# Bijou is having her babies - HELP deformities in babies???



## Finnebon

Hello! Was pretty happy to see when I woke up, Bijou had just started having her babies and had 2 out already. Right now there are 5 and she is still going. One stillborn so far. 

But jeez, it looks like a couple of the babies are missing feet!! I thought well, they look a little stumpy, but they're newborn, maybe not just fully formed to look like feet yet. But then I saw a normal baby, and some of these little ones are indeed missing some body parts...

Craps, is there anything I can do? Anything I should do??

Please help  PM me too. Anything.

I'll post pics as soon as I can.


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## Finnebon

So far the majority are missing mostly backfeet, but some are missing their fronts, and some cases, both front and back..


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## TheZoo

Is she biting them off? if not there really isn't anything you can do unless your feel there too bad to continue then I would consider maybe culling the babies especially the ones in the worst shape.


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## Finnebon

Thank you fo a quick response!! 

I don't think she's biting them off. She's so far as I've seen, just been eating afterbirth, cleaning up the baby, pushing it out of the way, and continuing giving birth. I'm watching her carefully and so far haven't seen anything worrysome like that. One baby however had a small cut and was bleeding on the head (it's stopped now) but I think that was the first baby and she was trying to pull it out and her teeth may have nicked it. But that's all I can see so far I think..

What is a humane way to cull little pinkies if there are some that I think cannot live a normal life?

Has anyone had experience with rats borth without limbs? Were they able to live an accomidated, but normal life? I feel their little feet stumps would get injured trying to move around and they wouldn't be able to exercise hardly at all. Or in some cases, hold food.


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## Ratfinx

Have you managed to get any pictures yet? It may be easier for people to help if they see exactly what they're like? A lot of rats don't know much different when they have been born like that however like you said about ones missing front paws might not be able to hold food, If I was in your situation I wouldn't cull them until I knew 100% they're not going to be able to do what they need to, 


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## Finnebon

some look like they're missing entire back legs too, not just feet. So if they grow up, they'd be just dragging their butts and tummies on the ground. 

This whole experience is turning into a nightmare... I didn't mind that Bijou was pregnant when I adopted her, figured it'd be fun to see little babies grown and find homes for them and keep any babies that couldn't find homes. It's going to be almost impossible to find homes for deformed babies. Assuming their high white genetics don't kill them with megacolon first that is.. 

I'll try to get some decent pics now and post in a sec.


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## LightningWolf

First off, calm down a bit.

By the sounds of it, she's grooming them too hard. Something that is common in new mothers.

As for missing parts of their feet, many rats like that have been born and have survived to live happy lives. As for the back legs, if their missing one they'll most likely grow up to be fine. If they are missing both, you might run into some issues, but I'll wait for you to post pictures first before commenting more on that.


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## Finnebon

Here are two of the deformed babies. The ends do look bloody, as if she did chew them, but they also look sealed, so I think it's just blood pooling into the very tips. Doesn't look like any wounds, and there's too many for it to be her chewing them.

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And of course, here's a normal baby:

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Sigh


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## Finnebon

Anyone have suggestions? She might be finished now, looks like she's sitting still. there are a few normal babies which is nice. I'll try to get a count soon.


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## Ratfinx

I would give them a couple more days or weeks to see how they develop, but because they are born with it I think they will be okay, as long as they're with the right owners that don't mind giving them some extra care, I know If I had them I would keep them and care for them myself but that's because I'm so used to having to care for sick and disabled animals on a daily basis, they may develop later then the others, but I agree with lightning, 


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## Phantom

I wouldn't cull them. If the mother thinks it's right to cull them she will probably do it herself or they will die on their own. I don't know about rats, but I know of instances where leopard geckos and bearded dragons were born without a tail or a leg and grew up to be just fine.


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## Finnebon

It wouldn't be a big deal at all if they were missing a tail or one leg, but most (maybe all) of the deformed babies are missing all four. some are just the hands/feet, and some are the entire limbs. I'm not sure what quality of life the babies will have if they survive and grow up.

I will wait a few days though before I decide what to do, and in the meantime, I'll be keeping updates.

Also, would anyone have any ideas why this happened? I'm chalking it up to to just crappy petstore breeding genetics. At least the one good thing out of this is I'll now be willing to drive a couple hours or more to find a breeder rather than going back to a petstore!


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## Voltage

Personally I would let nature sort it out. And I think finding homes for deformed rats is probably going to be easy. There are lots of people out there looking to care for a special needs animal or people who want something strange and exotic.

There are lots of animals who live their lives without limbs.

Please don't take away their chance to live life until you are certain they can't survive. 
Having a life is better than never having one.
Unless you can't handle taking care of special needs rats or if they are suffering

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## Rumy91989

That is a bit odd.... I'd leave them be for a little while to see how they develop. Often babies born with minor deformities will grow up knowing exactly how to cope and won't be much different from a normal baby at all. How many are there altogether?


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## zurfaces

Don't cull them please! Since they are just stumps I think they will get on just fine as long as they are in a one level cage with very soft clean bedding. If they are on something rough they might cut up their stumps on it and then get infected. You'll be surprised at how adaptive rats can be. They'll just have some balance issues I think which is why you need one level cages. I've seen rats missing one two limbs fully like cut off at the base get along just fine. Rats born paralized from the waist down get along just fine. Let them grow up and if it becomes a serious health problem then consider euth. They will probably need help cleaning their privates and need baths every week but you'll come to find you have some very loving stubby rats. The ones you put the effort into that rely on you are the ones that steal your heart! Please please don't cull them I'm positive they will do fine with a little extra care. :'( pleeeeaaaseee

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## Phantom

I actually wouldn't be too worried about the deformities slowing them down. Usually, animals who are born and live with deformities learn to adapt. For instance, manx rats who are born without tails can still climb and hold their balance pretty well. Also, if I recall there was once someone on the rat forum or someone on the internet who owned a rat without two front legs.


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## Finnebon

Little Bijou is fluffed up with her babies all drinking underneath her and seems very sleepy. Assuming that they were born this way and she didn't chew off the feet (I don't think she did) she did a great job!

That's what I'm planning to do. Just going to see how it all pans out and hope for the best. I'll watch and see how they are able to get along without assistance. I'm hoping they'll be ok.

I agree with you, as long as they're not suffering or really horribly struggling, I think they deserve a chance at life. I just always try to be prepared for the worst to make it easier on everyone involved and to have a proper mind set to do anything that's needed.


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## zurfaces

Look! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjoN0cF6FiQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player if this man can do it those rats can do it!! 

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## zurfaces

Phantom said:


> I actually wouldn't be too worried about the deformities slowing them down. Usually, animals who are born and live with deformities learn to adapt. For instance, manx rats who are born without tails can still climb and hold their balance pretty well. Also, if I recall there was once someone on the rat forum or someone on the internet who owned a rat without two front legs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SinxU518Ink&feature=youtu.be

This is what you're talking about. 

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## Phantom

zurfaces said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SinxU518Ink&feature=youtu.be
> 
> This is what you're talking about.
> 
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Yup! I thought I saw that somewhere.


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## HeatherElle

Aww poor things. I think you're doing the right thing by letting them be unless they begin to suffer.


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## RedFraggle

I wouldn't be surprised if Mum culls them herself, however if you cannot keep them and do not think you will find suitable homes I personally would have a vet humanely euthanise them sooner rather than later. Missing one limb or missing feet is a bit different but with no limbs I think quality of life is severley compromised and you could be subjecting them to a life of urine burns and skin problems (i.e. sores). I don't expect this to be a popular opinion, but it is mine.


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## Emyhb22

I followed your last post and following this one too. I suggest you let them develop slightly and see how things go. If then your judgment decides they are too deformed, the vet can quite easily put them to sleep humanely. Sending all my love for these babies and mummy! 


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## PurpleGirl

My fella has a friend who used to have a hamster that was born without back legs. She was told to have it pts but she gave him a chance, the little guy lived to the ripe old hamster age of almost 4 and was perfectly happy pulling himself around in a single-tier cage, I assume his skin naturally toughened up after a short while, like someone who sews a lot developing a callous on one finger. I wouldn't give up on the little ones just yet; I also agree not to cull them, if mum thinks it's for the best, she'll most likely do it. Some mums do groom too roughly and make their babies lose toes, I think though that it's not very likely she would've accidentally done that to so many of them while she was still focused on labour. It'd be a very unpleasant thing for you to do, especially if there's a chance they may live happy lives; after a while, if it seems the struggle is too hard for them, I'd have a vet euthanise them humanely. I'm glad some of them seem Ok so far.


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## zurfaces

I would be interested in seeing pictures of all of them if you get a chance. Keep us updated I can't wait to watch them grow! 

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## Ratfinx

I'm so glad your seeing how they do, I agree if they're quite happy the way they are and have no problems just to leave them be  keep us updated and send lots of pictures when you get the chance, I love watching litters grow up! 


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## evander

I am glad to hear you are going to give them a chance!

I hope they all do well!

I have been a caregiver for people with many different types of disabilities over the years and they always amaze and inspire me!


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## cagedbirdsinging

You and Bijou are doing a great job. I'll chime in with everyone else and say to give them a chance. Luck is on their side because they will be growing up and learning to move and be a rat minus these body parts rather than losing them later in life and trying to learn how to cope.

On a darker note, if the babies end up with MC in a few weeks, you'll be making a bad visit with the vet anyway. I would definitely wait and see what the next month brings.


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## Finnebon

Thanks for all your wonderful words of encouragement, guys! Even if things don't look so bright for this litter, you've at least made me feel a bit better with your support! <3 I've just been walking around in kind of dreaded, numb yet depressed fog all day. I'm sure you all know exactly what I'm trying to describe. I'm back home now and was about to post pics since Bijou was out of the nest and eating, but of course once I got some fleece and lights set up she decided it was feeding time, haha. I'll post pics asap when she's done feeding. Gosh, their little squeaks are so cute!!

Thank you all again


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## Rumy91989

Their squeaks are super cute. I look forward to pictures!


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## Finnebon

Well, here they all are! 11 total babies. 1 stillborn, 2 deformed, 8 (seem to be) healthy. Please send positive thoughts that none will develop MC!

In the group pics, on the left are the 8 healthy, on the right are the 2 with the deformities. I tried to get a closeup of both babies to hopefully show whats wrong. Just look like dried up little stumps. The little hands on the left of the picture for both babies look sort of normal, but just very small.

Mama seems so happy to be rid of that weight and is running around more than I've ever seen her. She seems excited, but should be with her babies. I worry they will get too cold. I'll heat up a "snugglesafe" hot pad to put on one side of their box to be sure they'll not get cold.


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## LightningWolf

Good that only 2 are deformed, Don't need any more issues on top of possible MC. Can't tell from the pictures but do they have good milk bands? (looks like in the pictures that one doesn't have a milk band at all).

By the looks of it, I'm guessing mom got grooming happy.


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## evander

I saw milk bands on quite a few so it looks like mom is doing an awesome job!!

Very strange how the stumps all seem to look blackish - hoping they do ok!!


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## Rumy91989

Yes, looks like lots of milkbands! I've never seen birth defects quite like those... I'm glad eight seem to be healthy, though! Lots of rat moms like to get away from the babies now and then so it would be good to let momma out to play a few times a day as long as you can keep an eye on the babies while she's at it.


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## Phantom

If you want to you can try a mini repti therma heating pad. I'm currently using it for my little guy and it works wonders. The mini is nice because it does not get too hot, and it stays nice and warm. My little guy loves it. =P


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## Ratfinx

I'm glad it's only two, hopefully they'll learn their own way to get about  good luck with them all, they're super cute! 


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## nanashi7

I was reading online in research for my own rat and I had read that inexperienced mothers will use their teeth to pull out babies that are "stuck" often resulting in deformities. The mother won't kill them or neglect them and they will learn to adapt.


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## Lesti

Aww, I hope they get on OK. I know if I was over there and I could get a third rat, I'd take one 


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## Finnebon

Well, it's never too soon to try to find excellent homes for little babies! And I'm sure there's lots of good rat owners on this site. I'll post in the adoption/looking for homes page once I know the genders of the babies.  I live in the bay area in California, so I hope there's some of you close by! I don't mind driving a bit too to meet halfway. I'll post more pics tonight of day 2 babies and will hopefully have an idea about gender differentiation.


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## Rumy91989

Sounds like a plan! Do be careful with finding families too early, though, in the event that MC does become a tragic issue. As long as the future families know there's a slight chance something might happen to the babies you'll be fine, but it's hard to tell a future adopter that the baby has been lost so I vote for treading carefully in this case. 
There are plenty of users in your area, though, so hopefully you'll be able to find people on here to take in some little ones.  How many were you planning on keeping?


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## Daize

It's good to see the babies are doing well.

As for the ones missing limbs. It looks like the mom accidentally bit them off. Even in the earlier pictures you can see the blood at the area where the arm/leg should have been. If they survive, they'll learn to cope without them. They might even be just as active as the rest of them.


