# ARGH! Does anyone know of a breeder in Indiana?



## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

I've been looking all over the web for weeks, trying to find a breeder in Indiana. Main reason: I want to finally find a Siamese! The lady I got Scout/Panda/Napoleon from doesn't breed Siamese, and I can't get a hold of the rattery she referred me to (Bella Karm.) I can't find any breeders in Indiana that actually sell rats. They're all either shut down or feeder breeders.

*sulk*

So, I think at least two people here are from Indy, and maybe you know of some elusive breeder that is hiding out somewhere? I'm tempted to special order a rat from a pet store in Indianapolis, but it would cost me $20 to place the order, plus the price of the rattie, and it would take up to 8 weeks to get him/her, and even then they can't promise I'll get what I'm looking for.

Any help? Like I said, I've tried every online source I can find, so I'm grabbing at straws.

(If this is in the wrong section, I apologize - hopefully a mod can move it.)


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

I know a lot of rescues in Indy, but no breeders. Hmmm. Good luck!


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

You can name the rescues if you'd like, I've tried Petfinder but they don't list many ratties in Indiana. The shelters I've called don't even take in anything that's not a dog or cat, but maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places.


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## Darksong17 (Feb 11, 2007)

Here are some breeder and rescue lists, you can see if anyone is near you:

http://www.petinfopackets.com/rats/ratinfopacket.html#breeders
http://www.petinfopackets.com/rats/ratinfopacket.html#rescues


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

I'm a volunteer with EARPS of Indy. We already have a big problem with unwanted rats in Indiana, so I encourage you to adopt instead of buy. Who cares what they look like?


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## AlexzRose (Aug 15, 2007)

I'm sure she won't love the rat ONLY because it's siamese. Sometimes there's just a certain type that you want. Like I am going to a breeder to get a blue dumbo, that doesn't mean I don't love my guys who aren't blue dumbos. It's just a color/type that i really want.

Anyways, I way in Cali so I'm no help in your breeder search. Good luck!


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

JulesMichy - I've checked the rats on Petfinder for EARPS, and there is only 1 single male rat that is up for adoption (I can't take more than one, as I would need to buy another large cage, which is not something I am willing to do right now since I live in a small apartment.) This rat is named Bradley, and his profile mentions he does not get along with other males, which spells trouble, because I already have three boys.

If there are other rats you have that are not on the Petfinder page, feel free to send me links! The EARPS I was looking at was located in Brownburg, by the way - I don't know if there is more than one location.

edit - I do care what they look like, and I am not going to get another rattie unless it is a Siamese. Call me shallow, but I only have room for one more rattie, and I want it to be something special. I don't want to grab the first rat I see, just to fill up my "last rat" slot. My very first rat was a Siamese, and I have been searching since she died for another Siamese. I wish she were still here.


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

I've also had asked people from EARPS to meet half way with HVRR before since one of their volunteers travels there and back quite often. So that's another option for you to look to, even if it is in Michigan. 

My aunt has a siamese but she got it from my dad who raises snakes so got it from a feeder breeder ): I don't really like feeder breeders but he has a wonderful personality as did my first rat that I rescued from my dad who came from the same lady. Of course that first rat died at 8 months a horrible death from a internal tumor.

If you want a rat like that so bad you can wait for it. The right one will come to you eventually if you keep looking.


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

The ones on the Petfinder page are just the ones currently in foster. You could try emailing Sarah and see who's on the waiting list.

And yes, I think it's shallow to buy any animal from a breeder just for looks. Health, temperament, those are valid reasons to find a good breeder. Aesthetics? No, I'm sorry. That's just cold and selfish.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

its not that big a deal. i use the aesthetics to keep me from getting every rat out there. if i put stipulations on the rat that i will get then its harder to find it and so not as many come home. will power also works here of course, but its a trick i use to bolster that will power. after all i don't NEED more rats, i have some already and so does she. not everytime a person uses aesthetics as factor does it need to be swallow or selfish. 

and obvisously she considers the temperment and health a valid concern too otherwise she would just shop the pet stores for a siamese instead of going to the trouble of a breeder. i'm not sure what her area is like but mine is filled with siamese in the pet shops now. the aesthetics are important to her, and there's nothing wrong about that. 

as for breeders and rescues in your area, i really can't help you. i'm way in canada and here, we don't have many reputable breeders at all. i hope you'll able to find one though it may take some time and a lot of patience.


