# Traumatized by rat biting me



## Fabio (Apr 30, 2014)

A few days ago, I went to one last Petsmart in the area who still had rats. All Petcos and Petsmarts stopped selling rats in January so I have no place to get rats except feeder stores. Well anyways, I was looking at a large male rat in Petsmart and I play rough with MY rats but know to respect new rats that are not mine. I did the scooping method and petted gently and I got bit so bad that the blood wouldn't stop flowing for like half an hour and I bled all over the store.... lol. They told me the rat was just playing with little girls and never bit them... Well anyways, I had NEVER had a rat that bit me before and that got me scared for my own rats.

I own 12 rats, both male and female. I love them dearly and all of them know my hand is not food. They bite gently, but retract right when they can tell it's my fingers and have never had a problem with a nippy rat. The females are average size, but what I am scared of is my males. I have HUGE males with some being 1 1/2 to close to 2 pounds. The biggest, heaviest male is the one that loves scritches the most and I scritch him pretty good and play rough with him. I also try to scoop them but sometimes love to just pick them up from above to which they do not mind at all. I know never to do this with rats I don't know. And me picking my rats up like this during their free range time has no problems either. And there are countless times when I reach inside their pods/sacks and scratch them randomly. They have never bitten me out of fear no matter how surprised they are when I pick them up suddenly or how rough I play with them.

So my question is that, deep down I know they are still animals with instincts and while my rats would never bite me now, could their behavior possibly change later on in life to become biters? Has anyone seen this? And with rats, is the adage, once a biter always a biter, true? Even if you train a rat well after it has bitten you, would there still be some fear that it could bite again in the future?

Anything you tell yourself to get over this? Now I am afraid that my males could change and bite me, even though I know they wouldn't.


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## courtney+ella (Jan 7, 2014)

You need to have trust in your rats, they love and adore you and you need to have faith that they won't do that to you.You are there pack leader they respect you to much to do that to you.They love and trust you, you should trust them too 😊


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

It isn't uncommon with pet store rats to be biters. It could be bad genetics or just total lack of socialization. Nothing to do with your own rats, but I understand your fear. I have never been bitten because all my rats came very loving and socialized by their breeder. I wouldn't worry about your rats. Some make rats become more aggressive after age 6 months if not neutered but usually they never bite their human(s). Pituitary tumor can akso make a rat more aggressive later on, but rare. It must have been quite traumatizing though.


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## TheRatAttack (Mar 29, 2016)

I had this problem, and I am still getting over it. One of my male rats was EXTREMELY fear aggressive, and it took a long time before I could reach into the cage without getting attacked. I have we scars on my hands from being bitten, one of my current girls test bites a lot, and even though I know that she would not hurt me, it is still very scary for me. Even if you are now scared to get bit, the most important thing is to hold all of your rats, you almost have to retrain yourself, and make yourself believe that most rats will not bite. I am still in the process of 'recovering' from being attacked so much, but it does get better.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

TheRatAttack said:


> I had this problem, and I am still getting over it. One of my male rats was EXTREMELY fear aggressive, and it took a long time before I could reach into the cage without getting attacked. I have we scars on my hands from being bitten, one of my current girls test bites a lot, and even though I know that she would not hurt me, it is still very scary for me. Even if you are now scared to get bit, the most important thing is to hold all of your rats, you almost have to retrain yourself, and make yourself believe that most rats will not bite. I am still in the process of 'recovering' from being attacked so much, but it does get better.


Where did you get your rats from? This is not what pet rats are supposed to be at all. Sorry for all the bites, sounds horrible.


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## TheRatAttack (Mar 29, 2016)

Gribouilli said:


> Where did you get your rats from? This is not what pet rats are supposed to be at all. Sorry for all the bites, sounds horrible.


They boys were rescues.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

TheRatAttack said:


> They boys were rescues.


Thanks for rescuing them usually rat rescues work with their rats so nothing like that happens. They don't have always the time though or those rats might have come from a horrible place like a pet store or a previous owner who abused them. Poor ratties. I hope it gets better.


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

Pet shop rats tend to come from farms where they breed in draws without much human contact. Combine that with being left in a store for a quater of its life any large petstore rat would be a prime case for biting. Now combine that with your nervousness to pick it up because it's a unknown rat to you and also the possible smell of your own rats still on you. This makes for a stressful situation in a busy loud store for a un socialised animal which will lead to bites. That is very differen't to your own rats. The best advice I can give is to stay cool calm and confident when handling and they will not feel you are a threat. I think its very rare indeed for a well adjusted rat to suddenly just change on you without giving you a fair amount of warnings first.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

First, I would like to begin by saying that most biting rats can be fixed through proper socialization. My extreme immersion method has actually had excellent results. But, this can be a rather unpleasant and hazardous procedure. I don't recommend it for the faint of heart, young people or new rat owners in general. Most rat owners are better off avoiding problem rats.


