# A lot of questions.



## Penelepe (Jan 12, 2014)

Hi all. I'm getting my 2 girls at the end of the month and I have a lot of questions that are probably stupid but oh well. Lol. They will be 6 weeks when I pick them up. 

1. When I get them, is it needed to leave them alone for a day or so to udjust or isnt it needed? 

2. I've heard of methods of picking them up. Can anyone explain it to me?

3. I might get a bonding pouch. Are these actually useful?

4. Is this cage okay for 2 girls? I cant upload pic atm but the measurements are 76cm(l)x45cm(w)x89cm(h)

5. How can I make them comfy on the road home? 

6. Can I use an ordinary bearded dragon harness if I need to use it to take the girls to the vet or to ride along to the shop? 

7. Anyone here own both a dragon and rats? If so is it okay for them to free roam the bathroom while I am bathing my babies (dragons) 

8. The woman at the pet shop gave me advice and with previoua experience with advice for my dragons I know better to ask first. She told me they should eat everything I eat. Like bread, chicken, and sunflower seeds. I know that they need a balanced healthy diet so I doubt what she says is true. But I just want to make sure.

9. What is bruxing? 

10. Anything important I should know? 

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## relken0608 (Jul 11, 2013)

I wish I was on my computer since my phone doesn't let me read your questions as I reply :/

1) yes and no. When you first bring them home (assuming the cage is set up and ready ) you'll want to take them out and kind of introduce yourself. Usually the bathroom is a good place to start. Bring some treats, yogies from the pet store or break off prices of pretzel sticks or bread. They can pretty much eat what we eat but there are afrange random things like mangoes that are actually bad for them-- there's a ratty diet sticky in the health boards that will go over all that. Another one to read is the immersion sticky in the behavior boards. Read it before you bring them home haha it'll help you see where they are coming from. 

As far as picking them up, its called the scoop method. Since they're prey animals they will get frightened if you grab them from behind their backs-- and NEVER lift by the tail, its part of their spinal cord and is a bad idea. Instead use two hands to scoop them up from underneath and raise them slowly. If their tail starts to windmill that means they feel unsupported like they're about to fall, adjust them so that their back feet are in your hands. 

I know nothing about bearded dragons, but I think that until your rats really know and trust you maybe having them together with your dragon would be a little risky. 

Hope that helps a little 

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## relken0608 (Jul 11, 2013)

Unfortunately that harness will be utterly useless :/ rats are really good at wiggling their way out of things and I've bought at least 3 different kinds of harnesses and they can just backpedal out of all of them. 


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## Penelepe (Jan 12, 2014)

Thank you so much for the reply! I will def be reading the stickies. Oh and is it okay to put a "pool" in for them on warm days? Its summer here in SA and we are having suckishly high temps. Just so they can cool off. I read that I can put q frozen bottle in a towel in their cage also is that fine?


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## relken0608 (Jul 11, 2013)

Bruxing is a funny little noise rats make when wither happy, or stressed out. They are actually kind of chattering their teeth, it makes an airy/clicky/chattering sound. Sometimes if they are really happy they'll also boggle-their eyes will bulge in and out rapidly. I find it kind of creepy but its a good sign. A other sign of happiness is when they wag or wiggle their tails--adorable!! 

Handle them daily even if its just for fifteen minutes. Make the time to spend with them. I learned the hard way that these guys are clever and they know when your ignoring them or are too busy for them, and they'll let you know they're unhappy with that. Really they should get an hour a day but if you don't have an hour, give them any time you've got-- and plenty of treats to make up for it. Soon you'll see that they are thinking, smart creatures with emotions and personalities and they are wonderful to have as friends and companions 

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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

1. When I get them, is it needed to leave them alone for a day or so to udjust or isnt it needed? 
It isn't especially necessary. I wouldn't, I'd bring them out to play almost immediately.

2. I've heard of methods of picking them up. Can anyone explain it to me?
You don't want to come at the rat from above and pick it up like a claw machine would a prize -- that's very much like a predator. You want to come from the sides and "scoop" them up. Use both hands until they're socialized.

3. I might get a bonding pouch. Are these actually useful?
Shy rats benefit from something close to this, but a hoodie's pocket, hood if it is warn backwards or even straight under the hoodie on you is so much better.

4. Is this cage okay for 2 girls? I cant upload pic atm but the measurements are 76cm(l)x45cm(w)x89cm(h)
About four to five rats can fit.

5. How can I make them comfy on the road home? 
Keep the ride smooth, your radio quiet, beware overheating/overcooling, and cover the cage.

6. Can I use an ordinary bearded dragon harness if I need to use it to take the girls to the vet or to ride along to the shop? 
Rats and harnesses don't mix well. I'd avoid it. Most people would prefer they be in a carrier at the vet anyway.

