# Adopting Lab Rats



## lost_whisper (Nov 11, 2014)

I was supposed to pick up 2 lab rats last week but I had to postpone it since 2 of my cats had signs of an intoxication, so I've been taking them to the vet and watching over them 24 hs. a day. Now they are better so hopefully on Thursday I'll have the babies.

So far, I know that since lab rats most likely don't carry the myco, they could easily -and most likely will- get sick from it upon introductions with Sake, my regular fancy/feeder rat (in here there are no distinctions, all rats are equally neglected from breeders and owners), which I believe I'm prepared for.

The rats I'm adopting are from a Wistar strain and according to what I've read, they are usually pretty active and are avid explorers so I guessI will have to give them lots of toys and free-range time. 

Later I could adopt a Sprague Dawley or two, but for that I'm going to need more space. I get they are more docile and cuddly, but that's pretty much everything I've read.

Anyone that's ever adopted a lab rat? I would like to know if they really got sick and how bad it was. I have a vet specialized in rodents 2 blocks away from home, lots of antibiotics and lots of experience nursing animals because I often rescue any animal in need, but the more information I get, the better. 

And I would really appreciate if any of you know where I can find more info about these strains and what are they commonly used for (poor babies ) and everything you might add like common illnesses, life-span (if it differs from regular fancy), etc. The lab people didn't give me much info and I felt I couldn't ask so much.???

As soon as I have them, I'll be posting how everything goes.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

As best I recall these are both old and established lab strains. I expose our rats to the great outdoors as young as possible and they just about never get sick... I think there's something in nature that just helps to keep rats healthy. So I can't really give you advise about URIs etc. I just never see them. 

The only real issue with lab rats is that they are usually not socialized and aren't accustomed to human interaction and affection. Socializing older lab rats can be a real nightmare. Spend some time with the rats handling them before adopting them. There is nothing wrong with their personalities but after months of neglect, isolation and sometimes abuse they can get really screwed up.

I know people who adopted some very sweet x-lab rats, and I know folks that shed a lot of blood and tears trying to socialize retired lab rats. Don't get yourself into trouble, adopting animals you can't handle doesn't do anyone any good.

Best luck.


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## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

Rat Daddy said:


> The only real issue with lab rats is that they are usually not socialized and aren't accustomed to human interaction and affection. Socializing older lab rats can be a real nightmare. Spend some time with the rats handling them before adopting them. There is nothing wrong with their personalities but after months of neglect, isolation and sometimes abuse they can get really screwed up.


I'm sorry, but I really have a problem with this statement. Working with laboratory animals and around other scientists who are also working with them, I can definitely say that an abused or neglected animal is probably very rare (considering we actually have a million policies in place to prevent any type of abuse or neglect). The rats and mice I work with are actually more friendly than half of the rats that I've taken in that were pets in other homes. It's true that probably not all scientists care as much about their animals as I do, but you cannot assume that you're going to get some royally ****** up animal just because it came from a laboratory. It's almost offensive really. 

To answer some of OPs questions...Wistar and Sprague Dawleys are typically used for behavior, so I would definitely expect a very curious rat (assuming they're not too old). I tend to see male Sprague Dawleys as more active than your typical male fancy which is probably due to behavior exercises and training. I do not have any experience with bringing laboratory animals home, but I would definitely expect some minor illness since myco probably isn't the only thing floating around in your current rat. Myco does happen in the laboratory setting, especially if the animals aren't being monitored for it (which they probably wouldn't be if used strictly for behavior). Finally, I think it's great that you're adopting laboratory animals!

On a side note: If you can get any information about what the rats were used for that'd really be helpful. You may be getting a rat that loves to run on a wheel, find hidden treats or even swim!


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## lost_whisper (Nov 11, 2014)

They are actually babies that can't be used in the next experiments so they either put them to sleep or adopt them out. Not sure why they can't be used; I once adopted a transgenic male mouse and I'm not sure what different genes he had but he was healthy though not extremely healthy and didn't glow in the dark or anything big that I could notice, so I'm guessing it has to do with something like this. The rats I'm getting are around 6 weeks right now or maybe 7, so I don't think they will be too hard to socialise. I hope.

