# DANG IT!!!



## 2boysloose

I NEED TO VENT, HOW SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST SO CARELESS!
All right, well everybody must remember how a few days ago, I got two brand new, precious baby girls. They are so tiny! 
Anyways, it all began at Petco, when I first held Stitch. She was a lovely shy little girl, so I decided to bring her home. Next I held a precious little albino girl, and she was a cutie, just bruxing and licking my hand all over. 
So I decided to get her to, but with a quick look behind the tale....I realized it wasn't a she it was a HE!!!! I was so angry (disguised it quite well though), so we gave him to the lady, and I strongly corrected her and she put him in with the other males. Then I quickly picked up the other albino (yes this one was a girl) and loved her, so then I finally took the girls home. SO NOW I MIGHT HAVE TWO PREGNANT 7-8 WEEK OLD GIRLS!!!! I AM SO P.O.'D! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: 
My mom and dad and I talked things over, and we all agreed that if the girls are pregnant, then what comes, comes, and we will have to line up many new homes. 
Any advice, or suggestions (yes I will take it, lol)? The male was in with them for a couple hours, so is it possible that he didn't mate with them, and nothin' happened? *crosses fingers*
HELP!


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## Forensic

Considering it's petco, there's also the chance that they are too young (my boys from petco were 4-5 weeks, max...)

Can you weigh them daily?


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## 2boysloose

What kind of scale? I have one in my bathroom, but some how I get the feeling that wont work, lol.


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## lovinmyworm

Crossing fingers, toes, eyes, arms, ect are all probably a good idea. It takes literally 2 seconds for them to mate. It is possible they are pregnant, but I have heard in the past of males being with females for a bit and no matting happend. 

Next time if you find a boy mixed with the girls, don't buy the girls. This will save alot of time. In the meantime you will need to do tons of reasearch just in case one is pregnant so you know what to expect. You will need to figure out a nursery cage setup for them and look for signs of pregnancy. The first things people notice only happens a couple days before they pop so thinking through things first is a good idea. 

First signs are typically nipple showing, gaining weight, getting agressive towards you and their cagemates, and building a nest. IF they start to do any of these things they need seperated from eachother immediatly.


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## lovinmyworm

As for a scale, a kitchen scale that weighs food or a postal scale works well.


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## 2boysloose

What sort of nursery cage? Aquarium? (Aren't those bad???)
Are young rattie moms typically bad moms?

Thanks for the scale stuff, I'll weigh them in a second, if we have that kinda scale....*looks around*


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## lovinmyworm

If you start looking around the board you will see tons of posts. I recomend spending some time reading the threads here. An aquarium will work just fine. However realize that you will have to clean it out alot (not taking her nest apart) to make sure her and the babies are healthy! 

Young rats don't generally do to well. From what I have read there is a 50/50 shot she will do ok. She will either be super mom or totally ignore them and leave them to die. What is sad is that there isn't much you can do if she just leaves them. Nursing them yourself from a young age won't work because first you don't have time, and secondly it just really doesn't work. I don't know anyone who nurses baby rats from birth that's rats survived afterwards. 

After you wiegh them, mark their weight and the time you weighed them down. Tomorrow you will do the same thing. You will be able to post back here with those and people will be able to help you determine if they are just growing because they are young or if they are possibly pregnant. 

This is so sad to say, but honestly I hope petco did their typical "way too young rats" thing so these girls couldn't have gotten pregnant. Do you have pictures of your rats? This might help determine their age.


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## A1APassion

mark the calendar
Sept 16


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## julztoni97

It is possible they are not pregnant because they may be young. I took in a young hairless that was housed with 2 males. I just assumed that we would have babies and began a count down. 3 weeks came and went without any babies! Yay! 

She had been housed with them for over 2 weeks. She is only about 3 months old now. So she was about 6-8 weeks when I got her. So, there is hope for them.

Good Luck!


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## 2boysloose

I already had marked the calander September 16 just incase, haha.
I am purdy sure they are about 8 weeks old or so. 
I hope that if they are preggers, that they are super moms so that I don't have to sit and watch all the bubs die. 
My hamster was only about 6 weeks when she had two litters because of the stupid petstore guy "accidentaly" selling us a boy and a girl. We had 17 babies.


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## 2boysloose

You wanna know what I wish for??? I wish that they had rat pee sticks (pregnancy tests) so I could just know already! lol.


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## lovinmyworm

And then what, chase the rat around with the stick... haha that would be funny though!


