# Help! My rat attacked me!



## BethC (Apr 6, 2014)

I was sitting on the floor and I moved my hand to the ground to lean. He then lashed out at my hand. At first I thought it was play fight but then he bit hard and I saw the blood. I tried to pull my hand away but he latched onto my thumb. 

The thumb bled a lot, which I understand, fingers bleed easy. My hand is covered in scratches and bites. 

I don't know what happened, and I don't know what to do. He is in his cage now, a little angry because my boyfriend got to him, and handled him roughly. His brother is still out, I don't want to put them together. 

Please, I don't understand how my sweet boy became so vicious. Please help me. 


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

How old is he? I'm guessing around 4-5 months?


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## BethC (Apr 6, 2014)

About 5 months. But his brother is around the same age, he isn't aggressive to me. 


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## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

Hmmm, how long have you had your rats? Are they neutered? Has he ever behaved this way before? Did you perhaps startle him and he lashed out in fear and surprise?


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## BethC (Apr 6, 2014)

I had them since March. And no, he has never behaved this way. Afteri got him to let go and managed to clot the bleeding, I sat down to get them to come to me to go back in the cage and he went after my hands again. 

I just got a new cage. And I think he might have mites. Could either of those be it? 


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

BethC said:


> About 5 months. But his brother is around the same age, he isn't aggressive to me.
> 
> 
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Yup... that's what I thought. It's most likely hormonal. It doesn't affect all rats.

Someone more experience in behavior (Rat Daddy?) can try to help, but there is also the rare case that neutering is the only solution. Again, that is rare.


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## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

IDK what is going on there. But then again, I have only ever owned girls.


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## BethC (Apr 6, 2014)

I have to say, my thumb really hurts. Still bleeding slightly. 

Should I keep my boys separated for the night? 


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## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

I don't think the rats need be seperated as the problem was not with them getting along.


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## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

BTW, if you develop any flu like symptoms over the next week or so, see your doctor and mention the rat bite.


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## BethC (Apr 6, 2014)

But I'm afraid of him attacking the other. 


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## BethC (Apr 6, 2014)

Oh thank you for the heads up on the flu thing. 


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

These kinds of things are hard to comment on because perfectly friendly well adjusted rats don't flip out and bite their owners... with the rare exception of a brain tumor and then they usually kill their roommates first. The other also rare exception is if the rat has been seriously injured or otherwise abused. Either way a vet visit might be a good idea.

Hormonal aggression does occur at the age you mention, but again it's super rare that it occurs in a vacuum. Basically a rat starts challenging it's owner and cage mate for status before it outright attacks, and yes it can be dangerous to humans and fellow rats alike while alpha confused...

I realize that folks like to shorthand their posts, but we really need more information as to the behavior and events leading up to the attack. Rats can get alpha confused and aggressive pretty quickly, but still an attentive owner that handles their rats every day would notice some changes in their behavior. 

If you are dealing with alpha confusion or aggression, for some reason your rat doesn't see you as his parent or alpha so he's trying to take the job from you... he's attacking you on purpose to get you to submit to his authority. Obviously a rat can't run your household so in the end he can't win and you can't have a rat pushing you around at the threat of bloodshed.

Hormonal aggression is usually lined with behavioral aggression, with the exception of brain tumors or other physiological brain malfunction. A rat detects weakness in his human alpha, when he reaches the right age, he starts pushing his humans and cagemates around... As he gets away with it the confusion starts and through a wonderful biological mechanism alpha rats hormones surge to make them faster and stronger and more capable of being a leader. In nature an alpha rat would lead his pack through dangers and protect the weak from the strong and become the parent to his pack, in captivity an alpha rat is all revved up with nowhere to go... no one to lead, no dangers to overcome and no place to burn his super strength and energy level... so he lashes out. It's really rather sad. 

Thankfully nature isn't that cruel. When an alpha rat gets dethroned by a superior alpha, his hormones return to normal and he can resume his role as a regular pack member happily and peacefully.

Extreme immersion is a method for dethroning an alpha confused rat... it's not pretty and you've got to take charge very much like another alpha rat would... It involves combat and is best done with you wearing several layers of clothes thick gloves and oven mitts. You can read more in my sticky thread on immersion or read through posts from people who have done it. It's ugly but very effective.

Sometimes neutering can also knock down the hormone levels to make a rat easier to deal with and the trauma of the surgery helps kick the wind out of the problem rat too.

Either option isn't going to help a rat with a brain tumor or serious mental defect. Both work on rats that are basically normal but have misinterpreted their environment and gone alpha aggressive. But as I began with, there are almost always signs that things are going wrong before the actual first attack.

Maybe if you can give us a little more information we can be of more help.


