# Non-prescription meds.



## Leafgreen (May 21, 2012)

It's a reply to an ancient thread, but I found this thread today while doing a google search for baytril. Might help others. I have a sick ratty that needs some baytril but no way I can afford $150 to be seen on a weekend, plus they'll give her oxygen, then a prescription on Monday. Looking to see where I can get some today - my baytril was too old and I threw it out a month ago and now I have a very sick little girl with a myco flare up. http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/baytril.html


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## Leafgreen (May 21, 2012)

Better yet, pain med and antibiotic lists for rats. In a pinch you can find some as fish medicine to hold you over. Not suggesting that anyone should use these if they are able to go to a veterinarian - but if the choice is nothing or this.. this would hold you for a bit until you can get the poor ratty in to see a vet. http://rattitude.com/articles/information/pain-medication-guide-for-pet-rats-et-al/ http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm


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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

Leafgreen while it's wonderful to have those sites the problem is a lot of people will not know how to properly dose their ratties with it. It requires some medical training to figure out how to mix the meds properly so it's not too concentrated. For instance baytril at the 10% concentration on the bird website is too strong and will burn your ratties if given by any route. The bird website suggests putting it in the water bottle. That is not a good way to give meds because the rats may stop drinking the water because it tastes like meds. Have you ever left a pill in your mouth for too long? Tastes bad huh?

I'm not saying you can't use that but I'm just giving a heads up so people without the know how don't waste their money or hurt their ratties. I use bird and fish products for my rats just fine. I also use fish antibiotics for myself lol I have very crappy health insurance. 



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## Leafgreen (May 21, 2012)

I'm going to try this, a tetracyclin powder. Petsmart carries them for fish otc. Dosage seems to be the main problem and i'll have to research that for a while. I'll switch my rat over to dry food only and put a little sugar in the water to help entice her to drink more. And a little bit of ground up aspirin in baby food. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=10850841&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No


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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

I wouldn't do the aspirin since it's a blood thinner. Rat poisin is made from warfarin which is a human blood thinner. Granted they get it in very high doses in rat poison but too risky in my opinion. Hope your baby gets better 

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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Moved this to a new thread.


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## rattie-love-247 (Jul 9, 2013)

I use tetracycline for my rats as 2 are currently recovering from a respiratory infection that sadly killed 1 before i got this. 

The tetracycline powder comes in 10 individual packets. this is how you dose/administer it, 

**Since it goes in the water, this stuff will break down if exposed to light through a water bottle so ALL bottles its stored in need to be either a dark color or some solid non clear color. i have clearish colored bottles & i had some blue painters tape so i wrapped all the bottles with the tape to cover them better. 

1) dissolve 1 packet tetracycline completely in 4 1/2 cups cool water. Store in fridge up to 3 days. Try to use within the 3 days as well. 
*I own 8 rats so its easier to use this in 3 days for fewer rats, try using 1/2 the powder in 1/2 the amount water. 1/2 pckt to 2 1/4 cups cool water.*
2) give each rat no more then 3-4 oz. of the treated water each day so theres less waste. replace with fresh treated water from whats stored in the fridge. 

This treatment should go to 14 days. Extend to 30 if symptoms dont improve by day 14.

Now for distressed, labored breathing...

Steam treatments work wonders.

To do a steam treatment, place the rat having difficulty breathing in a small plastic carrier or bin with holes for ventilation. 

Microwave 2-3 cups water for 3 minutes.

Place this directly next to the container with the rat in it & cover it almost completely with a towel so that the steam from the 
water fills the container with the rat. 

reheat water & continue treatments as long as the rat is struggling to breathe. I've had to do this continuously to keep a treatment going for 
several hours until my rat could breathe a little more comfortably but it saved her life & bought her time while the tetracycline got to work on her R.I. 

Medication methods for this would be albuterol in a nebulizer but thats gonna require a prescription &* can be expensive. 
This is good to do when money is not available & its a good natural method that works quick.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

With the baytril, you have to dilute it. 10% baytril is roughly 100 mg per ml. Really strong since rats only need about 5-10 mg/kg. You have to heavily dilute it to get it to a safe concentration which can take quite a bit of math.

