# Meet My Girlies (Update with pictures on page 4)



## Wench

Hiya guys!

I've had Angelina since December, she was given to me by a friend who had a bad allergic reaction to her. Doris is very sweet, but she can be a handful! She likes to get her own way and she hates to be in her cage (which is okay by me!), and she loves her treats.

She's about eight months old now and she's absolutely goooorgeous. She loves to come outside for walks with me when the weather is nice. If it's warmer she'll bounce along in my hood, if it's cooler she'll curl up against my chest inside my jacket and poke her nose out. 

I don't have a lot of pictures of her but these ones will have to do for now:



















My second rat (that I bought about an hour ago!) I don't yet have any pictures of, but her name is Millicent, or Mighty Milly because she is huge compard to Angelina Doris. I'll upload photos of her when I get some.


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## Sara_C

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Aaaw, they're both beautiful! Millicent is brave, coming out of her cage so soon after moving house! I don't think i've seen any other blacks on here...these two are the first blacks i've seen, anyhow


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Those are actually both pictures of Doris, I don't have any pictures of Millicent yet, she is a mismatched hooded something or other! I don't completely understand all of the colourations yet but I'm getting there!


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## DonnaK

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

What a beautiful girl! And I love the name Millicent! Most agreeable


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## Night

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Gorgeous girl!


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Thanks for the responses guys.  

The first night between Doris and Milly went pretty good. I usually will let Doris stay up late with me (I'm up all hours of the night), but last night I put her in the cage because Milly wanted to be in her cage as well, and I didn't think it was a good idea to give Millicent the impression that Doris was going to run free while she was going to stay locked up.

Doris spent the night in her cage and Milly spent the night in the travel cage I bought for introductions. 

I went into the store looking for a companion for Doris and I came out with two things. A true friend for Doris who it is fairly apparent will teach her a little ratty respect, and someone who desperately needs love and care.

After looking at her in the store it was fairly obvious she had not been cared for well. I can hear her sneezing and she has a cough, and she is getting on in age. I call her Millicent the Mighty because she is not fat, but much bigger than Doris. Doris is about eight months old and judging by her size, and the look about her, Milly is probably over the year and a half mark and has birthed a few litters. She seems well socialised but she is more inclined to spend time in the cage. She was brought into the pet store by someone who either didn't want her anymore, or simply couldn't keep her anymore. I am sure she will come out more often as she gets used to me and Doris. Last night she slept in a little fold of blanket and I stroked her while reading before I went to sleep and before the girls went back to their cages.

If anyone can give advice on what to do about Milly's respiratory problem I would really appreciate it. I am aware that she should see a vet soon but if there are over-the-counter medications that I can buy her to treat her at home I wouldn't mind hearing about those also. Even if it is a chronic age condition anything that will help her with the discomfort would be appreciated. 

On to introductions! When I bought Milly I took one look at her and thought - this old war horse is going to toss Doris on her wee butt, oh boy. She nipped my fingers through the bars (she has done this just once, never since, and I have put my fingers to her cage many times to show her fingers are for kissing and treats do not go through cage bars), but she did not seem to mind being picked up too much though it is more difficult to pick her up than it is Doris because of her size. 

To my surprise, when I brought Milly home last night, there were no confrontations between the two girls. I put a little extra virgin olive oil behind each of their ears so they both smelled similar and put them both in the bath tub to say hello. Well! They were neither of them very inclined to say hello, but to get out of the bath tub. Instead of getting introduced they both put all of their efforts into jumping out of the tub, so I took them out and decided to introduce them on my bed. There wasn't any real confrontation, but I was surprised to find Doris immediately took charge instead of the much larger Mrs. Bulstrode (Another nickname for Millicent, who is named after the very large Millicent Bulstrode in the Harry Potter books). She climbed all over Millicent, attempted to go for rides on her back, put her paws on her face, nicked food from her (I had to steal a pellet back from her so she wouldn't hide it under my bed and the fuss of screeching at me she kicked up was amazing. She is reeeealllyyyy not used to not getting her way). So this went on for about as long as Doris and Milly were together last night. There was no direct confrontation, just Doris bounding about and making a big show of being in charge.

