# The Evil Behind Pet Stores!!!



## kailey11293 (Apr 13, 2009)

okay let me begin this with stating that i relize some of the things im about to say were a big no no so spare me the comment upon them for i am but a dumb 16 year old who has a big heart for my little rat...

which is where this whole matter started! i usually go into petland (a pet store incase you didn't know) to look around and hold all the ADORABLE animals. Well on a particular day about 5 days ago to be exact i was playing with a new batch of rats that they had out. Next thing i know this adorable little beige and white rat is jumping into my hands and looking into my eyes! Then she crawls into my jacket sleeve and promptly refused to leave...how could i say no!!! so despite the fact that i knew little about rats i just had to have her, it was like she chose me and i couldn't let her down even though i was quite positive that my mother would most certainly take to killing me upon my return to the house.

anywho a few days later as i try every day to bond with my little emma (she's a bit skittish about open spaces and much rather prefures the warmth of my sleeves and shirts) i have recently noticed a much increased appatite and a rather roundness to her. my first thought of course after reading many of the forums here is that she was pregnant! i of course cannot care for 12 or so little ones with the current cage i have so i freaked and went to the pet store today to check if the boys and girls are kept in the same cage, and of course they are! so i inform a clerk of my little situation and she tells me that i can bring the babies there which i wasn't to fond of so i told her i'd prolly find them good homes on my own to be sure that they were going to good places. But out of curiocity i asked why they would keep the males and females in one cage because i was sure that the wouldnt want any prego rats. Well to my surpise her prompt reply was of course we want them to get pregnent we feed the babies (of which they "fondly" call pinkies) to the snakes  !!!!! im sure the look on my face must have said that i was baffled that they could be so cruel to innocent little babies :'( and i upon hearing that told her that i definietly would not be bringing my possible litter to them and she just laughed and walked away 

i know this is long and thank you for reading but i just had to inform you all with the same possible problem of having a pregnent rat that you *SHOULD NEVER * give the little ones to pet stores unless you want your precious little babies fed to their collection of snakes!


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

Yeah, rats are sold as feeders. Thankfully it's illegal for pet stores to do this in the UK.


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## kailey11293 (Apr 13, 2009)

I wish it were illegal here  
its just terrible that they get to do this to little rats like mine


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## FeffOx (Feb 8, 2009)

Stace87 said:


> Yeah, rats are sold as feeders. Thankfully it's illegal for pet stores to do this in the UK.


My dad and brother said they saw someone buy a pet rat to feed their snake? :-\
Maybe they was mistaken.


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## kailey11293 (Apr 13, 2009)

FeffOx said:


> My dad and brother said they saw someone buy a pet rat to feed their snake? :-\
> Maybe they was mistaken.


i wouldn't doubt it the way the store clerk laughed its like she thought that that was their only purpose!  
people like that really make me mad


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## wizzyjo (Mar 3, 2009)

i also have a great disliking to pet stores. i think most rat lovers to do, it seems to be one of only a few types of animal that isnt really treat well within petstores, well the ones ive been in anyways. i dont have a great knowledge of other animals so im not sure whether their living conditions are good or bad but i do detest the way 90% of pet stores keep and treat their animals. 
have you not thought about getting another rat to join the one you have or do you plan on keeping some of the babies once theyre born? (assuming she is pregnant) rats should be kept in at least pairs or they can become depressed and withdrawn. its no extra hassle to look after 2 rats in comparison to 1


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## AMJ087 (Aug 27, 2008)

Well take good care of the babies and good luck with homes.


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## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

"Our" Petco gets new babies every Wednesday and I wonder what happens to the larger ones who are not sold. It wouldn't surprise me that they kill them and put them in the frozen snake food section. Any Petco employees able to explain to us?


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## kailey11293 (Apr 13, 2009)

wizzyjo said:


> have you not thought about getting another rat to join the one you have or do you plan on keeping some of the babies once theyre born? (assuming she is pregnant) rats should be kept in at least pairs or they can become depressed and withdrawn. its no extra hassle to look after 2 rats in comparison to 1


I have definetly thought about it but my mom is very much against just having emma so getting another will take some convincing but hopefully i'll get there with my mom :-\



AMJ087 said:


> Well take good care of the babies and good luck with homes.


