# HELP PLEASE! My rat just had her litter last night!



## MsMollyE

About three weeks ago I purchased a female albino rat. She was feeder rat stock and I knew it. And the pet store was crappy and I knew it. But she had such a LOVELY personality I just wanted her so bad. She was very calm and friendly and would just sit in my arms when I held her. I knew she was in with males. And I knew there was a chance she'd be pregnant. But I thought maybe it won't happen to me. There were no other females that were not albino and I wanted to have two I could tell apart easily so I bought her and figured I would get her a friend next time I went to a better pet store that had fancy rats. Well for the first two weeks she was really friendly and would usually let me pick her up no problem. Then she started getting more skittish, and then I noticed her belly was really big so I suspected she was preggo and asked about it on yahoo answers. People told me symptoms of pregnancy and she had almost all of them. Then she started making a nest and I KNEW she was preggo. I had so little time to prepare I immediately upped her protein and calcium (I have fed her small amounts of scrambled egg, farm fresh, un-fertilized, broccoli, a little bit of yogurt, other green veggies I know are safe for rats etc.) and bought her some fleece scraps to use as nesting material. Next thing I know this morning when I went to feed her after getting back from an all-nighter at a friend's house I hear squeaking and I'm like OH MY GOD. THEY'RE HERE. I was so shaken up by it because it all just happened so fast and I feel this over whelming responsibility for not just five or six little young ones, but at least FIFTEEN little pinkies all in a pile. When I saw how many there were I was just like Oh God. Because once again I just didn't think it would happen to me. I knew rats could have 20+ babies, but I just didn't think it would happen to me. Anyway I've been a nervous wreck all day thinking she'll eat her babies and it will be all my fault. I figured after probably close to twelve hours of nursing she would like some yummy protein for energy so I cooked her a small scrambled egg because she seems to really like that and mixed some chopped up broccoli in it for calcium. I put it on a plate and went to go put it in her cage. When she got off her babies to go eat I saw something I hoped I was wrong about. At first I thought, prayed it was just discolored bedding from the birth, but I soon realized I couldn't lie to myself and that the motionless purple hued lump among all the wriggling pinkies was a dead baby. I was really panicked but tried not to show it. I don't know if this was the right thing to do but from the information I gathered while researching this is the conclusion I came up with. I figured the dead baby needed to be removed it wasn't sanitary and who knows it might make the other babies smell like death and make Selena think there was something wrong with them too. I didn't want to get my scent on the babies so a rubbed my hands with the bedding because Selena was being sketchy and wouldn't let me pet her. I carefully pulled the motionless purple hued baby out of the nest trying not to touch the others. It was stiff and cold and completely motionless, definitely dead. The ground is frozen here so I couldn't bury it. I placed it in the garden where my dogs couldn't get at it and covered it with leaves. After I did this I checked on the babies just peering inside the cage for a moment, Selena had covered them in nesting material. I don't know what this means. Is she just trying to keep them warm while she gets food? Or is this a sign she is rejecting them and going to eat them? I don't know what the right thing was to do. At the time I feared if I didn't get the dead one out she would eat them all. Now I think that might have been wrong and she might eat them all because I took the dead one away. Someone please help guide me through this process! I don't know what to do with this! All I wanted was a pet for therapeutic reasons. I've always found taming small animals a joy. (except the one nasty male dwarf hamster I had, timothy, he was a...something or other..) Now even though it's not my fault this rat is pregnant I am responsible for so many little lives. I'm scrambling to prepare myself all too late for something I should have been more keen on expecting.


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## MsMollyE

here is a picture of the pups taken a couple hours before I found the dead one. I personally cannot see a dead pup in this pic however there is one that fell away from the nest. I do not know if that is the one that died or if the dead one is simply covered by its siblings at this point.


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## MsMollyE

On the upside many of the ones that are still alive have full milk bellies, you can see a couple in the pic. There were even more with visible milk bands when I last checked.


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## Sarina1285

I am still new to rats so unfortunatley I do not have any advice. Except to tell you to try to keep your calm especially when you're around momma and babies they can sense panic/stress and she might get stressed and do something we wouldn't want her to. 

Congratulations on all the new little lives though  there are Definitley a lot of them haha. Keep us updated with pictures and stories, and I am sure someone on here will have great advise. 


