# Cost for tumor removal?



## Munchies

Hello! One of my rats has developed a lump near her hind leg on the side (closer to her back than belly). It's half round-ish and about the diameter of a penny. I'm in the GTA, Ontario, and called a downtown vet clinic (one that's been mentioned here many times). Anyway, they are booked solid and are in some sort of transition and, apparently, the main/head doctor had "disappeared", was what I was told. So, I was referred to a different clinic in Scarborough. They looked her over and extracted a bit of the lump with a needle then looked at it through the microscope (not a biopsy). I was told that it was "cellular", so not a cyst or abscess or Lipoma. I got a quote for removal of the lump and it's $578.56 including medications (for pain and/or antibiotics? that costs $50.00) and taxes. I already paid $130 for the consultation and needle extraction/exam. I called another clinic and their consultation fee is $58 instead of $84 (which is what this clinic charged). The other clinic said that they cannot give me an estimate of the cost of tumor removal without first consulting with the vet and paying that fee, though. So, I'm wondering if $578.56 is considered reasonable, or should I look elsewhere? Hope someone can help? Thank you in advance.


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## lilspaz68

Greenwood Park Animal Hospital is the clinic you first called (my own vet) but sadly yes the owner/experienced vet kinda left, so the vet there is a locum. They didn't even offer her for surgery?

Who is the clinic in Scarborough, Amherst? it sounds like them, they are okay but can be a little pricey.

and the last vet? Who was that?

Avoid Animal Hospital of High Park


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## Munchies

Hi Lilspaz! Greenwood was booked solid so they referred me to Amherst should I want an earlier appointment. The other vet I called is Malvern Veterinary Hospital. Ya, I'm avoiding High Park after reading about them on rat forums.  

Who do you go to now that the main vet at Greenwood's gone?


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## dashielle89

I don't live anywhere near you so I can't help as far as vets and such go. But where I live I pay around $400 on average for a tumor removal, though it ranges from $350-$550 depending on the size/number of tumors. So that price isn't totally crazy, just on the high side.


Also my vet lets me schedule tumor removals without seeing the rat first, though sometimes I do bring them in for an exam anyway if I'm not sure what I'm going to do. If I don't bring them in and they haven't seen that particular rat in the last year, they just add on a $30 pre-exam fee for checking them out before.


I have had rats get a tumor in the same spot you're talking about (at least I think I know where you're talking about). I never get tumors sent in to see what they are since it wouldn't matter to me and it's expensive, so I can't say what kind it is or if it's definitely the same as yours, but the ones my rats have gotten on their leg on their side/back never grow very large. Not sure if they're mammary tumors in a weird spot since they do grow when hormones fluctuate, just not as much. I didn't remove them and they never caused an issue other than looking uneven. Could be different for you, I just add that because if it is the same for you, you shouldn't have to rush it and have time to find someone else if you want to.


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## Munchies

dashielle89 said:


> I don't live anywhere near you so I can't help as far as vets and such go. But where I live I pay around $400 on average for a tumor removal, though it ranges from $350-$550 depending on the size/number of tumors. So that price isn't totally crazy, just on the high side.
> 
> 
> Also my vet lets me schedule tumor removals without seeing the rat first, though sometimes I do bring them in for an exam anyway if I'm not sure what I'm going to do. If I don't bring them in and they haven't seen that particular rat in the last year, they just add on a $30 pre-exam fee for checking them out before.
> 
> 
> I have had rats get a tumor in the same spot you're talking about (at least I think I know where you're talking about). I never get tumors sent in to see what they are since it wouldn't matter to me and it's expensive, so I can't say what kind it is or if it's definitely the same as yours, but the ones my rats have gotten on their leg on their side/back never grow very large. Not sure if they're mammary tumors in a weird spot since they do grow when hormones fluctuate, just not as much. I didn't remove them and they never caused an issue other than looking uneven. Could be different for you, I just add that because if it is the same for you, you shouldn't have to rush it and have time to find someone else if you want to.


Hi dashielle89! Thank you so much for your reply! I'll take a picture of my rat's lump and post it here. Right now, I'm thinking of waiting and seeing if it grows any bigger. If it does, then I'm going to take her to another vet. I'm giving her melatonin and berberine at the moment.


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## LilysPets

I live in Ontario myself and my partner is from Toronto, so I know the city a little bit.

Can't give you particular names of the vet (As I only really have experience with vets in Guelph), but I can assure you, as you already know, that Toronto is a fairly pricey city for anything. If there is a big price difference in examination fees, try to figure out why that is. Is one of them more experienced? Do they specialize? Maybe it has to do with location? 

