# Babies ready any week now..



## wispy_wiskers_rattery (Jan 4, 2008)

Ok this is another tale of the dumb pet store here that I work at not showing any love toward ratties. I was working and this lady came in told me that her daughter's rat had babies about 3 weeks ago and wanted to bring the mom and babies in to dispose of them.  :x I took one look at the babies and the frightened mom and was smitten. I ended up paying close to 30.00 for all 15 babies and momma. But it was soooo worth it. Here's the pictures. 




















Does anyone know what kind of ratties they are.. I mean their markings and colors? The mom looks to me a dumbo.. 
Thanks,


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Do you have individual photos?

You'll have to part them male/female at 5 weeks.


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## wispy_wiskers_rattery (Jan 4, 2008)

Ok how do I do that I don't know whats male or female? That'll be 15 pictures lol but I think I thank I can do that. :wink:


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

Wow, so beautiful markings in the litter, but I would be very watchful for signs of megacolon. You have alot of babies who look like high whites .

So, are you a breeder? Taking in a accidental litter doesn't make you a rattery . The term rattery is reserved for people who are established breeders who have studied under a mentor and have pedigreed rats as their breeding stock. 

Whatever the case, good for you for taking in the mom and babies. It looks like you have alot of variegateds, atleast one self or berskire, and a few hoodeds. As for colors, you have some blacks, but I can't tell what the lighter ones are without some clearer pictures.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Here's a good website for sexing young rats: http://www.ratz.co.uk/sexingrats.html


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## wispy_wiskers_rattery (Jan 4, 2008)

Yeah I've had a mentor before just haven't had rats in awhile. I got back into raising rats about 6 months ago. and then this momma and babies stole my heart away.

How can you tell high white I don't know what that means. Thanks for the info.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Perhaps you need to contact your mentor again, they could certainly assist with any issues.

Here's a good spot on megacolon: http://ratguide.com/health/digestive/megacolon.php

As it says, signs of High White are BEW (black-eyed white), husky, blazed, split-capped, tei-colored, odd-eyed, and other.


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## wispy_wiskers_rattery (Jan 4, 2008)

But what does high white have to do with that? Is it the genetics?


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

wispy_wiskers_rattery said:


> But what does high white have to do with that? Is it the genetics?


Yes. Although you can have megacolon in a rat that does not display high white, it will often have high white background in its ancestory.

There's also acquired megacolon, but that usually involves the rat eating something which leads to a blockage.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

I would say that if you are concidering breeding rats at all you should do some serious research. Megacolon and high whites are pretty common terms that any respectable mentor would cover. Also, I have to admit that I find it concerning that you can't clearly tell if the mother is dumbo, or what the markings or colors are on any of the babies.

These all raise red flags to me, and suggest you haven't put the research or time into studying genetics at all.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

I would say that you need to find a much more educated mentor if you were under their training & have not yet learned what megacolon is, can't identify an adult's ear placement or even how to properly sex males from females. 

Since you have no clue on either it might be best to hold off on any breeding as well as promotion of being a breeder/rattery

Ok, since you have no idea what the background is on Mom or Dad these babies are mystery stew/pot luck babies & there is no telling what you have going on with them. The lighter colored ones could be anything from Blue to various shades of diluted black. Could you provide a photo of Mom?

I would very strongly suggest you never allow any of these babies to breed or become pregnant because one, you have no idea what is going on in their genetics & two, they do appear to be strong candidates for potential megacolon... which for your information is an often fatal condition. Though there are specialized diets created in order to prolong their life can anyone honestly say the effected rat has any real quality of life with a condition that is most likely very painful. 

Here is a very informative article about this condition... read it & watch for any symptoms. 
http://ratguide.com/health/digestive/megacolon.php


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## wispy_wiskers_rattery (Jan 4, 2008)

Ok I didn't breed these rats myself. I saved them from being snake food. I know a lot more about rats then you think I do. Just I haven't have rats in a long time I need a refresher coarse. I know the difference between top ear and dumbo ear. Now that I look at the pictures I remember which is male and which is female. When I had rats a while back we didn't know about megacolon or even about high white. 

Sorry but one qustion? Is this how you treat everyone that comes on here that's new? I came on here asking some questions and instead you all yell at me for something I didn't do or didn't know about. Yes I had a rattery at one time. Like I said I needed a refresher. 

Sorry if I don't know the colors on them. There so many colors and most of them are made up colors I'm sure. Markings is also a term thrown around loosely. All I did was save the mother and littler from being snake food and was looking for homes for them. As far as I know right now they are all healthy as can be. I'm taking them to the vet here in the next few days. Sorry if I ruffled some feathers so to speak.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

no ruffled feathers here... all this is just words on a screen at the end of the day

But I would like to express a few thoughts on what you have done (granted, maybe unknowingly) & why it is a slap to the face of people who are Breeders & operators of current ratteries. This something they great pride & very special care in achieving... being a proper breeder & being recognized as running a proper rattery is no small task. 

