# Don't buy rats or any pets from pet stores!!



## Joellephant (Jul 6, 2014)

People, please do not buy animals from Petco, Petsmart, or any other pet stores... Here's what happens to them...

http://www.peta2.com/blog/pet-store-cruelty/?utm_campaign=0714%20Horrifying%20Reasons%20NEVER%20to%20Buy%20From%20Pet%20Stores%20Post&utm_source=peta2%20Facebook&utm_medium=Promo


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## Aeyna (Jun 16, 2014)

Honestly, I take anything that comes from PETA with a giant rock of salt. Not only are they questionable as a company, but the people in charge believe that keeping animals as pets is cruel, and I don't think that anyone here wants to get rid of all of their pets. They also tend to fund the people who will go out and bomb labs and such. 

That being said, there are cases of animal cruelty all around the world, and it's horrible. But three of my rats are from PetSmart, and they are sweet, social, and healthy. There are people here who have had bad experiences as well as good ones at pet stores. I think that excluding all pet stores isn't the answer to this problem, but rather higher regulations and more frequent inspections of breeders. I feel like there are plenty of responsible stores and breeders, and they just get a bad name from the handful of irresponsible ones.


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## ClassicFAIL (Aug 2, 2013)

I work at petsmart. We get our rats from a reputable breeder called Holly Acers (I forget if its holly archers or holly hill) Farm. They do not inbreed and all of their lines are bred to have the lowest risk of cancer. Petsmart has vets that come and check out the location regularly and they are inspected before leaving to go to the shop. We also have a vet on standby 24/7 incase out animals are hurt or sick. (I work in the small animal department) Our Vet has 2 locations in Rawnherst and in Elkns Park.


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## mimsy (Jun 8, 2014)

I hate to be a jerk, but PETA is very agenda driven and most of what the say is either not true or highly exaggerated. I agree that most pet stores get pets from production type breeders and I believe a lot of these pets are then bought by people on a whim who then get rid of it for the next cool toy and that is terrible. they talked about rats with a respiratory disorder that is caused by over crowded unclean breeding, however a lot of rats have respiratory issues even in the best of situations. 

Their are good breeders large and small, but I've been involved in a lot of animal rescues that involved small at home breeders that were truly horrible. Animal abuse in the form of neglect and over crowding happens whether or not they sell to chain pet stores. Most Pet stores are not going to want receive pets from abusive breeders, if no other reason it's terrible publicity. I've also noticed in recent years a lot of the big chains, including petco and petsmart do a lot more work with rescues. When I did ferret rescue I went to a lot of petco and petsmarts with their invitations to educate and adopt out my rescues. The one closest to my home currently also takes back a lot of their animals and works with them. They have a lil sun conure currently that was brought back after 2 years and now has a biting issue. The gals in there are always carrying him around on their shoulders and they keep him on a perch at the counter behind them. They hope to work with him so that he can eventually be rehomed. 

With that said I would always rather get any pet from a breeder or even better a rescue that I can visit and see for myself the care of the animals.


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## Joellephant (Jul 6, 2014)

I agree, I dont think every pet store get their pets from places like these, but how do you know? Its not like they're going to say "Oh we get our pets from mills and they're treated horrible, but you know that place over there, they get theirs from a responsible breeder!". I just dont want to take a chance, so the next time I get rats, I'll either get them from a rescue or a breeder, but I'm glad you got some nice rats from petsmart


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## EmilyGPK (Jul 7, 2014)

I am the first to agree that pet store animals often come from bad conditions. But that blog post paints everyone with the same brush. For example by saying every single pet store crams animals together just to make money. No, not every single store. Each store is run by a person who makes their own decisions and some make better decisions than others.


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## annoellyn (Sep 19, 2013)

i definitely agree that, in most cases, animals shouldn't be bought from pet stores. especially the chain ones. but i bought two of my rats and my rabbit from a locally owned pet store and they were all treated great, were healthy and happy, had the correct food and bedding, proper cages.
and on a side note, peta is a questionable animal rights organization. i live a vegan lifestyle and was, of course, drawn to peta's organization because they seemed pretty active. but most of there shelters have MUCH higher rates of euthanasia then regular shelters and they were actually being threatened by the court to make them change there status to Euthanasia clicic because the ratio of adopted vs euthanized pets were so skewered that they almost couldn't legally call themselves a rescue.
http://www.animalarkshelter.org/ani...enForm&Photo=359091280758C4BE86257B4A005353A6


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

The source is dubious yes but the point is right. 

