# Shoulder rat Videos?



## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

Ok so I am really into watching rats body language lately but there is a real lack of videos about shoulder rating outside of the house. Particularly I am interested in off the shoulder free ranging videos of a extended time or journey. Does anyone make videos of their trips out shoulder rating and would feel like sharing them here? ???;D

Of course with the don't try this at home your pets might get killed disclaimer...


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I have a couple of Fuzzy Rat, one swimming in the lake with the kids... but it was taken at sundown and she's hard to make out when she's in the water, I think you don't really see her until she climbs the ladder onto the raft and one where she's leading us back to the car which is better quality.

I honestly don't have a clue how to post them here and I don't have a video sharing account.

I suppose I could take some of Cloud once she loosens up a little again, but right now after a winter indoors she's not a big explorer, she pretty much just stays on us or around us or heads for the house door. Cloud has always been a very easy shoulder rat to manage, but not a very exciting one.


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

Oh, Rat Daddy! It's simple. You see the icon RIGHT next to the little tree [image uploader] there's a film reel icon.
Click on that, that's how you upload videos! 

I'd love to see your videos, I'm very interested!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I just checked but it wants a web address, I have the vids on my back up drive.


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

Rat Daddy said:


> I just checked but it wants a web address, I have the vids on my back up drive.


You can always upload them to YouTube.
When you upload them to Youtube, they will have a URL that you can copy and paste!

Do you have any videos/would you be able to take any videos of your rats free ranging your home?

That'd be awesome to see, too!


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

Anyone who's interested, I don't mind where they are just post the details here if its a file upload site or a account doesn't matter. 

Try this, you can upload videos without an account https://vid.me/ 

The more different rats the better! So I can see what's a natural and whats individual.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Try this link, I found a few more vids if anyone is interested, but lets see if this one works.

*​*https://vid.me/BzNQ


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

That's soooooooo cooooooooooooooool!!!!!!!


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

Post them all!!!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I had just remarked on a different forum, and I was told... actually flamed... that shoulder rats don't exist... That rats can't navigate outdoors by sight (notice I took the photo right after a rain storm) and that a rat outdoors would always get lost or killed...

So I shot that little video for my personal sanity and dedicated to those who don't believe.


You may or may not notice that Fuzzy Rat not only found our car, but she waited for me to catch up. She could find the house from over half a mile away only by watching the way we went while we carried her.

And just to be clear, Fuzzy Rat was very special. We often let her free range outdoors, like she was doing when the vid started and she was very good at taking care of herself... I wouldn't dream of doing that with a "normal" rat.


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

Rat Daddy said:


> I had just remarked on a different forum, and I was told... actually flamed... that shoulder rats don't exist... That rats can't navigate outdoors by sight (notice I took the photo right after a rain storm) and that a rat outdoors would always get lost or killed...
> 
> So I shot that little video for my personal sanity and dedicated to those who don't believe.


Don't worry about what people say most of it is based on myths, opinion or what I call emotional projection (seeing something which isn't true, related to how the person feels). The fact shes way out ahead in the open shows she is comfortable in the situation as that is often used in labs to assess rats anxiety levels. I did have a really interesting video that you would probably like to watch.. I will see if I an find it.

But yeah this is the kinda video I was hoping for and also more new or complex environments where the rat can avoid the owner if it chose to. I know that's risky and most people wouldn't take that risk. I just hope more people post! The more rats the better! ;D


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## tab (May 5, 2015)

Rat Daddy said:


> Try this link, I found a few more vids if anyone is interested, but lets see if this one works.
> 
> *​*https://vid.me/BzNQ


That was AMAZING!!!!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

*Fuzzy Rat swimming at the Lake*

I tried to get some video of Fuzzy Rat swimming from kid to kid, but it didn't come out as she had a black head against black water and the camera wasn't waterproof so I had to shoot from land...

I might add that she jumped into the lake herself and as you might notice this was just another day at the office for Fuzzy Rat, she's calm and relaxed and mostly trying to avoid getting drowned by the little kids she was swimming with.

Thatnkfully, there's no vid of "Look Daddy... Fuzzy Rat can swim underwater!"

And yes... The rest of my comment which I started with "I can't bear" was me about to say "to watch".

https://vid.me/3edL

Sorry about the quality, I couldn't see anything in the viewfinder so I shot this blind. But it might give you some idea of what a "normal" outing with Fuzzy Rat was like.

What I don't think anyone can see from the vid just how charismatic she was, she would attract mobs of kids and adults and she lived for the attention. She would actually sulk if people didn't want to meet her... which didn't happen often.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Amph,

I doubt there are too many vids of true shoulder rats out there... TSR's are very rare and ones like Fuzzy Rat are practically once in a lifetime rats... 

You are very correct about her ability to deal with stress. I suspect it had something to do with her excellent vision. She could identify someone she knew from over 100 feet away while some rats I've had cant tell one person from another at nearly that distance. She free ranged the park, the beach and even the woods just like an 'average' rat free ranges your bedroom. 

