# Immersion Training - Need Advice



## Pseudonym (Jun 9, 2013)

Hello all,

I’m going to go through immersion again and would appreciate some advice/clarifications.

Very recently I got two intact boys, Doug and Ike, from a lab management class. According to the lab manager, these boys were around 8 months old and they were raised in the lab without much human interaction aside from cleaning / feeding. These two boys had been together with two other mates for as long as they had been in the lab.

_[The following is a long read. I wrote it to provide back-story on the boys’ behaviors and why I want to go through immersion again, but you may skim it/skip if you want to. I put these marks (-----------) to sandwich the beginning and the end of this section]_ 

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Both boys were extremely shy at first, but eventually their personalities started to come out. Ike was extremely skittish and nervous. He loved coming out of his cage to explore, but would freak and dash for the cage at the slightest sound or movement, shifts, yawns and sighs included. Doug was far lazier, but still enjoyed walking outside his cage and he was also not as quick to flee for cover as Ike. A couple days passed, and I opened up their cage to let them range about. Ike was out and about, but after 15 minutes, Doug still had not come out. I took him out the cage, and gave him some treats. When Ike came into view, Doug froze completely, and when Ike got closer, Doug squeaked, dropped his treat and then ran for cover in the cage. For the next two days I observed them both in and out of their cage. Most of their in-cage interactions involved Doug hanging out inside a box, then Ike slowly and menacingly crawling into the same box, Doug squeaking and making a mad dash for a different box, Ike following him, and repeating the same event until Ike got tired. During these two days, whenever I gave them both treats, Ike would gobble his up and then stare at Doug, who would freeze, drop the treat and run. Eventually, Doug flat out refused to take any treats. Also, when left to roam outside, Doug refused to come out his cage, and when I took him out, he would only explore if he saw that I put Ike back into the cage. I figured at first that the change in their pack dynamic (from 4 to 2 rats) was making Ike act aggressively. But after it became obvious that Doug was constantly terrified and Ike was just being a bully, I started to search for ways to deal with bully rats. 

The information I found to reduce aggressiveness exclusively mentioned castration, so when I read someone mention immersion on the forum, I figured it was worth giving it a shot. I read up on as much as I could find on the forum (sticky, scattered posts, people going through immersion themselves), and then gave immersion a shot. I stayed with Ike for about 6 hours. Despite the lack of an “it all makes sense” moment, Ike was now allowing me to pick him up without him flipping out, so I figured it was good enough progress for the time being. I then took both rats out to let them explore in the same confined space, always shooing Ike off whenever he was showing any antagonism towards Doug or if he tried taking Doug’s treats. The following days, Ike was not tormenting Doug anymore, Doug started to take treats again without fear, and they started sleeping together. Ike was also not _as_ terrified by any movements or sounds, but both boys still freaked and flipped out whenever I tried to pick them up.

Six days ago (five days past immersion), after they had been free roaming and were back in their cage, I went in to pick Ike up. He squeaked in protest, but I insisted, and then he bit me. I fought back hard. Eventually he stopped fighting and stared cowering. I treated myself, and then took him with me to clean up the blood that had dripped/had been smeared on him. He did not protest me handling him this time (being picked up or being turned on his back to clean his belly area). The day after, I went into their cage to interact with them a little bit, but when I put my hand near Ike, he bit again. I was pissed. The first time I was bit it had been my fault completely. I pushed a still nervous rat too far and despite him warning me, I persisted. This time, however, he just went straight for a bite; he gave no warning, he was not cornered, he had plenty of hiding spaces all around him. I back-hand slapped him on reaction, then put on gloves and started to fight with as much force as necessary. Despite me wearing winter gloves, he bit through one my fingers, piercing the flesh with both teeth meeting underneath the skin. When I was done with him, the same thing happened as before: cleaned myself, took him out without protest, cleaned him up, and then handled him for a really long time.

The following day Ike became really sweet. He would come down to the cage door every time I came near, he would climb the outside of his cage and wait for me to put my arm out so he could climb on it, he circumnavigated my shoulders/arms while bruxing and he would willingly walk on my open palms for me to carry him. He was barely scared by noises or movements anymore, and was more willing to be in contact than ever before.

