# Well, OK, please don't hate me!!!



## 2boysloose (Jun 27, 2008)

I got my girls today, *crosses fingers for congrats*, and just so you know, as they get bigger they will be getting a MUCH bigger cage.  A cage 3 times the size! I told my mom and dad that all I want for Christmas this year is money for a godzilla cage. :wink: 
There names are Lola and Stitch. They are about 8 weeks old, and are adorable!!! Lola is a white albino, and Stitch is hooded. 
They will only be in their current cage until Christmas. Any body have any really good cage suggestions for two adult girls? The price doesn't really matter, (as long as it is under $300). 
Anyways, I am sorry for what I was saying before. I don't expect anyone to really forgive me, but I still wanted to apologize. You were all just trying to help, and I shouldn't have been so defensive. :? 

Anyways, anyone for pics? I'll post them when I can!


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

If it were me and in your situation I'd get a FN 142 which will be about $200 and get your aggressive boy neutered with the other $100. Put the girls on the bottom of the cage and introduce the boys to be together on the top of the cage! Lone rats are unhappy rats and the 142 can house all of your rats in the same space while being super easy to clean and such. 

You see it's all about money management and you REALLY need to find a solution not just for your cage issue, but for vet issues and the fact that you currently have 2 LONE boys!! Rats are more social than humans! Imagine if you were left alone in a small cage and only let out for a little bit every evening and the person who was with you spoke a different language! That is how your rats feel. They don't speak your language, they don't understand you. While they seem happy and content I can 100% guarantee that they are NOT!


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## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

You need to STOP APOLOGIZING. One time is fine, but now it's just getting annoying.

For 2 girls, I'd get a Martin's 360. That's what I'm using for my 3.

I'm disappointed that you got them. Oh well.


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## 2boysloose (Jun 27, 2008)

I know that rats are sociable...Thanks for the cage idea, I'll defenitly look into it. I hate the fact that my males live alone, and yeah, if I have enough money after the cage, I'll try my best to have Darser nuetured. 

KayRatz, I am fixing the problem. Why are you so dissapointed? :?


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## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

If you could get a large cage [FN 142] You could try neutering both boys and house them with your girls.


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

If you hate the fact that your males live alone why didn't you get them friends or spend your $100 getting Darser neutered instead of getting a too small cage that will eventually hit the trash can and 2 girls. Shouldn't you take care of the ones you have and meet their basic needs first?


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## 2boysloose (Jun 27, 2008)

Oh, ok, thanks for the idea. 
I don't mean to be apolgetic all the time....That's just the way I am. I apologize beofre the other person gets a chance to (not implying you guys).


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## 2boysloose (Jun 27, 2008)

Alright, thanks for the whole "I'm so dissapointed in you thing". It's encouraging. lol.

I got these two girls. I am trying to fix the cage problem the best I can. I am going to try and get Cadvan and Darser the best I can. Vet bills arent an issue either.


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## jmk3482 (Aug 7, 2008)

I got this Rat Manor from Petco and the rat calculator says it will hold three rats. I am getting two girls soon and they will be housed in this cage.


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## 2boysloose (Jun 27, 2008)

You're right, it is a nice cage. I think the girls will have plenty of space until Christmas time. 
I know they grow fast, but not that fast!. haha.


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

Actually by christmas your rat females will likely be fully grown and be WAY cramped in that cage! Hence why we all told you BAD IDEA!


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## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

My girl rats were adopted in April and reached full size within a few [2-3] months. Lol.


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## zoe9 (Oct 3, 2007)

Oh this makes me sad.

2boysloose I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt and I really wanted to believe you were a good pet owner who wanted what was best for her pets but I can't believe that anymore.

Improving the situation for your current rats should have been your top priority. As Steph said you could have used that $100 to neuter Darser and then tried again with the introductions. Or you could have gotten 2 baby boys to introduce to Cadvan and Darser. If that worked out it could have resulted in Cadvan having cagemates and Darser being able to interact with them on neutral territory which would have been great.

Instead you got two girls. Why? It seems you were only thinking of yourself and what you wanted when you made this decision and by doing it you have pretty much condemned Cadvan and Darser to sad solitary lives and that to me is just so sad. It's as though you've given up on them and moved on to new and improved rats. Even sadder is that you now have to split your time between them and the girls which means they'll be even more alone.

I see people have suggested you neuter one or both boys and introduce them to each other and/or the girls. I hope you will seriously consider doing this and not just assure us you'll “fix” the problem but not actually do a thing about it.

I'm not going to congratulate you - that'd be hypocritical. And I realise this probably sounds heavy handed but to be honest I don't care. I've read enough posts from you 2boysloose to know you are a smart girl so I really don't understand why you've done this.


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## ScootersPet (Sep 4, 2007)

Well said Zoe!!! I agree with EVERYTHING you have said....those poor, poor boys...and now those poor poor girls.... 

Some poeple....blech


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

ScootersPet said:


> Well said Zoe!!! I agree with EVERYTHING you have said....those poor, poor boys...and now those poor poor girls....
> 
> Some poeple....blech


That's really rude - she can read everything you write about her. How would you like it if I started bashing you on one of your own posts? Chill out.


