# Getting Rocco neutered



## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

I am hoping to get Rocco fixed in a few weeks. I am not concerned about the procedure, but how he will act after. I like him how he is. I know people often get their rats "fixed" when they are having aggression issues. Rocco doesn't have those, he is actually pretty submissive. Anymore submissive and my girls might very well hurt him. So what will he be like after his neuter?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Remus didn't change nor his two sons who were only neutered to live with females.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

If the cost isn't prohibitive, you would be better off spaying the girls to avoid mammary tumors later on in life.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

I don't have a lot of money at the moment. I let someone borrow a good chunk of money, and my car broke down. So I am in a tight situation money wise. But thank you for the advice. My girls are 18 months and really have slowed down. I don't know how they would handle being spayed. Has anyone spayed an older rat? So some rats personalities change and others don't? That makes sense. I am just super worried about it.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

if a rat lacks self confidence (not necessarily a submissive rat) then neutering can actually make them worse. It can really knock there confidence and make them more uncertain. With time and support you can build them back up again in most cases. Unless you know the rat very well it can be hard to tell and even if you do you can make mistakes. i will say though that boys that lack self confidence do a lot better with a hareem of ladies.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Isamurat said:


> if a rat lacks self confidence (not necessarily a submissive rat) then neutering can actually make them worse. It can really knock there confidence and make them more uncertain. With time and support you can build them back up again in most cases. Unless you know the rat very well it can be hard to tell and even if you do you can make mistakes. i will say though that boys that lack self confidence do a lot better with a hareem of ladies.


 that is exactly what I am worried about. How can I help build his confidence with them?


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

i don't suppose getting him a neutered make friend to live for a few months with is possible. Then you can give him a few months to grow into himself abd a friend to be introed with which will make it easier on him

how old is he?


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## Blackthorn (May 14, 2007)

He'll be fine. Neutering doesn't change personality itself, it more levels the playing field when hormones get out of control. Neutered boys are very happy to live with girlies, generally. Just remember to keep him separate from the ladies for at least 2-3 weeks post-neuter to ensure infertility.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

I don't really know how old he is. I am guessing he was about 4-5 weeks when I got him. So maybe 6 or 7 weeks? I don't really want a 4th rat. Seems too much for me personally. I can see about fostering a male to be his friend.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Is there anything else I can do with him to help him?


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

" i will say though that boys that lack self confidence do a lot better with a hareem of ladies." I misread this part sorry. So you think he will be fine even with his confidence getting knocked down a bit more? The girls are extremely close and bossy. I just don't want him to get hurt. I blow off most their fights as just putting him in his place.


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## Dan203 (Jul 10, 2014)

He's little, things will change when he gets older and out weighs them by a few hundred grams.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Sorry i meant that they do often do better with girls than boys even with bossy ladies because of the difference in how heirachy works in girls vs boys.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

gotchea said:


> I don't really know how old he is. I am guessing he was about 4-5 weeks when I got him. So maybe 6 or 7 weeks? I don't really want a 4th rat. Seems too much for me personally. I can see about fostering a male to be his friend.


he's only a baby meaning at that age his hormones aren't influencing his behaviour. However he's very young to be castrated abd is harsh to keep him alone for so long. If you can get him a friend abd leave neutering to around 6 months old that would be ideal. 4 months if you really need to. It would be better to get a similar aged friend which would be hard to foster. i would try and put his meds first especially as you've got him because i guess you want a mixed sex group for your own benefit


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Oh I have a question! Why is waiting until he is 6 month best? I thought I was suppose to neuter him before his hormones kick in? I don't care for mixed sex. He was just the one I bonded with, and I read neutered boys are better for bossy girls. So it's why I settled on a boy. I knew my vet did neutering at a young age because of Wilder. I didn't think Rocco would be alone for so long.


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## mimsy (Jun 8, 2014)

males can be fertile at 5 weeks, so hormones are already kicking in by then. They are going through a very heavy growth spurt however up to about 6 months. Adding a surgery recovery is probably stressful on the body which is already working very hard. Hormone changes most likely occur rather heavily between 5 weeks and 6 months as well. 

I would think there would be pro's and cons to early neutering. I haven't looked at rats in particular, but as a guess-pro's would be less testosterone type aggression. Probably less urine marking. Unable to reproduce (therefore getting him in with the girls sooner). eliminates possible testicular cancer. Cons would be things like-possible weight gain issues, slight increase in bone issues, hormonal issues-thyroid, adrenal ect, urinary track issues.

Those are my logical guesses from my knowledge of ferrets. You probably just need weigh out the pro's and con's, and look into it more than my guesses of course.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Thank you. I'll try a google it.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Gotchea, If your girls are already 18 months old, and you are looking at them having an average life span of about 24 to 27 you are going to wind up with a very lonely neutered boy who may not grow to his full size because he was neutered too young to find a friend for sooner rather than later... (It's amazing how fast time flies for rats) Perhaps you would then need to consider another girl or neutered boy? And you will need to do intros... 

If he had a male friend, he should be set for a couple of years without the neuter... It's your call for sure, but think this through in terms of a plan... For example every year one rat fades out and dies and we replace one rat... Max is starting to get tumors at only 15 months so we might actually be replacing two rats this year, as we adopted Cloud in spring. In any case she's most likely going to be gone early next year. One girl growing up and one girl aging out is our particular treadmill... This would be a good time to plan how your mischief will evolve.

