# Bayer Advantage multi on rats?... and cats/dogs?



## MaryLiz (Jun 15, 2014)

It's been a while since I last had any questions, but things have been going well with my rats and I've been super busy with college, but I have a question now that applies to my rats... as well as the cats in my household if anyone might have some experience with this.

This summer, Fiver (one of my rats) had lice. Only one vet in town that cares for rats, so I took him there, and really liked the place. She seems knowledgable and experienced with rat care, at least from what I could tell after researching rat care online. Rather than Revolution, which is what I see a lot of people from this particular forum using, she prescribed me Bayer Advantage Multi for dogs; she explained that it could be used on a wide variety of mammals based on weight, sold me a large breed dog size and put it in vials for me and gave me a syringe to measure, and told me how much each of my rats needed based on weight.

On that list of mammals that could take the medication, I could have sworn she told me it was safe for cats as well... I know there is an Advantage multi specifically for cats, but to my understanding after what we discussed, I could split up a large size dog advantage to dose cats as well. In fact, shortly after the parasite problem with the rats, I rescued two cats, which I had to de-flea, and then had to de-flea my roommates cats as well since I was the one who brought the fleas into the house. I used the Advantage and measured it out per cat-weight. None of the cats had any ill side-effects from it. Nor did the rats.

Today, I went to the vet's office to pick up some flea medication and to make an appointment for Possum, my other rat, who is showing signs of what I've heard called "hind-end degeneration", he seems to be having problems using his back feet and is apparently gaining weight as a result of his lessened mobility, but is otherwise healthy. I explained to the man at the desk (who was not someone I had seen at the office before) that I had used Advantage for the rats before, and that I would like to purchase some in a large dog size so that I could also treat my roommates cats because I've noticed some fleas in the house (fleas, for some reason, seem to come and bite me first before they start to bother anyone else.) Since we are all college students, and I had the money to pay for it, I thought I would buy the large size and offer to put it on their cats, since I would have had enough for the rats and their two cats plus plenty left over for future use with the rats.

The man I spoke to proceeded to try to sell me another cat sized advantaged and a Comfortis pill, telling me that I could use the dog Advantage on rats and dogs, but not on cats. I only bought the dog size for the rats, and he would only sell me a 9-20 lb. size. The pill, cat Advantage, and dog Advantage for the rats altogether was going to cost me over $60, which was definitely not the $36 to $40 I was planning on based on the last purchase I made.

After researching the Bayer website, the active ingredients in Advantage multi for cats and Advantage multi for dogs is the same... the percentage for Moxidecin is just 1.5% higher in the dog version.

So I am now very confused. Advantage isn't necessarily labeled for rats, but I have read of others using it on rats, and I've also read of a lot of other people splitting a large dog-size dose between multiple cats. Advantage for cats is also labeled for use in Ferrets as well. When I take Possum back to the vet on Wednesday for a check up and see if he really is developing hind-end degeneration, I'm going to ask her about the parasite meds as well. I just wondered what everyone else's thoughts were? Have you ever, or do you know of anyone who has used advantage on rats? Or on other animals besides dogs? I've read various instances of people splitting a large dog size between multiple cats, but now suddenly I'm told that you can't do that.


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## InuLing (Dec 26, 2015)

If the guy is new he might just not know any different, or maybe he doesn't want to make a mistake so he's sticking to the rules. Also you mentioned that it cost more, could be a sales tactic. As a cat foster I've never actually used advantage brand but it is not uncommon to buy large breed flea medicines and then portion it out since it is cheaper that way.


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## MaryLiz (Jun 15, 2014)

That's what I had thought... I've read multiple instances of people using the Advantage multi for dogs on cats as well, but of course "official" websites don't recommend it because it isn't marketed by the company. I really like the product because it also treats certain intestinal parasites as well; in the case of one of the cats rescued I'm pretty sure it got rid of some worm problems she had along with the fleas.

It could also have to do with the price factor. The vet herself is not like that though; because we live in a college town, they will even set up payment plans for students who might not be able to afford their pet's bill all at once. So I want to believe that wasn't the only factor in him refusing to sell me the large dog size that I requested (which, even if I weren't using it for the cats, would contain many more rat-sized doses in a more cost-effective quantity.)

I'm also a little nervous about dosing it to the rats straight out of the tube... he handed it to me with a paper and sticker and said the directions were on it: 1 drop of medication for every 100 grams the animal weighs. For animals as small as rats I'm not really comfortable with measuring in "drops"... I may go to my local Tractor Supply store and see if I can find a syringe with a removable needle so I can accurately measure what I'm giving them, and also a vial to store it in.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Advantage will only work on lice not mites which is why we prefer Revo.As for next time order online from Pets Megastore in AUS, even with shipping it'd cheaper and you can get Revolution instead. It can take up to 2 weeks to arrive tho so it's better to order it before u need it.


