# lump!!!



## hjkaga (Dec 27, 2006)

I noticed today that Hershey has developed a lump right behind one of her front legs. What could it be? I can't afford to take her to the vet right now, so is there anything I can do in the mean time????


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

keep an eye on it and monitor its growth and her energy levels. most lumps are benign but they can grow to a size that could cause problems. you should discuss with your vet your best option when dealing with them. soe don't grow too large and though the rat won't be winning any beauty contests but will be fine. having said that though that is not always the case, it is possible that she could have cancer. if that's the case you'll notice soon enough if she goes off food or starts to lose weight even though she's eating lots. unfortunately there isn't a lot taht can be done for the malignant tumors as often by the time they're noticable the cancer has spread to other parts of the body. some steriods can be used but i just wait for the rat to tell me on her own when she's ready to go and don't normally bother with the steroids. however it COULD be a simple abcess which antibiotics and perhaps draining will fix right up. without seeing it myself i can't tell you which it is. all you can do in the meantime is watch and wait. i hope all goes well.


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## hjkaga (Dec 27, 2006)

here are some pics


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

cute markings. 

yeah, that looks more like a tumor to me. an abcess would be near or on a wound and would at least be red and sore. the best thing for now wold be to keep an eye on it and document its growth so you can get an idea for its rate of growth. watch her weight and activity levels, if they go down it could be a sign that the tumor is malignant. at that size it shouldn't bother her too much for mobility. can you touch it? what does it feel like? are there any hard bumps inside that you can feel? when you can take her in to see a vet to get the vet's opinion on if it needs to be removed or not. how old is the rat? she may need surgery and the older the rat the less well they cope. though with a good vet and previous good health most rats do just fine. my 27 month old rat, Spider is going in next thursday to have hers removed. the problem with these types of tumors though, even if they're benign is hat if they don't get every little peice the tumor will come back. so its easier if the tumor is free floating and on the smaller side (about the size it is now would be good) then when it gets bigger. but the larger ones can be removed as well. so long as the tumor doesn't get bigger then the rat cause then the blood loss from the surgery alone would more likely kill the rat. but any, for now, monitor it and document it. when you can ge the vet to look at it and your records and go from there. i hope everything turns out well.


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## hjkaga (Dec 27, 2006)

thanks. yea, i can touch it, it doesnt bother her at all. its firm but not rock hard and not squishy either. she is only about a year old. thanks.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

its the same as my daisy had you have discribed it the same way as i did down the phone to the vets so it seems to me like its a tumor, they can operater on it although its (as all operations on small animals) not 100% they will pull thu, and also the tumor might come bk, but dont just take my word plz talk to you vet and ask about options, i hope it all works out for you! keep me updated


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Yeah that is a standard place for a mammary tumour. She's a bit young to be getting one but I have noticed this more and more. If the lump showed up slowly then it would be a tumour most likely. If it showed up very suddenly its more likely to be an abscess which can be treated, even at home or with the vet. With mammary tumours you have a couple of choices.
1) Have the tumour removed surgically with a proper rat vet who is accomplished at this surgery. It can cost quite a bit but if you have the money, its very worth it as it can really extend the life of your rat. The tumour may return but it would have to start again from "scratch" so that all that time it grows you have given to her. The only real issues with this are if your rat has chronic respiratory problems and then cannot be put under for the surgery. If you really wanted to, you could have your ratgirl spayed at the same time, and this would really reduce any chances of more tumours.
2) Leave her be. The tumour will continue to grow. Some grow slowly and some grow quite quickly. It shouldn't affect her life until it starts to impede her mobility, or if the tumour gets big enough to rub on the ground, or if it gets big enough that it starts to steal the nutrients and blood supply from her body. Her life could be as short as 2 months or a lot longer, depending on speed of growth.

I do advise one thing, make sure you have the money to have her humanely put to sleep if she needs the help. This means gas first til they are unconscious, then the fatal injection to the heart.

Good luck whatever your decision.


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## hjkaga (Dec 27, 2006)

i really can't afford surgery, so I am just going to let her go and give her the best life I can while she still has time. I will make sure to save up the money to have her humanely euthinized when the time comes. Thanks.


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## nerdchick (Feb 26, 2007)

Wait, hjkaga, you are willing to save up money for euthanization, but not a surgery? Also, have you even talked to your vet about a payment plan? Many vets will work with your financial needs and set up a monthly payment plan. If possible, do a tumor removal and spay and then pay for it monthly. Saving up for a euthanization, but not a surgery is like saving up for a casket, rather than chemo.

-Caty


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

I agree whole-heartedly with Nerdchick. Save up for the surgery, not the euthanization. What she has is basically the quintessential mammary tumor, it looks like, which is why I ALWAYS spay my females. They are so prone to mammary tumors.

