# URI help?



## orhasta925 (Apr 18, 2012)

Hello! I recently got two new baby rats, they are around 7 weeks old and they have been sneezing a ton ever since I brought them home about a week ago. They are from a pet store, and they were housed in a tank. Right now they are in a wire cage, I use carefresh bedding and I am waiting for them to get bigger before I put them in my ferret nation cage.

I am getting more worried and I plan on taking them to the vet on tuesday and I just have a couple of questions. Is this treatable? Will they be ok with medication?

Today one of them had the red pigment around her nose. I wiped it off, but it seems they're sneezing is getting worse. I can't tell if it's stress from moving, dusty environment at the pet store, or if they have a URI. But I'm getting worried for them :/

Any information and tips would be helpful. Thanks


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## erikablanchettexo (Nov 25, 2014)

Take them to the vet as soon as possible. Most pet stores don't house them properly and the build up of ammonia causes respiratory issues. 

Medication such as baytril, doxy or chloro Palm can help keep the sneezing down. 

However, every rat is born with mycoplasma and they have "flare ups" from time to time (sometimes none at all). So it's quite common. 

As far as the red coming from your rats nose, that's called porphoryn. It produces naturally but an access amount can mean stress or illness. 

Just keep an eye on it and bring them to the vet as soon as possible. Ask for baytril or doxycycline or a combination of both for 14 days minimum. 

I hope this helped!


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## Finnebon (Jul 15, 2013)

I would ask for amoxicillin first before any of the others. And I would definitely not use baytril if they're babies. There's some evidence that says baytril causes growth issues in young rats. Amox is a very good go-to antibiotic to try first and usually fixes most issues. If they don't start showing improvement in 3 days, then maybe try doxy.

It's possible that it could be just the new home sneezes and stress, but it wouldn't hurt to put them through a round of amox each just to be safe! Also, carefresh can actually be quite dusty. You might want to try a different bedding and see if that helps.

This is a good reference: http://www.ratfanclub.org/resp.html scroll down to amoxicillin to read more. Be sure to give extra protein and/or yogurt a few hours after giving the meds to help combat loose poops and diarrhea. Antibiotics tend to give squishy poops which can cause more problems.


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## orhasta925 (Apr 18, 2012)

Hey so I just called the vet and the only appointment they have is for the 26th so I went ahead and scheduled that. They wouldn't sell amoxicillin before seeing them so I guess we will wait and see and work on doing steam showers and keeping them off dusty bedding. When they are big enough for the ferret nation they will be on fleece. I could also get chicken wire now and wrap it all up so they can't get through the bars and put them in now because there is a lot more room and maybe things wouldn't be as congested.

I also heard that honey was good for them?


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## Rattenstein (Nov 14, 2014)

Raw honey is, preferably unfiltered. Just a little dab each, it can help in some cases. Especially since your appointment isn't until the 26th, I'd try some home remedies until then, just to see if it helps in the meantime.


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## orhasta925 (Apr 18, 2012)

Alright! I'll be giving them some honey later. I've continued the steam showers. Any other tips? Should I give them some extra protein? I've been meaning to start making my own food for them, so any links to a good source would be good. The pet store I got them at is locally owned and I've gotten rats there before without any trouble, and I started with a basic rat mix that they make, but any links to a good diet I could make would be really appreciated. Thanks! 

And any other tips, it's been a few years since I've had rats


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## Finnebon (Jul 15, 2013)

Something a lot of people here do (myself included) is get the amoxicillin capsules made for fish tanks. They are capsules with 250mg of amoxicillin. You mix a flavoring (I use chocolate syrup and a little water so it's a little thick but not too watery).

Get a mortar and pestle or anything you can use the same way really, and open the capsule and grind it up as fine as possible. Add 5mL of the liquid/flavoring and mix very well. Keep in the refrigerator and throw out after 10 days. 14 days would be safer but you would need to mix up a new batch. 10 days is pretty standard for new symptoms though I think.

You can buy fish amoxicillin capsules online or at fish stores. You will also need to buy a kitchen scale to get your rat's weights in grams so you know how to properly dose them. both of these items to buy should be cheaper than a vet visit, and are really good to keep on hand in your ratty first-aid kit! You will also need to buy a 1 mL sized needless syringe to measure out the meds.

Use this medication guide here: 

http://www.ratclub.org/dose_general.htm

The concentration is 50 mg/mL, the dosage 10mg/lb, and the weight is your rat's weight. It will tell you how much to give them. For example, one of my boys gets 0.2mL for his weight, and one of my girls gets 0.14mL for her weight. Keep it refrigerated, and shake it up really well before each time. Give it to them twice a day every 12 hours.

