# Is it safe for a 1 year old rat to undergo surgery for a mammary tumor?



## Mattsrats (Feb 24, 2014)

I was holding Gwen today and found a rather large mammary tumor by her right hind leg.

She is just over 1 year old and I was curious if it was safe to have it removed and have her spayed? I read that the older a rat gets the more dangerous surgery can be.

I called my vet to make an appointment for Gwen but the vet was not in today. The person I spoke to on the phone said he wasn't certain but he didn't think the vet did surgeries as extensive as removing a mammary tumor? I just got off the phone with 2 other exotic pet vets and they said NO to operating on a rat for mammary tumors. Is it really that invasive of a surgery?

I am starting to get PO'd thinking about these vets after I just lost Chloe and Dozer. I refuse to loose Gwen now too but I'm worried my vet will say no as well, and what do I do if I can't find one that will agree to it?

She such a nice rat and is sound asleep in my lap as I am typing this....not even my keyboard clicking is waking her up.

How can you say no this face?


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

No, it is generally a routine surgery. Well, as routine as it can be.

My girl was spayed after a uterine tumor was causing her to bleed out at 2.5yrs. Having a healthy rat, and a vet using proper techniques is key.


----------



## autokate (Mar 17, 2014)

I completely agree with nanashi7. My guy had a tumor removal surgery at almost 2yo. The risk of surgery is dependent on the health of a rat. I just had two of my younger guys (recently rescued from a local shelter) neutered and they are about a year old each. No problems with that. I understand the spay surgery is a little more involved, but from what I've read on spaying, it's better late than never, because stopping hormonal production is key to a healthy rat. I would personally attempt a tumor removal surgery at any age as long as the rat is otherwise healthy.

Keep calling exotic vets to find one who is open to performing the surgeries you want, set up a consult appointment to discuss surgery options, prices, etc., then schedule the surgery. These vets who are telling you 'no' don't seem to have much knowledge with rats. I could understand if they just didn't have the surgical experience, but if they call themselves 'exotic', they should know the details that we as rat owners know after discussing here and scouring the internet for knowledge. They are doctors and should already have this knowledge of what's doable and what's not. Just my two cents worth.

And OMG Gwen is precious!!!!!


----------



## Cloud (Jan 16, 2011)

I agree with everyone else, any decent vet would do it.Pretty much all our females have started getting tumors and they are around 2.5yrs old now. One by one they're each getting booked for surgery for removal. Three have had theirs removed now at the same age and no issues what so ever!


----------



## autokate (Mar 17, 2014)

Cloud said:


> I agree with everyone else, any decent vet would do it.Pretty much all our females have started getting tumors and they are around 2.5yrs old now. One by one they're each getting booked for surgery for removal. Three have had theirs removed now at the same age and no issues what so ever!


Cloud, are your females spayed? Just curious if they are still getting tumors even after being spayed. I only have males, so this is strictly for my own personal knowledge gathering


----------



## Willieboo (Oct 22, 2012)

I also think it depends on the rat. I have an exotic pets vet a street over from my house, and he does mammary tumor removals all the time. So for a decent quality vet, removing that tumor should be no problem at all. 1 year old rats are still quite young, and are more likely to recoup quickly.
My rat was 1 year old when she had her large mammary tumor removed. The only thing that set her back a little was that her tumor had a large artery feeding it which bled quite a bit when they removed the mass, so she was tired and sluggish for a few days. 
Her tumor had tripled in size in about 2-3 months, which is faster than normal, so I was told, and it was because of the artery that fed it. Even still she was fine--and really, though I was nervous, it was worth it to me for her to have surgery and be able to see her tumor-free and happy again rather than watch it weigh her down and shorten the rest of her life. Just some things to think about.


----------



## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

1 year old isnt old for a rat by quite a way. Id start thinking a bit harder over 2 years old maybe. At 1 and if she was fit and healthy i would look to get the lump removed and her spayed as she's young to have got a mammary lump so will probably be prone to getting more, spaying will reduce that chance (but not remove it, after all bucks can and do get mammary lumps, just very rarely).

Id still try and get a vet experienced with rat surgery as theres some things that increase the chance of the rat doing well. Theres always a risk with any surgery though, and if its in an awkward position it does make it harder. Spaying is more invasive too, but ti could prevent her from going through this again in another 6 months so probably worth it unless she doesnt do well under aneasthetic


----------



## Mattsrats (Feb 24, 2014)

I appreciate all the advice.

