# ... Sighing at craiglist once again.



## haunt (Sep 9, 2012)

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pet/3559405974.html

Look at the size of that cage and he's all alone. It's disgusting. 


Good god, the condition some people keep rats in is absolutely atrocious. I wish I could take him home, but I really don't have any room for any other male rats (or the money to go pick up a rat right now).


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## Muttlycrew (Dec 21, 2012)

That's the cage!!!! Not too far from me there is someone selling FOUR adults rats that are kept in that same cage! 


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## haunt (Sep 9, 2012)

oh god, that's awful. D:


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## Muttlycrew (Dec 21, 2012)

Yeah  if I could afford to drive over there I'd go get at least two of them, I feel horribly for them 


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

I was gunna say the cage is small ish for one... FOUR?!


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## Rumy91989 (Dec 31, 2012)

Oh my gosh! That's terrible! THAT'S A HAMSTER CAGE! That poor rat! And Muttly, you said there were FOUR in a cage that size? That just makes me want to cry...


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

hey, wheres the location where theyre selling four in that cage? i will gladly take one if theyre female... i cant rescue all of them.. 


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## Ivora (Jan 14, 2013)

These days hamster owners agree that cages that size are too small even for most hamsters let alone a rat. They are only appropriate for dwarf hamsters. Some even say Syrian hamsters must be kept in a cage/tank larger than a 10 gallon. It is ridiculous to keep a rat(s) in a cage like that. I hope someone adopts him soon. D:


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## Muttlycrew (Dec 21, 2012)

They're near Portland, OR. 
Yeah, FOUR. The reason I clicked the ad is because 2 of the 4 are hairless so I was going to ask the owner if they ever come to the coast so we could meet somewhere and then I saw the cage and the two rats in it and down below it says "they share the cage with two other rats, but only the hairless ones need to go together"
It made me so sad... Honestly it doesn't take much money ($40?) for me to get there, but I'm still getting over the new FN cage and my dogs e-vet trip. Then she wants $20for the two rats too and I know in total it's not a bunch of money, it's just been a tight few months. 



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## Rattii (Dec 8, 2012)

That is just disgusting. I just hope it's a joke, because no animal - not even a little dwarf hamster - should live in this cage. I just hope someone adopts him, and he goes to a good home. I wish I could.. but I live in England. What can that poor rat do in that cage? Just drink and walk a few steps? The wheel's tiny, and no rodent should run on it as it'll damage them.

Poor thing, one is bad enough. So four? Seriously?! How are they meant to exercise?


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## Muttlycrew (Dec 21, 2012)

I agree that that one kept in the cage is so sad.. Especially since its alone.. It's horrible  


Yeah, I don't know how the four even move around. I've seen that cage at petco and its decent sized for one mouse(I agree that the wheel is too small though) but each level is about 3" or 4" wide... So I don't know how 4 rats are navigating around in it. When I was asking the lady about it she said "the hairless ones are always getting attacked by the other ones. The silly guys are always fighting because they think they need all the space" 
???!?!!!!???!! 
It's sad.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

thats horrible..:\ i think this lady must have no clue about animals, because no one would knowingly torture animals like that... 


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## haunt (Sep 9, 2012)

I ended up contacting them.. Explained I didn't have any money, the cage was too small, and that the type of bedding they were using is toxic to rodents.. I had asked them about it and they said it was a cedar/pine mix.

They aren't responding now. I guess I offended them, though I was nice as possible and just trying to get the rat into better conditions. T_t


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## Muttlycrew (Dec 21, 2012)

That's good that you contacted them, I hope they find the rat a new home or at least improve the conditions.


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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

I have this problem where I want to take all the rats off craigslist. They all look so sad and starved for attention.  My fiance won't let me though. That cage just makes me want to cry. It'd probably be happier in a 10 gallon bin. Can't save em all got to keep telling myself that. I saw this one last night http://dayton.craigslist.org/pet/3555113047.html I'm wondering if that is what they are kept in? Why would it have bedding in it otherwise? :/


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## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

Sad to see such conditions.


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## JessyGene (Feb 27, 2012)

Poor little guy! I rescued a rat in a similar situation (my rat Jimi). He was living alone in a cage even smaller than that on cedar shavings. Needless to say he is MUCH happier living with my 3 females in a double critter nation. I'm glad I was able to help him, but there are so many more that I can't. I try not too look because I know I can't afford any more rats. I hope that rat finds a good home!


