# Belly formed on my new baby.



## kenzierey

I just got two new girls who are 9 weeks old. They are not litter mates. One is tiny tiny tiny and the other one is quite a bit bigger. I have only had them since Saturday. But in those couple of days a belly has really seemed to pop out on the bigger girl. She definitely did not have this belly Saturday. Another weird thing is that I have a basket in their cage with fleece scraps and stuff. For the last day and a half she has not really even come out of the basket. She hides underneath the fleece. I was wondering if this could be her nesting. She has also been sleeping a lot! Like all the time. I'm hoping I'm just going crazy and she couldn't possibly be pregnant. Really hoping she is just a chubber. But the belly is so significantly larger my boyfriend said something too. Last night her belly did seem to be larger than it is this morning. I didn't get any pics last night but I took a couple this morning. It was also lower on her yesterday, closer to the vagina. Idk just tell me I'm crazy! Lol 
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I did a terrible job getting the belly to show in the pics. Also I swear her nipples were protruding more last night. Gahh I really am just crazy. Haha 


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## nanashi7

Start a count, and for the next 5-6 days, every 6 hours if you can, or 12 at least (morning/night) check her vaginal opening to see if it has expanded. Also watch for humping, wagging ears, and sticking her butt in the air if you touch her hips/back. If you observe this, she isn't pregnant.

If not, you'll know by March 5th. Sooner if she is showin signs.


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> Start a count, and for the next 5-6 days, every 6 hours if you can, or 12 at least (morning/night) check her vaginal opening to see if it has expanded. Also watch for humping, wagging ears, and sticking her butt in the air if you touch her hips/back. If you observe this, she isn't pregnant.
> 
> If not, you'll know by March 5th. Sooner if she is showin signs.


Thanks Nanashi! Will do! I really appreciate that you've always got great advice to give! 


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## kenzierey

Any other opinions? I am wondering if I should put her in her own cage for the time being until I know for sure.


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## kenzierey

Just ripped up some paper and put it in her cage to test if she really is nesting. She immediately started grabbing one piece at a time and building a nest. so sorry to keep posting but I am just trying to be as prepared as possible. I'm freaking out just a little. Wasn't expecting this at all


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## cagedbirdsinging

I saw on your other post that your "breeder" confirmed the accident.

I wanted to mention that there is no way this rat is only 9 weeks old. Run from your "breeder" and never look back.


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## kenzierey

cagedbirdsinging said:


> I saw on your other post that your "breeder" confirmed the accident.
> 
> I wanted to mention that there is no way this rat is only 9 weeks old. Run from your "breeder" and never look back.


Lol yeah that's the last rat from her. I will stick to rescuing from now on. And are you sure she can't be 9 weeks? She is pretty small. A lot smaller than my 12 week old girlies.
It would be awesome if she wasn't,
I don't want her having babes this young! 


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## franjf

When I thought one of my rescue girls was pregnant, i put her in her own cage with lots of nesting material. She built a massive nest and stomach kept growing but no babies! It's better to be safe than sorry, i'd put her in her own cage for a while just to make sure. You can start weighing her, a steady increase in weight will probably mean she is pregnant. As it gets later towards the pregnancy you may be able to see the babies moving in her stomach or if you put your hand lightly on the abdomen and feel them. I'd just prepare for her being pregnant so if she is you have everything ready and if not there's no harm done.


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## Isamurat

Thats definitly an adult faced rat, so shes definitly over 13 weeks, probably more like 6 from her maturity, though a clearer photo of her in a normal position would help. Size isnt a good guide at all as a rat can be the same age but twice as big if they are raised in a certain way or there genes dictate they will be big or small.

I would probably leave her in her main cage assuming she has friends to live with. Or move her and a couple of friends into a small cage. She doesnt look ready to pop yet though it does look like she has a belly on her. The belly gets much more rounded when they are ready to pop and tends to drop lower and bulge more out the front than the sides. I normally move my does into there birthing cage with a couple of friends until a day before there due (late day 21) so they can settle without feeling lonely or bored. I have had one doe give birth with here friends in the cage and it wasnt a big deal. I jsut removed the other rats when i got home who were sat looking terrified in the hammock id left in (which was also removed to stop mum putting the babies in it).

Nesting isnt the best sign of if a doe is pregnant or not, pretty much all my does have nested to some degree, some obsessively so, without being at all pregnant


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## kenzierey

Here are some pictures of her... 
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Those ones were from the breeder on February 28th

And this is the day I got her, Saturday, March 15th 

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I am going to ask her now for the exact birthdates of my girls. 

The breeder said the incident happened "a couple weeks ago" she isn't sure when exactly but her due date must be very near. 



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## Korra

Oh geez wow, that isnt a nine week old. Yeah, agree with what others have said.


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## kenzierey

Gahhhh I have no clue how old she is... The breeder insists on her being 10 weeks old. 9 weeks the week I got her. I have no clue how old she would possibly be then. I swear she seems younger than my 13 week old girls. And I don't know if it makes a difference or not but their teeth are a lot smaller than my other girls too. Like tiny. I'm so upset that this whole situation happened. Who would do that? Especially a "breeder"!! And I drove an hour and a half to go get these girls. 

At least they are super adorable and sweet!


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## Isamurat

Her face is fairly mature but her body is still quite small, that could be due to lack of good nutrition (try giving her some scrambled egg and cooked fish etc to give her a boost), her coat is a bit dull which back sup her not having everything she needed growing up, its harder to tell with her sister being rex. She could be around 13 weeks up to about 4 or 5 months I think. Shes not as old as I thought from the first photo. It is hard though as some breeders breed rats that grow very fast, its not something I prefer but some do as they can be shown earlier. However the fact they are potentially pregnant is awful, has she offered to help in any way?


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## kenzierey

Isamurat said:


> Her face is fairly mature but her body is still quite small, that could be due to lack of good nutrition (try giving her some scrambled egg and cooked fish etc to give her a boost), her coat is a bit dull which back sup her not having everything she needed growing up, its harder to tell with her sister being rex. She could be around 13 weeks up to about 4 or 5 months I think. Shes not as old as I thought from the first photo. It is hard though as some breeders breed rats that grow very fast, its not something I prefer but some do as they can be shown earlier. However the fact they are potentially pregnant is awful, has she offered to help in any way?