The first outright confrontation came just about an hour ago, around 6:00 am (I went to bed early so I've been awake since 5:00), when Doris was once again batting Milly about the ears and being a little brat. When Milly first came here she hurt her paw (I am really not sure how. I just noticed her squeaking and licking her hand, her paw appeared to be bleeding slightly. Whatever it was she took care of it herself and she will now put the paw on the ground and walk around without any trouble, although I am still hesitant to touch her paw), and I think Doris must have nipped it or bumped it or something because Milly gave her the lashing of a lifetime. It lasted about two seconds. They were both sitting on top of the nest box together, there was some squeaking, and Doris was tossed to the floor on her butt. The look of "SHOCK HORROR!" on her face was too much and I burst out laughing. She sat there for a moment on her butt looking horrified and promptly took off like a rocket. 

She now treats Mrs. Bulstrode with much more respect, though I can see that there may be a few more lessons in respect to your elders before there is any hierarchy between them defined. Millicent is by no means a bully or ill-natured, but it is apparent to me that she will not be shown up by any whippersnapper.

I don't have any pictures of Milly right now and I won't tempt her out to be photographed because she is happily snoozing in the nest box. I'll definitely post some soon.


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## Night

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Although I do admire the fact that you'd take home an ailing, older rat, do you know about proper quarantine? Rats are *highly* susceptible to airborne viruses such as SDA and Sendai, which run rampant in pet store settings and pass to rats extremely quickly. Both viruses can be fatal if not treated immediately and aggressively with antibiotics and other medications. Proper quarantine separates and isolates the spread of disease. This includes bacterial infections, viruses, funguses, and parasites (both internal and external). All new rats (and other rodents, for that matter) need to be quarantined in a completely separate airspace (meaning a different house or apartment) for 3 weeks. During that time you observe them for any illnesses or symptoms, and treat anything that pops up. 

Introductions needs to be taken slowly - even the best introductions should take about a week or a little more. Although having a rat in a carrier for a couple hours (with bedding, food, and water, of course) is alright, it's not an acceptable cage for more than that amount of time. When you bring home a new rat with the hope of introducing them and bonding them to your previous rat(s), you need to plan ahead in case things don't work out. Make sure you have enough money for a second cage and be willing to get the new rat a cagemate of his/her own.

Considering her deplorable condition from your description, what medications is she on?


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

I wasn't aware of proper quarantining at all. Thanks for letting me know - I'm still new to this. I have no one who is able to take her though, I don't have a separate apartment she can go to. I can keep them in separate rooms of the house in separate cages, but that is the absolute best I can do. 

In a pinch, I can easily just get the bus to the strip mall up the road and pick her up another cage for a decent price, so I am not particularly worried about that. 

As for medication, she is on nothing right now. I bought her less than 24 hours ago and I have been asking about what sorts of medications she will need. She does not seem to me to be in deplorable condition, just ill. Her coat is glossy, she is eating and drinking normally, she is curious, her eyes are bright and don't appear to be glassy, and she has no visible scabbing. I'm not an expert but it looks to me like she just needs some medication for her respiratory problem, and in the future perhaps something for arthritis. She moves more slowly than Doris, and more carefully, but she is also much older and larger.

Just to be clear about her travel cage - it is an actual cage. It is not a plastic container similar to a dog or cat carrier. It is the same as a typical cage, only smaller and with a handle for carrying. I know she should not spend much time in it, nevertheless, and she does not. The tray is left open for her to come and go as she pleases on my bed and I supervise to make sure she doesn't fall. When I sleep, she does go in the travel cage, but she is not interested in much else than finding a nice spot to sleep in right now anyways.

Thank you for the advice.


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## Night

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Do you have a normal rat vet that you go to? For an upper respiratory infection that's gotten worse than just sneezing (IE. the coughing), she should be on a combination of antibiotics - the most commonly prescribed are Baytril and Doxycycline. Remember to have her on the meds for a full three weeks! If you don't see improvement within a week of having her on the medication, you need to switch/add something to her med regimen.

As far as quarantine - I think we've all brought home a new rat immediately when we were newbies, not knowing about proper quarantine. I've actually done it quite a few times before learning about the precautions you should take. But for now, what's done is done. Separating them currently won't do anything. If Millicent has any disease or infection, Doris will have contracted it by now (it can take up to a week for symptoms to show, though, so don't think you're out of the water if she seems fine!). Considering Milly's current condition, she really shouldn't be put through the added stress of meeting a new rat. For now, until she's on medication and feels better, she should be housed by herself.


