# If rats draw blood during intro is it safe to keep trying?cant find any info



## Snowpea (Oct 23, 2015)

I don't want to give up and cannot get a third rat.I have two males who are alone right now and its breaking my heart.if all else fails I will try nutering but I'm afraid it's not even an issue of hormones.the first rat came to me neglected and had never seen another rat,was kidnapped before his eyes were open by previous owner.I'm not sure if he just doesn't speak rat.I found a friend for him but during intro blood was drawn.the new rat got a little bite on the tail and bled like a stuck pig.I of course separated them.but all I can find about this situation is the "no blood no foul" rule.well,if its broken is that game over???is it safe to keep trying?should I give it more time?should they even be in the same room?need advice,if they draw blood can you just not trust them again?I don't want the second bite to be more serious.they didn't try to kill each other,it was a tail nip...i knew this was a possibility and am comitted and able to care for both for the rest of their lives but i just dont want to give up....


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## MousE190 (Oct 7, 2014)

Do not give up. I mad a male with no rat social skills, spent his first months in a glass pen in a pet store, with no company. I got a second boy,( who was very social, grew up with others) tried the cage to cage, even did some cage swaps, after awhile I put the two into the bathtub, lots of treats,The resident did nip him once,,,me a coulpe of times, when I got involved. Step 2, I put the new guy inside a smaller cage, into the bathtub, dropped the other guy in,,,(outside the cage) covered the cage with yogurt, and the rats. Just kept repeating, saddly before I could get the two face to face the older got ill, and I lost him within 3 days. I then went out and re-homed 2 guys, did the same things,,, all on nuetral ground, went through a medical scare with the resident , sent me back 3 weeks,,, just stated over,,,,now all 3 all in the same cage, grooming each other and sleeping curled up together, best of luck


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## Snowpea (Oct 23, 2015)

Im sorry for your loss thank you for the encouragement, I will try the carrier in the tub plus yogurt method,I really don't want to give up. Needed to hear from someone with similar experience.I just want a happy rat pile,its so hard to say goodnight to them at bedtime when I know they're alone.


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## MousE190 (Oct 7, 2014)

Just take time,,the more time they see each other the better,,,I think with my older guy he just pushed his way around and finally threw in the towel, knowing the 2 youngsters were here to stay. I read that someone put the yogurt on the rats, all they did was groom,,,the more exposure the each other the better, I was putting the guys 3/4 time a day,,,it did work so keep at it , it is worth it,,,just give them lots of rubs, and re-asurance, let them know when they are doing okay.


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## Snowpea (Oct 23, 2015)

So I did a few more quick tub intros with the new guy in the cat carrier smothered in yogurt and my big guy outside.they did the lady and the tramp thing and accidentally kissed a few times but there was still some puffing and boxing.no blood though,no toe bites(yay!) I did have the new guy in a cage next to Snowpea so they could see each other but Snowpea just huffed and puffed and new guy(Luke) just stared and stood in boxing position for hours so I blocked off their view.I think that helped,they could still hear each other but started going back to doing normal rat stuff instead of staring contests.I gave that some time like that.

I have Snowpea(resident rat) in a double critter nation so I took him out,completely and utterly destinkafied the cage,rearranged it and blocked off the ramp,then I put one in each half and did lots more cage swaps.at first they were tearing at the bedding trying to get at each other.more cage swaps.when I put the little guy on the bottom i caught him getting on the ramp that separates the cages and he and Snowpea were acting the same as with the carrier method.no blood drawn though. 
it looked like I made a mistake not swapping the trays cause they can reach each other through the fighting hole as I call it.heads up.but no blood.the new rat is loosing his baby smell and starting to smell like a manly adult rat so maybe that's helping?he was over six weeks but maybe he was just to little when he got bit? They sleep as close as they can get to eachother and luke kinda copycats snowpea.
So last night everything was calm,they had both gotten so many snuggles and lots of playtime during the day i thought i would chance another intro.i felt like bringing them into the bathroom was stressing them out so i unwisely chose to just lower the ramp between cages and see what happened.i was at the ready,took out everything they could corner eachother in and watched.i expected the young little luke to rush down there but snowpea found it first and went up.he is very old fat and slow.
He amazingly wasnt poofed!they werent trying to kill eachother but it wasnt the best either.they tussled,i took a deep breath and let them get it over with since there was no blood this time.then luke humped snowpea who then poofed a little and tried tor hump him back then there was a rat cartwheel down the ramps like a cartoon and i said a command they both know and it threw them off enough for me to grab them one in each hand like someone asking to get bit but didn't and everything was cool.i got kisses from both and put them back in their opposite homes like a cage swap.then swapped again before bed.

so what im asking is from my description does it sound like there is hope?no blood even though they could have.what mistakes did I make that I can correct next time?should I keep doing it in cage or is it sending them the wrong signal?is the humping normal or should I break that up and distract them?if I pet them both at the same time they loose interest in fighting but go back at it as soon as I stop,am I just slowing the process down?


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

Ideally, when you put them together in the same cage it should not smell like either of them. Switching them between cages is to accustom them to each other's scent, but when you put them in the same cage, you want it to smell unfamiliar to them. At this point each sees the portion of the cage they live in as their territory so they will defend it against trespass. It would be good if they can play in the bath room or tub together and you have someone who could watch them while you completely clean and rearrange the cage before putting them in it together.

Some scuffles will happen while they sort out their pecking order and even though they might have been protecting their territory no blood seems promising to me. 

