# Is it safe to purchase/administer Baytril yourself?



## cephres (Sep 8, 2014)

My male rat Wink has been wheezy/snorty on and off for months. I'm fairly sure it's mycoplasma. He seems to be having a flareup right now, but I just dropped like $250 to neuter him(plus $1000+ on my poor cat) so we have no money left for another vet visit ): I am considering following this guide to administering Baytril to him. Is this okay? Even though I'm not 100% sure its mycoplasma? And is the guide right? i.e. the dosage it says to give, the length of time to give, and the bottle they link to buy? I feel very strange and nervous not following a vets advice because I am scared I will hurt him in some way. I could really use some guidance/opinions on whether or not this is ok to do on my own.

Also, does Baytril need to be refrigerated?? I am getting mixed answers when I Google... ???
Thanks so much for any responses <3


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## Millie & Daisy (Mar 7, 2015)

Yes, it's safe to use Baytril, but it's hard to come by (if not impossible) online without a prescription. I've tried to get my hands on meds for mine this way in the past, and it's proven impossible. As it stands, vets have to write prescriptions for antibiotics and there's really no way around it. There was some kind of loophole that allowed people to buy antibiotics for birds, and I've heard of people get amoxicilin or doxcycline for birds in fruit flavored tablets and using it in their rats water. The dosing, however, isn't precise when administered in this way, and it's risky because rats sometimes refuse water with added substances in it. And no, Baytril doesn't have to be refrigerated. It should be kept room temp and is good for about 2-3 months.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

I bought on the web amoxycillin, doxycillin, and Baytril without a prescription. I never had any issues whatsoever. I NEVER use it in their water. I compound them with some Torani syrup and water.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

I always follow RatGuide for dosage instruction of ALL meds. I keep my 10% liquid Baytril in the fridge. It has an expiration date of 7/18 and I bought it about 6 months ago. Once it us compounded with syrup I use it within two weeks and compound some more if needed. http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/enrofloxacin_baytril.php


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

It depends where you are in the world. In the UK and europe its very hard to get meds online, in the US its easy, however be sure you get one from a trusted supplier as you need to be sure that your getting good quality stuff. Theres a very good guide to it here https://www.facebook.com/notes/real...ow/baytril-mixing-and-dosing/1689158098004352

I am UK based but know that lady goldfinch is considered one of the safe sources for meds in the US.


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

Gribouilli said:


> I always follow RatGuide for dosage instruction of ALL meds. I keep my 10% liquid Baytril in the fridge. It has an expiration date of 7/18 and I bought it about 6 months ago. Once it us compounded with syrup I use it within two weeks and compound some more if needed. http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/enrofloxacin_baytril.php


I've always been told not to keep baytril in the fridge?


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## cephres (Sep 8, 2014)

Thank you so much to everyone for replies, I will be buying him some Baytril as soon as I get paid


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

moonkissed said:


> I've always been told not to keep baytril in the fridge?


I've read both argument for keeping it in the fridge and not keeping it in the fridge. I just don't see why it would make it worse to keep it in the fridge. Do you know why one shouldn't keep it in the fridge? If yes, please let me know and I will just buy another one. It is confusing as many people say to keep it in the fridge.


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## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

Gribouilli said:


> I've read both argument for keeping it in the fridge and not keeping it in the fridge. I just don't see why it would make it worse to keep it in the fridge. Do you know why one shouldn't keep it in the fridge? If yes, please let me know and I will just buy another one. It is confusing as many people say to keep it in the fridge.


i think it might depend on the form/what it's compounded in. i looked it up myself, after it appeared strange having been in the fridge. apparently the baytril crystalises at a certain temp, which causes the issue of dosing it, since it then isn't mixed properly. i tend to notice the affect if it gets too cold.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

I put it in the part of my fridge being the warmest...I never noticed any crystallization though. I'm going now see if it says anything on the bottle on how to store it...


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

Nope it doesn't say anything on how to best store it. However, I got some from my vet in the past and was told to put it in the fridge.


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## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

it may well depend on how it's compounded then, perhaps some things keep a suspension better. i don't think crystalization impacts the medicine, so long as it's restored to room temp and shaken up after though.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

I always shake it up for 1 minute before doing any compounding though. Once it is compounded in syrup it has to be refrigerate, that I know (my vet told me so). It can't crystallize in syrup anymore anyway. You're right, crystallization wouldn't affect the med as long as it is restored to a temperature that makes the crystallization go away. I'm going to email the business I got the med from- just to get an extra opinion on the matter.