Two days ago, I was sitting down on the floor while the boys were roaming. I scratched Ike’s back, and then placed my hand palm-down on the floor close to me. Ike then calmly walked on top of my hand, and bit down softly, but then applied enough force to draw a bit of blood. In the span of 1-2 seconds, he began a gentle nibble that turned evil. I fought him off, but this time I noticed that there was no deep puncture or profuse bleeding. What I had was the type of cut one would get by scraping enough skin against a rough surface. I figured that based on his behavior and the type of bite, this last bite was his way of testing the water to settle the pecking order with me.

Currently, I have not handled Doug as much as I have Ike. Both rats freak out and run whenever I try to pick them up, and are only willing to be lifted up when they walk on my open palm. Doug is friendly and lazy. Ike has been just as brave and adventurous as before, but has been _just_ a tad less loving these past two days. 

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I made some progress during my initial immersion attempt, but decided to stop because I was not sure if I was actually doing immersion right anymore. I did not carry out immersion to the point where a good foundation for communication was laid with Ike, and it was not until after I beat him up that we started to communicate. My communication with Doug is not very good at the moment; but he’s a naturally friendly rat, so I decided that as long as Ike was not tormenting him anymore, it was good enough for the time being. I want to do immersion with both boys, but I wanted some clarifications as to what to do in certain situations.

When I did immersion the first time, Ike was extremely nervous. He cowered on me until he was confident enough to walk around the confined area. While he looked around, I would follow and scratch/pet him. Every time I scratched him, he would turn his head around and put a paw on my offending limb, and then would flee my hand as hastily as possible. After more persistent contact, he would freeze, turn around and plop upside down (and I would scratch his belly at this time). Then, I would pick him up and handle him a bit, until he found enough courage to explore once again, and then the whole process would start all over again. He eventually just started plopping over with any contact, including when I was holding him. After about an hour of constant plopping, I decided to stop immersion.

The way I interpreted “staying on my rat’s face” was to be very energetic and playful as I touched him. But every time I acted this way, Ike would try to push me away and eventually just plopped/submitted at any touch. Moreover, every time I tried picking him up, he would run and jump, and eventually, he would just let out a really soft squeak as I lifted him. When staying on the rat’s face all the time, is that to be interpreted as being on their case at all times, except when preening/grooming? From Ike’s body language during our interactions and the way he squeaked whenever I picked him up, I could tell he wanted me to stop touching/lifting him, but if I did stop (to show him I was listening to him), would not that just go against the whole point of being in constant contact with him?

I’m also confused on how gentle I should be with him during immersion. To be in his face I was very playful, excited and energetic with the way I touched him, even when I was comforting him when he was laying on me. During immersion, what do you think an appropriate touch would be? Are slow, soft and loving touches good, or should I keep it energetic? Should I focus on being in touch with all of his body (scratching random places), or is sticking to one area (eg. scratching mostly his back) just as good as long as contact is being made?

I hope the read is not too long or tedious (thought my description would allow for better insight) and I would appreciate any feedback.

Thank you for your time


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

First of all, you are starting with very difficult rats. Lab rats are almost always intentionally neglected. Psychology rats shouldn't bond with their experimenters and screw up the experiment and with other research rats; first most labs are terribly understaffed in the rat care area, and second most people don't want to bond with an animal who's liver they are going to remove and study.

Actually, you have made quite some headway, The fact that Ike is not beating up as much on Doug means that you are assuming the role of alpha and he's learning to follow your lead. And the fact that he respects you and feels more comfortable around you after you enforce discipline is actually quite normal. Rats don't resent being put in their place, in fact they need to know where their place is in order to be truly happy.

Rats do playfight for pack order and to confirm their reality. I read somewhere that rats have 23000 pounds per square foot bite capacity... it might take a while for Ike to learn how much force he can exert without hurting you. But you are absolutely right immediate negative reinforcement is required to stop biting. There can be no confusion here, biting rats aren't pets, ever! 

Now a few specifics on how an immersion with a lab rat or other neglected rat might go:

Most likely at first you are going to be ignored or avoided. The one thing a neglected rat learns is that humans don't want their attention. And they pretty much assume that humans aren't sentient beings capable of communication as they understand it. If humans were intelligent beings they would naturally pack bond, and as the humans generally plunk in food and walk by... they can't be very smart. At this point getting in your rats face is pretty much you saying "Hey, I'm here! Notice me! I'm talking to you!" Now with 8 months of experience behind him Ike is saying... "Go away, I know you aren't really talking to me. I know humans can't communicate with rats." 