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

I don't have a vet that I see currently. Last year when I first decided I wanted to house small animals I called all of the veterinary offices in my area and none of them were willing to see to see most small mammals or birds. It's mostly cats and dogs. I will call around again, and if no one is willing to see her I'll have to order the medication online myself and ask one of the breeders in my area to help me. I know of one person who bred rats for many years who should know fair bit about health issues.

I've also moved her away from Doris so she won't be bothered until I have seen to getting her medication. 

As for respiratory problems, it's time for me to head to the store and pick up some throat lozenges for my own coughing problem.


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## Night

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Where are you located exactly? I can try and locate a good rat vet for you 

You can't order Baytril or Doxycycline online, though. They have to be from a vet. And unfortunately, when it comes to upper respiratory infections, there are no home remedies that anyone can suggest. At this point, she needs strong antibiotics, and anything less than that will just be a bandaid over a much larger problem. If upper respiratory infections aren't treated immediately, they can quickly turn into pneumonia and become fatal, or at least have long-term side effects.

To help alleviate her symptoms temporarily though, steam up the bathroom and sit with her for 10-20 minutes. It helps ease the congestion. Along with that, dark chocolate is a bronchodialator (plus, rats love it!).


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

I live in St. John's, Newfoundland, on the East Coast of Canada.

I will definitely try the bathroom trick. I don't have any dark chocolate on me now but when I am feeling a little better I'll take another trip to the store and pick some up.


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## DonnaK

*Re: Meet My Girlies*



Wench said:


> As for respiratory problems, it's time for me to head to the store and pick up some throat lozenges for my own coughing problem.


As you mentioned you are new to looking after rats, Wench, I thought I should mention that strep is one of the few conditions that rats can catch from humans. I don't know if that's what you have, but I thought you ought to know, just in case.


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

No, it's not strep I have. It's a flu bug my brother had last week. Thank you for letting me know though.

I've run into more problems with Millicent. She seemed fine today, but she now appears to be having what look to me like seizures - caused either by pain or something else. My brother called me into the room today while I was in the kitchen boiling water for tea, saying that she was "flipping out". What she was doing was holding herself up against the bars of the cage and jerking violently. I approached the cage and saw that she was also feebly chewing on the bars. It looks like her health is a lot worse than I thought.

I put my hand next to the cage so that she could not reach me if she decided to bite, but that she could smell me. She settled down, but before she smelled my fingers it was almost as if she couldn't see me.


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## Poppyseed

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

AWWW poor ratty D: I hope you can find a vet for her.


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## DonnaK

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

I don't know if rats have them, but it almost sounds like a panic attack. Does she seem to calm down when you handle her outside of the cage?


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

She is usually very calm inside of her cage or out. Doris may have set her off, I brought the cages into the same room while I was doing some cleaning.

I admit I have been afraid to pick her up for fear of being bitten, but being on this forum and hearing about rat health conditions does help to calm me down and have some perspective instead of just thinking "RAT IS NUUUTSSSS."

She's going to need her own full-sized cage and a trip to the vet for some medication. I can pick her up a second hand cage of a decent side on the cheap but I can't go all out right now as my own health has needed serious tending to these past few days.

I've been calling around making enquiries to vets but by reasonable estimate it will be two weeks before she sees a vet, and I'm predicting serious bullshit (excuse the language, just upset over sick me and sick rat and unwilling vets) from someone who knows nothing about rats, who will tell me there is nothing wrong, my rat is old, and then charge me fifty dollars.


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## Night

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Definitely not a panic attack (rats don't have those, btw) - that sounds like a seizure. Poor girl  That's horrible that you can't find a vet, or even one willing to work with you on only very basic knowledge. Unfortunately I didn't realize you were all the way up in Canada - I can get vet recommendations for most anywhere in the US. But, with a bit of searching, I did come across a recommended rabbit vet. Most rabbit specialists also specialize in other small animals, so it's worth a try. The website said that it's just outside of St. John's, so hopefully it's close to you. Here's the information:

*Dr. Hendrik DeZeeuw* 
Sunrise Animal Hospital
1 Sunrise Ave
Mount Pearl, NFLD 
*Phone:* (709) 368-7981 (also for emergency)

By the sounds of it, she's getting worse and worse. If you can't find a vet who will see her for a wellness exam or prescribe medication, you might have to start calling around and asking if they'll at least euthanize her. Although it's not a pleasant thing to think about, she seems to be deteriorating very quickly.

I really hope that you'll be able to find a rat-savvy vet soon, since I know this situation is getting very frustrating for you (I'm sure it doesn't help that you're sick yourself too!). Even if Millicent is too far gone for treatment by the time you do locate a good vet, at least in the future you'll have a place to go with Doris or any future ratties.