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## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

Gribouilli said:


> I always shake it up for 1 minute before doing any compounding though. Once it is compounded in syrup it has to be refrigerate, that I know (my vet told me so). It can't crystallize in syrup anymore anyway. You're right, crystallization wouldn't affect the med as long as it is restored to a temperature that makes the crystallization go away. I'm going to email the business I got the med from- just to get an extra opinion on the matter.


just searched baytril and refrigeration and found this on ratguide:


Reconstituted suspension from powder should be kept refrigerated and has a 14 day expiration time.
Injectable Baytril should be stored away from direct sunlight. Do not refrigerate the injectable form, freeze or store at or above 40°C (104°F). Precipitation may occur at cold temperature. To redissolve, warm and then shake the vial.
so it sounds like you probably have the suspension from powder, and i have the injectable form i'd guess (which i think i've heard tastes awful - i'm amazed smoothies cover it up).


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

I thought I would share. This is from the facebook group Rats are Awesome.

You can get $5 off baytril using their coupon code "RAA"
From here: http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/baytril.html

https://www.facebook.com/groups/RatsandMiceareAwesome/permalink/1188443691269826/


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

Skyerobin said:


> just searched baytril and refrigeration and found this on ratguide:
> 
> Reconstituted suspension from powder should be kept refrigerated and has a 14 day expiration time.
> Injectable Baytril should be stored away from direct sunlight. Do not refrigerate the injectable form, freeze or store at or above 40°C (104°F). Precipitation may occur at cold temperature. To redissolve, warm and then shake the vial.
> so it sounds like you probably have the suspension from powder, and i have the injectable form i'd guess (which i think i've heard tastes awful - i'm amazed smoothies cover it up).


I actually gave the injectable form of Baytril. I store it high in the door compartment where it is the warmest in the fridge. I shake it really well before compounding and never saw any crystallization. If I understood correctly, it isn't an issue as long as no crystallization is present and I shake it well, correct? I worry when it comes to my babies❤-


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

Thanks for the link. If you think I should just go ahead and buy another one- please let me know. It is not a problem I joined the "rats are awesome" group, yeah more rat knowledge.


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## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

Gribouilli said:


> I actually gave the injectable form of Baytril. I store it high in the door compartment where it is the warmest in the fridge. I shake it really well before compounding and never saw any crystallization. If I understood correctly, it isn't an issue as long as no crystallization is present and I shake it well, correct? I worry when it comes to my babies❤-


yeah, as far as i can tell, as long as you can't see any crystallization when dosing, and shake well before there's no issue. i just know what i've been able to research though, so i'm no expert, and we seem to have slightly different experiences. i used the same part of the fridge, funnily enough, and saw crystalization quite soon.


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

Gribouilli said:


> Thanks for the link. If you think I should just go ahead and buy another one- please let me know. It is not a problem I joined the "rats are awesome" group, yeah more rat knowledge.


I like being in the group, it is one (if not the) largest rat group. But fair warning a large group means ALOT of crazy as well. But lots of rat pics! 

I spam my baby pics in that group so much lol

I think as long as it isn't crystallized it should be fine.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

moonkissed said:


> I thought I would share. This is from the facebook group Rats are Awesome.You can get $5 off baytril using their coupon code "RAA"From here: http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/baytril.htmlhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/RatsandMiceareAwesome/permalink/1188443691269826/


As I was looking around their website, I came around this product. Do you think it would be safe for rats? Would it help URIs in rats? Thankshttp://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/wheeze-eeze.html


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

I wouldn't use any spray on or near a rat personally.As for baytril do not forget that 10% enrofloxacin is 100 mg/ml and MUST be diluted before giving.If you keep to a 1 ml of enro to 1 ml of syrup it should be 50 mg/ml solution. I personally dose baytril at 15 mg/kg rTher than the standard 10 mg/kg. If you need help working out doses, just let us know. We will need to know the weights of the rats so try to get your hands on a digital scale as well


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

Gribouilli said:


> As I was looking around their website, I came around this product. Do you think it would be safe for rats? Would it help URIs in rats? Thankshttp://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/wheeze-eeze.html


i'm not really sure. It doesn't say what is in it. I'd probably not use it.

