# Heavily pregnant baby I picked up today.



## Poisoned

Well, I don't have many questions, I just wanted to post a thread to keep track of her and her pregnancy, and litter. She has the sniffles, but is otherwise bright-eyed and active. 

I'm also open to name suggestions. She was due to be a live feeder (pregnant and all). She is timid, but she sniffed me and showed interest after calming down some, and she has been asleep since I brought her home hours ago. 

She needs a good name, do suggest some! 
Sorry for the pics, I used my phone so she wouldn't be frightened.


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## Camelle

aww :,( that's horrible!!! She's beautiful and just absolutely adorable! I hope her pregnancy goes very well!! Good luck! c:


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## Kaliloca

She's a beautiful girl. 
I'm glad to see she made it out of the feeder bin and into a good home. It's a lot of work to care for a pregnant rat and find homes for the babies, but it's worth it. She looks like she'll make a great pet. 

As for names..... Get to know her and her personality. The name will come to you. She'll do something that brings a name to mind and it will fit her perfectly.


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## Poisoned

That's how it usually goes with the names, but I do love to hear suggestions. 

She seems very sweet.. she must be very untrusting of people due to how she was kept. I don't know how many litters she's had that have been taken away. And still she didn't even try to nip at all, just sniffed, and then waddled off to go sleep.


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## Flora

Oh wow! She looks like she is going to pop any day! I am glad you were able to rescue her. Cant wait to see the babies!!


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## Rumy91989

She's gorgeous! I don't have any name suggestions off the top of my head, but definitely pick something to reflect how beautiful and sweet she is! I love agoutis... she looks like my Luna. I'm so blessed to have never experienced an accidental pregnancy despite the various places my babies have come from, but I know she'll be in good hands with you. Keep us updated!


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## Poisoned

I keep thinking of L names. like Lady. I want something that says "I am a beautiful living being too!". Because she has been treated like a disposable object. 
I got better pictures of her.


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## LightningWolf

She is beautiful, no idea how she would end up in feeder bin in the first place, especially since she is pregnant. seems odd.

Lady fits her, I'm not good with L names. only one rat with an L name (Liam) and I didn't come up with it, my mom did. you could try Lilly or Lotus?

Looks like she's going to pop soon though. Are you planning on keeping any of the babies?


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## Poisoned

I was talking to a pet store owner who sometimes has rats for adoption, and the way he made it seem was that he had a female 'in the back', (and also a few young boys) I could come pick up when I told him I was looking for a preggo momma who needed to be adopted (I was told she was 'nippy and shy', which is why she wouldn't make a good pet herself apparently), just in case my hairless was pregnant and couldn't feed them.

What I saw there, in the back room, and the other areas.. was just really bad. I'm reporting them to everyone that I can. I was a polite as I could possibly be while I was in there so I could get out without the employee thinking I was going to go on a reporting spree. But once I had her out in the car I just cried. My brother, who does not like rats, went with me and said he felt like he was in some other land in that place. Every female in the rat racks were pregnant, or nursing, or both. He picked up a PEW, very tilty, girl, who was more pregnant than this and tossed her by the tail in front of me.

*Edit
I may or may not. If the hairless female isn't pregnant, then I certainly will keep some, I may even if she is as well. But I'll take care of them all like my own until I find a suitable owner for everyone. It's going to be busy here soon.


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## FallDeere

That's so horrible. >.<

She's gorgeous, though! Reminds me of my new agouti dumbo girl! (who I am praying is not pregnant...)

I agree, Lady fits her.  She looks like a dignified little Lady, to me. 

Best of luck with her, the hairless, and all the babies! They're very lucky to have you to take care of them. ^_^


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## LightningWolf

Good luck as well. Once again need to remind myself I Don't need more rats, especially agoutis (and if there are blacks, I have enough black rats)

Boy that is terrible, even most feeder breeders (at least on the snake forums I'm on) know not to grab them by their tails (and to give them breaks between litters).


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## Poisoned

These people have no respect for them at all. They put the pups in the plastic bags like they do crickets, they put one PEW baby boy who's eyes were almost open in one and he flew all over the bag while they spun it shut while I was there. 

There were so many rats in the back.. I've never seen so many pregnant rats in my life. 
I've also never seen a breeder treat their rats so bad. As you'v said, even most feeder breeders give them very basic care and treat them with some kind of respect. The petco people who sell feeders at least handle them gently and are kind to them before handing them over (in a well-ventilated box). 

They had a huge array of colors, so there is no telling what could come from her. They had several different blues, beige fawn, black self/berk, and other colors that I can't ID. And of course dumbos mixed in, like her.


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## Poisoned

But.. thankfully that is behind her. And neither she or her babies will ever have to live like that again, and she can give birth without being trampled by other rats. And hopefully, having seen the behind-the-scenes horrors, I can make a difference for the others there. 


Anyone want to guess how many? I'm going to say 15.


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## LightningWolf

from what I've seen bigger bellies mean smaller litters but bigger pups. so I'm going to say 10.

But yeah, that is terrible. There was a similar story (much worse though) on one of the snake forums. Good thing you reported them, that's just terrible. poor pew boy


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## Poisoned

Her water appears to have broken when I checked on her just now. Keep your fingers crossed that everything goes smoothly. I just hope she or the pups weren't injured by the employees rough handling.


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## Kaliloca

She's got a nice size belly. I'm going to say 12 babies. 

I'm glad you reported that place. Hopefully, they'll be put of of the rat breeding business. BTW in some states/cities/counties it's illegal for a Pet Shop or any business to "breed animals" on site. So, it could be that Pet Shop is breaking the law just by breeding. Obviously, he's breaking the law by the way the animals are being treated. If you can, give updates on what happens with that shop.


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## LightningWolf

Oh well, in that case it's very lucky you got her today then. Make sure to let us know how it goes.


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## mistymornings18

Any updates labor started?


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## JLSaufl

I just want to snuggle her, she's absolutely beautiful. Whenever I see these posts, I'm just thankful I don't live near any of 'you people with the cute baby ratties' 

Best wishes that everything goes smoothly.


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## iHayleyNorris

What about the name Hera? She is the Greek goddess of women, women fertility, and childbirth? 


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## Poisoned

I've just been calling her Lady.

No babies! But she seems fine, she's doing a lot of digging and moving stuff around this morning. I've heard they can give birth up to 24hrs after water breaking/spotting.


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## Poisoned

I just checked on her again. She really isn't a timid rat, she is a little hand shy - I can imagine, spending your life being tossed/hurt every time a hand comes in.

Maybe the spotting and discharge was from the way he handled her. Yanked her up by the tail and tossed her in a box before I could reach in and pick her up.

She has a hearty appetite today, or maybe she's never had such good food. Living off of stale lab blocks (and having to work very hard to eat it through wire) must not be very fun. She got some baked chicken, pea baby food, fresh fruit and a bit of ensure because she was pretty lethargic. She doesn't leave a bit of food. 
Here is a picture of how they are fed - this isn't THE place she was at, but this is how they are set up. Its so lazy on the humans part. And the rats work SO hard to get a bite because the food moves when they touch it. 
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4pw50I56kAY/TJ7kWCpTsII/AAAAAAAAADI/JCnVrzKnhYw/s1600/DSCF5933.JPG


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## mistymornings18

I don't see a pic 


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## Rumy91989

The pic is in the link.

That's terrible! They don't even put the food in the cage?  You said you reported them, right? Do you know if anything's come of that?


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## JLSaufl

Sadly, I think it's pretty standard to feed 'feeder' rats this way. Both of the reptile stores near my house feed that way. It's completely heartbreaking how the animals are treated...and really to them, if they die, they're still sell-able as food so why bother taking great care of them. Super sad.


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## LightningWolf

That way of feeding is common in both feeders and labs. Most of the time it's low enough so the rats don't have to actually put their heads up all the way to grab the food (and the wire spacing is big enough to easily pull it out, it's just like giving rats food through the bars). They don't do it to be cruel, they do it keep their cages clean and to keep the food from spoiling. (Face it, rats always store their food in their litter boxes, at least my boys do) so they don't get sick. It's really no different then using a water bottle instead of a water bowl (Sorry had to add my 2 cents)

I think the issue is that the store was probably using dog food or very low quality lab blocks. Both of which from feeder breeders has been shown to be very bad for rats (most only use Mazuri or Harlan) so that might be why she is wanting to eat a lot (and she's pregnant, and if they were using a low quality lab block or dog food she might not have been getting enough nutrients for her babies)


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## Poisoned

They looked like lab blocks, but yeah, they were up high enough the younger rats were having to stand all the way up to reach it. And by the smell of her poos yesterday and the way SHE smelled (it funked up the whole truck and my dining room), I'd say it's not very good quality. It was like dog poop smell and her stools were very loose.

