# 13!!!!!!! OMG



## Nazarath

i'm so excited!!! i hurd some sqeaking last night and i thought it was too loud to be my mouse mamas babies. So i looked in Topaz's cage and she has 13 little pink babaies!!!! She lived with my male for about a week and then got the sniffles so i had to move them apart. I didn't know she had taken!!! i'm so happy she did and i'm so excited. I'm hoping to get some blues. Naz is a blue hooded and she's a black hooded. Naz is getting older so i breed them in hopes of getting a Naz Jr. so i can always remember him . I know kind of silly but me and Naz are super close. I'll post pics asap, i don't want to bother her too much. 

I did want to ask, sometimes when they are sucking on her teats she'll drag them out. Should i place them back in?? or will she do that? as fare as i know she's a first time mother. I've also taken her off her sniffles meds so it wont harm the babies. I've done mouse babies but not rat lol.

I took a vedio of them but youtube doesn't let me play it?, if someone knows how i can play it please let me know.

p.s. Thought a little pole on what color the babies would be, would be fun!! please join in


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## Poppyseed

Daaw! They are adorable XD

That's a lot of babies


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## Nazarath

Anyone going to join me in my post? i wanted to pick more than one but i guess you can't. No problem!


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## twitch

until the hues start showing i don't want to guess. so i'll hold off for a few days. at least until they're 3-4 days old pics are up. 

have you started sexing them yet? do you know how many girls and boys there are? have you started to list them in the adoption forums of the net? the sooner you get them in the better. it can take a LONG time to find everyone homes and the more pubilcity they get the better.


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## Nazarath

They are about 2 or 3 days old i've had a little peak while mommy was running in her ball but it was honestly a little hard to say. I live in a small town but i will give it a shot since i might get lucky. I'm hoping to keep a male if theres a blue male so we'll see how that goes. I'll keep giving little peaks now and then. I'm happy that mommy isn't being bity so fare *knocks on wood*


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## Nazarath

Ok i took a mini Video of the little ones, i hope the link works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiS1Oivg0fQ


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## Nazarath

OK i've done a re-count and there are 12, 5 boys and 7 girls. Looks like we have some selfs, capped, and possibly a dalmation.


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## fallinstar

hehe i still want them all!


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## Nazarath

I've found a home for one of my little ones with my bestfriend Bettyjo, It was her b-day and she has a little female who needs a cage buddie so once one of my female are ready to leave mommy she'll get to pick one and see how things go. (of course she'll have her own cage for a while before they meet one another) I'm also going to give her a breeding Cert. so she can check out who her babies granmommys were and what not!


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## fallinstar

awww thats 1 less for me lol u need 2 move 2 england so i can have all ur pets lol just kidding! how are the kittens doing?


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## Nazarath

Nice and healthy, I hear all of them chatting with mom and all are suckling nicely! very strong bunch... I should get an updated pic.... we'll see. You can see markings a whole lot better!!


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## Nazarath

I've quite possibly found homes for 2 of my little boys, i'm getting everyones pedigrees put together. I'm also planing a vet trip for them soon to assure thier healthyness.


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## Night

Just a suggestion... I know I can't stop you from breeding, although you really shouldn't do it anymore honestly, but you need to find homes for your babies BEFORE you breed, just to insure that they have some place to go once they're 6 weeks old.


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## fallinstar

stop picking FAULTS you are getting to be so annoying!
nazarath they are so cute i love the vid!


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## Night

Actually, I'm not doing anything wrong here. I'm simply suggesting that she finds home for the babies before she breeds her rats. 

You're the one who's picking on MY faults now, fallinstar, and are replying to nearly all of my replies either trying to find something wrong with what I say, or just plainly yelling at me. Stop that.


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## Vixie

fallinstar said:


> stop picking FAULTS you are getting to be so annoying!


You are, once again, jumping to conclusions.

Night is damned right when she SUGGESTS that nazareth find homes before the birth. She didn't do it negatively, did she say "you're so wrong for not finding homes for those poor kittens, you're horrible for not doing that"?? NO! She said nothing of the sort! She simply advised for future reference!


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## fallinstar

i am not doing any thing wrong here alright i dont like your critisium, and im not replying to all you posts i am simply using the forum as i always have


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## Night

My criticism is constructive and completely mannerly and nice.


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## Vixie

Night said:


> My criticism is constructive and completely mannerly and nice.


Agreed, it has been less negative towards the poster as of late. I'm glad to see that.


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## fallinstar

im fed up with this this is a forum to talk about rats not to be rude and pick faults and take sides and make people feel down so plz stop


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## Night

I agree, fallinstar. So why don't you listen to what you're saying and actually follow it? The only one being rude here is you.


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## fallinstar

im sorry but i am being as nice as i possibly can be im finding it hard to be nice at the moment due to greive but i am trying my **** hardest


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## Vixie

'greive'.....greif?

Explain that a bit, maybe?


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## fallinstar

greif as in a family member pased away this week


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## Vixie

...I see. Sorry for the loss.


