# edit-breedings gone on hold.



## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

well like the new title says breedings on hold due to my moving and the fact that id lil a lil more info before i start , doesnt mean it wont happen just mean not now, ill wait till the time is perfect for me and them.


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## CaptainFlow (May 16, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

Tips-
1. Find a mentor
2. After sufficient schooling, get some quality pedigreed rats. 

Any rats you bring into the world without these two things are NOT furthering the species, they're just overpopulating. 

Even if you won't get a mentor or wait until you know more (ie, don't need to ask a bunch of strangers online for advice), please please please start with non-pet store stock. 

Although, I doubt any breeder will be willing to let you have their stock, knowing that you'll be breeding without enough knowledge and experience. 

At the very least, make sure you have at least 20 homes lined up BEFORE you bother breeding unwanted rats. 

And keep one of the baby boys for yourself, so that poor lonely Daddy will have someone to be with. 

Just a thought, if you have enough money to breed, then might you have enough money to drive to a rescue and pick up some ratties for distribution in your area? Though I admit I have no idea what it's like in NZ, there's never reason to bring subpar pets into the world willy-nilly.


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

well i dont know of any breeders in my area , i cant find any non pet store rats at all! (ive looked) and also yes yes i will be keeping a male for the daddy so he is not lonly , my mum wont let me do a shelter but i will maybe some day ...


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## CaptainFlow (May 16, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

Look what I found! Yay Google, anything within a few minutes.

This is a NZ Rat Forum, and there's a whole section on rats that need homes. 

There is NO reason AT ALL for you breed pet store rats when there are already some that need homes. And if it's babies you want, foster for the rescues that seem be around. You'll be a welcome part of the solution instead of part of the problem. 

Like I said, if you have enough money to breed, you definitely have enough money to drive for rats. You won't make money breeding rats, ever, and most definitely not with pet store rats. 

And if you're concerned about having rats in the pet stores, well, it's much better that they're not there. You have no idea where those guys will go, and some could be snake food, or impulse buys to be neglected a month later. Rescue, and put up posters in the pet store. That would be SOOOO much better than overpopulation of subpart genetics.


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

You probably won't find tips (by which, I'm not sure *exactly* what you'd want... if you're going to breed, you need to do a lot of research yourself as I don't believe there are "tips" per say) on breeding here, because we do not breed. If you want tips, then go about it the right way and get the info from those who know what they are doing. You've been shown there are rats that need homes, and you insist they don't exist. We can't stop you, but the truth is... We are not breeders. The few breeders on the board probably won't give you any tips, as they are ethical breeders who didn't throw rats together to see what happened. They mentored, they studied for years.... Not to speak for them, but I doubt they'd be so willing to give you tips any more than anyone else.

You will do what you want. But do not expect us to support it. Do not expect tips from people who do not condone you breeding, and/or who do not breed.

Not being angry, not bashing. Just saying... You're looking in the wrong place, here.


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

ok i realise there may be a few rats needing homes BUT there are almost none in my area, and just to clear this up in nz RATS ARE NOT FOOD FOR PETS! we dont have snakes ect 
i know u all think its a bad idea but i have been reserching bit by bit for weeks now and i was just looking for anything anyof you may have come acroos ie bad situations that you could or could not handle , i plan to breed my rats in the best way possible and find homes for them, the only pet stores i would sell to i TRUST because i know how they sell them i know they make sure the people are good (as best they can)

i think your being unfair 
where i am it seems rats arnt pets much because pet stores can get them (as no1 is breeding) 
and i think many should get the joy of looking after rats.

i went on the nz rat fourm and couldnt find any rats i could get (as many r too far) so far ive found at most 2 or 3rats needing homes near me and they are over a year and a half old and i am thinking of asking bout getting them when i move on the 30th i will have 3 rat cages one the size of a double wardrobe one that holds 4 girls atleast probly more and one for 2 or a mummy so she has space to be pregnant and not botherd. i have researchd i have money aside that can be used if they get sick or have birth problems 


so dont judge me i just wanted to see if yall could offer me any help....

CaptainFlow you have been helpful with the nz forum i have joined that now and already started to line a home up for some babies when the time comes =)


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

well, good luck.

please understand - the people here are not all about criticizing YOU or anyone for that matter. The people here are about what is best for the animal and even the betterment of the species in general. People keep getting confused on that fact. 

