# Big bully brother rat



## worldvsunicorn (Jan 15, 2014)

I have two male rats, almost 4 months old, and brothers from the same litter.
When we got them at 7 weeks they were really sweet and affectionate. But we had to go away for a week so we left them with a rat baby sitter (a friend of mine with 3 full grown males). They all got along just fine so we thought it wasn't a problem.
But something must have changed because now one brother has become increasingly dominate over the other - even though they're in a massive cage. They're both still very affectionate to people, but poor little brother has been barbered til his shoulders are all naked and he's acting stressed and erratic AND he's getting sick. I'm going to go out and get a new cage today to separate them.

We took them to the vet and he suggested getting the big brother desexed and getting 3rd male to balance out the hierarchy of the cage.
I want to do something asap. What do you suggest??

(I'm a first time rat owner, but I've ran a guineapig rescue program a few years ago.)


I posted this same question in the 'Say Hello' section but I didn't receive any reply so I've moved it to here.

Please, and thank you


----------



## toke (Aug 28, 2012)

Although neutering is known to help, do not jump to surgery right away because there are other less invasive methods. When my boy was being aggressive I got a few great tips from people here. The first was to tire them out so they did not want to pester each other. I made them work for their meals and gave them lots of extra free time to run. Another tip was to spend a lot of time with the aggressor. By strengthening the bond with him, you will get more respect in the sense when you tell him to cut it out and leave his brother alone, he should listen. These both did the trick! If it is getting to an extreme point, definitely separate them and reintroduce as if they were strangers. Males will test each other, and yours are at that age where they will get into little squabbles. Personally I would not just get a third rat until you have the aggressive rat under control because it may not stop the behavior, just give him a new target. Read up a lot of rat aggression, there is _ton_ of information out there! If after going through every possible route to get good behavior things are only getting worse, then look into neutering- but make that your last option. I had a bully rat and through increased physical and mental stimulation, and him just growing up a little bit, I have not seen him reacting to any of the other boys unless provoked (my 3 month old guys like to pick on him now that they are getting bigger). If he is not being violently aggressive (biting and drawing blood often) there is still hope, you just have to find the root of the problem and what he needs to settle down! Good luck


----------



## worldvsunicorn (Jan 15, 2014)

Thank you, I definitely want to leave surgery as a last resort.
It's hard to explain, the bullying doesn't really seem to be aggressive. More just... over-affection? Captain is extremely active and playful and just loves everyone and is the one we take out of the cage the most. Even introducing him to larger, strange males just lead to him instantly jumping all over them wanting to play.

Cheeto is quieter, sweeter and a bit shy. There's been no fighting or biting. Captain just holds Cheeto down and grooms him until all his fur falls off.
Even when they play, Captain will always let Cheeto pin him down in almost every game - but Cheeto hasn't displayed any other dominant aspects.

I'm hoping a third male to play with will give poor Cheeto a break. Also throwing out all their old toys and getting a bunch of new ones.


----------



## lindzmichelle (Jan 2, 2014)

I have a similar situation to you. I have two 6 month old boys and they are constantly going at it. like you say not in an aggressive hair puffed, blood drawing way but there is squeaking and some hair loss. I'm not sure if Cheeto is instigating with Captain? In my case the one loosing the hair is more often then not asking for it and I think the other one just doesn't realize how rough he is playing. I've just accepted it and come to terms with the fact that boys will be boys and if things get a little too rowdy I just separate them. Good luck!


----------



## Anamchara (Jan 19, 2021)

I have an elder rat (Harry, 2.5) and 2 younger rats (Monet and Vincent both 3 months) in a very large cage together. We integrated them fine with Harry, and they have been getting along with minor scuffles over food (Harry is a hoarder and the boys just want to eat lol). The issue is that they're both making it really hard for Monet to eat. Vincent has started to literally steal the food out of Monet's mouth, even if he has his own food. I've started to try separating Monet each day so he can get some food because he's noticeably smaller than Vincent weight wise now, but I'm not sure it's the best course based on what some of you have said. Any advice?


----------



## lfraser06 (Aug 5, 2020)

worldvsunicorn said:


> I have two male rats, almost 4 months old, and brothers from the same litter.
> When we got them at 7 weeks they were really sweet and affectionate. But we had to go away for a week so we left them with a rat baby sitter (a friend of mine with 3 full grown males). They all got along just fine so we thought it wasn't a problem.
> But something must have changed because now one brother has become increasingly dominate over the other - even though they're in a massive cage. They're both still very affectionate to people, but poor little brother has been barbered til his shoulders are all naked and he's acting stressed and erratic AND he's getting sick. I'm going to go out and get a new cage today to separate them.
> 
> ...


This could be a manifestation of the stress of being sent to a temporary home and then back again. Basically, in 4 short months, they've been in 3 different environments. It could also be a behavior they picked up from the other (3 grown males) rats they were with.

I would suggest trying more attention. One thing you can try, is when you notice the one brother "over-grooming" the other, interrupt them. Go over and pet them. Distract the groomer from what he's doing. And if he'll follow you hand away from his brother - offer him a treat. So he associates "stopping" the grooming with something positive.

Also, separation and re-introduction isn't a bad idea. At the very least, it will give the one rat some breathing room to heal and rest. You can keep the cages close to (side by side or top & bottom) each other so they can still smell each other and communicate.


----------