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## Nazarath

Night my mother has been a Sert. breeder for well over 16 years now. She is teaching me as i learn from her. My mother has/had prevous homes set up for the little ones that i can't adopt out. She gave me the job of finding homes for my own kittens instead of doing the work for me. I've been looking for homes for them WELL before i even Breed Nazarath & Topaz. I failed to tell everyone this because i figured that since i've named many times that my mother is a breeder that this question wouldn't come up. Me and my mother have some beautiful lines and genetics coming from these kittens so... I'll keep breeding thank You


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## Night

She's a certified breeder? Where is she registered? What's her rattery name?


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## Nazarath

Yes she is a Certified breeder, She is REg. to N.F.R.S , S.A.C.B, and R.R.A
Her Rattery name also happens to be the name of our stableing property "uMgazi Ranch& Farm"


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## reachthestars

Nazarath, those are some cute little pinkies you've got there . What are some of the colors in the lines, just so we can make educated guesses?

Fallinstar- the point of a forum is to hear other peoples' opinions and to learn from other's experiences. As long as it's done in a positive way it's a good thing .


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## Nazarath

Thank you Reachthestars  the dom. lines we have coming from Naz are: Blue and capped. Topaz has Self and black. I'll have to get their papers from mom so i can get their lines, i'm about 90% sure these are their colors. If i remember correctly theres no Dumbos or Rex's present in there genes. (i double check for everyone).


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## Nazarath

>.< ok heres the problem, my mom left monday to a huge rat expo in the bay area at the Cow Placa and wont be back till sunday, ALL of our bloodlines, genetic info, etc` etc are in her locket cabinets >.< so if u bear with me till sunday i'll post everything then.


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## Nazarath

while we wait i took a short vedio of how active the little ones are becoming hehe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3F3q2jMCHU


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## twitch

wiggly little squirts aren't they! so cute


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## Nazarath

oh yea they are!!!! they r so cute! i've taken a fancy to this cute male mismatched Hooded .


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## Rodere

One thing I will suggest.. as many unwanted rats and rats needing homes in California, why not start a rat rescue instead of breeding and open your home and heart to those who are already here needing homes? Even if you only took in pregnant females or mothers and their litters?

Every baby you breed and adopt out takes away another home that could have gone to one sitting right now in a shelter. And it is common practice for a shelter to euthanize new animals as soon as they come in when they don't have room for them. You'd kind of be saving two lives instead of just one. More than 2 if those rescued are pregnant. Because when they don't have room, they will often euthanize any litters born as well.

The average rat lives about 2 1/2 years. That's 912.5 days in their lifetime. Some of those rats have been there 6 months, a year, or more. You could make the difference in their lives, if you choose to.


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## twitch

i thought nazarath lived in the UK?


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## Nazarath

No twitch i live in Cali ... I am planning on opening a rescue since there are no rat rescues in my area. However i don't have the room at this time. I have built a new track room for all my horse tack and i wish to turn my old one into a "rat room". It has everything i would need, kool in summer and warm in winter. I have an extra cage but i'm working to building more. I'm also going to look for people who might donate cages and money to my cause. I've been talking to my vet and she is also helping me plan and helping me set up a "program" where i can bring in rescued rats and they can get a free check up. I want to do more planing and more reading up before i just open up and start takeing rats in though, but i have this idea and i'm thinking of running it by my mother as well. 

Oh! mom came home and i was talking to her about posting the peds. however she didn't like the idea, i know where her key is (now that she's home) but without her permission it wouldn't feel right posting the info.  sorry...

AND... I've found a home for the little boy, it's offical and his mommy will be taking him on the 22nd 23rd ish. Best of all he'll be right down the street so i can always go check on him, and if any problems arise i will be able to assist his new mom .


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## reachthestars

What's wrong with just telling the rats lines and breeders they came from? Does the girl taking the rat have others for this boy? Will she observe proper quarentine? 

Between this and your posts on Rats Rule, something seems a little fishy to me...


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## Nazarath

I'm not sure to tell you the truth. I asked mom what the harm could be and she said i shouldn't have to prove anything to some skeptical online people i talk to. I droped the subject since well... you don't know my mom lol. It's ok if you don't believe me thats not my problem. I'm sorry it sounds fishy and i see why it does. I've been reading up on my hw for opening a rescue and never really said anything before because it was something in the fare fare futur. After talking with my mom (to get legal assistance) she motiveated to pursue my goal now . I've got a couple more people and older adults helping me along and making sure i don't forget anything . It's al going well, i have no rats yet (other than my little ones) and don't plan on offering to accept any until I have more cages, food, and supplies. I promise everyone i've done my homework on this, sure i don't know everything but thats why i have a few older adults helping me along so i don't forget something important or just something simple . 
Also yes she knows about proper quarentine, she has one other rat she rescued from a bad bad home. She's been learning stuff from me and mom. She's my bestfriend and has been with me and helped me with my personal rats for a long time. Also living right down the street i'll be able to visit the little one at any time. 
Thank you to the rest of you for all your support .


