# Tail Problem!



## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

I posted 3 weeks ago about my boy. His tail had a big scab on it and a bunch of tiny little scabs. It looked like mites with the big scab being an infected bite/scratch but he had no scabs on his body.

Went to the vet 2 weeks ago yesterday, got them all treated for mites. The other 2 had a few small scabs that developed the 2 days before I visited the vet. He scraped the infected tail and put him on antibiotics after speaking to his friend, who he said specialized with rats. The vet said he found no parasites (but we still treated for mites because the few small scabs on the other boy) and said it may be a skin infection or the failure of an organ (the organ failure was the specialist's idea).

After 1 week of antibiotics and removing the scab in the infected area (allowing the puss to drain), the tail started to look a lot better. This past week though another spot has appeared and its bigger but in a different spot. The little scabs have returned to the tail as well and he is feeling like ****.

I can tell he is ill because he is the most active explorer known to all rat owners, but he has been sleeping non-stop and relaxing in my arms. He also has some sneezes every now and then too. I figure his immune system is allowing the resp. infection to take over.

The good news (if you want to push it) is the other boys are completely fine. When he does wake up to play he is 100% as agile as he has ever been and looks normal in terms of flexibility and jumping distances.

I have attached a picture and I am visiting the vet tomorrow for the follow-up mite treatment.

Please let me know if you have seen this.


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## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

update: i tried to drain the abscess and apply hydrogen peroxide into the wound but i ended up removing the scab on accident. there was no blood involved but there is a large open wound. will this be okay through the night?

he also began to defecate and blood began showing from his rear. the droppings had a putrid smell, were light in color and a tad soft. was this a defense mechanism? he was getting pretty scared and trying to get away while soaking the tail with a hot rag.

seems like there are so many things going wrong for this guy and he is being a trooper through all of it. this is breaking my heart.

thanks for reading this.


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## Wimbo (Nov 21, 2008)

I do not know what it is, but if it were on a person I would think it was eczema or dermatitis. Good luck and I hope he feels better quick!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

What abs is he on?


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## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

Hey,
He was on Baytril (sp) and I cannot remember the other.

The following Friday (after I removed the scab on Sunday), the abscess was healing very well. The large hole filled in with a light scab and slowly built its way up. 

He was treated with a second dose of Revolution. The scabs started to fade and his ears were instantly better.

A week and 4-5 days later his tail is bad again. There is a black dot on the underside and the area around it is kinda spongey, as if there is puss under it and another abscess is forming.

The vet cannot figure it out. He seemed legit at first, but now he doesn't seem to care. He brushed it off as if the poor guy is okay and didn't really want to deal with me.

He said he called his rat specialist friend and the guy said it could be internal organ failure.

He's got a little bit of a wet bottom now (which has been on and off for the past 2 months) and you can tell he's not feeling as good as he was last week right after the Revolution treatment.



What would you all do? Just keep spending $15/week on revolution?

They won't sell it to me, they want to dose it themselves because they want to be in full control and have me coming back for $70 visits.


The other 2 boys are 100% healthy. No mites on anybody's skins. I also clean the cage every other day as well as spot cleaning twice a day.

???


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## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

I would seek another vet's advice in another clinic who will teach you how to treat your rat so you don't have to pay for all the visits.


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## Kellye (Apr 25, 2008)

Hello. I was reading an artical and came across this info and thought it's a possibility that this is your rats problem. I am by NO means a vet and am not certified in any way to give advice that means a thing but it was my best guess:

Seed mixes formulated for rats and parrots are fine as a supplement to the staple diet, but should not be the sole diet. These mixes often contain items that go to waste, such as alfalfa pellets and tiny seeds. They also do not provide complete nutrition, and contain a lot of seeds and nuts that are high in fat, which can cause obesity and protein problems (where the rat will become itchy, and scabs will develop).

