# Bottled vs Tap Water



## Zaraxae (Apr 1, 2014)

I've heard of some people only using bottled water for their rats, and when I googled it, I saw some people claiming that the fluorine in tap water gives rats brain damage. Does anyone know if this is true?


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## lovemyfurries (Aug 13, 2014)

I'm not sure if that's true but I have heard that it's better to give them filtered water. Fortunately I have a filter that attaches to my tap and can switch between using either tap or filter. So I just give them filtered just to be safe. See if anyone else has any ideas or google some more.


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## PawsandClaws (Jul 22, 2014)

High levels and high exposure is harmful. You can check with your local council and see what they put in the tap water in your area and how much of it.


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## Zaraxae (Apr 1, 2014)

Okay, the average in my area is 0.8mg/L Fluoride. Do you have any idea what range is considered harmful?


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## Dan203 (Jul 10, 2014)

I use the water from our reverse osmosis system for the rats. I figure it's better then the stuff straight from the tap. But I'm not sure if it filters fluoride or not.


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## jeriibearii (Jul 26, 2014)

Ok so I'm curious.. This is what it says on my county's website about flouride and water:"Natural fluoride levels in Pinellas County water currently range from an average of 0.15-0.50 parts per million (ppm)*. Water fluoridation will adjust the natural fluoride concentration in Pinellas County’s drinking water to 0.7 ppm, a level recommended for optimal dental health in our climate."Is this safe for my girlies or should I be getting them bottled water? And if so, what kind should I get? Distilled?


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## ratmode (May 15, 2014)

The fluoride levels in tap water will not cause brain damage to rats. 0.8 mg/L is equal to 0.8 parts per million. The levels recommended by health orgs vary by climate, but remember, it's calculated per unit volume, so you don't have to worry about dose adjustments. Generally speaking the highest recommended fluoride level is around 1.2 ppm (it varies based on climate). Higher than that and you might see dental fluorosis and possibly bone problems in developing rats, but brain damage from fluoride is very very rare (unless you're exposed to it in SUPER high concentrations).

Most of the people claiming that fluoride is a neurotoxin forget the most basic principle of toxicology: the dose makes the poison. Heck, water itself is a poison in large enough quantities. The rule I follow is this - if it's good enough for me, then it's good enough for the rats. My rats drink tap water all day long, LOVE it, and are ridiculously healthy. Don't put hydrofluoric acid in the water and they'll thrive and love you for hydrating them 

So, long story short - fluoridated tap water is safe for rats. If you get your water from a well, you could have other problems like sulfur or bacteria that need to be addressed. But if you feel safe drinking the water, then it's safe for the rats - and you shouldn't be worried about fluoride in your water, or chlorine for that matter.

Mods - might want to sticky this thread or add this tidbit to a sticky? Seems like someone asks this question once every few months around here, could be useful info


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## Zaraxae (Apr 1, 2014)

Thank you very much! That's exactly what I needed to know. I wouldn't have minded switching to bottled much, but I was anxious to know if the tap water I've been giving them is harmful.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

As said previously, if you drink it, it's fine for the rats.

My water tastes disgusting and smells like a public pool. I refuse to drink it, so my animals don't drink it either.

(Unfortunately, stickies are not often read and don't prevent repeat threads from happening.)


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## jeriibearii (Jul 26, 2014)

ratmode said:


> The fluoride levels in tap water will not cause brain damage to rats. 0.8 mg/L is equal to 0.8 parts per million. The levels recommended by health orgs vary by climate, but remember, it's calculated per unit volume, so you don't have to worry about dose adjustments. Generally speaking the highest recommended fluoride level is around 1.2 ppm (it varies based on climate). Higher than that and you might see dental fluorosis and possibly bone problems in developing rats, but brain damage from fluoride is very very rare (unless you're exposed to it in SUPER high concentrations).Most of the people claiming that fluoride is a neurotoxin forget the most basic principle of toxicology: the dose makes the poison. Heck, water itself is a poison in large enough quantities. The rule I follow is this - if it's good enough for me, then it's good enough for the rats. My rats drink tap water all day long, LOVE it, and are ridiculously healthy. Don't put hydrofluoric acid in the water and they'll thrive and love you for hydrating them So, long story short - fluoridated tap water is safe for rats. If you get your water from a well, you could have other problems like sulfur or bacteria that need to be addressed. But if you feel safe drinking the water, then it's safe for the rats - and you shouldn't be worried about fluoride in your water, or chlorine for that matter.Mods - might want to sticky this thread or add this tidbit to a sticky? Seems like someone asks this question once every few months around here, could be useful info


Ahh!! Very informative! I do drink our water without a second thought so we should be all good then! I wouldn't have minded giving them distilled water either, as I get it for my beta fish anyway lol. Thank you for the peace of mind!


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## Dan203 (Jul 10, 2014)

jeriibearii said:


> I wouldn't have minded giving them distilled water eithe


You should never drink distilled water, nor give it to your animals. Distilled water has no minerals in it which means it will actually leach minerals from your body in an attempt to balance itself with the other water in your body, which in turn can cause an electrolyte imbalance and actually dehydrate you. Some people will do it as part of a cleanse, since it will also suck bad stuff from your body, but if you drink too much you can actually suck too many good minerals from your body and go into cardiac arrest.


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## jeriibearii (Jul 26, 2014)

Dan203 said:


> You should never drink distilled water, nor give it to your animals. Distilled water has no minerals in it which means it will actually leach minerals from your body in an attempt to balance itself with the other water in your body, which in turn can cause an electrolyte imbalance and actually dehydrate you. Some people will do it as part of a cleanse, since it will also suck bad stuff from your body, but if you drink too much you can actually suck too many good minerals from your body and go into cardiac arrest.


Woah, really?  then what's the point of it?? I've only ever drank it once but still wow that's interesting!


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## Dan203 (Jul 10, 2014)

It's meant for things where you need completely sterile pure water. For example I use it in my netti pot when my allergies flare up or I'm sick. If you use tap water it's possible to get an amoeba infection in your brain and die. It's also good for flushing out cuts and cleaning things because it leaves no residue when it dries.


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## EmilyGPK (Jul 7, 2014)

I have never heard of rats being more sensitive to flouride than any other mammal (like humans).


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## jeriibearii (Jul 26, 2014)

Dan203 said:


> It's meant for things where you need completely sterile pure water. For example I use it in my netti pot when my allergies flare up or I'm sick. If you use tap water it's possible to get an amoeba infection in your brain and die. It's also good for flushing out cuts and cleaning things because it leaves no residue when it dries.


Ahhhh wow well that's good to know! So it IS good for the beta fish then, right? Or no?


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## Dan203 (Jul 10, 2014)

Actually based on a quick Google search distilled water isn't good for beta fish either. It can suck the minerals from their body and cause them to lose their color and change their behavior.


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## jeriibearii (Jul 26, 2014)

Dan203 said:


> Actually based on a quick Google search distilled water isn't good for beta fish either. It can suck the minerals from their body and cause them to lose their color and change their behavior.


Eek!!! What the.. Everything I thought I knew.. I'll have to google what the best water is for him then!!


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Distilled water is perfectly fine for both human and rat consumption. *Please do not perpetuate these myths without facts.
*
Distilled water WILL absorb minerals, but only those in excess that have already been rejected to the body and making their way toward the liver and kidneys. In this regard, it's actually beneficial for older male rats as it has great potential to lessen the load.


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## Dan203 (Jul 10, 2014)

Water always wants to balance. It's a well known process called osmosis. When you introduce distilled water into your system the existing water will want to balance which can cause an electrolyte imbalance. It probably wont kill you, as you likely take in enough sodium from food sources to get things back in balance, but why risk it? Distilled water certainly isn't better for you then regular water.