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## LightningWolf

First off, Calm down! 

Rats are not like hamsters or most rodents, as long as they trust you (sounds like she does) she'll let you handle her babies from day one. Rats won't abandon or kill their young just cause they smell different.

The dead baby was probably born dead or died shortly after birth, it's normal especially in this large of a litter. If you would of left it she would just eaten that dead pup, none of the others, to clean the nest area (and to gain back some nutrients from giving birth). a dead pup being around isn't going to make her kill the others.

Rats cover their nest with bedding to keep them warm.

btw, what bedding are you using? Sorry just want to make sure it's Aspen.


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## CarrieD

Deep breaths, it's going to be okay. I can remember the first litter born here to a resuce mom - I was frantic, thinking I should be doing something... then I realized there was really nothing for me to do, that Mom knows just what to do and is fine. You are doing a wonderful job of giving her just what she needs to stay warm, healthy and feed all her little ones. 

Sometimes they don't all make it and it's very sad, but it's nature taking its course. Sometimes Mom senses something wrong and will cull a pup herself - trust her to know her business. You didn't do anything wrong by removing the dead one. 

The bin you have set up is perfect to keep little ones safe - they'll be very active before you know it and the bin will keep little toes and tails safe. Make sure the lid is very well ventilated - you can cut away almost all of it and fasten hardware cloth in the opening. Even if she's not trying right now, Mom can and will get out of that without a lid. 

You could make a house for her out of a box or a small dishpan with a largish door cut out. She'll appreciate having a place to hide them, and something to get up on top of when she needs a break to rest - a place the pups can't follow her. 

At about two weeks old, the little ones will be ready to try a little wet food on their own. I make a porridge out of baby rice cereal and lab block dust and mix it with human soy formula. Mom will also benefit from this mix, (you don't have to wait two weeks to do it), and it will give her a break from the increasing milk demand. Keep up with the goodies for her as well, such as the egg and veggies you're already giving her. 

You can start trying now to find homes, even though you don't know the sexes yet. A little girl or two will make terrific companions for Mom. 

And most of all, enjoy your time with the little ones. They grow up incredibly fast, you won't believe the changes from day to day. Try to handle each one every day, and you will have a sweet, friendly litter. 

Oh, and pictures - take lots and lots!


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## MsMollyE

*thanks guys*

All your assurances are really helping to calm me down. See I have anxiety problems related to PTSD and I find rodents to be good therapy animals. I used to have two guinea pigs but I had to give them away when I moved in with my parents because I didn't have a cat proof cage and no money to upgrade because I had to quit my job because I was sick. I have gotten a lot better and started working a decent job again that I really enjoy and had the money for a new pet. I'd never had a rat before and wanted to give them a try. I had to leave the house though because I was obsessing over the babies afraid there'd be more dead ones. I am already putting the word out that I have babies that will need homes. One person said she might be interested in taking a couple already. Another said she knew someone who owned a rat before but when he split up with his gf she took it and said he might want them. I'm telling all my friends to spread the word and will put flyers up at our local Agway after the holidays. I also called the local no-kill shelter and they said they have taken in exotics before and that they would call me after the Holidays if they had room for them. Luckily I have three ten gallon tanks on hand from previous hamster owning experience (at one point I owned four dwarf hamsters and three mice all at once I used to have a couple 15-wides too but they broke) and I think there is one 15-tall that was used for fish at one point. I will have to sterilize them all but I figure I can put boys in these in small groups so they are not lonely but not over crowded when they turn 4wks. WHAT A DAY. Crazy night at my friends house and then I come home to a little miracle! At first I felt like it was my fault the pup died somehow like I was scaring her because I was anxious so she didn't take care of it. But I really knew it was probably still born and was just buried under the other lil squeakers. I think I'll wait to handle them much right now mostly because I need to get my own hormones under control right now. Plus I don't know how Selena feels toward me right now, I think she senses my anxiety and fear so I really need to calm down. Selena and I are both acting pretty sketchy right now. The last week of her pregnancy she would nip at me, not hard just like to say "HEY! I'm a fat preggo lady I don't wanna be touched!" lol I deff understand now that I see how many babies she had inside her still not sure exactly how many but I think I counted at least 16 in the photo and probably more underneath so might be close to twenty. I am just drinking tons of chamomile tea to calm my nerves. I went to the mexican restaurant to show my manager the pic of the pinkies and had some much needed food and water because while I was making sure Selena had everything I forgot to feed myself! She just picked the WRONG day to have her babies it just HAD to be on a night I was out of the house despite the fact that I'm there five nights of the week. Anyway I'm still trying to gather myself from the shock. I mean I only became 100% sure she was preggo less than a week ago! And I do intend on keeping one or two of the daughters for company for her. I think the bin I have her in should be able to accommodate up to three rats once I finish customizing it with shelves and hammocks. It is a rudimentary cage right now, it just has several air holes poked in it. After the holidays when the hardware store is open I'll get supplies I need to make it more well ventilated. I also have pieces of an old wire hamster cage and once the babies are big enough they can't slip in between for sure I'll use those to create ventilation on the sides as well. I have a lot of plans to make the bin a virtual rat heaven with tons of hammocks and pleasure toys. I tried looking at traditional cages but couldn't find anything I liked. I know some rats will chew out of bins but I figure I'll give it a try. If it doesn't work I'll look for wire cages.


