# Legalizing Pet rats.



## hilli (Jun 6, 2007)

Hello again!  

as some of you know my name is Hilmar and i live in Iceland,and pet rats are illegal here.

The reason is this:the Government thinks that they will escape and destroy Icelandic nature.

so what do you guys think would happen if some pet rats would escape out in the nature?

me and a group of people are making a letter to send to the government but we need a little information about this:do you guys think that Pet rats could survive in icelandic nature? eaven survive the winter's?


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Domestic rats - probably not. But that's just my initial impression. They're not suited to cold temperatures - and unless they find somewhere nice and cosy to spend the winter it will be very hard to survive.

Then again, we have seen time and time again what little miracles these fluff-butts really are - so who knows. But for the sake of your letter - say no and hope they let you keep rats lol


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## hilli (Jun 6, 2007)

Would you happen to know of any research data about what Pet rats can tolerate? (Regarding heat and cold)


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

You've asked this before, and I know I may be argued with, but yes, they could survive. Rats survive almost everywhere except the north and south poles. They're very smart and they'd know where to find heat. Even pet rats, though some may not survive, some may. Now, as to destroying Icelandic nature... that's another story. If you don't currently have rats, I'd think introducing a new species could be quite bad for the environment.


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## hilli (Jun 6, 2007)

''Awesome''

We can forget getting Pet rats legal than.


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## glindella (Sep 9, 2007)

Just another point, rats aren't the only pets that could 'damage' the environment. Feral cats have been known to decimate bird populations. 

Also, aren't there already rats in Iceland? Released domestics would fit the same niche as wild rats. I really doubt pets would be released in numbers large enough to change anything drastically


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## hilli (Jun 6, 2007)

Thanks!  

But,could you tell me where Pet rats are legal?

i mean in how many state's?


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## Charlet_2007 (Nov 10, 2007)

here in Missouri they are legal...


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## bmwing01 (Dec 7, 2007)

it's very true though, if rats aren't already present in Iceland, the introduction of them could greatly alter the environment, in a negative way. Any introduced species will more then likely compete with the native species for resources. I love my rats and i feel bad that you can't have ratties too but i do understand the concerns of your government. To make a good argument you will have to research what role wild rats play in their environment (what they eat, where they live, ect.) and make sure that it would not compete negatively with any native species of animal or plant. Of course this is all hypothetical guesses, you'd never truly know until the problem occurred.


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## hilli (Jun 6, 2007)

Yeah,we have wild rats.

There are a few Pet rats here though,two petting zoo's have a few rats (Legal) and some people.but there are maybe 8 Pet rats in iceland.


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## Macabri (Oct 8, 2007)

Sometimes it's hard to know what the real problem is concerning illegal pets. Here in California ferrets are illegal. However, the same is not true in most other states. I have no idea why that is.

Could it perhaps be an outdated law that no one has seen fit to change?


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

If you have wild rats, I don't see the problem... 

Well, actually, which species of rat do you have? Black Rat (roof rat, etc) or the NOrway Rat (the Brown rat)?

The Norway Rat will try to run the Black rats out if that's all you have.


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## sweet_dreams91 (Oct 19, 2007)

wow, that sucks...


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## hilli (Jun 6, 2007)

We have/had the Brown rat and the Black rat.

Pet rats,Ferrets,Turtle's,Lizard's and snake's are also illegal.

I'm getting pretty pisst!!! the icelandic Government think's that they can just take EVERYTHING away from us!

Just imagine if you live'd in Iceland,imagine you had no Pet rats at all.try to understand how i feel.

I'm just asking for your help,do it for us.please?


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## CaptainFlow (May 16, 2007)

Geeze, it's like your government is run by a poor veterinarian! Only dogs and cats, please... 

I do get where they're coming from, though. Rats will survive, and rats will destroy things around them (not to be mean, but they have to eat and stay warm just like everything else, it just so happens that it's easy for them to chew into a house to stay warm!). But if you already HAVE wild rats, not sure it's a problem...

Could you maybe ask to have a license created for owning pet rats? Obviously a good rat owner isn't going to let their rats go if they get bored with them, or let them breed, or breed with wild rats, etc etc like your government probably fears would happen if the common person decides on a whim to get rats and then gets bored with them. But if you had to get a license, it seems to me like that would weed out a good number of the shoddy pet owners...


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## yashu (Sep 14, 2007)

This is why I advise rat lovers to not go running to authorities to complain about "abuse"... if enough loud people do it the right to own a rat can easily be taken away and here is a perfect example. 