Some places are generally cheaper, while others may be more experienced. I used to work on a pricier-end at an animal hospital, and the price included the quality of the surgery. The vet I worked for studied, and practiced, animal medicine and surgery in Europe, and there was a technician that personally monitored each pet after each surgery. 

I've paid up to $100 for a vet fee, not for rats though. Always expect to pay more in Toronto than any other area. From my personal experience, I found cheaper vets tended to give me worse vet encounters. For a tumour removal surgery at only in the $500 range, I'd say that's fairly amazing. That's just me though. I also own pet ferrets and surgeries easily go up to $1,000 for these little guys. I'd pay $500 any day for a tumour removal!

Of course, money isn't everything. Some places do indeed charge more than others. My only suggestion is to go with the vet that you are most comfortable with. I'd rather pay more for a vet that I trust and feel comfortable with, than save a few bucks (Of course, there's nothing wrong with saving money)


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## Munchies

LilysPets said:


> I live in Ontario myself and my partner is from Toronto, so I know the city a little bit.
> 
> Can't give you particular names of the vet (As I only really have experience with vets in Guelph), but I can assure you, as you already know, that Toronto is a fairly pricey city for anything. If there is a big price difference in examination fees, try to figure out why that is. Is one of them more experienced? Do they specialize? Maybe it has to do with location?
> 
> Some places are generally cheaper, while others may be more experienced. I used to work on a pricier-end at an animal hospital, and the price included the quality of the surgery. The vet I worked for studied, and practiced, animal medicine and surgery in Europe, and there was a technician that personally monitored each pet after each surgery.
> 
> I've paid up to $100 for a vet fee, not for rats though. Always expect to pay more in Toronto than any other area. From my personal experience, I found cheaper vets tended to give me worse vet encounters. For a tumour removal surgery at only in the $500 range, I'd say that's fairly amazing. That's just me though. I also own pet ferrets and surgeries easily go up to $1,000 for these little guys. I'd pay $500 any day for a tumour removal!
> 
> Of course, money isn't everything. Some places do indeed charge more than others. My only suggestion is to go with the vet that you are most comfortable with. I'd rather pay more for a vet that I trust and feel comfortable with, than save a few bucks (Of course, there's nothing wrong with saving money)


Hi LilysPets! Thanks for your reply. The vet that I went to only saw the rat for a brief moment then handed her to the technician to take a sample of the tumor. I spent more time with their technician so I'm not sure how good the vet is. They did not think it would be a good idea to spay the rat at the same time, though. I read that it's best to spay at the same time to keep their hormones in check so to prevent the likelihood of more lumps appearing, but what do I know. My previous dog had several lumps removed plus teeth cleaned and the bill came up to be just a little more than that. My dog's vet was located downtown so I'm sure the fees are more there than they are at this rat's vet. I know money shouldn't be the main concern, but if you've got certain vets who charges more than most in town, you've got to wonder what their main concern is also, right? With regards to other concerns, the technician warned me that after care can be difficult cause rats tend to chew on the stitches. Then there's the chance that another lump will develop. Surgery itself is also risky.

Anyway, here are photos of my rat and her lump.


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## Munchies

And here are a couple of photos of both my rats, just because.


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## LilysPets

Oh my gosh, those faces are such cuties! 

The fact that your vet didn't really spend time with your rat is a concern. Also remember that dogs are much more common pets than rats... Some vets can't perform on smaller animals, hence charge a bit more too.  Also hinting to your post earlier, it's normal for vets not to schedule a surgery, such as tumour removals, without them seeing them first. Generally, if your previous vet sends over the x-rays and test results, that should be enough for you to schedule with another vet off the bat. Some prefer to check up with your little guy and see in person first before the procedure, and I respect and totally understand why they would do it. 

Small animals tend to cost more as they aren't as common as dogs or cats unfortunately. Did you get a quote from another vet that you prefer? 

I was once screwed over by vet costs. I was charged $70 for 30mL of prednisolone... I have never paid more than $25 in my life. I was charged a $100 examination fee, and $30 for a glucose check (Usually around $10 for this...) I contacted the owner on the reasons why they are charging so much, and lack the experience (The exotic vet had like 5 years experience), while other clinics charged MORE THAN HALF of what they charged. They never got back to me. Certainly, some clinics do charge an arm and leg when you can get the same quality, possibly even better, than you would from them. Definitely worth thinking about.