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## Eden10 (Aug 11, 2012)

Poor poor guy


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## mistymornings18 (Aug 13, 2012)

Have you guys stopped to think that not everyone is knowledgeable about pet rats and don't honestly realize that this stuff isn't healthy or in the best interest of their rats? Instead of coming on here bashing them and making them out to be Satan why not email them and explain that the cage isn't good for that rat or whatever information you think they're lacking in. Knowledge is power. Posting on this forum about how crappy they are isn't going to help these animals in these living conditions. When I first got my rats (years ago) the pet store person told me that a cage like that one is acceptable for two rats and totally wrong information. I was naïve and didn't realize that pet store workers don't know much a lot of the times. I since learned better and corrected the mistakes. Did the fact I didn't know make me horrible? No, it didn't. I have a very nice lady in a group like this (not this one) to thank for emailing me and letting me know proper ways to own rats. Not everyone is cruel...Not trying to be rude but I just feel like a lot of people in this group are way to judgmental and should take time to educate instead of fussing about how wrong these people are. Not saying that is the case with this particular post just over all something I have noticed in this forum a lot.


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## Korra (Dec 11, 2011)

She did email the person.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

mistymornings18 said:


> Have you guys stopped to think that not everyone is knowledgeable about pet rats and don't honestly realize that this stuff isn't healthy or in the best interest of their rats? Instead of coming on here bashing them and making them out to be Satan why not email them and explain that the cage isn't good for that rat or whatever information you think they're lacking in. Knowledge is power. Posting on this forum about how crappy they are isn't going to help these animals in these living conditions. When I first got my rats (years ago) the pet store person told me that a cage like that one is acceptable for two rats and totally wrong information. I was naïve and didn't realize that pet store workers don't know much a lot of the times. I since learned better and corrected the mistakes. Did the fact I didn't know make me horrible? No, it didn't. I have a very nice lady in a group like this (not this one) to thank for emailing me and letting me know proper ways to own rats. Not everyone is cruel...Not trying to be rude but I just feel like a lot of people in this group are way to judgmental and should take time to educate instead of fussing about how wrong these people are. Not saying that is the case with this particular post just over all something I have noticed in this forum a lot.


First, they did email. That is always the first course of action, but many people are unfortunately stubborn, especially those getting rid of animals that they are no longer interested in. This was just a case of venting, which does have its place.

The entire point of this forum is for new and old owners alike to come learn and share. Sometimes, we just need to get things off our chests. Craigslist is one of those unfortunate places where people go to dump animals and it is heavy on the heart. I won't even click on the pet section of Craigslist any longer because my heart can't take it.


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## Eden10 (Aug 11, 2012)

Not trying to cause offense here, but surely its common sense seeing the size of that rat & the cage hes in that its cruel? Maybe they got the rat as a baby & didn't realize how big they grow...idk!
But, I do know many people are badly mis-informed & genuinely trying to take good care of their pet...however, this ad I think its obvious they just don't care! 
I also avoid looking at the pet section on CL, its horrible seeing all those poor unwanted pets & backyard breeders.


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## haunt (Sep 9, 2012)

mistymornings18 said:


> Have you guys stopped to think that not everyone is knowledgeable about pet rats and don't honestly realize that this stuff isn't healthy or in the best interest of their rats? Instead of coming on here bashing them and making them out to be Satan why not email them and explain that the cage isn't good for that rat or whatever information you think they're lacking in. Knowledge is power. Posting on this forum about how crappy they are isn't going to help these animals in these living conditions. When I first got my rats (years ago) the pet store person told me that a cage like that one is acceptable for two rats and totally wrong information. I was naïve and didn't realize that pet store workers don't know much a lot of the times. I since learned better and corrected the mistakes. Did the fact I didn't know make me horrible? No, it didn't. I have a very nice lady in a group like this (not this one) to thank for emailing me and letting me know proper ways to own rats. Not everyone is cruel...Not trying to be rude but I just feel like a lot of people in this group are way to judgmental and should take time to educate instead of fussing about how wrong these people are. Not saying that is the case with this particular post just over all something I have noticed in this forum a lot.