I know it's common practice to keep the cages cleaner, but y'think they could at least make it easier. I know they have feeder boxes like what people put suet in for squirrels, so they dont' have to strain to get a little piece. But I know that is the least of their worries, they don't care. 

Well, I've been told 'they will investigate this matter further'. I suppose that means a city worker will walk through? 
I'm going to contact the local SPCA as well. And some small-animal rescues, including chinchilla rescue so they can go check out how the chins there are being kept. And bird rescue, their birds are in rough shape.


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## mistymornings18

I see it now. Pet guide free app on my iPhone wasn't showing there was a link there so I was confused. I signed into the laptop and there it was


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## Poisoned

She started giving birth around midnight. As of 8am, we have (I want to say) just under 20 happy, squeaky, full babies. I didn't handle anyone or get pictures because momma is nervous.


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## katlovesaandw

WOW, around 20! Congrats!


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## Poisoned

No good pics of the whole litter, momma is very protective. I did remove the nasty nesting material when she wasn't looking and put some fresh stuff in there for her to work with.


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## Ratfinx

Oh my god they are gorgeous! 


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## Poisoned

I can't wait to see what colors they are. 
There really were not many PEWs where she was. There were fawns/beige with pink/ruby eyes. 

They are very loud and active little ones. And she is a very attentive momma. I'm sure she's had a litter(or more) before.


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## mistymornings18

They're adorable!!! Good job lady 


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## Rumy91989

Awww, look at the little eepers! It does look like a few will have pink eyes! Excited to see how they develop!


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## JLSaufl

Little lovelies...and I love the picture with her looking at you. I know she was probably terrified, but it's such a sweet "get away from my babies" look. Congrats.


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## katlovesaandw

Awwwww! Love those pics! Watching them grow and develop into little ratties is such fun!


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## LightningWolf

You have albinos/Ruby eyed rats. even at one day old you can easily see their eye colors. I see some that have light/pink eyes. you definally from what I'm seeing have 2 albino/ruby eyed.

Albino is a recessive gene, so she could carry it along with any other rat. It's actually a very commonly carried gene among rats.

Anyways, glad everything is going ok


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## Kaliloca

Congratulations!! 

They're so precious. It looks like Lady is feeding them very well too.  

I'm really glad you got her. It would be sad to think what would have happened with her and her babies if you hadn't.


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## Mousey

Aww look at those milk bands. Nice full bellies


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## Poisoned

I really want to check them all out and make sure everyone has eaten, weigh them, check genders and see that everyone looks fine, but momma really doesn't want me to.


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## phatdaddy

my big agouti ace has had 2 litters in her life and never lets me touch them until they hit about a week old. also, my girl has become increasingly less skittish after her litters.


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## katlovesaandw

We checked ours on day 2, but had to trick Mama out with one of her fav crackers and then lock her in a small cage. She was VERY protective of them until eyes opened at 12-14 days. Then she was more than happy for us to take them out to give her a break!LOL


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## Poisoned

I got her to come out using some ensure/baby food mix, and checked them out a bit, didn't handle them really, just moved them to count those hiding, and I am pretty sure there are 18. BUT they squirmed so much and are so small I'm not positive.

Everyone has a big full belly. Including Lady, she's pretty chunky actually. I'll just peek in once a day to make sure they're all fed until they're a bit older or she's more comfortable.


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## katlovesaandw

Good! We checked at Day 2 to count. We then did it every other day, to make sure all were fed and had milk bands. Then at about a week they were handled a lot more. We wanted babies that were highly adoptable and used to people!


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## Poisoned

Yep. These little ones will be handled as often as I can, and other people in the home and at my parents house, and exposed to cats/dogs as well. 
And their adopters are definitely going to be questioned, and agree to my terms. No way will I let these little ones end up living anything but a great life after what they narrowly escaped.


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## LightningWolf

18? Wow, looks like she came from a good line (for feeder breeders, they select for rats that produce larger litters without losing a lot of weight/condition. don't want unhealthy mamas). 

Please tell me your no where near Texas?


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## Poisoned

No, unfortunately! I'm in Virginia. 
The closest to Austin I could manage to get a rat would be nearly 400 miles away still. 
You're safe. lol


Well, she is certainly in good body condition.


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## Poisoned




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## Jokerfest

I don't blame her for being protective there's no telling how many babies she's had snatched from her before you got her. 
You're in Virginia?
Do you ever come to or close to NC?
I'd love to take in a boy or two... 
Message me if you think we could work something out and I can send you pictures and info on my boys and their cage? 
Momma and babies are so adorable and she's so lucky you took her in.


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## Poisoned

I'm in Hampton Roads, VA, which is pretty close to the NC line. Where in NC are you? I may go to Avon within the next couple of months, but that's it unfortunately. I cannot drive due to a problem with my eyes, and I don't know anyone willing to drive more than a couple of miles for me. Much less for my rats. LOL

Yeah.. When the guy was showing me another momma with her newborns, he like quickly batted her off of the babies, scattering them and terrifying her. So I can imagine what she's been through. 

I could be wrong, but I think I see some dumbo ears in there. I hope so, mainly because I don't think anything is as cute as a dumbo baby.


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## Jokerfest

I'm in goldsboro NC. We're 180+ miles apart unfortunately. 
I don't drive ether and while I could get a ride I couldn't really convince someone to go that far.

Poor mommas I hope something is done about that place it sounds just awful.
I mean atleast treat your stock with the basic respect that any creature deserves.

Dumbos are adorable I hope you do get a few.


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## Poisoned

Darn! I'd love for some people on the forum to get some of them. 
If you're ever this way, or think you will be, I've got no problem hanging on to any of the little ones. 

Sucks, I have a lady in MI who'd love them, and I'd definitely trust her with them, and she's on the other side of the US! lol Of course.


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## Rumy91989

Have you considered organizing a "Rattie Train" transport to get the babies to people you trust who want them? You've got 18 in this litter and a potential other litter on the way, so that's 20+ babies to find homes for. I live in TN and I'd be happy to be a halfway house to help get the babies to owners.


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## Jokerfest

Well if anyone were willing to meet me half way I could for sure pick up a few boys. I just don't know of many people in NC or Virginia on here or in general lol.
I'm going to look up pet taxi services though, Rumy your post reminded me that people do this sorta thing and that there are actual companies dedicated to this.


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## Poisoned

Maybe - It depends on how long I have them. Since I have a friend who is supposed to come here from OK, passing through TN and stopping in Nashville actually to see family I think, and doing the same on the way back, she might be willing to transport if there were homes that way. 

But I will keep them as long as needed. I like local homes mostly, because if they ever have to rehome them they come back to me. But if I had a way to get them to good homes elsewhere I'd be fine with it.


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## Rumy91989

Well keep me posted. I'm in Nashville and I do travel to northern Indiana and to Chicago to visit family relatively often, so anyone on that path could be easy for me to transport to. I understand your desire to keep it local, though.


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## mistymornings18

they're beautiful babies and lady is absolutely gorgeous as well


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## LightningWolf

If you have a friend from OK that's willing to transport them I can probably get some people from Texas to take some (I know some people on here from the Dallas area). Even if we did that I can't guarantee I can take any, we have a mini mite outbreak right now with my boys  

and we have a bunch of other stuff going on, so no more ratties probably till Summer or next winter. Though I'm sure people on here even from other states if they ever had to re-home they would find a way to get them back to you. (At least I would and I assume others have the same mind set).

