# Worried about my rats



## Sdaji (Oct 28, 2007)

Hi all,

my rats are acting differently from when I got them. I've had them for two or three weeks now. When I first got them I had them all in together (six of them) and they pretty much ignored me. When I took them out they were happy enough to sit on my hand, arm or shoulder, but they were indifferent to me.

There are now four in one tub and two in another. They aren't much different now when I take them out, I go near the tub with four in it they all run up and try to get to me, they're really frantic, I'm not sure if they love me or they want to kill me!  When I take them out they're still pretty much indifferent to me, but before the lid is taken off they're wildly climbing over each other to get as close to me as possible. I don't think they want to hurt me, none of them have ever tried to bite me.

The two which were put away from the others were sitting around looking very depressed for a couple of days at first, so I put them back with the others, they seemed a bit better but weren't fully accepted by the group and after another couple of days I put them in another tub again. That pair is pretty much indifferent to me altogether, although they run up to me and take cockroaches from me through the wire. The pair on their own still seem to be pretty sad, they just sit around, they don't run around any play like the others do  It seems I have one pair of depressed rats and two pairs of rats that just want to attack me until they get the chance, then they just ignore me 

What am I doing wrong? How do I make them all happy? How do I make them behave themselves?


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

i dont understand what you mean by tub? Not that it matters in regards to what youre asking...or it may, I dont know. but could you explain that to me? Sorry - just confused a bit


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

They are bored and unhappy. You are their only entertainment. Your cages are not entertaining and rats have creative intelligent minds.

You need to buy or make a proper wire cage with levels for them. If your cage is too small they will fight for space hence the ousting of the 2 of them. Was there any blood from fighting? If not I would make sure your "tubs" are big enough for all 6 and re-intro them. 

Be careful how many cockroaches you feed them, rats should not have too much protein, it can cause future health problems. Low fat, low protein is the way to go.

How often do they get out? What do you do when you let them out? If they don't get out at least an hour a day then they are just plain frantic to get out. They are indifferent to you because they do not see you as the Bringer of Good Things. 

Are you still planning on breeding them? If they aren't sociable now, you could end up with a lot of unsocialized babies


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## Sdaji (Oct 28, 2007)

DFW_Rat_Luvr: by 'tub' I mean 'cage'.

lilspaz68: The cages have two levels in them, the ones in the group of four seem very happy, they play with each other all the time, they seem very content. I've never seen any of them fight at all, certainly no blood! Yikes!  When they were all together they were all happy, when I took two out, the two on their own became depressed. When I put them back with the others, the original four were as happy as ever and the other two improved, but the time away seemed to make them a bit excluded from the rest of the group.

Everyone was telling me that I need to make sure they're getting enough protein! Especially the females if they're going to breed! Now you're saying low protein diet? Argh!

They get out two or three times each week, for a few minutes.

Breeding is up to them, they've been together for more that two weeks now (actually, they were all together before I got them). None look pregnant, maybe there is some missing trigger and the girls aren't going into heat. What can stop them from going into heat? Maybe they're just not old enough. I think they're now about 8-10 weeks old. They're fully grown.

They don't seem frantic to get out, they seem frantic to get to me. When I open the lid they don't want to run out of the tub.


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## cjshrader (Feb 15, 2007)

DFW_Rat_Luvr said:


> i dont understand what you mean by tub? Not that it matters in regards to what youre asking...or it may, I dont know. but could you explain that to me? Sorry - just confused a bit


By tub, I assume he means this image he posted in another thread:










He also said that he usually keeps 2-4 or so in a tub.

The answer is obvious, Sdaji. Your rats are ridiculously bored.

Edit: Can we please just stop responding to this guy? He is obviously not serious about rats as pets. He is a feeder breeder. He even has an image on photobucket of a snake eating a pinky! He breeds snakes as evidenced by multiple snake forums. We are wasting our time with him and I think he is only interested in riling us up.

Sdaji, if you take offense to this then prove me wrong. Buy a real cage for your rats and show us. But otherwise, it is near impossible to take you seriously.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

a few minutes a few times a week??? 8O 

Rats need a minimum of 1 hour a day out of their cage. How could they want you if you don't even hold them? They want OUT not you. You're just the bridge!

Protein once they are pregnant. High protein when their bodies don't need it can cause a protein allergy (scabs on their skin), issues with their organs, early deaths, etc.

8-10 weeks are still adolescents, no where near full grown.

Sorry cjshrader, this info is going up for all to read in the future.


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

cjshrader said:


> He also said that he usually keeps 2-4 or so in a tub.
> 
> The answer is obvious, Sdaji. Your rats are ridiculously bored.
> 
> ...


