# Rat Ambassador?



## Aiko (Jan 26, 2014)

Hi, I've heard of people having their rats become rat ambassadors and help promote education of these wonderful little guys, and I'm extremely interested in doing the same with a few of my kiddos. I already do it unofficially, promoting the rats and education about their care at the pet store I work at (I love my store, we refuse to sell for feeders, I actually got to kick someone out my first day), taking my own babies out in public and educating people at the bookstore, etc that come up and ask, but I'd like to do more, like take them to schools or hospitals. I know it's possible, I'm just wondering if anyone out there could give me some information about how to go about doing this?


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## zmashd (Dec 25, 2013)

I would guess just find out who's in charge and go and propose the idea to them!
Churches tend to be in touch with a lot of charity so there's that too.


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## Aiko (Jan 26, 2014)

My only issue is I don't know if they or I have to have special training or certification. =/


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

I'd be interested in that too! I have a couple that are trustworthy/ well behaved  


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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

I have always wanted to do this in the UK. 

Maybe approaching the places you'd like to visit and see what their feedback is and they may be able to point you in a great direction. 


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## kjgannon09 (Oct 16, 2013)

You do not need certification, but having your rat certified as a therapy rat certainly helps. Just call up the director of where you're interested in going and ask if that is something they would be interested in. Special needs children and patients at nursing homes are very appreciative of a ratty's gentle love.


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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

kjgannon09 said:


> You do not need certification, but having your rat certified as a therapy rat certainly helps. Just call up the director of where you're interested in going and ask if that is something they would be interested in. Special needs children and patients at nursing homes are very appreciative of a ratty's gentle love.


Thanks for the info! How would you go about getting your rat certified? 


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

We've done the local "special kids" picnics two years with Fuzzy Rat...

The specials have a 4th of July picnic in the park and we pretty much just walked into it... literally we were walking through the park and were overwhelmed by "special kids" out of nowhere and everywhere.

There was a couple that had brought their African parrots, I don't know if they were paid or parents or just cornered like we were, but big parrots can be intimidating and rats are fuzzy and soft and Fuzzy Rat made many friends. The next year we actually went on purpose. 

First of all I don't know of any certification for rats as a companion animal. The fact is that there are so few shoulder rats, in my state two legal status wildlife or pests depending where they are. Rats are not even recognized legally as pets, much less service animals... It actually goes to our benefit as our rats can go right past signs that say "NO PETS" where no food is sold or at outdoor locations. If a squirrel can go there a rat can go there.

Our public Library has adapted by changing their No Dogs sign to No Pets and now to "NO ANIMALS". And rats are animals, no way around that one.

The most important thing to know is that some "special kids" will grab at your rat and pull it's tail and squish it and try and pull it away from you and throw it. Trust me, your rat better be very very docile, durable and friendly and you better be faster than an autistic kid or your rat will get badly hurt or a kid will get bit.

I don't mind crowds of normal kids and adults, but specials are risky business and for the most part a learning experience you won't fast forget... I still have a vivid memory of an autistic boy holding Fuzzy Rat by the tail with her not letting go of his pink frosted cup cake. The trick by the way is to scoop from underneath and lift the rat up quickly so she doesn't get degloved and he lets to as his hand goes over his head. It's a neat trick and you have to be fast. In any even the kids mom let Fuzzy Rat keep the cupcake, so she was happy.

So... what do you need to know? First of all your rat needs to be a top notch true shoulder rat that likes people. Second you need lots of practice at crowd management and should have an assistant along. Third if you are serious about doing this you should pick up insurance so you don't get sued into poverty if some moron hurts your rat and your rat bites them...

Shoulder rats are lots of fun, and we meet and greet lots of people, but there are very different liability standards between "accidentally" meeting a mob of special children in the park and arranging an official presentation.

In one case you were trying to be nice in the other you instigated the injury. Remember, no judge is going to find in favor or a dangerous 'rat' against a human child.

In any case this is what it looks like with normal adults and kids...














As to training true shoulder rats, I wrote a thread on the subject... It's old but I believe it's still open.


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## blueberryratlover (Jan 4, 2014)

I would love to have my rats be therapy rats. 


> You do not need certification, but having your rat certified as a therapy rat certainly helps. Just call up the director of where you're interested in going and ask if that is something they would be interested in. Special needs children and patients at nursing homes are very appreciative of a ratty's gentle love.


Do you know how/where you would get your rats certified?


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I once adopted a Seeing Eye Dog that had failed out of the program in Morristown NJ. I know what it takes to certify a seeing eye dog, but trust me... rats will never be certified as companion or therapy animals... Rats just don't live long enough and there isn't enough money in it. 

NJ requires a license to keep exotic pets, rats end run around the license because technically they aren't even pets. As wildlife or vermin they don't need a permit, but for sure no one is going to issue one a certificate. I might add that there is a health department ordinance in my town which requires homeowners to kill rats on their property which thankfully no one is enforcing with regard to fancy rats. I've talked to the local health inspector and we have gone through the various laws and we have an understanding. As long as no one complains during working hours, my rats are invisible to law enforcement... in fact they "officially" don't even exist. I can go where ever I want and do as I please as long as no one complains during the hours of 9 AM to 5 PM. And I can live with that.

I've looked at the status of rats from both sides and sometimes it's a close call, but I honestly think we are better off the way things stand now... Once rats get any kind of a legal status there will be rules as to where they can go and when and who can own them and permits that cost money and you will be required to have insurance and licenses... and it just might not be as much fun anymore. One of the reasons I have shoulder rats over dogs is because I don't need a leash and don't have to carry around a pooper scooper and a baggie.


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## kjgannon09 (Oct 16, 2013)

Certain organizations, such as the one below, allow a variety of animals to go through their program. Several Guinea Pigs have successfully made it through the program, so why not rats? Therapy animals come in many different forms, but they all have to pass tests to make sure they are good candidates. 

http://www.animalhumanesociety.org/training/therapy-animals

Also check out this article about a lady who has been using rats in therapy for years:

http://kingsriverlife.com/06/18/service-animal-rat


I have contacted several organizations that work with out-of-the-ordinary therapy animals about getting my Cady certified. I'll let you know what I hear!


