# All Living Things Rat Starter Kit



## artistwolf

Hello! I joined a few months back but thought I couldn't get rats, but now I might have a chance I think, haha.Anyway, I was looking at are cages for sale (cheap is better for persuading my parents by the way... Even though I'm paying for everything, haha. I also need to save at least some extra money for any vet bills. That leaves with me being allowed to spend only a little over $100 on the cage/rats, and then that leaves me with about $70 for vet bills... Still cutting it close but I think my parents would help if vet bills were too high).So I found the All Living Things Rat Starter Kit. I used a rat cage calculator and it said that it could house 3 rats. I want to get two rats—probably males, as my great aunt (who loves rats, yay!!) said that males are better. And my mom will listen to her. And I'm kind of timid so a calmer rat would be better for me.But then I started reading reviews. Some were five stars—great cage, great price, no problems—and others were few stars—it said that the base is plastic so they chew straight through it! Would make rats generally chew through the plastic? And is the stuff in that kit any good? I liked it because it comes with everything. But I'm not sure on the bedding, and I think I might get some different food (Oxbow Regal Rat) because the one in the kit probably isn't that great.And as for bedding, can I use shredded newspaper? I know you can with mice, so just wondering Anyway that's about it!


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## ksaxton

Glad you're able to get rats! I had that cage, and personally I hated it. The things it comes with are fine, except the hammock is plastic so you'll probably need to cover it with a blanket to make it comfy. I would definitely get Oxbow and just donate the food it comes with to an animal shelter or something. I housed 2 males in it and they didn't chew. I just found the cage to be too small for my liking, and the doors were kind of small and hard to work inside the cage using them. It's not a bad cage, plenty of people have it it's pretty popular, I just found it to be too small for what I prefer. And you'll want to take the ramps out as they're pretty much useless and the rats will just climb the bars anyways. It'll also give you more room for other stuff. As for the newspaper, I think you can only use it if it's non toxic soy based ink. 


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## Zabora

Try a rat manor. They run about $80 and have a metak bottom. Its chew proof. Door is a bit small though. Don't use soy based anything. I have seen multiple web pages saying soy is bad for them.


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## artistwolf

Thanks guys! I'm considering getting something from Craigslist—someone says they have a double Ferret Nation with a wheeled stand dark green, and it's going for only $50. I must say I'm a bit weary though because I didn't think Ferret Nations came in different colors??Also with FNs do you have to use fleece bedding? How is that at odor control?


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## ksaxton

You can use fleece liners, or I've seen people get a deeper base pan so they can still use bedding 


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## Mischief

Ferret Nations (as far as I know) are the same as Critter Nations in that they only come in black. But I mean it is possible that it can be in green. See if you can check the cage out before you give them the money, though. You want to make sure it's legit and not broken/to the quality you expect it to be. All in all FNs and CNs are fantastic cages.

You don't HAVE to use liners, but most people prefer to do so because a) it can make cleanup quicker, b) it looks nicer, and c) it gives the rats something soft and cozy to curl up in. However, my girls have kind of lost their fleece privileges because all they do is pull it out from under the pans and chew it to shreds.  I opt to put it in a box or a hammock instead. I find that any absorbent fabric like fleece or towels has to be washed very frequently (rat urine is quite strong in smell, to me). Every 2 or 3 days maximum. And if your rats are chewers like mine, they'll only last 2 or 3 days before being completely destroyed and useless.


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## artistwolf

Here's another one I'm looking at—any idea what it is? http://stlouis.craigslist.org/app/4538217723.html (sorry if I can't post links I can delete it). 

If you know what it is, is it any good?


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## ksaxton

I've seen that cage before, I think it's a Prevue cage and I think All Living Things makes one just like it. I've never personally owned it but to me it looks nice, I would get it over the Rat Starter Kit 


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## ksaxton

I think it's a Prevue Rat and Chinchilla Cage. You can google it for dimensions and reviews 


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## PawsandClaws

I second getting one from Craiglist. If you can get a CN or FN for under $100 in good condition, it really would be the best deal. The Starter kit is kind of crappy imo and there are better cages in that price range that I think you will be far more satisfied with in the end.


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## artistwolf

Thanks!Fleece liners might not work for me... Because my mom would hate me constantly buying fleece/washing it with our clothes. Unless of course I could hand wash it, but that would be a pain and a half.I was looking at Yesterday's News litter (for cats originally). Does anyone use that? Is it good? It might be able to work in the Prevue one. The Prevue cage looks really good IMO.


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## Chuck

I had the prevue cage. It's sturdy, a good size for 2-3 rats and all metal plus the spacing between. Are is very small. I was able to house young rats, about 5 weeks without them being able to squeeze through the bars. You will need to cover the bottom since it is just metal bars. I also wish the door was larger since it would make cleaning easier. If you can get the cage for a good price, it's worth the money. These cages can last a very long time.


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## smopey

I have that cage and after a year of being in there, my rats just decided that they wanted to chew a hole in the bottom of the pan. I just bought a single unit Critter nation on Amazon for $126 including shipping. For $26 more, it's so worth it. This will be my third cage in less than 3 years and I honestly wish I just got the Critter nation in the first place. Would've saved me money in the long run.


