# Most toxic place on the internet? I think so.



## Verminica (18 d ago)

I’ve been trying to connect with other rat owners to just share pictures and funny stories or maybe ask some questions here and there if something comes up. I tried r/rats. I’ve tried a rat discord. Then I came here. Forums are like for my generation of old people so maybe there would be a little more tact and consideration. Nope. For one I research everything I do, so unless I’m specifically asking a question don’t come at me with the _gasp_ you’re doing this WRONG!! I’ve had my bedding judged (it’s dust free), I’ve had my cage judged because from one tiny picture of a corner of it someone thinks it is too small (again I did the research!) or because the type of shelving can cause bumblefoot (maybe if I were a slob who didn’t clean anything IVE DONE THE RESEARCH), I’ve had my actual RATS judged and told they’re better off being fed to a snake than to be alive because of WHERE I GOT THEM. I come here and within hours of posting my first posts I already have someone hunting through everything I’ve said commenting on all of it saying everything I’ve done wrong. Rat communities are completely saturated with elitist know it alls. This needs to be fixed.


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## AdoreRats (3 mo ago)

Not really, the cage clearly had mesh levels. I'm going to say something about it.
I'm going to say hamster balls are horrible for any animal, because they are. You even said 'torturing'.

If you don't want people to tell you these things, maybe don't post the picture, or crop it. No clue what you mean by "know it alls", anyone should know that. 
The point of a forum is for people to share experiences, help people and give advice.
I never said you're doing it wrong.


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## CorbinDallasMyMan (Feb 24, 2017)

I'm sorry you've found this forum to be toxic. I think we all need to consider our tone sometimes.

Congratulations on your new rats and your new cage. I also immediately got more rats after upgrading to the DCN!


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

CorbinDallasMyMan said:


> I'm sorry you've found this forum to be toxic. I think we all need to consider our tone sometimes.
> 
> Congratulations on your new rats and your new cage. I also immediately got more rats after upgrading to the DCN!


Like I understand wanting the best for the rats and I know there’s a lot of people who get them and don’t put in the effort because they’re “just rats”. I’m totally here to learn too I want to share ideas but idk especially after the comment about my rats being better off dead I’m triggered as **** when someone tries to give their snarky input.

I LOVE this cage so much! The enrichment possibilities are endless! I can’t Wait to see them all in it after quarantine and introduction periods!


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## CorbinDallasMyMan (Feb 24, 2017)

Verminica said:


> ...but idk especially after the comment about my rats being better off dead...


Nobody on RatForum said this to you, did they?


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

CorbinDallasMyMan said:


> Nobody on RatForum said this to you, did they?


No that was discord. And I was the one who got kicked out for having words about it.


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## CorbinDallasMyMan (Feb 24, 2017)

Oh, the ratsratsrats discord is something else! It seems like it's dominated by just a couple of people who spend all of their time there. I wasn't terribly impressed with either the format or the community.

Just a note about your experiences here; One person who has only been a member for, like, five minutes isn't necessarily representative of how we all do things. I hope you stick around and continue to contribute to this community. We all have lots to learn from each other's experiences.


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

CorbinDallasMyMan said:


> Oh, the ratsratsrats discord is something else! It seems like it's dominated by just a couple of people who spend all of their time there. I wasn't terribly impressed with either the format or the community.
> 
> Just a note about your experiences here; One person who has only been a member for, like, five minutes isn't necessarily representative of how we all do things. I hope you stick around and continue to contribute to this community. We all have lots to learn from each other's experiences.


Thank you! Yeah I really like how this forum is kinda a treasure trove of information like even how to make your own little hideouts! How cool!


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## SonicRat (Jun 30, 2021)

Yeah dont bin us off just yet😄this is actually a great forum with some really good people on here.I have also had bad experiences in the past with rat forums imploding with huges egos and arguing but there is generally nothing like that on here,any strong opinions expressed by anyone on here is only from the point of view of passionately caring about rats welfare,so imo ,can be forgiven.


