# I have had my rat 12 days, and she is getting fat, please help.



## CJMoore

Twelve days ago I got my two female rats from Petco. On the tenth day I noticed that Kitty was bloated. I posted here and was told it could be Megacolon. We called the vet and decided it was best for Petco to bring her in. Petco brought her to the vet. They said she was perfectly healthy. When I asked if she was pregnant I was told that the vet said rats can't get pregnant until nine weeks and they Kitty was only eight weeks old. So, now I am thinking the vet isn't very smart. Petco wouldn't pay for an x-ray.

Kitty's behavior changed today. Yesterday she snuggled me and let me hold her, she was calm and sweet. Today she runs away from me and when I do pick her up she is frantic to get away, which is why I couldn't get a picture of her belly. I separated the girls and gave both of them nesting materials. Kitty started tearing up the paper and Saki didn't. I saw Kitty laying on her side in the nursing position. Her belly is noticeable bigger and feels kind of firm compared to her sister.

These girls left the breeder two weeks ago and their age is unknown. Petco told me three months when I bought them (would make them 3.5 months now). The vet said eight weeks yesterday. When I look at pictures of other rats they seem to be 8-10 weeks old.

I think that pregnancy is better than Megacolon but my Mom isn't so sure! I just want Kitty to live. We don't know how to care for a litter of rats and I doubt if Kitty does either since she is just a baby herself. She only weigh 150 grams.

Do you think she is pregnant? The pictures don't make her look too fat, but I can tell her belly has grown a lot.


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## nanashi7

An exotic vet can determine pregnancy without needing an x-ray. I would really recommend taking her in, as the vet can also tell you if she is sick or when she would give birth.


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## PurpleGirl

Female rats can become pregnant as early as 5-6 weeks, not 9, so it would be quite possible for her to be pregnant, although from the limited view of the angle on your pics, she doesn't look that big to me. That vet you saw sounds like they're maybe not so good with rats, as nanashi said an x-ray shouldn't be necessary to determine pregnancy. 
You're probably right that pregnancy would technically be better than the deadly megacolon, even though at a very young age a pregnancy is not good for a rattie, it takes a heavy toll on one so young; if she does turn out to be pregnant then I would probably expect a small litter with some stillborns. If she doesn't know what to do and doesn't feed them/encourage them to toilet, the babies would die pretty quickly. Kitty would need a lot of extra protein to help keep her strength up after something so taxing on a small body as labour. If any babies lived, you'd have to seperate the boys at 5 weeks, and start looking for homes for them, they can go after they hit the 8 week mark but it's good to line up new owners before then.
There could also be the simple possibility that she's constipated, in which case you could help that by giving her lots of juicy fruit or veg, like cucumber, grapes and strawberries. Extra fruit usually helps loosen their stools.


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## nanashi7

My rat was about 6 weeks? when she got pregnant. Had 14 babies, lost one. Rats only have 12 nipples, so it is stressful.
I would really really take her to an experienced vet (what kind of vet works at a chain Pet store? usually like vet techs around here...), because if she is 8 weeks and seems to be showing symptoms of MC it could be manageable. However, if it is not manageable it is best to have Kitty PTS early into it so as not to slowly suffer.


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## CJMoore

I am waiting for my actual vet who specializes in rodents to call me back. The vet Petco used was an actual vet. The vet has three rats of her own which clearly didn't make her an expert. Unfortunately the good vet is 45 minutes away and both my parents cars are broken down. I am hoping to get her to the vet tomorrow morning. I have been giving her watermelon and cucumber.


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## TexasRatties

She sounds like she is having pregnancy symptoms. I would get a one level cage set up so she can be separate to nurse her babies even a tub or tank with screen lid could work for the couple of weeks. I hope it isn't mega colon either but pregnancy is a lot of work too. Whether she goes to the vet or not you will know in about a week and a half.


