# Friskiness



## Clairebert (Apr 21, 2008)

*Friskiness*

My two baby rats are almost 4 months old, if I'm counting correctly. 
Kinsey, the smallest of the two baby rats, is acting a bit weird lately. 
Now I know its normal for male or female rats to get frisky sometimes...but this guy is particularly frisky. 
When he and his brother are outside of their cage...he'll chase after his brother and climb on his back and thrust against him, this chasing and climbing can sometimes last 5-10 minutes. Garnet, after a while, gets really annoyed and a fight will usually start (but not a mean-serious one). 

How long do I expect this behaviour to last? I don't see my older ones doing it (there about a year old now), and its really only Kinsey who does it.

Is he just...you know..."frisky", or is it him trying to display dominance? I'm still having a hard time telling who's the dominant one between the two. I've noticed that Kinsey will sometimes chase after Garnet and catch him by the tail, which usually makes Garnet cry out. Should I worry that Kinsey is becoming an aggressive rat? Should I consider neuteuring him?


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## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: Friskiness*

Sounds like they are quite equal in rank, which seems to cause the most problems in same sex animals as they are not able to work out their status.
I would neuter the least dominant one to make him even less dominant and thus increase the rank difference so their roles are more clear. At least that works in dogs.


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

*Re: Friskiness*

I wouldn't consider neutering either rat at the moment. You said the fighting is not serious, so I'm asssuming no blood? They're still young and this will probably pass. If the problem gets more serious you may then want to look into neutering.


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## Clairebert (Apr 21, 2008)

*Re: Friskiness*

No, the fighting is never serious. I won't be considering neutering until they're a bit older. I'm going to wait and see who ends up being the dominant rat, I'm quite curious to see. Kinsey never really hurts his brother, I think he just wants to play, I just feel bad for Garnet who seems to get frustrated haha.


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## Dumbo_Queen (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Friskiness*

I'm having this problem with my four boys at the moment, but their fighting is serious so there all getting nurtured asap! Although they're older than your two boys, they started off the same way and now its bad, with all four recieving injuries, so it may be wise to get them done now to prevent the stress and upset in the future for both you and your rats. This is the situation dosen't drimatically change within the nest week or so!!!!


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

*Re: Friskiness*

_If_ neutering did become necessary you would probably just need to neuter the dominant one. However, I still wouldn't consider neutering at this point and I wouldn't go ahead with it just as a precaution if they were my rats. Any operation carries a risk - I wouldn't have had my Spike neutered if it wasn't for the testicular tumor. Sods law that the tumor didn't cause any discomfort but the post-neuter abscesses did.

How are they getting on?


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## TedBundy (Feb 28, 2009)

*Re: Friskiness*

Sounds that they are half and half. and maybe need something to push one of them into dominance.
I dunno leave 1 of them in the cage (the bigger 1) for an hour without his mate and he will scent it out and he might be dominant from now on.


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## HappyMooCow (Jan 10, 2009)

*Re: Friskiness*



begoodtoanimals said:


> Sounds like they are quite equal in rank, which seems to cause the most problems in same sex animals as they are not able to work out their status.
> I would neuter the least dominant one to make him even less dominant and thus increase the rank difference so their roles are more clear. At least that works in dogs.


actually that dont work in dogs cause it is more and more proven that there is no heiraki in between them.
There can be horomnal triggered aggression where neutering help, but dominance no. 

Dominance in dog packs were based in the 70ties on put together wolf pack and what they displayed.
I think that was the skete monks starting that, and they have even gone back on their own study saying they have been wrong.

If you want to learn more about it read the book dominance fact or fiction by Barry Eaton it will give you an AHA experience. 
(my sidework is rehabbing extremely aggressive dogs so I truly have to work with these theories, if I had used any dominance based training I would have been bit a few hundred times, fact is I have NEVER been bit, last dog was a 130 lbs rottweiler)

sorry for taking it off topic..


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## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: Friskiness*

I wrote this from my own experience so it worked for me and for others where thy did this.
The dominance thing doesn't work between humans and dogs but between dogs it is pretty prevalent in MHU.


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## HappyMooCow (Jan 10, 2009)

*Re: Friskiness*

It's not really dominance, if one dog has the couch he has it for the moment, that dont mean he's dominant and when the other dog gets it dont mean he's dominant. A beta actually offers a submissive behavior, it's not demanded, and a truly dominant dog that is a dog the other look up to is the a dog who NEVER fights, he/she dont need to.. and that is not really a dominant dog as in dominant but a very self secure dog. a dog that fights is not dominant hence neutering has nothing to do with it but either genetic aggression/learned aggression/poor socialisation etc.. 

If you cut of resources you might see a similar behavior in who's what, ie starve the dogs, but as long as resources are flowing this is rarely a problem. There is a lot of new research on it out there, Im studying now to go back to college to take the behavioral course and get my final degree in it. And becominga veterany behaviorist..


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## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: Friskiness*

I know this is now off topic but it is so interesting. I know that dominance is depending on who you have in front of you. Being on the couch is not dominance, I know, it's making use of an opportunity. The most dominant dog (not a fighter but a good and fair leader) wlil not challenge the others for the best spot, just as they won't do that to him.
What I was referring to is if two equally or kinda equally ranked males cannot figure out their hierarchy, it will help bring some clarity by neutering the one who is the lowest in rank to make the difference more prevalent.


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