# Sneezing & Porphyrin.



## drussjdavi (Mar 24, 2011)

Hey there, 

As new rat owners we have been trying to find many accounts online about porphyrin and whether it is harmful to our rat or not. 
Some appear to judge it as a very serious case and we were wondering if anyone could advise us or tell us we do need to go to a vet. 
We'll appreciate all your help! 

Here are the facts:

1. Three accounts of the bleeding (porphyrin) from the nose, not the eyes. All about 8am as he is waking up.

2. Second and third times were accompanied by sneezing.

3. Doesn't seem to be off food or water.

4. Have had him for one week. His temprement is friendly however still a bit shy. Calm in the morning and very lively in the evenings.

5. He's 8 weeks old and shares his cage with his brother who is not showing any signs of stress or illness.

6. No signs of bleeding were shown before the cage was cleaned, could it be reaction to the Johnson's Clean & Safe product.

7. Haven't heard any sounds of wheezing.

8. We use shredded parcel paper for bedding.


I hope that covers everything.
Thank you everyone!


----------



## LoneOakRats (Mar 23, 2011)

Hi, congratulations on your new rat! I will try to answer your questions as best I can and I am sure others will chime in also.

1) Porphyrin discharge isn't bleeding at all--they are two totally different things. On the mornings when he woke up with the discharge from his nose, how much was there? Occasional porphyrin discharge usually isn't a huge cause for concern in itself but 3 times in one week does seem a bit excessive.

2) Did he wake up sneezing? Does he sneeze at other times during the day? If so, how often?

3) That is good that he appears to be eating and drinking well, make sure to keep a very close eye on that

4) He is still quite young so it isn't surprising that he is shy. May I ask where you got him from?

5) Thats great that he has his brother as a cagemate

6) How long was he in the age before it was cleaned?

7) You said there is no wheezing, do you hold him up to your ear and listen to his chest? Does he make any sounds at all when breathing?

8) Shredded paper should not aggravate his respiratory system but you might want to consider switching to a more absorbent litter in the future. What kind of cage are he and his brother in right now?


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Rats exude porphyrin, its up to us to figure out if its excessive or not for each rat. But if you said your boy had porphyrin when he woke up, but then he had a nice grooming session and it was gone. Was it gone for the rest of the day? This is normal. Sneezing when arriving at a new home is relatively normal as well as a rat has a sensitive respiratory system and they are adjusting. These sneezes should be rapid and dry sounding. When they start sounding wet or congested you have a URI and you need to take your little man to the vet. Do you have a rat vet right now? Finding a good one can be really difficult as a lot of vets say they will see rats but don't know much about them and offer some outlandish treatments.


----------



## drussjdavi (Mar 24, 2011)

Hello! Thank you both for your fast replies, we are both so happy someone can help us figure this out and check our boy is ok! The porphyrin is just in the morning and usually goes after he grooms. It does not come back for the rest of the day. And the sneezes are indeed rapid and dry which is good! We currently do not have a vet and I have tried to look for a suitable one on the internet in London, do you know any?

1) There is porphyrin discharge around the nose, not just on one particular side and there isn't much of it.

2) He seems to sneeze mainly in the morning. He has sneezed occasionally in the evening, but quite rarely.


4) From a breeder from the NFRS. His shyness seems to be going by the day and he now seems very enthusiastic about coming out of the cage to play in the evenings. Even managed some pea fishing last night.


6) How long was he in the cage before it was cleaned? 5 days

7) No obvious sounds about the breathing, although we will now monitor this more closely.

8) Shredded paper should not aggravate his respiratory system but you might want to consider switching to a more absorbent litter in the future. What kind of cage are he and his brother in right now?

It's a wire cage with metal base. The absorbency of parcel paper isn't something I'd considered. It isn't a very absorbant material and I have read that sometimes Porphyrin can be brought on from ammonia. Still, if that was the case wouldn't it be causing porphyrin discharge in his brother too? 



Once again, thank you both so much! This forum has already been so helpful in learning about porphyrin already!


----------



## drussjdavi (Mar 24, 2011)

Hi, sorry to post again about this so soon but I've been studying him quite closely tonight and thought I would share the information to see if anyone can help determine if there is in fact something wrong. Once home from work this evening both him and his brother were out of the cage and playing as usual. Both were very active and he wasn't showing any signs of lethargy. He took a few treats from my hand and I watched him eat, drink and groom to make sure all that was still happening. However I was able to listen to his breathing and did notice some more sneezing. As I am new to keeping rats it's hard to tell if the noises I am hearing are expected or a sign of something to worry about. Amongst the generally noises of sniffing (which I assume is a result of his curiosity) I did notice a sound which sounded like quite a quiet squeak which sounded like it was coming from his nose. This happened for a while accompanied by a few more sneezes.
Sorry to post such a heavy load of information but I'm really hoping someone might shed some light on this. I'm sure you'll appreciate how worrying this stuff can seem to a new rat owner.
Thanks.


----------

