# Complicated abscess **UPDATE: not so bad - pic pg 3*



## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

So Carrot developed a lump over the bank holiday weekend, when all the vets were shut. The lump tripled in size overnight, and when it started going black we realised it was an abscess. So then it burst, and as ratties will, her and her sister pretty much removed it. I did soak it a few times in salt water but they will do what they want when you cant see what they are doing.

Anyhoo, we finally got a vet appointment yesterday morning, which resulted in us rushing off to another vet across town for an emergency operation. We suspected she had a hernia as she had a little lump under the skin after her spay. So the hernia ruptured and there was something sticking out. It was her intestines! So we went with the surgery, which was TRIPLE the cost of the **** spay, and they knocked about half off when I protested that it was their bad sewing up that caused the hernia in the first place. In the end I paid about Â£95 (US$190) Did I mention I have just moved house and have NO money left?

So she is home now, and she ate 3 or 4 of her stitches last night, but the vet double stitched so she is still held together for now. We have a pre-op tomorrow and I do not want to have to pay for another anaesthetic to have more stitches put in.

I tried cutting holes in my wrist strap but it didnt work. I have some gauze bandages today and I am gonna try wrapping her and if it doesnt work, im just gonna bandaid her with one of my EXTREME bandaids.

Anyone have any ideas of how to make a lampshade collar for something with not much of a neck?

Also, any suggestions on getting her sedated for the next week? It sure would make my life easier... j/k 

EDIT: I guess I should add that she is on metacam and baytril and separate from Pea. She is doing really well, apart from the eating of stitches, I'm not worried.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess*

Your vet can give you a small e-collar (or buster-collar as they are sometimes called). If not, call around a few vets. Once they are put on properly (and tightly) they are a saviour for stitches!

I've tried home-made ones and they are very hard to keep on, and certainly not as sturdy.

Oh yeah, I should add. They're not (or shouldn't be) overly expensive


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess*

I did ask at my vet, but they didnt do anything like that. There are no other vets around here :s


Do you think it would be ok to just stick a giant bandaid over her wound? I have one that will cover it all. The bandage didnt work , and I have to go to bed soon and I know she is gonna have some of the stitches out tonight


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess*

Probably not. She'll pull it off

Do you have a bandage? With Lou I had to body wrap her - wrap a bandage tight (not TOO tight) around her middle (elbows to knees) and tape it into place. It should immobolize her, pretty much. But you'll need to wake up every so often during the night - she may escape, she may start stressing out, she need to be able to get some food and water during the night etc


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## Lise (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess*

Do you live near your vet?

The best thing we have found to make a home-made e-collar out of is an old piece of x-ray film. The vets here don't carry rat sized ones either.

It is flexible film, and you basically cut a larger circle, with a small neck circle in the middle (and a line to open it up). We then use tape all around the inside neck circle so that it isn't sharp. Fit it around the neck and I staple it shut (with the sharp part of the staple out)... because it is easy with a staple remover to take out the staple and take the collar off, and re-staple it back on. I imagine you could probably use some heavy duty tape to close it too.

You can also ask your vet for self-adhesive vet wrap which works better for making a body bandage... but in my experience I have never had a rat stay in it. And I am more scared with those bandages and possibly restricting breathing!

It stinks that they charged you at all for the 2nd surgery if it was directly related to the first.  Thank god they at least gave you a deal.

Rats are here to make us broke, that is for sure!


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

*Re: Complicated abscess*

Do you have a paperback book with a nice thick cover? This might work also! They will chew through the plastic and paper of the book, but if you get one with a nice thick cover it should work nicely. My school books have this super thick plastic/cardboard cover and I had to put it on Meeps to keep him from scratching his stitches out.


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess*

Thanks for the suggestions. We tried a few things last night and in the end had to just leave her as she was. She is in tact this morning, and we are off to the vet in half an hour.

I was reading up about these body casts and one place recommended wrapping a couple of layers of that sticky bandaid tape around her middle to stop her bending. I dont have any but im gonna run it past the vet.

Id does suck that its kinda their fault, but it was a different vet who did the operation before, and i guess she COULD have pulled out a stitch last time but I dont think she did, and if all three layers were well stitched this wouldnt have happened.


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess*

Just to update, the vet glued her, and suggested putting something on the wound that she really doesnt like. So we put some Baytril on there as its the only thing she refuses to eat.

Second post op is Monday morning, at least I can supervise her over the weekend.


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

We had to take her in this morning. The wound is infected and she took out some stitches.

It was horrible, th vet had to take out what stitches were left and we are booked in for 9am for a reclosure (another Â£90 no doubt, although possibly more as I finally get the rat expert). In the meantime I need to do salt washes every couple of hours.

