# Alice and Jenny - The beautiful berks



## Ratilove2

Edit:their here and they are adorable X3 new pics will be posted very soon
So Im getting two female ratties on the *30th* and I'm *SO* excited!!! 
Ones a buff variegated berkshire and the other is a mink berkshire
I'm going to be calling the *Alice* (buff) and *Jenny* (mink)



















-I'm getting them from South City Rattery, a very good rattery in Peterborough, I'm in Toronto so finding a good rat breeder was near impossible (anyone in Toronto looking for a good rat breeder check out -removed- She goes to Oshawa and Pickering once her rats are weaned)

*warning: please do not advertise ratteries in post. - jaguar*


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## Jaguar

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

interested in what shelagh has to say about this "rattery"


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



Jaguar said:


> interested in what shelagh has to say about this "rattery"


what?


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



x-Vintage-Dreams-x said:


> Jaguar said:
> 
> 
> 
> interested in what shelagh has to say about this "rattery"
> 
> 
> 
> what?
Click to expand...

oh, see I'm new to this forum  is shelagh the moderator or something?? she posts alot


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## smesyna

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Not on this forum, no. Above peoples names on their posts it will say moderator or administrator. She said what she did because lilspaz keeps up with who are the sadly few ratteries in Canada and also has access to NARR to view pedigrees.

ETA: I looked over the site and if you are interested in my concerns I will gladly share.


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



smesyna said:


> Not on this forum, no. Above peoples names on their posts it will say moderator or administrator. She said what she did because lilspaz keeps up with who are the sadly few ratteries in Canada and also has access to NARR to view pedigrees.
> 
> ETA: I looked over the site and if you are interested in my concerns I will gladly share.


ok i would love to know, so i can watch out and deal with them, im still gunna get them though


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## smesyna

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Ok, well so far I noticed that their rats did not come from pedigreed lines. . They cull their rats, aka kill them. Aside from morality, it raises the issue of tracking health, as now their are holes in their health records. Also, she has some lightning blazes, and especially since they are from pet store and other unknown lines, I would worry about megacolon  There's more than one blazed rat listed there too, a "dalmation" that appears to be a blazed cap. She also has four litters at a time. They are smaller litters than normal because she culls, but it is still a LOT to have at once, especially since so few are reserved  That's about the gist of what I found very concerning.


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



smesyna said:


> Ok, well so far I noticed that their rats did not come from pedigreed lines. . They cull their rats, aka kill them. Aside from morality, it raises the issue of tracking health, as now their are holes in their health records. Also, she has some lightning blazes, and especially since they are from pet store and other unknown lines, I would worry about megacolon  There's more than one blazed rat listed there too, a "dalmation" that appears to be a blazed cap. She also has four litters at a time. They are smaller litters than normal because she culls, but it is still a LOT to have at once, especially since so few are reserved  That's about the gist of what I found very concerning.


oh well i still think its better then a pet shop...
and what you mean cull?


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## smesyna

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

There's also rescues if you are interested.

Culling means they'll have a litter, and kill some of the "less desirable" babies


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



smesyna said:


> There's also rescues if you are interested.
> 
> Culling means they'll have a litter, and kill some of the "less desirable" babies


well how do you know she culls? she doesn't give feeders~


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



x-Vintage-Dreams-x said:


> smesyna said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's also rescues if you are interested.
> 
> Culling means they'll have a litter, and kill some of the "less desirable" babies
> 
> 
> 
> well how do you know she culls? she doesn't give feeders~
Click to expand...

and im not fond of recues because of behavour issues, and im already in love with the ones im getting


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## smesyna

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

She states it on her website under practices and policies. I was rather surprised, since many who do do not admit it but are found out due to too small litters, etc.

Rescues do not always (or even often) have behavior problems. Most rats are rehomed due to accidental litters, owners loosing interest, owners moving, owners losing job, allergies, etc (yes, I do know this, I work with a rat rescue). Rescues do have a negative connotation of being "problem" pets, but it is undeserved. No ethical rescue would ever lie about their temperaments.


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## Kiko

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Many many rats in rescues are fantastic pets. A lot of them are born in the rescue and hand raised by the volunteers so they are as sweet as any rat.

Rat's are not really like dogs, they are not "scarred" by a person yelling or even neglect. A rat that has been neglected are very often fully able to get back to normal with a kind hand.

