# Vegan rat food recipe



## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Hi, this is my vegan rat food recipe. ENJOY!

Ingredients:
1 cup of brown rice
1 cup of rolled oats. (NOT INSTANT!)
1 Cup of other lentils and legimuns
1 cup of puffed rice cereal OR whole wheat flour. 
1 tablespoon of olive oil
1/4 cup of maple syrup (ONLY 100% MAPLE)
1 can of beans (drained)
1 large sweet potato, or 2 small ones.
1/2 cup of COOKED corn
1/4 cup of applesauce
1/2 cup of UNSALTED sunflower seeds
---------------------------------------------------
If you have babies add this too:
1 cup of peanut butter
1/2 cup of hemp seeds
1/2 cup of chia seeds
????????????????????????????????????????????????
How to make it-
Add 6 cups of water to a pot

Put in the brown rice, lentils, and peeled and chopped sweet potato. And cover for 30 minutes.

Then, add the oatmeal and HALF of the puffed rice cereal. Wait until fully cooked.

Then add the oil, cereal, applesauce, corn, beans, and maple syrup. 

Let cool and enjoy!

*THIS CAN BE PART OF A STAPLE DIET IF YOU SUPLEMENT WITH FRUIT AND VEGGIES EVERY DAY. :blush:


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## Fu-Inle (Jan 22, 2015)

this mix is a one way street to diabetes


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

I haven't checked all the ingredients but the applesauce and maple syrop could be dropped for less calories and as bit as much nutrition. IMO.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

why? I checked all of the ingredients.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

whT does that mean?


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## Sal (Mar 21, 2016)

Fu-Inle said:


> this mix is a one way street to diabetes


Not to mention uncooked sweet potato is toxic to rats, and I'm assuming this is supposed to be uncooked since corn specifically states 'COOKED'.

Edie16, rat nutrition isn't something to play around with, they have very specific nutritional requirements.

This recipe is woefully low in protein which is hugely important in rats to get just right, additionally as Fu-Inle says this is a one way street to diabetes because the macro-nutrient break down looks to be around 70-75% carbohydrate and about 40-50% of that would be 'simple sugars'. Additionally since there's little protein the fat content is rather high as well.

There are vegan friendly rat foods on the market that are made into lab blocks / pellets which can be bought and leave you feeling rest assured that your rats are getting the right nutrition. This also prevents selective feeding.

I'm not trying to attack you, but if you'd done a bit more research then you would know that you can buy vegan friendly rat foods, you'd also know that sweet potatos are toxic when uncooked. Please stop feeding that to them immediately! Also as I said rat nutrition is fairly complex, I'm a nutritionist for people and believe me, rats are even more complicated in some ways when it comes to getting the amounts of macros and micros correct.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

The sweet potatoes are cooked. If you actually read it you would know that. And I will continue to feed them this until the day they die. Also I said cool the corn because it wasn't cooking with the sweet potatoes and rice.


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## Sal (Mar 21, 2016)

Edie16 said:


> The sweet potatoes are cooked. If you actually read it you would know that. And I will continue to feed them this until the day they die. Also I said cool the corn because it wasn't cooking with the sweet potatoes and rice.


Actually you don't say anywhere to cook the sweet potatoes. You say to add 6 cups of water to a pot and put the brown rice, lentils and peeled and chopped sweet potato in and cover for 30 minutes. Putting something into 6 cups of water for 30 minutes does not equal cooking nor does it imply that you boiled it unless you implicitly state so.

Yes I'm sure you will keep feeding it to them until the day they die, which will be considerably sooner then you think.

Most of us on here have been keeping rats for years, and you constantly don't listen to others advice. Why be on here at all?


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

i do listen to people's advice but you were being so rude. All you had to say was. I assumed you didn't cook them. Not OMG YOUR RATS WILL DIE!!


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## Fraido (Oct 1, 2014)

You don't have to get defensive. Just mixing a bunch of safe foods for rats together doesn't mean it is nutritionally correct, and can lead to problems. With what you have already been told, I really suggest researching further and coming up with a new recipe or buying vegan blocks.


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## Sal (Mar 21, 2016)

Edie16 said:


> i do listen to people's advice but you were being so rude. All you had to say was. I assumed you didn't cook them. Not OMG YOUR RATS WILL DIE!!


So I shouldn't say if something's toxic or advise people to stop feeding it to their rats immediately?

I'm not sure subjects like that require tiptoeing around to make sure nobody gets offended. I've made plenty of mistakes over the years and criticism if it's constructive shouldn't be deemed as rude. However I am sorry if you felt offended, no harm was intended.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

iAlso I don't know why you think the food is toxic?


