# Pneumonia and vet says there's no cure



## Chevynat (Oct 9, 2012)

I brought my rat to the vet today, he has pneumonia and she says that there's nothing to do. He is still eating (although not as much) and runs and snuggles with my daughter. She suggests to put him to sleep or enjoy him while we still can. He seems his old self, just the breathing is heavy. I am beside myself and don't know what to do. Anyone knows how long he could have or am I selfish by keeping him longer.


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## AK26 (Oct 9, 2012)

First thing to do is pick a vet that knows what she is doing when it comes to rats. If you think about it a vet has to know anatomy/physiology of many different species, not just one like a human doctor, and it's not really possible for a single vet to be able to treat all animals. Just because a vet agrees to see a pet rat, doesn't mean she know what she's doing. I suggest you read this: http://ratfanclub.org/vetgood.html

Look online for referrals on vets who work with rats.
Two good resources for vets: 
http://www.ratfanclub.org/vetrefw.html (Western US)
http://www.rmca.org/Vets/
(I'm lucky to be in an area where i have a few options, so I further researched those vets on yelp).

Pneumonia and respiratory infection can be treated in rats. I know from lots of online research and personal experience, my rat was diagnosed with pneumonia last week. He is taking baytril, the most commonly prescribed antibiotic for RI in rats. He has made a lot of progress with his antibiotic. His breathing is no longer noisy, energy higher, and starting to gain some weight (he had become very underweight). I don't know if your rat is more severe than mine, but I feel your vet should give treatment a try, especially is he is still able to run to your daughter. I wouldn't be surprised if your vet's negative prognosis was due to lack of knowledge. 

I also suggest doing as much research as you can on RI in rats, just so you can be assured your (possibly new) vet is selecting the right treatment, because as I said, not all vets are knowledgable on rats or up to current literature. If you don't have the fortune of having a good rat vet in your area, at least try to find a good caring vet who would be willing to read up on some of that info you find.

good luck!


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## gal5150 (Aug 14, 2012)

Yes, agree with AK26. There are cases of pnemonia that are too far gone to be treated but you dont know if thats the case unless you try treatment and it fails. Was an xray taken? How did your vet come to this conclusion?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

It sounds like a standard respiratory infection, not pneumonia...there's no way baytril is ever enough for pneumonia and most times you will lose those poor rast. Regular respiratory infectinm is very treatable, with a GOOD vet. I think we need to find you a new one who actually knows what they are talking about and/or care enough to try


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Chevynat,

Great advise so far... And some vets actually put a pricepoint on your animal's recovery to boot. After charging their full fee for a visit, I've had a vet tell me it wasn't financially worth treating my animal after it died. Nice to know there was a treatment he didn't recommend when it was too late.

Also, you didn't post your rat's age or general health. Pneumonia (fluid in the lungs) has multiple causes including heart failure in old animals. This too can be treated at a big cost for a limited time. I've seen humans kept alive for quite some time with varying degrees of heart problems time using some pretty nifty meds that are commonly available, but not cheap. For the most part, vets don't recommend this kind of advanced treatment for small animals or even dogs. 

My friend has a vet that will recommend the latest and most expensive treatments for his clients that want to try them. She spent over $900.00 keeping a 12 year old bunny alive for 4 extra days... Both her and her hubby were out of work at the time. I'm not sure her vet did her any favors.