Another thing you may want to try is basil. I started adding it to my rats mush. Apparently it is used in the chicken world to help prevent URI issues and some are using it for rats as well.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

moonkissed said:


> i'm not really sure. It doesn't say what is in it. I'd probably not use it.Another thing you may want to try is basil. I started adding it to my rats mush. Apparently it is used in the chicken world to help prevent URI issues and some are using it for rats as well.


Thanks Fresh basil? They also sell something they call "salad of herbs", I started a thread about that product but no one tried it here. I read about many breeders using herbs in a bowl and letting the rats self-medicate. What do you think, can rats self-medicate?http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/salad_of_herbs.html


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

lilspaz68 said:


> I wouldn't use any spray on or near a rat personally.As for baytril do not forget that 10% enrofloxacin is 100 mg/ml and MUST be diluted before giving.If you keep to a 1 ml of enro to 1 ml of syrup it should be 50 mg/ml solution. I personally dose baytril at 15 mg/kg rTher than the standard 10 mg/kg. If you need help working out doses, just let us know. We will need to know the weights of the rats so try to get your hands on a digital scale as well


I do 1 ml Baytril and 3 ml syrup (or 1ml water, 2 ml syrup) so I get a 25mg/ml solution. Have you read about people giving herbs salad to their rats? And letting them pick whatever they need to feel better or self-medicate? Here is a product for birds and was wondering if it would work for rats too. I went through all the herbs and didn't see anything that would be bad for rats. http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/salad_of_herbs.html


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

Gribouilli said:


> Thanks Fresh basil? They also sell something they call "salad of herbs", I started a thread about that product but no one tried it here. I read about many breeders using herbs in a bowl and letting the rats self-medicate. What do you think, can rats self-medicate?http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/salad_of_herbs.html


I've been using fresh i would think dried is ok too. I didn't actually think about it.

That salad of herbs looks interesting. I wonder if everything in it is safe, I thought I read licorice is bad but I can't remember. I don't think I would just put it in a bowl. I'd probably mix it into food. 
Mostly because I think my rats would eat it all up right away and also make an absolute mess and waste alot of it lol

I am really big into mixing together a mush food thing. That way they get alittle of everything and I can make sure they are eating it all lol
I just made this one for my momma rat that had rat food crumbs, eggs, tons of veggies, blue berries, flax, coconut oil, oats, etc... She loves it!

Oh also I don't think most animals can self medicate. I think while they do have alot of natural instinct left, domestication has taken alot of it away even more so when it comes to food. So I do not think they would eat is as they needed it. Just my opinion.


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## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

on the topic of self medicating, i do think rats can, though it would probably depend on how tasty the thing is and whether they can connect the effect to it. i give erin and ripley something called healx/avix booster to help with myco. when i started they ate a little and left the rest (the dose is very tiny, 0.1 ml). it looked like they disliked it while being curious. but that continued, and they would eat the 0.1ml-ish like they were forcing it down, and then avoid it like something gross when they'd had enough. i've noticed whenever they're under the weather they'll eat more, having less when they feel better, and it does seem to ease minor respiratory symptoms.

interesting about the basil - i'll have to try it myself. i think one of my relatives is growing some, but i'm not sure, otherwise i'll have to buy some. i imagine fresh is better, and tastier.

i wouldn't risk something containing liquorice though, but herbs are packed with nutrients and can't see them doing harm (if they aren't toxic), even if a ratty was to go overboard chomping down.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

I started a thread a couple days ago about the herb salad for rats. I don't want to hijack the topic on Baytril so I will continue the discussion here:http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?312954-Herbs-Salad-For-Rats


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## Mkd (Mar 24, 2021)

lilspaz68 said:


> I wouldn't use any spray on or near a rat personally.As for baytril do not forget that 10% enrofloxacin is 100 mg/ml and MUST be diluted before giving.If you keep to a 1 ml of enro to 1 ml of syrup it should be 50 mg/ml solution. I personally dose baytril at 15 mg/kg rTher than the standard 10 mg/kg. If you need help working out doses, just let us know. We will need to know the weights of the rats so try to get your hands on a digital scale as well


The rat book by Debbie Ducommun says 10 per cent enrofloxin at 100mg per ml the dose is .1 ml per pound twice a day. Is this the same you are saying?


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## Mkd (Mar 24, 2021)

Mkd said:


> The rat book by Debbie Ducommun says 10 per cent enrofloxin at 100mg per ml the dose is .1 ml per pound twice a day. Is this the same you are saying?


