# Bleeding from rear end Update Shes gone



## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

Well, I thought id ask here aswell before the vet visit, since ive had lots of help from here in the past 

I have already reserved time for the vet for thursday (The soonest time I could get ).

My oldest rat Piippa is 2years and approximately 7 months old. 
And couple days ago she has started "Bleeding" From her.. vaginal area.
Its not blood I guess, its murky greenish blackish stuff that comes from there, and sometimes a bit reddish like blood. She also has very bad eye sight.. but anyway. What could the bleeding be? and the cause? I was thinking of somekind of an infection but im not sure. Also, might it be contagious? I just wanna know everything that would have similiar symptoms and suchs.
Piippa looks like shes tired almost all of the time. She never has liked being scratched nor being held. More of a going type girl. But now days shes been on my lap and hasnt really "Resisted" the scratching. 
Im not quite sure if this post makes any sense... too tired to think right now havent really slept.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

All I can think of is Pyometra (although I've never experienced a rat with it, it's usually the first given answer when any discharge is involved)

Here's some info - see if it fits.

http://www.rathealth.co.uk/articles/pyo.html

http://ratguide.com/health/reproductive/pyometra.php

Perhaps if it is this, you should call your vet and explain that Thursday is too long to wait? Get her seen as an emergency case?

It's just an idea - I hope it helps


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

Thank you for the links. Yeah it seems like pyometra.

When I first called the vet I explained the situation, and that it was an emergency case. She said that there is still all times booked.
Tried other vets around here but noone else treats rats cos of the lack of knowledge.
So thursday it is. :<


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## OnlyOno (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

i'd say because of your description of the discharge, pyometra as well. but just you that it's out there, i've had several hamsters die of blood loss from a type of repro tract cancer that i've heard is common in hamsters and guinea pigs. just throwing it out there, although i'm not sure how common it is in rats. of course, those cases involved large quantities of very bright red blood.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

Definitely some type of uterine infection. Some older girls and sick girls stop cleaning themselves and develop them. It does sound like an open pyometra to me, with the discharge type/colour. She needs abs asap.


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

Ok im happy to say that, I got the time for the vet for today!
Have to go to another city and its one of the most expensive vets i know :<
But I dont want my baby to suffer .
If it happens to be pyometra, is it contagious to the other girls?
I figure its not... but i just wanna be sure.

I doubt is repro tract cancer, since the blood is not red. Its murky greem sometimes reddish. Looks a bit like oil...

6 hours till its piippas appointment at the vet...


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

Well done, I'm sure she'll thank you 

Let us know how she gets on

Good luck


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

Well, The doctor suspected womb infection.. pyometra. The doctor said that we should try the antibiotics. and she gave baytril. If the bleeding wont stop we have to go visit her again. She didnt recomend surgery for piippa, since shes very old, and probably would not survive.
I just hope Piippa will be ok.
Luckily she hasnt lost her appetite, and she does drink aswell.


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## rattusnorvegicus (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

some feedback:

All rats have very bad eyesight.
The greenish-blackish stuff couldve just been some different kinda food you gave to her.
The blood is discharge and it is probably ok and it makes more sense since she is a girl rat ... ask your vet.
Maybe it's a respritory attack.

good luck and keep us updated


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*



rattusnorvegicus said:


> some feedback:
> 
> All rats have very bad eyesight.
> The greenish-blackish stuff couldve just been some different kinda food you gave to her.
> ...


No rat should have any discharge 'down there'. At all. Any discharge, red, white, green, yellow - should be checked by a vet ASAP.

In this case, food would not have been a cause as we're not talking about poo. We're talking about lady bits.

Nenn, best of luck with Piippa. All our fingers and toes are crossed for you over here


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

In my knowledge rats dont have actually very bad eyesight. Only Pink eyed ones.
The greenish blackish stuff was discharge from her .. rear end. Not cos of the food i give them. Infection.
Blood discharges are not ok ... female rats dont menstruate and she is not pregnant.

shes on baytril now. And will hopefully help. We have another vet check up at 13th january.

Thanks for the feedback though


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

Thank you ration , and everyone else


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*



Nenn said:


> In my knowledge rats dont have actually very bad eyesight. Only Pink eyed ones.


From what I've picked up from here and there, no rat has GOOD eyesight, so to speak. Pink eyed have worse eyesight than black eyed (not sure which catagory ruby falls into). They rely a lot on their other senses to get the job done

 Just thought I'd add to the mix (again)


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*



Ration1802 said:


> Nenn said:
> 
> 
> > In my knowledge rats dont have actually very bad eyesight. Only Pink eyed ones.
> ...


Yeah. But its not very bad! The eye sight that is.
Also Piippa has gone blind, according to the vet. And like you said , they rely on their other senses, its not that bad for piippa  The blindness is due her age I thought she would be 2,7 years max.. but the doctor suggested 3,5 or so by the look of piippa :> .. off topic again


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*



Nenn said:


> Yeah. But its not very bad! The eye sight that is.
> Also Piippa has gone blind, according to the vet. And like you said , they rely on their other senses, its not that bad for piippa  The blindness is due her age I thought she would be 2,7 years max.. but the doctor suggested 3,5 or so by the look of piippa :> .. off topic again


Oh, yeah  doh!

