# Pet shop lied!



## vickivixen (Oct 15, 2012)

I KNEW there was no way Ratty was only 8 weeks! I've just gone to collect 'Ron' from a breeder, who IS 8-9weeks, and he is like a mouse in comparison. Sooo sweet; exactly how I wished Ratty could've been lol (sorry Ratty, love ya really!).

The size difference is pretty phenomenal...I'm pretty worried about introducing them. Currently in two cages side by side...both asleep. Arghh scared about the into!


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## vickivixen (Oct 15, 2012)

Sorry, ANOTHER new thread I know - bloomin newbies ey?! I swear I'll quieten down once I'm settled back into being a rat owner! So yeah, left Ron (the new tiny one) in the new cage and Ratty in the old one for about two hours to get Ron's scent on everything. Have now switched them over and they're both sniffing everything interestingly. I've got to go out in a bit so think I'll switch Ratty back into his old cage and Ron back into the new one...then possibly get them in the bath together this evening? With maybe another switch beforehand? And then I think general advice is to put them in a cage together for the first time in the morning when they're sleepy. I'm dead worried about it, never done introductions before and it looks like Ratty could eat Ron in one gulp! Unfortunately Ratty has given me a little nip today - I think because of the smell of Ron on my fingers...which prob isn't the greatest of signs. Really hope Ratty is pre 12 weeks hormonal stage to make things easier...at the mo I am very pessimistic


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Can you take a pic of Ron and post it? If he's too young/small you may want to hold off on serious introductions.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Considering that the youngest he would be would be 3 weeks, so by now he would be 5 weeks? (How long have you had Ratty, btw I still love that name, most of our animals get similar names). Introducing them would be ok. Here is what you want to do though.

Neutral territory, the cage switching also shouldn't be done it can really stress them out.

Enclosed area like a cat carrier or tank.

Introduce in their play area (This and the Enclosed area Can be switched but the enclosed area is best to do before this)

Then clean out the main cage (Ratty's cage) Fully, clean everything, hammocks, plastic and wooden toys, ect. Then put them together. it's best not to let them out for a day or two after doing this. If any serious fighting (Drawing blood, fights lasting longer then a few minutes) separate them and either go back to the first step or to the enclosed area and play area.

When we introduced Soda and Storm (Storm was 3 weeks, Soda was around 4 weeks) them to Charles who at the time was maybe 10 months old they were fully together in 3 days with little to no fighting. Just remember that Charles was a complete sweet heart and completely ignored them for most of the introduction. Though he did scare Soda cause he kept sniffing him (Soda hid in my shirt for an hour because of it). Storm mean while kept wanting to play with Charles.


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## LaTortue (Oct 17, 2012)

lilspaz68 said:


> Can you take a pic of Ron and post it? If he's too young/small you may want to hold off on serious introductions.


Yes, this would help a lot. At 8-9 wks Ron shouldn't be teeny, but he's definitely still very small, especially compared to a full-grown male. In my own experience, the "hormonal stage" that males can go through doesn't occur until somewhere between 6-9 months, occasionally as early as 5 months. The only time I've seen real aggression issues in a rat as young as 3 months, it wasn't due to hormones, but I found that there was some kind of genetic neurological issue going on that also affected at least one of his parents and a few siblings as well. 

How long have you had Ratty? The nip he gave you today, did it break the skin? Are their cages fairly close to each other right now? If they are, is Ratty paying much attention to Ron? When he sees him through the bars does he do anything like poof up his fur? I've had success many times intro'ing pretty young males to adult males, BUT, the adult males were ones that I'd had for a fairly long amount of time and I was extremely familiar with their temperaments and how well they accepted new rats, and I would only try and intro the young boys to adult males I knew I could trust. In cases where I have an older male that I'm not really sure about, I've found that waiting until the younger male(s) are at least 3 months old is a good idea since they're not as small and fragile by then if something were to happen, although with proper intro procedures, I have rarely had problems intro'ing the ~3 month olds to adults.


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## vickivixen (Oct 15, 2012)

Hey there, thanks for your replies. I got the cage switching advice from here http://www.ratfanclub.org/newrat.html So you think not a good idea? (tho too late for me to undo it now!) To be honest I think they were alright with it - Ratty seemed excited by the whole thing, Ron it's probably harder to tell cos I don't know him, but he also seemed interested rather than scared. When do you go on to the neutral enclosed area bit? They haven't had much interaction between the bars as yet - no displays of aggression, just vague interest and then ignoring.

