# Just got my first 2 rats today! A few comments and questions - some nipping/biting



## TheNinja (Aug 6, 2018)

So I've been researching and reading and finally found the perfect match. A pair of female agouti dumbo rats! My kids loved the agouti color the best.

It's very interesting b/c after 10 hours of having they them already appear to have quite different personalities. One (who my kids named Rascal) ....is in fact a little rascal. Already causing mischief running around, climbing, digging all the litter pellets out of the litter box. The other (no name yet) is way more chill and shy, choosing to spend most of her time in the space pod thing for now. I hope she ends up exploring a bit more but maybe she'll end up being the cuddly one?

Anyway a few questions as well, the main one being around nipping and biting. So these rats have been well handled since they were babies. When I got them the lady carried them out to me and seemed comfortable. We were able to play with them on the ride home to my house and they were OK being petted. However after getting them in their cage they seem to be a bit either more aggressive or protective or scared or just confused. But when I put my finger in to pet them they look like they are going to kind of smell my hand but nip at my finger. They did the same to my 8 year old. Then my 4 1/2 year old put his finger by the cage and one of them bite him kind of hard and broke the skin. You could see a little blood but it wasn't gushing blood or bleeding but definitely WAY too hard of a bite.

So now everyone is a little nervous and even me putting my hands in to move things around or scoop up poop they follow my thumb or knuckle and almost want to get at it. Not sure if they want to bite or what. I'm hoping and thinking this might be just b/c they are in a totally new place and it's scary and they might be protective right now. They have been around dogs and cats and loud noises but not around children yet. Should I be concerned at the sudden turn of aggressiveness? I understand she probably bit my 4 1/2 year old b/c his finger was in the cage and maybe smelled like food....or it was protecting it's space. Is this normal for new rats in a new home? Should we just kind of sit by the cage and talk to them and put some tasty treats in there for a while before trying to pet them or put our fingers too close?

Like I said, I know they have been held a lot and socialized so I was/am a bit surprised that they seem to be attacking fingers. Unless they are just playing with their little nips and bit hard on my son b/c it was through the cage. 

Other than than I love watching them explore. We bought a bunch of toys and stuff and of course the kids wanted to put every single toy in there with hardly any room to run around! lol. I was fine with that for a bit while it's new and fun for them. Eventurally we will rotate the toys and introduce things to keep their mind stimulated.

Quick Q's.

1. Also, they are doing OK at atuallly pooping in a little box or at least on 1 area of the cage for now. I have bedding paper type stuff on the floor and then a litter box with yesterday's news pellets in it to try to differentiate between "normal" areas and the bathroom area. Does anyone else have rats that LOVE sitting in the pellets? One of them just sits in there like it's her preferred spot now! lol.

2. I have a 24" high Martin cage, do I need litter box on every one of the levels? they aren't that big to begin with...kind of the ones that are 1/3 the length of the cage. 

3. Is it OK to have the food dish on the 2nd level of the 1/3 length platform? Just trying to give more room on the floor and keep the dish cleaner so we moved it up off the ground for now.

THANKS!


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## Kelsbels (Aug 12, 2015)

Hey Congratulations on your new rats!! 

Baby/ young rats tend to test bite fingers at that age it's like babies putting things in their mouths if you pull away the rats might clamp down a bit more. What I suggest is for you, to allow them to do this to work out that hands are not food. Now with your kids, that won't be too easy since it does seem like an animal is biting. 
This is a great explanation of what I'm saying: https://www.joinrats.com/EarnTrust/RatsUsingTeeth

This is also helpful reading: http://www.isamurats.co.uk/rats-biting-humans.html

We took on our two girls from a family who said they bit, and it was because they never got out of the test biting phase. Sure poke them when they're sleeping and they might actually bite, but they'd never do it without a reason.

I would take them out in a small free-range space and sit with them for a while. Let them interact with you and get acclimated. They will be scared, but rats are very wary of new experiences.


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## writingonwalls (Oct 1, 2016)

Answers to the quick Q's
1. Yes! My rats go as far as eating in their litter boxes. It's their preferred spot and I think they're such weirdos for it lol. I use YN or FN for litter, but they've always done it no matter what I use.