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## Finnebon

Yeah, I plan to not make any promises and I will be VERY CLEAR about MC and tell them about it and that they should never be bred because of that genetic they carry, and to be sure never to risk it with the opposite genders being around each other.I plan on keeping one or two. I will let Bijou pick who she seems to like the most and keep that baby. My boyfriend might pick a boy to go with our 3 boys now.With MC being a risk, I don't know how many there will be to adopt out at the end.. but I'll be sure to make that known as well.The only thing I can promise is that the babies will be really well socialized and loved until they go home!


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## Poisoned

I would have put down the ones missing most of their limbs, honestly what kind of life is it to be a potato of a rat. It does look like she bit them off in the first post. Not to mention, dragging yourself on stumps where bone is splintered/jagged under the skin.. just sounds unpleasant. But I wish you the best of luck.


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## Daize

I think if they make it, skin will grow over any exposed bone. Chances are there's not a lot of jagged or splintered bones. The bones are so small and soft at that age, it could have been a clean cut. They'll need soft bedding, like fleece under them at all times. They seem to have enough of the limbs to get around a bit. It won't be easy, but not quite a potato. The missing parts seem to be just the foot on the front and below the knee on the hind legs. There's still hope. 

I'd give them time to see what happens. They might surprise everyone.


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## Poisoned

I thought she said some were missing all legs. 
Hopefully the bones DO grow and form a smooth surface under the skin. I know an old break I have hurts like heck when pressure is applied due to sharp bones. I choose to live with it instead of having surgery to remove the shards.. A rat can't tell you he's having pain every time he tries to move.

You will have to be so very picky and careful about placing. I'd be very leery of them living with other rats who aren't disabled like they are - they'd have no chance defending themselves. Also keep in mind their owners will need to clean them most likely, as they'll be dragging themselves in their pee, so they don't get burnt by it. And I don't know it if would, but I can't imagine dragging their 'bits' around constantly won't have any effects. Hopefully they will be able to clean themselves. 

I was searching for a word and potato popped up, I really wasn't trying to be funny. lol I'm sorry.


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## LightningWolf

I'm honestly with poison, but we have no say in what Finnebon does. (btw, sorry about your leg Poison, at least you can still go through an airport without setting off metal detectors). Though with them being so young, it will most likely heal to be smooth. (let's hope anyways).

Though here are somethings to keep in mind for the two with their back legs gone

1. If you have to adopt them out, try to find someone who has experience with rats with HED and preferably even has a rat or two with it already. If their both the same gender and they both make it, it might be best to adopt them out together as a pair that shouldn't be introduced to other rats other then those who are laid back or have HED. It might also be good to adopt them out to someone who is not afraid to make the call of PTS.

2. If you do keep them, try to keep them together as a pair only. You might also want to get to reading on rats with HED, including all the health issues, and learn when it's time for the call of PTS.

Btw, do you have any pictures from today?


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## Finnebon

Lol Poison, that's exactly what I thought too, a potato or loaf of bread rat. Looking closer today, it looks like maybe just the fingers were taken off on the front paws but the hand part is still mostly there. I've been thinking a lot about how to make little "boot scoot" carts rat sized. Something like this:






Rabbits are known to get HED as well so there's lots of information available.

I plan to be extra careful when finding a home for the special babies, but I am prepared to care for them myself myself if need be and to make the call for PTS if it looks like they are really having trouble. I try not to be too quick to think something should be PTS. And as I said before, I'm not a bleeding heart either and it will be difficult to decide, but it has to be done if it's best for the animal or if things will only get harder and make it unhappy with a poor quality of life. Unless they're in pain or it seems they are on the road to it, I'd like to give them a chance at least. And the more they develop, the less bad it looks, but I will be careful about my decision and keep a close on on them both.

I've separated the two special little potato babies (I think that nickname will stick haha. Am I bad person? ) along with 2 others into the nest box atm so they get fed. The special ones are also the two smallest and with the least full of all the tummies so I'm making sure they have a chance to be able to get at the nipples and don't have to struggle too hard to fight for it. The other babies are on top of a warm pad that's covered in a bunch of layers of fleece and they are sitting on top of that and contained. The surface is just barely warm to the touch and almost everyone seems to be sleeping comfortably, so they're not too hot or too cold.

Pictures soon, once Bijou is done feeding! I'll check again later on, but it looks like there's 5 boys, 5 girls. The special babies are 1 boy, 1 girl unfortunately.


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## Rumy91989

I'm looking forward to seeing pictures today! 

Honestly, unless by some miracle the potato babies (LOVE IT!) end up being absurdly mobile for their condition, it might not be a big deal that they are separate genders. I'm imagining with only one or two working limbs that accidental litters between them would hardly be a concern, but as with everything with this litter it's just going to be a see as you go type of deal. Naturally keeping a boy and a girl together is a huge risk, but it seems unfortunate as they really should be housed together and only the two of them. *sigh* perhaps someone will be willing to get one of them fixed to make that possible,

I do have to say, this is certainly a more exciting/interesting litter than I have seen in quite some time.


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## zurfaces

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dm0SWwlWGQ


[URL]http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?51838-Wheelchair-for-ratty-)-not-my-rat-but-this-made-me-smile![/URL]


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## Finnebon

If it looks like the potato babies (haha!) can grow up and live fairly normal long and happy lives with their condition, I would get the boy fixed if I kept them both just to be on the safe side. Wouldn't that that poor girl to struggle with pregnancy/birth on top of her problems already! I'm really trying to not get attached or affectionate feelings for these little wriggling pink things, but damnit, I can feel myself losing that battle *sigh*. I will still hold on to my belief that what has to be done gets done (worse case scenario) as I'd feel even worse seeing the babies struggle or be in pain, but they are so cute. I count them everytime I look at them and love their little "eep eep eeps!"

It seems that the potatoes are definitely the smallest ones, and aren't near as active or squirming around as much as their brothers and sisters. I'll do my best to make sure I always see at least a small milkband by rotating the babies to give them a fighting chance, but other than that, I'll let Bijou and mother nature handle the rest. I'm rooting for them though!

Right, here's *Day 2* pics!

Boys:







Girls:







Biggest baby (a boy, all the biggest babies are boys!) compared the the smallest baby (one of the special potatoes):







And I just thought this was really cute. Look how she's fluffed up and arching her back for them! Hehe


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## Finnebon

Oh, forgot to add.. in the boys pic, the special baby is on the far right. In the girls pic, special one is on the far left. They are both the smallest in the litter with the least amount of fight in them. Poor things.


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## TexasRatties

Poor little potatoes hey but maybe you have names if they make it. Maybe French Fry and Chip or something. Good for you for giving them a chance they want a chance just like all the others.


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## KelseyShea

I just have to say I love the term "potato baby"  And I'm glad you're giving them a chance. Excited to see all updates.


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## TheZoo

Well Im glad its not as bad as you first thought are there little scabbies healed?


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## Finnebon

They're getting there. They don't look infected at all, but they're scabbed over. Hopefully they heal pretty well!

Is it ok for babies to be just on the bottom of a shoebox? Everytime I try to make it nice and line it with fleece and paper towel so it's nice and soft for the babies, she divides the box in half. She tears up all the floor and the strips of fleece and paper towel and makes a nest surrounding herself, burrowing in it. And the babies are left on bare cardboard with just the fleece strips around them. I have the heat pad on the outside glass of the glass so they won't get cold, and the box stays pretty warm with everyone in there. But she always makes it so it's half Bijou's bed, half baby bed.


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## Phantom

You should name both of the potato babies Potato, but have their names sound different. One could be Po-tay-to, and the other Po-ta-to. Maybe even spell them that way. =P


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## FamilyRatters1

Thats one selfish mama..


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## Finnebon

Haha good idea phantom! xD

Ugh, Bijou is stressing me out!! I took out 6 babies and left 4 of the hungrier looking ones or the little weaker ones so they wouldn't have competition for food, but Bijou is freaking out and just wants to stay out to play! When I locked her back up in her tank, she curled up right outside the box as if to nap. I tried putting her in her nestbox at least 6 times, then gave up, and put the babies outside where she was trying to nap and now she's sleeping the in the nest box -___- *SIGH* Thinking about puting her in a small box for a little while with the babies so she has nowhere to hide. So frustrating! She's adding even extra worry to this litter, the little brat! Any other suggestions besides the box idea?


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## Finnebon

Little box idea fixed it and all the babies got their fill  The smallest potato is so lethargic and never really tries to crawl over to eat like the others do, I have to pick her up and place her underneath during feeding time. I dont have much hope for her surviving the next few days at this point, but we'll see. 

But it's rather shocking how mobile these little babies are already! So squirmy and they can crawl around pretty darn well with thier limited motor skills.

Day 3 pics tomorrow! ^_^


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## TheZoo

Sometimes moms are weird with their bedding. The fact that they're both runts suggest to me that maybe that why she chewed on them they were weaker and less likely to live but then again no way to know for sure. Also your squirmies are adorable looking forward to more pictures


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## Phantom

You can always try hand feeding the babies that look like they're not getting enough.


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## Rumy91989

Hand feeding is a possibility but it's also quite a bit of work, so it's up to you how realistic it is. Can't wait to see more pics!


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## Finnebon

I think they are getting enough food to live (they always have at least a small milkband) and when I do the rotations, they're able to eat much more so I think they're doing ok.

*Baby pics, Day 3:*

The boys (potato on far right):







The girls (potato on far left. She always feels a little cold to the touch and curls up a lot to stay warm. But she is the squeakiest little baby out of all of them! Whenever I move her, it's like she's saying "Eep eep I'm still alive!!"):







The boys and the girls. Can you tell which side is the girls? lolol


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## Charliesmom

*Think I finally solved what happened here... mama might have been over cleaning, or tried to self cull the little runts and didn't finish the job, here look at this link and see the similarity *http://ratguide.com/breeding/figures/birth_trauma_figure_4.php *It's gonna be a rough road for the little potatoes but they should be ok if they can get enough milk to live. *


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## Finnebon

Charliesmom said:


> *Think I finally solved what happened here... mama might have been over cleaning, or tried to self cull the little runts and didn't finish the job, here look at this link and see the similarity *http://ratguide.com/breeding/figures/birth_trauma_figure_4.php *It's gonna be a rough road for the little potatoes but they should be ok if they can get enough milk to live. *


Ooh thanks so much for sharing this!! It's been surprisingly hard finding any information on this thing especially since it's supposedly not so uncommon. The closest things I can find are about HED. Thank you!! I wonder how that little baby was once he grew up. For Bijou's two little ones, it looks like the whole back feet are missing. up to the ankle, or even maybe knee.  Hard to tell at this age. None look infected or suspicious thankfully.

I was really scared at first (as you can tell by the title and first few messages from myself on this thread lol) that they were birth defects since I think the first two babies born were the ones that got nibbled on so I was thinking they were all coming out missing limbs! I guess it's possible she was just kind of freaking out herself when the first two came out and was over excitedly grooming them. She's an intense groomer on her own body and nibbles her own nails very short and has barbered all the fur off the top of her forearms. Thank goodness the rest of the babies at least were left alone!


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## SarahEden

For the people who think that walking on the "jagged" edges of the broken bones would be painful or that the bones would begin to protude.... perhaps. But doubtful. I had a kitten that I handraised from 6 days old whose mom had bit off his foot and tail when she was chewing off the umbilical cord. He was surrendered to a rescue I volunteered for, with hopes we could do something for him. The vet did tell me to put him to sleep. NOT because of having problems when he was older, he just didn't think he would pull through the massive infection that he already had. But he did. And he grew up to be a beautiful Stumpy (what we named him) legged cat. He got around perfectly and had no pain or any problems with his little stump. He grew to a whopping 17lbs and never once did all the weight slow him down on 3 legs and a stump. It's worth trying.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/4260_175926760219_3739315_n.jpg 

Thats a picture of his stumpy leg.

Anyways, what you are doing is great. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise! I would definitely start treating them now though before a bad infection kicks in. The infection would kill them before anything else would. They are adorable!


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## Finnebon

That's an inspiring story! I agree that they possibly could have happy lives and that the stumps wouldn't bother them that much, but it is 3 of their appendages that are missing, not just one foot or one leg so I think it will affect them much more that just missing one. I'm not worried about infection at this point. They both look like they're almost fully healed and only have a bit of scab on the ends. no swelling, redness, or irritated looking at all, but I'm definitely keeping a close eye. If anything starts to not look so good, I'll soak their little stubs in warm water and epsom salt. I'll keep updates  the little girl potato is the weakest and doesn't make hardly any effort to drink, so we'll see what happens with them. I keep having to put her underneath Bijou when she's feeding, but of course the second I open the top Bijou goes "OUT TIME?? TIME TO PLAY?" and gets up to move, sometimes with a few babies still hanging off her!


