# Mean rat - putting to sleep? :(



## Karagraaf (Oct 14, 2011)

I hate to say this and so that is wHy I'm coming here first but I have 3 rats, two are very sweet. one is shy but very sweet(Cuckoo) and the other is very very sociable(Lucy). The third is just mean!(Dorothy) She fight with the others, although I don't think it's too bad but fighting was never an issue before I got her. She also is mean to us. She has bitten my 6 yr old, my husband, and me. I don't let my younger kids stick fingers in the cage or get near it. I have had her since about September I think. I have tried working with her in many different ways. I have seen some slight improvement. Meaning I can stick my hand in the cage without her attacking it. But she still bites us. I get her out to try and tame her. But it's getting to the point where no one gets her out for free range time because she will bit us.. I don't even want to but I do get her out to work with her. Today my daughter went to get out my other rat, Lucy and Dorothy went up and bit my daughter really bad!! I'm at the point where I'm angry and am just done. I love my rats, but I love my human children more of course! So what do I do? I can't have this mean rat in my house. I'm getting rid of her. If I try to sell her, who's going to want a mean rat, besides someone using it as food for a snake. Would it be better to just put her to sleep? I really hate to do that, and make such choices but I'm not getting her out anymore, I've been working with her for months and we've gotten nowhere. I know this is a long winded post- I'm just so conflicted. I don't like to just get rid of animals, and especailly put them to sleep but I don't know what else to do


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## Karagraaf (Oct 14, 2011)

And I don't mean to start anything with this post, I know most of you guys will be very against it, but it not like I'm happy about it, I truly just don't know what to do. I've been thinking a little bit and maybe I can keep her in a seperate cage and just not handle her. I don't know.


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## Babs (Jan 26, 2012)

Well, you could always offer her for adoption on a website, and then quiz the **** out of anybody who contacts you about it.


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## JessyGene (Feb 27, 2012)

I would really try to find someone who will take her...are there any rescues near you?


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## Paul_Julian (Oct 31, 2011)

Do you have this product where you live ? http://www.nutri-science.net/pets/pdfs/KalmAid DL.pdf
Try this, truly. About half of teaspoon once a day for about 2 weeks might cause miracle.

You dont write from where you got this mean rat. Is this from rescue ? From store , from snake owner ? Did you buy her in store ? From real rat breeder ? This facts are very important.

Have you tried this method ? http://www.ratfanclub.org/trust.html
If not - try it.

Putting to sleep is very very very last option. Why ? because you can put your hand into cage and touch her. Pity I dont live anywhere near you because I've been working with such rats.
Also, search around for someone who is owning wild rats. They are different, and I dont know about abroad, but in Poland some people tame her and have them tamed (though you cant fully tame wild rat). And such people are very experienced in working with mean rats.


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## CarrieD (Nov 20, 2011)

She sounds like a hand full, and you have to put your family first. Not everyone is set up to deal with that level of aggression and it's nothing against you if you aren't - rather to your credit that you're willing to do the best for her in this situation. 

I'd try the rescues in your area, and be very honest about why you need to rehome her. Rescues often have foster homes that are willing and able to take aggressive cases, and have the time and experience to deal with them. If she could be rehabilitated, great - if not, she'll have a safe home. You can help the rescue out with a donation towards her care and know she's in the best place she can be.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Post the situation honestly, there are a lot of crazy folk like me who LOOK for girls like her...you never know unless you ask right?


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## Maiden (Mar 9, 2012)

Honestly, you don't want to even give a snake a mean rat >.< It sounds like if someone tried to turn her into a feeder she'd kill the snake. (It has been known to happen.)

I would try and get her to someone more experienced.


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## British (Apr 2, 2012)

I don't really think she's a "mean rat" - I think she's trying to tell you something. I agree with the others - she would be best off with a person who is willing to take on a challenging animal. I think it's great that you have tried working with her and don't want to give up on her; I really hope you won't put her down.


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## 1a1a (May 6, 2011)

It's all been said, attempt to rehome. Another notion, she could be hormonal, might she calm down with a spay? 

Absolutely no judgement for putting the kids first, that's totally reasonable.


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## Karagraaf (Oct 14, 2011)

Ok. I decided I won't put her down, I just feel terrible making that kind of a choice for animal that isn't suffering. I postid an ad on craigslist and was honest about her and what she needed but it got flagged and removed??! Not sure why.So I guess for now I'll have her. Maybe someone could talk me through how to help her. I wouldn't say she is 100% mean. I know there is some good in her, and I do think she is maybe more scared then I realize but I just don't know what else to do. I would appriecaite any help on how to handle her. She doesn't like to be held (and I'm scared now and have to wear gloves and don't let her on my shoulder (I'm afraid she'll chew my ear! I have really long hair and my other rats love to get tangled in it and they often lick and nibble my ear- which I love but yeah, I don't trust Dororthy!) and when I do take her out for free range time she just hides the whole time.If I'm going to keep her, I need some serious help and tips! I feel like a failure with her. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I did get her from a pet store, so I'm sure that didn't help but the other 2 I got they were actually pretty tame and calm and the pet store's vet actually handled them a lot so i figured this one would be the same.


