# Bunnies and Rats



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Forenote: No, I don't plan to house them together.

My sister's two bunnies aren't getting along. She wants me to take one of the bunnies until she can rehome it. However, there are just not enough hours in my days to free range a bunny for as long as it needs and then free range my males and my females. I try to do an hour minimum with the rats, so that is two hours; I believe rabbits need at LEAST 4 hours out. On top of this, I do have other life commitments unfortunately 

Given my cage size...time out is likely necessary. My spare cage offers around 4 sq ft so :/ Would the bunny do fine locked in my room (10f x 12ft) with the cage left open while I was at school? Otherwise, could it be allowed out at the same time as my two males? She is about 1ft long, pretty light dunno what type.

Also, any tips on rabbits? The last rabbit I owned was when I was 12 and I called it Diablo. So. Yeah. 
I'm reading up on it, any tips? She is about a year old. I have hay, kale, carrots, some chews. Does she need any toys? I have a bunch of hidey holes around my room since it is the free range area. What toys are great?


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Having the rabbit out in your room is a good idea provided you do sufficient bunny proofing. Since every rabbit is different in what they will and won't chew or 'get in to' it may take some initial observation and tweaking. 
My rabbits are free range downstairs, and the (future) rats will be housed upstairs in my son's room but will be allowed downstairs occassionally too. I asked on my rabbit forum about rats before deciding on them and some on there have both rats & rabbits. They said the rats really don't interact with the rabbits. 

You'll want to be sure to not change the rabbits diet from what it is used to. Any changes need to be done very gradually. Bunny will already be stressed just from moving to a new place. 

Kale is high in calcium and so shouldn't be offered every day. A 1" slice of carrot is the max per day allowed for a rabbit (too high in sugar). I have diet info on my site as well as bunny proofing tips. 

Does your sister have males, females? Do you know their age and if they are neutered? What will be the age of the one you'll watch? 
I may also be able to help her with bonding the rabbits (if they aren't fixed, that is the first problem. Hormones will prevent solid bonds).


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

The female is fixed. I've suggested fixing the male (who is causing the problems) but I don't think she will. I just don't know if I should take the male and get him fixed for her; Coco (the fixed female) is afraid of most everything so him being calmer still might not make her happy.

Coco is about a year old.
I purchased the male in May, he was pretty tiny and young then.

I have my room rat-proofed, I was hoping it was about the same. My main concern is my parakeets are cageless, I only confine them when the rats are out. I don't want them confined all day and night :/


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Unfortunately, both rabbits need to be fixed in order to properly bond. Those hormones just interfere too much otherwise. The good news is that neutering is usually considerably less costly than spaying. 
If the two have been fighting though, they will need to be separated for awhile. The neuter won't guarantee that they will bond especially if they've fought in the past. But it is possible. The upside would be that if he is neutered, then he will be eligible to bond with another spayed female if it doesn't work with your sister's girl. 

I've had diamond doves out with my rabbits before. It wasn't an issue. You'd have to watch (again) but I suspect the parakeets would ignore the rabbit and vice-versa. It probably wouldn't be a problem to have them both out at the same time. The parakeets won't wander on the floor (though my doves did). Just minimize the amount of spilled bird seed that the rabbit tries to eat. 

Some rabbits enjoy chewing carpet, so you'd have to check for that. They are also very quick at chewing through electrical cords. Even if he's litter trained, I'd confine him to his cage for the first day or two to be sure he knows his litter box in the new surroundings. You wouldn't want him trying to pee on carpet or bed.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Okay. Sorry to bombard you with questions, I am reading your site now. When I rat proofed my bedroom, I literally took everything but cages, a bookshelf, and my bed (on floor, no beneath) and tv out. It is about 120 sq ft. Coco would have access to this (assuming she can't be out with rats) on average from:
Monday: 630am-930pm
Tuesday: 2pm-745pm
Wednesday: 9am-4pm
Thursday: 9am-745pm
Friday: 630am-3pm
Saturday: 830a-930pm
(No Sunday)
Would this be sufficient? Between those times she would be confined to the 4 sq ft cage which isn't awesome but I didn't get rabbits for a reason :/

I'm not sure if I should try to bond with her or not? She is very nervous as I said and often "thumps" the floor before fleeing to hide in her cage. Should just hanging out with her suffice? I pick her up tomorrow. She's met me before. She is willing to be held/cuddled but I don't know if that is something she enjoys. She's been with us for about a month now, and hasn't changed. She is a "repeat customer" at the shelter so I'm trying to figure out what to do. I've tried getting the male to stop being a butthole to the female but it's constant and even without it she wants nothing to do with any rabbits.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Divit said:


> If the two have been fighting though, they will need to be separated for awhile. The neuter won't guarantee that they will bond especially if they've fought in the past. But it is possible. The upside would be that if he is neutered, then he will be eligible to bond with another spayed female if it doesn't work with your sister's girl.


