# Runaway rat is back and acting strange



## Anasko (Jun 18, 2013)

Hi everyone!
I am a very new pet rat owner and, naturally, I have a million questions. I am reading books and doing my internet research but some questions cannot be answerd this way so I really am hoping for your help.

When kids got our of school 10 day ago we wnet to a pet store to get a hampster and wound up with 2 young rats. On arrival home 1 of the rats ran away under a tub. We didn't reilize there was a little hole next to a cabinet ! We set up a haveaheart trap with food but for a week we had no sight of her. My 6 year old was really devastated! It was his rat Pixie that got away! Obviously we assumed she is dead or gone and went to buy another one. Yesterday we discovered Pixie in the tub, she is awefully skinny! We introduced her into main cage which went well. Pixie is eating a lot, naturally. What conserns me is that she is running on the wheel nonstop! She eats on the wheel, she sleeps on the wheel, she acts neurotic. I am afraid to handle her and don't let the kids touch her either, they are pretty young and inexperienced. 

My questions are:
- what should I do to make Pixie recover fast? Does she need medical attention in your opinion?
- Is there a chance she will never trust us after such a traumatic experience and act hostile? I would hate to take her back to the store but my kids' health and safety is very important, too. 

Thank you!


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## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

In my opinion sense I am not experienced all the much with rats I would take her to the vet for a check up and explain to them what had happened to check her over to make sure she is still healthy and hasn't ate anything or came in contact with anything that could be harming her also you could try immersion training after the vet check up if she is healthy and everything is ok their is a thread in rat behaviour called immersion training the person who made it rat daddy is very well at explaining rats behaviours and how they think and act I know he would be more then happy to help as he is always helping people on here and telling his stories and experiences 


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## zurfaces (Jan 16, 2013)

She might be a little traumatized. I would give her eggs for protein and feed it to her yourself to help build some trust back. So don't just set it in the cage give her little bits at a time. She probably won't eat outside of the cage but you can give her cage mates oats or peas while she gets the eggs. 

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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

She probsbly is a bit scared, though rats being obsessed by a wheel is nothing new, ive had perfectly settled girls that lived in there wheel. If you give her pleanty of attention and handeling, dont treat her as though shes fragile or breakable and give her a week or two she should be well settled in.


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## Voltage (May 15, 2013)

The poor baby, that must have been absolutely traumatizing for her. She should be fine after some trust training and immersion as said before. But be sure to cover up any holes, they can squeeze through anything they can fit their head in.


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## kyzer (Apr 28, 2013)

Does she have other places to sleep, like hammocks etc? Maybe she just prefers the comfort of the wheel, otherwise you should buy her somewhere else that's comfier to sleep in. Make sure she has somewhere to hide for a while, like a cardboard box with an entrance cut out for her to get in and out of as she is probably feeling a bit stressed in her new home right now, especially after that experience! 

Don't be afraid to handle her. The worst thing you can do right now is not handle her, especially with her being young. Lack of human socialization at a young age will make for a bad pet when she's older. Leave her in the cage for 24 hours to adjust to her surroundings, and then jump straight back into picking her up, petting her and feeding her lots and lots of treats. Spend as much time as you possibly can with her over the next few weeks as she will need to learn how to trust you again. 

Protein is important and will help her put the weight back on, and fresh fruit and veggies every day will give her all the nutrients she needs  

Don't worry about it too much, she should be fine and recover fully. My rat discovered a hole in one of our chairs that we didn't spot and got stuck in there for an hour while we dissected the chair and got her back out and she's fine now! Haha, good luck!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

OK, first of all your rat wasn't traumatized. Hiding under stuff and creeping around in shadows is what rats are born to do. It's way more natural for a rat to live under your tub or in a wall than in a cage. The cage actually might be more traumatic than behind the wall. So no worries there. As to having more energy to burn off, she was very likely pretty active on her great adventure and now is used to operating at a higher energy level. Like a marathon runner develops more stamina free ranging rats are more active than cage rats.

Get hands on right away. Show this rat lots of love and get her bonded to you and your family. If you have any issues do immersion sooner rather than later.

