# Worms



## WiccanWolf (Apr 4, 2007)

What do you guys think about giving a rat mealworms, beemoths ect? We bought some beemoths for our gecko to help fatten her tail up and she ate a few but picky thing she is won't touch them after being tricked into eating some dead ones. So, we have a bunch of beemoths in the fridge and so I tried giving one to my rattie, Trouble, one day and she absolutely loved it. Now, I have heard that they will eat crickets and so forth but I never tried it. She really likes the beemoths though. I know they are fattening *in essence why we got them for the gecko* and so feed them sparingly but I just wanted to know what you guys thought about it. Of course, I'd also heard that rats will kill mice because they are mortal enemies but I had a couple of rats living with a mouse once because I aquired a homeless pet mouse and nowhere but the rat cage to keep it in and they got along fine. lol

^.".^


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## tasha (Oct 16, 2006)

that's a pretty cool story about the mouse, because I've heard they will usually kill a mouse on sight because rats are territorial. I think I read a post here before that said giving crickets is fine, or mealworms, it turned into a whole MORALS issue because crickets are living things or whatever but as far as health I'm sure it's fine. I personally wouldn't go catching wild crickets or something but lol store bought ones should be okay.. I think I might try it too.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Whoa, wait, you kept a mouse and rats together? That's an extremely terrible idea. You should never, EVER have different species housed together like that.

Mealworms and such are great to feed. Just don't feed too much (only a couple a week or so) since they're high in protein.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

If the mouse and rat get along ok you don't have to seperate them, Saying not to house differen't species together is like saying i like dogs and cats but can only get a dog because i can't have a cat in the house too. Now if the dog attacks cats total diff story. My boyfriend has two dogs and a cat that live in the same house and sleep together at times.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Dogs and cats are different. They have a a huge area to roam in, and they're pretty much equal as far as predators go. Mice are MUCH smaller than rats and have no defense if a rat decided to attack it. I would never, EVER stick a dog and cat in a small, confined space. 

Mice live with mice.
Rats live with rats.

From The American Fancy Rat and Mouse Association (AFRMA):

"Rats and mice, although looking very similar except for size, cannot be housed with each other or other species of rodents. Rats can learn to get along with other family pets such as dogs and cats, but care should be given when introducing them."


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## WiccanWolf (Apr 4, 2007)

As I said, I really didn't have a choice. At the time *and this was years ago* I didn't have money to go out and buy it a different cage. It was, quite literally, dumped on me. It had been originally intended to be snake food and the snake didn't want it. What else was I supposed to do let it go for my indoor/outdoor cats to get it or have it become a pest? I took my chances and I did watch the cage very carefully for any reactions. I don't know if it was because my rats were girls and had both been living with each other since they were small or what but they didn't take any heed of the mouse. They even let it sleep with them. I did what I could with what I had. The snake ate it a few days later.

Anyway, thanks for the answers on the worms. I only feed them as treats anyway but as I said, I hadn't thought about it before and wanted to see if anyone else did it or if most were like me and didn't really think about it.

Not exactly sure why it would turn into a moral issue. People need to get over it. Rats in the wild would eat the crickets and people would cheer because crickets are pests that eat plants people would rather have them not eat but a pet rat can't have a cricket because it's alive. I guess it's a good thing I don't feel that way or my poor gecko would starve to death because she won't eat stuff that's already dead unless I trick her and that lasts for a day or two before she won't even do that.

^.".^


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

Of course you wouldn't put a dog and cat in a small area. Rats and Mice are also both Prey animals like dogs & cats are both pred. She could put some little hiding places in there for the mouse. If she doesn't already have them. I think there are exceptions, i agree i don't put my mice and rats together because my naz killed a wild mouse once. So i don't risk it and i've never thought of it. However if they are getting along fine i don't see the HUGE problem. Also i know about AFRMA, and i'm not saying they are wrong, there can be exceptions. Yes they shouldn't be kept in tight spaces together. IF you have a big cage and hide places for the mouse and you have no other choice it's more or so ok. She said this was over a year ago anyways so why worry about it? You should have seperate cages but still, I believe i have made my point. I just wish we would stop attacking other members and start talking things out a lot better than we currently are.


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## Sara_C (Mar 10, 2007)

She said the mouse got fed to the snake...so i guess there's no problem of it living with the rats any more.


