# Do Tumours... (She's Gone)



## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

Dotty has had a lump on her side for awhile now and recently it has been steadily getting bigger - I know her time is nearly up but I just don't like to admit it to myself  - and I've noticed that she isn't as active as usual when I get her out, this may seem like a silly question but is that due to the lump/tumour?

The lump is behind her left front leg it doesn't seem to hinder her movement or flexabilty in anyway.

Just thinking of what the horrible lump could be is making me sad now 


EDIT - Saying that she's just come out of her hidy box now and is having a sniff round. She must've known she's being mentioned. Lol.


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## rat_ratscal (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours...*

can you post a picture? it could be a tumor or an abcess, sorry i'm not too good with telling the differences just by description


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours...*

It could just be that she's older. Usually, tumors don't affect rats too much, especially if they're not hindering their movements at all. Though, the larger a tumor gets, the more blood supply it takes up (thus why it's highly recommended to have them removed within about a week of first spotting them).


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours...*

I thought afterwards that it may be because she's getting old, she is 10 months old now.

I know that I should've had it removed as soon as I took her to the vets, but I was unemployed at the time and had very little money so couldn't afford to pay for the operation and after care treatment - my parents wouldn't pay for it either as they'd already helped me out by paying Â£30 to have her eye sorted out and treated.
I also didn't want to put such a little body under such stress of an operation or even worse lose her.
As long as Dotty is happy within herself, then I'm happy. Soon after I posted this as I said she came out of her box and started having a wander round and clambering up me.

Can I also add that the lump seems to be under one of her nipples, I was reading about something similar on here and when the vet looked at this other rats lump milk came out. It also looks like two lumps sat next to each other.

Sorry about the bad quality of the picture, but it's the best one I have of her lump - Getting a picture of the girls is alot easier said than done!











Please don't anyone have a go at me. I love my babies so much and they are spoilt rotten, but sometimes you just can't do what's best for them.
As I said she is happy within herself.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours...*

Oh my gosh, only 10 months old? She's not old at all, she's still a baby! 

She'd probably pull through the surgery with flying colors. As long as you have a rat-savvy vet who has performed surgeries on rats before, she'll be just fine. The key to any successful surgery with rats is pain management, and a course of antibiotics after the surgery. If possible, you really should have that tumor removed. I can't believe she's only 10 months old  Mammary tumors are the number one reason why I spay my girls as soon as they're big enough (approx. 3 months old).


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours...*

I'm not sure if she got the lump from having babies - I noticed it about 4 months after she'd given birth.

Well I have a job now now so I may consider having it removed after christmas (I'm just hoping that it isn't to big by then) and I'll still have my happy lil one eyed girl for a fair few more years.
My vet is very good, I always make sure that I see the vet who owns the surgery as he has alot more experience.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours...*

You really should get the tumor removed as soon as possible. The longer a tumor's left, the bigger they grow and the more blood supply they take up. That makes it harder for the vet (and therefore more expensive), the recovery period is longer and possibly more uncomfortable for the rat, and the chance for the tumor to grow back is greater.


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## Darksong17 (Feb 11, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours...*

I agree with Night, she is still very young yet and you should have the surgery done as soon as possible. Do you need any help finding a good recommended rat vet for the surgery? I have some vet lists you can look at and see if any are near you.


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours...*

I've just had a talk with my mom and decided that I'll take her to have her lump removed after christmas when I'll have more time and work will have settled down. I also don't think I can bare to not have my little girl with me, her sister and daughter at christmas.

I'm hoping it'll only cost around Â£100 - Â£150 to get her sorted out...but she's worth the money whatever it may come to (I'll just have to work my socks off for the next few months  )
So good news is that the future doesn't look as bleak as it did.

Thanks for the offer Darksong17 but I think I'll stick with the place that I know (and knows us) best. The vet that I usually go to does seem to know his stuff.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours...*

Good luck and keep us updated on Dotty


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## Darksong17 (Feb 11, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours...*

No problem! Best of luck with her and as Night said definitely keep us up to date


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours...*

Thanks for your help guys (you've gave me the kick I needed) and I'll definitely keep you updated.

I've just gave them a big bowl of fruit and veggies, as they're my babies


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours...*

Thinking about it now, my main worry seems to be that she won't pull through...Do any of you guys have any idea what the chances are that she WON'T get through it...?

