# I just got two new rats, to introduce to others or not?



## Imjessiegee (Oct 5, 2017)

I just got two new dumbos, Reggie and Ronnie. They?re estimated to be around 12 weeks. I was advised to put them in with my other 2 once they?ve settled in the other cage for a week or two. I?ve got 2 in a different cage who are dumbos and I estimate them to be way older at around 1 or 1 and a half? Every article I?ve read says it?s harder for older ones I?m not too sure. 

How would I go about introducing them? As in previous posts one of my other older dumbos isn?t good with human attention as it?s slightly aggressive so will diminish the chances on new rat intros? This will be my first ever time introducing rats.


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## charlypie (May 15, 2017)

I'd give intros a try as long as they are all the same gender, and you have (or will get) a cage big enough for them all! I introduced my older boys (a bit over a year at the time) to younger guys probably around the age your little guys are with no problems at all. It is supposed to be harder to introduce older boys to older boys, but older boys generally accept young boys well. I haven't read your previous post but if your older rat is aggressive with humans it doesn't really mean they won't get along with the new boys- i have a rat who is great and loving with humans but mean to other rats. If he is aggressive with other rats it may or may not work out, it depends on how bad he is, one of my older boys was always a little bit of a bully to everyone but he never hurt anyone, he is 2 now and really mellowed out in the last 6 months. There is a lot of info about introducing rats around, basically you let them hang out together supervised in a neutral space for a bit every day, then move to a regular play space, and then if things go well you can deep clean the cage they will all be in (if it was someones cage before), rearrange it and put them together. The time it takes really depends on the rats, some rats will warm up to other really quick and others need more time. I think I took around 2 weeks with my boys but I really could of put them in together sooner, but I was waiting on my new bigger cage to come. There are various tricks you can try like using something to mask their sent or switching toys between cages so they can get used to smelling eachother. A lot of people like the carrier method but i didn't have success with it when I tried it, but it seems like the boy i tried it with might have to live alone (previous owners kept him alone and he's old) so I didn't have the best scenario to start with.


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## Imjessiegee (Oct 5, 2017)

He was very aggressive when I first got him, now hes sort of trusting but not enough to pick up yet and stuff. They are all males. Im reading about switching them into each others cages, but I read that this can stress them as theyll feel threatened in another rats territory? ill definitely have to try out the introductions when the new kids have settled in.

And for the carrier method, I dont have 2 smallish cages to swap them into so thats a fail.


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## Shadow <3 (Jan 25, 2017)

Imjessiegee said:


> He was very aggressive when I first got him, now hes sort of trusting but not enough to pick up yet and stuff. They are all males. Im reading about switching them into each others cages, but I read that this can stress them as theyll feel threatened in another rats territory? ill definitely have to try out the introductions when the new kids have settled in.
> 
> And for the carrier method, I dont have 2 smallish cages to swap them into so thats a fail.





Imjessiegee said:


> He was very aggressive when I first got him, now hes sort of trusting but not enough to pick up yet and stuff. They are all males. Im reading about switching them into each others cages, but I read that this can stress them as theyll feel threatened in another rats territory? ill definitely have to try out the introductions when the new kids have settled in.
> 
> And for the carrier method, I dont have 2 smallish cages to swap them into so thats a fail.


The carrier method just requires one small travel sized cage and a large cage at minimum. And considering a travel cage is necessary for vet trips, you should be able to use whatever you have.

There is a great detailed instruction on how to do the carrier intro method on this site, but the basic premise is this: put the new and old rats in your smallest cage/carrier (I used a 5 gallon critter tank for 3 girls) with scattered lab blocks and water bottle. Watch them closely, but DON'T intervene unless they start fighting. Leave them in the carrier until they start cuddling/grooming/sleeping together (until they get along). 

Next, move them to a medium cage if possible (skip this if you don't have a medium sized cage). I used a 10 gallon wire hamster cage. Again, put the rats, scattered food, and a water bottle in this cage (NO other toys for now). Once they get along, add in open toys (hammocks, ropes). Once they do fine with open toys, add in closed toys (boxes, space pods, etc.) 

Once they do fine with closed toys, move to yor largest cage. Thourally clean it out, then place the rats, food, and water into it. Again, no toys at this step. Once your rats do fine in the empty cage, add flat toys. Once they do fine with flat toys, add closed toys. And that's it!