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## AJ Black-Savage

Hope you get answers soon. Wish I could help but new to ratties myself. Keep us updated xxxxx


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## CJMoore

Kitty has made quite a nest now! We have decided to just expect a litter so we are studying up on what may happen. We have added eggs and more fruits and vegies to her diet. Still need to study up on how to help her gain more weight. I will post pictures of her and her nest tomorrow.

In other news, my fish has also made a nest and is laying eggs now! It is our understanding that Parrot Fish take about three tries in order to get any fish. Our foster mom is in heat again, she will be spayed next week since her kitten is just seven weeks old. We are pretty overwhelmed here but the main focus is on Kitty.


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## CJMoore

*She is fatter*

Here are some new pictures of Kitty. The last pictures shows that same view of Kitty that is in my avatar, 13 days later. She is a baby so she should be growing but she looks and acts pregnant to me. This morning her belly was much softer than before. 

I am excited to see the babies, but my mom tells me there are only two possible outcomes 1-all the babies will die and 2 - some of the babies will die. This makes me sad and angry at the people who let her get pregnant. I know there is also a third possibility, but we don't want to think about the possibility that Kitty won't make it. Of course we are still trying to hope she isn't pregnant at all and we are just dumb, but Kitty keeps acting pregnant...

Can someone please direct me to where I can get information on what she should be eating IF she is pregnant?

And, I know I shouldn't ask, but I really want to know - - What color and markings to you think the babies will have (IF she does have some)?


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## nanashi7

It's hard to tell unless you get her to stand up, stretch out to her full extent. I still hope you can get her into the vet.

You should expect some babies to die. Mine had 14, lost one. You also should be aware of other problems -- if you have other small animals, they should not be allowed in the same room as her and cannot be handled before handling the babies. Also look up megacolon, as many of my babies came out HW and if the are MC will have to be pts.

If she's pregnant she should definitely being eating lab blocks as her staple diet, with extra protein: wet cat food, dog kibble, eggs.

I can't help with colorings, as my babies came out with a pretty wide variety of markings (due to High-white) in different shades.


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## CJMoore

Sorry, I was unable to edit and I forgot to say...

nanashe7: Kitty doesn't seem to be in any pain, so if it was MC we wouldn't put her down yet. It is for that reason (and that our only working car at the time has no AC), that we aren't bringing to her the vet yet. If no babies arrive within the week, she will go then. She has already seen a vet at the best vet in our town.

TexasRaties: She is already in a single level cage because my rats are so new and so young that I haven't given them a bunch of stuff the climb on yet. I wanted them to get used to coming to me first. Saki is in a carrier next to Kitty and I take her out only when I am watching because Kitty seems much more energetic when Saki is out with her. I hope that is okay.


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## CJMoore

nanashi7 said:


> It's hard to tell unless you get her to stand up, stretch out to her full extent. I still hope you can get her into the vet.
> 
> You should expect some babies to die. Mine had 14, lost one. You also should be aware of other problems -- if you have other small animals, they should not be allowed in the same room as her and cannot be handled before handling the babies. Also look up megacolon, as many of my babies came out HW and if the are MC will have to be pts.
> 
> If she's pregnant she should definitely being eating lab blocks as her staple diet, with extra protein: wet cat food, dog kibble, eggs.
> 
> I can't help with colorings, as my babies came out with a pretty wide variety of markings (due to High-white) in different shades.


We have all been really careful to wash after holding and before holding the rats because we have a seven week old foster kitten. I looked at your babies, they are so adorable. I wished I had gotten one of them instead of going to Petco. I worry about any possible babies being HW since Kitty is HW too. We have read about that too. The problem is that my brain doesn't seem to hold all the information it needs too, maybe due to my worry about Kitty 

I will go find some dog food that is high in protein. Thanks for the tips, it really helps.


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## nanashi7

I have the same problem -- especially when it comes to genetics or science. Luckily, this is a great forum and the people on here are really helpful.

All you really need to worry about for the babies and megacolon is when they turn about 3 weeks old they will begin sampling hard food -- if any baby seems to not be going poo, or seems to look like a pregnant rat with the rotund abdomen, they should be taken to the vet to be examined and possibly pts.

