# Questionable Ratteries



## HowlsOfAngels (Apr 9, 2011)

Rattery 1: http://lovindarats.weebly.com/ldr-tony-x-ldr-tella.html

They've uselessly culled a litter. !?!?
Has anyone here dealt with them before? 
This is the first rattery I've seen (so far) that openly culls litters for no apparent reason. I do realise that this litter (if that is the dangerous blaze) is at higher risk of MC, but they didn't mention MC.

Rattery 2: http://www.freewebs.com/windyhill07/

Aren't there risks of breeding Hairless to Hairless?

Also, unrelated question: All hairless look pink to me. 
How do you tell the color of a hairless rat?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Oh god help us all!!!

http://lovindarats.weebly.com/about-us.html


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## halfmoon (Mar 29, 2010)

I don't even have grown-up words to describe this. My brain just goes "beeebgahhhhawiifaaabbbcceuuuwsss" when I think about this nonsense.


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## wheeljack (Mar 17, 2011)

From the very minimal amount of info on the second breeder's site it looks like their hairlesses are actually double-rexes and there is no issue breeding those to my knowledge. It's the true hairless rats that are prone to lactation issues depending on the line.

That first link though--every time I think I've found the worst byb page, another one always comes along to surpass it. This one may be at the top of my list now.


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## distancel (May 14, 2011)

I can't believe that LovinDaRats place. I just think...O_O Why? Why would they cull entire litters, or over half? Is it because the rats don't have the correct 'type' that they are trying to breed? I can't believe this. And they started out as a 'rescue'? That makes me sick.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

They are affiliated with teh AFRMA which IMO promotes the same questionable practices. Culling litters and doing "let's see what happens" litters. I am sure they were breeding both of those to see if they were dominant high-white markings to see if they would end up with Megacolon. Surprise! (insert sarcasm here)


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## Critter Aficionado (Jan 30, 2011)

Suddenly I feel the urge to bash my head against the keyboard. Why can't we just "cull" people who are not only brainless, but also heartless? I'm assuming by cull they mean kill in this case since they say "no adoptions". Ugh.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Critter aficionado said:


> Suddenly I feel the urge to bash my head against the keyboard. Why can't we just "cull" people who are not only brainless, but also heartless? I'm assuming by cull they mean kill in this case since they say "no adoptions". Ugh.


culling means removing from the breeding program but in this case and so many others it means KILL...we are not talking about euthanasia at a vet either.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

So how do they do it you think?

Scratch that....i don't know if I wanna know :'(


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## sorraia (Nov 10, 2007)

HowlsOfAngels said:


> Rattery 1: http://lovindarats.weebly.com/ldr-tony-x-ldr-tella.html
> 
> They've uselessly culled a litter. !?!?
> Has anyone here dealt with them before?
> This is the first rattery I've seen (so far) that openly culls litters for no apparent reason. I do realise that this litter (if that is the dangerous blaze) is at higher risk of MC, but they didn't mention MC.



Without having any correspondence with this breeder and only having their website to go by...
Their litters page states this litter was a "test". Unfortunately they don't state exactly what they were testing for or what the results were. Their page also does not say what they mean by "cull". Though deceiving because of its popular usage, "cull" does NOT automatically mean the rats are killed. It DOES mean they are removed from the breeding program. EVERY breeder should "cull" their rats... because not every rat is of quality that is worth breeding. However, breeders should not cull by killing. I cull my rats by spaying/neutering and pet placing them, or by simply keeping them as my own personal pets. 

Having said that... I strongly suspect this particular litter will result in megacolon babies. From the dates listed, they should be too young to yet be showing signs, but I suspect they will. There is no mention about where these lines are coming from. The breeder is either being very selective with what information they provide the public (why?), or are being very irresponsible and breeding unknown lines. That risk of megacolon is probably why this litter is a "test" and why the entire litter is being "culled" (again not knowing how the breeder is culling their babies). 



> Rattery 2: http://www.freewebs.com/windyhill07/
> 
> Aren't there risks of breeding Hairless to Hairless?



Yes and no. It depends on the line of hairless. There are actually several known coat type mutations in pet rats, though not all of those are common or even available in the pet hobby. There are several known mutation of just hairless mutations. Some are more prone to health problems than others. There ARE bloodline that exist which can safely lactate, thus a hairless to hairless mating is fine, because the females will be able to raise their litter. (In MY personal opinion, if a particular bloodline or variety is known for such problems as inability to lactate, that line or variety should NOT be bred.) These bloodlines may have other issues though, such as skin and eye problems or weak immune systems, but these are also issues that tend to be common in hairless to begin with.



