# Rat Pricing/Expenses



## YourSoJelly (Apr 22, 2013)

Hello! I am trying to gauge the prices of two rats. To get my mom on the rat boat, I will need to have a monetary plan, have the money, and have a daily care schedule. If you guys would be as awesome as I know you are, could you please tell me about how much their food, treats, bowls, toys, bedding cage, bottles, and anything else you buy them or if males and females costs differ. I know they eat veggies, and so do guinea pigs(I have 3). I'm not sure if their veggies are different so if you could nudger me in the direction of good veggie/fruit list, it would be much appreciated! Thanks everybody!


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## Laura (Apr 13, 2013)

Let me start off with I don't have my boys yet, but will late May, early June... As far as a food list check out this link, but from what I hear, ignore the Suebee's mix. I was able to order Harlan Teklan blocks for a little under $2 a pound as a staple diet.... Not sure how much they eat though. The going price in my area for a same sex pair from breeders is about $30. Chew proof water bottles are $8 each. I'm going to make my own bedding (fleece liners) so not sure what that will cost me yet, I'm estimating $50 for a couple of sets. Igloos run about $8... The wheel will vary, but for a good one, you are looking at $45+shipping. Litter Pans anywhere from 8-15 depending on size and brand. I'm going with ceramic food dishes, so probably $7 for those.


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## Rumy91989 (Dec 31, 2012)

For 2-3 rats you can get a 33 lb bag of HT lab blocks for $33 plus shipping which will last you a good part of a year. In IN you can get a pair of rats for $10 or a pair from a breeder (preferably) for $20. I'm on my phone so I'm not totally sure what else you asked about but the first response looked pretty in-depth.


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

I'll try my best to convert this into USD as I'm British, but bear with me haha.
First there's the cost of the two rats - $20
Then there's the cage - anything between $100 to $200 depending upon where you get it from
Then there's toys and accessories - anywhere between $40 to $100 depending if you make them or buy them brand new
Also food - $40
Then you MUST take vet bills into consideration; rats get more sick than you think. There's also the possibility of surgeries to deal with and pay for, plus most exotic vet consultations are quite expensive, both here in the UK and the US. For example, I have spent around $450 on my rats and most of that was from ONE rat who had two surgeries and a spay. Don't underestimate this, this is where having rats can hit you hard. If you're young (and from what I can tell you are) you need to take this into consideration for your mother's sake.

So in total, the estimated cost is anything between $300 to $800 USD depending upon the costs you have to endure, and believe me vet bills are a huge possibility considering how easily rats get URI's and need check ups. All the money goes on consultations and prescriptions. Sorry if how I've put it sounds hefty but you have to understand this is really how it can be to own rats. I hope you can afford it.


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## Emy (Apr 18, 2013)

Hello! Here's some info based on my experience 
Not including the cost/adoption fee/etc of the two rats, I spent about $25 every two or 3 weeks on Carefresh bedding (which is the only way to really go..), I'd buy a bag of rat food (about $8) once every month and then each week would purchase fresh produce (strawberries, broccoli, carrots, etc) which was about 5 or 6 bucks a week, also add in the time to clean their cage! Which needs to be done lots and lots because they can make a stinky mess, haha, toys/treats about $8 every few weeks, a nice big cage can cost you anywhere from $50-$200 (the bigger the better! they need lots of levels and fun things to do) and then here it comes...

vet bills.

I just lost my two ratties and combined total of vet bills including emergency visits, euthanasia, URI check ups, medication, etc... probably 700 dollars PER RAT over the span of 3 years.


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

Emy said:


> Hello! Here's some info based on my experience
> Not including the cost/adoption fee/etc of the two rats, I spent about $25 every two or 3 weeks on Carefresh bedding (which is the only way to really go..), I'd buy a bag of rat food (about $8) once every month and then each week would purchase fresh produce (strawberries, broccoli, carrots, etc) which was about 5 or 6 bucks a week, also add in the time to clean their cage! Which needs to be done lots and lots because they can make a stinky mess, haha, toys/treats about $8 every few weeks, a nice big cage can cost you anywhere from $50-$200 (the bigger the better! they need lots of levels and fun things to do) and then here it comes...
> 
> vet bills.
> ...