For now, just worry about momma. Make sure she has a ridiculous amount of bedding to nest in, and remove and hammocks or hidey things. Labor for my female was super uneventful: I keep my rats in my bedroom and was simply checking on her while going out the door. I kept half her cage covered to help with light and sound, so I peeked in the blanket and there was bloody bedding and then I noticed a pinky. I quickly left the room and came back every twenty minutes to check the amount of blood, the number of babies and on momma. I didn't reach in and bother her. When she finished, she moved the babies to her nest. I gave her the night to rest without bothering her (I did take a picture to attempt a count). The next day, just lure her out of the nest (not while nursing -- I've learned my momma rat WILL leave off nursing if I ask her to :O) and see what she thinks of you. She can't be away from the nest for more than twenty minutes, and the babies can't be handled for more than a minute or two. When they reach about two weeks she can come out more and the babies (who should know have fur) can be handled for up to fifteen minutes at a time.


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## CJMoore

Thanks for the tips. I brought her lots of food for pregnant rats but she doesn't seem interested. Earlier today I tried to take a picture of her belly (thinking she still has about five days to go), I noticed that her vulva was much more pink than her sisters. Today she has been having periods of more labored breathing and she seems really tired and restless. She has been cleaning her bottom a lot. I am just so worried that this is MC and not a pregnancy and she is dying. The vet said she was healthy. Since it is Saturday night and we don't have an exotic animal emergency vet, I need to just stop worrying and let her be because I can't do anything to help her anyway. I will go cover her cage at least. Thanks!


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## nanashi7

She actually sounds like she might be in labor? My rat only cleaned down there and had red/pink due to the birth.


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## JLSaufl

Any updates on Kitty? I've been thinking about her (and you).


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## CJMoore

Thanks. I have nothing new to report. Sometimes she seems like she is in labor and other times she is up and about and fairly active. If she is pregnant I really want the babies to come soon because with her belly not too huge I can still hope for a small litter. I am hoping for six  My foster cat had just one baby, that would be awesome is my rat did the same!

[My fish is STILL laying her eggs!] <------probably not the update you were looking for!


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## JLSaufl

Well that's good, I guess.  I hope that everything works out OK in the end. 

As far as the fish, I used to raise guppies and cichlids. I LOVE fish babies.  It's so fun to watch them grow, you know, until the tankmates eat them. 

Good luck with all the babies and hopefully not babies happening at your house.


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## CJMoore

*Still no babies.*

I can't get a picture of her belly. I tried holding up a treat for her to reach for, instead she nipped my finger very lightly. I am not sure how to stop worrying about her. MC has similar symptoms to pregnancy. I am going to clean her cage today and look more closely at her poo. Last time I did this it looked normal with the exception of one that was oversized. The vet said it was normal. Unfortunately I just don't know enough. How many poo's should I expect to see in a day?

[I am going to try to relocate the baby fish, if any hatch, before they are ALL fish food  ]


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## nanashi7

Lol love the cat pic. 
I don't know the average number of poos, but oversized/smelly/squishy poos can be a result of diet changes (since you've been giving her protein). My male probably poos between 2-5 poos every time, but I don't count during the day.

My rat was a bit nippy and didn't want to be held much the three days leading up to birth. If you can get a hold of her without injury, you could "stretch" her out. Have you noticed any grooming away of hair around the nipples, or are her nipples now more prominent?

How long have you had her now, like 19 days?


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## CJMoore

I could see the nipples for the first time yesterday. I don't see any on her sister.

I have had her for 14 days. I first saw her at Petco 17 to 20 days ago (we can't remember the exact date because we didn't purchase anything that day.) I we have a few days still to wait.

This was the best photo I could get of her belly from yesterday.

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
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IF we get babies we are going to use a baby animal theme.


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## nanashi7

Looks like she is grooming away the hair on her nipples so I personally am gonna signal the all-clear for MC. It's hard to see nipples on non-pregnant rats, since it's all in the fur.


