# I may have done a bad thing...



## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

Well, I've been toying with the idea of getting two more male rats, since I currently have two boys and four girls. That way it would make the number even, and I have plenty of space for them. Before I go too far into this story, I want to talk a little bit about a place called "Sin City Rattery", a rattery local to me in Las Vegas. As far as I've been able to see, they're the only rattery in Las Vegas that advertises themselves to the public as a rattery. I added them to my Facebook friends awhile back, but have never actually gotten rats from them before.

I periodically see them update about having new babies, but until recently I wasn't looking to get more rats so I tried to ignore the posts as best as I could. (Hard to do when the posts are accompanied by adorable pictures of baby rats!) I talked with the owner awhile ago, because their facebook page says they breed feeder rats and "high quality pet rats". I asked about his decision to sell feeder rats, and inquired about the difference between a feeder rat and a pet rat. What qualifies one as a pet, and one as a feeder? I do have a bleeding heart when it comes to selling rats as feeders, but I also try to keep an open mind. He seemed very open and honest about the whole thing and said they euthanize their feeder rats humanely, and that they never kill "pet" rats (apparently, rats that have been bred specifically for good health and pretty markings.)

Anyway, the other day I noticed he said they had new "rare" rats for sale, "silver" rats as he called them (though I doubt that's what they really are) with blazed faces. Although I've never adopted a rat purely on looks, I've always found rats with blazes to be especially pretty. I was entertaining the idea of adopting two males from this new bunch, but wanted to think about it for few days first to make sure getting two more rats was a good decision.

Only a few days later, I saw they had reduced the price of said silver rats, because he had "too many" and nobody was adopting them. I made the comment to my boyfriend that I should probably go adopt a couple before he sells them as feeders, but it was more of a joke because I recalled the owner saying they don't sell their pet rats as feeders. Well, I thought, what the heck...might as well go check this place out.

Well....the "rattery" was located in a more run-down area of town, and I got a really skeevy feeling from the place. I try not to judge a book by its cover, but this was the sort of area of town where you feel like someone's gonna jump out and shank you with a broken beer bottle just to steal a dollar from you. The driveway was littered with filth and two wooden fences on either side of the driveway shielded me from the neighbor's dogs, who were barking aggressively and furiously trying to break through their gates to get to me. (One neighbor's dog was a chihuahua, but the other had two rather large dogs, presumably pitbulls.) It was pretty disconcerting, standing outside of the rattery shed getting barked at by a bunch of angry dogs. I knocked on the door but nobody answered for quite awhile.

Eventually a guy opened the door, and immediately the overpowering scent of urine and feces stung my nostrils. He ushered me in, and my heart sank when I saw this so-called "rattery" bred rats in feeder style bins. I thought maybe the pet rats were kept in a separate area, but nope, those were kept the in feeder bins, too. I was really starting to feel uneasy about this place.

However, when he opened up one of the bins and I saw piles of adorable rat babies, just as pretty as described, I thought maybe I should just adopt a couple of the rats, anyway. They were being kept in bins with no mental stimulation whatsoever and no room to climb, and he obviously wasn't cleaning the bins very often based on the stench...what started off as a simple adoption began to feel very much like a rescue mission.

Now here is why I think I did a bad thing. I could tell right away that these rats are too young to be taken from their mother. Their eyes are open and they're eating solid foods, but they're VERY, very small. I asked how old the rats were, and he said "3 weeks old...it's a little young, but old enough for them to survive without mom". Ugh! And he was planning on selling them even a few days prior to this??

Well at that point, I had a decision to make...do I leave the babies there for two more weeks and risk this guy euthanizing them as feeders before I come back to adopt them at the proper age (because at this point I didn't trust him), or do I "rescue" them now, even though they're still quite young?

I wanted to save two of the baby boys. So, I did. I put two little cuties in my carry case, paid the guy and left. 

All night last night, I second guessed myself. Did I do the right thing? Am I just encouraging this guy to keep breeding more rats by buying rats from him? Did I scar these poor babies for life by taking them from their mom too soon?

Fast forward to a few minutes ago...the boys have been crawling around in my lap and eventually curled up in my hoodie pocket to sleep. I decided while they're hanging out I'd check out facebook...and guess what?

Today, Sin City Rattery posted that they now have feeders. Pinkies, fuzzies and weaned. I wonder who the weaned rats could be.

I can't prove it, and maybe he euthanized some of his feeder rats, but he DID say that he was overwhelmed with silver rats and couldn't adopt them out fast enough. Did he euthanize the entire brood of rats I saw only yesterday?

I also saw he posted that he plans on killing some of his breeder rats in three months. He didn't specify feeder breeders, he only said "breeders".

Well....as these little boys sleep soundly in my pocket, and I periodically put my hand in there to stroke their heads and they begin to cuddle up to my fingers and lick them, I can say that I feel a lot better now about taking them, despite how young they are. I would even say they're younger than 3 weeks old, I'd peg them at about 18-19 days honestly...but I'm taking very good care of them and inundating them with attention.

