# Home eithanasia retry



## Lightswitch Man (Sep 12, 2015)

For all moderators or whom it may concern.

A couple days ago I created a post about home euthanasia which was removed. Sorry for the inconvenience. In retrospect, I should have sought prior approval for such a hot topic.

That being said, I'm not a forum troll and legitimately feel that most rat owners can benefit from this info.

If I drafted a long, detailed post containing specific products, step by step instructions with pics including details like container volume, N2O flow rate, etc., would that be acceptable?

If not, would you be willing to describe the conditions that would allow a post about home euthanasia to be acceptable?

I honestly feel that home euthanasia is a wonderful practice, but in a state of "catch 22". It's considered bad because the average rat owner doesn't have the knowledge to properly home euthanize their rat, but the only reason they don't have that information is because it's censored due to stigma.

I think it's time to do away with this myth and allow a larger percentage of wonderful animals to experience a more humane and painless death.

Thanks for reading and again, sorry for posting without prior approval a couple days ago.


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## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

only a licensed veterinarian should ever euthanize an animal. there are vets that will visit your home to make it less stressful.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

When my Gribouilli was diagnosed with congestive heart failure I got an oxygen tank. I didn't want her to suffer the last hours/days by gasping air and dying from asphyxia. It would have felt like drowning since she had water in her lungs...anyway, when she started gasping for air, I put her in an oxygen box. Less than 12 hours later she was dead. I found her curled up in her space pod, all relaxed so I don't think she suffered.

All of that to say that I would never have killed her myself, no matter what. For one thing, the tears would have blinded me to even be able to proceed with the N2O. 

Many vets do at home euthanasia so that is an option.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

Furthermore, some sick people could come across your post and try it for fun. I do not think that knowledge should be posted for all to see.


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## Lightswitch Man (Sep 12, 2015)

Gribouilli said:


> When my Gribouilli was diagnosed with congestive heart failure I got an oxygen tank. I didn't want her to suffer the last hours/days by gasping air and dying from asphyxia. It would have felt like drowning since she had water in her lungs...anyway, when she started gasping for air, I put her in an oxygen tank. Less than 12 hours later she was dead. I found her curled up in her space pod, all relaxed so I don't think she suffered.
> 
> All of that to say that I would never have killed her myself, no matter what. For one thing, the tears would have blinded me to be even able to proceed with the N2O.
> 
> Many vets do at home euthanasia so that is an option.


I do understand your position. However, it may be a bit idealistic. As horrible as it is, the majority of rat owners are financially unable to or unwilling to pay for euthanasia, whether that be at at the vet or a vet home visit.

If this information were more available, more animals would receive a humane death. You just have to decide, is it better to have a small % of animals euthanized at the vet, which is actually more stressful, or do we want to change this ridiculous censorship of information to allow a larger % of animals to be euthanized humanely at home. Many who would use this info would otherwise be unwilling to take their animal to the vet. What about Sunday night in a town with no 24hr small animal vet. 

I respectfully believe it's time to end the censorship guarding this info. If you think it's wrong, don't do it. But for the more rational among us, the information should be freely available.


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## Lightswitch Man (Sep 12, 2015)

Gribouilli said:


> Furthermore, some sick people could come across your post and try it for fun. I do not think that knowledge should be posted for all to see.


Honestly, I think sick people will find far more cruel things to do than N2O overdose.


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## Lightswitch Man (Sep 12, 2015)

KayRatz said:


> only a licensed veterinarian should ever euthanize an animal. there are vets that will visit your home to make it less stressful.


I 100% agree with you, in a perfect world. However, when we favor in financial considerations, vet operating hours, etc., we must as a community concede the humane death of animals is more important than the fantasy world ideals that actual bet us more suffering animals. It's an ironic situation.


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## Lightswitch Man (Sep 12, 2015)

Lightswitch Man said:


> KayRatz said:
> 
> 
> > only a licensed veterinarian should ever euthanize an animal. there are vets that will visit your home to make it less stressful.
> ...


Thanks all for at least reading.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

I looked at the link you posted in your previous post. N2O costs $30 which is probably what a vet euthanasia would cost anyway. I don't think people who can't afford a vet euthanasia would spend $30 on N2O instead.