Hopefully your ratties will be all better by the time the vet appointment comes around and you can cancel it. You do not want to put off treating a possible URI at all because they can advance very very quickly! Best wishes to your new babies! I hope this was helpful!


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## Millie & Daisy (Mar 7, 2015)

Along with most others, I suggest you go to the vet most definitely. Aside from that, I have a similar story to share. Yes, URIs are treatable, but are painstaking to treat. Sometimes rats will improve after treatment, and sometimes they will not, and if that's the case it's not your fault. However, it is possible for them to recover if given extreme TLC. As far as what caused it, I would say that the cause is probably a combination of all three things that you mentioned.

When I got my girls, they also had URIs and were housed in similar conditions at the store. A few days later I took them on a 100+ mile car trip from my college back home for Spring Break. My parents were in the process of moving, so they came into my life during a stressful haul. They were also very sick when I got them. First off, I would stop using carefresh. For now, remove it from the cage, clean the cage, and leave the bottom bare or covered in fleece that is washed daily. If no fleece, then wipe up the bottom of the cage once or twice a day. Carefresh agitates my girls lungs, which are prone to infection because Daisy had pneumonia when I got her. I used to use it as bedding, then switched to fleece and only had carefresh in their litterbox. My vet told me it would actually be better to eliminate using carefresh and other litters all together, even in the box. Once I stopped using carefresh and switched to fleece, they improved (with antibiotics, of course). Now I only really use fleece for their hammocks and hideouts and leave the bottom bare for easy cleaning. If you have a cage with a wire bottom, however, do not do this. Walking on uncovered wire can cause bumblefoot in rats.

Carefresh can be dusty, despite what the package says. It's not a horrible product and is better than wood shavings, but it still absorbs a lot of their waste and collects dust and bacterias that can agitate the lungs of sensitive rats. It's good for some, but if your girls have difficulty breathing, I would remove it from the cage altogether. Also, they are probably having trouble breathing if they are sneezing a lot. I'm an asthmatic myself, so I have lots of asthma medications with me all of the time. I constructed a very ratchet (have no idea what other word to use here, lol) rat nebulizer out of a tupperware tub and a human nebulizer. I went ahead and followed the dosing instructions of ratfanclub in terms of how much medicine to put in the machine and mixed it with a carefully measured saline solution. When things were the worst, I stuck them in there and made them breathe in the solution for ten minutes at a time. They hated it, of course, but I believe they are still alive now because of it. It's not too hard to make, especially if you have a machine in your house. 

*IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE *(which is the case for a lot of people) you CAN buy a similar machine and similar medication over the counter called Asthmanefrin. I have never used Asthmanefrin, only albuterol, so I cannot say I know exactly how your rats will react (and I am NOT a vet, just someone who has had experience nursing a couple of them back to health). But, I believe you can buy the solution and the nebulizer/inhalers OTC at Walmart for around $20-$30 depending on where you live. If you have no medication to nebulize at all, even just making a saline solution and nebulizing it can soothe their lungs until you can get to a vet. Also, if you have just a plain inhaler and a toilet paper tube, you can stick your rat's head in it and do a puff of the asthma inhaler through the other end. This is, of course, going to be a somewhat large dose (one puff can make me have tremors, but it's better than the pain of an asthma attack), but if you have absolutely no options and it's an emergency situation (rat is laboring to breathe, darting around because they cannot breathe, etc) this can help. 

Non medication options are also out there. A lot of people have said raw honey is good, which I agree with. It's also good for preventing infection in cuts and such, but that's a topic for another post : ) I put a small dab of it on the end of a straw, smear it around to make a thin film on the end and let my rats lick it up. Not too much, as that can choke them (rats have no gag reflex but still love to eat until eternity is over). Also, cool mist humidifiers and vaporizers are great when placed a few feet away from the cage and have a path of steam that runs directly into the cage. I had a very small, personal humidifier for them that I actually placed a few inches away from the cage. It was very cheap, granted, I had it a while before I got them; but it was the perfect size for placing close to the cage and was about $20 at Walgreens. Run it constantly until you get to the doctor, unless you see it is agitating them. If you don't have these options, you can always take them into the bathroom and run the shower so that they are able to inhale the steam. This is comforting to many rats, unless there is fluid in the lungs - in which case it can actually cause distress. 