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## Nazarath

eeekkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  babies eyes are open now!!! omg they are just the cutest little things in the world. Crawling around and everything!!! oh i'm so excited . I've noticed we have about 4 berkshires, capped, and some mismatched hooded. theres a few more but it's almost those close markings. Where it could be a berk. or a blaze deal? I'll post pics for everyone to have fun with soon .


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## Poppyseed

Ooh awesome!


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## reachthestars

Just reread your post in 'Say Hello' and I have to say I'm concerned. You said there that Naz came from a girl who no longer wanted him, and Topaz was from a petstore. Have you been lying to us to make yourself feel better about breeding two unpedigreed rats? It sounds as though you have no clue on the gentic history of either rat which makes me feel very sorry for the babies that are the result of the irresponsible breeding. You've already said in the topic that you didn't have home lined up beforehand, which could leave you with many innocent rats to look after. 

It's time for the truth please.


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## Nazarath

OK, no they ARE NOT petstore rats?? u might have gotten confused or something? in "I own 3 rats" i think it's titled i talk about how Naz was a runt and Topaz came from one of moms fellow breeders. Takota is a pet store rat though, i have no plans on breeding her. If i don't find them homes thats fine with me. We have MORE than enough room for all the little ones. If you read one of my other posts this was a semi accident littler. I wanted to breed Naz and Topaz but ended up spliting them up, i had no idea she was preg becuase they we're together a week and i always saw them just playing (maybe they did the deed while i was asleep). I knew it was possible she was preg. but she didn't show any signs so i assumed she wasn't and there for didn't look into homes too much. Need i remind you my mom is a breeder and so it's not like we don't have enough food, water, and homes for everyone to live in when they get older. 

Now i can understand seeing something fishy but i don't think your being very fare in hunting down every post i make to try and find something wrong with me or an idea i have. Please stop wasting your time because for the millionth time i know what i am doing and i've been around rats my whole life.


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## reachthestars

If everything you posted was correct, why did you go back today and edit the whole thing? Originally it said that Naz was taken from a friend who no longer wanted him. People who tell the truth have nothing to hide.


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## Nazarath

i didn't change anything? oh my gosh i've got nothing to prove to you. I know the truth and if u believe me awesome if not it's really not my problem. I'm done talking with you, It's possible someone else posted that?? or did u just make up this story to try and make me look bad?? oir either way i'm done on this topic with you.


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## reachthestars

If you didn't change anything why does it say that it was edited today by you? 

I'm not trying to make you look bad, some things just have been seeming off to me, and when I looked into it it was even more so. I feel bad for those poor babies that were brought into this world so carelessly.


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## Nazarath

Seriously i'm done talking about this, edited it by adding my comment about them not being petstore rats. Can you just leave me alone now?? and these "poor babies" have an excellent home with me should they not be all adopted out. I've got them out at this moment playing with them  now please i not going to reply to you anymore. Nothing to prove on my end .


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## JennieLove

There's no point to fighting about "who edited what" or "where the rats came from"....it happened, its over and there's nothing that can change that. I think that the MOST important thing right now is that Nazarath IS taking very good care of the babies and that all are in great health and have a wonderful home and if adopted out will go to nice, loving, responsible rat owners.


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## Sky14

If it's posible I MIGHT be able to get one. It's just a matter of transportation. 

You should know why Nazarath.


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## Nazarath

Good news, me and my friend (the one adopting one little boy) played with the little ones today. They seemed a little scared but enjoyed some carrot and even licking me and Betty . I want to add an updated pick but i need them to stay still lol.


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## JennieLove

I wanna see the BABIES! YAY!


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## Nazarath

OK i've been able to take some pics, Theres one i have a question about. I'm pretty sure i know he's a mismatched hooded but his black dot is so small i'll make sure lol. I've added a picture of the little boy i plan on keeping (should the rest get adopted) I've named him Xavier .


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## reachthestars

The marking on the first one is small enough that I would feel comfortable calling him capped. They're certainly cute little stinkers.


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## twitch

with xaiver, is that white markings on his face by his eye or just glare?


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## Ashadeen

The first one isn't a capped, it is a bareback mismatched.

Very cute babies


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## Nazarath

Xavier has the white blaze, i will admit i love it . So yea i was thinking he was a capped but the bearback sounds possible to.


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## Nazarath

Babies are getting weaned from mommy this sunday!!!! they've had play time in their new cage while being handeld so it shouldn't be too new to them, other than mom will be gone .


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## Rodere

Won't they only be about 26 days old then? I was thinking they were born about Febuary 21st. Feb was even a short month. That's a little under four weeks and a little early to be weaning them.


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## Nazarath

I noticed she had the little ones on the 21st, because about 3 or 4 days before that i hurd sqeaking. My mother mouse had just had little ones so i just assumed it was them. Then about 3 days later (they day i noticed them) i noticed the sqeaks were super loud, much louder than any baby mouse could be. So i would add about two or three days onto the 21st. 
I checked my cal. and they are about 4 weeks old give or take a day. The main reason i feel good about weaning them tomorrow is the fact they can eat and drink by themselfs. 
I'm also plan to bring them by my vet for a check up before i send the adopted ones home. Which will easily be a week from tomorrow so i can make double sure they are nice and healthy.


