# thinking of getting a rat...



## StickyTurtle (Jul 19, 2008)

hey y'all, i am new to rats but not new to small pets. i've had a ferret, a hamster and a few mice in the past.

i am a soon-to-be college student that will be carting down an aquatic turtle, a box turtle and a small fire bellied newt. None of these animals have the furry compassion that i am looking for although i love all of them in their own, unique ways (my turtles are very independent and hate being held, same goes for the newt).

i have thought about getting a pair of rats for a couple of years now, but my parents have stopped me due to the fact that my mom really doesn't like their tails.

i have read up on rats for a while and i have decided that i want to adopt some and so i have a few questions.

what would be an ideal set up for someone living in a 16X13 foot room (i have a full bed, a desk, chest of drawers and will have a 50 gallon tank and a large under-the-bed rubbermaid to house my box turtle)?
why do rats do better in pairs and how detremental to their mental well being would it be to just get one?
any idea where i could adopt one if i'm living in gainesville, florida? (do people consider shipping rats?)
i will be a full time student, but as it is i rarely go out for a 'night on the town' and would much rather spend time at home with a few pets. is a rat right for me?
how much does it cost to upkeep a rat?
can rats slide through small openings like mice?
could i get a leash for my rat so he can roam my room safely?
my room mate has a corn snake, will this pose a problem?

also, opinions on why i should not get a rat would be greatly appreciated. i want to know all of the aspects!

i'm sure i have more questions, i just can't think of them

thanks!


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

Lots of questions, but here it gos....

Well the ideal setup for you and the ideal setup for a rat are probably 2 different things! Rats need a minimum of 2 cubic feet per rat, 2.5 for boys in order to be happy. Cages made for ferrets are best for rat cages because they allow room for the rats. 

Rats are just as social as humans, would you want to live your life alone only being taken out of your cage 1 hour a day? They get depressed, they aren't happy, some get aggressive living alone (which I don't blame them), and they need a friend for the times you aren't around. Some people say "well I play with them all day long" yeah well what about when your asleep? Rats need friends, not want friends. 

Where to get a rat, try petfinder to see if there are any rescues near you. If so that would be a good place to start. The second pick would be from a reputable breeder (note not backyard breeder!!). Petstores and backyard breeders don't make for good pets. If someone is willing to ship their rats, you don't wan them trust me! Would you ship a dog? Probably not, it's inhumane! 

Rats need a minimum of 1 hour outside the cage in a rat proofed environment daily. They need their cage thoroughly cleaned out once a week and at least 2 times a week you should wipe it down and clean the litter out. Do you have time for this? Leaving them in the cage for a few days on end because your busy with your life isn't an option. They NEED their free range time! 

Purchasing a few rats should cost about $20ish depending on where you get them. The cage will be around $50-$100 for a decent cage. Lab blocks can be ordered online for cheap and suebees mix can be purchased at the grocery store for cheap also. My 4 rats cost about $3 a month to feed. The kicker though... vet bills!! You will need about $200 put away just in case of emergencies. You won't have time to get money around if someone gets a upper respiratory infection, they can die from these in less than 24 hours from the sign of their first symptom. Then their is abscess care, tumor removal, ect. if you should be to lucky to get a rat who encounters these problems. You will NEED to find a vet that knows their stuff about rats BEFORE purchasing rats. You need to find one before you buy one. If you get a pet store rat, a rescue rat, ect. they could come to you with a URI... 

Rats can slide through small spots, if they can get their eyes through a space the rest of them will follow! Full grown males can get through a 1/5in opening, smaller females and rats under 8months old can fit through something a tiny bit bigger than a quarter. 

Rats don't like leashes. If your room isn't rat proofed you will have to make it that way or don't get rats. Rats explore, they will get into things, they will find things you never knew would be a problem of them getting into it.

The snake won't pose a problem unless the snake can get into the rat cage through the bars or if the snake can get out when the rats are free ranging. Snakes WILL get out no matter how much you think you have it "snake proofed" so you need to make sure the rats are protected in their cage in case the snake gets out. 

Does your roommate or you mind noise at night? Rats are nocturnal and are loud at night!