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Thank you very very much for the recommendation. I have always been under the impression that Sunrise were a strictly cat and dog clinic, I can get to them very easily on the route 21.

Milly seems okay today but I am not. I guess when I thought it would be kind to take her in, I didn't think of how kind it would be to me. I'm kind of having an emotional weekend and just looking at her and knowing she is going to die very soon makes me just burst into tears.

Why do people do it? Is it so hard to treat other creatures with respect and with love? Just looking at her makes me feel as if my heart is breaking in half, and I have only known her three days maximum. Someone must have owned her for a long time, and looked at her every day, and abused her every day by ignoring her tiny, simple needs. I mean what does she ask for? That you make sure she has a nice little corner to sleep in? Food? Water? I'm sure she would get it if she could. I'm sure she would go get her medication if she could, or tell you she is sick and needs care, or tell you she needs a romp outside her cage, just long enough that she doesn't get premature arthritis because someone couldn't handle an hour a day.

I'm sorry I'm kind of just letting this come out, I haven't even known her that long and I'm getting so worked up, but it is honestly as if I am feeling her pain. I've had a really bad virus/bug/whatever these past few days and this morning it was the worst when I woke up, my ears ached from internal infections (that I'm pretty prone to), it hurt so badly to swallow that I started crying. And I thought...because someone would not care for her, Millicent wakes up to this every time she has a nap, every time she takes a rest. She probably feels it in her sleep. And I wouldn't wish it on anyone. And there she is, the least deserving creature in the world, and she can probably barely breathe.


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## Night

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

I admire your empathy so much. I've rescued a few rats myself, and my best friend runs a rat rescue, so I have seen so many neglect cases. It pains me knowing that some of my rats have had horrible, horrible pasts, but it also makes me realize how happy and content they are now; now that they have a big cage, toys, good food, and always get vet care as soon as they need it. As unfortunate as it is, many people just don't relate to or care that much about animals. They see them as lesser beings and seemingly don't make the connection that they, too, have feelings and get sick sometimes. 

Try not to think about her past, as hard as it may be. Just keep in mind that you're doing everything you can for her right now, and even if she doesn't make it, at least she lived her last days knowing love.


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

It's just really hard to see her hurting and knowing that it could so easily have been prevented. I'm glad there's someone who understands.

Oh my. I'm feeling a little better and Milly seems to be okay right now. Her paw was worse than I realised. The nail came right off and it started bleeding freshly again today, but I think the nail had to come out anyways or it would have just kept on hurting her. It's all stopped bleeding now and she's not picking at it or anything, she seems to know it needs to heal. 

I just need to get her to the vets and get her medication as soon as possible.


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## Stephanie

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

my jackson just ripped a toenail the other night he won't let me touch it at all it is all bruised and everything i tried to clean it up but he refused and he keeps reopening it. so glad he is going to the vet on tuesday!


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## KayRatz

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

I know exactly how you feel, Wench. This reminds me of the time I found a kitten on the roadside. We picked him up and tried to keep him alive, even took him to a vet, but a few days later he died... he was too far gone. I cried really hard. So yeah, I know how you feel. It's not at all strange that you feel this way even though you've only known her for a few days, you know? Best wishes for both of you <3


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*



Stephanie said:


> my jackson just ripped a toenail the other night he won't let me touch it at all it is all bruised and everything i tried to clean it up but he refused and he keeps reopening it. so glad he is going to the vet on tuesday!


Milly seems to be handling her paw very well. The nail has broken off fully now and the bleeding has completely stopped, and she doesn't seem to be picking at it or hurting because of it, but I think it will need a few more days to heal fully. I hope Jackson is okay!



KayRatz said:


> I know exactly how you feel, Wench. This reminds me of the time I found a kitten on the roadside. We picked him up and tried to keep him alive, even took him to a vet, but a few days later he died... he was too far gone. I cried really hard. So yeah, I know how you feel. It's not at all strange that you feel this way even though you've only known her for a few days, you know? Best wishes for both of you <3


I have a history of this with animals, I just can't seem to help my self sometimes. I find myself taking home birds with broken wings, shrews, mice, even a weasel once. It very rarely ends happily, and I'm starting to learn sometimes nature just has to take its course, but with animals like Milly where it is preventable and the fault of a human being...It just really gets to me, I imagine it would be the same with a kitten.

