# african soft furred rats...



## ratlover4everrr (Jan 31, 2008)

well on my hunt looking for breeded rats here in minnesota i have come across a litter of african soft furred rats. the people who have them say they are like jumbo mice or mini rats. i saw pictures and they look really cute =] i am really considering getting them instead of petstore rats because the petstore ones are always sick =/ but before i think about getting them i wanted to know, have any of you ever had these rats or heard about them? i am really curious.

here is the link to the see them and the ones i am interested in:
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/pet/727867390.html


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## Indigo_Paradox (Jul 10, 2008)

Are those the same as Natal rats?

-Rozaylia


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

Here's someone who may also be getting some  

http://www.ratforum.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=10816.html


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## Indigo_Paradox (Jul 10, 2008)

okay so it is the same kind of thing. I had seen that other thread and was wondering. Now I'm intrigued...

They are so cute! I might try to find some for myself. I wonder if they have the same sweet personalities the Norway Rats do...

-Rozaylia


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

Forensic said many aren't as tame as Norway rats and may never become tame. They do look very cute and fluffy though!


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## ratlover4everrr (Jan 31, 2008)

some research i just did say that they are social as long as you handle them a lot and give them lots of attention.


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## Indigo_Paradox (Jul 10, 2008)

Good to know...

-Rozaylia


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## ratlover4everrr (Jan 31, 2008)

so i believe they are exactly like regular rats just a lil different looking.


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## Randi (May 25, 2008)

I would be cautious about these little guys, only because many of them, no matter how much you work with them, NEVER become tame. You'd have to be prepared for the possibility that they will be aggressive, and stay aggressive.


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## ratlover4everrr (Jan 31, 2008)

thanks. i will keep that in mind. but the litter that i was looking at the person who is giving them away says they are all very friendly and nice so i dont know.


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## Randi (May 25, 2008)

I guess she got lucky! Anyway, best of luck with whatever you decide to do.


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## Indigo_Paradox (Jul 10, 2008)

Yeah... I'm not so excited about getting something with the possibility of being aggressive. I've got a lot of my plate with all my ratties anyhoo.

-rozaylia


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

I've just been having a bit read about them and most I've read have mentioned possible aggression, I suppose might not always be the case though


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## ratlover4everrr (Jan 31, 2008)

yeah i hope i get lucky! even if i do choose to get them it will be about a month so i will post pics and give an update if i do!


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## myboys2 (Jul 7, 2008)

They really are very cute! I'm curious if rats would accept them as fellow rats or treat them as mice?


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## Kathleen (Jul 1, 2008)

I've heard a lot about ASF's. The two most notable points are a pro and con respectively: they have virtually no smell _but_ they are commonly known to be aggressive and wicked biters (although as long as you get one/some that are socialized, you should be good?). They're also _very_ prolific breeders.

I would also never house them with "regular" rats...


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

myboys2 said:


> They really are very cute! I'm curious if rats would accept them as fellow rats or treat them as mice?


absolutely do not put anything else in the cage with your rats

Rats are extremely territorial & are hardly accepting of their own kind being added to their hokes without specific & trying introductions... drop a alien in their midst & they will destroy the intruder & quite possibly be injured in the process


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

as for this person who says their ASFs are tame... did your parents ever teach you about not believing anything you hear & only about a 1/4 of what you see? She might be just telling you this in order to make the sell or if no money is being exchanged... just to get rid of the nippy little frakers

Those things are vicious. I know several people who fell for the cute factor... heck I nearly did. They simply can't be handled. One person I know went to the extent of trying to breed a few generations so that they could handle them & hopefully tame them down........ each gen was equally aggressive. 

Some animals are simply meant to remain in the wild & serve the purpose that nature intended regardless as to how cute we find them. 

If those who have posted about their interest to get them go forward with it... good luck with it... maybe you will get lucky


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## sublimegirl232 (Jul 12, 2008)

They are too adorable! Are they rare?


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## Randi (May 25, 2008)

I've seen them around here sold in mom 'n' pop stores... well, I only saw them once... but they apparantly didn't sell so well and were quickly discontinued. :/ I would say that they're a lot less common than the rats WE have.


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## zombiedork (Jul 7, 2008)

Aweh. Those are so cute looking


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## lil-lith (May 26, 2007)

I'm thinking about breeding these guys, and they're excellent for that purpose, but as pets - definitely not. Apparently there are lines with a more gentle disposition towards humans, but on the whole I would discourage anyone from purchasing them as pets. Although they are awfully cute.


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## Indigo_Paradox (Jul 10, 2008)

I'm just curious... why would you breed them if they weren't going to be good pets?