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## MsMollyE

And yes I know to use aspen, I was told not to use carefresh with small babies but that is my usual bedding of choice. At what age can I use carefresh with them and when can I clean the cage next? My parents will be really mad if I go much more than a week with out cleaning it. but I thought I remembered reading that you had to wait a certain period of time to clean it after she has babies. I did a lot of reading but I was too frantic to organize any of the research so I'm having trouble remembering it all and finding it again and putting it into practice. And thanks for everyone being so nice. Some people are real snobs about this kind of thing and would tell me stuff like I'm a bad pet owner for even buying from a pet store like that. But I like to think of it as rescuing her. Also I'm still afraid that the regular bedding is too scratchy for their tender skin and they are basically laying on the bottom of the bin (which I sanitized before putting her in) touching the plastic. I gave her fleece bits because that's what I heard to use. She did cover them with a fleece bit to keep them warm once, but should I like help her put them ON one? so they're you know, a bit comfier? I'm so scared to handle them though, just how fragile are they as newborns? they look like they'd break if I touched them. I'm just not %100 comfortable with handling them yet, I have never touched anything so tiny. I do want to handle them from a young age though so they'll be tame and people will want them as pets. but oh my gosh TWENTY rats? How will I have time to manage that? At least it's the slow season so I have time off work to raise these little ones. I will update pics for you guys as they grow. I am expecting most if not all of them to be albino because mommy is and most of the males in the cage at the pet store were too. there was one BIG rat that had grey on it but I don't remember if it was male or female. Still I'm figuring they all came from the same stock so if there was one with markings I'm holding out hope some of them will have cute markings, if not just to make it easier to place them in homes then to be able to tell them apart! lol!


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## LightningWolf

ok, you'll want to wean between 4 and 5 weeks (so 4.5 weeks old give or take). Though normally mother rats will wean them on their own.

Honestly, if your going to do a bin cage you'll need a different type of bin. Those type of bins have extremely thin plastic that is easily chew through. But you can try, but you can either get a tub with thicker plastic (like the Sterilite 105 quart tubs, which has enough room for 2 rats) or invest in a wire cage, which will probably be your best bet. it's a lot easier to hang hammocks in wire cages then bin cages. though you can use a bin cage for a temp home (They make excellent travel cages) and for now of coarse.


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## MsMollyE

Thanks goodness I just bought a digital camera and can record all this! It was super stressful the first eight hours or so but I feel much calmer now. If any of you pray, pray my little ones all make it. I know it will be hard to place that many in homes, but I really want them all to make it. OMG I can't believe how many there are...I am starting to feel a little brave and calmed down so when I leave the computer lab and go home I might try to move them around a little to get a real count of how many there are, if mom will let me. I'll update how many there are if I succeed.


