# Mites!!!



## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

How do I get rid of them? It's a small problem but what should I use and how do I apply it so my babys can be mite free? 

I've had mite problems in the past but I can't remember what I used.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

ivermectin kills mites like a dream. yuo give it to them orally then repeat the dose in 10 days. but you have to clean the heck out of the cage after each dose and through out any wooden toys. mites are more a pain to get rid of then anything but its not good for the rats to leave them, other illnesses can be caused by mites other then generally irritation from itching.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Where can I get it? How much dose it cost?


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## tungstenrat (Mar 13, 2007)

I have met with success with UltraCare Mite and Lice bird spray. Yep. The one for parrots. It's only six bucks for the bottle and it will last for a while. I read that there's a certain limit to the amount of pyrethrin a rat can take and it's somewhere like 0.15% or thereabouts. This bird spray is only 0.03% pyrethrin and 0.3% Piperonyl Butoxide and the rest is inert ingredients. My vet even gave me the nod on this one and I trust her judgement. My method of dosing? Read below, it's lengthy ...

1. Spray area you intend to treat your babies with the lice spray.

2. Remove babies from their cage. With partner (preferably) spray each baby according to the directions on the bottle. Rub the spray in gently so it gets near/onto the skin. Wipe off excess spray with cloth. Allow babies to play and groom. Yogi drops will help here.

3. Replace all bedding in cage, wash cage down with 10% bleach solution, rinse, spray down with hydrogen peroxide solution. Allow to dry. Reassemble cage.

4. Add rats.

5. No more itchies!

Comments and criticisms always welcome if I'm suggesting something I shouldn't.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i like is method better then mine where you have to do 2 cleanings. but if you want to go the ivermectin route you get it from the vet. and it will depend on the vet how much it will cost. it didn't cost me more $10 CDN and i have more left over if i ever need it again.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

I like tungstenrats method. 

??What's a yogi drop??

You mean yogurt?


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

something like it. but they look like little drops of it. kinda like herseys kisses but smaller and made from yogurt


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Sounds good where can you get'em?


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

You can get them from pretty much any pet store, my guys go nuts for them.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Oh boy.

Mites are not fun.

TWO ways to treat mites.

1) Ivermectin - its a horse de-worming paste you can order online, or get from a feed or tack store. You need to mix it really well since the whole dose is supposed to go into the horse so it might not be mixed very well. Feed your rats an uncooked grain of rice sized piece once a week for 3 weeks. Very very important!! This will kill each developing generation of the life cycle of the mites. Sadly you will need to throw out any wood/paper products in your cage, freeze your bedding (what do you use?) since they can hitch a ride and infest your rats from there, scrub down your cage, rinse it with bleach and water, then let it stand for 10 mins then scrub again, scrub all the toys (plastic) every week after dosing with Ivermectin. Its backbreaking but its the cheapest method and you don't need a prescription.
Word of warning, ivermectin is easy to overdose your rat so remember - mix well, UNCOOKED grain of rice size once a week for 3 weeks.
And another thing, Debbie D says there is now mites out there resistent to Ivermectin so it doesn't always work anymore.

2) Revolution - need a prescription from your vet. Easiest to use as you put a drop on the back of your rats neck and you are done, prevent them from grooming it off for a few minutes and you are done. Revolution is effective for 30 days which is longer than the life cycle of the mites themselves.

Sprays and OTC products are considered not a good idea. I used the 8 in 1 spray for my original licey boys to give them relief but didn't spray it on them, i spray it on a cloth and wiped it through their fur backwards. Tungsten you might want to try that method instead, since our rats respiratory systems are soo sensitive, sprays can be very detrimental. On another international rat forum I am on we have heard too many stories of rats dying from OTC products. 

Oh and yogies are great fun but in moderation, they are the chocolate bars of the rat world...here are the ingredients of a standard make of yogie

8 in 1 Yogies Fruit Flavor Hamster, Gerbil, Rat Treats
3.5 oz. - Fruit
SKU: 763764
Sugar, partially hydrogenated vegetable oil (palm kernel and palm), whey powder, dextrose, yogurt powder (cultured whey protein concentrate, cultured skim milk and yogurt culture), soya lecithin (an emulsifier), natural and/or artificial flavor, titanium dioxide, color added (red lake #40).
May contain trace amounts of peanuts to ingredient label.


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## lizzydeztic (Mar 15, 2007)

with revolution i assume you have to fully clean the cage as well right? i'm never buying a rat from a god **** pet store again. this is becoming a real hastle and i'm getting irritated. they have an uri AND mites. i don't have all the money in the world to treat both of these things at once.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

With Revolution you don't need to scrub the cage down, since the mites die before they can reinfest. I just dosed my foster boys 3 weeks ago, and didn't scrub or anything, they are doing just great and they were badly infested...poor sweeties.
Sadly URI's are very common as are mites when you take home petstore rats.


