# The Decision to Permanently To Keep Rat Cageless?



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

There are a few people on here that I know don't keep their rats caged, so this question is for you and the decision leading to that place.

I recently rescued a rat from the humane society and finally got to bring her from the quarantine home to mine (it's a couple days early but that's how schedules work). In her current cage, she has figured out how to unlatch the door from inside and open it. Most people would be frustrated by this, but I am amazed. It's down to an art with her. Each time she has come out, she's gone back to the cage with a little coaxing but I imagine I can make it a command. I can rat-proof her cage and keep her locked in but I feel she is communicating her needs pretty well. When unable to latch the door she spends her time gnawing the bars.

So. I sorta wanted the opinion on if I should have her as a restricted permanent free-range and a bit of input on how to prepare for it.
My room is always kept locked up and secure for a myriad of reasons. Today she probably was out since I left for work until just now. We have one outlet, everything else is connected to an extension cord which can easily be unplugged. The floor has a rug that can be destroyed and is wood underneath. She goes to her cage with ease.
I have two other rat cages in my room, and cageless budgies. She hasn't bothered these once. Nor has she chewed up any of my books. She comes out from beneath things on-call. The only time I would need to lock her up is when the dogs were in, and while I slept (don't wanna roll on her). 
I love when she comes out, she gets active and explores. You can't tell she is a rat from a bad background. She is very sweet when she lets herself out. You can find other posts detailing my relationship with her.

If she got this option, however, she would be permanently be kept alone so she could have her cage open at all times (not comfortable letting the others do it).

This is probably really rambly I apologize.


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## Beckvin (Aug 7, 2013)

I am sorry not to have a lot of help on this but I too really love the idea of free range. I will say this much, be sure you have the rat verrrry well potty trained. Also rats will just like other animals we keep as pets, inevitably make " mistakes" and will destroy things. Just be ready that anything lost or messed up is okay with you. I'm with you on this wish I could try it but I have a dog and cat. They both tolerate the rattlets but I don't trust them in enough of a way that they wouldn't accidentally hurt them etc. 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I have seed-flinging butthole birds so I vacuum twice daily. So far I haven't found any poops out of the cage, and she was out maybe 4 hours. 

Right now she is very overweight too so I like this might help in that department. She can't access the majority of my stuff to destroy it because she is so fat...

I never really was comfortable wit the idea with my other rats because they just don't listen ever but she has been so good about it. I wouldn't try it if I had cats, but my dog (a RAT terrier lol) is old and lazy and doesn't seem to care. She was interested but Iris was smart enough to hide. (I walked in not knowing she was out)


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## Lovingly (Jun 24, 2013)

Domestic rats usual are not best to keep outside their cage permantley as they will chew up everything. Those that do keep their rats out 24/7 are usually half wild rats as they are careful about being noticed and try to go about not leaving any sights that they have been their. Domestic rats are not afraid of being noticed and will chew every and anything up.


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## JBird (May 23, 2013)

I would not keep her out of the cage semi/full time for the safety of her and your other pets. There are a lot of things that may not cross our minds that our rats can get stuck into, but mainly I would be concerned about your cage free budgies. They may not see the rat as a threat, and rats can be very harmful very quickly if they are startled or predatory. Budgies are definitely small enough to be considered a target: either prey or a threat to your rat and it would be unwise to leave them both loose in the same room unsupervised. Even if it *probably* isn't a problem, that is a risk I do not think is wise to take! Supervised free range, of course, is a different story. 

I would look into further enriching her cage to keep her interested, maybe give her more things to destroy. I found that once I attached a piece of chipboard to the sides of the cage (initially to prevent scattering of poos or food), my girls turned ALL of their attention away from destroying anything else, Dexter no longer gnawed on the cage bars, but they all just enjoyed tearing the chipboard thin strip by thin strip. It gave them something to destroy and feel accomplished about. Maybe if you give her the satisfaction of tearing something up and feeling like a bad girl she won't be so interested in gnawing bars.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Today was "new-toys-day" for my animals, and she showed no interest in them or any toy really. I rotate new toys into everyone's cage probably every two weeks, if not more often. Everyone else loved the toys (two other cages of rats), but Iris just likes to bury hers. She wasn't kept under great conditions so only just started using her perch and hammock. She's got maybe 3 hanging toys, and probably 5 different types of chews (wood, loofa, cardboard, corn, puff).

