# Rat bit my daughter...



## Hikari (Feb 5, 2013)

I don't know what to do, one of my rats just bit my daughter really bad. She reached into the cage to pet Momma thinking she was Sweetie Belle and Momma bit her really bad on the hand between her thumb and first finger. 

Momma was a rescue that was used for breeding the first year and a half of her life and never got a whole lot of attention besides what was needed to breed her. She is cage aggressive I guess the term would be, she nips and bites when she is in the cage. If she is out of the cage she is much sweeter, but still not a very loving rat. She will come to me and sit on my lap if I am still, but if she is under a blanket and I reach under she will bite me just as quick. I hate to leave her in the cage, but she is a liability to have around people the way she bites. She bit me the other day because she was under my laptop and I reached down to pet her. She didn't get me as bad as she got my daughter. 

I have tried taking her out alone and trying to bond with her, and she gets very stressed out. She is a very nervous rat in general. 

I don't know what to do, I can't have a rat that attacks my daughter, but I also don't want for anything bad to happen to her.


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## Timberlee Fields (Aug 2, 2013)

Put a small lock on her cage door(s) so nobody has access unless you are there. 


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## Hikari (Feb 5, 2013)

I am not sure how to go about putting locks on a DCN, but my daughters rats are in the same cage. That would be pretty much not allowing her to get her two out. Out of our 6 rats she is the only one that is a problem, so it wouldn't be fair to separate the cage and put her out of the same section as my daughters rats. Momma really depends on the other rats for security. She really depends on her daughter which happens to be one of my daughters rats.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Does stress include any bad behaviors? If not, I'd use immersion on her whether or not she is super stressed by it. Take the daughter rat that provides comfort with her and lock you guys in a small space. Once you've got her socialized you can work on her cage aggression and then that should translate to your daughter as well.


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## Hikari (Feb 5, 2013)

She hides in a corner and shakes and if I try to go near her she lunges. She will do that for hours, its like she just glares at me waiting for me to make a move. I will be trying again and be taking Sweetie Belle in there with us, maybe that will help her. Thanks for the idea!  

During the day I will more often than not have all the rats out on the couch/living room with me. When she is one with all the rats she seems like a different rat, she plays and runs around. She will even come lay on my lap, but any moves towards her, like petting her and she turns all teeth. I know she wants attention like the other rats because she will come up and nibble on my elbow to get my attention, but then she acts like she wants to bite my hand once I try to pet her. 

I knew when I got her she was going to be more difficult than the others, but I never expected after so many months of hours of attention everyday that she would still be like this. I know she had a crappy life and I really want to give her a better rest of her life, but with her biting everyone no one in my house but me even likes her anymore. =/


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm dealing with a rat that acts much the same. The advice I got was pad up and get ready for a fight


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## watts300 (Aug 3, 2013)

I'm relatively new around here, but I could probably tell you (based on another current thread about another member's aggro-rat) that if Rat Daddy were to read about your troubles, he would tell you to engage in immersion training with as much body armor as you feel necessary to stay safe. 

In the same thread, the owner reported much success in a 4 day time frame. There's obviously some truth in immersion training.


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## Hikari (Feb 5, 2013)

I just pulled her out of the cage and she was running around on me, in my shirt, just acting like my other rats. I sat down on the couch with her and tried to pet her and she lounged at me.....I don't get what trips her off....

I did read through Rat Daddy's post on here about immersion training when I got my first rat back in February, but I never really used it. All of my other rats were just happy friendly loving ratties. I am going to be reading through it again and really trying it with her to see if it will improve her outlook on everything.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

How're you approaching her? Like my rat, her eyes may be awful so always try to put your hand in front of her so she can sniff it then go around the side. Coming from above is predatory behavior.


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## Hikari (Feb 5, 2013)

I always talk to her before I pick her up and I will only pick her up from the side, if I give her my hand to sniff she will bite. She knows who is getting her, and I always coax her out of her hiding spot first with a treat because if I stick my hand is her box or hammock is she gonna bite. I guess I have just kind of avoided situations where I know she will bite, but with her biting my daughter something needs to change.