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

im really sorry. I'm not like that, I just always feel like I'm never doing anything right and it gets frustrating sometimes. Like people don't want me to bring my rats camping, or to train a shoulder rat, or to make it vegan, and now I'm not even feeding it good. I'm just trying to give the rats the best life ever. I took them from my brother because he didn't take care of them. And not they have to live in a tank! The worst part is I'm helpless, I'm only 12 so I don't have money to buy them a new cage. I don't even have money to get her tumor removed so I just have to sit here while her tumor keeps growing and I can't do anything about it. I don't know why in telling you this I just had to get it out.


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## Fraido (Oct 1, 2014)

We are simply trying to help you in your goal to give them the best life ever.


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## Nieve5552 (May 20, 2014)

Edie16 said:


> iAlso I don't know why you think the food is toxic?


Raw sweet potato is toxic to rats because it is. If you look on the rat safe foods lists they almost always mention that the raw sweet potatoes are toxic and need to be cooked.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Nieve5552 said:


> Edie16 said:
> 
> 
> > iAlso I don't know why you think the food is toxic?
> ...


It's not raw! I said cool it in my post


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Nieve5552 said:


> Edie16 said:
> 
> 
> > iAlso I don't know why you think the food is toxic?
> ...


I said wait until fully cooked.


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## Nieve5552 (May 20, 2014)

Edie16 said:


> It's not raw! I said cool it in my post


Yeah I got that from your previous posts, I was just answering to your question about why it is thought to be toxic.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

Rats live such short lives and are so susceptible to a host of awful diseases. Any little thing we can do to give them a chance at living longer, healthier lives is critical. This includes providing a nutritionally complete diet.

I think what you've made would be a good snack if you cut the syrup


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## Andromeda (Apr 28, 2016)

Edie16 said:


> im really sorry. I'm not like that, I just always feel like I'm never doing anything right and it gets frustrating sometimes. Like people don't want me to bring my rats camping, or to train a shoulder rat, or to make it vegan, and now I'm not even feeding it good.


I know that rat care can seem overwhelming. It's a lot to take in. But people are telling you don't bring them camping, don't train a shoulder rat, and don't make them vegan because those things are dangerous for your rats! We aren't trying to attack you or put you down, we're trying to help you keep your babies as safe as possible.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Andromeda said:


> Edie16 said:
> 
> 
> > im really sorry. I'm not like that, I just always feel like I'm never doing anything right and it gets frustrating sometimes. Like people don't want me to bring my rats camping, or to train a shoulder rat, or to make it vegan, and now I'm not even feeding it good.
> ...


I know that but sometimes I wish I was smart enough to come up with something ratinol. Instead of something so dumb.


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## artgecko (Nov 26, 2013)

Like all things in life, taking care of any animal can be complicated. People make mistakes along the way. That doesn't make you "dumb", but it does mean that you need to put in some time researching things before you jump into doing something. It is great that you want to do a diet for your rats, but look into something a little more nutritionally solid and researched. I'd suggest checking out the shunamite diet. A lot of people in the UK and Europe feed their rats a home-made mix. But, the key there is getting the right balance of certain grains, protein, etc. I use teklad blocks as my main staple diet (I think they are vegan...), but I made up a grain mix based on the shunamite diet to supplement the blocks. That way, I have the advantages of a pre-made block that I know gives them the right nutrients, plus the rats get to eat a grain mix that is healthy for them and adds some variety to their diet. 

Part of growing up (and gaining experience) is learning to take advice from others.. "constructive criticism" as another poster said. When people tell you that doing something is hazardous to your rats, then try asking them to suggest safer or better alternatives. Most people on the forum here are truly just trying to help you and give advice that will help your rats.. They aren't necessarily out to smite you.


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## Nieve5552 (May 20, 2014)

Edie16 said:


> I know that but sometimes I wish I was smart enough to come up with something ratinol. Instead of something so dumb.


Doesnt mean that youre dumb. You are young, but you have interest in rat keeping and their health. So I think that once you are able to do some research into rat care/health/behaviour etc, and keep an open mind on the forum, you'd be on your way to being very knowledgeable on rats. There are a lot of websites on the internet that provide all kinds of information which are really helpful! 
I can safely say that I didnt even know that rats could be kept as rats when I was 12, let alone anything about being a good rat-keeper!


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## Grotesque (Mar 19, 2014)

Two things:

1) Make ABSOLUTELY sure those sweet potatoes are fully cooked. Based just on what you wrote, it doesn't seem like they would be done enough. 

2) Why would you want to put your rats on a vegan diet? I've never heard of that being the best thing for them, being natural omnivores who are programmed to need a mix of meat, grains, and veggies. I'm by no means a rat nutrition expert, just wondering.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Grotesque said:


> Two things:
> 
> 1) Make ABSOLUTELY sure those sweet potatoes are fully cooked. Based just on what you wrote, it doesn't seem like they would be done enough.
> 
> 2) Why would you want to put your rats on a vegan diet? I've never heard of that being the best thing for them, being natural omnivores who are programmed to need a mix of meat, grains, and veggies. I'm by no means a rat nutrition expert, just wondering.