I am more willing to believe Ron is 8 weeks (or thereabouts) as I got him direct from the breeder (though in pretty rubbish conditions, it has to be said), and that Ratty is older than the Pets at Home staff told me (according to them he'd have just hit 9 weeks now). But maybe they're both wrong. I didn't believe in the slightest that Ratty was 8 weeks when I got him, but now I think perhaps they duped me a little more than I supposed! He's already got massive balls and a sleek coat, whereas Ron is fluffy and his balls aren't particularly noticeable yet. Here are the two of them in fairly similar positions....can you guess which is the older one??! Lol! 

http://i49.tinypic.com/f4muj6.jpg 

http://i48.tinypic.com/2uo5o3n.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/11to8ch.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/2e33l9i.jpg

Lightning Wolf, I love that you like the name  My son wanted to call the second one Ratto but I thought it might get confusing. He's Ron because of Scabbers...Peter Pettigrew...Ron Weasely. My three year old didn't have any input into that name!


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Their both between 4 and 8 weeks old. I would say 4 to 6 being far more likely then 8 weeks. Male often have huge balls by 6 to 8 weeks.

The switching cages often will make rats become more fearful as they are either scared because they are in another rat's territory or they are scared because they think another rat is in their territory without them knowing.

interest and ignoring is normal and a good sign.

the neutral enclosed area (like a bathtub) is the first step.

Your welcome. Our dog's name, who is 11 years old, is Pup. though we call him Puppy or Dumb Dumb (which he does respond to). Our cat's name is Streaker but we often call her kitty. Our old dog, who died about 5 years ago if I am correct, was named Baby. One of the names I have picked out is Rodent, which is actually a name of a character from Conker's bad fur day. I think it was the only M rated game on the Nintendo 64, or at lease the only one that wasn't a first person shooter. Fun game to play to be honest, I was 4 when I did it and had no idea what half of it meant so, but it was fun to play.

Ratto sounds cute, that could be Ron's nickname


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## vickivixen (Oct 15, 2012)

Haha just weighed them both...Ratty is 150g, Ron is 65g. Yeah sure, they're the same age!


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## vickivixen (Oct 15, 2012)

Oops, just saw you'd posted. Aww so Ron could be as young as 4 weeks? And you think Ratty is only about 8 weeks? I think according to the pet shop he is 9 weeks. So I was wrong to presume he was older? My they grow at quick rates then! I can't remember this from when I last had ratties. Ron is soooo cute and calm in my hands - he went to sleep in my dressing gown in the space of about a minute...yet he is quite active in the cage as he has so much exploring to do. Ratty, who I've had for week is still very flighty when he's out and will not abide being held, though does curl up me under a blanket when he's been out long enough. Yet when he's in his cage all he does is stay in his next at the bottom of the cage. Emerging personalities, or difference in age/amount of handling? Neither were handled when I got them, so Ratty's had exactly a week of human love, whereas Ron's still only on a couple of hours


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## CarrieD (Nov 20, 2011)

I've had excellent good luck with cage switching, and it's usually the first step I do for intros. At least once a day for a week or so, then try them together on neutral play area, then more switching. After about two weeks of this, with one or two play sessions in between, I usually have a very good idea of whether they're ready to try in the same cage together. Keep a sharp eye out, though, because sometimes even when play sessions go well, being in the same cage is a different matter.


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## vickivixen (Oct 15, 2012)

They sniffed each other, groomed each other, and are now sleeping curled up to each other. Apart from the poo and wee in my bath, I think that was a fairly satisfactory result! But now what...??! They look so content together I kind of don't want to put them back into different cages tonight (we're on 11:10pm here in the UK). At one point Ratty flopped onto Ron's back and kept his eyes closed in a 'ahhh bliss, a friend at last!' kind of way. So so cute! So what do I do next?


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## CarrieD (Nov 20, 2011)

You can try one cage, but I'd clean it completely and change the arrangement around so it seems as though they're going into a new place together. Then keep a very sharp eye and ear open. If they make it through the night, chances are you're golden.


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## vickivixen (Oct 15, 2012)

They sniffed each other, groomed each other, and are now sleeping curled up to each other. Apart from the poo and wee in my bath, I think that was a fairly satisfactory result! But now what...??! They look so content together I kind of don't want to put them back into different cages tonight (we're on 11:10pm here in the UK). At one point Ratty flopped onto Ron's back and kept his eyes closed in a 'ahhh bliss, a friend at last!' kind of way. So so cute! So what do I do next?


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Yep you can have them together. since they are under 12 weeks this is actually expected as they don't have hormones (or at lease not much) yet. you can try in the same cage.


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## LaTortue (Oct 17, 2012)

Ron is definitely older than 4 weeks, he looks to be closer to 8 wks like you were told. Ratty is older for sure, but I don't think my much, I would guess more like 3 months. And the male hormones that can sometimes cause behavior changes in some rats do not start kicking in as early as 12 wks, 5 months i earliest you're really going to see it, with it being more typical for it to happen somewhere between 6 and 9 months. I don't think there will be any problem putting them in the same cage.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

I would say Ron is 5-6 weeks, and Ratty is about 8-10 weeks from their development. They should be fine together


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