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## AlexzRose (Aug 15, 2007)

I just did a quick net search and I couldn't find anything either. 

Is there any way that your regular breeder could call the rattery that she referred you to?

It's definitely not cold or selfish to have favorite type of rat and to be solely interested in that type. It's like having a size preference in dogs. Some people like big, short haired dogs and some like small furry dogs. You wouldn't be calling them cruel or selfish for that preference would you?


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

You can think that there's nothing wrong with choosing a pet solely based on looks if you want. And I will think as I like.



> and obvisously she considers the temperment and health a valid concern too otherwise she would just shop the pet stores for a siamese instead of going to the trouble of a breeder. i'm not sure what her area is like but mine is filled with siamese in the pet shops now.


No, because she said she was going to reserve one from her pet shop if she has to. So obviously she doesn't care about health and temperament. She just wants a Siamese no matter what, even if it means supporting rat mills.



> It's definitely not cold or selfish to have favorite type of rat and to be solely interested in that type. It's like having a size preference in dogs. Some people like big, short haired dogs and some like small furry dogs. You wouldn't be calling them cruel or selfish for that preference would you?


Comparing apples and oranges. As long as they went to a rescue and picked out a small dog (and there are rescues for every breed on the planet), then I'd be fine with that. In this case, she's turning down rescue rats purely based on their looks. 

I've got nothing against good breeders, or people who buy from good breeders for what I consider to be the right reasons (health and temperament). The minute I see: "i wanna blu rattie cuz there SOOOO KAWAII!" it makes me want to smack the person for being so, yes, shallow.


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## AlexzRose (Aug 15, 2007)

lol

We definitely have different point of views. 

I'm sure if you guys had a rescue Siamese she would look into adopting. She wants a specific kind of rat and unless you have one in your rescue don't judge her for going elsewhere.


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

Many rescues don't list all their rats on Petfinder. I don't... Ones in QT, or that are under vet care are generally not listed. Sometimes, highly deserable rats aren't (you can't imagine the email floods when hairless/double rexes are listed), or litters aren't always listed, as they often are adopted before I even get them on Petfinder, though forums and whatnot. I get emails all the time, asking if we have this color, or dumbos, etc.

I know for sure that EARPS has MANY rats, and not all are on Petfinder. There are also many other rescues in Indy, rat and small animal. There's a chance they have a Siamese. At least shoot them an email to ask (mass mail if you want to save time). Then you can get the marking you want, and save a rat. If not, at least you tried. Some may offer to let you know when a Siamese comes in.

Happy Endings

EARPS is VERY awesome. Email Sarah, she's great: [email protected]

Heartland Small Animal Rescue sometimes has rats, we've worked with them.

There's also HVRR in MI, who did have 2 Siamese, I'm not sure if they've been adopted. She'll work out transport when possible.

If you're willing to wait, and since you asked about breeders, you must (since most have waiting lists and only breed x-amount of times a year).  You could be "on the list" at rescues, and continue searching for breeders. Heck, I'll put you on our "want list", if you ask.

JM is right - there's a LOT of unwanted rats in Indy, hence why we and other rescues like HVRR take in "overflow" a lot.


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

Kimmie - Aren't Happy Endings and EARPS the same thing? Every time I click to look at the adoptable animals, it takes me to the same place. I'll e-mail both places, but I want to be sure I'm not getting them mixed up. I'll also try HVRR and any other shelters I can find. Thanks for the links.

Jules - I said I was "TEMPTED to order one from a pet store." You know, like something you think about doing but you end up not doing? If I wanted to go that route, I would have already done so. Instead, I chose to post here so I could find other options. I'm sure you've been TEMPTED to buy ratties from a pet store when you know they're going to end up as snake food, or TEMPTED to break quarantine just so your ratties can play together.

I have no problem with taking a rescue rat, but don't expect me to "settle" just because I have the space to house one more rat. I don't NEED another rat, as Twitch mentioned, so I am only going to get another if it is something I really want to do.


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

Happy Endings is a division of EARPS. You're right though, hrm. I'm not sure why they share the same Petfinder. Might just email Sarah at EARPS and ask if Happy Endings has any as well.


