# Cruel euthanization methods



## Asteria

So I'm apart of a bunch of rat groups on facebook. Anyone who's a member of the more popular facebook communities knows that it's filled with bickering, petty arguments and sometimes highly sensitive off-topic posts (recently there was a post of rat owners sharing photos of their self harm scars, it tooks hours before an admin took it down).
I've left the more problematic groups permanently, however I have stuck around in some groups for the content (let's face it, who doesn't want their newsfeed bombarded with cute rat pictures?). 

However I'm regretting my decision to have even stayed apart of any groups, because today someone posted about how they self-euthanized their own rat after they couldn't afford to seek any form of medical treatment. They claimed they used a method of vinegar and baking soda in a small confined tub. I'm pretty lost for words right now and am questioning the legality of the whole situation. The thing that bothered me most is that while some people were as disgusted as I am, some actually had no problem openly supporting home euthanasia and linked to articles on how to do it from what some consider a 'reputable' website. 

There's no excuse to deny an animal veterinary assistance and play 'vet' at home (especially when the ailments could have been treated). Euthanasia is a medical practice that requires training. I mean how can you even guarantee that the concentration is correct and that you won't end up putting the rat in more misery and pain? How can you guarantee that you'll even end the animals life at all let alone do it in a humane way? 

No Vet? No Pet. If you can't provide your pets with medical treatment when necessary, please consider getting a stuffed animal or perhaps an indoor plant instead. 

Rant over.


----------



## moonkissed

This is so not going to be a good topic lol

There are tons of facebook groups out there for rats. I think the worst ones are just mods who are nuts lol but the larger ones, it is never going to be perfect when you have that many people. And mods can't be there 24/7 to watch everything. I just try to ignore the stupid people and focus on the good stuff 


On home euthanasia... this is one of those sensitive topics that usually just gets people riled up anyways. 
The truth is that it can be done safely and humanely. The AVMA says that both CO2 & CD are humane. I'm a breeder and I've done it myself many times, by far most breeders do & IMO to be a good breeder you have to know how properly. There is nothing in itself wrong with doing so.

But it is not something I would ever suggest to the average pet owner. It needs to be done correctly to be humane and it is easy for things to go wrong if you do not use the right tools or do things just right. I 100% agree pet owners should take their pets to the vet.

IMO as well, CO2 euthanasia should be done with a tank and not vinegar/baking soda or dry ice (which is another way). While it can work, it is much much more risky because you can not properly control how fast/slow it is, which is important. There is also risks of them touching it. And the baking soda has to be very fresh, which apparently most is not.

It is not something to play around with or do on the spur of the moment or just randomly read some advice on a website and try to copy. 

If you care about your pet you shouldn't want their last moments to be filled with agonizing pain and fear, which can happen if things go wrong. Worse if it doesn't work because things do not go correctly you just caused that for nothing.... 
Take your pet to the vet!


----------



## Asteria

> The truth is that it can be done safely and humanely. The AVMA says that both CO2 & CD are humane. I'm a breeder and I've done it myself many times, by far most breeders do & IMO to be a good breeder you have to know how properly. There is nothing in itself wrong with doing so.


I never condone the suffering of an animal, I know lots of rat rescues and breeders who euthanize their animals when their quality of life has fully diminished. I support the responsible breeders/rescues who have the knowledge and equipment to do so in a humane manner which they are confident in. There is a very big difference between a reputable rattery or a rescue organization doing it compared to a regular rat owner who got their advice from a facebook comment.

However, this rant is 100% directed at the crazy rat nuts who think they can just authorize information about how to euthanize at home with pantry cupboard ingredients to a run-of-the-mill rat owner who's too lazy to find a way to get money to take their rat to the vet.


----------



## DamselChum

I don't know... I guess I would rather see the rat euthanized at home by either cervical dislocation or C02 than have to suffer a long drawn out illness. If the money is not there, then it's just not there. Maybe the owner was irresponsible and got a pet when they couldn't afford it, or maybe life just happened. They got the rats when things were going good then in the 3 years they owned them something happened, a job loss, a major illness, a death in the family... All of those things can spell financial disaster, at my age I've lived through all of them, with pets at my side. The truth is sometimes they didn't get the best care. There was a few years where my dog didn't go to the vet at all, free rabies shots from animal control and that was it. There just wasn't any money for it. Should I have given him up? I had him for 7 years before my financial hardship, after a few years of struggling I got back on my feet and the dog lived another 7, dying in his sleep at the age of 17. Had I gotten rid of him when I couldn't really afford him, then chances are he would have lost an entire decade of his life. So I just can't bring myself to judge someone and say no vet - no pet, simply because I don't know the circumstances. 

