# clear this up please



## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

Two of my fellow rat buddies can't agree on whos right and i'm staying out of it because my opinion is really differen't. They want to know if a shower is safe for your rats as long as the waters a nice temp and you don't step on them. Will the water give them a possible ear infection? (both their rats are water lovers lol really cute!) Help would be great!


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Uh, that would terrify a rat. Don't do it. Even if the rat liked water, showering with them isn't a good idea at all. 

If your rat's a little dirty/got into something, give him/her a warm bath.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Or you can even wipe them down with a damp cloth, but most dirty rats will clean themselves. 

I only bath oldies or rats that have gotten into something, or sickies with a damp cloth. You are chancing them inhaling some water, and they could develop aspiration pneumonia.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

some one on this forum told me as me and roob hadnt bonded properly said to take a shower with him luckly i havent as i was scared of being shredded lol the best way i find is to run a shallow bath say 1inch or 1 and a half inchs and just let the rats paddle in that if they like water if not i get a washing up bowl fill it with warm water and put a drop of lavender oil or vanilla oil in it i sit next to the bowl with a towle on my knee and scoop water in my hand and strock the rats with my wet hand its a lot less stressful this way!


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

showers are fine. i take mine in with me and it doesn't bother them. i find it even helps in bonding. it was theorized that the steam helps calm them just like children and stressed adult humans. i don't have the temperature scalding but it is warm. i don't hold their heads under the water either. we just share the space. if their head doesn't get wet then there is no chance of ear infection or phnueomonia. and even getting a few splashes of water at the bottom of the tub its unlikly any harm would come of it. its not like the droplets are all that strong by the time they reach the bottom of the tub. i've never had a problem with a rat getting sick by sharing a shower with me and i've found they prefer the showers with me when bathing them then a bath on their own


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

No, showers are not fine. Steam treatment should happen by turning the shower on, steaming up the bathroom, and sitting with your rat in there (not the shower, just the room). For a rat who's having breathing issues, being in a shower with water pouring on you, is not a good thing. There's no way to accurately tell if there's no water getting into your rat's ears while you're in the shower with them, so ear infections and myco flareups could happen easily.

Fallinstar's method is much, MUCH nicer for the rat.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

Night- where did you get the information on the shower problems? i don't take rats with breathing issues for baths or showers as i believe the stress of the water isn't something they need to go through. but a healthy rat is fine, they get a bit freaked out in the beginning but the calm down fast enough and can then enjoy their time there. its no worse then giving them a bath on their own. its not like i have the rat on my shoulder getting doused in water as i bathe. we just share the space. there is plenty of room in the tub for the rat walk away from getting doused in water.


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## hjkaga (Dec 27, 2006)

twitch - why would you even take them in the shower if they get freaked out, even if its just in the beginning. That is stress that is not needed. If you want to bond with them then just spend time with them. (outside of the shower) Their is no way that spending time with them in the shower helps you bond better then spending time with them anywhere else. Please stop putting your rats though that stress. As others have stated, you cant be sure that water isnt getting into their ears and that they are not inhaling it too. you just never know. and its better to be safe then sorry.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i take my rats out of the cage too and in the beginning they're a bit freaked out but they calm down and then enjoy their time out. and after a time they learn that being out of the cage with me is fine and they want to come out. going in the shower is no different in that respect and that was what i was trying to say in the previous post. as for inhaling water i still say its not more risk then giving them a normal bath on their own. if i could see where this information on ear infections and aspiration pnuemonia is coming from then i might be more willing to accept it. i just want to know where the source of this information is coming from.


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## hjkaga (Dec 27, 2006)

when you give them a regular bath you can hold their head out of the water and be careful to not get water in their face....in a shower you can't help but get water in their face......see my point.

like i said Better Safe Then Sorry!!!!!!!


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Thank you, hjkaga, you're completely right.


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

I, personally, wouldn't take a shower with them.

