# HELP ME PLEASE!!!!



## ambernd (Apr 17, 2007)

yea this is amber (you might have met me in the breeding section) and I was wondering, how many rats do you think could fit in a 45 gallon tank? It is not actually a tank but it's like a shelf/dresser and it would have 3 stories to it. (each being as big as a 20 gallon tank).... I would have to cut holes in each level so they could get from one floor to the other. But just let me know how many rats you think would be comforatable in it!!! I will get some pictures of it up as soon as i can.. thank you!!!


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

take the dimensions of it and run it through the rat calculator that is stickied at the top of this section. that will tell you how many rats can live comfortably in it.


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## bubsybob (Apr 1, 2007)

off the top of my head.... 1 rat


nahhh im just jerkin ya, i would say maybe 3-4?


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

what kind of front are you going to have on it? tanks are not really the best to keep rats in.


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## ambernd (Apr 17, 2007)

im going to put mesh on the front of it and have a door on each level... i will have to get a picture it's hard to understand what i'm describing..sorry


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## ambernd (Apr 17, 2007)

now here is a pic of it... notice my rattie (cheese) on second shelf to help determain the size.


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## ambernd (Apr 17, 2007)

oh by the way i have hammocks and stuff i could put in there....


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

Wouldn't know for sure until you take a measuring tape and measure the length width and height. 

What you are thinking of making is a grotto style cage XD You need some water sealant paint for that, and be sure the wire you get is the green coated hardware cloth. You need to paint it like crazy as rat urine is very acidic and will eat through wood in no time. You could also cover the entire inside with sticky linolium that you can buy at the hardware store.

The only thing I wonder about is if that is deep enough. I'm geussing it will hold 3-4 rats if it is deep enough. If not it doesn't matter how tall it is, there isn't enough space  I would need to know the measurements to be sure.


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## ambernd (Apr 17, 2007)

length- 27in width-11 1/2in height- 46in


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## Brain (Jul 15, 2007)

I'm in the making of making a grotto as well, I guess its going to be a race of who can finish first eh? Lol.
Were pretty much at the same starting post.
The bookcase looks great and maybe if you want, you can always make more shelves so its not three tall areas.
But that also looked like compacted wood, which is hard to drill things into because they fall out and the wood breaks around the drill hole. :\
I tried it with white ones and it made me sad. You can also thrift store shop for a cheap dresser or book case, dressers just pull the doors out and use the left over wood as shelves? 

Good luck!


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## ambernd (Apr 17, 2007)

Brain said:


> I'm in the making of making a grotto as well, I guess its going to be a race of who can finish first eh? Lol.


 lol.... i went to a different calculater that lets you put in shelf sizes and stuff and it said that it would hold 3 rats comfortably and 4 rats maximum.... but I only need it for 3 rats so i guess it worked good! lol.... but if anyone thinks it could hold more or less let me know!! But when i get the time i think i'm going to go with brains idea and mabey put a couple more shelves in there... what does everyone else think?


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

11 1/2 inches isn't really deep enough for rats. However, you could (theoretically) take two, remove one back, connect them somehow, and then it would be deep enough. I've had weird dreams about making grottos like that, though I don't think I ever will.


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## Brain (Jul 15, 2007)

I did the calculator and it said 4 rats for me, I'm planning on three females and females aren't as large as males can get but by the looks of it I'm sure it will be an ok size.


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## ambernd (Apr 17, 2007)

kimmiekins i don't really understand what you are trying to say there...? but 12 inches is the depth of my aquariums and they fit in it fine... the book shelf is actually just a little over 11 1/2.....


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

There should be 2 cubic feet of space per rat (some will say 1.5, but it's rather small and not recommended). If your cage is 11 1/2 in depth, then it will never been enough space.

http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/information/habitat/cagecalculator/

Input it in there, and you're told:

"You should consider increasing the dimensions indicated in red to at least 12 inches (30.5cm). The current dimensions are too small for adult rats."