On the down side, her ability to handle stress made her an action junky; indoors in winter, she got bored easily and damaged stuff to get attention.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I almost forget to add my usual warning:

Fuzzy Rat was a highly skilled true shoulder rat with hundreds of hours of outdoor experience. PLEASE DON'T TRY THIS WITH YOUR OWN INDOOR RATS AT HOME! You will get them killed or lost.

I wrote a thread on how to train and test true shoulder rats at a safe site, if you think your rat has the potential to be a TSR start there and be very careful.... Fuzzy Rat died of old age and tumors safely at home... lots of rats the get taken outdoors aren't nearly so skilled or so lucky.


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

I'm trying to find this video about rats memory.. It was explaining that when rats enter a new area they explorer around, then they stop groom and replay it backwards in their head. This allows them to memorize the location of all the important landmarks. Which supports her being able to find her way back but its interesting how large of a scale that appears to work for. 

When I was in my teens my friends all got a rat each and we would meet up after school at the park with them or walk into town with them on our shoulders. The local pet shop would always give them free dog biscuits because it drew a lot of attention to the little store. My boy didn't want to travel far off shoulder though, maybe because he had ruby eyes or maybe its just a lazy male thing... My current rat doesn't like being put down so I don't force him but it would be so interesting to build up a collection of shoulder rat videos to see common traits that could help when choosing future shoulder rats. I get they are uncommon but I've read stories about trucking rats and a man that walks about with a rat sitting on a cat that's sitting on a dog.. so I live in hope LOL


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

The rat cowboy of Times Square comes to mind, he supposedly carries 3 at a time.

I suppose Fuzzy Rat was different when we met her... I really thought she was too plain and took her from my daughter and put her back in the feeder bin 3 times. Fuzzy Rat was only 3 weeks old and she kept crawling back to my daughter who insisted on adopting her.

Other than that, it's just dumb luck. You can tell a sweet rat and a nice rat, but you can't really identify an amazing one when you choose your rats.

We just adopted Misty and I'm training her... She was a dumbo about 3 weeks old and she was still squinting... She was blue and had black eyes so we thought we were safe, one week later tan guard hairs start to grow in and last night her black eyes bugged out and flashed red under the street lights... 

Our Amelia had black/ruby eyes and washed out of the shoulder rat program pretty quickly... I'm still not giving up on Misty. I suppose we'll find out if a black/ruby eyed rat can become a TSR one way or the other in the weeks to come... But to be very clear, she's already nothing like Fuzzy Rat was at her age. I sat down on the soccer field and she crawled all over me, but didn't go more than two feet from where I was sitting... Fuzzy Rat would have been all over the field exploring. By 5 weeks old we had already lost Fuzzy Rat twice for about an hour each time and she came back entirely on her own...

As to learning where something is, Fuzzy Rat always went to where the car was parked the day before first, then she would start a search pattern for where it is today. In the clip, you can see she stops and I tell her to keep going. The pause was where the car was the day before. But yes, then she promptly found the right car. Rats do seem to do some of the spacial mapping overnight when they sleep.


As to distances... Fuzzy Rat could easily map distances of over half a mile with several complex turns, but I suspect many if not most rats can... it's just like running a maze in a lab just on a grand scale. She could also maintain a fast jogging pace for that distance... What actually became more interesting was that when she got older she would invent short cuts and knock off corners bypassing the turns we took to get her somewhere and cutting diagonals. Unfortunately we couldn't follow her through people's back yards and she got old and sick before I could really study this phenomenon. It's more than just memorizing turns and places to turn, I suspect a rats brain can really map an area and they might have some primitive GPS type ability that they can learn to use.

Lastly rats actually seem to learn to see and map... When we first train a shoulder rat they don't seem to be able to distinguish one house from another or one person from another or navigate any long distances... both come with time and experience. It's like an ability they have that they don't know they have until they learn to use it.


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

Rat Daddy said:


> What I don't think anyone can see from the vid just how charismatic she was, she would attract mobs of kids and adults and she lived for the attention. She would actually sulk if people didn't want to meet her... which didn't happen often.


What an amazing animal. 



I'm so happy you got to share these videos! They're so incredibly cool to watch. ^_^


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## bloomington bob (Mar 25, 2014)

These are so great Rat Daddy!


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

Did you find anymore videos?


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

I am neither brave nor confident enough to shoulder rat, but I have great respect for those who do. It takes a special combination of rat and people. I love to see and hear the great stories from those special people.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

We use these low railings to train our shoulder rats to follow us after we leave the safe site... Of course they can jump off if they get spooked, but mostly if they passed safe site training they just have fun running on them.

https://vid.me/bYiW

You might realize that by this point we weren't actually training Fuzzy Rat, we were just having a little fun with her.

I'm not sure how many more vids I have, but these were the ones I could find and the ones that come to mind. 

People watching these shouldn't be fooled... Fuzzy Rat was great to work with, obeyed commands and literally turned on a show if anyone was watching. But... sometimes she would just get the crazy idea to take off and explore on her own... and you might have noticed, she was fast... She's only jogging in these vids, she could sprint much faster than what you see... and she was gone for about an hour each time. She also had a thing for bad boy wild rats...

