# Agressive male rat (I seriously need help)



## Ratata (Oct 23, 2012)

I have three male rats. They're about one year old. About a month ago one of them started bullying one (let's call him ratty) of the other two rats. The ratty started being scared of the agressive one and that just gave him more power so he got more agressive and I had to seperate the agressive rat from the others. So he lives alone now. (I also got bit by the bully rat few times when I tried to seperate them.) I have tried manymany times to put them back together but it doesn't work at all. And now the agressive one doesn't feel well because he's alone. He have started to chasing his tail and doing other a bit maniac stuff but the head thing is that he have started attacking me. For example when I'm cleaning his cage and I don't let him go out of there. He isn't just nipping, he bites. And it hurts..
So what should I do with him? I don't think that the right solution is to have him alone like that. He doesn't feel well and me neither. I really need help.


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## gal5150 (Aug 14, 2012)

What size is the cage that you have him in?


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## Ratata (Oct 23, 2012)

The cage where he is right now is 90x50cm. Those mesurements are from the base and the height is only 45cm because the cage belongs to my guinea pigs.


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## ILoveMyMonsters (May 25, 2012)

For starters: what cage did you have him and his cagemates in prior to his aggressive behavior? His isolation cage sounds like an okay size for him, but I wouldn't have this as a long term solution. He sounds very unhappy in his new arrangement and is most likely lashing out of frustration, confusion, and boredom. The biting incident you described sounded like he was itching to get out and you wouldn't let him while performing the chaotic duties of cage cleaning, and again, he lashed out. A larger cage provides him with more space and thus more territory. If you do plan to keep him fly solo, know that solitary rats require 4+ hours a day of interaction from humans, and even that cannot replace the company of another rat.

You say "bullying" but what behaviors is he showing exactly towards the other males? Do their spats draw blood or no? Are the other males retaliating or instigating anything at all? 6-12 months old (sometimes as young as 4 months) is prime time for hormonal aggression. I would suggest having him neutered, because that's what this sounds like it is. My Tanto was exhibiting the beginning signs of this same thing (bullying his more submissive cagemate Axl constantly, marking EVERYTHING, etc.). The final straw came when I caught him hissing and lunging at Axl, backing him into a corner and biting his face. He was neutered after that, and is showing a remarkable improvement temperament-wise. Neutering for rats is fairly cheap at $25-$100 and is relatively safe.


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## Ratata (Oct 23, 2012)

''His isolation cage sounds like an okay size for him, but I wouldn't have this as a long term solution. He sounds very unhappy in his new arrangement and is most likely lashing out of frustration, confusion, and boredom.'' 
I agree all of those things. The reason why I'm asking for help is that I don't want to have this solution as a long term solution and I know he feels unhappy. If he would feel happy I wouldn't feel like I have to do anything to change things. 

''If you do plan to keep him fly solo, know that solitary rats require 4+ hours a day of interaction from humans, and even that cannot replace the company of another rat.''
I'm not going to have him alone. I see how miserable he is alone and I can't stand it at all. 

''You say "bullying" but what behaviors is he showing exactly towards the other males? Do their spats draw blood or no?''
''Ratty'' does not retealiate. He just submits and lays down on the floor with his back to the ground. The bully rat doesn't go away when ''Ratty'' submits. He just stays there and if ''Ratty'' moves only a bit he bites him. When the bully rat started acting agressive against Ratty, there was blood. The agressive one bit Ratty's paw and it started bleeding. I was in panic.

''6-12 months old (sometimes as young as 4 months) is prime time for hormonal aggression. I would suggest having him neutered, because that's what this sounds like it is. My Tanto was exhibiting the beginning signs of this same thing (bullying his more submissive cagemate Axl constantly, marking EVERYTHING, etc.). The final straw came when I caught him hissing and lunging at Axl, backing him into a corner and biting his face. He was neutered after that, and is showing a remarkable improvement temperament-wise. Neutering for rats is fairly cheap at $25-$100 and is relatively safe. ''
Thanks. I think I should try neutering then. I hope it helps.