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## artistwolf

Wait which cage was that, smopey? The Prevue is all metal.


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## smopey

No, I meant the All Living Things Rat Starter Kit.


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## Aeyna

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but ferret nation has wider bars, and baby or female rats can escape. I have a single critter nation that I got off of craigslist for 100, and I love it. If you can find one, it's worth every penny.


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## artistwolf

Thanks—I'm going to keep looking. I might just splurge on the critter nation and hope that my rats don't get sick and that if they do I can get my parents to pay at least some of it  On another thought, does the CN extra level have a solid floor, or a way to block the entranceway? Because it's a lot cheaper.


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## Gannyaan

The CN comes with these plastic trays that sit on the first level and the second level up top. They're solid and super easy to clean.  


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## Gussy

I have that cage! (pretty much everything I have in it except the water bottle and food dish -which is behind my rats- I bought myself)









I personally like it. There's a couple of annoying things about it though, like any cage probably. There's no door on the backside of it which makes putting platforms in kind of annoying, and the platforms can shift a bit horizontally along the bars, but my boys don't mind that much. The hammock, wheel, and bedding that it comes with is useless to me. My boys just don't seem to like hammocks in general and it's also very plasticy so it's not that soft. My boys also don't understand how to use wheels and don't care for it. As for the bedding, I just prefer to use Yesterday's News. I used the bedding it came with to put in shoe boxes and other boxes I'd give them, but that's about it. My favourite thing about the cage is the food dish, because the platform has little elevated bits that the dish goes on top to sort of lock it in so that it's harder for the rats to knock off and make a mess.

I think 3 rats would be okay in it, but 2 is probably perfect. And I'm not at all worried about them chewing through the bottom. It's a smooth base so there's not really anywhere for them to start chewing at, and my boys also aren't much of chewers themselves so I'm not worried


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## PawsandClaws

Just a quick tip. The other people at our house hate us washing the fleece liners in the washing machine as well so we bought some laundry bags that go in to the machine and separate the stuff from other garments. We bought a set of the meshed baggies from amazon pretty inexpensively. I use the largest one for pan liners, the medium one for shelf liners and the smallest bag for hammocks. It is a good alternative to people who are paranoid about the rat stuff.


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## artistwolf

Gussy: awesome, I won't completely remove it from my mind then Your ratties sure look happy with it! And my rats will probably spend a lot of time outside the cage anyway. 


PawsandClaws: Great idea! I'll keep that in mind; maybe I can even find something like that in target or something. 


Another question: what of this cage? http://stlouis.craigslist.org/for/4594068828.html It looks almost like a Martin's type cage? Though that could just be wishful thinking, lol. It comes with just about everything one would need, too... Though so does everything. Sigh. Also there's a rat breeder near me advertising on Craigslist—he is going for hairless but has some normal-furred babies on there too. I like normal furred and Rex best So should I definitely go for them instead of Petsmart (Petco sells feeder mice and stuff so I think I prefer petsmart's animals but if Petco is better just speak up)?


Lastly, is the Petco Marshall's Mansion good? There's a dark blue one and a black one on Craigslist. The price is $130 but I can't decide if that's for one or both. I could just offer $100 and see what happens, too. The worst is he can say no


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## Jaguar

Honestly I do not recommend the ALT kit at all. There are so many better cages you can get in a similar price range. That cage's dimensions and footprint are good - but that's where the pros end. The bars are a bit flimsy, doors are small, pan is soft plastic and can be chewed, the ridged shelves collect urine, the ramps are flimsy and most rats don't like them, the saucer is useless, the hammock will be chewed down very fast, and the food is junk... it's just not worth your money for how many bits of the kit you are going to hate/throw away. 

I think the Super Pet My First Home for Exotics is a better all-in-one cage kit, though it's still a bit too expensive for my liking. If you could get one second hand, it would work. It's similar to the Rat Starter kit, but has better construction quality and replacement parts can be purchased online from Super Pet.

That cage you linked is definitely a Martin's - looks like a R-690 - $100 is too much and it's a bit narrow at 14" but would work fine for two rats. I would double check the dimensions with them and maybe take a look at it, because if it's actually a R-695 it may be worth it - if not, you could try to haggle them down, as the new powder coated R-690 is only $110 (+tax/shipping)... it may have some rust, but it's not a huge deal, as you can take those shelves out and re-paint them if necessary. I LOVED my Martin's cage, and if I were to get rats again, I would get another one in a heartbeat - I had the R-680 and there was nothing about it I didn't like. 

The Marshall Ferret Mansion has 1" bar spacing, so babies and small females would be able to get through. They're also vertical bars, so your rats might have trouble climbing them - that in itself isn't terrible, but it also makes hanging hammocks and such a bit more challenging. They are $150 new on Amazon so unless you can get it for under $100 I wouldn't bother. 

