# Possibly pregnant rat about to give birth tonight?



## Voltage

So either Cappuccino is about to give birth tonight or she has pyometra....
There was an incident a little over three weeks ago where it COULD have happened. She does not look pregnant. She looks normal other than a slightly bigger belly. She does look kind of pear shaped but I can't tell.
She is nesting, I threw paper towels into the cage and she pulled them in to her box. Earlier she was squeaking, stretching out and pinching her sides. I then noticed she has a gaping (bigger than when she is in heat) vagina with a few spots of blood. I didn't suspect pregnancy at all and out of concern I pulled her out of the cage and looked her over and have disturbed her several times. If she is pregnant and ready to give birth did I delay the process by doing this?
If she doesn't have babies by morning is it safe to assume its pyometra?
She started doing this after all the vets had closed to I have not been able to take her and plan to first thing in the morning depending on her condition.

So far everything is pointing to being pregnant but she doesn't LOOK pregnant. And just this morning she had escaped her cage and climbed in bed with me. Now she is being skittish, not aggressive but very skittish and doesn't want to be near me but she also doesn't want to be in her cage. She has spent mos of her time since yesterday in the empty soda box I had in their cage building a nest and well, sleeping. I'd seen the other girls help her build the nest but the box had been in there days before and they hadn't done that.

She does have a very tiny bit of a belly and I weighed her earlier she is at 280 grams. I don't know what she normally weighs as this is the first time I've ever weighed her.
Any insight would help greatly.
I have no idea who the father could possibly be if she is pregnant. They are all brothers from the same litter so I doubt I'd be able to tell ultimately anyway since they probably all carry the same genes.
I'm praying its pregnancy and not pyometra, cause I only have $150 right now and I don't know if that will be enough for the vet visit, exams and everything...
I'm so worried about my poor little girl
Please keep her in your thoughts and prayers tonight

I don't know what I'll do if I wake up to find her passed away


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## Grawrisher

Although babies can be stressful I hope for you and your ratties sake that its babies and not te other thing


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## Isamurat

This does sound like the kind of behaviour from a possible mum, they normal get quite restless shortly before birth and is best to leave them be. Spotting normal starts a few hours before birth but I have heard cases where it is longer. She is a small girl but if she is young she may not have put masses of weight on. Moving them around a lot before birth can in some cases cause them to lose the babies though I don't treat pregnant girls any different to normal and is not been an issue, it's more linked with stress levels, too high and it can be an issue. Generally though they do better very close to giving birth so she's probably fine. My latest mum managed to cope with coming here from my friends and her owner The day before she gave birth, we don't normally leave it that late but she was pretty exceptional. 

If there has been no babies by the morning then it could mean pyo or the babies are being reabsorbed. It's a tough one to what you do, covering her with meds is a good idea but if there's a chance that she's still pregnant this won't be good for the babies. Could you work out the dates the incident occured, give us an idea of what day it is. Most rats give birth day 22 or 23, some as late as 24, much larger than that and the chances of a live birth are small


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## Voltage

Well, my flight was August 26th so I think it happened on the 24th? Possibly the 22nd


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## Grawrisher

Any update?


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## TexasRatties

Did she have babies? Or did she go to the vet?


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## nanashi7

I hope all is well


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## Isamurat

So it will either be day 22 today or day 24, this fits with pregnancy, fingers crossed she either has a small litter or reabsorbes without a fuss, it's a lot for such a tiny girl.


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## Voltage

This morning she seems to be doing great but there are no babies.
I've smelled her and wiped a piece of paper towel against her and her pee is normal colored and she smells normal. I also ran my fingers along her belly toward her tail and she doesn't stiffen up or flinch. She stopped squeaking and pinching her sides yesterday. She is still nesting and acting a bit skittish but she isn't lazing around in the box anymore. Her opening closed up too btw.
My dad has pretty much said no vet. I have the money to pay for a vet visit but a bit of the money I have is from them and its all supposed to be for my boyfriend moving out here.
Do you think she needs to be on antibiotics?
She just crawled on my lap and is bruxing while I pet her, she isn't sitting still though.
I also gave her some peas last night and she ate A LOT of them. I gave her a full water bottle (a smaller size like the one they sell at walmart, its that size) and she has drank A LOT of it overnight.

Is it possible it was a "false" pregnancy or perhaps she is reabsorbing or her birth is delaying even more?