I understand all of what youre saying, and yes it does seem like your situation in NZ is different than what we experience in the states. The one thing that keeps occuring to me however, is that breeders spend YEARS learning their trade. It is a science and to any GOOD breeder, the point of breeding is NOT to just create more colonies of pretty rattie babies, but to better the health and temperment of the species through genetics. If you do not have access to a breeder then Im not sure how youre going to do that. But, that is not my business really. If you've noticed, Ive not bashed you and have weighed each word to make sure that you cannot misconstrue what Im saying as being negative.

I just wish you the best, for the sakes of the ratties that you will eventually become responsible for. I really hope that this truly isnt a spur of the moment thing, because life isnt something to do on a whim, as there is no such thing as a disposable life.

Again, good luck to you and I hope things go well.


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

this is not a spare of the moment choice i have been pondering the idea for sum time 

and dont worry the bubs will get good lives and i will be breeding for the better in the long run i will breed the better traits into them as best i can

i do understand the responsibilty of this


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

Im not being mean, I just want to be honest.

Im sincere in saying that I wish you the absolute best luck in the world - I really do.

I cant say that I agree with what youre doing, but I CAN see that the situation is different there (meaning in NZ) than it is here.

That being said, I dont know about anyone else, but I personally would like it if you would let us know how it goes.


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

i will , if you want to know bout how it goes ill put pics up of the bubs when there born ect i love this forum and would love to share with you my experiance


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## rat_ratscal (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

guys, you do know all the really good breeders started off like toxic_tears


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

I don't understand what I am being unfair about? Please, tell me, as I am only trying to say one thing -

We are not the ones to seek advice about breeding on. You asked for tips. We do not have any. We do not breed.

What is unfair about that? I am not condemning you. I do not understand why you don't choose to find a mentor... At least, you don't seem to be. Many people mentor with breeders halfway around the world, so I don't see why you're choosing not to do that. You seem to want to do it right, and that would be what most rat fanciers consider doing it right. You could obtain breeder rats when your mentor believes you're ready. You have the money, so it could be done.

Other than that? I haven't bashed you in the slightest, nor have I said you're a horrid person. I don't understand your need to rush anything, but that certainly isn't bashing, is it?

Again, my main point is that you asked for tips, and as a forum that has very few breeders, none of whom are extremely active... The tips you seek are not going to be found here. That is what mentoring is all about.

rat_rascal - as we say over and over again, the "good" ETHICAL breeders started of mentoring under established breeders. They studied for years. They did not buy pet store rats and breed them. If you'd like some examples, I'd be MORE than happy to provide them.


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## cjshrader (Feb 15, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

Why would you need to leave the forum even if you were bashed? I haven't always gotten along with every single person but I'm still here.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*



rat_ratscal said:


> guys, you do know all the really good breeders started off like toxic_tears


Actually most mentored under another breeder or had good lines.

Toxic, if you do want to breed, I would put in the time and effort involved in finding pedigreed rats, however hard that may be. You don't know what's in your pet store rats' genetics and they may carry something like a tendency to PT or similar that could give a lot of the new rat owners a very premature heartbreak when their new pets die very, very young. At least with pedigreed rats you'd know that you're giving these new owners the best pet you can.

My two cents.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

If you're set on the idea of breeding, why not ship over rats from breeders in Australia? I know of a few people in NZ who have done that whith great success.

I don't condone you breeding, but if you're determined to do it, please do it properly.


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*



rat_ratscal said:


> guys, you do know all the really good breeders started off like toxic_tears


No, I dont know that at all.

What i DO know, is that Ive been fortunate enough to meet a breeder in my area that has been breeding for over 30 years. 30 YEARS.

This person has an education and mentored for nearly 7 years with a master breeder who had been breeding for genetic superiority for nearly 40 YEARS.

Through this breeder that I met, I was able to speak with another although this person is a few hundred miles from me so Ive not met them face on. This breeder's history is very much the same. As is nearly every other breeder that is in the rat association. None of them make a dime from this, the actually lose quite a bit of money. They do it simply for the genetic betterment of the species. Which is the only GOOD reason to do it and THAT takes time and effort. Not just desire and reading a few websites.

Rat_Rascal, you seem like a together kid and nice as well....but you really need to get your facts together. Just because you say something, does not make it truth. The internet is a wonderful research tool. Use it.


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## glindella (Sep 9, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*



rat_ratscal said:


> guys, you do know all the really good breeders started off like toxic_tears


No, the good breeder are mentored by breeders and are breeder to better the pet rat. 'Back yard breeders' contribute nothing to the species. Pet stock is not supposed to be bred ever. Good breeders use pedigree stock, much like a good dog breeder. 

