# New rescued rat - very aggressive.



## aminathehyena (Jul 28, 2011)

Hi! I just found this delightful forum and registered only moments ago because I AM DESPERATE!

Here's my story:

I'd been thinking about getting a couple rats for a while now. I remember having them when I was younger and really, really enjoying them. 

I work at my local Petco (awful store, but it pays for my dinner) and a couple weeks ago someone brought in a large male hooded rat (that I'm presuming they bought from our store originally) who was living in a disgusting cage (Rusty and wire-bottomed. And small.) with gross bedding and not even a proper food bowl. His name was Finnegan and I felt for him immediately. I approached him at work and put my finger through the wires, smiling as Finnegan walked up to my finger. Then he bit me. Hard. I bled for a while and it took days to heal up. But whatever, I said, he's in a terrible cage in a busy, noisy store, where snot-nosed kids come up and poke at him all day and as far as he knows, I'm no better. I resolved to get him out the situation asap. 

I took him home, got him a fancy 3-story cage, set him up with an igloo he could hide in, threw in a hammock a few days later, and quite a few hand towels that he LOOOOVES and that smelled like me. 

Now, I knew Finn wouldn't warm up to me immediately. I have no illusions that he's even going to warm up to me anytime soon. My biggest question is: WHAT ON EARTH CAN I DO TO WIN HIM OVER AT ALL? I read the section on timid and/or aggressive rats, and I think there's great info there. It's just, I don't know how well the gradual approach would work with putting food in my hands, as he consistently attempts to bite my fingers (and HARD) whenever he can. He'll take treats out of my hand without much fuss, anyway. But I am really am anxious about sticking all 5 of my fingers in the cage at once. I don't trust him not to try and tear up each one. 

I'm also weary of the forced approach mostly because the animal lover/trainer in me really believes in positive reinforcement and not scaring an animal half-to-death for half an hour. But I'm thinking more and more about trying it. Are there lots of others who have used this approach before with success? I've heard about this on other sites, so I gather it must have merit.

For some other info about what I've been doing with Finn, I've taken to giving him treats (yogurt drops or dog kibble - which he adores, and which I prefer because they take longer for him to eat) when he's chilling in his beloved hammock (seriously, he hardly leaves the thing during the day) and petting him while he eats. I figure, since he doesn't _stop_ eating he can't be too bothered by my touch, but he gets antsy about it when he's done with his snack. And he has a lot of other behavior that confuses me, despite my research. For example, he follows my movements all the time. He runs along his cage when I walk by (kind of like charging, but do rats even do that?), and he always sniffs me when I come up to the cage. Sometimes I can put my fingers just outside the wire without him trying to scratch or bite, but it's a pretty solid 50/50 chance he'll try. He also bruxes at me sometimes. He never runs away from me (except when he sees the towel that means I'm going to carry him to his horrible spare cage in order to clean his new one - which is mostly why I've turned to spot cleaning now. He hangs out on the upper level while I'm making the ruckus, occasionally popping down to fret over the mess I'm making. He sniffs and then hops through the various levels of the cage, obviously agitated) before/after bruxing. He just stares at me and chatters his teeth. 

There's a small part of me that wonders if he actually might like me and his bites are just REALLY HARD nips he doesn't understand are bad, and that he follows me around when I walk by because he wants the attention he was denied in his previous home. But I think that's mostly wishful thinking. 

In general, for the record, he seems comfortable. He drags around his dish cloths, he sleeps in his hammock, he eats his Oxbow pellets with relish. He loves corn on the cob, green peas, nectarines, and bananas and he drinks plenty of water. 

I also really want to get him a friend, as I know that social interaction is hard-wired into rats. But I worry about his aggression being towards other rats, especially given that he's an adult male (sorry, don't know how old he actually is) and is very large.

So! This has been a huge post! I'm sorry for the length. I'm just trying to be thorough. My rat knowledge is admittedly lacking. I've been surfing the web, scanning books and magazines, and talking to those more knowledgeable than me, but no information has seemed to be incredibly applicable. Getting Finn at all was a last minute act in the first place because our store was desperate to get rid of him (his ugly cage was ruining our *impeccable* image - SARCASM!) and I was afraid that someone would take him who didn't have the patience for him and his behavior and then he'd be right back. 

I'm grateful to anyone who has some advice! I really want to be a good rat owner, and I plan on having rats for a good long while.


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

Thank you for giving this bitey boy a chance.

With his agitated hopping and aggression, I would want to neuter him. Sometimes male rats hit puberty and get an onslaught of hormones. I would do this before adding another male, but definitely do get him a friend.

