# porphyrin in just one eye?



## Andyurgay (Jun 10, 2013)

One of my litter feeder bin boys has had quite a bit of porphyrin discharge of out just one eye the last couple of days. His other eye and nose are clear. I don't see any scratches or gunk on the eye. His eye has just been lined in porphyrin for the last two- three days. It's hard to see if he is cleaning it off regularly because he is still the most skittish and would rather hide than anything. I've had rats for a long while now and I've never seen porphyrin on any until this little guy so I'm not so how much is too much, and why it would only be around one eye? I keep their part of the DFC super clean because I worry about their immune systems as they were feeders and only now on a good diet and clean environment. Is there a reason only one eye would have a porphyrin build up?

His twin seems perfectly healthy besides a sneeze here and there and the healed broken tail.


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## Andyurgay (Jun 10, 2013)

pictures


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## pip367622 (Feb 24, 2014)

_Hi there, 

One of our Dumbo males, ruby eyed white mix markings, but does not head weave, he has one eye stained too with what we believe is red stained porphyrin eye these past two days, he only gets it when he has been sleeping, and washes it off too, and eating, madly dashing about and normal behaviour and seems bright eyed and same mad young self apart from that? 

We have not changed food, or bought any different bedding? at all, and keep a clean and tidy cage, on a daily basis, but he is our alpha dominant male of the two, and they do tend to groom madly, play fight, scuff, then groom each other madly, and they as normal stand all over each other in their hammock and beds, so maybe a claw got on his eye, but cannot visibly see any damage, but it does not seem to bother him, nor has he sniffles or appears unwell, or wheezy, will keep an eye (excuse the pun) will check this thread for updates too, as same applies to me then with our one eyed porphyrin rattie, he does not seem stressed though either, and loves to come out for free roaming daily, just seems to appear more after he has had a longer sleep?

What does everyone think? advice and thoughts gratefully accepted. Thanks. 

ps)Ah thinking on it, we did move the cage from one room to another but back again now in the last two days? maybe it was that? hmmmm_


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## Juliah456 (Mar 12, 2014)

My girls are currently dealing with myco flare ups they had when I adopted them from somebody on kijiji Anyways, they showed no signs of myco besides sneezing porphoryn. They groomed, ate, drank, and ran around like crazy rats. Took them in to the vet to be sure, and I'm glad I did  @ anduurgay : one of mine had porphoryn on only one eye as well, it doesn't have to be on both to be a sign. Is he sneezing more than normal / several times a day? If so I'd definitely get hi check up on. Even if no it might be best. @ pip367622 that's strange O: I wonder if moving rooms could do it. Hope you find out  Just as a note, my girls only had porphoryn as a symptom, apparently they don't always show many signs at all.


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## Andyurgay (Jun 10, 2013)

I took Ozzy into the vet yesterday since he was dealing with some pretty intense porphyrin build up on his nose when I woke up. Everything checked out, he just had some noises coming from his right lung so both twins were put on an antibiotic for the next three weeks. I'm just worried because they were given one that could affect growth in rats their age and this morning Ozzy seems to be a bit listless and weak. Unfortunately the bill from yesterday ($87) striped all the cash I had so I have to wait until Friday to get him back in.


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## pip367622 (Feb 24, 2014)

Positive update - our ruby eyed rat Possum's eye seems normal and cleared up over the weekend, showed no ill effects, just seemed to be like it after a long sleep, no sneezes or wheezing that I could hear, and moved the cage back to original place and not sure if coincidence but his red one eyed pirate patch stain now stopped for past day and a half. Will keep monitoring him carefully, emailed our local vet over the weekend, trying to see if we can register, as the Pets at Home, do have an in store vet, but it's not so near. Thanks for replies. Hope posters rats eye better too? X Pip


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## Leraine (Feb 21, 2014)

According to this: http://www.afrma.org/med_eyeandnose.htm
"The most common problems we have heard of with one eye having a discharge, is an infection or plugged tear duct. I really recommend a trip to a vet to determine what the cause is and the best possible solution. Most use an antibiotic ointment with steroids to clear up these types of problems. Being a 2-year-old rat, age could also be a cause of the problem, but the fact he is also losing his sight sounds like something more."




