# Some pictures! Er, lots of pictures!



## riotfox (Apr 16, 2010)

heres some photos, and a video of my girlies . Sorry there are so many, hope you enjoy them!

dolly:


















































cheddar:


































little miss fast (yep, she has come out of the cage last few days, after a week of not even being interested whatsoever i am proud of her ):









































http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVPKaJbVOVU


----------



## catsandscales (Oct 21, 2010)

Awww, I love the video!! So cute to see them running around!


----------



## catsandscales (Oct 21, 2010)

Now you've got me on a rat video kick. XD


----------



## Alethea (Jul 14, 2010)

Daw, I love that she just stays under the bed like that. :3


----------



## riotfox (Apr 16, 2010)

aw thanks guys!


----------



## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

Be aware that those Rat Balls are VERY bad for rats, harmful to their backs, and lungs. And no rat should EVER use them.


----------



## riotfox (Apr 16, 2010)

i personally do not see how a short amount of time in the ball will seriously affect their lungs ???

as far as the back issue, the one in the picture is very large, much larger than any rat wheel ive ever seen. it doesnt cause her to arch her back more than the slightest bit, and if it is hurting her it is perfectly possible for her to stop running in it. 

i understand what you are saying but i just dont think that they are neccessarily harmful if used correctly


----------



## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Because rat pee contains strong ammonia fumes, and in the ball whenever they pee they step in it and inhale the ammonia over and over again. It also promotes a very unhealthy stance considering rats have curved spines.


----------



## catsandscales (Oct 21, 2010)

Just my two cents... this seems like a situation where it depends on the rat. RiotFox's rats seem to enjoy the ball. Just because the average rat gets confused by it doesn't mean the ball should be banned. Also, the argument that it hurts their backs doesn't add up to me because I see the Wodent Wheel used and recommended all the time, which appears to have the same dimensions as the ball RiotFox uses.

I understand that there are definite guidelines and rules to the proper care and keeping of rats. But one thing I've found on this forum in particular (not pointing any fingers or mentioning any names) is that some people seem to feel very strongly that their method or system is the ONLY way and they aren't afraid to let everyone know that they believe every other option is completely bogus. Don't get me wrong, I'm not preaching tolerance for bad methods. But there is something to be said about informing each other in a graceful and caring way... people are generally more receptive to one's advice if they feel respected.

</rant on how to get along>


----------



## riotfox (Apr 16, 2010)

oh ok, thanks for explaining . i suppose its lucky that they have bever releived themselves in the ball then . 

i hope you guys do not hate me for still choosing to use it, however :-\. i cannot, unfortunately, set up a pen and it is too dangerous for them to run around the house withou proper supervision. they still get real running time (in fact they are right this second) and whenever i can i let them hang out with me while i have to be doing other things. the fact that they continuously choose to go in it does tend to indicate that they are not too uncomfortable and that they prefer it to caged time. i also dont see how wheels are fine, but a ball which is larger than a wheel (over half the height of their cage and 106 cm around) would be so much worse. 

thanks catsandscales (you ninja'd my post lol!).


----------



## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Kiko and I are the only people who posted, I don't feel anything in either of our posts was mean or disrespectful. Balls are actually rounder than wheels, meaning rat has to reach higher with each step - curving their spine in the opposite direction it was built to go. I personally don't agree with wheels at all either, because even though they are not as bad, its still not the best for their spines. I have a girl that was surrendered to me and she loves her wheel, so she gets it for a very short period per day. She carries herself differently than all her siblings and her tail curls onto her back like a pug. Even though shes healthy, from all the excersize - if I can see a visible difference posture wise thats enough to tell me they are no good.


----------



## riotfox (Apr 16, 2010)

wow, are you sure it is the wheel and not an underlying problem? its weird that 15 or less minutes of bad posture a day would alter her spine by that much! i dont think ive ever heard of that happening to humans . not that i am implying whatsoever that i dont beleive you  as im not doubting that its true but it just seems strange is all...