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## Grotesque

My Milwaukee vet charges $150 including exam and post op followup exam if needed. Meds are slightly extra.


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## dashielle89

Yeah, that's exactly where I was thinking the lump was. The couple I've had on my rats did grow, but like I said, it never got to be anything serious. The normal mammary tumors on their underside always grew much faster or larger than the less common types.


Spaying is better if that's what you want to do, and while I have a feeling the tumors are hormone influenced I don't know for sure because of the location, so it isn't a necessity. I didn't get my rats spayed when they got tumors off just because I didn't want to put them through a more invasive surgery like that at the older ages they were at when they started getting tumors. 


Keep looking for a good vet, and I agree that quality is more important than price, but don't let them overcharge you just because they can either. Good luck!


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## Munchies

LilysPets said:


> Oh my gosh, those faces are such cuties!


Thanks. 





> it's normal for vets not to schedule a surgery, such as tumour removals, without them seeing them first. Generally, if your previous vet sends over the x-rays and test results, that should be enough for you to schedule with another vet off the bat. Some prefer to check up with your little guy and see in person first before the procedure, and I respect and totally understand why they would do it.


Ya. The other vet said that even given the info from the other vet won't do. I was told that by law, the vet has to examine the pet first before doing surgery.






> Small animals tend to cost more as they aren't as common as dogs or cats unfortunately. Did you get a quote from another vet that you prefer?


No yet. I'll probably do that if the lump gets any bigger and when I'm certain that I want to go through with surgery.




Thanks for your feedback, Grotesque!  






dashielle89 said:


> Yeah, that's exactly where I was thinking the lump was. The couple I've had on my rats did grow, but like I said, it never got to be anything serious. The normal mammary tumors on their underside always grew much faster or larger than the less common types.
> 
> 
> Spaying is better if that's what you want to do, and while I have a feeling the tumors are hormone influenced I don't know for sure because of the location, so it isn't a necessity. I didn't get my rats spayed when they got tumors off just because I didn't want to put them through a more invasive surgery like that at the older ages they were at when they started getting tumors.
> 
> 
> Keep looking for a good vet, and I agree that quality is more important than price, but don't let them overcharge you just because they can either. Good luck!


Thanks dashielle!  I will keep an eye out on the lump then. I feel more relieved hearing that it's on the same spot as your rats whose lump didn't grow fast and wasn't anything serious, thank you!


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## lilspaz68

Munchies said:


> Hi Lilspaz! Greenwood was booked solid so they referred me to Amherst should I want an earlier appointment. The other vet I called is Malvern Veterinary Hospital. Ya, I'm avoiding High Park after reading about them on rat forums.  Who do you go to now that the main vet at Greenwood's gone?


I have no clue what Malvern is like. Amherst is okay and your rat should be okay there.At this point I still go to Greenwood because I have 2 girls who get their teeth trimmed there every month. But for surgeries I have an option of a vet in Waterloo who is reasonable and competent (a rescue I know uses them) and a mobile vet who is hard to.arrange around. Emergencies like enucleation, and massive injuries etc I haven't figured out yet. Losing Munn the way we did has bwen awful for Toronto ratowners


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## LilysPets

If you're willing to go to Waterloo, Campus Estates in Guelph may be worth checking out. They're one of the best in the field when it comes to exotic and avian medicine. To be honest, I would say they may even be the best in all of Ontario, possibly Canada. Compassionate people and they're also 24-7 and available for emergencies. I took my small pets there during emergencies and they are superb and are definitely far more experienced and knowledgeable than most vets I have encountered. I know people from all over Ontario travel to come to this hospital.


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## lilspaz68

I have to.disagree about campus, I have found them overpriced and hit and miss on their treatment of rats.


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## LilysPets

lilspaz68 said:


> I have to.disagree about campus, I have found them overpriced and hit and miss on their treatment of rats.


Really? That's surprising. I've never had an issue with them at all. I mostly took my ferrets there for emergencies or second opinions, and I've never had a problem. Considering the credentials and experience my vet had, I'd say $85 for an examination fee is reasonable. That's just my personal opinion though.


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## Munchies

lilspaz68 said:


> Losing Munn the way we did has bwen awful for Toronto ratowners


I know! I've never been to him but knowing that we had a good vet in the city was so reassuring. I'll give Greenwood a call should there be any change to the tumor and if when it needs to be removed.






