# Chanel went and got herself knocked up.



## LiLmissJ_01 (Apr 25, 2007)

Yesterday I introduced my younger girls to the older girls because I believed they were big enough for the "Big Girls" cage. Well it turned out that Chanel was just small enough to squeeze through the bars and guess where I found her. She was in Gus and Jack's cage and she looked like she had been tramatized plus when I turned her over she looked like she had been violated. Luckly good breed lines, but unfortunately Ive never have done this before....I need advice. I already have Chanel back in a cage she cant escape from and Im gonna go tomorrow and pick up some kitten food to mix into her usual food blend as suggested in another post but other than that, Im clueless. Im excited as well, but it was never in my plans to have any of my girls ever give birth. I'd rather adopt than breed, but now its done and I want to do everything I can to make sure that everything goes right. BTW vet is lined up...no worries there.

Thanks, Jenn


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## KimmiesGuineas (Jun 14, 2007)

I know that the average gestation period is about 21 days, the babies are born pinkies with no fur or open eyes, and lots of pics are mandatory once they've been born! 

But I have no experience about baby rats, or rats for that matter! So all else I could say is good luck!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Have you even thought of an e-spay? This would benefit her right now as well as the rest of her life.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

What are the colors/types of the males and female involved?


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## KimmiesGuineas (Jun 14, 2007)

But wouldn't spaying her terminate the babies? If she is healthy and strong enough to carry the babies, why do that?


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## LiLmissJ_01 (Apr 25, 2007)

I know she is Het for dumbo ears and has aguouti creamy/strawberry blonde hair and ruby eyes and this is her first litter.... my boys are as follows Gus I dont know direct background but he is dumbo eared and when my friend used him for breeding in her line he made some beautiful babies and that is where Jack came from....son of Gus.....Jack is a Blue with highlights of brown agouti fur and dumbo ear and this would be his first mating as well. I think I'll have some beautiful babies and great temperments to match. Gus and Jack are lickers and Chanel is a snuggler. I will not terminate...I have a petstore that would love to have babies from this stock because my girls and boys came from my friend's stock and I also have people that would adopt. I just need advice on the proper way to take care of a pregnant mother and then after birth the mother and the babies. I want to do this right.


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

It's healthier for a young female to get an e-spay (which does terminate the pregnancy, yes) then allow her to go to term. Young mothers are often very bad mothers, as they are literately babies having babies. How old is Chanel? If she's not at least 3 months, preferably over 4/5 months, you could be in for a world of trouble/hurt/expense. Maybe you'll get lucky, only time would tell.

I hope if you do allow her to go to term and have that babies that you do NOT sell to a pet store. It'd be much better to adopt them out yourself, screen the homes, and know what kind of homes they are going to. Nearly all pet stores wouldn't bother and may sell them as feeder rats. Selling to a pet store isn't doing what's best.

However, it really WOULD be in the best interest of your rat to get her spayed. She could die during labor, her babies could be born with all sorts of problems, she could not know how to take care of them (which means you would get to feed each baby EVERY 2 hours for WEEKS), etc. If you're going to go through with it, be ready to pay for a c-section or other emergency care for mom and/or the babies, watch for babies stuck in the canal, be ready for mom to reject the babies (either all or some), be ready to have them die (even breeders have this happen) and/or mom could cull them herself... There is a lot you'll need to know may happen.

Also, be ready with roomy enough cages for mom and the babies (she could have as many as 18-20, it's not unheard of, though average is 8-12. You'll need to separate the boys from the girls at 5 weeks, to prevent this from happening again.

There's tons on the internet about rat pregnancy, birth and newborns. Here's a few I followed when our rescue mom came in with a litter, and then had another:

http://www.worldofrats.com/ROUSBreedingFAQMain.html
http://ratguide.com/breeding/
http://www.boardmanweb.com/rattery/ratbreeding.htm


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## Rodere (Feb 26, 2007)

A petstore is most likely a very bad idea. If you aren't willing to terminate, then you should be prepared to find them homes. Petstores do not screen their buyers. You never know where or who the babies could be going to. And there are some pretty messed up people out there...

