# Delicate subject - would GREATLY appreciate advice



## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

Hello all - before I get into the subject of this posting, Id lke to say that I am enjoying myself on your forum! Everyone is so nice and I feel that Ive gotten a lot of good information...which I am grateful for! For example, I had a FLEETING thought about 'wouldnt it be sweet to have babies...'. Your site has taught me that for me to breed a rat would NOT be sweet, it would be irresponsible. As a result, I have appts for half my ratties to be neutered in 2 weeks and the other half, 2 weeks after that. Thank you for the good information that saved me from making a selfish choice and possibly/probably propagating more of an already too prevelant problem.
To be honest, Im sort of ashamed to admit the above - Im not a child, and I am not ignorant - you would think I could have figured it out on my own, but I didnt...Im just grateful that the information was here for me to access so I didnt make a horrible decision.

But I digress....

I have a situation that is extremely delicate - advice would be so appreciated.

First off, I swear that the following information is relevant. My 18 year old daughter gave me my first rat just a few weeks ago (I mentioned this in my very 1st post. My 18 year odl daughter is emotionally slow - about 4 years behind her age (issue from birth). I became ill with a heart problem about a year ago when she started going through the NOT fun teenage angst, and between my illness and her distaste for my rules, it was decided that it was better fior her to live with her father for a while. During this time she has bought several pocket pets. I keep begging her to stop because I truly do not believe that she is caring for them properly. I have asked her father to put a stop to it, but he just looks at me and responds with something like, 'they are JUST rodents; get over it'. GRRR

Her latest purchase has been ratties. She adopted 2 from petsmart and bought 2. I took one girl from her before the poor thing got pregnant because I could just see her not keeping them seperated. Then I got a look at how she is keeping these animals. (the 2 she has left - remember, I already have 2 of them at my house now, thank god). The cage is too small. THere are no toys - nothing fun for these babies to do. They are getting restless and aggresive. I dont know as much about rats as ya'll do here, but I know enough about life to know that this isnt good! I talked her into bringing one over to the house and letting me 'keep him for a while'. He was in a hamster cage. no toys, little bedding, and I think he is thin. He wouldnt socialize and just shuddered in his cage. This was yesterday morning. I wiped him down wiht warm rags whicvh he loved...he just relaxed in my hand. Then I got him another cage with ample bedding, toys and lots of stuff to entertain him. Just in one day, he is coming out to crawl into my hand and roll around. He LOVES the fresh fruits and veggies that Ive added to his diet and he is playing, cuddling, etc. Just in ONE day. 

She still has one at the house. I KNOW its not being cared for adequately. I know she has good intentions, but its not enough. Actually, I guess I dont need advice - I love my child and dont want her to have hurt feelings because I know in HER mind, she LOVES these babies, but I cant allow what is obviously neglegence occur. That would be even worse.
I know what I need to do...I just need to figure out the best way to do it, I guess. And I need to figure it out FAST - I dont want the last rattie to get hurt, ill, or suffer any negative effects from what I believe is flat out negligence on her part. (that really stings to know Ive raised a child to near adulthood -slow or not - that could neglect an animal...UGH)  
OK, so I know what I need to do - any advice on HOW to do it? I can continue taking her rats until I have a jillion here and it wont matter because Im afraid she will continue buying/adopting more. Is there a way to get these places to STOP selling her the animals? Does anyone have ANY kind of advice?

Thanks.

PS
I know that I mentioned Im ill with heart issues. I have arrangements made for my rats should I get sick or if I have to be hospitalized and even made back up arrangements for my back ups. (I just didnt want anyone to worry that my ratties would be neglected if I became ill again) Actually, I swear it is because of THEM That i feel better! LOL!!! YAY RATS!


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## cashewsmama (Aug 10, 2007)

don't be too ashamed about having the "idea" of having babies, its when people go as far as to not really think things through and just do it. im sure that all of us at one point in time thought id be cute to have some babies, though most have not actually gone through with it.

that is wonderful that you rescued the little fellow  . its amazing how forgiving and kind pets will be.

