# Solitary?



## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

Okay so lately randy has been a jerk he's ok with people very loveable but with other rats he picks fights and makes them bleed he is in his own cage alone and he looks lonely 
But he always fights with other rats what am I to do
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## JudeWriley (Aug 1, 2007)

Have you tried immersion and doing proper introductions? A very last resort would be a neutering too.


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

It seems like every other month I have to reintroduce him to the others but he's so aggressive towards rats but loves people even free range he doesnt like them coming in his space

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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

How old is he and what have you tried so far?


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

He's around a year he was my sisters but she didn't want him anymore when I got him he didn't like.people either so o done trust training now he loves people I thought maybe it was a space issue but its a double nation I tried two water bottles two food bowls.thinking that was a problem it started out playing then it got aggressive mostly towards Lister so I took Randy and put him in another cage next to lister and rimmer cage he seems fine so I put him back in but every month he seems to go back to old behavior 

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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

With some rats, boys especially, they can have too much space. Its to do with how the alpha has to keep control over a large space. Its easier done in a smaller space. If you try it again I would try it starting in a small cage then only half your big cage for a while. See if that helps. 

Also in terms of you how do you handle him, is it gently or are you more dominant with him? dominant handling can help some lads realise they don't need to be in charge all the time. 

If you've tried a lot of this and it's not worked then I would try and find an experienced vet and consider getting him neutered, it may take an hormonal influences away, and if not then he is likley to get on very well living with a hareem of girls.


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

Well I handle him gently I just pick him up he's very sweet and is a.lap.rat. but I've never had a fight with mu rats ever until I added Randy and he only goes after Lister and draws blood and Lister not a pup he's around 2 the only rat that he liked to be with was gimchi but I am not going to have her after she's done nursing my friend is taking her 

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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I'd also try daily supervised play. When Randy goes after lister make sure he knows how much it upsets you. Show him it's bad behavior and wrong and be aggressive about it. Rats tend to follow their alpha's lead. One the pack alpha accepts another rat, it makes a point of grooming them showing all of the other rats in the pack that the new rat is accepted and under the alpha's protection. There's a chance that once Randy gets the message, he'll back off.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Agree with rat daddy, you need to be firm with him when he miss behaves. If he goes for one of the others pick him up and say no firmly. Don't put him back until he's called down then see how he goes. I also find being clearly there and giving them a firm stroke as they start sniffing the other rats reminds them I'm there and I want them to get on


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

So I did the supervise play thing and it just made it worse when I told him no and firmily picked him up and put him back down he tore into lister. So I tapped him and said no after I broke it up he was fine for two min then when lister was on my lap randy yet again attacked and drew blood. I firmly picked him up and told him no. He just worries me when lister was sniffing the cage with the babies in it while the babies were climbing the cage randy goes up and bites one of the babies tail trying to pull it through the bar. I just fear for any rats around him

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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

I would say he's showing signs of becoming very aggressive . You said he's 6 months old? That's the age when boys usually start. The new ratties maybe just made him upset and stressed out and triggered .... 
For now, keep him separated. His aggression may dwindle as he gets used to the babies . Try an extra couple immersion sessions. Any time a rat draws blood, it's very serious. He's at an age where it could be hormonal, but try from a behaviour pov before you neuter which is your other option. 

I would not put him back with the other rats for now . He can seriously injure them. 


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

I just don't know what to do I already am stressed enough I have all these babies to find homes for people back out at the last second gimchi hates any female now randy I just I feel bad bc I don't really have time for them but I want them to be good homes

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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

You will be less stressed once you find homes for the babies  just hang in there...


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Do you have a good rat vet near you. If the handling doesn't help and gimchi is being difficult with girls then a neuter might help solve both problems as they can move in together. It might be fixable with handling but if this is something you dont have the time to do the a euter can ma, e the process easier it does carry risjs though and thats why finding a good vet helps minimise them.


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

Well.the thing is after the next couple.weeks my friend.Jeff is taking gimchi he's going to get her fixed and house with his boys since she just loves him lol

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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

So, there's way more going on here than one rat getting pushy with another rat. Although you might need to be more assertive when you supervise your rat's play, I'm starting to feel like I don't see the big picture... maybe if you fill in a few details and give us a little background with what's going on with you and your rats it might make more sense.

