# Is this a good cage?



## Robyn (Apr 19, 2016)

A mom-to-be of two female rats in the next month or so, doing some prep and totally spazzing over whether my planned equipment will be good enough for the animals I'm looking forward to welcoming for the family. I've read a few guides on good rat cage sizes. While originally planning my setup I'd had a different cage (that said "for rats" right on the tin but was only 14" high) but fortunately I did some extra research. At the moment, this is the cage that has my attention. The size seems all right as far as I know, and I checked a couple of cage size calculators and they said that it would be an all right size for two female rats. But I figured that I'd rely on human expertise.

http://www.petsmart.com/small-pet/c...-catid-600011?var_id=36-32618&_t=pfm=category

One question that I have is about the wooden parts. If this cage is good otherwise, is it safe to spray the wood shelves down with some kind of deodorizer? Will the rats nibble at it and make themselves sick if I do? Also, what kind of bedding is best? I read that I should stay away from printed paper and pine/cedar beddings. Does corn cob bedding work the best? That's what I've read so far but I've only done maybe 5-6 solid hours of research so far.


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## InuLing (Dec 26, 2015)

I would stay away from the wood. It absorbs urine like you wouldn't believe and they can chew their way out. Most anyone on here would reccomend the critter nation, myself included. It is really a great cage. As for substrates I personally use fleece but you have to use it properly for it to work. Paper litters are good just be careful as some are very dusty like Carefresh. Don't use Carefresh. Stay away from softwoods because they can irritate rats' lungs but I have heard of people using aspen to great success as well.


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## Robyn (Apr 19, 2016)

InuLing said:


> I would stay away from the wood. It absorbs urine like you wouldn't believe and they can chew their way out. Most anyone on here would reccomend the critter nation, myself included. It is really a great cage. As for substrates I personally use fleece but you have to use it properly for it to work. Paper litters are good just be careful as some are very dusty like Carefresh. Don't use Carefresh. Stay away from softwoods because they can irritate rats' lungs but I have heard of people using aspen to great success as well.


I had looked at the Critter Nation cage, but unfortunately it's out of my price range. In the future I would be more than happy to upgrade, but with my current income I really can't spend more than about $100. What if I replaced the wood with something else? My dad's in the construction business so we could likely find something fitting if we had the knowledge and materials.

I'll be sure to stay away from Carefresh, thanks for the warning. I've read a lot about fleece bedding but I think paper litters will work better. Since this is my first time with rats, I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible. Of course there is never any such thing as 'simple' when you're dealing with live animals. There is a local vet that I'm going to talk to about bedding suggestions if it turns out they have experience with small animals.

Thank you for posting!


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## InuLing (Dec 26, 2015)

Have you tried looking for a used cage? You'd be surprised how cheap they can get. As for modifying, bird cages work surprisingly well (again if you can get a good one used for cheap) but the big thing is you really want solid metal if possible so they can't chew out and no larger than 1/2" bar spacing. You also don't want metal bars or mesh for the floor of the cage because it can cause bumblefoot. I recently modified an old dog cage I had laying around to work with rats and it took some time to do but I managed. I had to line the entire thing with 1/2" hardware cloth so they wouldn't be able to get out. (This cage can hold 15 so needless to say it's huge.)



If they're babies the rat starter kit would work but it is a starter kit and you would have to purchase a larger cage before long. General rule of thumb is 2 cubic feet of space per rat. If you're not sure how many rats a cage can hold just google rat cage calculator. They'll be able to tell you.


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## artgecko (Nov 26, 2013)

Check CL, Ebay, and local ads for used cages..you can often find them cheap. Also check out the petco "Rat Manor".. It is a decent size for 2 females and is made of all metal and has the correct bar spacing. I used to have it for 3 juvie does before I upgraded. You can sometimes find it on sale for $50 or less also.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

You can buy a critter nation using PayPal Credit on petsupplies:http://www.petsupplies.com/Search.aspx?query=Single critter nation

You have to repay the whole amount within 6 months to get NO interest. There is a $10 shipping I believe, but it will come down to $114 (with shipping)/6 month=$19/month


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I actually try and avoid making larger purchases from big box stores that have been known to mistreat small animals... Yes, if I need something, especially something cheap and essential I'll shop there. But if you are going to make a larger investment consider making your purchase from someone you can feel good about supporting. Other than that, I'm not big on wood or plastic in rat cages... but a lot depends on the space you have, how much time your rats will be in it and your budget. New used and home made, there are a lot of options out there. 

Also look through some of the older threads if your dad is in construction, some of our members have built incredible cages very inexpensively.... Most were very functional, some were works of art. For the most part, someone with skills and power tools could wump one up in under a day from left over construction debris and a few odds and ends from Home Depot.