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

Yuck, I thought I got rid of my lice problem a couple of weeks ago just to find... they are back D: A couple of them survived or something like that D:

Back to nipping this in the bud. I hope they don't come back again. I think they might of hidden in the carpet or something, or maybe this is a new batch from somewhere else? Who knows.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Poppyseed said:


> Yuck, I thought I got rid of my lice problem a couple of weeks ago just to find... they are back D: A couple of them survived or something like that D:
> 
> Back to nipping this in the bud. I hope they don't come back again. I think they might of hidden in the carpet or something, or maybe this is a new batch from somewhere else? Who knows.


What did you use to treat the lice? What bedding do you use? Do you freeze it to kill any lice catching a ride? Did you treat all your rats at the same time?


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

What's URI??:?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Sky14 said:


> What's URI??:?


Upper respiratory infection.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

OOhhwww.....ok.

I'm still learning all the abrivs used on the web.:wink:


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Sky14 said:


> OOhhwww.....ok.
> 
> I'm still learning all the abrivs used on the web.:wink:


Don't worry about it, we all have to learn


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Yeah and I'd rather learn sooner than later. lol


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

Oral invetermicin (one dose once a week for three weeks), carefresh, no and yes. But I did clean out my cage thoroughly each time >_<


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Poppyseed said:


> Oral invetermicin (one dose once a week for three weeks), carefresh, no and yes. But I did clean out my cage thoroughly each time >_<


you might have an infested batch of carefresh. Are you able to freeze your bedding for 48 hours to kill them off? Wood and paper products usually need to be thrown out even when using Revolution.

I got my infestation of lice when my mom was sweet enough to send down a bag of really cheap shredded aspen. I used it twice but that was enough *shudder*...Revolution cleared them up so quickly. 

I have never used Ivermectin personally, but I will be getting some topical stuff soon to treat anyone who walks/bounces/popcorns thru the door.  I had given my Revolution to a friend and wasn't prepared for these foster boys and their mite-y itchies.


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## dkirschling (Mar 20, 2007)

I am working through a mite infestation myself. The mites are dead, but I'm having a hard time getting his fur clean. I have bathed him twice, once with baby shampoo and once with dishsoap. His back legs don't work so he's not always able to grpom himself so well. Is there anything else I can do?

D.


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

LoL I just got a rat from a breeder and he has mites mites are contracted in a number of ways you would have to freexe everything you give your rats for 24 hours to be absolutely mite and lice free all of the time my guys are constantly being treated because i hold other peoples rats and they aren't aware of mite or lice it is kind like dogs and fleas if you don't prevent it from happening with EVERY possible thing it's going to happen eventually


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Ok besides the ichy skratchys mites give'em is there anything else mites cuase??


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Mites if it is a bad and long enough infestation (as well as lice) can make your rat anemic. They suck the blood of our pets. 

Itchies, bad temperament resulting, hairloss, etc...mites are nasty.

You will often find that your older rat or immunocompromised rats will show the lice or mites whereas other rats may not, they always attack and manifest on the weakest animal.

Marty one of my foster boys was sickly and the runt as a baby boy. He was the one that manifested the mites most. He also was light, frail and had a terrible coat.

Here he is 3 weeks ago the first night I had him here. All 4 were treated with Revolution.









Here he is after one week









After 2 and a bit weeks, no scabs, gaining weight and filling out, and his coat is quite soft now. Hes much happier and his personality is really blossoming.


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

They are the kind that lay eggs in the hair. I might of gotten an infested batch I don't know, but the poor rats still have the eggs that attach to the hair follicles and maybe 3 weeks wasn't enough to kill them all...


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Poppyseed said:


> They are the kind that lay eggs in the hair. I might of gotten an infested batch I don't know, but the poor rats still have the eggs that attach to the hair follicles and maybe 3 weeks wasn't enough to kill them all...


you had lice. you cannot see mites. you see the nits on the hair shaft. If you treated your rats then those nits will be dead and will have to come off when the hair sheds. You can give them gentle baths or I have heard of some success with a human lice comb.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Aha!! I think it's lice than since I can see the nastys and their eggs.


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

Maybe I got another infected batch then? Last time they seemed to be all over Joshu, who was sick and died after a month (couldn't be treated poor guy. There was nothing I could do as there was a mass in his chest D: ) and now they are getting all over Odin, who only has one eye and has since I got him. I have feeder rats right now as they are my first ratty batch but know to get my rats from adoption centers or breeders next time.

But yeah, I think I did get rid of them the first time, but something just happened with the bedding or perhaps handeling other rats? I am glad I caugt them before he got bad scabs. Last time I couldn't see them and saw his bad wounds and thought the boys were playing too rough. Once I treated them for lice, they healed wonderfully. I know better now.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

if you are able. freeze your bedding for 48 hours to kill off any stowaways.