LilysPets said:


> If you're willing to go to Waterloo, Campus Estates in Guelph may be worth checking out. They're one of the best in the field when it comes to exotic and avian medicine. To be honest, I would say they may even be the best in all of Ontario, possibly Canada. Compassionate people and they're also 24-7 and available for emergencies. I took my small pets there during emergencies and they are superb and are definitely far more experienced and knowledgeable than most vets I have encountered. I know people from all over Ontario travel to come to this hospital.


That sounds great, but unfortunately, it's way too far for us.  Thanks for the recommendation, though!


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## Love My Rats

Summer my brown dumbo rat has a mammary tumor I just discovered it a few weeks ago so I took her to the vet Tuesday , to have this tumor removed will cost me $350.00 that's for the removal plus antibiotics and pain meds I have decided she is worthe it so she goes in for surgery October 6th


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## Munchies

Love My Rats said:


> Summer my brown dumbo rat has a mammary tumor I just discovered it a few weeks ago so I took her to the vet Tuesday , to have this tumor removed will cost me $350.00 that's for the removal plus antibiotics and pain meds I have decided she is worthe it so she goes in for surgery October 6th


Thanks for your input, Love My Rats! Good luck with the surgery! If you wouldn't mind posting here and letting me know about how the procedure went and what to do for post-surgery care, I would really appreciate it?!


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## Gribouilli

Love My Rats said:


> Summer my brown dumbo rat has a mammary tumor I just discovered it a few weeks ago so I took her to the vet Tuesday , to have this tumor removed will cost me $350.00 that's for the removal plus antibiotics and pain meds I have decided she is worthe it so she goes in for surgery October 6th


Best wishes. How big is her tumor and did it get bigger since you discovered it a few weeks ago? Thanks. I always want to learn about how those mammary tumors progress- it varies, but it is always good knowledge


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## Munchies

A little update on my rat - the lump seemed to have grown a bit so I took her to see another vet today. Cost to remove the tumor was quoted at $341.15 (pain medication and antibiotics plus taxes included). That's $237.41 less than the quote from the other vet! Examination cost was also $26.00 less. Even before I got the quote, I had a MUCH better feeling from this vet than the previous one I went to! For starters, the vet spent much more time with me (rather than leaving me mostly with the technician like the other vet). He also handled my rat much better during examination and did a more thorough exam (checked her eyes and listened to her heart and lungs with a stethoscope, etc). The other vet just looked briefly at the lump and wasn't even able to hold her still long enough to get a good feel of the lump (so then they had to take her to the back room to "get a better look". I feared they would get rough with her back there). Today's vet also seemed much more knowledgeable. He said, given the location of the lump, it's not likely to be a mammary or uterine tumor, that it's most likely soft tissue sarcoma. The other vet didn't say much. When asked if it was mammary, she said it could be. When asked if it was an abscess, she said it could be. ??? She also required that I had some of the lump extracted using a needle to see what's in there before they can operate because the "procedures are different". Has anyone else had that same experience? After the extraction, she didn't mention anything about how she'll approach the surgery given the new found data. In fact, she didn't return to see me at all. I was left with the vet tech who told me that the tissue looked "cellular", that it's a "mass", but they don't know what type it is. They did rule out cyst, abscess, and Lipoma, though. They also use either external stitching or staples, not internal stitches that dissolve on its own which has a lower likelihood of the rat ripping the stitches out. Today's vet went into detail about the procedure for removing the lump and what to expect, etc. (they use internal, dissolvable stitches), and was able to answer a lot of my questions in detail. Oh, and they clean the examination room after each patient, unlike the previous vet's office where there was cat hair all over the exam table. Overall, I got the feeling that today's vet was more knowledgeable and experienced, not to mention more caring and concerned since he was definitely more engaging. I feel MUCH more comfortable with him and I think my rat does too since she didn't crap all over until she produced almost diarrhea consistency stool (although, to be fair, she wasn't taken to the back room at today's vet and didn't have a needle jammed into her). I also have more confidence in today's vet - so much so that I'm even considering paying an extra $170.00 for a biopsy so that he could have more information at hand should my rat get another lump or have some other symptoms. Of course, this is all just from first impression. I won't know how well he performs until after the surgery.


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## LilysPets

I'm glad to hear you found someone you are more comfortable with, including cheaper costs.


