# Hi!!!



## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

Hi,

I just joined the forum (can't find an introduction thread). I wanted to share with rat people what has been going on with me over the last few days.

I've spent the last few days helping lady, Lyn, in Northamptonshire who runs a small rescue. She's in a very difficult situation. Firstly, she was contacted last week by someone in Stockport wanting to surrender 9 (I think) rats to her. 9 seems like quite a few at one time, but she agreed, since she had the space at the time. She's arranged for a courier to bring them down this Wednesday coming.

[Lyn, if you're on here, feel free to jump in and correct me anywhere I get it wrong].

Subsequently she was contacted by a feeder breeder near her who has decided to stop breeding. I know many of us have been through the feeder breeder thing, and it really is an argument with yourself whether you help or whether you don't. From what I understand this guys wife has had a baby, and the expense and responsibility has come as somewhat of a shock to him; he's selling everything, including the racks etc. Hopefully that means he won't ever start again. He told Lyn that he had 75 rats needing somewhere, so she told him to bring them over. He turned up with about 100 rats all in one of those tiny racks, crammed up together. She couldn't take them all; it was just undoable. So she took the ones she knew wouldn't survive without help; babies who were away from their mothers already but only a few weeks of age. 39 of them.

I've run a couple of my spare cages down there for her to use for the moment, but it's not enough really. I picked up some Ecobed on the way and donated her some hammocks, water bottles, food bowls etc, but it's still going to cost her an absolute fortune. We talked about it, and we decided that we would try and take the rest from him .. we knew he had the rest that he'd taken to her and she'd turned away, plus he'd told her that he had 15 pregnant does at home still. But sadly he's already dealt with the rest of them. We can only speculate over what that actually means.

It's such a nightmare. What are rescues supposed to do in situations like this? If we do take rats from these people we're sentencing ourselves to weeks / months of stress, and inevitable financial torture, plus they so often go back to breeding anyway. But if we don't take the rats from them we know they're all going to die  I feel so bad for her that she had to turn the others away .. and obviously so does she. She said she felt like the Grim Reaper.

Anyway. I don't have pictures of them yet; I forgot to take pics while I was there yesterday. But they are GORGEOUS. A lot of the boys are dumbos, most of the girls are top eared oddly. There are roans in there, variegateds, siamese, and a lot of blazes. Sorry I can't remember them better lol. They vary in age from about two or three weeks to six weeks I'd guess. The smallest little boy has a strange lump on his face; it looks like his jaw is dislocated but he's eating for england so I don't think it is, but there again it's not squishy, but could still be an abscess. Poor tiny fella. There's a girl with an eye problem too; her eyeball may be smaller than usual or something. When they arrived with Lyn they were all screachy and terrified of people; the guy had been picking them up by their tails. They were better at being handled yesterday, and she told me that they're even better today. I think they'll make fab pets when they do find homes.

Sooo .. provided I remember, I'll update you on how they're doing as they go 

Nim


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

Oops .. apparantly it's 39 coming from Stockport, not 9 .... OMG!!!!! :-o


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

Update from Lyn this morning:

_Just had a text to say stockport ones were collected at 630am so are on their way here. Cages all have bedding in and bottles filled. Have ordered some clips for the hammocks so they should be here tomorrow.

Have decided to call them Group 1 and Group 2. Group 1 are the feeders and group 2 the stockport ones, lol.

Group 1 are all doing well. Alastair was doing what he is always doing this morning, lol. He never stops eating, lol. His eye is looking better. Pippa's eye was closed this morning but I think it was sticky because of the tyacil. It is also looking better. Girls no longer are hiding away and are in hammock and sputnik as well as the igloo. I took out the plastic bowl and put in a ceramic bowl so they can't hide. They told me off this morning because their food bowl was empty... so empty they had to lick it clean. They even eat the alfa pellets! Boys on the other hand are watching their waistlines._


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

Todays update:

_Update time:-

Group 1 (feeders) are doing so well and growing nicely. The girls now starfish at me and quite a few of them seem really pleased to see me when I come in now. Judging by the amount of food they have eaten since Sunday I think their little tummies are very full now. Their food bowl this morning still had food in it, which is a first. Normally it is licked clean. The boys are also doing very well and a few of them are definite squishes in the making. Now they are settling I will attempt to do a photo shoot when I have some help passing two and fro.

