# Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head tilt



## Pink (Dec 27, 2007)

Hello,

One of my baby girls (about 3 months old), Dangerous Beans, started having some trouble yesterday. In the morning I noticed she was waving her head around a lot, but I didn't get too concerned, as all six of my girls are albino, and many of them have sight problems.

Later in the day I noticed her movements were rather jerky and spastic. I cage them in a modified flight cage, about 3x2 feet square on the bottom, and 5 feet tall. I've made shelves that hang tautly between two full length perches. There are currently two in the cage. She made it half way to the first shelf, turned around, and went up the other end of the cage. She had troubles climbing strait, moving in very jerky movements and in multiple directions.

I pulled her out of the cage, and immediately knew something was very wrong. She nearly feel out of my hands, even with my attempt to hold her securely. I quickly lowed her to only a couple inches above the ground (so if she did fall it wouldn't hurt). She was having a lot of trouble standing up strait and any movement caused her to fall over. She seems to have a lot of trouble knowing which way is up, and consequently takes a lot of time to become upright after tumbling.

I put a towel in the bottom of a larger cat carrier and suspended a water bottle in it. I also put in a small box with some bedding from her old cage, so she has something familiar. I'm extremely worried about her falling at this point.

Dangerous Beans has improved overnight. I have given her a couple ml of Ensure every hour or two while I've been awake, she is absolutely adorable eating out of the syringe. She does appear to still be drinking and eating, I just want to be absolutely certain that dehydration or anything doesn't complicate her getting better.

I cannot find any information about what could be happening to her, it doesn't seem to have the same symptoms as a stroke. She seems distressed, but not freaking out spastic distressed. Its more of just she isn't fully sure how to control her body, so she needs a bit more reassurance. Like, when I feed her Ensure she needs me to place a hand over her back so she feels more stable. The lady at the pet store (who owned several rats until she got so allergic she could no longer handle them, along with several other dedicated rat owners who work there) seems to think seizures.

She is the smallest of the four sisters. They come from a liter of 21 (yes, 21!) bred by a one time breeder who didn't know a lot. Up here, she was the best I could find. We're not nice to our rats in Alaska. They were removed from mama at about 4.5 week, I know it was too early, but I couldn't really do much about it. Since then they are all scardy rats, who will not come out of the cage volunteer (the two adults usually spend 4-8 hours out a day, and get angry that they don't get more). The biggest one has started exploring a little, but is still very nervous. Dangerous Beans is still the smallest (hence the name) and I am worried that keeping her outside the cage away from her sisters is scary for her, but I don't want any accidents to happen. I'm currently seeing if I can find a better used cage, I don't have the money to ship a Martin up here.

Does anyone have a clue what I can do?

Thanks
Pink


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

AT her age its most likely an inner ear infection, she needs to go to the vet and get abs in the least and hopefully steroids on top of it.

These are the same treatments we use for strokes as well so one treatment covers both(as well as PT but thats insanely young for that).


----------



## rattusnorvegicus (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*



lilspaz68 said:


> At her age its most likely an inner ear infection


true. but it could also be a slightly parrelized broken neck, or a brain tumer. keep tactful watch over your little one and keep us updated.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*



rattusnorvegicus said:


> lilspaz68 said:
> 
> 
> > At her age its most likely an inner ear infection
> ...


Rattus N., rats don't get _slightly paralyzed broken _necks, yes they do get brain tumours but they are more prevalent in older rats (15 months plus)


----------



## rattusnorvegicus (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*



lilspaz68 said:


> rattusnorvegicus said:
> 
> 
> > lilspaz68 said:
> ...


ya but stil, its probably a brain tumor and it just might be a slightly paralized broken neck. whatever it is besides a cold, its a head injury. take care and good luck. i hope your little one feels better soon. don't forget to wish your darling all my love.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*



rattusnorvegicus said:


> lilspaz68 said:
> 
> 
> > rattusnorvegicus said:
> ...


And where is your info backing up this supposition?


----------



## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

Chances are, as Lilspaz has said, it probably is an inner ear infection.

Rats are VERY prone to these - so the chance of it being a broken/paralised neck is MINIMAL.

I could be a stoke or PT, but considering her age, it's not very likely.

Pink, is there any updates about Dangerous Beans?


----------



## rattieluver (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

Oh, poor thing! I don't know much about these things so I 'm not really of any help but I just wanted to say good luck and I hope she feels better soon. Also you said you were afraid she would be scared in a cage of her own, mabye you could just put the two cages next to each other so they can see one another through the bars/openings.