For the most part, both morally and ethically I like to support rescues. It's nice to believe that experienced and caring people are dedicating many hours to properly socializing rats that have been abused and neglected before sending them out to good forever homes. Sadly, in some cases, people turn in biting rats that they can't handle and understaffed rescues might not have the time to fix them, or even properly diagnose them before passing them on to a new home. So, when you're adopting an older rat from a rescue, depending on the rescue, there is a chance that you can wind up with a problem rat.


For the most part, I don't believe that anyone intentionally breeds aggressive or biting rats. Even people who own or work in rat mills don't want to get bitten. And people who own expensive snakes also don't want to get bitten or have their snakes injured by aggressive rats. That said, all rats require socialization in order to be friendly and safe to handle. Neither rat mills or pet shops are likely to be good places for a rat to be properly socialized.


I think it's fair to say that anyone who adopts a rat from a pet shop or even certain rescues should expect to do most of the socialization with their new rats when they get them home. It really is important to get to know your new rats before you adopt them.


A couple of years ago, I was in a big box pet shop and I decided to do a little demonstration for the staff and a few customers that were there. I reached into the plastic cube they had their rats in and as I moved my hand around I instantly recognized one that was friendly and inquisitive. I scooped him up, handled him for a couple minutes then walked him around the store on my shoulder. He was a perfect pet that any rat owner could handle and be proud of. Likewise, there was another rat in the cage that assumed an aggressive posture and most likely would've bitten me if I tried to scoop him up. Naturally I didn't, he would've ruined my demonstration. Most of the rats in the cage, were somewhere in the middle, neither friendly nor aggressive. For the most part, they probably didn't bite, but there is also no way that they would've ridden around on my shoulder and a pet shop surrounded by strangers.


There is a certain irony involved when you consider the fact that people with a lot of experience, who are better at socializing rats, are also better at avoiding rats that need extensive socialization. The people most likely to adopt screwed up and biting rats are the people least likely to be able to handle and fix them.


Rats that are properly socialized and handled rarely become aggressive towards their humans. Mostly it happens when people neglect or abuse their rats or fail to maintain proper social order. Being a rat parent is similar to being a human parent. We've all seen what happens when human parents let their kids get out of control. A good parent doesn't need to be overbearing or a disciplinarian, but to one degree or another, they have to take the lead and be in charge. The same is true of rat parents.


I am a particularly permissive rat parent. Our rats get away with things most rats only dream of. But, they know I have my limits and biting is way over the line.


Pituitary tumors or brain tumors can cause normal rats to become aggressive and bite. These cases are very rare. Likely anyone who's been in the fancy for a long time has heard of at least one case. But it's important to remember that these cases are so extreme that their stories get retold for years. It's the kind of thing that nobody ever forgets. Therefore someone in Idaho might be retelling a story they heard from someone in Wisconsin that actually happened in California years ago.


Being bitten by a rat is traumatic and painful but it does happen. Getting mugged is likewise traumatic and can be even more painful. Every time we leave our homes we expose ourselves to people who might hurt us, but we can't live in fear or terror of everyone that we come into contact with. Our friends and coworkers and family members aren't likely to rob and beat us. For the most part, even the strangers that we meet are more likely to be friendly or indifferent than hostile. I think we all know that other people can hurt us and that rats can bite us, but we have to manage our fears in order to maintain healthy relationships with our human and furry friends. Naturally, we have to trust certain humans more than others, likewise I think it's fair to say that we can trust certain rats more than others too.


It will take a little bit of time, but the trauma will wear off and your relationship with your rats will go back to normal.


Best luck.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

All five of my rats are either feeder bin rats or pet store rats. I've only been bit once when I scared the bejesus out of one of them! They are all great pets. Two of them ran to my shoulder and gave me kisses right out of the feeder bin. Anga rode around on my shoulder at the pet store. Pebbles jumped up on my shoulder within seconds of getting her out of the box at home. Two of them decided I was okay and decided to give me affection after about one week. Only one has taken a significant amount of time to socialize. But even she has become friendly and affectionate with me. 