*I am not against breeding by people who KNOW what they are doing and do it correctly. My neighbors when I was growing up bred English Labradors, they could trace their breeding stock back at least four generations, they had multiple litters (by different mothers) and more often than not the puppies were sold before they were born (I think it was something around $800 each) and when the puppies were sold it was with the stipulation that the dogs would not be bred


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

shipping has restrictions

this is most likely something that this person will not be able to do

as for the whole.. needing tips, advice, instructions, insight, support & what have you in regards to your desire to breed... this board simply is not a place that will be able to fully embrace this notion

Nothing against you.. keep in mind

The fact is that anything said openly on the public forum will be read by countless people & it will be archived for anyone savy enough to search for the subject. Because of this & the overall feel of this particular forum not being one that supports what is consider "an unmentored breeding practice" you are simply not going to be able to address your questions openly on this board.

There are boards where breeding is discussed. Mind you, many people who openly discuss breeding are people who breed feeders for the reptile pets & they also have rodents as pets. If you can read past some of those unsavory topics & pick out the great tips offered about proper care,nutrition, housing, medical concerns & everything else breeding related... that would be the place to discuss these topics. Then reserve all of your posts about the joy of your pets, the silly things they do along with any pictures you wish to share on this board.

No one is trashing your choice but no matter how valid your desire is to breed, no matter how well suited you are to take on this adventure... this simply is not the proper environment to discuss this venture.

I know of one board that discusses this. I am sure there are many others but I really have no need to find others since I don't breed, I found it quite randomly when I was looking for resources that discussed various genetics. I have shared this link with a few people that have insisted on moving forward with breeding. You do what you feel you should do & if you would like the link to that board contact me via private message & I will offer it to you.

I wish you all the best. Please research this a bit more before you actually toss two rats in together because there are some not so pleasant things that can happen & you really need to know about these worse case scenarios before you find yourself in the middle of a crisis & you have no idea how to handle it. Even the most well known & well respected breeders have had mothers die during the birthing process or shortly after giving birth. You are going to need to know these things as well.


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

Very well said, Julia. Exactly what I was trying to say, only you put it best.


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## kaylaface (Sep 6, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

How much money do you have saved up? Is it enough to provide all of they're needs? I would hate for you to end up with a huge litter and not have the proper space for them. What about a vet fund? If one gets sick it's likely they all will. I know the idea of breeding sounds fun. I almost bought a pregnant rat because I wanted babies. I'm glad now that I decided against it. I mean I would hate to think of how expensive it would be to house 20 rattie babies. I think it would be best to just get them from a rescue. Way less expensive. Just a suggestion.


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

hmm...well i guess im going to have to agree to disagree, you are right this isnt the right forum to ask about this , i have got another one. and to rat_ratscal i agree as the rat breeders must have started like that (back time ago)

anyway sorry if i was moody last night i was stressed and let things get to me .

i am going to breed thats that really but if your interested i will post pics of the bubs and keep you all updated

*edited by the mods - please don't swear, this is a public forum where there are younger members present.*


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## CaptainFlow (May 16, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

Agreeing to disagree works really well with political discussions and if apples are yummy. You're talking about lives, and being an unethical breeder. 

But I suppose that is the only solution left, since we have decided to stick to our principles and you have decided to continue with this. 

Good luck, I hope none of your rats die.


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

to Kaylaface 

i went to the rescue they havnt had any for a while 
i have space and money saved.
ive got atleast $1500 in my bank atm that i could use if they got sick i will have 3 cages and because im living at home i have no where else for my money to go.


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

mmm


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## ladada2001 (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

Toxic_tears, I support you. If you see yourself fit, if you are able to get the proper education, and if you're able to train with another breeder before hand, or even possibly discuss this with other breeders. Or even with people whom have bred rats.

As I know you've mentioned earlier, these rats are not for snakes, nor should they be for any other animal.

Please keep it to that level. They're family members after all. They should be at least.

I mean, I kind of agree in the sense that (I know I'll be shun, and very possibly found to be the devil if I say this next few lines) That, if there is an absolute shortage in your area.

And when I mean absolute, I mean, so distant that you could only possibly import maybe one female over seas. And it wasn't for food.

Yet in fact, the rat was for breeding with a very very carefully selected and screened male.

