# OH NO...



## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

Ok everyone, I am in a PANIC right now, so if this doesn't make much sense, I do apologize...I'll do my best...this really could have been posted in caring for unintentional litters OR rat health, so I just put it in "general."

Anyways, when my babies were 4 and 1/2 weeks old, I weened them and separtated the males from the females. This was easy, because by this age the males have definite, prominent testicles.

So today, I picked up Luna, and I noticed that she has a definite lump by her bottom right leg, which looks and feels frighteningly similar to a testicle. I looked at her vagina, and there is something red coming out of it. It looks really, really similar to a "dropped" uterus (I apologize, this is far from the real term for it, but I can't remember what it is), which is usually easily remedied by a spay. If it [/i]is_ a penis, it is not a healthy, developed one.

Here are some issues:

She (he?) appears to have a right testicle...however, it has just shown up in the past couple of days...and there is no left one. Could this lump simply be the uterus?

She does _not_ have nipples, while the other female babies now do. If she does have them, I could not find them. They are 9 weeks old, but maybe she is a "late bloomer." She is actually smaller than the other females and not even close to the size of my male babies.

She (he?) has been exposed to _7 females_ in the past 4 1/2 weeks. Nobody has gotten pregnant thus far, but they babies have only been sexually mature for 3-4 weeks. (Assuming they reach maturity at 5-6 weeks). The females aren't showing any signs of pregnancy except for Eleanor, whose nipples are showing. However, her nipples have shown since we've had her, for over a year. 

My last question is, at what age is it generally considered safe to get a female spayed? I could potentially have 7 pregnant females here, worst case scenario. I was actually seriously considering getting them all spayed in the near future because of the health benefits, but I may need to bump it up and even could possibly have some e-spays on my hands. But the little ones are only 9 weeks old, and I just want to make sure that that isn't too young.

Here are some pictures of Luna (or Larry... :wink: )
See what you think, underdeveloped male, or female with a dropped uterus...

















_


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

I didn't preview that message before I posted it, and in my panic, I totally misused italics. Please disregard!


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

Ok, I just found what Feline Wolf posted a while back in the health section, and Luna really doesn't look like that...but every prolapsed uterus could look different, I'm just not sure...also, for Luna's to show up, you have to push on her stomach, slightly above her genitals (which is, incidentally, how you can get a male rat's penis to show). I'm perplexed...but if it _is_ a penis, like I said, it definitely does NOT look healthy when I compare it with the other males'. Oy.


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## Secularian (Nov 7, 2007)

I have no idea what it could be, but a visit to the vet certainly sounds like it's called for. I hope she's okay.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Forget testicles...look at the space between the anus and the genitals (your pics are too blurry for that). Its possibly a male with undescended testicles.

These babies were only 24 days old but you will see what I mean
Female - small space between the anus and urethra/vagina








Male - much bigger space between the anus and genitals (this is where the testicles develop if they descend)









I have pics of my adult boys and girls on their back as well. 

Lucine - adult female...small gap









Bear - neutered boy, testicles shrink up but you can still see the bigger gap.









This method is how breeders sex their newborns 

From a _guess _on those pics, female with a tumour or abscess.


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

lilspaz68 said:


> Forget testicles...look at the space between the anus and the genitals (your pics are too blurry for that). Its possibly a male with undescended testicles.


Thanks lilspaz. Had heard of that method, but wasn't sure how reliable it was. That's where this one gets weird. Up until I noticed the lump today, Luna has always had a small space, but it's now a larger space. Also, my sister just helped me re-check, and we compared the space to a male rat and a female rat...it is actually not the same as either. However, the lump has stretched out the skin, so...who knows? My sister felt that she was more similar to a female rat. Luna has an appointment to be spayed on Monday IF she is a female. If not, looks like I'll be having them all spayed at once (I had wanted to stretch it out a couple of rats per week to help alleviate the financial burden, but...oh well :roll: ) Anyways, thanks for the input!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

ledzepgirl16 said:


> lilspaz68 said:
> 
> 
> > Forget testicles...look at the space between the anus and the genitals (your pics are too blurry for that). Its possibly a male with undescended testicles.
> ...


I think you have a female rat with an issue...how sad, at 9 weeks.  That will definitely pull the skin and make the gap seem bigger.

Good luck at the vets, you might need a removal as well as a spay for her.