If you are planning to switch your mischief from girls to boys... well no real advise, but something to consider before you alter Rocco before he's fully grown.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Boy everything is so difficult with rats. I really dont want a fourth. I got him because of the situation. when my girls pass, I was going to get another(since he was going to get neutered girl or boy wouldnt matter) or foster. If I knew it was going to be a problem getting him fixed... Ugh Welp. I'll think about all this and see what my vet says and go from there.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Gotchea, 

Remember rats are supposed to be fun! Take some time and just play with them... Relax and everything will just come together in your mind and you will do the right thing... Its great to know your options and to get advise, but in the end don't let it all drive you into distress... I mean if you really over-thought every possibility of everything that could go wrong you never would have picked up Wilder from where you found him. 

You'll know the right thing to do when you relax and stop stressing over it...


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## Blackthorn (May 14, 2007)

How early you can neuter completely depends on your vet and their comfort. My vet will do them as early as 6 weeks old, and *prefers* to do them young as it is easier for him and easier on the rats in terms of recovery (and I fully agree based on my experiences). I often just wait til they are at least 150 grams (200 grams preferred with females). Some vets prefer to wait til 3 or 4 months, but there is no reason to wait longer than that.

There is no correlation in rats between being neutered young and not growing to their full size or having any other associated issues. Since rats are sexually mature so early, there's no real such thing as "early neutering" like pediatric spays in dogs and cats.


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## Blackthorn (May 14, 2007)

That said, I think it would be better for him to have a playmate around his age. A single baby can be annoying to older rats, with two they can keep the oldies company and play with each other/drive each other nuts.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Thanks ratdaddy  I felt pretty confident with Wilder, not so much with the brown rats. I kind of feel maybe I was a "wilder" person, not a rat person. That's also good to hear blackthorn, that makes me feel a little better if I do neuter him.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

i would neuter at 6 months or later because a boys unless therat hada problemthat meantneutering sonnetwas better becausehormones really help him grow and fill out. By neutering earlier you take away that natural pay off him before he can use it. Whilst neutering at any age does do that they do mossy of there growing in the first 6 months so that gives them a chance to form properly as well as develop mentally and physically before they go through a surgery. People do neuter earlier and the rats don't suffer per se but they also will miss out. 

Even if you go earlier i really think another baby would be really valuable


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Thank you. That does make sense as well. I appreciate everyone's help!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Oddly, yesterday I had an old friend stop by, she found a baby roof rat when she was a child. Her roof rat was a girl, and she told me she lived mostly out of the cage and ate with her family at the kitchen table. While she never trained her to be a shoulder rat, she sounded very much like Wilder. 

Roof rats are different from brown rats, and the chances are they you may be more of a black rat person... That and I do believe that Wilder was very special... so yes, you were definitely a "Wilder" person.

Maybe you can get your boy a black rat friend?


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## Blackthorn (May 14, 2007)

FWIW I have neutered rats at all ages and do not notice any signs of them missing out on anything or any differences in size, bone mass, etc. I have had litters of rats where some were neutered early and some much later and they did not seem to be any different from each other. Of course, that is just my experience and my observation, I have no scientific measures to utilize to prove it. I would not wait as long as six months, personally, because the surgery is easier on them younger imo. Older, fatter males definitely have a bit harder time with the surgery (especially with all that fat in their testicles the vet has to sort through) than youngsters.

In this situation I would get another boy rattie approx the same age as your current boy and then neuter them both when you and your vet feel comfortable doing so. Then you can have them join your girlies after the appropriate waiting time.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm still not entirely sure how you're winding up with a brown rat mischief... when I know your preference is for black rats... But any furry friend is better than no furry friends...

I'm just a little bit concerned about your comment that the vet that has no problems with neutering young rats is also the vet that had no problems with neutering Wilder, when he had never even operated on another animal like him before. I'm sure the procedure is very similar... but sometimes enthusiasm isn't always a good sign when choosing a surgeon.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Rat Daddy said:


> Oddly, yesterday I had an old friend stop by, she found a baby roof rat when she was a child. Her roof rat was a girl, and she told me she lived mostly out of the cage and ate with her family at the kitchen table. While she never trained her to be a shoulder rat, she sounded very much like Wilder. Roof rats are different from brown rats, and the chances are they you may be more of a black rat person... That and I do believe that Wilder was very special... so yes, you were definitely a "Wilder" person.Maybe you can get your boy a black rat friend?


 I'm in Southern California now so maybe I will stop by that breeder I pmed you about and see how his project is going. Maybe I'll steal one of his.


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## gotchea (May 4, 2013)

Yea I'm not too sure either. I wasn't sure if I liked brown rats or black rats, because I never really had a brown rat. So I tried brown rats. But I worded that vet comment wrong. This vet is the second or third rat vet. He didn't see wilder, I had an appointment with him but cancelled because I decided not to neuter him. I had called this vet when wilder was 2 months or so and he said he has done neutering a at all different ages, so he felt confident despite age. The vet that would neuter roof rats, wouldn't fix him yet because he was too little. Sorry that was my fault.


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