-Rozaylia


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## Kathleen (Jul 1, 2008)

I'm not saying this is what Lil-lith is breeding them for, but a lot of snake keepers breed them because even the most reluctant feeders seem to take ASF's (because they are more native prey) and they provide a constant supply of babies. It's probably not a fact a lot of people here want to hear but it's a big reason they're becoming more mainstream.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

Kathleen said:


> <snip>a lot of snake keepers breed them because even the most reluctant feeders seem to take ASF's (because they are more native prey) and they provide a constant supply of babies. It's probably not a fact a lot of people here want to hear but it's one reason they're becoming more mainstream.


BINGO

& no, they aren't rare... vendors tend to discontinue them pretty quickly because of there irritable dispositions... several places I saw them at no longer keep them because they were tired of being bitten... they will order them but you have to show up on the specified delivery day to get them because they don't plan to take them from their travel containers. The places I know about switched to the pre-paid orders to ensure the buyer comes to get them so that they don't have to deal with them.

Again, they are cute but never give into impulse purchases when it concerns a live animal


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## Indigo_Paradox (Jul 10, 2008)

That makes sense about the snakes. How smart to give the snakes something closer to their native prey!

-Rozaylia


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## lil-lith (May 26, 2007)

Indigo_Paradox said:


> I'm just curious... why would you breed them if they weren't going to be good pets?
> 
> -Rozaylia


For food, of course. (I plan to own ferrets in the near future.) Since I don't want to support rodent farming, breeding them myself is really my only option. I was going to breed rats, but they require more space than I have available.


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## Kathleen (Jul 1, 2008)

You're going to feed ASF's to your ferrets? Out of curiosity, why...?


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## lil-lith (May 26, 2007)

Because they need to eat? I don't think I understand your question. :?


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## Kathleen (Jul 1, 2008)

There's tons of commercial ferret diets out there that should meet their nutritional needs.  I've just never actually heard of anyone feeding rodents to theirs. Would you feed live or F/T?

Sorry about all the questions. I'm not necessarily trying to criticize. I just find this very intriguing.


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

I would suggest against these little monsters!!! They are horrid little creatures. I've had them, and they are gone now thank god! They are great jumpers and let me tell you they can jump 3 ft in the air and then snatch ahold of your finger leaving a wicked stream of blood dripping from your hand in a heartbeat. They for the most part can't be trained. The most tame any of them ever got for me was one who just happen to not bite me when I picked him up, still jumped but didn't bite. Not like it didn't stop the rest of them who were in that cage from lunging at me and bitting while trying to grab him. I used long tongues for picking them up because they are so horrid! Most people who breed them for food eventually give up with the little bastards because they are so horrible and while they do breed well, produce good food for their snakes, and even picky snakes will eat them they are just too much to handle!

As for the ferrets... mine won't touch them! Mine eat a mostly raw meat diet (lets face it pet store foods just aren't as good and it isn't their natural diet) but these little guys are just too high strung for my ferrets to go anywhere near! Commercial foods are too processed, don't give the ferrets a natural enough diet, and while they are ok they aren't great. Plus everyone I know who feeds their ferrets those commercial foods ends up with either lazy ferrets, sick ferrets, or ferrets who are constantly hunting even around the house for something to eat and catch! It's the thrill of the chase with them too not just what they are eating. For the same reason your rats would much rather dig in the dirt to pick their own foods ferrets are the same.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

Lil-lith said:


> Indigo_Paradox said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just curious... why would you breed them if they weren't going to be good pets?
> ...


ummm, as was pointed out there are plenty of products available out there for ferrets

I have 5 ferrets & they are completely thriving on the dry foods I offer them.

I've done my research & I use 3 different products so that I am never left without at least two for the mix. Just do your research & don't buy just what you find marked as ferret feed because many types out there do not provide for their dietary needs. 

You really don't need to feed them fresh kill & you definitely don't want to feed them live because this would promote aggressive tendencies.


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## Kathleen (Jul 1, 2008)

Gak, I can't imagine feeding ferrets live. That would be incredibly violent and gory. I can see offering raw, pre-killed meat to them as a dietary supplement but... not live. That just doesn't sound humane at all.


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## lil-lith (May 26, 2007)

Kathleen said:


> There's tons of commercial ferret diets out there that should meet their nutritional needs. I've just never actually heard of anyone feeding rodents to theirs. Would you feed live or F/T?
> 
> Sorry about all the questions. I'm not necessarily trying to criticize. I just find this very intriguing.


I'm surprised you've never heard of it - rodents are part of the polecat's natural diet, and by default the ferret's. I guess feeding raw is more of a European concept. I'm definitely not planning to feed live.



Kathleen said:


> Gak, I can't imagine feeding ferrets live. That would be incredibly violent and gory. I can see offering raw, pre-killed meat to them as a dietary supplement but... not live. That just doesn't sound humane at all.