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## MsMollyE

*thanks guys*

All your assurances are really helping to calm me down. See I have anxiety problems related to PTSD and I find rodents to be good therapy animals. I used to have two guinea pigs but I had to give them away when I moved in with my parents because I didn't have a cat proof cage and no money to upgrade because I had to quit my job because I was sick. I have gotten a lot better and started working a decent job again that I really enjoy and had the money for a new pet. I'd never had a rat before and wanted to give them a try. I had to leave the house though because I was obsessing over the babies afraid there'd be more dead ones. I am already putting the word out that I have babies that will need homes. One person said she might be interested in taking a couple already. Another said she knew someone who owned a rat before but when he split up with his gf she took it and said he might want them. I'm telling all my friends to spread the word and will put flyers up at our local Agway after the holidays. I also called the local no-kill shelter and they said they have taken in exotics before and that they would call me after the Holidays if they had room for them. Luckily I have three ten gallon tanks on hand from previous hamster owning experience (at one point I owned four dwarf hamsters and three mice all at once I used to have a couple 15-wides too but they broke) and I think there is one 15-tall that was used for fish at one point. I will have to sterilize them all but I figure I can put boys in these in small groups so they are not lonely but not over crowded when they turn 4wks. WHAT A DAY. Crazy night at my friends house and then I come home to a little miracle! At first I felt like it was my fault the pup died somehow like I was scaring her because I was anxious so she didn't take care of it. But I really knew it was probably still born and was just buried under the other lil squeakers. I think I'll wait to handle them much right now mostly because I need to get my own hormones under control right now. Plus I don't know how Selena feels toward me right now, I think she senses my anxiety and fear so I really need to calm down. Selena and I are both acting pretty sketchy right now. The last week of her pregnancy she would nip at me, not hard just like to say "HEY! I'm a fat preggo lady I don't wanna be touched!" lol I deff understand now that I see how many babies she had inside her still not sure exactly how many but I think I counted at least 16 in the photo and probably more underneath so might be close to twenty. I am just drinking tons of chamomile tea to calm my nerves. I went to the mexican restaurant to show my manager the pic of the pinkies and had some much needed food and water because while I was making sure Selena had everything I forgot to feed myself! She just picked the WRONG day to have her babies it just HAD to be on a night I was out of the house despite the fact that I'm there five nights of the week. Anyway I'm still trying to gather myself from the shock. I mean I only became 100% sure she was preggo less than a week ago! And I do intend on keeping one or two of the daughters for company for her. I think the bin I have her in should be able to accommodate up to three rats once I finish customizing it with shelves and hammocks. It is a rudimentary cage right now, it just has several air holes poked in it. After the holidays when the hardware store is open I'll get supplies I need to make it more well ventilated. I also have pieces of an old wire hamster cage and once the babies are big enough they can't slip in between for sure I'll use those to create ventilation on the sides as well. I have a lot of plans to make the bin a virtual rat heaven with tons of hammocks and pleasure toys. I tried looking at traditional cages but couldn't find anything I liked. I know some rats will chew out of bins but I figure I'll give it a try. If it doesn't work I'll look for wire cages.


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## MsMollyE

Also this may sound silly but I had a pot in with her for a hidey house. She had a card bored box originally but she chewed it a lot and it got really dirty so I threw it out. It was just a temporary thing until I could get a proper hidey house. She seemed to like going in it though because I'd see her in there all the time so I thought if I put the fleece in there she'd have her babies there but she pulled all the fleece out and made the nest in the middle of the cage. See my area is really shitty for buying exotic pet supplies. The selection is really limited, I have to go an hour away to get a good variety of toys for rodents. Or shop online. I am currently budgeting and shopping on amazon right now but having trouble find things I like. If anyone finds links to affordable deals on rat toys link me here. Also I saw some really awesome custom hand made hammock sets sold by an ebay business and I intend on buying one with my next paycheck and installing when it is safe for babies to climb. Also do rats like bells? I think bell toys are a thing I can pick up at wal-mart. I had some for my cavies and they loved them.


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## mistymornings18

Be sure to freeze the Aspen bedding and then let it warm before using it. That way they won't be at risk for anything catching from the bedding ya know? Also i would give her a fleece baby blanket or something similar she can use to put the babies on or under. I found my females liked that more then the aspen for their little babies.
If you have access to a paper shredder I would even stop using the aspen and get some white paper and shred it for bedding. That is all we use in our cages and it is soooo much easier on the ratters then the Aspen wood chips. Softer in my opinion. Congratulations and good luck with your little eepers.


