# New Rat owner and Pneumonia PLEASE HELP



## wowabjawii (Jan 10, 2010)

About 2 weeks ago I bought a young female rat from a little hole-in-the-wall pet store and what I perceived to be a very relaxed, chill rat was actually suffering from a severe upper respiratory problem. 

I went into this ownership very stupid; not researching rats enough (i had had many mice though so i figured it wasnt much different  I know..) and also buying from a very shady pet store. 

After acouple of days it progressed even worse and she would just lie around, breathing heavily and sneezing. I took her to the vet, who diagnosed her with pneumonia and gave me some Baytril drops on thursday and since I have been following directions (twice a day) and feeding her water with a mixture of emergen-c, apples, grapefruit, sunflower seeds and almonds. I have a blacklight heating lamp that stays around 81 degrees and she stays underneath it.

There hasnt been much improvement. She eats and drinks, but not enough and her breathing is getting worse. 
I won't be able to take her to the vet for acouple of days but i don't know what I should do until then- if anything.
Although I havent had her very long...I absolutely love Na'avi. She's beautiful and such a sweet heart and I'd love any advice in making her feel better.


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## zoe9 (Oct 3, 2007)

*Re: New Rat owner and Pneumonia*

Sorry to hear about your girl.

Pneumonia needs to be treated very aggressively, generally with a combination of antibiotics and the addition of an anti-inflammatory or bronchodilator to help with breathing.

I'm afraid baytril and a special diet isn’t going to cut it.

If your girl isn't responding to the baytril then you will need to get her back to the vet for ASAP for different drugs. I don't want to alarm you but if she's getting worse she may well be dead if you delay a few days.

Baytril works well with both doxycycline and zithromax so speak to the vet about adding one of those two drugs. If her breathing is very laboured ask about a steroid injection. That'll allow her to relax and breathe more easily while waiting for the new antibiotics to take effect.

Would suggest you print out this info from rat guide to take with you to show the vet.

http://ratguide.com/health/lower_respiratory/pneumonia.php

In the meantime until you get her to the vet you can see if steaming helps. Take her into the bathroom and run the shower. Do keep an eye on her though because some rats don't like to be in a steamy room. If she appears stressed remove her.

Good luck. I hope she makes it. Oh, and if she does, please look into getting her a friend.


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## wowabjawii (Jan 10, 2010)

thank you so much zoe!

i'm going to try and get a taxi ride to the vet tomorrow and talk to them about all of this and I promise if she makes it that I'll get her a friend. She deserves it


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## zoe9 (Oct 3, 2007)

Oh well done for getting her to the vet sooner. Good for you. 

I wish you both the best of luck.

As long as she hasn't given up and the vet prescribes the correct meds she should have a fighting chance.

Let us know how you get on.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Zoe, actually IF it truly is pneumonia steaming just adds to the fluids in the lungs. Its tricky to steam rats. You watch them very carefully and if they worsen get them out fast! If they seem to ease the steam is doing its job with the congestion.


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## zoe9 (Oct 3, 2007)

Oh thank you Lilspaz. I do add a caution with steaming to watch for stress and remove the rat if it displays any, but with a potential pneumonia case and fluid in the lungs I should have been more specific.

Thanks for spotting that and elaborating.


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## wowabjawii (Jan 10, 2010)

alright!

I was able to get her into the vet today and the prognosis was "sucky". They were unsure if it was truly pneumonia or a heart problem. However, she had seemed a bit better in the last 24 hrs so I decided to try everything possible and paid for the "steroid" Aminophlline injection, and emergency exam and the Baytril/Doxycycline drops (Pina-colada flavored! )

When I got home I did a deep scrub of her cage since they found lice on her also and replaced the alpine with newspaper and a towel i can wash a replace daily. (she also received a shot for the lice). Since placing her back in her cage she has been extremely stressed, jumping at every movement and sprinting around. Its a win-lose situation for me because I'm glad the steroids helped for the time being, i just wished she wasn't putting so much stress on her little heart. So i put some towels over the cage so she wouldnt be so bothered by the outside world.

I guess now we can just sit and wait right?


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## zoe9 (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks for the update.

Aminophylline is actually a bronchodilator, and unfortunately it can have side effects as described. More info can be found here:

http://ratguide.com/meds/respiratory_drugs/aminophylline.php

Hopefully she will settle down soon.

So she is on both baytril and doxycycline now?

If it is respiratory you should hopefully see some sort of improvement in the next few days.

If not, or she gets worse, the heart may well be a possibility. Some of the symptoms are similar. 