This is very important cause I'm out of injectable baytril the vets use and the 10 per cent enroflaxin is all I have. Please respond


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## CorbinDallasMyMan (Feb 24, 2017)

Mkd said:


> The rat book by Debbie Ducommun says 10 per cent enrofloxin at 100mg per ml the dose is .1 ml per pound twice a day. Is this the same you are saying?


This thread is pretty old and lilspaz68 only pokes their nose in this forum every once in a while. They're more active at the Rat Shack Forum, though. 

The dose recommended by the late Debbie Ducommun is a bit higher than other more trustworthy sources (a lot of Ducommun's practices were controversial). 

The RatGuide recommends a dose in the range of 5 to 20 mg/kg. Lilspaz68 recommends 15 mg/kg. To figure out how many milliliters of medicine this equals, you need to provide your rat's weight. You can weigh your rat with a kitchen scale that measures in grams. You can't figure out the dose unless you know your rat's weight.


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## Mkd (Mar 24, 2021)

CorbinDallasMyMan said:


> This thread is pretty old and lilspaz68 only pokes their nose in this forum every once in a while. They're more active at the Rat Shack Forum, though.
> 
> The dose recommended by the late Debbie Ducommun is a bit higher than other more trustworthy sources (a lot of Ducommun's practices were controversial).
> 
> The RatGuide recommends a dose in the range of 5 to 20 mg/kg. Lilspaz68 recommends 15 mg/kg. To figure out how many milliliters of medicine this equals, you need to provide your rat's weight. You can weigh your rat with a kitchen scale that measures in grams. You can't figure out the dose unless you know your rat's weight.


His weight is 1.6 pounds. I only have the 10 per cent 100 mg per ml enroflaxin. The other guy says it Must be diluted but according to unfortunately the late Debbie Duccummons the dosage should be about 1.6 ml straight out of the bottle that I have. I don't want to overdose. Thank you so much for replying.


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## Mkd (Mar 24, 2021)

Mkd said:


> His weight is 1.6 pounds. I only have the 10 per cent 100 mg per ml enroflaxin. The other guy says it Must be diluted but according to unfortunately the late Debbie Duccummons the dosage should be about 1.6 ml straight out of the bottle that I have. I don't want to overdose. Thank you so much for replying.


Does 10 percent enroflaxin at 100 mg per ml mean 90 percent of the bottle is just "filler". This stuff says it is suppose to be put in bird water but its all I have.


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## CorbinDallasMyMan (Feb 24, 2017)

Mkd said:


> according to unfortunately the late Debbie Duccummons the dosage should be about 1.6 ml straight out of the bottle that I have.


Nope. Debbie D suggests 10 mg/lb which (for a 1.6 lb rat) would come to 0.16 ml of 10% Baytril. 

Lilspaz68 (who I trust more than Ducommun) recommends a dose of 15 mg/kg, which is about 6.8 mg/lb. According to lilspaz68's advice, you should give your 1.6 lb. (726 gram) rat *0.1 ml* of the 10% Baytril. 

Remember that 10% Baytril is pretty caustic and must be diluted. The easiest thing to do would be to measure out the proper dose of Baytril then mix it in to a small amount of meat baby food or something on a spoon. You want to mix it with enough baby food to mask the yucky taste. If you mix it with too much baby food, your rat might not finish it all in one sitting. 



Mkd said:


> Does 10 percent enroflaxin at 100 mg per ml mean 90 percent of the bottle is just "filler". This stuff says it is suppose to be put in bird water but its all I have.


Probably 99%+ is filler. 10% means there are 10 grams of the active ingredient in each 100 milliliters of liquid.


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## Mkd (Mar 24, 2021)

CorbinDallasMyMan said:


> Nope. Debbie D suggests 10 mg/lb which (for a 1.6 lb rat) would come to 0.16 ml of 10% Baytril.
> 
> Lilspaz68 (who I trust more than Ducommun) recommends a dose of 15 mg/kg, which is about 6.8 mg/lb. According to lilspaz68's advice, you should give your 1.6 lb. (726 gram) rat *0.1 ml* of the 10% Baytril.
> 
> ...


This is confusing. I did miss a decimal point and Debbie D formula does work out to .16 ml of 10% enroflaxin. The other guy said though it had to be diluted cause of the strength and that really worried me. So its not the strength of the 10% that has to be diluted but because of the caustic nature . Right? Also if 10% enroflaxin has 10% of active ingredients per 100 ml of liquid is that is that the same as saying 10% enroflaxin has .1 % of active ingredients per 1 ml of liquid ?


