# We've got a biter



## jonwascovich (Jan 26, 2009)

So, I heard rats don't really bite that much, but this one that I've got from Petco, Edward, who's been kept with other rats in a cage, has been biting me (technically nipping, no blood yet, but it felt like he was using pressure with his jaw) every time i put my hand in to let him smell. my other rat, barack obama, who i got from PetSmart (he was kept in a cage by himself) and edward have been fighting and i'm concerned on whether or not edward's going to bite him. he hasn't yet, but it did look like he nipped barack on the back a few times, although it might have been a bit of grooming. my questions: might edward bite barack? will he eventually stop biting me? (my hand didn't smell like food by the way) should i be concerned of anything?

edit: they're both "medium" sized rats, i don't know their ages, but i guess maybe you can tell by their size label?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

You possibly have a hormonal boy, I am going through it myself. I am having my biter (lots of blood) neutered today. Once the raging hormones subside I think he will be a nice rat.

Did you do careful introductions with your boys when you brought the new boy home?


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## jonwascovich (Jan 26, 2009)

yup. the introduction was fine, they're not fighting anymore, they're playing nice  but little Edward is still nipping at me. i think maybe it's just me he likes to bite. is there anything i should do when he bites me besides pull away and say "no"? (because that doesn't seem to work  )


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

You can eep loudly, that is rat language for "Ow stop that!". It often works.


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## jonwascovich (Jan 26, 2009)

uh...i don't know what you mean by "eeep". and now barack is biting me 
edit: also, barack is VERY hyper and jumpy. whenever i go to pet him he jumps and runs. edward doesn't do this, and i've had them the same amount of time. also: i tried my interpretation of the "eep" thing and it didn't work, they continued biting me.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

High ptiched, rather loud "eeeeep"...they often stop and look at you when you do it. If you aren't sure how loud to do it, start off and raise the volume.

How old are they?


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## jonwascovich (Jan 26, 2009)

they were labeled "medium" so i guess not that young but not too old either. they look to be maybe 6-8" each without the tail.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Mouthy teenagers maybe?


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## jonwascovich (Jan 26, 2009)

heh, i hope that's it. anyway the eeping doesn't seem to be working. should i maybe wear gloves while handling them/giving them food, or won't that work seeing as how they might not pick up my scent?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

jonwascovich said:


> heh, i hope that's it. anyway the eeping doesn't seem to be working. should i maybe wear gloves while handling them/giving them food, or won't that work seeing as how they might not pick up my scent?


how exactly do they behave? Do they run up to you, nip and run away?


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## jonwascovich (Jan 26, 2009)

they'll be standing there. i put my hand up to them. they sniff it, then nip me. i do the eep thing. they don't acknowledge it, they just nip me again. i pull a little away while eeping again. they walk up to my hand and nip it more. i end the session. even if i have food in my palm, they'll still nip my hand instead of taking the food. my hand still doesn't have a scent to it.
they both do this, but when barack moves he moves extremely fast and is jumpy, edward moves normally. i don't know what's going on any more lol.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

You haven't had them long right?

Offer them the back of your hand, its harder to nip. Do you jump or make a noise when they nip? Some looove the reaction they get. I call them Cheeky Nippers. Is it a light nip or is it harder? Or is it one that starts light and gets progressively harder?


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## jonwascovich (Jan 26, 2009)

no i haven't had them long. i jump sometimes and i make the noise. they go in, with a light nip, then if i don't move the go in for a harder nip until i move away. the sound doesn't do ANYTHING.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

jonwascovich said:


> no i haven't had them long. i jump sometimes and i make the noise. they go in, with a light nip, then if i don't move the go in for a harder nip until i move away. the sound doesn't do ANYTHING.


sounds like time for socialization. Lemme get back to you later on. I have to go pick up my biter boy from the vets (he was neutered a couple of hours ago).


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## jonwascovich (Jan 26, 2009)

alright, when you get back tell me your socialization tips or whatever you think will help
edit: i tried putting on gloves. thick gloves. i could feel the bites through the gloves! i tried picking up barack but he just kept biting me (not nipping, biting) and i know there is no smell on the gloves. what do i do? 

edit 2: should i maybe just let them bite the gloves until they realize there's no point to it? or won't they get it?


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## zoe9 (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm going to leave lilspaz to handle this one as I've never actually had to deal with a new rat who was a biter, however I did read something recently that I thought was interesting and that might be helpful in your case, especially in light of the last question you have asked.