Asked her for the birth dates again! She told me December 21 now for the black girl so just about 13 weeks! And then December 27th for my Rex girl! I can't believe she lied about the age.. Just crazy to me... I have been giving her scrambled eggs. She hasn't been too interested in eating though. She does nibble a bit but she's definitely not eating and drinking like a normal rat. Is this just because she is pregnant? And the breeder was very apologetic, which I was actually grateful for. She told the truth, though she probably should have a while ago. She has offered to help with rehoming but that is it. Didn't offer to take them back or help in any other way. She did send me a picture of the dad though. Lol 

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## nanashi7

They look like they could be high-white...definitely do not return to the breeder, and I would "ask" she kindly aid in any costs of medication OR give you a cage for birth/nursing.


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## Isamurat

Not bad guess then, they look to be growing fairly normally. I must say i can loose track of how old my babies are after a while, but I always know when they are 5 weeks (time to split the sexes) and 7 weeks (the minimum age i'll let them go to there new homes).

In terms of eating pregnant rats normal get a massive increase in appetite, in fact its one of the things that stands out when i've mated a rat up, suddenly they become food obsessed. In your girls case its possible she was raised on a very dull diet, possibly mainly lab blocks (i'd check what they've been fed growing up). Rats like this are often nervous of new foods, its a natural instinct to help protect them from poisens. Its worth trying a few different things to see what they like, the idea is to boost the amount of protien and oil they have. This will help them grow and give them some support through there pregnancy if you dont want to or arent able to terminate it. At that age being in with a boy would be a pretty garunteed pergnancy, young girls are very fertile even if i would rather not see them raise a litter (they deserve to be able to be kittens for a while before having to raise there own). Some other ideas for high protien meals;

Chicken on the bone, cooked - or try some chicken meat mixed with some pasta.
Kitten or puppy food, mush it up and offer a couple tablespoons (1 per rat)
Egg - whole (boiled) or scrambled, of if they wont take it like that most love it soaked into bread then microwaved (eggy bread) or stirred into cooked rice and microwaved (eggy rice)
Baby food - not as high in protien but most rats will eat a bit, aim for 7 months + and savoury, mix with a bit of baby porridge to boost it
Tinned fish, ideal sardines in tomato sauce or pichards. Avoid anything in brine and tuna should only be fed once a week max
Sheel fish or sea food (they probably wont eat these at first, try upping the variety they are used to first)


High protien treats - these seem a good introduction or topper up, most rats will take these easily
Good quality cat or dog kibble, give them a peice now and then as a treat
Whole dried fish or fish skins (my pet shop sells fish jerky which is twisted up fish skins, the rats love them)
Seeds, ideally in there shells, a bit high in oi for long terml but fine for babies


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> They look like they could be high-white...definitely do not return to the breeder, and I would "ask" she kindly aid in any costs of medication OR give you a cage for birth/nursing.


Yeah I would never give them back anyway. But wouldnt you think she would at least offer? I actually have a lot of cages and stuff that I could use so I am all set with cages. I have the two girls in a separate cage right now. And I have a glass tank that I could use if need be. Can I just ask what makes you think they could be high-white? the color? My biggest fear is having a litter with megacolon. Well actually my biggest fear is something going wrong with my girls. I am frantically searching for galastrop. Can't seem to find it on the internet for US. Is it called something else here? I talked to my vet on the phone this morning and she seemed very against terminating the pregnancy at this point for some reason. Though I love and respect my vets, I can't say that I always agree with them. I am asking my aunt, a vet who lives very far away if she could get it for me. She said she will call me back. Hopefully she can send me some galastrop and get it to me before they have their babies. I hope she calls soon.


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## kenzierey

Isamurat said:


> Not bad guess then, they look to be growing fairly normally. I must say i can loose track of how old my babies are after a while, but I always know when they are 5 weeks (time to split the sexes) and 7 weeks (the minimum age i'll let them go to there new homes).
> In terms of eating pregnant rats normal get a massive increase in appetite, in fact its one of the things that stands out when i've mated a rat up, suddenly they become food obsessed. In your girls case its possible she was raised on a very dull diet, possibly mainly lab blocks (i'd check what they've been fed growing up). Rats like this are often nervous of new foods, its a natural instinct to help protect them from poisens. Its worth trying a few different things to see what they like, the idea is to boost the amount of protien and oil they have. This will help them grow and give them some support through there pregnancy if you dont want to or arent able to terminate it. At that age being in with a boy would be a pretty garunteed pergnancy, young girls are very fertile even if i would rather not see them raise a litter (they deserve to be able to be kittens for a while before having to raise there own). Some other ideas for high protien meals;
> 
> Chicken on the bone, cooked - or try some chicken meat mixed with some pasta.
> Kitten or puppy food, mush it up and offer a couple tablespoons (1 per rat)
> Egg - whole (boiled) or scrambled, of if they wont take it like that most love it soaked into bread then microwaved (eggy bread) or stirred into cooked rice and microwaved (eggy rice)
> Baby food - not as high in protien but most rats will eat a bit, aim for 7 months + and savoury, mix with a bit of baby porridge to boost it
> Tinned fish, ideal sardines in tomato sauce or pichards. Avoid anything in brine and tuna should only be fed once a week max
> Sheel fish or sea food (they probably wont eat these at first, try upping the variety they are used to first)
> 
> 
> High protien treats - these seem a good introduction or topper up, most rats will take these easily
> Good quality cat or dog kibble, give them a peice now and then as a treat
> Whole dried fish or fish skins (my pet shop sells fish jerky which is twisted up fish skins, the rats love them)
> Seeds, ideally in there shells, a bit high in oi for long terml but fine for babies




Yeah that was a great guess haha. And Thank you I am gonna try the egg in the bread as soon as I get home. I think she would probably go for that. And I also have puppy and baby food! I have been giving her the baby food for a couple of days now and she really does seem to love that. I also have a lab block that was way too high in protein for my liking...Should I give her that instead of the lower protein lab block for the time being?


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## nanashi7

I think I posted it in your other thread, cabergoline in the US. Vets are usually hesitant if they believe it is late in the litter, as there can be a risk with it. So, by the time I took Caius to the vet to confirm pregnancy she was 1 week from birth so no e-spay...