Lucy, the male who is not neutered, is persistently and aggressive humping her almost constantly. They tried separate cages, but Lucy just circles around it and terrorizes her. Coco is so nervous and high strung since we've got her, she just likes to sit in corners or up on ledges and thumps at the slightest hint of another rabbit. Even if he was neutered and stopped humping her, Coco just hates other rabbits around her :/ (She had two other rabbits we decided to rehome because of it...)


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Females, even spayed ones, can be very territorial and unreceptive to new "intruders". We went through 2 other males before finding an acceptable match for my current female. There is the occasional rabbit that just won't bond and is best kept single. Coco may be one of those. 

Bringing her into a new environment may end up being good for her. And just hanging out with her will probably be the quickest and best way for her to get comfortable with you. Ignoring her for awhile will be a good thing, especially after the pestering she got from Lucy. She may very well come around. Some rabbits just take awhile to get comfortable. Some take a few days, but others can take many months. 

For now, your schedule for her is workable. As you see how things go with her, you can consider alternatives. If floor space is limited and you'd like to give her more cage space, a NIC cage (shown on my site) can be made with the same footprint but with a 2nd or 3rd upper level. 

No need to apologize for asking questions. Rabbits are my passion and I love helping people regarding rabbits.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

She never attacks, only runs away and thumps. I had convinced my sister that she should get her original rabbit a friend so its sad that Coco might not be a bondable rabbit. I wish the shelter would've told us.

I definitely don't want to keep her. She is adorable, but I have a dog, rats, and birds on my plate. I'm trying to convince my sister to let me take Lucy to be neutered, and am hoping it'll be cheap.


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Sometimes the shelters just don't know. Was she from a generic (dog/cat) shelter or from a rabbit rescue? The rabbit rescues are usually more knowledgeable and they will work with a bunny owner to find a bondmate. They often even allow exchanges if a bond isn't working. 

If you do get Lucy neutered and hope to bond him with Coco, be sure to give him about 6 weeks after surgery to allow his hormones to dissipate. Those hormones can linger for a month (sometimes 2 months) and they can get in the way of bonding. The neutral territory will be also key when attempting to re-bond.

Good luck and let me know what you decide and how things are going.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I've convinced her to at least call for pricing on neutering. I will keep Coco during that time; if it has to be two months then that's fine. Where should we do neutral territory?

She was from a cat/dog shelter. I ranted on here about their pocket pet room. The rabbits were confined to small cages with "cute" ones being left to run in a small oval puppy run. We took three home, rehomed two that just weren't working (aggression, etc) and Coco is the third :/


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

My site has some links that will direct you to really good bonding info. The neutral territory has to be somewhere that neither rabbit has ever been before. Bathrooms are one popular spot. 

Often, the dog/cat shelters don't understand rabbits. Many rabbits end up in shelters because of hormonal aggression. Unfortunately, pet stores do a terrible job of informing new owners that this is what happens to rabbits. Starting at about 3 1/2 months or as late as 6 months of age, rabbits begin to get hormonal. Signs can vary but can include aggression, lunging, biting, growling, forgetting litter habits and spraying urine. This is when many people give up on their rabbits. They assume they have a crazy or mean rabbit so they turn them in. No one told them that all they need to do is get the rabbit spayed or neutered. 
Well that was my rant about pet store rabbits.

Hopefully your sister will be able to neuter him and have the 2 bond. I think Coco will appreciate having some time away from Lucy by being with you. Sounds like you are on the right track. It's just so cute to see a bonded pair of rabbits.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

View attachment 77298
Here's Coco in the cage (Bird cage up top). Right now she is just digging through the bedding so I might increase the amount of bedding. Gonna add more houses tonight, mod the cage a bit. I was told too much would overwhelm her but I dunno. I know the rule is give them time to get comfortable, but the cage is super small. She nuzzled into my neck when I was getting her, could I just let her out tonight? I am trying to follow all the rules but I really want her to be comfortable.

She's about the size of my dog :/ I would never confine my dog to that cage for a day.

My sister is calling about neutering tomorrow. If it isn't too expensive, she is going to neuter him. She told me Coco has been so stressed lately she's been peeing on herself?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Okay. For reference, I suffer from making impulsive decisions. Since adulthood, to counter this I always study animals for two to three months, sit in pet stores and watch/play with them etc. This is the first animal I've ever owned without knowing how to care for it. I apologize :/

Right now, she has a hay basket, her hammock (sister packed it?), and a box in the cage; she's got a bit of fleece to fuss with. I put some hay and extra bedding in because she seems to enjoy digging. Do they play with toys? What type? Outside of the cage are some sticks to chew, a house to hide in, another box, a litter box, a hide house, and I am thinking of leaving the travel bin cage out to chill in as well. If you have suggestions I would love them, as I am willing to go buy her stuff. I am already going to the dollar store for a whicker basket for her, I have a dig box full of package peanuts that is sold for ferrets to dig in - is that safe? 

Also, is it possible I am allergic to her? Is it just the hay? I am sneezing something awful.

