# URGENT!!!!! Please help! Choke? Respiratory? Inept vet?



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

I have a 1 year old black hooded fancy female named Bean. She has always had good heath over all, never any problems until now.

Last night, we discovered a greenish tinged mucus-like substance dripping from Beans mouth. It was accompanied by gagging and lethargy. No other discharge.

We concluded that it was probably a choke. As rare as they are, all the symptoms lined up. We took her to the vet fist thing this morning and dropped $200 to hear that vet diagnose her with respiratory (phenomia to be precise)

She has seemingly NONE of the typical symptoms of RRC except lethargy and a little wheezing through the stethoscope. We asked if she could be treated for a choke and the vet said that she did not need it and a treatment for a choke would run about $500 dollars.

Does this seem normal? I cannot tell if she is swallowing when I give her food/water. I have been only offering her Ferretvite (a soft, toothpaste-like goo for small animals packed with vitamins) and water. She is refusing the water and when I offered her the Ferretvite mixed with some baytril/doxy she licked up most of it and then had a huge convulsion and spit out a small puddle of what looked like heavy whipping cream (a white-ish tan slightly thick liquid) She is over-all getting more lethargic and seems to be very uncomfortable.

The vet did take an X-ray and showed us the picture. she pointed out Beans lungs and said it was obvious she had RRC because of the color of her lungs. (They both looked a uniform black color to me and my husband, but she said that there was gray mixed in which meant RRC) I have never seen an X-ray before, so I am no expert, but it seemed like weak proof of RRC.

She is resting in quarantine and on a Doxy/bayril regiment. As a precaution, we have put our other rats on baytril as they have had constant contact with her since last night.

My Questions:
What is wrong with my poor baby! Is it a choke? RRC? Inept vet?
What dosage should she be on? she weighs .67 LB. and is getting a baytril/doxy treatment.
What dosage should I give my other rats? If I can get a dosage number of Baytril only for a .67 lb rat I can work out the math for the other rats. My vet gave me a dosage but she gave a complicated suspension recipe and I could not get a clear number. 
Do any of you know of a good rat vet in the Hampton roads area of Virginia? This is the third vet I have gone through that I have not been impressed with. 

PLEASE HELP US!!!!!!!


----------



## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

Nope, that sounds like pneumonia to me, with the X-rays and mucous etc. The baytril and doxy sounds good too. 

The dose for baytril is five mg/lb usually. So shed need .67x5, or 3.5 mg. If you give me the mg/ml of the baytril, I can tell you the dose, as baytril can be in different concentrations.

Doxy is 2.5-5 mg/lb but I use 2.5 personally due to gastrointestinal issues. So she would need .67x 2.5, or 1.7mg. Same as baytril I need the mg/ml on the bottle.

Also, has this rat been in the same house as your others? If so, put her back with her friends because once QT is broken by sharing airspace, separating is pointless and stressful to the rat. If this rat has never been in your house though keep her separated.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Choke should only last hours at most so if she is continuing with her symptoms you can rule that out ($500 choke treatment? What the heck is that?). Pneumonia does sadly seem likely, especially with the mucous. You said it was dripping from her mouth not coming from her nose? There may be something els3e as well, an infection in her mouth.

What is RRC stand for? 

Pneumonia would appear white on an x-ray

http://www.brooksidepress.org/Products/OBGYN_101/MyDocuments4/Xray/Chest/Pneumonia.htm


Normal x-ray
http://www.brooksidepress.org/Products/OBGYN_101/MyDocuments4/Xray/Chest/ChestXray.htm


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Your other rats shouldn't be treated unless they show symptoms of illness...it can reduce the eficacy of the baytril later on when they really do need it, and also they shouldn't be separated if being with their cagemates makes them more relaxed and happy.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

BLESS YOU ALL A THOUSAND TIMES!!!!!!!! Thank you so much for the input!

Wow, I never would have guessed it was RRC (Rodent Respiratory Complex, according to my vet and reading it basically means anything and everything that can go wrong with a rodents respiratory system) Thank you for reassuring me. It makes me feel better about the $200 I spent, I thought I had once again lost a huge chunk of cash on absolutely nothing. I probably will not be returning to that vet simply due to the cost. $500 for knocking her out and putting a tube down her throat does seen a little crazy. I took one of my other rats into a different vets office and they wanted close to $1000 to remove a small benign tumor. Are rat vets normally so expensive?

Thank you for the pictures of the X-rays! They were very helpful. It did not look to me as if she had Pneumonia, her X-ray looked like the normal picture. The part that the vet pointed out as the fluid looked the the pulmonary artery in the normal human X-ray.

The green mucus was not coming from her nose, but several hours after returning from the vet I noticed that she was getting gunk all over her snout. I can't tell if she just wiped it from mouth to her nose or if it is now coming out of her sinuses. Is there anyway for me to tell if she has an oral infection? or do I need a vet (lord help me if I do!)?

Another question: If she pulls through, do I need to keep her on Baytril for the rest of her life? I read that taking them completely off antibiotics can cause a severe relapse.

