# in need of some advice!



## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

So I was searching craigslist to find a potential friend for my current hairless rat,
and I came across a man who was selling blue dumbos and rexes.
I got very excited because I originally wanted a rex (or a double rex).
Anyway, he later told me some of the tails of his rat's are cropped, and other's aren't.
I was completely appalled and didn't know whether I should give him a quick scolding about how terrible it is, and buy a rat with a tail,
or if I should scold him and not buy a rat from him at all...
The problem is is that I can't find ANYONE else who is selling baby rats in my area =[

please give me some insight!
thank you!!


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## JessyGene (Feb 27, 2012)

cropped tails?!?! That's horrible! I didn't know people did that. Can you find a shelter that you could adopt from? I wouldn't want to support the guy, but I know how much it hurts to see a rat living alone and being unable to get him/her a companion. I hope you can find one. Have you tried posting ads, or checking shelters like SPCA?


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## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

I check shelters and they have guinea pigs, rabbits, and ferrets. 
I had a bad experience with introducing a male rat to my current rat,
so I'm looking for a baby - and shelters won't have babies =/
It's quite the conundrum... I feel like I should get those poor rats out of such a bad situation.
I dunno.


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## JessyGene (Feb 27, 2012)

Some shelters do take in pregnant rats, and baby rats. I'm getting 2 babies from the SPCA next week (I've been looking for a companion for my single rat for 3 months). But it could take awhile, and maybe the ones near you don't. That situation does really suck though. Maybe there are some people on this forum that live close to you that know of some rats that need homes?


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## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

Yeah I'm going to check/post in a second.
Maybe tomorrow I'll call the shelters to see if they take in rats. Meh.


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## 1a1a (May 6, 2011)

Ask him why he crops tail? Tell him that's like cutting off a human's toes and expecting them to function normally!


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## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

His response was "Some people don't like the tail - they're scared of it. To each their own"

............wtf


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## Lovely Rats (May 14, 2012)

Sorry, but I fail to see the problem here :/ (I'll be kicked out of rat forum SO quickly for this!) I mean, we do it with dogs all the time! Boxers, Dobermans, Min Pins, Yorkies, Spaniels; you name it. We do the same with ears, such as with Great Danes, Dobermans, Boston Terriers, and Boxers. In fact, dew claws are clipped off when they are puppies. It isn't any different on a rat. Many rats have their tails broken and they have to be removed, and it doesn't seem to greatly effect them. As long as the docking is done professionally the rats should be fine. And if you think it will disable their ability to climb, I have to say that my Manx cat is the best tree climber I've ever seen.


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## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

He's some hillbilly back end breeder.. so I'm 99% sure it's not done professionally.


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## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

I thought that way too at first, but they really do use their tails for almost everything, not just balance. I'm kind of torn.


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## A.ngelF.eathers (Jul 6, 2011)

Lovely Rats said:


> As long as the docking is done professionally the rats should be fine. And if you think it will disable their ability to climb, I have to say that my Manx cat is the best tree climber I've ever seen.


You're lucky to find a vet that will crop/dock a dog. 
I highly doubt an ethical vet out there will remove something vital to a creature that does not HAVE to be removed. They NEED their tails for balance, to regulate their temperature, for language, etc. Dogs also use their ears and tails for language and when you take that from them they have a harder time communicating with other dogs. Dew claws on dogs are not necessary and can even be dangerous, as they can't be controlled and often get snagged on things and can rip from the dog or otherwise harm them. 

There are plenty of people out there who crop and dock with scissors and knives and rubber bands. I've heard of people using hedge clippers and everything else to remove parts of a creature to make it sell for more or look tougher. I know plenty of people who will tie rubber bands around kittens' tails when their born so that the tails will die then people will want them more than they would a tailed cat.
in the case of manx cats, I have owned many, many, and known many manxes. This is a breed of cat that is born without a tail, and has adapted to life without tails. They're lean and agile and intelligent. Cat breeds which are bred to have tails, should they born without them or have them removed will have a harder time adjusting to life as a cat without a tail.

Originally, when dog's ears and tails were clipped, it was for a working purpose, now it's aesthetic. but you'll never hear of a rat having it's tail cut for a purpose because there is no purpose.
If this man has truly docked his rats, then he's probably done it with a rubber band or scissors.

That's the problem.

and while I'm at it, not trying to be rude here, but you should probably give some credit to DianePhotos for that picture of Arkanys you're using.


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## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

​well said ^

I also decided not to adopt from him - I don't want to support that. 
I guess my search for a companion rat continues!
If anyone knows of a rex rat breeder in the Orlando, please contact me =]


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## A.ngelF.eathers (Jul 6, 2011)

It's probably for the best. Someone who docks their own animals (be it rats or dogs, etc) can't be a decent breeder. 

And re-reading my post, I didn't mean it to be half as rude and harsh as it came off.


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## Afwife83 (Mar 28, 2012)

A.ngelF.eathers said:


> It's probably for the best. Someone who docks their own animals (be it rats or dogs, etc) can't be a decent breeder.
> 
> And re-reading my post, I didn't mean it to be half as rude and harsh as it came off.


I don't think it was rude or harsh, it was factual, heartfelt and TRUE!