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## Isamurat

If she is reabsorping or has pyo then antibiotics are a good idea, I know there are places you can get them online in the states. If possible go for one like septrin which is baby safe just in case and gove ot a full 3 week course, though I think it's unlikley now. The uncomfortable ness yesterday may have been slight contractions but could have also been her feeling unwell. In my mind it would be better to be safe than sorry, pyo is nasty and just because you cant see blood now doesnt mean if ot was that that its fixed as it can become closed which forces the infection inwards, thankfully not that common.


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## Voltage

I have amoxicillin capsules, would those fight any infection?
And is it safe to say that there won't be any babies?
If she is going to have babies at any point I don't want to do any harm to them with the antibiotics right?


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## nanashi7

My girl looked like she was in labor, was nesting, and then would have a normal day. This continued for about five days before she quietly, no side pinching or squeaks, had her litter. :/


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## Voltage

Today would at least be the 23rd day of her pregnancy if she is pregnant. Wouldn't that be pushing it?
I'm watching her like a hawk right now, watching everything she does.
She is still cleaning herself down there too btw, is that a bad sign?


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## nanashi7

My girl did this. A couple days later, the grooming pulled out a pinkie :/

I would wait until day 25, then begin worrying. If your parents are absolutely unwilling to hope, could you get a CareCredit card?

Can you post a picture of her stretching out? Have you guaranteed that she did not in fact already give birth? I know, dumb question but my pinkies were quiet and immobile. I wouldn't have noticed! She also had this habit of burying them.


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## Voltage

She stopped stretching out some time yesterday so I doubt I'll get a picture of that unless she starts doing it again, I do have pictures of her nest within the travel cage though

https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net...=96680fd3f68aaa6de752a064e9859832&oe=523AD19F
https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net...=ce2856b899f1dab3fafa9dfe79380180&oe=523AC99E
https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net...=fd3a3f044007204f936e530b652d7734&oe=523A9C2E
https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net...=e67e0702bcda4027c79e0a69f59c5cfe&oe=523A94E1

The last picture there she was completely underneath all that. She does not look pregnant though she looks rounder than in the picture of her belly.
I've looked the travel cage over and have found no sign of pinkies but I haven't looked thoroughly and have heard nothing.

Uhm, what is a carecredit card?
I will try to apply for one


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## nanashi7

I opened the pictures before I read that the last picture there is no rat. I'm not sure if you want a diagnosis of pregnancy, but guess what my rat did once in her entire life, while nursing? http://s1350.photobucket.com/user/Nanashi_Mu/media/101_0619_zps5ae6adb3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=71Burrowed herself. 
Anyway. How does her vagina look right now?

It is possible of course that she was pregnant and reabsorbed. You don't feel anything if you lightly/hardly touch her belly area?


CareCredit is a credit card; I advocate it because charges over $200 are six-months same-as-cash. It can only be used on medical bills, so it is my emergency vet fund.


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## Voltage

Last time I applied for a credit card of any sort I was declined as I have done absolutely nothing involving credit yet. I'm going to try applying anyway though and see if it gets me anywhere.

I checked the travel cage and there definitely are no babies in it. I'm going to go look right now and see how her belly feels and whatnot.
But yea in the last picture she was under all the paper and stuff. She was like that the whole night which isn't something she has ever done before. I'm also going to weigh her

Edit: I couldn't coax her out of the box


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## Voltage

For the carecredit card are there any monthly charges other than if I use it?
Like if I got it and didn't use it are there any monthly fees to just have it in my possession?

I don't have a job yet and my parents are having me wait until like mid October to start applying because ultimately it will help their financial situation


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## nanashi7

Nope, you just pay on what you use. I had it for like 10 months without using it after a Cancer-scare in my dog. Forgot I even had it until I found it one of my male rats was a female and needed to pay for a neuter FAST.


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## Voltage

Alright, definitely going to apply than, thank you so much for that bit. I'll give an update as soon as Cappi decides she is ready to come out of the box. She was running around earlier, wish I'd have done it then


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## Voltage

I had to nudge her out of the box but her vagina looks normal, the opening is closed right now and her belly feel squishy as far as I can tell


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## nanashi7

Alright, hope for the best!