Thank you very much, maybe if she is pregnent then i'll keep just one to stay with her at least i wouldn't have to worry about diseases from pet stores 



begoodtoanimals said:


> "Our" Petco gets new babies every Wednesday and I wonder what happens to the larger ones who are not sold. It wouldn't surprise me that they kill them and put them in the frozen snake food section. Any Petco employees able to explain to us?


it would wouldnt surprise me if they did  **** pet stores they treat every other animal right (hamsters, gerbels, dogs, cats ect...) but not the cute little rats they're just "feeders" to them...


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## EmilyA (Apr 18, 2009)

I used to work at Petco. Petco does not kill any of their animals, even if they are ill, with the exception of fish. Let's say a rat comes in as a "small rat" and doesn't sell for a month. When it's obviously bigger than its cagemates, it's moved to a "medium rat" cage. What would Petco gain by killing a rat because it had grown? They just made two dollars by moving the rat so they can sell it for $5 instead of $3. 

Petco doesn't sell snakes that are large enough to eat medium rats, either. If a snake they were trying to sell got too big to eat multiple small frozen-thawed mice, they'd adopt it out for free - their cages aren't big enough to house a snake that big. Also, it's against company policy to feed any of the reptiles any rodents except those that Petco bought specifically to feed to them. If you think your local Petco is taking animals from the front cages and feeding them to the snakes, call customer service and they'll give you the number of the local person in charge of animal care. 

And as for the rats not getting any care at all... My Petco spent over $200 to treat a rat with a prolapse. And then they adopted it out for free. Sorry, I've got no clue about Petland's policies. 

Last thought - Snakes eat rats. It's a part of life. It's how they were made. I don't think live rodents should be fed to snakes, but that's just my opinion. My snake gets rats I buy frozen and thaw out for him. The rats are humanely euthanized before they are frozen. I like rats, and I wouldn't want to the cause of a rats' pain, but I like my snake, too.


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## EmilyA (Apr 18, 2009)

Completely missed something in my last post: The frozen rats and mice that Petco has were -never- alive in Petco. They buy previously euthanized, frozen, and packaged rats from places like Mice on Ice. Animals that die in the store, even if they're the correct size to be fed to the snakes the store has, aren't fed off. They're placed in a freezer in the back and disposed of later.. I think there's a company that takes them from all of the Petcos.


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## 2boysloose (Jun 27, 2008)

I just donated 5 of my males (2 months old) to Petco, and I KNOW FOR SURE they wont be sold as feeders. Oliver, the floor manager there, sowre to me that these rats are just like the cats there that day, donated to people willing to give them good homes. ANYONE who is willing to provide good homes to the babies gets them and the cage free! =] And of course, if they had ANY sense that the babies were going to be used as feeders, they'd refuse. 
He also tod me that one of the reaons they CAN'T be used as feeders is because it's illegal (in their contract with the stores nationwide). They have their own "vender" where they get there rats, and due to their contract with them, they can't legally sell the babies which people DONATE to the store. =]
So I can rest assured that all 5 of my little boys will find good homes. 
Another thing to reassure me on that, is that another worker at Petco who absolutley LOVED rats, named Brandon, actually took in 3 of my girls since him and his girlfriend LOVE rats. They have a bunch at home, and were looking for some new cagemates for their girls they had already. He promised h'd give some special attention to my 5 boys until he placed them all in homes. =] <3


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## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

Petco doesn't even care to ask what kind of home you will provide. Why would they do that for your rats?
And a free cage? Why would they do that as a business out to make money? Or is it the cage you donated along with your rats?
it all sounds too good to be true. 
If you need to re-home animals the safest way is see where they go and I don't trust any pet store to care enough.


