# Seriously thinking of putting this rat to sleep. Aggression issue



## cccgina1 (Nov 11, 2012)

I've had Herman and his brother Eddie since they were born. They are polar opposites. Herman bites when he is out having free range time, Esp when it is time to go in. He huffs and puffs and bites me hard. Several times he's drawn blood. He also beats up on Eddie. At this point, I'm afraid of him, though usually he is fine when in the cage. I don't know why he gets so aggressive at free range time. One time he walked up to me and just attacked my arm. My hand has 3 big bloody bite marks from trying to put him away tonight. I'm no rat expert, I've had several rats but none like this. . I am seriously thinking of taking him to the vet tomorrow to be PTS. I work two jobs and am still broke. Neuter isn't really an option, nor is spending hours trying to immerse him I dont think. Ideas?


----------



## SneakyLord (Mar 22, 2014)

I think it is highly cruel to kill an animal simply because they have aggression issues and you don't have the time or money to help it. I suggest rehoming him to an owner who does have money and time, and get your other rat 2 babies.


----------



## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

I am so sorry! It must be hard to have an aggressive rat. Hmm, it would probably be hard to rehome an aggressive rat. How old are they now? When did he start becoming aggressive?


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

This thread makes me so sick that despite reading it half asleep I was so bothered I had to wake back up and respond. Is this humanity? Disgusting. 

First, gotchea. Who thinks it's better to stick a pet rat in with a bloody snake to be eaten alive than to have the rat go to sleep and never wake up?!? Who suggests that on a pet rat forum?!? I hope the snake gets it's bleeding head bit off. What advice. 

Next, OP. What do you want us to suggest. You don't want to commit time or money, so you want some fast cheap miracle fix? Please. Take the pair to a rat shelter, give them to some one who is willing to commit. Failing that, why not just learn to deal with it than TO KILL A LIVING THING. Wear gloves, armor up, learn to have him come out of the cage in a carrier than touching him. That's cheap and quick enough. 


Yuck. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Hey-Fay (Jul 8, 2013)

ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?!? What is wrong with you two?!?! You DO NOT kill something just because it's aggressive! He can be REHOMED to someone WILLING to take care of him! And gotchea, wtf is wrong with you?! For one we don't discuss feeding rats to snakes on here because it's WRONG! OP, where are you? I will take those boys off your hands if you're ANYWHERE in MI. I personally don't think you should have rats, there's so many other options; you should NEVER consider pts unless the animal is truly suffering, not you.


----------



## Hey-Fay (Jul 8, 2013)

I am dead serious about taking them if you're in MI. If you're in Ohio I'll still take them. DO NOT have him killed, im sure someone can take them off your hands!!


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Look,
Biting animals take time to fix. It doesn't matter why they're biting, there's no quick fix. Immersion is as quick as it gets. You've had them since babies, you really think that a couple hours isn't worth it? He'd be better off dead?

It took about four hours a day for a week for me to fix my biter. I cried. I bled. My family called me crazy. When she stopped, I cried again. I was so happy. She's loony and living a fantastic life at three all happy in her colony. 

It's hard to fix a biting rat. Neutering can help, but you don't have to. All you have to do is armor up and reach out to your rat until it gets through his silly little brain biting is not okay. Maybe he's fearful and you have to spend this time explaining you won't eat him and he's safe. Maybe he's aggressive, he's learned that tooth and claw is the only thing people listen to. Maybe like mine he's blind and can't deal with the world. Whatever it is, it isn't a fatal affliction. 

I think you should really sit down, look him in the eyes and tell him - "I give up. You might as well be dead. " and decide if maybe you're just upset at being bit or if you really think it's the best option. Everyone gets frustrated with aggressive rats, and everyone gets upset when they're bit. I don't believe in blaming the animal or loving them less for it. 

Lord knows if the same extended to humans who were female dogs, they'd have put me down in puberty. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Hey-Fay (Jul 8, 2013)

Now that I've cooled off a little I'd like to take a step back and explain that life and death are not playthings you should to mess with. Just because he is aggressive does not mean that there's no hope for him. You owe it to him and his brother to give them a shot at life. Having him pts is cruel and shouldn't even be an thought much less an option. If you aren't up to trying immersion, something that is long and difficult and time consuming, then it's in everyone's best interest to find them both a new home with a dedicated owner who will tough it out with him and teach him right from wrong. He is a healthy active boy that has so much life and so much to live for. Yes, he's aggressive, but that can be fixed with dedication, love and compassion. Please don't have him pts, behavior can be changed and manners taught. Even if you don't live in MI or OH I'll bet my left hand that someone here on the forum can and will take him and his brother. Having him pts isn't a solution, it's a problem and it can be corrected by giving him to someone who's willing to teach him the appropriate behavior. And you, gotchea, that should NEVER be an option. Ever. We are a PET rat group. And as a owner of pet rats that thought should never cross your mind. I understand you're new here but you should have the common sense to know that your suggestion is not welcome and should never be a solution.


