# No baby, No opinion



## MissSix

Every now and then, on social media and in family conversations, I weigh in with my opinion on child behavior and situations where a child is behaving like an absolute monster. A lot of times I get the response of "you obviously don't have kids!" or something similar, essentially stating that because I don't have children of my own I can't voice an opinion on any situation involving kids... even though I work with children, and have a degree in education (K-12). I'm the one that has to deal with poorly behaved children on a day to day basis, which really takes away from a class when I have to stop what I'm doing to redirect these kids. Yet, because I haven't pushed one out of my own barren womb I can't have an opinion on the issue???? 

Kids don't stay kids. They grow into teenagers, and then into adults that everyone else has to deal with. Some parents just seem to ignore that fact, they'd rather let their kid run around acting like a feral animal 24/7 than actually stop them from "having fun". Growing up means learning to control those impulses, not excusing them because "kids will be kids" 

Given the amount of conflict I constantly encounter in my work, and kids that seem to think it's fun to stab a teacher in the leg with a pencil, I frequently think about leaving this field for good.


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## Gribouilli

I sincerely don't know how you do it. Many/most (?) children behave badly nowadays. I always sit as far away as possible when there are kids at the restaurant. Good luck


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## Pixxiies

I don't fault you for voicing your opinion. But then again, I don't have kids so my opinion doesn't matter... right? Heh.

Somewhat related;;; 
Any parent here will think I'm an a**hole for saying this but... whatever. So, you know how when women get pregnant they develop that whole 'mommy brain' thing. The hypothetical syndrome that makes them forget things easily and appear as they've lost about 30% of their brain cells. (I worked at a gynecologist for years and expedience women talking about this). Well, I feel like that syndrome grows and develops for both parents throughout the child's life. All the people that I've known that have become parents in the past couple of years have all become super touchy about certain topics. Anything involving children or their welfare is instantly a hot button, deep and personal issue for them. It's... pretty irrational for the most part. I've seen people react negatively and have their opinions swayed by having children on anything from their favorite colors to more serious political issues. 

My child can do no wrong. My child is a perfect little angel. LOL


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## MissSix

Some days I don't know either. I cling to the thought that I don't have to keep them, and that there are still good kids out there... it can be hard to keep from getting overwhelmed by the bad kids sometimes- especially the ones that are just rotten brats. 

I like working with kids that other people give up on, the kids in bad situations or that just get passed over... but the brats. There are kids that are just being raised to believe the world revolves around them, and heaven forbid anyone point it out- I just hate my thoughts being dismissed because I don't have children of my own. Which 1. not really interested in having kids, and 2. the looooong history of mental illness in my family and my own life... I'm not condemning a child to that.


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## Gribouilli

I'm sooooooo happy to be childfree. Not planning on ever changing my mind on that one.


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## MissSix

Pixxiies said:


> I don't fault you for voicing your opinion. But then again, I don't have kids so my opinion doesn't matter... right? Heh.
> 
> Somewhat related;;;
> Any parent here will think I'm an a**hole for saying this but... whatever. So, you know how when women get pregnant they develop that whole 'mommy brain' thing. The hypothetical syndrome that makes them forget things easily and appear as they've lost about 30% of their brain cells. (I worked at a gynecologist for years and expedience women talking about this). Well, I feel like that syndrome grows and develops for both parents throughout the child's life. All the people that I've known that have become parents in the past couple of years have all become super touchy about certain topics. Anything involving children or their welfare is instantly a hot button, deep and personal issue for them. It's... pretty irrational for the most part. I've seen people react negatively and have their opinions swayed by having children on anything from their favorite colors to more serious political issues.
> 
> My child can do no wrong. My child is a perfect little angel. LOL



I'm so glad my best friend never really had that issue, but yeah, I've heard about that. I think some of it comes from a natural instinct to protect- which I get- but it goes well beyond that sometimes. When I worked in retail I got yelled at by parents if I ever told their children to not climb on displays or mess with the donation boxes.


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## Fraido

Yeah, that's irritating. I've never liked kids. Although, for some reason I want one someday. Thing is, I'm not going to be one of those parents, I won't be afraid to discipline my child, I won't be afraid to make them upset or angry with me. Just because they're children doesn't mean they should be able to do whatever they want. My child will learn very quickly what is right and wrong, and how to behave.


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## artgecko

I work in education too... I teach at a private school and deal with 1st-12th grade. I don't really enjoy working with very young kids or the middle school aged kids, except for a small percentage. I do enjoy working with HS kids because they are mature enough developmentally that you can have a conversation with them and they aren't destructive like MS kids. 

This is my 9th year teaching and I do have many thoughts about not really wanting kids... Having to deal with them all day and seeing the negative side of things and how so much can be out of your control genetically (we have some BAD kids that were basically born that way to otherwise good parents). But a lot can be controlled with good parenting. Our best kids are those with structure, a stable 2-parent home, and discipline. You can really tell when their home life isn't good.. Note, I'm not knocking single-parent homes here (you do what you have to) but you can really tell divorce takes a toll on the kids. 