All Fancy Rats descended from the same Norwegian rats bred in the early 17th century. They began to be bred as pets when James Black and another provider of rats bred for blood sport noticed unusual tendencies in the Norwegian rats. First, they noticed the different coloring. Second, they noticed an unusual friendliness and lack of fear for humans. These are the rats that began to bred as pets 200 years ago.

It is believed by behaviorists and geneticists that the difference between feeder/pet store rats and breeder rats is due to socialization rather than genetics. The same as a feral cat vs a pet cat. They are the same genetically. The only difference is socialization. The feral cat can be socialized and make great pets. I have done this many times myself.


It is also known that many of rats used to breed feeder rats are themselves provided by or even in some cases sold by the sold by the same who breed rats as pets. These rats are culled by breeders because they lack the characteristics the breeders are selecting for. Behavior is not necessarily the reason that rat is being selected out of the line. Often times breeders are selecting for color. It makes financial sense to get a return on the undesirable rat by selling it as a feeder thereby bringing in money to support their hobby.

Friendly behavior is a naturally occurring characteristic of the _undomesticated_ Norway rat that our fancy originated from. An aggressive rat is no more likely to come from a feeder bin than from the breeder of pet rats. 

This is a _scientific fact_. It also an easily _observable fact _given how many pet rats come from feeders and pet stores. If pet store rats and feeder rats didn't make good pets, people wouldn't buy them and pet stores wouldn't sell them.


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## Fraido (Oct 1, 2014)

In my 2 years working in the same building as a rat mill, I have spent a lot of time giving the rats as much love as I can, they are deserving of it. These rats crave attention, even though they are fearful and nervous of the human hand, after all they have every right to be.

I have been bitten one time. I shove my hands in these rats' bins daily, these neglected and poorly treated rats, and I have only been bitten once in two years. Even the biggest, toughest looking males will come to my hand for affection, though of course they are nervous, and they have every reason to retreat when they hear a scary sound or quick movement.

Have confidence in your babies, they love you, they trust you, trust them.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

Another thing to consider about feeders and pet store rats is that employees routinely reach into the cage to pull them out. The feeder rats were never 'scooped out'. Those rats were rudely grabbed. 

If pet store employees were likely to get bit, the stores would be putting themselves at risk for law suits by knowingly allowing employees to get bit by an unsocialized rat. 

The last thing a business wants is to have OSHA coming around asking questions.

Again, it comes down to money.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

???"An aggressive rat is no more likely to come from a feeder bin than from the breeder of pet rats."

WRONG, an aggressive rat is waaaaaaay more likely to come from a feeder bin than from the breeder of pet rats!. Breeders stop breeding the rats that produce aggressive offsprings, feeder bin rats are bred over and over again without any consideration for their temperament, aggressiveness, or health.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

According to *scientists*, feeder/pet store rats have no more or less of a tendency, *genetically*, to be aggressive. It is generally agreed among behaviorists the primary difference between feeder/pet store rats and breeder rats is nothing more than socialization.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

catty-ratty said:


> According to *scientists*, feeder/pet store rats have no more or less of a tendency, *genetically*, to be aggressive. It is generally agreed among behaviorists the primary difference between feeder/pet store rats and breeder rats is nothing more than socialization.


AND.....feeder rats have not being socialized, pet rats from good breeders have. Exactly my point. Furthermore, aggressiveness is environmental but has also genetic components. It is true for every species, including us. So how on earth would that not be true for rats?


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

What scientists? Please provide the scientific article reference. A simple Google search will provide plenty of references that aggressiveness has genetic components.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

My MA is in biospychology so I know about environment and genetics.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

I will so this as soon as a I can. Probably not until tomorrow though.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

Gribouilli said:


> My MA is in biospychology so I know about environment and genetics.


I guess you should know where to find the abstracts then.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

ok. But I can already say that if such an article exists, it is misleading at best. Aggressiveness has genetic components in every species I ever studied. So I'm pretty confident that out all the species in the world, rats are no exception. Oh wait...specific rat strains are used to study aggression in labs. Those aggressive rats are then given drugs to see if they can be mellowed down.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

Gribouilli said:


> ... I can already say that if such an article exists, it is misleading at best...........


_"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

_-Herbert Spencer


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

catty-ratty said:


> _"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."_-Herbert Spencer


Well unless rats are the only animal immune to genetic aggressiveness in the whole wide world and somehow I haven't read about it during my MA in biospychology, I stand by what I said.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

It was also proven that the world was flat.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

By the way, I did INVESTIGATE. It is called getting a degree. So no contempt on my side.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

catty-ratty said:


> It was also proven that the world was flat.


Again.........