Many rat owners don't even believe even 12 inches is enough depth. It's very, very narrow. That would be like living in a room that's the size of a closet. Even if it was wide enough or high enough, it wouldn't matter because you need depth. So do rats. Height is great... But only if you have enough depth and length.


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## ambernd (Apr 17, 2007)

Brain said:


> I did the calculator and it said 4 rats for me, I'm planning on three females and females aren't as large as males can get but by the looks of it I'm sure it will be an ok size.


 yea i am planning on useing it for my 3 females as well.... i build a cage a few months ago for my boys and it's a 20gal tank with a topper on it..... they like it alot. But I'm just using this one for 3 females... Well 2 adults (cheese and Swiss) and the other is only 5 days old(Nacho)!! But the 20gal tank with the topper on it is now holding 2 boys... do you think it could hold 3? Because I reallt wanna keep cheese's other baby....


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

20 gallon tanks are only big enough for one rat :/ And tanks aren't good homes at all. Amonia builds up quick and can cause respitory disease unless you are cleaning EVERY DAY. But you have a topper, so is the topper about the size of the 20 gallon? Then it will hold two but no more D:

A larger cage won't be that expensive. Sounds like you need to seriously upgrade anyway. I hate tanks personally.


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## ambernd (Apr 17, 2007)

well they mostly stay at the top anyway...they just stash their food at the bottom.. =) ...... does anyone know of a cage that is cheap and that can hold 3 male rats????


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

hagen chinchilla cages. i love them as a starter cage. and you can find them in classifeds for pretty dang cheap if you keep your eyes open for them. they can hold a maxium of 3 boys or 4 girls. girls normally have to be around 8 weeks though to not squeeze through the bars. even new at the pet store its only $100 which seems fairly low given the amount of rats and the customabilty of the cage. just about any toy will fit in it and if the space in use wisely 3 boys can be very happy in it. you just need to make sure that each has a place to go away from the others if they want. and they are SO EASY to expand. just get another one and zip tie to the top. 

here's a few pictures of some of my set-ups with it:








the space wasn't as wisely used as it could be here. for the most part the ropes were ignored (so much for my rattie jungle gym idea...) and i had yet to cover the second floor in lino tiles which is needs as the spacing on the bars is wide to be walking on. 









this was my set-up in april. there's three cages and all are zip-tied together. there's a hole in the second tray for them to get in and out of. my current set-up is similar but the second tray is the second level instead of the thrid which makes it much easier to clean. i've found that they like having a potty there too. 









this is the monster of a cage i ended up with (over expanding.. ). there's 4 cages zip-tied together here. the cage only stayed like this for a couple weeks then i downsized to save my own life. the cage was wobbly nad though secured to wall still felt unstable to me when cleaning. also the floor was not exactly even in the old apartment and cleaning that top level on a step ladder and you were taking you're life in your hands... also, when it was this size i actually would lose some rats inside the cage... now that its only 3 teirs i can normally find them all within a few minutes. 

the following is close up shots of when it was 4 tiers so you can see all the toys i was able to put in there. 








bottom 2








top 2

i don't have any pictures of my current set ups. i have a one tier going for stewie (foster boy) and Bribery (my neutered boy-the only one safe to keep stewie company), my 3 tier that has a slightly different set up then when it was a 4 tier and my sick cage for tween. i also can't seem to find older pictures of the cage(s) to show previous set-ups. but there is a lot of different ways and toys you cna put in there.


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

You could get another topper, rip the top off of the current boy topper and stack the other topper on top of the current topper >_> Secure with zip ties, found at the hardware store.


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## Sparker (Jun 17, 2007)

I guess the question is:

If you were them, would you want to live in it?

You would probably want enough room to have a bathroom and not have to smell it/see it all of the time... 

A kitchen/dinning room...

Personal space to get away from your roommates...

A game/living room...

Etc.


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