Not to be harsh, but you took Hershey in, so you have to take care of her. Any vet care your animals need, you have to get for them. Like Nerd said, a lot of vets will work with you on a payment plan. One of my favorite quotes is, "If you can't afford the vet, you shouldn't own the pet."


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## hjkaga (Dec 27, 2006)

surgery has to cost way more than euthanazia......also, the tumor seems to be growing fast....so she doesn't have long to live anyway. I am not getting her spayed either. I have no reason to need her spayed. I am not breeding her but I do not plan on housing her with males either. So that's surgery she doesn't need. My main thing is I don't want to put her through surgery. I think it is very stressful and something a poor little rat just doesn't need to go through. I have been through multiple surgeries myself, so I know what it is like.

the vets near me dont like to do payment plans. I live in the country, not a city where they work with you more on stuff like this. their is only 2 vets near me that will even handle rats, although I'm not too sure on how much they really know and how experienced they are with them.

I can't afford medical care for myself either, if I didn't have insurance I wouldn't see a doctor either, so I am not being mean, its just a fact.

I am taking care of her the best I can. Like I said, I think surgery is too stressful for a rat and don't want to put her though it. It is my decision. I undertand others may not agree with me, but that is how I feel.

Oh yea, Night, I don't really care what you think as I already know you just like to start fights anyway. I don't like the attitude you have had towards people here and therefore I do not respect your opinion anyway.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Actually, I'm not just "starting a fight." You can't care for your animals - rats NEED medical attention just like any other animal! They need regular wellness exams just like any dog or cat, and if you don't want to have to deal with tumors, definitely don't get any other females. Male rats are less likely to develop them, where as they are very prominent in unaltered females. Spaying greatly helps female rat's health, and it's a shame you won't even consider doing it, regardless of the fact that your poor girl has to suffer through having a tumor when it should be removed by now.

Since you keep saying that surgery is too stressful on a rat, how many rats have you had go through surgery, and what kind of surgeries were they?


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## Darksong17 (Feb 11, 2007)

I have to agree with Night, expect to lose many rats fairly young if you are going to put girls down the moment a tumor pops up. Tumors are extremely common in unspayed females and most people opt to have them removed so that the rat may live and enjoy life a bit longer. Their lifespans are short enough, why not let them hang around a bit longer? I've seen many people who have had tumor removals done and the rats seem to bounce back VERY quickly from the surgery most of the time.


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## hjkaga (Dec 27, 2006)

I have never had a rat through surgery, as I said I don't want to put one through that. My dog gets his shots yearly and that is it. Other than that he doesn't see a vet unless it's an emergency. I never said I was just going to put her down cause she had a tumor either. I am planning on letting her enjoy the rest of her life and when the quality of life is no longer good then I will have her put down. I don't plan on killing her just because she is sick.

Yes, I have heard of rats bouncing right back after surgery, but I have also heard of them not making it through either.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

That logic is faulty in my mind. I've heard of people dying in car crashes, but that certainly doesn't make me refuse to drive. With basically any scenario you come up with in life, there's a possible good and a possible bad coming out of it - surgery is no different.

My rats, both past and present, have had numerous surgeries - namely neuters, spays, and tumor removals. All have gone swimmingly and I've never had an issue. The rats come home and are just as they were before the surgery; happy and bouncing around.

How old is your girl?


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

i had my girl put down when she had a tumour as one poped up and we booked her for surgery the next day but the next day she had 2 more and the vet said it was to much stress for a small animal plus there was a large chance of the tumours coming back and it was more humain to have her put to sleep so she didnt suffer any more it was a hard desicion. i tottally agree with hjkaga.


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## hjkaga (Dec 27, 2006)

hershey is somewhere around 1 1/2 to 2 yrs old.

thank you fallinstar for understanding and agreeing. Surgery is not always the best option and it certainly isnt the only option.

I don't have surgery unless it is absolutely the only way to go. Their are other ways to deal with sicknesses, including just letting them be....sometimes the surgery is more risk then it is worth.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Surgery isn't always the best options, correct. The way to figure that out, though, is to go to an exotics specialist.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

daisy was one month off being 2 it was a very hard discion to make it still upsets me now, i just have to remind my self it was for the best i still miss her every day. people are tellin me to get my rats spayed and im worryed that they wont pull thu but they seem to think they will but in my experence most rats dont pull thu so i think its not worth the risk! i love my rats and dont want to put them thu any unnessasery pain! which ever option you chocie i will support you, also as you rat is around 2 years old they are known not to live much longer than 2 to 2 1/2 years and its just upsetting to know you are causing unnessesery pain!