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

yeah it wasn’t so bad on here as it was on discord, it was just by the time I got here I was like ffs leave me alone. Like I feel like on here there’s a treasure trove of information already out there to be discovered. It is an excellent resource, no need to lecture.


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## mewpixel (4 mo ago)

I understand what it can be like, I especially know from keeping reptiles as well, people can be VERY opinionated. At least for me, I've never been judged here at all, and never been told anything i've done is wrong or incorrect, so hopefully if you stick around it won't happen again, maybe it was just unfortunate it happened here too, everyone I have spoken to has been lovely, so hopefully you'll have a better experience going forward


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## AdoreRats (3 mo ago)

I'm pretty sure you're talking about me, and I'm sorry, I didnt mean to annoy or upset you. I tried saying it in a friendly way, it's very hard knowing what tone people are speaking in. Your rats are adorable though, I hope you stay on this forum for a while.


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## RatHole (7 mo ago)

Verminica said:


> I’ve been trying to connect with other rat owners to just share pictures and funny stories or maybe ask some questions here and there if something comes up. I tried r/rats. I’ve tried a rat discord. Then I came here. Forums are like for my generation of old people so maybe there would be a little more tact and consideration. Nope. For one I research everything I do, so unless I’m specifically asking a question don’t come at me with the _gasp_ you’re doing this WRONG!! I’ve had my bedding judged (it’s dust free), I’ve had my cage judged because from one tiny picture of a corner of it someone thinks it is too small (again I did the research!) or because the type of shelving can cause bumblefoot (maybe if I were a slob who didn’t clean anything IVE DONE THE RESEARCH), I’ve had my actual RATS judged and told they’re better off being fed to a snake than to be alive because of WHERE I GOT THEM. I come here and within hours of posting my first posts I already have someone hunting through everything I’ve said commenting on all of it saying everything I’ve done wrong. Rat communities are completely saturated with elitist know it alls. This needs to be fixed.


In the short time I've been here, I've never witnessed any shaming or outright hate. On the contrary, there's many members that pour their heart and soul into helping others with their issues. This is far from a toxic community. You can't interpret every bit of constructive criticsm as a personal attack; we are all here to learn and support each other.


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

RatHole said:


> In the short time I've been here, I've never witnessed any shaming or outright hate. On the contrary, there's many members that pour their heart and soul into helping others with their issues. This is far from a toxic community. You can't interpret every bit of constructive criticsm as a personal attack; we are all here to learn and support each other.


I’m definitely not usually the type to interpret constructive criticism as a personal attack. I appreciate helping each other and offering different ideas. Nicely, without coming off as a know it all. When something someone is doing is downright dangerous or harmful it should definitely be mentioned to them! Again, Nicely… now that being said there are things called opinions. Choice of bedding is an opinion as long as it is not toxic. I had someone on another board telling me pine would be better for my girls than the low dust paper bedding I have. That’s dangerous information to be putting out there. Still open to suggestions just not that one. Again my worst complaints come from other boards including people saying my rats should be dead because they’re going to be aggressive (news flash they’re not) and diseased because I got them at a small local pet store that uses local breeders, but they hear the word pet store and go NEUROTIC even going as far as to say that they’re personally disabled and wish someone would feed them to a snake… definitely something that should be reported to the police and welfare checks be done in my country… maybe not canada. The comments I recieved here weren’t as bad as from these other places but like I’ve said before I’ve been straight bullied and I am a little triggered, and for The literal first comments I get on here to be someone to be telling me how I’m doing things wrong (in their OPINION) I just immediately looked up how to delete my account, found out I can’t, ignored them, then went on to vent here.


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

Also I think I need to make a post on exactly HOW to offer constructive criticism, something I learned in school. “I feel” or “I think” statements are a more effective way of getting a point across than “you” statements.


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## RatHole (7 mo ago)

Verminica said:


> Also I think I need to make a post on exactly HOW to offer constructive criticism, something I learned in school. “I feel” or “I think” statements are a more effective way of getting a point across than “you” statements.
> [/
> 
> 
> ...


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

Thank you!


