# Raw Diet for Dogs?



## delilahrene (Nov 1, 2013)

This is something that I have been debating for a while on switching too. I am vegan, so on that basis, I really do not want to deal with meat which is why I have not looked into it too much, but I want my dog to be as healthy as possible. It sounds like the logical thing to do based on her species, but I want to be sure I would not neglect to give her the right diet and make her sick from missing nutrients/vitamins. Definitely something I need to research more, but I am also looking for some personal advice from others. Does anyone do a raw, natural diet, and have you noticed positive changes?


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## PaigeRose (Apr 12, 2013)

My dog ate Beneful for most of his life, up until a few years ago and I started working at a pet store. I'm very well versed on pet nutrition now and I've done a lot of research since finding that it was a topic that meant a lot to me. Honestly, raw is a LOT of work. It requires you to know exactly what meats you need and they arent the pretty ones either. Livers and hearts as well as tracheas are really popular and contain a lot of nutrients. I switched my dog to a holistic/premium food after learning more about canine nutrition and he has so much energy for an 8yr old, his coat is great, and he's really healthy. Aside from his teeth, which could use improvement. I think if you are really dedicated and interested in feeding raw, go for it. Buy in bulk, know what supplements to use, how much and when, etc. I'm a student, full time worker, and I own lots of animals. Feeding raw isnt possible for me until I'm set in my career. But eventually I would like to switch my dog and cats to raw. 

Comparing it to rats, raw feeding is a lot like making your own rat mix. Better foods like Oxbow, HT, etc are the premium foods and things like Kaytee and seed mixes are the commercial bottom of the barrel brands.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I do occasional raw meals, like holidays and birthdays. I'm strange. I considered switching when my dog had her first then second switching. 

They're hard work, and more than slightly disgusting. As a previous vegetarian who switched slightly to meat due to health, it's no easy task. 

For. Higher price and intensive research, you can find natural holistic diets that are dry mixes. talking to your vet is a good idea for diet advice. 


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## PaigeRose (Apr 12, 2013)

It really depends on your vet. Some are well educated in nutrition, others took one course in college and deem Science Diet and Beneful "good enough". Theyll often throw dogs on pricey perscription foods (SD or Royal Canin usually) for something that could easily be fixed with a better food.


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## deedeeiam (Apr 8, 2014)

The whole reasoning behind the raw diet is backwards. Feeding raw is supposed to be more natural and essentially mimic what the dogs would be eating in the wild. The problem is that our dogs are domesticated and have been for thousands of years. If your dog has a particular allergy that makes it impossible to feed some kind of dry food, then by all means, get a reputable vet and figure out exactly which supplements and vitamins need added. But, unless you're an expert in canine nutrition, you're just going to be spending a lot of time and money getting a food that might possibly be as good as an available dry kibble.


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## mimsy (Jun 8, 2014)

In the past I had some of my personal ferrets that I had from babies that were mostly all raw food. I think it's a little easier for them cause I would buy whole frozen food. So I know they got all the parts that may be difficult to come by at a regular store. I did also feed a sort of soup made from mainly of whole chickens as well sometimes. I thought about my dogs, but it seemed a lot more difficult to get all the things they would need, not to mention very expensive. I used mainly grain free quality dry foods with them. Currently I'm down to one old ferret who gets free fed her dry food but mostly only eats chicken baby food. She has insulinoma and so far it's fairly controlled by eating the high protein diet many times daily. My dogs are Howie a 16 year old aussie and Lump our 9 year old pit. So both those guys are quiet old and have been on a senior food because they tend to get over weight in their old years and their organs are not up to what they once were.


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## delilahrene (Nov 1, 2013)

deedeeiam said:


> The whole reasoning behind the raw diet is backwards. Feeding raw is supposed to be more natural and essentially mimic what the dogs would be eating in the wild. The problem is that our dogs are domesticated and have been for thousands of years. If your dog has a particular allergy that makes it impossible to feed some kind of dry food, then by all means, get a reputable vet and figure out exactly which supplements and vitamins need added. But, unless you're an expert in canine nutrition, you're just going to be spending a lot of time and money getting a food that might possibly be as good as an available dry kibble.


From what I have read, dogs have the same digestive tract as their wild counterparts. Another thing that appeals to me is the fact that all purchased kibble is grain based and fit for an omnivore- which canines are not designed to be. Although dogs are domesticated, their genetics are so similar to that of a wolf (since they can interbreed) and dry commercial dog food has not been around for thousands of years. I definitely need to do some more research, but it is really starting to make sense to me. Obviously this is not something I will jumping into tomorrow though.


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## delilahrene (Nov 1, 2013)

I meant plant not grain as she is currently on a grain free food. The first ingredient is meat but almost everything after that is some form of plant (blueberries, alfalfa, potato, etc) . Ran out of time to edit.


