# Cage ALWAYS smells like urine



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

I need help, I'm getting a headache from the smell of urine coming from my cage. The pee rock did virtually nothing, almost 90% of the time they pee anywhere but where they're supposed to. After laundry they urinate all my fleece until it becomes unbearable to be in my room. They never pee on bran new fleece that I've purchased, but they completely urinate anything that just got washed. I'm assuming it's probably because of the detergent, which I thought is odorless. I use cheer ultra, please let me know what's a better option. I've been told that I can use whatever detergent I like, but then others tell me I can't. Also people told me that rat's don't smell worse than hamsters and other small animals, so far I don't believe it. I had to convince everyone in my household that rats were clean animals, only to show them that I was wrong. They urinate on practically anything! How can I make them stop?


----------



## raving_ratties (Sep 2, 2013)

You can't really control where/how the rats urinate, but something to help the odor is to place either bath towels or puppy training pads (what I use) below the fleece. Fleece does not absorb; instead, it wicks the moisture to whatever surface is below the fleece. You need to have something absorbent below fleece to absorb the pee so that it isn't just chilling on your cage level. Also, try sprinkling some baking soda between the two. You shouldn't have any odor problems afterwards.



Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## raving_ratties (Sep 2, 2013)

Also, you need to believe that rats do not smell, because they don't. It's their waste that causes odor which leads people to believe that this simple fact is a bluff. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

raving_ratties said:


> You can't really control where/how the rats urinate, but something to help the odor is to place either bath towels or puppy training pads (what I use) below the fleece. Fleece does not absorb; instead, it wicks the moisture to whatever surface is below the fleece. You need to have something absorbent below fleece to absorb the pee so that it isn't just chilling on your cage level. Also, try sprinkling some baking soda between the two. You shouldn't have any odor problems afterwards.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Tried it, doesn't work. Baking soda does very little to control odor, if anything at all. It's a common myth told by no one other but the company itself. It's just a marketing scheme, so think twice before you even think about using it for your fridge as well, because it's just as useless. Do some research and save your money for something that actually makes a difference. As for the towel, I'm going to give it another try but I have a good feeling that it'll have the same results. As you said, fleece wicks away the urine, making it harder for the urine to go through the fleece and be absorbed by the towel. So what most likely happens is that the urine dries on top of the fleece and creates the horrible odor that I complain about.

I will give the towel another chance as I said, but I have a very good feeling that it has something to do with my detergent more than anything else. They only urinate on the fleece after it's been in the washer, I have a two week old fleece in my cage that still to this day smells fresh all because it hasn't been washed yet since the day I've purchased it.


----------



## Voltage (May 15, 2013)

What kind of cage to you have?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

The baking soda does absorb odours that's what it is for in the fridge so it does work just not on a strong rat smell I am sure it did a little bit but probably not enough to notice.

As what was said the rats are not dirty their pee is they can't help it. The smell of it could also be caused by their diet it affects it a lot. Wash the floor under the cage and walls. My rats manage to pee on the wall and when free ranging they poop and pee under the cage. That could be another thing. 

Also how often are you cleaning the cage? If you clean it to much it will cause the rats to mark their stuff more and more often. Try to keep stuff that was already their cage in it like hammocks and toys anything that can hold a smell so that they dot feel the new to mark as much.

Where is the litter box? What do you use in it?


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

I have a critter nation, I clean my cage almost everyday because the smell is unbearable. If I don't clean it within a day, my room will smell like such a strong urine that you'll have a headache from being in the room. The people in my household have to spray air fresheners all over the house to keep the odor down. I always leave some dirty fabric in there to stop from remarking, but it doesn't change a thing. The baking soda is in fact a myth, I've experimented on it before with things other than my cage. It may extremely mildly absorb odors, but it's so little that it comes almost unnoticeable. It's a scheme, do some research and save some money.

My floors smell perfectly fine and so do my bars of the cage, the odor exclusively comes from the fleece itself. It's not my little pan either, my cage does not smell like poop at all and the litter pan gives off a fresh odor. I use buffalo blue's walnut cat litter and it's been recommended to me on these forums, it really works great. My little pan is in the middle of my cage, but I've had it be right next to my rat's igloo before, it doesn't make a difference. I still think it has something to do with washing the fleece, I'm currently blaming the detergent. I'm not sure if I'm using one that's odorless and I don't know which I should be using instead.

If it's not the detergent, which I highly doubt, then I can try buying them another litter pan. However I want to rule out the detergent first.


----------



## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

I use tide maybe try putting the fleece through an extra rinse through so the soap is rinsed out more. but I think your cleaning the cage to much once you get past the first day maybe by some pet safe odour spray and use that. I clean my cage once a week and spot clean and change the little every second day. 

The reason why I think your cleaning the cage to much is because the more you clean the cage the more they will mark to keep their space well known its theirs. 

Make sure the litter box is in a spot that seems they go the most. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## rayne (Sep 5, 2013)

Honestly, I've found my fleece to stink in a day depending on how much my boys have decided to pee on it (which really just depends on how much they've slept.) it's that reason I switched to aspen bedding in the bottom with a litter box filled with yesterday's News. The levels I ended up leaving bare, and now I just wipe them down a lot. They still have some scraps of fleece to snuggle and play in. Because it's rather cheap I kept a large box of fresh pieces that I can switch out daily if I have to, saving the funky ones in a garbage bag that I can launder when I have a small load. 