My husband wants to have a kid.. We met later in life (mid 30's now) so if we are going to have one (naturally) it will have to be soon. I'm on the fence about it. He doesn't work with kids and has some kind of fantasy idea that small kids are naturally good and quiet.... If only he could trade places with me for a day, he might think differently lol

I try not to comment on many kid-related things outside of work. I have young nephews and niece, but kid stuff doesn't come up too often around them. I think standards for expected behavior have changed in society and parents now fear discipline... they have been brainwashed to think it is bad and you have to give your kid everything they want and keep them constantly happy. This combined with parents now taking kids to what used to be adult-only zones (movies, nice restaurants, etc.) makes for some interesting situations. 

I've thought about leaving education too... If I was in public school I'd probably already have left.. Not knowing what my other job prospects would be is what is keeping me in the field. My degrees are in art and ed. so not really applicable to much else.


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## MissSix

Artgecko, I might sound crazy to a lot of folks but I actually love working with middle schoolers. Brats that they can be, I think I juts click better with them... maybe because my sense of humor can be so immature sometimes. But I know I'm a rare breed. 
I've found elementary school kids to be the most destructive and I think sometimes the most violent- aside from a middle schooler pulling a knife one time when I was student teaching, but it was a 3rd grader that stabbed me in the leg. 
I have a lot of sympathy for kids with behavioral problems they cannot easily control... unfortunately it feels like the majority of parents just excuse every single act as "well they are just spirited".

I think some parents have bought into this idea that you have to make every second of a child's growing years happy and magical, and that you have to be their friend. In some ways, it seems like some parents haven't fully matured enough to raise kids, they are looking back on their own lives and thinking "I hated missing dessert! I'm never gonna do that to my kid, they will have ice cream every night!" 

Oh don't get me started on the adult-only places people take children. A friend of mine works in a sex shop and more than one parent has brought their very young child into the store with them. Not to mention the number of times I've read about kids being banned from a place (usually because of destruction of property) and parents crying discrimination.

It's just very frustrating that I have actual education on child development and psychology and I get told to shut up about anything child related because I don't have my own kid.


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## Fraido

MissSix said:


> ...In some ways, it seems like some parents haven't fully matured enough to raise kids...


So many people with kids these days are still kids themselves. *sigh*


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## rebelvig

Child-free and plan to stay that way for all of these reasons!! My fur babies are more than enough for me - they're a handful themselves!

Other peoples' kids are fun sometimes though  My brother has two cuties and they're fun in small doses, but by the time I go home from playing with them, I'm exhausted! I don't know how parents do it full-time.


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## SaberKatt

I relate to this on a spiritual level.

I LOVE kids. I don't have any of my own, but I generally think they're great and enjoy interacting with them. I do occasionally weigh in on social media about behavior, discipline, etc. I don't work in a child related field like you do, but my field of study is similar - animal behavior. There is a surprising (or not so surprising) amount of overlap between animal psychology and child psychology. A lot of learning behavior can be applied interchangeably between animals and humans, and children in particular. My sister studies child psychology, and we often have conversations regarding the similarities and differences between them. 

I understand that behavior science is a relatively new science, and I maintain that science should always be challenged in order for progress to be made. But the argument that "You don't have kids so you don't know" stops all intelligent discourse in its tracks. It honestly baffles me how many parents will look at the science staring them directly in the face, how much evidence there can be telling them that there's a better way, just for them to sniff and say, "Well I turned out fine." Did you, though? 

I know that nobody wants to be told they're doing something wrong for their child, especially something potentially harmful. But like...wouldn't you be interested in what science has to say? When I'm presented with new information about the way I care for my furbabies, I consider it. I look into it, and if the research checks out then I make the necessary changes because I want what is best for them. Adopting a cat doesn't make me an expert in cats. Having a baby doesn't make you an expert in babies. People tell me all the time that the love I feel for my animals is nothing compared to what they feel for their baby, but when someone takes the arrogant stance that they know better because they pushed something out of their uterus I have to wonder about that. It seems like their pride overshadows the well-being of their loved one. 

Also people who think that "No spanking" also means "no discipline". I happen to be anti spanking for various reasons, and when I mention that parents always respond with, "So you think I should just let my kids do whatever they want? Because I know people who do that and those kids have no respect at all!" Yeah, that's super not what I said at all. >_> 

That said, most kids are pretty resilient and no parent should be expected to be perfect. It is equally arrogant of me to believe that my way is the One True Way. I enjoy engaging in behavior debate because it fascinates me. I love it. I don't need to be right. But shutting me down with "You didn't push something out of your uterus, so you're wrong" is not going to get anyone anywhere.


