# Harlan vs Oxbow. Best Lab Block?



## Vegn (Jan 2, 2014)

What is the best lab block to feed? It seems a lot of people like Harlan, but how? The ingredients seem rubbish to me unless you looks at the 8604 (I think, maybe it's the 8640) that has soybean first instead of wheat but even that doesn't seem that good. Not to mention the morals behind it. (Yes I realize that animal testing is necessary sometimes but a large chunk of it (mostly the cosmetic industry) is not needed, and furthermore, not even required by law.) And then, in lab trials the animals are killed at the end of the study so it seems like the food wouldn't be designed for longevity really, just to reduce variables and keep them alive, not let them thrive. At the same time though, Oxbow is really expensive at $10-$15 for 3 lb. and I have 5 rats. Right now they are eating a monkey chow. It was what as available at the time. I was thinking of using the Zupreem Bird Pellets, probably the fruit because it's cheaper than the nut or veggie and I can get it in the bulk bin. Corn is the first ingredient and I'm confused because I read a lot about ho fatty corn is but the fat and protein is the same as Oxbow. And last time I got Oxbow a few months ago, the rats refused to eat it but I still made them go through the bag. 
I have one female PEW who looks fat but she doesn't feel it, she's firm. I've tried a lot for her and she just won't lose weight. I got her at PetCo and I'm thinking she might have a Zucker gene because none of the others are fat. One is a bit chubby but not by much at all.

What would be the best lab block to use? Is the Zupreem ok to use? I know it has a fairly large amount of sugar though. I can get Harlan and put aside my ideals if it's what's best for the rats but I don't see how it is best. If I tried Oxbow again and it worked, I would probably get the 20lb bag. I found Harlan on Amazon through the distributor and you can get it in 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, and 33lb bags. I'd probably get 10lb at a time. I'd rather use Oxbow, it just seems better all around. I also like how the pieces are small enough to scatter feed somewhat. But, how do I get the rats to take to it? Also Zupreem is something the rats love and isn't too expensive. About 40c cheaper per pound from the Oxbow in the 3lb bags. What should I get and why? I like to know why something's better so I can use it in the future


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## Pandorascaisse (Mar 12, 2014)

I don't like Harlan. I'll say it outright. I find most of their formulas have way, way too much protein and their website doesn't even list the actual ingredients in the blocks (for most formulas) - just their overall nutritional content (if it's there, I apologize, but I can't find it). Only two of their formulas are under 19% protein - and they're at 18%, compared to Oxbow's 15%. Maybe their website just doesn't list all the formulas, but that's just what I found. 

I did however find one formula's datasheet. 2018. Ground corn isn't the first ingredient - but it's pretty darn close. Oxbow Regal Rat doesn't even include corn at all. Corn is a filler, junky, and there's a reason that corn isn't even a regular snack most people feed their rats. It's high in things that are just not good. 

Another problem is that it doesn't list ANY protein sources that come from animal-based products. This is a problem. As we all know, rats are omnivores, not herbivores. They can subsist off of simple grains, of course, but why would you do that?

Now, this is only one formula vs. Oxbow, but many, many of their products are labeled as "mouse/rat" - mice have different nutritional needs than rats. Lab blocks are created for lab mice, in my opinion, and they are created just to keep them healthy and alive enough for tests. 

Now, I don't know about you, but I like to give my rats variety. I like to be able to give them chicken bones with a bit of meat, or little bits of ham or sausage left over from my meals. And, with Oxbow, I have full ability to give little treats now and then without worrying myself whether they're getting too much protein. 

My rats hated lab blocks - and they were even on the "junkier" ones before that many rats are considered to "love". But they can't get enough of oxbow. 

It can be found VERY cheap here: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=16965 at $9 for 3 pounds. 20 pounds is $36. If you're willing to order online, it might be worth looking at.


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## anawelch (Sep 25, 2013)

I use harlan teklad. I get it for a good price from an awesome seller on ebay. I use it because its cheap and I can choose which formula they should be on. My boys have been on it since they were little babies and they have very healthy/shiny coats, lots of energy (or as much as a lazy male rat can have), have never had diarrhea or bladder problems and they absolutely love it. They are only a year old so I cant talk about longevity but I've never had any health related problems with them in the whole year I've had them. But I have heard some good things about oxbow too.


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## Vegn (Jan 2, 2014)

I was looking at the Harlan website at some of the data sheets and there's something like 0.1% (I think) Ethoxyquin as an "Antioxidant"  I think I'll try Oxbow again. If they won't eat it should I just not feed them anything else until they eat it? Or should you do something like soak the food until it's mushy and mix it with baby food or applesauce so they get used to the taste?


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## ratbasket (Apr 26, 2014)

I just switched over to Oxbow and my girls are over the moon about it! I started out by giving it to them as treats for a couple days, so when they found it in their food bowl they were very happy


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## Pandorascaisse (Mar 12, 2014)

Trust me, Vegn, your ratties will eat it.  I know people who said that their rats hated it years ago when they tried it... but as far as I know, Oxbow did a huge overhaul of the formula... and everyone I've heard talk about it (switching over now) has only the problem of their ratties' want for it seeming insatiable! 

Also, seriously? About the ethoxyquin, I mean.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Use oxbow. You can buy in bulk that will last three months plus. It's better. Healthier. HT/NTE was bad IMO.