If everything is up in the air right now, you might want to settle other things down before you try to fix this problem.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

out of interest was he the dad to the babies? mating often makes bucks hormones go a bit nuts, however when things settle down, they dont have so many other rats and changes going on etc they can calm down and get back to normal.


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

No he came after the babies HR use to be my sisters and she really didn't want him but her fiance came home with it from a pet store I really couldn't take anymore because I had two males and two females who my ex threw in a small cage while I was away while he wiped everything clean I just can't deal with all this added stress working 30 plus hours people backing out on taking the babies the financial stress since they arrived a female rat who hates Me a male rat who is back to square one moving etc I am seriously thinking that right now I can not take care of rats and I don't know why BC I had rats in the past and it was easy

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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

If your life means you dont have the time you used to and your struggling then I would seriously consider finding him a new home like your other girl. Theres nothing wrong with admitting youve taken to much on and finding a home that has the time to work with him. It happens to pretty much everyone at some time in there lives.


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

I am going to find homes for them I seriously can not do this I mean its just too much I literally cry BC I'm at my breaking point and don't know what to do

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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

If your honestly afraid for your rats and you feel hes getting worse then I think you either need to neuter him or rehome him. He doesn't sound a happy rat right now


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Hugs, I really hope your ok, you've got to look after yourself too.


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

I'll be okay just they are exspensive to feed and litter etc I Dunn what to do

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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Your rats are picking up on your stress. And as your pack's alpha you are losing control and as you can expect things are going to go wrong. 

Just focus on one thing at a time, re-home your babies and then do some long and playful immersion sessions to get everyone on the same page and get your rats back to a regular play schedule and things will start to go back to normal.

I realize that putting out the stove fire isn't going to fix the air conditioner but if your plan is to be cool in your home... first things first. Put out the your fires first and then start making progress again on your projects.


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

I try not to lose it I really do just with depression working long hours finding out trying to help Randy is making him worse and I had homes for the babies they backed out so I do need to get on track for happy rats

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## EverGreen (Oct 25, 2013)

Well again, if you get really desperate I can take one or two boys from you. They have to be little though. It's a long drive though :/


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

The babies well especially litas are small my teo main boys Lister and rimmer have made it through an 8 HR drive when I moved from Ohio just rimmer the hairless dumbo needs a lot of care he's skiddish freaks when being held I was making progress just He needs someone who has more time.that I can give so does Randy but the babies are making me go through a lot.of food and bedding and the babies are skiddish.too.BC.I haven't.handled them as.much as I like but working 30+ hours its hard

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## Finnebon (Jul 15, 2013)

How are you disciplining him? Just a tap on the head might not be enough to really tell him no. My two young boys love each other a lot, but one boy plays a little rough and annoys the other one constantly. I don't want the one getting more beat up to start disliking his rough brother so I'm trying to tell the rough boy no whenever I see him playing too rough. I will quickly flip him on his back and firmly (but not hard enough to hurt him) pinch that bit of skin between his neck and shoulder on the side, and lay my palm on his belly as if I was an alpha rat pinning another rat down. He hasn't quite learned that I mean business yet though. I think it might take a while. He will squeak a bit and apologize and want to be let back up again, but after I let him up he tends to just get more excited and then popcorns around the cage and pounces on his poor brother again lol.

Your situation sounds very similar to my 2 older boys who are the same age as your Randy. There used to be 3 older boys. 2 brothers and one additional boy who was a couple months younger. One of the brothers decided he disliked the younger one and finally wanted him gone and would try to chase him and fight and get all fluffy and threatening and kick and squeak and freaked out the other 2 rats. The younger boy had to be rehomed to keep him safe and to keep the 2 brothers happy because the aggressive brother was starting to lash out at his nice brother who always got along with everyone. We miss the younger boy, but the 2 older boys are much happier and the one rat is no longer aggressive at all. Some rats just don't like other rats, or are very picky about who they accept.