She currently has an open wound, so the vet made her a collar which we will put on when she recovered from the stress of this morning. Poor thing, she is worn out and so are we.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

Sounds like you're having the time of it. Pain in the bum, isn't it?

It's a good thing about the collar - I don't know how I would have managed recently with Lou (my picker) had it not been for her cone!

How big is the wound? Lise posted a reply in Lou's thread about hydrotherapy. (running the wound under a running rap of warm water). Perhaps that may be more effective with cleaning out the wound from infection? Although, it may stress her out a bit =/

Is she still on the Metacam? Nothing helps stitches like good pain relief!

http://www.ratforum.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=7443.html

Links to Lou's thread, see if it can help you any 

Good luck!

Edited : realised you mentioned pain meds in first post! duh


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

Hi

The wound is about 2 inches, from her lady bits. up her belly. We tried a collar, it lasted about 3 seconds so we are making some adjustments and i will try again when she wakes up.

She was ok with the salt wash, i used a big syringe and squirted it quite fast into the wound and she didnt mind too much. It took chocolate AND cheese to get her to sit still afterwards though.

She has been on metacam since 2 days before the op, but she had it injected this morning along with Baytril which she has been on since wednesday.

Today should be ok, shes mostly sleeping on me like yesterday. Tonight and then after the op tomorrow is the big worry. I asked about an opiate injection to slow her down for a couple of days but he said they would only do it in an extreme case. I dont know what they class as extreme, but il see how she goes.

I'd be interested to see the cone you used for Lou?


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

There are pics of her wearing it in her thread - if you want a close up of the cone on it's own, I can free-range her in a few mins and take it off and get a pic (she'll be relieved!)

Really, it's just a small version of the bigger ones (the lampshade collars) for dogs and cats. It's a cone, with three hooks at the bottom. And you can just tie a bandage through the hooks and tie into place


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

I saw, looks ideal. Where did you get it? My vet made one from cardboard> I could do with one of these for tomorrow after the op.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

I asked my vet for one and they gave it to me. I'm going to the vets tomorrow, if you can find a temporary solution until then I can get one and send it to you? Or, ask your vets if they know any other vets around the area (I know you said that there weren't many) but often you can find that vets can either a) order them in or b) send supplies between surgerys.

I don't think cardboard would work. Can you get a sheet of plastic? 

http://www.parrotchronicles.com/novdec2004/dimensions_collar.jpg

Something similar to that would do, and if you can superglue three small hooks into the hole in the middle, it would be ideal to tie it into place. I'd also get something like elastiplast tape (like I used on Lou) to tape the cone into the 'cone' shape, and also do the edges to stop any sharp bits.

Edit: I'd also add, if you're going to try make a plastic one, cut it big first, then trim in down when you've sized it on her correctly. It should be just long enough so the end of her nose can be seen over the edge (so she can get to food easily). If you tie it into place, use a regular bandage. If it's thick, cut it in half for the width. Tie it tightly, I tie it to the point where I can only just get the tip of my little finger through. Listen to her breathing after it's tied - check for wheezing (tied too tight) and watch her closely for an hour or two. Usually, they will really struggle against the cone, it can take two or three attempts. I usually run by the rule of thumb - if it's still on after 3 hours, it'll probably stay on. But giving her pain meds just before putting the cone on first time will help, as it will make her sleepy for a while


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

Cool, I will PM you, if you could send me one that would be great.

We will have to go for the cardboard one tonight and see how it goes. Shes been sleeping on and off all day, not been too upset by the salt water being squirted into her wound, and i was stupid earlier and forgot to give her a drink. She drank loads and then peed on me for forgetting. 
We are gonna have to have another go in a bit so we can check it stays on before we trust her to go back in her cage.

All this cuddling and sleeping on me has made this whole thing much worse, we have developed a proper bond this week, and I am even more worried now that she is not going to win this battle.


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**



xampx said:


> All this cuddling and sleeping on me has made this whole thing much worse, we have developed a proper bond this week, and I am even more worried now that she is not going to win this battle.


Ooh, yeah. I've been there. After Gracie's hernia repair, I felt the exact same way. If she pulls through, you will always have that special bond with her. The one where you made it through something awful together.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

She's just following her instincts, unfortunately. Some rats just will not keep stitches in.

I once had a rat that after 3 restitches had to have staples, stitches, glue AND a cone, which had to be harnessed onto him. Only then did he manage to keep those **** things in! It was a nightmare.

I've PMd you about the cone 

How long has it been now? I assume that the inside has healed by now? Perhaps if she gets the stitches out, by hook or by crook, it may just be an idea to leave the incision, like I had to with Lou? Treat the infection and let it scab over and heal over by second intention?


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

She barely touched the stitches after her spay so this is just weird. She is on pain meds now and wasnt before.

