# Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - Update 03/02



## lilspaz68

A member of another forum adopted this boy from our local HS. Unfortunately they have a "policy" of not letting you touch or hold the rat you are thinking of adopting...you are actually NOT allowed to touch the rat until you have donated and are out the door. She said he looked cute in the cage. Then she got him home and realized that he was too much for her. Sadly she got the idea that he was genetically aggressive and even a neuter (which was in the future for him anyways) would help. His next stop unless someone took him in, was back to the shelter, and biters cages get shoved up onto top shelves and they rot. I know...I rehabbed one of these boys, Shrek. 
So I said I would take him in, and get him neutered. I had NO clue what I was getting into, and he just came home.

He's just a silly chock-fulla-hormones boy. He's charging around at high speed on my couch...grooming madly, sniffing, but no serious signs of aggression. I think a neuter should settle him down huuuugely. 

I took him off the cage (he got on the top by himself) with my Wildling gloves and he was terrifed of them. I just popped him onto my shoulder, even kissed the butt beside my face.

Tomorrow I will likely lie on the couch and just let him explore me, but try not to let my hands come near his mouth just in case. I'll pretend he's a young Shrek and see how that goes. :cheeky: He's really excited, but he stopped and ate some veggie oatmeal from a dish I held.

Gonna let him roar around out here on the couch/table and wear off some energy...he's been cooped up for a bit and needs it.

His colour is definitely different to me...the red eyes with the beige or light fawn or something _dilute_...  ;D


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

Dudley's first session started off a bit rough. He poufed up, he rushed around rubbing, running at me (I don't know him well yet, so I just kept my hands hidden and him away from my face). At one point he was foufing at me, and chattering his teeth. I laughed at him, he really was a funny little dude, but was still very wary. He hates his back touched even lightly (most aggressive males *do not* like poking or scritching near their back or rump and even sides, since to them this is an aggressive act and they often will end up retaliating) and jumps away. Then I went to the computer for a bit...he calmed down and waited for me to get back. I think he likes to perform. I went away again and this time found him on the floor...uh oh. :shock: 
So I tried to scoop him up but I did have to restrain him somewhat. He was terrified!!! He is so full of fear and hormones it makes him a bit irrational at times.  

I popped him onto my shoulder where he ran back and forth all upset and unhappy. I stayed still and talked to him and kissed the butt flying by. He eventually settled and I was able to take some pics of him 

















then he crawled onto the back of the chair. When you touch him he makes a scared noise like a creaky metal gate...the lightest touch will get you this awful noise. So I held his side gently against my face and talked to him until he stopped. then he let me pat him all over, and even sat on my shoulder and groomed. 

Look Ma, NO Blood!









I am very pleased at how well things went tonight. Yay!


----------



## mrstwinker

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

He looks like a beige to me. I have a girl the exact same color, with dark red eyes.


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*



mrstwinker said:


> He looks like a beige to me. I have a girl the exact same color, with dark red eyes.


He really isn't a beige...he's much more golden, like a bad fawn or something.


----------



## Gma and Gpa P

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

Wow! I love his color! I hope he settles for you soon.


----------



## begoodtoanimals

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

What a gorgeous rat! I am sure you enjoy this project. It is so rewarding to see them turn around and starting trusting again. Good job adopting him!


----------



## Gary26Uk

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

He's a lovely looking chap ! The poor old boy must not have had much love in his life for him to be so tetchy around humans.
It makes me sad when I hear of people buying rats or other rodents and just because they get bitten once they are afraid to handle them again , maybe thats what happened in his case.
Obviously they need a bit of work and if anyone can turn the little fella around itd be you !

Good luck


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

Thanks Gary, looks like we need it 

Well session 3 started and ended badly. He hates the gloves but I cannot put my hands inside his cage otherwise I might not have any left. This time he chomped right through the leather gloves and nailed the joint where the baby finger joins the hand. He also has that thing going where he hangs on from your hand lifted in the air and shakes that head so it rips the skin more.


Someone totally needs that neuter in a week.

I got him on the couch eventually by putting my arms folded near the cage door and he walked out onto them. He was doing very well on the couch, better than usual until he chomped by bare wrist. He has a wide bite for his size too. This one wasn't too bad at all.

He is now lying on his cage shelf sleeping... :


----------



## begoodtoanimals

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

Can't you "catch" him in an oatmeal tube to save your hands?
keep us posted on his progress.


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*



begoodtoanimals said:


> Can't you "catch" him in an oatmeal tube to save your hands?
> keep us posted on his progress.


The cage he is in makes it impossible to get him out unless he comes out on his own, or I reach and and try to gently grab him with gloves 

I am going to actually spend money on a smaller cage where the lid lifts up entired...they manufacture these as guineapig or dwarf rabbit cages but are entirely too small for both those animals.

