# Manx Rats?



## oatsnyogurt

Does anybody know of any reliable breeders in Oregon/Washington that (safely) breed Manx (tailless) rats?


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## ema-leigh

Theres no such thing as 'safely' breeding manx rats. Its cruel and unfair on the rat, they need their tails to regulate their body temperature and for balance.


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## laughingrats

If you want a rat, then you should want the rat as a whole, tail included.


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## oatsnyogurt

I know that it is dangerous to breed for tailless rats, but some good breeders do breed them sometimes. One of the reasons I was wanting one is to try and get some of my non- rat loving friends to not freak out and say "eww" every time I mention them. A main reason people dislike rats is because of their "naked" tail. I've heard of people taking a liking to rats because they met one that didn't have a tail, .
If you do it just right you can have some healthy manx rats. Sorry if I offended anyone, I was just wondering. :-\


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## ema-leigh

Correction, the good breeders who are breeding manx are not letting any be available to the public. This is because they are trying to improve the health. Overall they are far too unhealthy, the mutation affects other organs too... not just their tails. Many are severly deformed. Some have fused back legs, no back legs, bowl and bladder issues. And even if you do get a healthy one, they require special care with regards to you regulating their temperature. They also wont be as agile as a normal rat and have some movement restrictions. Whilst it may seem a 'convienient' or 'desired' genetic mutation, the gene does not simply mean the rat will be tailess. And its way to early on in their development for any breeder to claim they have healthy properly formed manx's.


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## halfmoon

OatsnYogurt said:


> One of the reasons I was wanting one is to try and get some of my non- rat loving friends to not freak out and say "eww" every time I mention them. A main reason people dislike rats is because of their "naked" tail.


If you want an animal who is deformed and in bad health just to impress your friends, perhaps you need better friends. While I am all for being an advocate for rats, making a rat look not like a rat isn't helping. Buy a hamster and call it a rat if you don't want the tail.


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## oatsnyogurt

Sorry, I didn't want to start an argument. It was just a question. :-[


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## halfmoon

Oh, no. I'm not trying to be mean. It's just my point of view. I guess it sounded harsher than I would like to sound.


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## ema-leigh

Yeah none of us are trying to be mean. But if you can, dont support anyone who breeds manx... its just not fair on the rats. 

I even question ethical breeders who are trying to breed healthy manx. How can they justify doing that when so many will suffer and die in the process.


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## halfmoon

I DO NOT see any reason why someone would try to say that they are ethically breeding manx rats, unless they're only trying to make money off of them. There is nothing ethical, safe, or humane about it. They're incapable of regulating their own temperature. They are born deformed, with or without back limbs. Their internal organs are most likely deformed. It would be like trying to create a horse without hooves or a dog without a snout. It's just wrong. Please do not support this.


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## ema-leigh

It could be made ethical with time... in theory. Right now the gene doesnt just affect the tail but other organs too. Rex and hairless are both genetic mutations that took some time to make healthy as well dont forget. Hairless rats dont have eyelashes which they need to keep their eyes clear of debris... isnt that unethical by your standards? There are manx rats out there, that are perfect healthy rats, minus the tail of course. So the breeder takes that rat and finds another healthy manx rat. They have lets say 20 babies. 2 of those babies are healthy, the rest are deformed. They take the two and breed them out to some more healthy manxs. Those two babies each have a litter of 20. Thats 40 babies. Maybe 3 from each litter are healthy this time, the rest are all deformed. The breeder keeps going and going, until eventually all the rats in the litter are healthy. 

It would take many more generations than what I just mentioned to make manx healthy rats and in the process more rats would suffer than those born healthy. I dont think it will ever be ethical. Why aim to remove something the rat actually needs to survive? Why support someone creating more deformed rats than properly formed rats.


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## halfmoon

ema-leigh, I do understand your point. With time, the breeding will be improved and less and less unhealthy manx rats will be produced. Yet I don't think that having two healthy babies out of twenty, and understanding that risk, is very ethical. At least I wouldn't be able to do it. I couldn't breed them, knowing that 90 percent of the babies would be deformed and probably die.


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## ema-leigh

Yes I agree. Its completly unnecessary suffering, and even if it was acomplished... rats need their tails. So I dont think I'll ever own a manx rat... and I will definatly NEVER breed them thats for sure.