If a rat is biting you to try and dominate you or to get you to move away the advice was to NOT move your hand away. I know the instinct is to withdraw if you're being nipped, but if you withdraw they learn that nipping works. However if you don't withdraw they learn (hopefully!) that there is no point nipping or biting because it doesn't achieve anything.

Having never tried this I don’t know if it works or not but I thought I'd mention it because it does seem logical enough.

Anyway good luck with it all.


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## jonwascovich (Jan 26, 2009)

i haven't been moving my hand away, i've been just letting it there hoping they stop. it's not working


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## Tiger_grrrrl (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm sure I read a couple of years ago when I was reseaching for info before I got my first rats that it's a dominance thing and you should prove your dominance. They suggested a rough (not painfull or damaging, just forceful) bit of scrathing around the scruff of the neck, kind of like what a dominant rat sometimes does to the underlings. I don't know what other people think of this, I've never had to do it.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

That method has to be done just right, or you could get badly bitten.

What I am having trouble determining is if these boys are just being cheeky, naughty mouthy monkeys and "trying it on" or if they are cage territorial, or getting a bit hormonally aggressive.

Naughty rats don't know any better, and can nip very hard. If they nip and run they are being monkey's, but if they nip, then bite down harder and harder, they are telling you to back off. Definitely respect that. With intact boys I am very careful when scratching rumps and backs...these are places that are considered an attack from another rat. A male rat will hump and then bite down on these plays as a sign of dominance. When they are hormonal (like Dudley) they are irrational and go into rages and can bite badly. Never let your boys mount your hand, first they will straddle it, then they will dig and the digging will become biting...they can get carried away fast. When working with biters, the goal is to NOT let them bite. The longer between bites/nips the better. I often sit on the couch and when they come near, I smoothly move my tasty hands away from them...not a pull back just an avoidance. I have tucked my hands under my arms, etc. You could try the yummy liquidy treat on the spoon, lots of reassuring talk, "good boy...*insert name here*", and if they do nip, change your tone, eeping's not working, so try N, loud and low. If you do get bitten, try not to pull away because of the incisors curving backwards you could hurt yourself even more without them meaning to.
I often do a running commentary and when a rat is being good, my tone reflects it, when they are bad, my tone changes....as long as they aren't truly aggressive, they often figure out what I want.

OK to reiterate.

Do they bite in cage? 
Do they bite outside of cage? 
Do they come up to you, bite and run?
Do they huff and puff and sidle up to you or each other?
Do they rub their forepaws on the ground and rub their sides on objects?


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## jonwascovich (Jan 26, 2009)

yes
no, when i'm holding them they're mainly trying to get away
no, they stay there and try to bite again. when they bite they don't continually bite harder anymore, now they bite a little here and there
no
no


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Good!! Not aggressive, just unsocialized.  Much easier to work with. Can you post a pic of your rats so I can see what "medium" is? It would help if there's something in there for size comparison.

If you don't know how, just email it to me and I'll post it for you.
[email protected]


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## XxToxicTouch1xX (Feb 2, 2009)

we've had a rat who bit at anything like fingers or hands that went near him...but we later found out he was blind o_0
so u might want to look into that.

and also, if u give them treats and snacks often, they might not know the difference between hand and treats. and they nip to try and taste it or figure out rather or not its edible. Cuz if they wanted to bite you, they wouldnt nip, they'd draw blood. so im pretty sure they just take sample bites lol. Try washing ur hands before you try to handle them to get rid or any possible food smell...dont use scented soap tho! that might not help much lol. but try ur hardest to get any smell of food off ur hands, and try something like, hiding their treats in their cages, instead of handing it to them with ur hands. Rats love searching for treats anyways. digging around in their bedding and climbing around and discovering tastey hidden snacks is like a big yummy game to them. Try that to get them not so used to your hand being the treat tray, because i dont think they know the difference between flesh and food. espeically if theres a smell of food on ur hands/finger tips from handleing the food. =) hope this helps


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

XxToxicTouch1xX said:


> we've had a rat who bit at anything like fingers or hands that went near him...but we later found out he was blind o_0
> so u might want to look into that.


I think it would be very unlikely for both of the rats to be blind.


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## myboys2 (Jul 7, 2008)

I wish I had some advice for you but I do not. I currently live with four nasty teenage rat boys who love nothing better than to bristle up and act rotten. My newest addition has made a habit of biting my ears when he's free ranging on the couch. He lets me love on him and will crawl around on me but when he's on my shoulder *chomp*. 

I wish you the best of luck. I've seen people talk about how their rats give kisses but I've decided to no longer hold my breath.


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