Anyways glad everyone is going ok


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## Eden10

Gorgeous mama & beautiful babies...back to how the ratties were fed, I noticed this is how they feed the majority of the ratties at my new job...had never realized how the system worked til you posted your link! Really wish I could do something...but its hard being my new job & I'm not even assigned for the care of the rodents.
Ugh...so sad...but I guess they are treated no different to how animals on factory farms are treated...all about producing more for less money...=/
Anyway, am so glad this mama is safe & never has to worry about ever getting pregnant again & can enjoy a peaceful life with you


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## Poisoned

She lost two of them, the count is sixteen now, one just was not growing, the other I think was stepped on or maybe squeezed too hard and was having problems, she 'cleaned up' by eating them I assume, because they are nowhere to be seen. Boy she makes a messy nest! 

The hooded one in the duo picture is very spunky already.


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## katlovesaandw

Awwwww! So cute!
Ours did that. We had 12 on Day 2. Day 3...we had 11 and despite searching the entire cage, it was missing. She disposed of it completely. YUCKO but that is Mother Nature.


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## Poisoned

Yeah, I see the blood on the bedding so I assume that's where they went. But hey.. at least they aren't going to waste, they're helping feed their brothers and sisters.

Still really gross. BLECH


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## katlovesaandw

Yep, I chose not to think about it. YUCK! I understand it, just do not agree with it!LOL And when I think about it, it makes me sad and grossed out!LOL


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## JLSaufl

How's mom doing? Is she relaxing a bit or still super frightened? 

Love the little eepers. So cute.


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## Poisoned

She is very quick to go and cover her babies if she thinks I'm going to touch them. But she came out and started dozing off while I was sitting next to the enclosure. I'm sure she will calm right down when they are weaned, she seems to worry over them a lot.
I've offered her my sleeve (which obviously smells like me) when she's defending them, and all she does is sniff it and turn her head. 
My last female would try to attack anything that came close to her when she had babies, so I was expecting that with this one, ever had experience with friendly mother! lol
Thankfully none of her babies inherited that aggression.


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## KelseyShea

Oh my. Just read this whole thread and I'm in Hampton Roads, VA too! I have four already and my husband would kill me if we got more.... but... the cuteness!!!!! ;D Congrats on a healthy litter.


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## Poisoned

I understand Kelsey. lol
My brother (also roommate) took one look at her balloon self at the pet store and said "OH, H**** NO!", he thinks I already have too many. But he felt just as bad about what is going on there. 

Well, I have homes lines up for at least four girls. Hopefully there are more than four.. I planned on keeping one girl. If not, I'm sure I can get one lady to take boys instead, she has no other rats.


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## KelseyShea

That's good, I hope you get more homes lined up. I will ask friends that live in the area. I think I've made a few "converts" over to the rat side.


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## Flora

I am in Hampton Roads too!!!


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## Poisoned

You want some fluffy little babies, don't you Flora? 

They all were fat and happy late last night, and the momma had calmed down. My past experiences with momma rats have me very wary, but when she ran at my hand I held still and she snuffled all over it, took a piece of food, and took off. I think she really is as sweet as she looks.


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## Flora

I would however I am picking up 2 babies next week from someone else on this forum in VA Beach. I wish I would have known or I would have taken 1 from you and 1 from her. I am pretty sure she has homes lined up for all of hers so I will ask her if she had anymore people intresed. I don't see her on here much, just the pregnancy post. 

http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?54229-11-babies...need-some-advice


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## Poisoned

Aww I saw those little ones too. I actually thought about asking about them, because I was going to adopt a male from someone to keep my boy Ben company, but then I found Lady.

They are getting fur today, not much, not enough to tell their colors. I know the one with a pretty hood is a female, and a light eyed one is a female. They are strong little guys! I want to get them all sexed but it makes Lady upset.


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## Rumy91989

Have you had Lady out to play? The best time to handle babies to check on them and sex them is when momma is out of the next and doing her own thing.


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## Poisoned

She doesn't seem to want to - I leave it open with easy access to come out while I'm around and she checks it out, and goes back to snuggle with the babies. I'm sure she will be begging to come out soon. Right now she's just too attached to them. She IS spending more time out of the box she chose to nest in, but she doesnt' go far.


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## Rumy91989

Are you against picking her up? As she's new I would suggest handling anyway, but I'm not sure how much stress that would put on her or how it would affect her willingness to feed the little ones... I've never had a pregnant female or a litter, etc, so I trust your judgement on that. I just think it'd be great if you could have a chance to handle the babies this early on, etc. But again, as you are far more experienced, it's totally your call! I'm just trying to vicariously live through you (especially since your Lady is a dead ringer for my Luna).


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## Poisoned

Well, I've been letting her come sniff me if she likes.. I'm in no rush with her, I've got her forever. She let me take them out earlier, 8 boys, 8 girls.

Girlies:









Boys:


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## Rumy91989

AW! SO CUTE! MY GOODNESS!!! I really wish Nashville was closer to you...


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## Poisoned

I haven't decided on whether or not to keep a girl. It will depend on how the adoptions go, if I end up with one female left over.. I will probably keep her.
But I am keeping two boys. Deciding who is probably not going to be easy.


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## katlovesaandw

So freaking CUTE!!!!


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## Kaliloca

They're extremely cute.  I'm surprised at the variation in colors/patterns. 

Are some of them going to be Dumbo rats? Their ears just look like they're very far down on the side of their heads.


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## Poisoned

I hope so - but I'm not sure. I tried using an online comparison but I figured I'll find out for sure in a week or so when those ears develop.

I'm not sure what colors I have going on. I just noticed the light ones have VERY light patches on their tails, and I don't know if that means anything at all, but I was thinking maybe it meant they weren't PEWs.


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## Poisoned

Lady is so good! She's letting me handle them, she runs over to check on them and make sure they're okay in my hands, but just wanders off again. She is scared to be picked up against her will, so after they're weaned and all herself again, I will do some trust training with her. But she's obviously got the foundation of being a great girl.


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## LightningWolf

That's great

they might end up being Fawn or Beige, but typically if I say Albino they turn out to be Fawn/Beige and if I say Fawn/Beige they turn out Albino. So I'm not going to jinx it.


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## JLSaufl

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the girly with the dark 'hood' that goes all the way to her hinder...what a bunch of cutie pies. I wish I was close, I'd snatch her up in a heartbeat.


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## Poisoned

She is so stinking cute. I love her! If the others aren't beige (first pick from a new owner) she will be going to a lady who emailed me and sounds great.


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## Ruka

Adorable! So glad you saved Lady!


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## Muttlycrew

Haha looks about like a clone of the litter I have! They're all super adorable!


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## Poisoned

Definitely not PEWs, the light babies have markings on their skin today. No telling what colors they are, though..


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## Muttlycrew

Oh really?! Cute! We'll need pics ;-) 


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## Ruka

:yes, photos!!


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## Poisoned

Oh I know. I can't wait for their fur to come in. SO many baby pictures will be taken. lol I'll try to get some showing their colors tonight while momma is eating her nighttime snack, but it might not come out well. 

I'm going to have a very hard time deciding who to keep. I'm doing my best to say ONLY two boys.. I don't want a bunch around the same age because I hate losing them all one after another.. but what's one more? And I so want to keep girl. GAH!


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## Muttlycrew

Lol! You're gonna end up keeping the whole litter if you let yourself! What day were yours born? Mine seem about the same age. I'm keeping the one I'm hand raising for sure, but then there is another that is kind of deformed (has an odd bone structure) that I had to take in this morning, so I'll be hand raising that one too, so I just don't know who all I will end up with.. Haha. It's a difficult decision for sure!! 

If you get free time... We could definitely go for pics today, too! Lol! 


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## Poisoned

25th - but I have a weird feeling that they were born late. Because they are a bit more developed than most I've seen with online comparisons.

I saw that little one with the odd structure. Boy I hope he grows out of it. 

I'll try to get you guys a couple.


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## Muttlycrew

Oh, mine were born on the 20th. I'd have to see new pics but from what I've seen they look right on track  good round squiggly little things! Congrats on a healthy litter for sure! 


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## Poisoned

I got a few pictures, I just can't capture the colors on the light ones, but it's there!
The camera died or I would have gotten some individual shots.

































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## Flora

Babies!!!!! I love them! Oh I see a fawn hooded in there! I love them all. If you end up with a blue girl I am going to have to snatch her since your so close.


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## Muttlycrew

Awwwww!!! So cute! 


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## Eden10

Adorable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Poisoned

If one shows up, you're more than welcome, Flora. There were blues of various types there, so no telling what is in Lady or the unknown sires' backgrounds.