It would be in their best interests if you screened adopters and found them homes yourself.


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## KimmiesGuineas (Jun 14, 2007)

I agree. If you think that she's healthy and strong enough and you want to do it, then please find the adopters yourself as petstores want money, not good homes.


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## LiLmissJ_01 (Apr 25, 2007)

I am gonna find adopters first, but please dont pass judgement on a petstore u know nothing about. My friend and I have been doing business with them for a long time. If I go in there with however many I have left after my own adopting out, I can go in there and set my babies up in the "for pets only" cages. Jeanette the owner does the rest by making sure every person that buys the "pets only" rats have everything they need for a good set up. She keeps all her feeders seperate in the back. My plan is to adopt as many out as possible. My friend is alreay calling claims on a few of them because she knows how sweet and cute they are gonna be from this breeding. She loves all the rats shes gotten when she has borrowed Gus for her own breeding purposes. Please don't worry about these babies...How much you guys wanna bet I end up keeping the majority.


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## renay (May 30, 2007)

Rodere said:


> A petstore is most likely a very bad idea. If you aren't willing to terminate, then you should be prepared to find them homes. Petstores do not screen their buyers. You never know where or who the babies could be going to. And there are some pretty messed up people out there...
> 
> It would be in their best interests if you screened adopters and found them homes yourself.


I can back that story up,.... my friends boyfriend bought a rat from a pet store and all was well for the first couple of weeks... then after a while she noticed that the rat was acting weird like doing back flips and having mini seisures and stuff.... get ready to be mad.... turns out her boyfriend was feeding the rat speed. Needless to say i've severed all ties with them before telling them both how disgusting they are, him for doing that and her for staying with someone capable of that.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

LiLmissJ_01 said:


> My friend is alreay calling claims on a few of them because she knows how sweet and cute they are gonna be from this breeding. She loves all the rats shes gotten when she has borrowed Gus for her own breeding purposes.


Ugh, please don't breed pet store rats.


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## KimmiesGuineas (Jun 14, 2007)

Oh goodness, that is so sad renay. What is the point of doing something like that? It's not funny, it's not cool, it's mean. That makes me so sad :'(


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## renay (May 30, 2007)

KimmiesGuineas said:


> Oh goodness, that is so sad renay. What is the point of doing something like that? It's not funny, it's not cool, it's mean. That makes me so sad :'(


you know it, and i know it. 
people are sick, which is why i don't agree with breeding, too many people breed rats just because they can and there are already way too many for people to care for as it is,... i mean how many rats are looking for homes right now because they were cheap pet store buys and the kid locked it in a cage for a while and got bored? Too many.


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

You said you wanted to do what was right, since this was an accident, but I'm confused... You and your friend have "done business" with this pet store for a long time? So you've had litters before? You already said your friend has "borrowed" your rat (from a pet store) for breeding.

I don't think any of us are judging anyone by saying a pet store will not go through the same processes as (I hope) you would adopting them out yourself. They are in the business to make money, period. They don't check references, or have anyone fill out an application, I bet.

You'll do what you want, but I don't understand why you think you'd be doing right by selling any of the "leftovers" to the pet store, or why there's any breeding going on with your pet store rat in the first place.


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## LiLmissJ_01 (Apr 25, 2007)

my friend breeds....i dont....mine was an accident


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## Rodere (Feb 26, 2007)

But you still cater to a business who sells live animals for profit, and some even for food. Whether the rats you give them or sell to them are pets or not, the profit they make still goes to the continuation of a business that should either be stopped or closely monitored.


