# Agressive Grooming



## crustpunk (Jan 15, 2008)

Alright, I have one rat Maru-dashi and Ive had her since she was a baby. Then I got another female from my friend because I didn't want maru to be lonely.They were about the same size and same age and seemed to get a long....some scuffles but not too bad. But I noticed the other rat would squeak when Maru was cleaning it. I got rid of the other rat after a few weeks but the squeaking while grooming continued the whole time I had it. Today I was in the pet store and did another snake food rescue and bought a tiny baby rat. About 1 1/2 inch long...about the size of a large mouse. I introduced it to maru and she seemed excited, but again with the squeaking, and with a rat this small this is a problem. Does anyone know whats up with maru...cause it kinda sucks because I don't really have a "rat" cage, I've just got a few tables with boxes and old shirts thats dedicated to maru. I've stuck the baby in my empty tarantula cage for when I'm not around to break it up, but I really don't want to have to leave it in there till it's big enough to fight back. Any suggestions? Is it happy squeaks (don't really think so I saw scabs on the first rat) Is my rat messed up in the head (possible) or is it a dominance thing? Thanks and sorry this is so long.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

Why did you get rid of the second rat? That seems an odd way to put it.


If she's not drawing blood, they're fine. If she is you may have to reintroduce them.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

something in my gut tells me to just walk away from this post


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## beanieboo-rattles (Jan 3, 2008)

Confusing...But yes i back what forensic said


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Sounds like dominance and power grooming. The groomee eeps and squeaks and says "OK you're the boss, I get it". A really frightened rat would run away or freeze with their eyes bugged out, but if all they do is eep and squeak while being groomed thats fine. 

scabs sound like mites and you should probably get them treated.

This new baby is one and half inchces long? Thats freakin young! Are its eyes open? If its under 3 weeks you should be syringe feeding every couple of hours. Baby soy formula is best.

Ummm...got rid of?


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## beanieboo-rattles (Jan 3, 2008)

I have to ask for more info about your rattie situation...


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## crustpunk (Jan 15, 2008)

The second rat was poorly behaved, I know that sounds stupid, but I just didn't get along with its personality. I found it a good home though, I just didn't want to deal with it. The new baby is one and a half without tail, its eyes are open and its got fur, walks around, and everything its just REALLY small. This power grooming is something I'm going to look into...also any home remedies for mites, cause I'm not gonna take a two dollar rat to the vet when I don't have enough money to take myself to the doctors. And after reading this site somewhat I'm going to the store to get an actual rat cage today (meh) to separate them....but it seems kind of redundant to quarantine the new one when they've already met.

*oh and the doctor thing, (cause I see a whole lot of b*tching, doesn't mean they don't get any treatment, maru got really sick when I first got her with sezures, not being able to breathe, and rolling over and over, and I cured her.....but luckily I had some antibiotics and prednisone (sic) in my cabnet. the only lasting problem is that her heads crooked cause I didn't start the meds soon enough....but it dosent slow her down


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Do I dare ask what abs you gave her from your cupboard and did you know that you have to wean them off the prednisone carefully? Where did you get your dosages from? Self-medicating is a scary thing. I took in a rescue who had been overdosed with ivermectin and she ended up having strokes and dying. 

this tiny baby...are you sure its a rat? I have never heard of a baby that small.

Btw, your comment about taking a $2 rat to the vet is gonna get you a lot of flaming. Highly inappropriate for a pet rat forum, where most of us do the best we can (including vet care) for our rats.

I will continue on this thread for the sake of your rats.

Does your baby look like this?
17 day old babies (eyes just open, sprawly bodies, big snub-nosed heads)









19 days old (body filling out, eyes much wider)









3 weeks old, ham-rats...cute and fuzzy









24 days old, much more like mini-rats









4 weeks...filled out little baby rats


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## crustpunk (Jan 15, 2008)

I'm sure its a rat, I've had mice before and its defiantly not a mouse. I think I misjudged how big she is.Looking again she seems about two inches long, but still very small. I'd say she's a little over 19 days old. I'll put a picture up.

I didn't mean to offend with the 2$ pet comment, its just that my whole family is struggling and pet rats are not very high up on the priorities list. I didn't mean to put a price on a pet, you can't do that. 

