# Still having problems



## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Ok , ive had my pet female dumbo rat for over 7 months now and she doesnt trust me ATALL.I can pick her up and shell sit on my shoulder but only because she knows its too high for her to jump , not out of choice.Ive tried everything , putting an old tee shirt in her cage , reinforcing good behaviour , hand feeding her ,carrying her around the house under my hoody, i handle her every single day for at least an hour or two.I let her roam my room and do what she wants but when ever i try to pick her up she looks absolutley terrified and shoots under the bed where i cant find her.She has never came near me of her own accord once.Its really starting to annoy me , i just want a sociable rat that repays my hard work and affection with some kind of interest , like so many ive read about on this site.If this goes on much longer im seriously considering getting rid of her.Its just no fun atall.If i wanted a pet that i can literally only watch i would have bought a goldfish.Any miracle advice advice is obviously welcome , but ive seriously tried everything.


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## crapola (Feb 12, 2007)

does she have a friend? if she is a lone rat, that might be part of the problem. she would be so lonely when you arent with her, and needs a friend to help her to socialise as they are very social animals.


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## Mana (Apr 22, 2007)

She needs another rat, another female or a neutered male. Lone rats, especially ones alone for so long, become neurotic and depressed. People sometimes think that a single rat will bond better to people and that more rats will just bond with each other, but that's not true. Even if she just has a shy personality, she will most likely open up to you more and become friendlier and more comfortable with a friend. I feel pretty confident in saying that if she continues to live alone, she will never change and become the pet you want her to be no matter what you do.

Rats NEED other rats. It's not just recommended to keep them at least in pairs, it's necessary.


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

At the moment she doesnt have a friend , but seeing as im working from home she spends minimal time alone anyway.I am reluctant now to get another rat as re-homing 2 rats is going to be more difficult if i end up with another problem rat like her , i think the best thing i can do is re-home her , i guess rats just arent for me.But thanks for the advice


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

My friend kept a lone female before with no problems atall , she would come to me , play on me and showed no signs of nueroces or depression.Just a happy playful loving rat.For one reason or another , and not through lack of attention or affection shes just not playing ball , i wonder if rats can be born with conditions such as downs syndrome or other mental problems as this is what she seems like.Totally dispondant to any kind of love or affection , just not interested.


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## Mana (Apr 22, 2007)

It doesn't matter how much time she spends with you. You are not a rat.

I don't care if your friend had a lone rat who was friendly. My sister had one like that. That rat now lives with other rats, and she is so much happier, and still just as friendly and sweet.

Again, rats NEED other rats. Your rat does not have a mental condition. She is lonely. Simple as that.


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Ok , im going to give it one last try and see if a couple friends make a difference.Ive been waiting ages for my petshop to get some females dumbos in but it looks like ill have to get regulars if its going to mean shes happier and more responsive with friends of her own kind around.I take it there are no problems keeping regulars and dumbos together ? she wont get bullied about her ears or anything? 8O


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

There is no sense in debating two sides of the fence, especially when both sides are right. Yes there are lonely solo rats that act out & yes there are solo rats that are thriving & totally ok with being on there own.

I have a solo rat, he is completely content & very happy about being on his own. (believe me when I say I have gone all out with attempts to get him a buddy)

I have seen solo rats that really needed a friend... my current oldest male was this & he is the reason the solo rat was brought in. It was my intent to have these two boys together... thus the reason the 3rd male came into the picture. (& now the PEW I recently took in is with them, but DD is still on his own)

As for the rat Gary has mentioned, she could very well be lonely. If he is not comfortable with getting her a friend or two in order to rule this out as being her reason for her being so shy then he should be commended for stepping up & saying maybe it would be best if he found her a new home.