2. That seems a bit short, is the cage deep and wide? I put a litter box on every level of my DCN, but there's an 18"-22" height difference between each of them. In my rat manor I only use one litter box on the bottom. If it's not so tall, then they should be fine using just one.

3. Go for it! If you find they're tipping the food, you can secure it with zip ties or get a food container that clips to the side of the cage.

Rats, especially ones that go through change, can become a bit territorial of a new cage. This has happened with our newest adopted rat. She feels safe in the cage and since she has not become fully tamed with us, she feels threatened when we invade her space. We don't stick our fingers through the bars with her, even though we can with all our other four rats. If you take them into a free-range spot like Kelsbels suggested, it's a more neutral territory that can get better results. Be sure you don't smell like any fragrances or food when you go into their cage. They have good sniffers and are just testing to see if you're food sometimes.

Enjoy your new ratties


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## morsel (Feb 10, 2017)

Just a FYI, my rats always bit my finger if I put it near the front of their heads or face, whether just above their head or directly in front, this happen all the way through their life, so the fix was I just didn't stick my single finger there, they were fine if I scratched their head with my single finger between the ears from above or when I just went and picked them up with my whole hand, but every time I would put a single finger near the front of the face, they would bite me or try to bite me, broke skin only a few times luckily. It was I think more of an instinct thing then anything else with them, they were super sweet rats other then when I did that...Enjoy the new sweet ratties


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## CorbinDallasMyMan (Feb 24, 2017)

Congrats! Agoutis are my favorite as well. 

Like Kelsbels said, young rats can be a bit toothy as they grow to understand their world. If they get a bit bitey with you, they usually start fairly soft rather than chomping down right away. You can pull your finger away while giving off a high "eep" noise to let them know that they've been too rough. If they're quick to nip at your hands when you give them treats, you could give them their treats on a metal spoon so they clang down on metal if they get too bitey.

Odds are, they just need to learn their limits. 

I think one litter box is probably good with the 670. Make sure it's large enough for your rats to easily step all the way into. The corner ferret litter trays work well. As I look over at my boys' cage, 2 of the 3 litter trays are currently acting as lounge beds. At least one of them probably has food stashed in it. 

Be aware that anything that you place on the higher levels could potentially be pushed off if not fastened to the cage. This could cause an issue if anyone happens to be hanging out grooming their whiskers directly below. A food bowl could be totally fine on one of the higher shelves as long as there's minimal risk of it getting pushed off. I keep a ceramic food bowl on a shelf but it's too heavy for my boys to push around.


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## TheNinja (Aug 6, 2018)

Kelsbels said:


> Hey Congratulations on your new rats!!
> 
> Baby/ young rats tend to test bite fingers at that age it's like babies putting things in their mouths if you pull away the rats might clamp down a bit more. What I suggest is for you, to allow them to do this to work out that hands are not food. Now with your kids, that won't be too easy since it does seem like an animal is biting.
> This is a great explanation of what I'm saying: https://www.joinrats.com/EarnTrust/RatsUsingTeeth
> ...


Thank you EVERYONE for the replies so far. This forum has been simply amazing for me to help learn about pet rats and to come ask questions and read other peoples' experiences. I love this place and it's been a huge help. I hope I can pay it forward someday to other new rat owner.

Thanks for the links and I did read those articles. I actually took them into a bathroom tonight b/c I can block the door out and there is no place for them to get out. Plus the floor is linoleum so if they pee or poop I can easily wipe it up. The free range helped though they did NOT want to come out of their cage at first and weren't too interested in treats. Eventually one wandered out of the cage and the other followed. The problem was that even when they were wandering around if I put my hand down they'd eventualy come and lightly bite my fingers or side of my hand. The lightly nibbled my 10 year old sons toe! heh. It didn't hurt but it just makes me nervous and my 8 and 4 1/2 year old wouldn't get on the floor with the rats on the ground. They are scared.


