# Safe and Unsafe foods question



## graphite (Apr 6, 2011)

Sorry if this is posted somewhere else, but I couldn't find it on the sticky (I may be blind/dumb). I was wondering about the safety of these foods:

Spinach
beets and beet greens
turnips
parsnips
radishes
tomatilloes
tomatoes
okra
eggplant
all kinds of herbs
garlic
hazelnuts
Almonds
Walnuts
Acorns
Cashews
Filberts
Other nuts, roasted or raw
white and brown rice, dry, puffed, cooked, etc.


I'm trying to make a ginormous list for a paranoid friend haha. Thanks.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Yes to Spinach, Beets (not sure about beet greens but I think they are safe as well), Turnips, Parsnips, Radishes, Tomatoes, Hazelnuts, Almonds, Walnuts, Acorns (as long as they have not had any pesticides on them or the tree), and Cashews.

All nuts are ok, even Pine nuts. Brazil nuts though shouldn't be fed too often as it is basically a super food and high in a lot of vitamins and minerals that you don't want them to overdose on. Same goes for spinach (Spinach should be fed about once to twice a week max).

Rice is ok in all forms but Raw, raw will swell up in the bellies and cause bloat.

With herbs as long as it is not from the Thyme family it is ok. Most herbs are actually good for medical conditions, like Cinnamon for disease (it cleans the blood) and Ginger for Hind leg issues.

Okra and Tomatilloes I am not sure. Tomatilloes are from the same family as Eggplants, (Eggplants are safe) so I would assume they are as well. I've read that Okra has not been noted to be bad for rats, but since not a lot of people even eat it in the first place, or have it available. I've read that its ok.

Garlic is also ok in small amounts, its often used on cooked foods or in dry mixes to add in extra vitamins and minerals. When I feed Spinach we tend to cook it with olive oil and garlic powder.

The only food that should be noted, especially since its for a friend, are meat fats which rats can not digest due to not having a gal bladder or canine teeth so meat should be avoided, but stuff like Fish which is not a meat since it has a different fat make up is ok, and good for younger rats and rats that have skin issues. White chicken meat is also ok in moderation but its just a treat and has no real nutrients that rats need.

Mushrooms are also ok, there are a few websites that say they are poisionist but my rats Love mushrooms and it should of killed them long ago if that was true (for obvious reasons wild mushrooms should not be fed, but store bought ones are good and rats like it).


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

As to mushrooms, my rat found and ate a small mushroom in the grass and almost died. I talked to a local vet that told me the same happens to local dogs very often. It's not a matter of mushrooms being poison for rats, it's just that domestic rats can't tell one mushroom from another. Wild rats have a trick where they taste only a tiny little bit to see if it's good before eating more. Having had both types of rat, at the same place at the same time amongst the same mushrooms and winding up with only one sick rat, I can say for sure, some domestic rats have lost the ability to test taste for poison and need to be protected from their own appitites. 

More than likely if you buy the mushrooms at the store and they are safe for you, they are ok for your rat. If you find a pretty mushroom outside, and you wouldn't eat it, don't let your domestic rattie eat it. 

If you read somewhere that rats can determine what foods are poison and which foods aren't, it's true but only applies to true and some part wild type rats.


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## graphite (Apr 6, 2011)

thanks so much guys!


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## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

One thing to let your friend know about is food allergies. Speaking as someone who had a food allergy sneak up on them with my latest baby, if she wants to test new food with her crew - the best way to avoid food allergies, or to prepare for them, is to only introduce one new food at a time.

Say she gives them their standard lab block food or Oxbow or what have you, and then adds a type of nut and sees how they do with it. I would give them a bit of the new food for a few days (a piece here or there) and monitor them before giving another new food. Sometimes food allergies don't appear until a food has built up in their system, in a delayed reaction.


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## graphite (Apr 6, 2011)

how common are food allergies in rats? And are they usually allergies to the foods humans have allergies to? Like nuts, etc.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

From what I've noticed food allergies are actually very rare in most rats. What is more common and an "allergy" is when they have too much (or too little) protein, and/or too little fat. Which will appear in the same ways allergies do like hair loss, dry skin, and extreme itching.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Most have already been covered, just add a few bits and pieces here

In terms of raw (dried rice) – this doesn’t cause bloat if fed dried, it’s a popular myth (along with the one where if you feed it to seagulls they expload). I use it regularly as part of my dry mix and it is commonly used here in the uk. If you fed it as the sole element to a diet I expect it would be bad for them but it’s fine as part of a normal healthy diet, in fact it’s one of the better grains for rats as it’s nice and low in phospherous.

Meat wise – they shouldn’t have loads but they can digest it well and it can be a good source of certain vitamins and minerals which are hard to find otherwise. Rats are omnivours and natural scavengers, there diet shouldn’t be high in meat (red or white) however it’s fine for them to have in small amounts just as it would be in the wild, say a bone with a bit of meat left on and so on can be a really useful treat. It’s not abnormal to feed it occasionally here in the UK (especially Liver as that is so high in copper), some people even feed it raw occasionally and there rats are often amongst the nicest condition rats I know.

Mushrooms – if there fine for humans there fine for rats, obviously if you wouldn’t pick a random mushroom from a field and eat it then the same is true for your rats.

Nuts – avoid raw peanuts as these are toxic, however cooked (as sold for humans) are fine if a little too high in fats and protiens, they also seem to be one of those foods you can find allergys to in rats as in humans. Don’t feed any nut or seed that is posienous to humans, so avoid things like horse chestnut conkers, acorns are ok in a small amount but don’t feed loads as they can cause stomach upsets.

