# Potentially half wild ratlets - worth the gamble?



## Isobella (Sep 20, 2012)

A well respected breeder who is a friend of a friend is awaiting the arrival of a litter of kittens in the next week or so. Only problem is the preggers mama may have had a one night stand with some Rattie Russell Brand type as she was rescued from the street as a suspected dumped or escaped stray.

I have experience of rescues, but what about the potential wild card? Will this make a huge impact on the way they are?? Do wild rats have different, innate, diseases? Instincts will be different? 

Worth taking some on, or best left to the ultimate Rattie professional?


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

Isobella said:


> A well respected breeder who is a friend of a friend is awaiting the arrival of a litter of kittens in the next week or so. Only problem is the preggers mama may have had a one night stand with some Rattie Russell Brand type as she was rescued from the street as a suspected dumped or escaped stray.
> 
> I have experience of rescues, but what about the potential wild card? Will this make a huge impact on the way they are?? Do wild rats have different, innate, diseases? Instincts will be different?
> 
> Worth taking some on, or best left to the ultimate Rattie professional?


Well, I can keep you posted on how it continues to go but I'm currently raising a wild born pup. He's more reactive than a typical domestic - his ears swivel and pick up every single sound, he'll dive to hide if he hears something that scares him. He's also a lot more food driven than domestics. 

You also have no option but to get males neutered, much of the time. Their hormones just exacerbate wild behaviors. 

Something that helped me come to terms with what it would mean to be raising and owning one was looking up a rat by the name of Szerafina. Her owners in Hungary adopted her when she was orphaned. She's full wild but her owners have a lot of videos of her behavior with them and with other rats. Simply googling "Szerafina rat" should turn up results for her. 

Hope I helped.


----------



## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Half wildies vary quite a lot, some are brilliant, very much like particularly fit and active pet rats, some are very difficult to handle but great to watch. I would try and meet them growing up and see how you click if your friend doesn't mind. Just make sure they've been treated for mites and had a precautionary lot of panacur and septrin/synulux when old enough to clear anything their mum may have picked up.

One of my friends is helping a girl in this situation, she's taken in a doe found wandering around in someones back garden who had 15 babies last night. Currently we have everything crossed that these babies are not half wildies, as it will effect there chances of them going to good homes. It shouldn't be bad to tell as wild rats are generally agouti, the mum in this case is a hooded mink, if all the babies are agouti berkshire or self then they are probably wild, if not then they are from before the mum was released.


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

Isobella said:


> A well respected breeder who is a friend of a friend is awaiting the arrival of a litter of kittens in the next week or so. Only problem is the preggers mama may have had a one night stand with some Rattie Russell Brand type as she was rescued from the street as a suspected dumped or escaped stray.
> 
> I have experience of rescues, but what about the potential wild card? Will this make a huge impact on the way they are?? Do wild rats have different, innate, diseases? Instincts will be different?
> 
> Worth taking some on, or best left to the ultimate Rattie professional?


Also... Worth noting: Tell your friend she absolutely must handle the babies as much as possible. Hopefully she'll pass on the information. 

Exposure to humans and socialization goes a LONG way with how much wild instincts show up. If you can, also help handle them. They need exposure to humans. I've ended up handling Ras more than half the day and he's still sort of skittish at times, especially if my place is loud when I go to pick him up.


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

We had a half wild girl, and she was an amazing rat and very good with my 6 year old daughter. She had abilities pet rats only dream of. As to being food driven... she only tasted novel foods and wouldn't eat more of it until she was sure it was ok to eat, usually by the next day. So new treats usually went over like a lead balloon in terms of motivational aids. 

She was very sensative to noises, I mean she would jump if someone on another floor dropped something, and she rarely if ever crossed open spaces, preferring to stay near walls or under things. By the age of one year old, if I called her quietly from anywhere in the house she would pop up out of nowhere within a matter of seconds... but if I raised my voice for any reason she would be gone for hours.

