# Female bullying her cage mate?



## Baru (Oct 2, 2013)

Hey there Forum! New here to the rat community. I did have rats all through out growing up but my last was about 8 years ago. I recently decided to take up the adventure of having rats again because I've been petless for two years in our apartment (after moving out of state) and really missing the company! I went with girls because I've always been more comfy with them. 


I've had these two for about 3 months now. I think they are between 4 and 5 months old? I took a risk with our local Petsmart since this is a really small town and one of our only nearby pet places. I have to say that I was not let down. Very socialized, very friendly pair. I have a tan and white, Reve (Rev-A) and a black and white (both hooded) Rou. I got Rev first and not quite two weeks later, picked up Rou as a cage mate. I've got them in a modified Ferret Nation Double Unit, so they are living in lots of space that I'm slowly filling (the cage was supposed to be a Critter nation but they sent the wrong one. After spending almost another $100 modifying the cage, I've had to cut back on the housing items to fill the space. Rest assured they do have housing on all 4 levels, a hammock, a wheel, and toys.) 


They are both very sweet, very affectionate girls. Of course, busy bodies like no ones business, especially Rou. I call her my little Tomb Raider. Reve is something of a mama's girl. She likes to stick near me and she will stop to cuddle quite regularly. Very much a shoulder rat and also the dominate one of the two. Rou is meek by comparison. Both are incredibly smart, they've taken to litter training in less than a week and they know their ques. 


The trouble arises when it comes to food. Reve is quite a hog. She gets very excitable when she hears the treat noise (just clicking with my tongue.) If she finishes her treat first, she'll go over and try stealing Rou's if she hasn't finished yet. I wasn't so concerned about that since it was easy enough to just give Rou her treat first and keep Reve distracted but lately they've been bickering an awful lot, especially over food. I'm not sure I can even call it bickering, it's Reve chasing Rou around seemingly every time Rou tries to eat. Reve will literally hear her crunching and run up the floors to snatch whatever it is away- and not to eat it! To stash!


Rou has always been a bit smaller and thinner. I haven't noticed a big difference in her weight or behavior, but the "bickering" has become much more frequent lately and it seems like every time I turn around, Reve is chasing Rou all over trying to take something from her. Rou is a big culprit in the stashing game, she loves to tuck away the dried pasta curls in particular, they seem to be her favorite in the food mix. I'm wondering if Rou's stashing has anything to do with it? I have yet to see any blood drawing, bite marks or any other major signs of aggressive fighting and they get along perfectly well any other time- just not when food is involved.


Maybe Im worrying too much, but is that common at all? I've seen a few posts about males bickering this way, but almost no mention of this bully like behavior out of females. Just a phase maybe? Anyway, thanks for the ear!


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## xScrtach_n_Sniffx (Oct 11, 2013)

I have been having the same issue with my two females who have been in the same cage since they were born. I dont know why they do it but its a bit terrifying! I have asked around and it is normal as long as they are not pushing each other on their backs or standing on their hind legs and attacking. That is serious fighting. I've looked up information on Mites too and bedding and even diet habits. None of it really helped (except the mites, but mine do not have them). They bite each other when they are cleaning each other, CONSTANTLY. I dont know what to do either except seperate them, but then I feel bad. If you find any other information, please let me know and I will do the same to you! Lets stop the biting! Woooh!


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Get two water bottles/food bowls and start not giving her a treat until last. If she gets antsy, pin her and give her no treat. If she takes a treat, take it back.

And, rats hit puberty at 3mo until 6mo. This is the wonderful time when you might as well talk to the wall and give up understanding what is happening. In my opinion, it's like the terrible twos mixed with being a teen.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

xScrtach_n_Sniffx said:


> I have been having the same issue with my two females who have been in the same cage since they were born. I dont know why they do it but its a bit terrifying! I have asked around and it is normal as long as they are not pushing each other on their backs or standing on their hind legs and attacking. That is serious fighting. I've looked up information on Mites too and bedding and even diet habits. None of it really helped (except the mites, but mine do not have them). They bite each other when they are cleaning each other, CONSTANTLY. I dont know what to do either except seperate them, but then I feel bad. If you find any other information, please let me know and I will do the same to you! Lets stop the biting! Woooh!


The biting while cleaning is just power grooming. It's normal and how they get to the good spots. Whiney rats will still likely complain at the submission.


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## Baru (Oct 2, 2013)

(Sorry for the long delay in reply! Been a busy work week!)

The problem with having two food bowls is that both girls wont keep the food in the bowl. They take every single piece out of the bowl right after I put it in there and stash it inside their big hammock. Even after I took the hammock out to wash and put a new one in there, they stash it in the same place, different hammock! I'd have to set a feeding time to make them eat on the spot, otherwise they're just going to tuck it away the minute it's available and eat when they please.

It's very odd. So far we just keep separating them when we hear a lot of chasing going on between crunches, so that Rou can eat in peace. I'm starting to wonder if Rev hasn't totally outsmarted us and she does this on purpose so that we go over there. *laughs* But I did consider that they might be in their rat teens right now and that's just sparking odd behavior. It's almost neurotic. I haven't seen any other indication that they are not getting along, they just both have a weird thing about food. It's like they're both compulsive stashers, but Reve will eat whenever she wants and insist that Rou puts the food back in the stash. I know winter is coming girls, but come on now! No need to ration!

I actually have a pair of babies in their own cage right now. About a month old, very little, still pretty jumpy. For the time, we've been trust training and bonding before I introduce them to the big girls. (big is so relative, they're still young too!) I'm wondering if having another pair in with them will break up some of that weird dynamic going on. Maybe take some of the attention away or distract Reve. She can't police all three, right? (Just watch her do it to spite me!) 

But I think it's going to be another couple weeks before the little ones get integrated into the big cage, so we'll have to wait and see how that goes!


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Unfortunately, she can police a cage full. My male does with his 8 cage mates. But keep in mind some females won't accept young girls so be wary. It may mean no introductions until 12 weeks. Definitely want to make sure both pairs have a stable and healthy dynamic.

Rats have a neurotic hatred for food bowls. In the rat world, they wouldn't leave food like that out but rather take it somewhere safe. Two food bowls in the cage in vastly different areas could make sure that one has time enough to eat without being bothered or can sneak and eat without being noticed. Since you have a double unit, one on the top and one on the bottom is best. It'll also probably be necessary when you integrate the newer ones.

If you are concerned or problems are getting excessive, you could make feeding time happen twice a day outside the cage.


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## Baru (Oct 2, 2013)

Those sound like ideas to take into consideration! Thank you. Having a hatred for that food bowl sounds about right, although I did definitely notice this has only been going on for the past couple weeks. Before that, they only took out their favorite things and not even all of them. Now it's every last piece. I guess they decided they really like that hammock for a warehouse!

I'm definitely going to be waiting a while to even begin introductions until the little ones are more trusting at the very least. (Although I am currently planning an item swap from one cage to the other for scent reasons.) They're well on their way to settling in after only a few days, but they are definitely a switch from my older pair. Both Rou and Reve were very, very quick to bond with me and they never really had any problems being picked up. Not nearly as skittish about noises and the like, either. It was a bit unusual how quickly those two were very comfortable here and I don't think they were any older than the little girls. I'll be taking things slow and careful with the babies for sure, we want no mishaps or disasters around here! 

Thank you for the info and the ideas. I do keep water bottles in each unit, so I think I'll get another bowl in there and see how that goes.


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