# Oops gerbil litter SW Ohio



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

I decided to post this here just in case there is interest.

I got 2 'male' gerbils from a breeder, one of them (naturally) was female but seem to have gotten pregnant while I had her being sitted with a co worker of mine (but would have gotten pregnant anyway since she was with the other male). Now I have a litter of 6 + mom (black self, though she was greyish when I first saw her) that are now 5 days old. The male was separated from her early because I cannot handle 2 litters and she is raising them alone (and doing well). 

Babies are doing fine so far, all I can tell right now is that one is either black/spotted, and the rest are probably going to be some form of agouti. There were 2 males that she was kept with by my (clueless) co worker, 1 was a PEW, the other a nutmeg, so either could have been the father. If I am lucky and they all end up looking pretty different from each other, I will be keeping all of them. However, that doesn't seem likely. At the least, I will be keeping 3 (1 daughter with mom and 2 sons) unless there an extreme sex imbalance. 

So I just wondered if anyone might be interested in taking one with a small rehoming fee. They are still young so it will be a good month yet and we need to see what colors come from this litter.


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

How could a breeder mistake a female for a male? Unless they were given to you too young?

I'm confused.. So you had her with a single male or three males?

Will you be keeping the father and giving his sons as company? 

Babies will be spotted if one of the parents had spotting. Otherwise it won't show up. 
The mother is just a black. Black is a self-bellied color. There is no white bellied black.  If she looks to have a gray hue, then she may be slate if her claws are white and if her eyes glow red in camera flashes or bright light. 

Here is a demonstration of the wine red eye flash of a slate gerbil by my slate boy, Amarte. (With him is my pied gray agouti, Amek)









If the mother is indeed a slate rather than a black, she is a recessive "g" carrier and all of her babies will carry at least one recessive gray gene. If the parents were siblings then its possible the father might have carried at least one recessive "g" and you may then see gray agoutis and slates in the litter. 

Please keep the babies with the mother for at least 7 weeks, if not 8. Gerbils need to learn gerbily things from their parents, so its very important that they are not separated before the 7-8 week mark.


----------



## anawelch (Sep 25, 2013)

Breeders and pet stores are notorious for sexing gerbils wrong. They say if you get a pair you should always double check for yourself. I probably wouldnt go to that breeder anymore tbh. Its good your keeping a companion for Mama! so how many males will you have total after keeping two sons? I had a female pair and I always wondered if having males would be fun.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

Breeders shouldn't sex wrong... Not real breeders anyway..


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

She is a backyard 'breeder' who is clueless. I know the signs of backyard breeders with rats, but not gerbils (the 2 litter thing threw me off at first). I realize it now. 



> I'm confused.. So you had her with a single male or three males




I didn't. My co-worker who also got some gerbils from her friend (the breeder) did this while she was sitting them for me while I was in the process of moving. She just tossed them in with her PEW male that she already had. I bad situation all around, and an embarrassing one at that. My point in bringing up the fact that I had another male in there with her as well means she would have gotten pregnant anyway if not for my co workers stupidity. 




> Will you be keeping the father and giving his sons as company?




As I said, the father isn't mine, and I actually don't know (yet) which male is the father. The breeder to take back the male I had with her, who will be easier to place since he is 'pretty', and I will be keeping 2 or 3 boys from this litter.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

anawelch said:


> Breeders and pet stores are notorious for sexing gerbils wrong. They say if you get a pair you should always double check for yourself. I probably wouldnt go to that breeder anymore tbh. Its good your keeping a companion for Mama! so how many males will you have total after keeping two sons? I had a female pair and I always wondered if having males would be fun.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I don't know the sexes yet, I guess it depends on the balance of them. I tried to see if they could be sexed early with the nipple method and had no luck. I am considering keeping 3 as long as I can tell the difference between them, but if I have more than 3 males I will probably rehome those.

It's the opposite for me, I never had females before I got Patty. You cannot keep as many of them together so I may only keep one girl depending on what the (future) female tank's size is. Right now I have mom and pups in a 10 gallon until they get to the weaning process.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Tonight I had a chance to try sexing the babies while mom was busy with a snack. This is preliminary and I will check back on Sunday or so-

Baby 1 - black eyes - mostly black skin - female (?)
Baby 2 - pink/ruby eyed - plain skin (possibly a REW/PEW?) - this is the only one I am 100% sure is female, I will probably be keeping her. Nipples are prominent. 
Baby 3 - black eyes - spotted skin mainly near head (possibly nutmeg?) - male (?)
Baby 4 - black eyes - spotted skin mainly near head - male (?)
Baby 5 - black eyes - spotted skin mainly near head - male (?)
Baby 6 - black eyes - plain skin - male (?)