Actually I'd say you could do a lot better than spending about $25 USD on bedding every month... considering that's about £16 UK money. I bought a 15kg bale of 100% refined shredded cardboard that breeders recommend in the UK as bedding for four rats and it cost me £22, and that was with some soft tissue for their actual sleeping areas and 15ltrs of 100% paper litter... so around $34. You're getting ripped off there! You should look into shredded cardboard to buy in bulk and store, you save masses of money. In fact, judging by your expenditure you'd save hundreds of dollars! I'll try and find a US alternative but I used one from the UK called finaCARD.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

For the most part, the rats are cheap... I paid $2.99 for my last pup. The cage is the big ticket item, but there are used cages and even large surplus or leaky aquariums out there. This is not to mention that if you are handy a tremendous cage can be constructed out of surplus or otherwise cheap building materials. 


The water bottle should be of the best quality that you can afford, it can run upwards of $5.00.

Food, bedding etc are disposable items, but should run under $10.00 per week and likely less. 

Overall rats can be done very well on a low budget. Somewhere on an old thread there is a believable story of a homeless woman that kept her rats with her while living under a bridge... no cage and they shared her food and foraged for their own and that had a happy ending. And there was another story about a woman that kept her rats free range in her house with no cage and only fed them table scraps. (not recommended) So rats have actually been done no budget rather than low budget.

But, Ratclaws has a very valid point, rats can and do get sick. A single vet visit can run upwards of $100.00. And medications are expensive. Our vet told us that our rat is too old and her tumors are too big to be safely removed... that cost us $80.00 but another vet offered to try a surgery that most likely wouldn't succeed if we wanted to give it a try for around $800.00 to $1200.00. Rats are a lot like buying a $1.00 car without car or health insurance. It might only take a few hundred dollars to fix it up and make it run well, but when you broadside a Mercedes and break a few bones, things start to get expensive.

When you talk to your parents make sure they are on board. You should explain that you will handle the ordinary costs of having rats and how you will do it. But you should explain that there could be some extraordinary expenses the might come up that you are most likely going to need their help with. It's like buying insurance if your parents are willing to back you up. Otherwise having rats or any other pets without the money to go to a vet or buy medicine is like driving without insurance.... It all goes just fine until you crash.


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

What's your budget like? You first need to figure out how much you'll have available each month. 

Many things a rat needs are basic staples that are already purchased and in the home. Fruits and veggies are generally something that people keep anyway. You can give them the tops off strawberries or the rines from melons. Even the skins form apples or other fruits you peel are good. No oranges though. The you've got cereals. Many people keep cherrios or rice krispys on hand. Oatmeal and rice is also good for them. No need to buy anything special there, if you're on a tight budget. Kale and spinach and be bought in bulk and frozen. You can buy packages of other frozen veggies too. Mix all the fruits and veggies into a salad for your rats. The extra can be frozen for later. 

Bedding can be shredded paper if the budget is really tight. Not the best way to go, but if money runs short. It will work in an emergency. Bedding can be purchased in bulk. Just don't get cedar or pine. Try to get a "low dust" bedding. In some cases you can even use liners you make your self. 

Cage accessories can be made from old clothing you've outgrown or old towels. Even old blankets work. Food bowls are cheap, but you can get other types of bowls from the dollar store that are even cheaper. They'll work just as well.

Really can't skimp on water bottles. Spend a little extra on a good water bottle. If you do, it should only be a one time purchase. 

Even cages can be purchased inexpensively. Craigslist is a great place to find a cage on a budget. It might take a month or so to find a cage that you're happy with, but it can be done. I recently saw a Double Critter Nation on craigslist, with accessories, for 100 dollars. Be patient and you can get almost any cage you want.
Just don't "settle" for what you see the first time. On craigslist, it's a given that a better one will be there eventually. 

Don't skimp on your rats "main diet". You'll have to buy in bulk to get the best prices. Check around and decide what type of food you want to give them. Then purchase it in bulk. The initial cost will be more, but you'll save money in the long run.

To start out...... and depending on where you shop....