And Piippa is an old lady  Well done for her!

I've had a rat that's recently lost an eye, and I really can't tell the difference in her behaviour - it goes to show how much they really use their eyes. How does Piippa cope blind? Is it just a case of keeping things the same in her cage..or..?

I know, off topic  if you'd like you could always PM me the answer?


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

I dont mind the topic going off topic 

Well, I pretty much gotta use the same arrangement in her cage. And not too high shelves. and make sure she cant fall from too high. Otherwise its same as any other little furball 

I noticed the VERY bad eyesight, probably blindness cos of her behaviour, she was very carefull of where to go, and didnt quite notice me waving my fingers near her  Also.. when i rearranged the girls cage, she kind of jumped where the hammock used to be... but wasnt there anymore cos i had changed it to the other place. She didnt get hurt. The fall wasnt that high. Also she did that quite many times with different hammocks, and other stuff. That suggested she was not seeing well.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

Ah, ok. Thanks. It's good to know what to look out for (as my poor one eyed rat now has problems with her other eye!) I may try rearranging her cage a couple of times a week just to see if she will notice and adapt to the change. If not - I know she's having sight problems.

Good luck with Piippa (again, but you can't have enough good luck) and keep us updated


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

Thank you 

All the best for your little rattie


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

I have my fingers crossed the baytril does the trick with her pyo. She has a better chance with an open (discharge seen) pyo than a closed one 

Back to the vision thing.

PEW's have terrible vision,
Ruby's can have terrible to slightly better vision
Black-eyes have better vision, but they really don't see very well at all, and as mentioned, rely on their other senses a lot.

Here's an example of what a rat sees...
http://www.ratbehavior.org/RatCam.htm


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## rattusnorvegicus (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

a bloody discharge from 'there' signals the start of a birthing process.
-reference from RATS! by Debbie Ducommun.

i am probably wrong about this. just giving you a little information. take her to the vet straight away because these sickness signs sound very unusual. :? 

good luck


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*



rattusnorvegicus said:


> a bloody discharge from 'there' signals the start of a birthing process.
> -reference from RATS! by Debbie Ducommun.
> 
> i am probably wrong about this. just giving you a little information. take her to the vet straight away because these sickness signs sound very unusual. :?
> ...


Good book, I enjoyed reading it  Have you tried About Pets, The Rat? It has a lot of interesting information about other rat species (Gambian etc).

You have to look at this particular case in context though. Piippa is 2 years 7 months old (the vet believed her 3 years 5 months) so chances are VERY high that she has been through rattie-menopause and is no longer fertile. The chance of her getting pregnant are slim/none - and I'm sure had there been a chance Nenn would have said something 

(I hope that's right, anyway)

Also Pyometra is a reasonably common occurrance in un-spayed females. Any unexpected discharge (the rat isn't pregnant) can be an indicator of a womb/vaginal infection, such as pyo.


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## rattusnorvegicus (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

was she spayed?


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

Rattus. She couldn't be spayed if she has Pyometra. It's an infection of the womb. One of the treatments for it is a full spay


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## rattusnorvegicus (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

oh soz. i have read that book.


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

No shes not pregnant, never has been. No she has not been spayed. Also she wont be spayed due to her age, She might not survive from it.

She seems to be doing a bit better, she still leaks though


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

Keep her on the meds, it may not cure the infection if its a virulent one or it may. It hopefully will keep it in check and make her more comfortable


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

Ok can I throw one in? Sorry for butting on another post, but this is a similar thing.

Carrot was spayed about 4? months ago due to suspected Pyo and made a full physical recovery.

The vet said she had a lot of big blood vessels down there but didnt cut open the womb so couldnt confirm a pyo.

Now carrot has more discharge and has for a couple of days. Its not thick gooey blood, its like a red runny liquid (pee?), and most likely its porphyrin (sp) 
We have also noticed just today that her 'lady area' is looking a little swollen. Has anyone had any experience with this? Or does anyone have any ideas if its definitely not a pyo?

We are going to try to get a vet appointment for saturday as we will be carless tomorrow.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

They can get uterine infections from the stump of the uterus left behind but they are not common. Can you put her down on white paper towel in a carrier and wait until she pees? If there's blood in her urine then she could very likely have a UTI (urinary tract infection).


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end Update*

Ok so, I started giving baytril 7 days ago or so.
Piippa "seems" to be doing better... She eats, and drinks. BUT
Her vaginal area still bleeds. Its not black oily looking thing anymore, nor murky green. Its more like.. Brownish reddish stuff. I doubt thats normal.

