# Starting Immersion!



## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

Garnet & I are in hour 1 of immersion! Wish us luck! 

Sarah

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

GOOD LUCK!!! 

I hope all goes well.


----------



## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

Well, we're almost through 2 full hours. Garnet is trying to explore the bathroom I've got us locked up in. Despite being hands on the whole time, I'm starting to get sleepy. Is my end result for Garnet to be comfortable enough to fall asleep near me or take a treat or what?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Wake up and chase that rat! Grab that rat! Skritch that rat be in her face and play with her. Pick her up and hug her. Overcome shyness and resistance until your rat interacts with you as if you were another rat.

No rush... you are not getting bit!!! You are way ahead of some folks that are still fighting for their lives at this point. Boring is good, liven it up with play or try snuggling for a while... snuggling is very good.



How is Garnet responding to you? Is she inquisitive, friendly, playful or hasn't she even noticed you are there yet? Pick her up and play with her she'll have to notice you then. Put her on your shoulder and stand up and keep skritching her. Handle handle handle and play, if she fights you... fight back as if you were anther rat. You and Garnet should be in direct physical contact as much as possible.

If you lay down she should crawl all over you. If Garnet snuggles up with you and takes a nap with you I'm pretty sure you put that into the win column too and you can take a little break together! 

As long as Garnet is getting more curious about you, more comfortable around you and is willing to interact with you are on the right track. Be patient and stay with the program she's probably already starting to change.


----------



## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

Yep, she crawls all over me, but she's done that since the beginning.

However, I had a first with her! After nipping my arm, hand abs a few fingers, she gave herself a LONG wash, then cuddled up on my chest & went to sleep! She's NEVER done that! I lived every freakin' second too! I gently caressed her the entire time too. It wasn't long, maybe 5 mins or so, but it was wonderful.  She's awake now & is exploring my hair, another new thing. She also won't get off my shoulder, which normally would be nice except I'm in a spaghetti strap pj shirt & her nails are ridiculously long. :-/

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

Lol, guess that snooze wasn't quite long enough! She waited for me to lean back, then burrowed down in my shirt to cuddle up in my cleavage for another nap! 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Sometimes love hurts or at least scratches a little.... Change your shirt but don't kick Garnet off. You are under three hours and you have already made more progress than some people make in months with new rats! Garnet is experiencing how wonderful you are, she's really beginning to see you as a friend and companion and snugglebuddy. She's trying to communicate with you, mostly that she really likes you and wants to be your very best friend. And you have to keep talking back, with skritches, hugs, treats, kisses and most of all using her name over and over so she knows who she is, and test a few commands like "come to mommy" and "up on hand". And reward everything nice she does with "good girl" and a treat if she will take it.

Garnet is trying to join your pack, this is the mostest important day in her life! And it's a really big day in yours too. Make it everything you want for a first date with your new rat and make it everything Garnet has been dreaming of. If she isn't challenging your authority all you have left to do is fall in love. Keep it up, no hurry, no rush neither of you have anywhere more important to be... and when your tired of the bathroom you can carry her around the house and do stuff together.


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Snuggling into your cleavage is very good indeed, she sounds like she is getting real comfy and happy with you. It's hard for girl rats to slow down... enjoy the moment.


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I just saw the pic... and yes that is what a very happy rat looks like.


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

For anyone reading along... this is immersion! In just a few hours Sarah and Garnet will be bonded for life. And soon they are going to leave the bathroom and start exploring the house together and they are going to begin a great new friendship as alpha and packmate. Sarah will teach Garnet her name and basic commands and Garnet will romp about her new home exploring and causing havoc. This is where it all begins.


----------



## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

Well, I brought her out of the bathroom with me so I could get her cage glean & she's acting like a spazz, lol. Not sure if this is how she is out of her shell, but she's running, climbing, jumping & even let me get her out of her cage by riding on the back of my hand while I was cleaning. This sound ok? Only thing that worries me is that she's trying to explore more & isn't checking in much. Time to go back to the bathroom?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

She has a lot to explore! Garnet has a brandy new gigantic BFF and a huge new home and everything is starting to make sense to her for the very first time since she got to your house, she's ranging with pack and that's what rats do. 

