# I should've went with my gut!



## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

So, I got Hershey's about a bit more than a week ago...we chose her and paid convinced she was a girl...final sale and then at the pet shop they told me it was a little boy....I was like... HUH? because I couldn't see no balls, and was sure I had female genitalia in front of me...But they ASSURED me it was a little boy! So, instead of risking it and putting him with the girls, and he'd get 2 of my girls pregnant, I decided let's put him with boubou...I did a horrible thing because i was stuck with this little guy and had no more isolation cage...i had to risk it and do sprint introductions and hope for the best...I was surprised at how easy boubou accepted a new guy in his cage but I thought, well, he's been alone and sad for a while since furby died...

I was then away from home for a few days because of work. And I started slowly doubting...I thought maybe he is just really young, just bigger than usual...Well no...my gut feeling was right...Hershey's is a girl. So i am 99% convinced she is pregnant, because first she was with males in the pet shop, and second she has been with my big horny male for the last week....

I am gonna buy a tank from a guy on kijiji soon so i can put her in it to have the babies...right now I am just confused as I was not ready for it...but I keep reading about it and am ready to help this tiny girl the most I can through that process...

I was wondering if you guys had any tips for me...
And when will I know for sure that she is gonna give birth in a few days ?


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## evander (Jun 30, 2013)

Assume she is pregnant and increase her protein. Assume she got pregnant at the pet shop. Put her in a large tank by herself with plenty of nice soft bedding and nesting material.

How old is she?

Give her lots of attention and slowly give her some free range time with the other girls.

Hopefully she is not pregnant but if she is nature will take care of the rest.


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

I believe she is between 6-8 weeks old... :S what can I give her to increase her protein without it being too much ?


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

Okay so...when will I know for sure she is pregnant ? I mean she's getting rounder but not like she swallowed a tennis ball like some of you mention. If she got pregnant by boubou monday would be her 2 weeks in. If at the pet shop I can't tell ! I noticed before that when boubou would wanna mate she would reject him . Like, after she got pregnant, if pregnant she is.. and also the person on kijiji let me down, so i'm gonna have to use a wire cage, any ideas how to modify it for it to be safe to the pups ?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

You'd have to affix a solid material, coroplast, flooring, maybe cardboard. 


A male will not attempt to mate with a pregnant doe to my knowledge. Mine didn't. Rather he will try to kill the babies inside so he can have his own. 
21 days from your purchase date if no babies she's in the clear. 


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

I don't understand what you mean by " Rather he will try to kill the babies inside so he can have his own. " you mean as if the babies were already in there? but It could be his! and he attempted like before while they were together.. what should i use to fix it with? i dont want the pups getting stuck of something they could munch on eventually and that would hurt them... I am so new to pups!


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

For the first two weeks you only have to worry about a pup wiggling out the nest and getting caught in the wire. So long as the bottom is about 5inches deep there is little cause for concern. After the second week has passed their eyes will open and they will be much more active, learning to run and climb. 
So to secure the cage against young pups I suggest using something solid. If you could get something stronger than cardboard you could drill holes in the material and use cable ties (zip ties) to hold it on. Make sure if you pick cardboard you watch for mama chewing it up and that the bar spacing on the wire cage is 1/4in or less (If you are metric 1in=2.54cm). 


And if he hasn't mated with the female but recognized pregnancy he would have been a bit aggressive with her as to terminate her pregnancy so he could mate with her. He also would have been very pushy to get her to go into heat. 


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

okay, thanks a lot  i mean he wasnt agressive there were little fuss but it's more of a ``who are you? why are we in the same cage`` i'd think


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I hope no babies pop out  make sure before week 5 you separate babies !


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

I mean whatever happens i just wish she is okay through it all  I will make sure to separate them no more litters lol!


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

You could put her in a tank for her "maternity cage" I you live near a petco I believe the dollar per gallon sale is still going on


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

If you get a tank, it still needs to offer 12in x12 x 12 at least. 


