# Rats really angry about new additions. Bit my hand, squabbling.



## Finnebon (Jul 15, 2013)

A few days ago we adopted two young girls from our local small pet rescue (I'll make an introduction post for them soon!). Bijou and Aoife don't seem phased at all and don't mind a bit. But Charlie, Mouse, and especially Berki have seemed to have their worlds turned upside down and have been miserable little balls of fluff and rage. The two girls are in a small cage next to my rats so they can smell and see each other. Charlie doesn't mind as much, and only gets fluffly and huffy if he's directly in front of them and the new girls are trying to interact. But Mouse and Berki just sit on a shelf and glare at the girls, and are so fluffy and puffy. Occasionally they'll get really worked up, especially Berki, and fluff up and huff and puff loudly and swipe at the girls with his paws trying to reach to their cage. I worry all this anger is bad? Can this stress hurt them? I'm hoping it's something they have to just work through, but should I remove the girls? Or leave them there and let the others deal with it and just get used to them?

I had pet the girls and had their smell on my hands. I had hoped my familiar smell mixed with their new smell would help ease the transition from strangers to new friends for my guys, but when I opened the cage, as usual, they all tried to run out to play. I put my hand in front of the door to block them from escaping and to let them inspect my hand. Berki sniffed for just a second, and without thinking, latched onto my hand, hard, and used the muscle of his entire body to put more force into it and scratch at me at the same time, and tried to maul me with the fury of a thousand suns. I grabbed him off of me and held him so he couldn't' bite me more, and held him on his back in my palm and he screeched and screamed for a while but calmed down a little and stopped shrieking while I pet him and talked to him. I then put him in the carrier cage the new girls have spent most of their time in, and the smell of them and his anger sent him on the hunt. He threw a fit and fluffed and huffed some more and threw around their litter and their bed box and fleece and newspaper strips dead set on hunting them down since he thought they were inside this carrier still. It makes me scared for our new girls! He eventually calmed down when he realized the girls weren't in there and when his fur went back down to normal, (and I had washed out my bite and scratch wounds) I pet him for a while and he was fine. I understand why he bit me, so I'm not mad at him at all. But what can I do to make these intros easier where no one gets hurt? If he bit one of these little girls that hard, I probably would have had to rush her to emergency to get stitches (or worse). Berki and Charlie have already been neutered when they were young, so that's not any option if it's hormonal driven territorial aggression. Just plain territorial.

When I had let my 5 free range and left the new girls in their carrier box, the angry fluff patrol found them and climbed on top of their box. Again, fluffing, huffing, and puffing, and doing a little war dance of fury in circles and back and forth, glaring down at them. I imagine they would be cursing a lot too if they could talk!

Do I just need more time? Their rage hasn't seemed to have died down at all yet. If they get too huffy, they become irritated with each other and will squabble together so I have to watch them carefully when they start getting too worked up.










Fluffly balls of fury, glaring at the new neighbors.


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## Finnebon (Jul 15, 2013)

My rats are very clean, and Berki has been probably the healthiest out of all of them. But I'm a paranoid person when it comes to health, and this was a big bite and not just little nail scratches. Should I worry about being bitten at all? It wasn't exceedingly deep, since the arae he bit made his teeth slip as he chomped down. So his upper incisors pierced and stuck, but his bottom teeth just tore into my skin in a line as he gripped down.


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## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

You should clean and disinfect the wound. If it becomes infected, or you show flu-like symptoms over the next 10 days or so, I would seek medical aid as it could be Rat Bite Fever.
I have never had boys before, but I thought boys were fine when encountering females? That's what I had heard anyway.


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## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

I've been bitten multiple times, mostly by rats I didn't know. As long as you pulled it open and rinsed it deep with alcohol or peroxide you should be fine. I usually don't cover my bites either but keep the surrounding area coated with a thin layer of antibiotic ointment (not in the cut, just around the edges). 