My main concern now is that the girl who is finding homes for the lab rats is now asking me to take 3 instead of two. I actually asked for a single one in the first place to keep company to the lonely rat I adopted some weeks ago. She is telling me that the other one is the last one she needs to adopt out and she can't find anyone to take her that already has rats, so if I don't take her the people at the lab will put her down, which I think it's true because she had already told me that I only have a few more days to get them before they cease to exist 

My cage is fairly enough for three, and I accepted taking two instead of one in the first place because her adopting policy is that no one adopts less than a pair, which is fine by me (so in the event of a death I don't end up with a lonely rat again). I even told her that my cage was suitable for just two adult rats and she said something like "where you can fit two rats you can put three", which now turned to "where you put three you squish four" I guess. I do plan on taking the rats several hours a night to play, but even that way I'm concerned that 4 rats is too much for that space. But letting the last rat die when 14 others found loving homes isn't fair! I guess now I'm going to knock doors in my neighbourhood to ask for bird cages to attach to my current cage in hopes of making it somewhat bigger.

Rat Daddy I really want to take my rat(s) out to play, but I'm not sure how to start actually. The rat I currently have is 4 or 5 moths old and I got her a little more than 2 weeks ago, so I don't know if it's worth a try or if it's too risky. I don't think she's scared of the outdoors and she comes when I call her (not every time). I am not sure how to start, mostly because she's already a grown rat. I guess I'll wait until we trust each other a little more.


Oh my! Why can't I keep it short??


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## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

That's interesting; possibly a hetero for a specific gene they need though typically heteros are used as controls. I don't have experience with a lab that does this type of adoption, but either way it's unimportant. The fact that they're young is great since it means better bonding to you. Plus since they're young and small you'll have a bit of time to find more space for them.


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## lost_whisper (Nov 11, 2014)

kksrats said:


> I'm sorry, but I really have a problem with this statement. Working with laboratory animals and around other scientists who are also working with them, I can definitely say that an abused or neglected animal is probably very rare (considering we actually have a million policies in place to prevent any type of abuse or neglect). The rats and mice I work with are actually more friendly than half of the rats that I've taken in that were pets in other homes. It's true that probably not all scientists care as much about their animals as I do, but you cannot assume that you're going to get some royally ****** up animal just because it came from a laboratory. It's almost offensive really.
> 
> To answer some of OPs questions...Wistar and Sprague Dawleys are typically used for behavior, so I would definitely expect a very curious rat (assuming they're not too old). I tend to see male Sprague Dawleys as more active than your typical male fancy which is probably due to behavior exercises and training. I do not have any experience with bringing laboratory animals home, but I would definitely expect some minor illness since myco probably isn't the only thing floating around in your current rat. Myco does happen in the laboratory setting, especially if the animals aren't being monitored for it (which they probably wouldn't be if used strictly for behavior). Finally, I think it's great that you're adopting laboratory animals!
> 
> On a side note: If you can get any information about what the rats were used for that'd really be helpful. You may be getting a rat that loves to run on a wheel, find hidden treats or even swim!


Thank you! I hadn't read your comment for some reason ?????? 

It was actually not disclosed to me what the rats were used for but the lab is from the university of medicine and these are babies that are not gonna be used. I am not sure how socialised they are but the girl who's adopting them out assured me that they are all easy-going and tame. We'll see about that hehe.

Everyday I'm getting a bit more nervous about the possible infection they could get upon introductions, but I've read pretty much everything about rat treatment so if the vet I plan on taking them doesn't really know what to do (he says he treats rats but rats are not usual pets around) I'll make sure he gives them the correct dosages of the right meds for the right amount of time. 

I will try to insist this person so she tells me at least one bit about these rats apart from their strain so I know what to expect. She's getting to like me while we talk on Facebook so I'll try to get in a deeper conversation with her when I pick the ratties up. 

I am now trying to find a good wheel for the girls, but so far the only ones they sell in here are for hamsters and rather small, and I already have one. I might put it in their cage when they get home until they outgrow it I think.

I love being able to give these ratties a loving home. It's only the second time I adopt lab animals but now that I found this girl I will have rats as long as she rescues them. And it's actually the only rat rescue I found all across my country, so it seems that in the future all my rats will be pews hehe.


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## lost_whisper (Nov 11, 2014)

kksrats said:


> That's interesting; possibly a hetero for a specific gene they need though typically heteros are used as controls. I don't have experience with a lab that does this type of adoption, but either way it's unimportant. The fact that they're young is great since it means better bonding to you. Plus since they're young and small you'll have a bit of time to find more space for them.


I am in Argentina, so maybe we have different protocols? I am super amused by the fact that they are babies. It's not that they are better than my grown girl but now I want to experience having young brats too. I just only hope their health isn't too bad. In fact, I hope they have super genes and live forever ;D I'll be happy if they don't get too sick when they get home.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

No slight was intended to labs or their staff that properly socialize their rats and take care of them properly.