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## CJMoore

Thanks nanashi7! That is such a relief. We still don't have any babies but she made a second nest last night. I hope that doesn't mean she is planning a large litter  She just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Saki is still in a little cage to keep her separate and this just isn't going to do. We will be asking Petco for a large discount on an acceptable cage for her, after all it really is their fault that we need another one. 

Happily I found to local vets that take good care of rats. I will call them today so I can make sure they will see us when we need them and what to do in case of an emergency.


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## JLSaufl

Any new updates? 

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## CJMoore

No babies and today is her due date. Petco verified that she arrived on July 24th. The lady at my Petco takes excellent care of the animals I am almost certain Kitty didn't get pregnant there. I didn't see any male rats their when we got Kitty. I was told that it is their policy to only carry females in order to avoid accidental pregnancies. 

She is still very unhappy and seems uncomfortable. Yesterday when my daughter tried to pet her she bit her and drew blood. When I compare her belly to her sister, she was only slightly bigger, but from above she looks huge.












They are the same age. I know we still have to wait two days but I got her a vet appointment for tomorrow because now I am worried she is sick and not pregnant at all. But I can't imagine why a sick rat would take the time to build two nests.

It is so unfortunate that this had to be the beginning of my daughters rat ownership.


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## nanashi7

Let us know what happens! I'm hoping babies will pop out tomorrow if not tonight! My girl had hers around 9pm her due date.


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## CJMoore

We keep hoping the babies will pop out too! Yesterday I managed to weigh her since she finally went into the carrier on her own. She weighs 179 grams while her sister weighs 130 grams. I am hoping to get a weight today to verify that she is still pregnant. Today is day 22 (or more depending on when they got her pregnant).

I am not sure if I should keep her vet appointment today. I don't want to stress her out if she is ready to give birth. The "rat vet,: is on call at the ER tonight so I probably reschedule for Friday.

[Mama fish ate all the eggs yesterday, I hope doesn't loss her babies too.]


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## nanashi7

I would reschedule until Friday. Some figures I read said rats could give birth until day 26. Personally I would wait 2 or 3 days after to take her in. Regardless of what's going on her only symptom is fattiness right?


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## Mjcook0

Yea, I would agree. She doesn't need the added stress of a vet visit right now.


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## Mjcook0

She may also be stressing about being alone now that you took her sister out of the cage. I work at a pet store where we breed our own feeder rats( that's how I ended up with my two boys) and the females usually don't bother the babies. Even the male doesn't if he knows that they are his babies. If they have been separate for very long though you'll have trouble reintroducing them, especially after Kitty has her litter.
You will have to keep a close eye on her, this being her first litter she may not do the greatest job. Sometimes the inexperienced mothers won't remove the placenta and the babies will suffocate. I've had to remove the placenta for one of the moms at the shop a couple of times. First time moms also have trouble with milk production sometimes. You might have to supplement them with some KMR. Good luck to you! There is nothing cuter than a baby rats 


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## CJMoore

I rescheduled for Friday. Her symptoms are excess weight and aggression. I can't put Saki back in with her because Kitty attacks her when she goes in or near her nests. Re introductions might be tough but we plan to keep three rats when this is done. If Kitty has to be re-homed we will cross that bridge when we come to it. What is really sad is the Saki has no buddy now. My daughter wants to adopt her a friend now but then she can't keep a baby.

I am pretty sure she will deliver between noon today and tomorrow at noon because that is when I will be out of town


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## nanashi7

My female rat was very aggressive to anyone but me, including my male (her mate). She and I have a very close relationship so she never took aggression out on me -- she actually would pull my hand to her nest to groom and take care of me. Once the babies tuned 3 weeks old, she began to settle down. She no longer pulled babies into the nest if they wandered out. She is still cage defensive against strangers, but once out of the cage she doesn't bite anyone. I reintroduced my male (neutered) by letting them free range together once her mommy nerves calmed down. After a couple goes together outside the cage, I now have mommy and daddy rat living together with the babies.

