# Gorgeous Siamese babies



## Sweet Whispers Rattery

I reside in Pottsville, Pennsylvania which is in Northeastern, PA.

I currently have 2 Red Eyed Siamese Dumbo females and 6 Black Eyed Siamese males (5 standard ear and 1 dumbo) available to loving pet homes. They are old enough now to go to their new forever homes. They've been handled since birth and are very sweet outgoing babies. If anyone is interested feel free to visit my website or email me personally. Questions just let me know.


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## ema-leigh

I thought you couldnt advertise planned litters on this site?


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## Simisama

I thought so too.. I guess she didn't read the rules. :/


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## ema-leigh

Well they are cute babies either way, heh!


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## Kinsey

Please do not advertise planned litters on this site. This site does not advocate planned breeding.


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## Katydid

Kinsey said:


> Please do not advertise planned litters on this site. This site does not advocate planned breeding.


You may want to reword this a bit. Unless you think that only unplanned litters are okay and planned litters aren't. I'm not trying to start anything but this sounds like you think that deliberate, responsible breeding is a bad thing...


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## SRGaudio1

I kinda agree, you guys seem a little over the top about this. Ratties needing homes are Ratties needing homes :/


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## ema-leigh

As both a breeder and a rescuer I still believe planned litters shouldnt be posted on here. Anybody on this site would search for a breeder online if thats what they wanted - as the majority have websites. An ethical breeder should have some sort of waiting list complied before having the litter, so they know theres homes available. Alot of people on this site run rescues, and get to see first hand just how many ratties are desperatly need of a good home. Even though these siamese rats are gorgeous, thats 8 potential homes for the rescue rats gone. This site has rules for a reason, im suprised a mod hasnt deleted this already.


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## Alexc844

The mods have discussed it and although promoting breeding is NOT allowed on this site, posting that you have babies for adoption in the Rats Needing Homes section, planned or not, is fine.


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## ema-leigh

Sure... should of figured really. :-\


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## Katydid

I understand and agree with the reason for not posting planned litters on the board. However, the connotation to the phrase "we do not advocate" means "we do not support." I should hope that this forum does support planned breeding as opposed to haphazard breeding.

I was just trying to clarify a situation.


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## Alexc844

Correct. Up until recently I actually wasn't fully aware that breeding discussion wasn't welcome. That does not mean this forum frowns upon GOOD breeders. But, i think the main issue is that we do not want to encourage BYB's. So, we just do not allow breeding discussion at all. This rule however does NOT carry over to the rats needing homes section, since this section isn't really for discussion.
Rats need homes, regardless of where they come from.

Anyway, that is the way I perceived the rule.


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## ema-leigh

Check out this link http://www.ratforum.com/index.php/topic,21583.0.html

The rule was clearly stated here NOT to advertise planned litters. Which mods discussed this?


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## Simisama

ema-leigh said:


> Check out this link http://www.ratforum.com/index.php/topic,21583.0.html
> 
> The rule was clearly stated here NOT to advertise planned litters. Which mods discussed this?


"don't advertise intentionally bred litters on the "rats needing homes" section"

What?!?!?! Alex just said that we COULD advertise planned litters!

So can we or can't we?


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## laughingrats

People have been blasted before for posting up their planned litters...so unless its offialy noted that you can post....I wouldn't.


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## Ratyloveralways

Alexc844 said:


> The mods have discussed it and although promoting breeding is NOT allowed on this site, posting that you have babies for adoption in the Rats Needing Homes section, planned or not, is fine.


So you guys are nice to her and are fine with it with her but not with me. My rat baby's need good homes to even if i am not a breeder and she is, etc. That is just so wrong. ??? ??? ???


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## ema-leigh

I totally agree with you Ratloveralways. I complained to several mods about this thread, and posted a thread about this thread. Yet no action was taken. I believe in that case, none of the mods have the right to yell at you if they are going to let breeders post on here. I breed, but wouldnt post my litters on here... thats what waiting lists are for! GAH.


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## laughingrats

I don't under stand why this registered breeder (or is this rattery registered?) Would need to post on a forum. Like you said Ema, she should have a waiting list.


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## CSTR

Newer Rattery's don't always have waiting lists since they are, well, new. They have to get the word out that their rattery exists.

