# When Advice Is Not Advice



## Perocore

Okay, sorry to rant, but I am very agitated by this.

When someone posts on a forum asking- begging- for medical advice for an animal, it is understandable that the response would be; "Take it to a vet." But when that person explicitly states; "I can not afford to take it to a vet right now because I've recently had some unexpected medical issues come up, and have to take care of myself first," your response should not be to make them feel like an abusive, horrible person. So your response might be, "well, if they couldn't afford to take the animal to the vet, they shouldn't have gotten it in the first place!" Yes, yes, very true. But notice they said; "unexpected medical issues?" That means that, chances are, when they first got that animal they _could afford_ to bring it to the vet, but something _unexpected_ came up, which rendered them unable to afford vet care. So you might say; "Well if they can no longer afford it, they should rehome it!" Also correct- but what if they are in the process of rehoming, but due to the high number of those animals currently being rehomed, have not yet been able to find a home for that animal?

With all of this in mind, continuously telling them; "bring it to a vet." does not help. It makes them feel worse because they want to do right by this animal, but they're incapable because they have severe medical issues come up and can't exactly take care of the animal if they, themselves, are ailing because they decided to drop $1,000+ on the animal, and could not afford their own medication, then. 

The better option would be to give them real advice, tell them what you know, inform them that you aren't an expert and it may not work, but still try to help them. If you have no advice, then don't post some rude, hurtful message about how they're cruel to even have this animal if they can't, right at that moment, afford to take it to a vet.

Ugh. Okay, rant over. And in case you'r wondering, the animal mentioned is perfectly fine at the moment and doesn't even need vet care, we just had to use past knowledge of rescuing wildlife to help it out, and it should be fully recovered soon.


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## Jessiferatu

Yeah, I never understand "shouldn't have" as a response. Focusing on what someone should or shouldn't have done in no way solves the problem at hand, since it's in the past. What's done is done. Stating the obvious like that is pretty much the equivalent of wagging your finger in someone's face, it's a passive-aggressive way of exuding moral superiority. It's ridiculous.


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## darkiss4428

i always recommend this a vet and explaining things, most vets can give free over the phone professional advice
also some vets will look at animals for free in thd right situation or work payment plans


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## Zabora

I can agree and disagree with this for several reasons. Someone asked on goosemoose about supplementing their rat blocks with other items like chicken and peas and salads and whatnot and what people recommended. Some of the responses were to just switch the food and throw out the 20 pound bag they had left. So Yes I can agree that that post didnt help but it was in no way incorrect if your rats food is that bad that you need to add that many things to it it probably wasnt the best buy you made. However, with medical issues well, were not vets. We could be wrong. Take loose stools for example. Could be that you gave them too many helpings of fruit or veggies. Or it could be something else entirely. A vet will be able to look at them run tests and call upon their knowledge in order to make a guess as to what the issue is. Something we cant do. So I always recommend a vet and give a general thought as to what I believe the issue is and how to correct it. With animals like rats it is difficult to say what can and cant wait. With URI's a rat can die before you have time to take them to the car let alone a vet, or they could be fine for weeks on end with just a bit of sneezing. It is always always a good idea to keep a vet fund for them and not touch it for any reason. If a medical emergency came up for you, most hospitals have payment plans that can be as low as $25 per month. You can also have one of those animal vet credit cards that only work for them and have no interest if you pay it off in the first 6 months.


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## gotchea

I always kind of feel people on forums are quick to say "rehome your rat." I honestly wouldn't really tell anyone to rehome their pet. It's kind of like walking up to a mom and saying they are an unfit parent. Which sometimes might be true, but it's not our really our place say. I think there are too many rats without homes that I prefer a rat that dies from a sickness in a loved home, than living a long healthy life at the shelter. Or bouncing from home to home. Honestly, some people just won't pay x amount of dollars for their pet. I can't justify telling someone thinking that way is wrong. Just because I don't think that way, doesn't make me wrong or them wrong. Just two different people who view pets different.