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## 2boysloose (Jun 27, 2008)

Yah, thanks for trying to make me feel better about saying good-bye to my boys, but I KNOW they're gonna be going to good homes. They can't be sold as feeders, it's illegal becuase of their contract with thier venders. Plus, my babies will be out in the special adoption area with the other cats/puppies, and other animals out for adoption on certain days of the week. 
And yeah, it's the cage I've provided.
This Petco isn't like other petstores where you hear horrid stories. I always see them well organized, clean, and the ALWAYS seperate the boys from the girls. I see workers taking time during their break to play with the rats/guinea pigs/ hamsters/mice, etc.
And yeah, whenever I've been there and someone buys a small animal, I always hear them really concerned asking if it's for a pet or feeder, and when someone says something like "Oh no it's for my baby ball python at home" or something like that, this is their EXACT response "Sir, I'm sorry, but this store doesn't supply feeders, though we can refer you to a place that does." No joke.


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## EmilyA (Apr 18, 2009)

It really all comes down to finding the right store. 

The Petco I worked for had a rodent rescue come by and do all-weekend visits twice a week. On the days she was at our store, -all- of us would suggest that people adopt rather than buy, and we handed out her cards when she wasn't around. Even I, the store "reptile person," made DARN sure all of the adoptions went to pet homes. If someone couldn't convince me they knew how to care for an animal properly and they had the correct setup, they were leaving empty-handed. We loved adopting out animals - it's easily a $150+ sale most of the time. 

Seriously, not everyone is an asshole.


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## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

The Petco in our town happily puts mice that are known to be fed to snakes in a carton box. I once "rescued" a mousie that looked too cute to be eaten from a client who had her already in the box and the employee didn't blink an eye when the client said "Tonight they are all dead". So I don't know how strict the policies are enforced.


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## EmilyA (Apr 18, 2009)

Again, it all depends on finding the right store. Some people who work at Petco won't care. But I think most of the people who work there cleaning cages, getting peed on and bitten- often on an hourly basis- do it out of love for animals. 

And most people who own snakes realize that feeding a live rodent to their pet (they can seriously injure or kill a snake) is just plain _stupid._ Really stupid. My snake, at least, has never eaten live. If I thought those "snake sausages" were anything other than a crappy marketing gimmick, I'd be using them. I understand that everyone's got to eat, but I don't agree with causing suffering. "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated,” right?

Sorry if this is disjointed; I had a long day at work and I'm kinda falling asleep...


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## kailey11293 (Apr 13, 2009)

i do agree that the petco where i live is pretty well organized and one of the clerks that i talked to seemed pretty knowledgable but as soon as i asked to see one of the small rats that they had he opened up the cage and i was greeted with a terrible smell along with sneezing and weezing comming from almost every single rat in the cage. when i asked him about that he said that they usually do that for a few days after they get them from their breeder..

I just felt bad for the poor girls but the guy did tell me that he plays with them when ever he could


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## EmilyA (Apr 18, 2009)

Ugh. He should be taking them to the vet, not playing with them. Was their fur kinda matted? Did it look like they'd stopped grooming themselves? Unsanitary conditions and sneezing sound like an upper respritory infection to me. Our rats got URI if we didn't clean the cages every other day because they were always overcrowded. Summer is the worst because whoever designed the cages didn't put enough ventilation in, and I know -our- cages, at least, didn't have fans.


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## kailey11293 (Apr 13, 2009)

EmilyA said:


> Ugh. He should be taking them to the vet, not playing with them. Was their fur kinda matted? Did it look like they'd stopped grooming themselves? Unsanitary conditions and sneezing sound like an upper respritory infection to me. Our rats got URI if we didn't clean the cages every other day because they were always overcrowded. Summer is the worst because whoever designed the cages didn't put enough ventilation in, and I know -our- cages, at least, didn't have fans.


No kidding! i felt so bad for them and i even asked him who their breeder was so that i could call and ask wtf he was doing to make all his rats sick like that! but the guy said only the manager knows who the breeder is...i just feel so bad for the poor things i mean there where like 15-20 per cage thing (more like a poorly ventilated aquarium) for the most part they seemed to be groomed except for a few i think that one was even a rex (thats the one that i asked to hold because i wanted to check, she was one of the ones that were sneezing every five seconds :'( poor babies....).


