# Orphan! (Need help, very quickly please!)



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

I came across an orphan rodent today on a hike, lying in the trail. I believe she is a rat, because she is quite large and is marked like an agouti berkshire. (kind of) She is dehydrated (Skin remains tented) and has no milk band- she had been there for hours! I know the first basic care and am starting right away. She'll be on a home-made pedialyte substitute for the night and tomorrow I can get formula.

However. I do not know what formula is appropriate for rats. For mice it is KMR. What should I get for her? 

I also do not know how old she is. Her feet have white hair and her hind legs have very thin whispy hairs growing in. Eyes closed, ears appear closed. Ears too small for mouse ears.

I am going to start by feeding every three hours, just pedialyte for now, and once at night. (may go twice, she is so dehydrated!) She is secure and comfy on a rice sock which I will re-heat tonight when I feed. I will get a heat pad tomorrow, I have one at my mom's house.

She can most likely go to work with me tomorrow, if not I can take breaks to care for her and bike home to do so. I'm waiting for a response from my boss.


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

I have no experience, but I know this is supposed to be a good guide:

http://www.ratfanclub.org/orphans.html

Just know, that young, there is a good chance he/she won't make it :-\


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

It's a feisty little one, obviously not giving up at all. It drank a little bit of pedialyte. I can't get it to poo/pee, but trying again once more before bed.

Soy human formula is the best? How odd. Any other opinions floating around out there about what the baby needs to eat?

I know the chances are low but I simply have to try. There's so much spirit in the little thing that I can't just say goodbye to it- thats the same reason I took it off that trail and brought it here, this one has too much life to become snake food.

Any suggestions are awesome, I want her to grow up strong.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

kmr is a good bet for rat pups, too. a mother rat's milk naturally has lactose in it, so the babies should be able to tolerate a small amount of a normal milk-based baby formula. 

i would not (personally) recommend soy baby formula for any creature, unless it's an absolute emergency or last resort. i have seen the nasty side effects of a soy-based diet in my niece.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

I'm thinking KMR, too- it would benifit from the extra stuff. I believe it is around a week old. 

This little thing is quite feisty, haha. Latched down on the syringe and started sucking down pedialyte, and also peed. There was one very teeny-tiny raisin, and the little one seeks out heat. I've got a heat pad under half the tank and a stuffed animal for the baby to snuggle.


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## jadeangel (Jan 7, 2009)

It sounds like you're doing everything you can for the baby, and I wish you both the best!

I don't blame you at all, even if it was a low percentile of success, I couldn't leave a baby like that


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Esbililac, KMR or human milk formula. The reason soy is suggested is that so many people are convinced rats are lactose intolerant which I personally think is rubbish. 

Now describe feisty baby?

no hair, just pigmentation?

a little hair

lots of hair, eyes going to open soon

eyes open?


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Very slight peach fuzz growing over body, hair on feet. Pigmented. This baby is VERY coordinated. I observed it cleaning it's face, rolling over to clean a foot, and sitting up like an adult to clean it's face. It did not fall over, but balanced with the feet out foreward a bit more than normal and stayed that way until it was satisfied it was clean. Very mobile when it wants to be and it has figured out food and bathroom time very quickly- pees right away and grabs the syringe to suck at it. 

And my &^%$# heat pad sucks. It's a human heat pad, so it auto shuts off. I cannot find in the instructions WHEN exactly it shuts off and it never has until now. It shut off last night (after I re-booted it after the 4 AM feeding) and the baby was very cold when I went to feed it now. I turned the stupid pad on again and put in a warm rice sock until it gets going, the baby will be okay. I'll feed after it gets warm so that the body is able to digest. (they cannot while cold.)

I'm getting a reptile pad today sometime and I'm going to get KMR if I can find it, otherwise normal human formula. Would it be ok to supplement it with small amounts of something like ensure? I am thinking not until it eats solids. The darn thing is very skinny and not getting anything but (essentially) sugar water right now. However it does look better today, it has loose skin yesterday and it was dusty looking, now it has a slight shine to it and the skin looks tight on the body.

Also, pictures are worth a thousand words:










It was sleeping in that photo, it had discovered the heat pad (I had it out to feed, it is not in contact with it normally) and went right to sleep.


