# color combos????



## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

One of my rats has a really cool black and white color patern and I was wanting to breed her to see if I might get more cool paterns but I don't know who I shuld breed her with. Should it be another black and white or maybe a blue... Heck maybe a dumbo ear'd... What should I do... :?


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

Hey, just have fun and see what happens. I've put a blue & black together, theres no colors yet but if your willing to wait a few days i can tell you what comes out. I know we can't predict the same if you breed but maybe it will give u an idea? I've noticed with my mice that if you mate and Black & white with another multi colored you do get some nice coloring. I've gotten gold & white and some Greys! i'm still waiting for thr day i get a gold & black!! lol


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Sounds good let me know your results.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

OK i don't have colors yet but so fare it looks like i've gotten selfs, capped, and mis matched hooded. I'll inform you of colors as soon as i see fuzzys! I'll attach a pic of the colors as well as soon as i get some.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Actually, you can pretty accurately predict what colors/markings you'll get when you breed if you were breeding ethically and knew anything about genetics.

I don't understand any of you. How is there no one on this forum that knows about proper breeding?


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## Darksong17 (Feb 11, 2007)

I agree with night =(

All the responsible breeders I know know almost exactly what colors, markings, ear types, and coat types they expect to come out of each breeding because they know their genetics.


*Edit:* In fact if you DON'T know you could end up with a very sick litter. Some rats should NOT be bred. Does anyone here even know about high whites and megacolon? =(


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Breeding petstore rats for a pretty colour is one of the biggest no-no's of all!

You have unknown genetics, you could have some horrible health problems down the line...they could all die young with cancer, be extremely myco prone etc, etc. You may have bred high-white carriers and some of your litter could contract MC and die horrible painful deaths. You could have a pair of sweet parents and end up with highly aggressive babies. Your babies could've turned out to be all black berks since that is a dominant colour gene.

There are too many perfectly fine homeless rats out there for you to be creating more. If you want to breed properly, start reading up on genetics and get yourself a mentor amongst the breeders.


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

Sky14 said:


> What should I do... :?


you shouldn't do ANYTHING.

Unexperienced rat breding is a MAJOR mistake. For the benefit of the possible pups--and your wallet-- DO NOT BREED.


There are many different reasons I could give you for not breeding. Just request and I'll happily share them.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

I can't believe how rude people are on this forum, my mother knows all about our rats and mice genetics and is slowly teaching me. My mother worked out one of our mother rats genetics out with our vet and we were meant to get ****. Capped and we ended up with 13 little black selfs!! we are not god we can get close to what we think we will end up with but we never be 100% correct. I wish people would stop being so rude, I understand that a lot of horrible things can happen but the main reason i didn't go into genetics at this very time was because (as everyone pointed out) not everyone knows about genetics. I would have been more than willing to go over Genetics with Sky14 i didn't want to just ram her face into the ground for having an idea.  I personally like the saying "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all"


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

No one was rude here. They simply disagreed and stated why.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

Night said:


> I don't understand any of you. How is there no one on this forum that knows about proper breeding?


You basically called everyone on this forum stupid? You don't think thats rude??


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

Night said:


> I don't understand any of you. How is there no one on this forum that knows about proper breeding?



Night, this came off as extremely snobbish, to me.

You'd be suprised about how many people are ignorant to the safe techniques and down right technicals to breeding. But the important thing is they posted here to LEARN. They are not stupid, they are just without knowledge. you should congratulate them for taking the step to conisder and talk with others before they bred. That's a smart thing to do. They can learn a lot more with helpful advice of others.

Many, many, MANY people will just completely object to hobby breeding. But it's not a bad thing* as long as the breeder is educated on the subject*.



I must make myself clear on my use of ignorance. Ignorance is the refusal or LACK of learning. It's not necessarily a derogatory term, so please don't take that as me being mean.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

She wasn't posting asking IF she should breed, she was asking who she should breed her rat with. It honestly didn't seem like she wanted to learn that breeding rats without thinking was a bad thing.

