# Ear Biting and Pulling



## FallDeere (Sep 29, 2011)

Silver has always pulled on Peaches and Cream's ears, but lately it's worse and both of them have bleed because of it. She usually pulls on their ears at the cage door, like she's trying to get them out of the way of the door when it's open, but when she caused Peaches and Cream to bleed, the door was closed and I wasn't even there when she did it to Cream (I just saw her bloodied ear the next morning). Cream is so afraid of her ear being pulled that I can see her flinch away from Silver now. Peaches does it too, but she rarely lets anything phase her.

Silver has always had fights with the two of them, but I assumed the (mainly Cream) were just picking on her... but now I realize that Silver is a bit of a bully. She reminds my of my teacup poodle: great with humans, but not so much with her own kind.

Lately, I've tried to step in and stop the behavior.

So any suggestions? Should I not worry? I know the rule is usually, no blood no foul, but there _is _blood. Not much and not often (Peachy bled for the first time last night and Cream was the day before). But it's there. Their ears have been red and sore looking for quite a while now, though. Any tips on how I can discourage this and protect my babies from this bully?

I know it is a bit extreme, but I was thinking of possible options for a change to protect Peaches and Cream. I was considering getting the boys neutered so they could share a cage with the girls, but what if I just put Silver in with them? I could get her spayed or them neutered. I know she'd love to be able to boss the boys around, but what if she didn't get along with them either? I don't have the money to afford a spay or two neuters at the moment (too many other vet bills), but I am seriously considering it and would like input. I know Silver would benefit long term from being spayed, but I don't know if it's worth the risk...

Thanks for any suggestions

Edit to add: I forgot to mention, Silver even tried to pull my finger into the cage, like she does with the girls, once. She realized her mistake almost instantly and wasn't biting down hard or anything... but when she does it to the girls, they squeal like pigs.


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## FallDeere (Sep 29, 2011)

Sorry to double post, but I _really _need help... Silver grabbed my finger again, harder this time. I gave her a firm "no" along with a small bop on the head to get her to let me go, but she then proceeded to do it two more times.

Poor Cream is terrified of her now, and anything that gets close to her ear. 

Please... anyone? I'm worried for the health and safety of Peaches and Cream.


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## Raturday (May 26, 2012)

Some rats can definitely be bullies. In situations like that, it is definitely beneficial to put her in with the boys so she can meet her match(es). If you introduce them correctly and patiently, they will most likely get along. I'm sorry, I don't have any advice on how to keep her from biting your other rattie's ears!


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

Wow, I've never heard of this before! Usually problems are at the beginning, with introductions... Hmm.. Spaying her would be a fantastic idea. That way, if its something hormonal (doubt it, but you never know) it would help, and you can also put her in with the boys. Just make sure you introduce them slowly. Trust me, I understand how stressed out you are right now! Just spay her, intro her to the boys, and see how it goes. If not, she may need her own cage. But I have heard that during rats' teenage years they can go a bit nuts! For now........ Is there Any way you could put her in her own cage? Use a temporary travel cage and just fill it with her favorite stuff maybe. Just temporarily until you get her spayed...? I just don't want anyone to lose an ear or toe! I'm sorry your babies are misbehaving  


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## FallDeere (Sep 29, 2011)

Thanks for the input, guys. 

Unfortunately, I don't have the money for a spay at the moment and honestly, I'd rather avoid it if I can. I know it would benefit her health wise, but what if she never wakes up? Silver is my favorite of them all and I wouldn't be able to handle it if she died because of an unnecessary surgery.  Once I get the money, though (which might happen after Christmas), I will weight the options.

I have a large spare cage. It's a Luxury Rat Home that the boys used to live in. But with this stinkin' cold weather, I'd hate the separate her from Peaches and Cream. They cuddle when it's cold and keep each other warm. Silver has such fine thin fur, that I don't think she's last a night on her own. Plus, she' needs Peaches's fat to keep her warm as well (Peaches is a tad overweight haha).

If need be, I _could _put her in that cage and keep her in my room, which stays a few degrees warmer than the rat room (I think). That way, I could keep an eye on her and the temperature. Plus, since she would be alone, I could spend more one on one time with her.

I'm just so afraid I'll go in there and Peaches or Cream will be missing an ear... And it's only their ear she bites. They wrestle, but the only injuries or biting I have seen have been on their ears.