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## schnebbles (Nov 11, 2015)

I just ordered this one off of Jet.com - first order gets 15% off and my total with tax was 76. I have a rat manor and it seems to small (narrow). I don't think my rats will chew this one, they don't seem to be big chewers, I have stuff for them to chew. I'm so anxious to have it. I think the wood would stink really bad after a while.


https://jet.com/product/Kaytee-My-F...ulti-Colored/0c135f28f6c84954ad2e2fef1f414efd


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## Robyn (Apr 19, 2016)

I have checked eBay, Craigslist, and a few local online sale/exchange groups. The cheapest I've found so far is around $150, or over an hour's drive away. So it doesn't seem like those will be viable options, although I still have about a month, so I'll keep checking. That petsupplies link looks pretty promising, though, so I'll definitely keep an eye on that. I'll also take a look at the DIY threads, because that might end up better for my budget. Thanks everyone!


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## artgecko (Nov 26, 2013)

schnebbles - I had that cage used...A couple pointers. It is a lot bigger than the RM and I loved it for that reason. It is pretty weak-jointed though, so I would reinforce the sides with zip ties (where they connect). Also, the door holders / locks tend to get loose over time, so I would use binder clips to help keep them shut (just in case a rat tries to push the door open). The last modification I did to mine was to remove all the plastic levels and replace with hammocks and climbing ropes. The plastic levels have urine troughs on the sides and got nasty fast..the rats also don't need the ramps so those can be removed to give them more exercise. 

To prevent mine from chewing the plastic base, I sprayed it with no-bite solution and it seemed to deter them pretty well, but I still checked it daily for signs of chewing. 

I used to keep 3 males in that cage without issues.. It was large enough for a couple flat hammocks, a tube, and a honeycomb hammock also, so they had plenty of room.


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## Robyn (Apr 19, 2016)

artgecko, would they climb the cage walls rather than using the ramps? They wouldn't hurt themselves if they fell off one of the ledges, would they?

What kind of no-bite solution did you use? Is it homemade or store bought?


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## schnebbles (Nov 11, 2015)

thanks artgecko!


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## artgecko (Nov 26, 2013)

Glad I could help you out! 
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I bought the no-bite stuff at petsmart...I think it is bitter apple spray. It worked for mine, but other people have said that their rats LIKED it, so you will have to watch and see how they react. I only sprayed the horizontal "lip" where the wire meets the bin. I never saw them try to chew it. 

They can and will climb the bars and it is good exercise for them. I have neve seen one fall from a shelf, but I did have a rat that I highly suspect fell in my DCN... he was fine in the morning and when I came home from work, he was immobile on the floor barely able to move (no external signs of injury) but he cried in pain whenever touched... I suspect he fell and broke his spine (had to be euthanized) but a DCN is a lot taller than that cage.. I never had any injure themselves in the kaytee cage. 

I took the ledges out because they were a pain to clean..they peed on them constantly and the trough around the ledge would collect urin. They were also hard to remove to wash, so it was too much trouble. I replaced them with a corner hammock, a flat hammock, and a honey comb hammock and space pod.. The rats could climb the sides to get to their hammocks and pod, so there weren't any issues and I feel the space was used better. I also had 2 rope perches in there for them to climb on and they used them a lot. 

I think for the price, that cage is a good amount of space and it is open (if you remove the shelves) so you can arrange things pretty well. I had to remove the cage top to put a litter pan in (I ended up not using it after a while it took up too much floor space). and also had to do the same when I put a large silent spinner wheel in.. The top can be kinda tricky to seat back into the base, so you will want to check that too...It has locking "wings" that you have to fold down into holes in the base and they snap shut. 

And again, I would definitely invest in binder clips to secure the doors and zip ties for the sides. I did get mine off Ebay, but it was new-in-box, so I don't know if it got banged up or something, but it was a little shaky and the doors were never tight enough fitting for me. I still use it as an isolation cage / maternity cage sometimes so it has held up well though (about 3 years now with 2 years of heavy use by 3 bucks).


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## schnebbles (Nov 11, 2015)

I have a rope perch in my RM and a big green hammock pod (not plastic,it's material) to sleep in which they've nearly destroyed. I'll probably do away with the shelves sooner or later. I am so anxious to get it. I think the width will be much better and more climbing space. I do like the way the RM doors latch, they seem secure. I made a big rabbit cage that's all zip tied together. I love that cage! It's so roomy.


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## Kchilson02 (Jan 20, 2016)

I have the all living things rat starter kit from petsmart it's great


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## Robyn (Apr 19, 2016)

Some rats liked it? Interesting. Guess there's no set method that works for everyone.

Aw, poor guy. That's one of the things I was worried about, because we had a gerbil fall off the top of her cage once and hurt herself pretty badly. Good to know the average cage shouldn't be a problem. Would you suggest taking out the ramps and letting the rats climb the walls and ropes to get to different levels? Would that be too hard for them or would it be a way for them to keep themselves busy rambling around the cage? Sounds like the ledges definitely need to go if they're going to be a problem like that.

