# Daughter attacked by pet rat; Need some feedback here



## ratowner502 (Jan 25, 2017)

Below are the facts as best as I can convey them. I'm sure there's a lot that doesn't matter, but I'm including them all.

- two male rats, both bought as pups, both always handled daily and as tame as can be. Never an incident. Very good relationships with both rats. We have owned them for 11 months, so they are both right at a year old

- the attacker is the larger and more dominant of the two

- he bit the **** out of her. Four large punctures and a lot of blood. This was after the initial bite and she was completely withdrawing from him, pleading for help; he kept chasing and attacking. At last bite he was hanging by his teeth from her arm.

- at time of attack and after the attacker is bruxing, fluffed up, and huffing/snorting on occasion. He is currently in his fairly large bi-level cage (alone) and pacing around, grooming quite a bit, drinking water, huffing.

- we made a "slime" made of clear Elmers glue, some glitter, a drop of food coloring, and liquid starch that both daughters played with (all over their hands) --- both washed their hands, however the attacked dipped her hands back into it about 15 minutes before the attack

- both daughters were each handling a rat this evening. One was attacked, and the other was not.

- both rats are on antibiotics, amoxicillin, but this is nothing new ---- it seems like once every two months we're dealing with another round of respiratory distress. The attacker is the more hearty of the two and usually doesn't exhibit the symptoms like the other does --- but following the vets orders we treat both at the same time.

- the attacker is an albino dumbo rat.

- the attacker is currently in the cage, alone, with a sealed container that I made with several punctures in it... it has some of the "slime" in it and I also rubbed it all around it. He showed some real interest in it initially, but otherwise has been ignoring it.

- 3 days ago the attacked was handling the attacker and we heard some distressed squeaking. This is an unusual incident, and generally he is very tolerant with her.
We thought maybe he had been accidentally injured. Immediately following and ever since there's been no other signs of injury or distress, regardless of who has handled him,

- after removing the attacked from the room and dealing with her wounds, he lunged at and attacked my wife... he got her sweater... ruffled up and truly pissed off.

- there were no signs of distress, squeaking or otherwise, before the attack. It was sudden and out of nowhere.

- lastly, and I don't want to color anyone's opinions here, we've learned that she did have a small toy car (micro machine size) that she was playing with with the rat. She rolled it on his back... perhaps it snagged his hair and he didn't like it, but he's been in what I would think are worse situations so it's completely out of character in my mind for him to act like this

- He's still ruffled, grooming, pacing the cage, etc. We are concerned with putting his brother back in with him --- we introduced them through the cage a minute ago and the attacker bit at his brother's foot; his brother squeaked fairly loudly. No broken skin or anything, and they do chase and play bite and squeak quite often -- but this seemed a little different.

- we have not changed anything in their routines/environment/food/etc. They have had a VERY consistent life.
These rats we can normally flip around on their backs and pet into a trance. Very tame, very used to human contact, and in fact they prefer it --- the attacker in particular is ALWAYS at the cage door waiting to be handled.

So what is the protocol here? The immediate concern is reintroducing the other rat --- we have to put him away at some point and don't have a backup cage.

And, of course, the other concern is safe handling/the future of ownership of this particular rat, etc.
We are currently just trying to give the attacker some space and alone time in the cage.... he seems to be SLOWLY calming down.


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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

How long ago did the attack happen? 
Were you supervising your kids with the rats? Because I'm not trying to insult anyone but sometimes kids dont tell the whole truth especially if they've hurt a animal. I did a lot of stupid things as a kid and never told my parents.

Give him time to calm down, if he's still aggressive in a day or so I'd be worried something is wrong with him and take him into the vet. He could have a hormonal imbalance. I've had a male rat with this and he would attack and bite the **** out of me just for being in his space, draw tons of blood. You can get him neutered and he should calm right down. You might have to get another cage for his brother in the meantime if he doesn't chill out a cat carrier or a bin cage will also work.


