# Ugh, potential disaster.



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

So everyone moved into their new FN 2-3 weeks ago, and all was well. I've got the boys on the top, and girls on the bottom, and I thought that I had it adequately escaped-proofed. I had plugged up the hole between the levels with a rat-proof screen and put strips of gutter-guard on the doors over the large spaces. But what I didn't realize is that there are large bars in the back, too.

Around the same time I got the cage, I also started weighing everyone periodically. I've noticed a 20-30g weight gain in several of the girls, and I'm very scared that somehow a boy might have gotten in the girl's cage or vice-versa.

So, the moral of the story is cover your FN well. I can't believe I didn't notice that there were larger bars in the back, too. That was a retarded oversight on my part, and hopefully their weight gain is due to the extra treats they've been getting, not pregnancy.

The ones who are gaining weight should all be okay age-wise... except my heart girl, Butts. She's over a year now, and she's got permanently damaged lungs from bad pneumonia & myco issues. She also has problems keeping her weight on... which is why this recent weight gain for her is so strange. Of course, she's never had a litter before, and I know that her pelvic bone would have fused by now. So she'll have to go in for an e-spay, I suppose. Fortunately I have a great vet, and he's pretty experienced w/ doing spays.

Right now I'm going to hope and pray that we don't have a ton of pregnant rats, weigh everyone daily, and switch all the girls over to the 2018 diet (from 2014). Also, I'm going to try to pick up some extra cages at thrift, and make an immediate trip to the hardware store to pick up more stuff to cover the back bars. 

Yuck!

(Oh, and I don't need advice on pregnancy, I've watched 4 births, and have interacted with those litters on a daily basis until they were weaned. I'm mostly posting because everyone around here is sick of hearing me talk about rats, and I need an outlet!)


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## Lestette (Jun 16, 2007)

Oh dear  I hope that everything works out ok! Accidents are terrible... 
But I'm sure it will be a learning experience... I would suggest trying to find homes for the little ones now, or at least start looking at your options for that...

Hopefully all will be well! Keep us updated!


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

Argh! *crosses fingers, toes, eyes...* Good luck with that!


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

its too bad spays cost so much otherwise an easy fix would be to get all the girls spayed. that way too you'd be able to mix the boys and girls and just haeve the one open cage to deal with. maybe you could talk to your vet and see if you could make a deal with him or something eh? i don't know, its a thought. 

i wish you the best of luck and hope that is just extra treats too. let us know how this goes.


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## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Honestly, I just don't have the funds to get them all spayed. I'd have to go into debt, and I don't believe in spending money I don't have. So even if the vet did cut a deal - it'd be more that I can afford currently. Also, only two of the girls are mine. The other 4 are my roommate's, and she doesn't believe in vet care. As much as I'd love to help her rats out, I have my own to take care of. (Oh, and I'd love to have them all mixed, that'd be awesome! As soon as I have a regular paycheck...)

Oh, and I just talked to my roommate - she told me that she found & squeezed out some kind of white chunk from the vagina of my young girl (Shimmy). She kept it and showed it to me - it looks like a seminal plug. So that means we're pretty much guaranteed one litter. I'm definitely keeping all fingers and toes crossed that Butts is not preggers!! 

And... it's a bit barbaric, but we may just euthanize the rittens at 3-4 weeks for my roommate's corn snake. I've seen several people trying to give away rats recently on Craig's List with no luck - I have a feeling it'd be very difficult to find homes for as many rats as there might be. Also, these particular rats are of pet store genetics, and have had myco issues since birth. They really shouldn't have their genetic lines furthered.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i would be in nearly the same situation. spays are so expensive and really vets don't often do the deals anyway. and i'm with you about not spending money that you don't have, its why i avoid getting my own credit card like the plague. it really sucks though that you can't get them all together. a large mixed colony is so much fun. 

no, they shouldn't have their genetics continued but the same can be said for many humans. and i know the snake needs to eat to so that's always an option as well but at least give it a shot at homing them. if you advertise now you might be able to get some lined up for homes. you never know, you might luck out and get at least a few into a home then the rest can go to the snake but at least they had a chance at a home. 

i understand being over run with rat babies. i brought home 2 females from a pet store to add up to five then 3 weeks later my total was 29. i was hard pressed to find homes for everyone and some even went out of province to a rescue and others went to people that i really shouldn't have given them too because i was getting so desperate. its a huge pain in the arse and i don't ever want to go through it again. 

i wish you all the luck that the litters are small and you luck out with homes. please keep us posted.


