# Immersion Training the way to go?



## Labrador (May 8, 2017)

Hi guys,

I'm getting my first three ratties tomorrow. I've read about two conflicting methods of handling rats when you first get them: 1) putting them in the cage and leaving them along for a few days or 2) immersion training as soon as you get them home.

It seems that immersion training is the better way to go based on an older thread on this website. Is this method still considered the best, fastest way to get loving, trusting rats? If so, I have a couple of questions.

1) Should their be food and water out for the rats in the immersion area (likely my bathroom)?
2) What specific signs should I look for before ending the session and putting everyone into their cage?
3) Should I remove most hides and decorations from the cage for the first few days to encourage them to interact with me?
4) Do rattties ever just totally freeze and hide in a corner when immersion training (that's what I'm imagining for some reason!)? What do you do if this happens?
5) Can I work with all three of my new guys at once? If I do one at a time, where do I put the other two?

Thanks everyone. I'm so excited for my new babies and I want to do this right so everyone is happy, healthy, and comfortable!


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## InsideSunrise (Apr 28, 2017)

Honestly I don't like the immersion training idea but...
If they are particularly skittish, I wouldn't go for immersion training as it can just frighten them even more and make them associate you with fear.If, however, they seem ok to be around you then I don't see the problem with getting straight into it.

As for your questions:

1) I wouldn't leave food in the area when you do it, but I like to make a habit of always having water there. Though of course, giving them treats from your hand can only improve relations.
2) If they seem freaked out by the experience it's too soon.
3) I would leave in the things because it's unfair to take away the one thing that helps rats who are scared or bored.
4) That can happen, and if it does first try putting your hand nearby so they will come up and sniff it, therefore breaking the freeze. If they do it a lot they're not ready so put them back in the cage.
5)Yes, you can work with them all at once. Doing so can actually help as they may feel safe around one another. Also, if one is friendlier than the others they often become a role model and so aid the whole process.

Good luck!


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

I actually love immersion training, it's been the only thing that could help some of my more difficult little cases. We currently have a rat who is a year old and positive reinforcement is totally crucial to forming a bond but it's only when I take her out to hang out in my clothes and watch a movie with her for an hour or two that she made the biggest improvements. After a year of trying to entice her with a hands-off approach and seeing little progress and only a couple weeks of doing this she climbs on me and into my sleeve now, and even has the confidence to use the wheel which tbh I never imagined her doing. I think that certain rats won't understand that you won't hurt them until they realize that nothing bad happens when they come out with you... Even if my partner accidentally turned the vac on at the wrong time.  I think rats tend to be pretty resilient, it's amazing. Now, you don't want to be terrorizing the rat when you take them out, you still need to go in steps, but I've had nothing but success with it. Though, I tend not to think of just handling new rats as "immersion" I honestly just think of it as socialization... But when I'm holding a genuinely fearful rat who never quite made it to trusting for whatever reason, and I know it's not where they want to be but where they need to be, I more consider that immersion. I tend to feel that you can never spend too much time with new rats and that they benefit from every minute of exposure to you. I ride with my partner to get new rats, and I hold them and socialize them on the way home and they usually just fall asleep on me or in my sleeve and it really helps I think. Comparatively they always seemed to be worked up and nervous when I put them in a travel cage instead. I wouldn't have ever encouraged a couple of my scared-from-day-one rats to sleep on my lap and climb on my sleeve and greet me at the bars, if I had never taken the leap with it, and they would most likely have remained stressed into old age. But you should definitely smother them with treats and rewards when you socialize any rat, _especially_​ alongside immersion.


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

I actually took this video because I was so excited and amazed because she spent the whole first year of her life running from us, hiding in the corner and screaming when you tried to handle her. I took this after just a week of immersion sessions... She is just as eager to meet us as the others now! And she's actually napping with me right now. 

https://youtu.be/kLR-TtXz5oQ

She's the Burmese.

Anyways like I said since I've had so much success with immersion and hands on approaches to socialization I always support it.


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## Shadow <3 (Jan 25, 2017)

I believe that it depends on what you mean by "immersion training". Some of the things in that thread that I didn't like included the whole "being dominant" over your rat. I firmly believe that we, as larger animals, cannot "dominate" a rat, simply because rats know we aren't another rat, and they know that we're much larger and thus more powerful. But if by "immersion" you mean taking that rat out and placing it in your hoody/bathrobe for bonding sessions, than I say go for it! I'd suggest also doing trust training on the side, and using a liquid treat (my favorite is meat baby food) to entice the rat to come to you on their own. 

