# rat suddenly jumping/moving forward



## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

my rat ripley has a pituitary tumour and chf and is on furosemide, pimobendan, spironolactone, cabergoline and imidipril. just now he's started jumping randomly/suddenly moving forward/suddenly scrabbling at things. could these be seizures? i don't know what to do. seems to be happening in response to sound maybe? he also moves suddenly if i mess with the base of his tail. he jumps worryingly high. i'm just cuddling him for now, and typing one handed.
any help?? i'm about to call the vet, but idk when they'll get back to me.


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## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

i've put him back in the cage and let his brother join him for a bit. he seems to haver calmed down a little, and isn't 'spasm'ing for now. he started out jumping supper high, which was really worrying, right after i'd fed him some of his mush and cleaned him up a bit. his spasms seemed to start reducing in severity and (i think) they've stopped for now. when i first put him in the cage he lurched forward occassinally as he moved, and seemed to try to squish into a tight area deliberately. now he seems really exhausted from all that.
his vet should call me this evening, and i have an appointment with a different vet tomorrow morning (just my luck, his usual vet isn't in tomorrow).


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Are you able to get a video of this behaviour? Poor laddy, that sounds scary to watch (and experience!).

Good luck at the vets!


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## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

i'll see about getting a video if it starts again, i was too surprised and scared by it earlier to think to film it. i don't want to mess with him too much right now, just letting him rest it off. he jumped a good 10cm or more into the air the first times, and he doesn't have enough energy to do any jumping (willingly) lately so it super surprised me. he's done some of these things to a lesser extent for a few days though. like scrabbling with his hands combined with stiffening/stretching arms (often when refusing food), and suddenly moving forward when he's unhappy with something i'm doing (mostly cleaning him up), but it's never seemed so involuntary or sudden, and never anything like the jumping. i hope he's not/wasn't in pain or anything.


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## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

it just happened again, though less extreme. i managed to get a video of the lurching forward, but not jumping (that happened once before i got out the phone). here:
https://youtu.be/wVAQsfaNUUM


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

I can't tell from the video, is your rat opening his month when lounging forward?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

I am seeing neurological symptoms, I am seeing pituitary tumor actually. they get these stiff front legs they push out over and over, they often will act confused and slow right down, some do this weird jump and skitter around thing like they have been startled. They often act like they are in slow motion or blind. They usually brux more than usual, do funny little head lifts, bump up their head when you stroke firmly over it. Are unable to grasp small hard foot items with their front paws, etc etc.

I have pics if it helps you "see" what I am saying?


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## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

Gribouilli said:


> I can't tell from the video, is your rat opening his month when lounging forward?


no, there's no mouth opening involved, just the moving forwards. as of yet he's never shown signs of open mouth breathing or anything. 



lilspaz68 said:


> I am seeing neurological symptoms, I am seeing pituitary tumor actually. they get these stiff front legs they push out over and over, they often will act confused and slow right down, some do this weird jump and skitter around thing like they have been startled. They often act like they are in slow motion or blind. They usually brux more than usual, do funny little head lifts, bump up their head when you stroke firmly over it. Are unable to grasp small hard foot items with their front paws, etc etc.
> 
> I have pics if it helps you "see" what I am saying?


ah, so this is likely just the pituitary tumour then? he does all of those things, though the jumping and skittering seems to be new. i was fairly sure it was pt, hence him being on cabergoline, but hadn't heard about these symptoms. his cabergoline dose is pretty low though, about 0.011mg twice daily. i'll see if the vet is comfortable increasing it today.


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## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

oh, and he doesn't seem to have done it again since the video, but i was asleep a lot of the night. his appetite is also fine, but it has been slightly less lately anyway.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

When was he put on the Cab? Just to be clear, cabergoline and bromocriptine are AMAZING medications but ONLY work on the most common PT called a prolactinoma. If its a different type of PT, you would need to give steroids instead. Most people use both, oral pred and Cab or bromo.


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## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

he was put on it about 11 days ago. i thought it was helping cause he had a couple of days where he couldn't rest for his arms being outstretched, and wouldn't eat much, but then perked up in terms of appetite and being able to rest normally (about 2 days ago i think) but it is a low dose.
the vet today said the jumping and moving forward could be a side effect of the cabergoline - excitability(?). i can't find any more info about that though. they suggested halving his dose, but I'm wary of doing that as you can imagine. apparently it happens in dogs?
the vet i spoke to about the pt originally said she wouldn't use steroids for him with his heart condition, saying it'd fairly likely lead to a bad infection and could kill him.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

It sounds like its too low for your lad already.

what is your lad on for his heart issues?


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## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

yeah, she was open to increasing his dose before (she has a few doses listed in her formulary), but i imagine less so if she agrees with today's vet that it could be a side effect. i could maybe see if i can email the video for her to see? i should have brought it with me today really.
i feel like here in the uk dosage guidelines might be on the low side for cabergoline, especially since it's only available in 0.05mg/ml concentration, in bottles of 7 and 15ml. i don't even think the medication is available for humans any more.

for the heart condition he's on pimobendan, spironolactone, imidipril and furosemide


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## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

update:
ripley hasn't had any more episodes of this, so not sure what that's about. he's now on one level, and i took two sides out of his litter tray after i saw him fall from the ladder and have difficulty with the tray. his weight is relatively stable, but he's struggling a little more with eating on his own so he was very happy to be syringe fed earlier. i'll try to do this a few times a day, as well as giving him his dishes of food. i'm helping him stay clean with sensitive baby wipes at the moment.
had a call from his very lovely vet today (she'd been away from the practice, then sick, then busy catching up). anyway, from the video she thinks he's looking better than she'd have expected. not certain what caused it since it's not happening any more. she's agreed to an increased dose, and apparently giving it more regularly at lower doses tends to be more effective than less often at higher doses. so the new dose is 0.18ml 3 times daily. that amounts to about 0.018mg/kg 3 times daily.


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## Grotesque (Mar 19, 2014)

Good news! Keep fighting, Ripley!


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## Skyerobin (Mar 31, 2016)

unfortunately ripley had to be put to sleep yesterday. 
starting wednesday evening when he started needing syringe feeding, and me only noticing friday night, his face had started swelling on one side, which was making his eye bulge occasionally. he had an ulcer on his eye, and apparently his mouth was full of them. there seemed to be no other cause but the pt, as there seemed to be nerve involvement. when the vet used something to look in his mouth, it causes them to bleed a bit too. they must've been so painful. he wasn't able to eat anything at that point, and there was nothing else the vet could do for him. i desperately wish there was something more i could've done, and i miss him so very much. i don't know how his brother will cope.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

I am so very sorry


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## Grotesque (Mar 19, 2014)

So sorry. I was really rooting for Ripley.


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