# Male or Female!? - (Picture Included!)



## Iggy82 (May 13, 2007)

I'm a very proud new owner of two baby boy hairless rats, however, I'm starting to question the skills of the pet shop employee as one of my boys has huge testicles and the other doesn't appear to have much there at all. 

Luckily, Jasper (the girl/boy in question) has been very co-operative and I have managed to take quite a high res picture of his/her bits. Can you help me sex him/her, I'm new to rats so help is needed!!

Please click here if the image does not load or to see it *in full size*!. Thanks for your help!


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## Lise (Feb 26, 2007)

Yeah, those are nipples. And no testes in sight. That is definitely a girl. Separate them right away, and pray to god she isn't already pregnant!


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## Iggy82 (May 13, 2007)

Oh no! The boys don't have nipples then?!


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

*I believe you have a little girl there... The nipples scream girl lol. I can sort of see how the spacing might get confusing but in this pic. She aprears to be a girl. *

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=18&cat=1804&articleid=2584

Your female isn't as close as this female but it's also a mouse lol. SO I can see why it might be confusing. 

EDIT: Yep boys don't have nipples , it also says that in the link above .


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

i defo think its a girly


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## Lise (Feb 26, 2007)

Iggy82 said:


> Oh no! The boys don't have nipples then?!


That is correct.


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## Iggy82 (May 13, 2007)

NO!!

I dont know what to do, should I take the girl back surely!?


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## Iggy82 (May 13, 2007)

Are you sure its not possible that its a boy? Human men have nipples surely!? I am devastated I've grown so attached, I posted the same question on Yahoo answers and someone has said they think its a boy


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## Lise (Feb 26, 2007)

Unfortunately that is not a human, it is a rat.

I am 100% positive that male rats do not have nipples. Trust me. That is a GIRL.

If they are over 7 weeks of age, chances are she is a pregnant girl.

Also -- if you can see the testicles clearly on your other male, you know what they look like... I'm not sure how you can be confused. :?


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## Iggy82 (May 13, 2007)

They are only just 7 weeks, I'm going to have to take her back I guess, I can't believe this, stupid idiot pet stores, I'm so upset


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## Lise (Feb 26, 2007)

Chances are good she may be having babies in 3 weeks then.

I personally would not get another rat from that pet store, even if you take her back, you do not want to support what they are doing.

Is there a more responsible pet store, or rescue in your area?


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

u dont HAVE to take her back, just keep ur rats seprate until u can get the male rat to the vets and get him chopped then u can keep both the rats


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## Iggy82 (May 13, 2007)

Surely that will be expensive? I dont know of another pet store near me, I live quite far away from everything.


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## Lise (Feb 26, 2007)

You can call and ask how much a neuter is. I have two neutered males living with my females.

Any which way you need to separate them at this very moment, if you haven't already!!


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## Iggy82 (May 13, 2007)

I cant separate them I dont have anywhere to put the other, this is such a tradegy, I am so angry/upset, I think I will go back to the pet store and exchange for a male, they can deal with the female if she is pregnant, I shouldn't have to, I know that sounds cruel but its thier fault I should have to take responsibility


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

calm down, it might not be as bad as you think. If you have time to be around for the birth and spare cash in case she needs the vet you can keep her and then find homes for the babies or maybe give them back to the shop. I would start looking into pregnancy, birth and motherhood before you decide you cant cope. Want kind of cage/cages do you have? Can they be divided? Can you find a cheep cage or something? try gumtree.com. possibly the shop might foot the bill because it was there mistake. I was in Â£strecher today there were massive plastic tubs for Â£7 you could cover the top with mini chicken wire to make a labor suite. Stay calm she dosent look like shes going to pop tonight 

Also yuou might want to concider giving her to a rescue depending on what shop you got her from I have heard some horrible stories about shops with holding health care-Â£?? c-section for Â£5 rat? I dont know


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

*I understand how your feeling, If you don't end up trading her in you can always surrender the babies to a rescue? maybe you could find a rescue near you and surrder her to them? Rescues are a great place and they might even have a little boy you can adopt? *


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## Iggy82 (May 13, 2007)

I dont know what to do, where can I find information on a close rescue centre in the uk?