There aren't any vids of us sitting around waiting for her to come back out of the woods or marsh while park regulars joked.... "Looks like you lost your rat *again*." But she always came back... she was as dependable as the IRS. Once she even jumped into the lake to get away from us... It was November and it was cold and she came back pretty quickly to get toweled off. Even Fuzzy Rat had a few really bad ideas.

But unless you can sit around patiently while your rat comes back to you in her own sweet time without losing your sanity... shoulder ratting with a rat like Fuzzy Rat definitely isn't for you.


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

Fuzzy rat reminds me of a past rat I had Ellie.. in how active she is and fearless. I do wonder if males or females are best for shoulder rating. I mean males will probs be better up on your shoulder but females may be better on thr ground because they just keep going and going.. However like you say they can get distracted by wild boys...

I would agree about eyesight being important but I also wonder if coat color is important when dealing with sunlight heat..? I saw a program about cats which talked about the ear structure and how it helps them pin point sounds.. would that effect dumbos vs top ears for shoulder rating..? who knows...

hmm I wish more people liked rats so I could get all the info I want xD


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Raindear,

No rat should ever be taken out without safe site training and testing... Now to say Fuzzy Rat blew through safe site training and testing in a matter a coupe hours and went to the store for treats on the way home wouldn't be an understatement... But we took her there several times just because she liked it there and to be absolutely sure she wouldn't spook before unleashing her on the real world.

Fuzzy Rat, absolutely NEVER lost he cool or panicked. She came close in a tire shop, but she held it together by the skin of her teeth. And comically enough one of the mechanics remarked that she did way better than the other rat someone else brought in.

In the years we've been shoulder ratting we've actually never met another shoulder rat out and about... And I'd honestly love to see how two TSR's would interact on neutral turf.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Amelia was a black high white, she was very hard to manage and not a TSR because she would panic easily... she pancaked in the summer sun long before Fuzzy Rat went down. White rats are also better at night... trust me it's a lot harder to keep tabs on a black rat in the dark... 

When Fuzzy Rat smelled a wild male rat she would start preening and jumping around.. then she would put her nose to the ground and take off like a stoned bloodhound, hot in pursuit of it's trail. As soon as she got that glassy eyed romantic look we'd pounce on her and drag her kicking and screaming back to the car... 

I'm sure she would have come back eventually, more than likely all dreamy eyed and smoking a tiny cigarette... and I'd have been Rat Granddaddy. 


There's a post to the shoulder rat training thread where someone left a male TSR outdoors unattended and he was killed by a wild male rat.. I suppose that can happen if you accidentally drop your male TSR into some wild male rats territory.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Cloud's a Dumbo and a TSR, but not nearly as competent/confident as Fuzzy Rat or Max were. I can't say if it has anything to do with being a dumbo though... Misty is a dumbo too and she has black/ruby eyes... so we'll see how it goes... Black/ruby should be OK in strong sunlight, but I don't know how well they can actually see. Amelia was fine indoors, and she could identify a tree from at least 30 feet away, but beyond that I can't say for sure... Like I said she panicked easily.


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

Amph said:


> Fuzzy rat reminds me of a past rat I had Ellie.. in how active she is and fearless. I do wonder if males or females are best for shoulder rating. I mean males will probs be better up on your shoulder but females may be better on thr ground because they just keep going and going.. However like you say they can get distracted by wild boys...
> 
> I would agree about eyesight being important but I also wonder if coat color is important when dealing with sunlight heat..? I saw a program about cats which talked about the ear structure and how it helps them pin point sounds.. would that effect dumbos vs top ears for shoulder rating..? who knows...
> 
> hmm I wish more people liked rats so I could get all the info I want xD


Yeah, that's what I feel with my male rats.
They're absolutely fine on my shoulder, but I feel like they're too lazy to adventure outside.

Bear will just crawl in my shirt if I let him adventure on my front lawn.
Not very interested.

This is kinda why I wanna female rat just to see the differences.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Actually most of the TSR's have been girls... with some notable exceptions like Wilder the wild born roof rat.

Comically although Fuzzy Rat was totally disabled and could barely drag herself around with her front paws she still managed to drag herself to some disgusting food some kid had dropped and fight off the ants for it...

All rats get more conservative as they get older and less competent... Half way through her second summer Fuzzy Rat would go to the car at dusk as I suppose her eyesight wasn't as good in the dark and by her third summer she pretty much stayed close by us even before she became a huge mass of tumors. At a certain age, Max stopped exploring and would go straight for the house or the car as soon as she hit the ground. Like old people when their abilities and faculties start to fade rats tend to become homebodies.


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

Rat Daddy said:


> Raindear,
> 
> No rat should ever be taken out without safe site training and testing... Now to say Fuzzy Rat blew through safe site training and testing in a matter a coupe hours and went to the store for treats on the way home wouldn't be an understatement... But we took her there several times just because she liked it there and to be absolutely sure she wouldn't spook before unleashing her on the real world.
> 
> ...