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## StickyTurtle (Jul 19, 2008)

well thank you very much for the honesty!

i understand the need to have a good vet and a good habitat (most people think turtles are cheap and easy to take care of... they are wrong!) and i will def. have to look into this more before i think to make my descision.
i personally don't mind noise at night and my room mate and i will be in seperate rooms (its an apartment, we have private bedrooms)

what is the best way to "rat proof" a room and what materials are needed?

also, i am the type of person that likes to have an animal chill with them while doing daily actvities (as i write this i have a snake exploring my desk at work) so letting my rat out on a daily basis to play and run will not be a problem on any grounds.


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## Randi (May 25, 2008)

Just make sure that you get anything that you wouldn't want chewed up out of the way... you could always make one specific spot for them to free range and put some sort of a fence or baby gate up so they stay in that spot (but you'd have to watch that they don't climb out, haha). Some people corner off a certain part of a room using cardboard, or even a kiddie pool... also it depends on how much room you have. Mainly just keep everything out of their reach so they don't chew on it, and don't let them near any poisonous plants. Another thing you could do is wrap PVC pipe around any exposed wires so they don't chew.


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## Marysmuse (Apr 28, 2008)

How big is the corn snake? I'd be a bit more concerned with the rat getting at the snake- most corns are pretty small, and a rat will kill it if it encounters a snake on its travels.

Other than that, I think you've been given pretty good advice. Keep in mind, they do require a fair amount of work, so you'll want to balance that against how much time you have to commit to college-level studies.

Best of luck!
Rejoicing in the day,
-Mary


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

I've got pipe around wires in my house, lamps are all weighted because my rats will pull them down trying to climb them, anything you don't want chewed needs to be put up (especially tissue boxes if your my rats!!) no holes in the walls, floors, ect. that they can slip through and get lost. My friends bathroom under her sink there is a small hole where the pipe comes through, one of my rats could get in there in a heartbeat! Letting the snake roam a desk is fine, but letting your rats out after a snake was there will make for bad play times! The desk will smell like a predator and that's enough to make them freak out for weeks on end! Rat proofing isn't a huge issue once your rats are bonded to you because 99% of the time your rats will know their names and will come to you when they are called, but until that happens they could disappear on you in a heartbeat! It's no fun looking for a lost rat in your house, your scared to open doors, question if they could have gotten under a certain door and out of that room, ect. My rats start free ranging on a bed, then they move to the bathroom, once they are bonded to me and know their names they get free range for the most part. They climb up on the couch, back down (we put up a ladder) run around under the entertainment center, through the kids toys, ect. but always come back when free range is over with.


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## StickyTurtle (Jul 19, 2008)

oh no no no! i think you misunderstood, haha. the snake is at the nature center where i work! i'm not at college yet. that snake will be staying in SC while i'm in FL.
as far as i know, my roomate's corn snake will stay in her room and my rats will stay in mine.
wow, rats can learn to come to their names? now, i am not a very patient person (i'm hoping a rat could teach me patience, some how, haha) how long does it take to "train" a rat to come to its name?

now i have a question, do rats like those balls that hamsters roll in? i know my hamster and my mice loved them.

i am commited to the amount of work a pair of rats take. i am studying zoology and will need to be mucking out all of the animals habitats anyway, so i am used to the work and have come to enjoy it (weird, huh?)

which is better? boys or girls if i want a pretty laid back pair.


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## Randi (May 25, 2008)

The balls, IMO, are horrible. The rat would be so much happier feeling the floor beneath their feet and exploring, smelling the fresh air... not running in one of those silly little balls.

If you want laid back ratties, definitely go with boys. Girls are pretty high-strung most of the time, but boys tend to be big squish cuddly love bugs.


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## Kathleen (Jul 1, 2008)

Good for you for doing your research first.  A lot of people think rats are cheap, easy pets. They're a joy but they definitely take some money and their proper care can be complicated compared to, say, a hamster.

I think most of your questions were answered. But I thought I'd add something. I took my rats (I had two hairless girls at the time) to my apartment with me last year for my senior year of college. I thought I would have time to spend with them and that keeping two rats in a fairly well-sized apartment would be golden and that I'd have all kinds of time to hang out with them (in particular, I thought that they could hang out on my shoulders while I slaved away over essays).

