# Young rat being dominant to older rats



## RattieLover1013 (Feb 7, 2017)

So i recently adopted 2 babies. I did the quarantine. Then left there cages near eachother for a week and a half switching hammocks and toys and stuff. I introduced them one on one on neutral grounds then all together. They have played together many times for long periods on time on none neutral ground, the one baby did abit of humping and a few squeaks and such but nothing major. Then i put them in the cage..
Everything goes well at first till the one baby constantly humps all the others. My one older rat doesnt seem to care, but my other girl with a head tilt does not appreciate it. I think she has a hard time boxing and pinning the baby due to her awkwardness due to the head tilt. She ends up getting very agrevated because the baby will literally not leave her alone. Im not sure what i should do?
I have separated them again and leave the cages near eachother and continue to do play time outside of the cage all together.
I wish my other older rat would put the baby in her place but she doesnt seem to care. 
Because of the commotion it gets my other baby very scared and defensive and just escalates the tension in the cage.
Should i do more one on one with my frustrated rat and dominant baby?
Idk please help.
This is a picture of them out of the cage. They were all bruxing too.


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## RattieLover1013 (Feb 7, 2017)

Btw they slept like that in the picture after the fight was escalated to echo (frustrated older rat with the tilt) kept puffy and started attacking becausd baby wouldnt leave her alone. They stayed like that for 2 hours.


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

Are you 100% sure everyone is female? Girls can and do hump each other but just wanna make sure lol
The younger girl could also be in heat, omg some of my girls love to hump when they are in heat. It can just annoy everyone. 

Is your girl with a head tilt being treated for it? if not she needs to see a vet.

I have seen rats pick on sick rats. It may help to separate them until she is all healed up and feeling better. You don;t want added stress while she is not feeling well.


When you put them together in the same cage did you clean the cage first? 
I highly suggest deep cleaning the cage. Really get in there and clean every inch of it hardcore. You want no smell left. Everything in the cage should be deep cleaned as well. 
Leave it slightly bare at first. So no one gets hurt on something.
Do not put any hides inside unless they have two exits so no one gets cornered. 

Do have multiple food dishes and water bottles on different levels/sides of the cage so it lowers tension as well. Multiple beds/hammocks helps too.

The rule though in general is no blood/injury then just let them work it out on their own. 
In this situation with a sick rat I would not suggest that until she is feeling better. But after that I would just let them work it out until they settle it. 

The biggest issue is that a rat doesn't really know good rat social behaviors. They either do not know how to tell the other to back off or the annoying rat doesn't understand what stop it means and it can turn into a fight  In bad cases they just can't work it out. But hopefully they will be able to work it out.


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## RattieLover1013 (Feb 7, 2017)

Yes my rat has been treated she is fine now but has a permanent tilt. It simply disorients her sometimes. Yes i deep cleaned the cage but i did put some item back in the cage (also deep cleaned) yes i am certain they are all girls they are 10-11weeks bow and no balls. There parts look like my other girls parts. I also had sets of water and food.


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## Ckelly765 (Mar 9, 2016)

We've got a similar issue, 2 sets of girls, a year in age apart and one of the younger ones loves picking a fight with the older girls and always has done.
I don't know much about rats as it's my first time keeping them, but as long as there's no bites on each other then they'll work it out and the majority of it is just scuffing.

I used to really think the younger one was antagonizing the older one for ages and was considering separating them - until I saw the older one beating the living whoop out of the younger one at 3am. And despite it all they still use each other as pillows so who knows whats really going on there...

They tend to have a pop at each other atleast once a day - never biting, calm down, and chill out with each other, I think it is just pecking order.
If they do however have bites on them then maybe splitting them up is best if it's just getting worse?


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## RattieLover1013 (Feb 7, 2017)

How long have you had them together? Will they calm down? I just feel bad for my older girl with the head tilt. I think she wants to pin her and tell her off but she physically cant.


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## Ckelly765 (Mar 9, 2016)

All 4 have been living together now for just under a year. The first 2 months were a bit touchy as both the babies ended up with a big bite each on the back but we didn't know who did it, we agreed third bite means they get separated, but they just got on with it. 

Are they all sleeping together in the cage?

It's definitely tricky, as ours have never really calmed down, but as I said you don't know the full side of the story, they could be going at it in the middle of the night and during the day your older one just can't be bothered. How does the other older female act when this is going on? Because ours runs in to break them up usually, which'll usually earn her a back kick from the baby to which she'll just put in her place.
That being said, our baby in question has dodgy eyesight I think, vet couldn't confirm, but there's something just not right there with a rat that'll pick a fight with a shoe, and when she's pursuing our older ones in the living room she'll literally run straight past them and forget what she was doing.

It's never really lessened in terms of her pestering the older ones, but I think they don't mind so much now since they've been together so long.

I'd personally put them all in a cage together and trial it for 2-3 weeks checking daily for any bites, let them have their scraps and check for bites afterwards (Our adults and babies sometimes squeak bloody murder over absolutely nothing)


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## RattieLover1013 (Feb 7, 2017)

My other girl doesn't seem to mind much when the other two get at it. And while being humped sometimes she moves away other times she seem to enjoy the humping (lol) 
The thing is the baby is just so relentless cause she thinks shes alpha. 
When i put them in the cage on trial, do i leave it pretty bare?


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## RattieLover1013 (Feb 7, 2017)

So i left them in freen roam area for 2 hours keeping an ear out. Only one squabble the rest was all little squeaks. Then ended up in a big rat pile again so i deep cleaned the cage again and put them in it leaving it bassically empty. So far theyve been very good


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## Ckelly765 (Mar 9, 2016)

Sorry for the late reply 

Oh exactly, when our biggun' gets chased, sometimes she'll pause and wait for the baby to catch her up, so I do wonder whether it's just a weird game they play, but as long as no ones getting hurt it's all good.
We haven't actually worked out who the Alpha of our cage is, they all seem to have a pop at each other, and sometimes they'll just have days where they're a bit stroppy towards each other and us as well (usually if they're not getting their cheese fix or the cage has been cleaned) 

Yeah, leave bare initially - we did for about 3 or 4 days, then started adding houses slowly every few days checking that no one was getting cornered until the cage was full 

Important thing is not to lose hope, there was tons of times during the introduction process we thought our two pairs wouldn't ever get along and that it was problem after problem, but they will sort it out, you've got to not let your worry get the better of you and trust your rats can handle it between themselves


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## RattieLover1013 (Feb 7, 2017)

Im not as worried anymore since the babies are a good size now. They are atleast 3 months at this point. I left them in the bare cage last night checking up after hearing fight. But the last one was about 2am. Its 10am now and i havent heard anything since. Im home all weekend besides some work hours so i will be able to watch them. Im at a point where i dont get so jumpy when i hear fights anymore. I discovered my one baby is quite the squeaker. Lol ill keep the progress posted.?


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## RattieLover1013 (Feb 7, 2017)

Well theyve been together for 3 days now. Im going to start introducing stuff back into the cage now. The little buggers got board i guess so they chewed giant holes in the fleece i had in there. ?
So far so good tho. They still squeak and do some squabbling at time but the usual stuff. They will all sleep together now and the babies have toned down the humping abit.. lol there so bad i honestly think they see it as a game.


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