# A couple of cage questions.



## RatGranny (Sep 19, 2008)

#1 - For full grown rats of average size what is the minimum bar spacing that is considered suitable for keeping them in the cage? Obviously we don't want any unsupervised or unexpected out-of-cage time. 

#2 - If you have a cage that is suitable for the rats at their current size and when they get larger you wish to expand, without necessarily replacing the current cage entirely, are there ways to connect two cages?

My daughter currently has two small (8 weeks old) female rats. The current cage configuration is suitable for their current size but I in thinking about the future, I can see that some changes may need to be made as they get larger. Thus the beginning of the research.

Thanks.

Carole

Edited to add one more question!

In the pictures of cages thread I noticed that some of the cages appeared to be originally designed for rabbits, guinea pigs or ferrets and the bar spacing was possibly 1" (or wider?) but some sort of additional material was used as an additional grid. What sort of material would be suitable for escape proofing a cage with 1" wide bar spacing?

We currently have two cages that were used for our guinea pigs with 1" bar spacing. If there is a way of making this suitable for rat retention we could connect our current cage to the old guinea pig cage - which would increase space while also making use of cages we already own.


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## Mana (Apr 22, 2007)

1/2" bar spacing is a good, safe size for rats.

I'd recommend getting them a big enough cage as early as possible, because they grow quickly. Each rat should have at least 2 cubic feet of space... but the more room they have, the happier they will be!

When you're looking for a cage, the "Rat Cage Calculator" sticky up top will be a very good resource. Plug in the dimensions of the cage to one of the calculators and it will tell you the maximum number of rats the cage can hold. I'd try to find a cage that can hold at least one or two more rats than you have, because the bare minimums aren't really enough. We could live in one tiny room instead of a nice big house, but we wouldn't be as happy or comfortable in it


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

Ferret cages are typically what is used because it gives more space. Not many rat cages actually have enough room for rats. The stuff covering the cage you want is hardware cloth. You want to get the green coated stuff because then it doesn't absorb urine smells. Just use zip ties to attach it to the cage. Ferret cages typically have 1in bar spacing and smaller girls and young boys can get out of it so that is why the cages are covered.


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## RatGranny (Sep 19, 2008)

The cage calculators used agree that we have enough space for 2 rats - however, I think that when they reach their full growth the could benefit from more space, now that I actually see the rats in the cage. 

We purchased the cage before we brought home the rats - so what appeared to be suitable in theory now seems to be, while adequate in the minimum, less than optimal.

However, having purchased the current cage - I really don't want to waste money by discarding it entirely. So if we can find a way to "rat proof" the guinea pig cage bars and connect it to the current cage - we will have more than adequate space without having to buy a completely new cage configuration.

Since the cage calculators tell me that our current set up is suitable for two rats (I assume the mean full grown) I figure we'll be okay for a couple weeks while I do some research on expansion.

In looking for hardware cloth I find that most of it appears to be galvanized steel - is there a powder coated version? Or is the plain metal suitable?


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

The size of your adults rats depends on genetics and gender. Big adult females and most adult males cannot get out of 1" bar spacing, their heads are too big.

However, smaller males and females can get out of 1" spacing, hence why .5" would hold all adult rats (well, you're hope, clever buggers.) Many people with the 1" spacing cover the bars to make them safer, hardware cloth is recommended. Plain galvanized hardware cloth will likely soak up urine odors and become very stinky no matter how you clean it. Plastic or powder coated would be better.

I love my Ferret Nation (with its 1" spacing), but I'd worry too much with girls in it. Of course they're producing a Critter Nation that has .5" spacing, but anyway...


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## RatGranny (Sep 19, 2008)

Thanks Forensic. Since we have a little while before the space is an issue in our current cage (a few weeks at least) I'll start playing around with ways to safeguard the 1" bars. The calculators tell us our old cage is suitable for 3 or 4 rats (depending on which calculator is used) so if I can make the 1" bars safe then it should be more than adequate for the 2 girls even if I cannot contrive a suitable connection for the two cages (though that would be idea).

I'll start looking at the hardware cloth.

