# Possibly pregnant hairless, but I have no idea. HELP!



## Tampa0311

Ok, I bought my first rat about a month ago from a very good pet store. She is a regular hooded rat and is sweet as can be. My boyfriend always said he wanted a hairless rat when we were shopping for toys for her, so I went out the next day and bought a baby hairless for him. 
Since I got her, about a week and half ago, she has gotten really fat. I have never had rats before so I cannot distinguish whether she is really pregnant or just fat and lazy. 
Lately she has started gaining a lot of weight, she made a gigantic nest out of paper towels, her nipples are huge, and she doesn't really like to be touched all of a sudden.
Everything I have read is pointing to yes, however I cannot find any pictures of pregnant hairless rats to compare to. I am going to post a few pictures of her and hopefully someone can tell me yes or no, because I am freaking out. 
I have read that their litters can be anywhere from 6-24 babies and that hairless females make terrible mothers. Is she going to chow down on them as soon as they pop out?!?! What if she neglects them, how do I feed them? WHAT do I feed them? How do I know if she is being mean to them or just being normal. How do I tell if she is having trouble lactating? Will she make any strange noises when she starts to go into labor? 
SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME!!!! 8O
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## ambernd

Ok I have been in your situation before. When a rat is prego she will have a pair shape to her stomach. A lot of times you can feel babies if you GENTLY puch on the sides of her tummy. You need to put your other rat in a different cage and put the hairless in a cage with no ramps or wire siding that they can slip through. A lot of people preffer a 20gallon (long) aquarium. (as that it what i used) Make sure she has plenty of bedding that is soft and they like some ripped up paper towels to make nests. When her water breaks it will be kind of blooding and the spots should be no bigger than 1 or 2 quarters. When there water breaks they usually have babies within 24 hours. She will be putting herself in odd positions to get ready for birth. Try not to watch her but do keep an eye on her. If you watch her to close she will get stressed and it could cause birthing complications. She will have her babies one by one and she will pull them out with her teeth and hand and then she will lick them and eat the placenta. They will often have a couple of babies born dead and do not be alarmed if she starts to eat the dead babies. Or even if the babies are alive dont be alarmed if she eats them. The ONLY reason why she would eat alive baby is because she senses that it is unhealthy. And there is a mith that they will eat them if you thouch the babies and that is NOT true. She will probably take breaks inbetween each baby. The birthing procces shoulf be no longer than 2 hours. If she is still having babies after 2 hours then she should be fine. Call a vet and be sure they know that you could have a litter coming. If she doesn't start nurseing them right away give them 24 hours and she should start nursing them and if she doesn't them you need to feed them soy formula. (We will get into that if she doesn't nurse them). I wouldn't bother them the first day or two so mom can have some time with them. When she is having babies she will probaly squek a little bit. If you have anymore questions just ask. Anyone correct me if i was wrong about any of that. It would help if we had some picture of her belly while she was standing up.


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## Tampa0311

Ok I posted 5 pictures that will hopefully help in determining whether or not she is preggo. Thank you so much for your help!


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## ambernd

i think she is pregnant it looks like it in the first picture. So deffenatly seperate the rats and put her into a 20gallon aqaurium.


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## Tampa0311

There isn't any way to tell when she will give birth is there? I can't sleep knowing that she's about to have babies in her tank. I kinda wanna be there when it happens to supervise.


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## ambernd

Well with her siz e i would say she would have them within 2 days.... because rats dont show if they are pregnant untill the last 3 days of pregnancy. So you should be able to sleep to nite. Remember not to stare at her or watch her during birth she will get stressed and might have complications. I know its hard not to...


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## ambernd

But remember there is no way to tell when she will have them or even if she is pregnant.


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## Kimmiekins

They start to show in the third week after conception. She does indeed look pregnant in some of those photos and from your observations, I'd go with her probably being pregnant. (Hopefully, I'm wrong!) It's best not to hover, as she will be able to sense it and it will stress her out and possibly cause complications. Try to assure yourself that 90% of births go without a hitch. Of course, do keep an eye out for problems, which you can read about at the links later in the post.

