# Possibly ulcerating tumor.



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

And oh joy, more vet trips to come! I have the worst time with vet visits lately, this will be my third in two months.

Anyway, poor Snitch has had a scab on him for a few days. It's small, flat, like an ulcer. I was concerned, and have been watching it, but it looks like it would be healing very well, it is not a major wound at all! I have not noticed a lump before. It has not healed at the rate it should have, but one edge of the scab was starting to "peel" very slightly yesterday. It does not seem different today.

Tonight, however, I observed a small lump near the scabbing. It's sort of rough feeling, and it is NOT an abscess. I have had a ton of abscessing and this is something that does not have the physical makeup of anything I have seen before. If it is an abscess, it's the weirdest thing I have ever seen. I personally think it is very likely a tumor, and, from the ulceration, a cancerous one. It may be a cyst, but I am doubtful.


I want to get it looked at by my vet and I will probably opt for it to be removed, depending what the prognosis is for his lifespan and happiness. If he has a low chance of surviving, or is or will be in a lot of pain, I will have him put to sleep, as upsetting and painful as that is for me.

All the lovely info on him~
Diet- HT 2014
Age~ 1.5 years, born in October '09.
Place from ~ BYB
Weight~ A whopping two pounds!


I want opinions on A) what you all think I should do, B) can it wait a couple weeks, and c) what it is.

I am going out of town, so I want to wait on operations if it can wait so I will be here for recovery time, post-op care, meds, etc. If he needs in NOW, then NOW it will be and I will try to set it up so that if anything goes wrong, my dad can handle it.


----------



## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

I do not have as much experience as most people here, but I hope I can help a bit.

A) I would, also, go to a vet. I would probably go sooner or later, depending on how the lump behaves. If it were me, I would probably be checking it several times a day to see how it behaves (texture and/or size changes). Rapid change is probably most likely not a good sign from my experience. If you know anyone in the medical industry, maybe you could bounce some thoughts off of them, even if they specialize in people. My father is a doctor (for people), and I always am bouncing concerns off of him. He helps me figure out if I am being paranoid, not that you are being paranoid, or if I have legitimate concern. Well, he also likes it lol. He likes to be a bit of a know it all, "Oh, I know that med, it does so and so." In general, progression of disease and healing tend to be similar between us and our furry friends.

B) I think that only a vet can really tell you the urgency of Snitch's situation.

C) I could not begin to really tell you what it is, but you could see if it will move around with the skin or not. If it does move with the skin, it is probably not something serious, such as a cyst.

I hope that it is nothing and Snitch is healed up soon.


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

I took a pic of the scab.


http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...05981352849_1339352162_31667946_7666053_n.jpg

It's not very big, and the lump is not visible with the naked eye.

It does not move with the skin, and it seems to have shifted today. I cannot find it like I could yesterday, but I can feel it is there because there is a very small area of abnormality under his skin.


----------



## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

It is a bit hard to see the scab in the picture. Do you have a phone or camera with a macro mode? Most mid to high end phones will have it as part of the camera settings. Most digital cameras should have one too. It is a mode to help a camera focus on something that is very close.

How did you come across the scab? Also, is it just because you pulled back fur that it looks thin?

I am no doctor or vet, but what you describe kind of reminds me how my cats' microchips feel under their skin. It is called a foreign body reaction. The body calcifies around the foreign object and it forms a solid lump. It will feel very hard. It might be hard to tell the density of the lump if it is small. The lump is referred to as a granuloma. I happen to have one in my foot from stepping on some glass. The granuloma will grow to a certain size over the period of maybe 6 months or so, from my personal experience, and then stop. I could be wildly wrong. Perhaps Snitch cut himself on something and got something lodged under the skin. Does this sound like a possibility?

Another possibility could be scare tissue, I am not sure about how it forms or how to determine if it is present. If he was scratching the wound and causing it to heal more slowly, this might be a possibility.

Again, I could just be spouting a lot of nonsense. Most of my knowledge comes from personal experience and second hand knowledge that my father is constantly spewing (he's a big rambler).

Also, I believe Tom_the_Husky mentioned being a med student. He just joined, perhaps you could try bouncing ideas off of him.


----------



## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm certainly no vet, but that does not look like any ulcerated tumor I have seen.


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

It's very small, that photo shows it pretty well, but I can try to get another.

And I did have to pull his fur back so it was visible at all- he has VERY thick, somewhat rough fur. His fur isn't thin at all. Note: His fur has always been rough, there is no known cause, he has always seemed very healthy.

I noticed it when I was giving meds, I check my rats for abnormalities pretty regularly anyway.

The scab appears to have never been deep and is shallow, slightly indented. Humans get similar scabs after pulling off thick scabs from things like scrapes- they are very thin and follow the abrasion. Burns leave similar in some cases.

I've had a granuloma before, it was surgically removed after it formed around an infected wound. (cat bites are fun!) It is not hard enough to be a granuloma. I have no clue what he would have been cut by anyway, but it seems doubtful to me. His cage is very safe, and neither of the others display wounds. The way his scabbing is shaped, I can find no cause for it. It does not look like it was caused by anything outside. The only thing I can come up with is he is chewing on his skin and scrapig it off in layers- that is what it looks like.