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## Isamurat

Has her belly changed? When a doe reabsorbs they tend to feel different within a day or two, they go from firm with a very rounded belly to a much softer belly that drops so it looks more like chubbyness. I woukd say by the end of day 25 you can be pretty sure there are going to be no babies, though delayed implatation can happen its pretty rare. 

As far as I'm aware amox is baby safe, it doesn't touch myco (something about it acting on cell walls which myco doesnt have) but its a realy good allrounder ive used a fair bit with abcesses etc. Its worth a shot however if it is pyo this can sometimes be caused by the myco bacteria so it wouldn't help. If she is still bright and happy then it is more likly to be a reabsorbed pregnancy.


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## Voltage

She is gaining weight. The day I started this thread she weighed 270 grams, yesterday she was almost at 280 grams.
I haven't weighed he yet today and I could be mistaken but she does look bigger.
I have been feeling and running my fingers along her belly and she still does not stiffen or flinch so I think it's still safe to say it's not pyo. She has not hunched, pinched or squeaked since. She is being happy and active and is on a three week course of amoxi

Is the weight gain something to be seriously concerned about?

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## nanashi7

Are you pumping her full of protein?
I would say if no babies tonight and we are sure that today is day 25, I would be concerned.


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## Voltage

I've been trying to but she is a pretty picky eater, I tried to give her some of a gourmet dog food thing that had real meat and vegetables in a gravy that has lots of protein, she took one sniff and couldn't be bothered to taste it. Thankfully she likes eggs.

Also she weighs 286 grams now

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## Voltage

Uhm, I just called a vet and they said it would cost $200 - $300 for an exam to find out if she is pregnant. And that was a Banfield. 


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## nanashi7

Well, I was going to say maybe she was getting fat from more protein, but that seems a bit excessive of a growth in a day. How sure are we that this is day 25?


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## nanashi7

Voltage said:


> Uhm, I just called a vet and they said it would cost $200 - $300 for an exam to find out if she is pregnant. And that was a Banfield.
> 
> 
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Woah. What kind of exam where they going to do? Even an office visit shouldn't be more than $40 or so; my vet just picked her up gave her a listen and was like yup she's pregnant.


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## Voltage

Not sure at all
I just know that it happened before August 26th and then we went on an eight hour flight and they have been in a totally different state and home since. Which I wonder if the stress of moving could have anything to do with it

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## nanashi7

Okay. August 8th you said he put them in the wrong cage. She's long past overdue. :/


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## Voltage

They said they would have to x ray
Which I think is really excessive for finding out she is pregnant
And considering there are other ways to find out if she is pregnant makes me wonder if their rat specialist is really well a rat specialist

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## Voltage

Oh no that wasn't when I think it could have happened, let me see if I can find the thread I posted about her escaping into the boy 's cage

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## Voltage

I can't find it but I'm 90% sure it was within four days of me moving

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## nanashi7

I found it, on the 14th she got into their cage (haha I am a top stalker :3) buuuut...that still puts her overdue :/


And I would find another vet...she doesn't need an xray to determine pregnancy.


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## Voltage

The cage they were in had one inch bar spacing so I covered it with chicken wire and it was a drop in with these weird dips in the bottom so some parts were awkward to cover and cappuccino would always find a way to escape and she usually escaped about once a week but it wasn't an issue because she didn't destroy stuff and couldn't get into the boy 's cage. Well a couple days before I moved she was in heat and testing all the different parts of the cage trying to escape. I had the boys cage open while I was reaching in hand wrestling them. Cappuccino got out of her cage and crawled up between the two and darted IN to the cage while I was holding one of the boys. I tried to catch her but she was super wiggly and I thought for sure none of them had gotten her. I had to take the boys out first to get her because she would slip through my fingers like butter

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## nanashi7

http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?97210-Ratties-in-heat&p=802226#post802226
This right?


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## Voltage

Daaang that was way longer ago than I thought. Unless Zach did something and didn't tell me about it there was no other opportunities. She has only escaped once here but that was the day I posted this because I accidentally left most of the door unhooked

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## nanashi7

It's unlikely that she would have gotten so plump you would've noticed and posted this from that event. However, CindrDolly (god pretty sure I got that wrong) recently had a pregnancy "scare" that turned into truth because her boyfriend fibbed about what happened. I would definitely check with Zach and tell him its super important and you won't be upset.