As I said she's around 10 months old, isn't under or over weight and you've seen as best a picture as I can get of the lump.
Altho this is my main worry, I'm still going to go through with it as I'll never know unless I try. If anything does happen to her during surgery at least I know that she passed away while I was trying to save her life  

Also how soon can I introduce her back to her cagemates? I really don't have a spare cage that I could keep her in, unless I went out and broughta large(ish) hamster cage. As I can't imagine she'll be all that active until she's fully recovered.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours...*

At 10 months old, if she's healthy, she'll pull through it. Again, it all depends on your vet and his/her experience with rat surgery. Some rats do harbor hidden issues like heart problems that only arise in situations like surgery where anesthetic is present, but that's fairly unlikely. 

It's a good idea to keep her away from the others for about 4-6 days. Not only because of the possibility of the other ratties messing with the incision, but also because rats shouldn't move around a whole lot after surgery. Just make sure you get a course of antibiotics (about a week's worth) and some pain medication (2-5 days worth). 

You might want to take this opportunity to purchase a (rat appropriate) spare cage. They come in handy in so many ways and in many situations.

My 3-year old girl, Hazel, just had exploratory surgery a couple weeks ago. She wasn't fazed at all by it, and recovered beautifully


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

Well on early Christmas morning, I noticed that Dotty had an open wound on the lump  
I took her to the vets today and she explained that it's due to an absess. So I decided that she's going to have the operation next Thursday (If my mom will take her in for me as I'm going to be away, otherwise it'll be the following week).
The vet was really nice (considering I started crying in the surgery  ) and she's used to/has operated on ratties before and seems to know what she's talking about. I originally didn't want to get it done, but when the vet said that she'd otherwise have to be put to sleep, I just started crying and decided that it HAD to be done as I can't bare to lose my baby.

She's given me some medicene to give to the girls as Dotty sounded raspy and also to help her wound, which I have to give by mouth which is easier said than done :lol: Dotty had to be wrapped in a towel and held by my dad, while Roxy and Doris had the shock of thier lives as what they thought was a tasty syringe entered their cage, it turned to be full of nasty stuff when they attempted to eat it.
I'm really happy at the minute as my girl is going to be better.
Please send your good thoughts to Dotty next Thursday to get through her operation.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

A tumour removal is not a super-difficult operation, and at her age should be just fine.  She's a young adult, not an older compromised girl.

Your vet probably has her on baytril to prevent infection of the abscess. I am glad you are getting it removed because an abscess will shorten her life dramatically. 

I often keep my rats that have had surgery separated overnight so they can sleep and relax, and put them back in with their cagemates the next day. Just watch for any undue attention to the incision site by her cagemates.

If you find your girl is active and unhappy by herself, then by all means put her back with her friends right away. Often they will just be happier to be Home and will curl up and sleep part of the night/day away.


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*



lilspaz68 said:


> A tumour removal is not a super-difficult operation, and at her age should be just fine.  She's a young adult, not an older compromised girl.
> 
> Your vet probably has her on baytril to prevent infection of the abscess. I am glad you are getting it removed because an abscess will shorten her life dramatically.
> 
> ...


I'm just scared as it's quite big and the vet reckons that a blood vessel is near it. But on the plus side she's got alot of lose skin round the lump so they should be able to patch it up nicely.
She said that they should be seperated for 10 days otherwise the others probably will undo her stitches. I'll get them out every night together though and give Dotty plenty to cuddle upto. I may put them together for a few hours in the cage, but only when I'm at home (Doris is a pain for chewing and I imagine she'd be the sort who would attempt to undo stitches).

Yes, she's on baytril at the moment, as are Roxy and Doris.

Sorry, my spelling was awful on my last post, I'm just so excited that my girl is going to be happy and healthy again.
Oh, the operation will be next Thursday as I just rang and booked it at the vets. I have a good feeling about this, so know that I'm doing the right thing.

Oh and will she need to go on a special diet while she's recovering? Or will her normal food be okay for her?

EDIT - The vet also said that the tumour was most likely caused due to hormones by her being pregnant and having babies when I brought her.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

Normal food will be just fine. You can offer baby food or baby cereal just to make sure she eats if you like.

Make sure your vet sends you home with 2-3 days of pain meds (metacam is good). If not you have an uncomfortable rat and possible stitch picking.

Is your vet going to use stitches, staple or glue on the outer skin layer?