7. Anyone here own both a dragon and rats? If so is it okay for them to free roam the bathroom while I am bathing my babies (dragons) 
Rats are predators. If they believe the dragon seems easy enough to take down, they'll try.

8. The woman at the pet shop gave me advice and with previoua experience with advice for my dragons I know better to ask first. She told me they should eat everything I eat. Like bread, chicken, and sunflower seeds. I know that they need a balanced healthy diet so I doubt what she says is true. But I just want to make sure.
It is best to get a staple diet, such as a lab block. They can SNACK on SOME of what you eat, if it is healthy.

9. What is bruxing? 
A happy sound rats make by grinding their teeth together.

10. Anything important I should know? 
If at all possible, a breeder would be well worth the money. The rats come pre-socialized and unscrewed up. Make sure that they free range for at least one hour a day, and to spend much of that time doting on them as you can.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

1. When I get them, is it needed to leave them alone for a day or so to udjust or isnt it needed? 

No, it's a bad idea to leave them alone to sit in their cage in terror... be there for them right from the start to welcome them to their new family and home.... Check out my thread on Immersion at the top of the behavior section... You only get one opportunity to take advantage of your new rats disorientation to make friends for life.

2. I've heard of methods of picking them up. Can anyone explain it to me?

I pretty much just scoop up rats, people who handle animals tentatively tend to get bit more often...

3. I might get a bonding pouch. Are these actually useful?

Yes, but if you start with the right rats you shouldn't need it.


5. How can I make them comfy on the road home? 

My daughter usually holds and snuggles with the new rats on the ride home... 

6. Can I use an ordinary bearded dragon harness if I need to use it to take the girls to the vet or to ride along to the shop? 

NO.. rats are escape artists. With the exception of true shoulder rats, rats should be transported in safe carriers. True shoulder rats are highly trained and experienced rats that don't need leashes to travel outdoors.

7. Anyone here own both a dragon and rats? If so is it okay for them to free roam the bathroom while I am bathing my babies (dragons) 

This is hit or miss... some rats are quick to kill (and eat) small animals others seem to get along with everything... 

8. The woman at the pet shop gave me advice and with previoua experience with advice for my dragons I know better to ask first. She told me they should eat everything I eat. Like bread, chicken, and sunflower seeds. I know that they need a balanced healthy diet so I doubt what she says is true. But I just want to make sure.

The woman in the pet shop is right... the best rat diet is made from human grade foods. And if you have food in the house you can eat, your rats will never starve. But there's more to "good rat nutrition" than just feeding them human foods. Just like all human food isn't good for all humans if eaten in haphazard quantities. A diet of 100% cookies and McDonalds is neither good for humans nor rats. Rats tend to do best on a diet of grains and veggies with some fruits and a little meat or beans mixed in. Humans tend to require more proteins and we all eat too much sugar and salt.. But yes if it tastes good to you your rats will like it too. Bring home some rat food when you buy your rats and then take some time to learn about rat nutrition... For young and growing rats I tend to recommend Mizzuri rat and mouse diet, it's formulated for growing and lactating rats and is used by many commercial breeders. As much as it's a crummy food for adult rats, young and active rats do well with it as a starter food and it promotes fast growth. And it's cheap.

10. Anything important I should know?

YES.... test drive your rats BEFORE you bring them home! They should be friendly and curious and healthy and active. They should be interested in exploring you and you should be able to manage them at the store or breeder's place (with a little assistance from someone with experience).... Leave rats that seem terrified of you or are aggressive or seem thin and sick or sluggish behind.... Rats that bite are big trouble, and rats that are sick get very expensive very quickly... We choose only very friendly rats or small pups, so yes, my 8 year old daughter can snuggle with them on the way home in the car.

Best luck.


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## relken0608 (Jul 11, 2013)

I know very little about warmth :/ a few days ago it was -14 here and it's still only 30 so i'm more worried about keeping them away from the cold. I have heard of people doing that, though. Typically rats are afraid of water and will avoid it but i remember reading a thread where he put in one of those metal dog bowls and put a little water in it. They just tossed their food and bedding and toys into the water though lol

yes, you can freeze a water bottle for the car ride and they'll snuggle it if they get too hot. 

As far as for the cage, some people buy a tile or two and put those in there. The tiles keep their cold well, and as a bonus they'll help keep nails trimmed. Im still somewhat new to this but i'm pretty sure its safe to say that every rat owner has scratches on their arms and shoulders because no matter how short their ratties nails are, they're still sharp.


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## Penelepe (Jan 12, 2014)

Thabk you all for your replies. It is really helpful. Im on my phone so cant quote or anything right now but thank you so much! 

I'm from south africa and we only have about 2 or 3 breeders close by. But I know the benefit of getting an animal from a breeder. So Im getting my girls from a breeder. $25 adoption fee. Which around here is not so cheap but will be well worth it. I already asked the breeder to show me the basics and such when I get there. 

