# Wilder the flower child



## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Does everyone's rat eat flowers? I never thought about rats eating flowers until I had Wilder. The past few times the kid has been near flowers, he chews a chunk out of it. Then freak and worry he will die, because the flower might be poisonous or it might have pesticides. Does anyone know any flowers that are safe and good for him or is that a bad idea all together? I was thinking about growing some near his outdoor rat run if I can find some that are okay for him.

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Pictures of us at the park today<3

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Cuddle bug! He loves being pet.
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## mimsy (Jun 8, 2014)

I would only do them if you grow them yourself and know there is nothing on or in the ground they are grown that is unsafe. One's that I give mine would be rose hips, pansy's, echinacea and dandelions that I grow (I don't really want the dandelions haha). I also grow lots that would be poisonous-rhododendrons, foxglove, monkshood. 

Wilder is looking good. He's gotten so big compared to when you found him.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Haha I was thinking about the dandelions must be okay because my sulcata eats them like no other. I've never thought about rats eating flowers. Someone today told me that roses make her rat sick, so I worried... 
I love pansy's!

Thank you! He is getting big. It is crazy how they change before your eyes and you don't really notice until you see photos.


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

I've no idea about the flowers, Naydeen found a little plant and started eating it but like you I was worried it might be toxic or something so I stopped her. However I just had to say that Wilder Is SO CUTE!! I love how he stays so close to you, you can tell he really really loves you, like he thinks of you as his best friend in the whole world  


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## Mrs.Brisby (Jan 4, 2014)

You have a sulcata? I love tortoises. I used to have a little russian tortoise named Ivan. How big is your sulcata? Do you know how old it is? Sorry for all the questions lol. I just really like tortoises, especially sulcatas. Also, Wilder is absolutely adorable. He looks completely content in the last three pictures!


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Thank so much for the kind words.  I think I will try to grow some flowers near his cage that he can munch on if he can reach them. 

Mrs. Brisby, Sampson is a decent size big, I can still pick him up but only for a little bit. He is super heavy. He runs around the backyard. I *think* he is 20-something. I adopted him a few years ago. 

I have some pictures of him on my computer somewhere hold on..


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

I couldn't find ones on my computer, so I took some of him really fast. Sadly, unlike Wilder, Sampson couldn't care less if I lived or fell into lava. Unless, he thinks I have food for him. So he was being a grump-o and wanted me to get out of his sunlight and stop bugging him.

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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Mitsy posted this on another thread. It is the plants that are bad for rats, in case anyone else was wondering.

http://ratfanclub.org/plants.html


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## Bronte18 (Jun 2, 2014)

I love following wilders story, he really loves you and I think he is grateful you saved his life! Youv gave this we guy the life a wild rat could only dream of, a safe place to stay, the love and friendship of you and a full belly everyday  bless this little guy, and you of course  I love the pics of him, you should keep on updating us  how old is he now roughly?


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Thank you all so much :] I found him some time around the 22-26th of May. So roughly 9 weeks old now is what I am guessing. I wish I had pictures of when I first found him! Back when he had fuzzy fur. I only have pics of around the time he started opening his eyes.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

You are actually in a very interesting situation... Wild rats, my part wild rat and some domestic rats will nibble a new food or plant and then not eat any more of it several hours to a day or more to see how it reacts to their system. For the most part you can't poison them, which makes wild rats so hard to kill. Modern rat poison is actually a vitamin overdose which works slowly over time. 

Domestic rats on the other hand will often eat anything... We took our part wild rat to the park with Fuzzy Rat one day. Our part wild rat sniffed and may have nibbled the grass mushrooms but quickly moved on... Fuzzy Rat ate one and was poisoned, she almost died. She never ate another mushroom of any kind after that.

So.... if your rat is a nibble and eat more later type of rat, as a wild rat should be, you have no problem with flowers or just about anything else. He will take a nibble and if it's bad for him not eat any more... if he's the type that eats anything he sees for the first time and pigs out you have to watch our for what he finds outdoors. Fuzzy Rat always found little plants and seeds and stuff in the grass to eat, that never bothered her... She also loved to find human left overs and would fight off ants to get it, also never bothered her. Rats can eat pretty disgusting things.

