# Strange Symptoms In Older Rat? Head Shaking and Bulging Eye?



## Shadow <3 (Jan 25, 2017)

Hey everyone, I've recently noticed some weird things going on with my old girl (2) Latte, and I'd like to know if anyone has any insight on what's going on.




The first "strange" thing started several weeks ago, right before I went on a month-long trip. I'm ashamed to say I didn't take much notice, as Latte was still active as ever, and didn't seem bothered. What seems to have happened is that one of her eyes is slightly enlarged. I mean, its such a slight change that you can only really tell from one angle, but that's not the weirdest thing about it. The strangest thing is that the affected eye is super clear. As in, you can easily see through it to the pupil inside, without having to look at it in a certain lighting/at a certain angle. Latte has black eyes, so normally its quite difficult to see her pupil. But here, it looks like the inside of the eye has been filled with transparent fluid, which can easily be seen through. And if you shine a light at it (not directly in her eyes, but in the vicinity), it reflects back a bright white (rather than a small shine like normal rat eyes reflect)! The eye isn't inflamed, swollen, or irritating her to any extent (as far as I can tell). She hasn't scratched it, has no extra eye boogers/porphyrin, and can close it without issue.




Her next "symptom" is shaking her head more than usual. This is a quick "dry off" shake that usually follows me touching certain parts of her face. She'll also occasionally do it on her own, but this seems more natural to me as I've seen all my rats shake their heads at one time or another. However, this isn't a once and a while thing. Instead, I'll see her shake her head 4-5 times a day, and I'm sure she's doing it more while in the cage. Its not a consistent action, but it makes me suspect she might have something like an inner ear infection (or at least something irritating her ears - which, btw, look/smell fine on the outside and inside (but I know inner ear infections don't always have outward symptoms)).




Her final symptoms seems to be a loss of balance. Now usually this would point me directly to inner ear issues, but its not the typical "tilt" or even sway. No, instead she just seems to be slowly losing the hind leg function she just gained back (she had what I believe to be a stroke in October, lost most hind leg function, then gained most of it back in the following weeks). I haven't dealt with HLD yet, but I have a sneaking suspicion this could be something like that. I mean, she has no issue walking straight or climbing, just issues standing on her hind legs. Just last week I could lure her upwards with a treat, and she'd be kinda wobbly yet able to stand without falling over. Now she can barely lift her forelegs off the ground without help, and even has issues climbing up the large cage pan edge (which separates her from the outside world when the cage is open). I still see her climb ladders/ramps, go from ledge to ledge, and eat/groom while standing upright. But these actions seem harder for her, and sometimes she'll be eating/grooming, get lightly pushed by another rat, and tip over.






Other than these things, she seems perfectly normal behavior wise. She still begs to come out of the cage whenever I walk by, and she still enjoys walking around the free-range area for as long as I have her out. She's still eating her food and enjoying trick training, and like always seems to be making up for any loss of mobility with sheer determination to get somewhere. 




So what I really want to know is: Does this sound like an inner ear infection to anyone? Or possibly something like a PT? I was hoping I could rule out PT's because she has no issue grasping and eating food, not to mention that she still remembers and performs dozens of tricks without any issue. But I know PT's (and other neurological issues) have multiple symptoms that vary rat to rat, so I don't want to rule it out entirely. 



I'm considering taking her to the vet, but the main issue here is that vets in my area just don't specialize in rodents. So they'll most likely take one look at her normal behavior and actions, tell me she seems fine, and send me on my way. This is what happened when I took my old girl Shadow in before she passed, except that since I insisted something was wrong they sent me home with Baytril to rule out any infections. Shadow turned out to be suffering from a spontaneous hemorrhage of her adrenal gland, which the vets wouldn't have been able to help with any way. But even so, I doubt they would be able to give me much insight on what's going on with Latte. And if I do end up going (which I will an inner ear infection is suspected as I know those must be treated aggressively with antibiotics), I want as much info as possible to give to them, as in the past that's helped them treat my previous rats.



Thanks in advance to anyone who responds!


----------



## Steffy (Oct 6, 2017)

Sorry to hear you Latte has some eye issues!