I doubt it's the detergent. Just to have less irritants I get whatever is hypoallergenic (both dye and fragrance free), which my son happens to need anyway due to eczema, and it all washes up just fine, no more smell. They just tend to dirty the new ones quickly, and I only have two. 

Long story short... I tried the fleece bottom thing too, but it did not work out for us. They just made it stinky quickly. I've found things to be much more pleasant, at least for our ratties, with an aspen bottom. They pee wherever they want and for us this is much less smelly. I also do a mid week bedding change, most of it at least, because once a week they get the cage deep cleaned. 

Bear in mind with all of that that I have a martin's... I'm not too familiar with the cn types , is there a deep enough pan in the bottom to give bedding a try? You may just have to try different things until you hit on something that works for you. I'm new to owning rats but so far they all seem very different based on what I have read, some are more particular where they go pottie, and some might have smellier pee, etc. Also we all have different levels of odor tolerance. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

Mitsy said:


> I use tide maybe try putting the fleece through an extra rinse through so the soap is rinsed out more. but I think your cleaning the cage to much once you get past the first day maybe by some pet safe odour spray and use that. I clean my cage once a week and spot clean and change the little every second day.
> 
> The reason why I think your cleaning the cage to much is because the more you clean the cage the more they will mark to keep their space well known its theirs.
> 
> ...


I really understand what you're saying, but like I said, within a day they will make my cage smell so bad that it's unbearable to even have in the house. My window has to be open at all times for the odor to even be controlled. I don't even think it's safe to have it smell so bad for a week, it's even making me get a headache within a day. I truly believe that the fleece coming out of my washing machine smells fine, I put it through the laundry twice, tried the whole vinegar thing, and even used bleach. My rats are definitely the culprit, not anything else. Should I not use detergent at all, would that do anything?



rayne said:


> Honestly, I've found my fleece to stink in a day depending on how much my boys have decided to pee on it (which really just depends on how much they've slept.) it's that reason I switched to aspen bedding in the bottom with a litter box filled with yesterday's News. The levels I ended up leaving bare, and now I just wipe them down a lot. They still have some scraps of fleece to snuggle and play in. Because it's rather cheap I kept a large box of fresh pieces that I can switch out daily if I have to, saving the funky ones in a garbage bag that I can launder when I have a small load.
> 
> I doubt it's the detergent. Just to have less irritants I get whatever is hypoallergenic (both dye and fragrance free), which my son happens to need anyway due to eczema, and it all washes up just fine, no more smell. They just tend to dirty the new ones quickly, and I only have two.
> 
> ...


The thing is that my rats are female, people said males were the only ones that peed practically everywhere. Yet I don't believe that at all, my female rats are no different. I look around and see everyone using fleece and they somehow keep the odor down while only changing the bedding once a week. Me however, I can barely have it clean within a day or less even after trying everything that was possible. I can try the whole training to make them pee in the litter pan, but after I soak up the pee with toilet paper and put it in the litter pan, the rats just take it out and rip it apart making that strategy be completely useless. Seriously what is the trick?


----------



## rayne (Sep 5, 2013)

That's the thing I think, I'm not sure there is a tried and true trick... Some rats from what I understand don't even get the litter box thing with poop, let alone pee. 

I did the pee rock thing too, but we call ours a POO rock, because it didn't make them pee in the box at all... But almost overnight they left 95 % of their poops in the box, all around the rock lol. 

Wish I had more to suggest but I do not. I more or less had to adjust to their habits a bit to make things more pleasant for our household. Hopefully someone else has more ideas. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

Patience an persistence is the key. It takes some rats a lot longer to be litter trained then others. My rats have been litter trained between 2-4 weeks I have four rats and their all female. I have no problem with odour. Maybe you will have to go with aspen bedding sense the fleece doesn't seem to work in your favour at all. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

I'm going to try this: http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29247 . Hopefully it'll work...


----------



## raving_ratties (Sep 2, 2013)

Trenix said:


> Tried it, doesn't work. Baking soda does very little to control odor, if anything at all. It's a common myth told by no one other but the company itself. It's just a marketing scheme, so think twice before you even think about using it for your fridge as well, because it's just as useless. Do some research and save your money for something that actually makes a difference. As for the towel, I'm going to give it another try but I have a good feeling that it'll have the same results. As you said, fleece wicks away the urine, making it harder for the urine to go through the fleece and be absorbed by the towel. So what most likely happens is that the urine dries on top of the fleece and creates the horrible odor that I complain about.
> 
> I will give the towel another chance as I said, but I have a very good feeling that it has something to do with my detergent more than anything else. They only urinate on the fleece after it's been in the washer, I have a two week old fleece in my cage that still to this day smells fresh all because it hasn't been washed yet since the day I've purchased it.


