# Doing my best for a sick rat... & nebulizer question?



## akihba (Apr 26, 2014)

My boy Blue Jay has been sick for a while with what the vet says is pneumonia caused by Myco. It started in June when it was mild, and medication prescribed by the vet (Baytril + Vibramycin) helped him get better, but when it ran out he started getting worse. I went back for more medication in July but it didn't help him improve at all. A couple of days ago I went back to discuss another options. The vet told me that at this stage the pneumonia is pretty advanced and the vet says that the damage to his lungs is permanent. He suggested that euthanasia might be something I'd have to consider. I've spent a long time thinking things over and wondering what is best for him. 

Right now I am giving him as much attention and care as possible, and I have him sit with me for most of the day since it's what he wants (when I open the cage he'll walk over to me and climb up on my shoulder). He eats more food and drinks water more frequently when he's with me rather than when he's in his cage for some reason, so I give him water and feed him a variety of soft food throughout the day to keep food in his system. So far he really likes yogurt and baby food. I weighted him last night and he gained two grams since his last vet visit so I'm hoping he keeps up the weight gain. 

I have a nebulizer set up and I use 0.3 ML Baytril to 3 ML saline solution. I have had him in the nebulizer for 10 minute treatments morning and night for the past three days but this morning he seemed to be distressed during the treatment so I cut it out and took him out. Should I continue the nebulization with Baytril, but find a bigger container where he'll be more comfortable or just drop the nebulizer treatment? 

Sorry if I'm talking about things all over the place, I'm trying to think of what I want to say and what information you guys need to hear. The vet gave me another medication called Tribrissen which he doubts will work but wants me to try anyway, along with the Vibramycin and Baytril. Should I continue all three medications? I just realized that I never had him on Doxycycline, which seems to be effective with rats who have this disease... Should I call back and ask for that medicine/find another vet who will prescribe that or is it not worth it? 

So basically, I'm looking for answers on a few things. 
- Do you guys have any suggestions as to what to feed him to keep his weight and energy up? 
- Nebulizier = good or useless? 
- Medication- continue or drop Baytril + Vibramycin + Tribrissen, or call the vet and ask for Doxycycline and use that along with Baytril?
- Is there anything else I can do for him to make him as comfortable as possible? 
- Any other tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.

As for euthanasia, I've decided to give him until Labor Day weekend. If he continues to lose weight and breathing does not improve, I'm going to have him put to sleep.


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## StonerGirlandHerRatties (Aug 25, 2015)

I'm still a new rattie mom so I don't have much advice to give but for keeping the weight up maybe try giving some soy milk, anything like brazilnuts, sunflower seeds, whole wheat bred ect, stuff with a lot of fiber and a few callories just make sure not to over do it or you'll have a little chubby rattie :3 wish you and blue jay the best of luck <3


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## akihba (Apr 26, 2014)

StonerGirlandHerRatties said:


> I'm still a new rattie mom so I don't have much advice to give but for keeping the weight up maybe try giving some soy milk, anything like brazilnuts, sunflower seeds, whole wheat bred ect, stuff with a lot of fiber and a few callories just make sure not to over do it or you'll have a little chubby rattie :3 wish you and blue jay the best of luck <3


Haha, a chubby rattie would be a dream. He is REALLY skinny, as in you can feel his bones. I feel so, so, so awful that he's at this really low point in his weight. He does not eat anything that is fairly solid since it's hard for him to eat and breathe at the same time, so I mostly give him food that he can lap up or is really easy to chew. Thank you though!


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## StonerGirlandHerRatties (Aug 25, 2015)

Have you tried homemade fresh or frozen veggy smoothies and juices? Using things with higher vitamins and stuff, could even fatten it up with dried oats or small seeds. Sounds awful poor little guy  I have the opposite issue with my oldest, he eats all the littleuns food and refuses to get any exercise no matter what i try, hes also over 2years old now so his mobility is so limited, hes constantly falling off hommock ect so my cage is kitted out with about 6 ladders but it doesnt help


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## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

I'm sorry your boy isn't feeling well, I'll try to answer some of your questions. 
- Feed high calorie foods with good fats. Infant soy formula, avocado, nuts, nutrical (kitten or puppy). Try to avoid too many veggies (you want him to gain weight, not explode with poop lol). Don't opt for sweet foods like fruits unless he hasn't eaten anything and needs the quick energy from sugars.
-I've never used a nebulizer, so I'm not sure if it works or not. I know some people here have, so maybe they'll chime in.
-Vibramycin is doxycycline if I'm not mistaken. The real question is, is he getting all of the meds and are they the proper dose. There's an upper and lower limit to medications and it could be that he's not getting an effective dose.
-People swear by bits of chocolate and honey to ease respiratory symptoms. I typically use a children's decongestant, but that's with upper respiratory problems and I'm not sure it'd have any effect on pneumonia.
-My medication combination of choice is amoxicillin and baytril. You can ask your vet for amoxi, but they may not give it to you (long story); you can also order it online from any place that sells fish antibiotics (mine is called fish mox from revivalanimal.com)


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## akihba (Apr 26, 2014)

kksrats said:


> I'm sorry your boy isn't feeling well, I'll try to answer some of your questions.
> - Feed high calorie foods with good fats. Infant soy formula, avocado, nuts, nutrical (kitten or puppy). Try to avoid too many veggies (you want him to gain weight, not explode with poop lol). Don't opt for sweet foods like fruits unless he hasn't eaten anything and needs the quick energy from sugars.
> -I've never used a nebulizer, so I'm not sure if it works or not. I know some people here have, so maybe they'll chime in.
> -Vibramycin is doxycycline if I'm not mistaken. The real question is, is he getting all of the meds and are they the proper dose. There's an upper and lower limit to medications and it could be that he's not getting an effective dose.
> ...