Critter Nations are excellent too, but they are large and bulky, not suited for people with small spaces, a lot of stairs, and so on. Otherwise the Petco Rat Manor isn't a bad choice for 2 rats and it's all metal - but I would not put more than 2 rats in it, and it can be a bit of a pain to clean and rearrange.

I say this a lot, but *don't cheap out on your cage*. I know it's hard when you're on a budget, but honestly, save for a few more months and buy an awesome cage right off the bat instead of struggling with a $100 piece of junk you and your rats hate, chew through, get injured in, etc. because you will be down even more money when you are forced to replace that cage in the future.


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## wadefarrow

I got the rat starter kit, and it has its ups and downs... I have two young males so the size is fine for now. the food it comes with isn't great because the rats will pick and choose the parts of the mix that they want to eat and not get a rounded diet. I do give them a little bit of mix sometimes though just for variety, but I only leave it in the cage for a day or two at a time. They also get fresh fruit and veggies. The hammock is not Ideal, but lined with fleece it is fine. It does come with the wheel but my rats don't use it all that often. The bedding is fine but it only comes with enough to fill the bottom one time! so you will have to purchase more bedding anyway!!! All in all it is a decent cage, my rats haven't chewed the bottom at all. However, I will eventually be upgrading to a critter nation simply because double stacked it has more space. But for now the cage is fine. It has three doors on it too so the cage is accessible. the cage part also comes off the base easy for super easy cleaning!!! Obviously it isn't a critter nation, but it isn't bad.


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## LeStan82

I have this cage too, but its an older version that has one more level. The hammock is plastic and my rats hated it, you would need a new one. Over all I liked the cage but I did upgrade to a much larger cage. Now I use it for quarantine cage. The ladders were fine. The levels do collect urine but I clipped fleece on to them using binder clips and it worked out well. My rats never chewed through the plastic bottom. And it was easy to clean although you have to be careful that the level clips dont break. It is good for 2 males no more than that. It can house 3 females okay. It can hold alot of beds, hammocks and toys, More than you would think. Its good for a starter cage until you can upgrade to a much larger cage. But if you have the extra money to spend, get something much bigger. bigger is always better and will save money since you wont have to upgrade. Happy shopping


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## artistwolf

Thanks everyone, you really are helping me a lot 

What about the WARE Indoor 4 Level Hutch Small Animal Cage and the Prevue Hendryx Cocoa Frisky Ferret & Rabbit Cage? Are these any good?

Whew I never knew cage shopping was so hard... Lol.


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## ksaxton

The WARE one (or the one I looked up based on that name) looks like it has 1-inch bar spacing, which females and young rats will be able to slip through. The Prevue looks like it has more of a CN structure, but it Is also it looks like 1inch bar spacing, so same issue. You can of course always cover it in hardware cloth, but it's a pain to work with 


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## artistwolf

Hmm, good thought. I do have hardware cloth at home readily available but yes, it would be a pain. There are two large rats for sale on Craigslist as pets, it says they are very friendly and the pictures prove that. I could get them for the cage if I end up getting one with bigger bar spacing.


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## Jaguar

I would haggle on that R-690, personally. Even though it's a bit narrow it will still be a better cage than anything you're going to be able to buy retail. See if you can get it for around $60.


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## LeStan82

You could also check rat or ferret rescue groups to see if they sell cages. There is a ferret rescue down the street from me and she sells nice cages for cheap and the money goes towards her rescue for vet bills, and supplies. She has a dcn brand new for $140 right now and lots of other cages for cheeper, wish I needed it but I already have a large cage. So I thought it might be worth mentioning, to see if someone in your area does that as well.


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## kayepaye

In all my rat keeping experience, I have only ever had 2 rats chew through a plastic cage.
It was 2 semi-feral females that I had, and they chewed a perfect hole right in the plastic.

I have had over three dozen rats in my lifetime and almost ALL have been kept in plastic cages, only those 2 naughty girls chewed through.

As long as they have enough to keep them busy, and they are getting enough exercise, you shouldn't have to worry about them chewing through the cage.

Best of luck getting your new ratties! I had to wait until I moved out on my own to get rats, so it would be so great if your parents let you get a nice pair!!


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## artistwolf

Thanks Kayepaye... I'm still not even 100% sure they'll let me get any rats, but I have convinced them about things in the past (things that have never worked out well though, so that's my only problem XP)

Okay so I'm sorry to keep bothering you, but what is this cage? http://stlouis.craigslist.org/hsh/4605233739.html Thanks


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## PaigeRose

That one looks like some sort of Martin's cage... never seen the pink bars though! But the doors and the wires look the same as my Martin's.


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## artistwolf

That's what I thought too, but when I looked on the website I didn't see it. I could be missing something though haha


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## never-sleep

I have that cage (all living things). It was great for my lone rat and is currently a nice place for my two young boys. But, once they are big enough to be in my largest cage I won't be using it anymore. The shelves are way too hard to adjust and cleaning is never easy. And sometimes is scary how flimsy it seems.

There are pros though. Like the door on top and the deep base pan. I just don't think, if given the chance to go back, I'd still get the cage. I'd definitely chose something better.


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