Rat Daddy, if I ever decided to try this, rest assured I would scrupulously adhere to your advice. I would read, reread and constantly keep all of your advice in mind. But, I sincerely doubt I would come to a place where I would feel that I have what it takes.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Raindear,

This is one of those feelings I just can't put into words... But when you have a rat like Fuzzy Rat you somehow just know you can trust her... she just pushes you to push the envelope. 

All of a sudden, you sort of wake up and take a snapshot because your rat is way up on top of a tall tree or swimming with children or leading you home... With most TSR's it takes hard work and training, with an animal like Fuzzy Rat, it's so natural you don't even realize your on the yellow brick road until you see your rat climbing the Emerald City walls.

Max and Cloud sometimes enjoyed being outdoors and if in a mood for it, they would play and explore a bit, follow at heal or even climb some shrubs or small pine trees... I could see them being generally happy indoors too. But I couldn't even imagine Fuzzy Rat as an indoor rat... I think she would have killed herself, or worse yet, killed us in our sleep.

You just know when you have that one of a kind or one in a million animal... and you sort of just go along with it... mostly in baby steps until all of a sudden you wake up and your rat's way up there and you are looking up wondering how you got there.

We took Fuzzy Rat outside in the front yard for just a few minutes to play, when she was only with us a week or rather 4 weeks old, and she bolted into the neighbor's hedges and off into the brown field beyond.... I promised my then 5 year old daughter that she would come back, but honestly I didn't have much hope... 45 minutes later she popped back out of the hedge wondering what all the fuss was about... We pretty much knew right then that we had a special rat, even before we found and took her to our safe site. Hey, you can trust her to come back... what more do you need to know? Well you need to know a whole lot more, but it was a pretty auspicious start.

And from that day forward, she would find some new way to outmaneuver us into one adventure after another... until I finally got used to saying "go ahead girl, I'll catch up"


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## MomToRats (Dec 25, 2014)

I would be scared my rats would take off and not come back


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

MomToRats,

There are some rats that will just take off... In my experience they are very rare but you will eventually find a rat that will actually make a calculated break for freedom. 

It's the rat that hangs out by the front door all day and knocks all of the flower pots off the window sill... it's the rat that won't get down off you at the safe site and then starts to explore further and further away from you when you are outdoors everywhere else. It's the rat that absolutely hates to be touched by anyone. Generally, and I hate to say this, but it's a rat that just gives you a bad vibe, like it doesn't want to be around you... At about two months old you can consider it GONE! And there isn't a darn thing you can do about it. If you really want to keep this animal, you have to keep it indoors or better yet in a cage... It will start out loving and sweet but it just emotionally detaches as it grows up.

I think that some rats are genetically disposed to be this way. They are the rats that board ships and wind up on different continents. They are the rats that switch packs and provide genetic diversity or maybe they're the rats that start their own packs... But they are the exact opposite of true shoulder rats. It's strange, when you lose one you feel traumatized and terribly sad, but somehow it's almost a relief and that makes you feel guilty on top of everything else. You're torn between worrying about your child and wishing it well... And don't try and recall it, once it's old enough and it hits the bushes or the reeds... it's never coming back.

These rare rats aside, most rats do love you and they want to go home with you and in a perfect world they would all become true shoulder rats. The problem is that normal rats will panic, then they will run into traffic or someplace you can't recover them from and they will hunker down and not come out for a very long time... They don't understand that you can't get down the sewer or up the tree or find them in the swamp and they stay planted until you have to leave of something eats them. These are good rats, they are very fine indoor rats and they can have fun at a quiet safe site where nothing is going to spook them. Some can even be carried some places... Amelia liked walking to my daughter's school to pick her up, but she would pee all over me when I walked into a well lit store... A nice walk on a quiet street was fine, but a store full of people was too much for her. If I put her down and took two steps away she ran for the first tree or shrub where she would hunker down and not come out. But she would wait there to be rescued and as soon she calmed down and I got close enough she would come back up on hand. She wasn't trying to run away... she wanted to come home with us... she just couldn't handle the stress. And these are the rats I worry about most.

Rats like Fuzzy Rat don't panic, they are smart and quickly learn to survive dangers and explore and they become competent fast, they make your life easy. Rats that run away because they don't like you... well, you decide for yourself if they are much of a loss... Good rats that can't handle the stress of being outdoors or traveling that would be happiest indoors need to be protected and NOT taken outside and this is most likely the vast majority of rats.

At the safe site you train and test... When you get a superstar like Fuzzy Rat, count yourself blessed, when you get a good competent rat like Max was, you count yourself lucky when you get a rat that doesn't panic and doesn't explore away like Cloud... you did pretty well, but you have to manager her closely and set safe limits... Then when you get a rat like Amelia, you pretty much keep her indoors most of the time.