How do I know this? I work with the same rescue as Smeysna, and good rescue would never adopt out a rat with behavior issues to someone who does not want a rat like that.
And I have rescued rats, all of which are extremely sweet docile rats. In fact my only aggressive rat is from a pet store. (not saying pet store rats are bad, but it goes to show it's hit or miss with unknown genetics)

Getting a hand raised baby from a rescue is the same as getting a hand raised pet store stock baby from a breeder health and temperament wise.

I am not at all telling you NOT to get these rats. If you want them, by all means get them I am sure they are fine babies.
But this is NOT what I call a reputable breeder.

All things aside, they are very cute babies, and don't feel bad about getting them, but understand that rescues are not full of damaged animals, and health wise a bad breeder is no better then a pet store.


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



Kiko said:


> Many many rats in rescues are fantastic pets. A lot of them are born in the rescue and hand raised by the volunteers so they are as sweet as any rat.
> 
> Rat's are not really like dogs, they are not "scarred" by a person yelling or even neglect. A rat that has been neglected are very often fully able to get back to normal with a kind hand.
> 
> How do I know this? I work with the same rescue as Smeysna, and good rescue would never adopt out a rat with behavior issues to someone who does not want a rat like that.
> And I have rescued rats, all of which are extremely sweet docile rats. In fact my only aggressive rat is from a pet store. (not saying pet store rats are bad, but it goes to show it's hit or miss with unknown genetics)
> 
> Getting a hand raised baby from a rescue is the same as getting a hand raised pet store stock baby from a breeder health and temperament wise.
> 
> I am not at all telling you NOT to get these rats. If you want them, by all means get them I am sure they are fine babies.
> But this is NOT what I call a reputable breeder.
> 
> All things aside, they are very cute babies, and don't feel bad about getting them, but understand that rescues are not full of damaged animals, and health wise a bad breeder is no better then a pet store.


ok yeah, you know if i did it again I might of just got rats from a rescue  but im getting these rats soon and I like them so yeah, sad to hear the breeder's not the best though 
I hate the idea of culling  why cant she just breed less? ugh shes not charging alot for them either
sorry if i sounded like all rats from rescues have behavior issues, i just meant its a bigger chance, and not all recues WONT give away rats with bad behavior issues, im sure you will agree with me on that


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## wheeljack

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



x-Vintage-Dreams-x said:


> Kiko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many many rats in rescues are fantastic pets. A lot of them are born in the rescue and hand raised by the volunteers so they are as sweet as any rat.
> 
> Rat's are not really like dogs, they are not "scarred" by a person yelling or even neglect. A rat that has been neglected are very often fully able to get back to normal with a kind hand.
> 
> How do I know this? I work with the same rescue as Smeysna, and good rescue would never adopt out a rat with behavior issues to someone who does not want a rat like that.
> And I have rescued rats, all of which are extremely sweet docile rats. In fact my only aggressive rat is from a pet store. (not saying pet store rats are bad, but it goes to show it's hit or miss with unknown genetics)
> 
> Getting a hand raised baby from a rescue is the same as getting a hand raised pet store stock baby from a breeder health and temperament wise.
> 
> I am not at all telling you NOT to get these rats. If you want them, by all means get them I am sure they are fine babies.
> But this is NOT what I call a reputable breeder.
> 
> All things aside, they are very cute babies, and don't feel bad about getting them, but understand that rescues are not full of damaged animals, and health wise a bad breeder is no better then a pet store.
> 
> 
> 
> ok yeah, you know if i did it again I might of just got rats from a rescue  but im getting these rats soon and I like them so yeah, sad to hear the breeder's not the best though
> I hate the idea of culling  why cant she just breed less? ugh shes not charging alot for them either
> sorry if i sounded like all rats from rescues have behavior issues, i just meant its a bigger chance, and not all recues WONT give away rats with bad behavior issues, im sure you will agree with me on that
Click to expand...

Rescues has be unethical the same way breeders can. An ethical rescue will know of any temperament issues in their animals and will let potential adopters know about them so they can make an informed choice.
This goes for ANY species. Saying rescues are full of mental-cases is a myth that has cost countless animals their lives. Yes there are animals in rescue of all species that have certain issues but it is by no means the majority of them. You have just a good a chance of getting a well adjusted pet with no behavior issues from most dog/cat/rat rescues as you do from a pet store, or in this case, a less than ethical breeder.