Sorry, my directions Werner clear but when you covered the pot it was supposed to be boiling. :flushed: also I'm vegan so they are to. It's 100% safe for them.


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## Grotesque (Mar 19, 2014)

This is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but your statement of "I'm vegan so my rats are too" doesn't sit right with me. If YOU choose to be vegan, fine... but if you feel the need to impose your beliefs on an innocent animal, maybe a rabbit would have been a better choice for a pet. 

Plus you have a really nasty attitude towards the people on this thread that were trying to help you. 

You chose an omnivore as a pet. The least you can do is respect mother nature and give the rat what it needs to eat in order to be healthy. The diet you posted isn't even close to optimal and I agree with the poster who said it is a direct path to diabetes. 

Are you a vegan because it's trendy to be one and then impose your beliefs on others or are you a vegan because you love and respect animals? I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's the second one. If so, then LOVE and RESPECT your rats enough to know they do best with meat in their diet.

Edited to add: There are vegan blocks for people who feel the need to do this. If you need to, get one of those. They are at least more nutritionally complete but the best will always be a high quality traditional block like Oxbow.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Grotesque said:


> This is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but your statement of "I'm vegan so my rats are too" doesn't sit right with me. If YOU choose to be vegan, fine... but if you feel the need to impose your beliefs on an innocent animal, maybe a rabbit would have been a better choice for a pet.
> 
> Plus you have a really nasty attitude towards the people on this thread that were trying to help you.
> 
> ...


I'm vegan for the animals. I didn't know it was a trend, heck! I didn't even know people would know people would know what it means. But there is nothing wrong with rats being vegan, it's not like they will be sad or deprived of meat cause they are omnivores like humans. :blush:


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Grotesque said:


> This is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but your statement of "I'm vegan so my rats are too" doesn't sit right with me. If YOU choose to be vegan, fine... but if you feel the need to impose your beliefs on an innocent animal, maybe a rabbit would have been a better choice for a pet.
> 
> Plus you have a really nasty attitude towards the people on this thread that were trying to help you.
> 
> ...


Also, why dose everyone want me to have a rabbit. I actually think it's kind of rude because rats CAN be vegan not just bunnies. I understand you think I'm forcing it on them and I feel bad that I was being rude, I just get defensive towards this topic because people think I do NO reasearch on rats health because I didn't say to cook the sweet potatoes even though I explained that it was a typo.


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## Kokorobosoi (Jan 14, 2016)

Hun, as a fellow vegan I understand your desires to make your beloved pets like you. 

My rats are not vegan. I went and bought a little dorm fridge and a little red pot and cook them eggs. They have their own fridge, cooking utensils, and their own sponge to wash those dishes. 

I am a vegan to closely follow my Buddhist beliefs of no harm. I feed my rats meat based diets, my dogs meat based diets, because I believe in no harm. Who am I to force anything on another living being? There are times when you simply have to respect that not everyone out there can, or will, or even want to be just like you. 

Besides, wouldn't the world be a really boring place if we were all the same? 

Please think about your motivations and what would truly be best for your pets. 

Be well!


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Kokorobosoi said:


> Hun, as a fellow vegan I understand your desires to make your beloved pets like you.
> 
> My rats are not vegan. I went and bought a little dorm fridge and a little red pot and cook them eggs. They have their own fridge, cooking utensils, and their own sponge to wash those dishes.
> 
> ...


I think veganism is bet for my pets! :blush: and you will think I'm crazy, but DOGS can thrive on a vegan diet. Look it up! Or not. Just don't think I'm cray cray


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## Andromeda (Apr 28, 2016)

Edie16 said:


> I think veganism is bet for my pets! :blush: and you will think I'm crazy, but DOGS can thrive on a vegan diet. Look it up! Or not. Just don't think I'm cray cray


Dogs CANNOT thrive on a vegan diet.

You are obviously set on feeding your rats a vegan diet even though countless forum members who have had rats for much longer than you have advised against it, so I don't really see why you bothered making 3 separate threads about feeding your rats vegan. You don't want to know if it's good for them because you've already convinced yourself that it is. You're not asking for your pets' well being, you just want to get affirmation and then become defensive when people offer differing opinions. If you aren't going to listen to other people's advice, don't ask the question.


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## Kokorobosoi (Jan 14, 2016)

That's why I stopped responding. I doubt our words would make a difference.


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## JAnimal (Jul 23, 2014)

Edie16 you obviously have your heart set on feeding a vegan diet. However yours isn't nutritious enough. It has way too much sugar and fat with will kill your rats earlier. You need to do way more research and can't just throw food together. If you want to feed a vegan diet then use vegan lab blocks like harlan teklan that won't kill your rats early.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Andromeda said:


> Edie16 said:
> 
> 
> > I think veganism is bet for my pets! :blush: and you will think I'm crazy, but DOGS can thrive on a vegan diet. Look it up! Or not. Just don't think I'm cray cray
> ...