And, to put simply: the white goes too high up on her sides. The father looks like a banded rat, which is high white. My litter was HW but thankfully no MC.
Here's my Persephone, who could be twinsies with your girl. You can see the white goes too high up, instead of properly stopping in a solid line: http://i.imgur.com/7Z2yS0X.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LX68yoH.jpg Her brother, Milo has much better tummy markings but still carries the high risk: http://i.imgur.com/GiHl2HQ.jpg


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> I think I posted it in your other thread, cabergoline in the US. Vets are usually hesitant if they believe it is late in the litter, as there can be a risk with it. So, by the time I took Caius to the vet to confirm pregnancy she was 1 week from birth so no e-spay...
> 
> And, to put simply: the white goes too high up on her sides. The father looks like a banded rat, which is high white. My litter was HW but thankfully no MC.
> Here's my Persephone, who could be twinsies with your girl. You can see the white goes too high up, instead of properly stopping in a solid line: http://i.imgur.com/7Z2yS0X.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LX68yoH.jpg Her brother, Milo has much better tummy markings but still carries the high risk: http://i.imgur.com/GiHl2HQ.jpg


I really hope theres no MC! I am thinking that she is gonna have her litter within the next two or 3 days from what I've read. Her belly has gotten significantly bigger. She is now popping out in the front a lot as well as the sides. It looks like theres a ball inside her like everyone says. If she actually is due to have her litter this soon, would it be too late or is galastrop useful even at the very end of the pregnancy?


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## nanashi7

I can't find any quantification, but it says it has been used in "late stage pregnancies", which could be anywhere from 15-21 days...when did the male incident happen?

Your breeder really pisses me off. She should've A) Not bred high-risk colors B) Not sold older rats as younger ones and C) should've kept them for 21 days after any "incident"...and there shouldn't have been tthe possibility of an accident....


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> I can't find any quantification, but it says it has been used in "late stage pregnancies", which could be anywhere from 15-21 days...when did the male incident happen?
> 
> Your breeder really pisses me off. She should've A) Not bred high-risk colors B) Not sold older rats as younger ones and C) should've kept them for 21 days after any "incident"...and there shouldn't have been tthe possibility of an accident....


Yeah she pisses me off a lot too. I can't even imagine doing this to someone. This is like a nightmare situation I never thought would happen. I asked her for a date that the incident happened and she said she can't pinpoint one. That it happened "a couple weeks ago." And she also said that she thought nothing of it because he wasn't in there long... Apparently she isn't aware of how fast they can breed... Stupid, stupid woman. Seems like she knows almost nothing about rats. It's scary that people can be so careless with a life. Even though it may be "just a rat" it's still a living creature. So, so sad. 


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## nanashi7

Now you can see why we don't like discussing intentional breeding...most of the people aren't very intelligent and just want a quick buck, instead of trying to better the fancy. 

A couple of weeks ago is so vague. If that is true, then it seems she will burst in a few days and it will be too late - If you got her on the 15th and it had occured somewhere between the 28th-3rd, then the latest she'd give birth is Monday...

She should have been able to tell immediately if mating had occurred (there is a mucus plug post-coitus). At least your other girl doesn't seem to be showing.


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> Now you can see why we don't like discussing intentional breeding...most of the people aren't very intelligent and just want a quick buck, instead of trying to better the fancy.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago is so vague. If that is true, then it seems she will burst in a few days and it will be too late - If you got her on the 15th and it had occured somewhere between the 28th-3rd, then the latest she'd give birth is Monday...
> 
> She should have been able to tell immediately if mating had occurred (there is a mucus plug post-coitus). At least your other girl doesn't seem to be showing.


I'm sure she knew but just wanted to make some money anyway... She must have known... I am starting to notice a belly on my Rex girl now too. And she is losing more and more hair around her nipples. Though, I could be crazy and paranoid now. Let's hope for that. How long does the mucus plug stay for because I did notice a little drop that looked like liquid or something on her vagina a couple days ago. Geeze.... 
Also.. Just looked at a couple of things she said.. "Genetics are like rainbows, you never know what you're gonna get.." Though this would be true for someone like me cause I suck at genetics and know close to nothing but shouldn't a breeder be very familiar with genetics?.... Also just saw that she wrote something about the girls being in their tank.... Oh god I'm such an idiot. I can't believe I didn't pick up on those little statements. I should have never dealt with her.. But I always look for the good in people and I believe I was blinded by the cuteness of the girls. I'm sad that this is partially my fault for not realizing what I was dealing with here. I feel like a complete idiot. But I guess I am learning the hard way. HAHA. 


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## nanashi7

The plug usually is gone in a day or two. It is just to "hold" the Semen in to my knowledge. 

And, genetics are not like rainbows (least of all for a breeder!) if that is supposed to mean random. You can clearly make a prediction of what will occur by the history - which is why breeding with a history is so important! I'm sure Isamurat could explain better, but if you had a line of standard ear and coats, you would never expect a dumbo Rex. When your mom has blue eyes and your dad has blue eyes, you get 50/50 chance of blue eyes but when your mom has blue eyes and your dad has brown eyes it's more like 25/75 blue eye chance. It is a lot more complex but essentially very predictable. The variety my litter showed was expected and more shows they came from bad lines. 


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## kenzierey

Yeah I've done your basic Punnett square and studied very simplified, basic genetics. I feel like most people have at some point in their life... To say genetics is like rainbows is so ignorant... 
I am wondering if my Rex girl is pregnant by that Rex male that I posted the picture of.. Does that mean that there may be double rex's? This may be a stupid question. I don't even know. Lol I know nothing when it comes to that... But I am posting ads and stuff to hopefully get some people to claim babies if they end up having them. Hopefully my aunt can get that medication to me before they go into labor but I am seriously doubting that as she lives in Washington and I, in Mass. I have tried researching the genetics and stuff the last couple of days but just can't really sort it out it looks like a bunch of nothing to me. I would love to get more into it but can't really find a place to start. 


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## nanashi7

I believe that you could get double rexes if they both carry the genes but it is pretty slim, if I remember correctly. Your standard and him will make poor quality rexes which gave me velveteen looking rats and a single satin looking male that I can tell apart from touch. 

I can't help with predicting colors, especially since I can't know what they carry. I do know genetically that there aren't exactly bad effects to inbreeding but any bad traits have the possibility of being intensified. There are web sites directly related to rat genetics and color/coat predictions. I'd ask for some genetic history of this line. 

For the genetics of hw, litters can be small in size but not number (Caius has 13) and can have basic problems. Mine are a bit buck toothed and boogly eyed because of their skull forming with growth issues. At nearly a year, my girls are still smaller than mum. Mc warning signs can be in odd eye and ear spots that are solid colored instead of ticked. 


