# Panda BIT me!!! Hard!



## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

I am freaking out right now. One of the two neutered males I brought home last night, Panda, seemed perfectly fine with me. He spent hours cuddling with me and everything.

This morning he was sniffing me. I gave him treats (from a spoon) and he ate them. Then, with an open hand and my palm up, I slowly approached him. He wasn't cornered, he had room to run away and hide if he wanted to. And he LUNGED at me and bit me HARD on my finger. It hurts like a mother. Then he hissed for like 10 seconds.

I'm sorry but I just don't want to deal with this. Captain Jack, the other rat, is just as scared but he is still gentle with me. I don't know what to do now because I feel like I'm always going to be afraid Panda will bite. I don't know why both of them are so skittish and afraid when they were laying with me bruxing last night. I don't understand. Help please!! What do I do?


----------



## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

How long have you had them? **edit** ok, I see that you just got them.

Patience is the key.


When were they neutered?


----------



## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

I just got them yesterday afternoon. They were neutered about two months ago.

I just don't know how I'm supposed to get him out to handle him if he is going to bite me! Frankly I'm a little pissed off!


----------



## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

you can't be pissed at a frightened animal

you will need to meet his needs.. not the other way around

if you rush him he will retaliate & as you learned, rats have a very effective way of defending themselves when they retaliate


----------



## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

it may take a day, it may take a month... it may even take a few months but with patience, love & understanding you will learn how to handle him on his terms & once the trust is there he will begin to respond to you in a favorable manner


----------



## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

I can be pissed that the rescue didn't warn me that he bites. And honestly there's no reason he should be frightened enough to bite me that hard. 

And I just found THREE bite marks on Schnookums. That is ridiculous. She is the sweetest, most submissive rat in the world. The idea that he would bite her makes me fume. I think I may have to give him back to the rescue.

The ONLY reason I got these two boys is so Schnookums would be happy and have someone to play with. I have only owned rats for a month. I am not ready to take on a huge challenge case like this.

Captain Jack seems skittish but he is sweet and he will approach me cautiously. Panda kind of seems like a little jerk. I am not angry at him for being a scared rat. I am just really angry about the whole situation and I was not looking forward to some huge cry fest this morning.


----------



## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Some rats are like that - once the initial fear is over and and done with and they are able to establish that the cage is 'theirs', they can switch to intruder mode. You're going to have to take it slow with him, and it's pointless getting mad because he can't help it.

Don't avoid normal behaviour - being bitten is a pain in the you-know-what but he is aiming to get you to back off, so don't give him what he wants. Give him 15 or so minutes to calm down, and try it again.


----------



## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

And I try to pet him again and then what? He bites me again? Then what? This bite is throbbing. It wasn't just a "leave me alone" nip. He attacked me. I'm sorry I'm just really emotional because this is so stressful and I really don't want to have to deal with this. I'm gonna try to gently pet him and take him out for playtime again (I'll get Captain Jack first). If he lunges for me again he's going to have to go back to the rescue. I really want to love him and take care of him but if I'm always going to be afraid of him, it will never get better.


----------



## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

Awww poor thing is sooo scared but once I get him out of the cage he is sooo sweet! I'm sorry for being mad at him; he just really hurt my feelings. I figured out if I use his blanket to get him out of the cage (mostly to make me feel better), he'll cuddle and explore me and be a sweetie. He squeaked at first but now he seems OK. 

I'm still worried about the bite marks on Schnookums. Should I take her out of the cage and redo introductions or not?


----------



## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

why are the new rats being placed with your original rat & being left unsupervised ??

I understand that you are new to rats... but being new doesn't excuse making mistakes. 

So ok, you have them there. Please take some time to read over the many suggestions found on this site about proper introductions so you don't continue making mistakes & getting frustrated at the rats for the mistakes that you are making. The rats are just being rats. You have to work within their scope.