Sometimes at that point a rat can get aggressive. The first good thing is that he now believes you just might be sentient and capable of communication. Now he's got to establish pack order with you. Naturally as he sees you and less than intelligent, he might assume he should take charge. Or maybe he sees you as competition and he's going to drive you away. Either way at this point communication takes the form of of you being the alpha rat or alpha human. You make it very clear to your rat that you aren't going away and you aren't backing down and you are in charge.

Then a strange thing happens... once your rat accepts your status it becomes docile and sometimes actually rolls over. Now pay close attention... Your rat is waiting for you to accept it into your pack. You signify that you are welcoming it into your pack by skritching it's belly, scratching it behind the ears, and showing it any form of affection you think it can understand. This is a rat welcoming ritual!!! If you don't accept your rats surrender properly, it assumes you don't want it to belong to your pack and it's going to get very confused.

After your rat has submitted to you, it's important to stay with him and snuggle etc. Normally when a rat joins a pack it snuggles and sleeps with it's new packmates. I haven't always seen this in immersions, but it is very common that a immersed rat suddenly snuggles up with their human and goes to sleep. This is really a great breakthrough, imagine your rat is trusting you with it's eyes closed. 

So stay in your rats face basically means stay engaged. If it fights, you fight back, if it ignores you don't let it, if it wants snuggles and skritches respond in kind and over the top. 

Over the span of several hours, you are expecting your rat to completely change the way it sees the world and the way it regards you. You need to watch for the signs of change and respond appropriately. That's why immersion deals with communication rather than rigid methodology.

Your goal is to bond with your rat and become the loving pack alpha, in the end your rat's goal is to join your pack and be protected by you. What path the immersion takes to get there depends on where you start. 

If you start out with a "normal" healthy 5 week old rat, you pretty much have to get it's attention, play a while and move on to the hugs and belly rubs. If you start out with a rat that's hostile and hormonal and has been abused and has already been leading a pack and thinks it's the alpha, you are going to have a battle on your hands to start with. But the final stages of submission and welcoming him to your pack and extended affection time are the same pretty much for all immersed rats.

I know you are asking yourself if maybe not all rats turn out to be as affectionate as all others, and the answer is yes. After a lifetime of neglect and abuse some rats never get as affectionate as some others, but their bond to you will still be unmistakable. They will learn their names and commands and generally accept your status and direction. They will reach out and communicate with you and watch you for signs of your disposition. They may not understand snuggles and hugs because they have no basis for it but overall they will become well adjusted pack members.

As to skittishness... when a rat hears or senses something new it's always interpreted as a threat. With shoulder rats, the first time you take them to the safe site everything is new. A bird sqwaks and your rat freaks out, a grasshopper can send your rat into a panic and a truck driving by in the distance can be interpreted by your rat as the first sign of Armageddon. But after lots of birds fly by and chirp, and lots of trucks rumble past and your rat meets or even eats a few grasshoppers it becomes less and less skittish. Lab rats have been raised in a virtual vacuum. Every sound is foreign and frightening by bonding with your rats and introducing them to their new world you will actually be making the transition easier. Rats attached to a strong and powerful alpha feel protected and are going to be calmer and less likely to panic. They learn to rely on your judgment and threat assessment over their own. When a true shoulder rat walks across an open field at heel, it's disregarding thousands of years of instinct and trusting completely in it's human that it isn't going to get killed or eaten way out in the open.

So it sounds like you are making progress... and immersion has worked very well on rats similar to yours. But keep in mind that staying in your rats face and being aggressive means completely different things at different stages of immersion and with different rats. As to precisely what you should be doing and when is a judgment call you do on the fly based on your understanding of what your rat is communicating to you. Keep asking yourself; What is your rat telling you? How does it want me to respond? Think "If I were locked in a bathroom with a grizzly bear and I rolled over on my back what could the bear do to make me feel most welcome and protected? If I bite the grizzly bear in the paw how do I anticipate it is going to respond? If I bite the grizzly and it runs away who is in charge now? If I bite the grizzly bear and it smacks me around should I really try that again? The bear keeps poking and petting at me, is it really trying to get my attention? Is it trying to be my friend? Can I find some way to reach out to the bear and make it understand we can be friends? Who is supposed to be in charge here?" And at some point, "Wouldn't it be really cool to be part of the Grizzly Bears pack?" Your rat is thinking it's way through immersion just like you are. It's driven by a need to belong and exist in a structured society and it's smart and emotional. Yes, it's been really screwed up by 8 months of neglect, but it can and will learn. Immersion is a free form exercise as much as it is a methodology. It's foundation is a philosophy of two intelligent life forms bonding through communication. And don't worry too much about going wrong, if you try something several times and you don't get through, try another approach and see how your rat reacts. And lastly don't short cut the sessions, it takes time to get through and make permanent changes. Before immersion it took weeks to socialize a reasonably normal rat and many screwed up ones never came around. You are doing in a single day what some people never accomplished with rats as damaged as yours.