I am reading about rabbits "mingling with other pets" (rabbit.org). I wouldn't let her meet my girl rats (just because that's 9 rats), but my boys maybe? Also, I have two terriers. They listen to me very well and are about her size. Could she maybe be trusted with them under my watchful eye? She has met a german shephard before without panicking and such (the dog loves all animals).


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I cleaned up and set everything up. Is this look okay? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOMBUroR6pU&feature=youtu.be


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Can I use a water bowl for her? She kicked all her food out so I am going to offer food and water outside of the cage, and she'll have her water bottle inside the cage.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bunny will not exit cage.


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Sorry I've been away from the forum. First off, don't worry about her not coming out of the cage. This isn't surprising to me. Give her a couple days. She's still adjusting to the new sights, sounds and smells and is likely overwhelmed. Even though the cage is small, it is still her place of security for now so she is 'staying safe.'

In the video, there appeared to be a couple packing peanuts on the floor, then I saw a box full of them. More than likely she will attempt to ingest them which would be dangerous to her. I would not use them. Be sure there aren't any stray peanuts on the floor. Shredded newspaper, or hay would be a safe alternative for a 'dig box.' Not all rabbits seem interested in a dig box but she may like it. 

I also noticed a cord (TV maybe) on the floor. I haven't met a rabbit yet that wouldn't chew through one. You can either raise it out of her reach, block it off, or cover it with some tubing from Lowes. 

The sneezing is likely from the hay. You might want to see if it is dusty or moldy. If it is either, you'll want to get some new hay. You can also try different types of hay (see my site for options). Some people are more sensitive to certain types of hay. 

A water bowl is actually preferable to a bottle. It is more natural for them and they drink more that way. There is a bowl from Petsmart that twists onto a clamp that works great. 

Hmmm.. I'm typing in the "quick reply." Let me continue with another post....


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

I was looking at your video again (great idea to post that, btw, --most helpful) and I think I have an idea you could consider. If you have (or can get) an x-pen, you could give her a simple, yet larger cage area. The area under the window (window near the DCN) could be used for the x-pen. To give you an idea of what I mean, see these pics. This was a temporary set up but it should help you picture what I mean. Yours wouldn't be quite as wide since you'd need access to the DCN, but it would give Coco considerably more room. 













Then you wouldn't have to worry about her being in such a small cage (it is very small for her size). 
I could not see the hammock in the pic or video, but I did see what looked like a bed. Hammocks are not recommended for rabbits. The only way they are safe is if they are very taut so they are more like a shelf. In the photos above, imagine Coco's current cage where I have the plastic carrier lid. 

There are toy ideas on my site too. If you get a wicker basket, be sure it is not coated or colored. Willow and seagrass baskets are safe for chewing. Another favorite toy is an empty tp tube stuffed tight with hay. Cardboard boxes with doors and windows cut out are fun. They also like tunnels. 

Since she is still adjusting to the new area, I wouldn't try introducing her to the other animals yet. My rabbits have always gotten along with my dogs but I have a method that I use to introduce them. I can explain that down the road if you wish. For now, if you get the x-pen set-up, just keep the dogs and rabbit separate. Once she's settled, you could allow the dogs in the room while she is behind the pen. You'll want to be sure that the dogs don't bark at all. They can sniff each other through the bars. At that point, it's making sure the dogs are taught to stay calm around the rabbit. 

Let me know if you come up with other questions along the way.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Okay, no peanuts. Didn't know if they were safe since they were sold for ferrets to dig in. 
The cord is put up when the caged animals are out, so no worries there.
I didn't know that on water bowls! Is it alright if t is shared? What I mean is my dogs will probably try to drink out of it.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Sorry, your post must've happened JUST before mine.
The hammock is a "hanging bed" type. I will take it out if she isn't likely to use it; I can put it in a box for a bed to snuggle in. I can't really afford the x-pen right now (she wasn't put in my monthly expenses!), but while I'm at school/work the dogs are confined out of my room for the safety of my pets so she has around 12 hours out of cage almost daily to herself. Would it be okay? Without the hammock, she has about enough room for 4 of her which isn't awesome :/ I just don't know her sleep schedule.


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

12 hours out sounds great. My only concern right now would be that bunny-proofing is tailored to each individual bunny. Since she isn't yet coming out of the cage on her own, you haven't had the opportunity to observe her and see what she gets into. I usually like to observe a new rabbit as she gets used to a new area. That's how I catch potential danger spots. Some rabbits will ingest things that could cause a gut blockage. That's where having a blocked off area (like an x-pen) is handy. It gives her a larger area that you know is bunny-proofed and safe. 

Another option you could consider if an x-pen isn't in the budget, is to get creative with what you already have. I couldn't quite make out what was under the TV, but it appeared to be a large plastic bin? I was also noticing the large black shelf unit behind the rabbit cage. Not sure how stable it is, but I was wondering whether that black shelf could rotate 90degrees so that the open shelves face the DCN (But shelf is still to the right of that window near the DCN). I wondered if that would create an area between the back of the shelf and the other window that is near the rabbit cage. Then it would just be a matter of blocking off the front.
Is this making any sense?? 