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## Rodere

Ahh.. ok. When you posted you said she must have had them the day before you found them. I normally always handle my own rats every day and especially check pregnant moms every day, so I figured you'd have found them quicker.

It's usually best to wait a little bit even after they can eat and drink to take mom from them. The milk they get from her is an important supplement for growth and health. At least a few more days. They usually will have weaned the babies themselves once it comes time to seperate them. Taking them away from her entirely all in one day not only could stress her out, but it could be somewhat traumatizing.


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## Nazarath

I totaly agree , they went to the Vet yesterday and they are all healthy (YAY ) my vet said it would be fine to wean them now, however i felt a little wierd after sperating them so i figured i would leave them with mommy till next sunday. I'm still very excited but just better to Just to be safe, you know? I do take them out and sort of give mom the day off and will put them back with her in the evenings. So the time they have a part grows over time . 
Oh and i didn't notice them sooner because Topaz "decided" to be a mommy that doesn't give me the littlest sign of being preg. lol.


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## Ashadeen

I would not seperate them before 5 weeks. Although they can eat and drink by themselves, they still need the fatty milk of mummy. Also is this one week important for socialising matters mum will teach them.

I usually seperate the boys with 5 weeks and let the girls stay with mummy.


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## Nazarath

Thats what i was thinking of doing, Taking the lil' boys out into their own new home and leaveing mommy with her little girls . I plan on moving the little boys in with daddy but i want to wait till they are a little more grown up lol. Daddy has said hi once and he was so sweet, he started to clean the little ones so i hoep things stay this good when they get older.
OH! i abused my bf's portable camra hehe, i have some cute little pics of the little ones! Hope everyone likes.


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## DonnaK

Awwwwww!!


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## linz_04

oh my gosh they are SO SO SO CUTE!!!!!


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## Nazarath

i know!! I'm adopting out all of them, I'm keeping one (maybe two) and i've found homes for two of the little boyz. OH i just wanna keep them all lol.


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## JennieLove

OMG! I love that one that has the black spot on the back and the white on its face!


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## Rodere

Cute. A whole bunch of REWs and hoodeds lol

I wanted to point out that pine bedding isn't good for rats. It has chemicals in it that can damage their respiratory tract and cause lifelong respiratory problems. It would be best if you switched to apsen bedding, carefresh, or yesterdays news. Pine and cedar are not recommended for most small animals, although the petstores always say it is ok, they've been saying that same thing after years of documentation against it.


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## Nazarath

They don't live in that type of bedding, They have those larger wood shavings that they live in. We use the pine in our horse stalls and just wanted the little ones to stand out so the hooded ones wouldn't belnd in so much with the dark backround. I figured a few sconds with the pine wouldn't kill them. 
Jennielove thats the one i plan on keeping  hehe i've named him Xavier  he's such a little sweet heart.


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## JennieLove

Good! I wanna see more of that one! Hehe, I can't wait to see him get bigger


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## Nazarath

The new offical weaning date will be sunday afternoonish. They spent the afternoon yesterday in their new home and mom had some time to herself . They are really in the pop corn stage as i hear people saying, bouncing just everywhere!!! oh i love them


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## Nazarath

Heres a newish pic of them with all their names 

The little white self to the fare left is Named Prince, I don't know how easy it is to see his name.


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## Inesita

Aw, they're so cute!


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## JennieLove

OoOoO Names to all the cute faces!


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## Nazarath

A little up date  i have sexed everyone and i have 3 little boys and 6 little girls, i think before it was the other way around so they tricked me little buggers lol. I've found myseld double checking sexs to make sure i have made a mistake of any kind. Just being overly careful again i suppose . I'm going to get some updated pics today should my cam behave for me .


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## Nazarath

Yet another update for everyone. The little girls now live in their own little... well BIG cage together and the little boyz are living with dad. Topaz is doing great.


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## JennieLove

Thats good to hear they are doing great!


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## Stephanie

glorious! hope you have fun with all the little critters


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## Night

Good to hear they're doing well  My foster litter was just weaned today. One of the males went to his new home, also!


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## Nazarath

thats awesome!! I was walking around WalMart today with Naz and someone asked where i got him . I hold her about the rescue and said she would give me a call . Sure she might never call but pretty good to get someone out there who knows . My boyfriend is trying to talk his parents into letting him adopt another little girl for his little girl. She's been alone because of his dads allergies but they've found out is was something in their dish soap (go figure) so they are "thinking" about letting him get another little one . Also I hate to say it (sort of) but naz is getting along with Prince so well i might not be able to adopt him out. (the boyfriend isn't helping me say no either lol).


