# Eye problems



## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

Hi all,

I'm in desperate need of advice over what to do about my Archie's eyes. Archie is a 5 month old male rat. He was neutered 2 and a half weeks ago and around a week afterwards I noticed that both of his eyes had gone cloudy. Initially I thought he was just very unlucky and had developed cataracts at a very early age but when I examined his eyes closely and compared it to pictures of cataracts on the internet I realised it wasn't cataracts. The blobs of grey appear to be on top of the eyeball so that they actually stick out of his eye, leaving his eye with a rough surface. They are also a blob shape - not perfect circles like you would see with cataracts. Of course, as soon as I noticed it I took him to my vet. I have a fantastic relationship with my vet, I live 2 doors down from them and they helped me massively when my cat was in the final stages of life due to a heart tumour and continue to be very helpful in treating one of my other rats with what we suspect is a Zymbals Tumour. They all adore Archie at the vets and I don't think they would ever be negligent in their treatment - I just think they can't fully see the problem. Of course, when Archie is at home he'll sit on my lap quietly and I can get a good look at his eyes but when he's at the vets he is less than keen (although he's a lot better behaved at the vets than my female, Poppy!). My vet diagnosed him with dry eyes, saying that the surface of the eye looks dry and it must be a strange side affect from surgery. I can roll with that, it seems like a fair diagnosis although it was made by her only looking briefly at his eyes with her naked eye while he wriggled. I took him home and began the fun job of getting eye drops into his eyes twice a day  The eye drops he was prescribed if it's relevant were Viscotears. 

A couple of days later he started to look really miserable. He was squinting in one of his eyes, lethargic and his eyes just looked so awful so I took him back. I asked the vet if she could gas him to get a really good look at his eyes but she decided against it. This time she prescribed Fucithalmic eye drops which are used to treat conjunctivitis. Archie has been having the eye drops twice a day religiously and his eyes haven't improved at all. In fact, I'm starting to worry about him going blind. One of the things the vet asked me was whether he'd had discharge from his eyes but it's difficult to know with a rat like Archie as he's just so clean! He's constantly cleaning his face although last night I did notice a bit of Porphyrin in the corner of his eye (before he cleaned it off )

I rang my vet today to ask whether Archie needed to come in again as his eyes still weren't improving but her response was that he simply has dry eyes and I just need to keep putting drops in them?! I don't feel that dry eyes would create lumpy white blobs on the surface of his eye surely? Maybe I'm wrong but I just feel so sorry for poor Archie as I can tell his eyes do hurt him and I just want to know I'm doing the right thing. Does anyone have any experience with anything like this? I'll take any advice! And I hope I haven't missed any relevant information, if I have then I'm sorry, this is my first post ^.^

Thank you!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Is it possible something is stuck under his eyelids or in his eye? Both eyes are dull, but are both showing an irregular appearance? Is Archie furred or not?
I think he does need to be gassed down so his eyes can be examined properly. I had a little mock hairless girl who seemed to have an eye infection, we put her on drops and oral antibiotics. It didn't help...I took her back and remembering something someone had posted years ago, asked my vet if he could gas my girl down and check for debris in her eyes...well it turns out she had chunks of bedding undernearth her 3rd eyelid...it was rubbing and scratching her cornea. The debris was carefully removed, and her eyes flushed/ Unfortunately she had to have this procedure a few more times over her lifetime as we figured she was born with a faulty tear duct on that eye. Since then I have run into more and more hairless rats that need this help.

Has the eye changed shape besides the lump? Has it swelled up or shrunk at all? This would mean vitreous fluid from the eye is leaking out. Not a good thing.


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

Hey, thanks for replying! 

Archie has fur ^.^ I had wondered if he had something stuck in his eyes too, as I've read about rats with similar problems and that was the cause. Both eyes are dull and rough in appearance with an area of grey in the middle. This area of grey has irregular shape and doesn't seem to be cataracts to me. There doesn't appear to be any swelling or redness around the eyes though. 

Archie has an appointment booked on Monday for an injection (anti-inflammatory as he seems to have some skin problems) and I'm going to see if I can beg the vet to gas him. Either that, or switch to the vet who dealt with Poppy and her Zymbals Tumour as she seemed to listen to me more. The vet currently seeing Archie is supposed to be the rodent specialist at my surgery and she sure does adore him but I think she has the opinion that owners don't know what they're talking about and I feel that she ignores a lot of what I say.


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

Oh, and I meant to add that the roughness is only on those areas of grey. The surrounding bits of his eyes look fine.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Hmmmm...could it be glaucoma?

