# Feeder Rats?



## Einstein (Jun 10, 2008)

Is there a difference between feeder rats at the pet store and just rats?


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

all feeder's or fancies are the same type of rat which are rattus norvegicus. A type of rat that was domesticated


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

Well, usually. "Feeder" rats are bred pretty much indiscriminantly, the more the better, they're usually not handled...if pet store rats have it bad, feeders have it worse.

But honestly, many rats sold as "pets" are treated just as badly. Often, the "pretty" colors are pulled from feeder litters and sold for more money as pets, even though they share the same genetics as the plain old PEW's.

Why do you ask?

EDIT: To avoid confusion, I'd better add that Mana and A1A are completely correct. If you mean, are they the same species, yes...as A1A said, they are all fancy rats, same species as the wild brown rat.


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## Mana (Apr 22, 2007)

None at all. There are pet stores who will even take rats from the same litter, and put the plain ones in the feeder tank and sell the "prettier" ones as pets.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

as for the many varieties we have... they are again, all the same rat because they are not distinguished by breed because they are already the same breed, just manipulated by selective breeding to maintain or enhance genetic mutations that present color, markings, fur type, lack of fur or ear placement.


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## Einstein (Jun 10, 2008)

I ask because a friend of mine (well the guy at my local petstore that I have gotten to know) has two rats that he rescued I guess you could say from being snake food. They look very young and he cannot keep them. He was going to sell them at his store but he offered them to me first. I know I would have to quarantine them before introducing them to my rat but do you think they will be ok? I am not looking for super rats just ones that need love.


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

Well, I got a baby hairless out of a feeder bin from a yucky little pet store last fall. I wasn't going to, but I just _couldn't_ leave him there.

When I got to the register, the lady informed me that since he was a hairless, he was a dollar more. I was laughing inside but kept a straight face and said something like, "I guess that's ok."

He has turned out to be one of the sweetest, most affectionate little rats I have ever had.

If you have the means and ability to quarantine properly, I say go for it. 

Do you only have 1 rat right now?


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

the personality differences
the overall health & temperament differences
behavioral differences
size differences

all of that can be determined & somewhat regulated & refined by those doing the breeding

How they do this is be line breeding & outcrossing... they only allow those they wish to promote to carry on their genetic material & those they remove those they do not wish to reproduce because they present undesired traits such as aggression, internal disorders such as that dreaded megacolon, heart disease or even wrong color or markings...

What happens with rats bred specifically as a source of food for another animal is they produce for volume. Often the longivity, personality or even health is not a first concern so the difference is quite clear.

If you take special care to produce pet quality rat you stand a better chance with those that are specifically & carefully bred with that in mind. When you select a pet rat from a source who's focus is not this... your chances can be reduced.

Many of us have these feeder bin rats & couldn't be happier or love them any more than if they had extensive pedigrees that went back multiple generations. Those of us who have both can confirm that we cherish every unique quality that each type offers us.


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

A1APassion said:


> the personality differences
> the overall health & temperament differences
> behavioral differences
> size differences
> ...


All very true...but how many petstores that sell "pet" rats actually breed with the discretion of a responsible breeder? :wink:


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## Einstein (Jun 10, 2008)

I only have one rat now. He is a 1 yr. old hairless that I got from the local pet shop. They had him there a long time and he was held every day. They even had him out by the register sometimes so he is very tame. The guy says these two are very young so I will have to keep them separate for awhile anyhow. I had two other rats lined up with a breeder but she lives a ways away and has not been able to meet me to get them. I know they would be the better choice but I think these guys might be ok. I need to start some quarantine process cause my rat has been alone for too long now as it is.


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## Mana (Apr 22, 2007)

My rat Kismet was a feeder. She was actually put in with a snake several times, but the snake wouldn't eat her. So she was given to me. She is absolutely the sweetest rat I have ever had. Always licking my hands, always wanting snuggles, and she's adventurous and her antics constantly keep me entertained.

I'd say if you have the means to take in those two little feeders and a way to quarantine them, there's no reason not to take them


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## Einstein (Jun 10, 2008)

Thank you guys! I will talk to them tomorrow and talk to mom about keeping them at her house until the three weeks is up...HA HA this should be fun! How big should I let them get before adding them in with mine? He is full grown and I do not want him to hurt them.


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

Mana, I think I remember reading about your Kismet on the forums some time back. What a happy ending...