Amen. Do a little research, guys. Google "Sdaji" and see what comes up. Kinda silly to use the exact same user-name and avatar in every forum you are a member of...


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## cjshrader (Feb 15, 2007)

BlueSkyy said:


> Kinda silly to use the exact same user-name and avatar in every forum you are a member of...


Well I kinda do the same thing...  And worse than that, it's my real name I'm using so anyone can look up a ton of information on me with a quick google search.

But then again, I'm not really worried about people trying to sabotage my online life so I'm not too worried.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

cjshrader said:


> BlueSkyy said:
> 
> 
> > Kinda silly to use the exact same user-name and avatar in every forum you are a member of...
> ...


I use the same name everywhere and am somewhat known in the rat community. BUT we don't have anything to hide :evil:


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

lilspaz68 said:


> I use the same name everywhere and am somewhat known in the rat community. BUT we don't have anything to hide :evil:


true, there's no problem in it if you've got nothing to hide.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

I use the exact same name all over... why is it silly?

I have nothing to hide


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

it's very easy to trace you if you use the same alias for everything you are a member of. again, if you're an honest person who's not trying to hide anything it's fine, but it's very easy to find info about you.

for example, it was very easy to find out Sdaji's real name, his location, his gender, age/DOB, etc. and if i wanted to i could find his exact address by tracing his IP address. though i'm not a vindictive person so i see no point in doing so.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

ummm.... that is fairly obsessive on your part

remind me to steer a wide around you & not get on your bad side

<giggle>


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Well then...lets do the ol' copy and paste and let others know not to be fooled either (I have been so busy lately I haven't had time for the googling or keeping up with the posts)

From the same thread...these are mice

_.I'm reluctant to admit it, but I actually find the rats and mice to be pretty cute. Until recently I hadn't had any live rodents for around eight years, and I don't recall liking them back then. Being fond of them has been quite a shock! The one in the pictures is my favourite, I'm almost thinking about naming her ...what the heck, pick a name and it's hers!

How about names for this group? (not all require names, some have already been eaten 

OP - Err, the cute dark one with the white spot should be named after me.

You can call it Little B.

Okay, good thing I hadn't told him his name was Bert before it changed to Jethro Hopefully the rats without names won't get jealous of the happy couple.

I think Little B may currently be battling gastric fluids, Miss B! If not, I'm happy for it to carry the name, although I can't promise to remember it! 


When I say it is battling gastric fluids, I mean it is being digested in a snake's stomach I did feed some of that litter off, but some are now weaned and put aside for breeding. I clonked the grey adult in that picture and left one of the baby females in there, she was a black one..._


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

A1APassion said:


> ummm.... that is fairly obsessive on your part
> 
> remind me to steer a wide around you & not get on your bad side
> 
> <giggle>


it only took me about 15 minutes to do...not like i was losing sleep over it.

honestly, i wanted to see if i could sic PETA on him


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

He's a snake (or reptitle) breeder, not just a feeder breeder.

I actually did some sleuthing awhile back... First, you find that he's into reptiles, then you find out he's not only a well respected/known breeder in the world of reptiles, but runs his own forums for herp lovers. The mods were alerted (I assume not only by myself), I guess they were waiting for trouble to be caused.

The "act" he plays on here is definitely different than the one elsewhere. He comes off as quite educated there. I believe he's just getting his kicks, as other feeder breeders and snake lovers seem to get here at these forums. 

Sad, really. I don't understand why this happens so often at these forums.  It's like some sort of attack against the rat fancy community here... Let's go get the rat lovers riled up, haha! :roll: I couldn't find a post where he'd planned this out, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was one.

These are the same kind of people who friend my rescue on MySpace and then post the biggest photos of snakes eating rats they can find. :roll:


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

its up to the mods as to who stays & who goes

we as members just need to know what posts to contribute to & which ones to avoid altogether

Personally, I can't have a pet that I would feed another pet to but this doesn't mean I fault those who can... it is just a matter of a slightly different perspective. 

I have known & been friends with many people who have reptile pets that require feeders. Many started out using live but as they learned more about the care of their pets & a few found out the hard way that live food doesn't always sit back & let the reptile eat them, they switched to the humane pre-killed feeders. 

Now about these people who breed for either their own stock or do so as a business... people who breed feeder stock are not horrid people. They simply have a different perspective & a different view than those who faint at the thought of such things. Just like most cat & dog owners get squeamish when they hear about we freaky folks who live with rats .... on purpose! 