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## tattered_teddy_bear (Apr 24, 2007)

woahhhh people, I work at a pet store, not ALL pet stores are out to sell rats as food, I work at a pet store because i love animals, trust me, look at my pay check, i LOVE animals. AND Isn't the pet store better then a lot of things that would come to the babes? How about we help by giving advice and helping look for home?

sorry, i don't like when people are attacked when they ask for help, no matter what faults you find, there's a nice way of putting it.


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## renay (May 30, 2007)

tattered_teddy_bear said:


> woahhhh people, I work at a pet store, not ALL pet stores are out to sell rats as food, I work at a pet store because i love animals, trust me, look at my pay check, i LOVE animals. AND Isn't the pet store better then a lot of things that would come to the babes? How about we help by giving advice and helping look for home?
> 
> sorry, i don't like when people are attacked when they ask for help, no matter what faults you find, there's a nice way of putting it.


hmm.. i disagree, I think people need to be well informed of the faults that they're making when it comes to pets.. whether its through what you're calling "attacking" or not. Its uneducated people that commit cruelty against animals. And other uneducated people who permit them to do it. 

This is a case of what seems like pure ignorance. Its not fair for the rats, so why should we be fair to the owner? And whether or not ignorance is considered cruel is up to everyone to decide but in my opinion it is and for good reason.

Ive said it a million times... breeding just for the **** of it is irresponsible and disgusting. Breeding petstore rats falls directly under my disgusting category. 

I understand that accidents do happen, and in this case it is a legit accident.... but it doesn't seem like the right decisions are being made to counter act it...


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## LiLmissJ_01 (Apr 25, 2007)

Look, Im looking for homes first....what dont you people understand....I didnt mean for this to happen and I am taking all the steps to make sure that the mother gets through this fine. If I could keep every single one that I cant adopt out I would, but I can't. So, I am doing the next best thing buy taking them to a place I trust. I dont like the fact that you are pointing the finger at me like I am a horrible pet owner. I take all of my animals to the vet. Feed them all the best quality food I can get a hold of and most of all I give them all the love in the world I have. I am not ignorant, I just made a mistake. Im sorry you dont like the decisions Im making, but it is my decision. I came on here seeking advice on what would be the best food to supplent for the mother, the best bedding for her and such, not to be belittled. So unless you have advice in those areas I would appreciate it if you didnt respond to this post. 

Thank you, 
Jenn


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## IceLore (May 13, 2007)

Actually, anyone can respond to your post. This is a forum. That's how this works.

Obviously your decisions are you own, whatever they may be, but I'm sure you recognize that not everyone will agree with you. That said, there are a lot of good site out there that deal specifically with gestation, birthing, and the weaning process. I suggest you look them up and start reading.

My opinion is in the future to make sure your cages are secure before leaving your rats unattended. That, and stop breeding petstore rats, because it's completely unethical. (And, just so you don't misunderstand, I am referring to you letting your friend breed from your buck. Having a littler anywhere that involves your animals means you bred them.)


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## LiLmissJ_01 (Apr 25, 2007)

WOW! I am so glad you are so concerned for the rats. No one even answered a single care question I asked. I didnt ask on how to get rid of the litter or the mom. I asked on how to take care of them and not one of you did. I have had one person be kind enough to me and is willing to answer my questions off post, but its past that point because I figured it out on my own cause like i said, I AM NOT IGNORANT. I am just dissapointed. I asked questions, explained my situation and everyone went on their holy roll and didnt bother with my questions.... they were just more worried about making me feel like I was a fool for accidently making a sizing mistake and telling me that if I dont espay my female I will be the most horrible pet owner in the world because of how I am going to handle getting rid of the litter. I am not a child, I am a 25 year old woman and I will not espay my rat and I do make sure my cages are secure again im not ignorant. I said this once before, I have a vet lined up and some homes already. None of you know me or anything about me so please dont act like you do. You just all failed in my book. You had a chance to do something for the rats by answering a few simple questions, but no, you got on your high horses and covicted me of being guilty of neglegence.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

For your girl...

