# Oh no biology class



## Smilebud (Jul 31, 2012)

So today I found out that in biology we have to dissect a rat. A real dead rat. That was born specifically to be killed and cut open for eleventh graders to enjoy. I don't think I'll be able to look at that silky white fur or sweet little paws without crying. I almost crude just thinking about it. The thing is, if I don't do it I fail, unless it's for religious reasons. Personal beliefs arn't considered "religous" reasons. If I just don't do it I will be "refusing to do work" aka principal time. My friends suggested lying about my religion, which I am not comfortable with, or crying, which I am fine with. Any other ideas on what I can do?


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## coffeegirl (Aug 19, 2012)

Searched it up on Google, and the only thing relative was another thread on this forum:
http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?40838-Have-to-dissect-a-rat-tomorrow......


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## coffeegirl (Aug 19, 2012)

I just posted a reply but it has to be approved by the moderator... o_o Should I repost it?


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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

They make computer programs for this ... go to your principal or school board you should at least be allowed to have this option


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## ushiwakafox (Sep 4, 2012)

I understand how you're feeling, it's so hard to do that to an animal you hold special. I had to dissect a rat, a perch, and a pigeon for my Biology lab class last semester all in one sitting. It's not pleasant, it's not fun, but in a biological perspective it is interesting to see the size differences for certain organs compared to the other animals. Point being, sometimes you're going to have to do things that you don't want to do, but it's the mindset you have that will help you get through it. These rats, fish, birds, etc... are not killed out of cruelty, remember they are served to educate us. However, there is nothing wrong with not doing it too. If you are passionate enough about it you might be surprised with what you can accomplish. Try going to the councilor and explain your predicament. Try not to sound whiny or anything, go about it in a mature and formal way. 
Just think, if you're not planning on entering the biology field, then this dissection will probably be your last. I have a special love and passion for fish, but in that same love, I took a few marine biology and aquatic science courses, which also required the dissection of different fishes. It was tough at first, but now I see it as an opportunity to appreciate what I love not just on the outside but on the inside as well and see what makes them so special. If anything, I hope that helps get you through it if you decide to do so. 
Sorry for such a long reply!! ^^'


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## Smilebud (Jul 31, 2012)

Thank you guys, I'm going to have to talk to my school. Even if it doesn't work out at least I'll learn what makes my boys tick :/ we also have to do a fetal pig.. but thats another story. I'd hoped I could do this disection without being a total hypocrite and you guys helped give me some options.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

I'm not familiar with schools in Canada, but in the US, toting your parents into the principal's office will usually get you pretty far.

If you have guidance counselors, you can also start with them.


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## Korra (Dec 11, 2011)

Honestly, if you have never done a dissection like that before I would try it. I LOVE rats, as I love all animals, especially mammals, but I really love dissections too. But, that is something I have had to get really used to as I am about to enter vet school and that kinda goes with the territory. The largest organsim I have done is a cat and they were all ferals that were humanely euthanized. As long as I know the animal was not killed in an inhumane way I see it as a learning experience that will help me save more animals in the long run. 
Imagine if you took your rat in the vet to be spayed and the vet cuts her open and goes "Huh....it doesn't look like THAT in the book. What now?" Things are totally different inside the body then they are in books and book knowledge can only get you so far. 
That being said I can understand that it is not for everyone and it does make some people ill. But my advice is to just try it first and see how you feel about it.


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## Keelyrawr (Mar 7, 2012)

Our school offered a computer dissection instead of the real thing.. Just as informative, and definitely not as sad (We were doing cats, ugh) If your school doesn't offer that, I'm SURE a talk w/the Principal or a Talk with your biology teacher could fix that... Just explain the situation- And lie a little bit if you have to Lol.


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## Babs (Jan 26, 2012)

We had to do that for my junior biology class with frogs, and I flat-out refused on the day because I was a brat, but I was a brat with principles which I felt made me special. Luckily for me, the teacher also felt it made me special and let me sit it out and just copy my friends notes after the class. 

Things like this, there are always alternatives no matter what your school rules are. You just have to make up your mind; will you do it if someone really pushes you, or are you going to refuse, point blank, no matter what? Once you make that decision, you'll find a way to either get on with it, or rebel and maybe make your school rethink their rules and hopefully turn to virtual dissection some day. One person can make all the difference.


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## Korra (Dec 11, 2011)

But guys, ya'll are making dissection seem like a horrible thing. It's not pretty, but it has its uses.