As for the legality - Since the vast majority of rats are for pet food or lab purposes, they don't have the same laws protecting them as companion animals or even livestock for that matter , even so, there are still a lot of places where it is legal and acceptable to use a gun to put down an old dog.

The way you deal with your pet's end of life is such a personal choice. As long as it's done humanely and within AVMA guidelines, I see no problem with euthanizing your pet yourself. I'm not a breeder or a rescue, but when the time comes for my girls, I probably will do it myself. I am more at peace with giving them one last cuddle from me and a quick death from CD where they don't see it coming than I am packing them up, driving them an hour to a cold clinical place with lots of strange smells, only to be handled by complete strangers at the very end. Especially for my shy girl who won't even let my boyfriend handle her...

Now, to be fair, I am very well practiced in euthanizing rats and have zero doubts about my abilities to do so and I have been in a situation of having to put down a beloved pet with my own hands (My horse Mickey Mouse RIP)... So I know how to do it and know that I can handle the emotional side. Euthanizing a pet yourself is probably not the right choice for the vast majority of pet owners, but I have zero problem with the information of how to do so being shared.


----------



## moonkissed

> If the money is not there, then it's just not there.


I think that a big issue is that most people don't even try. They say they have no money yet are going to starbucks every day, buying smokes/drugs/alcohol, eating out every other day, buying clothes, etc... There are definitely times where the money is really not there for people, but really its not as common. Sell something if you have to. Most vets will also accept stuff like care credit or maybe even do payments. I see it too often that people just don't even try....



> So I just can't bring myself to judge someone and say no vet - no pet, simply because I don't know the circumstances.


I think the no vet = no pet is purely about those who don't have the money when they get the pet. Ofcourse stuff happens. We can't always plan for everything. And that makes a huge difference in the situation. Ideally one should have money set aside, but things do happen. I was in that situation myself before. But it is really directed towards people who buy a pet knowing they can't or won't have the money... that is seriously an issue.


----------



## Andromeda

I am and always will be against at home euthanasia because I was present for one that went horribly horribly wrong. At the time (this was a couple years ago, before I had rats) I had heard of the controversy surrounding this and was kind of on the fence about it. The method my friend used was supposed to knock her rat out, and then kill her once she was asleep.

Basically, despite very carefully reading the instructions, it didn't work right. Her rat died in obvious panic and terror, and most likely quite a lot of pain. My friend was *not *an irresponsible owner, and she'd been told by countless people (also on a Facebook group) that this method was 100% safe and painless. After it was over, I spent 45 minutes hugging her on her kitchen floor while she literally sobbed to the point where she couldn't speak, and was gasping for breath.

The rest of her mischief passed later that years (through natural causes), and my friend has not bought another rat since then, and I don't think she ever will. Watching her rat go through that broke her heart, and I think she still carries the guilt to this day.

I do not and will never support at home euthanasia. In my opinion, the only people who should perform euthanasia are trained professionals who know what they're doing. Yes, a lot of the time, the at home method works just fine. But after having seen it go wrong, and seeing the effect it had on my friend, I just cannot condone it. I don't care if it's only 0.1% of rats that react that way, I could never risk putting my boys through that.

When it comes to breeders etc, I think an exception can be made because good breeders of any animal kind of have to become mini-veterinarians. And good breeders are dedicated enough to what they do to be as educated as possible on how to do these kinds of things correctly.

But for everyday pet owners....for the love of God, please just take your animal to the vet. For any medical procedure. If you can't afford it, surrender it to an animal shelter. I am so sick of hearing this excuse of "Just because I'm broke, doesn't mean I shouldn't have an animal!!!". Yes, it does. Part of being a good animal owner, is knowing when your pet would be better off with someone else. It's cruel and selfish to keep an animal you can't afford. Period.


