# SOOO many Scabs!



## fluffy470 (Feb 24, 2012)

So my boys get along fine, they sleep together, they play together.... Except for a few things that concern me. All three of them have at lest two or three scabs on them at all times. (The scabs are always on their lower back) I am with them almost 24/7 and I only hear a squeak every once in a while and it's just a short squeak. Occasionally they will pin each other on the ground and the other will let out a short high squeak. Six does most of the pinning yet I see scabs on him too. Do you think that they are just grooming each other too roughly or this this something that could slowly escalate into major fights over time. Thanks in advance for your help, 



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## fluffy470 (Feb 24, 2012)

I just did a quick scab count on each of da boys
Remmy has 5 scabs
Six (my alpha male) has no scabs at the moment
And little Jojo has two scabs

Here's a pic of one of remmys if it might help, the sizes range from the size of a sesame seed to the size of this period.
View attachment 10971

And there's no hair loss I just parted his hair to the sides
Please help, oh and none of them are neutered


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## Mimsymom (Dec 5, 2012)

It could be an allergy. Maybe they are scratching themselves too hard. One of my rats Ralph had this before. I changed his litter and food. Then I have him a good bath and trimmed his nails. That seemed to help a lot.  I hope your boys are better soon. 


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

None on the shoulders or neck at all? You can even wet the rats down to check for scahs...did you look for lice just in case on their rumps? Lice like rumps and backs, and are visitble, mites are invisible to the neaked eye and prefer necks, shoulders, faces to start off at. I would treat for ectoparasites if you aren't sure.

How old are your boys? Do you ever seen any gashes, or other rats trying to mount the other or pinning and putting their mouths on the other rat threatening to bite if they move? Do you hear chases and scuffles in the cage regularly? If so, then its more likley dominance issues, and depending on their age if may escalate.


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## fluffy470 (Feb 24, 2012)

Two of the boys (Remmy and Six) will be one in January and Jojo turns one in Febuary. They pin each other down occasionally but they never threaten to bite each other to what I an see. they just hold each other down and then the other squirms away. I kinda just thought it might be play untill the scabs showed up... 

I don't thing that its lice or mites... They don't itch themselves much, although they groom each other ALOT



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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Here's the drill... Treat for mites etc with revolution. It's cheap and effective and overall as safe as a drug properly administered ever gets. Pick it up from a local vet. It's often administered in cats and dogs prophilactically so there should be no need for a visit. 

Yes, I too went through the whole what is it thing... long ago, I wasted money on OTC sprays and watched my rats get sicker and sicker and mice die wondering what the cause was. I tried the revolution, cost me $17.00, treated a bunch of animals and now it's my go to place to start. Add about a drop or two of the stuff to the back of every animal's neck and the scabs go away... Most recently, I noticed that one rat had a big scab on her back and the other had a few very small ones on hr hips, it looked like they were from ratplay, that got me interested, then found more around her neck, likely some scabs were from rough play but after the revolution... they're all gone.

It's true however if you want to play vet, that the mites usually attack around the head, face and neck area first. And unless you have superhuman vision, don't expect to see them... some people apparently can but for us mere mortals, most likely you wouldn't see a mite if it bit you.


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## fluffy470 (Feb 24, 2012)

Thank rat daddy, I'll check into revolution, My boys don't have scabs at al on their necks, though not even tiny ones,


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

You need Ivermectin.


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## fluffy470 (Feb 24, 2012)

U h
Guys I am thinkin it's not mites or fleas or anything because six (ma alpha male) doesn't have any scabs. I think he might be being too rough :/


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Generally, the scabs that are produced by fighting or by a dominant rat occur after you find an open wound. With mites you just about never actually find an open wound. Also dominant behavior usually involves hair loss in the areas that are being over groomed by the alpha male.

It is often difficult to tell the difference between a mite attack and wounds inflicted by a dominant rat. So basically, you have two tests to try. Test number one is to separate your rats and keep them apart for a couple of weeks to see if all of the scabs heal whereas test number two is to treat your rats for mites and see if all or most of the scabs heal. Either way, you might be wrong. Obviously, if you separate your rats and the affliction gets worse, you really don't have to wait two weeks to decide on the alternative course of action. Revolution does take about a week to take effect.

As to ivermectin, that was the preferred treatment prior to revolution. It could be injected by a veterinarian or given orally. I do believe there was also a preparation in the UK that could be administered transdermally. I believe the oral preparation is used as a horse dewormer and can be purchased at a horse feed and tack shop. It might even be a little bit cheaper than revolution. I've never tried it so I really can't recommend it, but I've had great results with revolution when it comes to mites.