> Also, unrelated question: All hairless look pink to me.
> How do you tell the color of a hairless rat?


True hairless will have fuzz as babies. As far as I'm aware, this is the only way to know what color they actually are. Once they go through their first moult, this fuzz is shed and will not (or should not) regrow.


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## sorraia (Nov 10, 2007)

wheeljack said:


> From the very minimal amount of info on the second breeder's site it looks like their hairlesses are actually double-rexes


I can't even view the site, except the first page, and that one picture does look like a double rex to me.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Sorraia, what do these statements mean? I have never personally heard of them :-\

_I breed to the United Rat Standards.

I register with the Better Rats, Better Breeders Registry (BRBB # 05-29WHR2011)
_


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## sorraia (Nov 10, 2007)

lilspaz68 said:


> Sorraia, what do these statements mean? I have never personally heard of them :-\
> 
> _I breed to the United Rat Standards.
> 
> ...


The first means they use the standards set forth by NIRO and RFL:
http://niro-usa.org/articles/United%20Rat%20Standards.pdf

The second, it must be another registry someone has created. NARR is the registry most people know about. AFRMA has a registry, I have seen other clubs with registries. This is just another one.


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## sorraia (Nov 10, 2007)

Yup.... here it is. http://www.betterratsbetterbreeders.com/


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Sorraia said:


> Yup.... here it is. http://www.betterratsbetterbreeders.com/


So all of this means nothing.

And yet 2 more "delightful" Canadian breederrs. UGH


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

lilspaz68 said:


> Sorraia said:
> 
> 
> > Yup.... here it is. http://www.betterratsbetterbreeders.com/
> ...





> BRBB doesn't discriminate amongst our breeders for how they deal with their rattery, being breeding rats from a feeder bin stock ( This does not mean we encourage you to start at a pet store ! ) , or breeder stock. As we understand that a breeder has to start somewhere and even our so-called " Top" breeders got their stock from feeder bins and/or pet stores at one time or another, remember the Harley ( found in a pet shop in Sept. 1 2002 by OFR ), was found in a pet shop! And Many more new varieties can be discovered in places like such.


LOOOOOOOOOOOL.

yeah no.


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## HowlsOfAngels (Apr 9, 2011)

Jaguar- lol That looks like it was written by a teen or something. They're insane to encourage such practices as looking through feeder bins and simply looking away when their 'breeders' innapropriately manage their rats.

Sorraia- Neat, lol, moulting rats. That sounds like an interesting sight. And about the poor mothering in some hairless bloodlines, I've come across a few ratteries that will only breed two litters together one hairless and one haired so that the hairless babies can be fostered by the haired doe.

Canadians? Is there less pet rattie info available to them because of the location, there have been several poor breeders from Canada mentioned lately.


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

Nah the info is there, just for some reason only a small handful of decent breeders . Canada is FULL of BYB's :-\.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

It's not because of the location, because it's attached to the US lol. We basically the same info, and there are good breeders in states bordering CA>

I honestly don't know why the breeders there are crummy,


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## sorraia (Nov 10, 2007)

Usually, when the information, resources, and animals are possibly available to them (as is the case here in the US and at least parts of Canada), a person can still be a crummy breeder because they choose to. They decide it is "too hard" to jump through the hoops to work with the more responsible breeders. Or they decide its too much work to be a responsible breeder, they would rather do things their own way. They don't agree with the various aspects set aside... for example.... Who has the right to tell them how many litters they can or can't have? So what if they have 8 litters a month, or foster out half of them, the babies are still socialized right? They fail to understand the difference between producing BETTER rats versus MORE rats. They fail to understand that no matter how well socialized their babies may be, they really are NO different from those animals in a pet store (or rescue, no offense to rescues) if the effort isn't there to improve them, if the records aren't there to track health, etc. Just because you call yourself a breeder doesn't make you better than a pet store.... even pet stores can be breeders if they produce their own animals, even mills are breeders, even that child who put the boy rat with the girl rat to see what happened can be called a breeder. A breeder really is only someone producing animals. What differentiates one breeder from another is HOW they do that and WHY they do that.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

bleeeeh. locking this before it gets personal.


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