Typically rabbits rest alot during the day. They are active in the evenings and early mornings. But they have their spurts scattered throughout the day.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I usually leave before the sun is up, and return around the time it set. So far, she seems to enjoy destroying the little hay balls I have. 

The bookshelf won't rotate; my original intention was to take it out but it broke and is now only stable vertical and will fall to pieces if I try to move it -- It's like 100lbs empty, so I just closed up behind/beside/underneath it. I have a spare door (lol) that I will see if it can be stabilized into a wall alongside the bin; the bin is a bin cage turned on it's side for Coco to chill in or whatever rabbits might do.

At my sister's house, she was pretty lethargic as well. She likes to sit in corners and eat her veggies. Like I mentioned, I've given her a few toys made of wood and hay for her to destroy and such so that's a bit of active and she has been digging. I've just never really seen her explore much -- I babysat her one weekend and she spent much of the time on the top of the couch away from the other bunnies. I am hoping she'll notice there is no one here to bother her so I can see her personality.


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Ahh... a spare door could be handy for creating an area for her. I have hopes that she will come around as she adjusts to having some time when she's not being pursued by a male. I bet she would like an upside down box with a couple doorways cut out. It would give her something to explore that is still 'secure' feeling for her.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Okay so the rabbit has been having the time of her life here apparently. She loves playing with just about any toy I give her and seems to be enjoying herself my sister says. However, I'm getting mixed signals from her :/ she beat the crap out of me yesterday so I did some research and found they hate being approached from the front. I've been trying to approach from the side slowly while talking to her but she just kicks at me. We've gone through a lot of food playing this game. 
So I was thinking she didn't really like me but she loves to come out when I get home. She'll be in her cage and ill come in and sit down to do homework and she's up and ready to run. She climbs really close to me but thumps if I try to pet her. 


Also, a side question: she has been pissing BESIDE the litter box and not in her cage either. Any way to stop this? My room smells like a toilet despite my best efforts lol. I vacuum use baking soda and have ferret cleaning products and numerous cage air fresheners. 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Okay. Another question. This is the first day she's been so ballsy. She is walking around my room without a care, dogs and all. She saw them ran then turned around and was like "nope I actually don't care" and went about her day happy as could be. For a scaredy rabbit she seems to be unafraid of these terriers...( don't worry if I didn't have complete control and trust over my dogs I wouldn't allow it)


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Since I posted this she has gone a bit crazy. I cleaned up the room and out out hay and veggies for her and she's just been running around all over. And to think I was worried she wasn't coming out of her cage . I'm laying on my side and she keeps climbing up on me and staring me eye to eye. What does this mean and what is the appropriate response? 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

She's begun cuddling and investigating the rats. I don't really understand her behavior but in very happy. My sister is going to call for prices but if it is too much she wants to rehome her which is a **** shame. 


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Let's see... Is the litterbox out in your room (not in cage)? And was it already soiled when you first put it there? It's not necessarily the box itself that she'll associate with the place to go, but the scent. So it could be that she isn't realizing that it is her box (if it's new or if it's too clean for a new place), or, it could be that she knows it's where to go but she may be accidentally hanging her bum over the edge when she sits in there, or, if it did already have her scent, then it could also be that it is _too_ used. Some rabbits don't want to go in a too-messy box. Check out the size of my box and how I set it up here. (Use white vinegar for cleaning up urine smells on carpet.)

Yes, it's true that rabbits can't see well directly in front of them. It sounds like you are doing fine with offering food as a treat to warm her up to you. I wouldn't rush trying to touch or handle her yet unless she's willing. She sounds like she's making great gains in that she is approaching you and attempting to communicate with you. I think you'd really benefit from learning bunny body language. They definitely do communicate in this manner. This site is a great one to get started. After you read that, you'll get a good basis for learning how to 'read' her. From there you can begin to figure out what she is attempting to communicate with you when she is going eye to eye. Otherwise without being there to observe, it sounds like she actually may have either been just saying hello (nose to nose is a hello) or requesting some petting (head down can be a request for grooming).

Her being confident like that around dogs and the way she behaved with you, just tells me that she is likely one of those rabbits loaded with personality and attitude. The running around like crazy may be binkies. If so, then she is just oh so happy to have freedom. (You can see some sample binkies on my site to see if that's what it looks like.) 

(Have you been able to figure out a way to make use of that door?


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## Eden10 (Aug 11, 2012)

I took on a 'back room rabbit' a couple months ago from the pet store I work at...he came with a bad reputation [he constantly attacked the other rabbits & killed a guinea-pig] tho he seemed to bond with me & is calm/sweet in his cage, when I let him out he acts pretty wild & will thump at you if you go near him [especially to my fiance lol!] & when its time to go back to his cage he is a bucking bronco when you pick him up! 

So I am in a similar situation as you trying to bond with my bunny! Its understandable that they are distrusting animals being as they are prey animals & coming from a stressful environment, but I'm sure in time they learn you mean them no harm.