I do not have any human children myself, so i really wish i can help you on this issue  . i can definitely see the potential problems though. the board members here are so great, im sure one of them will be much better suited to help you than me.


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

Thanks...I tried to talk to one of my 'friends' about this, and they were horrified that I would chance hurting my child's feelings for 'just a rat'. I have ended an 8 year friendship after 2 hours of TRYING to explain to her that wheras my 18 year old child can understand the reasoning for something eventually, that the 'just a rat' cannot, and that makes it even more cruel. To let an animal suffer and it cant understand WHY it is suffering is beyond cruel. 

My ex-friend thinks Im being a 'bad parent'. Personally, I think that Id be a bad parent if I let my daughter get away wtih such deplorable behaviour towards an animal, whether she realizes it or not.

Still, it IS a delicate situation. I dont want the rat to suffer - which is why Ive taken 3 of hers away to now live with me at my house. To be honest, Im kind of scared of the rat that she has left...but still, I dont want him to suffer neglect. And there just HAS to be a way to get the places to stop selling to her??? Maybe?

Anyway, thank you for the reply. Thats one thing I love about this place. You never have to wait long for a response!


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## Pomperella (Jun 4, 2007)

Could you show your daughter how you keep the rats at your house? such as the correct cage, toys and bedding. Also, show her how happy the rats are and ask if she thinks they seem happier. ask her why the rats are happier and if she gives you the answer you will know at least that she can understand how to treat them. Maybe you should tell her the other one will be lonely so should come and stay with the others and that she can come and see them and play with them when she wants. You could tell her it will be nicer for her to have them with you as she won't have to clean them and feed them, but just do the fun stuff. you could tell her that you don't want to burden her with it? 

i'm not really sure, these are just a few suggestions. good luck to you though, and let us know how you get on x


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

Thank you. That DOES seem like a good idea...
I feel kind of dumb for not thinking of it myself, its pretty straightforward.
I guess its just that its an emotionally charged issue for me since its my own child and also since I feel so strongly about how ppl care for their animals and how crucial it is to do so properly.

I have invited her over for the weekend, and will try that.


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

I will most definately be posting whenever we are able to get her last rat from her. I want to do right by him, but just to be really honest, he frightens me somewhat.

He's huge and nippy and he looks nothing like any of my ratties. He looks like a sewer rat in the movies. She got him from a petco and they said he was a surrendered rat from ppl that had to move and couldnt take him.

I hate to admit that Im frightened of him, but Id hate more NOT admitting it and not doing the best things for him and so forth.


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## Pomperella (Jun 4, 2007)

sorry i just went to post my reply and it deleted itself!

i am finishing work now and going away for the weekend so can't get on line til monday possibly. i hope it all goes okay, and don't feel bad for not thinking of a suggestion, as you say it's hard to when you are in the situation.

good luck, also, there are lots of tips here on how to tame a rat x


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

You could tell her that you want to take the other rat to work on his aggression issues, that you are getting advice about how to do that and that his "brother" is lonely without him.

In the meantime, if she has any free time, maybe take a look around your area and see if there are any rescues that need volunteers. You can sell the idea to her as she can see/handle all the animals she wants with a "job" like that. At least then she would have someone to supervise her animal interaction time and teach her right from wrong on looking after animals (not that you can't, but some kids will listen to strangers better than their own parents).

As for being scared of the remaining rat... it's good to be cautious, but do remember that rats can sense your fear, so you could be making him worse by making him uneasy. Try to be confident in handling him... give him some space to come around, too, and with lots of love and consistency, 9 times out of 10 you can turn a bitey unhappy rat into a happy healthy loving little fuzzball.

I wish you all the luck in the world with this. Please do keep us posted.


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

That's a good idea too. Heck, Id like to volunteer myself! 

Im looking around my room realizing that my one male rattie has expanded into 4 male ratties and 3 females. Ive got the fever, I think

LOL!


