# Possible Pyoderma



## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

I found a large irregular and uneven scab on the back of my boy today. The scab is approximately 1.25-1.5 inches by .5-.75 inches. The scab has an uneven texture. The scab looks newer more towards the head and more healed on the end towards the tail. It is flat, but slight raised above the skin, and moves with the skin. The scab has some redness around the edges. There is no hair loss, but I suspect this is due to my boy being unable to scratch or groom the area because he is overweight. As my vet put it, "he is a good eater." He is still a good eater even with his scab. His activity level seems to be his average level of super relaxed. He did not seemed at all bothered when I was prodding and poking his scab. In fact, he was totally indifferent. I took some pictures. Although, it is hard to see clearly because of the fur. It is, however, very easy to feel the entire area of it. I plan to take him to the vet on Monday. He was recently, 10 days ago on August 24th, neutered. His incision area is healing well.

This is the top edge in the direction of his head. That yellow flakey stuff is his oily dander.








Here you can see the full size of the scabbed area. The lower end extends a bit past my finger.








This is in the middle of the scab (I think). It is hard to distinguish oily dander from flakey scab.








Just checking, but does it look like it is something contagious? Also, is there anything I can do until I get to the vet on Monday?


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

Looks like a regular scab to me, not Pyoderma. Probably scuffled with his cage mate, I dont think he needs to see the vet for that. Rats heal amazingly fast.


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## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

I have seen a lot of scabs and this one just seems totally different. It is hard to describe, but it covers a fairly large area and the area has a kind of off texture. Or rather not really texture, but kind of like something flat is under the skin. It seems softer than a scab, but harder than skin? Normally if he had a scab, even a very small one, he would absolutely object to me poking and prodding, so I am feeling confused. I was pinching the area between my fingers gentle and he did not even flinch.

Although, maybe I will wait until Tuesday instead and see how it progresses. I have to admit that I am feeling a bit guilty too that I did not notice it until now. I was focusing on my two girls that were spayed on Wednesday (Aug. 31st).


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## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

So, my boy has had an unlucky month. 5 weeks, 2 post neuter abscesses, 1 sebaceous cyst later, and his wound is still healing. It was making slow, but steady progress. It helped that he could not groom or scratch the area because of his ample curves. He also ended up on Baytril for almost a straight month. There was a break of a few days before his second abscess started to rear its head and he ended up back on Baytril for another 2 weeks. Today, the scab was partially ripped off by someone or something and I was not confident that what I found underneath was normal, so we headed back to the vet with his sister and her perpetually angry eye.

Before the vet:








After the vet cleaned up the area:







In this picture, you can clearly see the scarred area which has already healed. It also looks like a bath is in his future.

My boy, who has recently picked up the nickname Mr. Squishers, seemed to be totally horrified by his fur getting trimmed, but did not particularly mind his wound being cleaned up. The vet said that the white-ish part of his wound is necrotic tissue. He gave me Tyrosur powder and Bepanthen to apply to his wound 2 to 3 times a day. The vet mentioned that if it does not heal up that the wound will need to be excised surgically.

The vet applied some of the Tyrosur powder during the appointment. When I put him back with everyone, they all investigated his back, but his father was completely enthralled by the powder. He licked it off and I had to actively shoo him several times from chasing around Mr. Squishers to lick his back. Should I separate him for an hour or two after I apply the powder? Or maybe put him in a hospital cage with others that I am confident will not eat the powder off his back?

My boy has been a real trooper the last month. Although, I am sure the copious amounts of pureed banana that needed to be mixed with his Baytril helped.


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## Demonardae (Apr 10, 2011)

Poor guy. I would say maybe separating the sickie from his dad for the medicine to have a chance to take effect would be a good idea, plus who knows if eating that stuff will make him sick.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Terpsichore said:


> So, my boy has had an unlucky month. 5 weeks, 2 post neuter abscesses, 1 sebaceous cyst later, and his wound is still healing. It was making slow, but steady progress. It helped that he could not groom or scratch the area because of his ample curves. He also ended up on Baytril for almost a straight month. There was a break of a few days before his second abscess started to rear its head and he ended up back on Baytril for another 2 weeks. Today, the scab was partially ripped off by someone or something and I was not confident that what I found underneath was normal, so we headed back to the vet with his sister and her perpetually angry eye.
> 
> Before the vet:
> View attachment 2732
> ...


so I googled it and the Tyrosur is a antiseptic wound powder, and the Bepanthen is a antiseptic wound cream. Hmmm...

That is definitely necrotic tissue, and looks like it might need surgical debridement (not a removal)...

I personally use betadine solution or saline solution for wounds such as this and flush them at least twice a day.

How does it smell? Meaty or infected? This is vital to know.

It looks like 2 cases I have dealt with...

Gilbert who came from the filthiest conditions possible...he had a slashy bite wound on his shoulder that became infected.










After some flushing at home, the infection just kept travelling under the skin and more necrotic flesh resulted. My vet gassed him down, debrided the affected tissue and closed him up with surgical glue.

Then there was Twiggy...he had what I thought was a tumour behind his jaw, ended up being a horrific abscess...here is his thread.

http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/index.php?topic=4083229.0


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## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

I just gave him a good sniff and I smell nothing but squishy rat smell . The wound is pretty flat, so I cannot really flush the area out. I have been wiping the area down with alcohol before I apply the medication.

The wound has been making very slow but steady healing progress. The start of his month long Baytril marathon was actually for this wound when the scab still looked irregular. I think he ripped the scab, which had curled up by 5mm in some places, by accident when he was going under one of the shelves. The area without fur in the second picture is the original size of the wound. I am hoping now that it has more exposure to air and with the medication that it will begin to heal a bit faster.

