# Rat frustration (vent)



## Hedgian (Aug 18, 2014)

If you have been reading my posts you know I have had no luck in getting Blaze and Jojo together since Blaze is just too aggressive towards other rats. I came up with a plan to keep Blaze away from other rats and train him as a shoulder rat so he doesn't get lonely. And then I would get Jojo 1-2 younger rats to keep him company. The only breeder that I could find that keeps their website up to date and that I somewhat trust decided my current cage isn't suitable for rats. I have never had an issue with either of my rats with it. (They said the bars are too far apart, they are 1inch apart) I really don't know what to do now, I told them I could get the hardware cloth or whatever it's called and put that on the cage but they just said it was a health hazard. I couldn't find any accidental litters that would let me adopt. I don't know what to do at this point. I don't have the fund to buy an entirely new cage considering I bought this one about a month ago. Where do I go from now?


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## Kitterpuss (May 9, 2014)

Have you truely exhausted all your options with regards to introductions? Perhaps with some perseverance you may still be able to get these to rats together? I posted in your other thread about the carrier method, maybe you should give it some consideration if you haven't tried already.


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## Hedgian (Aug 18, 2014)

We don't have a cat carrier so other then that yes I have exhausted all my options on getting them together. I will just have to look for another breeder.


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## Kitterpuss (May 9, 2014)

Would it not be easier to pick up a cat carrier/small animal carrier/cage? I mean surely you would need such a thing anyway if you are thinking of collecting more rats? How will you transport them to the vet?


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## Hedgian (Aug 18, 2014)

When I had to take blaze to the vet we didn't have time to get a carrier so we just took him in an old box that we put holes in. But a carrier would be good to get since I sort of need to get 1-2 more rats for Jojo.


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## Kitterpuss (May 9, 2014)

Well in that case I would get the carrier and give it one last shot with the boys. Surely it's worth a try so your boy Blaze isn't all alone? From what you have written, I think there is still hope for them both.


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## Hedgian (Aug 18, 2014)

Blaze is very aggressive with other rats, there has been no positive interaction with another rat with him.


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## Adeliek (Jul 28, 2014)

Unfortunately some rats just don't get on with other rats. There is obviously a chance that Blaze is one of those rats who just prefers to be alone. You know your rats better than anyone and if you believe that the carrier method would be a waste of time then I understand, you don't want to be putting Jojo in unnecessary danger from a nasty fight. Most of us have come across RatDaddy and His adventures with Fuzzy Rat who lived quite a long time as a lone shoulder rat. If you are 100% certain you can give Blaze enough attention to satisfy his social needs then go for it  I'm almost certain that hardwire cloth isn't a hazard as long as its done properly?? Although I've never done it myself. Are there any rescues near you where you could get a rat for JoJo? It could just be an age thing with Bllaze as well, in a couple of months he may have a change of heart!


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## Kitterpuss (May 9, 2014)

What kind of aggression has he been displaying? I know he bite Jojos tail through the bars. Any other injuries that happened during the intro attempts? What was happening during intros at the point where you intervened?


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## Hedgian (Aug 18, 2014)

Kitterpuss said:


> What kind of aggression has he been displaying? I know he bite Jojos tail through the bars. Any other injuries that happened during the intro attempts? What was happening during intros at the point where you intervened?


Jojo bit Blaze's tail through the bars. Jojo was never the aggressive one so I think he just thought it was food.Blaze usually gets very huffy. He will "hiss" and puff up when he notices Jojo is near. When putting them together in a bathroom he will arch up and rub his testicals in Jojo's face (literally) Before attacking him.


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## Kitterpuss (May 9, 2014)

What happens during the attack? Was there any injuries? Were they boxing and chasing or rolling about in a fur ball? You do need to let rats fight it out to a certain extent.


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## Hedgian (Aug 18, 2014)

Kitterpuss said:


> What happens during the attack? Was there any injuries? Were they boxing and chasing or rolling about in a fur ball? You do need to let rats fight it out to a certain extent.


 I have the cage split in half so they actually aren't together but Blaze's tail was dangling down and that's when Jojo bit it. It was scrapped but for the most part nothing.


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## Kitterpuss (May 9, 2014)

So no real injuries during the actual face to face intro attempts then?


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## Hedgian (Aug 18, 2014)

Kitterpuss said:


> So no real injuries during the actual face to face intro attempts then?


None that I could find but worst that there'd be are littler scraps. I have found no random blood anywhere so..


