# Rats and Cigarette Smoke?



## ilovemyfatcat

Hi! I'm 14 years old and for Christmas, I'll be asking for a couple of male rats. After I sell my 3DS I will have $370 to spend on the cage and the supplies, but wont have enough for the rats themselves (since I definitely want them from a breeder) which is why I thought they'd make a great Christmas present if I just ask for only the rats (since we'd have to also drive a good 2-3 hours to the breeder). Anyways, to the point, my mom and her boyfriend smoke cigarettes and I was just wondering if this would harm the rats? I also have a cat, so I will be keeping my bedroom door closed 24/7 and they only smoke in the living room (our house isn't that big, though). My mom does have two air purifiers and will let me use one in my room that I would vacuum weekly when I clean the cage and she is most likely going to use the second one in the living room to catch cat hair and also to get rid of some of the smoke. Will this be good enough or should I reconsider getting rats because of the smoke? Which I'd really not like to do. Thank you in advance.


----------



## Drowsy

I really wish you had taken the advice offered to you on the first thread you posted about wanting rats but having bought the 3DS instead.

I have my concerns for the cigarette smoke.
Two people smoking is a lot. I actually find myself concerned for you and your hedgehog in the house with that much smoke in it.
I have been told not to get rats at all in a smoking household. Their respiratory systems are too delicate to handle it. I hope that if people advise you not to get them due to the smoke you consider their advice more thoroughly.

Have you considered the vet bills associated with rats in general? Let alone ones with chronic respiratory problems caused by smoking.
My rats have caused me, in vet bills alone, over three hundred dollars. And I have only had them for three months. You need to seriously consider if you can, as a fourteen year old, afford to give them the vet care they require, especially as they age, without having to rely on your parents.
You've given great thought to their care and housing, so I hope you've considered healthcare, too.

whatever you decide to do, though, I do wish you luck. <3


----------



## RatzRUs

Smoking in the house is forbidden here. I go outside as we'll my fiancée change our clotheing and wash our hands before handling them. Two people smoking in a house is too much for them too handle. Maybe you can talk to your parents a bout smoking outside possibly? Especially with your hedgehog and yourself.


----------



## ilovemyfatcat

About vet bills, I get $20 a week for allowance, so I'll be saving that up. Plus if they do get sick before my next birthday, I can always get my mom to help me out and me pay her back since I get about $230 every year for birthdays, and on Christmas I get $100 spent on me, but instead of spending it on me, I would get my mom to put it back (or give it to me, since I keep up with stuff really well) for vet bills. I've got it planned and know for a fact I could care for these rats if I got them. But with the air purifiers, wouldn't that be enough? We lived with my grandma for years, she doesn't smoke and is really sensitive to cigarette smoke, the air purifiers definitely helped, as she said she didn't smell it. If you don't think that is enough, though, I will definitely reconsider getting them. What do you think?


----------



## Blaze

A rat's lungs are waaay more sensitive than ours, and I would recommend not getting any rats at all if there is going to ever be ANY amount of smoke in the house. I had a rat who died tonight after struggling with weak and damaged lungs for two years because she was exposed to smoke and smells from pine shavings as a baby. It's animal cruelty to have rats in such a condition.


----------



## cagedbirdsinging

If there is any smoking in the house at all, keeping rats in it would be downright cruel. Save that allowance up and you can pamper some rats in the future.


----------



## Flashygrrl

If they can't stop smoking in the house you shouldn't be trying to house small animals because no matter how many purifiers you use, you will never be able to get it all out. Either save the money for when you CAN have rats or do something nice for a local rescue, like a small donation every week.


----------



## jordanskillsz

My mother smokes cigs alot, though she usually smokes outside, sometimes she smokes in the bathroom, kitchen, or her bedroom. (I've begged her to quit, and haven't gave up.) I usually have my door closed so it should be ok, even try to seal the gaps (if any) from the bottom of the door to the floor as much as possible.


----------



## RatzRUs

Even with the vet fund you will be saving will flow like water between your hands. I've had to have two neauters and two tumor removals I also had problems with mites twice and when the weather drastically changed had a few of mine get URIs. I spent around s far 3,000 dollars. Suprisingly though right now they seem very healthy bouncy,playful. Rats get sick easily and out of nowhere.