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## TheNinja (Aug 6, 2018)

writingonwalls said:


> Answers to the quick Q's
> 1. Yes! My rats go as far as eating in their litter boxes. It's their preferred spot and I think they're such weirdos for it lol. I use YN or FN for litter, but they've always done it no matter what I use.
> 
> 2. That seems a bit short, is the cage deep and wide? I put a litter box on every level of my DCN, but there's an 18"-22" height difference between each of them. In my rat manor I only use one litter box on the bottom. If it's not so tall, then they should be fine using just one.
> ...


Thanks for the reply! And the rats have been fun sofar. A learning experience for everyone I think.

1. LOL - Silly rats. I think they just like sitting in that corner or it's fun to feel the different material under them? who knows. So far they haven't stunk b/c of it. They poop in the litter box but they also poop everywhere else at this point. I'm hoping they eventually learn. They are so new to the cage now (been in there like 30 hours..heh) I realize it may take sometime.

2. Ya, it's not the biggest cage. I got a really good deal off craiglist and figured it would be a good introductory cage for my family to not take up tooo much room. It fits 2 small young females good for now and it's narrow enough to carry up and down my stairs to the bathroom for free time and to the showers for cage cleaning. I'm trying 1 litter box for now b/c I think the top boxes they'd just kick all the stuff out and make a mess right now..heh. The double CN looks awesome btw!

3. I left the dish on the 2nd floor and they don't seem to have any issue finding the food. They are like little piggies!


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## TheNinja (Aug 6, 2018)

morsel said:


> Just a FYI, my rats always bit my finger if I put it near the front of their heads or face, whether just above their head or directly in front, this happen all the way through their life, so the fix was I just didn't stick my single finger there, they were fine if I scratched their head with my single finger between the ears from above or when I just went and picked them up with my whole hand, but every time I would put a single finger near the front of the face, they would bite me or try to bite me, broke skin only a few times luckily. It was I think more of an instinct thing then anything else with them, they were super sweet rats other then when I did that...Enjoy the new sweet ratties


That's definitely interesting. These 2 little gals will actually turn there heads and either bite lightly or appear like they want to lightly bite, even if I try to pet them from behind. They might just need a little time to calm down. They were hand tame when I got them but seem fearful when I try to pick them up right now. Maybe they have to get used to my scent. That's a cool story that your rats were so sweet though. Like you said, probably just instinct when a nice finger was dangling in front of their face they wnated to take a nibble! heh.


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## TheNinja (Aug 6, 2018)

CorbinDallasMyMan said:


> Congrats! Agoutis are my favorite as well.
> 
> Like Kelsbels said, young rats can be a bit toothy as they grow to understand their world. If they get a bit bitey with you, they usually start fairly soft rather than chomping down right away. You can pull your finger away while giving off a high "eep" noise to let them know that they've been too rough. If they're quick to nip at your hands when you give them treats, you could give them their treats on a metal spoon so they clang down on metal if they get too bitey.
> 
> ...


My kids love the agoutis as well. I was open to all kinds but love these little dumbo agoutis looks right now. It was either these or some dumbo rex blues. 

Anyway, as I mentioned a bit earlier in a post I let them roam free in a bathroom tonight and blocked under the door so they couldn't sneak out. They didn't want to come out of the cage. I sat on the floor and they'd eventually get close to me and take a little cheerio off my lap. But they'd also nibble my finger or hand and lightly bit my 10 year olds' toe. It's like they seriously constantly want to come and playfully nip and bite. It doesn't hurt (other than the 1 bite through the cage which was liekly mistaken identity for food) but as I said it makes everyone, including me, nervous they'll push the limits. So I say no and eek a bit and pull away and withhold treat for a minute or 2. 

They do snatch the treats really agressively and quickly and kind of run away with them. I'm going to eventually try the spoon and the soft/liquid type treats so they HAVE to stay on my lap to eat it. I'll try it without 3 little kids around making noise at first though...heh.

