# Can't tell if rat has gone into heat



## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

So, last Sunday while I was out state for the three day weekend, my rat Lulu managed to get into the boy's cage for "less than 5 minutes", in the exact words of my boyfriend who opted to stay home and agreed to clean my DCN that day. Although I'm under the impression that she wasn't in heat at the time given the boys' behavior towards her, I've been checking her every day for the last 5 days to see if she has gone into heat. She is the type of rat that hides being in heat really well, in fact I can never tell when she is. The only female of of my four that shows obvious heat behavior is my hairless girl, Twitch.

So moreso than the behavioral signs, I've been looking for the physical ones, the whole gaping purple vagina thing vs a closed pink vagina when a female rat is not in heat...I can honestly say that it has pretty much looked closed and pink every day. However, I also have a hard time really seeing because the fur kind of hides it. Should a rat's vagina be very obviously different on the day that she's in heat, or can that be subtle as well? She also hasn't been behaving any differently than normal from what I can tell. The only thing I've noticed is that she's been sleeping by herself more often recently, but she acts exactly the same towards me. Don't most females start acting differently if they're pregnant? Any advice is appreciated.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I've never had a purple vagina. My girl's just looks "open". She doesn't act different or anything.

As for acting different, my reserved lazy rat got more active. Nothing more.


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## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

Hmm...should I buy one of those food scales and start weighing her to see if she gains weight? I'm really hoping I'm just being paranoid but if she really did somehow get pregnant, I want to at least be prepared for it.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

When I said "I've never had..." I meant I never saw my girl's go purple. Just trying to make that sentence less awkward.

Anyway. I chose not to weigh my girl because I'd likely never use the scale again. Pregnant rats also have days of no weight gain or even weight loss so I was pretty sure I'd never be able to tell if she was growing or was pregnant. This is especially true if you are precautionarily pumping her full of protein.
It's been almost a week, one option is to take her to the vet next week (when she is closer to two weeks) because they can sort out real quick yea or nay. I did it in the 2nd week because I _still_ couldn't really tell what was going on. My girl began nesting like mad but otherwise looked normal. When she was about five days before due date I finally saw the "I-swallowed-a-ball" look.


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## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

Haha, well thanks for clearing up the purple vagina thing! That's actually pretty hilarious, I didn't even read it that way until you mentioned it.

I haven't been feeding her any extra protein than normal but now I'm wondering if I should as a precautionary measure. I think I may wait a few more days to see if anything seems out of place or see if she starts acting generally "off" to me, and if she does I'll take her to the vet. Thanks for your advice.


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## rattie-love-247 (Jul 9, 2013)

you'll KNOW your rat is pregnant in about a week & a half, about midway through, she'll start bulking up in her belly. i've never seen gaping purple vaginas either, just open. rats go into heat every 4-5 days & since they're nocturnal creatures thats gonna be more apparent at night most likely. If you wanna do a scale thats a great method for tracking weight, keep a written log so you can see any changes. If you see a steady gain with no losses & your not giving her extra foodstuff's beyong her regular diet, she's likely pregnant. I'd say keep checking for an open vagina every night in the next week & if you see an open vagina you'll know she's NOT pregnant cuz once they're pregnant their 4-5 cycles stop.


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## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

Maybe I'll get a scale after all, I can always use it for food stuff after disinfecting it. I've thought about getting one for awhile for dieting, except I can never stick with a diet long enough to justify getting one. XD And a scale would be a lot less expensive than a trip to the vet. I think I'll pick one up on my way home from work tomorrow.

I've been checking for her for being in heat and still haven't noticed a difference. I've been checking her cagemates too, just to compare and see if any of them look the way they're "supposed to" when they're in heat. Twitch is actually in heat tonight and she's the easiest one to really look at since she's hairless. I guess she looks "open" but honestly it's still not that different than usual? I think I'm just really bad at this since I've never really tried to check out a rat's ladyparts before now. Anyway, I think weighing her every day is probably going to be my best bet.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Am I correct in that your females are kept above your males? What are the ages of the two genders and how long have you had both in that set-up?

I ask because females who aren't exposed to male pheromones? sometimes don't go into heat.


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## rattie-love-247 (Jul 9, 2013)

get a scale that can measure in grams since rats dont all weigh correctly in pounds & grams is easier to go by.

