# Need help taming my terrified new rats. Still wont let me near them!



## Mike&Sully'sMummy

I've had the boys 4 days now, and despite me doing everything that everyone has told me too (sitting next to the cage talking to them, hand feeding them treats, letting them come to me and sniff my hand etc..) they're still just as scared, if not more! Earlier, the siamese bit me as I was stroking him, out of fear. They like coming out in their cage at night, but during the day when I'm usually in my room, most of the time, they are in bed sleeping or hiding under tunnels and in pouches, anywhere to get away from me. If they see me, they freeze or run and hide. The braver one, the berkshire, has come and climbed halfway up my arm once, but soon ran off. They don't seem to like treats much either. They're about 10-12 weeks old, and don't seem to have been handled much before. I really want them to like me. Any tips?


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## gal5150

Ive been having great success with letting my completely unsocialized 7 week olds play in my shirt. I put a sweatshirt on and put them in it. Been doing so for a week and now they're going into it on their own, especially if startled during free range time. Got my forst boggle today! Im pro respectful forced socialization. At the end of the day the only way to get them used to you is to interact with them, IMO. Also, as they free range I gently pick them up and put them down again a number of times so they dont jusr associate picking up with leaving the cage or going back. Expect some fear poop, but that will decrease as they habituate to you. Good luck!


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## Mike&Sully'sMummy

I would but I'm scared to pick them up because they just don't let me! They freeze, and if I got to touch them they bolt. I really dont know what to do. I don't want to be bitten badly, because I know I won't react very calmly to that and don't want them to be even more scared of me... But if i go to pick them up, I feel like theyll bite...It's so difficult.


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## Mike&Sully'sMummy

I haven't even been able to get them out for free range time, because of this.


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## gal5150

A couple of suggestions for getting the gents out.....pick them up in whatever it is that they sleep in. If they have nesting box/tunnel, etc. wait until they're curled up in it and lift them out carefully and place it with them in the free range area. Try putting a shoe box or the like in there with torn up toilet paper or paper towels and you have an instant sleepy rat carrier! You can also place the cage in the free range area with the door open if it's small enough. My cage is HUGE so I bought a hamster cage for the boys to hang out in in different areas of the house to habituate them to the noises of my home as it wasn't reasonable to do so with the main cage. A key to this whole free range time is that you be physically in the space with them. If you're there hovering over them its not only kicks in predator/prey instinct but it also doesn't allow them to safely explore you without the pressure of being directly handled. Getting them back in to the cage/box, hidey is easy as cake...they'll startle and run back for safety in the beginning so one of the times that they do choose that time to end free range. 

Waiting for others to chime in but I believe that timid handling makes for timid critters. If you hesitate when reaching for your boys, they'll hesitate as well...if the big giant is afraid then certainly the teeny rattie boys should be as well kind of thing. Its no fun to be bit, that's for sure...but I think of it like this, if its going to happen its better that it happen now when they're still kids because it a) will do less damage physically b) will do less damage emotionally for you both. You have to move past the fear of them biting if you're to enjoy your boys. I'm speaking from experience on this one. I've had pet rats, worked with rats in a lab, etc but until I had kids my only experience with guinea pigs was being bitten as a kid. We currently have two female guinea pigs and I was ridiculously terrified that they would bite. As mom of the house, it is my job to take care of all of our pets and I had to get over the fear pretty quickly as they came to us with URI's and required meds to be syringe fed twice daily. They got better and nevber bit during the process. However, turns out one has poor vision and mistakes our hands often for the mouth of her sister stealing food so when she's eating a treat she lunges and nips. For a few days it really ruined the quality of our relationship because the old fears I had came flooding back. Then I decided that there was no point in having the guinea pigs if it was just to superficially interact with them, that a bite would hurt but not kill me, and that if I couldn't get over it we needed to rehome the girls. Well, I got over it and the mad nipper is my favorite of the two...and still nipping but before she can touch skin I say "Hey!" and she stops. My point, I guess, is that you have to face the fear and conquer it or it wont be fair to you or your boys. They're little strangers on your turf, be confident and let them know that your home is safe and loving and nothing to be afraid of. You can do it! I promise! If I could get past the fear with the guinea pigs...you can do it for sure!

Sarah


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## gal5150

Found a link for you, in particular check out the section on learned behavior..http://www.shadowrat.com/rats/biters.htmlI don't at all equate you to the example they give but it's a good example that if a rat nips to get you to leave it alone and you do....what's the reason to stop nipping?! Pretty effective human training! Don't want your boys learning that nipping gets them what they want!Sarah


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## Mike&Sully'sMummy

Thank you so much, Sarah. I will try that this evening, when I get home. As you can tell, I'm a first time rattie owner, and only 16, so these boys are my first pets that are all my responsibility. It's making me a little nervous. I will try taking out their bed, although they've bitten through the back to make 2 entrances, so I'll have to block one entrance off with something. My cage is a Ferplast Furet Plus, so it's fairly big and heavy, but I may be able to get my boyfriend to lift it down onto the floor if he's around. Once again, thanks for the help. I'll keep you updated.