It was last wednesday, so 4 days of healing. the inside was full of gunk, and she pulled out the skin stitches and the tissue ones, but the abscess is causing issues with the muscle layer so they all need re-doing. if it was just skin id let it heal on its own but this needs sewing up.

Shes asleep in my sleeve, but im gonna get her up now for yet another wound flushing. poor thing has had a hard week


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

I can imagine. Poor girl. How often are you flushing?


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

approx every 2 hours.
Im not sure if it looks infected. If it is, I dont know what else we can do about it. We will flush again at around 11:30 after we get this collar on her, and she will just have to do until the morning at the vet. 

I just hope they can still do something if it is infected. Flushing is a 2 person job and we are both in work all day tomorrow :s

Tuesday is going to be interesting too...Id like to take her in with me, but I dont know how well that will go down at work. You know what people can be like when it comes to rats.


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

HELP we put the collar on and she is having a total fit! flipping out all over the place. is this normal? her breathing seems ok, but this is a massive over reaction to what we were expecting. will she calm down? my bf is currently holding her before she damages herself. HELP


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

Yes, it's normal. She'll flip out then calm down when she realises she can't get it off. Give her 10 minutes and if she's still going mad, take it off and try again later


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

shes going nuts. poor thing. its only been a minute or 2. do you think we should put her in her cage or keep hold of her?


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

Keep hold of her. Let her acclimatise. If she's open, thrashing around her cage won't help and could injure her more. Let her settle down, try getting her to walk around on a couch or something to get used to moving around.

Have you got any babyfood? It's much easier to eat with the cone on


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

i have yoghurt, which she will usually eat. She was on the sofa but was flipping around so we had to get hold of her. Shes still flipping out. Il get the yoghurt


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

Her heart is going a mile a minute. Im worried about her :s


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

She's just stressed out. Give it a couple of more minutes, if she's still severely stressed take it off, let her calm down and then try again. Lou was exactly the same the first time I tried the cone


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

had to take it off. she isnt our friend now. the bf is making adjustments as i think it was a bit too long, and then we will try again


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

Good luck! Maybe wrap her tight in a towel for the first few minutes after putting her in it? The second time I put it on Lou, I body wrapped her in a bandage. I don't know how that would fare with the open cut though


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

OK, she seems a bit better now. We will keep her out for another half hour or so but she seems ok. Just a little awkward.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

That's good. Take out anything in her cage that she has to climb over/around. If she has shelves, put everything she may need on the ground floor. I put a low-slung hammock a couple of inches off of the floor for Lou and she loves the comfort - makes it easier to sleep with the cone.

What bedding do you have? A towel laid flat is the best way to get around with a cone on - less to catch on it while walking.

I'd also tip the food/yoghurt dish up at an angle, it makes it easier to eat 

Good luck!


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

Were all calm now. For now at least. Phew. I may get some sleep tonight.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

Good luck! Lou sends her sympathies  At least she now has a fellow "medical sunflower"


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

She is on a brand new towel!!! We just moved and they were a housewarming present but not in the colour we wanted, so she has the luxury! She also has some facecloths and some paper towel. 

Her sick cage is a hamster cage so its only 7in high and about 1x2 feet. Just enough room for her

Pea is just coming out to play. she has been neglected all day,


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

She kinda looks like the lamp from disney pixar. Its not fair but i think she looks hilarious.

Im now told she is sleeping (im Pea-sitting)


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

It's good. She may be stressed out tonight so keep an eye on her. Lou's first couple of nights were terrible.


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

She was ok in the night. IT STAYED ON!!! Which must be some sort of miracle.

Anyhoo, we took her to see the proper rat vet (he was on holiday last week) and he has refused to operate as she is infected. We have added Flagyl to the Baytril/Metacam mix, as Baytril on its own doesnt seem to be doing much for the infection, and we are going to keep up with the collar for a week, and he reckons that by next Monday she will have healed a **** of a lot and won't need any sewing up, but the plan is to take her in next Monday and see what she is looking like.

So, this is much better. As long as she keeps the collar on. She wont need another anaesthetic, which has to be a good thing, and I wont need to sell my car to pay for her operation! Woo!

I think the collar will have to come off tonight for her to eat something properly. She cant eat her big biscuits because she cant hold them. Im also going to get her some Complan or something today.

Any new ideas for what to hide drugs in? Yoghurt has always worked but she is catching on.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

Get some complan (i use chocolate) and mix it with water. I then mix the meds and complan in a syringe and give mine that way. 

Now that cone is on, don't take it off! She's probably alright, but if she's anything like Lou, once that cone comes off it's twice as hard getting it back on again.