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## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

Agreed ^
I'm glad I decided not to go with him, because AngelFeathers you're absolutely right..
I guess I let my EXTREME WANT of a rex ratty get in the way of my common sense lol.
thanks guys


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## Lovely Rats (May 14, 2012)

aang said:


> He's some hillbilly back end breeder.. so I'm 99% sure it's not done professionally.


Was that reply for me, or-?


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## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

Oh, I'm not sure. I think just in general lol


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## 1a1a (May 6, 2011)

I forgot about heat regulation, lovely rats, docking a rat's tail is like cutting off a human's toes and taking away the ability to sweat. Can you report that guy to the rspca?!


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## shawnalaufer (Aug 21, 2011)

THAT APPALLING!  RATS HAVE TAILS!! DON'T LIKE IT? GET A FREAKING HAMSTER! 
I am all for trying to advocate rats and what a joy they are as pets to "non-rat people" or those that think rats are disgusting, plague and flea ridden vermin, who most of them either can't get past that bad reputation...or that tail. But to cut it off?!  Grrrr...I am just going to leave it at that...too much profanity could just come pouring out......
Shame on this man for thinking this is a wise practice and shame on the people who turn to him because of it!!!


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## Lovely Rats (May 14, 2012)

A.ngelF.eathers said:


> And re-reading my post, I didn't mean it to be half as rude and harsh as it came off.


That's okay  I'm from the world of dogshows and I must say, some of the things they do to the poor dogs is just plain cruel. Ever seen a German Shepard walk? The walk on their heels, and it hurts their hips. Also, I gave credit in my Signature ^^


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## A.ngelF.eathers (Jul 6, 2011)

Lovely Rats said:


> Ever seen a German Shepard walk? The walk on their heels, and it hurts their hips.


Off topic here, but just recently the Kennel Club has changed the standard for the GSD. I sincerely hope that the rest of the dog showing world will follow suit and soon we will see a change in these dogs. 
So, yes, I have and it makes me sick that these deformed dogs win awards. They're paraded around and inbred and grow even more and more deformed. It seems like the ones who are clearly the most distorted and in the most pain are the ones sought after. I dunno, but when a dog can't run, and can just barely walk because it's hocks are swiveling beneath it, there's a problem. 

Theres my off topic rant for today.


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## petratts (Feb 14, 2012)

cutting off the body parts of any animal is wrong. animals are not property. just because people do it does not make it right. rat tails are very important for balance and for regulating their temprature. of course a rat can live with no tail. but it is not a good life. and their life would be made infinity better if their tail was not removed. i dont think anyone should cut the tails or ears of dogs. but the tail of a rat is much more important to the rat then the tail of a dog is to a dog.


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## Pushka (May 27, 2012)

I always feel like I need to rescue certain animals but from breeders etc, I end up looking at it like.. it doesn't really stop them, it just makes them breed more! I wouldn't get one from this guy. I think I would end up wanting to take them all!! Tricky situation!


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## ratjes (Mar 26, 2011)

Docking a rat's tail is a useless and even more cruel as any other form of animal mutilation aka cropping/docking. They need their tail for balance and heat regulation. It is animal abuse according to Webster (= physical maltreatment ). So how about rat breeders that breed for tailless rats (born tailless)? I personally have decided not to buy rats from her anymore.
As for the German Shepherds; after about twenty years of searching I found a pup from parents that look normal (but not according the AKC standard) with nice temperament. Only the show German Shepherd people are not speaking to me and I consider that a compliment on how my dog's looks and moves.
Check out this video: Extreme dog breeding - YouTube


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Can you report them for animal abuse?


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## Rat lover (Dec 28, 2011)

aang said:


> ​well said ^ I also decided not to adopt from him - I don't want to support that. I guess my search for a companion rat continues!If anyone knows of a rex rat breeder in the Orlando, please contact me =]


 well I just wAnt to point out that in my opinion you made the right choice. I myself would not want a rat with no tail because their tails are almost essential for life and I think it is cruel to alter any part of an animal.


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## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

He would have sold me a rat with a tail.. I wouldn't have gotten a rat without a tail - ain't about that.
I ended up telling him to screw off because I didn't like what he was doing and wasn't going to support him.
I found another breeder, and am now getting a Velveteen Blue Russian boy.

Also, I think adopting from breeders is wrong. I know I'm being extremely hypocritical here, but I have talked to many people and just don't have any other choices. 
I attempted to adopt first, but that didn't go well and my hairless rat ended up getting torn up by the boy I rescued.
People should always adopt when it comes to dogs and cats, especially!! Those poor animals get put down left and right in shelters for no reason other than overpopulation. It's extremely wrong!


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## A.ngelF.eathers (Jul 6, 2011)

Rat lover said:


> I think it is cruel to alter any part of an animal.


So do you think neutering and spaying is cruel? Because that's the removal of necessary organs. 





aang said:


> Also, I think adopting from breeders is wrong. I know I'm being extremely hypocritical here, but I have talked to many people and just don't have any other choices.
> I attempted to adopt first, but that didn't go well and my hairless rat ended up getting torn up by the boy I rescued.
> People should always adopt when it comes to dogs and cats, especially!! Those poor animals get put down left and right in shelters for no reason other than overpopulation. It's extremely wrong!


It's not adopting, it's buying, and buying from a responsible breeder isn't necessarily wrong. When buying from someone who cares about what they're doing, you are supporting the responsible breeding or healthy, well socialized, well cared for pet or show animals.


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