# Yellow Skin - Bad Smell - Please Help



## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

Today I took my 3 adult males outside and under the sunlight their skin looked weird. It has a greenish glow. I checked all of their skin and its splotchy and yellow.

They also smell strong of urine. I checked their shredded newspaper bedding - its moist and smells like urine.

Could they be staining their skin with their urine? If not - what do you think is going on? I haven't observed any change in their behavior.


----

Also, I've been using Bi-Odor for over 6 weeks now. Nothing. I'm doing daily clean-up in and around my FN141 every day and my room still slightly smells. I whipe down the upper level every day, spot clean, and now I've been using Clean Cage Deodorizer.

But its getting worse. Its getting to the point where I can't stand it. 

Even after I completely clean the cage it still smells kind of dirty in my room.

Need some advice =(


----------



## SweetLittleDelilah (May 13, 2008)

To me, it sounds like buck grease. Nothing to worry about, just a male thing caused by hormones. =]
I've heard that it's bad for their skin...though I could be incorrect.
A way to get it off is to bathe them with dawn dish soap and scrub gently with a toothbrush..it'll get that stuff right off!

ETA:
About the stinky...well, I'm not really sure what to tell you. Males are supposedly more stinky than females, and I have girls. =/ Hopefully someone with boys can help you more.


----------



## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

It could be urine, however I'd wonder more about buck grease, an oily orangey secretion from males.

Wash them as SweetLittleDeliah suggested... and make sure you're changing the bedding often. Shredded newspaper doesn't absorb well.

Edited to add: Are you cleaning the table/floor/wall around the cage as well?


----------



## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

shredded newspaper could be part of the problem since that does absolutely nothing to control odor & wet paper has a funk-stink of its own. You mentioned the paper is wet... if the water bottle isn't leaking then it would mean it is urine & a lot of it if paper is damp/wet.

I used bi-odor & I noticed a difference in less than a week. We didn't have a issue with smells in the first place but I was curios if it would make any change & it did. Especially with the ferrets. I may or may not continue with using it with the rats because as I said, we don't have a stinky rat situation & with 57 rats currently... it is amazing. 

We clean shelves daily to every others day. We wipe down the walls every few days. The entire cage is stripped & cleaned every 3 days for the cages with a large number of rats & at least once a week for the cages with 1 to 3 rats in it. I use Aspen bedding. I use fabric such as terry towels, fleece, t-shirt material & even old bed sheets in the cages. These items are swapped out often & washed or just tossed out & replaced. We feed Harlan 2018. I feed a big selection of fresh fruits & vegetables. The rats get a chicken leg bone treat once a week. (or wing bones since it is now football season). Sometimes they get our leftover veggies from dinner or a little taste of a meat such as fish that never really tastes as good reheated. I also give them frozen mixed vegetable or just peas in the fishing expedition during their free range time. Once a month or so I splurge & buy a bag of theose tiny itty bitty shrimp & give everyone a nibble of that.

They get a wide range of dried pastas or dry egg noodles. I feed them rolled oats (uncooked) I feed them a cereal I found that is like a cheerios but it is advertised as being 75% organic with no preservatives or additives. Its called Annie's Homegrown Bunny Love. I found this at Big Lots for a $1 a box I bought like 20 boxes of it. This is now a finger treat. I feed them puffed brown rice, also a finger treat. I give them Total cereal. I buy the 12 grain bread that has sunflower seeds in it & I chop up a loaf into cubes. They are fed this as well as a treat. 

That pretty much covers the diet part of it. 

The reason I wrote this is because I am a firm believer in diet playing a huge part in what the rats smell like. In a week's time the rescues I brought in that were rather stinky have made an about face. I can bury my nose deep in the fur & inhale & no stink.


----------



## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

Thanks to SLD & Forensic.

Julia - special thanks for taking the time to type all that info.

You guys have given me hope. I've been struggling with this for weeks thinking that it was something I could not control.

I've been using mainly a seed mix and another bag of lab blocks combined with occasional fresh food. When the girlfriend originally had the boys she fed fresh fruit and vegetables but slowed it down because the droppings started to smell very bad. I will start incorporating fresh foods into their diet and see how that goes. Maybe the Bi-Odor will go well with this.