You're looking at between 100 and 200 dollars to get started. 

Then you're looking at 15 to 25 dollars a month to maintain your rats. Then you have to put money aside for vets. You can determine what amount you'd like to put away. 

Just get the cage, food, bowls, cage accessories, etc...... Then get the rats. If you get these items a little at a time. The cost won't seem as much.

The cost of the rats depends on where you get them from. Ranges form "free" to 20 dollars. 

There's no "rush" to get a new pet. Get the things you need for your pet "first" and then take your time picking out your new pet. That way, it will be a more pleasant experience for all concerned.


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

To basically summarise the cost of rats, you have a bigger cost at the beginning which can be minimised when you choose to buy your cage (brand new = expensive, second hand = a lot cheaper)and the accessories you need to set them up. Then, as you're looking at your average monthly costs they are very cheap to look after. You just have to make sure you have that emergency vet fund which should run into a couple hundred dollars just in case. Don't assume that "Oh my rats will never get sick, that only happens to other people." Assume that they WILL to be on the safe side. The expense comes from vets, in my opinion, overcharging based on the categorisation of rats as exotic animals and so they are classed as specialist. It really is something when a pet as small as a rat costs as much as dogs or cats in vet bills. You should be thinking of your rats in terms of looking after tiny dogs, not hamsters or gerbils etc. So really to own rats you need to be good at saving money, or just just have money saved, and I know that being young = little money. It's a completely different ball game to keeping hamsters, but so worth it if you have the time, patience and capital to own them.


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## YourSoJelly (Apr 22, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your enormous help! I do know that rats need vet care, and I do have a fund set up, strictly for vet care. The small animal vet usually costs about $80 for a check up and meds(if needed). Guinea pigs and rats seem to eat similar things, and have similar illnesses. I do always assume that the animals ail get sick, so I try to build up the vet account as fast as possible in the first months of ownership. My mom has also promised to help with vet funds if needed(for the guinea pigs. I still haven't mentioned rats yet! )

As for bedding, I will be using fleece liners, because that is what my guinea pigs have and I know that rats typically do fine with that. I also have a large amount of time on my hands. Over summer, i will be unusually busy earning extra money for the rats and guinea pigs but other than that, I can play with the rats and guinea pigs everyday except for the weekends. Weekends I am usually not home. I have 3 water bottles at home(apparently my guinea pig, Pumpkin, has no clue how to use them… ) If my math was correct, I should have about $650 by the end of the summer alone.

Once again, thank you all for your speedy replies and thorough answers.


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

Sounds all good then, glad to see someone acting so responsibly and planning out their future ownership! I hope you manage to get the money sorted as you'll love having rats, they're the best small animal you can own in my opinion


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## WaveRat (Dec 25, 2012)

So much great advice here... Two things I thought to toss in:

If you decide to get a wheel for them, perhaps try a cheaper (but still safe) wheel to see if they'll even bother with it. My girls completely ignore theirs. 

And YES YES YES on having extra money set aside for vet bills. You never know when you might have an emergency, God forbid. I try to put a little aside just for emergencies every paycheck.

Well done on planning ahead so well! Good luck! :]


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

To add to what WaveRat said, if you're going to get a wheel it's recommended you get either a Silent Spinner or a Wobust Wodent Wheel. These two are the safest options. Apparently if rats are introduced to a wheel from a young age they are a lot more likely to use them, especially babies! Try to get your first pair from a breeder as these will be better for you to learn how to look after rats compared to pet store rats.


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## YourSoJelly (Apr 22, 2013)

Oh, i forgot to add that. I absolutely, positively, *REFUSE* to buy from a pet store. I will try adopting first, or getting them off craigslist. I also try to set aside money from my paycheck for the vet fund.  Thank you all again for your helpful information.


