# My rats are scared to be picked up!



## ATez (May 5, 2009)

I got two little rats a few days ago. One is the cutest little fuzz ball ever!! Named Crank by my boyfriend.
The other is a dumbo who looks like he's up to no good! I named him Pickle. 

Right now they live in a rather small cage since I was at first supposed to get mices off of someone.
It's a standar size i guess. Not all that big but at least for now they have two levels to run on.
I made them a little house with the bottom of a cereal box so they have a place to hide and sleep.
They have two bowls, one with the nut mix they usually sell at pet stores and in the other some fresh food.
And of course the water bottle! Eventually when I have more money they'll get a much much bigger cage! 

I'm trying to give them a home in which they're comfortable but they are scared of me and my boyfriend! 
If I crunch up a tiny bit of crackers in my hand they'll come and sniff it around and steal some and I even got
one to stand on my hand no his own!  I was really happy about that but when the time comes to
clean out the cage they freak out and poop everywhere! They won't let me pick them up and if i DO manage
to get Crank he'll be quiet into a ball and looking kinda scared but Pickle tries to run under my armpits and claws
at me thinking I might let him fall. I read a lot to give them treats to calm them down but it doesn't seem to be working.
They don't want it.

Now they're also hard to get because they hide in the cereal box. I can't lift it up or tild it because of the secound floor.
So I was wondering which was a better option. Remove the hiding place for a while untill they get used to us and respond
to us calling them out of the cage or should i sacrifice they're walking space and remove the top floor so i'm able to take
them out more easily by lifting their little home.

I'm not sure what to do so i've been placing the cage on the couch then removing the whole top of the cage to get them
outta there. But I know this scares them a lot! But what would scare them most? That or me holding them up? Note
that the cage's isn't easily pulled appart. I have to push in the walls because they're held by a plastic pin. But it's noizy and
scares them while they're in there. When I was a little girl my parents got a cage with 4 pins that you just has to remove
with ease and without a noize.

But I don't have the money now and might not have it untill a few monts.
I know they have to get used to me but I can't let them live in their own poop untill they do!
I have to clean their cage! What do I do?! 

No cereal box home so I can take them out?
Less floor to walk on?
Or just keep doing what I do?

Help!


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## xxzz6760 (May 1, 2009)

Aww, don't take away their hidey hole! It might make them even more fearful. Honestly, it takes several days before the rats will become less skittish. But taking out the second floor might be an okay idea, especially since it's limiting your ability to interact with them, which is pretty important. Also, since they're new, they'll probably stay near their house, so they might not even use the second floor for a few days.

Unfortunately, I had to drag my ratty out of his hidey hole when I cleaned his cage, but I set up another place for him and put his box-house there so he could hide. It helped to offer him my hand, and when he came to sniff it, I'd put my hand on his rump and back and kind of back him into my hand, then slide my other hand under him to lift him. This may not be the best strategy, but it definitely helped Barnabee get used to being picked up.

Anyway, I hope my newbie advice helps you, and good luck!


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## ATez (May 5, 2009)

Alright! Within a few days if luring them with food doesn't work i guess i'll have to freak them out one last time! 
Thanks for replying to quickly! 

BTW I've noticed a second problem! They fight with each other a lot. And they chirp and squeak while 
doing so.  I know they're young and playfighting but sometimes they squeak so much I'm scared it might
get worse when they get older! Pickle steals treats from Crank (was my reason to break their cookie treats into pieces)
and i haven't seen them sleep together really often.

I'm not sure if it's normal. The last thing I remember from having rats that young when I was a little kid was
one of them jumping in my face and grabing my glasses. It freaked my mom out!  lol

But I was used to my old rats back then. If they thought I would seperate them for 30 minutes.
They got a taste of what it was like to be alone and didn't like it. Then they'd be in love all over again! 
And when one would steal food i'd say NO! and give it back to the other rat.

