# Building a new cage this week!



## Loki (May 28, 2008)

I'm going to be building a cage for my rats this week. The ones I currently have are just to small so it's time to start building the bigger, better, rat paradise!

Since there going to be outside I'm rather tempted to put in some sort of air conditioning to keep them cool in the summer and a heater for the winter. (thoughts on this?) 

On materials: Will they chew through wood? Is it even safe to use wood? Should I cover the interior with a metal mesh? What should I use for a door? I was thinking double doors, one for top, one for bottom for safer access. 

Climbing and stairs: Ramps? 'People' type stairs? Ladders? What to use?!

Height: Whats a decent height? I'm 5'5 myself, but a stool or a chair wouldn't be a problem. 

All together there is going to be 5 to 6 adult rats living in there at once so this is going to end up being a rather BIG cage. Any and all suggestions are very much welcome.

I'm so excited about this I want to start building right now xD


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## amandahoney (May 14, 2007)

...outside? like, in a shed or something i hope? definitely heat and air condition! where do you live?

some rats will chew right through wood. are you talking about a cabinet-type cage or a wire cage? have you done some research online for inspiration? just do a google search for "homemade rat cage" and see what other people have done.


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## Loki (May 28, 2008)

The outsiders are in the 'workshop' (what used to be a garage, now a tool vortex) in a wire cage with a fan going 24/7 to keep them cool. I visit them every morning with fresh food and water and cuddle them all >.< I have my three girls sleeping in my lap right now XD

I live in Missouri, near Kansas. The cage is going to be 'outside', as in, in the workshop. I'm not sure what would be better for them, wire or wood. 

I'm thinking wood because I could heat and cool it easier than a wire cage....


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## amandahoney (May 14, 2007)

hmm, do you think so? ventilation might be a problem with wood. also, unless it's sealed really, really well, wood will absorb humidity and urine from the rats and start to mildew. and if you have chewers, they might make a hole and escape- and outside is a dangerous place to escape.

check out the links on this page.


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

I think a bit more research would be best before you start building. Wood cages are a pain in the rear! The rats WILL chew it, and if you don't seal the wood good enough and with non toxic paint (so they don't die when they chew it) it will absorb urine smells big time making your cage nasty quickly!! Also, an all wood cage will not allow enough ventilation. Rat urine has a strong amonia smell, that amonia is enough to cause some major respiritory issues requiring tons of vet bills to treat. 

Doing some google searches, looking around this board, ect. will be a good place to start if your considering a bigger cage. Also, depending on your current cages, you could combine them to make a "frankencage". 

Wanted to point out one more thing. Home made cages while they seem to be a cheaper alternative end up costing more than a purchased one in the end. Most people end up spending more than $200 to make a good long lasting one. For that price you could purhcase a super nice cage!


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## Skitza (May 18, 2008)

can't wait for pics!


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## Loki (May 28, 2008)

Alright, I've got a few plan updates for the cage. 

I'm going to be building it out of wood (or at least most of it) with some sort of powder coated metal bars or mesh over the interior walls so the ratties can't chew there way to freedom. I'm considering moving the bars/mesh a little bit away from the walls even. Maybe an eight of an inch or so. 

Let there be windows! I want to include at least one or two windows per level with tight, lockable shutter type deals on the outside. There will, of course, be either bars or mesh over all of them in addition to the stuff I want to put on the inside.

I was considering putting in PVC piping like I saw on one cage for the ramps. My dad does remodeling and construction for a living so we have big PVC pipes laying all over the place. But, I've decided against piping. It's bulky, and the ratties would chew them to pieces. I'm afraid they might also try to chew on the joint glue and get poisoned D= 
I don't think the glue is toxic, but I don't want to risk it either way.
Instead, I'm going to be going the old fashioned regular wooden ramp way. I most definitely want to put small wood slats on them so it's easier to climb up and down. 