My experience up to the birth...lots of pics and great advice
http://www.goosemoose.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,118/forum,rat/topic,4009992.0

After the birth, same learning experience, how to deal with mom's and diarrhoea, daily pics of development, issues arrising, proper feeding etc. 
http://www.goosemoose.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,118/forum,rat/topic,4010369.0


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

I take it you didn't look at the sites I linked to in a previous post, which go through pregnancy, birth and care of newborns? They will answer all your questions and more.

Once again:

http://www.worldofrats.com/ROUSBreedingFAQMain.html
http://ratguide.com/breeding/
http://www.boardmanweb.com/rattery/ratbreeding.htm


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Sigh...I saw Kimmie's links and assumed you read them, that is why I didn't bother to offer more answers, because they were all there for the reading.

Kimmie, why do we bother with links?


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

Good question, Shelagh! Sigh.

So many times, answers are clearly found within websites and there's no point in re-hashing the same information. That's why I post links quite often.

If someone isn't going to find these sites on their own (Google is your friend), then the least they can do is read the links we supply them with instead of accusing us of not answering questions!


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## IceLore (May 13, 2007)

LiLmissJ_01 said:


> "You had a chance to do something for the rats by answering a few simple questions, but no, you got on your high horses and covicted me of being guilty of neglegence."


I have never had any of my rats get pregnant, so I'm terribly sorry if you are upset that I didn't spout off birthing information. I did tell you want information to look for though, and other posted the approprate links. What more do you want? And itemized list of what to expect and what you should do? I seriously doubt that you're going to get that. Hopefully you will utilize the time available to you to learn what you need to know.




LiLmissJ_01 said:


> "...and I do make sure my cages are secure again im not ignorant."


I never said that you were ignorant. But, since you've pointed it out (time and time again I might add) obviously you are, that's why you are here, yes? You are ignorant of how to raise babies, so you are here asking questions.

As for you securing your cages, I thought that you said that she got out and into the boys' cage, and that's how she got pregnant. If that is what happened, then obviously you do not secure your cages properly, or she wouldn't have gotten out.




LiLmissJ_01 said:


> "None of you know me or anything about me so please dont act like you do. You just all failed in my book."


No, I do not know you, and I really don't care to. I don't think anyone insinuated any such thing actually. As for "your book," I doubt it has any standards I would feel the need to live up to anyway.



I really hope for your rats' sake that you get your act together, learn what you need to know, and do what is ethically best for the animals in this situation. The information is out there. Go find it. You owe at least that much to your pregnant doe.


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

PLease don't fuss if we don't give you exactly what you're looking for. Most of us here are very aware of the risks of breeding rats and haven't done so. That, and what you're looking for just might not be anywhere in our knowledge.

Next time you don't get the answer you want, take it upon yourself to research for sites that have what you want instead of pissing and moaning to us about how rude we're being by making sure you are fully aware of your mistake.


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## KimmiesGuineas (Jun 14, 2007)

IceLore said:


> LiLmissJ_01 said:
> 
> 
> > "You had a chance to do something for the rats by answering a few simple questions, but no, you got on your high horses and covicted me of being guilty of neglegence."
> ...


*claps and cheers* I don't think anybody can or will say it better. That was amazing!


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i will be locking this topic. the links posted will give you all the information that we could possibly give. all that is left is telling you we haven't been completely rude though some will agree that some people have been harsher then needed and other will claim you need a thicker skin. that is neither here nor there however and all that has already been said in any case. 

i'm sorry you feel that you have been attacked and that you're questions were not answered to your satisfaction. perhaps you just lucked out and posted on a day when everyone was tired, i don't know. but we don't normally offend people and at the very least we don't try to. i hope you stick around and give us updates on the babies when or if they arrive. i'm sure we'd be able to find satisfactory homes for everyone if given some time. 

in any case, this topic is now locked. if you have more specfic questions please start a new topic. if you feel the need to directly respond to another poster that is what PMs are for but please keep it civil (a reminder to all concerned).


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