# Not Accidental, but I need advice.



## Mojojuju (Nov 15, 2014)

So I have not posted here earlier, because it is really a forum for oopsie litters. My litter was planned--a registered breeder three hours south of us gave us two does and a buck from her lines to breed six litters (she has the pick of them to continue her program, but we keep and home the others). There are no breeders in our area whatsoever, and much interest in our community for having one, so this was our compromise. I currently have a decent waiting list for her litters.

Our first young doe gave birth today--to two babies. 

I was REALLY surprised, as she looked like she was going to have at LEAST four or five. Maybe they didn't survive. But what worries me more is that maybe I interrupted her and she's going to stress and eat the survivors. (If that is indeed what they are.) 

See, I lined her cage with fleece, because I didn't want the babies tangled in threads and strangling, and because I have tons of extra chewed up fleece scraps. But a towel at some point got knocked off a shelf near her birthing cage today, and she went and pulled half of it in, shredded it, and had her pups in the midst of all that stringy cotton. *shakes fist* Jaina you little...!

I was worried, so I immediately had to move them (they already looked slightly tangled) and disturb the nest to do so. She kept moving them here and there, and eventually I frantically got the bad stuff removed and the towel detritus safely away from her, and she frantically had her nest moved to somewhere totally out of sight under wads of fleece. She didn't seem TOO stressed after she relocated them, as she popped up when I offered her a treat and she grabbed it happily.

So I guess what I want is someone to tell me I either did the right thing or the wrong thing, so that I don't repeat the mistake. I also wonder if it is possible for her to be so up and about if she is mid-labor, as I am really surprised that there are only two pups. 

*stressed out sigh*

???


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## Korra (Dec 11, 2011)

Honestly...people have all kinds of opinions on planned breedings. This is a forum that does not particularly like it. Have you asked the breeder for advice? You might be better off talking to them.


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## Mojojuju (Nov 15, 2014)

I emailed her. I suppose as I sat here fretting and waiting for her to read the email, I sought the experience of some of the folks here. I will remove the thread if I can. If not, will a moderator please assist me and remove it? Thank you.

Edit: Yeah, I can't edit it, perhaps it has been too long. Thanks in advance, moderator, for your assistance.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

you did well to get rid of the towel. However, next time put the rat into a one level cage and with only SAFE materials. Sometimes rats have small liters....I read that some rats who have small liters have vaginal Myco, so something to check for before breeding her again- just in case.


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## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

How old are your does? Sometimes young moms will have a very small first litter. I've seen a couple have just two, so it's not totally unusual. I tend to take a more hands off approach to what does are doing with their litter unless it's something that's obviously detrimental. They know what they're doing most of the time and interfering can be worse sometimes than just letting them do their thing. I'm a little surprised that the breeder didn't give you a little more direction and advice before beginning this little endeavor.


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## Mojojuju (Nov 15, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback. I didn't intend for the towel shreds to get into the cage, but I must have brushed past it and knocked it near her little cage (which is one level, and only had fleece in it) on my way out the door. It was close enough that she snagged it and pulled it shred by shred through her bars. (luckily it wasn't a good towel!)

The breeder did spend lots of time with me ensuring I was educated. I don't think I would have even asked her if we hadn't taken the time to make sure I was up to speed. I was just worried about the accidental access to the not-ideal nesting material and my rather hurried-worried response to it. 

The doe is 7 months old and this is her first litter. She is a bit petite, but is not a dwarf. I guess I was just surprised that there were only two, since everything I read and talked about with the breeder said that two was uncommon. I guess I was just helicopter parenting a little, worrying and looking for reassurance.

Anyhow, as of the first posting, everything seems fine, and the two healthy pups are squealing every time she leaves the nest to eat or beg me with her cute face for out time. They are in a quiet, warm area. So far, so good.

Anyhow, thanks again for calming my fears.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Small litters happen, in some cases the doe was meant to have a larger litter, and then reabsorbed one uterine horn, in other cases it might be a variety which is double leathal (such as Essex or pearl), in others it could be that she was a bit overweight with none baby weight, and this either made birth more difficult or fooled you into thinking she was having more than she did. The main thing now is to make sure the babies have a milk band each day as small litters can fail to stimulate mums milk enough for her to lactate. All being well she will be fine though (I've had a couple trios here).

In terms of floor covering, nesting mums do love to nest, and fleece really isn't the best for doing this. Whilst I wouldn't disturb her again (its good practice not to disturb there nest for the first week, though obviously in your case you had no choice) when you have future litters, or when you give her a clean out about a week try offering her lots of torn up kitchen roll and similar. It will let her nest properly.


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