Garnet is changing as she is immersing into your pack... in small profound ways, you cleaned her cage together and your doing stuff together, that's what Fuzzy Rat, Amelia my daughter and I do, we are a family and go for walks in the park together. Stop to think back to a few days if not a few hours ago and remember the rat that was and look at her now... and think back to yourself a few days ago how did you feel about the little rodent then vs now. Are you starting to feel proud of her? Can you feel her trying to reach out to you? Are you starting to understand her? Do you think she's starting to understand you?

There's no need for her to be in a shell anymore she can start to be herself now and she is happy for it. She's a girl and she is going to be inquisitive, exploratory and intrepid and you better get used to it. But she should also come when called and stay near you or at least check in and tag up regularly. Sometimes when I call Amelia she comes to me, when I reach down to pick her up, she actually tags my finger with her paw and takes off again. She literary tags up. When Garnet contacts you grab her and give her a big hug and a skritch and a treat... she might even pretend she hates it but do it anyway, sometimes the lady doth protest too much.

There's no rule that immersion has to be done in one room or another or even in a single room you guys can play or chase all over your house or apartment or stay in a bathroom. But the exercise is about you two getting together so if you feel that you are losing control narrow down the space again. If she is exploring and free ranging completely without you rather than with you, you gather her back in. But so far it sounds like you are doing fine. 

This is where all of the theory you hopefully read comes into practice... If you got it, you are going to do this perfectly fine, so don't sweat the small stuff. You are the alpha and *you* lead your pack... be loving and let her expand her confidence and also be the mom and maintain control of the action. This is a bonding and control exercise. Balance control with affection. You are in charge you make the calls. 

Remember the immersion ends with giving Garnet as many hugs and belly rubs and skritches she can possibly take and so much praise that you can't think of any more kind words to repeat and all of the treats she can eat. Eventually you are going to have to put her back in her cage and both you and Garnet are going to hate the idea by then... Immersion once it's happening never feels long enough. You go into it thinking what am I possibly going to do for hours with a rat and you end with feeling like you are separating with a best friend. Some people have been known to take their rats to bed with them after immersion or stayed up all night with their new best friends. 

Even though at some point immersion ends, this is the beginning of a great friendship.


----------



## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

OMG, I honestly can't believe that I'm about to write this, but I just held Garnet on my chest while she was bruxing & boggling! 

She has NEVER done either of those things! I am in complete amazement! All I want to do is hold her & squish her & love her and and and....

We went out to get dinner & I had to put her in her cage. Needless to say, I would honestly rather be at home with my new besty, then sitting at the boyfriend's parents' house. :-/ Can we go home yet???

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Hurray!! and Congratulations!!!

So I'm smirking smugly. I've been exactly where you are as have the other people and rats that have undergone immersion. And yup that's what it feels like to really meet your new best friend for the first time. It feels kind of amazing doesn't it? I told you you would know what to do and when if you got it, and you would know when "it" happens. And the "and, and, and" is about the best way to describe the high you get when your hearts touch for the first time.

You trusted me and drank the Kool-Aid, and you got it, and you guys went from strangers to best friends in about 8 hours. Some people and rats never share the bond you and Garnet now have. 

This is the way Fuzzy Rat taught me the technique... And by the way today is her second birthday! We share the same birthday. So we have been celebrating with cake and things that are gawd awful bad for a rat in her condition and a human in mine.

Sarah, you and Garnet have repeated the actual bonding ritual that wild rats have been doing since the dawn of her species. You have addressed Garnet in actual physical rat language and she's doing her very best to tell you in a way she hopes you can understand that she loves you for reaching out to her by boggling and bruxing and napping on you. Remember this day, it's the first day of the rest of your lives together and by the way congrats on doing the first live on line immersion ever! 

I'm gratified that immersion helped you guys get together... Fuzzy Rat, well she just wants more cake, but if I could translate your and Garnets happiness, I'm sure she would be happy for you guys too.


----------



## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

Hehe, Happy Birthday to both you & Fuzzy Rat! I'm SO thankful that we "met" and you were able to walk me through the whole thing. I NEVER thought that we would get that close, that quickly! The funny thing is that you are absolutely RIGHT when you said sprints don't work, only a marathon! 

Enjoy that cake for me too. I've been trying to figure out something special for her to munch on tonight & think I've decided that a bit of white rice and some chicken katsu _might_ be sufficient.


----------



## Moonferret (Apr 13, 2013)

Thats great socal_sarah! heres wishing you both a wonderful future together, this has been an interesting read and I suggest you read back yourself to see the way you write about it change with each post, its very telling of how the process works in itself 
and happy birthday Rat Daddy and Fuzzy Rat


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Thank you from both of us!