Why couldn't you treat your other boy? I have treated 4 week old orphans to 28 month old males.


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## dkirschling (Mar 20, 2007)

The OTC stuff I used seemed to kill everything off, plus the maniacal tank cleanings, but I wanted to be sure so I got Revolution from my vet today. I put it on Twenty-Six because he had them so bad. If the mites came from their bedding do I have to be paraniod forever about this happening again?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

dkirschling said:


> The OTC stuff I used seemed to kill everything off, plus the maniacal tank cleanings, but I wanted to be sure so I got Revolution from my vet today. I put it on Twenty-Six because he had them so bad. If the mites came from their bedding do I have to be paraniod forever about this happening again?


ectoparasites you can get from infected bedding (I only got it from a cheap type myself). Its best to freeze if you are able. I am not able...hehe.
It also can be carried home by you handling other rats and then handling your own afterwards, they hitch a ride on you and your clothes. I think lice can last offhost for longer than mites but don't quote me on that.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Can rats get both mites and lice at the same time??

I think so but I'm not sure.....


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

I should think so. You don't hear of it, but its very possible those lice-y rats you take in with their obvious woes and get treated may have an underlying infestation of mites that get taken care of with the treatment. I have noticed as rat owners we never think of multiple illnesses for the symptoms displayed.


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

Ok so i just took my new boy fizzgig to the vet because i knew that he either had mites or lice. So when the vet took the samples i asked to see what it looked like thank god i did because i just called to make appointments for all of my other guys to get treated (he said that it was mites when i first talked to him) they told me it was scabies to me from what i saw on the slide it looked more like tropical rat mites. How do i know if i can trust this vet now? is there a difference? should i be worried about my kids get scabes? it didn't even look like scabes! i am so confused please help me too! thankies in advance


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

*Sigh*

I wish rats didn't get so many problems.....*SIGH*......


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

yeah me too it drives me nuts LoL but at least i am getting better at doing a home diagnosis so i know what to ask the vet when i get there


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Yeah I always know when something's wrong even if it's not vizable.:wink: 

I've had a really strong and sensetive bond with animals since I was a baby.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i didn't know rats could even get scabies. i thought that was a canine bug. though it could be possbile. i know humans can get it from dogs... research it. tropical rat mites and scabies COULD look very much the same or they actually could just be 2 names for the same thing. the vet COULD be right or wrong. it depends on how much experience they have had with rats and really how much you trust them. some are only in it for the money and others care but are busy or distracted and don't do as good a look as they should. then again it could simply be human error. the best bet is to research anything a vet or health care professional of any kind tells you but especailly if you're having doubts. and if you feel that you can't trust the vet look around for another one. eventually you'll find the right match.


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

yeah me too I can always tell with my boys so i do as much research on the web to find out the best treatment for them because most vets don't take classes for small animal care so even if they are seeing them they can't diagnose everything like my vet diagnosing scabes when it is tropical rat mites. It happens and i take the info back to him and all is solved and he is cheap only charges half his normal prices for small animals plus he is really open to my suggestions and if anything has ever been serious i take them to a specialist


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

yeah rats can have scabes i researched all of it already thankies much though and i would also be showing symptoms of it already considering i have snuggled with my ratties every day and night and the first symptoms started about a month ago (not with me with the place i got the from)


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

honestly i think that he may have just labeled it as scabies because it is mites and not lice that way there is no confussion when filing paperwork


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

I hate vets like that they say somthing without a backward glance giving the owner a scare and and Geeerrrrgghhh!!!! 

Anyway I'm thinking of putting Bajha to sleep cuase it looks like she has a tummer on her left side behind her foreleg...

Anyone know a cheap place in Santa cruz CA?


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

that is soooo sad i am sorry sky!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Sky14 said:


> I hate vets like that they say somthing without a backward glance giving the owner a scare and and Geeerrrrgghhh!!!!
> 
> Anyway I'm thinking of putting Bajha to sleep cuase it looks like she has a tummer on her left side behind her foreleg...
> 
> Anyone know a cheap place in Santa cruz CA?


Ummm is Bajha in any discomfort? Is she sickly? Its normal for rats to get mammary tumours but they can live happily with them for quite a while. Is she still eating/drinking/active/happy? If she is, its not time yet.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

She's over a year and a halve and she has lice/mites REALLY bad and she has a bad respetory problem. She's in a little bit of pian that I can see...


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Sky14 said:


> She's over a year and a halve and she has lice/mites REALLY bad and she has a bad respetory problem. She's in a little bit of pian that I can see...


