# Not an Accidental Litter, But..



## Fraido

I've got two little baby rats, feeders that didn't get eaten. It's from where I work, and they don't place live feeders back in with mommy, they leave them in with the snake "just in case" the snake decides it is going to eat it. Too many times have I gone in one day to find a poor little dead rat pup in the tubs after a few days, so I've taken a couple in that clearly weren't going to be eaten.
I think they are both pretty well the same age, but one has a much less shaky walk going on, which makes me believe he/she might be a day or two older. I don't work with the rats, or feed them to the snakes most times, so I can't know for sure how old they are. Their eyes are open, they sort of poop on their own (at least the the "younger" one kind of managed a runnier poop). I took one home yesterday (Monday), and the other one today. 
I have them set up in a plastic tub with a red heat lamp, keeping them at 95ish. (It fluctuates only a little bit.) I have checked the thermometer regularly, and have not seen it reach 100. I have read that they should be 100-102, and no higher, but they aren't pinkys and they're doing fine.
Until Thursday, I will not have the appropriate formula, as I will then be able to purchase human soy infant powdered formula. And for the first 24 hours I have been giving them dilute sugar water (1/4 teaspoon of salt, 3/4 teaspoon of sugar, 1 cup of hot water), because the formula I do have right now is liquid formula (which must be discarded after 48 hours, so I need it to last me until Thursday). I will begin feeding them the formula tomorrow, quite possibly tonight. So that leads to my question;
How do I go about feeding a liquid formula? 
I know with the powdered you dilute it for the first couple feedings to allow the rat to adjust. Would that be the same with the liquid? I know it says you must add water anyways, so I add a little more water? A specific example of a mixture that I could do would be helpful (1 teaspoon of ??, 1/3 teaspoon of ??, etc).
Thanks in advance!


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## Hey-Fay

Take the lamp out pronto! At 95 degrees fahrenheit they will cook to death. Rat's can't handle temps of 85 or higher. If their eyes are open and they're pooing on their own then get some oxbow young rat and mouse food and soak it in the formula. 
Offer a water bottle as well. Put some scraps of old tee shirts or something of that nature for them to nest in, they'll keep each other warm. If you don't have any rat food then offer bread sopped in the formula. Can you post photos of them so I can try an guess their age. If you can get a good photo of their genitales I'll see about sexing them.


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## Fraido

They're really messy right now, I need to wipe them down, the place where I work puts blood on them to entice the snakes. I will attempt some genital photos, I need to wipe there as well, because they're a little poopy.
I read something from someone who's supposed to be kind of an expert regarding rats, and I had read that the heat lamp was necessary, but I'll take it away. My room does get to the low 70's though.
Do you need different angled photos? Face photos?


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## Fraido

I only see the one photo, are there two there?


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## mimsy

I only see one picture. I'm guessing he's about 2-3 weeks. If you don't have formula right now, do you have any dog or cat food that you could soak in soy or almond milk if you have it-if not even just some water or heavy cream? They should be able to lap it themselves. Just make it fairly liquidy. they need substance.


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## Fraido

Okay, well this picture is of the other one.

I have dog and cat food, adult though, I might have kitten food if that's better. I also don't have any kind of milk except for your regular old 2%. But I do have formula, just not the formula I would like. It's Enfamil infant formula, should I do the same thing with that? Like, do the cat/dog food, or the bread?
The one that I believe is older was chewing on a small piece of potato from my dinner, slowly, but he/she enjoyed it. So if I'm mixing the formula with the dog/cat food or the bread, I am making it mushy?
Should I still invest in the powdered formula I plan to get on Thursday?


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## Hey-Fay

Yes use the formula you have for now. Soak the cat/dog food and a little of the soggy bread. They look right at two weeks and do need to be fed the formula. So you have a small tipped paint brush that clean? You can attempt to feed them like that since it's like nursing from mummy. They'll need to be fed every hour to two hours, attempt with the brush first but if they don't get it then try with the bread or kibble, and wipe their bums before and after each feeding to help them defecate and urinate. These guys are still way too young to be away from mummy so try and stimulate being a foster mum as best you can. If you happen to have a nursing mum around then I would try to get her to foster them, they'll have a better shot at making it with a rattie mummy.


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## nanashi7

They look right around 2.5 wks

Yep, make a mushy soft sort of meal that has plenty of liquid to lap up. They'll be eating soon so you don't need to syringe feed too much. I would dilute the liquid as well as the powder to allow for adjusting. 