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## 2boysloose

Yeah, probably! haha


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## 2boysloose

Will younger and smaller females generally produce smaller litters of bubs? 
I hope so.....


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## SamAnthrax

I had three really young babies and they had

four, six, and eight.


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## Forensic

Generally, yes, slightly smaller litters... or smaller bubs and the same number. 8O 

Any pictures of your girls?


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## 2boysloose

Yes, I just now took some. But they are to big, so I'll see if I can post 'em soon (my mom has to make them smaller). Hold on a sec, I'll see if I can get her to......


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## 2boysloose

Alright, I got some pics of the girls in the meet my rat section. (Crappy pics by the way)


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## A1APassion

it would be rather helpful if you placed pictures & updates about this ongoing situation in one thread so that people can track it easily

when info is scattered all over the forum in multiple threads too much is lost & the same questions are often asked & answered multiple times


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## Forensic

Here's the pics...
http://s425.photobucket.com/albums/pp336/jclements63/


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## lilspaz68

6-7 weeks is my guess.

Unlikely to be pregnant from young boys as well...if an adult male had been in there, would be a very very different story.


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## 2boysloose

Does any one have any idea how to re-home so many bubs? (Of course they may not even be pregnant, but better safe than sorry).
I'm in California, not not a lot of my friends like rats.


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## lilspaz68

First you need to buy a small postal scale and weight the girls, significant weight gain is pregnant.


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## 2boysloose

Well, how much do they gain a day? How would I be able to tell whtehr they're pregnant or just growing?


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## lilspaz68

I did up a chart on Bronwen's weight gain...She was only 3-4 months old and still growing, so I needed to differentiate growth weight from baby weight.

Bronwen’s Weight Gain (3-4 months old) 
Aug. 11 – 267 g 
Aug. 14 – 279 g (8 g gain) 
Aug. 15 – 289 g (10 g gain)
Aug. 16 – 302 g (13 g gain)
Aug. 17 – 319 g (17 g gain)
Aug. 18 – 329 g (10 g gain)
Aug. 19 – 346 g (17 g gain)
Aug. 20 – 354 g (8 g gain)
Aug. 21 – 364 g (birth) (10 g gain)
Sept. 14 – 278 g


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## jmk3482

2boysloose said:


> Does any one have any idea how to re-home so many bubs? (Of course they may not even be pregnant, but better safe than sorry).
> I'm in California, not not a lot of my friends like rats.


www.petfinder.com

Go to this site and list the babies on there. Someone from California may be looking for rats. Also, try craigslist.com. Or start calling the Humane Society to see if they could take them.


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## 2boysloose

I couldn't give them to a human society where they couls possibly be put to sleep, or become snake food! I like the craigslist idea though, so thanks! 
I don't even know whether or not they are pregnant, so I don't know why I am gettiing so worried! haha.


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## lovinmyworm

BEWARE!!! Craigslist is really not a great place for animals. People will pretend to be interested and next thing ya know they are turned into snake food!! You need to ask potential adopters the right questions. 
What cage will they be in?
What kind of bedding will you be using?
What kind of food will you be using?
Do you have any rats in your home?
Vet references?

Then actually call the vet, and bring the rats to them not they pick them up. Someone who wants to feed them to snakes isn't going to have a great cage with rat toys and the correct food. Plus they will have snakes laying around ya know.. I've heard of sooo many bad stories on cl!! People adopting rabbits out and they were turned into food, people who got rid of their bird and 2 week later the bird is back on cl with a higher re-homing fee, ect.


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## Kathleen

The Humane Society wouldn't give up rats as snake food...


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## philosophyfox

*If * she/they is/are pregnant I recommend either an emergency spay or euthanasia for the babies. In the current climate, USA and the UK there are far too many babies / rats in rescue looking for homes.


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## lovinmyworm

Spaying would be awesome for this case mostly because of whole tumor questions asked before by this poster. However I don't think it's gonna happen as this is a child who's parents likely won't pay for it. Then again, perhaps she can get her parents to pay for it so they don't end up with too many rats and that will reduce the likelihoods of tumors later in life for these girls also. Not just that, but you wouldn't have to worry about getting your boys a friend then, you could put one girl with one boy and the other girl with the other boy after the surgery. Boys take to spayed girls super quickly with little to no fighting! It would solve all the problems (well except for the cage issue, but that could be taken care of at Christmas). Hey if you got then spayed and got the boys to get along then you could get a FN 141 or 142 for Christmas and house them all together... something to think about.