And on top of this, the babies were then very very properly taken care of to the point where they were almost nursed 24/7 in a sense (even if this isn't a good idea. You must understand my point)

It's like child birth.

You don't randomly decide "I want to have a child one day" it's many many many hours of careful planning, and the thought that somewhere along the line that they are making the right decision.

And as well, that the person(s) is fit.

A fit person may sit along the liens of a highly trained/professional breeder, or even one with whom has resources to specific places in which could aid in any scenario.

And, of course after seeking help, reassurance, and a some-what lengthy process of defining that you've made the right decision.

Then, and only then would it be appropriate.

To me, it's more of; Know it, study it, learn it, love it. Then decide.

Now, i understand I'm possibly, very possibly being subjected right now. Yet I had to expect it writing this response, I mean, it is only common that some will feel very very forward to say "breeding is a bad idea, never do it." and some will say other-wise and say "Breeding is okay, you just need to know your things."

There is a divisional line which I'm sure, even some of us don't cross properly when coming to an assumption.

****, I'm certain we've all crossed it at the wrong time for the wrong reason on the wrong thing.

Yet fear not. Sooner or later, we stick with it, keep with it, and keep a mind set to stay with it.

I'd say roughly at least proper breeding experience with other breeders/vet's about animals for breeding as significant family pets.

And once again, as I'll often say; "It's not a pet, it's not a toy. It's a member of the family, treat is as such."

I mean, you wouldn't just randomly have a boy, and a girl as children, and make them have sex just because you were in the middle of the forest?

I should hope not.

Yet at the same time, you wouldn't randomly grab a boy, and girl that you didn't know. And force them to have sex, because there were no other people around? 

That could be dangerous.

Keep a close eye.

Know what you're doing.

Do it the right way, you only get one shot.

I support this; only if the correct steps are taken, and only if it's agreeable on all threads/tops/forum posts. That, breeding, may be right, and may be wrong.

There is no definite one way, or another, the forum does not support and the forum does not unsupport.

There is only the opinion that, if the breeder is good, if the breeder is right, and trained, and a professional.

Then, and only then, could they.

However, a random decision is inappropriate.

Careful consideration can make things good, and bad.

It all depends on the person, does it not?


Now, I know after all of that, I will have at least one comment that will disagree with the whole statement I have just put. Or at least be frowned upon by it, Because, after all. We do not support breeding.

Well, for future reference, I support it. So long as (as I mentioned) All guidelines and common sense is taken correctly.

I will not make a thread to support rat breeding on any level.

Nor will I give advice on how to perform it.

Yet I shall say this; know what you're doing.

And the only way to really know anything, is to be lengthy in-depth.

This decision isn't as hard core as being president. Or Priminister.

However, it's as serious as child birth.

Remember, everything you do to these rats, makes you their soul responsibility.

As my signature say's; Life/Lives first, entertainment last.

I think thats about all I have to say, I could say more. Yet I'm running out of ways to stress my point of; "KNOW IT, THEN CONSIDER IT, THEN RESEARCH IT, THEN RESEARCH AGAIN, THEN CONSIDER AGAIN, THEN KNOW IT AGAIN, THEN ASK THE EXPERTS."

Then and only then, at least some insight will make this more responsible

That's the Key factor here, responsibility.


*Responsibility*

_Responsibility_

Responsibility

*Responsibility*


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

i agree with most of that rather lengthy comment, and i have considers all my options, i have rescearch the topic ive been looking at the genes =ect and how to predict what babies ill get (color wise)
ect ect ...
i know this isnt a breeding site but just to be fair the sub title for this area is
Think Before you Breed

Rat breeding information<<<<<----------
which is what i was asking about really


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

Have you researched all the health problems likely to arise?


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

yes i have


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## glindella (Sep 9, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

do you know anything about your rats pedigree? How old the parents/grandparents lived to? 

I still find it strange that your mother won't let you rescue one rat but you can make 20+


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

i ment that i couldnt get one from say wellington because its so far from me and at the time the only rats needing homes wernt close, but i have found a lillter today that need homes that i might get some from


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

There you go!!! Its almost sad where even the areas that have limited rats have rats coming out of the woodwork too. The maritimes in Canada has been overloaded with homeless rats, and there are not enough good homes for them out there. 

Congrats, let us know about those rescue babies you pick up


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## sorraia (Nov 10, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

IF you are serious about breeding, you are seriously going about it the wrong way entirely. 