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

I wouldn't say pet store rats are to be completely frowned upon, the odd time they do turn out to be great (3 of my 4 are pet store rats and 2 of them are brilliant). Just with pet store rats it's really about if you get lucky with one with a great personality with people and how you go about socialising them. With breeder rats, you're almost guaranteed to get relaxed, chilled out rats who love humans. Definitely go for the breeder option and be aware that craigslist isn't necessarily a good source; someone could be trying to pass their rats off as well behaved on there when in fact they're ridding themselves of them because they have terrible temperaments and haven't been socialised very well. Just try to get breeder rats that you know have been hand reared if possible, it makes everything a whole lot easier. If this isn't a possibility, then either try a pet store and make sure you can hold them first to see if they're a chilled out personality. If they are you could be lucky. The other option is to try craigslist and make sure you visit the rats and ask to handle them for a good half hour to make sure they're fully tame before accepting them. Don't feel pressured to have them just cause you're there, you reserve every right to not have them if they're not well trained and socialised. Make sure your Mum is with you if you do this.


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## YourSoJelly (Apr 22, 2013)

Thank you. I refuse to buy from pet stores because of how the animals are often kept and that they are bred tom mass breeding places. I would try a rescue first. Personality or temperament will not phase me because everything deserves a second chance. It took my aunts dog 3 years to be relatively less anxious and my guinea pig, Sarabi, is going to take a VERY long time to turn to be social. Guinea pigs prefer the company of other guineas before people, but there are few acceptions. Patience is of a never-ending supply with me with animals. 

Would anyone be able to tell me of mass or females would be a better option, and does one gender cost more than the other?


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

I can understand why you wouldn't want to buy from a pet store, but some pretty AWESOME rats have come from pet shops. So, if you see happen to see one at a "pet shop" and you absolutely fall in love with it..... Don't let the fact where it's living at the moment keep you from taking it home. 

That being said,
Getting them for a rescue is the best place to get one. A "reputable" breeder is the second best place to get one. 

As to gender, check them both out. Don't decide on what one you want. Leave that open to finding the right rat. Sometimes you see a rat and the two of you are the perfect fit for each other. 

When I got my first rat, I had a choice between 2 little rats. Both were cute, but one peed on me...... I took the one that "didn't pee on me. For my second rat, I was at a pet shop. I was looking at the feeder rats and there was a really cute one in there. I put my hand in the cage and she crawled onto my hand. I never put her back in the cage. I took her to the cashier and she came home with me. My girls and I were a perfect fit and we connected/bonded very well. 

My male, I picked out from a litter. I wanted a male and rex sounded good too. I like the Dumbo aspect as well. I picked him out, when he was 2 weeks old. He came to live with us at 4 weeks of age. I really didn't have the same "connection" I had with the females. We've since bonded and he's wonderful. It just would have been nice to have that connection/bond form the start. 

So, if it were me...... I would choose the rat/s that seem to connect with me.


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## YourSoJelly (Apr 22, 2013)

Thank you very much! I will be looking for a connection with my rats. I know that some pet store rats can be sweet, but I am not comfortable with buying from a pet store. Any who, are there different price ranges between bucks and does? I know that with guinea pigs, males tend to be slightly more expensive.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Just to weight in, all my rats were rescued from the feeder bin at a pet shop as fuzzy pups. That included my part wild that was brought in as part of an accidental litter, and includes my opossum blazed, striped, American high white, most likely ditched by a disreputable breeder when the litter went south, and the amazing Fuzzy Rat, our true shoulder rat. 

I have no disagreement with anyone that won't buy from pet shops. And I agree that many of the rats offered at the big box chain stores are already way too screwed up for new rat owners to handle... but if anyone has read my threads on immersion training or shoulder rat training and benefited from them in any way, they owe a debt directly to a snake bin feeder rat. Without the tireless efforts on the part of Fuzzy Rat to get through to me there would be no immersion guide and no shoulder rat threads here or anywhere on the internet! 

You can hate the rat industry, and the snake food breeders and the pet shops all you want, and shop where you feel most comfortable and support who you like... And rats raised by reputable breeders are easier to socialize and reputable breeders deserve support... But if you are in any way implying that my girls aren't as good as any other's out there... I'd strongly beg to differ. And Fuzzy Rat has hundreds of friends and acquaintances that would agree with me. So say what you want about the industry, but lay off of the loving, warm and intelligent rats that don't come with fine pedigrees or from good homes, they are every bit as deserving of love as any other rat. 

