# Bought my first rat yesterday, by himself



## gotapetrat (Apr 17, 2013)

Hello I'm a little concerned about the rat which I purchased today. I've been reading online about how social they are, and I feel bad for him and want to see what I can do to change this. I went into a pet shop(read this is bad) but I seen this lovely little thing (a rat) staring at me, he was by himself all snug and cuddled. I had to buy him, but he was only by himself in the cage at the store. My concern is that from what I read they are social rodents (much like gerbils, that I've had before). What can I do in terms of getting him a mate (they said he is 5 months old...roughly...) and I'd like to give him a friend to play with and stuff but I don't know the best way of doing so. Help me make the little cute thing happy.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

I would look for another boy, ideally 2 young ones. Rats under 13 weeks are the easiest to introduce to an adult (or really teenager) buck. Introductions are normally fairly straightforward. I use a method nicknamed the carrier method of introductions. If yoj do a google search yoj should find a lot of guides, if not I can link you to one.


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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

Buying from pet shops is 'bad' but if you dont have any rescues near you then no one will blame you for getting rats there.
You could call around to shelters near you and ask if they have any male rats for adoption if you dont want to buy from a pet shop.
You can also google small animal rescues in your area or use petfinder.com to try and find a new boy or two.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Begin by doing immersion and bond with your new rat first... it will make everything easier. Rats are not gerbils and should be treated more like dogs than other rodents. Your rat can, will and should have a meaningful relationship with you. And this is your very first priority.

But as you most likely can't be around all of the time you will probably be best off with getting your rat a friend. With males young adults can work out well together.

Beware, all big box chain pet shop rats are 5 months old. People buy 5 month old rats regardless of how many months it's been since they were born and pet shops know it. I even tried to explain the math to a chain pet shop clerk.... So the rat was how old when you got it? 5 months... how long has it been here? 4 month's.... So how old is it now? 5 months. Either the poor girl couldn't do basic addition or it was a strict store policy to tell anyone who asks that the rats were 5 month's old. The poor girl was almost crying so I gave up. 

Mates as in same sex friends are a good idea, mates as in opposite sex couples usually lead to a population explosion.

Again take a look at the immersion guide for assistance with introductions.

I can't stress this enough, rats are not gerbils, they are even metacognative, everything depends on your being the alpha and having a strong bond with them. 

Treat your rat like you would a very small dog or child and everything will fall into place rather naturally, treat your rats as you would gerbils and things will go badly.


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## gotapetrat (Apr 17, 2013)

Well there are a couple of pictures, hopefully there is nothing wrong with the setup at the moment. Thanks for the responses; I never thought of a rat as a dog or a child but I suppose that should change if I have any chance of making this fella happy. I can see that I will maybe need a bigger cage if I were to introduce a few more younger rats to him. I will check out the techniques mentioned above before making a decision but meanwhile I will attempt to bond with him. I played some music to him yesterday, I don't know if that was counterproductive or not but he was sure curious about it.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Its funny ive always worked on the principle that its more important to settle the rats with each other rather than me. To me they spend 24 7 with there ratty friends and less with me so there settling in and becoming part of the family starts with my other rats. This has always been very straight forward for me, normally I habe the group together in a few hours and a family in a day to a week depending on tbe group. Heres my typical intro

New rats arrive, I have a quick hello with them, check there fine and relaxed, typically they are (note my rats generally come from a good background and are well socialised, however both me and many other people here in the uk use the same techniques with rats from all walks of life). Next I get my current rats, I have a good feel for who each of them is, whose boss and whose likley to give me trouble if any. I take the alpha (unless he is a potential trouble maker) and pop him on the sofa or a similar place with the new guys. I always intro young rats in pairs as its kinder on them to have a friend through the stress. Then I watchthem, I expect him to tumble them and dominantly groom them as well as lots of rough sniffing. I only intervene if he gets wound up and fluffy which is a sign of true aggression rather than dominance. It normally takes a short while and he settles with them. I then add the others, sometimes all together, sometimes one at a time, it depends on how the rats are, potential trouble makers always get left until last. I expect similar rough and tumble, I only intervene if it gets aggressive or injurys occur, which they havnt for me as I tend to spot the warning signs first. I find by introing the alpha first, once he has accepted the newcomers provisionally he will prevent things getting out of hand and I rarely ever need to step in.

