# Anywhere up to five pregnant rats?!



## Jess <3 (Jan 23, 2014)

I feel terrible, i never thought i'd be posting in this thread but i think i may have more than one pregnant rat on my hands. Let me explain:

The night that my baby Tyrion passed away (which was 15 days ago) his cagemate started acting weird and attacking the cage base. I have a layer of wire mesh fitted underneath to stop the boys and girls getting together if they do happen to chew through their cage base. I'd been asleep all day since staying up the night before with Tyrion and so that night i was downstairs keeping myself occupied. I last saw them at around 9pm when i fed them their veggies and then again at 4am when i found the girls in the boys cage. I don't know how long they'd been in there but none of them were on heat as far as i'm aware (i do my best to keep track of their cycles). They'd chewed through zip ties holding the wire mesh in place, ripped it away from the cage and then the cage base seemed to have been a joint effort from both sides, the gap they made was too small for a male to fit though but i witnessed one of my females squeezing through it just after i entered the room. 

Of course i separated them immediately until i'd reinforced the cage with new mesh and lots of strong metal twist ties and then just in case i started weighing the rats. I weighed them for a week with not much incline so i stopped but then, after a terrible cake baking session, i realised the scales were not very sensitive to weight change at all and now i'm worried. I think i've noticed weight gain in them all and nipples apear to be showing but could it just be my mini playing tricks on me out of fear? I was sure one of my girls was preggo but now i see no signs and then one of my girls i was confident wasn't preggo is looking a little bit rounder. 

I know i should have acted sooner and asked the vet for any options (though i don't think a morning after pill exists for rats) but my mind was frazzled from losing my heart rat. It's no excuse but now i'm in a mess. I've kept rats for eight years an nothing like this has ever happened to me! I may be freaking out for no reason, i expect none of them will give birth and all this fear would have been for nothing. 

Money wise (as far as new cages and supplies) i'm pretty much covered in my savings (emergency vet bills, probably not as much!). Space wise, that's an issue, my room is tiny and the rat cage i have atm takes up about half of it! 

So, sorry for that huge ramble, i'm not even sure what i expect you guys to say, perhaps some reassurance that i would be able to tell the signs definitely if they were there by now? ? ? ???


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

i would go to your vet and ask for all your girls to be dosed with galastop. This can work even quite late on in the pregnancy and is an anti hormonally driven tumour drug that had the side affect of terminating pregnancy safely and effectively. It would be far better than possibly 5 litters of up to 15 possibly more babies. Your site's could well have come on to heat whilst with the bucks and would be of heat by the morning. 

If you don't want to do that then you could with them once a week and see what the gain is from now. i find theres not much at all in the first week a bit in the second then loads in the third


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

If you caught the female squeezing through, and no one was hanging out in the other's half, you may be pretty lucky as to having caught it in-progress. Has the females' behavior or the male's changed? Just in case I would go get some bins, which can be stacked, one for each female and start poking holes in them. They don't need to be big (think 10 gal).

Since your scale isn't accurate, start taking photos of their belly stretched out.


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## Jess <3 (Jan 23, 2014)

nanashi7 said:


> If you caught the female squeezing through, and no one was hanging out in the other's half, you may be pretty lucky as to having caught it in-progress. Has the females' behavior or the male's changed? Just in case I would go get some bins, which can be stacked, one for each female and start poking holes in them. They don't need to be big (think 10 gal).
> 
> Since your scale isn't accurate, start taking photos of their belly stretched out.


I was planning on making some bin cages, i can get some bins on Tuesday so i'll do that! I have a plastic cage with a wire top that i use when cleaning out which will work for one also. I was thinking of cutting out most of the lid and adding wire mesh for ventilation, but i guess that won't work if they're ontop of one another...One rat was still hanging out beside my male, Khalee. Her nipples are showing a lot but she's a rex so they're always been slightly visible. She's actually just gone off her food. I brought the rats up a mix of veg and some apple but she won't touch it, i'm a little worried about her. 