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

DFW_Rat_Luvr said:


> That's a good idea too. Heck, Id like to volunteer myself!
> 
> Im looking around my room realizing that my one male rattie has expanded into 4 male ratties and 3 females. Ive got the fever, I think
> 
> LOL!


I volunteer for a wildlife rescue and it is very rewarding work. Not to mention I get to coo over any number of animals/birds that you wouldn't usually be able to get close to. Maybe it's something you can do together, then?

It sounds to me like you have GGMR Syndrome!  Remember to save some space for any future confiscations, though :? (I really hope you don't have to confiscate any more!)


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

me too. Well its time for the morningtime skrtich hour - adn Id better not be late or I will have some angry ratties!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Well it sounds like you knew what to do deep down, but just needed to write it down and get it out. You have gotten some very good advice on here, and your ex-friend is totally wrong. I took in an old female rat who had been badly neglected. The younger sister snuck her out to me, since her parents (her dad was a vet!) were letting an emotionally disturbed young woman (aggression issues) neglect and kill many small animals to "keep her happy". The little ratgirl's sister died horribly and the younger brave sister incurred the wrath of her parents and got her to me. Gwinny only lived a week more but you could tell she was very very happy. I am soo proud of you for doing what you know is the right thing as a parent and not listening to others who know "what's best for you".

The big agouti (wild brown colouring) might take a bit longer to come around but I am sure he will sense your love and the change in his situation.

((Hugs)) Very very proud of you!!!


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

I would get that big agouti neutered as well. That does wonders for biting issues.

I agree with the just showing her how they are being taken care of now, how well they are behaving now that they are being taken care of, etc. You can try to give a picture of her to the petshops and explain the situation and hope they won't allow her to buy anymore animals. Some might, some might just ignore you.

In my opinion, even if these are 'just a rat' to your ex husband allowing an emotionally slow child to neglect anything is going to be bad for her emotional growth. Whenever one dies, she will beat herself up for it inside. That or she will just shrug it off teaching her that taking care of her responsibilities don't matter at all. I would explain it in that terms to your ex. Tell him she is better off without them as she isn't being taught that doing horrible things to what she is responsible for is alright. Taking them away when she is NOT being responsible is teaching her to take responsibility to her actions. It's also good for her to see how much better and more fun they are when they ARE being taken care of.

Your husband should be waay more responsible and realize this isn't a good thing to do with his child. That or if he lets her have them, he should be the one taking care of them properly.

If he thinks she needs animals to take care of, perhaps they should get something easier to take care of like a cat. Or again, I agree with the getting a job at a shelter or other animal care place to learn how to treat the animals.


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

exhusband, EX! Not husband, My husband feels as strongly about this as I do. As far as my ex-husband goes, its not that he feels she SHOULD have animals to raise, he just doesnt want to deal with telling her no about this situation since in HIS words, 'they are just rats, and rats, lke gerbils, hamsters and mice are disposable pets'. I could have slapped him when he said that. ABSOLUTELY slapped him.

We've decided to go get the ratty today after talking to her. I feel way more confident about what to say and how to say it after receiving so many wonderful responses - thank you everyone! Especially because you all do not know me, or her, I feel that the advice Ive gotten here today is completely on the mark...simply because it is advice for the issue plain and simple and isnt confused by personally knowing me or my child.

Thank you again everyone!


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## chrisstrikeagain (Apr 10, 2007)

You have great intentions and seem very wise. Thank you for makin sure your daughter's rats get proper care. And having arrangements for your rats shows your responsible. 

Keep us updated!


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

Sorry, I meant to type ex husband and have in a couple sentences, just slipped I geuss *blush*


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

I just found out that my husband (not the yicky ex!) is lurking.

Maybe he will post!