Pets from pet stores just don't receive the level of care, attention, and just about everythig else that ethical breeders can provide. 

Additionally, by purchasing from pet stores you fund any and all processes the store does and their suppliers. Like how you can buy a candy bar and inadvertently support anjmal testing. 

Furthermore, I always encourage rescues and more than just feeders. Most rescues just don't have the resources to deal with all neglected animals. Your adoption of two rats can open up two spots for rats that need it..


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Just to add...

Just think about what you hae to do to obtain the pet your adopting or rescuing. 

Don't act fishy, sign your name..now you have a pet store pet. I've never been asked for an id or any verification when signing for pets from pet stores (if I have to sign at all). Also, they will try to sell these to you without your interest. They ask three questions - do you hve food, cage, know how to care??


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## LeStan82 (Dec 31, 2013)

My view on this ( all rats I have owned have been petstore and feeder rats, mainly cause not many breeders in my area and those that are remotely close, wait list is long). Even if you dont buy from them there will always be people that do. Just like any product, there is always someone who will buy it. The rats cant help the fact where they came from and the conditions they are kept, but rat mills will always breed and people will always buy.and these rats need to be loved and gotten out of those crummy conditions, so I feel like if I can give them a good happy home for the short time they have in this world then I feel good about it. Every rat I've owned, I brought home, and when they seen their huge cage with all the neat stuff for them and other ratty buddies, the happiness and excitement in their expressions is priceless. I do understand what goes on in mills and its so heartbreaking but I would rather buy them and give em a good home than wonder what happened to them if no one buys them. So, thats my thoughts anyways...


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## Perocore (Jan 6, 2014)

I don't think; "or any other pet stores" is quite right. I for one would love to open my own pet store someday and all of our animals would certainly be very well kept, both mentally and physically. I know of many pet stores where the rats come from a private breeder (not a rat mill) and are very healthy, happy animals. Of course there are pet mills out there that exist to supply large pet stores, but not every single pet store mistreats their animals. In fact our local PetCo takes pretty good care of their rats. I've yet to see males in with females ever, and the rats are all quite friendly and rather healthy. I have breeders near by, and rescues, so it's not necessary for me to buy rats with unknown family histories from there, but for some people it is. Is it best to buy from a breeder or rescue from a shelter? Yes, of course, but not all pet stores are evil.

And, considering PETA launched a campaign against Pokemon, I don't take anything to do with it seriously anymore.


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## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

My thoughts from pet stores is my animals are from them, and If I didn't get them they would just suffer in the cages, anyways or be shipped some where when they are to old. The breeders are still going to breed the animals so even if I didn't get my rats from the pet store their would still be more going in, either way you are saving an animal from a miserable place. 

Also for some it is the only way to get their pets because some places just don't have any breeders or healthy safe breeders. I know I can't find any near me at all.


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

Sometimes, a pet store like Petco or Petsmart is just your only option. I hate just as much as anyone to think that they get their animals from mills where they are treated horribly, but I think sometimes we convince ourselves into thinking that by not buying pets from these stores, we are stopping the supply and demand, and the abuse will stop. It just won't, like others said, there are always others who WILL buy pet store animals. If you seriously wanted to distance yourself from animal abuse of any kind, you'd need to stop buying the majority of name brand consumer goods, stop taking pharmaceutical medications, don't seek out the cure for many deadly diseases, etc. Animal testing is all around us, and those animals are subjected to horrific conditions and experiments designed to test them physically, mentally, and emotionally. I think that at the end of the day if you can save a pet store animal from being snake food and give it a chance at a great life, it's worth it to buy it from the pet store. Always go for rescues before stores of course, but don't feel awful if you buy one from a pet store. Those animals need love too. Also, breeders are necessarily always a better option that pet stores. Have you ever seen breeder racks? They're really depressing to look at. A lot of breeders who claim watch genetics closely and handle their rats daily and all that still keep them in plastic bins on wood shavings. 