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## Paul_Julian (Oct 31, 2011)

Try my ideas from 1st page. And write a bit about the origin of this girl , it's always very important.
I heard about one case of putting the rat to sleep, but that rat was trully aggressive all the time (female) and when touched, she jumped and for the few times bit the owner's throat. 
Moreover, apart from that Kalm aid , I highly recommend , you can also check at vet and xray her head if there is no tumour.

I'm sure Kalm aid will help, especially if she's from pet store or rescue from snake.


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## Karagraaf (Oct 14, 2011)

I looked into the kalm aid but am a little confused by it.. Where do you get it, when do you give it to them? ( the link wasn't working for me so I was looking on my own)


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## ratjes (Mar 26, 2011)

Almost two years ago I saved a rat like this. She had bitten the other rats and everyone in the family. The owner insisted never to put her with another rat ever. I took her home and kept her by herself (I had no other rats at that time). I was her only company so she was depended on me for social contact.
It took me about two weeks to tame her. She was very scared when I got her. The key is to stay just outside her personal zone (the distance that she is not yet attacking you) and give her a treat. Never force anything. Let her teach you what she can handle.
Never put your fingers through the cage bars (she thinks it is food). Gradually come closer and feeding her treats from your flat hand. Holding food between fingers can get you bitten. When that all goes well, casually but briefly touch the top of the head. All the while talk to her in a calm and friendly voice. Never proceed to the next level before she is ready.
The situation here now: Miep is the sweetest rat I have ever had, she has never hurt me and I can pick her up from her cage, touch her sleepy face in her hammock etc. Once she trusted me I carefully introduced her to another rat and the two have been living happily ever after.
So if I were in your situation I would take her away from the others, put her in another room and start working with her. Once she is doing well, maybe introduce her to two babies and keep the two groups separate. Two babies because if she dies, the little ones are not alone and it is harder to pick on one rat if there are more.
Please keep us posted. I wish I could take her, I love taming the Wild Things.


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## Paul_Julian (Oct 31, 2011)

Karagraaf said:


> I looked into the kalm aid but am a little confused by it.. Where do you get it, when do you give it to them? ( the link wasn't working for me so I was looking on my own)


I bought mine at vet ( i live in Poland, and I dont know what things you can buy at vet in your country).
The vet had big bottle , and filled big syringe with the liquid. I paid not much for it , and gave it to my nervous rat , once a day about half of tea spoon.
Google tells me Kalm aid is also in tablets, but our vets has it in liguid.

It would be best to ask your vet. Also try the trust method. 
Good luck!


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## Karagraaf (Oct 14, 2011)

Thanks, both of you. I have many thing to try. Sometimes I can pet the top of her head. But I'm at the point where I'm really scared of her! Rodent bites scare me so bad! I will try a few things and hope I can come back with a good update eventually!


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## LunaWolf (Mar 1, 2011)

Sorry I don't have more to add, but I just wanted to note that metal mesh 'butcher's gloves' are very effective for protecting against rat bites when worn underneath a pair of normal gloves. Might be good for a confidence boost. Also, if you want to rehome her try posting in the adoption sections on rat forums, probably have a better chance there than craigslist.


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## Lacidia (Mar 20, 2012)

Some rats are just more aggressive than others. I had a hairless a few years back that I could never socialize to a cagemate. She was very aggressive with me as well. Took me putting her in her own cage in my room and letting herexplore my bed with me on it for weeks before she would venture on me...


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## A.ngelF.eathers (Jul 6, 2011)

In regards to the gloves, while they may protect you, they could be frightening to her; their texture, their scent.
I was about to clean cages and I had on a pair of gloves. I went to grab my boys to put them out and Kalabar, who has NEVER been aggressive or fearful with anybody, puffed up and turned and snapped at me. He didn't grab me, but it did scare me. I didn't know what was going on, I thought I hurt him. So I put my hand back to try again and he did the same time, but then ran into the corner. Suddenly it dawned on me that it was my gloves. I took them off and washed my hands, and suddenly he was friendly again.


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## ratjes (Mar 26, 2011)

A.ngelF.eathers said:


> In regards to the gloves, while they may protect you, they could be frightening to her; their texture, their scent.
> I was about to clean cages and I had on a pair of gloves. I went to grab my boys to put them out and Kalabar, who has NEVER been aggressive or fearful with anybody, puffed up and turned and snapped at me. He didn't grab me, but it did scare me. I didn't know what was going on, I thought I hurt him. So I put my hand back to try again and he did the same time, but then ran into the corner. Suddenly it dawned on me that it was my gloves. I took them off and washed my hands, and suddenly he was friendly again.


