# First time Rat owner with a problem, go figure...



## Cayden (Mar 26, 2007)

Hi, 
My name is Brad, and I am a first time rat owner. I purchased a feeder rat a week ago from PetCo. My daughter named her Rita the Rat. Being that I have had her for a week i was hoping to see a difference in her behavior, but i am not. She has bit me twice (I know thats not a big deal because my finger could of smelt like food, but OUCH). She doesn't rellay want out of her cage, but i still try and get her out for interaction with me and my wife. she is not very active, i would not call it lethargic, but she doesn't seem to like to play or run on her wheel. she likes to hide in her tube or under the wheel. She will not take treats from my hand, she will only eat them if i put them down and close the cage. I am just trying to figure out if i bought a traumatized rat, or if there is something i am doing wrong. I spot clean the cage every day, and did a full clean this weekend using 1/10 diluted cleaning spray. I Feed her every day the same dry food they use at the pet store, and discard what she didn't eat every night and replace it. I also feed her carrots, grapes, and she also likes fruity cheerios, but i use the cheerios as a the treat. I try to take her out of the cage every day, except when she really doesn't seem to want to, and i don't want to force her. After all this she just is not seeming to warm up to me, I really don't want to take her back (cant stand to think of her as a snakes meal) But i really wanted a rat that would let me hold it, and sleep in my lap. I also wanted to litter train, but with her not taking treats from my hand, and not letting me pet her to show her she did something good, i dont see how i am going to get that to work. Sorry for the really long post, but there was just a lot on my mind, and i can tell by reading some of these posts your opinions would mean a lot to me


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

First off, welcome to the forum! 

Sounds like you have a young rat who wasn't socialised much before you got her. Chances are it's because she's in a new spot and all alone. Rats do better in groups of two or more and lone rats *can* have more behavior issues. Many times it helps a shy rat to have a more bold cagemate as they'll follow the braver rat around and see that humans aren't all bad.

A good idea is called forced socialisation. You can do this by wearing a hooded sweater and putting her in the front pouch, while she's there rub her through the material. She'll have a safe dark spot in there and get to know your smell and touch without feeling as threatened. She should be handled about an hour a day if not more, especially where she's so nervous. I know it's a big commitment but you'll start to see results .

Also, store bought rat food is pretty crappy stuff and expensive to boot. What many people do is make their own mix called Subee's Mix. Instructions can be found here - http://www.ratsrule.com/diet.html. It works out to just a few dollars s month if you have 2-3 rats. 

Thanks for coming on the forum and asking questions, it's great to see new owners who care so much for their rats .


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## Cayden (Mar 26, 2007)

I know they do better in groups, but my biggest fear with having 2 was being overwhelmed with the cleaning and care of having to then having to give them back or to a shelter. I figure I can get used to having a rat with one, and they only live about 3 years, and the next time i buy rats i will get 2 because i know what to expect. 

Also i did try something like the hooded sweatshirt when i take her out. i use an old shirt that i dont care about and let her hide in that when i have her out, But all she wants to do is get the heck away.

I read alot on rat body language, and it seems like she is realy distressed, and i just want to make her feel more comfertable, and one of the family. Commitment to her is no issue being that i have no other pets.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

That's probably the biggest misconception about pet rats. Believe me, if you have a proper sized cage caring for two rats is just as easy as caring for one. it's actually downright cruel on rats to deny them the companionship of their own kind.

I just rescued a young female who had been on her own since November, and it nearly broke my heart to see the joy she had when she met my two girls. 

Litter training is fairly simple, if they poop outside the litter box use a kleenex to put it where it should be. Rats by nature are very clean animals and catch on very quickly.


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## Cayden (Mar 26, 2007)

first i forgot to thank you for the post on the food, i will try that out. 
Second would it be hard introducing a second female rat? I have only had Rita for less than a week, she shouldn't have many issues with territory.


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

Hello Brad, welcome to the forums. 

I would pretty much echo what reachthestars, says. A little companion for her would bring her on leaps and bounds and it really isn't any more effort to look after two than one. Keeping rats in 2 or more of the same sex groups also makes them happier, more relaxed and can prolong their lifespan.

The other thing about getting her a friend soon is it will help with introductions which, believe me, can be a pain in the backside if you wait until they are older. (I've just introduced a 4 month old to a 14 month old and it took about 2 months, all in all.)