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## YellowSpork (Jul 7, 2012)

Korra is right. And in my opinion virtual dissections should only be used for studying for the dissection exams. There is a LOT more learning value in hands-on dissection instead of staring at a screen, in my opinion.But I also love dissections and am a biology major. So. I am probably bias.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

We are not talking about a University dissection here. We are talking about an 11th grade classroom dissection. Unless you're blessed with a reasonably mature class, it is a joke. 

When I dissected a sheep eye, fish, and frog in 11th grade, we had people throwing bits at each other and taking dead frog legs to wave around in the hallways. I walked out on that class and was never reprimanded for it. Another biology class my friend was in dissected a kitten and another a horse fetus - the attendance was VERY low in those classes.

I would talk to your teacher first - tell them you are uncomfortable with the dissection and ask if there is any way you could make up for a missed class by doing an online/virtual one and filling out some homework afterwards.

If they refuse, I personally would just skip the class. Being there is going to be traumatizing AND embarrassing for you, if you have a meltdown in front of your high school class, and it's HIGHLY unlikely that you are going to retain any lasting knowledge from crudely chopping up a rat.


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## YellowSpork (Jul 7, 2012)

In my high school AND middle school classes everyone treated dissections very maturely multiple times. In fact I think some of my university dissections were treated less maturely! But I do agree if you feel uncomfortable then talk to the teacher. Though you're probably going to be tested on the material (I always was) so I'm not sure I'd walk out on it or you probably wont do too well on the test.


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## Jfaye92 (Mar 16, 2012)

I had to do the same thing in my college biology class last semester. I was pretty upset about it as well, but i was basicly told "you don't have to do it... but if you don't youll get an F". So, being the type of person i am i started asking questions like, How are they raised?, Does it hurt when they are put down?. I was told that yes they are bred and raised to be dissected and no it doesnt hurt when they are put down ( that made me feel alot better) they simply go to sleep and never wake back up. Also keep in mind these rats are nothing like your babies. They are bigger and most of the time wild from lack of human interaction.

So, haveing said that it was a bad experenice for me at the time. But im glad i went through with it. As bad as it sounds it has helped me ALOT when it comes to the boys. Now that i know whats what inside of them i know where to look for problems that may arise in the future. Meaning i can stp them before they start. I know where to feel for lumps and bumbs that if found early can be treated. At the end of the day i'm glad that i was offered the obertunity to expand my knowledge.

I'ts not enjopyable for rat lovers but it can really help in the long run. Escp. when it comes to knowing whats going on inside your babys body.


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## Flashygrrl (Feb 8, 2012)

In bio we either treated the animals with the respect they deserved or got our a**es kicked. No, I didn't like doing it but it's a good learning experience IMO and might actually fascinate you. However, like Jag said if you think it's going to cause you to have a complete breakdown talk to someone about it. However, keep in mind that sometimes there are things you are going to have to do in life that you don't think you can handle so you may as well get practice now.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Jaguar said:


> We are not talking about a University dissection here. We are talking about an 11th grade classroom dissection. Unless you're blessed with a reasonably mature class, it is a joke.
> 
> When I dissected a sheep eye, fish, and frog in 11th grade, we had people throwing bits at each other and taking dead frog legs to wave around in the hallways. I walked out on that class and was never reprimanded for it. Another biology class my friend was in dissected a kitten and another a horse fetus - the attendance was VERY low in those classes.
> 
> ...


Couldn't've said it better myself!


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## Korra (Dec 11, 2011)

I've dissected things since 6th grade and it is part of what made me love biology and the mammalian body. If I had not found that love when I did, I may not be on the path I am now, which will make me a vet where I can help other rats, cats, and dogs. I think doing it in high school helps people who MAY want to join the medical field decide that want to pursue it which helps them not waste as much time and money deciding in college. 
Just an opinion tho.


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## echoskybound (Apr 24, 2012)

Smilebud said:


> So today I found out that in biology we have to dissect a rat. A real dead rat. That was born specifically to be killed and cut open for eleventh graders to enjoy. I don't think I'll be able to look at that silky white fur or sweet little paws without crying. I almost crude just thinking about it. The thing is, if I don't do it I fail, unless it's for religious reasons. Personal beliefs arn't considered "religous" reasons. If I just don't do it I will be "refusing to do work" aka principal time. My friends suggested lying about my religion, which I am not comfortable with, or crying, which I am fine with. Any other ideas on what I can do?