----------



## RatzRUs

I'm not complaining just so everyone knows. I took these guys in and it's my responability too get them the health care they need. I am just trying too point out its not a cheap investment


----------



## fluffy470

Ok sooo here's my take on this we have a 14 year old girl like myself, who wants ratlets really bad but can't have them because of smoking parents..... Ok I can see how this is a problem...as far as da smoking... I will agree and say its probably not the best thing for delicate rattie lungs... However as someone else said... What if u could convince them to smoke outside? Do a little research in the Internet, make sure you find reliable websites, find. Out and show your mom just how much the smoking is affecting you. Did you know that just living in a house with that much smoke can severely weaken you immune system, and you have almost as much of a chance of getting lung cancer as your mom! (Not to scare you or anything) if you show your mom how much you care about these rats she very well might decide to smoke outside for you! 
And as far as the vet bills go, my three boys are just now experiencing their first Heath issue... My boys have mites but the rescue I got them from is going to give my the meds for 5 dollars. The nice lady who runs the rescue has told me that whenever my boys have any illness to talk to her before I see the vet. A lot of breeders out there do the same thing. If you would happen to have and illnesses though rat bills are not near as expensive as cats and dogs! 
Sorry if I rambled on  
I hope you find a way to get your ratties because you seem like the kind of person who would spoil them rotten  


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## cagedbirdsinging

Keeping a door closed will not help and even though smoking outside would be better, the entire house is infused at this point. It's just plain best to wait on the rats.


----------



## Drowsy

I think it's really unfortunate that your parents smoking will keep you from owning your dream pets. :c
I am genuinely sorry about that. I lived with an aunt that smoked for years and it was really unpleasant.

I think all in all the answers you got were pretty conclusive, though. It would be so unhealthy to bring them into that environment it would border on animal cruelty. :c


----------



## ratclaws

That is not going to be enough money to consider vet bills. What if you only have say $80 saved up and then a bill comes along that's $200? These things happen all of a sudden and I don't think at that age you can responsibly pay for any health problems alone. If they were "family pets" then that's fine cause your parent/s would be paying towards them. Plus the smoking isn't too great for rats either. I know this may not be what you'd like to hear but I think you should wait til you get your rats.


----------



## ilovemyfatcat

Thanks to everyone. My mom said I can't have any more pets til about summer time, and since I get $20 a week, I should have about $890 saved up, minus about $700 for the rats and the supplies, I'll have $190 saved back for vet bills (which isn't too much at all), but plus birthday money, I get $230. Then Christmas, I'll get mom to give me $50 and spend the rest on me and my rats. Plus the $20 a week from allowance. I should have a great amount saved up by then. And if all else fails, my mom has a rich lady she works for and I know for a fact she would let me borrow some money if needed because she is very helpful. I am definitely going to try and talk them into smoking outside, and if I don't get that done by summer, then I really will reconsider, or I bet I could even get my mom to let me stay at my grandmas house during the week (since we live in one city and I go to school in another and my grandma lives in that city) and just take them to our house during the weekends.


----------



## Drowsy

You keep saying you will reconsider and reconsider, later and later.
I think that you are letting your desire for rats blind you to their health and safety.

You need to wait until you are older and more self sufficient. The rats aren't going to disappear from the earth and you are bordering on sounding selfish. this is too much for you to have to be saving up and saving up for.
And did you consider your hedgehog, too? The vet bills associated with hedgehogs are just as great if not greater than rats.

I know you are only fourteen but you need to practice some maturity in this situation, because animals are involved. You have a wonderful pet already, do you REALLY need to be so dead set on getting more?
I waited for three years starting when I was fourteen to get a reptile. Because I knew I wasn't prepared funds or knowledge wise. And it was the right decision in the long run.
you need to consider that now. You seem to not be taking any of the advice given you.


----------



## Flashygrrl

ilovemyfatcat said:


> my mom has a rich lady she works for and I know for a fact she would let me borrow some money if needed because she is very helpful.