I'm going to construct perfect-size sheets and use some binder clips on the outside of the FN141 to keep the shelf lined at all times. I have left it uncovered and just whiped it down daily but I have a feeling this is a big part of the problem.

As far as bedding goes I'm going to use some old rags and pick up some of that soft fiber at the pet store - kinda looks like stuffing.

I see a lot of cages with no litter - just fabric. How does this work? Are they changing the linens every day? It seems cheaper than buying big bags of litter but I don't have time to experiment. 

I'm really in a rush to get this fixed because the roomies say they gotta go. They won't let me keep my bedroom door open because they can smell it walking by the room.

Will a bleach/water solution work to clean the walls? I'm going to see if I can steam-clean the carpet tomorrow night after work as well. 

Thanks for the help! I look forward to hearing what you all have to say.

I have attached a pic of one of the boys to show you why I can't part with them.


----------



## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

I have my cage lined and my crew is litter trained. I use flannel instead of fleace, but you do need a few layers. Sounds to me like your smelly rat problem may be diet and bad bedding.

Order some HT blocks online, seed mixes are BAD! Then I would change their bedding to either fleece, flannel, old towels (found at goodwill for dirt cheap because they will tear them up), things like this make good lining for the cage and it absorbs WAY more than newspaper. Bi-odor doesn't seem to help my boys at all, it kind of works for a few weeks, then they are back to being stinky again. 

That soft fiber stuff your talking about is carefresh and it isn't going to help with your stink situation at all. Because you have a FN cage you can't really line it with bedding unless you make chloroplast floors and sides so the bedding doesn't come out. If you do have an edge around your cage floor then I would suggest yesterdays news bedding or sunseed fresh world bedding. Both recycled newspaper, condensed and it helps alot with the smell!! 

Your best bet though is get a few old towels, line 2 layers on the bottom of the cage, 2 layers on the shelves and if you want some cheap hammocks while your at goodwill or salvation army you can grab some old little kids sweatshirts, pants, ect. and use them for hammocks, it's a nice cheap alternative. Also, it you change the fabric twice a week this helps alot! MUCH better than what your currently doing.


----------



## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

Thanks Steph. I have created a 4 inch wooden panel running along the exterior of the cage. This allows for minimal amounts of litter to fall through but I've come to terms with it. Its rarely more than 2-10 pieces. 

I did not know seed mixes were bad. I feel bad, I have been doing them a dis-service for 2.5 years now. I will get this fixed tomorrow. 

But why are the seed mixes bad and why are they lining the shelves of pertsmart?

Thanks for the heads up on Goodwill. Its on the way home from work. 

Can't thank you guys enough for all the advice. I'll keep this updated so you can see the effects of your time and help. Thank you.

Edit: Steph I use CareFresh now, the white kind. Overpriced. I meant the soft fiber balls that come w/ some of the small houses meant for nesting. I need to find something for them because they love to create huge nesting balls in their dome. My girlfriend is going to work on some hammocks this weekend as well.


----------



## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

weezy said:


> I meant the soft fiber balls that come w/ some of the small houses meant for nesting. I need to find something for them because they love to create huge nesting balls in their dome.


If you are referring to the cotton wool type fluffy bedding, that isn't really suitable for rats. 



> You should not use anything fluffy and cotton-wool-like, as this can get caught around toes or swallowed and choked on, no matter how warm and snugly it may appear.


Here is a link that lists some safe bedding for nesting options  
http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/information/guides.php?subject=bedding


----------



## javakittie (Aug 18, 2007)

They can nest with scraps of fleece, too. I've seen many accomplished nest builders make some really interesting fleece nests. Bonus is that you can change it every couple of days and wash it, pop it back into the cage. The little fluff balls are made of small strings which is a danger for *any* small animal. Legs, toes, even necks can get tangled in the strings and serious injury or even death can occur.

Everyone else has pretty much covered everything.. But when was the last time you scrubbed the cage itself? Like taken the shelf and pans out, and given the whole thing a good scrub with soapy water. Pee/poop gets into the cracks and crevices, under pans, etc.. This will cause even a freshly cleaned cage to smell awful, because there's still old pee on there.

