# dumbo rats



## rattyandseekersmum (Sep 29, 2012)

i LOVE the look of dumbo rats, but just found out they are not allowed in my country 
so unfair as i will never get to have one now


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## Blaze (Jul 16, 2012)

Oh dear. :c Is it just dumbo rats that aren't allowed? Why would they ban dumbo-eared rats and not standard-eared ones?


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Are you sure they are banned in your country or are just rare? it would be odd for a specific variety of rat (its a simple recessive mutation) to be banned, typically stuff like All rats are banned or only feeders (PEWS/Albinos and Sometimes black hoodeds) are allowed. It might just be that only feeders are allowed and so any pretty markings that develop are either culled, or if they are imported into the country simply aren't imported.


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## rattyandseekersmum (Sep 29, 2012)

banned. not allowed to bring them in, as they are genetically different from our normal rats, what i think you call fancy rats, so no chance they are ever coming in. it sucks. stupid bio security 

we dont have feeder rats here either


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

What do you mean normal rats? you mean wild rats?


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## rattyandseekersmum (Sep 29, 2012)

normal rats, as in pet rats with ears on top of their head


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## Korra (Dec 11, 2011)

They are the exact same species tho...I don't understand what the ears have to do with anything. It is just a Mendilian trait in fancy rats, just like us having widow's peaks or cleft chins.


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## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

May I ask what country this is?


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## rattyandseekersmum (Sep 29, 2012)

Unfortunately, due to import restrictions, varieties found overseas such as blue 
rats, chocolate, and dumbo will never exist in NZ as these genetic variations 
simply do not exist.


^^quote from biosecurity when i looked it up, if that helps the reason behind it?


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## Blaze (Jul 16, 2012)

There's only one species of pet rat. "Dumbo" and "standard" just describes the ear types. Dumbos are not at all a different species than standard-eared rats. They have a few physical differences, that's all.

If I had to guess, rats with certain traits are banned in your country because they're so rare, and they don't want people importing them and possibly bringing in new diseases, so they just ban those kinds of rats as a safety measure.


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## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

I have a friend in New Zealand and she said they don't allow animals to be imported because their island does not have rabies and if rabies came to their island (or really any other diseases) it would wipe out most of their native species.


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## IOVERATS (Aug 25, 2012)

This is a bit off topic but... A New girl recently joined my school and she is from New Zealand and hamsters are banned as well because they are classed as pests

But dumbo rats just have ears set at the side of their head, and to create that you just have to mutate the cells. I've never heard of rats with rabies.... But anyway she also said that rats are classed as pests too. I think that rodents to NZ people that decide laws etc are a bit too paranoid? 


No offence was intended from this post  and I'm sorry that you can't have dumbo ratties  it's a shame they are quite cute with their big old ears bouncing around haha 


A wise t-shirt once said 'my rats think your gross too!' directed at all you rat haters out there!


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## rattyandseekersmum (Sep 29, 2012)

lol at times they are paranoid. but i guess it is also to save our environment. wild rats are killing off lots of our birds. and yes, you cant get a hamster here either  
best thing about nz though, is because we have no snakes or lizards etc, we dont have people selling feeder rats


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## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

Well... I believe I've officially been talked out of moving to New Zealand. lol I was sad enough about no wolves or foxes... but no lizards? I really enjoyed my leopard gecko and I look forward to getting another and also a bearded dragon one day. 

No gerbils in New Zealand either. I definitely couldn't live without my gerbils. I guess I'll either stay in America or move to the UK.


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## rattyandseekersmum (Sep 29, 2012)

lol we have some geckos etc, but nothing big. and i dont think you are allowed to bring random reptiles in  and no gerbils. 
so definitely not the place for you abyss, but atleast we have no feeder rats


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## Blaze (Jul 16, 2012)

Awaiting_Abyss said:


> I have a friend in New Zealand and she said they don't allow animals to be imported because their island does not have rabies and if rabies came to their island (or really any other diseases) it would wipe out most of their native species.


Ah, I didn't think of that, nor did I know that New Zealand doesn't have rabies. Makes sense to ban imports, then.