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

The two merged awhile ago. I think Happy Endings is primarily the sanctuary for unadoptable rats nowadays. 



BlueSkyy said:


> I'm sure you've been TEMPTED to buy ratties from a pet store when you know they're going to end up as snake food


Actually, no, I haven't ever been tempted to buy from a pet store.



> I have no problem with taking a rescue rat, but don't expect me to *"settle"* just because I have the space to house one more rat.


Geez. :roll: No, that's not cold and selfish at all. Sorry, but when you've worked in shelters and rescue as long as I have, people like you make people like me homocidal. "Settle" indeed.


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

It makes you homicidal that people have preferences for the type of pets they decide to buy?


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## Darksong17 (Feb 11, 2007)

JulesMichy said:


> The two merged awhile ago. I think Happy Endings is primarily the sanctuary for unadoptable rats nowadays.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've kept quiet until now but think what you're spouting is pretty over the top. You're making rescues look bad with your extremist attitude.


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

Darksong17 said:


> I've kept quiet until now but think what you're spouting is pretty over the top. You're making rescues look bad with your extremist attitude.


Anyone who thinks I speak for all rescues needs to have their IQ tested. These are my personal views, and in no way reflect on rescues as a whole.


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

BlueSkyy said:


> It makes you homicidal that people have preferences for the type of pets they decide to buy?


No, it makes me homicidal when people allow those preferences to negate other factors like the health, temperament, and well-being of the animal. When they're willing to go to a backyard breeder or pet store just to get the look that they want.


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## Mana (Apr 22, 2007)

She said she's looking for a breeder, and said in her first post that she's asking here because all she could find were backyard/feeder breeders. That doesn't sound like ALL she cares about is how the rat looks. If that were the case, she could have gotten one from a pet store, or a feeder breeder.

Edit: I don't run a rescue and don't have any experience with fostering or anything, but I would imagine that the vast majority of rescue rats are from pet stores, or the resulting offspring of pet store rats. I know rescue rats desperately need homes, but if you are looking for health and temperament specifically (all looks aside), wouldn't a reputable breeder be your first choice anyway?


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

Mana -

What I'm taking primary issue with was her original post, where she said she was tempted to buy from a pet store BUT it would cost too much, take too long, etc. Not that it wasn't the right thing to do because pet stores get their rats from feeder breeders. So I'm led to believe that if a Siamese had been available in the store, for a reasonable price, she would have snapped it up.

And you're absolutely right, rescue isn't the place to look if you want good lines. As I said before, I have no problem with buying from a good breeder for the right reasons. I haven't seen anything from the OP that leads me to believe that she's concerned with much more than looks.


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

JulesMichy said:


> And you're absolutely right, rescue isn't the place to look if you want good lines. As I said before, I have no problem with buying from a good breeder for the right reasons. I haven't seen anything from the OP that leads me to believe that she's concerned with much more than looks.


I believe I mentioned in my first post that the pet stores can't guarantee you'll get what you want. Which is, in my case, a healthy, friendly, Siamese rat. Why would I want to pay $30 for a pet-store Siamese that would bite me and die after 9 months from some unknown genetic disease? Honestly, if I didn't care about health and temperament, I would have gotten my first three boys from a pet store, but I went to a breeder so I could get healthy, friendly rats. As you can see, they are far from being "perfectly marked" but I love them no matter what. Now, I am just trying to find a rat with the markings I am looking for, and apparently that is wrong?

Why do you suppose the title of this post was asking for breeders, and not Siamese rats in general?

(I don't know if this will clarify anything, but the store I was in contact with is family owned, and is not a large chain store like PetsMart. I was hoping they might have had some kind of connection with a breeder somewhere I didn't know about. They only ever have a few rats in their store at any one time, not gobs and gobs like you see crammed in feeder bins.The only way I found the breeder where I got Scout/Panda/Napoleon was from a different pet store who gave me her contact info. Also, my first Siamese was a pet store rat, so don't think I'm dissing all pet store rats - There are many that are very healthy and friendly despite having the deck stacked against them.)

((Mods - you can lock this post if you'd like since it's gotten horribly off-topic. If anyone knows of a breeder, they can PM me the information.))


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

Hi Blue...totally can relate to you, my first rat was a big fat siamese. Here is the only info I could find. Don't even know if they are still running these ratteries, but worth a try. I am including one from KY because I live in southern Indiana and sometimes go there if I can't find what I'm looking for in Indiana.

