# Stir crazy?



## JCM (Mar 8, 2015)

My rat goes stir crazy every time I put her back in her cage after play time.
Currently with school, I can only spend 15 minutes or so playing with her, and I cannot get another rat (dad's rules, not mine).
She lives in a single CN, so her cage is plenty big. Normally I would just think it was because she's lonely, but she's only started this behavior recently (Since I've upped her from just feeding her, giving her water, and a few pets to now doing that + 10-20 min. of play time)
Any reason why giving her play time would cause her to lose her little ratty mind when I close up her cage for the night?


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## Jackie (Jan 31, 2013)

We also might need more info. Like define stir crazy as what? Running around all over?

I don't have a good explanation besides that sometimes after I take my dog for his first walk in the morning because he is energized and happy he gets really crazy and zooms around for a minute before plopping down like the lazy lump he usually is... haha! Maybe she is energized from the play time?


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

Well 15 mins is just not a lot of time and being a single rat she is going to be super lonely  rats are very social animals. She is going to be antsy because she isn't ready to be put back in the cage and is sad/lonely/bored.

Honestly I'd first try explaining that to your dad and try to talk him into letting u get her a friend.

Secondly try to rat proof your room and let her out while u r doing homework or just hanging out in your room. Whenever you are home I'd let her out to run around.


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## Mene (Mar 13, 2015)

I second moonkissed's suggestions. She needs a friend. Especially if you can't spend a lot of time with her, you should really get her a cage mate. With such a limited time out of her cage and a limited time with you, and being by herself, she will not grow into a happy, well adjusted rat.


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

No matter how much play time my rat got, she was always unhappy about going back in the cage and would always try to leap out of the doors the moment they opened. She just had too much energy, so I started taking her outside and in public to let her release some of that extra energy. It's called "Shoulder Ratting", theres a thread on it. Maybe if shes a lone rat you could take her with you more so she isnt alone that much?


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

Even so, 15 minutes is just not enough. Female rats are way more active than males, so that's pretty blah....
That's sad... I'd convince your father to allow you another rat as you can't spend time with her.

Rats can become severely depressed if they don't have another cage mate and are more prone to disease and could potentially die at a younger age.

Having 2 rats is pretty much the same thing, you're not going to need to make any changes, really..
But it would be in the best benefit of your rat.


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

JCM said:


> Any reason why giving her play time would cause her to lose her little ratty mind when I close up her cage for the night?


Because she wants to be out, adventuring. x) 
Would you want to be cooked up in a cage all day? Unless that's what you're into. lololol.


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## JCM (Mar 8, 2015)

Jackie said:


> We also might need more info. Like define stir crazy as what? Running around all over?
> 
> I don't have a good explanation besides that sometimes after I take my dog for his first walk in the morning because he is energized and happy he gets really crazy and zooms around for a minute before plopping down like the lazy lump he usually is... haha! Maybe she is energized from the play time?


 Yeah she runs around and tries to break out (she can't, but she still tries)


moonkissed said:


> Well 15 mins is just not a lot of time and being a single rat she is going to be super lonely  rats are very social animals. She is going to be antsy because she isn't ready to be put back in the cage and is sad/lonely/bored.
> 
> Honestly I'd first try explaining that to your dad and try to talk him into letting u get her a friend.
> 
> Secondly try to rat proof your room and let her out while u r doing homework or just hanging out in your room. Whenever you are home I'd let her out to run around.





Mene said:


> I second moonkissed's suggestions. She needs a friend. Especially if you can't spend a lot of time with her, you should really get her a cage mate. With such a limited time out of her cage and a limited time with you, and being by herself, she will not grow into a happy, well adjusted rat.


 I know she needs a friend, but my dad will *not *let me. I have explained it to him, but every time I bring it up, he gets really mad and threatens to rehome her. So I can't do anything on that front. 
I am trying to provide her with as much play time as possible, but when your two semesters behind in math with 33 days left of school..... well.....


ksaxton said:


> No matter how much play time my rat got, she was always unhappy about going back in the cage and would always try to leap out of the doors the moment they opened. She just had too much energy, so I started taking her outside and in public to let her release some of that extra energy. It's called "Shoulder Ratting", theres a thread on it. Maybe if shes a lone rat you could take her with you more so she isnt alone that much?


