# Hitting little rat noses



## Siwain (Feb 25, 2008)

Where I live, the most popular way to correct a rat that bites a little too hard when playing with its owner is hitting it on the nose.

Now, I have read that the rat nose it very sensitive and should not be hit, even lightly so I've never done it myself. 

I've tried to correct many but as I can't explain it further it hard to change people's mind about it.

So I wonder if anyone can enlighten me about this? What kind of consequences can a regular hit on the nose bring? I would think it brings physical pain at least.

:-X


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## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

It is cruel and it hurts. It will make them either aggressive or afraid of you better to reward the good behavior. Nobody has gotten better when exposed to violence, which this is.


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## tiexgrr (Sep 24, 2009)

Siwain said:


> Where I live, the most popular way to correct a rat that bites a little too hard when playing with its owner is hitting it on the nose.
> 
> Now, I have read that the rat nose it very sensitive and should not be hit, even lightly so I've never done it myself.
> 
> ...


My B/f and I have this problem with his Sugar Gliders, seeing as they're worth $150 each, and are INCREDIBLY fragile little guys We've discovered, Hissing at them or blowing in there face softly gets the point across. This same Technique has proved to work with the Rats  

if you think about it they only weigh a few hundred grams and your hand a few pounds, it only makes sense  (our heavies glider is only 120g and he's 1.5years! our oldest 3.5 is 104g) so if you need to make a point blow on there face or his just be sure you dont hurt them!

Not saying you have or ever would harm the little guys of course


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## Siwain (Feb 25, 2008)

The thing is: I'm a moderator at an general animal forum. It's a Portuguese forum and I was asked to be a moderator a few months back.

As a moderator I feel it's my obligation to do my research so that I can teach others. There is little information about exotic animals in Portuguese and I'm one of the few who stick to American forums and sites when it comes to learning. Which means that although I have still much to learn (not only about rats but about small mammals in general, such as guinea pigs, etc) I'm one of the better informed Portuguese people. 

When it comes to hitting the rats over the nose, I had a discussion with one of my "colleagues" - a fellow moderator: she claims it's the best way to rid her rats of the playful biting habit, while I've been trying to convince her to use others methods (without success). Unfortunately she's not the first person I've encountered who does that.

I've tried to look up reasons why not to hit your rat on the nose - physical reasons. She doesn't want to harm her rats, and believes that hitting the rat over the nose does no harm and I believe that if I were to find some documentation of evidences of physical consequences, I would be able to change people's minds about the subject.


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## maddy (Jul 27, 2009)

a rats nose is tiny though
i wouldn't be surprised if it was done often enough it could do something to there 
air-ways and make it more difficult to breathe 
i find that a trigger-spray bottle filled with slightly warmed water works too
because they stop doing the thing that u don't want them to to clean them selvs

hope this helps


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## Sketchy (Jul 10, 2009)

I have found that making a high pitch "eep" sound and withdrawing my hand works well (this is the same thing rats do to each other when one nips a little too hard).
Blowing on the face wouldn't work for _my_ babies.. they love their face being blown on. xD However it might work for you.

Rats do not take well to negative reinforcement because they are very low on the food chain and anything bigger then them that hurts them would be considered a threat or predator.


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## Siwain (Feb 25, 2008)

Sketchy said:


> I have found that making a high pitch "eep" sound and withdrawing my hand works well (this is the same thing rats do to each other when one nips a little too hard).
> Blowing on the face wouldn't work for _my_ babies.. they love their face being blown on. xD However it might work for you.


The eeping noise worked very well for me! I've never tried blowing on their faces but I've never needed to try it out either!


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## AMJ087 (Aug 27, 2008)

im unsure of the physical effects but i do agree high pitched sounds or a blow in the face works better.


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## Ky_Zack (Feb 14, 2009)

I find that any loud noise, such as a stern NO or EEH(sound), or forceful clap of the hands is pretty good and stopping them in their tracks. I have given them little whaps before and if anything I've found it just riles them up and they want to play. 

Pinning aslo helps for dominance, as it does with dogs. Don't squish them or anything, just hold them firmly enough they can't wrigle free and hold them down with their back on the floor, couch, whatever. They are not fond of it in the least but it causes no pain. It establishes that YOU are the boss. 

Persoanlly, I feel that good behavior sould be positivly rewarded, AND that bad behavior should be punished. This holds true for ANY animal. Rodent, "normal" pets and children. One doesn't do much good without the other for refrence.


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## molpie (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm not very experienced with rats yet, but have taken care of many other rodent-types (gerbils, especially) and have found the quick blowing in the face to be quite effective for most critters with nipping issues. It just startles them, but doesn't hurt, and they learn quick. I'd think that rats would learn really really quick, given how smart they are. Wish I could give you more scientific reasons... (I'll pass along this question to a vet tech I know), but there's my 2 cents.

M.


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## patty! (Aug 7, 2009)

This is purely speculation on my part, so bear with me....

When you're talking about dogs, for instance, I've always heard the best way to 'communicate' with them in order to show them right from wrong, dominance, etc., you have to treat them as another dog would treat them -- affection for good behavior, and nips and jabs for behavior that requires correction. That's how (as I understand it anyway) the "dog society" sort of flows. When you're talking about rats, though , I would think that in a rat's normal "wild" setting, there's very little if any _correction_ going on. While they are social creatures, it feels like there's very little pack mentality. They hang out together but when it comes to survival it's every rattie for itself. If that's true (again, speculation...correct me if you have a better theory) then I would think that, as a previous poster mentioned, negative reinforcement does nothing more than cause a rat to avoid the _source_ of that negativity, rather than avoid the behaviors leading up to the punishment. However, they're instinctually predisposed to doing whatever it is that gets them fed. So they are, as the adage goes, like us men: the path to their hearts is through their stomachs -- positive reinforcement works wonders; negative reinforcement only drives them away.