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## PeekaBoo (Dec 22, 2021)

@Verminica I think people have very bad opinions of pet stores even in concept, but I have seen a lot of misinformation about the quality of rats one might get from a store vs directly from a breeder. My very first rat was from a store, this was back in college in 1995, less access to info on anything and a lot of the info out there (like needing to bathe your rat/clean its tail) would now be considered not only misguided but inhumane. I did everything wrong — I had a single rat, his first cage was an aquarium-type cage, I used pine bedding, etc. But this little boy, “Stinker,” was so intelligent, adorable and affectionate that I knew at some point I would have rats as pets again (though I didn’t know it wouldn’t be for 23 years). Stinker was a “feeder“ rat, sold from a bin a pet store, with the sweetest temperament. Knowing now, though, how much I got wrong and how lonely he must have been tears me up inside. 

When I started with rats again a few years ago, I initially got two brothers from a breeder — both sweet boys, and both died fairly young (one with chronic mycoplasm, one with pituitary tumor). I also adopted a dozen rats from a local rescue, including five baby brothers who were born to a pair of feeder rats meant to be snake food but left when Covid hit. These offspring of two ”feeder” rats were amazing, with lovely dispositions, very playful and sweet to humans and to one another. Five big males who never needed to be neutered, who spent their lives together and never fought or caused me any worry, who slept in snuggle piles and doted on one another. 

So yeah, I do think people make the mistake of associating some of the negatives of the pet store environment and the “feeder” industry with the actual rats involved, as if any rat that is part of a problematic system must itself be “defective” somehow, but that is simply not true. I also feel that many “rat folks” don’t put the same kind of scrutiny into Breeders, even though there are no real bars to becoming a breeder or setting up a Rattery, and there are many breeders more interested in delivering the most popular colors and coats than they are in the health and temperament of their rats, or in who adopts them. 

I do hope you’ll give this forum a chance. Yes, sometimes there is snark here — and often very spirited debate, but I do believe, even in disagreement, most of us try to be polite and understanding. We all have questions that need answers, and we’ve all made our fair share of mistakes in our quest to become better rat caretakers. We do our best when we learn from one another. So welcome to the forum, and I do hope you stick around and share.


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

PeekaBoo said:


> @Verminica I think people have very bad opinions of pet stores even in concept, but I have seen a lot of misinformation about the quality of rats one might get from a store vs directly from a breeder. My very first rat was from a store, this was back in college in 1995, less access to info on anything and a lot of the info out there (like needing to bathe your rat/clean its tail) would now be considered not only misguided but inhumane. I did everything wrong — I had a single rat, his first cage was an aquarium-type cage, I used pine bedding, etc. But this little boy, “Stinker,” was so intelligent, adorable and affectionate that I knew at some point I would have rats as pets again (though I didn’t know it wouldn’t be for 23 years). Stinker was a “feeder“ rat, sold from a bin a pet store, with the sweetest temperament. Knowing now, though, how much I got wrong and how lonely he must have been tears me up inside.
> 
> When I started with rats again a few years ago, I initially got two brothers from a breeder — both sweet boys, and both died fairly young (one with chronic mycoplasm, one with pituitary tumor). I also adopted a dozen rats from a local rescue, including five baby brothers who were born to a pair of feeder rats meant to be snake food but left when Covid hit. These offspring of two ”feeder” rats were amazing, with lovely dispositions, very playful and sweet to humans and to one another. Five big males who never needed to be neutered, who spent their lives together and never fought or caused me any worry, who slept in snuggle piles and doted on one another.
> 
> ...


I agree. I think the problem is really with the industry not the actual rats themselves and people are confusing the two. I completely understand being upset with animal breeding industries and boycotting things I was vegan for 6 years. At the store where I got mine they have separate males and females, of various colors and either “fancy” or dumbo. I think they have Rex too but I have only gotten fancy and dumbo. Then in a separate tank (yes tank that’s the only part I have a complaint about) they have the white ruby eyed “feeders”. I also had a white feeder when I was a little kid named Lexi. She was precious I loved her. I have gotten one rat from a breeder, a dumbo agouti and she was the only one that didn’t get tumors. Instead she had a heart problem. So I’m pretty much expecting there to eventually be something wrong with these guys but does that mean I should feed them to snakes? absolutely not.


