# Rat Gasping for Air and on Oxygen- Need Advice



## nether (May 25, 2010)

Hi. I have a question regarding one of my rats. He is currently hospitalized and on oxygen. He has been taking meds for URI for months now but just recently got much worse. He has been on Baytril, Doxy, Baytril and Doxy combo, Zithromax, Zithro and Baytril combo, Zithro and Doxy combo and Chloramphenicol. He was also being nebulized. He had a very serious gasping attack the other day and was rushed to the doctor. He was instantly put on oxygen. The doc said he had shallow breathing but seemed stable for the remainer of the day. He stayed at the hospital overnight.The next day his health declined tremendously according to the staff. He had to be put on oxygen 24/7 and he had stopped eating and drinking. He had become dehydrated. Xrays confirmed that he had fluid in the spaces surrounding his lungs and his heart appeared to be more angular than round meaning that maybe something was pushing against his heart (fluid or something else). The doctor was not sure if he had an infection or a heart condition or possibly a tumor. The doctors said that his lungs actually looked clear and does not have the "usual" rat pneumonia.

The doctors started giving him another antibiotic today (an injectable), not sure which one and also lasix. He is also being nebulized. The doctor said results from the lasix should be seen in about 4 hours. It has been about six hours now and there has been no improvement in his breathing. He has eaten some baby food on his own but not much. The doctor says that we may want to put him to sleep since his prognosis is poor and we believe him to be an older rat-maybe 2yrs old now and does not know what his quality of life would be even if he recovered somewhat. She states she will stop treating him if he gets any worse.Would results from the lasix really be seen within 4 hours? Would his breathing improve noticeably from the lasix? If results are normally seen within 4 hours then I think that maybe putting him to sleep would be the best thing to do since he is not responding to the antibiotics. He is currently being sedated to help his breathing. He looks terrible and is really struggling to breathe even on oxygen. Should I have him put to sleep to stop his suffering or should I give him more time? What would you do or what have you done in a similiar situation? I know it is a choice that I will have to make myself but any advice would greatly appreciated at this point.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

He had fluid surrounding his lungs? But not in them? ... did you vet mention any option of having it drained? 

Hmmm I'd be tempted to get another opinion or go see a specialist. Maybe steroids and pain meds might help your boy I'm not sure as I've never personally dealt with it. But when his time comes he'll let you know... the life will go out of his eyes and thats when its time for you to help him over the rainbow bridge. Good luck to both you and your boy... keep us updated.


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## nether (May 25, 2010)

Yeah, that was the strange part. The fluid is in the spaces surrounding his lungs not actually in his lungs. Pleural effusion is what they call it? The doctor said if it were a larger animal then she could take the fluid out but she states that she is not willing to attempt it on such a small animal since there are numerous veins and blood vessels in that area that could get punctured....sigh. I think he is pretty bad if he can barely breathe even on oxygen and while sedated...Also, I don't think he could make it to a specialist- there is a certified exotic vet a couple hours away but he wouldn't survive the trip I don't think. These people here are "supposedly" the specialists in the area since they are an avian and exotic clininc specifically.....


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Did they say what causes it? Wheres Lilspaz when you need her knowledge  I couldn't find much info on the internet either that I could understand. Any neurological injuries? heart issues? 

I don't want to say give up on him yet, because for all I know there may be a treatment for it. If hes not given up yet, keep fighting with him


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

the only thing I can think of to try is heart meds to see if your boy does have a heart issue. The lasix can help with the fluid buildup but he must be kept hydrated and the addition of a heart med like enalapril, etc would tell you very quickly if you can rule that out. If you believe he is suffering too much, I would have your poor lad pts. I am so so sorry.


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## laughingrats (Apr 21, 2010)

It's odd they said it wasn't the typical ratty Pneumonia because all his symptoms sound like it is. Could be that they are used to seeing early cases of Pneumonia, and not the severe ones. Pleural effusion occurs in sever cases of Pneumonia. Have you noticed his feet and tail have a blue tinge to them?

