# Swollen toe



## originalfirefly

Hello!

One of my rats toes is swollen. It is red and is at least twice the size of her other toes. It kind of looks like a blood blister to me. I don't think she was injured, BUT the rats split a sling they had (separated the fuzzy part of the sling from the material) and were burrowing in the middle. It is possible she got her toe caught on a string or something in that. (It has been removed from the cage.)

I've been keeping an eye on her, and she doesn't seem bothered by it. She still gets around just fine (climbs, jumps, runs around when out of her cage). While it hasn't gotten any worse, it also hasn't gotten any better. It has been around 2 weeks since I first noticed it. 

I can provide a picture later if it would be helpful - but any ideas on what it could be?

Thanks,
OF


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## Autumnrose

Does she put any pressure on it? Rats toes, like most rodents, are very fragile. Sometimes it's just a sprain or something and they get better by themselves, but if it's really not getting better you might want to take your rat to a vet that can deal with small animals.


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## originalfirefly

I apologize. I intended to post a pic and reply faster...it has been a crazy couple weeks for me.

ANYWAY...when I first posted this she did put pressure on her foot. It actually didn't seem to bother her at all. Just this past weekend I noticed her limping. She is also not putting weight on it (and was holding it up sometimes when standing). Sure enough part of her foot is now swelling (so it is getting worse).

I've made an appointment with a vet. It is the same place I take my dogs, but they said they have a vet that sees rats. Her appt is Thur.

I hope it isn't anything serious.


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## lilspaz68

Sounds like it could be infected now and travelling up her leg. Lets hope she just re-sprained it though.


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## originalfirefly

If it is infected, do they not have rat antibiotics? I would have made the appt for sooner, but the weather here is awful...and I don't think the rats would do well in -20 weather you know? (It is supposed to be better Thur.) I was also planning on taking both so that neither of them freaked out.


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## lilspaz68

originalfirefly said:


> If it is infected, do they not have rat antibiotics? I would have made the appt for sooner, but the weather here is awful...and I don't think the rats would do well in -20 weather you know? (It is supposed to be better Thur.) I was also planning on taking both so that neither of them freaked out.


Take both, most of us take companion rats in with the patient for comfort,

They don't necessarily have "rat antibiotics" LOL Most antibiotics are off-label use for rats but are used for many other animals or people. For eg, baytril is used for a lot of different animals, doxycycline as well... But yes they should be able to fix her up.


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## originalfirefly

Vet said she is fairly certain it is a tumor because it felt hard. She said it was rare for a tumor to form on the toe/foot like that, but it can happen. I was also told when tumors form they can happen very quickly. She also said there is a _small_ chance it IS an infection and left it up to me to try antibiotics. She was favoring tumor because it has been so long. If it was an infection, she said mostly likely my rat would have been chewing on the injury (she has not - she hasn't paid much attention to this thing on her foot at all) or at the very least gotten worse. (Other than spreading some - it has pretty much stayed the same.)

She said if it was a tumor then there pretty much was nothing they could do. She said the likelihood of Marshmallow surviving the surgery was very slim (due to stress and the fact they don't do well with amputated feet). So - she said we'd just wait it out and once the quality of life became poor they would recommend putting Marshmallow to sleep.

So - it seems to me that it couldn't possibly hurt anything to give the antibiotics a try. 

Oh - and she suggested putting a warm compress (i.e. soaking the rats foot in warm water for 3 minutes) daily to see if that would help. She said it would help blood flow and could help soften it up a bit.

She said a lot. I think I missed some things...but the bottom line was that it is most likely a tumor but I could try antibiotics if I wanted.

She also thought my rats were around 10 mo old. I got them in June, but they have grown very little in the time I've had them. I did get them from a pet store because in my area, there aren't rat breeders or even rat rescues. I looked first. So I don't really know exactly how old they are. I will say I'm disappointed. I know they have short life spans, but I thought I'd have at least a year.

I know it probably would help to get a picture...but I was curious what you would do?


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## lilspaz68

Antibiotics for sure...tumors on the toes/feet are exceedingly rare and it most likely is an infection.


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## originalfirefly

Alrighty. That makes sense and confirms what I was already thinking. Here are a couple pictures of her foot.











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## originalfirefly

We started Marshmallow on antibiotics. Her foot has only swelled up larger. In addition, her toe became discolored and *today* it appears that there is no toe anymore.

Is there any hope for her? At this point putting her to sleep seems the most humane thing to do?

Thanks!


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## lilspaz68

originalfirefly said:


> We started Marshmallow on antibiotics. Her foot has only swelled up larger. In addition, her toe became discolored and *today* it appears that there is no toe anymore.
> 
> Is there any hope for her? At this point putting her to sleep seems the most humane thing to do?
> 
> Thanks!


