# New rat with porphyrin around one eye - but otherwise healthy?



## caraniente (Dec 4, 2011)

Hi all,

Hoping some lovely soul here might be able to give me some advice. I adopted two neutered boys (~1yr old) from our local RSPCA about a month ago, originally to be new friends for my little old lady, who unfortunately seems to be on her last legs with a chronic respiratory infection, so I can't in fact introduce them . They've got their own big cage and seem to have been settling in pretty well, one is very obviously more friendly and more confident and the other is still very nervy about being petted or picked up but is slowly coming around to the idea of coming out and standing on my knee to get his treats (and is just about letting me give him a quick pet before he is allowed to take it), so hopefully I'm getting there 

The nervy one (Teejay) has had fairly constant porphyrin around just one eye - always the left - since I got him. I thought at first it could be stress (adjusting to his new home) since there doesn't seem to be anything obviously wrong - though it's not entirely easy to tell since of course he gets quite upset if I pick him up, let alone poke and prod him! I'd have thought it would have settled down by now if it was stress though, so I'm wondering whether I should take him to the vet. I know they looked at him at the RSPCA before I adopted them, but vets can be variable and I know a couple of the vets at our local animal hospital who've been very good with Kyouko and Kiri. On the other hand, am I not giving him long enough to de-stress? And given that he is still getting used to me and doesn't like being handled much yet, am I better hanging on a bit longer until he'll at least let me hold him rather than wrestling him into the carrier and having to restrain him at the vet, all of which is going to stress him out even more and probably set me back further on getting him over mistrusting humans?

On the other hand if I leave it a couple of weeks, am I going to end up with a less stressed but more sick rat? Neither of my girls were ever porphyrin-y, not even Kyouko when she had pneumonia, so while I know its a sign of stress/illness or maybe just something irritating the eye, I don't really know enough to work out the best thing to do ???

I thank you in advance, all ye with the great wisdom of rattyness, for any advice you can give me!


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## RatzRUs (Feb 5, 2012)

Can you get him too the vet just too make sure? I had too take mine. Yesterday turns out its allergies,but it's always good too double check. What type of bedding are you using?


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## RatzRUs (Feb 5, 2012)

I know you don't want too stress him by throwing him in the carrier,but you don't want your other rattys getting sick either


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## caraniente (Dec 4, 2011)

They're on Carefresh atm, but I've just ordered a huge bale of finacard as the last couple of Carefresh bags have seemed a bit dusty to me... also the finacard is much cheaper when I'm running two cages! I might put that in the cage over the weekend for him and see how he does, then make an appointment next week if it doesn't settle by then. Better safe than sorry and all that, just awkward trying to afford it right now as the girls have cost me a good few hundred pounds between surgeries and antibiotic-resistant respiratory infections over the last few months 

I'm not worried about him making his cagemate sick if there is something - I got the two of them together and they have, as far as I know, grown up together - certainly they were in the RSPCA for a few months together before I found them (poor lovelies, they're so sweet I can't believe no-one took them in all that time) so anything that Teejay has, Timothy was exposed to long ago! 

Cheers for the advice - I'm guessing most likely thing is something irritating his eye on that side, but getting a look is another thing entirely!


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## tifanyk (Mar 30, 2012)

Apparently, all rats are born with Myco (upper respiratory infection) and there is no cure. Some just don't get affected or have symptoms. I have three rescued lab rats (yes they can get myco) and lost one, Kai, a while ago to myco. They didn't have any signs for a long time except the porphyrin so I'm thinking it might be that. Even if the rats aren't together, it can be transferred through the air. I only had mine a couple months before the wheezing started and I tried every kind of medicine and nothing worked. Doxy, baytril, tetracycline everything and eventually he got so sick, stopped eating and died within a day of severe symptoms (I honestly don't think the vet knew what he was doing though-do yourself a favor and pay a well qualified exotic animal specialist if you are going to go to a vet. If you go to a low cost like I did, the vet will likely not be familiar with the right way to treat rats and you will try a million different things which ends up costing the same amount of money in the long run.) His dad (Splinter) and brothers (Peter Pan and Kramer- great names huh?) upper respiratory infection went away by itself and they seemed to be doing okay. Since Kai died, I am determined not to loose another to that "incurable" disease. 

I am vegan and lead a very natural lifestyle, using food as medicine, and I hate to give my rats chemical drugs when I would never myself take them. But like I said, determined not to loose another rat to myco, Splinter, Kramer and I recently made our way to the (best) exotic animal vet in town at first symptom of upper respiratory infection. Doxy and batril in combination with a nebulizer worked wonders and their colds went away within a week! I was sooo happy! Until a month later when I heard them wheezing again. I know myco is a life long thing, but don't you think there is OBVIOUSLY something wrong with these treatments if once you stop, the cold comes right back? I am against chemical drugs because it only suppresses the cold, it doesn't do anything to help your rat build up a good immune system to help fight against future attacks. 

