# Yes...Big surprise today...



## meekosan (Dec 23, 2011)

Came home and cleaned cage to find 8 babies in the girls' hut. Talk about OMFG! I am getting ready to go to the store, but if anyone is around to suggest what I need to buy NOW, please, help?!

As precaution, I removed Ziva (auntie!) to a smaller cage because I didn't want to move Abby and her babies too much (really really needed to clean the cage and handled them as little as possible but she appears to be okay right now - she's letting them nurse at the moment).

I know I have to get a second water bottle for Ziva's smaller home. But - what else?! Extra vitamins in Abby's water? Fresh food everyday...other than that I am at a complete loss...I have only ever dealt with kittens births before.

If there is anyone around for SMSing, I am more than willing to exchange my cell number to text (via PM only) or via Instant Messenger...

I am 99% positive my answers are in other threads but I really do not have the time or the concentration to read through them all because I hadn't expected this AT ALL. I mean we got 2 girls!


----------



## meekosan (Dec 23, 2011)




----------



## Tibbs87 (Dec 25, 2011)

This thread has some information on how to care for the litter. I'm sorry I can't be of more help, but I hope that (at least) points you in the right direction. Best of luck to you, I would certainly be shocked if I came home to a litter!! I'll see what else I can find...


----------



## meekosan (Dec 23, 2011)

Tibbs87 said:


> This thread has some information on how to care for the litter. I'm sorry I can't be of more help, but I hope that (at least) points you in the right direction. Best of luck to you, I would certainly be shocked if I came home to a litter!! I'll see what else I can find...


Thanks  While I was at the pet store I was looking through all the Rat books they have as well as what I could get on my phone's web browser before the battery died. 

I presently have her set up in a 20g long tank with screened lid (and a heavy book to keep it from being pushed open cuz they were sold out on clamps). The water bottle is REALLY small so that will have to be checked like 4 times a day, but that's no problem. Plenty of people around the house to check on them.

After everything tonight, I'm just POOPED. 

Oh one other question for everyone. I separated Abby and Ziva as soon as I noticed the babies, is that alright? Would Ziva have harmed the pups?


----------



## CarolineRose (Nov 18, 2011)

Female rats are spectacular mothers and she should take of everything by herself. I've read through the thread linked above and I thought I'd break down the highlights for you.

1. Try not to touch the babies for at least 2 days.
2. The mother will need extra protein like yogurt, nuts, seeds, soy, eggs, etc.
3. The mother will need her exercise but don't allow her to be away from the babies for more than half an hour.
4. 20 gal aquariums are recommended for nursing mothers to prevent the babies from escaping and falling through the bars or off a level.

They also sell special food for nursing and pregnant rats and baby rats that is higher in protein and fat. The best one I know of is Harlan Teklad 8604 they sell it at the Mainely Rat Rescue . The babies should begin the ween and eat solid food at 4 weeks. Good luck!


----------



## A.ngelF.eathers (Jul 6, 2011)

COZY CUP.
Wow, those are awfully large kittens o.o


----------



## meekosan (Dec 23, 2011)

A.ngelF.eathers said:


> COZY CUP.
> Wow, those are awfully large kittens o.o


I'm positive they are a couple days old. Believe me, there were NOT there last week. I been changing the cage weekly since I got the girls.


----------



## CarolineRose (Nov 18, 2011)

Based on the distinct markings I'd say they are at least 4 days possibly 5 or 6. You must have one sly rat to hide them for so long! The urine markings on the fleece is also a good indicator that they've been there for a while.

Another tip I thought I'd throw in is to weigh the mother every day at the same time to make sure she isn't losing too much weight. A little weight is normal but more is a sign that she isn't getting enough protein. The babies should be fine regardless as rats are such good mothers they will let themselves die before they will deny the babies milk.


----------



## meekosan (Dec 23, 2011)

CarolineRose said:


> Based on the distinct markings I'd say they are at least 4 days possibly 5 or 6. You must have one sly rat to hide them for so long! The urine markings on the fleece is also a good indicator that they've been there for a while.
> 
> Another tip I thought I'd throw in is to weigh the mother every day at the same time to make sure she isn't losing too much weight. A little weight is normal but more is a sign that she isn't getting enough protein. The babies should be fine regardless as rats are such good mothers they will let themselves die before they will deny the babies milk.


So she popped them out quite literally right after I cleaned the cage last week possibly? Oh joy. Nearly 1 week less than I thought I had to figure out what to do. Whatever the case, I'm in it good or bad.


----------



## A.ngelF.eathers (Jul 6, 2011)

That's highly likely. Like Caroline said, they're markings are VERY obvious, so they've been there for a while xD
Mamma knows what she's doing. Goes to show how good o' mothers they are, as she's kept them healthy and quiet for a while. 

In a semi-related story, I was an aide for a teacher a few years ago. She has lots of pets in the room, including four chinchillas at the time. She had a mother and daughter, and what she THOUGHT was a father and son. I walked in one day while the class was free of students, looked in the dust bath and said "Ohhh, how precious. Where'd you get the baby?" She replied with "Excuse me? What baby?" She had no idea this chinchilla was pregnant at all, and nobody knew when the baby was born or how long he'd been there.

