# Think She's Dying And I'm New to This Death Thing :(



## liesel (Feb 13, 2013)

After many trips to the vet we discovered what was first thought to be mycoplasm is actually an enlarged heart. Liesel's been given meds, but I'm not sure theyre working as well as they should have. Essentially I think she's slowly dying. But how do I know when its time that she is actually going to die? I just dont want her to die alone, but as the dying process is taking days I cant spend every single moment with her. Im trying to make her as comfortable as possible. Right now her breathing sounds awful, but I think she's still not quite ready to die yet. The other thing I don't understand I was always told bruxing is a happy sound. Every time she's out of her cage all she wants to do is cuddle me and she spends a lot of that cuddle time bruxing. Why is she bruxing if she's dying? Is she just that happy to be with me? She's always been a mommys girl but this seems odd since she sounds so congested that I wonder how she's happy? I feel like for a dying rat she's doing pretty well though I'll give her that. Maybe her meds are working, but her breathing is pretty weird for them to be working. Occasionally she'll sound really congested and constantly I can see her stomach going up and down at rapid speeds. When she was healthy it was not that obvious or that quick. By Monday the vet claims I will definitely know if her meds are working, but it sounds like a long shot and watching my baby girl I don't even know if she's gonna make it to Monday. The thing I don't get though is although she spends a LOT of time sleeping and lying around. She's still not completley inactive, every morning when I wake up at least one of her toys have moved positions and she's still eating and drinking a normal amount. Has anyone dealt with an enlarged heart before though? How will I know when it;s actually getting close to being over or does the fact that she's still eating/slightly active seem to be suggesting there's still hope her medicine may work? 
Also, worst case scenario if I loose her do I let me other girls know and how? They aren't cage mates because they fight too much still and we were working on immersion training but then Liesel started getting real sick and immersion kind of became less important. Arielle still doesn't seem to like Liesel, but Zoey and Liesel are friends now and before Liesel got sick would always play together between the cage bars. They were almost ready to play together without bars between, but like I said Liesel's illness put that on hold. I know Zoey's gonna notice when Liesel's gone, I've read some places to let her see the body and other places it says no don't cause she'll eat the body?? What's the right thing to do? 
I'm having such a hard time finding out anything about death because everythign online seems to send mixed signals. Some sites say do this others say the exact opposite so if anyone could help me to make Liesel's death as painless as possible and anyone could even let me know what to look for to show the difference between almost dying and actually dying so I can be with her when it's actually time that'd be much appreciated. I'm so scared this is the first girl I've lost. Like I said there is a chance these new meds may work and I'll know by Monday but even the vet basically said we're trying these meds to try them so that we have attempted all possible solutions, but they really may not work. I'm so sad right now Liesel was my first pet that was actually my own. It sucks to be quite possibly loosing her. I'm gonna miss her so much.


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## JoshDeMott2010 (Aug 25, 2007)

I am sorry to hear the bad news... 
If you are brave you may read this link to understand the condition and situation better...
http://ratguide.com/health/cardiovascular/congestive_heart_failure.php

What is the name of the medication your vet prescribed? 

My advice on death. If the unfortunate event such as death does happen It is and always will be my recommendation that you don't allow any other pet to have contact with the diseased. There are thousands of reasons for this, Please at that stage just have your beloved cremated and move forward with all the good memories. You can choose a burial but cremation is safer for everybody and everything. Discuss these options with your vet if need be. 

Let's be positive though. The vet could always be wrong about the heart condition especially if the vet isn't experienced with saving these little guys. A lot of people recommend exotic vets for that very reason Treat the respiratory issues and continue to love and care for the rat on a positive note. Make sure the environment conditions aren't the cause of the respiratory issues... The Mycoplasm is something all rats have it's just a matter of time and situation that causes the flare up... Many rats survive this condition with proper care. If the heart becomes enlarged then the situation is a lot more dire. 

Medicines:The following medications may be prescribed for CHF. Information on the use of these drugs can be found listed in the Rat Medication Guide. 

