# Can a rat be genuinely affectionate?



## Hal900x (Sep 16, 2015)

I've only had experience with adopted rats. They cannot know true affection as a dog or cat might. You can train them, with lots of time and effort, to simulate affection, but it's just a learned behavior for reward...parroting, if you will. Can a rat socialized from a young age develop any real affection for a human owner? Be honest


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

Yes, I've had a couple who as babies and onward always wanted to be with me and would lick me and play with me like their world revolved around me. Not all of them were like that, but I still have gotten more affection from many of my favorite rats than I have from any of the 12 cats I've owned.


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## Okeedoke22 (Dec 31, 2016)

I would love to know what they are actually thinking. I have had the same experience as Coffeebean. My rats are much more social with me then my cat is. I'm very new to rats but mine voluntarily climb on me and hang out with me. During free roam time they much rather be with me then exploring. Yesterday I wanted them to explore and get exercise so I didn't sit on floor with them. I sat on a chair and I had shorts on so they couldn't climb up my leg. They looked so sad and did everything they could to climb on me. They were like little popping popcorn trying to jump on me. I did not have any food on me because I wanted them to just run around. My little guy Nemo is the groomer of my guys. He is always grooming me with his little licks. Thumper(maybe Olaf, Gus Gus or Remy. He just doesn't seem like a Thumper) just climbs right on my shoulder and sits there. 

Rats are truly curious and social little guys. I really can't get enough of them.


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## Grotesque (Mar 19, 2014)

I disagree with your statement that adopted rats can't feel true affection. Of all my rats, some of the most truly affectionate rats have been adopted.


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## TheRatAttack (Mar 29, 2016)

Grotesque said:


> I disagree with your statement that adopted rats can't feel true affection. Of all my rats, some of the most truly affectionate rats have been adopted.


I agree, my most affectionate rat is not one of the boys, who I have had since they were weaned, it's Maple. She never wants to leave my side, and exhibits more affection toward me then she exhibits toward her cage-mate.


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## Hal900x (Sep 16, 2015)

Grotesque said:


> I disagree with your statement that adopted rats can't feel true affection. Of all my rats, some of the most truly affectionate rats have been adopted.


Interesting. I had assumed that the level of affection was directly in proportion to the amount of socialization with humans. Since my rats were from a lab, they did get human contact but no real interaction short of cleaning and feeding. They were never mistreated, just not played with. They are very much creatures of instinct, in spite of the fact I've put hundreds of hours of time on trust training and socializing. They are much tamer, yes, but they could not give a single d*mn about me unless it's motivated by food. I still love them dearly, of course. But it would be nice to have some of my affection returned. My first rat has passed on, and second one is preparing to join him, so I am considering purchasing a breeder rat. I would much prefer not to, and if what you say is true perhaps I was just unlucky the first time. How old were your rats when you got them?


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

> Interesting. I had assumed that the level of affection was directly in proportion to the amount of socialization with humans.


Temperament is actually tied to genetics far more than socialization. Getting a rat from a good breeder can mean that the rat has beautiful friendly naturaly temperament.

But I would say that affection in itself is not quite the same as temperament exactly. Affection can differ depending on the rats personality and trust and how well they bond with you. It can be built & grown for sure. Adopted rats certainly can love their owners and bond deeply to them. 

Animals just like people, have different personalities. Some want to be the center of attention, some may rather just chill by your side and others just like to go do their own thing. 

When getting a pet we can't really go in expecting them to fit into the box we want lol But there are ways to encourage more of what you want, like buying a certain breed of dog that is more known for a type of behavior. With rats I would have highly suggested buying from a good breeder with established lines so that the rats are sure to be more people friendly. But still every rat is going to be unique. Sadly though if you get a rescue or buy from a pet store it does come with the chance that you are going to get bad temperamental rats or unfriendly. It is just a roll of the dice, chance, luck. Some people are fine with that, but if not... go with a breeder. 




I have ALOT of rats and had ALOT more. I have ones that are my heart rats, they have bonded deeply with me. We just mesh well I suppose, like meeting your BFF. I love all of my rats but not all of them are that bonded to me. They show deep love, affection and some are downright needy as **** lol


On top of all that we can make things more enjoyable for both the rats and us. Your rats really like food? Start spending time trying to train them to do tricks. Bond with them over that. 
Sometimes you have to find a way to work on their level.

I used to foster kittens, most were born in feral colonies and there is a window where you can catch them and they will not be feral. But I had one kitten who was just outside that window. She would sit with us in the room openly, even right next to us. But we could not touch her at all. She would run everytime.