Sadly tumours grow by the blood supply, that is where they get their nutrients. Its part of the problem. It can cause anemia when its large or has a big blood supply, this is why they lose weight so drastically.

I had a girl have a tumour removal (my first) and it was only a bit smaller than she was. She was fine, and over 2 years old as well.

Ummm...in about 3-4 days the incision is well on its way to healed so 10 days is excessive by far. You will see how insanely fast it is 

Your first rat surgery?


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

I'll write that down on my list of things to do/ask.

She said that she'll be using stitches, but will be using them mainly on the inside and as few possible on the out.
I've noticed that she's become thinner. I just want next week to hurry up and get it over with.

I think Dotty's is about the size of her head/abit smaller than a golf ball. I feel so awful leaving it this long to get it removed, but I was unemployed and had hardly any money when I first got her checked out, so Â£70+ was alot of money to me.
Yeah, I think I'll just let time tell. I'll know when she's ready to go back - as all rattie mummys know this stuff  

Yeah my first and hopefully my last!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

She will be using internal dissolvable stitches inside, then regular stitches on the outside. My vet uses glue and if she really has to a few staples (which I and they hate).

Ask your vet what pain meds she gave during surgery. I would keep her on abs (baytril) for 7 days afterwards to prevent infection.

She could be groggy when she gets home, anesthesia seems to know them for a loop for a day. The next day by mid-afternoon she should be feeling more normal.

A sign of pain is sucking in the gut, and sometimes twisting..its called the Owwie stretch. They hurt. IF your vet won't give you pain meds to go home with (some won't ) then PM me and I'll help you figure out sometime OTC for her.

Since she's soo young you have automatically lengthened her life.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

I have pics I can link you to, if you want to see what to expect when they come home.


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

She may use glue in the end. But she did say stitches at the consultation. I'd prefer glue though.

She may advise me to keep her on it. Actually I think she did as she gave me quite alot earlier and said that it should las for a week and also after surgery.
Well she'll be staying the night as she's a little fuzzy (as the vet called her, lol) then I'll be able to pick her up on the Friday if everything is okay.

I'm hoping that'll she'll give me some. But that's really nice of you and I'll be sure to PM you  
I know and I feel so happy right now - it feels like I'm getting a new rattie. I'm so pleased I'm doing the right thing for her.

Oh that'd be great if you could show me the pictures. Just so I can be prepared.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

Here is that first surgery I was talking about...it was huge, much bigger than your girls.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/rattiluv/medical/freya3.jpg

Here is the Owwie stretch, dramatically shown by Aura after her e-spay
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/rattiluv/medical/Owwwweeeeee-1.jpg

Here is Ceres the surgery that convinced me that I should start spaying when I could afford it...she had one larger lump and 2 small seed tumours as well
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/rattiluv/medical/Ceresafterhersurgery.jpg

Vesta's incision after her spay, most vets are not as neat...a spay is considered a much more invasive surgery than a tumour removal since they go into the abdominal cavity.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/rattiluv/medical/Vestasincision.jpg

Selene a big fat PEW girl had an inguinal (groin area) tumour removed...staples were put in since it was a spot she might pick at and it was a jagged incision.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/rattiluv/medical/Selenesstaples4daysafter.jpg

Rafiki, dozing after her surgery...she's just sleepy not sick. She perked up when I put her back in with her sister. 
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/rattiluv/medical/Rafikithedayafterhertumourectomy.jpg


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

I've got to say that some of them pictures look nasty!
It's definitely prepared me for when I go pick Dotty back up. That first picture looks like it was quite nasty. 

Does it take long for the fur to grow back?
And the Owwie stretch means that she is in alot of pain...?
Also how long did you seperate your girls for after they'd had surgery?

Thanks for the pictures.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

First girl I followed the vets advice and had her separated for a week...she was so depressed by then.

Ceres was put back right away but she had issues with her incision and spent part of it on my lap in strange homemade bandages to keep her from picking. I gave her metacam earlier than 24 hours and she was fine after that.

Vesta and all my newly spayed girls went back in with Dilbert their neutered bf. No problems and they were active and silly right away.

Selene went back in with her cagemates right away but she was picking at the staples...my rats hate staples, so I try not to use them anymore.

Rafiki I kept separating overnight, she was my 2nd tumour removal ever. She was sleepy that night and the next day was much brighter and happier, so I put her back with her lonely sister.