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## philosophyfox

I didn't realise there were some male rats involved too. If money / parental involvement is an issue I'd consider euthanising the babies and neutering the adult males. Then hopefully the may all get along and have company, needing only one cage, or you could have two groups as mentioned in a FN cage. Sounds harsh, but do you really want more bubs taking homes from adult rescues


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## lovinmyworm

philosophyfox, the male rats aren't really a part of why these girls are pregnant, and the poster can't afford to get the boys neutered. She planned on getting girls and boys and keeping them separate. 

I think if you bring it up to your parents that you guys might potentially end up with 20+ rats from these girls if they are both pregnant they may cave and let you get them spayed and pay the $ for it. I know as a parent I would have it done just to prevent having that many animals in the house that I couldn't get rid of!! 

My friend got 3 girls at the same time from a pet store (which I told her not to go to this store and to wait until a local breeder had a litter) and all 3 were pregnant. She ended up with 38 rats and could only find homes for 5 of them..... not to mention the cost of new nursery cages, time socializing the babies, ect.


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## 2boysloose

OMG! Wow, e-spays just aren't an option here sorry. And it has nothing to do with not willing to pay for it either, it's just me not agreeing with e-spays. I am a very pro-life person, and yes, that includes animals for me (with the exception of hunting). And no offence philosophy fox, but I think you are to easily persuaded by the easy idea of euthinasia. No offense again....
Actually, my dad and I were just discussing cage issues, and my dad is willing to go and build a HUGE cage (he use to be in consturction, carpentering, etc.).
Lovinmyworm, thanks for the heads up about craigslist. I had no idea. 
I don't know for a fact whether or not my girls are pregnant. ANd yeah, some of you may not agree with my "silly" idea of being against e-spays, but that's just something very personal, and I will stand by it. 
Thanks for everyone's help!


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## lovinmyworm

Hunting ok, e-spays not ok? Hmmm weird! 

If your building another cage BE CAREFUL and read the threads on the other section about home built cages. They are a NIGHTMARE! TRUST ME! No matter how good you think they are, they only last about a year and there went your $.


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## 2boysloose

Haha, i know it sounds funny that I hunt, but am pro-life. When it comes to using animals for food, then it's OK, but I don't agree with ending an animals life for no reason. Now if those babies were suffering, or terribly sick....then it would be a different story. 

Thanks again for the heads up about the built cages. 
Me and my dad will be sure to do our research about what are the best materials and what not, and then decide whther or not to build a big cage, or just buy one. Either way, it turns out, it will be WAAAAAYYYYYY before Christmas.


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## lovinmyworm

Have you considered how small your girls are? The fact that young mom's have MAJOR health risks when delivering and that your girls could die birthing these babies. Not just that, but the babies could be born and the mom may not be mature enough to care for them and they may die off one by one? The babies laying there, cold and starving to death is a far worse fate than e-spay honestly.


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## Kathleen

I think the suggestion to e-spay/euthanize looks at the "bigger picture," e.g., it might be kinder to them and the rats already in rescues rather than possibly not being able to find good homes and/or having to give yet more rats up to rescues. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't do it but that's why it's been suggested. Also, it (an e-spay) might be better for your girls, who are really quite young to be mothers.

I really hope your rats aren't pregnant in the first place. Next time (if there is a next time), I would try selecting from a pet store or breeder that segregates the sexes so you wouldn't get into this situation to begin with. If you find a male in the cage, intentional or not, look elsewhere. 

Whether they end up pregnant or not, I think it would be really smart to spay both your girls. Then you can do what someone else suggested and possibly introduce them to your boys. And they'll get the added health benefits. Win-win all around!


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## 2boysloose

I'm sorry, and please don't beat me up for this. I do want what is best for the girls, and if they are pregnant, I also want what is best for those babies. I know health is a big part in this, and I will do all I can to try make sure that everything works out fine, but I can't do an e-spay. I just can't, and there isn't anything wrong with that either. 
I know that they are young, but chances are, they aren't even pregnant. *crosses eyes, toes, and fingers* 


Does anybody know a really good diet for rattie moms, just in case???


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## Kathleen

This isn't meant to be accusatory or anything but I asked somewhere else and I never got a response from you. I've just been wondering: why did you get girls? And regardless of the pregnancies, do you plan on getting them spayed? Like I said, I don't mean to put you on the spot but I just haven't seen your response to these questions concretely (or I missed them).