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## Charliesmom

*I think a bit of a perfect storm happened here. The little guys look also slightly less developed than their bigger litter mates. When rats breed, they breed in frantic spurts multiple times and fertilization and implantation can happen a day or more later, the little guys were probably the last eggs to attach but closest to the end of the uterus. When they were being born, they were smaller, and less developed, from the pictures it seems like the pattern in which their little feet were bit off is very much the same, they may have been small enough to turn wrong in the birth canal and so she pulled to get them out possibly, or maybe the excitement of new babies got the better of her. Babies have a high level of clotting factor in their blood to keep them from bleeding to death when the umbilical cord it cut, so their wounds probably clotted quickly and that is why they didn't seem bloody. The little boy is missing both back feet up to the ankle, and one fore paw at the wrist. the female has her back feet off up next to the knee on one side, and just above the ankle on the other, and has lost one fore paw up to mid arm. They should be able to bunny hop with the stubby back legs, and with one paw intact they can get food to their mouths, but they wont be able to climb except low obstacles, so watch out for sores on their little backsides, the skin around the stubs should toughen up with time. I speak from some experience, not in rats, but in rabbits who have the same general body shape and locomotion except for climbing. Rabbits often over groom or self cull litters, and have raised and bred rabbits for 16 years I saw my fare share of birth amputations, all but two out of a dozen went on to lead fairly normal lives. One was amputated much in the same way, he hopped like a frog with his back stubs kinda splayed out, and pulled himself up over the food dish with his good paw. I made him my nanny for weaning baby bunnies, when they left the nest box, I would place them in a safe nursery cage where the babies could get bigger for a bit before going to their own single cages, and Frog as I named him was every babies big brother, he taught them rabbit manners, how to get to food bowls and water bottles, and generally kept them in line hopping and waddling around with them. he got a few sores on his bottom over his fairly long 6 year bunny life, so I would clean them with peroxide and dab on some neosporin and they would heal right up... but he did good.  *


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## Finnebon

Yeah poor babies  they're not too stong and don't fight much to get to their mom to eat. Do you think with the injuries you described, to the extent that they are, they would still be able to do alright if they're able to grow up?

They are also becoming dehydrated, and are skinny compared to the others in respect to their size differences. Especially the girl. Her skin is also looking visibly dry. I forget if I said this already, but they always squirm away from the rest of the group and end up laying alone by themselves and are sometimes cold to the touch. I have to watch them carefully and move them back, or at least over to the area with the heat pad where they can stay warmer.

What would be a simple formula I could help them out with? Maybe buy a can of kitten or puppy formula? Is kitten or puppy better?


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## zurfaces

They say human soy infant formula is the best option. 

http://ratfanclub.org/orphans.html

There is a link with a bunch of other stuff to help you. 

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## Charliesmom

*Yeah I would watch that waddling away from the group, it is a sure sign of failing in baby animals, it is almost universal in the animal kingdom that a baby that moves away from the group is ailing and maybe it's mother natures programming to give the strongest the best chance at survival. I honestly don't see why, with appropriate accommodation, that these guys couldn't live a full life... they may not be as active as normal rats, but they could do well. Problem is, is that they are so weak, because they have no back legs to push through the mass to get to teats and no front paws to push greedy brothers and sisters out of the way... plus getting chilled they can get pneumonia, and fade fast. feeding them yourself may be the better option. Look at it this way, if you continue to see them move away and get chilled they will most likely die, but if you hand feed they might have a slightly better chance but it is very time consuming to feed little ratties, one or two little drops multiple times a day is a time eating chore. Rats are omnivores, meaning their diets consist of plants and animals... so you want to find a formula that most closely resembles an omnivores milk... Believe it or not but rats digestive systems are very close to a humans! That is why rats began being studied in labs because their systems are so close to ours, so human soy baby formula is your best bet.... here is a link to a guide on raising baby ratties that is good, indepth, and should help you greatly *http://ratfanclub.org/orphans.htm *But just to make sure we don't give up on mama rat too soon and because mama's milk is best try this technique *just used it on some runty puppies and worked well* rotate babies. You previously said that your mama gets to freaking out if you get into her cage and start messing around with babies. You will need a smaller area for her to be confined in with her nest box. Warm a towel in the dryer, and place it in a small cardboard box, and take the bigger healthier ratties out and place them in the warm towel box, leaving just mama and potato babies, she may fuss to get out, zip around, but eventually if you leave the room for a bit and things are quiet she will go back to babies, this will give them a free chance at milk... if this doesn't work you may have to try something else. wrap mama in a warm towel *think ratty burrito with her belly out a bit* this will secure her, and put a kit next to her teat, if the kit is still in good shape it should root around and latch on, even if baby only gets a few mouthfuls before mama squirms away it is still better than nothing and the warm milk will help keep babies warm. When I had to hand raise bunnies, especially pinkies I made a handkerchief sling, basically take a handkerchief, or thin scarf, tie it around your neck making a hammock that sits under your shirt next to your skin, and then I would place babies in this safe hammock and my body warmth kept them warm without cooking them, having to change water bottles, or checking thermometers. The 98.6 of your skin is a bit on the cool side but the addition of your clothing elevates your skin temperature to around 100... plus it helps when you are feeding kits every three hours to just reach in you neck kangaroo pouch and take nice warm babies to get nice warm food. *


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## Finnebon

Thanks for the suggestions!

I have been doing exactly what you said with the rotations. She's upset at first being confined (she is the most active rat i've seen!), but after a few minutes she accepts it and will settle down until I let her out. I usually have 1 or 2 healthy babies in with her to stimulate her to feed, beacuse the last 2 times I've tried having only the little potatoes in there, she just curled up to sleep rather than try to feed them.

They still do eat, so If I do hand feeding, it wouldn't be for every meal. It would just be a few times a day to make sure they're getting enough fluids. They still need mom's milk! Has anyone seen any cheap powdered soy baby formula? Or a small amount? I don't really want to buy a $27 tub of it for babies that I'm never sure will even make it through the night. I was hoping of maybe just buying a small can of the puppy or kitten milk (or maybe even regular raw goat's milk?) as a temporary thing, even though I know that human formula is most similar. I just want them to hydrate up a bit, but they'll still be taken care of and fed by mom.


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## LightningWolf

The kitten milk or goat milk is be just fine for them, especially since they'll still be getting mother's milk.


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## Charliesmom

*You can get similac isomil soy in a smaller single serve packets in a box that has 16 packets. *kind of like crystal lite packets for water bottles.* that way if you have some left over because they are sealed in little individual packets you can give leftover to friends or family with a baby, and it's about 12-13 bucks http://www.toysrus.com/buy/baby-car...-advance-soy-formula-16-packets-56982-3332239 

It's great to hear that they just need to suppliment a little. puppy milk is just fine as well, but goats milk is a little too high in sugar and fat so try to avoid that. what you can do is mix the formula or puppy milk when you make it, with pedialyte *you can find it in the human baby section too* get the plain unflavored kind and use it instead of water... it will really help to re-hydrate the babies.*


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## Finnebon

Omigosh thank you! You guys are all so helpful


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## Finnebon

Finnebon said:


> Omigosh thank you! You guys are all so helpful


 that's weird, it cut off my response! What I said was thank you! And there's a store nearby that carries these, so I will pick some up! I've been gone all day, but I'll post day 4 pics when I get back home


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## Finnebon

*Day 4*

Boys left, girls right. Potato babies on the inside sides.







Boys, potato on right







Girls, potato on left








Potatoes don't seem to be doing well. Still alive, but very small and thin. When they squirm, I can see their ribs, and their lower tummies (maybe bowels?) look much darker than the others. They are definitely dehydrated. They feel cold to the touch most of the time. The girl is worse than the boy, but neither are doing well. They keep hanging onto life though so I'm not sure what to do with them. I supposed I can try to help them out with a few feedings, but I'm not sure how helpful it will be. Going to pick up supplies tomorrow morning.

The other babies seem to all be very healthy. They're nice and fat and almost all their ears are opening up. They are looking much more developed and are pretty strong and mobile!


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## Emyhb22

Really am hoping and praying for the potatoes? It would be lovely to see them fight this and end up healthy!

As for the others... They are doing so well! All growing great  well done bijou!! Ahhhh I love babies!!!! 


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## evander

Those little potatoes are real fighters to be hanging on all this time - I hope you are able to hand feed them and they survive!!

I am really rooting for those little tater tots!!!


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## PandaCobain

One of our baby gerbils was born with a deformed foot. I think they will just go on not knowing they're deformed. They'll figure out how to go on and just be a little special. Our gerbil runs around and plays and the parents don't pick on it. He's just like the others. I hope they all turn out alright.

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## JLSaufl

I just read through this entire thing, and I really hope those little ones make it. Really a runty deformed baby rat? I'd take one in a heartbeat. I'm really hoping it works out and if it doesn't, everyone knows you tried your best. Sending many good thoughts.


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## Rumy91989

Awww, the eight healthy ones look like they're doing very well! Over the next couple of days their patterns will start to be more visible. 

Don't know what to tell you on the potatoes... I suppose what is meant to happen will happen. We can only wait and see. I am impressed they've made it this far, though.


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## Limouri

I've been watching this thread too and I wish you luck with the little potatos, they're fighting hard. The rest of the babies look healthy as can be! 


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## Finnebon

*Day 5*

Boys left, girls right. I'm sure I don't have to point out the potatoes in group pics anymore, they're pretty obvious 







Boys. Weights from left to right: 11.9g, 12.3g, 10.6g, 10.2g, 4g







Girls. Weights from left to right: 3.3g, 9.5g, 10.8g, 8.8g, 10g








Here's the smallest healthy baby up close. The 8.8g girl. The flash on the camera really shows off her peachfuzz!







Biggest baby, the 12.3g boy.








And here's a closeup of the poor little potatoes so you all can see how they're doing in comparison to the healthier babies. They look so sickly, I feel so bad when I look at them.. Their stumps seem to be healing just fine, but their overall health looks pretty bad. I'm starting to handfeed them soy baby formula that's a bit watered down (couldn't find unflavored pedialyte) and it seems they're really not interested in eating. They also gape their mouths open a lot and shake their head to get away from the paintbrush. I am warming the formula up using a warm water bath. Could their gaping be trying to power suck? Or just having difficulty breathing/trying to get away from the brush tip? I think they're only getting a very small amount inside of them per feeding, but I'm going to try again in an hour or two. They always wiggle themselves away from the group and are cold. Everytime Especially the girl. Most of the time they are laying on their sides, similar to how they are on my hand in this picture. Their weights are not even half of the smallest healthy baby. The boy being 4g and the girl just 3.3g.









On a better note: the healthy babies seem to be doing great. Chubby and getting strong. All ears on the healthy babies are open now, and their pigment is beginning to come in, so I can just baaaarely start guessing at their colorations.


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## Charliesmom

*Yeah they look like they are falling behind rapidly, but they are troopers for making it this far... they definitely need help. they are probably colder because they have lost so much weight, and have no fat left... I really hope they make it, they definitely need groceries on em' *a texas slang term for getting them fatter* Every day older is one day closer to fur and body warmth to help them keep going. *


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## Charliesmom

<font face="comic sans ms" size="3"><b>Yeah they look like they are falling behind rapidly, but they are troopers for making it this far... they definitely need help. they are probably colder because they have lost so much weight, and have no fat left... I really hope they make it, they definitely need groceries on em' *a texas slang term for getting them fatter* Every day older is one day closer to fur and body warmth to help them keep going. </b></font>


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## Mitsy

I've reading this thread and the babies are all so cute I hope the potato babies make it good luck  


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## Charliesmom

*Do you have a dollar store nearby? At most dollar stores they sell cheap little pregnancy tests )What on earth does a pregnancy test have to do with helping baby ratties you ask?) Its not the test you need, it's the little dropper that comes with it to collect urine for the test.... like the little dropper in the photo on this link *http://www.amazon.com/Generic-Onsite-Rapid-Pregnancy-Test/dp/B0002YIQG4 *The dropper is soo tiny, and perfect for the potatoes... might work better than paint brush, just do a couple little drops at a time, then take a break, couple more drops, take a break... look for their little belly bands to expand... it's better to give them tiny amounts closer together, so try a couple drops, then 30 minutes later, do a couple more and so on... these babies are fading fast so they need milk/formula quick. also take a warm barley damp wash cloth and rub their little backsides, it may be that mama feels their weakness and has stopped helping them eliminate. *


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## LightningWolf

At least the others appear to be healthy and big.

I have nothing to add on the little potatoes.

As for feeding them, send Phantom a PM for how she made her feeding tube for Toast. You'll have to modify it so it's smaller though, but will probably be the easiest way to feed them.


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## Finnebon

Little potato girl (I've been calling her "Kickstand" in my head since she really only had one arm left) has sadly passed on a short while ago. I'm kind of releived because I can't imagine how she was able to hold on for so long in her condition and not eating, or trying to eat. Poor thing, I at least hope she wasn't in any pain.

The boy I'm trying to feed now (been thinking of him as "Lieutenant Dan") is still doing fairly ok. Still kinda squirmy and squeaky. Still stubborn about being fed or trying to eat from mom. My boyfriend has syringes over at his place, so I'll pick one up from him tomorrow to try it out for the baby. They're very small so hopefully it will work well.


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## Finnebon

little boy will take milk in his mouth, but won't swallow it anymore. I just sits in there and I'm worried he'll aspirate (he has a few times) if he doesn't swallow it. Any suggestions to get him to actually drink?


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## Quisquose

I've never had to do this with rat babies, but most other animals will instinctively swallow if you gently massage their throat when the food/milk is in their mouth. The potato babies are so small; you'll have to be extra careful. Best of luck to you!


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## Lesti

I'm sorry to hear about the baby girl. The other babies look good. I hope the potato boy pulls through. You're doing a good job.