Lasix (a diuretic). May be used as a diagnostic tool to determine CHF (quicker acting than enalapril).
Enalapril (or similar ACE inhibitor). May also be used as a diagnostic tool. (*Note: results may take up to three days).
Atenolol (or similar beta blocker).
Digoxin/Cardoxin in dilated cardiomyopathy. (*Note: use with extreme care if hypertrophic cardiomyopathy suspected.)
Pimobendan (in the same therapeutic class as digoxin, but is both a positive inotrope and vasodilator)
Theophylline may be of some benefit as it is able to stimulate heart muscle giving it a slightly positive effect on heart strength, as well as, being able to relax smooth muscle allowing for bronchodilation making it easier to breathe in pulmonary congestion secondary to heart failure. 
Citation:http://ratguide.com/health/cardiovascular/congestive_heart_failure.php

Nursing Care 

Provide one level cages to prevent difficulty to breathing from the exhaustion of climbing different levels.
Ensure food and water is within easy reach.
Monitor for weight gain, which indicates fluid retention.
Prevent drafts or extreme temperature changes which increase workload of the heart.
Monitor effectiveness of meds to see if there is improvement in condition. Medications may need to be adjusted or increased as disease progresses. If you see your rat’s condition worsening return to the vet for proper adjustment of medication.
Provide for adequate nutrition. Including such supplements in the diet as, omega-3 oils in flax oil (25 mg/day), co-enzyme Q10 (10-30 mg/day), L-carnitine (25 mg/day), and taurine (50 mg/day) may be helpful. [SUP]3[/SUP]
 Outcomes 

Relief of heart failure symptoms.
Enhance heart’s performance.
Improve quality of life.
Emotional support for those having to consider euthanasia for their rat.
 Prevention 

Maintain healthy environment.
Ensure a healthy diet in order to prevent obesity.
Ensure adequate treatment is provided for any illness.
Information from:http://ratguide.com/health/cardiovascular/congestive_heart_failure.php


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Bruxing is also done in times of severe stress.

One of the tell-tale signs of impending death is the "death gasp". It looks a little different with all rats, but you know it when you see it. It looks like silent gasps for air. When you see that, it's time to say goodbye.

Unfortunately, until then, it is not easy to know exactly what's going on in that little body.


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## liesel (Feb 13, 2013)

Thanks for you input guys, 
I will definitely be sure to keep zoey away form liesel then in the event that she does pass. Since Liesel's gotten so sick I've tried to have them separate, the vet doesn't seem to think she's contagious, but I'd rather not take chances and loose all my girls. Plus I dont think Zoey's rowdiness will be good for Liesel right now. 
Watching youtube videos I have an idea of what the death gasp may be and if I really will know it when I see it, I haven't seen it yet. 
Liesel is currently on two different medications. One is Furosemide Syrup 1% that she takes at 10am and 10pm every day. and the other is called Enalapril which is she takes once a day at 10am with the Furosemide. She literally just started that Enalapril though so if it does really take 3 days to take affect maybe that's why they said they won't know if the medicine is working until Monday. She also use to be on Baytril, but recently it stopped helping which is what led to the xray that found her heart to be enlarged. Also with all her medicines the dosage is 0.1 ml each time.


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## Andyurgay (Jun 10, 2013)

I'm so sorry you and your rattie are having to go through this... Its a horrible feeling when a beloved pet gets this sick. I'm glad you are doing what you can for her and I wish you both all the luck in the world.



But if it comes down to it, the meds aren't working and she is continuing to struggle to breathe, I think putting her to sleep would be the kindest and easiest option if you want to be with her when she passes. Rats can pass very quickly and suddenly so you may not be there with her when it happens. If she is really sick and struggling without improvement, I think the best idea would be to have her PTS so she can stop suffering and you can stop torturing yourself with the what ifs of wondering when she will pass. 


I have my fingers crossed for her.


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## liesel (Feb 13, 2013)

Good news! So far Liesel is improving medically! She's still not 100% herself, but she is eating as much as usual, playing, and running around more than she was although still not as much as she does when she's healthy. Her breathing has also muchly improved although its not as good as it should be yet. The vet claims though even the fact that she's improving so much is a really good sign and within 4 more days she should be back to normal health. Maybe my baby's just that miracle rat who survives these sort of things


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## JoshDeMott2010 (Aug 25, 2007)

Awesome! please keep us posted glad to hear some good news.