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## Okeedoke22 (Dec 31, 2016)

Hello. Very sorry to hear your daughter was bit. Hope she is ok. How old is your daughter? You mentioned a toy car. Possibly the rats hairs or skin got caught in wheel by accident that set the rat off. Once the rat was in that mode couldn't calm down. I know if I get bit I would yank back which might actually rile up the rat more.

I would give him some time to cool off and then re-introduce. As you said this is out of character so either something is wrong or maybe something happened to set him off. Could be the slime. Not sure at all though.

I hope everything turns out ok.


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## BlueDumbo (Nov 30, 2015)

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter, I hope she is ok!

I can't say for certain, but I wonder if perhaps rolling the toy car over him either hurt him or made him feel threatened? Did the attack happen shortly after the toy car rolled on his back?

Another possibility is the slime smell for some reason set him off? Or, and this may be far fetched, but he could have been bit by a spider or bug and been having a bad reaction. A bug bite can cause him pain or other symptoms and he may act out irrationally, which would explain the out of characterness. 

I would slowly reintroduce his brother with him. And when you do put him back in, perhaps place some baby food or something they can share eating to both distract them and allow them to bond together. If the attacker is still aggressive, it may be necessary to put him in a cat carrier (with food and water) so he can calm down. I agree with the above, getting him neutered will more than likely help with any aggression problems in the future, especially if this is due to hormone imbalance.

Good for you for searching for answers and not blaming your boy! 
I hope this can be solved


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## Kelsbels (Aug 12, 2015)

I hope your daughter is okay, and thank you for being so detailed.

I agree with what Jokerfest has to say. To add perhaps your rat isn't feeling well, rats can have a lot of things happening inside them that we wouldn't be aware of. I'm thinking something in the lines of a pituitary tumor, though they're not too common.


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## Rattielover965 (Apr 26, 2016)

How old is your daughter?


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## ratowner502 (Jan 25, 2017)

Daughter, 6, was supervised in the sense that she was in the same room on the adjacent couch.
Nothing out of the ordinary happened. Typical time with the rats out of their cages. No squeaks, no distress, just suddenly he was attacking the heck out of her..


we got a quarantine cage put together for him and this morning he is still not his normal self; he seems "depressed" according to my wife.

I have to get going, but here's something my wife posted elsewhere as a followup... 


Update on the rat. Also 2 minor edits on the above post that may or may not have any bearing on anything. They have a very large, freestanding, 3 level cage (not 2 levels), so they are in no way cramped. Wheel, hammock, toys, shredded paper to nest with, cardboard boxes to nest in, fleece lining the bottom as opposed to loose bedding (no bare bars to cause bumble foot or cedar shavings to irritate their respiratory system) etc, etc. Also, he and his "brother" are not litter mates. We got him a few days later after the other rat's litter mate died shortly after bringing him home. The rat that attacked is 3-4 weeks younger than the other and was only about 6 weeks old when we got him. However, he is double the size of his brother now that he is mature. After letting him calm down in the cage for a while, I put on some thick gloves and got him out by letting him crawl onto me. I put him into a recliner we like to sit in and cuddle with them or let them hang out in while cleaning the cage. I set him in it instead of putting him on my lap so I could observe him better. He seemed to be doing ok with my gloved hand gently petting him. I inspected his body and saw a patch of thin hair where his skin was showing through by his haunches. I barely touched it with my finger to see if I could move the hair to get a better look, and he lunged suddenly and bit me on the hand right through the thick rubber glove. He was suddenly back to having his hair raised, pacing, snorting and charging towards me even though I had stopped touching him and backed off. We let him calm off again and thought he might find comfort from his brother. As soon as we put his brother on the chair with him he attacked him. Every time we quickly picked him up and moved him away, he was right back on top of his brother biting in a very aggressive manner (clearly not play fighting). We got them separated enough to swoop the other one away. Thankfully, no blood was shed. We made a temporary quarantine for him by adding a 4th floor to their rat high rise, using a wire small animal play pen. We are really stumped as to why he turned on us all of the sudden. He doesn't seem to be in pain except for maybe that spot I tried to touch, but normally he squeaks if he doesn't like how he's being handled. A nickname of his is "squeaker" because he squeaks almost every time you pick him up (his whole life no matter how gentle we are). He hasn't squeaked since the weird sound he made a few days ago while our daughter was playing with him. (Again, my husband was in the room and didn't see what might have hurt him, and our daughter is adamant she didn't accidentally sit on his tail or anything. And I checked him right after that incident and he seemed completely fine. In the days since, I've had held him as normal twice a day to administer meds, plus our children have played with them every day. We don't know what to do. Has anyone else ever had a rat turn on them suddenly? Was it temporary or permanent? Was there an underlying cause? Injury? Meds? Raging hormones (not neutered)? Any info is helpful. We love our little guys, and both of our daughters are upset about what might happen to him. Thank you!