Okay, fine.. I guess I can see your point here.. but equally, don't you think it's the owners responsibility BEFORE purchasing a pet to do research on it to give it proper care? I'm aware not all people do.. but they should. Yes, there were things I needed to change about the way I took care of my rats in the beginning.. but never did I think it was a good idea to keep a large animal in such a small cage or alone, which was my biggest complaints. :S


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

of course it is...but some people are just really......i don't want to say dumb, but... they ave no concept that animals have feelings/needs... North Americans are pretty good about it (didnt gandhi say something like you can judge the moral progress of a society by how well they treat their animals  ) but in many countries, there are NO advocates for animal welfare... no humane society... the idea is silly to them; people>animals.

what im saying is... if someone is keeping rats like this, and thinks they're "cute" scrapping over limited space, they're probably uninformed, and maybe for whatever reason they have no empathy with how the animals feel. of course, they have to be educated and smarten up... they're still guilty... i just wanted to say that i don't think the person really realizes what they're doing to the little guys... maybe they do, i dont know! heres to hoping they find a better place.... 


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

also... theres a lot of misinformation about rats at pet stores, from both the pet store workers and those little pamphlets sometimes... people think they're like all other small animals.....

also... i swear theres a cedar/pine bedding at petco that, on the label has a picture of a rat :s.... my partner was with me, and i had a hard time explaining that "yes i know theres a picture of a rattie... no, i cant buy the 11$ bedding, i have to buy the expensive stuf.... why? because i guess i know better than the professionals making the bedding about rats respiratory system...? " T___T


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## pocketmouse (Jun 13, 2012)

Muttlycrew - I sent you a PM, I live in Portland and could possibly buy 1 of the rats if they have any girls. That's just heartbreaking to me, I'm sure they can hardly move in a cage that small. Send me a link to the Craigslist ad?


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## Possum Rat (Dec 30, 2012)

I would say that cage _might _be ok for a mouse.


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## ILoveMyMonsters (May 25, 2012)

Oh my lord!

An ex-boyfriend of mine used to have 2 mice in that same cage. I used to gawk at how little floor space it offered them. And these were mice. I can't imagine a RAT, much less four like a previous poster mentioned, living in that tiny thing. Poor little guy. If I had the resources and time I would swoop in to save him myself.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

That's why I said she must have no clue... I mean, growing up as a kid, my parents had no idea how to properly take care of animals. They thought ( old school Italian mentality ) animals are for food. Why do you want it as a pet? If you want it as a pet, it must live outside... Space? It needs that? 

My poor first bunnies didnt have a lot of room ( I have nightmares still about them being sad  )... But... A lot of people just really don't know. Nowadays the Internet helps a bit, but still... Many people just don't know/ think that people "over react" so they don't listen to their suggestions... Sad but true... 


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## Hamsterific (Jan 14, 2013)

This is heartbreaking and disgusting. Firstly, she should never have gotten a rat if she couldn't take a minute to google what a rat cage should look like. Secondly, it does not take a rocket scientist to see that it's WAY to small for one rat let alone four. Although I agree it's bad to be catty and bash strangers, whoever that up does not deserve any slack. If a dog or cat was kept in a tiny little cage where it could barely move people would be screaming animal abuse and hopefully that person would be charged. Shame it's not the same for small animals who deserve as much love and care. Speciesism at it's finest..


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## trematode (Sep 8, 2012)

A lot of people in our society are ignorant. The bad kind of ignorant. In most cases, the owner either grew up taking care of animals a certain way or they believe what other people have told them. They are quick to brush off advice and use many excuses: "We had rats on cedar bedding growing up for our rats. They made out fine." "We'll, I don't have money for a larger cage. They look happy to me." "But this is what the Petco employee suggested I get." 

I volunteered in Central America for two weeks in spay/neuter clinics. People down there were the other kind of ignorant. They did not properly take care of their animals because they honestly did not know what they were doing wrong. They were hesitant to spay and neuter because they saw it as very painful to the animal. A group came to the poor areas to try to help. Through education, they convinced a lot of people to have the pets vetted and not to chain their dogs or let their pets roam. 

The problem with approaching others about their pet care is that you are one person, not a group, and people here normally don't want someone pointing out that what they are doing is wrong.