Overall, she was just like a pet wolf. She was loving and wonderful, but if you annoyed her, she could turn into a ball of gnashing teeth and flailing claws... actually even then she didn't usually bite, but it was a definate freak out. And she could evaporate into thin air... there was nothing she couldn't climb and she liked high places and the insides of plushy furniture... But most importantly, there is a certain liability risk... 

First she had to hear somone's voice, then she had to sniff them, then she would give the person a little lickie to approve of them... then the new person could pet and touch her.... If someone just grabbed her, they were going to get severely bit. A neighbor made this mistake. He was very macho and recently x military so he didn't go to the emergency room, but this could have otherwise wound up to be very expensive. She also killed mice and other small animals.

Lastly, for the female variety, at about 8 to 12 weeks old, your rattie is very likely to make a break for freedom. She'll go from very dependant to very independant like throwing a switch. And one day, poof, she'll be gone. Mine eventually turned up... she came indoors when it got cold outside. She apparently did very well on her own and came home in strikingly fit condition, spotless with every hair neatly in place and not pregnant. Beware the switch flip when the hormones kick in, because one minute you will be playing and the next she'll just be gone.

That said... if and only if you can hand raise her from birth you have a great shot at an amazing friend. You will need to put in many many hours to raise her. And when normal young rats do the dominance play fighting thing, I promise you that a rat that can jump at you from several feet away can be pretty scarey. You will need to manage this with a strong hand to remain the alpha. She isn't likely to really attack or bite you, but the playfighting can get pretty wild.

There's no way to describe the difference between raising a pet domestic rat and a half wild, and likely each rattie is different to some degree, but I second unlikelyfather's comment that the half wild absolutely needs to be handled constantly from birth. Part wilds are just too agile, fast and and high strung to socilize once they are over 6 weeks old.

Generally, I wouldn't recommend wilds, half wilds or part-wilds for most people. Most 100% domestic rats make great pets and really can't be improved much on. But when our Victorian ancestors started the rat fancy, they actually only had wild rats to work with and it apparently worked out well enough to start the fancy, so at one time it was commonplace. So I suppose, if you are the kind of person that wants a pet lapdog, these rats are likely not for you, if you would prefer a pet wolf or wolf x dog cross and you have the time and interest they might work well for you.

I'd like to make one final comment, from my experience... as these guys most likely have a pretty full set of wild instincts... they can be released to "the wild" where they will do about as well as their not too distant relatives. When on her own, my rattie moved in with my neighbor's pit bulls, sharing their food and smell to keep preditors away... Yes like some dogs she would rub herself on nasty smells to cover her scent. And by the way, no cat ever had any interest to find out where the smell of pit bull terrior was coming from. For the whole time she was outside, we didn't have a single stray cat in the yard. I'm not big on building rat exhibits, nor do these babies need to be put down if they can't be socialized. Once they are about two months old living free is a real option for them, keep this in mind if they don't work out as pets.

Good luck!


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

Rat Daddy said:


> As to being food driven... she only tasted novel foods and wouldn't eat more of it until she was sure it was ok to eat, usually by the next day. So new treats usually went over like a lead balloon in terms of motivational aids.


I agree. New food and Ras is exceptionally cautious. He sniffs at it, backs away from it, gives it a tiny lick, and does this 4 or 5 separate times before he'll take a sampling nibble. If he decides not to take a sampling nibble, you're not going to get him to. Period. 

However, for food he already knows he likes?

He will dash up any arm, scale any surface, flat out pounce/tackle and gnash with his teeth, he'll stand on hind feet, scrabble around in a frenzy, and my personal favorite: bite and hold in an all out tug of war for domination of the food. 

It seems to come from survival instinct. When he's hungry and there is trustworthy food nearby, he's in a demanding frenzy to ensure that he'll be able to eat it. 

Basically, don't introduce a wild or half wild to human foods that you plan to consume because you might not get to eat your breakfast.