Immersion has literally saved the lives of certain rats and has changed the lives of the humans and rats that have done it. And shoulder rat training promises to have a similar impact on a smaller but otherwise special rat population... Without Fuzzy Rat there would be no immersion and no shoulder rat training... I'm pretty sure she didn't deserve to be snake food. 

I'm not looking to pick a fight, but the age of discrimination against rats based on where they were born should be long behind us. Rats are individuals and deserve to be respected and treated according to their abilities and personalities.


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## Rumy91989 (Dec 31, 2012)

Rat Daddy said:


> You can hate the rat industry, and the snake food breeders and the pet shops all you want, and shop where you feel most comfortable and support who you like... And rats raised by reputable breeders are easier to socialize and reputable breeders deserve support... But if you are in any way implying that my girls aren't as good as any other's out there... I'd strongly beg to differ. And Fuzzy Rat has hundreds of friends and acquaintances that would agree with me. So say what you want about the industry, but lay off of the loving, warm and intelligent rats that don't come with fine pedigrees or from good homes, they are every bit as deserving of love as any other rat.
> 
> Immersion has literally saved the lives of certain rats and has changed the lives of the humans and rats that have done it. And shoulder rat training promises to have a similar impact on a smaller but otherwise special rat population... Without Fuzzy Rat there would be no immersion and no shoulder rat training... I'm pretty sure she didn't deserve to be snake food.
> 
> I'm not looking to pick a fight, but the age of discrimination against rats based on where they were born should be long behind us. Rats are individuals and deserve to be respected and treated according to their abilities and personalities.


Well said! I agree totally--the rodent industry is not a beautiful thing, and if you can find a reputable breeder to support or refuse to support an unethical chain, kudos to you! However, all of my rats were either feeder bred or bred to and purchased from a petshop and they are absolutely lovely and incredible creatures. While I'd like to get my next rats from a breeder because I'd like to stop contributing to irresponsible and unethical breeding practices that happen all over, I don't think rats from breeders would be *better* rats, they would just come from a better situation.


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## YourSoJelly (Apr 22, 2013)

Rat Daddy said:


> Just to weight in, all my rats were rescued from the feeder bin at a pet shop as fuzzy pups. That included my part wild that was brought in as part of an accidental litter, and includes my opossum blazed, striped, American high white, most likely ditched by a disreputable breeder when the litter went south, and the amazing Fuzzy Rat, our true shoulder rat.
> 
> I have no disagreement with anyone that won't buy from pet shops. And I agree that many of the rats offered at the big box chain stores are already way too screwed up for new rat owners to handle... but if anyone has read my threads on immersion training or shoulder rat training and benefited from them in any way, they owe a debt directly to a snake bin feeder rat. Without the tireless efforts on the part of Fuzzy Rat to get through to me there would be no immersion guide and no shoulder rat threads here or anywhere on the internet!
> 
> ...


OH NO! I am not dishing the rats in ANY WAY! I am dishing the pet stores that mass breed when there any many homeless rats out there inneed ofloving homes. If i may ask, what IS Immersion Training, and Shoulder Training ?


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

YourSoJelly said:


> OH NO! I am not dishing the rats in ANY WAY! I am dishing the pet stores that mass breed when there any many homeless rats out there inneed ofloving homes. If i may ask, what IS Immersion Training, and Shoulder Training ?


The "Pet Stores" aren't mass producing rats. It's the "suppliers" that are doing it and shipping them to the stores. Many Pet Stores do the best they can to properly take care of the animals they receive. They have no control of how the animals are treated prior to them arriving at their store.

So, basically, it's the supplier that's the problem. As long as there's a demand, they will supply. 

If I had to guess. I'd say 75% or more of the pet rats today, are mass produced. Reputable breeders only make up, at best, about 25%. 

So, no matter where you get your rat..... Unless you get it from a reputable breeder..... You could have a 75% chance of getting one that came from a "mass produced" situation. 

Even a rescue or craigslist animal "could" have originally come from a place where they're mass produced. 

So, if you want to avoid getting a rat that came from a mass produced situation..... Your best choice would be to buy from a reputable breeder.