More info can be found here. 

http://ratguide.com/health/cardiovascular/congestive_heart_failure.php

If you or the vet suspect the heart you can do diagnostic dosing using lasix/enalapril. You'll know in a few days whether it's her heart or not by how she responds.

As for the lice treatment, I am assuming the vet injected her with ivermectin? If using ivermectin it's preferable to give it orally - less stressful and less chance of a bad reaction. Ivermectin though needs to be dosed at weekly intervals. Did the vet mention that? The simplest (and least stressful way) to treat mites or lice is with revolution. One drop to the skin is all that's usually required. If she does pull through I’d speak to the vet about completing her ivermectin course orally. I’d also ask if you can just switch, and give her the dose of revolution instead. 
More info can be found here:

http://ratguide.com/health/integumentary_skin/ectoparasites.php

Hope all this helps and she starts to improve soon. Good luck.


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## wowabjawii (Jan 10, 2010)

Your right, the injection was Ivermectin. However they did an injection and didnt tell me anything about a followup procedure with it... so my guess was that the injection was all? I will call tomorrow and ask.

I'll leave her alone for awhile for her to settle down a bit and will keep an eye on her for the next couple of days. Hopefully this works and I will have a healthy baby back.

Thanks Again Zoe9


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## zoe9 (Oct 3, 2007)

Yes see what the vet says. 

I've never actually used ivermectin (in any form) but I suppose for some animals, depending on what's being treated, one injection may be all that's required, but I'm pretty sure with rats the dose needs to be repeated.

I checked the RMCA drug chart (link below) and it confirms injectable Ivomec is once a week for three weeks.

Meanwhile I hope your girl is improving.


http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

You're right zoe9. Ivermectin only kills emerging adults, not any other stage, of which there is 3 a week apart. Which is why you re-dose every week, and clean like mad afterwards each week. Basically your rat is re-infested with adults every week.

Injections or oral paste of injectable ivermectin usually topically all need to be dosed once a week for 3 weeks. The OP's rat just got an injection that will end up being useless. I would advise finding Revolution. It will be safe to apply Rev after a week as the Ivermectin is gone by then.

There are places to purchase it online without a prescription if you are in the US, etc.


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## wowabjawii (Jan 10, 2010)

I'll look into the Revolution, thanks guys.

Her health was pretty good up until today...I mean its only the third day and maybe the steroids just wore off so she's going back to normal but its still pretty disheartening. This is normal right? The steroid was suppose to wear off right?

The vet said to just let her rest and fight it off on her own...
I just feel so helpless...there's nothing else I can do is there? :'(

Also, whereas whenever she would lie down and rest I would hear her wheezing and breathing very hard but now when she lays down she breathed really heavily but theres a lot less wheezing and sneezing. Is this better? 

She still has an appetite through all of this and her stools are normal.


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## wowabjawii (Jan 10, 2010)

got her a new cage too!!

she loves it... seems way more alert and is wheezing less. Still a lot but much less. Thanks again for all of the help guys!


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## Spider (Mar 19, 2007)

I'm glad you are responsible and caring, I know sometimes it can be overwhelming to watch a tiny creature suffer and not know what to do.
Stick with it, things will resolve themselves. 
Antibiotics are the KEY! you have to study the Med pages of Ratguide and other sites to stay on top, but I've heard of Rats at deaths door who recovered.
There are Great people here who will help you, so Good Luck.
Spider


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## wowabjawii (Jan 10, 2010)

Thank you Spider, that means alot 

Alright, We've got a new problem.... I'm out of meds. 

After tonight I'll be officially through the Baytril/Doxy meds and I wont have anything else to give her. She's doing SO much better...she doesnt wheeze half as much and is more active, however, she still has problems breathing from time to time. 

My question is- do I need more medicine or should I just let it die down (if it will)? I definitely don't have the money for more at the moment (her first vet bill was 164$ and put me in a bit of a financial jam) So what do I do until I CAN get the money?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

How long was the course of baytril/doxy you had her on?


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## zoe9 (Oct 3, 2007)

If it were me I'd be phoning the vet and asking for more antibiotics. If you end the course before she's completely better you run the risk of any surviving bacteria becoming resistant (as they've now been exposed to the antibiotic) and populating. Symptoms can then return shortly after the course is ended except this time the antibiotics don't work as well. It's not a good cycle to get into and it's definitely not worth the risk. For this reason I like to dose for at _least_ a week after all symptoms have gone.

A decent vet will understand the dangers of under dosing so they should just prescribe you more antibiotics without charging you another consultation fee which will help keep the costs down.

Good luck with it.


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## wowabjawii (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm so sorry guys, for some odd reason I couldn't see anyones responses unless I read it in the topic summary when I went to go add something- so I didn't know anyone had responded. My apologies.

