# Help! Benign or malignant tumor??



## Urbanwolf (Nov 25, 2013)

Hi I was wondering if anyone can tell me if there is a way to know if a tumor is benign or not? 
My poor rat is less than a year old and she recently developed a fast-growing tumor on her abdomen. We went to the vet and she said she is worried it may be malignant. She put her on antibiotics for 2 weeks just to see if it helps at all and said if it doesn't we will have to do surgery. She said she didn't want to try a needle aspiration because my rat will not stop moving for long enough and she would have to sedate her to do that. 
I read the ratfanclub page about tumors and it says surgery isn't recommended for malignant tumors, but it also said "A needle biopsy is not usually helpful in the diagnosis of the type of tumor" So how do you know if it is malignant or not to decide whether to do surgery? ???


I tried to take a photo of it but she is skittish and very active so won't stand still long enough... This is the best I could get: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd....252149_827159214919_7529472086493180657_n.jpg


----------



## LeStan82 (Dec 31, 2013)

There are only 2 ways to determine what type of tumor it is #1: a needle aspirate or #2 : remove the tumor and send it to a lab for a histopathology.


----------



## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

Strange Vet. In either case antibiotics would be useless.


----------



## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

That is super odd. Why did they vet prescribe antibiotics instead of doing an aspiration to get a better look at the contents?

The shape and discoloration concerns me, but it's hard to tell. The vet will need to do a biopsy on the contents via aspiration or removal.


----------



## binkyhoo (Sep 28, 2008)

I am wondering if the vet was hoping it was an infection. A puss pocket. Not every vet knows everything. Sound to me like she may not be so confident doing invasive procedures on a little critter. My vet has done needle aspirations on the wiggliest of my rats. She has also done tooth trimming on my most squirrely girly. I am sure that was not easy.


----------



## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

The thing is that, if the vet thought it was an abscess, they SHOULD have done an aspiration and could have lanced it right then and there depending on the results.

That's neither here nor there at this point, though. My personal recommendation is to see another vet.


----------



## Urbanwolf (Nov 25, 2013)

I think she wanted to try the antibiotics in case it's an abscess/infection although she thinks it most likely isn't because of the look/feel. She knows I don't have a lot of money to do a bunch of tests and this was the most conservative option to figure out if it's something that will respond to antibiotics vs. something that needs to be removed.
My rat is already on steroids because of another issue, which you can read about here if anyone wants to know about that: 
http://www.ratforum.com/showthread....lance-vestibular-problems-after-ear-infection
http://www.ratforum.com/showthread....nfection-damage-(video)&p=1038161#post1038161


----------



## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Not to sound like a broken record, the the needle aspiration would not have added a dime to your bill. If she thought it was an abscess, it would only take a quick prick with a syringe to rule that out rather than being put on antibiotics needlessly. Which can do more harm than good. I can't think of a better way to make an ill rat sicker than to do a quick round of ABs to kill off gut flora.

My recommendation still is to get a second opinion, as this was totally the wrong move from a veterinary standpoint.


----------



## Urbanwolf (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks for the info!
My vet said they would have to sedate her to do an aspirate, because of how squirmy and skittish she is...she writhes around when anyone tries to hold her still, and if restrained she will get scared and agitated. She is deaf, cannot see very well (pink-eyed) and also has a problem with her balance and so I think maybe she gets disoriented when held and then moved around, so that upsets her more.


----------



## Persian_boy (Mar 16, 2014)

As with other posters, definitely getting it to another vet or undergoing the surgery would be a good idea. But as a side note, because you were interested in knowing malignant and benign tumors in rats: it is very hard to tell the state of a tumor from the outside. However here are the common tumors, areas affected, and their severity:


Keratocanthomas
Benign
Develop on chest, back or tail

Mammary fibroadenomas
most common tumors in rats
tumors normally do not become malignant
anywhere on the belly (chin to tail)
recurrence in other parts of the body is common

Pituitary Gland Tumors
common in females
occurence increases with a high calorie diet
affected rats have head tilt, depression, may die suddenly

Testicular Tumors
most of these are benign
recommended treatment is surgical removal

Zymbal's Gland Tumors
uncommon in rats
develop at base of the ear (older rats)
tumors are benign



Source: Kahn, Cynthia M., Line, Scott DVM, PhD, The Merck Manual / Merial Manual for Pet Health. Whithouse Station, NJ: Merck, 2007. Print.


