# Sticky  Every BYB's list of favorite excuses



## sorraia

*Irresponsible Breeder’s List Of Excuses*

1. When called out for bad breeding practices either in person or on an online forum, ALWAYS claim that you have been doing it for an extended period of time (generally 3 years or more)/people love your rats/you breed ‘quality’.

2. Point out that you know a lot of people who breed rats just like you do. (Do so as if this makes you morally justified.)

3. Claim that “snobby show breeders” are only criticizing you because they are snobs/are jealous/are just mean. No way could they actually know what they’re talking about. 

4. Claim that your rats go back to a well-known ancestor or bloodline. Never mind that the ancestor/bloodline is in the 5th generation and the rest of the rats have all done nothing but reproduce like rabbits. Never mind that they bear absolutely NO resemblance to aforementioned ancestor/bloodline. Note, however, that they ARE a pretty color/have flashy markings/have interesting fur type/are shiny.

5. Claim that you are just trying to produce good ‘family pets’, therefore good ‘family pets’ are all you need for breeding.

6. When asked about megacolon or other genetic disorders, or contagious diseases such as SDA, Sendai, or KRV, enthusiastically point out that none of your rats have shown any outward signs of the disease and their parents/grandparents/siblings/aunts/uncles/cousins didn’t either, so there is no need for concern or testing.

7. Point out that these tests cost too much and would cut into your profit margin/would make breeding impossible to afford. Be sure to champion the right of poor people to breed rats.

8. Confidently assure worried rescuers that no rat you produce, or any of their descendants will end up in rescues or pet stores or in snake bellies because you have a bunch of friends who have told you that they’d like a rat from your breeding program.

9. Point out that you don’t need championships or other standards for your rats because you are breeding for temperament and your rats are really sweet

10. Silence those annoying people who ask about your animals megacolon/SDA/Sendai/KRV/whatever health status by assuring them that buyers can return any afflicted rat and you will replace it with another from the same lineage.

11. If you breed a “rare” color or variety, be sure to remind everyone that you do not need to show or prove your breeding stock because you are doing the world a service by continuing this “rare” color/variety.

12. No matter what anyone else says, claim that you obviously know what you are doing because you’ve been breeding for a long time (see #1). Point to the hundreds of rats you’ve pumped out/sold/traded over the years as proof.

13. If this is your first attempt at breeding, make sure to remind everyone that you HAVE to breed your rat because how else are you going to learn how to breed? Everyone starts somewhere!

14. Assure everyone that your rat does not need to be shown or otherwise proven that it meets appropriate standards because you were assured by someone at the pet store/reptile show/online forum/email list/vet office /a friend that your rat is a perfect example.

15. Always remember that “rare” colors, oversized or undersized rats, and deformities (i.e. manx) are great selling points. Anyone who doesn’t think so is obviously not in tune with their customers’ wishes.

16. Claim that your rats are better because they are not inbred and are an ‘outcross’ to popular lines, as inbreeding obviously produces sick/stupid/deformed rats.

17. Assure everyone that your rats will not end up in rescues or pet stores because they are cute and well-tempered.

18. Claim that YOUR variety never ends up in rescues or pet stores, therefore your rats will never end up in these places.

19. If asked why you think your rats are breeding quality, point out that they have great ‘confirmation’ and/or a pretty color and a notable lineage. Extra points if they are registered with any club or association.

20. If you sell a sick rat, always blame the new owners for making it lame or sick. If the owners are clearly not responsible, blame their vet. 

21. If presented with irrefutable evidence proving you wrong on any excuses you have used, pretend your server did not receive the post/e-mail. Or, if you’re a moderator on the forum, lock or remove the thread. Extra points if you ban the poster who proved you wrong.

22. If all else fails, tell everyone who criticizes you to “get a life.” or to “stop being such a snob” or that you are successful breeders and know what you’re doing


*edited for typos


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## smesyna

Thanks for posting. I'd of laughed a lot harder if I hadn't heard *every single freaking one* of those.


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## HowlsOfAngels

Those are both hilarious and pathetic, they don't even put forth enough effort to sound mature about. #2 Sounds like something a teen would use to excuse innapropriate behavior; pretty much, if everyones doing it, it must be right.


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## Jaguar

lolol... too true, i'm stickying this


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## Robin

I'm new to the "rat world". That being said, I've heard plenty of horror stories in regards to breeding dogs. I've seen the results of irresponsible breeding first-hand, as I worked at a dog boarding facility for three years. I can only imagine the same thing happens with rats... there may even be MORE potential for abuse, since rats breed more often and can be kept in smaller areas than dogs can.

Thanks for the great read, and I agree... this thread deserves to be stickied. =)


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## Kiko

Agh! This is ALL SO true!!

#13 is swiftly turning into a Pet peeve LOL That is the one that makes me wanna jump off Niagra falls in a barrel full of wasps every time I hear it.


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## Kinsey

Love this.

And I want to throw this out there- the BYB rat I have is hormonally agressive, and has now developed an awful lump and weird bare scabby patches. No clue what they are, but likely his genetics had cause. BYBs suck. >.<


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## A.ngelF.eathers

This is definitely the guidebook to EVERY BYB of every species and breed of anything out there. You'll see this on Amazon next.