Get some baby food, put it in a little dish in her cage (on a tilt) it'll take a couple of days but she'll get accustomed to eating with the cone on. As long as the cone is short enough for her mouth and nose to press a piece of food into the floor, she'll be fine


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

I didnt think taking the cone off would be a good idea. I think we will leave it until the new one arrives, let her clean herself a bit and then leave the new one on for a week or so.

I was going to get complan, but Boots had a special on baby food, so i got her 3 savouries and a sweet. She was eating little bits of apple this morning, and she will probably eat her biscuits if i mush them up with some soy milk later for her.

She needs 1ml of flagyl, which is a lot when you are trying to hide it with 6 drops of other medication. She wouldnt take any this morning, but I think she is just peed off at the collar. She might regret refusing the painkillers.

I will go get some Complan tomorrow if this doesnt work. She is drinking at least so im not worried at the moment. Just relieved, and nervous that the collar might come off.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

Maybe try give the meds at different times? Say, an hour apart? 1ml is a lot and although I have no experience with flagyl I bet it tastes quite unusual to her. If they are being really problematic, I usually take out all the food from the cage, put a small dish with a little baby yoghurt mixed up with the meds. It can take a couple of hours for them to eat it, but at least you know they're getting it


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

I did think it might be best to seperate them, but it was worth a try

Flagyl tastes quite nice really, its the stuff I used to get when I was a kid. Metacam tastes like honey (well, it smells like it, I havent tried it, and Baytril is pure evil to her. 

I will keep adding nice stuff to the yoghurt mix i did this morning, and if it doesnt work I will give her a bit of each one seperatly. I would have liked her to have had the painkiller this morning but I think she is still stressing about the cone and she didnt want to eat.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

She'll probably be like that a few days - quiet, sleeping alot etc. Just keep her quiet and allow her to acclimatise to her new .. coned .. state LOL

I'm just leaving work now, so will get that cone in the post tonight hopefully


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

She kept the collar on all day, although she still tries to get it off.

She is eating too, but she isnt interested in this medicine. The babyfood will be coming out soon enough.


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Complicated abscess **UPDATE: bad bad bad**

Here she is sleeping at the weekend. 









Here is one with the cone on. She cant clean herself so thats porphoryn (and food) in her cone. We are cleaning her up every day, her poor little nose gets red. It will be easier when the collar is plastic.










Also, she hates us! Time to buy the Complan methinks


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Aww bless her.

It may also be worthwhile to get some babywipes to wipe/clean her face and nose. They become my saviour when I have wee cone babies


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

She quite likes trying to eat the tissue when we use that. I have some babywipes that I used to clean her with before. I will dig them out.

Im going to get the chocolate complan today. She doesnt seem to want to drink with the collar on, but she been eating apple and a bit of yoghurt. She is now dubious of anything that comes to her on a spoon, and as I thought she wont eat the babyfood since previous experiences with Flagyl. That stuff is so strong, its really hard to hide the smell. Im thinking gravy...

Oh, a scab is developing too, so its starting to heal. Phew!


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

I was just wondering if the cone looks too long?

She doesn't seem to want to drink from her water bottle, and she is having a little trouble walking around


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

No, that's fine. By trouble walking, do you mean she keeps catching it on the floor? That's normal

If you're giving her a lot of liquidated food, she probably won't get as thirsty, so it may be fine for her not to be drinking as much. Keep an eye on it though


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

I dont think she has touched her water bottle for 3 days.
Which is why im trying to increase the apple/grapes/tomatoes and other stuff with lots of water. 

I gave her complan on its own yesterday before trying any medicines, because I dont want to put her off all liquids

She is so sweet when she grabs a chunk of food and then realises she cant use her arms so she cant eat it properly. She will really enjoy getting the cone off tonight, and we will leave her an hour or so before we put the new one on.


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

I thought I would bring this one back to the top just to say that Carrot took her cone off by herself on Thursday, and went back in with her sister on Thursday night. I thought they might have issues as they have been apart for so long, but I don't think they cared too much.










She is 90% healed, but the last stitch isnt causing her any problems so she has left it alone. It should dissolve any day now. This is what she was like last week, halfway between really bad, and where we are now.









It was a little iffy at the beginning of the week as she was not happy with her cone, and didnt seem to be eating or drinking. Here is she is eating do-nut of all things during her 'cone-off' hour.










She does have a bald scabby ring around her neck from the cone, poor thing, and she looks a bit bedraggled after what seems like 2 solid days of grooming (she must have smelled really bad after a week with the cone) but shes a million times better and she is putting the weight back on (see: do-nut)









Thanks to everyone for their advice  Carrot loves you for it.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

She's looking great! Well done!


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

Please note the formerly brand new towel! Lol


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

Ta-da!










Barely a mark in sight!


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Very good! Nice to see!

Well done Carrot and her patient and persistant rat-mom! Lol


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