# Cross Breeding?



## Serinidia (Jan 16, 2014)

My curiosity has been provoked after reading about Gambien Pouched Rats. They seem to make great pets and are much larger than fancy rats.

Now to get to the point of my rambling; you can cross breed other animals of the same species. Is it possible to cross fancy rats with gambien rats? I am sure the results would vary but my hope would be to introduce a longer living medium sized rat. Also if the colors and patterns from fancy rats could be reproduced in the hybrids that would only add to the appeal. At least I think it would? 

What do you guys think?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

My first thought was one of my rats encountering a larger version of itself...someone is gonna die...


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## Phantom (Apr 4, 2012)

While I think it wouldn't be such a bad idea for future rats I think nanashi is right. The two wouldn't be able to live together because the pouched rat is much larger. Pouched rats are also solitary animals I think.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

We do not allow the discussion of intentional breeding here on this forum, as stated by our rules. http://www.ratforum.com/showthread....-Rules-READ-BEFORE-POSTING-Updated-12-04-2012

Please tread lightly around this subject! While it may be biologically possible, discussing the details will cause this thread to be locked.


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## Korra (Dec 11, 2011)

I also do not think they are closely enough related genetically. I mean Brown rats(pet rats) cant even cross with black rats or house mice(pet mice) who are all pretty closely related. 
I just looked it up and they arent even in the same genetic family. That is quite alot of separation genetically.

Pouched Rat

Kingdom:AnimaliaPhylum:ChordataClass:MammaliaOrder:RodentiaSuperfamily:MuroideaFamily:NesomyidaeSubfamily:CricetomyinaeGenus:_Cricetomys_Species:_*C. gambianus*_
 
Brown Rat 
Kingdom:AnimaliaPhylum:ChordataSubphylum:VertebrataClass:MammaliaOrder:RodentiaFamily:MuridaeSubfamily:MurinaeGenus:_Rattus_Species:_*R. norvegicus*_



I also looked up the number of chromosomes each species has and the pouched rat has "reported a *chromosome number of* 2n = 80" while the brown rat has 2n=42. This would not be even remotely possible for this to animals to make a hybrid and several chromosomes are left to pair up with nothing during sex cell division. Most hybrid animals only differ by one set of chromosomes meaning the hybrid is viable but sterile.


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## Serinidia (Jan 16, 2014)

I wasn't trying to break the rules, I do not plan on attempting such a breeding but I was just thinking hypothetically.

And that is a shame, it would have been neat.


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## Sylver (Sep 5, 2013)

Wouldn't be possible. They're cool looking things though, and apparently live longer. Surely wouldn't want one mad at you, they've got immense fangs!


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## JudeWriley (Aug 1, 2007)

You sort of answered it yourself. You can only breed animals of the same species. As gambian pouched rats aren't the same species of Norway rats, even if you tried the results wouldn't be viable or fertile of it survived at all.


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## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

Is the Gambien Pouched Rat what Big Ben was on Willard? They look like that rat in the face.

Like mentioned before, they have to be in the same family to breed... Like dogs and wolves... or cats with servals, bobcats or Asian leopard cats.


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## Korra (Dec 11, 2011)

JudeWriley said:


> You sort of answered it yourself. You can only breed animals of the same species. As gambian pouched rats aren't the same species of Norway rats, even if you tried the results wouldn't be viable or fertile of it survived at all.


Not exactly true. You CAN breed animals that arent in the same species but they usually have to be in the same genus. Also, they generally do not make offspring that can reproduce. Examples include ligers, mules, tigons, and wolphins. These are all the results of species crossing with each other and create offspring that is unable to reproduce due to chromosomal differences. NOTE: Wolves and dogs can interbreed and create viable offspring because they are technically still the same species/sub-species. Canines are very good at interbreeding.


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## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

The female hybrids can breed. Its the males that are sterile until the fourth or fifth generation.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

One answer to your question is no... even closely related rat species don't crossbreed as far as I've seen it in literature... In fact with rats being so prevalent world wide one would think if it's possible it would have happened.

But the other answer to your question is that there are hundreds of intelligent rodent that may live longer than brown rats. Last I heard Gambian pouched rats were no longer being imported but there may be someone breeding them in the US so they might still be an option.

Brown rats have a short life and this is no accident, they reproduce quickly and the older members of their society need to make way for the younger ones. Rats get smarter as they get older and it's easy to see where wise old rats would easily out-compete their offspring. Given that kind of scenario you would wind up with an old non- reproductive population of rats that would eventually die out ending the species. 

Worth mentioning and well beyond the concept of home breeding... Genetic labs have located two genes in mice that once knocked out double the mouse's anticipated life span. So it appears that in mice there are actually genes specifically there to stop mice from getting too old, and likely the same will be found in rats. Perhaps those freaky cases of 6 year old rats are just rats with one of both of those genes screwed up... 

The problem is that if "knock out" rats that live for 6 or more years ever get out of captivity and into the general population they could devastate wild rat populations in a decade. First they would likely cause overpopulation where they would out-compete their younger short lived contemporaries and then die off leaving no next generation to take their place.

This kind of disaster actually happened with a genetically enhanced tropical fish that was introduced into the wild. It seemed like a great idea until the local populations crashed. What humans perceive as a genetic enhancement might not appeal to mother nature at all. 

As much as I would love to have rats that live for 6 or more years, I can see where they would pose a real danger to the species as a whole. And you and I might be careful not to release them, but imagine if a city like New York realized that there was a way of wiping out rats by letting some GMO rats lose in the subways, like sterile fruit-flies, can we really trust people or governments not to do it? The fish that were released into the wild were supposed to eat more mosquitoes, now with the native populations decimated there are more mosquitoes than ever... 

Lastly, every pet has it's up and down sides, while some folks reported that the Gambian pouched rats made great pets other folks reported that they were nightmares as in generally less domestic, more aggressive and very destructive. You seriously need to consider when choosing another rodent for it's perceived benefits you don't open yourself up to it's shortcomings too. And as I recall, Gambian rats are no longer imported because they pose a danger to American native wild life... think walking catfish, starlings, gypsy moths, nutrias and of course brown and black rats....


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