I've never had a pregnant rat so I'm not sure if you need to change the diet. Definitely make sure she's getting as much nourishment as possible though. Especially when she's feeding the babies, she'll need proper nutrition to provide milk.


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## lovinmyworm

Kathleen I doubt your will get answers, I've asked this poster several times about food and bedding with no response.


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## 2boysloose

Oh, sorry, I never saw the questions when you asked. 
I got the girls, because my parents said I could get two new ratties, and they suggested two girls, since I already had my guys. I said ok, since people seem to be really happy with their girls. 
No, I never planned to have them spayed, just to be really careful. lol. 
We learned our lesson about bieng careful with the boys and girls thing a few years back (we were sold one of each with hamsters, and ended up with two litters). But ever since then, it hasn't happened again. :]


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## 2boysloose

Wait, lovinmyworm, I'm sorry, I must have missed your questions as well. What were they? 
And please, I am being honest when I say I did just miss seeing them....I'm not trying to hide anything, lol.

Another thing i forgot to respond to, that I just barley saw above, was when you said I couldn't afford to get my boys nuetured. I can afford it, but they are old, and we are very careful with the girls, and will continue to be. We have just chosen to try and aviod nueturing if any way possible.


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## lovinmyworm

They were in threads that were locked. You seem to like to ask a question when someone asks you a question. 

What are you feeding your rats? 

What bedding are you using? 

I asked this before after the whole getting girls after you have 2 lone boys, cage not big enough mess.


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## 2boysloose

Ooooppps. Ok, 
1. I am feeding my ratties lab blocks.
2. I am using Aspen bedding (but if you have other suggestions for the girls and possible babies that would be better, feel free!)


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## Kathleen

I don't think that getting girls per your parents' suggestion was necessarily the most educated decision P) but I have no desire nor room to criticize you because we all do silly things sometimes and I know you didn't have bad intentions. And I'm sure your girls will make good companions, making it worthwhile.

With that in mind, however, I implore you to do right by them and get them spayed (after they have babies, if that's the case, or when you're sure they're not pregnant)... not because I think you're bound to have an accidental litter with one of your boys but for the undeniable health benefits. Then there's the idea of introducing them to your boys (which you also haven't addressed). Doesn't it sound like a good idea to you to have them fixed so they can live healthier lives and so they can be introduced to your boys so that all your rats will be better off?

Sorry to ramble so much but it's just food for thought. You wanted girl rats (whatever your reasons) and you got 'em. I have no beef with that. But I do think you should try to do what's best for all your rats and think you should consider what I've said above. 

Oh, and I just read your post. Get rid of the pine bedding ASAP! Try aspen, Carefresh or Yesterday's News instead. Pine has phenols that will irritate your rats' lungs and may cause URI's.


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## 2boysloose

Alright. I didn't even think of that, but you're right!
I will DEFENITLEY talk my parents into getting them spayed after/if they have the babies.  I don't wanna risk it after this....


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## lovinmyworm

post removed..... wrong bedding.


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## 2boysloose

SORRY, OMG, I TOALLY JUST REAZLIED I SAID PINE! I meant to say Aspen......*slaps self*
I swear, Im not using pine! Wow....how did I get that consfused?! Grrrr.


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## Kathleen

I'm very glad you're going to get them spayed. If you invest the money in this operation, it will pay off in many ways: your girls will be healthier and less likely to get tumors (so it will be less likely you will have to pay for removal); you can try housing all your rats in one cage rather than having to pay and make room for several; your rats, if successfully introduced, will be much happier and likely live longer lives. It's a very good decision all around.


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## 2boysloose

Thanks for all your guy's help! 
I think spaying them after/if they have babies is a good thing to....I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier.....hmmm.


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## philosophyfox

2boysloose said:


> And no offence philosophy fox, but I think you are to easily persuaded by the easy idea of euthinasia. No offense again....


 8O Wow! The _easy idea of [euthanasia _! So watching my beloved 21 month old rat take over 15 minutes to die because the vet botched the first injection was easy? Having my childhood cat, my best friend, my life, put to sleep at 14 because he could no longer walk to his latter tray without collapsing was easy? I'm sorry but great offence_ is_ taken by the very suggestion that I think the life and death choices over animals lives are easy.

You have to see the bigger picture sometimes, and sometimes that giving priority to animals already in rescues. You had the option at the pet store to walk away and get female rats from an ethical source, yet, you chose them from the pet store and you knew before they were wrapped up and ready to go that there had been a male in with them.