Thanks for the feedback on litter box. The 670 isn't a big cage at all and I have just the "small" litter box. It's fairly tiny for these gals. I mean 1 can fit in it now kind of curled up but when they reach full size they likely won't fit. I guess it's normal for them to hide things and enjoy thier litter boxes..hah. Crazy critters. I'm going to check into the ferret little box.

Good point about stuff on upper levels!! The glass food dish is on the 2nd level but the space pod is directly below the ledge for now. The only other stuff on upper levels are soft things or soft-ish plastic that shouldn't injure. I have a pineapple hammock (my kids' 1 big request was the pineapple hammock...they thought it was the coolest thing ever) but the rats never go in it. Not sure if they can't get to it or don't like it yer.


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## morsel (Feb 10, 2017)

TheNinja said:


> That's definitely interesting. These 2 little gals will actually turn there heads and either bite lightly or appear like they want to lightly bite, even if I try to pet them from behind. They might just need a little time to calm down. They were hand tame when I got them but seem fearful when I try to pick them up right now. Maybe they have to get used to my scent. That's a cool story that your rats were so sweet though. Like you said, probably just instinct when a nice finger was dangling in front of their face they wnated to take a nibble! heh.


Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it, they'll calm down with age and it probably won't be a problem at all after some time. I did have one Rat name Bazil that always did the sneaky little sneak up and would always do those test nibbles, he would sneak up from behind while I was on the ground with all of them and would soft bite the back of my arms, toes or elbow or what ever, it always made me jump and startled us, never hurt or broke skin, but he did it his whole life, we actually found it funny cause he always caught us off guard and would make us jump


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## selk (Feb 25, 2017)

I made sure to hang out with my baby boys with my hands in their cage. Testing what a finger tast


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## selk (Feb 25, 2017)

I just move my hand a little bit out of reach when they nip. It gets them used to the idea of your hands moving of their own free will. If they come close again and I feel they're about to nip I wiggle my finger. This might be scary for them at first, but the more you do it and not chase/hurt them, the more curious they get about this interaction. I have found rats to be easily amused by wiggly things... Of course they'll calm down with age but right now is an awesome time to bond with them using playtime. To initiate play I like poking and nudging their faces/bodies (especially if they're coming at me with their mouth open), bopping them gently on the head (doing this slowly at first to build up their trust of your finger coming up over their heads), running my nail lightly down their tail. Usually sends my ratties sparking around the cage and coming back for more. Eventually you can build up to rubbing your whole hand on them or even being able to roll them onto their tummies for scritches! These beasts are tremendously interactive you just need to spend time with/around them.


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## Sleepy-Rat (Aug 23, 2018)

Yes, the nibbling is totally normal! They are babies after all and like human babies they like to put things in their mouth and figure out if things are edible. If you want to you can sqeak if they nib too hard to let them know that it hurt. And like someone said earlier - DO NOT pull your hand away if they do nib/grab you as that can make them bite harder. Also the new place definitely has a part in their behavior. Talking to them, sitting with them and giving them treats is actually a really good idea, that way they learn your voice and smell and that you're not there to harm them. I'm sure this behavior will settle down with time. I would also make sure that the kids don't get too handsy with them since they most likely don't know how to handle them properly yet which in turn may scare or annoy the the rats, making them nib. Wishing you luck with these new family members!


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## TheNinja (Aug 6, 2018)

Thank you everyone. So they definitely still nip at me a bit but I leave my hand there and they usually just leave it alone. One of them got into my finger a bit too hard and I let her know it! I do'nt want to scare them away though.

I'm having a bit of an issue with actually holding and petting them though. They are very skittish of touch. They've gotten to the point where when I come to the cage they run up and climb to the bars (probably to see if I have treats...lol) but they know I'm there and come say hi. So that's already improvement. But when they are in free play or in cage I can't really even touch them. One, Shadow (my kids named her) is really quite a shadow....always kind of hiding and shy. Rascal is a complete rascal and much more interactive and inquisitive. Anyway Shadow is freaked by humans and come close for treats and will climb on a leg....maybe.. for a good treat but jumps when touched. Rascal will climb more often but only to grab food and leave. Never on her own.

