# Fear poop.



## ATez (May 5, 2009)

When does it usually stop?
I've now had my ratties for two weeks and whenever I clean their cage I get the fear poop.
Crank has pretty much stop doing it and he'll sometimes take a treat from me while waiting for his home to be cleaned.
Pickle still poops and he does it pretty much EVERY single time. But he isn't scared of me I mean he's the only one who'll come running in and out of the cage and sniff around a bit. I once got up and walked towards him when I saw him out and he came hopping in my direction for a treat! That was a surprise for me! But when comes time to picking him up he'll poop.

Today, I cleaned the cage and Pickle poop once on the couch, second time when I put him back (which turned into diareah. My poor pickle ) so it was all over my hands and then I notice he has a trace off poop on his butt and well naturally I didn't wanna let him walk around like this so I picked him up again to clean him and he pooped. Again. But he didn't try to bite me or anything and believe me he has a good chance to do it! I put him back and he STILL had a smeer of poop which after picking him up a forth time I was able to wipe off.

He seemed okay after tho. He wasn't balled up in a corner shaking or anything he was actually walking around.
I think their little trip to the couch tired them out now they're both sleeping.

While they weren't in their cage I did put their food bowls right next to them, a little shelter and a towel that came from the cage so they would still have the smell of their home around untill I put them back. I thought maybe having food and shelter wouldn't stress them out as much if I took them out. After 10 minutes or so they did start walking and sniffing around so I really think the only thing that startles and scares Pickle is being picked up.

Any tips on that one?

I don't like knowing he's so scared of that and I'm not sure if it's something that'll eventually stop.


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## ATez (May 5, 2009)

No replies... I picked him up again once today and he pooped all over!

Help I don't know how to stop it!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

He sounds like he needs more work with picking up and comforting him and telling him he's okay when you do it. Keep a towel over your lap just in case. Are the poops less soft and smelly at least or the same nasty stuff?

What are you feeding?


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## xojesse (Apr 13, 2009)

My one rat did this the first week, never soft poops but I would use a black dishtowel that I never intended to be used to anything except for rattie clean up ever again and put it on my lap. Now instinctively I place it on the couch/bed/floor.. anywhere they can't get to their cage and they will run over, poop on it and run back. 

Ben just stopped doing it after a week or so so I am of no help. Once he got used to me it stopped, I moved very slow and steady in my movements, waited for him to come to me and not grabbed him out of the cage... I hope you find a solution to your problem!!


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## homebody (Jan 26, 2009)

I think Bette still does it sometimes. I've had her for almost four months. I can count on her to go at least once when she's out on my bed (which is always covered with a black rattie sheet), and sometimes I'll find more when I've left the room. Her poops have always been soft, though, ever since I've known her (maybe from heavy doses of antibiotics for the first month - she's very delicate). Never watery... formed, but somtimes soft. So I don't know. She's very shy, always attached to the back of my neck. Still kind of adverse to being plucked from her cage (again probably since her earliest memories are of me sticking a syringe in her mouth), but now comes out willingly to my shoulder. Keep working with the sweetheart.


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## ATez (May 5, 2009)

I feed them vegetables and fruits, nut mix and the Oxbow Rat regal!
I went to the vet to get Crank checked because he's so quiet and it turns out he's fine, so is pickle. (ouch! 100$ for the vet)
But yeah his poop was green from eating too much veggies and he got stinky diereah.
The vet told me not to worry tho and to pick him up for 5 seconds and then give him a treat while gradually holding him longer.

I tried that and then pickle stoped his instant poopin! 
Sorry you guys for the really really long post put I was a bit worried about him.
I read somewhere a rat can poop himself to death because he become dehidrated.

Thanks for the replies and tricks tho!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Severe diarrhea can cause dehydration but not fear poops...

glad to hear he's doing better...I hope you cut back on the veggies


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## ATez (May 5, 2009)

Oh yes! I did!
I used to give them a bowl of veggies pretty full but now they get only half!
Now he's back to normal! 

Well the thing with the fear poop is that he did it so much in a short period of time
that it went from normal to green and squishy. And trust me it was! As soon as you
had him in your hands it was all over. With the treats tho he stopped doing it in
about two days! Yay!

Lately i've been trying to take them out twice a day for a bit to get them
used to it. I hope it works!


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## Ratnoob523 (May 8, 2009)

I started a thread to share my success with this problem, but in case you didn't see it..