You may want to prepare ahead in the event she can not nurse the litter, since she is a hairless. You will need to have a surrogate mother on-call (breeders, rescues nearby? If not, call around pet stores [I'd say as a last resort] for possible nursing mothers). finding a surrogate is the BEST thing. If none are available, you can hand feed, but it's really a last-resort sort of thing because 1) it will be **** on you (feeding every 2-3 hours 24/7 for a few weeks) and 2) hand feeding does not insure that the rittens will live.

Anyway, other then that, I could probably write a novel about labor, birth and newborns but others have already written a lot of that down, so here's some sites to read. 

http://www.worldofrats.com/ROUSBreedingFAQMain.html
http://www.80stoysale.com/ratbreeding.html
http://ratguide.com/breeding/

In case you need to hand feed:

http://www.ratfanclub.org/orphans.html
http://www.afrma.org/rminfo8.htm
http://www.rmca.org/Articles/orphans.htm

Here's a neat site to see the growth and development of rittens, so you'll know what to expect:

http://ratgrowth.homestead.com/

When it comes time to sex the rats (you can actually do so at birth if you know what to look for - which these sites teach), as you'll want to separate the genders at 5 weeks to prevent future liters:

http://www.ratz.co.uk/sexingrats.html
http://www.afrma.org/sexing101.htm

Anything else you need, we're here.


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## Tampa0311

Alright we made it throught the night without any babies. I woke up this morning and was talking to her and feeling her belly, and I could actually see and feel movement inside of her by pressing lightly on her side. Just asfter that she started breathing really fast and heavy. Does this mean she's going into labor? She's been doing that for about 20 minutes now.


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## twitch

i know people have been saying that rats only show later in pregnancy but that is not always the case. when i brought spider and snicketts home it was the next day that spider started showing and only a few days after that that snicketts started showing. they gave birth nearly a full 3 weeks later and as gestation is only about 3 weeks i'd say they showed after only being pregnant for a few days.


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## Forensic

I'm not sure if that's labor, but she's definitely pregnant... Keep an eye on her and find a number for a vet, it may be necessary. You may also want to get some animal baby formula or soy human formula if she's having problems lactating.


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## Tampa0311

How long should I wait before introducing my other female rat to the mommy and babies?


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## Tampa0311

This is the way I have been calculating her pregnancy, I got her on July 20th. She had to already have been pregnant when I got her because my other rat is a female. Since today is the 4th, I have had her about 16-17 days. So if she got pregnant the exact day I got her, she still has like a week left...highly unlikely I think. I think she gets fatter every time I look at her. haha. I can see the little ratties moving around inside her and all she does is lay around and eat, like a typical pregnant woman. She has to be due any day now. Hopefully it will be soon, because I can't handle this stress anymore. lol. I feel bad for her. She looks so uncomfortable. Are rats ever in pain during their pregnancy?


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## ambernd

Tampa0311 said:


> How long should I wait before introducing my other female rat to the mommy and babies?


I wouldn't introduce the other rat with her and the babies until 3-4 weeks old. Or just wait until their weaned at 5 weeks. I have 19 day olds and I have to put them in with my other rat like 4 times a day. You would have to read my post to understand it.


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## Tampa0311

Is there anything special I should be feeing mommy before or after the babies come?


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## A1APassion

yeah.. you should read amber's thread.. lot's of good info there for you too

I just asked amber this same question... What are you feeding Mom now?


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## Tampa0311

mazuri biscuits for rats and small rodents and some seed mix once in a while for a treat.


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## A1APassion

that sounds good

there are many great sites out there that show diets for rats... here is just one that I have boomarked ( I found this one very easy to read)

http://www.boardmanweb.com/rattery/nutrition.htm

As for the pregnant/nursing rat... increased protein is suggested

This is also another use for the formula I have suggested having on hand prior to delivery & in case Mom isn't nursing or producing milk. This formula is something Mom will drink as well & it will give her the additional protein needed. Some sites suggest KMR (for kittens) others suggest Esbilac (for puppies) & some suggest the human soy type baby formula. 

Good luck & keep us informed


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## Forensic

You can also give Mom hard boiled eggs on occasion for a nice protein/energy boost.


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## Kimmiekins

Yes.  You'll want to up her protein and fat.