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## Finnebon

Feeling a bit hopeful, but I don't want to jinx it. Bijou was in super mommy mode while feeding just now and didn't immeditely try to escape when I opened the lid of her tank. I pulled a couple healthy babies off and held up little potato boy/Lieutenant Dan to a nipple and he latched on  He was able to drink for a few minutes before her mommy hormones ebbed enough for her to realize "OH HEY THE LID'S OPEN, FREEEDOMMM". I have to hold him there because his brothers and sisters are so strong that they just push him easily out of the way. I'm hoping he'll be able to get some more special mommy time like that soon!


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## Capistrono

I had an accidental litter a few years back and one of the babies was a runt. She was missing a tail and the stub looked very similar to your babies' stubs, so I think this is certainly a case of momma trying to cull or groom.
You're doing an excellant job with the babies. I'm really sorry to hear the girl didn't make it. You both gave it all you had.


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## HeatherElle

Sorry about the girl potato. "Lieutenant Dan" lol, I love it. I hope he pulls through.


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## TexasRatties

Aww poor female potato baby. You have done such a good job with them. Most people wouldn't have even tried. Omg that name Lieutenant Dan hahah this story is by no means funny but that name gave me a giggle.


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## Finnebon

Haha yeah, gotta keep laughing to keep from being sad right? It'd be so easy to feel completely disturbed and sad just looking at the poor things, so joking a little is best. Plus if they knew the nicknames they had, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt their feelings  Lt. Dan had more mommy time this morning and roots around for a nipple if I hold him to her belly, so I'm feeling more hopeful!


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## PurpleGirl

I love the potato nickname. Poor baby girl, I didn't think she was going to make it, she was so little. Thanks for trying for her though, every baby deserves a chance! I really hope Lt. Dan manages to soldier on, bless him. The non-potatoes are all looking really good!


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## Charliesmom

*I am so sorry to hear about the little girl, not a soul could fault you for not trying... That name suits the little boy, and hopefully his strong little spirit will help him push through. and it's great that he has a good rooting instinct and interest in feeding, as long as he keeps that we can keep hoping. *


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## Finnebon

Thanks everyone. I'm just glad she doesn't have to struggle anymore, I can't imagine that it was a pleasant experience for her, even if she was only a few days old. I buried her out back under an azalea bush next to her little stillborn sibling. At least she can rest now  I have to hope that all these babies will be very strong and healthy (assuming no MC...) if a little deformed, undernourished, chewed on little runty girl fought so hard.
*
Day 6 photo dump

*They are fattening up so fast!! Their pigmentation is even darker today so I can now tell the difference between each baby, which is exciting! It makes taking weights much easier. Boys on left side of pics, girls on right side of pics. They are so squirmy!













Boys. Weights from left to right: 12.8g, 14.8 (!), 12.2, 13.







Girls. Weights from left to right: 10.8g, 11.4, 9.6, 11.5.







And here's little potato baby boy, Lieutenant Dan. Was trying to get a closeup of his limbs (or lack there of) and his body/head clearly so everyone can see how hes developing and what his limbs look like. The more he grows, even slightly, the more it looks like he was certainly born with deformed limbs and Bijou maybe tried to chew them all off, but only chewed the back legs. You can see his little left paw is a bit gnarled looking and neither paw has any fingers to speak of, but it never looked like there was any chewed or scabbing bits. I think he just never had any. He is very thin, I can see his shoulderbones and rib cage, and he's dehydrated. But good news! When I tried feeding him about an hour ago, he pretty eagerly mouthed at the paint brush at east twice. When I stimulated him to potty before and after feeding, he only "pooped" once, but they're like little black pellets rather than the normal sort of mush his siblings make. Reminded me of caterpillar poop. His little tummy is dark, and I've given him a rub to maybe get the poop moving again, hopefully any of this helps. He hasn't seemed to want to give up yet, he's just pretty weak and has absolutely NO chance fighting against his siblings. I weighed him before and after feeding, and he's lost weight, but he was 3.6 grams before, and 3.8 after, so at least he's eating a little! I plan to try to feed him once an hour during the times I'm home and hopefully Bijou will feed him during the times I'm gone. At least I'll be free all days after Thursday for a little while, so I can devote more time to him.














Thanks for all your positive thoughts! I think it may be helping him


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## nanashi7

I found this, and thought it would be heartening.
http://ratguide.com/breeding/figures/birth_trauma_figure_4.php


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## Charliesmom

*I hope you don't mind, but I shared the photos of your litter with a friend of mine who works in the veterinary medicine department of a college near me just to get his input (He has an interest in genetics and birth deformities etc.) Here is what he had to say... His opinion was that this is a case of twins gone wrong. As he explained to me, when rats release their eggs during mating and the female is in no stress, she will allow ferilization of her eggs to happen very rapidly *rats have the ability to delay fertilization and implantation of embryos up to a week after mating to preserve her own ability to flee from danger, and protect herself in life threatening situations.* In cases where she is not stressed a female rat can speed up fertilization and implantation of embryos in order to get things rolling so to speak, the most dangerous time for a rat in the making is when it is in the womb, but once rat embryos attach they tend to be very stubborn and most rats don't miscarry unless exsposed to toxins or very severe illness. The mother pushes her body to the limit to make the process happen faster pouring out hormones to make the embryos stick. Then she goes through a period where her body will stop this hormone production for a time to protect her bodily functions. 

Rats pump out eggs during the mating process, and if the mother is pushing her hormones like this the eggs develop rapidly into embryos. Rarely a single egg will split in two and become two distinct embryos...identical twins that share the same sac, and often the same placenta. As I said before, because rats have a Y shaped uterus they can mate to multiple different partners, so some rats are born with different fathers, and also at later times, such as some embryos attaching during a first heat cycle followed by others attaching during a second heat cycle all being born around the same time, but some premature. 

My colleague hypothesizes that when the mother bred, she bred during a first heat cycle, and because she wasn't that stressed, poured on the growth hormones to get things going... Then she bred again during another heat cycle, where she possibly conceived twins happened. But because her body was tiring because embryos were attaching and beginning to use her bodies resources, her body cut back the growth hormones to a bare minimum to straighten things out, probably just as the twins were separating in the womb. 

When twins separate, they go through a stage where body parts are a little stunted still, a single fetus would have already formed these limbs, but twins who were still attached to each other are still forming, so it takes longer. If the mother's brain closed down the growth hormone production it could slow down this fetal separation and formation further still. 

This my colleague says can result in something like hormone based dwarfism... if the twins could not fully separate as well and had the same placenta it would hold them back even further. 

If you compare the photos of the peanuts from birth till now, you can see that the shortest rear limbs are on the left of one, and the right of the other, same goes for the front legs. When twins split if you fast forward when it happens it starts at the skull *if you have ever seen two faced kittens, cows, pigs, and the like* and then kinda roll forward to face each other as they split. My colleague says that because it took so long for their bodies two split and because their growth was last to start because of the later breeding, low growth hormone environment, and competing for nourishment from a single placenta they could have still been attached at the feet and legs. Also if you look at the pictures compare the siblings to each other, and then compare them to the potatoes. the regular babies have pretty balanced head to body ratios, whereas the potatoes have larger heads. *Much like a dwarf person, short stubby malformed limbs, large head* The potatoes tails are also shorter. During birth, if the twins were still fused feet and legs together, once the babies head entered the birth canal the force of the mothers muscle contractions could have pulled the delicate tissue apart *I believe the boy was born first* then the next twin is born, still with the other limbs attached to it is born... the mother then smelling blood would begin to clean the infant and any bloody tissue *explaining why the girls limbs were clipped so much shorter* 

Although this is just a hypothesis, it seems very plausible to me in general. The only way to prove it would be a DNA test on both babies, but that is not possible, but it is good that you are doing great photos and keeping track of this for future reference. 

On another note... How is little lieutenant Dan doing?.... If he makes it i'm gonna send ya'll a gift certificate to an ice cream place nearby, so he can have some  "Lieutenant Dan! Ice Cream!" *


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## Finnebon

Thank you for that article nanashi7, someone showed it to me before and it was encouraging. Thanks for finding it and sharing though!

Wow, thanks Charliesmom! That's great that you know someone who could explain it like that so well. It certainly does make a lot of sense! Ah the twins idea makes me sadder that the little girl didn't make it. But Lieutenant Dan is (I hope) better. Fed him 3 times tonight. He's back up to 3.9g and had a full tummy when I put him back with his siblings, so hopefully he'll be ok for about 4 hours until I get up again. It sounds like you were referring to a picture maybe, or were you talking about the pictures I've posted already? So are the potatoes considered to be peanuts? I've only heard of rabbits having peanut babies, and those always die after a few days of birth. I briefly tried looking up peanut rat babies, but couldn't successfully find anything. His head is definitely a bit longer and bigger in comparison to the rest of the babies. He looks like he's stuck at day 2 development.

Haha thanks for the offer, that's a really sweet thought. I actually laughed out loud when I read that line and could just hear Forrest's voice lol! I also occasionally think of the line "you ain't got no legs, Lieutenant Dan" and then I chuckle to myself and then feel bad about it. haha


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## Charliesmom

Finnebon said:


> Thank you for that article nanashi7, someone showed it to me before and it was encouraging. Thanks for finding it and sharing though!
> 
> Wow, thanks Charliesmom! That's great that you know someone who could explain it like that so well. It certainly does make a lot of sense! Ah the twins idea makes me sadder that the little girl didn't make it. But Lieutenant Dan is (I hope) better. Fed him 3 times tonight. He's back up to 3.9g and had a full tummy when I put him back with his siblings, so hopefully he'll be ok for about 4 hours until I get up again. It sounds like you were referring to a picture maybe, or were you talking about the pictures I've posted already? So are the potatoes considered to be peanuts? I've only heard of rabbits having peanut babies, and those always die after a few days of birth. I briefly tried looking up peanut rat babies, but couldn't successfully find anything. His head is definitely a bit longer and bigger in comparison to the rest of the babies. He looks like he's stuck at day 2 development.
> 
> Haha thanks for the offer, that's a really sweet thought. I actually laughed out loud when I read that line and could just hear Forrest's voice lol! I also occasionally think of the line "you ain't got no legs, Lieutenant Dan" and then I chuckle to myself and then feel bad about it. haha


*I was talking about the pictures that you had already posted for us of your little babies. I don't know if it makes you feel any better, but in the case of identical twins, they are 99.9% of the time of the same sex, one of the rare exceptions is if the chromosomes split abnormally the female identical would be affected by Turner's Syndrome, that causes some further deformities of internal organs as well. So likely that is why she passed. (Interestingly enough, turner syndrome if the infant survives makes the individual have low set prominent ears, a short thick webbed neck, and stockier body.... what we know a dumbo rat to look like. turner syndrome, treacher collins syndrome, and nager syndrome are all possible causes of the dumbo body type) I raised rabbits for years, and bred netherland dwarfs so am very familiar with peanut bunnies. They are caused by each parent having a recessive dwarfing gene... so to explain that easily... lets say we have a mama and daddy rabbit... they are both regular looking rabbits, but they have one regular gene, and one recessive dwarf gene so we will represent them as big R for regular rabbit, and little r representing the special dwarf gene so this is Daddy rabbit: Rr if mama rabbit is the same Mama rabbit: Rr when you add the two together Rr+Rr this is what you get some babies will be RR...some will be Rr... and 1/4 of of the babies will be rr or peanut babies.... *if you look up punnett squares you will see how I did the calculations* 
The dwarfism that possibly happened to these ratties is not caused by their genes but rather a lack of proper growth hormones during formation in the womb.
*


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## Finnebon

Genetics are so interesting, I remember the punnet squares from high school, but that's about the maximum I know for technical genetic patterns and such. So I guess that little girl was pretty rare! How would you think the boy might turn out? I worry about intestinal or brain disorders from his problems if he manages to grow up. Are those likely? Also, how likely exactly are the babies to develop megacolon? Could I lose them all? Or maybe only one or two? Or is it still pretty rare and something I just have to watch for?


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## Charliesmom

*Well I dont know what exactly will happen in rats, but I know in dwarf humans and dwarf rabbits *peanuts* that they often have heart and lung issues. strange fusions of joints and such, but my rabbit Dude who was born a peanut lived to the ripe old age of twelve, he was prone to getting URI's more than normal bunnies, and he would collapse if he got to excited *likely heart defect* but those are both manageable and treatable. Dwarf people live long normal lives as well. If the hypothesis about the twins is correct what happened here is terribly terribly rare... like one in 300 million live births, and that is why there is hardly any info on it. As far as the Megacolon goes, I would watch any baby with a high white coloring, * *black-eyed white, husky, blazed, split-capped, tri-colored, odd-eyed, and the like very closely, just watch their pooping, you want to see lots of little regular presents, if you see diarrhea for no reason, huge pellets coming out of tiny babies, etc. then you can start worrying. *


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## Finnebon

That's great that you had a bunny to live so long! I also have two rabbits and i'm hoping they live to be pretty old too. I wonder what your Dude looked like as an adult with his condition. I knew dwarf rabbits always run a risk of having "peanut" babies along with their normal dwarf babies, but I always thought they died near birth since their deformity is so big. I'm glad he made it to live a happy life!