----------



## Isobella (Sep 20, 2012)

You have all been exceptionally helpful - thank you! Having taken everything that each of you has said on board, I have decided not to take on any wild ratlets. Considering the enormous amount of effort and emotion that went in to socialising two pairs of pet shop bred/rescued rats, and knowing how much I struggled, I don't think I have the skills or know-how to handle an animal that deserves either someone who is confident in what they are doing, or their freedom to live naturally in an environment that they are innately equipped to inhabit. Rescue rats were a real test for me, and ultimately a success story, but at times it felt insurmountable. If a wild rat is that experience amplified by 1000% then I am certain that I would, at this point, find it extremely difficult; as much as I hate to admit defeat - or accept that I can't do something!! 

Thanks again, guys.


----------



## Isobella (Sep 20, 2012)

I really look forward to watching your story with Rasputin unfold! I hope he's better after his choking scare!


----------



## Isobella (Sep 20, 2012)

Thanks so much for taking the time to write this, Rat Daddy, you helped a great deal. It's also a pretty neat story/anecdote. CongRATS (see what I did there?) on your successful wild Rattie, I love that she came back when it got cold.


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

Isobella said:


> I really look forward to watching your story with Rasputin unfold! I hope he's better after his choking scare!


He is, thank you. 

He's a handful at times, but he's also incredibly sweet and tucks himself into my clothing for naps. He licks fingers and peers into camera lenses every time I go to take a photo. When he's scared, he burrows into me because I'm the one that hand raised him.

At the same time that he's undeniably wild in genetics, he's been less intimidating than I thought he would be from all the stories I've heard. 

But he is young and I've still got a bunch to observe. I'll try to keep everyone updated on developments. It's an adventure for me and probably not one I'd have undertaken if the wildlife center had been willing to take him or there'd been any other choice. I completely understand not volunteering yourself to take on a half wild when domestic compatibilities have been issues.


----------



## Isobella (Sep 20, 2012)

I like to chuck myself in at the deep end - hence accepting someone's request that I take on abused rescue rats as my very first pet rats. I thought it was heroic of me, but it was in actual fact just plain stupid. I am relatively new to rats as I said in my first post re Toby and Markus, so taking on the responsibility of a wild, from eveything you've said in this thread, would just be a very bad idea. It was put to me that it wouldn't be that big a deal since the mum rat is domestic. I'm just not taking the chance. I would like to gain more experience, become more confident and learn more before electing myself to be Ms Dr Doolittle. Luckily I have found a local, fantastic, breeder so I can build up my confidence with some healthy, socialised, and happy rats. (I obviously love T & M bits, don't get me wrong, and would home rescue rats in a heart beat - I just know it's been a turbulent journey).

You are obviously doing a great job and should be commended, from the photos and posts on here there is an obvious bond between both of you. It's lovely!


----------



## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

I'll say the same thing to you that I'd have said to myself two and a half weeks ago:

Don't take them on unless there's literally no other choice to provide them any kind of life. I took Ras on because there was no one in my area would. People wanted to make him food for other animals or leave him to die. There are no rat rescues in my area except for one that most definitely would not takes wilds. 

So, if it comes to it, act in necessity but don't voluntarily take it upon yourself if you have no experience or preparation for what you're getting into.

Also, adopting orphaned rats means losing *so much sleep.* Haha.


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Actually there's a little misunderstanding here wild type rats are not like rescue rats at all. Rescue rats are often screwed up and can be very hard to socialize, but when you succeed you get pet rat. Wild types if you get them young enough are not screwed up. They will often socialize pretty well actually... but instead of winding up with a pet rat you wind up with a well socialized wild type rat.

Most of the difficulty in maintaining the wild type is because it has amazing abilities. My domestic rats usually stay on a table, my wild type didn't mind the jump down or would always find some way off almost instantly, moreover when I called he back she could shinny up an electrical chord and pop back up on the table in seconds, or perhaps turn up on top of the fridge. I left her and my domestic on the window sill. The domestic stayed put, she evaporated, when I called her she ran behind the adjacent file cabinet, put her back against the cabinet and rat strait up the semigloss painted wall to get back on the windowsill. One day she disappeared in my bedroom. The next day I found she slit open the bottom of the box spring and built herself a nest inside. On the up side she never did any real damage or ate wires, so it was ok to leave her roam the house, unlike my domestic that eats wires. 