Oddly Cloud our newest rat and a dumbo rex also is very choosy about what she eats for the first time. The other day she refused to eat a banana split. By the next day however ice cream was on her list of favorites. It's a peculiar genetic trait but one that's very good for a shoulder rat to have.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Rat Daddy said:


> You are actually in a very interesting situation... Wild rats, my part wild rat and some domestic rats will nibble a new food or plant and then not eat any more of it several hours to a day or more to see how it reacts to their system. For the most part you can't poison them, which makes wild rats so hard to kill. Modern rat poison is actually a vitamin overdose which works slowly over time.
> 
> Domestic rats on the other hand will often eat anything... We took our part wild rat to the park with Fuzzy Rat one day. Our part wild rat sniffed and may have nibbled the grass mushrooms but quickly moved on... Fuzzy Rat ate one and was poisoned, she almost died. She never ate another mushroom of any kind after that.
> 
> ...


That explains why he doesn't eat food with me!! One of the things I look forward to with all my pets is our bond over food. haha Wilder barely ever takes a nibble of anything, except flowers. I was so shocked because I thought rats ate everything. The only thing he will actually fully eat that I give him is pumpkin seeds. Explains why he was so difficult to wean as a baby....


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## Bronte18 (Jun 2, 2014)

Awww still a baby then , how precious! I couldn't take my boys out of the cage at 9 weeks old! Right enough I just got them at that age and they were rescues, never been handled before, they would freak out never mind to the park! My lot love Daisy's... I pick them in my garden as my grass or flowers aren't treated. I put the top part of the cage out there once and let them all have a sniff (my older 4) and they devoured the Daisy's, every now and then I'll stick a couple in and they really enjoy them


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

If I ever got another rat I'd want it to be rescue! That is so cool you adopted some. I will have to find some daisys. I wish you had a picture of the cage decorated with flowers. That's something I'd want t o see.


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## Roonel (Jan 27, 2014)

Wilder is such a cutie-pie! I want a wild-looking (agouti-type) rat next time.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

My daughter always freaked out when our part wild rat wouldn't eat the treats she gave her for special occasions. If our wild child didn't recognize the food it was nibble and stop... The next day however, after the food was tested and passed muster she ate it just fine....

So when my 5 year daughter bought our rat a cupcake as a treat the rat refused it, until the next day when she finished the leftovers with me. And by the way vanilla cup cakes were different from chocolate cup cakes and from muffins... every flavor had to be tested individually. Variety may be the spice of life for humans and some domestic rats but watching Cloud pass up a banana split was a sad thing. Max who is a bread for food rat and eats anything was nose deep in it before I even put it down on the table. On the other hand now that ice cream has passed muster, Cloud won't ever make the same mistake.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Haha Your poor daughter! I bet she was crushed at first. Kids are so cute, your daughter sounds amazing. 

I just tried to give my rat some ice cream after reading this!! He almost passed it up. He had a few licks then ran around and came back for a couple more licks. He only ate it off my finger though. When I offered him the cone he refused.


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## Bronte18 (Jun 2, 2014)

Lol! I have a really funny video of my Casper eating I've cream but I don't know how to upload it  have you ever tried your wilder with meal worms?


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Aww I'd want to see that video! I tried giving him a mealworm once, it was the freeze dried kind and he mouthed it then let it go. My hedgehog was all about mealworms and worms. I read somewhere that the roof rats don't eat many bugs, they are more into fruits and nuts and seeds. So maybe that is why? Does your rat eat mealworms??


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

"If growing up means it would be beneath my dignity to climb a tree, I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

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Still eating/chewing on flowers....
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<3
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## Bronte18 (Jun 2, 2014)

Ohh I see! I've only ever encountered a wild rat once, I used to live in a flat and we had a mop outside our house that we would use sometimes for cleaning the close. It hadn't been used in a while so it was all dried in but my dad seen something moving and when we investigated it was a pregnant rat who had made a nest, we had to take the mop away because there had been floor cleaner used on it. The rat ran off, but we got a box and filled it with nesting stuff and food, surely it came back but after a while it just dissappeared, must have had it's baby's. I tried to catch it once so we could help her but she ran right over my shoulder and was so fast! Anyways, yes my rats LOVE meal worms! I also have a video of them eating meal worms. You could pm me your email address and I could email them if it works ! Unless someone can tell me how to upload a video lol? I tried once but it just dissappeared!


