# A LONG story and lots of questions!



## LisaPizza (Nov 7, 2012)

So I guess I'll start right back at the beginning. I have 2 female rats, ("boys" that turned out to be girls which is why they still have boy names) Basil and George. Basil is very obviously the dominant one of the two, and George just follows her around and copies her like an adoring little fan (they are sisters). I recently took in 3 males rats to look after while my friend (their human) went on holiday, Rex, an agouti rex, Mouse, a black berkshire, and Gyro, an irish (I think). Now until a few days ago, I thought that my girls were high whites so (as well as many other reasons such as space, time and background info), I was absolutely determined not to let them near each other to prevent them mating. (I made a different post earlier as I was curious as to what colour babies there might be if they were to breed - I know this probably makes me look suspicious but I made that post to sate my curiosity so that I wouldn't be tempted!).

Now as soon as I brought the boys cage through the door my girls went crazy. I live in VERY a small house (I'm currently at Uni studying Animal Husbandry and Welfare) so I put the boys upstairs and kept the girls downstairs (my house is basically an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs room with a tiny bathroom and kitchen). As my house is so small I'm sure they could smell each other, and to my surprise, the girls seemed a lot more keen to get to the boys than the boys were to get to them. Every time I opened the girls door they'd be trying to shove my hand out of the way, and it was difficult to let them have play time without them getting away, but I managed it. 

So then I went down to my parents house for the holidays, taking both sets of rats with me. My brother and sister loved them and were constantly bugging me to get them out all the time, so I did as much as possible. One day when I went to get the girls out my mind must have been elsewhere, as Basil managed to slip past me and escape. I had no idea where she had gone (my parents house is significantly bigger, and there were a lot of hiding places like under the piano/bookshelves etc), so I waited, watched and listened until I heard a little scratchy noise coming from a room nearby. I found her in the same room that the boys were in (all 3 boys securely in their cage but very interested) and managed to catch her and put her back. 

Of course ever since then I've been increasingly paranoid that Basil is pregnant. At first I was sure I was just over-paranoid about it, and she can't have been in the room with them for more than 10 minutes, but I did some research on whether rats can mate through the bars, and apparently it's a very controversial subject, with some people adamant that it happened to them, and some people certain that it wouldn't be possible. 

Well I made a note of the date she escaped, and have been monitoring ever since, and have felt SO conflicted over the signs I've been noticing. Firstly, I thought she was getting larger (because I was paranoid, or she was because she was overeating, or because she was pregnant I don't know). Secondly, she seemed increasingly lethargic, when she'd usually be running around all over the place. However she hadn't made anything that resembled a nest, and hadn't lost any hair around her nipples (I think I expected it to happen straight away but now I know better). Well anyway it's been 18 days since her escape, and on inspection today I think I'm pretty sure she is pregnant. She looks noticeably rounder instead of just larger, and I read that some rats don't show any symptoms until the day before they give birth. 

So TL ; DR - my rat escaped 18 days ago and might be pregnant and here are the questions I have:

- From your experience, can rats mate through the bars? Or do I need to interrogate my siblings?
- I have moved Basil (preggers) and George to a smaller cage with no levels/hammocks etc so she can't fall or anything, is it alright to use Carefresh bedding? (She has a few boxes and nesting material too).
- Should I keep George in with her? Basil has always been the boss, and they are sisters. I feel like George would be lost without her but want to make sure the babies will be alright.
- If I should take George out, when should I do it? I don't want to separate them for longer than necessary.
- How early can rats give birth? As in would it be abnormal for her to give birth at less than 21 days gestation? Would the babies be underdeveloped?
- She hasn't made a nest or anything, is this normal?
- She looks rounder but only by a little bit, I thought she'd be bigger by now, is that normal? (Both the girls have always been quite small anyway).
- If she does have babies, when is it alright to touch them? On the forum guide it says to leave them for 2/3 days, but I've read a lot of different stuff like that you can hold them right away if the mother trusts you?

So yeah that's about it, I'm sure I'll think of more questions later, these past few weeks have been rife with paranoia and confusion on my part, and I was so scared that my girls were high whites until I put a picture of them up on here so at least I know they're not now  Thanks in advance for any help, I will try to get a picture of Basil and make a baby thread if (or when!) it happens.


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## Rumy91989 (Dec 31, 2012)

1) Absolutely not--the mechanics of mating make it basically impossible for rats to mate through bars. In my experience, when people insist that this happened it means they don't want to admit what really happened. So if you are telling the truth and the boys were in the cage the whole time, there is no way your gal is pregnant. You have absolutely nothing to worry about.
2) Some rats *can* stay together to help each other out with litters but it's much too big of a risk. If you're still convinced Basil is pregnant (even though, if your story is true she definitely is not) I'd separate them now just in case. 
3) So yes, separate her now. 
4) Rats can give birth a few days early, but 21 days is usually when it happens. I think between 20 and 23 days is the range normally given.
5) Not nesting is not really normal behavior, especially if she's in her final week of pregnancy. That's another sign that she is not.
6) Generally when rats are about to give birth it's very, very obvious that they are pregnant. If she's just looking a tad rounder I'd say that's vote #3 for not pregnant.
7) In the highly unlikely event that she does give birth you can handle them whenever she lets you. As she's your pet and trusts you, that can be from day one on. You just have to read her to see how she feels about it. 

Really I don't think there's any way your girl can be pregnant and from what you've described it doesn't even sound like she's displaying symptoms. We tend to get hysterical about these things when there's a chance a mistake has happened. I know that from experience; I'm fostering two potentially pregnant mice who have a VERY VERY low chance of being pregnant but I've convinced myself everything they do is a sign that babies are on the way. I can pretty much guarantee it's all in your head and there's absolutely nothing to worry about, but kudos to you for being prepared just in case.


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## bbrats (Jan 21, 2013)

Don't have experience with pregnant rats. But I just thought I'd answer your first question. Yes I have read before that rats can mate through bars. I also thought I read somewhere on the forum that you an keep rats together if they have been cage mates for a while, liek in your case with them being sisters. But I'm not completely sure about that. I'm sure other people on the forum will be able to help more haha. Other people on the forum will probably be able to help tell you if she is pregnant for sure if you post a picture of her also


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## bbrats (Jan 21, 2013)

Hahah nevermind. Go by what Rumy says hahaha


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## LisaPizza (Nov 7, 2012)

Thank you both  I'll take George out today just in case, but even today she doesn't look much bigger than yesterday, so I probably did just imagine it after all  Thanks again


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## j_kalman (Apr 14, 2013)

I agree... if it's day 18 and she isn't obviously pregnant, chances are slim to none. When my girls were pregnant it was VERY obvious the week before they gave birth. They looked like they swallowed tennis balls. They didn't make nests until they were ready to pop though.


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## LisaPizza (Nov 7, 2012)

I don't know if I'm just still over exaggerating it in my head, but Basils nipples look more obvious today. I put in extra bedding material so I can see if she does anything with it so I'll give an update later. 
One more question - I've read stories about how rat owners didn't even know their girls were pregnant until they found babies..how likely is it for a rat to show almost no signs (except slight weight gain) when pregnant right up until the birth?


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## Hephaestion (Jan 27, 2013)

Any babies?


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## LisaPizza (Nov 7, 2012)

Nope she's in the clear  Just me being crazy!


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