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## Aiko (Jan 26, 2014)

Thank you so much! I'll definitely check those links out! I'm also going to talk to my brother's fiance, who's a fourth grade teacher, and get that perspective. I'm a HUGE advocate for rats as pets and for educating people on them, I'd love to be able to share it with more than just my customers or the people I meet at the book store. Kids are where the learning begins.

Of my seven rats, I think three of them would be ideal. Sully, my neutered male, is my first choice, he's a big cuddle bug and very sweet and mellow. He's great with everyone, and is the first rat I introduce new rescues to. He's great with kids, too, my cousin adores him. Then there's Iris, my momma rat. She's at least partially blind in one eye due to an injury when she was a baby, but doesn't let it affect her at all. I've never met a kinder, friendlier, or more outgoing girl than her. She'll give kisses to just about anyone, though she has a bit more energy. Still, she, like all my rats, knows being on the leash means calm down. Last is my youngest, Harley. She's about six months old and very calm when we go out. At home she's a playful bundle of energy, but when we go out she just sits in my arms or on my shoulder til she gets tired, then crawls into the change pocket of my purse to take a nap. The other four are a bit more, well, let's say neurotic, though Lexi is super friendly, she's just two years old and likes things done her way.

Thanks for all the information, everyone, and keep it coming!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I've certainly heard of therapists suggesting rats as therapy animals. But rats have such a slippery legal status most places I can see where that alone can be a problem... In NJ rats aren't even considered domestic pets. I mean a rat would have the same chance as a therapy squirrel or companion beaver for consideration. And to make it worse rats don't live as long as either. A seeing eye dog can have a service career over a decade, even a guinea pig lives twice as long as a rat. And lastly who is going to insure a rat? You can bet that if your rat bites someone's 'special' kid or Alzheimer granny, you are going to pay for the medical bills and for pain suffering and plastic surgery.... especially if you had it certified and brought it into the situation as a service animal.

Lastly, consider how few rats actually can be true shoulder rats which they would have to be before they can be service animals. If your rat runs away in a senior home and disappears into the duct work you might have to pay for the exterminator on top of everything else that goes wrong. And that's not even worrying about the rat phobics you might run across that could panic if you bring a rat into their room.

When Fuzzy Rat was alive, I pondered the same things you are... she did bring joy and comfort to special children and many seniors that met her loved her and she was kiddie safe sustaining a nasty tail injury going down a slide with 5 little girls she didn't bite even though she got hurt pretty badly. And she didn't bit the autistic boy that grabbed her by the tail... but my part wild rat would have torn all those kids to pieces. And she was a real sweetheart with my daughter and me; only ripping a singular chunk out of one of my palms once.

When you have a stellar shoulder rat, it's easy to get optimistic and see the up side to rats as service animals... then when they die so young and when you consider just how rare they are, their slippery legal status and the liability involved... it just gets hard to imagine that a child care center or senior assisted living facility would let you bring one in. My daughter's grade school has banned our rats and went out of their way to distribute a flier telling all the children they can't bring "animals" onto school grounds. And I've seen people pick up their kids with dogs and no one comes outside to kick them off the school property.

I have considered rats as animals for prison inmates to work with instead of dogs... and that might have some hope if someone is willing to take the liability risks. Imagine getting sued by a serial killer because your rat bit him... and yet in my state... you would lose.

Not having a status, gives me lots of freedom to go and do as I please. Fuzzy Rat was welcomed almost everywhere under the radar... except the public school and the library. Making rats pets would have banned her from many places we went and by qualifying some rats as service animals that would again make travel more difficult for all of those that weren't certified. And as there is no money to be made doing it, and a lobby that doesn't want rats classified as pets, I'm not optimistic about the prospects of ever seeing a legal companion rat.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Aiko,

I don't mean to suggest your shouldn't take your rats out to meet and entertain people. Fuzzy Rat and now Max have made appearances at almost every town function for the past few years. They are popular and draw crowds and hundreds of children and even more adults have met them and they have changed hearts and minds without an special status. I encourage everyone with a true shoulder rat to get out there and do meet and greets, first for the fun of it and second to spread the word rats are wonderful pets and friends.

I just don't agree with the certification idea. I don't want to have to get Max certified to do what we already do... and that's if it goes through... I can already feel the resistance to service rats building and it's only a pipe dream.


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## Aiko (Jan 26, 2014)

Well the thing is, I don't want to do therapy service, I want to do education, be an animal ambassador. When I was a kid, we had a guy do a reptile presentation in front of the entire school-he was the only one who handled the animals. Also, in fifth grade, we had some falconers present their birds to my classroom because we were reading My Side Of The Mountain and my teacher wanted us to learn more about Frightful and what happened with her. Again, it was look don't touch only. Even though I know for a fact that the three I have in mind are bombproof, especially under harness, I don't intend to have people touch them. I only want to get certified if it's necessary. I just want to present my pets, explain why they're so great, basic needs, the history of rats as pets (they've been kept since Victorian times, etc.), what rats do for humans (la testing, the HEROrat initiative, etc.), stuff like that. I want to educate and promote, not give comfort and cuddles.


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## Aiko (Jan 26, 2014)

Also, I don't know the status of rats here in Arizona, though for what I want, the worse the status is probably better. If they can bring falcons or mountain lions into classrooms (we have the Sonoran Desert Museum here in town and they used to be known for doing outreach programs that included bringing their animals -including the mountain lion- to schools to educate the kids), why can't I bring my rats? I mean, those wild animals are certainly not pets, and we have multiple pet stores in town that sell rats, including the chain I work for, which ONLY sells as pets and will kick out customers if they insist on buying a feeder (I've done it, VERY satisfying).