Oh I scanned through your immersion guide this afternoon while at work and its a great guide! This weekend I will read in detail. 

Sorry all for the strange questions and such. I'm so used to the bearded dragon care that I totally forget that not all animals are as sensitive to things like a new environment. 

-can they digest milk products? 

Also I'm going to the farm for a few days after I get them and I would feel more comfortable bringing them with me but I just want to make sure. Is it okay to travel long distances with them? 

I will probably cuddle them on the way home and to the farm when my mom isnt driving. Yeah she is one of those people who think rats are evil and filthy. But i know she'll fall in love with them. 

Its summer here so its getting warmer by the day. I know some rats like bathing while others absolutely hate it. So I assume its the same for swimming? 

I will be "studying" and doing more research and reading guides on my free time. And maybe while at work but shhhh lol. Thank you all so much for the help!


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## Penelepe (Jan 12, 2014)

Also on the subject of food. We dont have those products here. And the only rat food available is one pack of rat blocks in the whole town. But by the time I get paid and able to get it. It will probably be gone. So is there any recipes around? I saw one the health board one or 2. But I like variety so the more recipes the better!


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## Perocore (Jan 6, 2014)

Since I also am a reptile and soon-to-be-rattie owner I can tell you it is not a good idea to let the beardies and rats be able to touch one another. I've been told seeing them should not stress the rats out (and depending on the temperment of your beardies, they shouldn't be freaked either), but both rats and beardies are predators, and depending on how old your beardies are they could each do some serious damage to one another. Also there's a concern of germs getting passed, as a general rule I keep the mammals strictly separated from the reptiles (I have 4 leo's and an iguana). My rabbits and gerbils have seen the lizards and neither much mind each other (they fascinate the iggy, but the geckos ignore them), but I wouldn't let them in the same room without the safety net of the lizard's tanks. 

Are you getting the rats from a breeder? If so s/he can probably tell you where to get food or what to feed  My breeder feeds hers a mix of cereals, grains, seeds, dried fruits, and fresh foods. 

I'll have to let you know how the boys respond to seeing the reptiles for the first time (they'll all be living in my room)! I'm guessing that since they're just babes they shouldn't get too freaked out, and the lizards take everything in a stride (though one of my younger leo's stalks cats through his tank). Even my rather spazzy juvenile iguana is relaxed about anything rabbit size or smaller.


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## Penelepe (Jan 12, 2014)

Thank you for the reply. I understand yes. I was of course hoping that it would be safe but it's understandable why not. I think I may buy online. I just have to find an online shop that is not too far away to lower the cost of delivery. 

The plan is to have the rat house and if my mom agrees. A play pen. With the dragon cages directly accross from the rats. So they will see each other alot. 

Also what can I put around the cage bars to minimize potential injuries done by the cats. I wont ever allow the cats around on their free roam time but times when I am around to make sure they dont hurt the girls.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

As a true shoulder rat owner and trainer, I take my rats outdoors to play and travel more than most people. When the temperature hits about 82 degrees F. rats start to drool then they get really flat and press their bodies to the ground and will dig into their bedding or dirt if outdoors.... then they pretty much die. Dark rats in direct sunlight do worse than white ones. Rats drool but don't sweat so this temperature is really pretty much a wall you can't overcome with a fan.

When we take our rats out in the summer, we take a spray bottle of water along and by keeping your rat soaked and in a natural breeze you can go over the 82-84 degree limit for quite a while... basically you are faking sweat. Cold tiles and ice packs are short term solutions as are spray bottles and wind or fans... So you either need to have air conditioning or a cool room in a hot climate.

The brown rat or Norway rat really isn't designed to take heat, where it does live in warmer climates it spends much of it's time underground where it is cool. In tropical climates black rats do better. They are a tree rat that can take higher temperatures. They are also very smart and can make excellent pets but are generally no longer being domesticated in either the UK or USA. And they don't currently come in different colors although there was once a green morph about 100 years ago in England.

Basically, if you are going to keep brown rats in a hot climate, you will need air conditioning or a root cellar. 

As to swimming, all rats are great swimmers, but you have to be realistic, while we enjoy taking our rats to the mountains and take them swimming, having rats floating about in their cage to stay alive for weeks at a time is not a solution. We did have our rat overheat on a long car ride once when it got unexpectedly hot, we stopped and let her cool off in a brook near the roadside... but she was a shoulder rat and would not run away... this isn't much of a plan for an untrained rat.

As to cats, I had a part wild rat that hated and attacked cats and there are some cats that will attack rats and there are other cases where everyone gets along... there's not good advise on this topic and almost any outcome is possible including some pretty awful ones.

Best luck.