OBVIOUSLY you didn't look it up. Look up can dogs be vegan.


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## JAnimal (Jul 23, 2014)

A blurb from an article: 
The only issue I’ve seen with dogs being switched to a vegetarian food is one of acceptance. It seems to me that dogs who are used to eating diets that contain meat go through a "where’s the beef, chicken … etc.?" stage. Overcoming this is easy if you simply mix increasing amounts of the new food in with decreasing amounts of the old and make the change slowly.
They don't want it but are being forced to. Sort of like if I told you that you couldn't eat your favourite food.


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## RatAtat2693 (Jan 13, 2016)

Kokorobosoi said:


> That's why I stopped responding. I doubt our words would make a difference.


I just got sick of arguing with a twelve year old.

Look, Eddie, if you want people to respect you, you need to realize that you are in the beginning stages of rat keeping. You are going to mess up. I lost my first rat behind a dresser for almost 24 hrs. There's a learning curve.

If you have to ask questions on the basics of diet or where to keep your rat (cages, etc.), then you're at a stage where you need to listen instead of leading. Posting a vegan diet that is not sound in nutrition is leading on a topic you don't really know about. It's beyond your limits at this point in time. So instead of getting defensive, which you are, listen to them.

It's okay to ask questions. I just got three new babies, and it's been over two years since the last time I had babies. Do I need a refresher on feeding them? You bet I do. However, and I don't mean to brag, I have a wealth of behavior knowledge. Because of this, you won't find me posting often in the health section, but you will find me in behavior and homes. I have solid, tested experience in those areas, so that's where I can lead. You haven't reached that point. You might eventually, but right now is your time to listen.


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## Andromeda (Apr 28, 2016)

RatAtat2693 said:


> I just got sick of arguing with a twelve year old.


Honestly, this whole thing has just really convinced me that children should not be the sole caretakers of any animal. :/


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## RatAtat2693 (Jan 13, 2016)

Andromeda said:


> RatAtat2693 said:
> 
> 
> > I just got sick of arguing with a twelve year old.
> ...


It depends on the kid, but since there's a certain lack of financial income, the parents do need to be in on it.

When I was around 9 or 10, I was in charge of feeding, training, and grooming 12 dogs, 2 horses, a hamster, and eight cats. We lived in the middle of nowhere, and my neighbor wasn't exactly the most responsible pet owner. My grades sucked from spending all my non-academic time running through the woods with a pack of dogs, but no one died of neglect. I had 10 of the dogs well trained; the horses never had burrs in their manes or tails. It worked as best as I could make it without having income. But it's like I said before; you have to be willing to listen. I learned how to "speak dog" by reading every book I could on training and then trying it on my dogs. I learned how to treat a bot fly infestation by asking other horse people. I wanted knowledge, so I found the people who had that knowledge, asked them to throw me a bone, and sucked the marrow from it.

And having that experience has made me a better person. Teaching the neighbor's abused, terrified pit bull to trust me gave me patience beyond all belief. I would spend hours with her, just sitting next to her dog house, in her dog house, making sure she had company. Animals are great for kids, especially lonely kids, but the kid has to be ready for it.


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## SaberKatt (Mar 14, 2016)

Edie16 said:


> OBVIOUSLY you didn't look it up. Look up can dogs be vegan.


A dog can survive and occasionally thrive (if they are not picky eaters and are not allergic to the main protein ingredients, which many are) on a vegetarian diet. A dog can survive on a vegan diet, but they are unlikely to thrive on one. The nutritional needs are so particular and difficult to get right...I have never known a veterinarian who approved of vegan diets for dogs. Regardless, we are talking about rats. Dogs are a different species with different requirements, so it really doesn't matter.

Rats CAN have a vegan diet, yes. It is possible. What the people on this thread are trying to say is that any limited diet becomes more complex, the nutritional needs more precise. Your mix is not a good one, but there are commercially available vegan diets out there if that is something you feel the need to do. Just be aware that if this is something you plan on doing, it becomes MORE important for you to have a keen understanding of a rat's nutritional needs, which you have not displayed as of yet. We are concerned by that. If you love your rat babies, which you clearly do since you're taking the time to mix your own food for them, then please listen to what the people on this forum have to say. We're not trying to make you feel bad - we're on your side. We all just want what is best for your babies.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

SaberKatt said:


> Edie16 said:
> 
> 
> > OBVIOUSLY you didn't look it up. Look up can dogs be vegan.
> ...


Most dogs thrive on a vegan diet not just some.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

RatAtat2693 said:


> Kokorobosoi said:
> 
> 
> > That's why I stopped responding. I doubt our words would make a difference.
> ...