A heating pad under half of their container is a good way to offer warmth if they want it. They can crawl away from it if it's too hot. Only offer it on low.


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## Fraido

I've been using some sort of dropper to feed them, it seems to be going well.
If I had a nursing rat, I certainly would have placed them with her. :I I have been stimulating, but all I've been getting are pees.
Should I still warm up the formula to do this?


Edit:
They can easily crawl away from the heat lamp to be cool if they need to, but if you guys think I should remove it, I will.


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## Hey-Fay

Yes still warm the formula, cold foods are hard on babies bellies. I still stand firm on removing the lamp, the plastic bin they're in retains heat and they can easily overheat. With the heating pad the heat is more even and will rise as where a lamp is shining down on them. 
They should start to poo soon after they've gotten some food in them, if I personally were in your position I would keep wiping them for a good 5-10 minutes. A corner of a wet, warm washcloth works well. Cotton balls will probably work too, I've just had the best luck with the cloth.


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## Fraido

Thanks for the help, guys. I'll let you know how things turn out.


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## Ilovemybabyrats

So amazing that you saved their lives Hoping they stay strong and healthy


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## Fraido

Me too . ^-^


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## Hey-Fay

I have a good feeling that they'll make it, they sound like little troopers. Thank you for taking them in and giving them a shot at life, you're a wonderful person!


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## Fraido

Y'all give me confidence!


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## Fraido

Big full bellies! They seem to prefer to have the formula in a small dish with the bread and cat food. I have to go to school still, and so I leave the dish in there and the bread and formula is totally gone when I get home, and some of the cat food gets scattered lol.
It's incredibly amusing to watch them wrestle hahaha.


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## Fraido

Too fat?


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## Hey-Fay

Yay!! This is excellent news!! 
When you get the chance you need to buy some young rat food, Oxbow is the best on the market. I'll post a link so you know what to look for; they need to be switched to it soaked in the formula. Once they're a bit bigger you can stop soaking them but they're going to need to be on the young rat and mouse food till they're four months old. 

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=26557


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## Hey-Fay

Fraido said:


> Too fat?


They do look a little round but it could be that they're still adjusting to the new foods. Are they pooping yet?


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## Fraido

It's only the one pup that's super round, the other one looks 'normal'. I'm not sure which one it is, but one of them has pooped out tiny little what I think is solid-squishy turds twice now. The other has had runnier poops. Neither has gone while I was stimulating, but I will continue to try.


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## Hey-Fay

Runny and wet poops can be due to change of diet. They should go back to normal after a few days. Keep an eye on the bloated one; I don't want to scare you but you need to read this: http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?39504-Megacolon-and-High-White-Information

If you suspect that one has it you need to speak to Finnebon, she has two MC ratties that she's had since their birth. They're over a year old now, so there is hope!


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## nanashi7

S/he doesn't look too fat or round to me. If the bloat doesn't go away before the next feeding id be concerned but before then it might just be a full stomach previously empty.


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## mimsy

I'm so happy to hear they are doing well. They are very lucky to have found you. Hopefully the bloat is just a normal thing. Keep up the great work.


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## Fraido

I was indeed thinking about that, and worrying slightly. I was also worrying that it could be an 'air bloat', which I read could only be dealt with by using a needle to get that air out.. :/ But I will keep an eye out, and if in a few days it has not gotten better, or if in a couple days it seems to have worsened, I will contact that person. Knowing they were feeder rats, and they're albino, I can see that happening, and will do my best not to get overly attached.. Just in case.


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## Fraido

mimsy said:


> I'm so happy to hear they are doing well. They are very lucky to have found you. Hopefully the bloat is just a normal thing. Keep up the great work.


Agreed! Thank you.


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## Fraido

nanashi7 said:


> S/he doesn't look too fat or round to me. If the bloat doesn't go away before the next feeding id be concerned but before then it might just be a full stomach previously empty.


It's difficult to get the little rattie to stay still for a good picture, but it's decently big and round. Especially compared to the other little guy. It could just be a full belly, because I believe that little one had been left in there for a day, so he might have just eaten ALOT (as I leave a dish with the formula and catfood/bread in there for them to eat while I am in school). Hoping for the best!


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## Fraido

Bloated baby left this on my finger, what a lovely gift, even without stimulation!