Lastly, we have had two rats that were house safe, meaning they didn't do any damage. Amelia our current princess of the indoor universe spends most of her waking time exploring the darker corners of our home and she has even learned to evaporate when the rat phobic wife comes home and slink through the shadows until she can find someone rat friendly to put her back into her cage. Rats that are indoor safe and competent aren't necessarily the norm, but they are really cool. If I let Amelia out now, she'll likely turn up in about 8 hours for dinner time and then she might just evaporate again until bed time around midnight or if she gets all snuggled in someplace or decides she has something important to do while we are sleeping she'll come back tomorrow for breakfast. Some days she'll be in a playful mood and turn up every half hour or so to check in and if I take a nap, she might just pry my mouth open or jump up and down on my head until I wake up. She's a very independent rat indoors and absolutely as competent as any house cat. So you never know, the experience your rat went through might not turn out to be all bad for you in the long run. Personally, if my other rat wasn't destructive indoors and the wife wasn't rat phobic, I'd retire the cage all together.

Unfortunately, my other rat is an insurance liability, she eats wires and I let her out the other day when I was napping. She decided to crawl under my blanket and nap next to me... so rather than find an easy opening she just chewed a hole through the blanket and snuggled in. Think King Size blanket... now with improved ventilation. I love that my rat wanted to snuggle with me, but overall she's done hundreds of dollars in damage while free ranging. If your runaway learns to be a stealthy house safe rat she'll be lots of extra fun for your family and don't worry rats never get lost. And well bonded rats always come back.


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## Anasko (Jun 18, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your answers. 
I will read up on immersion and get to it. Right now Pixie is very skittish and doesn't let me touch her. She does accept treats off of a spoon not far from the cage door. Any time I reach for her she scampers into the far corner and hangs on the wall. That makes me think she may be traumatised, besides is that all food and water we offere while she was away was in the trap which she never entered so potentially she had no water or food for a week before we found her in the tub. I wonder if she was hiding behind the wall by choice or because she couldn't find a way out.
I have set up a lot of different sleeping places in the cage so being on the wheel was her choice. Last night all three of them slept in the dome so I guess she bonded well with her friends. I'll go boil an egg and see if she gets interested. 
We didn't have a chance to bond before she escaped so I do hope we will find a way to become friends ) 

Thank you for all your advice! Truly appreciate!


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## Anasko (Jun 18, 2013)

Mitsy said:


> try immersion training
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Hi guys! Thank you again for being such enthusiasts and helping out us begginers! I read what i could find on immersion and I am very excited to implement this method this weekend. I hope some of you with experience will find the time to help me out because I am still a bit foggy as to what to do exactly.

My rats are from a pet store, I have no idea how old they are and if they have had any experience with humans. 
Rainy is super curios and obviously dominant, she is the one who bit my kids once each but I choose to believe it is because she thought the fingers were food.

Alissa is younger, came a few days later, she is submissive, squeaky and easily frightened. She comes out to the cage door only after a long while watching Rainy taking treats from me. 

Pixie is the runaway rat who is truly neurotic as of right now and is not accepted by the other two.

The rats are supposed to be my 6 and 9 year old kids' pets. I am a 100% willing to participate but I want my kids to feel personal strong connection with their pets. Ever since we brought the rats home the kids spend hours in the bathroom playing with them but I am not sure the rats bonded with them or accepted them as part of the pack. At least there was no biting anymore but not much affection either.

In addition we have a cat. She seems very curious but cautious about the rats. In one encounter Rainy lounged towards Misty, our cat, and Misty darted away. I am not sure if she got bitten or just freaked out. Before the rats have a free rein of the apartment I need to know rats and the cat can coexist. 


So this weekend is the rat weekend. Should we all go get locked up with all rats? Should I do it by myself? Should we take turns? When and how kids get into this equation? Do my kids need to spend time with each rat or only with one that is "their own"? When and how do we introduce the cat to the rat or visa versa, properly?

Another issue if you don't mind clarifying is this: Rainy picked a place for a potty (I put a litter box there) and uses it 70% of the time but the other two pee in their bed but take their snack into the potty and groom themselves there. Could you direct me to where I can learn how to change this situation? I would very much like them to get potty trained )

Again, thank you so much!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm pretty sure I just responded to this on the immersion thread, or a question just like it. Check out my most recent post. I don't recall the mention of a biting rat though. You start out with this rat one on one. No kids no other rats. Kids are unpredictable and do "stupid" things fast, and biting rats can inflict serious injuries. Bring the kids in after you get past the aggression stage of immersion with this rat. Once your rat recognizes you as the alpha and you move on to bonding bringing in the kids to participate is a good idea.

No this isn't because of any theory, it's just for safety reasons. 