Tricky little buggers.


----------



## 1a1a (May 6, 2011)

If you don't have an aquarium handy, and don't mind a bit of DIY (and don't want to spend much on housing), you could make a temporary home out of a tub http://australianratforum.com/forum...make-a-tub-style-cage-)&highlight=making+tubs (probably be other guides around if you look).

Off the top of my head, give mum some extra protein, egg is good.


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

They do look to be older, and you should hold them every day from now on, to make sure they are tame. Give mom lots of high protein food and she should do fine. You will want to separate genders at 5 weeks. The eyes should open at two weeks (I'm pretty sure..), so that should be helpful when it comes to determining age. 

If you would still like someone to text/ask questions to, just PM me, and I would be happy to help as much as I can. They are lovely bubs and it seems like you're doing a great job.


----------



## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

They look about nine days old in those pictures. Not that I'm so experienced but I went and looked in the Rat Guide, http://ratguide.com/breeding/baby_development/birth_to_weaning.php.

The pups look wonderful, so obviously Abby is doing a great job caring for them. I wonder how she managed to keep them from eeping and drawing your attention sooner?

Anyway, good luck and keep us posted. I love seeing pics of how babies grow and develop. <he said, hinting subtly>


----------



## meekosan (Dec 23, 2011)

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


























Here are some pictures from today's handling (and tank cleaning). After reading posts that I could find and browsing rat books at the pet store, my uncle helped me out by paying for the supplies needed (tank, new water bottle that was a waste of money as it leaked out the first night so I resulted to using a curved ceramic bowl that she can't tip).

I been giving her yogurt (Grandma has been complaining cuz I won't buy YoPlait brand for her but did for the rat!) and gave her a mushed hard boiled egg this morning. SHE LOVES THE EGG. Abby has been really good. She is very watchful over them but lets me check on them each morning and night to assure everyone is present and accounted for. 

We started that yesterday morning because it's been hard time this weekend for the family. We lost one of our cats in a freak accident (he fell off a hutch in the hallway and appeared to break his neck). So now, every morning/night Grandma asks if they are alive (her memory is starting to slip) so we are making it a habit to count and check each one now.


----------



## CarrieD (Nov 20, 2011)

OMG that very first picture... <thud>


----------



## meekosan (Dec 23, 2011)

BigBen said:


> They look about nine days old in those pictures. Not that I'm so experienced but I went and looked in the Rat Guide, http://ratguide.com/breeding/baby_development/birth_to_weaning.php.
> 
> The pups look wonderful, so obviously Abby is doing a great job caring for them. I wonder how she managed to keep them from eeping and drawing your attention sooner?
> 
> Anyway, good luck and keep us posted. I love seeing pics of how babies grow and develop. <he said, hinting subtly>


Posted some pictures from today  

I've been trying to think of when it could have been. If it were before last Sunday, it could be possible because I know I changed the cage that week, just don't remember if it was at the beginning of the week or the end of the week. 

I have no clue either! I heard squeeking before I went in to change the cage that first night I found them, but didn't think anything of it because it's been so cold by me and I live by railroad tracks and a river so we always get mice in the house during the winter. But she been doing good.

When we were taking the pictures today, Abby came over to take the one I was holding at one point and ran away with it on the bed before trying to climb up my arms with it. It was hilariously adorable. I managed to separate her for the short time to finish the pictures and clean the cage up before putting them back in together.

She's been very good with them and me going into the cage to check on her food/water status and the babies. I gave up on a water bottle before. When they start exploring more, I'll try to get the bottle back in, but for now I have a curved bowl for her.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Actually if mom is not a super nervous girl, i handle my babies the day after birth, while mom is out running and getting a break. As for protein you can use any quallity lab block and just supplement with sources of protein like egg, fish or lean chicken. These babies look about 4 days old to me so they would be 7 days old now. 

As for handling the pups, gently handle each one, pulling on tails, paws, flip the baby on its back, stroke the entire baby, even the ears, pretend to check the teeth (when they are older you will be able to more) anything you can think of that an adult rat might have done to them when they are older. The more they are handled/socialized the more likely you will end up with confident, happy babies which ends up in happy. confident adults who are more likely to stay in their home then be rehomed or dumped into rescue or shelters.

I use small cages with deep bases and small bar spacing for my rescue moms. Let Mom run with her former cagemate(s) twice a day for 1/2 an hour each time, it can be more later on when the babies are older. When the babies are this young remember that they cannot regulate their own temperature as they don't have a coat yet (that comes in about 8-9 days) with the eyes opening soon after.