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## Penelepe (Jan 12, 2014)

Thank you! Actually great insight if you know the history. I will defnitly take an ice pack and such with for in case it gets warm in the car and on the farm. Is that okay? I'll wrap it in a towel. They will decide when they need to cool off right? I dont have to force them to cool down? Just want to make sure.

We have 5 cats and only mine has a chance of accepting the girls. But I wont let her in the room during free roaming. Accidents happen fast so I won't take that risk

Thank you all for the replies


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Rats instinctively dig downwards when they are too hot and otherwise lose their better judgment ... but generally they can tell hot from cold.


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## Penelepe (Jan 12, 2014)

Oh thank you! Now new questions

The woman which I am adopting from has a list on daily, weekly and monthly care. Daily is fill bowl woth dry food. 
Breakfast: 1/2 - 1 tspn baby pronutro mixed with water. Junior viral gaurd for 2 weeks, skip one week. 
Treats through the day. 
Dinner : fresh veggies , fruit, brown rice, brown bread ect

Weekly she gives them Rooibos tea in their water bottles with 1 tspn sugar.

Now the question is, when I get them, is there any thing I should chang


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## Penelepe (Jan 12, 2014)

*cont* change in this schedule. Do they need vitamin supplements? The junior viral gaurd is for vitamins but do I need anything else?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Well, with a good diet, supplementing with vitamins wouldn't exactly be necessary. There are some things that you can use, especially for males and kidney issues, but that is usually later in life.

I found some things:
http://www.ratanooga.co.za/ratanooga-diet/ and http://forums.ratanooga.co.za/index.php?/topic/2148-ratanoonga-home-mix-rattie-food/ which are meant for SA


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## Penelepe (Jan 12, 2014)

Thank you for the links, why didn't I think of going on that forum? Sometimes I'm a bit stupid lol I'll go check it out now


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

It doesn't mean you have to leave this forum, I just thought it'd help to have people around you able to help


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## Penelepe (Jan 12, 2014)

Defnitly not leaving but didn't think to look there for homemade recipes because not all the stuff mentioned here we can get for some home made recipes lol. I find this forum very helpful


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I found this when perusing that forum! http://www.ohmyrat.com/


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## relken0608 (Jul 11, 2013)

Milk products; sort of. Stores sell yogies, little flavored yogurt drops, and of course they love cheese too! But they're actually lactose intolerant...or somesuch. I'm still new to this too so i'm not sure what exactly is going on in their little tummies, but a lot of milk will make them unhappy ratties  you'll notice on the back of a yogie bag is said 1-2 a day--that's not a lot of milk. 

There are some recipes on the health forums but also a lot of people pointing out that to get a solid, nutritious, balanced diet you'll need to be buying expensive mineral compounds and offtimes the cost doesn't exactly add up with all the effort. 

I'm way over in the US so i don't know if this site would work for you http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=24486886&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No but here's a link to a petsmart, selling the most recomended brand on this forum. Oxbow is really good stuff. I'm not sure if you have petsmarts where you are...Try ordering bags online, or ask the breeder where he/she gets theirs maybe.

Long car rides are okay--but you'll want to be very careful about overheating. And yes, it would probably be a better idea to take them with since it'll be right smack after you get them lol they'll want to know that you're the one that's there for them, snuggling and keeping them safe, when they're in an 'uncomfortable' situation. Freeze a water bottle or bring some sliced cucumber or watermelon. No mango, though. If you have any of those like...aromatherapy bead/sand filled bags--the kinds that you put in the microwave and then put on your neck and shoulders to ease muscles or whatever? Those easily chill in the freezer and i imagine they'd retain their cool temp. in an airconditioned car. Your car does have AC...? That might be a gamechanger, so make sure it's on while youre driving lol There's also a concern for them getting too cold, but i don't think that'll be an issue for you


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## Penelepe (Jan 12, 2014)

Thank you for the link! I checked it out and will most likely be ordering there after I get my cage. Im getting most of the fleece products like hammocks. Cubes and all those with my cage. 

Sadly I checked and we dont have that product. We dont have petsmarts and petcos here. Also I decided to go to the farm before I get them. The car ride is no problem but we are expecting a heat wave and because there is only power in the evening I dont have a fan or anything to cool down. And I will moat likely have to help with crops so I wont be able to monitor them. It sucks to wait a little longer but probably for the best


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## Penelepe (Jan 12, 2014)

Guys I finally have updated pics of the girls!








Is it just me or does Tawny (left one) have ruby or red eyes? Or is it my imagination?


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

It's hard to tell, natural eyes look brownish in daylight, but there is a black-ruby variant that will flash red in the right electric light and look black otherwise, they may look greenish in sunlight. Our high white has these black-ruby eyes. They look jet black, but flash bright as stop lights when the light hits them right.


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