----------



## Pink (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

Dangerous Beans is doing significantly better, so I am assuming she simply had an inner ear infection. She spent two days fairly bad, but now is most of the way back to normal. Her head still tilts a bit funny, but she doesn't have any troubles staying on what shes attempting to stand on, so I put her back into the main cage.

I completely changed their cage around, so it should be a lot cleaner now, and their upper respiratory shouldn't bother them again. I replaced the cloth shelves with plexi glass shelves, and made it so it is not possible for the rats to fall more than a foot or two anywhere, instead of the several possible feet (the cage is a 5 foot tall flight cage that came with no shelving). I still plan to do a lot of work with it, and then post some pictures. I can now completely clean it out in about 5 minuets, so i plan to clean it every other day until the sneezing disappears. The four babies developed a mild upper respiratory this last week, but are doing a lot better with the new shelving.

And for everyone who missed the reference in Dangerous Bean's name desperately needs to read Terry Pratchett's _The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents_. Its a great book with a lot of adorable little rats. My other three babies are Peaches, Sardines, and Nourishing.

Pink


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

Were you able to get meds for her inner ear infection? Untreated it could come back, they are very dangerous.


----------



## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

I second Lilspaz. Untreated it can also leave perminant damage and definately could leave you open to second, third etc attacks of it.

Keep an eye on the URI's too - are you treating these? Or is it just the odd sneeze?


----------



## crapola (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*



Pink said:


> She is the smallest of the four sisters. They come from a liter of 21 (yes, 21!) bred by a one time breeder who didn't know a lot. Up here, she was the best I could find. We're not nice to our rats in Alaska. They were removed from mama at about 4.5 week, I know it was too early, but I couldn't really do much about it. Since then they are all scardy rats, who will not come out of the cage volunteer (the two adults usually spend 4-8 hours out a day, and get angry that they don't get more). The biggest one has started exploring a little, but is still very nervous.  Dangerous Beans is still the smallest (hence the name) and I am worried that keeping her outside the cage away from her sisters is scary for her, but I don't want any accidents to happen. I'm currently seeing if I can find a better used cage, I don't have the money to ship a Martin up here.
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what I can do?
> 
> ...


good luck with finding a vet anywhere in alaska who will deal with rats!! i lived there for four years, and i know how much alaskans hate rats, and how narrow-minded they can be, especially rick sinnot. i get the anchorage daily news online, and see many articles about his crusade to rid alaska of all rats, not just wild ones...

as for dangerous beans headtilt... one of my girls has headtilt. meds didnt do anything for her (partly my fault, i couldnt find a vet who would even look at her at the time), but she is fine and manages very well with her tilt. the only thing she really has any problems with is getting out of hammocks or baskets, but she has worked it out so she can get out of them on her own.


----------



## Pink (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

Yes, Alaska is VERY harsh to our rats. The city I live in at least reluctantly allows us to have albinos (I would LOVE to have some of the gorgeous rats that you all have, but they are extremely illegal and difficult to find up here, all there is up here are the albino feeders).

I don't know if I can take dangerous beans and her sisters to the vet. It's about $75 to just walk through the door at the only vet I think would consider rats. My boyfriend and I are in the process of paying our way through school, so spending several hundred dollars just to get the four babies looked at is pretty difficult. And I don't have a whole lot of faith in that one vet clinic, they have tried pretty hard to convince my that I'm killing my cats by feeding them homemade food (even though the home made food saved two of their lives).

Dangerous Beans barely even has a head tilt, and her three sisters just have the sniffles. My two adults have had multiple URI (all when they were younger, have not been infected since they were adults) and have come out fine. Their feeder rats, their not healthy, and I truly cannot do anything about that. Breeders aren't an option for me (unless I go through the girl that breeds purely for color, and the feeds them all to snakes anyway, and I would have to order more than 20 if I did that).

I'll call up vets this afternoon and see if I can get a better quote from anyone, but I really cannot afford over $100.

Pink


----------



## Meliss (Sep 1, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

It might be an inner ear infection my male had one of these and was very dizzy-- and we didn't catch it in time--- now he has nerve damage in his one ear, but he isn't dizzy anymore--- he is not compelety back to the way he was --- he sometimes walks around in circles, and his personality has changed he gets very hyper now--- but he also gets very lovable and loves to cuddle too.