We can't fault people on being different. We can't condemn people because they live differently or think differently than others. That is a very dangerous mindset, bigotry in any fashion is very distasteful & extremely harmful to a society as a whole.

I have said it before & I'll say it again... I will pass no judgments on others because they may do things differently or think differently on subjects than I do however when someone enters an environment that is not compatible with their practices or thoughts then they should gracefully bow out. To remain & purposely cause drama is extremely asinine & that is what moderators are for.

So I'll close this how I opened it... its up to the mods to deal with members that "don't fit in". I see it often written by the mods... if you have an issue with a member or a post, inform them & they will deal with it.

Please don't debate this openly on the board because it only sets the tone for further negativity.

Sincerely,
The ALWAYS fair & impartial poster

Julia


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

I certainly wasn't saying anything about the business of feeder breeding. I am more concerned with coming to a rat fancy forum, and presenting you don't know anything when you do and posting things you know will upset people. Personally, that's a bigger offense to me. Especially because we've been the butt of the joke before at this forum, though I think that was before you came here? I'm no sure.

Feeder breeding itself, when done HUMANELY, is not something I will condemn. Of course all species have to eat. But there IS a right and wrong way to do it. Too many rats in too small of a "tub" with no stimulation, to me, is unfair to the rats, and it's not how those in the rat fancy want to see/hear. Just an example, since that's the topic of this post.

Again, what *I* am concerned about, and I would think others are, as well, is being lied to and deceived. This person knows more than he pretends to know here, and so one can only assume he's trying to make a joke of us. THAT, IMHO, is not something I want to be a part of. My love for rats isn't a joke.

I realize you may not have been posting directly to me (or you may have), but since my post was right before yours, I wanted to clarify.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

it wasn't a post to anyone directly... just an over all general kind of post


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

I tend to give people the benefit of doubt.

when this poster first came on I thought maybe, just maybe they were genuinely looking to improve upon their knowledge & standard handling practices

There have been more than a few people that found that their beloved pets food kinda grew on them thus having them convert to fuzzies (or at least a select few fuzzies) I thought maybe this was the case, maybe they had actually developed an interest in learning what is was to love & care for the very thing that was once view as kibble.

But as time has gone on it really seems that they have purposely & tactfully presented words & images to only get a rise out of people. 

C'est la vie


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## Phobie (Jun 3, 2007)

Wait so let me get this straight:

This guy is breeding rats as feeders, and just posting here as a joke?

Or have I just read wrong, I kind of skim-read a lot of this :/


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

only this person truly knows what they are here for... anything else is speculation


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## cjshrader (Feb 15, 2007)

I really was just here to say what KimmieKins said. My problem isn't that he's a feeder breeder. I wouldn't even mind if he bred for feeding and then also had separate rats he kept as pets. But my point is the rats he has are not pets, and he is only here to try to upset us.

I see no reason to call on the mods in this case. If we all just ignore him he will go away. The response we are giving right now is exactly what he wants (And most unfortunately, the response that I originally gave was what he wants), and by ignoring him he'd no longer be getting that.

And if he is serious about keeping rats as pets, then the first steps are easy. Get a real cage. Separate the males and the females. Stop picking them up by the tail. When he's shown that he's willing to take those first steps, then I'm willing to start giving him all the guidance he wants.


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

cjshrader said:


> I really was just here to say what KimmieKins said. My problem isn't that he's a feeder breeder. I wouldn't even mind if he bred for feeding and then also had separate rats he kept as pets. But my point is the rats he has are not pets, and he is only here to try to upset us.
> 
> I see no reason to call on the mods in this case. If we all just ignore him he will go away. The response we are giving right now is exactly what he wants (And most unfortunately, the response that I originally gave was what he wants), and by ignoring him he'd no longer be getting that.
> 
> And if he is serious about keeping rats as pets, then the first steps are easy. Get a real cage. Separate the males and the females. Stop picking them up by the tail. When he's shown that he's willing to take those first steps, then I'm willing to start giving him all the guidance he wants.


i pretty much agree with everything you've said so far CJ. if he was willing to listen to us, then we could help him, but he insists on forcing his rats to live on eggshells and keeping them in plastic tubs despite everything we've said.

hopefully he'll leave now that his "cover" has been blown.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i'm sorry but this has gone way off topic. so i have to lock it. if you have any concerns about anyone on this forum, bring it up with the mods. we will keep record of compliants and though we may not always be able to take immediate action you are not ignored.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

because there have been so many complaints about the op i would like to inform everyone that they have been marked a troll and have a permanent ban. we just needed him to post enough to prove it.


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