Why do you just assume I'm new to rat keeping? I've had rats since I was 8 and all but one of them got until they were 3 1/2 or older. They have been vegan even before I was vegan. Yes o do have babies but that's because my boys died last year so I got new ones.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Andromeda said:


> Edie16 said:
> 
> 
> > I think veganism is bet for my pets! :blush: and you will think I'm crazy, but DOGS can thrive on a vegan diet. Look it up! Or not. Just don't think I'm cray cray
> ...


I am set on feeding my rats vegan even though people told me not to. I've only seen like one person say that though. But this forum is for my recipe and people are getting off topic.


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## Kokorobosoi (Jan 14, 2016)

This post is for your recipe. This forum is not. This forum is for the benefit of all of our pet rats.

This post is still on topic. We are discussing why we think your recipe needs more research. Just because it isn't praise and kowtowing doesn't mean it is off topic. 

Welcome to the Internet. 

For the people who will come across this post in google searches, I strongly disagree with the op's receipe as it does not meet all the requirements for a healthy rat. It also has too much sugar. please research before you use ANY homemade formula.


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## RatAtat2693 (Jan 13, 2016)

Kokorobosoi said:


> ...For the people who will come across this post in google searches, I strongly disagree with the op's receipe as it does not meet all the requirements for a healthy rat. It also has too much sugar. please research before you use ANY homemade formula.


This is why we're adamant about responding. This forum is open to the public to read. It's why you'll see "Say Hello" topics from new members who have come out of "lurkdom" to start posting. We don't want someone seeing this diet and thinking, "Oh, this is cool and subscribes to my beliefs," and then have them inadvertently hurt their rats.

Some of these posts get thousands of views.


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## SaberKatt (Mar 14, 2016)

1. You're wrong about "most dogs" thriving on a vegan diet. Canine nutrition is something I actually had to study for my job. It can be done, but it is difficult and requires a specific knowledge of canine nutrition that most well meaning people simply do not have. Furthermore many dogs are allergic to some of the main ingredients in vegetarian and vegan diets, such as soy and wheat. Many dogs have trouble digesting ANY kind of grain. And a dog's system doesn't always get nutrients from vegetables efficiently or effectively. There is actually still a lot of debate in the scientific community about whether dogs thrive best on a carnivorous versus omnivorous diet. Ask 10 nutrition experts what a dog should eat and you'll get 10 different answers. BUT! Soy and wheat are common allergens. That is a fact. Dogs do better with a grain free diet. That is a fact. Dogs have trouble effectively digesting most plant based foods (rice and potatoes being notable exceptions). That is a fact. 

2. If you want to talk solely and specifically about your rat recipe, we have. It is not healthy. It shows you have an incomplete understanding of rat health, and we recommend using a commercially available vegan diet until you have that understanding. That you do not understand how and why that recipe is problematic proves that you are not ready to mix your own food. I am much less of an expert on rat nutrition as I am on dog nutrition, which is why I don't feed my own mix. There are perfectly viable commercial options that save me time, money, and worry.

3. I don't care how old you are or how long you've had rats. I am only interested in the knowledge you have displayed on this forum, which isn't much. And that's absolutely okay! This is a place where people should feel safe to learn and get advice. I'm also a long time rat owner, and animal care is a huge part of my life, but I ultimately joined this site so I could learn even more! Those of us who love rats want what's best, and continuing to learn everything about them is part of that love.

4. Ignore the sweet potatoes misunderstanding, ignore the debate about vegan vs omnivorous, and you're still left with the fact that your recipe has too much sugar. Until you are able to understand how and why that is a problem (and not just because people told you) or until you can provide a satisfactory answer as to why the sugar content is okay, my strongest recommendation would be to use a commercially available vegan diet as your base and go from there. Beyond giving you my best recommendation, there is nothing else I can do here. But I do hope, for the sake of your babies, that you understand that we are trying to help and take our advice to heart.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

SaberKatt said:


> 1. You're wrong about "most dogs" thriving on a vegan diet. Canine nutrition is something I actually had to study for my job. It can be done, but it is difficult and requires a specific knowledge of canine nutrition that most well meaning people simply do not have. Furthermore many dogs are allergic to some of the main ingredients in vegetarian and vegan diets, such as soy and wheat. Many dogs have trouble digesting ANY kind of grain. And a dog's system doesn't always get nutrients from vegetables efficiently or effectively. There is actually still a lot of debate in the scientific community about whether dogs thrive best on a carnivorous versus omnivorous diet. Ask 10 nutrition experts what a dog should eat and you'll get 10 different answers. BUT! Soy and wheat are common allergens. That is a fact. Dogs do better with a grain free diet. That is a fact. Dogs have trouble effectively digesting most plant based foods (rice and potatoes being notable exceptions). That is a fact.
> 
> 2. If you want to talk solely and specifically about your rat recipe, we have. It is not healthy. It shows you have an incomplete understanding of rat health, and we recommend using a commercially available vegan diet until you have that understanding. That you do not understand how and why that recipe is problematic proves that you are not ready to mix your own food. I am much less of an expert on rat nutrition as I am on dog nutrition, which is why I don't feed my own mix. There are perfectly viable commercial options that save me time, money, and worry.
> 
> ...