That alone is frankly quite appalling you'd even be willing to ask. Don't borrow money just so you can have something and don't expect others to go to lengths so you have what you want, not need. Like I said before, take a potion of that $20 allowance you get each week (I wish I'd gotten $20 a week when I was a kid) and help out a rescue in need because they're hurting for stuff much more than you right now. You could even start putting the rest of that aside so when you're old enough you can buy a car, and maybe get a job so you can support your own pets instead of depending on other people. Your mom may not always be able to give you that $20 a week and as you grow older your interests may turn elsewhere. I get that you really want rats but by the sounds of it you have enough pets (and some you shouldn't have if it's a smoking home). Just wait till either you're in your own place or maybe they'll stop smoking.


----------



## Drowsy

You also aren't really considering what your parents/mothers employer/grandmother want or are capable of doing.

Does your mother WANT to just see you on the weekends?
Does your grandmother WANT or is she ABLE to have you live with her for the weekdays? (this is not just having you around, but paying for you food and the extra costs related to having you there)
Does your moms employer WANT to have to foot the bill for YOUR pets? You are her employees kid, not her kid. Whether she will do it or not it doesn't mean she wants to,a nd it could put your mothers standing in her job in jeopardy.

all you are considering is what YOU want and any possible way you can get it. And it is coming off as entirely selfish.
You'll find no approval on this forum if you get these rats. And I know you'll find none on any other forums.

I know this isn't what you want to hear. But life is full of compromise and not getting what you want right when you want it. It's responsibility and maturity.


----------



## TGQ

I think it depends on various factors. How far away is your room from where people smoke? If you're in a small apartment, I wouldn't think it was a good idea. 2-story house, better. If you can talk your parents into smoking outside, that would be the best situation, but I know that's a hard thing to do.
I admittedly wasn't well researched I got rats, so they had a few URIs after I got them. Once I got them a purifier and humidifier, they haven't had a flareup in about a year, which is really amazing, considering they're rats, and I do live in a house with smoke. Also, if you have a way to block the vents, I would see about that. I have my heater blocked off right now.
Most importantly, you say you have money for their supplies, but what about vet bills? If they do get sick, can you take care of them? Rats can easily rack up hundreds of dollars in vet bills, sometimes in one visit. You need to have a savings first, not just a deal with it as it comes kind of thing. If you needed surgery, that would be in the hundreds. An evet visit is usually 100 for the office fee and then whatever you need done on top of that. So that's just some food for thought. I don't pay a lot for them monthly, but when the vet visits hit, that's a huge hit to the wallet.


----------



## Pixxie

Honestly, my stance is much more mild on this one and it's probably because I too am young. I honestly think people are being too harsh with the kid. Has no one ever spent their money when they should have been saving? Ever? I certainly have, but I am also capable of taking excellent care of my rats. Learning is part of growing up, and the fact that she returned it (if I remember correctly) shows that she is more concerned about rats than the 3DS. 

On to the subject at hand: having multiple pets at a young age is not irresponsible *IF *(big if) you have the money for it and you have full parental support. Even if your family says that they willing to support you in this, take a hard look at their offer. Are they really? If push comes to shove will they shell out 300 dollars at the vet for you because your vet fund is gone? Do really think about that. If they aren't, please don't get rats. It may cause you to have to watch your rats literally sicken and die from something like pneumonia when it could have been treated successfully. I highly recommend finding a job/summer job, as at 14 you're legally able to work. Something informal like babysitting works just fine, and it will give you a chance to earn even more money. Trust me, rats aren't cheap. I've spend almost 200 dollars on them this month. Part of it was my fault, but you get the idea....

That being said, definitely wait until the summer. You have to because your cannot get them until the summer anyways, and this is a good thing. If you still desperately want rats by then, consider it. Think about it long and hard. Do not do it if you cannot get your family to smoke outside. Trust me, they will be sick constantly. Mine sniffle from a little dust. I can't imagine what they'd do if I smoked. You have a hedgehog, which are wonderful little animals. Are you sure you have time and money for rats too? Rats are extremely time consuming. It's one thing hearing someone say that, and a whole 'nother experience cleaning out a cage for 2 hours twice a week. That's not even including changing liners....

In whole, do make sure that you really think. You have a lot to consider. I personally agree that rats probably aren't a good idea right now. Maybe not even the hedgehog. However, I am not you and I don't know what you can make work. Very carefully consider this. Rats need your time and attention, and if your life gets hectic you still can't ignore them. They aren't like snakes where they don't care as long as they get fed; they absolutely need your attention.