18 months is a normal time for the tumours to show up, the pain and discomfort is probably from the mites/lice and the respiratory. Can you not treat her?
Mammary tumours generally do not hurt. At the very end they may cause problems with mobility (depending on location) and the rat may become anemic from the tumour stealing the blood supply/nutrients from your girl, or the tumour may rub on the ground and become sore and ulcerated. Other than that, they can live a long time with one, unless its an aggressive malignant mass, but the location sounds like a typical tumour.
Treat those lice/mites and respiratory issue and she should feel a lot better.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

I'm really sure it's a aggressive tumour cuase it's HUGE and it showed up only 1-2 months ago... It's bigger than a quarter and about halve a inch thick. 

THAT IS BIG!!!! not small


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

are you sure it isn't an abscess?


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

I'm VERY sure I had rats get abcesses and I could get rid of it but this...this is defferant. 

A abcess feels kinda smooth and pops under pressure but when I feel this it feels like somethings all tangled up inside and it doesn't pop....


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

have you tried putting a hot compress on it the abscess may be starting to compact. I am so sorry that she is not feeling well i know how hard it is to loose these little ones. I hope everything goes well for you and just know that the little paw prints she has left on your heart will never fade!


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

I've tried everything except trying to punkture it.


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## dkirschling (Mar 20, 2007)

Three of my girls have had tumor removal surgery. Their surgeries went great and they are healthy. I am hoping they will not have a recurrance. (sometimes they can get tumors again in a different location) It's expensive, but the sooner it get's done, the cheaper it is. 

Do not try to puncture it!


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## dkirschling (Mar 20, 2007)

Also, the tumors can get much bigger. I've seen photos of rats with tumors almost the size of their bodies. One of my rats had a tumor that was almost .75x1.5in with great success.


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

i wouldn't try puncturing it i would be too afraid of hurting her  i am so sorry try seeing what the vet says maybe he/she will be a bit more helpful with knowing what would be best surgery or sleep


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Definitely not an abscess. Abscesses show up very quickly, usually within a day and often burst on their own, but will recur if the matter inside isn't completely cleaned out before the skin heals on top sealing it back in. Do not try to puncture it.

That tumour is not big at all. A lot of tumours grow to that size and then stop for awhile, then they will grow again in a month or so. My first tumour removal was on a girl who was 25 months old. The tumour weighed 50 grams less than she did. 8O It was my first experience with an exotic vet...my girl was in good shape until the tumour was so heavy that if she fell over she couldn't get back up, and I decided enough was enough. 
I don't have a pic of her pre-tumour removal but you can just imagine it from the incision on Freya's side. This pic was taken her first night.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Poor baby!! how's she doing?

Anyway I can't afford to have surgury I really wish I could but it's just me and my mom. My mom is temperaraly unemployd and we've a bunch off differant family help services and I can't get any work since I'm 15 and EVERYWARE you have to be 16+!! I would do baby sitting but I can't stand little kids (don't ask...it's a long story) and I can't do any other kinda neborehood work becuase I'm in the WORST neborehood junkys drunks you name it's here. I've even been asked If I was a prostitute at only 7Pm with my mom standing next to me!!!! 

Incase you don't know I'm in watsonville CA.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

If you can't properly care for your animals and pay for their vet care, you need to rehome them.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

I CAN care and feed'em I just don't have a extra couple hundred or thousand buck for a vet.

It's ONLY the vet! I allways have enough for food and beding and I've never needed any outside help before. I've had over a hundred rats in my 7-8 years of being a rat owner and I've had only 1 rat get severaly ill and she was a sickly runt to start with.

I've had so many cuase I did a little breeding.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Your rat has lice/mites, a huge tumor, and is in pain. Caring for an animal means taking them to the vet ANY time they need it. She should have been taken to the vet within a week of seeing that tumor, not after two months. Lice/mites are extremely uncomfortable and can be downright painful - they need to be treated.

Rats get tumors. That's fairly common. You should know this by now if you've _properly_ cared for rats for 7-8 years. If you don't like dealing with tumors too much, spay your girls as soon as they're big enough (2-5 months old) - that greatly reduces their chances of getting lumps and tumors. Otherwise, you're looking at lots of tumor removals. You can't just do nothing for her. That's serious negligence and cruelty on your part.  She *NEEDS* to see a vet, and as soon as possible! You're putting her through a lot of unnecessary pain because you didn't care to research or plan ahead.

Obviously you haven't been to a vet in a long, long time, since you can't even accurately quote what it'd cost for an exam, mite treatment, and a tumor removal.

Vet money shouldn't be "extra." It should be factored into your pet expenses.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

....Well why don't you tell me?? Hmm?!?


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

An exam is anywhere between $25-$60.

Mite treatment can be between $10-$40, depending on which route you decide to go.