I've never heard about females not going into heat unless exposed to males pheremones :/


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## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

The females are usually kept above the males, yes. However, Michael put the girls on the bottom and the boys on the top when he cleaned the cage. Not that that should really matter as far as pheromones go, I don't think. I've had all the rats in this setup since the end of May of this year. I used to switch the boys and the girls on and off between the top and bottom levels, which worked for awhile as I had a piece of cardboard shoved under the tray with the hole in it so no rats could escape, but eventually the girl rats figured out they were strong enough to push the edges of the cardboard and move it out of the way enough to expose the grating. It took Lulu escaping three times for me to figure out how she was doing it. That's when I decided to use the chin-chiller granite slab in place of the cardboard, and I moved the boys to the bottom level permanently. I can't remember exactly when I permanently moved them, it was sometime in July maybe?

My two oldest males Poopy and Fluff just turned a year old yesterday, and the two younger males are about 9 weeks old. All four female rats are about 6 months old.

I did end up getting a scale, Walmart seemed to be the only place that had one, and I've been measuring in ounces since I haven't looked at this post again until today -_-...that being said, Lulu has been gaining weight over the last three days. I haven't weighed her yet today because she's been sleeping in a tube where I can't reach her. But I am still pretty worried. She's been sporadically sleeping a lot, but it hasn't been every day. I've been supplementing her with extra protein just in case, and I'm not sure if that's what causing the weight gain or not. I've been giving her pieces of thin sliced deli turkey and these veggie chip dog treats made with spinach and potatoes, as well as Oxbow for young rats and mice that I use to feed my two youngest boys. I don't give this all to her the same day, I'll usually pick one food and give it to her once a day on top of her staple diet, which is Oxbow for adult rats.

She LOOKS like she's bigger, but again, it could just be because I'm feeding her extra protein. Her belly doesn't look round per say, but her whole body just seems generally wider. She was 8.55 oz Monday, 8.8 oz Tuesday and 9.05 oz on Wednesday. I really feel like I'm not feeding her enough extra to warrant that kind of weight gain. If she is pregnant, this would be 12th day. I'm getting to a point where one way or the other I just really want to know. I'm still debating on taking her to the vet anyway.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Are you near a PetSmart with a banfield? They offered to see my girl for free to check that.


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## franjf (Dec 13, 2012)

Whenever my girls are on heat their vaginas look like what I can only describe as 'purple and saggy' haha. If she is pregnant you will notice the fur around her nipples starting to thin to expose them. Her stomach would also be wider, although some rats don't always show this. Lastly you may be able to see the pups squirming around inside her, or if you gently place your fingers to her stomach you may be able to feel them.
You may not know if she is pregnant or not until about a couple of days before where she will start nesting like mad, again though not all rats do this.
Your best option is to just be prepared for her being pregnant, extra cage etc etc...
Better to be prepared than to suddenly have a litter on your hands and not having a clue what to do!


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## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

Thank you nanashi and franj. I do have a Banfield near me, however this particular one doesn't look at exotics. I do have an exotics vet that I've taken my rats to in the past, she's probably the one I will go see.None of my girls seem to have any purpleness going on, but Twitch definitely looks more "open" when she's in heat . There's really no tactful way to describe it but it almost looks like a puckering butthole!Luckily I have a cage on hand that would work well for birthing and taking care of young ones for awhile, it's a small one level cage with a deep litter pan that I use for quarantines. I've also been planning on getting another cage, either another DCN or something similar. It's not something I was planning on getting immediately but I can expedite those plans if necessary.Nanashi, when you had your girl checked for pregnancy, what was the process involved? Alll I can imagine is Lulu peeing on a stick (a very small stick). Or did the vet use a stethoscope to listen to her tummy or something else?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Vet used a stethoscope; picked her up and was like oooh yeah. Was able to give me a due date and size estimate (she was off anyway but still...)

I was pretty sure she was pregnant before I went; I checked her for going into heat every night with no luck. I did the smell test; having a female smell a male..no interest? pregnant. Same for the male. I also noticed around day 15 furious nesting. She didn't change in behavior any other way or physically (well, she did hate strangers/people she didn't trust wholly). Then, day 18 she swallowed a baseball.


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## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

Well, I'm about 90% positive Lulu is pregnant.