Of course..... Then you have the problem of someone that purposely bred their rats to supply new potential owners....... 

When there's many homeless rats out there in need of loving homes.

There's no right or wrong answer as to where you get your pet rat. There's pros and cons regardless of what you do. 

Get one from a place where you feel most comfortable with.


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

YourSoJelly said:


> Thank you. I refuse to buy from pet stores because of how the animals are often kept and that they are bred tom mass breeding places. I would try a rescue first. Personality or temperament will not phase me because everything deserves a second chance. It took my aunts dog 3 years to be relatively less anxious and my guinea pig, Sarabi, is going to take a VERY long time to turn to be social. Guinea pigs prefer the company of other guineas before people, but there are few acceptions. Patience is of a never-ending supply with me with animals.
> 
> Would anyone be able to tell me of mass or females would be a better option, and does one gender cost more than the other?


Actually with rats, temperament and personality is very important to begin with. It'll have a massive effect on how easy it is to socialise your rats believe me. Take this from someone who's owned 5 rats each with their own personalities and it DOES make a difference. But yes, on the whole if you choose from a breeder or rescue that's going to be better.


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## YourSoJelly (Apr 22, 2013)

Thank you everyone. I was not trying to cause an argument, but tis not the point of WHERE the rats came from. To me, there is a different between buying the rat from a pet store versus rescuing a rat, already bought from a pet store.


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

Here's the thread on Immersion Training that Rat Daddy wrote http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?67442-Immersion-Training-The-Guide


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

There is a very fine line between supporting reputable breeders and recommending well socialized healthy breeder rats to new rat owners, something I've done, and creating a dynamic where people might actually avoid rescuing perfectly wonderful rat pups from snake food bins. As Fuzzy Rat was actually actively trying to get picked up in her bin and calling attention to herself, the very next hand that might have reached into that bin, perhaps minutes after we left the store would have dropped her into a cardboard carton, twenty minutes later she would have met a terrifying end... and there would be no immersion training and no shoulder rat threads here. 

And yet some folks might say she was not rescued. How was she not rescued? She was in clear and present danger, and she was saved, I think that is the very definition of "rescue".

Beyond that this discussion becomes political... and usually hypocritical. Just about every person here who rails against the inhumane rat industry goes to their pet shop to buy their cages and their water bottles, and their rat food and their rat treats and their litter from the shop that sells feeder rats or mistreats their "pet" rats. So perhaps they would vote with their dollars and not give $2.49 to save a helpless little rat pup from a feeder bin, but they would turn around and buy a $150.00 cage, food, supplies and even expensive and unnecessary toys they could make better at home from there. 

Most of the new young people who come here start out by apologizing for buying a pet shop rat or rescuing a feeder. Why is that? Why do they have to apologize? Each and every one of them has opened her heart and her home and adopted an innocent rat that hasn't hurt anybody. That's a wonderful thing isn't it? And then look at the advise they get....

Go to the big box chain store and buy their highest mark up food....
Go to the pet shop and buy their most expensive cage...
Go to the pet shop and buy their most expensive bedding...
Go to the pet shop and buy treats, toys etc...

Yes, they should feel guilty for buying the $2.49 feeder rat from a pet shop, but no they shouldn't feel guilty about dropping a couple of hundred dollars a year there on supplies there. 

I bring Fuzzy Rat to my local big box chain pet shop and I've spent time educating their staff. Their staff now admits they don't spend enough time with their rats. Something they didn't even know they were doing wrong before and discounts rats that have been there longer to move them before they get anti-social. And they have moved rats to eye level and recommend them to more customers and they do try and reach in and play with the rats a little to try and keep them more human friendly. Certainly these aren't big changes and it's only in one pet shop, but Fuzzy Rat, one single true shoulder rat, has done a lot more in it's short life to improve the lot of rats than all of the rat snobs that buy the expensive cages from that shop and gripe about the way the rats are treated there. The stores see the disconnect! And they don't care about how you feel their rats are being treated, you still buy their high markup items and you don't buy their rats anyway. So what's their motivation to change? To be entirely honest, the big box chain shops would rather not sell live animals anyway. They only do it to sell more dry goods.