Well, I was wrong. I was busy studying (as it turned out, the girls had zero interest in staying put with me), working and having a social life. I spent time with my girls but I will admit it wasn't enough (one hour is the bare minimum and I strongly believe rats should get much more time than that outside of their cage). Also, their cage posed a _huge_ problem for me. It was impossible to clean (it was covered in hardware cloth because the girls were small. I _hate_ that stuff! I ripped so many pieces of clothing and flesh on it) and it stunk up my bedroom pretty fast. Ugh.

Funny part about that is I'm using the exact cage with my boys presently but I made some modifications that improved it 1000%. It doesn't hurt that my boys are litter trained where my girls definitely were not and that I took all the hardware cloth off it. But that, as they say, is neither here nor there.

My ball python, on the other hand, was the perfect pet for a busy college student... lol...

Anyway, I'm not saying you'd be the same as me but I thought it would be some food for thought... something you should consider. I've graduated now and I'm currently looking for a job, so I have... a lot of time to spend with my furballs.  Even when I find a job, I'll still have plenty of time to hang out with them now that school, studying and writing essays is over. School can easily become all-consuming, not to mention other priorities.

On the note of coming to enjoy cleaning cages... I'm the same way. LOL. *high fives* I think cleaning and tidying my pets' habitats is a huge part of ownership; I feel very accomplished when I know my animals are living in healthy, happy homes.


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

Rats are faaar too intelligent for those exercise balls, they just don't get enough stimulation. They do like to sleep in them, though. I've had three fat boys cram themselves into a hamster-sized one before...quite a sight! :lol:


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## Randi (May 25, 2008)

Yes, they do make a great bed!


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## StickyTurtle (Jul 19, 2008)

well thank you to everyone who responded. i will def. need to do some more research before i consider this further, because i do want to give these babies the best life possible but if i can't care for them the way i want i don't think i should get one just yet.
lets just say i'll hang around the forum viewing topics and once i get settled into school i'll figure out what to do. 

thanks Kathleen, your answer made me think about how much school work i'll have to be doing! ugh


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## Kathleen (Jul 1, 2008)

Sorry about that, haha. This fall is going to be a mind job for me. After... seventeen years of school, I can't even imagine what it's going to feel like to be free (I haven't counted this summer because, well, everybody's off school for the summer)...

*sliiides back onto topic* Settling into your schedule at school prior to deciding about rats = very good call.  And if you decide you don't have time while you're in school, there's always plenty of time later!


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## StickyTurtle (Jul 19, 2008)

A few more very *n00b* questions.

Why do i need to take my rat out at least an hour a day? how is this benfitical to their health and if i make thier cage elaborate enough won't they be happy? (not saying i'm going to do this! just wondering why)

i have a feeling that if i get two rats i will probably favor one over the other. did any one else have a problem with this? if this occurs, would it be a good idea to get one who loves to be held and social and one that prefers to be left to its own devices?

i don't understand why a ferret cage would be good. dont they have large bars to allow the rats to get through?

if i could rat proof it could my bathroom be its cage or free range area?


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

StickyTurtle said:


> A few more very *n00b* questions.
> 
> Why do i need to take my rat out at least an hour a day? how is this benfitical to their health and if i make thier cage elaborate enough won't they be happy? (not saying i'm going to do this! just wondering why)
> 
> ...


Rats love to come out their cage. As soon as I walk past they're jumping up to come out and the exercise is good for them, plus they bond very well with their owner. 

I don't know how you would plan on knowing which one would love to be held and which didn't when you got them. Both my boys are totally different. Max loves cuddles and will sit on me for ages. Spike is a bit more fidgety, but will sit for a very short time. 

Ferret cages are good as rats need a lot of space. I think most of the bars on the cages are fine once they're a bit older? Some people use that hardware cloth, but some have said it makes it a pain to clean.


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

Ferret cages, in general, have the space that rats need versus the 1ftx2ft cages advertised as "Prefect for your new pet rat!" :roll:

As far as favoring goes...it's gonna happen. :lol: Just be sure to give each rat the attention it needs and deserves.


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## Kathleen (Jul 1, 2008)

As for why you have to take them out for a few hours each day... well, even if your bedroom is tricked out with a fridge, a bathroom, a few "toys," etc. -- basically, even if it had everything you'll ever "need" -- you'd still want to get out of it sometimes, right? The same goes for a rat. They're very intelligent and need to be stimulated. They also need some exercise. 