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## Asiposea (Dec 16, 2016)

ratowner502 said:


> Has anyone else ever had a rat turn on them suddenly? Was it temporary or permanent? Was there an underlying cause?


Sorry you have to go through this, it's hard to see a rat change like this. I don't have any different suggestions besides what was already mentioned (neutering, researching possible pituitary tumor).

Otherwise, to answer the above question, I did have a rat suddenly 'turn' after the death of a cagemate. This rat was a female and just a couple days after I had euthanized a beloved rat, this particular one immediately became aggressive: lunging, biting, extreme behavior, grumpy with another cagemate etc. This was extremely surprising given that she was mild mannered and never displayed any of this in the past. She calmed down a little after a while, but I never really could pick her up anymore without being scared. Because she was older, I wasn't comfortable with a spay. She lived out the next several months in this disgruntled manner.

Please keep us updated, good luck!


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## ratowner502 (Jan 25, 2017)

thanks all for the help/info.


We're pretty certain at this point the toy car had nothing to do with it (I can't get it to snag my hair or the dogs hair), and we're also pretty certain at this point that our daughter didn't do anything else to provoke the behavior.
Also at this point we think chances are slim that the "slime" had anything to do with it.

We're not really sure how to move forward; I feel bad having him locked up and off limits, but getting bit is not much fun.


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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

Get him neutered, it sounds hormonal.


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## Ratloved (Oct 4, 2015)

If this were my rat, I would get him neutered. I have not read through the entire thread, so if there is a reason your not considering that, sorry to bring up. There are only four major reason I can think of a rat doing this: 1) the person handling the rat did something to provoke the attack. 2) Some physical issue, such as a brain tumor or other neurological issue. 3) Hormones of an unneurtered male. 4) Combination of any of the above. ALL domesticated animals have the potential to bite. And although I am sorry you daughter got bit, I think you owe it to the animal to have a vet visit for testing or neutering before you think about putting him down or condemning him a life of solitude.


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## Fu-Inle (Jan 22, 2015)

Well socialized rats are very patient and forgiving. To provoke an attack like that from a normally friendly rat would take some serious nastiness. Might want to consider neutering him if he keeps attacking. Another reason for sudden agression is a brain tumour, one of the most common tumours in rats. Unfortunately, they can't be operated on and the rat eventually dies.


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## ratowner502 (Jan 25, 2017)

Ratloved said:


> before you think about putting him down or condemning him a life of solitude.



Oh definitely no life of solitude. We wouldn't do that to him.

Having him put down isn't off the table, but before we get to that point (if ever) we're looking into finding someone local that perhaps would adopt and take on the challenge of a rat with behavioral issues.

I understand that all domesticated animals can bite, but at the same time I've always had a low tolerance policy for any animal that represents a danger to myself or anyone else. He's on thin ice right now.