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

Nazarath said:


> I just wish we would stop attacking other members and start talking things out a lot better than we currently are.


I'm starting to think it's just the way people are reading what Night says. I haven't ever read it in a negative way, she's just concerned is all.

I certainly would jump up and give funny looks if I heard someone housing TWO rats and ONE mouse together. But that's me. ^_^


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## JennieLove (Jan 2, 2007)

Night said:


> Mealworms and such are great to feed. Just don't feed too much (only a couple a week or so) since they're high in protein.


Really!? I wonder how my boys would react if I got them some, LOL. My boyfriend and I have a bearded dragon so we get her worms every once in a while. I guess I could get them some.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

I just don't want newbies to read this thread and think mice and rats can live together, because they can't. Not only are their dietary needs different, but the fact that they're different species also comes into play. 

JennieLove, I've thought about buying some crickets for my rats, but with my luck, the crickets would probably bounce out of the cage and then be lose in my room. Then I'd have that nice choir of crickets singing at night all around my room


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

i would think that the mice would be able to get out of the wires of the cage?? not only that but mice are not very social are they? i was thinking of getting some to keep on my desk to watch but not to play with and such


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## JennieLove (Jan 2, 2007)

LoL. I know what you mean! We have a tank just for the crickets. At first I couldn't stand it! But now it accually helps me fall asleep.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

The cherping sounds nice, i THINK we have them out back but it could also be our frogs. To be honest i have never thought of putting a mouse and rat together lol.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Most wire cages can be EASILY gotten out of by a determined mouse, even if the wire spacing is small. And you're right, Stephanie, mice are generally very uninterested in people and usually extremely skittish. My five mice, although I love them and enjoy watching their antics, hate being handled and touched. 

Jennie, my first boyfriend had beardies, so he had crickets also. Although I enjoyed falling asleep listening to them, it was kind of weird waking up to a couple being in the bed


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

Night said:


> it was kind of weird waking up to a couple being in the bed


Weird? That's not the word I'd use... I would've screamed the house down! :lol: *shudders*


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Crickets I don't mind, it's spiders I dislike. Spiders, bees, and wasps scare the crap out of me. If a spider's in full view, I don't mind it and I either shoo it away or kill it. But bees and wasps? God, if they start hovering around me I get immensely paranoid. I never know whether to just sit there or bolt. Plus, here in Michigan we have black wasps that are HUGE (seriously about the size of my hand) that burrow in the ground. They have a nasty temperament and are extremely loud.


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

OK, that's me never going to Michigan :lol: At least they are noisy, though, so you get some warning that they are around.

My biggest fear with creepy crawlies is having them squashed against my bare skin - so anything in the bed would freak me out to no end. Otherwise, I'm not scared of anything that has 4 legs or less, generally.


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## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

Omg Night, I'm afraid of stinging insects too. I HATE summer because of that.


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## Wench (Apr 5, 2007)

Night said:


> Most wire cages can be EASILY gotten out of by a determined mouse, even if the wire spacing is small.


This is the truth.

My house was completely infested with mice over the winter, and there was nothing we could really do but set traps (which broke my heart, there's a long story about me getting kicked out of one of my foster homes for arguing about mouse traps and inhumanity to mice). There were tons. It got to the point where they would wander into the room and simply sit down and scratch or groom right in front of me. Sure it's cute, but it's not something we could put up with. We had Doris' health to consider - any fleas, disease, or mites the mice were carrying could easily be contracted by her, and they were actually crawling up the stand of my bird cage and stealing seeds from my birds.

I decided one day enough was enough when I heard one in my closet, so I took Doris out of her cage and put her into the bath tub (she can't get out), and decided I would use the top of the cage to catch the mouse. I closed the closet door against the cage so that the only way out of the closet was into the cage, and banged on the wall. Out darted Manny (so what if I named him?  ), straight into the cage. Well, it took him less than three seconds of scooting from one end to the other looking for a proper exit before he popped himself through the bars, ran over my toes, and made for the hills. 

Rats and mice are really not the same.

For those people saying rats and mice are mortal enemies, well, that's what I've always assumed, but I'll tell you from personal experience that at least with my Doris, it's not the case. She was exploring one of my old computer towers (unplugged of course, and she is not a chewer), and I lifted it up and looked inside to have a peek at her. What I saw was Doris and a mouse wandering around inside in full view of each other, and oblivious to eachother. The mouse darted over Doris and away after it saw me, but there was definitely no fight to the death.