Hope that helps.... best luck.


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## Pseudonym (Jun 9, 2013)

I did immersion with Ike for a total of 12 hours two days ago. During the first 30 minutes seemed excited, hopping around and taking treats without a problem. But when I tried to pick him up, he bit me in the palm deep enough to expose the muscle underneath.

After dealing with him and myself, I continued with immersion. From then on, any contact from my part resulted in him running away. After running away from my pets and scratches, he would jump on me and stay there for a while, flinching as I showed my affections. Eventually, he would calm down enough to jump down and explore again, but as soon as he saw my hand approach, he would run. 

Around the five hour mark, every time I pet him he would run away, and _leap_ whenever he felt my touch. Then, he would either: leap on top of me and stay there until he decided to get off, or he would corner himself, standing on his hind legs with his back glued to the corner, slowly sliding down as I touched him until his back hit the floor (he would not move from there unless I moved him). When I got to the eleventh hour, instead of jumping on me any longer, he started jumping up and down repeatedly against the door.

I know I’m trying to respond to his needs. I _*really*_ do. But if his needs during immersion are pretty much “LEAVE ME ALONE! RUN AWAY! THE DOOR IS CLOSED! I’M SCARED! I JUMPED ON YOU, ISN’T THAT WHAT YOU WANT?! STOP IT!,” what approach am I supposed to take then? I was constantly changing the ways I was interacting with him to see if he responded better. If he was nervous and wanted to take cover, I would provide shelter (He hid on my shirt sleeve at one point for about 10 minutes). If he was lying down, I would be gentle but still keep contact with him. But nothing I did seemed to work, he was just as scared during the first few hours as he was during the end.

On a side note, when I put Ike back in the cage, Doug came up to him, and Ike immediately plopped down to the side and started squeaking as Doug began grooming him. Then yesterday, Ike spent the whole day hidden; only coming out to take treats. During free roaming, I had to take Ike out of his cage, but when I took him out, he bolted straight for the cage. I took him out again, and then he started exploring and seemed calmer, but every time I offered him a treat or saw my hand approaching, he would flinch and run in the opposite direction. I thought I traumatized him during immersion. Today, however, he was all over the place, exploring and climbing on my hand without a problem.

And Rat Daddy, you said that Amelia was neglected for 7 months and despite her not knowing the concept of affection you were able to immerse her with relative ease. Do you still remember how you responded to her needs or how you specifically showed her you were trying to communicate with her and be her friend? I know you want us to pilot the way we carry out immersion by responding to our rats, but I’m starting to think I’m taking a flawed approach to how I’m responding to what he needs.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

First of all you started out by getting bit, from what I gather you are not getting bit anymore. So your rat no longer needs to be neutered or euthanized. Let's put that in the progress column.

Now lets review a couple of gestures your rat made that you specifically mentioned. Standing on his hind legs in the boxing posture. Your rat expects you to box back. Lying down at your touch is submission your rat expects to be aggressively groomed. Jumping on you for protection your rat expects to be held and cuddled.

Freaking out and running away... your rat does not understand your reply to his communication or he is very badly damaged.

Now If I had to guess where part of the problem is, it's when you got bit you took a defensive stand throughout the immersion. Pretty much you didn't want to get bit again so when your rat jumped on you you didn't just give him the big cuddle and hug that would have showed him you accepted him and when he boxed you didn't box back and when he slid down and laid down you didn't give his belly a good skritching. Maybe you did but I wasn't there to see it... But human nature says that after getting a traumatic rat bite you are not going to be nearly as assertive as if you had not started your immersion with a nasty bite.