Speaking of life getting hectic, rats will definitely cut into your social life. You can't constantly be gone doing things with friends. Your rats need attention, cleaning, feeding, etc. An hour a day of interaction is the _minimuim_. Trust me, they need more than that. I would say 2 hours a day is better. It's a lot of time for someone in school who also wants to socialize. I know as a college student with a very busy but flexible schedule that I had problems balancing it. Some of that was not strictly due to me (my ex never wanted to come to my apartment) but a lot of it was. I still made it work and I don't regret getting the rats, but it is another thing to consider. They are more like small, less (relatively speaking) expensive dogs that you don't have to walk. Think of them like this, and _then_ decide if you still can responsibly keep rats.


----------



## ratclaws

I just think that the fact the OP bought a 3DS first instead of the rats kinda says it all really... to choose between a piece of technology and some living animals and pick the former I don't think the responsibility is there I'm sorry. Plus the smoking and money is a huge issue. For example, I recently spent £200 on just one rat (I have three) getting 2 mammary tumours removed and a spay done and she's only about 5 months (that's $325). And I can guarantee other things in your life will come up that require you spending your allowance such as socialising, e.g. cinema, shopping, clothes, food. Just my opinion I think you should personally be a bit older before you take on the responsibility yourself when you can look after yourself with stability and to be honest, earning your own income. They really are like keeping tiny dogs.


----------



## AppleWrapple

I'm surprised that cigarette smoke would travel like that through a house. Off the top of my head I wouldn't think that being in a different room with the door closed and an air purifier would cause much of a problem. I know their lungs are really delicate but I wouldn't think that minute traces of smoke would have such a great effect. I'm not arguing, just surprised.

Though sometimes I think people are a little too sensitive about cigarettes.


----------



## ratclaws

AppleWrapple said:


> I'm surprised that cigarette smoke would travel like that through a house. Off the top of my head I wouldn't think that being in a different room with the door closed and an air purifier would cause much of a problem. I know their lungs are really delicate but I wouldn't think that minute traces of smoke would have such a great effect. I'm not arguing, just surprised.
> 
> Though sometimes I think people are a little too sensitive about cigarettes.


Well if you consider how much second-hand smoke affects babies and children then you can imagine how it'd be much greater on rats seeing as they have basically a smaller version of our anatomy. If the parents smoked outside I could see it not being an issue (this is what my girlfriend does and she has 2 rats) but inside it's gonna disperse everywhere.


----------



## Three B's Mom

I'm not saying it's okay by any means but just wanted to share. A long time ago when I was just moving out of my parents home, I rescued a feeder rat baby from a dresser drawyer that was meant for a snake. This was at a college dorm and was kind of stealing but rescuing all the same. Anyway, I had no idea how to take proper care of her. It was before internet and books etc. I brought her to my tiny apartment I shared with my now husband, boyfriend at the time. We both smoked, no purifier to clean the air. Her name was Devon, she was just plain brown but was the best friend I had. I brought her everywhere with my on my shoulder. If people would have know I had a "rat" I would've been kicked out of a lot of places. She lived in a tiny cage, alone for all of her life because I didn't know any better. She lived to be a ripe old age of over 4 years old and I cried like a baby when she passed away one night.

Now of course, I have 3 girls in a huge cage. I smoke outside and feed them the best diet. Information is everything. So I think knowing what's right now has definitely made me want the absolute best for my girls but would I change anything about Devon's life, no I wouldn't. She was happy, and healthy and the most popular rat in town.


----------



## TGQ

Not that I don't think you all have a legitimate concern, but I do think you are being harsh in saying "No, you are cruel and can never have rats because of circumstances you cannot control, even if you take measures to improve them."
Are you all factually basing this off of having rats in this situation, or are you just assuming the rats are going to be constantly sick in a room that is closed off with air purifiers? My rats are in that situation, and I'm pretty sure a. the purifier made a HUGE difference in both their health and mine, and b. they're not getting sick all the time (hardly ever since I got it).