----------



## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

Wow that's amazing how quickly you can get a rat to bond with you I'm unsure if mine are actually bonded to me or think I'm just a thing to climb on they have never done the eye boggling or the bruxing  they do like to curl up and sleep in my sweaters when I'm wearing them sometimes and they sniff me but they don't seem to like to be petted at all they will for a few seconds then run off is this to be expected sense they are females? And I have had them for three weeks.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

Im itching to do this with my girls and now i want to do it even more. Thanks for sharing your story helps to know it actually works and how much it pays off  

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

To avoid any confusion, Garnet was a sweet and loving girl all along. That was her real personality coming out when she bonded with Sarah and felt free to be herself. Every rat has his or her own personality and some are permanently damaged by neglect or abuse before you get them. Immersion will bring out their personalities, but you don't always wind up with a rat like Garnet. Our Amelia is bonded to us and she is really a very well behaved and loving rat, but she's rarely affectionate. She is very businesslike, her psyche revolves around rules and things to do and not to do, and commands, and things she has to get done and she is always late and in a hurry to get something done and she is on the go. Places to be, things to do and stuff to steal make up her waking thoughts. It's very rare that she can unwind and let herself just be stroked or skritched or held. Whether it was seven months of neglect or whether it's just who she is, she's never going to just cuddle up on a human and boggle and brux. 

You will know when you have gotten through to your rat, and you will feel it's love and appreciation and you will open a dialogue and your rat is going to feel free to be who he or she really is... but who your rat turns out to be depends on who he or she really is... and every rat will be different. We've raised a loving part wild that could be vicious to strangers and small animals, an affectionalte and loving true shoulder rat with a Thorazine personality and a hard pushing businesswoman, thief, agoraphobic that always thinks she's running 10 minutes late and has trouble letting her guard down for a few minutes at a time. We love each one, and each loves us and none are exactly like Garnet... 

You will know when you and your rat have completed immersion, everything will change, but don't take Sarah's outcome as exactly what yours will look like. We started immersion with Amelia being a mousy neurotic, but by the time we ended she had cow tipped Fuzzy Rat and was standing upright on my sleeping daughter's head growling like a dog and flashing her black eyes stop light red at me. If I put it on film, it would have looked like an exorcism done in reverse. Even though she bonded to us and accepted her subordinate role in our pack she made it very clear that she was eventually going to be a force of nature. And touchy-feely was never going to be her style. If Amelia were a human she would be a female corporate executive and not a mom or a lover, and that's who she really is. Affection is something that doesn't come easy to her, exploring and organizing and stealing your stuff and building her stash is what she wants to be doing.


----------



## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

Yea, Garnet was never a "bad" rat, just VERY shy. She's still almost always on the go, but will settle down for a little while if she's super comfortable. I took her for her 1st car ride (not counting the one in a box from the pet store) in my hoodie sweatshirt pocket & she was a perfect little lady, keeping to my lap & pocket the entire time (about 2 hrs). She curled up & went to sleep the last 45 mins, waking up just enough to brux & boggle when I stroked her cheek, ear & side. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

Here's a couple pics I took on the car ride:

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

That's pretty much what it looks and feels like to be bonded with your rat as her alpha. Garnet is comfortable in your car because she loves you and trusts in your protection and best judgment. You are the sun and where the sun goes the solar system follows. Well bonded rats don't usually run away because it's their nature to stick with their pack and follow their alpha.

Before getting too involved in outdoor activities, do read my rather lengthy thread on outdoor activities and shoulder rats. The big wide world is dangerous to rats. And closing car doors and open car windows can easily get a rat killed. Rats love to ride with their heads out of the car window, just like dogs Unlike dogs however, I once looked out at my side view mirror to find Fuzzy Rat fully outside, tail blowing in the breeze, driving down a highway on top of the mirror taking in the world like Snoopy on his flying doghouse. One sudden stop and that could have ended very badly. And rats love to dive through closing doors or hang their heads out of the open car door to see whats outside. Before you close a car door make sure your rat is safely inside and under control and isn't going to get squished. Also try to keep Garnet away from the gas and break pedals, you never want to have to choose between stomping on your rat or crashing your car. Our rats love to free range the car on long drives, but keep in mind you have to maintain some control of your rats while you drive or at least know where they are. It's actually not that hard, but like everything about shoulder rats you have to always be aware of the risks and be constantly managing them for your rats so you don't get blind sided. It's all about managing risks.