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## Voltage

Yep that is the thread, looks like it happened a few days before hand. Zach could have accidentally put one gender in the wrong cage again and not have told me. I'll have to ask him. Cappuccino escaped A LOT, she is very good at it. Cappuccino would always try to get to the boys. Toast escaped a lot too but she was always trying to get to me

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## nanashi7

No wigglies when you touch her belly though?

Vets I've found:
Dr. Adams/Dr. Bowers: Spencer Springs Animal Clinic 1855 E Warm Springs Rd Las Vegas, NV 89119
(702) 896-9999

Dr. Chris T. Eugenio: Community Animal Hospital 4871 Summit Ridge Drive Reno Nv 89506
775-746-0333

http://exoticpets.about.com/od/healthandsafetyissues/a/Nevada-Exotics-Vet.htm
http://www.westflamingo.com/
https://sites.google.com/site/theratwhisperersusratvetlist/nevada-rat-vets


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## Voltage

I just asked him and he said nothing that he knows of...
I highly doubt my parents accidentally mixed their genders... When I moved I had them in the same container with a divider. When we put them in we blocked one side while we put them in. But when we took them out I was so eager to get them out of the container I opened it and we just started grabbing rats, I had my back turned at one point and it could have happened. I also had both genders in the same cage with a craft cutting board blocking off the top from the bottom in which they were left unattended for awhile

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## nanashi7

Were your parents in charge of any handling though? They might not be able to tell your babies apart like you can. 

And the likeliness is that unless they were unattended for a while, Cappuccino wouldn't have climbed in their side then climbed back into her own cage (especially if she is the Hellion I think you're describing).


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## Voltage

I should also add that she has been in heat. She was in heat the day I posted this thread, same day she escaped because of my mistake

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## nanashi7

If she's been in heat, that rules out her being pregnant. A rat won't go into heat when it is pregnant.

I have no clue what could make a rat gain weight that fast when not pregnant. How old is she? Are there any other things going on (she tires out quicker, etc)?


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## Voltage

No my parents don't handle them unless I'm there. Not because I don't let them but because they don't feel comfortable doing it.
I do think cappuccino visited the boys the other day btw. The girls are small enough that they can squeeze through the bars of their ferret cage. I don't know if that helps or not. 

I would think if she was pregnant she wouldn't do that though

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## Voltage

Do mucous plugs mean definite pregnancy, and does the lack of mean definitely not?

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## nanashi7

The mucus plug occurs immediately after the male has inseminated the female. If you saw one, that means one of your males definitely successfully mated with her.

When is "the other day"? Some rats get that round shape at 1.5weeks in (or rather around 10 days).


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## Voltage

It's been under ten days
But I don't know if it was a plug or discharge

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## nanashi7

(I just became the weirdest kid on campus...)
This is a picture of a mouse, but it shows a mucus plug fairly well versus no mucus plug: http://www.thefunmouse.com/info/images/plug.jpg


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## Voltage

I can't really tell too well.
What it looked like was an off white wall inside of her. It wasn't coming out our anything and was there for awhile.
I wasn't really sure if it was a cause for concern and I was freaking out about the blood a little bit more than the white stuff
This all happened the same day
I don't think the boys getting her would cause pinching and bleeding though. Or if it was false Labor

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## nanashi7

Perhaps the blood was from "popping her cherry"? I don't know if that is something rats do...


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## Voltage

I don't know if I should be upset that I have a rat hellbent on escaping and getting to the boys or grateful the rest of my girls aren't like they. Toast is an escape artist too but she never shows interest in the boys. Peanut butter and Arya just plain out never try to escape, same with my boys, unless they are trying to get the bag of food on top of their cage, then they are hellbent on getting out. Yesterday I was sitting on my bed eating m& Ms and they were on the bars resting their heads on their paws giving me the cutest little begging face asking for a bite as if they were starving. They are gluttons

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## nanashi7

You posted that your boys were going crazy for you right? Usually boys will do that over the scent of a female who is in heat; girls might also show some interest. If they don't live in the same room, I would try taking Cappuccino to the bars and see what they want to do with her and what she wants to do with them.


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## Voltage

Well if the boys got her it was around 6am, she was bleeding around 7 or 8 pm and was doing the side pinching and squeaking at around 7

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## Voltage

The girl 's cage is right next to the boys at different heights. My parents want them all in my room as did the last person I lived with 

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## nanashi7

I have no clue. I would just call down that vet list and find someone knowledgeable in rats and cheap.