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Babies - would be curious what others think they are going to be.


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

Are you sure only one was ruby eyed? Looks like possibly red fox, dove/sapphire/lilac, pink eyed white, black, and two nutmegs.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Awaiting_Abyss said:


> Are you sure only one was ruby eyed? Looks like possibly red fox, dove/sapphire/lilac, pink eyed white, black, and two nutmegs.


Yes, positive, though I remain unsure if it is a ruby or pink eyed. All the rest are definitely black eyed.

I guess then it is more likely the Nutmeg male is the father? 

He also impregnated his nutmeg sister (my co worker's female is pregnant now and showing).


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

Could you get better pictures of the lightest one, the light yellow one and the gray one then?

I'm confused... your coworker has how many gerbils together? And how did they manage to introduce your girl to a clan?


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Awaiting_Abyss said:


> Could you get better pictures of the lightest one, the light yellow one and the gray one then?
> 
> I'm confused... your coworker has how many gerbils together? And how did they manage to introduce your girl to a clan?


I will post new ones on Sunday. I don't really want to touch them again till then. Mom doesn't mind but she rearranges the whole tank when I do it. 

She had one gerbil that IIRC is a couple years old (pew male, from a pet store, dont know where) who had been alone for awhile because his brother died. She got a couple from the same breeder I did - what she thought were two brothers, but were actually a brother and a sister. Her PEW male (i guess, I didnt see it) accepted the newcomers very quickly and there was no problems. Even though I gave her my 10 gallon to keep Patty in while I was packing, she just put her in with the rest of them. Didn't say anything about fights. Perhaps we're just lucky. The new ones hadn't been with the PEW for very long, maybe a week?

At any rate, one of them mated with her. My male that I just gave back was not with her at the point she would have had to have gotten pregnant (early Jan).


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Starting to think I was off on the first sexing...looking at them again, I swear that 5 of them seem to have 'nipples' mainly by their armpits (thought I cannot tell with their mid sections) and the anus and genitals seem very close...or is common at 6-7 days to be mistaken on this? 

A female heavy litter would be bad as I can probably only keep one.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

I will get new pics here once their fur is a little more in, but I was able to (pretty positively) sex them today:

Baby 1 - PEW - female
Baby 2 - Grey/lilac - female
Baby 3 - black - female
Baby 4 - Siamese? 1 - female
Baby 5 - Siamese? 2 - male
Baby 6 - golden agouti - female

I want to wait a couple more days for their coats to come in; I am not 100% sure about the coats of the possible Siamese or of Baby 6, whose color is very light still. 

The 2 Siamese babies have a slightly darker yellow fur like their agouti sister, but they have dark tails and very dark noses/ears. I am no expert, but I couldn't figure out what else they could be with that coloring. Baby 6 is like them but without the dark points and slightly lighter colored fur..


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

I really would like to find homes for at least 3 of the females. I have no preference (at the moment) save for I'd really like to adopt out the black one in case she ends up looking too much like mom.


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

Definitely no siamese in the pictures. They are a light creamy brown color. Siamese and burmese don't get dark points other than the tail until they molt at 10 weeks.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Awaiting_Abyss said:


> Definitely no siamese in the pictures. They are a light creamy brown color. Siamese and burmese don't get dark points other than the tail until they molt at 10 weeks.


Then what do you think they are?


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

Nutmegs.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Awaiting_Abyss said:


> Nutmegs.


Ah ok thank you. I guess we know who the father was then. 

I did luck out in one aspect though - none of the babies are the same. Only 2 have the same fur, and they are different sexes.


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

Actually if there is indeed a pink eyed white in the mix (it could be a dove though) then the father is the PEW, since they carry the white bellied gene. If there is not a pew baby, then the father is probably the nutmeg, since black and nutmegs are self bellied colors.If the PEW was the father then the "nutmegs" could be nutmeg or DEH. I don't see an agouti.


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

Can't edit..PEW can be aa or A* so the PEW could still be the father if he carries a recessive e.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Tried to get pics of the 2 girls that I am not 100% on.