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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

kjgannon09 said:


> Certain organizations, such as the one below, allow a variety of animals to go through their program. Several Guinea Pigs have successfully made it through the program, so why not rats? Therapy animals come in many different forms, but they all have to pass tests to make sure they are good candidates.
> 
> http://www.animalhumanesociety.org/training/therapy-animals
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information. I will definitely look into it. 

All of my rats love to be out and introduced to other people. Especially children! 

I am a wheelchair user and they seem to really understand where is and isn't safe for them to sit. 

I want to go to schools first or groups like scouts, girl guides. And my grandmothers social group. 

(When I was in a pet shop once with two of my boys there was a scout group on a talk and many of them came to say hello. They knew how to be gentle and the rats loved it) 

I hate the idea that because a child has special needs they can't interact with a rat. I have needs as I am a wheelchair user and I know of many people with learning difficulties finding rats therapeutic. Especially if they find social situations hard. A rat is easier to talk to than a person. 

My big concern with it all is those who think rats are vermin and want to harm the animal. Which is why I would never take a rat out without a pouch or carrier for it to go in if such people are about.

I believe many rats can be shoulder rats. All four of mine were/are. It's all down to patience and curiosity. 

Please do let us know if anyone gets to go and be a rat ambassador I would be really interested to see how it goes. 


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Oddly, I kind of agree with you... the lack of status goes to your advantage. As "wildlife" you are likely to have a more legitimate 'educational' appeal than as someone doing a presentation on their "pocket pet". I see the presentation being skewed towards the natural history of rats and then sneaking in what wonderful pets they can make. 

In NJ which is a relatively small state there are over 80,000 practicing lawyers and everything is about liability. Anyone doing anything on school grounds would most likely need to present a certificate of insurance. Perhaps in Arizona, which is still part of the USA school administrators might be more realistic or at least understanding. And yes, I'm thinking the museum has insurance if they bring mountain lions into a school that would cover their outreach programs.

When I was a kid there were a few animal presentations scheduled too, I don't recall them actually taking place... I think the beaver died the day before we were supposed to see it... But there was a roving petting zoo that came once per year with a 3 legged goat... amazingly the petting zoo still goes to my daughter's school annually for kids to see meet and touch bunnies and certain farm animals... I might note that most kids in NJ have never seen a cow or a horse much less a sheep or a goat. Again, the roving petting zoo is a business, has been roving since before my time and likely has all kinds of insurance in case a bunny bites. 

As my daughter is now 8 and was in kindergarten when we got Fuzzy Rat we went to the playground with our shoulder rat. And Fuzzy Rat would chase the kids around like a puppy, and yes she got a few toe nails pulled out and her tail cut, but amazingly she never got herself killed dashing around between little kids feet. But we got pretty used to crowds gathering and I would do an impromptu rat presentation to groups of parents. The kids mostly wanted to hold and play with the rat. I've done the same presentation hundreds of times... "This is Fuzzy Rat, she is very friendly and never bites... she loves people and would really like to meet you, would you like to make her aquaintance...." ending in a Q&A "No you don't need to walk most rats; she eats anything you eat including very inexpensive rat food and no rats don't need rabies shots..." Over her lifetime she met hundreds if not thousand of children and adults and it was a very rewarding experience for her, for us and for the many starry eyed children and adults that experienced her. We even to her to the circus where we attracted a huge crowd. It was rather funny that we were standing in front of an exhibit called "worlds largest rat" (which was really a stuffed nutria) doing photos with our very much real and alive rat which people could meet for free. We got to meet the elephant and the horse trainers and got compliments on how well trained our rat was from them. It was great fun, but in the mob Fuzzy Rat would not walk at heel so it was mostly just meet and greet. We got an assist from the horse trainers when we put her down to go potty and she decided she had to meet the ponies and slipped through the fence. 

Back to schools... My wife is a teacher and has asked if she could bring in a rat to class for a demonstration and was told that if it's relevant to the lesson her principal would permit it. As my wife is rat phobic and can't handle a rat herself we never worked out the logistics. I won't permit our rats to be dragged around in a cage and put on display and be terrorized by a mob of children with no one they know there.

But one fine day, I went to pick my daughter up from kindergarten, I decided to take Fuzzy Rat along, but she didn't want to go out for some reason but my part wild rat did, so I scooped her up an walked to school. As soon as school let out we got mobbed. Dozens of kids and their parents (yes here parents are supposed to pick up their kids from school because of all of the pervs we register rather than lock up) mobbed us. And yes, there I was with a vicious rat surrounded by a mob of children. That rat did the talk, sniff touch thing, so that's what I did... every kid had to say something, then let our rat sniff them and then they could touch (while my heart stopped beating). It went amazingly well and our part wild girl put on quite a show, giving kissies and letting herself be petted one kid at a time as I walked slowly backwards around the school grounds to avoid getting overwhelmed, but the going was slow compared to working with Fuzzy Rat and within a few minutes the principal an a group of teachers and security staff came running out the door like the school was on fire. It turned into quite a scene... the principal a young Hispanic woman was terrified of rats, one teacher who's sister kept rats argued that rats were safe and friendly (if she only knew...) and the security guy was in the background clearly trying to not get involved. This is the first time I heard the liability argument. Starting out with "What happens if a kid gets bit?"... and ending with "Who is going to pay the damages?" I offered to let the principal meet the rat I had along because she was being very good, but to be honest... I had the wrong rat with me and a long stressful argument was going to go against my position. The incident ended with my daughter bringing home a flyer saying "no animals were allowed on school property" the next day, which still annoys me, because I've seen people pick up their kids with their dogs along and even saw a lapdog walked right into the school. 

I suppose I can't imagine a rat presentation without a meet and greet where the kids get to touch and hold a real live rat. And yes sometimes getting your rat back is no easy trick with some children... but there is real magic in the words "Mommy, she's so soft" and "She kissed me!" That's the point where hearts melt and minds change... I've seen it hundreds of times. 