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## mimsy

Looks like a reasonably normal poo! Gratz! ;P


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## Fraido

Lmao.;p Because that's the bloated baby, that actually pleases me, lol.


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## Hey-Fay

That looks like a healthy poop! I agree with Nanashi, it's probably due to an empty stomach. I just thought I'd give the MC info just in case


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## Fraido

Hey-Fay said:


> That looks like a healthy poop! I agree with Nanashi, it's probably due to an empty stomach. I just thought I'd give the MC info just in case


It is much appreciated, and understandable.  Especially given they're albino!


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## Fraido

They are excellent runners now! They also seem to be getting quite good at pooing on their own! 
Bloated baby doesn't seem as round anymore, but the other one appears to be packin' some grams as well now. Makes me think they're probably just both getting fat, lol.


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## Hey-Fay

That's good news! Again, it's probably due to change of diet. You can stop wiping them now that they're going on their own. Still give them the formula mixed with lab blocks, or kibble if you haven't gotten the Oxbow. You can still set a saucer of formula out for them, it'll benefit them and help bulk them up. You can also scramble an egg, no salt or pepper, and give them that occasionally as its high in protein. Is the bin cage you've got them well ventilated? If not i recommend you buy some hardware cloth, cut both sides out and zip tie the hardware cloth to the open sides. This should be a temporary cage only, once they're bigger they need to be upgraded to a proper cage.


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## Fraido

Hey-Fay said:


> That's good news! Again, it's probably due to change of diet. You can stop wiping them now that they're going on their own. Still give them the formula mixed with lab blocks, or kibble if you haven't gotten the Oxbow. You can still set a saucer of formula out for them, it'll benefit them and help bulk them up. You can also scramble an egg, no salt or pepper, and give them that occasionally as its high in protein. Is the bin cage you've got them well ventilated? If not i recommend you buy some hardware cloth, cut both sides out and zip tie the hardware cloth to the open sides. This should be a temporary cage only, once they're bigger they need to be upgraded to a proper cage.


The plastic tub they are in has no top on it, it's tall enough right now that they can't jump out of it, and it will do until tomorrow when I go to my mothers. I have cages there from years ago when I had my rats, I loved them, they all passed on due to tumors. When they're larger, I have a cage there that is bigger that they will probably love, they're too small at the moment for it.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure if I can keep them. I may just have to give them away, as the family I live with doesn't want anymore animals in the house, the only one who knows about them is my dad lol. I think he likes them, he's the one who decided to get me rats when I was younger.. Although, SAD STORY, the two rats he got me eventually had babies and one time when they were probably a little bit older than the two I have right now, he told me that they needed to come out of my room that night. I obliged of course, and the next morning when I was looking in the freezer for something to eat, I opened a can and found them. It was sad! He had a snake though.


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## Jess <3

Fraido said:


> one time when they were probably a little bit older than the two I have right now, he told me that they needed to come out of my room that night. I obliged of course, and the next morning when I was looking in the freezer for something to eat, I opened a can and found them. It was sad! He had a snake though.


Oh God, that's awful! 

It's a shame that you might have to re-home your two little guys as well since you've been taking such good care of them, i hope you get to keep them and if not, that they go to a really good home.


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## Fraido

Jess <3 said:


> Fraido said:
> 
> 
> 
> one time when they were probably a little bit older than the two I have right now, he told me that they needed to come out of my room that night. I obliged of course, and the next morning when I was looking in the freezer for something to eat, I opened a can and found them. It was sad! He had a snake though.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh God, that's awful!
> 
> It's a shame that you might have to re-home your two little guys as well since you've been taking such good care of them, i hope you get to keep them and if not, that they go to a really good home.
Click to expand...

It was quite upsetting! I used to leave their cage open at the end of my bed and sleep with all of them. I ended up with four in the end, two boys and two girls! Honey, Holly, Boog, and Wilson. Wilson was a big boy!

I don't know if I'll be able to part with them, I've missed my rats so much since I started working where I am, every now and then I'll find a loose rat and pick it up to return it to it's tub, and it's so nostalgic! (However that is spelt, lol.)


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## Hey-Fay

That's horrible! I do hope you can keep them but if not then be sure to post on the adoptions part of the forum. Get some photos of their genitals and we'll try and sex them. If they are mixed genders what will you do? Spay or neuter one or perhaps rehome one and get a same sex companion for the one you keep?