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## gal5150 (Aug 14, 2012)

Yeah, he sounds horribly frustrated and it's good that you acknowledge that. How many hammocks, howdy holes, etc do they have in the community cage? My only hesitation with the neuter is that a)he's only bullying the one cagemate and b) when the cagemate submits, he walks away. It very well may be a hormone issue resolved by a neuter....but it may not be. So let's problem solve a bit just to make sure you don't through a neuter and end up not getting the results you're wanting. Are you letting them play together at all? I'm wanting more info on the rat who's being bullied's behavior. Let's figure put why he's the target. In the mean time check put this article: http://www.ratballs.com/RatTails/Tails103.html


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## Ratata (Oct 23, 2012)

gal5150 said:


> Yeah, he sounds horribly frustrated and it's good that you acknowledge that. How many hammocks, howdy holes, etc do they have in the community cage? My only hesitation with the neuter is that a)he's only bullying the one cagemate and b) when the cagemate submits, he walks away. It very well may be a hormone issue resolved by a neuter....but it may not be. So let's problem solve a bit just to make sure you don't through a neuter and end up not getting the results you're wanting. Are you letting them play together at all? I'm wanting more info on the rat who's being bullied's behavior. Let's figure put why he's the target. In the mean time check put this article: http://www.ratballs.com/RatTails/Tails103.html





gal5150 said:


> Yeah, he sounds horribly frustrated and it's good that you acknowledge that. How many hammocks, howdy holes, etc do they have in the community cage? My only hesitation with the neuter is that a)he's only bullying the one cagemate and b) when the cagemate submits, he walks away. It very well may be a hormone issue resolved by a neuter....but it may not be. So let's problem solve a bit just to make sure you don't through a neuter and end up not getting the results you're wanting. Are you letting them play together at all? I'm wanting more info on the rat who's being bullied's behavior. Let's figure put why he's the target. In the mean time check put this article: http://www.ratballs.com/RatTails/Tails103.html


My rats have less hiding places I think they should have, I admit. There are three places they like to hide and just hang out. I should get them more. Can this influence to their behavior? 
I maybe wrote unclearly but I meant that the bully doesn't walk away when ''Rattie'' submits. He stays there and waits if Rattie moves and then dominates him more by biting and kicking with his back leg. 
Right now I'm not letting them play together at all. First I tried to let him play with the other of the two who isn't scared and as much dominated by the bully. At first it went okay but then they started fighting same way. I had to stop having these ''playing times''. (Bully starts the fights and when the other runs away from the fight he starts to chase him or if he doesn't know where the other rat is he starts to search for him.) When I let the bully out of his cage he hangs out next to the cage where the other two are. Usually he or the rat that I just mentioned tries to attack against the other or they are just standing in the dominate position what they do before fights. (Only back legs on the ground and trying to look as big as possible, you know.)
The rat that are the bully rat's victim has always been most relaxed and he doesn't want to fight with others. When all of the rats were out of the cage at the same time and the bully started bullying ''the victim rat'', the victim came to me because he felt when I hold him he was safe. I think that the peace-loving character is the reason why he submits and scares the bully rat. And I think that's one of the reasons that the bully dares to bully him. It is easier to bully someone who isn't defending him/herself, isn't it? But I have no idea why the bully rat originally started the bullying and being agressive against the other rats. 
I almost forgot to mention that the bully one has always been a bit nervous and scared of people. Before this agressive behaviour started he had started to trust in me better. Does this information have a value?


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## gal5150 (Aug 14, 2012)

That's all really great information. Lots of hammocks and hides holes or nesting boxes is important, especially with males. Adding a few more would be great! What your describing does sound like a neuter would help. I just didn't want you to do it and still have the problem. I also want you to be prepared that even with the neuter, your one rat may still be a target of bullying as he appears to trigger it for whatever reason. But a neuter may help with the intensity of the bullying. Good luck and keep us posted!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I just did a reply to a similar problem... it's not exactly yours but you might get a few ideas from my comments here

http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?52126-Time-to-get-snipped


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## Ratata (Oct 23, 2012)

gal5150 said:


> That's all really great information. Lots of hammocks and hides holes or nesting boxes is important, especially with males. Adding a few more would be great! What your describing does sound like a neuter would help. I just didn't want you to do it and still have the problem. I also want you to be prepared that even with the neuter, your one rat may still be a target of bullying as he appears to trigger it for whatever reason. But a neuter may help with the intensity of the bullying. Good luck and keep us posted!


Tomorrow I'll start searching a vet who could do the neuter. I really hope it helps! I also get more hiding places for them as soon as possible. I'll let you guys know how everything works or doesn't work out.


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## Ratata (Oct 23, 2012)

Rat Daddy said:


> I just did a reply to a similar problem... it's not exactly yours but you might get a few ideas from my comments here
> 
> http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?52126-Time-to-get-snipped


Thanks! I read that topic right now.