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## Lightswitch Man (Sep 12, 2015)

Gribouilli said:


> I looked at the link you posted in your previous post. N2O costs $30 which is probably what a vet euthanasia would cost anyway. I don't think people who can't afford a vet euthanasia would spend $30 on N2O instead.


Please at least be honest. BThere was no link in my previous post. However, I just queried Amazon to check prices and the cost is less than $1. Quite a far cry from the $30 you quoted.


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## Augustine (Nov 14, 2011)

Euthanasia actually costs a lot more than that. When we had to put our cat down, it was about $100 for the procedure itself and another $25 for the actual vet visit. And this was at a "low income" vet.

Since exotic vets usually cost a lot more, I can't imagine euthanizing a rat costing any less than $100 or so, if that.

So while I completely understand people's concerns, I for one would rather have people do home euthanasia (the *proper* way) than just let their animals sit there and die on their own.

I remember a few years back I knew someone who had a snake and would kill their own live prey using the aforementioned method. If memory serves, it's about as humane as you can get and, for the most part, a lot cheaper than going to the vet and having it done there.

It's far from ideal but the sad fact of the matter is, we just don't live in an ideal world. All some people can do is try to make the best of what little they have.


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## Lightswitch Man (Sep 12, 2015)

Anyway, food for thought. I'm trying to be respectful to all, so I will refrain from posting anything else until I get the green light from a moderator. Thanks for reading and I hope if nothing else, at least I stimulated thought and opened the "home euthanasia" door just a crack.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

They were a dozen small N2O cans for whipped cream and the ones I got on the first page were for $30. If it wasn't from your post maybe I googled it myself...but those were the prices I got from Amazon. It varies from $17 to over $50. No one would know how many of those cans they would need, and you can't just buy one.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

http://www.nature.com/news/best-way-to-kill-lab-animals-sought-1.13509#/methods
At the end of first paragraph there is a link on how to humanely kill laboratory rats. Under NOT ACCEPTABLE nitrous oxide alone (N2O) is listed!!!Don't do it.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

The issue here isn't a technical one, it's an emotional one.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

Cost prohibitive? It cost $20 to have Bernard PTS via isoflurane anesthesia and a heart stick. In CANADA where vet prices are notoriously ridiculous.

No fiddling around with whipped cream cartridges, boxes, no wondering if they're in pain... no taking them out of the box thinking they're dead only to have them wake up shortly after (it HAS happened)...

Debbie D has a guide for home euthanasia out there and it gets regularly discussed on forums and rat groups, mainly because it is extremely unscientific (using baking soda and vinegar) and there is HUGE risk for user error. Right at the bottom she states something like "if it doesn't work your baking soda might be too old, try again with fresher stuff" ???

Home euthanasia for small animals is no new thing. Feeder breeders regularly use CO2 to euthanize, and while it may be regarded as humane, it all depends on who's doing it and if they're doing it properly. They are doing it with CO2 tanks and regulators and there is no guesswork involved and CERTAINLY no whipped cream cartridges or baking soda & vinegar. I prefer to leave it to a professional.


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## LilCritter (Feb 25, 2014)

It depends on where you are since laws are different... Even county laws have an effect. Where I am, animals can only be euthanized by injection of a concentrated barbiturate; the only exceptions are for putting down animals for food or for research in which the injection would skew results. In the neighboring county, it's illegal to euthanize at all - even at a veterinary office - except for food or research.
Because euthanasia where I am is done by injection, it can get pretty expensive.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

LilCritter said:


> It depends on where you are since laws are different... Even county laws have an effect. Where I am, animals can only be euthanized by injection of a concentrated barbiturate; the only exceptions are for putting down animals for food or for research in which the injection would skew results. In the neighboring county, it's illegal to euthanize at all - even at a veterinary office - except for food or research.
> Because euthanasia where I am is done by injection, it can get pretty expensive.


This is very true, too. A failed home euthanasia could even be considered animal cruelty in some cases. Certainly wish that would've been the case with the member we had whom tried to euthanize her rat by constricting its chest and putting it in the freezer.


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## Rain Shadow (Dec 14, 2015)

There might not be a lot out there on rats but I know a lot of information for at home euthanasia can be found for mice. It's discussed a lot in the culling forum on my fancy mouse forum. 

Personally I research how to put down my animals in an emergency. 

