# Second Opinion on Bleeding from Ear



## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

When I went to check on the rats this morning I noticed Beauford had blood coming from his ear and a lot of it. When I gave them some oats for breakfast it was bleeding enough that it was dripping onto the Fleece while he sat still. I cleaned it up the best I could and within minutes all the blood was back. He's acting normal and eating normal. He's scratching at that ear a lot, which I'm sure isn't helping. 

I got him into the vet first thing this morning and she didn't feel any swelling or lumps and she agreed it was coming from his inner ear. She would do x-rays if I asked but recommended against it because she doesn't think anything will show up. She said he doesn't seem to be in any pain, he's not anemic (for now), and he's well hydrated. The vet diagnosed it as an inner ear infection and sent us on our way with a painkiller/anti-inflammatory, oral Baytril, and Baytril ear drops. She also cautioned that it could go bad very quick. 

Has anyone else experienced this before? I'm treating my mischief for mites currently, but he hasn't been itching that much. I'll post what pictures I have on request because they're pretty gross. 

Thank you.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Csszal said:


> When I went to check on the rats this morning I noticed Beauford had blood coming from his ear and a lot of it. When I gave them some oats for breakfast it was bleeding enough that it was dripping onto the Fleece while he sat still. I cleaned it up the best I could and within minutes all the blood was back. He's acting normal and eating normal. He's scratching at that ear a lot, which I'm sure isn't helping.
> 
> I got him into the vet first thing this morning and she didn't feel any swelling or lumps and she agreed it was coming from his inner ear. She would do x-rays if I asked but recommended against it because she doesn't think anything will show up. She said he doesn't seem to be in any pain, he's not anemic (for now), and he's well hydrated. The vet diagnosed it as an inner ear infection and sent us on our way with a painkiller/anti-inflammatory, oral Baytril, and Baytril ear drops. She also cautioned that it could go bad very quick.
> 
> ...


How old is Beauford? Bleeding from ears is definitely one of the symptoms of inner ear infection but there are other causes as well. Can you post the pics?


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

From what I was told, beauford is about 8 months old (I've only had him for 2 months) and he weighed in at 722g today at the vet.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

How quickly did his ear stop bleeding? Is there any smell either than blood?
Sometimes they can nick inside the capillary-rich ear with a claw or someone's teeth and it will bleed like crazy. 
Bleeding from inner ear infection often means its pretty serious, so keep an eye on him for any further signs, like head tilt, swelling, more bleeding or smell.

It can also be ear polyps or masses deep in the ear, but we shall hope its more of a bacterial infection.


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

His ear hadn't stopped bleeding when I left for work. He keeps scratching the blood clot out and causing it to start up again. I'm thinking that it started a little before I went to check on them at 6:30 this morning because there wasn't nearly as much blood as when I took him to the vet and I had already cleaned it once, thinking he got bit or scratched. I don't smell anything besides blood. The vet tried to get a swab way in his ear for the microscope but there was too much blood. 

If it is polyps, would they show on an xray and is there treatment? 

I think I'll set up a dog monitor app to monitor him while I'm away from now on. 

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to keep him from scratching it? I'm afraid I'm going to go home to a blood soaked cage. 

Also, when I get home, could anyone tell me if the antibiotics are aggressive enough if it is an inner ear infection?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

The blood in the ear canal is very irritating and a rat's instinct is to scratch at it. Hopefully he sleeps and it clots properly. If you think he's lost a LOT of blood you can try to give him foods high in iron (prevents anemia) and vitamin K (good for blood clotting) and luckily these are found in dark leafy greens like spinach, kale, broccoli and even romaine lettuce.

Baytril is a good broad-spectrum antibiotic for inner ear infection (I have had a few culture and sensitivity tests done on the exudate from the ear infection and baytril has always been one that would help). 

You might not want to start the baytril Otic just yet though, as it might make him scratch his ear and restart the bleeding. Give it a day or so and use the oral baytril for now to start.

Polyps can often be seen at the base of the ear canal if you use one of those lovely little LED flashlights...great tools for mouths and ears  An ear polyp is kind of built like a long stemmed mushroom with the cap at the top and attached deep in the base of the ear canal. I have pics but am at work, and I cannot open Photobucket right now.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

The amount of blood is likely to be from the fact he's a topaz (fawn) hooded. Unfortunately the red eyes dilute gene comes with blood platelet pool deficiency which can cause poor clotting. This means a minor scratch can bleed heavily. 

Probably the best way to stop him scratching it short term is a body wrap around his middle to stop him bending but they hate it and it isn't a long term issue. I use cohesive bandage wrapped firmly round the chest and middle then put a thin tubagrip on top to secure. You need to be sure you have enough give in it to fit a couple of fingers down it and give him a break when you can watch him.