Group 2 (Stockport). These are lovely kits. Girls have been a bit skittish and one in particular is a screamer but hasn't bitten me. She will be better once I keep hassling her to be friendly. There are four mums about to give birth any day now so need to get more birthing cages. The three nursing mums have got lovely babies (see here http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/102147299750208371178/BabyRats240410?feat=email#) and I am already getting reservations for them. I'm not sure what sexes yet so will take another look later. There are four boys who aged 6-18 months who are skittish but I think they will be fine once they come out to play. I doubt they have ever had that luxury. He is a lovely breeder who owned them but his personal circumstances have meant they have not had his usual attention hence some are shy but nice natured. The baby boys from this lot are lovely and friendly.

If anyone can donate any birthing cages and would like to donate food or bedding it would be very much appreciated.

Any adoption enquires please through myself or Nim._


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

What we've all been waiting for ... piiiiiictures!!!

These are pics of the babies that arrived from Stockport yesterday. The full album is here:
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/102147299750208371178/BabyRats240410?feat=email#

And here are just a few of them:


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## mollyzog (Apr 19, 2010)

Awww! They are so adorable!


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

mollyzog said:


> Awww! They are so adorable!


Thank you Molly. They really are aren't they


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

Todays update:

_Hello everyone,

I have uploaded pics of everyone. http://picasaweb.google.com/102147299750208371178/RattiesGroup1AndGroup2# and http://picasaweb.google.com/102147299750208371178/BabyRats240410#

I'd like to welcome Mr Alastair Darling who is my little fighter. He was about 3 weeks old when he came and the size of a garden mouse. He is called Mr Darling because he has eyebrows like his name sake and as much attitude. Mr Darling was as thin as a rake and I didn't think he'd make it as way way too young to have been away from mummy. But he is a fighter and has not stopped eating. Even though his teeth/mouth are so small he can't really bite into the rat nuggets he is determined to eat and live. He sits in the middle of the food bowl and just keeps on eating. He loves his lactol and kitten food and again eats for england...it is rare to find Mr Darling without some form of food in his mouth. I'll take a photo of him for you all later.

Group 1 are doing very well. My lovely vet did a house visit yesterday to check them all and was pleased with them all. All the 3-4 week old ones in group 1 are thriving. Girls are no longer licking the bowl clean (they in the first 2 days ate as much as my adult group of 12 did in a week!) although I was 30 mins going to do morning rounds and the bowl was clean..... I was suitably told off by 24 chattering girls. The boys sit and wait patiently for the food bowl to be emptied.

Group 2 are coming round. The guy they came from is a good guy who fell on very bad times and his rats ended up living in plastic storage boxes which has made a lot of them very shy. They are getting there though. The weaners are easy to work with and it will take a little bit more time to persuade the others life is ok.

The ladies in waiting (pregnant ones) are HUGE and I don't think far off givng birth. I separated them last night into pairs whilst I wait for the hamster cages to come into me - I have 2 new ones coming today. Checking them today I am suspicious that another 3 of them are pregnant from Group 2. I found a girl yesterday in with the boys and she is round and so are two other girls. Ho hum!

Nursing mummies are doing ok and babies are sooo cute. The topaz self bit me yesterday because I leant on the cage and it bled for an hour! Mental note not to do that again! Two of the litters have their eyes fully open now and are starting to explore the cage.... and both mums keep putting them back to bed.

Adult boys are very skittish, so they will need taming a bit but today is get them out of the cage day into a playpen and see how they are with some freedom and toys. I don't think they have ever had that. In fact I don't think ANY of the rats in either of the groups have ever had that.

So apologies for the appalling photos - they were how they arrived and I took photos in situ. I have helpers this weekend who will help me clean cages and take photos.

