# Biting scared rats



## keykaye (Jun 11, 2015)

I've had these girls that i adopted on october 21, and I'm having issues with them.. They do not allow me to pick them up easily, and can be nippy when i go to give them food. Also one of the girls who my biggest issue with is super bitey, I will go to pet and pick up my one girl who is social that iv had for 4 years and she will bite my fingers if she's sleeping with her, i tried to give them pasta noodles just now and she lunged forward for my hand and bit a small hole in my finger, i know she didn't mean it because she ran off once i said "ow" loudly and jerked back.. but i don't know what to do, she lunged forward any time i try to give her treats and i git bit by her a lot, but this is the first time she's bitten hard enough to draw blood. I adopted these girls from EARPS and i like the lady who i got them from a lot, but i don't think she socialized with them at all and it makes me a little disappointed.. we have a 6 year old in my house and i don't want him getting nipped at when he goes to play with our original girl or gives her treats through the cage bars.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I tend to agree with your assessment that your new rats haven't been properly socialized or perhaps they have even been neglected or abused. It's hard to know...

Biting and nipping is something that simply can not be tolerated in a pet domestic rat regardless of their history. A pair of welding gloves of oven mitts might be a good idea to start with, than take a look at my immersion guide for some ideas on how to address the issue.

Hopefully you won't have to go the extreme route, but it will depend on how your rat responds to the nice approach. Rats are social animals and they need to understand that they are part of your family now and that there are rules. Part of immersion is establishing healthy social order in your household, but remember it's mostly about communication and building understanding... The object of the exercise is not to bully your rats into submission, it's to get them to understand their place in your household and perhaps most importantly to lay the foundation that a healthy loving relationship can be built on... Although sometimes it can get down to tough love, the emphasis is on the love part...

Best luck.


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## new_rattie_mommy (Aug 24, 2014)

This kind of goes off what rat daddy said and I totally agree with his immersion training. Some of my rats didn't require it and I used trust training but one is real tough and sassy. She likes to bite me just for fun or I guess to test my authority and when I get nipped I always pick her up right away and don't let her go and pet her somewhat roughly. I am asserting that I am the boss and it won't be tolerated and she usually knocks it off after that. U can't show hesitation or fear. Also bopping on the nose and saying no sometimes helps.


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## Ratloved (Oct 4, 2015)

EARPS is a rescue organization not a breeder. Judy works constantly for the welfare of the ratties in her care. I was the the day after 60-70 rats were just left on her doorstep. She didn't complain, she just took care of them. Some of the rats there are born there and have been socialized but some they just don't know where they came from or how they were treated. I am starting this conversation this not because I am mad, but I do believe you are blaming Judy and it is simply not her fault. That said, EARPS will take back any animal to either rehome or place in sanctuary for the entirety of their lives if they have health or emotional issues that can't be fixed. Call her/email her I am sure she will work with you in your situation.


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## MJ502 (Oct 27, 2015)

Well said Ratloved. I am sure that this can be handled!  I too adopted from EARPS and I had a great experience. 




Ratloved said:


> EARPS is a rescue organization not a breeder. Judy works constantly for the welfare of the ratties in her care. I was the the day after 60-70 rats were just left on her doorstep. She didn't complain, she just took care of them. Some of the rats there are born there and have been socialized but some they just don't know where they came from or how they were treated. I am starting this conversation this not because I am mad, but I do believe you are blaming Judy and it is simply not her fault. That said, EARPS will take back any animal to either rehome or place in sanctuary for the entirety of their lives if they have health or emotional issues that can't be fixed. Call her/email her I am sure she will work with you in your situation.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

In case I was misunderstood, I'm certainly not blaming anyone at EARPS for neglecting or abusing any rat or rats... I don't know this rescue personally or by reputation. But rescues do sometimes adopt rats from unfortunate situations where bad things may have happened to them.

I'm sure some rescue workers do spend countless hours properly socializing rats they take in, and perhaps some don't. And different rats react differently to different people and in different situations.

Generically, from what I read, the subject rats seem not to be properly socialized, but I certainly didn't mean to cast dispersion on anyone in particular for this situation. 

The folks that know EARPS seem to have a lot of respect and confidence in the person or people there, which makes me feel like if you call the rescue they may be of additional help.

Best luck.


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

new_rattie_mommy said:


> This kind of goes off what rat daddy said and I totally agree with his immersion training. Some of my rats didn't require it and I used trust training but one is real tough and sassy. She likes to bite me just for fun or I guess to test my authority and when I get nipped I always pick her up right away and don't let her go and pet her somewhat roughly. I am asserting that I am the boss and it won't be tolerated and she usually knocks it off after that. U can't show hesitation or fear. Also bopping on the nose and saying no sometimes helps.