----------



## RatMama13 (Aug 20, 2011)

I remember when my room mate took my new female with her over a short break we had from school. I walked in the house and she pointed out the obvious belly...and two days later out came 17 babies!!! Anywho, I can answer questions and such if you want to pm me for my number  LOTS of experience with babies at school


----------



## RatMama13 (Aug 20, 2011)

oh and those are beautifully marked babies!!!! They will be so beautiful all growded up


----------



## meekosan (Dec 23, 2011)

RatMama13 said:


> oh and those are beautifully marked babies!!!! They will be so beautiful all growded up


OMG YES! Each unique enough to tell apart too! Which I love. I need to make a list describing them so that I can note which are male/female when I can start telling their sexes apart.


----------



## Razzbery (Jan 5, 2012)

OMG! The first grey one is sooooo cute. And the other grey one. And the blonde ones. And the black 4.


----------



## meekosan (Dec 23, 2011)

Razzbery said:


> OMG! The first grey one is sooooo cute. And the other grey one. And the blonde ones. And the black 4.


LOL yeah. One of them, I can't remember which, was moving pretty well when my grandmother asked to hold one. I think it was a tan one I took out, tan or grey. My brain doesn't want to work right now. It moved along my arm, using its hind legs to push it along better than I thought it could at that point.


----------



## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

CarrieD said:


> OMG that very first picture... <thud>


+1001, except all of the pics.



meekosan said:


> . . . I've been trying to think of when it could have been. . . .





lilspaz68 said:


> . . . These babies look about 4 days old to me so they would be 7 days old now. . . .


Well Lilspaz is the expert, I am just a tyro. I defer to her judgment.

And the story of Abby running up your arm with a pup in her mouth had me ROTFL.


----------



## meekosan (Dec 23, 2011)

Here is a link to an album where I uploaded all the photos of the rats that I could find on my computer at the present time. Squee away!

http://imgur.com/a/Q73Qd


----------



## A.ngelF.eathers (Jul 6, 2011)

I loveeee the little beige capped ones (from what I can tell) I'm a sucker for beige cappeds/hoodeds


----------



## Razzbery (Jan 5, 2012)

You dont happen to live in florida do you?


----------



## meekosan (Dec 23, 2011)

Razzbery said:


> You dont happen to live in florida do you?


Sadly no. I am in NJ. Why? Are you interested? ;-)Of course I know I can't mail them. I just wish it was easier to find homes here.


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

OMG cute. -squee-

They have lovely markings, too!


----------



## hellostevie (Dec 26, 2011)

Those babies are gorgeous! 
I so wish I could take one, sadly you live across the country 
Good luck with them! Hope to see more pictures as they grow!


----------



## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

Ziva is absolutely gorgeous--what is she, a beige self? beige ticked?

And the babies . . . ah, if only I had room for more ratties! <sob!>


----------



## Razzbery (Jan 5, 2012)

Darn it, i cant ratnap them


----------



## meekosan (Dec 23, 2011)

BigBen said:


> Ziva is absolutely gorgeous--what is she, a beige self? beige ticked?
> 
> And the babies . . . ah, if only I had room for more ratties! <sob!>


I'm not sure. She's beige with the white belly and feet. Almost like a berkshire but she doesn't have the white tip on the tail. I know she is gorgeous! She's also a spunky one but I think she may be light sensitive because I noticed whenever I take her into one of the other rooms that are significantly brighter, she burrows into my arm or under my shirt right away. But in the living room and my bedroom where it's only lamps and stuff, she's fine, hanging out on my shoulders or top of my head.


----------



## teri (Jul 18, 2011)

A great way to age rat babies is that they open their eyes at 14 to 15 days. How are the babies and momma doing?


----------



## meekosan (Dec 23, 2011)

teri said:


> A great way to age rat babies is that they open their eyes at 14 to 15 days. How are the babies and momma doing?


They're good. 3 boys are going to their new home this weekend.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

meekosan said:


> They're good. 3 boys are going to their new home this weekend.


Hmmm okay say they were born Jan. 1st, this Saturday will be 28th making them only 27 days old, not even 4 weeks of age. It really IS too soon to let babies leave their mom. Boys have to be separated out by 5 weeks or soon after, and even though they may not nurse at 4 weeks, they are learning a lot of invaluable things from each other and especially from their mom on how to be a rat and in a group. Babies removed too young, often have more health and psychological issues. I leave boys in with mom until 5 weeks, then separate them all out together. I don't normally adopt out my rescue babies until 6 weeks myself.

The other thing no one has mentioned is you have a lot of high-white markings in your litter. Which *could* lead to incidents of Megacolon. You are going to need to be aware of the symptoms to be able to recognize it and save any wee ones from suffering this genetic condition. You also have to be aware of late-onset megacolon. I had 2 high-white boys here from different backgrounds that practically looked identical. One had to be put to sleep at 4 months of age due to late-onset MC, and the other is happy healthly 14 month old boy.


----------



## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

Please keep the babies with mom until Feb. in the least  The last week really is crucial.


----------



## meekosan (Dec 23, 2011)

I'll see if I can put off the pick up by a week. I have to seriously get Abby to the vet however because I'm afraid the injury to her tail, and now her foot that I found last night when I got home may get infected.


----------