It barley has any sugar. Yes it has maple syrup but it's 1/4 cup for not even 8 cups of food!


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## SaberKatt (Mar 14, 2016)

How much sugar is in the syrup? How much sugar is in the applesauce? How much sugar is in the sweet potatoes? How much sugar is in corn? How much sugar is in brown rice? How about the rest of your ingredients? Keep in mind that while the syrup will have the most sugar, it is not the only source of sugar in that recipe. 
Basically, how much sugar, total, is in your recipe? 
How much sugar is a healthy amount for rats to consume daily? 
How much will your rats be consuming on a daily basis?

Can you make an accurate nutrition guide for your recipe, like what would be on the back of a commercial food? How many calories does it provide? What about vitamins, protein, etc.? How much fat does this recipe have? How much fat is healthy for a rat? There's a reason why making your own recipe, while rewarding, is difficult to get right! There are a lot of things to consider.


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## Andromeda (Apr 28, 2016)

Edie16 said:


> It barley has any sugar. Yes it has maple syrup but it's 1/4 cup for not even 8 cups of food!


Maple sugar is basically pure sugar, so really that's 1/4 cup of sugar. Applesauce also has a TON of sugar in it regardless of whether it's homemade or store bought, because apples have tons of sugar in them. Sweet potato, corn, and beans also have sugar in them. You also recommended supplementing with fruits and veggies, all of which have at least some amount of sugar in them.

It's generally accepted that 20% of a rat's diet be fruits and veggies. If your mix is 8 cups, that means that over 1/16 of their diet is pure sugar, plus the sugar from the fruits and vegetables you supplement with. Rats are small animals, and that is A LOT of sugar.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

This is why I added each ingredient...

I added the maple syrup to add zinc, calcium, and iron. I added the applesauce to enhance the vitamin c. I added the rice to add thiamin and magenesium. I added the oats to add carbohydrates, thiamin, riboflavin, and niacin. I added the corn to enhance the Vitamin B6, fiber, and pantothenic. I added the beans for fiber, vitamin c, and vitamin k. I added the sweet potato for vitamin A, vitamin B6, fiber, niacin, potassium, and manganese. I added the sunflower seeds for vitamin E, folate, and selenium. And I added the olive oil to make there coats shinyer. The things I added for babies was chia and hemp seeds with peanut or almond butter. This was to add to the protein and fat content, which is CRUTIAL for rats under 6 months of age. For extra B vitamins and cacium, I add a "dressing" of fortified nutritional yeast, almond milk, and a kids multivitamin to enhance the b vitamins. I will add rat specific vitamins once they come from Amazon. :blush:


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Andromeda said:


> Edie16 said:
> 
> 
> > I think veganism is bet for my pets! :blush: and you will think I'm crazy, but DOGS can thrive on a vegan diet. Look it up! Or not. Just don't think I'm cray cray
> ...


I only made one thread about feeding my rats vegan...


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## SaberKatt (Mar 14, 2016)

Edie16 said:


> This is why I added each ingredient...
> 
> I added the maple syrup to add zinc, calcium, and iron. I added the applesauce to enhance the vitamin c. I added the rice to add thiamin and magenesium. I added the oats to add carbohydrates, thiamin, riboflavin, and niacin. I added the corn to enhance the Vitamin B6, fiber, and pantothenic. I added the beans for fiber, vitamin c, and vitamin k. I added the sweet potato for vitamin A, vitamin B6, fiber, niacin, potassium, and manganese. I added the sunflower seeds for vitamin E, folate, and selenium. And I added the olive oil to make there coats shinyer. The things I added for babies was chia and hemp seeds with peanut or almond butter. This was to add to the protein and fat content, which is CRUTIAL for rats under 6 months of age. For extra B vitamins and cacium, I add a "dressing" of fortified nutritional yeast, almond milk, and a kids multivitamin to enhance the b vitamins. I will add rat specific vitamins once they come from Amazon. :blush:


I get that! But the thing about all of those foods is that the other things in them (sugar, fat, etc.) also add to the overall balance and nutrition of the diet and have to be considered as well. It looks like you looked into what rats need in their systems, which is great, but there's some math missing that makes your mix particularly dangerous as a base diet. It's less an issue of your rats not getting enough of x, y, and z as it is about them getting too much. Andromed'a post about sugar content is a good example.


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## Kokorobosoi (Jan 14, 2016)

Are you aware that the food you used to enhance vitamins.... Well all those vitamins are in a multivitamin? And overdoing vitamins can be just as bad as not enough? 

Fruit has fructose which is sugar
Maple syrup is basically pure sugar 
Carbs break down in the body and become sugar. The multivitamin Has sugar to make kids like it better. There is a massive amount of sugar there. 

