# SHOCKING , infanticide



## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Hi im just writing a post here for my friend who doesnt have internet access and would like to know if anyone else has had exprience of this.
Basically my friend has kept a neutered male rat for around 9 months and recently decieded to get a female as company for him.The female turned out to be pregnant *sigh* but he was quite happy as he had homes for the babies to go to.
However 2 weeks after the litter was born he came downstairs to find 5 dead babies very bably mutilated and with the brains missing , the male had literally eaten a hole in the babies skull.
He separated the male immediately of course and now keeps him in a separate cage.
What my friend and I would like to know is if anyone else has heard of this and what could be a possible reason for it ? it just seems so bizarre.
I have heard of different species eating thier young if the parents can sense illness in a baby but 5 totally healthy babies ?
Any info on this would be very much appreciated.


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

P.S the rats had access to plenty of food in various varietys and the cage was very large.


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## HylaW (Mar 14, 2008)

I dont know. Most people here recommend the babies and the mom be kept in their own cage though. Probably for this reason. Im sorry this happened


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

I thought pregnant moms should be seperated too, just to relieve stress.

I wouldnt think they would usually kill babies, but they will start to eat them if they died, same goes for their cagemates. They are just natures cleaners.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

I hear rumors, now and then, of males killing infants because they may not be theirs... but I haven't had someone come up and say 'yes, this happened to me'... then again it's recommended to remove the other adults, just in case something goes wrong.

However, it's possible the babes weren't 'perfectly healthy' after all.

If they died (or the mother could sense they were... off...) you'd find just such a scene.


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## Rattiegma (Jan 23, 2008)

Yeah, it's very possible that the babies had some illness that hadn't shown any symptoms yet. Also, are you sure the male ate the babies? Just from reading up on some things when I adopted a pregnant female, I would think it'd be more likely that the mother would have eaten them. How long had the male and female been together when she gave birth? Maybe the female really wasn't comfortable with the male, and decided to take care of her babies herself so he couldn't? 

But there's really no way to say what happened, because a pregnant mother should really always be seperated from any other rats. I am sorry this happened, though.


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

I guess he will just have to put this down to bad , one off experience. We assumed it was the male as the female is looking after the remaining 3 babies with no problem.
Im sure ive read on here somewhere that it was ok to keep the mother rat with her babies and assumed it would be cruel not to.Also ive heard neutered males usually make very attentive parents.I guess it varies in each case.
I will print this page and pass it on to my friend , im sure he'll be very grateful for all your responses, as I am.


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

You should always keep the mom with the babies so she can feed them etc. 

I say always, but obviously if the babies are in danger from her then you would obviously remove her.

I think in most animals (and humans!), after giving birth the mom just needs as little stress as possible.

Im glad 3 of them survived. Can we get pictures when they are bigger?

Also, is your friend going to seperate the babies when they are older? Remind him that they will need to be spayed/neutered too if they are going to stay together past (i think) 8 weeks? Someone can correct me on that...


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Ill see if I can take some pics next time im round there.I told him to separate the babies as soon as they are sexable and before 6 weeks as ive read at 6 weeks they can start to re produce.Its just weird this happened as the male and female were getting on fine for 2 weeks before she gave birth.I guess it could be any number of reasons.A lesson learnt the hard way I think.


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## Caity (Apr 1, 2008)

They can reproduce at 5 weeks. I would arrange to have the boys separated a couple days before the very beginning of week five, just as a cushion. Although it's not ideal to remove them before five weeks it's better than having lots of babies, inbred at that. You can sex them at around two weeks I think, at which point it is too early to remove them from mom. He should just be sure to makes arrangements to re-home or separate the males as soon as they're ready, but it should definitely not be before four weeks.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

You can sex them now or wait until 3.5 weeks and wait for the male's testes to start to descend. 

Males to be removed at or just before 5 weeks, baby girls can stay in with Mom. You can then intro the neutered boy back in with them or he can stay with the boys instead so he has friends.

I take it the mom came home pregnant and your friend's neutered boy didn't just have a botched surgery?


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## AZratkeeper (Jan 27, 2008)

yes this is happens just about every time i have heard of a male in with a female and her babys i have persnally lost 4 babys to a male rat i came in time to save the rest i have a freind who used to breed and he lost about 3 litters to a male cause he didn't research and learn about this
[ PS my freind stopped bbreeding and i bought his rats off of him ]


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## RoRo (Mar 10, 2008)

It's accually instinct to a lot of animals to kill off the babies to bring mother into heat. :;cough:: With babies mama won't be soon off to have another litter. With out babies she's open for business


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## BowlTipper (Mar 21, 2008)

It is best to keep males separated from females, not only to avoid pregnancy, but also to ensure if there is a pregnancy, that the babies are not killed. Unless of course the mother does it, which means there was something wrong with the babies.


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