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## mistymornings18

MsMollyE said:


> Also this may sound silly but I had a pot in with her for a hidey house. She had a card bored box originally but she chewed it a lot and it got really dirty so I threw it out. It was just a temporary thing until I could get a proper hidey house. She seemed to like going in it though because I'd see her in there all the time so I thought if I put the fleece in there she'd have her babies there but she pulled all the fleece out and made the nest in the middle of the cage. See my area is really shitty for buying exotic pet supplies. The selection is really limited, I have to go an hour away to get a good variety of toys for rodents. Or shop online. I am currently budgeting and shopping on amazon right now but having trouble find things I like. If anyone finds links to affordable deals on rat toys link me here. Also I saw some really awesome custom hand made hammock sets sold by an ebay business and I intend on buying one with my next paycheck and installing when it is safe for babies to climb. Also do rats like bells? I think bell toys are a thing I can pick up at wal-mart. I had some for my cavies and they loved them.


Baby toys make awesome rat toys. Those plastic link rings are a personal favorite of my rats. 
Also get some fleece or even an old sheet and rip it into strips. Braid it for a rope and hang in the cage.


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## MsMollyE

*/*

I did give her bits of fleece like what you would make a baby blanket out of, but she just used it around the edge of the nest for some reason, not touching the babies....maybe she's just new to this too. Anyway. Day two and except for the one I found the first day they all seem to be wriggling and thriving. I'm pretty sure that one was still born. I haven't picked any up yet but I have been touching them in the nest. What I do is I feed mom a treat and then I pet a few of them...Mom doesn't seem to mind. Still haven't gotten a good count yet but I'm guessing around 16. Would it be alright to let my little brothers touch the pinkies? Or should I be the only one doing it? They are six and ten and would be supervised, obviously. They're really curious and like to look at the babies!


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## Gannyaan

I don't know, but I would think that waiting till they're a bit older would be better . A week or so . Oh, and if you're around the Detroit area, I'll adopt one  


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## LightningWolf

I would personally wait to let your brother's touch them unless your female it calm with them.

In a few days (as in soon) I would start picking them up so they are used to being picked up.

Also when they are a little older get them exposed to loud noises and being handled and played with frequently. My friend who had the oops litter (I got 3 boys from her) Weren't exactly socialized to very loud noises (I have a very high pitch voice so they kept running away when I talked, even in a normal voice which for me is still high pitch, funny How I'm an Alto in choir though).


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## IndyYawns!

It's normal for rats to hollow out a little hole like that for the pups, if you want give her something a bit more shreddable like newspaper or whatever. Carefresh is fine for rat pinks..why would it not be? Aspen has sharp edges anyway, and could cut their delicate skin more than plush paper pulp.

Don't let little kids mess with her, the rat knows you best and is probably just barely tolerating people messing with her littler at this stage. There is a chance she will nip strangers. If they really want to see one pick one up and bring it away from the mother so the kids can see it up close. x2 on early handling, the more, the better! Don't have the pinks away from the mother for more than 10 mins at a time, they will get cold, and they need constant licking and feeding.


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## MsMollyE

For some reason I read that like carefresh can smother the babies maybe? And I let my brothers look at them but not touch. Every time I go to handle the babies I feed Selena a treat. I very gently picked one up out of the nest and just held it in the cage so my lil brothers could look at it but Selena didn't like that and she nipped at me, not hard, it didn't hurt or break the skin, she was just like "Put mah baby down!" She was nursing them last I checked but she has been up around the cage more it seems...this normal? At first she was nursing them every time I checked.

Unfortunately I am not in detroit area, I am probably a day's long drive from there. However to be vague about my location but still be able to ask for help, I am near the Twin Tiers (New York/PA) Anyone know of rat sanctuaries in this area in case I can't find homes for them? I heard the local animal sanctuary in the next town over is good, no-kill, and takes exotics, I'm waiting until after holidays for them to call me back if they have room.

Also I want to handle Selena and play with her but she has still been hormonal/nippy towards me. She wasn't like this before! When will she get back to normal? What can I do to get her to trust me and like me again? I have been hand feeding her yogurt treats everyday.


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## MsMollyE

Also my lil brothers LOVE looking at the pinkies! They are so fascinated. My ten year old brother says "They look like little hot dogs!"