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

It's not unnecessary, though, fallinstar. In my opinion, it's completely necessary. I would rather my girls go through ONE surgery during their lifetime (the spay), than go through numerous tumor removals OR have to endure being uncomfortable and in pain for however long they choose to stay alive because I refuse to take them to get the tumors removed. My girls have always come home bouncy and happy after their spays, not to mention practically pain free because of the Buprenex shot and Metacam.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

yes but at the age hershey is hershey wont live much longer its morbid but true! and its more humain to just have hershey put to sleep end of the day its the owners choice


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

I must agree with Night, I'd rather pay for just one simple surgery at a young age when they're most likely to forget it in a few weeks than pay for numerous surgeries to attempt a tumor removal.

While there is a risk, I(personally) think it's a risk worth taking. If the fates had it be that the rat not live, then at least I did the right thing(in my mind) by trying to fix things in the beggning.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

One of my girls, Hazel, just had a tumor removed at the age of one and a half (could be closer to two years old), and I don't regret the decision at all. I love my animals and will do absolutely everything for them until the very end, I don't take their age into consideration unless it effects it badly (IE - I would have a spunky, healthy 2 year old rat undergo surgery, but I wouldn't put an ailing 1 year old under the knife).

Hazel had the (benign) tumor removed on the 1st of this month, and she made a full recovery and is back to her old self


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

as i said it is the owners own choice and i choce to let daisy pass away peacefully rarther than put her thu all the stress of an operation


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

There really is no stress involved in surgery unless the rat is sick or extremely old, honestly. All the rats I've seen or have had come home from surgery don't even realize what has happened to them - all they want to do is play.

But, you're right... in the end, it's the owner's decision. Personally, in my opinion though, I think she's making the wrong one.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

thank you


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

OK here's my take on things.
I have, as some of you may know, a lot of rescue rats here. I have been thru many many surgeries over the last year and a bit. I have lost 1 rat, _just one_, and he died of a hidden respiratory problem that we didn't know about. He was also over 2 years old. As long as you have a good vet, antibiotics and pain meds for 1-3 days then its really not that hard on them. They heal and bounce back eerily fast. Its almost unnatural..hehe :lol: 

Sebastian - neuter at 22 mo, cancerous face tumour removal at 25 mo (lived til 38 mo)
Dominic - neuter - 26 mo (aggression - died 4 days later)
Selene - tumour removal - 21 mo (still alive)
Rafiki - tumour removal - 14 mo (died of chronic respiratory at 22 mo)
Ceres - tumour removal 16 mo (died of PT at 18 mo)
Brie, Valora, Vesta, Kamali, Kyrie - spays at 5-7 mo...
Aura (my first e-spay) at 5 mo
Prima, Terra, Lucine and Zuri - spays at 5 mo plus toe amputation for Zuri
Dilbert - neuter at 3 mo
Beni, Tucker, Bear and Ortiz - neuters at 4 mo
Bronwen and Rennie - spays at 4-5 mo (both were ooops moms)
Hestia - tail amputation
Brie - lancing of throat abscesses

I myself was very worried about spaying myself, but I realized that putting a young healthy rat thru surgery is much better than putting a compromised older rat thru it later on.  Tumour removals seem to be harder for them to bounce back from but spays (which they say reduces the possibility of mammary tumours and pituitary tumours to about 5% from about 90%) they recover beautifully from.

For all curious here is Brie and Kyrie as soon as I brought them home.








And here is Brie's spay incision










Just know that surgery can really prolong your beloved rats life and should be carefully considered. Get the facts before deciding this. A tumour on a 14 month rat could end their life by 16 months...or you could have them up to 24 months happily. If a tumour regrows it still has to take all that time to grow again so you have given them months and months of life.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

with my rat both her tumors poped up over night and from what ive hurd other than on this forum operations are high risk but with what ive hurd here i am slowly changing my mind


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

If they 'popped up overnight' and are of fair size(like an almond or so) that just might be an abcess that is easily treated at home.

Acid had one on her neck, and I realized it was an abcess only after it broke open end started to reek something awful!


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

no these were def tumors i asked friends and 2 vets and they all said tumours so there was no doubt about it they seemed to pop up over night but my mom said they were just very small before and then got much bigger over night as i was away for a week and when i came back they were huge!


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Some abscesses are treatable at home, yes, but you should still go to the vet to get antibiotics (in order to keep any infection from coming back).  And sometimes tumors do occur over night. Rats, and all other small animals, have such short lifespans that basically everything is on fast forward. Things develop very, VERY quickly.


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

I must be lucky...Acid also fell to a small case of bumblefoot and I treated that at home too(with TONS of research in medical articles) and she never showed signs of re-occuring infections from the bumblefoot nor the abcess.