After I feel that they are relatively comfortable with each others existance I move them into my cat carrier (rat carrier really as I dont own any cats, it has a water bottle fitted too). I do this in the same order, new rats first, then alpha and so on. Again im watching for any aggression or violent fighting. The most I normally need to do is tap firmly on the outside of the carrier if a big tussle breaks out. This works on the principle that in a close space the dominant rats feel more secure with less terratory to defend from tne invaders and get the heirachy dispites sorted quickly. It also limits the chances of an injury from a rat leaping and running away, which is the most common introduction injury in my experience, prior to using this method. Whilst in here i leavethem together and dont seperate unless a serious fight or blood isdrawn. 

Once they are relaxed around each other (which can be an hour or overnight, or even a couple of days) I either move them into a small low level cage (if its been a slow intro) or into halfmy big cage (if things are goingwell, note, I have an srs which is like a cn). This is bare of anything interesting other than 2 water bottles. There sometimes mild scuffles at first, once ive had to step back to th3 carrier again. Once they relax around each other again they get a fewbits for there cage, maybea hammock and some sticks, later a wheel and so on, until they have a full set up. They dont get any enclosed beds for a good month or two at least, though I do t use them much anyway. The idea is at first to make sure they focus on each other, and that they dont have anything to fight over and defend jntil theyve worked out whose boss. Once im hapoy with them in this enviroment they move up to the full normal cage. On tne odd intro ive gone straight from tne carrier to this as the intro has been so easy and peaceful. 

During this time I do get them out but always together and in a small space like the sofa rather than a full free range. I get to know the new guys a bit this way, but dont split up tne forming group. Sometimes I will get one newbie out with an existing rat, if they need a bit more work, but I rarely need to. Once I feel they are a group I go head first into getting to know them, witn lots of individual handeling and attention, lots of picking up and interaction etc, these are in sessions of an hour or so, as often as I can spare them. Sometimes they come out on tnere own, soemtimes witn tne other newbie, sometimes with an existing rat, it dpeneds on tne rat and the feeling I get from them. They always get some one on one sessions though. It doesnt take us long to form a strong bond, though some rats do take longer depending on there character as im a naturally dominant handler and that can be a surprise to some rats. We are always good friends in a week or two though, some a lot lot faster than that. 

This is all easier with rats from a good, well socialised background, where ideally they have had pleanty of company with other rats and learnt tbere important rat social skills as well as that humans are good. Its still perfectly doable without this though, if you get a choice I would st3ongly recommend getting your rats from a good source, though with a lone rat there happiness is important.

I think immersion training is fine, its just another angle to come at it from, depends on your priorities really.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Isamurat,

I love reading about the UK, honestly it feels like it's the place where good American rats go after they die. Rats being born into loving homes where they are well socialized by humans is so far from the norm here it's barely cognitively imaginable. For every 500 rats raised and sold by reputable breeders there are millions raised as snake food in cramped rat farms. The nicer looking ones are sometimes plucked from the bin and sold as pets.

We adopted Amelia at 7 months old... after living with humans for over 5 months. Her owner actually worked at a pet shop and owned other rats. Still Amelia didn't know her name, she had never been held, hugged or skritched and very likely never had a single treat offered to her. She had been kept with another rat that chewed it's way of of the cage several times in desperation. Amelia was so screwed up she actually just sat in the open cage and wouldn't go exploring according to her previous owner, that thought that that was a good and normal thing for a rat to do. When we got Amelia home, she was in fact a perfect flowerpot. I set her down on my desk and she just sat frozen in one place for several weeks while I taught her her name and commands and tried to communicate with her. 

Here in the US, our rats usually don't come pre-socialized, most are badly neglected and some are severely mistreated. Few, if any, have had any good prior human experiences. It's a real credit to American rats that any make decent pets at all.

To make matters worse, pet shops sell rats as snake food or disposable kids pets. I mean, Gotapetrat is being serious.... he really thought he was buying a big gerbil! And no one at the pet shop bothered to enlighten him. In fact I'd almost bet they grabbed his new rat by the tail and stuffed him into a little box and shoved him across the counter after flogging about $50.00 worth of accouterments on Gotapetrat that came in packages conveniently labeled "for rats". If there weren't a bag labeled "rat food" the clerk would have sent him home with who knows what to feed his rats.

Most of the rats finding homes here in the US don't even have a clue what a human being is much less how to socialize with us and most of the humans that come to Rat Forum think they just got a bargain hamster or gerbil, both often cost more here in the US than rats. I'll bet some of the questions you've read and responses you have received must have been perplexing to an enlightened Brit!