We have some binder clips, I think. What about alligator or battery clips, or spring clamps? There are literally hundreds of those in the garage, all metal.


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## artgecko (Nov 26, 2013)

Whatever clip you find that works.. the binder clips I mentioned are the smallest size ones aka "bulldog" clips (black rectangular with the metal ends). Bolt snaps could also work. You will only need 2 clips, 1 per door, so that shouldn't be too hard to find. 

My rats could easily climb to get around... the rope went across the cage diagonally and from top to bottom to give them more access to the middle of the cage where they couldn't climb the sides. In a cage 18" wide, you can get some "long" hammocks made that will stretch the width of the cage, this way, it will replace the shelf and be easier to wash / take out. I had hammocks at 2-3 different levels in the cage so they had many options to climb.


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## artgecko (Nov 26, 2013)

Whatever clip you find that works.. the binder clips I mentioned are the smallest size ones aka "bulldog" clips (black rectangular with the metal ends).  Bolt snaps could also work. You will only need 2 clips, 1 per door, so that shouldn't be too hard to find.

My rats could easily climb to get around... the rope went across the cage diagonally and from top to bottom to give them more access to the middle of the cage where they couldn't climb the sides. In a cage 18" wide, you can get some "long" hammocks made that will stretch the width of the cage, this way, it will replace the shelf and be easier to wash / take out. I had hammocks at 2-3 different levels in the cage so they had many options to climb. 

Here is a pic of the cage setup I used to have. It does not show the whole bottom of the cage though, but it will show you hammock placement and the bottom door has a binder clip on it.


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## Robyn (Apr 19, 2016)

That looks like such a cool setup! And the rat's adorable. I'd prefer to have a hammock/rope system rather than ramps, so I'm glad to see that that would work well for my girls.


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## artgecko (Nov 26, 2013)

Thanks! I actually made that hammock set myself.. It was a little rough since it was the first one I did (had to re-sew it a few times) but I like the colors / pattern. 

You have to fidget to get the spacing right on the hammocks... notice all the c rings holding up the hammocks... and the shower curtain rings holding the ones at the top. it took me a while to find what worked. but IMO it is better to customize it the way you want it than to go with the shelves. With the system above, only one hammock got soiled a lot (the long one on the bottom right) so I could remove and change it out as often as I needed without worrying about the others. This setup didn't leave room for a litter box (see giant wheel top in the pic) but I used loose bedding so it wasn't a big deal. 

The rat in the pic is Howard, a fully grown agouti buck (and a huge one at that) to give you an idea of scale. 
The rope you see near the bottom going across the cage is a series of rope dog toys and plastic shower curtain rings I bought at the dollar store.. You can also find baskets there and plastic trays that can be hung as shelves.


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## jamekn (Apr 9, 2016)

I feel like rats would chew up all that wood so quickly. You may be left shelfless before you know it!


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## Robyn (Apr 19, 2016)

jamekn said:


> I feel like rats would chew up all that wood so quickly. You may be left shelfless before you know it!


That's why I was asking about the hammocks and ropes. Besides the wood, it seems like a pretty good cage, and it's a lot cheaper than the others on the market of similar size. And I like the ideas of the climbing ropes better than the ramps, as long as there's no difference to the rats.


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## schnebbles (Nov 11, 2015)

artgecko - I can't see your pic! I agree it's rather poorly made, thanks to zipties i got it together. I love the space!


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## artgecko (Nov 26, 2013)

Weird... It shows up when I go to that post. Are you looking at the forums on a portable device? That might explain it.


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## schnebbles (Nov 11, 2015)

it's there today! how odd. I was on my laptop both times. It was not there last night! I saw a box, but no image. I'm going to try and make some stuff today, thanks!!


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## Katrianah (Apr 13, 2016)

schnebbles/artgecko: I currently have that cage too (the kaytee one that schnebbles posted earlier in the thread). It's wired to the top of my bigger cage. I find it's stirdy enough for sitting up there, but yeah, the clips that hold it together can come apart easily when moving it around a lot. If you plan to do a lot of carrying with it I recommend the zip ties. But once it's together and in place, its pretty secure. I don't consider this a poorly made design so much as a sacrifice for the convenience of having a large cage that you can easily unassemble to transport.

Door issue... you definitely need to double secure the doors. You don't need clips though. If you just push the latch through, and hook it over the next bar up, it secures nice and solid. Essentially you can't just push it closed. You need to make sure to hook it closed on the next bar up or the rats can open it.

[edit] added a picture of what I meant by securing the clip all the way through.


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## artgecko (Nov 26, 2013)

Katrianah- That is a good idea for the doors... I never thought of doing that. Good photo too, thanks.


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