But this isn't actually relevant to the OP, pups from anywhere are all usually pretty easy to socialize.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I wrote a post a while back about training shoulder rats and outdoor activities. Basically you find a very safe place where your rats can't get lost or killed and train and test them there... Most rats won't be capable of becoming true shoulder rats, but they can still have a little fun at the safe site and they can sniff and root around a bit in the dirt and grass and pick up some beneficial bacteria from the experience. I can't prove anything, but I suspect that rats didn't evolve in hot houses and that they benefit from a bit of exposure to the elements. My mom always believed that in order for kids to grow up healthy they needed to get dirty sometimes... I know it's decades later, but I now suspect there may be a little bit of truth in it especially when it comes to rats. I won't defend the point as there's no good science I know of behind it, but I've never seen a URI or other bacterial infection among my shoulder rats and my rats have been outdoors in 17 degrees F, explored toxic waste sites, marshes, woods and urban areas. The more they explore around and nibble the disgusting things they find the more bullet proof they seem to get... Rats also seem to pick out tiny plants from between the blades of grass to eat and dig up certain tiny roots, they may instinctively know something we don't in terms of what's good for them.... again it's just something I've seen.


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## Mojojuju (Nov 15, 2014)

Is it true that some of these strains of rats are almost genetically identical like clones?

I'd be curious to know. I had a scientist who worked with rats come in to my class to talk about rats when we got ours, and she said that the line she worked with (she worked on exercising them on treadmills!) were basically clones. 

Which I thought was awesome!


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## LilCritter (Feb 25, 2014)

Rats don't react to inbreeding like most other species. It's one of the reasons why they are used in lab studies; it gets rid of genetic variance as a confounding factor. You can get rats that are 99% genetically identical.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Yup, certain strains are practically identical genetically. Which is both good and bad. Animals with very homogeneous genetics are usually very well suited for their environments but are poor at adapting to change.


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## Kuildeous (Dec 26, 2014)

I brought this topic up to my wife, and we may consider lab adoptions in the future (our three are plenty for us right now). But my wife isn't a fan of PEWs. Are all lab rats PEWs? I would think there would be other color variation, but obviously color is not usually a requirement for experiments.


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## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

Kuildeous said:


> I brought this topic up to my wife, and we may consider lab adoptions in the future (our three are plenty for us right now). But my wife isn't a fan of PEWs. Are all lab rats PEWs? I would think there would be other color variation, but obviously color is not usually a requirement for experiments.


Not all lab rats are white, but that's all I've seen that are not genetically altered (Sprague Dawley and Wistar). It would really depend on what the lab is studying; we have some black hooded rats, but they would not be able to be adopted out even if our laboratory had an adoption plan.


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## lost_whisper (Nov 11, 2014)

Haha, they are most definitely not clones, but for some reason this litter is all females! (Do they decide that? I guess they should pick the sperm with Y chromosomes2stajtttttttttttttttttttttttttttjtttttttttttttttttttttttttttb) Never mind, Sake doesn't want me to discuss this 

I've been really busy with one of my sick kitties but he's doing better and started to eat today almost a week after he got the intoxication! He is starting to cuddle and meow and purr and is being quite himself again. That's a relief, because I didn't want him to be put an iv catheter again because he really suffers it. Now that he's better I'll be finally picking up the little PEWs tomorrow, and I'm really really excited about it! In this lab they only use Wistar and Sprague-Dawley PEWs, but I've seen that in other places the rats are black hoodeds like kksrats said.

Sake is improving a lot socially and became good friends with my dog Satia, who was previously terrified of her. Right now they are playing a lot, they are so cute toghether. I've been also taking her out for short walks for the past two days and she's doing great. She's more playful, calm and cuddly, so I think she will do great with the lab rats once I'm able to introduce them. I really hope they all get along!


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## lost_whisper (Nov 11, 2014)

I HAVE THE RATS!!!

How big are 7-week female pups supposed to be?

They have weigh a little more than 100 grams, they look somewhat like babies, but they are not really small! I'm guessing that despite what I was told they are a little more than 8 weeks, but even if they were 3 months old I wouldn't really care.They do fine around me and they definitely behave like babies since they love to destroy stuff but they are still a little jumpy when I try to grab them.
They are smelly! I want to give them a bath. They look really healthy, but were kept in pine shavings in metal crates the size of shoe boxes  I thought labs were a little better with their animals... 
Also their tails are a bit shorter and fatter than Sake's. I will try to upload the awful pictures I took with my phone as soon as I find the cable, but my cellphone is awful anyways so maybe tomorrow I'll take nice pictures of them with my boyfriend's camera.