I might note that when you work with TSR's you also improve your craft and you learn to handle problems, you are a very important partner to your TSR. Any one could handle Fuzzy Rat, A friend once borrowed Max and went shopping with her and I didn't even know until they were back. Cloud only responds to me, but a good rat handler could work with her... Amelia was a nightmare outdoors... like handling gunpowder with a lit cigarette in the other hand. She was on the edge of panic and bolting from the moment you stepped out the door until you were safely home again... keeping her calm and under control took 100% concentration and effort and involved knowing which way she would run and getting there before she did. Amelia actually did several trips outdoors, never to the beach, never to the woods, she never climbed trees and even going only to very safe places she often tested our skills to the limit. She died of tumors and age and congestive heart failure climbing up onto my shoulder, and with relatively few outings under her belt that was a real accomplishment on our part. If we didn't have thousand of hours of experience with our other rats, her story would have been a lot shorter.

Always find a safe site, then train and test and train and test until you and your rat are ready to go anywhere else.

BTW this is what our final TSR test looks like:


This is Max graduating her training... And yes those are real fireworks, and yes that's in a crowded park at night and yes, she is really stressed just about to her limit... but she didn't panic and she didn't bolt...








And here she is an hour later meeting and greeting strangers in the crowd, being introduced for the first time as our new TSR.








Fuzzy Rat on the other hand loved fireworks she would gaze at them and I would watch the light reflect in her eyes, she would flinch when the areal bombs went off but otherwise the rockets mesmerized her. Her last public appearance was at her thrid and last 4th of July fireworks celebration, her eyes were dull and didn't reflect the fireworks anymore, and I could tell it was over... She spent about four hours after that doing her final meet and greet making new friends and saying goodbye to all of her other human friends. It was really sad for me, I think I teared up when the little kids who played with her at the park started saying good by and some started crying and she then couldn't lead us back to the car that night for the first time ever, but I was still so very proud of her... 11 days later she passed into loving memory...

Cloud survived her fireworks test by diving down my T-shirt and occasionally peaking out for a low but passing score. This is a very hard test... as long as your rat doesn't panic it passes because it's never going to get scarier than this.

Amelia never made it to the final exam... it would have been cruel and crazy to subject her to this kind of an experience... Like I said, this is our final test only for rats that have passed all of the others with high scores.

Great rats make it easy, good rats make it look easy and anything less than that shouldn't be out and about with you.

For the most part, people following this thread should enjoy the pics and the vids and keep their rats indoors or take them to a really good safe site... And if you're still thinking about doing something stupid, take a look at the rats we've trained and keep in mind I have a couple thousand hours of experience working with TSR's and I'm the one warning you not to be reckless... I'm no prude, we're out there almost every warm day with our rats and if I warn you that one mistake will get your rats lost of killed... and if you don't believe anything else I write... you can for sure believe this piece of advise. 

Shoulder ratters have an expression, we call it "having a bad day" we use it because we can't form more appropriate thoughts and phrases when things go that terribly wrong. And you will never ever forget a bad day when you shoulder rat. And you usually know it's your own darn fault... and you will never forgive yourself.


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

Animals have a short period of about 8 weeks when they are born to get used to their environment and be exposed to all the noises and sounds. I wonder if because you have your rats at 3 weeks old, if it helps you find true shoulder rat. You expose them to way more stimulus than say a petshop rat would have been exposed to. That may explain the rarity of successful shoulder rats in the general pet rat population.. I mean, we sit here in awe at shoulder rats but I guess its all based on what they would do naturally in the wild.???

If anyone else has videos please feel free to add them. They don't have to be the best true shoulder rat in the world or amazing quality. The name True Shoulder Rat is quite frustrating because when I search for it I just get rats sitting on peoples shoulders. xD If only we could rewrite history


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Amph,

Yes starting a TSR out young helps a lot, but as I'm teaching Misty right now I can say there's more to the story. So far Misty will roam about 1 foot from me outdoors at about 6 weeks old. By 5 weeks old Fuzzy Rat had already been gone twice for 45 minutes at a time and came back on her own. Different rats do seem to start out differently.

And it's going to be very hard to find TSR's on other sites. Many sites don't acknowledge their existence and don't allow discussions of them because they would tempt other rat owners to take their rats outdoors. Long ago I mentioned Fuzzy Rat on another site... I got 3 pages of flames telling me in no uncertain terms that Fuzzy Rat was a junk rat, that I was morally reprehensible for adopting a rat from a feeder bin, that I was inhumane to only have one rat at that time that Fuzzy Rat couldn't and didn't exist and the thread was locked before I could even reply or post a pic. I got a PM from another shoulder rat owner afterwards explaining I had brought up the unspoken taboo subject...

I may or may not be morally reprehensible, but I've never met a junk rat from anywhere. Obviously, Fuzzy Rat existed as did Max and does Cloud... and so I found Rat Forum where I could be with other people with TSR's which is also why I only introduced immersion here. As the nice people at Rat Forum were kind enough to have us when other sites wouldn't, they also got the exclusive on immersion which was developed in large part through our work with Fuzzy Rat. 