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## LightningWolf

Aw.

Let's see, I see 2 fawn hoodeds, a Fawn berkshire, and looks like there is an Albino. Or he could be a beige or blue hooded.


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## Poisoned

One of the boys has a hood/saddle that are dark, it's obvious without the flash.. Maybe I can get a picture to show it tonight. 
I'm probably keeping one of the two light boys, I've had they out a bit today and they are so feisty! The smaller of the two is very strong, nearly able to walk, but his legs want to do their own thing. lol


----------



## Poisoned

Agouti and fawn/beige boys this morning. 

















Girls, unsure of the color on the hooded one.


----------



## Muttlycrew

I want one. Lol! 
They're so cute!!!! 


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## Rumy91989

Aww the fuzzies!!! Sooo cute!!!


----------



## HelloClarice

Sooooo cute!


----------



## LightningWolf

Color on the girl looks beige.  they are super adorable


----------



## Poisoned

The one on the right? 

I have terrible eyesight.


----------



## Poisoned

Just got some new pics of the babies - they change so fast!

















































And this little girl is such a dollbaby.


----------



## Rumy91989

AHH CAN I HAVE HER??? They are all sooooooooooooooooooooo cute!!!


----------



## Poisoned

I wish I could get her to you! 
They're just as irresistible in person.


----------



## Rumy91989

I'm seriously tempted to start planning to make the drive. I see babies on here all the time, so maybe it's just the way you photograph, but it really is stoking my "I WANT" side


----------



## Poisoned

I do try to catch the 'cute' pictures, so that could be it. lol! 

I'm still not sure what colors she is. You can see her hood in the pictures where she's with the group, otherwise she looks solid. Very stinking cute nevertheless.


----------



## LightningWolf

Yes girl to the right. Also the girl on the last picture is a Beige.


----------



## Poisoned

Cool, thank you. 
I've only ever had the chance to raise PEWs and blacks, so I didn't have a clue what I was looking at as far as colors go.


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## Poisoned

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(My fawn boy wouldn't get out of my sleeve)


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## Muttlycrew

Oh my goodness, I'm so jealous! Lol!!! I love all of the different colors! Just beautiful little babies! 


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## Rumy91989

AH THE GIRL WITH THE SUPER LIGHT HOOD IS STILL CALLING TO ME!!! Great pics! That is one freaking adorable little litter you've got there.  Congrats!


----------



## JLSaufl

They are so cute. I wish I could play with handfuls of babies every day.  lol


----------



## Poisoned

This little girl is so pretty!


----------



## katlovesaandw

You have some beautifully marked ones! I love the BLACK one and the dark tanish one and the hooded ones. We didnt get hooded in our batch.....we were hoping to have one, but nope. Too bad you live so far away....I might be tempted!


----------



## Poisoned

And here, I'm not fond of hoodies. And I get a ton of them. Irony at it's best!


----------



## katlovesaandw

HAHA! There were none in the batch when we picked out Mama! She is a grey rex. Then when we had the babies....we thought 1 was hooded as it had a dark stripe,etc. and darker head. Then when coat actually grew in....NOPE. We got 7 greys, 2 whites, 2 beiges with varied coats from smooth to rex to double rex. Only 1 beige has a white stripe down her nose, which is why she is named Blaze and she is one of the double rex's and rarely has hair!LOL

Oh and one of our smooth grey girls ended up with a white tummy.....so luckily we can tell her and her identical sister apart when we flip them over!LOL Look from above...they are same size, coloring, ear size, etc.

Irony-agreed!!


----------



## Poisoned

Ah! I love rexes. Not crazy about Drexs. I'd trade a few with you! lol

Do you have a thread/pics of your litter? They sound adorable. Rex babies are the best.


----------



## katlovesaandw

I have pics. Let me try to find them and post some. The 4 in my avatar are the girls. I agree on the Drex's....I feel bad for them. I would prefer not to keep them, but they are our babies..... and not their fault they are ugly!LOL
If you lived closer....I would totally trade! We kept the 1 smooth boy, as he was our fav from the start. He was largest in litter and a doll. Still is. He gets neutered on April 2.
We kept Maya the Mom since we got her for my son. We kept the 2 smooth coat girls, the 2 Drex girls(a grey and a beige), plus a Rex white but she is more of a rough coat than a wavy coat.
We have talked about reducing our numbers and maybe rehoming the 2 smooth coat girls. That would give us 5 instead of 7. Hubby didnt want to keep ANY, I talked him into keeping the girls.....then Remy just kinda fell into the mix!LOL I wanted him, hubby said no. Then hubby got semiattached. I put him(remy, not hubby!LOL) up for adoption along with his 4 brothers. A gal came and adopted the 4 brothers. She had a choice out of the 5 and he wasn't picked. I took that as a sign he was meant to stay with me.


----------



## Flora

Poisoned.... are you keeping the girlie with the light hood?? She is GORGEOUS!!!


----------



## Muttlycrew

I love the new pictures! Oh how I wish I could take one! I love colors. Bright vibrant beautiful colors. I have 2 black berks, a black hooded, a pew.... You get what I'm saying I'm sure lol! I want color! Haha. 


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## Ratfinx

You'll probably think I'm dumb but what's a PEW? Haha I've heard it a lot recently 


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## Muttlycrew

Not dumb at all  its a valid question. Pew stands for pink eyed white. Some people call them albino, some call them ruby eyed white, some say red eyed white and others just say white. I say pew especially since my girly has very light pink eyes. 


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## Ratfinx

Oh I see, so mumbles a PEW! Yeah I get very confused with all the different things people call different kinds of rats hah 


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## Flora

Rumy and I are going to fight over the little pale girl!!!  I love her!


----------



## Rumy91989

Flora said:


> Rumy and I are going to fight over the little pale girl!!!  I love her!


I think you'd win that fight as you're eons closer and I have to save up money to go pick up Sprawly from Muttly. Lol. But I will be jealous of you forever if you get her. I think the hood will be a dove or lilac color when it grows in. So gorgeous!


----------



## Aether

What a beautiful litter! If I lived on that coast I might have had to pick up a boy or two


----------



## katlovesaandw

Someone needs to come up with a safe way to ship rats. You can get lizards online from places, baby chicks.... you would think there would be a safe way to ship rats.Because then I would SO be adopting one of these!!


----------



## Poisoned

Well, I had considered keeping her, but I really do think she would be better off with someone who has friendly rats for her to live with. My girls group consists of a unbalanced adult PEW who has random moments of serious aggression to people, a mostly feral hairless, and a mostly blind skittish PEW. Not good role models! But, I have not decided 100% yet. She is such a little dollbaby. The hard part of fostering is letting them go!! 

I am keeping the fawn hoodie boy. And possibly an agouti. Or two. lol 

I'll try to get some more individual shots today while Lady has a snack.


----------



## Rumy91989

katlovesaandw said:


> Someone needs to come up with a safe way to ship rats. You can get lizards online from places, baby chicks.... you would think there would be a safe way to ship rats.Because then I would SO be adopting one of these!!


There definitely are ways to ship rodents, as most large rodent suppliers ship to the stores that buy from them, but I'm not sure how humane that process is. I agree that there should be a humane and easy way, though, as I know, as you said, it can be done for reptiles with great care, including heating involved in the shipping process, etc.


----------



## katlovesaandw

I agree that the hard part of raising a litter is letting them go! Hence the reason we kept all the girls and then Remy.....1 rat on Dec. 21st.....7 rats by Feb.7th!LOL


----------



## Poisoned

IF someone here wants her, I'll definitely let her go. I'd love to be able to watch her grow up! 

More pics coming in a few minutes!


----------



## Poisoned

Photobucket is down, I'll try them as attachments for right now.


----------



## katlovesaandw

I want them ALL! OMG! So cute!


----------



## Muttlycrew

Oh man.... That orange!!!! I want it so badly! Lol!!! You have such pretty babies. I love them all! 


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## Flora

Oh my goodness I cant handle it! I will take her!!! I am in love and we are only about 40 minutes away from each other! So it is meant to be.  I am going to have to be sneaky about it though and just bring her home. Better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Rumy, at least I will still be on her to post photos and of course she will be on my youtube channel (just posted a video of the OTHER new babies from another user on here) Poisoned, we will have to keep in touch and let me know if you change your mind or find a better fit for her. I know its hard to tell this early but is she a dumbo? Kinda looks like it


----------



## mistymornings18

Do I see an agouti hooded in there ?


