# You guys need to get rid of the breeding section



## MagicalLobster (Jun 30, 2007)

No, seriously. You know why? Because people come in here saying they want to breed, right? They could have everything completely perfect, and everyone here comes up with reasons for why it's still wrong. Some veterenarian with 15 years experience could want to be a breeder, could buy two lab rats brought up in a completely sterile environment, could check every flaw known to man but you'd still get some jack on this website telling them why they're doing it wrong. 

But you want to know something? You aren't that freaking special. You have no right going out of your way to tell people that they are irresponsible or wrong because they want to breed. I hate to tell you, HATE IT. But, this whole conspiracy about petstores has got to stop too. "But wait, they have diseases and are treating animals horribly. And they don't have pedigrees like breeders!" Well, the only pet store I've ever encountered that with was petco and I stay away from them. Not only that, but the one I shop at handles the rats every day and uses great bedding. Not only that but they get them from breeders, and I've not once encountered a disease from them. Not only that, tell me you've not once had a medical problem with a breeder rat. Things happen, rats don't live very long, I'm sorry. And for the record, there are _good_ pet stores out there.

Yet, we still have all these people saying the same things over and over, despite the topic. Someone posts pictures of baby rats that were just born asking to see how cute they are and it's like a timebomb of "Pedigrees! Animal Cruelty! Pet Stores! Mycoplasma! You suck at living! You're irresponsible." Sometimes, knowing nothing about what happened, people will criticize them and tell them they're wrong. The breeder could be the god of rat breeding for all the critic knew but because rat babies were born it was wrong. But who cares, everyone who's on a rat forum should and do know everything about breeding right? Wrong.

Which brings me to my next point, where I defend what I just argued. All these people who slap two rats (that could be brother and sister for all they know) together in a cage with pine bedding and fifteen wire floors, not knowing what the **** they're doing, you're just as guilty. I'm talking to the people who know nothing about what they were doing but still get mad when someone calls them out on it. The jackass 12 year old who decides "I want cute rat babies and my mom doesn't care so why not make the two have them!" You should be beaten with a hose. Seriously, if you're asking "Can I leave the male in with the female after the babies are born?" as a serious question, you aren't ready to breed and you shouldn't be mad when someone who has experience says something about it. The problem, however, is that this person gets so offended that it makes them even more detemined to breed, just to prove to themselves that yes, rats make babies if you put opposite genders together. Kinda like reverse psychology, and then the people who were just trying to help made a freaking hurricane of argument and caused what they're trying to morally get rid of. *Telling someone they're doing it wrong will make them want to prove you wrong, which will make someone make a comment like "You're immature" or "you're inexperienced" which will make them want to breed more to prove to themselves that they're right...and to piss the other person off.*

Therefore, the breeding section should be gone. There's too much grey area to be argued and it takes way to much out of the forum. There's always going to be somebody who wants to breed, regardless of experience, and there's always going to be someone to argue it, once again, regardless of experience. Too many variables and everyone gets mad at each other. It's stupid.

Mom: What your father says is false.
Father: What your mom says is true.

Who's right? If he's false for saying she's true than it means the mom is false, but if the mom is false than it means the father is true...

No right argument. And I don't stand by either side, but just get rid of the forum. The community can't handle the responsibility of having a breeding section.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

My my my... who peed in your Cheerios this morning? :?

The reason it's here is for people who have mistakes. Mistakes happen, especially with pet stores, and mis-sexing, etx. It's titled 'think before you breed'. Most of us here are not breeders, we only know through what we've read or accidental litters. The advice we give would still stand, for even the veterinarian. Seek a responsible breeder and have them train you on the ins and outs.

I think it serves a purpose. It's not perfect. But it's necessary.

So take a deep breath and calm down.


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## MagicalLobster (Jun 30, 2007)

I'm calm, haha. Just concerned.

In response to that, you should have a forum for accidental litters and not people who are "thinking" about breeding.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Well, this title is better than it's old title.

This one, at least, seems more like an admonishment.

"Accidental Litters" did come up as a possible name, but this is the one that was picked.

I suppose it's so that we don't make people think they aren't allowed to be here if it's crossed their mind. *shrug*


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## Hippy (Jul 23, 2007)

I think everything in their was well said, but taking away the breeding board, I wouldn't do that because all the questions would then flood the General rats section or Rat Behavior.


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## MagicalLobster (Jun 30, 2007)

Hippy said:


> I think everything in their was well said, but taking away the breeding board, I wouldn't do that because all the questions would then flood the General rats section or Rat Behavior.


Very good point. I guess making it a rule not to post potential breeding topics is out of the question. Not to mention out of my power. Oh well, it's the same as when I said that people aren't special enough to criticize other people. I'm not special enough to criticize the forum setup.


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## Mana (Apr 22, 2007)

I've been wondering why this forum is on here as well. I also don't know why this particular name was chosen, because honestly, it's not all that much better. I think I mentioned this somewhere else, but people who do breed rats do think about it. They think "Gosh, my rats are so wonderful and sweet and healthy, I'll let them have babies! My friends all say they would want some babies, so I already have homes for them and everything!"

I would very much support another name change to Accidental Litters or Oops Litters or something like that - having a forum on here specifically for "breeding" makes people feel comfortable coming here and talking about the rats they're breeding or wanting to breed. And when they come up against everyone here who is against what they're doing, they just get defensive and offended and leave. I highly doubt many minds have been changed by hearing what everyone has to say about why it's wrong for them to breed their rats.

Honestly though, not everyone is like that about breeding. I have seen a couple (reputable) breeders around here, as least as being logged in (TEK comes to mind specifically) - and I doubt anyone is going to jump down their throats for breeding. The problem is only when people are breeding rats of unknown lineage, unknown genetics, unknown health.. because they have no idea what they're breeding! There are so many health problems in rats, so many things that could be passed on, just because a rat seems healthy after having it for a few months doesn't mean it has no health problems to pass on to babies. Plus, there are quite a lot of unwanted rats out there. There are several people on here who run or work with rescues, and I'm sure they can attest to that far better than I can.

As far as the other forums filling up with posts about breeding rats, maybe put a sticky somewhere, here and in Rat Health maybe, outlining exactly why it is not a good idea to breed. Title it "Read this before breeding" or something.. I don't know.. I just very strongly support another name change to this forum to Oops Litters or something of that nature.


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## Hippy (Jul 23, 2007)

Mana said:


> I just very strongly support another name change to this forum to Oops Litters or something of that nature.


I agree, but this should now be in the suggestions part of the board, eh? Ha, I don't know about Oops litters, but something along those terms, and maybe a sticky of warning or read before you post in the breeding section would be good. Thus is people post and someone decides to tell them straight out how they feel about the situation, then we can remind them that it mentions in the BEFORE YOU POST sticky, that people here are touchy about breeding, have your facts straight and learn and cope with how people will respond. Something like that. 

-shrug-


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## MagicalLobster (Jun 30, 2007)

Plus, along the lines of what Mana said (who made very good points by the way), the sticky topic that says "Why you shouldn't breed" is a horrible name. "Think before you breed" seems like a better name to me. It isn't so one way about the argument and it sort of neutralizes everything thats going on. 

Oh, and I liked what Mana said about how telling people they are wrong won't change their opinion or make them not want to breed anymore. I've always felt that, in any of those situations, people telling the potential breeder they're wrong just makes them want to do it more.


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

MagicalLobster: Whilst you are entitled to your opinion, starting a topic like this in the forums isn't the way to express it. If you have any problem with any of the format in these forums, the person to take it up with is Ratman. Thanks.


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