My budgies are all flighted and have acquainted themselves with the rats before by deciding to perch on the cage. They don't like the rats and fly away from them. I also, as a precaution, keep their food away from where the rats could access because I'd read it would kill them if the rats got into it. I'm not really worried about her chewing my stuff up as I said. She wouldn't be able to access the rest of the house, just my room. She would have no reason to hide herself, too. However, I will take these comments into consideration and ponder this issue much more and more deeply. Thank you.


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## Tasey (Aug 31, 2013)

I had a little girl who was permanently free-range. She would sleep in the top bunk of my bed with me, and otherwise was left to do her thing. A couple of points though: when I wasn't home, she was shut in my room to keep her safe and contained somewhat. Otherwise she was very very good about following me around, whether it was to watch movies or eat dinner or romp around in the screen room. Also, the entire house was wired with the outlets on the ceiling, so cords and electrical gadgets were always kept out of her reach. And yes, she chewed a bit. The only thing she really went to town on was my old bedspread, which had seen better days anyway. Otherwise she was better about not tearing things up than the dog was. She was a crazy amazing rat though. Rode on my shoulder everywhere--we'd hike down to the creek to fish and swim. She'd dive in and catch tadpoles and minnows. If you do let yours free range, observe her for as long as you can to make sure she won't be able to get into mischief. It is amazing how rats can teach you to keep the house clean!


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## Daniel (Jun 24, 2013)

Understandibly, landlords wouldn't be crazy over such a thing, and even those that do have freerange rats have problems with chewing of wiring/other things. Something else I was concerned with freerangers is that they may end up getting crushed by me or someone else without knowing.

IMO, it's too much of a risk, but if you think you can maintain her in that situation it might be worth a shot.


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## Laylicorn (Aug 14, 2013)

If you're worried about someone stepping on her you could put a sign on your door that says they can't come in because your rat is out.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I don't have people over, so the only one who comes into my room is me. I always knock anyway in case one of my birds is behind the door so they know I'm coming in.

The only thing in my room that I would worry about getting chewed is books -- the only things plugged in are my laptop if I'm home and my TV, which is easy to unplug. My light fixture is on the ceiling. So far the only one who goes for my books is my other adult girl, Caius. I don't ever let her free range without me because of it.

Luckily, my landlord is my weird Uncle so he's pretty cool with most things. I had originally wanted to convert the closet into a cage and he showed up the next day with supplies. I ended up not doing it because if they chewed through the wood they would be out in the house.

So far every time she has escaped she sticks on my bed or around her cage as far as I can tell.


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## Tasey (Aug 31, 2013)

My girl also was an escape artist. She would lift the doors, and when I would fix them with a latch she would sit there and chew the bars, kick her bedding around, and stick her little nose out through the bars so much it would be red and raw. The two boys I have now are very different. Scamper will just sit at his cage door and brux with his fur puffed out, shifting from one paw to the other. Skipper will climb his cage to the top of Scamper's cage (they're separated, hopefully temporarily) and sit there huffing through the bars. I don't think either of them would even try to explore my bedroom at this point. Gracie was a marvel though, she *never* wanted to be away from me. I miss that bond like crazy sometimes


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

This rat isn't exactly my heart-rat. I rescued her so our relationship at this point is awesome because I don't get bit. She isn't the type to cuddle or be pet. She had/has some issues that we're working past, but she is very sweet underneath.


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## Tasey (Aug 31, 2013)

Sometimes that's the best kind. Once her trust in you builds, she may totally open up. Gracie was picked out of the feeder bin because she had a degloved tail and when the employee saw it, remarked that she "wouldn't last long". I scooped her up immediately. She was very very fearful at first but turned around completely. How old is your girl?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

The shelter simply said "about a year". She's a bit overweight (more than a bit...) so it's hard to guess.


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## Tasey (Aug 31, 2013)

Nodnod. If she has been abused or neglected it might be hard to win her trust. is she scared of you or is she just ambivalent?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

She isn't scared of me, but she doesn't want a cuddle or pet relationship. She let's me pick her up but I have to approach her differently. We don't play but she will climb on me.


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## Tasey (Aug 31, 2013)

Nodnod. Well I hope she comes around!


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## Poisoned (Nov 17, 2012)

I'm sorry , I may have misread it. But are you saying your birds are free-range in your room too? I'd be very wary of letting the birds and rats interact. Rats WILL kill other animals and eat them. 

