# Introducing a baby rat to another.



## Wombo (Feb 17, 2015)

Last week, me and my girlfriend bought two 4 weeks old baby rats at a local pet store. We named em' Gandalf and Severus. At first they both seemed healthy and were only showing what appears to be normal "new home" behaviour. But a little later we realised that Severus was already sick when we got him. After a few days we started noticing small clicking noises when he breathed. We called a vet and he told us to wait if it gets worse. A few days later, he was less active, eating and drinking less and had red secretions coming out of his nose. We set up a vet appointment ASAP, but sadly, he died in the car, on the way to the vet. It had been 9 days since we got them, he was a little over 5 weeks old. Now our little fella Gandalf lost his pal. 

 He's doing great, appart for some recurring sneezing, which I highly suspect to be the bedding that came with the cage set. It's recycled magazine paper bedding but a cheap one that gets real dusty really fast. I ordered some Eco-Bedding which I heard was highly recommended and I'm waiting for my order.

 Now, the thing is, we don't have much more than 1-2 hours a day to give him, so we would like to get him a new little brother. I have a small apartment and not much financial ease to buy a second cage. I was wondering if it was possible to introduce rats without using the quarantine technique when they're still young? If so, what's the safest way to do it?


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## new_rattie_mommy (Aug 24, 2014)

To be honest, I would address the sneezing first that Gandalf is having. If Severus was sick and ended up dying, and it sounds like he died of an upper respiratory infection, then he probably passed it on to Gandalf if he is now sneezing. That's how the URI usually starts is sneezing. Unless your rat has chronic mycoplam like mine, who sneezes constantly, whether he is sick or not, your rat shouldn't be sneezing unless he is sick. And with your other rat just previously dying from that I would get it taken care of with antibiotics to be proactive. Most likely, soon you will start seeing the other signs in him too such as porphyrin and hearing wheezing and stuff but once it gets to the point of bad sounds coming from their chest and everything it is pretty bad, sometimes to the point of pneumonia already and it is often too late to treat. Rats can die very quickly from an upper respiratory infection. I'm not saying that your boy Gandalf is about to die right now at the stage he is at if you are just noticing the sneezing but if you wait until you notice the other signs it may be too late for a rat that young. it's better to be on top of it right away when you notice sneezing and you can see too if you see any discharge from his nose at all or lethargy or just anything unusual. In your case because your other boy was sick though, get antibiotics as soon as possible, better safe than sorry. Not all rats even secrete porphyrin when they are ill so you won't always notice that. Only one of mine has that when he's sick and the others don't.

In regards to your other question. I would say after you treat your boy with antibiotics so you make sure he isn't sick too it is up to you if you want to do it without quarantine. I personally don't have a person who can hold a rat for me for 3 weeks so I didn't have the option to quarantine and I made the choice to introduce my new baby to my group without quarantining. Is it the safest thing to do quarantine so you're positive the new rat isn't ill? Yes. Without it you take the risk that you make get all of your existing rats ill and they could all potentially die of something or you could have a large vet bill of having to treat them all. That's why you quarantine so without it that's the risk you take but some people like me just don't have the option to do quarantine and it could turn out perfectly fine like it did in my case. I wouldn't recommend getting another baby from the same store you got your sick one from cuz they could all be exposed. If you could avoid getting it from a petstore all together that would probably be the best route if you are going to skip quarantine. That's the safest option. You could look for a baby from an accidental litter from craigslist or a breeder. If there are no breeders in your state or within reasonable distance check craigslist. I got my baby from an accidental litter for free.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Baby rats introduce together easily, it’s a case of sticking them together and them becoming best friends. You’ve probably got until 3-4 months old ish before it becomes more complicated than this. In your situation I would get a pair of baby rats as a trio is a better size for a group and gives you some time to react if one dies before you’ve got a lone rat situation.

Sneezing doesn’t make a sick rat, and I think its likely that at that young age Severus had some congenital weakness which either made him susceptible to illness or was a major cause of his death (heart problems can present themselves as resp issues). If its been 3 weeks since you go the first boys and you’ve had no contact with other rats since then then you have effectively quarantined them (if it was a virus, viruses are rarely infectious by the time you can see the symptoms and 2 weeks is probably the longest incubation period for the usual viruses) so Gandalf doesn’t pose a risk to his new friend/friends. They do in theory pose a risk to him, however when it comes to youngsters I would tend to put there social needs above health, as it can have a much longer term impact on them being alone than an older more self confident rat. I would find a pair of babies from the best source I could (ideally a breeder who quarentines) and introduce as soon as you get them.


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## Wombo (Feb 17, 2015)

Thanks to you two for the info, I appreciate it! It's good to know that baby rats can be introduced without too much problems. Although I got two different opinions here. Isamurat, you're saying that Gandalf should be ok while new_rattie_mommy you say I should get Gandalf checked first. The sneezes sure haven't gotten better yet, but he's been doing that since I got him. At first it was the same for Severus, but his situation deteriorated fast while Gandalf's didn't. 