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## Poisoned

I don't have a means of transport, unfortunately, so if you can get her (I'm right by Fort Monroe), I'll hold on to her as long as needed. 

Have any names in mind?


----------



## Poisoned

mistymornings18 said:


> Do I see an agouti hooded in there ?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Several Agouti hoodeds.


----------



## Rumy91989

Yes, Flora, please post pictures ALL THE TIME if you get her. She is going to be one gorgeous little girl, and since she was raised under Poisoned's wonderful care she's also probably going to be the most wonderfully temperamented rat to ever exist.


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## Flora

Poisoned! We are closer than I thought. I live in Newport News in the Oyster Point area. PM your phone number.


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## Poisoned

PM'd ya! ;D


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## Flora

I dreamed about her last night ;D


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## tori_m

oh wow! what a bunch of beautiful babies!
and THANK YOU for taking in Lady, this story could have had a very different outcome!

they're all SO CUTE!


----------



## Poisoned

Sorry Flora!! I did take pics of her last night, but I discovered my seventeen-year-old leopard gecko had been savaged in her tank, I don't know if one of my rats escaped, and got right back in their cage (if it was one of them, it was Lady).. or if maybe there is a wild rat in the house. Either way, I was very distraught and totally forgot everything else. 
I am pretty sure it was Lady. The top was askew on her big tank, but she was inside. Which leads me to believe she got out and killed my leo, then went back in to feed the babies. I'm pretty sure I've gotten over the initial human reaction of being disgusted and angry with her having slept on it. It was my fault, not hers. She was doing what rats do, and I should have made the leo's cage bomb-proof. 


I've been calling this little one Hope, it just seemed fitting. I can't imagine how anyone could have killed her and fed her to something else, and how close she came to having that happen. 



























































She's a strong adventurous little thing.


----------



## KelseyShea

She's beautiful! I have to stop looking at this thread, It's killing me that we live so close!!!!


----------



## Roxy&Spot

She's smiling in the 5th picture! I love it! Cutest picture ever.


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## JLSaufl

Gah, I love her. I am so HAPPY I don't live close. I'd be over there every day.

I'm also sorry about your gecko, I'm sure that was a horrible, horrible thing to encounter.


----------



## Poisoned

Thank you.

She is a very spunky little thing. It's hard to keep a hold on her.


----------



## Flora

Oh she is gorgeous! I cant wait to meet her, I am counting down the days. She will fit right in. She is really starting to darken up. What color is that Lilac? LightWolf? lol
Is she going to be a dumbo??


----------



## Eden10

She looks like maybe silver or even a powder blue? Some shots she reminds me of my baby boy, Banshee that sadly passed away. She may darken up a little...she is gorgeous! I love the orange coloured babies too...no fair that your on the other side of the country from me!


----------



## Rumy91989

She definitely looks like a dumbo!


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## LightningWolf

She looks like a beige, and definably a dumbo. Cute girl.

Aw, sorry about your gecko  at least he lived a longish life, I know a lot of leopard geckos tend to only live to 15 years.


----------



## Jokerfest

Babies are looking amazing. <3 Still wish I could take one in.  Gosh if only I could drive..


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## Flora

Joker I can help with transport. Can you come halfway?


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## Jokerfest

Really? I'll PM you.


----------



## KelseyShea

How many still need homes? My husband says we can't handle more than four, but I say bring it on. Maybe I can convince him ;D


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## Flora

Kelsey I have 4 too and the boyfriend said no more, however I am getting that little girl anyway. Better to ask for forgiveness and permission. Whats one more?


----------



## Poisoned

I have a home for two boys, and they said they might take a third if one is available still. They'll be taking a black berk, and the fawn boy. I considered keeping him, but they seem awesome. 
A really nice lady is taking the Fawn girl and a Beige Berk girl.
Flora is getting Miss Hope. 
And I'm keeping the Fawn hoodie boy. But I may also keep an Agouti boy. 

That leaves five girls, and at least four boys. 

Flora!! Your baby opened an eye last night. She was the only one.


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## Poisoned

The black berk girl is super friendly, the one with her eyes open. She loves kisses! 
And that agouti boy in some single pics is just all over the darn place. 


























































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## Rumy91989

Those are probably the cutest pictures I've ever seen ever.


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## LightningWolf

Aw. Looking at those pictures Miss Hope (the Beige hooded?) might actually be a Champagne. Or just has really bright eyes (I've never seen a beige with that bright of ruby eyes, but ruby eyes can vary from dark to bright red)

I Love all those black berkies, you need to take more pictures. They are at their cutest stage right now


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## Poisoned

Oh I will. There are two blacks, a girl and a boy. The boy has a home, the girl doesn't. She's a doll, though. 

I guess we'll know for sure what she is once she's grown some, she sure is a pretty girl! If I wasn't at my limit right now, I would have been keeping her. But I'm glad she has found herself a great home.


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## JLSaufl

I love the black berkies as well, my favorite kind of rat. They're all so beautiful and precious.


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## Poisoned

How can you tell they're dumbo? 
I was using an online picture guide that said the ears should be lower than the eyes. I can't tell. These were my standard-ear babies from an old foster litter:

















To me they look the same, but I'm really not all that educated on the subject.


----------



## KelseyShea

So the black girl with her eyes open still needs a home? I'm in love. I highly doubt my husband will agree to one more, but darn it I'm going to try.


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## Poisoned

Yep. She has a little black mark on her belly and it almost made it look like she has a big belly button. I brought them over to my moms' today, since their eyes are open and I want them to get used to going out, and she nommed on my moms' finger nails for the longest time. Cutest little thing ever. I think she's going to be a licker! I went to kiss her nose and she licked me, kinda gross but really cute at the same time. lol!


----------



## Flora

Oh they are allllll so cute! My boyfriend wont be happy that Hope has red eyes but ooohhhhh well!
Kelsey that girlie is calling your name!! Where in VA do you live? I can also try and meet you halfway since Poisoned does not have transportation.


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## KelseyShea

Flora I live in Williamsburg. Oh my goodness she is adorable.


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## Flora

WOW! We are all so close to eachother. I am in Newport News and Melody (Poisoned) is in Hampton.


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## Cherubim

She looks like my Squeakers a little ^_^ Congrats on the babiesssss! She's a lucky gal!


----------



## Cherubim

Poisoned said:


> How can you tell they're dumbo?
> I was using an online picture guide that said the ears should be lower than the eyes. I can't tell. These were my standard-ear babies from an old foster litter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me they look the same, but I'm really not all that educated on the subject.


The ears! 



















In my knowledge, Dumbo's have slanted faces and ears go more to the side of the head and not to the top and they're bigger too. c:


----------



## Poisoned

The just don't look dumbo to me, but as I've said, I have never raised Dumbos before.


















These three have a home together. 

















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And two of these girls have a home together, with friends of the above boys' new owners.

























After what happened with my Gecko, I just cannot look at Lady the same. I'm still working to socialize her and loving on her, but deep down I'm repulsed, and I feel bad about it. I found her a home with a really nice woman who works with rats like her who need some extra TLC. I feel bad about it, but I know in the long run it will be better for her anyway, she won't be living with my crazy girls and won't have to live with me forever, when I will always have some bad feelings in the back of my head about her. And she didn't end up being eaten alive by some animal weeks ago, so it's a win-win for her.


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## Rumy91989

Lady looks like she's a great mom. 
I totally understand your desire to get her in a new home--are you 100% sure she's the one that killed the gecko, though? In any event, I'm glad she's getting a good home and that a bunch of your babies seem to have found homes. Goodness they are cute!
How many are still looking for homes?


----------



## LightningWolf

That little girl in the first group looks like an Amber (Silverfawn as some call it). They tend to lighten up as they get older, I can already see her getting lighter  Why must you tease me with All of my favorite rat colors in one litter. Oh and she looks like a dumbo?

Some of these agouti hoodeds look like Dumbos as well.


----------



## Poisoned

Does the light hooded boy I'm keeping look dumbo-ish to you?
For the life of me I can't tell! 