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## Lynxie (Jun 25, 2008)

The Petsmart near is (Jeffersonville, IN) does amazingly with their rats. The sexes are seperated, they're well taken care of, and they take the advice of the customers who come in and tell them things. For example, when we went in and saw that the wrong kinds of wheels were in their cage, we told the employee in charge of the rats, and she listened to us, said "I didn't know that!" and the next time we went in, the wheels were fixed to the right kind.

Just like everyone else has said, it really just depends on finding the right store.


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## christinac (Mar 31, 2009)

In New Zealand you can't buy pet snakes at all.
So lots of pet shops here take baby rats that aren't able to be kept by their owners or whatever and they're safe from being used as food for snakes, and get sold as pets.


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## kailey11293 (Apr 13, 2009)

I wish they did that here in the states :-\


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## XxToxicTouch1xX (Feb 2, 2009)

we actually only buy from petstores because everytime we buy one we say we saved them, of course you cant save'em all, but it still feels goid to kno u've saved a few in my opinion..but uh apparently i had the same problem as you, our newest that we just purchased 7 days ago just dandomly gave birth today to 4 babies...0_o she didnt even look preg. we had absolutly no clue at all and were completely taken by surprise...if u didnt see my several frantic threads lol which btw sry bout that to everyone, but u can prolly assume i was pretty panicked and frantic and terrified! lol

so yeah, i feel for you, btw have the babies been born yet?


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## ATez (May 5, 2009)

Wow. I read this and now I'm thinking what if I love both rats AND snakes!
I mean if you have a rat of course you love it and want nothing to happen to it! I love my rats they're my babies. But so is my tarantula. And if I had a snake I'd have to feed it somehow... I mean they eat rats and rabbits and cute fuzzy animals! But they need to eat too... What I find completely stupid and cruel is people putting two animals together in a bin or a pit just too see which one will die first. Like a tarantula and a scorpion or a rat and a dog... I've seen it on you tube. The poor little thing was screaming in pain.  And a few days ago i've seen in the journal a woman has to go to court for killing 12 fish. I kid you not. She wanted to proove that a kind of shampoo was toxic and put some in with the fish. All off them died but one. If you have a pet turtle that eats goldfish it's fine tho. She might have to pay 2000$. Twice! I mean I eat sushi. It's almost silly. People who say it's different with fish I believe it's due to the fact that a fish doesn't have expressions. Dead or alive it looks the same.

I agree with you guys when it's plain cruelty but if it's to be food for a snake... It's the way life works. We eat cows that end up being killed and chicken and pigs and so much more! Got some lobster the other day and I had to boil it dead. Of course my rats enjoyed a couple of lobster legs and had fun trying to get it outta there.

If we feed an animal to another animal or to ouselves we're being cruel but if an animal kills a person it's not his fault because he was scared?

We eat and we get eaten it's the way of life.

I'm not saying you guys are wrong. If you have a pet take responsability for it, take care of it and love it!
Which is just what people who choose to have a snake do. They love their snake and feed them. 

I feed my rats and tarantula crickets. They're crazy for them! ;D


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## DarkRose (Mar 22, 2008)

ATez said:


> I agree with you guys when it's plain cruelty but if it's to be food for a snake... It's the way life works. We eat cows that end up being killed and chicken and pigs and so much more! Got some lobster the other day and I had to boil it dead. Of course my rats enjoyed a couple of lobster legs and had fun trying to get it outta there.



Also they Kill horses for dog food. And the horse is my favorite animal. but i do agree with you also.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

I have a snake, and i have two ratties. I buy all of our feeders frozen, and i feel bad, but maj needs to eat. i mean really, i even rescue the crickets that i'm supposed to be feeding to my frog sometimes :O
it is sad, but it's life. if they die humanly, then it is ok, sad, but nature.


