# Rat Breathing Problems



## Emma13 (Aug 8, 2015)

Last Sunday I noticed one of my rats was making cooing noises when I went to feed him. After doing some research and realizing this could indicate a respiratory infection, I listened to his lungs with a stethoscope and heard a lot of wheezing. He was showing no other signs of illness (no sneezing, discharge, lethargy, laboured breathing, eating/drinking issues, etc) and was running around happily. This is the first time I've encountered lung sounds without sneezing, and I decided to take him into the vet on Tuesday because I was getting worried. After examining him, she said that it was likely that something had triggered this reaction and gave me a lot of information about ammonia. She said that antibiotics weren't necessary at this point but to bring him back if his breathing becomes laboured or if other signs of illness start to show. She also suggested the possibility of asthma, and recommended preventative measures around keeping his environment as ammonia-free as possible.


He seemed to be doing better after a thorough cage clean, but last night the noises were back (they sound like a gurgling stomach) and his cage mate (who always sleeps in his litter box) had them too. Their other cage mates seem totally fine and have no lung noises going on whatsoever. So I did another cage clean and their breathing is back to normal this morning…. but I'm so worried about them. The noises aren't constant, I've only heard them on a few different occasions since last weekend, but they can be loud and it just doesn't seem like a very comfortable thing to have to breathe through… and of course all of the fears rush in and all of the uri worst-case scenario stories echo in my head… these guys are only a year old and I love them to pieces and want them around for so much longer. Has anyone encountered these lung noises without other signs of illness? If so, any insight or advice would be much appreciated!


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

What cage do you have? How many rats are in that cage? Is the cage is a small room with poor ventilation? What bedding are you using? Are you using anything scented at all around them? Do they sleep under some fleece?


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

How many times a week do you do a full cage cleaning? Any other pets around your rats?


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## Emma13 (Aug 8, 2015)

Thanks for these questions Gribouilli!

I have 7 rats (4 neutered males and 3 females) in a large, 4 level ferret nation cage. The cage is in a large bedroom with one to two fans going and a UV air purifier on at all times. I use boxo recycled paper bedding in their litter boxes, and until last night had been lining their cage with fleece, which I'm realizing now they would bunch up, pee on, and sleep under :-\ (as I type that out I'm seeing a major potential cause with the peeing on the fleece and then sleeping under a pile of it… I tossed the fleece last night with their cage clean and am now thinking I won't use it again). I do a full cage cleaning weekly and litter boxes as needed, but I'm going to be increasing that in an effort to mitigate the breathing problems. Our house is scent-free, as I am allergic too and so everyone knows the rule about no perfumes/air fresheners, etc. We do have several other pets (dogs, cats, birds) but they all stay out of the bedroom that the rats are in.

Any advice you have would be much appreciated! I'm thinking that fleece issue might be a huge factor!


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## glh (Jul 2, 2016)

Same thing happened to me with one of my males,He started with a crackling honking noise one day, it happened once and then not again for a couple of days.The same day it started I happened to be at the vets with my dog so I mentioned it to her she said the same thing as your ver didAnd also said it could be a myco flare up, she said as long as he's bright and eating he should be fine.Well he stayed bright and eating for the next 4days but the noises got worse and more frequent,The noises weren't constant but I was still concerned so I took him to a different vet and straight away he said he has a bad URI,I was heartbroken I couldn't believe id left him for 4 days thinking he was fine on advice of a vet.He was still acting his usual self so apart from the noises everything else was normal, the vet gave him baytril and septrin and within 5days out of the 10day course he was making no noise and his lungs were back to normal.Id recommend trying another vet just as a trial, I did and Il never take them anywhere else now.He even offered me extra baytril for future use if it was infact myco, because he believed it would flare up again.Keep us updated!


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

I think the sleeping under the fleece is the main reason you have those breathing issues. Any air drafts is bad for rats too, so the two fans are probably a problem too. Even directing the fan away from the cage might be bad if it create a noticeable air draft. If your room is dusty, and bedrooms are often dusty due to carpeting and/or clothes- that and the fans would make it worse.


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## glh (Jul 2, 2016)

Just to add; he also said my other 2 rats may start showing symptoms if it was down to myco, and luckily they haven't shown any bad signs apart from the odd sneeze which I believe is normal.I did the same as you, air purifier, cleared out all my scented candles , air freshener etc to no avail.I always thought a Uri would make my rat seem at least a little sick, but it didn't which is why I didn't rush him to the vet.I'm glad I did now though, safe to say he got spoilt after the vets! I felt awful.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

Mycoplasma us NOT contagious. ALL rats have Myco. It is only when a rat's immune system gets weak that mycoplasma can take over and make a rat sick. A secondary respiratory infection, on the other hand, is very contagious.