Is that normal for younger rats? I've only had them for 5 days so I have no idea what to expect. I figured I should be at least able to pet or touch them though since the breeder held them a lot since babies. They are only like 7 weeks old though. The kids don't get handsy with them b/c due to the test biting the kids are really scared of them. They are scared of getting their toes nibbled on during free time so they stand on the toilet or the bathroom counter...heh. 

I'm hoping hte more I work with them the more they will allow interaction and touch. I'm not sure if i should force touch or force holding them or let them come to me eventually. I'm working on building the trust through their stomachs right now.  - Also I probably need to just get alone with them in free range area and work with them. I usually have 1 or more kid in there and it can get very noisy and chaotic.


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## Vampiric Conure (Aug 17, 2018)

In my experience, ratties can be pretty wiggly as babies and may just be more interested in playing than sitting and being petted. Especially if you have females. Just keep plugging away at them. They'll reward you with time


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## TheNinja (Aug 6, 2018)

Vampiric Conure said:


> In my experience, ratties can be pretty wiggly as babies and may just be more interested in playing than sitting and being petted. Especially if you have females. Just keep plugging away at them. They'll reward you with time


Thanks! Ya, I probably need a little more patience. I just figured they might be wiggly and wouldn't want to be held but they seem actively scared of me and human contact. They always back away or started if I touch them. They probably just don't know our smell yet and everything is new and overwhelming. They've already gotten better in like 5 days since I had them so hopefully it keeps trending upwards  - I now realize young female rats are bundles or energy and craziness....lol. It's fun. It's funny when they always have to take a little nap after a big playing/free range session.. Like little toddlers they get tuckered out after playing..heh.


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## CorbinDallasMyMan (Feb 24, 2017)

TheNinja said:


> I'm having a bit of an issue with actually holding and petting them though. They are very skittish of touch. They've gotten to the point where when I come to the cage they run up and climb to the bars (probably to see if I have treats...lol) but they know I'm there and come say hi. So that's already improvement. But when they are in free play or in cage I can't really even touch them...
> 
> I'm hoping the more I work with them the more they will allow interaction and touch. I'm not sure if i should force touch or force holding them or let them come to me eventually. I'm working on building the trust through their stomachs right now.  - Also I probably need to just get alone with them in free range area and work with them. I usually have 1 or more kid in there and it can get very noisy and chaotic.


Even after they get comfortable with you, they may still not be into being held or getting pet. ...or at least not right away.

Young rats, especially females, want to run around all the time. I haven't had females in a very long time but my males don't usually slow down to the point of enjoying scritches for a very long time. Once they're comfortable with you, they will tolerate being held or carried but most rats I've had don't want to spend any time in my hands. I had one old grumpy rat who would only occasionally let me pet him and only on his terms. Even still, I at least try to pet my boys all the time, even when they don't want it 

To get them more used to you, you could try shoulder training, or you could keep them tucked into your shirt or a robe that's tied off at the waist. During play time, I only give my boys treats if they're on my lap. This encourages them to get comfortable climbing on me/being close to me. I also regularly pick up and set down new rats so they get used to being handled and learn that nothing scary is going to happen.


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## selk (Feb 25, 2017)

I'm not sure whether this forum no longer agrees with this philosophy of rat training but I've always had incredible transformations with immersion: https://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?67442-Immersion-Training-The-Guide /shrug


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## TheNinja (Aug 6, 2018)

CorbinDallasMyMan said:


> Even after they get comfortable with you, they may still not be into being held or getting pet. ...or at least not right away.
> 
> Young rats, especially females, want to run around all the time. I haven't had females in a very long time but my males don't usually slow down to the point of enjoying scritches for a very long time. Once they're comfortable with you, they will tolerate being held or carried but most rats I've had don't want to spend any time in my hands. I had one old grumpy rat who would only occasionally let me pet him and only on his terms. Even still, I at least try to pet my boys all the time, even when they don't want it
> 
> To get them more used to you, you could try shoulder training, or you could keep them tucked into your shirt or a robe that's tied off at the waist. During play time, I only give my boys treats if they're on my lap. This encourages them to get comfortable climbing on me/being close to me. I also regularly pick up and set down new rats so they get used to being handled and learn that nothing scary is going to happen.