As for my other rats: she was with them before but I am afraid she might get pestered to death by her cage mates (They are all her age or a little younger and HYPER) I did notice that one of her brothers (All my males are fixed!) has had poryphin around his eyes for a week or so, but I thought I was just stress (He gets poryphin around the eyes at the drop of a hat. He is very high stress. He has had it before and it always clears up on its own without any other symptoms) I have been hearing sneezing as well, but not much more than usual. What is the normal amount of sneezing for a rat? Should I keep them on baytril? I have already given them both doses for the day, but nothing more.

Thank you so much for the dosage info as well! It looks like the vet pretty much gave me the same dosage. 
The baytril is in pill form. I crush the pill throughly and mix it with baby food or Ferretvite and they go bonkers for it. 
The Doxy is a suspension and is 10mg/ml and I was advised to dose 1.5 twice a day along with 3 mg baytril.

I will keep all of you updated and any more help would be GREATLY appreciated! I would never know how to thank you if you stuck with me through this. I felt very alone and scarred about this whole thing, now I just feel scared. Thank you for your concern! You all are awesome!


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

They are not normally so expensive, holy cow. The most I've paid at my vet is 100, that was for a major, invasive surgery AND pain meds. (spay) I paid 97 for two rats to get URI treatments, and then I paid another 70 ish for my boy to get a pair of cysts removed. (delicate surgery, right by his genitals) My vet is very good at what he does and my rats get the best possible care when they are there. They go out of the way to help, I've had my babies spend extra nights there before surgery because I couldn't get them there in the morning because of school. I'd look for a different vet if I were you, it shouldn't be SO much money. It's expensive, yes, and could run upward of a couple hundred but a thousand for tumor removal is over the top.

She does, I'm afraid, sound like a vet is the best bet.. This is going to sound odd but could we maybe get a photo of her and the "goo" coming from her? It's possible we could pinpoint where it's originating..maybe get some clue as to what it is.

Good luck, I hope the little one is okay.


----------



## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

200 for a vet visit, baytril and doxy for multiple rats, and an Xray is not unreasonable. 500 for anesthesia and whatever to get the stuff out of the throat is crazy though, as is the 1000 benign tumor removal. Ve prices vary wildly across the country but even in the same town. I would try to get a recommendation from someone here or on another at forum, list, etc (the association of exotic mammal veterinarians is a good place to look) to see if anyone has more reasonably priced surgeries that is also GOOD.

Kinsey, what do you mean a vet is the best vet? She/he took her there, and got proper meds.

PS in the future if you do come across choking, so long as the rat iis still able to breathe, you should just let them work it out.

My thought with the green mucuous was that it was being coughed up. A pic would help though.

Baytril for the rest of the life depends. If a rat is cured with treatment you don't want to keep them on meds. In severe respiratory issues, I'd probably want a month if the baytril.

I'm not sure what's the best choice for your other rats now.

Also, I'd try the rats together, see how they are, just because they can get so depressed by themselves.


----------



## ratfan06 (Dec 31, 2010)

The thing that leads to a severe relapse, that people often do, is taking them off the meds too early. People often take them off the meds once they seem okay. Even if she seems perefectly fine and back to normal in a week or two, keep her on the meds the full month. Having to be on meds for life, (although it can be the case), is fairly uncommon and shouldn't be done unnecessarily.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

Morning update: Bean is the same. I found her drinking on her own this AM which is good, but getting her to take her meds was a nightmare. The syringe does not do a lot because she has the tiniest little mouth you have ever seen. To get the syringe in, you basically have to pry her mouth open to the point that you get get the syringe between her incisors. Needless to say, she is not co-operating. It also seems she has given up eating. I have had rats do this before, but they would almost ALWAYS go for a little ferretvie, and if they didn't, I would slip a little through the corner of their mouth and they would have to lick at and ingest a tiny bit. This was normally enough to keep them alive until they regained their appetites. Any suggestions on how to get her eating/taking meds again? Or do I just need to perceiver and be willing to spend an hour trying to get them down like this morning? I will if I have to, it is not fun for either of us, but my baby is worth a few trials. 

I will post a picture as soon as my husband is available to snap one and upload it, probably in about an hour or two! It looks like the mucus has changed to more of a poryphin-like goop, it is not as green as it was but it is still vey slick feeling when on your fingers and drys into a cement like substance.

WOW! $100 for an invasive surgery? It cost nearly that much to to cover the office visit yesterday (that was just to SEE the vet for a total of about 2 minutes. Everything else, procedures, tests, X-rays and meds were at an additional cost.) I would love to find another/ cheaper vet! So far, no luck though. All the exotic vets in my area cost at least $50 for the office visit, and an exorbitant rate for the rest. There are some cat and dog clinics in the area that are cheaper, but even if the vet is familiar with rats, they do not have the equipment to treat. I want to go to your vet Kinsey! I would feel much better about caring for them if I had a good, affordable vet to take them to if needed. 

We might to going south into North Carolina to see if There are any good exotic vets there that we could afford. My husband grew up there and they had a great, affordable vet for their dogs. maybe a good rat vet is lurking somewhere down there as well, waiting to be found.