Rats can survive in the wild... pet rats are of the most hardy strain, the Norway rat, although not originally from Norway, it is certainly the most populous wild rat in cities and towns.

Anyway... I don't think there are many places that don't have wild rats... so I am not sure about this explaination about why, I think it is more based on ignorance like all the ferret bans.


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## Macabri (Oct 8, 2007)

yashu said:


> This is why I advise rat lovers to not go running to authorities to complain about "abuse"... if enough loud people do it the right to own a rat can easily be taken away and here is a perfect example.


Do you think the same would be said of people reporting the abuse of dogs or cats? I think the likelihood of this is pretty slim unless there is a HUGE uprising of people reporting abuse. If that were the case, I'd rather no one own them over having abused animals on our hands.

In this case, however, I think there is a difference between the idea of reporting rats as "pests" and reporting "abuse". Apples and oranges.

All other things aside, we also don't know exactly what the case in Iceland is. It's probably closer to your mention of ignorance in relation to owning ferrets.


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## rat_ratscal (Sep 23, 2007)

hilli said:


> there are maybe 8 Pet rats in iceland.


why not make it 10?? :twisted:


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## hilli (Jun 6, 2007)

Oh,it will be,Trust me!


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## yashu (Sep 14, 2007)

Dogs and cats are the alcohol and tobacco of the pet industry... no matter what happens they will always be legal.

The dog and cat industry has a LOT more to lose and they are the image of "wholesome family pet"

You don't think it could happen... but it has happened in many many counties across the USA with ferrets. So count your blessings and don't be too squeeky of a wheel.


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## Macabri (Oct 8, 2007)

yashu said:


> Dogs and cats are the alcohol and tobacco of the pet industry... no matter what happens they will always be legal.
> 
> The dog and cat industry has a LOT more to lose and they are the image of "wholesome family pet"
> 
> You don't think it could happen... but it has happened in many many counties across the USA with ferrets. So count your blessings and don't be too squeeky of a wheel.


Not being allowed to have ferrets has NOTHING to do with people reporting ferret abuse. Again, apples and oranges.

From Wikipedia:

_Ferrets were once banned in many US states, but most of these laws were rescinded in the 1980s and 90s as they became popular pets. Ferrets are still illegal in California under Fish and Game Code Section 2118 and the California Code of Regulations.

Additionally, "Ferrets are strictly prohibited as pets under Hawaii law because they are potential carriers of the rabies virus"; the territory of Puerto Rico has a similar law._

Where in there does it say anything about people reporting ferret abuse and the locals governments taking away pet privileges?

If you're going to debate this, please do it in a way that compares reasoning and facts. There is a big difference.

I'd hate to think people would stop reporting abuses based on what you've posted. They are not going to take away the ability to own rats/cats/dogs because people are being responsible citizens. I think you're more worried about government interference in your life than the well-being of the animals.


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## yashu (Sep 14, 2007)

Sigh, I hate it when people try to quote "reaseach" out of context and then draw conclusions from it.

It says SPECIFICALLY that ferrets were outlawed because of the fear of them getting into the wild, while at the same time, all research points to domestic ferrets are completely unable to survive in the wild.

So... why did ferrets get outlawed? Simple ignorant fear... and how does one breed simple ignorant fear? Draw attention to something that the general population frowns apon. Think of rats like lawn darts... they are fine until some moron blames them for losing an eye, in other words, it doesn't matter what brings the attention to whatever it is that is taboo, all that matters is that suddenly uneducated and ignorant authorities are going into reactionary mode. This usually means more laws, more regulations, and more bans... just like ferrets. Contrary to research, a bunch of whiny people brought a bunch of other ignorant people's attention to the animal and the idea, wholly unsupported by research, that ferrets could somehow escape and cause havok. 

I am telling you... it doesn't matter what it is that brings the issue to the table... whiny people crying rat abuse just happens to be the most likely reason this might happen, then you have uneducated lawmakers seeing the words "rat" and "pet" and are like, whoa there... no way can we allow blah blah blah, could infest blah blah, could reek havok on blah blah farm, or blah blah whatever other uneducated unresearched guess. 

The last thing you want to do is bring an issue that is taboo to most people to the table of anyone of any authority. Rats happen to be taboo for most people. Most people think they are pests... and it would be best if the pet rat community just enjoyed their little nitche and be glad that nobody has yet made a 20/20 episode about the pet rat. Chances are, it would be unfounded dumb science, and it would not be very positive, like it or not.

You forget that we may be a liberal bunch here, but most people would love to kill your rats. They would have no thought what-so-ever in poisoning, trapping, killing your rats, pet or not. That is how they see the rat, as a pest. 

