# Please Help Im Scared and Confused



## ameliaflame

People have over and over been telling me not to breed my rat since she is from a petstore, they say that there is an almost 100% chance of her and the pups dying and i'm supposed to pick up the male on Friday...oh what should I do! I don't want to lose Marsha but Ive worked so hard to get all the stuff for breeding her and educated myself around the clock. I want Marsha babies with all my heart, but I just don't know what to do! Help please....


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## lunascrest

My rat(Luna) was from a petstore and I bred her to one of my bucks and 23 days later...8 babies...1 died so now theres seven babies. But, there always is a slight possibility that your rat may die giving birth, but Luna(she was bred for the 1st time too!) is doing fantastic. Her rittens are now 5 days old.


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## STUgirl55

I bought a rat from the petstore that was already pregnant, she had fifteen babies without any problems, and not a single one died, they're almost a week old now and doing fine, and she's just great, and (other than her personality because she's being protective) is back to her old self.


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## hjkaga

its not so much that she will die (of course that is always a concern) its the fact that pet store rats are poorly bred and usually have health concerns. you really shouldn't breed just to breed. their are so many rats out there that already need homes, why make more. i would rather go save a rat that needs a home then create more babies. check the humane societies and classifieds in your area. you may be able to find some rats that need homes. if you must get a rat from a pet store then get from one that takes very good care of their animals.


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## codcommando

IMHO rat birth complications like human birth complications would depend on the health of the birth giver. But I deffinetly agree with hjkaga, dont make more rats,adopt another, theres alot of poor rats sitting at Petco either aging in a small aquarium or waiting to be fed to a Python


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## Psykotik

SAVE THE RATS, NUKE THE WHALES!


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## codcommando

Seconded! Those plankton eatin hippies


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## Vixie

codcommando said:


> theres alot of poor rats sitting at Petco either aging in a small aquarium or waiting to be fed to a Python



I honestly wouldn't go out and save a feeder rat. That will just raise the demand for them.


But I absolutely despise Petco. I went to check them out and saw a rat dead and another one drop dead rihgt before me and it took hours before an ascociate came and picked them out. 

Bonus: it was some bimbo chick who was grabbing them and just slamming them in a box, being disgusted by even touching them.(how she reacted to the rats made me want to giggle, but I couldn't because I just felt so bad about those poor rats)


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## hjkaga

the petco near me seems to be a pretty good one, so far. all the cages are nice and clean and the animals look healthy. only complaint i have is the rat cages are way to small.


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## STUgirl55

what's Petco? Is it like Pets Unlimited?


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## hjkaga

its a large chain pet store.


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## Vixie

hjkaga said:


> the petco near me seems to be a pretty good one, so far. all the cages are nice and clean and the animals look healthy. only complaint i have is the rat cages are way to small.


Most any petstore who is a mass provider of small animals will have overcrowed or insufficient housing. I don't find that to be much of a turnoff as long as they pass my checklist...


-Some form of 'house' or hideaway
-full to half-full waterbottle(it has to be a hanging one)
-Full to half-full food bowl with lab block(most petstores won't make a blend there in the store)
-some form of exercise(wheel, namely, perferrably solid-surface wheel)
-Moderately clean walls(a little dirt in the corners is expected, olmost, but it's a great plus for me if it's absolutely clean)
-paper pulp bedding or aspen(cornncob grows molds when moist, and everyone knows what the cons are to other beddings)
-animals seem to be active, healthy, and curious about you(at least the rats should be; I'm not up on my hamster, gerbil and guinea pig knowledge)


...so, ja, that's my 'petstore checklist'.


I find that I usually get good pets if the petstore has the above qualities. Any store that doesn't meet those demands are either selling them as feeders, or just don't care and don't provide sufficient pets.

and I, personally, highly discourage 'feeder rescues'. I know it feels great when you've saved a feeder or two, but that only raises the demand for them and cuases more to come into production.


...end of ramblings, I swear...xD




(EDIT) It just hit me you might be talking about the cages they sell for you to take them home to. It's rare that you find cages actually built for rats, to be honest. you usually have to buy big birdcages or find a cage online.


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## hjkaga

yes i was talking about the cages they house them in at the store. one thing i really like about the local petco is they house the males and females seperately. so you can buy a female and not end up with a whole litter too. the local superpetz houses males and females together all the time, so you pretty much always end up with babies if you buy a female there. they mainly just have them for feeders there, not pets.

i want to get a few more rats in the near future. i am looking in classifieds for ones near me looking for homes. if it comes down to buying a pet store rat i will go to the petco so i know what i am getting.


ps. your checklist is very good and from what i can remember the local petco passes it...i'll have to go in and check for sure on the wheels, but i know they have the rest of the stuff on the list.


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## Vixie

hjkaga said:


> one thing i really like about the local petco is they house the males and females seperately. so you can buy a female and not end up with a whole litter too. the local superpetz houses males and females together all the time, so you pretty much always end up with babies if you buy a female there. they mainly just have them for feeders there, not pets.