Last Saturday, I decided I wanted to go ahead and set up a vet appointment since Lulu had been steadily gaining weight for about 5 days by that point. Michael and I go to family breakfast every Saturday morning, so I figured I'd call the vet beforehand and set up an appointment for later in the day. I told Michael of my intention to do this, and he told me I shouldn't bother with the appointment and to give it more time. 

He's been very dismissive about the whole idea of her being pregnant since the beginning, but I just can't ignore the signs. In 5 days she had gone from 8.55 ounces to 9.3 ounces. Plus what if she isn't pregnant, and there is something else wrong with her, like an impacted colon or something? I would prefer to know...anyway, I explained all of this to him and told him to not worry about it, and that I'd go to the vet by myself since he pretty much refused to go.

Finally, he sighed and said there was something he needed to tell me.

"When I said Lulu had only been in the boy's cage for 5 minutes....I mean I had to use the bathroom and stuff, it was probably longer than that..."

Yeah...I was sort of figuring that.

How much longer? Who knows. I do know he has a terrible habit of going in the bathroom and writing rants on Facebook for 20 minutes or more. Without me around to yell at him to hurry up it could have been longer. He said he was probably in the bathroom for 15 minutes or so. I'm sure it was probably longer but he seemed like he was genuinely kicking himself so I didn't press the issue.

I asked him why he didn't just tell me. He said he thought about it but was worried I'd be upset at him and start worrying for what could be no reason. And the longer time went on, the more he didn't want to tell me. He said he was telling the truth when he said she was in an igloo by herself and that the two older males weren't really doing anything. He figured nothing had happened and that telling me she'd been in the cage for awhile would just make me worry. Well, I'm going to worry anyway. She could have been in there for 30 seconds and I would still worry.

I asked him if he noticed anything "off" at all, any signs of a scuffle, toys knocked over, if the boys had puffy fur like they had been fighting or if Lulu's body vibrated at all when he picked her up. He said he didn't remember anything unusual and that Lulu seemed normal but he wasn't really paying attention.

About the only thing I got out of him was that the two younger boys were investigating the hammock while he was trying to hang it up and the two older boys were sitting there grooming themselves. I asked if either of them looked like they were grooming their groin area since I know they lick their penises if they ejaculate, and he said he wasn't sure since he wasn't watching them. Ugh.

Anyway, I didn't set up the appointment, because now I'm pretty convinced she really is pregnant. She hasn't acted sluggish or in pain at all, and is eating and drinking fine. Over the last couple of days I can definitely feel a difference in her body when I pick her up and I can tell her stomach is swelling. It's not HUGE but I can definitely tell it's expanding. Today she weighed 9.65, up from the initial 8.55 oz when I weighed her last Monday. I'm going to set up the quarantine cage tomorrow and probably move her into it. 

The only good news is Michael agreed to help me take care of / find homes for any babies since he pretty much lied to me. What really upsets me is deep down I already knew he was lying, and he had so much time to tell me the truth and it took until now for him to confess. If he had just been up front with me from the beginning I would have prepared for this a bit sooner.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Oh my. That's awful :/ Yeah, with that information I put my vote in pregnant as well. I was hoping it was the protein since the original description of events didn't sound like she'd get pregnant. My girl didn't change in the least (well, she got a bit sweeter) until she began nesting like MAD. I think it's good to see no behavioral changes, because that means it is unlikely that she will be postpartum aggressive towards you (but be careful with your boyfriend, my girl wanted me to be in her nest constantly but was aggressive in or around the cage to others).

This forum is pretty good for finding homes, also try goosemoose and any local facebook groups. I hope for the best for you guys!


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## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

Thanks nanashi. Depending on how many babies there, I will definitely check those places out.I'm really glad her behavior hasn't changed, if anything she's been clingier than usual the last couple of days. Today her belly is definitely rounder, but still hard to see in pictures. Today she weighs 10 ounces, up from 9.65 yesterday!I set up her maternity cage today, she's out for free roaming time right now but when that's over I'll probably move her in.Nanashi, what kind of cage setup did you use for your girl when she had her babies?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I used a bin cage for the first two weeks. http://imgur.com/B0i8kR5 If she's anything like mine, she will probably not enjoy this very much and get very bored and antsy. If she is not too great a mama, the big one I used isn't great though because you will want her confined closer to her babies. My girl appreciated time apart from her babies but always went back to keep them warm and fed. She also tried to escape like mad every chance she got, so let her free range while you fuss with her babies (but don't let her near the babies or she may try to relocate her nest! )
After their eyes open, though, she can go back to a wire cage that is fun.

