# Pandora's fling.



## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

Hello People.
I am completely new to this and not great with this forum thing.

Anyway i have two female russian blue satin rex dumbo rats named Merrick & Pandora. Recently on a camping trip over the weekend my rats escaped the cage (the sneaky buggers got through the bars) I found both rats within 10mins of returning but Pandora had cuts on her back. The cuts healed fine but a day or so later i by chance spotted a rat run through my back room which at the minute is having work done on so the skirting is all off the wall, the rat run straight into the walls. I can only assume the wild rat entered through our dog flap whilst we were away.

It's been roughly 24 days since and 2 days ago Pandora gave birth to 9 pups! I've had rats before but never had a rat have babies. I'm really quite nervous, i've done tons of research (although a lot on the net seems to contradict itself). I've been told the babies will be fine and should be free of parasites.

I've practically over prepared for everything but any advice would be nice and has anyone had this occur with a wild rat?

Sorry this is such a long post. Many thanks (o:


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

maybe I'm missing something here...

when did the escape take place? 

It takes 21-23 days for gestation 

If you do have half wild pups these babies may not be as suitable for pets as your girl is because they can retain a bit of that wildness even though being born & raised in a domesticated environment... just passing this along in case you or anyone you know is planning on adopting them as forever pets. Just food for thought. I'm not saying it is impossible to keep them as pets, just don't expect them to behave or respond to you in the same way your other rats did.


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

well i wasn't sure exactly when they were concieved, i only knew that it happened the weekend we were away so i knew she was due this weekend gone. She had them 4.50pm Saturday.

I realise it's not an ideal situation and i never intended to breed my rats at all but it's happened and i'm willing to put the time and effort in. My partner and i have decided we'll keep two from the litter, maybe three as there's an odd amount of babies and i'd like to rehome them in twos. I already have a couple of takers and i make no secret that the father is wild and that they may still maintain some of their fathers traits which i am not aware of. As the're half wild i'll make extra effort to get them used to human contact and i still feel they'll make rewarding pets (o:

I'm going to clean the cage tonight and handle the babies for the first time, i'm also thinking of reintroducing her sister Merrick as she seems to be pining and after a short reunion yesterday i feel Pandora wants her around. I seperated Merrick when i saw that Pandora was in labour.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

do your research on wild babies & half wilds & be sure to forward the info to anyone who would keep them

good intention & good hearts can lead to one getting in well over there heads without good education

I really wish you all the best with your half-wilds

(I hope you know I'm not posting to discourage. I just want you to be sure you know what you are getting yourself into as well as what anyone else would be getting into)


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

I'm taking it all in as sound advice and i am grateful. I realise i've got a lot of work ahead. There's really no alternative other than to try my best to rehome them and to have a little smile about it. The rats left that i can't rehome i intend to keep myself and i've already ensured this won't happen again. On a lighter note, Pandora seems to be the model mum at the minute, very much attached to her nest and very tolerant of me around the nest.

In a way i find it beautiful that against the odds new life prevailed and i intend to make the most of the situation. I'm soaking up every piece of advice i can get so thank you.


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## Caity (Apr 1, 2008)

Mmmph...half wilds. So cute. The other day I saw some advertisement for one of those products that you plug in and it screeches ultrasonically to scare away rats. They showed a horde of brown rats but I just squealed because they showed them eating and making squinty "nom-nom" faces.

Maybe one day I will be fit to rescue one. But my domestics are already wild enough. :roll:

Good luck with your litter and keep us updated (with pics if you can...!)


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## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

These ultra sonic sounds will affect the domestic rats as well I am sure.


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=36278000

Not sure if this will work but that's the link to a short video i took of them last night. I handled them very briefly, obviosly with the blessing of mum. Pandora is so calm and i'm honoured she's fine with me near her babies! She had a brief reunion with Merrick her sis too and they were so excited to see each other. I hate keeping them apart but i don't want anything to go wrong.

Anyhoo enjoy the vid! and excuse my wittering in the background hehe. 
Any comments most welcome


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

awwww... sweet little babies


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

:lol: hehe, don't know if you noticed but there's one that moved really quickly compared tothe others, i was amazed, it's a right little feisty one! I attempted to set the nest up in a better cage but although Pandora let me pick them up before i could finish she started picking them back up and taking them back so i decided i'd leave them all where they are for the minute.

