting my babies under but it had to be done. I have had 4 rats put under the smallest is my 250 gram girl and all went well. When your boy hits puberty I just worry how much he will change


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

elliriyanna said:


> Your boy is wild so I wonder if that would make a difference in opinions ... you can ask the vet for a light mask. I know how you feel I was terrified putting my babies under but it had to be done. I have had 4 rats put under the smallest is my 250 gram girl and all went well. When your boy hits puberty I just worry how much he will change


An actual wild rat Elli? Eeek...roofie or a rattus N? My halfie boys HAD to be neutered, as they were dealing with their wild instincts and then to add on the hormonal factor was too much for them.


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

lilspaz68 said:


> An actual wild rat Elli? Eeek...roofie or a rattus N? My halfie boys HAD to be neutered, as they were dealing with their wild instincts and then to add on the hormonal factor was too much for them.


I'm wondering if you guys are confusing him for me? I'm the dude raising the wild rat baby. Unless I'm not the only one with a wild pup here. 


And, yeah, in response to ME neutering him - I've weighed all pros and cons and I've set aside money to cover his neutering. It's non optional. As soon as his eyes open I'm calling around for price quotes at local vets and taking care of a plan. It's just mandatory, for my safety and for his overall stress and health level. 


In response to neutering all males? No, not at all necessary. Unless their hormonal changes set them into swings that make them unhappy, on edge, over violent, or over territorial, males are perfectly all right intact. Keep in mind with wild males you're almost certain to have these problems and to find a wild rat that didn't would be a one in a million find. 



Also, my baby is a Rattus Norvegicus.


----------



## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

Sorry I was reading your thread before this one so I got a little confused. Unless your boy has hormonal issues snake lover there is no need to neuter him


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Hahaha I was wondering how many wildies we had on this particular forum LOL


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

lilspaz68 said:


> Hahaha I was wondering how many wildies we had on this particular forum LOL


Its sad that I was sure I was the only one so my first response was "oh you mean me!" not "I'm not alone!". Lol. I'm still alone. Dang.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

unlikelyfather said:


> Its sad that I was sure I was the only one so my first response was "oh you mean me!" not "I'm not alone!". Lol. I'm still alone. Dang.


socialize like mad...he's got all his instincts fighting against his being a pet, so I am sure you are doing it, but don't slack, even for a day if you can help it. Handle him all the time, do things to him beyond patting and stuff, gently put him on his back, pull his tail, his toes, his whiskers and ears...pretend to look at his teeth, basically attempt to make him bomb-proof hopefully.


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

lilspaz68 said:


> socialize like mad...he's got all his instincts fighting against his being a pet, so I am sure you are doing it, but don't slack, even for a day if you can help it. Handle him all the time, do things to him beyond patting and stuff, gently put him on his back, pull his tail, his toes, his whiskers and ears...pretend to look at his teeth, basically attempt to make him bomb-proof hopefully.


He dislikes being on his back but I can touch his tail and his paws and rub his neck and belly. I can look at his teeth and so on. I'll work on putting him on his back. I handle him every four hours and feeding commonly takes an hour to two hours. The issue is that there's a mad dash to sterilize everything after holding him so if I keep him out I prolong my exposure to anything he may have which means I'm touching stuff etc. 

I just hope I can remember everything I touched and go back to clean it. Lol. He lets me stroke and pet and play with his tail. So far the only sign of wild in him is when food is introduced. He bites the syringe and tugs on it with his teeth, even going so far as to climb up onto it and bite at the plunger end.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

unlikelyfather said:


> He dislikes being on his back but I can touch his tail and his paws and rub his neck and belly. I can look at his teeth and so on. I'll work on putting him on his back. I handle him every four hours and feeding commonly takes an hour to two hours. The issue is that there's a mad dash to sterilize everything after holding him so if I keep him out I prolong my exposure to anything he may have which means I'm touching stuff etc.
> 
> I just hope I can remember everything I touched and go back to clean it. Lol. He lets me stroke and pet and play with his tail. So far the only sign of wild in him is when food is introduced. He bites the syringe and tugs on it with his teeth, even going so far as to climb up onto it and bite at the plunger end.


Why are you sterilizing? How long have you had him now?


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

lilspaz68 said:


> Why are you sterilizing? How long have you had him now?


I've had him since September 9th at 5:19 AM. I had to check. I'm sterilizing things because he's wild and I'm not sure what he may be carrying? Precaution and all. Should it still be necessary at this point? Also, wow, it's almost been a week... 5AM tomorrow morning makes it a week. Which means he _was _about 7 days old when I found him, since he seems to be about 13-14 days old now. (He has all of his fur just about, but his eyes still aren't open.)

Anyway, back on topic: 

Neutering for wild or half-wild males, pretty much mandatory. There may be some cases in which it isn't, because we have to remember that wild rats were domesticated and that couldn't have happened if _all _wild and wild-descended rats were impossible to handle... However, these cases are going to be like finding a needle in a haystack. You should never count on that being the case for you.

For domestic males, pretty much unnecessary unless they've developed testicular cancer (very rare) or you have two males who are extremely aggressive and something is going on there with behavior, etc.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

unlikelyfather said:


> I've had him since September 9th at 5:19 AM. I had to check. I'm sterilizing things because he's wild and I'm not sure what he may be carrying? Precaution and all. Should it still be necessary at this point? Also, wow, it's almost been a week... 5AM tomorrow morning makes it a week. Which means he _was _about 7 days old when I found him, since he seems to be about 13-14 days old now. (He has all of his fur just about, but his eyes still aren't open.)


If you don't have other rats there really won't be anything to worry about.  You can just wash your hands like a regular person now LOL

Sorry again for the hijack Snake Lover


----------



## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

Its alright, I was actually uncomfortable to come back in.