First, WHY do you want to breed rats? Is it because you want to meet a "demand"? That makes you no better than the puppy mills that churn out puppy after puppy just to make a small profit. This also creates competition for rescues who are desperately trying to find homes for the rats produced by mill-like breeders. Is it because there are no rats in your area? Consider why there are no rats. People in your area may not like rats, if that's the case you won't easily find homes. Is it because you genuinely love rats and want to do what is best for them? If that's the case, this is a worthy cause, but you still need to approach it in the right way. 

If you want to approach breeding in the right way, you need to stop where you are right now, and take a couple steps backwards. You are starting with pet store rats. In all reality, you know absolutely *nothing* about these rats. They may appear healthy, *right now*, but you don't know if they will stay healthy. A good rat can easily live for 2 to 3 years, but a rat from an unknown breeding background might be lucky to even make it past one year. These rats are often plagued with health problems. They have poor respiratory health, are at great risk for genetic disease such as megacolon, and are very prone to cancers and tumors. Knowing this, how can you willingly put more rats into this kind of risk? If you truly love your rats and want to do what is best for them, start with rats from known bloodlines, bloodlines you can go back to and track health problems, bloodlines you can read about for many many generations.

A common cop-out is "there are no breeders in my area so I have no choice but to start with pet store rats." This is nothing more than a poor excuse. A good breeder that starts out the right way puts in the extra effort to get rats from other breeders. No breeders in your area? Time to plan a road trip! No time for a road trip? Start planning a shipment! Good breeders have been known to ship rats not just from other states, but from other countries. This is what it takes to be a *good* *responsible* and *ethical* breeder. Starting with pet store rats will not gain you any kind of good reputation. Taking the extra time and effort to start with the right rats will show you are willing to go that extra mile and deserve a good reputation.

You made mention that you can place babies at the pet stores. Honestly, this is one of the worst things you can do as a breeder. By leaving babies in a pet store, you have no way of knowing what happens to them. They might end up in a good home where they will be loved for life, but you don't know. Most people don't want to face the possibilities of reality, and just pretend that's what happens. In reality, these rats can easily end up snake food, they can easily end up mistreated and abused, dumped in the woods where they will starve to death or be torn to pieces by a hawk or coyote, or end up in a rescue where they will sit for the rest of their lives hoping for that forever home they should have been given from the start. This is the sad fact of life. Pet stores that sell animals target impulse buyers. They see that cute face on the other side of the plexiglass divider and buy the animal without any thought to the care it needs. When the animal grows up and isn't cute any more, or wasn't potty trained, starts chewing on the furniture, and is generally unruly and disrespectful, people dump it. Why are there so many cats and dogs rotting in shelters? People backyard breeders and puppy mills produce so many animals that go to irresponsible people. If you are serious about breeding, you need to put the extra effort in to find the right homes for your animals. Don't dump them in pet stores for someone else to take care of, take responsibility for the animals YOU brought into life. 

If you are serious about breeding, contact other breeders. It doesn't matter if they are in your area or not, just contact them and start learning the right way.


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

Well said, Sorraia. *bow* Always good to see you here.


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

WONDERFUL post Sorraia


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

yeh im hoping to see the rats in the next few dyas i even got my sister to come look as she needs another girl (she only has one rat atm--because we cant find anymore--) 


and as for finding me a breeder ive been lookingfor breeder in my area and i cant find any


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## Rodere (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

I'll just start by saying that I don't agree with what you are doing. My advice, which you are apparently seeking, is not to do it at all. You asked for advice.. that is all the advice I have for you at all.

I have been mentoring under a reputable breeder for quite some time. I just switched mentors to one who will have more time to school me in the ways to do it. I have two girls and a boy, all pedigreed, that are reserved and I will be driving several hours to pick them up. And I'll be driving quite happily.

Why haven't you set up a road trip to go get some? I read where one new breeder drove 16 hours to pick up good pedigreed stock! You can use the excuse of lack of money.. because a litter will likely cost more than the road trip itself. So why start with pet store stock?

And going to the shelter to try and find a rat to breed.. that is wrong. It's like getting a dog from the pound, without any knowledge of what breed it is, simply for breeding. A good breeder loves rats as pets first, but breeds only to improve the species. You're going simply to get one for breeding. Not because you want it as a pet. Not because you know it has wonderful health and all in it's family did.

As many have already said, you are going about it entirely the wrong way. I just hope the rats don't have to suffer because you are so uninformed, inconsiderate, and rash.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

I think she is getting some of the oops litter as pets not future breeding stock.