I guess it could be her teenage years kicking in, but she was about six months old when I got her on September 8th, I believe (Petsmart ) so there is no telling. If it matters, Peaches and Cream were about one and a half to three months old when I got them. They still had some baby fur, so I'm fairly confident about their ages. Aside from Peaches getting wider, though, neither of them have gotten bigger... Cream is a tiny thing which is one of the reasons I worry about Silver giving her a hard time.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

Hmm, if she ever bites u, spray her with a water bottle and say "no!"... That might discourage biting in general..... For the warmth, try filling up a hot water bottle.... That will give her something to cuddle up to....  


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## FallDeere (Sep 29, 2011)

It's not a vicious bite, though. Definitely not bad enough to want to spray bottle her. I just show her I'm the alpha of this mischeif with a bop on the head and a firm voice. She's not a biter... I've had biters... she's not one. I still have a scar from being bitten by a true biter. 

Silver is just... OCD. She feels the need to put things in their place, even me and the girls. That's why she pulls their ears. I don't know if she understands that it hurts them... Maybe she does and she just doesn't care.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

Hmmmm.... I would say, just try to discourage it as much as possible so it doesn't get worse.... Let us know what you decide/ what you do! 


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## FallDeere (Sep 29, 2011)

I don't know what to decide, lol. I will continue discouraging it best I can, but there's only so much I can do short of separating them. I really just want to know if I should be worried... Has anyone experienced anything of the sort before? Does anyone know why she does it? Should I worry about her ripping their ears off? Do I wait and see if it gets worse before taking any drastic action?


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## FallDeere (Sep 29, 2011)

Both of Peaches' ears are bloody today... Silver nearly refused to release her a second ago and was trying to drag Peaches around by her ear... Should I separate them? Am I worrying over nothing? I think Silver may be overly maternal. She keeps grooming Peaches like I would think a mama rat would, but roughly. Poor Peaches and Cream are terrified...


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## FallDeere (Sep 29, 2011)

Sorry, I hate double (or triple) posting, but I have an update... I can (barely) afford to spay her after I get some Christmas money. I don't know if my vet has spayed rats before, but I'll ask when I take the boys in for their URI.

Does anyone have experience with spayed females? Will it help this issue? Is this hormonal? How big of a risk is the surgery? Will the only benefit be that she can pull on the boys' ears instead of Peaches and Cream? Or will this stop this behavior?

I'm wondering if she might be better as a lone rat... but then again, it could just make her issues worse.

I'm getting a third cage set up just in case I have to separate her from Peaches and Cream. When I got Peaches out a minute ago, she was freaked about something, even shaking, and jumped right back into the cage. I'm wondering if it had something to do with Silver...

Also, is it possible that it's just Peaches and Cream? Would getting Silver a different friend help? But she does the same thing to me, so... maybe not.

I'm just so confused, torn, worried, and freaked out... I don't want to walk in there and find a severed ear! Please help! Anyone... please...


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## catland (Sep 3, 2012)

I don't mean to be rude, but I feel like you're creating excuses for silver and playing favorites. If she is causing your other rats pain she needs to be separated. Spaying her might not help the issue, but you should do it just incase.


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## FallDeere (Sep 29, 2011)

I'm not going to do a "_just in case_" surgery. I don't have the money to waste if it's not going to help and I won't risk her life.

I am NOT playing favorites. Yes, she _is _my favorite, but that doesn't mean I'm treating her _differently_. I'm preparing a cage for her now, but I'm afraid of how she'll be when she's alone. What if it makes her worse? Or maybe she'll be happier? I just don't know what to do and no one is offering any suggestions as to _WHY _she is doing this.

Plus, she doesn't do it 24/7. Just an hour ago, all three girls were cuddled up happily in a box, protecting each other from the chill.

I haven't taken her out yet because I didn't want to risk ruining any dynamic between them as a pack. I don't want any of them to be unhappy for any reason.

Once I get my other cage set up, though, I'm going to move Peaches and Cream into it and see if it affects any of their behavior.

She's doing it to _me _more now, though. Left a pretty deep dent in my finger but didn't draw blood. I couldn't get her to let go... she had my hand dragged halfway into the cage before releasing me. Oh, and by the way, it's purely related to the cage. She doesn't do it when freeranging... that I've seen, anyways.