Sorry I'm long-winded...I'm bored


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Yep, which is why eeping works, its rat language for "ouch, stop, that hurts!"

Their skulls and sinus bones are tiny, and could be easily damaged. They feel strong but thats the muscle on their bodies, there's no muscle on their head so you could do some serious damaged and kill the rat.


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## cait422 (Oct 5, 2009)

I have recently inherited a very aggressive male rat named Bear. We had to buy gloves because he nips. But he has gotten so so sooo much better when it comes to nipping and he doesn't do it unless he is really skittish now. How I managed his nipping was blowing in his face, snapping my fingers, and eeping. The snapping of the fingers works really well because its a very sharp sudden loud sound and it really gets his attention and then he knows that his behaviour wrong or what he is doing is wrong.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

cait422 said:


> I have recently inherited a very aggressive male rat named Bear. We had to buy gloves because he nips. But he has gotten so so sooo much better when it comes to nipping and he doesn't do it unless he is really skittish now. How I managed his nipping was blowing in his face, snapping my fingers, and eeping. The snapping of the fingers works really well because its a very sharp sudden loud sound and it really gets his attention and then he knows that his behaviour wrong or what he is doing is wrong.


Be careful about using face blowing as a reprimand, some rats it sends into a rage and can cause worse behaviour


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## Ky_Zack (Feb 14, 2009)

Pretty much all pack animals, canines, rats, humans, have the same base mentality. And all pretty much learn the same way. Positive for good, negative for bad. It's a simple concept. I ham by no means advocating beating the snot out of your rat. You have a hundred times their mass, not hard to cause some damage. The blowing in their face could just as easily cause some damage, like when an adult gives CPR to a child, you have to not only dpress the cest softer you need to blow softer as well. And as far as snapping your fingers, think about the scale, you snap your fingers next to them and it's probably akin to someone firing off a 12 gauge a foot from your ear. That $#!^'s gonna hurt their ear. Why do you think it works. Same with the blowing, think about how it might feel if the attack of the 50 foot woman chick picked you up and forcefully blew air in your face. It's gonna rush all in your oriphices and sting, your ears might pop. I had a ballon one time, rat tried to climb on it and it poped. I can only imagine how loud it must have been to her, I could see that it didn't just scare her. it stuned her, and she was awkward in walking for a moment after. I also flung one across the room once on acident, they were in a tube, I tripped up and in grabbing for balance lever actioned the tube and catapaulted the poor thing into a wall. She hit so hard I thought for sure I had killed her. Warily I walked over to where I thought I would surly find a carcase and she jsut looked up at me like "what the **** just happened" and scurryed right up my leg. Wen't back to playing with her sister like nothing happened. They're tough little critters. 

that was long and mostly tangent. sorry.


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## aqualaureena (Jun 2, 2007)

I have mainly had boys and when they were adolescent and used to get cocky with me and hiss and bite me I would just pick them up and hold them on their backs until they calmed down. Not pinning them down, not moving fast or threateningly just holding them lightly until they stopped being angry. I think the main thing is is to never let yourself get angry (which is quite hard sometimes when a rat nips, even a little 1!) and if you remain calm but maintain that you are boss your onto a winner. One of my rats was very sensitive so I found tone of voice a better bet.


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## Paterson.S (Oct 1, 2009)

Yeah I would say squeeking is the first punishment step.
Then time out, put them back and ignore them.
Dominant pinching is supposed to work, but I havent tried it.


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## RMHmommy (Nov 24, 2009)

I think the best idea would be to eek and pull away. When I first got the boys and remi was nipping at my fingers playfully she said to just eek and pull away. This worked really well. I really hate the idea of hurting my rats or hitting them. Mine are pretty much never biting or mean so I havent ever tried the blowing in the face or squirt bottle. I know one of my boys loves blowing in his face though!  he would be like "yay! I did something good by eating max's ear" haha and then I would be even worse off!


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## steffiez (Nov 24, 2009)

You aren't suppose to punish rats because they don't know what they did wrong.


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## visiblephantom (Nov 20, 2009)

What might help, being a moderator, is to tell them that, because the ratties are so small, big anything (like fingers) is more likely to hurt. You can suggest, instead of bopping them on the nose, just to touch the nose to be like "hey, quit it," if the people you're talking to online refuse to try blowing on their faces or making "eep" noises.

I do this for my little rattie, Eevee, because she chews her cage at night (even though she has a variety of chew things). I don't bop her, I just touch her nose and tell her "no, not for ratties." haha Because the nose is so sensitive, a simple touch is just as good as a bop without harming the rat.


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## visiblephantom (Nov 20, 2009)

AvaAdoreSmashing said:


> visiblephantom said:
> 
> 
> > What might help, being a moderator, is to tell them that, because the ratties are so small, big anything (like fingers) is more likely to hurt. You can suggest, instead of bopping them on the nose, just to touch the nose to be like "hey, quit it," if the people you're talking to online refuse to try blowing on their faces or making "eep" noises.
> ...


I don't think so, because I got her a new chew thing (the dangling chew things just weren't working), and now she doesn't touch her cage bars.


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## Ky_Zack (Feb 14, 2009)

That's why you 'punish' them, to let them know that they did something wrong. Just don't hit them with a rolled up newspaper. 

I've also heard of people using a squirt bottle, works for cats. And some friends of mine once had a "bad kitty" can. Aluminum can with a hand full of pennies. Cat get's into something it's not supposed too, give it a quick shake, noise startles them. I've used a solid clap of the hands to break up fights in the cage that get too rough. Any loud noise has a tendancy to freeze them and get their attention.


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