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## mimsy (Jun 8, 2014)

A little devils advocate for those that are rescueing from pet stores. I'm not knocking it and if you have no other place well that's that. However, if you have a rescue near you every time you adopt an animal you are keeping their doors open. If you don't get the pet from a pet store they are not going to shut their doors, they may start to purchase less animals if it's a big trend but that's it, they make most of their money on product. A rescue however can only hold so many animals and if you have a good one near you, you really want to support it so they can keep taking in unwanted pets.


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## ksaxton (Apr 20, 2014)

I meant breeders *ARENT necessarily, this stupid phone 


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## alexn (Sep 30, 2012)

Hi


nanashi7 said:


> Just to add...
> 
> Just think about what you hae to do to obtain the pet your adopting or rescuing.
> 
> ...


This depends entirely on the store, and to be honest, the country you're in. We have a large set of questions we have to ask, plus any others that personally spring to mind, we take all the details of the person buying (name, address, contact details etc) and have every right to refuse sales if we don't think the person is capable of treating the animal the way it needs. I've rejected someone for rats before because, while they seemed to care enough, further chatting about their lifestyle (single, 9-5, lots of week-long business trips) just wasn't suitable in terms of attention being given. 

Some shops do care. 

Edit: And we ask for ID. If you're under 18, your parent/guardian has to agree to be the one taking legal responsibility. 

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## deedeeiam (Apr 8, 2014)

All pet stores are not created equal. Period. I also find it funny to bash on pet stores when they're the ones that have at some point brought these animals into our lives. 

PETA can go jump off a bridge though. They worked with our legislation to ban "exotic" animals in our state. Unless we own "white albino rats that spin and dance" (*Exact quote from the LAW*), they're banned. Hedgehogs, neon tetras, my African Soft Fur rats, sugar gliders, my black rats, my 8 inch rear fanged but completely harmless snail-eating snake, dwarf hamster....ALL are in danger thanks to PETA. Either I pay $100 per year, per animal...or I have to surrender all that to the State for them to most likely be euthanized.


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## Phantom (Apr 4, 2012)

deedeeiam- What state do you live in? 
Remind me never to move there. My boyfriend and I love exotic animals and have owned quite a few of them in the past. 

As for pet stores, it really depends. Yes, there are some pet stores that get their animals from horrible places, but not all of them do. There's one pet store around where I live that gets their dumbo rats maybe once or twice a year from a local breeder. There's also a pet store around my area that breeds their own rats (granted they are feeders), but they do keep them in slightly spacier bar cages instead of tanks. It really depends on the pet store you go to.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

ClassicFAIL said:


> They do not inbreed and all of their lines are bred to have the lowest risk of cancer.


I think its important to say that inbreeding isn’t necessarily bad if done well, in fact it is one of the best tools we can use to improve rats health, lifespan and temperament. Also selecting away from cancer is not going to be effective (or actually possible) without a combination of inbreeding and keeping data on the vast majority of animals bred. In a pet shop environment this isn’t possible as there is no follow up on pet homes. Its worth saying though that not all pet shops are equal, and some do make a genuine effort with there animal care.

I’m not a big fan of PETA, they generally try and inflame things and defintily don’t do a rounded view. I do recommend anyone who buys from a pet shop or similar that gets rats from a mass breeder (aka a rat or rodent farm) has a look at this http://www.fancyratsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=76 . it is a European rodent farm but from those I have spoken to that have visited others it is a fairly typical one.

I am biased, I breed rats and many of my friends are breeders. However I’ve had rats for many years now and from pretty much every source including pet shop feeders (before selling live feeders became very rare in the UK), pet shop “fancys”, private rescue, rat rescue and breeder rats. I’ve also seen good and bad examples of all of those.

I think the most important thing is to work out whats important to you and how you can encourage the best for both your rats and those rats in the future. How important you see those future rats is a very personal decision. For me it really matters what I am condoning and supporting when I get my rats from a particular source. I don’t want to support rats brought into the world in poor conditions with little or no thought to there health and wellbeing. From a purely selfish point of view I also like to have a good proportion of rats that are good with people, trustworthy and generally sound health wise. For this it means I generally get my rats from good ethical breeders who I know well and also know how the kittens are raised. Its not always an easy option, though I will admit I’m spoilt for choice where I am now, though 5-10 years ago it was a lot harder when I was looking for my first breeder rats and wasn’t as involved in the uk rat fancy. 