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## Chevynat (Oct 9, 2012)

Thanks guys for all the advice, this vet is suppose to be an exotic pet vet. I brought in my guinneys (because I also had 2 guinneas) one with Urinary Tract infection (in all it cost me over 400.00, with xrays and 2 rounds of antibiotic and 2 exams) and my Snow survived and is still in good health and the other one, some time after, had cancer and she was underweight and she told me it was better to put her down. Which I did. My rats are young, 10 month old (3 boys) Aragon is the one that is sick, I took him away from the other ones and put him in another cage and I am happy to inform that he is eating better and drinking alot more, he seems to have alot more energy. Should I demand antibiotics from the vet just the same... I have read that Baytril is not strong enough...
My other rats are in good health, a few months ago I brought another rat to her because he was making some weird noises. She told me it was in it's nose, upper infection and now he is fine, bacause those are more treatable...That was Merlin and I also have King, they are in the same cage.
Could Aragon still play with them or is he to contageousÉ=?
I love my babies to death and would do anything to give them a good life. Maybe it does not help that I got them from a woman that had some rats and they had babies and more babies and more babies and then she just wanted to bring them to the pet store (which they agreed to take them for snake food). She had brought them to my daughter's class to try to give some away and then bring the rest to the store. My daughter brought home 3 beautiful baby rats (7 to 8 weeks old) and I just fell in love with them.


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## Chevynat (Oct 9, 2012)

Should I keep him away from my other rats?


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## gal5150 (Aug 14, 2012)

If he's already been around them there's no point in separating them.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

10 Month's old isn't old enough for most uncurable "pneumonia" type symptoms. Like I said, some vets don't recommend expensive diagnostics and treatments for rats. 

I'm not entirely on board with your sick rat playing with your healthy ones until he's better. But that can be argued both ways.

As to getting antibiotics from your vet, now that your rat is doing better again that's an arguable point, but doesn't strike me as a bad idea, cost factor aside... It's not likely to do any harm.

I also suppose you should discuss your vet's philosophy and express yours and try to work with someone who is on the same page as you are, aside from being a good exotic vet.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

if it's pneuomia it should be curable.

There are many things on the internet that increasing Vitamin E and A can help with the symptoms and about 50% of the time cure it along with nebulizers (steaming) and making sure they are eating and drinking.

I would say it's ok for him to be with them.

next question, are you sure it is Pneumonia? When my rat Charles got "sick" he had what I thought was a Pneumonia but no rattling in his chest, and he was eating, drinking, just weak and sometimes being limp. Found out it was a Pituatory tumor and he died 4 days later (RIP). PTs are incurable as it in the brain, are you sure your vet is not trying to tell you something? PT can happen in rats of all ages. Just a thought, not to alarm you.


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## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

Look around in your area for good exotics vets... Yours may be a bit more knowledgeable about guinea pigs, but perhaps not too up on rat issues. Your best bet is to consider treating the other rat with antibiotics as well. Normally I wouldn't recommend it if they're not showing symptoms but I don't think you should count on your vet really knowing what he/she is talking about.

As for it being pneumonia... I very much doubt that he's too far gone, if he's running and playing with your daughter. I agree with lilspaz. This sounds medium-to-severe, if he's not eating so much, yet probably treatable with the right course of antibiotics. 

Time to go vet shopping.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

PT is rare in rats this young though, like extremely insanely rare. They might have a PT growing but not show symptoms til at least 15 months old. There are different brain tumours, inner infections that spread to the brain but these have more definitive symptoms than a URI.

Your other rats have already been expoosed to him so if they are cagemates I would leave them together. A rat can become quite depressed when taken away from his friends while sick.

I would demand the baytril anyways as he may respond to it since he's still active and eating. I cannot believe a vet refused to treat a rat and basically sent him home to die


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## AK26 (Oct 9, 2012)

The vet may be an exotic pet vet, and you may have had good experience with your guinneys, but that doesn't guarantee she is good with ALL exotic pets. The fact that she didn't even try makes me skeptical. 

About separation, I agree with gal5150. I'm no expert, but I was doing some reading from a person who seems to me very reputable, and she said that other ratties in the cage would be infected by this point (if it's myco, which is very likely, they probably have had it their whole lives and it's only come up now that his immune system is stressed). Separation may stress out your already sick rat.

Not sure how "strong" Baytril is compared to others, but it is the most commonly prescribed in adult rats and considered very effective. If your rat is very severe vet can prescribe an antibiotic combo.


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