# Food for my new babies



## franzi (Jul 3, 2012)

Can you help me decide what to feed my new seven week olds? I have never had rats before and was going to feed them the "rat nuggets" that came with the cage but they seem kinda boring and processed, plus their breeder fed them things like rabbit food, muesli and various human-food scraps - they particularly like chicken apparently. They are not interested in treats like the little vegetable drops or the seed sticks but seem to love Cheerios and bread. Can you help me come up with a varied, healthy diet that they might actually eat?


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## MalReynolds (Jul 3, 2012)

Lab blocks may seem boring and processed to us, but they do contain everything rats need in a nutritional sense as they were created for lab rodents. Harlan Teklad, Oxbow, and Mazuri all make lab blocks suitable for rats. It's often suggested to feed them fresh fruits/veggies as part of their diet if the main staple is blocks, anyway, and a rare meat treat isn't a bad thing. If you're dead set on a fresh diet, I believe there are a few good examples over at RatFanClub.com. Just keep in mind that a fresh diet may not be cheaper than lab blocks.

Congratulations on being a rat owner! I'm sure you'll love it!


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Fresh diets are not for the impatient or tight on time. I use a grain mix and fresh produce and proteins, but it isn't as quick as lab blocks. I don't find it to be any more expensive on the wallet itself.It takes a bit of research, but the information is out there. I can pm you some links when I get home.I feel that the extra time is well spent as I do not prefer to feed processed foods either.


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## franzi (Jul 3, 2012)

Thanks guys  I don't like the sound of the lab blocks - although I can see the appeal, since they cover nutritional needs and are quick - and have a feeling my boys won't eat them - they are very fussy! I tried giving them the nuggets in the end and they just sniffed them and walked off! Until I can get the right food what can I give them? I have cereals (no muesli), tofu, cheese, bread - white and brown, pasta - gluten free and normal, rice, buckwheat noodles.

Please do send me any info about fresh food you have  - time is not an issue, but ease of availability and cost are.


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## franzi (Jul 3, 2012)

Just had them both out for bonding time and got them to nibble a nugget each. How much are they supposed to eat per day?


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## Priscilla'sMom (May 28, 2012)

Just put a dish of the nuggets in there... they will eat them... and chances are you'll only know by finding them moved around the cage and chewed in half. I always keep a full bowl in my rattie cage. In addition, I give them a bowl of dry oatmeals and whole wheat cereals, dog bones, cheerios ect, and a daily dish of fresh fruits and veggies. Peas, broccoli, occasional some cheese, chicken, carrots, celery, hard boiled eggs, boiled whole wheat pasta, banana, strawberry, ect..... they go wild!


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## A.ngelF.eathers (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm not sure what "rat nuggets" count as in the quality department, but they do need their blocks. 
It's sort of like when you look at a juicy burger that makes your mouth water, then look at a bland carrot stick. The thing dripping with fat and heartattacks will surely be better in the short run, but not the long one.

Bread is a choking hazard. It can swell in their throats and rats cannot vomit or gag. Cheese is fattening and should not be a part of their main diet, more like a very special treat.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

I sent links along about nutrition and good ingredients for mixes. It's from another rat forum, so I don't think I'm allowed to flat out link it here. Check your PMs.

AF: I believe "rat nuggets" are being used in this context as blocks.

Blocks are convenient, but that's about where that ends. Good mixes are nowhere near comparable to juicy burgers in terms of what is good/bad for them. Fresh, whole, unprocessed foods are always the better bet if you have the access to what you need as well as the time and motivation to offer everything that they need.

When I give bread, I toast it so that it's not so gummy for them to be choked on, but I also drizzle it with olive oil for their coats. One little cube per rat per week. Bread is too processed for them to get good energy from, so it's not useful as a food source.