Anyways, Milly is having a good day today. I have not heard her coughing at all and she sneezed only when Doris woke up and came out to bug her. She spent three or four hours wandering my room today and seemed very well compared to her previous condition. She has gained a lot of confidence and the odd behaviours she had previously which made me nervous of her have stopped entirely. There were some impromptu introductions today when Doris woke up unexpectedly and came over to us. 

Milly has a completely adorable habit which made me "Awwwwwwww" out loud. When she is scared or upset by someone, she uses the "if I can't see you, you can't see me" method, which is absolutely the cutest thing I have ever seen in my life. She will slowly crawl into my lap and up onto my thigh, and ease her head in between my arm and my side, as if to hide.

I also think she may be younger than I thought. Now that she is less nervous and I have had more time to see her in action she looks like she might be just over a year old, rather than past the year and a half mark as I thought previously.

I took some pictures of her in action with my webcam.


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## Night

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

From the pictures, I'd gather that she's around 8-12 months old. She definitely doesn't look too much like an oldie


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Awesome.  I'm glad to hear that she's younger than I thought. I would assume the younger, the better the chances of recovery with medication and care.


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## Stephanie

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

thanks for the thouights for jackson LoL he will be ok i can't really pick him up right now cause he flips out every time i try to and that rips his toe more but just two more days and he is going to the vet for the check up i hope everything goes well for milly too *keeps my fingers crossed for all ratties in a vets office*


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

*Updates*

I called Sunrise Animal Hospital (the vet that Night was kind enough to find for Milly and I) just a few minutes ago and asked if the vet they had that treated rabbits would also treat smaller rodents like rats. She said that he would!  

He doesn't have any openings until Friday, but that's not of much consequence anyway because I won't have cash until then or later. Just knowing that I have a doctor that will see Milly, and other rats in the future is a huge weight off my shoulders. 

I also intended to get Millicent a bigger cage some time this week while waiting for her to heal up and get ready to be properly introduced to Doris. I called the place that usually has cages and the woman who answered didn't even check, just said they didn't have anything. I'll go down today or tomorrow (depending on how sick I still am. I'm still in harsh shape now) and look anyway, they're a big store and chances are the woman didn't care enough to go look. :roll: 

So far Milly hasn't had any more seizures, and she hasn't been coughing or sneezing a lot. Her breathing is still laboured and I can still hear scratching in her throat. Other than that, she's doing great.


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## Night

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Oh wow, that's awesome! I'm so relieved, both for you and Millicent. Plus, I'm really happy that I was able to help somehow  She seems to be doing better these last couple of days, so just keep up with the steam treatments in the bathroom and dark chocolate, and she should be okay until Friday. 

Also, I hope you feel better soon also!


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## Nazarath

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

I love your pics truely a beautiful rat  hope she is all better and healthy soon, you must let us know how the vet goes and how you are doing asap.


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Thank you Naz, I think she's lovely too.

Time for more updates on Milly and me. I am 110% better than I was last week, though I am still healing. I'm much more able to cater to Milly and Doris' needs once more, and I am glad to be back in action.

I took Doris out for a walk with me again today as it was quite warm. We were out for an hour or two and I finally took her home because the excitement was exhausting her.

As for Milly, I've been keeping up with her steam treatments every day and I have taken to using a couple old t-shirts at a time to line her cage. Unlike Doris, she really likes to have a place to dig in under, so the t-shirts have been useful in keeping her happy and confident in her ability to hide. Looking back on the way she was kept completely in the open at the pet store with no place to hide, I'm thinking it must have been torture for her. 

I've run into some problems with Doris and Milly. I don't know if it is because she is sick, or simply because she is not as confident or as strong as Doris, but Milly is absolutely terrified of her. I can't stand to leave them in their cages all day and my bedroom is the only rat-proofed room in the house, so their time out of their cages clashes and they end up together. At first I thought this was okay because they would slowly get to know and understand each other under my supervision, but very little progress has been made. Doris goes about her day in my room as she always has, but Millicent prefers to stay in the highest and warmest spots, which is basically behind my computer monitor. She usually stays there or curls up on my shoulder. I try to keep Doris off the desk and away from her so Millicent gets as little stress as possible.