To think, they could have been euthanized today if I hadn't made the choice to go get them yesterday.

So this is my story, I did a bad thing, but I have a hard time feeling guilty about it now that I know what could have been. And really, they are BEAUTIFUL rats, on top of being sweetie pies. I definitely need to post pictures of them soon. I also need to wake them up and give them some milk.


----------



## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

As a side note, since I know someone is going to ask, I do have them quarantined right now. They're in my bedroom, my other rats are upstairs on the opposite side of the house.


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I would post around a warning about this guy.


----------



## TexasRatties (Jun 2, 2013)

I would not feel bad if I were you they always say don't help the breeders but they are still going to sell and breed no matter what. I think you did a good thing by taking those boys and I hope they live long and are healthy. Don't feel guilty you can only do so much unfortunately there are alot of not so great people in the world. Hopefully he means the feeders and is not culling or killing the pet rats. I know snakes have to eat too but ya know..... so don't feel bad and enjoy your boys. Post pics too


----------



## CJMoore (Jul 30, 2013)

Quite honestly I would I have done the same thing. I would have a hard time just taking two. If I was there I would have maybe taken three or four. The problem with taking them however is that they could be sick from being in a place like that. Luckyly you got males so you don't have a chance of a litter. I don't think any animal should be in a place like that even if they were only born to be snake food. Though I don't like the thought of feeders you have to think about the snakes. They need to eat too and that is what they eat.


----------



## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

CJ, I would have loved to take more than two, but I also want to consider the rats I currently have and what I can responsibly care for. Eight is probably my limit for now, gosh it was hard leaving them all behind though. I don't even know where this guy acquired such pretty rats, I feel like he must have gotten them from a reputable breeder, but what reputable breeder would sell their stock to a guy that clearly focuses on selling his rats as feeders?

And nanashi, I think I will. The only unfortunate thing is rats seem like a relatively new "commodity" type pet here in Vegas (considering there are NO "true" breeders here!) and I doubt anybody would really understand the implications of what this guy is doing.


----------



## CJMoore (Jul 30, 2013)

Of course you couldn't take more than you can handle! I am not saying you should get more or anything. Did you see any other rats that he could have bred to get your rats?


----------



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bad people are often good liars >.<

In my area, there are more mice breeders than rat breeders. When I got stuck with a male and female because the breeder failed to check (I did too, but honestly I wasn't going to flip my rat over in the first week and spook them while working on trust). I went on craigslist to warn against her, and on hoobly. Anywhere I see her ad. I wouldn't have been so vicious but she wasn't helpful at all and was a liar -- she guaranteed they were pet-only rats, who were well socialized. Nope and nope. Found her ad for frozen feeders a few weeks later. Saw the bloody snake she kept hidden on my way out the door -- I wouldn't have minded if she could've honestly said she didn't breed to feed a rat she owned. Clearly she does.


----------



## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

CJ, the mom looked like she was black variegated, and I think she had a blaze but it was hard to tell because she stayed toward the back of the bin. Not sure what dad looks like, he must be the silver one. The pups were all black and silver variegated and many of them had blazes. I want to look into what the color actually is though, I call it silver but it could be something else. I'll have to wait until they get a bit older to know for sure. One is silver variegated and has a blaze, with ruby eyes and standard ears. The other is champagne variegated and he doesn't have a blaze, but he has a white spot on his forehead, with black eyes and dumbo ears. 

Nanashi, that's awful. If people can't tell the truth then they must feel what they're doing is wrong, it makes you wonder how they don't feel guilty.


----------



## Capistrono (Apr 12, 2010)

I probably would've done the same thing as you, to be honest, but that aside you really need to do something about this guy. He has a facebook, you need to post a reveiw or something, let people know what is going on.


----------



## Voltage (May 15, 2013)

Oh wow and I was looking for Vegas ratteries recently for future reference too...
I'll be sure to stay far away from there as much as i would want to rescue babies from there I would not want to give him a reason to keep doing this....
It's sickening...

I'm glad you posted this also glad you saved those two boys.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Minky (Apr 4, 2013)

I think it's a good idea to post a warning and at least try to get the word out on forums (as you are doing) that it's an awful rattery. 

You also could try calling the local animal welfare authorities to have them check out the place. 

Don't feel guilty about buying rats from him, as long as you don't go back and buy from him again. I probably would have done the same thing in your shoes.

How socialized are the little babies? I hope you will post photos!


----------



## Nathan4d (Feb 17, 2013)

I would have done the same tbh. But thing is even if you didn't recuse them they would most likely have been ad as feeders from frozen so he would have had money either way x


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Lesti (Jun 25, 2013)

Good job saving them, but watch out for mc with those markings!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## SheWroteLove1 (Jan 18, 2013)

I highly suggest you contact the authorities- even your local humane society. Tell them what you witnessed and ask if they'd go check things out.