Thank you for the food suggestions! I have some of those things around here and will pick up the rest tomorrow. 

As for the medication doses, the vet based it on his weight. So for Tribrissen he gets 0.2 ML. Vibramycin, 0.2 ML; and 0.1 ML of Baytril. Is that appropriate dosing? 
Also, if I get fish mox, how much of that and Baytril should I dose?


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## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

The doses would also depend on the concentrations at which they were compounded (may or may not be on the bottle). I would call the vet and see if you can up the dose with what you have. The dose for amoxi is 10mg/lb. Baytril is a little harder, see here http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/enrofloxacin_baytril.php. I actually do baytril in the water bottle, but that would require you to have the clear liquid form and close observation to make sure your rat is still drinking.


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## Sabatea (Aug 23, 2014)

I've used a nebulizer for Neera and she was distressed in the chamber as well... I did see an improvement after using it, not anything major, but it knocked it back to a stable condition. She still sneezes a lot, but it's never flared up again. If your rat is afraid of the chamber, you could take the nozzle itself and just move the mist to follow her nose. This seemed to make Neera feel better about it. I just put her on the counter so she couldn't run away and then I turned the nebulizer on and kept the nozzle pointed directly at her nose/mouth for the duration of her medicating.


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## akihba (Apr 26, 2014)

kksrats said:


> The doses would also depend on the concentrations at which they were compounded (may or may not be on the bottle). I would call the vet and see if you can up the dose with what you have. The dose for amoxi is 10mg/lb. Baytril is a little harder, see here http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/enrofloxacin_baytril.php. I actually do baytril in the water bottle, but that would require you to have the clear liquid form and close observation to make sure your rat is still drinking.


Thank you, I will give the vet a call. The Baytril I have is in liquid form but it's not entirely clear liquid, it looks a little bit cloudy. The bottle does not have the concentration listed on it so I'll discuss that with the vet also. Blue Jay isn't drinking enough water for me to be able to do Baytril in it, and I also have two other rats in the same cage so I'll keep giving it orally since it's the only way I can get him to take it.


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## akihba (Apr 26, 2014)

Sabatea said:


> I've used a nebulizer for Neera and she was distressed in the chamber as well... I did see an improvement after using it, not anything major, but it knocked it back to a stable condition. She still sneezes a lot, but it's never flared up again. If your rat is afraid of the chamber, you could take the nozzle itself and just move the mist to follow her nose. This seemed to make Neera feel better about it. I just put her on the counter so she couldn't run away and then I turned the nebulizer on and kept the nozzle pointed directly at her nose/mouth for the duration of her medicating.


I'll try that, thank you!


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## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

akihba said:


> Thank you, I will give the vet a call. The Baytril I have is in liquid form but it's not entirely clear liquid, it looks a little bit cloudy. The bottle does not have the concentration listed on it so I'll discuss that with the vet also. Blue Jay isn't drinking enough water for me to be able to do Baytril in it, and I also have two other rats in the same cage so I'll keep giving it orally since it's the only way I can get him to take it.


I'm sorry, I was assuming you had separated him since he's sick. Definitely better to do the oral doses if he's still housed with others. Good luck with the vet; let us know how it goes and how Blue Jay is doing.


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## akihba (Apr 26, 2014)

kksrats said:


> I'm sorry, I was assuming you had separated him since he's sick. Definitely better to do the oral doses if he's still housed with others. Good luck with the vet; let us know how it goes and how Blue Jay is doing.


I keep him in with his two brothers, Arrow and Puck, because they don't bother him and they help to groom him sometimes since he can't do much himself. Arrow also has pneumonia, but his right now isn't so bad compared to Blue Jay's. Puck is completely fine. 

I called the vet office but the rats' doctor is out today so he will give us a call as soon as possible regarding the dosing. The receptionist I talked to said to not increase their dosage right now since it is based on their weight and she doesn't want to mess with that. She also notified me that the concentration of the Baytril is 2.27. When the vet calls me back I will ask about increasing their dosage and also using Baytril along with Amoxicillin.


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## luvmy4rats (Nov 29, 2013)

You are trying very hard to make a miracle happen. I get that and did the same thing when I dealt with rattie pneumonia for the first time. For rats who need to gain weight and can eat on their own I've created a recipe called Rat Mash which is below. As far as your rat's comfort level, check to see if he is mouth breathing or not. I think when they get to the stage where they are presenting with laboured breathing along with mouth breathing it's best not to let the rat suffer. My first rat suffered with this for 21 days because I did not want to let her go. My second rat suffered for 24 hours and I had her pts and felt relief that she no longer had to suffer. At this point my second rat wasn't eating, was refusing meds, and was loosing condition rapidly. 

At the time of my girl's pts appointment, I also was going to have another rat pts who was also presenting with laboured breathing without mouth breathing. The vet listened to him and said he would not put him down stating my rat has a heart murmur. However, with my pneumonia rat he took one look at her and got things rolling for pts. If you take your boy in to have him pts and the vet feels it's not a good idea, it won't be done.

In the meantime you can feed your rat Rat Mash and alter the recipe to how you feel is fit. If he is able to eat on his own, soak lab blocks and add it to the Rat Mash. For assist feeding only use the recipe below since soaked mashed lab blocks clog 1cc syringes.

*Rat Mash **

Baby brown rice cereal
Instant quinoa cereal
Baby beef food 
Olive oil (or flax oil, etc.)
Acidophillus (to help aid in digestion)
Filtered water or almond milk or soy milk
Ground flax or oat bran (for fiber to help with poops)
Molasses (just a couple of drops)

When adding liquid ingredients, mix to a consistency your rat enjoys. In the case of assist feeding mix to a consistency that can be drawn up into a syringe. 

*


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