The thing is, whenever Doris does get around her, she is a huge bully. I know there must be a hierarchy between them, but it's not like Millicent is putting up a fight. If Doris can get anywhere near her she will lean her paws heavily on her face, bite her, scratch her, and just plain act like a bully. I have to pull her away and put her on the other side of the room to make her stop. Yesterday Doris got onto my desk and all Millicent had to do was see her and she had five little fear poops right there, and she peed herself. She also cries in addition to squeaking. Once I've taken Doris away she will crawl up onto my shoulder and cry loudly in my ear for about a half an hour. Sometimes she can be distracted with treats, but usually she will keep up crying for a long, long time. I didn't even realise rats could cry, but if this isn't crying I don't know what it is.

I don't think that Doris and Millicent are going to get along. I won't give up until after Millicent has been treated and is in better health, but until she starts at least defending herself when Doris bites her, they are not going to make suitable cage-mates.


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

More updates on the girls. 

I've come to accept that Doris and Milly will take a long time to get along well enough to share a cage, if ever.

I could not afford to buy a brand new cage, but I went out today and got one second hand that is a little smaller than the cage Doris currently resides in. It was fairly cheap and is a nice cage, but not really appropriate housing for my girl. I will soon have to buy a full sized cage for them, but I don't see it happening for another while, as I am saving up for many things. When I get my job later in the season I think things will be much easier all around and I will have the money to put aside. I did have a look around a pet store today (the same place I bought Milly - not a great place, but I need the cage), and I saw a cage for about $200.00 that I would love for my girls to have. all in due time I guess, I just don't have the cash to spare right now.

So I disinfected the new cage and it's now rinsing in hot water. Doris is out of her cage and wandering around and Milly is in Doris' cage until her new one is fully cleaned and rinsed. 

I've also taken Doris off of wood shavings, as I had already done with Millicent. I have both of their cages lined with old t-shirts, and I can honestly say it has already been a huge stress reliever. I spot cleaned Doris' once today and was pleased at how easy it was to do. No more shavings kicked all over the floor when Doris demands to be let out of her cage first thing in the morning.

That's all on the girlies today, I'll probably post some more pictures tomorrow.


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

A little progress today.

I haven't given up on Doris and Milly becoming cage-mates in the future. I've started leaving their cages close together overnight so that they can smell each other and keep in contact from a distance.

For whatever reason, Milly decided today she wasn't terrified of Doris any more and wanted to groom her. Doris doesn't seem to understand grooming. I have a feeling she was badly socialised throughout her short little life and as of yet does not understand that Milly is just being affectionate. I took the opportunity for Doris to get the picture and held onto her while Milly groomed her, so Doris would not attack her. She was not pleased but she relaxed after a little while and I then separated them once again.

If I could just get the money to get Milly to the vet sooner I know she would gain the confidence she should have with better health, and things would be so much faster and stress-free. Unfortunately I just don't have it right now. Hopefully I should have it soon.

Nevertheless, all is not lost and I'm looking at the bright side for my two girls.


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## Night

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Quick question... you mentioned Sunrise not having any openings until Friday, so how did the appointment go?


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

I haven't been yet, I haven't had the money and I'm not sure how I would set up an appointment without having the money immediately on hand. I feel stupid but I don't want to go in without enough money and then have the vet tell me to get lost.

Would there be charges for a single appointment? Do vets usually let there clients pay in increments or...? 

Please don't think I'm lying about taking Millicent to the vet, I am very serious when I say that I am taking her, I'm just embarrassed because I don't have a lot of money right now and I'm not sure how it works.


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## Night

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Don't worry, I know you're a good (read: fantastic) rat owner 

Prices and being able to pay in installments all depends on the individual vet. Most of the time vets won't charge you another office visit fee if you bring in a second (or third, or fourth) rat for an exam, since they're small and usually don't take much time at all to examine. In the past, I've brought in 8-10 rats for a check up, and only got charged $51 (that's the 'extended' exam fee). But, again, it all depends on the vet.

Options for paying is a little more rocky. Vets like to know who they're dealing with, and if you're a good client. Honestly, most vet clinics and veterinarians will immediately tell you "no" if you ask if you can pay in installments and it's only your first visit. Over time, you work up a relationship with your vet, and once they see that you're a dependable person who always pays, that's when they usually start getting more lenient. 

But, don't ask the vet techs or receptionists. They will tell you "no" to about everything you ask. Prices, how you pay, how many you can bring in, and more, all depends on the vet.

You should call the vet clinic and ask how much they charge for an office visit, and a round of antibiotics (Baytril). They should give you a pretty accurate price quote, and that way you know exactly what you're looking at saving/paying.