Make sure your tofu is pre-packaged and not bulk tofu, which can carry harmful bacteria.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Personally I prefer a fresh foods diet 100%. if you do your research its very easy and actually Much much cheaper (at lease for me) then having to buy lab blocks. they are full of processed stuff that they can't digest, and many actually have the wrong amount of protein or fat or other vitamins. Yes I am not kidding about that, I have become victim to that way too many times (reason I stopped using lab blocks, plus after finding over 500 under your dresser, they obviously weren't eating them.) also pre-packaged seed mixes are often made of stuff not safe for humans, which I find really sad because rat's can't vomit, and humans can, and just like some lab blocks, stuff they can't digest, not enough or too much of something, you get the story.
my mix for my guys is always changing, but it consist mainly of vegetables and fruits, my boys tend to be picky with grains some times. as Angelfeathers said, though I am taking this highly out of context most likely, don't make a home made diet full of greasy "heart attack" foods. No meats or surgery things like 99% of cereals, no dairy (rats can only really have yogurt) and for males, no citrus. Please read up on what is safe for rats to eat and not eat. Also just because most are missing this, rats don't have gal bladders, and unlike people who get it removed, a rat's body never learns to take in meat fats, and because of this meat fats cause a higher risk of cancer and tumor (reason my boys are vegetarians, they've all been healthy and happy, so its working out very very well for me). with chicken make sure its white chicken, its cooked, and preferably not that often. Black wolf rattery, AFRMA, and a few other websites and rat organizations have articles on proper rat nutrition.
My boys have been much happier, healthy, more energetic, and even have better eyes and coats then before. I have 3 male rats (2 of them one year, one of them two years old) and they all still act as hyper, if not more, then the day I got them.
If you must use lab blocks, try to make as much of their diet of fresh fruits and vegetables as possible. also do note that this home made diet doesn't come over night, took me around a year to formulate it so my rats got all the nutrients they needed. its not as simple as throwing a bunch of good foods together. Also do know that everyone's mix is going to be different depending on rats. my Rat Soda loves apples, the others hate apples. Charles loves Mushrooms, my others boys don't care, and Storm loves cooked eggs and raspberries, the other guys once again don't care much for it. Actually with lab blocks, my rat Charles every time I took him out, he ran under the dresser, took a lab block, went onto my bed, and ate it there before he went to play. I think he was the only one eating them. of coarse now with out lab blocks, Storm keeps trying to drag oatmeal under my dresser. 
as for the foods you listed, I wouldn't use any of them (the Bread, maybe, depending on what type of bread, I've never had chocking issues with bread). Try to go to the store and go the frozen foods section. get a thing of blue berries or mixed berries, and a thing of broccoli, or stir fry mix. defrost the amount you need and mix it with your lab blocks should help them out. also finding a good quality (and I mean good quality) dog food/kibble might actually help as well (vegetarian dog food, without soy or corn, tends to have less unneeded perspectives). cat food is too high in protein for rats. you can also get a thing of frozen carrots and peas for them. fresh is often better, but since its summer, frozen might be better cause then they can go "fishing" for foods to keep cool.
Wow sorry for all of that, but I do think that the more fresh foods compared to lab block ratio you have, the happier and healthier your rats will be (for the longest time my rats were on maybe 20% lab blocks and 80% fresh foods). I know others will argue with me, but for as long as time exist there will always be areas of grey on any animal husbandry. As I tell everyone, just do what makes you feel better and comfortable. Also sorry if this sounds more like a science report, its been a long day for me.


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## shawnalaufer (Aug 21, 2011)

http://ratwhisperer.blogspot.com/p/our-rat-diet.html
Thats my rats diet. I am currently working on a grain mix supplement to be given with the Oxbow Regal Rat that has some superfoods mixed in that I hope to start selling as well.


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## binkyhoo (Sep 28, 2008)

You have a lot of suggestions here. If you are looking for fast and easy, get a bag of frozen mixed vege. No fuss no mess and instant variety.


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## franzi (Jul 3, 2012)

Thanks everyone! So much awesome info! I have made up my own mix of mainly brown rice, cornflakes, kale, carrot, and a few nuts, dried strawberry drops and dark chocolate flakes. They LOVE it - does it sound okay to you?