----------



## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

I'm not going to comment further on just how sick and wrong this is, however what doesn't make sense is that you say you're broke, and yet you can afford to have him PTS rather than just rehome him at no cost to yourself? That doesn't make sense. It's intentionally cruel to end his life on purpose and for no legitimate reason rather than rehome him and give him a chance with someone who cares and is willing to work with him. If you haven't even tried to work with him, you can't really say that there's no hope and he needs to be PTS. Where are you at? If you're near me, I'll definitely take him. I'm willing to spend as long as it takes to immerse him and work with him. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Charlottesmom (Nov 27, 2013)

Read the immersion thread, I have changed my opinion on immersion and think it might work very well on this boy, what have you got to lose?!? Also to get him back in his cage, if you know he is aggressive, get some good gloves and put him back with those! If I was Anywhere near you I would consider taking him too!! But I think YOU owe it to this guy to do your best to work with him. Don't just give up! There is no quick fix but both of your rats deserve to live out their natural lives, aggressive or not.


----------



## MimiSkye (Feb 3, 2014)

Yeah this is pathetic. I'm not tryna act like the best pet owner ever, but honestly, you should NOT be allowed to have pets. In fact, I would hope your vet would take them from you if you asked to put a perfectly healthy animal to sleep. When you adopt a pet, it comes with responsibility. Chances are, it's NOT gonna be perfect. Did you just expect to have two perfectly behaved rats? Most pet rats are socialized and friendly, but you should always be prepared for something like this. 

I am the type of person who likes animals more than people. I'm the girl who sees a barking, snapping dog and approaches it slowly, trying to make it feel comfortable. I have have the same respect for animal life as I do for human life. I know not everyone understands that....but I feel like to be a loving pet owner you have to at least see your pets as equals. You clearly do not have any respect for this poor boys life. Pets don't just attack for fun, there is always a reason. They may be injured, sick, confused, or most likely, scared.

As far as the comment about being fed to a snake instead of euthanasia....honestly, thats just sickening. Theres no excuse for that. I understand the fact that snakes need to eat too, but they should NEVER be fed a helpless animal. ESPECIALLY A PET. In the wild thats one thing...but I am completely against the idea of feeder rats. If thats the only thing a snake can eat, maybe people shouldn't have them as pets. I think it takes a certain kind of person to take a helpless rat and place it in a cage with a snake, knowing it will be eaten alive. I am not one of those people. And it makes me sad to think there are people out there who can do this and not think twice.


----------



## Kitterpuss (May 9, 2014)

Be nice peeps. This girl is obviously at the end of her tether with her pet, and feels like she has run out of options. I don't in any shape or form condone putting the animal to sleep, but she is here asking for advice, and attacking her isn't going to help her or the rat, but it may well drive her away and turn her off some of the very good advice that has been offered in this thread. x


----------



## deedeeiam (Apr 8, 2014)

MimiSkye said:


> In the wild thats one thing...but I am completely against the idea of feeder rats. If thats the only thing a snake can eat, maybe people shouldn't have them as pets. I think it takes a certain kind of person to take a helpless rat and place it in a cage with a snake, knowing it will be eaten alive.


You do realize that dogs and cats need meat to survive and thrive too, right? So unless you're a pet-less vegan, you might as well come down off your high-horse about what animals people should and shouldn't have. The circle of life takes place both inside and outside of captivity. To think otherwise is ridiculous. 


On the topic at hand, OP might be more interested in actual solutions rather than be ridiculed and berated for _seeking help_. She's obviously at the end of her rope. 

My rats have never had aggression issues, so I can provide much insight. However, I would consider wearing long sleeves and maybe some gloves when dealing with him. That way you won't telegraph your fear as much if you know your hands are safe from getting bit.


