# Rat bit off another rat's toe



## Tibbs87 (Dec 25, 2011)

Let me first say that a few days ago, my youngest rat, Bear, managed to lacerate his toe. I'm not sure how it happened. Bear has a cage mate named Rusty. Rusty is not aggressive at all, so I seriously doubt Rusty bit Bear's toe. After a trip to the vet and a cortisone shot for Bear, I was sent home with some antibiotics. I have an aggressive male rat, Gus in another cage. He isn't aggressive with people. Quite the opposite...but he attacks any rat besides his cage mate. Gus has never drawn blood before.

Bear was out for his free range tonight and somehow got on top of Gus's cage. All I heard was Bear screaming and by the time I got to the cage, half of Bear's toe was gone. Gus is known to bite other rats and I'm still shocked/riddled with guilt, mostly because I looked away for a second and suddenly Bear was on top of Gus's cage. After a trip to the ER vet, Bear is back home now and on pain meds and continues Baytril. The ER vet said the wound will heal on its own. I have talked with my regular vet several times about neutering Gus and now I'm going to have to go through with it. I've already talked with people on the forum about it and it sounds like the best and only viable option at this point. Believe me, it's not something I consider lightly. I've talked with my vet many times about it. It sounds dangerous, not only during the surgery but after, as rats will rip their stitches out. The vet said he would likely have to leave the wound open, which presents its own set of problems, which I'd imagine could be potentially life-threatening.

I'm angry, remorseful and guilt-stricken all at once. Bear endured a good amount of trauma tonight, which could have been avoided if I was paying closer attention and if I had neutered Gus sooner. But enough about that...just asking for people's thoughts/advice/input.


----------



## Malcolmratdad (Mar 29, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear about Bear's injury. If it helps, it should heal just fine and he shouldn't have any trouble getting around; my girl Rosie is missing half of a back toe due to an injury before she was seized from her previous owner for cruelty. It sounds like neutering might be what's best for Gus, especially if he's able to get along with his rat buddies afteerwards. Wish you all the best of luck man.


----------



## Arashi (Feb 4, 2012)

Sorry to hear about that, I hope that /bear will make a quick recovery. All the best to you and your rats.

We all make mistakes, take this as an opportunity to learn, and forgive yourself, I can see that you really care for your rats.


----------



## Babs (Jan 26, 2012)

That's a shame. You shouldn't feel too guilty about it, though. Things like that just happen sometimes. Even parents will take one eye off their kids and next of all there's been a fall or a bump on the head - such is life. Give Bear lots of huggles to help him with his trauma, and if he'll tolerate it, it can help to put about an inch of salt water in a bath and get him to walk around in it. I've had a male who lost a toe in a fight before, and he got over it fine with a couple of salt bath walks and TLC.


----------



## RatzRUs (Feb 5, 2012)

I'm so sorry....I had the same kinda thing happen too me...I was trying to do spot cleaning had Peanut on the bed and Midnight was on the floor free roaming when he suddenly got on the bed and scuffled with Peanut left a huge gash in Peanuts side... I felt horrible


----------



## SamIAm (Feb 22, 2012)

I've had the same problem when I was trying to introduce a new rat to my girl. Jolene was not happy at all she attacked the rat, freaked me out. The rat lost a toe poor thing but recovered quickly. Jolene was never the same she started peeing on all her stuff..gross. Your rat will be ok though they are very adaptable. I'm sure you won't let it happy again. Wish your rat a quick recovery.


----------



## Tibbs87 (Dec 25, 2011)

Thanks, everyone. Good to know that others have faced similar issues. I'll try not to guilt myself too much about it and will be neutering Gus asap. I'll also be sure that Bear/Rusty are nowhere near Gus during their free roam.


----------



## tm22 (Mar 19, 2012)

:O Oh my goshh!!!! So super sorry. Poor little guy, does sound like a awful night!! But you're doing much more then the average person, you knew Gus was aggressive so you put him in another cage, and you took Bear to the vet when he needed it. Most of these rats end up in tiny cages with 10 year-olds that don't clean the cage, or forget about them, and they never get proper care. You can only prevent so much. :/ They're far better off with you then anyone else.


----------



## tifanyk (Mar 30, 2012)

Hey aww so sad to hear about the babies toe. I actually have a rat now that is missing 2 fingers from another aggressive rat so I know how sad you must feel.

Is gus an older rat? If so neutering could be dangerous.. have you tried everything? I have two rats a dad (splinter) and brother (kramer) and I got another rat (peter pan) from a rescue that I had a hard time introducing them. Kramer has always been a little feisty and it's just his personality. Rats are extremely territorial and some get over it and function well with cagemates, some are just more territorial than other and even neutering wont help, its like humans, we all have different personalities. When I brought peterpan home and tried to introduce him to the boys, kramer would not accept him. He was very protective over splinter and his cage/play area. 

I got them to successfully live together by learning how to introduce them properly. (introducing isnt just for new rats, they could live together for years and just all the sudden not like eachother and you can reintroduce them like this) First, never introduce them in a cage or a familiar area. You need to take them to a room they both have never been before. I used my bathtub. Put down a towel or close off a small space in a room. Dab some vanilla extract on all of the rats, on the back of the neck in between the shoulder blades to mask the scent. Put their favorite fruit or food in the bathtub (rats bond over food-if they eat together youre almost guaranteed they will bond) and put the smaller, new rat in first, or in this case, bear and rusty. Give them a minute to check it out and get used to the space so they have the upper hand. Put gus in and monitor them the entire time. They will do the usual fighting and they might fight a little but as long as theres no blood keep them in the tub. You'll want at least 30 minutes. If it doesn't work out the first time and the introduction is bad (blood or too aggressive) don't give up, sometimes it takes 6 or more tries to successfully introduce them. If they are ok together, I would return them to separate cages and move the cages closer together, but not close enough to reach out and hurt eachother! just so they get used to eachothers smells. The next day do the bathtub thing again. If they get along you can choose to continue this a couple more days, or introduce them into the main cage. You'll need to wash the cage and remove all bedding, put clean bedding, food and water and hammocks. Put the two rats in first and add gus after a minute. Watch them closely. They will probably fight a little but should be fine. 