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## fallinstar

nazarath i cant belive u havent sent me that pic lol well i did c them on cam i still want them all how many have u found homes for now? rember i want them all lol air mail them 2 me


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## Nazarath

i'll mail them right now!! *flys to the UK with babies* lol. My bf MIGHT be taking one and if that woman contacts me that would be too. I've left cards at all the petstores and other animal places around me. I've left some "ads" on forums and such. Then when i walk around with Naz more people findout. So I have 2boys and 6 girls to still adopt out. However i'm still in no rush. I don't want to push them on someone you know?


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## Night

It's always fun taking your rats places with you, especially since it helps spread the word about how awesome pet rats are, but you should air on the side of caution when doing so. Just make sure never to go near/in a pet store while you have your rat(s) with you, since like I've mentioned in other posts on the forum, airborne viruses run rampant with rats, ESPECIALLY in pet stores.


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## Nazarath

I have yet to bring my babies into a petstore.... wait... I did bring Naz into out local petstore (the only one i approve of). I didn't stay too long thought (i was droping off cards) so i plead guilty i've taken him in one before .


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## Night

Well, just keep in mind not to do so in the future and you should be okay


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## Nazarath

Petstores aren't a common stop for me and Nazy, Oh and i'm thinking of starting a new post for this topic so everyone doesn't have to click all the way to the 6th page lol.


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## Shar

http://www.paw-talk.net/forums/f82/umgazi-ranch-rat-rescue-northern-california-40654.html


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## Night

Way to lie, Nazareth. Don't advertise animals as rescues when they're obviously not. And they're NOT an accidental litter.


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## Poppyseed

8O wow Naz D: I can't believe you lied to that forum DD:


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## OnlyOno

technically she didn't say that the rats were rescued. she said that she _runs_ a rescue and the rats came from her own pet. the fees to adopt would go towards helping her rescue. and they _would_ technically be an accidental litter seeing as she didn't seem to know that rats go into heat every 4 days. i think it's more of a using the name of a rescue to get people to trust that you know a thing or two about rats.

wasn't trying to start anything there, just thought i'd mention.


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## Night

Nazarath said:


> i'm so excited!!! i hurd some sqeaking last night and i thought it was too loud to be my mouse mamas babies. So i looked in Topaz's cage and she has 13 little pink babaies!!!! She lived with my male for about a week and then got the sniffles so i had to move them apart. I didn't know she had taken!!! i'm so happy she did and i'm so excited. I'm hoping to get some blues. Naz is a blue hooded and she's a black hooded. Naz is getting older so i breed them in hopes of getting a Naz Jr. so i can always remember him . I know kind of silly but me and Naz are super close.


Not an accident at all.

Also, before you editted your post on Paw Talk, you said all donations were tax deductible - another lie. Getting a 501(c)(3) status takes a very, very long time, and a lot of paperwork. Your rescue hasn't even been "open" two weeks.


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## Poppyseed

Regardless, I think she left this forum so maybe it's best to drop any potential Naz drama?


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## Night

She left the forum? How cowardly.


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## Kimmiekins

Lots to say, but just one thing I will say, if she's still around.

I'd be REALLY careful of saying a rescue has 501(c)(3) status when it doesn't. There are all sorts of legal (and IRS) problems one could run into... I believe that could be considered charity fraud, especially if someone donates under the idea that it would be tax deductible. Not to mention false advertising. I don't know if you'd be held accountable, given your age, but your parents should would. Fraud is a criminal offense and a civil law violation and can sometimes be a federal offence, so I don't think they'd be too happy hearing you're pretending to be something you're not.


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## fallinstar

well night if some one consantly critisided every post you made and got others to do the same wouldnt you feel a bit pushed out and naz has done the adult thing but leaving the forum instead of causing problems like you are, so no she is not cowardly she is being responsible


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## Night

How is she being responsible at all? She lied, false advertised, and tried to get money out of people with the lie about having 501(c)(3) status. That's not an adult thing to do, at all. It's immature, childish, and actually illegal. How am I starting problems? I simply replied to something that was posted - and what I said was completely warranted. I fail to see how running away from stiuations with your tail between your legs is anything short of pathetic and cowardly.

Of course I'm upset. Real rescues have to work hard at what they do. They don't run around lying about everything, and adopting out rats from a litter they PURPOSELY bred, saying they're from an "accidental" litter.


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## Sara_C

Leaving a forum simply because you can't take criticism isn't 'the adult thing to do'. And i hardly think starting a rat rescue without doing the proper paperwork and doing very little research is hardly 'responsible' either.


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## DonnaK

Night said:


> tried to get money out of people with the lie about having 501(c)(3) status.


I know that Naz researched and planned for her rescue for a long long time, so is it possible that she applied for that status long before she actually "launched" her rescue?



Night said:


> I fail to see how running away from situations with your tail between your legs is anything short of pathetic and cowardly.


Some people just don't like conflict.


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## Night

How long has she been planning it? 

From the 501(c)(3) website:

_IRS Form 1023 is 28-pages long, plus required schedules and attachments. While every organization does not have to complete every page, a typical application package is between 25-75 pages of material. More important, however, is the amount of time required to complete the package. The IRS estimates a preparation time of *well over 100 hours* for a novice to prepare Form 1023. _

After that, it can take up to (or over!) a year to get so much as looked at.