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## Little-Fizz (Mar 5, 2009)

Just so you know, Pet stores are behind a whole lot more evil then that. I always knew that but I couldn't resist going and rescuing my little girls from being snake food. They had URIs and were covered in rat lice. Nothing a quick visit to the vets couldn't fix. But I called the pet store to complain and the guy sounded so dumb founded "oh... " me : "Yeah thats right "oh" " *click*

Not only do they not care about their rats but by buying from pet stores that sell animals you are supporting puppy and kitty mills. No pet stores get from breeders. The odd pet store only has kittens that get brought to them because it's an accidental litter and they can't find homes for them. But the rest come from horrible, disgusting puppy mills. I refuse to support that.


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## Bomileloed (Jul 4, 2009)

I completely agree with you. I purchased two hooded rats at Petsmart and when the girl (she looked like a teenager) was pulling out one she goes "Oh look his tail was bitten off" I was very worried because how can you not notice that? I am sure there would have been blood in the bedding and the poor guys tail somewhere... I think that just proves how much the places really value their rats :/ I'm just glad I "saved" him from further mistreatment and got his tail healed up.


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## chiklet1503 (Jun 12, 2009)

Every time I'm in PetSmart or Petco, I stop by the rat & small animal section to check them out. I would never buy a rat from a big pet store like that because I don't believe in supporting them. I feel awful when I see them, but buying one and taking them home won't help shut down mill breeders. They will simply replace the one you bought without hesitation. This enables them to do what they do. They rely on people to 'feel bad' and 'try to help'

I did get my two from a store however... It's a very small pet store. My boy Ralph was brought to the store because his owner couldn't find him a home- he was the last male left from a litter. (I found this out a few weeks after I adopted him)

My new girl, Penelope, was the result of a female being surrendered at the store who turned out to be pregnant. The only reason I adopted her was because the girl working there took the babies out daily and interacted with them, regardless of her lack of rat-knowledge. (The store itself takes in many unwanted pets and adopts them out. I got my boy Ralph for free.)

Red flags were:

_- picking up some of the babies by their tails
- telling me to feed them hamster food
- separating them from their mother at only TWO WEEKS OLD!!!
- not adopting out in pairs or informing people that they should be kept in pairs
- saying it was fine to keep them in a 10-20 gal tank
- Not knowing the correct or approximate age of their animals_

Poor Penelope was only 4 weeks when I brought her home! She was the same size as a medium-large mouse.


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## Kimbo (Jul 9, 2009)

I dont know this store you go to since i live in rural australian towns but the all the ones iv been to...

half of them have male and female separate (thankgoodness my rattus isnt pregnant). 1 of them has had adult rats. All picked up by their tails. And all of them were feeders I think.

I remember getting my second rat from a petstore, saw ladies taking out frozen rats which kinda creeped me out abit, but im sure those ones were killed humanely.

I buy from petstores becuase id rather the rats there not be chow so i save at least one of them from a terrible fate, and even if you dont support the petshops, it wont stop them from getting more rats or getting less. There will always be someone there to buy rats, for pets or for pet food.

And besides, there are no breeders I have access to, rat breeders here are a..well..rare breed lol. And i love looking at the ratties, most of them are in good health besides the one my brother brought which had mites on its ears.


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## trentrules (Aug 2, 2009)

The petSmart near me is really good. The rats are never overcrowded. They use comfort wheels. They always have igloos for hiding in and only sell one sex. The babies are always friendly and well socialised. I know they get from a mill, just like any other pet store, but at least they're taken care of while in the store.

I'm divided when it comes to buying from pet stores. I feel like a hipocrite saying, "I wish these places would be shut down," then buying stuff, (usually supplies), there. Because of this, I try to get whatever I can at regular supply stores that don't sell live animals. On the other hand, although I don't usually, I have gotten rats from pet stores and I don't regret it. Some of my sweetest and most loving ones could have ended up live food, (only one of my current kids came from a feeder bin, but several of my past ones did). Instead they got to live a good life and have been quite spoiled. So, I know how you feel. Most people don't consider it rescuing or saving, because it's just being replaced by another one. However, that little guy is still only alive because you chose to get him. When I first got into rats, I got a boy who was only two weeks old. He was so tiny and all of his brothers and sisters were gone within the week. I'm sure most if not all, were bought as feeders. Had I not gotten him, my little boy would never have been able to experience life. 
BTW, I was lied to when I got him. I had just gotten into rats and didn't know what they looked like at different ages. They told me he was weaned. It wasn't until later I found out the truth.