It's so wonderful when your rats trust you, and every day Garnet is now going to grow and evolve, and some day you might even wind up with a true shoulder rat. True shoulder rats are the ultimate rat experience for both human and rat. You have now laid the foundation for an amazing friendship... but remember with the alpha status comes the alpha responsibilities. Garnet relies on you to keep her safe and alive like rats all over the world trust in the good judgment of their own alphas. Don't let her down.

Still, I'm so happy for you and Garnet. You did great with immersion, I believe you really got it. If you are careful and exercise very good judgment, there are no limits to how far this friendship can take you.

And by the way, for those reading along... Sarah and Garnet did a successful immersion and they have built a special pack bond, this permits them to explore new activities together as their bond deepens and trust and reliance becomes second nature. Their unique relationship will allow them to communicate with each other so they can better handle new and more hazardous situations successfully. Without building this special relationship first, taking your rat out of your house will get it killed or lost fast. Immersion bonding, through safe site training, to true shoulder rat is process where there are no safe shortcuts and not all rats are built to be shoulder rats so you don't always get there. (Actually the words "safe" and "shoulder rat" don't belong in the same sentence.) So if you are new to rats and don't understand the process.... PLEASE don't take your rats outside the relative safety of your home.

Sarah, I'm very proud of you and Garnet, but we've always got to consider that some people don't read the whole thread might get confused and might just bound out the door rat in hand and we know how that will end. You and Garnet are doing very well indeed.


----------



## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

I was the passenger for our car ride so I was able to keep 100% attention on Garnet so that she wasn't free-ranging in the car. If I were by myself, she would probably be in a carrier, just to be safe for both of us.

I'm still having some trouble with her wanting to come back to me now when she's out free-ranging. Tonight it took me like 20 mins to try to get her out from under an overstuffed chair and I ended up having to use a broom handle to shoo her out the side so I could catch her. It's the same when I'm on the couch; she'll sneak down into where the hide-a-bed part is & I end up having to pull off all the couch cushions so I can wrangle her. I understand that she wants a dark, quiet, cozy hiding place, but this is just ridiculous. She doesn't even really do a tap out, more of just poking her head out to see where I am.


----------



## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

You need to start taking away places where she can hide like that. It's okay for her to hide sometimes as all rats like small, dark spaces but if it's because she's not wanting to be by you in certain instances she's likely to still be a bit fearful. Just keep up with the Immersion and take away places for her to hide, and maybe try to train her to come to you on command so she'll always come out when you call her. Shy rats take a fair bit of work to snap them out of their fear, so keep at it. I also see she's Red/Pink eyed and this will contribute to her fear, having reduced vision so sounds are more sensitive for her. Rats love to hide during playtime but I find if they're well socialised they will come running right back to you. My Storm, Ellie and Lily come to me when free roaming if I'm just walking around the room near them, whereas my Rosie likes to hide a bit as she becomes fearful and goes "part wild" when left to free roam. If she's hiding when she's out she's definitely not a candidate for Shoulder Rat training, in fact rats with a natural tendency to become nervous in new situations rarely would be, as would be the same with rats that are too brave and not cautious enough. Just keep at it and you'll get there; I certainly will be!


----------



## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

It's funny you mentioned the "part wild" comment because that EXACTLY describes her. It's like she's on drugs because she's super fast & hard to catch. Before immersion, she would pretty much just hang out in my lap; now, she's little Miss Independent and wants to see what the world is like on her own.  Is there a thread or something where I can figure out how to train her to know her name, to come, to get on my hand, etc?


----------



## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

I think there are some guides on here to do with clicker training, commands and the like but most of the resources are online websites. It's best to search Youtube and follow tutorials that way. I intend to also begin training my youngest 2 rats. If you want to train Garnet though I'd suggest you get her 100% immersed first and used to the sounds you make and your presence completely, otherwise the clicker will just scare her! It's likely you need more one-on-one lengthy sessions of Immersion with her first to get her over her residual fears - a rat must completely trust you in order to obey commands mostly. It's why I'm only working on training my youngest 2 girls first because I know that Rosie still needs some Immersion work due to her "part wild" side during free roam time, as does your Garnet. I hope it goes well for you  If you're interested I've added some notes on the Immersion Training sticky Rat Daddy made in the Rat Behaviour part of the forum you may find interesting/inspirational.