As for the self medicating. I found a website that diagnosed her, looked at the doses by body weight and then did a whole bunch of division and math to find the right amount for her body weight, I don't remember the antibiotics, but I know it was on the list of what rats were given and my dog had taken it before. Did some more math for her body weight, kept it up for about three weeks (don't quite remember). The 24 hours after getting her first dose she was noticeably better, within 2-3 days she was able to walk around. Self medicating was my only option, either that or letting her starve to death because she couldn't stop rolling around long enough to eat or drink. Self medicating was pretty much the only option at that time.

What do these mites look like, and if she does have them how do you get rid of them?

P.S. I'm just trying to learn how to take better care of my animals. I really do appreciate the information. Didn't mean to piss anyone off.


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## nibblingfree (Jan 10, 2008)

I understand that, my family's going through hard times too, and I'm sympathetic. I work at petco and they pay the guy whose not afraid of the scorpion stingers and tarantula fangs considerably more than that other herp guy. I'm also the fish, cat, dog ,and SA guy too. I make sure everything's in order at my store so, don't worry. But the one I work at pays you considerably more if you're not afraid of the arachnids. I can actually afford the vet visits, cuz I make a lot more sells than the other herp guy, because I handle the dangerous stuff. :twisted: I have a few arachnids myself, but I love my ratties more.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

With your wee one, if she's that young, she needs a lot of supplemetning since they are not usually weaned until 4 weeks plus.

See if you can pick up some baby cereal, that will be easy for tiny jaws and new tummies. If you can get powdered baby formula from somewhere that would be great too.

See if you can find a tiny bowl for water because the wee one may not be strong enough for a waterbottle and could dehydrate.

You won't be able to see mites, they are usually microscopic and only the symptoms of them are present. scabs on shoulders, head, chin, cheeks are a classic symptom, scratching and furloss. You should pick up some Ivermectin oral paste (tack or feed stores) and you can _carefully_ dose your adult girl.


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## crustpunk (Jan 15, 2008)

Thanks, I'll run out to the grocery store in a while....I also heard that eggs were good for giving them protein. Is this true and is it alright for one so young? How do you go about giving them powdered baby formula? Mix it in with their food or water? Give it to them in a syringe (needle cut off) like medicine?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

I mixed mine with water in the baby cereal 

Eggs are good, start off with small bits and see what your new baby is capable of eating...you might be able to crush up lab blocks and see if she will eat that as well.

is the baby definitely a female?

Girl at 24 days...very small space between anus and genitals









Boy, much bigger gap (where the testicles develop)









Your wee one is too young to go in with an adult yet.


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## crustpunk (Jan 15, 2008)

I set up a separate cage for the baby, I'm debating whether or not to get a second baby as a companion to the one I have until it gets old enough to go in with the adult. But I'm not sure and probably won't, because taking care of two little ones would probably just make it harder. Around what age do you think I should start introducing them?

Sorry this keeps on going on....but every time you give a suggestion I have ten more questions 

Oh and its (according to the pictures) definitely a girl.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

How old is your adult girl? Lets start there.

I do not mind it going on and on, since you are asking valid questions.


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## crustpunk (Jan 15, 2008)

a year and three months


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Ahh she will probably love baby companions, but once she goes then you will need to get another companion for the now-baby. If your cage/budget will support 3 rats then get a 2nd baby. Can you get another one of this wee girl's littermates? If you only got her a short time ago, you can probably get away with no quarantine and just pop them back together.


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## crustpunk (Jan 15, 2008)

Yea, I'm pretty sure the ones at the pet store are part of her litter (not certain though), I'll try and grab one....so as soon as the quarantine is over I can start introducing them? Or would my baby still be too young?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

crustpunk said:


> Yea, I'm pretty sure the ones at the pet store are part of her litter (not certain though), I'll try and grab one....so as soon as the quarantine is over I can start introducing them? Or would my baby still be too young?


I would say the earliest to intro would be 5 weeks.

You won't need to quarantine if its within a week of getting your other baby.


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## crustpunk (Jan 15, 2008)

I was more thinking about quarantine from the adult.

Thanks for all the info I think I got it. Though you might hear from me again.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

crustpunk said:


> I was more thinking about quarantine from the adult.
> 
> Thanks for all the info I think I got it. Though you might hear from me again.


np...PM if you need to.


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