# How do you guys deal with hormonal aggression?



## Yuka (Sep 13, 2012)

I don't even have the rats yet and yet I'm still asking this lol. I won't have to deal with this for a while, but I'm wondering how you guys deal with hormonal aggression. I'd rather not have my rats neutered if I can help it, but is there any way to keep them from biting me and such? :c Any advice appreciated!


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## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

Unless you get a wild or half-wild rat, you shouldn't have this issue. Get young domestic males from a breeder or rescue who has socialized them and handled them a lot to be used to humans and it really shouldn't be an issue at all. If you don't get socialized ones, but they're still young, you can keep them with you as you go through daily activity and play with their tails and paws and put them on their back and let them ride your shoulder or in your shirt. This will keep them used to you and will keep them from being territorial with you.

As for being territorial with other males, just make sure the males you get are compatible with one another and that there's a clear alpha.


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## Yuka (Sep 13, 2012)

Oh really? I didn't know that! You learn something new everyday.  The little ones we have our eye on are brothers so hopefully things go smoothly. What I wanna do is sew a little pouch to hang around my neck or find a nice bag and carry them around like that when I go out lol.

And just to make sure, by "wild" and "half wild", you mean the kinda rats you find in sewers, right? (Rattie noob lol)


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## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

Sewers, garages, forests - anywhere that you wouldn't go looking for a pet, essentially. I myself have a wild rat, he was abandoned by his colony and I found him at about a week old... So sometimes people end up with wild or half-wild rats living as their pets. 

The brothers should be all right together. You may see them tussling to try and establish dominance but even if they're squeaking a bit, they're okay. It's if you see them really biting one another or trying to draw blood or hear frantic, loud, _pained _squeak-screaming that you want to be worried. Keeping them close, giving cuddles and scratching behind their ears, so on and so forth, will ensure that they bond to you.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Unlikelyfather, that is not true at all. Domestic males getting hormonally aggressive has absolutely nothing to do with socializing. Its an overload of hormones that basically set off territorialism that can turn into uncontrollable rages. IF a breeder only uses males that do not go through this stage the resulting male offspring have less and less chance of it. BUT most rats are bred very carelessly, or its not a good breeder and ignoring any temperament issues in their sire. So hormonal aggression is sadly very very common.

Signs of this are

mild - digging with forepaws, rubbing against objects to mark their territory with the glands over their hips., pushing around their cagemates a little, but nothing scary
medium - the digging is more violent, the rubbing is severe, the flanks get wet, going after their cagemates, and chasing them and a few ratballs with no real injuries
severe - digging, rubbing, huffing, fur puffed up, sidling with head down, pushing his cagemates until they run then attacking, constant harrassing of them, biting their human. Hormonal males don't slashy bite they chomp down...do NOT touch a hormonal males back or rump, as they will whirl and bite you if you aren't fast enough.

The medium and severe rats should be neutered. Especially if the medium is starting to nip the human or the cage is unhappy. DO not let a possibly hormonal male climb on your hand or arm...they are trying to dominate you, and you can end up hurt. They might start by licking, then it will be nipping and then it goes into savage biting. Also be careful they can attack feet, you push them away and they will run back at you to bite...a hormonal male is a scary boy sometimes.

I wasn't being careful here, not paying enough attention. Keiran had only just shown signs of being hormonal, he was normally a very sweet boy, but whammo...he goit my arm...and I was quick to stop him too, as it would've been much worse.










He was neutered and quickly became my darling sweet gentle boy again...with a harem of girlfriends


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## RatzRUs (Feb 5, 2012)

Lilspaz is right that is not true. Midnight became very hormonal with me and bit me multiple times and wouldn't let go..I had too eventually neauter him and peanut and now they are as sweet as can be  and both have girlfriends that beat them up regulary


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## Yuka (Sep 13, 2012)

Oh dear Lord. O.O That's quite the nasty bite! Guess I'll need to set up a neutering fund lol...


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Yuka said:


> Oh dear Lord. O.O That's quite the nasty bite! Guess I'll need to set up a neutering fund lol...


You might never need it, so then it can be added to your vet fund.


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## Yuka (Sep 13, 2012)

lilspaz68 said:


> You might never need it, so then it can be added to your vet fund.


Yeah, I suppose lol But I'm super paranoid about it. I'm assuming that once - IF - they show the signs of aggression, then that's when they get their bits chopped off?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Yuka said:


> Yeah, I suppose lol But I'm super paranoid about it. I'm assuming that once - IF - they show the signs of aggression, then that's when they get their bits chopped off?


yes 

Just a tip, boys that don't really develop buck grease or as much of it, are the ones that are unlikley to have hormonal issues...the grease is produced due to the hormones.


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## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

lilspaz68 said:


> Unlikely...


Ah my bad. It was late and I was exhausted so I generalized. I haven't met many folks who had problems with hormonal aggression in their domestics that they've told me about, including my ex girlfriend who had half a dozen rats at one point in her pack. I wasn't intending to imply that it was impossible, just saying from my experience that it shouldn't have been a problem. 