A lump removal varies more. Considering the fact that the tumor is now extremely large, it is going to cost a lot more now to get it removed. Tumors should be removed as soon as they're spotted, since it's less trauma for the animal, and will cost less. The larger a tumor is allowed to grow, the more blood supply it's taking up and the more complicated/costly the tumor removal becomes. For a small tumor, it's usually around $30-$80. For a larger one, it can be over $100-$200.


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

Instead of putting her to sleep, you should try to find a rescue to take her in and any other rats you have if you can't afford a vet to get rid of the lice/mites D: Especially if you're on that tight of a budget that it's hard for your mom to make ends meet, it's kind of unfair for the family to own rats as well as unfair to the rats who aren't getting the health care >_>

You really shouldn't of breed rats at all if money is that tight D: Money gets tight for me, but I'll eat ramen or do my best to make money SOMEHOW if my babies are sick.


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## JennieLove (Jan 2, 2007)

I just found a small lump on Jay about an hour ago, I'm taking him in tomorrow if I can get a visit, I hope its only about $30-40 to remove, I know its $35 for for the visit; Not bad, Im sure he'll be alright. I'm glad I found it so soon!


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Jennie - where's the lump located and how large is it? Sometimes abscesses look a lot like tumors at first. Tumors usually take a while to grow, while abscesses pop up seemingly overnight.


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## JennieLove (Jan 2, 2007)

Its on the inner thigh of the right back leg. Its really small. Yeah, I never noticed it before. Its not really really hard, just kinda squishy.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Strange place for a tumor  Do your boys have quarrels often? It could be an abscess from a nip/bite.


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## JennieLove (Jan 2, 2007)

They don't fight, but they do weslte around alot. Doing the boy thing I guess. I have noticed that they have been doing VERY rough power grooming...to the point where they are a little bald in some areas. I have noticed a coule nips from that, but no fighting.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Well hopefully tomorrow you'll know what you're dealing with  Vets can tell immediately whether it's a tumor or abscess by doing an aspirate.


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## JennieLove (Jan 2, 2007)

I'm sure he'll be alright.  Thanks so the info, makes me feel alot better lol.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Poppyseed said:


> You really shouldn't of breed rats at all if money is that tight D: Money gets tight for me, but I'll eat ramen or do my best to make money SOMEHOW if my babies are sick.


I did the breeding a few years ago when we had alot of money. No worrys.

And I don't know what vet you'er looking at Night but look at the ones in Santa cruz ca. THEY ARE NOT CHEAP cuase rats are exotics and exotic vets that KNOW what they'er doing are scarce around hear. Do the math and it adds up BIG.

But none of this matters becuase my baby Bajha died last night..... you got that.?! She's DEAD OK so don't you EVER tell me what I should or shouldn't do when I KNEW she was IN PAIN and DIEING.....  ...... GOT IT?!?!!!!! HMMM DO YOU Night?!!! STOP being a know-it-all and use comon sense and compassion....if you have any.....


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear that, sky  RIP Bajha.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

If you want the info visit the bridge...


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

I'm so sorry about your little one Sky :'(


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Thanks.


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

i am soo sorry to hear that sky i hope you feel better soon i know how hard it is to loose these little guys/girls


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## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

Upper Respiratory Infection.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

KayRatz said:


> Upper Respiratory Infection.


Agreed. She should have gone to the vet ages ago. Anytime a rat starts gasping for breath, you need to rush them to the emergency vet.


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

my sam was doing it too but it hit so fast that there was nothing that could be done he died in my arms and it was the most terrible feeling ever sam was fine all day and then just out of the blue he got really sick at like 10:00 at night i don't drive so i couldn't get him to the vet (kids were asleep hubby was at work) i tried to get him to the vets in the morning but as i was speaking to the first vet he died in my arms i cried for like 4 hours untill my hubby came home (he worked over night)


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Oh wow, how terrible! That must have been extremely traumatic for both you and Sam. Situations like that are so emotionally heart-breaking


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

yeah and he was just barely one when it happened a really bad virus of sorts racked through and sam just was doomed jackson survived it and he is still around LoL though he is just kind of a lump right now 2 and all he just sits there i am having him checked on tuesday to see if there is anything wrong (rats hide illness so well)


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## JennieLove (Jan 2, 2007)

I know how it feels to lose a baby in your arms. When Beavis was close, all he wanted to do was be with me. We rush him to the emergency room and all the way there he acted calm as if he was trying to make ME feel better, when we got there he let go and passed away. :'(


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

They had a virus, Stephanie? What were the symptoms?


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

how can u tell if u have mites do they mark your rats?


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Mites are microscopic and usually can't be seen with the naked eye. 

From Ratguide.com:

*In cases where infestation is present may see the following:
# Intense itching with persistent scratching
# Loss of hair, ulcerated skin, abrasions or scabs, that can be seen more commonly on the neck and back of shoulders.