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## Emma13 (Aug 8, 2015)

glh - thank you so much for sharing your experience!! It sounds exactly like what is happening with my two boys, and after reading this we reached out to another vet we know and will be taking them in on Tuesday, which is the earliest day available. I am SO glad the meds worked for your little guy and that he started feeling better! I know what you mean about feeling awful over the delay - I'm feeling so terrible that I didn't push for meds when I was at the first vet this past week. But the vet on Tuesday will prescribe what they need, so I'm just trying to do everything I can to help them breathe better in the meantime… this morning we steamed them in a room with a hot shower running and it really seemed to help - the rat who has been having trouble since last Sunday no longer has any abnormal breathing sounds right now, which is a huge improvement as they had become almost constant since I last posted. So they're going to have a few more steam sessions over the next two days while we wait for their appointment, and hopefully that helps them feel more comfortable. 

Gribouilli - thank you for this additional info! The vet had actually said to put a fan pointed at their cage to move any ammonia out, which I tried though it went against my gut instinct that drafts are bad. I soon turned it off though as it just didn't feel right. At first I thought this vet had been helpful, but after reading these replies, I'm kinda questioning that. She also told me to keep a rat's lifespan in mind when considering medical care… that she wasn't discouraging it, but just to keep that in mind… I was a little surprised with this as he is only 13 months, and I believe that if I can treat something that can improve their health, prevent suffering/further damage, and extend their lives, why wouldn't I do what I can to help them feel better? I don't think I'll be going back to that vet.

Thank you both for your help!! You've been rattie lifesavers!!


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

Keep the air purifier on and set away from the cage so it still get the ammonia away and less air draft. 13 months is still very young for a rat. Open the windowns (put rats away if it creates an air draft) at least once a week to get some fresh air in.


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## Rat Feng Shui (Aug 8, 2016)

I have had problems like this especially when I had 5 or 6 rats not 3 or 4. I worked with a very good vet a lot, to the point of having an albuterol nebulizer available at home for any breathing crisis. Expensive x rays plus vet advice have shown that sometimes ammonia creates a raw spot that turns into an abcess. ( infection blob. ) Unfortunately abcesses do not take to antibiotics well because they have poor blood flow. The animal hospital also does free autopsies for teaching their intern doctors. This may be grim but at least I know what really went wrong. 

In the long run I have learned to watch out for the rats that like to sleep way at the bottom of the pile, at the back of the nest, etc. Even if the cage seems clean they get a lot more ammonia. In the sleeping box ( which you can see in the picture ) they have paper lunch sacks and paper towels they made into a nest, which is very easy to clean out, and then they have fun doing it again. My oldest rat is 3 and still gets around very lively, knows many things, and survived a major tumor removal -- so they can live a long time. Good luck!


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## Emma13 (Aug 8, 2015)

Rat Feng Shui - those are really helpful insights. One of the ones who is sick is definitely a bottom of the pile sleeper… and a litter box sleeper :S. It makes so much sense that they would be getting more ammonia, piled up underneath their friends who like to roll in pee. I'm working on revamping my cage this week and removing everything that could contribute to the problem… the fleece cage lining is already gone, I've taken the shavings out of their litter box because it was much too inviting for naps, and I'm working on new sleeping spaces for them… smaller hammocks to prevent rat pile ups (as one rat inevitably ends up squished at the bottom with only a nose sticking out if he's lucky), a plastic hanging flowerpot for sleeping in the open air, single-rat sized Kleenex boxes, and houses made from plastic step stools partially draped with fleece - enough to make it feel enclosed, but the fleece fringe allows for better air flow than they would have in a regular dome igloo (modified the idea from here: https://www.guineapigcages.com/photos/hidey-houses/p24614-home-made-pigloo-2fhidey-house.html). They love it, and I'm hoping it will help!

Gribouilli - that's perfect and exactly what I've been doing with the air purifier and windows. It's great to hear from both of you that rats can live much longer than 1.5 years. Rat Feng Shui - I'm so glad your little guy survived the tumor removal and is doing well 

The good news - our new vet was fantastic. They are now on Baytril, were given another med while we were there to help their breathing, and were treated with a nebulizer before I brought them home. I'm so hoping this works.


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