I know my words sound short but I am not being short or angered. I just don't want to see you make rushed snapped judgments or any additional mistakes that can cause additional injury to yourself or any of the rats that you have made a commitment to love & care for.

As you see, you found a way to hold him & snuggle him. It is a very common thing for rats to be cage aggressive.... so now you know... you have to get him out of the cage before you can cuddle him.

Lesson learned & you will have a throbbing finger to remind you of that lesson & the fact that finger throbs now... you won't ever forget about that lesson.

I know... I had my own throbbing finger once... about 25 yrs ago when I learned the hard way just how protective a Mother rats is around newborns. It was no one's fault. I didn't know she was even pregnant, I brought her home the night before. She didn't know that I was only trying to put fresh food & water in her cage. In her little ratty mind... that great big intruding hand was a threat to her babies & she would defend them with her life if need be.

I learned & it was a lesson well learned... I have never been bitten by a Momma rat again.


----------



## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

oh, a little observation based on several of your recent posts

animals pick up on our emotions very very very well

You are scared, nervous... fretting over everything... worrying about worst case scenarios happening before they even happen... losing your temper when things don't pan out perfectly. All of this can cause things to go poorly because you are projecting negativity.

All of these negative sentiments will be communicated to your animals & they will respond accordingly to the way you are behaving around them. 

Take a deep breath, gather yourself & gain your confidence. You are in control (well you have to be, so get yer head right my friend) Convey that confidence & calmness to your pets & they will respond in a positive way.

Trust me on that one.. I know you don't know jack about me but I do know a little about animals & that is the best thing anyone can learn about themselves when it comes to handling animals. They don't use words to communicate... they really do have a wonderful way of reading us via our presence, our energy if you will.

Try it.....


----------



## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

A1APassion, please don't assume that I just threw my rats together and didn't know what I was doing. The boys had a completely different personality last night. I had my rats in different cages for about 1/2 hour and they spent the whole time trying to sniff/get to one another. Panda and Captain Jack would run to me and sniff my hands every time I opened the cage door.

I let the rats out on my bed (neutral territory) to introduce them. They immediately ran to each other and started grooming and playing. They seemed so happy. After another 1/2 hour, I put them in the cage together. I supervised them for about five hours. Schnookums and Panda got into a minor scuffle; Schnookums got flipped on her back but she was squeaking and submissive and completely unhurt so I let them be because I knew they had to establish their dominance. Since they got along so well, cuddling and sharing food, I let them sleep together, and didn't hear any disturbances that would be a cause for concern. Right now they're all in their cage interacting fine. I honestly don't know how she got the marks on her. They're not deep or long, they're just there, and that worries me.

As far as mistakes, I DIDN'T make any. When I got bit, I was approaching Panda slowly and gently. I followed the introduction process to a T, shortening it because they were getting along so well (as it suggests in most of the material I've read).

I'm sorry it just really hurts my feelings that you would judge me so quickly. I have done my research and know what I'm doing. I'm just very jumpy, skittish, and sensitive, and being bit caused me to cry uncontrollably. It was just a bad experience for me and I was afraid Panda was going to be just generally aggressive since I don't know him that well. I feel better now but I'm still scared. I just need comfort and support, not accusations.


----------



## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

I know, I absolutely believe you about the emotions thing, that's why I was so upset. I'm a very very emotional person and I have difficulty controlling it. I was worried because I thought Panda would always sense that. Well picking him up using his blanket makes me feel more confident so hopefully that will work out. Ugh I'm just so frustrated and upset. This was not a fun way to start the morning!


----------



## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

I have to say, that there was a mistake made (knowingly or not) being that you didn't give yourself the chance to get to know these rats.

Like humans, animals personalities change in different environments. I don't think I have ever seen the true nature of an animal the first night it is inside my home .. it has to grow as the trust in you grows.

