# Fighting / Excessive Humping in Males



## ccnayelicc (Feb 9, 2016)

Not incredibly long ago I decided to get an addition to my currently 11 month old rats. Two intact males. I rescued another little boy, intact also and 5 months old (maybe). Introductions went well. I used the carrier method and had them all together in a carrier for 48 hours. Little to no peeps but the normal quiet squeaks you hear every now and then. 

After the 48 hours I moved them into my single critter nation. I scrubbed everything down, kept the cage as small and simple as possible to continue with the carrier method. No hides, no extra shelf, etc. It stayed this way for two weeks because I wanted to make for sure everyone was settled. There were no issues other than one. Sully (the new boy) has an extreme obsession with humping Tucker (the largest and oldest and who I thought was my alpha). I was pretty sure this was domination Behavior and I'm still not exactly sure at this point. Though he doesn't attempt it to the same extent on Rossie, the other oldest boy.

What is confusing me the most is that sometimes Tucker will ACT like an in heat female. He'll bounce around, vibrate his ears, and even move his tail to the side when he's accepting of this behavior from Sully. Also how frequently this goes on. I want to say Sully will try at least once every half hour when they're not sleeping. 

Understandably Tucker gets annoyed and will retaliate. Now Tucker vastly out weighs Sully. I have no idea why he hasn't put the little boy in his place yet or if Sully is just extremely stubborn. I have seen Tucker side walk towards Sully rarely leading to anything more than that other than a possible pin from one or the other.It's now been past three weeks of them all being in the single critter nation together. A week ago I added their second shelf again and a single hide. There had been absolutely no blood up until yesterday that I noticed that Tucker had a small cut along his nose. I have no idea who bit him (Rossie and Tucker do have small spats every now and then). I thought it was just porphyrin possibly on his nose when I first saw it. 

So I'm wondering now if I should be worried? Does anyone have any idea why Sully seems so intent on humping so often? I'm completely aware that neutering would most likely get rid of most if not all of these issues. At the moment though it's just not a possibility :/ the charges locally are extremely high and my family is tight on money due to the holidays. Let me know if any of you would like video of the boys. I'm more than willing to share. 

https://i.imgur.com/4mo3bU0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/F87BniZ.jpg Sully and Tucker just a few minutes after finding the cut 

Sorry if the paragraphs didn't separate like they should've! Typed this up real quick on my phone.


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

So you have 5 males? How old is Sully? A single CN can be a bit on the small side of space for 5 males if they are a bit pushy to one another and depending on how well the space is used. Often people leave the non shelf side pretty open wasting all that space. Two-three water bottles, multiple food dishes, lots of different types of beds. Can help.

There is no alpha/dominance stuff. It is all myths that for some reason people like to try and push, probably the same reason they try and push it on dogs and other animals. While there are dominance behaviors in rats it is not so simple as dominant vs submissive. It is not that one rat is the alpha and the others just need to submit.

The real issue is complicated social behaviors and/or hormones. 

First, are you a thousand percent sure that you do not have a female? The amount of posts I see of people missexing their rats is insane, so it does happen. Sometimes ladies will have fat pads that people mistake for testicles. You can check for nipples, as only females have nipples but sometimes nipples can be impossible to see so do not go by that alone.

Check for the vaginal opening.









Sometimes males will hump each other alot. 

Hormones affect all males differently. It seems like Sully is quite hormonal. Tucker sidewalking is not a good sign. There are definitely tensions. 
Your best bet is to separate them. Find the rats that are least problematic together and split them up. Sometimes in a smaller group things will change so you may need to try different rats together to see who works best together. 
Sully may chill out or it could get worse. For sure tensions will get worse with them all together though.


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## ccnayelicc (Feb 9, 2016)

I only have three males. Tucker and Rossie are the older boys, about 11 months, and Sully is the new addition, about 6 months or so. Also yes I'm 2000% sure they're all males. The balls are blaringly obvious. (Honestly I'm not sure how people missex them so easily)The only issue I have with separating them is that Sully will be alone in an extremely small cage until I'm able to somehow afford to either neuter him or buy a CN add on.When I'm able to I fill up as much space as possible in their cage. Sully has yet to experience this though as I've kept the cage simple to continue with what the Carrier method suggested to try and avoid fighting. I currently have two water bottles, but only one food bowl. I can try more bowls / scatter feeding to distract the hyperactive Sully.


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## ccnayelicc (Feb 9, 2016)

Pictures of the boys, just for good measure:

http://i.imgur.com/OM3JKDE.jpg Sully
http://i.imgur.com/jWlX6tk.jpg Tucker
http://i.imgur.com/XKkbTKb.jpg Rossie


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