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## PeekaBoo (Dec 22, 2021)

@Verminica Unfortunately all rats end up with something or another — illness, tumors, heart problems, kidney failure —their life spans are inherently short biologically, they evolved in the wild to survive through numbers (rapid breeding starting at a very young age), whereas length of life is not “built in,” so they tend to “live fast and die young.” The shorter lifespan of a rat is built in to its DNA. There is only so much we can do to prolong their lives, and of course proper diet, a safe environment and veterinary care do quite a bit, but rats still age, get sick and die far too soon. While we can’t make their lives as long as we might wish, we can do a lot to enhance their quality of life. A life filled with love, ratty friends and lots of enrichment in the environment is the goal, even if that life is all too short… 

And you don’t need to justify the fact that you got your rats from a pet store to others — really, the entire pet rat industry is an unregulated Wild West from pet stores to breeders, and as far as I’m concerned it’s not about where someone gets a rat, it’s how they treat them. Someone can get the fanciest of breeder rats from the most reputable breeder, yet still neglect and mistreat those rats. Someone else can get rats from a feeder bin at a reptile store and give them lives filled with play, attention and enrichment. We should stop judging one another by where our rats came from and look more at the quality of life we are trying to provide for them. I mean, the whole point is we all love our rats, right? So if we start with that understanding, maybe we can be a bit more charitable in our debates…


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

PeekaBoo said:


> @Verminica Unfortunately all rats end up with something or another — illness, tumors, heart problems, kidney failure —their life spans are inherently short biologically, they evolved in the wild to survive through numbers (rapid breeding starting at a very young age), whereas length of life is not “built in,” so they tend to “live fast and die young.” The shorter lifespan of a rat is built in to its DNA. There is only so much we can do to prolong their lives, and of course proper diet, a safe environment and veterinary care do quite a bit, but rats still age, get sick and die far too soon. While we can’t make their lives as long as we might wish, we can do a lot to enhance their quality of life. A life filled with love, ratty friends and lots of enrichment in the environment is the goal, even if that life is all too short…
> 
> And you don’t need to justify the fact that you got your rats from a pet store to others — really, the entire pet rat industry is an unregulated Wild West from pet stores to breeders, and as far as I’m concerned it’s not about where someone gets a rat, it’s how they treat them. Someone can get the fanciest of breeder rats from the most reputable breeder, yet still neglect and mistreat those rats. Someone else can get rats from a feeder bin at a reptile store and give them lives filled with play, attention and enrichment. We should stop judging one another by where our rats came from and look more at the quality of life we are trying to provide for them. I mean, the whole point is we all love our rats, right? So if we start with that understanding, maybe we can be a bit more charitable in our debates…


True. And they definitely die too early that’s the saddest thing about rats. I just heard last night though there was a rat that lived to be 7 years old!! And they don’t know exactly why but like you said my guess is dna. I hope that rat had babies lol. Unfortunately though for breeding purposes you don’t know how long a rat is going to live when you breed them🤷🏻‍♀️ so longer lifespan would be a hard thing to breed into a rat


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## PeekaBoo (Dec 22, 2021)

@Verminica There are a lot of stories about rats that live to be much older, and the oft-cited tale of “Rodney” (called a “common rat”) in the Guinness Book of World Records is that he lived to be 7 years, 4 months. But…there is strong evidence that Rodney, a pet in Germany, was actually a gambian pouched rat, and while that is a rodent is not only NOT a Rattus norvegicus domestica (our pet species), it isn’t even a “true” rat, but instead a muroid rodent from an African lineage. These ”rats” CAN live up to 7 years in captivity, and they are AWESOME — really, look them up, they are cute and smart and can be trained to detect land mines! Of course, this is all speculation. Guinness and the rat’s owner have never put forth evidence corroborating the info of Rodney’s breed or lifespan, and this was back in 1990 when the rat supposedly died. If this was possible, one would think there’d be rats documented in the three decades since then living at least close to that age, given the advances in medical care, nutrition, genetics and treatment of rats as pets, but that isn’t the case. Having a rat live to three is something to celebrate. I had one euthanized at 3 years, 8 months, but she was definitely an outlier (and would not have lived so long without 4 tumor removal surgeries). 