 I can't take her to school, obviously (Well I could, but the teachers wouldn't be happy with me XD)
However she is a natural shoulder rat--I could see how she did on a walk (after I get her the harness I've been eying up)


AdequateRat said:


> Even so, 15 minutes is just not enough. Female rats are way more active than males, so that's pretty blah....
> That's sad... I'd convince your father to allow you another rat as you can't spend time with her.
> 
> Rats can become severely depressed if they don't have another cage mate and are more prone to disease and could potentially die at a younger age.
> ...


Like I said, dad says no to more rats


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## Kuildeous (Dec 26, 2014)

Ouch, that's not a fun position to be in. 

You may have to address an uncomfortable fact: You might not be ready to care for rats right now. School is very important, and you are right to not neglect school for your rat, but that may be depressing her. You may need to see if she can have a home with a companion. Do you have any friends who may be interested in caring for rats? Your friend could adopt your rat and a second rat from a store. That way your rat has a good home, and you can still see her when you visit your friend (school may be impacting your own social life, so this would be good for you too). 

I look at my oldest (and most dearest, let's be honest) rat and wonder what her life would be like without her cagemates. I think she'd get very bored and possibly depressed. Granted, my wife and I can spend more than 15 minute with her, but some days we cannot, so I'm glad she has companions during those times. 

And even when we do spend time with our rats, they immediately turn around when placed in their cage and are eager to come back out. So if those rats are excited for human play time, I can only imagine what your rat is going through. 

I dunno; maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion. I remember a friend in college with a single rat, but I don't remember how long that lasted. Maybe that rat got sick early and died. Maybe my friend realized he needed a buddy and rehomed him. But your rat craves attention, and life is simply in the way. Owning pets can be a luxury, and you may need to consider that it's a luxury you have to wait for. Not trying to be a downer here. 

It would certainly speak to your father about how sincere you were when you said your rat should have a buddy. If you're willing to give up the rat so that she can have a companion, then that emphasizes your conviction to have a healthy, happy rat.


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

I'm really sorry.. I really don't mean to come off as a jerk.
But, if you can't give her enough time and attention (especially because there's only ONE of her...)

Then re-homing her may be a better option.

Or how about your mom? Does she like rats? Can't you get her another buddy and have the cage there?

*Honestly, 15 minutes of "out" time is sincerely not enough.*
With groups of ratties you need at least an hour of outside cage time.

With just one? At least 4 hours... And ESPECIALLY if it's a female, they're super active.
There's also no way you're going to be able to bond with her properly if you're giving her lack of attention.

I understand that you're busy with school and things.. But, these type of animals need social interaction to blossom..

Once again, I'm sorry. I'm just kind of upset at that she's not getting enough out time.
I don't mean to be rude/offensive.

If your daily life doesn't suit your rat's (or any animals' needs) the humane thing to do is rehome them to a place where they can live a happy life.

I don't know, dude..


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

Solo rats can be done but being alone raises stress hormones which leads to increased risk of illnesses such as cancer. Studies show you can stop any stress response and hormone release through regular handling and environmental enrichment. Make sure she has a wheel and lots of toys. Try to make her environment different every time you clean her out by switching out toys and throwing in boxes and toilet tubes etc. When you have more time consider training her to do tricks to stimulate her mind. If you can't handle her for more than 15 mins can you not let her run around somewhere safe while you study, then interact with her for the 15 on top. That way shes out and entertained and you can still get on. ???


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

You have gotten lots of good advice "Stir Crazy" is the title of your thread, and "Stir Crazy" is probably an apt description of the way your little girl feels. She is in solitary confinement all day. Then you come and give her a wee taste of freedom and put her back in her prison. Would you react any differently? I wouldn't. I would go nuts. So do humans. So do rats. And, so does she. I'm sure you love her, but keeping her in this situation is not the best way to show her that. Think of what's best for her and find a way to do that.


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## Kuildeous (Dec 26, 2014)

Amph said:


> If you can't handle her for more than 15 mins can you not let her run around somewhere safe while you study, then interact with her for the 15 on top. That way shes out and entertained and you can still get on. ???


Or at the very least, get a rat hoodie (mine is already chewed through) and walk around with your rat when you're at home. I know you have school. What else is taking up the bulk of your time? If it's homework (and good on you for choosing homework), could you do homework with your rat in your hoodie? 