By the way, providing free range time doesn't have to be super elaborate and you don't necessarily have to take a huge chunk out of your day to sit and watch your rats. Last night, I wanted to watch a movie (oh, how I love you, Red Box) so I just stretched out on my bed and let my boys run around/over/through(?... they like to tunnel in my sweatshirt) me. It worked out pretty well and they got over two hours' worth of playtime.

I think a bathroom could be a good place to play with rats, provided you get any soaps and cleaners out of their reach.


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## StickyTurtle (Jul 19, 2008)

so your rats just chilled around you while you watched your movie? i'd love something like that. i especcially would love the company when i am studying.
i guess the problem i'm having with them running free is that i am stuck in a mindset where when an animal is let out of the cage it should not be allowed to run around (instilled in me at an early age when i had my hamster). i would constantly worry that they could get into something that could potentially harm them despite the fact that i would have rat proofed my room. 

ideally, i'd love a rat that could just hang out and chill with me when i was doing random things like watching tv, walking around the house, studying or hanging out in my room. is that possible?


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## Kathleen (Jul 1, 2008)

Yes.  My boys will stay on my bed without any interest in climbing up/down/away/wherever. They are all too happy to hang out with me. Since they're young, they're usually moving around and exploring (I make a point of ruffling the comforter so it's like a cave system and putting pillows against the wall for them to tunnel behind, etc.). But occasionally they'll curl up in my shirt or my hood or even under the crook of my arm and just chill with me for a bit.

While I'm with them like this, I'm always aware of them (I can feel them because they make a point of running on or against me about every two minutes... and when they don't, I just poke around until I feel a little fuzz ball) but find it easy enough to focus on whatever else I'm doing. It might take some time and practice for you to ease into it -- especially if you're instinctively wary about letting animals range freely -- but it's definitely doable.  Rat-proofing your surroundings will make you a lot more comfortable.

And speaking of comfortable, did I mention that having little rat feet running up and down your back can feel pretty good? Free massage!

I think if you do end up getting rats, I'd recommend males for you. All rats are different and have their own personalities, just like people, but boys are more liable to be cuddly, lazy and generally willing to just hang out with you. I can easily walk around the house with a boy on my shoulder, in a pocket or tucked into my hoodie for a free ride. The girls I once had were never in one place for long, so... that would just be my personal recommendation.


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## StickyTurtle (Jul 19, 2008)

males it is then. although i don't really like their boy-parts but i guess i will get used to it.

i'm on other forums on the internet and i brought my question up in one of them. its not a rat forum, but people have had experiences. one member said the following:
"well, i know that I got one b/c the pet store I got it from said that he would be more social and trainable if he was the only one. he was VERY social, so I would say he would have gotten lonely if I hadn't played with him a lot, but I did work full-time and he seemed to do fine and be very, very happy. I did always give him something to do. They LOVE to rip stuff up and make a bed out of it, so sometimes if I had plans in the evening, I would put a half a soda box (u know like a 12-pack) in there and he stayed busy busy and by the time I got home he had it all ripped into little bitty pieces and made a little bed out of it...lol. it was so cute. I always gave him lots of chew stuff and also if I went out to dinner I'd bring him back a crunchy treat and he always LOVED waiting to see what I brought him. lol. he did like to ride on my shoulder so even if I was home and just doing whatever, he was happy sitting on my shoulder while I walked around cleaning house or whatever, so that was an easy way to entertain him too. he slept a lot while I was at work too, so that was good. he was real active in the evening so I think his "night" was mostly when I was at work too since they are nocturnal. 

He was kinda like a dog in that he was really happy to see me and wanted to hang out with me...lol! 

Man, you would prob need a huge tank for two of them. Do the people on the forum say they ever fight? I'd hate to see that b/c they have some sharp teeth!"

how unhappy was her rat that there was only one?

is there a difference in temperment/heathliness between the petstore rats and feeder rats?


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## geebus (Jun 23, 2008)

Cute.... in the awkward sense - but cute all the same!


