# "Accidentally" adopted a rat...



## margar (Apr 10, 2010)

See, We recently "accidentally" adopted a rat. We needed to feed our pet snake, but he wouldn't go for the rat (I think the guy was too big for our snake) So we took the rat away from the snake and put him in an aquarium with some pine bedding. We decided it could be fun to have a pet rat, as we felt bad returning him to the snake cage for a second try, or back to the store.

But I'm worried that, being raised as a feeder, not a pet, and being an "only-rat" might not be ideal, and I'm wondering if former snake-food can become a fun companion. I already got bitten pretty bad, when petting him. I got close to his neck and he didn't like that. Bled pretty bad.

Just FYI, we have a wheel, and a hollow log in the cage, plus a food bowl and water bottle.
We also have a big clear ball for him to run around in (he either is scared or hasn't figured out what it's for cuz he just sits in it). We have a cat and don't really want to let him run free, especially since he's brand new.

What are your thoughts on this situation? I'm still wondering what to do as far as getting him to trust us and if he can become a nice boy, or if he'll always be kind of "damaged". I think I'd like to maybe get him a companion but I'm just so confused as to where to begin.


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## mamahase (Apr 5, 2010)

Firstly the pine is really bad for rats, I would head out to the nearest pet store and get a bag of carefresh or yesterday's news as soon as possible. This website is a great resource for any newbie rat owner  

As for feeder rats, I got two girls from petcoe before I realized that they were meant as feeders. It took a while since they were extremely skittish but now they are lovely, friendly girls. The poor rat had just been in enclosed area with a snake...he/she is probably terrified which is when rats are prone to bite. 

Is it a boy or a girl?


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## Decorus Insolitus (Apr 10, 2010)

I must say - I don't know how long you've been doing it for but you *must not * feed live food to your snake! To start, if your snake doesn't eat it straight away then the rat/mouse could get savvy and gnaw on your snake. If this happens, your snake will get stressed and refuse to eat. This gives the 'food' plenty of time to keep going at your snake and I have heard many stories of snakes losing their tails this way. Please, for your snakes sake, don't do this any more!
On the other matter, all I can suggest is lots of love. I imagine though that after being in a vivarium with a snake, your new rattie will be scarred for a long time, if not for life


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## margar (Apr 10, 2010)

Decorus Insolitus said:


> I must say - I don't know how long you've been doing it for but you *must not * feed live food to your snake! To start, if your snake doesn't eat it straight away then the rat/mouse could get savvy and gnaw on your snake. If this happens, your snake will get stressed and refuse to eat. This gives the 'food' plenty of time to keep going at your snake and I have heard many stories of snakes losing their tails this way. Please, for your snakes sake, don't do this any more!
> On the other matter, all I can suggest is lots of love. I imagine though that after being in a vivarium with a snake, your new rattie will be scarred for a long time, if not for life


Don't tell me what or how to feed my snake, that's not what I asked. I've had it for 4 years and it's fine. I know not to leave rats in with the snake, we supervise the feeding. I've owned 2 snakes for a total of 7 years. Besides, what do you think wild snakes eat? LIVE food *eye roll*
sorry to be bitchy, but seriously.

As for the rat, we didn't JUST try to feed it to the snake, that was about 2 weeks ago. We've been gently petting him (it's a boy) a few times a day, and he's starting to get used to it, although I'm a little skittish about it, still. 

I've heard between cedar and pine, pine isn't AS bad, but I definitely plan to stop using the pine soon.

My main concern is simply how to get this guy to be gentle (he's not exactly aggressive but I'm just nervous).

EDIT: Minor breakthrough! I put some vanilla yogurt in the palm of my hand and put it in the cage, flat. he tasted my finger (took willpower for me not to flinch!) but he found the yogurt and enjoyed it! I know it's a small step, but I ultimately reassuring! <3


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## sawyerashton (Dec 14, 2009)

Aspen shavings are fine. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2755138 They are very cheap and can be found in that same section as the pine in the pet stores. I know around here, the local walmart does not carry aspen. I have to go to Petsmart. 

Many people will tell you that you should get another rat soon. "rats are social animals and like to be in groups." I know you already mentioned that you were thinking about it so I'd say it would be a great idea. It's also fun to watch them interact with each other. It could also help to socialize him a bit. If he see's his buddy coming up to you and letting you hold him, he may be more inclined.