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## Fraido

Hey-Fay said:


> That's horrible! I do hope you can keep them but if not then be sure to post on the adoptions part of the forum. Get some photos of their genitals and we'll try and sex them. If they are mixed genders what will you do? Spay or neuter one or perhaps rehome one and get a same sex companion for the one you keep?


I'm not too sure if there's a vet around where I live that spays or neuters, it's something I think I would look into. How much is it generally?
I can keep them in separate cages, like I did with my four. That was successful. Or I may just rehome one of them then look into getting a pretty little rat.

I will get some pictures, but that is much easier to do when you're not a one person team, lol. When I go to my mom's with my boyfriend, I'll have him help me. Unfortunately, I won't have internet there to post the pictures, so it'll have to wait until Sunday.


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## Hey-Fay

I'm not sure where you're at, but I'm in MI. My vet is in Utica, an office visit is 38.00, meds usually run 20.00 and spays/ neuters are about 115.00.

Here's a link to vets in the states, hopefully one is near you:http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?39485-Exotic-Veterinarian-List-amp-Info

If you keep both and they do turn out to be mixed genders then separation would be best. But be sure you get them both a same sex companion, they need friends!


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## Fraido

Hey-Fay said:


> I'm not sure where you're at, but I'm in MI. My vet is in Utica, an office visit is 38.00, meds usually run 20.00 and spays/ neuters are about 115.00.
> 
> Here's a link to vets in the states, hopefully one is near you:http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?39485-Exotic-Veterinarian-List-amp-Info
> 
> If you keep both and they do turn out to be mixed genders then separation would be best. But be sure you get them both a same sex companion, they need friends!


I live in Canada, lol. But you've given me a good idea as to what I'd probably have to pay. 
I've attached a picture of one the the ratsm genitals. They both appear to be the exact same. But I will attach photos of both tomorrow.


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## Hey-Fay

That's a boy, congratulations! Definitely post a picture of the other one just to be sure. 

Vet's usually run pretty high, I was just lucky enough to find one that didn't cost an arm and a leg. Keep looking for one, and be sure to research any vets you find.


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## Fraido

I'm not sure which one I had originally posted, so I'm posting both. Don't mind the little bit of poo stuck to Timothy's tail, lol. Hopefully it's a boy, or I'll hafta change his name. I call the other one Murlow.


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## Hey-Fay

Looks like they're both boys! In a week or so you'll be able to tell if they're boys because their testes will drop. Another way to tell is if they've got nipples. Only girls have nipples.


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## Fraido

Looks like no nipples to me. Looks like I got lucky!


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## Hey-Fay

Whoo hoo!


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## Fraido

One of the babies does this really weird thing where he appears to be choking when he eats. I don't understand it. I've even watched him as he's trying to bite a chunk off of something, and he starts doing it, but he hasn't even gotten anything! It really confuses me, and I don't know what's wrong. He also has crooked teeth, like, fairly crooked teeth. Could he have sensitive teeth and it just hurts? I've seen him do it when he's licking up formula as well, though. :/


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## Hey-Fay

Teeth should be a nice yellow or orange color. Here's a link to malocclusion in rats, look at all the photos there then show me which one looks closest to his teeth.

http://ratguide.com/health/figures/malocclusion_figure_1.php

http://ratguide.com/health/figures/malocclusion_figure_3.php

http://ratguide.com/health/figures/malocclusion_figure_4.php

http://ratguide.com/health/figures/malocclusion_figure_5.php

If his teeth are crooked or long that may be why he's doing that. If they're long or crooked they need to be trimmed


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## Fraido

I tried to get a picture, don't mind his face. He enjoyed some spaghetti with me.


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## nanashi7

Unfortunately, his tooth is much too crooked. A vet will need to clip them. 

Don't worry about color as the yellowing doesn't occur until they're fully weaned.


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## Fraido

Hmm.. I'll have to find a way to come up with the money for a vet trip.


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## Hey-Fay

Nanashi's correct, they need to be trimmed asap. He cant eat solid foods like that. Put him on a mushy baby food diet till they can be trimmed. Keep giving the formula for a while, you can soak the lab blocks in it so it'll be mushy and easier to eat.


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## Fraido

Thanks guys, I will get him to the vet for a trim as soon as I can.


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## Fraido

I now have five little ratties in my adorable group.