----------



## Urbanwolf (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks for the tumor information! 
I think we're going to do the surgery, because the mass is getting larger and the sore is bigger and seems to be painful when I try to pick her up. 
I'm really nervous about surgery/recovery though.


----------



## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

While every pet owner will always be nervous, keep in mind that modern anesthesia is quite safe, even for little rat bodies. Isoflurane gas is safe in small animals and sevoflurane gas is even safer. With sevoflurane, it only takes a few breaths of the gas to get them out and just a few breaths of oxygen to waken them. The only real complications that arise with tumor removals is if the blood supply is being tricky, or if it is intertwined with organs and needs to be removed more carefully.


----------



## Urbanwolf (Nov 25, 2013)

Ok I was finally about to get a better photo of it today. It's bigger than it was when I first posted and you can really see now that there are two lumps overlapping.  We are going to the vet again tomorrow. She is still running around like usual and has a good appetite, eating/drinking normally. I switched her to softer bedding so it would be more comfortable.

Photo: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd....256196_829688551109_8233245435568522925_n.jpg

The darker area that looks kinda black is a scab from where she's been scratching it.


----------



## brundlefly (Mar 27, 2014)

Poor baby! Best of luck with your little one


----------



## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Ugh... poor thing.

I think I can see discoloration beneath the skin? That worries me, but it's not cause for immediate alarm. 

I feel the most important thing now is removal. Her skin is easily at rupturing point now, which is extremely painful and prone to infection. Please keep us updated... I would not leave that vet's office until removal.


----------



## Hey-Fay (Jul 8, 2013)

cagedbirdsinging said:


> I would not leave that vet's office until removal.


Same here. Don't take no for an answer.


----------



## Urbanwolf (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks, the color on it worried me too. Although some of what looks like discoloration may be the scabby area. We have a vet appointment for tomorrow. However when I made the "regular" appointment, they didn't have any openings for surgery until next week so I made one for then-- hoping when my vet sees it they will be able to fit the surgery in ASAP.


----------



## binkyhoo (Sep 28, 2008)

Poor thing. I am glad you decided to get it took care of. Let us know how it turned out. I have had tumors removed from my gals. It is doable and life carries on.


----------



## Urbanwolf (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks! I was going to get it taken care of no matter what, since we had already scheduled a follow-up appointment and surgery but I just wanted to see what other people thought on malignant or not since my vet thought it could be.
I wanted to give an update, my vet just took a quick look at it today, and then said she would re-check her surgery schedule to see how soon she can get us in because she agreed with me that waiting until the scheduled surgery appointment I had previously made was too long. Right when she went to check, someone called to cancel their appointment for Thursday so my rat is going in for surgery on Thursday.

My vet asked me if I want them to send the tumor for a biopsy when they remove it. I'm not sure if I should, if it would change anything or make a difference in treatment? The biopsy is $160 (on top of the surgery cost), I may need to do a payment plan for the surgery itself already.


----------



## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Honestly, I wouldn't bother with the biopsy. That's just my personal opinion, as it doesn't change much for your girl.


----------



## Urbanwolf (Nov 25, 2013)

I wanted to give an update. She had surgery today and it went well, no complications. The tumor was encapsulated so it was not difficult to remove. The incision is smaller than I expected from my experience with a previous rat who had a mammary tumor removed. I decided not to do the biopsy after doing some research.
They put a "sleeve" on her to keep her from bothering the incision. It's like a tiny rattie t-shirt! She hated it of course and pulled it off after we got home. They said she was leaving the incision alone anyway so hopefully it won't be a problem.


----------



## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

That's great news! I'm so glad that everything went well. What relief you both most feel.


----------