So this time around, I am treating it naturally. Living in the Information Age, we really have no excuse not to find a natural remedy when we have a million resources right at our fingertips! Even if it's not myco, these natural methods will probably cure it. Heres what I found;

First of all, feeding as many fresh fruits and veggies over store bought rat food is the best diet you can give your rats. Mine have been on a vegan diet of raw fruit and veggies and a little bit of raw nuts since I got them, and one of mine is over 3 years old and still going strong! 

Eye infections are difficult to treat, which is why you should try *C**olloidal Silver. *It's known to treat wounds and infections when it comes into direct contact, and it doesn't burn or sting so it can be sprayed directly on the eye. Spray twice a day and it should heal very quickly.

The thing I'm most excited to try is *grapeFRUIT seed extract *(not to be confused with grapeseed extract), I read so many amazing stories, it's a miracle cure for so many things and is said to relieve myco in rats. Grapefruit seed extract will kill viruses, fungus, bacteria (myco) and parasites. It is used in vet and zoo settings to kill animal parasites and bacteria and a general antiseptic. Get in capsule form and break open the capsule and sprinkle on food, the taste is very bitter so you only want to put a little. One capsule should last one week for a rat. 

If you use the heat or ac, *put jars of water on the heater and vents* to put the moisture back into the air that the heat/ac take out. Get a *humidifier* if you live in dryer climate. I don't have one so everyday I put my rats in a carrying cage and put them in the bathroom with me when I take a shower, the steam is good and will help them breath better (you will notice a significant decrease in wheezing). I use only natural bath products like vinegar and baking soda, so the smells don't affect them. If you use a lot of chemical cleaners, put them in the bathroom when you are not taking a shower and run the water on burning hot for at least 15 minutes. Seriously, make it a goal to do this once a day. It helps so much. 

Consider *eliminating petstore foods*, which are high in dyes and fillers (did you know half of it could be cardboard?) If you wouldn't eat it yourself, how is it safe for your best friends?? Give your rats fresh fruits, veggies, or grains like oatmeal 5-6 times a day in small quantities and at night, leave a bunch of lettuce, parsley or other leafy veggies in the cage to snack on. You can make your own mix of rat food with organic raw nuts and organic puffer rice cereal if you desire, they only need a little bit of this at night. 

However, if they are sick, *mycoplasmas thrive on argine*- an amino acid which is found in coconut, nuts (cashew, almond, hazelnut....), seeds (sunflower, pumpkin, sesame....), wheat germ, buckwheat, granola, oatmeal, chickpeas and cooked soybeans so *AVOID THESE* or completely eliminate it from their diet if they are prone to flair ups!! 

Foods high in *Querectin* are shown to greatly reduce symptoms of myco; black and green tea, onion, apple, red grapes, tomato, broccoli, leafy green veggies, rasperry, cranberry, citrus (not everyday for males), buckwheat and more... include one of these at least in their diet daily, or chop a couple and give a couple tsps a day. 

*Raw garlic* is supposed to do wonders (in humans too); In 1944, a chemist, Dr. Cavallito reported that eating it raw could be morepowerful than penicillin and tetracycline as an antibiotic. (from here.) My mom had a bad cold the other month, so she started putting raw garlic in everything she ate for a week and after a couple days her cold was almost gone!

Foods rich in *vitamins A, C and E *should be given daily. Basically a combination of all fruits and veggies, make tiny fruit salads in the morning and tiny leafy salads with veggies for lunch. If your rats won't eat raw veggies, fry it for justttt a minute in some coconut oil or olive oil. Once they get used to lots of veggies and fruit in their diet, they will start accepting more raw so lightly fry just to change the taste a tad so they will go to raw later on. Ultimately, raw is the best for them, so try that first.
If your rattie is having a really hard time breathing, you can give a tiny chunk (half a chocolate chip) or pure, *organic DARK chocolate* (has to be dark). Dark chocolate contains theophylline which is known to help with breathing troubles. 

*Mataki or turkey tail mushrooms* are amazing and could be used to treat myco. Rich in minerals, fibers and amino acids. Contain powerful antioxidants. 

*Echinacea, eucalyptus, dandelion*, can all be used to treat myco also. You should do research yourself to determine which one you think would be best. Some people say they're harmful to rats, some don't. I believe if we can eat it, they can too..so it's up to you! Give small amounts daily or one leaf a week. Not sure the dosage but this seems to be the average.