On top of that I was really only thinking territorial aggression and not hormonal overload, but both instances have been uncommon in the male rats I've known. Maybe everyone in my social circle has gotten incredibly lucky on that front.


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## IOVERATS (Aug 25, 2012)

I'm really concerned about this issue too! I was gonna get boys from an apparently great breeder, but now I'm not so sure! How common is hormonal aggression? I don't want to have to go through all that, and after seeing that picture of the bite to the arm, I'm even less sure about getting males, I wanted to get males badly but now I'm thinking about getting girls! Please help! I know this isn't my thread but please, can you tell me how common it is to get a hormonally aggressive rat? 

Next time I'll start my own thread but this seems like a good place to ask  


A wise t-shirt once said 'my rats think your gross too!' directed at all you rat haters out there!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

If it truly is a really good breeder, not just a moderate breeder or a BYB then they should be breeding for good temperament and likely wouldn't use a boy that ended up hormonally aggressive. But ther3e's not that many of those breeders out there sadly.

It also depends on your area but I would say 1 in 6-10 rats? Maybe? It's just a guess...

With boys you can have typical illness, malignant tumours (fairly rare) and possible hormonal aggression. Girls sadly give you a lot more medical issues unless they are spayed. Mammary tumours, PT, uterine infections, uterine cysts etc. on top of illnesses and malignant tumours.


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## IOVERATS (Aug 25, 2012)

lilspaz68 said:


> If it truly is a really good breeder, not just a moderate breeder or a BYB then they should be breeding for good temperament and likely wouldn't use a boy that ended up hormonally aggressive. But ther3e's not that many of those breeders out there sadly.
> 
> It also depends on your area but I would say 1 in 6-10 rats? Maybe? It's just a guess...
> 
> With boys you can have typical illness, malignant tumours (fairly rare) and possible hormonal aggression. Girls sadly give you a lot more medical issues unless they are spayed. Mammary tumours, PT, uterine infections, uterine cysts etc. on top of illnesses and malignant tumours.


Okay, thanks  I'll have to go to the breeder and find out the truth, she seems like a genuine person and I think I can trust her... And about all those horrible sounding illnesses... I hope that I don't get too many of them if I decide to get girls (well, boys too) 

Thanks again  


A wise t-shirt once said 'my rats think your gross too!' directed at all you rat haters out there!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

IOVERATS said:


> Okay, thanks  I'll have to go to the breeder and find out the truth, she seems like a genuine person and I think I can trust her... And about all those horrible sounding illnesses... I hope that I don't get too many of them if I decide to get girls (well, boys too)
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> ...


You should definitely read this article done up by Sorraia of Black Wolf Rattery.

http://blackwolfrattery.com/redflags.html


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## IOVERATS (Aug 25, 2012)

lilspaz68 said:


> You should definitely read this article done up by Sorraia of Black Wolf Rattery.
> 
> http://blackwolfrattery.com/redflags.html


Thank you so much, I read it and I'm printing it off and then taking it in my pocket when I go visit... So I can see if she is exhibiting any of these signs.  thanks again, you've really helped a lot  


A wise t-shirt once said 'my rats think your gross too!' directed at all you rat haters out there!


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## Yuka (Sep 13, 2012)

Lol all the issues that can come with girls is why I figured boys would be better. Plus I wanted a lap rat so yeah lol. I'll get my babies are socialized as I possibly can and hopefully. Here's hoping all goes well a few months from now.


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## IOVERATS (Aug 25, 2012)

Yuka said:


> Lol all the issues that can come with girls is why I figured boys would be better. Plus I wanted a lap rat so yeah lol. I'll get my babies are socialized as I possibly can and hopefully. Here's hoping all goes well a few months from now.


Yup, me exactly I'm so unsure of what gender :\ I was thinking female seeing as their my first ever Rat's however they have so many illnesses etc that I'm not sure now, and as for the hormonal aggression in male rats I'm even more 'sitting on the fence!' will have to keep thinking on it :\


A wise t-shirt once said 'my rats think your gross too!' directed at all you rat haters out there!


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## Yuka (Sep 13, 2012)

IOVERATS said:


> Yup, me exactly I'm so unsure of what gender :\ I was thinking female seeing as their my first ever Rat's however they have so many illnesses etc that I'm not sure now, and as for the hormonal aggression in male rats I'm even more 'sitting on the fence!' will have to keep thinking on it :\
> 
> 
> A wise t-shirt once said 'my rats think your gross too!' directed at all you rat haters out there!


Every pet has its ups and downs and rats are no exception. Who knows, maybe you'll get ratties who are lucky and don't get any kinda illness at all!


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## bluebo (Sep 17, 2012)

I was just wondering- at what age does do male hormones start kicking in? Thanks!


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## Yuka (Sep 13, 2012)

I think it's around the 3-6 months age mark.


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## Tabitha drake (Aug 25, 2012)

Does hormonal aggression ever stop without neutering?


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