I have two new girls (they are my first rats ever) and one of them never has accidents but is an escape artist while the other is completely trustworthy but has accidents everytime she's taken out. What I've started doing is taking her out and immediately putting her in a lunchbox my xroomate left behind and closing it for about 20 seconds. They don't like going in the lunchbox so she immediately pees and poos. I put one of my sisters puppy pee pads in there so when she goes it gets soaked up and doesn't get all over her feet. Hope it doesn't sound cruel because it really isn't, it only takes about 20 seconds and then it's play time. So far it's worked very well.

As for the other one, I try my best to ratproof but she always finds somewhere to slip through. If I lose her what I have to do is put the cage on the floor with the door open (the other girl never strays far from the cage) and tie a string to it then lightly nap or watch tv on the couch. Eventually she comes out and goes in the cage for food so I just pull the string and shut the door before she realizes what's happening.


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## Gma and Gpa P (Jan 17, 2009)

Ratnoob523 said:


> I started a thread to share my success with this problem, but in case you didn't see it..
> 
> I have two new girls (they are my first rats ever) and one of them never has accidents but is an escape artist while the other is completely trustworthy but has accidents everytime she's taken out. What I've started doing is taking her out and immediately putting her in a lunchbox my xroomate left behind and closing it for about 20 seconds. They don't like going in the lunchbox so she immediately pees and poos. I put one of my sisters puppy pee pads in there so when she goes it gets soaked up and doesn't get all over her feet. Hope it doesn't sound cruel because it really isn't, it only takes about 20 seconds and then it's play time. So far it's worked very well.


Hmmm, well I can't speak for anyone else here, but to ME that sounds cruel. Yes, it does make her go pee and poop, but so would you if YOU were scared!


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## Ratnoob523 (May 8, 2009)

Anything and everything scares her though even when nothing is happening. She pees and poops every single time she's let out, even if she's just sitting on my lap or shoulder. She's just sitting in a padded box she does it all day long in her cage so I don't think it's going to hurt her to be in one for 20 seconds. It's worth it for both of us to be able to put her on the couch and let her roam play and cuddle for the next couple hours without anything getting urine on it, including me, my clothes, and my couch.

By the way, I occasionally used the lunch box to put them in when I'm cleaning their cage or just needed to make sure they weren't going anywhere for a moment.. so it's not like I was just testing out things that scare the crap out of them. I would put them in for other reasons and noticed that there was poop and a single puddle of pee every time.

Lastly, most rats hate baths but people still give them baths even if it scares them so that they will be clean. That doesn't make them bad pet owners. I see little difference here.


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## Gma and Gpa P (Jan 17, 2009)

Gma and Gpa P said:


> Ratnoob523 said:
> 
> 
> > I started a thread to share my success with this problem, but in case you didn't see it..
> ...


I was just giving my two cents. I would not want to be one of your rats, so I hope when I die I don't get reincarnated and come to you.


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## Ratnoob523 (May 8, 2009)

Jesus I'm so sorry I put a rat in a padded box how cruel of me... cry me a river. I guess you'd prefer to be snake food which was their most likely fate if I hadn't gotten them.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Try a nice big cardboard box, not as scary (rats hate to be entirely enclosed) but she should still poop. Btw if you cannot handle a bit of poop and pee, you are not going to be a rat owner for long. She's nervous but the constant pooping and peeing from fear should pass. YOU are actually prolonging gaining her trust by shoving her somewhere scary. 

And a rat that is terrified of water should NOT be bathed unless something has happened, they are old/ill, but not just to be clean. I don't consider people who habitually bathe a good owner either.

Yeah I just love that response...they were gonna be snake food anyways so I don't have to treat them with any sort of respect. You have to read your rats body language, not force them into the pigeonhole of the pet you expect. Some rats are more timid, but will become very sweet, loving rats in time, with soft words, gentle movements, and patience. And other rats may not like people much. Rats are as individual as people, and will react in different ways, because thats who they are, not who you want them to be. Work with your rat not against it.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

I completely agree with everything Lilspaz has said.



> Rats are as individual as people, and will react in different ways, because thats who they are, not who you want them to be. Work with your rat not against it.