I have a similar problem as you about letting him out to play. I'm afraid that my dog's idea of playing with the rats may not be the most humane. I take my girls in the bathroom, which has no place for escape and block off the doorway. They jump in and out of the tub and run all over the place climbing on me. 

This is also how I got my girls to finally warm up to me. 

I'm sure you've found this already, but food should be of the 'lab block' variety and not those seed mixes. Petsmart sells Mazuri rat and mouse food http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754059 One bag lasts about a month for my 4 girls. 

Toys are so easy and cheap for a rat. I save all used cardboard boxes and paper towel rolls for them. They love to play with just about anything. A plethera of toys can be found at those dollar stores.

As for him warming up to you, it just takes time. I've had my 4 girls for about 4 months and 3 of them are perfectly fine with me and one of them is still a little skittish with me. I do see improvements with her though. Just keep trying and there will be small steps. 

**Note: I know I suggest many "cheap" things, that is not any implication on you, it is what I have done for my girls.


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## margar (Apr 10, 2010)

Thanks a lot!
Even just today having looked around rat websites, I've gotten a lot of encouragement and direction.

As for the food- I'll switch that soon. I've read that dried corn is not the best and those seed mixes have dried corn in them! I like to give Pete fruits and veggies (he LOVES broccoli!) so I can certainly keep the diet interesting for him. I always have nuts and yogurt around. 
Yay, I feel so much more encourged now. I've always known rats make great pets and I feel a lot better now.

BTW are raw almonds ok??


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## sawyerashton (Dec 14, 2009)

My girls LOVE nuts like that. I get those bags of mixed nuts in the shells and give them a couple each week. They love opening them for that prize inside. 

This morning for a special treat, they got a little bit of cheerios in chocolate soy milk. 

I also recently added some pvc pipe joints from Lowes as tunnels and they LOVE them. They were like 3 bucks a piece. 


what kind of snake do you have by the way? I've never had snakes, but am thinking of getting one in the future, but I want something small (that stays small). 

I've been looking into getting a tarantula. I'm leaning towards getting a Greenbottle Blue
http://www.bighairyspiders.com/cyaneopubescens.shtml

This is the link to my cage thread. 
http://www.ratforum.com/index.php/topic,21260.0.html


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## margar (Apr 10, 2010)

well I have raw almonds that are not in the shell, I just wanted to make sure it would be safe for him, but I'll get some shelled nuts too (I can't believe they can get them open... I can't get them open half the time, even WITH a nutcracker, lol!)

As for the snake- he's (or she not sure) a ball python. they get to a max of 6 feet and eat a rat every 2weeks when grown. (kinda sadistic to own a snake and a rat, I know, but such is life, all things must feed to live, and the pet rat is in a different room than the snake). Ball pythons are docile, neat-looking, and easy to care for.


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## leesha (Feb 15, 2010)

It's not a good idea to feed a snake live food. It's incredibly cruel and dangerous. I'm a snake lover, have snakes of my own, but it's not right to feed live. I know you already gripped someone out, but I had to put my two cents in. Yes, wild snakes eat rats, but your snake it not wild. As for the rat, he'll probably come around. Get him a cage mate, spend a lot of time with him, give him time to come around. All of my girls were being sold as feeders and they're the sweetest rats you could ask for.


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## margar (Apr 10, 2010)

Leesha said:


> It's not a good idea to feed a snake live food. It's incredibly cruel and dangerous. I'm a snake lover, have snakes of my own, but it's not right to feed live. I know you already gripped someone out, but I had to put my two cents in. Yes, wild snakes eat rats, but your snake it not wild. As for the rat, he'll probably come around. Get him a cage mate, spend a lot of time with him, give him time to come around. All of my girls were being sold as feeders and they're the sweetest rats you could ask for.


Look, I understand where you're all coming from, not wanting me to feed him live rats, but I'm not gonna turn to force-feeding dead things to a creature who has survived on a natural way of killing it's own prey all its life. Snakes eat rodents, that's how the world works.

It ends now, with all respect, please.


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## leesha (Feb 15, 2010)

Edit: Never mind, it's not worth arguing over.


