# I may have bought a male and female rat..



## Leila (Oct 25, 2015)

Hey, guys. So I have bought my first two rats about two weeks ago and I was informed that they were two males. They are from the same litter.
They have been amazing so far. One is more shy, the other one is larger and more outgoing. They love wrestling, so I wasn't even concerned about them being different genders.

Just now I was playing with them and I noticed the smaller rat has already visible testicles. I looked at my other rat and it doesn't have anything, in spite of it being larger than it's brother..

I'm not sure of their age. I believe they are a little bit over a month old. 
I tried searching for guides on how to sex rats, but the one who doesn't have visible testicles doesn't allow me to flip them over very well. I saw very briefly, and the holes weren't close together, and it definitely had something 'poping' out, similar to a penis. But I am affraid it might have been a nipple.
After they were in their cage, I tried feeling the one who doesn't have visible testicles, in search of nipples, and I didn't find any.

Right now, both of them are hiding in the lower section of the cage, so I can't really take photos or give a better look. I thought it'd be best to post here after I had a closer look, but I'm kinda freaking out. They love playing and enjoying the other's company, and it'd be heartbreaking to have them separated. And I definitely don't have space to buy one more friend for each of them in case they get separated. 

Should I start freaking out now? Is it possible that the one that seems a female's testicles didn't drop completely yet? When should I separate them?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Can you post a picture of their undercarriage?


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

Separate them right now asap if you havent already until u r 100% sure. Rats can have babies very young and it is not good for them.

Boys are fairly obvious, if you do not see testicles it is very likely a girl. A boy can put them up inside them but it really is not that common and IMO it still is fairly noticeable.










As you can see from the pic, girls have "a thing popping out" as well lol. But under it you can see the hole for the vagina.

Posting pics will help alot. If you have someone who can snap pics while u hold them it helps.

Don't try to flip them over on their backs. Hold them up, like I am doing in that picture. They will wiggle but just keep a firm (not too tight) hold on them and snap a ton of pics, one is bound to be good lol


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## Leila (Oct 25, 2015)

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I'm so sorry for the quality. Can this help at all? I still can't find any nipples, though,..

I'm really thinking Galileu is actually a girl.

[EDIT] I took a better one.


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## Leila (Oct 25, 2015)

This is the boy:


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## Nev&Remus (Nov 4, 2015)

I would definitely say you have a girl there!


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

I'd separate immediately, they look young so your probably OK. If you can get a photo of them now we should be able to give you a rough age and more idea.

The next step is to decide on wether you want to keep them not and if so same age same sex friends and a second cage.


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## Leila (Oct 25, 2015)

Isamurat said:


> I'd separate immediately, they look young so your probably OK. If you can get a photo of them now we should be able to give you a rough age and more idea.
> 
> The next step is to decide on wether you want to keep them not and if so same age same sex friends and a second cage.


Thank you so much for the help, guys.
The photo of my signature was taken exactly a week ago. Is it good enough for giving them an age?
I'll definitely keep them.. I'm not the kind of person who'd return them to the store or something. I'll separate them today. One of them will be put in a cage I have laying here and sunday I'll be off to buy a larger cage, since the one I have laying here way too tiny.
However, there's absolutely no possibility of buying two more rats.. If I lived alone, I'd definitely would. However, I live with my parents, and they barely allowed me to own two. They'll be mad enough I'll have no buy another cage, imagine if I asked for two more rats..

What about stress wise? Will them be too stressed from being separated? Will keeping their cages somewhat close together make this easier for them? The female, is definitely larger than her brother.. Is there a possibility of her being pregnant already?


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## Ephemere (Sep 8, 2015)

Maybe you could neuter the male? (since the surgery for males is less invasive) so they could be together again? If they have to be alone they'll get depressed.


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## Leila (Oct 25, 2015)

Ephemere said:


> Maybe you could neuter the male? (since the surgery for males is less invasive) so they could be together again? If they have to be alone they'll get depressed.


