# I think my rat had a seizure, maybe... what do you think?



## morsel (Feb 10, 2017)

My rat Gus is the last one of my super old rats that's left, he's now several months over four years old. He's a male rat and lost the use of his rear legs sometime ago (which is common in old boys), but shows no sign of slowing down or any other discomfort and still acts young. He has never been to the vet for anything except when he was neutered when he was a wee boy, basically he's amazing and defying all odds for a lab rescue rat.Anyway, last night I was hanging with him on the couch like I do and all of a sudden he cured up, was shaking a little, ears back, squeaking, and his right arm was sort of flailing around and swiping at his face with it. I've never seen him do this before and seemed really not please with what ever was going on, uncomfortable for sure. Then after a literal 5, maybe 10 seconds of this he stopped and then was absolutely fine. Then about another hour went by and he did the exact same thing again. I thought at first on the first one maybe he was having a stroke, but seriously no ill effects afterwards and acted like nothing was wrong, and then it happened again...Anyone ever had a rat do this type off thing or know what it may be?Thanks,Jason


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## shibezone (Feb 5, 2018)

This sounds a lot like what I've seen in videos of rats having epileptic seizures, especially regarding swiping at his face. This might be a little hard to watch but here's a video of a rat having an episode that might help you identify what was happening to him: https://youtu.be/tOk9Rpk673I?t=3m30s (the seizure is worst around 3:30). If this looks right and he continues having episodes I'd get in touch with your vet to see if you can start him on medication to reduce any issues he might have. I hope Gus is doing okay now!


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## morsel (Feb 10, 2017)

Well, crap as they say, yep that pretty much looks exactly like what happened, including the ears back and everything...Thanks so much for sending this to me, looks like old man Gus gets his first vet visit this week...Jason


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## shibezone (Feb 5, 2018)

I'm glad I could help, even if it's not ideal news! I'd take that video with you to the vet and show them so they know what it looked like, I'm not sure if this 'style' of seizure can be caused by things other than epilepsy, but it's something to ask them about for sure. Update us when you find out what was up or what they want to do!


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## morsel (Feb 10, 2017)

Yes, good idea on taking that video with me, and again, this really makes it clear on what happened and what it is...Jason


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## morsel (Feb 10, 2017)

I wanted to follow up to this post just to let everyone know what came out of the seizures and going to the vet. The vet looked over my old man and thought for his age that he was amazing first off, which was great news, breathing and teeth and overall health looked great for a rat over four, she actually said he had more energy then other younger rats she's worked with... which is overall great news.Now for future reference and others reading this, when I spoke to her about the seizures she asked how often he was having them. I said I've seen him have three total, but I'm at work all day and spend several hours with him a night and then go to bed, so I really have no idea... but three in a weeks time, two were back to back the same night. Her advice overall was to do nothing, he wasn't having them regularly and not often enough in her opinion to give him meds. She said the epilepsy seizure meds that work, actually could do him more harm in the long run because of his age, they weaken the immune system and she was worried about him getting respiratory infections if we start him on the meds, but if he starts having them more often we can talk again... so for now we are doing nothing and since the visit, I haven't seen him have one, so I'm happy at least for that.My vet is looking into CBD treatments since they've had so much luck with that for other animals with seizures and epilepsy, but I told her I tried to find dosage back when one of my other rats was diving from a tumor and couldn't find anything and no one would recommend a dosage that I would trust. So hopefully she'll be able to tell me something there and give me proper dosage for a rat, both THC strengths and overall mL dosages, because everything I've read and what others are doing makes me nervous, definitely don't want to tweak my boy out.Anyway, that's what I have for now.Jason


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## shibezone (Feb 5, 2018)

I'm glad to hear he's doing okay! 

One of my favorite vet assistants at my vet's office has a few rescue squirrels and one of the babies she has had a brain injury from being pushed out of his nest by a rival group of grey squirrels. He was having major seizures from his fall but she's been giving him CBD oil and the seizures have completely stopped. If you wanted I could try to get in touch with her and see if she can turn up anything for you and your vet!