The obvious go to in these situations is food lol but nope not for her. She was uninterested in even the smelliest most delicious foods that cats go nuts for. 
She loved to play though. So I sat on the floor and used strings/cat wands to play with her. She became more relaxed, she was having fun. I could sneak in a pet.
In literally no time at all she was the most needy loving cat in the world. Alittle too much even lol she likes to sit on my chest and roll around and grab my hands if I dare stop petting her  She was my first foster failure because I kept her 

I'd have loved just an easy going naturally no work involved kitten lol but now she is one of my most beloved cats ever. Sometimes you just have to do things differently.


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## Hal900x (Sep 16, 2015)

Thanks. Like I said, I've spent a tremendous amount of time with them, doing trust training and beyond. Perhaps it was just the luck of the draw. I'm still curious, when people say "adopted rats", what do they mean? Former pets? Or are we referring to rats that have never been socialized like mine? Mine are from a lab, which I suspect is unusual. The only way you can get an actual lab rat is from a vet school or similar environment, according to my RVT gf.

PS: I'll post in a different thread but the nearest breeder to me is in Chatsworth. Seems to have recommendations and some award-winning rats, but from the sound of it, it's someone's home. They don't allow anyone to see the facility, and meet buyers "in a park across the street". As legit as the website seems, all that just screams shady af to me. Seeing the breeding facility is imperative for, say, dogs.


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## Fu-Inle (Jan 22, 2015)

Well I can share with a little story about my rat, Possum. She was handled from birth however shes normally very independent and not very cuddly. She preffers to be off exploring on her own than interacting with me but what she did one day gave me a whole new level of respect for rats. A couple of months after I got her she became extremely I'll. She refused to eat or drink. It happened so fast, she lost half her bodyweight in a matter of days and was just skin and bones. So I take her out the cage to and try to get her to eat and drink something. I gave her some baby food but she didn't want a bar of it, she even turned her nose up to nutella. After about 10 minutes of trying to get her to eat I put her back in the cage to rest then l layed on my bed, browsing this website on my phone for some infomation and Possum comes out of the cage and onto the floor, then climbs onto my bed. She crawls onto my shoulder, grooms herself for a bit, then curls up and goes to sleep . Totally out of character for her, normally she doesn't sit still for 2 seconds.


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

Hal900x said:


> Thanks. Like I said, I've spent a tremendous amount of time with them, doing trust training and beyond. Perhaps it was just the luck of the draw. I'm still curious, when people say "adopted rats", what do they mean? Former pets? Or are we referring to rats that have never been socialized like mine? Mine are from a lab, which I suspect is unusual. The only way you can get an actual lab rat is from a vet school or similar environment, according to my RVT gf.


Rescue can mean they got them from a rat rescue or they were rescued through other means such as that one rat who was set on fire by the person's neighbor kids and was literally rescued. Rescued rats can and often are previous pets but obviously that does not mean they were socialized at all, and some surrendered rats even have behavioral issues just like a rescue dog or cat might. Rescue rats can be well-handled rats given up by caring owners or they can be unsocialized rats who were never handled before, or were even abused.

This morning I was thinking of this thread while I was sitting with my rats and playing a game at the computer desk. After a couple hours of them napping on me and playing on me and the desk, my rat Tickle leaned forward on the edge of the desk looking right at my face and looked like she wanted to jump to me. I mean she could have climbed onto my lap and even up my arm to my shoulder if she wanted, but she was basically begging to be up to my face. So I let her climb on my hand and brought her up and she perched on my fingers like a little bird and licked my face for minutes. My whooooole face lol, with her little rat arms hugging my cheeks. Meanwhile my other rat was napping on my lap, but she woke up to lick my hand and arm for a couple minutes every hour or so (I sat with them for a few hours). I've had Tickle for maybe a month and a half and the other girl only came to me a few days ago. I love them a lot and they love me, they wake up and come to the bars when I walk by and climb inside of my sleeve to hang out. They don't want to go anywhere else in the room, they might look around every 10 minutes but they spend most of their time napping on me or grooming me. They are genuinely affectionate toward me. Of course, my other girl is a spazz and wants to check everything out and would rather be getting into trouble than anything else, and that's because she has a different personality than the other two (Tickle is somewhere in between the sleepy girl and the spazzy girl).