I don't think I'm being unfair... but if you ban TSR's you shouldn't get the benefit of their life's work. So TSR's are actually pretty rare but for the most part TSR trainers and handlers on other sites are still in the closet. I never encourage other rat owners to take their rats into dangerous situations, but I think taking the leap of faith and allowing Fuzzy Rat, Max, Cloud and myself to have an online home here has worked out pretty well for everyone. If anyone was ever wondering what the link between Rat Forum, True Shoulder Rats and immersion was... that's it in a nut shell.

I don't know where the term "shoulder rat" actually came from. But I first heard it at a pet shop when I went there with Fuzzy Rat on my shoulder... An older woman remarked "Look Herb! The man has a shoulder rat!" In as much as I'd never heard a better term, at least for me, it stuck. TSR's go way beyond just riding on shoulder, but in general that's what people notice first.

I'm not going to pretend that Fuzzy Rat was the first true shoulder rat, and I'm partial, but there may have been better ones, but as far as I can tell we were among the first out of the closet and I'll always be grateful to Rat Forum for taking the leap of faith with us. 

Since Fuzzy Rat and the other shoulder rats, there have been black rat owners and wild brown rat owners and even wood rat owners that have freely posted here without discrimination, and no rats are ever regarded as 'junk rats' here. Rat Forum has become one of the most progressive rat sites in the world because they took a big chance when other web sites wouldn't. And that's why you could even start this thread. 

Maybe this summer, I'll take some footage of Cloud outdoors and maybe some training footage of Misty at the safe site, but yes, I'd love to see some footage of other shoulder rats at work too.


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## bloomington bob (Mar 25, 2014)

I'm really looking forward to seeing videos of Cloud and Misty


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

Rat Daddy said:


> Amph,
> 
> Yes starting a TSR out young helps a lot, but as I'm teaching Misty right now I can say there's more to the story. So far Misty will roam about 1 foot from me outdoors at about 6 weeks old. By 5 weeks old Fuzzy Rat had already been gone twice for 45 minutes at a time and came back on her own. Different rats do seem to start out differently.


Oh for sure they are each as different in personality as humans are imo but surly you can only improve your chances starting young. I do feel like the term shoulder rat is misleading but maybe that's a good thing given people are more likely to put their rats on their shoulder and go out rather than plonking them down and getting them lost/killed. However for people that have gone past that like yourself the term doesn't fit, its almost like a evolution from shoulder rating like off shoulder rating...

Even with my past boy who I would take to school with my friends rats I wouldn't consider a true shoulder rat because it was a static area. The difference in my eyes is not putting a rat down outside because that can be done in a controlled situation. Surly its the rat choosing to associate itself with you during a period of travel over a distance that makes its a true example?


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Amph,

I think your right on all counts... 'shoulder' rat is inadequate but off shoulder rat might not be any better as it could imply rats that won't stay on shoulder. And terms like trained rat can have any number of meanings. I doubly hate indoor/outdoor rat or travel rat because those terms inspire the imagination to go in any number of ways.

Oddly shoulder rat just seemed to fit from the perspective of the spectator. That's what they saw, a rat on my shoulder yes she could do so much more but when we walk by that's what most people see first. I suppose there had to be some distinction between a rat that can just ride on shoulder and those that can free range outdoors, so I reserved the term true shoulder rat to make the distinction as it wasn't otherwise copyrighted.

If folks have better ideas for a name, I suppose I'm always open to improvement.


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

I wasn't suggesting off shoulder rat as a name change just pointing out its kinda ironic in name to be called true shoulder rat when its the ability to be off of the shoulder. ;D I have no idea what would be a good term to replace it or even if its a big enough topic to warrant such action. I just get frustrated when I search shoulder rat there are many videos of people who have picked up their rat plonked in on their shoulder and made a video for their friends. If people are to share and seek information accurate to what they want to achieve, in such a niche area its made even harder by the name. 

I will give an example of reef aquariums. For years it was assumed as FACT that large reef aquariums were the only way to do it and over the years people alone would as you did, do their own thing with smaller reef aquariums and got abuse for doing it. They started to call them nano reef aquariums and suddenly it became more common because it was more publicly available. Then that progressed even further to sub 5 gallon reefs which were again laughed at and abused.. until the term pico reef was used commonly. The advice for a pico reef is quite different from a nano reef but without the different terms they would both be considered desktop reef and result in poor advice being given.

I feel there are equivalent stages for rats from getting your rat to sit still on your shoulder, then to going outside on your shoulder and then being off shoulder at times. You may see more stages than I can see because of your experience but that's not really my point. My point is when a new person says "oh I would love a true shoulder rat" many people who aren't doing what you have achieved may give them really poor advice about their rat which they stuck on their shoulder one day and went for a walk, simply because of the name used. I think the fact that every post you make about it, you feel a need to put a disclaimer about being a true shoulder rat highlights and what that is shows the point I am trying to make? Remember it wont always be you who is the one giving the advice and therefor able to clarify the difference which is more worrying to me than more people taking part in the activity.

I hope I'm being clear ???