I'm not from the U.S. Where I live, I've never heard of neutering males. I'll look into it, but probably there isn't such a thing, unfortunatelly..


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## Ephemere (Sep 8, 2015)

Leila said:


> I'm not from the U.S. Where I live, I've never heard of neutering males. I'll look into it, but probably there isn't such a thing, unfortunatelly..


I've never had any neutered/spayed, since mine were all males. One I wasn't sure of since I'd asked to see male rats, and he brought out some really young ones, then after I'd already paid for him he said he didn't know if it was male or female and I wouldn't be able to tell for another month. (not true.) I thought for sure he was female, but he was just sucking in his parts because he was so scared. He was about 3 1/2 weeks old. But it seems like yours is female... I'm not an expert though. 

I think they neuter places outside of the US. The only thing is it can be expensive (it can be in the US anyway) so you might have to call around a little bit to find a place that costs less/is experienced with rats if you decide you're interested in doing that. It seems like a lot of people have had success with that and their male/female rats live happily together as a mixed group. Also if you do this, I'm pretty sure the male is still able to reproduce for a week or a few weeks after that(?) but I think if the female is spayed its effective right away, though I think its more risky to get the female fixed.


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## Leila (Oct 25, 2015)

Ephemere said:


> I've never had any neutered/spayed, since mine were all males. One I wasn't sure of since I'd asked to see male rats, and he brought out some really young ones, then after I'd already paid for him he said he didn't know if it was male or female and I wouldn't be able to tell for another month. (not true.) I thought for sure he was female, but he was just sucking in his parts because he was so scared. He was about 3 1/2 weeks old. But it seems like yours is female... I'm not an expert though.
> 
> I think they neuter places outside of the US. The only thing is it can be expensive (it can be in the US anyway) so you might have to call around a little bit to find a place that costs less/is experienced with rats if you decide you're interested in doing that. It seems like a lot of people have had success with that and their male/female rats live happily together as a mixed group. Also if you do this, I'm pretty sure the male is still able to reproduce for a week or a few weeks after that(?) but I think if the female is spayed its effective right away, though I think its more risky to get the female fixed.


Thank you so much for your response!
I'll definitely check for the neutering option though I doubt it's going to happen. I only know one vet that takes care of exotic animals, and I'm not sure he does surgeries. But I'll talk to him. I'd definitely like that option more. Do you know at what age males can be neutered? Thanks for all the info!


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## Ephemere (Sep 8, 2015)

Leila said:


> Thank you so much for your response!
> I'll definitely check for the neutering option though I doubt it's going to happen. I only know one vet that takes care of exotic animals, and I'm not sure he does surgeries. But I'll talk to him. I'd definitely like that option more. Do you know at what age males can be neutered? Thanks for all the info!


I've read you can do it as young as 5-8 weeks, depending on what the vet is comfortable with. I don't know what the best age is to do it at, maybe someone that has more experience will post soon. 

No problem, I hope everything goes well for Galileu and Galilei!!!


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## Leila (Oct 25, 2015)

Ephemere said:


> I've read you can do it as young as 5-8 weeks, depending on what the vet is comfortable with. I don't know what the best age is to do it at, maybe someone that has more experience will post soon.
> 
> No problem, I hope everything goes well for Galileu and Galilei!!!


Thank you so much! I hope if the vet is comfortable in neutering rats, it happens this early.
Though I bet there'll be a very slight name-changing after this happening. Lol!


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## nataliea (Oct 14, 2015)

the store you got them from may have a vet that you can go to do it for a fee


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## Leila (Oct 25, 2015)

nataliea said:


> the store you got them from may have a vet that you can go to do it for a fee


Thanks for the idea! I just found two vets that are experienced in neutering male rats in my area. I couldn't be happier. I'll keep their cages together while the male isn't neutered. Then I'll reintroduce them. I hope everything turns out smoothly! Thank you so much, guys.