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## margar (Apr 10, 2010)

ema-leigh said:


> I agree with Margar a snake has to eat and feeding live, whilst it is rather cruel, is just how nature works. I personally never kept a snake because I wouldnt be able to feed them live or dead rodents. I love all rats too much, and Im a big suck for animals. But Im looking more into the garter snake, who can be fed a diet of fish and suppliments.


Garter snakes are adorable. My mom found a baby one once and kept him. He was so cute- he had a perfect star around his eye, like Ace Frehley from Kiss so we named him Ace  Unfortunately, he didn't last long...



ema-leigh said:


> Moving back to answering your questions. Pine is REALLY bad for them, the resign in the wood is toxic and it will be constantly irritating his respitory system until hes on a more suitable bedding. I use newspaper, its really easy to clean up (If done often, I clean daily) and its cheap. You can put a few sheets on the bottom, then shred some into smaller peices and they LOVE it. The other beddings such as carefresh I find to be way to expensive and even dusty in some cases. I also had a case of mites bought in from petstore bedding a few months ago.


I have the day off today, I'll see if I can get the cage in better order. We have some money in the savings towards a new cage, so in the meantime, I'll get rid of the pine.



ema-leigh said:


> Aquariums are not really ideal for rats because they dont offer the ventilation they need. However you can adapt them so they are more suitable. As they dont have bars for them to climb, they will need extra 'play time' and toys in their cages. You can get rope and baby toys from the dollar store which work awesome. You will also need to clean the inside and outside of the glass of the tank daily, or every second day to prevent amonia build up. Which if left can irriate him and lead to respitory infections.


I definitely plan to make fun stuff for him to climb on. I'm gonna get a rope and make a hidey out of a shoe box with a ramp... We also got a water bottle to freeze and put in there on warm days.



ema-leigh said:


> Feeder rats can be AWESOME pets. You have him young so your already ahead of the game. If you handle and socialize him lots he will warm up to you quickly. Put the cage in a high traffic area of your home so he can hear, smell and watch everything going on - plus get lots of attention from passer bys.


Yeah, it's just my boyfriend and I here, and Pete's in the computer room, where we spend a decent amount of time, but I could move him into the living room (I'd have to figure out where to put him in the tiny apartment!)



ema-leigh said:


> Offer treats such as baby food, apple sauce, ensure or sugar free yoghurt that he will have to sit and lick from a spoon or your finger.


I've donethis and he loves it. As it turns out, it's mostly my own fear making things tough. I didn't realize rats will gently nibble, so I always thought I was about to get bitten (again) but I'm fine now.



ema-leigh said:


> I would also advise setting aside an emergency vet fund, just incase, as you dont know anything about his health history and vet bills can be alot.


Oh dear... I am poor... Hope I didn't get myself in over my head...



ema-leigh said:


> Alone rats are never really comftable or happy. They are very social by nature, so I think you should get him a cagemate. Dont forget he was born into a group of rats.. his mom and a bunch of siblings. Then put in a box and now hes housed by himself. He will feel constantly on edge, its survival instinct. Getting him a friend will really help him settle and adjust to his new life with you. You will most likely find he will warm up to you alot quicker.


Alright. Once we get a new bigger cage I'll get him a friend. Two boys do ok together?



ema-leigh said:


> As for the wheel, theres alot of research to say they are not good for rats because of the shape of their spine. However I let my girls use a comfort wheel occasionally (which is a larger wheel, with no gaps or places for toes/tails to get damaged) Balls are not suitable for rats at all. Rats have really poor vision, so they rely on feel and smell to get around - the ball cuts this off. This is most likely while your rat just sat there.


Yea he doesn't use the wheel much (he likes to sprawl out and sleep half on it, lol!)
It's a bit too small for him because the cage isn't very tall. I kinda knew the wheel wasn't gonna be ideal, but my b/f bought it one day on his way home from work...



ema-leigh said:


> If you are worried about him biting you, wear oven gloves or thick garden gloves. Hold him for over 20 mins at a time as they cant hold fear for that long and accept their situation. Carry him around with you, in your pocket, on your shoulder or something so he bonds with you. If he bites you, your clothing, or the gloves then make a high pitched squeak as this tells him he hurt you and he will stop it after a few squeaks.