These are boys that have never been around girls? Maybe they just don't know what to think and perhaps the smell has got their hormones all out of whack :/ Have you tried swapping some bedding between the two cages? I've only ever done same sex introductions, so I'm afraid I don't have much to offer as far as advice


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

I've always treated rat bites by running under a tap then prutting a blob of antisceptic cream on it. I've done fine so far. 

In terms of the boys aggression, it won't be helping having there cages next door. This often winds boys up add there drive is to settle the hierarchy and they can't through thebars so they posture and huff. normally if girls were near boys the boys would be fascinated however it seems like the neutering has put your lads of girls. How long has it been since they were done? 

For now i would move the girls to the other side of the room or in another room until your ready for intros


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## Finnebon (Jul 15, 2013)

The enter button on my keyboard decided to stop working today, so forgive me for long paragraphs instead of breaking them up. I'm going to try html line breaks and I hope that works! Sorry if it ends up just being a giant paragraph though. <br /> <br/> For the bite, I rinsed it with hot water and used antibacterial soap. I tried scratching with my nail into the cut with the soap to kind of dig it into the cut as much as possible. I washed twice, while scratching, and rinsed for a while. I then held a paper towel over it until it stopped bleeding, then washed again with the soap. I hope I got it cleaned out enough. I feel like I'm getting a cold lately, so if I end up getting sick, I'm going to be very paranoid that it's associated with the bite!  <br /> <br/> As for the boys, these are the two neutered boys from my family of 5, Bijou's litter. They were neutered over a year ago, last November if I remember correctly. These boys have been around girls all their life and have lived with their mom and sisters since they were neutered. Berki and Mouse have always acted as the "Defenders" of the cage and despite being the spookiest of the family, they are also the bravest and try to defend the cage from scary things, including two little baby girls! I've moved the girls away from sight of the others across the room for now. <br /> <br> I have switched them into each other's cages a few times now. The little girls spent the first couple days in the carrier cage, so it's full of their smell. I've put each rat into the carrier, and the girls into my small cage and let them all smell each other. The only rat that has no problems with these girls is Bijou, and her only issue with them, is Mochi gets so excited to see her, she immediately starts pouncing on her and trying to play. The other rats get grumpy, and I haven't even let Berki near the girls yet.. But they've all had cage swaps and been forced to be surrounded by each other's smells. I've put a dirty fleece into the main cage also. Whenever I put the grumpy rats in the girl's carrier, they get all huffed up and fluffy and angry at the smells and kind of sniff around. They calm down eventually, but they stay grumped up and fluffy for a while. <br /> <br/> How will I know when I'm "ready" for intros? I'd like to start soon-ish, but there's no way I can safely do it now. I just need to know how to calm these 3 down so they will be calm enough to meet the two new girls face to face without me worrying that they'll hurt them.


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## Finnebon (Jul 15, 2013)

I should clarify, when I said I put the rats in each other's cages, I mean it's when the other rats aren't there. So they just will change places, not able to be face to face in the same cage. Just cage swapped.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

I'm really not a fan of cage swaps and putting the cages close. If you think of out from a rats point of view they can smell intruders bit no matter how hard they look or try they can't get to them to sort out who's boss. This tends to bother now dominant rats especially boys even more. 

personally i would hang fire on this method for a week moving the cages well apart or in a different room and then try a carrier style intro when they have calmed down. Otherwise you could be waiting for weeks for them to get used to each others smell if not months


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## Adeliek (Jul 28, 2014)

I own an aggressive rat, he's perfectly friendly to humans but the presence of other rats sends him into a frenzy. I tried all kinds of introductions with him and nothing ever worked, one introduction session led to a bite that put me in hospital for three days. I'm now keeping him as a lone rat and he seems to be doing perfectly fine, he gets extra attention from me but he's perfectly happy living by himself. Rats are so individual and that although most rat introductions are successful sometimes you get a rat that knows exactly what he wants. Your little man may be perfectly happy with his current rattie friends and maybe he will never take to newcomers. That said I would recommend trying the carrier method rather than a slow introduction. I got bitten separating a fight (like you it was entirely my own fault so I wasn't mad) but the thought that it could have been one of my rats and not me was the last straw for me, I don't think it's worth the risk.