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## dashielle89

I have never had a vet do an aspiration of a lump unless it was abnormal (looked like cancer or they weren't sure what it is). Most of the time with the benign tumors they feel it and they're fine with doing the surgery. So it sounds like the second vet you went to is a lot better. If you're very confident with them and the prices are good, I'd go the surgery for sure. Personally I don't feel like biopsies are worth the money. Generally you'll know if something is cancerous without one, and if it isn't cancerous and you're not a breeder, it seems like knowing what the tumor is won't do you much good. You'll probably have to have it removed regardless. If you'll feel better knowing and the price is good (definitely a lot lower than what I'd pay, it's usually $300-$400 for that) then I'd do it.


Also about the stitches, yes the internal dissolvable are better, but I don't have issues with regular sutures usually. For spays they usually do the dissolvable ones with glue, but 7/10 times on my tumor removals they say the skin gets stretched out and it's too thin and fragile to hold together well without stitches. I keep my rats busy enough so they won't pick them out in the first 24 hours when they're still loopy on pain meds. After that they'll usually pick them out slowly one at a time but the incision is healed enough that it doesn't matter.


Good luck with the surgery!


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## Munchies

dashielle89 said:


> I have never had a vet do an aspiration of a lump unless it was abnormal (looked like cancer or they weren't sure what it is). Most of the time with the benign tumors they feel it and they're fine with doing the surgery.


That's what I thought too so I found it a bit weird that it's required in order to determine what procedure to use in removal. But hey, I'm not a vet so what do I know. *shrug* 






> So it sounds like the second vet you went to is a lot better. If you're very confident with them and the prices are good, I'd go the surgery for sure.


Ya, I'm doing it for sure! Will be booking to set up the date on Monday.






> Personally I don't feel like biopsies are worth the money. Generally you'll know if something is cancerous without one, and if it isn't cancerous and you're not a breeder, it seems like knowing what the tumor is won't do you much good. You'll probably have to have it removed regardless. If you'll feel better knowing and the price is good (definitely a lot lower than what I'd pay, it's usually $300-$400 for that) then I'd do it.


The vet explained that the biopsy will let us know what the lump is (type of tumor, etc.), whether or not it's malignant, and if the surgery took out enough of the abnormal cells out. If it's benign and there was enough clearance, then we should not expect another growth. Should a new growth pop up again, it's most likely due to something else (in which case, we would have to remove it and do a biopsy again). If it's malignant and there was enough clearance, the chances of it coming back is low, but if another lump pops up, it is more likely to be due to the same cause, in which case, we'll have to decide what to do for the next step given that we know it's malignant. If there wasn't enough clearance, then the likelihood of another lump growing back is high, but at least we'll know what it is and whether or not it's malignant do we can decide what other treatment options there are other than surgical removal for that specific type of growth. As the vet explained, we can opt for removing new lumps again and again but that surgeries are risky, especially for such a small animal since losing even a drop of blood during is a lot for a rat. Then there's anesthesia risk and after care, etc. Moreover, there is only so much skin on a rat to sew him/her back up. 

After much contemplation, I've decided that I will go for the biopsy. Knowing exactly what it is, perhaps there are other means (e.g., drugs) to prevent it from coming back? It'll also ease my own nerves to know what it is and allow me be more emotionally prepared for what might come should it be "really bad news". 






> Good luck with the surgery!


Thank you! 



Some not so great news - both my rats have some respiratory flare ups today so they're both on antibiotics now.  Anyway, I will keep you guys up to date and let you know how things go with this vet. If all goes well, maybe those who live near here will have another option when trying to find a good vet for their rats now that the downtown doc is gone.


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## Munchies

Oh and thank you, LilysPets!


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## Munchies

Photos taken today. Look how fast and how large her tumor has grown!  Still 6 more days before her scheduled surgery. *sigh*


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## Munchies

Update - So my rat had her tumor removed yesterday. She's alive but doesn't look very happy. She's on ChlorPalm (15 days) and Metacam (oral for 5 days, had injection for pain post surgery). Has an appetite and is drinking but moves around very carefully. I'm surprised by the size of the incision (see photos). I didn't expect it to be so big given the size of the tumor (see day of surgery photos). The vet said, upon closer look when he opened her up, it could be a mammary tumor given where it was growing near. He couldn't dig any further cause that would require an even bigger incision. We're awaiting the histology results. 