My daughter is an only child, and therefore has a little trouble meeting kids, Fuzzy Rat broke the ice for her and was the conduit to her social life. And even though I only brought our rat to school once, she's still the girl with the cool rats and all the kids know her. Fuzzy Rat had an important job in our family, introducing my daughter to other kids, she was a real life rat ambassador. And two weeks before she passed away she made her last public appearance at the town 4th of July fireworks show... She was only 6 oz of rat wrapped in 20 oz of tumors and could hardly walk, her eyes were dull and didn't reflect the fireworks... but the kids still lined up to meet her and she still gave out kissies. And as several of the local kids had known her most of her life, they were concerned about her deformed condition and I had to tell them it was her "farewell appearance" a few cried... it was a little sad... and it was the first time Fuzzy Rat could not lead us back to the car, she was exhausted by the time we left at 11:00 pm after a 5 hour met and greet. We likely pushed it, but I knew it was her last public appearance and it was hard to see her life as a true shoulder rat and as a rat ambassador end...

Halloween was warm enough for us to take Max along, so we went door to door with a rat,introducing folks throughout our neighborhood to Max. We even got invited in one house. Folks stood on their porches watching us go house to house with Max and gave us extra candy for her. And other trick or treaters stopped foraging for candy to meet our rat. We also stopped by the town Halloween Safety event at the high school baseball field and I'm guessing Max met at least several dozen people and was seen by a couple hundred more which is not too shabby for a "wildlife" or a "pest".

So I think you should get out there if you have the right rat or rats... There are parks, playgrounds and lots of public places you can already take your rats to like town fairs, fireworks shows, circuses and other events. You can meet hoards of kids walking home from school on public sidewalks where no one needs to give you permission... I've been stopped twice by cops because I attracted too many kids and they didn't know what to make of a guy surrounded by little kids, but after letting them run my ID and introducing them to my daughter, it wasn't much of a hassle. 

Although I can't imagine a public appearance without a hands on meet and greet, and schools tend to prefer to buy slick presentations by companies with insurance for auditorium events, I certainly encourage you to give it a try. Just remember you don't need any kind of certification or official approval to be or have a rat ambassador. The opportunities are already out there.

Lastly, a couple of months ago a fellow at a gas station convenience store asked if he could meet the "TV rat". He insisted he had seen Max on the news. I told him it was most likely another rat, but the guy said he was sure it was Max. Honestly I don't recall ever being recorded by TV cameras, but these days everybody has a smart phone and we get photographed all the time. Whether it was Max or some other shoulder rat that was attending a public event and got filmed, every true shoulder rat can be a rat ambassador.

Best luck, get out there and keep us posted on your success.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

RatloverDan...

There is a strange myth going around especially among some South Asian people that small animals (especially rats) can cure their children of autism... Now there is no truth to it, but we've had our rat swiped by people insisted on introducing her to kids that could and did hurt her. After two special needs picnics and living in a state where 5 out of 100 kids are born autistic, I can tell you from lots of personal experience working around special kids that they can be very dangerous for your rat... those kids have very fast hands and don't understand that rats aren't supposed to bounce or get squished. And trust me their parents can be worse. I'm 6' 2" and 200 lbs... I don't have problems with people that don't like rats. It's the people and kids that get too hands on that are the real problem. 

I've introduced Fuzzy Rat to wheelchair children and downs syndrome children with great success... and some autistic kids have been very gentle other's have instantly clamped down hard as a vice. But toddlers in general and some autistic kids are dangerous, and if you choose to do it... be very very careful. The first time you see your rat being flung by the tail is the last time you're going to want to see it happen. And don't be fooled... it happens so fast there's nothing you can do until after your rat bounces at least twice.


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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

Thanks RatDaddy. I'll take your comments on board. 

I love working with children that have extra needs and with all animals there is an amount of risk. But with the ones I have come across they are very understanding. 

But I suppose I have been selective and cautious making sure the rat can hide whenever it wants (making sure I've established STROKING NOT GRABBING) 

But this is more of a happenstance when I've been out rather than a group talk so situations may change. 

I wish there were rat conventions or something so I could meet fellow rat lovers and find out more about how to get to therapy groups etc. 


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I didn't want to walk a dog or carry a pooper scooper so rats seemed the perfect pet for my 5 year old... Then along came Fuzzy Rat and I was doing presentations to crowds of people. You've had your rats out with you... you know how fast a kiddie flash mob can form around your rat. Some special children can't do stroke or gentle... and many toddlers only do grabbing. And when you have parents pleading for your rat to cure their kids autism... it can get real strange. One parent even claimed Fuzzy Rat helped his child and told others... His kid was pretty functional when we met, that's why I allowed the meet and greet... If anyone has their doubts... Rats don't cure autism, even Fuzzy Rat couldn't do that. Autistic kids often follow rats around, but that's because they are small and moving not because they are enchanted or likely to be miraculously cured.


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## Aiko (Jan 26, 2014)

While it would be nice to be able to do the kinds of things you do with your rats, here in Arizona it's just too dangerous to let animals run free like that. All the wildlife hazards aside, including jumping cholla that LITERALLY detaches from the plant and tries to attack you if you get too close, the snakes, the hawks, the coyotes that are completely unafraid of humans (I knew a close family friend whose teacup chihuahua was taken by a coyote while it was out to pee less than 10 feet from her) and everything else out here that wants to kill you, you also have to worry about pets. People here are terrible about letting animals roam off leash or about letting them out of their yards. I can't tell you how many horror stories I've heard about loose dogs (sadly, primarily pit bulls, we have a huge dog fighting problem here, people even get their family pits stolen to use as bait dogs) attacking cats/smaller dogs/children/adults/large dogs/horses/everyone. It's on the news most every night. Arizona is literally a state that wants to kill you. Not to mention people are not afraid to chase you out if they don't like your pet (I've been kicked out of places that allowed pets on leashes, but apparently this doesn't include harnessed rats).