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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

I personally do half and half because I do not feel comfortable that I will not mess up a homemade diet

I have lab blocks but they also get fruits veggies meats etc ... i am currently working on coming up with a dry mix as well ( cereals crackers pastas etc)

Your mix does not sound balanced Imo ...


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

No, you are missing a lot of nutrients there. You cannot just throw things together.

Nuts, strawberry drops, and chocolate flakes should all be reserved as the occasional treat. They have no place in a grain mix.

Processed cereals like cornflakes should be avoided, unless you are using a recipe that calls for Total cereal for the fortified vitamins. Cornflakes have little to no energy value for rats because of the way that they are processed.

Take a look at the links I PMed you. There are a lot of good starter recipes there, including ones that have ingredients found easily in the UK.


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## kriminologie (Mar 16, 2012)

I am also new and have learned a lot from the other posters on this forum. As a newbie, the easiest things for me to do were to give a staple like the Holistique or Harlan Teklad, and then give each of my pairs a bowl of fresh fruits and veggies every day. They really like the baby puffs you can get by Gerber or the store brands, and I think it's a healthier treat than the yogies they lose their minds for!


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

That diet doesn't sound right. Nuts are ok in moderation. I save dark chocolate for when they are having respiratory issues, strawberries drop should be a treat, and the rice should be cooked as when it swells up in their stomach it can cause bloat. you need to add more fruits and vegetables. As I've already said a lot of people on here have said, go to the frozen foods section. get a thing of broccoli, blue berries, stir fry mix, maybe a mixed berry mix, and carrots and peas. get some oats, sunflower seeds, and fresh fruits and vegetables like maybe some tomatoes or celery or cilantro. I would help you with a dry mix, but my boys prefer their fruits and vegetables over dry foods. if your on a really tight budget get some baby food. Some say that it gives them diarrhea, I've never had diarrhea caused by baby food, only their poop changing colors (which is kind of funny to be honest)
Keep trying, I would start with fruits and vegetables first and then start adding in dry foods its some what easier (in my opinion) to make their diet that way.


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## CarrieD (Nov 20, 2011)

Just to throw it out there, all blocks are not lab blocks. Blocks fed to rats in laboratory settings need to be nutritionally complete and consistent so that variations in diet don't throw off experiment results. As opposed, for example, to the Kaytee block available in pet stores, which is certainly not a lab block and doesn't even qualify as food, imo. As far as expense, I pay under a dollar a pound for the Native Earth (Harlan Teklad) lab block I feed. 

I do suppliment with a cereal mix and vegetables, but the block is the base I start with no matter what else I feed so I'm 100% sure they're getting everything they need in the proportions they need it. There's nothing wrong with mixing your own diet if you're sure about that, and there's nothing wrong with opting for a good quality block.


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## franzi (Jul 3, 2012)

Well...I'm confused! I didn't "just throw things together" - I did exhaustive research, including the links PM'd to me (thanks cagedbirdsinging) and came up with what I listed. It is 60% rice (I didn't cook it but will from now on), about 25% kale and carrots, 10% cornflakes and 5% nuts, strawberry drops and dark chocolate. I only put in like three strawberry drops (they are just tiny drops of 100% dried strawberry), two crushed nuts and about a 10th of a single square of chocolate. I also put a few nuggets/blocks in there and they did eat them this time.

On the forum cagedbirdsinging linked me to I read about suitable human cereals (it said Cornflakes were "fine for regular use"!), suitable fruit and veg, and the Shumanite Diet, which said to do half grain (brown rice) plus some veg (kale and carrots), cereal (cornflakes) and protein (nuts) plus a tiny amount of treatish stuff. I got the kale because it said they need it for copper. These are all things I went out and bought specially for them, I didn't just use stuff I had in the cupboards, I don't even like Cornflakes or kale! 

How about this for a modified recipe? Cooked brown rice, oats, some other cereal (which?), kale, carrots, berries and apples? Should I really not put in nuts or dried fruit? Because the diet I was trying to follow totally explicitly said to do so, if desired. 