Hobby breeding is fine, as long as you're a registered, accredited breeder.


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

Night said:


> She wasn't posting asking IF she should breed, she was asking who she should breed her rat with. It honestly didn't seem like she wanted to learn that breeding rats without thinking was a bad thing.
> 
> Hobby breeding is fine, as long as you're a registered, accredited breeder.


That doesn't matter, she took the step to learn. Be what she wants to learn is what she ends up learning or not, that's a good step for anyone. Taking the initative to gain knowledge and become better.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

ALL OF YOU (exept Nazarath) MAKE YOUR OWN POST if you want to debate. I would like some POSITIVE info and I have knowledge of my babys background so STOP argueing and give me your sugjestions in a POLITE SNOB FREE way OK!!!! I have bred at lest 7 liters and I got only ONE runt that got sick from being BULLIED AWAY from the mom and food. So I have some knowlege and came here asking for more NOT for your critasisim and put downs!!!!!


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Nazarath I would be glade to have YOU explain the genetics


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

I'll give you a PM and tell you what i've learn from my mother, I have some online Ped's i can show you .


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## Rodere (Feb 26, 2007)

The fact of the matter being, whether you are trying to learn or not, before thinking of what markings and colors you should get, you should have a rat (or even yet a pair of rats!) with at least a 4 generation pedigree. The parents, the grand parents, the great grandparents, and the great great grandparents of both sides! And it should be at least 90% complete, with colors, markings, and origins documented. And it would even be better to have dates of birth and death, reason for death, any health issues, etc. 

Before contemplating color, you should be thinking about whether or not you should even breed at all! Can you afford possible vet care, are you willing to risk loosing the female to complications, do you have any knowledge of raising an orphaned litter, do you have proper fascilities to house them and keep them from breeding with each other, are there any undesirable personalty traits in the male or the female that could be carried onto the babies, what does the male carry, what does the female carry, what traits could or will they pass on? Until you can answer all of those questions, you shouldn't breed.

"Wow, just breed and see what you get!" That isn't the right way to do it at all. There is more to it than just sticking two animals together and seeing what pops out. You should have a good understanding of genetics before ever even attempting to breed. You should know what genes and combinations of genes can produce, as far as color and markings, but you should be mostly thinking about what kind of personality and health the kittens will have. What they look like doesn't matter, it's how good a pet they will make a person that counts!


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## Rodere (Feb 26, 2007)

And you don't need to have anyone explain genetics to you. All it takes is a simple google search and a look at good rat sites that talk about genetics. Learning genetics second hand isn't a very good way to do it. You don't know if that person knows hide nor hair of what they are talking about. Why not get it from the best source possible?

**Added**
Also, just because your female has a cool 'pattern' with her markings doesn't mean a single baby will come out that way. And it doesn't make her a better rat to breed. Nor does it mean she'll produce better kittens.

She could produce anything from a bunch of selfs, to hoodeds, etc. You never know unless you know her genetic history, the genetic history of the male, And how those genetics will combine and create other markings.


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## Rodere (Feb 26, 2007)

And someone who cannot afford vet care for one rat who is having eye problems should not be breeding. You are setting yourself up for a lot of stress and heartache if you care about the animals and whether or not they are in pain.

How would you feel if your female had complications and needed a c-section and you couldn't afford it? She would almost certainly die, either from shock or other problems. You'd have inadvertantly killed her by breeding her purposefully. Harsh, but true.. Are you really sure you want to risk that happening?


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

I allready know just about everything you wrote.

...and I have lost one rat 6 years ago
when she was impregnated by a wild rat....


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## Rodere (Feb 26, 2007)

If you are really interested in raising babies and finding them homes, look into the Ojai situation. There are more than 800 rats, many of whom are pregnant, that will need fostering and homes found for them and the babies. And there are very pretty babies, including some blues, blazes, dumbos, etc.