> I will deffo start taking pictures, i might upload some of them tonight just to see peoples opinions.
> i would go to your vet and ask for all your girls to be dosed with galastop. This can work even quite late on in the pregnancy and is an anti hormonally driven tumour drug that had the side affect of terminating pregnancy safely and effectively. It would be far better than possibly 5 litters of up to 15 possibly more babies. Your site's could well have come on to heat whilst with the bucks and would be of heat by the morning.
> 
> If you don't want to do that then you could with them once a week and see what the gain is from now. i find theres not much at all in the first week a bit in the second then loads in the third


My vet get's a little annoyed when i go in and ask for any sort of medication, even baytril, but i will email him and try to stress the seriousness of this situation. Is there any chance that it could just damage the foetuses and cause deformed babies?! 

I'll start weighing them again from right now, even if the reading isn't too accurate it should give me an idea if they're gaining or maintaining.


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## Jess <3 (Jan 23, 2014)

Oh nanashi7, i forgot to mention. I have noticed some behaviour changes in my girls:

-Nina is suddenly very crazy and when she free ranges she zooms all over the place whereas she always seemed uite laid back for a female before. 
-Khalee preferred not to be handled but very recently i can hold her as much as i want and she'll even lay on her back in my hands. 
-Other than that i've just noticed a lot more squabbling than normal.

As for my male, Casper seems to be acting a little dominant and over grooming his elderly cagemate, although that could just be because Tyrion was always in charge and now he's passed away.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Males can get aggressive post-mating so no signs of that is good.

My pregnant doe wasn't "crazy" unless it came to things she could nest or getting to a good spot to nest. I don't know about squabbles, but I wouldn't necessarily expect them as female rats are more likely to form "aunt" or "sister mom" behaviors.


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## Jess <3 (Jan 23, 2014)

There was no aggression, Casper's still quite new to me but he's really sweet. There wer actually a couple of other behaviour changes that came to mind though, Bonnie is relentless when it comes to escaping the free range area, she always have been. The difference is now when i move her away from the edge of the pen she gives me a warning nip whereas before she's have never done anything like that. 
And i don't know if it's nest building or not since it's a communal effort between all of the girls but they've started pulling all of the fleece in their cage into the centre in a circle with a divot in the middle. It sort of resembles a bird nest. They sleep in it sometimes which is weird for them since they've always slept in a sputnick or hammock. 

But it's good that none of the other behaviour points to pregnancy!!! 

I took pictures of them all but for some reason i can't upload them...


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I don't know if it has been mentioned, by the way, but it would be 21-23 days until they had babies. They usually will BALLOON in the last week leaving no doubt, but definitely in the last three days.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Jess <3 said:


> There was no aggression, Casper's still quite new to me but he's really sweet. There wer actually a couple of other behaviour changes that came to mind though, Bonnie is relentless when it comes to escaping the free range area, she always have been. The difference is now when i move her away from the edge of the pen she gives me a warning nip whereas before she's have never done anything like that.
> And i don't know if it's nest building or not since it's a communal effort between all of the girls but they've started pulling all of the fleece in their cage into the centre in a circle with a divot in the middle. It sort of resembles a bird nest. They sleep in it sometimes which is weird for them since they've always slept in a sputnick or hammock.
> 
> But it's good that none of the other behaviour points to pregnancy!!!
> ...


You may be at your limit. Try an external hosting site like imgur or photobucket.


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## Jess <3 (Jan 23, 2014)

nanashi7 said:


> I don't know if it has been mentioned, by the way, but it would be 21-23 days until they had babies. They usually will BALLOON in the last week leaving no doubt, but definitely in the last three days.


Thanks, i know some basic facts about their gestation and their dietary requirements after giving birth and such just from reading bits here and there, but i'll do some more in depth research. They're just at the beginning of what will be their third week since the event so hopefully it will soon become clear who is and who isn't pregnant. Thanks for all the help!


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## Jess <3 (Jan 23, 2014)

nanashi7 said:


> You may be at your limit. Try an external hosting site like imgur or photobucket.