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## Ratlettes

I'm terrified of having kids because what if they become a pedophile or a furry ? Disgusting. I wouldn't know how to control myself


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## Fraido

Ratlettes said:


> I'm terrified of having kids because what if they become a pedophile or a furry ? Disgusting. I wouldn't know how to control myself


Pedophile, bad. Furry, bad? No. That is just judgemental. It is unfortunate that you are scared of having kids because later in their life they may have a fetish, which there is nothing wrong with.


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## Jaguar

Fraido said:


> Pedophile, bad. Furry, bad? No. That is just judgemental. It is unfortunate that you are scared of having kids because later in their life they may have a fetish, which there is nothing wrong with.


I agree, but furry isn't a fetish.


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## Fraido

Every definition of furry that I've ever seen as screamed fetish, put on some animal outfit and go get kinky with other furries.


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## Jaguar

Fraido said:


> Every definition of furry that I've ever seen as screamed fetish, put on some animal outfit and go get kinky with other furries.


That's a common stereotype. Lots of people are just into it for the fursuiting, roleplay, art, etc. it isn't inherently sexual, though a decent chunk of them are into that.


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## Fraido

Well fetish doesn't always have to be sexual either.  I rest my case.. lol.. it is forever a fetish in my eyes.

Though, my point was that it's judgemental to say they're disgusting and such, simply because one doesn't understand it. I also get the feeling that the sexual side of that fandom is the "disgusting" side.


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## Jaguar

That's a discussion for another topic, I think


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## Ratlettes

I'm sorry, I didn't mean the type of furries that dress up and like innocent art, I'm talking about the ones that perform sexual acts on animals and fetishize them. I don't know what to call them but they're extremely f*cked up people please don't defend them. I didn't mean to offend any actual furrys up here if there is, just the animal abusers


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## Jaguar

Ratlettes said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't mean the type of furries that dress up and like innocent art, I'm talking about the ones that perform sexual acts on animals and fetishize them. I don't know what to call them but they're extremely f*cked up people please don't defend them. I didn't mean to offend any actual furrys up here if there is, just the animal abusers


You're thinking beastiality/zoophilia. Very different.


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## Ratlettes

Well this got completely out of topic but I was just saying kids can grow up to be anything despite what the parents teach them plus parenting looks very stressful for me and that after birth depression sounds so terrible, kids are amazing and adorable despite their screaming, destruction, and annoyingness. I just personally don't want to take a chance


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## Ratlettes

Yes that, I'm so sorry!! I read a story of a furry guy who did that to his dog and it just stuck to me. I had no idea that stuff actually happened and I just connected the two together blindly. I'm forever scarred


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## Gribouilli

Ratlettes said:


> Well this got completely out of topic but I was just saying kids can grow up to be anything despite what the parents teach them plus parenting looks very stressful for me and that after birth depression sounds so terrible, kids are amazing and adorable despite their screaming, destruction, and annoyingness. I just personally don't want to take a chance


Having children is a gamble in so many ways, you're right. No one would marry someone they just met 5 mins ago, right? Well, with children it is for life, no divorce possible; and you have no idea if they will turn into someone you will like as a person. I know a few people who chose not to have children, and none have regretted it.


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## Jaguar

If I had a dollar for every time my sister has said to me "you think ___ is hard, try having 3 kids!" I'd have a small fortune.

There's a reason I don't have kids. I don't want to be that mom whom talks about her kids like they're burdens.

(I actually don't want to be a mom at all )

Raising kids is hard, no doubt, but some people seem to think being a parent suddenly gives them superior authoritative powers lol


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## Fu-Inle

Don't get me started on the people who say "you'll change your mind" No I won't. I know many other people say that and change their mind but I'm not one of those people. I'm extremely stubborn and if anything, the more "you'll change your mind" comments I get, the more determined I am to not have kids so I can prove them wrong. So please, continue to tell me that I'll change my mind. I'm just not mother material. I'm not nurturing. I'm not lovey dovey. I'm not touchy feely and I do not talk about feelings. Thats how my parents were and thats how I was raised. Its a cycle I'm going to stop. I can not provide a child with the emotional support they deserve for healthy mental development. Emotional and social neglect in childhood is strongly connected with mental illnesses in teens and adulthood and as someone with mental illnesses I think it wouldn't be fair on the kid.


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## Fraido

Fu-Inle said:


> Don't get me started on the people who say "you'll change your mind" No I won't...


This, exactly this. 

And if I find it nasty when a toddler gets sick and projectile vomits all over the place, I always get told "Oh it's different when it's your own kid!" Yeaahh, no. I can't handle a lot of things motherhood involves. Bleh


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## raindear

I went to the store a while back and bought a boom box. It came with instructions. I bought a toaster. It came with instructions. I had a baby. Um, no instructions. The biggest, most important item in my life and no instructions. None. Parents fly by the seat of their pants, and are sure to make mistakes. I did. My mom did. People, all people have a right to opinions. Until babies come with instructions, non-parents know just about as much about this as parents. We can all observe, read, even child tend hands on. It's a pretty level playing field.


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