You were right that more were not black eyed. The golden one in this pic is pink eyed, but now that I look at the white one she appears to have ruby or even black eyes (so a REW then?). I may have mixed these 2 up before the golden one's fur started to come in. She lacks the dark points of her brother and sister.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Figured I may as well do the others. 

These pics made the possible DEH's points look lighter than they appear to my eyes (my camera has a too bright flash)

















No mystery with the last 2, though I imagine that grey one could molt at some point.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Other side of the DEHs 









Their feet, tales, ears and the area around their noses are dark.


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

The first two are pink eyed white and red fox (if it has a solid belly). REW requires two recessive gray or "g" genes, and though it is possible, its unlikely that both parents carried one.

I stand by nutmegs for the second two.

The darker one is black. 

The gray one looks like it has a brown hue. Is that just the photo?


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Awaiting_Abyss said:


> The first two are pink eyed white and red fox (if it has a solid belly). REW requires two recessive gray or "g" genes, and though it is possible, its unlikely that both parents carried one.
> 
> I stand by nutmegs for the second two.
> 
> ...


Well, the thing about the white one is that her eyes are alot darker than the sister she is pictured with, who clearly has pink eyes. This isn't very apparent in pics. I guess we'll see when they open. The pink eyed possible fox baby I don't know yet, her peachfuzz is mainly on her back and there isn't much on her belly yet to say. She probably has the least amount of fur of all the babies.

I think it's just the flash with the grey baby. It was tough to take decent pics of them with the poor lighting in this place combined with the weird flash on this older digital camera, not to mention their squirminess. 

Mom is starting to have trouble containing them in the nest (she has dug a very deep one so they cannot escape), so everything is fine. When they get some more fur in a couple days I will take more pics.


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

She sounds like a good mom. 

You can't depend on eye color to determine REW from PEW. They look nearly identical and can be identical. Its about genetics. REW carry "gg." 
I'm not sure where you're located, but in most places gg is rare. 
I got my gg gerbils completely by accident. Someone asked me to breed their older boy who was either a poor siamese or burmese. It turned out he was actually a colorpoint slate and my pet store find happened to carry one recessive g.


----------



## Daize (Jun 8, 2013)

Gerbils are so cute. Do they make good pets? How long do they live?


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

Daize said:


> Gerbils are so cute. Do they make good pets? How long do they live?


They make great pets. They are great cardboard recyclers.They live about 3 to 4 years. My very first gerbil lived past his 6 year birth day.They are also pretty healthy, especially when compared to mice and rats.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Awaiting_Abyss said:


> They make great pets. They are great cardboard recyclers.


Yes! This is a great 'utilitarian' use for gerbils, aside from being good pets. We no longer have to throw out any cardboard here.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

A couple of the babies seem to have wounds on their tails - mom was moving the nest and has been rough with them, but I don't know if that is what did it - is this something I should I be majorly concerned about, or is this normal (the wounds I mean)?


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss (Jul 24, 2012)

Its something to be concerned about, but it may have been an accident. I wouldn't be extremely concerned unless there are more major wounds. 

Make sure the mother has plenty of fresh water and food.

What else do you have in her tank? 
I keep my breeding tank very simple. Just 4 inches of bedding rather than the normal 8 or more inches, no food bowl (I scatter feed), and just a water bottle. No wheel, no big chewing objects. I only have a small wood block and I give the parents one toilet paper tube a day to keep them from getting too bored, but not too distracted from the babies.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

She gets nothing but about 3-4 inches of bedding and occasional chewing item - toilet rolls, small folded pieces of cardboard, etc. Tons of food and plenty of water, more protein than I would give a non nursing gerbil. She doesn't really seem stressed, but the babies are starting to get hard for her to contain. 

The black one has a nick on her tail near her butt (no blood) and the pink eyed honey had a little bit of blood at the very tip of hers, which is how I noticed all of this.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Mom seems to be kicking the black one out of the nest....agh not good.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Ok this morning both babies were in her nest, but the very tip of the honey babies tail is gone and black baby's tail is partly degloved. 

I've put some neosporin on both, and they seem to be OK.


----------



## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Quick update - 

Babies have started to open their eyes. The white one has turned out to be a BEW. But I think I am about to lose the pink eyed honey. She has never walked right and although mom is keeping her in the nest, something seems off about her. Her eyes have not opened. I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up dying in the next couple of days. She seems warm, doesn't look small, and doesn't seem to be in pain - but I don't know yet.


----------