Uhm, no. Fleece wicks. The urine will seep through and onto the towel. You are stretching these theories of yours very far before even trying them. I've seen you post many threads before that you're struggling with containing your rat's odor, and it seems that rats just aren't your pet to own. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

raving_ratties said:


> Uhm, no. Fleece wicks. The urine will seep through and onto the towel. You are stretching these theories of yours very far before even trying them. I've seen you post many threads before that you're struggling with containing your rat's odor, and it seems that rats just aren't your pet to own.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I make theories because I try to find the cause of my problems, hopefully trying to help others during the process. People provide me feedback and sometimes answers, yet not all of them work because I have already tried them. I have tried the towel idea when I had my petco rat manor, the fleece still smelled like urine and make no difference besides providing extra padding for my rat's feet. I even specifically said that I'll give it another shot even though I don't think it makes a difference. Baking soda has been a complete joke to me, I've tried it for practically everything even besides the cage; useless. I still ended up buying it anyway because everyone told me to and it's been just as useless as always. The link I provided told me something new and hopefully a solution to the odor problem. 

I've been told that scents make rats want to mark and I'm unsure if my detergent has a scent. I've been told to avoid fabric softeners because it'll just contain the smell and it'll make the fleece smell bad faster, yet it's an ingredient most detergents. This is stuff that I've been reading into recently, because my fleece only smells after it's been washed. Everyone is saying that it's not the detegerant and give me other solutions, but I've already tried them so therefore I'm going through with the detergent change. Hopefully this will fix my cage's odor problem once and for all.

I enjoy my rats, what I don't enjoy is trying SO hard to control my cage's odor and going absolutely no where with it. I'm not asking for my rat's replaced or to be given away, I'm asking for help to control my odor so I can have a cage that doesn't smell bad.


----------



## raving_ratties (Sep 2, 2013)

Trenix said:


> I make theories because I try to find the cause of my problems, hopefully trying to help others during the process. People provide me feedback and sometimes answers, yet not all of them work because I have already tried them. I have tried the towel idea when I had my petco rat manor, the fleece still smelled like urine and make no difference besides providing extra padding for my rat's feet. I even specifically said that I'll give it another shot even though I don't think it makes a difference. Baking soda has been a complete joke to me, I've tried it for practically everything even besides the cage; useless. I still ended up buying it anyway because everyone told me to and it's been just as useless as always. The link I provided told me something new and hopefully a solution to the odor problem.
> 
> I've been told that scents make rats want to mark and I'm unsure if my detergent has a scent. I've been told to avoid fabric softeners because it'll just contain the smell and it'll make the fleece smell bad faster, yet it's an ingredient most detergents. This is stuff that I've been reading into recently, because my fleece only smells after it's been washed. Everyone is saying that it's not the detegerant and give me other solutions, but I've already tried them so therefore I'm going through with the detergent change. Hopefully this will fix my cage's odor problem once and for all.
> 
> I enjoy my rats, what I don't enjoy is trying SO hard to control my cage's odor and going absolutely no where with it. I'm not asking for my rat's replaced or to be given away, I'm asking for help to control my odor so I can have a cage that doesn't smell bad.


I understand all that, but it sounds like you're just stressing yourself out more than you should by owning rats, and having to deal with their odor. I've only struggled with odor as bad as you're describing it once, and it was fixed after I changed my cleaning solution and placed puppy training pads under my fleece. Let me tell you what I do when I clean my cage, and maybe you can make the same changes?

I use a half vinegar, half water solution and clean my cage twice a week. 

I remove my rats and all toys, huts, hammocks, etc. Unclip all fleece from the levels and throw away the old pads. I hit each level with some vinegar and wipe it down. The sour smell is gone after it dries. 

Washing the fleece and hammocks, I add my regular detergent and a splash of vinegar again.

Back to the cage, I wipe down ALL of the bars of the cage with the solution and the ramps. Making sure to clean all of the toys too, wether they're wooden or plastic. 

If you still struggle with odor after doing these steps, I'm afraid I can't help you. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Voltage (May 15, 2013)

I'm sure it's been said but over cleaning the cage can make it worse.
You may have an overly sensitive nose though.
My mom complains about my rats smell but I can never smell it as bad as her.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

Well you've tried everything else and are shooting down everyone's ideas but I'll give it a go, what have you got to lose? Sounds like your desperate for ideas, fleece wicks moisture away from the surface to the surface underneath, were just going to hold that to be true for the rest of my post, kapiesh? Okee dokee that being said

People are saying "put a towel underneath", yeah like that's gonna help, I'll try that as soon as they make odor absorbing towels, have you ever dried a dog with a towel or cleaned up cat pee with a towel? If you don't wash the towel immediately you might as well throw the towel away, it's gross, even if you wash it later

Puppy pads? They're absorbent but not exactly odor reducing, dog pee doesn't exactly smell as much as some other animals, 

So what other domesticated pet do we have that has pee tht stinks that they sell products for them to pee on? CATS!
Put cat litter under your fleece, it works for me, and other users, and it's worth a shot, you could use the litter you use in their litter box or something else, personally I use planet petco paper pelleted cat litter, partially because it smells like green apples, partially because paper is a renewable and reusable resource, but MOSTLY because it's fun to say


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

Like voltage said, you probably have a sensitive nose, nanashi7 also has a sensitive nose if I remember correctly an is allergic to her rats, you could ask her for cleaning tips if none of these suggestions work for you....