And if she does, indeed, have that status, why would she go back and delete that information from her post on the other rat forum?


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## DonnaK

I'm not sure how long she's been planning it. I think it was when she first posted in here about help with naming it that she mentioned that she had been planning for a long time.

As for removing the info from the post, I don't know.

I'll see if I can find the original post...


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## Night

No need to look, here it is.


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## DonnaK

Sorry, I meant the original post where she said how long she had been planning the rescue.


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## Kimmiekins

You have to be having a certain amount of money flowing in and out (especially out) before you can even think about 501(c)(3) status. There is no possible way she could have applied so shortly after starting. She would have been rejected, based solely on how little money she had put into the rescue so far. Planning means nothing in this area.

EDIT: In fact, there was a rat rescue, running more then a year, that recently got rejected for that very reason.


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## Night

Oops 

But, since it's there, that's the original post on the other forum - where she says donating to her rescue is tax deductable.


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## DonnaK

*Here* it is. She said she had been planning the rescue for 3 years.


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## Kimmiekins

*headdesk*

Okay, so somehow, she managed to get around ALL the red tape every charity has had to go through in a very small amount of time. She did this all, depsite being underage [if we're saying she did this in the planning stage] (and therefore, not being able to obtain a Tax ID number). Are you for real? You CAN'T apply for charity status for a charity that does not yet exist.

You can't argue against the laws! You can not obtain 501(c)(3) status based on planning alone! Have you ever read up on it?

http://www.ezec.gov/Toolbox/501c3factsheet.html
http://www.t-tlaw.com/lr-04.htm


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## DonnaK

Kimmiekins said:


> *headdesk*
> 
> Okay, so somehow, she managed to get around ALL the red tape every charity has had to go through in a very small amount of time. She did this all, depsite being underage [if we're saying she did this in the planning stage] (and therefore, not being able to obtain a Tax ID number). Are you for real? You CAN'T apply for charity status for a charity that does not yet exist.
> 
> You can't argue against the laws! You can not obtain 501(c)(3) status based on planning alone! Have you ever read up on it?
> 
> http://www.ezec.gov/Toolbox/501c3factsheet.html
> http://www.t-tlaw.com/lr-04.htm


No, I know nothing about 501(c)(3), which is why I asked the question "IS IT POSSIBLE". I am not arguing against any laws, I am just trying to give Naz the benefit of the doubt. Please don't jump down my throat with your smart comments if you can't be bothered to read my comments properly.


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## Night

Why are people saying she 'left the forum,' when she was just on?


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## reachthestars

I saw her on a minute ago as well.....


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## Kimmiekins

DonnaK said:


> No, I know nothing about 501(c)(3), which is why I asked the question "IS IT POSSIBLE". I am not arguing against any laws, I am just trying to give Naz the benefit of the doubt. Please don't jump down my throat with your smart comments if you can't be bothered to read my comments properly.


No problem, long as you do the same. I and others had already stated that no, it wasn't possible, and you still answered with how she'd been planning for 3 years, etc. I'm all about benefit of the doubt, but we're talking about something that's illegal here, and that's not something that those of us who are active in rescuing like to see thrown about. Many established rat rescues don't have charity status, although they'd be better off with it. I find it offensive - and it's downright illegal and morally wrong - to claim you have tax exempt status when you don't.

Sorry if I came off harsh towards you.


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## DonnaK

Kimmiekins said:


> DonnaK said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I know nothing about 501(c)(3), which is why I asked the question "IS IT POSSIBLE". I am not arguing against any laws, I am just trying to give Naz the benefit of the doubt. Please don't jump down my throat with your smart comments if you can't be bothered to read my comments properly.
> 
> 
> 
> No problem, long as you do the same. I and others had already stated that no, it wasn't possible, and you still answered with how she'd been planning for 3 years, etc. I'm all about benefit of the doubt, but we're talking about something that's illegal here, and that's not something that those of us who are active in rescuing like to see thrown about. Many established rat rescues don't have charity status, although they'd be better off with it. I find it offensive - and it's downright illegal and morally wrong - to claim you have tax exempt status when you don't.
> 
> Sorry if I came off harsh towards you.
Click to expand...

Apology accepted. The reason I came back with the 3 years thing was because I said in a previous comment that I would search for the original post where she said how long she had been planning and post it. I was just following that through.


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## Kimmiekins

My bad, then.


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## DonnaK

No worries.

I'm done with this, now. It's getting way too silly :lol:


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## OnlyOno

naz is just trying to do a good thing. it may not look (or definitely even be close to) legit, but that is because she didn't know any better. i think people could stand to just back off a little, let her figure some things out on her own (like how much it will cost, like getting in trouble with the IRS, like finding homes for her babies, etc). she'll get the lesson much better that way.

on another note, i think that people do not NEED to be stalking through forums and such to tear someone apart. it's not really your problem if the IRS comes to get Naz, so just leave it all alone, no?

i'm not taking sides or anything, i just think it's ridiculous that people are arguing this to death. and i don't think they meant that Naz left the forum (which is also not cowardly, it's just a way to avoid incessant confrontation, IMO), just that she has dropped this thread. why should she check it when all that fills it's 8 pages up is criticism for something nice that she tried?

just my two cents. not directed at anyone in particular, FYI.