The owwie stretch isn't usually that bad...you will see them suck in their gut and twist to relieve the discomfort. But it is always a sign of pain.

I wanted you to be prepared for what you would see, BUT do remember this, rats heal sooo incredibly fast. Within 3 days they are seriously healing


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

I may follow the vets advice, as I said I think Roxy would be okay with her, it's just Doris.
But I'll still let them socialize every night, maybe put her in the cage for a few hours a day etc until she's fully healed.

I just hope that she doesn't attack the stitches and that the vet gives me some pain meds.

That definitely wasn't what I was expecting so I'm grateful for you helping me. Now i won't wonder what the heck they've been doing to my baby.
Does the fur take long to grow back?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

depends on the rat, but it can grow back strangely...in tufts.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

Post surgery I've known fur to start growing back within a couple weeks but sometimes it's taken 3 months to grow back fully. Their little bald bits give them a cute 'war wound' look


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

I look forward to having a half hairless and half furred rat then  At least she'll have Doris and Roxy to cuddle up and keep warm with though.

I'm going away tomorrow night til late Thursday morning (My mom is taking Dotty to the vets for me) so tonight is our last proper bonding time, as I've got work in the morning and I'm going straight from there to where I'm spending new year. It's really starting to dawn on me now what Dotty has got to go through and I'm really hoping that everything goes smoothly, I don't want to start the new year with bad news.
I'm just so worried that something will go wrong either during or after the surgery  

Most of the people I talk to just think she's a rat and have no idea how much I love the little fuzzy and don't want to lose her


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

I lost friends when I did my first rat surgery. They were fine with me having them as pets but to spend that much money on a $6 pet???

I stopped speaking to them soon after :roll:

That is why ratforums are invaluable, to all those people in the same situations. We all feel that they aren't disposable and when you get an animal you MUST provide vetcare and a humane ending if necessary, no matter how much they initially cost.

Give your girly a kiss for me too!


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

My brothers think I'm stupid getting it done, I also think my partner thinks I'm abit stupid to.
My mom sort of agrees but dosen't...she looked at Dotty yeaterday and said that it's time (to have her put to sleep) but I told her I'm having her operated on whether she thinks that or not. Surprisingly my dad hasn't said much about it, altho if it was his money that was paying for it I'm sure he'd have a few things to say. Hes even helping me to give Dotty her medication.

I'm so glad I joined here, I just wish I had done sooner. It's great to be able to talk to people who love their ratties as much as I do mine and also get some great advice and help.

I've just got her out to have a run around on the bed, altho she's hiding in a cereal box with Roxy at the moment


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## rattusnorvegicus (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

good luck and best wishes :sad:


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

Thanks rattusnorvegicus.

Well she's going in tomorrow and by tomorrow afternoon I should hopeflly know if she's okay.
I'm just glad my mom is taking her in for me as I really don't think that I could hand her over.
I told her to be strong and pull through it before I left, so now only time can tell.


EDIT - I also meant to ask, that once she is ready to go back into the cage with Doris and Roxy again, will I have to do intros or should they just accept her as normal...?


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

It depends on how long she is out of the cage. Sometimes girls will just accept them back and sometimes you have to re-introduce. I would keep your Dotty's medical cage right next to Roxy and Doris's cage though just to be safe. That way they will continue smelling her.


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## rattusnorvegicus (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

the clock is ticking ...tick...tick...tick...

I think you should re-introduce the rats to her again, just in case to be safe, but I recemend doing that after your girl gets some rest after the surgery until the anathesia wears off. good luck (again)


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

I intend to keep Dotty in her seperate cage next to the main cage and will get them out every night together so that they can still socialise.
Oh and I definitely intend to keep them seperated for a few days, Dotty will need her rest and I don't want anyone picking at stitches.

Don't I know that the clock is ticking :lol: I just want tomorrow afternoon to be here so i know how she is.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

Definately keep them within sight, at least. I've made that mistake with my poorly eye rat - she was separated for a couple of days, reintroduced and they loved her. I had to separate her again - this time it's been 4 or 5 days and tried reintroducing her again - and they chased her up into the corner of her cage.  Now I've kept the cages in front of each other and hopefully their first playtime tonight will go without incident.

I've now got to go through the intro process again. Doh!

I think it'll depend on your rats though, you might not have any problems at all. 