Correct me if I am wrong.


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## jellybeanqueen (Sep 6, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

i think it's kind of weird how just a week ago you posted this:



toxic_tears1990 said:


> wow i didnt know we had a rat shelter thing ,i* wouldnt breed myself *and i do see your point but im sure that all pet store rats arnt breed for just demand , i mean id sell to a pet store ,adn be breeding better rats but i guess there arnt many people who would go to that much trouble


well, i believe i've said this before and i'll say it again, if you're going to breed, do it under the wing of a reputable breeder and use pedigreed rats.

good luck to you.


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

i was just tipy toeing around the sensitive issue, not wanted to be accused of things and not ready to talk about my thoughts on breeding yet really...


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

yeh the ones im picking up hopefully are ust me wanting to help them out , there going to be pets and not breed, i am looking for a breeder to ask things to but having trouble locating one


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## jellybeanqueen (Sep 6, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*



toxic_tears1990 said:


> yeh the ones im picking up hopefully are ust me wanting to help them out , there going to be pets and not breed, i am looking for a breeder to ask things to but having trouble locating one


maybe you could find a breeder online and talk/ask for advice via email?
they'd probably be glad to help you out! =)
i think you're in new zealand, so i found this link for you that has the email address of the breeder (she's not breeding at the moment, but maybe she can give you advice?) and this one, who says that you're welcome to email her about genetics and such. =)

hope that helps you!


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

thnaks =) ill contact them


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

hmm because of a problem on my comp i cant contact them if you can get a hold of there emails i will email them (there are links but i cant use them coz my comp is been not cool)


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

[email protected]


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

FYI about this breeder... (from the site)

Important Update: The FDR is having a break from breeding!
Due to the intense hours and cost of raising a litter, I don't feel I am able to bring another litter in to the world, and still do them justice, at present, and my girls are all spayed/getting spayed. I may have another litter in a year or two if I find another awesome girl, but at present there are no plans for that. I will update again when the situation changes!


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

Still Passion, they may be willing to mentor even if they are not breeding.

Raising and adopting out an oops litter can be a good start. From there you can see if it's something you really want to get serious about. If you can't handle that, you know you couldn't handle being a reputible breeder and can drop it from there. If you enjoy that perhaps you can look into what it would take to be a reputible breeder.

Some things aren't instant, and it seems like this was what you were looking for. A breeder to mentor wasn't available right away, breeding stock isn't available right away so immediately you think 'well I can breed my rats without all that extra work' this is the wrong way to go about anything in any breeding world. It's lives you are playing with here, it takes time patience and it is WORK. It could even mean loosing your favorite rat! You wouldn't want to take something like that so carefully now would you?

Time could be as long as a few years. Just learn right now, why the rush? There really is no reason for it and the wait could make you a better person. It's for the rats sake anyway, not for the making more rats sake.


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## jellybeanqueen (Sep 6, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*

A1APassion posted the first email address, the second one (genetics) is: [email protected]

let us know what they say!


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## Sparker (Jun 17, 2007)

*Re: your all gunna hate me but its my choice im going breed*



jellybeanqueen said:


> toxic_tears1990 said:
> 
> 
> > yeh the ones im picking up hopefully are ust me wanting to help them out , there going to be pets and not breed, i am looking for a breeder to ask things to but having trouble locating one
> ...


I just want to say two things:

1. JellyBeanQueen, this was the most helpful thing I have seen in a long time. The sad thing is that that is not something you should have had to look up for her...

2. I realized a little while back that I was probably one of the people that came across as bashing, when I didn't mean to. I think that all of the people who have been giving advice to Toxic while being honest, mature, and well spoken.


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

yall read he edit yeh?


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## cjshrader (Feb 15, 2007)

toxic_tears1990 said:



> well like the new title says breedings on hold due to my moving and the fact that id lil a lil more info before i start , doesnt mean it wont happen just mean not now, ill wait till the time is perfect for me and them.


It's probably rare that someone would go back and check the first post again, so I quoted your edit here.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

sounds very wise to me

please continue learning & definitely get settled before you take on this, what should I call it, venture (for lack of a better word)

I'm sure you are very bright & you know that life revolves around doing things right & doing things wrong... that we also have to analyze what we do as this... is this something we CAN do verses is this something we SHOULD do

never rush into decisions that effect the life another


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## toxic_tears1990 (Oct 7, 2007)

thanks for reposting that for me, =)


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