# suggestion for the site...



## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

Okay so i've seen a lot of posts lately about what types of bedding are safe for our rats. i think we need to have a sticky on one of the forums, may be rat health about what types of bedding and brands are good and safe. kind just like the diet sticky. as we all know its easy for our rats to get a uri, im sure weve all dealt with a few, and for people who are first time rat owners, im sure its quite often due to the bedding or the type of cage they are living in.

i know there are a lot of people on here with a lot more rat experience than i...so if anybody has some free time can we try to make a list and get an admin to sticky it? :]

if this has already been done or i am being rude in some way please delete this post, thank you.


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## kenRakuu (Mar 29, 2008)

No, I totally agree. Some one not to long ago who is a new rat owner was asking about pine they had and if they could use it, alot of us already know this a really bad for rats respiratory systems but it's not widely know to every one.

Great idea<3


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

It could be useful, in the homes section. If someone would write up a detailed enough thread and put in the sticky submissions sticky in the forum help and suggestions forum, the mods will review it and sticky it.


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

okay well if nobody does it by tomorrow night i will try to collect as much info about bedding as i can from the forum and make a as detailed list of info on it as i can. and then see how it goes ;P


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Sounds good.


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

okay here is a rough draft and any admin or experienced person feel free to edit this. its 1am here and i gotta head to bed to get up in 5 hours for work. if its the same when i get back from work ill try to touch it up a little. 
i have a link to a picture provided by ration1802(i havent asked permission yet from him/her so would like to get permission before using the link in the sticky)

okay gn haha



*Safe bedding:*

Carefresh
Aspen
Yesterdays news
Fleece, towels, old shirts and the likes.
bio-catolet(uk only?)
carpet(suggested with fleece over top?...with permission of ration1802
i would like to show his picture of how he/she has done it
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/befferoo/Hammocks/shelf.jpg




*Unhealthy bedding:*
Kitty kitter(certain types, especially clay based or wood based litters)
paper kitty litter should be fine as long as its not scented)

Cedar chips and pretty much any wood chip or shavings,pine chips are also bad. 

corn based bedding(can mold very fast and be toxic to your rats)

paper towels, tissues, any random paper product that isnt specifically designed for bedding(such as yesterdays news
and similiar beddings is fine as long as its free of chemicals and is unscented) is
bad for your rats

alfalfa hay(rats can't digest alfalfa, some rats have a tendency to eat the hay, so it is not a good
bedding, and really i wouldnt give it to your rats at all, it can also be dusty).
and of course, no bedding is bad bedding also.


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

Did someone say alfalfa hay was bad too? It depends whether your rat eats it or not, and correct me if im wrong but is corn based bedding bad too?

I too have responded to quite a few different posts regarding sawdust lately so this I think this is a good idea.


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## crapola (Feb 12, 2007)

all newspapers in the countries represented by the people on this forum are printed with non-toxic soy-based ink. it is fine for ratties.

in australia, the paper kitty litter is called "breeders choice" (paper pellets). we can also get a "dr harry" brand of paper pulp kitty litter. its the same as the woolworths and coles homebrand paper pulp litter.

and tissues make great bedding.


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## junior_j (Jan 24, 2008)

I think shredded paper can be ok we use it for igloo's but then i am not 100% lol theres next to no ink on the shredded paper we use lol 

I use magazines (old ones) on the bottom of my cage and my rats do not tend to eat it lol but they do move it i limit the pages which have loads of ink.

I heard J clothes are bad because of dust but again i am not 100% sure
Jess x


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Of course you can use that pic, kancerr 

Don't forget to add aspen shavings to the list of good litters/bedding

Maybe you can also put a petition out for pics of cages using these litters, as an example to the newbs?