Immersion is a method of establishing communication and social order with a different species of intelligent animal. That's always your goal. Like adopting a child that speaks a different language. You have to get his attention, and somehow communicate that you are going to be his new parents and protect him and guide him. Depending on how screwed up your rat is from it's previous interactions with humans it isn't always easy to get through at first. A rat that's been neglected and injured by humans might even start out hostile or angry towards you. At this phase of the game your first priority is to protect yourself while you are working to reach out and make contact. After the hostilities are behind you, you work on showing the rat that you are going to be in charge by pressing the action in a playful manner, once the rat 
shows signs of wanting to be with you and being submissive or friendly you accept it into your family with lots of physical affection and treats. 

When you are in doubt pretend the rat is a child that doesn't speak English behaving that way... Set your mindset for progress and interaction, the rat responds and you respond to it on the fly. Over the course of a few to several hours you may have to change your behavior several times to correctly respond to your rats behavior. Just like working with children. When your kid is playing with matches you might want to be aggressively disapproving, ten minutes later when he's brushing his teeth you might want to be encouraging. You want your rats to understand you and you want to understand them, so don't be rigid or stuck on any particular approach. Immersion is an experience that tends to have a flow to it, lean into it but stay flexible. Sometimes it's combat, sometimes it's play, sometimes its snuggling and sometimes you get all three within half an hour. The key is to be aware and responsive to what your rat is telling you.


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## Ninjasinthetrees (May 22, 2013)

I can relate... I'm trying to figure out a new solution for free ranging my big girls. They are eating my sofa :/


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## Anasko (Jun 18, 2013)

Thank you guys! especially thank you, Rat Daddy, for all the advice. 
Our Rainy bit only once each child in the very beginning 2 weeks ago. Since then there was no incident and the kids have been spending time with the rats every day since then so we figured it was just an honest mistake. The only aggression I can see is towards the cat 

Anyway, yesterday we collected all the rats and kids and went to master bathroom for an immersion. There were a few squeaks, there were a lot of running around not a lot of interest in treats but after an hour of so I noticed that instead of running around me the rats would actually climb up on me (all over and accept a rat and some petting, which before this I would have to hold one down to stay still if I wanted to pet. Alissa made all kind of really cute noises and Rainy, who is very active would sit still for a few minutes and looked like she enjoyed the petting even though she would rather go explore. None of them groomed us back 
Oh, there was a cute moment when Rainy decided my toe nails need to be trimmed. I sqiueked and pulled away but it took 4 times before Rainy gave up. My daughter was rolling on the floor laughing 
By that time my 6 year old son got bored and left so my daughter and I kept working on calling our rats' names and handing treats out. Then we stepped out of the bathroom which we all got sick of  and moved onto the stair case. So the ratties got some exercise running up and down and also invited themselves in one of the kids' rooms which is OK, it is sparsely furnished so I wasn't worried about them being lost or getting hurt. There they truly acted like little puppies, busy exploring and then would come up to me, check in and then proceed checking things out. 
After another hour of that activity our cat Misty decided to visit.She was very nice and calm just watching from a doorway when Rainy just ran towards her and attacked! Very deliberately! Poor cat fled. After that I wrapped the session up. The rats obviously were getting tired and thirsty, so I got them back in the cage. I feel we accomplished a lot because there is no fear between people and rats any more. There is not a lot affection on the rats' part, but they come up to the cage door and don't get defensive when we try to pick them up. I will do a one-on-one sessions with each of the rats, see if that changes the situation, but I already feel very good about the results!


There are two more things I'd love to work on: potty training and that my poor cat is left alone! I was concerned the cat will be a danger to the rats but so far it is the other way around!


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## Voltage (May 15, 2013)

I don't know a whole lot about rats and cats living together but from what I've read it can go really bad really fast. One snap of that cat 's jaws and you could very well have a dead rat. Rat 's are prey animals so they are naturally cautious around bigger animals especially when it's one of their natural predators. If the cat has any hunting instincts she may very well attack at some point. Most cats will. It's probably a good idea to keep them separate and only ever let them interact while you are supervising.I imagine one of your children seeing their torn apart rat would be very traumatic if it came down to it. I know lots of people have rats and cats so it possible. But any animal can have a bad day and in mere seconds it could be too late to do anything


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## Anasko (Jun 18, 2013)

Voltage, I totally agree! But as of right now it seems that our cat is terrified by the rats! She is a very gentle cat and by observing her I can say she has only natural curiosity about the rats, no desire to attack. I hope that with time they all will learn to coexist, in the controlled environment, of course!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I suppose I'm in the unusual situation of actually having owned a part wild rat. Her name was Fluffy (not to be confused with Fuzzy Rat our true shoulder rat), and indeed she had very soft fluffy fur, but she was vicious and lethal towards other animals and people who weren't part of her pack or properly introduced.