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## SamAnthrax (Jan 5, 2008)

I have this cage

http://www.sugar-glider-store.com/brisbane-cage.html

and am in love with it. same bars as ferretnation except smaller bar spacing. 

one downside is u have to make ur own levels.


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## ScootersPet (Sep 4, 2007)

If I was doing something wrong, or making a bad decision, than it would be justified and i would not complain a bit. I would do everything i could to make the situation better.


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## 2boysloose (Jun 27, 2008)

I am trying....If anyone cares, the girls seem to be doing splendedly.


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

ScootersPet said:


> If I was doing something wrong, or making a bad decision, than it would be justified and i would not complain a bit. I would do everything i could to make the situation better.


That's not an excuse for being rude. I can hardly think of anything to say in response without being rude myself...Just because someone makes mistakes or bad decisions does not give you the right to verbally assault them. I doubt anyone on here has given all of their rats (or other pets) perfect care; she's 13 for crying out loud! She's still a kid!

If you want to get something done about this situation, maybe write up a letter/e-mail or something she can show her parents explaining your views on her situation. Not that it's really any of your business, as long as she's not abusing her rats (and trust me, I'm sure there are thousands of rats receiving worse care) or breaking any animal cruelty laws.


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## ScootersPet (Sep 4, 2007)

I verbally assulted no one, I simply stated my opinion about the situation. I understand that she is "still a kid" but then why would she knowingly get more rats when the first two are living lonely lives and she is doing nothing about it? Kids have some sense of what is right, and i know that she knows keeping lone rats because you wanted to spend your money on other rats is not the right thing to do, i am sorry but i am very opinionated on these kinds of topics and im not going to shut up because someone doesnt like it. If i get that out of hand, one of the mods can kindly let me know and then i will ignore further posts by this person.
She made it our business when she posted it on this public forum asking for advice.

And im sure no one hates you personally, you might be a great person, but your decisions are not so great.


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## SamAnthrax (Jan 5, 2008)

UGH CAN WE JUST STOP THIS!


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## 2boysloose (Jun 27, 2008)

I didn't keep myself from spending money on my boys just so I could get two more...You must have misunderstood. 
I am going to do re-indtroductions, so that they don't live their "lonley lives". 
I do have a sense of what is right and what is wrong, actually a better sense than most my age (or at least at my junior high). You may not have been "verbally assulting" me, but you were extremley harsh in "stating your oppinion"....Not to sound mean.


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## 2boysloose (Jun 27, 2008)

I think we should to SamAnthrax....I just don't wanna be definded as a "horrible owner".


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## SamAnthrax (Jan 5, 2008)

All I have to say, is. 2boysloose is not a horrible owner. Trust me. I see horrible pet owners. I work at petsmart for gods sake. I see the worst people. 

She is now aware that she should get a bigger cage. and thats the end of it.


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## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

If you were going to get a bigger cage, and re-intro your boys... why didn't you tell us after we FIRST told you to do these things?


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## SamAnthrax (Jan 5, 2008)

ugh stop.


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## SamAnthrax (Jan 5, 2008)

And I would love to see a pic of the new girls.


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## phaidraft (Apr 9, 2008)

I'd like to see a picture too. They sound adorable.


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

I don't think you all realise how old her boys are. They are too old to go through a neuter in my opinion. I may be wrong though, it might be safe. 

Darser would be at least 21/22 months old? And Cadvan at least 17/18 months old?

This is one of her posts from June 2008:



> I have two ratties named Cadvan and Darser, and I love them both to death.
> It took me a while to convince my dad to allow me to care for a rat, but I finally did got one about a year and a half ago. Then about 4 months after getting Cadvan, I knew he needed a friend, and so went and got another little male, which is Darser.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Guys, this is the only warning I will give this thread.

We ALL know of the situation surrounding the girls, and here there and everywhere right now what's need to be said has been said. As it is, 2boyloose has decided to get these girls, so the least we can do is attempt to be relatively polite regarding the situation.

Remember, gentle forms of education are listened to more than just shoving information down someones throat.


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## junior_j (Jan 24, 2008)

2boysloose , girls are lovely little fuzzbutts , even though mine just destroyed a home made tube i spent ages on :roll: i still love them lol..

As for the situation with your aggressive boy, out keith is like this , wont tolerate other rats , and has tried to kill other boys on sevral occasions , but we got him at 18 months , the pdsa were given him and told to put him to sleep , but luckily enough my mums friend works there , new we loved rats and got Kieth , we tried every tip under the sun to get him socialized (he wouldnt) vet didnt reccomend neutring from 16 months (2 vets said this) and we soon realized Keith would much prefer roaming around the front room chilling out with us , plus he is almost 2 and a old man , i dont know what my point is but if your boy is majorly aggressive towards other rats and also to old to be neutured , you should just make sure he has tons of toys and even more TONS of free range time ,, he wont be AS happy as other rats in some ways but more happy then others , does this make sense?