Young rats can develop glaucoma, a pressure underneath the eyeball. I take it the grey is right in the middle of his eyeball?


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

Yep, it's right in the middle of the eyeball on both eyes.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Jay.Winters said:


> Yep, it's right in the middle of the eyeball on both eyes.


and for sure not cataracts? Young rats can develop them. I know a baby girl who was born with them.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Can you post a pic? If you cannot, I have pics of all sorts of eye stuff you can compare to.


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

I did initially consider cataracts but in all the pictures I saw the grey bit was a circle and Archie's isn't anything like that. It's almost like a smear over his eye. It's also the sort of grainy appearance of it that made me feel it wasn't cataracts. My vet also said that his eyes are definitely dry and I do agree with her as they do look better once I've put some eye drops in. I'm just questioning what it is that is causing his eyes to become so dry and cloudy. 

I looked up Glaucoma and came across this: http://ratguide.com/health/figures/glaucoma_figure_2.php His eyes do look sort of like that but there's no swelling and the grey part is much much smaller, taking up around a quarter of his eye or less.


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

Pictures don't show it very well but I've got this picture that I took when his eyes first turned cloudy. I don't think it really shows what's going on very well though because I think it looks like cataracts when it's photographed


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

HAHAHA - didn't realize you linked Tepeu's glaucoma case history before this. I have a few case histories up on ratguide.

OK here's some more pics

early cataracts










This was glaucoma/uveitis - her eye had to be removed eventually










Acquired glaucoma (or tramatic...injury related)...her eye was removed as well


















Cataracts (genetic, not age related)


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

Out of all of those pictures it looks the most like the close up of the acquired Glaucoma as that looked slightly bumpy too. But there is definitely no bulging and the grey takes up far less of the eye than in the picture. I'm still leaning towards him having something stuck in his eye, especially as I can see what looks like a grain of sand sticking out of one of Archie's eyes. 

Gah. This is driving me mad. I seem to have the worst luck with my pets and it's not for lack of trying to look after them. I'm literally in and out of my vets with one thing or another and on Poppy alone (my female with what we think is a Zymbals Tumour) I've spent £300 plus on vet bills


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Jay.Winters said:


> Out of all of those pictures it looks the most like the close up of the acquired Glaucoma as that looked slightly bumpy too. But there is definitely no bulging and the grey takes up far less of the eye than in the picture. I'm still leaning towards him having something stuck in his eye, especially as I can see what looks like a grain of sand sticking out of one of Archie's eyes.
> 
> Gah. This is driving me mad. I seem to have the worst luck with my pets and it's not for lack of trying to look after them. I'm literally in and out of my vets with one thing or another and on Poppy alone (my female with what we think is a Zymbals Tumour) I've spent £300 plus on vet bills


oh dear Zymbals? That's awful 

ZGT - tumour will be below the ear...may abscess, and once it ruptures the lump will still be there  Location is actually a huge determination on if its ZGT. Its not operable, you can just give them antibiotics and pain meds and keep them comfortable until its time to let them go.

Do you have a pic of her?


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

Poppy had a long history, she's doing alright for the moment but I'm happy to tell you about her if you're interested? The location is just below her ear and presented like they all do, with an abscess. The vet has confirmed that even if it isn't a Zymbals she definitely has a tumour somewhere in her ear and there's nothing they can do for her. Poor little thing.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

right below or slightly behind? Did they give you metacam? Has it opened up?


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

It's slightly behind her ear.