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## EmilyGPK (Jul 7, 2014)

I am not sure if it would be considered spamming but I have a blog post where I explain why I feed my dogs mainly dried food and feel it is fine for them and consistent with the research out there on dog nutrition. So long as the diet has acceptable protein level and the dogs do not have special health needs I feed a better quality dry food with some minor supplimentation is just fine for dogs, which is not to say there is anything at all wrong with going high protein or raw--that is a great option too. Dogs do have some adaptations to deal with carbs, but retain a preference for proteins. So it is a question of how far along that continuum you want to go. A dried diet will tend to have more carbs than a fresh one--but not too much IMHO.


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## delilahrene (Nov 1, 2013)

EmilyGPK said:


> I am not sure if it would be considered spamming but I have a blog post where I explain why I feed my dogs mainly dried food and feel it is fine for them and consistent with the research out there on dog nutrition. So long as the diet has acceptable protein level and the dogs do not have special health needs I feed a better quality dry food with some minor supplimentation is just fine for dogs, which is not to say there is anything at all wrong with going high protein or raw--that is a great option too. Dogs do have some adaptations to deal with carbs, but retain a preference for proteins. So it is a question of how far along that continuum you want to go. A dried diet will tend to have more carbs than a fresh one--but not too much IMHO.


I would definitely love to read it! Trying to get a hold of all information I can, everyone's opinions are all over the place!


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## EmilyGPK (Jul 7, 2014)

Here is my run at it
http://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/feed-my-dogs-only-dry-dog-health-food-carbohydrates
http://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/how-to-calculate-carbohydrates-carbs-dry-dog-food


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## deedeeiam (Apr 8, 2014)

delilahrene said:


> kibble is grain based and fit for an omnivore- which canines are not designed to be. Although dogs are domesticated


But they are. A flexible diet is one of the main qualifiers for domestication. A dog _can _have grain and other food because their body can indeed process it. The parts might be the same as a wolf, but they do function differently. That's one of the whole points of domestication that people have known since the 1800s, "The dog is neither wholly carnivorous nor wholly herbivorous, but of a mixed kind, and can receive nourishment from either flesh or vegetables." (Richard Lawrence, The Complete Farrier)

Both, unbiased researchers and dog food companies, spend MILLIONS on studies and research on the effects of food on dogs and other animals. People have been studying dog food for 100 years. So, I just think it's kind of silly to think that any untrained individual can do some online research and figure out a diet that's better for dogs. Sure, something might work for one animal under one particular circumstance, but the likelihood that a made up diet is better than a high-quality dog food is miniscule.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Sorry, but dogs aren't omnivores, and the ability to change diet is not what makes an animal domesticated.

Anyone that thinks dogs can digest grains needs to examine the feces (of the same dog) of raw and/or grain-free meals versus a meal with grains.

Pet food companies spend millions in research to attempt to prove that they can sell you the floor sweepings and leftover hulls of human products and claim that they're good for your pet. It's extremely naive to think otherwise.


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## EmilyGPK (Jul 7, 2014)

My link includes the research that shows dogs have genetic difference from wolves that allow them to digest carbs This research was not funded by pet food makers. Whether ot not they "should" is really a values choice IMHO, rather than a nutrition one. They still prefer high protein diets and are carnivorse but not obligate carnivores. I feel the best compromise is somewhere in between. Raw diets have many advantages but you have to give supplements to ensure they cover all the trace elements they need. Even wolves don't eat just meat.


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## delilahrene (Nov 1, 2013)

deedeeiam said:


> Both, unbiased researchers and dog food companies, spend MILLIONS on studies and research on the effects of food on dogs and other animals. People have been studying dog food for 100 years. *So, I just think it's kind of silly to think that any untrained individual can do some online research and figure out a diet that's better for dogs.* Sure, something might work for one animal under one particular circumstance, but the likelihood that a made up diet is better than a high-quality dog food is miniscule.


That is a little unfair to say. It is not like I intended to read a wikipedia page, ask a few people on ratforum, and then head to the store and buy some raw steak for her.


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## EmilyGPK (Jul 7, 2014)

Its also not really that hard to provide a complete raw diet so long as you buy a commercial powdered suppliment to go with it. No harder than choosing a kjibble that has an acceptable composition for lifelong feeding.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

The idea that kibble cleans a dog's teeth is really a funny thing. We don't see crunchy biscuits and cookies being advertised for their teeth cleaning benefits, lol. Kibbles just shatter and split when bitten and that's that. Raw meaty bones are better for natural cleaning, but regular brushing is the best thing you can do by far. The powdered raw supplements are good if you don't want to be handling/grinding/dealing with the mess of whole carcasses, organs, etc.


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## delilahrene (Nov 1, 2013)

I soak her food because she does not drink enough water and is prone to dehydrating, so it does not help her teeth at all even if that is what it was designed to do. I could probably learn to tolerate the gore if it was in her best interest.. hopefully; I already deal with some meat/eggs in the house because of the rats. I do not think my vet- although wonderful- has much knowledge about dog nutrition beyond the best commercial kibble to buy. I found a few out of state vets online that are pro-raw, so I may get some sort of phone consultation set up to talk about specific nutritional requirements and how best to meet them (heh meat). I think this is something I am for sure going to pursue switching her too, at least partially raw with a goal of full raw eventually. Thank you for all the information and advice everyone! 

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