# Need advice--should I get another rat?



## Annahra (Apr 7, 2011)

Last weekend I was shopping in a local pet store that partners with a rescue to offer animals for adoption. They always have cats and dogs, but I was surprised to see a big male rat who really caught my eye. He was up for adoption because he had an "overactive tear duct" and so always has porphyrin visible around his eye. I had mice in college and had always wanted a rat, so I went home and talked to my boyfriend and ended up going back yesterday to get the little guy (we named him Fibonacci "Fib"). I thought rats were essentially larger, smarter mice so I felt well-prepared to take care of him. I did some more reading after I got home and unfortunately found out that unlike male mice, all rats should have companions. Now, I have no problems adding on to the cage and convincing the boyfriend that Fib needs a buddy, but I have two concerns. The first is he is a large, unneutered male, so would he even accept another male? He's been housed by himself for a month or so. My other concern is that even though the vet diagnosed his problem as non-infectious and he's gone through a few courses of antibiotics, it seems very similar to a problem I had with a cat who had chronic herpes infections of the eye. Basically, would I be risking a healthy rat by exposing it to Fib? He has no other symptoms of chronic URI, but the eye alone makes me cautious. 

Also I've read so much on here in the past day or so about adopting rats or getting them from a breeder, but in several hours of Googling I haven't been able to find a single active rescue or breeder within a few hours' drive of St. Louis (or Columbia, SC where I will be visiting next month). Any suggestions on how to actually go about finding another compatible rat if I do try to add one? I mean, in all honesty, if I were a reputable breeder, I wouldn't give me a rat to put with one who has chronic health issues. 

Thanks in advance for any advice!


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## Scuff (Apr 1, 2011)

Rats don't absolutely have to have a companion, but unless you're willing and able to give them a metric ton of affection and attention each day, you're better off getting another one.

That being said, introducing a new rat to an adult, un-neutered male is probably going to be an uphill battle. I'd recommend reading this thread:

http://www.ratforum.com/index.php/topic,21116.0.html

To get you started on how to do it.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

a metric ton of human affection is perhaps a teaspoon of rat affection... it is definitely within his best interests to get him a companion. adult unaltered introductions, especially males, can be tough... but it depends on the individual rat's demeanor. you will have best luck introducing him to a young baby male, or a spayed female.

it depends on what the root of his eye condition is. very rarely are infections like that contagious, and it doesn't sound to me like it is, especially if the vet has cleared it. you might want to see if you can get him to a vet for a last try on some combination antibiotics to see if you can get it cleared up.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Dang, I made a very long post and for some reason it didn't work. Poot.

Basically, I just said that many people here have males living together, including me. I have two who are also living with an altered female. I have never seen them fight and one of them has some agression trouble, so that says something about them. It can be a pain to introduce them but they are happier in the end. If you get him a companion, most adult rats take better to babies than to other adults, so it might be a good idea to get him a baby or two to keep him company.

Just be patient with the introductions, and it should go fine.

Scuff, rats NEED other rats. Only very rarely can they ever happily live alone. It's like locking a human in a cell with a cat forever. They will go crazy from lack of thier own kind.

Also, my most recent introduction was crazy easy for me. I was introducing two unaltered, mature males to a young female. Other than some pinning over dominance, they liked her right away. It is possible and usually not too difficult to introduce adult males to younger rats or even rats of similar age, especially if they are alone- they will desire company.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

Yep, he needs a pal.
I have SEVEN unaltered males together! And I had them in 2 groups. I had to bond 2 groups of un altered males and guess what. It was easy! xD My example is not the majority, but is is very possible.

I HIGHLY recommend finding or getting a spayed female, they make for the easiest intros with intact males. I have a spayed girl with an unaltered boy and they got along IMMEDIATLY lol it was great.


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## wheeljack (Mar 17, 2011)

I currently have 13 unaltered males living together and have had groups of 7+ intact boys in the past.
Patience is sometimes needed with older boys, but more often then not they can be introed.

Since you aren't aware of any rescues in your area to find him a friend my advice would be to contact your local Petco and Petsmart and see if they have rats for adoption (not for sale!). Petsmart will adopt out rats deemed unsellable (generally for minor health issues), but they keep them in the back room and you generally need to ask about them.
PetCo will take in owner surrenders in addition to their own unsellable stock. All the Petco's in my city keep the adoptables on the floor so they're easy to see. Petco does charge $5 to deter people looking for free snake food, but the money goes to their charities and not to the store itself.

It was already said but bears repeating, rats do absolutely need a companion except in very rare circumstances and only after all other options have been exhausted.


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## Scuff (Apr 1, 2011)

Sorry guys, but I'm going to have to still disagree with you. I've seen many rats that lived alone that had no behavioral issues whatsoever, and lived the full term of their lives without ever developing anything. It helped that these rats were intensely spoiled and spent countless hours every day with their human interacting and getting affection. People need to start reading the tone of my posts a little closer instead of immediately assuming that I'm just saying something without a caveat.

I still stand by my belief: A rat can live alone, provided it's given hours and hours of attention each day. I don't recommend it, and it's easier to just get it a friend, but it can still be done.