----------



## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

deedeeiam said:


> You do realize that dogs and cats need meat to survive and thrive too, right? So unless you're a pet-less vegan, you might as well come down off your high-horse about what animals people should and shouldn't have. The circle of life takes place both inside and outside of captivity. To think otherwise is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> On the topic at hand, OP might be more interested in actual solutions rather than be ridiculed and berated for _seeking help_. She's obviously at the end of her rope.
> ...


I mean she's seeking help, but then again they also said spending hours trying to immerse him isn't an option. If you don't have hours to spend working with an aggressive rat, what are you then supposed to do? To even consider for a second putting it down because you don't have the time to spend working with it is wrong. How are we then supposed to offer advice? 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## LeStan82 (Dec 31, 2013)

The best advice I can give you regarding your comments stated above, rehome them both to someone who knows a great deal on how to help him, or a shelter. There is no reason to pts or let him be snake food when he can potentially be helped. Just because you are not willing to put the time and effort into him doesnt mean someone else wont. He has the potential to be a great pet, he just needs work and someone to help him. I really hope you take this advice, and see that it is in the best interest for HIM......you need to do whats right for HIM, not take out frustations and make a bad decision.best wishes for you and him...


----------



## MimiSkye (Feb 3, 2014)

deedeeiam said:


> You do realize that dogs and cats need meat to survive and thrive too, right? So unless you're a pet-less vegan, you might as well come down off your high-horse about what animals people should and shouldn't have. The circle of life takes place both inside and outside of captivity. To think otherwise is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> On the topic at hand, OP might be more interested in actual solutions rather than be ridiculed and berated for _seeking help_. She's obviously at the end of her rope.
> ...


You are missing the point....humans and cats dont eat things ALIVE. Well, cats may kill some wild animals in the backyard but as far as their diets, they eat canned or dried cat food. I am not a vegetarien or vegan. I eat meat like most of the population. But what I don't do is take a defenseless animal and eat it while it is STILL ALIVE. I never said snakes shouldn't be allowed as pets, I said I don't agree with the idea of feeder rats... thats just MY PERSONAL opinion. Simply because I can't imagine ever having to feed something a LIVING animal. I don't care what kind of pet it is. If dogs were required to eat live mice, I would feel the same way. I don't like the idea of rats being bred and living a cramped, dirty cages just to be fed to a snake and die a painful, terrifying death. I'm not asking to ban feeder rats...I'm just saying in MY perfect world, there would be no such thing. 

My point was, the fact that someone offered the idea of feeding her PET RAT to a snake just because it was aggressive dusgusts me. Feeder rats are one thing, wild rats are one thing, but to feed a PET to a snake instead of peaceful euthanasia is barbaric in my eyes. Euthanising a perfectly healthy pet just because it is aggressive is bad enough. I think anyone with that mindset should not have rats as pets.


----------



## Kitterpuss (May 9, 2014)

deedeeiam said:


> You do realize that dogs and cats need meat to survive and thrive too, right? So unless you're a pet-less vegan, you might as well come down off your high-horse about what animals people should and shouldn't have. The circle of life takes place both inside and outside of captivity. To think otherwise is ridiculous.


I reckon they meant feeding snakes _live_ rats is wrong.

Edit - Beat me to it with the reply


----------



## LeStan82 (Dec 31, 2013)

IMO, there is always a way to say something without being rude and so defensive about it. There is also a big difference between circle of life in the wild and being thrown in a tank with something trying to kill you with no means of a way to escape. Thats the difference. In the wild that animal does have the chance to escape from preditors, a rat thrown in a tank doesnt have that option. IDC, how you look at it, its cruel.


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I wrote the immersion thread, it's there to help you. And there are other examples of extreme immersion that has fixed some pretty screwed up biting rats you can read on other threads.

I tend to agree that biting and aggressive rats shouldn't be kept as pets. They can be dangerous to other rat, to their owners, to young children and other pets. Generally I promote fixing them through immersion, It has a pretty excellent success rate. Sometimes it's been combined with neutering, not that I'm a fan of neutering... 

There are cases where rehoming is the right option, sometimes it just takes a different personality to handle a particular rat.

There are a very few rats with brain tumors mental illness and certain health conditions that can't be fixed. I'm thinking some rats do have to be pts as the final and only option. Unlike vipers, rats don't make good exhibit animals. They need social interaction and they are smart and will eventually get even more screwed up and get out and bite someone. 