I'm not sure what to do about Merrick (Aunt), she's miserable on hjer own and the brief moments i've let her back with Pandora tehy both seem overjoyed to see each other but i'm worried about her attitude towards the babies and especially them being so dependant on their mother. I've read contradicting advice from everywhere.

Anyone else been in this situation with the pushed out Aunt?


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

I've had litters in my care where there was an Aunt present & I have seen plenty of cases where Mommy wanted no part of any other rats being in the cage with her even though she would enjoy a brief visit with a friend in neutral territory.

As for contradicting advice... eh, everyone has a story about their own experience & everyone is capable of regurgitating 3rd party info. Only you know your rats & only you will be able to determine what you should do regarding their living arrangements. 

All I can say as far as advice... supervise, supervise, supervise. Also keep in mind that the Mother's mood is subject to change without warning. She could just as easily lash out at her friend as she could you. Do not become too confident about her "allowing" you to handle the babies. You could actually get a kiss when you first reach in & then she could nail you with a vicious bite the very next moment. 

Well, that's about all I can say. You will need to decide what is best for you & your rats because no one knows your rats the way you do & no one is there to observe what takes place.


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

I see what you're saying (o: My feelings are to keep them separate for now and each night i have them out of their cage together. Pandora was all over Merrick grooming her etc but like you say their moods can turn instantly. I think i'll keep up the supervised visits till the babies are a bit more robust and not as squidgy hehe. I'm more concerned over Merrick trying to nurse the babies and starving them. If i wait till the babies are able to move about more and play then introduce Merrick.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

I had a litter last summer from a hairless female that I got for my younger daughter's 16th b-day. It was one of those BOGO bargins.. buy one rat get a whole litter free... yaaaahhhh

When I picked her up I picked up a second furred rat as a cagemate & un-birthday gift for my older daughter. They were great friends up until about 3 days before Fluffy had her babies. She enjoyed a few visits with Tipsy a few days after she had them but she would quickly return to the nursery, run back out to play, then dash back to the nursery. 

By the end of the 2nd week she had no problem with Tipsy coming in to take a peek at the squeaky new arrivals. By the third week Tipsy spent more 1 on 1 time with the babies than Mom did but we also had extenuating circumstances. True to things you may have read about hairless rats, Fluffy was not lactating & I had to take over feeding them at about 10 to 12 days. Fluffy still cared for them, cleaned them, help them in all the ways a Mother would, but she was unable to feed them. 

But Tipsy was an exceptional rat in her own right. She immediately accepted any new arrival that joined the community. Some females do, some females don't. You will most likely assure acceptance of any of the new ones you plan to keep if you allow extremely supervised visits from the Auntie. Just be careful that she doesn't make sport of terrorizing the little ones. 

Another example. Several years ago I took in some surrenders when the family found out that all three of the females they bought turned up pregnant. Two of the soon to be Mother's remained together & shared the task of raising their litters together but the 3rd wanted to be on her own. So there you see that even in a bonded group some may stay with a cage mate & some may wish to be on their own.

I think most people go by the rule of thumb to separate so that they can be sure that no harm comes to the babies by a non-mother. It's a good rule to follow, I'm not saying you shouldn't follow it... you just don't need to think you are wrong if you don't. Just be aware of the consequences if things go wrong.


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

) that settles my mind a lot, i sort of feel guilty because i have no reason to seperate them to begin with, only going off what i read and my own cautiousness. Merrick & Pandora are really close, and it seems to be upsetting Merrick quite a lot but going off what you've said it's probably for the best. I'll keep things how they are for now and see how i feel in a couple of weeks making sure i give Merrick plenty of visiting and play time.


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## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

Neverstrayed, those babies are soo cute, I can't wait to see what their personalities are like!

And btw I loooove your accent! ^_^


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

Thank you Ceiling of stars, don't think i've ever been complimented on my accent before *pleased*

Well i'm going to probably be a pest, documenting every little detail so i'll keep you posted.