Make sure she gets pain meds to bring home - they're the most effective way of stopping stitches being pulled. (in case it hasn't already been mentioned - I can't remember =/)

Edit - oh! and good luck


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

The vet has just rang me and said that Dotty has come round, but is very quiet at the moment - she offered her some chocolate but she didn't take it, which is very unlike her so she must be feeling abit groggy at the moment.

She said that some of her muscles were abit wrapped round the tumour and that there was some bleeding at her elbow that was abit hard to stop, but it should all be okay now but there may be abit of weeping from the elbow.
They are keeping her in over night and I'll ring to see how she is when I get back from work which will be about 10PM.
I also asked about pain med and the vet said that she'd prefer to send her home with some, so that's also good news.
Oh she also said that she has used souble(?) stitches as well as glue, so that's also another good bit of news.

So now I've just got to hope for the best for the rest of the day/night. But it all sounds good and I have a good feeling about it.
I can't wait to see her again and see how different she looks without that horrible tumour!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

Ahh good she used dissolvable stitches and glue 

Sweet Dotty, I have my fingers crossed that she does well and comes home soon.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

Aw, yay. I hope things go well for you.

I wouldn't worry too much about being groggy - some of mine have been really out of it for up to 12 or so hours after an operation.

I think she'll look like a brand new rat again  I once had an old boy who had a tumour the size of a breast implant removed from his side - he looked almost unrecognizable afterwards - but obviously felt much better

Good luck!


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## rattusnorvegicus (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

when a rattie stays overnight at the vet, you're gonna be wide awake at midnight. trust me, i know what its like. :sad: just dont scream when you pick her up because she looks different . she be a new rattie after the surgery, but don't start the introductions until after she gets at least a day of sleep. good luck to your rattie and keep us updated .


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

I just rang the vets again and the nurse has said that she's making a slow recovery, I'm abit worried about that but at the same time I'm not as what Ration has said about their rat has sort of settled my mind.
I guess anaesthetic must be alot for a little rat.

On the plus side the nirse also said that she's had a nibble of food, so that's a sign of recovery considering she didn't want anything earlier.
So now all I need to do is ring the morning and hopefully the day staff will tell me I can bring my baby home!

:lol: I won't scream, I think it'll just be a shock and I'll be abit scared of picking her up for the first few days incase I hurt her.
I plan to give her at least a day of rest anyway and if she wants to come out for abit when I get back from work, then I may get her out but only on my lap. I'll probably wait until the weekend before I start letting her mingle again.

I can't wait to see and have my "new" rattie back!


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

Don't forget, if they've given her pain meds it could make her a little groggy. Daphne was given a morphine based pain killer and we picked up 7 hours after her surgery and she was so quiet - she spent the rest of the day sleeping, shifting round the cage. But your little girl is in the best place to be right now. They'll keep a constant watch on her. It'll also depend how long they kept her under anaesthetic too - the longer they're under the longer it'll take to recover (I think, anyway)

Also, if it was a biggish tumour - she's probably lost some blood volume through tumour removal alone (those suckers can have great blood supplies and full of it sometimes). That could be another reason for quiet rat-ishness.

I'd probably give her a day or two quiet time - normally for the first couple of days I avoid getting them out except for a very quick cuddle - most the stroking I do within the cage. Then I'll let them out on the sofa for a couple of days - not allowing them full free-range (depending on what op - but if there's a larger wound I find it helps to keep them quiet and not running/jumping around too soon after) That's completely personal preference though - as I like to give the wound a chance to start healing before they start over doing it. 

Best wishes for your little lady feeling better soon!


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

The vet said to me earlier that she's gave her enough pain meds to last until tomorrow.

Ah, that's true. Well I'm going away Saturday night until Monday morning so she'll get plenty of rest over the weekend as my mom will be looking after her and she doesn't like getting any of the girls out...altho she doesn't mind feeding them and changing litter trays etc while I'm away.

She'll also be living in a hamster cage. I thought it'd be best as she won't be able to climb or jump around to much, plus it was also a mad dash to find something to keep her so had to borrow it from my brother's girlfriend. But I'll be getting her out loads while she's recovering until she can go back in with Roxy and Doris.
I also may keep her away from the other cage, but still in the same room (my bedroom is quite small so they won't be miles away from each other  ) until after the weekend as I don't want her getting to excited.





Thanks for all your help and best wishes guys, Dotty and myself really appreciate it.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

I do exactly the same (I found a brilliant hamster cage called the Cambridge Hamster Cage, it's a hamster mansion, and all I do is remove the platforms and add a hammock). Post op it might feel mean, but it's in their best interest.