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## Gannyaan

I dont blame ur bros . Hahaha I love them tooooo ! Man I really want one,...... Pictures when you can ! Hehe.... Oh, I think she' ll go back to normal soon when the babies become more independent and she realizes you're not a threat to them  as much as I'm sure she loves you, you're still huggeee to them  


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## IndyYawns!

Sweet! 
Once the babies are a little less dependent, as they grow fur and open their eyes, she will cal down a whole lot more. Also, be a it assertive, respect her boundaries about her babies, but also take some time to try to handle her for a few minutes a day so the process is a little easier. Even if she is a little nippy, she shoudn't protest too too much if you try to go in there to handle her, or you can lure her out with more food.


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## MsMollyE

I have trouble being assertive...I get nervous.. =/ I will try to get her out of the cage next time I see her not nursing. Just for a few minutes. I'm sure she'd enjoy running around on my bed and burrowing in the blankets.


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## MsMollyE

I was just skimming over a blog about someone else's rat baby experience. What they did is put mom in another room to do a full on handling of the babies...I really want to get an actual count of how many I have...so this is my plan now. I'm fairly confident in it but will have to work out small details...I think I'll pick the babies up one by one and set them on a clean towel to count them. My guess is 16 though.


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## Gannyaan

how did the handling go???


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## MsMollyE

*handling babies*

Been handling the babies almost everyday. It is their one week birthday today and they all have little white fuzz on them! I put mommy in her carrier today to count, handle, and sex each of the babies. I THINK there are seven girls and nine boys but they kept crawling around out of the piles I was sorting them in to! They are already starting to get very active! They squirmed like crazy when I held them on their backs to sex them. Everything is going really well and I can't believe how well the babies are thriving!


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## LightningWolf

that's great that the handling went well. (PS. Pictures)


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## Cassia

Well done!  You are doing a good job!


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## Sarina1285

Pictures please!!!!! Really glad everything is going so well  


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## Cassia

Yeah! we NEED pictures! And fast


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## MsMollyE

Will update pics very soon! They are one week and one day old now and have smooth little white coats. They are still blind and deaf but already getting curious. When i pick them up they try to crawl all over my hands and even up my sleeve! So cute! I mispalced my camera but as soon as I find it I'll update pics of the fuzzies. Also there is another thread by me from a few days ago where you could see they had grown, but did not have fur yet. "updates on Selena's litter"


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## MsMollyE

Here is a pic of a baby girl (?I think) in my hand, and a pic of Mommy Selena. 

Question, anyone know what I can do about the water bottle when the babies are old enough they need to drink from it?? that is as low as it can go, Selena can reach it but I don't think a 4 week old could...I do have an old wire hamster cage that I intend on using the pieces of to add ventilation to the sides of the bin, if I do that I can hook it up to the wires and lower it, but I'm not quite sure how to do it, I imagine it just requires the appropriate nuts and bolts...any other suggestions?

Also the babies are getting active already they explore all over when I handle them and try to climb up my sleeve and everything. SO cute!

I hope no one yells at me for this, but since all the babies appear to be albino is there a safe way to mark them with like a pet-safe dye or something? I have heard of people dying their pets fur with vet approved dye but I don't know much about this. I want to be able to mark the one(s) I want to keep.


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## LightningWolf

For the water bottle you can get a soldering Iron to make a place for it (and where you can hang it up).

If you want when they are about 2.5 to 3 weeks old you can move them to a wire cage, which 1/2 inch or smaller spacing. you can also get hardware cloth (1/2 or 1/4 mesh) and using a soldering Iron cut out the sides and use zip ties to connect it to the side (you can use a soldering Iron to connect the wire to the plastic as well, but it gets messy so not recommended). If you google Bin cage you can find a lot of tutorials on the side ventilation (which will allow the water bottles) and better hanging of hammocks and climbing.

Yes for the babies if you want you can use animal safe die or washable markers.