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## Voltage

I had like a bit over.$150 but I just paid for my boyfriend 's flight and am now flat broke

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## nanashi7

Darn. Hopefully Isamurat will come back on (they're a breeder, so they know more) and ponder this.

Is she fat and otherwise normal? If so maybe you could wait and see whats what.


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## TexasRatties

It sounds like she is possibly pregnant but I have never dealt with a pregnant rat myself. Maybe you should call an exotic vet and see if they will give you any over the phone advice.


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## Voltage

I'm at the store with my dad right now who is one of those couponshoppers that you see on TV, he isn't as extreme but we've spent eight hours in one day at different stores already once since I've been back and shopping trips take hours with him
I'll start calling around tonight. I have a friend who is a vet too and deals with rodents, she might have some advice as well

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## nanashi7

Haha oh my god that sounds like loads of fun. It actually is one exasperating thing I miss about living with my grandma who was the same way.

I hope something works out :/


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## Isamurat

I've never yet had a girl pass blood after mating and not come across it else where but that doesn't mean it's not possible, however spotting before losing or having babies is normal. I have heard of girls being bitten near there bits by overly rough boys but I've not seen it. I've also never had a girl seem in pain after mating but all my girls have been close to 12 months or older and good solid girls who were built for litter baring so it may be different for a small lady.

When I've had a girl lose her babies she spotted, nested and looked uncomfortable about day 23, then went softer the next day and went on heat, she then passed a little brownish discharge for a few days before going back to normal size over the course of a weak. I put her On antibiotics As a coverall. pregnant does can actually come onto heat just before giving birth to, what makes rats so effective lol.

In terms of plugs I leave the Doe in with the buck overnight if she's taken to him and by the time I've checked on them in the morning she is well cleaned up. I would be surprised it was in for this long. Infection can be a milky smelly discharge and this is normally quite serious when it appears so the girl would look quite ill. 

How is she now, any changes. I would pursue a better bet if possible and use the antibiotics you have in for now if she looks even slightly off.


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## Voltage

Wait, so rats do bleed after mating?
I hadn't seen Cappuccino go into heat in the past so many weeks actually, this time that she escaped was the first time I'd seen it happen in a long while and normally she goes into heat every four days like clockwork and its usually pretty noticeable. I may for some reason just have missed it this whole time. She also stopped trying to escape for a long while which is EXTREMELY unusual for Cappi. As I've mentioned she lives to escape. Ever since we first brought her home she has been escaping her cages. She even found a faulty bar on one of her old cages and pulled it off of where it was welded and escaped that way. She has been doing this since before we got the boys. And normally she was ALWAYS interested in them til round when we moved. She stopped going into heat and stopped caring about the boys. Then all the sudden the other day she started caring and escaped. It wasn't thanks to her genius rat mind though. It was thanks to my stupidity. The doors have four hooks on them and I only attach the two on the side not the top and bottom ones. I accidentally left the bottom one unhooked so only the top right corner was hooked and she just pushed it open and squeezed out. I'm guessing she squeezed into the boys cage, had her fun then squeezed out to explore cause she woke me up with her cold little rat nose. Something she does a lot when she escapes, she'd climb in bed with me and my boyfriend and poke her nose at our skin.
I've been sniffing her down there A LOT out of fear and she DEFINITELY doesn't smell foul. She smells like she always does. So I guess that means it was a plug huh?

oh god Cappi just gave me a huge scare. I turned around and she was climbing in to the hole in my wall which I had put a sock in prior. I feel so bad I immediately grabbed the base of her tail and had to pull her out. Welp, definitely can't free range on the bed til I get that fixed now. My gosh, she really is my little trouble maker....I usually don't have to worry cause she always comes right back to me when I call her but I did NOT want to risk that.especially since I scare her by grabbing her tail.

I did weigh her a couple times btw and have concluded that my scale just sucks, it gives me a different read each time in the general weight. So she might not be gaining weight at all. I'm going to try and buy a new scale.