----------



## Gribouilli

Andromeda said:


> I am and always will be against at home euthanasia because I was present for one that went horribly horribly wrong. At the time (this was a couple years ago, before I had rats) I had heard of the controversy surrounding this and was kind of on the fence about it. The method my friend used was supposed to knock her rat out, and then kill her once she was asleep.Basically, despite very carefully reading the instructions, it didn't work right. Her rat died in obvious panic and terror, and most likely quite a lot of pain. My friend was *not *an irresponsible owner, and she'd been told by countless people (also on a Facebook group) that this method was 100% safe and painless. After it was over, I spent 45 minutes hugging her on her kitchen floor while she literally sobbed to the point where she couldn't speak, and was gasping for breath.The rest of her mischief passed later that years (through natural causes), and my friend has not bought another rat since then, and I don't think she ever will. Watching her rat go through that broke her heart, and I think she still carries the guilt to this day.I do not and will never support at home euthanasia. In my opinion, the only people who should perform euthanasia are trained professionals who know what they're doing. Yes, a lot of the time, the at home method works just fine. But after having seen it go wrong, and seeing the effect it had on my friend, I just cannot condone it. I don't care if it's only 0.1% of rats that react that way, I could never risk putting my boys through that.When it comes to breeders etc, I think an exception can be made because good breeders of any animal kind of have to become mini-veterinarians. And good breeders are dedicated enough to what they do to be as educated as possible on how to do these kinds of things correctly.But for everyday pet owners....for the love of God, please just take your animal to the vet. For any medical procedure. If you can't afford it, surrender it to an animal shelter. I am so sick of hearing this excuse of "Just because I'm broke, doesn't mean I shouldn't have an animal!!!". Yes, it does. Part of being a good animal owner, is knowing when your pet would be better off with someone else. It's cruel and selfish to keep an animal you can't afford. Period.


Poor rat She thought she was loved and was killed horrendously by the person she trusted and loved. Of course your friend didn't mean for it to happen that way, but the rat didn't know that, or understood that she wanted to help her. I feel bad for your friend, really bad- it's horrible, and all because some online clueless people said it was an easy and bulletproof way to euthanize a rat to save a few bucks Well it is obviously not bulletproof, and bad experiences with that method are quite common.


----------



## Jaguar

CO2 euthanasia IS considered humane by the AVMA.

HOWEVER!! It has to be heavily controlled & regulated PURE CO2. This means NOT BAKING SODA & VINEGAR.

This is a quote of what I've posted on another thread about the topic



> https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Documents/euthanasia.pdf
> 
> There are the AVMA guidelines for humane euthanasia. Specifically these passages are relevant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inhaled vapors and gases require a critical concentration within the alveoli and blood for effect; thus, all inhaled methods have the potential to adversely affect animal welfare because onset of unconsciousness is not immediate. Distress may be created by properties of the agent (eg, pungency, hypoxia, hypercarbia) or by the conditions under which the agent is administered (eg,home cage or dedicated chamber, gradual displacement or prefilling of the container), and may manifest itself behaviorally (eg, overt escape behaviors, approach-avoidance preferences [aversion]) or physiologically(eg, changes in heart rate, sympathetic nervous system[SNS] activity, hypothalamic-pituitary axis [HPA] activity).
> 
> 
> 
> And
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (3) Inhaled agents must be supplied in purified form without contaminants or adulterants, typically from a commercially supplied source, cylinder, or tank,such that an effective displacement rate and/or concentration can be readily quantified. The direct application of products of combustion or sublimation is not acceptable due to unreliable or undesirable composition and/or displacement rate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An example of sublimation would be CO2 euthanasia by dry ice.
> 
> 
> If you feel you can follow the guidelines and can perform a "safe" euthanasia at home, then no one's stopping you. But there is always huge potential for error and inhumane suffering.
Click to expand...


----------



## smilesandsqueaksrattery

Let's take an example of a rat with a large mammary tumor. Sure, this is not a life threatening condition, but the tumor grows, nutrients that should be going to the... well, the rat part of the rat, go to the tumor. The tumor gets larger and the rat is dragging it around and begins to struggle to move.

Tumor removals can be very expensive. I've spent over $1k on a single rat after she chewed her stitches out twice and had to get re-sewn up. It gets to a point where you have to weigh what you can do. The rat can be older, the rat can be sick, the tumor could be in a risky spot for surgery. Then euthanasia may need to be considered. But even going to the vet to have your rat pts can be expensive, and is not necessarily done humanely (intracardial injections). One of my females developed a pyometra and rapidly declined and they charged me $180. That's when I decided to learn CD.