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## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

I would recommend an infrared heat pad. Other types can get quite hot and would most likely require some kind of regulator, like a dimmer. Infrared heat pads are safe to the touch, but still warm. They look like this:
http://livefoodonline.com/shop/arti...ermo-Mat-Mat-62W,-46-x-11-inches.html?pse=apq (the food they sell is insects, not rodents)

I agree about the soy being unnecessary. Any nursing mammal will be producing plenty of lactase to properly digest any kind of formula with lactose in it. It is only once they stop nursing that the production of lactase drops and you should worry about how well they are digesting dairy products. Humans are included in this. Anyone who is not lactose intolerant as an adult is carrying a gene that mutated and now enables people to naturally produce lactase throughout their lifetime.

Edit: It has been a year since I have seen babies in person, but my best amateur guess would be 1 - 2 weeks old. Maybe closer to two as the tail looks longish.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Can you post another pic? 
Definitely under 2 weeks of age, but over 1 week...so hard to tell


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

I got a heat pad from the pet store already, it is a tiny one made for reptiles. I'm trying to figure out if I HAVE to stick it on the tank or not, I really don't want to because it won't come off!

I also picked up human formula, and offered the first feeding (very diluted of course!). I think the baby took some of it because although we both ended up covered in it, there were times when it just went in the baby's mouth and didn't come back out.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

There it is! It's on my boyfriend's hand, that is his finger in the picture, he was trying to get it to pay attention to him.

And very promising update from feeding time~ The little one not only drank happily, but got a -drumroll please- milk band! It also pooped two very weeny raisins and peed. It is so eager for food that it munches on the syringe and I can feel it on the other end. I also think it was trying to power suck because a couple of times that little mouth opened WIDE.

Terpiscore- the tail is very long. The baby is also getting very slight fur that is flat and smooth on it's head today.

I really do not see any downhill right now, there have only been improvements upon improvements and it's making me very happy. Do you think it is a roof rat? (or a rat at all?)


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

fur development just now? Maybe a week or under. I am so glad to hear the wee one is doing so well ;D


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## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

I think it would be ok to just pin it under the tank. I think only infrared ones come with tape on them, so you may have gotten one anyway. The older ones will be kind of thick and the infrared ones will be more like a sheet of plastic.

I think I saw in the background of the second pic that the nursery is plastic. I would make sure it does not start to smell when it heats up before putting the little one in there.

Edit: Oops, lol. I was looking at the picture when I was sleepy on my phone. I see now that it is actually a pillow. :


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

There's a very thin, slight coat over the whole baby that appears to be thickening. I am seeing some dark, prominent eye-lids, it appears the eyes are coming pretty soon. They seem to be getting near separation. Also, it's a girl! I was counting nipples.

It's an old one- it's thick and black, it is the brand Zilla. It seems to be working fine, not too hot, maybe a teeny bit cool for my taste but my little girl seems un-bothered.


The nursery is a tank, I believe 5 gallons. It is full of fabric and fleeces and very comfy for her, and the lid locks down. I also put a stuffed toy in for comfort.

What IS it, though? And what on earth do I do with her when she gets big? I'd prefer not to release since they live an average of 8 months in the wild, and that scares the poo out of me. I feel like I'm dooming her. If it is at all possible for me to care for her in a way that she can be happy I will do so- a safe outdoor enclosure can be easily procured, I have a HUGE, very tall metal birdcage that can be wired up to contain a rat, and if she is tamer, a nicely sized indoor space can be made. It all depends on species. I can tell you now that it will be **** to raise her wild- I already hold her all the time, and talk to her, and I'm going to name her soon. -sigh-

This wouldn't be my first totally wild critter, I've had squirrels (temporarily.. Those things never stop moving!) and kept a disabled starling. (he tamed up well.) So, what is your guy's thoughts on that? Oh, and if I keep her I will spay her once she is big enough.


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## jadeangel (Jan 7, 2009)

I say go for it and keep her. I'm not sure of what she is, but that should be more prominent in a couple of weeks as she gets older. I think the cage and such can be decided on better after figuring out what she is exactly xD


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Well, she'll have a place of her own if I keep her. When she gets a bit bigger I'm upgrading her to a small birdcage I have, if I can find the metal bottom for it, and after that...we'll see. I also need to get a vet who will see her, I hope mine will.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Looks like a deer mouse to me.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

She seems large for a mouse..? If she's a mouse I won't keep her- heck, my pet mice aren't even friendly. Wild ones are tough to keep, I know people who tried.

I'll try to get a weight on her.

She won't poo for me and for two feedings won't pee either. I keep finding her covered in poo- she seems to be going on her own. It's worrying me.