I will admit that next week I will have to start training her to never bite anyone who enters the cage even if they are not me. It probably won't be fun but it is correctable given patience and time. Since she allows me to handle her I can retrieve her from the cage and allow a friend to handle her without problems. Next week the friend will start retrieving her from the cage with a mixture of reward and punishment -- trust training and then reprimands when she bites.


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## CJMoore

nanashi7 - That should be fun for your friend! That is sweet how much your rat loves she. Kitty didn't get much chance to bond with either me nor my daughter. Her sister though is such a love, my daughter is having a great time with her. She occasionally will come out of the cage to her. Once she is out she is a snugly little doll. I really hope our sisters will bond once this is over.

I managed to weigh Kitty and she gained four grams.


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## nanashi7

That could be a sign that PetCo maybe fibbed about when she came. 

Is her belly still big? Does it look like she swallowed a ball? If it does you want it to be firm if she is pregnant.


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## CJMoore

I know when she came because I volunteer at Petco with the foster cats and I had been checking the rats each time. What I don't know is if Petco got her pregnant. 

She doesn't look like she swallowed a ball, she won't let me touch her belly so I don't know if it is hard. Her belly looks bigger today than yesterday.

My weighing system isn't that great. I weigh the cage with and without her in it.


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## nanashi7

Is it a scale you can zero out? You could put the cage on, zero it and then add mama rat.

This is going to sound awful but maybe if you have a chopstick you could nudge her lightly to see if the belly acts firm or squishy. 

Some rats don't get the exaggerated ball shape, especially with smaller litters.


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## CJMoore

Still no babies!!!! Darn it. Do I sound frustrated? Last night I am pretty sure she swallowed that ball you were talking about. There is no doubt that she has the pregnant belly today. I can't poke her belly because she is completely buried in her nest. She only popped up to get the food I held up for her. 

When I had weighed her at 7 am yesterday she was 183 grams, my daughter then weighed her at 5 pm yesterday and she was 192 grams. I doubt she will get in the carrier for her morning weigh-in so I don't know her weight now. She is currently 57 grams heaver than her sister. I am guessing she has less than ten babies.

I can't do the trick you suggested with the scale because neither me nor my daughter can pick her up. We weigh the empty scale and then we weigh the scale with Kitty and subtract.

We still have the Aspen wood chips in the aquarium and Kitties nest is made of napkins torn up. The nest takes up about a fifth of the cage (it is 55 gallons). It the bedding okay? Can I give her some fleece?


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## nanashi7

She will probably shred the fleece, but if she is nippy you probably don't want to put fleece in as she will probably hide her babies beneath it. Aspen can be kind of dusty so personally I used paper bedding Carefresh Ultra was good.


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## CJMoore

*All done hoping for babies *

She weighs exactly the same this morning as yesterday  Her vet appointment is at 11:30 today. We are sad. Of course we are happy that we don't have to find homes for a bunch of babies. But now we just have a sick rat.


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## nanashi7

I still think it is likely that she is pregnant, since she shows some signs that are not related to illness. I hope the vet clears it up :/


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## CJMoore

I hate to bring her to the vet and stress her out further if she is indeed pregnant. I am going to try to talk to the vet before I go.


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## nanashi7

The vet was very good with my girl. Picked her up had a listen and put her back all before Caius could protest, and Caius was in such hormonal moods only I could feed her and her normal submissive self beat the crap out of my male. 
Just take the car ride easy have someone hold her Cage and talk to her. Keep it dark and cool the music low and she should be fine. Maybe throw in an extra special smelly treat like tuna wrapped in layers of paper towels to occupy her attention. 


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## CJMoore

Thanks nanashi7! 

I called the vet and the receptionist talked to the vet and said to keep waiting. They did say I could bring her in but that all she can do it verify whether she is pregnant or not. If the babies will be born they will be born and if not she isn't going to die today. The actual vet will call me later today. This is making me a little crazy. People with no knowledge what-so-ever shouldn't have pregnant rats! We are so unqualified for this.


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## nanashi7

Mama rat will do all the work for you, we just have to not go crazy lol. Trust me if she gives birth it'll get worse -- my girl managed a great heist while I was taking my boy to the vet, broke out of her cage and relocated 8 babies before I caught her! Had to slowly tear apart my room lifting furniture straight up to look for babies...