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## ksaxton

I've been thinking about this a lot too. I think we tend to lump irresponsible owners and good owners who find themselves in a bad situation in the same category. While yes, there are some serious morons out there (one time I saw this girl who's dog most likely had parvo and needed a vet, she asked for advice and when told to go to a vet literally said "I don't know how a vet works I don't have money.") those are the people who shouldn't own pets at all. But then there are those who are good owners, who try their best to keep a vet fund and go to great lengths to help their pets, and yet unfortunately UNEXPECTED things do happen, that's life. So then the good owner finds themselves having to admit "I can't afford a vet right now" and immediately everyone pegs them as the bad owner mentioned above, the person who is irresponsible and doesn't care about their pets needs. When actually the good owners would give anything to help their pet, it's just not possible, they're out of options and nowhere to turn. It would absolutely break my heart if my pet was sick and needed a vet and I couldn't afford it. And it would make things even worse for people to keep reiterating what I already know and feel. I already feel crappy about it, so why do people feel the need to keep kicking me over and over about it? And I don't agree with rehoming pets either. What's to say that the person you rehome your pets to doesn't have some sort of unexpected crisis in the future too and can't afford vet care? Crappy things happen to everyone, regardless of who they are or what their situation is. So while you're down on your luck and someone else is doing great, what's to say the tables won't turn? Then the rats are once again in the situation you tried to save them from. But yeah, there are times when only a vet knows what to do and forum members don't have any advice. But if you don't have any advice to offer, either give your sympathies or don't say anything at all if it's just to bring that person down. If you're in need of vet money I don't have a problem with people setting up funding sites AS LONG as they have something small to offer the donators (like a drawing of their rats, a keychain, bracelet, whatever you are good at making) just as a small gesture of appreciation since I personally don't like that feeling that my money is just dropping into the void.


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## Tesumph

Hah, I just ranted about this in the forums today. I don't have much else to add, other than that it pisses me off when people go to the health section of a rat forum just to tell multiple people asking for help to go to a vet. CLEARLY the person is aware that their rat is sick, that's why they posted.


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## Zabora

Tesumph said:


> Hah, I just ranted about this in the forums today. I don't have much else to add, other than that it pisses me off when people go to the health section of a rat forum just to tell multiple people asking for help to go to a vet. CLEARLY the person is aware that their rat is sick, that's why they posted.


 But yet again were not vets. We can only guess as to what it is. And if the rat is sick and needs medicine than how are we to help then? We cant give them meds so while I do understand this I still always say vet.


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## Isamurat

I dont think theres any real benefit in soley saying "take your rat to the vet" but often you can only do so much yourself, and advising someone when you cant see the rat is very tough. I tend to try and give several options in my responses, but i do also try and emphasise the importance of getting them to the vet in serious cases. Sometimes people who post about that would somehow find the money if they knew there rat had a real chance of dieing without vetinary attention and getting better with it. Also in some countrys its not possible to get proper meds without seeing a vet (e.g. here in the UK antibioitcs are pretty much all perscripiton only) and there arent any other good options. Saying that i also am not the kind of person who would rush a sneezing rat to the vets when they dont seem or act unwell. 

I think there really is a balance to be found here, and if you have a rat who will probably die without vetinary attention which could save it, then i honestly think rehoming is one of the bravest and most reponsible thing an owner can do. Its not just about vets either, if you cant give your rat company and a good qualtiy of life then i also think rehoming is the best option and i dont think we should avoid discussing it, everyone has there limits but sometimes they need support and to know it doesnt mean they are an awful pet owner to consider it. I say this as someone who once had to rehome my rabbits after months of fighting a health problem (with my vet in tow) after narrowing the issue down to my garden being gravelled (the alternative was leaivng them hutch / run bound for 5 days a week). Yes i could have dug up all the gravel and replaced it with turf and it would have helped her but i didnt have the resources or time to do it (it was an awful lot of gravel). I still feel like i let them down but i dont regret the decision, seeing my rabbits running around the orchard they moved to was amazing, so much better than i could ahve given them. At the end of the day in my head the animals come first, not your feelings as an owner.


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## sarah424

It was a real struggle for me to be able to afford vet treatment at first when my pit started to have seizures when she was only 7 months old. I won't lie at first beyond just a vet visit to make sure that overall she was ok all I did was treat her at home by staying with her during the seizures, giving her a spoonful of ice cream afterward to bring her blood sugar up, and help her through her post-ictal phase. My boyfriend had just gotten a new job after being unemployed for a very long time and hadn't even gotten his first check so for about a month I did all I could at home. 

I took a lot of criticism over that and maybe rightfully so... but before I got her at 14 weeks she had been through 3 homes and I couldn't bear to rehome her. It even got to a point where I was being pressured by other people to put her down instead of making her suffer through more seizures. After I was finally able to afford medicine for that, we found out she was born incontinent and that was the reason we couldn't housebreak her. After that, it was allergies so severe that her face swelled up like a balloon and if we hadn't rushed her to the vet she could have died! But we got through all of it and I was able to afford her medication and at the end of this month we will be celebrating 1 whole year seizure free for Xena  The point of my enormous post is that I agree, sometimes people go through hard times and when emergencies happen sometimes you have to do what you can with what you have, and then to the vet the second you are able to.