In the end, it all comes down to the time you spend interacting with your rats. The more time you spend together, the better you'll bond. But hopefully you'll get friendly rats from the start, and will be able to forgo any "taming" altogether.

(Note: When you get your rats home, you don't need to leave them alone in the cage for a few days! Even trust training doesn't recommend that! Instead, I'd let them settle inside the cage for maybe 30 minutes to an hour, and then try offering them a treat. If they take it, thats great! You probably got friendly rats, and positive interactions can start right away! If not, I would probably leave the rats alone till dusk, when they should be more awake. I'd then start taming them, and probably continue any sessions for a few hours if possible.)

As for your questions:
1). I'd have water available during free-range, but not food. This way, your treats will be more enticing.
2) As I don't really recommend that type of immersion, I'd just say look for signs that the rats aren't freaking out (such as being inquisitive, or jumping around your body )
3) I'd say keep at least one hiding spot that you don't disturb. As prey animals, rats need to have a safe spot. However, if you "bathrobe/hoody" train them first (i.e., let them crawl around in your hoody/bathrobe until they treat it as a "safe spot"), you could forgo these hiding places. But if you do this, don't be surprised if the rats don't want to explore much, or if they only stick to the walls.
4) I did try "immersion" with my most skittish girl right from the beginning, and yes, she froze. She super freaked out, and even peed and pooped all over herself  But I was being cruel, and forcing her to sit in the exposed area on my lap. To prevent this, first hoody/bathrobe train your rats, and let them enter the area when scared.
5) I suggest working with all 3 at once. This way, the more confident rats will encourage the less confident ones to interact with you. Rats copy each other, and I actually taught 2 of my girls to come when called just by calling my other rat (who already knew the command) in front of them.

Good luck with your new babies! I know it seems like everyone has different advise, but don't worry, you'll figure out a method that works for you


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

Eww ya, definitely don't do any weird "alpha" stuff, dominance theory is so archaic and destructive in any species and will just break your rats trust in you. Positive reinforcement and socialization and immersion with fearful rats is effective for raising well adjusted rats. Handling should always be done very gently and respectfully! Never push your rat around thinking it's "seeing who's boss" that's just silly. Of course, immersion is completely unrelated to dominance theory but I do remember seeing that thread... Hopefully people don't get the idea that they go hand in hand.


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## Nieve5552 (May 20, 2014)

I personally think immersion is more effective than the other method. I never saw immersion as 'asserting dominance', but more like spending a length of time with the rat to form a bond. The most ideal ending to an immersion session is the rat snuggling up and falling asleep on you. This comes from the theory that when stranger rats first meet, they explore each other and after a while, they would snuggle together to form/reestablish rat-rat bond. The time it takes to reach this point would vary hugely depending on the rats personality, age, genetics, background (past experiences with humans) as well as the human's rat handling methods and the environment. When i got my second pair of rats i did immersion in the bathroom as soon as i got them home. They were young and not very skittish right from the beginning, so it took less than an hour for them to fall asleep on me (i also did immersion separately with each because i didnt get them on the same day). I would definitely recommend doing the first session with all three rats together, as they will be reassured by each others presence as well as be egged on by each other, or become more outgoing by competing for treats. If youre doing immersion in the bathroom, you should be leaving hides & decorations in their cage because when they're in the cage while not in an immersion session, theres no reason for them to not have hides.. unless youre going to be sitting in their cage with them for immersion.
I think it helps to wear some loose clothing, or have a spare scrunched up towel/fleece that you can put on yourself, as rats love digging/tunneling through. They'd also see it as a hiding spot, and if the hiding spot ends up being on you, when they hide from a sudden noise etc they will be smelling you, which will result in them forming positive connections between you and safety.


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## RattyMomma1 (Apr 13, 2017)

I know a lot of people won't agree with me but I have to say immersion training 100 percent!!!!! I have 6 ratties now and that's the only way I've gotten my most skittish ratties to come around! I've read that rats can't sustain fear for longer than a half an hour and I have noticed the same to be true with my ratties, so I suggest that when you get your babies out ... keep them out for longer than a half an hour. 

