# Finally Brought Home My First Pair of Rats! :D And Some Concerns...



## Munchies (Nov 23, 2014)

Back in early December I adopted two rat pups that I was scheduled to pick up from the breeder on Christmas Eve. Unfortunately, due to illness and death of a family member, I had to fly out to a different country for a little over a month. The breeder was kind enough to board my rats during that time. So, I picked up my rats about a week ago - boy, they've grown! They're both female - one black dumbo named Burtney (named after my favorite backyard squirrel who, unfortunately, was run over by a car on Christmas Eve and died  ), and a white fancy named Nibbles (because that's what she does - a LOT!). They're almost 3 months old now. When they were about 2 months old, the breeder notified me that they had a mycoplasma pulmonis flare up and were given Baytril and Doxycycline for 2 weeks. A couple of days ago, I noticed red discharge from Nibbles' nose and some staining on her fur and front paws that was accompanied by sneezes so I started them both on Azithromycin. I'm just wondering, is it normal for pet rats to get flare ups this frequently? 

When I first brought them home I did notice a strong smell in their cage. When I went to clean their cage, I noticed that the blanket in their hut was soaked in urine that had dried up. I left the breeder two blankets (they were actually torn fleece from my old pj's but they were clean) so she could use one while the other was in the wash, but judging from that rock-hard, dried urine soaked cloth in their hut, I somehow doubt that it had been washed much. Since they've been home, I've been scooping their litter box every day, and cleaning their entire cage every other day (i.e., changing bedding, litter box, wiping/washing cage and accessories and replacing their hammocks and blankets with fresh ones.) They don't seem to pee in their hammocks so I'm not sure why the blanket in their hut while they were boarding was so heavy with urine. ??? I also wipe them down with a warm, damp cloth every few days. I do a sniff test everyday to check for smells as well. In terms of their diet, I give them Harlan 14% protein blocks, fresh vegetables and fruit, some Cheerios, Nori, Puffed rice, rice, or raw pasta for a snack. I also give them homemade biscuits that have supplements in them like omega 3 fatty acids, coq10, vitamin C & E, etc., in hopes of boosting their immune system. So, I don't know what I'm doing wrong and what's causing the flare up? Is this just how it is with pet rats? That they'll get flare ups frequently for the rest of their lives? Or are my rats just exceptionally weak? The breeder did say that my rats are small for their age. At about 3 months old, one is 190g, and the other is 180g - that's pretty normal, no? Any insights would be greatly appreciated!

Oh, and here are some photos of the girls.


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## Snowdazey14 (Oct 15, 2014)

aww your rats look adorable  But maybe your introducing too many new foods at once? Was there diet different at the breeders house?


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## Munchies (Nov 23, 2014)

Snowdazey14 said:


> aww your rats look adorable <img src="images/smilies/smiley.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smiley" smilieid="1" class="inlineimg"> But maybe your introducing too many new foods at once? Was there diet different at the breeders house?



I don't think so. She also fed them Harlan blocks, veggies and fruits, my homemade blocks, and Cheerios. She might have even fed them other things that I haven't fed my rats since they came home since I've heard her say that she feeds her rats chicken and bones, etc. I'm wondering, could it be the stress from moving?


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## Velo (Dec 30, 2014)

So you've had them home for a week, you noticed some sneezing and you put them on antibiotics?
Honestly, the bit of pory and some sneezing just sounds like "new home sneezes" AKA adjusting to the smells in your home. I also think that the urine soaked blanket did not help (ammonia build up is a major cause of myco flare-ups so it is possible that this caused a flare up). White and light colored rats will often develop some pory staining, even when they are healthy. It's moreso "fresh" pory around the eyes and nose that you should look for.
There's no need to wipe your rats down every few days either. They are incredibly clean animals and can take care of bathing on their own (usually, in old age and sickness they may need help).

How long have they been on the Zithro? How much are you giving them?