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## d00mg1rl (Jun 27, 2007)

hopefully they aren't pregnant
but if they are good luck


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## LiLmissJ_01 (Apr 25, 2007)

Isnt this what I got repremended for and told if I didnt have the money for an espay then I didnt have money for a litter. Mine was the same kind of accident. A mistake in bar size. Just so you all know my lil Chanel is doing just great. I have a vet lined up along with an evet Shes seperated and has been given nice nesting material along with protien supplemented food. Just letting you all know since no one asked and seemed to care like they do in this post. I wish you luck 2manyrats. Accidents suck and all you can do is your best to get through them.


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## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

I didn't read your thread, lilmissJ, but it wouldn't surprise me if you were reprimanded for that. I'm kinda surprised no one has jumped on me thus far.

And I don't believe that people have an accurate idea of how much a litter costs. In a rat that's healthy and of appropriate age, there's a pretty low risk of problems. If you've got an older or a very young rat, then you're more likely to have problems. An espay's a good way to spend money in that kind of situation (like my girlie Butts). Now if a pregnancy goes wrong and you run to the vet, especially an e-vet, that can cost a *ton* - that must be where people get this figure of rat litters costing arms, legs & first born children. The cost of food, bedding, and extra cages is nominal, if you don't run out to PetSmart to outfit yourself. My food cost $.35/lb., the extra veggies & bones cost about $2-4/wk. The bedding is $4 for $40lb., and my maternity cages cost less than $5 at thrift. The way I run things, having a litter is a *heck* of a lot cheaper than an espay... and I'm willing to play the odds for females that are in good health.

I think it's rather silly of people to criticize others if they don't have the money to spend hundreds of dollars on a rat's health, especially when there's an accidental litter. ****... many people don't have that much money to spend on their own health. Maybe those that criticize could better use their time trying to get *humans* adequate health care across the board. What about those 40 million uninsured people in the US?

Anyways, there's some good info on the web about helping along pregnancies that are starting to go wrong. That's a good thing to educate yourself with if you've got a pregnancy on your hands. Knowledge about carefully palpating the abdomen to change the position of rittens that are stuck in the Y-shape of the uterus saved one doe I know... and the Rat Guide gives some instructions on using forceps to help along a particularly stubborn pinkie.

Don't get me wrong, I believe rats should be given great health care. But sometimes, there are other uses of money that are more important... like providing basic necessities to yourself and your family. 

Anyways, good luck with your situation, too, lilmissJ, and I hope people haven't been too mean.


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

Personally, my issues with you, LiLmissJ_01, is that you 1) are going to sell "excess" you don't adopt out to a pet store (which is NOT taking full responsibility for the issue at hand, mistake or not), 2) your girl is rather young though you won't reveal her age when asked (which leads me to believe she's VERY young and puts the pregnancy at very high risk as well as the rittens) and 3) you "loan" your boy to your friend to breed and said friend sells the babies to a petstore. As far as I know, 2manyrats has not or does not do these things. No one picked on you for the accident itself.

Anyway, 2manyrats, I hope you've got few or no pregger moms!


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## KimmiesGuineas (Jun 14, 2007)

Good luck, please keep us updated!


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

2manyrats said:


> And... it's a bit barbaric, but we may just euthanize the rittens at 3-4 weeks for my roommate's corn snake. I've seen several people trying to give away rats recently on Craig's List with no luck - I have a feeling it'd be very difficult to find homes for as many rats as there might be. Also, these particular rats are of pet store genetics, and have had myco issues since birth. They really shouldn't have their genetic lines furthered.


I just wanted to say how strong you must be, I can see that more rats without forever homes would not be good for rats or humans. 

