# Best Time for Spaying Pregnant Rat



## EleashaC (Jan 30, 2012)

Hi, guys. I've got three females rats living with me, right now. They all came from a pet store that had been breeding feeder rats, decided they were no longer making a profit, and wanted to get rid of all their rats. A few friends and I bought nine of them, before the store fed them to the snakes, and split them up between us. However, the incompetent owners swore up and down that all nine were males-- the moment we saw them, we knew it wasn't so. Big danglers on four of them.  Three of the baby girls were too young to get pregnant (or perhaps hadn't had opportunity), but the older girls were caged with their brothers for possibly up to six months. It's Saturday today, and we have all four of the older rats (the two girls included) booked in to be fixed on Monday. I just realized, about five minutes ago, that one of the older girls living with me is pregnant. I hadn't been too sure, at first, because she was very timid and spent most of her time hunched up in a corner. But she's been running around my rat room for a while, today, and I can definitely see a big rounded belly on her. I don't know how far along she is, but I'm wondering about the risks of spaying. Our vet, while extremely talented, kind, and experienced, has never fixed rats before-- he's offered to do them all at a lower price because of his inexperience. I most certainly DO NOT want a litter of babies; I don't have the resources, space, or time to care for them, and I'm very opposed to the indiscriminate breeding of pets, anyway. Are there higher risks for a pregnant rat? Will her recovery be different? Is there a point at which it's just too late to spay? Any information you guys could provide would be greatly appreciated! I'll take pictures as soon as I'm able to, and hopefully we can date how far along she is.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

It is called an e-spay (emergency spay) and it is more dangerous to the girl. The uterus is engorged with blood from the pregnancy and the farther along in her pregnancy the more dangerous and difficult it is. Has your vet done any surgical procedures with rats before?

Your vet has never spayed female rats before? I think you had better be prepared to lose some then, its an invasive procedure and with his complete lack of experience could be big incisions, etc.  Make SURE you go home with antibiotics and metacam for the girls.



EleashaC said:


> Hi, guys. I've got three females rats living with me, right now. They all came from a pet store that had been breeding feeder rats, decided they were no longer making a profit, and wanted to get rid of all their rats. A few friends and I bought nine of them, before the store fed them to the snakes, and split them up between us. However, the incompetent owners swore up and down that all nine were males-- the moment we saw them, we knew it wasn't so. Big danglers on four of them.  Three of the baby girls were too young to get pregnant (or perhaps hadn't had opportunity), but the older girls were caged with their brothers for possibly up to six months. It's Saturday today, and we have all four of the older rats (the two girls included) booked in to be fixed on Monday. I just realized, about five minutes ago, that one of the older girls living with me is pregnant. I hadn't been too sure, at first, because she was very timid and spent most of her time hunched up in a corner. But she's been running around my rat room for a while, today, and I can definitely see a big rounded belly on her. I don't know how far along she is, but I'm wondering about the risks of spaying. Our vet, while extremely talented, kind, and experienced, has never fixed rats before-- he's offered to do them all at a lower price because of his inexperience. I most certainly DO NOT want a litter of babies; I don't have the resources, space, or time to care for them, and I'm very opposed to the indiscriminate breeding of pets, anyway. Are there higher risks for a pregnant rat? Will her recovery be different? Is there a point at which it's just too late to spay? Any information you guys could provide would be greatly appreciated! I'll take pictures as soon as I'm able to, and hopefully we can date how far along she is.


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## EleashaC (Jan 30, 2012)

Here are a couple pictures; maybe we can figure out how far along she is?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

EleashaC said:


> Here are a couple pictures; maybe we can figure out how far along she is?
> 
> View attachment 4041
> View attachment 4042


EAch girl is different but I do think she's pregnant. Do you have a digital scale there? You could weigh her every day at the same time to determine IF she's pregnant and where she is in he pregnancy (roughly) by her consistent daily gain.