Is there a concern with sharp edges hurting the rats? If so is the anything to safeguard that?


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

What cage do you currently have and what are the dimensions?


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## RatGranny (Sep 19, 2008)

Stace87 said:


> What cage do you currently have and what are the dimensions?


It's 25 w x 18 d x 25 h. Two of the three calculators here say it is suitable for 2 rats. Which is why we chose it. Of course, now that I'm seeing the baby rats I can see that space may be an issue when they get bigger.

The cage we already own, but did not use due to bar spacing, is 40 x 18 x 20 - which all three calculators agree is suitable for at least 2 rats (2 of the 3 put it as suitable for 4).

Which is why I'd like to, ideally, find a way to make the 1" bars rat safe and use the larger cage alone or connect the two cages.


Oh ... and I learned something today - when typing dimensions into calculators based in the UK it is important to check the right type of measurement. If you type the measurements in inches with the box for metric (centimeters) checked the calculator won't like you very much. LOL


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

If you go to home depot or lowes and look near the concrete they have the coated hardware cloth in that section. If they look at you like you have a third eye when you ask where it is, tell them you need wire mesh and they will typically point you in the right direction. The green coated stuff is typically right next to the galvanized kind. They all carry it, it's just a matter of finding it. Also, if you have a small hardware store, garden center, ect. these typically carry it also. Sometimes mentioning green wire mesh gets you what you want. 

When attaching the mesh try to put it on the inside, for some reason it looks nicer, is easier to clean and makes things all around better. Just make sure there are no sharp edges for the rats (I take a bit of it with pliers and wrap it around one of the corners to make sure nothing gets snagged). Also, using the smallest zip ties you can find is best because after you cut it those little edges are sharp and you don't want big sharp edges!!


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## Mana (Apr 22, 2007)

I couldn't find any of the coated hardware cloth at the Home Depot I went to, so I went with the galvanized. With 9 rats in the cage, even after nearly a year it never smelled. So don't be afraid of using it if you can't find the coated stuff.

I put mine on the outside of the cage because I was worried about edges, and since rats like to climb I figured it would get ickier faster on the inside - so maybe on the inside it would have started smelling. Either way, it's going to be a pain to clean (just a heads up - I was SO relieved when all of my girls were big enough to take the hardware cloth off).


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

I modify lots of cages since I gather up donated cages, find them on Craigslist or Freecycle & I've found them dumped off for garbage pick up. 

I salvage what is usable & constantly modify the enclosures I have.

I've found ways to use the hardware cloth & various types of tubes. You can either buy the colored ferret tubes or you can buy the pvc fittings for plumbing applications.

Once you have some photos up of the cages I'm sure many of the handy-persons on the board can chime in with all types of ways to join the cages.

Zip ties will be your best friend.

I too have had to use the uncoated wire because I have had no luck finding the coated & when I have it was real tiny rolls & I just could justify the price for it. I've seen discovered I can use a non-toxic enemal paint that is sold as safe for kids furniture. I'll be experimenting with this suggestion once the temperatures cool off & I can start doing some outside projects again without dying of a heat stroke.


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## RatGranny (Sep 19, 2008)

Thanks everyone!




Mana said:


> (just a heads up - I was SO relieved when all of my girls were big enough to take the hardware cloth off).


Mana's comment made me wonder - how do you know when (if) your rats are big enough to have 1" spacing without hardware cloth?

Though - with an inquisitive cat (with a high prey drive) I think that the hardware cloth might remain a good idea. We don't allow the cat near the cage without supervision - but as we all know cats are resourceful and accidents/lapses in attention happen and I'd like to be sure that the ratties are as protected as they can be.


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## SweetLittleDelilah (May 13, 2008)

I just have to say..
In my opinion, you would be much better off just going with a larger cage. Google Martin's cages, they are very good(you want powder coated not galvanized) and if you can afford it, the RUUD is an awesome cage. (though the rat skyscraper is very nice, and would be perfectly sized for two girls)
I say this because they love to climb. Both of your cages are not very tall at all, giving the rats no levels to run around on, no bars to climb up. And they love that stuff! Plus, more height gives you more room for hammocks and toys. ^-^


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