Also, the wood panels you're using may be adding to your problem. Wood absorbs the urine, and there is no cleaning it. Even treated, polyurethaned wood will smell awful within a matter of days to weeks if even the smallest drop of urine gets to the wood.

Seed mixes are bad because commercially available seed mixes are not suitable for rats. This may be causing some of your problem, too, and why the Bi-Odor isn't working at all. The mix has alot of things that are just plain fattening, dried corn which can harbor mold/bacteria and just isn't really something that most animals don't digest well, and some mixes contain alfalfa which is completely useless to a rat.


----------



## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

Thanks JK. What would you recommend to use as a guard/liner to keep the litter from falling out?


----------



## javakittie (Aug 18, 2007)

Most people use corplast or plexiglass cut to size. It's plastic, so it won't absorb the smell, you can scrub/disinfect them, and in the case of corplast it's cheap enough to replace often if needed. You just fit them around the outside of the pan.

There are a couple of companies that advertise a deeper pan for the FN, made of metal, but it's galvanized metal and so totally won't help your problem with funkiness.


----------



## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

hey guys - the wood doesn't have any odor so i have left it in tact (for now). i scrubbed down the cage, cleaned the surrounding carpet and scrubbed the walls. 

i have thrown out most of their toys and hanging tubes (except the pvc ones - easy to clean and have no odor).

the cage is fairly bare right now, but i have towels lining the bottom pan and the top level. i'm going to hold off on using the big bag of Aspen i bought tonight. i placed some in their litter box and i want to see if they will start to use it more strictly.

the room smells good, the cage smells good, the rats smell good. my girlfriend is coming over tomorrow to build some hammocks from scraps and we're going to scrounge good-will for some goods. 

i have also dropped some cash at the grocery store - went ahead and stock up on grapes, carrots, whole grain bread, frozen vegetables and fresh vegetables. i will also be supplementing with household food - everyone has agreed that its cool to share some with the boys.

i just want to thank you all again for taking the time to help me. you don't know how much of a relief this is to finally feel like i have control of the situation. as far as long-term results go i am not counting on success but i feel as if i'm headed in the right direction and that if i keep using this forum and its knowledge then i will know that i'm doing my best.

again, food - how do you all feel about shelled peanuts (unsalted and roasted)? a good snack? what about granola? found some big boxes that got banged up and were being sold for a dollar.

thanks!

edit: JK thanks for the heads up on the danger of strings. instead i have used some old cut up towels. might toss in a t-shirt.


----------



## javakittie (Aug 18, 2007)

Towels can pose the same danger. Just keep an eye on them, make sure there are no frayed edges. If your girlfriend sews, you could ask her to finish the edges for you? Otherwise, using old t shirts would be easier overall. They don't fray and you just have to pick up the odd string here or there.

For long term success! You need to scrub the cage down every few weeks. I line my shelves with lino/corplast and use liners, and I can get away with not scrubbing the whole cage for about 2mo. In not so amazingly perfect circumstances, you should try and do it once a month or so.

You'll need to change the fabrics out every 2-3 days. This goes for hammocks, too. I change my litter pans out when I change the fabrics. When I take the fabric out, I use a damp washcloth and a 50/50 vinegar solution to wipe the shelves and base down. Gets up the pee that made it past the liner, lab block crumbs, etc.. Vinegar is a great disinfectant and deodorizer, too.

I think if you can manage those, it'll keep the smell down to a minimum.. With the fresh foods, since I believe you don't supplement often, take it slow for the first few days. Too much fruit/veggies can make them have some truly nasty soft poo.

ETA : Unsalted roasted peanuts are fine as a once in a while treat. It's mostly fat and protein, which isn't good for an every day treat. Leave the shell on for even more fun. Granola is okay, so long as it doesn't have added sugar or anything.


----------



## weezy (Jul 28, 2008)

Cage smells good and the room smells good. Gave the rats a warm bath yesterday after taking them on a picnic. 

Still throwing a tiny amount of the seed mix in to try and keep the droppings from turning soft.

But most importantly the other inhabitants of my house are happy.


----------