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## Night

Again - swindling people's money is nothing short of illegal and horrible, not a "learning lesson." 

If someone's a fraud, they need to be exposed.


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## OnlyOno

how is she swindling money?


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## Night

Asking people to donate under false pretenses (IE - saying any money given is tax deductable).


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## Kimmiekins

It's not just a little thing, here. If someone were to donate, thinking it was tax deductible, that's a pretty big deal. If this were something that were just her and no one else involved, that's one thing. But people could be getting rats from what they think is a reputable rescue, when, in fact - if they are saying they are a charity org and aren't - they aren't. People take issue with that, as they should. It's not just Naz involved here, it's anyone that may donate or adopt from her under false pretenses.

The rat community online is somewhat small, all things considered. It's important that people know who they're dealing with. Something like this isn't small potatoes. If you're mis-representing something about your rescue, that could say a lot for the rest of your rescue and the animals. Other people shouldn't have to "learn a lesson" because someone else isn't running a legit rescue.

I'm not trying to be a pain here, but there are many people who might adopt rats in her area that would rather not deal with someone that isn't going about things the legal way. What's wrong with bringing that into the public eye? Better to be informed and decide not to go with a certain rescue then end up with problems down the road.

EDIT: Especially when there are hundreds of legit rescue rats that are homeless in California right now. It's a big problem there.


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## OnlyOno

fair enough. thank you for answering in a mature manner, it makes reading your reply a lot easier.  i hear you on that, i suppose. i wasn't thinking about the people who would also get the IRS on them for trying to get tax deducted off something that isn't tax-deductible, sorry.


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## Rodere

What I have always wondered about is how long she actually was thinking of rescuing. As far as I know, she never had even mentioned it until I wrore a post in reply to her 'breedings' and explained about just how many homeless rats there are in California and how long some of them are stuck in rescues and shelters and how many actually die without ever finding a home. According her to she 'had no idea' how many homeless rats there were in Cali. Wouldn't someone, whos been planning it for 3 years, have noticed that by then?

Then all of a sudden she's wanting to start one and going to think 'long and hard' and then less than a week later she's starting one. Then approximately 2 days later, it's already under way. During this time she is asking for a 'cheap' or free cage because her rats don't have enough space and she can't afford another one. And posting on GooseMoose that her purposeful litter was an accident. (So she hasn't lied to just one forum)

Now, money is suddenly of no object and she can shell out $75 to a 'professional' to look at her website and how she can pay any vet bills she needed to and has a vet on call 24/7. Her lies go too far beyond what is forgivable. She is putting the lives of rats she 'rescues' in danger if she cannot take care of them.


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## Rodere

Here are some links to California Non-profit sites that state some of the things you have to go through to obtain it.

http://www.methvenlaw.com/Handout_for_California_Nonprofit_Corporations.html

http://www.canonprofits.org/resources/staffroom/startups/howto.html

http://ag.ca.gov/charities/statutes.php

---------------------------------------------------
Further, here is a list of all non-profit charities in Gerber California. A search for all "animal protection, welfare and services" charities rendered 0 results. There is no uMgazi Rat Rescue listed.

1)
AMERICAN PUBLIC BENEFIT FOUNDATION 
GERBER, CA 96035
EIN Number: 
CT Number: 93057


2)
CALIFORNIA TEACHERS ASSOCIATION 
GERBER , CA 96035
EIN Number: 68-0294678
CT Number: 


3)
DAIRY PRINCESS CONTEST 
GERBER , CA 96035
EIN Number: 68-0235217
CT Number: 


4)
Faith Hope Love Ministries 
GERBER, CA 96035
EIN Number: 94-3017316
CT Number: 


5)
GERBER COMMUNITY CLUB INC 
GERBER , CA 96035
EIN Number: 94-2176493
CT Number: 


6)
GERBER FIRE DEPT AUXILIARY 
Gerber, CA 96035
EIN Number: 51-0172385
CT Number: 33013

7)
GERBER VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT 
GERBER, CA 96035
EIN Number: 94-1643852
CT Number: 31558


8)
Gospel Auditorium 
GERBER, CA 96035
EIN Number: 94-6122459
CT Number: 


9)
HOPE CHEST 
GERBER, CA 96035
EIN Number: 23-7298653
CT Number: 16139


10)
INDEPENDENT ASSEMBLIES OF GOD 
GERBER, CA 96035
EIN Number: 94-2692161
CT Number: 


11)
The Smith-Jones Community Center, Inc. 
GERBER, CA 96035
EIN Number: 23-7069560
CT Number:


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## Poppyseed

She pmed me telling me she was leaving and going on another site. She said she would still log in, but only to send and receive pms.