Cooked chicken, eggs (I like to scramble 'em and sometimes add frozen veggies as well), baby food and cereal, little bits of soy or goat milk, oatmeal, yogurt, breads, etc. One of our rescues mamas went NUTS for chickpeas (garbonzo beans).

All good things, and she'll applicate them while nursing, as well.


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## Tampa0311

wow you guys are so amazing at this! I have no idea what I would be doing without you! Thank you so much!


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## Tampa0311

since mommy is hairless, and I have no idea who or what she mated with, what are odds my babies will be hairless?


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## Forensic

If the father is a sibling, the chance could be as high as 100 % and as low as 0%. :lol:

And rats can have multiple fathers for a litter, so each babe could, theoretically, have a different father.

Check the whiskers, though. Straight whiskers will probably be normally furred. Curly whiskers may indicate a curly or mock hairless coat...

Beyond that, I don't really know how to tell. :?


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## A1APassion

Tampa0311 said:


> since mommy is hairless, and I have no idea who or what she mated with, what are odds my babies will be hairless?


Unless Mom was mated with another hairless odds are you will end up with haired babies. It also has a lot to do with whether they are "true hairless" or the "mock hairless" type... 

(disclaimer) I'm still reading up on all of this so don't anyone read this as an expert reply, just posting on my personal experience with my current litter & what I read online

I am almost 100% sure my hairless was mated with the beautiful blueish grey male I have photos of in my album. We have four babies from that litter. One is a huge furball that is black with white feet & a tiny lightning bolt on his chest. Two are very sparsely furred that is an off white to cream color & the last one is dropping hair everyday. He is mostly bald now & what little bit of hair he has is a chocolate color, very fine texture & he has white feet, belly & tail tip. I will be updating photos again in a day or so.

Mine are in there 3rd week now & I'm still waiting to see what the outcome will be. But I knew that the black one would have a full coat from the time he was about a week & a half old.


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## Kimmiekins

"Mock hairless" are generally called Double Rex in communities. I believe that Double Rex is NOT related to the true hairless gene. True hairless is a recessive gene and will only show when two hairless are bred.

I don't know much about genetics, but I know that bit.


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## Forensic

Kimmiekins said:


> "Mock hairless" are generally called Double Rex in communities. I believe that Double Rex is NOT related to the true hairless gene. True hairless is a recessive gene and will only show when two hairless are bred.
> 
> I don't know much about genetics, but I know that bit.


Yes... I can't really tell which the mother is... It changes the genetics if we're dealing with the recessive hairless or the dominant rex. :lol:


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## Kimmiekins

I think this about summed it up perfectly:



> If the father is a sibling, the chance could be as high as 100 % and as low as 0%.


:lol:


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## Forensic

Kimmiekins said:


> I think this about summed it up perfectly:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the father is a sibling, the chance could be as high as 100 % and as low as 0%.
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:
Click to expand...

Isn't genetics a wonderful thing? :lol:


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## waffle

best of luck with your hairless babies!
mine are 2 weeks and starting to open their eyes.


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## Tampa0311

She is giving birth right now, and so far we have 6 adorable little pink balls of skin!


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## Tampa0311

ok, looks like we are holding out at 7 babies. How long should I wait before making sure that they are getting fed? I'm just looking for the white bellies right?


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## Kimmiekins

She may take a break from them for an hour (I've never seen a mama do it, but I would if I were them, lol!) and then start nursing. You're looking for white bands, called milk bands.


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## Tampa0311

she's not really keeping them all together very well. They are all kind of spread out. Wont they get cold? Should I put a lamp over the cage or something like that too keep them warm?


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## Forensic

Try putting them back with her.


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## ambernd

i want pictures!!!!!


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## Kimmiekins

I wouldn't put a lap over the cage... You wouldn't know how hot it made things and if it's a tank, it'll probably heat up too much.

Like Forensic said, when you see babies scattered, put them back towards mama. It's possible that she's walking with them attached, and they drop off.


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## ambernd

Kimmiekins said:


> I wouldn't put a lap over the cage... You wouldn't know how hot it made things and if it's a tank, it'll probably heat up too much.
> 
> Like Forensic said, when you see babies scattered, put them back towards mama. It's possible that she's walking with them attached, and they drop off.