Another big disadvantage rats have here is Arizona has Valley Fever, a terrible virus that gets kicked up in the dust and is extremely common in low slung dogs, though my friend's greyhound got it because he ran around the yard too fast and kicked up too much dust and breathed it in. I don't know if rats can get it, but I'd rather not risk it.

But despite all those above dangers to little ratties, probably the biggest danger to them is the reputation of their wild cousins. I don't know a single person who hasn't had thousands of dollars of damage done to a car thanks to a wood rat (we call them pack rats) making a nest in the hood. I've had it happen, both my parents have, my dad twice, everyone gets it at some point. And you can't live catch pack rats and relocate them, they just come back. I know someone who caught a pack rat in a have a heart trap, managed to paint its toenails pink, dropped it off fifty miles from his house, and caught the same pink toed rat a week later. They're also notorious for having kissing bugs in their nest and transferring Hanta virus and other diseases, including bubonic plague and typhoid. Not to mention the nest itself. People HATE them. And that hate tends to extend to other small furry things. In a state where everything is trying to kill you, I don't think anything gets more hate than pack rats.

Which is why we rat lovers are almost an underground society here. I really want to share them with people, but I have to be clever about it, and to avoid getting chased off I can only take them to places where all animals are allowed, like the book fair, certain pet friendly book stores, and pet stores. I'd love to branch out and do the kind of things you talk about doing with Fuzzy Rat, but here where I am, it's just not possible. When we go out, my rats know they NEVER leave my shoulder, their carrier, or in Harley's case, my bag unless I take them out and put them somewhere else, like on a counter or give them to another person. More often than not they sit where I put them and I let people pet them. It's just plain safer that way.

Trust me, the first time your beloved furbaby gets mistaken for a pack rat is one of the most terrifying moments of your life.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Our local NYC rats and Newark rats aren't very popular either... I find it important that the rats I work with don't look like wild rats. You are right of course people judge by appearances.

I've heard of pack rats, they are not a local species... it sounds like they deserve some credit for living in such a hostile environment. I have an opossum living in one of my old cars... I check occasionally but aside from wrapping herself up in plastic shopping bags, she hasn't done any damage so she can stay until I need to move the car.

I've never been to Arizona, but we have lots of dangers here too... Shoulder rats are in constant danger everywhere... managing the risks is easier when you are working with a really excellent shoulder rat, but as the handler you have to make the calls that are right for you and your rat.

Certainly I avoid places where wild city rats live and woodpiles with rattle snakes in them, disregard any advise that might get your rats killed. 

Just keep in mind a rat's best survival tactic is to surf under the radar and go unnoticed until it's too late. Some years ago, I went to the town I was living in to get a zoning variance for a home office.... I got crucified... between outrageous building modifications they wanted and the paperwork involved, it wasn't even a close call... I would have gone bust long before I even did any business. Then next town I moved to, I just didn't tell the town and I've had my office there for nearly 20 years now. 

Flying under the radar and finding ways to do meet and greets and becoming popular in your community is doable. Our rats are well known around town and other than the library and one school, I've even carried them through municipal buildings. It seems the more popular they become the more invisible they get to the authorities that would otherwise make my life miserable.

If we had asked permission to attend public events, there's no way it would ever have been granted... but when at our first town 4th of July celebration we were mobbed by the special kids the fire department was doing a picnic for and we put on a meet and greet for the kids, we pretty much won over the fire department same day and they had friends... But turning up unexpectedly and drawing crowds of happy kids and adults... under the radar... and being insidious like real rats are, we've slowly won over our environment. 

When we would walk along the sidewalk with our rat people would pull over to say hi stopping traffic or blow their horns and wave. I can't say if there's better way to introduce fancy rats into a community, but our way worked and you might find some way of adapting your approach into your hostile environment...

I might add one more footnote.... shoulder rats really do best in suburban areas. The more rural or urban you get the more resistance you run into. I can't say why... but we traveled a lot and it was harder to find places to eat that allowed rats in rural areas, and in urban areas where there are lots of wild rats and people are uneducated in general, more people were actually rat phobic. Your target area is semi-affluent to affluent suburbs.


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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

Wow it seems you all have a lot to deal with in the USA!! 

Here in the UK when the rats are out the biggest threat would be humans as we don't have many animals. And the ones we do are cowardly towards humans. 

I hardly ever see wild rats, unless I'm near a waste disposal sites or a farm. 

I hope that as time progresses more people will become rat lovers. 

My grandmothers friend when she was growing up had one. And that was unheard of, 70 years later I have them as do many people over the world. 

So maybe in another 70 rats will be more popular than hamsters? Who knows. 


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Dan,

Hamsters really are pretty good pocket pets, their more solitary lifestyle fits in with what busy people can handle easily. They are competing mostly with the new even smaller hamsters, fancy mice and gerbils.

Rats, especially shoulder rats, compete in the same niche as lap dogs. And lap dogs have certain advantages over rats, one being it's a niche they have occupied for a very long time, the other being that they live much longer. And lap dogs can be trained and are affectionate too.

I expect rats to make more inroads into the marketplace here as our society gets ever more urban and the price of lap dogs continues to soar.

Of course in the US we also over-legislate everything. When I was a kid my dog went everywhere with me... now it's hard to take a dog anywhere. It's actually sad to see people and their dogs fenced into dog parks... Which was another selling point for our shoulder rats. No pooper scooper and very few legal limits.

And yes... wildlife is making a come back even in NJ, we have foxes, bears and coyotes now and the coyowolf isn't too far away... not to mention eagles, owls and hawks. Naturally we still have some rattlesnakes and copperheads and some huge black king snakes that the wildlife department set lose in the 1950's to kill off the rattlesnakes and the copperheads. Fuzzy Rat had a remarkable facility to find wild rats in some very strange places. You would actually be surprised how often she would find them around playgrounds and schools and alongside highways. But to be honest, with a true shoulder rat an experienced handler can pretty much make it work. Also, if you think about it, wild rats survive all across the US without much human help.