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## nanashi7

Oh and post an ad here, that's how I adopted out five of mine


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## kenzierey

Thanks that's good to know. I am so terrified of MC. I am really hoping that everything goes smoothly. I am getting more and more nervous by the minute because I am realizing more and more that I have no clue what I am doing. I have read a lot of information and have researched a lot but I have never witnessed something being raised from birth or raised anything myself in my life. It's quite nerve racking. But I am super intrigued.. I just wish I could have been a little more prepared!! 


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## Isamurat

Theres info on galastop dosage here if its any help, I dont know about the other lne, they only need 1 dose to effectively terminate pregnancy, its very effective http://www.fancyratsforum.co.uk/vie...=138344&hilit=galastop,+pregnant+dose#p138344

In terms of genetics, whilst a rainbow litter can happen in an established line (we have a few potential reccesives floating around in the history of our line whi h could all turn up in one litter, you cant tell for sure what recceives each rat carries unless you do test matings), to describe all littersas rainbow is quite scary actually, it indicates your mixing things you dont know. I can tell you the vast majority of our litters will be agouti and black, maybe with cinnamon, mink showing up, theres a small chance of topaz and buff and an even smaller chance of rb which hasnt shown up for many generations now. In some matings there is a good chance of dumbo. That to me isnt rainbow, as much of its known. If your breeder doesnt know that then she hasnt got decent backgrounds on her rats so they are relative unknowns genetically. Im lucky this line has been around for many many years, our new outcrosses are also from well established lines, so when a surprise pops up (we got pearl kn the last litter) you can trace it to a certain ancestor which is nice.


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## Isamurat

Meant to add, I woild ask you breeder for a copy of the family tree for your babies and dad, if you chuck that across I can give you an idea what to expect.

Id say the girls dont look high white to me, but here in the uk high white isnt common and isnt a big issue. Your first girl is black berkshire for me, second girl probably russian blue agouti rex and the dad looks cinnamon rex, both probably berkys. As a first stab you woild expect the following unless other stuff is carried (which is likley given the rainbow description). 

Girl 1 x dad - agouti marked babies, probably hooded though some berkys with lots of white woild be fair. If dad carries self youll get some black, if mum carries mink youll get some cinnys and possibly minks. They will be roughly 50% rex

Girl 2 x dad - again marked agouti, 1/4 smooth coated, 1/2 standard rex, 1/4 double rex, though you may not see much different from one type of rex to another. Again if dad and mum carries self youll get some black, if dad carries rb youll get rba and rb, if mum carries mink then cinny and possibly mink,theres also a chance of a combo, so getting russian dove and dove agouti. Thats only the obvious stuff.


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## kenzierey

Hi guys. Still no babies. My black berk Mammie is getting gigantic. And gets bigger and bigger by the minute I swear. And my little rex girl, Squirrel seems to be getting bigger too. And like I have said her nipples are very pronounced and there is less and less hair around them. She isn't very big at all though. She only has a little bit of a protruding belly. I'm still hoping she isn't pregnant but It's safer for me to assume she is. I am wondering if sometimes their bellies just don't get very big if its a small litter or something? 

I begged the "breeder" to try to pinpoint a date of when the incident with the male happened. I said that even knowing the week it happened would help but she cant pin point it. I am so annoyed with this stupid woman. So I literally have no idea when they are due which is very scary to me. 

My boyfriend and I have decided against the galastrop. I know it would probably be safer for mommas but my boyfriend is really freaked out by the idea of terminating and has kind of freaked me out too. He also doesn't want to go against what the vet said. We decided to let nature run its course and make this a learning experience and we are both really excited now to see something so special happen. I am just hoping it happens soon!!

Isamurat, that is absolutely amazing to me that you could know all that from a picture. I am so intrigued by the genetics now and I really want to study it more!! Thanks for all the help guys!!


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## Kinsey

Good luck! I too am horrified at the breeder. But sounds like you have it under control. 

Share pictures when they are born. The rex is probably also pregnant, their nipples become more pronounced and they sometimes groom the hair away from them.


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## kenzierey

Kinsey said:


> Good luck! I too am horrified at the breeder. But sounds like you have it under control.
> 
> Share pictures when they are born. The rex is probably also pregnant, their nipples become more pronounced and they sometimes groom the hair away from them.


LOL yeah this breeder is awful. I wish I could report her somehow to someone. If you could only see the things she has said to me. She was also trying to get me to leave the pregnant girls with the rest of my colony in my DCN. I know some people do that and it isnt necessarily a bad thing to do. But she was telling me I was WRONG to separate them and to put them back in the big cage. 

I will definitely post lots and lots of pictures. I will probably post a pic tonight of Mammie's belly so you guys can see where she is at.


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## kenzierey

My big problem right now is that I separated them a week ago (which I feel horrible about cause they have both been alone for a week now cause I thought they were gonna pop a while ago). And I have only cleaned their cages just a little bit because I didn't want to disturb them. I don't know If I should clean the cages or leave them alone. I don't want to upset them or change anything this late in the pregnancy... But I really don't know where they are at in the pregnancy... I also havent taken Mammie out very much because her stomach is giant and I no longer want to handle her because I am afraid of hurting the babies in her belly. I just really wish I knew their due date...I am so stressed out with them. I am constantly checking on them all the time to see if there is babies. Even in the middle of the night I wake up like 6 times and check. I feel like an idiot because I have been doing this for a week now. haha


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## Isamurat

I continue handling mums right up to there last day. I tend to let them choose the level of interaction so if they dlnt want to come out then I leave them, but if they do they can have free range. Id let the girls play together too if you cant let them live together. Also try and relax, rat mums generally do a good job, theres little you can do to help however if you get stressed they will pick up on it and be more stressed in turn.


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## kenzierey

Isamurat said:


> I continue handling mums right up to there last day. I tend to let them choose the level of interaction so if they dlnt want to come out then I leave them, but if they do they can have free range. Id let the girls play together too if you cant let them live together. Also try and relax, rat mums generally do a good job, theres little you can do to help however if you get stressed they will pick up on it and be more stressed in turn.


I took them out today and let them play for a while. I feel so bad it's only their 3rd time playing in a week. And one of the times was super short.

I know I really have to stop worrying about it so much. I think a lot of my worrying comes from what I read in this section of the forum. I read too much about things going wrong and all the megacolon stuff. A lot of negative things having to do with pregnancy. There is hardly anything positive in this section. Haha

I tried to get a couple pictures of Mam's belly but I did a horrific job. I couldn't really get my camera to show just how huge she really is.