Other than that, do you have any floor vets or radiators in the wall (usually they have a cover, with an opening at the bottom)? Anything at all like that? 

I did have a rat free-ranging for a few weeks at least because he could get out of every cage, and it was disgusting, I got an escape-proof cage as soon as I could. I didn't even know he was going potty out in the room because he mostly did it under a dresser and ruined the floor. 

Not to mention all it takes is one little mistake and she's dead. Something falling over, you accidentally stepping on her, rolling over on her if she's on the bed, and so on. It i just not worth it to me. Supervised play time out of the cages and lots of enriching things in their cages, with new things swapped in often, is all they really need. Mine also have a secure outdoor enclosure that I put them in on nice days for a change of scenery and smells, fresh air, etc.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

The only way the birds and Iris would interact would be them flying down to see her. She is older and heavier so she is not very mobile. The birds are flighted and kept up off the ground; I have dogs that are in the room while I am so I have to keep cages higher up. The birds don't tend to frequent the ground area as I've put considerable time and money making a nice off-ground playground for them. If they were to get bothered, Iris is in no way fast enough to get them before they could fly off.

All of my vents are covered tightly; when my other rat gave birth she kept trying to escape so I had to pinkie-proof my room. The carpet is getting torn up after I move because we found out there are wood floors underneath and because the previous tenant smoked and they are permanently damaged.

My room is pretty bare, it has a shelf of VHSs that holds the TV, and a large bookshelf she cannot access. Both cannot be climbed up or climbed under (as tested by my escape artist girl). Other than the cages and my bed, there is nothing else. The real time she would be out free ranging would be when I was out of my room, at which time the dogs are also out of the room.
I've tried toys, hides, chews, etc. to entertain her -- like I said, about every two weeks they get new ones. She gets time out of the cage, but otherwise is unentertained. She is a lone rat currently, so you can imagine how that is. I don't want to buy her a new cage as I was going to try introducing her to the rest of my rats in a bit to see if she could reside with them UNLESS I decided to keep her caged minimally. I don't know if she can be intro'd to the other rats or how that will go as she is older and larger, and the majority of the rats in the other cage are the young of the older adults (who are still younger and smaller than her). The kits are still small despite being 7wks.


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## watts300 (Aug 3, 2013)

It looks like now you're trying to find some one to talk you out of it. It seems like you've already convinced yourself. 




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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

No, not quite. Have had her locked up all day. I'm sorry if it came off that way, but if I agreed with everything the conversation would stop so I wouldn't get varying opinions.


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## Poisoned (Nov 17, 2012)

If it works for you it does, but don't assume because she's slow that she can't harm your birds. Even if they get along - and it goes for other species too- they're animals and will act as such. I wouldn't do it. I had a female escape and kill/eat my mouse and my nearly 20yo very loved Leopard Gecko, and then go back in her cage. Some rat groups do not even allow you to post pictures of rats showing other species in the photo so as to not give others any ideas. YOu could easily just get her a larger, escape-proof cage and deck it out with all kinds of fun stuff. Personally, I wouldn't let a rat loose with other species. But you do what you're comfortable with.


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## TexasRatties (Jun 2, 2013)

I would say try to introduce her to the other rats and see how that goes before trying permanent cage free rat. Honestly I wouldn't do it but that is me. She could chew through the wall, harm the birds, and many other things. She might be lonely so introducing her to your other rats or getting her a cage mate would be best. Its your decision though I would think all the worst case scenarios and see how to go about fixing them so they don't happen.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I am hoping that she'll introduce well, but I am worried because she got stressed and began chattering when I tried with the adults. Plus, with her age and size I worry that she might injure the younger girls. Ideally she would live with them, because I don't want her to be alone. It's big and designed to get the rats moving, so it would be wonderful for her.

But if she has to be alone, I would rather she not be locked in a cage all day bored out of her mind. Every toy, chew, and treat I try flops with her. Some even scare her. At best, she enjoys burying half the toys but maybe she is just trying to get them away from her. It took a month for her to begin trusting the hammock in her cage and only happened with me coaxing and encouraging her, so it is very hard to simultaneously entertain her and keep her comfortable.


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## TexasRatties (Jun 2, 2013)

I.would just keep trying introducing her slowly I would use free range permanently as a last resort again that is me.


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