Lyn (and zillions of ratties)_


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

Some more pics. 

These pictures were sent to Lyn by the chap who surrendered Group2, before they went to her. It shows where they came from and what they were being kept in. As per my previous message the whole album for this lot is here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/102147299750208371178/RattiesGroup1AndGroup2#


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Mr. Darlin should have baby cereal and Complan and even soy baby formula to help him out with his early weaning situation. I had to do this with another orphan as well.


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

lilspaz68 said:


> Mr. Darlin should have baby cereal and Complan and even soy baby formula to help him out with his early weaning situation. I had to do this with another orphan as well.


Alistair Darling is on Lactol, which is what her vet suggested. I use Complan for my adult rats, but wouldn't use it for babies :| When I have to hand-wean babies, I tend to use human babyfood along with kitten milk. I guess everyoe has different ways of doing it.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

ratscallions said:


> lilspaz68 said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. Darlin should have baby cereal and Complan and even soy baby formula to help him out with his early weaning situation. I had to do this with another orphan as well.
> ...


At 3 weeks you don't have to nurse him as such, but give him some additional nutritional support. The softer foods (for small weak jaws) and extra calories will help. I personally use Ensure, but thought Complan was the substitute in the UK. Why wouldn't you give it to young rats anyways?


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

lilspaz68 said:


> At 3 weeks you don't have to nurse him as such, but give him some additional nutritional support. The softer foods (for small weak jaws) and extra calories will help. I personally use Ensure, but thought Complan was the substitute in the UK. Why wouldn't you give it to young rats anyways?


Firstly, please understand that he is not in my care, so I have no control over what he is fed at all.

I don't think Ensure and Complan are quite the same. Similar I beleive. Complan one of those 'whole meal in a drink' things designed for adult humans, but it is extremely sweet .. artificially so. I wouldn't use it for human children, so wouldn't use it for baby rats either. It's just so completely artificial that it feels wrong doing so.

Sadly, Alistair Darling is struggling quite badly. It seems that he has two problems; an abscess on the jaw, and a deformed jaw too. It may be that the deformed jaw has caused the abscess, or the abscess is pushing his jaw into the wrong shape while he's developing. It's quite distressing for Lyn (the person who's care he's under) as the only medication we have available for rats in the UK is baytril, which will have next to no affect on an abscess, and shouldn't be administered to young animals anyway  All we can hope for is that the abscess will burst and thus sort out the whole problem.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

I would only use a human soy formula on baby rats. Complan I wouldnt give to rats at all, as it is very sweet. Ensure I give to rats needing to bulk up, usually when they are over 3 weeks.

A vet should be able to treat an abscess on the jaw, and there ARE other meds available for rats in the UK. Baytril can be given to baby rats, and would help with the infection. Where in the UK are you located? If you cant get it treated you should consider euthanasia... I'd imagine it to be very painful especially if his jaw is now deformed. You could also give him over the counter childrens pain meds to help ease the pain.

I hope poor Alistair Darlings hangs in there. I cant imagine how much work Lyn has on her hands with that many rats. I recently had 31 babies, and it was very hectic and expensive. Twice daily feedings, waters changed about 8 times a day, cages cleaned twice daily... let alone finding the time to socialize them all!


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

You could mention Synulox/Noraclav to the vet. I don't know if it should be used in animals that young but a chance is still a chance. It's very effective with abscesses and I have had very good results with using it on facial abscesses.

There is medicine out there .. but it's not licensed for rats. My vet will research and find an alterative that can be used with rats. Vets with little experience (with rats) often don't or won't due to liability issues.

This is the info for it on ratguide;

http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/clavamox_amoxicillinclavulanate.php

I thought baytril shouldn't be used in rats under 4 months old? It's recommended against unless the infection warrants it.



> The use of fluoroquinolones has not been recommended for initial treatment in pregnant and nursing does, or rats under 4 months due to the risks of cartilage abnormalities (Egerbacher et al., 2000), however, in cases where other antibiotics are not helping, or if the infection is deemed severe, the benefit of using fluoroquinolones (alone or in combination with other compatible antimicrobials) may in fact outweigh the risks.