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

They are probably too small/young to bathe, but you might wipe them with baby wipes for the odor, and of course a clean cage will make a world of difference. I'm no expert, but there are some rat growth charts on the internet. 

I can't comment on the conditions they were kept in. I have no experience with labs, and only one experience with a feeder breeder who kept his litters and mothers in a similar situation to that, but the other rats were in a great cage set up with climbing branches, hammocks and toys.


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## lost_whisper (Nov 11, 2014)

raindear said:


> They are probably too small/young to bathe, but you might wipe them with baby wipes for the odor, and of course a clean cage will make a world of difference. I'm no expert, but there are some rat growth charts on the internet.
> 
> I can't comment on the conditions they were kept in. I have no experience with labs, and only one experience with a feeder breeder who kept his litters and mothers in a similar situation to that, but the other rats were in a great cage set up with climbing branches, hammocks and toys.


Yeah, they might be too young for a bath and the weather is just too cold to give them a bath any way, so I just decided to put up with it and wait until they clean the stench themselves. They are already smelling a lot better since I put them in the clean cage with comfy fabric and corn cob in the litters (this is the most rat-friendlier bedding that I can pay for atm, but the one I bought is supposed to be organic and dust-free). They seem to be really happy and are actually using the litters instead of peeing and pooing all over themselves and the shelves! I put also a lot of cardboard boxes, nesting material, hammocks and ropes and they checked everything right away. I'm going to need a wheel to see if they like it, but I ran out of money already 

Sadly here in Argentina nobody cares for rats except for a few rat lovers where I include myself(and I've had rats for only 3 weeks). What's more, I've seen that even rat lovers don't have much clue of proper care for their rats and it's very very sad. I am in the process of starting an online community to help people and their rats in my country because I can't stand it any more and I understand that not everyone speaks English and not everything we see in the Internet is available in our country.

I already took them out quite a few times to pet them one by one and they are doing great. The one that would scream when picked up was the first one to brux as I petted her. 

I think with some love and attention they will be great companions!


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

Sounds like you are off to a great start.


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## lost_whisper (Nov 11, 2014)

raindear said:


> Sounds like you are off to a great start.


In fact, yes! Now all my girls are mostly litter trained and one of them is absolutely in love with me and lets me scratch her all over and give her lots of kisses on her belly and loves to sleep in my clothes for hours. The other two are obsessed with treats and can't stay still for a second, but they are very curious about me and come to the door of their cage running whenever I call them. The only thing that worries me a little is that Pelusa, the smaller girl and the one in love with me, actually sleeps by herself everyday at the bottom of the cage, but she doesn't have any signs of respiratory distress, eats and drinks fine and does play with the rest of the mischief some time every day. She seems overall in excellent condition so maybe she's just lazy and likes people better and now that I come to think of it she's been the most calm since I got them and didn't hang out with her sisters a lot.

Now that they are completely ok with me I will start to teach them tricks. They still don't know their names, mostly because I had a hard time telling them apart the last days (except for Pelusa, obviously).

Any advice or tips on training them?


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## lost_whisper (Nov 11, 2014)

Pelusa is sleeping with the other girls again and has grown to be almost as big as Appa and Pinky but a little lighter in weight. I realised that Pinky is almost completely blind but too sensitive to light, so I make sure that the part of the cage where they nest is rather dark. Appa is getting a little fat but I think it's nothing serious, I'm just not used to having such a large rat since Sake(the feeder rat) is really lean weighting only 200g but I can't feel bones poking out or anything wrong so I came to the conclusion that she is just a bit small. 
All three lab girls are doing great and came to love me a lot and go crazy when I call them. Whenever I open the door of their cage they start crawling on my clothes and they even kiss my lips when I am close enough. They are definitely jumpy around other people or when they hear sudden noises but apart from that they are completely tame. They even like me to pet them but won't stay still a lot of time, they are always on the move. I love them so much I'm glad I took all three in. The cage is definitely a little small but I take them out to play as much as I can (even though Pinky is a pain in the rear end to find when it's time to go back to the cage) and as soon as I get a a job and money I'll make them the biggest cage I can.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I love a story with a happy beginning.


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