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## watts300 (Aug 3, 2013)

To help with your outlook and expectations, I offer this to consider:

Rats are not mean by nature. Something caused her to be that way, which means you CAN help her get turned around. You will do it. 


Many people would say to be patient. I would obviously agree and also say to be patient in the scale of a few weeks of regular attention. It took me two weeks to get my two boys to be okay with each other... and that's just rat-and-rat. Rat-and-human would likely take longer. (My speculation.)




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## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

If immersion training doesn't work, unfortunately you may have to turn her over to someone who A) Doesn't have young children in their family and B) has a lot of experience dealing with problem rats. It is very unfortunate that she had a rough start in life, but a biting rat has no place as a pet, especially where children are concerned. I hope for both the sake of you and your family, and for the poor rattie, that she'll be able to learn that biting is not necessary and that she'll get lots of love and attention if she doesn't bite. A few years ago, I took in some rescue rats and one of them in particular was viscious. And I don't mean like a casual biter, I mean he used to actively try to attack my hands once the cage door was open. I spent 7 months trying to turn him around and I just couldn't do it. After getting bitten hard enough to draw blood a few times, I was so afraid to even open the cage that neither he or his cagemates got a lot of attention because I knew I would get bitten if I tried. I even tried putting hot sauce on my hands so that when he bit me, he'd taste the hot sauce and he'd learn biting wasn't a pleasant experience. It had no effect on him at all. I wish I had known about immersion training back then, but I didn't. I eventually turned him and his cagemates back over to the rescue I got them from, I felt terrible about it but I knew I tried my best and that there may be someone out there more capable than I am of changing his attitude around and giving him the life he deserved. Do everything in your power to avoid that scenario of course, but I honestly believe that are some rats that just need special attention from owners that are very experienced with that sort of thing.


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## Hikari (Feb 5, 2013)

I am really hoping the immersion training will help her, with her being not far off from two years old I hate to have to try to find her a rescue. I honestly think the stress of taking her away from the other rats would kill her. It seems like she has gotten worse not better over the last week or two, I am not sure if it is because everyone started school and so the rats didn't get as much attention as they are used or really what it could be. All the other rats got extra cuddly and clingy, but she really isn't like the others. Now that we are all getting into a routines I will be able to get the rats out more again, so hopefully that will help her as well. 

I have her out with me now by herself and she is diving down my shirt and running around on me. She actually wanted out this morning which is unusual for her to want to come out of the cage when all the other rats are already sleeping. At first I thought she was Sweetie Belle because she was sitting in the front corner of the cage looking at me like she wanted out, it wasn't until I got closer I realized it was her. I think she can sense that she messed up yesterday, because she has been uncharistically friendly today. Normally I couldn't have her out by herself without her being a nervous wreck. 

Cinder- I am sorry about your rescue boys. I know that must have been so hard. It is hard to have an animal that you can't trust. Its sad to think what they must have gone through to become so aggressive. As Watts said rats are not mean by nature. 

Oh and for anyone that wondered why we have such a hard time telling Momma and Sweetie Belle apart here is a picture of them side by side.


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## Hikari (Feb 5, 2013)

*UPDATE* 

Momma Belle is doing much better since we started immersion! She actually was laying across my chest last night bruxing and boggling!! That is a first!! She laid on me for about two hours letting me pet her and just enjoying every minute of it!  We still have a long way to go before I would say she is social, but I see an improvement for sure! She still is nipping, but not the mean I'm gonna take your finger off it more like an attention seeking behavior. She even went up to my daughter during free range time I sat on her for a few minutes, another first! 

I still cannot stick my fingers near her if she is in her hammock, but I hope that with continued working with her she will eventually get over that as well. 

