# Intro help/Aggressiveness



## bubsybob (Apr 1, 2007)

so im introducing my 5 week old Maggie to my adults Noodles and Toodles. im using a large cardboard box to let them roam in. 


Toodles is fine with the baby, in fact ive even had them in the main cage with little to no squabbling (without noodles there). its easy to tell that Toodles is quite willing to accept her (even if maggie is annoying while chasing her everywhere biting her tail). 

Noodles on the other hand, is the boss. shes having trouble with the baby, and gets very agitated, excited and aggressive when around her. i had an 'incident' today where baby maggie came out with a cut and a bit of bloody fur. i took a lot of spraying with water to get noodles away. 
i am having doubts as to whether noodles will accept her, as she has recently been a little more aggressive with her adult cage mate toodles as well. 

any suggestions?? i really dont want to have to keep noodles separated from them both.


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

I'll be interested to read the response after some recent blood shed


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## bubsybob (Apr 1, 2007)

mm ok? 


well ive decided that im going to keep the baby separated for another week or two. Noodles is just too aggressive, even on neutral ground. i want to let the baby get a little bigger so she can defend herself adequately. 

Shes just too scared, and noodles is just too aggressive at this stage. covering scent with vanilla didnt do much, she still attacked. 


would it be better to let the baby stay with my other adult and keep noodles in the separate cage for a few weeks? or would that screw up the whole dominance thing


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i'd leave toodles with noodles for the most part but have daily sessions with toodles and the new baby. maybe even having regular sleep overs. this will keep noodles from feeling abandoned and her attitude down but will still give the baby someone to be with. and toodles will be able to have two lovely friends.


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## bubsybob (Apr 1, 2007)

well after a few more attempts of introducing in the bathtub, i think that noodles is trying to seriously maim or kill the baby. 

ive had to hold onto noodles while she sniffs her, but still tries to break free with all her might to get the baby. theres some hair missing from the back of the babies neck from the previous attack that ive noticed as well. 

ive been looking around the internet and found that all this behaviour seems to be offensive and intentionally hurting it.. im not willing to put the baby at any more risk to introduce them, so maybe getting rid of one of the rats would be a better option?


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Getting rid of an animal should never be an option. You adopted the animals, you are their caretaker and have to deal with any and all of their problems.

You could try spaying/neutering all involved and see how introductions go after everyone heals.


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## mopydream44 (Jun 10, 2007)

> You adopted the animals, you are their caretaker and have to deal with any and all of their problems.


I couldn't have said it better! 

if spaying/neutering isn't an option for you then it might just be best to keep two different pairs of rats. Keep Noodles and Toodles together, and find another playmate for the little one!


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## Matt (Jun 14, 2007)

MopyDream44 said:


> > if spaying/neutering isn't an option for you then it might just be best to keep two different pairs of rats. Keep Noodles and Toodles together, and find another playmate for the little one!
> 
> 
> I'd vote for that.


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## bubsybob (Apr 1, 2007)

i have do not have the means to keep a 4th rat, 3 is the limit im afraid. 


are the chances better that once maggie is a few weeks older that she will be easier to introduce, as she will be big enough to fight back?


and of course i dont want to get rid of any of my girls, its a last resort option if she becomes way too aggressive.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Actually she'll be easier to introduce NOW.

When she's old enough to fight back you'll have a brawl on your hands.


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## bubsybob (Apr 1, 2007)

well if i keep trying, shes going to end up completely broken and afraid. maggie is just too little, and noodles is just too big. 

how do you do this with such aggression?


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

I have three cages of five rats. I have not been able to have them get along right now, and have let them have a couple weeks chill time all apart to restart again, see how things go with bathes, vanilla scent and in a boring room like the bathtub. Then if that goes well I will move from there. If that goes how my previous sessions have gone (bites and sometimes even bloodshed D I will have to figure out who would be the best to be neutered and try from there.

You could do the same with spaying.

My suggestion: Keep the baby seperate, intro the baby and let the baby play with the non agressive rat evey day. Put the non agressive rat right back in with the agressive one so her friend can smell the babies scent on her friend. Put the cages close together (after a week or two of chill time) Switch the rats into the opposite rats cage every day (without the opposite rat in their cage... not it's own Don't put them together in a cage right now!). When they no longer seem on guard in the opposite rats cage give them all bathes and put vanilla extract on the genitals and backs of neck. THEN intro them in extreme neutral territory like a bathtub. Stay there, if you see puffed up fur or aggressive behavior from the agressive female stop the session, keep the cage switching and try again the next day.

Really just keep up at this and hopefull it will work for you!


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

Yeah I was going to say socialise the the baby with the frienly one. Make sure you dont reward the agressive behaiviour with attention. Can they all play together? Then remove the agressive one each time thee is an incident.
I would out some hidey holes on the tub-shoe boxes or somethin


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## bubsybob (Apr 1, 2007)

ive put their cages next to eachother. theres lots of huffing and puffing through the bars and whatnot, but i guess its good that she gets to smell the baby without any physical contact. 

should i expect the adult to stop all the heavy sniffing eventually? and when/if this happens, would that be an appropriate time to start intros


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

Be sure to do the cage switch thing if you can. Baby in their cage while their in the babies.


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## mopydream44 (Jun 10, 2007)

keep us updated bubsy. I hope they begin to get along!


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## bubsybob (Apr 1, 2007)

had a bathtub session today! 

i had some cheerios in the tub with noodles and maggie, noodles was preoccupied eating those as maggie tried to cuddle up with her and trying to get underneath. 

it was going quite well, and then noodles got full and started to give more attention to the baby. as soon as noodles would walk up to her, she would freeze and stare at her. i knew from the past that the next thing she would do is pounce on the baby, so i let her stare for a short second and then separated them on different ends of the tub, or took her attention away from the baby.

Noodles would go right back to her, sniff a few times and then do her thing, meaning biting her tail or staring intensly. pounced on her once, but not as violently as the last few times. 

this was about a 7 minute session, so i will try again in an hour or so


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## bubsybob (Apr 1, 2007)

one more failure. 


ripped out fur, and i cant tell if its a cut, or just a line where fur is gone. 
i dont see any blood. :S this is frustrating me now

quick edit: ive separated Noodles out from the pack, will be out for a few weeks. im hoping in this time, maggie and toodles will sort of take claim over the territory, and when i re-introduce noodles, she will be calmer and more out of place, per say.


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

your removing the most aggressive rat?
I think that is a good plan, when she retuns the dynamic will be differnt


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