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Oh my god those pictures are so bad! Sorry lol



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## Kinsey

It might be a good idea to clean as much as you can now. Just don't disturb her nest too much. Because once the babies come you will probably want to not mess with the cage too much until they are a bit older- you can hold them but the nest and cage are very important to mum.

She looks pretty big. It's going to be soon I think.


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## kenzierey

Kinsey said:


> It might be a good idea to clean as much as you can now. Just don't disturb her nest too much. Because once the babies come you will probably want to not mess with the cage too much until they are a bit older- you can hold them but the nest and cage are very important to mum.
> 
> She looks pretty big. It's going to be soon I think.


I really hope so!! I can't take it anymore, I'm so excited!! 

And I already have a bunch of homes lined up which I am super happy about. Everyone who doesn't already have rats has to take a pair. And I kind of wanted to print some little information packets to give to everyone adopting a baby cause I know so many people adopt pets and do zero research about them. I am hoping they will at least read some basic information about them, especially if it is printed and already in their hands.


----------



## Kinsey

It is important to vet the homes out, but it sounds like you've got the right idea. I would print info and tell them to join this site so they can ask for help if they need it.

I'm excited for you too. Babies are so cute. I sometimes go and look at them at the pet store because I love them so much- little tiny sausages that squeak. <3


----------



## Flying-Dumbo-Rat

Finally, somebody else in Massachusetts...

Anywho, I hope it works out well! Babies are always cute--although so much work. Once my sister's rat had babies, and I can say, it was rewarding yet terrible at the same time. I really, really hope you have a great time with your babies when they come.
Mama is also a cutie, too.


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## kenzierey

Kinsey said:


> It might be a good idea to clean as much as you can now. Just don't disturb her nest too much. Because once the babies come you will probably want to not mess with the cage too much until they are a bit older- you can hold them but the nest and cage are very important to mum.
> 
> She looks pretty big. It's going to be soon I think.


I cleaned around the nest and stuff but just noticed that there is pee and poop on the paper towels I gave her. Should I switch all that stuff out and give her new paper towels and nesting materials or will she be upset that I ruined her nest this late in the pregnancy?


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## Kinsey

Give her some more paper, and if you can spot clean without destroying the nest then do- but if you'll have to dismantle it, don't bug it. It's too far along I think and might upset her.


----------



## kenzierey

Kinsey said:


> Give her some more paper, and if you can spot clean without destroying the nest then do- but if you'll have to dismantle it, don't bug it. It's too far along I think and might upset her.


Ok good that's what I did. I couldn't really spot clean but I gave her a bunch more paper towel and she made a whole other layer on top so it's all clean on top! And then I spot cleaned bedding as best as possible more and added more clean bedding on top. 

I'm reading more and more on this section of the forum and I feel like I should pick up some kitten formula to have on hand just in case. Is this something I could get a petco? Would most pet shops carry this? I'm assuming so. 




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## Kinsey

Yes, most will. If I were you, and this is personal preference, I would order formula from these guys as opposed to getting KMR. If you were to look up the actual values of rat milk you could likely find a very close match here.
http://www.foxvalleynutrition.com/product-lines/milkreplacers/

This is my personal thing of course- but I rescue squirrels and Fox Valley is the squirrel milk king.


----------



## nanashi7

pet shops will carry it, and you can use soy milk for human babies.

Also read ratguide, ratfan club and maybe ratcyclopedia.


----------



## kenzierey

K thanks guys I will look into getting stuff today.

I can't take this anymore though I just want the babies!!


----------



## nanashi7

If she did it the day before you picked them up, it should be no later than the fourth. No signs of heat? Sometimes the move can stress a doe into reabsorbing her litter.


----------



## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> If she did it the day before you picked them up, it should be no later than the fourth. No signs of heat? Sometimes the move can stress a doe into reabsorbing her litter.


No signs of heat that I could see. And both are still nesting. Squirrels belly seems to be getting bigger still so I'm thinking maybe they still have a little while to go and Mammie just got big really fast? Idk though 

Mammie was doing something weird last night. She was jumping really hard into the lid of the tank. It made me nervous cause I feel like she can really hurt her babies doing that. I was thinking it's cause she is bored and lonely? So I let them both free range for a while and she went to sleep after. But do you think that's why she was doing this? Is that a normal behavior? 


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## nanashi7

My girl did it when she was bored, lonely, and when she was close to birth which could be good new to you or bad news; because later, she achieved her aim and while I was neutering Remus escaped and made a new nest under a very very heavy book shelf with half her kits (she was in the process of moving the rest of them when I cam home and noticed she was gone).


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> My girl did it when she was bored, lonely, and when she was close to birth which could be good new to you or bad news; because later, she achieved her aim and while I was neutering Remus escaped and made a new nest under a very very heavy book shelf with half her kits (she was in the process of moving the rest of them when I cam home and noticed she was gone).


HAHA! That's hilarious and also scary at the same time! Oh boy I hope she doesn't get out. Lol


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## nanashi7

I'd weigh it down and not take the chance. My girl was not stressed, aggressive, or protective but the urge still caught her. It took us nearly an hour to get to the babies -- we had to remove ever piece of furniture to find them, and then every book from the bookshelf and lift it straight up so as not to endanger the kits.


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> I'd weigh it down and not take the chance. My girl was not stressed, aggressive, or protective but the urge still caught her. It took us nearly an hour to get to the babies -- we had to remove ever piece of furniture to find them, and then every book from the bookshelf and lift it straight up so as not to endanger the kits.


Oh no that's horrible! That must have been terrifying. I will put something on top of it as soon as I get home!! Thanks for the warning. Sounds like you've been through it all!


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## kenzierey

No babies still. Mammie made a new nest last night under an igloo I gave her which I'm happy about cause the box she had was getting nasty. And my little squirrel just ripped everything in her nest to shreds and destroyed it. Haha I am thinking at this point squirrel is not pregnant which would be a big relief.



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## kenzierey

She had the babies. It seems like she is eating some of them! What do I do?!? I lured her away with treats I don't know what to do


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## nanashi7

Leave her alone. 

If she is eating them, it is due to stress or them being sickly. 

You can try to hand raise them but most don't make it without mom. 