You can't say it better than that


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## Ratnoob523 (May 8, 2009)

"they were gonna be snake food anyways so I don't have to treat them with any sort of respect"

That's not what I said at all.. strawman argument

How is putting her in a box for 20 seconds and then playing with her and providing love and fun for the next couple hours "not treating them with any sort of respect"? I highly doubt it's damaging or that I'm prolonging gaining her trust. After I take her out of the box I can put her on the floor in the middle of the room with plenty of places to escape to and all she does is make a bee line for me and grab at my leg. She is already a sweet and loving rat. She NEVER attempts to escape or hide.. I don't do any ratproofing when she's out.

I'm not "forcing them into the pigeonhole of the pet I expect", I'm preventing her from peeing all over my clothes and couch.. that is all. I chose to get rats because after tons of reading on all kinds of different animals I narrowed them down as exactly the type of animal that suites my situation and what I'm looking for in a pet so I don't need to force them to be the pet I want they already are that's why I got them in the first place. I know they are going to poop and occasionally pee outside of their cage and that's ok I pick their poo up all the time with my hands it doesn't bother me and I don't mind wiping up a little pee here and there. What bothers me is having to change shirts EVERY time I handle her or restricting her freedom because I'm afraid she'll ruin my couch. It works out better for both of us.

These are pet store rats that had very little socialization and I've worked hard every single day to tame and socialize them and have made a ton of progress so it's a little offensive to hear things like "I wouldn't want to be your rat" or "you're not treating them with any sort of respect".. that's rediculous. I'm in the process of building them an almost 4ft tall 4 level cage from scratch, I spend quality time with them every day, and I love them and take good care of them.

I think some people are just a little too soft sometimes.. life isn't always all nice and perfect for everyone and everything. Every creature on this planet has to deal with things it doesn't like at least occasionally. I know your intentions are good but you sound like the type of people that won't allow your kids to play dodgeball because you want to shelter them from the feeling of loosing a game or refuse to spank them because you don't want to hurt them, which will actually be more damaging than anything. the rat is in a loving home, it's being well taken care of, has a companion, a clean cage, plenty of food and water, tons of free range time.. I actually think they are very lucky rats.


That said I will try an open topped box with a pee pad in it, it will probably do just as well.


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## Ratnoob523 (May 8, 2009)

http://s716.photobucket.com/albums/ww162/mikemay7/?action=view&current=laprats.jpg

http://s716.photobucket.com/albums/ww162/mikemay7/?action=view&current=laprats2.jpg

http://s716.photobucket.com/albums/ww162/mikemay7/?action=view&current=roberat.jpg

http://s716.photobucket.com/albums/ww162/mikemay7/?action=view&current=bothrats.jpg

Here, do these look like terrified unhappy rats??

Notice the one where shes in the back of my robe.. that's one of many of her favorite places that would quickly become off limits if the peeing problem continues, I think if it were possible to give her the choice she would chose to be nervous for 20 seconds rather than not be aloud to be in any of her favorite places (my lap, free ranging on the sectional couch, anywhere in my clothes or robe)


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## adoraluna (May 9, 2009)

Ration1802 said:


> I completely agree with everything Lilspaz has said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I third this!


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## Ratnoob523 (May 8, 2009)

:

I guess I should let my other rat live inside of my other couch and leave food out for her to stash inside there sense that's what she always wants to do.. wouldn't want to work against her by ratproofing would I.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Your ignorance completely astounds me, Ratnoob. 

You are conditioning your rat to pee in a box .. but you are also providing NEGATIVE reinforcement every time you try. The box will be associated with pee (litter training will also do that by the way, and can help with them going out of the cage. More importantly it doesn't involve shoving your rat in a box  ) but YOU will be associated with the box that causes her fear. Hence prolonging the time it will take her to trust you.

As for your comments about being soft .. these are PETS. They don't have a choice about being subjected to your care. YOU have the responsibility of being the CARER for them - that is giving them the love and tenderness that these sweet creatures deserve - not a whip-cracker.

Wear old clothes, put a blanket on your couch .. if you can't handle a bit of pee and poop (especially from small rodents) you should rethink pets, fullstop. They are not people, nor do they have the same social values in the toilet department. Quite frankly - get over it. A little pee won't kill you.

Working WITH your pet is encouraging desired behaviours that they naturally exhibit and taking the time and patience to earn their trust. Bad behaviours should be taken with a pinch of salt and good behaviours should be rewarded ten-fold.


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## Ratnoob523 (May 8, 2009)

"Hence prolonging the time it will take her to trust you."