There is a point where most people will get behind putting down a severely disturbed rat. But I don't get the sense that we are there yet with Herman.

Read the immersion thread, and fix him and hopefully you wont have to explore any options beyond that.

Best luck.


----------



## cccgina1 (Nov 11, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I wouldn't feel right rehoming this rat to just anyone, if there was a rat expert near me who wanted him, that would be different. But I won't take him to a shelter or put him on Craigslist because what if some kid adopts him? My finger is so swollen, it won't move. And it hurts like.... I have horses to take care of as well as working and I don't need this headache from a rat. I don't need to rehome Eddie, he is a sweetie. The other option is no more free range time for Herman. I wouldn't feed him to a snake, humane euthanasia is what I would do if it comes to that. I've calmed down since last night, but still. This is a problem. I'll read the immersion thread. I doubt I will trust him ever again.


----------



## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

haha woah... I never said that this person should or shoudn't, but if he/she can't handle it and wants to rehome it then that might end for this rat... I was just trying to say what would end up happening IF they tried to rehome the rat that is aggressive. More like opening this persons eyes to reality that it might be snake food in the end if they can't take care of it. Without calling them out for being a the worst person on the face of the earth....

Some of you are kind of harsh, rude and judgmental. Even though I wouldn't do that to a rat, rats are sometimes used as food in this world, it is life. Does it make me a bad person? haha. Well to some of you yes, but I can live with that. That's how I view things.


----------



## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

MimiSkye said:


> You are missing the point....humans and cats dont eat things ALIVE. Well, cats may kill some wild animals in the backyard but as far as their diets, they eat canned or dried cat food. I am not a vegetarien or vegan. I eat meat like most of the population. But what I don't do is take a defenseless animal and eat it while it is STILL ALIVE. I never said snakes shouldn't be allowed as pets, I said I don't agree with the idea of feeder rats... thats just MY PERSONAL opinion. Simply because I can't imagine ever having to feed something a LIVING animal. I don't care what kind of pet it is. If dogs were required to eat live mice, I would feel the same way. I don't like the idea of rats being bred and living a cramped, dirty cages just to be fed to a snake and die a painful, terrifying death. I'm not asking to ban feeder rats...I'm just saying in MY perfect world, there would be no such thing.
> 
> My point was, the fact that someone offered the idea of feeding her PET RAT to a snake just because it was aggressive dusgusts me. Feeder rats are one thing, wild rats are one thing, but to feed a PET to a snake instead of peaceful euthanasia is barbaric in my eyes. Euthanising a perfectly healthy pet just because it is aggressive is bad enough. I think anyone with that mindset should not have rats as pets.


I can guarantee any animal you eat that comes from a can has suffered longer and worse than his rat would. We all know how animals are treated that are used for food, just because it isn't alive when you eat it, doesn't mean it didn't suffer. You are taking a defenseless animal and eating it and you are trying to justify you are different than a rat just because you don't even kill it yourself??

So unless you are killing the animals you use for meat or milking your own cows, then you are causing massive suffering in TONS of animals as well. I also have my own chickens and animals so I KNOW where my food is coming from. My chickens are NOT de-beaked and confined in tiny spaces, my cows are out in pasture happily roaming around, none of my animals are abused or bleeding unlike the ones most people and pets on this forum eat. Where does any of your food come from?

My pet rat is a wild rat, who was going to be eaten by a snake. But I messed with nature and saved him.


----------



## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

gotchea said:


> I can guarantee any animal you eat that comes from a can has suffered longer and worse than his rat would. We all know how animals are treated that are used for food, just because it isn't alive when you eat it, doesn't mean it didn't suffer. You are taking a defenseless animal and eating it and you are trying to justify you are different than a rat just because you don't even kill it yourself??
> 
> So unless you are killing the animals you use for meat or milking your own cows, then you are causing massive suffering in TONS of animals as well. I also have my own chickens and animals so I KNOW where my food is coming from. My chickens are NOT de-beaked and confined in tiny spaces, my cows are out in pasture happily roaming around, none of my animals are abused or bleeding unlike the ones most people and pets on this forum eat. Where does any of your food come from?
> 
> My pet rat is a wild rat, who was going to be eaten by a snake. But I messed with nature and saved him.