It will be easier to get Dudders out or get my hands out of the way. 

this is the end of a similar cage...









tonight I will offer a basket to climb into or my arms again...


----------



## begoodtoanimals

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

"Grabbing" him I think will make matters worse because he has already shown you that he doesn't like that. So yes, letting him take the initiative and rewarding him with irresistible treats. 
It's probably good that he has a small cage so he'll appreciate what you are doing for him and it makes him more dependent on you for his privileges.
It's quite impressive how much it takes to outsmart a ratty brain


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*



begoodtoanimals said:


> "Grabbing" him I think will make matters worse because he has already shown you that he doesn't like that. So yes, letting him take the initiative and rewarding him with irresistible treats.
> It's probably good that he has a small cage so he'll appreciate what you are doing for him and it makes him more dependent on you for his privileges.
> It's quite impressive how much it takes to outsmart a ratty brain


I prefer to scoop rats up but this cage is beyond useless for anything like that.

This is the type of cage that came with him...but there was more in it (this was a ratboys' travel cage )


----------



## HappyMooCow

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

It is really interesting to read... I have so rarely encountered bad rats and its very interesting reading.

I study behaviorism in dogs so...

He is georgus however and he will probably calm down the way you work with him. 

He ended up on a good place at least 


One question however, what is up with his ears??? 

I have NEVER EVER seen such ears.. It's like little elf ears but more rounded with the tip...


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

He's a typical bad petstore dumbo 

He is being neutered on Friday, I think there's a very nice boy under all the hormones and I plan on finding him


----------



## HappyMooCow

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

ahh I was wondering if he was half dumbo or something..

I have to say though, his ears ROCK... I find them VERY fashinating 

Looking forward to the update how he will do, its very interesting reading and learning..


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

Well he managed to bite me twice in one night (on Thursday) but he was just being hormonal and defensive. we have worked out a method of getting him out of his cage. I put basket up to the door and after some back and forth and a bit of wheedling he hops in. I also shoo him gently into it to get him back home...working VERY well so far


----------



## keysong

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

Compromises are good.  He seems to have relaxed a little bit.


----------



## Malorey

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

What a hunk! ;D


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

Its neuter day for him. I am still trying to figure out how to get him into the carrier without losing blood


----------



## begoodtoanimals

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

Poor Dude, lucky you! Let us know how that works.


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

Well his surgery was late and I am sure he's one groggy little dude when I pick him up. But he's fine *whew*

Pray the hormones dissipate fast


----------



## HappyMooCow

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

Im keeping my fingers crossed for you...

Im interested in the follow up


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

He's still huffing at me, and gives me some serious evil-eye which makes me stop doing whatever I am doing. I think a week for him minimum for behaviour changes. :


----------



## HappyMooCow

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

Im still amazed over the work you do.

Basically I have very rarely been ever bit by a rat, the ones that DID bite has in Sweden always been concidered poorly breed. I knew about a few petstores that basically was breeding IN their cages as they were selling them... Hence severly inbreed in small small cases.. I stuck my hand in there once to save a cutie, I got bit not once but 5 times at once by 5 different rats.. I ended up calling animal control on them, and lateron they had to shut down cause of too many complaints of how they treated their animals thank goodness.. but that is about it except for when I have freaked one of my own out the day I bought him.. 

But Im so used to just grab a rat even if he's 6 months old, put him on my shoulder and walk away with him. So to hear about aggressive rehabilitation in rats and how that functions is VERY interesting for me since I do that with dogs, I knew rats were smart but it never really occured to me that it was that deeper level of function and trainig involved and that it was possible.. (must have had ablond moment) so I really appreciate your posts its very interesting reading/learning for me.


----------



## HappyMooCow

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

How is he coming on??? Calmed anything?


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

Not yet. He actually let me stroke his back for about 1.5 seconds this morning as he was eating his breakfast, but he's good about hopping into the basket to go back to his cage. He runs around like a manic girl this one  But he huffs at ALL rts and when I changed his waterbottle, went for my hand through the bars. He only managed to split my thumbnail at the very edge. He's definitely still Mr Hormonal


----------



## HappyMooCow

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

WOW, you got yuor hands full with this ne. He'd scare me... I can take a big bad dg any day a biting rat, they are so fast!!!

Do yu think he will calm dwn or can th ebehavir be inprinted in him cause he has dne it so long?>


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*



HappyMooCow said:


> WOW, you got yuor hands full with this ne. He'd scare me... I can take a big bad dg any day a biting rat, they are so fast!!!
> 
> Do yu think he will calm dwn or can th ebehavir be inprinted in him cause he has dne it so long?>


I think he's young, under a year so his behaviours haven't been going on for too long...most boys hit 5-8 months and change. He's a very curious boy and for awhile he would love to listen to me sing Moon River to him...well I hummed it, as soon as I found the lyrics and sung those he started huffing at me again 

Its been just over a week, and most people say 2-3 weeks for the hormonal rages to pass...others say 30 days or even 2 months...I am dying to cuddle him though!