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

Well Pandora's litter are 12 Days old today and i managed to get some shots last night. They're looking to be brown like their wild father but not sure how much they'll change as this will be their first coat. Pandora is a russian blue but it's looking unlikely. Some of the babes do have the crinkly whiskers so hopefully some will be rex furred. Also by looking at the ears they appear to be dumbo.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

With a half-wild litter, I'd assume you'd get all agouti and standard earred, unless dad managed to carry something awesome, which is theoretically possible.

The ears will get more apparent soon...

I know Pandora's a dumbo, but... well I suppose it's possible... maybe.


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

Either way i think they'll be a lovely bunch but some of the babies definately have the rex whiskers and some have straight whiskers so the males dominant genes failed on that account HAH! hehe. I read somewhere that you could tell if they were dumbo eared after 3 days old so wondered if anyone had any thoughts on these pics.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Rex is a dominant gene.  So if Mummy has rex, the babies will probably have some (within the laws of probablity, of course).

I think baby dumbo ears point down, baby standard ears point up.

Here are some pics...


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

Learn something every day (o: well looking at the ears they seem to be pointing up so most probably standard, no worries, they'll be loved all the same. Thanks for clearing that up for me Forensic.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

*shrug* They're still cutie-patooties, so what's it matter? :lol:


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

the gene for blue has to be on both sides to get blue & the only way to know blue from gray is to know the parents/grandparents since that gray-blue turns up & is often confused as being blue... from what I have been learning is if two blue cross & you get anything but blue then someone isn't really "blue".. I hear different things from different sources but this tidbit was from someone who exclusively breeds blues

as for dumbo ears... dumbo crossed with standard the ratio of dumbo is 25%

so you might just get a dumbo or two in the lot but since these are half-wilds... I dunno if that will apply since you can see a slight difference in the ears of wilds when compared to our standard top-eared domestics


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## clarry (May 19, 2008)

beautiful babies 
cant wait to see more pics


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## SamAnthrax (Jan 5, 2008)

They are adorable I'm really excited to see more pictures!


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

Today the babies were 2 weeks, 1 day old and they opened their eyes! I'll get some pics up asap )


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

I can't wait for more pics  They are the cutest things ever


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

Although they've all got their eyes open they decided to close them as soon as i got the camera out hehe.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Is that a foot I see in the middle of the pic?? Lol

Very very cute. I am just so tempted to come steal them all!  watch out


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

hehe Like i said Ration in 4 weeks if you could get up this end you'd be welcome to a couple  

They were so cute last night i made up some porridge using baby soya formula milk and mum and babies loved it. Also one of the feisty ones managed to grab hold of some dried pasta from mum and set to trying to eat it but just ended up wandering around with it hehe


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## CeilingofStars (Apr 21, 2008)

AWWW how adorable! I'm just itching to know how their little personalities will all turn out!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Since she is socializing them from birth, they have a really good chance at making adoptable pets. Mine weren't socialized until 4 weeks and by then they were "wild" 










A few weeks later with no handling


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

They are still nervous of me but not too bad, just jumpy but i'm told that's to be expected. They approach my hand when i put it in the the cage and i've been picking them up whether they like it or not. The above pics look very much like my lot except 7 of mine are rex and the other 2 smoothies hehe


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## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

Recent pics?


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Jumpy is normal .. that would be their instincts. The best thing to do is start force socialising them like you are doing .. left to their own devices their wild instincts will take over and they are more likely to fear you than trust you 

Good luck! Sounds like you're doing everything right


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## SamAnthrax (Jan 5, 2008)

I want to see more pictures! I wish I could have one. 

Pictures!


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

OKAY OKAY PEOPLE! hehe i'll dig some out tonight, i've got a vid i'll upload of them pestering Aunty Merrick. This weekend we're putting mesh round one of the big cages we have (The cage mom escaped from) need to get them in something bigger. They have started chasing my hand too.


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## SamAnthrax (Jan 5, 2008)

Awww that's so cute. I'm so excited. I wouldn't want to deal with the rats around here. 

Chicago is known for their huge city rats! They're so big and disgusting looking. Now when I say big, I mean HUGE!!! like... their bodies are as big as your forearm, well bigger. Lets just say in my neighborhood you don't see them much but when I went to sleepover at my friends house after a show it was super late

and we were walking down the street and this humongous thing ran past into the bushes and I was like oh mustve been a opossum, and he was like nope that was definately a rat. I was awe struck.