I still think the best solution is to find her a home until you can convince your dad to allow two rats (or you move out). Someone suggested keeping them at your mom's. Is that an option? That may mean going days without seeing them, but at least she'll have a companion 24 hours, and she'll still be glad to see you (plus…buddy!).


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

raindear said:


> You have gotten lots of good advice "Stir Crazy" is the title of your thread, and "Stir Crazy" is probably an apt description of the way your little girl feels. She is in solitary confinement all day. Then you come and give her a wee taste of freedom and put her back in her prison. Would you react any differently? I wouldn't. I would go nuts. So do humans. So do rats. And, so does she. I'm sure you love her, but keeping her in this situation is not the best way to show her that. Think of what's best for her and find a way to do that.


Amen to that.


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## JCM (Mar 8, 2015)

Kuildeous said:


> Ouch, that's not a fun position to be in.
> 
> You may have to address an uncomfortable fact: You might not be ready to care for rats right now. School is very important, and you are right to not neglect school for your rat, but that may be depressing her. You may need to see if she can have a home with a companion. Do you have any friends who may be interested in caring for rats? Your friend could adopt your rat and a second rat from a store. That way your rat has a good home, and you can still see her when you visit your friend (school may be impacting your own social life, so this would be good for you too).
> 
> ...


 My one friend is interested, but my rat would be dead in a week (lots of little kids who would love to introduce their cats to her!)
And my dad wants her gone, so saying anything like that would wind me up ratless.


AdequateRat said:


> I'm really sorry.. I really don't mean to come off as a jerk.
> But, if you can't give her enough time and attention (especially because there's only ONE of her...)
> 
> Then re-homing her may be a better option.
> ...


 My mom could take her an give her a friend.
/but/ my mom is afraid of playing with them, so they would sit in their cage 24/7.
My mom is 7 hours away--I come there every month for about 5 days.
So..... either she rots in a cage with a friend, or its me and solo.
Or I could trust a 100% stranger to bond her to a friend and take care of her, since thats worked out great for me in the past (_not. _My cat got rehomed, and he was starved and abused. He had to be put down he was that far gone. Sorry, don't really trust people with my babies since that incident.)


Amph said:


> Solo rats can be done but being alone raises stress hormones which leads to increased risk of illnesses such as cancer. Studies show you can stop any stress response and hormone release through regular handling and environmental enrichment. Make sure she has a wheel and lots of toys. Try to make her environment different every time you clean her out by switching out toys and throwing in boxes and toilet tubes etc. When you have more time consider training her to do tricks to stimulate her mind. If you can't handle her for more than 15 mins can you not let her run around somewhere safe while you study, then interact with her for the 15 on top. That way shes out and entertained and you can still get on. ???


 I currently dont have anywhere safe for her to run--my room is a mess (not a simple messy room--I mean like boxes of stuff everywhere and such)



raindear said:


> You have gotten lots of good advice "Stir Crazy" is the title of your thread, and "Stir Crazy" is probably an apt description of the way your little girl feels. She is in solitary confinement all day. Then you come and give her a wee taste of freedom and put her back in her prison. Would you react any differently? I wouldn't. I would go nuts. So do humans. So do rats. And, so does she. I'm sure you love her, but keeping her in this situation is not the best way to show her that. Think of what's best for her and find a way to do that.


 (already replied to this idea earlier in my post)


Kuildeous said:


> Or at the very least, get a rat hoodie (mine is already chewed through) and walk around with your rat when you're at home. I know you have school. What else is taking up the bulk of your time? If it's homework (and good on you for choosing homework), could you do homework with your rat in your hoodie?
> 
> I still think the best solution is to find her a home until you can convince your dad to allow two rats (or you move out). Someone suggested keeping them at your mom's. Is that an option? That may mean going days without seeing them, but at least she'll have a companion 24 hours, and she'll still be glad to see you (plus…buddy!).


I do try to walk around the house with her, but we have 3 dogs, so it can get pretty iffy (the dogs are way to hyper about "meeting" her--one of the dogs have gotten bit by her before because the dog stuck his nose in her cage when it was in the living room)
But when I can, I certainly do.


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

I mean, we've given you pretty much as much advice as we can...
If you're not willing to improve her living situation, I'd reccomend giving her away...

You seem to be putting everything off, it's not as if you're actually open to any suggestions.

Your mom might be the best option...
Get her to sign up to the forum and we are always more than happy to help. 