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

I would have died if I saw a pregnant rat! Yelling at it "let me save you!!" while completely stressing it out.... I have backwards thinking sometimes. haha But that must have been so cool to how fast she runs. Wilder runs around really fast on my bed, but when I see his rat family at the barn they would kick his butt in a race! I'll PM you now. I must see these videos!


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## Bronte18 (Jun 2, 2014)

I was the same! I felt really bad about it if I hadn't rushed it we could have probably set up a trap, keep it in a cage and let it give birth safely and then release it again. It was the middle of winter aswell  poor babies! Hope they made it! They would be dead by now though even if they did that was a good number of years ago!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I love the outdoor pics of Wilder... Aside from the biting hazard my part wild rat posed to strangers, she was one of the brightest and sweetest rats we've ever owned. She was very much like a tiny pet wolf... There's a special spark wild animals lose if bred in captivity too long. I honestly suspect that a local breeder dumped her in the feeder bin because he/she was back crossing to wild on purpose and she was surplus. She was most likely already at least a second generation back cross because she already had domestic coloration and just about every other first cross I've seen looks wild type...

One of my first practical experiences with immersion was when I took my daughter to the zoo on their late night. It was getting dark and a pack of wild rats was forraging the bushes in front of the zoo as we were going back to the car... My daughter wanted to get Fuzzy Rat a friend and she decided she would just take home a wild rat (she was 6 years old) Knowing how fast wild rats are I decided to let her try... I'm guessing she smelled like Fuzzy Rat. Instead of running away more and more wild rats came out of the bushes and started "playing with her". They would run across her path, practically jumping over her feet and then run off into the bushes again as soon as she went after one, another distracted her... It was quite amazing to watch as more and more rats just appeared and disappeared. They were absolutely NOT being aggressive, it was the engage, reply, respond technique I used for my immersion techniques. And I got a chance to see actual wild rats do it with a small human that most likely smelled like a female rat. I really would have loved to see what would have happened if my daughter sat down... if they would have tried to groom her... But I'm not actually the worlds worst dad, and I know my daughter would have eventually snatched a rat to take home and that would have ended very badly... In fact with so many rats surrounding her, her chances of grabbing one were already getting way too good... So I had to stop the game....

Wilder was adopted as a pup... as has every wild rat that has socialized well with humans that I know of. When my part wild rat attacked, she flew into a ball of claws and fangs and she didn't bit once she tore up her target with several very fast bites. She actually chased the stray cats out of our yard when she was living outdoors for the summer. I only once saw my part wild rat freak out and it was literally scary. I pulled her out of a hiding spot she liked and she started flailing around and snapping so fast I couldn't tell the head from the tail and dropped her... As I wasn't bit, I'll take it that was just a warning, but after seeing it, and just to be clear, she could have hurt me a lot like she tore up my neighbor's arm... (think white bath towel soaked red in blood).. I'll also add one other footnote, when we play fought with her she would lunge at my face and lay a dozen mock bites on my nose and around my eyes before I could swat her off. That was her idea of play fighting, not to mention she could leap from my desk to my face... Again, no blood... but if she was serious, by six weeks old she could have blinded me.

It's not that older wild rats can't be socialized, it's just way to dangerous to try it. Wilder is a human family member because he loves his humans and is very strongly pack bonded to them, not because he's helpless and dependent like you might imagine a pet being. 

I think with the way this thread is going, it's important to remind everyone that wild rats are dangerous and should not be trapped or cornered, I've even talked to some hillbilly kids that claim they saw rats attack in pack fashion when they went to the dump to shoot them. So if you go after one rat you might wind up attacked by several.

Sometimes rat moms discard some pups and you find them laying out somewhere to die, sometimes rat nests get disturbed and the mom's run off. Sometimes wild rats get into the house and you get wildling halfbreeds. These are good candidates to socialize into your family if you really want a "pet" wild rat... but if you don't get them as pinkies or fuzzies and put in a whole lot of time and love before they get independent they are likely to grow up to be nightmares with sharp teeth. And as most wildlings are one owner or one family rats, I wouldn't suggest adopting one from anyone else. If you find an adult wild rat, and having had a part wild rat, leave it alone. It's not a matter of whether you can socialize it, which you most likely can, it's a matter of whether you will survive the process.... 