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## Finnebon (Jul 15, 2013)

Isamurat, I would really love to try the carrier method since it makes a lot of sense, but with my one boy having such bloodlust for the new girls, I'm afraid to let him anywhere near them. Tonight, I held him and let one girl sniff around him, and he immediately flew into a rage and had fluffed fur, tense muscles, and when I went to lift him and put him away to calm down, he tensed even more and threw a fit and screamed a bit, I was honestly afraid of being bitten again if I hadn't moved fast enough to let him go into the cage. 

Tonight I've taken the girls and put them in their carrier box and out of rage of the 5. The 5 are free ranging in the room now and I left the new girl's cage open for them to explore. When Berki got inside, he spent a few minutes fluffed and huffing around the cage angrily looking for them. He's calmed down, but the other two "defenders" got fluffed up too while sniffing around the cage. I feel if I let them together, even in neutral space, they will immediately attack the girls. What else can I do? I've hoped that getting used to their smell first might help make them calmer when meeting face to face. They've been out for at least 30 minutes now and no longer are fluffy while exploring the girl's cage which is good at least.

Adeliek, that sounds horrible! What happend with the bite that put you in the hospital for 3 days??? Did it get infected or give you blood poisoning? Or did he bite in a veign area? I'm very curious if you don't mind sharing. Luckily mine seems ok for now. Hopefully it won't turn into anything nasty. I've heard that some rare rats are suited only for keeping company with themselves or are accepting of only other rats that they've grown up with (like my Berki), but I'm hoping he is just being cranky and will get over it. He was separated with his brother from his mom and sisters before he was 5 weeks old, and then didn't meet them again until after he was neutered at about 4 months old. So we had to do introdutions with the girls again 2 weeks after their surgery. His sister Mouse was the one who was terrified of the boys and had very strange physical reactions when they came near her (looked very much like dramatic, theatrical gagging). But it's entirely different this time.

I just wish I knew what to do! It would be my dream to have all 7 rats share a double critter nation when the two older boys pass on, but it's not looking good now.


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## Adeliek (Jul 28, 2014)

I ended up with cellulitis of my whole left arm, it's a soft tissue infection. When he bit me some kind of bacteria got into the wound and caused a bad reaction. My hand was swollen beyond recognition, so I needed intravenous antibiotics. Absolute nightmare! It was probably due to how deep the wound was and any animal bite could have caused a similar reaction. I really hope you find a solution but he sounds exactly like my Benny and after what he did to my hand I'm too cautious to try any more introductions, he does seem happy. Hopefully you'll find a solution!


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## Finnebon (Jul 15, 2013)

That sounds terrible! I'm glad you're better now. My hand was slightly swollen in the local area of the wound just a bit for the first day and a half, but it's fine now, not even any redness so I think it'll be ok. Luckily his teeth slipped while he bit down so it ended up being a gash in the skin with lots of little scratches from his claws attacking and kicking, and not a deep gouge that reached muscle or anything. I'm still just glad one of the new girls didn't get it instead of me!

I hope we can find a solution too. I'm determined to try my hardest as long as it's making some progress and everyone is still safe from serious harm. Maybe once the girls are a little older and start smelly like sexy adult lady rats, he'll calm down. Though neither of his two sisters are spayed, and his mother just got spayed earlier this month and he's never acted interested at all in them. The next time I allow any interaction, I will do it in the tub filled with just a little warm water to get their feet wet. This should hopefully be a good distraction and keep him from being too aggressive if he's feeling nervous about the water. I just feel bad for the new girls having to be in the water too and feeling scared from being wet. Maybe tonight I'll try the tub, but we'll see! I'll post results when I do.


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## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

Yikes.


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