Those ratties are lucky to have you- can't wait to see pics!


----------



## lab1 (Jun 26, 2013)

dont take more then you can handle girl...and i think rats are worse then dogs when it comes to mating :|


----------



## Agapi (Jan 24, 2013)

If you are concerned about his practices isn't there an equivalent to the RSPCA in the US like we have here. Report him and then they will inspect and do what needed.


----------



## franjf (Dec 13, 2012)

As people before me have said I think you definitely need to ring up some sort of animal welfare (I don't know what they have over there in the US) and report him. What he is doing is inhumane. Them poor ratties  You definitely did a good thing though rescuing two. You'll give them a great life


----------



## CindrDoLLy (Oct 3, 2012)

Thank you everyone for the kind words. I've been doing some research into animal welfare laws here in Nevada, unfortunately I don't think this guy is "technically" doing anything wrong because he is advertising as a feeder breeder first and a pet breeder second. I didn't realize this because he seems to be pushing rats as pets on Facebook, but when I looked into him a bit more on Craigslist and on google, he primarily breeds rats for snake food. I just wish he was a bit more honest on his facebook...though feeder breeder or not, I hate how feeder rats are treated! Then again, any animals bred for food for another specie is treated rather poorly, if slaughterhouses are any indication. Sigh...does anyone think I could still make a case against this guy? 

Anyway, both the babies are doing extremely well! Their energy levels are up, they're already used to the sound of my voice and will greet me at the cage door, and they both like to lick hands. I've also been able to start hand wrestling them and they popcorn like mad  If anyone wants to see pics of them, I just posted in "Meet My Rats", their names are Timothy (from Secret of N.I.H.M.) and Remy (From Ratatouille).


----------



## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

My local pet shop gets feeder rats in as pinkies or fuzzies, usually they still have their eyes closed. They have nursing rats there to feed them. But a pinky or fuzzy's chance of making 5 weeks old is slim to none... I've only seen it happen once when they seriously over ordered baby feeders and some made it to the small rat cage.

So basically, if their eyes are open and they can drink KMR... or eat soggy cereal you grab what you can and hope your best guess at sexing is right... If you wait, chances are your rat will be long digested and passed before they are ready to go home with you.

But not to worry... Fuzzy Rat was about 3 weeks old when we got her. And she turned out to be wonderful. Yes, we spent most of our waking time caring for her but the bond we created when she was such a small pup lasted a lifetime. 

It has been proven that a rat that doesn't have a mom around will grow up to be nervous and skittish, but you can be the mom... So you really need to put in the hours!

And on a final note, we adopted a three week pup and really stupidly attempted to introduce her to Fuzzy Rat too young and that didn't turn out too well. They eventually did learn to live together but due to the childhood trauma, the new baby left us as soon as she matured and was ready to strike out on her own. Within the next few weeks you are developing your rats personality for it's lifetime... lots of care and attention and you might wind up with a rat like Fuzzy Rat, a couple of bad experiences and you might get a runaway or worse. 

Amelia was adopted from the same snake food bin by someone else who eventually gave her to us. I was told they didn't have time for or interest in her. She doesn't respond to treats, nor does she accept much affection and since Fuzzy Rat died she just takes off and evaporates into the house stopping back occasionally for food. She's a smart rat, but she's afraid of just about everything and has very little interest in hugs or skritches. Fuzzy Rat picked Amelia to be her companion. Amelia took good care of Fuzzy Rat as she grew sicker and weaker, now Amelia's pretty hard to relate to and she can't step up to be the family rat. It only takes a little neglect and a perfectly wonderful rat is screwed up for life.

At three weeks old you have a wonderful opportunity and an awesome responsibility.

Best luck!


----------



## Kris (Apr 6, 2013)

I would post something about this on their Facebook page. get the word out not to go to this guy for rats. and call an animal rights group and report these conditions.From what you described, this guy could be fined and possibly shut down since this is still a form of animal cruelty. congrats on rescuing the two little babies, though. they sound adorable


----------



## Dinoclor (Mar 2, 2013)

Call them anyway. Even if it turns out it's not illegal, it's still worth a shot to call your local humane society.


----------



## Minky (Apr 4, 2013)

I totally agree that you have nothing to lose by calling the animal authorities and reporting the guy for hygene issues. It's better that they come out and write a report on the guy, even if they don't find anything. Plus you'll feel better knowing you did something. 

I have to disagree with Rat Daddy that a little bit of neglect will ruin a rat for life. I adopted 3 rats from a neglect/hoarding case. These rats descended from good breeder stock, but they were being raised as feeders before their owner was busted for animal cruelty. After that, these rats languished in a shelter for many months. When I adopted them, they weren't so keen on being held, but I could tell they had potential. Now (4 months later) they're awesome. They are not "shoulder rats" but they love affection and they let me pick them up and cuddle them. I believe a rat's personality is partly determined by environment, but also by genetics. Some rats just have more potential to be social.


----------