I'm trying! ???


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## SezSorkin (Jun 11, 2012)

I mix up the rat nuggest (so i know they are getting everything they need) and i mix it together with the rattie muesli so they have a bit of variety. I also give them lots of fresh fruit and veggies etc


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Why did you choose rice as your only grain ingredient? Is it the only grain you have access to? I use a little brown rice in my mix, but I do not cook it. I feel that it's fine as-is in small amounts. As 60% of a diet, no. Look into more options for grains.

Do you mean Cornflakes as in the popular cereal, or flaked corn? As a cereal, it is too processed and has too many additives to be useful in a rat diet, in my opinion. For cereals in the mix, I stay with all-natural cereals like puffed rice and wheat with no additives.

You can leave the strawberries, provided that you know 100% that there is no sugar added. Dried fruits almost always have sugar added. If you made them yourself or read the label and it did not say that it included any sugar (not sure about labeling laws in the UK?), then it's fine in small amounts.

Again, I'd leave out the chocolate entirely. Save it for treats and respiratory distress. Some people like it make 5% of their dry mix as treats, but I prefer to leave treats as treats. Rats will almost always go for the treats in the mix first and end up not eating enough of the good stuff, which is why I leave them out.

If you must use a nut in your mix, choose cashews for their copper and manganese content. Those are vital nutrients, and every ingredient in your mix should have a purpose.

As for the vegetables, I prefer to do that separately from my dry mix. Dried kale sometimes has a hard time holding up to the heavier grains in a mix, which crumbles it into dust and lowers the actual content of it in the food. Kale and spinach freezes for me very easily, along with mixed frozen vegetables from the store.


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## franzi (Jul 3, 2012)

I chose rice mainly because it's easier to get than things like barley and spelt, which were also suggested on the list. I will cook it, as they didn't eat the raw stuff anyway, and mix it with a couple of other grains.

The Cornflakes are organic ones from one of our more "posh" supermarkets. Ingredients: Maize (95%), Sugar, Barley Malt Extract, Sea Salt, Soya Lecithin. As I mentioned before, the other forum's list of cereals said they were fine. 

The strawberries are 100% natural -Ingredients: Apple puree and juice concentrate, strawberry puree concentrate, cherry juice, fruit pectin, natural strawberry flavouring - no sugar. I also have blueberry and blackberry ones.

I will leave out the chocolate and give it as a treat. I knew about the respiratory association, that's why I chose it. Stormborn is chirping a little and was sneezing on the first day, I posted about it in the health forum. He's doing it much less now and I haven't seen him sneeze at all but am keeping an eye on him and considering taking him for a check up just to be sure.

I will put some cashews in the next time - this time it was just a hazelnut and a walnut.

The kale is not dried, it's fresh - that's ok, right?

Weirdly, they haven't been eating selectively! Apart from the raw rice, they ate everything I gave them!


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

I don't know another way to say this, but the reason they haven't been eating selectively (aside from the rice, which they should eat, and therefore _are_ eating selectively if they are not eating it) is because the mix, as it stands now, is not very healthy and certainly far from complete. When mixes reach that point where the nutrition there is as complete as it can be when not taking fresh produce and proteins into account, selective eating can be an issue.

Doing your own dry grain mix is not easy or quick. You need to take the time and effort to source out the proper ingredients, which means going to different shops or ordering online to get a variety grains, sources of protein, healthy seeds, dried herbs, etc.

I wouldn't mix fresh kale in with your dry mix. Dry and fresh foods are best mixed separately.

I took the 100% dried strawberry to mean that it was dried strawberries instead of dried over-processed fruits. Again, those drops are better off as treats as they are mostly sugar at this point (natural sugars, granted, but all of the fiber in the fruit has been destroyed by the processing).


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## franzi (Jul 3, 2012)

*Rat Diet v3.0
*
Dry mix: brown rice, oats, spelt, organic cornflakes, dried banana, cashew nuts, rat nuggets

Fresh mix: carrots, kale, berries, parsley

Treats: fruit drops, dark chocolate

How's that? I'm not trying to cut corners at all! From the info on the other forum you linked me to, and other stuff from other websites, this seems like a balanced diet to me. 