What general area do you live in? We may be able to give you a vet reccomendation.

Oh and there's no way I'd put my fingers with food on them near him either!!! Put it in on a spoon, he'll still have to stay near you and get used to you to eat, but it keeps your fingers safe!


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## aminathehyena (Jul 28, 2011)

Thanks for the advice! Neutering is something to think about. I'm gonna give it another few weeks to see if we make any improvements. I live up in Humboldt County - I'm a student at HSU. 

The spoon idea is a good one! What I did the other day was sit outside his cage and place cardboard boxes just outside his cage to block off some space, then I placed half a yogurt drop on the floor and opened up his cage door. He came out to get the treat then scattered back into this cage. We did this a couple of times. I'm gonna keep trying, maybe next time using a spoon. Maybe we can slowly graduate to the palm of my hand!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Let's see...your boy;

1) puffs up his fur?
2) huffs at you through the bars, and chatters his teeth (stress and anger)?
3) "tracks" your movements and may lunge at the bars if you get close?
4) digs with his front paws?
5) rubs his sides along things? He's marking, they have scent glands over their hips and they rub it against things to claim as theirs.
5) seems normal, then bites and becomes a "monster"? 

He is very hormonal, probably the reason he was dumped at the store. Nice baby ratty grew up (badly bred at a mill or BYB) and unfortunately when his hormones kicked in, they went into overdrive, he started nipping, which rapidly became biting and the owners dumped him. These boys are not happy during their rages and a neuter can do the world of good for them. Within a few weeks, you usually have a loving boy you can get to know the way you want. Plus, you can now add girls to the equation since he's neutered and there are no issues with possible pregnancies. 

I have taken in many throwaway hormonal males...most respond beautifully in just a few weeks (or even less) after the hormones lessen.

the longer you wait the more you might end up with a pattern of behaviour rather than just hormones, these can be a lot harder to deal with in the end.


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

http://northerncaliforniaratcommunity.com/newveterinarins.aspx

This has a listing of veterinarians that see rats in northern california.


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## aminathehyena (Jul 28, 2011)

The neutering is definitely something I'm researching/considering (Thanks so much for that link! Unfortunately, no vets are listed in my area. I'll be calling around soon.), but I admit to being very hesitant about it. I'm a poor college student, and since it's not a guaranteed fix I'm a little apprehensive. However, I'll be calling to see if any vets do the surgery and how much they cost, so if I can find one at an affordable price I might just do it.

I'm not so sure how much I'll need it, though. I may have had somewhat of a break through today! Finn was lying in his hammock, and I opened up the top level door and put in my hand. He sniffed at my finger (which I was keeping well away from his teeth) and then let me pet his head - without even getting a treat. He sort of let his eyes droop closed a little bit, too. It didn't last long and when I tried again he wouldn't keep still, but it's something!

I still think there's some aggression issues to be worked on, so I'm still VERY OPEN for advice. Just wanted to share the little moment I just had.  

And thanks again for the input. It's given me a lot to think about.


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## ratjes (Mar 26, 2011)

Have you tried to let him out of his cage? It might distract him from his issues and from being territorial. from what I read it doesn't sound hopeless. he considers people evil because of his past and it is normal that he doesn't immediately trust you. How could he? Time and patience will do the trick I am sure. I would rather intro him to a spayed female.
Forceably removing him doesn't help your cause. Can't you clean the cage with him on another level or while he is roaming in your room?
Please keep us posted; we all learn from each other.
And thank you on his behalf for giving him a peaceful life. It is hard if you don't get a payoff but consider the payoff his much improved life with you.


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## aminathehyena (Jul 28, 2011)

I haven't let him out of his cage beyond the cardboard adventure. I think if I let him loose I'd never get him back. 

Yeah, I don't blame him for for not trusting me at all! I wouldn't if I were him. 

And I quit taking him out of his cage for cleaning. I basically just grab handfuls of dirty litter and take out poop with my hands when I clean. He gets really agitated, but then he also eats so I dunno if he isn't as agitated as I think (I think it because he jumps from level to level when I go in, and is overall not calm and relaxed) or if he, like many people, just turns to food when he's stressed! Ha, I'm mostly joking about that, but sometimes I wonder....He stares me down over his pellets while I take out the poo, chewing furiously. 

I'll be fine if he never comes around to me. I know anything is better than the situation he was in before!


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## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

You did a wonderful thing by giving this 'problem' boy a home!

I'll admit that I do not have much experience with aggressive rats, but I have plenty of experience with timid ones! 

