# Are soy and dried corn good or bad for rats?



## Wow (Mar 26, 2014)

I need help from experts on our forum since I've searched and searched the internet only to find conflicting opinions. First of all the soy. My rats love soy milk, so I give it to them regularly. I've heard some rat owners objected to some commercial rat foods on the basis that these foods contain soy, which is so harmful it even reduces the life span of rats. While others suggested that soy is very beneficial to rats. It helps prevent tumor, etc. So which of these suggestions are valid? Should I keep giving my rats soy milk? Another issue is dried corn. I've been trying to supplement the Oxbow pallets with seeds and grains. The only seeds and grains I can give my rats are seeds/grains mixture for rodents, because the seeds that are packaged for human consumption (like sunflower and pumpkin seeds) are heavily salted. (I'm in Bangkok, there's no health food store). I know that dried corn can contain mold, and so it is bad for rats to eat. But recently I've bought F.M. Brown's "Tropical Carnival mixture for mice and rats", and it looks like clean and well packaged. In this case should I still be worried about dried corn contained in the mixture? There are only a few brands I can order because most of them won't ship to Thailand, so if I can feel confident that this food is safe, that would be great. Thank you very much. I hope to hear from you soon,


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## Finnebon (Jul 15, 2013)

I can't speak for soy. I would like to know more about it also.

But for corn, I know the consensus is that it's pretty bad and is linked to (I think) either kidney or liver problems. I would definitely avoid the dried corn. 

Adult rat Oxbow kibbles are a complete nutrition diet and don't need to be supplemented. To add other things might throw off the nutritional balance of their diet and probably isn't a good idea, and definitely isn't necessary. If you want to feed them something different so they don't have to eat plain boring oxbow kibbles everyday, you can always give them healthy treats everyday with healthy rat-safe fruits and veggies. I often give my rats a "salad" with various fresh veggies and they love it. Just be sure to give them only a small ammount at first because the introduction of fresh foods can sometimes cause diarrhea and upset tummies. Once you give them a little bit of new things and they don't have squishy smelly poops, you can add a little bit more.


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## Wow (Mar 26, 2014)

Thank you so much for taking the time to share with me this information. I'll take away the grains/seeds mixture immediately.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Finnebon already addressed supplementing Oxbow and is correct.

Corn also carries a pretty high risk of a deadly mold, so it's best to be avoided. Also avoid those mixes that have alfalfa in them, as rats can't digest it and often times will ignore it. Look up shubees home mix if you would like to make a special, nutritionally complete dinner.

As to Soy, the answer is both are correct. Too much soy can cause cancers, but a certain amount can reduce the chance of it. If you're feeding Oxbow, you probably have enough soy already. Maybe every other week you could offer soy milk, or use soy milk to create a nice porridge for them.


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## Wow (Mar 26, 2014)

Thanks, both of you. I'll follow your suggestions.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

with corn it depends how it is processed. In some animal foods where it is pretty much whole kernals or chopped up kernals these have been dried in a way that allows mold growth. If the Mold grows it is toxic and can be be fatal in extreme cases. however if corn is micronised which is effectively squashing and cooking the corn it is safe. These look like flakes and are sometimes called flaked corn or micronised corn on the ingredients. human grade whole corn (sold as popping corn) is also sage add it has been dried in a more controlled manner. If it's good quality corn it is actually a fairly useful ingredient as it's low fat. I wouldn't want it high up on the ingredients list but I am happy to use micronised corn in my own mix as a part of the base. I also use human corn flake cereal as part of my mix to. as with anything variety is the key. You rely on one ingredient to much and it carries risks. You feed a balanced mixture and the rats get the benefits. 

The same is true of soda. experiments have shown both nbenefits in helping reduce the occurrence of some cancers and risks of increasing incidents of other types. fed as a part of an overall balanced mix its a very good source of protien which is one of the kindest on the kidneys. I use it alongside fish dog kibble and dried shrimps as my protien element in my mix. I wouldn't feed it in high quantities bit the soya milk you feed and the elements of soya in oxbow will not cause issues in your rats. I've seen far more issues with low quality meats such as poultry meal which is about as bad as it gets. 