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## Vegn (Jan 2, 2014)

I just tried it with them a month or two ago. But they had just tried some tasty, fruity, sugary Zupreem in fruit shapes that are fun to hold and play with so they probably weren't too happy about the switch XD I'll try a 3lb bag again sometime this week and if they like it, I'll get the 20lb bag and freeze most of it. 

And I double checked, it's .01 g per kg in the custom diets as an antioxidant. I feel like if they add it into custom diets, it'd be in the normal ones too though.


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## Tesumph (Aug 12, 2014)

I feed Harlan teklad 14% protein. What's so bad about it? I thought it was supposedly the best. My rats can't get enough.


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## Pandorascaisse (Mar 12, 2014)

Even in the 14%, the first five ingredients are actually only 3 ingredients. Two of the top five ingredients are corn. There is no meat-based animal protein. 

Oxbow has both plant and animal-based proteins. The first 5 ingredients are 4 ingredients (wheat repeated twice) with NO CORN. The reason seed mixes aren't good is because they're mostly corn and sunflower seeds - both of which should not be part of a rats' regular diet. 

Looking at 14%'s ingredients... it lists 4.7% ash. Why does a rat need to be eating ash? Maybe it provides some sort of nutrients in it that I'm unaware of, but I don't think I'd let my rat eat ashes. Unless they mean ash as in wood... which really isn't any better imo.


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## anawelch (Sep 25, 2013)

I could be wrong but I think certain kinds of ash have nutrious (sorry im a terrible speller) properties. I learned something about this in school one time but I can't remember if it was ash or not.


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## anawelch (Sep 25, 2013)

I just went and looked it up and found this:


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## anawelch (Sep 25, 2013)

This is on the livestrong website:


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## Pandorascaisse (Mar 12, 2014)

But what is the particular ash in Harlan Teklad? That's what concerns me ;A; 
Basically it's "it can be anything - even something bad!" and I've heard a lot of people say harlan just crumbles when they've been left in the cage, to dust. I don't know... I prefer to feed a tiny-pelleted food my rats will eat quickly and won't hang around for ages in the cage rather than giant lab blocks they have to sit around all day gnawing on (though, I realize this can be good for their teeth).


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

I've never tried Harlan, but if I was a rat I would choose Oxbow as it looks more appealing than those big blocks, and actually tastes really good. This might be gross, but I snack on Oxbow. I really like the taste and texture, and so do my rats. Plus the ingredients are really good (as others have said)


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## Vegn (Jan 2, 2014)

I wouldn't eat Oxbow myself, but that's because I don't like fish, I realize you can't taste it but it's a mental thing XD I do enjoy my bird's food though. The main ingredient is corn but it's "apple flavored" so it is like a sweet tortilla chip. I think that for the most part, if you wouldn't eat a pet's food because you don't want to get sick, they shouldn't really be eating it either. 

That's my main issue with Harlan, how much corn and wheat there is. Also I know for cats with bladder issues, lower ash tends to be better. I don't know if the same holds true for rats.


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## Zabora (Jun 8, 2014)

Ok this has nothing to do with this topic and well everything but man...the things you learn in a day...  I didnt know half this stuff lol...as for eating it well I am allergic to shell fish and I take no chances with anything so eating it is not gonna happen with me.


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## Vegn (Jan 2, 2014)

Forgot about allergies when it comes to health reasons XD


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## deedeeiam (Apr 8, 2014)

Ash isn't "ash" at all. Ash is calculated by burning the food and examining what's left and comparing it to whole amount of food to get a number. So, all that 'ash' on a label means, is that IF you burn the food as much as possible, you will have "leftovers" and that's a "guarantee" of the food. It doesn't mean that there IS "burned stuff" in the food...just that there is a guaranteed ash statistic of X. Almost all animal food has an ash amount of some sort because bone does not burn all the way.


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## Vegn (Jan 2, 2014)

I picked up Oxbow and 4 of them ate 1-2 pieces, one ignored it. They got only Oxbow tonight. Hope thy like it


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## PixieRat (Sep 1, 2014)

I like oxbow because big blocks make a mess all over my pretty fleece when they eat them


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## Cyrix (May 2, 2014)

Vegn said:


> I was looking at the Harlan website at some of the data sheets and there's something like 0.1% (I think) Ethoxyquin as an "Antioxidant"  I think I'll try Oxbow again. If they won't eat it should I just not feed them anything else until they eat it? Or should you do something like soak the food until it's mushy and mix it with baby food or applesauce so they get used to the taste?


They'll definitely like it. Our rats love it and hoarde it just like any treat. They even used to make Oxbow stashes and steal from each other. As far as soaking it, earlier Nibbles jumped in the shower where I had just rinsed down the cage and wolfed down some soggy oxbow that had gotten rinsed out of the cage. It was like mush but he apparently loved it. So if they are resistant to it dry (hard to imagine) you might try just soaking it in water.


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## Vegn (Jan 2, 2014)

They seem to like it so far. Hope it holds up. They got a medium size pumpkin "pie pumpkin" size. Not one of those baby baby ones and it's going back and forth between cages. They love it. We also put one outside for the squirrels. Snozz likes wrestling with the pumpkin and they all like the stem for some odd reason. They're going to have fat pumpkin bellies tonight so I don't know how much Oxbow they ill eat XD


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