# Biting



## JasmineTara95 (May 25, 2011)

Hello everyone,

I'm having a bit of a situation and I'm not sure why it's happening or how to fix it..

My little girl Lily is about 8 months old, gonna be a year on May the first and I've had her for 5 months.
But since about a month ago on about 4 occasions she's bitten me, it's been hard and agressive, she drew blood the first time but since she hasn't but the weird thing is she's actually getting worse. 
She bit me really hard the other night twice whilst she was out playing and the first time I had my hand next to me and talking to my mum and all of a sudden I felt a surge of pain in my finger and she had grabbed me and obviously I shreiked out of shock, I tried to pull away and she wouldn't let go, but to my shock she didn't break the skin which suprised me cause the pressure but my finger was left swollen till the next day, then i was mesasging on my phone and she lunged out of nowhere and bit the side of my hand again which shocked me.

All the other few times shes bitten me it's been whilst i've had my hand in the cage doing bits or giving them a stroke which I had always done since they settled in, she's so loving an cuddly for the rest of the time, but i'm getting unsure of her sometimes now because she's getting more vicous!

If you could give me any advice or experiences i'd be greatful!


Oh yeah and her and Pepper are both on Tylan and have both been taking it for a few months due to a never ending sniffle since I brought them home, they've also had baytril after Lily had a bad virus or infection? where she got really bad but she recovered and she seems to be getting better then ever but now she's biting me..? I never had these problems with my boys and I have booked into the vets on tuesday because i want to see what they have to say.

It's like she just snaps and is a different rat, and there will be a week or so or a couple days between bites, it's so random?!


thanks - sorry about the long winded essay! ???


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## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

Bop her on the nose and say sternly, NO!
I also tend to grab the rat and shake her. No messing around. Never has one of my rats made the same mistake twice.


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## JasmineTara95 (May 25, 2011)

DustyRat said:


> Bop her on the nose and say sternly, NO!
> I also tend to grab the rat and shake her. No messing around. Never has one of my rats made the same mistake twice.


I did try that one time. She didn't seem to respond.. I did however after she bit me I sternly told her no then picked her up so fast she got a bit of a shock .. But didn't dishearten her 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Well, she could be being bratty and trying to get your attention. 

Have you punished her just the once or every bite?


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## Leraine (Feb 21, 2014)

Did your hands smell like food either time? Do you recall having handled anything that may smell interesting/tasty to a rat?

I have read that some rats will nip to get attention, and that some rats seem to get a kick out of their owner's reactions to being nipped. 
I read it compared to people shouting at their dogs for barking. The human thinks yelling at the dog will punish it, but the dog perceives the yelling as the human getting excited, so they think it's a good thing. The human inadvertently "rewards" the dog with yelling, and in the future, the dog barks to get the human to yell. 

She may be biting to get your attention, or she may be doing it to get your reaction! In addition to stern "No!"s and snout-bopping, it may also help to more gently punish her by immediately putting her in time out, and leaving her there for a while. I read in a book that some rat owners use a "jail cage" which is a BORING cage that just has a water bowl or a water bottle. No food, toys, or interesting furniture. Misbehaving rats go into the jail cage. The reason you want a jail cage instead of putting them back into their regular cage is that if you put them back into their regular cage every time they do a certain action you don't like, you may be inadvertendly teaching them to, for example, bite you when they want back into their cage.

If you use her main cage as her jail cage/time out, when she gets hungry, or gets bored of being out, she'll bite you to be put back into the cage! By using a jail cage, you decrease the chance that there is she will find positive about her time-out punishment. When she learns that biting means 20 minutes of boredom, she may decide to stop (if she's biting you for fun in the first place, vs say, mistaking your hand for food or something).


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## JasmineTara95 (May 25, 2011)

No i did put her in time out the other night after the 2nd bite, but it was in her own cage. I normally wash my hands before I get my girls out and it just seems way too agressive to be for my attention because sometimes it was whilst I was trying to get her attention. I sternly say NO everytime and bop her on the nose, and I almost shreiked last time she bit me too because it was so hard before I told her off, she's been fine with me since, but I'm sure it'll happen again.

And i heard being stern to your rats because they are so little they find it intimidating so it's supposed to put them off, i'm just so worried because she's been poorly on and off the whole time i've had her, i've pretty much spent 350 pounds at the vets in the last 5 months!!! 

I hope it's just a naughty thing that I can try and wean her out of, I don't give her any treats after she's bitten me and I don't give her cuddles as such after wards.
I might have to look into getting an extra cage as a jail cage, yeah so i only put her back the other night after her bite, that's the first time i've put her away after naughty behavior!

it's just so odd because it only started last month or so?  i guess i could be looking into it to much, just worried about the whole tumor on the brain thing, cause i've heard lots of rats get agressive when they get tumors so. I could put her in her carry case when she's naughty when we're out. and keep her there for 20 minutes and put water in.

My other girl Pepper she nips ocasionally but she doesn't do it hard and i do discorage it and she's way better then she was, but Lily never bit before that and she just does it really hard and doesn't want to let go. I mean when i give them treats i'll call their names and have my hands sort of closed and they will come over and i will pass them the treats or let them take them, themselves. but i keep my hands open when I don't to show them I have nothing for them.