Lots of people talk about rats they had as kids living so much longer, but I tend to think most folks’ memories of rats living 5 and 6 years are colored by the age they were when they had their pet — usually these were rats they had as children, and we see time differently then, when a year seems like forever. People’s memories of childhood pet rats almost always have these pets living expanded lives. (Obviously I have a lot of opinions about what I see online, but not a lot of trust in it. I’m a stickler for source material and documentation. That said, there’s always a chance that Rodney was, indeed a super-aging Rattus norvegicus. I just tend to doubt until I see more evidence.)


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## AdoreRats (3 mo ago)

Verminica said:


> I just heard last night though there was a rat that lived to be 7 years old!!


Unfortunately the world record is fake, no rat can live to 7 years. 
If it did somehow live that long, it would not be in a good condition and very very unfair to keep it alive. 
I wish rats could live longer and not have so many health problems though.


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

i hadn’t considered that but I’ve heard of the pouched rat trained to detect landmines! So cool!


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## AdoreRats (3 mo ago)

Some have been trained to sniff out cancer in people! Rats are very clever little animals!


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

AdoreRats said:


> Some have been trained to sniff out cancer in people! Rats are very clever little animals!


Yes!! I was wondering about therapy rats or even like seizure sniffing rats.


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## LT_2022 (1 mo ago)

African Pouched rats have also been trained to detect landmines and tuberculosis in Africa and other countries. Training rats to save lives - APOPO


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## PeekaBoo (Dec 22, 2021)

@LT_2022 Yeah, I love those stories. Back before everything was wireless, there was a woman who trained rats to run through walls, pulling wires attached to a little harness to help bring “modern” wiring for the internet to schools in poor neighborhoods. They are so smart, so capable of learning complex behaviors. Of course I’ve never done training with mine, I just love on them…


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## mewpixel (4 mo ago)

PeekaBoo said:


> @Verminica Unfortunately all rats end up with something or another — illness, tumors, heart problems, kidney failure —their life spans are inherently short biologically, they evolved in the wild to survive through numbers (rapid breeding starting at a very young age), whereas length of life is not “built in,” so they tend to “live fast and die young.” The shorter lifespan of a rat is built in to its DNA. There is only so much we can do to prolong their lives, and of course proper diet, a safe environment and veterinary care do quite a bit, but rats still age, get sick and die far too soon. While we can’t make their lives as long as we might wish, we can do a lot to enhance their quality of life. A life filled with love, ratty friends and lots of enrichment in the environment is the goal, even if that life is all too short…
> 
> And you don’t need to justify the fact that you got your rats from a pet store to others — really, the entire pet rat industry is an unregulated Wild West from pet stores to breeders, and as far as I’m concerned it’s not about where someone gets a rat, it’s how they treat them. Someone can get the fanciest of breeder rats from the most reputable breeder, yet still neglect and mistreat those rats. Someone else can get rats from a feeder bin at a reptile store and give them lives filled with play, attention and enrichment. We should stop judging one another by where our rats came from and look more at the quality of life we are trying to provide for them. I mean, the whole point is we all love our rats, right? So if we start with that understanding, maybe we can be a bit more charitable in our debates…


I'm guilty of falling in love with pet store rats, and from my luck, my rats from breeders have had worse health than my petshop ones. obviously that is just luck, but it just kinda shows that getting petshop rats doesn't mean they won't be healthy or have a good quality of life. to call them 'snake food' as verminica said someone on discord did is extremely dramatic and rude lol


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

mewpixel said:


> I'm guilty of falling in love with pet store rats, and from my luck, my rats from breeders have had worse health than my petshop ones. obviously that is just luck, but it just kinda shows that getting petshop rats doesn't mean they won't be healthy or have a good quality of life. to call them 'snake food' as verminica said someone on discord did is extremely dramatic and rude lol


Yeah it was horrifying someone who claims to care about rats would say that. I really wish I had gotten that poor girly but I didn’t know how quarantining would work, as I wanted to get two more and only had one extra cage. As it ended up I didn’t even quarantine my new rats for as long as I wanted to because my cat decided to knock their cage off the table and I ended up just introducing them ASAP. I still think about the poor girl.


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## AdoreRats (3 mo ago)

mewpixel said:


> I'm guilty of falling in love with pet store rats, and from my luck, my rats from breeders have had worse health than my petshop ones. obviously that is just luck, but it just kinda shows that getting petshop rats doesn't mean they won't be healthy or have a good quality of life. to call them 'snake food' as verminica said someone on discord did is extremely dramatic and rude lol


The main thing is not supporting chain pet stores. The mothers are very unhappy and forced to keep breeding, after that they usually kill them. 
The babies may not be unhealthy, but usually they have been taken away from their mothers too early. 

It's better to adopt from pet stores, or get from breeders. 
My rats werent the healthiest or the biggest even though they were from a breeder.
Breeders who breed purely for healthiness are better. 

I'm sorry if I sound mean at all, I'm not trying to sound mean or rude!


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## RatHole (7 mo ago)

AdoreRats said:


> The main thing is not supporting chain pet stores. The mothers are very unhappy and forced to keep breeding, after that they usually kill them.
> The babies may not be unhealthy, but usually they have been taken away from their mothers too early.
> 
> It's better to adopt from pet stores, or get from breeders.
> ...


I couldn't agree more. I wish more breeders were focused on genetic health rather than asthetics. 

P.S. Your comments are always to the point and don't come off as being rude to me.


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

AdoreRats said:


> The main thing is not supporting chain pet stores. The mothers are very unhappy and forced to keep breeding, after that they usually kill them.
> The babies may not be unhealthy, but usually they have been taken away from their mothers too early.
> 
> It's better to adopt from pet stores, or get from breeders.
> ...


No I understand the argument and typically I wouldn’t get any animals from petsmart but this one lone rat really tugged at my heart strings. I currently got all my rats from a local pet store (not a chain) that uses exclusively local breeders. Like say you had an accidental litter, they’d pay you for the rats and sell them. They do this with their fish as well. It’s like the nicest pet store I’ve ever been to. Like are the animals definitely “responsibly bred”? I don’t think you can really guarantee that with any source but even my own child wouldn’t qualify as being “responsibly bred” so I’m not gonna put too much energy into worrying about that for my animals. I can’t help but think about the scene from Harry Potter where marge is like “if there’s something wrong with the bitch there’s something wrong with the pup” and Harry blows her up. Lol


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## mewpixel (4 mo ago)

AdoreRats said:


> The main thing is not supporting chain pet stores. The mothers are very unhappy and forced to keep breeding, after that they usually kill them.
> The babies may not be unhealthy, but usually they have been taken away from their mothers too early.
> 
> It's better to adopt from pet stores, or get from breeders.
> ...


no worries you don't sound rude at all! I completely agree. The ethics is horrible, I've never intended to buy from a chain, but I have previously from falling in love with a rat there. it does make me sad, but I definitely wouldn't recommend buying from pet stores if possible.

I agree completely, there's so few breeders who do health, once I've moved and hopefully can breed rats, I'm solely planning on breeding for health. I really want to create a line of super rats xd


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## mewpixel (4 mo ago)

Verminica said:


> No I understand the argument and typically I wouldn’t get any animals from petsmart but this one lone rat really tugged at my heart strings. I currently got all my rats from a local pet store (not a chain) that uses exclusively local breeders. Like say you had an accidental litter, they’d pay you for the rats and sell them. They do this with their fish as well. It’s like the nicest pet store I’ve ever been to. Like are the animals definitely “responsibly bred”? I don’t think you can really guarantee that with any source but even my own child wouldn’t qualify as being “responsibly bred” so I’m not gonna put too much energy into worrying about that for my animals. I can’t help but think about the scene from Harry Potter where marge is like “if there’s something wrong with the bitch there’s something wrong with the pup” and Harry blows her up. Lol


Yeah, local privately owned pet shops are as good as breeders imo, as almost always their animals are either bred by themselves or sourced from a breeder.