I live in a small town with no emergency vets within an hour drive. We have horses and close friends with livestock. Putting an animal down yourself is a sad fact of life out here. 6 months ago I was comforting a friend while her husband shot her horse because he fell in a tortoise hole and the bone was sticking out of his leg. It was a quick death with a bullet or letting him suffer for over an hour for the vet to get there to put him down. They opted to end his suffering.

My grandfather shot a neighbors dog after it was hit by a car and it was obviously suffering and the owner asked him too.

My ex snapped the neck of one of my hamsters a few years back. He was heading to the vet the next day to be put down from a tumor, that burst open that night. Instead of having him suffer I had him put down at home instead of making him wait til morning when the exotic vet could PTS.

For planned euthanasia I prefer the vet, but in reality emergencies happen. In my situation Id do it myself before letting my pet suffer


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Documents/euthanasia.pdf

There are the AVMA guidelines for humane euthanasia. Specifically these passages are relevant:



> Inhaled vapors and gases require a critical concentration within the alveoli and blood for effect; thus, all inhaled methods have the potential to adversely affect animal welfare because onset of unconsciousness is not immediate. Distress may be created by properties of the agent (eg, pungency, hypoxia, hypercarbia) or by the conditions under which the agent is administered (eg,home cage or dedicated chamber, gradual displacement or prefilling of the container), and may manifest itself behaviorally (eg, overt escape behaviors, approach-avoidance preferences [aversion]) or physiologically(eg, changes in heart rate, sympathetic nervous system[SNS] activity, hypothalamic-pituitary axis [HPA] activity).


And



> (3) Inhaled agents must be supplied in purified form without contaminants or adulterants, typically from a commercially supplied source, cylinder, or tank,such that an effective displacement rate and/or concentration can be readily quantified. The direct application of products of combustion or sublimation is not acceptable due to unreliable or undesirable composition and/or displacement rate.


An example of sublimation would be CO2 euthanasia by dry ice.


If you feel you can follow the guidelines and can perform a "safe" euthanasia at home, then no one's stopping you. But there is always huge potential for error and inhumane suffering.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

Gribouilli said:


> http://www.nature.com/news/best-way-to-kill-lab-animals-sought-1.13509#/methods
> At the end of first paragraph there is a link on how to humanely kill laboratory rats. Under NOT ACCEPTABLE nitrous oxide alone (N2O) is listed!!!Don't do it.


Yes, according to the AVMA, euthanasia by N2O alone is not humane. https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Documents/euthanasia.pdf




> Nitrous oxide is the least potent of the inhalation anesthestics. In humans, the minimum alveolar concentration(defined as the median effective dose) for N2Ois 104%; its potency in other species is less than half that in humans (ie, approx 200%). Because the effective dose for N2O is above 100% it cannot be used alone at 1 atmosphere of pressure in any species without producing hypoxia prior to respiratory or cardiac arrest. As a result, animals may become distressed prior to loss of consciousness. Up to 70% N2O may be combined with other inhaled gases to speed the onset of anesthesia;however, the anesthetic contribution of N2O will be only half (20% to 30%) of that expected in humans due to its reduced potency in animals.


*NO whipped cream cartridges. Period.*


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## Ratloved (Oct 4, 2015)

Thank you Jaguar! This conversation has lasted too long.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

I get the idea of wanting to euthanize at home, I really do. But this isn't a game - this is choosing to take the life of an animal for what we decide is the greater good. If you can't ensure a swift, painless death, don't mess around. It is horrible to watch an animal suffer until death, but even worse to knowingly risk worsening or prolonging its suffering, no matter how good your intentions are.

Purchasing the proper equipment to provide safe home euthanasia will be, in most cases, more expensive than just taking it to the vet. Setting up for CO2 euthanasia, an inexpensive and accessible inhalant option, will set you back around $400 for a decent tank and regulator. Physical methods, including shooting and decapitation, should be practiced on already deceased or anesthetized animals first, preferably under the guidance of someone with experience and proper equipment.


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## Ratloved (Oct 4, 2015)

I have been a ICU/step-down ICU RN for many years. Even through death, oxygen is considered a comfort measure. Nothing should be forced to die gasping for breath, so cruel.


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## Verucasdad (Aug 31, 2015)

I think this thread needs to go away. Are you going to euthanize your sick relative? Taking matters into your own hands is irresponsible and sickening. Vets are there for a reason.