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## Maddie (Jan 13, 2014)

Ouch, I'm still learning since my boys are my first pair to really work with. I've posted here a few times about the Boys nipping (not aggressive bitting like yours mostly nipping). I've gotten to where I swat mine away, and I'm probably not just extremely gentle. Telling my body "no" and bopping their nose didn't do much but they sure don't like being swatted. That kinda gets my point across pretty fast.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Time outs for rats are like time outs for cats. They don't work. Booping, pinning, swatting etc are the only ways that work. 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I wouldn't withhold love or abuse your rat. Punish for bad behavior and that is it. They should know they've done wrong, and that you've forgiven them. It is not overly stern to the point of intimidation, which I would call abusive. It is tempered with love, your role is like a parent. 


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## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

You can also pin the rat on her back and hold her there for 30 seconds or so and give her an evil eye while telling her she was bad. Biting has to be curtailed right away. Two of my previous ratties would nip my toes in the hopes of me chasing them to play or just for attention. But niping and actual biting are two totally different behaviors. Even my current girls will happily grab my hands and put their teeth on me, but that is all that happens as we play together.


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## JasmineTara95 (May 25, 2011)

Know i know wouldn't withhold love i mean i wouldnt go and give her cuddles right after shes bitten me, she comes back to me when she's ready. it's a bit drastic to call it abuse, 'd never abuse them, I love them to peices.. I meant more intimidated in a sense where they realised they have done wrong and not happy with the way i'm feeling towards them, i don't shout and i never hit her i just tap her nose gently with my finger, i probably used the wrong wording, I still let them go where they want if they want to snuggle in my jacket but I wouldn't go out of my way to scritch her behind her ears after shes taken a chunk out of my hand, I don't want to scare her or put her off me but i do want her to know it's wrong what she's done, that's why i've asked advice. I've not withheld love atall I just don't cuddle her or play with her after she's been naughty for a little bit. like you do with kids. but as soon as i put her in her cage i give her, her dinner and a little stroke afer they've eaten before I sleep and a little treat some nights too. but i'm trying not to reinforce the bad behavior.

I've never tried putting her on her back before, i'm taking this all into account thanks!


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## Leraine (Feb 21, 2014)

I tried the stern "No!" and nosebopping technique on my girl during those first few weeks, but as you said, I was afraid of putting her off or intimidating her, so I stopped. It was also when I just got her, so I didn't want her to associate me with anything negative. That, and I suspected that she didn't quite understand what she was doing, and I don't think she intended to hurt me. For a while, my boyfriend and I would try squeaking or going "eep" or "ee" when she put her teeth on us, because I read that rats may understand your squeak as an indication that you are in pain. I am not sure how well squeaking or bopping worked. What ultimately worked for me was Rat Daddy's immersion technique (which I think is stickied at the top of this forum) which allowed me to socialize/bond with my rat. This meant I could play with her a lot more, so she could become used to my scent. I also think that after immersion, she began to trust me more, because she became much more open to trying the new foods that I offered her. (The first few days I got her, she would ignore cheerios, popcorn, bananas, yogies, grapes...and other treats that I would leave in her cage). After she began eating those new foods more readily, I think she learned what they smelled like and would smell my hand before biting it to see if I had food. 


I am not sure why exactly your girl is biting now, but I just remembered that females in heat can change behavior. Is your girl spayed? I have read that females in heat may be more agitated, but I have not been able to confirm this firsthand, and my female is already spayed. Females come into heat every 4-5 days. Females in heat can act jumpy, especially when you touch their back. I have also read that they may vibrate their ears or arch their back if you touch their back, and they may also vibrate their whole body. Before my girl was spayed, she didn't exhibit any of these behaviors, even when she was in heat. One way to tell when a girl is in heat is that their vagina will look purple instead of the normal peach/pink color, and it will also look more "open." 


It may be worth checking to see if she is in heat the next time she bites you, because then it may just be a heat-related change in behavior. Take this with a grain of salt, though. I have not yet heard of females biting specifically because they are in heat, but I am not the most experienced with rats. I've only heard that females in heat may act differently than normal.


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## JasmineTara95 (May 25, 2011)

That's interesting. 
I popped to the vets with her on tuesday and he cleared up it was unlikely anything to dow ith her nervous system or brain, tumors ect..
Which i felt so relieved and he went through the food on hands thing, but because i work at a zoo i always wash my hands and change my clothes before i handle them because i don't want to spread disease or you know.. just to be cautious.

So we cleared that aswell all it could come down to that he said was her being grumpy from feeling poorly even at a low grade of discomfort can cause grumpiness and stress, so i just need to keep doing what i'm doing spend lots of time with them, add enrichment like i've been doing so she doesn't get bored and keep giving her the good diet too. he mentioned i'd have to keep her on tylan long term because her breathings rattling and it's probably damage from when she did have the infection (resp).