There are two types of Immersion:

1.Regular Immersion is very gentle. It is just putting you/your family together with your rat/s in a small area and getting acquainted. You approach the rat and let it respond. You try to communicate to the rat that you are there to feed, love and protect it and read the responding communication from the rat til you hopefully understand and trust each other. Most rats respond well and quickly to this method. 

2.Extreme Immersion is only for aggressive, biting rats. It is not so gentle. You try to communicate to your rat that you are the boss and that biting will not be tolerated. This is only used on biting rats.

I was afraid that I would have to use the extreme method with Petey who was a rat of 4+ months who had never been handled and was biting when I got him, but after trying the regular immersion for a few days, I realized he was just frightened and so we continued with regular immersion and I am very happy with the result. Immersion typically is done in longer sessions and is more hands on than regular trust training, but it is a very gentle method, and depends on communication between you and your rat.


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## keykaye (Jun 11, 2015)

i wasn't blaming anyone, i love judi i think she's a awesome person. I even text and talk to her every now and then, my only thing is maybe some rats just got more hands on attention then others because of her job and the fact she had so many, the three girls i got came out of the cage that had the most in them. I tried to read the immersion guide but i really didn't find clear instructions, so what i have been doing is finding the biting girl asleep inside of a turtle tunnel in the cage, then taking the turtle out and laying it out on a bed or floor so i can handle her. She doesn't bit but she does tend to be clingy and shakes bit.. i feel bad I'm hoping after time the shaking will stop and she will see I'm not a bad person. I can tell they all three want to be out of the cage, they sniff outside the doors and try to sneak out by climbing up the doors but will not let me pick them up.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

The immersion thread covers all types of rats, so it's a matter of choosing the right methods that fit to your rats. But basically you start off getting on the floor with them in a small area and getting to know them and understand them, likewise they get to know you. Then you try reaching out to them with bribes, movements soft speech or whatever it takes for them to get comfortable with you and to start to understand that you are their friend. Rather than doing short hit and run sessions, you do longer sessions so that they have time to get over the newness of the area and their panic and really have some time to explore you and bond with you... the rest is in the thread...

It's a method of building a relationship through actual communication and understanding between intelligent beings.


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

A rat can hold a fear response for 20 minutes before he relaxes enough to understand you are not hurting or going to hurt him, so sessions ideally will be longer than 30 minutes. Sessions longer than an hour work very well.

As far as taking her out in her hide. I had two little girls that hid in tissue boxes and stuffed the opening with loose tissues. I took the box out with them in it and talked to the box til they got curious enough to stick their noses out of the box. Then I petted the nose til little by little over a few days I was able to give treats, pet the whole head and eventually they stopped using the boxes.


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## Yummy (Jan 18, 2015)

You mentioned your girls are nippy with food...

If you haven't already thought of or tried this, I would suggest you help them learn the difference between food and your fingers with a little baby food or yogurt. Just put a dollop on your finger and let them lick it off. They may nip or bite at first, and even try to run off with your finger, but in my experience it doesn't take them long at all to realize the difference between food and fingers after a few trials. That said, my experience may be limited, and I have never had an extremely difficult rat to work with.


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## keykaye (Jun 11, 2015)

Well the girl that bit into my finger will nip me if I just present her my hand. I have one if the bonding scarf things and I'm going to use it so she can be close to me but not really touching as well as the bed thing. I'm a tad to chicken to do the yogurt thing.. rat teeth hurt.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I feed our girls through the bars, and play tug of war and hand wrestle and I get my fingers chomped on a lot... but even though their teeth are razor sharp, and they are really excited, I never actually get nipped or bitten and it never hurts. We play tug of war with tissue paper and they rarely if ever tear the paper...

Rats have awesome control of their teeth... unless your rats are brain damaged or particularly otherwise challenged, if you are getting nipped or bitten or they are otherwise hurting you... you can safely assume it's on purpose and address it as an intentional attack.


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## Yummy (Jan 18, 2015)

Yes indeed, their teeth can hurt. Once bitten twice shy as they say, so I don't blame you if you're not ready to try the yogurt. And depending on her reason for biting, she may not be ready either.

For what it's worth, I have a brand new pair of young males right now, one of which is noticeably more "nippy" than his brother. In his case, he is not doing it out of aggression, or fear, it is just his way of checking things out - with his teeth. Not hard bites that break the skin, but enough pressure to be uncomfortable. He did this every time I would put my hand in. Hand feeding them as I described helped teach him to lick first rather than nip first.

But again, your girl has a different background and might be doing it for different reasons than mine. The bonding scarf might be just what she needs for now until she feels more settled and comfortable.


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