I think we all have to learn to think like a rat. Rats are prey animals so they will always be cautious and suspicious of something new to stay safe. These gloves are common sense to us but to them it is a rubber monster out to kill them.
Most aggression has its roots in fear. So even if these gloves protect you, you are forcing a rat to defend itself.
Also we tend to expect results too soon. Take the steps slow. The smaller the steps in training, the faster you make progress.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

She sounds fear aggressive...poor little bubber. We are going to have to figure out her triggers, what you are doing that is making her so frightened. With fearful rats you watch their body language. They will get tense ears, face, everything when things are moving too fast for their comfort level and are getting fearful. 

Can you put the cage up higher than little fingers can get to? Make it a Big Rule NOT to touch any of the rats without you there. The kids seeing you work with a difficult rat might be good for them, work with a problem animal, don't just dump it...although I totally understand where you are coming from.

Are you able to take a video of this girl in the cage? I'd love to see her body language. I have worked with many rats like this and if you were anywhere near me I woudl be coming to get her...I love challenges LOL


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## ratjes (Mar 26, 2011)

Jackson Tom said:


> And I don't mean to start anything with this post, I know most of you guys will be very against it, but it not like I'm happy about it, I truly just don't know what to do. I've been thinking a little bit and maybe I can keep her in a seperate cage and just not handle her. I don't know.​


This is the worst option; living in solitary confinement as a highly social animal. Don't do this to her. If you cannot work with her or find a safe home, then you may consider euthanizing her. But I think this rat can be trained to become a good rat. Isn't there a way to get her to Lilspaz?


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## A.ngelF.eathers (Jul 6, 2011)

ratjes said:


> This is the worst option; living in solitary confinement as a highly social animal. Don't do this to her. If you cannot work with her or find a safe home, then you may consider euthanizing her. But I think this rat can be trained to become a good rat. Isn't there a way to get her to Lilspaz?


I don't mean this to sound rude but it's going to anyway, so.
You realize that's a post by a bot, don't you? It was a quote from the OP and was followed by men's underwear links. I think that's been thrown out.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

Spam indeed. Sorry guys.


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## British (Apr 2, 2012)

A.ngelF.eathers said:


> I don't mean this to sound rude but it's going to anyway, so.
> You realize that's a post by a bot, don't you? It was a quote from the OP and was followed by men's underwear links. I think that's been thrown out.


WHAT?! You mean normal people don't put men's underwear in their all their posts?!  hahaha.


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## A.ngelF.eathers (Jul 6, 2011)

British said:


> WHAT?! You mean normal people don't put men's underwear in their all their posts?!  hahaha.


XD The bubble has been burst!


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## Paul_Julian (Oct 31, 2011)

We have the same spam bots on my polish forum, it's terrible >_<

Anyway, *Karagraaf*, I'm tottaly sure, you will have success ! Dont be afraid of her, she is even more scared of you  She' just a tiny rat , and very scared , and there are strange biiig people around. She needs peace and calm time, silence. I second Lilspaz idea about not letting the children be close to that scared one. At least for now.

If she was truly aggressive and mean, dominating would help. But she is scared.
Try with treats ! Give her tasty food on spoon ( if your afraid of bite) , some youghurt , baby food , baby cookies and such.

If you have bandaid on finger, dont let this hand close to rat, cause every rat will try to bite it.

And one advice. Be tough. Push the fear away. Really. Be strong. If she bites , dont move hand away, clench teeth and then gently unpin the rat from your hand. Breath deeply, move the rat away, close cage and look for tissue to stop bleeding.
She feels your fear. She knows that if she bites , you'll leave her alone. But she also will learn quickly that leaving alone = no treats . And treats are better and this big human gives treats, yay! 

I wish you both luck!


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## Karagraaf (Oct 14, 2011)

I'm so confused by this Spam stuff! I didn't see any ads , but that is kinda funny- men's underwear on a rat forum??Well I just couldn't put her to sleep, she is mean but I think she has a good heart still. I have been just opening up the cage and letting my daughter play with the nice one while I just sit there talking to Dorothy. Occasionally I will slowly put my hand in and kind of pet her from behind. I know she wants to sniff my hand and wish I could let her so she would get familar with me, but I just can't, that's usually when she bites (and I make sure my ands are clean) so far I have been taking her out and letting her walk on the coffee table and I sit on the edge on it and she'll even walk on me! So ths is god progress. However I am just afraid I will never be able to let her smell me or ave my and get too close without being afraid. I love that Lucy gives me kisses and "grooms" me and we have a nice bond. I feel that will never happen with Dorothy. I'm not sure if I'll get there but I am trying. I just would not have been able to live with myself if I put her to sleep- I'm glad I didn't do that.


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## Karagraaf (Oct 14, 2011)

Sorry for the typos! I'm trying to be braver about it. And I don't want to wear gloves because I want her to know me and my scent. But it's a lot more scary for me ths way! It's just that those little teeth are sharp! (and long!)


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