# What kind of rat is this?



## rattacular (Apr 28, 2013)

Found this lady in my bathroom when I got home from work today, quite a shocker! I live captured a whole family of rats last winter in the attic, and they were the typical looking rat, but this one is quite different - bigger rounded ears, more compact and stout body, and a shorter, fur covered tail. Even its demeanor is different, where the other wild rats were obviously quite scared and wanted to get away NOW, this one is incredibly calm, to the point where I almost wondered if it was once someones pet. Any ideas of what breed it is?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Well, there are roof rats and what you saw before was probably our Norway rats? What happened to the little girl. 


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## Auvreathem (Jul 26, 2013)

Huh... What an interesting bugger. It look like rat a mouse mated, if that was possible.


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

Maybe it's a roof rat? Looks a bit like tiny Tim, but I'm no rat expert


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## Daisy (Jul 8, 2013)

Very interesting!!! I'm not sure if it's a roof rat... Her head is very rounded. Almost looks like a degu or something. Maybe she just hasn't grown into it yet. Here's a little comparison I found on google: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-tEggODqyNmA/Tphx3tO3zRI/AAAAAAAAELw/Spjj588uTWs/s1600/rodent.jpg

Seems like she should have a pointier snout if she's a roof rat.


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## Moo (Aug 2, 2013)

I think she is a pack rat. The easiest way to tell is if you find the nest. It will be much bigger than a Norway or Roof rat's nest. But judging from the ears and the tail, I think she is a pack rat.


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## JLSaufl (Jan 20, 2013)

That is a woodrat. We used to find them all the time in New Mexico. Quiet demeanor, big ears and furry tail.  Super cute critter.


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## rattacular (Apr 28, 2013)

Interesting! It does indeed look like a woodrat, never seen one before. It seemed to be alone, as I havent heard or seen any others. I let her go several miles away in one of the huge fields around here, I imagine she'll do just well, thanks for the info!

So what are our fancies originally bread from?


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## Korra (Dec 11, 2011)

> So what are our fancies originally bred from?


Brown Rat, Norway Rat, Rattus Norvegicus
It goes by many names.


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

Although interestingly enough in the beginning stages of the fancy it was a bit of a toss up if it would be the Norway (brown) rat or the roof (black) rats....then the plague happened


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## Korra (Dec 11, 2011)

Grawrisher said:


> Although interestingly enough in the beginning stages of the fancy it was a bit of a toss up if it would be the Norway (brown) rat or the roof (black) rats....then the plague happened<br>


Not quite true. The Brown rat kicked the black rat's butt ecologically speaking before the plague happened in the 14th century. Rats didn't start being domesticated and tamed until they were used in blood sports until the 18th century, about 400 years after the plague


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## Mball77 (Jul 3, 2013)

Korra said:


> Not quite true. The Brown rat kicked the black rat's butt ecologically speaking before the plague happened in the 14th century. Rats didn't start being domesticated and tamed until they were used in blood sports until the 18th century, about 400 years after the plague


Also it wasn't until recently (in the last 100yrs recently) that it was figured that rats where a plague vector. I think they where blaming Jewish people, witches and the apocalypse brought on by the sins of man for the plague, as was the fashion of the time


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## never-sleep (Mar 3, 2012)

Mball77 said:


> Also it wasn't until recently (in the last 100yrs recently) that it was figured that rats where a plague vector. I think they where blaming Jewish people, witches and the apocalypse brought on by the sins of man for the plague, as was the fashion of the time


Also, the only reason rats were the vector was because of such superstitious beliefs. People were killing any cats they could get their hands on because they thought they were workers of witches. The cats weren't able to keep the rat population in control so rats began to overpopulate cities. 

And to think, the plague could have been prevented by a bit of flea spray.


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## Minky (Apr 4, 2013)

Right, it was actually fleas that were the vector.


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## Mball77 (Jul 3, 2013)

Fleas are to blame. I apologize I probably didn't use vector in the right way. Ships, cattle, traveling caravans or anything that could carry the flea I meant as a vector, or person to person through coughing. Rats were merely an effective method (especially on ships) for the y pestis ridden fleas to travel.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Actually... in some literature I ran across, rats were considered familiars to witches along with cats, etc. From there it is no tremendous leap to assume that little old ladies, living alone along the margins of towns were adopting pet rats long before the fancy ever became popular. There is also an Indian Temple to black rats in India, that dates back a ways where the black rats are pretty domestic. I suspect that rats have a very long relationship with humans that wasn't always entirely adversarial.

The reason that we only trace our fancy back to Jack Black is... first of all we are inherently Anglocentric, (if it didn't happen in the English speaking world it didn't happen at all) and because the albino rat originally found in a cemetery marks the start of an identifiable morph that marked the visual differentiation between the wild and the fancy rat. 