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## Poppyseed

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

One thing my vet had done is take my credit card number and take out payments on set days. They are willing to take this out over an extended period at set increments as well. If they have the card, they know they are getting the money. Maybe you should bring this idea up?

Of course, I've been there a few times and have gone to pay when their computers are down having to come back later to pay so they know I wont' just run away and will pay. That's one thing. But yeah if they had your card number maybe they could take payments like once/week of a certain amount until the bill is paid? Good luck saving up the monies.


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Okee doke, thanks for the help guys.

Night, I called Sunrise again today and they're closed until Monday. I'll give them a call on Monday and ask for an estimate and antibiotics. As soon as I have the estimate I can start putting the money aside. 

That sounds like good advice, Poppy, but I don't use credit cards, I use debit and I have a youth account, which is limited. 

As long as I can get an estimate I should be able to pay in full upfront.

Thanks again Night, I'd be lost without your advice.


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## Poppyseed

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Does your debit card have a visa or mastercard logo on it? I mean is it a check card? Places use those just as they use credit cards. That's what I used, it's really a check card (a.k.a. debit card). But sounds like you have a plan. Good luck!


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Nope, it's just a plain debit card for TD Canada Trust Bank. It allows me to take money from an ATM and use Debit in stores and that sort of thing, but not anything beyond that.


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## Poppyseed

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Sorry! I had to ask, I have so many customers come up to me and ask 'do you take debit?' and I have to ask if it has a credit card logo on it *eyeroll* They don't know the proper terminology! We do not take debit at our store, but we do take credit. None of the people who word it like that have a plain debit card, they have a credit card D: Not every business can afford the little self swipers you see everywhere now, especially a company as small as us.

Alright, end rant. Sorry about that and I'm glad you used the terminology correctly! Seriously too many little things about retail land annoy me.


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Hahaha, I will soon be entering the world of retail to pay for trips outside the country and to feed my rat addiction. 

Some pictures of Doris for fun:

I'm on da phone! Geddit? On da phone? 









Fish food? Don't be foolish, that says rat food. Here, I'll show you.









I meant to take more but she's always darting all over the place and I can rarely get her to sit still.


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## Inesita

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Hah, that's cute! A real cutie.


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## fallinstar

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

aww shes so cute


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## Night

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Aww, Doris is SUCH a doll!  Also, no need to thank me - I'm just happy to help out when I can.


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies (Update with pictures page 4)*

 I just appreciate all the tips and advice, and Doris says thank you guys for the compliments. 

I called the vet today and got some estimates. It'll cost me $63.25 altogether for the visit (This is Canadian dollars). I'm not sure if it's what she needs, but I needed at least an estimate so I asked about Baytril and she told me it was $11.45 plus tax for 2mils.

I've noticed some scratching between both of the girls so I got an estimate for 2mils of Ivermectin, which came to $12.00 plus tax.

Altogether it's going to cost me about $91.25 for the visit and the medication. It may cost more or less depending on how things go. If they don't have mites the cost of the Ivermectin will be knocked off, but I'm not sure if I'll be charged extra for having the Doris looked at as well, though I'm hopeful from what people here have said. 

It's going to take me a little while to get the money together. As of now, I have..well, pretty much nothing. As of Friday I'll have $70.00 but $35.00 of that has to go towards my phone bill.

Looks like I won't be eating for a while!


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## Night

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Not too bad! All of that is in the normal range of a rattie vet visit, if not even a bit low. Just keep saving, and hopefully you'll be able to get in to the vet soon


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Just a sliiiight update.

Came across some unexpected work, have been spared the need to pay for a long cab ride, and am getting extra money as well.

Vet visit should happen sooner than previously imagined.


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## Poppyseed

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

wooo monies!

Yeah I'm suppose to be part time and a full time position opened up and I expressed interest in it. No answer on that yet but it seems I'm schuduled for 40 hours a week this week and next XD Stressful and hectic for me yeah, I have some problems holding a 40 hour a week job as it doesn't alot me the free time I NEED for creation of things (arts and crafts, I need to create for some unknown reason) But I'm trying to hang on cause I need the monies and the benefits. Hopefully if they are scheduling me the hours, I'm the one they want full time and it's not just cause they fired a guy >_>


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## Wench

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

Sweet, hope they want you for you and not just a replacement.

New update! Lots of pictures of the girls. My girlfriend got back from England just recently and let me use her camera, which of course has much better quality than my web cam does.