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## Houdini (Sep 17, 2012)

That cage isn't even sufficent for a mouse. This is the cage I have for my mouse (used to be two) and I'm looking into making it taller, and adding levels. These kinds of cages shouldn't even be made available, nothing could live comfortably inside. Ignornace is bliss, and sadly most people get offended if you question their pet ownership skills. If I was closer I'd snag him, but there's no way I could. I pray someone knowledgable takes him, and not someone who sees it as a good deal (Hey, the rat, bedding and cage are included!) Deeply saddens me to see these kinds of things. 


My mouse cage:


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## Muttlycrew (Dec 21, 2012)

Houdini... I'm confused if you mean the pics you posted are the cage listed, or if the pic you posted is a new cage, but that isn't the same cage..
The cage you posted pictures of is about the same height but almost twice as long as the one first listed in the this post.


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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

I've thought at times about making a pamphlet to attach to the front of the rat cages at the local pet stores (if they'd let me) that gives information about caring for your rats and links to helpful sites. I'll be honest when we got our rat Ada it was just a spur of the moment thing. We went to the pet store to get some cat food and my fiance was looking at all the ferrets and what not. Then somehow we left with a rat. I didn't want any small pets. I was thinking of when I was little and I had a hamster I lost interest in. Well he got a rat anyways. So we get home and he does a little online research on keeping rats and decides that she needs a friend. We didn't realize how big they were going to get so we kept them in a 10 gal fish tank with a metal topper that was the same size as a 10 gal tank. We used the wrong bedding and gave them kaytee because that's what the pet store said to do! We even picked Ada up by her tail!!!! We thought it was okay because the lady at the pet store said we could. We slowly started learning things about them. I made him change the bedding and we got them a larger cage off craiglist. I feel bad because we learned about them as they grew so they didn't get the best care for the first five months or so but now they are two very happy rats. They trained us to love them and want to make them happy. I wish their would have been a pamphlet that I could take home that was free and told me how to take care of my rats. 


I'd throw something together but I doubt they'd let me put it up.


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## Ruka (Dec 20, 2012)

zurfaces said:


> I've thought at times about making a pamphlet to attach to the front of the rat cages at the local pet stores (if they'd let me) that gives information about caring for your rats and links to helpful sites. I'll be honest when we got our rat Ada it was just a spur of the moment thing. We went to the pet store to get some cat food and my fiance was looking at all the ferrets and what not. Then somehow we left with a rat. I didn't want any small pets. I was thinking of when I was little and I had a hamster I lost interest in. Well he got a rat anyways. So we get home and he does a little online research on keeping rats and decides that she needs a friend. We didn't realize how big they were going to get so we kept them in a 10 gal fish tank with a metal topper that was the same size as a 10 gal tank. We used the wrong bedding and gave them kaytee because that's what the pet store said to do! We even picked Ada up by her tail!!!! We thought it was okay because the lady at the pet store said we could. We slowly started learning things about them. I made him change the bedding and we got them a larger cage off craiglist. I feel bad because we learned about them as they grew so they didn't get the best care for the first five months or so but now they are two very happy rats. They trained us to love them and want to make them happy. I wish their would have been a pamphlet that I could take home that was free and told me how to take care of my rats.
> 
> 
> I'd throw something together but I doubt they'd let me put it up.


Yeah.. I have done that before... They usually don't let you if it's a chain pet store, but my local mom as pop store will take pamphlets if they agree with them.

I went in and asked if I could give him some pamphlets on dog and cat fur in Canada, and he said 'they do that!?' Took my ENTIRE pile right out of my hand (200 or so) and stacked them on his front desk.

I needed those pamphlets... Lol.




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## Houdini (Sep 17, 2012)

Muttlycrew said:


> Houdini... I'm confused if you mean the pics you posted are the cage listed, or if the pic you posted is a new cage, but that isn't the same cage..
> The cage you posted pictures of is about the same height but almost twice as long as the one first listed in the this post.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


No no, I was just pointing out that the cage in the craigslist ad isn't even sufficient for a mouse.(using my csge to show what sufficent space is for mice) Sorry for the confusion!


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## Muttlycrew (Dec 21, 2012)

Ohh ok-haha! 
I like your mouse cage! Looks like a very content little mouse! 


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## Jess Of TheFatRatChannel (Jan 31, 2013)

I hope whoever takes in that rat gets him a nice big cage with a hammock, toys and a cage mate. He deserves a better life than that. Things like this make me so upset, how hard is it for someone to just do a little research before getting a pet!?


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