I have up close and personal experience how wild rats deal with larger animals. Flat out - they attack! Yes the rat is smaller, but it is actually very fast and well coordinated. It will lunge at it's larger opponent and bite while rotating it's body in order to tear as much flesh as possible. At the same time it slashes with all four paws while whipping it's tail so it becomes very hard to grab. And given the opportunity it goes right for the throat or other sensitive areas. 

Chances are that very few rats have actually killed cats aside from causing lethal infections, unless they are attacking as a pack, in which case my money is on the rats hands down. In the wild rats will attack larger predators in pack formation and more than a few of those horror stories passed down from past generations are true. Luckily, rats don't usually see humans as predators, until they prove themselves otherwise.

Individually, when it comes to wild rats their survival strategy isn't so much to kill potential predators it's to make sure that any predator thinks long and hard before messing with them a second time. There is a pretty popular Russian You-tube vid where a large male wild rat comes upon a group of feral cats and the cats make a point of getting out if its way. This is not a freak event. Most feral cats will avoid adult rats like the plague.

Fluffy lived outdoors in our yard and neighborhood two summers ago and some of the older feral cats still won't come near my yard.

Now don't freak out, Fluffy was a great rat and bonded to and protective of her family. She was 100% kiddie safe with my daughter and never killed her roomie, even when she came close and had good reason. If Rainy has those wild rat instincts, your just going to have to be careful around your cat, who will hopefully learn to keep it's distance and for sure be cautious around strangers with her. Wild type rats don't get human friendly they bond to their pack, everyone who isn't pack isn't a friend. 

Even my most domestic rat Fuzzy Rat hates my parrot and has attacked it a couple of times. Fuzzy Rat tried to make friends and the parrot bit her head, in less than the split second it took for the parrot to chomp down and kill my rat Fuzzy Rat bit the parrot's tongue... there was an awful squeek-awk sound and the parrot recoiled bleeding from inside it's mouth. From that day forward Fuzzy Rat goes after the parrot whenever she sees it. So maybe it's just that Rainy has had a bad experience with a cat.

My parrot was wild caught and has some serious personality problems so there was no way I was going to try and get him together with Fuzzy Rat. And my part wild was so fast and so lethal I wouldn't ever try to put it together with any kind of other animal. But if someone has some ideas on how to do it I suppose it would be to somehow convince Rainy that Misty is also part of it's pack.

As to the rest of your immersion experience... that's how I like them to go. You started in a closed space and got bonding to happen you did some exploring with your pack which is great fun for both human and rat. You are starting to see your rats as much more than small animals and they are seeing you as pack mates and hopefully their alphas. And btw, trimming your nails is grooming behavior! Rats really don't know how to groom humans and sometimes come up with some painful or otherwise strange ideas, like cleaning your teeth. They are trying to be nice but you aren't a rat so they have to adapt to let you know they love you too. Sometimes love hurts.

As always, I love reading stories about successful immersions and you are most welcome. I find doing immersions to be one of the most wonderful bonding experiences you can have with any animal. Those that start out most horrific usually turn out to be among the most rewarding. But there's something almost magical that happens when you bond with your rats and form a new family (pack). It's so rare in our lives to adopt a new family member and experience the joy of first love. And I dare say, I think it's magical for the rats too when they realize you are reaching out to them and love them too. Even if it's only second hand, it's fun for me to participate in immersions and play coach. Naturally, I always have to share the credit for the theory and the practice with the amazing Fuzzy Rat who still reaches out and communicates with me every day. Mostly now she needs to be picked up and lifted to her food dish and water bottle and carried everywhere she wants to go, but I still get my cherished rattie kissies whenever I help her out. She's still the true shoulder rat she's always been even if she can no longer ride on shoulder or run around with the kids, now she naps amongst the clovers when we go outside and sniffs the breeze for scents of her younger days. And no small credit goes to a pack of wild rats that persistently tried to immerse my daughter and taught me how it was really done by rats. It took me a while to get it, but now it's lots of fun to share it with you.

Keep working with your rats every day, teach them their names and to come, keep challenging them to be more and they will amaze you. 

And congrats on your first successful immersion!


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