# Using Critter Nation without level/shelf



## bclaytonsc (Jul 11, 2016)

Hi everyone! 

I'm getting two new babies this weekend (so much for my "not getting anymore rats" mentality...) and have decided to upgrade to a single CN for them. In my current cage set up I do not have any levels... Just hammocks and different hanging baskets and toys etc.

Does anyone use a Critter Nation without the additional shelf/level and ramp in it? If so, could I see photos? Just wondering how difficult it will be to fill all the space. Thanks!


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## CorbinDallasMyMan (Feb 24, 2017)

Mine is a bit of a contrary opinion so feel free to ignore it completely 

Taking out mid-level floors and shelves is really popular right now but I've never cared for it. I used to use a Critter Nation but the vast amount of empty space became tiresome to fill up with hammocks, perches, and baskets (even with the add-on shelf on one side). Set-up and tear-down took so long on cage cleaning day. This is actually one of the reasons I stopped using the CN altogether. 

My favorite set-up with my CN was when I was using 2 add-on shelves instead of just the one. It was quicker and easier to set up and no ramps or ladders were needed.










One reason I like shelves and levels is because they increase the amount of usable floor space (running around space) in the cage and I think it's one of the easiest ways to make use of cubic footage. I like to keep a cluttered cage and this can be more time consuming when you have to find ways to arrange lots of smaller items like baskets and hammocks versus one big shelf. 

Many people seem to prefer not using mid-levels and shelves to encourage climbing/exercise. I think this is totally valid. In addition to floor space that rats can run around on or just nap on, I also like using lava ledges, bendy rope perches and hammocks so my boys can access every inch of the cage while getting exercise. Norway rats are naturally terrestrial, not arboreal (as much as they enjoy it, they can be quite clumsy climbers), so I don't like to make their cage _just_ about climbing. I like a combination of both walky and climby things but I try to arrange the cage to make sure that a clumsy rat will never fall too far.


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## shibezone (Feb 5, 2018)

Congrats on your upcoming babies!

I'd agree with Corbin's use of the cage! While I don't yet have my Critter Nation (waiting for the national backorder to be filled) I've had to spend a lot of time on how to make the vertical space in a cage safe even before my rats as my last hamster, Hulda, was an avid climber. Hamsters don't have hardly any fear of falling, some will hop right off the edge of things quite happily, so the biggest thing was making sure they never fall too far. Even though rats are larger and hardier it's still a good idea to limit falls as much as possible, I feel thus I really do prefer having the platforms.

That said, if you don't want to use the large shelves I'd invest in a lot of large wooden ledges for them to safely sit on, as well as lava ledges or other such perches. Also, baskets are a great idea!
Use wood or rope bridges to go from place to place so they can motor around in a variety of ways. You could maybe even make extra large hammocks, or hammocks with more levels for them to use in the airspace.
Also: Examine the way you organize the cage and identify any 'fall zones'. Make sure there aren't hard edges for them to fall on, and that their landing is soft.

I've watched my clumsiest rat fall off all kinds of things, I'm sure baby rats are just as good at it. My favorite example is he stood at the edge of the shelf, stood on his hind legs to sniff for a moment and when he went back down he missed placing his front paws on the shelf and tumbled forward off of it and onto his back. He was totally fine, he only fell about 5 inches at most. Another time he tried to hop down out of the digging box to stash a piece of dry pasta he found, but misplaced his feet and dangled by his back legs for a second, squealing about it the whole time. Clumsy rats find a way!


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## bclaytonsc (Jul 11, 2016)

Thank you both for your responses! Currently I use several lava ledges, ropes, hammocks, baskets, etc so they do have "levels" per se, not just having to climb, I just prefer this set up due to ease of cleaning and the fact that my current cage came with really crappy huge plastic shelves that would just collect urine, so I removed them. 

Wondering if I got an absorbent fleece cover for the shelf in the CN if it wouldn't bother me so much... I just hate the way urine would collect on the ones I had previously in my cage!

Suggestions?


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## shibezone (Feb 5, 2018)

Oh boy do I feel you, my current one has these little troughs on the platforms that the pee just pools in and it's The Worst. I'd take them out but I use them for a lot of things, so I have to deal with it.

I think the fleece covers would help a ton, though, yeah! I've kind of half-assedly clipped a bit of fleece to one of my shelves to keep the wheel base from rattling on the shelf and it really has helped keep that spot clean and with a once-a-week washing it never really smells all that bad. You'll probably still have to clean the shelf itself once in a while, but it won't be nearly as nasty.


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## CorbinDallasMyMan (Feb 24, 2017)

bclaytonsc said:


> Wondering if I got an absorbent fleece cover for the shelf in the CN if it wouldn't bother me so much... I just hate the way urine would collect on the ones I had previously in my cage! Suggestions?


Yeah, people complain about wire mesh floors contributing to bumblefoot but I think leaving solid plastic floors/levels bare might be just as bad. Walking around through pee puddles is just asking for infection.