My other rat's health seems to be going downhill (gasping for air again - this time, she doesn't even need to move around much). The vet said to just keep giving her the antibiotics (she's already been on it for a week). He said if there's still no change or if her condition gets worse, he could switch her to Baytril, but that Doxy and ChlorPalm will have to be stopped. He said that you can't mix bactericide with a bacteriostatic antibiotics cause one acts as agonist towards the other. I looked into that a bit and it seems that things may not be all that clear cut. Read here, for instance, if anyone's interested: http://aac.asm.org/content/58/8/4573.full And though I could not find any studies specific to the combination of doxy and Baytril for myco in rats, specifically, the combination seems to be used by at least some vets. For example, http://www.banfield.com/veterinary-...al-cases/case-study-mycoplasmosis-in-six-rats and https://books.google.ca/books?id=uh...q=doxycycline enrofloxacin mycoplasma&f=false And of course, many of the rat help sites also recommend the combo. SO... I'm not sure if the vet I went to is right, or if he's just not very familiar with rats' health specifically that he doesn't recommend the combo. Overall, the vet is very nice and seems to spend a lot of time with his patients (which is not so great when you're waiting your turn, but nice to be informed when it's your turn). The staff is really nice too, and the prices seem reasonable. They are definitely very caring people. I am, however, not certain if he's very familiar with rats per se (hands on experience wise, not necessarily textbook wise) considering how his approach sometimes conflict with that of some other vets that I've read about (e.g., with the doxy Baytril combo). He is very helpful, though. I asked if maybe a bronchodilator might help my gasping rat and he told me that it usually doesn't do much, but that he could give me a prescription if I wanted to try. Oh, and I asked about euthanasia - they use anesthesia before administering the drug that stops their heart so that's good to know if when my rats' time comes. 

Anyway, so that's my take on this vet. If anyone in the Toronto area is looking for a vet for their rats, Malvern Animal Hospital might be another option.


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## Dan203

That's a pretty big tumor. We had removed from Buddy's side that was about the size of a pea and the incision was almost as big. Zeeky has one now too, a little bigger, but not nearly as big as yours. I'm holding off on it because it near the surface of the skin and not really impeding him in any way and he's over 2 years old so putting him under for surgery is dangerous.

When we did Buddy's we also did a neuter at the same time. It cost us about $900 all in, including the pathology on the tumor to make sure it wasn't cancer. (it wasn't)


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## Munchies

So both my rats are dead.  Burtney, the one who had a tumor removed developed all the signs of pituitary tumor last night. It was so sudden! I gave her prednisone but it didn't help. Today, she was still alive and breathing but was rather stiff and couldn't move much. I gave her another dose of prednisone and went to the vet to have her euthanized. Her sister, Nibbles, has not been responding to treatment and has been have more gasping attacks and can't eat anything but tiny licks of liquefied foods at a time with breaks to prop herself up against the wall to breathe. She hasn't moved much in over a week except during times when she's having a really bad gasping attack and was in a panic, trying to find somewhere where she could breathe.  She lost about 10% of her body weight in about 2 weeks. The vet said it's probably just a matter of time, so I decided to have them both go. Burtney's histology results came back (just today "due to delays as a result of the Thanksgiving holiday"). The tumor was malignant and was possibly mammary in origin. 

I brought their bodies home and am going to do the "flower pot" burial thing that was mentioned on this site. I'm going to miss them so very much...:'(


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## Fraido

So sorry to hear. 

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


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## Gribouilli

I'm sorry for your losses. You did the right thing by euthanizing them, they were going to suffer otherwise with no hope of getting better. Rest in peace sweet Burtney and Nibbles.


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## Munchies

Thanks Fraido and Gribouilli.  I miss them, but at the same time, I feel a bit better knowing that they're no longer suffering. 

I was complaining to the vet about how unfair it was that they were so intelligent and yet their lifespans were so short and blah blah blah (I was rather emotional at the time). The vet actually suggested that I adopt some more from shelters where older rats are often abandoned by people who no longer want them. (...??) Well, I guess it would be good to give a few rats a home, but it would also mean having to watch them get sick and die after a short period of time and, selfishly, I don't really want to go through that again. Also, I'm not sure I'm any good at taking care of rats. I thought I was giving my girls a good diet, clean home, plenty of mental stimulation and needed healthcare, but they both got really sick at but 22 months of age. I must have been doing something wrong. Looking back, I should have had them spayed while they were young. I also should have picked up more subtle signs of respiratory distress like sudden preference for higher ground and refusal to come down, or more movement in the chest area while breathing even though she made no sounds or sneezed or had any sort of discharges, lethargy, or loss of appetite. Had I known that those were warning signs and given Nibbles treatment right away, maybe she would have recovered instead of deteriorated to the point of gasping for air and no longer responding to antibiotics. 

Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks for lending an ear if you've read this far.


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