# pituitary tumor, losing a rat HELP



## QueenBea (Feb 12, 2015)

Hello ratforum, long time no see. Sadly it isn't a happy hello. 

My beloved rat Clementine has been slowing down the past few weeks, I figured it was because she's about 2 years old and from a petstore, I thought it was just her time.
However, today she suddenly got a lot worse, and she is showing almost every symptom of a pituitary tumor. I'm upset that I didn't notice it sooner, as it's painful to see her movement now. She's extremely slow, seems to be dragging her paws around, can't hold food to eat, and tilts her head in awkward positions.
I fed her some boiled egg and some avacodo because of the extreme weight she's lost. 

Over all she seems extremely disoriented, hardly being able to get around the cage (I added ladders back in), so I've decided to call the vet tomorrow to put her down.

I'm worried about how to go about it. Should I bring Mazie so she will know Clementine is dead, and not just gone? Will that scare Mazie more because she won't be home? Should I ask the vet to come to my home to put her down? Besides a mammary tumor, Mazie is all healthy, and I'm sure she at least has a few months ahead of her... How will she cope? How should I cope? 

Any help will be appreciated... Thank you... my entire family is very hurt by this, my rats helped me through a lot of trauma these past few years, and I don't know how to let her go...


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Are you able to get a video of her so we can help figure out if maybe it was a stroke or inner ear infection rather than PT? It would be better to rule that out.

As for PT, its not an automatic death sentence if you want to try. You can start with steroids, see if your vet will give her an injection of dexamethasone (a very fast acting, long duration steroid) where you should see a real improvement in 24 hours. You should get oral prednisone to take home and start her on it right away. This is steroid therapy for PT rats. if she has a really good response and you and your vet are willing to try, you can ask for a prescription of bromocriptine (2.5 mg tablets given at 3 mg/kg) as this is an actual treatment for PT in humans and other animals. The PT has to be the most common type, a prolactinoma, for bromo to work, but when it does it can give almost "miraculous" results at times. I have brought back almost completely immobile rats from the brink with a dex injection then bromocriptine made Malcolm almost symptom-free for 6 months when he passed due to other causes at 32 months of age.


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## Chloelol (Feb 15, 2016)

Hi QueenBea - Sorry this is happening to you.

I chose to take Badger home after she was put down. I laid her on a towel in the middle of their room (spare bedroom/office) and one by one got my other rats out of the cage and showed her to them. It was one of the most heartbreaking moments I have ever witnessed, so please be prepared for that. Her sisters we got her with (she was 1 out of 3) were noticeably sadder and skittish afterwards, but seemed to be back to normal within 24 hours. Her other sisters were perfectly fine on the other hand, whether showing her helped I don't really know, however I would recommend it if you are able to.

I really hope you don't need to use my advice.

Best wishes!


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## QueenBea (Feb 12, 2015)

Chloelol said:


> Hi QueenBea - Sorry this is happening to you.
> 
> I chose to take Badger home after she was put down. I laid her on a towel in the middle of their room (spare bedroom/office) and one by one got my other rats out of the cage and showed her to them. It was one of the most heartbreaking moments I have ever witnessed, so please be prepared for that. Her sisters we got her with (she was 1 out of 3) were noticeably sadder and skittish afterwards, but seemed to be back to normal within 24 hours. Her other sisters were perfectly fine on the other hand, whether showing her helped I don't really know, however I would recommend it if you are able to.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I will try this if it comes to that.


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## QueenBea (Feb 12, 2015)

lilspaz68 said:


> Are you able to get a video of her so we can help figure out if maybe it was a stroke or inner ear infection rather than PT? It would be better to rule that out.
> 
> As for PT, its not an automatic death sentence if you want to try. You can start with steroids, see if your vet will give her an injection of dexamethasone (a very fast acting, long duration steroid) where you should see a real improvement in 24 hours. You should get oral prednisone to take home and start her on it right away. This is steroid therapy for PT rats. if she has a really good response and you and your vet are willing to try, you can ask for a prescription of bromocriptine (2.5 mg tablets given at 3 mg/kg) as this is an actual treatment for PT in humans and other animals. The PT has to be the most common type, a prolactinoma, for bromo to work, but when it does it can give almost "miraculous" results at times. I have brought back almost completely immobile rats from the brink with a dex injection then bromocriptine made Malcolm almost symptom-free for 6 months when he passed due to other causes at 32 months of age.


