# Rat stealing other rat's food



## Dibgoat

I have a pair of male rats, brothers, who I've had for a little over a month now. I feed them twice a day--two pellets each in the morning, one each at night. I used to leave the food in a bowl but they ended up getting so eager they'd snatch the pellets out of my hands while I was reaching for the bowl, so I've since started doling them out by hand.

Recently I've noticed the bigger of the two, Dysart, attempting to steal Prior's pellets. I waved it off at first, but Prior now seems paranoid about his food: he spends a lot of time running about the cage looking for a good hiding spot to eat, while Dysart is happily munching. Dysart also seems to eat faster, since he finishes and immediately starts chasing Prior until he gives up the goods. This problem only comes with the food pellets, since they take so long to eat--treats and the like I give out evenly, and there's rarely an issue.

The past few days I've been letting Prior find a spot on my desk to eat, and close off the cage so the two can eat in peace. Once he finishes his food, though, Dysart paces the cage and stares at him until the food is gone.

I'm not certain if letting him eat outside the cage is a good thing--I'd much rather they both eat in the cage, so if I have to leave in the morning I don't have to worry, but I'm concerned Prior won't get his share if I leave them to their own devices.

Is there anything I should do to make sure they both get enough to eat? Or is this normal rat behavior that I shouldn't worry about?


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## ratsrulesok

I had exactually the same problem with my girls Sebby and Ceil, I found three small food bowls dotted round the cage instead on one main one seemed to do the trick, once sebby learnt that Ceil couldn't eat all the food they seemed to have calmed, Sebby used to be a terror for running round to hide himself with food from Ceil, but nowwith the seperate bowls it seems to have done the trick, hope this helps.


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## Squitchley

I may be wrong, but it doesn't sound like they're getting enough to eat. What do you mean by 2 pellets each in the morning and night?


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## ratjes

Squitchley said:


> I may be wrong, but it doesn't sound like they're getting enough to eat. What do you mean by 2 pellets each in the morning and night?


Same here. No wonder they are stealing. They need access to food always. Unless they turn into barrels.


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## Dibgoat

Rat blocks* sorry. The bag I got said 2-3 blocks per day, and I used to work in a pet store where the rats got a few blocks every day (in addition to some seed-filled hamster mix, which someone told me wasn't actually good for rats).

How much should I feed them, then? I don't mean to be underfeeding them, I just thought that was about what I was supposed to give them =\


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## Dibgoat

I'm also looking to buy a big bag of food online. Found a forty pound bag of Harlan Tekland 18% Protein 4018 for twenty bucks, only to realize there's a variety of different Harlan Teklands? Anyone know what specific kind would be best? My boys are about 3 months now.

(Sorry if this is the wrong spot for it--I don't really know where to post about food stuff on these forums.)


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## Jaguar

pet food direct, the native earth stuff? that's a great food... lots of people gripe over the extra 4% protein (as opposed to the 2014 formula) but it's really not that huge of a deal, unless your rats are elderly. as long as you're giving them fresh fruits and veggies it's fine... and super cheap to boot.  

as others have said they really should be fed more to avoid that kind of food hoarding... i have one of the greedy types as well. 2-3 blocks isn't much, i find my adult males eat at least 5 a day each. i fill the bowl with two handfulls in the evening and there are some left in the morning, and by evening they are waiting for dinner at the door haha. never had a weight issue with them.


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## Dibgoat

Thanks! I filled their bowl and they both spent about two minutes running back and forth bringing blocks to their individual hidey-holes. Hopefully once they get used to having more food they'll stop bickering about it as much.

Also, would you recommend 2018 or 8604? I think I'm going to opt for a smaller bag--I only have two rats and forty pounds seems excessive, especially as I have to have it shipped--and I found a website that sells the different varieties in varying sizes. I'm not clear on the difference between the two kinds, though.


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## Jaguar

8604, which is the gestation/growth formula, has almost 24% protein. way too high unless you have, as the formula would suggest, a pregnant momma or wee babies.


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## ratjes

Dibgoat said:


> Thanks! I filled their bowl and they both spent about two minutes running back and forth bringing blocks to their individual hidey-holes. Hopefully once they get used to having more food they'll stop bickering about it as much.


mine do that too. I always check their secret places to see how much they need. They always act hungry, the little liars.


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## Dibgoat

So I've been giving them a full bowl of food every evening for the past couple of days, and they're still bickering--mostly when the initial divvying up starts--but they both seem to be getting enough to eat despite the initial squabbles.

Only thing is, their poop is ATROCIOUS now. I cleaned out their cage entirely the day before last and come evening you'd have thought I'd left it for weeks. Poop everywhere--which isn't new--but the SMELL. I swear it never smelled this badly before.