Mainly because I've been stressed upon by many owners that even in a 1-inch deep bath you should hold thier head above so as not to get water in their faces or on their head. 

I never really knew why but it was re-affirmed in many books(including Debbi Ducommon's book) that getting water in their ears is bad, no matter if their healthy or not. When I take regular baths(which is rare for me) I don't get water in my ears, but in showers I can't help but do so. I have to dribble a little Swimmer's Ear in after each shower.


And the heat may be relaxing, but the steam could be harmful. Ratty nostrils and lungs are tiny, it may be helpful for humans but not for rats. I imagine the water droplets in steam would build up in a ratty nose pretty quickly, causing the ratty to breathe it in(or sneeze it out, both are possible).

I don't reccomend showers for rats based on that information alone, if I had found proof of the mentioned health problems I'd definitely say against it. But I haven't looked up anything yet...which I suggest you do, Twitch, if you really want to know if the problems do occur.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

Thank you all, however why do we have to bash each others ideas and opinions? wasn't this site made so we could share with each other?? some people like dogs and some don't some rats like water and some don't. Why attack Twitchy just because she has differen't ideas to whats in books? We shouldn't attack each other, if you don't agree post why YOU do people are all differen't just like our sweet little ratties!!  If our rats saw us being so rude to each other they would be ashamed.


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

Nazarath said:


> Thank you all, however why do we have to bash each others ideas and opinions? wasn't this site made so we could share with each other?? some people like dogs and some don't some rats like water and some don't. Why attack Twitchy just because she has differen't ideas to whats in books? We shouldn't attack each other, if you don't agree post why YOU do people are all differen't just like our sweet little ratties!!  If our rats saw us being so rude to each other they would be ashamed.


I must apologize if I came off as rude, I was hoping I wouldn't..xD

I was just stating my side, the uneducated-but-listening side, really. Didn't know why but I followed it after I found many reputable people saying no to it.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Because her idea/opinion can make rats sick/get ear infections.


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## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

Night said:


> Because her idea/opinion can make rats sick/get ear infections.


That does not, in any way, justify being snobby.

I'll ask, as many others I'm sure will agree, that you only give *suggestions* not pushy behavior and snide remarks. 

After giving your opinion in a positive, well mannered way, if someone wants to mess up, let them, you did what you could.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

I wasn't justifying my snobby-ness. I was simply stating why I disagreed with her. I probably skimmed and Nazarath was actually asking why I was rude, not why I disagreed


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

Obviously her rats haven't gotten sick? (hope this never happens) If they get sick then Twitch will know not to shower with them again? We shouldn't act like we know everything, because in fact we don't. I don't know that all of you really have rats just like all of you don't know if i really have rats. Stating an opinion is more than ok, just why do we have to be so aggresive towards each other??  

p.s. Vixie I didn't really mean my comment for you, You posted that you had actual facts and explained yourself, You didn't bash anyones fact in. I didn't mean you were rude.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

no one has directed me to research done though i have asked for it. i will look for myself if there is any proof for or against the harms of showers and/or stream. until i find proof one way or the other i will refrain from commenting further as i have no empirical research to back up my opinion or the opinion of those who disagree with me. if anyone else finds an article on the topic in the mean time please post a link as i will be very pleased to read it. i will do the same for all information i find.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

So if I smoke cigarettes and don't get cancer, until I get cancer I should just keep smoking? That's basically what you're implying.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

I don't know what that has to do with the price of eggs, but if a rat is caught in a rain storm and has no where to shelter, does it put cotton balls in it's ears to avoid an infection? what about all the rats that swim in the sewers? You seem to know everything can you answer me that??