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## BethC (Apr 6, 2014)

Ok I put some thought into this. Actually it kept me up all night thinking about it. I also took my boy out to see his reaction to how I behave. I think this might be why he attacked me.

I suppose he has always been a little aggressive. He would not bite though, he would just put his teeth down slightly on my hand if I was digging him out of places he didn't belong. Though a few days ago some how I managed to scrap his tail a bit while trying to get him out of under the couch. He did bite me pretty hard, and I had to cut the couch open to get him out, because I knew I must have hurt him and I didn't want to hurt him any more. 
His tail is ok, just a scrap, that I cleaned with some diluted neosporan, then kept him from licking it long enough for it to get his scrap clean, then cleaned off the rest. He seemed to be fine after he had a treat and went on his merry way.

I am afraid I might of traumatized him in some way. I thought he would be ok because his brother bites his tail during their wrestling. 

Is it possible he does not trust my hands anymore. Everything else about me he is fine with, my lap, my shoulder. Even my hands in my lap doesn't bother him. But when I am using them it is different. Did I make my rat not trust me any more? 

Also, he is becoming more aggressive to his cage mate when I have them out. I am worries he might hurt him. 






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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

First, I've seen several accidental rat injuries, and an injured rat might indeed become afraid of you and run away, but it doesn't get angry and attack you.

Some rats attack when cornered out of fear but mostly rats attack out of aggression, this also is not to be confused with anger as we would think of it. More tough love.

Many years ago, I saw my first case of alpha aggression and it was with a large dog. First of all the dog walked itself to the park and back, which was actually nice, but the owner had to leave the house and come home at pretty much the same time every day or risk his dog's wrath... He brought home a girlfriend and the dog treed her on the kitchen counter and would not let her down. The dog insisted on being fed when it wanted to be fed and had all but completely taken over control of the household. It even refused to let it's owner into the house when he came home late one night. And yes it would bite, not terribly badly, but enough to prove it's point. We were at work when the fellow told us about his dog and that he had to get home before it bit him, and another co-worker who had been an Army dog trainer explained that the do had gone alpha. Simply put, it was in charge of the household now. As long as the human followed the dog's lead and did what the dog expected and wanted he was a cherished pack member, when the human stepped out of line, the dog used force to reinforce it's status and rules.... It sounded silly at the time, but after thinking about it... it makes a lot of sense. Dominant dog, submissive owner and an upside down relationship was born. 

So as long as you and your other rats submit to your alpha confused rat, things won't necessarily be bad... but the idea that a rat can run your household effectively is pretty much insane... We've owned some super smart rats that were very independent but none were capable of being alpha in a mixed human and rat household.

At some point your rat went from play fighting to testing his limits, you sound like a nice permissive rat owner and you let him get away with it, now he's making his power grab. Sure he's happy to sit in your lap when he wants to, but as soon as you try to control the action you are challenging his authority and you are likely to get bitten. As his cage mate is very likely bonded to you and not him, he's going to start beating his cage mate into submission too.

This really should not be seen as something wrong with the rat, but rather what rats are supposed to do... Male rats are programmed to challenge authority and become alphas at around 4 - 5 months old.

Now in a human household that doesn't usually happen because humans are really big and strong and smart, but in those cases where the human parents are excessively nice and understanding or neglectful, or away a lot, one of the males is going to make his bid for alpha status.

If you were a real big strong alpha rat and a subordinate upstart challenged you, you would stomp him back into his place double quick. That would end the power grab and his hormones would return to normal and everybody would be happy again. In fact when an alpha rat stomps a subordinate he usually grooms his belly to show there are no hard feelings and to thank the defeated challenger for submitting. The fight might be vicious, but the surrender is sweet with everybody making up and being friends again.

When the problem isn't out of hand some humans have had success at restoring discipline during regular play sessions, but usually they get bitten several times during the process. Extreme immersion contains the combat and allows the human to take charge more safely. But either way you have to be the alpha human, and that requires meeting aggression with overwhelming force. And lastly there's neutering, which reduces the hormones and you let the vet traumatize your rat for you to put him off his game.

Before immersion, there were two common schools of thought when it came to rat socialization, trust training and PRO. Both were useful with shy and fearful rats that had been mistreated before they came to your house. Trust training basically helped a rat get to know you as you showed it you were not a threat... it usually took a long time. PRO Positive Reinforcement Only is the ******* step child of behavior modification and a distant cousin of trust training, it assumes that rats are stupid animals and you can reward a rat into behaving correctly. It's a mechanical process and doesn't consider the rat as a participant in his trainingm rather the rat is just the subject. Behavior modification worked because it was clinical and often brutal, by taking negative reinforcement out of the equation it becomes a politically correct flop.