I can't say much on Tetracycline other then on rat forums, it's not recommended, but for many who raise feeder rats, it has saved many of them from dying of URIs. If I am right, there is a way to dose it so that you give like any other medicine and not in the water though. I think it's about 5mg/pound.

If you want, amoxicillin would be good to also keep on hand, and it's relatively cheap. (http://www.twincitypoultrysupplies.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=40) Btw, I think this website gets used often by rodent owners since on some of the products it states not for rodent use, which I am going to assume is from the strength of some of the medicines.

Natural remedies can also help, or at least help prevent some issues. Steaming as mentioned above also helps a lot with respiratory infections.


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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

If you get the 250mg packet of powder you dissolve it in 12.5ml of water and protect from light (I keep mine in a medicine bottle that is colored and that doesn't leak) 

To figure out how much to dose your rats you need their weight in kg. My smallest ratty weighs 350g which is .35kg (move the decimal over two spaces to the left)

The dosage per rat guide is 10mg/kg to 20mg/kg every 8-12 hrs 

So 10mg x .35kg = 3.5 /20 The lowest dose I can give my rat is .17ml I'll round it up to .2ml to make it easier to draw up the maximum dosage as 20mg/kg is .35ml so .2ml is not overdosing. 

I would draw up .2ml of the meds (shake well) and then draw up another .1ml of maple syrup or chocolate syrup is what mine prefer and give it to them that way so they don't fight me. The suck it right up and ask for more with the syrup. 

This way you get exact dosage and no guessing. You know you're giving your rats the adequate dose for their illness in a concentration that is easy for them to get down.

as far as how long It will keep I do notknow. the packet has 64 rat doses. If you have access to a very sensitive scale then you can make small batches that can be used within 3 days. 

as for the baytril I mix 1ml with 4ml of water (this is the safe concentration)

5mg x .35kg / 20 = .08ml I round up to.1ml


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## rattie-love-247 (Jul 9, 2013)

so how would amoxicillin be prepared? 
they're 250mg capsules...


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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

I'd break that in half and mix half of it in 2.5ml of water dosage for 350g rat at 10mg/lb is .14ml 

If you're going to dose the rat yourself make sure you know their exact weight otherwise you may over or under dose which is bad. If you under dose you could make the bacteria resistant to that drug if you overdose you could kill them . Also every antibiotic works against certain bacteria only. 

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## rattie-love-247 (Jul 9, 2013)

right. the weight wont be an issue as i have a scale i use that measures in grams as well.
the amoxicillin on that twincity site said it treats myco & respiratory infections. they're also capsules...the hollow pills with the medicine powder inside.
i fugure i'll have to empty the capsule & scoop out out half of it.


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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

You can use the whole pill then and mix it in 5ml of water. It is good for 14 days I always refrigerate mine but I don't think its necessary. 

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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

I wasn't saying the weight and thing specifically to you just in general people need to know that. 

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## rattie-love-247 (Jul 9, 2013)

would a whole 250 mg pill mixed with 5ml water = the 10mg/lb dose a rat would need?
how many oz of water would i need to give per water refill? my rats have 6 or 8 oz. bottles...


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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

Um... if you mix it how I said you dose it to them orally through a syringe. I don't do in the water bottle it tastes like crap and they might not drink as much and might not get the proper dosage

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## rattie-love-247 (Jul 9, 2013)

oh ok if it tastes yucky then i can mix it into a little yogurt for them yes? 
5ml is only like a tsp...
thats confusing me right now. how does 1 tsp of medicated yogurt treat 1 rat for 10 days?


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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

You mix the pill with 5ml of water not yogurt that means that 5ml of water is 250mg of amoxi. The dosage for a rat at that concentration weighing 400g is .2ml 5ml / .2ml is 25 so their are 25 doses in there so actually it's 12 and a half days worth of meds for a rat. 