Rescues, state side and in the UK are flooded with unwanted animals, because humans see it as a right not a privilege to 'own' pets. Emergency spays are just that, an emergency procedure, to stop another mass influx of unplanned animals. 



> When it comes to using animals for food, then it's OK, but I don't agree with ending an animals life for no reason.


_Using_ them for food is ending their lives for no reason  An e. spay is ending their lives to help animals currently in the world.


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## Marysmuse

PF, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I'm not even arguing the logic of what you are saying. But, for some of us, unborn life and existing life are equally valuable. 

That said, 2Boys, I've stayed out of most of the discussion about you getting girls, to avoid further arguments stemming from some people seeing me as telling them off for being rude and condescending because of your age. 

But, it is my humble opinion that the best course of action for all your pets would be to spay your girls and introduce them to the boys, either as pairs or as a four-some, if the two boys can get along in that setting. Even your aggressive boy deserves a cage-mate, if possible.

Good luck.
Rejoicing in the day,
-Mary


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## philosophyfox

Marysmuse said:


> PF, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I'm not even arguing the logic of what you are saying. But, for some of us, unborn life and existing life are equally valuable.


I don't dispute the value of life with you at all  Born or unborn. I just didn't understand why the OP would take the life of an animal in the name of 'food', yet wouldn't consider euthanasia / e.spay of some potential babies. We don't even know if the does are pregnancy, I just don't understand why they bought the rats knowing they could be pregnant. It's different if rats are rescues etc who are pregnant, but to knowingly buy potentially pregnant rats baffles me.


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## 2boysloose

Well, let me see.....maybe because I bonded with them, and I have had 2 emergency litters before (the guy sold us one of each by mistake, but I was only seven). 
Using animals for "food" as I said was....well, here is an example: I'm going dove hunting tomorrow morning and afternoon. YUM!
I certainley did not mean to offend you, I was just a bit taken aback when I saw how you suggested I euthanize all of the babies.
I have had to put down animals to....at young ages, when I just did not understand how mommy and daddy thought it was kindest to kill my little friend (my first hamster, and actual pet, 'cause fish for me don't count). 
It broke my heart seeing Nugget die while I was holding him.... 
I know what it's like to, and so I'm sorry, but I didn't intend to offend you.


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## philosophyfox

2boysloose said:


> Using animals for "food" as I said was....well, here is an example: I'm going dove hunting tomorrow morning and afternoon. YUM!


 8O you can kill innocent animals yet be so firm over not exploring all options? The argument is inconsistent. In an ideal world there would be no pets, therefore no influx in rescues therefore no need for euthanasia. If you think you can keep all the babies get company for both adult male rats and have adequate cage space, fair play to you, but I don't understand why you got two possibly pregnant females instead of neutering and concentrating on your male rats :?


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## phaidraft

Can you back off the girl? She's young and people around here are trying to help her. I'm getting SO TIRED of reading all this arguing. PM her if you want to discuss specifics, seriously.

ETA: People eat animals. Pro-life people eat animals and are still allowed to be against abortion in all its forms. Can you respect someone's opinion when it differs from your own?


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## philosophyfox

phaidraft said:


> ETA: People eat animals. Pro-life people eat animals and are still allowed to be against abortion in all its forms. Can you respect someone's opinion when it differs from your own?


I can, I was pointing out the flaws in the argument for not having an e.spay etc. I wasn't objecting to people eating meat, I was objecting to the inconsistencies. Sorry if I sound jaded, it's depressing the amount of rats needing homes at the moment, and pet shops are adding to it. No it's not the OP's fault, and the petshop should have kept the does for longer to make sure they aren't expecting. The OP posted asking for help and advice, I provided an option. All I was doing was trying to be logical about inconsistencies between killing some animals but not others. Sorry for offending anyone, I just like things to be set out.


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## Marysmuse

I'm not offended, not at all, and I am so not getting into the whole pro life/choice debate or even the hunting debate.

But since you pointed out flaws, let me clarify my personal opinion. And please don't take this as my disrespecting your beliefs or opinions, I understand your reasoning, and respect what you're saying. This is simply my take on things, and my reasoning behind taking 2Boy's side on this topic. 

For me, in this situation, an e-spay wouldn't be an option, unless there was a pressing reason- i.e., babies not likely to be born viable, that sort of thing. I, personally, faced with a prego rat, would take on the responsibility of raising and possibly keeping the resulting litter through their natural lifespan, if homes could not be found. But that's me. I do understand not everyone can or would be willing to do this, for a variety of reasons, some of which have been discussed in other threads. 
Even 2Boys might not have the option. And she has to decide for herself, with the help and input of her parents, what's best for her pets, current and future, as we all do. I would not criticize someone else, in the same situation, who decided to do the e-spay. 