That said, the history of wild rats and humans bonding is long. There is an ancient rat temple in India where vast numbers of humans and rats interact peacefully (black rats), and witches (old ladies) were burned for having wild rat familiars (pets). And Victorian rat baiters sold rat pups to Victorian ladies to be raised as pets. So even the current fancy started with wild rats, both black and brown species. 

If wilder tasted ice cream from your finger he really trusts you, but once he realizes ice cream is safe for him, it's never going to be safe from him again. 

Black rats AKA roof rats were among the first to be domesticated by the Victorians. They lost out to the brown rat during WWI and the Spanish Flu as the brown rat was chosen for medical research, bread commercially and developed more appealing color morphs and by the way made great pets. But brown rats are very limited in tropical and other hot climates whereas black rats can stand more heat. As the fancy has moved far from it's origins in cooler European climates I think there is a niche for black rats again in areas where it's too hot for brown rats without A/C. It's been about 100 years since the black rat dropped out of the rat fancy and rats like Wilder make the point that there just may be a place and a time for a come back. If a black rat can be a shoulder rat, there's no reason it can't be a great indoor pet too. I suspect it would take a few generations to get a strain that would be more domestic than wild, but with all of the humans living in tropical areas these days it's worth the work for a rat breeder who lives in a hot climate to get started on this kind of a project. I might note that there was actually a green morph of the black rat once, it was never distributed and became extinct around the time or WW I when the black rat disappeared from the hobby and the brown rats wiped out the black rats in most of England.

One last footnote... Wild brown rats kill and eat wild black rats, use extreme caution when bringing brown rats and black rats together... Sometimes it works a treat, other times the black rat becomes the brown rat's treat. Just a heads up if no one has mentioned it before.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Thank you ratdaddy! You know so much, and I love your stories. Haha I hope I never go to a zoo and have a bunch of wild rats all around me. I probably wouldn't respond as well as your daughter. HahahaWilder was left in the middle of the barn and had a scar behind his ear. He also has two different eyes.One is a little squinty and the other is more popped out? Like a normal rat from what I've seen. So I am not sure if his mom left him to die or what happened. I am soooo thankful he hasn't bit me or anyone else yet. I am prepared for it the day it comes because it might. Haha. I know he is wild and that he was wild when I found him. So I've prepared myself for the struggles I picture having with him.I read the tiny Tim thread before joining this forum, so I saw that the two different species rats CAN be friends, but it not something I felt I was ready to risk. My dad also isn't a fan of rats and didn't want me to get another, after my research I figured it wasn't really needed in this case either. I have a question for you! I am considering getting him neutered. I made a thread before about it, I just want your opinion. I know you aren't for it, but what are the pros and cons in Wilder's case?I completely agree with you about Wilder being a one human rat. I could never rehome him. He means so much to me. Even if wilder turns crazy and aggressive! Haha. The only way he will ever not be with me is if I die or he leaves me one day.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Oh! Wilder play fights me! Sometimes I get scared he is serious but it never hurts or leaves a mark. Luckily, he doesn't do it to me face! Haha. I'd probably freak. He goes mostly for my hands if I am sleeping in bed. Or he goes crazy "fighting" my hair. Even more when it is braided. It is so funny looking. He starts jumping around and charging me.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

So far there's no objective evidence that wild rats adopted as pets benefit from being neutered. Wild rats are always more agile and competent and have the potential to do serious harm because they tend to fight harder and bite repetitively rather than only once. But this is a matter of potential. And all rats have the potential to bite. If we neutered every rat with the potential to bite there would be no intact rats left.

As you work with Wilder, you will grow to understand him and most likely will find certain traits that present issues. For example he may not be good in crowds or he may not like children etc... or he may love crowds and love children... but I'd definitely keep him away from grabby toddlers. In any case if he does get to a stage where he gets pushy, you will have to push back to maintain order in your pack, but that may not happen and simple rat management techniques work well on wild rats because they tend to be very sensitive to your behavior. My part wild evaporated as soon as I raised my voice, I never had to bop he, just raising my voice was already traumatic to her. So don't get too far ahead of yourself and expect the worst. With the relationship you and Wilder have I don't foresee any real problems.