Different than a snake*


----------



## ratmode (May 15, 2014)

OP, have you considered using Rat Daddy's immersion method to tame your rat? Apologies if this has already been mentioned. Please do not euthanize your rat by feeding it to a snake. For feeder rats that are unsocialized this can be OK, but for a socialized rat who has learned that a gigantic mammal is supposed to take care of and protect it, this is cruel.

Regards,

Rat Mode

EDIT: addendum, have you ever seen what happens when a snake tries to eat an adult rat? The ensuing fight is instructive, to say the least. You may end up harming the snake in addition to the rat.


----------



## Lita (Jul 10, 2014)

I am new to rats but i have had aggressive animals in the past. I have a blind guinea pig who will chase you down, I had another who would try to kill other guinea pigs and who would tear you up if he had access to skin. I have a rabbit who is distrustful and unpredictable and another who attacks other rabbits. It is not their fault, it is entirely the fault of how they were raised and treated. From what I have picked up if you don trust or even like him, and especially if you are fearful of him, he knows and reacts accordingly. What could have been a minir issue may have developed into a bigger problem. You can't train him to be friendly if your not on his side. Your best bet would be to rehome to a rat expert. There is a section on this forum for rehoming. I would post there and find someone who has a long history with rats. You cannot rehome him safely any other way tbh. Craigslist and shelters are to much of a risk, so you are right to avoid those. I honesly would re-evaluate your other rat as well. You would likely need another friend for him and there is no telling how that friend would end up personality wise or even if your "good" rat will stay cuddly. My most agressive guinea pig was great with cage mates for six months, and was best friends with my stubborn "alpha" pig while he was going through the rocky puberty stage. But out of no where he became grumpy and they fought and after that he became horribly dangerous to other pigs and a lot harder to handle. You never know how an animal will change and if you can't make the commitment to your problem rat you need to think if you will be able to make that commitment should things go south with your "good" rat.


----------



## Zabora (Jun 8, 2014)

I have had and still have an aggressive rat. She's wo derful with Dean and a great mom but she doesn't trust me. She's gotten my toes and fingers. She was a feeder rat and never socialized. We are still building a relationship that has been complicated by the birth of her babies. I don't put my fingers near her face. I give her treats on a spoon. I can sometimes pet her and even pick her up and put her on my shoulder now. It just takes time. If you are not willing to spend the time with your boy then you need to rehome him. If you are near Nevada I will take him.


----------



## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

Yes gotchea, you are right about meat humans eat for food. Now THERE is suffering. Hence why I basically do not eat meat.


----------



## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

DustyRat said:


> Yes gotchea, you are right about meat humans eat for food. Now THERE is suffering. Hence why I basically do not eat meat.


Me too! I was a vegetarian for 6 years because it made me so sad how animals are treated. My sister is a vegan, who actually doesn't care about animals at all really... Just for health reasons. I own my animals I use for food or I buy meat from barns that I know take care of their animals and that I have actually seen and visit and worked at. I know they are in good health and taken care of. A snake eating a rat is nothing compared to what we do to animals. Anyone here who eats meat or feeds their animals other animal product or wears leather shoes or has goose down jackets or pillows or goes to zoos or uses makeup/hair products that are tested on animals or anything else can NOT lecture me about animal rights and what pain and suffering is....


----------



## Bronte18 (Jun 2, 2014)

You shouldn't have rats as pets. When I first got my rescue rats Stefan and Damon, I basically needed stitches on my hand because he would bite me so aggressively, and guess what? Stefan is still here, cuddling up to me as I write this. He was the most aggressive rat ive ever came across and still he bites everybody that goes near him apart from me. I understand him, he was abused and terrorised by his previous owners and starved and kept in a dark room. I understand why he hates humans, I am so very grateful of the love he has GIVEN me. I am a part of HIS world, and I will be with him until his very last day to love and care for him as he needs. YOU should not have a pet if your not willing to stand by him 100% through anything, a pet is for life. You clearly aren't putting in the work, the immersion thread helped me tonnes, there were days I felt like giving up because he was so vicious and I couldn't even open the cage doors without him chewing my finger off, I still need to tell him im going to pick him up otherwise he will be angry, and rightfully so. if someone terrorised you as a kid you would grow up hating them, its the same with rats. Give this rat to someone who will care for him and don't be so selfish. Save money, get him neutered.


