# Cattle dogs are a little scary... How do deal with my boss' dogs?



## Finnebon (Jul 15, 2013)

So I have 2 jobs (sorta). One is at a dog daycare/boarding facility, and the other is as an apprentice to a groomer that I just started and go once or twice a week on my days off. At the boarding place, we frequently have cattle dogs (blue/red heelers). They almost always seem to be barrier aggressive in their kennels, will bite at anything that comes into their kennel (like when we refill their water or give food) and many are "lead only" where only the leads or managers are allowed to interact with them directly without a barrier in between. The way they are aggressive is scarier than most other breeds too. They stand still and look kind of unassuming, and move only their eyes when they watch you move, then when they think there's an opportunity to get you, they lunge. If you don't recognize dog body language, it would probably be very surprising. The only dog that's ever bit me at work for absolutely no reason at all was a cattle dog who snuck up behind me in group and gave me a herding nip on the back of my calf which resulted in a big bruise and welt that lasted weeks, and I almost never bruise!

Well, that all I could deal with easily, but the new apprenticeship with this groomer is a great opportunity and grooming can make a lot more money than the minimum wage I'm getting now and have been getting most of my life. Well she has 2 cattle dogs that she brings to work with her. One is ok, as long as I ignore him or interact only on his terms minimally. He's a little more "friendly" and walks around the room a little and sometimes comes over to get pet. But the other one likes to be in his crate, and the door is usually open. If I go over to the side of the room where the dogs are, they get up and bark aggressively at me and it's pretty scary. Sometimes my hands are shaking after they do something like that. I used the vacuum today to suck up hair after groom, and one almost got out of the kennel, barking and pushing against the door to get out and felt like it was to get out at me, but I was able to push the door closed after a little fighting with it and lock it.

The groomer is firm with her dogs and doesn't baby them. They are not like this because they are spoiled, that's just how they are, and I guess they dont' like strangers near them. I feel if I tell her her dogs make me uncomfortable, she may question my desire to be a groomer because not all dogs that come to be groomed are friendly, and some dogs are quite nasty and try to bite during the whole grooming process. Plus who likes to be told that someone doesn't like their dog/babies? She's had cattle dogs all her life and is used to their type of personality and how to deal with them. But I'm not used to it yet and they make me extremely uncomfortable. I don't breed discriminate usually, and for breeds that usually are discriminated against like pit bulls, most of the pit bulls I've ever met are the sweetest most people loving dogs ever. But most cattle dogs are scary and way more likely to be people aggressive. I work with many many many dogs at my job, and I can't actually recall a single pitty that made me even the least bit uncomfortable. But like 90% of the cattle dogs I would not trust for a second. 

Do you think the dogs will eventually get used to me and I will eventually get used to them and it'll be better later on? I don't know what to do. If they make me jump or scare me in some way like this afternoon with the vacuum thing, I'm left feeling shaken and anxious all day and just in general feeling unhappy/distressed the entire rest of the day and almost depressed and questioning my choice of learning grooming and where that leaves my future and will I ever find a job I like that makes more than minimum wage etc etc. If it wasn't for her dogs, I'd be very very happy going to see her and being taught a valuable trade (for free!). I don't know what I can do without making myself look bad. I do try to be firm and not act afraid of them and do as she tells me to do for how to deal with them, but idk.. some cattle dogs are just scary. I tried treat bribery a couple times and it didn't seem effective at all.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

I would be frank with your boss and say that you aren't familiar with cattle dogs and that it would be awesome if she would introduce you to her dogs like both of you getting on the ground and playing/petting the dogs. If the dogs see that their owner likes you, they might be more wiling to accept you. Google "introducing my dog(s) to someone/a stranger" or something similar and ask your boss to help you with whatever advice you find. Right now the dogs know you are scared of them and they are interpreting that as a reason to be aggressive with you. I think your boss will appreciate that you are frank and direct with her, it shows you are willing to learn and overcome challenges. Keep us updated.


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

I agree with asking your boss for help dealing with them. From what I have read herding dogs are bred to be independent, think for themselves, and are not really amenable to play type interactions. They are expected to do their job often without human assistance. Only your boss can tell you how to deal with these animals and they are not likely to "give" any type of authority to you, because that is not what they were bred for or trained to do as I understand it.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

First, I'm not going to pretend that I've ever worked with cattle dogs. But from what I'm given to understand cattle dogs are actually part dingo. I have worked with a part wild rat and I discovered, interestingly enough, that some animals don't necessarily like humans as a species. Rather they bond with certain humans they like, know and trust. I suppose even in the wild both rats and wild dogs would not immediately accept every other dog or rat as a friend. Both rats and dogs are pack animals that tend to belong to a certain pack that they defend from all other packs.