Try and keep the cages semi-close (within smelling distance). You want to let all the girls know that they're all still around and ok.

I'm also guessing your mum is as great as mine is, and will give her pain meds, check stitches etc? If I ever go away and any of them are on meds - I leave an instruction manual the size of the Yellow Pages LOL

Enjoy your time away


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

I might keep Dotty by my bedside. Doris and Roxy are literally at the foot of my bed and as ratties have a keen sense of smell I'm sure they'll all know who's there  

:lol: 
She knows what to do as I give her a good telling before I go away and then ring up as soon as I get to where I'm going, then continue to ring at least once or twice a day to see how everyone is - in everyone, I mean Doris, Dotty and Roxy. Lol.

Thanks  I feel terrible leaving Dotty, but I promised I'd go to the other halfs family new year party :| 
But if Dotty is feeling/looking to bad, then I may stay at home.


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

Well Dotty is now home. I'm having to feed her baby food as she still hasn't got much of an appetite - I tried to give her some jarred baby food with chicken and vegetables and she had a tiny little lick then didn't want anymore, I tried some with Roxy...she did the same. So I tried her with some powdered banana cereal and she loved it an ate it (as did Roxy :lol: ). So that's that dilemma sorted. She accepts treats from me (chicken and cracker) and takes them into her bed, I think she had a nibble of the chicken though.

I've put the two cages as close together as I can get them. Dotty seems really down at the moment  The vet said not to put them back together until Wednesday, which is also when she's going back to see the vet for a check-up. Dorus doesn't seem to care/know what's going on, but Roxy seems really out of character at the moment and is sitting as close to the side of the cage where Dotty is as possible. She also got really excited and was sniffing all over the place when I put Dotty's cage next to the main cage.

Dotty doesn't look to bad and the incison is actually very neat and not that big (I'll try get some pictures soon). She also still quite happily sits on my shoulder and scrambles round on me.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

I would let Dotty and Roxy together for a bit of Out time together and see how Roxy is with the incision. If she is fine, I would ignore what your vet said and put her back in with her cagemates. Happy rats heal faster. Lonely sad rats might pick at their incisions or get depressed. My vet used to tell me to separate for days, when I told her that I put them right back together, she was fine with it, and said you know your own rats (she also knows I will watch carefully to make sure there's no bugging going on).


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

Roxy is abit hyper and awake at the moment - I think giving her baby food as well wasn't a good idea :lol: 
Dotty is resting at the moment to so I don't want to disturb her.

I may get them out together when I get back from work later tonight. Hopefully it'll cheer Dotty up abit.
If someone or I was here all the time then I would put them all back together in the cage again, but as I'm not then I don't want to risk it until the incision is at least partly healed.


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE)*

I got both Roxy and Dotty out earlier. Roxy didn't seem fazed at all by Dotty or the incision.
I only had them out together for about 10 minutes max as Dotty seemed to get abit fed up after awhile, but before I put her back I thought I'd take a few pictures.



















I wasn't planning on getting her out, but she came out for abit of baby food then looked so fed up in her cage. She still quite happily jumped onto my shoulder as I was bent down as close to my bed as I possibly could be. But I am trying to prevent her from jumping up as I don't want any other injuries.
And this is the current set up of the cages...


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

The incision looks good  The best thing is she wants to be out and about. At about 3 days its healed enough that they can do a lot of their normal things again  Aren't they the scariest healers? LOL


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## rattusnorvegicus (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

she looks great, better than before at least. you should be proud of yourself emster and i think you are a terrific rat owner. looks like dotty's gonna be ok herself. did you start the intros yet? im glad she made it through the surgery. i dont have to say 'good luck' any more either :lol:.


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

I was surprised at how neat the incision was. It also goes under her elbow.

She's still eating baby food at the moment, but my mom was looking after her earlier and said that she ate some banana, a choclate drop and has a tiny nibble of her normal food. So I'm hoping by the time she goes to see the vet again she'll be back to normal and have her appetite back.