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## raving_ratties (Sep 2, 2013)

Grawrisher said:


> Well you've tried everything else and are shooting down everyone's ideas but I'll give it a go, what have you got to lose? Sounds like your desperate for ideas, fleece wicks moisture away from the surface to the surface underneath, were just going to hold that to be true for the rest of my post, kapiesh? Okee dokee that being said
> 
> People are saying "put a towel underneath", yeah like that's gonna help, I'll try that as soon as they make odor absorbing towels, have you ever dried a dog with a towel or cleaned up cat pee with a towel? If you don't wash the towel immediately you might as well throw the towel away, it's gross, even if you wash it later
> 
> ...


Perhaps that ones you've seen are not odor reducing, but they're not all made the same. Mine absorb as well as cover the odor and work very well.

And yes, dog urine is not as strong as rat or cat urine, but it still does have an odor none the less that will become an irritant if left in an area. The puppy pads work great and I highly recommend them. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

raving_ratties said:


> Perhaps that ones you've seen are not odor reducing, but they're not all made the same. Mine absorb as well as cover the odor and work very well.
> 
> And yes, dog urine is not as strong as rat or cat urine, but it still does have an odor none the less that will become an irritant if left in an area. The puppy pads work great and I highly recommend them.
> 
> ...


Yes but if OP is saying they've tried that....and I guess I've never shopped for puppy pads, but the ones my great grandma used to have in her motor home werent


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

How long has it been since a deep clean? You said the cage environment is definitely clean?

Here is my cleaning regimen (9 rats in DCN females/neutered male, 2 in FF males). I've modified it as cages have changed and here is what I've found works at least for me. As mentioned, I whine all the time about scents and have a *very* sensitive nose. I'm also very lazy, a bad combo for rat care.
In the morning:
Change out puppy pads (no fleece). Wipe down beneath puppy pads with either a wash cloth or, once/twice a week a Nature's Miracle wipe. Estimated time to complete: 15 minutes if rats decide not to be cooperative, which is always.
In the evening:
pick up poos, especially in hammocks. Vacuum around/under/behind the cages, using baking soda on the carpet. Estimated time to complete: 10 minutes if Iris is sleeping in the hammock and won't get out.

Once or twice a week (as needed):
Set out baking soda above cages. Spritz ferret descenting spray onto any hammocks/wood in cage. Change out litter box completely, wiping it down. Estimated time to complete: like 5 minutes? If that?

Once a month:
Using hot water and white vinegar, wipe down every effing surface in the cage. Everything. Bars. Top of cage. Bottom. Storage grid. Under pans. Ramps. Spray using Nature's Miracle cleaning spray, let sit. Rinse with water, dry and put cage back together. Use this time to laundry any and all fabric in the cage, using a 1/4 cup of white vinegar in the rinse cycle. Do not use laundry softener. If necessary, run the rinse cycle twice (preferred). Estimated time to complete: 10 minutes vinegar (scrub! if caked on messes, employ baking soda), 5 minutes spray (includ. let sit). 5 minutes rinse. 5 minutes to towel the cage dry. Laundry takes me about 1.5hr.

Here's how I got here: towels needed changed daily. I don't even own that many towels. Fleece gets reeking quickly, and I don't do laundry that often. If hammocks are washed excessively, marking increases. My grandmother passed along her infinite useless cleaning tips knowledge to me, haha. I combined common sense with what I knew. I researched what should be done. I tried and failed other things. Some days I can't do the cleaning needed, but I can't have my apartment stink because of that. Now, my case is because I didn't want to deal with extra work. I've a lot of rats, I've a dog that would like to eat them, I've 18 credit hours as a senior in college going to grad school in August, I've a part time job and an entire apartment to maintain. On the flip side, I am easily perturbed by scents. I hate vinegar and pickles with an extreme passion, I cannot stand smoking and most musky incense. How could I balance the two of these?


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

I just found a very informative website about detergents, it's meant for cleaning reusable cloth diapers. But if you really think about it, the fleece in a way is acting like a diaper for our rats. It also tells you what's safe for them, just like what's safe for a baby. After reading into this website I found that Cheer is a horrible detergent, because it contains enzymes, brighteners, scents, and even dyes. All of these ingredients can be harmful for your rats and can cause them irritations, causing them to sneeze, have an allergic reaction, and even cause respiratory infection. In addition, the fact that it's scented will make them overly mark their territory, making the fleece smell more like them rather than the perfume that the detergent put in the fleece.

I'll keep you guys up to date with my theory.

Here is the website: http://www.pinstripesandpolkadots.com/detergentchoices.htm

Another way to fight back on their urine problem is that I'm trying to pee train them by using toilet paper to wipe up the pee and then putting it in their litter pan and I think it's working. At first they tried to make a nest with the toilet paper but they're getting the idea that there is pee all over it, so now they're leaving it alone. I'm also planning on putting a towel under the fleece, since I already purchased one, hoping that it'll contain the odor under the fleece rather than above it. Either way, it's extra padding for their feet if anything.