Also, I've never heard of a vet with any experience on black rats. They are a different species than brown rats and for the most part even a good vet is going to be writing the book as he goes along. The less invasive procedures you put Wilder through the better off he may be. And the surgery itself may be very traumatic to a wild rat. Tiny Tim is doing fine intact as are most of the male wild rats I've heard of that had good involved and concerned owners. Wild rats need special care and understanding, they shouldn't be confused with domestic rats, but that's the real fun and challenge you are facing...

Some time back there was someone soliciting money to neuter part wild rats and they were keeping the rats before finding them forever homes until they were neutered... This was an awful idea. Wild rats bond as small pups, maintaining them away from their forever homes will make it many times harder for them to bond with humans so the neuter may be necessary, but as that poster wrote in their experience wild or part wild rats they have treated this way never bonded properly anyway. There is a very small window of opportunity to safely bond with a wild rat, and you made it under the wire. 

As with Tiny Tim, Wilder may bond with a brown rat pup if you do it young enough, but most likely after he's grown he's going to see a brown rat as a threat. Again this is a window of opportunity issue.

Not to offend anyone, but most aggression issues with rats are caused by mistreatment, neglect or mishandling by their humans. Mistreatment is obvious, neglect is a matter of degree and mishandling is not maintaining control of their rats when they start to show signs of alpha confusion and letting it get out of hand. With Wilder you have a strong bond so just keep building on it and you will avoid most of the problems other people have. Remember, Wilder is a special rat and will require special care.

And yes, if Wilder has some minor deformities, he was most likely ejected from his nest by his mom. Mother rats often have more pups than they can care for and cull the babies that they feel are less perfect than the others. Some kill and eat their young and others seem to leave them where humans can find them. It seem that many (if many is applicable with such a small sample) rat pups that humans raise just turn up mysteriously left on doorsteps... It makes you wonder...

Best luck.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Wilder, my sister and I made a last minute trip to the beach last night and ended up getting a hotel room. This was Wilder's first time at the beach (he has been to the river twice.) I think he really liked it at night. He was running around and kept bringing me trash. He also tried the sand, I am not sure if he liked it or not... During the day he didn't run around though. He either sat on my lap or next to it/running around me but under my zip up so no one could see him. 

Carrying trash and trying to shove it down my shirt....
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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Roof rats (theoretically) can take a lot more heat than Brown rats as they often prefer to live in trees than in burrows. People I know from Central America talk about them actually living between the lamination of their roofs. 

How much heat a black rat can take is one of those things we don't actually know anymore. So just watch for the warning signs.... drooling, and going soft and squishy and laying flat... But to be honest those are warning signs with brown rats, black rats can be different...

The telling historical footnote from when England had both varieties in competition was that brown rats would live in the cellars of warehouses while roof rats would live in the rafters and top floors. This kept them apart for a while and kept the brown rats from exterminating the roof rats for some time. But as we know our brown rats are clever and I suspect winter didn't afford the black rats much protection and the brown rats eventually wiped the black rats out.

So, supposedly Wilder should be fine where brown rats cant stand the heat, but again you are in uncharted waters.

Otherwise it's cool to see another rat at the beach. We always carried a spray bottle along with us when we took Fuzzy Rat out in summer to cool her off when temps went over 82 degrees. I always thought it would be nice to have a rat that could take heat better... If you can, try and make a note of the temperatures Wilder can tolerate. It would be nice to add some accurate information to the black rat knowledge base after 100 years.

Principally, because Fuzzy Rat was an only rat for the first 5 months of her life, we took her along everywhere we went... It's what started us shoulder ratting and made her the supreme shoulder rat she became. I'm seeing a direct parallel with Wilder. 

Honestly, my advise might be a little biased because I've always suspected that roof rats might actually make better shoulder rats than brown rats because of their better eyesight, temperature tolerance and arboreal nature. But as there are so few in domestic situations and no one has actually tried taking one outdoors before you took Wilder out, it's something no one has been able to prove one way or the other. So, keep in mind, my own curiosity might get ahead of my better judgment.

Still, it's great to see another rat having a day out at the beach... Fuzzy Rat loved the beach and even jumped into the lake and went swimming with the kids. Rumor has it roof rats don't much like water like brown rats do... but again, Wilder is the first roofie anyone has taken to the beach in our lifetime as far as anyone knows.