She is on antibiotics right now. It sounds like unless I can go for a really cheap price I won't be able to go to a vet at all til I have a job. I lack the funds since I paid for my boyfriend's flight out here and all the money I had saved up went to me and my ratties flying out here. I should have a job by mid october or November. My parents are having me hold off on getting work because they are filing chapter 7. The original idea was for me to move out here and start applying right away but we may be better off financially if I follow along with their thing. And my boyfriend will be able to start applying for work as well.
But if things take a turn for the worse I will PTS instead of letting her suffer. Which I PRAY will never come to that. Hopefully all the serious stuff will wait until I can afford all them vet bills again. My emergency vet money went to moving as I mentioned. And if it didn't go to moving my boyfriend's mom would have demanded it for rent anyway.


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## nanashi7

Maybe she WAS pregnant, and lost the litter? In a couple days you should know. But you think she might've gotten a mucus plug and be in deep water again?


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## Voltage

Well the thing is there should NOT have been any case or scenario where she could have even gotten pregnant. I've only ever had two scares and those were too long ago to fit into this. I thought the second scare was right before my trip so I thought it was a possibility. And the ONLY other times she could have gotten pregnant would have been August 26th when we were taking them out of the container. Like you said its unlikely she would have gotten to the boys part of the cage and back to hers especially with the mat still covering it. It wasn't long afterwards though that Toast demonstrated that they could easily get in and out of the cage.
I mean she may have THOUGHT she was mated with or perhaps she was mated with while we were taking them out of the container. I don't remember who I grabbed or how long it took but I could have sworn they were so dazed they didn't even try to get to each other. My dad assures me that they didn;t do anything while we were putting them in the cage but I'm not sure he was even facing the container.

I am really thinking the white stuff I saw in her was a mucous plug or what was left over from cleaning it as I was asleep when it all happened so I can't confirm or deny what happened while I was asleep. And her genitals don't smell foul so I don't think it was an infection. I'm starting to think that what I saw was from possible mating. And will soda cause side pinching?
Because I think she may have stolen a few licks of my soda during free range not too long before she started doing that.


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## nanashi7

I don't know, people do say carbonation and rats don't mix well.


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## Voltage

Like I mentioned btw it seems that the scale is just screwed up. I tried weighing a normal object several times and it kept coming up different weights.
I'm going to have to buy a new scale to get accurate readings, so weight may not have been an issue like I was thinking it was.


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## Isamurat

I terms of bleeding after mating I meant I have neverseen it happenor comeacross it but that doesnt rule it out asbeing possible as idealwith breeder rats, who are mat we d whe they are ready and able to have babies.

She does sound like a bit of a minx. If she is this determined it may be well worth getting her spayed, or perhaps your boys neutered to prevent this risk or moving one sex to a different room. If youve had 2 scares in a few weeks then its currently not working. I dont mean to sound horrible but even with well bred rats who are old enough pregnancy carries risks. Earlier this year we mated up a girl in the prime of her life, she had a wonderful pregnancy and settled down to give birth as normal. Thats where it went wrong, all of the babies was born dead and she was visibly upset, worse she had a baby stuck in her birth canal and more inside her making her in a lot of pain and at high risk of dying. She was rushed to the vet by my fellow breeder, who then spent 8 hours and over 500 pounds trying to save her life. She was given a 25% chance or survival at best and had to have an emergency spay and all tbe dead babies removed from inside her. She made it but it was such a close call. Whilst babies are cute honestly unless you have a real purpose in trying to improve the next generation a d try and make it as safe as possible for the mum the its not worth the risks and you have to really protect your girls from it.


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## Voltage

Cappuccino shouldn't have anymore late night escapes in her lifetime. The cage she used to be in was very easily escapable for her but now I have her in the Martin cage and the bar spacing is WAY too tiny for her to get out and it is a drop in so she can't chew through the plastic (which is one thing she has actually never tried, she'll chew on the bars all day and never the plastic) 
The cage is pretty escape proof. And there are more risks than just her getting pregnant if she escapes. I leave my door open at night and the dogs have free reign of the house and there is a doggy door that leads outside downstairs.
Normally thedogs would sleep in my room in my bed every night but I moved and lived in Michigan for a year and I'm just not their favorite anymore. Ginger is still pissed at me and won't even give me the time of the day much less come in my room. I was incredibly lucky she decided to climb my bed and not leave the room. It didn't even occur to me as a possibility that she would escape. But I guarantee I will NOT be making that mistake again because there may be bigger consequences than a pregnant rat. 

