# Suebee's Grain Mix?



## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

Is Suebee's Grain Mix an appropriate staple?
I was going to go with Harlan Teklad, but the breeder I just adopted my new baby from told me that it reduces your rat's life span 50%...
I was wondering if the Suebee's Grain Mix would be an appropriate staple for my boys?
Or is there another Mix (with instructions) that I should use instead that is better?

ALSO have any of you heard anything about male rats being born with only one testicle?
My new boy, Milo, only has one. I read somewhere that this could cause cancer if he's not neutered.
Does anyone know anything about this, or if its true or not?


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Suebee's, specifically, is not designed to be a staple. It is designed to be 50% of a rat's diet with the other 50% coming from lab blocks.

I've heard the same about Harlan Teklad blocks and I have a few concerns about Oxbow Regal Rat to the point where I have not bought any and don't necessarily plan to.

Personally, I am in the process of tweaking grain mix recipes from around the web to be more suitable as a staple, because I am not comfortable with any of the blocks available on the market. 

If I wouldn't eat it myself, I'm not feeding it to my animals. That's the rule I go by.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

It's been too long since my post for it to allow me to edit and add more, apparently, so I'll continue here.

It might seem like common sense, but this puts even more importance on fresh vegetables and *greens*, LOTS of greens, being fed every day alongside any dry foods you've chosen. Fresh is great, but frozen is fine, for the sake of convenience if that is an issue. You can buy a lot of different frozen vegetables to offer and freeze your own greens. Most rats won't mind.


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## Siringo (May 7, 2012)

Oxbow Regal Rat looks to be the best staple out there for rats at least 4 months of age, from what I've heard. A grain mix would only be suitable half of the time.


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## shawnalaufer (Aug 21, 2011)

I used to use the Suebee grain mix but had some chunky rats. And while fat squishy rats are super cuddly, I was concerned for their health. So I altered the 'recipe' which can be found on my blog. Its only a supplement, keep in mind. 
I now add dehydrated kale leaves in my homemade mix.


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## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

definitely the most difficult part about rats... lolol.
so i should use a grain mix with greens? with no lab blocks? 
@[email protected]


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## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

Also, where do you go to find all these grain mixes? How much does the cost normally range?
Do they sell them at Publix/Walmart?


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## Flashygrrl (Feb 8, 2012)

Feeding a lab block as a staple is safe than trying to cover all the bases with the grain mix and feeding fresh (though you should feed some fresh anyways). No matter how hard you try, you will have an imbalance somewhere in that plan. What are the concerns with the Oxbow? Mine love it and it's got a lot lower protein than most do.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

If you are looking for a grain mix in a store that will cover what you're missing out of lab blocks and ensuring that every bit is eaten and every ingredient is high quality, you won't find it. I am talking about homemade mixes made from whole, organic foods. (Shawna is referring to these as well.)

_Most_ people will tell you that you absolutely need lab blocks. For _most_ people, this does just fine as they may be too busy or too inconvenienced to stock and feed everything that the ratties need. However, there are exceptions to every rule.

Selective eating is usually a concern for lab block fans. Sometimes, you have rats that DO eat everything in their mixes and everything on their veggie plate. They certainly have an order in which they prefer to eat them, but at the end of the day (as long as you feed an appropriate amount), it's all gone. And not in the bedding, either.

As for my issues with Oxbow RR, it's got nothing to do with rats loving it and the protein levels. Rats love potato chips and they have lower protein levels than most rat foods. This isn't the only thing I look at. Now, keep in mind that Oxbow seems to be the best commercial diet out there, but...

On the back of the bag, you'll notice that fish meal is their source of animal proteins. You will not, however, notice Ethoxyquin, which is a preservative that the US Coast Guard regulates as mandatory for all fish meal not being used to manufacture food for human consumption. It is not a requirement to list this preservative on the ingredients list, because it's not something that the manufacturer puts in the fish meal. It's there when the manufacturer receives it. You can look up the effects of Ethoxyquin for yourself to decide whether or not you are going to feed it to your animals. I will not. (There is also always the possibility of mercury contamination with fish meal.)

Another concern of mine is called Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex. This is otherwise known as synthetic Vitamin K. Processed pet foods rely on additives to make them a "complete" diet, and they will always find the most inexpensive way to do so. Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex is NOT permitted in human foods, as it has led to permanent damage and even death in humans. You can look this up as well. Given the choice between MSBC as a source of vitamin K and leafy greens, I will choose leafy greens every time.