But it is a matter of adapting to your local environment and taking the right risks. When we first started going out, we were advised that our rats would get sick from going where wild rodents live. This seemed a real danger but instead our shoulder rats developed a remarkable immunity to the point where I worry about hot house rats coming in contact with _them_. Rats are remarkably adaptable. But I can see where a rat might pick up a henta virus it's become immune to and give it to it's human family if the virus lives in the local soil and a rat can carry it.

Still, I would never encourage anyone to take risks just because I do it. Remember, my girls started out as feeder rats rescued minutes to hours before being eaten by a snake. Their life might be one of managed risk, but their option was almost certain death. The fact that Fuzzy Rat died of tumors and age was a real testament to her durability and intelligence. To be honest, she was the first shoulder rat we worked with and when we started out we didn't have a clue what we were doing and were very ill-equip to protect her. Max has it easier even though she lives in a long shadow.

Still the biggest industries involving rats in the US are pharmaceutical research, pest control, educational institutions and the reptile trade. Mainly that's why rats don't have a status as pets here. Since guinea pigs became popular they aren't used for research much any more, even though "guinea pig" still remains a generic expression for a test subject and as bunnies have become more popular they too aren't used much in research. Dogs are still used, but it's not a real industry anymore. There's even a movement to protect the horseshoe crab... I suspect efforts to legitimize rats will be met with strong opposition. And as the money and votes are against us, it would be a very bad battle to engage in at this time. There are vested interests that would lose big if rats got any sort of protection or legal status. And that's why I very much prefer to fly under the radar and insidiously convert people to our cause without making any waves. Fuzzy Rat had hundreds if not more friends of all ages, and many children will grow up and teach their children about how wonderful rats are because of Fuzzy Rat and Max. That in turn will change things for rats eventually... If anyone took a vote today, pet rats would be banned, not protected.

That's why my advise is to be like the rats we love, low profile and insidious. You pop unexpectedly make new friends and disappear before the resistance can get a handle on your activities. 

We once walked into a crowded McDonalds around lunch hour on a Saturday and were asked to leave, so we took our food to go and ate outside in the parking lot. The place was full of kids... who followed us outside, as did their parents and all of the other curious people. Within minutes the place was empty. And as new people came they stopped to meet Fuzzy Rat and it turned into quite an event.... while the McDonalds remained empty. And my daughter who was 5 told people why we were eating outside and most people went to the pizzeria next door, not that we suggested it, they just thought about what they preferred and the pizza place did a bumper business... and the McDonalds remained empty... We were in no hurry and my daughter found other kids to play with so we ate leisurely and met lots of nice people... The next time we went back to that McDonalds I asked my daughter to wait outside with Fuzzy Rat... The manager saw my little girl and Fuzzy Rat outside the door and sent her assistant manager to bring them in, she herself vanished into the back room. We had a nice dinner and met some of the patrons and everyone was very happy and McDonalds wasn't closed for a dinner service. Which apparently the manager decided was the lesser of two evils. I don't know if word got out, but most of the local McDonalds are rat friendly now. And btw, there is no way rats in restaurants are ever going to get official health department approval. 

There's actually a local police force up in the mountains that nicknamed Fuzzy Rat "the little health code violation". We always stopped in a 24 hour convenience store around 10 PM Sunday evening on our way back from the mountains... the second shift was rat friendly. There was usually a cop there on break, I suppose no one believed the same cop we saw every weekend that a rat came in Sunday nights, so one night the officer came over to us and started chatting.. within minutes there were 6 more local police cruisers in the lot and a State trooper. We are talking about being smack in the middle of nowhere on a Sunday night and every bored law enforcement officer on duty for at least 30 square miles showed up at the same convenience store at the same time to see the shoulder rat. We got a lot of ribbing involving the local health code which made the staff uncomfortable, but no one asked us to leave or even suggested we shouldn't come back again. I'm going with converting 7 cops to our side as a pretty good evening's work for a rat ambassador. And I'll bet they are going to re-tell the story about the freaky friendly rat they met to their friends an families. And one of the sales clerks at that store bought a hamster because her mom wouldn't let her have a real rat... And pet rat sales are up according to my local pet shops who welcome our shoulder rats with open arms... Fuzzy Rat may have been insidious, but don't confuse crafty for ineffective. 

Actually, I suppose the only down side to becoming part of the landscape is we don't get much of a surprised reaction around our home anymore... Many people are so used to our rats they don't even react anymore. Imagine standing in line at a checkout counter with a rat on your shoulder and no one even making a single remark. Ho-Hum it's just a another rat in line ahead of me. Oddly, that takes a bit of getting used to too.

Yes, it would be nice to do presentations in the school, but if I wanted to meet 100 kids and introduce Max to them, all I would have to do is stand across the street where I can do it, when school let out and I'm guessing I'd have the same effect. But to be honest, 100 kids is quite a mob scene and not something you take on lightly or on purpose. Groups of up to 10 are easiest to deal with.


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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

Sorry RatDaddy. 

I was only making a silly remark! I wasn't trying to insinuate that they would be. 

Sorry. My sense of humour must be different... 


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

No need to make an apology... you just got me thinking about rats not being pocket pets... the dangers we face and in general how to improve rats place in our society... I just happened to be in that kind of mood... this morning... not your doing at all. 

Sometimes I forget I'm thinking out loud.


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## RatloverDan (Jul 21, 2013)

Thanks for the reply 

I think the danger with all pets is people and 'fads' 

The whole 'my friend has one so I want one' or 'my favourite celeb has one so I want one' 

It's a interesting point you make. 

I am always glad that in the UK 'feeders' are not allowed so I don't have to go through the pain of wanting to rescue lots of babies. 


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## Aiko (Jan 26, 2014)

Yeah. I wish I could do that kind of thing. The urban/rural/suburb thing is a very good point. Tucson might be a big city with over 1,000,000 people, but it has a very rural feel. We're often described as a big city with a small town feel, which is definitely true. I considered it a very good day when I stopped at the bank after a vet appointment for my old lady Lexi (she'd sprained her leg) and about five women came to say hi, and even the bank manager came over and offered her a dog treat as long as she stayed in her carrier while we were there. I was honestly surprised he was the only one who didn't want her there, usually it's the opposite.