_Indiana
Marshall 
Melonie Buchanan, Ratkateers Rodentry 

Phone: 765-498-1555
Email: [email protected]

Kentucky
Covington 
Ed Watkins, King Rat's Rodentry, Rodent Rescue and Shelter 

Phone: (859)292-0372
Email: [email protected]_


LoL, if you notice, the Kentucky one is also a rescue and shelter, so that ought to make everyone happy. :wink:


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## AlexzRose (Aug 15, 2007)

Darksong17 said:


> I've kept quiet until now but think what you're spouting is pretty over the top. You're making rescues look bad with your extremist attitude.


For sure...


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## madeittothemoon (Nov 1, 2007)

I know of some breeders in the Chicago area that do rescues (and Purdue isn't too far of a drive from Chicago).

http://www.chicagoratpack.110mb.com/index.html

A quick search on google would probably get you a few more.

And one last thing to everyone- wanting a specific type of rat really is like wanting a specific breed of dog. To some people it matters, and to some it doesn't. And I don't blame BlueSkyy for wanting a specific type of rat- I know that I have limited myself to types just because I don't have the space for any more rats, and I know that if I didn't limit myself like this, I would want to bring just about every rat I come across home.


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

madeittothemoon said:


> And one last thing to everyone- wanting a specific type of rat really is like wanting a specific breed of dog. To some people it matters, and to some it doesn't. And I don't blame BlueSkyy for wanting a specific type of rat


I agree. One of the best dogs in the whole world (biased opinion - mine :wink: ) was a mutt from the animal shelter. After he passed away, I was given a purebred dog...and I can see why people would want a specific breed of dog, too. Now I think he's the best dog in the world.  I imagine rats are about the same, you're going to fall in love with either. And folks definitely have a right to choose a rat from a breeder. If not, why would they exist in the first place?


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

ledzepgirl16 said:


> madeittothemoon said:
> 
> 
> > And one last thing to everyone- wanting a specific type of rat really is like wanting a specific breed of dog. To some people it matters, and to some it doesn't. And I don't blame BlueSkyy for wanting a specific type of rat
> ...


Once again missing my entire point altogether. Once more, from the top:

1. There are rescues for every breed of dog imaginable. You can get a purebreed without going to a breeder. Or, if health and temperament are important to you as well, you can go to a good breeder.

2. Rats personalities don't vary with their markings like different breeds of dogs do.

3. I don't care if she wants a Himi, or a Siamese, or whatever. I think it's stupid to care what a rat looks like when considering adoption, but that's my own opinion. It was when she said that she was considering getitng one from a pet store that I got miffed. If she'd made clear from the beginning that she wanted a healthy Siamese with a great personality, I would have directed her to Melina up in Chicago in a heartbeat. To me, her post came off like: "I want a Siamese no matter what, and I'll take it wherever I can get it."


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

Speaking of Melina, I can't believe I didn't think of her.

http://www.dazzlemerats.com/

If she doesn't have any Siamese, she may know who would.


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

I found a lady in MI who has 4 Siamese/Himi boys for sale/adoption. 2 are rescues (fostering) and 2 are from a breeder. Problem is, it's about 7 hours away.  I'm going to work with this lady and try my best to figure out a way we can meet up, if things with her don't work out I will continue my search in the Chicago area (just started looking at ratteries in IL today.)


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

Good luck!


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## Brad (Nov 6, 2007)

I have a problematic lone siemese that needs a great home. She loves her own cage?


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

where are you located? feel free to send me a PM if you'd like to keep it "private." i am still looking for other Siamese since this rescue is located so far away, but since i have 3 intact males adopting a female would be difficult since i only have the one cage...anyways, feel free to post or PM the details and maybe we can work something out


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## deercreekrattery (May 14, 2007)

I'd avoid Melanie of Ratkateers. She's a USDA mill breeder of MANY exotic animals and uses alot of her rats as feeders. Dealt with her many, many years ago and was scared. Bella Karm isn't breeding anymore, hasn't bred for over 5 years. I don't know how far you are from Fremont Ohio, but Tony of Raffin House sometimes has Siamese available. He's got a great Burmese line that produces Siamese. His info is www.raffinhouse.com I highly recommend his rats.


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