I'll explain it all. A couple of months back Poppy presented suddenly with a large lump just below and slightly behind her ear. We thought it was a tumour and literally rushed her to my vets within 10 minutes of discovering it (as i've said, it's very fortunate being 2 doors down from your vets ). The vet gassed her and aspirated it and told us she had an abscess and gave her antibiotics for a week, telling us that if it hadn't gone after a week she'd need surgery. The antibiotics helped but it didn't go away fully so she had surgery. The vet said it was an unusual abscess as it wasn't encapsulated but she cleared out what she could. Before she'd even had the stitches out it had come back so she had surgery again. This time the vet said that the infection went very deep and seemed to be coming from her ear. She fixed Poppy up and sent her home again but the same thing happened, the abscess came back almost straight away. The vet was very kind. She explained that it seems like Poppy has something very wrong with her ear and the likelihood was that she had a tumour in there somewhere. She offered to try and remove the entire ear canal but I think this was more a gesture of kindness towards me (it's always nice to have options - even if they are bad options). I declined and I think she was relieved. So, Poppy came home with what was essentially a death sentence and it was a very bad time for me. She was put on life time antibiotics and we were told to just keep her happy. Amazingly, the long term antibiotics really seemed to helps and when the abscess came around the third time after the antibiotics it ruptured and emptied by itself. After that she has just been left with a small green scab that occasionally fills up and empties itself. Other than that she seemed fine in herself. Not long after that she grew a huge Mammary Tumour on her side. It literally grew so fast you could see the difference each day. Initially myself and my partner we not keen to put her through yet another surgery so we left it as it didn't cause her any discomfort. We did take her for a check up though and since her ear was doing so well the vet advised us to have the Mammary Tumour removed as soon as possible as if we left it any longer it was going to invade her front leg. By the time the tumour was removed it was bigger than a cherry tomato but my little Poppy was amazing, as always. That rat never ceases to amaze me. She recovered well, although she pulled all the stiches and glue out within a day but she still healed nicely. That was around a month ago and she's still going strong. The only thing I continue to see is the little green scab below her ear that occasionally empties, some slight weight loss from her face and a head tilt.


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

Oh, and the antibiotic she takes every day is Baytril.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Jay.Winters said:


> Oh, and the antibiotic she takes every day is Baytril.


Soo glad to hear this, its definitely not zymbals gland, but possibly an infection that drains down out of her ear. When the little abscess opens up, do you flush the cavity?


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

I occasionally put a warm compress on it if it looks like it needs to drain and I do have some Hibiscrub here to flush it with although I tend to just leave her be to be honest. I think the scab does really hurt her as she hates you even touching near it. To be honest, it's such a tiny little scab these days I don't worry about it. It doesn't really fill up properly either as that scab will just fall off if there's anything underneath it. I noticed last night that the scab had come away and the tissue underneath looked quite healthy! There wasn't a hole and it was pink/red skin! I always hold out hope that maybe whatever this is will just resolve itself, although I know it's probably pretty unlikely since she's been on antibiotics now for about 3 months.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Jay.Winters said:


> I occasionally put a warm compress on it if it looks like it needs to drain and I do have some Hibiscrub here to flush it with although I tend to just leave her be to be honest. I think the scab does really hurt her as she hates you even touching near it. To be honest, it's such a tiny little scab these days I don't worry about it. It doesn't really fill up properly either as that scab will just fall off if there's anything underneath it. I noticed last night that the scab had come away and the tissue underneath looked quite healthy! There wasn't a hole and it was pink/red skin! I always hold out hope that maybe whatever this is will just resolve itself, although I know it's probably pretty unlikely since she's been on antibiotics now for about 3 months.


Ears are tricky...very tricky.

I had a girl here whose ear had actually been bittend and then healed over so there was no opening in her ear. She developed an inner ear infecftion and the pus actually burrowed its way out the back of her ear. My vet actually went in and opened up the back area, and drained it and I flushed it a few times, and it healed over...she never had any more issues. I had a very special soft flexible tip to put on my syringe to get it in that tiny hole. I wonder if your vet would give you one of those just in case?



















if your girl seems like there is pain, do you have any metacam or pain meds for her? You also might want to switch up antibiotics...baytril is great stuff but maybe clavamox or metrodanizole or chloramphenicol palmitate would actually kill the reamining bacteria? Getting the bacteria cultured and a sensitivity test done is best but it can be expensive, since there's lab work, so most vets will just keep changing meds til they find the right one. Just things to think about. She sounds like she's a lucky little lady


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

This has actually really given me hope that there may be something we can do for Poppy :] I was sort of resigned to her fate but I'm going back into my vets on Monday for a check up on Archie's eyes and I'm going to speak to them about seeing if we can look into trying some new things for Poppy :] So thanks for that  I'll let you know how we get on  I'm also really going to push for a proper eye examination for Archie as I really think he may have something stuck in his eyes. I just think my vet cannot diagnose what's wrong without giving his eyes a proper examination. He's bright enough but it breaks my heart seeing his eyes this way


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

Well, Archie went for his check up today and it's good news 

Apparently his eyes are looking much better and the vet finally explained to me what the bump of grey I was seeing across Archie's eyes. According to her, it's plaque caused by the dryness and should eventually disappear. She said that his eyes are looking much more lubricated and that's without him having had eye drops yet today! She is hopeful that the problem will eventually resolve itself. Archie seems a lot happier in himself too.