----------



## HappyMooCow

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

Ahhh so it takes that long for them... I thught that due t their quick body systems in average that it wuld go much faster than that... 

I still love his ears, seriusly he has the coolest rat ears Ive seen!


----------



## begoodtoanimals

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

With dogs I can see the difference after neutering a Mr. Hormone in a week, if the problem is caused by hormones and not just behavioral.
I agree with happymoocow that a rat's system should be "flushed out" even sooner.
How about positive training like clicker training this guy?


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*



begoodtoanimals said:


> With dogs I can see the difference after neutering a Mr. Hormone in a week, if the problem is caused by hormones and not just behavioral.
> I agree with happymoocow that a rat's system should be "flushed out" even sooner.
> How about positive training like clicker training this guy?


I have heard/seen it can take weeks for the hormones to flush out. The average male who has been neutered is not allowed near females for 2-3 weeks as those swimmers take ages to disappear.

I plan on working with him this weekend, fingers be damned.


----------



## lilspaz68

*Re: Meet Dudley Do Bite or Dudders - session 1 with Mr Hormone*

Well, he's nowhere near as advanced as I thought he should be at 4 weeks post-neuter but he's given me some hope. That horrible flat reptilian stare isn't in evidence anywhere near as much. I do think he's cage territorial, but I think he likes me now. I open his cage door, he hops out onto the computer desk and onto the piles in the corner by the 'puter tower...and onto the floor. Where he runs and hops around like mad. He's a really active boy, constantly motoring. Then he will climb up my leg as I am sitting here, and crawl into my lap to see what I am doing. I pat him carefully (he has big strong jaws and I just don't wanna get crunched), and I get all happy and excited and thank him. He likes my "wheee!" voice and bounces, then runs off to climb and bounce on the floor again. 

He lets me pat him on his back without whirling, hold his tail (he used to freak) but he hates being picked up even if its just a forearm scoop. I get him on my shoulder and he is huffing with stress. I let him crawl into my arms, and last night I put my chin on his head and let him cuddle under. I told him he was "okay" and he stopped and snuggled in for a second ;D

Then my ADD boy wanted to GO again! LOL

Out last night

























and tonight bouncing around his cage asking to be let out...once I don't, he curls up happily on his shelf or in his hammock and watches me or snoozes.

Those big strong wide jaws









Out?









Out? Out? Out?









He makes me laugh, and I am just dying to hold and cuddle him and kiss that big broad head. **heart**


----------



## Clairebert

He's a beautiful rat, and it sounds like you're breaking through his broody facade haha.
He seems quite... big? Not fat, he just seems to have a larger skeleton than the rats I've seen... like his broad head, it is indeed very broad and kisseable ahaa.


----------



## junior_j

I have read the last 3 pages and it sounds like a very intresting case  I have 18rats all together in the past 18 months ish  .

We had a girl very similar to this , (we rescued and rehomed when people dumped them at vets/pdsa ect)

Her name was cracker and the key to get her to let us stroke her and move her from cage to sofa and visa versa was lettuce. Boring unutritial lettuce. Everytime she tried to bite she was put straight bk without the bland green leaf. Eventually she learnt niceness=food she likes.

well done for helping this little guy x


----------



## Lynxie

I think it's funny. He's got, like, hamster jaws or something. XD His face is all wide and strong looking.

He's adorable though.


----------



## angelcrossmarie

His head looks like my chihuahuahs head. Perfect for kissing though. 

He's a very lucky boy though, to have someone investing their time and love into him.  Good luck winning him over.


----------



## Leala

Lilspaz is awesome with rats. She's just so full of love. She'll turn that little terrorizer into a fat little lap rat I'm sure of it =).
Give the little bugger some scritches from me if he doesn't eat your fingers


----------



## lilspaz68

Leala your wish is my duty. 

Do you know how hard it is to have a rat on your shoulder and try to take pics of yourself with a camera? 
We did grasping, holding and patting today ;D










Pats and scritches, he stays still for loving









And he even gave me kisses (pic didn't turn out) and I finally was able to kiss that head. :heart: :heart: :heart:


----------



## HappyMooCow

awwww go lilspaz!!!!!!

That is so cute...  

Im so glad for the progress!!!


----------



## lilah_night

aww such a cute big head to kiss =DDD i love dumbos they are the cutest! i wanna get oneee


----------



## Leala

lilspaz68 said:


> Leala your wish is my duty.


Yay =)
You can do it lilspaz =)


----------