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## Cheesefather (5 mo ago)

Verminica said:


> No that was discord. And I was the one who got kicked out for having words about it.


do you have a link to the discord?


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

Cheesefather said:


> do you have a link to the discord?


I was kicked out so idk what it is.someone sent it to me and I don’t have that link anymore


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## Verucasdad (Aug 31, 2015)

I adopted a hairless rat from a chain pet store. His name was Bunker and he lived to be 3 years and 3 months old. He was also my first male as I had started with females. My first four babies came from a chain pet store, and all lived to be over 2 years old. My experience with breeders has been up and down. My shortest-lived rats came from a breeder. It's a matter of your conviction as to where you obtain your babies.


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## Verucasdad (Aug 31, 2015)

Cheesefather said:


> do you have a link to the discord?


• Discord | #rat-care-and-health | Rats Rule


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## Verucasdad (Aug 31, 2015)

Verminica said:


> No that was discord. And I was the one who got kicked out for having words about it.


• Discord | #rat-care-and-health | Rats Rule


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

Verucasdad said:


> I adopted a hairless rat from a chain pet store. His name was Bunker and he lived to be 3 years and 3 months old. He was also my first male as I had started with females. My first four babies came from a chain pet store, and all lived to be over 2 years old. My experience with breeders has been up and down. My shortest-lived rats came from a breeder. It's a matter of your conviction as to where you obtain your babies.


Yeah I feel like the best thing to do regardless is like to scope the individual rats for temperament. It can be tempting to pick a rat for the color but I’ve found if the rat doesn’t run from your hand and you can easily pick it up out of the habitat then that will be a good rat. I realize that says nothing about the health of the rat but if you want a rat that will actually enjoy your presence it probably shouldn’t be afraid of people from the beginning


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## jkkgron2 (6 mo ago)

Verminica said:


> Yeah I feel like the best thing to do regardless is like to scope the individual rats for temperament. It can be tempting to pick a rat for the color but I’ve found if the rat doesn’t run from your hand and you can easily pick it up out of the habitat then that will be a good rat. I realize that says nothing about the health of the rat but if you want a rat that will actually enjoy your presence it probably shouldn’t be afraid of people from the beginning


YES!!! I currently have 3 rats that I got several months ago. 2 of them are sweet and totally fine with being picked up and enjoy interacting with me. The third is extremely skittish (and was skittish when I got him). I still try to play with him and attempt to pick him up but he’s really scared of me. He’s getting better, but he’s still skittish. I don’t regret getting him but in the future I’m going to be more careful when I pick out ratties. He is still a great rat though


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## Verminica (18 d ago)

jkkgron2 said:


> YES!!! I currently have 3 rats that I got several months ago. 2 of them are sweet and totally fine with being picked up and enjoy interacting with me. The third is extremely skittish (and was skittish when I got him). I still try to play with him and attempt to pick him up but he’s really scared of me. He’s getting better, but he’s still skittish. I don’t regret getting him but in the future I’m going to be more careful when I pick out ratties. He is still a great rat though


I have two that are super lovey (which is surprising they’re girls) and coincidentally these two rats are very food driven as well lol coincidence? I think not lol. But my one rat is older and I kinda blame myself for her skittishness because I went to the hospital for a month right after I got her and my husband was intimidated about taking the rats out so she didn’t get socialized really early on. Still if I force my affection on her and put her on my shoulder she eventually bruxes. And my other rat is a little skittish but I think it is mostly high energy because she’s young as she will come up to my hand and lick it then run off so I feel like she’ll come around.


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