As far as litter box training, I had the same issue where he would pee by the side of the litter box or he would keep changing his mind which corner he wanted to use! Right now I have 2 different style boxes for him & SO FAR he hasn't had any mis-haps...he has a triangular corner pan & a larger square corner pan.
My bun does need to be neutered tho, which I'm sure will help A LOT with the peeing! & possibly help when hes outside the cage.

Good luck with your bunny & hope things work out


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

nanashi7 said:


> She's begun cuddling and investigating the rats. I don't really understand her behavior but in very happy. My sister is going to call for prices but if it is too much she wants to rehome her which is a **** shame.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Your sister is calling about neutering the boy, Lucy, correct? So if she can't neuter him, then she is thinking of re-homing Coco, the girl you are watching temporarily? I was just trying to get it straight, lol. If she can't neuter the boy, then she'll keep him and re-home the girl?


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

Divit said:


> Your sister is calling about neutering the boy, Lucy, correct? So if she can't neuter him, then she is thinking of re-homing Coco, the girl you are watching temporarily? I was just trying to get it straight, lol. If she can't neuter the boy, then she'll keep him and re-home the girl?


She's had the boy longer, they got coco as a third attempt to get him a companion but they didn't bond well


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

We thought Lucy was a girl until a particularly hot day revealed his equipment; my sister doesn't like the idea of Lucifer haha. She is going to keep Lucy no matter what which is sort of my fault since I bought him as a "present" for her kid's birthday (with her permission and guarantee she was going to care for him).

The litter box is a square litter box outside the cage (but near it). It's a high back one that she does enjoy sitting in and jumping in. I put a grass mat that smelled of urine in there to motivate her to go there, and covered that with litter which she promptly kicked out. I just didn't fathom how much they pee; I get puddles! Other than the litter box, she has her cage and the overturned bin cage that has bedding in it from travelling from her house to live with me. None interest her. I'm starting to worry about my bed which is directly on the floor and something she enjoys laying in.
So far, I can't brace the door up without her trying to clear it or knock it over. I learned she is ery good at vertical jumping, as she cleared about three foot to hang out on a bookshelf. 

I'm just not very good with most prey animals so it is hard. The first "prey" animal I've got to like me is rats; cats, birds, hamsters, guinea pigs (and bunnies)...all hate me. I'm sure it's in my approach but it gets frustrating and hard because I'm such a "dog" person.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm reading up on the litter box and behavior now.
I put the litter box over where she was peeing and cleaned up the urine; should this help? I really don't mind stray poo sincemy birds love to fling seed and make me vacuum twice daily but urine is just awful.

As for behavior;
She seemed to demand I groom her a lot last night. I didn't really know what to do so I was just trying to scratch where she seemed to enjoy? But as I don't speak rabbit who knows. I was doing the bridge of her nose since she kept nudging me there, behind her ears and her cheeks.
I don't understand the whole flopping thing. It could mean she's happy and trusts me, or it means she is insulting me? She kept coming right beside me and laying down with her hind quarters thrown to the side and stretched out. She would end these with the "foot flick", which I thought was her binking. But then I was reading; could I have been insulting her by not really paying attention to her when she kept coming up to me? I didn't know they were so needy haha I thought she was investigating me but I guess having my back turned to her and not really trying to pet her might've upset her?
I really just don't understand the intricate ear signals :/


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## Timberlee Fields (Aug 2, 2013)

Hydrogen peroxide will help with the smell and cleaning carpet btw. (; 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Timberlee Fields said:


> Hydrogen peroxide will help with the smell and cleaning carpet btw. (;
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thanks; I think I'm just going to mix Hydrogen Peroxide, vinegar and baking soda in one mass attempt to clean. I have a sensitive nose so it really is bugging me haha.


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Moving the litter box to where she is peeing is the right thing to do and should help. Topping the litter with hay also helps since they like to go while they graze. The standard among bunny owners for cleaning rabbit urine is vinegar. A rabbit's urine is highly alkaline (opposite of most pets which are acidic). I've honestly never heard of using hydrogen peroxide for rabbit urine. It may very well work, I've just not tried that before. 

Don't mix vinegar and baking soda, lol! That is how you make a 'volcano'. (Remember those little science experiments for kids to create a volcano? You take a cup of vinegar and dump in some baking soda and it'll bubble up and over the cup just like a volcano.)

Flopping nearby you is a sign of contentment. Foot flicks can be irritation at 'whatever' but are usually temporary -- just a sign of their mood at that particular moment. A most beloved owner can still receive the foot flicks on occasion. However, refusing to offer her requested grooming is insulting indeed (in her eyes). They are complex little creatures.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Alright. So, I've just been gushing about how fantastic Cocoa has been. I got her entirely litter trained, she's stopped kicking the crap out of me, and she is very affectionate when she cares to be. I finally skipped over my sister and went to her fiance who loved Cocoa the most. They've agreed to neuter him so long as it doesn't cost close to the $150 I payed for my rat.