Yeah last night I read more into it and decided to take her to the vet for a normal visit, he said she either has the ear infection or PT, so he gave us meds for the ear infection to start out with, we will re-visit in a week. I have the double critter nation so i blocked off the bottom half and added the ramps back in so Clementine could get around, which she still falls off the ramps sometimes, but i put both of the small levels in the top so it can't be a long fall. I also bought baby food because she can't eat her lab blocks anymore due to not being able to hold them. I also haven't witnessed her drinking at all, and I've been watching her closely, so I'll be mixing them with water. 

Is there anything else you'd recommend doing right now? If we go back and its PT for sure, I do believe we will start on the medications for it.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Did the vet give you steroids? If not she will continue to regress, hopefully slowly.If you get the video I might be able to help you better determine if it's PT or inner ear, as I will recognize the subtler behaviors you may not, as I have seen over 100 PT rats. Clubbing of paws, how she turns, loss of edge behavior, a general malaise and dullness, etc. Inner ear you are looking for brighter more aware eyes, although they might be filled with pain, more adept and quicker movements and headtilt


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## Fayrie (Jun 28, 2016)

As for the lab blocks to help her eat, mix a few with hot water, oatmeal and chicken baby food to help her eat  she will hopefully love it. smear a small amount of avocado on top to make it gourmet.


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## Paul_Julian (Oct 31, 2011)

Hopefully it's not PT , but a video is must, just like lilspaz68 said.

Adding my two cents.
Acting fast is most of important in fighting with PT, and a video or even pics of how your rat sits and how holds food is a must.
Dosage that works :
Galastop (cabergoline 0.05mg/ml) in the ammount of at least 2 ml, even 5 ml on first day , then 2 ml every 3 days. 
Dostinex (cabergoline 0,5mg) in the ammount of 1/4 of pill every 3 days
Bromocorn/bromergon (bromocryptine 2,5mg) in the ammount of 1/2 pill for 500 gram of weight.

If there is progression - continue giving meds, might be along with steroids.
I only had few rats with PT but such treatment was consulted with best rodent specialization vets around.

and a link cause noone added it yet: http://ratguide.com/health/neoplasia/pituitary_tumor.php

Pay attention if you notice :
rat crosses her wrists and is unable to uncross them like here http://archive.magwet.com/gfx/articles2/e170_179/e179/e179_zapowiedzi_ryc14.jpg ( this is PT sign)
sits like that http://pokazywarka.pl/cl2koi/ (straight hind and front legs)
moves front paws like that ( as if doing stretching/yoga pose) http://archive.magwet.com/gfx/articles2/e150_159/e153/e153_zapowiedzi_ryc11.jpg
shows sign of pain if you lift her head up
And the movies :
( from vet) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8W2fkger6M
( my rat with PT suspicion, he was old and I changed notice of his sitting and behaviour during 1-2 days) https://youtu.be/jMIYWnZUT9k 
And here is 2 days later after giving meds https://youtu.be/3jdzqWVEQF8 ( there is improvement)

Also watch how rat eats baby food. Healthy rat will eat babyfood focused on the food and starting from one part, and finishing on second part. Rat with PT will rather smear the food than eat, no focus, trying to lick here, trying to lick there. 
You will notice complete lack of concentraion on everything rat does.