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

I don't have any petco in montreal ...which is a shame... the pet shops here are....blah... everything is so overly pricey !! when I go in plattsburgh in petsmart I find stuff to be so cheap but I can't cross the borders then...I wanted to get a CN it's so cheap over there! Anyways...

Hershey's is getting a little bigger but not big round ball...could she still be pregnant of a small litter and show little to no round belly?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

My girl didn't get a round shape until just about when she popped. We had 14 babies (but one died).
View attachment 79938
This is her about a week before she gave birth.


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## TexasRatties (Jun 2, 2013)

Oh goodness sorry that happened. So she could be 17 days now if boubou got her pregnant or more if she got pregnant before then. I don't have rat mating knowledge but dogs and horses do that when they are pregnant they will reject the male if she is pregnant. I would separate if you haven't yet.


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

Oh wow... Yeah okay....I'm starting to ask around if people would be interested (when the pups are ready !) but I didn't get many answers and so I'm hoping for a small liter ! I do not want any pups ending up as snake food... So far there's only my aunt taking two little girls...(assuming I have them) I could keep some but not many...! We will see soon I guess!


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

They are separated. Boubou is so sad now tho...he misses hersheys  She'd be 14 if boubou got her pregnant I got her on the 9th.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Are you getting Boubou neutered? If so, doing it now will speed up the reuniting.

The forum is a great place to ask around, also look for Rat Groups on facebook in your area. I will warn you, of 13 kits I elected to keep four (they were too shy to rehome on good conscious), and rehomed 5 at their proper time. This means I have four more rats than I want.


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

I don't know yet if I'll get him neutered... I could it would be really cool for them to be together. But i'm not a 100 percent sure...wouldn't it be a traumatizing experience for him? I've never had a rat neutered..
And I didn't see anybody else from montreal on the forum


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I got my male neutered. The only bad day from it was the day he came home (the day of the neuter and drop off too). He was still on the anesthetic so he was grumpy and sleepy and not to be bothered. Otherwise he is still hyper friendly and squishy. He also got to be with the girl and her babies earlier than never. If not, you'll have to wait til mama stops nursing in week five an have three cages, mama an daughters, sons, and him until they are big enough to do intros safely. 


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

day number 20 since I got her... still no signs of pregnancy...She could've gotten pregnant a few days in..She is nesting, but not frantically. She's getting a bit bigger but not round. she's still energetic, not getting skittish or anything. 
She had been with Boubou for a minimum of 10 days, could she NOT be pregnant after all? That would be really surprising !! But who knows...


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

Her belly is not hard. I would simply not see how she could not be pregnant...! Could that be possible? She hasn't been in heat since too. My girlfriend bets me she is not pregnant....


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

It is possible if they are young enough. Otherwise it's not really likely that she isn't. She might've reabsorbed though if she doesn't burst. Assume her fifth day in to be the day she conceived and count from there to be safe. 


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

What does a reabsorbing look like ???


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Nothing much to my knowledge. The mother simply stops making a baby and is no longer pregnant. I'd tell you to check for heat but in five days if she hasn't popped she likely won't be. 


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

Okay.... Well she hasn't come in heat ever since tho... so basically tomorrow is gonna be day 21 so up to day 26 max 29 if nothing it's most likely she reabsorbed ???


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Yes. Unless she continues to grow round you shouldn't be concerned. Day 26 is the limit. 

What signs of heat have you been watching for?


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

well when she was in heat like the first night we got her she was like my other girls, really hyper, hypersensitive to touch and ears vibrating, back arching, etc..


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Rats don't always show signs of going into heat that way. Have you been checking her vaginal opening?


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

well everytime i take her I check her belly and see her vag it never seemed really open more than usual...also, she does'nt react to my male's scent like if i take him and then don't wash my hands and go in her cage she doesn't go crazy smelling like my other girls do.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

She might be pregnant. Unfortunately not all rats show any signs. You said her belly wasn't firm; when you hold it is she upset or can you feel anything ? Dot prod or squeeze mind you. 