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## taralyncouture (Aug 23, 2007)

Being a daughter. I know what you're going through from another point of veiw. I have basicaly raised my mother she has had a 20 year old drug addiction taht she has now left in the past. I have seen her go through a lot. But one thing i admired her for was letting me live with my grandparents because she couldnt give me the life i needed at the time and was if she had an animal at the time that she couldnt take care of she wouldnt say "I love this animal to much to let it go" but "I love this animal to much to let it live this way." She had to give her dog to a rescue because she didnt have a stable place to live. and that dog was the best thing to happen to her but she knew it wasnt good for aiko.
So i think you should explain to your daughter she still has her ratties so she doesnt need anymore. and for you to get the last rat. and let her visit as often as desired. but instead get her an animal that needs less mantience like a hermit crab.


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

Poppyseed said:


> Sorry, I meant to type ex husband and have in a couple sentences, just slipped I geuss *blush*


No problem


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

taralyncouture said:


> Being a daughter. I know what you're going through from another point of veiw. I have basicaly raised my mother she has had a 20 year old drug addiction taht she has now left in the past. I have seen her go through a lot. But one thing i admired her for was letting me live with my grandparents because she couldnt give me the life i needed at the time and was if she had an animal at the time that she couldnt take care of she wouldnt say "I love this animal to much to let it go" but "I love this animal to much to let it live this way." She had to give her dog to a rescue because she didnt have a stable place to live. and that dog was the best thing to happen to her but she knew it wasnt good for aiko. So i think you should explain to your daughter she still has her ratties so she doesnt need anymore. and for you to get the last rat. and let her visit as often as desired. but instead get her an animal that needs less mantience like a hermit crab.


Wow, sounds like you had to grow up before you had time to be a kid! 
That's rough. It's difficult enough dealing with this from my child, but I cannot imagine what iit was like BEING the child and dealing with it from a parent. Hats off to you, and I hope you take time to be a kid now, no matter HOW old you are!

Thanks for the response


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

*Potentially wonderful outcome!*

I just spoke to my daughter. We sat down and had a LONG talk. I feel confident that I finally expressed to her that caring for rats is more than a small cage and feeding them. She seemed genuinely upset that she had not been caring for them adequately and wanted to learn the proper way to go about it. So this is what we came up with...

Her father actually offered to get her a cage that is appropriate for her 2 rats BUT she has to pay half of the cost it back (responsibility). Im taking her to petsmart today to get the proper bedding and some toys, etc. Plus I am going to sit down iwth her today and show her how to make some of the things that Ive read about here and on other sites that I know my rats love. ALso, Im helping her put together a rat run for safe free-ranging and am going to show her some games to play with them.

We are letting her have one more chance before taking her pets away to my house HOWEVER, it is on the condition that she educates herself and does everything properly. My ex doesnt live far from me (just a couple of miles), and I am going to be going over there at least once or twice a day to make sure that she is doing what she ought to do.
She has also agreed to neuter the large rat. I am taking her to the vet I used when Nicodemus broke his leg -she is great and very reasonable as well.

As I said, I will be checking on her and them daily at different times everyday; just popping in unannounced...so if anything is not as it should be, I will know immediately. And she is aware that the first time that something is awry, the rats go with me, no questions asked.

I hope Im doing the right thing....


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

I think you are doing the best thing for your daughter and her rats. Some people don't realize what they are doing and need it gently pointed out. You are teaching her responsibility and consequences. The rats should be fine with you popping in and out. 

I hope this all works out for everyone in the end.


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

*Re: Potentially wonderful outcome!*



DFW_Rat_Luvr said:


> I just spoke to my daughter. We sat down and had a LONG talk. I feel confident that I finally expressed to her that caring for rats is more than a small cage and feeding them. She seemed genuinely upset that she had not been caring for them adequately and wanted to learn the proper way to go about it. So this is what we came up with...
> 
> Her father actually offered to get her a cage that is appropriate for her 2 rats BUT she has to pay half of the cost it back (responsibility). Im taking her to petsmart today to get the proper bedding and some toys, etc. Plus I am going to sit down iwth her today and show her how to make some of the things that Ive read about here and on other sites that I know my rats love. ALso, Im helping her put together a rat run for safe free-ranging and am going to show her some games to play with them.
> 
> ...


