# Is this a normal introduction?



## Reflex (Jan 6, 2008)

So I had gotten a new male rattie so maybe Charlie could have a cagemate. I put them in a large round tub, Charlie immediately tried to dominate by climbing, tugging and sniffing, humping, and urinating on him. The other male squeaked untill they got into a large tussle, spinning and flipping, and Charlie had started it. Immediately afterward, the rat being introduced to him stood there and let charlie do what he wanted without a peep. He seemed obviously very nervous.Could this behavior change with later introduction or do you think it will get worse? I plan on putting them in that tub to meet eachother about 10 minutes a day untill they can feel more comfortable with eachother.
These pictures I took after the tussle, notice the new rat doesn't move... (btw, charlie looks really puffed up mostly because he is a rex but yes he did fluff up quite a bit as well)


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Puffing up the fur indicates some amount of aggression. I would take this very slowly to keep the new boy from getting hurt.


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## Reflex (Jan 6, 2008)

Alright. My new guy is very wary with everything but you can already tell he's such a sweetheart, and I would like them to get along eventually, I would really hate to have to house him alone, before I got him he was with 4 other rats and you could tell he enjoyed having them with him, but now he isn't as outgoing without the others. What steps do you think I should take? Do you think Charlie will ever accept him?


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

3 questions

how long was he on his own

how long have you had the new rat & how long has he been on his own


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## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

Give them distractions like new toys, a new kind of bedding so the focus is not just on the new rat. I would not add treats since that can be a reason to fight. But you could give Charlie a treat when he behaves well so he learns to associate the new comer with something positive. Introduce them to each other outside your own home to prevent territorial behavior from Charlie. Even though the tub might be neutral, the smell of your home will be his "own".
Give them time unless things are getting very serious. Observe them closely for at least an hour. 
Give Charlie ample exercise and distraction before introducing him to the new rat so the peak of energy is gone.
If nothing works maybe you can find them both another buddy.
Hope this helps, keep us updated because we all learn from that.


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## Reflex (Jan 6, 2008)

Okay. I do not have any extra supplies for housing another rat in a different cage, as I wasn't planning on it anyway. I believe I will be forced to get rid of one of them, and right now I am seriously considering getting rid of charlie, because the reason why i want a cagemate for him was to have a distraction from my girl rats, set across the room from them (they cannot leave my room, they are not allowed to) 
Charlie is obsessed with them. He doesn't even like to be held anymore, even when I'm not in my room or anywhere near them, he just wants to find a way to get to them. He is not social anymore because of this.

I put the tub in a whole different room that charlie had not ever been in before, and put toys all over. He kept urinating all over the toys and circled around the other rat. He then did something i hadnt seen before, he grabbed onto him, climbed on him, put the new rats face to his testis, and made odd huffing sounds. I then interccepted and puit them back. I will not be trying this again.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

I would not get rid of Charlie. He's your pet and your responsibility. He's aggressive. The presence of the girls is likely making him moreso. He believes they ought to be his mates so he's fighting for them.

It sounds like he may require a neuter. Have you read the instructions on introductions or quarentine at all?


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## Reflex (Jan 6, 2008)

The problem is that, not only do I have that kind of money for an optional vet visit, even if I did, I am not allowed to take them other than for euthanasia. I have tried many times to convince my mom otherwise, but so far, nothing.


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## Reflex (Jan 6, 2008)

The problem is that, not only do I have that kind of money for an optional vet visit, even if I did, I am not allowed to take them other than for euthanasia. I have tried many times to convince my mom otherwise, but so far, nothing.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

ok, you get rid of Charlie & then what becomes of the new guy

In steps new intact lone male smelling the girlies down the hall

If the intros aren't working then you have to separate them before someone gets hurt. If you are not going to get the proper cage for both rats then you obviously need to find better suited homes for them. 

I'm not going to lecture about the moral of pet ownership because it isn't my place to do so & obviously your parents share a much different view on proper care than a lot of us here.

You need to research this area & come up with your own decisions & choices about the livelihood of your current pets & any & all future pets you may have.

I'll give you one tip. You have to hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

In this case the best would have been... the boys would have gotten along & we wouldn't even be having this conversation. 

In the case of the worst, you should have already had a proper cage for your new rat because he should have already been living in it for the last few weeks during his quarantine. When the intro went bad he could have been returned there. I have a personal policy now that I will only adopt new rats in pairs. If I am adding a cage mate for a lone rat I still bring in two rats. I do this to make sure any new rat coming in does not end up with the same fate of being all on its own during QT or if the intros go wrong.

Did you try bathing the rats?
Smearing something tasty on them so they like it off from each other?
Doing an intro in a larger space than confined to a tub that may be scary in the first place. Rats really don't care for the whole tub thing because they can't see anything but up. Up is out & that might be their motivation much more than, Hey new dude, how's it hanging?

If you do decide this is more than you can handle & finding a new home looks to be the only resolve... then don't keep just one male because you will most likely just end up in the same situation with yet another rat.

I wish you the best


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## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

please find them both another home if you don't have the resources and the support of your parent(s) to take care of them and their health. Just promise yourself you'll be getting rats when you are on your own and able to take care of rats I did that when I was a kid and was never allowed to have a dog. Well. as soon as I was on my own I got my first dog. I know that will help you. You have to put the animal's welfare first.


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## Reflex (Jan 6, 2008)

I do have the resources to give my rats a healthy home, please don't get me wrong. I am not getting rid of charlie, I was just upset when I posted and thus said things I didn't mean.

What I meant by that I can't take them to the vet other than euthanasia is that I cannot go for optional surgeries (neutering), not only because my mom won't let me "spend money on something that only will be effective for a few years till he dies", but most vets around here won't even do it, and I would have to drive out an hour and a half away, and them pay $150 for a neuter. but if they were sick, of course I would take them to the vet no matter what it takes! I will be getting a job and my permit very soon.

I have convinced my mom to let charlie live in her room. That way he wont be so driven to get to my girls and hopefully then he will be back to his loving self.


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## Reflex (Jan 6, 2008)

I am surprised what something as simplae as a move can do.

He spent his first night in my mom's room and he is already starting to kiss me and brux at me; something he hasn't done for quite some time.

I think him living in my mom's room will do the trick.

Thanks for all of your advice


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