# Unusual Behavior



## vildar (Apr 10, 2008)

I have 2 female pet rats. Had them both for about 6 months now and they have been getting along fine. But just recently the older one Tish has been randomly attacking the yonger one Lilli. This is not like the normal play fighting they do, Tish has been full biteing lilli and pulling. Lilli has a puncture mark on her nose and is now staying in one of the pipes in the cage. she will not come out or move at all. 

I had to squirt water at Tish to remover her teeth from lilli's back. And i had to forcably grapple her of Lilli. 

What is going on here?
Also, both Lilli and Tish have been randomly stuffing hay into corners/filling the pipes with the hay. 

I have removed Tish and put her into a seperate cage on her own for now.


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## Hallie-Mae (Jul 31, 2008)

Well, they're in the teenager stage so they're probably just fighting for dominance. If you leave them be, it's going to be stressful for them but in a few weeks or so the alpha rat will be determined, and they'll stop fighting.

I would most definately not recommend that you seperate them. Not only will it prevent them from doing what they naturally have to do, but they'll get lonely and pine for each other.

As for them "randomly stuffing hay into corners/filling the pipes with the hay", that's just something all rats do  It doesn't mean anything, they're just building a nest. 

Oh, I also recommend that you don't use hay, as rats can harm themselves on it


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## vildar (Apr 10, 2008)

This is the thing though, they have never done things like this in the 6 months i have had them. If they were fighting for the alpha position, surly lilli would fight back? At the moment she does nothing and just squeels as if shes in pain. 

Same with the stufing hay in the pipe. It is complatly full of it! Again they havent done this before. But i will put them back together as you have sugested.

Also what can i use as the bedding? I have been told i cant use the softwood that hamsters use, and i cant use shredded paper as the ink will make their fur dirty. Hay was the only one i have been told is ok.


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## Hallie-Mae (Jul 31, 2008)

They've probably only just started fighting, as they've hit the stage where their hormones are kicking in. Lilli might not be fighting back because she's showing Tish that she doesn't want to step up for Alpha. 

Not sure why they've only just started stuffing the pipes... I've also noticed that my girls only begin building nests when they grow up aswell, they'd never do it as babies. Probably just an instinct thing. 

I've been using newspaper for years now and it's never made their fur dirty  I base it with newspaper, and then cover it with paper cotton shreds and cardboard squares - both of which you can get for cheap at the pet shop 

Whoever recommended straw doesn't know what they're talking about 8O Straw is frowned upon as it's been known to puncture rats eyes / throats etc.

Other alternatives are things like aspen bedding (needs freezing for a few days before using though), or specifically made paper-based litter, such as Yesterday's News or Carefresh.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Hmm, this is an odd one. Girls don't tend to get hormonally aggressive as much as is common in boys, so for her to suddenly start acting up may have another cause other than just her age.

Has anything been changed in/around the cage? Any lifestyle changes that could of disrupted them in any way?

When you say that the older one grabs and pulls the younger one .. although an act of dominance they can often do this as more of a maternal act of pushing around. Is blood drawn when this happens with your two?


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## vildar (Apr 10, 2008)

She dosnt grab as such, she clamps her teeth onto the yonger one and pulls. 
Nothing has changed in the cage atall. I had however the day before cleaned the cage out. But other than that nothing has changed.

I havent noticed any blood, but on Lilith i can see what looks like a small bite mark on her mouth. Also Lilli seems to be a little scared of me. I go to stroke her or pick her up, and she now runs or jumps away from me. Before she was usualy the first to jump on my hand and start licking me as she runs up to my sholder.


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

My girl rats started to fight for dominance at around the 6 month mark too , I was pretty shocked at how rough it looked and some of the squeeling noises they were making but I was assured by my friend that it was just normal and after a week or so it had all calmed down.
They still have the occasional fight when the smaller one starts feeling brave enough to challenge for alpha and in fact sometimes she wins and is the boss for a few days !
Its really interesting to see the power swaps and behaviour of the two together.
I guess what im saying is are you sure this is really vicious looking fighting or is it just because youve never seen it before its got you a little bit worried ?
My suggestion would be to keep them together for a few more days and observe them as closely as possibly.If you see anything that looks overly agressive such as blood being drawn or outright bullying where the lesser rat cannot get away id try a separation for a short time but with the two cages placed next to each other.
Good luck.


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## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

To all experienced rat owners as well, would adding a few more girls help? Just a thought. Now she has only one that she singles out. I have four and they have never done that when they were maturing.


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## Hallie-Mae (Jul 31, 2008)

I doubt adding more would help - might just make the situation worse, because then they'd all be fighting for dominance. And if the new ones are younger, then they'll just be instantly bullied into submission which wouldn't help their taming.


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## vildar (Apr 10, 2008)

Well it seems it was a one off thing. she hasnt attacked Lilli again since. Thanks for the information on the bedding and such. Just one more thing while i am here, they both seem to be scratching alot and i dont know why. Any ideas?


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

That could be the cause of all your problems. Mites cause a lot of scratching and they can irritate the heck out of rats, causing aggression. Maybe it's time to get them checked out and treat them both and see what happens to that aggression?


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## junior_j (Jan 24, 2008)

I would just keep a eye on them , use different safer bedding and hope things are ok 
Jess x


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## vildar (Apr 10, 2008)

Well i have changed their bedding from hay to that carefresh stuff, and also some packaged recycled paper that on the back says its good for rats. As for the fighting it seems to have been a one time thing. It has not happend again as far as i know. 

The thing is i cant seem to see any type of mites or whatever on neither of the rats. But i did see what looks like scaps on the back of Tish.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Mites are usually microscopic, therefore not viewable by the naked eye. A skin scraping may be required to confirm (although these often give false negatives) or a vet may decide to treat anyway


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## vildar (Apr 10, 2008)

Would buying some small animal shampoo stuff work? I cant realy take them to the vet at the moment as i hardly have any funds. If i was to buy some mite treatment shampoo instead, would that be advisable?


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