Draw too much attention, and the results may not be positive, that is all I am saying. I only used the cries of rat abuse as an example of what draws attention to the rat.

EDIT: forgot one thing... all research states that domestic ferrets cannot live in the wild, however, research shows that your pet rats CAN... Ferrets were better off than rats when they got banned, they had hard science backing them up, yet still banned. Rats have science pointing to them being able to survive putting them in a worse position. Be careful, is all I am saying. Iceland isn't the only place in the world that has people that would be capable of banning pet rats.


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## Macabri (Oct 8, 2007)

Edited: Never mind, it's not worth it.


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## fridayinluv (Dec 17, 2007)

I sort of understand what yashu is talking about. It's a similar situation with pit bulls. Why do these lovable dogs have such a horrible reputation? Because, in the wrong hands (those of animal abusers), they can become very, very dangerous. That is why a small percentage of these dogs has had violent behavior bred into them--they were bred to fight. However, most of the pits I know are cared for and are wonderful dogs. Still, there are many areas where this breed is banned outright. Regardless of whether you are responsible or not, you cannot own a pit in these areas. Okay, so it is not a direct analogy to the rat situation but--what the government, as well as ignorant people are fearful of, is that rats will be abused--and then they will escape, and then they will breed like crazy, or they will bite little children, or they will spread rabies, or they will destroy the ecosystem-- the line of worried thinking goes on.

Of course, that is why responsible pet owners need to speak up and stand up for their pets! = )


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i think for that reason, a a license would be a good idea. with a license the potential owners would have to think about getting the animal and take steps prior to getting the animal to prove that they really want the animal and will care for it. the reason a lot of rat owners become owners is because of impluse (heck its often why we get more--GGMR any one?). it doesn't make all owners bad but it does allow in a lot of bad owners too. i got a rat from a kid that was about to let her go in the wild because her mother found out and made her get rid of it. i got two rats once from a person that bought 2 females and a male on a whim and planning to breed them and make money once they turned 2 (she didn't even know the average lifespan). got another rat from a horrible abusive and neglectful situation. all of them were originally bought on a whim. a license for them would prevent that from happening at least somewhat. 

but if you are going to offer a license as a solution to some possible problems you're going to have to demonstrate that there are enough people that would get the license to make it worth it. a petition may help here. 

other then that though, i think if you can find out exactly why they are against pet rats you can better argue against them. if it is about the eco-system and you already have the brown rat, then the few released ones are not likely to affect much. sure they CAN survive in the wild but their chances are slim compared the wild ones. the domestic ones are used to food given to them and shelter being provided. its like a city person left out in the middle of woods with nothing. it will be very difficult for that person to survive. they won't know what to eat or how to find proper shelter. sure, if enough people were left in the woods a few of them would survive, if they met up and cooperated then more would likely survive. but i still firmly believe many would die of exposure, predation, illness or starvation simply because they don't know how to live out there. the same is true for pet rats, but on a grander scale as much more things are out there wanting to eat them. 

in any case, if you can find out the exact reasons of your country for banning rats we may be able to help you out better


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## yashu (Sep 14, 2007)

fridayinluv said:


> Ibut--what the government, as well as ignorant people are fearful of, is that rats will be abused--and then they will escape, and then they will breed like crazy, or they will bite little children, or they will spread rabies, or they will destroy the ecosystem-- the line of worried thinking goes on.


Hitting the nail on the head.

I am the kind of person that believes that education is a much more powerful tool than complaint. Anyone can complain, and there is no telling what the reaction will be, it could be positive, it could be very much the opposite of what was intended. It happens all the time.

Now, when you spread knowledge, education, then it becomes a growing system of awareness that can act as a net of protection, and it often makes it's way right into the "system" you are trying to change. You see it all over the world, from the days of Gladiators that would win the crowd to stay alive, to today's political system where the fast spread of knowledge over the internet has been changing history like never before. I could go on and on and give hundreds of specific examples, but the crux of what I am saying is that if rats are banned in a certain area, the only way that it is going to be reversed is through research and education. Rats are more likely to breed in the wild than pit bulls, ferrets, and so on, so there is no way that we can pretend that they are somehow "safe".

The OP lives in a country where pet rats ARE banned. It happened there, and the only way combat things like this is to educate the "colosseum crowd", make them cheer instead of jeer, making it that much harder for Caesar to stick his thumb down.

When people say that knowledge is power, that statement means more than personal gain. Knowledge is a powerful force, complaint is just annoying.


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