Theres going to be three levels. I'm not sure how big yet, but big enough to at least accommodate a monster rat wheel. My ratties love there wheel and it'd be mean to deprive them of one. 

Two words: Removable flooring. All the floors and ramps are going to be easily removable (by humans at least) for easy cleanup. I'm thinking along the lines of: Remove rats and toys. Take out a screw or two. Pull out the floors. Hose 'em off. Take rest of cage. Remove electronics. Hose it off. Let dry. Re-assemble. 

The bottom floor is going to be a 'double floor'. There will be the main structure with small drain holes drilled into the bottom board for when the whole thing gets hosed. Then a board without holes on top of that so the ratties don't get any brilliant escape ideas. 

The door is going to be your standard wood-n'-mesh type. Lockable. But otherwise nothing special XD

As for heating and cooling...
I'm thinking small, removable fans in the summer and a space heater that will just keep the whole shop warm for the winter. I'll probably mount the fans on the outside of the 'windows' to keep the air circulating and cool. 
On hot hot days (anything above 85 degrees Fahrenheit) everyone is moved inside anyways so super cooling isn't an issue. 
Nor does it get super cold here in the winter either. 


Opinions? I'll be doing calculations and measurements today. I might even draw up some makeshift blue prints on the computer.


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

Well honestly, IT won't work, and it is going to cause some major health problems!!!!! 

-They need WAY more ventilation, at least 2 sides fully opened to air for the air flow to be adequate. Your essentially building them a tank out of wood. You can see the sticky about aquariums vs. cages at the top of this section of the forum. 

-You will still need to seal the wood. Even if they can't chew it, they will still pee on it making the wood weak and stink quickly! With no ventilation that will mean MAJOR health issues! 

-Wood ramps... They are wood, they need sanded, sealed, they need non toxic paint, and they WILL be chewed so make extra's.... 

- Floors with screws sounds to me like a place for pee to collect! 

-Can you please explain "remove electronics" because now I'm seriously confused!!!!! Electronics in a rat cage? Sounds dangerous! 

- Your going to need more than just fans to keep them cool when your entire cage is going to be enclosed.... You will be blowing around amonia smelling air. 

-Drain holes??? Your kidding right? Wood is going to absorb the moisture, no matter how much you hose it off it isn't going to matter if it drains or not you won't get that smell out therefore hosing it is pointless as is having holes for the water to drain. 

Honestly, with everything your saying here with the time to build, with the ideas that while they sound good in theory in practice won't work well AT ALL. Have you considered spending your money on a nice cage and then modifying it so it works better in the winter. I can see getting a nice $60- $80 cage (which will be cheaper and FAR less hassle than making your own) and in the winter backing it into a corner with some insulation (that the rats can't get to) to help keep it warmer in the winter. Then the cage will be easy to clean, easy to decorate for the rats (because let me tell you I've built SEVERAL home made cages and ALL of them are horrid to decorate to keep rats interested enough and not bored) and most of all safer and cleaner!! I worry about ventilation in your current description of the cage, I worry about all that wood they are going to pee on and ruin, I worry about alot, sounds like more hassle and FAR more money than you think.


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## Prime654 (Aug 22, 2008)

Heres a video on how a woman coverted a Bookshelf / cabinet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lIEmtOWc28

Some off the cuff suggestions (from my previous, probably outdated experience):

- Ramps: buy bird ladders from the pet store, you can find plastic or wood ones, wood will absorb urine / oil and stink though (not to mention get chewed through), so expect to replace them often. If your father does remodelling, having him create ladders from dowels might be an option.

- Like in the video you probably want to use a bookcase/cabinet as your base. Iif you do, you would want to make sure the front and back is open / covered with your wire mesh. I recommend using a laminated wood product (for the base stucture) since it can be wiped up easier, and avoid using untreated wood anywhere in the structure or trying to seal the wood with paint / sealer. Rats will chew it eventually and you want to avoid anything that could even be remotely toxic.