The pans that come with the CN (both the floor and the shelf) are really shallow and don't hold loose substrates like aspen/Carefresh/paper pellets very well. There are a few different ways people use fleece in CNs. Some place the absorbent layer down on the pan then wrap and clip fleece around it. Some make "pillowcase" style liners that slide over the pan. I had crazy chewers who were always trying to "untuck" the fleece so these methods didn't work for me so I made fleece/UHaul padding mats that I would just set on the shelves. They were thick/sturdy enough that they stayed in place pretty well without even being clipped down. 

Have you thought about what you're going to do with the floor of the cage?


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## bclaytonsc (Jul 11, 2016)

CorbinDallasMyMan said:


> Have you thought about what you're going to do with the floor of the cage?


Yes, I bought a Bass Equipment 3" deep pan so I can continue to use the bedding I like. Not a big fan of fleece in general.


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

edit- YIKES... sorry for the novel I wrote. I'm embarrassed. I have a rambling-problem.;D

I don't have a super strong opinion on one being better than the other because one way isn't objectively better or worse than the other, and it's almost entirely personal preference. Still I'll pop in just to give a contrasting viewpoint for the original question. I have 2 cages right now, one is open space and one isn't. I think what one person will hate another person will like when it comes to comparing these two layouts. 

I have 2 DCN cages right now, one of my cages has 2 of the bass pans and the other has just 1. Note I only have 2 DCNs right now because I've been caring for a friend (of a friend's) rats because of personal stuff. I wouldn't ever want to deal with 2 DCNs long term, personally. ;D The borrowed cage + rats are in the cage with many shelves and the floors, since I didn't want to be experimental with someone else's rats I guess.

Yes it is more work to both decorate and clean the cage with the open space that you have to fill with stuff. If your cage is filled up properly, you will have a lot of stuff to deal with on cleaning day lol. But I don't mind it, it does take me maybe 50% longer than normal due to both dismantling and redecorating with all the "stuff" but I really enjoy creating different layouts each week. 

Sometimes I feel really tired on cleaning day which makes me pretty grumpy, but most of the time I can enjoy it quite a bit just because I always have fun putting everything back up.

I do like how my very flexible open layout has benefited my rats. My rats in my open cage seem to be more robust than they were previously. My chubby boy is more of a tough brick than a pear now and he doesn't have little wing-flaps under his arms, and my thin girls are heavier and feel more solid, their shoulders and rump look very balanced now. They also are a lot more proficient at climbing- one of my girls actually RUNS down the bars now like some horror film creature (it's scary!) and they don't seem wobbly or nervous when they're climbing and balancing on their different cage items. 

I felt that before they had too many sleep/lounging spots in the cage. The cage was mostly hammocks with a big wheel and a few igloos and some fun toys and ledges here and there- just a very typical cage setup I think. Now their cage is stuffed full with different shape/size ropes, all different textures and kinds of branches, little climbing ledges, and tubs and baskets and things which are usually stuffed with nesting material and often bits of food hidden throughout. 

Their favorite toys and fresh food is usually placed in challenging spots so that they have incentive to explore the cage even after they're familiar with the layout. Their biggest "shelves" are large open litter boxes... since that's all they used their shelves for, anyway. 

In my opinion the floor space that they do have in the open cage has a lot more value now than all floor space and shelves in my other cage, which apparently are just there for the rats to lie around on and poop and pee on (even though their litter box is right. there.) and their cage is designed more for activity and exploration than for dragging their tails around or crawling into the next sleep space. Even if there is less total floor space, the cage is full enough that even the pockets of air space provides them with a challenge as far as reaching for the next rope bridge or hopping across to the next ledge.

It is more work and I want to stress that you need to have some hammocks underneath to catch any falls. Though, amusingly my open cage crew falls a lot less than the others in the cage with the shelves, go figure. I do try to make the other cage challenging and everything but no matter what I do they still just take the easiest path to reach every spot in the cage, I guess I find that frustrating and limiting personally. 

I wasn't trying to do the open-cage thing intentionally, I was waiting to order a 4th metal pan for my 2nd cage it was open in the meantime. I can really see how it isn't for everyone and there are things I like about my other cage with its floors and shelves too. But honestly even after the other rats and their cage is gone, I'm going to stick with the open layout since I think it's fun, I like how it has effected my rats as far as their confidence and condition goes, and it gives them a lot to explore as I drastically change the layout each week when I clean out so I think I just have an easier time keeping them stimulated in the "open canvas" cage where I don't feel as obstructed by the shelves and floors, I guess. But if I ever get exhausted with the open cage I don't have any problems going to the normal layout again, either.


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## CorbinDallasMyMan (Feb 24, 2017)

Coffeebean said:


> edit- YIKES... sorry for the novel I wrote.


