# New rats.



## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Well, shamefully, i bought my first rats at the pet shop yesterday, they were just SO cute i couldnt resist.
Ive named them Jet and Splodge. Jet i watched for a while and knew hed make a nice pet, splodge however i didnt even get to see as the pet shop owner actually put the wrong rat into the box and sealed the box before i had a chance to see.
They had only been in the pet shop one day, and you could tell they were young, but not THAT young, is there anyway to make a fair estimate on their age? (their both male)
splodge is the most active, when i put him in the cage he was running around exploring (while squeeking, which ive never heard a rat do?? Fear/excitement/ill?) and he has a little sneeze now and then, i hope hes not ill, but i assume it could be because he was kept in hay, which actually smelt dusty to me. He will come to the cage door and peer out to me then run back in squeeking. Jet is not so active and hides in the house, and when i remove the house he clings to the corner of the cage. But, he lets me pick him up. Not for long, but he atleast tolerates me picking him up, he has a smell around and runs back in the cage, he also lets me scratch and smooth him without fuss. But splodge whips his head around and im not sure if hes wanting a smell or if he wants to bite me, splodge is also very skittish and arches his back when i try to pick him up (probably because of his experience with the pet shop owner, she picked him up by his tailed and just flung him in the box! My mum was fuming and actually said out loud 'oh my god buy them all', but my cage isnt big enough for 9 rats. he either does a little sneeze or hiss when i try to interact with him. Splodge has bit me 3 times, not hard, but hard enough to shock me. Is this normal? I screeched so that he thought it hurt me and he turned away, but tried again two more times, is this a bad sign? Also i think even if i stuck my fingers in jets mouth he wouldnt bite me, but it is day one so who knows! 
I suppose their still nervous, and obviously not socialised, their food in the pet shop looked like friggin hamster food and they didnt even have any water down. Theyve also hid a whole bowl of food in their house now haha
i already love my rats, but splodge is making me nervous, i just want some comments on what ive mentioned above and any advice on trust training if you dont mind  thank you


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## renegaderob18 (Apr 7, 2011)

It seems to me the pet store where you got the rats should be shut down to be honest. Sounds like they could care less about rats, which is very frustrating. What you need to do is read the trust rules for rats in the forum. Once you do that you can start gaining the rats trust. It may take longer then the average rat due to the way the were handled before you got them so do not give up. It's a shame they were handled that way, but you can show them love and give them that much needed relaxing home they need. They will be sneezing here and there as all rats do, especially in a new environment and cage. As long as they are not doing it every minute, they will be fine as they adjust. I honestly do believe that if you take your time and show them they can trust you and that you won't hurt them like the pet shop owner did then they will stop biting, being shy, and will relax. Just remember it takes more time with a rat that was handled the way they were before they will trust you. Spend as much time with them as you can. Try hand feeding them and most of all be patient.


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Hi again. Thanks for the advice and info! Yeah i read the trust gaining advice i only just realised that topic was there after i posted!
Well i picked up splodge today, not for long but he allowed me to put my hands around him at least, but he ran back into his cage squeeking like a maniac, he seemed a bit miffed that i took his bedding out again to be honest lol but he also let me scratch around his ears today. Jet stayed in my pocket today and let me scratch and smooth him and hold him in my hands, he even started climbing all over me.
They seem like lovely rats anyway. I hate that pet shop, i may even write a complaint to the council, as they didnt even have fresh food or water and it was like a summers day and its only a small stuffy shop and its full of hot aquariums!
Apart from behind the ears, where else do they like being scratched and is there anything i shouldnt do?


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

I just tried bribing splodge out with some cereal, which worked, but the last time he came out he started sniffing around my hand like he couldnt find it, he bit once (didnt hurt really) and i yelped and he started squeeking and sniffing again, then bit again, he went straight passed the cereal like it wasnt there?? The second time i yelped he freaked out, started squeeking and ran back in the house and started grinding his teeth. Wierd.


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## renegaderob18 (Apr 7, 2011)

Do you know what kind of rats they are? If not can you describe them, because white rats have a harder time seeing.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

it's not the color of the rat itself... it's the color of the rat's eyes. the lighter the eye color, the worse their vision, so pink and red eyed rats are more prone to feel things out with their mouth.


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## renegaderob18 (Apr 7, 2011)

You are correct Jag. I meant to say that, but typed something else. Too much thinking I guess.