# If flea infestation: may see actual fleas on the rat, or may see and indication of their presence by droppings of digested blood on the ratâ€™s skin, which may appear as particles of dirt.

# If lice infestation: may see light tan, brown, or reddish color â€œdotsâ€ on skin, or the presence of silvery colored nits attached to hair shafts.

# If mites are present: may see a fine bran like substance on the skin and fur. In sarcoptid or sarcoptid-like species crusted red or yellowish lesions may be seen on the auricle or pinna of the ear and on the nose; along with small reddish bumps to tail, genitals, and feet.*

A couple examples of mite/lice infestation can be seen here and here.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

if one rat had fleas/mites would the rats around it also get them? roobs has sum small scabs under his neck but i have been told its from to much grooming he does in fairness have blinkin sharp nails i have scars 2 prove it, the scabs fall off and dont come back there at most was 6 he has no other symtoms tho, my mate who is traing to be a vet says its not mites but if you guys on here think otherwise i will take him 2 the vets as soon as the bank holidays are over


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

My Bajha Rip looked a little like the second pic and got the respiratory infection about a month ago and the mites/lice I noticed at about the same time. I was just about to go get some stuff for the resp infection and bugs this Sat....


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

I'm sorry, I can't keep my mouth shut but she looked that bad for a MONTH and you didn't do anything?

Please if you are going to own rats take care of them A.S.A.P. Invetermicin is dirt cheap, $5, only $5 would or alleviated her of all that suffering (from lice) even if you couldn't afford to take care of the other things. Please save up for the rat you currently have. Just a little from each paycheck is all you need and it does add up fast to make a nice safety net.


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

The sypmtoms were much like a myco flare up but it affected four of my rats all at once i am not really sure what it was but they all went the same way one day they were fine the next they were gone or dying there was no porphrin though just really bad breathing and lethargic some dihrea (spelling) and back leg parlysis all in a matter of hours it was terrible i tried everything even oxygen treatments (caught one in time to go to the vets) and nothing helped i couldn't afford an autopsy to be done so i just dealt with it the best way i could antibiotics for everyone else and lots of love for the ones that were passing it was horrible


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

Sorry for your loss Steph D:


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

thanks poppy it was bad but at least it was quick for them sam suffered the longest for about 10 hours i tried everything i could do at home (sat in the bathroom with him with the hot water running) eventually i just wrapped him up in a towel his feet were blue and he was sooo cold and sat on the couch the whole night praying he would get better or hold out untill my hubby got home (**** him for having to work over time that day) it was sad cause at the end he kind of flipped out of my hands and when i picked him up he took his last breath and passed in my arms some stupid telemarketer was trying to call me i had just answered the phone and told the person on the other side exactly what they could do with what they were trying to sell me


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

lilspaz68 said:


> if you are able. freeze your bedding for 48 hours to kill off any stowaways.
> 
> Why couldn't you treat your other boy? I have treated 4 week old orphans to 28 month old males.


ah, just saw this lilspaz! It wasn't the lice that couldn't be treated, it was the respitory thing he had. We tried antibiotics and tried diurectics and the vet tried everything. She took an x-ray to find a mass in his chest, so close to his vitals it couldn't be removed (And never doing such a surgery close to the vitals on a very sick rat she recomended against it). A couple days later he passed on.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Stephanie, it sounds like your rats either had SDA or Sendai (those two articles are really great, so make sure to read through them!). Did you bring home a new rat around the time your other rats became sick? Or did you go to a pet store and then came right home?

Another fantastic article to read is about proper quarantine. Airborne viruses such as SDA and Sendai are fast killers if not caught early enough, and can get extremely expensive to care for considering all the medication and vet care.


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

no there was no new rats tweakers got it first then sam then butters then scoots i will read and save and probably print those out for future reference thankyou sooo much night. Jackson was the only one that survived it he got the sniffles a little bit but he fought and he fought hard he is still with us though his health is declining but he is two and he is going to the vet on tuesday. Butters was WAY to small when i first got him he was a rescue that didn't go well. thanks again night


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Poppyseed said:


> I'm sorry, I can't keep my mouth shut but she looked that bad for a MONTH and you didn't do anything?


Nooooo. She looked like that for the last few days.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Even letting her go for a DAY like that is bad  Poor thing probably could have been saved.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

are there any treatments for mites with out goin 2 the vets? if not i will take him but im not convinced its mites


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

is this mites? i was told it was over grooming


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

all of my guys that have had mites it has always been on their backs and butts never on thier chins like that


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

its only on his chin but i am takin him 2 the vets as soon as they open after the holidays


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Night said:


> Even letting her go for a DAY like that is bad  Poor thing probably could have been saved.