The $200 we paid yesterday only covered the office visit, x-ray and two weeks of Doxy. We already had the baytril on hand for Bean and all the others. Thats another question I have: I only got Two weeks worth of Doxy; do I need more? If I need to keep her on it for a month I will need double what the vet recommended. I paid $50 for the doxy I got, I might be able to get it cheaper form a friend of mine who is a horse vet. She got the bayril for me and only charged what she paid for it as a favor. If I do need more, I need to contact her right away! It normally takes a little while to come in.

Thank you for the advice on choking as well. I did give her 12 hours to work it out (if she even had anything caught at all) before I took her in. I have treated chokes in horses before and you are only supposed to give about 1 hour to let them work it out before a vet visit is needed. Horses can't usually work it out themselves though, and they are at great risk of their esophagus bursting without help.

I think I am going to keep the others on baytril for now. I am too paranoid about there symptoms now to skip. If they ever do come down with an honest-to-goodness Repertory infection, would baytril still work at all? Or do I need to get something stronger?

Once again, thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your help. I will keep you posted and put a picture up as soon as I have one.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

I got the pictures, but I cannot upload because it says the file size is too big.

Here is a link to my photobucket. The pictures are all at the top, please excuse all the costume pictures! I used to use my photobucket as an online portfolio.

http://s14.photobucket.com/home/Homeschooldiva


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Hmm, to me the mucus looks like it's coming from her mouth and being groomed onto her nose.. (from the direction the fur on her nose is)

It's good to hear she's drinking..you could try to supplement her with a few electrolytes to help keep her going if you want to, offer her some pedialyte instead of water. It'll keep her hydrated and has electrolytes in it. As for getting her to eat, have you tried oatmeal or baby food? Basically, if you can get her to eat something, give it to her. If it's something you can hide meds in, even better, and do that and see if you can get at least one or two doses down that way. I've forced my rats to take meds before. It's not fun. I end up wrapping them in a towel and pinning them to my bed and then shooting it in the corner of thier mouth. (like worming a horse, lol)

My vet's awesome, I can't decide whether I just got really lucky or we have something different with our economy that makes it less money up here. Our office fee is 36 per rat, then additional for meds/other procedures. (not minor stuff..I had them test a lump for free, but bigger stuff like X-rays.) It sounds like it might be worth it to look in carolina, good vets are special. I hope you can find one who's less expensive.

For rats chokes are less of a deal than horses, and usually they can work it out. It's always best to be safe though.

Smesyna- I said best BET.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

WOW, your amazing Kinsey. I never thought to look at the direction of her fur as an indication where the discharge was coming from. Is it good that it is not coming from her nose? She has been wiping her snout a lot lately; she has always had impeccable hygiene and I think the dried gunk all over her face is driving her crazy. I have been trying to get it off using a warm wet cloth but it is hard since it is very dry and worked into her fur and she does not want to hold still. She probably thinks I am trying to get more meds down her throat.

I have tried giving her her normal lab blocks crushed and soaked in apple juice, as well as Carrot flavored baby food and some mushed up bananas. I have tied feeding it to her myself and them leaving it in the cage for as long as it is fresh to see if wants it at a later time. I did see her picking at the baby food a little wile ago, but it does not look like she ate is as much as sniffed it. She has never been a big oatmeal fanatic either. I sometimes give it to everyone as an extra source of fiber, but, despite the fact she is not picky, she never took to it. can I try adding honey to sweeten it? I have tried juice before and she was still a little iffy. 

I am not familiar with pedialyte. Is it something just for pets? Or can I get it at a grocery store? I will pick some up later today when I am out, anything to get Bean to eat/drink!

I noticed today that she is 'smacking her lips' a lot. she is not bruxing, but making the sound that all my rats make when I give them ferretvite. Or like we humans do when we eat something soft like yogurt. She has been doing it off and on for the last few hours.

I will try the towel tonight with my husband. since I need two hands to pry her mouth open and give the drug, I will need his hands to hold her! Sounds like you know your horses. I manage a stable in my area and worming horses is an all to familiar chore. I got my back thrown out by a horse that did not want his Ivermectin once. OUCH! At least I don't have to worry about that with Bean 

I found a good looking vet about an hour and a half from here in NC. I am going to call them tomorrow to find out if they treat rats. They seem to be primarily a cat/dog vet, but they accept other species. The Head vet there has a list of recommendations as long as my arm and my husband raves about her. Sounds like she does not charge an arm and a leg either, so heres to hoping she knows how, and is able treat rats!

Please tell your vet that he/she has a big fan in VA! I have never heard of such good, affordable vet services, especially for rats. Even the horse vet here is crazy expensive. One of the boarders at my stable took her horse to a vet in Lynchburg to get a life-saving experimental hoof surgery and she has had to take an equity out on her house to pay the bills. NOT COOL! 

I will let you know how she does tonight with the meds. God Bless you!

P.S. Stacy, your hammocks are ADORABLE!


----------



## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

Kinsey, that was a typo. I still don't get why you think she needs to see a vet again?


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Smesyna- It was before I read that they had ABs, which I thought she needed. I don't think she does for now, they seem to be doing the best they can. 

As for the fur thing, it was a wild guess from the way it sticks up on the top of her nose, like it would if she had run her paws over it. I also was looking at how the fluid was on her neck/chest area. It is unlikely that fluid from her nose would be in such quantity to get there, or to run over the mouth..she would have probably licked it up, like little kids and boogers. (ew!) You could also try really cleaning her face, then watching her, checking often. It's possible you could pinpoint the origin of the goo before she spreads it all over the place.