If they won't take it then you can mix the dosage which is .2ml for a 400g rat into something to give to them I usually just draw up an extra .1ml of chocolate syrup. 
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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

Actually is 10mg/lb so its 15 days I was at work and put the wrong dosage down. I confused it with baytril because I'm dosing my rats for minor respiratory infection.


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## rattie-love-247 (Jul 9, 2013)

i just figured yogurt cuz it'd be yummier but ok. & Thx.


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## rattie-love-247 (Jul 9, 2013)

ok ive checked all my rats breathing sounds & 4 of them will need treatment & i weighed these 4 for their exact numbers. this doseage math is confusing as i do not do well with numbers & math formulas like this. 
let me know if you can help me figure the exact doses for these 4 rats.
The tetracycline ive been giving all of them has only prevented them from getting worse but has not taken away the R.I altogether. i may not buy any more of that & will likely just stick to the amoxicillin once i get it.


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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

Yes just give me their weights with their names and ill figure it up. I wouldn't give it with yogurt because yogurt has good bacteria in it and the yogurt with the antibiotics kind of cancels eachother out. You can give it with baby food but the pill needs to be mixed in to water first because it won't dissolve in baby food. Then you can give it to them hidden in a spoon full of baby food if you need to. 

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## rattie-love-247 (Jul 9, 2013)

oh ok i understand with the yogurt now. gotcha. 
how about some unsweetened applesauce? after its mixed with water like you said of course...i just wanna avoid the chocolate & would prefer a healthier alternative.
the 4 rats i have that'll need this are

Rex - 560g
Dottie - 283g
Mocha - 343g
BlueBelle - 323g


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## dr.zapp (Dec 24, 2012)

The OP question is answered in detail here- http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?76786-Baytril-Amoxy-URI-treatment-on-a-tight-budget.
As far as having a healthy alternative... All the different healthy things I tried did not hide the incredibly horrible taste of these drugs... go ahead, put a tiny dab of it on your tongue.. you will be spitting it out for hours. If you can find something, then great.. but at this point, the risk of dying from a URI is much more than from the small amount of "junk food" you are hiding the drug in.

This treatment is effective and easy to give, most rats love nutella (or peanut butter). I have substituted Doxycycline in place of Amoxicillin. You only need to avoid dairy products with Baytril and Doxy, and other tetracycline relatives, since calcium/iron/magnesium bind these drugs and interfere with absorption (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a682063.html). Calcium does not interfere with Amoxycillin, so it can be taken with dairy (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a685001.html). 
But, you say, Nutella has skim milk! It does have 8.7% skim milk, but the amount of calcium does not appear to interfere with the drug effectiveness. This table shows Nutella to be close to peanut butter in calcium content- http://www.nutella.com.au/nutrition/


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## dr.zapp (Dec 24, 2012)

Since you are using Amoxi I amend my previous post, since it does not taste nearly as bad as Doxy/Baytril and can be put in almost anything the rats like. Mine love it in baby food green beans.

For the Amoxicillin dose- it is 22.2 mg/kg twice a day, so the dosages are- Rex 22.2x0.560= 12.4 mg, Dottie 22.2x0.283= 6.3 mg, Mocha 7.6 mg and bluebelle 7.2 mg. The easiest way to do this would be have one master mix of amoxi and give different individual doses. If you make up a solution of 30 mg/ml amoxi (suspend one 250 mg capsule in 8.3 ml of whatever you are giving- baby food, applesauce, etc.) that would be 12.4 mg/30 mg/ml = 0.4 ml for Rex, 0.21 ml for Dottie, 0.25 ml for Mocha and 0.24 ml for Dottie (close enough that you could give 0.25 to both). If you have a 1 ml syringe with 0.1 ml markings this is easy to give the right amounts in liquid form. Amoxicillin is good for 2 weeks in the fridge. 
The other way to do this is to make up 4 different concentrations and then you can give the same amount to all 4... I can figure that out if you want, but it is more complicated on the initial dilutions, while the other way is more complicated on the administration.


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