----------



## Darksong17 (Feb 11, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

I don't know where you are in Alaska Pinky but I did some looking into recommended rat vets in Alaska and found the following:

Dr. Alison Rominger
VCA Eagle River Animal Hospital
12320 Old Glenn Hwy.
Eagle River, Alaska 99577
907-694-3800
[email protected]



Then I looked into exotic vets in general in Alaska:

Dr. Vicki Craig
Facility: Homer Veterinary Clinic 
Address: 326 Woodside Ave. Homer AK 99603
Phone: 907-235-8960

Exotic Pets Seen:
Rabbits Ferrets Chinchillas Sugar Gliders Prairie Dogs Hedgehogs Pocket Pets (gerbils, hamsters, etc.) Miscellaneous Exotic Pets




Dr. Lorelei Cuthbert
Facility: All Creatures Veterinary Clinic
Address: 4360 Snider Drive Wasilla AK 99654
Phone: 907-376-7930

Exotic Pets Seen:
Not Specified





Dr. Jackie Frederickson
Facility: VCA Alaska Pet Care
Address: 3900 Lake Otis Parkway Anchorage AK 99508
Phone: 907-562-7387

Exotic Pets Seen:
Rabbits Ferrets Chinchillas Sugar Gliders Hedgehogs Pocket Pets (gerbils, hamsters, etc.) Miscellaneous Exotic Pets





Dr. Shaina Pruden
Facility: Hopi Animal Hospital
Address: 5533 E. Bell Road Scottsdale AK 85254
Phone: 602-494-4674
Website: www.hopianimalhosipital.com

Exotic Pets Seen:
Not Specified



Then I took a look at general vet clinics in Alaska: http://healthypet.aahanet.org/eweb/...LocResults&org=&city=&state=AK&zip=&Type=name


I really hope _something_ here can help you .


----------



## rattusnorvegicus (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

did a little research on this topic for the last couple days and yes, it is most likely to be an inner ear-infection. check with your vet just to make sure and maybe he or she will be happy to give you a persciption. i hope you will get help soon. :sad: please tell her i wish her (and you) all my luck.


----------



## Pink (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

Thanks, but all of those vets are at least a six hour drive, I live in Fairbanks, in the interior. I'm calling local vets to get estimates now.

Pink


----------



## Pink (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

I called up the vets in town, and found two that could treat them for under a hundred (and a couple quotes in the couple hundreds range). Unfortunately, they are all booked for the next week or two.

All four girls are breathing clearly now, even though they do have regular sneezing still. Dangerous Beans still has a bit of a head tilt, but nothing that prevents her from doing normal ratty things. Unfortunately, she may just always have it, but I am designing the interior of the cage so that she doesn't have too far to fall anywhere, so she should be ok. She's still eating a lot.

Thanks
Pink


----------



## crapola (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*



Darksong17 said:


> I don't know where you are in Alaska Pinky but I did some looking into recommended rat vets in Alaska and found the following:
> 
> Dr. Shaina Pruden
> Facility: Hopi Animal Hospital
> ...


scottsdale is in arizona, not alaska.


----------



## crapola (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*



Pink said:


> I called up the vets in town, and found two that could treat them for under a hundred (and a couple quotes in the couple hundreds range). Unfortunately, they are all booked for the next week or two.
> 
> All four girls are breathing clearly now, even though they do have regular sneezing still. Dangerous Beans still has a bit of a head tilt, but nothing that prevents her from doing normal ratty things. Unfortunately, she may just always have it, but I am designing the interior of the cage so that she doesn't have too far to fall anywhere, so she should be ok. She's still eating a lot.
> 
> ...


seeing as you've found a couple of vets who will look at your ratties, i suggest that you take dangerous beans to one of them and get her checked out. if it is an inner ear infection, the tilt can be treated.

when you said the nearest city was 350 miles away from you, i figured it had to be fairbanks where you live. unfortunately, i didnt get to go there, but i would have loved to.


----------



## Pink (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

I'm not going to take in Dangerous Beans if her and the others continue to improve daily. I would, except no one has openings until next week, which is too far away to prevent permanent damage. I could see someone sooner, but it would cost me several hundred dollars, and I have school payments to make later this month. She is doing considerably better, and it takes looking at her for a few minutes before you can notice that she isn't quite normal.

Fairbanks is a great place, its sad you missed it. I grew up in Anchorage, but even the regular forty below zero in the winter isn't enough to force me back there. It has a much more relaxed way of live, I live without running water, which is viewed as perfectly normal and accepted out here (and a bit cold when you have to run out to the outhouse at forty below). The summers are gorgeous, dry, and seventy degrees during the day.

