# Is it safe to breed an older doe?



## kayepaye (Jul 31, 2014)

First off let me state, I AM NOT BREEDING ANY OF MY RATS! I am well aware of the overpopulation, and have NO interest in breeding rats.

My question is, lets say I have a 1-2 year old female who has never been bred, would I be risking any complications in breeding her?

I know for guinea pigs if they haven't been bred by like 12 months of age pregnancy is basically fatal. 
Just curious if the same is true for rats.

This really is something I should probably already know considering I own 6 rats...

But just curious!

Again, I AM NOT BREEDING! I'm just curious


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## ThePokemonMaster (Aug 1, 2014)

Yes, it's still dangerous. Someone on the other rat forum I frequent did this, and the rat only had ONE baby. There might be others that are probably dead inside of her. It's a horrible idea. 

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## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

Complications can happen at any age but anything past a year and a half is really unsafe. I'm really confused as to why you'd ask if you had no intention of breeding though, even for curiosity's sake it's a little odd >.>


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## deedeeiam (Apr 8, 2014)

That's weird question for not breeding. The birthing rat drops off between 1-2 years, depending on the rat's health. The standard in most labs is to stop breeding after 18 months.


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## ThePokemonMaster (Aug 1, 2014)

I thought that this was a really weird hypothetical question too, but I didn't wanna be rude. 

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## kayepaye (Jul 31, 2014)

Yeah I understand it's an odd question, but I was just curious. Like I said I'm not interested in breeding. I would never ever put any of my rats through that. I enjoy learning about things and this was something that I didn't know anything about, so I wanted to get more information.
I have done research on guinea pigs and hamsters for years but only in the last 3 years have I started to have an interest in rats, and I haven't done as much reading as I would have liked to.

I love my animals very much, and I run a small animal rescue. I take in rats who are victims are overbreeding on a weekly basis, I would never ever even think to contribute to that.


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## kayepaye (Jul 31, 2014)

Let me rephrase the hypothetical question.

Say I were to take a rat into my rescue, she's around 18 months old and has never been bred before, but is pregnant. What kind of risks should I be looking at in this specific case as opposed to the risks in a young, healthy female?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

The babies getting stuck, being malfourmed, undernurished mother/children. Rats shouldn't have litters over a year old, just like women over 40 have complications with pregnancy due to hormones.


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## kayepaye (Jul 31, 2014)

nanashi7 said:


> The babies getting stuck, being malfourmed, undernurished mother/children. Rats shouldn't have litters over a year old, just like women over 40 have complications with pregnancy due to hormones.


Thank you for the information! That makes perfect sense


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Yep. Most rats have "menopause" around 15-18mo.


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## Zabora (Jun 8, 2014)

I believe the best age is 4-8 months. I read that the hips fuse together at later ages and that can cause problems too. Not sure if its true or not.


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## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

Different resources say different things. A training that I did on laboratory rats said 6-9 months. But I think the moral of the story here is 18 months is the cut off for minimal risk.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Actually, I think it's normal to think about having the babies of a very exceptional rat to raise after that rat is gone. Usually it's easy not to consider breeding your rats, but when the prospect of losing someone special is looming close ahead, there's a certain pressure on one's ethics and morals. I have a friend who is a retired breeder with 30 years of experience and I had a brief bought of doubt about having offspring from Fuzzy Rat in as much as I could get hands on professional help and a top notch sire, but she really was too old by that point and soon after she started growing mammary tumors all over... If she had died healthy after a long life, I suppose there were elements of her personality that would have been a benefit to the species to try and preserve, but to raise another generation of rats that would die the way she did, certainly wouldn't have made any sense.

In most ways, I'm glad I didn't breed her, still I sometimes think it would be nice to have her children with me... 

I think everyone who shares their life and truly loves their really special rat has a moment of weakness, but for the most part it's too late and better judgment wins out.