----------



## LeStan82 (Dec 31, 2013)

cccgina1 said:


> Thanks for the replies. I wouldn't feel right rehoming this rat to just anyone, if there was a rat expert near me who wanted him, that would be different. But I won't take him to a shelter or put him on Craigslist because what if some kid adopts him? My finger is so swollen, it won't move. And it hurts like.... I have horses to take care of as well as working and I don't need this headache from a rat. I don't need to rehome Eddie, he is a sweetie. The other option is no more free range time for Herman. I wouldn't feed him to a snake, humane euthanasia is what I would do if it comes to that. I've calmed down since last night, but still. This is a problem. I'll read the immersion thread. I doubt I will trust him ever again.


Yes, only rehome him with someone who knows how to deal with his aggression and that can help him. Yes, I agree it would not be wise to adopt him out on craigslist or to any kid. Some shelters or rescue groups may have the experience and knowledge to be able to help him. They would not adopt him out to a family that would not be able to handle his situation or they would not adopt him out until he can be straightened out. You would just have to talk with rescue groups to see if they have someone who can help him. You can also post an ad here explaining his situation and your round about location and see if people on this forum are close enough that can/ would be willing to adopt him and help him. Good luck, hope all works out well for you and him.


----------



## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

gotchea said:


> Me too! I was a vegetarian for 6 years because it made me so sad how animals are treated. My sister is a vegan, who actually doesn't care about animals at all really... Just for health reasons. I own my animals I use for food or I buy meat from barns that I know take care of their animals and that I have actually seen and visit and worked at. I know they are in good health and taken care of. A snake eating a rat is nothing compared to what we do to animals. Anyone here who eats meat or feeds their animals other animal product or wears leather shoes or has goose down jackets or pillows or goes to zoos or uses makeup/hair products that are tested on animals or anything else can NOT lecture me about animal rights and what pain and suffering is....


Yes! Animal testing results are ALL around us! And those animals suffer unspeakable horrors. They are forced to suffer in order to mainly benefit their tormentors. Rats and mice aren't even protected under the Animal Welfare Act. It's a tough situation though, I had to write a whole research essay on animal experimentation. On the one hand, of course it's evil to torture innocent animals, but on the other hand scientific and medical progress is very important. The stats about how useful animal experimentation has actually been are shocking. Many new drugs tested on animals do not even get approved, wasting thousands of animal lives. Animal testing also isn't as reliable as we might think, because they are, after all, animals and we are humans. There's differences. There have been drugs that proved safe to animals, but when released on the market to humans, actually killed people. I read about some interesting alternatives to live subject testing of any kind where they build a computer chip model of a human or animal system, organs and all, and are able to run a chemical or whatever through the chip to see how it reacts to the body system. I think it would be good to start putting more energy and money into pursuing these alternatives rather than wasting it hurting animals. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

LeStan82 said:


> Yes, only rehome him with someone who knows how to deal with his aggression and that can help him. Yes, I agree it would not be wise to adopt him out on craigslist or to any kid. Some shelters or rescue groups may have the experience and knowledge to be able to help him. They would not adopt him out to a family that would not be able to handle his situation or they would not adopt him out until he can be straightened out. You would just have to talk with rescue groups to see if they have someone who can help him. You can also post an ad here explaining his situation and your round about location and see if people on this forum are close enough that can/ would be willing to adopt him and help him. Good luck, hope all works out well for you and him.


Many rat-specific or exotic/small animal rescues have "sanctuaries" where they allow problem rats to live out in comfort.


----------



## ratmode (May 15, 2014)

ksaxton said:


> I read about some interesting alternatives to live subject testing of any kind where they build a computer chip model of a human or animal system, organs and all, and are able to run a chemical or whatever through the chip to see how it reacts to the body system. I think it would be good to start putting more energy and money into pursuing these alternatives rather than wasting it hurting animals.


My research is in bioinformatics and I personally think this is the future of drug design. We're getting to the point where more and more work is done _in silico_ - that is, in the computer - that used to need tissue samples. As the complexity of machines evolves we will get closer and closer to simulating entire animals. We can already simulate the molecular binding of drugs to macromolecules with EXTREMELY high accuracy, so instead of needing tissue samples to see how nAChR reacts to a drug, we can just do it in the computer, find the best candidate, and move on to animal models. Eventually the animal models will be replaced with computers too! 

