# Might re home biting rat - advice?



## Cstaar (Mar 7, 2012)

Hi

I know a girl who works in my local pet shop. They have 2 rat girls who have been there for ages now - like 2 months - one of them has started biting. Now there are signs near the rats telling people not to try and pet them etc as the rats bite.... so I don't see them getting a home anytime soon. It's also giving a bad name about rats to anyone who walks in :-(

My friend has been asking the rat community here if anyone can take them in and help her. So far no luck. I can't stop thinking about these girls so have been wondering about adopting them both. 

I have space time and money but have never dealt with a rat that bites like this one.... any tips. I have read about immersion and would try that (I've done it before but not with a problem rat) but do you have any general advice. 

I want to take them but don't want to take on more than I can handle , it's not fair on me or them. 

Any comments appreciated. Thanks 

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## Daize (Jun 8, 2013)

Cstaar said:


> Hi
> 
> I know a girl who works in my local pet shop. They have 2 rat girls who have been there for ages now - like 2 months - one of them has started biting. Now there are signs near the rats telling people not to try and pet them etc as the rats bite.... so I don't see them getting a home anytime soon. It's also giving a bad name about rats to anyone who walks in :-(
> 
> ...


Before you decide to take on a rat/s that bites. Make sure you're in it for the long haul. Even if you never get them over the biting. Make sure you're willing to give them a forever home with you. 

It could simply be the environment they're currently in that's causing the problems or it could be something else.

In my opinion, it's just not fair to the rat/s to take then in and then send them away if things don't work out the way you hoped. So, if you decide to get one or both. Make sure you're willing to keep them forever.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Can you give them four hours a day for at least a week? That's how long my rat took to be "reformed". 

Do you have money for your own medical bills as well as theirs? Don't be fooled; a truly vicious rat can necessitate stitches. 

Are you willing to house a rat that could, for the next three years, seek to hurt you? I'd like to think every rat can be reformed but sometimes they're not with the right person. If you can't truly do an aggressive immersion, then they'll never reform. And it wouldn't be fair to rehome them. Do you have enough security for the next three years to be sure you can care die them sufficiently?

It sounds scary. I'm sorry for that. It is really sweet to rescue rats but you have to know what you are getting into. You here about how amazing it is to breakthrough, but you have to understand the hours of doubt, crying, bleeding, anger, fear that you will likely experience. The rat has a foot up on you, as it doesn't mind killing you but you don't want to harm them. 

It might not be this bad. They may need reassurance, stability and love and nothing more. But never hope for the best without fearing the worst. 


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## Cstaar (Mar 7, 2012)

Thank you all for your replies. Certainly a lot to think about. And if I was to take her then I am definitely in it for the long haul. That's why I wanted to ask on here.

I do have the time to give her and the money etc... so that's not my big concern. 

I was concerned over how it might be with her as a part of my mischief (eventually) and wanted to hear some stories about what it is like living with a problem rat. 

I will think about what I want to do. I want to help her and I am prepared that she may never like me or other people, I just want her to have a good rat life. They don't live long and she's pulled my heart strings ( I try and avoid petshops) but when I first saw her there months ago she seemed sweet. She didn't bite at first but now she does so hopefully it's a product of environment. 

I will think it over to make sure I don't make the wrong decision.......

Thank you all. 




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## courtney+ella (Jan 7, 2014)

Lucy my female rat was a biter, but I showed her no fear she would bite me and I would ignore it, and since she doesn't even bother trying to bite me and is a big sook, don't know if it will work for you but it did for me


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## Cstaar (Mar 7, 2012)

Yes, from talking to my friend I think her biting is largely a product of her environment. I haven't decided to take her yet, still finding out a few more details about her, and need to get the OK from my boyfriend who I live with as he would have to commit to this too. He loves the rats don't get me wrong, but I need to make sure he is committed as well. 

I am just trying to get all the info I can on her and experiences from you guys so I can make an informed decision


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## ratswithfoxandbear (Feb 12, 2014)

I have a biter that is getting a tad less aggressive; however, she is a not-so-nice rat to my other girls. It has negatively affected the rat pack dynamic, and she barbers all of them. The second largest attempts to protect the smaller girls. She is attempting to win alpha-status, I am guessing. The three are noticeably happier when I am playing one-on-one with my aggressive girl. (By play I mean train because she needs that sort of hours-long one-on-one stuff. She is less aggressive outside of the cage but continues to have cage-aggression.)

This is not to scare you but to give you an example of when this sort of thing did not work out the best. I am certain my aggressive girl will be calm soon enough (if not by me than by a more experienced rat owner). Unfortunately, it is very difficult when I watch three ratties in a cuddle-puddle and one rattie sulking and being rude... occasionally attacking that cuddle-puddle and chasing down whichever member is slowest.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

A biting rat cannot rejoin a mischief until it has stopped biting. I'm sure during quarantine and socializing she could be with her friend but not your other rats.

My aggressive rat was put with babies and adults when she reformed and there's no issue, she's actually quite submissive. 


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## ratswithfoxandbear (Feb 12, 2014)

nanashi7 said:


> A biting rat cannot rejoin a mischief until it has stopped biting. I'm sure during quarantine and socializing she could be with her friend but not your other rats.
> 
> My aggressive rat was put with babies and adults when she reformed and there's no issue, she's actually quite submissive.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely correct. The breeder and I are going back and forth about it, honestly. I wanted to remove her from the pack once I noticed that consistent aggression, but the breeder was nervous about her getting even more aggressive. I've been following the breeders advice closely and asked the vet what to do, as well. She and the breeder feel similarly despite the chasing and barbering that has been happening. I am keeping close watch and checking all the babes every morning and night to make sure that barbering stays at barbering and does not turn into scratches and bites.