He's still very much active, eats and drinks alot and I've been doing the socialization process that I've found on this forum and it's getting better everyday. It's gonna be three weeks tomorrow since I got them. He doesn't seem to have trouble breathing compared to Severus who was breathing by contracting his abdomen and opening his mouth wide. Vet's a pretty expensive in here, just the checkup is a little under 100$, and that doesn't include the medecine if needed. But at the same time I wouldn't want him to get sick like Severus. I'm not sure what I should do about it. If it may help about his situation, he also makes some breathing sound (something between a sniff and a squeak) between his sneezes. But when he breathes normally or is asleep, his breathing is silent and seems effortless. Also, when he sneezes, he covers his nose with his hands (apparently he has learned his manners  ) and it's followed by some grooming most of the time. 

Now, as for the breeders, I live in the Eastern townships, in the province of Quebec, Canada. In my region, the only breeders I could find are those that breed lots of rats in the main purpose of making them snake food. Would those be better than a pet store in your opinion? Thanks again for the help guys, I'll be waiting for more feedback.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

If he is grunting, you can feel vibrations through his chest, he looks fluffed up or he has a lot of porphyrin around his eyes or nose then i would get him to the vet. If not new rats do often sneeze as they settle in. If your worried then you could give him a drop of echanacia a day for a few weeks to boost his immune system. 

The reason i don't think gandalf had what severus had is i think it's more likley to have been something wrong with him internally. It could have been a virus but it's very unlikey to only affect one rat in a group and when viruses do hit they hit the young hard and fast. If it was a bacterial infection Gandalf will also already have this and likley been born with it (myco is the usual culprit and pretty much all rats not born in sterile conditions have this). If so he will either be strong enough to resist it or get ill, which could happen at any point but that's the case with any rat from an unknown background. 

of this 3 possibilities only a virus would affect any new rats you get and as i mentioned your talking about an incubation period of 2 weeks max for the common rat viruses before they are no longer infectious. That's why you would normally use 3 weeks for a quarantine period (unless you have nursing mums at the time).


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## Wombo (Feb 17, 2015)

Thank you! This had been really helpful  We're gonna go get him a new little brother ASAP, I hope it will all go smoothly. Thanks again for the help! ))


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## Wombo (Feb 17, 2015)

We got him a little brother three days ago! They've had a few brawls during the first day and a half because Gandalf was begin a little territorial, but nothing out of control, nobody drew any blood or got injured. Now they're curled up and sleeping as I'm writing this and everything is going fine. Except for one thing. Our new little buddy, Dumbo, has been having some sneezing sprees. But they sound a lot different then Gandalf's, so I'm no quite sure these are new home sneezes, although I might be wrong. They are much more high pitched and to my perception they seem more painful to the little ratty. He's active, acting, drinking and eating as expected. I shot of video of him sneezing and I would like to know your advice. The sneezes are not wet, if it may help.


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## new_rattie_mommy (Aug 24, 2014)

I didn't know gandalf was doing the sneezing right from the start. My one boy from the petstore did that too and he has never stopped cuz he has chronic mycoplam. So they just always sneeze even when they aren't sick. you can tell the different signs though of when he is actually getting a real cold though. Maybe that's what your boy has as well cuz most rats are carriers so it's a possibility. I was just worried since your other boy had died so any symptoms would've been worrisome but you're really the best judge of instincts being there to tell whether his symptoms seemed different or not. It's good he never developed a similar pattern and I agree he wouldn't by now. 

Your little boy Dumbo is adorable. That is a really strange sneeze though...it doesn't sound like any of my 3 rats sneezes. it's much wetter and squeakier. That being the case I'm not sure if he is just unique or if that is a bad sign. Where did you end up getting him from? The snake breeder? Do you know if they worry about how healthy their rats are or if they don't really care cuz it's snake food? I'm not sure, just asking...also hold him up to your ear and listen to his chest and see if his breathing sounds clear or if you hear anything that sounds wrong or rattly or just funny. You will know if it is wrong. My baby girl got pneumonia a few months ago and I thought she was talking to me at first and I realized it was her chest rattling.


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## Wombo (Feb 17, 2015)

His sneezing is a little wet. I can feel small drops on my hand when he does it. I got him at the same pet store which I got Gandalf and Severus. He is still doing fine though. Sneezing seem to happen a little less and I don't hear anything wrong when I get him close to my ear. I'm gonna keep a close watch on him though. I'll get back with details if anything changes. Thanks for the feedback!


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## Rhythm9 (Mar 26, 2015)

Any updates? I am going through a similar scenario and wanted to see how your boys turned out


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