Either way.... good luck


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Gary, a dumbo is a rat with just different ear placement, the rats don't care at all, since they are all the same.

are you planning on getting 2 baby girls for your gal? That is usually the easiest intro to do, since most adults will accept babies


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Hi thanks alot for your comments , ive decieded im gonna stick it out a bit longer and get her a couple of buddys , almost certainly 2 baby girls.I actually dont have the heart to re-home her as i adore her even with her faults , its just very stressful and saddening at times when i feel she doesnt trust me after all my efforts.Shes a very spoiled rat , she has a 3 floor mansion complete with tunnels, hammocks , tubes , tightropes , comfort blankets etc she has the best food i can find , plus every 2 days she gets a mixture of tomato , lettuce , cheese ,cereal, broken biscuit , walnut and any other yummys i can find that i think shed like (in small quantitys of course) i wonder if maybe im spoiling her too much ? Anyway , ill be getting her some friends in the morning so after a couple weeks in quarrantine ill let you know how the intro goes and if theres any improvement , thanks again for your advice , its chilled me out no end !


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

p.s i was kidding about her ears


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Rats all have very different personalities. She sounds similar to 2 of my girls. One lived outside for almost a month and got pregnant with wild rat. She was always a bit wild. I ended up putting her with some lovely calm older girls and once she realized they wouldn't attack her she settled down and was much happier overall and even became friendly and trusting with me.

I have another girl who is a complete follower. She is completely out of her element unless another rat can show her the way. She wigs out completely, eyes bugged, runs away, etc. She is now in with a group of 6 other girls (not necessarily gentle) and she is the most relaxed she has ever been. She even seeks me out for pats during out time. 8O 

Some rats NEED a companion, they just can't function in the #1 spot if they are solely #2's. These are the rats that blossom a lot with companions and I really hope your girl does, or at least learns from her new younger companions 

Sorry about the ear comment, I hear it all the time. :roll:


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Yeah your post makes alot of sense , i guess i didnt realise how personally and socially different each rat can be.Not to mention how poor socialisation by the pet shop can affect them.When i first bought her she was the only female dumbo they had , they brought her out in a tiny cage with a few toys in which makes me think maybe her owners brought her back for some reason as it was a pretty big store and i dont see why she wasnt out front with the others.I know i should have asked but i knew as soon as i saw those big flappy ears and badger stripe that i was taking her home.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

you may not see this before you go out to select the new rats but here it goes anyway....

let the two new one pic you... don't let your eye pic the rat for you.

It is so human of us to pick out the pretty pets & completely ignore the ordinary ones... just give them a chance to sniff you & look for their interest.

If it is a pretty floppy eared dumbo that is the perfect color & has the perfect markings... COOL... but if it that basic little PEW that looks like the 20 other rats that are housed with her... don't just look past her & reach out for the wow rat hiding in the corner wedged underneath the other 20 rats.


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Hey thanks for the advice , i wouldnt have thought of doing that but it sounds like a really good idea.So i literally just put my hand in the cage and see if any start sniffing or climbing on it ? Also can you tell me what a PEW is please , ive heard it mentioned but im not sure what it means 8O thanks


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

PEW
Pink (red) Eyed White... the standard white rat that is common to find... I think they are gorgeous in their own right

what I suggest if selecting the rat from a group of rats is watch first to see who is interested in you... you look at them & they look at you with curiousity. Often the rats are kept in a cage or tank in large numbers... tap on the tank & see how they respond, do this a couple times because the first time might be a little scarey but then curiousity will take over & they will move toward the sound.

Take your time

Once you see who is curious about your presence then start the touch test... let them come to you. Some might run straight up you arm & start cleaning themselves. 

Again, just take your time.

Put the rat back in the group & watch, see if it wants to return to you. It may jump up toward the top & try to escape back to you. Just watch them & they will tell you who wants to be your friend.

Give it time, you don't have to decide today.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

a Pink-Eyed White. Eyes that glow like pink jewels. I love them so much!!!