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## morsel (Feb 10, 2017)

shibezone said:


> I'm glad to hear he's doing okay! One of my favorite vet assistants at my vet's office has a few rescue squirrels and one of the babies she has had a brain injury from being pushed out of his nest by a rival group of grey squirrels. He was having major seizures from his fall but she's been giving him CBD oil and the seizures have completely stopped. If you wanted I could try to get in touch with her and see if she can turn up anything for you and your vet!


 YES! That would be awesome. The biggest thing as I mentioned were having a hard time with is dosage based on THC content, all CBD has some small amounts and there are some many different variables in a lot of CBD.On a side note, He's still doing great, he's been in great spirits and has really seemed to slow down much. At this point in his life based on my other boys, I would have been expecting him to degrade quickly once they reach this point like what happen with my other old men... but he's just still charging around even with zero use of his back legs... he's lost a touch of weight but not much or anything to be concerned about. So overall very happy with how he's doing... Here's a recent picture of him...


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## Steffy (Oct 6, 2017)

Your old man is just adorable, Jason! I hope you will find some treatment for the seizures and he will continue to enjoy his life! A bit off topic but I really wonder what the secret to your rats' longevity is? Maybe it is because they were lab rats (correct me if I'm wrong) and they don't have the Mycoplasma bacterium?


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## Fu-Inle (Jan 22, 2015)

Steffy said:


> Your old man is just adorable, Jason! I hope you will find some treatment for the seizures and he will continue to enjoy his life! A bit off topic but I really wonder what the secret to your rats' longevity is? Maybe it is because they were lab rats (correct me if I'm wrong) and they don't have the Mycoplasma bacterium?


Some lab rats don't when the study they are being used in requires them to be free of any micro-organisms. But even the ones that are free of Mycoplasma only remain that way because they are kept in a completely sterile enviroment. Myco is contagious and if you were to take a Myco free lab rat out of the lab they would catch the bacteria and no longer be free. They don't have an immunity or anything to my knowledge.


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## Steffy (Oct 6, 2017)

True, they would catch it from other rats - that's why I'm not allowed in the animal house at work to cuddle the rats the students practice handling on (I work at uni where researchers work with mice) ... But maybe if Jason only had lab rats and never any contact with other rats they never contracted Myco. Just speculation anyway.


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## morsel (Feb 10, 2017)

Steffy said:


> True, they would catch it from other rats - that's why I'm not allowed in the animal house at work to cuddle the rats the students practice handling on (I work at uni where researchers work with mice) ... But maybe if Jason only had lab rats and never any contact with other rats they never contracted Myco. Just speculation anyway.


Yes, I've only had lab rescues, but the place they live before they come my way is literally a farm sanctuary and has tons of other animals and mice and all sorts of micro organisms I would think, so they do get exposed. I don't know, I've had three different rats live long, one to almost four and one other and this guy past four, Gus is about 4 1/2 now which is crazy. I had two die somewhat at a normal age, one had a stroke and the other got a cancerous tumor.Don't know, I give them lots of love, only feed them Harlan Teklad Adult lab blocks, oxbow, and lots of organic veggies and I do give them purified water is all, but feel like a lot of people here do that same diet. Also, to be honest, my rats have always been overweight  I think I've just been lucky to be honest...Jason


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## shibezone (Feb 5, 2018)

morsel said:


> YES! That would be awesome. The biggest thing as I mentioned were having a hard time with is dosage based on THC content, all CBD has some small amounts and there are some many different variables in a lot of CBD.On a side note, He's still doing great, he's been in great spirits and has really seemed to slow down much. At this point in his life based on my other boys, I would have been expecting him to degrade quickly once they reach this point like what happen with my other old men... but he's just still charging around even with zero use of his back legs... he's lost a touch of weight but not much or anything to be concerned about. So overall very happy with how he's doing... Here's a recent picture of him...


 Oh what a sweet face!!! I love his cheeks! 

I'll get in touch with that vet tech today and see what I can find out, sorry for a bit of a wait it's been crazy busy on my end this week!


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## shibezone (Feb 5, 2018)

Alright I got in touch with her! 

What she said is to get any 150mg formula of the CBD/hemp oil and give him just a couple (1 to 2 and no more) small drops of it once daily. It looks like there are some varieties without THC in it you can get out there, just check the info on the label, a lot of them are very specific and give breakdowns on their content. She wasn't sure what the brand is she uses, unfortunately. 