The lump itself (yesterday anyway) was sort of round, but slightly bumpy. I do not know how scar tissue could form that way. I do not see any scarring on the surface skin, or evidence of healing at all.

Oh, and the lump is present to the left of the spinal cord and it "sinks" so that I cannot feel it. It returns later. It seems to have a very slight "cord" of material holding it to the skin, because when the lump itself is not present, a very small abnormality can be felt under the skin where it used to be. I noticed this on moday, then yesterday the lump was able to be felt when the abdomen is prodded gently. It moves and can be grasped and brought to the surface skin. He does not seem to feel any pain. I put gentle pressure to the lump and no give was found, the colour of the skin did not change, nor did any sign of abscessing present itself. Since it is not attached to the skin I do not believe it is an abscess. It could be a cyst but the last cyst I saw in a rat was grey, appearing purple under skin, and full of yellow fluid when removed.

I have a fairly good knowledge of both animal and some human medicine, but I may shoot them a PM.


Smesyna, it doesn't to me either, but I am at a loss as to what else it COULD be, especially with the lump I felt.


----------



## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

Sorry, but I am all out of ideas. Since, no one seems to have encountered anything similar to this before. I think your best bet is to wait for the lump to become distinguishable and then head over to your vet.

You did not mention what kind of medicine he was/is on. So, I guess a possible side affect from a medicine could have manifested, although I never heard of any side affect like that before. Although, you did not make it sound like he is on any serious meds. It is just my last shot in the dark at what the lump might be. Sorry, if I have just been rambling a lot of nonsense.

I hope it turns out to be nothing serious.

Kind of unrelated, but your Snitch's fur reminds me of a terrier type dog.


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Usually wirey fur is a sign of illness or bad diet but his fur grew in that way when he molted to his adult coat, and has never been any different.

Snitch, along with both other rats, are on baytril for URIs.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

I wish I could offer some advice, you have been so kind in helping me with my babies, but I am stumped! I hope he is alright. He is in great hands! 

.... and what a HANDSOME boy! Thank you for posing the pics of him on the other thread. I thought my Sputnik was a biggie.... he was a midget compared to your Snitch!


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

He is a very big, sweet boy, even if he can get bitey sometimes. (and when he bites, he draws blood. It's because he can't see very well.)

The lump was more obvious last night, it is between the spine and the hip, and is fairly close to both. It does not seem to have grown at all, or otherwise changed, since I noticed it. I am going to try to get him to the vet when we get back from our trip- it is not major enough yet to warrant leaving a rat fresh out of surgery with someone who knows very little about them. He's giving food and water, and I may ask him to watch the lump and keep me updated, but that's the best I can do.

And thanks, frodo, he is a good looking guy. <3 All of my rats are, in my opinion.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Kinsey said:


> He is a very big, sweet boy, even if he can get bitey sometimes. (and when he bites, he draws blood. It's because he can't see very well.)
> 
> The lump was more obvious last night, it is between the spine and the hip, and is fairly close to both. It does not seem to have grown at all, or otherwise changed, since I noticed it. I am going to try to get him to the vet when we get back from our trip- it is not major enough yet to warrant leaving a rat fresh out of surgery with someone who knows very little about them. He's giving food and water, and I may ask him to watch the lump and keep me updated, but that's the best I can do.
> 
> And thanks, frodo, he is a good looking guy. <3 All of my rats are, in my opinion.


I have a boy at home (actually several have this) who has a lumpy tumour on his back, and one has one more on his flank, and its scabbing...

Do you want me to try to take a pic?


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

It would be good if you could. Do you know what they are?


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Kinsey said:


> It would be good if you could. Do you know what they are?


Just tumours (most likely slow growing or benign). 

Can you poke me tomorrow? I just got home not that long ago with Lilith who had a pretty radical eye surgery (her eye was removed but there was so much more).

I am taking Truffle in tomorrow for her mass removal (a biggie) but it should be fine. I'll be home 7:30ish EST.

Soo tired and the alarm will be going off at 5:30 am Blech.


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

I have seen very little growth from my little friend Snitch's tumor, thank goodness, so I think I will get it taken out when I get back from my trip. I may not, too, depends on how everyone else is doing- order of importance, if someone is very ill or Romeo is going downhill (we watch closely due to his age!), that comes first. If it grows a lot it will come out right away.

I'll shoot you a PM tomorrow evening, maybe afternoon. I have to pack for our trip but it'll be there to remind you. Thank you!


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

You might want to hold off, I lost one of my ratgirls during surgery today. :'(


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Oh no, I am so sorry 

So, you think it would have too much risk to get it taken out? It's still very small.


----------



## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

I thought she meant hold off pm'ing her because she is grieving?

I am very sorry lilspaz :'(


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Ah yes, I'm sure that's what it was.

Lilspaz, whenever you feel up to it is fine. It's not super urgent since he seems ok.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Kinsey said:


> Ah yes, I'm sure that's what it was.
> 
> Lilspaz, whenever you feel up to it is fine. It's not super urgent since he seems ok.


AS long as it doesn't bother him I wouldn't worry. I had 1 removed from Percy, but it came back quickly, but even then it doesn't bother him...it doesn't seem invasive, just sits on the surface.
Toby's has scabbing on it but it also doesn't bother him. He's 2, and failing, so I am leaving it and watching it


----------