As to the hunting vrs e-spay; 
My dad was a hunter. He hunted out of necessity, and we got through several winters on the venison he brought home. My reason for being ok with hunting (I don't hunt myself for various reasons, mostly physical limitations), is that my family chooses to use the meat. We could go vegan, certainly. We choose not to. To me, hunting is not "wasting" life. I value the lives of the animals we've taken, and am thankful for the food my dad, and now my husband, have been able to put on the table.
I also feel taking an animal from a wild setting reduces our dependence on factory farmed animals. 

I understand that you see the e-spay as a viable option to the pet overpopulation problem. I just happen to disagree. When my husband shoots a deer, there is a certainty the meat will be used. The life is not wasted. Euthanizing babies based on hypothetically taking homes away from adult rescues doesn't have the same certainty.

I respect everyone's right to their own opinions, and their right to make the choices for their pets that seem best for them. I'm just clarifying the logic behind what I, personally, believe.

Feel free to rebut with your own reasoning of course, I'm always interested in hearing people's thoughts on these things.

Rejoicing in the day,
-Mary


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## twitch

ok, we have delved into ethical debate once again. while i am thrilled people want to discuss this sort of thing this thread is not the place for it. if you would like to continue discussion of euthanasia vs hunting or some sort of vein related to that please start a new topic in the lounge for it. so long as everyone stays civil the mods will allow friendly debate on nearly any topic. 

as for this thread, let get back to helping 2boys prepare for the possibilty of 2 pregnant rats. the point of the health risk to the young mothers has been made and she has decided to continue with the possible pregnancy and raise any babies. it would also seem that she has decided to try to rehome any babies as well. 

so for right now she needs nursery advice, feeding advice and should the rats have babies she will need advice in screening potential adopters. she has already been advised to weight the girls daily to watch for pregnancy growth vs growing up growth. 

she is currently using aspen bedding, i would recommend litter trays with YN and lining the bottom of the cage with fleece, preferably of a light color so she can keep an eye out for spotting

i also recommend that she shops around for the best possible rat vet in her area in case of emergency. in normal cases i would recommend this just as a matter of course for owning rats but it is especially important now where her females are in a potentially dangerous situation and should they have problems in delivery or during pregnancy the difference between life and death could be a matter of minutes. she'll need to inform the vet of the possibility of the young pregnancies and hopefully the vet will let call at anytime and be on call for any possibilities, including the ones outside of business hours. 

for diet they will need extra protein and high end quality foods. watch for signs of too much protein too as that can make them uncomfortable and be a health hazard over a prolonged period of time. to know they are getting too much they will itch and there may be hair loss. to correct this, offer less protein. 

2boys, hopefully others will be able to help this situation that you find yourself in more.


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## 2boysloose

Thanks twitch, I'll call my local vet and see if they are experienced with exotics, just incase of the emergency.
I don't know if Petsmart sells YN, does anybody else know?
I'm going out later either today ot tuesday to buy an extra tank for the possible mummsies. 
Foods such as veggies and fruits, and of course the classic hard boiled egg will be offered, so thanks for the tips!

Hmmm. Obviously any babies should be kept incase of problems with re-homing, but I'm keeping fingers crossed that there wont be a problem at all (aka, no babies). 
 Thanks again!


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## Kathleen

Yep, they sell Yesterday's News at PetSmart (Petsmart? PetsMart?).


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## 2boysloose

Mine says Petsmart. I used to think that they meant PetsMart to, I guess it goes either way??? :?


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## SamAnthrax

Well they changed the coloring of the words so now it is PetSmart Pet is in red and Smart is in blue. or its the opp colorings. I dunno.


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## 2boysloose

Weird.....oh well.


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## phaidraft

I haven't had any luck finding YN at our PetSmart. Hope yours has it!


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## SamAnthrax

Really? Should be in three places, small animal bedding has two sizes, ferret section, and cat litter section should have unscented and scented.


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## phaidraft

Wow, thanks. I'll have to do some in-depth looking!


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## 2boysloose

lol. Well, so far I have one emergency tank ready (even though I shouldn't have to worry until the 16 of September, lol). I just thought I would anyway. Aspen bedding, an igloo, and a toy. I have yet to put a water bottle and food bowl in there yet. 
I know girls are hyper, but really, Lola is STRANGLEY hyper. lol.
She is so skittish and jumpy, but likes people.