I have used 'forced socialization' to great effect with timid rats. My one boy, Conrad, was such a mess when I rescued him that he would shriek, not squeak, but SHRIEK when I picked him up. He was not in pain and I tried working with him slowly for nearly a year before I decided to give the forced approach a try. I, like you, was very hesitant to do it, but did it ever WORK! He is still not an affectionate rat, and he still spooks easily, but he welcomes my hand now and will even come over for a scratch voluntarily now. I highly recommend this method, though, I would wait for a while in your case.

It sounds as if your boy has more of an aggression problem than a timid problem. It sounds like he has already been put through more than his fair share of grief with his previous owners and I don't think you would be doing him any favors now by trying it. If you decide to have him fixed and he is still having problems that the slow approach does not fix I would try forced.

I hear ya about the neutering too. A neuter in my area (mid east coast U.S.) costs about $500 O_O

I have been blessed with a wonderful SPCA rescue that has a vet clinic and requires that ALL dogs cats and rabbits be fixed before adoption and that all male rats be neutered. Because they require it, they only charge a $15 surgery fee on top of the regular $10 adoption fee. If it were not for them, I would never be able to afford fixing them. 

If you do decide to fix, I would recommend getting him 2 little girls for cage mates. Even with my males fixed, they still show aggression to other males sometimes. I have never had a problem integrating young females in with them though. And I recommend getting 2 so that if Finnegan is getting older than they would have each other in the event that he passes on before them. 

Best of luck!


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## aminathehyena (Jul 28, 2011)

Finn lets me pet him now! I can pet his head and his back and even ruffle his fur a bit. I've started adding a little bit of pressure (squeezing his sides THE BAREST amount) in order to prep for picking him up someday. I'm definitely going to hold off on the neutering since he's getting much better with touch. Which is good because I think we might have a health issue on our hands now.

I keep finding dried blood in his hammock that's spread around like dust. By which I mean there are no streaks and no spots (though I found some spots on some paper he has in his cage). It just looks like reddish dust all over. He has no open wounds I can see (and I've checked much of his back and looked at his belly when he stands on his hind legs). I haven't seen any fleas either. Sometimes there's a little bit of dried blood at the base of his tail. And a couple times now (spread apart by a couple days) I've seen a dot of blood by his nostrils. But that's not consistent. 

I know he needs to see a vet, but I've been putting it off since it doesn't appear to be an urgent problem. He still eats really well and drinks just fine. He's active at night. He defecates and urinates fine, too (I've seen him do both). I'm trying to see how much friendlier I can get him before I have to traumatize him at the vet's office. Not to mention the potential cost is kind of daunting to me. In the mean time, do any of you guys maybe have an idea of what could be wrong? Have you seen anything like this before?

He does scratch himself, but I can't tell if he's itchy or just grooming. And though the nostril blood spot is the most scary thing to me, I want to make it clear it doesn't look anything like a bloody nose. He just has had a dot of blood (the size of a pin prick) right BELOW his nostril. I wonder if maybe he's scratched himself?


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

It isn't blood, its porphyrin. Rats produce it in excess when they are very stressed or ill. The sooner you get him checked out the sooner he can feel better, so I wouldn't put off a vet visit, especially with how quickly rats can go downhill if they are sick.


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## aminathehyena (Jul 28, 2011)

Ah! Thank you! I've looked up porphyrin and Finn does sneeze a bit, so I'm thinking that must be it. I'll call the vet today and try to get in tomorrow. 

It's just nice to have a better idea of what it might be. I greatly appreciate the speedy feedback.


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

Ah with the sneezing and porphyrin he may have a mild URI. Good luck at the vets and no problem. I know it does make it easier when you have an idea what is going on.


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## aminathehyena (Jul 28, 2011)

So Finn went to the vet on Thursday and got a full body examination, a skin scrape, and a fecal sample test done. He has no skin conditions (thew wanted to check 'cause he had some debris in his coat - but I think it's just food because he eats in his hammock where he also sleeps), and he got some antibiotics for a potential URI. He didn't actually sound all that sick to the vet, but given the porphyrin and the sneezing we figured better safe than sorry.

It's been a couple days and the sneezing is almost gone entirely and I have yet to spot any porphyrin in his hammock! 

He still lets me pet him a little bit, and he bruxed/boggled at me. But I still have a really hard time telling if he bruxes out of comfort or stress. I think when he did the boggling he was happy (his body looked relaxed and his eyes were half-closed) but then again he tried to bite me when I moved in to pet him again. I did move quickly, though - maybe too quickly.

Anyway, thanks so much for all of the input, everyone! I think with patience I can win him over. I've got to give it more time before I try adding any companions, and I'm still thinking about neutering him. We'll just have to see....


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