Rats are loving creatures and she would be much happier with a buddy in a cage, then completely isolated all day.


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

Your dad wants her gone. He is not willing to discuss another rat. Sorry, I have to ask how did you convince him in the first place? Why does he want her gone? Why is he unwilling to discuss another rat companion for her? Did you know going in that 2 would be best, or did you find that out later? Is the reason you only have 15 minutes a day for her because your priority list has chores, school, homework first (as it should be) but texting, games, friends next with her at the bottom of the list? What other activities are keeping you from being a good rat parent? Do you realize that having a pet puts you in a parental position? A pet is a major responsibility and shouldn't be shuttled to the bottom of your priority list. She looks to you for not just food and housing, but caring, affection, play and everything else she needs. At this point, you are all she has. You have so much more: parents, friends, school, other activities. All she has is you. You should be a good parent and give her what she needs.


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## Amph (Apr 14, 2015)

I know it seems like we are jumping on you but if you consider that female rats have 135% more tumors when left isolated without much rat or human contact and when they do get them they are 8000% increased in size (numbers from a study of breast cancer in rats and the effect of social isolation), it's something you will have to face up to. Not to mention the physiological damage.. You are afraid to give her up encase she suffers but she IS suffering currently with you and I know its hard to accept because you love her.

So if you are going to keep her you need to do something. Solo rats need to be treated more equivalent to a dog than a rat in the sense of enrichment, time out and companionship. Could you not let her out on your bed with toys or make a playpen out of corex or something? Just put your mind to work you will figure something out..


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## FiMarie (Jan 19, 2013)

ksaxton said:


> No matter how much play time my rat got, she was always unhappy about going back in the cage and would always try to leap out of the doors the moment they opened.



This has been my experience as well. I had my rats out for 3 hours this afternoon (I fell asleep on the floor and woke up to one sleeping on my back and another crawling on my face). I put them back and even the sleepy one was suddenly WIDE AWAKE and desperately trying to get out. I have the DCN and I have to stick them from the bottom, up through the hole to the second level and block it off with something just to get the door closed. They're fast little pests and they know I won't close the door if their face is in the way.

It also seems like the more time and attention I give them, the more they want. If I'm busy and don't have time for them, they tend to give up trying to get my attention pretty quickly. If I had them out, they're more persistent. Your baby definitely needs more time (and preferably another rat pal if Dad can be persuaded). Maybe let him read a few threads on here about the necessity of providing for a rat's social needs? It's really no more work than having a single rat (in my experience) and she will be much happier. One additional rat shouldn't cause any additional smell or mess either (within reason, they will obvious urinate and poop more often, but if you clean your cage regularly there will not be any noticeable difference).


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

To be honest this is why I am 100% against children getting pets that the parents do not also want  It rarely ends up good for the pet.

You have to consider what is best for the rat and honestly rehoming seems to be the best thing in this case. You don't just have to randomly give it away. Post here where you are from maybe a fellow rat lover lives nearby or we can help u find a rescue.


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## Mojojuju (Nov 15, 2014)

I know that if you were in my area (FL, are you in FL?) I would take her. I am sure that other people on this board would, too. You can probably guarantee that the person will not abuse your baby. Just because it happened to your kitty (So sorry, btw) doesn't mean it will happen again. Especially if you find her someone from this forum.

I feel bad for you lil girl. You are making the right choice to do your schoolwork, but you also need to think of what the right choice is for her.


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## JCM (Mar 8, 2015)

AdequateRat said:


> I mean, we've given you pretty much as much advice as we can...
> If you're not willing to improve her living situation, I'd reccomend giving her away...
> 
> You seem to be putting everything off, it's not as if you're actually open to any suggestions.
> ...


 The only advice I've gotten so far is to rehome her or do the impossible really.
My mom hates forums. She loves facebook groups but shes not a fan of forums really. But I suppose I could try.
But still--I'm nervous because my mom doesn't have money for proper quarantine cages... and the only store in her town that sells female rats often only have rats that really need the vet (pregnant rats, respiratory infections, and the list just goes on and on)
Plus my mom thinks rats smell bad and doesn't want to clean out any cages.... but I can try that route anyways



raindear said:


> Your dad wants her gone. He is not willing to discuss another rat. Sorry, I have to ask how did you convince him in the first place? Why does he want her gone? Why is he unwilling to discuss another rat companion for her? Did you know going in that 2 would be best, or did you find that out later? Is the reason you only have 15 minutes a day for her because your priority list has chores, school, homework first (as it should be) but texting, games, friends next with her at the bottom of the list? What other activities are keeping you from being a good rat parent? Do you realize that having a pet puts you in a parental position? A pet is a major responsibility and shouldn't be shuttled to the bottom of your priority list. She looks to you for not just food and housing, but caring, affection, play and everything else she needs. At this point, you are all she has. You have so much more: parents, friends, school, other activities. All she has is you. You should be a good parent and give her what she needs.


