# Squirt is sleeping a lot mor then usual, I am scared for him



## Piperstar (Apr 8, 2013)

I got squirt April 5th of last year. He must have been 2-4 months old when I got him though. This being said he is about a year old. I have one concern. Out of my 2 boys he is the one the always passes up the food and bed when I open the door. He comes and lays in my lap while his brother hogs all of the food. Recently when I open the door he just stays asleep. He sleeps much more and much deeper then he used to. He was so asleep once I was afraid he had passed for a moment. I have read about males slowing down around 2 years of age, but he's only one. 30, in human years. A 2 year old rat is 60 in human years. (Sorry I'm not implying anyone can't add, Just emptying my brain) Could it be a sign of something worse? I also read that it could be from a temperature change. It did get colder recently. The furnace has been running, though. Please respond quick as possible. I am scared for my ratty boy.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

How would you describe the area his cage is in, temperature wise? For example, my room gets very hot so I see more isolated rats because they dont want to lay together. Conversely, when it is cold they don't want to get out the hammock/ratpile. 

As for the food, do you mean he is eating less? Those coupled with lethargy could indicate sickness.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Older boys are prone to a couple of things which people often mistake for “old age” and there are things you can do to help with both. 

The first is most likely in your case as its characterised by them going into deep sleeps (I call it the sleep of the dead and it is very scary as an owner lol) and also slowing down generally, seeming to only have short burst of energy. They can also get respy like symptoms and spend lots of time lieing with there heads hanging over things. This is caused by heart issues such as CHF, it is well worth taking a rat with this suspected along to the vet. They will try and listen to his heart but theres very little you can tell from this, in some cases an x-ray can help however its not that reliable. The best way to diagnose is to treat them as though they have it and expect an improvement in 3-5 days. The standard medication is frusomide (diuretic) and Fortekor (ace inhibitor). This normally leads to good improvements and a good extended quality of life. You cant fix it completely but I’ve heard of rats living happily for several months on this drug combo.

The second is very common in all old rats, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some level of it going on regardless of whether or not there are heart issues. This is kidney failure or degeneration and its probably safe to say he has some of this going on at his age so some basic dietary changes could help him an awful lot. If you also notice him drinking more than normal, or he is losing weight without an obvious reason (check his teeth too) or his coat has changed to fluffy and his teeth look a bit more transparent than a young rat then it is well worth getting the vet to do a dip stick check on his urine. It’s a simple reading which says if there are elevated levels of protein in there, if so then the vet can prescribe frusomide, which helps flush through the system more and eases the load on the kidneys. At this point I would also get some Ipaktine if you can or another phosphate binder (Calcium carbonate tablets for indigestion are a good alternative, though Ipaktine is better). Phosphorous puts a big strain on kidneys when they are wearing out, as does high protein levels so locking some of it away and reducing the amount in their diet is very helpful. 

If he isn’t showing any obvious signs of kidney failure then it is well worth putting him on a more kidney friendly diet anyway as it’s a really useful diet for old boys, it can give them a real boost and make them feel much younger. I’d need to get an idea of what your currently feeding and how he is though, if he’s loosing weight and skinny it would be different to if he was a bit chubby and not loosing weight


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## Piperstar (Apr 8, 2013)

My room doesn't get as warm as the rest of the house. The cage has been staying in the kitchen. My baby bother gives them a ride into the kitchen. Suprisingly enough, they enjoy it. As for the food he eats just fine. He just likes to have his snuggles and skritches first.


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## Piperstar (Apr 8, 2013)

He is eating a homemade mix of parrot seed and purina cat food. I do give them the occasional carrots as well. He is not losing weight, He is my bigger boy. I will check his fur and teeth and then update.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

Piperstar said:


> He is eating a homemade mix of parrot seed and purina cat food. I do give them the occasional carrots as well. He is not losing weight, He is my bigger boy. I will check his fur and teeth and then update.


Hey! His diet sounds like it's probably really high in fat and protein, which is really bad for older ....Maybe change that and see if his behavior improvises ? 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Definitly not good for his kidneys, cat food is useually at least 25% protien as dry food, an adult rat only needs 14% and older rats do better on 12% dry. Wet numbers come out differently due to water content but relatively your lad is probably getting at least double what he needs. Sunflowers are also very high in protien too, useful in there place but not as a big part of a diet. High fat foods are also very bad for the heart so coukd exascerbate a heart condition. The fkrst thing I would do is stop feeding that straight away, ideally getting hold of a good dry food, oxbow is one of the better easy to feed options in the us, though lab blocks arent ideal. If you cant then for now cook about 200g of white rice, then beat through one egg and microwave it for a minute or so until the egg sets, add about a tablespoon of chopled veg to it and a teaspoon of olive or even better flax/linseed oil. Thats an good kidney and heart kind short term diet whilst you find something better long term. You can also move your others onto it short term too, that high protien a diet is no good for any rats other than mums nursing young babies.

If you want to make your own mix I am happy to help you make a good one up, if you let me know the kind of things you can get hold of.