Not such amazing news for Poppy but it's not all bad. I spoke to her about the possibility of Poppy having exploratory surgery to discern where the infection was coming from but the vet explained that when she performed surgery on Poppy the infection wan't coming from her ear, as I had previously understood. Apparently it is very deep and appears to be coming from deep inside her lymphatic system and she really feels that since Poppy is doing so well on antibiotics there is no point poking around. She even said there's a chance Poppy will eventually fully recover! 

Thanks for all the advice


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

That really is good news all around. 

This was Twiggy's battle with a infected salivary gland

http://www.goosemoose.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,118/forum,rat/topic,4083229.0


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

Unfortunately the link is not working for me  Do you think Poppy may be suffering from the same thing?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Ugh, what a pain, they must have broken the link when they changed servers.

No, I just wanted you to see that there's so many things it could've been

http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=23775&hilit=twiggy+abscess


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

Whoa, that was an insane abscess! It makes the one Poppy had look pathetic in comparison! 

I was just wondering if I could bend your ear again on advice about Poppy? I've just noticed that the eye on the opposite side of her head that has the scab is starting to bulge. Do you think there's pressure in her head? I looked with a light to get a clearer view and I can see that her pupils actually point in different directions. The eye doesn't look sore or anything and it looks like she has no problem closing it. What do you think?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Jay.Winters said:


> Whoa, that was an insane abscess! It makes the one Poppy had look pathetic in comparison!
> 
> I was just wondering if I could bend your ear again on advice about Poppy? I've just noticed that the eye on the opposite side of her head that has the scab is starting to bulge. Do you think there's pressure in her head? I looked with a light to get a clearer view and I can see that her pupils actually point in different directions. The eye doesn't look sore or anything and it looks like she has no problem closing it. What do you think?


are you able to get me a pic of her head face on?

Bend away, I enjoy this even if its for sucky reasons.


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

I will try my best this evening when I give her antibiotics, bear with me!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Jay.Winters said:


> I will try my best this evening when I give her antibiotics, bear with me!


No problem  if I don't answer right away, give me a poke by PM


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

I didn't manage to get a picture last night but I did this morning. It looks like some of the swelling has gone down to me. There's a slight difference in her eyes but I don't think it's as bad as it was. It's HER right eye (so the left eye when you're looking at the picture) Here's the pictures I got: 







That's Archie (with the improving eyes) in the background 














And here's a picture of the tiny scab behind Poppy's ear:








Looking at these photo's again I definitely think her eye isn't nearly as swollen as it was, maybe it fluctuates? Or maybe she's on the mend! ^.^


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Is she an older girl? At first I wasn't sure if it was her right eye, or if the left eye was sunken in a little, but the 2nd pic shows better. I think at this point you are keeping an eye on it, and I think that's all you can do.

Hmmm...can you take another few pics of Archie? Often when I am taking pics is when I will notice a cataract before I see it with the naked eye. You would be surprised at how many things a pic can show you healthwise


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

I've got lots of pictures of Archie's eyes as I thought they might help diagnose his eye problem. Tbh, I think in photo's it does make the plaque he has on his eyes look like cataracts but I'm happy to post more pictures as you're interested. 
(These photo's were taken when his eyes first became cloudy and his eyes are looking much better now - although not fully healed yet!)


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

I wonder if he just scratched his cornea and its finally healing? He really is an adorable guy


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## Jay.Winters (Sep 28, 2012)

Just a little update with Archie's progress. The vet advised us to reduce his lubricating eye drops from twice a day to once a day to see if his eyes could maintain lubrication and so far so good. The curious thing is, Archie has had to go on antibiotics for a little abscess that developed after his castration and the antibiotics seem to have done wonders for his eyes  His left eye has almost no grey plaque left on it at all (he has a tiny little smear on the centre of it but that's it) and the right eye is steadily improving too (the right eye was always the worst of the two). I wonder if it was the antibiotics that has helped or if it is just a coincidence? I mean, he was on antibiotic eye drops for a while which didn't seem to make any difference but then again, the antibiotic eye drops were for conjunctivitis (as a preventative measure) and the antibiotics he's currently on is Baytril which is obviously different. It's all a bit of a mystery really. My vet adores Archie and she's been very good although even she doesn't really know what's going on with his eyes. Her best guess is that he had a weird reaction to the anesthetic when he was castrated causing him to have chronic dry eyes which in turn caused some weird grey plaques to build up on his eye. I dunno, I've honestly had such bizarre problems with my rats that I don't know why I'm surprised that Archie has some kind of mysterious eye complaint. I am literally in my vets so often that I am on first person terms with all the vets and nurses there


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