# Help with new rats please



## pelirrojo (Feb 16, 2013)

Hello all, 

I'm a new rat owner as of 4 days ago. 2 females, about 6 weeks old. I realize this question must come up a lot, but I was wondering if anyone could offer any advise. Before getting them I read as much as I could about socializing them (though having to guess some things since some information conflicts) and I seem to be confused about the progress. I gave them a shoe box to hide in which they've turnt into a nest and spend most of their time in (including hording food). And they've dug holes in the bottom of the box. Since they spend a lot of time with their noses out of the holes, i sometimes space my fingers near the holes, in which case they will often grab a finger with their hands and start licking and sometimes nibbling, I'm guessing thats a good sign? additionally if theyre outside of the box they'll generally run back to the box if I approch but when they dont they'll accept food out of my hand. Ok so I was assuming these two things were good signs, so i started feeding them at the door to their box, which was going well. Until I touched one, at which point one of the females got terrified and started climbing up the side of the box. So far I havent attempted to handle them, since putting myself in their shoes that would terrify me.

So my question is, can anyone offer any advise on what I am doing wrong and/or additional things I could try?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

There are in fact two generally accepted rat training methods which do, for the most part conflict. They are both effective for certain types of rats. I prefer method I call immersion. It's based on a rat psychology rather than a fixed human approach. If you dig through some of my older remarks you'll probably find some lengthy and detailed discussion on the topic. For your purposes I'm just going to touch on some of the basic points. You don't seem to be dealing with problem rats, so they should be easy. When a rat joins a new pack, in this case the new pack is your family, it expects to meet the alpha rat up close and personal pretty much upon arrival. For the most part it expects the alpha rat to demonstrate its status aggressively. This rat practices similar to fraternity hazing or being jumped into a gang in human terms. After the alpha rat has demonstrated its dominance in the unpleasantries are over, the new rat usually rolls over onto its back in the alpha scratches its belly and preens the new rat to welcome it to the pack. This behavior is genetically preprogrammed into just about every rat. And this is what your rats are expecting to happen. No doubt, they are more than a little bit confused right now and frightened because by their standards they haven't met the alpha rat yet. More disconcerting to your rats is that they haven't joined the pack yet and therefore are unprotected. If this situation is allowed to go on, one of your rats will become the alpha and will begin to defend itself and its subordinate against you. Generally, I get my rats used to being handled before I introduce them to their cage. The last girl we adopted at 10 PM was in her cage curled up with her new roommate having completed basic socialization to our family and introduction to her roommate. So, if you chose wisely at the pet shop and adopted two rats that were generally human friendly and don't bite, the first thing you need to do is get your rats out of their cage and start handling and playing with them. I find that it's best to schedule a very long session that concludes with you skritching their bellies. After your rats are okay with being handled, it's a good idea to get them out of the cage for a couple hours a day for advanced training and play. During the first and subsequent play sessions it's important for you to be in their face. You need to become the alpha and earn their respect before they can love you. If they behave badly, don't be afraid to express your displeasure. If they behave nicely be generous with treats and praise. Always address your new rats by their names. Rats will learn their names very quickly. Within a few days they should also be able to understand the basic commands ""come"" and ""up on hand"". I understand your apprehension, but think of it in human terms. Imagine if you are to adopt a child and left came into his room for a few days before you introduced yourself. Sure, any child would be afraid and apprehensive moving into a new home with strangers, but the longer his new family leaves them alone the more scared is likely to get. Or if you have experience with dogs, imagine bringing home a new puppy and not playing with it for the first four days. In fact, most people meet their new puppies at the pet shop. My local pet shop has a room set aside for introductions. But a time most people take their puppy home live ready spent at least half an hour playing with it. This all goes to the underlying principle of immersion training; rats are intelligent creatures and they have the full set of emotions similar to humans. They are trying to understand what you are telling them and they are trying to communicate with you. They will react to their interpretation of what you do and similarly, you need to observe and react to their efforts to communicate with you. It's a lot like being a mom or a dad and raising children. There is no technique or method if strictly adhered to that's going to work with all children and in all circumstances. Most parents realize that their children are intelligent and sensitive and respond to their children's needs, always rewarding good behavior and administering discipline sparingly. Remember the emphasis on long socialization sessions. Lots of short sessions where no progress is made actually reinforces the rats misconception that it's in charge. The dynamic that you are trying to create is a rat pack with you as the only alpha. Once your rats love and respect you you're well on your way to the best pet ownership experience of your life. Best luck to you and your new pack.


