# One Rat Trusts, the Other Doesn't?



## destiniesfulfilled (Oct 16, 2012)

Hi all, I'm new to the forum, and this is my first time having pet rats for a while now.
Last I owned, I had two females, and now I have two males (neither are neutered but I have a vet appt. Friday).


I bought Boo and Curio on October 1...it's been 16 days now. I've been talking, spending a lot of time with them, putting my hands in the cage, giving them treats from my hand, and Curio has adapted well. He lets me pick him up. He tries to escape within about a minute when he goes free range he isn't shy at all and he likes to hop on my foot and ride around once I start (slowly) walking again.
When I lie down, he hops up on me, and crawls from my calves to my shoulder, and he's really affectionate. When my hands are near him, all he does is lick, and he's gotten more and more used to me petting him and I've been eventually introducing scritching to him. And he's the alpha, by the way.

Boo, on the other hand, is the beta, and he's worryingly shy. When I put my hands in the cage, he doesn't lick my fingers but he does what I call "ghost-nipping" where he's nipping but it's not painful in any way. Sometimes he'll surprise me and go at my fingers quickly or as if they're a treat, and since that scares me, I guess it scares him. He's never drawn blood, and he's never been hurtful. He's just really nervous, which kind of makes me nervous. Haha.
He has no problem taking treats from me. I haven't tried soft foods yet - I'm afraid Boo will confuse my hand for a treat, in a painful way. (I do the "eep" when it scares me or is a little too rough for my liking)
I try petting him in the cage, but he gets low to the ground and slinks away. Sometimes I'm fortunate and he'll huddle up in a corner and sometimes I can pet him, but I worry about this, because I'm afraid he feels cornered, and I don't want him to associate my presence with being cornered.

I have put an old shirt in their cage, and I kept it for a week. I let them run free rang in my room because I thought it would help them get used to my scent and my room. Curio has made excellent progress, but Boo is 7 steps behind. When it's time to go home, all he does is hide, and he'll go to a corner underneath my bed that's extremely hard to get to. I'm afraid to let Boo out anymore because I don't want him to run to that corner so that I can't leave my room until I know he's safely back home. He's fine when free-ranging, especially when Curio is out (he gets a lot more confident when Curio's around), but he won't come near me. He used to bite my socked toes really hard and hurtful, and since I would react quickly, it would scare him and he would run away again. He's not afraid of exploring my room, he seems to only be afraid of ME, a human.

I bought the brothers at a pet store, and I think Curio was probably better socialized than Boo was. But what can I do now for Boo to make him realize I'm not the bad guy here? I'm afraid to do the forced socialization/towel thing because the last thing I need is for him to escape in the house (I live in a two-story house - that's a lot of places he could go), and I don't want to terrify him further.
Anyone?


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## Caz4500 (Jul 28, 2012)

Cor that sounds like my 2 lol ask Rat Daddy he gives good advise x


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## Pixxie (Jun 3, 2012)

Honestly, give it more time. When I got my three boys, one of them was far more shy than the other two. The most friendly of the three would come out and play with me, which encouraged the other two. They do learn from cage mates. Now they won't leave me alone lol. I suggest semi forced socialization. Play with them both in a small room. I mean like big enough for you and the cage but not much else, like a bathroom. Give the less shy one irresistible treats. Inevitably the shy guy will want some and come to you. Make him get on your body to get it. Soft food on a spoon works well to keep him in contact with you, but I would get him comfy with climbing on you to get a treat he can run with first. I noticed huge improvements in just a week or so doing this with my own rats. Because the room is small, he can only get away a little bit and it works like forced socialization without escapes.


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## gal5150 (Aug 14, 2012)

As a rule, I never treat in the cage because that can lead to a nip from a rat expecting a treat. Some people do, I just prefer not to. Im not sure what the towel thing is, but forced socialization can be done quite safely in a bath tub or on a bed....or even with the rat between a sweatshirt and t shirt with sweatshirt tucked in to your pants if your concerned about them getting out. Im pro forced socialization and have yet to have it backfire. Timid handling encourages timid rats, IMO. If a rat is approached with confidence and no hesitation it will habituate to whatever if fears quickly. You must be consistent and exposure to the rat's feared situation must be repeated over and over. I know we tend to feel guilty about picking up the anxious rat, but we aren't doing anything to hurt and WE must believe this if the rat is to believe it. Forced socialization sessions must last a minimum of 20 min to be effective and the more sessions you do daily the quicker you'll see results. I say go for it.


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## Run Computers (Oct 14, 2012)

Gal, That kind of reninds me of the Dog Whisperer, when he uses calm-assertive behavior and mind-set to help the dog overcome it's fear or obsession.


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## gal5150 (Aug 14, 2012)

Agreed, Run. I know its true in my experiences with animals as well as people that without calm, assertive energy everyone involved feels anxious and unsure. We may not always know exactly what to do but I believe if your intent is to help rather than harm, you can do just about anything with the right energy and trust will be reinforced.


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## alexn (Sep 30, 2012)

Agree with the others RE: time. For a long time Daisy (Beta) was cautious, and would hide in her burrow to watch when I opened the cage. However, in the recent weeks I've noticed her becoming a lot more inquisitive, and this morning when I got up, she jumped right to the top to say hello. 

Something I've been doing is to get a stool or chair, and sit by their cage - with the door opening on the front, I can open it and rest it on my knee, giving both of them the opportunity to run out to me and back inside if they feel they need to. It's really helped IMO, as Daisy now knows that she has a choice, and is gradually becoming more and more friendly. When we first had her, she did pretty much what you said - jumped from a box (we were cleaning the cage) and ran into the shelves under the TV. Took us an hour to get her out..!


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## destiniesfulfilled (Oct 16, 2012)

Gal,
I will try your approach. Thank you. It's true, I just feel bad about forcing it since I know it's anxious, but you're right: I'm not doing anything to hurt the rat, so I have to just remember that and just keep doing what I'm doing. Thanks


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## gal5150 (Aug 14, 2012)

Keep us posted on your progress! Can't wait to hear how it going.


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## trematode (Sep 8, 2012)

16 days is early. I had my girls for 1.5 months now. One was outgoing, the other was shy. She never nipped like your shy boy does, but the rest of the behaviour sounds similar. Only within the last 2 weeks has she come out of her shell. It almost seems like outgoing ratty had an affect on her. Since I lack a rat-proof room, I've built a bridge from their cage to the sofa and let them free-range on that. Outgoing rat would always take advantage of it while shy rat sat in the door way. Only the last few times has shy rat come out... following directly behind her buddy. They both greet me when I open their cage now. Before that, I just took it easy: tried to coax her on my lap using treats, talk to her, make sure I didn't disturb her while she was resting, attempted to play with her and she has come around.


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## Run Computers (Oct 14, 2012)

I might be wrong, but I think the more dominant rat in a group always comes around first, and eventually the submissive follows the others lead.


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## destiniesfulfilled (Oct 16, 2012)

gal, I sure will. Though I think my rats got a URI (in the pet store they were housed in a tank), so I'm taking them to the vet today at 2 (it's about 1 now) to get them checked out. I'm sure that once they're feeling better they'll be a lot happier. But I will also stop giving them treats while they're in the cage. Maybe this will stop the ghost-nipping. I don't know what to do about him biting my socked toe really hard though :C Any tips?

trematode, oh 16 days is early? Haha, I guess I'm just too excited for my buddies. And yes, actually, I've noticed that both boys do greet me at the cage door a lot more now. In fact, both greeted me at the door today.


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