But in general, red discharge from the eye:
"An increase in tear secretions can be due to stress, illness, allergies, lesions of the eye, tumor of the tear duct, or a plugged nasal-lacrimal duct. Under normal circumstances, most rats do not have a nasal discharge, although Dr. Booth has seen many older disease free rats that frequently have a slight eye discharge."




Stress can be due to things like bathing, (as you said) moving the cage. Allergies can be due to dust in bedding or type of bedding, perfumes or dyes in detergents used to wash fleece/cloth in the cage, or perhaps things in the environment. You mentioned you just moved the cage. Perhaps there's allergens near the new cage spot? Or maybe something about that new cage location is stressful - Is it drafty? Too sunny? Noisy? Have there been changes to their diet? Or maybe changes in social structure of the pack. Did you introduce new rats? Did you get new animals that may be stressing them out, like a cat or a dog? Have the rats been fighting more recently? Are there new toys in the cage that the rat may have injured his eye with?




Some more useful info from http://www.ratbehavior.org/porphyrin.htm#Overproduction include:
"The porphyrin-filled tears overflow the eye and dry on and around the eyelids, forming a dark red crust, a condition called chromodacryorrhea."
"Rats overproduce porphyrin when they are stressed, ill, or poorly fed. Acute stress, such as limb restraint (Harkness and Ridgeway 1980), sleep deprivation (Hipolide and Tufik 1995), water deprivation (Figge and Atkinson 1945, but see Harkness and Ridgeway 1980), joint pain (Harper et al.2001, Kerins et al. 2003), morphine withdrawal (Buccafusco 1990), acetylcholine injections (Harkness and Ridgeway 1980), and exposure to electric fields (Rommereim et al. 1990) have been found to cause chromodacryorrhea."
The page also lists some diseases associated with this discharge.


If it can't be any of the things I suggested above, it may be a good idea to take note of which eye it occurs in, and if it is the same eye each time, That may be indicative of some sort of eye injury, eye infection, or plugged tear duct.


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## Andyurgay (Jun 10, 2013)

I'm glad your rattie has cleared up  just keep an eye on her for a little while to make sure it does not reoccur. 



as for my boy, I took this twin to the vet the day after posting this because I woke up to him being caked in porphyrin while the one pictured, Scout, looked a bit better. I figured what ever it was, both had it. Ozzy was put on antibiotics for a noisy right lung but ended up passing away the next day. Scout seems to be doing well though. I put him on the same dose of antibiotics the same day as Ozzy so he will be on it twice a day for 3 weeks. My vet likes to be very through when it comes to myco and respiratory issues in rats. She has lots of experience with them and knows you need to continue meds beyond symptom relief. Which I agree with. His porphyrin has seemed to clear up. I heard some clucking and clicking from him the night Ozzy died but since then he seemed fine. I've made him a mush food of ground up adult Oxbow, freeze dried natural chicken, some grits, a bit of dark chocolate (80%), and some garlic for immune support. I made it a mush so I could add the extra water to his diet since I wasn't sure if he was drinking enough, plus it seemed to encourage him to eat more. He always picked the chicken out of the oxbow (of course) but he finished an entire bowl of it today and seems perky so I think he will make it  fingers crossed!


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## pip367622 (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi again. Clear fr a few days then one eyed flared up after long sleep, he cleaned it right off, with no ill effects, and his bed fellow rattie Shadow was washing his eye today, he is still eating, drinking and running about like a mad thing, all appears normal, but have taken on board all comments and suggestions (Thank you every one for your advice and links) awaiting for a email and registration back from an exotics vet few miles away as our local one does not take on rats, but were really helpful in suggesting a renowned vet who deals specifically with exotics. Will update when I know more. Still n wheezing, or sneezing, both appear well and just as per normal, Possum the ruby eyed mixed white, does have a slightly red nose sometimes, but only when he wakes, as he climbs out of bedding his ears and nose lighten, s maybe just warm, pale skin, no obvious porph staining, but one eye like a patch today, then gone a few minutes later after grooming and waking up and eating / pooing in his tray session. x


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## pip367622 (Feb 24, 2014)

Updates on one eye porphiryn, after I posted this cleared, and touch wood, all clear since. I did have a lava ledge in the cage, which I noticed Possum chewing on, from underneath, so maybe he got a little dust in it? Covered the ledge in an old sock, and no probs since? Maybe coincidence but all good here. Hope Andys rat is ok too -!the first poster who started the thread. ;-) Pip x


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