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Oh yeah im aware of that, had a pretty blind albino ferret once ha!
Jet is all black or chocolatey brown with white legs and belly and a white tip tail, he can see fine. Splodge has black eyes though, and hes mostly white, with a thick grey stripe down his back, grey splodges on his face and a black triangle behind his neck. They both have black eyes so i dont see how they could be blind? Jet climbs much more than splodge though, while splodge stays on the floor more than anything (at least while im looking anyway). I had a long think, and maybe it was because he could smell the cereal all over my fingers from dipping my hands in the box?


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Day 3 and theres already a huge difference. Held them both for quite a long time earlier. The grey/white one even let me keep my hands around him for a while, and the black one actually tried climbing back out of the cage to me but then changed his mind and went back in lol. The black one even ate in front of me, its the first time id seen him eat! By the way im calling them by colour because i havnt actually decided on a name now if your wondering lol my little sister wants to think of names and she hasnt seen them yet so got to wait ah... 

Oh and i might be wrong, but i think the grey one may be a dumbo? His ears are much larger and point to the sides, but the black one has small ears that point up. i have a feeling the grey one isnt that young, hes a bit bigger than the black one... Im not sure though.
I know you cant tell a rats age by looking at him, but is there a way to tell their under/over a certain age? They seem much smaller than the rats in college, but i cant really compare as i would need to see them together. All the pet shop told me was 'over 7 weeks' and she was quite rude and seemed angry that i asked. Ive asked where their from and shes told me that their from a rat breeding farm  i feel terrible. 
Hes still making those squeeking noises, especially when hes running and sniffing around. Ive watched his breathing, and when he sat in my hand he was breathing super fast but, no squeek. 
I feel like a paranoid mother  i love them already


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Hmm trying to post pictures using my phone. Probably wont work..


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Sorry one more time lol


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## Jekka08 (Apr 24, 2011)

The grey/white has some gorgeous markings and yes he's definitely a Dumbo, I'm pretty sure he's a roan (aka husky) as well. And your right about the black one too, he's a top eared black/chocolate Berkshire. I don't think the roan looks older though, often rats from the same litter can vary in size, my largest rats and my smallest rats out of both girls and boys are siblings. Besides, where I live pet shops can't mix stock so to say, meaning they can't put animals from different litters and of different ages into the same cage. I don't know if this rule applies to everywhere though, but It defiantly should.


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Thank you jekka  i think hes gorgeous too!
I think a trip to the vet is needed though, but nothing is open until tuesday (unless their open until 12 on a bank holiday?). The 'squeaking' is constant and i can hear a crackling sound too when they breath, its not there when their calm though, but im still going to the vet as both of them are sneezing quite a lot too! Hope their ok. Theyre both eating loads though and look pretty normal besides the breathing.. 
Cant be too serious though can it? Theyre only young...eek im worried.
Thanks for all the replies


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

I don't mean to be scary but URIs can kill rats fairly fast. Your description says they need a vet ASAP.

They should clear up with meds.


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

I know, just wishful thinking that theyl be ok on my part! 
I hope they can hold out til then. The grey one is VERY active though and is very greedy, where as the black one hides away a lot, i have to barge into the room without warning just to catch him out climbing!
Do you think they stand a good chance? Are there any signs that its 'too late'?


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## renegaderob18 (Apr 7, 2011)

My rat did make it after she stopped eating and drinking. It was about 1 day after I noticed her not eating or drinking that she saw the doc and they gave her meds for the uri. She made it there for two days and died. The uri came on all of a sudden out of nowhere. If the rats slow down, stop eating or drinking are a few signs to watch and especially if the breathing gets worse.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

From your description, no, it is not too late, and it's never too late to try!

They are not dying right now but if the infection progresses they might. Just get them to a vet for some baytril and they should be just fine. 

If it helps, I had a little baby rat go into serious resperitory distress from a URI, and both he and the other infected male were fine after meds.


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Hmm i hope they do recover 
the grey one was making wierd faces today and rubbing his nose but after he sneezed he looked more comfortable.. The black one doesnt seem nearly as bad though, i think i dont see him move much because hes shy, he kept me awake last night running and climbing about with the other one!.
Is their anything i can do in the mean time to help them? Im so angry at the pet shop right now for purchasing sick rats, i think the grey one may have a small lump on his groin too. Im tempted to have rspca look into where ever the rats came from, cant be good. at least theyre eating though, which is a little bit reassuring.


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## renegaderob18 (Apr 7, 2011)

Eating and drinking are a good sign. Shows signs of strength yet and that it may not be to bad. Just keep making sure they eat and drink. Did they seem sick the day you brought them home from the pet store or when?