I took my rat Misha to the Festival of Books once, and my friend brought her boy Ianto, and the place was CROWDED, we had about 20 or so people come up to us, the majority of them kids, though most of those kids got yanked away by their parents before they could do more than say hello. That's what I face here, which is why I want to do this right. I want to educate, not say "oh, these are my pets, aren't they neat, you should get some!" I have to start at the bottom every time I meet someone, "no, they don't carry diseases, they're actually very clean, they've been kept as pets since the Victorian times, they're one of the ten smartest animals in the world" and so on and so forth. I just want to reach a wider audience than the one that's already receptive.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

We've been a local attraction for over 3 years now, and sometimes I don't have to do the speech anymore as so many people have already heard it. I've done it so many times I can do it in my sleep and likely do... But the speech is actually very important, it's where you start to educate people. 

The only thing I remember from the petting zoo that came to my school was a three legged goat... or was it a sheep... well it doesn't matter any more, but there you have it, it didn't change my life any and I didn't learn anything about animals. I spent a summer living on a farm, I learned a lot more there. 

Frankly small groups help you polish your skills and make your presentation slick and informative. When people ask about rats as compared to dogs, I always point out my rats aren't on a leash or in a cage, they are free to run away at any time, but they are loyal and trustworthy friends. And that impresses people!

You might not think 5 people at a bank is a big deal, but each had a family who heard the story of the rat in the bank at dinner... Those 5 were actually more like 20 and if you add in the bank employees that little meet and greet influenced quite a few people. 

With kids, I have a daughter who is about 8 years old now. When around kids she usually carries the rat. Other moms see a little girl playing with a pet rat and that inspires them to let their kids try it. The moms themselves usually keep back or talk to me first, but they almost always let their kids hold and play with our rats. Every now and then, you hear one telling their kid that they will have to wash their hands when they get home, but I can live with that. We've met single people who were interested, we've attended mass public events, we've been mobbed and we even met a local chapter of a motorcycle organization. We've met hundreds if not thousands of people. And I've repeated the "This is Fuzzy Rat (or Max) she is a trained fancy rat and she loves people, she never bites... would you like to meet her?" speech and the following Q&A so many times I haven't heard a new question in so long it's scary. And when I hear the truly stupid ones, I never get offended. "Yes wild rats can be dirty, but that's because they are living in sewers, if you lived in a sewer do you feel you would be any cleaner... And sure rats can bite, just like dogs and even cats.. well trained rats are just like dogs or cats... And yes, rats are smarter than dogs, they are tiny and have to survive in a hostile world and see my rat isn't on a leash... And every once in the while, when I'm looking to have a little fun and I get someone particularly resistant.... "No she's not a rat - rat, she's a highly trained fancy rat... a completely different animal..."

And when people insist that wild rats are nasty and dangerous, I almost always agree... I tell them about my part wild rat that tore up my neighbor's hand and confirm that playing with wild rats is a very very bad idea. Which really underscores how different my friendly shoulder rats are... 

I know people are hooked when they start asking the right questions, like where can I get one, how much do they cost, what do they eat... whether they buy a rat of their own doesn't matter, I know they are thinking about rats as pets by that point.

One of the fun games I play if I have enough people around is I have them all hold hands and stand in a circle then back up until their arms are outstretched. Then I send my rat around from person to person across people's arms shoulders necks and arms again until she comes back to me. Fuzzy Rat did it with me in the circle, with Max I walk around the circle from the outside and she follows me... either way with a group of six or more people everyone has a blast being scampered over by a shoulder rat... Teenagers are particularly fond of this game. And just about everyone would be impressed when I'd put Fuzzy Rat down and she would walk at heel along side me.

I never did, this is my rat and she's our pet... ( although sometimes my daughter would do that with kids) I did... "This is Fuzzy Rat and she's a highly trained super intelligent animal." And people stood in line to meet her. Evenings we would walk her at the park and we would sometimes have an entourage of more than a dozen stoned teenagers... 

To be honest, I know exactly where you are at, when we first took Fuzzy Rat out we ran across more skeptics than open minded people, by the end of her life she had more friends than I ever did. Children, old folks, immigrants, bikers, stoney teens, exterminators, lab technicians, snake keepers and breeders, veterinarians, bankers, retail and food store managers and staff, cops and minor government officials were among her friends... Yesterday, we were at the hardware store with Max and Max poked her head out from under my daughter's coat and the owner laughed and remarked "Aww that's so cute..." I haven't been there with a rat since Fuzzy Rat passed away, over a year ago... the first visit started out with "Is that a RAT?" Today... it's "Aww that's so cute..." I doubt the hardware store owner even realizes how much his attitude has changed. We went from not getting thrown out to actually being welcomed.

If you have your doubts, remember cars are sold one at a time... then think about how many cars there are roaming the worlds highways from Greenland to Terra Del Fuego.... Don't stress the big stuff, get out there when and where it's safe and start changing the world...

Lastly you won't change everybody... one cop once told me he would rather be shot than hold a rat... you should have seen the look on his partner's face, I didn't dare laugh until he left... Yes, he checked out my ID and met my daughter to make sure I wasn't a perv, but overall he left us alone with a warning not to attract so many children because it "just looked wrong"? His partner looked more and more concerned as he talked, and I think he was getting more concerned about his partner's mental stability than our rat. Which was in itself funny. 

True shoulder rats are a blast and the ambassador thing is just the icing on the cake.


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## kjgannon09 (Oct 16, 2013)

Rat Daddy, 
I do agree with you. The current legal status does make it easier to take the ratties places. They don't need certificates to be ambassadors either. Fuzzy Rat is a great example of that, and I love hearing the stories of the people she met and impacted.
I've taken Cady to work with me several times (on my days off, not during my shifts!) to meet everybody, because my coworkers just couldn't believe a rat could be trained, or even tame for that matter. She has made several new friends there, and even people who cringed when I first told them about my rats have warmed up to the idea of them and even reluctantly admitted that "she is cute!" 