What are the antibiotics and how long has she been on them?


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## originalfirefly

It has been 2 weeks. The package says it is enrofloxin - 2 times daily for 10 days.


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## lilspaz68

originalfirefly said:


> It has been 2 weeks. The package says it is enrofloxin - 2 times daily for 10 days.


Can you take pics of it today?

If the toe died from lack of oxygen, it could wither and fall off, if the toe/foot is now so swollen, that it looks like the toe isn't there, you need anit-infammatories (metacam for pain and swelling would be best) and more abs. The toe might have to be amputated. Is she still eating/drinking etc? If so its not time to even consider pts. Have you soaked the foot in salty water to draw infection the surface etc? So much more can be done.


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## originalfirefly

Yeah I can take a picture today. I'll get that done.


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## originalfirefly

Oh - and she is still eating and drinking. She spends most of her time in the hammock, but I see her down in the bottom of the cage drinking too. I can tell it is really bothering her. She limps and while she does go up and down the cage, she doesn't do it unless she has too. (Food/water is in the bottom - hammock where she spends most of her time is at the top. I'd rearrange, but the water bottle won't fit up there. And Allie, her cage-mate, carries all the food and hides it in the bottom - so it doesn't matter where I put that.) It appears as though the toe is completely gone...no nub whatsoever and it was bleeding a very little bit.

We were soaking the foot for awhile in regular water - but I think my husband stopped that. Epson salt I assume? 

I have to wait for him to get home before I can take pictures. No way I can do it by myself.


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## lilspaz68

originalfirefly said:


> Oh - and she is still eating and drinking. She spends most of her time in the hammock, but I see her down in the bottom of the cage drinking too. I can tell it is really bothering her. She limps and while she does go up and down the cage, she doesn't do it unless she has too. (Food/water is in the bottom - hammock where she spends most of her time is at the top. I'd rearrange, but the water bottle won't fit up there. And Allie, her cage-mate, carries all the food and hides it in the bottom - so it doesn't matter where I put that.) It appears as though the toe is completely gone...no nub whatsoever and it was bleeding a very little bit.
> 
> We were soaking the foot for awhile in regular water - but I think my husband stopped that. Epson salt I assume?
> 
> I have to wait for him to get home before I can take pictures. No way I can do it by myself.


So the toe is gone? Ahhh good. Ratty did the amputation herself...good girl!!!! 

Can you get OTC pain meds for her? Best would be infant liquid ibuprofen (grape flavoured, dye-free Advil is much loved). 
Put a bowl of water near the hammock maybe, put soft foods like oatmeal or moistened baby cereal nearby too (no one can run and stash that!)


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## originalfirefly

Yep - toe appears to be completely gone. My husband mentioned he thought he saw the rats messing with it yesterday...so it is entirely possible they chewed it off. (Oi - that sounds gross just typing that!)

And I actually have infant Iburofren on hand...as I have an infant. What is the dosage?

I'll look at getting some oatmeal or baby cereal for her today, as well as a bowl to make the water more accessible.

Thanks so much for all your help! (And I promise to post pics...it will probably be several hours before I can - due to waiting for my husband to get home.  )


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## lilspaz68

awesome!!!

okay ibu...40 mg/ml? (thats normal)

can you give me a guesstimate on her weight?

Then I can give you a dosage

I dose ibu at 10-30 mg/kg but I can work out a dosage for you if you can give me those answers


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## originalfirefly

ml - and she is about 10 oz. That is what she weighed a few weeks ago when I took her to the vet - I don't think she has dropped any weight.


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## lilspaz68

originalfirefly said:


> ml - and she is about 10 oz. That is what she weighed a few weeks ago when I took her to the vet - I don't think she has dropped any weight.


didn't get the concentration but if it is 40 mg/ml...or 5 mg/200 ml (same thing) and she weighs 283 grams you would give her .11 cc/ml every 4-8 hours as needed. I gave her halfway between the dosages at 15 mg/kg.


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## smesyna

50mg/200 ml. Obviously just a typo but in case it confused anyone that's what lilspaz meant.


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## lilspaz68

smesyna said:


> 50mg/200 ml. Obviously just a typo but in case it confused anyone that's what lilspaz meant.


Actually no...I did mean 5 mg/200 ml...divide the 5 into 200 and you get 40 mg/ml. That's what's usually on the bottle.

the other way would be only 4 mg/ml...can you imagine trying to get that much ibu into one itty bitty rat?


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## smesyna

But just 5mg per 200 ml would mean to get just 5mg of meds into the rat you'd have to give 200 ml.

I see now though, it would have to be 200*mg* per 5*ml*.


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## lilspaz68

smesyna said:


> But just 5mg per 200 ml would mean to get just 5mg of meds into the rat you'd have to give 200 ml.
> 
> I see now though, it would have to be 200*mg* per 5*ml*.