As I said earlyer I was going to get some stuff this weekend when I got my alowince.!! *Snort* Unempathitic non'understanding blind......Geeeeaarrrrr....


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

dang sky i bet you never thought you would get a 7page post lol. 
I talked to mom about the post and she said: 
The larvae of the fur mite are small enough that they can hide in the hair follicles where they are protected against topical pesticides. Theoretically, if you apply a mite spray once a week for long enough, it should be able to eventually kill all the mites, but in practice this doesnâ€™t seem to work very well. Plus rats hate the spray! 

You must treat all of your rats, since if one rat has fur mites they probably all do, even if they donâ€™t all have scabs. 

The treatments recommended for fur mites is Revolution (selamectin) which you can buy from your vet (with a prescription) or from a Canadian online pharmacy at www.canadavet.com. They ship to the U.S. In the UK or Australia you can order it from www.pets-megastore.com.au or 1-866-270-2303.

Revolution is a spot-on product, a liquid that is applied to the skin on the shoulders. After application, you need to distract your rats so they donâ€™t scratch off and eat the liquid, or lick it off of each other. The liquid will dry in about 5 minutes. Only one dose is needed.

Revolution comes in tiny tubes of different sizes for different size cats or dogs. Packages of Revolution come with either 3 or 6 tubes of liquid. (If your vet treats a lot of small animals, he or she might be willing to split a package and sell individual tubes.)

Each tube costs about the same amount no matter how much Revolution it contains, so you want to figure out which tube will treat all your rats. To figure out what package to buy you will need to weigh each of your rats, total the number of pounds and multiply that by the dose (6 mg/lb). That will tell you the total number of milligrams of Revolution needed to dose all your rats. 
Hereâ€™s a summary of all the packages of Revolution we found:

color size of pet total mg concentration

mauve up to 5 lbs 12 60 mg/ml

blue 5.1-15 lb (cat) 45 60 mg/ml

purple 5.1 10 lb 30 120 mg/ml

brown 10.1-20 lb 60 120 mg/ml

red 20.1-40 lb 120 120 mg/ml

teal (green) 40.1-85 lb 240 120 mg/ml

plum 85.1-130 lb 120 + 240 120 mg/ml



The dose for the tubes that contain 60 mg/lb is 0.1 ml/lb (10 units/lb). The dose for the tubes that contain 120 mg/ml is 0.05 ml/lb (5 units/lb.)

The amount of liquid needed per dose is quite small, and is best measured using an insulin syringe with the needle (or the whole top) broken off. Insert the syringe into the tube slowly as it will easily overflow. Once a tube is opened, it must be used within a few hours. 

Another treatment you can try for fur mites is ivermectin. However, most fur mites are now resistant to it. It might help for a while, but the problem usually comes back. It needs to be repeated once a week for at least 6-12 weeks. Since the ivermectin may not work for the mites, I do not recommend paying a lot of money for treatment.

Revolution also works for tropical rat mites. Ivermectin does not. If You have carpets in your house you'll want to spray or bomb the carpets to be sure all mites are gone. 

(mom found out some of this online, I'm looking for the site.i compied this off a note book mom has and from some verbalinstruction)


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Wow... Thanks Naz.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

naz b very cleaver n im stealin her babies


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

nope nope I'm staying awak forever! lol go steal Jerrica lol.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

What's all this about steal'en??


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

lol me and Fallin have an on going joke on msn.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

*cocks eyebrow*


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

Sky14 said:


> Night said:
> 
> 
> > Even letting her go for a DAY like that is bad  Poor thing probably could have been saved.
> ...


Oh, we empathize... With the rat.


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

*nods head* i agree with Jules COMPLETELY! (sorry about the caps)


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

*Sighs deeply* 

Must we dwel on the past?

I'm doing EVERYTHING I can! If all of you are so **** set on me taking the to a vet why don't YOU pay since I CAN NOT afford to?


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## tungstenrat (Mar 13, 2007)

Sky - Sick babies are always a source of worry. I feel bad about your situation and I'll take your advice about not dwelling on the past. Perhaps prevention is preferable to cure and, while it's a cheaper option, it may not always be possible. I've outlined my method for dealing with mites earlier in this post (first page I think) and it's worked for me. I'm not sure if it will be as effective for you but it couldn't hurt, right? If you can spare about $6 then you're on your way to a happier and more comfortable habitat for your babies. Get a spray bottle of mite and lice spray for parrots. This has about the recommended amount of pyrethrins in it to get rid of any nasties and sparing your babies from any secondary problems. Just don't get it in their eyes. Spray everything: before you get them out of the cage, spray where they'll be running around, change all the bedding and spray everything in the cage, spray the bedding, toys, hidey holes, hammocks ... you get the picture. You don't have to spray everything until it's soaked, just enough to cover. Once done, reward your babies and allow the spray to work it's magic in the cage. Give it about half an hour or so. This should take care of things for a while, and to make sure, do the whole thing again 2 weeks later. This is a very inexpensive and, for me at any rate, effective way of controlling mites and other parasites. Pyrethrin powder is used as an anti-flea/ant/insect product and it is rendered from plants, as far as I know. So, it's fairly natural.