I use a robe belted at the waist. And at first, I had to grab out my girls because they wouldn't just come right to me .. but I would get my girls all out and stuff them right into my robe. They sniff around and walk around in there and when they get comfortable in there, they start to bathe themselves, or stick their heads out and check out the rest of the world lol. But then I take myself geared up in my robe with all of my girls into the play area (I have about a 4 by 6 area of my bedroom blocked off for them to play in) and sit myself down on the floor. Once my girls would get bored of the robe and want to brave the play area, they would all start to come out of the robe and check stuff out. They would either run to the nearest box or tunnel or run back into my robe because they were skittish and wanted to be hidden. But again no matter how scared or skittish they were, after about 20 minutes .. they pretty much would end up using me as their jungle gym. And if you pay attention, you can tell when they have had enough and wanna go back to their cage. My girls usually will all congregate back into the robe and either fall asleep, or climb up to the top of my head and try to make a leap out of the play area ... and I would figure it's time to get them back into their cage. And of course I gave them a yummie treat when I put them back into their cage.

After a few days of doing that about twice or three times a day, all of my ratties have been ready to roll when I came up to the cage with my robe on. Lol. 

I had the worst time with one of my older girls .. I had her for about a year and she would NOT come to me EVER! I would have to use a blanket and throw it over her to get her out of the cage for vet visits or to get her into the play area with her sister because she would not come to me on her own. And when I got 2 more baby girls who were super friendly, I started using the robe and immersion training on them and figured I would try it on my older girl also. And like I said after a few days, she would come right to the edge of the cage and climb right into the robe .. and I didn't have to lure her with treats or anything!!

Just spend as much time with them as you can. And make sure to spend longer than that half an hour with them each time you get them out until they get used to you, because you will definitely notice a difference as soon as they are not scared anymore. 

I just got 2 new baby boys three days ago and have been using the robe and play area technique on them, and they are already running right up to the cage door when I open it!!! And today I actually put them both up on my shoulder and I had them with me for about an hour and they seemed to love it!! They were just sniffing and hanging out, and when they found the hood of my sweatshirt, they climbed in and both took a little rat nap. Lol. 

I found that the immersion technique seemed to work better, faster, and even worked on my most antisocial rat. And once you can get them to take treats from you, bribe them with treats every chance you get. Lol. Sometimes they won't take treats from you at first ... and in that case I use yogurt or applesauce on my finger so they have to come close to me and lick it off. One thing is for sure, the fastest way to their little hearts is their little stomachs!!!

Whatever technique you use, your ratties will eventually get used to you and come around. Good luck with them and please keep us posted!!!!!


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## Shadow <3 (Jan 25, 2017)

See, I never called the "bathrobe/hoody" method immersion. When I read the sticky for immersion, it seemed to talk more about weird dominance things. But if your immersion refers to the bathrobe/hoody and free-range method, then that's exactly what I do as well. I also give treats which the rats in my clothes (lol), and like you said, they really learn to love coming out super fast. In the end, it just chalks up to spending time with your rats on you/interacting with you.


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## RattyMomma1 (Apr 13, 2017)

I guess I never really read through the immersion technique all the way or something because I totally missed the whole dominating your rats thing. Lol. But yea I agree, in the end the more time you spend with them and the more treats you give them the faster they trust and love you. And that whole half an hour fear thing seems to be totally accurate as far as I can tell. Because no matter how scared they are after about 20 mins or so, they totally forget they were scared and turn into totally different ratties!!!! Lmao


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## Shadow <3 (Jan 25, 2017)

I believe it said to dominate aggressive rats by flipping them over, and to be more gentle with scared rats. I wasn't sure what to make of that, which is why I never really liked the post. 

The 20 minutes things seems to work for most rats, although I will say that my first skittish girl would sit in your hoody/lap for hours, just frozen and trembling. I literally had her out for ~1.5-2 hours while I free-ranged her friendly sister, and whenever I touched her, she'd squeak and pee and poop herself  She was probably a very extreme case, as she never totally warmed up to me, and she wouldn't even come out of hiding if other people were nearby. With her, I just continued this forced socialization for a few weeks, and she gradually got better, eventually even accepting treats. All my other girls warmed up after their first free-range with me, so I guess Sonic (my ultra skittish girl) was just a very skittish girl.


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