As mentioned, CO2 and CD are approved by the AVMA. I believe freezing under 7 days is as well, but we are talking adult rats here. CO2 requires a carefully planned setup, and CD requires... mental strength I would call it. Both, of course, need to be done correctly to be humane. I don't see a difference between a pet owner and breeder doing it, as long as they have read up carefully on the procedure, talked to someone knowledgeable and are well prepared.

Instead of considering whether someone is denying veterinary assistance, I instead think of letting the animal suffer. Personally, I would rather see our tumor rat humanely euthanized than continue to live a sub-par quality of life. Not quite "no vet, no pet" but "no way of dealing with illness / suffering, no pet."


----------



## Mewlittle

I know what you mean by the tumor subject I had a cat years ago a beautiful long haired tortie shortly after I got her I notice a small lump under one of her nipples when I was brushing her a week later or so she snuck out and someone bashed her in the face I took her to the vet to have her eye removed I spent over 300 on the visit just to have the vet tell me it was a fatty lump with out preforming any tests at all a few months later I took her back to the same vet for a URI and I asked the same vet about the lump because it grew 3 times it size and it didn't attach itself yet he goes its just fat I go are you even looking in the right spot? so i showed him he still said a fatty lump a couple months later I took her somewhere else for shots i asked that vet about the lump he told me its to late to remove it because it already attached itself to her abdomen and already spreeded I go how do you know it spreeded already? then he shows me another 1/2 penny sized lump under her armpit he says it was breast cancer then he asked me why I didn't have it removed when it was still movable I told that vet why and he got pissed at the other vet for not removing it when he already had her under for emergency eye removal months had past after that visit the tumor grew and grew because the vets couldn't do anything for her I think it was just them being assholes because were I lived vet care sucked anyway when it was time to put her to sleep i called the vets asking how much it would be it was over 300 just to put a dying cat down so i called all the other vets they also charged over 300 so i called the shelter they did it for 15 bucks >i had more typed out then this darn site signed me out i dont feel like typing it again :/

sorry for my long reply


----------



## Jaguar

That's why I had Bernard euthanized. He was getting old, and was covered in fast growing, aggressive, deeply attached tumors. Likely cancerous. Surgery just wasn't a good option. It's a very different situation from the typical benign mammary tumors a female might get.

I had to shop around a lot, not only for a vet that would do it properly, but for one that would do it for a reasonable price. I ended up paying $20 for iso & heart stick.


----------



## LilysPets

As a former employee in the veterinary field, I even find some euthanasia procedures hard to watch. Many think it's peaceful, and it can be for some, but there have been numerous animals that I heard screeching, crying, and panicing for a few moments and then gradually, the sound died away... Not so "peaceful" imo. :/

It's a touchy topic to say "If you don't have money, don't have a pet," because every situation is different. When I was 16, I ran away from an abusive home and my ferrets were the only rocks and emotional support that I had. Long story short, I was on welfare throughout high school and was poor. However, I made sure my ferrets got all of the right care and attention they needed. It wasn't easy to whip out $360 for a surgery, but I sold things, borrowed money from friends, and made a way. Many of you would have told me to rehome my pets because I was in a bad situation, but they were all I had and they are STILL well cared for. Seniors and seeing specialist vets now due to their condition, but they are well. Now, I lived poor but now I am financially well off and I can afford any vet bill that gets thrown at me. During a hard time, including financially, many discouraged and shamed me from having pets, but I still made sure my ferrets got the best diet and medical treatment, even if that meant no groceries for me. Yes, I did starve for a couple days and ate food at friend's houses just so my ferrets could get their vet care. They are still alive today and I travel an hour and a half away to see a specialist for them. Even with the success I have with no idea I could be doing this better, I should have rehomed my only family members?

Should I have rehomed them because I couldn't afford a $1,000 bill when all I could gather up was $360? They were all I had, I still don't talk to my family. I don't think it's a matter of how much money you have, but how hard you try. Having a pet IS a financial responsibility, but I don't think it is right to judge someone based on money. My pets didn't suffer and lived, ate, and received better care than I ever did. Now my partner and I make very good income where we never have to worry about money anymore, but I still don't judge those who can't afford an expensive vet bill. The people that I DO judge, are the ones who sit around, whining that they don't have the money to the vet and don't do anything about it!


----------