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## TexasRatties

As long as they get milk bands and she has an easy delivery it should be fine. I have never had a rat litter but hopefully it will go smoothly if she is prego.


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## CJMoore

Thanks guy, but I don't think we are going to get any live babies. Her weight for the last three days was 179, 183, and 183. I am really regretting not bringing her to the vet today. It is hard to give up hope.


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## nanashi7

Weight fluctuates in rat pregnancies, it could increase and decrease or remain the same. Can she be squeezed in tomorrow?

There's no reason to give up hope -- she's still energetic and eating, right? You've only got a fat meanie on your hands. If it was MC, she would be in pain lethargic and clearly failing to thrive. Instincts are a good thing to trust!


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## nanashi7

I just wanted to add, you saw where my girl was super fat and I thought she was pregnant again? False alarm! And she is such a brat to anyone except me to this day.
At this point I've realized while she was "socialized" to me, she hasn't been tamed. She'll take food from anyone, but if there is no food will *bite*! She is also just a fat girl, which is probably my fault because I give her food when there is none and supplement her with treats.


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## CJMoore

The vet that does rats is off tomorrow but I am going to call another one and see if they can get her in. She is still energetic and she is eating well. It is very likely that she is on day 23 today.

That is great news that your rat isn't pregnant again!

I wondered about my daughters other rat only liking her. I asked her if that trust would transfer to others and she didn't know. I have started trying to get her to like me too, and she does - just not as much. My daughter taught both rats to climb into her bra (I have an odd child!) so guess who tries to climb in my shirt every time I hold her? I wish we could enjoy both rats as much as we are enjoying Saki.

And...we don't want a fat meanie!!!!! She was a sweetie before she turned fat. We want our sweetie back. Both of us are scared to put our hands any where near Kitty.

Thanks for the encouragement


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## CJMoore

Still no babies and no weight gain. 

Thank goodness I didn't pay for a vet visit with the vet that was recomemded to me. I saw her today (our foster cat has a fever and dehydration, she isn't recovering well from her spay), she didn't know what no weight gain means and she said rats have 6-12 babies. So far we consulted two vets and neither one was knowlegeable. I have one more to try but she isn't very close by.

Today is day 24 unless Petco got her pregnant.


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## nanashi7

I really think PetCo might've got her pregnant. I've read of some rats going into day 26, and would think the lack of weight gain would mean she's close to birth (since there is also no loss, sorta a stasis). I didn't weight my girl though.

I use this vet list: http://www.ratfanclub.org/vetref.html
I checked and there is a vet in your area that's on it, I would hope that she's not the one you saw.


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## CJMoore

The vet that Petco brought her to was on the list  I got the information second hand from the vet because Petco wouldn't let me go. I am begining to agree with you about Petco. It is difficult for me to believe because I go there weekly and I talk the the lady in charge of the animals all the time. She is so loving and caring with every animal she touches. But, nice and intelligent are two different things. And, she was on vacation while Kitty was at the store... And, if they don't get thier rats pregnant why do they have a return policy for pregnant rats?


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## nanashi7

PetCo unfortunately does sell live feeders, so the typical amount of investment in their care you encounter in them by management is low even if the employees are nice.


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## Mjcook0

I work at a small pet store and we breed our own rats. I have seen our females give birth as early as 21 days and as late as 28 numerous times. Don't worry, she's just taking her time 


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## Mjcook0

Unfortunately for us rat lovers most vets don't have a clue. I went through my own vet difficulty recently with my Ari's URI. The vet had him on the wrong medicine and too low a dosage of it to boot! I always tell people research, research. There are a lot of great websites out there including this one.


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## CJMoore

This morning I noticed tiny spots of blood where she always sits on her nest. I am not too optimistic though. She is showing no signs of labor. I am glad this is nearly over either way. She is still eating and acting healthy. I wasn't able to weigh her, I figured it is best to leave her alone.