I understand you are set on getting these two rats and that is your decision, but please do a little more research into how rescues actually work and what their adoption procedures are before you spread more negative press for the very animals who need it the least.


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## wheeljack

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Meant to say ' Rescues can be unethical...' above.


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## Kiko

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Yes, just like there are bad breeders there are bad rescues.

We are actually soon going to be posting a Sticky about the red flags of bad rescues.

Breeders use culling to get rid of sick rats, It is not very ethical in rat breeding because all rats are helpful is keeping an eye on the genepool.

A rat with less desirable traits but good health and temperament should be adopted out not culled.


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## smesyna

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

When a breeder culls and breeds multiple litters at a time, its obviously not just to reduce numbers, so it is generally to get rid of any that may be sick and so would cost money to treat, and/or to get rid of the less desirable markings/colors.

Yes, charging so little is a red flag too. While breeding right you will loose money, most breeders charge more due to the exceptional amount of time and money they put into them.

There are unethical rescues, of course (sadly), but luckily they're the minority and looking into them helps, it is fairly easy if you know what you are looking for. I'm glad you're willing to consider them next time. If you look in the adoption center, I co-wrote an article describing rescue red flags so people can avoid the bad ones.


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## Kiko

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Lets make sure this does not get personal.
The OP showed she understands rescues are not bad. 

Although it is a sad truth that rescue animals are often overlooked because people have a "messed up abused animal" mentality.
It's essentially why I am choosing to adopt a 2nd dog, even though I had my heart set on a pure bred aussie.


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## Kiko

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Everyone is posting very fast It's hard to direct posts lol!

And I think as soon as it's ready that sticky is going up! It seems to be coming up a lot and seems like invaluable info.


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## halfmoon

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Those babies are adorable! Congratulations  Hopefully you post more pictures when you finally get them.

Rescues are definitely worth looking into, so keep them in mind if you ever get another rat or two. Or three... Trust me: once you have rats, you'll never want to be without them.


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## Tink_JCF

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

I love the mink one. In the one photo where she is being held in hand, she looks like a hamster. It is so cute looking! They are both cute of course!


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

ok, I'm very sorry people if I sounded like I didn't like rescues, I by all means do, even more now  but Alice and Jenny are reserved, and I'm starting to fall in love with them all ready AND I'm sure even that breeder still has healthier rats then Petsmart or PJ's pets (the only petshops I know off near me)


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## Kiko

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

That only depends on what her breeding stock is. If she is breeding pet store stock rats, they are not better health wise.

Thank you for listening to what people had to say about rescues, it can be dis heartening when people don't wanna hear new ideas and animals suffer because of it.

When do you get your babies?


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



Kiko said:


> That only depends on what her breeding stock is. If she is breeding pet store stock rats, they are not better health wise.
> 
> Thank you for listening to what people had to say about rescues, it can be dis heartening when people don't wanna hear new ideas and animals suffer because of it.
> 
> When do you get your babies?


Around the 30th, when they are 5 weeks old X3


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## Kiko

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Excited?

What kind of cage do you have ready for them?


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



Kiko said:


> Excited?
> 
> What kind of cage do you have ready for them?


http://www.petland.ca/living-world-resort-rat-starter-kit.html
I got it from Pj's pets and never used the pine bedding or any of the accessories for that matter 
The dimensions are 24"H 22"W 16"D
The ramps are flat and metal, and it has a deep tray


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



x-Vintage-Dreams-x said:


> Kiko said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excited?
> 
> What kind of cage do you have ready for them?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.petland.ca/living-world-resort-rat-starter-kit.html
> I got it from Pj's pets and never used the pine bedding or any of the accessories for that matter
> The dimensions are 24"H 22"W 16"D
> The ramps are flat and metal, and it has a deep tray
Click to expand...

I'm SO excited! I've been rat sick for months and now I'm finally getting them X3


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## Kiko

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

That cage is fine for babies, but in the long term it is actually to small for daily use with adult rats.

I used to have a starter kit like that, it was great as a beginner cage and I moved on to martins later. If you can afford it I really recommend them. If not then craiglist is a great place to find large cages dirt cheap.


