# Horse Training



## HowlsOfAngels (Apr 9, 2011)

Anyone else here use Clinton Anderson's methods? Or a variation? I was just working with my gelding on moving his hind end away from me and a bit of of lead lunging. Most of the work I do with my horses is at Liberty (no leads) and with little contact other than to correct or praise (a head scratch goes a long way).

Well, it started 'cause he was acting up being crotchety (ear pinning, moving his rump toward me) so I took his mask (I use it as a flag, because I don't have anything else) and I sent him off. It took a few minutes to work through his mini-fits to get him to pay attention. 

I asked him to move, yet look at me, which for a moment seemed impossible in his mind and made him a little fussy; I'd point and he'd move to turn away, then I'd step toward his hind end and raise the 'flag' then he'd turn in and try to reach me, we repeated this until he figured out what I wanted. He was proud of himself trotting around me, nose pointing in, one ear toward me the other forward, he's quick to learn and generally fun to work with. 


Sophie, while all this was going on, was watching from there little shelter; I'm sure she was pleased that I haven't asked that much of her in so long. Although, she does love to be worked.

Anyone else have any silly horse training stories or need tips. I have poor grammar at this point, but I will make more of an effort to type precisely so that any instructions I offer are clear.


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## sorraia (Nov 10, 2007)

I use a combination and variation of methods from different trainers or schools of thoughts, all based primarily on positive reinforcement. I don't believe there is any "one size fits all", it depends on the horse in question, their prior experience, behavioral problems (if applicable), etc. Only on RARE occasions when absolutely necessary (such as my safety being in jeopardy with an unruly, ill-mannered animal) will I use punishment. Horses will bite and kick each other to get a message across. I believe in getting the most response with the least amount of cue, but in those rare circumstances it may be necessary to make the horse THINK I can inflict the kind of force another horse can.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

I train my horse based on dominance (mine!) and easy path hard path training. There's the easy path- what I want him to do, and the hard path- whatever HE wants to do.

For example, he is really quite a pain about getting in the trailer, but he is much better than before. He uses the trailer to challenge my dominence, which is unacceptable. He wants to do anything BUT get in the trailer. This results in full-blown tantrums. For him, tantrums are rearing, kicking at me with his forelegs, bucking, and bolting. Coming from a 15.3 HH proud cut horse, that is not safe at all. So, I work with him. When I first started working on his trailering, this is what I used-

Hard path- If he refused to load, he worked. I lunged him in a circle without rest. He is also highly agressive on a lungeline so that made it fun, too. The working was constant and tiring for him (and me, ducking his charges and driving him off of me).

Easy path- He was asked to stop at intervals and led up to the trailer, and requested to load. If he refused, or reared, or paused or pulled or any of that, he went right back to work. The trailer became the ONLY place he could rest from that work and he finally went in.

He still throws fits but a few circles on the lunge remind him of what exactly not loading means and he's much better now.

I used the same thing the other day on the trail- Sterling is naughty about the herd, especially mares. He pitches fits when we leave the group, which range from bucking and rearing to bolting and bucking at the same time back to the group. On this ride I was bareback and we were in an area with a dry riverbed that is very sandy and good for cantering or galloping on. I always run him on this riverbed. However, when we set off he was good for a while but after a certain distance, he stopped suddenly, tried to rear and promptly got smacked with my dressage whip on the butt. In this case the "paths" were-

Hard path- Pitch fits and try to get back to the group. I will do anything nessecary to stop him from killing me. His least favorite- my whip. If he had a fit, he got nudged, then kicked, then smacked on the rump until he did what was requested. The request was simple enough- move away from the group.

Easy path- Move away at a medium canter. I will sit there and steer with very loose rein and we will have a pleasant time.

That said, I usually use vocal commands more than anything, especially when reprimanding bad behavior. A firm "NO" is sometimes enough. If he disrespects my "no" and continues, I get out my figurative teeth and hooves (whip, kick). As dominant horse (who is dominating a dominant stallion) I act as a dominant in a herd would. I use praise and he loves it- but if he's bad, which is often, I treat him just like another horse would.

He does work for praise and to teach new things I never punish, I offer plenty of vocal praise and "good boy" when he does even part of what he is learning on cue. But when he decides to challenge me, I press my dominance in his face. I'm so small that a single slip on my part could be my death with the horse I ride. He's a dominant stallion, (yes, he is not gelded right. He very likely has an undescended testicle inside him that makes him very agressive.) and I weigh 110 pounds. I'm not mean at all but I am dominant and I duplicate the behaviors I see him use when he is with other horses. I follow the body language, and he has gotten to understand now so well that if he charges with intent to kill, if I step toward him, whip or no whip, and go "GET OUT OF HERE." He will do exactly that. He loves me as a leader and he activly seeks me out when in the arena on liberty.

(I think some of this sounded a bit harsh...I swear that his tantrums are deadly, recently, he rreared and almost went over backward into a barbed wire fence because he didn't like my request. I would have been a sandwich between the fence and him.)


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## sorraia (Nov 10, 2007)

Kinsey said:


> (I think some of this sounded a bit harsh...I swear that his tantrums are deadly, recently, he rreared and almost went over backward into a barbed wire fence because he didn't like my request. I would have been a sandwich between the fence and him.)


I completely understand what you mean! There is really nothing worse than a horse coming at you with the intent to injure or kill you. I've had to deal with that several times when I worked at the breeding stable, and then for the first few months of having my quarter horse while we got to know each other. It would be nice if kisses and cuddles were all it took to get a horse to do what you want and need it to do, but let's face it, that's not how they treat each other! lol The dominance relationship that you describe is a great way to work with horses and build trust and respect. The horse knows its place and knows what is expected of it, and appreciates it.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Sterling has come at me that way before and only reflexes saved me. Now he'll come at me, and I don't know if he would kill or not, but a bit of shouting or in one case, a crack to the face with a whip, saves me.