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

that is not what i'm implying at all. i'm saying i have yet to find any research done to verify or disprove what either of us are saying. i am merely going of personal experience. when i asked for you to cite where you found this information that part was ignored. i will be looking for research on this topic on my own. when i find articles i will post a link here for others to read and come to decisions about on there. and i find your analogy weak. there is much research readily available about cancer being caused by smoking. i have yet to find the same ammount (in fact any) research done on the harms of showers as of yet. however i will continue to look.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

I posted on the Rats Rule forum about it (the one I mentioned/linked you to before), so I'll let you know what they say on the issue.

Nazarath - wild rats are exposed to a many great things, thus why they die so young. So, mentioning that they swim through sewers doesn't mean it's okay for them. Simply because they are able to do it, doesn't mean it's healthy/won't leave them with some sort of ailment.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

another forum will largely just have more opinions, though they may be able to find empirical research so i'm looking forward reading their posts. what i'm looking for is the EMPIRICAL research. where there have been studies on the effects of showers or at least something closely similar as the information could be closely correlated. however i will continue my own research finding on this issue in the mean time.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Why would there have been full-fledged studies on rats in showers? It's mindless.


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## Kamia3 (Feb 26, 2007)

Night said:


> Why would there have been full-fledged studies on rats in showers? It's mindless.


why must you put others down??


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

well of course there wouldn't be that in particular but there might be something close enough that the information can be related. and for that matter if you say that there can be no firm evidence then there can be no firm evidence to support your claims either. so why do you say what you say? where do you get your information? is it personal experience? i will continue to look for relivent information on this that is based on other then personal experience.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

I'm not putting anyone down. Just the thought of people actually conducting studies on the effect of showers on rats is silly, and there isn't any.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

So, you want information that's relevant, nothing based on personal experience. Those two statements are contradictory. The only thing you CAN go by is personal experience. For instance, when you defend your claims, you cite your own experiences.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

It's silly in YOUR opinion, How do you think people learned that steam and what not isn't good for rats (if thats true i honestly wouldn't know). Someone would have had to figure it out some how.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

It's silly in YOUR opinion, How do you think people learned that steam and what not isn't good for rats (if thats true i honestly wouldn't know). Someone would have had to figure it out some how.


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

you are a very very frustrating person Night. please read my posts throughly before posting a reply to them. and at the very least i'm looking for information to back my position, all you seem to want to do is say that i'm being foolish and out and out irresponsbile by showering with my rats. 

i also don't appreciate you saying that i will continue to do something that you have no knowledge of me doing so on other forums. you could have made your position clear without saying that i was going to continue to do something that you do not know if i was going to do. it makes me look irresponsbile and ignorant of others opinions. i am looking up which one of us is right or at least closest to being right. please give me a fair shake.
http://www.goosemoose.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,118/forum,rat/topic,4017988.0


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

It's not necessarily incorrect. Why would you stop doing something that you so strongly agree with/back up? That doesn't make sense.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

gawd Nazarath i think you have started summit here lol bless ya bet u didnt expect a 3 page reply how did the vage hunting go btw?


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

Night said:


> It's not necessarily incorrect. Why would you stop doing something that you so strongly agree with/back up? That doesn't make sense.


but its not competely CORRECT either. you do not know what i will do and its unfair to assume just so you can make yourself sound better and more right. frankly i'm not sure what i plan on doing with the shjowering aspect. you obviously very firmly believe that i am doing nothing but harm when showing with my rats. you can only vaguely qoute personal experience as you have yet to even claim that you have tried this yourself. you haven't even offered articles on ear infections or pnuemonia. at least i'm looking for this relivant information. as neither of us can put the other to rest by basing solely on personal experience i am looking for some information based on some studies instead. 

is there a particular reason you enjoy attacking nearly everyone of my posts? i say showering is fine. you say i'm wrong. i say fine, show me where you get your information, you show me to another rat forum with other people and opinions, which is no different from this forum. i say that's not enough so say we should look for more solid information and you say i'm being foolish. this doesn't seem like you want to find anything out, you just want to be right, or you enjoy attacking me. neither of which i quite understand.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

True, I don't feel like looking for information, because I find this topic flippant and rather absurd. And of course I've never tried showering with my rats - the idea is insane to me, and I know my rats would be terrified. Even if I had a rat that loved water, I wouldn't allow them much time in it since I'd be worried about ear infections from built-up yeast since there really is no way to dry out their ears, which can easily cause otitis externa. 