Go ahead and try the honey, sugar's not the best for rats, but if she won't eat, then it's a good idea to try it. Honey also has electrolytes in it, which are good for ill animals.

Pedialyte is inexpensive and you can get it at a drug store, it's sold for human babies, to prevent them from dehydrating when they get diaharia. (Cannot spell that) If you want you can get flavored, but I'd use unflavored for now, while she's willing to drink plain water. If she ends up refusing plain water, then the flavored pedialyte can encourage her to drink.

The smacking is making me unsure about the origin of the fluid, because she may be doing that to get it off her face. Try what I said above, about cleaning her up and watching her.


I've had my share of meds and wormer with horses for sure. We have a very secure stall, and it seems like everyone and thier uncle uses it when a horse gets sick. There's nothing to get hurt on, so they can't pull tubes out, etc.  That also means I have to give the meds..ever had to put fluid into a tube so it shot out a horse's eye? they do not like it much, and even the calmest horses go berserk. It makes me happy rats are small, at least they can be wrapped up and you aren't stuck holding flimsy rope while a thousand pounds of confused animal plunges around.

I hope you can get a good vet, it sounds like the one you mentioned is promising. I hear you on the horse vet pricing..dang, it is expensive. I've had my share of that, too. Colic, wounds, you name it, my horse has probably done it at some point. That or a friend's horse. (coming out an escape door on a trailer was a fun one..)


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

It looks like a terrible choke, because the majority of the mess is on her chin, with it coming from her lungs/nose it would be much higher up and not soo wet. 

As for medicating your gal you want to slip the syringe into the side of her mouth behind her incisors at a 45 degree angle. its relatively easy then.


----------



## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

Kinsey: Okay, I was really confused haha.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

THANK YOU JESUS!!!!! For the first time, a good report! Bean is still the same, but with the help of my amazing husband, we got every last drop of meds in! She still put of quite a fight, but I felt much better about the quantity we successfully put in her. It seemed before like a good third of it ended up on Bean, the floor or us. I was able to use the syringe, but I still had to do some prying since her mouth is so small. I wish I had a picture of the look on her face when we got it in, talk about a ticked off rat.
She also ate about half a teaspoon of carrot baby food and drank a good bit of water! We had her out on the couch for about an hour and she just snoozed zombie-like in my lap for most of the time, but after a few minutes she stretched her wobbly legs a bit, and to my surprise, made quite an athletic jump to the back of the sofa! I grabbed her immediately to steady her and then kept an eagle eye on her for the rest of the time to make sure she did not over-excert herself. She did well though, and we tucked her in a few minutes ago. She still looks pretty bad (and REALLY mad), but at least my husband and I are encouraged all the more to help her now. We were pretty discouraged about the vet and and the medicine administration.

I am going to be picking up the pedialyte tomorrow, with a little luck and prayer, she will drink and slowly go on the upswing.

Sounds like your horse is as accident prone as mine (or the ones I take care of anyway). I am thankful for rats tiny size as well. sometimes I wonder why I risk my neck on the end of the lead line. Then I remember my love of animals 
I still am a lot more carful than I used to be though. You don't mess with a 1200 pound spooky beast. The escape door sounds terrifying. I am afraid to go anywhere in a horse trailer while it is loaded, I have heard too many stories.... Thank God my assistant is fearless and can help with the chores I am too chicken for.

I will update again in the morning. Dear Lord, please be with my baby tonight, and heal her throughly!


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

It's good that she's moving and responsive/feeling well enough to BE mad. And that she ate the baby food. Eating and drinking is always a good sign, and a sign that they are improving. She needs the energy.

Keep giving her attention and love..you'd be surprised how much it helps. I do this with all of my sick animals..had a chicken who was on her deathbed come out of shock and then slowly begin to drink pedialyte after a couple of hours of being on my lap. She's still alive, none the worse for wear, except for having a partly slitted eyelid and her deformed beak. (birth defect)

Escape door was terrifying.. I was waiting to load my horse after a ride, someone else took their appy mare in and all of a sudden she came flying out the escape door. She ended up stuck with her front end hanging out, kicking the side of the trailer, and then got a hind leg stuck. She finally got loose after what seemed like forever but was probably only a few seconds. I'm glad she was skinny- she had a sore leg and a few scrapes but was fine. My horse is the type who will whirl around and charge at whatever scares him..it's like he thinks he can fight with it. Then he rears and kicks at it and if whatever it is happens to be human, they have to duck and cover behind something until he remembers he's not a murderer. He's getting better about attacking people (we used to not be able to lunge him because he'd charge headlong at me) and now if he comes at me I can make threatening face and he'll stop, but it's still stressful when he's upset.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

As I sit here typing this, little Bean is sitting in her cage GROOMING HERSELF! I have not seen her groom since this whole thing started (except for trying to clear her face) Even her discharge looks better, not nearly has heavy and sticky. She ate some Ferretvie this morning and even nibbled at some baby food before gulping down a good bit of water!!!!!! I could not be happier with the progress she has made, despite the fact that she is still a very sick rat.