The reason I'm interested in a certificate or official title is that I'd like to take her places that are a bit more restricted, and do more with her. She has yet to meet a stranger. I've seen how she's brightened days and touched people's hearts, and I'd like to extend that to different types of places and people.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

You see, what I'm really afraid of when it comes to rats getting a legal status and certification is more that they may wind up being banned as travel companions entirely. By creating a certificate process and a testing process the bar can be set so high even Fuzzy Rat and Max might not qualify or the cost might become prohibitive, or professional training might be required similar to seeing eye dogs... A seeing eye dog must be trained at a seeing eye facility, you can't train your own. 

So basically when you get to a store the manager can just ask to see your certificate, or you can be stopped at a park and ejected with your un-certified rat. Seeing eye dogs have tattoos in their ears, might not a similar mark and document be required for a certified rat? 

Now, I might have the money and time to get my shoulder rats certified, but how about if I had to show a need to own a certified rat, as in a handicap of some kind? So my rat might be certifiable but I don't qualify to own such an animal... as in I'm not licensed to display rats in public or I don't have the appropriate medical condition to require a companion rat.

And remember the people that draft the laws or do the certifications might not like rats...

My seeing eye dog was permitted to go anywhere a human could go because he had a tattoo in his ear, but the reciprocal was also true... every other dog without the tattoo had to stay out of almost everywhere...

Sure you are all thinking your rat can be certified, and the process will be fair... So, how about if I were to certify your rats? I'm a rat owner, I really like rats, I'm an advocate for shoulder rat training and I've owned two rat ambassadors... So far so good, right?

This is an actual photo taken at the moment when Max was becoming a true shoulder rat... This was her final test, and one Fuzzy Rat blazed right through... and did at least twice more for fun.









It's dark outside, there are hundreds of people around us and Max is on my shoulder as the final fountain of a town fireworks show is going off, with no leash... Being a true shoulder rat is very dangerous, so my standards are set appropriate for the risks... Failing my final test very well might be lethal for your rat... I think my test is fair, both my own true shoulder rats have passed it... Now think very carefully before you answer... are you absolutely sure you would want me testing you and your rat for a certification?? If your rat fails, it very well might not live to see the next sunrise or it could be freaked out for life... 

And if your rat doesn't successfully take the test it won't be allowed out in public at all. Still like the certification idea? And how about I throw in mandatory 3 month vet visits to prove your rat isn't carrying any diseases that could get anyone or any other rat sick, at your expense? I mean your rat might come into contact with children or other rat owners, we wouldn't want to kill anyone with hentai etc...

There are just so many ways a certification process can go wrong it boggles the mind.

Be very careful what you wish for... you just might get it.

And if your still not convinced, imagine the following headline and photo...


TWO LOCAL GIRLS DIE AFTER EXPOSURE TO CERTIFIED PLAGUE RAT - CRIMINAL CHARGES SOUGHT FOR RAT OWNER THAT FAILED TO HAVE THEIR CERTIFIED RAT PROPERLY TESTED.










Don't panic, there's no hentai virus or other diseases in my area and these girls did not die or get sick... There's no health test requirement. Max is perfectly healthy and no one has ever been charged with failing to health test their rat... I'm just playing devil's advocate.


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## Aiko (Jan 26, 2014)

You do know that all you need to certify an animal as a service animal in a note from your doctor in some cases? I become overly anxious when separated from animals for too long. I was once told by a friend who suffers the same problem that his doctor gave him a note that allows him to take any of his pets with him anywhere so he won't have a panic attack. I haven't done that yet, but I have asked my doctor, and it is possible. No training or certification needed, this animal is with me for a medical reason, 'nuff said. Yes, this is a different issue, I'm just putting it out there so that you know that not all animal 'certification' needs extensive training.

Personally I would never take a rat to a fireworks show, or any animal. If it's too loud for my ears, I can't imagine how painful it must be for them. I cater to what I think my rats would enjoy. I know the three I have in mind for what I want would love to do this, and I know my old lady would love it too, but she's a bit bossy and opinionated (just like Mummy!) and hates being in a carrier, EVER. Again, I don't want to present them as pets, I want to be professional about it, present them as an educational tool. I've done it before for a class project, I took Lexi and Tub out for a school project I did on rats, and both did great, though this was almost a year ago, when Tub was still a baby, before she turned into the Drama Queen she is today<3. Wouldn't dream of taking her out like that again. One screech and chaos would erupt. Haha! But doing the research for that project showed me that what I want to do has been done before, there are actively people out there educating people about rats using their own pets as educational tools, so it's not like what I'm doing is new or profound, I'm just following in the footsteps of others.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I certainly have no problem with rats being an emotional support animal, mine certainly help me when I feel blue. I'm not sure that equates to being an ambassador to the public. I also have difficulty with taking any rat that's untrained and untested out into public for any reason. If you get your rat lost or killed I'm thinking it might undermine whatever benefit it was having on your emotional condition.

As to working with a rat in public, it has to be bombproof or it's going to get killed fast. Training and testing is how rats learn to survive in situations that they would never put themselves into in nature. And it's how rat handlers learn to manage and work with their rats. Fireworks are actually kind of a mixed bag for rats, they rather like the light show, although they see colors differently than we do, they can get quite engrossed in the colorful star bursts. Of course the loud shells really test their ability to handle shocks. Fuzzy Rat did three big shows and hung out with us while we played with things that go boom in the night. She really did like the colors... and handled the noise by hanging on tight to us.

Basically, I assumed that the certification that you would want would certify your rats health, safety and public competence and perhaps your qualifications as a handler or trainer and a reasonable liability insurance policy. I think that's what I would assume a certified rat would be if a certification were required to bring your rat into my place of business or educational institution. Otherwise what else would you be certifying to me?


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