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## Fraido

Cuties. There's some colour variety now, lol.


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## Hey-Fay

Oh goodness! They're precious! Are you certain that they're all male?


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## Fraido

I am unsure as of this moment, they all came from my work again. Checking now! I'll post pics, too.


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## Hey-Fay

More lucky feeders that were rejected as lunch?


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## Fraido

Yeppers! From what I have determined, one is definitely a girl, as the two holes are much closer togeter compared to the males. One I am unsure of, as it is clearly a little bit younger than the others, I would post pictures but it is difficult with one person, pics to come soon! I am also positive that one is a boy.
So I have the two boys from last week, one new male, one new female, and one I am unsure of.


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## Hey-Fay

As soon as the photos are up we'll confirm the genders! Will you spay the girls or just move them into another cage?


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## nanashi7

I know it's hard but be careful not to rescue every poor baby. You could use your time and energy better to explain the wrong business practice to your boss. 

I only bring it up because you don't want to get swamped with vet bills later or an accidental litter due to mixed genders.


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## Hey-Fay

I agree with Nanashi, you can't save them all. I have to tell myself that very same line every time I see one. It breaks my heart that I can't take them all, and believe me if I could I would have hundreds by now. But limited funds, expensive vet bills, food, bedding and toys keep me from taking any more in. Rat's are not cheap pets. I've spent thousands on my mischief, my latest buy being a 280.00 dollar cage. 
We don't want to discourage you from rescuing them, we just want to give you the advice that we wish we were given when we started out.


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## Fraido

Hey-Fay said:


> As soon as the photos are up we'll confirm the genders! Will you spay the girls or just move them into another cage?


I'm hoping there's only the one girl, I would be much more willing to spay if it's only one. But if I don't end up rehoming them, I will have them in separate cages until I can do the spays. Photos should be up on Sunday, although I will continue to try for the next two days, lol.


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## Fraido

I know, I know. I've made it clear to myself that I cannot take anymore in. It's upsetting, but it's necessary. 
Though, it has given me a great excuse for bringing rats back into my life again, I've missed mine so dearly!


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## Hey-Fay

Looking forward to the photos! 
I couldn't work where you work, I don't think I'd be able to stop myself from bringing the whole store home :/


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## Fraido

Hey-Fay said:


> Looking forward to the photos!
> I couldn't work where you work, I don't think I'd be able to stop myself from bringing the whole store home :/


It's not really a store. Haha. It's a place that supplies feeder insects and rodents to stores, breeders, and what-not. They also sell snakes, and other rodents (hamsters, gerbils, etc.), along with other reptiles and amphibians. 
So I don't really get to see the rats, only when pups are brought in to me to feed the snakes. :s It's quite sad, I have snakes of my own though, but I don't feed them live.
I also don't actually work there, I'm there for co-op for school.

Because it's easier, and I adore them, I'll post some random pictures of them.


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## Fraido

I just noticed today that the one rat, the most definitely a female one, she squeeks very often when I pick her up, or when another rat walks over her or tries to play with her. It's like she's injured, but she doesn't act injured, just the squeeking. She runs around and stuff, it looks normal, she does everything normally. I think she may just be a mouthy little rat. 
It kind of seems to mostly be her tail right now, like it's more sensitive than the others. I gently put pressure on the base of her tail, certainly not enough to hurt, and she squeeks, none of the others do.


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## Hey-Fay

She should stop once you establish a bond and she trusts you. I would separate her from the boys just to prevent oops liters. They become sexually mature at six weeks and if she were to get pregnant it would more than likely be a death sentence. If you can see the boys jewels it's better to just separate them. Take the other one you assume to be female and separate it too. Be sure to post photos so we can be sure on sexes!


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## Fraido

I discovered the real issue, she has clearly been backed up for a while, unable to poop. Her bumb was really crusty, old poop on there. I took her and gave her a bath, slowly working away at getting that crusty stuff off, and that hole was very large. Like, it is open, and I can see inside. Her tail had also ripped from her skin a little bit from it. I am positive it was the fact that she was backed up that caused her bum to be like this, she pooped out a lot of little rat turds after I cleared the area out. Keeping an eye on her.
My dad said he's going to keep one for sure, and he chose her. He said it would keep her away from the males, haha.


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## Fraido

It's really strange, she is clearly in pain, and the area is very swollen/inflamed, the area around it is hard. I can see poop that needs to come out, but I don't know how to get it to actually do so. The area is very sensitive.