All of this is considered without butting my personal opinion about processed foods into the matter. Nutrients are lost in the process and must be placed back into the food, usually as synthetic additives. This is convenient for most people, but choosing to allow your animals to consume these things is a matter of personal decision. Given the choice between whole, fresh foods without additives and processed, baked and extruded nuggets of additives, I'll choose whole and fresh foods every time.

The choice is yours, and I don't judge people that make either choice. I've visited plenty of animal forums where nearly everyone exclaims that if you're not feeding lab blocks, pellets, kibbles, etc, you're doing it wrong. A lot of people don't have the time and/or patience to feed the necessary variety of whole and fresh foods to their animals to make a complete diet. This does NOT mean that it is the wrong choice. You either have the time and patience, or you don't.

So, there you have it. The information is out there for you and you need to make a choice for yourself.

But, like I said, if you are looking for a complete diet off of a shelf, your only choice is the lab blocks. You cannot and will not be able to find a bagged mix that has everything you need.


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## shawnalaufer (Aug 21, 2011)

Oh yes, I should have said I use a grain/cereal/seed mix as a supplement to my lab block (I use Oxbow Regal Rat). I wouldnt give too many greens as they can give your rat diarrhea. I am not sure how much kale it was that I dehydrated, but once it was shriveled down some, it make about 2 cups and I mixed it in their grain/cereal/seed mix. 

I bought all my grain/seed/cereal ingredients at a health food store, I think only the brown rice was un-organic.Everything else was.


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## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

Woah, thank you so much cagedbird. That was so much good info!!!

I think I'm going to start off with the Suebee's mix and buy some Regal Rat... I'm a college student, so of course I'm tight on money. I try to give my boys as much fruits and veggies as possible in addition to their crappy store bought mix (don't kill me, I was just waiting for my Harlan to come in!). I might switch over to the mix on your blog, Shawna, but I feel like those items will be really expensive and hard to find!!! I'll see how this goes, and then tweak as I feel necessary. You guys were EXTREMELY helpful and no doubt I'll be visiting this thread time and time again =]


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

You're welcome, Aang.

I always encourage people to never just take what I say, or anyone else says, and just run with it. Researching foods and ingredients for yourself is always a good plan. The more you know, the better. The information is out there. The bad stuff can be hidden quite well, but it's out there. I got my information when looking into Oxbow RR for myself after hearing how many people endorse it. I choose against it, but that's my personal decision.

No one is gonna, or should, come after you for your decision! Only you can decide what's right for you and your animals. Time and money are definite constraints to be worked around. Just find what works for you and puts your mind at ease.

P.S.: Those ingredients aren't as expensive as you may think! Do a search for health food or bulk stores in your area and go take a visit. You might be in for a surprise! Shawna's recipe, for example, makes a TON of food! Each ingredient that she lists is no more than a few dollars per bag in my area. I think I spent about 20 dollars getting almost all of those things (some of which came in bags that will make multiple batches, but others I was able to choose how much I wanted from a bin), plus a few more dollars on things from other recipes around the web that I wanted to add/change. I think that the total price per pound is very close to what you pay for blocks.


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## shawnalaufer (Aug 21, 2011)

Nope, it wasn't expensive at all! I think the whole thing cost me about $8 maximum. I thought it was going to be expensive too but was pleasantly surprised! Next time I go I might splurge and get them a special treat like the goji berries (I think that is what they are called). I will be sure to do another blog entry or video when I do


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Haha, Shawna posted as I was editing my post to say what I paid for ingredients. 8 dollars per batch sounds about right because my kitchen table is absolutely full of ingredients still. I could easily make another batch or more with what I have, and I got more of other ingredients as well.


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## aang (Feb 7, 2012)

Haha woah thats not bad that. When I hear 'organic', all I see are $$$ floating around haha. I'll definitely check! I know Publix has that area where you can pull a lever and bag however much grain you want, but I don't think I've ever really looked at prices. Thank you so much guys, I really appreciate it =]! When I get the chance I'll definitely start researching stuff. The way I see it is is that I live in America, and I eat McDonalds (not often, but I do!). If I don't die from occasionally eating McDonald's food, I think my rats will be able to live healthily even if they eat a few not-so-healthy things. Not that great of an outlook, but hey, it's kind of true lmao


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