I don't see how I'm attacking you everytime you make a post. Sans this showering topic, what else have I scolded you on?


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

if you find this topic 'flippant and rather absurd' then y do u keep posting on it?!


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Because arguments amuse me


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

and you prove my point that you aren't reading my posts thoroughly. i was referring to the showering posts. i even listed each incidence is breif summary and offered an alternative to "enjoying". its obvious you don't really care one way or the other and only want to be right. when i offer a way for us to find out exactly who would be you suddenly call the topic flippant. which leads me to believe all you want is to be.. well i don't know exactly, there are many different things you seem to be trying to be and i don't want to drag them all through here. please note that from here on out i shall ignore all your posts. you do not want to admit that there is a possbility that you could be wrong, you don't want to do the research to back your own claims and when i try you call it flippant. fine. there is no reason i need to consider your information in any aspect if you are not willing to back it up. i'm done with you.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

I am reading your replies thoroughly, it's not my fault that you are contradictory. You mentioned your POSTS not your REPLIES. Two different things in the world of forums. Posts are full topics, where as replies are just that - replies to posts.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

twitch said:


> and you prove my point that you aren't reading my posts thoroughly. i was referring to the showering posts. i even listed each incidence is breif summary and offered an alternative to "enjoying". its obvious you don't really care one way or the other and only want to be right. when i offer a way for us to find out exactly who would be you suddenly call the topic flippant. which leads me to believe all you want is to be.. well i don't know exactly, there are many different things you seem to be trying to be and i don't want to drag them all through here. please note that from here on out i shall ignore all your posts. you do not want to admit that there is a possbility that you could be wrong, you don't want to do the research to back your own claims and when i try you call it flippant. fine. there is no reason i need to consider your information in any aspect if you are not willing to back it up. i'm done with you.


I second Twitch's statement


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

The only reason I call the topic flippant is because the fact behind it is so simple to understand.

You get water in your ear, you get an ear infection. Same goes with rats.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

Nazarath said:


> twitch said:
> 
> 
> > and you prove my point that you aren't reading my posts thoroughly. i was referring to the showering posts. i even listed each incidence is breif summary and offered an alternative to "enjoying". its obvious you don't really care one way or the other and only want to be right. when i offer a way for us to find out exactly who would be you suddenly call the topic flippant. which leads me to believe all you want is to be.. well i don't know exactly, there are many different things you seem to be trying to be and i don't want to drag them all through here. please note that from here on out i shall ignore all your posts. you do not want to admit that there is a possbility that you could be wrong, you don't want to do the research to back your own claims and when i try you call it flippant. fine. there is no reason i need to consider your information in any aspect if you are not willing to back it up. i'm done with you.
> ...





i 3rd u loose!


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Oh snap.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

Night said:


> Because arguments amuse me



well this was a friendly forum if you like arguments please go and argue some other place i feel your not welcome here


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Simply because I like arguing doesn't mean I start them for no reason or something. I continued arguing with Twitch because I felt I was right. Just like she continued arguing with me.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

well please argue some place else this is a happy place!


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Forums are here for discussion. Arguments are going to happen from time to time. There's no way to get around it.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

there is its called you leaving plz


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## hjkaga (Dec 27, 2006)

Night - i think everyone agrees here that you are not welcome in our forum. I read the post on Rats Rule that you made and you got yelled at on there for posting dirty laundry. You obviously just like to start trouble. You may not agree with what others say but that doesn't mean you have to keep arguing about it. If you are go great then why don't you be the bigger person and just drop the subject. Agree to disagree. You want to sit and argue but you refuse to try to find any proof of what you are saying. You are lazy and are just being ignorant.