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## EleashaC (Jan 30, 2012)

I don't have a decent scale, unfortunately.  I'm going to check her vulva every night for signs of heat (as very unlikely as that seems), and cross my fingers that she'll pull through the spaying. I haven't named her yet, just in case she doesn't make it, which sounds really horrible-- but I can't stand getting too attached, just in case.  Is there anything I can do to make her survival more likely, like a specific diet, or something?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

EleashaC said:


> I don't have a decent scale, unfortunately.  I'm going to check her vulva every night for signs of heat (as very unlikely as that seems), and cross my fingers that she'll pull through the spaying. I haven't named her yet, just in case she doesn't make it, which sounds really horrible-- but I can't stand getting too attached, just in case.  Is there anything I can do to make her survival more likely, like a specific diet, or something?


They will need a name for the records. I name everyone, whether they might be coming home with me or not. I don't want this rats to e another nameless rat that dies not knowing what a real home was like.

I would advise as healthy a diet before-hand, with lots of vitamin-K rich foods (kale, spinach, etc) for helping her blood clot during the surgery.


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## EleashaC (Jan 30, 2012)

Mucho gracias! She's getting fatter every day; I don't think there's any doubt, now.  How big are they supposed to get? If she's really far along, should I just let her deliver, and rehome the babies, instead of risking a surgery?


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## digitalangel (Apr 16, 2009)

What animals does your vet have experience with. Have they don't emergency spays on cats? Have they done ferret, or guinea pig operations or other small animals? Rabbits? Some more background would help. Does he have the equipment is another question. Rats can not regulate their body temperature when sedated so they need to be kept warm but not burned (has happened to someone that their rat got severely burned during an op) do they have the right sized mask for the gas. Are they aware of the proper procedure to put a rat under and have they ever put a rat under before? A lot of sedates are a no go because they will kill the rat.


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## EleashaC (Jan 30, 2012)

As far as I know, he's done pretty much every other kind of animals, including ferrets. He's been practicing for something like forty years, and in a lot of emergency/isolated situations. He's fixed all my cats and dogs. I trust him implicitly as far as intent and knowledge. We brought up the possibility of doing the rats with him a week ago, and he called yesterday to tell us he's been reading everything he can on the subject, and preparing equipment. We tried all the other vets in town, too, but none of them have ever done rats, either. He seems to be our best bet. I'm seriously entertaining the possibility of just leaving her be, and allowing her to deliver the babies, though. I think she's very close to delivery; her stomach is so big it scrapes on the ground when she walks, and it looks like she's starting to build nests. I put a bigger nesting box in the cage tonight, just in case. 

I really appreciate the points you brought up, digitalangel; I had no idea about the sedatives and temperature regulation. Is there any other info you can give me on things of that nature, that I could pass along to my vet, just in case he doesn't know? I'm sure he's getting all the details he can, but it never hurts to make double sure. 

Also, what are the signs of labour? What do I need to watch out for over the next little bit, if she's going to pop soon?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

EleashaC said:


> As far as I know, he's done pretty much every other kind of animals, including ferrets. He's been practicing for something like forty years, and in a lot of emergency/isolated situations. He's fixed all my cats and dogs. I trust him implicitly as far as intent and knowledge. We brought up the possibility of doing the rats with him a week ago, and he called yesterday to tell us he's been reading everything he can on the subject, and preparing equipment. We tried all the other vets in town, too, but none of them have ever done rats, either. He seems to be our best bet. I'm seriously entertaining the possibility of just leaving her be, and allowing her to deliver the babies, though. I think she's very close to delivery; her stomach is so big it scrapes on the ground when she walks, and it looks like she's starting to build nests. I put a bigger nesting box in the cage tonight, just in case.
> 
> I really appreciate the points you brought up, digitalangel; I had no idea about the sedatives and temperature regulation. Is there any other info you can give me on things of that nature, that I could pass along to my vet, just in case he doesn't know? I'm sure he's getting all the details he can, but it never hurts to make double sure.
> 
> Also, what are the signs of labour? What do I need to watch out for over the next little bit, if she's going to pop soon?