I am planning on getting a hairless is the problem, and because they are so susceptible to cuts since they have no fur to protect them, I was kinda worried about hormonaly enraged fights. I am thinking it through a bit more and Im thinking of getting two males, either hairless or fur depends, if they have them. If not,get a haired (And this also works vise versa. I plan on getting them in a nearby reptile expo and Exotic Pets had some hairless males in August and their attending the next reptile expo so I am expecting them to have them again this year, if not I wouldnt have too much trouble locating some ratties).


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

Normal alpha-establishing fights should not leave cuts or injuries on the males, so if they're hurting one another then they would need to be neutered anyhow.**** There may be squeaks and squeals but unless there's blood it usually isn't a fight you would need to neuter or separate them over. Therefore, two intact hairless males should be fine. If they're from the same litter or gotten from the same place there's less likelihood that fighting will go brutal, though it doesn't remove all the chance of it happening - it's just better because the rats already know one another and have an established relationship.

When you get them, make sure they interact well with one another - watch the males in the cage for a bit and then make your selections based on behavior. You want a rat that looks healthy, calm but not lethargic, and has no indication of aggressive behavior or sneezing/sniffles/red around or in the nose.

Good luck finding them and I'm glad that you're choosing an expo instead of a pet store.


**** - You may only have to neuter one of them to correct this problem and if it happens I suggest checking this guide out here: http://www.ratballs.com/RatTails/Tails103.html --- It will help you make an informed decision on neutering and help you figure out which of the rats is the one causing the conflict, which will save you money and also unnecessary surgeries for your boys.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Snake Lover, as first rats you probably should not get hairless...they have a lot of issues that can often lead to more vet care than a furred rat. They are prone to skin issues like cysts, eczema, etc...they are definitely prone to eye issues, and I have taken in too many nakie rescues and had to have their eyes surgically removed because they had already ruptured. They can get debris into their eyes and then a vet is usually require to flush those eyes out under anesthetc...stick with furred rats for now.


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

He stated in the other thread that he has an emergency vet fund, so the cost of vet visits may not be a deterrent.


Snake, if you plan to get hairless I do suggest doing research. You seem like the sort of guy who does his homework.


----------



## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

Yeah, SHE has a vet fund saved up and SHE does do research (Getting the point SHE's trying to get across?).

I have been doing research on the special needs for hairless rats and I will be doing more (As much as I can before writing it down in a journal which I do with all my pets). I do know how to treat any wounds that may or may not show up, and I know how to accommodate the warmer temperatures they need (I have quite a few reptile heating pads (Which I have as spares since they do need to be replaced every now and then) that I will place under the cage and a hide and have plenty of fleece on top of it as well as a digital thermometer to make sure it doesnt get too hot or cold (Oh and a thermostat forgot to mention)) and the higher protien diet.


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

Sorry. You didn't state your gender at any time (that I've read) and I assumed it was 'he'. My bad, ma'am.


----------



## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

It's alrght, I should have mentioned it somewhere.


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

Man, you have a pibble, an emerald, and a mau? I envy your life. I used to work a bit with the Emerald Tree Boa at the aquarium I worked at in my teens. Always loved maus and pit bulls. Jealous.

But yeah, it's no big deal. Just an assumption, my bad.

Vet fund = good idea, and with all of your specialized pets I have no doubt that you could learn the care for hairless rats.


----------



## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

Ha-ha, they are all a handful. Termite: Seperation anxiety and he can open the front door. Sweetie Pie: She is always knocking things (Most often glass) over and breaking them, as well as tearing up all my plants if she gets the chance. Spice: He doesnt actually have a problem. Most people say these snakes are super aggressive, but he is calmer and tamer than my king.


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

I've never seen an Emerald be aggressive, but then again I've only been around a few of them. They seem slightly independent but I wouldn't say that that makes them aggressive. Either way, you have special snakes and two dogs that some would argue need specialized care (pit bull definitely, german shepherd probably) in training and whatnot - so I'd say you can confidently handle some hairless rats.


----------



## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

No I mean they tend to bite and be aggressive in a bitey, hissy way, not an independent way. I could be having him curled up around my neck right now with no problem, but he's in the blue at the moment and I dont like messing with them when they are still developing their new layer of skin. 

Specialized training is needed with them (Only Termite for now cause Isabella is still pretty young and we only got her a month ago) but it is just to show who is alpha. I dont even really think Termite needs it cause he is super submissive and shy around strangers (And every one except me). He is just a big scardey-cat. Its storming outside right now and he is under my bed whimpering himself to death, what aggressive animal does that?


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

Most pits I've met have been hearts of gold and just undersocialized. It's a tragedy.

Anyhow I say go for the hairless, they'll be lucky to have you.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Its up to you, but you can still end up at the vet a lot with furred, but more of a guarantee with hairless...just wanted you to know, most people are unaware.


----------



## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

What he doesnt have in courage, he makes up in personality. He has never even growled at a person before except when we first got him (We got him from a no kill shelter and he was from an abandonment situation) and he was pretty untrusting of people, but slowly I fed him treats through the cage and talked to him and spent almost all of my time with him, and take him for car rides (Which all of my dogs love, but Termite tries to climb up in my lap while Im driving and I'll be yelling at Matt to get the dog in the back franticly, even when I pull over to the side) and he turned out to be one of the best dogs I ever had.

And thanks. I really have always wanted these since I first found out about them and since I was four I had dreamed of owning rats, snakes, and a handful of other animals. I had snuck my first snake, Houdini, in the house from my old friend who was moving out of the state and had kept him in my closet for two months, getting a baby sitting job to pay for his food and substrate and everything else. When my mother found out, she threatened to kill him with the butcher's knife, dont know how I convinced her to let me keep him (And then Spice when I was 13).


----------