My first mite infestation actually came in with mice. At first, just one got sick, then another, then several of them were sick while others looked perfectly fine. With mice, the mites really take a toll on the small animals and it doesn't take too long for them to die of respiratory failure. The scabs actually looked like a secondary symptom. But the point being, and I've seen this also with rats that mites don't attack or at least affect all animals equally. When we adopted our most recent rat she had no sign of mites. After a few weeks she developed a few small scabs above her tail, but they went away pretty quickly, naturally assumed they were being caused by our big girl. Than our big girl had what appeared to be a long scratch on her back, also very possibly caused by her new roommate. Then I noticed some small scabs around her neck. Sure, I could still explain away everything I had seen, but I decided to treat with revolution anyway. Within two weeks, both rats were scab free. Very likely, because my big girl is 19 months old and not in the best of health, she was affected much more quickly and severely than her seven-month-old roommate. But it's also safe to assume that the seven-month-old rat, that brought in the mites in the first place might have been afflicted for a very long time and overall, didn't show any noticeable symptoms. So you can't really say that just because all your animals don't appear to be affected that you don't have a mite problem.

When I started looking into revolution veterinarians that treated rats wanted to do an examination and charge for a visit. Oddly enough, I found a vet that didn't treat rats and was more than happy to sell the revolution for prophylactic mite prevention. As it turns out, many people treat their dogs and cats on a monthly basis to protect their pets from parasites that they don't actually have yet. And same can be true for rats. And at $17 for enough revolution to treat over a dozen small animals the cost to benefit analysis broke away in favor of treatment.

When I first decided that I was dealing with mites I literally wasted more money and over-the-counter remedies from the revolution cost me. And most of the sprays made my rats look sick and for sure they hated being sprayed. And more than likely they groom themselves and ingested some of the poison. With revolution there were no noticeable side effects. As to ivermectin, I have heard about issues where certain rats have gotten very sick, again having never tried it, I'll leave you to your own research.

Basically, without a microscope there's pretty much no way of seeing rat mites, so unless you want to turn the decision over to a veterinarian, it boils down to a judgment call. As the treatment is cheap and has no side effects and is easier than separating my rats, it's my first option when in doubt. I use a syringe, extract a very small amount of revolution from the tube, put a couple drops on the back of each rats neck and wait about a week to see if everything gets better. The first time I did it, I did a second application after about five days that may have been unnecessary but I was very conservative with the dosage. The only course of treatment I would not recommend for sure is the over-the-counter sprays, but unlike mice, mites tend to take a while to kill your rats so you should have time to try separating them. Again, a severe mite infestation causes your animals to become very anemic, if you notice that they're having difficulty breathing or their wheezing your rats are in serious trouble and you need to act fast.

In any case, that's how I treat the symptoms you mentioned, what you do is entirely up to you.

All the best to you and your ratties.


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## fluffy470 (Feb 24, 2012)

Thank you very much Rat Daddy! That was probably the best answer I have ever gotten and it really helped me! I'm going to go try to get some revolution today. So could you tell me about your dosage? You said three small drops but I really don't want to over dose them, and also the boys groom each other often is there anything you did to keep them from grooming each other?


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## fluffy470 (Feb 24, 2012)

By grooming each other I meant they could ingest the revolution by doing so. and I know with dogs it's not good even if the humans touch the dogs backs the day they have their treatment so I didn't think it would be good for rats to ingest it. Thanks for all your help


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

The following link will take you to a webpage where you will find all the information that you really need to know about mites and other rat skin problems. It includes a dosage table for revolution.

I use a syringe to extract a small amount of revolution from the tube and drop it on my rats neck. I believe there are diabetic syringes that would be better suited than the general syringe I have. I think I pretty much buy the preparation intended for 5 to 15 pound cats. My rats are pretty large so I calculate the dosage based on their weight. The toxicity for revolution is pretty low so a small overdose is not critical. You also lose quite a bit of the liquid into the rat's fur. For rat that's about a pound and a half to drops from a syringe with a needle should be about fine assuming some of it gets sopped up by the fur. Pretty much in order to be effective the medication has to reach the rat's skin.

http://www.ratfanclub.org/skin.html


The medicine takes about 5 to 10 minutes to soak in and dry after that you can put your rats back together and they can safely groom each other. Remember the reason you're putting the medicine on the back of their necks is so they can't lick it off and ingest it themselves.

One final footnote, unless you very thoroughly seal the revolution tube and store it in the freezer it will evaporate. It's alcohol-based. If you have a tightly sealing medicine bottle that would even be better.

As odd as it might sound, the price for every different dosage of revolution is about the same. So by enough to treat all of your rats and other amall animals they may come into contact with, especially mice.

Because there is some element of tweaking involved here chances are that you're never going to get the dosage exactly right, but for the most part close enough is good enough. If you under dose, you can always treat again and if you overdose, you're still not likely to do any harm, within reason of course.

Remember when calculating drops that are drop from a syringe tip and a drop from a bucket are very different measurements. But if you think about it, the same dosages recommended for a 5 pound cat is the same dosage that is recommended for 15 pound cat. So at least in cats, a triple dose does no harm.

I hope this helps. Good luck with your ratties.


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## fluffy470 (Feb 24, 2012)

Thank you very much


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