I've found carpet works really well - it's also durable, strong enough for those PITA wire floors. I've not tried cleaning yet - but I imagine a good long soak and a scrub should sort it out just fine. (And yes, cover with fleece!) Lol


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i think you should also add in relative costs and ordor control qualities. as this is another question that gets asked alot about in concerns to litter. 

i would also keep the generality of cat litter out of the good list. yesterdays news is a cat litter but any non-paper based cat litter is bad. i think it would just make it clearer and less confusing to those quickly scanning. 

finally i think a bit of detail of what each product is would be helpful. not everyone is going to know what the heck carefresh is or what yesterdays news is. and it may be worth noting that rats can be litter trained (which is usually used in cojunction with fabric liners). but this is a good start certainly. thank you for your hard work. 

to answer the questions about loose newspaper and corncob bedding: corn cob bedding is not recommended because of the mold the builds in it very quickly when wet. loose newspaper is not recommended as the sole litter as it is very messy, and not that absorbant. it is a great thing for them to play and nest with but not very effective at keeping the cage clean.


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

i just got off work, i will edit this here shortly with the info and suggestions people have added. in the mean time keep the suggestions coming. everything people have said so far sounds good. and im glad you agree that shredded paper is no good as a bedding, great fun but should be discarded within 24 hours maximum.

hopefully i can pretty much complete this today, i dont see why i shouldnt be able to get it pretty much done. thanks for all the input.

i would say a couple hours. its 5pm here, should have it all ready for another check through with everybody by 10pm.

edit:
i did some quick editing to the previous list in case anybody goes looking at it and doesnt read the whole thread and understand that it is an unfinished list and decides to use anything that isnt right.

working on it now. will still be a little while until its done because i would like to do as twitch said and get some odor control levels, average price range and things like that.


also i think ration suggested this, but if you have any pictures of your beddings being used please post links to them here so i can sort through them and add them as examples.


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## mopydream44 (Jun 10, 2007)

don't forget to mention pine in the bad list


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

info needed still:

i am having a hard time finding info on bio catolet bedding. i believe it is safe for the rats from what i read when searching through the forums. anybody who can give me a average price(and for what size bag of bedding) and your opinion on how well it controls odor. thank you

average price people pay for fleece. 
how much did you say you paid for the carpetting squares ration? also anybody who uses fleece, carpeting and the like as the main bedding please give me a review on it, odor control, average monthly cost(or however long it takes until it needs to be replaced)

if somebody could also write up a brief description on how to go about litter training your rat please do so. i have yet to do it. also please provide with the description what items are needed and what not. thanks

(i will keep editing this post here whenever i need info on something for the list so i can get some help filling in the blanks ;] )


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Here you go;

Fleece










Carefresh (sorry, don't have better! I have searched!)










Bio-Catolet from Sainsburys (Â£4.49 - 12L)
Bob Martin Paper Based Cat Litter (also a reccommended litter) is Â£1.98 from Asda (Edit: sorry! This is for 10L)

(both of the above are from supermarket websites)

I use Bio-Catolet for my litter trays - and it really helps with the smell. I never smell the girls' litter any more


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

great list is coming together nicely thanks to everybody who has contributed their information and opinions.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Litter training;

You need a decent sized litter tray - the plastic bottom to a tub, a ferret litter tray, large casserole dish (has been used in an emergency!) for a couple of examples

This is how I went about it, anyway;

Cleaned the cage thoroughly, set up the litter dish with the litter mixed with a small amount of soiled bedding from the dirty cage. (This will encourage the 'poop' smell).

Spot clean the clean cage on a daily basis (I did it twice a day); (get good and dirty) you'll need to pick up any poops that are scattered around the cage and add them to the litter tray. This will hopefully give the rat the idea of "hey, maybe this is where I should go..?"

Hopefully they should get the idea quite quickly and begin to use the litter tray within a week. (7 out of 8 of my girls picked it up right away).

Remember that it's easier to put the litter tray in the corner/spot already allocated as the communial loo - that way you're not breaking habits, but adding to them


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

These are UK based and what I currently use.

Pets At Home Safe Paper Bedding, Â£2.99 for a medium sized bag.










Pets At Home Wood Litter Pellets, Â£2.99 for a 7 litre bag. I use this for the girls litter tray.