My girl turned really sweet after her litter. She became very licky and like I said started wanting my hand in her nest so she could groom me while I fussed with her young. She never got upset no matter what I did with her babies


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## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

She sounds like a super cool rat. That bin actually looks pretty nice, fairly large too. This is the one I'm using for now







, it's the All Living Things My First Home for Rats. I used a stack of soy ink newspaper as liner, then piled on a bunch of extra fleece I cut up with some paper towel bits. Do you think this is a reasonable set up? It's not that large, but it's what I have on hand. When she's closer to her expected due date, I plan on removing the shelf in there. I actually already removed the wire mesh ramp I had in there because she's even fatter today and I'm worried she'll injure her feet since she's probably a bit less balanced than usual. Instead, I placed a small plastic igloo in there that she can use as a step. I feel bad because like your girl, she already seems really bored. -_-

In other news, I went ahead and ordered the DCN, I plan to have all girls in one and all boys in the other, that way this will hopefully never be an issue again.

Here is what her belly currently looks like...definitely preggers, yes?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Haha definitely looks it already to me. 

The setup looks fine but here is my advice :
Avoid fleece because she will burrow under it and take her babies. Plus you cannot clean the cage for two weeks so want something you can spot clean. I picked white paper bedding, CareFreeh Ultra. Don't use hideys because she will use them and it won't be fun reaching in to a rat startling her and getting a defensive wound. You also can't access the babies with ease. I put a chew, a ball she loves, and set a hammock on the floor for my girl. For hideys I covered half te cage use a blanket you don't mind being holey. This also helps keep her stress down by providing a warm dark quiet environment. 


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## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. I haven't been sure what to use as bedding because after doing a lot of research, it seems like there is always something "bad" about bedding no matter what it is. I thought about paper bedding but then a few places say it's too dusty for them. I do see why it would be superior from a cleaning standpoint though.

I also saw that you can't clean the bedding for two weeks, why is that? Will moms react poorly if the smell of the environment changes?

Around her due date, I'm going to take the igloo and shelf out of the cage. I think I'll replace the bedding with paper bedding and leave some of the fleece strips and paper towels behind so she can have a nest without it taking up the entire bottom of the cage.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I recommend Ultra because it comes in big pieces and only the bottom of the bag is dusty. Kaytee was awful for dustiness.
I think the cleaning has to do with smells and stress. Moms want their babies to smell like them and changes into new scents can upset her. What I did was to use ferret descending spray and spray the clean bedding. Then, changing the bedding had no changes. Using this method, I cleaned at the end of the first week and switched cages at the end of the second without upsetting her. 
She got upset when I moved her nest, returned babies to here, but not at any other time. If someone other than me handled the babies she would groom them ferociously which is dangerous. This is why I used the blanket covering the cage as the blanket I set babies on when handling them as it smelled "safe". Especially given her size, you might be looking at a sizable litter like mine was. 


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## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

Thanks for all of your great advice nanashi. I'm gonna get some Carefresh ultra after work today and change out her bedding. The spray is a good idea. I have some powder scented cage spray I use once in awhile, I think I'll spritz the bedding very lightly with it.I feel so bad for her, she is already so bored. This morning I checked on her and she was hauling her fat body up my arm and onto my shoulder, every time I tried to put her back in the cage she would try to climb onto me like "noooo don't put me back in there!" I'm going to give her some extra long free range time today, I let her free range with her cage buddies yesterday and that helped lift her spirits. I'm just nervous about letting her in certain areas since she's gotten so round, I worry about her injuring herself or the babies.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

My rat was just the same. I woke up one day to her sitting atop my vase of flowers, no clue how she scaled the bookshelf. Unfortunately it seems to come with the territory of pregnancy (heck, even my sister was antsy and bored during her final weeks). Nothing I could offer was entertaining so long as I had her IMPRISONED haha. Time out is all you can give; when the babies come, she can have like twenty minutes out while you fuss with them and it can be multiple times a day (I did twice daily). For in-cage entertainment, you could try hiding treats (high-protein ones would be a plus) in the bedding and making her dig.

I would definitely keep letting her see her cage mates, since eventually you are probably going to want her to introduce her back in there and maybe even with the babies (well, kits, since they'd be older).


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