Interestingly, we were able to introduce our part wild rat to other people. There was actually a ritual we had to follow. First we had to be holding our rat, then the other person would have to speak and introduced himself, then they had to submit their hand for sniffing and once our rat lowered her head she was fine being gently touched and petted. If a stranger tried to grab her when we weren't there she would attack them viciously. I'm not going to say it was aggression but it was a very effective method of self defense.


Again, I'm no expert on cattle dogs, but I suspect they may have a similar tendency to bond only with their human owners and their families. I also suspect that there might be some ritual involved in being safely introduced to them. My limited experience with a feral dog tells me that dogs seem to have rituals too. Once they understand that you are not a threat they can come to regard you as a friend rather quickly.


I'm actually surprised that your boss hasn't properly introduced you to her dogs yet. Maybe she thinks you're afraid of them. Or maybe she thinks you don't want to get to know them. I believe honesty might be the best policy here. Tell your boss how much you like dogs and how much you would like to befriend her dogs. I suppose it would be okay to tell her that you are more than a little bit afraid of them. Let's face it, nobody wants to get bitten. Ask her if there is any way that she can safely introduce you to them so that you can enjoy their company too.


When taking our part wild rat outside amongst people, it always made me nervous when people wanted to pet her. Honestly, for liability reasons I would prefer that people would leave her alone. But even after I told people that she would bite and was vicious, for some strange reason most still wanted to pet her. So, I would make sure that everyone followed the correct routine and no one ever got bit at a meet and greet I supervised. But in any event, I never offered to introduce her to anyone. Your boss might be in a similar situation, where she realizes that there is a certain risk in introducing her dogs to strangers, but she might know how to do it safely if you really want to get to know them.


Once you tell her that you want to get to know her dogs, she should either help you, or honestly tell you that it's a bad idea. If it's a bad idea, then she should be willing to try and better protect you from them or if she knows how to properly introduce you to her dogs she should help you to get to know them and either way your problem is solved.


In my experience, when dealing with people, it's often not what you say, but how you ask. For the most part, you can manage to offend someone by saying almost anything the wrong way and on the other hand there are very few things you can ask people politely and respectfully that they won't accommodate or even appreciate.


Best luck.


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## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

Proper introductions where the owner shows the dogs that a new person is OK is really crucial with herding dogs, especially the smaller breeds like heelers which tend to be more aggressive and anxious. I have a mix heeler/border collie and she gets very anxious around new people until I show her that they're ok. If your boss is going to bring her dogs to a place where they have to be around other people then she needs to know how to introduce them. I would just tell her that her dogs seem to be a bit anxious around you and ask her to properly introduce them to you. It might help, it might not. Some dogs, especially herding breeds, are really attached to their owners and if they're not socialized early on and often then you get a dog that just typically doesn't like being around other people.


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## thelmaandlouise (Jun 7, 2016)

I grew up with blue heelers. My grandma used to breed them and we were never seen without at least one by our side. Our last blue heeler just died a couple months back from old age, and he was the greatest dog anyone could have. Cattle dogs are extremely smart and protective, and I imagine that's what's going on with the cattle dogs she has. They get anxious easily. It's not that they're aggressive, because they're not, it's that they're protective of what they consider theirs. General (the blue heeler who just recently died) was extremely protective over his territory/people. When my grandmother showed him someone was okay and that they weren't there to do wrong, he was perfectly fine with them and went right up to them. But when it was someone he didn't know, he probably would've bit the crap out of them, had they come into the gate uninvited. And even when they were on the opposite side of the gate, he didn't stand down, barking aggressively and making sure they knew not to come in without proper invitation.

ANYWAYS, the only way we could get General not to run after someone, was to be right there with him and show him the other person was okay. Which consisted of talking calmly to him and petting him to calm him down while the other person was right there. Generally, the other person also got down and gave him a treat. But without showing him that the person was okay, he wasn't going to be cool with that person. And that's also with every blue heeler we've owned.

But it really sounds like she doesn't know how to introduce her dogs to people, and if that's the case, I don't believe she should be bringing them to work with her if they're that aggressive with people they don't know. And I say that with many many years of growing up with blue heelers and watching and helping my grandma/people around me socialize them. And with that being said, it also doesn't sound like they've been raised right. Like I said, the blue heelers we've owned were perfectly fine with new people as long as we were. And I would think you've interacted with her while the dogs were there (correct me if I'm wrong). These dogs may have just been brought up socialized the wrong way and they may never get used to you.

I really really hope this experience doesn't make you hate cattle dogs. If socialized properly and introduced correctly by the one they're closest to, cattle dogs are the best dogs you could ever meet. And honestly, one of the best dogs you could ever have. I can't tell you how smart and protective they are. They are amazing dogs when raised right. And I really do miss having them.


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