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## Ligeia (Nov 14, 2015)

A lot on this matter has already been said but I just wanted to add one more thing to the conversation... The person that made this thread mentioned that euthanising small pets at home might be a good option for people that cannot afford a vet visit. Now, I am a full time student with a part-time job and I can assure you that no matter what, the money for a vet visit will always be available. I think that any responsible pet owner should have funds to use in an emergency case, if you are 100% broke and can't afford to eat why would you have pets in the first place? I would rather starve myself than neglecting my dying rat, I would rather go out and beg for money on the streets with my pet in my arms than trying to kill it at home. I really doubt that there are many rat owners out there that can't afford proper euthanasia performed by a professional, eating beans on toast for a couple of days should work for almost anyone in order to save up enough money for a vet visit. Please understand that no offence was meant to anyone, this is my genuine opinion regarding this matter.


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## JAnimal (Jul 23, 2014)

Ligeia said:


> A lot on this matter has already been said but I just wanted to add one more thing to the conversation... The person that made this thread mentioned that euthanising small pets at home might be a good option for people that cannot afford a vet visit. Now, I am a full time student with a part-time job and I can assure you that no matter what, the money for a vet visit will always be available. I think that any responsible pet owner should have funds to use in an emergency case, if you are 100% broke and can't afford to eat why would you have pets in the first place? I would rather starve myself than neglecting my dying rat, I would rather go out and beg for money on the streets with my pet in my arms than trying to kill it at home. I really doubt that there are many rat owners out there that can't afford proper euthanasia performed by a professional, eating beans on toast for a couple of days should work for almost anyone in order to save up enough money for a vet visit. Please understand that no offence was meant to anyone, this is my genuine opinion regarding this matter.


You are so right. If you can't afford proper care and vet care then worry about yourself and not a pet.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

I do think that there are cases where being able to euthanase at home is a good thing. I've sat there several times at the emergency vet with a dying rat in my arms desperate to give them peace as have most of us that have kept rats for any length of time I think. I also know people that know what they are doing and have a proper set up (CO2) and have spoken to them at length about it. 

There are pro's but also definite risks. I know a friend ran out of gas unexpectedly once, and the rat had to have cervical dislocation as it was too far along, luckily the person doing it knew how to do this as humanely as possible, I'm not sure I could do it personally. 

It is also by no means 100% peaceful when all goes to plan, unless the rat is well on its way. No rat likes to be confined in a small unfamiliar place, the sound of gas coming in, even with a proper regulator and very gradual flow rates, can distress some rats. 

I would say that if people are keen they need to do there research, and speak to people who genuinely know what there doing, and witness one before trying it at home alone. I wouldn't be a fan of putting it up on a pet focused forum with access to the general public, there's plenty of snake and reptile forums where you can go for that and its quite a distressing topic for some people.

Honestly I don't see it as a replacement for the vets, I priced a set up up once and it was a good £50+ to do it well, with back up gas. I do see it as a useful "for emergencies only" option, where a rat is suffering badly and you know rats well enough to make that call alone, or with a rat who is terrified of people / new places / travelling (home visits from vets is very rare over here). Other than that a vet is generally the better option, they are trained to do it, and the anaesthetic gas plus heart injection method is very reliable and kind to the animal involved. Yes it costs, but I do think that pet owners should always keep a pot of money to cover a put to sleep, its the very minimum and is also usually a predictable cost


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

i think it is not a good topic for the forum at all. 

It is not something one should be encouraging others to do.

Alot of things can very easily go wrong if things are not done just right. And there is alot of debate on what is humane or not with different types.

It should not be taken lightly and should not be something done after just reading a post on a forum.


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## ponderosa (Oct 13, 2014)

I personally think this would be too risky. Even though I just spent over $100 on euthanasia at the vet, I would not feel comfortable attempting home euthanasia in case there is any risk that the animal might survive the procedure, which I would find inhumane at that point. My childhood dog was euthanized at home but a vet was called to the house to do it in order to make her more comfortable. 

I'd be concerned if knowledge of home euthanasia spreads, it might give ideas to cruel people on how to hurt other people by euthanizing their pets behind their back. Some evil people are pretty covert about the things they do.


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## Kokorobosoi (Jan 14, 2016)

I vote to end this post. Can we get it removed?