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## wheeljack (Mar 17, 2011)

Scuff,

Large difference between living and thriving. Those rats easily could have had stress related issues that you simply weren't able to detect. There is a wealth of scientific, medical and anecdotal evidence in favor of not keeping a single rat. The only proponents of keeping single rats that I generally see are owners who ignore the previously mentioned evidence and insist they are an adequate companionship for their rat.

It is irresponsible to recommend keeping ANY highly social animal alone--with the exception of a dog (separate issue) period. If you are going to recommend it you need to make your caveats crystal clear so new rat owners are aware that what you are recommending is not the norm.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

wheeljack said:


> Scuff,
> 
> Large difference between living and thriving. Those rats easily could have had stress related issues that you simply weren't able to detect. There is a wealth of scientific, medical and anecdotal evidence in favor of not keeping a single rat. The only proponents of keeping single rats that I generally see are owners who ignore the previously mentioned evidence and insist they are an adequate companionship for their rat.
> 
> It is irresponsible to recommend keeping ANY highly social animal alone--with the exception of a dog (separate issue) period. If you are going to recommend it you need to make your caveats crystal clear so new rat owners are aware that what you are recommending is not the norm.


+1, I could not have said it better myself.


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## Butterfly_HyJynx (Mar 14, 2010)

I've technically only had one group of male rats the last few years - as the elders start to die out I bring in some carefully selected newbies to keep the remaining oldies company during their golden months - so introducing an older rat to another certainly isn't impossible if you do your research. I'd say check your local humane societies, I too live in a place with no rat-specific rescues or breeders and almost always end up adopting from HAWS or what-have-you.

I in fact did once have a rat who needed (in his opinion) to be alone, Jasper was almost killed by his littermates at a petshop at 4 months of age and once he recovered physically was put up for adoption by the store as a "special-needs" rat. Despite my best efforts at introducing him to my other boys he never got over the mental trauma - no matter how slowly I worked the intro he was always nervous, shy, and fearful-aggressive. I compensated the best I could by letting him out for hours on end (He tagged along with me all through the house, he didn't even trust many people besides me.), but it absolutely was not an ideal situation. Rats need rats, I say go find Fib a buddy and he'll thank you forever.


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## ratjes (Mar 26, 2011)

A lone rat is just as sad as any other isolated social animal. 
Scuff, it would like you by yourself adopted by some aliens, being put in a cage but often taken out on their shoulders every day for hours and they would enjoying each other and being content on how happy you were; you would be eating, keeping yourself clean, eager for their company due to lack of your own kind. 
But inside you'd be miserable. They don't speak your language, don't share the same interests or have company 24/7.
I hope the moderators remove bad advice for new rat owners.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Scuff, My male, Romeo, lived alone for six months due to the passing of our other rat. My mother would not permit a new one. At first, he was a bouncy little baby, hyper and playful. Gradually, though, he became less interested in the world. He stayed in the corner of his cage and he started to look ragged, his fur rough. He was depressed, and began to waste away. Even as young as he was, he wouldn't play much, though he did wrestle with my hands a lot. 

I convinced my father to take me to get another rat. He saw Romeo's condition, and agreed he needed a friend, so I went and got my other male, Snitch. He was just a baby but within a week they were sharing the same hiding spots. Romeo gained weight, his fur was shiny and he was much happier. I still have them both, and they are great friends.

I also recently rescued a female. When I got her, I was told she was a lap-rat and would snuggle with people and loved people. She was in bad shape, eating puppy food and in a tank. She did snuggle, she was less energetic than most girls and just sat on laps mostly. I had her fixed, and put her with my males. She opened up and is a very friendly, energetic and hyper, like she should be.

It is not fair or right to keep rats alone and you should not advocate it.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

come off it guys, this doesn't need to get personal.

any further off topic/flame posts will be deleted and their posters dealt with accordingly.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

Did you delete my posts? I had 2 things, and they are both gone ???


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

There was no flaming either, just opinions.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

all i'm asking is we stay on the original topic and not start poking and prodding at eachother. our common goal is to help and give advice for the best of the rat in question, and fighting is not at all constructive towards that goal.

everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs, and every argument and disagreement was backed up with adequate information. while there are certain instances where a rat might need to be kept alone, this is not one of them, nor should it be advised as such.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

+1

But still, were my posts delete? xD It was nothing bad.

And IF a male is showing severe hormonal aggression and needs to be kept alone, a neuter is in order. IF after a neuter the rat is STILL aggressive and rat violent. That to me is the only acceptable situation for a lone rat.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

they were irrelivant as the post they were in reply to was deleted for violation of the rules.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

Grr. Tell me before doing that :/

Oh well.

I think the OP got the Answers they needed anyway.


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## Annahra (Apr 7, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the advice! I talked to my boyfriend and he did his own research and said he would be okay with me getting a second rat (he already seems to really like Fib). Gonna let the credit card statement roll over before I invest in a bigger cage and then we'll see about adding another guy. In the meantime, if anyone knows of any rat rescues in the St. Louis area (willing to drive an hour or so in any direction), please let me know. We'll be driving from here to Columbia, SC in May so Illinois/Kentucky/Tennessee/North Carolina are all options too as we could pick up an addition on the way home. I would love to find a spayed female as that seems like it would be the easiest addition.


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