She also had some kind of a an breathing attack.. she stood near the food bowl and started breeding heavily for a while, and squeaked once.(like she has always squeaked when some one picks her up).
she doesnt wanna be held, but thats nothing new. She never was the lap , cuddly kind of a girl. Also she dislikes scritches. I picked her up and it looks a bit like she was pregnant, lower tummy part a bit bigger than usual.
Also her fur is all fluffed up, and im sure my room aint cold :/


Edit: I just picked her up, and tried to pat her and see if she was alright. When I touched her lower tummy area, some uhm brown reddish diarreah looking stuff came out of her vagina. It didnt BURST out, it just came out just a little bit.. and she smelled a bit like blood . ._.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

I believe a sign of pyometra is a distended/swollen abdomen.

The fact that it's turned from 'gunk' to fresher blood also isn't a good sign.

I'd get on the blower to your vet asap. I can't comment about the breathing attack, but puffy fur can be a sign of pain.

I'm sorry Nenn, I wish I could help more.

My thoughts are with little Piippa


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

its 1:52 am here. And the clinic opens at 8 am... until then im gonna give treats and suchs for piippa and make her more comfy .. or atleast try.


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end*

Alright, came from the vet's office hour ago. We had a chance to either send her to play with ratties into rainbow bridge, or try baytril once more.
I was thinking of surgery but, as the doctor said, he would not recomend it, since my girl is so old already.
So were gonna try baytril again, hopefully it will help.
She doesnt "Bleed" as much as she used to that murky green/black oilish stuff. Now its light brownish, diarreah looking stuff. and smells like blood. It came out when the doctor gently rubbed piippas lower tummy area.
Piippa seems fine, shes playful, and eating,drinking like always. She sleeps more tho , and got another breathing attack while ago


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end Update*

Poor Piippa 

I hope the Baytril can do the trick this time around, I really do.

Good luck

Give her a little hug from me


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end Update*

Put her on high doses of baytril...you have nothing to lose at this point. PM me if you want help with the dosing.


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end Update*

PM:ed you with questions Lilspaz.


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end Update*

Ok so, Piippa has had couple good days, and now 2 bad days in a row.

Yesterday, She didnt quite eat anything, she took couple licks of babyfood,water,veggie mix thing I made for her. 
She hasnt really wanted to go out and explore anything either (free range time).
Today, she hasnt even touched her foods or water, so i gave him some water from syringe( No needle in it!) and she drank it nicely. She also ate couple bites of tunafish and bit cucumber.
She also had been staying in one spot in her cage and didnt move at all for whole day.. So i tried to let her free range, but she didnt move anywhere, not even when I took her out and put her on the floor on a blanket.. just sat there.
Now I took her out again, patted her and scritched, and she bruxxed and boggled some. Then I did an examination and noticed she had.. barbered her private parts. Also noticed that she smelled VERY bad... by very bad i mean extrelemy very very bad. Still i patted her and let her sit on my lap.
Im going to try take some pictures of her tomorrow, and possibly try put a bit of vaseline on the place where she barbered, like ration suggested me to do earlier.

So my question is, is it "normal" that after some time she starts to smell horrible?
First came out murky green stuff, and then it changed to black/red oily substance, then it was darkish brown/red and smelt a bit like blood, and now its red/light brown and smells horrible.
I was thinking that maybe it was part of the healing progress at first, but now im not that sure... cos of the smell. I have vet appointment on Thursday

Sorry for the long post


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end Update 1/13/2008*

If she smells that badly she has a severe infection going on 

Does her skin smell bad too or just the discharge?


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end Update 1/13/2008*

Shouldnt baytril help with the infection? 

She overall smells bad, but when the stuff comes out, it smells even more worse.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end Update 1/13/2008*



Nenn said:


> Shouldnt baytril help with the infection?
> 
> She overall smells bad, but when the stuff comes out, it smells even more worse.


baytril on its own can take care of lots of infections but if she has a uterine infection going on those are nasty and need doubled up abs and possibly much stronger, more penetrating types.

The bacteria may not be sensitive to baytril all on its own.

Sweetie, I hate to say this but if she smells badly all over, she has a serious systemic infection (throughout her body) and the baytril will not work. She's only going to get worse. You might have to think about helping her across. ((hugs))

She cannot be feeling well at all.


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end Update 1/13/2008*

Would she get healthy if id get her doubled up stronger abs?
Im not sure if she smells all over through out her body, since the smell on her is rather strong... 
I just dont know what to do now, at times she has her good moments, like now shes running on my desk, and ate some bread. But at times shes just miserable. I dont know.. maybe its time.. but im not quite ready, but if she is... This is horrible. its 6:22 am here and I cant sleep cos im just thinking her


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end Update 1/13/2008*

http://ratguide.com/health/reproductive/pyometra.php

_The prognosis in most cases is extremely guarded, even when treatment is begun early in the condition._

Pyo is a very tricky infection. Most vets stabilize with antibiotics then spay. If it was a mild infection, baytril might have taken care of it, but this is well beyond mild.

Sorry.


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

*Re: Bleeding from rear end Update 1/13/2008*

Piippa has passed away... 

http://www.ratforum.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=6076.html


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