So to be clear... you are not trying to train your rat to trust you, he already trusts you so much he's attacking you. And there's noting about aggressive biting behavior you can or want to reward. Trying to reward bad behavior or trying to be more passive will only make things worse!

Immersion theory addresses your problem as a normal consequence of your rat getting confused about the social order in your home and his status in your pack. Before you can be the loving and caring parent your rats need and want, you have to reassert your status as leader or alpha. So it's time to change your mindset. I'm a very permissive parent, my 8 year old daughter stays up all night to see the sunrise on weekends, she generally sets her own agenda and she's an honor student. But she knows there are limits. I set my limits early and by the time my daughter was 2, we were good... My wife tried to play "nice mom" and about two years ago, when she realized my daughter was paying her no attention at all, I think she just lost it... There was screaming and crying and more unpleasantness than I will detail here, which I strategically stayed out of, but now my wife is the disciplinarian and she sets the rules and gets things done with my daughter. Sure it was ugly, but a 5 year old can't run a household and tell mom what to do. And there's happiness and harmony, most of the time at least for my daughter and my daughter loves my wife as much or more than ever. Love and respect are not mutually exclusive.

So here you are, you are a nice rat parent, you want to be sweet and loving and kind, you want to be loved and trusted, but until your rat respects you that isn't going to happen. This very well is going to get ugly and you are going to do things you most likely don't want to. Several people who have done extreme immersion say they were crying at some point, so it can be hard on you emotionally, and people that don't armor up report getting bitten, some several times, but in the end social order is reestablished and everyone is happy.

Neutering can be less traumatic on the rat owner, but without followup through proper socialization it doesn't necessarily work. Surgery alone doesn't fix behavioral problems.

I'm most likely the most permissive rat parent here, one of my rats is currently evicted from her cage and living in the store room. But she's relatively house safe and very competent and she's earned her place in the household. She's as independent as any rat is ever likely to get without being feral. She follows the house rules and has a better than best living arrangement because of it. So for me it's hard to write a post like this without feeling at least somewhat cruel. But you aren't punishing your rat and you aren't actually injuring him. You are just taking back control of your family. Yes, some of my friends do say that our rats run our household, but our rats are actually just very independent and competent which means I can be the pack leader without actually having to enforce the rules.

Read at least the first part of the immersion thread and check out some threads similar to yours where people have fixed their biting rats through extreme immersion or spin off tough love variants... Since I introduced immersion theory, there have been several spin off variations but essentially they all work to fix biting rats.... some variants take longer and at least one person preferred being bitten to wearing gloves... In any event there is the orthodox approach I posted originally and enough tweaks detailed here on rat forum that you should be able to find one that works for you and your rat. 

Remember, it gets better after it gets ugly. And try to be safe, you don't get extra points for bleeding more profusely. For anyone reading along, extreme immersion should always be done by an adult, and the risks you take are entirely your own. This is the only rat socialization method that comes with a warning label and a liability disclaimer.

Best luck.


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## Antiquatemyheart (Mar 25, 2014)

I've recently had one of my boys Darth start to challenge me and I've noticed him being very dominate over his brothers! He has not started biting, thank God but, I nipped it in the bud with Rat Daddy's advice. It really works well and as soon as I took charge as the alpha, the other boys seem happier and Darth is way calmer now. 

I have also had to do immersion on my older girl because of aggression and I haven't had a problem since.


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## BethC (Apr 6, 2014)

I took a bunch of socks over my hand and set off his biting trigger. He went after me all puffed up, but I kept pushing him trying to roll him over, as soon as I got him on his back and started at the tummy he ran away un puffed up. I had to coax him out but he came out eventually. He is now a little afraid of my sock glove, and ever time he see me pick it up he stops misbehaving. No bites or nips since. Is this good? 


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Rats are put to sleep for biting... Just about anything is better than biting... That's rule number 1. 

Although you're not trying to instill fear, you have to take charge again... Once he learns that he can't bite you anymore you will have plenty of time to be friends. Also keep in mind you just changed the paradigm of his life and universe. To some degree he's retreating to rethink his place in his society, so it might not actually be fear you are seeing, it's more than likely confusion.

So yes, you are doing very well. Reward his good behavior with affection and treats, but keep your socks close at hand for now... No back sliding, biting is NEVER OK. 

Always keep in mind immersion theory is based on rats being smart and understanding you. This means you can communicate and he can understand you. Just like you are starting to understand him. So the changes he's making are real. Once he understands you are his leader and parent he will start treating you appropriately again and then you can be the loving and caring rat parent you really want to be. 

Also, keep in mind to some degree he's still high on hormones that are going to take a little while to decrease in his system. Unlike learning that takes place in rats almost instantly, hormones take a while to return to normal... He's likely to be a little tweaky for a week or two.

So.... great job, keep up the good work.


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