It all sounds very promising... good luck!


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## Pomperella (Jun 4, 2007)

i agree, a great compromise/solution.

it's great that everyone will be happy this way, keep us updated x


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## chrisstrikeagain (Apr 10, 2007)

That sounds like a good plan. You should feel very acomplished


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

Great parenting *thumbsup* I think things will be just fine. Rats are a TON of work and not many people realize this. I didn't when I first started.


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

Thanks 

So far, so good.

Ive not given back Boo to her yet....I told her to spend the next week really getting to know the rat she has right now (She named it Tiny - he is HUGE; my son calls him Fatty Mc Fat Rat-lol).

I told her to really get to know his personality; his likes, his dislikes, etc..
And THEN, I would bring Boo back to his friend 

I have high hopes for this...we shall see!

THanks again for all the advice, people 

PS
Let me just say here....Ratties are MUCH easier than teenagers :?


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

DFW_Rat_Luvr said:


> I told her to really get to know his personality; his likes, his dislikes, etc..
> And THEN, I would bring Boo back to his friend


Just be a little careful when you reintroduce them... you might have some territorial issues, so it might be worth introducing them on neutral ground at first.


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## tasha (Oct 16, 2006)

What a sweet post! I loved reading this! You are a very brave person and I hope everything works out in your favor. You should be proud of yourself!


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

I try...lol
Being a parent to teenagers is hard. I miss the days of colic and diapers - at least there is one definate 'right' thing to do. With teens, I havent found that 'one definate right thing' yet! Maybe there just isnt one??

Anyway, thanks for the compliment


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## crapola (Feb 12, 2007)

^^ and it doesnt get easier when they hit their 20's either... their buttheadedness just gets worse i think. (they should all be born at 21 and leave home the next day, haha!!)


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

crapola said:


> (they should all be born at 21


That sounds very painful! :lol:


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

crapola said:


> ^^ and it doesnt get easier when they hit their 20's either... their buttheadedness just gets worse i think.



And my day just got WORSE!!!


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

* What I thought was going so well, isnt*

Well, we have all the rats over here now. My daughter came to stay for a few days while her dad was out of town and brought her Rats with her. Daily I had to stay on her about water, clean cage, free range, loving on them etc. She left to go home today - I kept the rats here.

I dont know....I dont know HOW to make the big one (Tiny) happy. Its so **** sad. I cant put her 2 boys in with mine. They get too 'mean' and nippy. And its so sad....you can just TELL that they dont mean to be mean or to be nippy...its like they just dont know HOW to act. Its like they WANT to play and have fun. and they will even run up to me and their little eyes say, 'love me!', but then they nipand run off. Its just heart breaking. 

I want to help re-socialize them (or whatever the correct term would be) But I just dont know how. Any tips, suggestions?

Also on top of her not getting the lesson wiht THESE rats, she brought home a TINY baby from a pet store. I mean TINY. He cant be hardly 4 weeks, if that. He is not quite hairless - he has peach fuzz - what is that? A rex? Or is it a hairless? Btw, Ive taken him from her too.

At this rate, I dont have time to have GGTM fever - she keeps getting more and I keep taking them. Something has got to give here. How the **** can I explain to her that buying a pet is NOT something that should be done to satisfy a WANT within one's self OVER being capable of satfsfying the NEED of that pet? 

I cannot believe that I raised a child like this. I SWEAR I taught her better when she was younger....or at least I thought I did.

ANyway, my focus is these rats right now - not my parenting ability...this is about THEM, not me. Can someone please give me some advice that I might be able to make their little lives better?

Thanks


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

The nipping may be from excitement or playfulness. If they aren't actually biting, it may not be aggression.

Sound like the babes a double rex. Good luck with all of them.


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

Thank you Forensic. Just seeing your avatar always makes me smile! That little one is such a cutie!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Give the nippy ones a chance to settle in. Eeep when they nip you to let them know in rat language that its not acceptable. Do not offer your hands to them if they are nippy. I sit on a couch and when they approach my hands I just move them out of the way.  Once they finally trust you (and from what you describe this will definitely happen) then they will give up on the nipping. It can be a habit just like chewing our nails. 