Yeah... she's always smelled a little fishy to me but you know I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. The web thing was just very weird, and the whole rescue full of her own 'accidental' litter is also weird.


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## Night

Poppyseed said:


> she's always smelled a little fishy to me


 :lol:


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## Rodere

When in doubt, I always do some serious searches on people. Whether it be by their email, their name, their location, etc. I can usually find something. I even check out all of my adopters just in case. I want to make sure I am not adopting out to anyone who has been convicted of animal abuse or anything like that.

I haven't looked up too much about her yet... but after everything that's been said and done and lied about.. I think I might. 

I did a search on an aquaintance once.. and found out she stole thousands and thousands of dollars from Amazon.com and had been on house arrest. Then I found out she took money for tickets to a canceled Sci-Fi convention, and is currently in jail for theft from another store and having a stolen credit card lol You'd be surprised what you'll find just with a google search.


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## Kimmiekins

Google is all-powerful, that's for sure. My "real life" motto is: "Google it." There's nothing you can't find if you search with the right words/names.

I wonder what forum she's going to. I hope no one gets tricked. 8O


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## fallinstar

there is nothing fishy about naz shes a good friend of mine and i would prefure it if u didnt put her down in that way as she has done nothing wrong


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## Nazarath

Rodere- I have a question for you, A while a go I went to check out your site and others so I can get an idea of how to improve mine. I noticed that you said 
"Rodere Rat Rescue has decided that we will try to institute a breeding program to provide an alternative to those seeking pet rats when we don't have rescues available. We want to provide them with well socialized, healthy, and happy companions instead of their only other resort being petstores. Petstore rats are, more often than not, unsocialized and could possibly be sick or pregnant. We will be specializing in dumbos in an array of colors and marking types. If you are interested in getting on our waiting list, please contact me."
I wanted to ask why you would want to breed rats while you are also going to try and find homes for already homeless rats?
http://arthoscastle.250free.com/Rodere/rescues.html

Than According to something else you have posted you also do not have a non-profit permit as well. 
http://charlestonwv.listpic.com/pet/273591845_Rodere_Rat_Rescue.html

I'm not trying to attack you or anything, I just simple want to know what you accuse me of all these things when you seem to be doing contradictory things to what you are harping on and telling me?


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## fallinstar

good observation there naz!


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## Rodere

Actually if you read it more carefully, it says that we are in the process of gaining a non-profit certificate. The process takes time and in some cases money and a lot of documentation about our costs for vet bills, food, transportation, housing, etc. I have never claimed to have offical non-profit status or that donations would be tax deductible. I honestly don't really see a question in that..

Here's a quote from what I said on that listing in case some cannot view it: "We are looking into getting a certificate for non-profit, but we've yet to put things in motion."

Rodere will have two different divisions. We will rescue homeless and abandoned pet rats. If there are none or very very few that we have in need of homes and if several people get on a waiting list for a litter, then we will put into effect our breeding program. I already have two pedigreed females, but I am in the process of getting a pedigreed male. He should be born this week.

I want to be able to provide well socialized happy rats with a good genetic background from their ancestors. Around here the only rats people usually get are from petstores. I want to keep people from supporting a place like that and getting an unsocialized rat who will probably have behavioral problems, not to mention health problems or be pregnant. I have already stated that the petstore rats around here have severe aggression issues.

I intend to continue rescuing and also to breed the right way. There is nothing contradictory about that and I would not be the only place doing it. For example Pirattery also runs Rat ReRuns, a rescue organization.

So what, out of all I've said countless times before, indicates you even need to ask those questions? Their answers can be found in the very place you got your questions from, if you read carefully. What in that, if anything, is like what you have been doing, like passing off your purposeful litter as an 'accident' and telling people they are rescues. Rescues aren't born to a rat you own unless you got her while she was pregnant. Not to mention your _non-existant _non-profit status. I don't see you putting an answer to that.


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## Nazarath

I know the process takes time, It's just you have proven my point. You can get a non-profit Cert. over night. I wanted to know why people are harping on me about not having one? I say Iâ€™m in the process just as you are and I'm a horrible person because I don't have one before hand? This is just what I meant. Like I said Iâ€™m not trying to attack you (I know it proble seemed like it). I can also in a way understand wanting to have litters available for possible adopters but wouldn't it be better to just have a waiting list than to produce more rats when there are so many that are already homeless out there? 
My mom is going to stop breeding rats because of 1. Her health and 2. A fellow member pointed out to me that it didn't really make since to be breeding rats while also finding homes for homeless ones. I'm really not trying to attack you or anyone else. I just meant it as a harmless question? It was also more of a general question but I see now I had worded it horribly. I am more than with you for helping people not to buy pet store rats. I wont lie Iâ€™ve gotten pet store rats before Iâ€™m no perfect person, know one is . Once again Iâ€™m not trying to make you look bad, I just wanted to point out that Iâ€™m not the only one in the process of getting non-profit status.


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## twitch

this topic is locked. posting dirty laundry will not be tolerated. please do not post links to other forums. it has also gone significantly off topic.


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