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## ratmode (May 15, 2014)

Distilled, filtered, and de-ionized water are perfectly safe for humans and other animals to consume. It will not dehydrate you - your kidneys regulate the electrolyte balance of your bodily fluids. It would take A LOT of distilled or de-ionized water to actually have negative health effects (though reports of "water intoxication" are documented in the literature - and they occur with all types of water, not just de-ionized water). It's true that water always wants to balance, but you must keep in mind that the inside of your body is "unbalanced" all the time: there's a concentration gradient of ions that exists across all cellular membranes. So drinking water without electrolytes in it just means that your kidneys will have to compensate.

Another issue is that "regular" water doesn't actually have a definition. There's a continuum of mineral content - some minerals are OK and perhaps beneficial. But if you have too many minerals - "hard water" - you might actually speed up calcification of heart valves etc. by drinking unfiltered water. Again, none of this is well-documented in the literature. But any type of purified water is perfectly safe for human consumption, despite what you may have heard - and if it is safe for human consumption, it is also safe for rat consumption.

For me, the reason I don't usually drink bottled water is the cost and excess. Why would I want to pay so much money for a bottle of water when I have perfectly good, clean water that I can get for a fraction of a cent out of the tap? Also, bottled water from certain sources contains more microbes than tap water per unit volume - though the level is still insanely low to the point of being negligible.


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## deedeeiam (Apr 8, 2014)

Distilled water is perfectly safe. I'm always amazed at the myths that get perpetuated. 

All my animals get treated water. I have a 55 gallon tank in my basement that I treat for chlorine and such. The Floride levels won't hurt the rats, but my concern are all the other chemicals (See WV's water issue earlier this year or Toledo's more recently.)


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## jeriibearii (Jul 26, 2014)

And yesterday when I went to google about water I came up with a YouTube video all about flouride in water and how it's basically really bad at any percentage and it's the only forced mass medicine intake blah blah so basically who knows anything these days lol!!!?? For every yes there's 5 no's. I guess we all just do the best we can with the info we gather and that's that. :/ maybe there is no right or wrong answer..


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## Jessiferatu (Apr 30, 2014)

From what I understand, it's not really good for anyone to ingest fluoride as it's meant as a topical (for teeth) and not to be ingested. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


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## jeriibearii (Jul 26, 2014)

Jessiferatu said:


> From what I understand, it's not really good for anyone to ingest fluoride as it's meant as a topical (for teeth) and not to be ingested. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


That was basically the point of the little video I watched. To me it makes no sense but what am I supposed to do in this world lol?! Normal purification systems (they said) don't do anything to flouride, only reverse osmosis thingies.. So I guess if we all drink bottled water it'll be safe? I dont know!! XD


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## ratmode (May 15, 2014)

jeriibearii said:


> And yesterday when I went to google about water I came up with a YouTube video all about flouride in water and how it's basically really bad at any percentage and it's the only forced mass medicine intake blah blah so basically who knows anything these days lol!!!?? For every yes there's 5 no's. I guess we all just do the best we can with the info we gather and that's that. :/ maybe there is no right or wrong answer..


Actually, there are very definite right and wrong answers. Unfortunately you have met the world of conspiracy science and quack medicine in the most unpleasant way. Because you are concerned for your rat, you will pay extra attention to anything that says "POSSIBLY DANGEROUS". The people who perpetuate fluoride myths and conspiracies know this, which is why they hype up the danger so much while not actually bringing any evidence to the table.