The baby sounds like a double rex. if he's that young, supplement his regular rat diet with baby cereal, veggies, some proteins (since he needs the extra help), powdered milk formula if you think he is under 4 weeks. I have also fed baby cereal with strawberry boost or ensure, a little olive oil and baby formula for 3 week-ers.

You have very good rat instincts and seem aware of their body language so I am sure you will do just fine.


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

Thank you - Im trying. I do so want to do what I can to make things better for them.


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## Holly (Dec 31, 2006)

It sounds to me as though you are doing a wonderful job with this situation. It's very important to impart to your daughter, if you can, that she should stop ~buying~ more rats, and start really loving and appreciating the ones she has.

Does your daughter keep the rats (when she was keeping them) in a place where they are "hers," but there is someone else around to make sure they get what they need? Sometimes, kids and teens need prodding and reminding: "Did you visit your rats today?" (I, personally, don't have kids of my own - well, human kids, that is :lol: - but my mother is a piano teacher, and we both know a lot of tricks that parents can use to, say, remind their kids to practice, in a non-confrontational way.)

I am VERY glad that everyone is going to get the homes, bedding, and toys that they need for stimulation - and I think that having her pay half is a great idea! You don't just "buy a rat" - there are a lot of other expenses that come with the territory. (Have you discussed with her what will happen if someone needs to go to the vet?)

She is obviously an "animal lover," even if she doesn't know how to care for them properly. She wants to bring home little furry things and love them. This is just speculation on my part, but I'm guessing that she is searching for something that makes her happy, and when she gets a new rat, she gets happy, as we all do. However, if there is a void within her, and the rats she has gotten already haven't fulfilled it, it's very likely that ~even more~ rats will still not fulfill it. However, having deep and loving relationships with the pets she has will probably feel very rewarding.

I don't know how you can take a firm but loving stand with her on this, but I do feel as though she needs to stop acquiring new pets. (My mom didn't have ANY problem laying down the law on this with me - she said, "You may not bring home ANY more rats, and if you do, you'll turn right around and take them back." However, she's been more than fair, since she would rather have no rats, and I currently have two rats. I recognize that this is a reasonable bargain.) A good idea is to stop looking at the rats in the pet stores, even when you go to buy rat stuff. If you see someone cute, it's very tempting to bring them home.

I think a lot of us here get "new rat joy" when someone on the forum gets a new rat or rats. We share the pictures, and the stories about the funny things they do, and it's almost like having an "extended rat family." (There's a BIG rat on the forum named "Noah," and he is cared for by Jessu! I'm pretty sure we ALL love him, and want to hear everything about how he's doing!)

There are books you can buy/borrow from the library that talk about rat care, rat play, rat health, etc. Anything by Debbie Ducommon (sp?) is pretty great. Has your daughter taught her rats to come to her when she calls their names? Has she taught them to "find the hidden treat," say, out of site in an empty kleenex box? There are tons of games to play with your rats, and the books usually give some good recommendations. Rather than the happiness she gets from bringing home yet another new baby rat, think of the joy she will experience when she calls a rat's name, he comes, and she rewards him with pets, kind words, and maybe a treat! Now ~that's~ love! Rats are, generally, overflowing with love, and would love to share some love with you! 

The more rats you have, the less time you have to give individual attention. My advice is REALLY TRY to keep more rats from coming in at this point. IMO, that's pretty important right now, for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is to show your daughter that a deeper happiness comes from great relationships with your pet rats, and not necessarily buying more new friends.