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## halfmoon

I think the only way I would ever own one is if it was a rescue in need of a home. ;D


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## quaintuncanny1

my friends hate my rats tails too. but too bad its a part of them n i love em for who they are. if your friend has an ugly nose lol tell them well how would you feel if i didnt like you cuz of your nose


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## Blue

Now I have a question. I saw on a rattery website that someone was breeding Manx but that they are not for sale. Is that considered a good breeder because they are trying to make them healthy (yes I read the good/bad breeder page) or a bad one because they are breeding them? Also I might as well ask.. different breed.... I have been curious about hairless rats, however, ones that I have seen always have scratches on them from their cage mate. It has always bothered me that they seem to have no fur to protect them. Are they still healthy though?


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## ema-leigh

No that doesn't make them an ethical breeder. I can give her some respect for not letting them available to the public.. but that usually means shes sending them to other breeder friends. I think I have see this breeders web page too! At the end of the day, they are still producing more babies that are deformed than what are healthy... and aiming to mutate a rat of something it really needs. Without their tails they can not regulate body temperature right and they have some movement restrictions. This can NEVER EVER be deemed ethical. Its the same as someone trying to breed a healthy line of high whites that don't get mega colon. Its pointless because you will still be creating sick rats in the process, and all for the sake of demand. 

Also there ARE healthy hairless lines now, but there are even more unhealthy lines. I would defiantly only adopt from an good breeder if you want a good hairless rat. They are prone to more health issues, and require extra protein, food and warmth. They don't have the fur to protect them, or eyelashes to stop things going in their eyes. However they are not in the same level of cruelness as Manx rats. Some lines also have lactating issues, so sometimes there is even more cruelness going on behind the scenes such as the breeder culling babies to lessen the load on the mother and make sure theres enough milk. 

Honestly I would just steer clear from both types. If you like the hairless look, go with a breeder with a good double rex line. They are generally mostly hairless, but retain some fur... mainly around their face so they have eyelashes and what not!


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## Elizabethm

i agree the only way i would have a manx rat would be if it was a rescue and only if it did not appear to be suffering or in pain, i would still take it directly to a vet apon recieving to get x-rays etc. but personally i love rat tails. they arnt actually hairless,,, they are peachfuzzy. good luck in finding a rat you like but please do not support manx rat breeders. that is not something to gloat about because they make countless baby rats suffer and die for just 1 healthy looking manx. its cruel and unusual punishment for those eepers


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## PEG

Hold on...While I understand and agree with the fact that we should not support the manx rat breeders I don't understand then why it's okay to support the hairless rat breeders when it's practically the SAME thing...We took away something that the rats have naturally, their fur, and went through the same process with them to get to where we are now as breeders are doing with manx rats. So why is it okay to support the hairless rat breeders if it's not okay to support the manx rat breeders?


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## Elizabethm

the hairless rat breed has been perfected more and by more knolagable breeders. manx breeders claim they are doing good but they arnt. it causes an animal to suffer and possibly die. it is more important for rats to have tails as it regulates body heat by swetting and also balance. it is not gonna kill a rat to not have fur as long as the owner is educated on its special housing need. they are breeding hairless guinie pigs, cats, dogs, mice, etc. also hairless animals are popular with people who like pets but have fur allergies


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## PEG

Elizabethm - Thank you for that insight I appreciate hearing a good valid opinion and facts.


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## Elizabethm

your welcome. i love animals so i decided to look into all types even hairless. that is what caused me to choose hairless rats. i am allergic to rats hair including all other rodents, mice, guinie pigs anything in the rodent family


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## ema-leigh

Honestly, all the different types and varieties first started with health issues that needed to be worked on and if breeders didn't we'd still just have blacks and Agoutis. But the problems associated with Manx are too severe, making some of the rats born deformed and as already mentioned unable to regular their temperature or have normal range of balance even if they are healthy. Since pet rats live indoors, the temperature can be regulated... therefore hairless varieties are easier to accommodate for. They are more prone to eye problems and scratches, therefore should only be kept by more experienced owners... but they are considerably minor ailments compared to those of the Manx who can be born with fused back legs, fused organs, missing organs etc. Lots of the time the ''not available to the public'' thing means they also do not have to disclose the health records of these rats being bred behind the scenes. Or their litter survival rates are extremely low.


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