It's important to not take everything you read on the Internet that is extreme to heart. Often there is more to it than is obvious. In most cases to much of one thing could be bad so you need to investigate how much is to much. for instance garlic is great for rats and people. too much however and it's actually toxic. I wouldn't feed a rat more than one raw clove on that basis but the rats would miss out on its benefits of I lived in Germany say where they ate convinced it is dangerous. It's the same worth wheels in Sweden, in the majority of rat fancy homes they believe they will cause spinal damage and don't appreciate the health benefits that can also come with them such as extended life span.


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## Wow (Mar 26, 2014)

Thanks Isamurat, for your expert advice. How very kind of you. So nice to have knowledgable people to guide a newbie.


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## veimar (Feb 19, 2014)

All the corn produced in US is GMO, and there were several studies (sorry, I don't have the links right now) that showed that GMO is really bad for rats. That's why I stay pretty low on Oxbow that is a GMO corn based product. I give them organic oatmeal, buckwheat, sesame seeds and flax (plus a few drops of olive oil), and all sorts of foods we eat ourselves, especially fresh veggies and fruit (no junk foods of course!) My rats really love fresh and cooked veggies. If I gave them to choose between a cookie and carrot they would definitely choose a carrot.  Preparing your own diet is a bit time consuming, but I prefer them to eat healthy as I do myself. I don't believe they really need Oxbow that much because rats should eat stuff similar to what humans eat, and we don't eat pellets.  My rats actually hate Oxbow, and always leave it in the bowl. I give them Oxbow alone only when I have extremely busy days and have no time to make their "porridge" and "salads".  But I'm not a real rat expert - just done quite a bit of research.


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## veimar (Feb 19, 2014)

BTW, Isamurat, how are you feeding garlic to your rats?!?! Mine cannot stand even the smell of it.  When one of them started hiccuping for a few days I forced him to sniff garlic for about 20 min ( he was sitting in my sleeve with his nose out and I put a clove of garlic to his nose, LOL) but he hated it and would NEVER eat it. I really wish I could feed them garlic, because even after sniffing it his hiccuping was gone (I gave him a bit of echinacea as well), so I guess it's very healthy.


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## Wow (Mar 26, 2014)

Thanks, Veimar. I'm giving my boys salad today after reading your comment, and will give them more fresh human food every chance I get. Nice to share my love for rats with people who understand.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

veimar said:


> BTW, Isamurat, how are you feeding garlic to your rats?!?! Mine cannot stand even the smell of it.  When one of them started hiccuping for a few days I forced him to sniff garlic for about 20 min ( he was sitting in my sleeve with his nose out and I put a clove of garlic to his nose, LOL) but he hated it and would NEVER eat it. I really wish I could feed them garlic, because even after sniffing it his hiccuping was gone (I gave him a bit of echinacea as well), so I guess it's very healthy.


Theres a few ways that make it more palitable, if you want its immune system boosting properties you need to either feed it raw (mine wont touch that either) or chop/grate it and let it rest for 1 min (the rest is important) then lightly microwarve for a few secs, this helps make it less sharp. If you just want the antiparasitic or heart benefits then feeding it in either a powder or a dried chip form (sold in either animal or asian supermarket shops here) which can be added to a mix. I also occasionally add a bit of lazy garlic (either chopped or paste from a tin) to there wet meals. 

I would be careful about making your own human based mix to go alogside oxbow, espcailly if they dont eat much of the pellets. It can be done (i feed my own balanced mix) but you need to make sure your meeting all there nutiritonal needs. Ignore this if you've gone through and worked that bit out, but if not i can help you tweak it a bit if needs be


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Probably should add that whilst we don’t see a lot of GMO here in the UK (I think our laws are tougher) I have read mixed things on it, however I think its important to remember that a lot of what you read on it is tinged with a nautral fear of the unknown and what is perceived as unnatural Make sure when your making your mind up that you look at actual scientific studies and not reports on health food sites or the manufacturers, I honestly doubt a small amount as part of a mix is going to cause any life limiting issues (just being overweight is probably far more dangerous) if you have few better options Honestly I tend to be a lot more wary of wheat as I’ve seen the impact of high wheat foods on older rats and the difference switching them onto a kidney friendly mix makes, and yet often people recommend wheat as an alternative to corn (really rice and barley are better than both of those).


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