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

I can't really feel anything but i don't push or anything i don't wanna hurt her...whenever i grab her she squirms out....but that's just normal rat behaviour.


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

So I wake up this morning and get her out for awhile...she looks a bit rounder and her belly seems firmer... What the fudge?? Could those changes have happen over night?? I'm confused...Maybe it is simply my imagination...


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Yes, literally overnight. My girl a week before bursting didn't look it. Then BAM, she was round. Within days kits came.


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## TexasRatties (Jun 2, 2013)

She could be pregnant it doesn't always show until soon into labor.


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

WOW. Okay... I thought it was progressive. I mean...She doesn't have the looks-like-she-swallowed-a-tennis-ball belly, but is rounder and her belly is firmer than yesterday!


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I thought it was too and took her round the vet. No belly no way to be sure then BAM belly. And she had 14 kits. 


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

woow ! yeah i'm starting to anticipate a lot of babes !! Anything specific i could do to make her more comfortable before the birth??
2


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Keep her dark and warm --cover the cage partially. Keep it quiet and try not to peer in too much. Make sure to have soy formula or kittens milk on hand. 


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

the milk in case she doesn't feed em properly right ? I work at walmart so I'll get some. from what day should I handle the babies ? I read from day one if she lets me but i'm not sure...I want them to be as much used to humans as I can.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I handled them from day two --counting the night they are born as day one of course. I would've done day one but I wanted her stress levels down. 
Handle them for just minutes --add one to the number of days they are and that is as long as you can handle them at certain times up through the second week. So at eight days, hold them for around nine minutes. This is also mommas only time to get out the cage so try to do it twice daily. If you've other rats she is goin to live with, it might be worth letting her play with them (away from nest). 
As with infants, keep them warm and safe. Wash before and after. Pet mama before handling the babies just as a matter of comfort. 


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

I have to say nanashi7, thanks a lot. You are really helping me throughout the process and since I know nothing about pregnancy and all it is nice to know there are people out there to help me...And I know nanashi7 is not the only one who helped me, but I wanted to thank her personally 

I'll keep updating you guys if about the pups and all and I'll probably have many more questions.


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

Looking at her again today...she did not get bigger last night...Will she get BAM big all of a sudden or could she give birth without developing a giant belly? I'm in doubts and questions right now!


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Yes she can give birth without a belly. Without any signs really. It shouldn't be long now before we know what's what I know the waiting can kill haha

And you're welcome. I'm passing along the good karma since the forum helped me 


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

Okay, so, tonight, me and my girlfriend found Hersheys was acting very distant and barely moving. All evening...not licking anymore, nothing. So we thought tonight is the night. Right now, I just walked my girlfriend to her car since she parks far and it's pretty late...Right before leaving the house hershey's was on top of her nest she made, barely moving and not responding to us. We leave, now I come back to the house and she's back in the top hammock...now i did give her a hammock for awhile since she loved it but now that I feel tonight she could give birth should i take it out? I'm worried if she decides to give birth in the hammock the pups are gonna wiggle out...! but if she didnt nest there would she give birth there ?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

She could give birth outside the nest, then relocate them to her nest. Mine did. Definitely take the hammock out. What ended up happening? You should probably take her to the vet if she shows all the signs of pregnancy but hasn't popped by tonight (the 4th)


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

I woke up all excited today to see nothing at all. 
Mumbl..
She did not get bigger nor did her belly get firmer. I read that apparently you could feel the pups skulls but i feel nothing...
Maybe she reabsorbed after all and just didnt want our love yesterday...


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Be careful, because it might've been lethargy which is usually indicative of an illness.


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## boufurfio (Sep 14, 2013)

hmm I get what you mean... But this morning she is all happy again ! If I see that behaviour again without pups I will assume it is and bring her to the vet.


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