I always find my rats babies all over the cage but i just put them back in the nest and it's fine. It's just that the babies are nursing then she will start walking with them atached and the end up on the other side of the cage when the let go.


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## A1APassion

If you find them scattered out too much... reduce the size of the cage so that it keeps the mom closer to the babies... I recall reading that on one of the tips for breeders. This will pretty much force her to remain close to them & prevent her from scattering the babies.

Did you get the formula ahead of time like it was suggested? If she ends up not feeding them or for some reason she is not able to feed them you will need to supplement right away or they will dehydrate & starve. Harsh reality, sometimes rat mommies don't do well... for one reason or another & you need to be preparred for those worse case scenarios.

Here is a good resource:
http://ratguide.com/breeding/figures/birth_to_weaning_figure_1.php


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## silverynitrate

I can't wait to see pictures!


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## Tampa0311

Ok, I promise pictures are coming very soon. I know everyone is anxious to see the little bundles of joy. Babies and mommy are doing very well. Both are eating quite frequently, and Mommy is cool about us handling the babies already. She splits them into two groups to feed them, however I have noticed that her nipples look like they are bleeding a little, is this normal? She sometimes leaves them scattered around, but never just one in a different area. In other words, they are always in at least groups of two. I love how when she wants to move them around she just rolls them like little hot dogs to wherever she wants them. 6 babies have dark eyes and one has red eyes. Hopefully we will have a mixure of Hairless and fuzzy. We tried sexing them today to see how many boys and girls we had, but they squirm too much , plus, we really have no idea what we are looking for"...is it a wee wee? No, I think thats a Va-JJ. Nope, wait....I have no idea." We give her a lot of Yogies...is that okay? I thought someone said yogurt was good for the mommy...?


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## Kimmiekins

Real yogurt would be MUCH better... Yogies are mostly sugar, more like candy.


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## Tampa0311

Pictures!!!!!
[img=http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/9343/whitebellieszt0.th.jpg]
[img=http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/2512/ratties021vq0.th.jpg]
[img=http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/2421/ourbabieszq3.th.jpg]
[img=http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/7039/newbornsok1.th.jpg]
[img=http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/748/friendsforeverph8.th.jpg]
[img=http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/2862/feedingtimehd7.th.jpg]
[img=http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/3161/curiousityer9.th.jpg]
[img=http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/8500/bigglesandbabespd4.th.jpg]


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## Kimmiekins

Those are some FANTASTIC milk bands! Go naked mama!  I hope it continues.


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## ambernd

Kimmiekins said:


> Those are some FANTASTIC milk bands! Go naked mama!  I hope it continues.



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## A1APassion

Tampa0311 said:


> We tried sexing them today to see how many boys and girls we had, but they squirm too much , plus, we really have no idea what we are looking for"...is it a wee wee? No, I think thats a Va-JJ. Nope, wait....I have no idea."


If you can't tell now you will be able to by the time they reach 3 weeks or so.... all that matters is that you find out by the end of the 5th week & get the boys away from the girls or you will have a whole bunch of new oppsies uh-ohs

It is a little tough to sex them when you don't know what to look for... basically you are looking for the anus & what is right above that. If the next thing you see above the anus is very close... it's a girl.... if it is further away... it's a boy. At about 2 to 3 weeks old you should be able to see the testes much better & at that point you can clear up any of the unsure feelings you did have.


here is a link with pictures of both mice & rats & how to sex them
http://www.afrma.org/sexing101.htm


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## ambernd

once you get ahang of sexing them it is actually really easy.... I was suprised how easy it was once i knew the difference. The boys have just a little bit more space inbetween their "parts" than girls do. So if there is a little space between there parts it's a girl and if it is a lot then it's a boy. 

**off to find good sites**


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## ambernd

http://www.ratz.co.uk/sexingrats.html

http://www.midwestrats.org/sexingrats.htm

http://www.ratmad.com/SexingRats.html


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## Tampa0311

I can't believe how cute they are!!!!!


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## Tampa0311

She steps on them quite a bit....isn't she going to hurt them if she keeps crushing the crap out of them, or maybe they will just have flat heads? lol that last part is a joke.....