If he does the surgery, make sure he uses isoflurane or sevoflurane gas...not injectable sedatives. Make sure you get at least metacam to take home, etc.

Its a tough call, and weights would help me determine where she is in her pregnancy...but more pics might help if you can get them? 

Pics of her naturally rearing up, or from above, none of the hold the girl up to see her belly, they struggle and wiggle and it gives you false impressions.


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## EleashaC (Jan 30, 2012)

Okay, I'll do my best to get some natural-position pics! Thanks.


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## EleashaC (Jan 30, 2012)

Okay, so I went into the rat room to take pictures, and she's hunkered down in her corner, kind of spread-eagled, making little chirping, huffing noises, and panting. Is this the moment?!?!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

EleashaC said:


> Okay, so I went into the rat room to take pictures, and she's hunkered down in her corner, kind of spread-eagled, making little chirping, huffing noises, and panting. Is this the moment?!?!


You would probably be able to see the contractions and her straining. They also lick the vulva and often pull the baby out. I don't like the chirping noises. Could she be sick?


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## EleashaC (Jan 30, 2012)

I don't think she's sick; she was very lively last night, running around, eatind and drinking, climbing on stuff... I don't see any discharge around the eyes or nose... She's in the farthest corner of the cage, where it's difficult to reach her, so I don't want to drag her out and stress her at all, but the noises she's making don't sound congested or laboured. They're more purposeful, it seems. How long does rat labour last? How long should I let her sit there before I try to move her, or examine her? Oh, and should I move the other two out of the cage?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

EleashaC said:


> I don't think she's sick; she was very lively last night, running around, eatind and drinking, climbing on stuff... I don't see any discharge around the eyes or nose... She's in the farthest corner of the cage, where it's difficult to reach her, so I don't want to drag her out and stress her at all, but the noises she's making don't sound congested or laboured. They're more purposeful, it seems. How long does rat labour last? How long should I let her sit there before I try to move her, or examine her? Oh, and should I move the other two out of the cage?


Yes move the others out ASAP...it can take 2 hours or so before the birth would be completed. Just leave her to get on with it.


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## EleashaC (Jan 30, 2012)

All right, so I headed in to remove the other two and feed everyone, and as soon as the pregnant one saw food, she perked right up. She came out of the corner, ran around the cage, ate a bunch of broccoli and corn and peach slices, and then started clambering around on the bars. I took as many pictures as I could, and hopefully these few can give you a better idea of her shape/size. No more squeaking or lethargy from her at all, so I think I'll just leave things be for now, and keep a close eye on her throughout the day.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

EleashaC said:


> All right, so I headed in to remove the other two and feed everyone, and as soon as the pregnant one saw food, she perked right up. She came out of the corner, ran around the cage, ate a bunch of broccoli and corn and peach slices, and then started clambering around on the bars. I took as many pictures as I could, and hopefully these few can give you a better idea of her shape/size. No more squeaking or lethargy from her at all, so I think I'll just leave things be for now, and keep a close eye on her throughout the day.
> 
> View attachment 4091
> View attachment 4092
> ...


She's almost ready to pop. At this stage only a very experienced vet should be allowed to attempt an e-spay, and even then there's still a chance at losing her. She needs to be separated out into a maternity cage or remove the other 2 as she's probably comfortable there. She can still have Out time with her cagemates just not live with them.


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## EleashaC (Jan 30, 2012)

Okay, great! I will most certainly not be getting her spayed, then. I really don't want to lose her, and I can handle the idea of aborting early-stage kits, but if they're pretty much ready to be born... it's seems a little cruel, honestly.  Thank you so, so much for your time and help, it's greatly appreciated!


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