You said yourself that you don't know him that well - perhaps the stress of everything, new home, new cagemate etc just tipped him over the edge? I give at least 2 weeks before starting intros (not because of QT, because I can't, therefore often don't QT) simply because it is essential that you get a feel for the animal before you allow it to 'mingle'.

Like Julia says though, it's a lesson learnt.  Good luck with everything. I'm sure once Panda settles down a bit he'll be more of a cuddly panda than the kung-fu panda he was this morning


----------



## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

who"s judging & who is jumping to conclusions... I made an observation based on what you have posted. I don't know you well enough to judge you.

I will resolve this since it seems you are not willing to head good advice. I really don't know why people post problems on here if they are not willing to apply some of the suggestions or apply some of the real time proven results of other's experiences to their own applications.

So with that said, I'll make it a point to not respond to your posts since you think I am just passing judgment on you ( & in my defense... I wasn't doing that). Now I may forget who you are because there are so many people on this board & so many posts each day, so forgive me if I do respond but in that case... tell me to piss off in PM rather than create drama on the public board.

good luck with your rats


----------



## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

Passion I don't understand why you are so upset...maybe my tone came off wrong but I really was not telling you to piss off or trying to create drama. It just hurt my feelings that you though I would leave my baby completely unattended. I really do always want advice. It really helped. Mostly having someone to talk to has helped me calm down and feel better.

Ration, you're right...that was the one mistake I made. I didn't realize their personalities could change overnight. Like I said...I just needed comfort and advice, not condemnations, because I really didn't do anything to provoke his attack. Now that I understand it better though I'll be able to work around his fear in the future.


----------



## kellark71588 (May 28, 2008)

When I first got my baby jade she hated the other rat, There cages were right next to each other and they would not come close to each other. I took them out together and played with both at the same time and it seemed to bond us and the rats. If they fight or seem like they are getting annoyed with you or the other rat then put them immediatly up. I just put them in a cage together about a month ago and i have them for over a year. My rat jade got a tumor removed yesterday and the other rat just sits where her hammock is and sleeps. I got her home today and they have to be in seperste cages and they sleep right next to each other on the inside of the cages. You really just have to be patient. They will love you and get to know each otherit just takes a little while! Good luck


----------



## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

Thanks kell.  I'm starting to realize Panda is not aggressive, just terrified beyond belief. I'll start another thread for his new problem.


----------



## Ophelia (May 25, 2008)

A1APassion, umm. What? No offence, but there's no point throwing a huge hissy fit over it. The OP was upset and emotional when she posted. She wanted to vent and get support for something that was bothering her. You replied quite harshly. Your advice was great. Delivery, not so much. She replied defensively, as anyone would do in response to the way your spoke to her. 
And now that you didn't like her reply you're not talking to her ever again?? Uhh...ok, I guess. You're the one who created the drama on that front. 

CeilingofStars, mistakes were made on your part, but I think you have embraced them since then. Mainly when an animal makes you angry you just have to walk away and go cry or whatever somewhere else and not go back to the animal until you've cooled down. Even if you're being gentle with them they can sense that you're fuming and they'll be more likely to bite. 
I think that the blanket is a good idea, but I would not let that go longterm. Make sure that after he's been there a few weeks and is well settled in you start trying him without it. He will have to learn that you are allowed in his cage and that he can't bite. I am not a rat expert, but what I have said is true for any species.
THIS IS IMPORTANT: Be careful that you are not rewarding his bad behavior without meaning to. Rats are smart (as you know) if he bites you and you go away he's just learned that biting is a great way to get rid of that annoying human who wants to hold him. He'll start biting all the time. If he bites you again, get his blanket and pick him up. Just make sure that you are calm and impassive and not angry or rough when you do it. Make him understand that biting does not scare you away.


----------



## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

Thanks Ophelia. I've been trying to spend a lot of time moving things around in his cage, just so he gets used to me. And all of us just took a nap together, and he seemed to tolerate if not enjoy snuggling up with me.