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

The towel and the detergent combined made absolutely no difference at all. I'm going to try getting carpet squares made for dogs. I've been told that it's cheaper, the rats don't chew on it, and it's easier to clean. Fleece is just so complicated...


----------



## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

I think fleece would be easier. The carpet would be like cleaning a real carpet but you can't use harsh chemicals and they have to be rat safe sense they will be living with it.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## pocketmouse (Jun 13, 2012)

hmm, I'm sorry to hear that. I also have female rats and a Critter Nation, and I use fabrics (baby towels and blankets from thrift stores, pillow cases for the hammocks, etc) and cleaning my cage every couple days / doing spot checks & regular cleanings is enough to keep the smell down. Are you sure there isn't a smelly hammock or hideaway type thing that you've accidentally left in there/let go a bit too long without washing? if you've really done absolutely everything, it sounds like your family is just really sensitive to smells-- I really hope you end up finding something that works for you!


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

I do believe that everyone at my household is a tad more sensitive to the odor than me, it usually takes me a day longer than them to realize that it smells. I always change the spare fleece that they sleep in everyday, but it's not anything that I missed it's just that rat urine smells horrendously. It can get so bad that it's unbearable to be in the house. By the looks of it, I'm not the only one that complains about it. All over the forums people are having the same problem. It could have something to do with the rats itself, or maybe some people are more sensitive to odor than others.

Whatever the case, saying that rat's don't smell is very misleading to many people. Yes they don't smell but their urine does and they pee all the time which means they actually do smell. I still think the litter pan + fleece idea isn't as convenient as I thought and getting regular bedding is just so much better for the rat and the owner. Hopefully this carpet idea will work and I'm not going to use any harsh chemicals just a brush and antibacterial dish wash soap.


----------



## Hephaestion (Jan 27, 2013)

Oh, this seems to be a big problem for you. Urine smells, stale urine is unbearable. But this you know!

Firstly, what wooden items are in your cage? It works for me to clean wooden items such as huts and perches with cidar vinegar and baking soda. If you have them, you should probably chuck them out!

Secondly, ropes. Doggy ropes or rope perches can collect urine and are difficult to clean. If you don't pay attention to them and scrub and dry them thoroughly, the odour becomes quite horrible. Again, if you are so sensitive and have these accessories, you may benefit from dumping them.

Thirdly, you said your rats litter box is in the middle of the cage. Preferential peeing and pooping spots for rats are corners. Get corner litter trays. If you have a DCN, get three, if you have the single version, get two. Use baking soda or cage fresh granules in the litter if you wish. Corner litter trays also stop pee trickling out of the cage into your carpet, food flooring, etc. Also, rats will pee around their food bowl. So watch this area of the cage and wipe it down.

I never liked fleece. I have a single level critter nation and use shredded paper in the base. This way, I can remove wet lumps daily and refresh the paper as needed. Note, paper does nothing for odour. It is just easy to gather up and replace frequently.

You may benefit from keeping only plastic accessories in your cage, although this will limit your range of accessories. But they are easy to scrub and clean.

You could invest in cage fresh granules, enzyme based pet stain removers (often marketed for dogs and cats), an air purifier and tried and tested nilodor tap-a-drop which is great.

In brief, rats mark everything put this is 'small' pee. Problem pee spots are definitely corners and around the food bowl. Remove wood, keep a close eye/nose on fabric accessories, get rid of the fleece, check the floor around your cage and good luck!


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

I might consider getting another litter pan, but I'm not sure what size to get. In a big cage would it be better getting a bunch of small little pans or just a few big ones? I'm also afraid of getting a little pan that doesn't have grate, because I have a feeling they'll make a mess. It's it better to get small litter pans without a grates?


----------



## Hephaestion (Jan 27, 2013)

Litter pans big enough for two rats should be adequate. At least two is good, but as said, if you have a DCN, maybe three will be more helpful for your problem. Also, not all rats take too kindly to grated litter pans. You may wish to remove the grate for a while in order to ensure they are using the pan first and perhaps then introduce the grate. 

Personally, I don't like grates and don't find that my rats make a mess, well at least not an unmanageable one. The truth is, they are not mannequins, ultimately it is their cage and if left to exercise their own behaviours they manage rather well.


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

What litter pans do you use? What would you consider to be too small?


----------



## Hephaestion (Jan 27, 2013)

I use these pans - http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/rodents/care_grooming/toilet/126867

They are big enough for two rats and cover the corners of the cage.


----------



## Hephaestion (Jan 27, 2013)

I never thought about size before but I guess mine are rabbit size.


----------



## Divit (Aug 5, 2013)

Hephaestion said:


> I never thought about size before but I guess mine are rabbit size.





Hephaestion said:


> You could invest in cage fresh granules, enzyme based pet stain removers (often marketed for dogs and cats), an air purifier and tried and tested nilodor tap-a-drop which is great.


I don't know rats (yet!) but I've kept rabbits for over 20 years. I can't resist commenting that the litter pans you speak of really aren't 'rabbit size.' They are marketed to be for rabbits but are, in reality, too small for rabbits. My rabbit litter pan, in contrast, is 18" x 24" (45cm x 61cm).

Hephaestion, all your odor ideas sound good. Someone on an older thread sounded as frustrated as the OP. They finally tried an air purifier and said it made all the difference in the world. 