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## Elliemay

I'm sure I probably missed this but how old is she? Is she weened? It may not work the same for rats and mice, but I had a little unweened mouse and you would have to stimulate her so she could go to the bathroom. I would very gently lay her on her back and take a warm wet q-tip and rub in gently in small circles around her girly areas and bum. It would help her go almost instantly.


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## Hey-Fay

Frado, message Finnebon, she can tell you exactly what to do in this situation. If it's MC she's a special needs girl who has to be carefully taken care of for the rest of her life. If she doesn't have MC remember that rats need companions so if your father does take her, be sure that she gets a same sex friend. I would give her some oily foods, veggies cooked in olive oil or even straight up butter. It should help lubricate and help here pass it. 

Elliemay, everyone's weaned and can poo on their own but they're still being given formula for nutrition as they were all taken away from mummy to soon.


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## Fraido

Something tells me it's not megacolon, because she's not big and round or anything. It's literally just around the hole that feels hard. But I will message this person anyway. 

Ellie- weaned, and was once pooing on her own, then somethig is now causing her to be backed up.


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## Hey-Fay

Do we have photos yet? How are everyone?


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## Fraido

One..


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## Fraido

Two.


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## Fraido

Not the third one, but a loose one I found at the place. I'll have a picture of the one I am pretty sure is a girl in a little bit, she needs a bath. I was pretty sure this one was a girl, because it's clearly older than Murlow, and it hasn't dropped. But it's quite a space between the two holes.


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## Fraido

Everybody appears to be doing alright. One has the sneezes, another is making odd sounds so I'm going to be watching it.
Timothy is in a better place now, he was the one with the messed up teeth. He also clearly had a neurological disorder of some sort, he would constantly tremble, he was always shaking. He was also very runty, he wasn't growing like Murlow is, and still looked like a young rat (I know he was, but Murlow looks much more matured, and has for awhile). 
They all quite enjoy romping around.


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## Fraido

They also enjoy cuddling with my cat.


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## Hey-Fay

They all look to me boys to me but I'll get a second opinion. At 19 days their testes should drop and you'll know for certain. 

Has Timothy passed? Also is little girl still backed up?


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## Finnebon

Usually they say a symptom of megacolon is the round bloatedness only after the baby has died. It is round and bloated because it is literally so full of fecal waste, that it most likely died from rupture or cut off of circulation which may have killed the tissues inside causing necrosis, or the extreme amount of waste stuck inside the body would cause sepsis type of poisoning (am no vet, so I hope I'm not misquoting what I have read. This is just what I've come to understand as the actual cause of death due to megacolon). I haven't had a chance to go through this thread yet, but someone let me know you were thinking of a megacolon possibility. Once weaned or as soon as they start nibbling solid foods is usually when you will notice them starting to get backed up or poop is stuck in their butts and doesn't seem to come out, and this may be a symptom of them being born with this condition. It can still develop later in their lives, but they are most likely to have it from birth. Would you like to PM me with any questions? I have 2 rats with MC that have had it since birth who are now 1 year and 4 months old and I noticed the first signs when they were less than 2 weeks old. I can let you know what I do to care for them, or any other ideas I could share with you to help you diagnose a possible issue you could talk to your vet about?


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## Hey-Fay

I forgot to mention that little girls will have a closed opening right under the urethra, it's their vagina. It won't open till about 6 weeks, that's when they have their first heat. Boys wont have anything under their nub.


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## Isamurat

they look like boys to me too, defintily the top two, harder to see on the third. The lack of nipples and vagine should be a lot easier to see in the flesh though.

Please be very very careful about putting your rats on your cat. Neither the cat or rats get anything out of it and even the best behaved preditor can make a mistake which could be fatal. Posting photos can also encourage people to try this who may have less well behaved pets


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## Fraido

Hey-Fay said:


> They all look to me boys to me but I'll get a second opinion. At 19 days their testes should drop and you'll know for certain.
> 
> Has Timothy passed? Also is little girl still backed up?


Timothy has indeed passed, and the little girl doesn't appear to be backed up because she can poop.