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## Jaguar

Kinsey said:


> Love this.
> 
> And I want to throw this out there- the BYB rat I have is hormonally agressive, and has now developed an awful lump and weird bare scabby patches. No clue what they are, but likely his genetics had cause. BYBs suck. >.<


my byb boy tore a 3 inch long gash into another rat's muscle while having a stroke/seizure and proceeded to pass away the same night. i couldn't agree more.


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## Ramen

I almost couldn't laugh at this as it is so true, and sad. It was amusing, but then when you see what happens to so many BYB rats it's just heartbreaking. Glad this was stickied though.


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## Jaguar

and don't forget about the "i breed to my own ethics" lol no names mentioned!


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## Nekopan

Jaguar said:


> my byb boy tore a 3 inch long gash into another rat's muscle while having a stroke/seizure and proceeded to pass away the same night. i couldn't agree more.


One of my BYB boys ended up with pneumonia despite never showing any respiratory symptoms as long as he's been with me. His brother was hormonally aggressive to the point he was almost neutered, and died of PT at 1 year 8 months. Another has malocclusion.


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## Jaguar

Nekopan said:


> One of my BYB boys ended up with pneumonia despite never showing any respiratory symptoms as long as he's been with me. His brother was hormonally aggressive to the point he was almost neutered, and died of PT at 1 year 8 months. Another has malocclusion.


ha ha... they were genetic timebombs, huh?


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## jynx

My BYB boy at around 6 months lost all of his hair, then grew lumps all over his stomach- which were cancerous. He then had to be put down at just under a year old.


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## Kinsey

That rat I mentioned dropped dead 4 hours before his appointment to be PTS after he stopped walking and refused to move.

The only sign anything was wrong was, for a very long time, a lump the size of a marble. Within a week his whole side became bare and scabby and the lump changed, then he died. My theory was that it was some kind of cancer which invaded organs rapidly.

I now have 2 young BYB bucks who I rescued at the shelter. They are ADORABLE. But, Louis is prone to the sniffles and just got the whole colony sick. Ugh!


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## Bright.Side

I have to admit... People who breed without having a clue frustrate me. But what's worse are the people who think they can keep males and females in the same cage and not get babies. *head desk*


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## SchusterKMRatties

I once thought of breeding, to be honest. But at the time I was researching it, had contacted breeders in my area that showed rats and had actually been breeding for a while. 

Instead, though, I have decided that a rat rescue versus a rattery is better suited for me. Why breed more when A. I know nothing about it really and B. there are rats without homes?

I'll admit though, have heard these excuses all too often from BYB.


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## spock22a

I'm curious as to why you phrased 16 the way you did. From classes I've taken in animal science and evolution there's a lot of evidence to sow inbreeding can leadup to an intensification of genetic deformities. It also lowers the genetic diversity of a group of animals, so if a disease goes through an area there's a lower chance that some of the animals could have an immune resistance to it (people are kind of worried about cows because of this). Some animal (such as wolves) have been selected to reproduce specifically with high amounts of inbreeding, but that not type of reproduction isn't too common.


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## nanashi7

spock22a said:


> I'm curious as to why you phrased 16 the way you did. From classes I've taken in animal science and evolution there's a lot of evidence to sow inbreeding can leadup to an intensification of genetic deformities. It also lowers the genetic diversity of a group of animals, so if a disease goes through an area there's a lower chance that some of the animals could have an immune resistance to it (people are kind of worried about cows because of this). Some animal (such as wolves) have been selected to reproduce specifically with high amounts of inbreeding, but that not type of reproduction isn't too common.


Inbreeding can lead to intensified bad things but doesn't entail that they're inferior. In fact, it's fairly common to cross cousins in breeding. Parading false superiority is misleading. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## spock22a

nanashi7 said:


> Inbreeding can lead to intensified bad things but doesn't entail that they're inferior. In fact, it's fairly common to cross cousins in breeding. Parading false superiority is misleading.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I can definitely see where you're coming from with the false superiority, but as a buyer I think I'm going to steer clear. Just not worth the side effects (ex-inbreed depression or whatever it was called. Forgot after my animal sci. final, lol), or the cumulative genetic effects in my opinion.


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## cagedbirdsinging

Inbreeding does not affect rats as it does with other animals.

EVERY rat you buy/adopt is the product of inbreeding. You cannot have healthy rats without it.


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## Hausdaddy

Number sixteen makes me want to pull the teeth of anyone who would say it.


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## mimsy

All the color ones rub me wrong kinda. I always notice, whether it's dogs, rats, cats, ferrets people breed for "cute" coloration-nevermind that it causes (well maybe not causes but there is a direct connection between the color and whatever defect) deafness, blindness, megacolon, unable to give birth without c-section ect..it's sooo dang cute. The bigger problem I have, is on the several pet boards I belong to, the pet owners (buyers) tend to go out of their way to get said "cute" pets..cus omg their cute. I don't think a lot of the animals would be bred such crappy genetics if it wasn't for people wanting to pay premium prices for them. Responsibility also lays in the hands of the buyer.