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## nanashi7

Blood can either mean she is in labor or there are labor complications. No pinkies? Mine were silent so it's not guaranteed you'd see them. Are her sides pinched or her breathing labored?


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## CJMoore

No babies but she has labored breathing. She made a noise I haven't heard before when a gave her fresh water. She is laying in a different position than we usually see. There was only a tiny bit of blood, little dots like from a red pen. I really hope she gets some live babies and that she makes it though this okay.

If there are complication I have no place to bring her  The vets who supposedly specialize in rats are not on call today.


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## nanashi7

I would monitor her. How long has she been at it with no babies? More than twenty minutes is a concern. Will she let you hold her (if you wrap a dish towel over your hands it should prevent bites)


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## CJMoore

She is not breathing heavily now. She doesn't show any signs of distress, she is just sitting/laying there breathing normally with her legs not positioned in a terrible comfortable looking position. I am pretty sure if we tried to pick her up it would do more harm than good, she has been afraid of us for the past 10 days.

I read that it is usually a few hours after the blood that the babies come, but it could be a day. Or, it could be a sign she is reabsorbing them.


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## nanashi7

Yes, I think she may be reabsorbing them. Try to make everything dark and quiet and not rat stressful. I waas just worried because my girl hardly bled she just sat there. Others have girls that get antsy and lay on their sides.


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## CJMoore

Nothing new to report except that Kitty did venture into the carrier and I was able to weigh her. She is up 10 grams since yesterday, her first gain in four days. Her spirit is still good. My daughter is expecting babies I am expecting to get our friendly rat back in a few days . My daughter was going to get to keep ONE baby so she really wants some to live. When all is said and done I will have to surprise with with another rat


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## nanashi7

I really wonder whats going on with her.

And when it was up in the air about my girl, I had decided to rescue two rats to balance out karma lol. Then I got blessed with 13 babies...


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## CJMoore

Lol! No new ratties here until Kitty is back to normal!


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## CJMoore

No blood, no babies, and no weight loss. She is up 5 grams. I think is may still be gaining because she is so young still. Saki gains about five grams a day. Maybe the three days of no gain were when she reabsorbed the babies? Or, she is still pregnant? Kitty seems a little more cheerful today, she even let me pet her.


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## nanashi7

How's the nipples and roundness?


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## CJMoore

I can't tell about the nipples because I don't have a camera and she doesn't stay up long enough for me to tell. She is about the same amount of round - but no bigger. She is definitely still considerably larger than her same age sister.I really expected a weight loss today. Since there was not a loss we are going to keep her in her nursery for another day or two. Today is the 22nd day we have had her so this will be over pretty soon, thank goodness. We are so grateful that she appears healthy.


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## nanashi7

Hm, have you been pummeling her with super extra protein since this all started? She may just have chubbed up from that, compounding the scare!


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## CJMoore

Kitty and her sister have been on the same diet and I did increase the protein 

I believe she was pregnant and she may still think she is, she keeps building her nests bigger. I removed one of the three nests this morning. I can't wait to get her into the awesome new cage with her sister.


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## CJMoore

I discovered a little more blood. She still seems fine.


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## nanashi7

Frantic nest building was a big clue that my girl was pregnant. If she doesn't mind, try to fuss up the nests. If she rebuilds them before you can get your hands out, I would try for the vet.


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## CJMoore

The vet office I just called seemed very good. The receptionist gave the vet all of Kitty's information and she told me the vet said to leave her alone because she may still deliver. She said the blood isn't a concern so long as Kitty is still eating and has some energy. She said I can bring her in today if anything changes and Kitty has an appointment for tomorrow night. Nanashi - thanks for your support through this whole thing, it has been so helpful.


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## nanashi7

It can be really stressful especially with it being the first rat! All you want to do is learn how to be a rat momma, and here now you are trying to learn how to care for rats and in ten days how to be a good breeder thanks to someones mistake haha


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## CJMoore

There is more blood and it is still a very small amount. Tiny spots on the napkin bedding. She is not very active now and I don't think she has been to the water dish all day. She is laying on her side and doesn't move or try to bite me. Is this what labor looks like? None vet is there until 7 tonight, but I can't leave until 6:30, because my son won't be home until then. I don't know how I can even get her into the carrier without hurting her.I am not officially very worried.