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

the thing is im limited for space :\


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## smesyna

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

I understand, but a big enough cage is really a necessity :-\


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## ratchilla

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



Kiko said:


> Although it is a sad truth that rescue animals are often overlooked because people have a "messed up abused animal" mentality.
> It's essentially why I am choosing to adopt a 2nd dog, even though I had my heart set on a pure bred aussie.


Good for you! I've always wanted a great dane but opted for two Humane Society dogs (hey, put together they probably equal one). I also got them from the adult section since they are harder to adopt out. One is aussie and she's my little girl (I'm not sure what else she is mixed with).  I couldn't ask for a better dog. Good luck with whatever one you get. 



x-Vintage-Dreams-x said:


> the thing is im limited for space :\


See, I get that, but it saddens me to see people pay that much for something when there are so many better ones out there for around the same price. Can you return it by chance? You live in Canada, right? What area?


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## ratchilla

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



x-Vintage-Dreams-x said:


> The dimensions are 24"H 22"W 16"D


Okay, this one is bigger, but is a better cage if you're interested. Dimensions are:

Cage Only Dimensions: 24.5" H x 25" W x 36" D
Overall Dimensions: 38.5" H x 25" W x 36" D

It's the single level critter nation (161). I just did a search for it, found the cheapest price is still CSN (where I got my CN 162) and they SHIP TO CANADA!

http://www.csnstores.com/Midwest-Pets-161-MDW1241.html The price is $139.99. However, because I want to save you some money, I found you a coupon as well!

E6NF1, will save you 10% off your order. Saving you $14 and bringing it down to $125.99. Of course, it depends on how much they charge you for shipping. Hope it works out for you.

I just don't know how much it will cost to ship, but hey, give it a try if you feel like it.  Good luck to you.


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

the price is not the issue\ its space\ i MAY be able to have one with the same base dimensions but taller, MAYBE\ i can't return the cage, I've had it for 4 years \


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## ratchilla

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

I gotcha.  Just trying to help was all. Good luck with you're ratties, they are adorable.


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



Ratchilla said:


> I gotcha.  Just trying to help was all. Good luck with you're ratties, they are adorable.


thx, yeah i know all these people are on the forum saying rats need huge cages and stuff but really compared to what most rat owners are using, mines huge :\ and their going to be let out to play A LOT and I used to rat calculator and it said my cage is big enough ( yeah i know, that doesn't mean anything its still is to small yeah yeah yeah)


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

ok so if i get a bigger one i need it to be a certain size it needs to be 16 deep or less and 24-25 long and it can be pretty high so yeah anyone know some good cages with a slim base send me the link


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## Kiko

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Martins R-690 has a small foot print and can house 2-3 rats.

The footprint is 24x14 so it's pretty small. It's also less then 100.


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## smesyna

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

The Martins 690 is 24x14x36. I don't usually recommend it because of its narrowness, as there isn't as much floorspace for igloos, wheels, etc and it is harder to turn around in, especially since for less money you can get the 680, which IMO is the much better cage. It is much better than the cage you have though since it has more space and is fine for girls (for those reading, boys NEED a 30x18 base). If you can figure out a dresser or somewhere else to put your cage though I'd really highly recommend the 680.

If you order, powdercoating is a must.

http://www.martinscages.com/products/cages/rat/


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

well after shipping costs (im in canada) its like $190 and just for 12 inches higher!


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## smesyna

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Right, canada. I'm not sure what to recommend, your cage options are limited up there, so the only cages I know of big enough for rats sold up there are at least 30x18 for the base


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## Jaguar

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

12 inches is a LOT of difference. 

that cage is not big enough for full grown rats. i had to use it for two adult males in a cage emergency while waiting for my martins, and they chewed on the bars and pans cause it was so cramped.

not to mention it's VERY overpriced - it is a cheaply made cage. the latch snapped off mine, the bars bend very easily, and the pan has lips and corners that your rats can chew holes in. the paint peels off the shelves and ramps as well, and the way the ladders hook into the shelves is unstable and they fall out when your rat bumps them. it's a pain in the ass to clean because of the small door and no other way to access the inside.

soooo not worth the money. it is also prebuilt so it can't be packed down for storage... i got it for super cheap and it's still sitting out in the garage gathering dust.










you can see how small it really is with a full grown rat in it.