Overall, I wouldn't worry too much about her being timid, atm. She is getting used to her new environment, new people, sounds, smells... it does take some rats a good bit of time. Try to be consistent and keep doing what you are doing. Once she realizes you are not going to hurt her, she will start to warm up to you. As Reachthestars says, forced socialization is also a good way to go.

But definitely do consider getting a (female) friend for her. If/when you do, take a little time to study the rats and see if any of them stand out to you... try to pick one that you can see has a little character and looks inquisitive. Perhaps even put your hand in there and see if any of them sniff you out.

Good luck with her, and try not to worry too much. As long as she is eating and drinking, she's most likely fine and just needs a bit of time and determination from you and your family.


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## codcommando (Feb 7, 2007)

WELCOME! I know from experience that white feeder rats can be problematic due to their bad vision and they're usually not socialized,being dismissed as snake food. My sunny is a white feeder rat and acts the same way even after having her for 2 months. Your best bet is forced socialization and LOTS of treats but the best cure is usually a cage mate. After two months Sunny has made loads of progress. Just keep at the forced socialization for 30 minutes a day and she'll be loveable and fun in no time. Dont expect her to be a big cuddler, females almost never are. Soon you'll wish your rat wasn't so accustomed to you when shes grooming your eyebrows, hair and mouth whether you like it or not lol Goodluck!


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

Cayden said:


> would it be hard introducing a second female rat? I have only had Rita for less than a week, she shouldn't have many issues with territory.


It should be really easy and take no time at all, at this stage. Having said that, all rats have their own personalities, so you can't really assume you can just shove a new rat in there. Rita may feel it's more her home than you think.

Any new rat that you buy should be quarantined for at least 2 weeks, preferably in a different room, in case it has any infections that can be transmitted by air.

Once you are past that stage, it is wise to put the two cages side by side for a while, to let them get used to each other's scents. Be careful not to put them close enough that they can grab each others tails through the bars.

Once they seem relaxed with that stage, you can introduce them in a neutral territory, like the bath tub. Let them interact and get used to each other. This is something that, if you decide to go ahead, you should read up on quite a bit - how rats will behave towards each other, what to expect, what it means when they do such and such. If you go into introducing rats blind, it can be very scary for you and the rats, not to mention dangerous for the rats.

Once you have them playing with each other without aggression and you are comfortable with them being together, you can put them in a cage together. This should be a cage that is new to them both, so neither one is territorial. You can use an existing cage, too; preferably the least dominant rat's cage. Be sure to thoroughly scrub it so it doesn't smell of the rat that lived there before, and rearrange the furnishings so that it feels like a new cage to both of them.

Considering you have only just got Rita, I would say you could go through this process in just over 2 weeks. Once you are past the quarantine, I would think you could introduce them in just a few days. Precaution and preparation are the key, though.


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## Sara_C (Mar 10, 2007)

Kudos to you for coming on here and doing your homework - it's so nice to see owners who genuinely care about the happiness of their pets, and who only want the best for them 

Other than that.....i say exactly what they said! And to say that Rome wasn't built in a day! Time will do a lot more than you could ever imagine - be patient and i'm sure that soon you won't even remember how scared Rita is now, i bet she'll be like a completely different rat give her a month or so.


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## Cayden (Mar 26, 2007)

I wanted to stick my hand in the cage to see which rat would come to me, but the lady there wouldn't let me, because if i got bit she would have to fill out paper work.. Also i like solid brown, or khaki colored rats, and i dident have alot to choose from.

Rita is a beautiful shade of brown


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## Sara_C (Mar 10, 2007)

Hmmm...i normally look for rats that don't shy away from you when their cage...tank...whatever they are in is opened, or look for the one that is bravest and that comes out to see what's going on.


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

That sucks! I don't think I've seen pet shop owners be that uptight before!

Like Sara said, try to get as close as they will let you and just watch them for a few minutes. That's how we chose our second rat. Her character shone through, and it's really paid off; she's a proper bundle of joy.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

Wow, I would *not* go back to that petstore! When I worked for Pets Unlimited I would let interested people put their hands in the rats cages to get to know them. I've been bitten twice and never by a rat in a petstore, and I was the one to take them out of their travel cages! 

I would suggest looking for a local rat rescue or a breeder for her cagemate. They're better socialised and in need of a good home.


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## Cayden (Mar 26, 2007)

Figured i would post a picture










Thanks everyone for your advice, and your warm welcome. I will talk it over with the family about getting a second, but at the current moment i will work on forced socialization.