Yeh, basically. Any place that houses males and females together are selling them as feeders and don't see them as a major investment.

And I, personally, don't want to experience any trauma of a feeder birth, they have much higher risks of complications(as far as I know).


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## cupids_cuties

honestly...ive heard so much about the whole dont save feeders and dont support pet shops and mass breeders...but the fact of the matter is...there will always be a demand...pets, food, breeding...for these reasons and probably more...there will always be rats in the petshops waiting.
so i wont go to a breeder who breeds litters expressely for people...i will continue going to petshops or animal shelters( if that ever occurs in the futur) bcause not buying them will not make them go away...you cant deny their existence, and if every two or 3 years i can promise one of those rats a good home, i most certainly will.
every rat ive owned is from a pet store, and pedigree or no pedigree, they have been some of the most loving amazing animals i have encountered. 
(and on th whole traumas of having a feeder or petshop rat, you cant control what happens, and if a rat gets sick, the rat gets sick, and if you believe a rats destiny is written out in its genes, if this can determine whether a rat gets cancer at 1 1/2 yrs old, then it will happen, but as was the case with one of my most memorable rats, she had a beautiful life and was sorely missed, and it was a harsh reality that had to be faced but not one that i am willing to hide from)

thats just my opinion

and also, my rats have all been healthy except for soxs<3 who died of cancer and george who died young


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## FairytaleRat

Petstores dont always hire the most educated people, but maybe take your rat to your vet and get a nice health check up. Sometimes they seem healthy and all of a sudden symptoms come up. Just because it is from a pet store does not mean it is an unhealthy rat. Just have a vet set up for any problems. 
Always pay attention to your animals so you know their normal behavior and that way if something changes you will know. Trust yourself, you instincts and the voice your animal uses to talk with you to tell you what is going on.
We have to learn and do the best we can. Hope I have helped. I try to listen to my animals, know the basic needs and realise they are each an individual. 



ameliaflame said:


> People have over and over been telling me not to breed my rat since she is from a petstore, they say that there is an almost 100% chance of her and the pups dying and i'm supposed to pick up the male on Friday...oh what should I do! I don't want to lose Marsha but Ive worked so hard to get all the stuff for breeding her and educated myself around the clock. I want Marsha babies with all my heart, but I just don't know what to do! Help please....


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## Shar

I asked a similar question before I knew anything about rats. A well educated, caring breeder said it to me like this:

Imagine you are on an island (in a pet store)
The only people around you are your brothers and sisters (littermates)
You can only have babies with your siblings, because there is no other option (remember, youre a rat, so there are 12 littermates besides yourself)
within 4 generations you are able to breed with only your offsprings' offspring, with no new genetic material coming into the mix.

Tumors, aggression, genetic defects, diseases, all of those things are now being bred into your progeny. To make matters worse, your island is getting crowded.

Do you really want to breed more of these? The only way to avoid it is to get a healthy baby from good breeding stock. Good breeders will keep their babies until they are grown, watch for defects, aggression, diseases, and stop the bad traits by not breeding them again. In the meantime, they will breed the happy, healthy lines to continue them.

The average lifespan of a pet rat is 2 years. This includes the babies that we bring home from the pet store that die in the first week from myco or the first months from tumors as well as the well bred pets that live for 3 and 4 years. Given a choice, i would rather have 3 or 4 years with a healthy rat than 1 year with a sick rat that I have to take to the vet every 3 weeks. Don't get me wrong, I love my little pet store girl and the babies she was already pregnant with, but we have lost 6 of them in their first year. It's heartbreaking.


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## Iloveratz500

hmmm...............toughie.

I'm sure she'll be fine. I have heard of plenty on rats who have been fine who have been from a petstore.


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## AMJ087

My rats where from a pet store adn they had an accidental litter and all were well. She had 11 pups. One died at 4 weeks becasue of an accident (she chewed adn choked on plastic) but they were all very bealthy!!!


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## zombunny

If you don't already know that breeding pet store rats is a bad idea, you have probably not "educated yourself" enough on breeding and should not be doing it. Period.


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## zombunny

cupids_cuties said:


> honestly...ive heard so much about the whole dont save feeders and dont support pet shops and mass breeders...but the fact of the matter is...there will always be a demand...pets, food, breeding...for these reasons and probably more...there will always be rats in the petshops waiting.
> so i wont go to a breeder who breeds litters expressely for people...i will continue going to petshops or animal shelters( if that ever occurs in the futur) bcause not buying them will not make them go away...you cant deny their existence, and if every two or 3 years i can promise one of those rats a good home, i most certainly will.


Sounds like a cop out to me. People rob convenience stores every day. That problem will probably never go away. There will always be people robbing convenience stores. But am I going to charge into a 7-11 with a shotgun simply because I can't stop it from happening anyway? No, because it's still unethical.