Pink


----------



## Darksong17 (Feb 11, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*



crapola said:


> Darksong17 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know where you are in Alaska Pinky but I did some looking into recommended rat vets in Alaska and found the following:
> ...


Weird, it was listed in Alaska =/


----------



## crapola (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*



Darksong17 said:


> crapola said:
> 
> 
> > Darksong17 said:
> ...


the zip code and the phone area code are dead giveaways... alaskan zips always start with 99... and all phone area codes are (907)

and my ex-husbands cousin lives in scottsdale, az, and i recognised that zip, lol


----------



## crapola (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*



Pink said:


> I'm not going to take in Dangerous Beans if her and the others continue to improve daily. I would, except no one has openings until next week, which is too far away to prevent permanent damage. I could see someone sooner, but it would cost me several hundred dollars, and I have school payments to make later this month. She is doing considerably better, and it takes looking at her for a few minutes before you can notice that she isn't quite normal.
> 
> Fairbanks is a great place, its sad you missed it. I grew up in Anchorage, but even the regular forty below zero in the winter isn't enough to force me back there. It has a much more relaxed way of live, I live without running water, which is viewed as perfectly normal and accepted out here (and a bit cold when you have to run out to the outhouse at forty below). The summers are gorgeous, dry, and seventy degrees during the day.
> 
> Pink


like i said in an earlier post, one of my girls manages very well with her head tilt, so hopefully dangerous beans will too 

and dont you have gigantic mosquitoes up there? i thought they were large enough in anchorage but someone told me they were so much bigger in fairbanks. 70F is about my temperature heat limit, lol (so why the **** am i back in aussieland, suffering through another long, stinking hot summer), and the cold didnt really bother me that much, although having an outhouse might. like the saying goes... alaska is only an hour out of anchorage!! hahahaha!!


----------



## Pink (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

I am still considering the vet, but all the rats seem to be doing fine, and we are down to occasional sneezes. I'm going to work on building ladders for Dangerous Beans here in the next few days. I hadn't built them yet, as all the young rats leap around the cage, and use the side as ladders, so I didn't think I needed them, but Dangerous Beans' rear end tends to make it to the lower level at the same time as her front end, and I think a ladder would be more comfortable for her.

The outhouse isn't as bad as you would think, since their used daily we have clean, large, and nice to use outhouses, not the nasty things you find on back country trails or whatnot. We also use blue foam instead of a toilet seat, which not only stays cleaner, but feels warm down to 40 below. That's pretty important to the females in the cabin. Its a simpler way of life, and you come to really love it. I heated with wood last winter, and I actually really really miss chopping wood for heat.

Pink


----------



## Pink (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

So, I'm taking Dangerous Beans into the vet today. She hasn't continued to improve. I noticed last night (to late to go to the vet) that she was getting dehydrated. As far as I can see she is eating and drinking fine, but I started up with the Ensure every couple of hours again. She'll be at the vet in two hours, and we can start the poor little girl on some antibiotics. I hope this vet knows a thing about rats, but I'm bring in a list of antibiotics that are commonly used for rats, in case she doesn't have as much experience as I hope (rats are fairly uncommon as pets up here, for the above stated reasons).

Pink


----------



## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

 I'm sorry to hear that about Dangerous Beans.

Well done on taking that list though. Never fault yourself for being prepared - especially with vets that you don't regularily deal with. Sometimes (and somewhat sadly) the best rattie vet is it's owner. I see two vets at the same practice - one I like and one I don't get on with so well - and I constantly ask questions, do research and give suggestions upon medication, and although they make get annoyed, they are tolerant. 7 times out of 10, what I suggest works and it's thanks to places like this that they do.

Good luck with Dangerous Beans. Hopefully a good course of abs will sort her out. My fingers are crossed \x/


----------



## crapola (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

let us know how you get on at the vets.


----------



## Pink (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: Young rat girl having troubles with stability / head til*

Little Dangerous Beans is doing a lot better now that she is fully hydrated.

I don't think the vet had seen a lot of rats before, she seemed quite amazed by the fact that Dangerous Beans drinks Ensure strait from the syringe greedily. Have to say that wasn't a hard skill to teach, and half of my other rats have picked it up from her (the get the occasional syringe full as a treat, they really love it). She did prescribed Baytril though, which seems to be quite common with rats. So, Dangerous Beans is getting Baytril twice a day with her Ensure for the next 10 days. She is doing a lot better, but still sneezes a lot.

Pink


----------