----------



## ilovemyfatcat

About buying the 3DS instead of rats, this was before I got allowance and knew that I could definitely care for the rats myself rather than having my mom pay for their every need. Now that I get $20 a week, I know I can care for them. That's why I'm getting rid of it because I would much rather have rats then have some kind of game system. It honestly shows I have MORE responsibility that I was going to wait until I got a job and could finance their needs myself, instead of putting that financial burden upon my mother's shoulders as well as a cats every need. And I really wish everyone would stop bringing up the money as a factor of why I shouldn't get them. I know this is important, like I said, I will be able to afford them! I've calculated, if I wait until August to get the rats, I should have roughly $1050 saved up for the rats, the supplies, and for putting money back. Not counting my birthday money and more allowance, plus money for Christmas. About time, I literally have no social life. My life evolves around sleep, eating and the laptop. Which is why I want rats, they'd spice up my life! I have at least 3 hours I could let these guys free range after I get home from school. While I'm doing homework or watching TV, they would be free ranging or if I would be playing on my computer. Oh yes, and my room will be 100% rat proof if you were wondering. I know I'm being complicated and all, but if I get these guys from a very reputable breeder, having two air purifiers (and if needed, I could always buy another one), and being in a closed off room WITH a window up most of the time, these guys should be set.


----------



## Awaiting_Abyss

AppleWrapple said:


> I'm surprised that cigarette smoke would travel like that through a house. Off the top of my head I wouldn't think that being in a different room with the door closed and an air purifier would cause much of a problem. I know their lungs are really delicate but I wouldn't think that minute traces of smoke would have such a great effect. I'm not arguing, just surprised.
> 
> Though sometimes I think people are a little too sensitive about cigarettes.


Cigarette smoke travels far and easily. I'm allergic to it and I react to it even if I'm on the opposite end of the house and my brother is closed in his room and then closed in his bathroom smoking. Even if a person smokes outside they still bring it in with them in the form of third-hand smoke.


----------



## Drowsy

I think it's really telling that no matter how many of these rat EXPERTS on this forum are telling you that it would NOT be enough to have the door closed with a purifier or the window open you are convinced it is, anyways.

It really seems that no matter what you are told, even though you came seeking advice, you will do what you want anyways. So maybe you should just not seek advice at all, when the answer you get you are obviously going to ignore anyways?
It seems like a waste of everyone's time, in my opinion. Obviously you will do whatever you want, whether it puts the rats at risk or not. :/


----------



## trematode

I did not see your other thread but I want to point two things out: are your parents on board with you having rats? Are they willing to help out with vet bills if a problem arises? Just based on the wording of the post, it was never talked about or they are not on board. Just to give you an idea of how sensitive their respiratory systems are: I have had my girls since September. They sneezed like crazy when I brought them home. They both developed URIs which cost $86 to treat. I had a scare after hearing Amelia sneeze and coo for a few days and it was another $26 for the vet to deem them both healthy. I just recently made them a play pen. The first few times, they sneezed like crazy because they likely were not used to being close to the laminent flooring. Their respiratory systems are sensitive! I would not feel comfortable housing them in an area where cigarette smoke is an issue. I also waited until I was 17 an had a job before expanding my animal family so that I could support them financially. I have applied to vet school and still have never owned a cat or dog because of the financial responsibility.


----------



## ratclaws

I just don't believe that this master plan of saving up is going to work that's all, costs always arise and you never know what's going to happen between now and August. Other things you need to consider are have you found a vet nearby? Is it easily accessible? Will your parents drive you there if one of your rats suddenly gets a URI and has to go in the next day (these incidences can easily escalate into pneumonia)? I have no doubt you will look after them well and love them but I don't think it's a great age to have them if they're just your pets alone and not financially shared with a sibling/parents.


----------



## ilovemyfatcat

I'm not trying to be complicated. I'm trying to let you see that I could care for these rats by myself. Sorry that you think that I am not listening and shouldn't have asked. I'm trying to give off solutions so I can get them. Like I said, I will reconsider if I think the smoke would really hurt them. I have several months to think this over, but right now I'm really considering not getting them since I'm being nagged over and over. I will have at least $300 saved for vet bills! Plus $200 from birthday money and then $50 from Christmas. Not counting the extra allowance I will also get between August and December. There is a very good small animal vet in my city that I took my guinea pigs to, once and he knew what the problem was right away with them (an abscess) and fixed it. It is also close. If I can't get my mom to take me, which most likely won't happen, my grandma would be very happy to do it. She'd take me anywhere if either a. I needed it or b. it involves friends (she thinks I need to get out more and be more sociable). And like I said, I am going to try and get them to smoke outside, y'all haven't even obviously read that part since you still think I shouldn't get them. I wish everyone would stop nagging about vet bills as well. If it becomes a problem, which it won't, my mom WILL help me. I already know this. And my mom is on board with me getting rats. She fully understands I really want them, since I asked her before this summer. She said it is perfectly fine as long as I think it over thoroughly and know for a fact they are what I want and that I will care for them and keep their cage cleaned.


