# Gathered at the watering hole, and Sophie goes for an unwilling swim xD



## bbtheb235 (Jun 12, 2012)

Poor Alduin!! (the bowl's fish)


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## sarashine (Oct 12, 2012)

XD adorable


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## Caz4500 (Jul 28, 2012)

awwwwww x


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## Csszal (Aug 26, 2012)

I love the picture and your hairless is super adorable. My hairless, Munna, is always trying to get into my fish tank.

Off topic but I was wondering what kind of fish you have in that bowl. Most pet stores tell their customers that betta fish and sometimes even gold fish can live in "bowls" when that isn't the case. Betta fish really need at least a gallon tank with a heater, they are a tropical fish after all. Just information in case you were unaware. I didn't know this when I got mine and she never moved or did very much of anything and when I added her to my 20 gallon she is super active now and one thing I have learned is that Betta fish actually have different personalities just like rats to. My betta will swim to my hand and into it when I am cleaning the tank.


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## Cstaar (Mar 7, 2012)

Hahaha! I love this picture!


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## Drowsy (Oct 23, 2012)

I hate to bust in and break up this thread, as it is very cute!
but I am an avid fish owner (23 fish currently) and I wanted to say you should NEVER let your rats on the fish bowl like that!

It can kill your fish, for one. It can taint the water. And you should never let them drink fish water/use it to groom. them, or any other pets for that matter. There are many illnesses and parasites they could get from doing that. it's /very bad/ for your rat babies.
And again, also for your poor fish.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Aw

Also rats in the wild will sometimes fish, and most fish in fish bowls die quickly due to no water flow. Doesn't look like though there is actually anything in there, just decoration?


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## Drowsy (Oct 23, 2012)

She said there's a fish in there. Probably a betta.
They're fine without water flow, but they need water changes once or twice a week and water heated to 80 degrees. 

And preferably more than a gallon of water...


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## YellowSpork (Jul 7, 2012)

Bettas really do best in at least 5 gallons of water. In the wild they have about ten gallons of territory they defend as theirs in the rice paddies. They need a filter (just to help clean the water; they like as little current as possible) and a heater, and weekly water changes of like 10% or so. No more than 50% usually since it can shock them if too much is changed at once.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

As a life long fish breeder... Mostly exotic killies and having bred bettas; bettas can do just fine in a fish bowl although the larger the better, just do daily partial water changes with aged water and keep the room reasonably warm. The smaller the container the the harder it is to manage the water quality, but bettas are relatively temperature hardy as the shallow waters from which they come fluctuate widely every day as the sun strikes the water and as night and rain falls. 

You would be surprised how many bettas you see in stores were actually raised in plastic dixie cups. Years ago they used to make a perfect little one gallon fish bowl that was wide flat and round, but anything bigger than a 2.5 gal aquarium is absolutely unnessary except perhaps for breeding where you get so many fry that you can pollute the water that is impossible to change because there are so many fry and they are so small. 

When breeding, even then, smaller is better, because the fry are pretty poor at catching the baby brine shrimp and keeping the food concentrated goes to their advantage.

As to goldfish, anything smaller than a pond is cramped for a full grown adult gold fish.

As to the photo... I think it's awfully cute.


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## Drowsy (Oct 23, 2012)

Rat Daddy said:


> As a life long fish breeder... Mostly exotic killies and having bred bettas; bettas can do just fine in a fish bowl although the larger the better, just do daily partial water changes with aged water and keep the room reasonably warm. The smaller the container the the harder it is to manage the water quality, but bettas are relatively temperature hardy as the shallow waters from which they come fluctuate widely every day as the sun strikes the water and as night and rain falls.
> 
> You would be surprised how many bettas you see in stores were actually raised in plastic dixie cups. Years ago they used to make a perfect little one gallon fish bowl that was wide flat and round, but anything bigger than a 2.5 gal aquarium is absolutely unnessary except perhaps for breeding where you get so many fry that you can pollute the water that is impossible to change because there are so many fry and they are so small.
> 
> ...