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## distancel

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

I know a lot of people create 'frankencages' where they stack two or more on top of each other (and zip tying or wiring them together), making a taller cage? You would just need an extra ladder and maybe to cut a hole in the top if there isn't already an opening there. This is what I did with my first rats as I started off with a small cage and got a second one when I realised my girls were getting far too large for it, to basically double the size without buying a whole new cage and letting the first go to waste. Anyway it might be an option as then you could end up with a tall cage rather than a wide one. 
The babies are gorgeous by the way! I love their colours <3. Not long to go now I can't wait to see pics of them when you get them.


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

yeah thx everybody, i know its small and i was thinking connecting two cages together BUT i can't have them getting out BECAUSE i have a cat in the house :\ so if they get out when i don't know...... :'( btw my old rats didn't chew the bars (because thats all they ever had i guess) and the latch on my cage is so going strong after 4 years may be ill just have to spend $200 on 12 inches more, you no what? no maybe Ill make a grotto :3 http://www.dapper.com.au/grotto.htm
http://www.dapper.com.au/cages.htm


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

so yeah i think im gonna make a homemade cage, i think that would be the best option


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

who here has made a grotto? anyone? any tips?


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

New pictures from the breeder
and I'm for sure getting them on the 30th X3


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## jooleeah

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*


im getting one from the same breeder!
so far shes been suuuuper helpful and patient with me and all my questions haha 
im getting a little blue boy :')
cant wait for monday!


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## 1a1a

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

So, so, sooooo cute!

The grotto idea is quite enticing (after which I will sell my wire cages to raise funds for vet bills ha ha sigh).


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## Terpsichore

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

I have made a grotto/cabinet style page. I used and would recommend using Google Sketch Up to plan it out first. I got my wood cut at a local (home improvement?) Home Depot type store. I ended up spending a lot more than I expected. So I would make a thorough estimate of what you plan to put in it. I failed to account for a lot of things, especially small stuff that can add up, like hooks, ladders, materials for the doors etc. I have to say I ate a little less well that month  Also, if you have other pets,i.e. dogs or cats, total FAIL on my part here, most locks that you can buy are meant for one component to be static, so they are not very effective if you have made two adjacent doors. I ended up keeping a ladder in front of the doors for several months, with a bunch of boxes on it, to prevent my cats from opening it. I managed a way to make one side static, but it's definitely not optimal. Also, litter training is a must for this kind of cage, in my opinion.


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## Kiko

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

And for a grotto to be large enough it would end up being bigger then the cages we suggested and the same is not MORE expensive.
And it will not last as long I promise.

The cage will be lighter, easier to clean, cheaper, easier to store/move around, Much easier to decorate, and no hassle of building it.


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## lilspaz68

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

I never even saw this thread until now. LOLOL

She definitely talks the talk, but I also know that the colours claimed on the front page are incorrect and that she just went to colour websites and thought that was what they looked like (we "spoke"). 
A new breeder shouldn't have 4 litters at a time, who the heck has time to socialize 29 babies??? I have enough trouble with a rescue litter of 12! A new breeder should also not be adopting out rats until she is sure her lines are established and her claims of temperament and health are actually showing promise.

The babies being adopted out at 5 weeks is terribly terribly young...it should be at least 6 weeks so the babies get over the weaning period. 

females not being bred BEFORE 4.5 months? Those are teeny baby girls!!! Males not being bred BEFORE 6 months? That's often before hormonal aggression can kick in, and really good breeders often wait a long time before breeding their males to see if this issue kicks in. The females should be a minimum of 6 months, not 4.5 months.

The whole culling thing leaves me COLD. Culling is a terrible practice (and what humane method are we talking about? Euthanasia at the vets? I doubt it ) Culling (killing pups that aren't as desirable) is an abhorrent practice and actually removes those individuals from the health records of these lines. Those pups may have had serious health issues but once you remove them that information is gone forever, and the line is not accurately tracked and actually could be a genetic timebomb and a heart break for future owners :'(

The interest in blazes but absolutely NO mention of megacolon? Worrying. I am glad your babies are selfs and berks, so we don't have to agonize with you when their belly starts to swell up and they have to be put to sleep in agony. The crazy trend (yet again!) in Ontario is blazes and dangerous high white markings, not long ago it was minks, and pearl merles (mink-based colours) from Petsmart, so you KNOW there's a lot of petstore stock in hers.