I have no experience with those in rats but have done a quick search and found this (you may have already seen it)

http://understandingpetfancyrats.co...e-turning-white-glaucoma-infection-cataracts/

The eye symptoms you are describing sound like the symptoms of glaucoma.
There's more on that in the rat guide:

http://ratguide.com/health/eyes/glaucoma.php

Of course, it does not explain her hind legs getting worse again. Could she have arthritis?
The rat guide says that loss of hind leg function would be gradual - which may explain how she regained her use of her hind legs a while ago (I know from my own experience there are better and worse days with arthritis and what you can do or do not from day to day may change). 

http://ratguide.com/health/musculoskeletal/degenerative_osteoarthritis.php

This is all highly speculative - I hope someone else can offer you some better info!

I wish you and Latte all the best!


----------



## Prince (Jun 17, 2016)

My old lady Cricket had very similar symptoms towards the end of her life. It was due to an outer ear infection.

Have you smelled her ears? Seriously, it'll tell you 100% if it's an infection of some sort. Cricket has some foul smelling ears before being put on ear drops. 

When she had her ear infection, the eye on the side with the affected ear receded slightly, and she would shake her head a lot, as if she was wet. Upon closer inspection, there was sometimes blood in her ear canal, likely from her scratching. I never did catch her scratching excessively though. 


HOWEVER! If the eye is definitely bulging and is not just looking big and a result of the other one being recessed, then it could be an ear infection, or it could very easily be a tumor. Eyes apparently do weird things when ear infections are present. My lovely cricket passed from lymphatic cancer on my birthday (2017 was the worst!!) and she had a hugely bulging eye, and rubbed her chin on the floor as if she was wiping off something sticky. But she also had intensely labored breathing and wouldn't eat. Like the other poster said, if the eye has changed colours at all it could very well be glaucoma or even a cataract at that age, but both would make the eye more cloudy I would think.

On the other hand, if it's a PT you're worried about, I've had two boys that passed from PTs and they both had pretty stereotypical symptoms. Neither one showed eye bulging or head shaking, but cranial tumors do occasionally cause eye bulging.

The hind end lack of balance could be a few things. Arthritis very often starts in the lower back, hind legs and hips, and arthritic rats definitely have good and bad days. Does she drag her tail ever, even just the tip? Thats usually an early warning sign for HED or arthritis. Since your rat has had a stroke in the past, pay special attention to see if the loss of balance is also on the side most affected by the stroke.

These are just my experiences! To me, it sounds like old age combined with an ear infection. But especially over the age of 1, tumors are always in the back of my mind.


----------



## Shadow <3 (Jan 25, 2017)

Thanks for the response guys 


Luckily, Latte seems to have gotten better on her own. That makes 3 times where I thought she was ill, only for everything to clear up on its own (respiratory issues (allergies), a seeming stroke, and now this)!


Anyway, her head shaking is almost totally gone (her ears never smelled/looked weird btw, which is why I thought inner ear infection), I saw her do it maybe once in the past few days (so about on par with the other rats). Her one eye is still a bit "bulgy" and "fluidy", but since that's been stable for well over a month now I don't think I need to worry too much about it. Its definitely not glaucoma (the eye isn't cloudy at all), and it isn't scratched, irritated, or inflamed. She can still see just fine out of both eyes (this I can't know for sure, but she follows my finger with her eyes and responds to my hand cues on both sides), and while a few days back she did seem to be grooming her face a little more than usual, that's also disappeared. Finally, her back legs have seemingly improved (or maybe I just imagined that she got wobblier), and she was able to walk forward on them several steps without help!




I really don't know what happened to her, but whatever it was, it seems to have been minor. I'm just glad she's doing okay now, she's such a sweet and gentle girl and I really don't want to think about her passing anytime soon


----------



## Kelsbels (Aug 12, 2015)

I'm glad she's doing better!

We've been having issues with my one rat regarding arthritis and signs that look like PT but are instead issues with her vascular system. 

What you said before sounded similar to my Neptune, and knowing that your girl also had a stroke might have shown you similar symptoms to PT.


----------