What is the nilodor tap-a-drop?


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

I just put two to two together and figured out that if you spray vinegar mixed with water on fleece, the odor disappears. It's made a complete difference from a smelly cage to an odor-free one. However I'm still considering getting carpet squared from the dollar store for easy cleaning.


----------



## smopey (Feb 3, 2012)

Using vinegar has been suggested quite a few times throughout this thread... ;D



raving_ratties said:


> I understand all that, but it sounds like you're just stressing yourself out more than you should by owning rats, and having to deal with their odor. I've only struggled with odor as bad as you're describing it once, and it was fixed after I changed my cleaning solution and placed puppy training pads under my fleece. Let me tell you what I do when I clean my cage, and maybe you can make the same changes?
> 
> I use a half *vinegar*, half water solution and clean my cage twice a week.
> 
> ...





nanashi7 said:


> How long has it been since a deep clean? You said the cage environment is definitely clean?
> 
> Here is my cleaning regimen (9 rats in DCN females/neutered male, 2 in FF males). I've modified it as cages have changed and here is what I've found works at least for me. As mentioned, I whine all the time about scents and have a *very* sensitive nose. I'm also very lazy, a bad combo for rat care.
> In the morning:
> ...


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

Everyone suggested using vinegar for washing and cleaning the cage, but nothing about spraying vinegar directly on the urine soaked fleece. I was wrong anyway, it smelled like vinegar for a few minutes and once dried it one again smelled like urine. Also the whole towel concept was exactly how I imagined it would be. It made absolutely no difference and I can even vouch on that. I even made a discovery, after my bedding was changed my towel smelled clean but my fleece smelled like urine. Many people seem to believe that the urine somehow travels through fleece and gets absorbed by the towel.

If fleece wicks away the urine, then that doesn't mean it absorbs it or goes through it, it means that it repels it. So you can technically call fleece water resistant. Therefore fleece will do it's best to repel the urine until it dries inside of it or on it's surface, making anything under it be almost completely useless. That's exactly why fleece dries faster than other fabrics. One thing I realized is that when I used cloth bedding, I never had a problem with the smell of urine. I'm assuming because it actually absorbed it and didn't try it's hardest to dry it. Fleece never worked for me from the beginning, I'm not sure who came up with the concept but the more we convince people to use it, the more people we'll see complaining about the odor coming from the rat's cage.

Right now I'm trying carpet squares, they're much more cheaper, durable, and even convenient. However I only had them for the first day so I can't say anything more than that.


----------



## Voltage (May 15, 2013)

I've been trying really hard not to say anything but just because you say it doesn't work doesn't mean it doesn't actually work.
I just started using fleece myself and after it being in there 24 hours and patting it to find it not urine soaked I think I can agree with everyone else that it wicks it under.
Your opinion is not fact, you saying none of these things people gave suggested work doesn't mean they don't work and I think it's very mean of you to shoot everything down in the manner that you have been. Everyone is only trying to help.
I don't know why nothing is working for you but that doesn't make any one 's suggestions here unhelpful.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

Trenix said:


> Everyone suggested using vinegar for washing and cleaning the cage, but nothing about spraying vinegar directly on the urine soaked fleece. I was wrong anyway, it smelled like vinegar for a few minutes and once dried it one again smelled like urine. Also the whole towel concept was exactly how I imagined it would be. It made absolutely no difference and I can even vouch on that. I even made a discovery, after my bedding was changed my towel smelled clean but my fleece smelled like urine. Many people seem to believe that the urine somehow travels through fleece and gets absorbed by the towel.
> 
> If fleece wicks away the urine, then that doesn't mean it absorbs it or goes through it, it means that it repels it. So you can technically call fleece water resistant. Therefore fleece will do it's best to repel the urine until it dries inside of it or on it's surface, making anything under it be almost completely useless. That's exactly why fleece dries faster than other fabrics. One thing I realized is that when I used cloth bedding, I never had a problem with the smell of urine. I'm assuming because it actually absorbed it and didn't try it's hardest to dry it. Fleece never worked for me from the beginning, I'm not sure who came up with the concept but the more we convince people to use it, the more people we'll see complaining about the odor coming from the rat's cage.
> 
> Right now I'm trying carpet squares, they're much more cheaper, durable, and even convenient. However I only had them for the first day so I can't say anything more than that.


The fleece does not repel water it wicks it away as we'll the fleece that you buy in store how eve for blankets or other fleece objects have a water resistant a stuff in them. In order to take that would of it you have to wash the fleece and check to see if the water gets wicked away after each wash. After 4-6 washes it should take away the replant. 

Make sure you wash it by its self. Maybe what I said will be more helpful for you to understand fleece does wick away things. Yes the smell is still in the fleece but if you wash it a second time or wash it by its self with soap and hot water it should come out.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## rayne (Sep 5, 2013)

True that about the first time washing. 

Granted, I ended up changing to aspen, but I had multiple reasons for that. Little powdered lab blocks ended up all over it and I thought it looked ugly. It also did smell a bit more in my opinion, at least with my pee machine boys, and it seemed more trouble than it was worth. 