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## Rat-1- (Jul 22, 2012)

In aus it's kind of the same but isn't that abit extreme like here we only ban gerbils,chinchillas,degus,hamsters etc i know if you get a permit to have a pet you can


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

I wonder if you would be allowed to import rats from countries that also don't have rabies like the UK? We have a fairly thriving dumbo population alongside our top ears. We've also imported varieties from over your way too (australia i think) - the down under rats.

Here's nice visual representation the dumbos are not really different to top eareds...










This is two little sisters born here in my last litter; India is a black dumbo and Tigerella is an agouti top eared, there dad was an agouti dumbo, there mum a top eared and they have 1 sister, an agouti dumbo. A lovely mixed eared family


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Oh, I see, its similar to Gambian pouched rats not being able to be imported to the US due to monkey pox.

If there are already rats in your country all that would have to be done is breeding, using line and inbreeding, to see if the genes can be found. Dumbo is just a simple recessive that a lot of rats carry, I mean, the only way it could be gone there is if Linebreeding and inbreeding was never done which are what is done with rats because it helps to make sure that only healthy rats are bred (it only brings out bad genes, it doesn't cause them) or if when ever a Dumbo was born they were culled, either by being put to sleep or not being bred. I'm sure breeders though might be trying to find the gene.

Actually I found a few breeders in NZ. They don't have Dumbos but they have other varieties that people in the US, and UK, normally don't breed like Champaigns and Albinos. I even found Agouti hoodeds  (One of my favorite varieties next to Albino and Topaz/Fawn). I don't like the no snakes but I love albinos (which No one here likes apparently, cause almost all the breeders here only breed Blues, Russian Blues, Sometimes minks, and Siameses. Which sucks for me cause all of my favorite varieties of rats are considered boring like black hoodeds, albinos, ect). This is a huge conflict.

Isamurat they are so cute, I love the agouti guy.


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## IOVERATS (Aug 25, 2012)

rattyandseekersmum said:


> lol at times they are paranoid. but i guess it is also to save our environment. wild rats are killing off lots of our birds. and yes, you cant get a hamster here either
> best thing about nz though, is because we have no snakes or lizards etc, we dont have people selling feeder rats


Better to be safe than sorry though haha.

Its good that you can't sell feeder rats out in New Zealand because its not nice for poor little ratties to be either sold or thrown into the snakes 

But I guess you wouldn't ever have that problem anyway because you aren't allowed snakes or lizards  I don't hate snakes but I don't care much for them, I wouldn't ever hurt a domesticated one (or a wild one unless it was trying to kill me) but I love lizards and I really want some but my parents draw the line at rats hahaha. 

And I would hate to live in New Zealand because I have my two precious babies back here in England and I wouldn't want to live without them... I would miss my hamster choir in the evening as soon as you go in the kitchen, my sleeve buddies  

Anyway, thanks for giving my that information it is always interesting hearing about different stuff about different countries other than awesome England! (Lol, we aren't that awesome but hey, I think we are!) Lol  Good luck with any pets you may have and good luck for you as well 

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that in England we don't have any feeder rats because it's illegal to feed live invertebrates to snakes etc, but they can still feed dead ones which I don't mind so much because a snakes gotta eat, I just hate animals that get thrown in live. I think its legal in America but I'm not sure.


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## IOVERATS (Aug 25, 2012)

Isamurat said:


> I wonder if you would be allowed to import rats from countries that also don't have rabies like the UK? We have a fairly thriving dumbo population alongside our top ears. We've also imported varieties from over your way too (australia i think) - the down under rats.
> 
> Here's nice visual representation the dumbos are not really different to top eareds...
> 
> ...


Awww they make me wanna melt! I wanna steal them their ears are so sweet  Thanks for uploading and I would love to see some of your other ratties and maybe some more of India and Tigerella


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

LightningWolf said:


> Oh, I see, its similar to Gambian pouched rats not being able to be imported to the US due to monkey pox.
> 
> If there are already rats in your country all that would have to be done is breeding, using line and inbreeding, to see if the genes can be found. Dumbo is just a simple recessive that a lot of rats carry, I mean, the only way it could be gone there is if Linebreeding and inbreeding was never done which are what is done with rats because it helps to make sure that only healthy rats are bred (it only brings out bad genes, it doesn't cause them) or if when ever a Dumbo was born they were culled, either by being put to sleep or not being bred. I'm sure breeders though might be trying to find the gene.
> 
> Isamurat they are so cute, I love the agouti guy.