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## Piperstar (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks you so much, Isamurat. You have been very informative. I will try the rice and egg mixture tonight instead of their usual food. I am going to get off of the cat and bird mix right away. I would like to continue making my own food. If I have to start buying bags of feed again for my rats health, I will. Its just costly. I'm not being cheap, I just think I could easily save $100+ a year by making the mix at home. I would also rather know exactly what I am feeding them. 

As for what I have available: My family keeps a flock of chickens and some cows. I have chicken feed, Cow grain, and alfalfa on hand almost all of the time. We also try to avoid eating wheat. That being said I don't have and bread or crackers, things like that. We eat a lot of vegetables, dry fruit, and nuts. To supplement where wheat would usually be we have almond and coconut flour. We keep enough beans and rice on hand as well. If I need to buy a little something extra to supplement their diet with I can. If you have any more questions feel free to ask.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Can you post a link or the ingredients and nutritional make up of the cow and chicken feed. Im guessing the chickens are probably on mixed corn which is usually kibbled maize and wheat which could be useful in small amounts. Here's a rough guide to a pretty balanced dry mix, though it will need some extras to hit all the vits required. It's based off the shunamite diet and is similar structurfrom beanse to what I have feed for years. 

Minimally processed grains 45% (raise to 50% when there isn't old rats in the group)
A mix of Dried white rice (id use brown or even better paddy rice but for your old man, white is lower in phosphorous), pot or flaked barley, then a smaller amount of chicken corn. You can add in other bits and bobs like millet, buckwheat etc but major on the rice and barley, they are the best rat grains, the more variety the better normally

Processed grains 25% (reduce to 15% when no oldies in group)
A mix of human breakfast cereals ideally, making sure they are low sugar, less than 5g per 100g ideally. Cheapest are often the best here in the UK in terms of low sugar and salt. Again rice is great such as rice puffs or even unsweetened rice crackers. Corn flakes are also good. Try and keep wheat and oats low level and aim for at least 3 grains. Breakfast cereals are good as they are easy to digest for oldies but also are enriched with vitemins and minerals so help make it more balanced. 

Protien food 5% (up tp 10% when no oldies around)
The easiest for this is to get a senior dog food, ideally fish based, if you get a small pack it will last you ages and also be a nice treat for young rats needing extra protien, much better than cat food. Egg, fish and soya are the best protiens for kidneys, then chicken. 

Seeds 5% 
Ideally include some linseed or flax seed here as its great for kidneys and high in omega 3 oils. You could probably use some of your parrot food here to, whats In it?

Dried veg and herbs 10%
Dried peas, carrot, cabbage, peppers and herbs add flavour and vits nicely, dont add dried beans as they are toxic unless they are runner or green beans. You can dry your own easily and is much cheaper, plus you can have them in rat sized chunks. Even some garden weeds like dandilion and plantain over here make great dried veg, if they can eat it fresh is normally good dried in a mix asside from beans , let me know if your not sure how to dry stuff. 

Extras
Try and give your rats a mix of fresh veg every 2 days and make sure dark green leafy stuff like cabbage and brightly coloured stuff like carrots and tomatoes are major parts, ideally with some berries a couple of times a week. 

I'd give your rats an eggy rice meal once a week instead of there dry, with the egg shell broken up in it and any extra egg shells you have can also be thrown in the cage too as well as cooked bones and even some raw ones if the meat is safe to eat raw. This will help cover the calcium requirements. 

Next look in your local health food shop or even supermarket for food liver oil, look for one that doesn't list vitamin a in the ingredients or says vitamin a extracted, it can be capsuals or oil. 1 human dose gives about 20 rat doses of vitamin d so either give the rats one each every 2 to 3 weeks (mine love them lol) or add them to your eggy rice mix.

I would also try to give them some cooked liver about once every week or two. If you don't often have it yourself I can give you a recipe for how to make liver treats which freeze well and add valuable copper to there diets.


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## Piperstar (Apr 8, 2013)

Chicken feed: http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/poultry/naturewise-poultry/naturewise-layer16/index.jsp
Ground corn, Soybean meal, Soy flour, Processed grain by-products, Roughage products, Cereal food fines. I only put the first 6 things on the ingredient list. There are many more.The link contains the percentage of fat, protein, fiber, etc.

Horse feed (Being used for cow): http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/safe-choice/safechoice-maintenance-horse-feed/index.jsp
Plant protein products, Processed grain by-products, Grain products, Roughage products, Forage products, Molasses products.

Other then this we commonly have Sprout products for the cow. Grain and oats.


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## Piperstar (Apr 8, 2013)

Sorry, The parrot food is pretty basic. Sunflower seeds, what appears to be tiny cat food, and then all of the teeny tiny unidentifiable seeds.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Both are not bad nutritionally, however the ingredients are lowis quality from the descriptions as the more named things the better quality they useually are. Could you post a photo of each of them. They could be useful as long as the horse one is not too full of alfalfa and grasses. At minimum I would use the chicken one in the minimally processed grain part of a mix. The horsefood could be handy as its so high in copper if its edible for the rats, rats cant really digest grasses well, they have the wrong type of digestive system


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