I'm sure my luck will run out at some point, but I'm in the process of registering my babies at a nearby exotics vet clinic. x3

Trying to schedule a general health checkup sometime soon.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

she was in alot of pain i still cry when i think about when we took her to the vets she didnt want to leave me and tryed to get away from the vet in all the time i had her she never bit any1 ever not even playfully but she tryed to bite the vet even tho she had been before


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Vixie, getting regular wellness checks for your rats is a fantastic idea! All of my rats go in to see the vet every 2-3 months (sometimes more often for my oldies, or my rats with recurring respiratory issues).


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

how do you get your rats to take medicin ? we had a siringe and that was a last resoce, we tryed everything and they wouldnt take it it took 3 of us to med one rat in the end for the course of the meds we had to take the vets every day 2 times a day and they had it injected!


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Well, some rats will take the medication if it's in food, like for instance if you mixed it with a bit of baby food or something else creamy. If that doesn't work, you can ask your vet if they can flavor the medication (this is possible with some medications, and not with others). Personally, all of my rats know about me putting meds in baby food/bread and will outsmart me and not eat it  So, I just syringe it into their mouth. If they don't swallow it and just drool it out, I wipe it on their cheeks/neck so that they have to clean it off themselves. 

As an extreme last resort, I give the rats their medication sub-q (subcutaneously), which means injected under the skin. This method isn't for newbies, and vets don't hand out needled syringes unless they trust you and know you are capable of injections. I've done all methods, and honestly, I prefer injecting the medication. It's the only way to make sure the rat gets *ALL *of the medicine. But, I never do that because I feel bad for the ratties, so I just syringe it into their mouths.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

thats a good idea putting around their face mine would bite the suringe and make terrible squeeking noises touch wood they wont need it again


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Yeah, some rats are whiners  I have a couple that like to wiggle around, push the syringe away, and scream. But I know they're just being dramatic and giggle at their antics.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

talk about dramatic you only have too look at roobs in the wrong way or stroke him wen hes in a mood and it sounds like im trying to kill him the lil bugger


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

Hah! Odin is a drama llama as well <3 Just pick him up gently like your suppose to and he screams like a banshee. He HATES forced socialisation time >< But he's getting a tad better ^^;;


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

so i just had a rather largish lump removed from my 27 month old rat. she came home groggy and sooky yesterday evening and is bouncing and climbing the walls of her cage today. she seems to have more energy then she did before the operation and seems much happier. the scar is quite large and there is some minor seepage. i'm keeping that wiped up as best i can with a warm washcloth and she seems to it when i clean it gently that way and starts bruxxing. the odd thing was that the majority of the lump was really an abcess. the vet said it was caused by the abnormal tissue (tumor) but the treatment would have been pretty much the same had she known the extent of exactly what was what anyway. it was pricy, cost me $171 CDN but i'm very happy i did it. the vet and i talked about another rat i have in my care (fostering until her owner can get a bigger cage) about her lumps but we're fairly sure that operation wouldn't be much help. there are two masses and they seem to have a line of tissue attaching right to side. given also the speed of the spread its likely its spread to the other mammorary tissue as well and any operation would only be a small stopper as other tumors were likely to develop. we discussed spaying at the same time to perhaps reduce the risk of more tumors or at least their growth speed but to add that to the lump removals adds greatly to her risk of not making it through the operation. also she has already gone through puberty so though it will reduce her risk of further growths it won't be as significant if she was done eariler and you can not be sure exactly its benifits at this time. we discussed perhaps doing multiple surgeries but the time inbetween will give he limps more time to grow and make each later surgery even more risky, and multiple surgies are going to be tough on her. though all this discussion is probably useless anyway as violet's owner is unlikely to pay so much for an operation in the first place, even if the tumor was one like spider's and about the best type to get rid of. she jsut doesn't have the money. in any case i just wanted to share that my spider baby (the rat in my sig) is doing wonderful after her tumor removal and vent a bit of my worries about violet. thanks for listening.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

The only surgery I've ever regreted was on my 18 month old heart rat Lestat. He had a tumor in his colon that had grown to the point where it could be seen protruding from his anus. The vet told me it there was a 50/50 chance of sucess, but I decided to go ahead anyway. It couldn't be totally removed, and he died the next day. 

That said, I had his brother neutered at 19 months (so he could get his girlfriends) and he lived for another 6 wonderful months until meds could no longer control his respritory issues. 

Hopefully my girls will be tumor free, but when the time comes, if they're still happy and healthy they WILL get the surgery


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

I had no idea tumors were so common. I mean I read it but to hear first hand accounts o_o


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