HAHAHA yes you're right, I was pre-coffee...I just had it backwards


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## originalfirefly

Thanks for the dosage! I actually had Tylenol and NOT Ibuprofen. Good gravy - I always have the stuff on hand but not today. I'm going to get it tomorrow first thing. (Unfortunately, I didn't make it to the store today.)

In other news - today was cage cleaning day. Marshmallow was all over the place and in good spirits. What an amazing little rat. I told my husband we shouldn't give up on her if for not other reason because she is so spirited. I normally let 'em run around on the couch while we clean their cage. But with her foot, I didn't want to let her with her foot. So I put her in the floor under a laundry basket. She chewed through it in about 2 minutes and was running around everywhere. So one of us had to hold her the entire time. (Easier said than done...I'm actually allergic to the little boogers!)

Here are pictures of her foot - best I could get on a squiggly rat. These pictures are definitely not for the faint of heart. 










On THIS picture - it sorta appears like a nub might be present? But when viewing it normally, it simply doesn't look like it. There is actually a hole in that same area of her foot.









Again, in the middle of the black sport where the white-ish shiny part is actually a hole.


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## Kinsey

Good pictures of it, especially on a wiggler.

I don't know what to say, I havn't got a lot of experience with something of this nature, and without seeing it in person don't have much advice, other than to ask what the yellow swelling feels like. It looks almost abscessed in one photo. I could be wrong and your descriptions seem to say it is not an abscess, but a gentle compress won't hurt anything either way.

Nevermind, actually, but you could still try.. I saw that you were soaking it in water. Good idea, same concept as a warm compress. good luck with her, that toe is definitly gone, she must have chewed it off.


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## lilspaz68

Get that ibu into her ASAP! If the swelling doesn't come down significantly then she needs antibiotics for infection. If you can put her on soft bedding like fleece or carefresh, no YN or aspen or something sharp. Let her run if she wants to, if the foot hurts too much she won't use it much, but she needs to run.


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## originalfirefly

I thought I'd provide a little update.

I have been giving her Ibuprofen and the antibiotics (geez they gave us a lot...I still have half a bottle left!), soaking her foot etc.

It just continues to grow. Her other toes are beginning to swell and the black parts on her foot are getting larger. She still gets around her cage very well and for having such a horrid looking foot is quite fast still when she runs around in the open. (I wouldn't say as fast as she used to be...but still pretty fast!)

So...I know tumors on feet are extremely rare...but is it a possibility that this is in fact a tumor? Since it seems to continue to grow?


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## toyxxhearts

Are there any other vets in your area that you can contact and see if they have experience with rats? I don't have a lot of experience with anything like this, but if it were me I believe I would try to get a second opinion on what is causing the problem from a vet. Hopefully something works and she can get back to normal soon!


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## begoodtoanimals

This rat must be suffering a lot. I would put her down. They don't cry out when it hurts. They are prey animals so that are wired to remain quiet, no matter the pain.


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## Kinsey

She is on pain meds and so is likely not in much pain, begoodtoanimals.

I agree, get a second opinion. You may be looking at amputation, but don't quote me on that.


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## Jaguar

um? amputation is a far more viable option than having the rat euthanised... they adjust VERY well to the lack of limb. she still obviously has a very strong will to live, it's not time yet. :-\


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## Kiko

Do rats really not squeak from pain?

My rat curly after his eye was wounded was crying and squeaking in the hammock for a while before i got him to the vet, was it fear? 


And yes I agree, an amputation is a better alternative if she is maintaining her health.


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## originalfirefly

We had Marshmallow put to sleep today.

I'm very very sad about it, but she took a turn for the worse and was not doing well at all. (She would barely take the meds we were giving her. Wasn't lifting her head. It was crazy - the day before she was climbing all over the cage!) So after much discussion, we decided it would be best since she was so miserable.

We live in a small town where rats aren't very popular. So vet expertise is at a minimum. The one we went too was the most highly recommended one in town. Today she did say she was certain it was a tumor and she was certain that Marshmallow would not survive a surgery...especially now that she was so weak.

Our family is heart broken. :'-( We didn't have her for very long. I thought I'd include a picture of her...as a memorial. (After all - all you've ever seen is her foot! ) (She had black eyes - just the flash making them look black in this picture.)


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## Kiko

I am SO sorry for your loss *hugs*

You did so much for her, more then many people, and you should be applauded for that.
She was a very pretty rat, and now she is at the rainbow bridge, with a healthy foot this time 

You should post a memorial for her at the Rainbow Bridge section <3


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## begoodtoanimals

It is so sad when they have to leave and especially having to make the decision for them.
I think you did the best you could do for her. Wish they would live as long as dogs. Good luck.


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