----------



## pelirrojo (Feb 16, 2013)

Thankyou for the reply 

So I took one of them out for an hour, just held him and patted him etc and he seemed to tolerate it, then happily went back to his cage. An hour later I attempted the same thing (ok, tried with the other rat too, she managed to bounce out of my hands...twice). Now they're both terrified to come near me. Is this fairly normal?


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm assuming your last post had a typo and you don't have a boy and girl rat in the same cage. 

Your off to a good start!

Normal ranges from napping on you to trying to rip your fingers off depending on how screwed up a new rat is and how long it's been left alone without human contact. Also some rats are more docile and friendly while others never really like being held for long periods of time and want to run around and explore.

Immersion responds to the rats needs. So while you can work more easily with one of your rats up on your shoulder or on your arm, giving skritches and hugs and treats, the other might respond better to playing games on the floor like chase the rat or tug of war or mock battle. Its the interaction that counts. With Fuzzy Rat, adopted at 3 weeks old she spent her first week napping and crawling on us. My daughter even took her to bed. At 7 months old Amelia who was neglected and didn't like hugs and skritches, charged my daughter who lay on the floor and jumped on her. My daughter swatted her away when she got out of hand and Amelia would run away and then charge back jumping up on my daughter for more wrestling and play fighting, then she would jump up on me and bolt away. When we introduced Fuzzy Rat to the party Amelia ran around engaging Fuzzy who played along and put up a small fight for appearance sake and because she knew it was her place to do it. My daughter passed out at around 4:00 AM, which is not bad for a 6 year old. At about 5:00 AM Fuzzy Rat pretty much just rolled over and let Amelia groom her belly and I carried all three girls to bed and that was the first time Amelia saw her cage. We picked up Amelia at 10:00 PM after the pet shop closed and she rode home on my daughter's lap, while Fuzzy hung out under the front seat. So all in all our first immersion session was 7 hours long and all of the hard work was done. Amelia came right up to the door of the cage the next day and asked to be taken out and played with and the rats have slept together in a ball since. Amelia still doesn't like to be skritched or petted and prefers to run all over us or scamper about the house on her own, but she comes when called and checks in by jumping on my feet and asking to be picked up every now and then. Fuzzy Rat is a very rare true shoulder rat and enjoys handling and human attention of any kind as well as exploring both outdoors and indoors. My rats are very different but both are absolutely great rats I can be proud of. You can't create a rat's or a human's personality, we are all born as individuals. Amelia is my first rat to ever figure out how to open a door by pushing it rather than try to tunnel through the carpet, and she figured out how to turn the latch to open her cage door. She came to tell me Fuzzy Rat accidently got locked into the closet and wouldn't let me go until I followed her and let Fuzzy out and she brings Fuzzy food when she's too tired to climb up and get it herself. Amelia is flat out brilliant and loving and sweet... but she dislikes affection, and strangers and she's agoraphobic. Fuzzy Rat lives for crowds and attention by everyone, will approach total strangers outdoors and will walk at heel in the park like a well trained dog. She's very smart too, but she's a showboating primadonna. The same training methodology, went very differently for two different rats who both self actualized into very opposite personalities. Still the main goal was achieved to form a single cohesive pack (family) around myself and my daughter. 

Lock yourself into the hallway or bathroom or somewhere reasonably confined and get on the floor with your rats, offer treats etc. to get their attention. And play with them like you would a puppy. Respond to their different personalities, let them get to meet you. They will get over their fears very quickly. 

Rats don't get over their fears by watching you. They get over their fears by interacting with you. Be the alpha... stay in their face, playfight to win when the time comes and let them understand that they are part of your pack now. 