If you go to PubMed or some other medical journal search engine like Google Scholar and type "fluoride", you will find a lot of articles - and you'll find most of them supporting the notion that fluoride is safe to ingest at low concentrations (currently defined as somewhere between 0.8 and 1.2 ppm). I don't want to get political with this post but you'll find that people who believe fluoride is mass poisoning usually also harbor a number of other conspiratorial, anti-science beliefs as well - the idea that vaccines are a population control tool, for example, or the idea that the contrails behind jet aircraft are actually "chemtrails" that are designed to keep the population docile and stupid. Their tactics mostly include fear-mongering and tenuous connections ("did you know that HITLER drank water with fluoride in it?!"), but when you ask them to support their theories with actual evidence, you will find that they fall short.

The preponderance of medical evidence supports the notion that fluoridated water is perfectly safe for humans and other animals to consume. Any claims to the contrary should be supported by solid evidence in the form of a peer-reviewed journal article. In fact you'll find a number of literature reviews and meta-analyses which analyze the available literature for you, and all of them come to the same conclusion.

Do not believe everything you see on YouTube. Think about it this way: if there's really a massive conspiracy that's powerful enough to control the entire world's water supply, why aren't they powerful enough to delete one lousy YouTube video?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

First things first. I'm from Florida where it was rather routine for water to go bad and need treated and have high levels. I moved and am in Toledo where we seem to be having nothin but crises. In Florida, part in due to hurricanes, we always kept jugs of clean water. In Ohio, it's not common practice so our water emergency was awful. For that reason always always keep bottled water in the house!!

Now, since our water has been wonky two weeks ago our chemical levels are off the chart (you can see a pool test being used on "clean" toledo water and failing that test worse than a treated pool). If it's not chlorine, it's the **** algae. 

My rats have started refusing tap water. So. That's something. The tpa is supposed to be safe and myself and my dogs and my birds have been drinking it. I know it smells and tastes off. 

I don't know about the whole distilled or not debate but I do know that I'll be stockin up on .89 jugs for daily use. I do believe if I remember correctly water is distilled for medical use at least in dialysis.


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## jeriibearii (Jul 26, 2014)

ratmode said:


> Actually, there are very definite right and wrong answers. Unfortunately you have met the world of conspiracy science and quack medicine in the most unpleasant way. Because you are concerned for your rat, you will pay extra attention to anything that says "POSSIBLY DANGEROUS". The people who perpetuate fluoride myths and conspiracies know this, which is why they hype up the danger so much while not actually bringing any evidence to the table.If you go to PubMed or some other medical journal search engine like Google Scholar and type "fluoride", you will find a lot of articles - and you'll find most of them supporting the notion that fluoride is safe to ingest at low concentrations (currently defined as somewhere between 0.8 and 1.2 ppm). I don't want to get political with this post but you'll find that people who believe fluoride is mass poisoning usually also harbor a number of other conspiratorial, anti-science beliefs as well - the idea that vaccines are a population control tool, for example, or the idea that the contrails behind jet aircraft are actually "chemtrails" that are designed to keep the population docile and stupid. Their tactics mostly include fear-mongering and tenuous connections ("did you know that HITLER drank water with fluoride in it?!"), but when you ask them to support their theories with actual evidence, you will find that they fall short.The preponderance of medical evidence supports the notion that fluoridated water is perfectly safe for humans and other animals to consume. Any claims to the contrary should be supported by solid evidence in the form of a peer-reviewed journal article. In fact you'll find a number of literature reviews and meta-analyses which analyze the available literature for you, and all of them come to the same conclusion.Do not believe everything you see on YouTube. Think about it this way: if there's really a massive conspiracy that's powerful enough to control the entire world's water supply, why aren't they powerful enough to delete one lousy YouTube video?


Ohhhh so like the people that think 9/11 was planned and all that? Illuminati and stuff? Yeah if don't read too much into that stuff it's just scary when it's about health and safety of ourselves and our pets. It sounds so true like ya that makes sense but the odds it's true are probably slim to none..And I've always said that about YouTube videos and the conspiracies! Like if it was really a big secret why would they want you to know so wouldn't they delete all the videos lol?? I've been to some rural areas with well water and it smells less than pleasant but where we are at in FL I don't think I have any concerns with the water.The fish I'm just a little more concerned about because their ph and all that and I never really trust those "drops" for the tap water. My grandfathers gf had a beta last two years and he was huge and beautiful I've never seen one that big and he just recently died and she's the one who told me about using the distilled water. But our guy is just in a little bowl so using a bottle or two of bottled water isn't that big of a deal to me lol.