The technical details aside we are accomplishing the same objective; an orderly rat pack bonded around human alphas. With properly socialized rats to start with... I can see where you might start out with introductions. But if you toss a rat that's never met a human into a cage with a bunch of rats that snap at you and each other, I can tell you exactly what you get... It's on the top shelf of my local pet shop... it's the bloody mess labeled "JUMBO FEEDER RATS... $9.95" And even I'm not stupid enough to put my hand in there.


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## gotapetrat (Apr 17, 2013)

I did not think I was buying a big gerbil lol, I did know a rat would be different but I thought they had similar attributes being rodents. I bought my pet from a British shop called [email protected] and they did attempt to inform me a little bit about rats, but everyone working there was younger than me and I'm only 24. I could see they were childish and not well informed about pets, I did not go there to buy a rat but I just got charmed by this one in particular. I am spending time next to the cage a little and he is taking treats from me and storing them in the corner of his home. He does appear quite timid but he is making a little progress I can see that, he was jumping all the time yesterday but now he is in his plastic hammock for the first time and seems to be running around having fun. Pokes his head out at me and has a good sniff out of the cage door. He is really sweet, hope I can make friends with him.


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## gotapetrat (Apr 17, 2013)

Think the poor thing was thirsty too, just squeezed his water bottle and he started rushing to drink... perhaps it is not working... has not gone down so will get him another one tomorrow. I am trying my best lol


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Wherein the uk are you roughly, I may know someone with rats looking for homes. Pets at home isnt great but it isnt nearly as bad as the uk used to be there rescue section sometimes even has some genunine rescues in, just make sure you get boys from there, they have a fair few mis sexing accidents. It would be better if you could find some from a more socialised background though. Try getting hima coup cup too, it hooks onto the bars and is a nice water bowl, a great backup to the bottle.

Rat daddy, its npt all good here either, though its got a lot better in the 25 years ive been keeping rats. I remeber my early rats and being offered them frozen or alive, I must have been 7 or 8 when the pet shop owner asked me that one. Since then rats have become a lot more popular as pets, especially since rattatoui, weve also got a good active rat fancy and several clubs and forums so theres a good community to share ideas and try and drive up standards. Its worked to some extent too, in the early days most pet shops kept rats in tiny tanks on soaked sawdust with little to no toys, shelter or even food sometimes, theres been a lot of lobbying and now most use paper cat litter, offer shelter and toys and clean water bottles, not ideal but I dont flinch when I walk in a pet shop now. We are also a smaller country which means theres a higher density of breeders and rscues, you generally only need to travel an hour or two to get good background ratz maximum, so its doable for most


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## gotapetrat (Apr 17, 2013)

I'm in Coventry.... perhaps I can use the "pet safe disinfectant" that I got from there and use it on the old gerbil food bowl and fill this with water. Can't see how this would harm him. Does appear the same as a coup cup..


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## gotapetrat (Apr 17, 2013)

hahaha this is so funny. I sat by the cage, he popped out his head and looked at me with his goofy eyes... then went slowly back in very casually... and then before I could blink... was back out again giving me a funny look... I never moved or anything... is this an individual thing? It is freaking me out lol... and he did it again... it's like he is testing me... by turning his back and then quickly turning around to see if I'm doing something when his back is turned


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## gotapetrat (Apr 17, 2013)

Can't edit previous post for whatever reason. I am a little scared of him, perhaps should have started with a baby one.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Heres some rescue rats by area, i will admit my south of manchester geography is poor at best, often rat trains can be organised if you cant get to the rats, especially for cases lkke this, so dont let distance pjt you off yet

http://www.fancyratsforum.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=54&sid=422c436b0b70ce94b28db30b07d180c5

In terms of breeders you seem very near Annette at Brandywine rats, she has some wonderful rats and I completely recommend them, 3 of my lads are part brandywine and are really lovely creatures. She has a couple of litters at the moment too but im not sure if theyve all got homes or not yet. Its worth getting in touch as she also may have a better idea of rescues and other breeder litters in the area too. Its also worth looking into the midlands rat club as thats your local club.

It sounds like hes not sure wether or not to trust you much like you are him. I would start by removing his little house, so he can see that when hes not in his house you dont pounce on him, then you need to spend lots of time with him ojt of the cage, and even in it. Be confident and try and ignore the fact your a bit scared, confidence is one of the best ways to help him feel confident, nothing can replace time spent together, though getting a couple of confident yojngsters may help teach him yojr safe too.