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Sounds great! What a lucky little rabbit.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

She's ignoring the litter box again so I'm hoping that's just means it is too dirty for her(never had a litter trained animal). However, her white feet have become white again, previously they were yellowish brown from the humane society keeping her in filth. 
She's been doing odd behavior so I don't think I understood te guide right. She comes over and digs at me which I thought was a request to groom. However she darts off it I move towards her. She's also been coming up and nudging me but again darts off when I move. Finally she has been flopping atop me for no discernible reason. If I move she runs away. Am I Cocoa's submissive somehow?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Okay. So do rabbits normally "pack" their poo in? I had no idea she pooped this much until I cleaned the litter box!!
And will she still poo in it? I took old hay out and put care fresh on the bottom, a paper she peed on, some poo pellets, and then hay in the box. 


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Yes, rabbits poo a lot! I've heard they can produce 250 poos per day. This is one reason that stray poos are to be expected. Sounds like you did right with putting the urine-smelling paper in the litter. Topped with hay is just fine. 

It definitely sounds like she is trying to communicate with you and maybe isn't quite sure how to do so. Typically the digging at clothes is an attempt to get to your skin for proper grooming. She's just still not completely at ease and sounds a little skittish. The flopping on you and approaching you is just wonderful though. It really hasn't been that long since you've had her, and as I said earlier, some rabbits can take months to warm up. She's already doing more than many rabbits would do in such a short time. It's just a matter of you two figuring each other out. A couple treats in hand might ease her into allowing you to groom her during those times. 

Yay for white feet!


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

She loves apples and yogies and carrots. However she won't take them from my hand only her bowl. 

Which brings me to my next question. I ran out of food and had to get some from the store. I hve no clue what she ate before, so I went with the top brand in rats...Oxbow Rabbit food. I mixed the last of the food with it and topped with hay and veggies, but will she have problems changing? And how much hay and veggies are healthy? I give her a handful of hay, a handful of cabbage (lettuce maybe?) and a carrot (long ones straight from garden). She also had half of an apple no seeds today. 


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Oxbow is a good brand but it is usually best to take several days to transition to a new pellet food. Let's hope she transitions ok. Oxbow Essentials for adults would be the right type. Good instinct you had to mix. It would have been ideal to have mixed it for several days. So just see if she takes the new stuff next feeding. 

The carrot is too much. She should not receive more than a 1" slice per day. Carrots are very high in sugar and are considered treats. If she gets a carrot slice one day, then she should receive no other treats that day - no apple or other fruit. If you decide to give her apple instead of carrot one day, then she should only have one slice. Half an apple is far too much. The bacterial balance in a rabbits stomach is quite delicate. Too much sugar can cause a bacterial flourish in her gut potentially leading to GI stasis. Here are some treat ideas on my site.

Anything yogurt is out for rabbits. They should not have anything with yogurt unless a vet recommends it during certain stomach issues. I know the stores sell them as healthy for rabbits but they are not. This article explains why. If you'd like to give her a treat for warming up to you, you can try other greens. A sprig of cilantro or mint may work. If she's not had those greens before, then they need to be introduced slowly. Only one new green should be introduced every few days. You'll be checking to see if her poo consistency changes. If it gets mushy, then back off of that particular green. 

Lettuce is fine if it is either romaine, red-leaf, green-leaf or any dark green lettuce. Cabbage is known to cause gas in some rabbits. 

Hay should be more than a handful. She should be eating her body size in hay every day. She should have 24/7 access to hay at all times. The hay should be the primary part (80% +) of her diet.


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## Timberlee Fields (Aug 2, 2013)

My boy loves raisins as treats. I give him about 7-8 a day but he's much larger than your girl. I'd give 3 or 4. 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Gosh I had no clue. Alright so less carrots minimal apple. I tried reading up on giving them fresh food but clearly I need more research. 

The bunny and I have been getting skin better I am guessing. It feels like living with a cat haha. Last night she wouldn't stop fussing with the cage and I assumed rabbits weren't up at night so I left the cage open...she ran laps around my room and seemed to have a blast despite total darkness. She periodically laid in bed with me which was strange -- two dogs and a bunny in bed? Lol. She and the dogs hve reached an understanding and they ignore each other for the most part (except for cuddles last night lol). I don't really know what to make of it. She also has been following me around the house instead of staying in the room. 
She's a lot different than she was with my sister. Do you think she'll just revert back once she goes back there? I'm afraid she won't do well going from this "home" back to her real one. 


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## Timberlee Fields (Aug 2, 2013)

Take a look at binkybunny.com they have a complete nutrition guide. 


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Timberlee Fields said:


> My boy loves raisins as treats. I give him about 7-8 a day but he's much larger than your girl. I'd give 3 or 4.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App





Timberlee Fields said:


> Take a look at binkybunny.com they have a complete nutrition guide.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Mine love their raisins too! They'll do anything for raisins (or banana). The bunnies have even trained my husband to give them their few raisins in the evening. The first video at this site shows my bunnies trying to get to raisins that were stuck to the bottom of the raisin container.