If you buy your premium healthy foods from cagedbirdsinging or someone else, and make your own cages and toys and litter as well as buy your rats from responsible breeders, you have my respect. But if you are supporting the industry with your big dollars and killing innocent rats to withhold pocket change from the same industry that lives on the reptile trade anyway... what are you really doing??? C'mon think about it!

Everybody that adopts a rat has opened up his or her heart to an intelligent and emotional animal in need of a good home. If they are here they are one of us. They shouldn't need to apologize and their rats aren't second class citizens. 

Its correct to say that rats from reputable breeders are sometimes healthier and usually better socialized. And I believe that we should all support rat rescues. I'm looking forward to working with a rat rescue to train a shoulder rat that would help them introduce new people to the wonderful rat ownership experience. And that should also make a difference to rescued rats. So sure it's great to recommend breeders and rescues, but it shouldn't be done at the cost of the dignity and self respect of people that obtain their rats anywhere else or by condemning any innocent rats to a horrific death.

Anyone that adopts a rat and gives it a loving home is a hero in my book... someone who supports ethical breeding or a rescue has done a very fine thing, but the two are not mutually exclusive and people that get their rats from pet shops shouldn't have to apologize before asking a question here.

I tell the story of where Fuzzy Rat came from to everyone we meet. Most people don't realize rats are being fed to snakes and mistreated and after holding Fuzzy Rat it breaks their heart and it change their minds... And those changed hearts and minds are going to eventually change the industry.

I realize I'm beating this point to death, but it's important for rats and ourselves that our community remains strong, vital and cohesive. All rat owners need to feel welcome and important amongst us. We can't risk dividing ourselves based on politics that rats can't understand anyway. Most rat owners have purchased pet shop or feeder rats and what kind of a fancy would we be if the majority of out membership is walking around feeling guilty for having done a wonderful thing? I'd love to see this debate go away forever and people stop apologizing for their rats. We all need to be proud of our beloved rats and ourselves for giving them a great home. Then together we just might be able to change the world if only just a little.


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## Rumy91989 (Dec 31, 2012)

YourSoJelly said:


> Thank you everyone. I was not trying to cause an argument, but tis not the point of WHERE the rats came from. To me, there is a different between buying the rat from a pet store versus rescuing a rat, already bought from a pet store.


OH! I just now saw your question about males vs females. I'd encourage you to check out some recent threads on here that ask that question specifically. It really depends on what you want from a rattie. I have females and I greatly prefer them to males because I love how active, curious, and mischievous they are. My boys, before they were adopted, were super cuddly and loving but not very active and I worried about them a lot because I'm used to my pets being very energetic, so I always stick with females. Even my female mice are more active than my males so I've found myself with a slight preference for them (but I still ADORE my little buddies!). So it's really all about what you want in your pet.


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## pwoink (Feb 19, 2013)

YourSoJelly said:


> Hello! I am trying to gauge the prices of two rats. To get my mom on the rat boat, I will need to have a monetary plan, have the money, and have a daily care schedule.


Looks like you've got the price range all planned out, so how did it go? Did you manage to get your mom on board? I hope it worked!

What's your daily care schedule like?


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## trematode (Sep 8, 2012)

If someone states that they do not like supporting pet stores, can we leave it at that?

You are going to come across good and bad rats in the classifieds, at pet stores and at shelters.

You have to know what you are looking for. If you buy an unsocialized rat from a backyard breeder, it is no different from buying an unsocialized rat from a pet store. A rat from a good pet store that is handled appropriately is going to be just as good as a rat from an "Oops" litter that has been handraised.

Reputable breeders are always the way to go. If you don't feel comfortable supporting a pet shop and don't have a reputable breeder or rescue near you, all you have to do is hit up the classifieds and ask plenty of questions. If something sketches you out about the person, you don't have to get the rats from them.

If you are wary or unsupportive of pet stores and their policies, you shouldnt feel pressured to get your rat from a pet store. Nobody should be suggesting that you give up what you believe in, unless your statements are grossly misrepresented (which they aren't... there are just some exceptions out there).