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## maddy (Jul 27, 2009)

I GOT MY RATS FROM A PET SHOP BUT SHE GETS THEM FROM A BREEDER SHE KNOWS SO I KNOW THAT MY RATS WERE GONNA BE REALLY WELL SOCIALISED.
WHEN I GOT THEM.
ITS A PRIVATELY OWNED PET SHOP SO ITS NOT PART OF A CHAIN AND I THINK THAT HELPS
SHE NEVER HAS MORE STOCK THAN SHE OR HER STAFF CAN 
HANDLE
SO ALL THE ANIMALS ARE REALLY TAIM BEFORE THEY go TO THERE NEW HOMES.
sorry, i've been writing in caps
hit the caps lock by mistake and cant be bothered wrewriting my post again
i'm not shouting my head off at anyone


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## Lea (May 15, 2009)

@maddy, it's possible to disable the caps lock key if it is annoying you. Assuming you are using windows, it involves editing the registry, which can be dangerous. But you can download a free program to do it for you. Here's a link to one: http://www.topshareware.com/Caps-Lock-Changer-download-57498.htm 

warning: I haven't tried this myself as I don't use windows (except at work ). You can google "disable caps lock" and find lots of info if you are interested.


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## maddy (Jul 27, 2009)

i hit the caps lock all the time


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## flying.spaghetti.monster (Aug 4, 2009)

I've read this with interest... I got my two rat babies yesterday. I read up on them first and saved to buy the double critter nation cage so they would have the best possible life - and I asked the pet store if it wasn't a bit early since a fortnight earlier they'd been weeny pink things. The store agreed and said they'd ring when they were ready - and actually enforced a week longer stay after the breeder said 'oh, they're eating solids, sell them' - they weren't fully weaned then!

Bad things about the pet store:- When I went to get them I bought a carry cage for the journey home. The store assistant managed to drop the bottom out of it sending my baby rats flying over 5ft to the floor! Where I managed to scoop one straight up, but the other escaped under shelving. 'That's the third we've lost today! We'll have to put some food down' they said. Luckily I think because I was standing there they were a bit more proactive and tore up the shelving to catch the poor terrified mite. Then, when I was paying, the woman casually tells me the second one was a boy... when I reserved them originally we had sexed them both as female, but since then slight balls were showing. So I had to swap out the male as I no way wanted to deal with babies.

Now I am slightly concerned that it is possible either of the girls could be pregnant - I think they are 6 weeks? And they didn't seperate them till yesterday, even then just by price/colour, not by sex. Can a very young male impregnate a baby female, or is it only adult males that do that? When would I know for sure?

I was also very unimpressed when the owner came out and said 'oh, cute. Are they going to be pets, then?' Like I might have just carefully chosen them because my snake likes rats with personality and cute colourings  (BTW I don't have a snake)...


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

flying.spaghetti.monster said:


> Now I am slightly concerned that it is possible either of the girls could be pregnant - I think they are 6 weeks? And they didn't seperate them till yesterday, even then just by price/colour, not by sex. Can a very young male impregnate a baby female, or is it only adult males that do that? When would I know for sure?


Oh dear... yes they could be pregnant. If there was no way you could deal with babies, it may have been more ideal for you to get two males. It would be very bad for their health and even dangerous if they were to have litters at such a young age.


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## flying.spaghetti.monster (Aug 4, 2009)

If they are, I'll manage  I've hand reared baby chinchillas from birth, so I imagine rats aren't too hard... and I'll have my CN cage as well as the tank so there'll be space to seperate the girls and make babies safe. Just hoping they aren't pregnant as they are only babies themselves and it would be too much for them. I never even considered it was possible till I came on here... it's opened my eyes!


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## chiklet1503 (Jun 12, 2009)

They *should* have been sexed and separated at 4 weeks as around 5 weeks they are mature enough to begin mating wtih one another.