Question: Do I need to get more Doxy? I only have 2 weeks worth and I am afraid I might need closer to a months supply until she is well. No relapses allowed!!! I am good on baytril for a LONG time. I have a bottle of 100 tablets and they have a long shelf life.

I noticed that Bean is also a bit Wobbly. She walks normally for a few steps and then topples a bit as if someone gave her a firm shove from the side. She does not appear to have a head tilt, though sometimes when she is sleeping her head will fall to one side and just hang there. Could she have a small inner ear infection?

I am glad your chicken is well again Kinsey! Though it may -like rats- seem unusual to treat them like pets, chickens can be great for company! You seem to really have a way with animals.

trailer door O_O
That is beyond scary. Life is too short for horses to be scared and people to be hurt. I am glad the horse is OK, its amazing that he is! I wold think at least one moderate to serious leg injury would have resulted from that. 
Your horse sounds like a horse that we used to have, though ours was an ex-racer off the track. She was a TB mare, and as crazy as they come. She used to rush me when I went to the pasture to bring her in and then I would have to fight her all the way back to the barn to keep form getting crushed/kicked/bitten. Her owner adored her though, despite the bruises he got from the bites. :/
What kind of horse do you have? 

Bean is about to get her meds and morning dose of love (i.e. playtime/laptime on the sofa with mom and dad)! Then, off to get pedialyte!


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

It's probably good to get more doxy, since you don't know when her symptoms will subside and the general consensus is to go one week after symptoms are gone.

She does sound like she is improving very quickly! Eating, gooming, drinking, etc are all really good signs..you're past the "human-baby" stage,as I usually call it, where they won't do ANYTTHING without you feeding it to them/doing it for them.

It's possible she does, but she may just be feeling off still. Either way, antibiotics would fix an ear infection, so you are already doing the right thing.

Chickens are great, I have 5 of them. My roosters are always super sweet lap-pets, and one of my hens likes TV (the one who got hurt). Sadly, I lost 3 birds to a ****, including my favorite hen and rooster, in january right before my birthday, so I'm still working out some issues with the newer birds mixing with the older bird, but we'll get there eventually.

My horse is usually very sweet, people are always surprised when he acts up, they seem to think he's bomb-proof, which hes not. He is a QH cross, either to a saddlebred or a thoroughbred. I'm fairly certain he's a Saddlebred though, from the way he moves and carries himself, especially when he gets upset. He's also either proud cut or his testicals never dropped..there's no way this horse is gelded. There just isn't. I tend to rule that out when he breeds mares no matter how you try to prevent it, and actually succeeds in doing everything except getting them pregnant. We've mostly given up on keeping him calm around mares..my friends have mares who go into heat when they see him, so it's kind of tough to ride him when the mares are around. He's a good boy though, mostly.. I have a thread in Other Animal Mischeif that links to a video of him.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

Sorry about the lack of updates today; I have been crazy busy trying to catch up with all my house work that was forgotten while I was caring for my babies!

I am shocked and happy to report that Bean is running around like a mad rat on the sofa with us as I type this! She is HYPER! She just ran up my husbands sweater and was nipping at his beard. then she promptly peed on him before running up my pant leg. 
I can't believe it!!!!!
I am going to finish out at least two weeks of the meds so to be sure it is gone. nearly all of her symptoms are gone though, she has been eating LOTS and drinking a good bit as well. I called in some more Doxy today, I am hopping to get it very soon 

One thing that I did notice that was odd is the fact that she is now a meat grinder on legs. She has never been much of a chewer before, but she is nipping/bitting/shredding everything in her path now. She is not acting aggressive or irritable, but more like a small child exploring his surrounding by putting everything in his mouth. Is that normal during respiratory? Is here brain addled?

Her discharge is nearly cleared up as well. She still has a bit dried on her chin, but the rest is gone and she seems to be producing very little, if any at all.

For the first time I am feeling truly optimistic, but I still need help and guidance, I am SO SCARED she is going to relapse!

That is so sad about your chickens and the ****! How horrible to have to deal with. I am so sorry, but I am glad to hear you still have such great pets. integration can be such a pain, I am sorry you are having issues with the birds. I wish I could help, but I don't know much about chickens! I am pretty good with rat and horse introductions though!

I LOVE Quarter horses! I would not mind having one someday. As it is, I have too many horses to take care of without owning one myself. Is your horse sterling? I looked for the vid and could not find it, but I found pictures of a beautiful gray! I am assuming that was him. Was that you jumping?


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

If she's on the upswing, hopefully she stays there. Keep doing everything how you are. Don't stress over a relapse, it sounds like she's getting better, not worse, and if it happens, you can handle it then.

Not sure about the grinder thing..maybe she's just hungry from not eating for so long. I would be.

Chickens are a pain to integrate..  They peck at each other and fight, and I have some exotic birds, who are very prone to brain injuries and plucking, and I am terrified that Victoria will get hurt again, so I am extra careful. I don't know if the poor thing could survive a second mauling like the first. She was the bird who almost died, she was attacked by another one of my chickens. We've got one of the agressive birds in a special cage in the coop, where she can see but not hurt the other birds. She's been there for around a month. I will be attempting to re-intro her soon, hopefully with better luck, and then my rhode island will go into the special isolation pen. Wait another month and hopefully, everything will be okay with them after that. Otherwise, I may build another coop for the nasty birds.

