# Rat biting hard during play time



## NuttyMuffins (Sep 23, 2016)

Hi guys! I'm still relatively new here, but you may have seen me write about my girls, Abigail and Piper. Abigail and Piper have always gotten along for the most part, Piper beats up on Abigail every now and then though. Not often, I'd say maybe once every other day at most. But this is also more recent behavior. Piper used to do this when I introduced them but it had only been a couple times. What intrigues me is Piper is an absolute scaredy cat. She is far more likely to become scared or jump at something than Abigail is, as well as more likely to stay in the corner of her cage when I'm around whereas Abigail is always right next to the cage door trying to figure out who's there and what they're doing. And most of the time the two are the best of buddies, but like I said, every now and then I hear Piper beating up on Abigail. I know that its more than just playing because I'll hear Abigail squeak and there will be lots of rustling and chasing and it's clear its not being reciprocated. In any case, Piper never had a problem with me but she's beginning to do the same with me. (Keep in mind they are also entering their "teenage years" so maybe Piper is just that snotty brat you wish would just grow up? They are both just over 3 months old now)

I usually feed them treats by hand and occasionally I would get a little finger nibble until they realized my finger wasn't a treat, never hard enough to make me think that either of them wanted to bite me and certainly never enough to hurt. I could barely feel it honestly. But one day when I had my hand just playing with them in the cage Piper came up and bit me. Again, not real hard but enough to startle me, and break the surface layer of skin. It caught me off guard but I took it as an honest mistake on Piper's part, until she did it again just a couple minutes later. It's almost like a switch went off, since then she has been more aggressive, towards me and towards Abigail as well. I don't think its to the point where I need to separate them, but I definitely need to try and fix either her behavior or mine. Somebody is doing something wrong, I just don't know who and what.  
This is only an issue when I put my hand in the cage to play with them. Never outside of the cage. But it's getting to the point where I need to be extremely careful if I'm putting my hand in the cage. It's not only when I approach her with my hand too, she has lunged at my hand while I've been either moving something or playing with Abigail. And within the past week she has bitten me three times hard enough to draw blood. And I've never had her be hostile towards me when I'm handling food. If I put treats in my hand and put my hand in the cage, she is very gentle and has never bitten me. But take the food away and shes vicious. I notice it's more of an issue when I begin playing with them in the cage, she it much more likely to bite if shes riled up. So is she just a rough rat, trying to prove a point? Or a scared rat trying to prove a point? Is there anything I can do differently? I thought I used to be able to read them and what they wanted so well until now. I'm at a loss... From all that I can tell, I haven't change how I interact with them at all, so I don't even know if it's something I'm doing. Anybody have any ideas? 

Thank you so much! Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to make sure I got all the information that might be helpful out there. She used to be such a sweetheart, I don't know what happened or changed. Hoping it's just a snotty teenage phase and she'll grow out of it. Again, thank you everybody! Any thoughts, opinions, or tips are very appreciated!!


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## Heyyouguys (Jun 19, 2016)

Not sure much of what I say is going to help much as I'm fairly new to rats and I have boys, but here's a few ideas  

I know rats can breed from a super young age but that guy rats have a hormonal peak way past the 5 week mark... maybe your girl is having a crazy hormonal surge and that's why she's being agressive? It sounds like it's mainly territorial if she only does it when you're in her cage, and if you don't have food. If you have food then you're not a threat, but without food you're just an invader to her. I'm taking a real stab in the dark here but maybe she has territory issues when she's in heat and that's why she beats up your other girl every few days? Maybe it's only during her heat cycles?

Are your girls spayed? I have absolutely not one idea if this would help with agressive so I'm just chucking ideas out. If they aren't, you could ask someone if a spay might help. 
When she bites you, do you remove your hand... because that will be positive reinforcement for her - bite=threat to territory leaves - maybe do a deep clean on the cage more often to keep her scent down so it's not too much her space? Maybe put one of your worn old tops in with them so that your scent is very present in their home. And make sure you talk all the time when in the cage too so they know it's you and nor an alien invader.

Just a few ideas as to why she might be a bit antsy, but I haven't dealt with agression myself and I'm sure it sucks big time to be bitten hard so it's easy for me to say 'don't take your hand away/stop touching her as much' but I'm sure it's scary when she chomps on your fingers and that practice seems counter intuitive haha. 
Hopefully someone else who has dealt with this kind of thing before can offer more practical help.
Good luck


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## [email protected] (Nov 26, 2016)

Hey there!
Heyyouguys raised some good points about being territorial and how to change it. I agree with cleaning the cage often to minimize Piper's smell and also with adding a worn tshirt to the cage or something that was on you for the whole day. I used to put a fleece hammock under my clothes and kept it there for the day and during night and then used it in the cage.

When rats reach a certain age, call it puberty, they start to test their boundaries. It is very important that in these times you remain the "alpha" for them and no matter what the relations are in the cage, you are still the main boss of all.

As heyyouguys mentioned, it is important for your hand not to leave the cage the moment Piper bites you as that will only encourage her to do it again. Instead, you should turn her on her back and keep her like that for a second or a few. This is a clear sign that you are stronger/dominant and she needs to obey.

It's certainly easier said than done, esp. since it's always a shock when the bites come, but do try to do this.

Also, turn them both on their backs when they are outside of the cage. This doesnt have to be all the time, but once a day or so, esp. during this age. Make it a part of a game, ever so sudden, that they won't even realise what you are doing, but you'll get your point across.

Some rats are ok to be messed around with and turned on their back no problem, while others just hate it and will do anything to avoid it. I had both. One of my rats would gladly lay in my hands on her back and lick my nose while I was kissing her belly 
Another one though would fight me and twist and turn to get away, even when I turned her upside down as a part of a game. I had to use a different technique and more force to keep her on her back for a few seconds. Be careful not to hurt them tho 

They are way too young to be messing around with you and you need to get your point about being the alpha across. Don't just turn Piper on her back though, do the same with Abigail so they are equal and you are not favoritizing either of them.

Also, try to have your hands clean when approaching them. Doubt that this would be the case but maybe she smelled something on you that made her uneasy? New soap? Different cream than usual?

Having them spayed would certainly not help, in my opinion. Sometimes male rats' hormonal levels get too high which causes aggression, but I have never heard of such thing with females. They are simply testing their boundaries (might be stronger if in season) and all you need to do is show them you're the dominant female in this family.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes


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## Andromeda (Apr 28, 2016)

I agree that her aggression is almost definitely territorial, however I would not recommend the flip method. It's a lot like 'dominance training' in dogs, and anyone who's done their research knows that using aggressive/dominant training methods with any animal almost always does more harm than good.

First of all, you're a lot bigger than her, and could pretty easily accidentally hurt her doing that. Secondly, it will most likely just freak her out, potentially making things worse between you two.

I would recommend going out and buying some good thick gloves, and wear those when you put your hand in the cage. That way, when Abigail bites you, you can keep your hand in the cage. A couple times a day, just stick your hand in the cage and leave it there until Abigail stops attacking your hand and ignores it.


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## NuttyMuffins (Sep 23, 2016)

Lost internet for a few days, but thank you so much for the advise and explanations everybody!!!


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