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## Ratata (Oct 23, 2012)

Rat Daddy said:


> I just did a reply to a similar problem... it's not exactly yours but you might get a few ideas from my comments here
> 
> http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?52126-Time-to-get-snipped



You're talking about unsocialized rats and how they act in a pack. The agressive rat is, for some reason, a bit scared of people. He is letting me touch him but he doesn't like it very much. When I pick him up he sometimes squeeks because he's scared. He has always been like that although I got him the same time as the other rats. The other two are well socialized and they don't scare to be held even by strangers. Could that be the answer in my case too although the agressive behavior hasn't started right in the beginning?


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Hormonal agression can actually be caused by a rat becoming an alpha when there is a problem with the pack order that should be lead and managed by a human.

"I almost forgot to mention that the bully one has always been a bit nervous and scared of people. Before this agressive behaviour started he had started to trust in me better. Does this information have a value?"

In itself no... but its hinting at a much bigger problem. 

The diagnosis of genetic hormonal agression looks something like this:

You start out with a perfectly friendly well socialized male rattie. You are spending at least a couple of hours a day playing with him. He knows his name and plays with you and he is easily handleable and spends daily play sessions interacting with you and his cagemates... He has gone through normal playfighting and he respects you as his alpha and reasonably accepts your direction. At around 2 to 3 months old he hits puberty and starts attacking everything in sight that includes you as well as his cagemates. There is othewise no change in his play schedule with you or other enviornmental change.

Otherwise, your problem is more likely a socialization issue and surgery isn't going to fix it. 

As to your bully being alone. I've had only rats and really there was no problem with them as long as they had plenty of out of cage play time with myself and my daughter. 

I know when someone posts the details of their problem they often neglect to post the information that doesn't seem to relate to the problem. Normally I like to assume that everything else is fine. But you've hinted that things weren't fine before the problem started. 

How old were the rats when you got them, how long were your play sessons, how frequent were they, how did your ratties react to you and to eachother when you had them out of their cage before, during and after the onset of the problem, do they know their names and how do they respond when called, did something change in your home and other than isolation what have you tried to do to change your bully's behavior? 

I'm not saying surgery is wrong, but as for me, I don't see enough here to make a really good diagnosis.


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## Ratata (Oct 23, 2012)

Rat Daddy said:


> Hormonal agression can actually be caused by a rat becoming an alpha when there is a problem with the pack order that should be lead and managed by a human.
> 
> "I almost forgot to mention that the bully one has always been a bit nervous and scared of people. Before this agressive behaviour started he had started to trust in me better. Does this information have a value?"
> 
> ...


I posted today a question about the socializing thing when I had red the link you put earlier. I asked would my case have the same issue. I wonder why the post isn't here. You're saying that I hinted things but I didn't do that on purpose. I don't know if you have noticed, but my mothertongue isn't english so writing is a bit harder for me so I do forget to say things. Also I didn't know that if it matters if I haven't told that the agressive one is not well socialized. I don't think that things weren't fine before this. We got a long well even if the rat was a bit scared. He had his friends so I didn't think its very important to have him as my friend too. 

The rats were about two months when i got them. I didn't mesure how long were the play lessons. At first I let them run on my bed because it was easier to get them back to the cage when they didn't trust me and socialize with them. When they got socialized I let them run all over the room. At this point the agressive one didn't trust us at all even the other two did. Now the things have become a lot better but he's still a bit anxious. Before the agressive behavior had started the rat got along well excpet the agressive one and the other rat that isn't scared of him had little fights sometimes but they weren't bad at all. I let them be out of the cage everyday for about 2-3 hours or more before I went to sleep. (My rats sleeps almost whole day and they wake up when it's about six o'clock)
My rats doesn't know their names. I haven't tried to teach them to them because I didn't think that's unecessary. 
Thing that have changed in my home is that here came a new guinea pig before that agressive behavior started. Can that influence to his behavior even if the rats and the guinea pigs doesn't interact with each other? 
I tried to isolate the agressive one for several days and tried then put them back together if they had calmed down but it didn't work. It worked only if I did it during day and they we're sleepy but right when they woke up the agressive behavior started again. 
Ask me more if you want to know something. I'll tell you everything you need to know because I don't really have anything to hide.


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## gal5150 (Aug 14, 2012)

Ok, the addition of a new guinea pig is a rather large change in the household that may have something to do with this. Male or female guinea pig and where are the guinea pigs in relation to the rats.