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> Leave her alone.
> 
> If she is eating them, it is due to stress or them being sickly.
> 
> You can try to hand raise them but most don't make it without mom.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Ok that's what I'm doing. There are still lots of babies alive and chirping like crazy. She keeps digging underneath them and ripping her nest apart and she just seems confused. But I left her be. I am really hoping they survive. They are so cute already.


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## nanashi7

She might be trying to cover them either to keep them warm or to hide them. 


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> She might be trying to cover them either to keep them warm or to hide them.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Ok I just hope she is a good mama. She came out and said hi to us and took treats and seemed very hungry. But do their bellies deflate a good amount as soon as their out? Cause her sides are still completely bulging and don't look any less deflated. Could she possibly have more to pop out? Would she ever be able to take a break from labor for a second to eat and then continue? That seems unlikely but I'm just curious. It's probably a very stupid question. Haha


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## nanashi7

If you disturbed her, she could very well halt and continue. However, if she is trying to continue and failing and it has been ten minutes she needs to go to the vet NOW. their bellies do deflate From golf ball to normal or tubby. 

If she isn't stressed, are you sure she wasn't cleaning the babies?


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> If you disturbed her, she could very well halt and continue. However, if she is trying to continue and failing and it has been ten minutes she needs to go to the vet NOW. their bellies do deflate From golf ball to normal or tubby.
> 
> If she isn't stressed, are you sure she wasn't cleaning the babies?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I'm not sure If she was cleaning or eating but there is just large amounts of blood and there were big pink chunks. 




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## kenzierey

Should I always be hearing chirping or could silence mean they are nursing? 


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## nanashi7

It could be birthing remnants. They can't eep while nursing but may just about every other minute for the next week or two. 


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## hybanana

This might be a really weird question...but did you have an add up on CL? Cuz I swear I've seen that pic...I'm from Worcester ma and I almost inquired about those babies!!

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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> It could be birthing remnants. They can't eep while nursing but may just about every other minute for the next week or two.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Ok I'm hearing chirps like every minute or so actually. And then when moves around they chirp like crazy


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## kenzierey

hybanana said:


> This might be a really weird question...but did you have an add up on CL? Cuz I swear I've seen that pic...I'm from Worcester ma and I almost inquired about those babies!!
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yeah lol. In the western ma section though not Worcester 


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## hybanana

Oh awesome! 

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## kenzierey

hybanana said:


> Oh awesome!
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yeah well depending on how this goes, and how many babies survive I could keep you updated on the pictures and everything (though I will probably do that on here anyway lol). And you could let me know if you're interested. Id be happy to let these babies go to people on this forum who actually make an effort to learn as much as they can about their rats. 


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## kenzierey

Now I haven't heard chirping for like 6 minutes


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## kenzierey

How long should I give her until I put more food in there and check on her? I want to feed her some more eggs for protein. 


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## nanashi7

She's in a tank right? Just peek and see what she is doing. 

I'll admit to bothering my girlie. She'd walk off nursing them and they'd cling on leaving a pinkie trail. I always felt awful lol. 

If she is comfortable, you can feed her in her nest. I did to keep mama on them and from walking off and for our bond. If she's not, put it nearby. 

My girl had thirteen rats for a first litter and still did everything right; split her nest, groomed, fed. Her downsides were nesting with her toy (ferret ball bigger than pinkies kept putting atop them) and walking off cause of me. Otherwise, they were warm and fed. 


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## kenzierey

Seems she is doing good now. She has been lying on her babies for a while so I'm assuming she is nursing I only hear chirps every once in a while though and I don't hear as many as I did at first. My dilemma is that her nest is under an igloo and I can't really see in? Should I lift it slightly to check? And yes she is in a tank.


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## nanashi7

That's why I usually advise covering the enclosure with a blanket mostly and offering no hides, but plenty of bedding for her to make nests and burrows. It's dangerous to reach your hand in to a nursing does hide, so do be careful. 


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> That's why I usually advise covering the enclosure with a blanket mostly and offering no hides, but plenty of bedding for her to make nests and burrows. It's dangerous to reach your hand in to a nursing does hide, so do be careful.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yeah I screwed that up.. Didn't realize they really shouldn't have hides until she had already made her nest in it so I was scared to take it out


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## nanashi7

Actually, every guide out there recommends hides. But it seems impractical to me after I went through it. 


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> Actually, every guide out there recommends hides. But it seems impractical to me after I went through it.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yes seems very impractical! Just checked on them. Mamas being a sweetheart and babies have milk bands. I can't see them all but I can't count 6. She's lying on them though 


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## nanashi7

What I did was to lure mom away and snap a picture. Use the picture to count. 

Six would be quite a stroke of luck especially if most were girls. 


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## nanashi7

If you take the hide out, do make sure to cover the cage. It'll keep in warmth like a hide and provide darkness for security. 


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> If you take the hide out, do make sure to cover the cage. It'll keep in warmth like a hide and provide darkness for security.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yeah I think there's probably much more than that. I could only see a little bit into the hide. Do you recommend I do take it out? Or just leave it in there and deal with it.




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## kenzierey

Also there is one dead baby. When should I remove it? She's on top of them right now feeding them I think


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## Korra

I have never had a bitty rescue mom. So I am always able to just reach under them and get the babies. Or I am able to gently pull her off and do what I have to.


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## nanashi7

Are you sure it is dead? You can remove it. Normally, she'd eat it to get back nutrients now wasted. 

It's up to you about removing it. In two weeks time they'll need a wire cage with all the knickknacks so will get it back. 


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> Are you sure it is dead? You can remove it. Normally, she'd eat it to get back nutrients now wasted.
> 
> It's up to you about removing it. In two weeks time they'll need a wire cage with all the knickknacks so will get it back.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yeah positive. It hasn't moved and it's a pale pale gray and it's also a lot bigger than the others were 

I tried removing the hide and she seemed a little freaked out so I just put it back


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## kenzierey

Mama wanted to come out and play with me for a little so I let her run around for 5 minutes while we did a count and checked on them. She ate most of the dead one already so we just took it out. But 8 healthy wiggly little beans and I am so proud of mama. Especially being so young and moving homes during pregnancy she is being so great. And so friendly towards both me and my boyfriend. She's so cute! 
I'm trying to post a pic of the babes but it won't let me... Says error uploading you've exceeded your quota, whatever that means...



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## nanashi7

You've uploaded too many pictures and need to delete older ones from your desktop. Or use an image hosting sight like imgur or flickr 


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> You've uploaded too many pictures and need to delete older ones from your desktop. Or use an image hosting sight like imgur or flickr
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thanks. I swear I've barely posted any haha.

https://m.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/13528525635/lightbox/


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## Kinsey

Congrats on the bubs. 

