# Kinda Worried About Little Boy



## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

In my mischief everyone has a very distinct personality. Naydeen is the shoulder rat, Pepe is the one always getting in trouble, Toffee is the shy food hog, and then there's Little Boy. He's basically it seems like, the group push over. He never gets a spot in the space pod, his brother and sisters will cram in there and then Little Boy will sleep right next to it. I think he tries to get in there sometimes, but no one appreciates it as it makes a very right fit. Everyone pushes him around, even the girls. He isn't in the least bit aggressive or possessive, he's just that little kid who tries to follow his siblings lead, and tries to go his own way sometimes and stick his neck out only to get put back in his place. During free range he's always looking for a cozy blanket to curl up in. He loves to snuggle with his siblings when he can. Just a minute ago I was giving him his medicine and he was taking it really slowly and was standing in a ready position like he was about to leap. His brother spotted us and ran over and Little Boy froze and then bolted off because he anticipated what was about to happen, his brother jumped him. Now while everyone else is out running around, Little Boy is back in the cage in the space pod (maybe he's trying to reserve a spot lol). I just feel like he's a got a very gentle and sensitive personality, so he gets pushed around by his siblings a lot. Sometimes he looks kind of sad. He doesn't like me holding him and he doesn't snuggle with me but he does like me petting his head. He's always been kind of fickle about getting attention from me, it's like **** come up to me and climb on me, but as soon as I notice him and pet him/pick him up he will walk away or act really confused like he didn't mean for that to happen. I worry he isn't happy, and I wish he had a little rat friend who was like him who just wanted to snuggle with him. He's really a sweet guy, he's just too gentle and sensitive for his siblings. Advice? 


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

I'm not sure why there are those asterisks, maybe it automatically changes swear words? I meant he'll but I forgot the apostrophe 


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

I also notice that he flinches a lot when I touch him or give him a kiss. He's not comfortable being handled either. Do you guys think it could be that he's constantly in hyper alert because he gets pushed around a lot? Or could like his previous owners have abused him or something? I know he and his brother didn't get much human contact from their previous owner due to allergies supposedly. 


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

How long have you had him? I've had paisley for a year and a half, and she was like that (flinching) for a couple of months after I adopted her after she was 6 months old. He should improve.

Hopefully one of them would bond with him... I recently noticed that when I had to travel and had two rats together in their travel cage, that they bonded a lot more . Has anyone tried that? Are there any that are nice to him?  poor little guy <3 


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## darkiss4428 (May 31, 2014)

oh i have a idea! you can bring him to visit my boys for a good grooming session! they are always grooming eachother and cuddleing


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

ksaxton said:


> I'm not sure why there are those asterisks, maybe it automatically changes swear words? I meant he'll but I forgot the apostrophe Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 when you first posted this thread I was trying to figure out what curse word fits in that sentence hahaha. Have you tried one on one play dates with him and another rat from the group. Maybe do a bonding trip like gannyaan wrote. Not trip trip, but maybe trip to the couch and give them a special treat to share and bond over.


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## darkiss4428 (May 31, 2014)

gotchea said:


> when you first posted this thread I was trying to figure out what curse word fits in that sentence hahaha. Have you tried one on one play dates with him and another rat from the group. Maybe do a bonding trip like gannyaan wrote. Not trip trip, but maybe trip to the couch and give them a special treat to share and bond over.


shis sounds like a good idea i second it


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

They originally were in pairs, first I had my girls, then I got the two boys. I know that when it was just the two boys living together, his brother was very dominant and would constantly hump and pin him, and he was always very submissive. Then, on the first day of introductions to the girls, Naydeen pinned him too. On their very first meeting Little Boy then cuddled with Naydeen but you could tell she wasn't into it lol. I don't remember how long I've had him, but they aren't new to each other or anything. I feel like they aren't doing anything wrong to him, like they aren't being mean to him, it's just normal rat behavior and play fighting. It seems like he's just that little kid who's really sensitive to everything and gets upset when people pick on him, even when playing


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

At night (when they're not excluding him from the space pod) they're sweet to him, but during free range they push him around, it's mainly Naydeen and Pepe, his other sister Toffee is also gentle and shy but she basically ignores him and would rather be with Naydeen. I'm worried that constantly being picked on is affecting his personality, he's gotten more jumpy lately and his body is really tense when I try to pick him up. I think he's getting more skittish and some days during free range now he will just hide in the cage to avoid someone going after him


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Ganyaan, you essentially did small space bonding in the travel cage. 

What are the other rat personalities? There are problems "fitting" occasionally. My first two didn't fit more than at night really. There are ways to bond him better to the group, but I would think it better to bond to someone who fits him. 


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

That's what I thought too, like his personality is really different so he can't find anyone to be his fiend. So there's Naydeen which you guys have heard a lot about, she's the true shoulder rat. Super outgoing, super friendly, high energy, always wanting to get involved in everything. Then there's Pepe, he's the one always getting into trouble when you turn your back. I'm always having to get him down from somewhere or pull him out of something. He's the one who bullies Little Boy the most. He likes hanging around Naydeen, they play wrestle a lot, the kind Little Boy doesn't like. Then Toffee, she's very shy and timid because she has bad vision, unless there's food involved in which case she seems to forget all that. She kind of likes to do her own thing, and she also likes to hang out with Naydeen. You would think she would be nice to Little Boy, and though she doesn't bully him, she flat out ignores him. It seems like they all like hanging out with Naydeen and basically forget little Boy's existence or push him around when they do remember he exists


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Hm your best bet is to put Toffee and Little Boy together for a week in their own smaller cage and see if they start bonding. If so, that bond should hopefully hold when he is bak in the cage (at which time I advise a second space pod). I've used this method. Unfortunately, if that doesn't work I might actually say think about finding him a friend that fits him. I think it should work because the way I'm thinking is you had a bonded pair of girls and a loose knit pair of boys. When they met, they meshed but the bond stayed cemented and the loose knit sorta loosened more. 