For the school to force you to do something that you are uncomfortable with is a form of harassment. They should NOT be able to. You or your parents need to go to the school board and tell them that the teacher is threatening to fail you for making you do something you are not okay with. That's as wrong as threatening to fail a disabled child for not doing something they can't do, or telling a chemotherapy patient that they have to remove their hat. Sometimes teachers can get a little pushy because they don't want students to try to get out of things that they just don't feel like doing, but they cannot force you into it.

I had this same problem in biology class when we had to disect frogs. I was allowed to sit out because of personal reasons. Parents had gotten angry in the past with our school for forcing students into uncomfortable situations like that, and the school became very nervous about making the students uncomfortable.

Ask the teacher for an alternate assigment or a quiz. The teacher has no reason to force you into something you're morally opposed to. Personally though, if I were in that situation and they were forcing me to do it, I would choose to fail the assignment, or honestly, lie about your religion (I know lying sucks, but they're treating you very poorly here and not giving you options you're comfortable with.) I think it's sick that they can hold you under duress and make you do something you don't want to do by threatening to fail you.


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## echoskybound (Apr 24, 2012)

Flashygrrl said:


> However, keep in mind that sometimes there are things you are going to have to do in life that you don't think you can handle so you may as well get practice now.


It's true that there are many things in life we're uncomfortable with... but I don't think it's worth traumatizing a student just for a class. I think it's okay to avoid uncomfortable situations to the best of your abilities. Those moments in life will come when they come, and nothing can really prepare you for them anyway, so no use forcing them ;]


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## Flashygrrl (Feb 8, 2012)

Like I said, if I think its going to turn the OP into a howling blubbering mess that's a different thing altogether and needs to be addressed. But the poster seems to state that if they really had to they would.

And quite frankly, I'm tired of hearing about parents intervening because kids don't want to do something. That's why the learning process is in such shambles as it is....teachers can't do their jobs and then get their behinds reamed out about it later.


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## Korra (Dec 11, 2011)

I agree Flashygrrl....alot of what parents do today is part of the wussification of Amercia.


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## Stubbylove (Sep 5, 2012)

I love my rats. Both the ones I had when I was in high school and the ones I now have as an adult. I am a RVT and also went PRE VET and have a BS in Animal Science. I love all animals. Rats right up there on the top of the list. And in many of my high school and college classes we had to dissect rats. And multiple times in my anatomy of the domestic animal class. (one rat for each system respitory, digestive etc). I felt bad every time. But I also learned ALOT that I use not only in my career but also just helping to keep my own pets health. I agree if that is not the field u will b going in that u should not have to do it. But I would just ask u to consider it if u r interested in seeing how your pets body works and how maybe u can help him/her if they came down w an ailment that u could possibly help them w. I know there r computer programs out there that show u the same thing. But the real thing is much more easier to learn from. It's kind of like this ......how comfortable would u b having your vet do any sort of surgery on your rattie if they never performed it on a live animal (all they did it on was a computer?). I wouldn't have too much confidence in my vet if that were the case. But if it truly bothers your and u have absolutely no interest in going into the animal Heath field or human health field (their bodies r very similar to ours as far as each system goes) then tell your teacher that u don't feel comfortable doing it and ask if u can do something for extra credit to make up for the points you would b missing?? 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## IOVERATS (Aug 25, 2012)

The teachers can't force you into doing something against your wishes, however this would be a great chance to learn more about your pet ratterbums (hehe, love calling them that). Like a lot of people have said, if you go to the principal or a counsellor or whatever, and they tell you to do the online one, then what are you going to be learning from that? You may as well do the real thing. I know it will be heartbreaking for you, but at the same time, if your ratties get ill at any point our know how to check for any out of place bumps and lumps etc, and then take him to the vets. If your interested in becoming a vet or something in that line of work, then think about the professionals, if they had to do surgery on an animal and they had a book out of the operating table or a computer on with the labeled dissection of the animal, and they start wondering why A and B look different to the books and computer then I know I wouldn't have ANY confidence in this vet! And I doubt that you would either. 

You'll really benefit from this experience, however if you really think that you will have a breakdown in front if the whole class and most probably embarrass yourself then I think it would be better to either (if your school provides this for students) do the online one, or make up the marks lost by doing something else. Like Jag said earlier, it probably will be people throwing pieces of the animal around the classroom, and probably taunting people with them. Which will probably make the experience even worse. But if you really don't want to, then tell your parents to complain to the school but if they refuse because they want you to do the dissection then you'll have to go yourself, the Biology teacher would be best first, and you may have to lie a but but it will be worth it. If he says you have to do it, then go to the principal and tell him/her about your situation. 