That's the video I was talking about.  It's more of a slide show. Yes, that's me jumping, those photos are from an eventing rally last summer. We DQed in show jumping because of some spooking issues, but still had fun, and I got a 42 in dressage and a perfect round in cross country. No awards or ribbons, but great photos! Quarter horses are really cool horses, they always seem so calm and gentle. If only Sterling had picked up on that trait. xD Kidding, he usually is decent.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

Morning update: Bean suspended herself from the door of her cage this morning like one of those windshield suction cup animals this morning. I have never seen a rat more eager to see me! Perhaps she was eager for her breakfast. I left PLENTY of food with her last night (Her normal lab blocks and a tiny bit of seed mix, carrot baby food, oatmeal and a nice plump prune) but I think all she wanted was Ferretvite and the carrot oatmeal. She still seems a little picky about hard foods, though, she did scarf down a cracker last night with delight. I just gave her her morning meds disguised in a cracker with ferretvite on top. She loved it! Yay! No syringe!

She seems like she is back to her normal weight (she was looking boney for a while) and all of her discharge is clear! She is even walking (and running and jumping and leaping) like normal again, no more topsy-turvy. I did notice that she does have a cough this morning. It is the first time I have heard her cough more than once or twice per hour. It does not seem to be slowing her down, but I am going to watch it very closely. Is she coughing up the junk in her lungs maybe? 

The cough sounds like a little raspy squeak accompanied by the tensing of abdominal muscles. 

GEEZE! I thought rats were bad at introductions! At least they don't peck and pluck each other! what a nightmare. Hope it all works out, all the switching and building sounds complicated. Your birds could not ask for a better mom,you really sound invested in your animals. 

Wow, looks like you and Sterling have gone far! He sounds like a very diverse horse. At my barn we have all kinds of horses, dressage, hunter, show jumping and backyard ridding (mostly english, but we have a few western ridders as well) None of them do everything though!

Ok, you are probably going to think this is really funny, but keep in mind I am new to this forum and I do not know what everything means yet.

I saw that your position was 'global moderator' I thought that meant that you were the founder/caretaker of this forum! I was picturing a 40-somthing year old computer savvy animal lover who ran her own farm/ranch. I was SHOCKED when I saw your jumping picture. I cant tell your age, but I am now thinking that you are not in fact in your forties lol.

I don't know what your level of school is, or what you plan to pursue in life, but have you considered veterinary work or animal husbandry? I don't know you at all except through this thread, but I get the feeling you would be good working with animals professionally. If all the schooling scares you off (like it did me!) you could also look into an apprenticeship. I did one, and now I mange a horse stable and LOVE doing it!It is such a rewarding occupation. 

Oh, and if you decide to go into veterinary medicine, You should move to Virginia and open up a small exotics clinic! I would take my babies to you in a heartbeat!


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Improving rat is improving. Haha, she sounds like she has more than enough energy to keep you busy. Coughing..it could be she's getting it out of her lungs. Was it after she ate the cracker? Sometimes they can stick and cause a choke, one of the symptoms of which is coughing. Keep an eye on her, and if it doesn't get worse, don't be too worried.

Rats have the easiest intros ever, compared to the other animals I've dealt with. I'm hopeful for it to work out, too, and hoping that my RIR quits eating her eggs.. She seems to have, but then occasionally she'll eat one. If she keeps it up I will have to have her isolated forever or in a different coop, because the rest of the flock will learn to eat eggs, too, and I need SOME eggs, even though my birds are mostly just pets..I like my breakfast, darn it!

Sterling's a really good horse. I use him for everything, but I don't ride western at all on him- he doesnt know how. He can neckrein, but that's all, and I taught him that for trail riding so I don't look like a dressage rider in the mountains. I can ride western, but I like english riding and bareback a lot better, and I do most of my riding bareback, especially when training. The connection is better, he can feel changes in my seat more easily without a saddle. Saddles are for lessons, practice before shows, trail rides, and shows. Not screwing around in the arena.

Global Mods just enforce rules and remove spam and ban people, sadly. The administrator is the one who owns the site, and they havn't been seen in ages. I'm not 40, not even out of high school yet. Haha.

I actually really want to be a vet, but the schooling would be too much for me. I'm probably going to get a bachelors in veterinary medicine and work as a vet tech or vet assistant, I think. I may change my mind and go for the masters or phd in VM, but the money and time and stuff is a lot for my mind to wrap around. School is so miserable for me now, I can't imagine willingly putting myself back into it for another 10 years. My grades are good enough, but my mental state is not.

I really just want to sit around with my animals all the time, but you need money and money means work. Another job I'm considering is Taxidermy, or perhaps somthing with Wildlife veterinary. I have always wanted to have a pet fox, and if I could be the vet for it as well that would be great. I want a job where no one will care if my pet fox comes to work, because it likely will go with me.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

Now that I think about it, I think she DID cough after the cracker! She is still coughing randomly, but not as bad as this morning. I think her evening dose of meds will have be administered by just Ferretvite, not ferretvite and a cracker.