 Its a long story.
Her and her two brothers (who were all 5 weeks old and sexed as a male trio) popped up on craigslist--I had wanted rats forever, and my mom said "Yes I can take them in 3 weeks! Give me three weeks and they will come live with me"
Well, my mom backed out last minute. It was around that time I resexed pancake, and she was indeed a she.
So I seperated them, and I ultimately gave up the boys to a girl who is very good with them--shes stopped giving me updates now, but she managed to make the one brother who was very timid a very cuddly lap rat.
I barely managed to convince my dad to let me keep Pancake, but that was only because Pancake is my little shoulder rat.



Amph said:


> I know it seems like we are jumping on you but if you consider that female rats have 135% more tumors when left isolated without much rat or human contact and when they do get them they are 8000% increased in size (numbers from a study of breast cancer in rats and the effect of social isolation), it's something you will have to face up to. Not to mention the physiological damage.. You are afraid to give her up encase she suffers but she IS suffering currently with you and I know its hard to accept because you love her.
> 
> So if you are going to keep her you need to do something. Solo rats need to be treated more equivalent to a dog than a rat in the sense of enrichment, time out and companionship. Could you not let her out on your bed with toys or make a playpen out of corex or something? Just put your mind to work you will figure something out..


Yeah it does feel like you guys are jumping on me.
Because this is *not *my fault. I didn't ask for this to happen, but yet here I am, the worst rat owner in the world. You guys are hanging me without giving me a chance to try to improve (within my ability).
Its irritating because I face the same thing with everyone in my life. Every forum I'm on calls me a bad owner for not doing enough, or on the flip side, trying too hard. Every friend I've ever made has told me I was pretty much an awful human being for something I didn't try to do. And let me tell you, when the whole dang world is telling you you suck at the things you like the most, its hard to be a good person.
And I'm _trying _to do something. (by the way, my bed is a bunk bed, so kinda hard to use as a rat playpen. But I have plans for when my room is redone for it to be rat proof)



FiMarie said:


> This has been my experience as well. I had my rats out for 3 hours this afternoon (I fell asleep on the floor and woke up to one sleeping on my back and another crawling on my face). I put them back and even the sleepy one was suddenly WIDE AWAKE and desperately trying to get out. I have the DCN and I have to stick them from the bottom, up through the hole to the second level and block it off with something just to get the door closed. They're fast little pests and they know I won't close the door if their face is in the way.
> 
> It also seems like the more time and attention I give them, the more they want. If I'm busy and don't have time for them, they tend to give up trying to get my attention pretty quickly. If I had them out, they're more persistent. Your baby definitely needs more time (and preferably another rat pal if Dad can be persuaded). Maybe let him read a few threads on here about the necessity of providing for a rat's social needs? It's really no more work than having a single rat (in my experience) and she will be much happier. One additional rat shouldn't cause any additional smell or mess either (within reason, they will obvious urinate and poop more often, but if you clean your cage regularly there will not be any noticeable difference).


 So its just kinda a rat thing to want endless playtime?
I have tried to show him threads but he just goes "Lots of people keep single rats and they're not dead or dying"--Basically he thinks its all just made up (even studies, I have tried)
(not trying to keep shooting ideas down, but I've already tried almost everything but buying a rat and bringing it home without permission at this point)



moonkissed said:


> To be honest this is why I am 100% against children getting pets that the parents do not also want  It rarely ends up good for the pet.
> 
> You have to consider what is best for the rat and honestly rehoming seems to be the best thing in this case. You don't just have to randomly give it away. Post here where you are from maybe a fellow rat lover lives nearby or we can help u find a rescue.


I am from south eastern wisconsin.
My local humane society takes in rats, but the rats there just kind of sit for months and months and normally live their whole lives there. So I don't fancy giving her to them, because they do not bond them with other rats, and they do not play with them--she'd be worse off there than she is now.