I was able to spend a bunch of time alone (no other humans or kids around) with them today and things went overall pretty good. I think I also realized that the type of treat I give them will "motivate" them a bit more. For example I had some extra chicken and they LOVED it compared to cheerios and normal treats! Man they love meat! lol.

Anyway. I like the idea that they only get treats if they come up on my lap to get the treats for now. I also spent a little time hand wrestling with them and playing. They are getting overall better at not just biting my fingers. They test bit and I just left my hand there and hoped they didn't chomp down. If they bit my fingers they got no treat. If they treated me nice they got atreat.. Though one of them did test bit or play bite too hard today and drew blood. Just a tiny pinprick and like 2 drops of blood but still unacceptable. I left my hand there and she noticed the blood and licked it a bit......hopefully she realized it was too hard. 

I am still giving them some treats while they are in their cage b/c I don't trust them out yet and don't want to take them to a rat safe room for all their treats. But now I make them climb into my hand and get the treat from the palm of my hand. THEY have to come to the opening to me if they want the treat. No having me stick the treat between my fingers and "give" it to them. Rascal caught on VERY quickly and now ignores biting my fingers and thumb and just eats out of my palm. Shadow is a bit more hesitant....no longer bites but doesn't like coming to my hand to get treats.....but she will learn as Rascal gets more treats right now. Though I did notice Shadow just found Rascal's stash of treats later and stole a few.....which resulted in a little tussling around but nothing serious or over agressive.

I guess I have to remember what you said about rats, especially female, that they may not love to be held right now or ever. They are basically toddlers/puppies at the moment going 100 MPH until they crash out and need a nap. When the weather cools a bit I'll wear an old sweatshirt and see if the want to hide in the pouch


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## TheNinja (Aug 6, 2018)

selk said:


> I'm not sure whether this forum no longer agrees with this philosophy of rat training but I've always had incredible transformations with immersion: https://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?67442-Immersion-Training-The-Guide /shrug



Ya, I don't know if that's accepted or agreed here but I like a lot of the philosphy behind it. I have to remember that I am the alpha. Me and the other humans are in charge. I know I can be in charge. I hope they don't end up viewing any or all of my kids as below them in the pecking order. I can make a stand so to speak and let em know who's boss  but the kids are a bit scared yet. 

I like the idea of immersion though. I'm more familiar with dog packs but rats sound similar. They like to know their place in the pack. Even if we think it's demeaning or don't want to be the lowest they seem to be OK with it and it's comforting for animals to know where they stand and to trust the alpha to protect them and keep law and order.


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## TheNinja (Aug 6, 2018)

I've had them about 2 weeks and they've gotten MUCH better with the biting and nibbling, especially with me. I had to go through a few nervous phases of having my toes and fingers just hanging in teh open and they'd come and bite them. I stopped pulling it away, I usually responded with a firm "NO!" and they stopped.

Now they don't really bite. In fact I had cheese dust from a cheese flavored cracker on my fingers and one of the rats actually licked the cheese dust off! lol. They will once in a while test with a small bite but not hurting or breaking skin. 

Now I'm trying to teach them not to bite anything that's poked through their cage. I don't feed them through the cage but I have kids and they have friends that come over. I'll tell them not to put fingers by the cage but you know that kids will be kids. So I alternate with food, fingers, a spoon, something metal, playing through the cage, etc. The funny thing is one of them rarely bites through the cage now, she will use her front paws to grab and play with whatever I put by the cage. The other will usually sniff....though the other day she bite onto the back of my finger. If I had pulled away I might have ripped a little skin, but I just held it there as she tried to pull it into the cage until I said "NO", then she let go. No skin was broken, just a little indentation on my skin for 30 minutes...heh.

They still don't like to be held or touched much yet as they are way to hyper and way to active when out of their cage. But they'll approached people and climb all over looking for treats and playing and stuff. They always great me by the cage door hoping for treats and to be let out!


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