The vet, a small animal specialist familiar with rats, was not much help --- he offered neutering at a cost of $220. Yikes. 
We love these animals, and right out of the gate we did a ton of research and learned that we must have a minimum of two, a large multilevel cage, pellets instead of shavings, multiple water bottles so they won't fight over water or go without on those weekends away, etc --- 
We made the investment to properly own them, and along the way we've fought off respiratory illnesses with prescriptions of antibiotics, nursed one back to health on a diet of Ensure (a few times now), etc, etc.
The point is we're good and responsible pet owners, but our pockets are only so deep. $220 for neutering just isn't a realistic option for us.



The two rats have been reintroduced and have been together for 24 hours now with no incidents. You could tell they were both very happy to be reunited.
For now, we're handling him with gloves and being cautious. He's off limits to the kids.
He seems to be more or less the same rat, but the trust is pretty much gone for us. This will take some time if nothing else.


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## FlamingFox (Feb 10, 2017)

I agree that it's hormonal. It sounds like a worse version of what my boy went through when he turned 6 months. The touch on the haunches setting him off sounds totally characteristic of raging rat hormones. If your rat is healthy enough to handle the surgery, you can try neutering. Mine seems to have gotten over himself without surgery, but I'm not sure all of them do.


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## Lucas (May 7, 2016)

I had a rat do the exact same thing to me, he used to be the sweetest most mellow guy but just turned on me without warning and totally shredded my hand. He'd puff up and pace around and latch onto me whenever I got close, even going so far as to attack his cage mates. Turns out he was just hormonal and needed to be neutered. Most young males hit a hormonal point in their life and you can either neuter him and stop the problem, or just wait it out, which isn't guaranteed to work.


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## LilysPets (Jul 1, 2016)

ratowner502 said:


> Having him put down isn't off the table, but before we get to that point (if ever) we're looking into finding someone local that perhaps would adopt and take on the challenge of a rat with behavioral issues.


It's great that you're seeking help from a more experienced group/person, but why would you even consider euthanizing just because of this? If you think it's safer and best interest for your male rat to find a new home, consider surrendering/rehoming. Please don't make euthanasia an option just because your trust for him is on thin ice...


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## Basiltheplant (Jan 2, 2017)

> It's great that you're seeking help from a more experienced group/person, but why would you even consider euthanizing just because of this? If you think it's safer and best interest for your male rat to find a new home, consider surrendering/rehoming. Please don't make euthanasia an option just because your trust for him is on thin ice...


I love rats just as much as the next guy. I do, I feel we need to understand where he is coming from. He has a child of his that was attacked and injured by the Rat. The way I understood his phrasing of his trust for him being on thin ice was "I am afraid that he will hurt my children again." I agree that he should definitely look into rehoming him first, but if that's not an option we shouldn't shame him for doing what's best for him and his family


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## LilysPets (Jul 1, 2016)

Basiltheplant said:


> I love rats just as much as the next guy. I do, I feel we need to understand where he is coming from. He has a child of his that was attacked and injured by the Rat. The way I understood his phrasing of his trust for him being on thin ice was "I am afraid that he will hurt my children again." I agree that he should definitely look into rehoming him first, but if that's not an option we shouldn't shame him for doing what's best for him and his family


I'm not trying to shame him or anything, but do you really think euthanizing an innocent animal is what's best for "his family"? I think it's a bit over the line, imo. Yes, some animals have behavioural problems, but to euthanize one because he's afraid it might attack his daughter again? Not a fan of his idea there. I get that children are parents' first and top priority, but I would never let the idea of euthanizing one due to one attack is justified. Again, not trying to shame... I just don't think it's morally right.