-If your using a laminate wood product, avoid drilling any holes in it and exposing the wood inbetween the layers (like the woman in the video did to allow access between levels). If you do, I would suggest making sure its the same size as a pvc pipe that you can tightly fit in to the hole blocking the exposed wood (and avoiding the use of glue / sealer) . However, even with this method moisture (urine) can still get into the untreaded wood, specially if its a vertical hole and the liquid pools around the rim. Your pets however wont be able to chew at the exposed area. A friend of mine drilled a hole, slid in a very short PVC pipe, sealed it with a laytex caulking, then capped the the PVC with 2 screw on rings which prevented rat access to caulking.

- for the levels / flooring, I wouldnt use stick-on tile like the woman in the video suggests, I would either custom cut plexiglass (must be thick or it will be too flexible and bow in the middle) for the floors. If your using a bookshelf, I imagine it woulld be easy enough to remove the shelf, cut a piece of plexi the same size and replace the shelf with the plexi. Plexiglass can be drilled through to allow access between levels.

- I would avoid the use of electronics such as a fan or heater directly attached to the cage. Imagine what would happen if your rattie slipped their hand through the grating and was hit with the spinning fan or touched a heating element? If you able to somehow manage to _safely_ include a fan, I dont think you would want to be blowing air into the cage, but blowing out the air in the cage (an exhaust fan).

Like others have said, a custom cage will most likely be pricey. I think your figuring its cheaper since your father is in contruction and many of the materials are already available. Perhaps that will be the case, but if in the end it going to be costing more then 175$ your better off getting a premade cage. It does sound like a fun project and I can definately understand why soomeone would want to attempt it.

Also, I wouldnt expect custom cages to last very long (if made out of wood), around a year max and with no or little chance for resale.


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## Loki (May 28, 2008)

lovinmyworm: Sorry for not being clearer, I understand your concern. 
YES, the wood will be properly sealed, including any holes/ramps/etc. I am very aware of the dangers of unsealed wood and rat urine. Not only is a hazard to your rats, but to humans and any other pets as well. Any screw holes will be sealed from curious ratties, I wouldn't want them chewing on things like that. 

With 'remove electronics' I mean removing any fans or heaters. 

I see your point with having two sides open for better ventilation. This is going to be a definite addition to my plans.


Prime: 
I'll most defiantly be checking out the video you provided. I'm also quite aware of the cost and resale issues ^^ but this is something I rather set on doing, and pretty much all the materials used are going to be recycled ones. 


Please have some patience with me guys, this is a work in progress. I'm still working out what to do about a floor covering. Untreated wood is a extreme hazard, but having urine pooling on a heavily sealed floor with no where to go is even more of one. I'll post more updates and improvements soon.


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## Marysmuse (Apr 28, 2008)

Did you consider linoleum for the floor? waterproof, easy to clean.

Just a thought

-Mary


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

If you wipe down the cage floors once a day it won't be a problem any more than a normal cage. Honestly you aren't going to get the urine to pool and drain away. The closest thing I've seen to this is the super pet cages with the pee traps that are a nightmare! They sound like a good idea, but in practice not so much. You can use floor mats like what you have for your car or an office to cover the carpet so you chair can slide over it as an alternative flooring. You will still have to wipe it down though. If you are opposed to wiping it down, you can always line it with a couple layers of fleece and just change them out. Fleece is commonly used to line cages with. 

As for electronics, keep them FAR FAR away from the cage!! My rats can reach anything that is within 6in of their cage so keep that in mind. Granted I have NO idea how they get to things that far away as their arms aren't that long, but somehow they do! It's a serious danger. 

I was just pointing out the flaws in your design so you could correct them. I understand being set in building a cage, I once was too. Just don't spend too much!


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## philosophyfox (Aug 28, 2008)

I think if they offer enough space, including the depth (ie. the size from the front to the back) of the cage, than home made cages can be great. Store bought cages rarely are the right shape, size or have the right access for what I want to do, so when I get space (or at least my own house rather than renting  ) I intend on building my own enclosure similar to an aviary, so I can get in, rather than a cage.