I think you are getting cute little babies, that are socialized but really just petstore stock at this time.

There are some very good rescues that take in lovely rats the next time you are looking. Lots of hand-raised happy babies. In fact I am going to be taking in a group of 5 little dumbo lads (5 weeks old) that have been hand-raised (with my advice) since they were born and I am in Toronto. They will need homes as well and they will be fine pets 

Most people who make grottos usually regret it in a few months.  You have to make them just right from the beginning. 

Use your cage for now and just start saving up for a Martin's, or keep your eyes open for one online.


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## jorats

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Very cute babies! I wonder how many the breeder will kill or have killed from this litter in order to keep a better profit margin. :-\
Hopefully not too many people will support this awful backyard breeder.


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## Terpsichore

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

I agree that building a grotto style cage is more expensive and a lot of work. I spent about a week building mine and it is extremely heavy, over 100lbs., maybe even 150. It took my boyfriend, his friend and me to lift it onto the table it now sits. While I am very satisfied with mine, I would have bought one if a good cage was available where I live. Also, if you do not have experience building or know someone who does, I would definitely buy instead of building.


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## halfmoon

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Instead of building a grotto from scratch, you could buy a big enough bookshelf and use that as the base. I've seen it done, but I don't know how much work or money has to go into it.


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

ugh were do I start> well ok I'm know the breeder has gaps in her health line BUT there are not many breeder around here, she just starting up, and every breeder has to start somewhere, please don't go around calling her an AWFUL breed because shes not the big one for the petstores are AWFUL breeders! second I'm not sure if i want to make a grotto or not but its been my dream to have one for years now.
Just please don't get hostile about anything on this forum please and thank you.


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

btw i got the yesterday and they are BEAUTIFUL! so tame and playful X3 I will post pictures as soon as i can


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## lilspaz68

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



x-Vintage-Dreams-x said:


> ugh were do I start> well ok I'm know the breeder has gaps in her health line BUT there are not many breeder around here, she just starting up, and every breeder has to start somewhere, please don't go around calling her an AWFUL breed because shes not the big one for the petstores are AWFUL breeders! second I'm not sure if i want to make a grotto or not but its been my dream to have one for years now.
> Just please don't get hostile about anything on this forum please and thank you.


if you are going to breed, you have to do it right...in Canada the breeders know very little and actually think they are doing it right. This one is trying I will give her that but do not assume that her babies will always be healthy since there's no way to know. Health issues are the hardest to breed out, temperament is another one as well...just be prepared for some cute, nice babies, but don't expect because they are "breeder" stock that they are automatically different.


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## smesyna

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



x-Vintage-Dreams-x said:


> ugh were do I start> well ok I'm know the breeder has gaps in her health line BUT there are not many breeder around here, she just starting up, and every breeder has to start somewhere, please don't go around calling her an AWFUL breed because shes not the big one for the petstores are AWFUL breeders! second I'm not sure if i want to make a grotto or not but its been my dream to have one for years now.
> Just please don't get hostile about anything on this forum please and thank you.


Actually, there are good breeders that do start out with stock from other breeders, already understanding rat genetics, having a mentor, etc. Also, aside from that, there is also no excuse for "culling" or killing babies :-\ It's not just the health records gap that is an issue, but a morality one. I know there are not a lot of breeders near you, there aren't near me either, but there are rescues and rehomes, it is not just breeder or pet store, so there are other options if you would rather avoid supporting these practices.

No one is being hostile to you, I actually expected to have to lock this a long time ago but people are being civil to you.


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

well ok not hostile but very pushy, anyway I have the ratties now and if i had to do it again I will get them from a rescue :3


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## cookikai

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



x-Vintage-Dreams-x said:


> So Im getting two female ratties on the *30th* and I'm *SO* excited!!!
> Ones a buff variegated berkshire and the other is a mink berkshire
> I'm going to be calling the *Alice* (buff) and *Jenny* (mink)
> 
> -removed-
> 
> -I'm getting them from South City Rattery, a very good rattery in Peterborough, I'm in Toronto so finding a good rat breeder was near impossible (anyone in Toronto looking for a good rat breeder check out http://southcityrats.weebly.com/ She goes to Oshawa and Pickering once her rats are weaned)


 wow! Amazing looking rats 
*
reminder: please don't quote posts with a lot of images. - jaguar
*


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## ratchilla

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Those pictures are super adorable. Especially of the group of them all (you could reach in and go fishing for ratties). 