Very good idea Julia. Put your hand in and find one that is curious about you, and seems friendly. If they are petshop babies don't expect a lot of socialization but some are just naturally nice friendly rats...try to find one of those, forget the looks if you can, you are looking for temperament right now 

Julia, we really need to stop posting at the same time! :lol:


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

my current colony of 11... every last one of them came to the world of humans via "pet shops"

Most were considered "feeders"

Both of the nakeds originally came to their former rat mommy from a tank that the shop owner would have sold to people as feeders... it was a reptile store & many reptile owners are moving toward nakeds thinking the absence of hair makes for better food.

Tipsy, my sweet loving kissy HUGE chocolate agouti berk girl came from a feeder bin

Salty, my agouti hooded came to her original care taker from a feeder bin

Blaze, my gorgeous black dilute (not sure what to call his color to be honest) wedge blazed varigated bareback dumbo came from a feeder bin

DD (Diamond Dave he has a diamond head spot) is a blue Baldie (bareback with distinct diamond head spot) & a lightning bolt blaze dumbo, came from a breeder who is a zoo keeper of over 20 yrs who also runs a very upscale exotic store... she does not sell feeders... only rats that she has are breed for health & temperament. DD is a lover, he just doesn't like other male rats. (he is headed for a snip soon, maybe that will change his 'tude)

Nubbers, my beautiful blue rex boy that has nothing but love for his mama was originally in a feeder bin but one of the girls in the pet store saw him & rescued him from that fate & placed him in a fancy bin. I found him & totally feel for his sweetnes & just had to have him.

Jitters & her sister are blue dumbo rexes, one is a self & one is a berk (one I recently adopted back from a friend) they both came from a pet store fancy bin

The siamese girl (1 of the 4 that just came to me) came from fancy bin. I had actually picked her out for her previous care taker.. I knew that her sweet little caramel self would blossom to a beautiful 'mese

& finally my PEW rescue boy (we are still working on his name, leaning toward Ricky-Bobby *Will Ferrell in Talladega Nights* because he runs really fast in circles when he is having fun)... I have no idea where he came from but I can guess he was in a bin at a pet store with an unknown fate as to feeder or pet... just happens to be that he was selected as a pet to a young college girl who eventually found herself overwhelmed with school

So you can find some lovie-dovie rats from pet stores... you just need to do your home work on rat behavior & health & then resist the impulse of grabbing the wow rat ... beauty isn't always the indication of a well suited pet... 

oh & most important... be very VERY VERY careful about who you will do business with as far as shops are concerned. Some shops are horrible death camps. It is rare thing, but not impossible, to find a good shop that truly cares for their rodents.


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Thanks again for the posts , they are very welcome and informative.To be honest I didnt just pick Snoogles for her cute ears and markings , the fact she was in a tiny cage out back on her own made me want to look after her more ,plus she looked very calm , peaceful and loving.I honestly hadnt thought about the "come to me test" you described earlier but will certainly use it when i choose her cage mates.I just wish i knew why she was kept on her own in a tiny cage out back when shes such a sweet timid thing,Maybe she was being bullied and thats what makes her shy ? she was also fairly big when i got her , id say maybe 3-4 months old but im not sure how fast rats grow.Maybe she was used to breed?but im pretty sure the petstore i got her from dont breed their own.Anyway , im leaving it until tomorrow until i get her little buddys and when i do ill post pics.Thanks again !


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

be sure to quarantine

it will be a couple more weeks before you can do intros & that in itself is a lot to learn about, so time for you to start looking around the boards with tips on introducing rats

There are a huge number of us on here that can tell you about our own intros... I just went through a very labor intensive one & one that I didn't have to moderate at all just this last weekend. I think our little fuzzy buddies love putting us through our paces with extremes

Just for those reading this & going um-hmmm, it was the girls that gave me the fit on intros & the boys were as easy as sliced cheese.

GO FIGURE!