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

I didnt get to see the grey and white one in the pet shop as i picked a different one (but obviously i dont regret it i love him!) so he must have been cuddled up under the rest of the litter. The black one was more active in the shop but really shy, but he was eating etc. None of them were sneezing or anything (or at least i didnt notice it) in the shop, but to be honest they didnt move much until she put food and water down. But when i brought them home they were making noises, literally as soon as i put them in the cage, perhaps i didnt notice it in the shop? They look pretty healthy, their eyes and nose is clear, theyve got lovely glossy fur, and theyd only been in the shop one day.
At home i had them on pet safe hamster shredded paper (the soft type) and recycled pet safe paper from pets at home. I took the hamster bedding out 2 days ago though as i was only using it in their house. The rest of the cage is covered in fleece, ive even changed their house to fleece too and just got some shredded paper in their giant tube. I dont know what else to do now.
How active do you think they should be through the day? I sometimes catch the black one out climbing, but he didnt move much after 6pm yesterday, in fact hes still in the same place in his tube, the grey one kept me up squeaking and climbing last night but the black one didnt move. I put some food in the tube for him this morning and watched him eat some apple, banana and some rat food just to make sure he eats, he doesnt snatch food like the grey one either but he is eating.


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Caught them fighting today, and i noticed that the black one hides in the corner on the top of the cage a lot (thats why i hung the giant tube up, he now sleeps in there) and the grey one sleeps in the big wooden house on the bottom. I was watching them today and when i put food in the cage the black one didnt budge but the grey one was out right away, he didnt just eat the food he carried it in BULK back to his house, he tried to fit as many pieces he could in his mouth and then some in his hands and just kept running back to the house stashing the food rather than eating it. I took the bowl out as the black one hadnt had a chance and i personally gave him some food, and the grey one tried to take it from him! The black one is also sneaking to the bowl as if not to let the grey one know. Then the black one tried to go in the wooden house and they faught  the black one is half his size and let out a giant squeak, then a few little squeals from inside the house. And not so long ago i was stroking the grey one and he bit me and drew blood!


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## renegaderob18 (Apr 7, 2011)

My rats get active for only about an hour or two during the day, but not all rats are. They are more active at night like all rats are I think the taking food and hiding it has to do with the rats not having food so now when they get it they hide it or fight over it. Over time this should stop as long as they see they have food everyday and there is no need to fight. My one rat girl when she gets food she will try to hide it or store it somewhere, but if one of the other rats gets to her stash she is fine with it, because she knows she will get more. With what your rats went through at the pet store, it will take them time getting used to having food and water and being treated well.


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Ok thanks that sounds about right


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Well my mum rang the vets yesterday and they said to leave it a few days encase theyre just sneezing from being in a new place. Now the dumbo rat has red coming from his eyes and nose and im proper freaking out  i have no credit to ring them again and neither does my mum, and i dont think she even cares to be honest as hes 'just a rat' . Im panicking so much  hes still eating and really active, but hes sneezing much more. Im going to find a way to book him in tomorrow. I feel terrible i feel so helpless


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## renegaderob18 (Apr 7, 2011)

I would get him into the vet as soon as you can. Sneezing eases up quickly if it's due to a new environment unless they are allergic to something in the new cage like bedding or whatever else you may have in there. Then again it could be they had it from when you got them from the pet store.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

He's obviously ill.. Call the vet back and demand meds. They should not expect you to pay for the second visit after denying treatment.


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

I rang a different vet today and he demanded that i go in at that moment, but i couldnt as i was 20 miles away! As soon as i mentioned breathing problems and rats he seemed to know that it was high priority he was even willing for me to pop in today without appointment but i was in college! Im fitted in for 8 30 in the morning tomorrow and ive been quoted at £30 for a course of baytril for two rats including the consultation fee, does that sound right? I feel a little more at ease now.


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Saw the vet today, she couldnt believe how ill the dumbo rat was for such a young age, i could tell she doubted him recovering. she estimated them at 2 years old as they weighed next to nothing. 
She gave me 2ml baytril and said to give 0.3ml twice a day to each, does that sound right?
How the **** do you give it to them? I just tried for half an hour solid to give it to them by sringe and wasted some, its a nightmare!


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## LoneOakRats (Mar 23, 2011)

lauraaa said:


> Saw the vet today, she couldnt believe how ill the dumbo rat was for such a young age, i could tell she doubted him recovering. she estimated them at 2 years old as they weighed next to nothing.
> She gave me 2ml baytril and said to give 0.3ml twice a day to each, does that sound right?
> How the **** do you give it to them? I just tried for half an hour solid to give it to them by sringe and wasted some, its a nightmare!