I have store bought cages at the moment, and I'm about to order a larger one, but I have had a home made cage in the past:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/philosophyfox/100_2361.jpg

According to the calculator, it could have held 8, but I think my 4 at the time was the maximum I'd go to.
I got 2 years out of it with a lone rat (  didn't know any better  ) and a year with 4 rats in it. Then I had to bin it due to pee staining, and causing resp issues in one of the rats. 

In hindsight I could have got more life out of it if I'd kid safe painted it and added fablon to the back wall to stop pee dribbling and staining it, see top of the following picture:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/philosophyfox/tribandgumb.jpg

My first rat never bothered to chew the cage, but one of the later occupants had a bit of a nibble but never too much. I also had to insert eyelets to the cage top to be able to hang hammocks, which annoyed me and limited my set up somewhat. 

I really liked the access however, as one door bolted shut so I didn't have a double door rat escape happen. Cleaning wasn't too bad, if done every 5 days with soapy water, but it needed to be left to dry for at least two hours (happy free ranging rats in that time though  ) I hated it when I finally got round to replacing it, but in hindsight, it offered a bit more enrichment opportunities than cages I have owned since.

I think if you think about the key things when building you can have a good, spacious *safe* home, if you bear in mind accessibility, ventilation, protection of wood / other materials and space. Good luck!


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## junior_j (Jan 24, 2008)

If personally u have the time , money , pateience and u know u could spend 100 dollars and if it didnt work out u have a back up plan ready then go for it

As long as ur ratties dont suffer in any way shape or form then u should be ok
Jess x


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## Loki (May 28, 2008)

lovinmyworm: I hope I didn't come off as offensive in my last post xD I love it that everyone is pointing out flaws and potential dangers so that my ratties might have the safest and best home one could provide. 

I keep all my fans/heaters/etc. nearly a foot away from my cages. There close enough to be useful, but far enough away to keep the ratties from getting any ideas xD

Fox: I have honestly not found a manufactured cage that I would really, really, like for my little pack. Like you said, they rarely have the right size or shape. One of my biggest pet peeves is what a pain they are to give a good scrubbing. I'd want something thats easy to disassemble and reassemble for a good hosing down. 

Junior: I think the biggest cost is going to be the sealer for the wood. My dad even suggested using stiff chicken wire with wood around the edges. It's a good idea, but I don't like the lurking danger of paws slipping through and getting stuck or seriously injured. 


I'll be drawing up and posting a couple of floor plan ideas today. Harsh criticism is encouraged  
The more you guys critique, the better the cage will be!


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

No, you weren't offensive, but I felt like I was being bossing so said sorry. I just hate to see people waste money and considering I've done 3 home built cages I know the money sink hole it becomes. I gave up and got a FN cage instead! I don't need to take it and hose it, but if I did it's on wheels. It's soooo easy to clean and to keep clean and it's big enough that I gave up on my dream of a nice non cage looking cage.


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## Marysmuse (Apr 28, 2008)

Loki-

Another idea for materials is 1"x1/2" coated stiff wire. No wood, no worries about urine soaking in and stinking, and very easy to take out, scrub down and clean. You can design better doors, I'm sure, and larger, for rats. This is my glider cage, hubby built it years ago:










Hope this helps with the inspiration. 

Rejoicing in the day,
-Mary


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## ScootersPet (Sep 4, 2007)

I too have a homemade cage, for gliders lol, mine is made of PVC piping, covered with not stiff enough to stand alone home depot wire lol (understand that?)... It's 30x16x60. It is super light and easy to clean!! It has a drop in style pan made of aluminum sheeting. They are easy, and you can customize them anyway you want, would be a great rattie cage with more ramps and levels, maybe a few full floor levels.. lol....ok here is a picture.


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