My mom had an indoor-outdoor pet squirrel she raised from a pup in the 1950's. After she bottle raised it and set it free, it moved into the old oak tree in her yard but came inside every morning to have breakfast with her until my parents sold the house. 

300 years from now, if there should ever be a squirrel fancy, it's likely that history would not count the number of people that are keeping pet squirrels now or have ever kept pet squirrels as part of their fancy.... But I'm not entirely sure the term squirrel cage fan didn't have it's roots somewhere in fact, where squirrel cages weren't uncommon at some point in history.

History is revised by authors. Often, these folks are like you and me, with limited resources. Rats are very easily domesticated, so it's hard to imagine that over the course of millenia it didn't happen "relatively" often. In fact, every now and then folks still adopt wild rats even with all of the fancy types available.

As to the rats being the plague vector, as mentioned before that too might be revisionist history. Most of us that really understand rats know that they tend to establish territories and boundaries that they defend from other packs. Rats don't wander a continent willy-nilly as was presumed by the rat infection model. Whereas an infected pack might spread the plague around a town, as in house to house, that might be included in their foraging area the theory falls way short of explaining how rapidly the disease spread from town to town and city to city. "A" vector doesn't necessarily mean the only "vector". And even a well established theory is only that, a theory.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/647468/woodrat

Cutest things! I think they are more closely related to mice than rats, but it's too early for me to look up phylogeny ... Anyone know? Would be cool to find out, since they can get so big. I wonder how intelligent they are, or if they can be domesticated, if the little bugger is naturally calm ^_^ 


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I'd suspect that just about any rodent can be domesticated to one degree or another. I mean folks keep mice, all the way up through the big aquatics; nutria, beaver and even capybara. My mom even raised a squirrel back in the 1950's.

Unfortunately many rodents come with issues... the big aquatics need tubs or pools to be happy in, and groundhogs are famous for tearing up carpets to dig tunnels and each rodent seems to have a different diet and some make better pets than others as in hamsters vs rats. My mom's squirrel moved into the big oak tree in the back yard and only came in for meals and play. As a full time indoor pet, there just wasn't enough climbing and running and nest building room in the house.

I suspect that as many pack rats build huge nests, I'd worry about what one would do if left alone in the house.

I suppose if one or a few could be found young enough, and someone was willing to give it a go, it would be an interesting experience.


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## Mball77 (Jul 3, 2013)

It kinda hit me a while back, how many rodents use their hands and how rats have surprisingly similar anatomy to humans considering how different we are, the social and pack mindedness, and how when ever these "missing links" come up they tend to look like tree squirrels or lemurs. Also while not "tool users", many build there own very complex multicambered mansions (such as naked mole rats, wild rats, mearKats, beavers) that evolutionary we are much closer related to rats then many non rat lovers would like to admit. Also keeping in mind most rodents can have the potential to interact or bond with humans, our social structure isn't that dissimilar considering how different we look. Even dogs vrs wolves, the dog has evolved though selective breeding though thousands of years to be able to interact with humans (and us with them) on the level that they do as opposed to the wild squirrel example above compared to chumming with a wolf pup. Just a thought.


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

Mball77 said:


> It kinda hit me a while back, how many rodents use their hands and how rats have surprisingly similar anatomy to humans considering how different we are, the social and pack mindedness, and how when ever these "missing links" come up they tend to look like tree squirrels or lemurs. Also while not "tool users", many build there own very complex multicambered mansions (such as naked mole rats, wild rats, mearKats, beavers) that evolutionary we are much closer related to rats then many non rat lovers would like to admit. Also keeping in mind most rodents can have the potential to interact or bond with humans, our social structure isn't that dissimilar considering how different we look. Even dogs vrs wolves, the dog has evolved though selective breeding though thousands of years to be able to interact with humans (and us with them) on the level that they do as opposed to the wild squirrel example above compared to chumming with a wolf pup. Just a thought.


Hence the impending thumbed-rat revolution (it's going to happen, I'm not crazy)

I want a rat with thumbs


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

That's just asking for trouble! Rats. With thumbs will quickly learn to more easily unlock their cages.... Next thing we know they are changing the channel to national geo wild when ur watching a movie! 


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Assuming that "evolution" survives as a theory beyond natural selection which is provable... I mean no one has ever proven that a mosquito can evolve into a dragon fly... but still evolution has lots of merits for lack of a better theory. The first mammal fossils we've found were small "rodent like" creatures. Depending how far you buy evolution, and I'm not starting a debate either way, nor expressing my own opinion, our rats and ourselves might be presumed to share a common ancestor. 

There were at one time mega rodents, which were killed off most likely by mega cats, rats in their present form are small enough to avoid detection by predators and large enough to support some major mental processing power... If the big rats had more time to "evolve" they might be keeping us as pets.

And with how similar rats are to us, I'd be more worried about rat porn and food shows than nature shows replacing our favorite movies.


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