# What Breed are my Girls and hermaphrodite



## MiserysCrimsonAngel (Oct 12, 2012)

Snow the hermaphrodite

























Rockstar (they are sisters)


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Snow is a topaz hooded (different name in the us) and rockstar is a black hooded, but quite rusty.

Why do you say Snow is a hermaphrodite? They can occur in rats but are very rare, normally its a female who has fat pads in the wrong place.


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## ratchet (Sep 27, 2012)

i think they're called fawn hooded here.

curious too, why the hermaphrodite? what do you mean by breed? there's usually only fancies, unless you have a lab rat..


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

a lab rat is still the same breed. Though techinically if you take the definition of breed any rat that has a different physical structure, such as a tailess or dumbo, could be classed as a seperate breed, however in reality as they are all interbreedable they are the same and it's far easier to refer to them as varieties.


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## MiserysCrimsonAngel (Oct 12, 2012)

Snow is a hermaphordite, she has the exterior breasts, but she definetly has balls/tesitcals, however her internal organs are that of a female. She/Snow also acts ALOT like a male, she is way more lazy, biggar like a male, ect...She is also "Queen" of the cage, by far the more dom. in the cage, but hates to be out of the cage. Where are Rockstar is more curious, willing to come out of the cage, Snow has Rockstar trained to bring her food. As for Rockstar's "rustiness" she just started getting that this years, is this normal? We've had them for about 18 months now, and about 2 months ago she started with the "rusty", Snow didn't get balls/testies until about 4 or 5 months after we got her (they are both from Petland), they were young when we got them, so I can only guess that they were just off the mom and on to hard food when we got them, so they are almost 2 but we celebrate their "b-day" when we got them which was 2 weeks before x-mas. 
When Snow started to get the "balls" I thought they were a mass too but they didn't and still don't bother her, so they are def. balls. They haven't grown in size either. I talked to another woman who has a hermaphrodite only her girl only has one ball, than I talked to another and her's has 2 balls. Yes I know this is rare, but she acts and smells like a male.

(sorry for the book) Thanks for letting me know what they are though! I figured they were both hooded, but I wasn't too sure about Snow's colouring)


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## ratchet (Sep 27, 2012)

i like your snow.. my first rat looked very similar (and sounds it too, by what you describe her as - alpha but lazy! total treat hound though). its interesting you have a hermaphrodite (i dont doubt it) and great youve been able to provide her for a home for two years! 

isa, all breeds within a species are interbreedable (i.e chihuahua to labrador and thoroughbred horse to holsteiner). i'm pretty sure there are different rat "breeds" - as a breed is really just a unique characteristic that humans breed for. i'm not a rat expert, however, but i would imagine at this point there are differences as a fancy rat is not a sprawley, and so on so forth.


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## trematode (Sep 8, 2012)

I believe the correct term is "colouring" and not breed.


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## Eden10 (Aug 11, 2012)

How interesting! & I think there may have been a couple members on here with hermaphrodite ratties, so maybe they aren't as rare as we thought.
Gorgeous babies, am jelous of Snow's colouring!!! I've been wanting a fawn for a while now!


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Sprague dawleys, whisters etc are strains not breeds, they are inbred to the point where they are genetically very similar, but are still the same breed as our fancy rats. different breed would have to have structural differences, there are very few of these in rats and they can be produced in the same litter as those without, which is why we term them varieities rather than breeds. Dogs have different breeds as they come in a much larger variety of shapes and sizes, we dont have that in thats unless you compare a norway with a rattus for example.


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## MiserysCrimsonAngel (Oct 12, 2012)

Eden10 said:


> .Gorgeous babies, am jelous of Snow's colouring!!! I've been wanting a fawn for a while now!


If you live anywhere near Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada There is a Female Topaz/Fawn Hooded at the Petland in |Confederation male,, she's just a Baby but has almost the exact same markings as my Snow....


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

If you like fawn /topaz heres a few cute baby pics from my last litter. Its a stunning colour, its a shame about the health issues that are associated with the gene.


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

That's a beautiful baby. 

Just curious, what healthy issues do they have?