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## Namaste_RatMother

It's so sad, and pathetic, and true, but all around hilarious. Bravo


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## RavenclawRiddle

This is so accurate, sadly. And I've heard it all from dog and cat BYBers as well.


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## Malarz

What is BYB rat?

Noob


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## thenightgoddess

Malarz said:


> What is BYB rat?
> 
> Noob


BYB means Back Yard Breeder which is a breeder that is usually breeding just for money or because they want to see all the cute babies without really knowing what they are doing and usually the animals end up having something wrong with them, are kept in bad conditions, and or they make there females breed way to often.


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## Malarz

Thank you for explanation.

That is horribly irresponsible behaviour by PEOPLE. Thus I don't understnad why some in this forum say things like "byb rats suck". These animals did not ask to be born. They are alive, and deserve to have a good life too, as much as possible, imo. My two girls came from a pet shop, so they might be those byb rats too, who knows. I did not know there were rat breeders, I did not know any better when I got them. But they are the lovliest two creatures on Eath to me!  And I intend to give them the best possible conditions I can.


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## Jaguar

I would like to see what post(s) you are referring to. I have never seen anyone say that BYB/pet store/feeder rats are inferior to a "breeder" rat in any way. AT ALL. Some of the best rats people have had came from a pet store or feeder bin. Buying from (and therefor supporting) someone who breeds in such a careless manner is what really sucks.


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## Malarz

I misunderstood "BYB" as shorthand for also rats of that origin. Sorry, my mistake.


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## Ratpax

Hallmarks of BYB communication:

1. Tons of misspelling and grammatical errors.

2. Calling others pointing out some truths about breeding ethics "mean," while hurling insults at the "mean" people, up to and including calling the truth-sayers "fat, mean, need a job, jealous, snotty, elitist, b!tchy, and cowardly."

3. Related to that, accusing truth-sayers of "hiding behind a computer," when you, the BYB, are in fact hiding behind your own lies and sales pitches. Bonus points for accusations that no one who posts such truths online would ever have the guts to say these educational things in real life.

4. Try to dictate how other humans post on your thread. Tell folks they aren't permitted to say anything unless it's positive or "supportive." Bonus points if you work in a good long whine about how exceedingly difficult it is for you to get your animals to the vet when they need it. Or how good quality foundation stock is just totally out of your reach, so you *have* to breed these rats that are available to you. Bonus points if you work in the old quote from our mythical mothers who told us if we couldn't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

5. Compare your BYBing to humans having children. Talk a lot about how human children born with birth defects and challenges have a right to exist, and how those of us pointing out there are ways to minimize this risk in rat breeding simply want all those poor children and baby rats to be killed, because we are so heartless and cruel. Extra, extra bonus points for calling people Nazis and accusing them of wanting to breed only a superior race of humans.

6. Flounce at least twice. Work really hard at getting forum members to beg you to stay--at least a few misguided souls likely will, and you can revel in that attention. Because, you know, you're such a goldmine of ethics, reason, and wisdom, and the forum truly needs your daily input. Once you threaten to leave/keep other new members from joining/quit posting here at all, be sure to come back and explain that the only reason you're posting again is because you "can't just take being attacked," and must "defend" yourself.

7. Brag about how awesome your facility is. Tell forum members how much you bet it is waaaay better than their own set-up and how your rats are far better off than theirs, in addition to being cooler, prettier, and totally healthy, compared to their "sick, inbred show rats." Bonus points earned here if you brag about getting seed mixes at Walmart and feeding gummy bears as treats, while showing pics of your tiny hamster "starter cages," and/or craptastic hilljack-home-built filthy cobbled-together Frankencages with at least four square inches of space for each rat.

8. Very important--do NOT forget this one! End all nasty posts in which you've implied other forum members are guilty of all sorts of cruelty, stupidity, bad hair days, poor housekeeping, obesity, and killing butterflies, with this: *God Bless!

*(*God Bless* always goes at the end of every Craigslist or kijiji sales ad, too, don't forget!)


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## catty-ratty

The saddest thing about BYB's is that by taking one of their rats, you really ARE rescuing a rat from a horrible situation while at the same time supporting the BYB 'industry.


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## CraftingDreams

What is sad is that this isnt just in the Rat community. Ive seen people in the past 2 years "loan" out their female only to never get her back, to "breeders" who stuffed rats into small cages and had NO one to sell them to. *cringes*...

Thank you for the read..


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## The Rat and Another Rat

i'm not sure if rats have bloodlines... other than maybe lab rats are divided into Wistar, Sprague Dawley, Long Evans etc... as to interbreeding between relatives i think all Wistar rats interbred because they want to keep the genetic variation to as low as possible for getting more accurate experimental data... and because they were genetically engineered or whatever the Wistar rats are healthy and strong despite interbreeding or so i've heard from my prof.


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## Whiskersinwyoming

I found this list really helpful and informative! I love rats and this helped me learn how I should communicate with my rat forum friends (I think the line I'm going to end up using the most is #11, because I do think rare varieties are very important and should be preserved)
Thanks as always for your good advice!
Soon-to-be rat moma,
Whiskers in Wyoming


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