Ferrets are very efficient killers; they kill their prey much faster than snakes do.


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## Kathleen (Jul 1, 2008)

> I'm surprised you've never heard of it - rodents are part of the polecat's natural diet, and by default the ferret's. I guess feeding raw is more of a European concept. I'm definitely not planning to feed live.


I know that ferrets are carnivorous but so are many pets people keep (dogs and cats, for example. And even rats are omnivorous). Around here, most carnivorous pets are given commercial processed diets that meet their nutritional needs in one convenient pellet (or whatever) shape.



> Ferrets are very efficient killers; they kill their prey much faster than snakes do.


I believe that a ferret can probably kill a mouse faster than a snake but I'm inclined to think that a ferret's playful nature leads it to "play" with its prey and be relatively violent. I could be wrong but that's what I imagine from my experience with ferrets. Snakes, meanwhile, strike, coil and suffocate within 90 seconds or so, and there's usually no blood involved. And even with the snakes' efficiency in mind, I'm pro-F/T (though not necessarily anti-live... but that's a whole other topic) and I'm glad you don't plan to feed live.

Anyway, if you can provide a raw, balanced and humane diet for your ferrets, power to you.  It's just an interestingly different subject to me... I think you're right when you say it's more of a European thing.


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## lil-lith (May 26, 2007)

Kathleen said:


> Around here, most carnivorous pets are given commercial processed diets that meet their nutritional needs in one convenient pellet (or whatever) shape.


It's the same here. Just because the majority of pet owners feed prepackaged food doesn't mean it's the best possible diet for the animal. Like you said, a ferret is a strict carnivore. In addition to this, their digestive system is ill-equipped to handle vegetative matter. Even high-quality brands of kibble contain grains, additives, the list goes on. Not to mention the unsavory origins of the actual "meat" it contains (battery chicken by-products anyone?). Of course, everyone should decide for themselves what to feed their animals, I just wish a little more thought was put into it sometimes (although I suppose that goes for all aspects of animal husbandry.)

Anyway, back on topic. In Dutch ASFs are called "many-nippled mice" - riveting stuff.


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## Indigo_Paradox (Jul 10, 2008)

Lil-lith said:


> It's the same here. Just because the majority of pet owners feed prepackaged food doesn't mean it's the best possible diet for the animal. Like you said, a ferret is a strict carnivore. In addition to this, their digestive system is ill-equipped to handle vegetative matter. Even high-quality brands of kibble contain grains, additives, the list goes on. Not to mention the unsavory origins of the actual "meat" it contains (battery chicken by-products anyone?). Of course, everyone should decide for themselves what to feed their animals, I just wish a little more thought was put into it sometimes (although I suppose that goes for all aspects of animal husbandry.)
> 
> Anyway, back on topic. In Dutch ASFs are called "many-nippled mice" - riveting stuff.


I don't know a lot about ferrets (never had one) and I did not know this... it really makes sense though. Thanks for clarifying. I agree with you that making sure your pet has the best possible diet for it's needs is really important. Good for you.

I do have to say though that I know many folks who do own ferrets and the prepackaged food has been fine for them... 

but I really do agree with your intentions I think that's really smart. I admire the amount of effort you are putting into food for your upcoming ferrets.

-Rozaylia


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

My ferrets don't just eat things they have to kill, I feed them chicken, duck, and other things you can purchase right at the grocery store. The commercial foods are offered to my ferrets and sometimes they do eat it, but given the option and they would much rather eat their raw food diet. I much prefer the frozen foods though to live kill, but my boyfriend sometimes picks up a mouse or two for them. My dogs get a 1/2 raw meat diet also because I can't find a commercial dog food that isn't questionable, has the higher protein my boston terrier needs and that he will actually eat. I currently am feeding him Purina benefull healthy radiance, but he gets 1/2 that and 1/2 raw meat in his bowl. The only reason why I feed him that is because when we go to the lake and on vacation then I know he will still eat regular dog food and that's much easier to pack for him. 

O yeah one more thing about the ferrets killing habits..... they kill FAST! My snake has nothing on them. One quick grab and the animal is dead instantly! Mine don't play with their food much at all and rarely leave a mess to clean up afterwards. They play with alot of things, but food isn't one of them!


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## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

A lot of dogs are fed the BARF diet - Bones And Raw Food - and it's a balanced diet. Personally I wouldn't feed it, because I just have this problem with touching raw meat, the blood and such, but yeah. There are ALSO plenty of dog foods without by-product/meal but with simple pure meat in those little pellets. I'm sure you can find good ferret food too.


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## mishasmom (Jul 21, 2008)

i have a friend who has the soft furs. They are cute and can be held as babies, but not as adults. They can and will be aggressive and generally can not be tamed down.


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