# Oh. Dear.



## Hallie-Mae

I got the "boys"... 8O

Yep, you guessed it. 
Two girls. 

She was like "their testicles haven't come through yet". I was thinking... "Huh ?"
"This one's really hyperactive and this one's just fat".... ".. .. ...... ... ..................."

Is that.. a vagina ?
And a fat belly ?

... 

Dumbos. Siamese or himi hooded, can't tell yet. Black hooded. 
BOTH FEMALE.
ONE POSSIBLY PREGNANT.


AHHH HELP 8O
How can I tell if she's preggers  ???


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## lilspaz68

How old are they? Thats key.


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## Hallie-Mae

I'm not sure  
I thought that.. They possibly had them for a long time so surely the preg rat should have had her bubs by now ??
However, the not pregnant rat is clearly quite young as she hasn't properly developed her markings yet and she's very small. They got them both at the same time so.. Who knows?

I'll take some photos, see what you think.


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## Stace87

You have more girlies then 8O eeeeek! I hope she's not pregnant.


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## lilspaz68

Hallie-Mae said:


> I'm not sure
> I thought that.. They possibly had them for a long time so surely the preg rat should have had her bubs by now ??
> However, the not pregnant rat is clearly quite young as she hasn't properly developed her markings yet and she's very small. They got them both at the same time so.. Who knows?
> 
> I'll take some photos, see what you think.


Maybe they were all the same sex? We can hope for that..she had no comparison. LOL...boyos testes start descending just after 3 weeks of age. :roll: Did you see any goolies on the other rats? Were there any adult males in there (that can be a real problem,)


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## Hallie-Mae

lilspaz68 said:


> Hallie-Mae said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure
> I thought that.. They possibly had them for a long time so surely the preg rat should have had her bubs by now ??
> However, the not pregnant rat is clearly quite young as she hasn't properly developed her markings yet and she's very small. They got them both at the same time so.. Who knows?
> 
> I'll take some photos, see what you think.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they were all the same sex? We can hope for that..she had no comparison. LOL...boyos testes start descending just after 3 weeks of age. :roll: Did you see any goolies on the other rats? Were there any adult males in there (that can be a real problem,)
Click to expand...

Well, we got them from the vet - yes, the vet, who was incapable of distuingishing their sex - so there weren't any other rats with them. However, she did get them from pets at home so my guess is that they were kept with boys in their stay there.


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## lilspaz68

OK give me timelines. How long were they at the vets? How old you think the older girl is?
I can post pics of babies or link you to my Bronlings folder in my Photobucket...teh ages are on the pics...

7 weeks old is when I noticed my first heats in all my girls...a few can get pregnant at 5-6 weeks but its not that common, but you just do not want to take the chance with a baby that young.

Babies all get these little pot bellies we stare at and wonder.

Can you get your hands on a weight scale that measures grams? Weighing every day at the same time is actually the best way to determine pregnancy.


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## Stace87

You don't take your rats to see this vet do you? 8O 

If they can't distinguish male/female, I wouldn't be trusting them with medical problems!


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## Hallie-Mae

Well, it was the vet receptionist, but apparantly they do appointments on thursdays because the actual vets aren't in. 

I think she might just be fat actually :? She has a really pudgy tail, and I can't feel any bubs inside her (I took the risk). 

I'd say she's about 7 weeks ?


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## lilspaz68

You are probably pretty safe then. I took in a mom and her 4 daughters, whom had been living with the dad and brother. Mom had an e-spay (my first spay ever...boy was I nervous) and was only a little bit pregnant. The daughters lived with the males up to 6 plus weeks and I could only cross my fingers for them. No pregnancies


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## chevalrose

Eeep! How long did the vet tech have them for? If they were together with the vet for at least 2/3 weeks, I would say she's probably not pregnant.


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## Hallie-Mae

I'm not sure how long she had them for... She never said


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## lilspaz68

post pics and get on the phone


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## junior_j

ia gree with lilspaz68
Jess x


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## Hallie-Mae

Lol, I don't really want to complain to the vet. She's sort of a family friend and she's very lovely, just a bit clueless. 
Other than the whole gender mix up, she does care for them very well. Had them in a nice cage, lots of toys, Shunamite diet, vitamins and stuff like that. 
And she cried when she had to give them up, so I don't want to make her feel even worse 8O


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## chevalrose

Yeah I would just let sleeping dogs lie (or is it lye...?).

She meant well, and is new to rats. Besides, complaining to her wont do anything anyways, it wont make them grow man-parts!


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## Hallie-Mae

Also, any name suggestions for my new girls :lol: ? I'll get photos up soon, but I'm going out for a meal then going to a party so I won't have a chance until I get back late tonight.

And thank you muchly for understanding, Chevalrose :lol:


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## lilspaz68

No...just ask how long she has had them, thats all you need to know.


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## junior_j

i want pics 
Jess x


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## Hallie-Mae

Gosh, they may be gender confused but they are so sweet 8O
The vet was acting like they were nothing special... "This one's really hyperactive and it's so annoying, and this one's so fat that he can barely move." But saying that she did love them a lot.
But I had the fat one bruxing and boggling on my shoulder and the hyperactive one falling asleep from scritches in my lap. :| 
They're GORGEOUS and just want a nice long cuddle; and the hyperactive one enjoys tickles. 
I'm going to be naming them today btw :lol:
And getting you guys some photos.

Also... Avipro Plus ? The vet gave me some, but I'm curious about it. She said to put it in their water. Does it just provide them with more vitimins ? Any opinions on it ? Thanks.


