# Ugh.



## zlioness (Dec 27, 2007)

Well, after a BAD lapse in judgement on my part, Xoe bit Khloe's eye (the same one that was bitten previously) AGAIN. They've since been seperated and I don't know if they can interact ever again, other than looking at each other from seperate cages, because I don't want Khloe to go through anymore pain, and I don't want Xoe to get hurt. I'm at a loss as to what to do other than keeping them seperated. Any advice?


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## beanieboo-rattles (Jan 3, 2008)

Are you sure Xoe bit her ? ANd that Khloe didnt just scratch it while grooming ?

If they are fighting i suggest seperating them for a week or so, without cage to cage contact. Then Starting over on intros. WIth vanilla..baths..having cages next door the whole shebang !

Have you noticed anyother aggressive behaviour ? It seems odd to me.


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## zlioness (Dec 27, 2007)

I am sure. I wasn't sure when I first noticed her eye was bad (the best way to describe it is there was blood under the surface of the eye; several blood vessels had burst), so my boyfriend took her to the vet for me while I was at work and got steroid drops to keep the swelling of the blood vessels down. 

We decided it was best to keep them seperate until her eye was healed, but after a couple of days they were seeming rather lonely. I, in a serious lapse of stupidity and denial, decided that until they could be caged together again, would let them have short playtimes on my bed every night until then. Khloe started powergrooming (which she has done since they've been together) and I didn't think anything of it. Next thing I know, they run under the blanket, I hear a couple of loud squeaks, I pull the blanket back... Khloe's eye is gushing blood and they're reared up on their hind legs, pushing each other away.

: (

Their cages are currently next to each other. They can see/smell/hear each other, but they're not within arm's reach. Are you suggesting I not let them see each other at all for a week? That's going to be a little difficult, as I live in a one bedroom apartment and my dogs and rats have to be kept seperate (or the dogs try to eat the rats, quite literally I am afraid).

I'll try it though... see if it helps. Should I also wash my hands between handling either one of them so they don't smell each other?


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## beanieboo-rattles (Jan 3, 2008)

zlioness said:


> I am sure. I wasn't sure when I first noticed her eye was bad (the best way to describe it is there was blood under the surface of the eye; several blood vessels had burst), so my boyfriend took her to the vet for me while I was at work and got steroid drops to keep the swelling of the blood vessels down.
> 
> We decided it was best to keep them seperate until her eye was healed, but after a couple of days they were seeming rather lonely. I, in a serious lapse of stupidity and denial, decided that until they could be caged together again, would let them have short playtimes on my bed every night until then. Khloe started powergrooming (which she has done since they've been together) and I didn't think anything of it. Next thing I know, they run under the blanket, I hear a couple of loud squeaks, I pull the blanket back... Khloe's eye is gushing blood and they're reared up on their hind legs, pushing each other away.
> 
> ...


If you cant get them in a different room dont worry. But seperate the cages across the room maybe so they cant get as much contact. Dont worry about the smell carrying. If there in the same room the smell will carry anyway. The idea is to make them think its a brand new rat when you re intro them. 


One thing to try is switch the cages. And see if Xoe becomes aggressive with being in Khloes space. Its also a way that They will become accostumoed to the fact that the other rats smell is there. And they cant get rid of it as the other rat isnt actually there.. If that makes sense ?


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## zlioness (Dec 27, 2007)

BeanieBoo-Rattles said:


> zlioness said:
> 
> 
> > I am sure. I wasn't sure when I first noticed her eye was bad (the best way to describe it is there was blood under the surface of the eye; several blood vessels had burst), so my boyfriend took her to the vet for me while I was at work and got steroid drops to keep the swelling of the blood vessels down.
> ...


Sure. Thanks for the advice, I'll definitely give it a try. : )


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Perhaps she didn't bite her again.

Have you reseen your vet about the eye? If the eyeball (is it the eyeball?) gushes with blood, it can mean that the eyeball has ruptured. I would be particularily concerned about that if the cornea had sustained injury from the first fight, and adding steroids to the mix can make the problem much worse. Perhaps the second fight only happened in the first place because of a wee grumpy rat with a sore eye and an over rambunctious alpha? It wouldn't have taken much, even a small knock, to make the eyeball haemmorage (sp?)

Just an idea.


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## beanieboo-rattles (Jan 3, 2008)

Thats what i origionally thought ration. 

But gave information as if she had attacked her.

If it is , as ration described , Then seperating blah blah wouldnt make a difference. Youre better off taking her to the vet


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Well, a fight could easily have caused the bleeding. But surely getting bitten in the eye twice is reasonably improbable? I don't know.