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## gal5150

Make it easy on yourself and just do the box trick. I only had their little cage in the free range space for 3 days because I wanted to gently push them to explore me. If I hadn't I believe it would have taken them longer. Make sure the free range spot is secure, the last thing you want to do is have to fish them out of a tight spot. So, free range spot...I like bed covered with something I don't mind them pooping on, the box, a hides spot (anything covered..tunnel, shoe box turned over with two holes cut out of either side for a tunnel, etc), treats, and you sitting on the bed. Start with that. In a few days if they are only hiding under the tunnel take it out and leave just the transport box and you! Be ready for them to climb into your shirt when the do explore you. Their nails are sharp and you may mistake that feeling for a nip and I don't want you to panic. So, put a sweatshirt or something over your shirt so they can hang out in between layers. You can do it!!! They'll startle when you breathe, adjust, etc...that's ok. They need to get used to it and they will the more you expose them to you! Keep me posted! Sarah


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## Mike&Sully'sMummy

I think I may have just ruined any chances of getting them to bond with me. I left the cage door open, and let them come out onto the bed, and one did, and he was climbing around my bed with me, and then decided to jump off the bed and go on the floor. Because of this, I had to spend 45 minutes trying to get him out of under the bed, and it stressed him out so much. I tried picking him up but he was so fast and kept getting away. In the end, I forced the rat who was still in the cage out of their bed, and lured him into that, so that I could get him back into his cage. However, he is now terrified and sitting in the cage with the other rat, looking very stressed. I am literally in tears because I feel like I've made things 100 times worse, and don't know if he'll ever be able to trust me now, after this. What should I do to fix this?


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## gal5150

Do nothing different. It happens and he'll get over it. Had a snatch and grab moment with Phineas similar a week into it and we're totally good now. The key is for you to feel horrible and beat yourself up...then let it go!!! You haven't ruined anything. If anything, be super proud that they came out of the cage at all! You're doing a great job! Try again tonight but this time take the box into the bathtub and sit in there with them. If they climb on your shoulder tilt forward so they can't hop off on to the tub rim. Do these sessions for at least 20 min a time, twice a day. A rat cannot hold stress longer than 20 min so after that point the just cope. You ruined nothing, I promise. You just scared each other. Remember, timid handling...timid rat. I find in these situations cornering then laying hand flat at scooping is less threatening than hand over head to grab from above. Also, your palm is flat so very hard to nip. Use the other hand to from above once the rat is semi on your flat hand...generally trying to escape. You can do this!!! You have to or it's going to at best stay the same and at worst it will do just that, get worse. PM me when you need support. These guys are a joy, not a stress or fear....know that, believe it, and be confident. They'll only trust you if you trust yourself!Sarah


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## Smilebud

Try scooping them up with both hand instead of grabbing them, like Sarah said, if they're small enough you can do one hand over and one under the belly or you can do both hand either side. It won't solve all your problems and they may still nip, but it helps them trust you. Later you can also try forced scocialization (not as horrible as it seems) where you put them in a sweater your wearing or in a pouch and they eventualy figure out that you wont hurt them.


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## Melfimoo

I am going going through a similar thing with my 3 girls. They are 12 weeks old and I've had them around 4 days. I have had one hide under the tv cabinet and freak out as I chased her about. I've tried havind them in my hoody one at a time. I've tried feeding on spoons,scoop method, taking them into the shower room with me. and every day I approach them it's like they are more scared of me. It's so disheartening. But i am just trying to be patient and encouraging. I talk to them a lot. I sit by the open cage. And I'll continue to give them time in my hoody each day. and hopefully they will realise I'm not trying to eat them.


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## RadiantRatties

Have you tried immersion?


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## Melfimoo

RadiantRatties said:


> Have you tried immersion?


This is what I was trying when Frenchy ended up under the tv unit. I put a big blanket on my coffee table and brought her out on it to run about. But she heard something,freaked and ran off the table.  I spent 10 mins trying to grab her and get her back in cage.


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## LittleBird

This is all great advice but I think you need to give yourself and your ratties a break. You've only had them 4 days. That is hardly enough time for them to feel comfortable in their new home with all the new smells and sounds and now suddenly this giant keeps trying to grab them. It's got to be very intimidating for them. I know you want a loving relationship with them but it takes time to build mutual trust and respect. 

I've only had my four girls for about 5 weeks now and they are all completely bonded with me. But I didn't even try to pick them up the first week. I spent that time talking to them, putting my arms in the cage so they'd get used to my scent, feeding them treats, and just generally building trust. I allowed them to set the pace for when they were ready to be picked up. And you know what? They DID let me know! After a week, they suddenly began climbing up my arms onto my chest and shoulders and it was on! Now they are the most loving little girls you've ever seen! They get so excited whenever they see me and I'll have all 4 of them climbing on me, kissing me, snuggling under my chin, and it's awesome! 