I called the vet this morning and they're going to get together some more of the antibiotics for me to go pick up as soon as possible. Thank you though for all the the advice. 

And to lilspaz68- I've had her on the meds since the tenth. So 2 weeks?


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## DoDahTwins (Jan 24, 2010)

I'm going through the same thing with my rat Snuffy. She's got pneumonia, lost so much weight because of it, I have to forcefeed her critical care, pedialyte and a fruit cocktail to just give her enough for a few hours cause the calories she just burns off. She won't eat solid foods, basically a little bit of baby food peas on her own and then the rest is forcefed. 

Oye. I am taking her to the vet today. She was not responsive to the doxy or baytril treatment so they put her on some anti-inflamatory starting with a T.

Just keep my angel in mind! :-\


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## DoDahTwins (Jan 24, 2010)

Also, I nebulize her with saline 2 times a day. Seems to help a bit with her congestion...but it is not easy to keep her still...haha we tried to put her in the carrier alone with the steam....she freaked!!! So I have to literally hold her and pet her to sleep during the process. I will keep you updated on her visit today... *fingers crossed* I'm prayin she's just lost a few grams.... :'(


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## DoDahTwins (Jan 24, 2010)

So the vet basically said that her tumor is depleating her nutrition, its growing and she is getting smaller. The ideal option would be to get her surgery but that is a 50-50 chance survival for her...thats just the surgery and not recovery.

Augh...I told her to give her another shot of Doxy for now...gonna see a specialist on Thursday. Oye vey.

Anyone have this happen before? Both pneumonia and tumors?


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## wowabjawii (Jan 10, 2010)

DoDahTwins- I keep Snuffy and Na'Avi in my wishes ever 11:11. Goodluck with the vet and please keep me updated!!

Na'avi has been doing so much better, she's now eating more but now I have a question concerning her eating habits...
She seems to be piling up her food in her little box in the bottom of the cage. Her food is in a bowl on the second level and she's never done this before so I'm wondering why she might be doing this now. My mice seemed to do this around the same time of the year so is it just that rodents start stocking up on food for the "winter" or something?? This baffles me...


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## DoDahTwins (Jan 24, 2010)

If she lays at the bottom of the cage, that usually means that it takes too much effort to make the trip so she is moving it closer to where she lays. My rats do that when the other is sick, they bring things to eachother.

Im glad your girly is getting well, at least eating solid foods too! I wish I had that luxury. This is slowly tearing me up inside. Meef


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## wowabjawii (Jan 10, 2010)

DoDa- it seems I might be joining you in your sorrow soon...Na'avi has just taken a turn for the worse.

The red stains on her nostrils have returned and she's having difficulty sleeping again. She's still eating but since she sleeps on the 3rd level the idea of bringing the food closer just doesn't seem to make much sense....

Now is she getting worse again because she went those 3 days without the doxy/baytril meds? It just seems so strange that it would affect her so strongly when she seemed to be doing so well.


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## mink (Jun 24, 2007)

I have had great results with feeding a sick rat Baby Food, 
They always eat a ton of it because its yummy, plus it is usually loaded with vitamins and minerals. 
I would break the day into actual feedings, every 2-4 hours depending on how much they eat. 
I even got the help of my boyfriend and mother at times I had work. 
You can do this in addition to her normal food if you want. I sometimes give it as a treat to my rats normally. 

I have had 2 rats in my 10 years of owning rats that developed pneumonia. Both were elderly, I would give a younger rat much better chances.
But I spent around $200 the first time and then about $500 a few years later with the second case. I would pay any amount, but unfortunately they both got better yet never 100%. I believe they were just too old to fight it for so long. Maxine was 2.5 yrs old and Spike was 3-4yrs old. 

I had 1 rat develop a tumor on her side. She was around 1yr. old and my vet was confident he could remove it safely. It was about the size of a ping-pong ball when she had surgery. The vet used a laser pen, she got stitches and she actually left her stitches alone. The worst part was when she had the stitches taken out. She did well and lived almost another year. 


Both at once I have no experienced. 
I would think about hopefully defeating pneumonia first. 
The strain of surgery plus the body working on overdrive battling pneumonia and trying to heal at the same time just makes me wince. 
Pneumonia is very nasty as it is, I would hate for surgery to go over smoothly and then (knock on wood) have them lose the battle with pneumonia. On the other hand, post-op care should include fluids and all kinds of things to get her as stable as possible before going home. 
It could prove to be a nice boost. 

I'm sorry you guys have to face these problems, I hope everything turns out great!


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