I, personally, would say the chances of a little pain from the eyeball causing an irritable rat + nervousness about the previous fight in addition to being overgroomed when she may not be feeling her best could have easily resulted in a bust up. All it would have taken, if the eyeball the pressure within the eyeball was high enough, would have been a small knock and then would gush.

Daphne's eye burst with the help of a saline drop! So it really doesn't take much.

Maybe I'm going along the wrong lines here - but I hope I'm not, because once you get that eye cleared up, you should be fine (after careful re-intros)


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## zlioness (Dec 27, 2007)

Ration1802 said:


> Perhaps she didn't bite her again.
> 
> Have you reseen your vet about the eye? If the eyeball (is it the eyeball?) gushes with blood, it can mean that the eyeball has ruptured. I would be particularily concerned about that if the cornea had sustained injury from the first fight, and adding steroids to the mix can make the problem much worse. Perhaps the second fight only happened in the first place because of a wee grumpy rat with a sore eye and an over rambunctious alpha? It wouldn't have taken much, even a small knock, to make the eyeball haemmorage (sp?)
> 
> Just an idea.


Well, maybe you're right about her not biting the eye, because I didn't SEE it happen. As I said, they went under my blanket, and literally only a second or two later, I heard loud squeaks...and then there was blood. It's possible the eye could have been bumped hard enough to make it burst. I don't know. I'm just really scared they won't be able to get along anymore because of my ignorance.

As for the steroid drops, well, it's just what the vet gave my boyfriend and told him (to be explained to me later) to put a drop in the affected eye twice a day, and that it would help the swelling go down. It seems to have only helped slightly. In a week we'll probably take her to the vet again and I'm sure they'll be able to assess whether or not they need to try something else or (hopefully not) remove the eye. I am hoping I will get to go to the vet the second time around... the way my boyfriend described it to me, this vet didn't seem to know a lot about rats... (but it's the only clinic in the area that I know of that accepts rats)


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

What's the name of the eyedrops you were given?

How does the eye look now? Is the swelling to the eyeball itself?

Is a pic possible?

Sorry for all the Qs, I've been through something similar with my Daph's. I'm just worried that if the eyeball has burst, steroid drops won't help, but aggrivate the problem further. =/ Antibiotic eyedrops are probably your best bet, with an injected anti-inflammatory for swelling and pain meds, if required. Actually applying the steroid to an injured cornea will prevent healing from occurring


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## zlioness (Dec 27, 2007)

Ration1802 said:


> What's the name of the eyedrops you were given?
> 
> How does the eye look now? Is the swelling to the eyeball itself?
> 
> ...


The only thing I can find on the bottle that may or may not be the name of the medication is... 'Gentamicin Sulfate - Opthalmic Solution'. If that helps.

Yeah, the swelling seems to be to the eyeball itself, and there's also an ulcer.

I'll try to get a pic later.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Hmm. I've googled and it mentions nothing about steroids - it seems like it's a general antibiotic.

If there's an ulcer in the eyeball, you definately shouldn't be using steroids. =/

I, personally, don't like the sound of this too much. I'll wait for the pic though. Have you spoken to the vet since the 'gushing'?

Here are pics of Daphne's eye, hours after her eyeball ruptured. (they are very gross, beware). I don't think there will be many similarities, but what do you think?

Before (we don't think it was injury related - the yellow is probably infection, but this is when the interocular pressure was high) - at this point we were using steroid drops prescribed by the vet - not :roll:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/befferoo/Rats/eye7221207.jpg

After her eyeball ruptured (after administering a saline drop to flush her eye)- her eye literally haemmoraged (sp?) blood for 10 or so minutes - then stopped

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/befferoo/Rats/eye2231207.jpg

And 5 hours after the rupture

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/befferoo/Rats/eye123122007.jpg


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## zlioness (Dec 27, 2007)

Ration1802 said:


> Hmm. I've googled and it mentions nothing about steroids - it seems like it's a general antibiotic.
> 
> If there's an ulcer in the eyeball, you definately shouldn't be using steroids. =/
> 
> ...


Yeah, I googled it too and I couldn't find anything about it being a steroid. My boyfriend said he wasn't sure now if the vet said steroid or antibiotic... yeah... :roll:

Her eye does like a lot like that, actually. Maybe a little redder. We haven't talked to the vet yet but we're going to try and take her tomorrow or early next week.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

That's good. The sooner the better with eye injuries. Poor Daphne had to have her eye removed in the end. But she survives happily without it


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