Think you can get a picture of all the babies? I love albinos ;D


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## MsMollyE

I will update more pictures soon, I had all the babies out and was playing with them earlier this evening and feeding Selena treats and petting her. Selena still seems fidgety, but not so nippy, and she doesn't seem to mind me handling the babies. I love to just scoop up a bunch of babies and let them wriggle around in my hands and crawl off onto my bed (I don't hold them high up! just rest my hands on the bed!) they are so cute! I'm pretty sure I have nine baby boys and seven baby girls. I'm not an expert sexer when it comes to rodents at this age, I mean once the males grow *ahem* You Know it's easy enough to tell (You'd think! I met a woman once who worked in a pet store and couldn't sex adult mice! I was like...the boys have testicles, that's how you tell. She just said "Oh I didn't think of that"...Srsly?) but I am PRETTY sure about the sexes. I'm just wondering, does it get harder to tell when they grow more fur? or easier because things are more obvious? I'm just wondering if I should mark the boys now while I have a good idea of which is which and not be confused later. They get wrigglier everyday too and that makes it harder to tell.


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## MsMollyE

Ugh, I was just reading another forum where someone asked about using food coloring to dye their rat. Some said it was okay but so many people just were really mean to this person saying they shouldn't even own a pet. I think that's just rude! In a case like mine I'm going to have SEVENTEEN rats that will all essentially look EXACTLY the same, I don't want to color my rat out of vanity, but of necessity I just want to be able to tell them apart so I can develop individual bonds with them more easily! Some people are so dumb and quick to judge that they don't even bother to help. Anyway I was thinking something like Kool-aid would do the trick. Trying to do some more research, but I keep running into bias.


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## Cassia

MsMollyE said:


> Ugh, I was just reading another forum where someone asked about using food coloring to dye their rat. Some said it was okay but so many people just were really mean to this person saying they shouldn't even own a pet. I think that's just rude! In a case like mine I'm going to have SEVENTEEN rats that will all essentially look EXACTLY the same, I don't want to color my rat out of vanity, but of necessity I just want to be able to tell them apart so I can develop individual bonds with them more easily! Some people are so dumb and quick to judge that they don't even bother to help. Anyway I was thinking something like Kool-aid would do the trick. Trying to do some more research, but I keep running into bias.


If it's not going to harm the animal in any way, why not use a bit of food colouring to put on the rats back to be able to identify them? I don't understand why people get so worked up about things like this. It's not doing any harm atall... :/ If it were a full over dye job for fun, I would ask why you'd want to do that to a rat though lol


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## LightningWolf

Some people over react, you should hear some topics on Other forums (luckily none of them are for rats). some of them are quite sad because they all over react.

Anyways, the easiest way to tell at this age is that females have nipples, males don't. If you have any trouble you can post pictures of them on here.

With marking just mark a line either on their tail or get food dye and mark it on their backs. If you run out of colors, you can make patterns. like 1 line for males, 2 line for females. a line for males, a circle for females, ect.


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## MsMollyE

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More pics of the babies as they approach the two week mark. The Time is going by so quickly.


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## LightningWolf

Aw, your not helping my love for Albinos ;D


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## pipsqueak

omg so cute!


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## MsMollyE

Babies are running around the cage like crazy and starting to eat solids like baby cereal with kitten milk replacer. I found a way to lower the water bottle and it's in their reach now, so hopefully they learn to drink from that soon. I saw one checking it out but not drinking. Also can I give them baths? some of them look a bit dirty around the face.


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## LightningWolf

I wouldn't give them baths, they'll get it them self.

Wait, on the face? I think this demands pictures (Who knows..they could be Himis! Yes Himis start out as Albino then around 3 weeks old they develop their points)


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## TheGirls2012

Your babies are SO cute!! I can't believe she has so many! I love all the pictures, they're adorable! You would be one lucky duck if you got Himalayan babies out of this bunch! :O)


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## rattie_lover

Pictures!!!!!!


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## MsMollyE

Haha, I don't think they're hims (I wish!) they seemed to clean up once I cleaned the cage so I think it was just dirt. Plus they all have red eyes, I'm pretty sure that's an albino thing. WISH I could upload pics! They're so cute right now. I can't find my camera anywhere though! My room's a mess! I checked on them a little while ago today and it was so cute, Selena was laying on her back with a pile of babies nursing/snuggling her. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find homes for them, but I did find a nice no-kill shelter that said they will take them if I donate $50 and some cages and they assured me that they will NOT be snake food. And hopefully I will be able to have time to volunteer at the shelter for a while too! it depends on whether or not I pick up this second job at a hotel as guest service and whether I take a class to work towards my bachelors. With all that I'll be very busy. But if I DO get the second job I would have enough money to at least donate supplies to the shelter until the babies get adopted out. I will update pics as soon as I find my camera so you guys can get a last look at them before they go to the shelter. And hopefully I will be keeping Mommy Selena, and one baby girl, who I think I will name Artemis. Oh this reminds me, I gotta run to the store and buy some bins to make cages for the boys. I'm pretty sure tomorrow is their 4 wk birthday! Will update soon! <3