It is so cool you get breakfast from your pets! I am always complaining to my husband (jokingly) that I do nothing but feed and clean animals, and yet, they never let me have a break from the housekeeping and make dinner for me! I think it's great that yours, -in a sense- do!

Of course, THey give me lots in the way of smiles, laughter and happiness 

Don't let school get in the way of your dreams! If you want to spend time with your animals, look for a job with animals. Not all animal jobs require schooling. I don't even have my associates degree yet, and I have been working professionally with horses for 5 years. The only training I had was working weekends and summers at a ranch themed retreat center and camp when I was in my mid-teens. It was enough! I learned SO much about horses that I was able to take that knowledge and get a real job! Since you have already worked with horses and owned one, you are way better off than I was; the only pets I was allowed to have as a kid were Betta fish and hamsters. You are already very knowledgeable, and employers like that. You may start off by cleaning stalls, but with hard work you can ascend the ladder and maybe start your own stable/barn/kennel WHATEVER someday!

And don't let High School get you down either, I know it can stink sometimes. When I graduated I refused to go to college and was stuck working my after school job at a local fabric store for 2 years. I hated it and I hated nearly everything else. I was in a really bad place for a long time until my mom intervened and made me get off my butt and do something with my life. I ended up going to a community college and LOVING it! Getting out of the drama of High School plus studying something you are interested in makes a huge difference in your school experience. I was so inspired by school that I quit my job and started looking for a job I would enjoy. I did not like working retail one bit, but I knew that I loved working with animals. Soon after I found my current job, and worked as a barn hand for 6 months before I was promoted to assistant Manager. 5 months after that, the old manager retired and I took over as full time manger of a fantastic barn filled with fantastic animals and people. I had to break from school for a while because of work, but I am returning this summer and pursuing a degree in astrophysics.

The vet tech is a good road too. I considered that myself a while back and even now the prospect is tempting. Do you have a vet tech school in your area? 

Oh, and if you ever have a fox, can I meet him? They are so adorable!!


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Try just the ferrivite  I refuse to trust crackers. Too sticky and dry for my ratties, I worry too much about them choking.

I love it, although with the number of eggs I get I have to actually work to find uses for them all! I bake with them, eat them, and sometimes just make random cakes/cupcakes with my boyfriend, who likes to cook with me. 

Thank you for the encouragement. I'm going to start looking for a summer job in the next couple of months. It will be my first real job, and I'm excited/nervous. I think I may try the pet store here, the vet clinic near my house, the small taxidermy place nearby, and maybe baskin robbins. (I have experience-ish in taxidermy and am very interested in it, I have mounted 3 foxes of my own and want to learn more about it) I was told last year that I had gotten a job, but the woman never called to tell me when to come work! It was one I really wanted, too. Grooming dogs/helping in a grooming place, the same place I take my dog when she needs a bath. Hooray for self-service. I have good grades and I'm hopeful for better luck this time around. I went to the mall and got a formal-ish jacket for interviews this week, since employers don't like teenagers who show up in bullet for my valentine shirts and wearing all black.

High school sucks..seriously. I'm scared to get a job and I avoid school if I can, especially lately since I've been sick. I have hopes for the future but everything seems so far out of reach.

Not sure on the vet tech school, but I may end up out of state for college. We shall see. Some of it has to do with my boyfriend's college plans as well. We've been together for a while, and if we make it that long, it is something to consider. He and I will have to talk about that when the time comes.

If I have a fox, then yes you can meet it! I think they are the sweetest things ever and I've wanted to have one for years now. I think it's best to wait until I am able to give it the time and attention and money it will need, so it will remain a goal to look towards until I have a steady job and am stable finacially.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

I'll avoid crackers from now on, thanks for the tip! are whole wheat cereal flakes bad as well? I am starting to question everything I knew about rat heath!

Good luck with the interviews! A good tip is to ALWAYS go in and talk to someone, even if the application is online and they say that you do not need to visit. If you just fill out an application online you will be a number in their system and they will never look twice unless they are truly desperate to hire someone. Always go in, talk to the manager and give them a person to consider,not just a number. They will also like that you were diligent and willing enough to come in. Keep it short and sweet, tell them who you are and why you would like to work with them. Also throw in any questions you have while there. Good luck!

Don't be scared of working. It can be a pain sometimes, but people were not made to sit around. I get depressed if I am sitting round with nothing to do for hours because I feel like I am not accomplishing anything. Work clears it right up! Not to say is all a walk in the park, but work is good for humans. It makes us appreciate what we have. The paycheck is not bad either 

The future will be here before you know it, and you will be out of HS and into a better place (because really, MOST places are better then HS!) Just hang in there. My senior year was nothing but counting down the days until graduation, it seemed forever away but I could not believe how fast it arrived!

Keep that fox goal! Goals are such a great motivator, and it makes you enjoy work, school and life sooo much more. I try to set goals with just about everything, even if they are as small as 'clean the bathroom today.' reaching a goal, no matter what it is is such an encouragement!

Good grief, I sound like a cheap phycologist. I do not mean to tell you how to live your life, I am just sharing what I have learned in my short but full 25 years! 

The job interview advice is also coming form the fact that I am responsible for hiring at the barn, and those are the things I look for in a potential employee.

Good luck with the taxidermy job, and everything else!