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## jeriibearii (Jul 26, 2014)

nanashi7 said:


> First things first. I'm from Florida where it was rather routine for water to go bad and need treated and have high levels. I moved and am in Toledo where we seem to be having nothin but crises. In Florida, part in due to hurricanes, we always kept jugs of clean water. In Ohio, it's not common practice so our water emergency was awful. For that reason always always keep bottled water in the house!!Now, since our water has been wonky two weeks ago our chemical levels are off the chart (you can see a pool test being used on "clean" toledo water and failing that test worse than a treated pool). If it's not chlorine, it's the **** algae. My rats have started refusing tap water. So. That's something. The tpa is supposed to be safe and myself and my dogs and my birds have been drinking it. I know it smells and tastes off. I don't know about the whole distilled or not debate but I do know that I'll be stockin up on .89 jugs for daily use. I do believe if I remember correctly water is distilled for medical use at least in dialysis.


I always have bottled water around and when I remember, purified gallons too. Just because I love the convenience of drinking the water bottle, if I go somewhere I can take it with me.. Plus being pregnant I need to drink a lot (though I drink a lot of water anyway) and I just hate filling and refilling cups and they never stay cold like I like lol.If anyone of my pets started to refuse the tap water I would be really puzzled but it would also make me think they can sense something I can't and I would just give them bottled/purified.


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## deedeeiam (Apr 8, 2014)

You know that when they bottle water, most of it is actually from the same treated water that gets funneled into your house? And that to make it last, they fill the bottles with bleach, then dump it out...and immediately put the water in it? The chemicals in the bottling process are what makes bottled water last so long.


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## jeriibearii (Jul 26, 2014)

deedeeiam said:


> You know that when they bottle water, most of it is actually from the same treated water that gets funneled into your house? And that to make it last, they fill the bottles with bleach, then dump it out...and immediately put the water in it? The chemicals in the bottling process are what makes bottled water last so long.


Even those fancy ones that cost like $2.99 a bottle? I don't get those kind but just wondering.


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## deedeeiam (Apr 8, 2014)

Some. Each one is different. The FDA has regulations on each of the separate types. Mineral water can have a certain amounts of solubles. Spring water just has to come from underground somewhere. Bunch of different rules that don't actually stop chemicals from being added.


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## JordanGG (Feb 9, 2021)

ratmode said:


> The fluoride levels in tap water will not cause brain damage to rats. 0.8 mg/L is equal to 0.8 parts per million. The levels recommended by health orgs vary by climate, but remember, it's calculated per unit volume, so you don't have to worry about dose adjustments. Generally speaking the highest recommended fluoride level is around 1.2 ppm (it varies based on climate). Higher than that and you might see dental fluorosis and possibly bone problems in developing rats, but brain damage from fluoride is very very rare (unless you're exposed to it in SUPER high concentrations).
> 
> Most of the people claiming that fluoride is a neurotoxin forget the most basic principle of toxicology: the dose makes the poison. Heck, water itself is a poison in large enough quantities. The rule I follow is this - if it's good enough for me, then it's good enough for the rats. My rats drink tap water all day long, LOVE it, and are ridiculously healthy. Don't put hydrofluoric acid in the water and they'll thrive and love you for hydrating them
> 
> ...


Hey , my rat is caged in my room and my room also happens to have the washer and dryer in it , the washer tends to give off a very pungent sulfur smell (our house is sulfur) , could the string smell harm my rat ? We are getting switched to well water soon but I’m paranoid to know if it is harming her


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