My most energetic rats wear the shy ones thin, they ignore or bully them when they're not cuddling. To fall back on, I have a few sweeties who're willing to share cuddles in a different hammock. They're usually just the older independent Ratties. 


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

I can split the big cage in half and put just Toffee and Little Boy in it, but would that upset Naydeen? She and Toffee almost always cuddle together. One time I took Naydeen and Pepe with me overnight so it was just Toffee and Little Boy together, and the moment I came home the next day Toffee split away from him and forgot all about him 


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

I was sort of wondering, do you think it would work if I got a baby boy rat and had him and Little Boy share a separate cage at night, so that LB can sort of raise him and have someone to be the leader of? Or do you think Toffee will take to him with time? 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Well, you actually want the space to be pretty small (we've a sticky on the intro method by Isamurat) so they bond. If they had a huge cage, they could've spent that day completely apart. Even at just a day in a small cage, they don't have time to really do much than rub shoulders. 

More than Toffee and Naydeen gettin upset, I'm worried about a rat that's essentially isolated. He can get neurotic which you want to prevent. 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

ksaxton said:


> I was sort of wondering, do you think it would work if I got a baby boy rat and had him and Little Boy share a separate cage at night, so that LB can sort of raise him and have someone to be the leader of? Or do you think Toffee will take to him with time?
> 
> 
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To be neutered or as a solo boy? I'm assuming the former. I don't think Little Boy needs to be the leader of anyone, just needs someone who is similar to him. But it definitely helps if LB meets him first and is the friend during his introductions (so, while he's recovering from his neuter?)


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

I have a cat carrier, I can keep them in that at night. What I'm worried about is they will snuggle with him at night, and I know if I put him and Toffee together they will snuggle, but I feel like for Toffee it will be more of just a common practice/thing every rat does, but for LB it will be because he wants someone to love him. I feel like he isn't loved by any of his siblings. He never plays with them, they all play together but he's usually off by himself looking for a nice place to sit and relax. He acts like he has anxiety these days, and it seems like it's getting worse. He jumps and flinches every time I gently touch him and I feel so bad for him 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

For small space intros, they're gonna be in the smaller cage or carrier all day every day and they don't participate in the family free range. 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?t=193945


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

Oh okay, I'll give it a try with Toffee. Should I do a week? 


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

nanashi7 said:


> To be neutered or as a solo boy? I'm assuming the former. I don't think Little Boy needs to be the leader of anyone, just needs someone who is similar to him. But it definitely helps if LB meets him first and is the friend during his introductions (so, while he's recovering from his neuter?)
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Oh, would he need to be neutered in order to be introduced to a younger male? 


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

Okay I have moved Toffee and Little Boy into a separate cat carrier. So far they're miserable lol, Toffee actually starter chewing at the holes in the carrier (and she's not a chewer normally) so I hope she doesn't chew the hole open and escape. Nanashi were you saying Little Boy would need to be neutered to be introduced to a new young male, or were you saying the young male would? 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

No, I was asking the role of the new boy on a whole. I didn't want him to be a part time lone rat. 

It's not ever going to be fun at first - every single one of my rats, sick or well, that gets cut from the pack into the spare cage for whatever reason is miserable at first. 


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

Oh no, if I got a new boy I would let him and Little Boy be introduced and bond first, and then introduce him to the rest of the group and they could all live together. I'll give Toffee and him a week in the carrier, and if things don't improve I'll look into getting a baby male


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

So do The two in the carrier not get to come out at all? Do I just leave them in the carrier 24/7 for a week and not let them be with the rest of the family?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

For the first 24hrs they're cage bound. You can let them out after but id do it away from the cage with ony them. 


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

Okay will do. And if after a full week, when I put them back with the group, if nothing changes for Little Boy, is it time to look into getting a young male? 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

A young squish in the making, I would. Caius is very laid back and Remus is very energetic. He ran her ragged. Now that there are playmates they cuddle when he's done and he goes off and plays when he wants. 


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

Okay I'll see how it goes with Toffee, and if not I'll probably see about getting a young male. How would I be able to make sure I get one with the right personality? What if the new kid grows up and joins the others and Little Boy is left alone again?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Well, my boy Milo was a squish from the start. He often was just lounging for most of play time and almost exclusively lounging in the cage. A breeder or rescue should be able to match the personality to your needs, Milo was headed to be a big bottom boyo from three weeks old. 


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

The only breeders in my area are BYB's and there's a rescue but they're far away and I think they usually only have adults. There is, a feeder bin, and while i know that's not a preferred source they do have young rats....which would you think is best? 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

A feeder bin or byb both wiuld need quarantined. Neither would be able to get a good forecast on personality - I got a neglected rat from a hoarder, picked the lazy skittish one after two hours of observation and she is now hyper and friendly and fearless and did I mention hyper since fitting in. 


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

Hm, I don't know where I would find him a friend at then. Of all the BYB's there is one who isn't horrible, she's pretty knowledgeable and her rats are all well socialized. She also doesn't breed to excess as far as I know of. She also takes in a lot of rescues, maybe I could talk to her and see if she has anyone who would fit Little Boy's personality. That breeder or the feeder bins are my only source of young male rats. I'll just see how it goes with Toffee first.


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

They've started chewing like mad at the holes in the carrier, I'm worried they're going to destroy it trying to get out


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