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

Wench said:


> so I took Doris out of her cage and put her into the bath tub (she can't get out)


Both our rats jumped out of our bath several times when they were getting bored with their introduction playtimes... much to our frustration! :lol:

I was going to ask if you were sure Doris could see the mouse, but I guess she'd smell it even if she couldn't see it.

There was a post in these forums recently about someone coming home to find one of their rats chewing on what was left of a mouse that it had caught. I guess it depends on the rat - I think this was a boy rat, maybe they're more territorial or something.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

I HATE spiders and bees as well, I try not to bolt but i just do :|. I can't even handel a spider in plain view. Daddy long legs i don't mind too much. Here at the ranch we get a LOT of black widows *shakes* oo i hate them!!! then if the back of our field we get HUGE bird eating spiders. I was riding back there once and one even made my horse stop :|. Than and when i was younger i was about to have a shower and took my glasses off and saw a black thing in the shower. It was all fuzzy and i had a black poodle who i had given a bath so i thought it was furr and scoped it up. You can guess the rest i droped the spider and didn't have a shower till morning lol. I HATE HATE HATE spiders i can't even look at them in petstores... oo i'm horrible lol. Then to add with Bees mom is deadly allergic to their sting. I've never been stung so we don't know if i am and i don't want to find out.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Holy mother of god, BIRD eating spiders?! *dies*


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

tell me about it :|. I looked up bird eating spiders and it says they live in Austalia so i could be wrong but the spiders look an awful lot alike. I mean ours dig holes and hide in there all the time. Could be a close related Species.
"The average size of a Bird Eating Spider is 15 - 20 cm. 
The female bird eating spider is bigger than the male bird eating spider. 
The bird eating spider is a type of trapdoor spider"
*DEAD*


http://www.yesnet.yk.ca/schools/jac...piders/spiders/reports/loudyn/birdeating.html


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

with the mouse and rat thing. i think its much like our cats and rats. i have a cat that actually mothered baby rats and lets my older rats use him (well his tail) as a nesty bed. but my mom has a cat that broke into my hamster cage to get at my hamster (i was so NOT pleased when i got up in the morning to find what had happened). so some rats don't care and others decide its fast food. but with cats as with rats i would always be very cautious either way. even with my mothering cat, he is NEVER left alone with my rats. he protected the babies from other cats in the house and has let rats crawl all over him without more then getting up or pinning a particuarlly annoying one down with his paw but i would still never leave him alone. the fact remains that he is a cat and their nature is yo kill rodents. he seems to be rather lazy about that but its still there (well in theroy anyway). 

with the spiders thing. did you know that the "itsy bitsy spider" nursery ryhme actually has FOUR verses?
you all know the first:
"the itsy bitsy spider crawled up the water spout
down came the rain and washed the spider out
up came the sun and dried up all the rain
and the spider crawled up teh water spout again"
but what you may not know is the next few:
"the itsy bitsy spider crawled in from the sun
it crawled intot eh crib and found the baby-bun
baby kept a crying til mamma's job was done
and the itsy bitsy spider crawled back out to the sun

"the itsy bitsy spider crawled into mamma's bed
crawled upon her hubby and bit him on the head
momma lay their sleeping while hubby lay there dead
and the itsy bitsy spider crawled out of momma's bed

"the itsy bitsy spider crawled into momma's shoe
she was forlorn and didn't know what to do
she tried to go for help but her foot was turning blue
and the itsy bitsy spider crawled out of momma's shoe"

i found this in an old hand-me-down nursery rhyme book of mine. its amazing how many nasty little rhymes that were told to kids. now you can't find a verison of the old lady in the shoe where she spanks her children. 

but one final thought on the spider. that spider depicted in the rhyme actually exists. in the jungle bit of australia there is aa all black spider about the size of a nickel that if it bites you you're dead within mintues. and the males are just as toxic as the females. i saw this on a discovery channel documentry on the world's most posionous creatures. so i guess the nursery rhyme was to warn kids of this spider or spider like it but holy crud eh? nice little rhyme before bed... "don't let the bed bugs bite"


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

*gulp* I'm going spider stomping..... well... ok i'll make my boyfriend do it lol.


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