Also my rescue told me they would take him back if the trouble continues. So I have the incentive to work with him for a few weeks and see if I can get him to relax.

Awww right now he's sniffing out through the bars, wondering where I am! I think it will get better.

You're right, after a week or two I will stop using the blanket.


----------



## Ophelia (May 25, 2008)

Good luck! You will do great!


----------



## CaptainFlow (May 16, 2007)

Whew, sounds like his moment of terror was just temporary. Good job thinking of the blanket, I'm sure it really helped Panda feel better to sense that you weren't afraid. 

Just give him some time and patience, and FOOD, I'm sure someday he'll be your biggest cuddle and you'll look back on last night and be proud of yourself. And you can look at your scar (if you get one, I personally scar at the drop of a hat) as a useful, but never needed to be repeated, reminder.


----------



## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

Ophelia said:


> Mainly when an animal makes you angry you just have to walk away and go cry or whatever somewhere else and not go back to the animal until you've cooled down. Even if you're being gentle with them they can sense that you're fuming and they'll be more likely to bite.


When Fizz tried to pierce my lip yesterday I just grabbed Zinc and cried on her very... small... shoulder. XD


----------



## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

Awww haha KayRatz. Yeah Schnookums is being such a lovey lately because she's so happy to have playmates. She was sleeping tummy up in the palm of my hand. What a strange, sweet little rattie. And then she runs inside her cage and gives Panda snuggles.

Oh and I figured out where the scratches/bites on her back came from! Captain Jack is submissive to HER! He's twice her size! I guess they fought it out when I wasn't looking. Now he lets her power groom him. Tee-hee. Makes me feel better to know Panda is not aggressive to a submissive.

Thanks Captian Flow for the reassurance. I hope I don't scar but the memory will always remain!!


----------



## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

Yeah, it seems like the longer you have a rat the sweeter they get, too. I can hang Zinc by her ankles [not that I would!] and she'll stay that way for a full ten seconds before beginning to wonder why I'm doing it.


----------



## Ophelia (May 25, 2008)

KayRatz, can I ask...if you have never held her by the ankles how do you know that she waits ten seconds before wondering why you're doing it? 

And I just saw your post about Fizz trying to pierce your lip. Ouch! Sorry.  Maybe he is just hoping to one day open his own body mod shop and was practicing on you.


----------



## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

Just a guess... XD I picked her up today and she ended up in the strangest position somehow and she just sat there... XD


----------



## Ophelia (May 25, 2008)

Kay, Ha.


----------



## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

Schnookums is the same way. She is so laid back and trusting. But she's feisty too! ^_^

Just an update...Panda is doing SOOO much better. He comes to me when I open the door to his cage, he'll eat food out of my hand now, and he loooves snuggles. He's still shy and skittish so I have to be careful not to make any sudden movements but he's definitely coming around.

I'm also doing the "Eep!" trick when he puts his mouth on me. He hasn't bitten again but he does chew harder than I'm comfortable with, so I eep every time he puts his mouth on me. Usually he freaks out and lets go, but one time he didn't and I was starting to get scared. But sweet little Schnookums...RAN from the other side of the cage and pushed him off me. It was sooooooooo freaking adorable. I love all my babies so much, but Schnookums is the best. ^_^


----------



## Marysmuse (Apr 28, 2008)

Aww, sounds like Schnookums is your "heart rat".

Congrats on keeping at it with Panda. I was fostering a rat for a friend a few weeks ago, and sent him back early because she didn't warn me he was a biter. When I asked her about it, she said it was because of the URI I was supposed to medicate him for. Which didn't make me any happier. 
:roll: 
I understand WHY he was biting, and I certainly don't blame him, but I haven't had rats in years, and I have two young kids who won't understand why the rat lunged and bit them when they're used to her very tame rats who accept gentle handling with no trouble. I was annoyed with my friend because it was irresponsible to let me take him without disclosing his personality "quirk". I was even more annoyed because it wasn't ME who was bitten, but my neighbor's teen daughter who was helping me with him! (fortunately, she's an "animal person" and reacted very well, she didn't yell or strike out or anything to scare him. And it was a nasty bite- he drew blood.) It was very lucky that he didn't bite someone who might not have reacted so well. 