3 girls, and 3 boys. The black girlie, and two agouti hooded babies. I know the only males left are Agouti, two hooded and one solid.

Though I forgot the black girl was available, so I didn't offer her to the lady who is getting two hooded Agoutis, and I'm sure she'd take her if I let her know I had her available. She's super sweet. 

Yes, now I have no doubt it was her. She was sick and bloated the whole next day after eating half of the gecko, and had HUGE, soft poops ALL over the enclosure. 
Seventeen years of my life I spent with that grumpy gecko, I still can't believe she's gone.


----------



## LightningWolf

Can you post pictures of him?

I'm still sorry about your gecko


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## Poisoned

That's the best view I have of him, I should probably get some new pics of him. 


Thank you, she was very loved. I screwed up.


----------



## mistymornings18

I've always wanted an agouti hooded sigh


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## LightningWolf

Looks Dumbo to me.


----------



## Muttlycrew

It's hard to tell at this age really. To me they honestly look just like my babies who are not dumbo. I'd think they would be a little lower and bigger if they were dumbo, however I've never had a litter of dumbo babies. I just think they look no different than mine.
Absolutely adorable either way, I'm loving all of the colors. 


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## Flora

I really cant tell. Compared to the photo from your previous litter that were standard they kinda look the same. I guess we will find out soon! They look great!


----------



## Kaliloca

I've only seen one litter of Dumbos. It was the one I got Armageddon from. With that litter the top of the ear was even with the eye. She had some non-Dumbos in there and she showed me the difference. 

It was really hard to see the difference, even though they were side by side. I can't honestly say if I even saw a difference. So, I really can't say if your baby is a Dumbo or not. Of course, it really doesn't matter. He's SUPER CUTE!!!


----------



## Eden10

Awww they looks so shiny...what gorgeous little doll faces ;D ...I swear if I lived close by I would totally snap one up! Seems like they are all finding wonderful homes tho, great news!


----------



## LightningWolf

Any update pictures?


----------



## Poisoned

I was supposed to get some yesterday, but work took much longer than I thought, hopefully I will be off early this evening. They're all so precious, running around and harassing Lady, stealing her food. lol! 

Hope is the first to come charging out when I come in and look to see what I'm doing. 

What's really awesome is the woman taking Lady know two of the other people who are getting babies. 
Lady is silly. I let her run while I play with the babies and she will walk all over me, but if I pet her she gives me a dirty look and scampers off.


----------



## Flora

Poisoned are you sure you don't want to keep Hope? You sound attached to her and I promise I wont mind.


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## Poisoned

No, she's a great girlie and deserves someone who has a bit more time and no crazy rats to influence her! 
I will try for pics tonight, I just got back from work and I'm beat.


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## Poisoned




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## Poisoned

They're all starting to munch on lab blocks, I'll make them some much today with ensure/blocks and let them have at it. They're very alert and active. Hope is super inquisitive. The boy I'm keeping with the hood, Bane, seems to think I'm a chew toy, and spent most of his time licking and nibbling my fingers.


----------



## JLSaufl

OMG, they are so beautiful and sweet, I seriously want to snuggle all of them.


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## Kaliloca

Cuteness overload!!!!!! 

It's a good thing.


----------



## socal_sarah

I was thinking the light hooded one was more of a dove color myself...though maybe lilac as she seems to be getting a tad darker as she gets older. I have no vote on the ears though, as I'm still trying to figure out what kind Garnet has, lol! If you were closer to WA, I'd definitely get one of your baby girls. As it is, I may be getting Muttly's little black (?) girl once I get Garnet's nasty skin cleared up...


----------



## Kaliloca

I forgot about the Dumbo factor.......

I've looked at the pictures again. Still has that cuteness overload factor...  

I'm not seeing any Dumbo babies. All of them seem to have ears that are pointing "up".... 

Since Lady is a Dumbo, about, half of them should be showing Dumbo ears if the male was carrying the gene. All of them would be Dumbo, if the father was Dumbo. Dumbo or not. The babies are SUPER CUTE!!!


----------



## LightningWolf

I actually see some Dumbos though I'm not sure.

They aren't dove, they are beige. (one might actually be an Amber)

Can you post individual pictures of each baby? might help us with telling who is dumbo and what color, ect. (I think Hope might be a dumbo)


----------



## Poisoned

I may be able to later. They're all in that "RUN RUN RUN *NIBBLE* RUN SOME MORE!" Phase. lol! Checking everything out. 

They really went to town on that mush I made them. Hope was the only one who made sure to cover herself in it and get all dirty, so everyone else started eating it off of her.


----------



## LightningWolf

Just Hope did that? geez, you have a bunch of calm rats don't you? normally All of them are wanting to play in their food.


----------



## Kaliloca

Here's a link I found. Since you can see the babies in person. Maybe it will help determine if yours are Dumbos or not. 

http://rattiez.webs.com/kandyslitter.htm


----------



## Kaliloca

Here's some nice close ups of Normal and Dumbo babies side by side. These are much clearer and could help tell the difference. The shape if the ear is even different. It's easier to see the difference in person. I know how hard it can be to get them to sit still for pictures. 

http://www.spoiledratten.com/babypic28.html


----------



## FallDeere

None of them look dumbo-y to me, honestly. If they were, their ears would be huge by now, judging by the examples Kaliloca posted. I'm no expert, though.

They're all so adorable, though. <3 I've been enjoying following updates on them!


----------



## Jackie

THOSE BABIES ARE SO CUTE! <3 I want to steal one of the peachy ones for my own. ;-; (okay but I'm at my max so no)


----------



## Poisoned

I don't see any dumbos myself. 

I like top-eared ratties just the same, so it's fine with me.


----------



## Flora

I dont see any dumbos... Hope maybe

I also dont know about her color. She defiantly has darkened up a bit. 
Here are some examples... not sure how accurate they are but she looks like she could be anyone of these! 


Beige:







Dove:









Lilac:


----------



## socal_sarah

Flora, from what I'm seeing on my TV screen (got the laptop hooked up to a 65"), she's looking super light silvery colored. From what I've seen of the light, she could be the dove hooded or maybe the lilac. I'm not sold on the beige though because the other ones have more brown/tan tones, not silver...


----------



## LightningWolf

If she was dove there would be Russian Blues and Minks in the litter (would be Very odd and rare for there to be a Dove and no russian blues and minks, or even Cinnamons and Russian Blue Agoutis). Same goes for Lilac. Hope that helps with color confusion.

Beige rats tend to have different color shades, and beiges Also tend to darken as they get older.


----------



## Flora

LightingWolf do beige have red eyes?


----------



## LightningWolf

Flora said:


> LightingWolf do beige have red eyes?


They have ruby eyes. Ruby eyes can vary from Almost black to Bright red. Most often they are either dark red or almost black, but Bright red ones are possible.

Here's an Example with Soda. (Sorry Poison)

In normal light










and in Flash, notice how his eye color is different? They are brown/Dark red










Here is an Example with Charles, who was a Fawn, but Fawn is the same as Beige just that it's agouti based (A/- r/r) compared to Beige which is black based (a/a r/r)

No flash










Flash










I haven't had a ruby eyed rat with red eyes (though it does happen) so can't give a picture of that.

But yes, Beiges have red/ruby eyes. And there is today's Genetic lesson.  (Sorry Poison for the big pictures)

Anyways, another reasons she is a beige. Dove and Lilac don't have ruby eyes, and if they do they are Very washed out (called Tripled Dilute) almost white.

Depending on her eye color and how she turns out in her adult coat she could be a Champagne, which is a Black rat with pink eyes (a/a p/p) On Agouti it's Amber/Silverfawn (A/- p/p). There, you go 2 genetic lessons 

Oh and if you really want it, I can get a picture of Storm with flash vs. No flash to show what a Black eyed rat's eyes look like, cause I have a ton of good pictures of him with flash vs. No Flash (He was a very photogenic rat, he loved having pictures taken of him)


----------



## socal_sarah

This is what I found from the coloration thread on the general board. The closest I can see are these two:

Dove - http://www.dapper.com.au/whatrat.htm#dove

Platinum - http://www.afrma.org/ratselfs.htm

I just don't see any beige/tan in her really...


----------



## LightningWolf

Platinum is Blue + Mink.

Dove is Russian Blue + Mink.