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## Fraido

Isamurat said:


> they look like boys to me too, defintily the top two, harder to see on the third. The lack of nipples and vagine should be a lot easier to see in the flesh though.
> 
> Please be very very careful about putting your rats on your cat. Neither the cat or rats get anything out of it and even the best behaved preditor can make a mistake which could be fatal. Posting photos can also encourage people to try this who may have less well behaved pets


I watch them, the rats go to her and cuddle up, she's probably very warm. I'm well aware as to what my cats' capabilities are, I've found the occasional mouse, or part of one, in my house because of them. 
Ocassionally she'll get playful, and try to bat one around. But I end that quickly. Any other time, she's just laying there, sometimes cuddling them. My father's cats, and his birds, are a different story. I trust my cat more than I trust my dad's conure. He already got in my room one day and tried to take off poor Murlow's ear. He's a terrible bird. 
I also have to watch my stupid husky, who can't get it through her head to stay away.

I would hope that it's common sense to people, not to place them together just for the **** of it. I like letting my rats roam around and cuddle and play with me on my bed, just like my cat. And they are watched carefully, my cat gets a small tap on the nose when she gets rough. 

I also somewhat think my rats do get something out of it, they enjoy playing with her, and they lack the fear of cats. Lacking that fear can be good and bad, as they won't fear the other cats that I know would go after them. But they also won't cower in fear and act different just because my cat is in the room.

Sorry this became very long, and probably ranty, but I hope you don't think I'm being rude. .-. You're just being concerned for my ratties, and that's certainly okay! But I have the situation under control.


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## Fraido

I just got home not too long ago, and I see that the little girl has a crusty bum again. *Sigh* It's like it gets so far out, then it hardens there and she can't get the rest out. She probably does have MC. I do not have the money to be taking her into the vet.. and I'm not sure if I'll have the time to help her out properly...

Also, in that post about the cat and rats, the sensored word is this: lleH
Just don't want people thinking I'm some crazy cursor. :s It's nooot the eff word.


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## Hey-Fay

Where are you located in Canada? I'm very close to the border and I may be able to help the little one out. It's a big maybe though, but I'd like to try.


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## Fraido

I don't think I'm very close though, I live 20 or so minutes from Peterborough, ON.


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## Hey-Fay

That's about a six hour drive for me; i don't think i could convince the husband to go on that rode trip Finnebon is still the best person to speak with regarding MC and how to manage it, i highly recommend you send her a message.


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## nanashi7

Post an ad on the adoption board. We have a few members in Ontario who may be able to help.


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## Fraido

I've been messaging Finnebon. The little girl passed away over the weekend.


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## Hey-Fay

That's sad news. How are your other little ones? are we sure on the sex of them all yet?


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## Fraido

It is unfortunate, but I'm glad she is no longer suffering. The rest of them are sneezing, and I am going to try to get them to the vet (at least two them, I'm hoping I'll have enough of the antibiotic to do the four of them) next weekend. They are definitely boys, that is clear now. Haha.
The vet visits are 68 bucks just for an examination, not plus tax. So two is the most my boyfriend can do, because then we have to buy the medication prescribed. *Sigh* Do you think it's possible that there would be enough medication for the four of them?


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## Hey-Fay

Tell your vet that you have two more at home with the same symptoms who need medication. Usually they will give you enough for all four.


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## Fraido

I shall do so, I hope they will.


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## Fraido

Just an update.
They're nine weeks today! (Roughly.) I'm saying their birthdays are Oct. 13th.
They're a lovely bunch, I love them. ^-^ I would upload photos of them, but every time I try to it says I've exceeded my quota by whatever. So. :/


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## mimsy

Go to settings at top right hand of page, then to attachments on bottom left hand column and then checkmark ones that you can delete so you can post new ones. 

Hope to see new pics of the babies.


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## Fraido

Ahhh, thank you!
View attachment 190898

Murlow cuddling with Nugget.
View attachment 190906

Nixon being cute.
View attachment 190914

Reubin.:3


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## Hey-Fay

Aww!! What gorgeous little men they've grown into!!


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## Fraido

They're pretty chunky right now, I think, haha. Especially Reubin. But they're my crazy, spunky babies.
(Not pictured is Choo Choo, and Burbie. Choo choo looks like Murlow, but with more of a beige-ish colour, and he looks as though he has a mask haha. Burbie looks identicle to Murlow, just his nose is brownish.)


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## Grawrisher

They're such cuties!!!!


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## Fraido

Aren't they? ^-^


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## Fraido

Here they are harrassing me because I just got out of the shower and they're obsessed with wet hair, lol.


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