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## MaryLiz (Jun 15, 2014)

Thank you. I may see about trying to get Revolution by prescription from my vet so I can refill it here... I've been asking around and a friend of mine in town uses Revolution on her multitude of cats, and says she gets a bottle that she measures and doses out by weight, which is more economical for her in the long run... but has to be prescribed. I have two rats, my roommates have two cats, and my mother also has 3 cats and 2 rats, so I'm sort of researching options for all of these.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

I use Bayer Advantage II for dogs on my cats. I know someone who runs a cat rescue and she told me about it. I have way too many cats to buy the single cat doses. 

I got mine at Amazon. It was cheaper that way and shipping doesn't take that long.

The dose is

Cats under 9lbs .4 mls

Cats over 9 lbs .8 mls

Most cats are under 9 lbs


You *can* get syringes at tractor supply. The needles are typically sold separately. 

BTW, You can also use Pet Armour for dogs on cats. It's exactly the same thing as Frontline. I use to use that, but it doesn't work quite as well now.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Do not use Frontline on rats though, the main ingredient Fipronil, is toxic to rats if ingested. I used to get Revo from my vet until I realized I was paying 1.5 times what I would if I ordered from Pets Megastore.The only problem with Revo and I assume Advantage is that it evaporates so quickly after you open the tube. I try to decant it into a small glass bottle right away, with a tight lid or screw cap. Then using a medicating syringe I pull up each dose and apply. Capping the bottle even if walking to another room.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

http://www.pets-megastore.com.au/revolution-c-165_6_159.htmlHere's the link if anyone is curious


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

lilspaz68 said:


> http://www.pets-megastore.com.au/revolution-c-165_6_159.htmlHere's the link if anyone is curious


Just followed this link. On my browser, it I get a message that the home page has moved. Just thought I'd let you know.

http://www.pets-megastore.com.au/


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

Do you use Revolution for cats? 

What is the dose for rats?

Thanks


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

the dose is based on weight and concentration of the medication, so its always 6-10 mg/kg for rats and Revo. If you need actual dosages, just let me know weight of the rats and if you are using cat/puppy/kitten (60 mg/ml) or dog (120 mg/ml)

Sorry on the link, I was pasting while on my celll...thanks for fixing it catty-ratty.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

lilspaz68,

This is a great website! Thanks for sharing


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## MaryLiz (Jun 15, 2014)

Thanks everyone for your advice!  After talking with the vet today, she suggested buying the multi-packs of Advantage for cats online if that's what I wanted to use, or that they could order them for me through their pharmacy. However, I did get the feeling that the Advantage for dogs was safe for cats in the proper dosages... it's basically been tested on a variety of animals. The dosage sizes that catty-ratty mentioned are the same ones that I found online back when I did dose the kitties with Advantage.

I did the same as Lilspaz with the advantage... put it in little glass vials with the rubber stoppers and use a syringe to measure, then take the needle off for dosing (I did get the syringe and needles at tractor supply by the way. The looks I got when I said it was for dosing rat parasite meds!) For now, I will just use the Advantage that I already purchased on the rats and maybe a couple of the cats since it's a large cat size... it's mostly for preventative measures, since I noticed fleas in the house and I figure if they will bite me and make me itch, they would probably bite the rats as well even if they won't infest them as they would the cats.

For the cats, my vet suggested/ordered for me a relatively new spray by Frontline that should get to me by next week. I figured it couldn't hurt to try... it was one of my faster shipping options available at this point. (Not for the rats of course, but for all the cats and also our dog). We will see how well it works; it's supposed to take 1 to 2 sprays per pound of animal, that you have to wear gloves and rub into their fur/skin. I don't have much experience with Frontline as a brand, but if it works it was a decent price for the size.

For some reason my vet doesn't seem to mention Revolution as an option... in the future after the Frontline spray is gone, I will likely just order Revolution online.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

Are you using the Frontline spray to kill exsisting fleas? 

If so, in the future I wouldn't bother. Dish soap kills fleas. It doesn't do anything about the eggs, but if you bathe them again right after the new ones hatch, it breaks the cycle. And if you use spot on treatments, that takes care of the rest of them also.

A lot of people seem to think that Dawn dish soap is the only dish soap that will kill fleas. This is not true. I can tell you this for sure. I'm an organic gardener and use plain dish soap on pests. I've only encountered 3 bugs that cannot be killed with plain old dish soap. Fire ants, grass hoppers and scorpions.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

MaryLiz said:


> ...The looks I got when I said it was for dosing rat parasite meds!....


I was talking to a lady inside the Dollar Tree last week. We were both musing at how easy it is end up spending so much money there. I told her I had spent a lot of money in there recently buying toys for my rats. I got the same look!


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## MaryLiz (Jun 15, 2014)

Well... the way I understood it, is that the frontline spray should work like any other flea/tick medicine in that it should cause any new fleas to die off if they bite the animal as well. It's not supposed to just be for killing off fleas that are already here, it is supposed to be a preventative. I'm not sure why it's any cheaper that the regular topical treatments, but like I said I've never used anything like it before so I'll have to see how I feel about it after a few months.