This is coming from someone who cooks for two diabetics.if I made that mix and convinced someone in my house to eat it they would think I was trying to kill them.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Kokorobosoi said:


> Are you aware that the food you used to enhance vitamins.... Well all those vitamins are in a multivitamin? And overdoing vitamins can be just as bad as not enough?
> 
> Fruit has fructose which is sugar
> Maple syrup is basically pure sugar
> ...


I'm not overdoing vitamins. And the kids multivitamin is a unsweetened vitamin. No dyes, sugars, or sugars. Also I am awar that there is sugar but again, the sugar is low compared to the size of the mix. But the next time I make it I will leave the syrup. Also, all the ingredients are diabetic friendly. Your biggest concern is maple syrup I'm assuming, but it is diabetic friendly because of the low amount of fructose. (I'm not sure about that though I just read it in a book, btw). And fruit is most likely diabetic friendly just because it has sugar in it dosent mean it is unhealthy. My dad is a type2 diabetic and his doctor and nutritionist told him to eat lots of fruit and use maple syrup instead of normal sugar. Also why does it matter if the vitamins in the ingredients are found in multivitamins? I'm not going to feed them multivitamins for food.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

SaberKatt said:


> Edie16 said:
> 
> 
> > This is why I added each ingredient...
> ...


This isn't there base diet, I give them a lot of more different foods. The girls get 2 tablespoons and the boys get 1 tablespoon. I also give them other foods such as veggies with the occasional fruit. Also what about the mix has too much fat?


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## Ratatoullie (May 5, 2016)

Giving them fruits and veggies won't really make that big of a difference. Even if your mix isn't their main diet, it should not be fed period. You must consider what is best for your rats. You keep denying everyone in this thread when they are trying to recommend a vegan lab block for you. This recipe is the equivalent of giving each rat like 10 yogies every week.


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## Kokorobosoi (Jan 14, 2016)

SMH..... 

Those poor rats.


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## Andromeda (Apr 28, 2016)

Edie16 said:


> I'm not overdoing vitamins. And the kids multivitamin is a unsweetened vitamin. No dyes, sugars, or sugars. Also I am awar that there is sugar but again, the sugar is low compared to the size of the mix. But the next time I make it I will leave the syrup. Also, all the ingredients are diabetic friendly. Your biggest concern is maple syrup I'm assuming, but it is diabetic friendly because of the low amount of fructose. (I'm not sure about that though I just read it in a book, btw). And fruit is most likely diabetic friendly just because it has sugar in it dosent mean it is unhealthy. My dad is a type2 diabetic and his doctor and nutritionist told him to eat lots of fruit and use maple syrup instead of normal sugar. Also why does it matter if the vitamins in the ingredients are found in multivitamins? I'm not going to feed them multivitamins for food.


I'm a Type 1 diabetic, and I can tell you that maple syrup is definitely not 'diabetic friendly'. No syrup is, because it's _just sugar_. Fruit is not unhealthy, but it does have a lot of sugar in it. The reason they would encourage your dad to eat a lot of fruit if he's Type 2 is because Type 2 is generally caused by eating unhealthy foods, and yes, fruit is healthy. But there's a reason my blood sugar spikes when I fruit or maple syrup. They have a lot of sugar.


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## Sal (Mar 21, 2016)

Edie16 said:


> This is why I added each ingredient...
> 
> I added the maple syrup to add zinc, calcium, and iron. I added the applesauce to enhance the vitamin c. I added the rice to add thiamin and magenesium. I added the oats to add carbohydrates, thiamin, riboflavin, and niacin. I added the corn to enhance the Vitamin B6, fiber, and pantothenic. I added the beans for fiber, vitamin c, and vitamin k. I added the sweet potato for vitamin A, vitamin B6, fiber, niacin, potassium, and manganese. I added the sunflower seeds for vitamin E, folate, and selenium. And I added the olive oil to make there coats shinyer. The things I added for babies was chia and hemp seeds with peanut or almond butter. This was to add to the protein and fat content, which is CRUTIAL for rats under 6 months of age. For extra B vitamins and cacium, I add a "dressing" of fortified nutritional yeast, almond milk, and a kids multivitamin to enhance the b vitamins. I will add rat specific vitamins once they come from Amazon. :blush:


You're over-focusing on minerals and vitamins rather than nutrients.


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## Fu-Inle (Jan 22, 2015)

And they are not taking calories into consideration, and trust me, theres alot of it. The peanut butter alone is over 1000. Theres more to a diet than just vitamins, its all about balance.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

What is I just got rid of the maple syrup?


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

The entire mix is 1,769 calories. The carbs is -66%, fat is- 20%, and protein is 13%. I know you will be worried about these numbers because they are somewhat off but this is not there base diet. I give them a lot of other things too. My rats probably get around 15-30 calories from this mix and the rest from other foods.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

And because everyone was asking..

