# my guys



## bammargera23

this is Jack on top of his cage









this is J.R. on his cage.









this is Ville the new one. i want to show him but I donâ€™t know if he is actually show quality. does anyone here know?









this is Houdini (yes he has tried to escape before) he is so little! today I was looking all through the cage for him and could not find him! I finally found him in his little house! He is so fast 2! He jumped over the cage!









this is the 2 new ones together also showing just how small Houdini is!


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## aqualaureena

Houdini is gorgeous!


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## bammargera23

thank you! my dad love him 2! lol 
oh, by the way, houdini is realy jumpy an wont let me touch him let alone pick him up. ville is sitting on my shoulder as i tipe this. does any one know how to make them get used to me. :? 

thanks
Shannon


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## chrisstrikeagain

houdini looks like a possum! or some not a rat small animal/ what a weird paten but its cute.
ALL of them are cute


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## Night

Houdini is an African Soft Fur rat. Fancy rats or pet rats are a domesticated breed of the Brown Rat (Rattus norvegicus). Two different species completely.

I'm 99.9% sure that AFS rats shouldn't live with a different species of rat - but instead others of their own kind. It's not safe or a good idea at all to house different species together.

Also - what kind of bedding is that, and what kind of cages do you use?


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## Forensic

Aren't ASF rats also known for being very skittish, nervous, and possibly aggressive, no matter the amount of socialization?


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## bammargera23

oh...well the pet store was telling me he was a dawrf! god i hate pet stores! i dont have another cage he would fit in....i cages i'm using are both rat cages from petco and the bedding is pine. what do i do? do i just have 2 sell him or somthing? i'm only 13 and i dont want 2 deal with having to get a smaller cage more of his kind and getting bite all the time...


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## Taru

You've got a few problem there. Pine is really bad for rats, you need to get a different kind of bedding as soon as possible. The phenols in pine and cedar (the stuff that makes it smell nice) is toxic to rats. Aspen is a good alternative, as are a bunch of other litters. Here is a link to a site explaining why you need a different bedding then aromatic woods (pine, cedar, etc.)

http://www.ratfanclub.org/litters.html

Also, you need to measure your cages, and put their dimensions into the cage calculator to see if you are giving your rats enough room to be comfortable. You can find a link to that in the "Rat Homes" section of this forum.

Lastly, if you can take the ASF rat back I would do so, and complain that they didn't label it properly, then get another rat friend for Ville. Be sure it's the same sex as Ville, you don't want babies!

Emy


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## Forensic

Yeah, if they won't take him back could you complain to their manager/corporate headquarters?

I know it's sad to return a pet, but ASF rats can be mean and that wasn't what you'd wanted.


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## bammargera23

Thanks Emy
I all ready made sure the ratties had enough room and they do. about the bedding though it says its a new brand...its not pine...I thought it was...i donâ€™t know what it is...my friends use it all the time though. I just went out today to take Houdini back. I went to elmers (where I got ville) and got Bam! I will post a pic of him later but he is a hooded ginger like! so cute!


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## Forensic

Are they going to properly mark Houdini for what he is?


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## bammargera23

I donâ€™t know. they said that he was not a ASF and almost did not give me my money back because they had no where to put him and my dad said well thatâ€™s not our fault and they put him in a container in the back of the store! I finally did get my money back and I got Bam at elmers!


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## Forensic

If he's not an ASF what did they say he was? He's not a dwarf rat. :?


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## Taru

It's good you got your money back! I would try and find out what they label him as, so that other people don't get put into the same situation as you. If possible I would call the headquarters of the store and complain about it. Even if you got your money back you should never have been sold a rat under false pretenses. 

If the store doesn't know what it's selling, then I don't think they should be allowed to have any animals sold at all...but well that's life. At least make sure that they don't mislabel that little guy again.

Emy


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## Poppyseed

Do you have a picture of the bedding or the brand (like the bag) It looks like pine to me.

Personally I would not use the bedding even if it could potentially be pine. I would throw it out and use towels or old clothes until I could get enough money together to get carefresh if I didn't have enough at the time.

Poor Houdini :/ he probably will be sold as a regular rat again. Stupid pet store. I would also look into reporting them.


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## bammargera23

ok
yea this is the bag for the bedding








my friend has been useing it for as long as its been out and it has gave her no problums









and this is the new guy BAM!

















vill was sleeping...









so where jack and J.R.