With Amelia she came in terrified and shell shocked. He go to move was freeze up not attack. For this my 6 year old daughter came in handy. She took Amelia from the lady we got her from and carried her in her arms on the way back, with instructions not to let her get lose in the car as we didn't bring a cage along to pick up our new rat. So Amelia struggled a little but over the first half hour during the ride home she was confined in my daughter's arms getting hugs and skritches whether she liked it or not. We used a hallway/staircase for our immersion. When we got home we stopped in the hallway/staircase. Fuzzy Rat and myself parked ourselves on the stairs and my daughter hit the floor with Amelia. Pulling pushing playing, chasing and poking. Naturally when Amelia ran around it delighted my daughter who stayed in hot pursuit, and as soon as she stopped she got snatched up and fondled. It looked a little bit like a cat playing with a mouse and/or a little kid with a new toy. After things settled down, and I can honestly not say what the exact sign was Fuzzy Rat jumped down from the steps by herself and greeted Amelia, There was a lot of butt sniffing going on at first. Then they stood and boxed and when I realized just how outclassed Fuzzy Rat was I reached in and broke it up a few times. Then suddenly Fuzzy Rat stood broadside to Amelia who stood up to her full height and pushed Fuzzy Rat with one paw, Fuzzy Rat just rolled over on her side like a tipped cow and Amelia went right to grooming her belly. The Fuzzy Rat started running around the floor with Amelia in hot pursuit. This was not hostile, but rather two rats exploring together and playfully chasing each other. After they separated for more than a few seconds they did the butt sniffing thing over and over each time they bounced off each other. My daughter pretty much conked out on the floor and Amelia ran all over her and when she didn't react she started climbing the stairs more often to get to me, she had been doing it all along but not too much and I started playfully scooping her up and hugging her and skritching her. Amelia didn't nap on me, nor did she stay long with me. A few times she jumped up on my sleeping daughter and stood up on her hind feet to challenge me. I pretty much let that slide as she was after all deriving her courage from being bonded with my daughter. Or maybe she was defending her sleeping packmate? It didn't matter, the rats are foremost supposed to be my daughter's pets and that immersion was smashingly successful. It got to be about 5 AM, and my daughter was fast asleep on the floor, Fuzzy Rat was alternatively napping next to me and roaming around with Amelia, they still butt sniffed whenever they met but were cordial. Amelia would sit, still a little wary next to or on my daughter and sometimes jump up into my lap on the stairs for a little attention and yes if I moved too quickly she was still skittish, but she would run and then rebound to me.

That's where I called it. I put Fuzzy Rat and Amelia in Fuzzy Rat's cage and they immediately sunggled up onto a ball together, I carried my daughter to bed and I had a cup of coffee and a smoke and listened from the next room in case something went wrong with the rats for a while. Satisfied that life was ok, I finally watched the sunrise and packed it in myself.

We started at 10 PM and I hit the sack at 7 AM. 

I mistook Amelia's docile behavior when we met her as being friendly... After Amelia spent 3 weeks on my desk without exploring or moving from the spot, I came to realize it was PTSD. She was way beyond being aggressive she was shell shocked. If my daughter hadn't been so over the top in her face, chances are she would have just hid in the corner and never come out during immersion. And of course, it was interesting to note that Fuzzy Rat kept her distance until my daughter had pretty much finished immersing Amelia. She sat on a step just watching and occasionally grooming until she saw something she was waiting for before she jumped in to the fray. It was also striking how fast her introduction went. Some tail sniffing, three quick rounds of boxing and the cow tip get groomed maneuver then play with new friend... All done in about half an hour. 

Amelia's primary bond is still to my daughter, but when my daughter gets too carried away Amelia runs to me for protection. Today I took a catnap on my office floor for an hour. Amelia woke me twice by pulling my mouth open and cleaning my teeth, groomed my whiskers a few times ran over me several times and when I woke up I called her and she popped right up on my shoulder looking down at me as if she had been napping right next to me all the while... She might not like skritches much but that kind of works for me, given how screwed up she was when we got her.

So not actually seeing Ike I can't say how screwed up he is but the way he submits to Doug should look like the way he submits to you. Maybe you might bring both Doug and Ike into the immersion room if Doug is already bonded to you and Doug can show Ike how he is supposed to interact with you. Next don't worry about trauma. Rats don't easily traumatize their behavior will change and it has to change in accordance to what they learn. Changes in behavior are normal and necessary.

So if you aren't getting bit anymore something very important has changed. I think your getting bit was a hard start to the process and may have colored your interaction with Ike. If you hadn't been bit, I think you would have made more out of the bonding opportunities you had when Ike laid down or climbed on you and given him more meaningful affection. 