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## OnlyOno (Apr 4, 2007)

i really like what lady is saying. a rubbermaid tub with a well-ventilated top will be fine for the momma and her babies, and you can keep them there until they are 5 weeks old, and then either adopt them out or take them to a rescue. taking them back to the petstore can be a very bad idea, especially if they can't sex them; you don't want the babies to all end up in the same cage at an older age and then make babies with eachother! if the pregnancy goes well and the birth goes well, it should not cost you much else to take care of a litter of rats, and everyone here will be here to help with info!

the rubbermaid tub and a lid will be like $10 and you can just cut plenty of holes in it, or you can do as lady says and cover the top with hardware cloth or something similar. once momma has had her babies, see if you can adopt her out as well. it would be better if you maybe took her to a shelter instead of taking her to the petstore; maybe you can tell the petstore she died or something so you can get the male, but don't take her back to the petstore if you don't have to.  that sounded a lot worse than i meant for it to. i agree that they owe you a male, but see if there is a way you can get one without taking the female back, i think is what i meant, ha ha.


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

http://www.ratplanet.co.uk/

http://www.myspace.com/dontbuy_petshop_animals

and

http://www.ratforum.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=14177.html#14177

oh and... 

http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/community/viewforum.php?f=23


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

ok if u are prepaired 2 take ur girl back to the shop please at least consider the rspca ive just checked and they take rats, if u dont no how pm me and i will sort it out, at least the rspca no who to look after her.


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## Lise (Feb 26, 2007)

I don't know about in the UK, but in North America many/most hairless lines the mothers have difficulty lactating and the babies die if they aren't supplemented with milk replacer by hand.


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## Iggy82 (May 13, 2007)

Yeah I see the arguement here, but I dont have the time nor money for even a small plastic tub for a mother and babies, I'm going to have to go against my morals and just exchange the female for a male like some kind of faulty product.

Is there anything I can threaten them with, like reporting them to some authority, after all, everyone is human and this pet store is fairly reputable so it may have been an honest mistake. They keep all sorts of reptiles, birds, marine fish and tropical and they all look healthy. I'm fairly confident if the female is pregnant that they will look after her but I feel they need more of a shock than an angry customer to ensure this doesn't happen again in the future. I dont have any way of separating the two immediately, lets just hope she's not pregnant, they are siblings, but I guess incest doesn't count in the rat world am I right?


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

Medications for an average rat with respiratory disease will cost around Â£330 every year.
"
And removal of a lump and all its associated costs can go well into hundreds of pounds.

With Vet Fee Insurance for small mammals, you can have the peace of mind that that in the unfortunate event that he or she needs it, costs associated with your rat, rabbit, ferret or other small mammalsâ€™ health and welfare will be covered.

Insurance - that may cost from as little as 22p a day â€“ means you donâ€™t have to worry anymore about setting aside money for those inevitable vetsâ€™ bills."

http://www.cavyrescue.co.uk/small-pet-insurance.shtml

If you are that hard up I would concider waiting till you have more money and get rats then, they are lovely but vets bills can be miserable


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## Iggy82 (May 13, 2007)

What a disaster, I've tried so hard to make sure they'd be happy and I'm sure they are but its not going to work out in the long run is it. I've already looked at Cavy Rescue insurance but the small print gives hardly anything in the long run, after all, insurance companies have to make money some how.


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## OnlyOno (Apr 4, 2007)

well, it counts in any world, it's just not usually a problem in offspring unless it has happened a few times. i'm sorry that happened to you, it's a real bummer and i'm sure you don't feel good about just replacing a pregnant animal. i wish you weren't so far away!!!  i don't know if that's enough to make a call for animal rights on them, but you could look into it. let's just hope it was a one-time thing...


