# Same-sex breeding



## Blackfire (Apr 15, 2007)

Perhaps it is completely natural, but my two rats Darla and Annika are both female, but in the last 2 days Annika has been biting Darla's scruff and trying to mount her. They then get into a heated battle and Darla flips her over and holds her down in typical dominance routine. Otherwise, they are perfectly happy and get along wonderfully together. This has happened once or twice previously, but I've never actually observed the attempt at mating before this. Should l I be concerned, or is this just because they are not spayed and coming into heat? Thanks for any help!

A. D. Blackfire


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Sounds like your girls are in heat  Sometimes females, when in heat (which happens every 5 days, mind you) will mount each other.


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

:lol: They're not attempting to mate. It sounds like Darla is in heat and Annika is trying to assert her dominance over Darla. And of course, Darla isn't having it.

Whenever one of my girls is in heat, the others go nuts pinning her, power grooming her, mounting her... My boyfriend constantly hears me shouting: "Knock it off!"


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## Blackfire (Apr 15, 2007)

Thanks Night. Just wanted to make sure no one was ill, or needing to be separated. I had gerbils kill each other once after acting oddly, and it's something I don't want to repeat. I'm way too attached to Darla, she's too good a pet to see her get hurt. Annika is very very cage shy (damned petstores, lol) so she is sometimes just not right in her little rat head. It's just such a slow process since she won't be held. She's come a long way since September though. Again, thanks.


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## Blackfire (Apr 15, 2007)

I'll keep an eye on them still Jules. I knew that title would get attention (I was _pretty_ certain they weren't actually mating), and with small animals, quicker is always better. :wink: If it gets out of hand, I have a 2nd cage I could move them apart on cycles where they get out of hand. 95% of the time they don't get rambunctious though.


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## OnlyOno (Apr 4, 2007)

actually, almost all animals in the wild will have same-sex mating romps. cattle do it when they're in estrus (the cow in heat will be the one mounting), and bonobos (lol, LOOK THEM UP, they're the most hilarious monkeys in the world) will go far enough to have gay relationships and orgies with eachother. they're closest to humans, doing pretty much everything that humans will do to eachother, only they're a lot hairier, lol. as for your ratties, i wouldn't be worried about it. gerbils and hamsters are desert animals and a lot of times will do better alone (if food and water is in scarce supply, you don't want to be hanging out with someone who will only end up eating your share of food) so that might be why they attacked and killed eachother.


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

I love kinky animals


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

not phisicaly obviously :lol:


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## OnlyOno (Apr 4, 2007)

LOL. that was amazing.


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

OnlyOno said:


> actually, almost all animals in the wild will have same-sex mating romps. cattle do it when they're in estrus (the cow in heat will be the one mounting), and bonobos (lol, LOOK THEM UP, they're the most hilarious monkeys in the world) will go far enough to have gay relationships and orgies with eachother.


Yes, we all know homosexuality exists in nature. I don't think anyone was arguing that it doesn't. However, there are certain, well-documented cases where humping is not sexual and is a behavior associated with dominance and alpha status. Such as with spayed dogs.


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## OnlyOno (Apr 4, 2007)

JulesMichy said:


> Yes, we all know homosexuality exists in nature. I don't think anyone was arguing that it doesn't.


i wasn't arguing the point either, i was just mentioning it as possibly an explanation for their behavior. i understand that it can be a dominance issue as well. that came off overly harsh to me (maybe i'm PMSing, another natural thing) so i'll apologize if it offended you.


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## Lise (Feb 26, 2007)

I have found (though I don't know if it is the same way for everyone) that they tend to display this behaviour more when young. I notice very obvious heat cycles, and the mounting behaviour tapers off after about 8 months... I assume when the hormones start mellowing out a bit?


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

Lise said:


> I have found (though I don't know if it is the same way for everyone) that they tend to display this behaviour more when young. I notice very obvious heat cycles, and the mounting behaviour tapers off after about 8 months... I assume when the hormones start mellowing out a bit?


Prolly...I just theorized that they finally have a set heirarchy at that age, as my girls still go into heat at 1 year and 3 months of age.


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## Lise (Feb 26, 2007)

Oh yes I am not implying that in any way they no longer go into heat. 

They just don't do the whole body vibrate/ear flutter "COME HUMP ME" dance. LOL And the other rats tend to leave well enough alone.


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

Bonobos freak me out XD Look at those booobs D: Yeah, they scare me yet I can remember researching them for hours on end a few months ago when i first heard of them >_>

It was like a bad train wreck, didn't want to look but HAD TO D:


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

Lise said:


> Oh yes I am not implying that in any way they no longer go into heat.
> 
> They just don't do the whole body vibrate/ear flutter "COME HUMP ME" dance. LOL And the other rats tend to leave well enough alone.


I thought Poppy was twichy today! wow. Does "in heat" mean they are at the most fertile part of there cycle or that there on the blob?


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## OnlyOno (Apr 4, 2007)

> Bonobos freak me out XD Look at those booobs D: Yeah, they scare me yet I can remember researching them for hours on end a few months ago when i first heard of them >_>
> 
> It was like a bad train wreck, didn't want to look but HAD TO D:


HAHAHA. it's true. it's fascinating, even though it's wierd, lol.



> Does "in heat" mean they are at the most fertile part of there cycle or that there on the blob?


i don't know what you mean by the blob, lol, but yes, "heat" refers to the time when they are most fertile, and whether it's conscious or not, they make an extra effort to get noticed by the pretty boyses.  there has been some research to prove that even many human women unconsciously try a little harder to get noticed during their fertile days.


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

> i don't know what you mean by the blob, lol, but yes, "heat" refers to the time when they are most fertile, and whether it's conscious or not, they make an extra effort to get noticed by the pretty boyses.  there has been some research to prove that even many human women unconsciously try a little harder to get noticed during their fertile days.


on the blob = mestruating-local slang maybe


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

ladylady said:


> on the blob = mestruating-local slang maybe


Fortunately, rat's don't menstruate as human females do.




OnlyOno said:


> there has been some research to prove that even many human women unconsciously try a little harder to get noticed during their fertile days.


Yes, it has been researched and they noticed that with the higher levels of estrogen, females tend to _look better_ on days when they are most fertile.


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