I would encourage you to keep up the work with "Tiny," or "Nippy," or "Fatty Mc Fat Rat!" :lol: Talk to him gently, and take the advice that was offered earlier on the thread. "Eeep" is a good way to communicate that you don't like being nipped. He'll understand that. He'll also, probably, come around to realizing that you are the source of food, love, play, and all good things. Rats are pretty smart. His size may be intimidating, but don't let it scare you! Many of us here LOVE big rats...just more of them to love. Remember that the little ones' teeth are just as sharp as the big one, and that he probably just needs time to settle in, and get comfortable. Every rat, like every person, has a unique personality, and some are just a little more "high strung" than others.

Do you have special food treats that you reserve for special times? I do, and when I'm going to hand them out, I tell my rats, "Sweeties! Want sweeties?" They absolutely know what that means, and they start looking around for the good stuff I'm going to give them. (Buscemi really likes chocolate covered sunflower seeds, and Augustus likes rice pudding or bread pudding.) Treats aren't a part of the everyday diet, but rather, like a dessert: something really special for them.

I thoroughly agree that your daughter would probably like involvement in some sort of volunteer program with animals, where she can love ALL the animals, and be taught how to care for them, and make ~them~ happy. Do you know if you have something like that in your area?

I'm not...very pleased...with some of the things your EX-husband has been saying; I know you're not, either. :evil: You don't have to make ~him~ understand this, but it's important for you to understand that you're not "making a choice" between your daughter and the rats. Rather, you are trying to find a way where everyone can be happy. It's not a competition...there's enough love for everyone, and since your daughter obviously loves rats, I'm sure that she will want to do everything right for them, to show her love.

-----------------------------

This next bit is a little sad, so sensitive folks might not want to read it.

Has she (or you) ever lost a rat (in the sense of the rat passing away?) Sadly, their lives are very short, compared to some other mammalian pets. I loved and love my first rat, Gregor Samsa, with all my heart, and I think I did everything I could to make his life beautiful. Sadly, he only lived to be a little over a year old...genetic problems.

When you go through the loss of a rat you really, really love, it puts into perspective how very important it is to keep their short lives as wonderful as possible. Toys, treats, playtime, ratty friends...all of these are elements in a wonderful rat life. IMO, when the time comes to say, "goodbye," it's always too soon, and, when that time comes, one of the few comforting things is to be able to say, "Well, he was as happy as he could possibly be, during his life, and he knew he was always loved. (Another comfort are the people on this board; everyone here is so supportive, and they really understand how the loss of a rat can tear you up inside...I never would have gotten through Gregor's death, if not for the kind words and encouragement I received here.)

My point is, since you and your daughter love animals, you don't want to have any regrets, like, "I wish I'd spent more time/given them a better cage/gotten more toys etc." You don't want to wind up with regrets. It's hard enough, even when you've given them everything you can.

Remember that each little ratty is special, and loving, and wants to share their ratty lives with you and your daughter. If you (and especially she) are open to their love, are open to giving them playtime, interesting toys to play with and shred and chew up, a clean, sanitary home so that they stay healthy, and their favorite treats now and again, they will reward you 100 times over with the loving and strong bond that will develop.

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Do you have pix of your ratties posted here? I'd love to see them!

*** Does anyone know where that post is, called, "Just A Rat?" It's a good one, and I brought it into my vet. It would be nice to repost here, as a counter-opinion to the idea that rats are "disposable pets." (No living thing is "disposable.")

Just wanted to mention...my little Buscemi's nickname is "Boo," so I have a Boo, too! 

I'm wishing you, your daughter, and your rats all the best!

Here's a "family portrait" of me, Gus, and Boo!


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## Pomperella (Jun 4, 2007)

what lovely caring advice, you guys are great. what a pleasure to read x


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

Hi Holly - thank you for your post. Im sorry I didnt respond sooner, we had a baby rattie pass on yesterday (blue nimbus). This is the first time Ive dealt with this, although Im sure it never gets easier. 

Im going to wait a day or so and read your post with 'fresh eyes' so I can actually comprehend what it says.

THank you for taking the time - I appreciate it so much 

ANd that goes for everyone...

Blessings, 
Lanyce


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## Holly (Dec 31, 2006)

Oh, I'm so very sorry to hear about your dear baby ratty!


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