The vet could sedate him to get a good look in his ear under aneasthetic though there are risks. It may be worth putting him on metacam to see if it's pain causing him to scratch it whilst your waiting to track down the cause

For reference Surgery will be high risk if he ever needs it as he's clearly towards the worse end of the blood clotting scale (it's a broad scale)


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

I just got home and he was sleeping and most if the blood is cleaned up. I don't know if by him, I suspect it is the girls in the cage as they tend to overly aggressive groom him sometimes. 

He's on meloxicam for pain and as an anti-inflammatory and he took it just fine thankfully. Now that it's not bleeding I might be able to get a better look, but he started scratching at it right away when he woke up. 

I didn't know what color he even was, let alone the clotting factor thing, and was just referring to him as a tan Hooded, but topaz and fawn sounds so much better. I feel so much better that he was able to sleep and let it clot at least. I'll pick up some fresh spinach while I'm at the store today. 

Thank you everyone. I will continue to keep this updated. 

You wouldn't even know there was anything wrong with him.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

He would probably be called a fawn in the US and I don't believe there's clotting issues related to that color in the US.
Isamurat, you are in the UK?


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

He was doing great this morning. Almost all the blood is cleaned up and he's still as perky and active as ever. I didn't even notice him scratch at it. 

I forgot to post his meds, He's 722g
Oral Baytril is .32mL twice daily at 22.7mg/mL
Meloxicam is .1mL twice daily at 1.5mg/mL

He napped a little more during free roam than normal, but he had a long day. Ate the spinach like a champ and came after my cookie with everyone else. I didn't notice him scratch at his ear once this morning, but last night he kept going at it. Thankful there wasn't anymore blood today!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

The dosage for the baytril is the standard 10 mg/kg but lately it seems that using 15 mg/kg is a more effective dosing, if you have enough baytril up his dose to 0.48 ml twice a day

The metacam dosage they are using is the old standard of 0.2 mg/kg. In the last few years this has been changed to a standard range of 0.5 to 2 mg/kg.

For him I would use 0.5 mg/kg and his dose would be 0.24 ml once a day.

I use 1 mg/kg for post-op pain and inflammation relief for a couple of days then bring it down to 0.5 mg/kg if needed.

For sprains I use 1 mg/kg initially, and for minor issues I would use 0.5 mg/kg.


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

I will check if I have enough Baytril. I know I have some older Baytril that I could switch to but I'm sure the strength is different. I should have more than enough meloxicam though to up it if I think he needs it. He's at the point where it doesn't even look like anything happened. Hopefully he just scratched it or one of the girls did where we can't see and it's nothing.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Fantastic news!!!!


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

Beauford's ear started bleeding again last night. It doesn't seem as bad as before. He was wrestling with one of his cage mates before we noticed it. I don't know if I'm getting the ear drops in his ear properly or what's wrong still. I might take him back to the vet. He's still acting completely normal though.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Check for nicks in his ear this time, he might be getting scratched during the rough play and have thinner skin on his ears than most.


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

I wanted to keep this topic updated because everyone was kind enough to read and respond. 

Beauford's ear bled again last week but only enough that it created a large blood clot in his ear. He scratched it out but was shaking his head a lot. I took him back to the vet and the vet managed to hold him still long enough to try scraping out some debris that was in his ear. The vet wasn't sure if he saw a growth in his ear or if it was more debris. There's definitely an infection, so he's being treated for that on a 6 weeks course of oral baytril, Baytril ear drops, meloxicam, and amoxi. The vet believes he may be scratching it because it's irritating him and that's why it bleeds. I opted to wait on having him sedated to have the maybe growth looked at until a few weeks of antibiotics have had a chance to work to see if it clears. If the growth remains and continues causing problems in the ear, I may go ahead with the sedation/surgery. He seems much happier with just a few days of being back on antibiotics. I think mostly because she gunk was clear out at the vet. 

He was so exhausted after the vet though, I felt so bad. But he gets yummy baby food twice a day and some yogurt I'm between so I think he's forgiven me. He weighed in at 770g!!!


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## jlhummel (Oct 23, 2014)

Awww. Feel better soon Beauford.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

lilspaz68 said:


> He would probably be called a fawn in the US and I don't believe there's clotting issues related to that color in the US.
> Isamurat, you are in the UK?


I realised I missed this. I am in the uk but it's not uk specific, it's the red eyed dilute gene and its associated with blood platelet pool deficiency regardless of where it is ( which in turn can cause clotting issues which are different to those associated with American blue). Fawn hoodeds (or beige as it's the same gene) are often used as experimental subjects for this reason. In reality most RED rats have minor to virtually no issues from it but some are badly effected. There are genetic factors involved but it's possible to own a number of these rats with no issues, especially if they are from a strong family line.