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

Rats shouldn't ever be left alone! Her rat acted like a dog and begged to be let out because he was BORED AND DEPRESSED. Yes she gave him things to do, but how often would you like to tear up a soda container and then take a nap? I bet you would get bored. Rats are just as social as humans and need interaction. Also think of it this way, you can't possibly meet his emotional needs on your own. You don't even speak his language. Having a lone rat is like you being locked in a bedroom only to be let out for 1 hour a day to play with someone who spoke French and you don't know any French.... wouldn't b fun would it. 

Yes rats fight, it's best to get them in pairs from the get go. They will establish dominance and spat here and there, it's typically not a big deal. Now getting 1 rat then getting another one later may prove to be a problem. Litter mates and already bonded pairs work best. 

Tanks are bad news for rats! Ferret cages are better. Aquariums are discussed on the section that says rat homes if your curious why. 

Pet store rats and feeder rats are the exact same thing. They get a shipment in from a horrid breeder who doesn't take care of the rats and doesn't breed for temperament, they only breed for profit. The pet store picks the rats with the best colors of the group and tosses them into a tank to sell as a pet. No socialization, not bred for temperament, and bad treatment (small tanks, mom's who aren't really healthy enough to be breeding, ect) so you are going to have problems there. Yes some people have very nice pet store rats, but that is because they took alot of time to work with them and even then some of them never do come around. It's best to get a pair from a breeder or a rescue. 

As for how unhappy the lone rat was..... all lone rats are unhappy. The person who responded to your post about her rat probably didn't have a clue. Had she have introduced her rat to a friend she would have had a much happier rat. My rat Mr. Frumples was left alone, he did ok, loved his people, ect. however he wasn't truly happy until he got a friend! Once he had friends his eyes even changed, they were lit up more, he played more, he didn't sleep as much, he was much better!


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## StickyTurtle (Jul 19, 2008)

haha by tanks we mean cages, sorry! i'm so used to saying "tank" i will probably falter for a bit here. if i say tank i really mean wire cage!


so breeder it is. i'd rescue first if i can.... but where do i go? petfinder has given me nothing as far as rescues in gainesville, florida goes.


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## pauline (Jul 19, 2008)

i have my rats in a jenny cage


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

http://muttcats.com/shelters/south_carolina.htm

http://www.animalshelter.org/shelters/South_Carolina.asp

I don't know if these are of any use to you. They may be not in suitable locations. Some rescue places.

There's also this breeder:

Historic Rattery (HSTR)
Hilton Head
Rats, breeder
Focusing on show standards in manx and Chinchilla-types. Hairless, Dumbo, American Blue, Satin, Velveteen, and 
Standard Rex types, as well.
Language: English
Shipping-yes, by air, at buyer's expense
Member of Rodentfest, GLFRA, RMFE
Cory [email protected]


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## StickyTurtle (Jul 19, 2008)

thanks stace, that is of use as hilton head is very close to me! however, i am hoping to adopt a rat once i get to gainesville (i think i may have found a good rescue in jacksonville, and she will meet me half way!)

now onto the cage. here is my idea since i will be at a lack of room. i have a desk in my room i never use, and this desk has a nice shelf. could i make the rat cage 2 levels and have one level on the shelf and one level on the desk and have them connected through a tube? would that work well? how would i go about building this contraption?


oh! turns out my roommate loves rats and would be willing to call one her own and give it all sorts of lovens so i wouldnt have to worry about favoritistm


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## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

Randi said:


> The balls, IMO, are horrible. The rat would be so much happier feeling the floor beneath their feet and exploring, smelling the fresh air... not running in one of those silly little balls.
> 
> If you want laid back ratties, definitely go with boys. Girls are pretty high-strung most of the time, but boys tend to be big squish cuddly love bugs.


If you spend a LOT of time with your girls [I mean, I spend all day with mine in the summer] then they will be laid back too, mine follow me all over in the free range room asking for cuddles, if I'm there they don't play as much as they cuddle and climb on me. This isn't typical for girls though, and if you can't get over the initial frustration of their hyperness then girls still aren't the pet for you.



lovinmyworm said:


> Rats shouldn't ever be left alone! Her rat acted like a dog and begged to be let out because he was BORED AND DEPRESSED.