Borrowed and Cited from: http://www.ratsrule.com/ratcare.html


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## ratastic (Jul 1, 2007)

How's the lil guy doing?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Revolution is a once a month treatment, or possibly re-dosing at 2-3 weeks for a really bad case., not weekly. 

Forget the scabs the blood coming from his rear is alarming. Has that happened again?

He may have multiple abscesses and your best bet for the tail is a very warm salty sitz bath, that will draw all the infection to the surface.


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## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

couple of notes. i'm just listing stuff off the top of my head and some observations to help isolate the problem and better explain his living situation. keep in mind he is not squeeking a lot, doesn't seem to be in a lot of pain, but his tail and ears are being agitated.


1. he was on seeds from March 2007 to July 2008. My girl and I didn't know any better.

2. the antibiotics are done - droppings smell better

3. moved from fresh food in aug/sep/half of oct to mazuri blocks in oct/nov/dec.

*i am moving to regal rat this week

4. abscesses are coming from within the tail and from the him chewing. besides the one big one, there is a small spot on the tail where another big one could be developing. 

i can tell they are coming from within because they will start as just spongey/raised areas with no marks or scabs on top. some of the other scabs look as though they may be from his nibbling on the tail though.

he has small scabs that are VERY raised and they are easily removed/rubbed off because the way the scales/plates of the skin simply let them pull up and out. when done, this leaves an open wound - no blood, just a hole in the tail. i try not to do this but i have removed a few to clean them out.

5. the ears were VERY crusty before the last treatment of Revolution. the following week, ears were clear. they are crusty again and he sits still to let me scratch them and rub some dead skin or thin scabs off (cannot tell exactly what is coming off)

6. his PEW cagemate since July 2007 is VERY protective of him when they are in their dome sleeping. *this is probably the number one indicator that something is wrong. every morning he is waiting for me at the cage door ready for his breakfast and maybe a quick free-range but some mornings now he doesn't get out of bed and when i go to check on him, the PEW blocks the door and has nipped at me.

7. the cage is all towels changed every 2 days, spot cleaned twice a day and cleaned with a solution of diluted vinegar/hydrogen peroxide.

8. they are given some fresh snacks every now and then

9. i have caught him nibbling on his tail, but he is very gentle with it.

10. he is still VERY active when i let him out to free-range. this is good. it doesn't seem to be causing any pain when he's moving around.

11. he has NEVER been a lap-rat. he is an avid explorer, building mental maps of very detailed proportions. BUT he has begun to sit on me and let me examine the tail - as if to say help. 

12. my girlfriend works in a hospital and she has suggested it could be a virus - as she commonly sees patients where only one part of their body is affected, leaving other parts perfectly in-tact.


thanks for everyone who has provided input. i'm having a really hard time dealing with this. it eats away at me whenever i have a moment to think. looking at the bright side, it makes me appreciate every day i spend with him and i know i'm doing the best i can.

i really don't want to go to another vet, but i probably should. this last guy acted so genuine the first 2 visits, conning me into spending a lot of money and i only saw his true colors when i returned for a free check-up. i know he runs a business, but pets are family members.



someone mentioned excema (sp?) - is this possible in rats? is it contagious? that will eliminate the possibility bc the 2 cagemates are perfectly healthy.


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## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

found this reading online, i'm going to look into the fungal infection as well as the dry skin. i quoted those parts down below the link.

what do you guys think?

http://www.ratfanclub.org/skin.html

"Fungus

If your rat hasn’t responded to the ivermectin or the prednisone, the only thing left is to treat your rat for a fungal infection. Like the skin scraping for mites, biopsies or skin scrapings for fungus often yield a false negative. Therefore, you must try the treatment.

The fungus infections that can grow on the skin are commonly called ringworm, because of the red ring they can cause on human skin. Ringworm is very contagious and can be passed from humans to other animals and back again. Rats who have a fungal infection of the skin don’t always show symptoms. If your rat does have a skin lesion, you can try an over-the-counter cream such as Lotrimin. Antifungal shampoos don’t seem to work.