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## Kathleen

According to Google, it's PetSmart. Ha...

Er, anyway. Yep, that's how many girls are - always on the move.


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## twitch

i get my YN from the pet food section in my grocery store. its in Sobey's for $12 for 30lbs but not in superstore at all. in any case, the cat litter one is the least expensive, make sure to get the unscented. 

instead of a tank, cause they can be expensive and hard to get an appropriate size, a large tupperware storage bin can be easily modifed into a suitable nursery. cut a hole in the lid and place in hardware cloth and drill some holes in the side for ventilation.


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## Marysmuse

Sorry 2Boys, did'nt mean to hijack your thread. Twitch is exactly right. 

Good luck with the ratties, and hope they're not prego! As cute as baby rats are, they grow up into big rats. 

Rejoicing in the day,
-Mary


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## Stace87

Marysmuse said:


> As cute as baby rats are, they grow up into big rats.


Are you implying big rats aren't cute? lol


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## Marysmuse

:lol: Stace


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## Stace87

Marysmuse said:


> :lol: Stace


Poor Tom and Huck. They'll be offended now and not like you when they get there :wink:


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## Marysmuse

*Mary blocks the forum so Tom and Huck don't see*


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## 2boysloose

Are preggo rats supposed to grow a little at a time, and then be most noticable right before the birth? :? 
Twitch: I'll try that giantic storage bin idea, since I already have one of those. Thanks.


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## twitch

if you are weighting them then you should be able to notice signifcant gain daily like lilspaz showed in her previous post. 

if you are going simply by eye that's really up to the rat and the situation. there are some rats that can hide their pregnancy to the point you don't know they are pregnant until after the bubs arrive and then there are other rats that you can tell the preggo belly on day 1-2 and of course there are all the cases inbetween. eyeing them really is not much of an indicator at all. 

you have the calendar marked for 23 days since you got them? if they have bubs by then, you know they were pregnant. if they don't they could be late (some pregnancies can last up to 25 days but those are rare), they could never have been pregnant or a babe could be stuck. 

honestly, you need to be weighing them at the same time each day. its the only real firm indicator of pregnancy until the bubs are actually born. if you are uncertain of what a normal growth rate vs a preggo growth rate is, just post the weights here each day and i'm sure someone will be able to tell you the difference.


ETA: also, if you are concerned they may pregnant then move them to their nurseries now. do not wait until near the due date as you do not really know when they got pregnant and they could have been a few days into their pregnancy even before you got them.


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## 2boysloose

Ok, I'll move them in the nurseries just incase. 
But do you need to do intro's for the moms once they are done with the babies? They already know each other, obviously, but do I have to re-introduce them after the babies?


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## Stace87

I don't really understand why this thread has so many posts! We don't even know if either of the girls ARE pregnant yet. The same questions seem to keep going over and over, also in other sections of the forum :?


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## 2boysloose

Well then.... * offended face*
lol.
Well, the other one didn't start out that way. Where have I asked the same questions? I didn't mean to. oooooppppps. 
I know they aren't FOR SURE pregnant, but so far, all anyone on here has told me to do is become educated. lol. So to become such, I must ask questions!!! *attacks forumers* (yes, I made up the word forumers)


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## twitch

the moms can have play times together during their time with the babies. they will need a few minutes out from time to time and you will need to handle the babies, they can do it at the same time. 

as for if they will need to go through intros all over again afterwards, it is possible but not a definate. it will depend on your rats.


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## 2boysloose

Ok, well, the girls are getting a bit bigger. Lola especially, but I'm not really gonna move 'em into their nurseries until maybe September 11 or 12.
I kinda think that Stitch might be pregnant to, even though originally I was only conserned about Lola. 
Anyways, I'll keep ya'll updated!


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## A1APassion

pictures?


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## 2boysloose

I'll try......hold on one sec. 
They aren't huge yet, but there is a bit of a difference from when I first got them.


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## 2boysloose

OK, so my mom turned down the craiglsit idea, and I'm going to respect her reasons for turning it down. She says people have been known to sell sex on there, and even attempt to sell babies, and therefore has forbiden my usage of the site. lol.
Any other websites that do that sort of thing with pets?


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## lovinmyworm

Still no pictures, still no weighing them to let us know........ 

Seriously how are we suppose to help you when you can't allow us to??? 