My 11 yo is a lot like you that way- if an animal bites her, she doesn't get angry so much as she gets hurt and upset. But I'm very proud of her- She's been nipped a few times by her guinea pigs, either because her fingers smelled like a snack or with Rodney just because he was being obnoxious (he wasn't totally friendly when we got him, and though he came to love being cuddled, he'd nip once in a while), and she'd just gently set them down, even though tears were running down her cheeks, and sometimes she was bleeding, and she'd say "it's not his fault, Mom, he's just being an animal." or "I scared him when I laughed." or whatever. She never blames the animal, she knows they're just doing what their instincts tell them to do.

Be patient. It sounds like you've got quite a fiesty guy on your hands. Rats are definately their own little "people"... personalities... whatever. One of the things I like about them is that they're not afraid to defend themselves, but are also usually smart enough to recognize when it's appropriate to trust. That makes them an exceptionally intelligent animal.

Good luck!
Rejoicing in the day,
-Mary


----------



## jabaz1963 (Jun 1, 2008)

Hi, I am very new to keeping rats (got mine yesterday!) and I have also just found this great forum so was just having a read of people's news and saw your postings about Panda. 

I can understand exactly how you felt at the time. I would worry in case I had got an "evil" rat that could never be tamed (I always imagine the worst!). But reading everything I have so far on this website it seems that rats are generally real sweeties but some are quicker to become so than others. My three girls seemed quite happy yesterday and one was even jumping on my hand and up my arm but today they are being really nervy so hopefully, as one member said, their personalities will continue to evolve - they are after all only 12 weeks old!

I have not been bitten hard but today they have been kind of testing my fingers with their teeth! I hope that, if I have a similar experience to the one you had with Panda, that I am able to cope with it in time in the same way you have and get the support anyone would want and need when feeling so upset. I also hope at least one of my girls turns out to be like your Schnookums as she sounds brill.

Good luck with your new boys.


----------



## mongoosedog1 (Mar 8, 2008)

The second day I had Yuki I had her out on my lap next to their cage and with no warning she charged up my body, and I mean that, stuffed her nose in my ear and in under a second ended up chomping down on my earlobe drawing blood. The very next day I sat next to the cage with the door open with my hand in there just kinda hanging out with them, and Yuki crawled up onto my hand, ran up and down my arm a couple times, before she finally ran up to my ear and chomped down on the other one drawing blood. That was on the 3rd of march and my ear is still healing from the deep bite she gave me. Now believe me I was freaked out as all **** when it happened the second time, and I'm still shy about having her on my shoulder. But since that second bite we haven't had a problem with each other and shes a total sweet heart. You really can't judge an animal the first week of knowing them. I don't know what I did to provoke those attacks, but she's never even nibbled on me since then. So just be patient with your little boy. I'm sure he'll grow to trust you and you'll never have to worry about him biting again.

Good luck!


----------



## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

I dunno what I'd do if a rat were biting my ear... I'm a total rat-on-shoulder person.


----------



## Kristinee (Jun 17, 2007)

i'm not sure if this was mentioned or not, but i've picked up a few tricks working at petco (an associate and i handle the rats but are scared shitless of the dwarf hampsters, they're EVIL!) but if you put deodorant on your hands before handling them, and they do bite you (or even if you wear gloves and smear some deodorant on there before) they'll get the bad taste and they will associate biting you with that taste and hopefully they'll stop. it has worked for me many times in the past.


----------



## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

That's a good idea Kristinee!

Hey everybody I put up Panda (and others) pics...go check them out!


----------