 Binky bunny is a great site.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bunbun has been doing great. Not sure when she's headed home but she loves it here. I got her some banana and strawberry treats she takes from my hand. She also somehow invited herself into the dog pack so comes when I say come and even got to play outside. It's to the point I have to cage her at night now because she comes in bed and demands pets and treats and playtime at 2am. 
Her litter box etiquette has been wanting but I am willing to excuse that since it is ten pellets out of three hundred. We've got a routine down and I really enjoy it. 
She loves chilling and jumping around. Today I even scratched the cue to "I want to pet you" and she laid down and let me. I remembered to tug at her fur a bit and now she is utterly splayed out. 

She got a few new toys today because man is she playful now she also had to get a new house because she ate and sat on the last one to oblivion. It was hard finding a big enough one so I hope it lasts a bit and she likes it. 

Not really getting bunnyship down but Cocoa tolerates me 


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Sounds great! Maybe she'll be able to have a permanent home with you (wink!).

The few stray poos are normal and to be expected. It is _VERY_ rare for a rabbit to be 100%.

It sounds like she is loving life.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

She is becoming quite the darling. She now insists on sleeping in bed with everyone, in a corner by my head. I didn't really know how to explain no its not allowed with her two "friends" laying in bed and am tired of fighting her every night over this. She comes up and "digs" a spot and lays down. She also was quite sweet this morning, running around me in circles until I pet her.

Unfortunately, the family is now telling me I am making the house stink and some of my critters have to go. I am hoping my sister will neuter her rabbit and take Cocoa back soon ((especially seeing as she is too sweet to be left in a shelter)), so they won't try to get rid of my animals. It's a bit ridiculous really because I'm 21 and pay rent and am moving out, and it is my uncle's house who has told everyone to respect me as an adult. I would love to take Cocoa with me when I move but because she isn't a caged pet it would be another $150 deposit and $15 a month, on top of my dog's fee.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

It's now become a huge affair. 

My sister for some reason thinks it is an entitlement she is deserving for me to not only care for "her" bunny for free, but to spend my own money on bedding, litter, hay, food, and everything else. Despite saying her house smells excessively because of rabbits, she is leading the campaign to deprive me of my rats because "I'm making the house stink". I am rarely ever home, and spend the majority of time I am home cleaning up after my animals and after other's animals -- I care not only for her rabbit, but for my mothers dog that is not potty trained. In two weeks, I've spent $100 of my money on other people's animals for no reason whatsoever other than I'm nice; each time this happens, it puts further financial burden on me when I am trying to coordinate moving out and those costs related.
She stated if I didn't keep her rabbit it can go live outside in the field behind our house. Winter is on our doorstep and she knows I won't let that happen. On the otherhand, I cannot allow my animals to be locked away in the storage room in the basement. My mother decided I was spending too much in heating the house so shut my heat off and the animals would surely freeze in the concrete basement. Neverminding the fact that the birds will die without sufficient sunlight. 

Sorry to rant but this seems so unreasonable. I now have to miss class for the third day in a row because of them (yesterday was because my mother decided she was too busy to get her dog from the groomers, which it only had to go to because she didn't give her the allergy meds necessary causing a massive breakout necessitating the use of the medicated bath and to be shaven down).


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## Timberlee Fields (Aug 2, 2013)

My bunny is 100% trained.... Other than the day he came home he has never him anywhere but his puppy pad. 

I would tell them to f**k off that you pay to live there you have a right to your animals. 


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

nanashi7 said:


> It's now become a huge affair.
> 
> My sister for some reason thinks it is an entitlement she is deserving for me to not only care for "her" bunny for free, but to spend my own money on bedding, litter, hay, food, and everything else. Despite saying her house smells excessively because of rabbits, she is leading the campaign to deprive me of my rats because "I'm making the house stink". I am rarely ever home, and spend the majority of time I am home cleaning up after my animals and after other's animals -- I care not only for her rabbit, but for my mothers dog that is not potty trained. In two weeks, I've spent $100 of my money on other people's animals for no reason whatsoever other than I'm nice; each time this happens, it puts further financial burden on me when I am trying to coordinate moving out and those costs related.
> She stated if I didn't keep her rabbit it can go live outside in the field behind our house. Winter is on our doorstep and she knows I won't let that happen. On the otherhand, I cannot allow my animals to be locked away in the storage room in the basement. My mother decided I was spending too much in heating the house so shut my heat off and the animals would surely freeze in the concrete basement. Neverminding the fact that the birds will die without sufficient sunlight.
> ...


People suck, animals are far more reasonable


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Well, if you are moving out soon, you can consider this. Most people assume and think that a rabbit is a "caged" animal. Technically, you do have a cage for her. So she could be considered caged. I have a cornsnake (among other pets) that does spend most of its time in its cage (terrarium), nevertheless, I do take him out and handle him. My (former) diamond doves also had a cage but spent time out of their cage. I would still consider them caged animals. I guess what I'm saying is that almost all "caged" animals spend a certain amount of time outside their cage (even rats). So I'd say that if the animal has a cage, it is a 'caged' pet.