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## AdequateRat (Mar 12, 2015)

I'm really sorry that it feels like everyone is attacking you. You're a rattie enthusiast like us and we're glad that you posted a thread. 
It certainly means you care.

But, we have given you plenty more options than to just rehome her.

Amph said try and make a play pen out of your bed.. If you have a bunk bed, can't you use the bottom bunk? I don't feel like even the top bunk would be that big of an issue, if you trained her to stay on top I wouldn't see the problem..
Someone else suggested getting a rattie scarf, so she can curl up around your neck while you do homework.

Pretty sure Amph also asked if you could let her free range in your bathroom for a few hours whilst you study.
These are all reasonable tips/options, but every reply back from you seems like another excuse as to why you can't do this or why it's not reasonable.

So you cannot get another rat? So you cannot do all of the other options we've suggested.
You cannot let her out for only more than 15 minutes a day.... (Which seems ludicrous, in my opinion.)
When I was a teenager, I had a lot more free time than 15 minutes.. But maybe that's because I was a nerd/loser.

It seems like your life at this moment in time is not right to have a pet.
Like I stated before, rats need social interaction... they need love and attention.

I don't think you're a bad person, or a bad pet owner. I just think you have enough on your plate and it would be in your rat's best benefit to rehome her to someone who can meet her needs.
It sounds like having her is stressing you out because you know she's unhappy.

Like others have said, try posting on here to see who can take her.. That way you know she's going to a good home.

Best of luck to you, love.


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

Everyone here realizes that you love your little girl. None of us thinks you are bad or a bad parent. It might not seem like it right now, but we are trying to see what's going on and help you find a solution that will work for you and your rat. If you really look at what is going on in your life, you may find more time you can spend with your little girl. If your mother already backed out on you once, that may not be a good idea. If your father never wanted you to have her, then that may be an unsolvable problem. I'm sorry that if feels as if we are jumping on you. We really are trying to help you see other possibilities that will be good for both of you. I hope all of this helps you think of something.


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## JCM (Mar 8, 2015)

AdequateRat said:


> I'm really sorry that it feels like everyone is attacking you. You're a rattie enthusiast like us and we're glad that you posted a thread.
> It certainly means you care.
> 
> But, we have given you plenty more options than to just rehome her.
> ...


 My bunk bed doesn't have a bottom bunk--its more of a loft bed, really. My main concern with that is getting her up and down the ladder safely--She's not the most graceful rat, so I would have to hold her, but even I sometimes struggle on the ladder.
The rat scarf is a good idea. She probably wont stay put, but I'll try it nonetheless. I could use the bathroom when my dad's not home... but my dad isn't fond of the idea of a rat running around a room in his house (that isn't my room)
I do have more free time, but thats taken up by my other pets (A guinea pig and a dog), as well as naps (often when I come home from school I am so tired I can't even keep my eyes open)



raindear said:


> Everyone here realizes that you love your little girl. None of us thinks you are bad or a bad parent. It might not seem like it right now, but we are trying to see what's going on and help you find a solution that will work for you and your rat. If you really look at what is going on in your life, you may find more time you can spend with your little girl. If your mother already backed out on you once, that may not be a good idea. If your father never wanted you to have her, then that may be an unsolvable problem. I'm sorry that if feels as if we are jumping on you. We really are trying to help you see other possibilities that will be good for both of you. I hope all of this helps you think of something.


Thank you


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## Kuildeous (Dec 26, 2014)

Okay, winning over your father is a lost cause. He doesn't care if your rat lives or dies, so I see the challenge you're facing in convincing him to get a second rat. We'll have to move on to something that'll have more success. 

You could try clicker training your rat to come when you call. I speak only theoretically since I have not done this myself, but if your rat makes her way into a hard-to-reach spot in your room, then you could call her out when you're ready to put her away. I'm not 100% certain how well that will work. From what I read, clicker training is best done a few minutes a day, so it wouldn't take too much. If she comes when she's called, then you may feel more comfortable letting her wander your room while you're studying.