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## EmilyGPK

I don't think it is a straightforward issue one way or the other. If the animals is suffering, and non-professional options will not relieve that suffering, that is something the owner needs to face no matter how distressing that might be to them. I would just hope people would phrase it as non-judgmentally as possible.


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## nanashi7

Here's my input. I'm currently unemployed and working through personal health problems. I have five birds, twelve rats and am now caring for three dogs. 

Not a single animal in my house will go without seeing a vet if it's necessary. I will ask experienced people HOW necessary they view it because I would sort of mind paying for a clean bill of health. 

I will sell stuff, pawn stuff, beg for money, clean houses, or use my credit card to pay for it. 

Anyone who has a pet who needs medical care needs to either provide it or provide the means to allow someone else to. To do less is cruel. I commend the poster who relinquished ownership of their rat due to the rat needing life saving surgery they couldn't afford. The rat was adopted to a vet tech who did pay it and it was the absolutely best thing that person could have done. 

I will flat out say I am sick and tired of reading the slow, agonizing deaths of animals in need of care whose owners will not provide. If I could reach through the computer I would strangle each IDIOT who gives EXCUSES for the inhumane death their pet suffered. Even if you can't afford the $200 surgery you sure as he'll better find a way to afford the $40 euthanization.


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## Tesumph

Maybe it's because I was raised in a penny pinching household who's parents only took you to the doctor if you could no longer function. Don't get me wrong, vets are wonderful and very much needed if the condition is even remotely life threatening. But if it's something that you know is recurring, or can go away with some "home remedies," I don't see the need for panic. As an example, one of my golden retrievers suffers from allergies, and as a result gets hotspots (inflamed yeast infections that itch terribly) at least twice a year. Last year he got one that stretched from his ear to the middle of his chest. Overnight, he scratched it so much that it had become about a foot long and was bleeding everywhere. To an outsider I'm sure it looked like he had been hit by a car, but I'm pretty used to his flare ups and I had it controlled within two days using ice, a cone, and a refill of his medication. On the other hand, he once got bit by a gopher above his eye, and over two days it swelled so much that his eyebrow filled up with fluid, squishing his eye shut. I can recognize when something is out of my league, and I took him to the vet because it was right next to his eye and Benadryl had no effect. There's no black and white situation where a vet is called for, but if you have an ounce of common sense (which most don't) then I would expect you could tell the difference in the severity of a lethargic 2 month old rat wheezing with puffed out fur vs a healthy adult who developed a limp overnight.


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## gotchea

nanashi7 said:


> Here's my input. I'm currently unemployed and working through personal health problems. I have five birds, twelve rats and am now caring for three dogs. Not a single animal in my house will go without seeing a vet if it's necessary. I will ask experienced people HOW necessary they view it because I would sort of mind paying for a clean bill of health. I will sell stuff, pawn stuff, beg for money, clean houses, or use my credit card to pay for it. Anyone who has a pet who needs medical care needs to either provide it or provide the means to allow someone else to. To do less is cruel. I commend the poster who relinquished ownership of their rat due to the rat needing life saving surgery they couldn't afford. The rat was adopted to a vet tech who did pay it and it was the absolutely best thing that person could have done. I will flat out say I am sick and tired of reading the slow, agonizing deaths of animals in need of care whose owners will not provide. If I could reach through the computer I would strangle each IDIOT who gives EXCUSES for the inhumane death their pet suffered. Even if you can't afford the $200 surgery you sure as he'll better find a way to afford the $40 euthanization.


 it cost me 250 to put down my rat and she couldn't even move anymore. -_-


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## MissSix

If someone is going to say "take them to the vet" for someone who cannot readily afford it, then the next line should come with some suggestions to help them afford it. I have personally donated money to friends and strangers to help them afford vet care. I have offered art commissions so help them pay for medication and surgery, because in the end I want that animal to be taken care of, I'm not going to just sit there and say over and over again "go to a vet" when they can't afford it.


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## webspinnr

Telling an owner that may not be aware a vet is a reasonable option I don't think anyone has a problem with. But really can anyone truly give me a reason telling someone that option when it's already been expressed as NOT an option is good for anyone? If someone can't, they cant. Yelling it at them over and over while failing to provide any backup advice is just frustrating for both sides. The owner clearly knows they need a vet and for whatever reason it's simply not possible right now. I don't see anyone saying that people that don't have access to a 24 hour emergency vet that treats rats shouldn't be rat parents. When someone needs help after hours we give make-do advice, not berate them for unavoidable circumstances. I don't see how unexpected expenses are any different.