The few remaining references regarding roof rats were that they were highly prized in the fancy back in the late 1800's. They were even judged in competitions and there was even a green morph developed by a certain breeder. With the onset of World War I and the Spanish Flu, there isn't much information as to what took them out of the fancy. But a recent effort in the UK to bring them back indicates that they are more difficult to breed and maintain successfully. They apparently need a larger gene pool than brown rats do to stay healthy from one generation to another.. But again the rats that were used in the program were from a museum that had maintained the same group for decades and not from true wild blood.

I have strongly suspected that the reason black rats were so popular among the Victorians was that they were actually more easily adapted to a domestic lifestyle than brown rats and perhaps even made better pets before domestication. But there's been no way to prove this theory before Wilder turned up. So on one hand I'm eager to find out what Wilder's limits are, on the other I'm afraid you are working with a very rare animal, that no one knows very much about, that would be a real loss if something happens to him. 

I might note, none of my shoulder rats ever brought stuff to me when we were outdoors. This is an interesting behavior. 

Black rats are basically tree rats, so we would think of them as competing with squirrels rather than brown rats. Squirrels tend to carry stuff around to build more elaborate nests and hide food for winter. The American pack rat species are also big collectors of things... more so than our brown rats. So I'm actually not surprised that Wilder collects stuff and brings it to you, if that's what he's doing. But again, we're in uncharted territory here. 

The domestication of brown rats depends on air conditioning in much of the world. If you live in a tropical area and you don't have A/C it's difficult to maintain brown rats. Supposedly, black rats have no such limitation... (again not proven yet) but if they can be true shoulder rats, something not many brown rats can do, I see them as being the rats of choice if you live in places where it gets too hot from brown rats. And as more and more people move to hotter climates, there very well may be a future of the black rat in human households. I suppose what we learn from Wilder will give us a better idea of what is to come.


I really should add this footnote for folks reading along... Our Fuzzy Rat, Max and Cloud are/were true shoulder rats, highly trained and experienced with going outdoors, Wilder is also a very very special case, and is likely well on his way to being a true shoulder rat too. Just about the best way to get your rat killed or lost is to take it outside. Do enjoy the photos and the stories, but do not try this at home with your own rats without training them properly and learning how to handle them outdoors first.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Thank you Ratdaddy. He normally just drinks water out of my hand or off my finger or my water bottle cap when we are out and about. He doesn't like water from what I've seen, I tried to put him in the shower once and it was not a pleasant time for him. I will try to bring a hand held fan for him on hot days, since I don't think he would like a spray bottle. That is a good idea though. That day at the beach was gloomy, so we didn't get the heat too much just sat and enjoyed the view. It is so cute that Fuzzy Rat swam with your kids. 

I will try and find more tree branches for his cage. It is funny you say he is more like a squirrel because his favorite thing to do it climb trees! Everything you say pretty much describes him perfectly. 

I didn't think anything of him bringing me trash, he did it at the park once also at night and sometimes in my room he will carry stuff around. I sometimes let him keep it whatever he finds in his cage.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Today a group of us went to a historical farm. When we walked by the bird cage area Wilder started sniffing around like crazy. That is when I noticed 3 or 4 adult roof rats in a corner at the top of the cage. I see roof rats often at night, because they are always around the stables. This time I was just standing there staring at them and they were staring right back... They were just not that adorable. I kept looking at my little Wilder thinking they look exactly the same!! Yet, completely different. Sure Wilder is baby so he is smaller, but other than that they were identical. How can I think one is not cute and one is the cutest thing in the world?

All the kids thought he would look cool with an Acorn hat.
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## Little Bit (Jul 25, 2014)

Awwww! Wilder is adorable.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Little Bit said:


> Awwww! Wilder is adorable.


Thank you kindly!


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## Tiffisme45 (Jun 22, 2014)

Wilder is too cute! its soo neat and informing reading what you and RatDaddy have to say


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Tiffisme45 said:


> Wilder is too cute! its soo neat and informing reading what you and RatDaddy have to say


Thanks  Ratdaddy is amazing. He is my go to person. He has helped me so much.


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## Ohrats! (Jul 26, 2014)

Very cute pics


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Before Wilder and yourself coming here, I don't think any of us ever heard of a black rat or even a wild rat becoming a true shoulder rat. I wish there was more I could do to help, but Wilder is breaking new ground and well into uncharted territory. I think if black rats ever become available they would find a good home in the fancy again, but without rats like Wilder re-teaching us what was forgotten 100 years ago no one would know for sure. 