You said your mom is afraid to play with her. Understandable. New animals can always freak people out. How about the next time you visit your mother, you devote a couple of days to just playing with the rat. It can be a fun parent/child activity. The two of you sit on the couch watching TV with the rat crawling all over the both of you. Then you could show your mom how to set up a little play area to sit down and enjoy the rat. Some people just need some exposure to open up. My sister-in-law got her boys a hamster, and my wife and I were telling her she should get rats instead. Her husband says no. When the SIL came up to visit us, she was charmed by our rats and now really wants rats. Unfortunately, her husband still says no. We need to find a way to get her husband to meet our rats and turn him. So maybe you can convince your mom.

Even if your mom does see it your way and agree to play with the rat, I don't know if introducing a second rat is a good idea yet. Others with more experience than me could contradict me, but it seems to me that a freshly converted rat owner shouldn't have a second unbonded rat in her home so soon. But if she can give your rat a lot of time while you're not there, then that may make up for it. 

Since your dad really doesn't the rat in his house, I think your next-best option is to oblige him and move it to your mother's. It sounds like she is more open to the idea of rats than your father is. Might as well stop trying to do the impossible and work on something that seems more feasible. 

Is the person who took your two males still available? Maybe she could take your female? I know you don't talk to each other anymore, but perhaps a new rat will rekindle that relationship.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Some time back when we adopted our first rat, we discovered just how rat phobic my wife really was... so no second rat was possible... and my wife couldn't even see a rat so no big cage was possible... the cage had to be small and concealed and out of any room the wife might wander into... so we adapted in various ways... To make matters worse we eventually wound up with the most amazing true shoulder rat Fuzzy Rat... So we adapted again and in a very big way...

And it looked something like this...

Rat at the playground...









walks on the beach









Burning off a little excess energy








and hanging out with us whenever we were indoors.








And eventually the wife stopped bleaching everything Fuzzy Rat touched and we could all have dinner together at the table... (when the wife wasn't home).









I know that right now you feel like you are between a rock and a hard place... I was there too! Everyone said we needed another rat and our rat needed a real cage and toys, but we couldn't do it. We did have to change our schedule and devise new training techniques but in the end we made it work... Yes, we went way outside the box but Fuzzy Rat became a truly amazing rat for it... and she eventually changed my wife's mind.... She's still rat phobic, but she tolerates rats free ranging our house now, she just gets up on a chair when they go by and screams for help... And believe it or not that's an amazing improvement over spraying bleach all over the furniture so she could sit down... And it saves on new furniture... the kitchen table is still glass topped though.

What can you do? I don't know. I won't give you advise except to get your head out of the space it's in now... When Fuzzy Rat would go hyper at 1:00 AM, I took her out to the soccer field to run around and once it was raining and I got soaked doing it... Yes, I know how stupid it must have looked a grown man getting soaked while his rat runs around in the rain... but that's what it took and that's what we did... 

This was Fuzzy Rat at the end of her life...








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She was old and sick and tired, but she was my daughter's very best friend and we were her family... She had to adapt to a hard life on the road with us and we had to go way out of our way to keep her happy and healthy, but in the end it was worth every bit of what we went through 1000 times over. Her life turned out to be amazing... she climbed trees, swam in the lake entertained handicapped children, met the Pagans Motorcycle organization, did public events, saw fireworks shows and was affectionately called "the little health code violation" by both State and local police when we went out to eat with her up in the mountains. Calling a rat in a restaurant a health code violation never seems to get old for cops... but as long as they were joking, we never argued the point. She actually got her own little ice cream at DQ where she attracted lots of kids and she stopped a huge highway fast food franchise while the staff took time out to "meet the rat" One staff member telling the other customers to be patient, they usually don't have rats in the restaurant. And about 60 people in line waited patiently until the meet and greet was over and the food started coming out again.

So if you really want a special relationship with a really special animal... forget the advise and stop focusing on what you can't do and get started doing what you can... it may not be easy but nothing worth doing ever is...

Fuzzy Rat was a very special and highly trained rat, and we trained her at a safe site, most rats can't live the kind of life she did and most will get killed or lost... so shoulder ratting may not be for you or your rat.... I'm just posting one out of the box solution to a similar problem. I might add that in time, the wife also allowed Fuzzy Rat to have a rat friend... but it took a lot of time and Fuzzy Rat did most of the convincing. Even a standing on the chair screaming rat phobic couldn't deny such a great rat a best furry friend.

You CAN make it work if you want it bad enough... Find a way to spend time with your rat, she's a special animal and you CAN make her life special... If you don't like the advise you have gotten so far, find a better way!

Best luck.


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