# HELP! Please!



## AnimalLover1393 (Apr 29, 2015)

Sorry this might be a little long I tend to ramble but I really need some advice. I have an older rat, Bernard, who is nearing 2 years old. a while ago I got two new babies and today I started intros (I'd like Bernard and the babies to live together). At first I started with bathtub intros and let Bernard meet each baby separately. That went pretty well! Remy is a little more nervous than Oliver and would squeak every once in a while and Oliver ran all around the tub and all over Bernard and Bernard seemed just fine with both babies. While doing to the tub intros I was reading about the carrier method and decided that might be a good idea. I set the carrier in the tub and let all three rats explore it together and they seemed to be enjoying one another. once they had all climbed into the carrier together I shut the door and took them outside for a change in smells and scenery and they seemed to be getting along just fine. I read that car rides are a good idea if you're doing the carrier method so I decided to give that a shot. I drove for about 20-30 minutes and by the time I got home all three boys were asleep together. I bring them inside and let them hang out in the carrier for about another hour and a half and they seemed to be fine so I decided I would try to move them to the cage. When I opened the carried door they all three ran into the cage together and they explored. Now Remy has started to be really nervous around Bernard and he squeaks whenever Bernard touches him. And also when the babies come near Bernard he seems to ignore them and doesn't really wanna be bothered by them and just kinda kicks them away with his back feet. When he does try to interact with them it's usually only to pin them and groom them which scared the living crap out of Remy. Oliver just squeaks and rolls over and waits for Bernard to finish. The two babies (I didn't get them at the same time but they came from the same placce and I believe the same cage? but they're not siblings) are already cuddled up in the corner but Bernard is in the opposite corner just kinda doing his own thing. They've been in the cage for about an hour.

I really just want to know If I should be concerned about any of this behavior or if this is just typical and I'm being a worrisome rat mom.






Bernard






Oliver (left) Remy (right)


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## AnimalLover1393 (Apr 29, 2015)

Also, now that they've been in the cage for a while. Is it okay for me to leave the house for a couple of hours?


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

I had a similar situation when I was attempting to introduce three 6 month old rats to my resident rats that were significantly younger.
(It was like a backward introduction.) This was the only introduction that failed for me..

I just got the sense that my Resident rats were unhappy... 

A Few questions:

How big is your cage?
(Do you have two levels? If you're going out, maybe you should separate the two little ones whilst they're not being supervised..)

In this particular situation, I would try a longer introduction. Sometimes it can take 5 seconds to introduce a rat to others, sometimes significantly longer.. 

Maybe when you have some more time, set them all on your lap. This way the older one will have to pay attention to the babies and it will give you more time to supervise them. **Your lap is not a neutral zone, keeping in mind** Well, it's not if your older rat is on you all of the time.. So he'll have to learn to like your little ones.

I can only give a brief message as I am at work, but if you have any questions.. Feel free to PM me. I've done multiple successful intros.

Yogurt is your best friend, too.. You could put yogurt on your fingers and allow for your 3 ratties to lick it off all at the same time.

Another thing, how OLD are the two young rats?


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## AnimalLover1393 (Apr 29, 2015)

AdequateRat said:


> I had a similar situation when I was attempting to introduce three 6 month old rats to my resident rats that were significantly younger.
> (It was like a backward introduction.) This was the only introduction that failed for me..
> 
> I just got the sense that my Resident rats were unhappy...
> ...


FRom what I was told Remy is 6 months and Oliver is 2 months. I am skeptical about Remy's age because he and Oliver are kinda close in size I'm thinking Remy is probably around 4 months. And I have plastic levels that go into the cage but nothing I could separate the two halves of the cage with. Should I just put Bernard back into his old cage and the babies back into their old one?


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

I personally would, until you have some more time to try another introduction with your rats.

Are ALL of these rats new? Or have you had Remy for a while? Is Remy familiar with you?
I feel like sitting on a love seat/recliner (that's where I do my bonding sessions) with all of your guys would be very beneficial.


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## AnimalLover1393 (Apr 29, 2015)

Bernard I've had since like may or june of last year, I got Remy 3 weeks ago and Oliver almost 2 weeks ago. Oliver and Remy have been living together and are definitely friends. I don't really know a lot about bernard or where he came from or if he's ever lived with other rats before. His previous owner, who i got him from, got him from his first owner and long story short Bernard had "escaped" (she thinks he was put outside) in the middle of winter and she found him on a side walk. Her friend recognized the rat as her neighbors and the first owner very quickly and willingly gave him up to her and after having his for a few months she decided she wanted him to go to someone who had other rats and knew more about them. So Bernard is kinda my little mystery. He's very sweet and laid back. My fear is he just doesnt speak rat anymore and.


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## Tao.and.Laughter (Jan 24, 2015)

Was the cage Bernard's first, and you're adding in the other two?