I didnt notice in my PT rats (and with any PT ones I read about) tilting of the head. 
Hopefully Clemetine only got ear infection ( easy to catch such )


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## QueenBea (Feb 12, 2015)

Fayrie said:


> As for the lab blocks to help her eat, mix a few with hot water, oatmeal and chicken baby food to help her eat  she will hopefully love it. smear a small amount of avocado on top to make it gourmet.


okay i will try that! thank you!


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## QueenBea (Feb 12, 2015)

lilspaz68 said:


> Did the vet give you steroids? If not she will continue to regress, hopefully slowly.If you get the video I might be able to help you better determine if it's PT or inner ear, as I will recognize the subtler behaviors you may not, as I have seen over 100 PT rats. Clubbing of paws, how she turns, loss of edge behavior, a general malaise and dullness, etc. Inner ear you are looking for brighter more aware eyes, although they might be filled with pain, more adept and quicker movements and headtilt


The vet gave us amoxicillin, which i don't think will work for PT.

Here's a video of her (sorry about it going blurry sometimes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fCn_s5P3vA

She has porphyrin on her inner arms as well.


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## QueenBea (Feb 12, 2015)

Paul_Julian said:


> Hopefully it's not PT , but a video is must, just like lilspaz68 said.
> 
> Adding my two cents.
> Acting fast is most of important in fighting with PT, and a video or even pics of how your rat sits and how holds food is a must.
> ...


here is a video of her:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fCn_s5P3vA


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## Paul_Julian (Oct 31, 2011)

It looks like PT for me  , although I dont have as big experience as Lilspaz have. Notice how your rattie does the yoga pose in 0:18 , and also on the beginning of the video. This is not normal behaviour. She looks more focused though, which is good thing. She grabs that food and tries to eat it, but falls back just after stretching paws to the front, and she also sits "on her butt" with hind legs straight . Rats with inner infection ussually tilts head, shakes the head , and often might spin in circle.
If I were you I would try meds for PT asap, taking advantage that she's able to eat. 

I dont know how expensive is cabergoline ( pills or liquid) in your country. It works much better than Bromocryptine, although in liguid form (Galastop) it's nearly impossible to feed rat with it ( it's oily and the taste is awful). But bromocryptine will do too if cabergoline is too expensive.

My rats with PT passed after few months but the passing wasnt related with PT. They were old, Igor - from video- was 2.4 y old and he passed after about 6 months, enhoying last time of being old.

Holding thumbs for your Clementine!


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## Paul_Julian (Oct 31, 2011)

I forgot to add - bromocryptine has to be taken every day ( cabergoline -> every 3 days). And of course we give those meds lifelong.


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## QueenBea (Feb 12, 2015)

Paul_Julian said:


> It looks like PT for me  , although I dont have as big experience as Lilspaz have. Notice how your rattie does the yoga pose in 0:18 , and also on the beginning of the video. This is not normal behaviour. She looks more focused though, which is good thing. She grabs that food and tries to eat it, but falls back just after stretching paws to the front, and she also sits "on her butt" with hind legs straight . Rats with inner infection ussually tilts head, shakes the head , and often might spin in circle.
> If I were you I would try meds for PT asap, taking advantage that she's able to eat.
> 
> I dont know how expensive is cabergoline ( pills or liquid) in your country. It works much better than Bromocryptine, although in liguid form (Galastop) it's nearly impossible to feed rat with it ( it's oily and the taste is awful). But bromocryptine will do too if cabergoline is too expensive.
> ...


Yeah she definitely does that pose a lot when trying to eat. I'm glad she can still eat... We will be trying to get the meds asap... Thank you for your help.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

QueenBea said:


> The vet gave us amoxicillin, which i don't think will work for PT.Here's a video of her (sorry about it going blurry sometimes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fCn_s5P3vAShe has porphyrin on her inner arms as well.


Definitely PT...very classic failure of the "cheerio" test.You can see the same movements here with Calla on my article
http://lilspazrats.wikispaces.com/Health+Care-+Pituitary+Tumour+-+Failing+the+Cheerio+Test You've gotten good advice, hopefully your vet gives you the prescription ASAP.


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