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## ambernd

lol.... no she wont hurt them doing that.... sometimes i think my rat just forgets that she has babies and she will be standing on them and they will be squeking like crazy and she wont even move...lol.... but they will be fine, she's not hurting them by stepping on them. It's completly normal.


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## Tampa0311

ok good, because they make an awful lot of noise when she does that, and she doesn't even care. Its kind of funny. My boyfriend and I will be in another room and hear them squealing and say, "oh Bigglesworth is standing on her babies again" I took the most adorable picture of all the babies laying side by side on my bed this morning, and then my camera died, so I will get it up here tonight when I get home from work. You can see the definition in their toes today and little tiny whiskers. Its just amazing how quickly they develop. We are normally the type of people who like to sleep in pretty late (which is why we dont have dogs) but since our babies were born, we get up early everyday to see what they look like. It's so COOL!


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## Kimmiekins

In a week or so, you'll easily be able to tell if they are male or female. Female rats have nipples, males do not. You can't always see the nipples perfectly at first, but they'll show soon.

Glad you're enjoying them. Watching rittens grow is an amazing thing. In a few weeks, you'll look at them in awe and think about how they were tiny little "jellybeans" and now they're rats!


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## Tampa0311

I have one baby that does not have dark eyes like the rest and is also a much lighter pink than the others. Does that mean she will have white fur and red eyes? Has anyone ever heard of a hairless rat with red eyes?


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## reachthestars

Yup, I actually had a foster rat that was hairless with pink eyes . Hairless can be any color, the only difference is that they're missing hair XD


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## Tampa0311

Kimmiekins- I gave mommy garbonzo beans today and she went crazy too! She loves them! Thanks for the tip! She would not eat chicken though. She kind of ran away from it. Oh well. We'll stick to the nuts and beans


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## ambernd

http://ratforum.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=2869.html


check out his link made by renay....


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## Kimmiekins

Glad she loved the beans!  It's something we came across accidentally, but it seems to be a hit with the mommies!


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## Lerat

Well congrats on you naked babies I also bought a hairless girl who was preggo she had 5 healthy fat babies who are now 2 weeks old


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## A1APassion

must be something in the air seeing that so many hairless girls are coming home preggers

My crew is 34 days old today. All the boys are going into the newly dedicated Boy's Only Clubhouse today. It's going to be hard on one little guy since he is such a Mamma's boy. They haven't nursed from her in about 3 weeks but he sure stays snuggled up with her... much more than the others.


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## Tampa0311

14 days old today! They are so adorable! here are some pics of one of them. Can anyone tell me if they are going to be hairless or rex or furry?

[img=http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/9593/day14sa9.th.jpg]
[img=http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/3937/2weekskv3.th.jpg]
[img=http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/3154/14day1cr3.th.jpg]


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## Forensic

Probably hairless, if their coat is that thin.


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## Tampa0311

How long before they lose that hair? They are 14 days old today.


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## savveth

the main way to tell if a baby is a rex is their whiskers. The whiskers will be curly if they are rex.


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## A1APassion

Looks like my babies that came from a hairless Mom.

Mine will be 6 weeks old this Friday. The ones that never really grew fur (like the one you show in the photos) started losing their fur at about 4 weeks & from what I read they have a molt at 8 weeks. I have two that are completely pink like their Mom & one that is a dark Berkshire (white belly, feet & tail tip). He still has some face hair, on his sides & along his lower back. The two pinks differ slightly. The girl is nearly as naked as her Mother now & the pink brother has kept some fuzz all over but very very fine texture... just like chenille.

I have read opposing discussion as to Rex, Double Rex & Hairless. (& I've also heard the term "poor rex" & "mock hairless") but for the most part, if it doesn't have hair or if it is patchy people call them hairless, if they have curly hair they are called rex & then the ones that have hair have several variations: standard, satin, velveteen, rex & harley. 

Hairless do have curled whiskers just like the Rex rats that keep their fur but it is curly. 

My best guess is that your rat babies that are shown in the photos will lose their hair, just as mine did. They may keep some in patches, may even grow some back & lose it in other areas or maybe even go completely naked, but I don't think they will grow a full coat that will curl.


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