That being said, a peculiarity of the literature is that when a paper mentions killing rats, it uses the word "sacrifice". We sacrifice the lives of these rats so that we might save the lives of many more humans. Is this speciesist? Maybe. There's no doubt that killing animals is not preferable. Also, I don't know about the protection status of rats and mice but I can tell you that when we use them in the lab, we take good care of them - we need healthy animals for good models, after all! I'm sure there are bad labs out there too but the rats I've used have always been healthy, happy rats. (I've never had to sacrifice a rat or do any testing that would be considered inhumane.)


----------



## LeStan82 (Dec 31, 2013)

nanashi7 said:


> Many rat-specific or exotic/small animal rescues have "sanctuaries" where they allow problem rats to live out in comfort.


This would be great cccgina if you could find a place like this.


----------



## Aeyna (Jun 16, 2014)

I feel like this thread is getting off topic... I'm not trying to be rude, but OP posted and I think they need help now that they calmed down. 

cccgina1, where are you located? Maybe someone on here can help you out. Or we could make a train and get him to someone who can help him.


----------



## Hey-Fay (Jul 8, 2013)

My offer still stands. I've worked with aggressive rats before and I'm willing to take him in and teach him right from wrong. I will not give up on him. I have the patience and the drive and it may take a while but I'm fine with that. I know that I can turn him around. I've worked with aggressive animals my whole life, from dogs and cats to some screwed up rats. If you're in MI or OH I beg of you to let me take him.


----------



## cccgina1 (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm in Los Angeles, CA. I'd be glad to meet halfway or drive him anywhere near me.

He's not screwed up because of a bad experience. He's been here his whole life, same as Eddie. Eddie doesn't act like this!

My whole hand is swollen, I can hardly get my barn work done. I'm glad you all have sympathy for Herman, but this cannot go on for me.

I have their dad, former classroom rat. Talk about screwed up. Serious ptsd. But he doesn't bite, just hates to be picked up. So I leave him alone. Meaning, I don't try and pick him up, he still gets attention and treats. He doesn't like to go out of his igloo much, and that's fine. So Eddie won't be alone if Herman is gone, he still lives with his dad.


----------



## Hey-Fay (Jul 8, 2013)

Then surrender him to a shelter. They can work with him and place him a foster home where the fosters can work with him. What do you have to lose?? Give him another shot at life, don't just put him down because you don't want to bother with him any more!!


----------



## Charlottesmom (Nov 27, 2013)

cccgina1 said:


> My whole hand is swollen, I can hardly get my barn work done. I'm glad you all have sympathy for Herman, but this cannot go on for me.


Get some first aid, even rubbing alcohol would help (probably hurt like a *you know what* but would help). Rat bites can be very nasty! Seriously though invest in some good gloves if you want him to continue to have out of the cage play while you either work with him or find him a new home with someone who works with agressive rats. I really wish I was closer, we are in MA so not exactly close....Just curious nothing else, but have you read the immersion sticky? If you are not cool with that way of training please look into the trust training one. I think if you put in the time you could really see some major improvements. I'm sorry some of the posters jumped on you, but you have to understand some of these ladies and gents work with agressive/formerly agressive animals and feel very strongly about "getting rid of" a problem child. I really do wish you all the best, and hope you do what is best for not only you but also for Herman.


----------



## rileys-mom (May 26, 2014)

Have you considered having him neutered?


----------



## Jackie (Jan 31, 2013)

rileys-mom said:


> Have you considered having him neutered?


It says she doesn't have the money to neuter him.

My opinion: shelter or follow that immersion thread. My only experience is a hamster that bit and I did the glove technique. Eventually he stopped biting. Immersion can work much faster, but yeah you're going to want some thick gloves!!!


----------



## SneakyLord (Mar 22, 2014)

An animal, anything, should only be put to sleep if its suffering is so great, so without hope, this becomes the final option, the nice option. Your rat has merely bit you and you can't be arsed to give your money and time to it? Rats get sick very easily, when Eddies older he will cost you hundreds and when they're really old you'll need to think about syringe feeding/drinking and meds, which can take some time. Just get rid of them, your complaining that you have had enough then just get rid of them, post an ad somewhere, some kid takes em? Fine. I bet they will put twice as much heart and effort into getting your rat right. You can't kill something because you have had enough, that's not the way it works.


----------



## neenerz17 (Jul 18, 2014)

you have already had an earful of reasons why you should not put him down. because its really, really really messed up. do some trust bonding. if you dont have time or patience or money to take care of your poor baby boy give him to a home that actually knows how to take care of rats


----------



## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Assuming that it's even remotely okay to euthanize an animal because you don't have the inclination to work on their behavior, it's about the same price as a surgery. The money can't be argued as an issue there.