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

Isamurat said:


> I realised I missed this. I am in the uk but it's not uk specific, it's the red eyed dilute gene and its associated with blood platelet pool deficiency regardless of where it is ( which in turn can cause clotting issues which are different to those associated with American blue). Fawn hoodeds (or beige as it's the same gene) are often used as experimental subjects for this reason. In reality most RED rats have minor to virtually no issues from it but some are badly effected. There are genetic factors involved but it's possible to own a number of these rats with no issues, especially if they are from a strong family line.


I got him from some guy on Craigslist who didn't even know he was a hooded rat and had him in a rat Manor with just a food dish and water bottle so I have no clue where he came from, but I doubt a breeder. The guy thought he was all white though I could tell from the pictures he wasn't. I thought fawn was more reddish. I've been calling my girl Emily fawn and they are very different colors. 

Emily









Beauford









Next to each other


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Ahh in that pic the hoodie is beige, the fawn is in the background and you have a cutie agouti peeking from the back left


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

lilspaz68 said:


> Ahh in that pic the hoodie is beige, the fawn is in the background and you have a cutie agouti peeking from the back left


The Agouti is Selina. I think having beauford, the hooded, next to my girl Emily helps distinguish their colors better. I don't know if he would still have clotting problems or not based on his color, thought I wouldn't want to have any surgery done on him if he did. The vet would trim his nails during the sedation, but while he's awake, you're more likely to cut toes off even with multiple people. They have a brick in their cage to help with their nails and the girl's nails aren't nearly as sharp as his. The vet had no trouble spaying Emily, so I don't think she has any clotting problems.


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm not sure if I should start a new topic or not. 

Beauford now has a lump on his face under the bad ear and has a hard blockage in that ear. I don't know if I should try to dislodge the blockage myself or take him to the vet. The lump on his face wasn't there yesterday but he actually seems like he's doing better. He's currently out running around and climbing on everything with the girls while I clean their cage.


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## RattieFosters (Aug 8, 2015)

With any kind of lump or wound on the face or neck, I would take them to the vet sooner rather than later. That can go bad very quickly. :/


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

What kind of hard blockage does he have in his ear? Can you see it? Is it dried blood?


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

Gribouilli said:


> What kind of hard blockage does he have in his ear? Can you see it? Is it dried blood?


I'm not sure if that's all it is or not. The cage is currently disassembled because I was cleaning it when I noticed the blockage in his ear so I can't take him to the vet for another hour or so at the least. I can try to get a picture of the blockage, but he hates when you mess around that ear.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

The worry there is a zymbals gland abscess or tumour. I would get him on amox and metronidazole asap and hope it goes down. If not then go for a fine needle aspiration/biopsy. If nothing comes out its likley ZGT and bad. You then just manage them until it's time. If it's an abscess the meds above are powerful stuff as you don't want to mess around with baytril on a facial abscess (it's next to useless in this case).


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

What is ZGT?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Zymbal's gland tumor. Its a very specific tumor of the Zymbal gland directly under the ear. These sometimes have an abscess form on top but once its drained the lump/tumor continues to grow. Eventually the lump opens up. These are inoperable tumors and as Isamurat said, you just manage the situation. Pain meds when it becomes painful, trim teeth if the jaw becomes misaligned, and humane euthanasia when it is time. 


Its best to NOT have a vet try to cut into it or remove it, as this cancerous tissue doesn't heal and it actually makes the tumor progress faster and as it can be very very fast already you don't want to speed that up.

Sometimes you will see discharge in the ear or blood for ZGT.

If you see a small mass there's a possibility of a ear polyp. These are small masses built like a small mushroom, with the stem deep down the ear canal and the tiny cap on the top.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

Thanks lilspaz I didn't know about those tumors. I hope it isn't that. Would a vet know what it is by looking at it through?


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

He's got an appointment tonight at 9pm to have a different vet at the same hospital look at it, just because the normal one isn't in. I was really afraid that it might be a ZGT. He's on Baytril, amoxi, and meloxicam right now. I'm hoping that it's a blood clot in his ear canal and it's all backed up... But I think that would be painful and he's acting completely normal.


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

Whatever was in his ear ruptured and the vet was able to clean some out while he was sedated but she says it very deep. She recommended surgery to slice open his ear canal to clean the rest out so it hopefully stops rupturing and can get him in as soon as tomorrow. She says there is a possibility that it's a ZGT and still wants to try to remove it and send it out for testing. With today I've already spent $318 on him in the last 2 months and they're getting a quote for the surgery now.


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

Is it normal for a rat who was under sedation to be out of it? Hr woke up quickly from the sedation, but he's really out of it.


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