Comments like these make me think my rat has better reading comprehension than you do. Have you not listened to anything I've said? She ALREADY fully and completely trusts me just like I do her. If I was doing anything harmful or damaging and she didn't trust me I doubt she would have annoyed me the entire night by constantly coming up to me and literally prying my mouth open with her hands so that she could shover her little head in there. She seems to think she's a little dentist, I doubt if she had trust issues with me she would come to me of her own free will and shover her entire head in my mouth.. against my will. I allow it because it's kind of cute and seems to make her happy but it sure makes it hard to nap. 

"get over it a little pee won't kill you"

I have a better idea.. the rat can get over it.. being in a padded box for 20 seconds won't kill her.. she spends the majority of the day in one in her cage anyways. To be honest I don't think there is anything for her to get over in the first place because she doesn't really seem to mind. I know your next reply will be "if she didn't mind she wouldn't be peeing in it now would she?" By that logic I would have to assume she doesn't like being on me, being on the couch, being on the floor, or coming out of her cage at all because she pees and poops in all those situations as well.

Honestly you guys are the ones that astound ME. I talked about this issue with coworkers and friends all day yesterday and every single one of them were pretty amazed that you people are freaking out this much over something so insignificant. Every person, whether it was a 40 year old pet owning coworker or a 25 year old friend, everyone had the same reaction.. a suprised look followed by a laugh followed by head shaking and "some people..."

All I can figure is that maybe you have the wrong idea of what's going on. Putting her in the box does not terrify her, it does not hurt her, it doesn't do anything other than change her surroundings and cause her to become slightly excited. If it were that bad of an experience she would make some kind of squeaks of protest, or try and claw her way back up my arm. It's not like that at all. She's not going in kicking and screaming she's being gently put it in it and then taken out right after her. It really doesn't seem to bother her much, but it's just enough to get that initial excitement out of the way. Trust me when I tell you that this bothers you a LOT more than it bothers her. You tell me to read her body language and stuff.. I do.. and I can tell by how she acts that it's not a big deal.

Bottom line.. we have a wonderful and trusting relationship after just a few weeks, and doing this has done nothing but improve that relationship. Keep in mind this is a pet store rat that would scream bloody murder if I so much as put my hand near her when I first got her. After a few weeks she is completely socialized and already attached to me. Like I already said, I can never have to worry about rat proofing when she's out she always stays within eyesight and always comes to me on her own, even forcing my mouth open and shoving herself inside. Does that sound like a rat that's being damaged by abuse and has trust issues? She is happy as can be believe me. 

If you guys really think it's that big of a deal I'd be happy to take some video and pictures of how she reacts to the box and of play time afterwards so that you can judge for yourself if it's really doing her any harm.


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## zookeeperchase (Apr 29, 2009)

Maybe you are not aware that there are reasons for your rat to pee on you. My husband sounded much like you and thought I was crazy for my only reaction to Pademae leaking was, "where's that roll of TP I brought in here?" Then I explained that when she does that it means, "You are part of MY FAMILY, I love you and want to be able to find my way back to you should you or I wander off." In my short time reading this forum and being owned by a rat, you are ''to good" for what most of us consider the BIGGEST COMPLEMENT YOUR RAT CAN GIVE, and you won't allow it!? My guess is you don't have kids yet cause rat pee is nothing compared to Kool-Aid vomit, or neon green snot. The fact that you would stop you rat from snuggle time in your neck if it continued to pee there leads me to think the pet research you did could not have been for a rat because that was one of the things I found to reoccur in my research, rats mark EVERYTHING w/pee or teethmarks. I do hope you become less Marine Corps DI with yor new friends soon and be amazed at how much MORE love they will give


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## Ratnoob523 (May 8, 2009)

I'm not talking about the little sprinkles they leave on your arm to mark you as they pass by.. I'm talking about leaving puddles on my clothes. Actually peeing on things... a substantial amount.. not just marking. The little droplets she leaves to mark things aren't a big deal it's when she emptys out on my shirt that bothers me. She has gotten much better it's not really an issue anymore. I think she's moving away from her nervousness and is becoming more comfortable, I think the nervousness was the cause of the problem. I haven't been doing the box thing for a few days now.. she was getting use to the box so I don't think it would have worked for much longer anyway.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

> I haven't been doing the box thing for a few days now.. she was getting use to the box so I don't think it would have worked for much longer anyway.


You mean it would stop scaring her into going to the toilet? Nice.

Glad you're not using it any more


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