I'm going through the same thing with my rats again. They lived together for 6 months no problem, just a little fighting. Recently they just will not get a long. Kramer really hurt peter pan so i had to separate them into separate cages. So splinter and kramer are in the bottom and peterpan is alone in top. They both seem to like the arrangement actually. Sometimes Kramer likes to be alone so I let him have his space with a separate cage. He is just a cranky older rat and has had a hard life as a lab rat so I think it's natural he isn't always in the best mood to tolerate a younger, hyper rat always trying to play. I'm going to try reintroducing them so I can have them all in the same cage again, but if it doesn't work, I will just make sure all get enough love and attention from me that they don't get lonely in separate cages. Also, never give up.. if you try hard enough and research you can find a way to reintroduce them properly. 

Just a thought. Could be a good idea to try before going through with neutering, you never know, maybe your solution is simple?

All the best


----------



## Tibbs87 (Dec 25, 2011)

tm22 said:


> :O Oh my goshh!!!! So super sorry. Poor little guy, does sound like a awful night!! But you're doing much more then the average person, you knew Gus was aggressive so you put him in another cage, and you took Bear to the vet when he needed it. Most of these rats end up in tiny cages with 10 year-olds that don't clean the cage, or forget about them, and they never get proper care. You can only prevent so much. :/ They're far better off with you then anyone else.


 Thanks, I appreciate that. On a happier note, Bear seems to be getting along fine. He's had his first two doses of pain killers and antibiotics. He's favoring one foot a little, but is behaving normally (climbing up the cage, sniffing me, playing with his cage mate). I'm glad it didn't traumatize him!


----------



## Tibbs87 (Dec 25, 2011)

tifanyk said:


> Hey aww so sad to hear about the babies toe. I actually have a rat now that is missing 2 fingers from another aggressive rat so I know how sad you must feel.
> 
> Is gus an older rat? If so neutering could be dangerous.. have you tried everything? I have two rats a dad (splinter) and brother (kramer) and I got another rat (peter pan) from a rescue that I had a hard time introducing them. Kramer has always been a little feisty and it's just his personality. Rats are extremely territorial and some get over it and function well with cagemates, some are just more territorial than other and even neutering wont help, its like humans, we all have different personalities. When I brought peterpan home and tried to introduce him to the boys, kramer would not accept him. He was very protective over splinter and his cage/play area.
> 
> ...


 Hmmmm...yes maybe I'll give that a shot. My first thought is that Gus may take off another toe or worse. I know neutering isn't always 100% successful and that some rats are just more territorial or what have you. I'll weigh your advice carefully and will also consult with my vet. Thanks!


----------



## RatzRUs (Feb 5, 2012)

I am glad he is doing so much better  try a tad bit of Neosporian it works wonders its helped me through a lot on peanut


----------



## RatzRUs (Feb 5, 2012)

But don't forget too not let him lick it for 20 seconds


----------



## 1a1a (May 6, 2011)

I'd be interested to see the results of a poll on neutering success/complications/didn't work. I think these cases where it doesn't calm the rat would be pretty thin on the ground. 

When I had several sets of rats not yet properly introduced, the free ranging rats would always go and visit the caged ones (with hostilities all 'round). Bear is lucky it was a toe me thinks. I'm glad he's perking up


----------



## tifanyk (Mar 30, 2012)

No problem. Make sure you learn all the facts before deciding to go through with it. Neutering a rat doesn't necessarily decrease aggression. There are a lot of other factors that need to be considered when dealing with aggression not just hormones. Also, once a male is neutered the hierarchy is replaced by another rat that isn't neutered, that rat will become more aggressive so you might still have a problem. If you do your research there seems to be a lot more negative than positive, but definitely do your research and find out for yourself. The best thing you can do for your little guys is to be patient and try everything you can to reintroduce them properly. Also, handling Gus as much as possible will help his aggression. I'm currently working on this with mine and it seems to be helping. Hold him and pet him for 15 minutes a day, don't let him get away, even if he hates it. Rats who have lots of love tend to be calmer towards other rats  Neutering is very stressful for a rat so you should do everything you can to avoid this if possible. 

Don't worry about him taking off another toe, have a towel or a glove at hand and be ready to separate them if it gets bad. They will fight some but they won't have all the aggression they would if they are fighting over the territory of cages. Bathtub will lessen the aggression because they are on equal grounds and in an unfamiliar place. Try a food that smells good, like freshly cooked rice, the smell will help distract them from each other.. Just make sure you sit by the whole 30 minutes and they will be fine.


----------



## Tibbs87 (Dec 25, 2011)

Well...it sounds like I should try other options before neutering. Re-introducing in a bathtub while keeping a hand over them both sounds like the best option. I may fill the bath slightly with water as well. Seems like that shared experience may help, who knows though. Thanks for your help everyone! It seems that I'm usually here with a serious or semi-serious issue, haha.


----------



## tifanyk (Mar 30, 2012)

haha thats good, at least you ask for help with serious situations. awww do they like baths? If no water- put down a cloth for traction. Let us know how it goes 

good luck


----------



## 1a1a (May 6, 2011)

Let us know how they go.


----------



## Tibbs87 (Dec 25, 2011)

Well, I chickened out. I may still try to re-introduce in the bathtub, but as of right now I'm going through with the neuter on May 14th. Thanks for your support!


----------

