# horrible experience putting my rat scarlett to rest... please dont make this mistake.



## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

I just had to put my best pal scarlett to rest... she was a three year old black berkshire, and she was my companion for two years. I knew it was time, but I sort of assumed that all vets put animals to sleep in a similar fashion. Keep in mind, I was an absolute wreck... I am still sobbing and I cant breathe through my nose, and I'm feeling terrible...
THIS made it worse: all I have to say is make sure that your vet does not use this method:
-injection with ketamine followed by an overdose of anasthetic. I just had a terrible experience... it took 3 injections under the skin and one intramuscular, which caused her pain. a ten minute procedure turned into a one HOUR procedure, which was horrific... I am so upset that it had to be like that... I wanted her to be quickly put to rest that way she didnt have to crawl around all woozy and be distressed not knowing what was going on. She did choose to crawl up to my shoulder, which was so touching in her last moment.

I should have known!! I really disliked this vet from the beginning! I brought Scarlett there once, and I hated the way he did the exam and his feedback. I took her to two other vets who were just great. I did not have any transportation, so I had to take her to this one since its the closest. To make matters worse, I cant even afford to keep her ashes, and had to have her cremated with all the rest of the animals... I cannot have her ashes back, which I really, really wanted. She was my best pal, how can I not keep her here with mme...? I'mm feeling so depressed now... I miss her so badly already... and I'm so sad that I had to put her to sleep...


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

whoops, please put this in rat-related. made a mistake in putting it here.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

That is so sad I had no idea vets put rats down like that. That is awful. I keep reediting this post because I can not think of words to use to tell you how bad I feel you had this experience.  Ah I can't picture it.


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## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

Wow...this made me tear up big time. I am so sorry that that vet did this to you. I wish people would be honest and up front about their experience in doing these things so that traumatic events like this could be avoided. My thoughts are with you *hug*


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Everyone! This vet did it ass end backwards. It is inhalant aesthetic (you present) then injection while under to pts. Always double check and never allow anything different. 


I'm so sorry you went through this. Contact the vet board. 


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

If this really is not an acceptable way to PTS I will report him. I don't know how to do this... I'm too emotionally traumatized right now and I'm just sobbing...If the vet did not use a correct procedure he should be reported. I am so mad and disappointed ... I brought her there to die in peace, not to die in confusion and pain !  god this is awful... 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

When you can, id get a at-home garden stone maker and personalize it with her name. It's portable and long lasting way to memorialize her. 

And no. It's not proper. It's not something you need to hear at this time but you've been wronged and so has poor scarlet. 


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## bloomington bob (Mar 25, 2014)

I'm so sorry - I'm glad you are reporting him - no animal should have to go through that


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## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

Here in Halifax they use some gas followed by a lethal injection into the heart. I have never heard of what you described. And would they not give you back the body to bury?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Dusty,

Most vets can't due to animal burial laws and "medical" disposals. 

Also, the injection yours got last was what hers got first. A potassium injection. 


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## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

Hmm, weird. Here they offer either to let you take her home, or they charge you $11.00 for the cremation. And there is no option to get the ashes either.


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## evander (Jun 30, 2013)

Oh my gosh!!! I am so so sorry - when we were talking in the other thread I had no idea you were going to do it today - I called around to be sure they do the gas before injection.

I am so so sorry - don't know what else to say 

Hugs!!!


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## MissSix (Jul 8, 2014)

My heart goes out to you. 
It's never easy to have to do that, and having to endure something like that does not help.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

I am so sorry. That is very, very much against the AVMA guidelines of humane euthanasia. They are supposed to heavily sedate the rat with isoflurane before giving the lethal injection into the heart ("heart stick"). I have only had to have one rat euthanized (Bernard) and it took me quite a while to find a vet who was willing to do the procedure properly. We wrapped him up in an old tshirt of mine and I held onto him and pet him while the vet slipped the mask over his nose until he fell asleep. He then tested to make sure he was fully sedated by pinching his toes with a pen - after that, he was placed on the table and given an injection of presumably phenobarbital (I believe it was a milky blue liquid) directly into the heart. His breathing eventually slowed and it was over within a few minutes. Very peaceful and fast, though it's never a fun experience.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

But even if they don't follow the guidelines I wonder if that's reason for disciplinary action or something ...? I don't even really want that. I just don't want any rat or human to go through that. 
I feel so horrible right now .... I just miss her terribly and I feel terrible for what she went through. This pain in my heart is awful and I'm regretting that PTS so much....I'm really traumatized ... 