I guess I was wrong about those amazing vet prices. My vet office does rat neuters but no spaying and the person that quoted me is mysteriously not there anymore. They said the Dr. can perform an exam and offer me some advice but wouldn't tell me if the vet would actually remove the mass or not. I am not gonna pay some idiot for a consult just to have to go elsewhere for another GD consult from someone new. Even if I trusted her to remove the tumor, I would still want Gweny spayed at the same time so she didn't have to undergo 2 stressful vet visits.

It is almost 2pm CST and I have been calling vets off and on since 9am with no real luck. The only vet I have found so far is the Vet med at ISU where my friend works. They quoted me at over $400 and my friend can't help cause she is gone for 2 weeks.

I have been keeping an emergency vet fund under the prices and expenses previously quoted by my vet so $400 is like 2x what I set aside. (And yes I attempted to get a credit card just for vet visits... they said I don't have bad credit, it is just non-existent so no dice)

It's odd, I am a very calm laid back person except when it comes to the health and well being of animals.

I am leaving in 3-4 hrs for my first vacation & camping trip in 5 years and I don't want to spend the next 3 days PO'd.

Oh well I guess I will go look for a couple more hrs.


----------



## Mattsrats (Feb 24, 2014)

Well, no luck today and not for a lack of trying.... I have been at it all day.

I guess the best thing I can do now is relax and go enjoy my vacation as family will be there who I haven't seen since before my gastric bypass. (LOL When I last saw my cousin in 2008 was 650lbs, now im 210lbs!).

I will start broadening my search a few miles out from my city on monday or tuesday.

Do mammary tumors grow fast? I swear I didn't see up till yesterday but I wasn't necessarily looking too hard either. I guess worst comes to worst I find a vet that will at least remove the tumor....that isn't the nasty prices I've been getting, it's the spaying that is trying to break me.

I have mild anxiety issues so I tend to overreact or get VERY anxious VERY quickly and panic sometimes where panic is not necessarily needed. With the loss of Chloe and especially Dozer I am a bit shell-shocked at the moment when it comes to my rats so I have been babying them for the past couple of days.


----------



## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

They generally don't grow massively fast, 2 weeks shouldn't make a big difference, a month might. Keep get on a low prurient low fat diet and keep her son and that will show the growth of it.


----------



## autokate (Mar 17, 2014)

I definitely suggest looking further than the city you live in. I drive a minimum of 30 minutes (with no traffic) to my exotic/ratty vet. My vet charges $85 for neuters and $125 for spays on rats. It obviously costs more to do a surgery as well. A tumor removal I had done last year was about $300 plus meds. These are competitive prices here in the Dallas, TX area. I would definitely suggest you look for vets in the nearest major city to help keep costs down. The more rural/small-town-city you are, the more an exotic vet will try to charge (at least that's what I'm finding to be the case after reading all the posts here!). Good luck to you, congrats on all your weight loss, and have a great weekend camping with your family!


----------



## Mattsrats (Feb 24, 2014)

Thank you Autokate~

We opted to postpone the camping trip because of dark clouds and there is a massive storm front moving into the area that has already begun and expected to last through Saturday. 

So I will use the time off to look for other exotic vets. My regular vet is amazing and I have been taking my cat to her for years but they really need a different exotic vet. If it comes down to not finding a good exotic for the spaying and tumor removal then I will forgo the spaying for now. The tumor is the immediate threat it would seem and there is plenty of places around here that do that. From what I could gather talking to the places I called they said it was very invasive to spay a rat so they don't offer that service. I was referred to a different clinic (Not the one that quoted $400+) within the ISU Veterinary College that specializes in exotics but they haven't returned my call yet. 

Had I caught this 2 days earlier I wouldn't spent so much money working on my car and put that off for a month or 2. Volvo S80's are NOT cheap when it comes to the parts being an import and all. 

I love all my rats but Gweny is easily my favorite with the napping in my lap. Her sister Izzy is from the same litter while my other 2 are 6-7 months old and all 3 of them are so hyper that it's hard to take good pics of them.


----------



## autokate (Mar 17, 2014)

I totally understand about wanting to continue using your regular vet. I too have a different vet for my dogs, and I love her to death, and she's only 7 minutes from my home. I would drive an hour away to ensure an excellent ratty vet was working on my guys! Luckily it's only a 30 minute drive. 