Bullcrap. I may have three, not one, but they still beg to be let out when I'm not in the mood to have them with me. Total bull.

However, it is true that rats need to be kept in pairs. Zinc's sister Klardae died, so I got two young rats from a pet store [bad, I know], and though she still grieves a lot, Cola and Fizz definitely cheered her up a lot.


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

lovinmyworm said:


> Rats shouldn't ever be left alone! Her rat acted like a dog and begged to be let out because he was BORED AND DEPRESSED.


Yeah, I have two and mine still always want to come out whenever I walk past. So that doesn't seem correct.


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

Mine want to be let out of their cage too, trust me every morning every one of them is at the cage door. However when Mr. Frumples was alone he was WAY worse about this. He seemed almost desperate to get out of the cage. Yes he comes to the cage door now, but he isn't shaking the bars and doing whatever he can to get out to me like he did when he was alone.


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## StickyTurtle (Jul 19, 2008)

bumping this up.

anyone think my desk-cage idea would work?


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## Kathleen (Jul 1, 2008)

It sounds like an intriguing idea but I have no idea how you'd do it. Also, I imagine a tube would quickly become messy...

All in all, I don't think the idea sounds bad but it might be a hassle to clean. And the last thing you want is a cage that's a hassle to clean. Trust me.


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## StickyTurtle (Jul 19, 2008)

haha i'll figure something out. one more thing...

what is peafishing and what are "skritches"? sorry if im asking stupid questions....


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

Peafishing is when you put frozen peas in a bowl of water.

Skritches are just pets/scratches/general lovin's.


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## xampx (Dec 31, 2006)

Making your own cage is always a pain and the worst problem is making it easy to clean. You can probably get more advice if you post in the rat homes sections.

As for a chilled out rat, I have seen you say you want one of these a few times.
I have 2 girls and a boy, and only one of the girls is happy to sit with me whilst I watch TV. The other girl likes to explore, and the boy moves at a million miles an hour and is generally quite evil and destructive. Ok so he is not evil, but he is a little bugger who spends all his out time trying to get to anywhere that he is not allowed to go.

It can take quite a lot of work, and a few months, maybe 6 or more for your baby rats to get comfortable enough with you to sit out with you and relax, if it happens at all, so be sure not to get your hopes up too high so you aren't disappointed if they turn out to be independent explorers instead.

Also, if they do fall asleep on you, be warned that they usually pee straight after waking up....


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

xampx said:


> It can take quite a lot of work, and a few months, maybe 6 or more for your baby rats to get comfortable enough with you to sit out with you and relax, if it happens at all, so be sure not to get your hopes up too high so you aren't disappointed if they turn out to be independent explorers instead.
> 
> Also, if they do fall asleep on you, be warned that they usually pee straight after waking up....


My boys are 14 months old ish now and it's only around now they've started to fall asleep next to me really. Mine aint pee-ed on me after waking up, maybe I'm lucky lol.


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## StickyTurtle (Jul 19, 2008)

ah more questions!


whats the best diet that YOU go by? where can i get these imfamous "lab blocks" not in bulk? and if i get two rats and should they play together during free-range time? because my roommate is 'adopting' on of my rats, but they will live together for company.


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## StickyTurtle (Jul 19, 2008)

also, how do you train a rat to come to its name and will it know the boundry of its free-range area? (would i be safe to have them out in my room rat-proofed while i'm in the shower?)


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

I personally wouldn't let them out unsupervised. Yeah they should be let out together, mine enjoy chasing eachother around.


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## StickyTurtle (Jul 19, 2008)

thank you very, VERY much for everyones opinions and advice.

i've given this a great deal of thought and have decided that a rat is not right for me at this time. instead i think i'll opt for a hamster.

appreciate it guys! thanks! i'll probably stick around the forum for a bit....


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## kilas_rattery (Jul 25, 2008)

StickyTurtle said:


> hey y'all, i am new to rats but not new to small pets. i've had a ferret, a hamster and a few mice in the past.
> 
> i am a soon-to-be college student that will be carting down an aquatic turtle, a box turtle and a small fire bellied newt. None of these animals have the furry compassion that i am looking for although i love all of them in their own, unique ways (my turtles are very independent and hate being held, same goes for the newt).
> 
> ...


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