My advice is to just be patient with them and keep trying to earn their trust. They may just surprise you in a few days.


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## Dan203

My scaredy cat one, Tempy, is still super skittish after 6 weeks. However he has improved. When we first got him he would just freeze whenever we came near him and if we picked him up he would fear poop all over. For weeks what I did was I'd grab him and then take him into the tub with me and just let him go. He'd pee/poop all over me, while frantically looking for a place to hide, but eventually it lessened. (I'd always shower after) Eventually he started crawling inside my shirt, but even with me doing this for hour long stints several days a week, and talking/singing to him the whole time, he still never really warmed up to me. What really made the biggest difference is Buddy. Buddy is the cage mate we bought for Tempy. Buddy is super friendly and curious. He'll come right over to you and crawl all over you. After Tempy saw this he started to get a lot braver. He's still supper skittish, but he'll come out of his cage now and play. Although he sticks near the walls or under the blanket pile. And if we make any sudden moves he'll dart for the nearest hiding place. Last night he was out playing with Buddy and I accidentally banged into something and made a loud noise, he darted under the cage and fear pooped all over. I had to move the cage to get him out. (normally I can coax him out with treats) He's slowly getting better, but it's frustrating compared to Buddy who is so happy go lucky and afraid of almost nothing.


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## lovemyfurries

Sometimes it takes a lot of time for the trust to come. My boy who I started out just fostering took months to trust hubbie and I completely. He's still very skittish around my daughter. He got really sick a while ago and we had him sleep in our bed for two nights and that really bonded us. We love him so so much now. I had doubts in the beginning though. Good luck! 

After his vet visit he also seems to trust us more now and after two antibiotics and heart meds, he's right as rain, full of beans.


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## Dan203

How did you have him sleep in your bed? I'd be afraid I'd roll over and smush him.


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## lovemyfurries

We didn't sleep much, we just wanted him close as his breathing was so bad and he was hardly moving, not eating. We thought we were going to lose him. So the whole night between hubbie and I we were like...where's Monty, oh there. And the cutest part is he took turns either lying in the crook of my hubbie's arm or on my neck and chest. Can't do it now, he'll be all over the place


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## lovemyfurries

this was Monty before the vet visit. I was terrified we were losing him. He stayed like that on my shoulder all the way to the vet and back with a soft blankie over him. So relieved he's got his spark back. He's very special.


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## Dan203

Awww.

I had one unexpectedly die because I didn't realize how sick he was. He seemed relatively active, I even took him out that morning and let him run around on me in the tub. Then I went back to the cage that afternoon and he was dead.  I was still new to Rats so I didn't realize he was sick until I started investigating after the fact. Now looking back I see there were signs. I wish I had known because we probably could have saved him. But then again if we had saved him then we never would have gotten Buddy, and I'd really have missed out had we never gotten Buddy.


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## lovemyfurries

That's so sad, but we learn more every time. At first we just thought he was aging because he was fostered originally we never knew how old he was. At the same time we had a black hoodie who wasn't doing well either, he was our oldest about 2 and a half. It was Sunday but we found a vet that was only open for one hour ! We made it and got the right meds for Monty, but we lost our old guy, Thing 2, he had a Brain tumor. I nursed him for about another week and then he couldn't anymore...but his last week he had total free range in our lounge, I let him be where he was most comfortable, fed him off my finger, only soft food, in the end he only took soft butter off my finger. When he slept we left him to sleep and when he heard commotion he made his way slowly to where we were ( he'd gone blind ) the morning he didn't come out we decided it was time. I can't believe that was only last Tuesday!! Thank God Monty recovered otherwise he would have been number 4 this year alone. We always question ourselves afterwards about whether we could have done more, or if we'd done this instead of that...or maybe if we had more knowledge, more time. That's normal I think? What irks me is that there are people out there who purposefully hurt these beautiful, intelligent, lovable creatures.


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## Dan203

It's funny because when my wife originally purposed getting some guinea pigs, which live like 8 years, I suggested rats instead because they only live a couple years and it was less of a commitment. Now that we have them, and I love them so much, I'm dreading their short lifespans. It's weird how quickly you can bond to another creature.


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## lovemyfurries

I know, it's quite amazing!


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## kayepaye

Dan203 said:


> How did you have him sleep in your bed? I'd be afraid I'd roll over and smush him.


When one of my boys died, his cagemate was SO depressed. He stayed glued to me, and would claw my arms off if I tried to put him back in his cage. That night he slept in bed with me and stayed snuggled in the crook of my neck. It was ADORABLE, and it made him feel better. I was so worried that I would squash him but he never moved all night so I always knew where he was.


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## lovemyfurries

It is such an amazing experience that these little guys trust us so much. We don't get much sleeping when it happens...but wow. Thought my hubbie and I were weird, maybe being the only ones to have done it. I even googled online first to see if any had possibly been squished that way!


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