I loved these so much.  I would run from the kitchen and down the hall for a poop and come back for more food!
They would bring each others food and when they got bloated they'd go sleep in their cage! 
They were out 50% of the day!

Gonna try to be just as good to these new little guys! Whee


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## xxzz6760 (May 1, 2009)

I don't have any experience with baby rats, but I've read a lot about their behaviours, and you can tell if they are actually fighting by where they tend to bite each other - if it's on the rump, it's actual fighting (especially if it brings blood!), but if it's around the neck, they are play-fighting. It seems sort of backwards to me, though, since the neck is much more vulnerable, so you might want to research that as well. Also, they are fighting for dominance if one or both of them are hissing or puffed up. Also, just like in respect to dog fights, getting in between the two isn't safe unless your hand is protected by a glove or you use a piece of cardboard or something since the rats are in attack mode and have essentially tunnel vision, so they will bite whatever comes into their line of sight, including you! So good luck taming your wild beasties! They sound like a handful!


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## marshmallowfriend (Apr 16, 2009)

It takes longer than a few days to gain the trust of a skittish rat 
The play fighting and squeaking is normal. That's just what rats do. Make sure to keep handling them often and they should come around.


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## CaptainFlow (May 16, 2007)

Bring food whenever you play with them- small, delicious, easy to eat things, like rice crispies or small amounts of yogurt. (VERY small). 

It will take a long time till they're the trusting little rats you'd like, in some cases. I remember I had my girls for about a month and once when I tried to pick up Sevilla, she freaked out so bad that she ran into a toilet paper tube and got stuck! It took about a year, maybe longer, until I was able to really pick them up and jostle them around without some kind of reaction. Even now that they're almost 2, one girl will squeak and try to run away from me if I don't get a firm enough grip the first time around. And I know she's fine with me, licks my hand and crawls all over me when I'm on the bed with them. She just doesn't like being picked up, and that's fine. 

Also, rats steal from each other. That's just what they do. I'll be handing treats out, and inevitably one will get the first one. Well, the other two who lag behind will NEVER come straight to me for theirs, even though I'm patiently waiting with two other treats. No, their first reaction is ALWAYS to try to steal the one from the first rat. It's ridiculous.


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

You are feeding a seed based mix? A good quality lab block is a better option with it being a complete diet. With the seed based mixes they can also pick out what they want, so it doesn't meet their dietary requirements. 

Give them time - you've only had them a few days. I'm sure they'll be at the bars begging to come out soon! You could try feeding soft foods such as babyfood or yoghurt while they are out on you, so they associate coming out with yummy treats. You could feed this from your fingers, or if you weren't comfortable doing that you could use a spoon. The reason I suggested soft foods is so they can't just run off to hide to eat it, they have to stay to lap it up 

It sounds like they're play fighting. The general rule is "no blood, no foul". Just keep an eye on them but I'm sure they'll be just fine. Rats can be very dramatic sounding over nothing


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## ATez (May 5, 2009)

Whee! I've been giving them carrots for treats and whenever i give some to Pickle he'll look at me at the cage door
waiting for more! He's so adorable!!!  Even brave enough to climb on my with his front paws! 

As for lab block i've looked for them but couldn't find them where i baught the ratties...
There's 3 more pet stores i know of tho! I'll give them a try when i have enough time to get there! 
Should I still put the seed based mix in with the lab rat when i find them?


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## ATez (May 5, 2009)

Wheee! I'm so happy they're less and less scared!  I just got them both to come out of the cage on their on will! They're on a table right next to the couch and I sat at the corner handing them some carrot cubes and a couple of pumkin seeds! Aww! There goes pickle exploring again!  I know they're looking for food right now but eventually they'll get to learn outside is also safe! 

I even manage to pick up Crank without having him poop on me! I was petting him gently then gave him a tiny piece of pumkin seed that he happily ate!  They're such fast learners! Eeeh! And to think when I got them on Satherday the simple thought of being taken outta there made them poop themselves!

Thank you all the the tips!! 