I know you must be nervous- try to let momma do her job. Check for milk bands. I would leave the hide there for warmth and security.

So exciting!


----------



## Hey-Fay

My goodness! What lovely little jelly beans you've got there! I remember when Lilly had her pups, the first born didn't make it; I tried to bring him back, rubbed him like you would a puppy or kitten if they came out not breathing but it didn't work, the poor dear. He's buried beside his dad.
I hope you can adopt them all out!! Keep us posted with progress pictures!


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## kenzierey

Hey-Fay said:


> My goodness! What lovely little jelly beans you've got there! I remember when Lilly had her pups, the first born didn't make it; I tried to bring him back, rubbed him like you would a puppy or kitten if they came out not breathing but it didn't work, the poor dear. He's buried beside his dad.
> I hope you can adopt them all out!! Keep us posted with progress pictures!


I absolutely will keep you updated!! 

I am actually keeping some of them. Idk how many yet. But I have more homes lined up than babies so I think It will work out great! 


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## kenzierey

Kinsey said:


> Congrats on the bubs.
> 
> I know you must be nervous- try to let momma do her job. Check for milk bands. I would leave the hide there for warmth and security.
> 
> So exciting!


Thank you I am beyond excited! And I think I handled it better than I thought. I have a slight phobia of dead animals, especially small dead animals so I was really nervous about the babies dying. But I was able to handle it and look at it with ease. Even the chunks and remnants of the dead one she ate. I am actually really proud of myself. Even if it's one of my beloved adult rats who passes, I can't look. It's really bad and I feel so bad but I can't see or touch them at all or it affects me really badly for a long long time afterwords. So my boyfriend has to take care of all that stuff! But the healthy babies were just so amazing and beautiful and it was such an awesome experience I could put all the gross stuff to the back of my mind... All babies have has milkbands every time I checked and things seem to be going great so far. Couldn't be happier


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## kenzierey

I've got a question on handling the babies. When does everyone think is the best time to start handling. I know there are lots of different opinions out there and it depends on how mama will react but I would just like to know other people's opinions on this. I really don't see much need to handle them for the first few days or even a week. I know by the second week you should handle them every day to get them used to it. But do you guys pick up the new borns? Have you ever had a mother react badly to you touching them? Mammie is being super sweet towards me and is being very trusting when I go near the babies but I know that could change because she is a hormonal mom.


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## nanashi7

I held them the mornin after. Mom was fine with it, took them back from me. I'd also do it while she free ranged for twenty minute. No more than a min or two per baby until they get fur. 


I'd check health milk warmth and for deformities. 


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> I held them the mornin after. Mom was fine with it, took them back from me. I'd also do it while she free ranged for twenty minute. No more than a min or two per baby until they get fur.
> 
> 
> I'd check health milk warmth and for deformities.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Milk warmth? Like touch their milk bands and see if its warm? lol sorry if i sound stupid. hahahh


----------



## kenzierey

or are you saying check milk and make sure they are warm? hahahahha thats probably it.


----------



## nanashi7

Yeah the latter. I'd use commas but this phone irritates me. 


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> Yeah the latter. I'd use commas but this phone irritates me.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Lol. No worries I should have read a little slower. That's the blonde in me. Just picked a couple up and felt them all... They are so warm. Like I wasn't expecting that for some reason. That was such an amazing experience holding them. I didn't think it would be like that at all. This is so cool haha


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## Isamurat

I handle them enough to count and check them over for milk bands when mum is happy to come off the nest (normally a few hours after birthing). I tempt her to the door, pop her in a carrier with some tasty food then rub my hands in her bedding first before giving each baby a quick check and counting how many they are. At this point i tend to leave any dead babies for mum to deal with. If mum is stressed i wont do this until shes ready for it.

The next day assuming she's happy and settled i again tempt her out. If she comes willingly again she gets a nice meal in the carrier and i count them again, removing any dead babies mum hasnt cleaned up. I will normally sex them at this stage, just to get a feel for what we've got. Its a quick job when your used to it. Then she gets to come back in.

I carry on handling them every day, mainly as a check over, though after a few days i tend to "ear" them (we have dumbo in our lines) and would also check for rex if there was any possibilities of that (not a chance unless recessive rex has been hiding for many many generations with mine lol). At this point handling is mainly for my benefit and making sure they are growing well, no one has any issues etc. After the first day or two i tend to pop mum back in with her cagemates whilst i handle them (max for a few mins at first, increasing as they get fuzz through) which she normally enjoys. If she seems happy with this then i might move it to twice daily, again its more about her choices in this, most relaxed mums love a few mins with there friends. In that time the babies are either in the nest, or being kept warm on a heat pad in a fleecey cup with me. I normally take daily photos at this age as growth is so fast. 

During the second week they begin to realise you exist, this is when handling becomes important, they often nuzzel you, try and suckle and wobble around and such, they may not have eyes but they are learning you in their own way and it is very sweet and formative. This is a nice time as they also should have a fair covering of short fuzzy fur so are able to be away from mum for longer without getting too cold. Again mum stays with her friends whilst we get to know each other for a while and i get them out for up to about 15-20 mins (i play it by mums desire to be back and how warm the babies feel). Towards 10-14 days there eyes start to open and they really begin to explore. Around about then i mark there tails (my last litter had 11 identical agouti babies in it lol) and start making notes about personalities, growth rates etc. They get weighed in regularly too and we spend about 30 mins a session together. Normally around this week i see if mum is happy to be out with them on me and from then on we do joint cuddle sessions. So far i've been very lucky, my mums have trusted me enough to nurse on my knee with there full family, its a lovely feeling.

And just because, here's a little one around about 1 week old...