If he got along with the girl rat, maybe you could consider adopting a spayed girl and they could live together? No risk of babies, and no risk of the super common mammary tumors for her if she's spayed, and maybe Randy will finally chill out? Maybe you could even get Gimchi spayed and keep her instead of rehoming? You can look for a low cost spay neuter clinic in your area, you may find one. Should be about $100 for a spay if you're lucky. If not, you may just have to spend a lot of time playing with Randy one on one so he doesn't get depressed living alone.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

Have you thought about the humane society or other rescue org for some of the babies...? It seems like they adopt out frequently in my area, and it's where I got my scarlet .... If at some point you feel like they're not getting proper care, and it's making your depression worse ... Well.....

Just a thought ..... I hope ur doing okay


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

I'm depressed because I can't afford what I need for them since the babies Came I have 20 something and I have a feeling Lister going to die soon I have no time for them when I work and in the midst of moving my ferrite and critter nations broke si now square one with nursing cages and a 10 gallon tank which I hate BC nit enough ventilation. I'm letting my friend take gimchi BC for some reason she loves guys pfft so he's going to get her spayed he was going to take randy but randy didn't get along with his mischief 

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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

I had a play session today and it went OK Randy was on my shoulder and Lister wanted up so I switched I petted Randy and he was on my desk by the keyboard he kept looking at Lister I didn't think anything of it so when listen climbed off my arm onto the desk everything was fine then I heard a terrible sound Randy had pinned Lister then when I removed him and told him no he bit me I went to put him in his cage he squirm out went straight for Lister not pinning him but rammed him off the desk I caught him though but what has Randy so angry I do one on one with him but now he bites last night he bit my lip while on my shoulder and it drew blood I don't want to.give up on him but I fear for listers safety 

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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Rats are small and delicate animals.... that said... when my part wild rat bit me, and perhaps she only wanted to kill the mouse in my hand and I twisted my wrist and took the bite myself, she found herself launched across the room and sliding down the far wall... She came right back to me and apologized... note; I was bleeding profusely, she was fine.

I didn't intentionally fling her, but with rats love does seem to be based on respect for authority. 

Communicate authority immediately and decisively. To be honest, my rats walk all over me because I'm a soft touch, but the idea of them biting me or anybody else would never cross their minds. 

I'm not saying fling your rat into a wall, but pinning and getting bit, then returning him to his cage doesn't seem to be inspiring respect. My daughter pins Max several times every play session and that's just normal play for Max. As soon as my daughter puts her down or rather tosses her across the bed Max charges back for more fun. 

It's harder to describe in words than to do onsite, you don't want to punish your rat or hurt him, but if your rat doesn't get the message you are not communicating.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

. Stop having joint play time, it seems like it's only causing you and lister to get bitten. Instead, do some immersion with randy alone. It seems like he is not understanding that you are unhappy with him... to echo what rat daddy said, do not hurt him to get ur message across, but do find a way to communicate with him, If it doesn't work after a few good tries, he may just have hormonal issues, which can only be solved by neuter. Save up for a few months and go 


How are you feeling? Have you come to any more solutions to your issues ?  


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

I found a home for one baby I don't want to sell them for food that's why I'm posting on pet forums the lady at the pet store said that if I need of she will give me new cages and food she.came over to my appartment to look at Randy her husband likes to take trouble rats and make them social but now they are in tanks and nursing cages since my ferret nation and critter nation decided to fall off the truck and break sighs 

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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

So Randy is now attacking the cage when I open it 

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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

Did u look at threads about immersion with very aggressive rats ? It sounds like he's getting worse... I'm sorry  


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

I spent 3 hrs trying to immersion and he just he's getting worse this one lady husband rehibilates rates and she's interested but I feel bad giving him to someone.even though they are willing 

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## Daize (Jun 8, 2013)

Batman said:


> I spent 3 hrs trying to immersion and he just he's getting worse this one lady husband rehibilates rates and she's interested but I feel bad giving him to someone.even though they are willing
> 
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If they're willing to take him and work with him. It might be a good idea. He could be picking up on your being stressed and it's stressing him out.


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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

I'm going to talk more with her she's the one with the pet store who has animals in their cages not tanks she said if she takes him she would give me a case of food and treats lol

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## Batman (Sep 11, 2013)

So Randy has a new home with a guy who rehibilitates rats I dropped him off and it was a good vibe he took me on a tour randy is going to be happy I feel sad but I know its best 

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