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## cookiebear<3 (Aug 2, 2013)

I'm in a rural area, so when cookie need to be pts I drove over an hour to my vet, where they kindly declined to charge me for her euthanasia.. By the level of uncontrollable sobbing there is no possible way I could euthanize a pet, I thought I had come to terms with it- apparently not. I just imagine someone thinking they could do it at home and changing their mind partway through.. ehh. With larger animals people might shoot them in cases of dire need, but it seems a gun is more distanced, quicker than gassing or other... home euthanasia methods... Also, as its been mentioned on many threads, care credit or a payment plan by the vet is an option for those caught off guard by sudden expenses.


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## Mene (Mar 13, 2015)

I'm sorry but I don't think this is acceptable. I understand that your desire to educate is motivated by concern, but if we were talking about dogs, the idea of DIY euthanasia would be filed under some sort of abuse. Sorry, but it's kind of not appropriate.


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## Ratloved (Oct 4, 2015)

I agree completely!!! Please remove


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I've so been trying to keep out of this thread... but as it has overall remained on the topic of whether or not to discuss euthanasia and not become a how to thread... So, I'll weigh in briefly.

For me this comes down to a benefit vs cost analysis. I can see the benefits of teaching painless and instant methods for euthanizing a rat at home. On the other hand I can also see the emotional cost of distressing forum members because no matter how you look at it, even with the most noble of intentions, we are talking about someone killing their best furry friend. Even more-so the distress involved in actually doing it themselves.

I think the emotional cost of a discussion of this kind is just too high on a forum like this one... that doesn't mean I'm pro or against do-it-yourself euthanization, I'm just saying it's too sensitive a topic to talk about.

I don't think this thread needs to be removed... I think it's fair to talk about what we should or should not talk about... but I don't think it should go any farther into methods or procedures until there's a general consensus that the forum policy should change. I might be persuaded otherwise, but for now, I tend to agree that things are best left alone.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

Rat Daddy said:


> I've so been trying to keep out of this thread... but as it has overall remained on the topic of whether or not to discuss euthanasia and not become a how to thread... So, I'll weigh in briefly.


I already deleted the how-to thread and would not let it exist even if N2O WAS considered a humane method of euthanasia. That's a mucky moral puddle that I won't be stepping foot into any time soon. Best be left to professionals, which most of us here are not.


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## Snowpea (Oct 23, 2015)

I can't help but ask,what is the point of a forum if we can't discuss important things such as this?where else is someone supposed to go? It is a painful and morally sticky topic but I thought that was why this forum existed. I understand noone wants this seen by some fool who thinks they can save money on their dogs vet bill with some baking soda and vinegar but I doubt they are the ones frantically searching rat forums in the dead of night when their rat is dieing a slow death and they live a hundred miles from nowhere. I have an opinion on the topic which I will respectfully keep to myself but I find it objectionable that people would call for this post to be closed cause it makes them feel icky. It is an opportunity for education and we all could use more of that even if it is just reading the different opinions.


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## hrl20100 (May 1, 2013)

I don't feel this thread should be closed, but if someone was to be looking for a way to euthanise an animal theirselves, not wanting to pay or can't afford the vet bills, then they shouldn't have the animal in the first place. Also, attempting to euthanize an animal yourself is incredibly irresponsible and stupid.

This thread will always be a debatable one, but I for one, disagree with euthanising an animal yourself. It should only be done by a licenced vet.


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## Snowpea (Oct 23, 2015)

I can't help but point out that just because a veterinarian has a licence does not mean they have experience with humanely dealing with rats.they practice on them(with exceptions) and may become desensitized to their suffering in a way that the owner of the rat does not understand. Even exotic vets can get compassion fatigue.I find the idea of a heart stick horrible in my personal opinion.no matter how sedated you are you feel it. And the old saying of if you can't afford a vet don't have a pet is outdated and frankly insulting.rats are rodents.I could go buy a rat trap or rat poison in the grocery store right now and it would not be considered animal cruelty.I find it unfortunate too now that I know how intelligent these animals are but its a hard fact.I think it is better to give the rats a chance at least.