Einstein...you've gotta get your rat a friend!!! LoL, that being said, you obviously know this and are working on it. Good job there.

And yes, I agree that getting rats from a breeder is the best choice. But if it's just not feasible, I would definitely consider the "feeders." And as you said, they're young, so you will probably have better luck.


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## ledzepgirl16 (Oct 29, 2007)

Einstein said:


> Thank you guys! I will talk to them tomorrow and talk to mom about keeping them at her house until the three weeks is up...HA HA this should be fun! How big should I let them get before adding them in with mine? He is full grown and I do not want him to hurt them.


I think it has more to do with the process of introduction rather than the size and age, although you're right to be cautious with an adult male and younger boys.

Check out the intros section on here, I've gotten some good advice from it.

I successfully intro'd a young male rat to an old male rat, but I didn't know any better (I was quite a bit younger than I am now  ) and just popped him right into the cage. Thank goodness they took to each other instantly. (LoL, do NOT do your intros like this!)


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## Einstein (Jun 10, 2008)

I read the blog about all that stuff. I guess the key is take it slow! Switch cages at first to smell, then rearrange the cage completely.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

ledzepgirl16 said:


> A1APassion said:
> 
> 
> > the personality differences
> ...



They don't, they can't because to breed for such exclusivity there is no money to be made & in fact you put a great deal of money in this type of exclusive breeding. Those rats that meets these exceptionally high standards are exceptionally rare & if this is the rat you seek, you might as well put your name in & stand in line for a very long time & plan to travel to the location where it is bred.

So in all reality you educate yourself. You learn about the joys & hardships of having this type of pet. That way you understand the great joy you can get from such a short lived little blessing. You prepare yourself for the possibility of those less than ideal experiences when you don't have a rat that doesn't have the select breeding advantages. You also come to realize that even those rats with select breeding advantages suffer the same disadvantages as those that come from the pot luck genetics of a polygamist breeding colony. After time you come to realize that those differences are really inconsequential because you come to realize that each day you have them is the day you focus on loving them because life my friend is lived one day at a time.

Don't get caught up in the frenzy of thinking you just gotta have that "perfectly bred rat" because that little guy over there for $3 can be just as rewarding.


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

With your boy being a hairless, you're going to have to be extra careful about closely monitoring the first few "play dates". Even a small scuffle could result in a serious scratch for a hairless since their skin is unprotected.


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## Einstein (Jun 10, 2008)

Yeah he already has a few little scratches from his just itching. I am hoping because they are younger he might have the advantage but trust me my husband will get rid of the new rats before they hurt our current one. That is his baby! I am just going to take it super slow since it is my first time and ask lots of questions!


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## JulesMichy (Apr 8, 2007)

Einstein said:


> Yeah he already has a few little scratches from his just itching. I am hoping because they are younger he might have the advantage but trust me my husband will get rid of the new rats before they hurt our current one. That is his baby! I am just going to take it super slow since it is my first time and ask lots of questions!


Keep in mind that these are males, and dominance struggles _will_ happen. It can look bad, but it's perfectly normal and natural and eventually their own little hierarchy will establish itself and things will work out fine. Don't chuck the new rats out the door as soon as you hear squeaking. No blood, no foul.


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## Nicodimus (Jun 23, 2008)

A rat from a feeder bin can end up being just wonderful a pet as one from a breeder (barring extreme circumstances) but you may have to invest more time and effort to get them to that point, as most feeder rats are not handled much and sometimes are kept in poor environments. 

My little goofballs came from a feeder tank that was really overcrowded, and it was pretty obvious right away that they were not used to being handled. The first night I had Bubble, it was pretty clear that he was scared of being handled. He pooped and peed all over me when I lifted him out of the tank, and just looked terrified. I gave him some free range time on the sofa (covered with an old sheet) and he just huddled in the corner and soiled that sheet really badly too. After spending a lot of time handling and feeding him the last few days, I brought him out tonight after I got home and I already see a big change. He lets me pick him up without a fuss, has no more potty issues, and ate some bread right in my lap before snuggling up to my belly for a nap. Bobble, who I brought home a day later, is definitely the more hyper of the two, but he is certainly getting more relaxed as well. I think them being so young was a major factor in the quick turnaround. That, and my secret weapon, Cheerios! XD Other feeder rats might require a lot more effort, though, depending on their background.