From ratguide


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

Ration1802 said:


> You could mention Synulox/Noraclav to the vet. I don't know if it should be used in animals that young but a chance is still a chance. It's very effective with abscesses and I have had very good results with using it on facial abscesses.
> 
> There is medicine out there .. but it's not licensed for rats. My vet will research and find an alterative that can be used with rats. Vets with little experience (with rats) often don't or won't due to liability issues.
> 
> ...


Many vets experienced in rat care won't go off license either because of the liability laws. Baytril has to be tried and failed, before they can use Synulox. But given that he is so young .. nb, 3 weeks ish .. Baytril really shouldn't even be tried. Catch 22.

I agree entirely, Synulox is fantastic for abscesses. If I had any I'd give it to her (vets can't stop people self-medicating), but I don't  Synulox is ok for littles too by the way; it's amoxicillin based. There's a brand of childrens cough medicine that has the same stuff in it, but I've forgotten what it's called; people often use this for their rats in the UK since we can't get it from the vets. (I'd forgotten that though, so shall text her now to tell her).


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

Lyns update today (Sunday):


_After a long day yesterday, and an escapee in our garage (well done Nim for the rugby tackle catching) all are photographed. It was great fun and I am amazed at how they are starting to like me and become attached to me (and me to them 

Photos of all are here - 
Females http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/102147299750208371178/Females02#

Males http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/102147299750208371178/Males02#

Babies http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/102147299750208371178/BabyRats240410#


All mums gave birth within hours of each other as well. Nim and I took bets that the husky one was first as she was ginormous, then the white one, then the ginger one and then the agouti. The agouti gave birth first, then the ginger one and then the white one (whilst I got showered and dressed) and then the husky. Agouti had 7, PEW 11, husky 15 and ginger I not 100% but it looks like 10 or so (she is not too keen at being disturbed). Husky mum is very very tired and I will not be surprised if she loses a couple as they are very very small and not fed yet.

If anyone would like more information on the babies that are available please contact me. Am happy to place reservations for those seriously interested.
[email protected]_

-----

_(My own update):_

I dragged my long-suffering husband down to Lyns yesterday with tales of barbecues and geek-speak. Little did he know that he was going to be lugging cages around all day hehehhee.

On a single run it takes about an hour and a half to get from my place to Lyns (unless I accidentally speed). Lyn had bought a couple of large cages from people in my area though, so we had to pick these up before making way, and then stop at an absolutely fantastic bedding supplier in Sutton Coldfield to pick up some Ecobed for her. We were amazed that everything fitted in our little car (Citroen C3).

Lyn now has enough cages; she has them stacked alongside her garage lol. They'll act as birthing cages should it arise that anymore females are pregnant later on. We took each cage in turn, emptying all rats into a play pen, cleaning the cage, then photographing and checking each rat as we replaced them back in their newly cleaned cage. They are absolutely amazing. When I saw the feeder rats on Monday they were all skittish, and terrified of noise let alone handling. The vast majority of them are now happy to be handled, and as you will see shortly, even behave for photographs.

Yesterday was the first time I met the second group of ratties though. Some are still a bit nervous, but given a week with Lyn I'm pretty confident that they'll all make fantastic pets too. This is the group the definitely pregnant does came in, so it was the first time I saw them too. I was amazed. I've obviously seen pregnant does before, but man ... I have never seen a rat as pregnant as the blue roan at Lyns. She quite literally looked like she'd swallowed a tennis ball. I was convinced she was going to drop her sprogs there and then. I was wrong ... all but her had dropped them by lunch time today apparantly lol. She's done her bit now though. I think between the four does, there are 39 babies have been born since yesterday.

When I saw the feeder rats on Monday, Lyn and I both thought that some of the older ones (nb about 8 or 9 weeks old) were pregnant. However, neither of us seem to think that any longer. It's possible that they had gorged themselves because they'd not had such good food before, or that they were pregnant and have now reabsorbed. (I've taken in rats that age that were pregnant before, so it's definitely not impossible lol).