Herbs – Generally speaking all culanary herbs are fine for rats, just be cautious about having a high content in a diet alongside medication as some have medicinal properties themselves and that can be an issue. Thyme has always been fine, am not sure why it’s believed to not be ok?

Spices – also very useful in many cases, however avoid licourice root, this contains neurotoxins and isn’t good.

Garlic and onion – both great for health raw, dried etc, however don’t feed lots raw, as it can upset there stomach

Beet greens – these are fine, as are pretty much any other greens of edible plants, just watch things like lettuce which has no nutritional benefits, just gives them the runs. Worth noting often wild growing plants and leaves are brilliant for rats, am not sure if you have any of these in the states but here’s a few highly edible weeds common here in the UK that are good for rats; dandilion, plantain, current leaves, raspberry leaves (avoid in pregnant does), bramble leaves (remove any thorns).

Also flowers are often edible too, things like marigold, roses, dandilions etc, they can often make a nice treat.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Everything Isamurat said is spot-on. I'm not sure where a lot of this conflicting information comes from.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Often it comes from other species, such as dogs and rabbits, then people tend to play it carefully and assume its the same for rats even though they are very different to carnivors and herbivors, if anything they are closer to humans digestivly.

Plus then there's the rumour mill that often exagerates things or makes facts out of theorys. I don't know if you have the childs game of chinese whispers over there but that pretty much sums up how 'facts' are made (for those who haven't heard of it it involves a chain of people, the first whispers something to the next, they then whisper what they heard to the next person and so on, until what comes out the other end is generally completely different and very funny).

Other myths that do annoy me a little;

chocolate is toxic to rats - nope, in fact in small amounts it is actually beneficial as it can act as a bronchial dilator. though its too high in fat and sugar to be eaten much

Garlic/onion is toxic - see above

Rats are all lactose intollerant - roughly the same proportion of rats are lactose intollerant as humsn, generally it's not a big deal for them

Rats are allergic to sunflower seeds and peanuts and should never be fed them - there not generally however they can have issues especially as they get older.

Those are my pet hates anyway lol.

Oh some more unsafes i've thought of

Raw or dried beans, especially kidney beans, these are full of antinutrients and you can have very sick rats with very little of these. Note peas are not the same. Also by cooking or soaking then roasting you can still add them to dried mixes, chick peas and soya beans are good examples of these.

Citrus peel - no good for male rats, good for female rats (reduces risk of cancer)the flesh is fine but generally avoided due to the risk of diliomene (which i can't spell) being transferred across from the skin, it's also present to a lesser amount in other fruit and veg, however at low levels it seems to be controlled by the body well.


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## trematode (Sep 8, 2012)

Some of this should be added to the sticky on top! When I was researching food, I found more of these myths than facts.So... to clarify: I read on here that soy cheese is better. But there are people who feed dairy cheese occasionally and nobody blew up at them. Is dairy cheese okay and how much/how often?


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Cheese is the same as milk, a rat could have issues with it, but most will probably be fine. I will say though in terms of cheese it is very unhealthy (high in salt and fat) and if you’ve got a rat that bolts there food down it’s the kind of texture which can get choked on occasionally. I’ll be honest I don’t see masses of benefits in feeding it, there’s a lot healthier options that rats adore (like egg)


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## trematode (Sep 8, 2012)

Thanks  I just wanted to be sure. I know that since it is not good for us that it wouldn't be good for the rats all of the time.


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## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

Isamurat said:


> Plus then there's the rumour mill that often exagerates things or makes facts out of theorys. I don't know if you have the childs game of chinese whispers over there but that pretty much sums up how 'facts' are made (for those who haven't heard of it it involves a chain of people, the first whispers something to the next, they then whisper what they heard to the next person and so on, until what comes out the other end is generally completely different and very funny).


It's called Telephone here, but yes we have it. 

Also I agree completely, misinformation is scrambled as it passes from person to person and the originating source is often completely irrelevant.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Another similar effect is "Internet Echo".

One person hears/reads something and repeats it. From there on, the next people assume that the original person had the correct information and they repeat it. This continues until something is repeated so often that it is considered to be gospel despite the fact that the original source may be incorrect.

Just another reason why I love forums so that we can get all of this information straight. There is so much out there and it's too easy to get lost in it all.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Isamurat said:


> Nuts – avoid raw peanuts as these are toxic.


I can't actually confirm whether this is a myth or not, my rats have occaisionally eaten parrot food containing raw peanuts without any obvious adverse reactions. 

That's not a recommendation, it's just that this thread is challenging myths and I'd hate to see one potential one go by unchallenged.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

The ones in parrot food (and pet foods in general) are actually cooked to some degree. Peanuts are actually a legume closer to beans than seeds and nuts. As such in their raw form they contain a lot of antinutrients. These are sorted out by cooking and mean there fine. You do still have to be cautious with avoiding fast dried or mouldy peanuts (like corn these can be nasty) but pet and animal feed peanuts (including parrots) are fine.

I think we often don't realise the processes animal feed goes thorough before they get to eat it. Take flaked peas, corn and soya, they look like they've just been squished but actually they are cooked too. It's very similar principle, heating helps make the nutrients more readily available and destroys many of the antinutrients in food. Of course too processed and you get animals that get fat from virtually looking at the food lol


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Isamurat said:


> Of course too processed and you get animals that get fat from virtually looking at the food lol


Like some of us humans!


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Lol I know that one, why can't I be as good with my own diet ad my rats...


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