If she was any of these she wouldn't have Ruby/Red eyes, and There would of been Blue and Mink in the litter. There is no way genetically she can be any of those (not to start a fight).


----------



## ratchet

Don't see any dumbo but boy are they adorable! The silver fawn hooded is my favorite!


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## Eden10

I LOVE LOVE LOVE the all over orange baby (haha I'm horrible with proper colour terms) this is a STUNNING litter, everybody looks different! Whyyyyy are you soooo farrrrr? Prob a good thing tho, I really don't need anymore rats lol!


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## Flora

These color combos are so interesting! I need more lessons!! Thanks LightingWolf and Sarah! She is a cutie either way.


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## LightningWolf

Flora said:


> These color combos are so interesting! I need more lessons!! Thanks LightingWolf and Sarah! She is a cutie either way.


Anyone is free to PM me for genetics lessons, just tell me if you want In depth or just just the genetic codes, especially if your confused on a type of rat. 

Oh and Yes She is Adorable either way.


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## socal_sarah

Most definitely, Flora. I'm not a fan of the hooded variety but she's beautiful!  And thanks LightningWolf, for the genetics info. Is there somewhere I can learn more about that? In biology in school, genetics was my favorite.


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## LightningWolf

socal_sarah said:


> Most definitely, Flora. I'm not a fan of the hooded variety but she's beautiful!  And thanks LightningWolf, for the genetics info. Is there somewhere I can learn more about that? In biology in school, genetics was my favorite.


you can always PM me for actual lessons or for genetic codes, it took me a while to learn mainly cause not all websites explain what's what, or what's Dominant over what, ect.

Here's some basic articles on it (and one that gives the genetic code to Most rats)

http://www.ratz.co.uk/genetics.html
http://www.spoiledratten.com/varieties.html
http://www.afrma.org/ratgenpart1.htm

Hope that helps. we're doing the genetics part of Biology right now. It's great, but it sucks cause I'm so use to doing genetics without pun-nett squares that I keep getting points taken off cause I keep forgetting to make them


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## socal_sarah

LightningWolf said:


> Hope that helps. we're doing the genetics part of Biology right now. It's great, but it sucks cause I'm so use to doing genetics without pun-nett squares that I keep getting points taken off cause I keep forgetting to make them


Shame on you for forgetting the squares!  Are you doing rat specific or just general genetics?


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## ratchet

socal_sarah said:


> Most definitely, Flora. I'm not a fan of the hooded variety but she's beautiful!  And thanks LightningWolf, for the genetics info. Is there somewhere I can learn more about that? In biology in school, genetics was my favorite.


Google (;

Have to say bio was my favorite too. Did we agree on what "orange" rat is? What's the consensus? My expertise for coloring/genetics is not in the rat world!


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## LightningWolf

socal_sarah said:


> Shame on you for forgetting the squares!  Are you doing rat specific or just general genetics?


For what? as in the lessons, I'll do rat specific, but if you need to learn about Dominant, recessive, Co-Dominant, ect I'll teach it as well. I'm currently learning Rabbit and Mouse genetics so might be able to teach that one day.

As for school, just general. We're just learning how to do 2 genes at once (forgot the actual term, oops) and do 16 square punnentt squares. Apparently we're learning how to do Co-Dominant after spring break (so this Monday). We're also learning about 36 square punnett squares. I think we might start with sex linked genetic issues like color blindness eventually.


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## LightningWolf

ratchet said:


> Did we agree on what "orange" rat is? What's the consensus? My expertise for coloring/genetics is not in the rat world!


I think the consensus for the Orange rat was either Fawn (A/- r/r) with chance of him/her being Amber (A/- p/p) depending on how he/she turns out in his/her adult coat. (I forgot if it's a girl or boy)

As for Hope, I think we have agreed that she is Beige (a/a r/r) with possible Champagne (a/a p/p) depending on her adult coats.


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## socal_sarah

Ooh, so you're doing this for a teaching degree, huh? That's freakin' awesome. I love this sort of thing!


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## Poisoned

OH you're fine Lightning! Thanks for posting. Don't ever feel bad about posting helpful info on my threads, I find it all very interesting as I don't know much about genetics. 
Is it possibly there is more than one father? I know dogs can have a litter with pups from different sires, and she was sure in with a mixed group.


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## LightningWolf

socal_sarah said:


> Ooh, so you're doing this for a teaching degree, huh? That's freakin' awesome. I love this sort of thing!


I'm in high school ;D I don't think you can get a teaching degree in high school. I just like teaching genetics (reason I make it clear anyone is free to PM me for genetic stuff on rats). Our school does have a vet program thing where it allows you that when you graduate you're able to work as an intern at a vet's office. I'm planning on doing it my senior year (you can only do it your senior year) if we still have it.


As for poisoned. It Is possible for there to be more then one father, but it's rare in rats. Also rat genetics is so vast I doubt it for this litter. Let's do today's genetic lesson 

Lady is an Agout Dumbo Berkshire. Since there are both Self and Hooded rats in the litter the dad would have to be Berkshire as well. (Hh x Hh = HH (self) Hh (berkshire) and hh (hooded)). 

Being agouti and there being Agouti, Fawn, Black, And Beige Lady is het for black, and the father was either Black or agout het for black as well (Aa x aa = Aa (agouti) and aa (black). same goes for Aa x Aa AA Aa aa (though you can't tell AA from Aa)).

Since there is Fawn and Beige, and Lady being Agouti she Has to carry the ruby eye gene. Now the father could either been a ruby eyed rat or a black eyed rat het for ruby eyes. (Rr x rr = Rr rr, ect). Ruby eyes on Agouti causes Fawn and on Black causes Beige (in rats eye color makes a Huge difference in what color the rat is).

As for Dumbo, unless a few turn out to be Dumbo, the father was a standard rat not het for dumbo (dudu x DuDu = Dudu).

Oh for those wondering to make things less confusing Lady's genes is the first one shown, normally the father's genes are shown first. Now there could be other genes that the dad could of been, but since Lady doesn't carry them none of the babies were them. Of coarse we don't know this so at the very least the dad had to be a Berkshire, had to be either Agouti het black (black is also called Self), or Black. He also had to be ruby eyed (making him a Fawn or Beige) or be het for ruby eyes.

Pink eye gene works the same way and to my knowledge is recessive to ruby eye, but I can't find any information on it. But for that to happen lady would have to be het for pink eye (Rp) and the sire would have to be ruby eyed het for pink eye (rp). Not sure how likely that is. Hope that helps though.


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## socal_sarah

Lol, go Lightning!


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## Flora

Nice LW!!!!


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## LightningWolf

I think my genetics thing scared Poisoned away ;D

I think we need some update pictures though


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## Poisoned

I'll have to try to get some while I clean the ratty room today, I've been so busy this last week/two, and now I'm sick! 

Ben seems very interested in the little ones, and Shredder is such a polite old guy about it, he sniffs and then gives them space.


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## Flora

I talked to Poisoned today and she is not able to make it on the computer. However the babies are well and starting to eat. 

Unfortunately I am no longer able to take Hope. My situation has changed and I like to consider myself a responsible pet owner. I am sad since she is so pretty however it would not be best. The 2 babies that I picked up from another member on here are ill so I dont think bringing a new baby in would be best. My boyfriend also got us another dog and I didn't know about it. Vet bills are always in the back of my mind and with 3 cats, 4 rats and now 2 dogs it is already a stretch! So Poisoned is going to keep her ;D

I am still able to help with transport if anyone with in 100 miles needs it.


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## Poisoned

Got my internet back!! Thanks for posting Flora. 

I'm not totally sure how many are available still... I need to go back through my emails! I know all of the girls are called for.

Everyone is eating on their own. Lady wants nothing to do with them - I guess I'd be sick of them too! And I will try to get some pics up later today.


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## Rumy91989

YAY PICS!!! So glad to hear they're eating on their own! Does this mean Lady goes to her new home soon? I can't wait to see pics!


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## Poisoned

Miss Lady is going to her home tomorrow, and is taking Kasa with her. Kasa is my little hairless rescue, long-term foster. I am just not the right perm. home for her, she craves other rats' attention, and my other girls have been very mean to her for these last weeks, and she's suffered a lot from it. So, keep your fingers crossed that she hits it off with her new roommate, and gets to live a happy life. She (and Lady) deserve it. 