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## Ratata (Oct 23, 2012)

gal5150 said:


> Ok, the addition of a new guinea pig is a rather large change in the household that may have something to do with this. Male or female guinea pig and where are the guinea pigs in relation to the rats.


The new guinea pig is male. There are two pigs and they don't care about the rats and usually the rats don't care about them either. Sometimes ratties goes next to pigs' cage and tries to attack them but after that they just goes away and forgets the whole thing.


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## Ratata (Oct 23, 2012)

I forgot to say that the guinea pigs and rats lives in the same room so they see each other most of the time.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

First of all your english is excellent, and no worse than many native speakers typing in a hurry.

Second goes to pack order. Rats are social animals, and they are very smart. They absolutely can feel emotions like envy, jealousy, anger, sadness etc and act on them. And if a clear cut pack order isn't present things will get out of hand espceially when things change even a little.

Now let me try to avoid translation problems by using an example... Rats are intellegent pack animals like dogs so we will simply substitute the word dog for rat and see how it reads back to you:

You say you have three *dogs* for 10 months and you haven't taught them their names. And you thought that because your three *dogs* have each other, their relationship to you is not important. 

After a neary a year you get along well with your *dog* even if he was still scared of you. 

About a month ago one of your *dogs* got more friendly towards you and started beating up another *dog*, so you put one *dog* in a seperate cage.

Can you see where this isn't the way you would handle dogs given the same situation? If you had three dogs for 10 months they would know their names, you would insist they play with and respect you, your dogs wouldn't still be afraid of you, and you would get in between if your dogs started fighting and take charge to make peace rather than put them in seperate cages. If these were 3 dogs you would be their leader and they would follow you, not each other and you wouldn't be having this problem.

Also, I'm going to guess that the reason you don't have an estimate on your daily play time is because you don't actually have a regular daily play time. I'm also going to guess that's why they don't know their names, because if you really played with your rats hands on for just a couple hours each day for 10 months, you would have to call them by name and they would learn their names pretty quickly. I'm not judging you, just making an observation critical to fixing your problem.

You see, when my rats quarrel, I put my hand in between them, then I tell them to stop, and give each a tiny little bop on their head and remind them no fighting, then pick them up and hug them both together. I'm the alpha, and I said no fighting and that's the law. If I even hear the play getting agressive I can just shout from the other room "stop fighting" and there is peace. The peace between the rats is maintained by me because if they fight each other they are going to be quarreling with me and that's just not going to happen in my pack.

I know it's easy to see rats as simple creatures, but most psychology studies were done on rats. Brain and drug experiments are done on rats, because their brain is so similar to ours. Rats are metacognative just like we are and they need order in their society just like we do. The alpha is the big strong protector, he's the police officer, he's the best friend everyone in the pack wants to be with. Without you, your pack is in chaos and any little thing can upset the peace. Perhaps you are spending more time with your other animals now or your scared bully got jealous of the more timid one you handle more, but until you take charge you can't fix the problem.

You see, there are pets like snakes that really don't need human interaction, then there are pets like dogs and rats that absolutely need your constant involvement. But this is a two way street, by becoming your ratties best friend they will find peace and order and you will be rewarded by their love and loyalty. 

Take a few minutes and reconsider your understanding of just how smart and capable your rats are. Think about them as if they were dogs or children then give another look at the thread I mentioned above. I think you are still lucky your rats aren't really too badly screwed up yet, most likely you have been doing something right. Then get them out of their cages and start to work with them in the way I described.. all of them, first one at a time until they respect and obey you and they aren't afraid of you, then bring them all together and manage the reintroduction hands on. Once you are properly in charge they will all fall into line.

The best part of the deal is that you are going to wind up with real pets (like dogs) not just animals in a cage you get along with. Your rats will clamber at their cage for your attention and affection and you will look forward to coming home to play with your little friends.

Good luck


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## Ratata (Oct 23, 2012)

Rat Daddy said:


> First of all your english is excellent, and no worse than many native speakers typing in a hurry.
> 
> Second goes to pack order. Rats are social animals, and they are very smart. They absolutely can feel emotions like envy, jealousy, anger, sadness etc and act on them. And if a clear cut pack order isn't present things will get out of hand espceially when things change even a little.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your advice. Firstly, I don't think rats are stupid or anything else. I know they're highly intelligent creatures even they're so small. I admit that I do see rats almost as any other rodent because I have had those creatures for my whole life time. I haven't known that human can be so important in their pack. For example guinea pigs has their own hierarchy in their guinea pig pack and human isn't related to that even the piggies really likes to be loved by their owners. Naturally I have to change my view on things. 
I don't know did I wrote wrong or you just didn't understand but only the agressive one isn't 100% trusting me. The other two aren't scared of people or anything. So I guess I don't have to work with them with the trust and socializing thing. Is it okay if the rats see each other right now when the work isn't done yet? Do I have to move the agressive one some other place in my house or is it okay if he stays in the same room with others and sees and smells them all the time?