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## Einstein (Jun 10, 2008)

I think these are very young. I think they will be ok. However, we are very spoiled with einstein. He is older and had been handled all the time! He comes to you when you tap the ground and he likes me more than his toys! He is not a very quick rat and so we just kind of chill! I have a feeling these two will be a challenge but can turn out just as wonderful as he is in time. Thanks for the advice!


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

'Feeder' rats are just rats not concidered 'pretty enough' to sell with the pet rats. Either way you shouldn't buy from petstores, as it supports mass breeding of all the animals including puppies and kittens. I know it's hard to pass up a cute face (trust me, I've been there!) but you will feel so much better if you adopt from a pound or a local rat rescue. When you adopt froma rat rescue you will also (most of the time at least) get a rat that has been socialized and handled, and be more comfortable around people. 

Cinder, my black self is from a rescue (was born there after her pregnant mom and two aunts were dumped) and I couldn't ask for a more social and adjusted rat. She came home like that, where as with my other (petstore bought) girls socialization has taken more work.


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## Einstein (Jun 10, 2008)

The local pet store that we got our first rat at is not supporting this mass breeding you talk about. I can guarantee you that. they only have from two to three rats at a time and they get them when they are much older looking then the rats you see at petco or petsmart. Also just a tidbit but certain petsmarts only carry males and others only carry females. The told me they do this so they do not make any mistakes about what rat goes in what cage. I found that very responsible for a retail pet store. These feeders are ones that the guy at my petstore thought were just too cute to be food at a store he was at one day. He has too many rats of his own to keep them so he asked me if I would take them. If not he was going to care for them a little longer and maybe post signs up at his store to find a home. My local store does a lot of rehoming for people with all kinds of animals.


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## badashe (Jun 5, 2008)

I also rescued both of my rats from the feeder bin. BUT because they were soo young there has been no harm done to them. Most feeder rats will develop respiratory problems because theyre not taken care of properly, and of course wouldnt be socialized. They should be fine if theyre still young.


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## Einstein (Jun 10, 2008)

They are about the size of a full grown mouse. How old do you think that is? and holding them is like holding a slinky they just jump right out. Today is the first day we had them though and they are in quarantine at my moms so I only held them for a little bit today. They are super cute though one is definitely a berk ane the other is almost solid. He just has one little lighter grey spot on his chest that is almost impossible to see.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

I find most 'feeder bin' rats tend to be around three weeks old... or as soon as they can be taken from their mothers.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

size of a full grown mouse, yeah that's about 3-4 weeks old. you'll want to have them on a higher protein diet for another couple weeks. they are growing very fast right now and would need the extra nutrients. having them on some ensure and baby cereal right now would be good as well. again for their fast development. originally coming from a pet store they are not likely to have received proper nutrition either and you will want to try to make up for some of that. as a result of the poorer nutrition early on, it is likely these boys will not be as large as they could have been. but with you as their mom they should turn out fine. once they hit about 6-7 weeks you'll want to cut back on the extra protein so that by 8 weeks they are eating an adult protein level diet.


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## kellark71588 (May 28, 2008)

My baby was a feeder rat and its the sweetest rat I have ever had, Jade has not bitten anyone the whole time I have had her. She did have a tumor I had removed though


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## Einstein (Jun 10, 2008)

twitch said:


> size of a full grown mouse, yeah that's about 3-4 weeks old. you'll want to have them on a higher protein diet for another couple weeks. they are growing very fast right now and would need the extra nutrients. having them on some ensure and baby cereal right now would be good as well. again for their fast development. originally coming from a pet store they are not likely to have received proper nutrition either and you will want to try to make up for some of that. as a result of the poorer nutrition early on, it is likely these boys will not be as large as they could have been. but with you as their mom they should turn out fine. once they hit about 6-7 weeks you'll want to cut back on the extra protein so that by 8 weeks they are eating an adult protein level diet.


Thanks for the info! I will go tomorrow and get some different food for them.


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## cinderella (Sep 10, 2007)

I just wanted to add as well as pet rats I have reptiles and frequent many reptile forums. I have found that those people who breed feeders take great care in high quality feed and more proper care and breeding of their "feeder rats". As many breed for larger rats as well as larger healthy litters. Most wont let a female have more than three litters either wherein many who breed for pets let the mom keep breeding cause they are all about money, rather than health and before I get attacked they all preach about humane keeping


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Those breeders that breed indiscriminately for 'pets' are backyard/feeder breeders as well (without meaning to be, possibly). A good rat breeder breeds very carefully, but temperament is using what's being bred for, not size.


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