Good luck in your search! Oh and I'm not sure if you've looked into it, but I use CareCredit for all my vet bills. Last year my vet bill was around $3k between my 4 (now 3) ratties and 5 dogs! I just keep paying it off forever it seems and once it's paid then it starts again lol! I don't have the greatest of credit due to a past divorce and am trying to clean up the credit score, but CareCredit approved me. I think as long as you have a job you can get approved. Good luck to you!


----------



## Mattsrats (Feb 24, 2014)

Ok, thanks for the tip and I will definitely look into that. 

Spent over $600 in car parts which I installed myself (haven't taken a car to a mechanic in 10+ years).....two days later I find the tumor. 

Worst luck ever~


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Mattsrats, cut out all her sugar and order turkey tail mushroom capsules. These two measures can shrink or stop tumor growth. There was a third but I am half asleep and cannot for the life rememver it. Hopefully someone chips in. At the least these can work as preventatives until you find a doc or save up enough. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Mattsrats (Feb 24, 2014)

Thanks Nanashi,

I have enough $$$ if I can just find a **** exotic vet. ISU Vet Med is amazing I am told but one of the most expensive places in the whole state (400 quote).

I looked into the Creditcare suggestion but there isn't and exotic vet in a 100 mile radius of me that excepts it. 

Will Gwen eat turkey tail mushroom capsules? My girls refuse pretty much everything I have ever tried home remedy wise. 

If I cut Gwen's sugar intake from fruit and whatnot I will have to cut it from all of the girls unless I should separate her from the other 3 for the time being?


----------



## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

The other girls will benefit from it too, rats shouldnt have much sugar, fresh berries being one ofmthe exception, though id only feed that once a week ish


----------



## Ilovemybabyrats (Feb 5, 2013)

Best of luck. My Cookie is also booked for Tumor removal at a year and a half. She'll be two on Nov. 15. What I've heard really makes it sound promising.


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Amelia lived over a year with a very slow growing tumor then it just started growing real fast when she turned two. Fuzzy Rat started growing more and more tumors every week. She lasted only 7 months from the onset, and turmor removal would have been a complete waste of time as they were already multiplying like grapes on a vine.

One vet told me she had a terrific survival rat with mammary tumor surgery on rats. I asked about longevity, and she told me most of her older patients died about 3 weeks after the surgery. 

It's a craps shoot... some rats just keep getting tumors, some rats don't survive the surgery and some don't survive the recovery... Some mammary tumors are aggressive and some take forever to grow larger and don't much shorten your rats life although they do impact your rat's quality of life.

At $200.00, I think I would have taken a chance with Amelia as she only had a single tumor for a long time, but at $600.00 it was a stupid risk. I most likely would have tried surgery for Fuzzy Rat, but the only vet that would do it, flat out told me he was taking my money for killing our rat and if I wanted Fuzzy Rat put down there were cheaper and less painful ways to do it.

And I might add that if Fuzzy Rat couldn't come home after the surgery she would have to go to the overnight vet hospital and that would cost another $250.00 to $400.00. 

Now a friend spent $900.00 to prolong her bunny's life for 3 days, she didn't think money should be a factor in the care decision... I do take cost into account when it comes to rats. If I had a guaranteed six months to a year more with Fuzzy Rat, I'd have dropped the cash on the counter... but with a likelihood of death during surgery being very high and the likelihood of surviving the recovery being very low and the chances of recurring tumors being almost certain a $1000.00 vet bill seemed like a terrible investment. We still had 7 more months with her and we carried her around and took her everywhere even when she couldn't walk. And she still went out and did meet and greets and enjoyed meeting people and laying in the clovers in the sun until she was just a swiveling head on a blob of tumor masses. By not doing the surgery, she got 7 months she might not have had...

This is a tough call... a year old isn't too old, but there are lots of factors that weigh into your decision. Ask the tough questions when you talk to your vet and make the best choice for you and your rat.

Best luck.


----------



## Mattsrats (Feb 24, 2014)

Thank you Rat Daddy I apreciate the input. I have called over a dozen exotic vets in my area surrounding and ALL of them said no to surgery. I even called Furry Friends Rescue in Des Moines. They have all types of animals but their specialty is rabbits and rats as well as their own onsite clinic for spaying an neutering. They told me they don't operate on rats because of the risks being so high for rats. They referred me to another vet and he said no as well. I'm considering taking Gwen to the exotic vet at my clinic.....she neuters but no spay and she may remove the tumor depending on how bad it is. She will perform a full exam for $19 and then discuss options ... she said if she can't do it then she will find a reasonable exotic vet that would.