The concept did work though. I washed my brand new fleece 4 times before I used it, with plain old detergent, no softener, then dried in a drier WITHOUT a dryer sheet, and it seemed to work just fine. Had towels under the fleece, and I always had damp towels and dry fleece. 

Still found it smellier though. Though admittedly I wasn't changing it every day. And for some reason the food gunk sticking to it grossed me out LOL . 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

Voltage said:


> I've been trying really hard not to say anything but just because you say it doesn't work doesn't mean it doesn't actually work.
> I just started using fleece myself and after it being in there 24 hours and patting it to find it not urine soaked I think I can agree with everyone else that it wicks it under.
> Your opinion is not fact, you saying none of these things people gave suggested work doesn't mean they don't work and I think it's very mean of you to shoot everything down in the manner that you have been. Everyone is only trying to help.
> I don't know why nothing is working for you but that doesn't make any one 's suggestions here unhelpful.
> ...


I'm glad everyone is trying to help so we could find a way to resolve this issue. However I wont lie, if what everyone suggests doesn't work, I'm going to tell them straight up that it isn't working and I'll explain my experience. It's not rude or mean, just the truth. Sorry, I'm just a straight forward person and many people somehow sense some sort of anger in my text, but I'm not angry and I'm not sure why people put emotion into text. I've spent plenty of money with all these suggestions, even after I was certain that it wasn't going to work, only to confirm that what I'm saying was the truth. I'm not sure why my experience has been much different than others, that sort of frustrates me because then I start believing that I'm doing something wrong. But trust me, I'm not here just to stir up something.

Anyway I moved onto carpet squares, fleece just has way too many problems.


----------



## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

Maybe when you answer someone to make it sound like your not being rude about it thank them then explain how it didn't work for you. Most of the time when I was reading your message on this thread to me or anyone I sensed that you weren't being straight forward but acting like a "no it all" when I was reading you responses.

Also sometimes when someone suggested something you would say it doesn't work at all. But you could have said it didn't work for me instead of telling them they were wrong. For example when you said I was wasting my money on baking soda and that you did research on it. I found it rude when I read it because of the wording and because it works for me and many others. But to you it doesn't and now thinking that you have a sensitive nose is probably why you don't find it works for you, also I find depending in the brand of baking soda changes the experience of it I had no name stuff and it did nothing but the brand names work. 

That's my suggestions and opinion on why people think your responses are coming off rude. I hope that helps you to maybe find away to change how you answer people so they don't find it that way.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Voltage (May 15, 2013)

Trenix said:


> I'm glad everyone is trying to help so we could find a way to resolve this issue. However I wont lie, if what everyone suggests doesn't work, I'm going to tell them straight up that it isn't working and I'll explain my experience. It's not rude or mean, just the truth. Sorry, I'm just a straight forward person and many people somehow sense some sort of anger in my text, but I'm not angry and I'm not sure why people put emotion into text. I've spent plenty of money with all these suggestions, even after I was certain that it wasn't going to work, only to confirm that what I'm saying was the truth. I'm not sure why my experience has been much different than others, that sort of frustrates me because then I start believing that I'm doing something wrong. But trust me, I'm not here just to stir up something.
> 
> Anyway I moved onto carpet squares, fleece just has way too many problems.


It's fine to say it doesn't work for you but to tell us that we are wasting our money by buying baking soda is to say the least, insulting.
I mean sure if it doesn't work for you, you don't have to use it but saying we are wasting our money isn't a truth. 
We are using these things because they work for us, not because we are too stupid to realize it doesn't work and have to be told so.

I can't imagine carpet squares being easier to clean but I'm not going to say you are wasting your money.
But regardless I hope they do work better for you.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Trenix (Aug 30, 2013)

Mitsy said:


> Maybe when you answer someone to make it sound like your not being rude about it thank them then explain how it didn't work for you. Most of the time when I was reading your message on this thread to me or anyone I sensed that you weren't being straight forward but acting like a "no it all" when I was reading you responses.
> 
> Also sometimes when someone suggested something you would say it doesn't work at all. But you could have said it didn't work for me instead of telling them they were wrong. For example when you said I was wasting my money on baking soda and that you did research on it. I found it rude when I read it because of the wording and because it works for me and many others. But to you it doesn't and now thinking that you have a sensitive nose is probably why you don't find it works for you, also I find depending in the brand of baking soda changes the experience of it I had no name stuff and it did nothing but the brand names work.
> 
> ...


I really think you're blowing things out of proportion, I told everyone that baking soda doesn't work and is a waste of money, because I've experimented on it with not only my cage but other odors as well. You could even read into it by searching the internet. That wasn't insulting and don't take thing so personal. That's like you offending me saying I have a sensitive nose, which I truly believe that I don't have. As I already said, it takes me a day longer than the people in my household to be able to sense the odor.



Voltage said:


> It's fine to say it doesn't work for you but to tell us that we are wasting our money by buying baking soda is to say the least, insulting.
> I mean sure if it doesn't work for you, you don't have to use it but saying we are wasting our money isn't a truth.
> We are using these things because they work for us, not because we are too stupid to realize it doesn't work and have to be told so.
> 
> ...


