# Debbie �The Rat Lady� Ducommun, Rat Health Care, Oops?



## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

*Debbie “The Rat Lady” Ducommun, Rat Health Care, Oops?*

Being new to the world of rats, I have been doing much research on rat health, behavior etc. This is something I want/ need to be familiar with to take the best possible care of my ratties. Last night, I came across the book, 'Rat Health Care', by Debbie “The Rat Lady” Ducommun. It seemed to be a good book, with many great reviews. An internet search seemed to indicate that she is reliable. So I ordered the book. 

But then this morning I found out other things about her. Performing procedures without a license and recommending against pain meds for a broken leg.

As a former vet student and working in a clinic, there are some things that I can/ know how or what to do. That knowledge has helped me tremendously to be able to care for the many animals that show up at my front door. It's handy information to have. If it's something I know how to handle without a vet, I will do it. I'm not talking about surgeries. I'm referring to common ailments and minor injuries that tend to come up for most any animal that would cost an unnecessary amount in vet bills. Anything beyond that, we go to the vet. 

That being said, most of my knowledge is for cats and dogs. Not rats. So I was excited to find this book, especially given that so people have had problems with vets not being familiar with rats . BUT, the more I read this morning, the more questions I have as to the reliability of her book. There are many, many people who say her book has been a Godsend. It seems there are fewer who think she's crazy. 

I read the screen shots of her conversation with a woman on FB. I agree that performing surgery without a license, anesthesia or pain meds is cruel, risky, outright stupid. But, does this mean that the entire book is unreliable?

I would really like the opinions of the people around here who seem to have in depth knowledge of health care for rats.

If you think I should toss this book, can you recommend something else I can keep on hand as a reference/adjunct to the advice I know I can seek here? And to take with me to the vet if need be?

Thank you so much for your input.


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## keegen456 (Mar 2, 2016)

I have absolutely no knowledge on the book or vet care but I just wanted to say that the Debbie lady lives in my town. She actually lives about 5 minutes from me. The lady I got my boys from says that Debbie helps pay for rat vet care and spay/neutering for people who can't afford it here in northern Cali.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

I have no doubt that she is a very caring person who loves animals, that wants them to have good lives. 

That being said, it does not mean that all of her information is reliable. For example, I have witnessed spay procedures in dogs and cats. I _could_ do the operation myself. However, I do not have the equipment or access to necessary anesthetics, tools, or a proper sanitaray environment to do such procedures. 

And, since I've never actually been trained under the supervision of a qualified doctor of veterinary medicine, I would not be considered a reliable surgeon.


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## InuLing (Dec 26, 2015)

I personally don't agree with some of the things she does but you can't ignore the fact that she does have experience. I own one of her books myself and have read it but I would never take her just at her word. I would never suggest anyone to take her at her word. She is not perfect, she is not a vet, and she does not know everything there is to know about rats. By calling herself the rat lady she has created an image for herself that she is the person for all things rat, and that is simply not true. Everything I read from her gets double or triple checked either on the Internet or through other book sources. I trust the people on here more than I trust her and I know there are some people who think she's just awful while others think she is perfect and no one is better. I personally stand somewhere in between. I agree she's done some awful things and she's also done some wonderful things. It's not my job to judge and I would never want to.

I would say go ahead and read the book, but never let it be your only source. You need to back up that information from other sources, especially considering some of her more 'questionable' practices when it comes to rat health and care.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

I think some of the information is good, some is out of date, and some is really out of whack even dangerous or immoral. The problem is which is what?? You would have to go through each section bit by bit. I personally use Ratguide.com as its the most up to date, factual website for rat physiology, health care, medications etc. I know some of the people involved and they tirelessly devote their time and energy to this labor of love (and facts) and best of all it's FREE.


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

catty-ratty said:


> If you think I should toss this book, can you recommend something else I can keep on hand as a reference/adjunct to the advice I know I can seek here? And to take with me to the vet if need be?
> 
> Thank you so much for your input.


There is a thread on the forums about her somewhere. I do not find what she has done very ethical or right. I haven't read her book, I think she does have some good rat knowledge and experience but other things she gets wrong and may not be great advice.

I do not think any one source should be a end all. 

My go to site is http://ratguide.com it is hands down the best guide/info on rat health anywhere. It has a wealth of info.

I also highly recommend the facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/RealRatLoversWantToKnow/
it is made up of experts and vets, and those who are have been approved and people who post who are not have to say IMO/IME (in my opinion/experience) so you know who you are getting advice from. Their file section has great info and they are always awesome at answering questions.
Follow their rules to a T though!


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

lilspaz68 said:


> I personally use Ratguide.com as its the most up to date, factual website for rat physiology, health care, medications etc. I know some of the people involved and they tirelessly devote their time and energy to this labor of love (and facts) and best of all it's FREE.


I just added this site to my bookmarks. 

Unfortunately for me, I've just always preferred to have a book to look through.  But I AM grateful that info can be found on websites. I absorb things more easily that way. I'll just use her book as a starting place, maybe?

I've been reading all the threads in regards to health of rats so I can be as informed as possible if/ when something comes up. For me, knowing nothing at all is much scarier than having some idea of what is going on. 

Thanks


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

Just requested to join the FB group!