But.. wh-
no. When it comes to fry once they reach over a week you have to separate them because they produce a growth stunting hormone that will stunt the growth of the fry around them.
And temperature fluctuations stress bettas out and bring on stress striping. They need a heater, they really do. Keeping a room 'reasonably warm' isn't sufficient at all. If you kept that room at eighty degrees that water would be as low as 75. My bedroom stays 74 degrees and my water in my goldfish tank always reads as 70. And it fluctuates night or day. That is the worst advice you can give someone.
You're right, they really do fine in a one gallon bowl or larger, but five gallons certainly isn't 'unnecessary'. I have a crowntail on the small side in a five gallon tank and he makes it look almost too small, and he isn't even as large as my dumbo plakat. Who is in a thirty gallon (granted with other fish, platies, pleco, etc)

I'm not sure when you started breeding but your information seems sadly outdated to me.
Because those bettas in the pet stores were raised in plastic dixie cups they never reach the true size they should. Condoning the way bettas are bred for pet stores is like saying the goldfish come from good breeders, too. It's pretty ridiculous.
I've seen people raise proper bettas, and even fry from pet stores that they sell now far too small, and seen the size that they can attain without being stuck in those tiny cups for prolonged periods of time.

you are correct about goldfish. They really need a pond or 100+ gallons of tank (I have both) depending on the number of fish, yes.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

With 30 + aquariums, and plastic shoe boxes full of fry aquarium space for a breeder was always at a premium... 

Mostly with betas, I just kept lots of aged water at room temp to do daily 50% water changes they seemed to grow fine. Mostly the best growth food I found was black mosquito larvae... Just leave some water out in the yard and toss in some grass trimmings and you got lots of free beta food or just collect them out of your dapnia pond. Save some egg rafts for winter.

As to temps, they gets pretty inactive when it gets too cold, but I never really had any issues in a room with central heat. If you ever go to a shallow marsh, you'll find that the water temps fluctuate widely every day, for the most part I don't worry much about temps for shallow water fish like betas or many annual killies. On the other hand with salt water fish or deep water fish, I made water temps a priority.

But a 30 gallon aquarium, with a heater should work a treat as long as there's no current. As to other fish... I haven't done a community tank in twenty years and for the most part don't recommend them, so it would seem like a lot of room for a single small fish that doesn't swim very well. Without the benefit of central heating, I'd likely do a 2.5, 3 or 5 gal tank with a heater and a corner filter with floss and lava rock that way I could get lazy on water changes. Size buys time, stablizes water conditions and allows for benign neglect. 

As to how long I've been doing fish... about half my aquariums still have stainless steel frames.


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## Drowsy (Oct 23, 2012)

Rat Daddy said:


> With 30 + aquariums, and plastic shoe boxes full of fry aquarium space for a breeder was always at a premium...
> 
> Mostly with betas, I just kept lots of aged water at room temp to do daily 50% water changes they seemed to grow fine. Mostly the best growth food I found was black mosquito larvae... Just leave some water out in the yard and toss in some grass trimmings and you got lots of free beta food or just collect them out of your dapnia pond. Save some egg rafts for winter.
> 
> ...


I can... tell. Yes I can very much tell.
The information you are providing is quite outdated.
'I've never had an issue' is not really good advice at all? 

And not to mention that just a simple google search on the proper, updated care of bettas says you MUST have a heater because the fluctuations can be stressful and lead to underlying conditions. As well as talking to any decent betta breeder.

also bettas do excellently in community tanks. I have mine in a tank with platies, loaches and plecos. They do very well with larger varieties of shrimp, as they are commonly kept.
you can't 'get lazy' with the water changes, either. It has to be once or twice a week, 25%.
And heater with no... current? that makes little to no sense. Most people suggest you put the heater directly under the filter intake to spread the warmth throughout the tank.

What you are forgetting is bettas are highly bred to appear how they are now. their former selves look nothing like them. It is like comparing a fancy goldfish to a carp.
Wild bettas are short finned, dull colored, and hardier. and they live probably a couple of years in the wild due to the conditions. That is like saying you can feed a pug what you feed a wolf.
I'd be interested to see pictures of your breeding stock, the fish you have produced, and your holding tanks. 

all in all you are giving conflicting and quite outdated information. I think that you really need to update your knowledge. 
Part of being a breeder/owner is continually taking in the new information provided through trials of others.

This might prove helpful to you:
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Properly-Care-for-a-Betta-Fish/step2/Betta-Essentials/


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

As much as I agree that bettas do not belong in unfiltrated/unheated bowls, if you guys want to continue to discuss fish keeping, may I suggest you move it to PMs or its own thread? It was not the original topic of this thread and you are derailing it with your discussions.

Jag


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## Drowsy (Oct 23, 2012)

Very sorry! I am obviously too passionate about fish and will watch this doesn't happen again. c:


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

LOL, not to worry... we're actually not arguing, it's just the way tropical fish people interact... unlike rat folks, it's usually impolite to agree on much of anything.

But it's off topic never the less.


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