# Intros went great.. Now we're going backward? Please advise!!



## MangoTango (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi all,
So as I've posted here before, I recently intro'd two eight week old girls to two ten month old girls. It took a few days of spending time in neutral places out of the cage but soon all was calm so I moved them in to the big cage together (on last Tuesday). There was some squeaking and pinning but aside from the occasional rumble everyone seemed happy, to the point where they were eating together and all four would sleep cozy in the hammock together in a big rat pile. But last night, things got rough between the resident rats and the babies to the point where I had to separate them again. There was no blood but everyone was fluffed up and the biggest concern for me was the noises - I have never ever heard such screams come from the rats! It was truly frightening. What's happening and how should I proceed? It's my first time doing intros so any advice is greatly appreciated!


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Do you think they were in heat?


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## PawsandClaws (Jul 22, 2014)

Try to observe what is causing the fighting, I find that this helps me figure out what needs doing (if anything) on my end of the sphere. Since it has not been very long since you moved everybody in, conflicts can and do happen. The general rule is that as long as nobody is getting hurt, they should eventually work it out among themselves. A couple of things that I find help me when I do the first "big move":

1.) A full cage clean and re-arrange. I think this is very important. I try to use brand new liners and hammocks and thoroughly clean out the cage (hose down and air dry). I then rearrange all the ratty toys and furniture in a way that is brand new to everyone. I will even move shelves/ladders and water bottles. This makes the intended cage a completely new territory. 

2.) I make sure there are 2 water bottles and 2 feeding bowls available if I find they are squabbling over those. I have had rats that would resource guard water before which caused a lot of conflict in the cage. Adding another bottle in a different place curbed guarding completely. 

3.) If I see that fighting seems to happen over a sleeping spot, I either remove the spot or make the cage very empty and slowly start re-introducing furniture again. If they fight over it, I fall back a step. 

I know it is very difficult to hear all the anguish and I would definitely keep an eye out for injuries but it is often best to let them figure it out. Good luck!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Unlike boys, that tend to resolve most of their issues during intros, girls sometimes battle for a while after intros. After intros, our first and finest true shoulder rat and her roomie our part wild rat would have a fight every few days when we let them out for free range time... where I could supervise. They didn't fight in the cage... this went on for weeks and finally Fuzzy Rat started barbering our part wild girls rump and eventually bit her on her hind thigh...

The next morning there were two neat puncture wounds around Fuzzy Rat's trachea, no other marks on her body... No more barbering and no more fighting... ever... Our part wild rat was quite a bit smaller than Fuzzy Rat, but she was absolutely lethal when provoked... thankfully she was just proving a point, it would have been easy for her to kill Fuzzy Rat any time she wanted... And Fuzzy Rat was no fool, she got the message and peace and friendship ensued. 

So some female rats will still fight until they work out all of their differences even after intros... and some female rats will always squabble, usually I just shout "Rats Stop Fighting!" and they knock it off.

Best luck.


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## MangoTango (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi all, thanks so much for your responses. 
It doesn't seem to be a food or water related thing, as they have four food dishes plus three water bottles and one water dish between the four of them (I'm overly cautious, haha). One thing Ive really noticed is that it gets worse at night. They're great during the day but the second the light is off and I'm in bed (they're in my room with me), the scuffles begin. I've been separating them just at night for the last few days.. Is this a good idea? In the daytime they're all happy to eat, play, and sleep together but at night they squeal and pin and box. Is this normal for intros? Should I keep separating at night or is this doing more harm than good?


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## MangoTango (Jul 15, 2014)

I also want to mention that Mango (one of the resident rats, 10mo old) has begun to "puff up" her fur when they're scuffling. Is this a sign of true aggression? It's so hard to tell what's "normal" and what's not.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

i wouldnt separate. try tirin them out before bed, giving them something when you go to bed like a pinata or new toy, and leave a night light on.


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## PawsandClaws (Jul 22, 2014)

Puffing up a little is fairly normal I would say. I think separating them at night is doing more harm then good, personally. Our boys also get rambunctious as the lights turn off so this isn't uncommon. They seem to decide that this is the prime time to chase each other, bungee jump down from the shelves, serenade us with squeaks and fight. ;D I would not worry much about them squabbling during the night if the following day they are eating and sleeping together. Rat social relationships are pretty complicated - they love, they hate, they relate and it is all part of their complicated communication with each other. My boys will fight, pin and later cuddle or groom one another. 

I totally understand though. When I first kept rats, it made me very anxious to hear the scuffles and I had to run over and do a head count every single time there was an outburst. I quickly realized however that by breaking them up any time I felt it was 'bad' I was just prolonging their fighting for position in the mischief. If you are really anxious, you could take a video of what interactions are worrying you and post it here for us to guide you on.


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