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## Kitterpuss (May 9, 2014)

That's a good sign. I have a feeling that the boys just haven't had a chance to properly see things through to the end - they get split up when they start fighting - I'm assuming that you remove them from each other completely at this point?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I agree with kit. Sounds like they might have some issues but they need to work them out. If hey Fay was here she could explain better, but she used the carrier method in a similar case. Her older rat would puff and lunge and whine etc at the sniff of the younger ones. I recommended the carrier and she tried it and in such close quarters they're forced to deal with their problems instead of trying to act big (such as when they put on shows but don't cause injury).


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## Hedgian (Aug 18, 2014)

Kitterpuss said:


> That's a good sign. I have a feeling that the boys just haven't had a chance to properly see things through to the end - they get split up when they start fighting - I'm assuming that you remove them from each other completely at this point?


I usually give them a second/third chance before putting them back in their cage.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Try reducing the space. Doesn't have to be a new carrier, a small bin cage can work. Reducing the space does help to prevent injuries.


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## Hedgian (Aug 18, 2014)

nanashi7 said:


> Try reducing the space. Doesn't have to be a new carrier, a small bin cage can work. Reducing the space does help to prevent injuries.


I was told to put them in a bathtub with some water that will distress them enough that theyll stay together. Only like an inch of water not a lot. What are your guy's opinion on that?


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## Mrs.Brisby (Jan 4, 2014)

Have you tried smearing them both with baby food and putting them in a neutral setting? It worked for me when I was introducing a new member to my mischief.


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## Hedgian (Aug 18, 2014)

Mrs.Brisby said:


> Have you tried smearing them both with baby food and putting them in a neutral setting? It worked for me when I was introducing a new member to my mischief.


I don't have any baby food, would applesauce work? I don't think we have that either but if we did get some the extra would have another use.


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## Kitterpuss (May 9, 2014)

I think one of the main things that's been holding them back is the fact that they are being placed back in their cages before they get a proper chance to sort through their differences.

Some boxing, pinning chasing and squeaking is normal. If they turn into a ball fighting then all means make it clear that you won't tolerate that. Clap your hands and tell them off, maybe have an oven mitt at the ready in case you need to get in there with your hand and push them apart. I find a spray bottle of water can help distract two fighting rats too, along with a firm 'No Fighting' command. (Not a harsh jet of water, just a mist)

They need to give them some time to get past there quarrels and accept each other.

Even if you don't use the carrier method I would still read through Isumarats sticky as it has a lot of good tips on what to expect in terms of behaviour. There is another sticky that mentions the bathtub method with water if you are planning on trying that.


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## Hedgian (Aug 18, 2014)

Whenever Blaze gets huffy with Jojo I always tell him off. When they do fight it usually ends up with Jojo being on his back and they would be in a ball.


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## Mrs.Brisby (Jan 4, 2014)

It's worth a try. In the wild rats distinguish their fellow members by scent. If a rat doesn't share that scent than they're perceived as a threat by the rest of the group. So changing the scent of both rats so that they're the same helps to remove the perceived threat. It works the same way for some other animals too. A couple months ago a zoo had a problem with one of their mongooses getting beat up by the rest of the mongooses. It turns out that they altered his smell when they gave him a routine checkup and his friends could no longer recognize him. They fixed the problem by covering all of their mongooses in some vicks vaporub so that they would all smell the same again. I don't recommend using vicks vaporub but soy yogurt, babyfood, even a small bit of vanilla extract would work.


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## Hedgian (Aug 18, 2014)

I've decided I am going to continue with my original plan for the most part, I will get Jojo (hopefully) 2 companions. I will be getting him at least 1 companion for him. But, I will continue trying to get Jojo and Blaze to get along. (I will also get Blaze to befriend the others)


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## Kitterpuss (May 9, 2014)

When you say Jojo is on his back might that be Blaze pinning him? My boys have been going through dominance struggles as they work out who is the leader of the pack. They will pounce each other and tussle and it usually ends up with the 'winner' standing on top of the other one. He will stay like that until the one on his back stops struggling, and then he may 'power groom' the rats belly to show he is boss. They chase each other and stand up boxing and kicking and it's mostly play fighting, and I let them get on with it for the most part. I can tell when it gets out of hand because they will start squeaking really loudly and really banging about the place. That's when I will shout at them to stop. 

It's taken a months worth of training to get them to a place where they will stop fighting on command. 

Best of luck with the quest for new rats, and the ongoing intros.


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## Hedgian (Aug 18, 2014)

Next time I put them together I will record it so it's easier.


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## Kitterpuss (May 9, 2014)

Good idea!


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