The one thing that will probably never change about science is that it is always improving on previous theories.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

catty-ratty said:


> Again.........The one thing that will probably never change about science is that it is always improving on previous theories.


Yes, that is how science works. No one is disputing that. Well, let see the one article that contradicts the hundred of thousands of scientific articles that were published in scientific journals after being reviewed by peers (aka people with PhDs). Until then there is no point in continuing this conversation.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

I don't think this thread is the appropriate place to have this discussion. Therefor, I'm going to refrain from commenting further and will unsubscribe from it. 

I'm here to care for my rats rather than hold ongoing debates. I prefer not to allow myself to get side tracked by one.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

Sure. However you are the person who asserted something wrong. I had to correct it before some people got the wrong impression that genetics don't influence behavior in general and aggressiveness in particular. Genetics and environment (socialization) both influence the end result. I leave it to people to do their own research on aggression and genetics.


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

Genetics plays a HUGE role in temperament. I would say there is huge proof out there in the breeder community. I think the one thing breeders heavily agree on is that. More so than even breeding for health!

I know some amazing breeders with the very best lines, they NEVER handle their babies. These babies are not being cuddled or loved or played with. They are not being "taught" to be calm or friendly. 
These breeders choose the babies to keep by doing this so it removes any outside influence. They have just the sweetest calm rats.

I personally think environment plays some role but by far genetics is the most important factor.

It is also important to remember it is just not two sides either aggressive or friendly. There is a whole bunch of different levels to it. 

For example myself I thought I had the sweetest rats ever when I first got rats. They had lovely temperaments. But then I met my first rat from a good breeder line and omg. I didn't know what friendly was. 
How many posts do we see where someone brings their new rats home and they are a bit shy. Take my new baby I got not that long ago from a breeder. The very first day I got him, infact in the first minutes I got him, he was outgoing, friendly with everyone, curious, not fearful or anxious in any shape. He was met with a new home, new smells, dogs/cats & kids and he was just like whatever super happy & friendly!

The rats I breed, biting is not in their vocab even lol 

It is also important to note that not all breeders are the same. Some are better than others. Some do breed for temperament others do not really. 
And it goes the same for feeder breeders. While there are alot of bad ones, there are good ones too. They want calmer rats, cull often which removes any aggressive rats from the gene pool, and they also generally want calm rats if they feed so their animals are not injured.

I would say mills & store suppliers tend to be the worst from my experience. Because they are only selecting for color & mass breeding. Yeah they do not want a rat that is going to chew your face off but they don't put in any effort to make it an amazing rat either. It is friendly enough.

And if you do believe in more than just genetics playing a role, there is a lovely scientific study on momma rats licking their babies. A mom that is less anxious will lick her babies more often, taking better care of them. This activates genes in the babies which play a MAJOR role in their temperament and even health! Which moms are going to be calmer? A well loved, well cared for mom in a responsible loving breeder environment? Or a mom that is overbred in a mill and possibly neglected definitely not loved?

Seriously clicky the link you can be a mommy rat and lick your baby lol http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/epigenetics/rats/

And responsible good breeders are not just picking pretty colors to make $$, we breed to better our lines. A beautiful rat that bites is not a great rat. No one wants that. And very very very few breeders make any kind of profit lol

In one of the breeder groups I was in we were just discussing maternal aggression - a mom rat that is calm vs a mom that will bite you. Like almost every breeder agrees that is a huge no no and if that rat bit, she is culled and the line ended. When people say breeder rats, no one means a BYB or some unethical crappy whatever. People mean legit responsible breeders who know what they are doing and work to better lines. 



As for the main topic, I wouldn't worry. Any unknown animal can sometimes bite you. I wouldn't go petting strange dogs lol. The rat may have smelled your rats on you or any other smell and got freaked out. I have been bit once really really bad. And yeah it was scary! There is no reason to think any of your rats will turn on you  It prob will take some time to get it out of your head.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

There's something particularly ironic with our rat Bunny having babies tonight... She comes from one of those lines that is supposedly bred for excellent temperament and my daughter was petting her as she gave birth... in light of the rest of my comment.

First of all, there's a certain amount of truth that rats temperament has certain genetic elements. But it's not as true or as important as one might imagine. A study done years ago produced two groups of mice. A smart group and a stupid group. It could not be replicated. It turned out that the stupid mice would not run the maze or perform their tasks when the elevator in the building was moving, which was most of the time. When both groups were moved to a lab without an elevator both performed the same. So while intelligence might not be a genetic trait of a particular group of mice, sensitivity to movement, vibration or noise most certainly is.