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## catland (Sep 3, 2012)

paying for a surgery that has multiple health benefits isn't a waste of money and it is a relatively safe surgery. I don't have much experience with female rats, but it could be that she is trying to be motherly in which case spaying would help. Maybe you can do some exersies that let her know the cage is also your territory? I don't really know.


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## FallDeere (Sep 29, 2011)

Every time they go under, there is a chance they won't wake up. It doesn't matter if the surgery itself is low risk... surgery at all is always high risk, for rats, humans, and any creature. Just a month ago, someone on this forum took their male rat, a healthy young one, to be neutered and he didn't wake up.

Nothing has proven to me yet that this surgery is worth the risk. There's no guarantee that it will prevent other health issues. Plus, her main health issue right now is a URI. I can't imagine that helps her chances of making it through a surgery.

I've bobbed her on the head, tugged her ear while she was pulling me and the girls, grabbed her scruff, and anything else I could think of. I'll continue with that while I get my other cage set up and we'll see if it makes a difference...

My family and I believe this is because of her OCD. She wants things to be where she wants them to be. I think she might not have been socialized properly with her mother and siblings and doesn't realize her actions cause pain... I really don't think it's hormonal now, but it might be.

Plus, I think it's become habit. See ear, tug until in proper place. She used to do it when I first got Peaches and Cream, I believe to get them out of the way when she wanted to be at the cage door. I don't know why it's gotten so bad just within the past week.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

I think you should separate her and then find a solution, so that no one looses an ear, and that she doesn't start drawing blood. You need to find a way to communicate with her that her actions are wrong in a consistent way, or she will only get worse ( which is why i said spray her with water - which doesn't hurt at all, it Just irritates them) . Separate her, save up, spay her when you have the cash, and put her with the boys.

Your other rats are shaking and blood is being drawn. And her rough grooming behavior is called " force grooming" , its a rough way to communicate dominance. She sounds likes she bullying the others, and might seriously injure the others or you. You should take action. 


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## FallDeere (Sep 29, 2011)

And right now they're perfectly fine again... She isn't consistently hurting them. And I know about force grooming... and this isn't quite as forceful as I've seen. Gus Gus and Bartok do it a lot and they pin each other down. Silver isn't pinning them down. Plus, she isn't being vicious or dominating. I think she is the Alpha, but nothing she's doing is mean spirited. She just doesn't understand it hurts them, I think. I don't know why Peaches was freaked out. I didn't see Silver do anything else to her, but I wasn't in the room for a while. Everyone is fine at the moment, cuddled up together.

I am going to separate them, I just have the small issue of lack of space. With the two cages I have, my rat room is full up, so I can't really make more room without invading on my mom's part of he room. At best, I could put a cage in my bedroom, but I only sleep in there and the rest of the day is spent in the rat room, so I'd have to bring her into the rat room during the day... and have no place for her.

Since she's doing it to me, it makes it easier to discourage it so I don't have to put the girls in harms way to correct the behavior. Once she's moved, I'll see if it continues... I just have to track down a spot for the cage... unless I keep them in my tiny spare cage, but it's pretty small... and they hate that cage.

EDIT: I'm still not willing to risk a spay until I hear people give more information about how it may affect her. I googled it and found promising stats about tumors and such, but that's not enough to convince me to risk my girl's life. There's a million things that can ail rats and spays don't promise no tumors, just lessons the risk of a certain type. Unless I see an account of spaying curing her type of behavior, I'm not willing to risk her life by putting her through an unnecessary surgery. I haven't read anything about spaying helping with behavioral issues, but if anyone has websites with information about it, please let me know. I'm not doing anything without being educated fully on the subject.


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## Ratking04 (Jun 3, 2021)

I feel like your playing favorites with your rats and if one rat is hurting the other you need to spay her, my rats have the same problem currently and I’m going the stay my bully rat. If you would like me to tel you how my experience goes I can but you really can’t let her be like that


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## Enne (Dec 12, 2020)

Ratking04 said:


> I feel like your playing favorites with your rats and if one rat is hurting the other you need to spay her, my rats have the same problem currently and I’m going the stay my bully rat. If you would like me to tel you how my experience goes I can but you really can’t let her be like that


The last post in this thread was made 9 years ago.


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