(It pains me, though, because I would prefer to remove her from the pack. I am also less experienced than the breeder and my vet who is a highly-recommended rat-owner herself.)


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Look up small space or carrier introductions. They're more popular in the uk but I really believe they work. 

I'm not saying your rat should be a lone rat, or that any rat should be. In the OPs case, it's just a matter of separation. In your case, many people find it beneficial to run back through socializing and introductions. Usually it's in the case of rats who need constant support - my Caius, for example, is very nervous and needs Remus or myself at all times. She literally cannot deal without us. In the few times she had to be separated, she deteriorated and got neurotic and would flay people when normally she's a baby doll. 

My recommendation in your case would be to separate her, build a bond with her - immerse her, cuddle her, train her, whatever. Just become hands on. Become her rock. Then; in a smaller cage space if possible and if not then in an introduction place run through intros. Let her know what behavior isn't okay (excessive grooming, harassing chasing) and encourage positive interaction by being hands on and involved. Encourage the others to iterate positively with her. If it helps, think of them as wee humans and you their preschool teacher. 

Usually, your type cases seem to stem from a lack of confidence so just rebuild that. Removing her just makes it easier, especially if her cage mates also need respite. 


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## Cstaar (Mar 7, 2012)

So I got them both today. 

The one who doesn't bite is such a sweetie - cuddly playful and submissive. Shes a standard eared husky rat and I named her Bella. I have no concerns about her.

The other one, a black irish (I think - small white diamond on her chest) I called Roxy. She is the "biter". She is not aggressive just scared. She did not go for us unless we crossed her comfort zone. When she did bite us we bopped her on her nose (gently, like i read on this forum) and said no. She's started to learn. After a couple hours she mellowed and even accepted cuddles. My boyfriend even made her brux (not the scared super loud brux but a happy one). She will chill out for a few minutes and be happy but then snap back and be scared again. She doesn't like being picked up so we need to work on that. I think it is just time, patience and consistency with her, but I'm not overly worried, I've seen her sweet side already. 

I am glad I could give these girls a loving home. 

Just thought I would share with you and say thank you for all your advice. You gave me a lot to consider and I'm glad, I wouldn't have wanted to make the wrong decision, but having met them I think it's a right one.  



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## sachaaa (Mar 17, 2014)

Just coming in as a first timer with a biter, it's definitely a challenge and I commend you for taking it on, it's definitely hard to approach the idea of immersion, and to make sure you really stick to it (I'm finding it a challenge). Hopefully this will be a success story with a happy ending!


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## ratswithfoxandbear (Feb 12, 2014)

nanashi7 said:


> Look up small space or carrier introductions. They're more popular in the uk but I really believe they work.
> 
> I'm not saying your rat should be a lone rat, or that any rat should be. In the OPs case, it's just a matter of separation. In your case, many people find it beneficial to run back through socializing and introductions. Usually it's in the case of rats who need constant support - my Caius, for example, is very nervous and needs Remus or myself at all times. She literally cannot deal without us. In the few times she had to be separated, she deteriorated and got neurotic and would flay people when normally she's a baby doll.
> 
> ...


This is great advice and I appreciate you taking the time to write it out. I will try what you mentioned. I have Angela cuddling with me now actually. The other three got to come out earlier, so I am bonding with Angela at the moment one-on-one. I have a nice temp cage that is large enough to house two rats permanently. I got lucky and found a Quality Cage for sale in my area.

However, I can definitely use this as the temporary home of Angela as we bond and spend time together again. It would also give the other girls some space which would be great.


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## MeinTora (Mar 19, 2014)

Keep us updated  


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I wrote the guide to immersion, and likely immersion and various socialization models based on immersion theory have fixed more rats without neutering than any other method over such a short time frame. 

If the aggression is behavioral in nature extreme immersion is likely to fix it. 

That said, I have an 8 year old daughter and try and choose the smartest and nicest rats to bring home. Knowing how unpleasant extreme immersion is, I choose to avoid putting my daughter and my family at risk. 

People have said that I promote extreme immersion, when in all reality I believe for most people it's something to avoid. 

So, is extreme immersion with a biting rat for you? Well, you have to be brave to go into a small space with a biting rat, and you might get bit although armoring up will help. Second you need to like challenges, your metal may be tested and you will have to stand up for yourself. It helps to have an assertive nature, there's little room for submissive humans in the immersion area, it's take charge... no matter what it takes and fix your rat. Basically it gets ugly before it gets better. 

Some strong humans have fixed biting rats in minutes, other times it's taken many hours. Some rats have mental or health problems and just can't be fixed...

That said.... and even when I don't promote the procedure, lots of people have had great success and wonderful forever relationships have been forged in combat in extreme immersion. Some of these aggressive biters turn out to be smart and outgoing best friends with the proper attention they deserve.... some even become heart rats.

So basically, everything depends on you and your personality. If you like challenges, and are a strong and brave person that gets more determined when facing adversity extreme immersion is the nightmare you are looking for. It's sort of like a viking vacation abroad... 

On the other hand, if you prefer a more sane and normal start to your rat relationships, a biting rat should be avoided at all costs. There are lots of friendly and sweet rats that need homes too. So there's no shame in walking away.

Best luck in whatever you decide.


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