One of the most common causes of a myco flair up is a *dirty cage*. Ammonia build up in cages will cause sneezing and can greatly increase myco flairups and makes it a whole lot worse for your little guy to deal with, let alone, get better. *Clean daily and thoroughly wash once a week.* Make sure to use unscented, NATURAL, *nontoxic soaps* when cleaning the cage or hammocks. Rats have very sensitive noses and even if you can't see it, residue from soaps is left behind and gets on your rats and into their systems. I use plain old baking soda and hot water to clean my cage and it works great. 

Also, if you are using *pine or cedar bedding*, this is *TOXIC *for rats. Using bedding like carefresh is ok but I wouldn't recommend. It is made with a profit in mind, not your rats. Rats are so tiny and low to the floor that all that dust that comes from the bedding goes straight into their lungs and can cause or worsen myco. I use any fabric or old clothes I have and cut it to fit the size or my cage floors. If your rats will pull up fabric, hold it in place with binder clips. You'll need to change the fabric daily, just pop it in the wash with some baking soda. *Store bought bedding also carries mites *and other bugs that are NOT fun to get rid of.. My rats got mites once from carefresh bedding and the constant cleaning, medicine and sad little rats is not worth it. Bedding will sit in warehouses for months, even years, before it gets to the petshop and then sits somemore, that is how bugs get in and lay eggs. Same with food. 

Always keep the *water bottles fresh* and wash at least once a week..dirty water bottles spread myco. 

(FYI- if your rattie is ever sick from blood loss or dehydrated, *coconut water* is a miracle to have around! The other day, my rats got in a fight and one got a nasty tail wound, I had to hold him for one hour and apply pressure cos blood was gushing everywhere. He was so lethargic from blood loss I thought he was going to die, luckily I had some coconut water on hand and since I know it is so good for humans to rehydrate after workouts, I gave him some and within minutes he perked up and was his old self again!  I'm really happy to find tricks like this so just wanted to pass it on. Best brand is C2O.)

If you do end up giving antibiotics, you should give your ratty some yogurt (vegan  with live cultures because antibiotics will kill the good bacteria that they need to get better. Also, dairy will neutralize some antibiotics like doxy, so stay away from that too.

I'm not 100% sure on any of these but I'm certain it will do you good to try. Everything I've listed is natural and should be bought organically if possible (rats immune systems are very sensitive, don't get me started on GMO and pesticides...) I believe plants can be used as medicine and have healing powers we have forgotten about in todays quick-fix society. I am not a nutritionist or anything like that (yet..) I am just a 23 year old vegan that's crazy about my health and my rats, and I want to learn everything I can so I can help all the tiny rats of the world fight this infection in a TASTY, natural way, not by shoving meds down their throats (oh, don't you hate that?). 
*
If you won't eat it, don't let your rats.* That alone will do wonders for your little rat.


*Not everything that is safe for humans is safe for rats. PLEASE do adequate research before trying ANY treatment and make sure there is documented research done on rats and not just on humans. If in doubt, ASK YOUR VET. - Jaguar*


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## tifanyk (Mar 30, 2012)

and p.s. infections and colds in rats spread almost instantly, if he has something contagious and has been in a cage with the others for more than 5 minutes, most likely they have it too. but don't worry, be positive and hopeful. it might not be anything, and it might not be contagious  

don't ever isolate a sick rat from his cage mates for the stated reasons. it will cause unnecessary stress and will make him sicker.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

Colloidal silver is dangerous... I do not recommend it for human use and especially not for use in rats. It is an EXTREMELY outdated medicine with questionable effectiveness, at best. Please do NOT give your rats raw garlic, either.

I don't have a problem with home remedies, however, using them is a risk, because in the time you spend waiting to see if they work (and they usually only work by coincidence), your rat could progress to the point of no recovery. 

I do not agree with abusing antibiotics, however, sometimes they are completely necessary for treating a URI. In my time of rat ownership I've never had a myco flareup/URI that couldn't be kicked with an aggressive Baytril and Doxycycline combo. 

Relapse is pretty much always caused by an improper treatment regime, ie. not the right dose, not frequent enough dosing, or not a long enough dosing period (2 weeks bare minimum). Always double check with us here before starting.

I would try the following:

- Pick up some distilled/RO water at a department store and use a needleless syringe to flush his eye out once or twice a day. You can also use human eye flushing drops (NO STEROIDS). They can get debris stuck under their eyelid that can cause irritation and porphyrin. I am inclined to think this is the problem as only one eye is affected.

- Make sure you are not using a dusty bedding ie. Carefresh or aspen... use fleece, newspaper, paper towels, etc. and see if it clears up. 

- You can also leave some standing water around the cage to increase humidity, or buy a cool air humidifier for their room. 

- I would also suggest dusting and vacuuming but be careful not to stir more dust up into the air while doing it.


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