# Dominant rat covering other in scabs. Already neutered: NEED advice!!



## FiMarie (Jan 19, 2013)

I was having some issues with Cato beating Milosh up to the point where Milosh was acting scared of everything and was losing weight (Cato wouldn't let him eat). I had Cato neutered and initially he calmed down a LOT. It's been about 2 months since his surgery and he's back to being JUST as aggressive as before. Milosh is covered in even more scabs and is not allowed to eat again. I already scatter feed. I have several levels in my cage and I sprinkle food on every one. They don't have hide-away type accessories to fight over, just a few hammocks. I rent an apartment and I am only allowed to have two pets. They made an exception for 3 because the rats are in the same cage, but they will NOT allow me to have 3 cages. I do not want to rehome him or separate them, but at this point I really do not know what else to do. I've tried os many things (including immersion training). I do believe they see me as the alpha because they rarely squabble while I am home. When they do, I just have to snap my fingers and they stop immediately. I'm not even home to see most of what happens but when I am it is ALWAYS Cato going after Milosh for sniffing a piece of food, moving while he's being watched by Cato or sometimes for no reason at all.

So far advice has been to scatter feed and try immersion training... which I've done. The only thing about the immersion training is that I'm away at work from 8:30-7:30 almost daily so I don't think it matters to them that I'm the alpha unless I'm in the apartment with them. Milosh grows more and more timid every day and has more and more scabs every day. PLEASE, please, please somebody give me some new advice... ???


----------



## FiMarie (Jan 19, 2013)

One more thing: The vet said that it could take 3-5 months for Cato's hormoned to really subside. He said they would be lowest immediately after surgery, then re-surge for a few months... but he's worse and worse and I'm terrified that he will really hurt Milosh. I'm afraid to leave them together.


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Before I make any further comment, please describe the scabs and their location and are your rats scratching a lot? Mites can look like injuries too. And mite infested rats can act withdrawn.


----------



## FiMarie (Jan 19, 2013)

They aren't scratching any more than normal. Cato has very few scabs that are about the size of a pin head. I looked him over and he has 3 of them. One by his elbow, one under his neck and one on his arm. Milosh is covered in small scabs and scratches. Last week he only had a few and now he's covered. I will upload a picture if that will help. If it was mites, wouldn't they both be scabby?


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

They can have mites without showing symptoms outright, I've read. Treating mites won't adversely affect the rats, so it is worth pursuing.


----------



## FallDeere (Sep 29, 2011)

FiMarie said:


> If it was mites, wouldn't they both be scabby?


When mites show up on my rats, Meeko tends to have entire patches of scabs, covering half of his neck and then scattered everywhere else. The rest of the boys tend to have fewer (quite a few fewer, usually). My girls have NEVER ever had any scabs, despite the boys in the cage_ right beside them_ being covered in scabs.

If feeding is a problem, you could try feeding Milosh outside the cage. When Bartok was being picked on and lost a lot of weight, I hand-fed him baby food every day to get his weight up.


----------



## FiMarie (Jan 19, 2013)

Here are some pictures of the scabs. I've used Ivermectin for lice before, will it work for mites as well? Even if it is mites, how do I deal with Cato's aggression? I doubt getting rid of (possible) mites will stop him from pushing Milosh off of shelves, biting him and bullying him. This has been going on since adolescence hit. I feel like I wasted my money on neutering him and put him through undue stress at this point.


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Those look a bit like mites to me.

Dominant rats can be bullies. Usually, the submissive rat has chances to avoid it. That is, there are a few steps before the sub is given the choice "I can push you off this ledge or you can jump". 
Is there any 3 day weekend when you can reattempt immersion? Ideally, once the training is done it is sunk in. That is, imagine a dog trained to not pee in the house. It doesn't pee in the house regardless of my presence. It associates that behavior with a punishment and the opposite behavior (say, going out the door to pee or on a mat) with a reward.


----------



## FiMarie (Jan 19, 2013)

Any further advice from anybody about aggression? Or whether or not I should treat for mites and how?


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

You treat mites with revolution, search the rat health threads for how to get and use it. It's the best.

Rat bites look like two pinholes next to each other. If your problem is aggression, your rats will need your time hands on to reinforce correct pack structure. You are right immersion only works when you can be hands on, but that's the way rats work. Asking how to fix rat behavioral problems without being there and hands on is a lot like trying to fix a flat on the road without a spare tire or a jack.

If it's mites you can treat them without changing your lifestyle otherwise your problem is going to be very hard to solve.


----------



## FiMarie (Jan 19, 2013)

Well... I had treated them for mites. Milosh has no scabs on him now, he acts as outgoing as he did before and the bullying is seriuously reduced. Thank you so much!


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I know most people prefer to hear me ramble on the topic of fixing aggression, but you did a good job of describing your problem so you got a meaningful answer and I'm glad it was only mites.


----------