I just made a photobucket account, this link should work, all five should be there.  

http://s374.photobucket.com/user/jessie-joy/media/pergbon_zps24ae2997.png.html


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Nothing so far screams pregnant to me, except maybe Khalee but it could just be her fur. The hard thing about white bellies is nipples tend to be more easily recognized than colored bellies IMO.


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## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

All of my girls have light colored bellies and really visible nipples, so I don't really trust that as a determining factor in pregnancy. However, I do agree that taking them all for a dose of galastop is probably your best option here. No harm done if they're not pregnant.


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## Hey-Fay (Jul 8, 2013)

I highly agree with Isamu, the Galastop will painlessly and effectively terminate the pregnancy. It won't cause deformities. I would really push your vet about getting it, if all five are actually pregnant (let's hope not though!) that could mean your numbers could skyrocket from the 7 you have now up to 85 babies; this is just a rough estimate of course, this is assuming that all five are knocked up and they all have 17 bubs each. I'm just trying to give you an idea of what _*could*_ happen. This does not mean it *will* happen.

I'll be following this, I wish for the best. Good luck.

EDIT: I forgot to suggest a remedy for separating your cage. Since they chewed through the plastic zip-ties I would try metal zip-ties.


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## Jess <3 (Jan 23, 2014)

Well, i got no reply to my email about the galastop so i rang the vet but only got through to the receptionist who couldn't fit me in since it was 'Spay Day' at the time and the vet is booked up with spay and nueters for most of the week since they're on a special offer. I rang another vet, one i don't really like to deal with, and they said they'd never used galastop for that purpose before and that now it was too late, this was the day before yesterday. If they are pregnant, then it would be the 21 day mark on the 27th. Nobody looks like they'd swallowed a tennis ball so i'm thinking i'm safe but i can't be sure. Thea has started taking everything she can back into her cage with her and bonnie has been pushing all of her fleece and toys and food into one plastic house in their cage. When they stand on their back legs they look a little rounded but nowhere near as big as the rats that come up under 'pregnant rat' in google images....


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Can you post pictures of them standing up?


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## Jess <3 (Jan 23, 2014)

Yes, my camera is charging now, it should be done by free range time so i'll take them then.  I've got a spare cage set up just incase.


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## Hey-Fay (Jul 8, 2013)

Speak with Isamu, send her a message and have her explain galastop. have her send you info and then take that info to your vet and demand to get it. Do not let them cow you into leaving without it.


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## Jess <3 (Jan 23, 2014)

Sorry that these pics are through the cage bars, i had a bit of a camera crisis and only just took these, it's 1am, so i didn't want to be chasing them around my room incase i wake my parents. 

I'm most concerned by Thea's stomach:http://s374.photobucket.com/user/jessie-joy/media/IMG_1582_zpsrloktbvs.jpg.html
Here's bonnie and thea: http://s374.photobucket.com/user/jessie-joy/media/IMG_1583_zpsjkpeedem.jpg.html
And here's sansa and Khalee: http://s374.photobucket.com/user/jessie-joy/media/IMG_1586_zpspi8ffais.jpg.html (Khalee also has a bit of a bump)

I didn't post any of Nina since she's completley flat and was on heat yesterday.


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## Jess <3 (Jan 23, 2014)

Hey-Fay said:


> Speak with Isamu, send her a message and have her explain galastop. have her send you info and then take that info to your vet and demand to get it. Do not let them cow you into leaving without it.


The thing is, if they are preggo then they're due tomorrow anyway :/


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Right now, only Thea and Khalee( Right side?) lock mildly concerning. The good news is, if there is a litter, it would be very small.

Tonight I would separate the two of them into the bins and leave them there until day 23.


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## Jess <3 (Jan 23, 2014)

Yes Khalee was the one on the right, thanks for the advice, they're both in separate cages now. I'm kinda nervous...


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## Jess <3 (Jan 23, 2014)

Well no babies yet. Thea built a pretty big nest and is cleaning her genitals a lot, Khalee on the other hasn't built a nest and just seems kinda peeved to be in a smaller cage, haha! I've checked them both and there's no spotting. Thea's belly is also looking a little bigger today so if anyone had babies i think it will be her but i'll keep Khalee separate up until day 23 anyway just to be safe.


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