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## amandad (Apr 20, 2015)

Ephemere said:


> Maybe you could neuter the male? (since the surgery for males is less invasive) so they could be together again? If they have to be alone they'll get depressed.


I don't think this is necessarily true. Rats are social animals, so yes, it's best to let them have a cage mate... BUT as long as you are able to socialize with them by holding them and doing activities with them (giving them attention and affection) they should be fine. I've known many people to have had several rats, and I've know a few people to have a single rat; in fact, a close friend of mine has only one rat and she is doing quite well. 



Ephemere said:


> Also if you do this, I'm pretty sure the male is still able to reproduce for a week or a few weeks after that(?)


How can this be? Since neutering the male would leave him without testes, thus not having sperm to fertilize an egg. Unless you are thinking of a vasectomy, which involves cutting the vas deferens, which are the tubes that carry the sperm into the semen.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

It's well documented lone rats suffer mental illnesses such as depression anxiety and boredom. It's how we realized our models of addiction were flawed, since we were using lonely rats. 

Anyway. Yes, you can get him neutered. He is still viable for 10 days, thanks to steam maturing in his tubes. However, in this case, a spay could be beneficial. Not only are there more health benefits but if she were in early stages of pregnancy it would abort the litter.


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## RowenaBlue (Nov 4, 2015)

> However, in this case, a spay could be beneficial


Not an expert or anything, but I have read that an intact male with a spayed female might still try to mount her and it could be painful for her. Just a thought, like I said not an expert.


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## Leila (Oct 25, 2015)

The thing is, when rats don't have cage mates and only interact with humans, them miss out on many things that only rats can do, such as wrestling fights, grooming sessions, etc. This we'd never be able to reproduce. Plus, it'd be horrible to have them alone, since I wouldn't have much free time to play with them like they'd need too. I spend 9 hours a day out of my house.

Thank you so much for the help, guys. I talked with the vet, and he says he'd neuter the male after him reaching 8 weeks. So, I'll wait 3 weeks, and in the meanwhile, the girl will be separated from her brother.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

To clarify one point, lone rats can bond with a human family and live a happy life... but this is a real hardship on the human family. It means spending just about every waking minute with your rat.

So yes, I've don it... and it means dining at rat friendly restaurants or in parking lots with your rat, it means going to rat friendly parks and shopping at rat friendly stores. It means getting up early and working at home with your rat on your lap or desk... it means staying up late to play with your nocturnal friend and to some degree it means most of your friends thinking you're just a little bit eccentric.

And at 1:00 AM once it meant taking a rat with too much playful energy out in the rain to the soccer field so she could scamper and run around and finally calm down and go to sleep... After which I began to wonder if my friends weren't just a little bit right about being eccentric, or just plain nuts.

So, we eventually got our rat a friend, and we still spent most of our time with her and she still got to go almost everywhere we went, but finally we could leave her home with her friend and feel OK about it. Sometimes we even took both rats along... but at least we didn't have to.

So.... while I can honestly say it is possible to raise a happy, healthy and well adjusted only rat, I'd also add that you would have to either be a shut in or just plain crazy to try it... Been there, done that and it's nice to be able to go to the supermarket again.


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## RattyTriplet (Oct 26, 2015)

Rat Daddy said:


> To clarify one point, lone rats can bond with a human family and live a happy life... but this is a real hardship on the human family. It means spending just about every waking minute with your rat.
> 
> So yes, I've don it... and it means dining at rat friendly restaurants or in parking lots with your rat, it means going to rat friendly parks and shopping at rat friendly stores. It means getting up early and working at home with your rat on your lap or desk... it means staying up late to play with your nocturnal friend and to some degree it means most of your friends thinking you're just a little bit eccentric.
> 
> ...


Rat Daddy.. can I just say you are AWESOME <3 <3 <3 Reading that soccer field part gave me the warm and fuzzies.


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