I would get a spay done as to eliminate the risk and take a possible litter off my hands but unfortunately I'm flat broke. When I was in Michigan my boyfriend 's mom, Vicki, would try to drain me of every penny and she had no idea about my saved up emergency vet money but eventually she started demanding money assuming I had any to give and I just really needed to leave. She charged more rent than it would have cost for me and my boyfriend to have our own place and we couldn't save up to move as she would take it all. I gathered everything I had and even had to ask for emergency commissions and donations to move me and my rats and then I saved up to get Zach out of there and I just paid for his ticket. I also had to buy a new rat cage.
A LOT has been going on in my life.
And while there were two scares only one of those was from an escape and the other was my boyfriend accidentally putting a boy in the girl 's cage. And even though they happened within a couple weeks of each other, those are the only scares we have had.

I am willing to bet btw, if my boys had been in a different room, cappuccino would have left my room when she escaped. Which makes me grateful both cages were in my room...

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## nanashi7

Is she still pretty roundish today? Any changes in the feeling of her belly?


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## Voltage

Oh and apparently I'm a rat hypochondriac. Which I admit a bit. In the three weeks I've been back I've demanded to be taken to the vet at least three times ready to spend all of my moving fund. Took Toast in to find out nothing was wrong with her.
My dad unfortunately is now VERY skeptical.
Took me a little while to get back what I spent and my dad had to contribute which he wasn't happy about since is spent money on Toast for nothing. 
After being ready to spend all the money on cappuccino going to the vet he had me buy the plane ticket to avoid me wasting it. Which is probably a good thing if it turns out she is perfectly fine cause while I'm spending money on vet visits he isn't really eating well there. 
He is extremely picky and his mom has taken drastic measures to get rent out of him by not buying food he will eat. He eats pretty much once a day and is underweight. Him and his siblings have said she is abusive and while I've never witnessed the hitting, only the screaming and lying. I'm truly shocked this woman even has custody of her kids. Zach tried moving out once before and his mom demanded $60 a WEEK for his phone and with cut hours he couldn't afford the rent and paying her. And of course once he moves she'll pull the same crap but we'll be waaaaaay out of her reach and my parents are going to put him on our plan. We are going to pay back only $1000 of what she says we owe her instead of the $3000 she thinks we should be paying her. 
Zach hasn't even told her he plans on moving and it's not my job to tell his mom that he is, plus I'm worried that she will try to keep him from moving. Cause his rent is how she affords groceries and her own rent. And by that she means buying new quads and bigger trucks. I told her before I left that he was going to be moving and she laughed like it was the funniest thing she had heard and has been telling me since that he won't move. Kept saying he is only telling me he will and that I'm upsetting him by moving myself. She tried pulling a guilt card a lot to get me to stay because she was trying to use me to control Zachary. And as a way to get more money.... 

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## Voltage

I haven't checked yet, it's still dark and the only reason I'm up is cause peanut butter and toast got in a very loud scuffle and I had to get up to intervene then realized I had to go to the bathroom and now I can't sleep. Her meds time is in three hours and I'll update then

Sorry my last post got pretty off topic. I just need to rant about that sometimes as its infuriating.....

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## Isamurat

I dont suppose you could get hold of some galstrop, its an anti tumour drug which has the side affect of 1 dose stopping any pregnancy. Its commonly jsed here in the uk to terminate pregnancies where they would be dangerous for the mum. I woild find it hard using it late on in pregnancy but if you think its only recent shes been caught then its probably a good time. I expect your current bad vet wouldnt perscribe it but I know that you can get some meds online in the us that you cant in the uk.

Another bit of possibly useful info, phantom pregnancies tend to end 2ith the doe spotting or similar around day 15, a lot earlier than true pregnancies.


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## Voltage

I mentioned the galstrop to my mom and explained that it would terminate her pregnancy and she freaked out asking why I would do such a terrible thing. My mom is Prochoice but highly disagrees with abortion and apparently that goes for animals too.
I told her it would eliminate the risk of complications during birth that I wouldn't be able to afford and she says if it's unlikely I should let cappi have her babies.
I'll still look into the galstrop and I can easily give it to cappi without my mom needing to know. I'll feel really guilty now though.
Not to keen on risking Cappi's life though

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## Voltage

How late would be too late btw, she is a few days in now and it will probably be a week by the time I get the galstrop
Also if she isn't pregnant will it harm her?