But it was such a good novel! +10


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

CorbinDallasMyMan said:


> But it was such a good novel! +10


Ha don't encourage me!  Thanks lol.


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## bclaytonsc (Jul 11, 2016)

Thank you all for such good advice and information... no worries about your novel Coffeebean, I appreciate it.  

I have ordered a fleece + absorbent layer cover for the shelf in the CN. I will experiment with it first and if I still don't like having the shelf in there, I will try an open layout without it. Either way I know I'm going to have tons of fun decorating and furnishing all this space with my new CN


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## Asiposea (Dec 16, 2016)

I use the DCN with no middle shelf, but I've created a 'half shelf' out of a closetmaid wire shelf. It gives a more open feel and I can open the upper doors and still be able to reach down to the bottom. I'm considering adding another one. It's easier for spot cleaning. I second CorbinDallasMyMan's notion of rats being more fossorial. They may be agile as young rats, but climbing is generally not the forte of the majority. I want my rats to get exercise from foraging rather than climbing. If I had the space I'd prefer two single critter nations attached at the ends to create a horizontal cage with more floor space. The DCN is not a perfect rat cage, but it sure is fun to change around.


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## CorbinDallasMyMan (Feb 24, 2017)

Asiposea said:


> If I had the space I'd prefer two single critter nations attached at the ends to create a horizontal cage with more floor space.


I have two single units and when I had more space I had them side-by-side. It was my favorite CN configuration. With a 6' long cage, my boys would tear around so fast, I loved watching get to run full blast inside the cage. I moved and had to stack the cages like a DCN and I didn't like it as much. When I ended up making my own cage, I really wanted to provide them with that long space to run around again. 

Raining Rats Rattery in AZ has a pretty cool CN set-up. They have three single units (or add-ons, I'm not sure) connected side-by-side without the shelf underneath and the full 9' top of the cage is an open air play area. They have one set for their girls and the other for their boys. It's pretty impressive.


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## KrisbeeKream (Apr 15, 2018)

I also want to go without levels in my SCN eventually, but I'm using the 2-level method for now as well. It works surprisingly well compared to 1 shelf, with or without ramps. My hurdle when trying to set up without the shelves is trying to determine how to prevent falls. The one time I tried, I had my head in the bottom of the cage looking up to see how far a fall would be from any given perch or hammock. I imagine it's a lot easier with more experience and confidence!


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## Asiposea (Dec 16, 2016)

CorbinDallasMyMan said:


> I have two single units and when I had more space I had them side-by-side. It was my favorite CN configuration. With a 6' long cage, my boys would tear around so fast, I loved watching get to run full blast inside the cage. I moved and had to stack the cages like a DCN and I didn't like it as much. When I ended up making my own cage, I really wanted to provide them with that long space to run around again.


There's something special about watching animals running for the joy of it. I do wish there were more cages that could be modified for length. With guinea pigs, the C&C cages are popular and can be arranged in a modular fashion. If this material just had 1/2 inch spacing I'm sure the pet rat community would catch on quickly.





CorbinDallasMyMan said:


> Raining Rats Rattery in AZ has a pretty cool CN set-up. They have three single units (or add-ons, I'm not sure) connected side-by-side without the shelf underneath and the full 9' top of the cage is an open air play area. They have one set for their girls and the other for their boys. It's pretty impressive.


I remember seeing this RRR setup a while ago. Very creative and fun setup! Wonder how they deep clean.


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## desdisques (Apr 16, 2018)

I can't seem to get my picture to post so you will just have to click the link.

https://imgur.com/a/sSl6c1G 

I used the shelf at first but they decided to use it as a giant litter box. (Which really impeded the training for the actual litterbox!) I ended up taking it out and just hanging a ton of stuff. They are young and seem to like this just fine. They never spent much time on the shelf anyway. I still use the ramp because they like to sit at the top of it and hide behind a cloth tunnel I have hanging at the top of it. I love sewing so they have a ton of hammocks and trust me they use all of them. I also put in a lot of lava ledges they enjoy sitting on.


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

desdisques said:


> I can't seem to get my picture to post so you will just have to click the link.
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/sSl6c1G
> 
> I used the shelf at first but they decided to use it as a giant litter box. (Which really impeded the training for the actual litterbox!) I ended up taking it out and just hanging a ton of stuff. They are young and seem to like this just fine. They never spent much time on the shelf anyway. I still use the ramp because they like to sit at the top of it and hide behind a cloth tunnel I have hanging at the top of it. I love sewing so they have a ton of hammocks and trust me they use all of them. I also put in a lot of lava ledges they enjoy sitting on.


What I like to do about the shelves (because mine used them as pooping platforms too) is I removed them but replaced them with actual litter boxes, like those shallow cheap plastic ones you can pick up for a couple dollars. You could do this in different ways but as I am a soldering freak I just melted holes in mine to run zip ties through so that I could hang them up as little shelves and fill them with litter.


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