Still a bit anxious about the fighting tho! Crank is attacking Pickle's bum and that's when I picked him up!
I think he was too confused at what just happened to be scared! lol

I guess me wiggling my fingers in there hours a day helps! Wheee! I wonder how much they'll have improved in a week from now! ;D
Let's hope my boyfriend doesn't get jealous! lol

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Here's an update! Crank is being mean I saw him bite the hand of his mate!  I seperated them but now I'm really worried Crank will hurt Pickle!
What can I do about this? Crank is being a good ratty with me but he's a jerk to the other rat! They don't sleep together and they only fight!
I even saw Crank pulling food out of Pickle's mouth. 

I really don't know what to do about this!! What do I do if the problem persist or gets worse??
Am I going to have to let one go or seperate them? But then they would get lonely! I'm sad! Pickle is scared of him.
I pushed Crank over and bit and said NO! I didn't smack him tho only pushed him aside a bit 
Maybe Crank is eating too much junk food and it's making him aggresive? I've seen studies made on
that on Discovery Planet. They gave lab rats good food and other rats junk food and the rats eating junk good ended up
being more aggresive! This is weird to me Crank is so much smaller!

Do you think if I manage to think of a game they can play together it'll improve?
OR could it be the size of the cage? Like i've said it's a rather small cage because i didn't have enough money for a bigger one
and I liked the fact that it had two floors. Could one be jealous? I really don't know!

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Okay, so it went from bitting to grooming and now sleeping together. I really don't get these guys!! ??? ??? 

====================================================

And now they were fighting again. Going for each others behind. 
It seems whenever Crank encounters the other rat he wants him out of his face.
And earlier Pickle was obviously forced into sleeping after being groomed.
When Crank fell asleep Pickle took off.


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

ATez said:


> Here's an update! Crank is being mean I saw him bite the hand of his mate!  I seperated them but now I'm really worried Crank will hurt Pickle!
> What can I do about this? Crank is being a good ratty with me but he's a jerk to the other rat! They don't sleep together and they only fight!
> I even saw Crank pulling food out of Pickle's mouth.


Was Pickle's hand bleeding? You haven't yet said if blood has been drawn when they're fighting (if they are fighting). It's normal behaviour for rats to steal food from each other. 




> And now they were fighting again. Going for each others behind.
> It seems whenever Crank encounters the other rat he wants him out of his face.
> And earlier Pickle was obviously forced into sleeping after being groomed.
> When Crank fell asleep Pickle took off.


Going for each others behind? Can you describe this? I'm thinking they may be playing. Rats can't _force_ another rat to sleep.


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## ATez (May 5, 2009)

No, they weren't bleeding... but it looks and sounds reallt bad.
So they were just playing?! And here i was being scared.
Sorry for being paranoid! I feel silly now! :-\


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## amadeusmom (May 8, 2009)

My best bonding with a rat, was tickling. Yes tickling. They do it to each other too. Try gently wiggling your fingers against their sides for now. Later on you can flip them on their bag.
You should "tickle tickle tickle" than let your hand rest in the cage. Maybe have a treat in it. Enough for both.
I'll bet they run away at first then turn tail and come back for more..after a while you can actually join into their play.
On the hiding place..I suggest you remove it for a while, but add lots of stripped, not shredded newspaper. They will build a little ball to hide in and they'll definately cuddle to keep warm. But they'll be forced to watch and smell you in and around the cage.
You'll become a part of their environment.
Then after about a week or two of tickling and bonding. Put the box back in.
Be sure and let them out into a safe area for excercise and exploration until you can get a bigger cage. You'll have a happier more secure rat...
I close all the doors in the back of the house, but he doesn't chew. Some rats do. Be careful of cords and wires.


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## ATez (May 5, 2009)

amadeusmom said:


> You'll become a part of their environment.
> Then after about a week or two of tickling and bonding. Put the box back in.
> Be sure and let them out into a safe area for excercise and exploration until you can get a bigger cage.