I don't doubt that you want the best for your babies and I'm sure you do everything that you can for them. Sometimes we're faced with something that we know nothing about or are in a position where we are not able to fully rectify a problem. Take heart as there are many of us in a similar situation. We do the best we can with what we've got. Please bear in mind and ask questions about preventing a problem rather than curing one. It's generally cheaper and the peace of mind you get is worth more than anything.

Okay, enough rambling out of me. I'm no expert but I hope the advice I offer is useful to someone.


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

upper respitory infection sky


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

hahaha i completely missed the second page when i posted all that LOL ignore my last post i am beyond exhausted LoL


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

ive done the email template and given you adresses to send it to its in the rainbow bridge post so with any luck your rats should be fixed up soon after you send those emails


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

Nazarath said:


> nope nope I'm staying awak forever! lol go steal Jerrica lol.


ive told u i have renamed jerrica lola so i can sing to her and . . . u have to sleep some time mwahhaha all i gotta do i surch all ov usa 2 find u lol and ship the rats bk home c i got it all worked out


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

Sky14 said:


> *Sighs deeply*
> 
> Must we dwel on the past?
> 
> I'm doing EVERYTHING I can! If all of you are so **** set on me taking the to a vet why don't YOU pay since I CAN NOT afford to?


You killed your rat through negligence only a week ago. I'd hardly call that rehashing ancient history. 

No, you are the owner, and it is your responsibility to provide vet care. If you can't afford the vet, then you shouldn't have the pet. It is that simple. There are even laws in place that take animals away from people who can't afford to take their pets to the vet. Unfortunately our rats don't fall under the list of animals protected under law, otherwise I'm sure quite a few people on this board would have reported you to animal control already.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

JulesMichy said:


> If you can't afford the vet, then you shouldn't have the pet.


This might be off point but you might as well tell PEOPLE not to have a kid just becuase the can't take him/her to see a doctor about something or other.

And my remaining 4 ratsys aren't showing signs of sickness AND I KNOW that that doesn't mean jack sh** but it does mean that they MIGHT not be sick at all.

READ *EVERYTHING* BEFORE YOU START NAGGING ON ME AGAIN. OK?


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## Sara_C (Mar 10, 2007)

> This might be off point but you might as well tell PEOPLE not to have a kid just becuase the can't take him/her to see a doctor about something or other.


People _do_ tell people not to have children if they can't afford to look after them! And people will generally not choose to have children if they know theyr circumstances aren't right, and that they wouldn't be able to afford medical treatment for them. It's exactly the same with your rats. If you know what kind of situation you're in with money then taking on animals that you knew you wouldn't be able to afford treatment for is very selfish. 

I'm not saying you shouldn't be priveliaged enough to have pets, it's a joy that everyone should be allowed, but you might have wanted to make sure you had something worked out for when your rats get sick. A savings account, list of local charities that would offer free treatment?


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

Sky14 said:


> This might be off point but you might as well tell PEOPLE not to have a kid just becuase the can't take him/her to see a doctor about something or other.


Um, yeah. Pretty much. If you can't fully care for another life, then you shouldn't be responsible for one. That applies to people as well as pets.


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

*Sighs very deeply*

...Please stop nagging on me...I'm doing everything I can.

Kay?


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## Sara_C (Mar 10, 2007)

We're not nagging, but it's hard not to get angry when you come out with stupid, immature statements like that.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

roobs is gunna hate me  my vets is now open as the holidays are over and ive made an appointment 4 him at half 6 2 nyt and hes not gunna like it  im gunna have 2 spoil him so he dont hate me so much after lol does any one elses rats hate the vets ?


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

ive not taken my rats yet but my dog used to (literally) dig her heels in so we had to carry her in!


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

well roobs has mites and a secondry skin infection! the vet sed all rats have mites but they dont show until the immune system gets low! hes had an injection and has antibiotics. me skin is shreded by his claws now and he didnt bite which shows hes behaving more !


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

is it possible to eredicte mites? I used pesticide on my two when i got them.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

hes has had an injection and will have another next week he is on antibiotics and has bacterial shampoo which i have 2 wash him in every 5 days for a while


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

......Wow......good luck.

My girls all HATE getting in water.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

so do my boys i gotta give them all their baths to night worst thing is i gotta leave the shampoo on for 10 mins!


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## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Oohhff ..... 8O I can empathize on how much fun your going to have.... good luck to you and your babys.


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