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

no one mentioned this option but it might be something you want to consider: get them from a rescue instead of a store if you can. and this isn't suggested on a moral or ethics base. but if you are unsure if the buddies will help then get the new buddies from a rescue instead. they will take them back if you decide its too much or if snoogles (LOVE the name btw) decides she doesn't like them. 

they will let you choose them with the friendly test mentioned before but they will also know their personalities and can give you a description of them. that may also help you find the right ones not only for snoogles but for yourself as well. 

also, they would be able to tell you any health issues if they've been there for longer then 3 weeks which may lessen or eliminate quarantine time for you (i'm not completely sure if this is effective, maybe a rescue owner or someone with more experience in quarantine can help here. but it makes intuitive sense, the quarantine would have essentially been done at the rescue).

and a rescue will have a range of ages as well. they have about the same chances of having babies when you go looking as a pet store would. also a rescue has a chance to have the full gambit of rat variations so you may even be able to find another dumbo there. 

anyway, its something to consider. but please keep us updated on snoogles and the new girls progress.


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Hi , I hadnt considered rescue animals for 2 reasons.First reason being i cant for the life of me find a rat breeder in my county let alone a rescue center.Ive tried the local papers , telephone directory and google but to no avail.The second reason is that i had always thought rescue animals would be problematic ,possibly coming from a place where they may have been mis treated by humans or just not socialized atall , and to be honest the last thing i need is a couple more overly shy and timid rats like Snoogles !However after reading your post i guess this is not always the case.Its so difficult to find female rats round here that in all honesty i cant really be choosy in where i get her cage mates from.As long as they are in good condition , healthy and respond to the "come to me test" im gonna be happy , and hopefully so will snoogles when she has some of her own kind to play with.The more i look at her now the more i think its just friends she wanted all along and i cant wait to see how she reacts to the new introductions ! (after quarrantine of course) ill keep you posted , thanks again


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

its a shame you can't find a rescue. i know good breeders are generally in scarce supply but that rescues are a bit more common. but, how large a serach area have you considered? rescues tend to have rat trains and foster homes, they may be able to get rats to you that you may not have thought of. however, i do realize that there seems to be a shortage of rescues in england and maybe even this is not possible. i have heard of "pets at home" or something along that variation, but i don't know how close that is to you or their practises. perhaps another england member can help there. even if you already got your rats it might be interesting information for the future. 

when you do get the new babies, we so demand pictures! :grin: pictures are wonderful wonderful things to awe over.


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Wow ! , im so happy now I dot really know what to say.I am now the very proud owner of a 12 week old female regular fancy rat.

I did exactly what the previous post said (passion) about letting the rat choose you,and as I type she cant get enough of me , in fact she seems worried to leave me , thank you so much to all the previous posts, they have have helped me no end.
For months i have thought i was doing something wrong but now i realise Snoogles is just a shy individual by nature.Cant wait until i can introduce them to each other.Ive decieded im calling my new adition "Esme" after a charachter from one of my favourite books by Terry Pratchett.

Anyway , must go as im being tikkled by Esme and im gonna get her back !

Thanks again , Gary


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Actually , im not sure shes is 12wks , shes v small compared to others ive seen, ill post pictures tomorrow.I cant really tell as Snoogles was my first rat to go by and im sure she must have been maybe 6 mnths old when i got her .Look at my pics and give me your opinion if you can.They were taken on the day i got her. :?


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

congradulations on the new family member! must say i love the name, mostly from where you got it but it sounds really nice on the tongue too. i love terry pratchett books too. so much so its hard to find a favorite. the mental image i get of the death of rats makes me want to cuddle him... he's so cool! :lol:


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Ha ha , absolutely ! She was just so brave and adventurous (not to mention small) that the name just jumped out at me.
Aww shes soooo cute. I think she might be a hooded , but i cant be certain as im pretty new to keeping rats.But she has an all brown head with a totally white body , apart from a brown stripe down her back after the hood.Ill post pics tomoz anyway , so hopefully you guys can let me know the actual markings.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

well that sounds like an aqouti hooded but we'll see once we get the pics. i'm so excited to see her. she sounds wonderful


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## jellybeanqueen (Sep 6, 2007)

that's awesome, i'm so happy for you!
can't wait to see pics!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Congratulations. We can definitely help you age her if you put up pics. Or I can link you to pics of young girls at 5 weeks, 6 weeks, etc and you will see the difference and figure it out yourself 

Aren't friendly babies the best?! I am sure your other girl will come out of her shell once she has a brave friend who will show her humans are a great toy


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

I have uploaded the pics to my gallery as they are too big to post here.You should get a basic idea of size and markings i think , although im not a great photographer and she wriggles alot !