Soooo .. I *think* everyone who will need a home has now arrived.

----

Sample of pictures for anyone who doesn't have time to view the albums / needs their appetites whetting 

That's me holding the rats .. please excuse the yellow stains on my t-shirt; I got widdles on rather a lot lol.

*Females:*




































*Males:*




































*And this is Alistair Darling:*








He is the size of a mouse; probably about three weeks old. He had already been removed from his mother last weekend when Lyn took him in. He has a large lump on the side of his face. When I first saw him I thought he had a dislocated jaw, but given that he's not stopped eating since he arrived that seems unlikely. We think it's an abscess, but also that he may have a slightly malformed jaw. His teeth, at the moment, don't meet; if when the abscess (if it is one) goes, they still don't meet, he's going to need a very special human that can frequently clip his teeth. This is provided he survives; he's teeney, and he has diarea. We're worried for him.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

All the ratties are adorable! Glad they are in a good home now! If I still lived in the UK I would definatly adopt some!


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

ema-leigh said:


> All the ratties are adorable! Glad they are in a good home now! If I still lived in the UK I would definatly adopt some!


Thank you 

If you have rat keeping friends in the UK, you could prod them in Lyns direction


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

Todays update mainly concerns his fella:









Alistair Darlings face was so out of proportions this morning that Lyn felt it necessary to take him to the vets. The vet thought it best to aneasthetise the little boy to find out exactly what was going on. Being such a diddy fella we were a little worried that he wouldn't come out of the anaesthetic, but he did. The good news; the reason his face is deformed is a MASSIVE abscess, which has now been lanced. Provided it does clear up successfully, then his jaw should realign, and he should lead a normal life. The vet also discovered that he has a kind of nappy rash around his penis. She beleives this has been caused by him cleaning himself with infected saliva (because of the abscess).

There are two girlies who have problems too, though not as major as Mr Darling. One girl is extremely thin, with sucked in sides and laboured breathing, so Lyn is treating her as you would any other rat in a similar state. Another girl, named Pippa appeared to barely have a left eye when she arrived. But with eye drops and Lyns magic touch her eyes are nearly matching now. Wooohoooo.


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

Update from Lyn:

_Sadly at about 8pm I found him cold and picked him up, warmed him up on a heat pad but sadly he died in my arms.

I am so unbelievably upset and can't stop crying. Such a little fighter who never stopped eating. We have buried him in a little tin, with a brand new hammock, several yoggies and a stash of food for his journey. I really thought he'd make it._


On a personal note, I'm really upset about this, as I know Lyn is. It's amazing how these little guys touch your heart in such a short period of time.


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## mollyzog (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm so sorry 
Rats are truly amazing creatures, and it's a terrible heartbreak to see them go :'(


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

mollyzog said:


> I'm so sorry
> Rats are truly amazing creatures, and it's a terrible heartbreak to see them go :'(


Thank you


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Awe Im sorry to hear he passed away. I was really rooting for him


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

ema-leigh said:


> Awe Im sorry to hear he passed away. I was really rooting for him


Thank you  It's so sad


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## ratscallions (Apr 20, 2010)

Update from Lyn:

_After losing Mr Darling it took me a day or so to get back on track. Group 1 are just so lovely and they always now kiss me and are so pleased to see me. Group 2 are shyer but getting there.

One of the girls from group 2 I found in with the boys I think is definitely pregnant so as we speak she is in her little cage to wait and see. She is pretty big though and it doesn't all seem a food belly.

Good news is the majority of the kits from group 1 and 2 are reserved already which is great news.

Nursing mums are all doing well and their babies are almost a week old now. We only lost one kit who was so small and under developed.

Have weaned others early as the mums were getting so protective it was making the kits nervous. So all kits together in their relevant sex groups. Photos soon of them as they have changed so much. There are lots of agouti stunners and black berkies in there. _


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