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## gotapetrat (Apr 17, 2013)

Thanks, not sure about the breeds of rats being a complete newbie and don't know the difference. No idea what mine is. He seems to miss me when I leave the cage now  ... looks to see where I am.... still after he bit my wife my hand seems to divert itself away from the cage... it was a proper bite not a nip or anything else. It was probably her fault I know how impatient, noisey and hyper she can be. I will check out the link you sent to me, does not seem like there is anything in the midlands on there though. Not sure how to find Annette, being my first time with rats not sure how keen she would be to let me take some from her.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

you can find info on Brandywine rats here http://www.rattycorner.com/rats/breeding/breedingframe.html . The normal process would be you fill out the application form and send it over, i'd make it clear you've got a lone rat and want to find him friends as soon as possible (and ask for any other sources she knows of if shes not got any rats going spare). Don't be worried if you don't know all the answers or that your not an experienced rat owner. If your honest and willing to listen to advice then most breeders will happily take on people like that. In our past litters a fair proportion have gone to new or very inexperienced owners and there some of our best homes as they are so willing to share how there rats are getting on etc. 

In terms of breeds, don't worry about that, rats generally come in varities rather than breeds and all are the same type of animal and so can be integrated together (contrary to what some pets at home stores claim, as they try and sell dumbo rats as special and seperate from standard or top eared rats). If your interested he looks like an agouti hooded. 

He's definitly willing to get to know you, and food motivated which helps a lot, give him time and friends and you'll be best buddies.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

The following link will fix your problems. Your poor guy is in a strange place without a friend and he's very confused... Do I belong here? Who is in charge? What are the rules? Who is my friend? And what the heck are those strange huge creatures doing and where are they coming from and going?

http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?67442-Immersion-Training-The-Guide

As he has bitten, bring a few bath towels and gloves into the immersion area with you for your protection and his. The longer you draw out the meet and greet process the worse things are likely to get. Once he accepts you as his alpha, the biting will stop and the fun will begin. I've been rat bit by a part-wild rat, so you have every good reason to be apprehensive, but you are huge and threatening to your little guy so he has every good reason to be very afraid of you. And as he's trapped in a cage he's got no place to run so he's got no choice but to fight. In the immersion area, he will have more running room and won't feel as cornered. He's still likely to put up a mock fight for dominance but it's ceremonial not a combat for survival.

Isamurat is very much right, get him out of his cage ASAP and get hands on, there is no benefit to waiting and confusing him more by you keeping away from him. Although I wouldn't put my hand into the cage without gloves until he is though immersion first. The immersion area is neutral territory, or rather it's your territory which he will feel no need to defend and you will both feel more comfortable with a little maneuvering room.

As immersion usually works with only one long marathon session you most likely won't need to take his hiding place away. But you should follow up daily with lengthy out of cage play sessions. 

As to reaching into the cage after immersion... one of my girls actually grabs my shirt and tries to pull me into the cage. Rats aren't big on comparative volumetrics, I'd be happy to go in, but I just won't fit. I really didn't think to put a stop to shirt tugging and now she does it whenever she wants my attention or to tell me something. So far at least she hasn't punched any holes into my shirts.

As to the water bottle, if you tap the ball gently from underneath your finger should get wet and a few drops should run down your hand. It shouldn't pour, but if it doesn't dispense, water toss it right away. Bad water bottles kill rats fast. Rats need the bottle for larger animals and not the one for mice. And it's well worth it to purchase the higher quality bottle. See which one your pet shop uses. For some reason, my pet shop will try to sell you the cheaper bottle, but they use the better one in their own cages. In a weird conversation with the department manager at my pet shop, the fellow handed me a Chinese made crappy bottle for $3.99. When I asked what the store used, he pointed to the American Made Lix-It $4.29 bottle. He continued by telling me that they use the Lix-It because it doesn't leak, is easier to clean and fill, doesn't clog has no chew points on it and tends to last forever. But he insisted that the cheaper bottle was the better choice... (The cheaper bottle, leaks, clogs, can't be cleaned and is going to get chewed up by my rats, I'm not sure why they even carried it, much less why anyone would use it.) I don't know what you folks have available in the UK, but your best local choice is likely what your pet shop uses in their own cages. They have experience and aren't likely to kill their own animals, but I'm sure Isamurat is guiding you correctly if you can find what is being recommended.