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Great! The first important thing has begin to change... it's your understanding of who your rats are. Now you are ready to make real progress.

Again to philososphy, your rat is smart he knows you have other rats, he can smell them from anywhere in your home and on your hands and he lived with them before, do you think you can fool him by moving him into another room? 

I think what you are calling not trusting is actually his not accepting your alpha pack leader status.

One very clear thing to me is that rats don't really understand the difference between humans and rats. At breakfast this morning my big fat shoulder rat dunked her head into my daughters cerial bowl and stole a frosted mini-wheat bisquit, then she refused to give it to me. She acted as if I were any other rat trying to take her food. No agression or anger, but she kept turning away from my hand until I gave up. Thats exactly how she would have responded to her roommate. When I play with my other rat and my play gets too agressive she eeps to tell me it's enough, just like she would tell another rat the same thing. When I cuddle with my big old girl my new girl comes running up to me and stands on her hind feet making the motion of being picked up so I understand what she wants. Then she'll climb down to my arms and steal some skritches my other rat would otherwise get. She was badly neglected by her former owners and insists on being part of any affection going on. She's not jealous, she doesn't push away my other rat, but she believes she's part of the pack and hugs should be group hugs.

From my rat's perspective, I'm just a really huge rat or they are really small humans. I get special treatment because I'm the alpha rat, not because I'm something different from them.

If I had to guess your piggies draw a distinction, they are piggies and you are human, they don't expect you to belong to their pack or behave properly.

Let me explain how the pack thing works.... Last summer we came across a pack of wild rats and my daughter who was 5 years old wanted another rat, so she started following one and calling it. As soon as she got really close another rat jumped out of the bushes and distracted her so she followed that one... then another and another and another. Knowing rats, they were not being agressive and were clearly playing with my daughter but still they were putting themselves at risk to protect their packmate. (Wild rats don't confuse humans with rats, although smelling like rats most likely helped us not frighten them away). With about 20 wild rats swarming us (small or female) and more popping out of the bushes by the minute and the rats getting more and more curious I decided to end the game before my daughter actually picked one up, which could have ended badly. To a rat, the pack is everything. My hillbilly friends used to go to the dump at night on their motorcycles to shoot rats with flashlights taped to their rifles, once the rats realized where the threat was coming from they would swarm after the kids with rifles, or so I was told, and chase them away. Rats will actually die to defend their families and packs. My parrot was being agressive and nipped me and my big rat ran out across the table and jumped up on me and went after the parrot on my shoulder to defend me. And she's bit the parrot before in self defense. 

Understanding how important pack order is to rats and that you are either a part of the pack or a threat is critical to socializing them. Your bad rat likely acts scared because he thinks of you as a threat, your other rats think of you as their leader, your group can only have one leader... 

Get the agressive rat out and straighten him out, show him caring and love and enforce dicipline if he acts agressive towards you. When you are finished he should behave friendly and submissive towards you, like the others.... then when you are in control bring everyone together around you and manage the meeting. If he tries to beat up another rat make it clear to him you disapprove. If he respects you, he will obey. And by the way your rats can learn to come to you and climb up on hand and lots of other tricks and behaviors on command... You should at least teach them their names. But you will have much more fun with them when they will follow commands.

Last comment... Many years ago I went to a fellow's house, he had a huge cage in his back yard that was made of chain link fence and was covered in fencing an had a cement floor. In the cage he had a snarling and barking German Shepherd that was constantly leaping against the fencing. I had a German Shepherd too, mine lived in my home and was a wonderful pet. Same animal, different philosophy of ownership and the difference was startling. Whether you wind up with a friendly lap dog or a nasty wild animal depends on you.


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## Ratata (Oct 23, 2012)

Rat Daddy said:


> Great! The first important thing has begin to change... it's your understanding of who your rats are. Now you are ready to make real progress.
> 
> Again to philososphy, your rat is smart he knows you have other rats, he can smell them from anywhere in your home and on your hands and he lived with them before, do you think you can fool him by moving him into another room?
> 
> ...