----------



## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

I already read through the extra posts on the Immersion thread, lol. I'm thinking Garnet's at about a 1.5 level. I KNOW she'd be terrified of the clicker because ANY sound seems to startle her. Really makes me wonder what it would be like to have a black eyed baby, maybe a bit less scared because they can see better? I'll work on more immersion with her today. I had her on my shoulder while doing dishes and vacuuming yesterday & she pooped all over the place, so I'm pretty sure she was scared.  Guess I was trying too much all at once. I'm just happy to have a cuddle buddy & need to go a bit slower for her...


----------



## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

Ahhh I see, great! Hope you found my insights useful, however remember that the "stages" I wrote about are just my personal ideas on how to gauge where your rat is at and they're not hardened; obviously some rats will be somewhere in between stages. Generally black eyed rats are better at dealing with it yes, but some pink eyed rats are fine too. It's really a mixture of her shy personality type and her lack of vision and lack of exposure that are making her scared. She'll get better with repeated exposure to you and noises over time, but it may be more gradual and of course you need to work in stages with that too. For example, you could start with getting her used to quieter noises and building up the volume over time. She will be afraid at first but it should all change. Bear in mind though that there will be things that will never change due to her having that certain personality from a young age; it's impossible to get a rat to be completely submitted to our will as we're meant to be pack members and not slave masters  It may just be that Garnet will get over noises completely with repeated exposure, or that she'll always be a bit scared of sudden movements and noises and you'll have to adjust your handling to compliment that. It's all about give and take between rat and human alpha to create the perfect communication bridge that suits both handler and pet.


----------



## Hephaestion (Jan 27, 2013)

I use clicker training. I use a multi-clicker which has volume control. Clicker training is easy and quick. She may be nervous of the clicker in the beginning, but just let her see it. Once she figures out what the click means, she will literally be dancing for joy as she comes for her treat. Mine do a funny hop skip jump when they earn a click. A great place to start is with these videos - http://m.youtube.com/#/user/MasterOfTheMidgets?&desktop_uri=/user/MasterOfTheMidgets - here, the trainer just uses her tongue to click which has the advantage of keeping her hands free. If you are interested in the theory of clicker training, I have some other posts floating around - or, just google Karen Pryor, the clicker maestro. Good luck!


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Sarah, it's normal for a rat to want to explore. And I hate to say it, I haven't found a rat that doesn't go through this phase. Fuzzy Rat took off into the shrubs for almost an hour at a time when she was 4 to 6 weeks old. This was quite disconcerting even knowing that she would come back. Amelia spent three weeks as a flower pot on my desk and when she finally cut loose she would evaporate into the woodwork for overnight and only show up for dinner time the next day. I won't even begin to address the 5 months my part-wild rat spent free ranging the neighborhood. But when my part wild came back she was the first to come when called, not only would she come, she would hop up onto my desk and meet me at eye level. Amelia will respond within 5 minutes about 90% of the time and Fuzzy Rat will still usually hold out for a bribe. She's not coming until she smells the cookie or hears the plastic crunching. She knows if she waits she will get a treat and she's way to smart to miss any opportunity for a goody. Fuzzy Rat has everyone including our other rat trained. Simply put, she knows her commands, but she sets her own conditions.

With Amelia, I would make loud noises she hated near where she was hiding and she would come to me for comfort when she didn't obey the come command and I would give her lots of hugs, skritches and love as well as my kindest words possible when she came to me. I caused her temporary distress for disobeying and always rewarded her in an over-the-top fashion when she came so she always knows coming is good and she will be loved. Oddly enough, when she gets me really angry and I yell at her, she runs straight to me and jumps on my foot for hugs and skitches and to calm me down... which I grudgingly do.... Fuzzy Rat knows to duck for cover when I'm mad and wait for me to calm down before popping up again.

Just consider this a normal stage in Garnet's natural development. The newness of her freedom is going to wear off in a little while and she'll get the message that she has to come when called. Be persistent and patient. Think of this like the terrible two's with children, and if you haven't experienced that, ask you parents. Toddlers usually get through it and so do rats. As for us parents, it's part of the reason we have grey hair.


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

BTW with shoulder rats, this is another reason for the safe site training. It's so much better for your rat to get over the exploring phase and in sync with you and your commands at the safe site than at Walmart. 

Stick with it, Garnet is an intelligent being, you know she wants to explore and like any child she's pushing her boundaries, but now you have to figure out how to communicate with her so she knows her limits and when to come back.


----------