It's hard, because you see something like that and because of their cuteness, everything else goes out the window. I mean seriously, look at them. At that age and because of their innocence, health doesn't matter. It's one of the last things people look at and the cuteness factor becomes overwhelming. I've done the same. Congrats on your little ones, I really hope they stay healthy and bring you lots of joy.


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



Ratchilla said:


> Those pictures are super adorable. Especially of the group of them all (you could reach in and go fishing for ratties).
> 
> It's hard, because you see something like that and because of their cuteness, everything else goes out the window. I mean seriously, look at them. At that age and because of their innocence, health doesn't matter. It's one of the last things people look at and the cuteness factor becomes overwhelming. I've done the same. Congrats on your little ones, I really hope they stay healthy and bring you lots of joy.


well actually It wasn't because they were cute (I mean what rat isn't?) It was because I couldn't find a rattie breeder anywhere and this was available just at the time I could get them because my personal life would let me, so I went for it thinking it was a very good breeder (I'm not an expert at finding faults on the websites) and one more thing, there is a health record for my ratties like 4 generations in and it's a healthy line.


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

btw, rattie pics will be up soon


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## ratchilla

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*

Yeah, I gotcha. I haven't been able to find any in my area either. I don't know if I'm missing them or if they just don't exist.


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Getting beautiful ratties soon X3*



Ratchilla said:


> Yeah, I gotcha. I haven't been able to find any in my area either. I don't know if I'm missing them or if they just don't exist.


yeah I feel like their out there and that I just can't find them


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Alice and Jenny - the beautiful berks -title changed from "getting beautiful..."*

Here are the pictures
just check out the link and theres the whole set X3
Alice has ruby eyes so they look kinda red in the photos and I know Jenny's nose has some red "stuff" on it and thats just because she getting use to her new home X3
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157626752597515/


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## lilspaz68

*Re: Alice and Jenny - the beautiful berks -title changed from "getting beautiful..."*

keep an eye on the porphyrin (red stuff) on your wee lass.

Btw at this time there aren't any good breeders out there to find. I know, I live in Toronto, and keep an eye on the rat community at large at least in Ontario.

I am glad to hear you will go to rescue babies next time. ;D I just took in 5 gorgeous friendly baby dumbo boys on Friday to rehome, and they are officially adopted and going home next week. The nice rats are out there, you just need to know where to look for them 

This thread is actually a very interesting read on what good breeders do.

http://www.goosemoose.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,118/forum,rat/topic,4085925.0

Do you have a good rat vet lined up just in case one of your girls get's sick?


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Alice and Jenny - the beautiful berks -title changed from "getting beautiful..."*



lilspaz68 said:


> keep an eye on the porphyrin (red stuff) on your wee lass.
> 
> Btw at this time there aren't any good breeders out there to find. I know, I live in Toronto, and keep an eye on the rat community at large at least in Ontario.
> 
> I am glad to hear you will go to rescue babies next time. ;D I just took in 5 gorgeous friendly baby dumbo boys on Friday to rehome, and they are officially adopted and going home next week. The nice rats are out there, you just need to know where to look for them
> 
> This thread is actually a very interesting read on what good breeders do.
> 
> http://www.goosemoose.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,118/forum,rat/topic,4085925.0
> 
> Do you have a good rat vet lined up just in case one of your girls get's sick?


yeah I'll keep an eye porphyrin, It's already going away :3
and no, I don't have a vet planned, which one do you recommend since your in Toronto?


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## lilspaz68

*Re: Alice and Jenny - the beautiful berks -title changed from "getting beautiful..."*

Dr Munn at Greenwood Park Animal Hospital.
www.drmunn.ca

I was just there tonight  My poor Lilith has more eye issues, and I dropped her off this morning for her "usual procedure" but she also has a lump over her eye that was worriesome.

Dr Munn really loves rats, and is very good with them, and extremely knowledgeable. Note I said that last? People have told me after they visit him, at how you can tell he loves the animals, and how much they liked him, but you never hear how knowledgeable he is LOLOL...

