# How many of you have long haired rats aka harley coated? What is their temperament?



## luvmy4rats (Nov 29, 2013)

I did't realize long haired rats were so hard to find. From what I've read about them they can have health problems, protein sensitivities, and aggression. The following is what I found online: "_Harley rats aren’t bread by ethical breeders because they have an aggressive gene tied in the line. Last I heard there were a few people trying to work on the line but they wont adopt out to people because of the aggression issues."_

My long haired rat has wispy soft fur, smells unbelievably amazing, and has fluffy cheeks. He is aggressive towards other male rats and has bitten us a few times. Should his aggression be blamed on his on his mutation? This is a tricky one because he is not the only rat who has bitten me. Once a beautiful black variegated boy with a headstripe ripped open my hand!

Do any of you own long haired rats? Are your harley coated males aggressive towards other males or humans? Are the females also aggressive?


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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

I dont think I'd blame the mutation but apparently hormonal aggression is in the lines. I'm sure people will continue to breed out the bad traits.
From what I've read the original Harley was just a pet store rat so it's no surprise there are issues to breed out since she was prolly from feeder lines and feeders are usually very poorly bred.

I've never owned one but I think they're adorable. 
http://paperheartrats.com/harley.html
You might find this page interesting it has some good information on it.


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## beas.rats (Aug 19, 2016)

I don't think the mutation is to blame. If they're not neutered, male rats in general can be aggressive. As long as he's not hurting the other males, you might be able to wait it out, but it's easy and relatively cheap to neuter them. My young harley girl is sweet and shy.


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## luvmy4rats (Nov 29, 2013)

beas.rats said:


> I don't think the mutation is to blame. If they're not neutered, male rats in general can be aggressive. As long as he's not hurting the other males, you might be able to wait it out, but it's easy and relatively cheap to neuter them. My young harley girl is sweet and shy.


Do you think your girl's shyness will go away? When you say she is shy, in what way? My rat doesn't come running hooking himself to the side of the cage like my other rats do, but he will come lazely to the side of the cage to say hello when I call out his name. He enjoys spending time on me and will lounge and sleep under my t shirt. He also takes food out of my mouth (I'll put a big piece of egg or toast with unpasteurized honey that he gently takes). My rat will also take naps with me on the couch under my shirt and not go exploring like my other rats. 

My guy is a lone rat and I'd love to get him a spayed female but I think finding one of those available for rehoming would be an impossible task!


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## beas.rats (Aug 19, 2016)

My harley girl explores less in unknown surroundings, and is hesitant to new foods and people. She gets sleepy when she's comfortable but can get super excited. I do think she will get over it, or at least improve. She's already improved since we got her. Has your little guy improved? Is he your only rat? If you're concerned with price, it's definently cheaper to neuter him, get another male, and neuter him too. (Neutering not only makes them less territorially aggressive but also has some health benefits). Or, if you want to get a female, i would actually neuter your male and leave her be (unless you want to prevent mammory tumors and hormones, in which case, i would spay her too). I just suggest doing your research before keeping a non-neutered male and a spayed female, he might be aggressive, but i have no idea.


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

I love my harley girl Esme <3 She is the sweetest most chill girl in the world. 










This was a baby pic of Esme, she is grown up now and has babies of her own. Her daughter has stolen my heart as one of the sweetest things in the entire world. i actually posted a story about it here: http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?334610-A-cute-quot-why-I-love-rats-quot-story


As someone who breeds harleys I would say that whatever site you found saying no ethical breeder breeds them is nonsense... There are not alot of people working on harley because they do have some health issues and are better left to more experienced breeders to work on and improve. They are also a newer variety. 

Temperament is genetic. But it is not tied to a specific variety, it is based on the line.

The issue is the same among ALL new varieties. What happens is that a variety is discovered and it is something new and cool. So alot of unethical people will race to be one of the firsts with it, the first with such and such color, markings, etc... In doing so they throw all of the work it takes to develop it out of the window. They breed and sell babies that are not ideal temperament. 

It sucks. People suck. 

But that doesn't mean the variety itself is bad, just that alot of lines are. Find a good experienced breeder of them and you will have lovely rats. But still being a newer variety it can take time to really develop it into an ideal pet. Silvermane also has this issue with many lines being either just awful to a bit nervous.



> If they're not neutered, male rats in general can be aggressive


I really disagree with this. Males should not be aggressive or hormonal. That is not normal or ever to be expected. It is because of bad careless breeding. Temperament as well as hormonal issues is genetic. 

But male hormonal aggression does pop up for some people. In those cases there is really nothing you can do for him other than a neuter. How old is your boy?


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## luvmy4rats (Nov 29, 2013)

^^^What colour coat does your girl have?

I can't neuter my boy because he has recurrent myco flare ups. He also may have lung scarring (he chirps when he hiccups). He's bitten me twice with the first being worse than the second. With the second bite he looked confused when I said, "Ahhh!" because I knew what was coming. At that point his teeth grazed my skin instead of piercing it and he probably bit me because I had the remnants of my other bucks urine on the hand he bit.