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

took me longer than i thought to go to the store and cook for the birds and rats tonight. i will be giving this more time tomorrow. so keep the pictures and info coming. tomorrow night and it should all be together as long as im not missing any info. thanks again for all the help in getting this thing done.


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

here is an an updated rough draft. will finalize it tomorrow afternoon, still need to add more pictures and odor control levels for each bedding. if there is anything else i am forgetting or any suggestions for this guide please let me know. if any admins or experienced rat owners have any info or things that should be changed asap, you can reach me on aim as long as i am not at work or sleeping. i spend all day at home with the pets, lol...

pm for s/n

and dont worry, i will spell check and grammar it tomorrow also ;]

Safe bedding:

Carefresh(http://reviews.petco.com/3554/3370/reviews.htm) 30 liters will cost you around 10$usd
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/befferoo/Rats/KatieIgloo.jpg


Aspen(http://www.pets-warehouse.com/Vpasp/shopexd.asp?id=138401) 5 cubic feet will cost you around 13$usd

Yesterdays news(http://www.yesterdaysnews.com/smallAnimalBedding.html) 20lb bag will cost around 14$usd

Fleece(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/befferoo/Hammocks/beastfinal9.jpg), towels, old shirts and the likes.

bio-catolet(Â£4.49 - 12L average)

Bob Martin Paper Based Cat Litter (also a reccommended litter) is Â£1.98 from Asda

carpet(suggested with fleece over top
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/befferoo/Hammocks/shelf.jpg


I would also like to add that litter training your rats is possible! here is a
useful guide(provided by ration1802) to litter training if anybody who wants to give it a try;

Litter training;

You need a decent sized litter tray - the plastic bottom to a tub, a ferret litter tray, large casserole dish (has been used in an emergency!) for a couple of examples

This is how I went about it, anyway;

Cleaned the cage thoroughly, set up the litter dish with the litter mixed with a small amount of soiled bedding from the dirty cage. (This will encourage the 'poop' smell).

Spot clean the clean cage on a daily basis (I did it twice a day); (get good and dirty) you'll need to pick up any poops that are scattered around the cage and add them to the litter tray. This will hopefully give the rat the idea of "hey, maybe this is where I should go..?"

Hopefully they should get the idea quite quickly and begin to use the litter tray within a week. (7 out of 8 of my girls picked it up right away).

Remember that it's easier to put the litter tray in the corner/spot already allocated as the communial loo - that way you're not breaking habits, but adding to them



Unhealthy bedding:
Kitty litter(certain types, especially clay based or wood based litters)
paper kitty litter should be fine as long as its not scented and chemical free, such as yesterdays news)

Cedar, Pine and softwood shavings are toxic and can cause respiratory problems.

corn based bedding(can mold very fast and be toxic to your rats)

paper towels, tissues, any random paper product that isnt specifically designed for bedding is
bad for your rats

alfalfa hay(rats can't digest alfalfa, some rats have a tendency to eat the hay, so it is not a good
bedding, and really i wouldnt give it to your rats at all, it can also be dusty).


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## AlxBlack17 (Dec 3, 2007)

I would recommend editing the line that says "Cedar chips and pretty much any wood chip or shavings. pine is also bad." It might confuse people since it is stated above that aspen shavings are fine. Change it to something along the lines of to "Cedar, Pine and softwood shavings are toxic and can cause respiratory problems." 

And paper towels and tissue can be used as a nesting/bedding material, just not as the main litter/bedding for the entire cage.


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

okay will add paper to the okay for nesting or bedding as long as it is cleaned every day?


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## crapola (Feb 12, 2007)

for those of us who change bedding and litter every day, tissues and shredded paper make excellent bedding and nesting materials. its no different to using fleece as bedding/nesting material. fabric needs to be changed every day too.


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

what types of fabric? i give my guys big fluffy towels and clean them once a week or toss and give them new ones. why would you wanna use a bedding or material that has to be washed or thrown out every day, i think some unexperienced peolpe might neglect and not do that. especially with parents who think its a waste of water and electricity to run it through the washer and drier?

i guess we can make another list for things that are okay but not as bedding and should be cleaned or changed every day? how should i go about this?
and twitch or ration can you send me a pm if you have aim so we can discuss a few things i need clarification on.