Thanks for all advices you have given to me. They mean alot. When I asked about the thing about to move the agressive one to another room, it wasn't about him to think that he's the only rat. I just thought if it's easier to them to switch their roles and behavior if they don't interact with the roles they have now before the agressive rat has been well socialized to me. And another idea that came into my head is that would that be helpful if I feed the agressive one by hand? Would that help him to see me as the pack leader because I control the eating and also seeing me nicer because I give him food. Naturally I already give him treats and he takes the from my hand and he likes to have them and because of that this idea jumped in to my mind.
And about the dog thing. I have seen those cases too. For example on my working place is a dog-wolf-mix who is kept in a cage outside and he's very angry to everyone because he hasn't been socialized. Wondering does those dogs really have a worth-of-living lives... Yes, my agressive rat is almost the same and I don't think his life is worth of living right now and that's why I really want to change things.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Lets try this again... Pretend you are a big boss alpha rat. You are very nice to your family and they love you, but this one boy comes in and starts pushing your family members around and doesn't respect you... what do you do??

1) you feed him treats by hand.

or

2) you take him and show him you are the boss by playing with him handling him, the way *you* want to and by teaching him his name and commands.

What does your agressive rat expect from his alpha?

1) someone he can bully around and or avoid when he wants to?

or

2) A friendly boss, who knows his name, sets limits, makes rules, maintains order, gives orders and shows him love and appreciation for his loyalty?

Imagine if you went to start a new job and no one would tell you who the boss is. What would you do? Who would you listen to? Who would you give orders to? Who is going to pay you? What time do you go to work and when should you go home?

If your agressive rat doesn't bite you, take him out and handle him, if he playfights, playfight back, when he's nice give him a treat, skritch and hug. Act like the boss and be the boss... You don't have to be mean or punishing but you do have to be assertive. If you come to work 3 hours late would you expect your boss to hand feed you or give you a raise to motivate you to come in sooner? But when you get your work done early and really well wouldn't it be nice if he lets you go home early or gives you a compliment and a bonus?

Psychology experiments are done on rats because they really think just like we do. Think about how he is acting, would you be acting any differently if you were him? What would it take for you to behave properly? 

Rats are smart, they are loving and caring, they need to belong to families they care for and groom each other, they respect authority, and they get afraid when they don't understand their world, and they get confused and neurotic when the world makes no sense to them. 

You hopefully chose rats because you wanted a pet that wasn't just a piggie or a hamster. Hopefully you wanted a friend, or friends. 

Unless you set up a colony of dozens of rats over a vast territory rats make very bad exhibit animals like snakes or spiders do. They do however make great friends and pets. 

Don't think about rat training as a matter of simple tricks you might try on a stupid animal... think about how you would make friends with a dog or a child. Sure food rewards work, but hugs actually work better.... And if the rattie doesn't understand what you want or what you are rewarding they are useless.

When I say their names and "good girl" my ratties come to me and lower their heads and expect to be petted. They may not wag their tails, but they look just like a happy puppy. 

Raise you expectations and your rats will do everything they can to live up to your expectations. 

I know your rats don't behave like mine do, my rats are shoulder rats and eat meals with us, go to the store, the park, and even the beach with us. They meet and greet lots of people and they play with children... But that's because I gave them the chance to evolve into what they are. That's how I treated my dogs, that's how I treat my rats and the outcome is the same. Rather than trying to hand feed you rats their dinner, bring them to yours and share a meal (use a plastic table cloth, it can get messy). Thats what I mean about changing your perspective and changing their behavior.

If your rats don't even know their own names... you haven't even begun to have pet rats.

Best luck


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

As to the dog in the cage, I suppose his life is barely worth living... but the same is more true of a rat in a cage. A rat only has two years to live his whole life, he sees his time being wasted much faster than a dogs.


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## Ratata (Oct 23, 2012)

Thanks. Nice to know your rats have such a wonderful life.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

You're most welcome... but something got lost in the translation...

What I meant to explain is that your rats can make your life better, or at least more fun and interesting, not just that mine have a great life. And by the way, being a 6 year old child's surrogate puppy is no easy life for a rat. Our big girl has survived long hot trips, poisoning by mushrooms, various injuries, heat exhaustion, falls and two roomates. But yes, compared to an indoor life, she has lived a lot and she has become a very best friend. And I would wish you and every rat owner a similar experience.


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