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

And yeah friendly babies are awesome ! Shes so much fun and into everything ! I am slightly worried though as she seems to have starting sneezing a little bit now and again.I have read in the health section and understand this can be normal for new rats.Shes not wheezing atall and ive done the phone test where you listen to her lungs and she sounds fine.Nevertheless in gonna keep a close eye on her just to make sure and if she develops any other symptoms ill take her straight to the vet.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Black hoodie...what a darling!!!


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

H , i thought she was a hooded but wasnt sure.Any ideas on an age ~? does 12 weeks sound about right ?


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

12 weeks seems like a pretty good guesstimate


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Cool , thanks.Cant wait to introduce her to snoogles ! Its almost as if Snoogles already knows shes here , she seems happier in herself already and im sure she can smell Esme on me, even though i wash my hands between rats so as not to comprimise quarantine in any way.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

you need to change your clothes between rats as well. the buggies can carry on them. mind you if you want to do an ultra strict but as secure a quarantine as you can you'll need to wash out the inside of your nose too as you can inhale the buggies, they get stuck in your nose hair and then you can breathe that out on the other rat. at least that was what was explained to me when i read up on it and asked a friend that did it about it.


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## taralyncouture (Aug 23, 2007)

A1APassion said:


> my current colony of 11... every last one of them came to the world of humans via "pet shops"
> 
> Most were considered "feeders"
> 
> ...


What amazes me that all of those were feeders. I have no rescues or breeders near me except one that is 6 hours away. and being 15 with no transportation except grandparents that's pretty much out of the question. I looked everywhere for a dumbo when I was looking to get Fiona a friend. I couldn't find any. But i ended up falling in love with Lola a chocolate berkshire.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

why is it so amazing that "feeders" make good pets?


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Yeah feeders are rats too ! Hope i havent broken quarantine by not changing my clothes betwen rats 8O If i have let me know and ill introduce them now ! heh heh , cant wait !


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

hehe...i would say most domestic pet rats are feeder stock, even some of the prettier ones in the pet only cages.

Sometimes they all come from one breeder/rat mill and the only difference is the pretty ones get put out to sell for pets and their siblings who are plainer (less desirable) are put in the feeder bins.  I like plain rats and find this to be very sad. 
People posting to go buy the blue or the dumbo that made it into the feeder bin, when they are ignoring their siblings plight because of appearance.









My best rats have been PEW's and a black self, and a black hoodie. Right now my fav rat is a very plain light coloured mismarked hoodie anmed Kamea. She sleeps with me every night in Her pillowcase or in the cave I made of pillows , and lies on her back so I can rub her belly, and wakes me up after I have hit snooze twice by licking my chin or lying across my neck. She was feeder stock for sure!


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

it is so true about the WOW rats... you might get 1 or 2 WOW rats in a litter & the rest are fairly ordinary or mismarked... so what becomes of them?

A friend of mine dabbled with the idea of breeding hairless rats... I kept saying to this person over & over... what are you going to do with all the babies who have hair? Eventually this person decided against the venture. 

Same thing about people who think they will breed rats for specific markings or colors... hold on there, even the expert breeders of many years can't predict 100% what a litter will look like. I've seen posts from people who expected all blacks & ended up with creamy colors & orange colored fawns... genetics of markings & colors is really a crap shoot. Even when you think you have it all figured out, you end up tossing the punnett square charts right out the window.