So is it only rats that have high white markings that are at a higher risk for MC? Since their mother is definitely high white, I assumed all babies were at a higher risk for MC. Am I incorrect? tr

I was trying to feed little Lieutenant Dan since I came home off and on, and he was barely responsive. He was also breathing heavily and quickly and it looked like he had a full tummy still since last night. He was able to eliminate a few times when I helped him, but he was losing weight still and weighed less than he did yesterday. I went in the other room to eat dinner and when I came back, he had passed away.. I'm sadder than I thought I would be, most likely of course because I was trying to be strict about feeding him and keeping his weight and would get really excited whenever he'd go up .1 or .2 grams. But I guess it's almost good in a way since he might have had a lot of trouble living with his deformity and possibly any other health issues. I was starting to think he might make it when he was putting on a little weight. I wonder why his tummy was so full looking. I was able to get him to eat a lot, but it didn't seem to get absorbed. It just stayed in his stomach keeping him full looking, yet he was still losing weight and so thin and bony.. The poor little thing... I'll bury him next to his sister and the little stillborn baby in a short while. Poor little guy.. At least he doesn't have to struggle anymore  I hope he at least wasn't in any pain or discomfort.


----------



## Finnebon

*Day 7
*
Babies are darker and squirmier and I can tell them all apart easily now. 

Boys on the left, girls on the right. One girl decided pictures were boring and wandered off to find something better to do apparently.







Girls close-up. It's amazing how still they all were for this one picture, and almost perfectly in line! They're all going to be wandering around before their eyes are even open, I'm sure!







Last picture of little Lieutenant Dan during a late night feeding last night. Was excited that he gained a little weight after a feeding and had a full tummy. Today, he still had that full tummy but only weighed 3.5g. I'm really not sure what to think of it. I gave him tummy rubs and helped him eliminate multiple times. I didn't think he was going to make it, but I still hoped.


----------



## Quisquose

So sorry about Lieutenant Dan. I was really rooting for him, too. I'm sure the healthy ones are going to grow up to be strong! I send good thoughts your way!


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## Phantom

I once heard that when leopard geckos are born with short rear limbs or no tail that their digestive tract can also be turned back more towards the inside. So all their waists or most of them end up staying inside their bodies and they die from it. I'm wondering that maybe this may have happened to this little guy?


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## Finnebon

I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. When I started hand feeding him and he was eating more, it seemed like his tummy just got bigger, but he kept losing weight. So it was like it kept filling without being absorbed, yet he kept kind of wasting away as if he was starving. Strange  Poor baby.


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## Capistrono

I'm really sorry to hear about the boy. You did the best anyone could've with him. It really sounds like his genetics were just too stacked against him.
On the bright side, the rest of the babies are looking great! You've got some real cuties there.


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## PurpleGirl

Poor boy, what a shame. Well done for trying so hard.


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## Rumy91989

To answer a question you asked a while back--rats can get MC without being HW, it's just that the HW genes and the MC genes tend to be tied closely together. It doesn't mean all or any of your babies will have MC, but it means they all potentially could. I'm over here rooting for them and hoping the tragedies from this litter are no more. 

Goodness those babies are getting some cute markings! I cannot wait until the fur starts to grow in!


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## LightningWolf

I'm sorry about dan. However the others are looking really healthy.

As for your highwhite question, here is the best way to explain it. There are multiple genes, or high white genes, that can cause megacolon. Most are dominant, while a few are recessive, and some have to have other genes in order to show (similar to pearl rats, which only show if the rat is mink). Because of how these genes work, they cause the highwhite patterns. Depending on the gene, if a rat is het for one of these genes they might show a high white marking (if it's a dominant gene), or might not. Those who have only one gene have a chance of megacolon, but it's not that high from what I know. Those who are homogenized for it, have the greatest chance of having megacolon, and most of the time these rats are high white marked. 

The best way to explain it as I've heard from others, is that it's like a lock. Rats who have the highwhite gene(s) have a higher chance of unlocking it, or in this case, megacolon.

Non-high white marked rats can get megacolon, however it's not that common, I've heard maybe 2 cases of it through multiple forums. But not all high white rats will have megacolon because of the way the gene works. I wish I could tell you more on the genes, but I can't find much on them other then that.


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## SheWroteLove1

I read through this and had tears in my eyes as I rooted for the little potato babies  You did an amazing job with them and gave them a fighting chance at life. I can't wait to hear more about your babies and how they grow up  Keep the updates coming!


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## Charliesmom

*Awwww noooo! poor little fella... and I was so holding out hope for him... he probably just wasn't developed properly... but you did your very very best... as for megacolon this article explains it very well *http://ratguide.com/health/digestive/megacolon.php


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## Limouri

I'm sorry for your loss, both potatos fought hard and will be happy and pain free in heaven. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Charliesmom

*Hey you asked to see a picture of Dude the peanut bunny when he grew up here you go * *He is a living example of how a critter born with genetic issues can grow and thrive. I am so glad you gave them little guys a chance at least, you really tried your heart out, and i'm sure they appreciated it. Keep us updated on the rest of the little guys/gals*


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## Finnebon

Thanks for the well wishes everyone. It's unfortunate and it makes me sad. Of course when things like this happen you always feel like you should have/could have done more, and in this case I think it's true. I should have maybe seen the dangers earlier and started hand feeding them earlier, but at the time I didn't think they'd survive as long as they did and would die the first or second day. At least they won't have to struggle through life with their disabilities now. But I'm still sad they didn't have more of a chance. : /

Ah thanks Charliesmom, Dude is a cutie! My boy rabbit, Finnegan, is half dwarf (presumably) and he has many of the same features. Such cuties! I should make a post of my rabbits too in the future


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## Finnebon

Alright, BIG PHOTO DUMP 
*Day 8* (they were born a full week ago today, been counting the days with the day they were born as day 1.)

Da baybeeees!






The boys







The girls

----------------------------------------------

For some reason I can't post any more pics in this thread.. might have to make a string of posts. Something to do with the picture size I guess?


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## Finnebon

Hm, well this is frustrating, I can't post more than one pic at a time right now.. I wonder why? I have pics of each baby that I'm really excited to post!


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## Finnebon

argh, and why do I keep having this attachment issue? I can't make it go away.


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## Phantom

I use photobucket for all my pictures if that helps.


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## Finnebon

Sorry guys, for some reason pictures suddenly aren't able to be uploaded  But I made an Imgur account so I can still share today's pics until I fix whatever is wrong. Just click on the link and it will take you directly to the picture!

*Day 8*

http://i.imgur.com/lPdKwsw.jpg Boys on left, girls on right.

Because of MC risk, I'm going to try not to name them so I don't get too attached, just in case. I'll just refer to them by their looks. They are so precious though, and they feel like the softest things I've ever touched! When they yawn, it's impossible not to just completely melt <3 Such adorable little things. 

Boys:

http://i.imgur.com/pYyR9g8.jpg "Thick stripe boy" 16.7g

http://i.imgur.com/b3WyjjG.jpg "Dark boy" 19.6g

http://i.imgur.com/25qgcsG.jpg "Light boy" 16.5g

http://i.imgur.com/jx6B8mF.jpg "Thin strip/Blaze boy" 16.3g

Girls:

http://i.imgur.com/vv6iKJI.jpg "Spotty girl" 12.8g

http://i.imgur.com/bgPhkgr.jpg "Eye spot stripe girl" 15.2g

http://i.imgur.com/fTjdJSX.jpg "Heart stripe girl" 15g

http://i.imgur.com/huFL7KS.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/Tof0Tuk.jpg "Curly girl" 13.2g (two links there) I'm thinking she might be a little rex possibly? Her whiskers are certainly curly. Her skin is also much rougher than her siblings who have very very soft fur coming in now. Could this just be a rex coat coming in and it feels rougher? Or could there be something wrong with her skin that I should take care of? 

http://i.imgur.com/Qhi5Q6o.jpg Cuddle pile!!

Sorry this is so late, I hope I can figure out what's wrong soon. I REALLY hope those links all work too so you guys and see them and tell me what you think of the girl!

Can anyone predict their patterns? It's still not perfectly clear, but much easier to tell now. How many look like they have HW patterns?


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## JLSaufl

I WANT your eye spot stripe girl. Why are you so far away??!?!?! She looks a little like my Leon. I wonder if she'll grow up like him, here's a couple pictures of his markings.


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## Rumy91989

SQUEEE SO CUTE!!! Oh goodness! Yes, curly girl does look like a rex. Interesting that she's the only one. Huh. She won't be a hairless rex since mom isn't a rex, so she'll be an interestingly marked, curly haired girl. Can I melt now?


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## LightningWolf

Adorable.

On curly girl, Judging from the pictures you posted of the males she was in when you got her, I'm actually going to say she might be a hairless. (From the looks of it, none of the males she was with are rexes, meaning it's genetically impossible for there to be rexes if that's true). That would also explain better why she's the only one. (Meaning mom and dad were both het hairless = 25% chance of hairless). Hairless rats will get their fur Eventually but around 3 weeks old they start to loose it.

I'll try with patterns though. For colors I'm not 100% sure on them, but it looks like most are mink or beige.

Thick Stripe Boy - Looks like Capped Stripe, or I guess you can call it collared hooded. HW marking

Dark Boy - Looks like he's a Berkshire, meaning he's not a highwhite.

Light Boy - Either he's a light color that hasn't shown up yet, Or he's a mismarked BEW (Black eyed white) since I see a few tiny spots on his butt. In this case, high white.

Blaze Boy - Split capped. HW marking

Spotty Girl - Let's just leave it at spotty. But I guess her "technical" one could be highly over marked split capped. Once again, HW Marking

Eye Spot Girl - Split Capped. HW marking.

Heart Stripe Girl - Um, let's leave it at either weirdly undermarked BEW or Heavily overmarked Split capped, or what ever you wish to call it. Either way, it's a HW marking

Curly Girl - From what I can make out, split capped. once again, HW.

When they're older I can probably tell you better what they are. Sorry for all the HW markings, but hopefully none get MC.


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## Finnebon

For Dark boy, it looks like he has white coming up farther on his sides than a regular berkshire, so I'm guessing he might be a roan/husky like the babies in the picture from the shop. Which I guess means HW also maybe.

Jeez, getting really nervous since all the babies are HW.. I really hope they're lucky like their mother and survive. :s With all the HW is it pretty likely that at least one or two will get MC? With all i've been reading, it kind of sounds like they're pretty lucky if they don't get it and that most HWs get MC.

Yes they are so cute! It's going to be really hard to not get so attached. hm.. I was wondering if curly girl might be hairless. There was a double rex (or maybe hairless?) female in the tank with Bijou when I got her. I'm assuming she's a double rex and not hairless beause she had fuzz around her nose and eyes and on her paws still. I wonder how she'll turn out! What do you guys think about her rough skin though? Think it's just because of her fur type? It feels a bit dry and rough, but doesn't really look dry. All the babies had a little bit of flakey dandruff, but that was just from their fur coming in so I wasn't worried.


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## LightningWolf

From what I've read on mouse websites, dry skin in pups isn't a cause of concern.

He wouldn't be Roan/Husky, that's a completely different gene then HW. It causes them over time to fade to white. It's possible he's what's called a banded, which is a high white berkshire. When he's a bit older we can be more certain though.


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## Finnebon

I'm not sure why I can't post pictures anymore, it says I've "exceeded my quota" ??? But if you click on the links, it'll directly open the picture from imgur.*

Day 9 *


http://i.imgur.com/Iqtj2qW.jpg Boys

left to right: Light 18.6g, thick stripe 19.3g, dark 21.7g, blaze 17.2g.

http://i.imgur.com/BzcE44U.jpg Girls 

left to right: Curly whiskers 14.6g, short stripe (previously heart stripe) 2.7, spotty 14g, eye-spot stripe 16.7.


They're getting fuzzier and so soft! Really strong too and like to go crawling around. As you can see, it's been increasingly more difficult to get pictures of them laying flat next to each other anymore  Someone is always trying to bulldoze their way underneath their siblings, or crawling over the tops.


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## Capistrono

Ah, their fur is coming in! They're such cuties!


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## Charliesmom

*Soooo cuuuuutttteee (dying of the cuteness over here) I wish I could hold one....lol They look like they are getting all fuzzy and thier colors, wow they look so neat. I wouldn't get too disheartened yet... just keep alert, and things should be ok. *


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## TexasRatties

Omg too adorable  I love the some of their colors!!!


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## Finnebon

Babies *Day 10!*

(Again, click the link and it will take you straight to my imgur photos)

Boys: Light 20.4g, dark 22.9g, blaze 19g, thick stripe (hooded maybe? Or maybe capped with stripe?) 20.5g

http://i.imgur.com/j574hvU.jpg

Girls: rex (hairless? She's covered with fur, but it's nowhere near as thick as the others) 16.6g, eye-spot stripe 18.3g, spotty 16.6g, short stripe (previously heart stripe, but it no longer looks like a heart shape) 19.5g. 

http://i.imgur.com/BzcE44U.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qtfOMXj.jpg

Group pile!

http://i.imgur.com/Js6vIVx.jpg


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## LightningWolf

I'm really thinking she's hairless. They tend to develop their fur then at around 3-4 weeks old loose all of it.