Also ok so what you got the girls , we said u shouldnt , but u did , okay so that peeved some people , but i trust ur a decent owner , and i think maybe you should try to get the bigger cage sooner then christmas , i was in a similar situation to u as a new rat owner , started with a medium bird cage and was supposed to wait a few months until i got a bigger cage , i kept my eyes on freecycle/craigslist/carboots , 2 weeks later a perfect cage fit to hold 5 rats , but i only had 3, and now they are in the Jenny..

I am not saying ur decision was great ,. but hey u done it , the thing to concentrate on is making ur rats happy , and fullfilling there needs

Also i would love to see pics
Jess x


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

Stace87 said:


> I don't think you all realise how old her boys are. They are too old to go through a neuter in my opinion. I may be wrong though, it might be safe.
> 
> Darser would be at least 21/22 months old? And Cadvan at least 17/18 months old?


I'll have to let Gracie and Emma know that. Gracie's last tumor removal at 39 months went smashingly. Emma's spay and lump removal at 24 months went great, and she's scheduled for another lumpectomy tomorrow at 32 months.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

So now I can just avoid all these threads of "congratulate and don't hate me"?

I will only answer if she is asking a legitimate question.


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## junior_j (Jan 24, 2008)

Lilspaz many may agree this is the best thing to do , 

2Boysloose , one more bit of advice pal , dont keep apolizing , even though ur trying to do right(which i agree is good) it can and does grate on peoples nerves i think.. 

Jess x


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## chevalrose (Aug 13, 2008)

I agree BlueSkyy, I've read all these threads and I think some people are being really rude...be upset thats fine, make your point, but don't go bashing people like that. Of corse she's going to keep apologizing if she's being attacked that way. 

That being said, I do agree that you should have gotten the 2 boys and/or fixed your current situation first. I understand that asking questions on the forum is advice and you don't HAVE to take it, but it seems like you are completley ignoring everything people have said because you don't like what they said. 

Get the bigger cage when you can, at least take them out for free range as much as you can (obviously not mixing the boys and girls) until you can get that cage. Maybe you can convice your parents to neuter both boys and they can all be together at free range time at least. Or maybe both girls spayed (major health benefits). 

Please start thinking about your pets health and sanity first. They can't help themselves...it's just you dictating their lives. Maybe your parents can give your rats an early X-mas present. Explain to them about their growth and space needs, etc and they might agree? 

Martin's cages are pretty good. I have an R-965 that I just got, only $136 (shipping included). Holds 5 rats. Theres also the R-690 that holds 3, which is just a smaller version of R-695. My boys like both . You could get one of each for your boys and your girls and they'll have plenty of room. Make sure you get the powder coated, the galvanized gets rusty and holds odor. 

Good Luck.

PS - I would love to see pictures!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

www.martinscages.com

If you are planning on integrating one of the boys after neutering then you would need a minimum of the R-680. The R-690 is narrow and hard to fit hammocks into, etc. The R-695 is a good cage now that they automatically use the bigger doors.

Big door(s), powdercoated and a fliptop are very handy


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## junior_j (Jan 24, 2008)

Hm i like the look of that Lilspaz!

I need a new sick cage really, we have a small tank , but if poor Keith get sicks i dont want him in a tank , because of the phnumonia issues , and him having chesty problems anyway, we have a bird cage in the loft which could be cleaned and the bars are close together , so would hold a ill rat for a couple day with good flooring space and ventalation

Actually , thats a good point , have you got a spare tank or cage as a sick area for any of your rats 2boysloose?
Jess x


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## Ms_Ratty (Jul 14, 2008)

I agree with BlueSkyy. Some people have been rude to 2boysloose. From what I've read, she's 13 and by coming onto this forum it shows she wants to learn how to care for her rats. Admittedly, getting more rats wasn't a great idea, but as I said before, she's 13, and she'll learn from her mistakes. Also the fact that she apologised was something, as I've seen no one else apologise for what they have said to her in the past (from previous posts). I haven't been on this forum for long but I've noticed that the people who have, the ones who have lots of rat experience, show some impatience and intolerance with the newbies. I realise that you say the same things over and over to new people, but realise that quite often, these people are hearing these things for the FIRST time. I think constructive criticism is more effective than insults (which I've seen a few of!)


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## junior_j (Jan 24, 2008)

I dont mean to be rude , but maybe close this thread, its easier for 2boysloose to read the construction negative./postive critism and then if she feels she wants to she can post the pictures of her girls , and also feel welcome to ask us more experianced rat owners any needed question , or like us she can share the funny little things are fuzzbutts do.!
Jess x


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i agree junior. this thread is now just going around in circles. between being rude to 2boys and telling the forum to stop and lumping us all together to be the bad guys and so being rude to us, we're going downhill fast. there's nothing more to be said here that hasn't already more then thoroughly gone over. 

2boys-if you want to still look at cages, google them and use the cage calculator at its 2 cubic feet setting. remember to check the used items sites as well for the best deals.


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