So like others have said - Please Leave!


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## STUgirl55 (Feb 6, 2007)

I'm going to have to agree with them. This is for helpful insight, that you can backup, not someone who's arguing for argument's sake and being arrogant and insulting. So kindly go away.


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## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

Night said:


> There's no way to get around it.


Yes, there is. If you can't say anything nice or helpful, say nothing at all. Bite your tongue. There are a lot of people here of different ages and backgrounds. You may not understand their logic or agree with their thoughts and beliefs, but you don't have to make an argument or boss them around because you think you know better. Live and let live.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

I must agree with Donnak, i don't want to pick or jump down on anyone but this is a friendly site.


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

I would like to add my 2 cents.

I've only read that the steam of showers are good for rats lungs while they are in pain, or dealing with pneumonia or other breathing problems. This has helped my Joshu calm down when he was in pain, and it also helps to keep a humidifier on as well as dry air doesn't help hurt lungs at all.

So I would imagine it couldn't HURT if all I see is info on it HELPING. As for water in the eyes/ears I do not know but I would imagine that they don't get much in a shower especially if they are kept out of the water burst. It would have to hit a fairly small target to get in the ear than would have to go even further. Thus it would take something more akin to dunking your rats to trap the water in the ear enough to worry about an ear infection. Water in eyes as long as it's a low enough temperature is alright. Their body runs at higher temps then humans so I doubt any temperature we can handle would be harmful to them.

But yeah, not taking a shower with my rat still but I think Twitch has had luck with it, so I would say he/she should keep doing it! But my shower makes it impossible for me not to get too much water on them or to get them trapped in too high of water as it clogs easily and is small. Her/his shower might be huge.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

Night said:


> You get water in your ear, you get an ear infection. Same goes with rats.


Actually, our immune systems aren't that bad, or else I would have had an ear infection from my bath this morning. It's water from places like hot tubs and the like that are the problem. I doubt Twitch's water is 106 F, used by multiple sweaty old men, and chlorinated. 

Night, your posts come across as very agressive, and as though no one knows what they're talking about. I'm not suprised Twitch has gotten offended, no one likes to worry about being attacked when they reply with their opinion. It would have been easy enough for you to say that you don't like the idea and state why without insinuating that anyone who does is putting their rats in harms way.


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## camel24j (Feb 27, 2007)

ok i dont know much about rats but i do think this kinda aplys to this. i have a newfoundland puppy they were bred for water work and love to swim but here is the thing these dogs becuse of being wet with long hair and floppy ears get hot spot and ear infections all the time now this is the thing the dogs love the water so much do you stop them form doing something they love becuse it can cause peroblems. or think about this kids love to climb trees would you stop your kids from doing this just becuse they could get hurt. ok this is just my opion but if they have not had problems with being in the shower and they like it i dont see why it would be bad as long as if they do get sick you take them to the vets and get it taken care of. this and i will stress is just my opinon cant spell sorry.


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## Nazarath (Feb 20, 2007)

Thought i would give this topic a few weeks to cool off, Twich has a very good post going on this subject with more Rescources. I will say that none of us have tryed showers with our rats. We has to give baths because of them getting into our coco milk and dumping it everywhere lol. Didn't get their heads wet just bubbled up their bodies and dryed em .


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## Jingles (Feb 2, 2008)

Night said:


> Oh snap.




ROTFL you made my night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## portkeytonowhere (Dec 24, 2007)

Well I was looking for information to back up twitch because I think as long as she is blocking most of the spray and its not too hott then they should be fine. I did find a website that mentioned showering instead of bathing you have to scroll down on it a bit but here's the link http://www.ratzfood.com.au/?page=123
I know its not solid evidence but its not unheard of to shower with a rat. I used to shower with my terrier/lab all the time she absolutely loved it. Although I don't think my rattie would care for a shower he absolutely despises baths lol but he was better this past time.


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