----------



## LightningWolf

Not to sound rude, I'm really trying not to, but what about your Hedgehog? What if she gets sick and needs to see the vet? There goes all your money.

You could do some odd jobs around town, mow lawns, walk dogs, ect. To earn some extra money.


----------



## cagedbirdsinging

The fact of the matter is that the cigarette smoke, no matter what you do, will hurt the rats. The choice is yours, and it is clear which one is more responsible.

I am sure that you feel ganged-up on, but please remember that this is a community of people that are very passionate about rat health. Your decision would put rats in danger and that upsets many people here.


----------



## Drowsy

No matter what these highly experienced people are telling you about cigarette smoke 'you don't think' it will hurt them. 'you think' you can take care of them. You think these things. you have made these decisions for yourself, putting your own knowledge or lack there of ahead of what is being told to you by expert rat owners.
After seeking their advice in the first place.

'I'll reconsider if I think the smoke would really hurt them.' You're being TOLD that it will!
People aren't saying this because they maliciously don't want you to own rats.

People with experience telling you this will not work.
And you're not really thinking of the pet you have, your hedgehog, at all seemingly. Her needs, attention and vet bills in the future.
You even said in your first thread you didn't want her and she isn't interesting to you.

And you obviously haven't read peoples replies, because the fact that smoking outside leaves it on their clothes for third hand smoke problems has been brought up more than once.
You are blinding yourself to the concerns brought up to you because of your own desires, and you are getting uppity and defensive because people aren't agreeing with you/ telling you what you want to hear.
I can't imagine if your mom read through this thread she would still consider getting you rats.


----------



## TGQ

So you guys are experts from all your personal nonsmoking household experience and statistical data about rats in homes with purifiers and I'm a cruel liar and my rats are suffering when they haven't had a Uri in the year that I've had a purifier? Yeah, okay.


----------



## cagedbirdsinging

TGQ said:


> So you guys are experts from all your personal nonsmoking household experience and statistical data about rats in homes with purifiers and I'm a cruel liar and my rats are suffering when they haven't had a Uri in the year that I've had a purifier? Yeah, okay.


This is akin to sometime saying that the cigarette smoke of someone they know hasn't damaged their lungs simply based on the fact that they haven't had a cold.


----------



## Willieboo

Hate to poke my nose into things, but I've been watching this thread build up for awhile and it's just...
In light of the holiday season, can't we all cool off a little bit? I know we're all rat lovers and are concerned for rat health, but in my opinion if they really want to get rats, they're going to get rats...and no amount of arguing or trying to convince otherwise is going to change that...as we've seen. Waste of time to keep batting it back and forth, feeding the discontent.
Since I joined, this site's been very friendly and calm. It's a shame to see a post turn a little bit otherwise this time of year.
Felt it had to be said.
Sorry for interrupting.


----------



## Drowsy

TGQ said:


> So you guys are experts from all your personal nonsmoking household experience and statistical data about rats in homes with purifiers and I'm a cruel liar and my rats are suffering when they haven't had a Uri in the year that I've had a purifier? Yeah, okay.


Uh, you don't know what peoples personal experiences are?
I lived with a smoker for the majority of my life. Aside from wrecking my lungs, it also killed a hamster that my mother got for me. Even though she was in another room, with the window open, never SEEMINGLY exposed to the smoke.
And I also already said I've had time in a vets office that handles small pets and seen the affects, no matter the lengths people went to, as well as knowing more than one person who dealt with it, too.