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

Please tell me if I'm reading this wrong, but I think here it says that the use of an injection of ketamine and xylazine are actually accepted methods; after what I went through, I really cannot believe that.... https://www.avma.org/kb/policies/documents/euthanasia.pdf . Rats' guidelines appear to be under the lab animals section.. 

It seems like its something that's "allowed", so I can imagine that other vets will use the same. Do not go to a vet that uses this method... I guess all I can do is write a letter to the office urging them to implement the isoflurane followed by cardiac stick.

If I'm wrong, please let me know... Scarlett really deserved more peace than that... She was a good rat...


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

On page twenty nine it states that anesthetics should be used whenever possible. 

Tbh...the method he used is barbaric and is used in meat factories. I also suspect something went terribly wrong because there is no reason to anesthetize any animal that is overdosed on ketamine. Ketamine induces a heart attack in critical levels which is why you put the rat under prior to - the arrhythmia is then nothing. 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

*horrible experience putting my rat scarlett to rest... please dont make this ...*

Page thirty : potassium chloride is unacceptable in conscious vertebrae animals

Edit : your rat is considered a companion animal. So you can find his method under companion animals - unacceptable methods. 

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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

Hey nanashi... Thanks.. he never used potassium chloride, he used subcutaneous and intramuscular injections of a combo ketamine/xylazine, and then he gave an overdose of anesthetic once she was finally sedated... I only see the section where it says that an overdose is acceptable given they are sedated ...ketamine/xylazine is listed as acceptable. It certainly should NOT be... If it is stated in the companion animal section that it is not acceptable, I can use this info. I'm a complete wreck right now so I'm not thinking at my 100% best......


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

> Consequently, euthanasia techniques that result in “rapid loss of consciousness” and “minimize pain and distress” should be strived for


It does not sound like either of these were strived for by your vet. Regardless of whether the method was approved or not, the fact that it caused her visible pain and distress indicates it was done incorrectly.



> Observers should be advised about the possibility of ketamine-induced muscle spasms during induction.





> Nonbarbiturate anesthetic overdose—Injectable anesthetic overdose (eg, combination of ketamine and xylazine given IV, IP or IM or propofol given IV) is acceptable for euthanasia when animal size, restraint requirements, or other circumstances indicate these drugs are the best option for euthanasia.





> (Injectable euthanasia) is usually the most desirable method when it can be performed without causing fear or distress in the animal. When appropriately administered, acceptable injectable euthanasia agents result in smooth loss of consciousness prior to cessation of cardiac and/or respiratory function, minimizing pain and distress to the animal. However, heightened awareness for personnel safety is imperative when using injectable euthanasia agents because needle-stick injuries involving these drugs have been shown to result in adverse effects (41.6% of the time); 17% of these adverse effects were systemic and severe.





> In *anesthetized* mice, retrobulbar injection of no more than 200 mL of injectable anesthetic solution (ketamine:xylazine) is acceptable with conditions, resulting in death within 5 seconds of cessation of injection.





> Lethal doses of dissociative agents such as ketamine are commonly used in laboratory settings. In some species, ketamine alone can result in stimulatory activity prior to sedation and loss of consciousness. In conscious rodents, ketamine and similar dissociative agents should be used in combination with an a2-adrenergic receptor agonist such as xylazine or benzodiazepines such as diazepam.


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

Yes! That's exactly what I was looking for ... I just started eating again, and I took some sleeping meds so I hope that I'll be able to think clearly enough to write down everything well ... I'm trying not to feel too guilty about what happened...

Do you think I should complain directly to the Avma or complain to the office? 


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## EmilyGPK (Jul 7, 2014)

You can call the AVMA to clarify how the guidelines apply to rats, ask for the animal welfare division. To make a complaint about a specific veterinarian you need to use the process set out by your state board of veterinary medicine, they look after licensing and grievances: http://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601,7-154-35299_63294_27647-43590--,00.html


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