My rat is ten months old and I got him when he was eight months old. He is probably the least desired colour of harley coated rats as he is white with a brown smudge on his nose and pink eyes. Despite this I fell in love with him even before I met him!

I also suspect my boy has kidney issues because his urine smells off and tested it with a 10 parameter urine test strip. The test strip showed higher levels of both protein and ketones and was negative for glucose and nitrites (nitrites in the urine can suggest a UTI).


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

My girl is mink. 

Do you have a pic of your boy? Sounds Siamese/Himi. Siamese is actually my favorite rat. My dream rat is a Siamese Dwarf Harley and someday I will have one!

What protein % are you feeding him? Too much protein can cause kidney issues and harley often need less protein as well.


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## luvmy4rats (Nov 29, 2013)

^^^Your girl's coat colour is so pretty.

I thought my rat might be Himi but he doesn't have a brown bottom like my other sweet Himi who is no longer with us. He is fed Harlan Teklad 14% Blocks and is given fresh fruits and veggies daily like my other rats and of course filtered water. What is really strange is his urine can be really strong smelling and gross some days and other days it smells normal. Maybe he's from Mars?

I don't know why this pic is so small, but it can be clicked on to see it expanded:


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

Thanks. I do think she is so pretty.  Too bad her daughter ended up being black & her son is burmese. I didn't get any mink clones lol But her burmese son is probably the most beautiful rat I have ever seen in my life. Though he is not a harley. 

bad pic lol










Your boy is so lovely! Has a very nice coat. 

Siamese and Himi can both be a bit meh, they got very popular and lots of bad breeding out there so it is actually pretty hard to get ones with nice points. So you will often find them with just nose points (as opposed to nose, bum & feet). Usually because they are from marked lines. As he is an adult you can't even be sure he is himi or Siamese. Though since he is so white and his point is so light, I'd guess Himi though it is not certain.


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## beas.rats (Aug 19, 2016)

I think, for the biting, when he's about to bite you, make a loud sound like you did with the second bite. That will make him associate biting with a bad sound, so hopefully he will stop. 

This is my little girl, Juniper.


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## luvmy4rats (Nov 29, 2013)

^^^Juniper is a pretty fuzzbutt with wirey short whiskers like my guy. What coat does she have?


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## beas.rats (Aug 19, 2016)

i'm not sure what it's called, but she's all white with brown on the top of her head, not her chin, and has a white streak on her head and a brown spot on her shoulder.


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

beas.rats said:


> i'm not sure what it's called, but she's all white with brown on the top of her head, not her chin, and has a white streak on her head and a brown spot on her shoulder.


She is variegated. IDK what color. She looks more rex though?


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## luvmy4rats (Nov 29, 2013)

Here are a few more photos of my rat. The one photo shows how fine his coat is:


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## beas.rats (Aug 19, 2016)

We thought she was Rex when we got her, but our older rat is Rex and she is definently more fluffy, wispy, and has thinner hair. ^ Your little guy is so fluffy and cute!


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## beas.rats (Aug 19, 2016)

Here you can see her fur next to our rex:
it's not a super great photo but you can see how her hair is so much wispier


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## luvmy4rats (Nov 29, 2013)

^^^Your girl looks like she has a wirey looking coat which surprised me because I've never seen a rat like her before. Is her fur soft?


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## Andromeda (Apr 28, 2016)

beas.rats said:


> Here you can see her fur next to our rex:
> it's not a super great photo but you can see how her hair is so much wispier


Rexes can kind of be all over the place with fur type. xP Some are super curly, others are just kinda wavy...the curly whiskers definitely make me think she's probably a rex.  Super cute, regardless. :3


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## Emergent (Jun 20, 2014)

The founder of my breeding lines is a Harley. I have pictures of him lying in a hammock with his own babies of 4 weeks, so not that aggressive. His own 8 male children grew up to be a) 5 of them nasty to other males, and 3 of them wouldn't hurt a fly... not even a strange male, which I haven't seen before.


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## blackjack (Feb 5, 2018)

Andromeda said:


> Rexes can kind of be all over the place with fur type. xP Some are super curly, others are just kinda wavy...the curly whiskers definitely make me think she's probably a rex.  Super cute, regardless. :3


I can definitely attest to that. My first rex had tight curls. I had two brothers who looked similar to beas.rats one. Then I had one girl who had more like light waves than curls. All were considered rexes and had the curled whiskers.


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## Marianna (Sep 10, 2021)

I've never had rats before when i bought an old pair (they had been in a pet shop for 1.5 years and the shop owner wanted to give them to a snake) for about 4 euros. Poor things were in horrible conditions and the female (named Robert because i was said she's a boy and i thought (s)he's just really fat ) had 7 babies next morning. She was a wonderful creature - brave and friendly from the first time. She had tumor in her nipple after the breeding and in spite of the successful surgery another tumor developed in her and she died. The girls are friendly like their mother - can't scrape them off myself when they are out of the cage but most of the boys, like their fater, are cautious and shy but super-curious. And they are absolutely non-agressive. Sometimes they wrestle but never hurt each other.


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