As for craigslist, no they don't sell sex on there it's against policy, no they don't sell babies on there. The section you want is the pets section! You don't need to go anywhere else on that site. None of the adult things have to be gone to such as the personals sections. You could go to kijiji.com, but hey they have a personals section also, or the newspaper, but than again there are personals in that too.... so guess your out of luck! 

FYI, go to www.craigslist.com and pick your city, go into that site and you see nothing of the personals adult section AT ALL! There is a place at the top where it says community, under that section is pets. There are no click on adds, nothing but writing on this site unless you click on the adds. They could go to that site and list the babies themselves and then realize that cl, kijiji, and even the newspaper have nothing but words written unless you actually click on the adds.


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## 2boysloose

I know lovinmyworm, and yeah, I was busy taking pictures. 
My mom knows her stuff about comuters and web sites, especially involving security, because she works at lightspeed computer systems, and she is the person that blocks out those things. 


Anyways....Here are some pics of Lola (Stitch is still camera shy):
What have you got there?
http://s425.photobucket.com/albums/pp336/jclements63/?action=view¤t=P8020033.jpg

Belly shots, sorry they aren't the greatest. She still has 10 to know for sure, or until she has the bubs, so it might not be that significant now.
http://s425.photobucket.com/albums/pp336/jclements63/?action=view¤t=P8020041.jpg
http://s425.photobucket.com/albums/pp336/jclements63/?action=view¤t=P8020042.jpg
http://s425.photobucket.com/albums/pp336/jclements63/?action=view¤t=P8020035.jpg
http://s425.photobucket.com/albums/pp336/jclements63/?action=view¤t=P8020034.jpg


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## twitch

maybe its just me but when i click on those all i get is blank pages


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## Stace87

Yeah I get blank pages too twitch.


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## 2boysloose

Hmmm. Let me try and re-post them...I got that too.


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## 2boysloose

Ok, let see if this works.
Sorry there are other pcitures of the girls in there to, but you can see which ones are of Lola's belly. http://s425.photobucket.com/albums/pp336/jclements63/?special_track=nav_tab_my_albums


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## Stace87

Doesn't look pregnant to me from those pics.


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## 2boysloose

Well, she does have 10 days left, and people say you cant really tell up until 3-2 days left, right?
My mom thinks there is a difference since we got her, and so do I, since in real life she is much rounder looking, but we also aren't qualified to tell either. She get's really weird and kinda upset when you tough her stomach....it's kinda cute actually. That's good that you don't think she looks pregnant though.


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## lovinmyworm

Well of all the rats I have owned which is alot only one of them liked their belly being touched, the rest squirm to get away! Doesn't look pregnant to me, looks like a typical rat that is growing from being a baby to an adult. They get bigger, then longer, then bigger then longer.


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## 2boysloose

*wipes forehead* That's good news then. Makes me a little less nervous.


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## SamAnthrax

I didn't realize my girls back in may were preggie until two days before. So well, just keep us updated. Lol.


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## 2boysloose

Ok, I will. 
Later guys! I'll update on the girls in a few days.


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## 2boysloose

OK, well, a week has gone by, and I am glad to say that I am beginning to doubt that either of my girls are pregnant. I can kinda see their nipples, and their bellies are a bit larger, but I think it's just because they are growing. *jumps for joy* 
I will offically know in only two, maybe three days, but so far, things are lookin' good!!! YAY!


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## Amyshizzle

Good luck.


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## 2boysloose

YEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!! 
It has been almost 21 days, and.....NO BABIES!!!! Whooooooo-hooooooo!
You have no idea how relived I am-for a while, I thought I'd have to deal with a lot of babies, and not be able to care for them properly, find them all homes, etc. 
*wipes forehead* phew!


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## A1APassion

lets hope that you never have to go through any of that

because at this point any oopsies will have to have happened while in your care. 

Please make sure you take extra special care to never let the girls & boys interact with one another. The best way to do this is to educate everyone in the home about the rats & who is female & who is male & just how extremely important it is thjat they are never allowed to play with one another. Make sure you educate your friends & you educate the friends of any siblings you may have so that they never let an accident happen.

Good luck with your girls & your boys!


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## 2boysloose

Thanks Passion! :]
I don't have any siblings at all, so luckliy I won't have any "I didn't know!" from a lil' brother or sister. lol.
And my friends all know who is who (I made sure of it), and to never put them together even for a second. Besides, I only really have two friends who will even hold my rats, hehe.
Once again, thanks everyone!!!


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