Wild type ratties can make wonderful friends, but not really true pets... You more or less negotiate boundries. With mine... it was open the cage and talk... she was the first at the door, then it was sniff.. she came and licked my hand... then it was pick her up and she was happy to be handled. The thought of reaching in and grabbing her never crossed anyone's mind; not after I saw my neighbor with his hand wrapped in a blood soaked towel.

Like I said, rescue rats and wild types are very different... because of the wild types high strung nature and super-rat abilities, I can't imagine how you would even go about socializing an adult, there's no way you would ever be able to catch it or handle it safely, but as a baby it can bond to you just like a pet rat. And it can grow up to be a very well trained and well behaved pet wolf. 

And yes unlikelyfather, I did notice my part wild, wild type didn't pick food and run off to hide it like my domestic. She ate it right on the spot when she knew what it was. But have you noticed they don't seem to gain weight like the domestics? Mine always stayed lean and fit, about 9 oz as an adult. I didn't much notice the difference in food grubbing, because my 23 oz domestic girl will fight me for food too... she's just a lot more controllable; she weebles wheras the wild-type flew.

And I'm not sure how old your guy is, but I'll give you a heads up if you haven't reached play fighting yet... Mine never actually bit me during play fighting, but she did leap at me from quite a distance and she looked pretty fierce. She really scared my daughter who was 5 at the time. I cut that kind of play pretty short before she got too carried away. My advise is if your rattie goes through that phase make sure to maintain control and never let your rattie win. If you're not the alpha, you could wind up in big trouble.

Two other points, keep your guy away from other small animals, my rat killed mice and other small animals on sight (I got bit trying to save a white mouse when my hand got in between) and watch how your wild type plays with your domestics. During introductions, my wild type got bites from my domestic on her hind quarters, my domestic had fang marks around her trachia. My girl was able to stop herself from killing her roomie... but just barely, a fraction of an inch deeper and she would have been an only rat. 

Other quick things you may not have noticed yet, your wild type can flatten himself to fit through and under almost anything, and is fast enough to get himself into serious trouble trying to get through closing doors or under people's feet. They are just quick enough to get themselves killed before you can do anything about it. Our reflexes are a lot slower than theirs. The very same abilities that keep them safe in nature are likely to get them killed in domesticity.

All of that said, my part wild was our first rat, and we actually thought she was normal for pet rats, then come to find out, our next rat was actually a lot easier and safer. We loved our little pet wolf and she loved us. I can see how Victorians fell in love with these types of rats and how the hobby got started. Wild type rats are flat out amazing animals, they deserve respect and need to be handled with just a little caution, but they are super smart and they can be just as loving as any pet rat. And you will learn so much about rats so fast it might make your head spin. When one loves and trusts you you can really feel it and it's an experience I wouldn't have missed. If these rat pups were in NJ, I might even be tempted to take one in if I could have it at about 4 weeks old.

That said... pet wolf or dog? I'm pretty sure sanity dictates the I would have to recommend the dog. And I can well understand why most people would avoid wild types given a choice. That's not to say you can't wind up with a domestic that has issues, or even some wild type qualities; they are out there and I believe that some people are actually breeding crosses on purpose. But when you take in a known wild-type you know you are in for a strange trip. Isobella, I'm pretty sure you are making the right choice for yourself now. If you really like the deep end, some day you might give wild types a try, and likely you'll pull it off and find it very rewarding, but remember don't even think of older or unsocialized ones and remember, you will have to adapt to your rat's needs and special skills more than it can likely adapt to you.

Last footnote: When my wild type was free ranging, she was spotted by people over 1/4 mile from my home. Her free range territory was several blocks in at least one direction. And from what we could tell, she patrolled it from her home base regularly in search of food or whatever... Anyone thinking of setting up a display cage for wild rats should keep this in mind. Wild rats have very large ranges and aren't likely to be happy in a box. If I had to guess, I'm going to say her patrol was at least a mile a day and I live near some commercial industrial areas where she wouldn't have been seen. Actually, this is something all rat keepers should keep in mind... healthy young rats really need lots of room to explore and be happy.


----------