I'm just trying to inform you guys, because maybe the baking soda never really made a difference. It could of been just a placebo effect that made you believe that it did. The carpet squares are working great actually, it's already been two days in and they're holding in the odor pretty well. I've yet to clean them, but they definitely seem easier because all I got to do is take them out, brush them with antibacterial dish soap and water, and leave them outside to dry. It saves a whole lot more money and is WAY more efficient.


----------



## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

Trenix said:


> I really think you're blowing things out of proportion, I told everyone that baking soda doesn't work and is a waste of money, because I've experimented on it with not only my cage but other odors as well. You could even read into it by searching the internet. That wasn't insulting and don't take thing so personal. That's like you offending me saying I have a sensitive nose, which I truly believe that I don't have. As I already said, it takes me a day longer than the people in my household to be able to sense the odor.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just trying to inform you guys, because maybe the baking soda never really made a difference. It could of been just a placebo effect that made you believe that it did. The carpet squares are working great actually, it's already been two days in and they're holding in the odor pretty well. I've yet to clean them, but they definitely seem easier because all I got to do is take them out, brush them with antibacterial dish soap and water, and leave them outside to dry. It saves a whole lot more money and is WAY more efficient.


I was trying to help you with how to word things so maybe people think you weren't sounding rude.I wasn't meaning to sound rude when I used the baking soda as an example I used it to show how it sounded rude to me. I wasn't blowing anything out of proportion in my opinion I thought I was being helpful with my answer. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Hephaestion (Jan 27, 2013)

To be honest Trenix, people on this thread have done their utmost to help with your problem. All suggestions have been offered openly and cordially in an attempt to assist you rid yourself of an odour problem that most others don't experience. I am sorry that odour or whatever it is, is a problem for you and your family/housemates/etc. 

The blunt truth is that those who practise good husbandry have no reason to complain of an outrageous smell of pee simply because it doesn't exist. Frankly, I think this thread has expired. 

I feel your reception of help and suggestions from the rat community, a lot of them wise in their years of rat keeping, has been largely dismissive. Have you considered that rats or indeed any living thing that urinates may not be the pet for you! How about a pet rock?

In short, I will likely be censored for this post but I really respect the array of experiences and the time people devote to sharing their experiences in order to better the appreciation of rats and assist in any issues that might arise in their keeping. Your attitude has not at all been convivial during this discussion and has displayed something of a lack of appreciation of people's willingness to help and assist you. Please try to be a little more grateful.


----------



## Voltage (May 15, 2013)

The thing is, I didn't say you have an overly sensitive nose. I said you may have one. As in I'm suggesting the possibility of you having a sensitive nose in a way for you to agree or disagree.
Where as you are telling me that I'm wasting my money on a product that works for me. What makes you know better than me, what makes your personal experience more conclusive than mine. 
I find this highly offensive because I feel like you are talking down to anyone who uses baking soda or believes that fleece works. 
I'm just going to stop there cause I don't have anything nice to say

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

I think that it is very hard to convey your experiences over the Internet, and I'm sure no one was meaning to be rude guys... I really think it's just miscommunication and people reacting to it. 
Things work for different people. Best of luck to everyone with their fur babies....

For me, I just keep the shelves bare and wipe them twice daily. No smell. They have blankets, hammocks and I give them rolls of paper and tissue paper that they shred and have fun with and nest with... So... 

Oh yeah on the bottom I use kaytee clean and cozy.


<3 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## BasmatiRice (Feb 11, 2012)

I haven't read the thread as it is getting enormous but I use straw or wooden pellets for the bottom/toilets and they work pretty well, specially the wooden ones. I have to change it every week, which isn't really a problem since my older girl, who is in the bigger cage, is potty trained, I only have to fill a big corner toilet and one or two hammy toilets for her 

My baby girls' cage doesn't have any smell yet, but as they've been in the cage for a week now I'm going to change the bottom anyway. I might even put a corner toilet and fill only that to encourage them to use it.

I stopped using fleece because it seemed to smell after a day, so I have plastic shelves that I wipe with anti-bacterial wipes everyday and when I see stray pees.

I also bought a small enough broom and shovel that I use to sweep the bottom of the big cage every other day for pellets or "dust" and twice a month I take the bottom tray out and clean it with diluted bleach (I usually wipe the tray after each sweep) to make sure it doesn't have any smells. 

I do have hammocks and I usually switch all of them every week or two weeks depending on their state (as I said, my big girl is toilet trained but I had to change it every two-three days when I had two girls though). I put everything in the washing machine and wash it at 90º with plenty of soap  they may not last long but at least I'm sure they're clean and don't smell!

Some days are worse than others when it comes to smells, sometimes I just cleaned the cage and it smells like pee to me, but when I get near the cage and sniff it I can't find where the smell is coming from... Sometimes I sniff my girl to see if it's her who stinks and, so far, it never was heh, but if any of your rats smell you can always try to bathe them and wash them with dish soap.

Also, I figured some foods made my rats pee/poo smell, like some vegetables and "human" food, so I cut it down to the indispensable amount needed and (not wanting to offend anyone here) only give them fresh fruit and veggies kind of as a treat that I can give everyday.

I hope you can get past this smelly problem!


----------