I'm so happy that I had it done in the end, the fact that she's home, happy(ish) and on the mend makes me realise even more how my rattie clan would be lost without her.
I certainly feel like a better rat owner. I felt so terrible the last month letting her suffer with that horrible thing.
I said in an earlier post that I let her out on the bed with Roxy. Roxy didn't seem bothered by Dotty or the incision. But I think Dotty had, had enough after 10 minutes or so.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

If she's not eating very much, you can always try supplement her diet with slim-fast meal replacement milkshake powder. In the US, Ensure is reccommended (it's a nutritional drink that's basically designed to replace a snack or quick lunch) and I've checked the nutritional info and slim-fast isn't much different. Get the powder though, mix it with soy milk or water. It's a good way to rehydrate little ratties that aren't drinking and eating - or in your case, have a diminished appetite.

I just mix up one 'meal', offer it to them in a small dish in their cage, and freeze the remaining until required.

Just an idea


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

I think her appetite is coming back very slowly. She took a small piece of cracker and watermelon from me earlier and stashed them. SO hopefully she'll have a nibble in the night. It's an improvement as she wouldn't take anything from the nurses at the vets.

Thanks for the tip. I'll have to look into getting some Slimfast when I come home...and I never thought of just leaving the baby food in her cage, I may do that tonight so I don't have to get up at 3AM :lol: 
I thought the baby food would cover most of her nutrional needs, especially as the vet recommended it.
She is drinking alot, so at least I don't have a dehydration problem.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

Babyfood is really good to give them - but sometimes (if they're pains like mine) when they're not feeling up-to scratch they won't eat it. If she's eating it and in good quantities, I probably wouldn't worry too much about needing anything extra. Especially if she's drinking well. (Although the slim-fast trick is a good one to hold on to for future reference! Katie lived on Ensure for days before she began eating babyfood again!)

The babyfood should cover most her nutritional needs anyway 

I leave the babyfood in a dish overnight. Are you using big or small jars? I usually use the medium sized HIPP babyfood and leave half a jar with them overnight and half a jar in there during the day (depending on how much she's eating of course) It'll last overnight well, but may turn if you leave it in there too long in the morning. (look for a vinegary smell)


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

She's eating what I'd call smallish bits and often. She'd probably eat more but I offer her some every couple of hours or so.
I'm using powdered Cow & Gate breakfast food. She didn't like the stuff I brought for her in the jar! Altho saying that, neither did Roxy or Doris.
I'll leave it in there until tomorrow morning (I've also got some in a little sealed tubaware box on the side, just incase she has a feast). I'm also leaving a handful of her normal food in there for her to.

I feel so sorry for her in that little cage, so I've got her running on the bed and sitting on my shoulder at the moment - you can definitely tell she's a new rat! But she's not allowed any jumping or climbing (if I can help it!) yet.
Roxy seems to be really missing her at the moment. Doris still doesn't seem all that bothered.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

How easy to use/store is the breakfast food? I've not used it (I use the jars) but am thinking it might be good to get some and store for emerencies.

How is Dotty doing taking her meds? Did the vets give you pain meds to bring home?


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

Basically all you do is add 3 spoons of water to every 1 spoon of the powder. It tends to go abit clumpy after awhile, but I imagine it may last awhile if it's kept in a sealed container.
I have no idea why the girls didn't like the jarred food, I thought they'd love it as it's chicken. Obviously they are fruity rats  

She has one bottle that's a anti-inflammatory and pain killer in one - I'm not sure what it's called, the bottle's downstairs and I'm to lazy to move, lol. I gave her some earlier and she doesn't appear to be in any discomfort.
I'm meant to give it via syringe, but it ends up just upsetting Dotty, so I'm going to start adding it to a bit of food and giving it to her that way.


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

Dotty is eating some of her normal food!!!!!

I am SO happy!

I suddenly hear this little nibbling, looked in her cage and there she is eating abit of Reggie Rat!


 


EDIT - She's only ate 2 pieces. But what an improvement


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

Yay!! Well done Dotty!

She's got all four footsies planted firmly on the road to recovery, me thinks


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

I've been away for the weekend and have just got back.

Dotty seems okay, she seems abit stiff and also very slightly unstable on the side of the operation - which could be due to her being stiff. But I'm hoping that's a good sign of her healing...but also not forgetting that she has stitches under her arm as well. She can still quite happily and easily shimmy up my arm on to my shoulder.
Where the lump was, it seems to be swelling ever so slightly :? Maybe that's because she's eating more and becoming a healthy, fatty rattie again.
I'm also slightly worried that she hasn't been having her meds as my mom has been giving it to her in food and she reckons that she has ate it, so...