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## Soosler

awww :l that's sad...
DONT U DARE KILL THEM 
just cull they are different..... they can all live happy lives its like killing a child cause hes missing feet


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## Soosler

woah I didn't know it had 14 pages xD woops


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## JLSaufl

Please pack them in a box and ship them directly to me. I am melting with awwe, they're SO stinking cute.


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## Finnebon

*Day 11*

Boys: light 22.5g, dark 24.8g, blaze 19.9g, thick stripe (heavy capped? He looks hooded but with a white throat and jawline and color stops at the back of his head rather than at his shoulders) 21.6g.

http://i.imgur.com/IPD0l1V.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/OEe8m92.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/rpLvQeb.jpg

Girls: Curly whiskers (hairless I'm hoping! ) 18.4g, eye-spot stripe 18.1g, spotty 16.9g, short stripe 19.8g.

http://i.imgur.com/nyy1GlP.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/ia5XD0G.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/iXOV6Pu.jpg (trying to clean her face, hehe!)

Their weights haven't gone up too much since my last post since I usually do weighings and pictures in the evening, and this set was all done in the afternoon.
Gaahh they are so cute. I fear for my life whenever I look at them because I feel like I'm about to die haha. It's amazing how they know how to do so much already without seeing mom do it. They all scratch themselves with their hind legs (or try to. Sometimes the most they can manage is to just lift up a little back foot and shake it haha), and they all clean their faces with their front paws and rub their noses and heads. Since they barely have motor skills, it's really cute to see them try doing all these things, they look like they're drunk little sailors stumbling around and falling over when trying to scratch or clean.

Would the hairless girl still be considered a high white? At first, it was guessed she was split capped, but now that her pigmentation is showing better, it looks like the only markings are splotches on her back. I'm really hoping she is in fact hairless, I've always thought hairless rats were really interesting but couldn't ever find any really. The ones I did find were always really jumpy and freaked out when picked up. Assuming she has a good personality and that Bijou likes her, I will probably keep the hairless girl if she doesn't get MC. 

My boyfriend seems to be favoring the dark boy (the biggest baby). It reminds us of his first rat who will be a year old next month. He would really like a stereotypically calm cuddly male since the 3 boys we have now are all really active and love to run around. He would really like a cuddle buddy 

Their eyes will start opening in the next couple days!!! ;D


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## Finnebon

Also, I tried contacting a local small pet rescue a few days ago, and no one has responded so I don't think I'll be getting any help from them. Hopefully I can find homes for everyone! If you're in or near California, keep me in mind


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## evander

They are all so adorable!! 

Thank goodness I am nowhere near California!!!!


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## Rumy91989

They are so, so cute!!! I'm sure there are people on here in your area. Feel free to keep updating the post in the adoption section to try to catch someone's eye.


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## Finnebon

*Day 12*

Boys:
http://i.imgur.com/4okulTF.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/bOH3GjZ.jpg

Girls:
http://i.imgur.com/HrTZjwV.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/3eWO370.jpg

I think I may stop posting weights unless someone particularly wants to see them? I'm still recording them everyday.
Jeez, they are so crazy squirmy now! And fast! I have to be really careful.

And I used to think that adult rats were hard to photograph.


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## Rumy91989

Oh my gosh they are so adorable! I can't get over how beautiful their fur is!


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## JLSaufl

Such beautiful babies. I love the color. They really do remind me of my Leon.


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## Finnebon

I wish you guys were closer so I could give them to you!! I've had a couple people (who i KNOW are bad with pets) ask about them already and I had to lie and say they already all had homes waiting for them >.>

I really hope I can find guys like you close by!


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## JLSaufl

It'll work out OK, there are a lot of really good people out there. There are other online rat and small animal communities. there are also message boards on places like etsy and ebay that you could check out.


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## Finnebon

Yeah, I will have to avoid craigslist because the wife of the friend who asked about taking one rat, is on craislist alllll the time. BUT that local rescue got back in touch with me finally so they will help me advertise the babies. I'm really hoping I can find homes through this forum though. Does anyone know of any other good rat forums that I can post adoption info on?


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## nanashi7

I'm currently trying to rehome rats on the other side of our country, so I feel your frustration.

Hoobly, goosemoose, ebay classifieds are good sites. I made my own website so I can keep updating pictures and progress.
Reach out to facebook exotic animal groups (they usually advertise on craigslist), local vets and shelters that deal with rats.


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## monster_paws

I'm in Los Angeles!! I've got room for one more if you can't find a home, keep me in mind!


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## Finnebon

Ooh absolutely, Monster_paws! I'll keep you in mind!


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## Finnebon

*Day 13*

A little late, had a busy day. Just ended up taking a few group pics of them in their nest box.

They are getting a firmer grasp on their motor skills. They are able to groom themselves with about 80% accuracy instead of just falling over waving their paws around and licking at the air. They can groom their faces, rub their noses, clean behind their ears, and I've seen a few even grooming their feet and tummies. Sometimes they will lick a sibling. They can stand up and mostly support themselves on their hind legs like a real rat while grooming (but most of the time end up falling over). They've even begun to hiccup while laying together in a pile which I've come to understand is along the lines of boggling and bruxxing. They are really able to pick up and move now too if they want. Once their eyes open, they will be all over the place! It looks like the holes of their ears have opened up now too.

What do you guys think of their colors/patterns now that they're more developed? Any new thoughts to add?

http://i.imgur.com/JqTO3LV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UqsRHIh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Cdm2KF9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/JbHQAFT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/CM5ZS2J.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/do1wHzb.jpg

And here's a few that I took when my friend came over. She fell in love with Blaze boy (who is in the crook of her arm there) so if all goes well, she would like to take home Blaze boy and one other boy. 

http://i.imgur.com/h5lGwQQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mksJYxf.jpg

This one she wanted me to take of Light boy and Dark boy. Ying-Yang! (I keep thinking that these two should stay together for some reason)

http://i.imgur.com/km1pepz.jpg


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## JLSaufl

Eee, they're growing so fast. You've been such a great human mom to them. They will grow up to be excellent pets.


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## Rumy91989

THEY ARE SO CUTE!!! I love the pics of the boy in the crook of her arm. So, so cute! They look like they're doing very well.


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## Finnebon

Thanks! I hope they will be good little rats with good homes!

They're really starting to sniff and nibble at things now. Still no opened eyes, but they run around quite a bit. By friend's favorite, Blaze boy, is probably the nibbliest of them all. He's always nibbling me, or on an sibling's ear or foot! So cute. I'm afraid of them starting to eat solid food though now bc of MC risk.. I hope they're all going to be ok!


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## evander

I want them aaallllllllllll!!! ;D


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## Finnebon

*Day 14*

Another busy long day, so here's another few group pictures of a pile of babies in their nest box. Tomorrow they will be 2 whole weeks old already!!

They are probably the cutest ever today! They crawl around wobbily but quickly and when they are standing on all four feet it looks like their head is as big as their bodies! They nibble on everything and carefully sniff things. They lots of times will nibble on a sibling's ear and make them squeak. Still none of their eyes have opened, but I'm hoping they will soon. They like to venture out of the nest box, run around a little and then run back inside. So so adorable! 

http://i.imgur.com/GyB949S.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xuvIR7g.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eOR0niM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hjDpGHq.jpg


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## mnesson

I've been following this post since Bijou had her babies.. They are all so adorable! I look forward to updates and pictures whenever I log on to the forum.  

If you had the chance to capture a video of the playful little ones, I would love to see them in action!


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## JLSaufl

I love their color. So beautiful and sweet. I just want to snuggle them all. Adorable. I seriously could never get tired of seeing pictures of them.


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## Finnebon

Here we go, *Day 15*! It's been 2 whole weeks now since they've been born!

Dark boy, biggest baby still, can be calm sometimes, but still likes to roam around a lot. What do you think of his markings? I'm beginning to hope he is a berkshire. He has a bit of white creeping up on one side though: http://i.imgur.com/ub3caVQ.jpg

Light boy, really mellow, might be a cuddly little bub as an adult: http://i.imgur.com/760Tx7f.jpg

Blaze boy, the most active, twitchy, nibbly and difficult to photograph baby!: http://i.imgur.com/9EfhN6d.jpg

Thick stripe (capped?) boy, always jumps and seems to be listening intently to everything, pretty mellow also when he's not startled: http://i.imgur.com/lmpQ0Kd.jpg

Curly (hairless) girl, pretty active and likes to roam outside the nest box. The only pigmentation she has is that splotch on her back. Anything else that looks like color is just bad lighting from the camera: http://i.imgur.com/b1mH2U5.jpg

Eye-spot stripe girl, seems calm, easy to photograph, cute little face!: http://i.imgur.com/KJlWhuK.jpg

Spotty girl, pretty adventurous!: http://i.imgur.com/PE53KuQ.jpg

Short stripe girl, the first to open her eyes! Hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like she will be pink eyed, calm demeanor: http://i.imgur.com/qZpCt5B.jpg

They're all sooooo greeeeaaaaattt. I want to keep them all. I will be heartbroken if any get MC in the next few weeks since they will definitely be eating solid foods very soon. They are figuring out how to use their teeth and nibble on absolutely everything that's near their face (poor Bijou during feeding time!). They carefully sniff everything new. We held a couple babies in front of our adult boys, and all 3 boys were very gentle and softly sniffing the babies all over. I'm thinking that when I separate the boys from the girls in a couple weeks, I will have introductions with our 3 adult boys and see what they think of the babies living with them until they find their new homes.

Would anyone mind taking an extra look at each baby again and give me a new prediction of their markings/colorations and HW possibilities? Thank you!


----------



## Finnebon

A few more babies' eyes are just starting to open now, and so far it looks like ALL have pink eyes. I love pink eyes, but I hope it doesn't negatively effect them finding good homes! I know a lot of people are kinda spooky about pink eyed babies.

If anyone here is in California or knows anyone who would be a good rat home in California, please let them know!!!


----------



## applekiwi1992

I've found the pink eyed prejudice to mostly cover himi's and PEWs. With those colors and markings I'd snatch them up in a heartbeat.  I love to 2 spotty girls.


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## JLSaufl

*sigh* I love the mostly white girl with the little mark on her lower back. I mean, I LOVE all of them. But they're all so adorable. You're doing amazing with them


----------



## TheZoo

if you lived closer id snatch up your girls


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## TexasRatties

If you were closer I would be getting me a boy  but alas I am in Texas **Sigh**


----------



## FallDeere

TexasRatties said:


> If you were closer I would be getting me a boy  but alas I am in Texas **Sigh**


I second that statement.  They're so adorable... but it's probably for the best since I have eight rats already. XD Best of luck finding homes! ^_^


----------



## Finnebon

So now this afternoon, it looks like all the babies eyes are opening, except 2. But it looks like everybody has pink eyes! The berkshire/Dark boy is the only one who looks like his eyes may be different. I'm guessing they're ruby, as they are dark, but still have a red tint to them. I hope you guys are right and that they will still find homes easily even with pink eyes!  It's really too bad I can't just keep them all


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## monster_paws

So how many do you think you'll be keeping?


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## xxcherrypoopxx

How are the babies doing? New on here and have new babies myself that were born on Sunday. Poor babies :-(


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## Finnebon

*Day 16* 

I let the babies have a run-around for the first time today outside their cage. Some just wanted to find a corner to sleep in, and other were SO interested in everything! I can't tell you how therapeutic and happy it is to lay on your tummy and have little fuzzy babies crawling all over and climbing in your shirt and all over your arms and hands. So cute!! Hairless girl was DEFINITELY the most adventurous and was running around all over the place and was the first to venture outside of the box I moved them over in. Blaze boy, short stripe girl, and light boy were also really curious and running all over (but after a while, light boy got to be his cute cuddly little self and was happy just relaxing in the cave of my hand and doing his best to brux). They all are learning how to brux now, and you can hear their little teeth clicking when they try. Their jaws are also getting stronger and is a little bit painful when they nibble on your hand, so I'm beginning to do the "Eep!" when someone nibbles too hard and they stop right away. They are also easily able to pee without assistance from mommy and a few of them were more than willing to show me. lol

Here are a few pictures! 

http://i.imgur.com/ATW1orq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/K62ogfN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/C2fWEXA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Gt16AXB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZdTOgS8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8nqoGi2.jpg (here's a lovely picture Blaze boy took when I set my phone down and he crawled over to climb and nibble on it  )

http://i.imgur.com/3DfgZh0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7I2YTon.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IgZVrMj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fRR880y.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lJYSZ0K.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kuhr9UC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lJYSZ0K.jpg

And here's a couple of Bijou being a good and patient mom.  http://i.imgur.com/RYi53Ut.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/Dl7bjq0.jpg


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## xxcherrypoopxx

Awww how wonderful and beautiful babies! I live in northern California too and if I didn't just have a litter (15) I would've loved to take one


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## Finnebon

monster_paws said:


> So how many do you think you'll be keeping?