I do suggest when you feel you are ready to put them together do it on a day that you will be home all day. Let them play together for a while, then put them together in the cage. You will be available in case of problems and they will have several hours to learn to get along before you decide whether to leave them together overnight.


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## Snowpea (Oct 23, 2015)

Thank you,very good advice.I think I'm going to destink the cage again(completely and utterly) wheel it into a different room,do the carrier in the bathtub thing and see what happens with the cage having them on different floors with ramp down.I just don't know when to break it up though,should I distract them from the humping or if I don't see blood should I stand back like I wasn't there or be there petting them?


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

Every intro is different and I only once had any sort of problem, so I can't predict how it will go for you. If they get along well in the tub and you put them together in the cage, let them work out any differences unless you see blood or someone is screaming bloody murder. If you do wind up breaking them up be careful. Using gloves or a towel or something to protect yourself will help. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. I think it is going to work out for you.


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## Snowpea (Oct 23, 2015)

Thank you so much,I don't have any rat people in my area,need all the hope I can get. Its looking pretty good today,they don't seem traumatized or hateful. Got myself a welders glove today for emergencies.if anyone reads this thread who is new to rats,do not do what I did and grab them with bare hands.I can't believe I did that,it was very stupid of me and I could have been badly hurt and it would have been my fault,not the rats.


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## Snowpea (Oct 23, 2015)

Well,I gave them every chance I could and it looks like Snowpea just can't live with other rats.they had been doing okay with minor scuffles but not blood but snowpeas body language is still just all wrong.i think that him being taken from his mother before his eyes were even open had a huge impact on his social skills.he tried to kill the younger one luke last night.got him pinned in a corner and was going for his throat and anyways.,bloody wounds on Luke's sides,big bloody mess.Luke is alive and getting treated for the bites.Snowpea is one big angry poofball still.poor boys.I still think it was worth trying and better than Snowpea wasting away bored in his hammock forever.at least he had new experiences and got some excersize.I have them in separate halves of a double critter nation,I just hope its not stressing them out.when Snowpea passes away,which being two isn't far off,I am going to get two young brother males to try to keep Luke company,he seems like a normal rat.I don't want him to be alone either.then if he hates the new ones at least they'll have each other still.even in separate cages I feel like knowing their own kind is around and hearing the noises is comforting.

anyways if you're reading this and are planing on getting a companion for a single rat get a pair in case it doesn't work out.now I have two rats living alone and have to start over.knowing what I know now I would have gotten two.its really like cats,three isn't much different than two to take care of.the advice I got on here was very helpful and I think would have worked,just not with this particular rat who had such a rough start to life.its so important they get that time with their real rat mothers in the beginning. I think the woman who owned him before was under the impression he would bond with her better if she hand raised him like that and it's just absolutely false.the new rat I adopted spent a full five weeks with his brothers sisters and mom before he came to me and is absolutely my baby,he bonded to me right away.that's the good nature of these animals and why they make good pets.little Luke is social and follows me and was all kisses from day one.I didn't have to kidnap him before his eyes were open to get that,I just treated him kindly.Snowpea is very good with people I admit but I think he would have been anyway.I'm so bummed out


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

First off it sounds like Snowpea has some trouble, as you say living on his own can make it hard for him to read other rats body language which can cause issues. However all hope is not lost. First off I would go back and get Luke a same aged friend, this buys you time and means you don't end up with another snow pea.

Next I would seriously consider getting snowpea neutered. Often socially dysfunctional rats like long term lone bucks do need this. It gives them one less thing to deal with. If you get him neutered asap and then give him around a month for his hormones to die down then it is worth restarting the intros.

This time rather than doing repeated intros try following the steps in the carrier method, take your time though, giving them a good few days in the carrier to start with before moving to anything bigger.


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## Snowpea (Oct 23, 2015)

The last attack was so brutal it shook my nerves.it sounded like racoons.If I can find Luke two appropriate buddies should I look for babies just over six weeks or try and match his size? And I've always been worried about getting Snowpea nuetered because before I had him he had a cuterebra that the previous owner removed forcibly from his testicles,it was huge.the woman is nuts but I did see the thing in a jar and the hole it left.she says she took him to the vet twice and they just told her to put him down but its hard to tell with her.a cuterebra is something you do not want to look up before you eat.they are the larvae of botflies is all il say. My vet is also just branching out into rats and when I brought it up she basically said there could be scar tissue and complications and she wasnt comfortable doing it for anything less than a medical emergency.Anyone ever hear of anything like that?


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

It may be worth ringing around to see if there's a vet who is comfortable neutering rats. I personally haven't come across the same case (the benefits in living in good old rainy England lol), however I've had a rat neutered with a testicular tumour more than once and its generally straightforward. I even had one guy neutered, who then decided to eat himself (literally - I caught him and had to stick him back together in an emergency) whilst dosed up on the drugs, and after abscessing (unsurprisingly) he had to go for a debridement and a general tidy up of the glue and scar tissue, this also went well (though he promptly tried to eat himself again following his second surgery and despite being in the rat equivalent of a straight jacket). I do have an experienced vet though but I also do count company as very important.

How old is Luke?


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## Snowpea (Oct 23, 2015)

Yikes! That sounds like an unpleasant series of events! I am having a **** of a time finding any vet with rat experience that isnt hours and hours away or overpriced to a fault.one place wanted $325 for just a nueter.pain meds extra..still on the hunt and working on getting my cats vet to consider it.shes on the fence.little Luke is about four months now


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

I'd probably aim for 2 babies for Luke, for the easiest intros and see how things go.


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