Even my fiance, who really wanted her gone is now seeing an improvement, and is no longer pushing the issue of getting rid of her. My daughter is no longer afraid of her, but is respectful of her space. My daughter hand also is healing up very good.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Does she have visual problems? She may just be needing warned before you are touching her, especially if she is snoozing in a hammock.


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## Hikari (Feb 5, 2013)

I think her vision is fine, and I let them all know when I am coming. I talk to them before I stick my hand in the cage. The only ones I don't give fair warning to is Fluttershy because she enjoys sleepy tummy rubs. 

She was a lot more cage aggressive, she wouldn't even let my hand in the cage without trying to bite me.

I really think with her it was just past experiences that made her aggressive and antisocial. She had a check up at the vet last month and the vet said she was very healthy, but I am not sure if vision problems would be checked in a normal check up.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Oh, alright. Another member on here gloved their hand and pinned their cage aggressive rat like you sometimes have to do. They repeated this over and over, until it stopped.


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## Hikari (Feb 5, 2013)

I was thinking about doing that, but I tried immersion training first. I think with her if I used a glove and pinned her down it would do more harm than good. She is a very nervous rat and gets scared very easily.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I felt much the same with my rat. I ended up taking a lot of bites, starting with resting my hand in her cage, moving things in her cage, having treats in my hand, and making her get pets before treats.


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## evander (Jun 30, 2013)

So glad immersion is helping!!!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Immersion seems strange at first, but it's theory is based on Fuzzy Rats efforts to reach out and communicate with me and show me that rats and humans can communicate bidirectionally. if some folks think I sound strange, imagine how freaked out I was when I realized a RAT was trying to 'talk' to me and rewarding my correct responses with kissies.

The actual technique was taught me by the wild rat pack that lives in the shrubs around Turtle Back Zoo in West Orange NJ, when they tried to immerse my 5 year old daughter. I suppose she smelled like Fuzzy Rat. Honestly if I hadn't known Fuzzy Rat and understood about rat communication, I never would have let my daughter play with a large pack of wild rats. (Yes, I know there are moms out there that aren't going to nominate me for father of the year for letting my kid play with wild rats.) But the technique of constant playful engagement was their idea not mine, and no rats or kids were harmed and we learned something rather new about our rattie friends. They really don't differentiate between human and rat friends.

So while it never surprises me to see how well immersion works, it always gratifies me to see the teachings of the truly amazing Fuzzy Rat and that gentle pack of wild children bring another mixed pack of humans and rats together.

I was very privileged to know Fuzzy Rat up close and personal and to live with her and lucky to meet the Zoo pack. It's kind of an honor to share what I learned with other folks and their rats and above all it's a pleasure to see how happy immersed rats and their owners make each other. 

As to rat vision, blind rats never walk across rooms they don't know, they follow walls using their whiskers like a blind person would use a cane. Rats with normal eye sight can cross a room but outdoors will freak out in open spaces. They will also react to fast movement from a distance of over 3 feet as they can't clearly make out what it is. Rats with exceptional eyesight can be very relaxed indoors and outdoors as they can see what's going on. They walk through the middle of rooms rather than follow walls and don't react to your hand moving quickly at a distance. They know it's you. Vets don't check for eyesight in rats. If you give it some thought there are plenty of tests you can devise.

Fuzzy Rat had remarkable eyesight and could identify human friends from long distances and find her way back to the car or house from over a quarter mile away visually. Fuzzy Rat had a human friend that would always try to sneak up on us, she liked him and his girlfriend a lot. As soon as she saw or smelled him she would start pounding her feet on my shoulders and he never came within 50 feet without being spotted by Fuzzy Rat, and not for want of trying. Having great eyesight made her a most competent true shoulder rat.









Fuzzy Rat is the tiny white speck next to the black trash can heading back to the car that is in the parking lot down the trail past the playground on the left, across the bridge in the right and about a 30 yards down the parking lot. Stopping to casually snap a photo when your rat is a couple hundred feet away from you outdoors and walking away, is what owning a true shoulder rat was like.


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