If Gweny had been my rat from say 4 months old then i would have np spending big $$$ but since she was rehomed to me at over a year old..... I have no idea what her medical history is. Given Chloe passed away already i am nervous about gwen and izzy having surgery of any kind. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## autokate (Mar 17, 2014)

Have you tried All-Pets Hospital in Des Moines to see what services they offer for rats? Their website does show tumor removal and neuters, but I'd call to verify first, especially to see if they spay.


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I had Fuzzy Rat examined by two specialists, it came down to a rather lengthy consultation, with one vet saying he could do the surgery and the other agreeing that it was doable, but would likely have a bad outcome. The consult was in March... Both vets agreed that due to her age she likely only had a few months left even with the surgery, if it were successful and if the tumors didn't grow back. You see rats don't get much over 2 years old tumors or no tumors. 2 1/2 years old is old for a rat. Fuzzy Rat lived until July 15. She made the four months even with the tumors. But she was very much disabled towards the end and had to be hand carried everywhere. On the other hand the best recovery would have been traumatic for her too...

Here's a couple pics...















That was about 4 months before she died, when we were evaluating our options, and then the tumors really started growing. Like I said one vet said he could operate, the other said it was a lost cause and they were in the same room... Neither vet offered even the slightest guarantee of long term success.

Surgery is more than just the money, it's a long list of variables. One small tumor might be more operable, but more can turn up quickly, rats don't do well under anesthesia and rats don't get old anyway.

I spoke to a lot of experts at the time and the best advise I think I got is that some things are doable, but just not worth doing. We were exploring options for Amelia when she just went into heart failure and died... She had a large tumor, but it's likely not what took her down. If we had spent $600.00 on her surgery, she most likely would have died on the very same day... 

There are no easy choices here. The vets that don't do rat surgery know what the likely outcomes are and that's why they don't do the surgery. At the very best, it's a big ticket coin toss, if you find someone to do the surgery and they are good at it.

Remember, rats aren't designed to live long lives. Removing a benign tumor from a dog that can live another 10 years or a human that can live another 40 is very different from a rat that's genetically designed to self destruct at 2.

I don't envy your situation...

Best luck.


----------



## Mattsrats (Feb 24, 2014)

Do they not put them under for neutering? Most vets i talked to are willing to neuter.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Mattsrats said:


> Do they not put them under for neutering? Most vets i talked to are willing to neuter.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


They do, but the invasiveness is different. With the balls, small incision and done. With the girls, they must enter the abdominal cavity. 

It is still ridiculous that they won't spay, but if they say no they probably aren't comfortable with it. You can get them removed and try to control any regrowth via diet. 

Surgeries aren't as riskier as they were. Anesthetic used to kill tons of rats, but protocol is different and we understand what to use, how much, and how to aid recovery in the two hours following. I have done three neuters and one spay with no fatalities (and the spay was the docs first...it was spay or die, and he had done spays on rabbits and guineas and such so I said go ahead)


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

What my vet does with lumpectomy and spays is she removes the lump first. If that was smooth and quick then she spays. If the op had gone on to long she doesn't. The longer a small animal is under the riskier it is. This minimises the risk unless it's a life or death. Maybe your vet will do this approach


----------



## Mattsrats (Feb 24, 2014)

I have made an appointment for next week, the lump isn't growing at the moment. I switched her treats to baby carrots and they love green onions/scallions.

I live on a high protein diet myself with no red meat, very little bread and a TON of salad so I often times chop some extra stuff up for the rats.

I let them have some of my spring mix lettuce as ice berg has no nutritional value whatsoever.

When I am cutting up stuff for a salad I can look over and see all these faces pressed against the cage on the top floor peeking at me.


----------



## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

I'd skip the lettuce and give them a bit of dark green leafy stuff instead, its much better for them, as is colourful veg.

I'm on a low carb diet myself (lots of veg, a bit higher protien, balanced carbs when i have them) so i often do a small helping of veg for the guys when i make up my food. When i do salads they might get a few of the better leaves in there (watercress and spinahce say) but they tend to get the other stuff like tomatoes, radish etc, not loads, but a small treat, then when i do stirfired veg, they get all the offcuts and a handful of the good stuff too before i cook it. As my hubby hates veg this means i get through quicker


----------