As you are not keeping the babies would it not be cheeper to have an abortion than pay for the possible emergency c section you lady might need?


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## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

For my younger girl (whose weight has definitely been increasing steadily indicating that she's indeed pregnant), I think the chance of problems with a pregnancy is about equal to the chance of problems in surgery. She's healthy and old enough to support a pregnancy. Eventually, I want to have her spayed, though.


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## Rodere (Feb 26, 2007)

lilmiss, our problem after telling you if you can't afford an e-spay you can't afford a litter, is the fact that you flat said you cannot afford an e-spay for 1 female rat. In 2manyrats case it is the lack of funds for several spays. Not just one.

And all of the reasons that Kimmie has already gone over.

Best of wishes 2manyrats. I hope all goes well with you and your girls. I'm suprised you all never found a girl in the with boys or anything. Usually if they can get out then they don't go back into the cage. 

And if never hurts to try and find homes for as many as you can now. Perhaps you'll luck out and have fewer to euthanize later. It's a hard decison, but made for the right reasons. Better that than for them to be homeless or treated unkindly in the future. And much better than a petstore.


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## MagicalLobster (Jun 30, 2007)

Update? Did she give birth?


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## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Little Shimmy successfully gave birth to 11 rittens late this morning, and she seems very flustered. She keeps picking babies up and walking in circles. She's biting too hard (and she's too flustered) for me to reach in and check for milk bellies. So far I haven't seen her sitting on them, so I may end up hand-feeding (she does seem to be licking them for elimination).

It turns out that the older rat of mine is not pregnant (thank god). But one of the other ones is, and she's ~9 months old. She's due any day now, and it looks like she's going to have ~6 babies, so I'll transfer some of Shimmy's to her for nursing once she delivers.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

well at least it was only the two that are having babies. it must be a relief that you're older girl is in the clear. hopefully shimmy will settle down soon and be a fantastic mother and only needs the time to take a deep a breath before she begins. and hopefully too that your other will only have the 6 you are thinking she is going to have and has them easily with no complications. please keep us updated and pictures of the new arrivals are always apprecaited.


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## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

I'm not sure that I want to make a photographic memorial to babies that I'm going to euthanize. Maybe when they get to the cute phase (i.e. hair) I'll snap a few photos, but it seems kinda morbid to take a bunch of photos of ratties destined for a snake's belly.

And she's settled down and is nursing them. They've got HUGE milk bellies. Still no babies from our other girl (I'm starting to get worried).


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## Chivahn (Mar 30, 2007)

The same thing happened with my FN, but only Charlotte got pregnant. Had 10 pups on Thursday.


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## OhBugger. (Apr 6, 2007)

ah.
I hope everything turns out alright for you and the dear things.
I'd take a couple kittens off your hands if I lived closer.


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## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Chivahn - sorry to hear about your litter, but it's awesome that she delivered without complications!

The Latest Update: Shimmy's become an excellent mother - it took her a little while to get used to what she needed to do, but now she's doing a wonderful job. She covers the nest when she wants to run off for a bit (none of the other moms I've witnessed have done this) so we played a little game with her where we gave her *tons* of little cat toys and extra tiny fabric scraps. She actually piled it ALL on top of the babies until it was a small mountain! hehe. Oh, and there are 13 babies. I miscounted before. There are no discernible runts, no stillborns, all have survived (surprisingly!). 

Zoe did not have any babies. We believe that she may have reabsorbed her litter, as she never gained more than 40g and her weight started decreasing days before she should have delivered. We've started her on a course of Baytril to make sure that there are no problems with infection.


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## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

Aw, I'd take some rittens but I'm only 14 and have parents, unfortunately. I actually got a couple rats when I was much younger for free from a guy who bred them for snake food.


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## trisnic (Aug 20, 2007)

KayRatz, 2manyrats is pretty much a feeder breeder in this case. She didn't even attempt to find homes for the babies and she didn't E-Spay the mommy before the babies were born. She just killed them all the babies at their cute stage for a snake. Sorry to say this as a "newbie" to this forum about a regular but that is how I see it.


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