For a rat who has widespread lesions, or for a rat who shows no skin lesions at all, you should use an oral fungicide. For griseofulvin the dose is 12-25 mg/lb twice a day for at least 4-6 weeks. Give griseofulvin with a meal that includes fat. For ketoconazole (Nizoral) the dose is 4 mg/lb three times a day for at least 3-4 weeks. With either treatment you should see improvement in 1-2 weeks. In some cases treatment may be needed for up to 3 months. Program may also be an effective treatment for fungus (veterinarians are still not sure of this.) Because fungus thrives on sugar, a rat with a fungal infection should receive only limited amount of sugar (including fruit) in his diet.



Dry Skin

While oily dandruff is normal in intact males, dry skin and dandruff can be symptom of a poor diet. If your rat is getting an adequate diet, try giving a supplement containing essential fatty acids. Dry dandruff can also occur in rats with hindquarter paralysis since they can't groom themselves normally. *If the humidity in the air is too low, it usually affects the tail rather than the skin. *This can prevent the dead skin cells on the tail from shedding properly resulting in patches of scaly skin and discoloration. The solution is to run a humidifier in the room.

Ringtail is a skin problem caused by dehydration that is occasionally seen in baby or hairless rats, and rarely in haired adults. Dehydration can occur if baby or hairless rats are kept on litter that is too absorbent (commonly corn cob litter) or in any rat if the water bottle malfunctions. In babies ringtail causes a constriction at the base of the tail. In adults it can cause a moist oozing sore at the base of the tail. The problem usually goes away when the rats are rehydrated, although if the problem is bad enough a baby may lose part of her tail."


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

You mentioned his ears?

Crusty? Hmmm...do they look anything like this rat's?
http://ratguide.com/health/figures/ectoparasites_figure_2.php

This condition of sarcoptic mange is popping up more and more I have noticed. I really should keep Sunny's case history in favorites :

_Demodex spp., and Notoedres muris (a sarcoptid-like mite), both transmit mange. Deomodex spp. can be found anywhere on the skin but are primarily found on hair follicles and sebaceous glands of the ears. Notoedres muris (also termed the ear mange mite) burrows into skin, and presents as yellowish crusty appearing warts on edges of ears and nose, or can appear on other extremities as reddened bumps. Both of these are not often seen in the domestic pet rat. _

Sarcoptic mange/mites will NOT be affected by Revolution but you would need to dose with Ivermectin. You can pick up the oral paste and dose him yourself at home. There's a ton of threads on here telling you how to do it properly 

I would try this first before going any further. I hope we figure this out for your baby.


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## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

lilspaz you are great. thanks for the input. they did not and still don't look that bad. his ears have actually smoothed out some, but they are still a little bumpy. his tail is more red towards his body and the scabs are slowly taking over the whole tail.

he is still VERY active but he is slowing down some in terms of when he wakes up, how quickly he runs to the door of the cage and his droppings have started to smell again. he has a slight case of "wet tail" again as well.


i am going to pick up some ivermectin to dose on my own and see where things go from there.

thanks.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

No problem weezy 

Is wet tail a type of diarrhea?

You could start him on the BRAT diet for that. Its good at firming up loose stools and really easy on ratty tums.

Banana
Rice (brown is best)
Applesauce
Toast

and/or a probiotic...I like live culture yogurt and they do too 

Do the sores look anything like these on my Sebbie's tail?


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## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

Yes they look similar, but more than just one.

Wet tail is a term I've heard with hamsters and other small animals, where the fur is damp with some discharge or diahrrea.