What really concerns me the most right now is the way his father, Lucky, is super interested in his wound. I caught Lucky nibble grooming the wound when I was cleaning earlier. I am considering separating him with my tiny girl for company. He weighs 4x as much as her and I think that even if she stood up she might not be able to get to his back lol.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Terpsichore said:


> I just gave him a good sniff and I smell nothing but squishy rat smell . The wound is pretty flat, so I cannot really flush the area out. I have been wiping the area down with alcohol before I apply the medication.
> 
> The wound has been making very slow but steady healing progress. The start of his month long Baytril marathon was actually for this wound when the scab still looked irregular. I think he ripped the scab, which had curled up by 5mm in some places, by accident when he was going under one of the shelves. The area without fur in the second picture is the original size of the wound. I am hoping now that it has more exposure to air and with the medication that it will begin to heal a bit faster.
> 
> What really concerns me the most right now is the way his father, Lucky, is super interested in his wound. I caught Lucky nibble grooming the wound when I was cleaning earlier. I am considering separating him with my tiny girl for company. He weighs 4x as much as her and I think that even if she stood up she might not be able to get to his back lol.


I wouldn't worry, he cannot groom it himself from the location, so his dad is trying to help him out. They clean out abscesses all the time.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Not having an infected smell is great, its granulating healthy tissue then


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## Susinko (Apr 29, 2008)

Please tell me Gilbert is okay now. That poor baby. I will also say a prayer for Mr. Squishers. I hope he fully heals soon. I will also have to borrow that name. It is just too cute!


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## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

I was feeling confident about how the wound was healing. However, over the last two or three days I noticed a lump developing under the wound.








The white point in the wound, which I hoped was pus, actually seems to be more necrotic tissue. It is hard to see in the picture, but the necrotic tissue is actually underneath the healthy tissue. I am assuming that the lump I am feeling is more necrotic tissue. I hope that the area does not close off before I can show it to my vet on Monday.

Last week, it looked like that the necrotic tissue was just on the surface under the scab. I am, now, assuming that the necrotic tissue had spread deeper and that healthy tissue has started to grow over it. I do not smell any infection smell. Although, I guess that because their is healthy tissue on the surface that it is not surprising. Maybe it will need to be treated surgically after all . He was on Baytril for almost all of September and his body still seems to be struggling with healing the wound.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Terpsichore said:


> I was feeling confident about how the wound was healing. However, over the last two or three days I noticed a lump developing under the wound.
> 
> View attachment 2778
> 
> ...


Things could be surfacing as they heal, but watch for signs of worsening. How are his pain levels?


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## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

He does not seem to be in any pain. He only shows any discomfort when I clean the area with alcohol and when I am feeling the lump, which is to be expected. Poor guy sometimes tries to scratch his wound but because of his curvy nature his back foot just ends up scratching the air.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Terpsichore said:


> He does not seem to be in any pain. He only shows any discomfort when I clean the area with alcohol and when I am feeling the lump, which is to be expected. Poor guy sometimes tries to scratch his wound but because of his curvy nature his back foot just ends up scratching the air.


Instead of painful alcohol, why not use isotonic saline solution, it will help dry out and keep the lesion clean.


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## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

The lump has reduced in size pretty dramatically over the last 2 days. Maybe there was some fluid build up?

I have switched to using saline to clean the wound before I medicate the area. I talked with my father, a people doctor, and he suggested using silver nitrate sticks. Does anyone have experience with using silver nitrate? Although, I will most likely just continue with the saline. I would worry about other rats ingesting it.


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## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

My boy's wound is looking a lot better. It is nice and flat underneath. I have started to medicate the wound twice instead of three times a day. Once I stop medicating the wound, is there something I can do to moisturize the new skin? Would lotion be okay?

He has started to grow a bit of a comb over lol. Will fur ever grow back in the area of the scar?

Also, I found a small moveable lump under his skin a few days ago. It is maybe 3-4mm in diameter. Perhaps it is a lipoma? I have had some trouble finding it since I originally found it.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Terpsichore said:


> View attachment 2827
> 
> My boy's wound is looking a lot better. It is nice and flat underneath. I have started to medicate the wound twice instead of three times a day. Once I stop medicating the wound, is there something I can do to moisturize the new skin? Would lotion be okay?
> 
> ...


I wouldn't worry about moisturizing the skin, unless it becomes dry. Drying wounds helps them heal.


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## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

After two months, he is all healed up and sporting a dramatic battle scar! The picture is a few days old:








The skin in the area is looking a little dry. Is lotion safe to use? Or is there something more natural I could use to help prevent the area from drying out?

I think he has become a bit spoiled after two months of special attention and treats


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

Oh awesome!

I don't think it getting over dried is a worry, but you can feed olive oil which helps the skin.


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## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

I am not really worried about dry skin. I just feel bad for my Squisher's when I see him try to scratch the area, but, because of his size, he ends up scratching the air lol. He can just barely not reach the area. I was hoping if I kept the skin hydrated that maybe it would help with the itchiness.


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## Musicsaves9 (11 mo ago)

lilspaz68 said:


> so I googled it and the Tyrosur is a antiseptic wound powder, and the Bepanthen is a antiseptic wound cream. Hmmm...
> 
> That is definitely necrotic tissue, and looks like it might need surgical debridement (not a removal)...
> 
> ...


I know this post is really old but I'm hoping you see it! My boy has either an infection or tumor with necrotic tissue on the base of his tail. He's on antibiotics and manuka honey. I asked vet about debridement but she said due to location to spine, nerves, anal sphincter she cannot. Do we have hope of healing with out debriding?

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