I want to keep them aaaaalllllll. But I will probably only keep one or two. The babies I'm considering the most are Dark boy, light boy (such a cute cuddly little bub!), and/or hairless girl (so active and curious, might be a good rat for training like her mom. Plus I've always admired hairless rats). Capped (thick stripe) boy is also so so cute. The way he stands at attention to listen carefully to things (his eyes are still closed) is adorable, he reminds me of a little dog that just heard something off in the distance. Eye-spot stripe girl definitely has THE cutest face out of all of them for some reason and such cute expressions. Short stripe girl is also very cute, a good mix of cuddly and active. They're all so wonderful though, can't I keep them all?? xD


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## Lesti

Oh, such cuties! I haven't been following up on this thread but I'm so sorry to hear that Dan has also passed  the current babies are looking good. Bijou is a good mama. Hang in there, I hope nobody gets MC. I have a HW and he is the sweetest. I also have a blue berk boy that looks like he's getting a white head spot. Hope there's no MC...
Here are the boys. Beau when I got him home @ 1 month







And Stitchie, my HW peeking out of his digging box







And then here they are wrestling (today)







Beau is winning!

Best wishes! Have fun with the babes and I hope you can find them good homes.


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## Finnebon

Hi cherry, thanks! If you read through this thread (it's pretty darn long now) you'll see that the two babies who were deformed didn't make it unfortunately  But the rest of the babies so far seem to be doing great (knock on wood they stay healthy and don't get MC). 

Wow, 15!! Good luck with your babies! You should make a thread and do daily updates too, I'd love to follow the growth of more babies! ;D


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## Finnebon

Lesti said:


> Oh, such cuties! I haven't been following up on this thread but I'm so sorry to hear that Dan has also passed  the current babies are looking good. Bijou is a good mama. Hang in there, I hope nobody gets MC. I have a HW and he is the sweetest. I also have a blue berk boy that looks like he's getting a white head spot. Hope there's no MC...
> Here are the boys. Beau when I got him home @ 1 month
> View attachment 63618
> 
> And Stitchie, my HW peeking out of his digging box
> View attachment 63626
> 
> And then here they are wrestling (today)
> View attachment 63634
> 
> Beau is winning!
> 
> Best wishes! Have fun with the babes and I hope you can find them good homes.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Such cuttiiieees. I love the otterpop box too! I would love to have a blue rat someday! I'd say that you probably don't have to worry too much about MC at this point since your babies are older now, but I know I am always watching Bijou's poops and tummy still even though she's full grown just in case of a late-onset. HW are so cute, it's a shame they have this higher risk because of the same genetics


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## Finnebon

The babies are officially now starting to eat some solid foods. Please send positive thoughts that none develop MC!!!


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## Lesti

Thanks! And I know Stitch is fine, but Beau is much younger and has a faint white head spot, but I'm pretty sure he's clear to. I hope there's no MC for your babies! Fingers are crossed.


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## Voltage

Toast would like to wish you luck with your babies and hopes none will have mc.
She also would like to suggest the name Toast for one of the babies to further the Toast army!

I really hope you don't have any mc issues. I couldn't imagine having to go through that. If you do have any issues dab a wash cloth with baby oil and wipe their butts with it and rub their bellies. I know it works with some animals and it may help them go to the bathroom.

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## Lesti

Toast, you've got quite an army going 


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## Finnebon

Babies *Day 17*

Nothing new to add really from yesterday. They're just growing up! More interested in solid foods now so during their out-time tonight I gave them a shallow bowl with slightly warmed up apple-banana flavored rice baby cereal, wetted down with soy infant formula and threw in a couple Teklad blocks to get nice and soggy. I also had a few dry Teklad blocks and sunflower seeds for them to nibble on around the mush bowl.

Let our 3 grown boys individually meet the babies again tonight. They were all really good. Dumplekins (agouti berk) sniffed a little but didn't care too much, he was more interested in sharing the babies' food. Pancakes (black hooded) was gentle and curious without being too rough at all. We've always thought he was very maternal and mommy-like  Pippin (agouti hooded rex, not pictured) couldn't possibly care less and didn't even want to sniff them more than once. Short stripe girl and capped boy (thick stripe boy) loved the boys visiting and followed them around the whole time, especially short stripe girl. She would not leave the boys alone and even nibbled on Pancake's tail. Capped boy decided 30 minutes away from mom was too long and thought Pancakes would make a good mommy substitute and kept trying to root around underneath him to eat/cuddle. The rest of the babies all fell asleep in the corner and couldn't be roused for the world during all this.

<3

Here's the photodump of today

http://i.imgur.com/7spVDvh.jpg - out-time set up

http://i.imgur.com/7HJcAey.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/gxYRQ3Z.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/QF27RQE.jpg - Mmm, mush!

http://i.imgur.com/F6qpaZm.jpg - Dumplekins being hounded by little Short Stripe

http://i.imgur.com/oGc5S1i.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/92kSysh.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/KyIDSbF.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/3vD3CR4.jpg - Pancakes being chased down by the babies and inspecting sleepy little bubs.

http://i.imgur.com/QD4EBwA.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/NOEQYcT.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/av60SEY.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/9z31wUG.jpg , http://i.imgur.com/1gusDVh.jpg - Sleepy babies


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## mnesson

Oh my goodness.. I WANT THEM ALL. Cutest little things!


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## Phantom

Voltage said:


> Toast would like to wish you luck with your babies and hopes none will have mc.
> She also would like to suggest the name Toast for one of the babies to further the Toast army!
> 
> I really hope you don't have any mc issues. I couldn't imagine having to go through that. If you do have any issues dab a wash cloth with baby oil and wipe their butts with it and rub their bellies. I know it works with some animals and it may help them go to the bathroom.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Lol. So far we have the original Toast, and Toast's very very un-related cousin, ten times removed, baby Toast. XD


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## Finnebon

Was out of town the last few days so haven't been posting pics. Hopefully I can start again tomorrow when I get home.So I think sadly one baby is starting to show signs of possible MC. It's light boy who has seemed to be always pretty mellow and cuddly. He seems a little less energetic than normal. No bloating, but he seems to be a bit constipated. I helped him make 2 raisins this afternoon and when I checked his bottom again tonight, he had more that were right at the outside ready to come out. I put on a little baby oil around his anus and rubbed his tummy and tried squeezing under his tail again but wasn't able to get them out this time. I'll try again later. I'm hoping he is just constipated, but I'm preparing myself in case its MC. :c


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## Voltage

I wonder if making them fear poop works. Like dipping them in water or a bath.
I'm praying that none of your babies end up with mc.
I couldn't imagine having to go through that, for you or the babies

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## Finnebon

Voltage said:


> I wonder if making them fear poop works. Like dipping them in water or a bath.
> I'm praying that none of your babies end up with mc.
> I couldn't imagine having to go through that, for you or the babies
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Ty<3
I was able to get him to poop thankfully! I'm really hoping it's not the start of MC but I will be keeping a very close eye on him and checking all the babies regularly now. I was trying to syringe feed him some baby cereal with soy formula and a little olive oil (to lubricate his insides a bit) and as he was struggling in my hand he was able to relieve himself lol. I squeezed the sides under his tail gently and got the rest out. It was pretty soft and came out like toothpaste (sorry for the details) so I'm hoping it's nothing serious and maybe he was just have a bit of trouble digesting his new hard foods.

If he has the problem again, I will try to give him a warm water butt bath and hopefully he will either fear poop, or just sitting in the warm water will help him relax and I can get him to poop by massaging his tummy.

Poor babies, I really hope this was nothing!


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## Dinoclor

I'm rooting for your babies. It seems like they got bad luck in the genetics lottery, but I hope that they make it.


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## cookiebear<3

Awww I'm rooting for them! I'm so sad about lieutenant dan though :/ good luck!!!


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## Finnebon

Here are the babies at 3 full weeks of age. I'm 90% sure that light boy and spotty girl are developing MC, and I am assisting them to poop multiple times a day. Chronic constipation with large oddly shaped poops have been my only real sign so far. I will make a vet appointment soon to get their opinion and will have to make a PTS appointment down the road when they seem to begin to feel the effects of the condition.. However, all the babies, including the possible MC babies, are all very energetic and seem very happy and are eating well and growing fast.

I'm just going to guess for all their color and patterns here.


Boys:

Dark boy. Mink berkshire. Ruby eyes. 52.7g
http://i.imgur.com/xAM5wJJ.jpg

Light boy. Light (mink?) spot on back, mostly white. Pink eyes. 47g
http://i.imgur.com/amJq4OT.jpg

Blazed boy. Mink with broken blaze, and thin stripe down back. Odd eyed, one pink, one ruby. 50.3g
http://i.imgur.com/XjosXbl.jpg

Capped boy (formerly Thick Stripe). Mink cap, thick stripe down back. Odd eyed, one pink, one ruby. 49.1g
http://i.imgur.com/cUStQGR.jpg

Girls:

Hairless girl. Fluffy sparse white fur with light (mink?) splotch on back. Curly whiskers. Hair will probably start to fall out in about a week. Pink eyes. 46.5g
http://i.imgur.com/93rnqMf.jpg

Eye-spot stripe girl. Large mink patch over eye, thick stripe down back. Pink eyes. 46.5g
http://i.imgur.com/78qaVW5.jpg

Spotty girl. Mink over half of face with a few large spots down back and rump. Odd eyed, one pink, one ruby. 42.5g
http://i.imgur.com/DjuQ9ay.jpg

Short stripe girl. Short mink stripe on rump. Pink eyes. 49.8g
http://i.imgur.com/y9Rtdae.jpg


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## Finnebon

http://i.imgur.com/Vrz1TKc.jpg
I promise, there is a sleeping Bijou underneath that massive pile of babies.

*gently lifts up baby's butt*

http://i.imgur.com/Qpz1pts.jpg
See?


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## nanashi7

lmao poor mama! My girl already tries to sleep away from her babies. She'll be miserable when they can follow her up.


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## Finnebon

Hehe I feel so bad for her, you can sometimes tell that she just wants to get away. She has a shelf, a hammock, and a basket that are all off the floor of the cage, but the babies are really good at climbing now so nowhere is safe lol


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## nanashi7

My girl began balancing on a perch in the corner: the babies can sometimes climb, but they certainly can't balance. lol.


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## TheZoo

When your scrolling through tumbr and go wow those look like Bijous babys....

"I promise, there is a sleeping Bijou underneath that massive baby pile.
*lifts up baby’s butt*

See?"

oh... *immediate follow*


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## Finnebon

TheZoo said:


> When your scrolling through tumbr and go wow those look like Bijous babys...."I promise, there is a sleeping Bijou underneath that massive baby pile.*lifts up baby’s butt*See?"oh... *immediate follow*


Oh Haha awesome! Yeah I'm trying to keep her own blog about the baby advetures too  thanks for the follow, I hope you like her page! Pretty much the same pictures on there as there here though so nothing too exciting


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## TheZoo

yes but they're all in order and for some reason my computer makes opening pics from here a hassle  so it was like awww little squishies all the way up to now big squishes


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## CJMoore

I just read all 20 pages (well, not really read, scanned and viewed the pictures.) Your babies are too cute. How did you end up with a hairless baby? I think my daughters new rat may be in the early stages of labor. She is high white too. Not sure how she will deal with putting down babies at four weeks old  I really hope your little ones all end up free of MC. Do you find it is harder to find homes for the high white rats?


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## Eden10

Awww they are adorable! Hope the babies make it...I am in Nor Cal, but probably around 2hrs from the bay area...I love the odd eye boys


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## Finnebon

Someone suggested that the mother (or maybe both parents?) carried a recessive hairless gene so that's why I ended up with only one little hairless girl 

Thank for the well wishes! I think 2 of the babies are showing signs for megacolon unfortunately. The first night I realized this on the two babies, I cried a lot for them and was really depressed the next day. They're so sweet, little Light Boy is such a cutie and seems to like to cuddle too, and Spotty girl looks so similar to her mom and is so small and dainty it just makes me feel so bad. I really hope neither baby has it, but I've accepted that they probably do and that I'll have to have them put to sleep in the future, so it's not as hard now to deal with on a daily basis. I'm just trying to make sure they're comfortable and helping them both poop multiple times a day, giving them warm water baths and massaging their tummies. I hope it's helping. They still seem happy and very active!

I really hope all your babies make it too! I've read a lot of online articles about megacolon and seen pictures, and I'm disgusted by how huge some of those babies have gotten in the pics from their bloating and backed up stools. I will certainly not let these babies get like that, it must be very painful. Good luck with your babies and the mom. Start a thread when she has the babies and let us know all about them!  I'd love to see pictures!!

I have been messaging a local rat rescue for assistance in rehoming babies. I'm not sure if their coloration will be harder to rehome them, but I am going to make it VERY CLEAR about their high white coloration and megacolon which might scare off some people. I will tell them that they absolutley cannot be bred and if it is too risky to keep opposite genders from mixing in their home then they should not consider taking any of the high white babies. They are very pretty and very cute little babies though! I'll do my best to make sure they have good homes.

Eden10, I would love to adopt those two boys out to you! My friend really wants them though, but she lives with her parents right now and they aren't thrilled about the idea of her getting rats. She will try to convince them to change their minds, but if she is not able to take them, I will need to find homes for them too. Please let me know if you are actually interested in them!! I drive up to Sacramento all the time, and Chico isn't that far of a drive. I'd be willing to drive to Oregon though if I was sure that the babies would be going to good homes!