It takes research, time and often a long wait to get the right rats, it doesn’t matter if they are from a good breeder or rescue. Finding the right place that you are comfortable with and you can build a good relationship with is so helpful long term. To me getting rats is more than just getting the creatures, its forming a friendship and even broader sense of family. The vast majority of pet homes for our little ones become one big rat family which often helps each other out and importantly to us keeps us up dated on the health and wellbeing of the babies. This in turn means we can improve the next generation by sensible selections and as most of our pet homes come back, they then get lovely related rats who hopefully are a little healthier, and live a little longer than there first. Its actually pretty special to be part of and I don’t believe we are exceptional in that, there’s lots of great community’s out there by they for a breeders rats, or from a big rescue and that’s something you really cant replace with pet shop rats


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## deedeeiam (Apr 8, 2014)

West Virginia. 

The public comment period is open until August 1. Any comments can be mailed to Jodee Martin at the Department of Agriculture address: 1900 Kanawha Boulevard, East Charleston, WV 25305. Comments can also be emailed to Martin at [email protected] Please feel free to inform them how dumb they are.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

When I first came to the internet community of rat owners, there was clearly a bias against snake food bin rats and pet shop rats and those who own them.

OK, I want a better world for pets too. In fact I'd likely envision a better world for both rats and humans... I'd love to see all rats treated better from birth to death and I might even want to do some thing about starving human children too. I've dedicated a great deal of my personal time to helping people with their rats, so I do what I can, but it would be nice to do more.

Back to reality... 

When I first logged on to another forum, I was told in no uncertain terms that my rat was third rate junk and that I was basically evil for having snatched her from a snake food bin and for supporting a cruel industry with my $2.49. 

Now let me lay this out in no uncertain terms... The rat that all of the rat snobs there called junk grew up to be one of the finest animals and perhaps beings of any kind I've ever known. She was the truly amazing Fuzzy Rat, one of the most competent true shoulder rats ever documented and she taught us all about immersion.... She changed hearts and minds and made hundreds of friends during her life time, her life improved the lives of thousands of other rats and even saved the lives of some, and she inspired me to help other rat owners to have a better relationship with their rats.

Now likely I'm biased, but I would have gladly given $2.49 to the devil himself to rescue Fuzzy Rat from a snake food bin. And I'm pretty sensitive about anyone saying that folks shouldn't rescue rats from pet shops or snake food bins in general. The rats that are raised in rat mills and sold through pet shops are innocent animals. They haven't done anything wrong. They haven't hurt anybody and no one should say they don't deserve good forever homes.

Rats from humble roots can grow up to be loving pets, cherished friends and in some cases they can change the world, even if only a little bit.

Rail against rat mistreatment and I'm with you. Boycott dry good from pet shops and I'll support you. But if anyone wants to say that rats that find themselves in pet shops don't deserve to be adopted into good forever homes for political reasons, or any reasons aside from their health or temperament THEY ARE WRONG.

Fuzzy Rat deserves respect, and she overcame injuries and challenges and lived a remarkable life to earn it. In fact some folks that might be reading this might owe their great relationships, in part, with their rats to Fuzzy Rat... Our other rats have come from snake food bins too. Only one had an auspicious birth with a breeder and wound up in a snake food bin anyway. But they have all been wonderful animals and I don't think I should have left any of them behind to die a horrible death.

I absolutely don't want to be misunderstood here, because I'm NOT promoting animal abuse... Nor am I telling anyone where to get their rats... But if anyone suggests that we should hold innocent animals hostage and sentence them to misery or death in a deranged attempt to somehow improve their lives... they have lost their bleeping minds! This is the same ILLOGIC that brought us concentration camps. Lets just kill a few million people to improve the world... Killing millions of people doesn't improve the world for anybody... Sentencing innocent rats in pet shops to death or despair doesn't help them and discriminating against them and their owners is nothing more than bigotry. You save a rat by giving it a good home, not by leaving it in a snake food bin! And when you don't take a rat home, it will be fed to a reptile and another rat will replace it in the store anyway. And if you think that by not buying one pet shop rat you are going to somehow kill an industry built primarily on lab animals and reptile food, you are seriously kidding yourself. 