She also fell today, I feel like a total monster. My hand wasn't fast enough to snatch her when she went sprinting toward my counter and she hit the hard floor. She doesn't seem hurt, but after that she wasn't sprinting anymore. I am afraid she is hurt internally and we will loose her.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Can you weigh her? I have relative weights on my rat babies to compare to...


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

5.3 grams. She's tiny! She LOOKS huge compared to my mice, it seems unlikely for her to end up near that size but I guess possible.

She is still moving around and curious, slightly less than before she fell, but it's been almost an hour. How long do you think until I know for sure she won't die from the fall?

And, any suggestions to get her to go potty? I had found that dipping her abdomen in warm water encouraged pooping but it has not been today. She started walking funny and trying to poop earlier and despite the fact I picked her up right away to stimulate her, she would not go.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Kinsey said:


> 5.3 grams. She's tiny! She LOOKS huge compared to my mice, it seems unlikely for her to end up near that size but I guess possible.
> 
> She is still moving around and curious, slightly less than before she fell, but it's been almost an hour. How long do you think until I know for sure she won't die from the fall?
> 
> And, any suggestions to get her to go potty? I had found that dipping her abdomen in warm water encouraged pooping but it has not been today. She started walking funny and trying to poop earlier and despite the fact I picked her up right away to stimulate her, she would not go.


The wiping isn't working?

Let's hope she's just sore from her fall.

She's not a rat that's for sure


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Not for two feedings- she was urinating every single time I tried before then, but for the past two she has not gone, neither with wiping or warm water. However she did try to poop by herself.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

I just fed again, she urinated this time and again had pooped herself, but would not poo for me. I tried both before and after feeding. Would it be okay to put her bottom in warm water and massage her abdomen? We do this with my aunt's bearded dragon, who has MBD and his hips collapsed at one time and he cannot poop without our assistance. If we gently massage him in warm water he goes like crazy, poor boy.

She seems to be just fine after the fall, she was zooming around my counter again so much that I locked her in her cage until I had everything set up. I don't put her down ever because of how much she runs around.  My dad is shocked at how utterly hyper the little one is- she's so young! She cannot see, nor, I think, hear.

She seems a bit round in the tummy to me, do you think she could be bloated? I will try to get a picture of her pre-feeding tummy. After she eats she gets kind of bulgy with milk. (I don't think I'm overdoing it, I only go until there is a milk band. It appears on the left of her very visibly, so that's the side I watch. She has not yet rejected food, and I'm scared she'll overeat, so I take it from her when she looks full.)


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

I went ahead and tried very gently massaging her and she did poo some, she seems very stopped up and I'm scared she will go septic soon, any suggestions?

Is she does, it will kill her, so I must get the poop out ASAP.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Kinsey said:


> I went ahead and tried very gently massaging her and she did poo some, she seems very stopped up and I'm scared she will go septic soon, any suggestions?
> 
> Is she does, it will kill her, so I must get the poop out ASAP.


There's not a lot you can do, but keep trying with the warm water. By day 4 you shouldn't be able to see the milk band in rat pups so I am worried she's younger than we think, reducing her chances


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

I hopped over to thefunmouse, and I know why she bloated- unlike rats, baby mice cannot ever ever ever have anything but KMR. A bit of karo syrup and she cleared out, now I am trying to stabilise her and start her on my (22 dollar) KMR. She's dropped a gram since yesterday, which I think is mostly because of bloat. 

I also want to know, can I give my rats KMR or human formula mixed with things like oatmeal? I don't want to waste this expensive stuff! I think they might like it.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Sadly, she passed on today. Yesterday one eye opened but her body was still that of a much younger mouse- she was badly stunted and I think something was wrong internally. She died warm and happy and with her belly full on her heat pad, so I still feel like I made a difference in her life.

And what do you think about my new boys and adults getting KMR and human formula as treats? it freezes for six months but then I'll have to use it.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Kinsey said:


> Sadly, she passed on today. Yesterday one eye opened but her body was still that of a much younger mouse- she was badly stunted and I think something was wrong internally. She died warm and happy and with her belly full on her heat pad, so I still feel like I made a difference in her life.
> 
> And what do you think about my new boys and adults getting KMR and human formula as treats? it freezes for six months but then I'll have to use it.


I have seen this asked before and the medical people didn't advise it...sorry.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Okay, I'll freeze it and hopefully a baby something will come along to eat it.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

I am sorry Kinsey, I meant to say that earlier


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