And is this something I would want to keep in my home for emergencies?

Edit: when I google galstrop I only get one result about someone telling someone to use galstrop on their dog

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## nanashi7

It's actually not something that I've found a vet will use at least around me. No vet around me new what I was talking about when I said an abortive injection. I don't know if it has to do with more UK v. US stuff but they assured me there was no such thing and it wouldn't be safe if there was. They told me e-spay was the only abortive method for rats. Just sharing.

OH: and after about 15 days, the rat is nearly ready to pop. This would be like aborting during your 7/8mo of pregnancy probably. Very stressful, not something a vet would do. (I didn't know how long along she was when I asked).


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## Isamurat

I mis spelled it appologies, it is galastop and it is useually perscribed to treat hormonally driven lumps on animals here in the UK. It's fairly new though and not all vets will use it, especially on rats as though is been heavily tested on them is not always in their books on them. There's more info about how it works here http://www.fancyratsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=13514&hilit=galastop+pregnant as well as some stuff on the ethics.


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## TexasRatties

I think that would be kind of far in her pregnancy and what if it went horribly wrong with abortion medications. I think the pregnancy risks don't out weigh the experimental drug risks personally but that is just my opinion.


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## Voltage

I'm pretty nervous about trying to use something this new. 
I'm uploading a video that shows my cage set up and cappuccino and stuff.
I say that she has always been a chubby girl but I forget to mention that she has never been this chubby. I don't think my girls are full grown though but I'm not sure. They just seem pretty tiny but they should be like eight months at least

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## Isamurat

TexasRatties said:


> I think that would be kind of far in her pregnancy and what if it went horribly wrong with abortion medications. I think the pregnancy risks don't out weigh the experimental drug risks personally but that is just my opinion.


It isnt an experimental drug, any more than one of the many drugs like fortekor, frusomide etc that we use with rats yet arent licencsed on rats . The vast majority, in fact probably all, were developed using lab rats, and yet because they dont see a big market in pet rats they dont bother to get the drugs licensed for them. There Have Been a lot of studies on rats tacos, does and even cays, beforeit was deemed save for human use, such as here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8946561/ , note this study is in the medicine name rather than the brand name. 

Saying that if it was getting to day 20 I don't think i could do it as the babies are getting to the point where they can be born viably and survive. Earlier on though and if I had a potentially pregnant rescue or a rat who I felt was at high risk herself of complications, or if I knew the babies had a high risk of being very sickly and having rubbish lives I would use it.


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## Voltage

Just an update.
Cappi is still very happy and active.
I haven't gotten a new scale yet but I've still been using the same one a bit because it gets the general weight. I weighed her and it's almost 300 grams now. I think she is definitely looking bigger. If she just got pregnant would she be gaining this much weight already?
Her actual weight could be lower or heavier.
And if so should I be expecting a huge litter....
I'm really freaking out...

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## Isamurat

How old is she? 

A large weight gain does not neccesarily mean a large litter, sometimes does will put on a lot of extra weight from their increased appetite, but yku need to be careful with this as it can lead to birthing complications. Generally new born babies weigh around 5 to 7g each, however thats not a great guide as unless you know your girl very well you wont know whats excess weight and whats baby weight. For instance I know my current mum was starting to get excess weight, becuase thats what her mum and grandma did and I was watching for it. I let her owner know and she cut back a little on dry mix and she did better because of it.


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## Voltage

She is around eight months old.
She naturally has a pear shape and roundish belly. Always has.

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## Isamurat

She is probably a bit overweight for her size then. Make sure she doesnt get any extra and keep an eye on her cagemates. You could up the amount of protien in her diet but not the amount of calories. Excess weight increases the chance of birthing complications, amongst other things.


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## Voltage

So what should I be cutting out of her diet though, they havent had many treats lately.... Though it could be what I've been mixing with her medicine to get her to take it I've been mixing in koolaid cause she loves it and that is the only beverage we really have right now that isn't soda

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## Isamurat

What is there diet?


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## Voltage

They eat wild harvest rat blocks along with the occasional scrambled or hard boiled egg. Sometimes they get carrots, strawberries and plain rice crispies.
There isn't really anything I feed them regularly. Though today they got some plain chicken, some apple and banana flavored applesauce and a hard boiled egg. They usually don't get this much but I think the girls could use a few extra grams


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