You have it easy.... I've coached a few folks through immersion with rats that were already screwed up or had been left alone to "acclimate" for too long and were already nasty and biting. There the methodology is slightly amended to include thick padded leather gloves and a towel to manage the rats in and sterile gauze to sop up the human blood. For the most part a single or few sessions have straightened out the problem and it usually fixes inter-rat issues too. Rats don't fight for dominance if they have a strong loving alpha. Spend the weekend working on and with your rats and by Monday or early next week you will have two new bffs. You are doing exactly what the rats are genetically programmed to do. Remember long sessions make progress. If they are still afraid of you, you haven't handled them enough yet. Now get in there and interact with your rats!


----------



## pelirrojo (Feb 16, 2013)

Thankyou for your time in replying. Been doing as you say, and while they still avoid me (ie they come out at night, and run back to their box if I enter) they no longer use me as a toilet. Progress 

The interesting thing when I hold them is that they dont appear to be scared, except of heights. They seem more interested in "oooh, whats over there??" and refuse food while im holding them. 

And after reading several other threads on here realizing that this seems to be a very common topic. 

So once again, thankyou


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

It's in the nature of girl rats to always have somewhere to go and something to do. When I call Amelia she waits about 30 seconds and comes running from anywhere in the house... then she jumps up on me gets a skritch or two, wrestles her way back to the ground and dashes off. Poor girl was neglected or worse for the first 7 months of her life and spent her first 3 weeks with us sitting on my desk like a flower pot, afraid to move from where she was put. She stepped on my keyboard once, she noticed it upset me and she's never clicked another key always carefully tiptoeing around the keyboard. 

Every other girl rat I've ever had enjoyed skritches, but we raised them from pups. Every girl rat I've ever owned also wanted to explore after some time being handled. That's not to say we've given up on Amelia, today I snagged her half asleep and she hung out on my arm for over 15 minutes while I pet and skritched her. She's slowly learning to accept affection. 

The best way to describe girls... I suppose it's like they have too many things on their mind sometimes it looks like their brain wants affection, but they just can't stop their feet from moving. That's normal.

The standard is that your rats should want attention and not avoid you. Amelia will stand up and rattle the cage if I go by. Sometimes she wants play, sometimes food, sometimes she just wants me to let her out, but she demands attention. You may or may not wind up with affectionate girl rats, it's a matter of their personality and experience, but you absolutely will wind up with rats that will want to interact with you and learn their names and follow at least their basic commands most of the time.

Not to worry, it sounds like you're making progress. Stay in their face, take the lead and respond to them when they try to communicate with you. My rats are very communicative, each with a slightly different method, but when my rats start clawing at the back of my neck, they want me to go faster and/or open the door, and if they point their noses in a certain direction and move their heads up and down that's the direction they want to be carried. Pay attention to their movements and sounds, and try to do what they want, they will really respond when they think they are getting through to you too.


----------



## pelirrojo (Feb 16, 2013)

Hello again, 

I've been carrying on with what you said, and it seems like the rats are getting more terrified not less. While they no longer use me as a toilet, they run away whenever they see me, and the only way to get them to come near me is to bribe them with food. While it appeared I was making progress (I would hold my hand outside of their safe box and they would climb on it to lick every inch) today I had to replace their box with another as the old was getting smelly. Now they're huddled underneth the running wheel. I realize that its only been a week, and that it could take a month or more before I see real progress, but my question is does it appear I'm doing more harm than good?

Thanks.


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm so confused... 

Why are you taking the safe box and the wheel out of the cage for playtime? Or are you trying to train your rats in their cage? Either way it doesn't work.

Scoop up your rats and get them out of your cage and up on your hands or shoulder and take them to a safe confined place on your turf and play with them. 

Sure they are going to be frightened of you.... your humongous! And your loud! And they can't understand a single thing you say. And worst of all your not furry, and your tail's too short.

The only way they will learn to feel safe on your arm or on your shoulder is to spend time there and discover that nothing bad happens and that you are nice. But before you get there you need to share space with them. Lock yourself in a small room with them for a few hours bring treats get down on the floor and let them get used to you. 

It doesn't take a week or a month or a year. It takes a few to several hours. You see the only time that counts is time you are in direct contact with your rats. Touch and go is a complete waste of time. The only thing a rat learns when it's not being interacted with by you is that you are an outsider and it's on it's own.

Schedule an evening this weekend and hunker down and interact with your rats, bring treats and prepare to have some fun.


----------



## Lala05 (May 16, 2013)

I have no idea about new rats beause i do not rats.


----------