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Your being perfectly clear. We had a 2.5 gal invert tank, (that's what we used to call it) back in the early 1980's It looks like it took 30 years for it to get a better name... I hope it doesn't take as long for shoulder rats... 

I suppose that it doesn't help when many shoulder rat trainers don't want to be found. Every year, I privately coach a very few new shoulder ratters that I honestly believe will be successful... somehow they manage to find me... I suppose good shoulder ratting advise, like anything else that's useful on the internet takes a bit of searching.


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

This is harder than I thought... Everything I consider is related to some more common subject that would swamp any search results with unrelated information... What is needed is a completely new name not related to any other subject but still describing something that is in a way very similar in basic structure to commonly done activities. Its like when I first decided to let my rat live free in my room I had no idea how to get advice because everyone's idea of free ranging is controlled playtime... Its so frustrating! 

When I search shoulder rat in google the forum sticky comes up top which is great but then its followed by lots of unrelated stuff about rats sitting on shoulders. This is good for bringing new people in who aren't actively searching for what you do. It can teach the method but I guess it really limits our ability to see other peoples true shoulder rats because they simply wont generate as much traffic as a pet site giving general advice about rats sitting on your shoulder. Not to mention people who wish to do the same as you may not even consider it shoulder ratting and never click the link to the forum.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I think I once asked about a heath problem on another rat site. I wrote that my rat had a problem leaving a trail of pee behind her for a couple of days... The reply came that she was scent marking... No that wasn't it I responded. It only happens when she gets in contact with water and or gets cold and it lasts about 3 days... Still no useful replies... So finally, because our rat was soaking the house with a trail of pee... I had to explain what happened actually in one of the vids I posted right here on this thread... Instead of any help... the thread was immediately locked down because the people that replied broke the site's courtesy policy... I never did get an answer to Fuzzy Rats urinary problem, but it went away after about 4 day and it recurred whenever she swam in the lake or got too cold outdoors in autumn or spring. And no, no other rats we've had ever had the same problem...

You have no idea how hard it was to find information on how to treat mushroom poisoning in rats. And I had some very good search words. And our emergency vet told me on the phone she couldn't help. It's milk thistle by the way... if anyone ever needs to know.

The main reason you can't find true shoulder rat information is that it's banned on most of the rat sites under any name. No, it's not in the official rules but when you break the taboo you will know it in no uncertain way. To some degree "shoulder rat" or "true shoulder rat" is intentionally innocuous and benign sounding to avoid both the folks that want to kill the discussion entirely and to avoid attracting newbies looking for a cheap thrill at the expense of their innocent rats.

Although it's a rather small fraternity there's actually quite a bit of off line conversation on the subject between those of us who shoulder rat... We're not trying to be aloof or pretentious, some of us have faced the slings and arrows and none of us want to get other people's innocent rats killed. 

Mostly we post a few pics here and there accompanied by very stern warnings so everybody can enjoy the fun vicariously and I wrote the thread for people like myself that had to learn things on my own the hard way, so they would have a better chance of success. We're a small subculture of the general rat owning population, we do things most people should never try, we work with truly wonderful animals and we learn things most people don't need to know... Where our experiences would benefit normal rat owners mostly we're happy to share.... but there's stuff you just don't need to know until your ready and committed to taking on the responsibility for yourself seriously. 

As you can see for yourself in the vids, shoulder ratting is great fun, but doing it well is a big responsibility. There's nothing safe about it... it's all managed risk and that's why there are no Fuzzy Rat, Max or Cloud vids on YouTube. I would never post them anywhere they were easy to find and might get separated from their warning labels.


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

It doesn't look like anyone else has any videos to post sadly.. I feel like I have learned a lot about fuzzy rats body language from your first video rat daddy, which I am pleased about at least. I can't say if I will ever true shoulder rat simply because my boy Freddy just doesn't seem like the type and you can't force it. It has reopened a debate in my mind about males vs females though which I will explore and who knows what the future may bring.... 

I guess it would be too much to ask for a separate shoulder ratting sub forum under a advanced section to keep it separate from general rat care and promote it a little.. It might be a little empty for a while though.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Again... "promote" is a problematic word... This is a dangerous activity for the right rats and certain responsible people.. I don't want to come off as aloof or a snob, but really this takes time to learn and to do right and then you need the right rat. And rats really do get lost or killed in the process and almost always because someone made an inexperienced mistake or got lazy.

When you have a rat that knows his or her basic commands and is properly bonded to you... as in runs to you when afraid, you can go to a safe site... and that's where you do your training and testing... because your safes site should be almost as safe as your living room, maybe safer... you shouldn't be able to screw up too much there... But in reality rats act very differently indoors than they do outdoors... A great indoor rat can become a nightmare outside and sometimes rats that are really awful indoors become great true shoulder rats.

You saw how happy and confident Fuzzy Rat was outdoors under extreme stress.. Indoors she was easily bored and downright destructive. She often disobeyed her commands and wouldn't usually do anything without a bribe... She was always a loving rat and sweet but she could be a terror when she was indoors too long. Imagine a rat that was used to running hundreds of yards at a time cooped up in a 9X12 room or worse yet a cage.