I'm speaking totally from an outsider's opinion because I am neither a breeder nor a rattery. I just know that those who are this follow very strict guidelines that did not just crop up over night. Terms that are used & for the most part, universally recognized here in the US, the UK & abroad... even as far away as Australia & Japan are not made up words that are tossed around loosely. There might be some slight shade variations because they are working with entirely different gene stock & maybe a spot on the belly is recognized as a spot on the chest but for the most part everyone follows the same code. 

Those who actually have the ability to go to shows & who have bred show quality rats will tell you straight up... the colors, the markings & all other standards are very legitimate & very well documented on many areas of the net & by organizations that have been formed for many years now. They take great pride in their well documented pedigrees that are often also documented with the NARR (here in the US)

So you may want to rethink your promotion of self as you did to a world of people who are in the know & save the claims for those who are not if that is what makes you feel good at the end of the day. You will find this board to be extremely supportive & helpful to all so long as respect is offered upfront & foremost. 

I believe that all anyone would ask of you is to at least understand this stand I explained above about the very small & rather exclusive breeder community & why they are so few & why it is rather difficult to reach that claim. These people dedicate many years of their life to their craft, their labor of love & they are very selective about who they would recognize as having that same dedication to when considering them for a chance to learn from their vast experience. 

Can you see why some of the members may take offense to someone who has claims such as you entered with even if by screen name alone & then return to discredit the standards that they all hold in such high regard by saying "they nothing but a thang!" (well those are my words but y'all know what I mean.)

I wish you all the best with your rats & I would be happy to help answer any & all questions you might have about them or help to figure out any concerns that might arise but then again... I would just be some pet owner trying to help re-educate a mentored & experienced former breeder & operator of a rattery. Would my 25 years of being a rat Mommy really be of assistance when I have had absolutely no formal training such as you have had?

*So does my ability to help with this win me any points of gaining favor with one of our respected breeders out there? You know, maybe earn me an honorary mentorship??


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## wispy_wiskers_rattery (Jan 4, 2008)

Ok thanks for the info.


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

You edited your post as I typed, but I'll keep it as-is anyway. 

No, not everyone starts with pet store rats. In fact, it's becoming more and more popular to either rescue rats from a rescue or shelter (much to my happiness!), or adopt from an *established* breeder. I've had many first-time rat owners become rat parents recently by adopting from us.

It is a bit concerning to see "Whispy Wiskers Rattery" and "Owner or WWR", and then see questions such as, "I just don't get the pedigree part?". As Julia explained, breeders are proud of the guidelines they follow, the education and experience, etc.

Anyone can call themselves a breeder/rattery, but not everyone can live up to the expectations. Many... most, perhaps... breeders don't label themselves as such, until they've mentored a good long while with an established breeder.

So I suppose, the problem here that people are seeing is...

You say you run a rattery.
You don't know how to sex animals (or, you say, you forgot).
You don't know the basics of genetics.
You don't know anything about high whites.
You've never heard about megacolon.
You don't understand pedigrees.
You insult breeders who've worked hard to remove all traces of pet store rats in their lines.
You seem to believe DISCOURAGING (which is not bashing) pet store rats being bred is something negative.

And yet, you, again, label yourself as a rattery, and claim you've been mentored. And, I'll take a leap and assume, you've bred rats before?

Can I ask what rattery mentored you?

Here's the thing in the rat community, that's VITAL to remember for all breeders and rescues alike:

The rat community, is pretty close-knit. The same people travel in the same circles. People talk. If you're not legit... It's found out. If you're doing something you shouldn't be (breeding pet store rats, for example), you're found out. You won't last long. Word travels so fast.

So how you present yourself in the "rat world" is pretty important. Especially first impressions. Your first impression here... Was a bit suspicious.

Now... The rats are adorable, I'm sure you'll have no trouble placing them. It's admirable that you took them in. Crazy that you paid for them, though.  However, having dealt with megacolon myself in a surrendered litter, I hope you don't have to deal with it.


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## Nenn (Nov 13, 2007)

Not trying to offend anyone.. but how can someone forget how to sex animals.. I mean... The balls dont dissapear anywhere on males o.o or how can someone forget males got balls? I can say that the balls are VERY visible on males... atleast on my boys.. theyre gigantic O_O

Sorry


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## wispy_wiskers_rattery (Jan 4, 2008)

http://www.ratster.com/prefix.html

i was once on ratster.. there the link..


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Ratster is not NARR though.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

if you want to continue this thread for basic ethics in breeding and what not you are more then welcome, however any remarks made directly to wispy will not be answered as they have been banned-it was charlet_2007 trying to get back in after being banned for her suicide post


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