There are no pictures of them together because they get near each other and Doris immediately attacks Milly pretty violently. There's lots of action shots of them around the house.

Doris wanting to be let out









Milly being super cute






















































(still Milly, you can see her white leg)









Chillin' on the sill


















Doris before she made an unexpected leap and my girlfriend and I ran to grab her









Milly on my girlfriend's shoulder









Doris with me









Doris' wee nosey


















Doris and my girlfriend posing hilariously as they so often do









My girlfriend being hungover and Doris taking advantage of her weakened state



























Hot legs!









Doris shows off her trim figure and her lovely coat









Peek!









Hom nom nom! 









Here be rat treats. Y'aaarrr.









Attempting to thwart my pajama leg barrier









Sitting still in my lap for once in her life









Shall I come out then?









And here is what the girls had for dinner today









Mix includes:

Cucumber
Carrot 
Green pepper
Red pepper
Brocolli
Cooked rice
Dry pasta
Whole oats
Sunflower seeds
Small bits of cheese
Crumbled whole wheat bread
18% Protein beef and chicken dog treat pieces

Doris is as healthy as ever, but Milly is still in rough shape, though more confident. I'm calling the vets again on Monday and hooopefully getting an appointment.


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## Stephanie

*Re: Meet My Girlies*

wow i must be the only one that can get six rats a complete check up for 65 dollars and that included a shot for jackson's arthritis! I love my vet he charges half price on anything rat related.


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## Night

Oh wow - great new pictures! And by the way, that rattie dinner looks fabulous  How'd they like it?


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## Wench

Thanks, it was hard to get them to sit still long enough to get decent pictures. 

They loved their dinner, though Milly seems to prefer throwing hers all over the cage as opposed to actually eating it.


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## Poppyseed

You can come over anytime and fix me and my rats ratty dinner ^_~

They don't want a replacement it's between me and this other guy that's been there longer aparently. We interview late next week D:


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## Wench

Sweet, well I hope things work out well for you. 

Update!

Got other bills I was obligated to pay taken care of, calling the vet tomorrow to make an appointment for next week.  Yaaaay.


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## Wench

First update in a million years!

I got a job after all and I haven't had the chance to post, or really be on the Internet at all.

I took Milly to the vet a long time ago and she's been better since her visit. Her meds are done and there aren't any traces of her respiratory problem, only she coughs a bit when she's stressed out.

Doris has gotten to be a bit of a fatty. I'm chalking it up to her old age. Her diet hasn't changed, but she has had less time out of the cage now since I've had to work. Her fur has changed colour drastically almost overnight. She's gone from being almost fully black to having a very dark upper half and the bottom half being a light, golden brown. 

I got two more rats recently, they were both rescues and came with a guinea pig cage. Doris and Millicent are still in their smaller cages. Investing in a large cage for them to share never happened, because they have never made friends. Doris has had a long time to try and adjust to Milly and she hasn't. She is gentler now but still aggressive. She will never adjust to other rats. I'm buying the chinchilla cage I wanted for Doris and Milly in the first place two weeks from now, and I will hopefully house Milly and the two new girlies, Esmerelda and Beatrix in that one, and Doris will have to stay on her own in the second largest cage. I have five different sized cages now, and I'll be attaching the two hamster cages to the guinea pig cage so that Doris has a big enclosure as well. 

Having two new rats has been an eye opener, even in the short period with which I have had the new girls. I've been able to see the hierarchy between Beatrix and Esmerelda, Beatrix is in charge. They interact the same way Milly and Doris would if Doris' aggression level was normal. The difference is Beatrix knows when to stop, and Doris does not. 

Esmerelda (or Ezzy) is the same as Milly, she's a black and white hooded. Beatrix is a cream and white hooded. They are both what looks like a healthy weight, but the only food in their cage is a large bowl of green pellets that look like alfalfa. They've been eating it, so I assume it has something else they can properly digest. 

The previous owner told us they were badly treated in the past, but other than being very frightened of their new environment for the first while and being biters, they do not seem unhealthy. They both have clean coats, the cleanest tails I have ever seen, they are not grossly overweight, not underweight, have no socialisation difficulties, and have shown no sign of aggression. 

The biting will stop once they have confidence, the same way it did with Milly and Doris. They need more time out of the cage, that's all. 

Pictures soon, of course.


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## kkdepp

Doris very cute....her coat looks shiny...


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