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## Learna (Mar 4, 2008)

Old clothes would be good too, you can wash and when you first put it in it will have your scent on it so it may help to get ratties used/more used to you....all I have other than towels and fleece


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

Learna said:


> Old clothes would be good too, you can wash and when you first put it in it will have your scent on it so it may help to get ratties used/more used to you....all I have other than towels and fleece


will add clothes and that it is especially a good idea for new rats to help them get used to you. thanks.


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## crapola (Feb 12, 2007)

i use fleece and change it every day. i do ratty washing at least twice a week, lol!! they pee just as much on fleece as they do on anything else.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

you can actually get yesterdays new for about $15 CDN for a 30lbs bag so i think your cost for it is a bit high. i don't know about the costs for the other stuff as i don't use it.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

I think you can always add a section "How often to change the litter?"

I think (other than picking the litter itself) it's one of the most ambiguous things about bedding. I personally use fleece and towels, and change once a week. Many change daily, others bi-daily etc.

Maybe you can add a bit saying "Bedding should be changed on a regular basis that is suitable to you and your rat; but please remember that ANY litter must be changed at least once a week. If using a litter tray, it is reccommended that once the litter tray becomes soiled, (usually after two or three days) you should freshen/change the litter"

Actually, that reminds me. I forgot to add a bit in the litter training thing about changing the litter - and if changing the litter while training to keep some of the soiled litter in the tray to encourage continuity of the training. Do you want me to reword etc and get it back to you?

Also, if you want a Carefresh estimate for UK - it's approx Â£4 / 10L


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

yes if you could reword it and make any last changes to the litter training guide do that and i will add change it, thanks. good idea about making another post about how often to change certain bedding.

i googled and got a price from petco.com for the pricing of yesterdays news, 14.99 usd but i can add the prices for diff currency as long as people provide them for me.

i will be posting the final product of this here shortly. after i do that i guess we can work on some guidelines to changing bedding, how often and things like that.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Litter training;

You need a decent sized litter tray - the plastic bottom to a tub, a ferret litter tray, large casserole dish (has been used in an emergency!) for a couple of examples. You will also need a litter that isn't what you are using for regular bedding; for example, if you are using Carefresh as regular bedding, use YN for the litter tray. The idea is to identify a new 'space' in which to do the do.

How to train (or how I managed to do it anyway  )

Clean the cage thoroughly, set up the litter dish with the litter mixed with a small amount of soiled bedding from the dirty cage. (This will encourage the association with the 'poop' smell).

Spot clean the clean cage on a daily basis (I did it twice a day). You'll need to get good and dirty and pick up any poops that are scattered around the cage and add them to the litter tray. This will hopefully give the rat the idea of "hey, maybe this is where I should go..?"

Hopefully they should get the idea quite quickly and begin to use the litter tray within a week. You will need to change the litter occasionally as it gets soiled, most do this approximately every two or three days (or as required). Remember, during the training period, you need to mix new litter with a little of the soiled litter. This will help keep the litter = poop place idea in the rats minds. Once your rats are trained, a fresh change of litter shouldn't be a problem.

Remember that it's easier to put the litter tray in the corner/spot already allocated as the communial loo - that way you're not breaking habits, but adding to them

How's that?


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

okay i need some peoples opinions on how absorbant things are for the following products;

carefresh
yesterdays news
Aspen
bio-catolet
fleece
carpet
Bob Martin Paper Based Cat Litter

i have used carefresh and yesterdays news and have my opinions on how well they work, but would like to have a few other opinions on those also to compare my idea of how well they work to others. if one person has already stated an opinion on how well it controls odor and absorbs, please post yours also. i will keep them all in mind and come up with the closest idea i can.

if you can please rate them on a scale of 1-10 that would help too so i can get some kind of average if people have varying opinions.

thank you

guide sounds good ration, thanks a lot for the good guide to litter training. i will be trying it myself starting this weekend ;D


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

its not done yet but i am posting it to see if i can make sure its all formatted correctly. still need to add some information.