I have made every effort to tell people time & time again... don't go for the WOW rat unless of course that WOW rat picks you. Rats will let you know in no uncertain terms whether they will be a loving pet or a nippy little shiznit that will spend 90 % of its time hiding in the corner... color, markings & ear set has nothing to do with their overall personality. You will only know their sweetness via personal interaction not from looking at a picture or staring at them through the "available rats" cage.

Gary26Uk: I'm so glad the babies you picked out are so loving & accepting of you & your touch. I really hope all goes well with the pending intros. 

As for the whole QT thing... if you have been handling the rats & not washing or changing clothes, well... you kinda already blew QT that compounded by everyone living in the shared airspace... not so sure what the point of keeping them apart is anymore. 

How long have you had the new rats now?
What is their overall health so far?
What was your experience with the location where you bought them? 
Have you been back there since getting your rats?


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Ok , first off if you had read my messages properly instead of going off on one about "wow" rats youd have pretty much all the info you needed !

1.I only only have 1 new female rat as i already said

2.Ive had her about a week and a half which you could tell by the post date

3.When i first got her i noticed she was sneezing slightly (as mentioned) but now this has stopped.This was the only symptom.She is very lively and playful , i heard no signs of "rattling" when i did the ear test on her lungs and her eyes are wide and bright.No discharge from nose either.

4.Ive been keeping her at my friends house 2 doors down who has no other pets , so it IS a different airspace

5.I HAVE been washing my hands , just not changing clothes between rats which i know from twitch may be a bit of a mistake but its done now and i honestly didnt think it would be that important.

6.The shop where i bought her was very clean , the other rats looked happy and healthy as she did when i got her.

The only way i can see ive compromised the quarantine is my not changing clothes , but after all i think rats are pretty resilient little buggers by nature if they can live in sewers and eat any refuse that humans leave behind they must be.So in short from what i can tell my new addition is in fine health.

Sorry to go off on one slightly , its just a bit annoying when you get questions youve already answered and topics which have little or no relevance to the thread title i started.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

Gary I did read the thread... I was actually asking a couple questions in order to clarify a couple things I was unsure of... just to give you peace of mind since you seemed a little tense about the fact that you weren't aware of changing clothes being necessary


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Ok , so should i introduce now or continue quarantine ?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

You are preventing some transmissions. Rat sneezes can carry but not to another room. I would advise still continuring with the in-homeQT for at least 2 weeks (you are close now), then you can start intro's.

Of course this is only if the babies are nice and healthy and stay that way


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Its not really in-home qt if my baby is in another house entirely is it ?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Gary26Uk said:


> Its not really in-home qt if my baby is in another house entirely is it ?


Ooh sorry. No. You washed your hands but didn't change your clothes? I would still continue up to the 2 weeks anyways. Basically you changed it from a full QT to similar to an in-house QT. 

For next time you are really supposed to have a complete shower/change of clothes after seeing your QT sweeties.  This can stop the spread of ectoparasites (lice/mites) and SDA, etc.


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

cool , cheers for the advice ! 4 days to go


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Hi , just a quick update.

I introduced my new addition to snoogles a couple weeks ago and things couldnt have gone better ! I followed the advice on intros and now they are best of buds.Im so glad i got another rat as watching then playing is hilarious ! little esme trys to sneak up on snoogles but when she realises she does this crazy kung fu kick with her back legs in esmes face , its sooo funny.The little one also makes this cute "eeeping" noise , which i guess is what pink eeeper means on here ? They also box with each other , clean each other and do this mad wrestling thing where one lies on her back while the other jumps on her belly , it really is adorable and snoogles is so much happier now.The best advive i ever got was to get another rat , so thanks alot everyone for your advice , its made me a happy rat owner !


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i'm glad everything worked out. it would be lovely to see some pictures of them together *hint hint*


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## Gary26Uk (Oct 2, 2007)

Heh ! No worries , as soon as I get time ill get the pics up here.


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