I dosed the ivermectin on Wednesday to my boy. He is still very active and the tail is looking "different". There are still sores, but the redness has gone away.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

weezy said:


> Yes they look similar, but more than just one.
> 
> Wet tail is a term I've heard with hamsters and other small animals, where the fur is damp with some discharge or diahrrea.
> 
> I dosed the ivermectin on Wednesday to my boy. He is still very active and the tail is looking "different". There are still sores, but the redness has gone away.


wet tail is a bacterial infection like diarrhea that can kill the hamsters,etc 

Yay! I have my fingers crossed that the Ivermectin works for him


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## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

*Re: Tail Problem! ***

hey,
just wanted to make an update. 

the ivermectin may have helped a tiny bit, but it certainly did not end the problem. the tail is still red, sore and breaking out with small abscesses.... BUT it is very mild compared to how it was before.

it actually appears as if the tail has "dried up" in the sense that there aren't any oozing scabs or big nasty holes in the tail.

**please read below!

but there is a new problem, he has a huge lump coming out of the side of his skull, below his eye, right behind the crease of the jaw. it is fairly hard, it feels like a large bone. it came up very quickly, as i handle them every day (holding, scritching, hand-wrestling and a lot of nudging)

also his butt is constantly secreting a light brown and dark red mix of blood/stool.. its very watery but foul smelling and constantly wet. i try to keep it as clean as possible.

i believe these are his last days. he is getting very skinny and sleepy. i'm thinking that i will let it go on for a few more days, but at this point i don't believe he will recover or have the strength to go on much longer.

at what point do you put an animal down? i understand how it works with dogs and cats, but this guy is so tough he will look so lethargic and worn down and then have a burst of energy where he can chase the dog around the room. 

i do not have a problem taking care of him in his somewhat senior age (2 years), i just don't want to draw out his life to the point of making him miserable because he hasn't given me a clear sign.

at this point i think i have become immune to the emotions because all the troubles he goes through every day make death seem more peaceful and relaxing.

thanks for reading my post and thanks to lilspaz.


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

Has he not been to a vet?? It sounds like he has a lot of problems going on that definately need seeing to.


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## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

multiple visits to the vet, all producing no answers and many failed attempts to treat him.

for some reason no one in this area is very interested in rats.


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

You could try posting your location and see if anyone on here knows of a good vet in your area, perhaps even make a new thread about it. Hopefully someone will be able to recommend somewhere and your lil one can get some help. Good luck!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

He has so many issues right now, its almost like his immune system has broken down.

But lets go beyond his illnesses/conditions.

Is he eating well, drinking, active enough for an older rat?

Are his eyes still bright almost all the time (not just when you are in the room). I had one boy who would be so happy to see me he would be energetic and bright, but if I snuck back in the room and he didn't know, he looked unhappy. I let him go soon after.

The eyes are the windows of the soul even in rats. Are they flat or dull?
He sounds very unwell especially now with the bloody diarrhea. You might want to consider humane euthanasia before he really suffers.

I am sorry we weren't able to help you with your sweet boy :'(


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## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

hey spaz,
he doesn't really have the twinkle but he will get sparks every now and then. i am afraid to put him down because just when i believe he is done for, he surprises me.

he is losing weight rapidly though and sleeping more. his spine is just below the skin and he is noticeably smaller, its very hard to watch this happen. 

i don't really think a visit to a vet is going to prevent anything, as he has a massive lump on the side of his head now.


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## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

hey spaz & others:

good news and bad news.

the bad news consists of a tumor that quickly sprang up on the left side of his jaw under his ear. it grew rapidly over a few weeks. a couple days ago it began to move his bottom jaw and displace it. 3 days later his bottom teeth were piercing into the bottom of his nose. i had to feed him soft food but he had lost probably half of his weight over the past 5-6 weeks and wasn't putting any back on even when i let him eat first (before the other 2).

on monday i had to put him down. i could not let him live in pain anymore. at the time i put him down his tail was completely covered in a shell of hard/dry skin and light in color. i never figured out what that was but the rapidly growing tumor eclipsed his tail problem.

thanks for all the support and advice. thanks lil spaz for keeping up with my thread.

rip weezy. i love you buddy.


the good news is that he is no longer suffering and he is exploring as much as he wants with no cage to keep him locked up.


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