Remember when you get to the point of him jumping on you that's when you really go over the top to welcome him into your pack and hug and skritch and love all over him. When my daughter does it the poor rat looks like a rag doll.

This isn't a matter of you doing something wrong, you just got a nasty bite and you worked through it... that's actually very brave. But your momma didn't raise a kid stupid enough to want to get bit twice so you were most likely a little overly cautious when it came time to get all huggey and lovey. So first you really need to feel comfortable with the fact that Ike isn't going to bite you again before you really make progress and second you might want to work with Doug first if he's the dominant rat.

Like I said lab rats are among the toughest cases to socialize. They are always neglected and usually abused. Any human interaction they have had has been bad or even painful. They come from a very sensory deprived environment and very likely they have had to fight for their status all of their lives. Even Amelia had some human contact and there was a little girl in her former family that might have sometimes been nice to her. At the playground Amelia seems much friendlier towards little girls than anyone else. So we may have had a touch point to start with. And of course, Amelia had Fuzzy Rat as a roommate and in the immersion area. Fuzzy Rat is a true shoulder rat, which makes her about the most highly bonded and trained, super laid back role model that any rat can have.

Don't be discouraged, like I said, I see progress from where you are starting... We did one immersion where the rat spent most of the sessioins flat out attacking his owners outright and everything revolved around thick gloves protective clothing and bath towels. Once the rat gave up being hostile, it went though a period of fear and ran away, then grudging respect and manageability and finally it bonded once the owners could work up the courage to handle him. The turning points were when the rat became manageable, then when the owners worked up the trust to take charge and handle him and then when the rat finally felt welcomed into his new pack. This is a two way communication, your rat has been hurt by people and you have been hurt by your rat... and you naturally picked the worst possible rat to start working with... So yes this isn't going to be a sing along!

Lastly, we've fixed rats more screwed up than yours, but not by very much. These kinds of immersions all had some really ugly moments where bath towels and gloves are the only thing keeping the humans safe. And a few owners had to get pretty "brutal" to establish their status. But they all ended with affectionate bonding. How long it took and what course each one took between the start and finish depended on how screwed up the rats were and how skilled the humans were and interpreting their rats communications and in expressing their intentions on their rats. The important think is to work through it moment by moment and be very persistent. I never recommend lab rats to anyone, especially new owners. Every new owner should start out with a fresh happy healthy little pup or two that had human contact before it was even weaned and was first handled by an experienced breeder. But you are where you are now and you have to decide if you are going to fix Doug and Ike or get rid of them and start over. It's a hard choice, and it would be much easier to start over, on the other hand most likely Doug and Ike can be fixed and it sounds like you might already be through the biting part which is the hardest. So it's your call.

And by the way, there are no other methods that won't require you to be in direct contact with your rats and face the dangers of getting bit sooner or later. At least in immersion you power though this phase and try to move on to the better stuff. 

Hope any of this helps...

Best luck.


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## Pseudonym (Jun 9, 2013)

This is going to the last time I use this account. I'm only posting to bring closure to this thread in case that anyone else is reading as many immersion threads as possible before actually trying it (just as I did).

I did immersion one last time with Ike 4 days ago for 5 hours, after which he seemed to be more relaxed and happy. However, Ike died today in an accident caused by my own neglect.

Rat Daddy, thank you for the advice you have given me and other users to guide us through this process. I know that it is going to be tough for you when your girls pass away, but I really _*really*_ hope you stay on this forum and continue shaping immersion. I know that underneath all the fear and aggression, Ike could have been a loving rat. And I feel that if it hadn’t been for immersion, I wouldn’t have been able to see him come out of his shell (at least a little bit) before he died.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Pseudonym,

If you are still about to read this reply... You and Doug have my most heartfelt condolences. I've lost rats too. And like you I can rewind the events to precisely where I screwed up.

I won't lie, it doesn't ever feel better, but if you have learned something your a better rat parent than you were the day before the tragedy.

Take good care of Doug, he's going to need more of your attention right now and keep in mind there's another lonely rat out there that needs a loving home. I'm sure you gave Ike your best and sometimes things just go wrong. You are still on your way towards being a great rat parent, so don't give up.

Yes we are gong to miss Fuzzy Rat when she passes. In fact it's going to break our hearts to shards... But perhaps there'll be another little rat born one day that is going to need a good home and a chance to become a great shoulder rat too. And I suppose I'd like to be there to see it happen.

So until I can be of any further service to you and Doug, take good care of each other and be well.


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