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## Smilebud

They are too cute~ I've been looking for another little boy, where are you located? I hope you're nearby, because I just want to steal them all 


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## Maltey

Regarding marking/dying I know exactly where you're coming from. My litter was slightly smaller (11) but they all looked and still look exactly the same. I kept the 8 girls and to this day I can't tell the difference without their markings (they're now 6 months old). I use Sharpie on their tails. They clean it off after about a week but it's non-toxic and a tiny bit of Sharpie at the base of the tail won't hurt them. 
Vegetable dye is also an alternative, I just picked Sharpie because I could get at least 11 colours in it!!
So basically, I've been using Sharpie for 6 months and not had an issue. I don't think you're a terrible person for wanting to keep track of your rats!


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## binkyhoo

It is great that you found a shelter that would take them. I dont know what I would do with a whole litter of rittens no matter how absolutly cute!

And a dab of food coloring on the back of the neck worked for me when I used to have rabbits.


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## LightningWolf

Wow on the shelter

They can be Himis. the red eyes is not an albino thing. it's a C locus thing (I forgot the Scientific name of it other then C locus). This is where Albino, Himi, And Siamese are. (c/c - Albino, ch/c - Himi, ch/ch - Siamese). They all have red eyes due to the gene dilutes the pigment, But they can have black eyes when you add in the black eye gene (Be/-) which is the Burmese Locus. Is this confusing?

Though we still need pictures, especially for us Albinos lover (*cough* me *cough*)  Oh and how your bin cages turn out.


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## MsMollyE

First one is an older pic when they were a bit smaller, notexactly sure how old 3-4 wks. 2&3 are of the boys who are separated from mommy and sisters now. The rest are of the girls and you can see how mom climbs in and out of her cage to get on my bed. The boys seem to be a bit bigger than the girls. They all seem quite well. I tried making a hammock for the girls the other day but it only lasted a day before they chewed it and it fell down. it was just an experiment anyway. In the next few days all but Selena and one of her daughters will go to the Animal Care Sanctuary, where they assured me they would only go to good homes. The babies are eating all on their own and a pretty much weened now so I guess they are ready. I am going to name the daughter that I keep Artemis. I've had slight problems with fights breaking out....I don't know if this is normal or a sign of things to come, seems to particularly be with the boys, they wrestle and squeak a lot, I don't know if they are fighting or just playing or what? too much testosterone in one cage I think. Uni is about to start back up here which means I'll be getting a lot more hours at my job, so soon I'll buy the girls I'm keeping a proper cage with hammocks and such. I was dreaming about new cages last night! lol! I want something a bit easier to clean, you know with like a tray I can just dump in the trash or something and not have to drag that whole giant bin out to the compost every week. Also, why do they purposefully put bedding in their food dishes? lol. =P I watched one of the boys purposefully throw bedding with his lil front paws into his dish of baby cereal.


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## MsMollyE

Also, someone asked where I'm located...I don't want to give out my exact location publicly, but I am near the NY/PA border so if you're in that vicinity and send me a private message or something, we can talk about adoptions, but I don't know if anyone is in the vicinity. Other wise they will go to the shelter, which I've been told by people in the area is quite good.


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## LightningWolf

It's normal for boys to do that, they are just playing


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## Gannyaan

Do the girls have that brownish cream mixed in with their fur too?! I'm in Detroit.. If you're in the area, ill totally take one off your hands.. But I'm guessing ny pa is quite far


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## MsMollyE

Wish I could get out to detroit for you. I have an uncle there. But seeings how all my money's going toward caring for the babies....can't afford a bus ticket. And you know I am not sure what that brown in Selena's fur is....I was hoping someone else would. When I first got her I thought maybe there was a fight in the rat cage and she some how got blood on her, but its always been there and I tried gently wiping it off with warm water....so idk...But all the babies look pure white, so that's why it confused me. You'd think if it was genetic some of them would have gotten that trait.


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