The carrier method is so successful because rats really hate fighting in small spaces. That coupled with the fact that the majority of rat injuries during intros come from one rat trying to run away (which the small space of the carrier prevents) and the fact that stress is know to accelerate bonding, and the carrier method becomes one of the safest way to introduce new rats. 


Switching cages and bedding doesn't do anything but add extra stress to the rats, because your basically putting them into enemy territory where they can't locate the enemy. It'd be like you waking up in someone else's house with their stuff everywhere, then the next day waking up in your house with a strangers stuff everywhere, then waking up in a strangers house again, and so on. Not fun for either party (not to mention, drawn out intros like this can cause more stress and frustration from not being able to reach the "strange" rat).


Neutral territory intros are okay, but more likely to lead to injury (since the rats can run away or even avoid interacting with each, so any conflict will take longer to solve). They also generally take longer, because two rats meeting in neutral territory and two rats living together are very seperated things (again, think meeting someone in a park opposed to them just up and moving in with you).

That's not to say they don't work, in fact my first intro was entirely neutral territory based and it went fine. But after having gone through an "aggressive" intro, with one rat bullying the others, pulling out their fur, nipping them, hissing at them, chasing them, and generally being a bully, I'd rather stick to the carrier method (it's just quicker and less stressful for me).


As a side note, I did a rat intro with a rat that literally lunged and drew blood when approached for her first two months with me. I did the intro within her first few days home, and it went just fine. Rats know other rats are like themselves, and that we humans are different. I have human obsessed rats that really care less about their cagemates, and rat loving rats that just see me as a food dispenser. Honestly, introducing my aggressive girl to another tame rat really helped out, as rats emulate each other, and it's practically impossible for the less tame rats behavior to rub off on the game rat (instead the less tame rat will usually pick up the tame one's habits). I've seen this with my shy rats as well, once they bond with tame rats, they become much more trusting of humans in general.



I wish you luck with whatever method of introduction you choose. I do think giving the carrier method a shot might be a good idea though, especially because like I said, you really just need a small travel cage and a normal cage to do it. If you need more help, you can search the behavior section on this forum to find the carrier method sticky.


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## Imjessiegee (Oct 5, 2017)

Would a water spray work to prevent fighting? I don?t want them to get injured and felt the fastest way is to give them a light spritz of water? I don?t have a small cage currently. I only have a gerbilarium for previous gerbils, it?s not exactly small.

http://www.petsathome.com/webapp/wc..._XcX8TScNamWC-UxZ9IaAk6nEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## Lunchy (Aug 28, 2017)

Water bottles are good for stopping anything happening right there and then, but no good for preventing anything as rats don't really associate things like that with their behaviour, and it really just makes them less trusting of you. I tried it with a more aggressive rat but it really didn't do any good in the long run, but fully agree with the carrier method, this was more productive. I'd advise picking up a carrier (we used this one in large for two very big adult males and a smaller young male: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pod-Pet-Ca...=1510510797&sr=8-3&keywords=small+pet+carrier), as Shadow mentioned you will need one for vet trips anyway. Maybe see if you can source a smaller cage as well, I managed to get a free hamster cage from someone clearing out their garage to use with our introductions. 

If you're in Scotland like me, that Amazon link will be good, the large carrier is on offer at £5.99


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## Shadow <3 (Jan 25, 2017)

Imjessiegee said:


> Would a water spray work to prevent fighting? I don?t want them to get injured and felt the fastest way is to give them a light spritz of water? I don?t have a small cage currently. I only have a gerbilarium for previous gerbils, it?s not exactly small.
> 
> http://www.petsathome.com/webapp/wc..._XcX8TScNamWC-UxZ9IaAk6nEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds





Imjessiegee said:


> Would a water spray work to prevent fighting? I don?t want them to get injured and felt the fastest way is to give them a light spritz of water? I don?t have a small cage currently. I only have a gerbilarium for previous gerbils, it?s not exactly small.
> 
> http://www.petsathome.com/webapp/wc..._XcX8TScNamWC-UxZ9IaAk6nEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


I have to agree with Lunchy here. Plus, I have tried many different method to interrupt my girls more violent "mock" fights, and I've found that you can't make them really forget what they were doing. For example, I can dole out treats to the fighting girls to get them to stop momintarily, but as soon as the aggressor finishes her treat she just goes right back to chasing the other rat. 