Just think, if people in your class know you have rats which is why you didn't do the dissection, then they may start telling you over exaggerated stories of how they cut it open etc. In the UK we don't have grades, but we have Years and I'm in Year 8 but in Year 7 (the first year) we got to dissect a sheeps heart, and some kids who were brother and sister who lived on a farm didn't do it because they owned sheep and they really liked them, but people kept telling them horror stories about how they popped blood vessels etc (which wasn't true). So if you don't do it, you'll have to think of a reason why you didn't, not because you have rats because people will keep doing this until you start crying then they will be mean then, if I was at your school I would stick up for you, but I'm not.

Also, have you asked your Biology teacher what the source of the rats were? Most of them are just wildly untamed rats who had a terrible life anyway, and these rats weren't pets, they were bred for science. Just think, if we didn't dissect animals how would be know how their bodies work and what nutrition they need? Because that's how we find out these things, by looking inside their bodies and knowing about such things like their organs etc. Without this kind of thing going on, how would be know what to feed our pets including rats! So I would suggest seeing how you feel, maybe even ask to see a rat before you do it, on your own, so it doesn't matter if you start crying, what I would do, is go to the biology teacher and ask to either see a previously dissected rat (if he has one, our school has example ones frozen in their kind of storeroom thing) or just a dead one. Or better still just ask what the dissection entails, but if you don't want to do that, then see if you could complete a sort of sheet with the order of dissection or something. But just remember these rats are NOTHING like your precious little ratterbums at home, they were simply bred for science and put to sleep, all it means is, is that they were put into a ever lasting sleep, it doesn't hurt them, and sometimes they are put down before they are aware of much anyway. Try not to think of its fur and it's little paws, because that will make it worse for you, try to just try to think of what your current objective is (what you ave to do next with the rat). I'm sure it won't be as bad as you think. Good luck  


A wise t-shirt once said 'my rats think your gross too!' directed at all you rat haters out there!


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Claiming that parental intervention in this hypothetical situation has anything to do with "wussification of America" is an absurd blanket assumption.

Rat fanciers are in the minority and forcing a student that keeps them as pets to complete an objectively gruesome assignment that is irrelevant to the majority of their future professional paths lest they fail the class (which is unacceptable at a high school level) is the equivalent of requiring other students to dissect puppies and kittens.

In many schools, opting out of this unnecessary exercise would require parental consent. This is the opposite of "wussification" as it would be a drawn-out process that would require strength on the part of the student to be faced with the judgement of their peers and "teachers".

Statements like that are really unnecessary, irrelevant, and offensive here.


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## Korra (Dec 11, 2011)

I didn't say all I said alot. You are making a blanket assumption on what I said. I was not saying in this particular hypothetical that the OP should do this if they totally don't want to. Read my previous posts and you will see. But in many other situations parents allow their kids to act out, get out of things, and just plain act rude nowadays. I know, I work in the school systems right now and I see first hand just how insane it has gotten. 
Teachers have no power to stop kids from bullying or hurting others or acting completely out of hand because they know parents now side with the child instead of the school regardless of the child was at complete fault. 
I was responding to Flashgrrl with my reply not the OP. Scroll back a few pages and you can see what I said to the OP.


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## Smilebud (Jul 31, 2012)

It's really mainly two things. One is that it would break my heart to slice open a rat, or any other dead animal, the other is that it goes against my morals and values to do it, as I don't believe that animals should be born only to be killed for human knowledge. So I was wondering what I should do about it, and it seems that talking to the teacher or school board is the best option currently. Other options are appreciated though.


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## koawren (Aug 8, 2012)

I'd love to hear how this turns out! Seems like your biology teacher is a little more by the books than mine (who lets me smuggle my ladies into class, as long as I keep them on the DL ). Stir up enough of a fuss and I'm sure they'll let you sit out. I actually brought one of my girls into class on the day of a frog dissection by mistake.. she was sweetly curious at first, but after getting a good whiff of formaldehyde promptly stomped off and slept in the my lab coat, haha. Good luck and stay strong!


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## Smilebud (Jul 31, 2012)

I'll make sure to keep you guys posted  You get to take your rats to biology class? Talk about a rat loving student's dream! So many times I've wished for a little foot poking out of a pocket.. They're just going to have to help with the homework


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## koawren (Aug 8, 2012)

They hang out in the boyfriend's pocket during auto tech sometimes, too. Having good teachers makes a world of difference.


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