If you don't have the time to work on your animal's behavior, then you need to rethink the concept of keeping animals. They don't come to you pre-trained very often, and even then, it's something you have to keep after to maintain. If you don't have the time, then I'd consider rehoming all of your rats.

What happens when you put this one down and get another (to keep the one that you like happy) that ends up needing training as well?

If pets aren't for you, that's absolutely fine. It is something that you need to come to terms with, though, before continuing.


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

As most folks here know, I wrote the immersion thread and I've helped more people fix their biting rats than almost anyone here... I honestly believe that immersion or extreme immersion can help Herman, whether the OP does it or finds someone to adopt Herman out to that has the time, experience and patience to do it, there's a very high likelihood Herman can be saved and re-socialized. 

I also get the sense that the OP doesn't really want to put Herman to Sleep, but rather came here looking for options.

So let's all calm down and try to do some good by helping... And BTW I love the folks that have offered to open their homes to Herman, taking in a biting rat is no picnic. And I'm sure there are now plenty of folks here that have done immersions that can help along with me to get Herman straightened out.

But now that we've all taken a deep breath... there are some rats that have serious organic problems, they may be in some kind of severe pain, or they may have brain tumors, or they may actually suffer from mental illness that absolutely can't be fixed. And dumping them on some poor kids through Craig's list is no kindness to anyone. Rats also make very poor exhibit animals and go antisocial and escape and hurt people and other pets... 

I think it's too early to put Herman to sleep as other options have yet to be tried, and other folks have offered him a good home, but for a very few rats it's the only option. It's a really crappy option, it's hard to read about and hard on the human who has to do it... I know this is an emotional issue, but lets try to stay calm and be helpful... because if after everything has been done that can be done, this story might have a sad ending and a bunch of folks throwing stones rarely helped anybody. While I strongly agree with everyone that wants to see Herman saved, I can't imagine how bad it would feel to have to put any of my girls to sleep, even if they couldn't be helped. I wouldn't need anyone to make me feel worse about it.


----------



## cccgina1 (Nov 11, 2012)

Herman is still here, I'm deciding whether to just restrict his free range time, because that's when he bites. As far as it being 'just a rat bite,' I have an infected hand, on antibiotics, and need a tetnus shot. It's serious. And painful. Not easy to clean a stall with one hand or do anything for that matter. He escaped today when I was petting the rats, but I caught him without him biting me. Maybe because he didn't get far. Anyway, I'll read the immersion thread.


----------



## ratbasket (Apr 26, 2014)

I would suggest getting some really thick gloves and just letting him out for free range and if he chomps the glove then you put him in a time-out. This is basically the whole method that I used to stop my mouse from biting. She is fine now and very friendly! I think that just going in there and letting Herman know that biting is NOT OKAY whatsoever is the thing to do if you want to keep him. That is basically immersion but you could just start with his free range. (Yes I do realize that immersion is most effective when done until the rat submits to you as the boss but we need to start somewhere right?) Also don't freak out if he bites the glove, rats can see emotions and he will keep trying to bite the glove to get you to submit, don't back down and show him that you control his free range. Sorry, that's about the best advice I can offer Good Luck!


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

Some suggestion is to hold a fist so the rat can get used to your scent without biting you. If the rat looks like he's going to strike, push him around lightly until he calms down. Eventually he'll want to flee from you because what you're doing is annoying and also basically dominating him. Keep doing this a lot for a few days, you're going to be a bully to the bully. Use gloves if needed, I wouldn't recommend pinning down because you may harm the animal doing so. I had a rat that I caught outside and she would bite everyone, leaving people bleeding. Now she wont bite me or my fiancé whatsoever, but I can't say the same for other people since they have different scents and she doesn't know better. This is how I know that I properly domesticated her. Sorry but love and compassion is not enough to raise an animal or a human. In my book, that's animal and child abuse. You need to make the foundation for their lives and if as a parent you fail to do that, then you fail as a parent. So if you can't fix your rat, what will happen if you have a child?


----------



## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

Even if you can't help your rat, there's always someone who can. I'm not going to tell you you're sick for considering putting an aggressive animal to sleep because that's just the way we've been trained to think unfortunately. But seriously, find someone who understands the situation and rehome him if you can't handle it. A stressed rat around an equally stressed human isn't doing anyone any good.


----------