Viruses such as SDA and Sendai can also act in conjunction with Mycoplasma overwhelming the immune system, and leading to the development of pneumonia. Have you been in contact with other rats than your own?

You could take the next step and get radiography exam of the lungs.

Whatever he has that's affecting his lungs, I don't think he's going to come out of this unscathed. His lungs will be scarred, and will hurt when he breaths. I don't want to tell you to give up now, but his quality of life is diminishing. If it is Pneumonia he will require long term antibiotic therapy.


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## nether (May 25, 2010)

Well, I had him pts. And I feel really terrible about it because it may have been my fault all along. I just kept thinking about his illness over and over again and think that maybe he had aspiration pneumonia? The gasping attack started when he was eating some baby food and I remember now that I had put a little bit of powdered ginger in his food because I heard it was good for lung issues. I think the ginger powder was too clumpy and concentrated....I didn't stir it in enough and maybe the ginger was too much for him and maybe he was choking because of it and aspirated? He was gasping for air for about ten minutes and then stopped. I took him to the doctor immediately and he looked back to normal when I left. 

The x-ray showing the fluid arround his lungs was taken immediately after I brought him in that day. Is it possible that the pleural effusion was caused by him choking on the ginger or his food? Would fluid have built up that quickly? I read on the internet that pleural pneumonia symptoms usually show up after 24-48 after choking. The staff at the vet's office say that he didn't start looking bad until the following day. 

He had already been diagnosed with pneumonia prior to this event, he had been making all kinds of rattley chest noises for a couple weeks and was short of breath whenever her ate. However just a couple days prior, the chesty noises had stopped and I thought maybe he was getting better even though he had lost a lot of weight and still had difficulty breathing. I asked the doctor if it could have been aspiration pneumonia that caused his demise. Maybe the pleural effusion didn't cause any symptoms at all. The doctor stated that she did not think that aspiration pneumonia was the cause but she didn't give me any valid reasons why she felt that way. I think that the doctor does not want to admit that I killed him due to stupidity on my part. I tasted the ginger later and it did burn my throat. I will never know what truly happened to him but I think it may have been aspiration pneumonia. Has anyone had any experience with this?. Do you think that may have been the cause? Or something else? I miss my boy sooo much.....


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

I really wouldn't put any blame on your shoulders. Ginger does help relieve URI symptoms and you likely gave him a little bit of relief. If he chocked it could of been ue to a million things, enjoying the food too much, the muscles in his throat not functioning properly. It could also just be a coincidence. Either way, do you really think that when you do get to see him again, that he will put any blame on you? Of course not, you gave him a good ratty life, lots of love and you let him go so he did not have to suffer any more.


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## laughingrats (Apr 21, 2010)

> I really wouldn't put any blame on your shoulders. Ginger does help relieve URI symptoms and you likely gave him a little bit of relief. If he chocked it could of been ue to a million things, enjoying the food too much, the muscles in his throat not functioning properly. It could also just be a coincidence. Either way, do you really think that when you do get to see him again, that he will put any blame on you? Of course not, you gave him a good ratty life, lots of love and you let him go so he did not have to suffer any more.


Exactly what Ema said, you can't blame yourself. The ginger wouldn't of caused the aspiration, he would of been aspirating already. You gave him the best life he could of possibly had. It was his time, and I think you did the right thing by not letting his health diminish any further. If he did get worse, you probably would of felt horrible for not putting him to sleep sooner. You are very brave for making this decision, I know it can be a hard choice. Please don't beat yourself up about it, and remember all the good times you had with him. R.I.P little guy.


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## nether (May 25, 2010)

Thank you so much you guys for your kind words. I am thankful to be part of such a caring community. I do not have any friends other than my boyfriend that share my passion for animals so there is no one I can turn to except for you guys. I am trying not to be so hard on myself. It will take time I guess.....


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