The sugar is 34 grams in the whole mix. Which is not even a half teaspoon everyday per rat! It's like less than 1/4 teaspoon of sugar for them and it's all HEALTHY sugar not processed stuff.


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## Fu-Inle (Jan 22, 2015)

If you want my honest opinion, I'd scrap it all and feed them oxbow, or if you prefer vegan, harlan teklad. All the nutrients they need are in those blocks. You don't have to worry about nutrients, its all there. You can still feed them the ingredients above (just be careful with peanut butter, the thick consistency can be a choking hazard, so tiny amounts at a time) but you really need to limit it, as a treat every now and then is fine, but every day is just too much. And fruit and veggies aswell.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Fu-Inle said:


> If you want my honest opinion, I'd scrap it all and feed them oxbow, or if you prefer vegan, harlan teklad. All the nutrients they need are in those blocks. You don't have to worry about nutrients, its all there. You can still feed them the ingredients above (just be careful with peanut butter, the thick consistency can be a choking hazard, so tiny amounts at a time) but you really need to limit it, as a treat every now and then is fine, but every day is just too much. And fruit and veggies aswell.


I don't worry about nutrients.


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## Ratatoullie (May 5, 2016)

So basically you don't worry about nutrients when you ARENT feeding a lab block? You are supposed to worry about nutrients because lab blocks are precise when it comes to nutrition and it sure seems that your mix is far from it.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Ratatoullie said:


> So basically you don't worry about nutrients when you ARENT feeding a lab block? You are supposed to worry about nutrients because lab blocks are precise when it comes to nutrition and it sure seems that your mix is far from it.


No I don't worry about them because I give them all they need. I even give them a multivitamin just to be sure.


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## Kokorobosoi (Jan 14, 2016)

Seriously.... I think I smell a troll


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Kokorobosoi said:


> Seriously.... I think I smell a troll


What's a troll? I know what a troll is that lives under the bridge but that's of f topic...


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## Ratatoullie (May 5, 2016)

*sighs*


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## Ratatoullie (May 5, 2016)

Look edie, I understand you want your rats to be vegan but you must take into consideration how healthy the mix really is. Numerous people are telling you the mix is inefficient but you still are trying to be defensive about it. There's tons of sugar and fat in this recipe and will kill your rats sooner. Please just listen to us and get a lab block like Harlan. It's vegan and is a complete diet. Don't argue with the people in this thread. They're helping you. I don't mean to be rude at all.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Ratatoullie said:


> Look edie, I understand you want your rats to be vegan but you must take into consideration how healthy the mix really is. Numerous people are telling you the mix is inefficient but you still are trying to be defensive about it. There's tons of sugar and fat in this recipe and will kill your rats sooner. Please just listen to us and get a lab block like Harlan. It's vegan and is a complete diet. Don't argue with the people in this thread. They're helping you. I don't mean to be rude at all.


The sugar and fat are in the good zones according to a website.


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## JAnimal (Jul 23, 2014)

Edie16 said:


> The entire mix is 1,769 calories. The carbs is -66%, fat is- 20%, and protein is 13%. I know you will be worried about these numbers because they are somewhat off but this is not there base diet. I give them a lot of other things too. My rats probably get around 15-30 calories from this mix and the rest from other foods.


A good fat percent is 5 percent or around that. Foods high in fat reduce the rat's ability to control energy consumption resulting in obesity.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

JAnimal said:


> Edie16 said:
> 
> 
> > The entire mix is 1,769 calories. The carbs is -66%, fat is- 20%, and protein is 13%. I know you will be worried about these numbers because they are somewhat off but this is not there base diet. I give them a lot of other things too. My rats probably get around 15-30 calories from this mix and the rest from other foods.
> ...


Then that website was wrong. :joy:


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## Ratatoullie (May 5, 2016)

Why do you assume that you're correct when the website you got YOUR information from could most likely be wrong as well??


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

Ratatoullie said:


> Why do you assume that you're correct when the website you got YOUR information from could most likely be wrong as well??


What?


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## JAnimal (Jul 23, 2014)

That was from many websites and rat books. I think that you need to grow up and do what is best for your rats.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

JAnimal said:


> That was from many websites and rat books. I think that you need to grow up and do what is best for your rats.


I am really confused


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## JAnimal (Jul 23, 2014)

You said that you were right because my source was wrong. Then I told you that it wasn't only one source and that you needed to grow up and do what is best for your rats which is giving them proper nutrients.


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## Edie16 (Apr 24, 2016)

JAnimal said:


> You said that you were right because my source was wrong. Then I told you that it wasn't only one source and that you needed to grow up and do what is best for your rats which is giving them proper nutrients.


When did I say that? All I said was them the website was wrong, but I was talking about the website I based my mix from.


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## JAnimal (Jul 23, 2014)

Edie16 said:


> When did I say that? All I said was them the website was wrong, but I was talking about the website I based my mix from.


Ok. Why did you put *:joy:* then


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