# 8 females in one cage... found litter... no one claiming them...



## j_kalman (Apr 14, 2013)

HELP!! I have 8 females in one cage (double decker critter nation) and 2 males. They are completely separated. One of the females is a feeder rat that our snake refused to eat. (We do not feed our pet rats to the snake ever... we just had 4 litters on accident and they all went to pet stores who sold them as pets. I know this because they all called back looking for more since they sold them all so quickly) We have kept them all separate from the males and you can imagine the shock when we woke up to little squeaks this morning. My gut feeling is that they came from the feeder rat who has been with is for a week now, but we don't know who the mom is since none of them are really tending to them. They were freezing so we warmed them up on the heating pad, and they all have milk in their bellies, so SOMEONE has been feeding them. Our other mommas stopped nursing weeks ago, so they have dried up so it has to be the momma who was feeding them. The feeder is skittish as all heck (as you can imagine being raised as a feeder would make you) so it's hard to get a good look at her. I don't want them to die slowly by dehydrating and starving... and I am so worried that no one is going to claim them. When we knew our other rats were pregnant we bought them all their own cages and separated them before they gave birth so there would be no confusion and they could just rest in quiet with their litters. This has thrown me for a complete loop. Does any one have any suggestions as to what to do? Is there a way to look and tell which of them gave birth recently? My first thought was to check the nipples, but they all have enlarged nipples from nursing their own litters. I am certain it's not our hairless girl as she has no signs she was nursing ever. I am so sad at the thought that they will die. I would like to raise them here, but if no one steps up as mom I was thinking of calling the pet store and seeing if they had any nursing mommas that could adopt them. Thank you for any advice.


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

If there's no way that any of your other rats can be the mother.... It's probably safe to figure the newest one is. Put her in a cage with the babies. She'll either take care of them or she won't. Give her an hour to see if she tends to them Since one of the rats "obviously" fed them once..... She should do it again. Just give her a quiet space and time.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

As above but try something small, like a carrier or tank. The idea is to force her into contact with them to see if theh respond. A new born mums nipples will be a lot smaller than a mum thats just come off a litter as the nipples grow with the babies. There should still be clear cir les round them in a furred rat. If none of yours fit the bill then its probably the hairless rat.


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## j_kalman (Apr 14, 2013)

Thanks everyone. We hadn't planned to breed any of them. My kids put the last feeder that the snake wouldn't eat in with the girls and it was a boy and by the time I saw and got him out... 4 of them were already pregnant. We weren't planning to breed them ever, and they have been separate since the baby males were 4.5 weeks old. I am not interested in breeding rats, but I want to be sure they are well taken care of. The only two that I can't vouch for are the feeder and the hairless rat. Yan (the hairless) was in with males when we got her and the feeder I have no clue about. Yan's nipples are the size of poppy seeds though so I'm not thinking that it couls be her. I will put the feeder in the carrier with them babies and see if that helps forcer her to allow them to nurse. Thank you again for your advice.


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

Keep us updated on how it goes. 

Hopefully, you'll know who the mom is soon.


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## j_kalman (Apr 14, 2013)

Thank you so much. She has eaten two of them now, and the rest still have milk in their bellies. I have a freind who has a friend that has females that can "adopt" them if she has no interest in the rest of them, so at least there is an option. It is so sad when they eat them. One of our other girls ate one of her babies too, and you have to trust that they just know when that's necessary. I just hope that she doesn't cannibalize the whole lot of them. That would be so very sad.


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## j_kalman (Apr 14, 2013)

Well she killed all but one, and this little one has a couple of nips in it as well. They must have all had mortal wounds because it was minutes between the times we checked. My daughter heard them screaming so she looked the first time. I am heart broken for them. I should have just taken them to my friend earlier. :'( I know it is a part of life, but it still sucks.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

I'm sorry 

what are you going to do with the one baby?


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm sorry 

It could be something was wrong with them or she was just a nervous first time mom. 

You never really know what went wrong when these things happen. I hope the last one survives. Let us know how it does.


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## j_kalman (Apr 14, 2013)

I have a friend whos friend has nursing mommas that could adopt them. There ended up being two that were not mortally wounded. One was in better shape than the other. If they make it through the night then they should be in the clear, but I am not confident they both will. One was very lively and squeaking and wiggling like mad. It went the bathroom then I washed its genitals with a wet piece of toilet paper too so I am hopeful. I am just so heartbroken for them. They seemed fine... a little small, but she was young. I'm sure it was her age coupled with the fact that she is a SUPER nervous rat since she was a feeder. I can't help but feel that I failed them for trying to get her to take care of them. If I had just taken them away from her this morning... but we'll never know. I just feel sick about it. I will be taking her back to the pet store to trade her in for a new feeder since my snake refuses to eat her. I am very close to just giving the snake away since he has caused me more rat trouble than he's worth. Not having to sentence anymore ratties to their doom would be nice too. My daughter would kill me though. 

I am hoping for some good news tomorrow... thank you all for your help. I look forward to looking around the forum and getting to know everyone and helping when I can.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Well at least 2 make it, hopefully they'll be fine.

You could always convert your snake to F/T. much cheaper in the long run as well. (Snake forums like Ball pythons.net should be able to help you out with converting to F/T)


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## j_kalman (Apr 14, 2013)

F/T? Frozen and thawed I assume? He won't frozen most of the time either. I always feel worse having the poor rat die for no reason when I have to toss it in the bin. I had to toss the last two thawed rats I tried to feed him. He used to have no issue with them, but for some reason he was off of them for a while. You can't re freeze them, so it's either he eats it or I have to toss it. At least with the live rats, they can live a happy life until the big day. I swear... he is the world's most difficult snake. 

I hope to hear good news tomorrow about the 2 that were spared disembowelment by their mother... I'll keep you all posted.


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## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

So how did the babies do overnight?


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## j_kalman (Apr 14, 2013)

I haven't heard yet.  Thank you so much for asking though.


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## j_kalman (Apr 14, 2013)

I finally heard back. One of them passed, but the other one is still going strong. I am hoping to be able to get it back when it's old enough to leave its adoptive mom. We'll see if he can keep track of it. I am just glad that one of them survived. Makes me feel like I was able to do *something*.


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

Thanks for the update. 

I'm glad one of them made it. Are you wanting to keep it as a pet?

I hope you're able to keep track of it.


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## j_kalman (Apr 14, 2013)

Yes... if he can keep track it would be one very pampered pet. It's probably next to impossible though since he out them in with the momma who had a littler the same day. I will just be happy knowing that it survived though.


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