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## Iggy82 (May 13, 2007)

Thanks for your support everyone, I'll try and take a half day tomorrow morning and take the lady back in exchange for a young buck, what a shame.

I would of had my lad neutered but the nearest rat vet I can find is 25 miles way, that a long trip for a rat in a box then to have his balls cut off!


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

That seems rather close. My vet is about that far away. Some people drive 5-6 hours to their closest exotic vet.

Ultimately though it's your decision. Just make sure they new rat you get has its male danglies. 

Poor girl though, having to find a home and then get sent back. I hope it's a decent pet store, well probably not because they mis sexed a rat. That's really hard to do.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

dang if you think 25 miles is long, It about that for me to get to school lol. I wake up at 6:30 leave at 7:00 then get to school at 7:30 lol. My vet is about.... 28ish miles away. Lol I thought that was close  I'm the weird one I guess lol.


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## Iggy82 (May 13, 2007)

Well I took her back today and they've exchanged her for a buck. They said they didn't think it was likely she could be pregnant after 8 weeks old but I'm sure she could be surely?

She was put back where she came from, a large tank of about 10 rats in total of mixed gender so she could have easily got pregnant from any of the other bucks even if they had of got the gender of my rat right in the first place!

I'm really angry with the pet store, don't ever use the "Japanese Koi Company" in Henlow, Bedfordshire, UK; they call themselves a pet superstore but they should stick to thier koi carp if they cant sex a rodent or know that you should sell rats preferably in two's in the first place. Oh well, at least she's with her large family now, hopefully if she does fall pregnant they'll do a reasonable job of looking after the kittens. They don't seem to know much but I know the guys who run the rodent section are good hearted, just short of a few screws maybe.

My new guy, Mylo, to accompany my other lad, Rahzel, is getting on fine, they are from the same litter, they had a bit of a play fight to begin with but now they're both fast asleep together


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## Iggy82 (May 13, 2007)

Nazarath said:


> dang if you think 25 miles is long, It about that for me to get to school lol. I wake up at 6:30 leave at 7:00 then get to school at 7:30 lol. My vet is about.... 28ish miles away. Lol I thought that was close  I'm the weird one I guess lol.


I'm guessing you live in the USA? Its just I know everything is quite spaced out there, its a big place, 25 miles seems quite far in the UK, to me anyway, I dont like the thought of having to keep the rat in a box for 20 mins or so, the pet store is only 5 mins drive from my house you see. 

Oh well, whats done is done, I go by my instincts a lot because they're usually right and I don't feel the pet shop will cause any harm to the young girl if she does turn out to be pregnant, as I said before, they just don't seem very knowledgeable, but they are kind-hearted, which I know is not great for pet shop staff but I feel she'll be OK


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## Sara_C (Mar 10, 2007)

You could try reporting the pet shop to your local council. I've just written a letter to mine about a particularly bad pet shop i found. I'll send you a copy of it if you like.

If you find your council's website there will be a section of pet shop licensing - look on there and there'll be a list of things the owners have to adhere to by law. Also might be worth getting in touch with th RSPCA.


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## Iggy82 (May 13, 2007)

Sara_C said:


> You could try reporting the pet shop to your local council. I've just written a letter to mine about a particularly bad pet shop i found. I'll send you a copy of it if you like.
> 
> If you find your council's website there will be a section of pet shop licensing - look on there and there'll be a list of things the owners have to adhere to by law. Also might be worth getting in touch with th RSPCA.


Thanks very much for the reply, a copy of your letter would be great, please private message to me, I'll have a look on my council website now


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

My vet is 1 1/2 hours away. Rats, as long as they are in comfortable carry cages, settle in quite well and most usually relax, sleep and eat on the way there and back. I take public transit.


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