----------



## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

i would imagine because of the extra weight and ventilation holes and such in the balls that the rat would have to reach higher and exert more force to move the ball than a wheel.

i have seen "wheel tail" in quite a few rats, although i've never personally heard of or seen any actual spinal deformations in rats that use a wheel excessively. as far as i know wheel tail isn't actually a spinal thing and is more of a muscular thing... they just get accustomed to packing it up and it goes back to normal if you take it away or lessen their time on it.










that was luna's tail from an hour or so of an 11" wheel time twice a day. there were no other signs of any sort of spinal curving or any discomfort.


----------



## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

The different stance and curly tail is just from their posture while running on a wheel, the muscles get toned in that one position. From my experience it takes a really long time for it to go back to normal. It causes no problems for the rat, but I personally don't find it natural nor think it would be beneficial, esp as the rat gets older. Luna is in no pain or discomfort and enjoys her wheel - but its very limited!


----------



## blenderpie (Sep 10, 2009)

Just because there are no deformations, doesn't mean that it's not good for the spine. For instance, in humans there are plenty of activities that are known to cause spinal misalignment (football, martial arts, dancing) and while the spines don't look any different from the outside, chiropractors would be able to tell instantly what was wrong and how to fix it. 
I don't use a wheel or a ball (though the foster home where my new babies came from had a wheel) simply because I feel like they burn off a lot of that energy during playtime. 
And, no offence, "not being able to set up a playpen" is a poor excuse. Regardless of my opinions on balls, there needs to be a safe place for your babies to play where they can't get into anything that can harm them. It doesn't need to be elaborate or even always there in the room. I can trust my adult male to stay and play with his toys on the couch (he mostly just wants a cuddle when he's out for playtime) but the babies I can't. I bought the poster boards that fold out in three sections (I don't know what they're called, but they're with all of the school supplies) and binder clipped them together in a circle (you have to clip both the top and the bottom) and threw a fleece blanket I bought at jo anne's for like 3 bucks on the ground to cover the carpet, since I rent. The entire pen cost me roughly ten dollars and takes five minutes to set up. It folds up quickly thinly, I store mine behind the couch.

That being said, your girls are adorable. I saw your video of them with the paper towel roll apple piniata, too cute!


----------



## riotfox (Apr 16, 2010)

blenderpie said:


> no offence, "not being able to set up a playpen" is a poor excuse. Regardless of my opinions on balls,
> 
> That being said, your girls are adorable. I saw your video of them with the paper towel roll apple piniata, too cute!


first of all, thanks . and if i ever do see wheel tail, etc, i will definitely stop using the ball. that being said i dont intend to carry on responding to the ball dabate anymore, altgough you guys are still welcome to 

i just wanted to say that i was not using "not being able to set up a playpen" as an excuse for anything. i dont think that using a ball is something you necessarily need an "excuse" to do, its just something they enjoy sometimes. i was just saying that it isnt really an option for me, not that i use the ball BECAUSE i dont have a playpen, if that makes sense?  they definitely do get time out of cage to run around the house, an hour supervised a day, plus they come sit with me whenever possible. even if i did have a pen, i would still offer the ball sometimes because as they say, variety is the spice of life and its just one more option for them. personally although i think a pen is good, i dont think it is a neccessity because unless it is quite large it isnt all that different than a cage :-/.


----------



## blenderpie (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm glad they still get out time c: That's all I cared about, sorry if I came off as rude. Your girls seem so great and I wish them the best. And I'm glad that you really love them and care about them.


----------



## riotfox (Apr 16, 2010)

oh, no, not a problem . it is great that there are still people like you around the internet, that actually care whether they are rude or not. i dont think it was rude


----------



## blenderpie (Sep 10, 2009)

haha I'm glad you don't think I was rude. c: We need more pictures!


----------