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## 2boysloose

I think that as long as you have been very well edcauted, can afford the babiea and vet care, and plan on using these babies for pets, not food...then breed Marsha. =]
Almost all of my rats have been from petstores, except for two males I am keeping from a litter one of my femmales (from a petstore!) recentley had. =]


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## ration1802

Has anyone actually realised how old this thread is? Goes back to Feb 2007 peeps

Although I will just add for future reference to this thread; breeding petstore is NEVER the right thing to do if you truly care about rats as a species


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## me_rat_lover

I got my 2 rats from a pet store and i am going to breed mine!~!~


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## Stace87

me_rat_lover said:


> I got my 2 rats from a pet store and i am going to breed mine!~!~


Despite all the information you have been given NOT to. Generally the reason people join a forum such as this is to gain information on what to do that is best for their rats... exactly why have you joined if you take no notice of anything said?


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## Corrie

I'm starting to wonder if me_rat_lover is actually a troll who is trying to cause drama and picking on the one thing that they know will get people's backs up on these forums. She/he seems to reposting again and again the same thing which makes me think it's to get everyone's attention. I think the fact that this supposed 10/11 year old has managed to set up their own website suggests they're not as stupid as they make out. Even simple websites require the person to be able to manage a certain amount of coding. I don't think this person is an ignorant 10 year old. 

I wonder if we're all being taken for a ride and should just ignore them. It's a shame there's no moderator presence around to just block them.


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## ration1802

me_rat_lover said:


> I got my 2 rats from a pet store and i am going to breed mine!~!~


Then you are a bigger fool than I already thought. Nice one, you're going to get flamed good for that one.

As Stace said, the point of forums is to LEARN. You've shown a childish attitude towards the whole concept of pet ownership. Grow up.


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## Clairebert

Ration1802 said:


> me_rat_lover said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got my 2 rats from a pet store and i am going to breed mine!~!~
> 
> 
> 
> Then you are a bigger fool than I already thought. Nice one, you're going to get flamed good for that one.
> 
> As Stace said, the point of forums is to LEARN. You've shown a childish attitude towards the whole concept of pet ownership. Grow up.
Click to expand...


me_rat_lover has already been flamed by many a people, somewere on the Meet My Rat threads, and unfortunately I really don't think we convinced her out of it. However, I'm a sole believer in "try, try, and try again". 
I ditto what Ration says. I'm pretty sure I've made this already quite clear, but still...one loud DITTO. 

Corrie, I've actually been wondering the same thing. I mean...when i was 11, I had no idea how to make anything work on the internet except for the basics (that may just be me though). But I've seen many trolls in my Harry Potter forum haydays, and me_rat_lover has the makings of one.


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## me_rat_lover

Ration1802 said:


> me_rat_lover said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got my 2 rats from a pet store and i am going to breed mine!~!~
> 
> 
> 
> Then you are a bigger fool than I already thought. Nice one, you're going to get flamed good for that one.
> 
> As Stace said, the point of forums is to LEARN. You've shown a childish attitude towards the whole concept of pet ownership. Grow up.
Click to expand...



oh my gosh cant beleave i am saying this but i got my mind set on something then i cant get it of so PLEASE I AM BEGING YOU TO DROP THIS CRAP.........Ration1802 you told me to grow up well guess wat back at u


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## ration1802

I am perfectly grown up and responsible, thank you very much.

People will not drop this simply because you refuse to listen and you say so. No one will roll over and listen to this without voicing their opinion - of which we are all entitled to have.

I only hope that you don't have any complications during your little unethical adventure, because I don't see many people saying anything more than "we told you so" to you at this point.


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## zombunny

me_rat_lover, I can only hope that if you are seriously considering breeding your rats and not just pulling our legs, your parents will be wise enough to intervene.


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## me_rat_lover

Ration1802 said:


> I am perfectly grown up and responsible, thank you very much.
> 
> People will not drop this simply because you refuse to listen and you say so. No one will roll over and listen to this without voicing their opinion - of which we are all entitled to have.
> 
> I only hope that you don't have any complications during your little unethical adventure, because I don't see many people saying anything more than "we told you so" to you at this point.


ok this is a persons thread not ours to be mean on so make our own


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## Stace87

No-one is being mean.


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## me_rat_lover

this is her thread so i will make our own ok


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## Stace87

me_rat_lover said:


> this is her thread so i will make our own ok


No. Why does this need to go on more?


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## me_rat_lover

well i dont want it to go ON but everyone said it is so i maid the new thread and i would love for it to STOP

This is for Ration1802 Clairebare Gzzmo_m2 Stace87 Me_rat_lover Zack............ THATS WAT THE THREAD NAME IS


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## Bobshammy

I go to the nearest petstore to me to pick up rodent blocks for my rats and just out of curiosity i checked out there rats and it was awful. I almost cried there was a mom nursing newborns and older babies at the same time and another mom with babies in the other corner of the cramped aquarium cage. It was just horrible. Can you report stuff like that?


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## ration1802

Bobshammy said:


> Can you report stuff like that?


It can't hurt to try. Whether they listen or not is a completely different question, but you will feel a lot better for doing it


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## begoodtoanimals

I have turned in pet stores and things have improved all though still not ideal but better. You just have to do what you can.
With the whole community we got rid of all the pet stores selling puppies and kittens from and in miserable conditions.


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