I'm not trying to sound harsh or mean or anything.. but I know that Califormia is overrun with unwanted rats. More than 2- or 3000 were confiscated from a man last year, and another 40 or so more a couple months later form him again. Unfortunately more than 1000 of them were euthanized because the HS was overpopulated. Now there is someone who has over 800. Not to mention the local rat rescues are at their max. One rescue, who was at the max of 170 rats in their care and in foster homes, has just recently taken in 150 -200 of the Ojai rats. They've had three litters born in as many days and are in desperate need of help. And there are still yet more rats at the residence and yet still more pregnant. That doesn't include the monstrous spay bills, medication costs, general vet bills, nueter bills, etc. Or the gas to drive the 400 or so miles to get there.

If you really want to raise babies, look into that. At least they'll have somewhere to go if you decide you can't handle it.. And you'll know you are rescuing them instead of creating more.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

...Interesting. I knew there were lots of rats in this area but that's a bit more than I thought. Is there a website I can get more info on this subject? Or what?


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## Rodere (Feb 26, 2007)

You can speak to the rescue by looking up their contact information on http://www.weecompanions.com

But I would suggest going to the Humane Society instead, because once they are full, all incoming rats (even the heavily pregnant, young, and healthy), will be euthanized because they don't have room. 

Here is a link to them: http://www.humanesocietyvc.org/

One thing I will stress.. these rats should not be bred, ever! No matter what. Because of the conditions, there are many missing limbs, tails, eyes, toes, ears, some with deformities, etc. They are severely inbred and could carry a host of health problems on to their children. I can direct you to some pretty graphic photos of a pair of brothers were are deformed. They are missing feet and hands and even most of their tails.

Situations like these are why so many of us are so adamant that people not breed unless they are absolutely certain they know what they are doing and can handle it. Because if not, things can get out of control very quickly. Even the most caring of animal lovers can become overwhelmed.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

EEEWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No pics for me I'm not to good about that graphic stuff. But point me to the young and or pregnant girls.

My mom wont allow boys at present. (To smelly)


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## RaTt (Feb 16, 2007)

Yea, these people have good points, it makes me feel bad about my accidental litter, not to be rude or any thing, you really should read up on things and not jump the gun, thats what this part of the forum is for, understanding the dos and don'ts of breeding, if i ever decided to breed, witch im not sure if i will cause i dont think i will have any where to send them, i defantly would be asking better questions then what colors to breed, cause colors are easy to figure out, thats 5 grade science, if you have Xx male and XX female will X is domanite, x is ressesive, if XX is black, and xx is white then if you breed those 2, your are going to get all black rats, its and yea thats a dumbed down simple genetics lesson but its easy to understand ... so for any of you other people who decided to breed ... STOP dont do what i did ... read up on it first, maybe get a hold of a breeder that can help you in your area


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## Rodere (Feb 26, 2007)

Sky, please contact the Humane Society and ask if they have any nursing or pregnant does available. There will be boys in the litter, unless by some awesome stroke of coincidence. Definately ask how many and if the mom is aggressively protective (if she's already had them). Talk to them and ask questions. They could answer them better than I. I know there are some very very beautiful rats out there that people would be happy to have as pets. 

If they don't have any pregnant or nursing, contact Wee Companions and arrange to take on one of theirs if you are elligble for adoption. There is likely to be an application for either place.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Do you know a phone number?

I suck at finding stuff on the web.


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## Rodere (Feb 26, 2007)

I followed the link I posted and found a number. I'm sending it in a PM since most forums don't like phone numbers posted, but if anyone else needs it, let me know.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Thanks!


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## OhBugger. (Apr 6, 2007)

Darksong17 said:


> *Edit:* In fact if you DON'T know you could end up with a very sick litter. Some rats should NOT be bred. Does anyone here even know about high whites and megacolon? =(


yes, magacolon in high whites is pretty sad, and anyone with a high white should be really careful to not breed him/her for the risks. 


I dont think you should breed at all. you shouldn't just breed to see what interesting color combos you can get. be content with the rats you have.


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