Does anyone know about vitamin supplements?


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Starting to look better!

Are the bananas truly dried, or are they banana chips? Banana chips are fried and are only alright as treats. Also, what nuggets are you using?

I'd get some more sources of grains to add in there, especially if they aren't keen on the rice.

Good fresh stuff! I would add spinach, broccoli, and basil to that pretty regularly. You can mix it up and offer different parts each day.

Folks in the UK seem to like Dr. Squiggles for vitamin supplements.


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## franzi (Jul 3, 2012)

Yeah, they are dried banana, not the fried chips - I love those though!

I'm wondering if it was just cos the rice wasn't cooked so I'll try it cooked and maybe add some barley?

They are Pets At Home Nuggets for Rats - it says they provide vitamins, minerals, fibre, protein and profeed, whatever that is. 

I think I will rotate the veggies, so it doesn't get too boring - can they have thyme or mint? I grow herbs so they can have fresh ones.

Does anyone in the UK know if I can get Dr Squiggles stuff in a shop or will I have to buy them online?


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## kriminologie (Mar 16, 2012)

I think the point that some have tried to make is that experienced rat owners have done months and months, if not years, of research to put together balanced mix recipes that provide everything rats need nutritionally, in a way that they'll actually GET (eat!) all the nutrients too. None of the balanced, well-researched recipes that I've looked into seem to contain less than ten ingredients, even with the the idea that fresh fruit and veggies will be provided too. And since every ingredient is specifically chosen, leaving something out defeats the purpose of the recipe - nutritional completeness.

It's clear you love your rats and they will be well cared for! But I would consider replicating a recipe in its entireness, and provide more fresh items too.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Thyme no, most of it is deadly to rats to what I know, mint is ok for rats but peppermint is a lot better then regular mint. Here is a link to good herbs. http://www.camarattery.com/herbsnaturalmedicine.htm
Barley is ok to my knowledge, the lab blocks (rat nuggets) sound ok, do you know the ingredients on them?
I would add more to your fresh mix just in general, like celery, and more fruits. Rats love apples, fresh bananas, even tomatoes can be given. you could also try adding cooked spaghetti (my guys rarely eat them dry, but some rats do eat them dry)
Not sure about vitamin supplements, and I don't know if you can buy from Dr.squiggles in the UK.
Just tomatoes (a website) has dried fruits and vegetables and even powders you can buy. Haven't tried them yet but a lot of people with rats use them. I think if you got some of the powders and dried herbs and you might be able to make your own vitamin thing to mix into your dry mix, or even better into oatmeal or something like that. or you can buy a lot of different dried fruits and vegetables to add in.
But overall it sounds good.


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## CarrieD (Nov 20, 2011)

franzi said:


> Well...I'm confused! I didn't "just throw things together"...


Oh, no - I just meant I was throwing the idea out there into the conversation, not that you were just throwing things together. Guess I didn't word it very well, I'm sorry! I didn't mean to disparage your efforts at all, only to point out that all blocks are not alike.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

CarrieD said:


> Oh, no - I just meant I was throwing the idea out there into the conversation, not that you were just throwing things together. Guess I didn't word it very well, I'm sorry! I didn't mean to disparage your efforts at all, only to point out that all blocks are not alike.


I'm pretty certain that was in reference to what I said, as that's how the mix felt to me!

No food is ever alike, as most people should know. Always bad and worse stuff out there.


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## franzi (Jul 3, 2012)

cagedbirdsinging said:


> I'm pretty certain that was in reference to what I said, as that's how the mix felt to me!
> 
> No food is ever alike, as most people should know. Always bad and worse stuff out there.


I was referencing what cagedbirdsinging said but didn't mean it nastily or anything! 

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. My boys are now happily, healthily eating the right things.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Awesome! Glad to hear it!


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