I give them Harlan 14% protein blocks, fresh vegetables and fruit, 
^ This is all they need in their daily diet
some Cheerios, Nori, Puffed rice, rice, or raw pasta for a snack
^ fine for treats and training
I also give them homemade biscuits that have supplements in them like omega 3 fatty acids, coq10, vitamin C & E, etc., in hopes of boosting their immune system
^ this just isn't needed, especially in combination with HT and fruits/veggies. 
For the record, Vitamin C is useless to give to rats. They, unlike us, produce all of the Vitamin C that they need themselves. We eat foods high in Vitamin C because we cannot produce it like they do.

Their weights seem okay to me. They are young and still growing. They should nearly double in size over the next 4 months or so. :3


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## Munchies (Nov 23, 2014)

Velo said:


> So you've had them home for a week, you noticed some sneezing and you put them on antibiotics?
> Honestly, the bit of pory and some sneezing just sounds like "new home sneezes" AKA adjusting to the smells in your home. I also think that the urine soaked blanket did not help (ammonia build up is a major cause of myco flare-ups so it is possible that this caused a flare up). White and light colored rats will often develop some pory staining, even when they are healthy. It's moreso "fresh" pory around the eyes and nose that you should look for.
> There's no need to wipe your rats down every few days either. They are incredibly clean animals and can take care of bathing on their own (usually, in old age and sickness they may need help).
> 
> How long have they been on the Zithro? How much are you giving them?



Every flare up causes damage to their lungs so why do nothing? And the red discharge was new. As for the Zithromax, they're taking about 2mg each. So, are these flare ups "suppose" to be frequent? Three months old and already two flare ups.


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## heckhund (Feb 16, 2015)

They may be having a flare up, but more likely they are just sneezing because they are in a new home with new smells.It is never a good idea to over use antibiotics. You have already started them so you might as well finish the round, but in the future wait until you are 100% certain that there is something wrong. I always like to wait a few days to see if a rat improves, gets worse, or stays the same so I can react accordingly.


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## Munchies (Nov 23, 2014)

heckhund said:


> They may be having a flare up, but more likely they are just sneezing because they are in a new home with new smells.It is never a good idea to over use antibiotics. You have already started them so you might as well finish the round, but in the future wait until you are 100% certain that there is something wrong. I always like to wait a few days to see if a rat improves, gets worse, or stays the same so I can react accordingly.


Wait even though fresh porphyrin's coming out of her nose? So then when should one react? What symptoms should one look for to be sure that it's a myco flare up?


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## Velo (Dec 30, 2014)

Pory alone is not a flare up. You can expect some pory, especially around their noses and especially when they first wake up.
You can also expect some general sneezing and "respiratory agitation", if you will, during the first week of a new home/environment.


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## Munchies (Nov 23, 2014)

So then what signs are definitely indicative of a myco flare up if sneezing and porphyrin coming out of her nose is not of any concern? Please let me know? This is all new to me. The only other rodents I've owned were guinea pigs and hamsters and they've never showed signs that look like illness but were considered normal and healthy so it really worried me to see this happening to my rat.


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## Munchies (Nov 23, 2014)

O.K, so I've been googling and several sources say that if porphyrin is coming out of both the nose _and_ eyes, then it's cause for concern. And of course, if those signs are accompanied by sneezing, sniffling, wheezing, loss of balance, lethargy, or loss of appetite, then it's most likely a myco flare up. *whew*! Aside from the red nose and sneezing, Nibbles also did some chirping, though that only lasted for about 10 seconds. It was enough to scare me half to death, though. Anyway, I think I'll let them finish their course of antibiotics. They do seem more active these days and I don't hear sneezes as often anymore. No more Rudolph nose either. So all is well *knock on wood*.


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## Velo (Dec 30, 2014)

Yup, that's the gist of it.
"Chirping" and some vocalizations can be just momentary and come from stress or excitement. But if it happens more than once, say multiple times a day for a few days, then you may be concerned.
Typically you look for a combo of 2 (or more) symptoms. Always assess environmental and stress factors too. Puffed fur and half-closed eyes are more symptoms you can add to your list to look out for.


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