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Cereal flakes are fine. It's just the way crackers become sticky that is an issue. You know that feeling, where you have eaten so many crackers and cannot swallow and need a drink? That's kind of how it is for rats, but it can make them choke and cough. Crunchy foods are awesome and I feed my ratties cereal sometimes as a treat. I'm also guilty of giving them crackers but I try not to..they just get the grabby paws and it's hard to resist!

I'll definitly keep that in mind, and I appreciate the advice. I'm always nervous to just go in and ask for work because maybe they won't need any more people and will get mad or think I'm rude for asking.

I seriously would be happy doing nothing all day, though.. In the summer I sit on my computer all day, ride Sterling for sometimes 4+ hours, then back to the computer, and then eat and go to bed. That's all I do.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

Excellent! I will pick up some cereal next time I go shopping.  Kellogg's Total is good right? I have heard good things.

Never be afraid to ask for work! That is how people get hired, by asking. I get dozens of phone calls each year from people wanting a job at this barn. We are right next to a college campus so new students exploring the area always seem to find us and know that we have a staff. I have to turn nearly all of them down because we only require a few extra hands and the positions are filled quickly. I have never once been offended at someone asking. In fact, I normally ask them a few questions about their experience and then get their name and number for future reference. Nearly all of my employees were hired over a year after they asked, when a position opened up. It makes things a lot easier for me because I don't have to go looking for people, instead, they find me!

I can't speak for all employers, but I am guessing that this is the general feeling. We don't like to make life hard for ourselves, and looking for good people is quite a chore.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

bread, crackers, peanut butter, potatoes, etc...anything that you have to make sure you have a drink of something after to "wash it down" will become possible causes of choking.

I have had rats choke on lab blocks, so its not just the danger foods LOLOL


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

YIKES!!!!! I am going to have to be more carful! I have always avoided sticky foods like peanut butter and the like, but I did not realize the danger of dry foods.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

Uh oh.... Not good.

Bean has been doing great. she has been back to normal for about 2 weeks now. She is still on Doxy and Baytril, we had some left over and wanted to finish off her dose even though our vet recommended only 2 weeks. She has now been on both meds, twice a day for a little over 3 weeks.

We just found that she is once again spitting up slimy, clear/greenish tinged mucus.

What do we do?!?! She was doing so well, we thought that she was going to be alright! She is too young to die, only a year old. She is a rescue, so her breeding is most likely not very good, but she is such a sweet girl, and it looks like we might loose her :'( Is there anything that anyone can recommend? We will try just about anything at this point. Thank you for your time.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

What are you feeding her?


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

She gets Mazuri rat blocks as her main diet, supplemented by fresh fruits and veggies daily (around 1 tbspn) 

She also gets a small blob of Ferretvite daily.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

I just listened to her lungs and heart through a stethoscope. My mom is a science teacher and gave me one on loan to listen to the rats.

I tried listening to her and compare the sound to my other rats that are not showing any signs of distress. Everything really sounded the same. It sounded like a very dull roar; like listening to the traffic on an interstate a few blocks away, or holding a sea shell up to your ear. I did not hear anything in the way of clicking, gurgling, wheezing or chirping. 

I assume this is good? Or did I listen wrong? I held the scope right behind their arms on the sides, then again from in between their front legs. 

Beans discharge seems to have cleared, she must have groomed it off. She is acting pretty normal. She seems a bit sleepy, but not lethargic. She was dead set on nibbling on the scope, which I took as a good sign.

She defiantly had mucus a few hours ago though. It was not water or anything else that was available to her in her cage. It had that tell-tale slippery feeling and icky smell, like a fish market.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Sounds like Mazuri...I found it had a fishy smell overall, and when choked on (had a few here who gobbled blocks) came back up as a greenish slime.


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

So it is what I am feeding her?

AHHHH!!!!! I feel so bad!

Is there anything I can feed her in the mean time before I can get some HT 2014? I was planning on switching over soon, but what can I feed while I am waiting for it to come in?

So, she doesn't have respiratory? Did she have it before, or were we dealing with a choke all along? Could she have aspirated part of a choke and then developed Pneumonia from it? Or was the vet just totally wrong?

ugggg, I am so confused.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

smell her mouth, does it smell infected? Is she having respiratory issues again?


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

Her mouth smells normal, as does the rest of her. While I was draining sputniks abscess I cold smell a very strong oder of what seemed like rotten veggies. When I have had an ulcerating tumor on my hands I can smell a rotting flesh oder, or what smells like a large dog in desperate need of a bath. Bean smells like neither one.

I just checked her with the stethoscope, and once again, I just heard the roar (her blood flowing I am assuming) and her little heartbeat. No sounds of respiratory distress at all and she is acting like her norma self; bouncy, cheerful, troublesome and adorable!

Did we advert disaster once more? What a confusing animal!


----------



## Frodowisebrandytook (Mar 26, 2011)

Bean is out on the sofa with me and running around like normal though she seems to be making a very faint whistling/squeaking sound as she sniff checks everything. Could that sound be more related to the air passing though her nose and making a sound or is it her lungs?

I just listened with the steth again and I could definitely hear the whistling through the scope. I could not tell if it was coming directly from her lungs though.


----------