Someone here trained a deaf true shoulder rat... I suppose no one was surprised that it wasn't spooked by loud noises.

We can site studies back and fourth... certain traits are in fact genetic while with rats a lot has to do with socialization. As we don't have two groups of rats we are comparing and as the terms personality and temperament are sort of vague at best, it is possible to find certain rats in feeder bins that have better personalities and temperaments than some rats bred by certain hobby breeders...

As to socialization... I believe this is way more important than most people think. We had a part wild rat, that actually lived outdoors for 5 months before coming home for winter. She was aggressive... during playtime she would lunge at my face and mock bite my nose several times before I could swat her of... and she was vicious. she shredded my neighbors hand. Even the feral cats in the neighborhood stayed out of our back yard while she lived outdoors. She would fling herself into the air and snap and slash like the Tasmanian devil and she even took a chunk out of my hand during a disagreement. She was a really nasty piece of work... But she was the sweetest rat you could imagine with my then 5 year old daughter, my daughter played rat toss with her and stretch the rat and stuff the rat into doll clothes... and as long as I didn't get her hyper-excited she was fine with me often napping in my lap. She did puncture her roommate's throat, but that was just once... and it settled the 'who's in charge argument'. After that the two got along great.

For a vicious rat, she actually made a great friend and family member because she was well socialized and pack bonded to us. Proper socialization, is in my opinion, much more important than genetics. Some people might call it 50-50 and other's may see it the other way around... 

I always adopted feeder bin rats very young at 2 to 3 weeks old... first they weren't pregnant and second, it didn't give the rat mill or the pet shop time to screw them up. It takes a lot of time to properly socialize a very young pup, you more or less have to be it's mom and be with it almost 24X7, but you really do get well bonded and socialized rats. 

To the question as to whether breeder rats or feeder rats or store rats make the best furry friends. The answer is both or all three. At three weeks old, it's a coin toss. If you raise and socialize your pup properly, even a naturally vicious rat can become a best furry friend to you and your family. With older rats, a pre-socialized rat will give you a great head start, and there aren't many pre-socialized rats in feeder bins and pet shops don't have the greatest reputation for pre-socializing their rats. Good hobby breeders are more likely to have older rats that are better socialized, but this isn't always the case either as breeders are a mixed bag and some older pet shop rats I've met were absolutely sweet and friendly. 

So my answer is that if you have the time and energy to socialize a pup, you can't really go too far wrong regardless of where you find it... With older rats, those that are actually pre-socialized by a good breeder are your best statistical bet. But great rats are where you find them. Fuzzy Rat was the most amazing rat I've ever known and even in a feeder bin at 3 weeks old she followed my daughter's hand around after the first time she picked her up. In the end, this question boils down to something like are you more likely to find a better husband in Seattle or New York City or are you going to find a prettier wife in California or Columbia? These kinds of questions can be debated to death, but the perfect spouse for you might be in your own home town right now and you might not even live in any of the places I mentioned.

I didn't mention rescues, because they vary from awful to excellent... some perfect pups are born there and some real twisted nightmares get turned in by people who have abused and neglected them, that may not get fixed before they are re-homed... It just isn't fair to lump them into a single group.

Statistics aside a great rat is where you find it.


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## RatAtat2693 (Jan 13, 2016)

Honestly, working with my rescue's biters has made me, though a little skittish, about a thousand times more appreciative of my boys.

You really do have to trust them though, and handling my sweet, tame, blubber boys first has made it easy to be calm around the less than endearing rehab girls.

But that's just my experience. You can't let one (or three) rat(s) ruin your perspective of the tons of sweet squish faces out there.

And while it can be traumatic, remember that the fingers are extremely vascular, and even tiny cuts will bleed everywhere. >¬>


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## Drakmanka (Jul 27, 2015)

It's possible that the rat you handled was sick of being handled and overreacted, or perhaps doesn't like certain people. Perhaps he didn't see the little girls as worrisome, but did see you as a problem for *some* reason.

Or maybe he was just playing REALLY rough.
My first rat and I would get into some seriously rough play sessions, and one time he got overly carried away and bit me to about the same extreme as what you described your bite. I still have the scar, seven years later. It happened when I had a friend over and she says that the whole time I was in the bathroom trying to get the bleeding to stop, he sat in one place with a mortified look on his face as he realized he had hurt me. As soon as I returned with my patched-up finger, he rushed to me, desperate for reassurance that everything was okay. Sometimes they just get carried away and forget that our skin is much more fragile than theirs.


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