You know, my b/f told me about a scientific study he read about where two rats were next to each other in separate cages.Rat A had to press a button to get food, but it would also send an electric shock to rat B... So rat A starved itself instead of hurting the other ratty <3 If only humans could be so kind, eh?


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

Margar said:


> ema-leigh said:
> 
> 
> > I would also advise setting aside an emergency vet fund, just incase, as you dont know anything about his health history and vet bills can be alot.
> ...


If you set aside a little each week that may be the best plan. Vet bills can be expensive and I think they can be a lot more costly over there than here (I'm in the UK). One of my rats, Spike, passed away a couple of weeks ago and he cost me over £500 in vet bills. e.g. 3 surgeries for tumour removals, 2 respiratory infections, 5 abscesses, teeth trims every 2 weeks as they were misaligned. Then were was Max, Spike's brother, who passed away at 2 years old only 3 weeks after a tumour attached to bone was discovered - he had never needed the vets. You never can tell what's around the corner with rats. 



Margar said:


> Alright. Once we get a new bigger cage I'll get him a friend. Two boys do ok together?


Two boys would be fine together. Just make sure you quarantine (if possible) and do introductions slowly - they should hopefully get along fine. Here is the quarantine stick and here is the introductions one - you might find them useful to read over.


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## Capistrono (Apr 12, 2010)

My first female I had bit me and drew blood the first day I brought her home. By the end of a few weeks she would jump onto my arms whenever I opened the cage doors.
I don't think a rat's history could do anything that with trust and patience couldn't be changed. Even if he was raised as a feeder I'm sure he'll make a wonderful pet.

I've spent over $150 in cages alone (I only have 3 rats too) not counting food, toys, and vet bills. They can be costly but are definitely worth it.


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## margar (Apr 10, 2010)

Well my boyfirend and I do have a savings account which we put money ontp each payday. we're not rich, but we do have a little saved and a means to save more, so it'll be ok.

Found a breeder in my city! a new liter is ixpected in about 2 weeks, so I'm about 7 weeks away from a new buddy for Pete :3


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## ZoeHale (Jan 9, 2010)

Congratulations on the new rat! Here's a few little tidbits of ratty wisdom I've got. 

First, cheap or homemade toys are always appreciated more than the expensive ones. My friend's pet store sells plastic balls with bells in them (jingly cat balls) for 79 cents. My girls LOVE them. Especially at 4am :

Second, out-of-cage time is super important. (At least to me, it is.) I carry my girls around with me allllll the time. I love being around them, and they love being with me.

Third, vet bills. Yes, they can be astonishingly high. Yes, it can seem outrageous. But! See if you qualify for Care Credit (I think that's what it's called.) If not, try to work out a payment plan with your vet. Tug at the heartstrings. I promise it's worth it.

Fourth, have fun! Rats are amazing creatures, mine amaze me every day. Challenge them. Hide treats for them in different places. Time how long it takes for them to find it purely by sniffing.

I hope this helps.


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## margar (Apr 10, 2010)

ZoeHale said:


> Third, vet bills. Yes, they can be astonishingly high. Yes, it can seem outrageous. But! See if you qualify for Care Credit (I think that's what it's called.) If not, try to work out a payment plan with your vet. Tug at the heartstrings. I promise it's worth it.


What's Care Credit? I'm in the US and not sure where you are, so I'm sure "outrageously high" could mean different things, depending...



ZoeHale said:


> Fourth, have fun! Rats are amazing creatures, mine amaze me every day. Challenge them. Hide treats for them in different places. Time how long it takes for them to find it purely by sniffing.


I'm looking forward to doing this


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## ZoeHale (Jan 9, 2010)

I'm in the US too. I think Care Credit is what it's called. It's like this thing where you can only use it at the vet's or at a doctor.. I don't really understand it. My vet told me about it. And outrageously high is um.. Over $100 for me, I'm super-duper-poor!


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

Margar said:


> What's Care Credit?


This is that Care Credit thing. I heard about it elsewhere a while ago from someone in the USA - I'm in the UK.


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## margar (Apr 10, 2010)

Thanks so much, I'll look into that.
I appreciate all the help, guys.


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