Do they have fluid in the lungs (pneumonia)? A way you can determine this without a stethoscope is to hold your ratty close to your ear and see if you hear any strange sounds when they breathe, like crackling. If you hear crackling, I would stay away from using warm steam and get your rat to the vet ASAP. 

As many have probably said, dark chocolate is a bronchodilator and will help open up your rat's lungs. When mine were at their worst, I gave them each about two small squares a day. It would lessen their sneezing for a short time, which I think was of comfort to them. Make sure that they are continuing to eat and drink normally. If they refuse food or water, you may want to syringe feed them. Pedialyte also wouldn't hurt in this situation.

I have several helpful resources for you details about how to do some of the things I've mentioned, and a couple that walk you through what to do if it turns into a respiratory emergency. There is also some information about myco included. 

http://2ndchance.info/ratlover.htm
http://ratfanclub.org/nebuliz.html <<< Important info on building a nebulizer
http://www.ratfanclub.org/firstaid.html << More info, including using inhalers
http://www.tinytoesratrescue.org/#!respiratory-distress/c1l1j <Respiratory Distress Info
http://www.tinytoesratrescue.org/#!medications/com <Med info
http://www.tinytoesratrescue.org/#!shock--cpr/c34f <CPR
http://ratguide.com/health/basics/first_aid_supplies.php
http://karasratworld.tumblr.com/post/42286564722/upper-respiratory-infections-uris-are-tricky
http://www.rmca.org/Articles/respir.htm
http://www.nfrs.org/respdisease.html


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## orhasta925 (Apr 18, 2012)

Thank you all so much for the tips! I will get on this asap. I'll fix up the cage now and work on getting the medications and home remedies all squared away.

But I would like to add that besides the sneezing, they are extremely perky, happy, energetic, eating and drinking, and everyone else seems normal so I don't know if some of these remedies are more for if they are really troubling to breathe. 

I guess maybe to consolidate, I'd like to know what I should try first.

I'm going to take the carefresh out now and line with fleece,
give them some honey now because I have some
and get dark chocolate as soon as possible
But there was a lot info for which home medications to try and I'd like some advice for what my first choice should be.

Thanks again!


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## orhasta925 (Apr 18, 2012)

I just listened and I do not hear anything abnormal besides sneezing!


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## Millie & Daisy (Mar 7, 2015)

If your girls are struggling to breathe, definitely try to nebulize. It is very intense, though, so if they're just sneezy, you can wait. But I would definitely try chocolate and a vaporizer/humidifier near the cage as a first home remedy. Someone on Instagram told me that a saline mist and saline eye drops are available to soothe. She said if you put a little bit of saline eyedrop on a cotton ball or q-tip and go around their eyes (not in them) it can soothe them a little bit. Perhaps the same for the nose, as I notice saline sprays help me a lot for allergies and infections as a human. You can look into that and see if there's a saline spray that you can give them at a distance (it's probably too big to fit in their nose, lol!) and have them breathe in the mist. It's pretty cheap and I would assume pretty safe. I got some saline spray for my Mom at the pharmacy for $5 or less. If your girls aren't laboring to breathe, that's the way I would go. But if it worsens and you're ever worried that they will not make it to the vet, nebulize if you can. That's just worse case scenario. 

By the way, I'm going to look up some information on essential oils. I use them sometimes for my family when we get sick by putting a little bit of an oil (like maybe a drop or two) in a humidifier and it helps clear out the crud. I don't know if it would work or be safe for rats, but I'm planning to gather some information on it. If I find it useful, I will let you know!


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## Millie & Daisy (Mar 7, 2015)

Oh, and as far as meds go - Baytril is generally the #1 thing that my vet tries for infections, but this time we've switched to amoxicillin to see how they do because it's not as bad as last time. Someone told me that amoxicillin doesn't cure URIs, but my vet indicated there is a new consensus that is emerging about it so I agreed to let her try it on the girls sort of off-label. Seems to be working. Especially you see them worsening, I would definitely try getting my hands on some bird/fish antibiotics and dose accordingly. Amoxicillin is the only one I officially know of that's available for animals commercially and without a prescription, but if you can find some doxycycline that would be even better, and I think Dr. Fosters and Smith has it.


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## orhasta925 (Apr 18, 2012)

Alright. I'm going to continue with home remedies and see how they do! They already seem better from just changing out the bedding to fleece. 

In the mean time, here's pictures of Eyore and Peanut. They look exactly alike besides eyore having a dot on her face and peanut having a dash


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