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## liesel (Feb 13, 2013)

Liesel's improvement stopped. She was getting much better then suddenly just stopped getting better and got stuck at this stage where she bruxed less, and her breathing was better than before but still not perfect. Just within the last 30min though her heart rate increased like crazy, she's bruxing again, and her breathing is just as bad as when i started this post. Not sure what's going on, vet is closed til tomorrow morning.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Somebody on my Facebook feed thought something was chronic myco turned out to be chf. Switched to a specialist vet and discovered it was stiff lungs. How well do you trust your vet?


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## liesel (Feb 13, 2013)

Well the first problem with vets is there is only two in my area that i can go to without making an actual trip there and staying somewhere overnight before coming back. The first one costs a ridiculous amount of money and isnt a specialist , like ur average vet visit would be $150 if your rat was healthy! it's insane. The one I go to is pretty good with her though she figured out about the enlarged heart via an xray they did while they also held her for 7 hours just to observe her. i'd imagine that between observing and the xray they hopefully did diagnose her right. :S


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## liesel (Feb 13, 2013)

so i gave liesel a bit of Baytril tonight (the old stuff she was on). Seemed to hugely help her! She literally went from having difficulty with everything to breathing relatively good and running around with as much energy as she use to have. I'm going to let the vet know about that tomorrow maybe she still needs the baytril regardless of what the vet thought ? I am so confused by all this.


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## TNCraftyRat (Nov 13, 2013)

liesel said:


> so i gave liesel a bit of Baytril tonight (the old stuff she was on). Seemed to hugely help her! She literally went from having difficulty with everything to breathing relatively good and running around with as much energy as she use to have. I'm going to let the vet know about that tomorrow maybe she still needs the baytril regardless of what the vet thought ? I am so confused by all this.


Vets can make mistakes too but, I am glad to hear the medicine helps and your girl is feeling better.


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## Kuraudia (Jan 15, 2014)

Is she doing any better?


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## liesel (Feb 13, 2013)

Liesel was getting better but I think her little body's just too weak to fight this. She's constantly got labored breathing now and it seems to get worse daily. Her tail and feet are turning blue. I think I'm gonna have to put her down soon. Every time she seemed to show improvement it was only temporary. Tonight when I picked her up and lightly touched her poor blue paw she snapped at me. She nipped me fairly hard though it didn't break skin then ran off and started chewing my phone case. She's never done that and she hasn't bit me since I first got her and had to teach her it's not okay to bite. She still eats and drinks but she barely moves and sleeps all the time. The thing I can't figure out though is every morning when I wake she'll have rearranged her toys from last night so she's obviously still doing some playing. Still I feel like maybe it's time to let her go she's suffering a lot.


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## liesel (Feb 13, 2013)

The other thing I'll add that I find weird is 24/7 she wants to be near me. She won't leave my side unless I make her. She's generally sleeping but it always has to be beside me. Is this normal? I guess I sort of assumed she'd want her space but she definitely doesn't. Is there something I can do to help make her comfortable until Monday when the vet reopens and I can look into getting her put down maybe :'( I just hate seeing her suffering so much. It's also hard to acknowledge her sisters while she's striving for my attention so much but they should be okay for a few days with just each other right? Liesel just suffering so much I want to give her the attention instead of making it worse.


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## Simons mum (Dec 19, 2013)

I feel her sisters will be just fine while you tend to her. She needs you most now and it sounds like her time is coming and she probably knows it.  She will depend on you to do the right thing and not let her suffer. This is the hardest part of owning animals, and you are doing everything right. I am so hoping she has a good turn around and is better by Monday. If she's eating and drinking plus moving her things around at night, it seems she still fighting to get better. You'll know when the time is right, but for now keep loving on her as much as you can. Hugs to you for being such a good ratty mum. xo


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## liesel (Feb 13, 2013)

Unfortunately liesel passed away last Sunday night  . She was playing tag with my younger brothers and suddenly just got very tired. This has been pretty normal since she got sick. But this time I didn't make it to the bottom of the stairs before she started doing the rat death gasp. I held her as she curled into my chest and then when she knew it was time she got up walked off of me and collapsed. It was soo sad. She fought so hard but at least her suffering is over. RIP my little liesel. Arielle and mostly Zoey keep looking for her. Is there anything I can do or will they just clue in in time that liesel is gone?


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## Gannyaan (Dec 7, 2012)

Poor little baby... I am tearing up reading this. You are a great rat mom.... I think they will figure it out eventually.... She was a sicker gal, and I'm guessing they knew that.... 


I'm so sorry for your loss. You did all you could. 


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