*Safe bedding:
*
you can click on a link under the bedding description to see what it looks like and how its used.

*Carefresh:* 30 liters will cost you around 10$usd, Â£4 / 10L
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/befferoo/Rats/KatieIgloo.jpg <-- how it is used
http://reviews.petco.com/3554/3370/reviews.htm <---see the actual packaging it comes in


*Aspen:* 5 cubic feet will cost you around 13$usd
http://www.pets-warehouse.com/Vpasp/shopexd.asp?id=138401 <--see the packing it comes in

*Yesterdays news:* 30lb bag will cost around 16$usd, $15 CDN for 30lbs
http://www.yesterdaysnews.com/smallAnimalBedding.html <-- what the packing looks like.


*Fleece, towels, old shirts and the likes.*
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/befferoo/Hammocks/beastfinal9.jpg <--picture of fleece being used.

*bio-catolet*(Â£4.49 - 12L average)

*Bob Martin Paper Based Cat Litter *(also a reccommended litter) is Â£1.98 from Asda
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2302/2417228710_46ddf41639.jpg <--picture of the packing.

*carpet:* suggested with fleece over top
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/befferoo/Hammocks/shelf.jpg <--carpet/fleece being used.


I would also like to add that litter training your rats is possible! here is a
useful guide(provided by ration1802) to litter training if anybody who wants to give it a try;

*Litter training;*

You need a decent sized litter tray - the plastic bottom to a tub, a ferret litter tray, large casserole dish (has been used in an emergency!) for a couple of examples. You will also need a litter that isn't what you are using for regular bedding; for example, if you are using Carefresh as regular bedding, use YN for the litter tray. The idea is to identify a new 'space' in which to do the do.

How to train (or how I managed to do it anyway Wink )

Clean the cage thoroughly, set up the litter dish with the litter mixed with a small amount of soiled bedding from the dirty cage. (This will encourage the association with the 'poop' smell).

Spot clean the clean cage on a daily basis (I did it twice a day). You'll need to get good and dirty and pick up any poops that are scattered around the cage and add them to the litter tray. This will hopefully give the rat the idea of "hey, maybe this is where I should go..?"

Hopefully they should get the idea quite quickly and begin to use the litter tray within a week. You will need to change the litter occasionally as it gets soiled, most do this approximately every two or three days (or as required). Remember, during the training period, you need to mix new litter with a little of the soiled litter. This will help keep the litter = poop place idea in the rats minds. Once your rats are trained, a fresh change of litter shouldn't be a problem.

Remember that it's easier to put the litter tray in the corner/spot already allocated as the communial loo - that way you're not breaking habits, but adding to them


*
Unhealthy bedding:*

*Kitty litter*(certain types, especially clay based or wood based litters)
paper kitty litter should be fine as long as its not scented and free of chemicals.)

*Cedar, Pine and softwood shavings *are toxic and can cause respiratory problems.

*corn based bedding*(can mold very fast and be toxic to your rats)

*paper towels, tissues*, any random paper product that isnt specifically designed for bedding is
not suggested for your rats.(yesterdays news
and similiar beddings is fine as long as its free of chemicals and is unscented) 

*alfalfa hay*(rats can't digest alfalfa, some rats have a tendency to eat the hay, so it is not a good
bedding, and really i wouldnt give it to your rats at all, it can also be dusty).


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

as far as good beddings and bad beddings am i missing any popular brand or types of bedding? i gotta do somethings for an hour or 2 and will be back to work on this a little more and hopefully get it all ready. so while im gone please post any suggestions so i can take care of it as soon as i get back, thanks.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Looking good to me. 

Do you want some pics of Bio-Catolet in use in my litter trays? I can take some tomorrow. Also of the bag I use?

There's a link to the Bob Martin's (a pic) on the thread in general "where can I buy bedding?" or something like that

Thank you for putting this together


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## kancerr (Apr 7, 2007)

np yes a picture of the bio catolet in use and the bag would be nice thx
gonna go look for the link for bobs martin


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