Poor things, I'm glad you found a rat-competent vet! I *think* that is a pretty high dose, so hopefully it will knock out whatever they have. Sounds like you have the icky tasting baytril. Do you have any chocolate or strawberry syrup you could mix it with? Baby food is another option. I mix it with peanut butter and put it on a tiny piece of bread kinda like a sandwich and it works well. Good luck!


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

lauraaa said:


> Saw the vet today, she couldnt believe how ill the dumbo rat was for such a young age, i could tell she doubted him recovering. she estimated them at 2 years old as they weighed next to nothing.
> She gave me 2ml baytril and said to give 0.3ml twice a day to each, does that sound right?
> How the **** do you give it to them? I just tried for half an hour solid to give it to them by sringe and wasted some, its a nightmare!


She said they were young, but then estimated them at 2 years old? I am confused.


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## renegaderob18 (Apr 7, 2011)

Hopefully the meds will work and they will get back on their feet.


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Sorry i got up at 5am that morning. They are 2 months old not 2 years lol


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Another failed attempt at giving baytril  im gonna have to get more i think..
Ive been mixing it in baby fruit puree, its full of vitamins and minerals and its all real fruit, but it has to be A LOT of puree for them to even consider eating it, which means there ends up being waste. Also the black one eats much more than the dumbo rat because the dumbo rat isnt interested, and hes so ill hes mostly confined to his bed . Do you think it will work in banana? I know they both love banana.
The dumbo rat has gone down hill big time, the squeaking is loud and constant and its actually accompanied by a loud wheeze too, and he often opens his mouth wide as if gasping for air, i can hear him crying sometimes when hes panicking im sure of it, and he shakes his hands around not knowing what to do. The black one has only just started the squeak, and ive caught him gasp for air once i think, like he was panicking. 
I really dont think theyre gonna make it, perhaps the black one, but not the dumbo rat.
By the way, dumbo rat = Dumble, black rat = Dobbie official names now....


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

you need to use something sweet and strong flavored like pancake syrup, jam/jelly, etc. baytril has a really nasty taste like alcohol and if they can smell it they turn it down right away. 

by the way, if they're open mouth gaping... baytril alone is unlikely gonna help much. it takes around 4 days for it to even get to a constant enough level in the bloodstream to take action. they need combo antibiotics, possible nebulizer or steam treatments... if there's not a lot of mucous/discharge you can try running a hot shower and placing them in the bathroom, but be aware if they have fluids in their lungs or passageways this could make it worse.


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Is there a way of telling if they have fluid in their lungs?


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Sorry for all the confusion ive literally only had a few hours sleep the passed few days ive been watching them like a hawk 

they are 2 months old
0.03ml of baytril, diluted to 0.15 with water twice a day for each rat


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

And its 2.5%


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

I syringe meds to my rats, I could never get them to eat it in food and it's easier to be sure they take all of it.

If you need this, I'll outline how it's done-

I usually wrap my rats in something, like a cloth, so they are like a little burrito and can't fight. They can be held like this in one hand against a surface, just keep the cloth fairly snug and up so they cannot get thier forelegs out. They will have trouble fighting you in this position, belly down and confined, and they should sit still, but don't put undue pressure on them- be gentle.

Once they quit worming around, you can put the tip of the syringe in the corner of the mouth directly behind the incisors and give a small amount of the medicine. Don't let them wipe thier mouth on anything, or they will spit the meds out. You can continue giving tiny amounts until they have swallowed it all, then give them a treat and put them in the cage.

I hope everything goes well and your boys get better.
I have my mice on baytril right now, you think rats are tough to give it to...mice are 10000 times worse. They have such tiny mouths and tiny bodys.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

kinsey, your method can be extremely distressing to a rat, and trying to do that to a rat that is in severe respiratory distress as it is, is not really a good idea.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

I have had to do that with very new rats who are just WAY to skittish for me to do it the regular way.

I usually just hold them tight and stick it in the sides of their face and squirt it in fast before they can flail away.


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## lauraaa (Apr 7, 2011)

Dobbie seems to be on recovery. But dumble has just got worse, i thought he was gonna die last night he seemed to be choking, he made gargling noises had wet sneezes, and looked like he stopped breathing for a few seconds. He seems better today though but still rough. I tried the towel method but it was too upsetting, for everyone. The vet gave me new meds, synulox?


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## ratchilla (May 12, 2011)

Laura,

My rats are currently on meds as well. Sometimes they are great at taking it and other times they are fussy. Right now, I use a small bit of whipped cream and drop the meds on top of it if they don't take it willingly from the syringe. They eat it everytime. I hope you find something that works for you!


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