----------



## kenzierey

Isamurat said:


> I handle them enough to count and check them over for milk bands when mum is happy to come off the nest (normally a few hours after birthing). I tempt her to the door, pop her in a carrier with some tasty food then rub my hands in her bedding first before giving each baby a quick check and counting how many they are. At this point i tend to leave any dead babies for mum to deal with. If mum is stressed i wont do this until shes ready for it.
> 
> The next day assuming she's happy and settled i again tempt her out. If she comes willingly again she gets a nice meal in the carrier and i count them again, removing any dead babies mum hasnt cleaned up. I will normally sex them at this stage, just to get a feel for what we've got. Its a quick job when your used to it. Then she gets to come back in.
> 
> I carry on handling them every day, mainly as a check over, though after a few days i tend to "ear" them (we have dumbo in our lines) and would also check for rex if there was any possibilities of that (not a chance unless recessive rex has been hiding for many many generations with mine lol). At this point handling is mainly for my benefit and making sure they are growing well, no one has any issues etc. After the first day or two i tend to pop mum back in with her cagemates whilst i handle them (max for a few mins at first, increasing as they get fuzz through) which she normally enjoys. If she seems happy with this then i might move it to twice daily, again its more about her choices in this, most relaxed mums love a few mins with there friends. In that time the babies are either in the nest, or being kept warm on a heat pad in a fleecey cup with me. I normally take daily photos at this age as growth is so fast.
> 
> During the second week they begin to realise you exist, this is when handling becomes important, they often nuzzel you, try and suckle and wobble around and such, they may not have eyes but they are learning you in their own way and it is very sweet and formative. This is a nice time as they also should have a fair covering of short fuzzy fur so are able to be away from mum for longer without getting too cold. Again mum stays with her friends whilst we get to know each other for a while and i get them out for up to about 15-20 mins (i play it by mums desire to be back and how warm the babies feel). Towards 10-14 days there eyes start to open and they really begin to explore. Around about then i mark there tails (my last litter had 11 identical agouti babies in it lol) and start making notes about personalities, growth rates etc. They get weighed in regularly too and we spend about 30 mins a session together. Normally around this week i see if mum is happy to be out with them on me and from then on we do joint cuddle sessions. So far i've been very lucky, my mums have trusted me enough to nurse on my knee with there full family, its a lovely feeling.
> 
> And just because, here's a little one around about 1 week old...



Wow, awesome. Thanks Isamurat. That was really informative. I like soaking in as much info as possible cause I know nothing about this stuff. You and nanashi have been a great help through all of this and I can't thank you guys enough. I have had so many questions and concerns and you both have answered them all! That's why I love this forum.

I want to give sexing a try but It is slightl difficult for me. Its so easy to see in pics when they are telling you female or male but not so much for me in real life. I will let you know how I do haha. Maybe ill take some pics so you guys can help me. 

I CANNOT wait until their fuzz starts coming in. I am so excited
And can I just say that is such a cute little babe!! Oh my gosh! Adorableee. I love baby pics.


----------



## Isamurat

Sexing becomes easy once you have a few different too each other. The difference is quite obvious in terms of the gap between anus and lump, plus in agouti based rats the boys convientiantly get 2 little black dots very early on lol. I tend to do it by sorting them into 2 piles of similar looking rats and often have a sexing guide like this one http://ratz.co.uk/sexingrats.html up on my phone. I do it a couple times in the first week, then again after a week old just to confirm i'm not going mad. 

Your next exciting step is when the pigment comes through in the next day or so. You should also be able to tell eye colour at this age unless they are very dark ruby as this looks very much like black.


----------



## kenzierey

Isamurat said:


> Sexing becomes easy once you have a few different too each other. The difference is quite obvious in terms of the gap between anus and lump, plus in agouti based rats the boys convientiantly get 2 little black dots very early on lol. I tend to do it by sorting them into 2 piles of similar looking rats and often have a sexing guide like this one http://ratz.co.uk/sexingrats.html up on my phone. I do it a couple times in the first week, then again after a week old just to confirm i'm not going mad.
> 
> Your next exciting step is when the pigment comes through in the next day or so. You should also be able to tell eye colour at this age unless they are very dark ruby as this looks very much like black.


Thanks that looks like a really good sexing reference! I will try to do it tonight! Can't wait for pigment! Eek!! And so far all of their eyes are super super dark compared to the rest of their body... Idk if it's like that with all rats in the first day though! 

Also I read that they are born with their whiskers and you can tell if they are Rex immediately but I don't see any whiskers at all!!


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## Hey-Fay

I held Lilly's babies twenty four hours after birth and continued to handle them everyday for a few minutes at a time once their eyes opened they were handled much much longer. I made sure that they were socialized.


----------



## kenzierey

Hey-Fay said:


> I held Lilly's babies twenty four hours after birth and continued to handle them everyday for a few minutes at a time once their eyes opened they were handled much much longer. I made sure that they were socialized.


Thanks Hey-Fay .. I have held them twice now for a very short time. And not even all of them. But I just love it. Its like the best part of the day now holding those warm little beans!! So stinkin cute!! I have been checking for deformities and milk bands and tried sexing a couple but not really. I will try harder later... So far I think I saw 3 females 2 males...but didnt check the other 3. I will take another picture later today their markings are very lightly showing. 

Noticed that some of them have a little poo in/on their bums and I think mom is supposed to clean that right?? How long after feeding does she normally clean them??...I noticed most of them were clean but just like 2 had a little poo in them. I checked them like 2 minutes after feeding though so she probably hadnt gotten to that yet? IDK i know nothing about the nursing/cleaning process that mum does.


Also just a little update on squirrel... Her belly is still very very small in comparison to what Mammies looked like but her nipples are popping out like crazy now and she does have a (very) slight belly...Could just be that she is actually getting a lot of food in her though cause when I got her she was just a spine with some skin on it. But could she possibly not show very much?..Like if its a small litter or something? I know so many people have no idea that their females are pregnant so does that mean that their bellies never really get that big? And what could the latest date be considering Mammie had her babies on the 30th? I know there is a lot of debate on delayed conception... Is it something that is common at all? I just cant imagine her being in a cage with a male and not getting pregnant.


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## nanashi7

The latest is four days from now.


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> The latest is four days from now.


Ok thats what I was thinking. Do they ever not show a big belly their whole pregnancy? Or I am thinking her belly might get giant the next couple of days and she was just a late developer?? I just hate not knowing. Maybe I'll try to get some pictures later and see what you guys think. Some days I am like OK she is definitely not pregnant. And then the next I will look and she will look it and I am like ok she definitely is. Im gonna go nuts!


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## nanashi7

Mine didn't show until four days before. She was a bit chubby, maybe. Then BWOMP. She was huge.


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## kenzierey

nanashi7 said:


> Mine didn't show until four days before. She was a bit chubby, maybe. Then BWOMP. She was huge.


Hahaha. Ok thinking that may happen with squirrel..


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## RadiantRatties

Man I was just reading this and I really wanna know if Squirrel had her babies lol. 


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