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

Very cute! 

I don't mean to be a nag, but you should probably get something to cover those wire shelves. Wire shelves combined with rat urine can cause a nasty, and no doubt expensive, condition called bumblefoot.

A lot of people cover them with lino tiles, the sticky peel off kind, or towels and other fabrics.


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## Cayden (Mar 26, 2007)

In all fairness PetCo isn't a mom & pop pet store, its a corporation, and whenever there is an incident of any kind i am sure paperwork has to be filled out. I am sure it is store policy, and she was just doing her job. And for picking one based on looks and not behavior, I know that was shallow, but i had an image in my head of what i wanted, and i am weird.


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## Cayden (Mar 26, 2007)

the wire you see is a 2 lvl topper to a 10gal fish tank. the fish tank at the bottom has the proper ammount of bedding. and when i did a full cleaning i wiped down the metal part with uncented baby wipes.


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

Cayden said:


> I know that was shallow, but i had an image in my head of what i wanted, and i am weird.


That's not at all weird, most of us have an idea of what we want, in our heads.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

Petco isn't that great a chain for getting pets at period but particularly bad fo getting rats. the rats are never socailized and more often then not sick and overcrowed on the wrong bedding. if you were using their standards as a guide as to what to feed and what to use as bedding i'd stop. the suebee's mix as mentioned before is good. as for litter do not use pine or cedar. the oils on these beddings cause respiratory problems and liver cancer. if you want to use a wood chip then aspen is the only safe one. however i find its not that great for odour control and so buy yesterdays news instead. it last twice as long and if you buy from a feed store instead half the price (i can buy a 30 lbs for 13.58 CDN at a feed store and for the same money can only get a 15lbs bag anywhere else). each bag will last me a couple of months or more and i have 7 rats. 

but my main advice is to not get anymore rats from Petco. there are a few chains that a better then others but none are good to get rats from and are still at the bottom of the recommended pet store lists. if you cannot find a rescue or breeder near you then try a different store. i believe it was Vixie who had the check list to decide if a store was good enough (has a good chance of heathly animals) to buy from. its a very good check list. sje posted it on here somewhere but perhaps she'll post it again here when she reads this. 

one last bit against petco then i'll drop the subject as dead. though petco is a big chain so is the one the reachthestars mentioned and they should let you touch and handle the animals. this is just one more reason why Petcos are not recommended. anyway, i'll let it rest for now. 

very beautiful little girl you have there too. i have a soft spot for aqoutis after i met my chatterbox Dust. but the speckling on yours is especailly prominent. very nice coloring.


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

Hrm, I think that woman just didn't want to do her job if the rat bit you >_> They sound lazy to me D:

I think I've handled animals at petco before with no hassle. That one must just have really dumb management. If you are going big chains I think PetSmart is better. But yeah looking for a breeder would be the best bet, you would be amazed at how different they could be.

Your girl is gorgous though D:


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## Cayden (Mar 26, 2007)

only problem with petsmart is they only carry males, and i wanted a female. once again for aesthetic reasons. They have huge testicals, there hypnotic. also i read they like to mark and spray more than females. and as for breeders there are some not too far from me, but i didn't think know of them till you guys told me. the next rat i buy i will check out a breeder first.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

Some males do seem to have a marking problem, If you wish i've hurd that getting them fixed, fixes this problem then the huge testicals are gone too. I will admit i have never fixed any of my males so you might want to talk with someone who has incase i am a little off fact. I've noticed with my boy he marks the most when my girls are being tease's lol other than that he doesn't mark too bad. Like i said it varys from rat to rat, I'm not saying run out buy a male and get him fixed. Just maybe this can be an option incase you don't find a female for your girl.  She is beautiful btw .


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

Neutering did decrease Tsume's desire to mark, but then I had to go out and get Amelia who marks as much as any boy I've owned! Most rats will scent mark to some extent, as it tells them where they've been and where it's safe. 

Good idea getting a rat from a breeder. my first two boys were from a breeder and they were fabulous rats.


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

reachthestars said:


> Most rats will scent mark to some extent, as it tells them where they've been and where it's safe.


Yes, our youngest girl does that a lot. I think it's because her eyesight is particularly bad. Our eldest can see better than her, and she doesn't seem to do it so much.