You really do want a travel cage in case you need to go to the vets, or in case your rats have a falling out. While it's rare, it's always a good idea to have an extra cage on hand.


Travel cages are also good in case of emergency. Last year, I had a house fire and needed to stay in a hotel. Not only did the travel cage let me extract the rats in a safe and timely manner, but it ensured that I could focus on more important things while keeping my rats safely with me (hotels around here allow small caged animals, and my small travel cage led them to letting the rats stay with me.)


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## Imjessiegee (Oct 5, 2017)

Lunchy said:


> Water bottles are good for stopping anything happening right there and then, but no good for preventing anything as rats don't really associate things like that with their behaviour, and it really just makes them less trusting of you. I tried it with a more aggressive rat but it really didn't do any good in the long run, but fully agree with the carrier method, this was more productive. I'd advise picking up a carrier (we used this one in large for two very big adult males and a smaller young male: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pod-Pet-Ca...=1510510797&sr=8-3&keywords=small+pet+carrier), as Shadow mentioned you will need one for vet trips anyway. Maybe see if you can source a smaller cage as well, I managed to get a free hamster cage from someone clearing out their garage to use with our introductions.
> 
> If you're in Scotland like me, that Amazon link will be good, the large carrier is on offer at £5.99 [img= class=inlineimg]http://www.ratforum.com/images/smilies/smiley.gif[/img]


Haha, I am in Scotland! Yep. That looks a good price, carriers in Pets at home are more expensive. If the carriers good for intros, how long should they be in for?


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## Imjessiegee (Oct 5, 2017)

Shadow <3;2442194 said:


> Imjessiegee said:
> 
> 
> > Would a water spray work to prevent fighting? I don?t want them to get injured and felt the fastest way is to give them a light spritz of water? I don?t have a small cage currently. I only have a gerbilarium for previous gerbils, it?s not exactly small.
> ...


Ouch, sorry about the fire. I shall try picking up one from the next car boot sale my parents attend. What do I do if they violently fight? Some sources say separate and others say wait it out if it?s not deadly.... so much confusion.


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## Lunchy (Aug 28, 2017)

Imjessiegee said:


> Haha, I am in Scotland! Yep. That looks a good price, carriers in Pets at home are more expensive. If the carriers good for intros, how long should they be in for?


I had my 3 in the carrier for about 24 hours before moving them to the next cage, because they were quite aggressive to each other previously when I tried intros and I didn't want to rush anything. But really, it's until you see them cuddling and sleeping together, and you use the same gauge at every stage i.e. every new cage/adding toys in etc. Yeah Pets at Home cages are really expensive but I got that travel cage from Amazon a few days after I got my rats in January, and it's in good condition still, they don't really attempt to nibble it, and it's quite good for time outs and stuff as well. 

The rule generally is no blood no foul as well. Remember that rats have their own little hierarchy going and they will have some little scuffles, especially when their group has just been altered. Don't separate them unless it is really aggressive, or if you find any wounds on them. As Shadow's mentioned, rats tend not to fight in small spaces (I've successfully broken up fights by quickly moving them to the travel cage where they calm down and can move back into the normal cage after 10 mins) and the close proximity forces them to work out any issues that they have with each other. So by using the carrier method, you actually lower the chance of them violently fighting anyway. 

I wish you luck, it can be really stressful to us humans when we're introducing new rats to each other but try not to worry too much, I think the rats can pick up on that! I swear my boys fight more when I'm worried about them fighting, no idea if that's just me making up random connections in my mind or if they can actually feel my stress but definitely, take it easy and trust that the rats will work it out


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## Imjessiegee (Oct 5, 2017)

Thank you! Both you and shadow have been most helpful. I shall order the carrier, I have 2 big and 2 small rats so if they don?t fit in I shall have to invest in a cage to start intros unstead. I think I?m worried about he fighting because as well as being a rat owner, I am a gerbil owner. When doing an intro ages ago with a few lone gerbils they tend to get into ball fights and do more harm than good. One time moving them cage to another cage, I accidentally must?ve left the previous occupants smell and went out without realising to come back to several injured gerbils. I got my first two in september so haven?t really gotten to the whole ?I?ve had rats fight stage?. But thanks again!!


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