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## kayepaye (Jul 31, 2014)

I have read a few different resources, some said WAIT until they are at least a year old to start breeding, others say DON'T breed after a year. It's just a lot of different information that I kind of wanted to clear up.

I understand now that rats go through "menopause" around 18 months, and after 2 years are usually completely infertile. This is something that's pretty interesting, that I didn't know until looking into it a little more!

I love learning about rats, and although I have ZERO interest in breeding my own rats, reproduction/fertility is something to learn about. It's something that interests me. I'll never be able to know everything there is to know about rats, but the more I can learn the better!


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Rats hip bones dont fuse like guinea pigs, thats one of those internet myths like chocolate being toxic to rats.

In terms of breeding from an older doe, this is something my breeding group does do fairly regularly, breeding for increased lifespan means that this is a useful tool. As a doe ages they tend towards having smaller sized litters, this is most likley to be down to decreasing fertility and is also why often your accidental litters pop out 15+ as the does are often very young themselves. When a doe becomes infertile is very much down to there genetics, some have very low fertility as low as 9 months old, others still pop out unexpected litters past 2 years old, theres no hard and fast rule. For example here in the Uk some breeders will move a Stud Buck (one thats been mated several times and so may find it tough to live with other boys) in with an older apparently infertile does. Recently a friend took in an old stud buck and his girlfriend (they came from a line with excellent longevity and we wanted to get that into our lines). The pair had been living together for a good 6 months with no babies, about 4 weeks after arriving at his house a litter was born. As it was it was a great thing, both rats were a bit exceptional in there own right and ageing very slowly, but it was a surprise. Mum had a healthy litter of 7 and was over 2 years old at the time. 

In terms of risk to the doe, it does increase as they start ageing, but the age at which it becomes more risky varies from doe to doe as well, for example some 18 monht old does are physically as young as a 9 month old say, others would be showing there age at this stage. 

A big factor is actually weight, an older doe is more likley to be chubby, excess weight makes birthing significantly more dangerous. It increases the chance of rats being stuck. Older does seem to deal with stressors less well than youngsters (so are more likley to loose the babies in pregnancy), but often find motherhood itself more enjoyable assuming they arent old and overwhelemed by the baby madness.

If the doe is healthy, fit and a good weight i actually think it can be crueler to breed from or allow a very young girl to raise a litter. Maybe there physically able to do it, but its very hard on them and means a lot of responsability on a mentally young rat. We tend to breed at the earliest 9 months old, and at the latest around 18 months if we can help it, though it does depend on the individual rats. If i had a rescue girl who ws pregnant then i would probably treat her with galastop as a matter of course, unless she was very close to due. especially if she looked old, was chubby or was very young.


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## kayepaye (Jul 31, 2014)

Isamurat said:


> Rats hip bones dont fuse like guinea pigs, thats one of those internet myths like chocolate being toxic to rats.
> 
> In terms of breeding from an older doe, this is something my breeding group does do fairly regularly, breeding for increased lifespan means that this is a useful tool. As a doe ages they tend towards having smaller sized litters, this is most likley to be down to decreasing fertility and is also why often your accidental litters pop out 15+ as the does are often very young themselves. When a doe becomes infertile is very much down to there genetics, some have very low fertility as low as 9 months old, others still pop out unexpected litters past 2 years old, theres no hard and fast rule. For example here in the Uk some breeders will move a Stud Buck (one thats been mated several times and so may find it tough to live with other boys) in with an older apparently infertile does. Recently a friend took in an old stud buck and his girlfriend (they came from a line with excellent longevity and we wanted to get that into our lines). The pair had been living together for a good 6 months with no babies, about 4 weeks after arriving at his house a litter was born. As it was it was a great thing, both rats were a bit exceptional in there own right and ageing very slowly, but it was a surprise. Mum had a healthy litter of 7 and was over 2 years old at the time.
> 
> ...


This was extremely informative, and exactly what I was looking for as information.
Thank you so so so much!

Like I said I'm not breeding any of my babies, but it's nice to have this information anyway!


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