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## Basiltheplant (Jan 2, 2017)

LilysPets said:


> I'm not trying to shame him or anything, but do you really think euthanizing an innocent animal is what's best for "his family"? I think it's a bit over the line, imo. Yes, some animals have behavioural problems, but to euthanize one because he's afraid it might attack his daughter again? Not a fan of his idea there. I get that children are parents' first and top priority, but I would never let the idea of euthanizing one due to one attack is justified. Again, not trying to shame... I just don't think it's morally right.


I agree that it is not morally right to euthanize an innocent animal. I agree that it is not morally right to euthanize an animal because of one attack. And he said earlier in the thread that he is giving the Rat some time to see if he is alright behaviorally. And if not he is going to try and rehome him. He did say that euthanasia isn't off the table. And he did say that it's not his first choice. 
I do understand where you are coming from. You are worried about the rats well being because you care very deeply for them as a whole and, in my opinion, I do not think we need to be worried because he seems to be doing everything necessary in ensuring the safety and wellbeing of both his family and his rats.
Last he posted he said that the two rats were getting along again, so I don't think we have much to fear.
If he does decide to rehome the Rat, we can suggest rescues near him in case his rehoming does not go as planned. That way he does not end up resorting to euthanasia


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

I always try to be so careful not to scare my blind pink eyed rats, I think they need more gentle hands and I would be so scared if I couldn't see anything and had a toy car rolled over my back. He was scared and probably didn't know what he was doing and reacted but also it's not okay for a pet to react like that when there are kids. If you didn't rehome him I'd definitely keep him off-limits to the kids in the future. I think it'd be hard to rehome a rat who attacked your kid like that since you'd need to tell prospecting new owners about it. It'd be stressful. Surgery might not fix it anyways. My opinion was he was terrified. I'd give him a very calm life, I wouldn't put him down, and I'd make sure the kids or anyone besides me didn't handle him. That's my feedback.


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## ratowner502 (Jan 25, 2017)

Update:

Everything went back to normal. No issues whatsoever, aside from my being very leary of him.
I slowly settled on the idea of a "3 strikes" policy for him.

Strikes 2 was all it took.

2 weeks ago my 9 year old daughter did her routine nightly "good night" petting. NOTHING out of the ordinary here.
Without any warning at all he aggressively attacked her, ripped her hand wide open with a very deep 1.5" long wound on her palm in the meat under her pinky. I've seen some bad wounds in my lifetime, and this was a nasty one. I'll spare you the pictures, but think of a baked potato that has been squeezed to make it rupture wide open.

I rushed to my FAK and treated with povidone iodine, tincture of benzoin, steri-strips, etc. She headed to the nearest immediate care and came back with several stitches and heavy antibiotics...


A little later he was attacking his cage mate. We quarantined him and he never did calm down over a 5 day period. Any approach to his cage would cause him to stir and lunge. Very aggressive. Very hard to do cage maintenance/etc.


He has been re-homed to a local rescue, whose owner insists that nobody but he is allowed to handle the "biters" ---- and they never get adopted out, just live their life out at his facility.


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## BearNecessities (Dec 6, 2016)

I'm sorry to hear that it resorted to him being rehomed. I suppose in this case your kids safety had to come first, so I do understand your decision. Of course now, your other buck is living alone I assume. Do you plan on getting him some friends? I think it'd be unfair to him to have to live out the rest of his days alone due to his brothers actions.


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## Asiposea (Dec 16, 2016)

Thanks for the update. Sorry to hear about your daughter- hope she heals up and isn't traumatized by this experience. Glad you were able to find a rescue for the rascal.

If you're going to get more rats I highly suggest looking for a reputable breeder- you will be more likely to have one with a sweeter temperament- or also, see if you can find a vet with a reasonable neutering fee should anything similar start happening with your remaining boy.

Good luck!


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## LilysPets (Jul 1, 2016)

I'm so sorry to hear about this! 

Is your daughter okay? Strange he suddenly became aggressive like that, although I did have a male who did something very similar... 

I'm glad he found a rescue where he can live his life on his own without anymore stress.


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