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## Mkd (Mar 24, 2021)

Mkd said:


> This is confusing. I did miss a decimal point and Debbie D formula does work out to .16 ml of 10% enroflaxin. The other guy said though it had to be diluted cause of the strength and that really worried me. So its not the strength of the 10% that has to be diluted but because of the caustic nature . Right? Also if 10% enroflaxin has 10% of active ingredients per 100 ml of liquid is that is that the same as saying 10% enroflaxin has .1 % of active ingredients per 1 ml of liquid ?


I also had 100mg per ml of injectable batril and was using .05 ml for treatment. Does that sound right? What would that work out to with 10% enroflaxin ? Sorry if I'm getting on your nerves but I don't judge and my rats life I'm sure is very important to him and I'm trying the best I can to get his health back to him.


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## CorbinDallasMyMan (Feb 24, 2017)

Mkd said:


> Also if 10% enroflaxin has 10% of active ingredients per 100 ml of liquid is that is that the same as saying 10% enroflaxin has .1 % of active ingredients per 1 ml of liquid ?


Not exactly. 10% enrofloxacin has 100 _grams_ of the active ingredient in every 100 ml of liquid. You don't need to get hung up on the percent, though. What's important to know is that the "strength" of the medicine is 100 mg per every 1 ml of liquid or 100 mg/ml.


Here's what I do to dilute meds to make them more palatable;

1ml liquid medicine + 1ml water + 2ml flavored syrup (I use Torani) = 4 ml total

Then I'll check the [RatGuide] to find out how strong the dose should be and I'll use an [online dosing calculator] to figure out how much to give my rat. 

The calculator asks a series of questions;
Patient's weight?: 0.726 kg
Dosage?: 15 mg/kg
Liquid Formulation - Medication amount?: 100 mg
Liquid Formulation - Per volume?: 4 ml
Preferred units for final dosage?: (mg) daily
Preferred units for liquid dosage?: (ml) daily

...then it tells you how much of the diluted liquid medicine to give your rat

Results, Liquid Dose: 0.436 ml


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## CorbinDallasMyMan (Feb 24, 2017)

Mkd said:


> I also had 100mg per ml of injectable batril and was using .05 ml for treatment. Does that sound right? What would that work out to with 10% enroflaxin ?


100 mg/ml means the same thing as 10%. It's the same strength.

0.05 ml of 100 mg/ml Baytril is a fairly weak dose. If that's what you were doing before and it fixed your problem, you could do that again if you want.


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## Mkd (Mar 24, 2021)

Mkd said:


> This is confusing. I did miss a decimal point and Debbie D formula does work out to .16 ml of 10% enroflaxin. The other guy said though it had to be diluted cause of the strength and that really worried me. So its not the strength of the 10% that has to be diluted but because of the caustic nature . Right? Also if 10% enroflaxin has 10% of active ingredients per 100 ml of liquid is that is that the same as saying 10% enroflaxin has .1 % of active ingredients per 1 ml of liquid ?


I messed up again . 10 grams of active ingredients per 100 ml of liquid is the same as .1 gram of active ingredients per 1 ml of liquid ?


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## CorbinDallasMyMan (Feb 24, 2017)

Mkd said:


> 10 grams of active ingredients per 100 ml of liquid is the same as .1 gram of active ingredients per 1 ml of liquid ?


Exactly! 
0.1 grams = 100 mg


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## Mkd (Mar 24, 2021)

CorbinDallasMyMan said:


> Exactly!
> 0.1 grams = 100 mg


Well I really appreciate all your help and I don't know where your at but I'm in the eastern time zone and its late and I'll try to digest this, and again I can't thank you enough for all your help. Thank you again and my rat thanks you,( I call them a star, rats spelled backwards.) They are a misunderstood creature to a lot of people but in reality they are great companions and the worlds greatest survivors.


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## Mkd (Mar 24, 2021)

Mkd said:


> Well I really appreciate all your help and I don't know where your at but I'm in the eastern time zone and its late and I'll try to digest this, and again I can't thank you enough for all your help. Thank you again and my rat thanks you,( I call them a star, rats spelled backwards.) They are a misunderstood creature to a lot of people but in reality they are great companions and the worlds greatest survivors.


Thank you again


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