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## keegen456 (Mar 2, 2016)

I don't know anything else about her. I haven't read her books or anything. I just thought it was kinda neat that the lady you were talking about lives blocks away from me lol. That being said, I don't think anyone should be doing those kind of procedures unless they have had schooling and lots of experience. I couldn't imagine doing anything like that myself. I can barely glue up one of my children's cuts without second guessing whether I should take them in for stitches! And I'm talking about little cuts, not serious ones!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Catty-ratty, RRLWK is a great forum, but strictly medical. There are Admins who scour all the posts, redirect to files, and tag the appropriate Contributors. If you create a post, put a succinct title all in caps to make it easier for everyone. We allow pics that other groups do not but do not allow cgit-chat or members posting without IME, IMO, Not a Contributor but...


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

Thanks, I'll be sure to look at guidelines of the group


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## Love My Rats (Sep 3, 2015)

me to


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## amandad (Apr 20, 2015)

From what I've seen and researched about Debbie, she seems to be a nice lady and very knowledgeable, though some of her advice or knowledge is a bit outdated (as some on other various forums have said). I've talked to her on the phone before (she's called my place of work). She was very nice and was elated that I knew who she was based off of the questions she had asked. She actually does use anesthesia when she performs her surgeries. She's put her all into her life long study of rats, health care, etc... and it a very passionate woman. While I, personally, do not think that her "practices" are entirely ethical, she helps those who are strapped for money in ways that probably no one else would.

With all of this being said, I would do a bit more research on her before making any options or judgments about her.


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## Verucasdad (Aug 31, 2015)

She has a lot of experience behind her. California does not have any statute against what she does. You need to do as others do with rules, pick and choose what benefits you. I have her book, which is still in print, and found it useful.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

I did order it. 

It's some of the things she's posted on FB that have made me question what is in the book. I haven't seen it yet, and I'm not so familiar with rats like I am other animals. I would probably know if someones advice about a dog or cat was wrong, but not a rat.

I intend to check everything anyway. Even if I had a veterinarians PDR, I'd still check things on the internet to make sure I understand it correctly.


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## Finnebon (Jul 15, 2013)

Some of her practices are very controversial and I don't agree with everything she's done or reccommends (such as her not being a vet yet still performing surgeries and necropsies, and at home euthanasia using dry ice to basically slowly and hopefully gently suffocate a rat) BUT she also has a lot of really good experience and really good advice, and I think she does try to do what she believes is best for her rats while also learning from experience. She may also be a little too sure of herself and literally has her own fanclub fueling that, but she truly does have some really valuable experience and advice to give. I woudl take most of her advice with a grain of salt and use her reccommendations as a starting point for your own research or to take your own (good) rat vet to ask if it seems like it's a little sketchy.

I will also say that she was personally very helpful to me and does try her best to respond to messages and give advice. She was also very nice. When I adopted a pregnant high white girl almost 3 years ago, she gave birth a few days later to wonderful babies who also were all high white. 2 babies ended up with megacolon which I never would have recognized without the heads up from this RatForum and from her website. When I thought MC was a real possibility for these babies after seeing poop stuck in their butts after they started eating solid foods, I contacted Debbie and told her my story and asked for advice. She recommened me to her articles written by her on MC care, and some written by others. She also gave me more advice and answered all my questions. These two babies lived full adult lives. One just passed away in November from kidney failure, and the other is still alive and doing well, and is a 2 year 8 month old senior boy. With proper special diet, frequent enemas, medications, and monitoring, he has lived a full life. I'm sad his sister passed away so soon.. but she was also doing very well with her treatments, and if she did not suffer from kidney failure, she would be alive today too. She also told me about a great GREAT rat vet that's almost 2 hours away from me (who is based in her home town) and I am eternally grateful. Every time I've made the drive up to see him, I am NEVER disappointed and even get more than I hoped/expected from the visit and it is always so worth the drive up to see him. I always feel relieved and happy when I leave. I've never found a vet anywhere near his level of care, kindness, understanding, and experience. I can't say enough good things about him. His expertise makes me want to move up closer to his city! Haha

I would personally use RatGuide for medical references first, and then for supplemental reading read Debbie's articles that are more detailed and you can read personal experiences. Also always check forum posts, on this forum and others like ratshack and goosemoose. There are some very good people and good advice on these forums too. The book would definitely be a good resource to have on hand. And you can always email her with questions, but you might not get an immediate answer.


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## Sal (Mar 21, 2016)

catty-ratty said:


> That being said, it does not mean that all of her information is reliable.


I am part of her Facebook group and have read her website many times... In general I find a lot of the information to be out-dated or not corroborated in research papers I've seen.

For those reasons I've tried to avoid any info that has come from avid fans of hers and it's in part why I ended up on here. While a lot of her info is good it's stuff that's quite basic that I already know. For anything more specialist I'd avoid her at this point!

One of the biggest problems facing our whole community (forums, groups, websites) as a whole is information that's anecdotal or based off of nothing but personal opinion or experience.


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## catty-ratty (Feb 21, 2016)

I personally have a pretty broad knowledge of how to care for cats, far beyond the average person. I don't mind sharing what I know with people. Most of the things I can do are because I know where to get things without a prescription (a feed store). There are some things I can do that most people are afraid to do, like draining abcesses and subcutious injections.And some things because I briefly studied vet medicine. 

But I'm always very imfatic in pointing out that I am _not_ a vet and I encourage them to verify everything I tell them by checking on the internet. 

I would never attempt surgery. Even if I had access to aenisthetics, and even though I've assisted in surgeries, many times, I was never trained to do those procedures. I can't imagine how awful I'd feel if I killed or permanently injured my pets or someone elses. That, in my opinion, is a pretty big risk to take, whether you are helping someone or not.


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## Fu-Inle (Jan 22, 2015)

I think any information books should be taken with a grain of salt. Books become outdated when new information is discovered, the internet is far better for up to date information.


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