Yes, once he charged me, and I had a whip. He reared above me and he was trying to get me in the head with his hooves. So I whacked him in the face. Too bad, so sad, he was being stupid. It didn't hurt him any.


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## HowlsOfAngels (Apr 9, 2011)

I don't think I've ever had to deal with that level of agression before, atmost I've been kicked, once or twice by Hershie both times because he has trailer anxiety and hates two-horse trailers (I used the same technique as, Kinsey). Threatened by Shooter, he felt anxious when I first started working with him. And I was once kicked by a grumpy, mutt named Coco, he was a horse with a permanent scowl, and an 'old cowboys' horse that I very much respected (his back legs were sensetive and his owner, a preteen girl, didn't want to pick them).

Hmm, in your last post you mention having to strike him because of his rearing. Did you leave it at that one thwack, or did you follow up with something more? I've found that a little 'lunging for respect' does an agressive horse good, though, that would depend on whether you've done that before and his reaction to lunging. It's very similar to 'Join-Up' a technique used by Monty Roberts.

I've seen a lot of horses that are 'buddy/herd shy' and the thing that seems to work best with them is, as you put it easy path/hard path training:

Easy path being; walk or trot away from the herd. Anything more than a trot could seem like more work and may reverse the 'paths'.

Hard path being; one rein stops (most hate these), and circles, lots of tight circles. I've also seen one trainer back a horse in circles toward the herd, then stop him and give him the option to walk away with a light nudge.

I've heard you talk about Sterling's aggression in several posts now. Where do you think that his agression is steming from? Other than him being 'proud cut'.

Sorry for the belated response, I've been busy re-costumizing my computer (I just got it back) and re-adding/translating my previous works on Mibba.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

The one hit was plenty- he was so shocked he quit outright and we continued lunging, which is what triggered it in the first place. Normally, a non-agressive rear on the ground is not enough to equal a strike, a jerk on the halter suffices, but he was aiming to hurt.

My horse loves to speed so it isn't hard for him to go at an easy lope away from the group. Yesterday he got so riled about going fast that he forgot we were jumping and refused the first jump. He was so surprised when it popped up in front of him! (he went from a standstill, it was only 2' 7" and ended up not counting as a refusal but they took 20 points for lack of foreward motion.) After that it was all I could do to keep him from trying to jump every jump in that course. He flew over an uphill log moving like a racehorse- he just snatched the bit and jumped, then went right through the water, up the bank, and galloped through the finish. His heartrate was 60 from sheer excitement, it dropped within a minute once the adrenaline wore off. 

Most of it is from the extra testosterone, I think, the rest is that he desires dominance. He used to throw me around like a ragdoll, he was my first horse so I let him, but I took his dominance away and he's much better now. Unless he is trying to challenge my dominence he is very even tempered, sort of flighty and very fast, but if he wants something he tries for it mostly peacefully first. He can be rude on the ground and we are working on it, but he's better. The other day I was riding XC and we came off a drop, and I landed too hard on him, so he dropped his head and started bucking. Not flat out, just kicking out a bit- he knew I'd get it, and I did. We read eachother very well.

He really does want to please, I make him sound like a terror but he's a big quirky baby until something sets him off. I don't think I've had any agression directed at me in quite a while. A couple of nasty rears when he got scared on the ground and he sometimes makes faces when I go to put the girth on, he likes bareback, but an elbow works wonders when he feigns a bite.


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## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

May I just say how nice it is to hear about people defending themselves from crazy horses!

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE horses, and I have worked with them professionally for over 10 years. I have great respect from them and, for the most part, I have had the privilege of working with horses that had respect for me. 

This is not always the case though.

I am currently the manager of a boarding stable. While I love all of our boarders, sometimes, I just want to smack them! We have one lady who is just about the sweetest person you have ever met. The problem is, she is so sweet that her horse NEVER gets punished when she does something wrong! In fact, this woman will actually REWARD her for doing things like pushing, 'dancing' in the cross ties and chewing! The horse is smart; she has learned that all she needs to do to get a carrot is head-butt someone to the ground and try to run over them. It finally got to the point that I had to stop working with her all together. The owner was paying board but not getting any service because the horse would try to attack me anytime I got near her. It was not the horses fault, she was trained to be badly behaved. Still, if I had to, you had better believe that I would take a crack at her face with a whip it it meant saving my life. 

Fortunately, the owner is getting better. After being hospitalized TWICE because of her horse she decided to look into alternate training methods. Things are much better now.

I stil have to deal with crazy people that get upset at me for defending myself though. I got chewed out last year after whipping a horse once in the face after she pinned me against a fence and was striking at me with her frond feet. Her face was not hurt at all; no bald patches or eye damage, but she backed off FAST! And who gets in trouble? 

ME. 

'How could you do that to a poor helpless horse?!'

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## HowlsOfAngels (Apr 9, 2011)

Hitting a horse in the face is just one of those things, it's generally looked down upon because of the potential for injury and loss of trust, but in that kind of situation is react or risk serious injury. I think your actions were justified.

Gah, I've dealt with people like you mentioned. My boarders had to kick this person out because she adopted a mustang from the BLM and then proceeded to mess up at every point and refuse to take advice seriously; such as: No you may not saddle your yearling and try to ride her, No it is not okay to give her an extra scoop of grain, No it is not okay to lunge her when she's limping, No it is not okay to overdose her on something your vet warned you about and then leave her colicking all night for the boarders to deal with without warning, etc. She was a nightmare, and that poor filly; BLM was contacted many times but they ignored every report. I just learned from my farrier a few months back that she's actually alive, despite collicking many times and all of her owners stubborn, ignorance.


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