We are fast approaching July 15th, the first anniversary of Fuzzy Rat's passing. Immersion, based very much on her life has had over 33,000 reads, I've personally worked with a whole lot of folks and we have fixed a whole lot of screwed up rats... And thousands of rats lives have been improved by what a little (well actually big and pudgy) feeder bin refuge taught us. 

So, I'm asking everyone to PLEASE think about what they write about rats that aren't high born. EVERY rat deserves a chance at a good forever home. And ANY rat can grow up to be a best furry friend and some can even become amazing. When you discourage people from adopting any rat, you may be sentencing an innocent animal to death... is that what you really want?

I'll let everyone decide for themselves whether I'm evil or not, but I'll defend our rats right to have a home, to be just as loved and just as special as any other rats. 

So, if anyone finds it in their heart to adopt a rat from ANYWHERE, breeder, rescue, pet shop or feeder bin, I'm counting them among my friends. And I don't discriminate against any rat regardless of it's place of birth. And I believe that every rat should have a chance to be special and amazing. And lastly, I have no tolerance for people that think I should have left my best furry friends to die a horrible death for any reason. It's time for this discussion to finally end! 

Please, if you really want to help, find some other way of changing the world that doesn't get innocent rats killed...

NOT SNAKE FOOD!




















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## Aeyna (Jun 16, 2014)

Wow, Rat Daddy, that was extremely well said. Bravo. I agree with everything you said, and couldn't have said it any better. 

Fuzzy Rat is inspirational, and I strive to have that kind of relationship with my rats. I love my rats, and no one will ever be able to convince me that they are inferior because they came from the pet store.


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## LeStan82 (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks Rat daddy, well said!. And thats the way I feel too and thats why I rescue feeders and petstore rats. Forgive me for saying this but, breeder rats have a decent life in the breeders care and so are rescued rats once they are rescued but feeders and petstore rats are taken out of a bad situation and put right back into another bad situation. I cant help but to feel sorry for these guys and want to give them a good life they deserve just like breeder rats. So sorry if people get offended because I buy them and give them the life they deserve  my rats sure are happy I saved them


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## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

Better then I could ever put it Rat Daddy.


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## Charlottesmom (Nov 27, 2013)

We got our last two rats from Petsmart, we got our mouse from Petsmart and I got all my bettas from either Petco or Petsmart. The 3 baby boy ratties we are picking up tomorrow are from a breeder (who also breeds for food). I doubt my 3 critter purchases from Petco/Petsmart if diverted elsewhere would put them out of business, they were the only option at the time. If the bonedomes from PETA had their way NO ONE would have pets of any kind and we would all be vegans (nothing against vegans). We should all be able to get our pet any way we see fit, be it petshop, feeder bin, breeder, adoption or saving from a stupid friend who has no idea how to care for the animal they bought spur of the moment.


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## Maddie (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm not advocating buying rats from Pet stores, but I think when posting a topic like this it would be best to have more facts and not just something from Peta. They are usually very biased as anyone knows. I don't normally buy animals from Petshops, but I was in Petsmart the other day playing with the rats there. They ran up to me as soon as I walked in front of the cage. They were healthy and extremely social. There is even a guy that works there that just works with the rodents and knows a lot about them. Again, I'm not saying pet store animals are great, I'm just saying using PETA as your only source isn't giving you much information.


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## MaryLiz (Jun 15, 2014)

I don't particularly like Petco or Petsmart (mostly because the Petsmart I have access to is run by people who don't know what they're doing and were rude to me once while I was buying a hefty amount of fish supplies), and I would rather support smaller local shops. But even though it may be a political issue, I have to say that my opinion about PETA is that they're more about controlling people than they are about helping animals (although I do use their list as one of several of my go-to lists of cosmetic companies that don't test on animals. Most things do have some redeeming quality at least).

As mentioned before, I believe that PETA's stand point is that animals shouldn't be pets at all, which I think if you own any pets you probably don't agree with. As Rat Daddy said, people who live-feed will always fuel the feeder industry. My boys came from a feeder bin at a small shop, to be honest I did look into adoption but in my area there literally are no shelters that take small animals like that. The nearest small animal rescue is hours and hours away (and after looking at their policies I wouldn't have adopted from them anyway). So I'm not ashamed that I bought them from a petshop, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Even if you're not buying your rats at a petshop, the big chain stores will always be selling other pets and supplies that will keep them in business anyway.


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