I know it sounds counter intuitive, but until you get to the safe site you know very little about how your rat will behave outdoors. As soon as you walk through the door everything changes... and every rat is different... 

For now and for the foreseeable future, most shoulder ratting conversations are going to be in private and out of the public eye, and I believe that's for good reason. Most people really should keep their rats indoors because most rats are happiest and safest there. I'm happy to help certain people learn the craft, And I'm not hiding from anyone, but I really don't want to 'promote' anything that can get animals killed or lost.

Once you get out there with a rat and have a few close calls under your belt, you'll better understand.


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

I understand what you are saying and I get the concept and how risky it is even when you think you have it down, its really up to the rat and the environment. I just think that there are plenty of subjects out there that are as risky but life goes on people talk about them. I mean this is why we have regulation to limit the dangers. I feel more rats would be at risk by hearing rumors or seeing pictures of rats outside and not having the solid info there for them before they go and do it. We have spoken a lot here and lots of important points have come up but if someone had just seen a photo of fuzzy rat at the beach on google, they might have got the wrong idea completely. I can't even imagine how many people have seen rats on leashes and then got into trouble because their rat could squeeze out of it.. but who was there to warn them.. just videos of people do it...


Maybe it's something we will just agree to disagree on and I can understand your own personal reluctance to be involved so I'm not going to push you into it. Interesting discussion at least.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Sadly I can't stop someone from tying a string to their rat and losing it into traffic, I wish I could. I can however help a few people to have a fair chance to be successful. I've had the pleasure and privilege to help some of the other shoulder rat trainers and handlers here get started and I had fun doing it. And so far they have had great success. I'm sure some folks read my thread on the subject and have trained their rats in private and so far we haven't heard any horror stories which is better than some people expected when I first posted it.

For everyone else... and most people get it... it's: "enjoy the photos and don't try this at home" Overall not many people are able to make the commitment and not many rats can be true shoulder rats so it's going to be a pretty small community and I can't see that changing... I've already put well over 100 hours into Misty and we haven't even gotten to the safe sit yet. 

If and when you have a rat you want to work with and you feel ready to make the commitment PM me and I'll help you get to and hopefully through the safe site at least... Once you are working with a shoulder rat of your own, you will understand things that make very little sense now. The first time you find yourself looking up at the tree tops straining to see your rat between the leaves and you've never actually recalled him or her from that high up your entire perspective changes. And when he or she comes back down, it changes again and when he or she doesn't, you are having a very bad day... and I won't even tell you what that does to your mind, and no you can't even imagine it. The very last thing you want to do is to help someone who is irresponsible lose or kill their rat.


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

I was reading a study about the effects of isolation (from rats not people) on the activity levels of rats and saw something interesting. The study basically found that isolated rats were much more active in a open field than group housed rats. They also found that the period of isolation between 25-45 days is the main cause of this. I found that interesting because you said you get your rats at 3weeks old and start training them right away. So I assume fuzzy rat wasn't around other rats for that 25-45 day period? Which would help to explain why she was so calm in open space if added on to a naturally out going personality that you said she had, when you got her from the feeder bin. It would also seem to add to the difficulty of training older rats to be true shoulder rats.


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## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

Wow. That first video I was gripping the arms of my chair waiting for some horror to happen. Totally amazing.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Hi DustyRat...

Pretty much the first time your rat bolts off for no good reason, it can be a bit distressing... then suddenly you realize she's leading you right back to your car... And your horror turns to amazement.

Fuzzy Rat lead us back to the car every night until her very last public appearance at her third big fireworks show, she was only 6 oz of rat and 20 oz of mammary tumors, she asked to be put down on the bridge that night, but she couldn't pull herself forwards any more and asked to be picked up and carried... That's when we knew it was finally over and never brought her out in public again.

I know, I often talk about her... and I tend to throw around the term amazing... but really most people can't imagine how amazing and bazaar her life really was...

Yesterday my daughter reminded me of the time I left the car window open and Fuzzy Rat climbed out of it and was car surfing on my side view mirror while I was driving down the NJ Turnpike. 

I was about to change lanes and I look at my side view mirror and I see rat butt and a tail flying in the breeze like a wind vane at 55 MPH... I pulled onto the shoulder and just let the car coast to a full stop then snatched her back inside... She did that to us twice and somehow didn't get killed... I suppose in the end she never really did anything she couldn't pull off, but I can't even add up all of the times she stopped my heart.

Yesterday was Misty's first visit to the safe site... Mostly she stayed right with us, and spent a fair bit of time under my clothes, we got her to follow us around a bit and she did a little close by exploring, so it wasn't all bad, but it was very much rat training... working with Fuzzy Rat was like playing with a well trained, if not a little bit crazy, dog.

Some joggers stopped to watch us coax Misty along in the short grass, and one asked us if Misty was a pet... When we said yes the girl commented "oh that's OK" but that watching a rat chasing people around looked "creepy". I had to laugh.


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