She doesn't squeal out when I touch her side, but she gives me a look of "What do you think you're doing!".
Her appetite is up as she's eating toast, crackers, banana chips, banana, pasta etc quite happily. She's still being offered baby food, but isn't taking as much as she's starting to nibble on her normal food again.
She's out on my bed at the moment and currently snuggling up under my pillow (good job the bed is being changed soon, lol). I'm hoping she'll have a nap under there as it'd be so cute  and also as she's got some free time out of the cage.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

The lump swelling could be a seroma where fluids collect in the pocket left behind from the surgery. The body usually reabsorbs those in a day or so 

Good to hear your baby is doing okay


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

Thanks Lilspaz - I just went in search of the darn name of them - Seroma! 

http://www.ratforum.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=4992.html <- my panic with Katie's seromas + pics. Hers took a week-ish to grow to their full size and dispersed over about a week and a half

Keep an extra eye on her if you're worried she hasn't been getting her meds, and make sure that you give them to her regularily now. I can't imagine much harm being done over a couple of days, but watch for pain/infection all the same (I'm a paranoid freak, what can I say? )

Good to see she's still a happy girlie


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

When I had her out I was looking for any Owwie stretches or strange movements from her, but she was okay. She probably has had them, as I didn't see any left over food in her bed when I spot cleaned the cage out earlier...I think I'm just paranoid to  

I was worried about her meds as it's an anti-inflammatory to, so I thought as it was swelling it was due to her not having her meds. I was also scared it was the lump reforming :lol: ...Now I think about it I sound so paranoid.

Thanks Lilspaz and Ration, you've settled my mind now  

Just got Wednesday to look forward to now, when she has her checkup at the vets and can then hopefully go back in with Roxy and Doris. Altho she looks very comfy and warm in her little bed in her "hospital" cage, I'm sure she's missing the gang.
I'll try and get more pictures of her later.


EDIT - I meant to add, I think I may be coming down with a cold - my partner had one last week, so I think I'm doomed :lol: :roll: 
Should I be extra careful not to mess with Dotty to much as she's had the operation and all...?


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

I bet she's missing them lots and lots like jelly tots! Lol. You should throw them a reunion party with a mini-feast on your bed.

I have that joy to look forward to with Daphne this Tuesday - she's turned silly bad rat and spent 10 minutes chasing Ivy around the bathroom trying to hump her like a loon. Max then threw herself off the igloo into Ivy, Ivy went tumbling and that was the end of that game. It was hilarious to watch but poor Daffers is going a bit stir-crazed me thinks.

Good luck Wednesday, my fingers and toes are all crossed for you! \x/


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

I think she is now.
Roxy seems to be missing her to, she seemed depressed last night. I still think Doris doesn't really know what's going on and watches the world go by :lol: 

Anyway, as I'm cleaning the main cage out tonight, I'm going to put Dotty back in with Roxy and Doris. The last few nights she didn't seem ready to go back but last night she did, she kept on trying to climb out of her "hospital". Also as she's going back to the vets again tomorrow, I thought what's the worse that can happen...I'm sure she knows what she can and can't do.
So hopefully, it'll be back to happy ratties!


EDIT - As for the mini-feast, they'll be having a tasty corn on the cob to have a good ol' gnaw on and natter over


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

Well we've been to see the vet and she said everything looks good. She sad it looks abit lumpy round the incision due to blood and the fact that the abcsess had alot in it. She's chewed all the stitches out from down her side, but not from under her arm/elbow - thank goodness!
I'm to carry on giving her, her meds and take her back for another check-up next Wednesday again.

The re-introduction went fine last night, there was some interest in Dotty's incision, but with some telling off and light taps if anyone went to touch them, they've been okay. Dotty has gone back to her normal self, I'm still offering her baby food every now and then through the day, but I think she's eating normally now and hopefully even more so as she can see R & D eating it to.
Her poop is abit sloppish today, but I think that's due to the fact that she was hogging the corn on the cob last night :lol: As well as her own bowl of fruit and veggies the night before. Oops.

Here's a picture of her the other night. I couldn't get a better or less blurred one as all she wanted to do was run around :lol: 










The incision looks so much better now, you can tell it's healing nicely.

Me and Dotty would just like to thank everyone on here for all your help, support and kind words as she's been going though the process and recovering from the abcsess and operation


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Do Tumours... (UPDATE) (PICTURES)*

I had Dotty put to sleep earlier today.

Please see the Rainbow Bridge forum.


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