Also, I don't see a problem with a rattery posting that they have babies on a RAT forum. Now if it was something like craiglist, then yes, I could see a problem, but not with this.


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## laughingrats

Since they're registered with NARR, it is alot easier for them to be known. 

You may not have a problem with it, but many others do. It is not fair to be posting planned litters (especially registered) to those who are trying to find homes for rescues, and accidental litters. Why is it that people that have posted their planned litters got flammed, and yet this is fine. I'm not talking about "BYBs" that have posted, but about other ratteries. Even I would never post a litter here, regardless if it was planned or accidental. I believe this thread should be for helping rescues in need of homes. The rule was clearly posted: "don't advertise intentionally bred litters on the "rats needing homes" section."



> AMJ087
> Global Moderator
> Squishy Laprat
> *****
> Offline Offline
> 
> Posts: 1619
> 
> 
> 
> View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
> 
> Guidelines discussion from "ATTN Breeders"
> « on: February 28, 2010, 09:15:34 AM » Reply with quote
> So lets start over here everyone. Through all the lost links and previous discussion heres what most of us have agreed upon. So if anyone has more ideas please present them so we can further discuss. We want to solve the problems going on. The discussions we've had so far (minus the mix up involving a few people) has been great!!! I think we will come to a conclusion soon and hopefully stop some of the issues that have come up!!
> 
> - don't say you're a breeder unless the topic closely relates to breeding and/or your experience is questioned
> - if you are going to promote your rattery be sure to provide the link to a website or detailed information
> - *don't advertise intentionally bred litters on the "rats needing homes" section*
> - the already existing rule about not discussing / asking questions about intentional breeding


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## lilspaz68

No offense but a new rattery should be mentored and the mentor should help with the advertising/wait list etc...a smaller forum like this is not where a good rattery should advertise, unless they are rescue litters (unplanned). A good breeder should have a website and there's word of mouth of course. They don't need to corner the market on the rescue sites as well. I left a forum where a breeder was using the forum to advertise and sell her badly bred babies. She would PM people considering adopting a rescue baby and get them to buy one of hers.

Make up your mind Mods! Sit down, in IM, Mod corner whatever you have and make a definitive rule. You were doing really well up until this came up...again!


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## littlematchstick

We are all going to have a more detailed discussion on what we expect and as soon as we make a decision we will post a more CLEAR and detailed list of rules on how to handle the breeders and whatnot on the forum. So give us a few days to resolve this and we will make a Post here in this section as well as the news and announcements section. Thanks guys!


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## Alexc844

Ratyloveralways said:


> Alexc844 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The mods have discussed it and although promoting breeding is NOT allowed on this site, posting that you have babies for adoption in the Rats Needing Homes section, planned or not, is fine.
> 
> 
> 
> So you guys are nice to her and are fine with it with her but not with me. My rat baby's need good homes to even if i am not a breeder and she is, etc. That is just so wrong. ??? ??? ???
Click to expand...

I don't believe I ever stated that I had a problem with you or you trying to find your rats homes.

EDIT: And after reading your post history, NO mod discussed it with you. At least not on the account you are posting with now. Everyone who attacked you were members. Don't try to instigate arguments.


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## margar

I'd like to point out the fact that the OP advertised only two babies....

So say a breeder has a waiting list of 11 people, and then the mom has 13 babies, and the breeder needs to find homes for the extra babies, what are they to do (especially in the case of new ratteries)? You can't predict the number of babies a mamma will have.


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## lml8787

Margar said:


> I'd like to point out the fact that the OP advertised only two babies....
> 
> So say a breeder has a waiting list of 11 people, and then the mom has 13 babies, and the breeder needs to find homes for the extra babies, what are they to do (especially in the case of new ratteries)? You can't predict the number of babies a mamma will have.


good point!


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## ema-leigh

Anyone who knows anything about rat breeding who know they COULD end up with 20 plus babies. They should be prepared for this, by either larger waiting lists, being in the position to keep the babies themselves or other advertising means (not a site used to rehome rescues)

I think its more about the morals of the breeder in question. Ethical breeders are trying to help the species as a whole, this includes existing rats and there should be a respect in place for the rescue rats having priority on sites such as these. The breeder could advertise on castanet, kijiji or a site like that. I have waiting lists and advertise on castanet occasionally. There has to be some kind of advertising to promote adopting from good breeders instead of pet stores.


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