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## Timberlee Fields (Aug 2, 2013)

When I had Harlow and Walker my mini Rex pair, we told the landlord they were caged. They roamed during the day and were caged at night. The landlord knocks, the bunnies get cage. 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

They don't count my birds or rats in my pet fee, so I will see what they'd say about a bunny. 

I'm still worried about being able to afford her. She needs her cage cleaned out and more bedding every 3 days, and the litter box dealt with every other day. I can only use paper-based bedding and this means about $20/week in bedding :/


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## Timberlee Fields (Aug 2, 2013)

Use puppy pads. I use 2 a day for Rodger and got a pack of 50 for $11. You can get away with one a day because she's presumably smaller than my bunny. Lol. Does she not have a litter box in the cage? If she does there is no need for bedding you can put her on fleece like the rats. 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

She doesn't have a litter box in the cage. it is a terribly tiny cage, which fits her, her hay, a toy, and her house and is then full. I also am terrible with fleece -- I switched to flooring for my rats instead. I didn't want to just leave her on nothing though, because she enjoys nesting.


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## Timberlee Fields (Aug 2, 2013)

Maybe put a puppy pad in her cage as well with more limited bedding. 50 pads using 2 a day will last almost a month. That's not bad for $11. 


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Even a cat bed can work in place of bedding. Fleece should be fine too. If she's litter trained, you can use either because she won't pee on it. 

For litter, I use the wood pellets. They run about $4-$7 for a 40lb bag. It lasts my 2 rabbits about 2 months.


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

Divit said:


> Even a cat bed can work in place of bedding. Fleece should be fine too. If she's litter trained, you can use either because she won't pee on it.
> 
> For litter, I use the wood pellets. They run about $4-$7 for a 40lb bag. It lasts my 2 rabbits about 2 months.


If I remember right she's allergic and that's why she has to use paper 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm crying a bit as I write this.
The bunny ceased litter training when I moved and wouldn't retrain and the smell got out of control. I was struggling to feed myself in my weekly budget due to needing fresh greens and hay and bedding and a hide house.

I tried asking my sister for help in costs and maintenance and when was she going to take care of Lucy. She turns out to have lied and "given" me the bunny. She told her landlord it's mine and is telling the family she's pregnant and can't take Coco back. One of my rats has an eye infection or cut and might need a vet trip. At the least needs the hospital cage in which Coco resides. 

Tonight I am dropping Coco and all her things off with my sister and hoping for the best. She knows Coco is coming and isn't happy. My dad is asking his farmer buddy to take her but I don't know what that means.

I love this bunny dearly but it was too much for me. She is a sweet heart and I hope her future is bright. She was a repeat customer at the shelter. If anyone in NW Ohio wants her I will gladly drive to you and give you her stuff. I can only hope my sister acts like an adult in the situation. I've done my best but failed, I couldn't keep this many animals with this little time. Thank you all for your help. 


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

That really makes me mad tht your sister I being that way,  I've been following this thread an had such hopes for coco  


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Yeah. Bunnies are just beyond my means with eleven rats four birds two dogs and moving. She was (is) a great bunbun and had even caught on to standing for treats like my dogs. I switched to litter but needed to change the cage and box every three days at least. The smell was getting too much for me. 
I would've kept her if my sister would've provided financial aid, and if my rats didn't need a hospital cage. I miss her tons already she was great but I just couldn't provide for her. I am hoping my sister will or will find someone who will. We live near rural areas so I know people have rabbit runs. 


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## Minigeko (Sep 18, 2013)

Wow, this is not the ending I was expecting. I just read all 7 pages. I'm sorry things turned out that way.

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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

She was a sweetie. Here's Cocoa:http://i.imgur.com/R0kN5Xq.jpg

I can at least take comfort in that I know she is a fantastic rabbit and her confidence level just soared in my care. She acted in a way she never had even at the shelter. When she finds a home, I just know she'll keep up her sassy 'tude. She began going around the house and just owning everything haha.


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## Timberlee Fields (Aug 2, 2013)

I wish I lived closer. 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Yeah. I'm sure she'll find a nice home. She's cute, fluffy, cuddly, litter trained, picks up on tricks, and is spayed. She's only a year old and my sister posted an ad including all the toys, hay, food, and treats I bought her (and a cage :/)


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## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

I'm glad you helped Coco out of her shell. If it weren't for your willingness to take her in, who would have ever known her hidden personality. 

If the ad doesn't result, maybe a rabbit rescue (dedicated rabbit, not just generic shelter) would take her in. If you could explain how she changed while in your care, that would be a huge plus. This rabbit rescue is down in Columbus, OH, but they may know if there are any closer to you.
http://www.ohiohouserabbitrescue.org/

If your sister finds a taker, hopefully she will explain that the cage should only be used temporarily until a larger one can be made/purchased. (Feel free to direct them to my site).

I'm glad you had the opportunity to bring some happiness and contentment into Coco's life. She sounds like she has the ideal temperament for a free-range house rabbit-- she just never knew it.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

We have a rabbit sanctuary in the area that I told my sister about. I don't know her plans with Cocoa. 


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