The other thing he mentioned was that she could possibly be doing it for attention (like mentioned above) and he said rather then bopping or what ever cause that is a form of attention, just ignore her, move her back to her cage or into a carry case ect and just ignore her for 15 minutes every time and she'll then realise she can't get attention by biting. so just to try and nip that in the bud.

But i'm so relieved shes not got any signs of tumor on the brain ect. just to try make her feel better and let her know what shes doing is naughty, thank you everyone! 

If there are anymore sugestions or anything i'd be greatful to know! 

P.s (she hasn't bitten me since i posted this, just waiting for the next time or hopefully never!!)


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## Motoguy (Mar 25, 2014)

Your story sounds similar to mine....Mimi the first rat i obtained was doing the same.....I got her on a Friday March 21 she was really pleasant but a few days later i would say Monday i had a long day of work then had to attend my sons birthday party he is 2.....well near the end of the party my wife thought she was getting ready to have the baby so i had to rush her to the hospital so we did not get home until about 1130 that night. The next day on Tuesday eve i got home from work and she said MiMi bit her so i opened the cage and went to pick her up the she nibble at my finger. She seemed to change overnight i mean she became very aggressive. So i thought she may be lonely in that big cage all by herself. So on Thursday we picked up another female and named her Rose and placed her in the cage with with Mimi. Well Mime instantly showed her dominance by climbing all over Rose and every so often she would grab Rose and just pin her still for a few seconds. Then go back to the bottom of the cage but as soon i would leave the room she was back at the top level of cage picking on Rose. I could not baby sit Rose all night so i just put MiMi in a smaller cage we had for our hamster overnight till we could get another cage the next day. I really like MiMi but as long she remains aggressive i will have to keep her in the smaller cage. As for Rose we picked up another baby female when we bought the new cage for Mimi. Rose and the new baby rat get along so well...playing all the time and chasing each other. I rally dont want to get rid of Mimi she is very beautiful but not sure as of right now. I am new to these creatures so trying to find out as much as i can about them. She has calmed down quite a bit i must say but i pick her up with gloves now until i can be sure the aggression has subsided.


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## JasmineTara95 (May 25, 2011)

Yeah rats can be funny, it's a way of communicating to you but its not always easy to figure out like with Lily biting harder each time, she's lovely in between bites, like she'll go a week or 2 before trying again it's just like she has a split personality.. which is sad because her nice side is cuddly, inqusitive and cheeky but in a really good sort of way, but you just have to try prevent it from happening, i've never gone and got a baby rat on their own so i think the fact she was lonely could of started that, rats can get agressive if they get bored and lonely, maybe try slowly introducing her with your new ones again but slowly, on neutral grounds.

I'd rub a tea towel on your 2 new girls and then on Mimi as it'll give her their scent before hand and the other way around too, just for short periods of time even if it's during their free range and put their cages close together but not so they can reach through to each other, and maybe take a handful of bedding out of each cage and scatter it in other one, just so they slowly get to know scents of each other!! 
Mimi might be happier if she manages to settle with the other 2 she'll be less bored and lonely and it will show!


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## Motoguy (Mar 25, 2014)

sounds like a good idea....i actually was thinking of slowly reintroducing them but just trying to fig out the best time. The tea towel sounds pretty good also. will give it a try.


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## Motoguy (Mar 25, 2014)

Motoguy said:


> Your story sounds similar to mine....Mimi the first rat i obtained was doing the same.....I got her on a Friday March 21 she was really pleasant but a few days later i would say Monday i had a long day of work then had to attend my sons birthday party he is 2.....well near the end of the party my wife thought she was getting ready to have the baby so i had to rush her to the hospital so we did not get home until about 1130 that night. The next day on Tuesday eve i got home from work and she said MiMi bit her so i opened the cage and went to pick her up the she nibble at my finger. She seemed to change overnight i mean she became very aggressive. So i thought she may be lonely in that big cage all by herself. So on Thursday we picked up another female and named her Rose and placed her in the cage with with Mimi. Well Mime instantly showed her dominance by climbing all over Rose and every so often she would grab Rose and just pin her still for a few seconds. Then go back to the bottom of the cage but as soon i would leave the room she was back at the top level of cage picking on Rose. I could not baby sit Rose all night so i just put MiMi in a smaller cage we had for our hamster overnight till we could get another cage the next day. I really like MiMi but as long she remains aggressive i will have to keep her in the smaller cage. As for Rose we picked up another baby female when we bought the new cage for Mimi. Rose and the new baby rat get along so well...playing all the time and chasing each other. I rally dont want to get rid of Mimi she is very beautiful but not sure as of right now. I am new to these creatures so trying to find out as much as i can about them. She has calmed down quite a bit i must say but i pick her up with gloves now until i can be sure the aggression has subsided.


Well the gloves are gone and i am back to picking her up and petting her and holding her. She doesnt even get jumpy when the kids are petting her. Was kinda nervous about that but she seems to be her old self for now. I will keep an eye out to see it the biting returns. Still have to see if reintroducing to the main cage with the other two is going to work out.


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## JasmineTara95 (May 25, 2011)

Sounds good! Just try getting them used to each other's scents again, sounds like you are doing well x


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