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## lilspaz68

_Avipro is a pro-biotic combination of bacteria, enzymes, electrolytes and vitamins. Easily administered in the water due to its high palatibility. Useful to balance the gut flora of the newly purchased small animals that develops diarrhoea after it is taken home, or those on antibiotic treatment; also supports animals under stress._

Its a probiotic...they aren't on meds are they? Why would they need this?


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## Hallie-Mae

She mentioned that they get diarrhoea when they're on car rides, and did mention it a few times so maybe that's why. 
Oh, and I recall her saying on the phone that they've just come off medication for respiratory infections that have now cleared up, but she said no more than that. 
She stated that if I keep them on the Avipro Plus it should help ? I think that's what she was implying. 

Named them Vache and Balle. For those of you who know French... Lol. 
I'm uploading photos.


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## Hallie-Mae

Okay now after all that, here's some photos.


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## chevalrose

I'm so amazed (and jealous) that your pictures always come out so nice! 

They are very pretty. They seem to be settling in well?


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## lilspaz68

They are much older, a minimum of 3 months (12 weeks) so hopefully vet tech had them since they were wee babies 

Adorable!

I hate putting anything in water. The consistency and colour of their poops will tell you if they need a probiotic.

I usually use live-culture yogurt instead, they love it


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## Hallie-Mae

Yep, they're settling in fine =) They don't seem to be stressed at all, and they're very active and happy and social.

You'd say they're three months? Thanks for clearing that up with me, I'm terrible at guessing rat ages. Just for future reference, how can you tell their age?


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## chevalrose

Did you name Balle for Bullet or ball?


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## lilspaz68

Hallie-Mae said:


> Yep, they're settling in fine =) They don't seem to be stressed at all, and they're very active and happy and social.
> 
> You'd say they're three months? Thanks for clearing that up with me, I'm terrible at guessing rat ages. Just for future reference, how can you tell their age?


I wouldn't bother with the probiotic then 

100 + ratties through my hands, mostly female is how I know. I have had some fool me but those are not baby babies anymore  The face, the build, the comparison in the pics with background items for size reference. I did a daily photoshoot of my Other rescue litter the Bronlings from birth to 8 weeks...after that I did it every few days or so...I can show you rats at 5, 6, 7, 8 weeks plus, and tell you what to look for if you like?


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## Hallie-Mae

Chevalrose; intentionally a mixture of the two, seeing as she's very fast and bouncy. However, I'm sort of beginning to lean more toward the concept of a bullet.  But then she'll get all springy and I'll think, aggh she's like a little bouncy ball. Maybe one day I'll be able to settle on one or the other. Until then, she fits for both :lol: 

Lilspaz; That would be brilliant, thank you


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## SamAnthrax

So for sure they're girls?


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## A1APassion

I agree with 3 months for the one that looks Himalayan 

Are they supposed to be litter mates or are they definitely different ages Because she looks to be older or is it because she is plump?

I'd definitely suggest you talk to the person who had them & find out how long she had them. From your story I would guess she had them at least 10 to 14 days since you mentioned they just finished treatment for a URI.. hopefully she can tell you that she had them for at least a week of more beyond that because I just can't tell from the pictures whether she is a plump girl or a pregger girl.


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## Hallie-Mae

Yep, Sam, unfortunately.  100% positive. Lol


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## Hallie-Mae

A1APassion said:


> I agree with 3 months for the one that looks Himalayan
> 
> Are they supposed to be litter mates or are they definitely different ages Because she looks to be older or is it because she is plump?
> 
> I'd definitely suggest you talk to the person who had them & find out how long she had them. From your story I would guess she had them at least 10 to 14 days since you mentioned they just finished treatment for a URI.. hopefully she can tell you that she had them for at least a week of more beyond that because I just can't tell from the pictures whether she is a plump girl or a pregger girl.



According to Lilspaz they'd be too old to not have had a litter if they were going to by now, and I'm considerably sure that she's just fat, not preggers. I weighed her and she weighs the same amount as one of my other girls (who isn't pregnant), so that's my best guess. 

Her tail is extremely fat, and I presumed that if she was pregnant she'd be thin everywhere else except for her belly. However, she's super fat all over. And the vet said she fed them "Cadbury chocolate biscuits" so that would explain it :?

For the record, if she does have a litter, which is very unlikely, I do have plenty of supplies for such a thing. I have a zoozone 2 nursing cage in the shed, suppliments for the mother, an extra tom rat cage when seperation time comes around, emergancy vet fund, and this awesome forum for any help I need. 8O So it's not as though I'm extremely desperate for her NOT to have a litter, I could handle it sort of thing. However, it is obviously the last thing I want.


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## lilspaz68

Honestly I would still try to find out how long she has had them...most times people get babies from petstores and they are past that stage. The black hoodie looks a bit chunky and if the vet tech did adopt them and only gave them a 5 day course of meds (some vets think thats adequate *DOH*) then you could still be in the danger zone...it all depends on how long YOU have had them home, and how long she had them.

If they had been 7 weeks it would be unlikely they were pregnant but since they are much older there's more chance 

My gut is saying not pregnant but its been wrong before :lol:


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## A1APassion

the vet fed them chocolate biscuits?


or was it the vet receptionist? I'm getting confused

If you got these rats from a vet that doesn't know age, gender or what to NOT feed them you have at least one good thing to get out of all of this.... the chance to find a good vet before you have an emergency

I was not suggesting you couldn't or even didn't want to deal with a pregnancy. I'm just going on the common sense response that pretty much anyone would have about the desire to not have an unexpected litter if at all possible.

I for one know I would much rather deal with an on purpose than an accident when it comes to anything in life.


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