If it seems to be working for you that is fine. That is unique, even. And it's not right to go around encouraging someone who may have a worse result to go for it. what ill you say if their rats DO develop URIs?
you need to give people responsible advice, not get defensive over a thread that wasn't even aimed at your situation. You already have your rats, no one has told you to get rid of them or that you are evil, they are just trying to prevent others from going into a situation that wouldn't be healthy for them. There's no need to get snarky about it.


----------



## RatGirl_Red

Willieboo said:


> Hate to poke my nose into things, but I've been watching this thread build up for awhile and it's just...
> In light of the holiday season, can't we all cool off a little bit? I know we're all rat lovers and are concerned for rat health, but in my opinion if they really want to get rats, they're going to get rats...and no amount of arguing or trying to convince otherwise is going to change that...as we've seen. Waste of time to keep batting it back and forth, feeding the discontent.
> Since I joined, this site's been very friendly and calm. It's a shame to see a post turn a little bit otherwise this time of year.
> Felt it had to be said.
> Sorry for interrupting.


Agreed...I think certain people are getting extremely upset about this and defensive. 


Drowsy, you have successfully established your opinion and you are circling and attacking people now for not sharing your POV. I think this thread has done its purpose and maybe a Mod should close it. 

She came here for help and advice, we all learn somehow. In the end she will do what she wants, and have to live with the consequences of her decisions but by NO means should anyone here be so rude as to run people off the forum because they dont do something how you think they should which is a huge issue with most pet forums. 

I would rather her be on this forum learning and asking advice than doing it alone.

For those that are steaming over this topic, perhaps you should just stop reading or replying instead of turning into a bully


----------



## trematode

If you don't believe anything that is being said about cigarette smoke and rats, why don't you call up your small animal vet and ask him his opinion? It won't cost you anything to get the opinion of a professional. I volunteered in a vet clinic so I know that second hand smoke can even cause health issues in dogs and cats.


----------



## Ashlee1228

Please wait to get Rats until you can be in a completely smoke free environment, 2 or even 4 air purifiers are _not_ enough to keep them from getting sick (see bottom). 

A Single vet visit just for a check up and antibiotic medications costs us $200... if they have a bad URI weekly visits for us for treatment would be $35-$75
neuter for 1 rat is about $300.. and spay is much more!
Our monthly feed, cleaning supplies, etc bill is around $60
Weekly grocery bill for fresh veg and fruit just for 2 rats is around $15 
A decent tall cage can cost around $100 and up to $400
Basic Cage accessories (water bottle, food bowls, hut, and bedding) can easily cost $35+

And I spend at least 1 hour or more cleaning their cage EVERYDAY!

Please think long and hard before you buy Rats, they are living beings with huge personalities that are totally dependent on you for their care and happiness, and smoke is very bad for their little lungs even if there are air purifiers they dont take all the smoke particles out of the air and the rats can still get sick from it. 
My youngest rat got sick from a scented candle! they are that sensitive and just because you cant smell the smoke doesn't mean that it cant make them sick.


----------



## TGQ

I wasn't saying it had no effect ever, but I was also saying you guys are making assumptions/jumping to conclusions saying it will harm the rats if measures are taken against it. It is situational. In my first post, I advised against it if it's a smaller area like an apartment where the smoke is more compact. In a bigger house, it would be easier to keep them away from it, keep the air purified, keep windows open, block off vents, etc. Unless you have a scientific study to link me to about purifiers not being helpful, I don't want to hear your "experiences" that haven't even involved them. A window open =/= a purifier. 
All I see here is the OP being treated with hostility from the minute she even rose the question, which is sad, because no one coming to a forum to learn about pets they want to get deserves hostility, especially when they've done a good amount of research, want to go the lengths to get a really nice cage, not make one out of an old tv or other things you guys encourage, provide vet care, and not get rats from mills like you guys cheer on on this forum half the time. I'd make suggestions, like saving up is good, but I would recommend getting some kind of job as well as some posters have recommended (instead of totally shooting down the OP as some of you rudely have), and instead of assuming her rats are going to drop dead from _third hand smoke_ (seriously..), why not keep making constructive ideas? Trying to talk the parents into smoking outside is a good idea, or the basement/specific area. Keeping them in a far away area in the house is also a good idea. If you could keep them in an attic, or room that has no connection with the vents, with purifiers, they would have little to no contact with the smoke. 
See, it's really not that hard to think of constructive things instead of acting like hostile elitists. That is all I have left to say.