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

It's official 5 boys and 4 girls. There's one little boy who is one of the two smoothies that's a charactor and keeps trying to jump out of the play box i have made for them, even when i put my hand there he jumps on my hand! Not sure if it's because they're half wild but he can fair jump and his feet are nearly as big as moms at 3.5 weeks! I def get the pics up sometime this week.


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## Kat-RDPY (Jul 18, 2008)

Hi Congratulations on your new 1/2 wild Norwegian ratties!

I don't usually get involved in forums but a fellow breeder friend brought this particular one to my attention and I've decided to respond. I'm hoping the information I provide will be informative and helpful to you.

My name is Kat and I own a rattery in Northern Michigan, Rat Dippity Rattery. I specialize in pet rat behavior. I got my start in breeding by rescueing two wild Norwegian ratties and raising them by hand with an eye dropper and puppy replacement formula.

I can tell you that if properly socialized your new little fur kids will indeed make great pets and friends, and will actually help domesticated lines with health and type problems. 

Wild rats are much able to handle myco infections better than domesticated ones and don't tend to be prone to mammary tumors. Their eyes are bigger and wide set, their noses are shorter and turned up. They are indeed beautiful, natural creatures as nature intended them to be without us humans genetically goofing things up. 

Most domesticated lines have lost a lot in the way of type, with noses becoming too long and creating "overbites" and the eyes have gotten smaller and mammary tumors are common because most domesticated lines come from laboratory animals generations back where they were researching tumors in people and breed them to get them. The genetics of the wild Norwegian can straighten out a lot of errors that has happened to the species improving it. Remember all domesticated rats originated from wild Norwegians generations back.

Ok, let's look at the temperament of the wild Norwegian babies. Here's what you can expect.

Their sense of hearing is extremely enhanced and their nature to hide is very strong. Therefore they will be timid and shy, liking to feel safe and liking hiding in dark secure areas. They need to be kept away from other pets, loud noises and music. 

Their ability to bond with one particular owner is very strong. They are one person ratties, very loyal to one particular person. Once a bond of trust is formed you will find them very "clingy" to the person they love.

The socialization process is very important to assure a good pet. Handling them often is very important. Letting them smell your hand and nibble on your fingers so they recongize your scent is important.

For best results put on a couple layers of clothing when handling them and tuck them inside between the layers up on your shoulder. They need to feel safe and warm and hidden.

Wear these same clothes over and over when handling them, without washing them. Once they smell their scents on the clothing this will help relax them. I know this may sound gross to some people but it's important to establish "trust" and familarity with them. When they smell themselves on you they think you are one of them. By the time they are eight weeks old they will have formed their opinions about you, humans and the world around them, so up until then it's very important to make the best impression you can to assure a lifetime of trust. (Never, ever pick them up by their tails!)

Being calm and patient is very important with them. Warning: they are escape artists! You will need to put them in something they can't chew through or climb out of or squeeze through. You can read about the raising of Hurkie and Ruggie on my web site and all I went through to keep them contained, lol. :>)

A daily routine is very important to this socialization process also. The same time each day, do the exact same routine, pick them up, handle them, talk in a soft soothing voice, tuck them into the layers of your clothes and sit quitely with them. Provide them a favorite treat when they are with you, a multigrain cracker, or piece of banana. Never give them this favorite treat except when they are with you. 

Your wild babies will probably never be climbing on the cage bars wanting out. They will want to stay inside the cage and be hidden because it will feel safe in there to them, but if you establish a routine, they will not resist you picking them up out of the cage to be with you, they just won't greet you at the door, lol. 

You want to establish a fun safe routine for them. Something they look forward to.

Your wild norwegians will make great pets, they will just be more cautious, and jumpy to new situations and noises. That's why peace and quiet and dark places to hide and a favorite treat and routine can help to bond them closely.

If you adopt out your babies to others, they must follow the same routine you've established in order to create a new bond and trust. Don't adopt them to anyone with cats or dogs unless you are assured the rats will never see or hear these animals. They will always smell them and think of them as pedators no matter how nice the animal is, the rats can't tell the difference between a nice cat or dog or an enemy. It sees all of them all as enemies. You must see the world through their eyes to make a connection with them, or they will always be on edge.