If he doesn't like taking medicine through a dropper or syringe you can put it on some food for him like a piece of bread or something he really likes to eat. For her squirrels she dabs it on a bit of corn on the cob. 

If you or your vet want I can PM you my vet's info so they can get in touch!


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## morsel (Feb 10, 2017)

shibezone said:


> Alright I got in touch with her! What she said is to get any 150mg formula of the CBD/hemp oil and give him just a couple (1 to 2 and no more) small drops of it once daily. It looks like there are some varieties without THC in it you can get out there, just check the info on the label, a lot of them are very specific and give breakdowns on their content. She wasn't sure what the brand is she uses, unfortunately. If he doesn't like taking medicine through a dropper or syringe you can put it on some food for him like a piece of bread or something he really likes to eat. For her squirrels she dabs it on a bit of corn on the cob. If you or your vet want I can PM you my vet's info so they can get in touch!


This is great, I will reach out to my vet and see what she says based on this info. I have looked into this before and do know about all the different THC contents and even have a place I can get it from, so really helpful info here... Gonna give it a try for sure...Thanks so much for your help and looking into this for me, greatly appreciated.Jason


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## shibezone (Feb 5, 2018)

You're super welcome, I'm glad to help and the tech was also really eager and excited to be able to help your old man! Let us know what you figure out and I hope it works well for him!!


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## TheNameIsWater (May 8, 2018)

Steffy said:


> Your old man is just adorable, Jason! I hope you will find some treatment for the seizures and he will continue to enjoy his life! A bit off topic but I really wonder what the secret to your rats' longevity is? Maybe it is because they were lab rats (correct me if I'm wrong) and they don't have the Mycoplasma bacterium?


 Was reading the thread out of curiosity and saw this and thought I could share my knowledge. Sprague-Dawley rats (a common lab rat breed, and what Mr. Gus looks to be) have a typical life span of 2.5 - 3.5 years! Gus is definitely an old boy, but I think the longevity simply comes from the breed. I recently adopted two lab rats myself, named Thorndike and Skinner after two behavior theorists. They're both Sprague-Dawleys, so I've been digging around for information about them and their lifespan since then. If this is how long Gus has lived, I think I may be moving on to graduate school with these boys! It's really rewarding to adopt retired lab rats. I'm happy to see another rat forum user who has them.


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## morsel (Feb 10, 2017)

TheNameIsWater said:


> Was reading the thread out of curiosity and saw this and thought I could share my knowledge. Sprague-Dawley rats (a common lab rat breed, and what Mr. Gus looks to be) have a typical life span of 2.5 - 3.5 years! Gus is definitely an old boy, but I think the longevity simply comes from the breed. I recently adopted two lab rats myself, named Thorndike and Skinner after two behavior theorists. They're both Sprague-Dawleys, so I've been digging around for information about them and their lifespan since then. If this is how long Gus has lived, I think I may be moving on to graduate school with these boys! It's really rewarding to adopt retired lab rats. I'm happy to see another rat forum user who has them.


 Yes, it's all we adopt... there's a sanctuary that really does good a thing by rescuing these ratties so they don't just get put down. We've adopted several pairs over the years and will continue to do so. They are work to get them to trust you, but eventually they come around after a few bites and trying to run for their lives when they get play time On a side note, I'm getting the CBD this week and going to start to give it to him, he had another seizure the night before last and it was awful. It lasted so long and he was not happy about it, it seem to last well over a minute and it was heart wrenching to see him freakout and just not be able to control it, it was a bad one  So hoping this will help reduce or eliminate them.Thanks,Jason


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## morsel (Feb 10, 2017)

shibezone said:


> You're super welcome, I'm glad to help and the tech was also really eager and excited to be able to help your old man! Let us know what you figure out and I hope it works well for him!!


I order some and it should be arriving tomorrow, so I will definitely let everyone know how it goes and if it worked for old man Gus, as mentioned in my previous comment, he had another really bad one, it was not fun to witness Jason


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## shibezone (Feb 5, 2018)

Poor Gus, I hope this helps!!


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## morsel (Feb 10, 2017)

shibezone said:


> Poor Gus, I hope this helps!!


Me too


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