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## Verucasdad (Aug 31, 2015)

Legality. Is it legal? Is it ethical? Everyone is going in circles about this. I think points have been made and it's time to switch to new and less morbid topics. Please do not generalize a group of people such as vets. For every unfeeling one, there are 1000's who grieve with you. Rats may be new to them. Help them learn.


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## Snowpea (Oct 23, 2015)

Not meant to generalize all vets,most are competent,caring,and capable.no offense meant. I'm just saying not everyone gets an A+ in school and its better to be well informed if you have to make this horrible decision. An open forum of rat lovers is what we all need,closing down a discussion is not the answer.I agree it is morbid but it is your choice to read it or not read it.if you can get to a vet that is always the best choice.people find these forums when they don't have that choice.those people should get the benefit of all of our combined experience be it unpleasant or peaceful.


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

Snowpea said:


> I can't help but point out that just because a veterinarian has a licence does not mean they have experience with humanely dealing with rats.they practice on them(with exceptions) and may become desensitized to their suffering in a way that the owner of the rat does not understand. Even exotic vets can get compassion fatigue.I find the idea of a heart stick horrible in my personal opinion.no matter how sedated you are you feel it. And the old saying of if you can't afford a vet don't have a pet is outdated and frankly insulting.rats are rodents.I could go buy a rat trap or rat poison in the grocery store right now and it would not be considered animal cruelty.I find it unfortunate too now that I know how intelligent these animals are but its a hard fact.I think it is better to give the rats a chance at least.


Well that is an awful way to see your pets  They are just rodents? Who cares??

They are supposed to be, beloved companions. That by taking them in as our pets we promise to do right by them and give them a good healthy non suffering life.

How is expecting people to see a vet outdated??? How absurd. What makes a rats life worth less then a dog? Do they suffer any less? Do they feel pain any less? 

I absolutely hate when people try the whole well their life is alittle bit better with me so that makes everything fine.... Everything could always be a bit better. If you are not giving them a good quality of life, neglecting them, or letting them suffer it is not ok at all, even if it could be worse. My husband could slap me around once every few months vs punching me out every week. Just because being slapped sometimes is not as bad does not mean it is a good life, or ok, or acceptable. Same things with animals... oh well I kick my dog when he makes me mad and forget to feed him for a few days and lots of times don't give him fresh water but hey he could be so much worse off so its ok! umm no it is not.

Letting any animal suffer in pain is cruel. Letting any animal die from something they could be treated and helped for is cruel. 

I feel sorry for your "rodents".


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I remember back in school they taught us we had freedom of speech, but I also recall that they wouldn't let us discuss philosophy in math class. Every forum has it's rules.


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## Verucasdad (Aug 31, 2015)

Discussion is great. Some topics are controversial. It's when people are adamant and a little brusque with their answering posts that we get a little out of hand. Respecting each other's opinions and way of thinking is utmost. To start calling out and berating is not cool. This is why I sometimes have a hard time here. I promised myself I wouldn't get too upset about things, but some of the strong opinions on here are bordering on being a little toxic. Trying to persuade someone to see it your way is great, but you won't win them over with negativity. General statements are hurtful as well as attacks on people because of their opinion. No one here walks in another's shoes all of the time. Circumstances for one is not automatically the same for another. Innocent thoughts and ways of seeing things can be corrected with better wording. No one is always going to see it your way. I take into account that there are some long time rat owners here but remember that you were where we are now at some time and most of us are not licensed vets or have any degrees in any kind of animal behavior. It's all really just layman experiences. I listen and I absorb. I course correct when it is logical and dispense when it's not. It's my own way.


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## Snowpea (Oct 23, 2015)

moonkissed said:


> Well that is an awful way to see your pets  They are just rodents? Who cares??
> 
> They are supposed to be, beloved companions. That by taking them in as our pets we promise to do right by them and give them a good healthy non suffering life.
> 
> ...


o
I think you became overwhelmed when you read my post and missed the true meaning behind it.I apologize if I offended you or anyone.to be clear,I never said taking your pet to the vet was out dated.i never have viewed my raties as just rodents.they live better than most people and not by just a little,I did my research.you need not pity my rodents. I believe all animals have a basic right to freedom from pain and veterinary care.if your pet is hurt sick or needs to be pts take it to your nearest vet as the situation dictates. I still have to think of the horse with the broken leg,how long do you wait?and if you've never done it before wouldn't you want to do it right? That's what I thought forums were for...


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