All of my fuzzies I found online. Due to personal experiences, I feel the same way about pet stores. If someone is adamant on buying from a store, I will try to steer them towards the ones with the better reputation and tell them why to look for if they are first time owners.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I think it's fine if people don't like supporting pet shops and the entire cruel industry... and better socialized rats can be usually found elsewhere. I'll gladly agree to that.. but there are way too many snob sites on line that will actually chastise new rat owners for buying their rats from the wrong place. And we all have to strive to nip that in the bud here. It's just too easy to take a very fine and special thing like supporting reputable breeders and volunteer rescues and turn it into something awful like encouraging people to actively avoid friendly and healthy rats that come from the wrong place... or worse yet dumping on fellow rat owners for having lower moral standards.

Rats are all about love, and cuddles and hugs and bonding, shouldn't we be likewise?


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## YourSoJelly (Apr 22, 2013)

Rat Daddy said:


> And yet some folks might say she was not rescued. How was she not rescued? She was in clear and present danger, and she was saved, I think that is the very definition of "rescue".
> 
> Beyond that this discussion becomes political... and usually hypocritical. Just about every person here who rails against the inhumane rat industry goes to their pet shop to buy their cages and their water bottles, and their rat food and their rat treats and their litter from the shop that sells feeder rats or mistreats their "pet" rats. So perhaps they would vote with their dollars and not give $2.49 to save a helpless little rat pup from a feeder bin, but they would turn around and buy a $150.00 cage, food, supplies and even expensive and unnecessary toys they could make better at home from there.
> 
> We all need to be proud of our beloved rats and ourselves for giving them a great home. Then together we just might be able to change the world if only just a little.


I just want to clarify that I do not buy dry items from pet stores, and I was always raised to not buy from pet stores. I have a rough experience with pet store pets when I was young, so I have always just strayed away from pet stores. I never thought about getting a rat from pet stores in the perspective that you have. I really like your perspective!  Thank you for clarifying for me!



Rumy91989 said:


> OH! I just now saw your question about males vs females. I'd encourage you to check out some recent threads on here that ask that question specifically. It really depends on what you want from a rattie. I have females and I greatly prefer them to males because I love how active, curious, and mischievous they are. My boys, before they were adopted, were super cuddly and loving but not very active and I worried about them a lot because I'm used to my pets being very energetic, so I always stick with females. Even my female mice are more active than my males so I've found myself with a slight preference for them (but I still ADORE my little buddies!). So it's really all about what you want in your pet.


I have 3 female guinea pigs, and it would be nice to have a cuddly animal!  I think I may head in the male direction, but it depends on what rat i get a connection with. 



pwoink said:


> Looks like you've got the price range all planned out, so how did it go? Did you manage to get your mom on board? I hope it worked!
> 
> What's your daily care schedule like?


I have to wait until November or December because that is the perfect strategic strike! My birthday is In November and Christmas in in December… PERFECT TIMING!  Mom has no clue that I want rats, that i am planning gym summer money to go towards the rats, or that i even joined this forum!  My care schedule would entitle how much time each critter would get, and the rotation for lap/floor time. The guinea pigs would probably get 45 minutes each for lap time, and 2 hours for floor time. The rats would get 2 hours of lap time and 45min-1hour of lap time because they seem to like lap times more. However, I can make it different spending on each animals needs.


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## Jackie (Jan 31, 2013)

http://www.petfooddirect.com/search/harlan-teklad
This IS the cheapest place to get harlan. Less than $1 per pound. It is more than 2 rats can eat in a year if you get two because it'll last 1 year in the freezer or 6 months out of a freezer so I just defrost in small bags when I run out a current baggie. What I did is share my giant 40lb bag with a friend. So basically if you keep 20 pounds for yourself that's about $12 for a year's worth of food (not counting fresh stuff).
Note: you have to find one of the free shipping coupons though to have it only be $24

If I wasn't a poor college student I would make a homemade blend from one of the various great recipes I hear about, but HT is still a great brand and doesn't break the bank.


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## Jackie (Jan 31, 2013)

to add to that the code FREESHIP50 will work still (I tested it)! That's what I used! if you end up buying any from pet food direct you just have to calculate the shipping with your zip and then put in the coupon.


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