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## Isamurat

i think theres a difference between yelling abd ranting at someone to get a rat to the vets (as justified as that might be) and making it clear how serious things are. A person might say the very isn't an option when they think none lifesaving surgery is required (which is expensive) but if a course of antibiotics could avoid there rat suffering and dieing which is much more affordable they may be able to fund that. Not mentioning it as an option (ideally alongside others where they exist) is dangerous for me. i think it encourages the idea that access to a vet isn't a very important part of pet ownership.


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## kksrats

Unfortunately, this is the internet, and being the internet, there's a lot of criticism going on that is in no way constructive. This forum tends to be a little better about it than others, but it's still there. If someone mentions that they're unable to afford a vet, jump in with options either for treatment or being able to pay for a vet trip. Vets are expensive, finding a vet that knows what they're doing with rats is difficult, and most of us have been burned by a vet that doesn't know what they're doing. You've got apprehension either way between your pet being sick and the possibility of a vet not helping (even if you can afford it). Yes, some people buy pets that they can't afford because they didn't look into the costs when they bought them, but most of the time it just comes down to circumstances at the time; we all know that once one thing goes wrong, something else is sure to follow just to confound the situation even further. If you don't have anything constructive to say, then just don't say anything.


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## Zabora

But we cant condemn every person who says go to a vet at the same time. I am no medical professional. I cook for a living. Nutrition I got down  I guess it comes down the owner to judge when they should or shouldnt go to a vet. Rat has sniffles but isnt wheezing, knows antibiotics are needed, puts it off for 3 days, rat is fine. But there there are the extreme cases, Rat is wheezing and is 4 months old, twitching uncontrollably, flopping around, lethargic, obviously needs medical attention now. For someone to ignore this instead of begging family and friends for $ for a vet is just irresponsible and needs a smack across the back of the head. There are always options even then if you are broke. The vet credit card thing that has been mentioned before can be approved in as little as 20 minutes.


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## kksrats

These are the things I'm talking about. Mention more than just "go to the vet" and you're already on the right track.


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## PawsandClaws

I have to say that I agree with nanashi. The problem is that too many people come onto the forums expecting miracle home remedies for their pets life-threatening illnesses. No, you cannot just give your rat some honey as it enters respiratory distress! Furthermore these people are often extremely angry that the stranger on the internet cannot think of some magic, free solution for all their issues. I cannot empathize with someone if all they have given me is 'My rat is seriously ill with x and I can't afford a vet. What is a home remedy for this?' Nobody talks about how they have exhausting all possible solutions for giving their animal the vet care they clearly need and they try so very hard to convince themselves it is nothing. It would be much easier to sympathize with someone's situation if they explained first all the steps they have taken to raise money for a vet. Inevitably those people never come back to update and we can all guess at what the consequences of trying to remedy at home were.

The truth is that there are way too many people not willing/not able to dish out hundreds of dollars on their animals health care when it is something that is of utmost importance in their responsibility as a pet owner. Every single day there is a thread on here and every other forum I am a member of where someone is asking for home remedies for a serious ailment. I am so sick and tired of it.

In short, I do not have a problem with someone coming here if they are open to ways of making enough money for a vet when a home remedy is not an option and I have and would happily aid those people with ideas. My issue comes when people have this misconception that us amateur, non-vets are going to be able to save their rat with some simple cure. We certainly can help and throw around ideas but at the end of the day, if it is serious enough to be distressing to you, you know you need to figure out how to come up with enough money for professional help and medications. The forum is great for getting second opinions or advice on small issues but it is really unreasonable to think it is the solution to all your rat's health problems. It is also extremely irresponsible, no matter which way you spin it, to seek serious health care advice from strangers when it so darn evident that you have not done any independent research beforehand or even made an attempt to get in touch with your vet about it.

I know this does not apply to everyone and some people really have run into some unexpected complications that have depleted their vet fund and left them in a dire situation but I would say the amount of people who really have done everything possible i.e. sold valuables, worked double shifts and made every attempt to raise enough money does not even comprise a small portion of the people seeking home remedies online for severe URI's, injuries, disease etc. So be as angry as you want at me, I will continue to tell people who say they cannot afford it to figure out a way to see a vet when their rat is clearly suffering. It is their responsibility and they need to make it happen. I am tired of people just making their rat 'comfortable' while it dies of something that could have been treated.


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## Zabora

Thank you pawsandclaws. Thats exactly how I feel.


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## dakotah999

one thing people with limited money could try would be asking the vet clinic if they need any extra work like cleaning, errands, dog walking etc. try to work at least the cost for appointment off. Im an intern at one and now i just have to pay the price of medicine/shots. its awesome!! Saves me so much money  Animal people tend to be nice people, so go ahead and ask


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