He and I have done some interesting experimental procedures before with my rats, and he's not afraid to try anything new to help a rat. I have been through URI's, pneumonia, pyoderma, ectoparasites, CHF, pulmonary abscesses, regular body abscesses, an abdominal abscess we had to drain twice, spays, neuters, amputations, tumour removals, enucleations (eye removals), etc, etc...


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Alice and Jenny - the beautiful berks -title changed from "getting beautiful..."*



lilspaz68 said:


> Dr Munn at Greenwood Park Animal Hospital.
> www.drmunn.ca
> 
> I was just there tonight  My poor Lilith has more eye issues, and I dropped her off this morning for her "usual procedure" but she also has a lump over her eye that was worriesome.
> 
> Dr Munn really loves rats, and is very good with them, and extremely knowledgeable. Note I said that last? People have told me after they visit him, at how you can tell he loves the animals, and how much they liked him, but you never hear how knowledgeable he is LOLOL...
> 
> He and I have done some interesting experimental procedures before with my rats, and he's not afraid to try anything new to help a rat. I have been through URI's, pneumonia, pyoderma, ectoparasites, CHF, pulmonary abscesses, regular body abscesses, an abdominal abscess we had to drain twice, spays, neuters, amputations, tumour removals, enucleations (eye removals), etc, etc...


price range? I know this sounds bad but the price of the vet is a big thing


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## lilspaz68

*Re: Alice and Jenny - the beautiful berks -title changed from "getting beautiful..."*

I am not sure. I get rescue pricing, but its comparable to most vets.

Where are you located again?


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Alice and Jenny - the beautiful berks -title changed from "getting beautiful..."*



lilspaz68 said:


> I am not sure. I get rescue pricing, but its comparable to most vets.
> 
> Where are you located again?


I looked it up and im like 15 minutes away from that vet, im between victoria and pharmacy and like 3 minutes from eglinton


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## distancel

*Re: Alice and Jenny - the beautiful berks -title changed from "getting beautiful..."*

Wow I love the pictures, they look adorable. Glad to hear they are tame and friendly too.


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## Ratilove2

*Re: Alice and Jenny - the beautiful berks -title changed from "getting beautiful..."*



distancel said:


> Wow I love the pictures, they look adorable. Glad to hear they are tame and friendly too.


Thank you very much X3
yeah they are so sweet :3


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## Kinsey

They are adorable babies.

Everyone else pretty much covered it but those rats are basically well socialised pet shop rats. Culling is a nasty practice, and not one I would condone with rats.


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## Ratilove2

Kinsey said:


> They are adorable babies.
> 
> Everyone else pretty much covered it but those rats are basically well socialised pet shop rats. Culling is a nasty practice, and not one I would condone with rats.


Thank you, and yeah I know that now, I'm already thinking about getting these two beautiful rats from a rescue near me, ones a variegated berk like alice and the other one is a siamese w/ ruby eyes

p.s. I will be for sure getting a bigger cage before getting them


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## prairieorchid

Hi there, I am new here and will be a first time rat mama on Aug 24th to 2 pearl merle dumbo boys. I have been reading this thread with much interest. First off, you say there are no reputable breeders in Canada and don't buy from a pet store, instead look into rescues. So, if I'm not mistaken, the only place rescued rats can originate from is either a pet store or an unreputable breeder? So if that is the case, what would be the difference? I have purchased my boys from a rattery that keeps records of all her rats and lineage. She studies her genetics and is very aware of megacolon and other health issues and breeds with the utmost importance to health and temperament. All her rats are sold as pets only, though she will help and mentor if you are interested in becoming a breeder and will help you create your lineage with her written consent. She does not want her name associated with anyone who breeds her animals without her written consent. She is the ONLY one I could find in my province. Any others I found in Canada would not ship...sooo what is a person to do? I think the only way to get reputable breeders is to allow a breeder to get a reputation, which means that their ratties have to get out there to prove how reputable they are, doesn't it? I am/have been a breeder/ exhibitor of cattle, horses, goats and dogs and the reputable breeders become reputable by consistently breeding to better the breed of what they produce keeping imaculate breeding records and pedigrees. Sorry for the long post, but I am just having a hard time trying to figure out what determines a rattery to be reputable or not. I am looking forward to getting my boys home and hope I can help to build the reputation of the rattery I'm purchasing them from.


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## jburgess

where are you located prairiecrchid???


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## prairieorchid

I am in Manitoba.


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