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## Cayden (Mar 26, 2007)

small update- last night the forced socialization went well, I was able to pet her with no problems. there was a few times where she put her ears back, but all in all she was not too opposed to the whole thing. i will do it again when i get home from work. is there a snack that rats cannot resist that isn't horrible for them. I only ask because i would really like her to take a treat from my hands. currently i use fruity cheereos as treats, because she loves them, but wont take it from my hand.


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## Sara_C (Mar 10, 2007)

Chicken! Or Cheerios.


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## Cayden (Mar 26, 2007)

should I have meat in the rats diet? Currently she is living as a herbivore on feed, fruits, and veggies. I am not opposed to giving her meat, just didn't know if i was supposed too. Also i am guessing grilled chicken, and not fried. would those precooked\cut Tyson's grilled chicken in resealable bags be a good idea to keep around for a snack, or is there a specific way to prepare it that they like?


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

Our girls never turn down a piece of banana or hard boiled egg. You could try peas or fresh sweetcorn. You can also buy yoghurt drops, which she should enjoy.

The best thing is just keep trying different things. Our girls go through phases. One minute they can't get enough grapes, the next they're all like "pah! I don't want a stupid grape!" then snap my hand off for a carrot. You can give them most things that are fresh, as long as they are not too high in fat, salt or sugar. The only fresh foods you shouldn't give, according to a book I have, are -

Raw beans or peanuts
Raw sweet potato
Raw red cabbage
Raw Brussels sprouts
Raw artichokes
Raw bulk (non-packaged) tofu
Green bananas
Green potato skin and eyes

On top of these, rats shouldn't have carbonated beverages, because they can't burp. Chocolate is also something that should be given very occasionally and in very small quantities.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

when feeding a rat the best rule of thumb is whatever is good for you is good for them. there is a few exceptions that can be found by googling forbidden rat food lists. but rats are omnivorves so having some meat in the diet is a good idea. just watch that you don't offer too much because they can get itchy. but simply cutting back on the protein fixes the problem. experiement with the levels and if you keep close records then you'll have a breeze of a time finding the right level for your rat.

what "feed" is she on? what does it consist of?


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## Cayden (Mar 26, 2007)

she is on Kaytee Forti-Diet Rat food from PetCo, but I am prob going to go to the grocery store today, and make her some suebee's rat mix everyone here is talking about. but besides the generic food at the moment i also give her baby carrots, grapes, fruity cheerios, frozen pees, and broccoli in moderation. Only problem i see with the rat mix is, it sounds too good. she may have to fight me off when she sees me sneaking a taste


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

*chuckles* there are the good bits in there aren't there... 

i've never used Kaytee myself but i've heard dramatically mixed reviews. some swear by it and other abhore it. its been reportedly linked to serious health issues but i've never looked into it. perhaps there was a recall on a certain batch or a certain type of kaytee is bad. i don't know. i never really looked into it (just different tidbits i've read on forums) not having ever used it myself. but you may want to check it out. though if your changing to suebee's mix soon anyway i guess it doesn't really matter.


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## Sara_C (Mar 10, 2007)

About the chicken - if my boys have ever had it's been scraps or tidbits from a whole roast chicken, or grille,d like you said. They don't get it too often as i'm veggie, so it's only when another family member has it that i steal some  I give them prawns, tuna and other oily fish when i have it, and also dried shrimps that you can get for certain fish....they really love em. But i don't think meat's a necessity. Mine don't get it _that_ often, but they do have at least a dog biscuit a day each, just cos they go crazy for them.

Only thing i've found that mine aren't too keen on is ham...has anyone else found this?


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

Never tried ham with my furkids, but they all loved the leftover meat pie from my supper tonight. Generally they get some of whatever I eat as long as it doesn't contain anything that could be harmful to them. A big (but very messy) hit is spagetti! It's all about trying different things and finding out what your girl(s) enjoy. Every rat is different.

Cayden, a popular treat for most rats are Yogurt Drops that you can pick up at almost any petstore. They can be marketed for hamsters, g. pigs, mice or rats, but they're all really the same thing. My girls go nuts for them.


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## Cayden (Mar 26, 2007)

Update- forced socialization is seeming to help even though its not been that long. she comes out to see me when i get home, and i think i even heard her grinding her teeth which i hear is a good thing. also she took a pice of total from my hands. 

Also I am feeding her that mix now, but she only seems to be eating the total in the mix, hopefully she will try the rest.