----------



## ilovemyfatcat

Thanks to some of you for trying to give advice instead of jumping to the conclusion that I shouldn't get the rats. The people who are saying that I'm going to get them whatever I get told - who ever said that? Not me, if you would read. I am trying to give solutions so some of you can mold those into ideas and HELP me. Saying that I can pay for vet bills and saying that purifiers and a window open should help does not mean I am going to get them for sure. LIKE I SAID: I have several months to think this over. I am going to try and think up solutions myself since no one cares to help (besides you TGQ; thank you). Another like I said: if I don't think any solution will help, I WILL NOT GET THEM. Anyways, thanks for some of your help guys. I appreciate it.


----------



## RatGirl_Red

Another thought...no one is ever prepared financially. When I got Murphy, my now tripod bunny, I wasn't prepared for the 600$ she has racked up the past 4 months. Just thankful for CareCredit because I do not have that money laying around to be used for a pet. There is always a way. 

The main thing to consider if what you can give them RIGHT NOW.  Can you feed and house them appropriately? And with rodents being as sensitive as they are, smoking or not there are things in the air that are harmful. I would consider some of the cleaners people use as dangerous or morso than ciggs. 

Topics about medications you take seeping through your skin has been brought up rarely, but when those meds seep out, how do you think those effect your sensitive pets? There is no way anyone can make a 100% safe envirement, all we can do is try. 



I am not super Rat Savvy, but feel free to PM me anytime if you need to vent or get a quick question out and fear what the results may get you 
If anything, it's great to be able to do this research beforehand so when you CAN get your rats, you are prepared for the care needs. And if you can convince your mom and her bf to smoke outside, it would benefit you a lot, too.  And maybe encouraging them to quit, also, for your and their health benefits.


----------



## LightningWolf

Honestly, just them smoking outside (I would still put air purifies in the room they were smoking in Simply because cigratte smoke Smell, the smoke, does stay for a while) is good enough.

If you can't get them to smoke out, what TGQ said is actually a good idea.

Another Idea, which isn't Ideal, but could work, but is expensive. Is maybe making one room (or building a room on to your house) that has it's own air system, this would actually come in handy when you need quarantine new rats, and would keep out smoke.

you could also encourage them that if they won't smoke outside to at least smoke with the windows open? maybe have a fan in the window to help get the smoke out.

I still have a curious question, What about your Hedgehog? I mean, what about if she needs to go to the vet? That really is my big worry is that your so worried about saving money for your future rats (who you may or may not get) and your forgetting about your Hedgehog and her needs.

No one here is trying to mean, I'm actually trying to help (I'm going to guess my post got buried under a bunch of arguing)


----------



## catland

I wouldn't say that the OP is responsible for any costs associated for the hedgehog since it was their mom that bought it without asking if OP wanted a hedgehog


----------



## trematode

I'm going to throw this out there again: none of you are veterinarians. We all have personal experiences that lead us to believe that smoke is harmful or that it is not as harmful as you think. I am not innocent here either because I witnessed how sensitive they are compared to the gerbils and cats I have. If the OP wants a solid answer on whether the smoke will cause health issues in her particular situation, the OP should call at least one clinic with an exotics specialist and leave a message for the veterinarian. Or the OP could ask the next time she takes her other animals in. Personally, unless the OPs parents are willing to be responsible pet owners and take the rats in if problems arise, the OP should wait a few years until she can financially support the rats. My parents were not 100% good owners with our first cat. I fought to get them to take her in for check ups. It took her losing a tooth for them to make an appointment. By that time, she needed 4 teeth pulled which cost $500. I was 16 at the time. No job yet. It was painful knowing the cat needed a check-up and having my parents refuse. I have student loan debt and a full time job now. I have credit available if an emergency arises. That's how I am "prepared". The OP is young. I am happy she came here with her questions and honesty. Most people will go to a pet store, buy a rat and keep it in a tiny cage.


----------



## cagedbirdsinging

Please do not "backseat moderate". This is against the rules and is not constructive.

What needed to be said here has been said and hopefully responsible decisions are made with the advice that was presented. Remember that although we are all passionate about rat health, this is a friendly community that will continue to treat other rat owners, both current and potential, with kindness and respect.


----------