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## BearNecessities (Dec 6, 2016)

Temperament is more so a factor of genetics as opposed to socialisation. Of course, being well socialised plays a part but the genetics of the rat have a much bigger impact. Breeder rats typically have a much more friendly nature and a much better temperament, generally speaking. Affection alone isn't massively dependent on temperament though. It's more of a case of how deeply the individual rat bonds to you, how much they trust you and their personality type. It can definitely be built on and adopted rats can definitely be just as loving as any other rat. Animals and people are incredibly similar, no two are the same. Some rats want snuggles, some would rather lay up the other end of the sofa but still close to you and some couldn't care less and would rather be doing their own thing. Pet ownership isn't always plain sailing and you can't expect your animals to fit into the ideal that you'd like. They're all individual. If you're looking for a specific temperament, your best bet is a breeder with established lines that breed for people orientated, friendly rats. Of course, each rat has its own personality and may not be an exact print of the perfect personality, but it's more than likely with a breeder rat as opposed to a rescue or pet shop rat. I have a lot of rats, I've had plenty in the past. Some are massively bonded to me and need my love and attention, some just see me as the provider of food. They're all friendly nonetheless, some just less people orientated. They all voluntarily climb on my shoulders and give kisses, but they don't all appreciate cuddles. It just depends on the rat.


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

Hal900x said:


> PS: I'll post in a different thread but the nearest breeder to me is in Chatsworth. Seems to have recommendations and some award-winning rats, but from the sound of it, it's someone's home. They don't allow anyone to see the facility, and meet buyers "in a park across the street". As legit as the website seems, all that just screams shady af to me. Seeing the breeding facility is imperative for, say, dogs.


Strange as it may seem the truth is by far most responsible breeders have a closed rattery from their home. I am closed myself.

Honestly I would not trust an open rattery at all. Letting people in, is a HUGE red flag for me.

It is not about hiding anything. It is about the safety of our rats. 

There are some very dangerous and even deadly viruses that are easily spread. It is the whole reason new rats should ALWAYS be quarantined before being placed with our other rats. If you allow people to enter that defeats the entire purpose of quarantine. People can carry viruses and even parasites (like fleas/lice) on their clothing. 

http://ratguide.com/health/basics/quarantine.php

Someone comes in and spreads something to my rats, it could mean expensive vet bills to treat them all. Most breeders do not have just a couple rats. Some meds are harder to treat for babies/pregnant/nursing moms as well. Some viruses could mean death or illness that would remove them from being bred. 

I could not only lose my beloved rats but the lines I have worked very very hard to create. 

It would be insanely risky to allow people inside. Honestly any breeder who does so is foolish IMO, I would not trust that their rats are healthy at all because they could not guarantee that. 

On top of that, this is our home. I have alot of other pets and I do not want to deal with people tracing in and out of my home either. This is our hobby our passion. But it is still our lives. 
How many horror stories I have heard where breeders were trashed because omg their dishes were dirty or something silly like that. Like yeah their home should be not a disgusting hoarders nest but it is lived in lol
There is also the issue of safety. 9 times out of 10 I meet adopters alone. People who know they can enter your house puts you at risk. Everyone remember the craigslist story where a woman met someone to sell baby clothes & they cut out her baby. That stuff happens. But also people could steal stuff. I always remember a story where a breeder let people in her house and while she was showing them one group of rats they stole others behind her back. People can appear safe and sane and not be....

One time I had a woman who wanted rats from me she asked about them and expressed interest. I sent her the links to my site and to fill out a form, she never did or replied. Weeks later she messages me asking for my address so she can come get them.... lol I told her they were already sold duh. She flipped out on me. Told me she didn't care & was going to come and get them. If she knew my address.... that might have ended badly.

People suck.


But beyond all that seeing the rats doesn't mean anything. People can clean and show you what they want. I have heard of people showing people their rats, while they had the majority of them in another room behind a closed door so no one could see the actual for real bad care they were giving sadly. 


What you want to look for is an open and honest breeder. They should be willing to share pics or even video perhaps, answer questions about their set up. Look at the pictures they do show. I always say if people are ok posting really dirty pics, it is a huge sign that they do not feel there is anything wrong with that and it is not a fluke but the norm


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## Hal900x (Sep 16, 2015)

I am sooooo jealous. So jealous. That's what I've always wanted, but didn't think it was possible.


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## TheRatAttack (Mar 29, 2016)

The adopted rat that I referenced was handled very little as a baby, the only time she was handled was during cage cleaning time.


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## SeinfeldMom (Feb 25, 2017)

I have 3 brothers who r only abt 3 months old. They have a tent, yes, a tent full of toys and treats that I sometimes sit in with them (for instance right now). As I write this response 2 of them are climbing on me and trying to play w my hair/get me to play w them, while the 3rd is trying to get closer to the phone screen so that I'll pet him. A TENT FULL OF TOYS! And they're more interested in playing w me


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