Good luck with your new pets and if I can assist you further don't hesitate to contact me through my rattery web site. I won't be checking this forum for responses, I just wanted share my knowledge and to help if I could.

Kat


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## tdnrat (Jul 23, 2008)

Ok, I'm confused.
You went on a camping trip, and left your rats for a mtter of days? They aren't just suddenly able to get out of the bars, you must have known the cage was unsafe. You haven't even mention a rat sitter, so as far as I know there wasn't one involved? (A heck bad of one if so.)
And also, you didn't even fill in the skirtin? I also find it very odd how you return, both female rats there, you see the wild rat, and the other isn't pregnant. 
Personally, I don't know what has happend, but what you are saying doesn't sound at all true. :roll:


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## Bojan (Jul 24, 2008)

Are these the same babies that are being advetised for free on Preloved?
http://www.preloved.co.uk/fuseaction-adverts.showadvert/index-1031483038/b400b37c.html


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## tdnrat (Jul 23, 2008)

Bojan said:


> Are these the same babies that are being advetised for free on Preloved?
> http://www.preloved.co.uk/fuseaction-adverts.showadvert/index-1031483038/b400b37c.html


Yep, it's the same babies.


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## Bojan (Jul 24, 2008)

I thought so. Have you seen the thread 3.5 weeks. Preparing. It is shocking and irresponsible.


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## tdnrat (Jul 23, 2008)

I have seen this thread... & imo, yes it is.
But maybe it isn't. Maybe we are being silly. I am sure that she does love these rats,
and I'm sure she will find great homes for them. 
 Here's hoping there is no friction caused,
sorry just stating mo!


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Bojan and tdnrat, perhaps if you have joint issues regarding a members ethics you should take said issues to PM instead of keeping it public.

Personally though, I think the situation has been handled as well as can be. You are entitled to your own opinions of course, but lets keep it pleasant at least.


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

tdnrat said:


> Ok, I'm confused.
> You went on a camping trip, and left your rats for a mtter of days? They aren't just suddenly able to get out of the bars, you must have known the cage was unsafe. You haven't even mention a rat sitter, so as far as I know there wasn't one involved? (A heck bad of one if so.)
> And also, you didn't even fill in the skirtin? I also find it very odd how you return, both female rats there, you see the wild rat, and the other isn't pregnant.
> Personally, I don't know what has happend, but what you are saying doesn't sound at all true. :roll:


I admit it's a strange thing to happen but what do you think i did! caught a wild rat and bred it with mine! 

We have a mortgage a life, things are expensive, our skirting is off because we are plastering our walls, the skirting isn't back on yet because we're still in the process of finishing but things get in the way. Money issues.

I'm not the only one that has had a rat squeeze through the bars of the cage, my mistake and i'm handling the best i can.

Rat sitter. The camping trip Friday night 9pm and we returned dinner time Sunday. Two Bowls of food (including plenty of fresh fruit) a large water bottle full to the top. We go camping once maybe twice a year and we did ask a friend if she could pop in and check on them but she didn't have the time.

I can't explain why Merrick wasn't impregnated too. 

I don't come on this forum to be told i'm lying when i'm being perfectly honest in order to get the best advice possible. You haven't give me any advice only critisized me and called me a liar. This forum prides itself on being friendly and here for when people need it and it should but with people like you scaring people off, i personally think you should be banned for giving it a bad name.


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## tdnrat (Jul 23, 2008)

You know what, I totally agree with you.
I was just silly last night, yesterday, and I hope you accept this.
That I am very, very, sorry.
I do feel bad about saying you are a liar. I don't really think you are, but I'm short of money too hun, & so, I know totally how it feels.
Ratation (spelling.very sry), I am very sorry about this whole situation.
I can assure you that will certainly not happen again.
How are the babies doing? 
And I've just though that she is doing Preloved for a reason. Any responsiable rat seller would have backup homes lined up. So if her friends fall thro, she has more options.
So I do apologise, I have been very rude. Bojan I feel that you should apologise too.


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## Bojan (Jul 24, 2008)

Indeed I will not apologise, I have expressed my opinion, I have not been rude or abusive. I still maintain that anybody who really wants the best for these babies would find a suitable rescue if they can't keep them themself-not advertise on a website such as Preloved.