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## Forensic

Softwoods are woods like pine and cedar.


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## Poppyseed

Yeah, I would stop useing it a.s.a.p. She's lucky she didn't have any problems but I wouldn't want to chance it on my rats even if she hasn't. Use stuff labled aspen, carefresh, yesterday's news, or wood stove pelllets or even fabric bedding.


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## uldaman

my bedding is hemp


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## bammargera23

i was looking on that cage space thing and it does not take feet! i was so mad! lol any way i'm going to make a cage. how many rats would a 7" by 8" foot cage hold? bigger then a ferret nation i think...


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## Taru

You just have to convert it to inches, so that would be an 84" by 96" cage. I will go enter that in the rat calculator if you tell me how many levels it has and if the 8' is the height or the depth.

Emy


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## bammargera23

the hight is 7 
the depth is 2 feet
and the with is 8 









this is somewhat of what it's ganna look like


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## Forensic

:lol: Um... 56 rats, but you have to take into account the bit for storage (at the bottom).

Also, if it's seven feet tall, that may be hard to hang hammocks in/clean at that height.


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## bammargera23

thanks Forensic. i have a small ladder i could use. someone emaild me saying they had a baby hairless i could have!


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## Taru

Wow! *wants 56 rats* I would consider making it maybe not so tall, but that's about it, unless you want to put more levels in that what you have right there.

Emy


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## Forensic

Are those doors on the front? Door that are 4' long could be hard to handle/unstable. :?


If those aren't, how would you position the doors for easy cleaning?

Will it be on casters? (SOOOOO much help!)


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## bammargera23

yea but me and my best friend are thinking of making a rat rescue. he will have another cage of the same size.


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## bammargera23

whats casters?


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## Forensic

bammargera23 said:


> whats casters?


Wheels.

If you're doing a rat rescue you will need a way to separate the cage (not all the ratties will get along), a nursey cage (lots of rescues are preggie mommies/nursing mommies), and a place to quarantine (outside of this cage), at the least.


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## bammargera23

yea i know. shawn is going to do yhe pregos because he already knows how that stuff works. and i still have three big cages.


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## Taru

I think what Forensic is saying is that if you want to start a rescue it would actually be better if you made a bunch of smaller cages, like instead of making one cage for 56 rats, make 10 cages that can fit 5-6 rats. That way you can have males and females apart more easily, and you can have different cages for new rats, and rats that have been there a while, and a hospital cage for sick rats, and a quarantine cage for rats that have just arrived. I think that if you did it that way it would be better all around.

Emy


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## bammargera23

ello every one! how are u guys doing? My best friend just got me a new baby! his name is Jacoby! Jacoby is the lead singer of my favirite band Papa roach! i will post a pic of him in a little.


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## cjshrader

I just wanted to say a couple things...

First, eight feet wide? That's really getting into the realm of ridiculousness. I don't think Night's two Ferret Nations together even comes close to the type of cage you're looking at building. I never thought I'd say this but maybe it's even *too* big. 2 four feet wide/six feet tall cages might serve you better.

Second, if you're only 13 do you think it might not be the best idea to try and start a rat rescue? There are significant costs involved that I know I certainly wouldn't have been able to handle at 13. I couldn't handle them now at 23. And also if you didn't want to deal with one rat that might potentially bite, what would you do with rats that were brought in specifically because of that?

I just think it's going to be a lot more work and especially cost than you might be able to give right now, as you also have to focus on school. I'm not trying to get on your case, just wanted to throw my opinion out there.


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## sonoma

I think itâ€™s great that you want to start a rescue! 

But I also think cjshrader has some very good pointsâ€¦rescue is a major commitment of time and money. Start-up costs have to come out of your own pocket, and even once you get going you canâ€™t count on donations to pay the bills. Cages, food, bedding, and especially vet bills add up to a lot of cash! 

Of course I donâ€™t know your situation or how involved your parents are with all of this, but perhaps you could try fostering some rats and see how that goes? If you are really committed to starting a rescue I know there are several people on this forum who run rescues or are involved in rescue, Iâ€™m sure they would have tons of good advice for you! 

Anyways, good luck (and your ratties are very cute!) :wink:


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## bammargera23

u know what u guys are kinda right...pluss i was in Elmers today and my dad wants 2 get a farret! i said i dont have that kninda money and he said i should save for one so when i'm old enough i'm ganna work there and also buy a ferret...


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