All of my males seem to like the babies, Shredder is such a gentle old boy, and Ben was very interested, Dirk didn't really get to meet them, he just didn't seem interested.


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## Poisoned

Getting a rare treat of kitty food. The baby cage is too small now! They have developed so much in the last week.


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## LightningWolf

Aw.

You really expected that cage not to get destroyed? ;D

Hope Lady and Kasa like each other. Any news on how it's going so far on them?


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## Flora

Looks like they all came out standard eared! How funny!


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## Poisoned

Oh yeah! lol I'm about to wrap one of the big cages so they can go over there. Maybe they can go in with the males - they all love the babies. 

Lady and Kasa did meet and greet, neither are pushy or mean, so it was fine.. When I went to get them ready to go home yesterday, Kasa freaked out and repeatedly bit HARD - I tried to get her back in her cage and she escaped right before her new owners were coming. SO, they're making the trip again next week to come get her.. Lady (and her two homeless boys) went home with her yesterday, which worked great, because Lady had company for the ride, and the boys got a home. She sent me pictures of Lady settling in at her new home, and she looks pretty happy. Best she's ever had. 

Now, if Kasa hadn't acted a fool, she would have a nice cage (and new cagemate soon) all to herself. I'll try a hands-off approach to corral her next time, usually picking her up wasn't THAT bad.


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## Poisoned

Hope - ever inquisitive.


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## LightningWolf

Wow. Adorable.

Hope isn't a beige, she's a Champagne, she has those pink eyes of one. Also the one next to her (in the third picture from the bottom) is an Amber, she also has the pink eyes.

So looks like either some of the "Fawns" are just dark Ambers Or you actually Did hit the "jackpot" with genetics and their dad was a ruby eyed het pink eye.

Why did you have to have a litter that puzzles me in terms of genetics? ;D

Oh just a warning to you, Hope will get lighter when she molts, she might even look albino. Same goes for the Amber next to her. the Pink eyed gene makes them fade out to where they are super washed out, so it's hard to tell them apart from Albinos sometimes.


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## Poisoned

LW - it's already difficult to see her colors in bright light. If the flash hits her much at all, she's white.. That's interesting! But she can turn any color she wants, she's such a good little girl, the first to come poking her head out looking for scritches (And food of course). 

I'll let his new owner know what you said. The other Amber one is the male I've been thinking was fawn.

The girl in the second picture, is she fawn? That's the color of the hooded boy I'm keeping, that I can't seem to get a picture of!!


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## Rumy91989

THEY ARE ALL SO CUTE! What a great litter!


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## Flora

That amber one looks like she has white patches almost. SO cute!!!


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## Gannyaan

So gorgeous omg! I'm so happy you don't live in my area, because there would be a rat-napping 


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## LightningWolf

Poisoned said:


> The girl in the second picture, is she fawn? That's the color of the hooded boy I'm keeping, that I can't seem to get a picture of!!


I Think she is just a dark Amber? It seems odd to have Fawns, Agoutis, and Ambers (and vise versa for the black based ones) in the same litter. Guess we'll be able to tell better when they get their adult coats.


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## Poisoned

Alright... Having a super weird morning.. 

I had sixteen babies, I swear! 

While I was trying to find an agouti girl who had a home, I found an extra agouti BOY, not too unusual, I guess s/he was a late bloomer, and not well endowed. 

Well, that's fine.. However, I gave three males away this week. But I have seven males left (and seven girls)... So I have an extra rat? What on earth? 
Post #77, I took all of the babies out and counted!

In other news, they are BIG and very fast. The agouti I want (Whiskey) is a giant! I'll try for some pictures.

*Also, Lady is doing great in her new home. She took two of her sons with her and I've been getting pictures of her hanging out with her beautiful new sister in their awesome enclosure. She looks very calm and content.


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## Poisoned

Flora, I let Hope go home with a rat lady I've known for a long while. She adopted a couple girls from my last foster litter, has rat bumper stickers - she's stayed in contact with me since these babies were born, and I trust her fully with them. I didn't have a chance to tell you beforehand, I was talking to her today since she was supposed to take an agouti girl and the Amber girl, and the Agouti turned out to be male, I asked if she'd like to give Hope a home - and this way she won't be alone and can live with some nice (human friendly, too) rats. Lilith kept trying to hurt her so I would have had to keep her separated until she was big enough to defend herself. As she would have been the only girl left.

It was bittersweet to see her go. I know she's better off short and long term.. Lilith is a nutcase, and I feel like she would have possibly killed Hope how she was acting, given the chance. 

All I have left are my two boys, Whiskey and Bane, and a spare Agouti Berk that I will rehome in time if I find someone that will give him a good life, but I'm in no rush.

IT's so hard to see them go, even though I know they have great homes..

Also, I got three more people to check out that awful pet shop - one of them had the same reaction I did, said she just wanted to cry. She told them she was buying feeder rats for her TARANTULAS and they didn't even bat an eye at her, and sold her a hairless dumbo (with cute siamese points) and a fluffy little baby blue girl. Hopefully, they will report them as I did and something can be done, I know the local rat community is being made aware of the nightmare in there now. All because of Lady. 
Who looks so happy in her pictures. I'm thrilled for her.


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## LightningWolf

Aw. Sounds like she's a good person though.

Wow, That store really needs to be fixed. No pet tarantula (even the big ones that get over a foot across) can eat a rat, most are only fed insects with the occasionally mouse (rodents often aren't given as it can make a tarantula obese or give them shedding issues, which for a tarantula a bad shed can mean death). I think they need more education then anything.


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## Poisoned

Yep! I continually told them that years ago when they kept putting rat pups in with their big tarantulas. Too much calcium, too rich, bad for the T and seriously inhumane to the rat. 


She is. She said she'd send updates on the girls... Fostering is mentally exhausting! I get attached to every single one. 
I'm going to wrap the boys' cage and work on intros with the baby boys next..


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## Flora

I am just now seeing this!! Glad Hope got a good home. I am glad I made the decision not to take her. Its been crazy at my house with the new dog. He is not working out and trying to kill the rats and my cats. I have not had much time with my ratties so I feel bad. We are not going to keep the new dog. My girls will be glad for longer free range time again! 

I will never be going to that pet shop!!!


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## Poisoned

Sorry about the new dog. High prey drive is really nothing you can train out of a dog, it's instinct and it's a huge pain to manage. My German Shepherd had ridiculous prey drive and LUCKILY he listens pretty well, but even then he's tried to snatch the young rats before. It takes a LOT of restraint on his part to not attack them, and I've had him since 

The woman who took Lady got her in to a vert for her checkup and she had a RI! She wasn't showing signs, I feel awful.. but she's very happy with her new home and her new owner adores her. So she's had a very happy ending.


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## TJ'sGirl2012

she's beautiful looks like a Reese's peanut butter cup with that coloring similar to my male almost and I actually named him Reese's lol. Best of luck to you naming her and to a healthy litter would love to see pictures of the babies after they are born.


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## Poisoned

Update!
I got these three returned to me. 









Silver Fawn(Amber, Argenté) is what he turned out to be. I'm sure.


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## RosesRufflesandRats

They are beautiful!!!!


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## Kaiser

Aww so cute!


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## Flora

Why did they return them??


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## Poisoned

No good reason. Actually, they gave them to the lady who helped me place and transport many babies. And she let me know that they gave them back to her and asked if I minded her looking for new owners, but she had no luck finding them a good home, so I took them and two of her foster dumbo boys (you can see one in the background) back. They are really awesome, the Agouti is very lovable, the black is a total butthead and tries to pee on me every time I'm there, but he's still sweet, and the Fawn is a little more shy than the others, but is fine with being picked up and loved on. The dumbos are very shy.

I don't know who I will keep. They're living with their two brothers I kept before and as of right now I'm not sure who I click with the most.


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## j_kalman

Oh!! I just read through this thread. Too much cuteness for me to handle. It's a good thing I don't live close to you! I have 10 rats already and I would just want to take more. LOL


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## jez

I just read the entire thread, too. I only have 3 and it tempts me to get more, haha.


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## WinonaGun42

Oh my. I just read up on the thread again. I would so take those three little boys that were returned if I lived anywhere near you. They are absolutely adorable.


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## Flora

They are cute boys!


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