Also because your rat is biting and anti-social, I wouldn't introduce a new socialized and friendly rat to him yet. This might very well go very wrong, especially as you are not the alpha yet and you are pretty inexperienced. When I introduced my adult true shoulder rat to my adult part-wild rat both were very dominant rats, but subordinate to me and I kept my hands between them as they circled, postured and lunged at each other. After it was over, about an hour or two, my hands itched, when I looked closely I hand hundreds of tiny pinpricks from my fingers back up to my wrists. If both girls didn't respect my authority and love me, I would have been a bloody mess. In fact, my next door neighbor was Delta Forces just back from Iraq when he tried to grab my part-wild rat, she shredded his hand so badly before he could even drop her that his blood turned a whole towel red. Domestic rats are no where nearly as fierce as wild rat or part-wild rats and don't usually do the flying ball of fangs, claws and fur attack common to their wild counterparts so don't panic. But if a part-wild rat can manage to show respect and contain itself during an introduction your well bred domestic will be fine as long as you are there to supervise and it respects you and loves you as it's alpha.

I'm so glad you realized you weren't getting a big gerbil. When training your rat keep thinking child or dog. If you brought a new puppy home would it still be in a cage with you observing it now? Puppies have sharp teeth too and they can bite worse than rats... But would you really be keeping it locked up slipping it treats? What would you be doing with a new dog? You most likely would be in a fenced in area chasing it, or having it chase you or playing, you would be teaching it it's name and basic commands and you would be trying to make it feel welcome in your home and part of your family. Keep this example in mind when you read immersion.

Best luck.


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## Roxy the Rat (Apr 7, 2013)

I think the reason that they recommend the crappy water bottles is because you go through them much faster and therefore spend more money (hopefully at their stores)

My rats chewed through my old plastic one within a week of me having them. I've now had a glass one for about 6 months and it's been great. So yes, go with the better quality one if you do have to get a new one. It may be more expensive but it saves you money I the long run.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## gotapetrat (Apr 17, 2013)

Thanks both, sorry I was not available to respond sooner. I got another two rats from a pet store simply because I want to get used to having rats before going to a breeder as they seem to me like they will be more mellow and expect better from me. I got them checked out at the vets before letting them meet... from what I can tell they are all happy... because I don't think he considered his cage territory as he was pretty new in there himself. They had a dominance struggle with one... but no blood, they have been playing and the littler ones squeal when the big one seems to groom them... I haven't seen any signs of agression but the big one looked as if he was bruxing when he seen them... as if he had been alone for a long time and finally had some company... or did I believe what I wanted to see? However, from what I can tell.. all has gone pretty well... not seen any violence mainly just what I've read about dominance struggles. I did let them meet and go into their cage and them into his... he got their scent... they ran over the top of the cage... I seen nothing but curiosity and playfulness... so I thought what the heck... if it all goes terribly wrong then I can only blame myself for being an idiot. Though, do you think this is ok? The only concern I have is his size compared to them.. he plays with them but when pinning them down and grooming.... could they get hurt? He does not do it violently though but if I was a kid and a big fat aunt pinned me down it would be a bit of pressure.

Please let me know if I've done anything wrong.. or should be concerned... their power struggle has ended and all seem to know their place.. they even slept as a group together last night for a little while.


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## Rumy91989 (Dec 31, 2012)

It's normal for rats to be pinning/grooming each other no matter what size they are--they know how to do it without hurting each other. How small are the new ones, though? Depending on how young they are it could be dangerous only because they're so fragile.


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## gotapetrat (Apr 17, 2013)

The pet store did not tell my wife how old they were, but if I was guessing they are quite young... maybe closer to two months than one... they are pretty strong I'd say http://s4.hubimg.com/u/176967_f248.jpg they're bigger than the little one is this picture I found and he is about the size of that one. I think even if she was told the age in the pet store it would be with a pinch of salt, the employees are absolutely useless in these shops. It is hard to make out but all three of them are resting at the moment in this photo https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/44845_370838496358795_256766605_n.jpg under the wooden hut.. except big one who can't fit in.


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## gotapetrat (Apr 17, 2013)

I think all will be well from now on, think I did an okay job getting them settled. 



 8) climbed out of the cage by himself... cured his lonliness... perhaps his depression is going to go as he is moving around more and more. Next is to get him to play with me... not bad for a week... I don't think ??


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

It's great news that you got him a friend and they've settled in together now! What I would do, is to get them out of the cage now daily with you and spend some quality time with them both, so you can socialise them together with you. Don't leave them in the cage alone for ages as this will lead them to build their own idea of who's alpha (and it'll be Oliver as he's older). You need to be the top rat in the pack and they need to respect you and take orders from you. Just have them out a lot and play with them!


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