Again, I'm going to restate the warning that Wilder is special. He's been raised to be a true shoulder rat and he's not a common domestic rat in any way. He was born with certain skills your rats don't have. Taking your rat outdoors is a good way to get it killed or lost if it isn't properly trained and you aren't experienced. I wrote a thread on training shoulder rats, if you are interested start there, don't just walk outside with your naive rats. Every shoulder ratter is proud of their true shoulder rat, but we don't want anyone else to get their rat killed doing the things we enjoy. 

I'm glad you are interviewing potential friends for wilder and I wish you the best luck. As wild brown rats eat wild black rats Wilder has good cause to feel nervous around them. But it has been done before with Tiny Tim, so it isn't impossible. In all reality, if it weren't for Tiny Tim we wouldn't even know that much for sure.

I think Fuzzy Rat broke new ground for true shoulder rats and Wilder may be poised to break new ground for black rats. Win lose or draw, Wilder seems to be a very special rat and this a grand experiment that requires a very special rat... and I do realize for you he's just your little buddy, like Fuzzy Rat was just our little furry friend, but to the fancy the lessons learned will be priceless.

I firmly believe black rats have a future in this fancy, mostly in hot climates, but even elsewhere. It may take time for a good ethical breeder to take on the project and find the right black rats to work with, but the day will come. Tiny Tim and Wilder are demonstrating the possibilities from a behavior aspect and bringing the day we can choose from brown and black rats closer. 

I think you might want to get in touch with Cagedbirdsinging or another nutrition expert regarding Wilder's diet. She may be helpful to you and it would be nice to get a nutrition expert up to speed on black rat diets while we have a real live black rat to work with. Being arboreal, I have to imagine they require a different diet than subterranean brown rats. And I'm not even going to go into the things we can learn about black rat health and longevity. 

From what I've read the most recent attempt to repopulate the black rat in the fancy from a long term captive strain washed out in the UK, so most likely any new strain will have to come from wild rats. I'm wondering if Isamurat might know the history of that experiment and could add it to our knowledge base. 

And from an aesthetic view point the Brits actually had a green strain of black rat going around 1900. Now they only exist in black and white photos so no one alive has ever seen one in captivity. Likely it was some ancient gene combo morph that goes with them being arboreal. Wouldn't it be cool to have green rats back?

I was there when Fuzzy Rat started to change this stodgy old fancy, and it's a real privilege to continue to work with the next generation of rats and their owners, raised in immersion and taking the fancy forward into a bright new future where fancy rats take their rightful place in human households worldwide. And it won't happen until rats get out of their cages and become family members like the other top two pets. And we all know it can be done. All of the rats on Rat Forum prove it every day of their lives, while a few special ones drive home the point.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Rat Daddy said:


> Again, I'm going to restate the warning that Wilder is special. He's been raised to be a true shoulder rat and he's not a common domestic rat in any way. He was born with certain skills your rats don't have. Taking your rat outdoors is a good way to get it killed or lost if it isn't properly trained and you aren't experienced. I wrote a thread on training shoulder rats, if you are interested start there, don't just walk outside with your naive rats. Every shoulder ratter is proud of their true shoulder rat, but we don't want anyone else to get their rat killed doing the things we enjoy.


I feel the need to highlight what ratdaddy mentions here. In all my posts about Wilder, I have yet to say that I would not and I do not advise just take any rat outside. I had a rat before Wilder who was not a shoulder rat and did NOT belong outside. Ratdaddy made a great thread about shoulder training and anyone who wants a shoulder rat should read his thread and go from there. I would HATE it if anyone read my posts and took their rat outside and then it get lost or killed.  
Thank you to everyone who takes the time to read/comment on my thread and look at Wilder's pictures! 

BTW, a green rat would be amazing!


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## bloomington bob (Mar 25, 2014)

I'd like to know more about green rats. I've only found a few brief references online.


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

Maybe it's different for wild rats, but do you ever worry about bugs getting on your rat, like catching lice or ticks or something when it is outside and interacting with all kinds of things, some of which are probably filthy? I always worry Naydeen is going to pick up some bugs in her fur and get sick and then there's going to be a lice/mite/etc outbreak in my mischief 


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