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## Eden10

I am closer to the Stockton area (won't put my exact location) if any of the boys need homes let me know & we can work something out. I currently have two loving friendly boys who I know would have no problem accepting a new baby boy. One of the odd eye boys would be my first pick...have always wanted an odd eye, but the dark boy is adorable too! PM me & we can talk more if you like


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## Finnebon

Just a random "update".

Yay, so happy I have potential homes for 5 or 6 babies right now! The 2 odd-eyed boys may go to my friend and if not, one or both may go to another home. Short stripe girl and Eye-spot stripe girl are up for adption through North Star Rescue (I will keep them with me until they find homes), I plan on keeping two babies (berkshire boy and hairless girl). And if the babies and I are really really lucky, the two babies I'm worried about megacolon for will hopefully be healthy (i'm really hoping!!!!!!!) and they will need to find homes. If the possible MC boy doesn't have MC, I will keep him, and be finding a home for Berkshire boy instead.

Everyone except the two girls up through the rescue have unofficial names now 

Dark/Berkshire boy - "Bergamot", because his coloration reminds me of Earl Grey tea with a bit of milk
Light boy - If he doesn't have MC I will keep him, he's such sweetie and likes to cuddle. I've been calling him "Charles"/"Charlie" after a dream I had of a PEW named Charles.
Blaze boy - If my friend takes him and Capped boy, he will be named "Remy" after an awesome character in X-Men (also known as Gambit).
Capped/Thick stripe boy - Will hopefully be adopted together with Blaze boy and she wants to call him "Henri" (prounounced "Ohn-ree") who is the brother of the X-Men character Remy.

Hairless girl - I've had lots of ideas but haven't settled on one yet. Initially I wanted to call her "Momo" which is Japanese for peach because she is pink with just a bit of fuzz. Also thought "Patchouli" since I think it's a nice smell and I like naturey names. "Juniper" and nicknamed Juni. And as a joke, was also thinking Icky, since she's so ugly that she's cute and the name just has a cute sound to it. 
Spotty girl - Possible MC but I really hope not, she is a sweetie too. She's the smallest baby and has such dainty feature that she looks like a fancy mouse, so naturally I've been calling her Mouse.
Short stripe girl - no name yet, will be adopted through North Star.
Eye-spot stripe girl - no name yet, will be adopted through North Star.

I hope the North Star girls find a home soon! They will be ready to go home now in about a week.


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## Finnebon

http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/26955967

Petfinder listings for the two girls up for adoption together through North Star Rescue


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## AJ Black-Savage

Me and my champagne girl Aslan have just read this together, (it took well over a hour) I laughed,I cried (when the 'potatoes' passed away) and thoroughly enjoyed looking at the pics of them growing up if only I didn't live in England and I would of had two off you  I thoroughly think this should be a published book too forsome reason. xxxxxx


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## Finnebon

The babies are now 4 full weeks old! *Still looking for homes for Eye-spot Stripe girl, and Short Stripe girl!* Please let me know if you would be interested at all, I'm located *in California* 

Babies all still seem to be doing great except the possible MC babies, but their symptoms don't seem to be slowing them down yet. Everyone is very active and had some adventure time in the hallway and bathroom for two full hours last night and not one baby started to get sleepy. So much energy!

http://i.imgur.com/bewebOo.jpg - "Eye-spot Stripe girl", *Still looking for a home!*
http://i.imgur.com/OBwuXW2.jpg - "Short Stripe girl", *Still looking for a home!*
http://i.imgur.com/FiDsZG7.jpg - "Hairless girl" I will keep her, but still haven't decided on a name. Any suggestions? ;D She is just so adorably ugly <3 (does anyone else think she looks a little like a baby armadillo? hehe)
http://i.imgur.com/AxpQKPa.jpg - "Miss Mouse"/Spotty girl. She is so dainty and little she could easily be mistaken for a fancy mouse. I suspect she has megacolon and I've been assisting her to poop for almost two weeks now, but she can still occasionally go on her own and doesn't seem slowed down by it yet. I would rather avoid her going through the stress of a new home, and will keep her to help her until it's time for her to be PTS when her condition starts to make her unhappy. She is still playful and active though so there's no reason to cut her life short, she doesn't seem to be in any pain at all. 

http://i.imgur.com/PPEx7RS.jpg - "Capped boy" Will be going to his new home this Sunday with his brother Blaze boy, yay!!!
http://i.imgur.com/Zii0HZO.jpg - "Blaze boy" Will be going home this Sunday with his brother Capped boy!!! The awesome Eden10 will be taking these two brothers home, and I couldn't be more excited for them to have found such a good home! 
http://i.imgur.com/8MNN0jv.jpg - "Berkshire/Dark boy" We will keep him and he will live with our adult boys when he's big enough. We plan to get Bijou and Hairless girl fixed later on and hopefully they can all live together in the DCN 
http://i.imgur.com/wEIFYSF.jpg - "Charlie/Charles" Light boy. My favorite baby. He's always been the cuddliest and calmest baby out of them all, and I love PEW (he has a small smudge on his back, but is otherwise all white). I always wanted a cuddly baby. He also most likely has megacolon. I will be keeping him and taking care of him and his possible MC sister until the time comes to PTS. He seems to be more effected by his condition than his sister, but he is still active, playful, and happy and only seems like he's in a little bit of pain/uncomfortable when I'm helping him go potty. I may buy a curve tipped syringe and try enemas for him soon.


I will separate the boys from the girls on Sunday after Capped boy and Blaze boy go to their new home. They will be 4 and a half weeks old then. Some people were saying they are fine until 5 weeks old, but since their huevos are coming down pretty quickly now I don't want to be too risky. They've all also learned to hump each other sometimes when play attacking their siblings and I don't want that to be more than dominance play! 
Does anyone think it would be ok to let Bijou in with the boys until they are 5 weeks old? Just about all the babies are still ravenous for momma's milk and are still eager to nurse.


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## Voltage

Omg dark boy looks just like my Jorah.
He is so cute

They are all so adorable

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## monster_paws

For the hairless:

Bijou (jewel) is a mixed drink with gin (diamond), vermouth (ruby), and chartreuse (emerald)

Since mama Bijou has created these little ladies, maybe Chartreuse, because she's a part of mama. I dunno. Ex bartender here.


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## hrl20100

I have just read and looked at all the pictures in this thread. I am sorry about the stillborn, the little girl and the little boy 
Its really great that the others are doing so well though-they look so big and strong! 

Do you have a tumblr? I have a tumblr for my rats and I have seen several posts of the two girls still looking for homes (or very similar ones). I wish I could offer a home, but I live in the UK >.<


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## Finnebon

Monster_paws, those are really cute name ideas!! I like the idea where the babies would be named after an element of the mom's name (and booze! lol).

hlr20100 Thanks, it was kind of sad, but not as sad at the two megacolon babies since they've actually had time to grow up and show me their wonderful little personalities. It'll be tough when their times comes to be PTS.

Yes I do! And those are most likely my babies that you recognize! I'm trying to signal boost/advertise the babies on a few websites so I'm hoping they'll find homes soon! I really love having them with me, but I need to find them homes as soon as possible!


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## hrl20100

I'm sure they won't have to wait long, they are simply adorable!


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## Finnebon

Little update:

I've found a home for Capped boy and Blaze boy who went home together with Eden10 on Sunday! And Eye-spot Stripe girl and Short Stripe girl are going to be adopted out to someone who found their ad through North Star Rescue and Pet Finder who seems really great. She's a first time rat owner, but she's done a lot of reasearch and already knows a lot about how to care for the babies.

I'm so excited that all the babies I wanted to adopt out are finding such great homes!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## Aether

I didn't realize you were so close to me! If I had come across this before I would have loved to get a pair  I still have a spare cage here somewhere, too. But I'm so happy you found them homes!


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## Finnebon

Aw that's too bad! I would have loved to find a home for all the babies through this forum, but at least they all seem to have good homes now anyway


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## Finnebon

I just thought I should probably do a little update on the babies. They're already 8 weeks old!! I guess they really don't need updates anymore since they're so grown up now, but I like taking pictures and writing about them 

Sweet little Mouse, one of the babies that has Megacolon  I gave her the silly name because she was the tiniest baby and as a younger baby she looked SO much like a fancy mouse that the nickname stuck. She's very calm and patient when I give her treatment and will usually relax and close her eyes. She's such a good baby. She's also timid and can be flighty when nervous which also seems very mouse-like. She also loves to play and gets super excited and wrestles with my fingers and her sister. She still seems to be doing ok. She's getting just very slightly bloated despite being "emptied" once or twice a day. I think her colon is starting to enlarge on its own now. But I haven't seen anymore growth so I hope I was wrong. 

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


















This is Aoife! Pronounced sorta like "ee-fa". It's an old Irish name and means 'beautiful' (since she's so ugly haha). She's an adorable cutie and get SO excited when playing and just popcorns and races around and leaps into the air with no rhyme or reason and fiercely attacks my fingers. She also likes to spend lots of her time climbing upside down on the cage ceiling. She loves to play but also loves to sleep and most often can be found cuddling up to her mom. I tried to get her to hold still for some pics (an almost impossible task), and once I finally did, she just glared at me like this. lol









__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










This is Charlie! The other baby with Megacolon  He is also a sweetie and as a little baby was very calm and cuddly, but now he is super wild and playful! His ears are always perked up and he's always ready to play and to come out of the cage to explore. His rising energy level is making him less patient during his treatments, but he's still a good boy and used to it so he is usually still pretty calm.









And this is Berki! We couldn't think of a good name for him, so we just kept calling him Berkshire boy, and his nickname "Berki" just stuck (bur-key). He's so big! I swear, he must be only a few grams smaller than his mother already! He's also pretty chubby. He loves playing too, but is a little calmer than Charlie. He seems to like to imitate Dumbo rats, because he always has his ears more down on the sides of his head even though he is a standard eared. My camera phone is horrible and the colors are incorrect, but his light (mink?) colored coat is getting some very pretty silvering in it. 









And here's just a couple pictures of petite little momma rat Bijou. <3


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## Finnebon

WHOOPS. Please ignore that lady product there (and the mess). We're almost all adults though, right? No big deal. >__>" lol Just realized that after posting the pictures, of course.


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## monster_paws

The ratties are adorable!

And you went to Quickly! Love Quickly  I used to get it everyday after middle school more than a decade ago. Dang!


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## Rumy91989

They are all so beautiful! So glad the two megacolon babies are doing well and that everyone who needed a home found one! Yay! Don't ever stop posting pictures!


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## Eden10

Good to see an update! The DR girly is SO adorable! & yeh I still can't figure out a good term for their colour...the 2 boys I took their patches have got pretty dark...in the sunlight they still have a SLIGHT yellowish tinge, but otherwise they are silver grey/blue. They seem to have got darker than their siblings going by these pics.
I was just going to post a little update on them in the thread I made...I don't really have any new pics I'm afraid, my phone is horrible at getting pics! I do have 2 of Boo snuggling in my arms tho...which makes up for him being so camera shy in my other pics!

Here he is...[am gonna put them in my thread also lol]




I have to say he is the cuddliest of all my boys now ;D he happily sits in my arms & bruxes SO loud! Spook also bruxes when I hold him, but he doesn't like to sit still lol!

I will try & snap some more pics ASAP...I apologize for not having many, I'm sure your wanting to see more of them! I've always had a hard time snapping pics of my ratties due to my phone being too slow & I hate to use flash on them as it makes their eyes look crazy & they all get SO mad when the flash is on LOL!


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## Finnebon

Monster_Paws: YES the new quickly by my house is GREAT. Yesterday I got the hot almond milk tea (sooooooo tasty). I like a lot of the cold milk teas too. Which ones did you used to get? 

Rumy: I'm so happy they seem to be doing pretty well. They still seem very happy and energetic so I'll keep doing my best so they can hopefully stay that way for a lot longer! I just wish I had a real camera so I can post more pictures!

Eden: Eeeeee! I'm so happy to see and hear about the boys!! I miss them!! If I could have kept more babies, I would have definitely kept the two that you took. Spook is so handsome and Boo was so cuddly and cute, I always wanted a cuddly baby! Charlie was the calmest and cuddliest as a baby so I wanted to keep him even he didn't have MC, but he's growing up and is getting to be a wild active little baby who doesn't like to sit still at all! I think Spook and Charlie would have been great friends! They're both so crazy lol
I still don't know what to call their color. All the babies were white with the exact same color for their markings, and it's so hard to tell what it is! It's like a warm gray, or a cool beige. And it has some darker streaks of fur, as well as lighter silvering. It's easiest to tell on Berki since he's a solid color, and Mouse, since she has a large patch of color on her back. I need to get myself a real camera so I can get a good picture that actually shows what their true colors are!!


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## Eden10

Yeh they are so pretty...am about to update my thread on them if you want to read more if my internet will let me! Comcast keeps messing up so I keep losing my connection! I also found some recent pics of Spook that I totally forgot about! So yay you'll get to see some new pics of him  he also likes to pretend hes a Dumbo just like Berki in one of the pics his ears are down lol.


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