And last I am emailing a fiew breeders in the area to try and find her a friend. knowing that i will need a new cage for when i finaly get to the point of putting them in the same cage I was thinking about to start building one of these
http://www.dapper.com.au/cagebuild.htm
I would make it scaled down a bit being I only have 2


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

I loved my grotto cage . I have a few suggestions though, first use the melamine and lay down linolium tiles above that, and second, always make it as big as you can afford . Trust me GGMR (gotta get more rats!) will hit you and you'll be angry at yourself for not mkaing it bigger . 

Glad to hear she's starting to come around . She sounds like a total doll!


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

I'm glad she is warming up! Yeah I love my boys though, and they are great lap and shoulder pets. Maybe you could also look into getting a neutered boy as a friend for her. A rat adoption center nearby neuters all their males and many of their females. You could see if you have a rat adoption center near with neutered males if you want a lap rat as well.


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## Cayden (Mar 26, 2007)

Uggh... Stupid NIRO show is going on in my area, so almost every breeder is not breeding because of a quarantine rule of the show. I am trying as hard as i can to get Rita a pal, but they are not making it easy :-(


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

Oh man, you should totally go to NIRO! I would so be there if I were closer! Also, are there ever rats for adoption available there? It might be worth a pop in to see .


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## lizzydeztic (Mar 15, 2007)

i dunno about the comment that petsmart only sells males....i bought my two girls from there, my friend bought her girl from there. and whenever i go in they only have females. i wanted males at first but couldn't find any at any of the petsmarts i visited.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

Lizzy, it depends on what Petsmart you go to. Some only sell males, some only females. What he was saying was that the store nearest him only had males .


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## LizLovesRats5 (Mar 28, 2007)

I would definately try to get a neutered male from a rescue. I just adopted two to live with my 3 females and they are the sweetest!


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## Cayden (Mar 26, 2007)

Reach, no there is no adoption allowed at NIRO. you can only bring rats that people have already adopted and are just bringing them there to give to them. if you bring any extra rats that you dident already specify to them you can get kicked out of their association, and every breeder going there is sold out :-( but i will keep trying.


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

A little late, but, here..

-Some form of 'house' or hideaway
-full to half-full waterbottle(it has to be a hanging one)
-Full to half-full food bowl with lab block(most petstores won't make a blend there in the store)
-some form of exercise(wheel, namely, perferrably solid-surface wheel)
-Moderately clean walls(a little dirt in the corners is expected, olmost, but it's a great plus for me if it's absolutely clean)
-paper pulp bedding or aspen(cornncob grows molds when moist, and everyone knows what the cons are to other beddings)
-animals seem to be active, healthy, and curious about you(at least the rats should be; I'm not up on my hamster, gerbil and guinea pig knowledge)


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## tasha (Oct 16, 2006)

I realize I got in a bit late on the Petco thing but I want to say MY Petco is awesome. lol if anyone wants the full story I am glad to tell you.
Also my Petco let us reach right in and grab any and every rat we wanted to touch, maybe they're just negligent LOL but they never said anything to us about filling out paperwork. I would have been disappointed, not getting to pick my own rat by holding it first.


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

Could you go back and get her a cheeky side kik, maybe she fed up and scared on her own? My Poppy was very shy but Lola was allways first to get into something, Poppy learned to follow and now therea great double act, Poppy has the brains and Lola has the inclination to run reallly fast without knowing were shes going! As for bites, i got my first propper bite today moving Poppy to there big new cage, before that the bites have been "tasting" my fingers to see what it is or if its edible! I feel really upset she proper bit me, she didnt get any cuddles. i hope her new house makes up for getting moved 
http://www.ratrehome.co.uk/ this guys website get me some confidence with Rattie things. good luck


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

sorry i just read some more posts-more complicated than popping down to the pet shop!


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

Hey Cayden, I noticed that you had some confusion over diet, so I figured I might try to help you out.

Everyone's Suebee's mix is different, but the basic ingredients remain the same: whole grain cereals, dehydrated/freeze-dried fruits and veggies, wheat pasta, etc. Some of my favorite cereals to use are Kashi 7-grain mix, Uncle Sam's (I love this because it has flaxseed, a natural source of Omega 3's) and Total. And Gerber makes a terrific line of freeze-dried bite size fruit for toddlers. 

The Suebee's is to be given as a supplement though, not as their staple diet. For that you want to use a lab block or a high quality, low-protein dog food (such as Innova, Wellness or Nutro). Since you've got a Petco nearby, though, it'd be super easy for you to pick up Mazuri lab blocks. 

Hope that helps.


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