I think the issue in nz (and a lot of other countries out there) is that the dumbo mutation (aka the rat version of lop) hasn't naturally occured yet. It's relatively recent in terms of the rat fancy as a whole. I can't remember if it started here and was exported to the states or went the other way (like Harley might be) or like when downunders were brought to the UK from Europe (having come from aussy earlier), or most recently the red eyed devils from Europe, now called martins in the uk. It takes quite a fluke set of circumstances for a new variety to emerge and they often don't occur everywhere silmultaniously. Hopefully it'll crop up naturally on its own one day..

Interesting fact, when it originally emerged in the UK dumbo was banned from showing as at the time they thought they had different skull shape affecting there brain. That was prooved otherwise and now there pretty common.

I'll post some more pics later, but more excitingly there will hopefully be a baby thread soon. The little agouti lady tigerella is currently a fair bit older and quite pregnant... I may be a little hyper lol.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

I never knew that about showing, I knew that since it was a new variety for a while it wouldn't be showable, but didn't know it was for that reason. Kind of like how Hairless and Manx aren't allowed to be showed in the UK. Not sure where Dumbo started, I want to say in the UK, but I think it was one of those like with Merle, blue, and I want to also say Cinnamon where it appeared in both countries around the same time. One thing that still shocks me (at lease here) is that Chinchilla is a recognized variety even though only around 20 are known to exist here (its the Martin gene on Agouti) but yet Russian Cinnamon is one the Unrecognized list and the AFRMA doesn't even recognized Russian Fawn at All (you can look on their standards list, it is not mentioned). It is the same way over there with Russian Topaz?

I wouldn't say it hasn't naturally occurred yet. I mean for the longest time only Agouti, Black, and Albino were the only recognized varieties and the others didn't exist in till they popped up. It's probably just hiding somewhere, who knows they might find a variety we haven't found yet. I guess I'm just being optimistic though.


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## binkyhoo (Sep 28, 2008)

I dont know every thing but I can see NZ being very cautious about importing any animal. Maybe why even a simple dumbo rat can cause havoc? A simple scientific enviromental observance. 

I do find it interesting that different colors/ textures are popular in different areas. Even In USA. I had Blue rats of all types, Russian, American, Agouti, Silver. I read some of my rat friends would love a blue. I am like I will take what ever comes my way . I got a beige. Hard to find here. Popular in other areas.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Martin has actually prooved to be quite different to chinchilla so far from how things have been going here in the UK. A couple of my friends are heavily involved, in fact one was the original importer. It appears to sit on the C locus and you can get pointed varieties. When on an agouti it gives a unique colour we call silver agouti, it essentially takes out all the yellow and red pigment and leaves the black, whereas chinchilla fades them a lot more but doesn't appear to remove them. Here's some handy links with pics of the UK interpritation;

marten
Red Eyed Silver Agouti
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?hl=e...w=177&start=0&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0,i:80
Black eyed silver agouti
Chinchilla

I may have been a little derailed from the dumbo subject lol. The UK NFRS (our national club) does ban the showing and even entry into the show hall of hairless or tail less. Local clubs are a bit more relaxed and they are allowed in the halls and sometimes can be entered into pets, but not varieities. It's due to the fact the gene's causing hairless and tail less available to us in the UK are all associated with inherint health problems, be that failure to lactate, difficulties giving birth or failure to thrive. Essentially despite a few attempts no serious ethical breeder has managed to breed them to live as long and as healthy as other species so they are not shown as a way to discourage them from being bred (actually the same with black eyed white, that has just been removed from showing).


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

IOVERATS said:


> Awww they make me wanna melt! I wanna steal them their ears are so sweet  Thanks for uploading and I would love to see some of your other ratties and maybe some more of India and Tigerella


put a thread up for the girls now if your interested here


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## binkyhoo (Sep 28, 2008)

Off subject some more. I find it interesting that the different fancy rat clubs/ associations from around the world have their own color standards. As far as I am concerened, you are all right! But I think I know better  To who ever told me otherwise, my first Pixie was a silver agouti!


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