We have definitely bathed cats in dish soap before lol One of the kittens we rescued this summer was pitiful... someone found him somewhere soaked in one of the storms we had. We ended up taking him because the people who found him were going to take him to the pound. We didn't have any flea meds on hand, plus he was pretty small, so we washed him in the bathroom sink. My mother's cats are indoor-outdoor, but my roommates cats are full time indoor cats, so they weren't keeping protection on them every month and then when we moved here all of a sudden fleas started coming in. I'm not sure if they're coming in on our clothes or if they rode in on our friend's dog by accident, but they seem to be a recurring issue. Our house doesn't seem to be "infested", but every couple of months we'll start seeing a few fleas here and there.

Thus my search for something cost effective for the cats. It would just be an additional plus if it also happened to be something I could use on the rats when needed, but not totally necessary.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

Okay.

I'm obviously not familiar with the Frontline spray. 

I'm just used to talking to people just about everyday that simply couldn't afford basic things for pets that generally require a prescription from the vet. Also, vets don't usually tell you that those meds that require a prescription for a dog or cat can be bought over the counter if you're buying it for a horse or cow, chicken, pig, etc. And for a lot less than you pay for the same thing if bought from a vet.

She probably also didn't tell you can buy spot on treatments at the grocery store or Walmart that are EXACTLY the same thing as Frontline, but cost considerably less. I'm practically a rescue for cats, about 15 right now. Yet, it costs me less to vet them at home myself than it does the average person to take care of just one.


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## MaryLiz (Jun 15, 2014)

She said it was a pretty new Frontline product. I usually don't use Frontline because I don't really know anyone who swears by it. I could have understood them completely wrong, but I hope not lol

I agree... it's interesting the way animal medicine is organized. I'm at least glad to know that there are plenty of other people out there who've already explored the options behind parasite meds; it makes me feel better to know that our cats and my rats weren't in danger from the meds I gave them.


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## amandad (Apr 20, 2015)

I've never had this problem before, so I'm unsure how to answer your question about the rats. 

I do know, that you used to be able to use certain flea and tick medication for dogs on cats (I can't remember the brand right now) but the companies caught on and reformulated their products so the customers were unable to do this anymore. 

As for why you are experiencing the fleas coming after you before anyone else, is because it's because of your genetics.  Based off of your genetic make up, you're more enticing to fleas, mosquitoes, etc... http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...some-people-more-than-others-10255934/?no-ist ; http://www.newsweek.com/2015/05/01/...some-people-others-say-scientists-326114.html


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

Concerning flea meds for dogs vs. cats, some brands of spot on treatment do have _a_ _different_ 'formula' for cats than they do for dogs. If I the differences are significant, I don't use those brands. 

I use the ones that have the same_ active ingredient formula_ for dogs and cats. For those brands, if there is any difference at all, it will most likely be the _concentration_ _of active ingredients _and/or harmless and useless inactive ingredients added to or removed from the dog or cat treatment.

There is also marketing to consider. I have worked in marketing. I have also worked in commission based sales. There are _many, many ways_ to influence a consumers impressions of a product and decision to buy. Businesses want to maximize their profits. You can bet that a company will take advantage of every single opportunity to make more money. That typically means taking advantage of uninformed, unaware customers and convincing them that they need a product. 

For those who are curious, I will explain with a simple scenario. 

I'm in the market to sell spot on treatments.

Dogs are more popular pets than cats. There is more competition in the market for customers who own dogs, so I have to keep my prices down to get your business. Suppose my product has the exact same formula spot on treatment for cats and dogs, but I want you think it's different. 

First, I wouldn't tell you that the formulas are the same. I would put warning labels on packages advising you not use a dog formula on cats. There a couple of reasons for putting this warning label on the box. Some are significant, others are to trick you. 

1. There are dumb people out there who will not take weight into consideration and assume that it doesn't matter. A dumb consumer might put the entire treatment for an extra large dog onto a single cat. The cat could get sick and die. I could get sued. But I warned you to protect myself
2. Then we have the consumer who is smart enough to figure weight into the dose. For this customer, I trick them into thinking there is a difference between the formulas for cats and dogs. So I change the _concentration of active ingredients_ of the exact some formula. Let's assume the _concentration of active ingredients_ _in_ my dog formula is five times that of the cat formula. 

You have a dog that weights 50 lbs and a cat that weighs 10 lbs. 
My 10 ml treatment for your dog is $50 
My 10 ml treatment for your cat is also $50
In reality, you could treat your cat 5 times using only 2 mls of the dog treatment for $50. 

If my marketing efforts are successful, you will instead by my cat formula 5 times and spend $250. I will be a very happy having made an extra $200 because I took advantage of you. 
The difference in the price alone is enough to fool most people into believing the products are different. To further give the illusion, I water and harmless, useless inactive ingredients to increase the actual volume of the cat treatment and decrease the concentration of active ingredients.
This way, if you do happen to look at the ingredients , you will notice all of my extra useless ingredients I put in the cat treatment. Since those ingredients are not in the dog treatment, they are actually different, _but not in a meaningful way_. Hopefully, you don't know they are useless and harmless. If so, I made an extra $200 by exploiting you with my marketing techniques.

For the record...........
When I worked commission based sales, I made more money than my coworkers by telling a customer the truth! A LOT more money.


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