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## nanashi7

My girls labor was admittedly uneventful. I peeked in to check on her and she had a baby pop out.

If she is letting you touch her, without lifting her try to see as much as you can about her. Is her breathing even or as if she is gasping for breath? Does she squeak as if in pain? Is the pain located anywhere specific? Is her fur puffed up?
If you have some, offer a bit of watermelon without the seed. If not, try to bring the water bottle to her face. If she drinks, offer yogurt or some food for her.

How much blood over the last couple of days has it been? My girl didn't bleed until she was exactly in labor and ideally you never want a rat to be in labor without a baby popping out for more than 20 minutes. I would try to ask the vet if he could stay thirty minutes late to wait for you, explain the situation.


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## CJMoore

She isn't doing any of the things you said. She did take a few bites of the watermelon, she hasn't been to her water dish all day ): I am waiting for the vet to call back now.The blood has been a very very small amount. Two times it was dots on the bedding like a pen tip. One other time it looked "watery," very light pink but wet and not yellow. It covered an area about the size of two quarters on the bedding.I think the vet is currently dealing with another emergency, I hope she calls soon.


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## nanashi7

I hope the vet is in and will understand. I think she should be taken in. I would keep offerring water melon as it will rehydrate her.


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## CJMoore

We will be going in at 7:30 tonight. Now I have to figure out how to get her in the carrier. I have to stop worrying about any possible babies, and start worrying about mama.


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## nanashi7

If possible, could she be taken in the cage she is in? It would cause less stress.


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## nanashi7

If not I would darken the room and the carrier, pick her up gently in a towel or used shirt and place her in the carrier. Can the carrier have some of her bedding in the current cage in it?


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## CJMoore

Kitty's lack of energy has disappeared since I put the carrier in her cage. She dug two tunnels in her bedding, tried to make a new nest AND got a drink of water. She has yet to climb into the carrier on her own though!


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## nanashi7

I would still take her in so the entire matter is solved once and for all lol. Put some watermelon in the carrier. I'm glad to see she chipped up though!


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## nanashi7

Any news?


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## CJMoore

The vet said she didn't feel any babies. She doesn't know why Kitty is bleeding, she guesses it is either a urinary tract infection or a uterus infection. She said she will give me antibiotics tomorrow if the bleeding doesn't stop by then.She said we should put her back with her sister in hopes that that will cheer her up.The vet said she has treated rats for 25 years but never a pregnant rat.


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## nanashi7

Did she check down south? I just worry about a lodged baby or a tumor.

I hope she gives you the antibiotics in any case.
Make sure to intro her to the sister somewhere neutral before adding her.

Might want to consider a spay of the girls if you've got the money.


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## CJMoore

The vet said her vulva looked fine. She didn't feel anything abnormal like a tumor, but she couldn't rule that out. I will pick up the antibiotic tomorrow after three.We already put the girls together, Kitty is delighted, as is Saki! We will let them play until our bedtime, and then Kitty has to go back in her cage so I monitor the bleeding. Plus, I don't want anyone getting hurt.My daughter is still afraid of Kitty since she bit her, I hope that doesn't last too long.

I plan to spay them both when they are big enough.


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## nanashi7

They are best spayed between 3-8 months.
I think while she is recovering, you should work on immersing her since you said she tolerates you. Once you get Kitty all sweet, you can show your daughter and hopefully she would trust her again. For my girl, she became cage aggressive with others and my boyfriend began to fear her because she would lunge and bite. When she came out to play though, she was on his shoulder and sweet as could be.


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## CJMoore

My daughter just came down all happy as could be. She held kitty with no problems. I guess watching the vet pick her up was all she needed. Happy rats and a kappa kid, yeah


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## nanashi7

Awww yay! Best wishes with Kitty's health as well as your mischief's happiness!


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