Hopefully your girls are not pregnant :-(


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## js6stone (Aug 7, 2009)

EmilyA said:


> Last thought - Snakes eat rats. It's a part of life. It's how they were made. I don't think live rodents should be fed to snakes, but that's just my opinion. My snake gets rats I buy frozen and thaw out for him. The rats are humanely euthanized before they are frozen. I like rats, and I wouldn't want to the cause of a rats' pain, but I like my snake, too.


We have a snake too that only eats frozen mice. I could not watch a live baby being eaten.

I think Petland is the worth place ever! I've seen too many horror stories about them! I would never even buy a fish from them.


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## MissHinasaki (Jul 29, 2009)

The store where I got my mice had a few males in with the females. I was very upset but was lucky enough to get some females that didn't end up being pregnant.

I stop at our local Petsmart quite often to get supplies and they had 3 baby rats in that were absolutely adorable. There was a black bareback, a hairless, and the cutest blazed beige dilute odd-eye. I knew that it wasn't a good idea to get him but I just asked a clerk if I could take him out. When they opened the cage it was about the worst thing I've ever smelled in my entire life! I was outraged but didn't say anything. They were all terrified of my hand when I placed it in there. I almost wanted to get just so he could get out of there and I told myself that if he's still there in two months, I'll get him and take him to a vet straight away.


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## RandomWiktor (Aug 19, 2009)

Interesting read. I thought I might point out a few things...

Buying rats from pet stores isn't rescue, it is a sympathy purchase; it is your choice to make, but calling it "rescue" trivializes what all of the rodent rescues out there are doing to help abused, neglected, abandoned rats. While sympathy purchase certainly improves the life of that individual rat and thus depending on your ethics may be acceptable, it also puts money in the pockets of irresponsible stores and commercial breeders, both of which routinely exploit and abuse/neglect rats. I noticed comments about not supporting stores that sell dogs by buying rats and rat supplies because this supports puppy mills. Unfortunately, the majority of pet store animals in the US - especially at big chain stores - are "mill" bred regardless of species. Large commercial breeders supply stores like Petco, Petsmart, Petland, etc. and there have been numerous cruelty investigations into the practices of these facilities. Though they meet basic regulations when regulations exist, regulations are not made with pet animal welfare in mind. They are made with basic surival and cost effectiveness in mind. I don't know if anyone here has seen images of commercial rat breeding facilities, but many make puppy mills look tame. Even the best are dramatically over-crowded, under-enriched, and entrenched in practices that make the spread of parasites & disease likely. Buying a rat from such stores is thus very much like buying from a puppy mill, bird mill, or other similarly abhorrent intensive animal breeding business. As with dogs and cats, adopting rats from rescues/former owners or buying from a credible breeder is the most humane way to acquire a new pet. 

As far as feeding snakes go... predation may be sad, but it is a fact of life. I do agree 110% that feeder rodents should be treated humanely just as those being sold for pets, but there is no outright cruelty in feeding a pet it's natural diet. I guarentee that the cow, chicken, or pig you feed your dog, cat, or self had a much more brutal life and death than anything a feeder rodent has gone through; most reputable reptile owners stun or pre-kill their feeders to prevent harm to the predator, which is more than we can say for the billions of chickens slaughtered without stunning since there are no humane slaughter laws protecting them in the US. The majority of meat (and probably all of pet food meat save for the organic products) in this country comes from intensive agriculture - aka factory farms - in which animals are treated far worse and on a greater scale than any horror in a pet store. Feeding whole rodents is merely more graphic than a neatly packaged bag of dog food, but the result is the same: an animal has died to sustain your pet's life. So, try not to rush to condemn snake owners for doing what they need to keep their pets alive and healthy - nor the stores that provide rodents for this purpose.


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## mother ratty (Sep 1, 2009)

i agree i brought my girl from a pet shop about three weeks ago and she was in a cage with about 6 males (not fair to her at all).this morning i got up to 13 babies ;D. i'm a first time mum to baby rats. ???Will never take the babies back to the pet shop.If anyone could help with some info on looking after them it would be greatly appricated.


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