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## Charlet_2007 (Nov 10, 2007)

You have a male sorry... Luna is and Luner lol is that even a word? lol


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

my guess would be on a female with a problem. nipples can sometimes be hard to see on young furred rats. heck, i have a hairless baby that i can't see all 12 nipples on yet but is definitely female. 

vets go by size to determine when they can operate or not. for bribery, they neutered at 8 weeks but he's a boy and so was bigger by then. i hope the vet can help. it may just be a bit of a lump and most of those are benign, i don't know the risks involved in a prolapsed uterus. in any regards, i hope she pulls through well and please keep us updated.


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## Charlet_2007 (Nov 10, 2007)

Here's pics of my female rat Lola's babies she's got right now.. Male is 1st.. Female is 2nd.. Then both.. on the both pics.. Male on the left.. Female on right..

Male: 


















Female:



















Both: (Male on left.. Female on right)


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

Update on Luna:

Luna _is_ a female... :wink: 

Bad news:
When the vet saw her, he immediately said she is too small to be operated on yet (she takes after her mom and is the littlest rat baby).

Good news:
She appears to have a benign tumor (but she's so young!) and can probably be spayed and have the tumors removed at 12 weeks, in about 2 and 1/2 weeks. 

That's all for now!


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## glindella (Sep 9, 2007)

I love happy endings


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## Charlet_2007 (Nov 10, 2007)

id get a 2nd oppion.. not all vets are right.. but thats cool congrads


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

Thanks Glindella, me too!  



Charlet_2007 said:


> id get a 2nd oppion.. not all vets are right.. but thats cool congrads


I'm confused, a second opinion on what? :?:


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

ledzepgirl16 said:


> Charlet_2007 said:
> 
> 
> > id get a 2nd oppion.. not all vets are right.. but thats cool congrads
> ...


i'm a bit confused by that comment to but i my guess to what that means is to get a second opinion on when the surgery can be done... i think that's what it means, i could be wrong though


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## Charlet_2007 (Nov 10, 2007)

yep.. and the sex too.. did they do a x-ray?


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

Charlet_2007 said:


> yep.. and the sex too.. did they do a x-ray?


LoL, if somebody who's been to college for over 8 years can't sex a rat, he shouldn't be in practice in my opinion :wink: ...but seriously, I've been going to my vet for 12 years, and he's never been wrong yet (even when I _have_ sought a second opinion, he was the one who was right after all), so I feel pretty confident with him. Luna is definitely a female, that's not in question any longer...

But Twitch was right, they decide whether you can operate on an animal based on size, and my vet didn't say it was impossible, he said he simply wouldn't do it for a few more weeks because the risk to Luna would be far too high (due to her size...she is the smallest of her siblings). I guess I could try to convince a vet to take that risk, but I'd rather just wait a couple weeks since her life isn't (yet) in danger.

No x-ray, he didn't feel it necessary at this point.


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## Charlet_2007 (Nov 10, 2007)

well just asking sorry i adopted a cat from (they had this cat since it was 2 weeks old) the local vet.. They told me it was male.. i got to looking at "him" and I told my husband it was a female.. My husband told me the same thing you did.. He's a vet he can't be wrong BS.. I took "him" to the vet to get neutered and they called me back and said that they would have to wait a week because it turns out that Horatio my cat that was suppose to be a "male" was a female :roll: :roll: .. I named her Danali.. So yeah they can be wrong and the guy was a vet for 20+ years...


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

Charlet_2007 said:


> My husband told me the same thing you did.. He's a vet he can't be wrong BS...So yeah they can be wrong and the guy was a vet for 20+ years...


wow, I don't remember saying a vet can't be wrong...


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## Cassi (Oct 19, 2007)

hope the op goes ok...

to the above comment why did you take "him" for neutering if you were so sure he was a she then :s ?


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## Charlet_2007 (Nov 10, 2007)

I told them that and they thought i was wrong.. like talking to a brick wall.. so why put up a fight..


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## Charlet_2007 (Nov 10, 2007)

ledzepgirl16 said:


> Charlet_2007 said:
> 
> 
> > yep.. and the sex too.. did they do a x-ray?
> ...


right there ^^^^^^^


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

I simply said he has never been wrong _yet_, and that I feel _pretty_ confident in him. I *still* did not say that vets are infallible and can't be wrong. That was not in anything that I wrote. I'm sorry if you feel that that's what I was implying, because it wasn't, and because I certainly didn't directly say vets can't be wrong...I'm sorry if you had a bad experience with your cat, as well, but it doesn't change how I feel about my vet's experience.


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

Cassi said:


> hope the op goes ok...


Thanks Cassi, me too, and I'll keep ya posted.


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