Sometimes it actually helps to do a full on holy-crap cage cleaning to make the cage neutral when doing intros. I had to do it when introducing the girls - Clover, who was at one point the oldest when I intro'd Pan and her sister, and then Pan when intro'ing themost recent three. Clover and Pan both exhibited the exact same behavior you described Bernard doing though, kicking the newbies away, or grooming the ever-loving crap out of them until they were so terrified they hid elsewhere. I'd definitely try that!


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## Jackie (Jan 31, 2013)

Edit: I meant this as a reply quote to AdequateRat. 
I wished when I put yogurt on my fingers it worked like this. I tried this a while back and the first girl that saw it immediately bit my finger. Only spoons for me. Haha. Maybe I should try it on like the top or bottom of my hand?


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

Jackie said:


> Edit: I meant this as a reply quote to AdequateRat.
> I wished when I put yogurt on my fingers it worked like this. I tried this a while back and the first girl that saw it immediately bit my finger. Only spoons for me. Haha. Maybe I should try it on like the top or bottom of my hand?



Hi Jackie!  

I know it can be quite scary when placing your hands in with a bunch of furry things with teeth. x)
Honestly, love. I'd try again.. It's really fun.. I*f you feel safer with placing yogurt on your knuckles, then by all means! go for it.*

 All 8 of my boys LOVE to lick yogurt off my fingers at once. It's hilarious.

I can tell you that it *doesn't always go as planned*.. and I *personally* don't care if I get bit or not. Worst things have happened.
Gandalf actually did make me bleed once. That was the first and last time he ever did.

I'll share the story with you. This was the first introduction I was going through and I was wary, excited and eager to get started!
I was introducing Gandalf and Bear to my initial 2 rats, Cornelius and Spaghetti.

We started off in my bath tub and I monitored the situation for about an hour. It seemed to be going extremely well. Everything was going perfectly (as I read, anyway). 

Anyway, so I brought out the yogurt, put it all over my hands... They all licked yogurt off my fingers, however Gandalf (still new) got excited and mistook my hand for food as it had the yogurt on it and pulled very hard.. And you know rats, they want to run away and go to a private place to eat/lick said thing.

So I flipped out and I'm all, "NOOOOOOOOO! GANDALF DON'T DO IT!"

He is now literally the MOST gentle rat I have and my biggest bruxer/cuddle monster.

I would personally try it again, maybe first try (if you're not at that stage yet) trust training.
Where your ratties are comfortable enough to take say a cheerio or a grape out of your hand and run away... Then try the yogurt business!

Let me know how it goes.


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

AnimalLover1393 said:


> Bernard I've had since like may or june of last year, I got Remy 3 weeks ago and Oliver almost 2 weeks ago. Oliver and Remy have been living together and are definitely friends. I don't really know a lot about bernard or where he came from or if he's ever lived with other rats before. His previous owner, who i got him from, got him from his first owner and long story short Bernard had "escaped" (she thinks he was put outside) in the middle of winter and she found him on a side walk. Her friend recognized the rat as her neighbors and the first owner very quickly and willingly gave him up to her and after having his for a few months she decided she wanted him to go to someone who had other rats and knew more about them. So Bernard is kinda my little mystery. He's very sweet and laid back. My fear is he just doesnt speak rat anymore and.


Sorry for the delayed response! Have you tried introductions again after you came home?
It honestly sounds like Remy may just need a little reassurance.. I'd continue with the neutral zone for a while.. and incorporate a LOT of treats in the process.

But I mean, if he's only squeaking and there's no blood.. Then I wouldn't worry about it so much.


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## Jackie (Jan 31, 2013)

AdequateRat said:


> Hi Jackie!
> 
> I know it can be quite scary when placing your hands in with a bunch of furry things with teeth. x)
> Honestly, love. I'd try again.. It's really fun.. I*f you feel safer with placing yogurt on your knuckles, then by all means! go for it.*
> ...


I just meant that they haven't licked anything off my hands since I tried that one time, I'm not currently in any stage of training. I thought maybe that I won't ever get to a point where they won't try and drag my finger away. They're great loving rats otherwise. I will try again. I have more of an aversion to being bit that some people I've noticed so it just might be me.


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

Jackie said:


> I just meant that they haven't licked anything off my hands since I tried that one time, I'm not currently in any stage of training. I thought maybe that I won't ever get to a point where they won't try and drag my finger away. They're great loving rats otherwise. I will try again. I have more of an aversion to being bit that some people I've noticed so it just might be me.


Aaah, I see. I don't know how long you've had your rats or how comfortable they are with you.
I've personally never had female rats, either.. So maybe they have different temperaments. I really don't know.

Mine are all fat and lazy. Haha


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

When I had a mixed mischief I left town for a few days. When I got home and was saying hi to everyone, they were all licking my fingers like crazy. For a minute I thought they had really missed me. Then I remembered I had stopped and eaten a sausage Mc Muffin on the way home. I really smelled good, but no one bit me. Of course I had had all of them for at least a month at the time. 

I am not usually particularly shy about being bitten. Sometimes it just comes with the territory, but I did get 1 nasty rat bite and if I feel I am facing a situation that may mean several of those, I am a bit extra cautious.


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