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

The gene which makes them, red eyed dilute, causes blood platelet storage pool deficiency. Some rats are barely affected, some badly, it is associated with lack of blood clotting and a few other bits and bobs notably a seeming weakend immune system. Its a strong enough link that fawn rats are used as a lab model of some of the human conditions. Theres more info here.

http://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/gard/5034/platelet-storage-pool-deficiency/resources/1

Its why though think they are lovely I was really sad when some were born in that litter. Its was made worse when one of my 2, a lovely lad called sundrop, died at 4.5 weeks old in my hands. Something im sure was related to his colour. Thankfully his sister honeymoon is doing great with one of my good friends. Its a recessive gene weve been trying yo get rid of from our lines.


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

Those are some pretty serous side affects attached to that color gene. I can understand why you'd want to try remove it from your lines. 

It's hard when you see a baby and know the odds are staked against it's survival. It's even harder when it doesn't beat those odds. 

At least you've still got one that's doing great. She really is a beautiful girl.


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## MiserysCrimsonAngel (Oct 12, 2012)

Damnit, should I expect her to have a shorter life? I was wondering why my wall was suddenly "dirty" behind the cage, and when I looked at it closer I noticed it was blood, I just figured she sneezed out some blood or it was really dark snot. But I looked at her now and I noticed that she has a slight nose bleed. It could also explain why she is having a bout of Bumblefoot (both her and her sister have Bumblefoot, but Rockstar -Black Hooded with EXTREME rusting is healing much faster, where Snow - Hermaphrodite Topaz/Fawn Hooded one foot is worse and the other is the same) In Lay Mans terms what else can go wrong? I had to re-read the APT gene part, because in humans APC gene concerns with disease like FAP (Familial Adematosis Polyposis) as well as Gardner's Syndrome (my son and I both suffer from Gardner's Syndrome) In short we are expected to die from cancer of the digestive tract. It effects everyone differents, in the early 90's I was the youngest diagnosed at 12, now they are diagnosing or symptoms showing up as early as 10 or younger depending on puborty(sp?). I've had many operations (major ones) and its hard on a person knowing what your child has to go threw. Now I know how my dad felt and why he never wanted kids....UGH! I am going to shut up now, because I just went from this being about my girl/hermaphrodite Snow and her sister Rockstar to it being about me and my son....
What all should I expect?


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

In common animal terminology often the term morph is used but when the morph is man made, or rather helped along by human breeding choices it's usually referred to as a sport. These terms generally refer more to an animals appearance rather than it's genetics.

With the way rat genetics work, unless you have at least several generations of history, it's not really fair to say that a particular rat is of a particular strain or line because it might have recessive traits that would be inappropriate for that particular strain and therefore will not necessarily breed true.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

In real terms i think its fair to say that fawn/beige rats are on average more likley to not live as long as there none R.E.D. siblings. They are also more likley to suffer from excessive bleeding or lack of blood clotting which needs to be taken into account if you ever have surgery as they will be at a higher risk, a nick test to a nail or tail base can be carried out to help assess risk and take preventative measures if suregry is neccesary but it foes make that decision harder. I can't speak for every R.E.D. rat but we have noticed that those in our lines are more prone to things like zymbals gland tumours and other illnesses, though some seem fine. I also believe (based on some links between blood platelets, seratonin and the mechanisms of the digestive tract that i drew when i was admitedly very emotional over loosing sundrop) that there are some links between death of the very young (once weaning kicks in and they have to survive off real food) and the gene too. We dont loose many young rats after the first week in our lines, all 3 i can think of for the past 5 ish years have been beige or fawn. These have either been gradual wasiting away on hitting weaning age or more sudden with digestive issues in sundrops case. I wouldn't be surprised if it would slow down the healing of bumble foot, it would make sense, though sometimes its easier to see links where theres only coincidence as you want it to make sense.

Really you aren't going to know if your rat is a good example, so shows barely any health issues, or one who has a stronger expression of the problems. I do think some breeders over here have worked on it and its meant that there rats do a lot better despite the inherint problems so it can be improved by good selection. Those from a rescue/petshop type background are generally massively outcrossed so its a lottery, they could be great, they could suffer badly. I hope your little one is one of the tough ones.


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