I've also noticed their poop is much wetter (and stinkier) than normal now. I gave them each a baby carrot and a grape the day I cleaned out their cage, but they haven't had any fresh veggies/fruits since, which always seemed to cause wetter poop. They've had a pure block diet for two days now and their cage is poop city and my room reeks. They have a large water bottle that I keep full, so if this is a case of diarrhea they're as hydrated as I can keep them.

Is there anything I can do to help them pass more solid, less putrid waste? I thought maybe it was just the sudden increase in food availability, but it seems to be persistent.


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## lilspaz68

Dibgoat said:


> So I've been giving them a full bowl of food every evening for the past couple of days, and they're still bickering--mostly when the initial divvying up starts--but they both seem to be getting enough to eat despite the initial squabbles.
> 
> Only thing is, their poop is ATROCIOUS now. I cleaned out their cage entirely the day before last and come evening you'd have thought I'd left it for weeks. Poop everywhere--which isn't new--but the SMELL. I swear it never smelled this badly before.
> 
> I've also noticed their poop is much wetter (and stinkier) than normal now. I gave them each a baby carrot and a grape the day I cleaned out their cage, but they haven't had any fresh veggies/fruits since, which always seemed to cause wetter poop. They've had a pure block diet for two days now and their cage is poop city and my room reeks. They have a large water bottle that I keep full, so if this is a case of diarrhea they're as hydrated as I can keep them.
> 
> Is there anything I can do to help them pass more solid, less putrid waste? I thought maybe it was just the sudden increase in food availability, but it seems to be persistent.


What bedding are you using for your boys? I would advise against grapes until their tummies have settled down. They might be gorging right now, since they weren't getting enough food before this, and are probably afraid it will go away again. Just let them work it out. Don't worry about scuffles, they are boys and a little ruder. Mine take lab blocks right from a subordinate's mouth LOLOL...

At that age I would stick with HT 2014 and it can be ordered online from a few places...depennding on where you are located...Canada, US or ?


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## Dibgoat

I'm using aspen bedding. The poop really isn't too much of a problem when they do manage to actually get it in the bedding, though--right now I keep waking up to find one shelf littered with poop, which they trample through and thus smear all over the rest of their upper floors. Yick.

So 2014 would be better than 2018? On the website I'm looking to buy from (ratshop.com) the description lists it as ideal for rats 8 months and older, when my guys are somewhere between 3-4 months.


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## Dibgoat

So it's been almost a week now that I've been leaving them a full bowl of food every night, and Dysart is STILL hoarding and stealing. I give them each a block and then fill their bowl, and Prior goes off to eat while Dysart brings the first block to his nest, then systematically moves all the rest over--and when he's done with that, he hunts down Prior and steals the one he's eating too! I tried to put the food in two separate spaces tonight, and it didn't deter him in the slightest: he just finished hoarding the one bowl and then moved onto the other.

Prior seems to be able to sneak his way into Dysart's nest to grab a block at a time to eat, but I still don't like how possessive Dysart is and I worry that Prior won't be able to get enough to eat. Is there anything I should be doing to even things out a little more, or should I just let them work it out?


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## Terpsichore

I have one female who is a hoarding maniac. I have had rats for over a year and she still makes it hard to figure out how much my girls actually eat. She even sometimes hoards poop from the litter box, ew! It totally defeats the purpose of the litter box lol.

His hoarding could just be in his nature. If you give my girl anything that is not super yummy, it goes straight into a house. You could try to give him something tastey that he wants to eat right away. Then, while he is eating, just sneak the bowl in. This might give your other little guy a better chance to get some more for himself, or it might start to reinforce that it is always there.

Also, all my rats seem to think that anything from my hand = treat. Even if I just give them a piece of normal food, they run away like they just won the treat lottery. So, maybe, if you stop giving him normal food from your hand, it might seem less appealing or less special to him.

These are some observations I have made, I hope they help you out with your mega hoarder.


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## ratjes

I am sure that they are smart enough to find a way to get the needed amount of food. Good luck trying to manage their behavior, it will be a 24/7 job.
Just make sure there is enough for both, no matter whose stash it is in.


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## Kinsey

I have a very high energy girl who stashes food, and a large, fat male who also stashes food. They will spend hours moving the food between piles. Then, I have a very old male who isn't a hoarder. He has perfected the art of grabbing a block from a pile when the other rat is not looking, and then turns his back to eat. They will grab it from his mouth if they can, but he side-shuffles so they cannot reach.

Something similar is probably happening, as long as Prior is not skinny, don't worry too much.


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