Hehe! I think I already have that first part covered actually! Now when I lift their little homes (as much as I can lift it) they don't get a panic attack anymore! Rather they'll come sniffing and licking at me! They're so nice now! 

I turned the cage so it would face the couch and my table is the same weight as the arm rest.
When I sit down and let them sniff at me they'll come out. Pickle now sometimes runs really quickly from one end of the couch to the other and jumps back into his cage... and 2 seconds later he's at it again!  If I go away they stop tho and stay in the cage. Crank doesn't come out as much! He's a very slow eater and sleeps a lot. I wonder if he's younger than I thought he might've been! His eyes aren't all big and widly open li Pickle's... most of the time he's squinting.

They're both albino too.


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## Kowcatchan (Feb 23, 2009)

Is it true when they nip at each others bum that means they're fighting? o.o Because I've seen mine do it all the time. Normally Shisha doing it to betty.. Then betty would run, Shisha would catch her and betty would roll onto her back and the wrestling would begin. No blood has been shed though, and I've had them for close to two months.


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

I wonder if Crank isn't too well. His eyes should be open wide and bright... not squinty. Does he have any porphyrin around them? If so, it will be reddish in colour and can indicate stress or illness. Also with you saying he sleeps a lot and eats slowly, it made be wonder if his health is 100%. Is he not eating much or just eating slowly?


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## ATez (May 5, 2009)

Stace87 said:


> I wonder if Crank isn't too well. His eyes should be open wide and bright... not squinty. Does he have any porphyrin around them? If so, it will be reddish in colour and can indicate stress or illness. Also with you saying he sleeps a lot and eats slowly, it made be wonder if his health is 100%. Is he not eating much or just eating slowly?


Well, when he dares to come out of his cage or when I have to pick him up to clean the cage his eyes get wide and open but I know that's because he's allert. If I give him food he'll happily run back off with it and slowly chew it down. Pickle on the other hand will goble it up! I'e even seen him eat even faster when Crank came down the second floor once. lol

I haven't noticed anything around his eyes. When I was a little girl one of our rats had porphyrin and my parents got a cream or drops for his eye. He was also a slow eater and a bit slower but their life span was 5 and 5 and a half years.

Do you think his vision might not be as good as Pickle's? If I wiggle my fingers Pickle will come running out of the cage sniffing me for food.
But with Crank I really need to make him smell my fingers and the food to drag him out. But then again he's always fighting with his friend so he HAS to be able to see.... right?

Are there any tests you can do on a rat to know if they're blind?


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

Rats don't have brilliant eyesight to start with - pink eyed rats have even poorer vision. Does Crank have pink eyes?


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## ATez (May 5, 2009)

Stace87 said:


> Rats don't have brilliant eyesight to start with - pink eyed rats have even poorer vision. Does Crank have pink eyes?


Yeah, they're both albino!


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## amadeusmom (May 8, 2009)

I wonder about crank too. If he is ill it can be very stressful to keep up with what's going on..you might consider his own space where he can get completely separated, then try contacting a vet, sometimes they'll suggest stuff over the phone and not charge you. But of course to get thorough treatment you'll have to take him in.
Some vets treat rats as "exotic" and charge an arm and a leg. 
I found one vet in a 200 miles area, thankfully near me! She charges about what it would cost to take in a dog or cat, so shop around..google it for your area.
My vet even alters rats for $50 where the others around here charge starting at $150, simply because they consider them exotic.
Good luck!! Keep us posted please.


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## ATez (May 5, 2009)

The closes vet I can get too here is a 45 minutes bus ride so I really want to be sure he's ill before I freak him out good.

But I don't think he's ill he doesn't look weak and he's grown a bit since last week.
Most of the time the first thing he does when he wakes up is look for food or water and if he find Crank on
the way he'll attack him. Also I started to notice Pickle is whiney.
He was eating while being groomed AND squeaking. I looked at him and thought
to myself "You're not being hurt you're just a scardy rat!"


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