To tdnrat perhaps you were a bit rude but we are all entitled to express our opinions, surely that is the point of a forum. All you have done is go back on everything you've said to keep everyone happy.


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

I accept your apology and can i say that it's very grown up of you to apologise. The preloved thing was a bad idea on my part because i'm not desperate to rehome them as such because i'll just keep them all anyway. 

Hey we all have our bad days


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## tdnrat (Jul 23, 2008)

Thanks. 
Yep, lately I've had a lot of them! Hehe x
Imo, we should just ignore Bojan... :?

And about preloved, I do think that you should leave the ad, it gives backup owners. 

Bojan I'm not keeping everybody happi, 
It's simply that I was wrong.


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

I know that people on this forum care for their rats a lot and with that comes passion. It just shows that you're concerned for their welfare and sometimes when you're passionate about something and there's something you don't like in the equation then bang it turns to anger  i know where you're coming from completely. I can't see how you';ve gone back on what you've said. You asked questions (in a somewhat sharp way), i answered them and i think that's solve the dispute.

Bojan, in the thread 3.5 weeks you pounced without knowing the full details. I know these babies will need special care, the person needs to be well informed and i have printed off information for anyone wishing to adopt. All they'll be is a little etchy and their temperment as yet is a mystery but as i've said, anyone wishing to adopt will always have the option to return the rats. I've said my preloved advert was a mistake, i apologise. In my opinion you need to stand down a little, the advice never said that these babies cannot be rehomed. Maybe you should think about the way you come across. You've called me irresponsible, i'd be a lot more irresponsible if i was to let people like you scare me off a forum don't you think?

I feel the only irresponsible thing i did was to advertise on preloved, i've learnt my lesson and i have taken the advert down because i wouldn't be confident enough to be sure that they are going to good homes. If you feel anything else i may be doing is irresponsible, let me know.

I'm not perfect and i will make mistakes but i will take advice and rectify areas where i'm going wrong, so give me advice, speak to me directly.


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## Gobo (Mar 6, 2008)

Neverstrayed said:


> If you feel anything else i may be doing is irresponsible, let me know.
> I'm not perfect and i will make mistakes but i will take advice and rectify areas where i'm going wrong, so give me advice, speak to me directly.


Neverstrayed, I think that was very well said. You are doing your best with this situation and learning, and thats really all anyone can ask for


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

Thanks Gobo, I'm having a pretty bad day out of it all, mainly on another forum.


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## tdnrat (Jul 23, 2008)

Not to be rude, but maybe going on about another forum should be in pm... :?


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## Neverstrayed (Jun 16, 2008)

Okay sorry didn't know that would be out of line


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

It's not, really. You didn't mention the forum at all..

I've sent you a PM, btw


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## lovinmyworm (Feb 18, 2008)

Seriously people, accidents happen. This is NOT the first litter of 1/2 wild babies I've ever heard of. This person is trying to find homes for these babies, she's informing people of the fact that they are 1/2 wild, she's trying to find good homes, where is the problem? I didn't see the add on the preloved site, I've never even heard of it before. Perhaps this poster didn't realize what a bad place it is, and even so do you honestly believe that she would sell off her babies as snake food or let them be anything but pets? She has come here for support, for advice on what to do about the babies, how to socialized them, why would she ask how to care for them if she didn't care about them? Why would she take the time to socialize them? 

People need to chill out!! 

tdnrat, I've seen several of your postings that have come off rude and mean. Perhaps you should be a bit more understanding instead of jumping all over other posters? Things aren't always conveyed over a forum as it would in real life. Emotions can't be easily read and there is no body language to interpret if someone is being mean and hurtful verses just joking or being concerned.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Its always best to ask questions without pointing the fingers right away...we don't see body language or hear tone all we see are words and we may miss something.

Btw for that Moncton Rat Rescue Effort/Train, I was considering posting on Craigslist and Kijiji about it to find adopters but we never needed to. People such as us often go looking for those lost/homeless/neglected ratties on these places and you might luck out.  Neverstrayed knows she needs to screen adopters which you have to do not matter where the adopter is from unless you know them very very well in real life.


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