# Separating mama rat from cage mate?



## Lightning

I am positive the rat we got from the pet store is pregnant, she's extremely big in the stomach now. Her cage mate is not. They are not litter mates, they came from completely different places (one from pet store, one from a friend) Do I need to separate them? My other rat almost died and is now thankfully recovering greatly and I'd hate for her to be alone now but if I have to then I will.


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## RattieLover1331

My friend had two rats as well, with on pregnant.
She seperated them when she could start seeing that she really was pregnant.


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## Lightning

RattieLover1331 said:


> My friend had two rats as well, with on pregnant.
> She seperated them when she could start seeing that she really was pregnant.


So I should? I have them both in a bin cage right now because one is pregnant and the other one isn't strong enough still to be climbing around in their bar cage. I guess I should put the pregnant one in a 10 gallon? The sick one I'm going to keep in a bin until she's strong enough to not hurt herself by climbing around. Almost lost her and just not wanting to risk anything right now. 
The pregnant one is really helping with keeping my other one warm. But if they have to be separated I will keep her really warm another way I suppose. Blankies and stuff.


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## Kaiser

Aww sorry about your sick ratty, and congratulations on your pregnant ratty. My cousin once was in a similar situation and she left them together. The other female helped take care of the babies. However, your other gal is sick, so I think sperating is a good idea. And as you said just give her plenty of blankies to keep warm. You could even put a heating pad under her cage.


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## Lightning

Kaiser said:


> Aww sorry about your sick ratty, and congratulations on your pregnant ratty. My cousin once was in a similar situation and she left them together. The other female helped take care of the babies. However, your other gal is sick, so I think separating is a good idea. And as you said just give her plenty of blankies to keep warm. You could even put a heating pad under her cage.


She's not sick with anything contagious so I'm not worried of her spreading it, and I have no heating pad at the moment. :/ But it never gets cold in here, usually is around 73, with a blanky should that be good?


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## Kaiser

I think a blanky would work. They naturally like to wedge them self in material for comfort, so it would be perfect. I am actually using a old long sleeve fleece pajama top for my ratties. They love sleeping in the sleeves of it. My mom keeps it rather chilly, so it is extra warmth for them.


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## Rumy91989

You should separate them until the babies are at least two weeks old. There can be a lot of tragedy if you leave a nursing momma with another rat.


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## RattieLover1331

If the rattie isn't contagious, you could keep them together.

My friend separted hers because they were really close, and the mama would have been more focused on her sister than her pups

It really depends how you would feel about them living together


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## Lightning

Okay thank you guys, we've decided to separate them and move the pregnant one into a 10 gallon tonight. Makes me feel bad though because its so tiny and I'm not sure when she's gonna pop, she looks pretty big though. So I can put my other rattie in with the babies and mama when they are 2+ weeks old, or should I wait until they are bigger than that?


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## Rumy91989

In this scenario it would be best to put momma rattie and babies back in the bigger cage with your other rat when they're over two weeks old, but that's only if you let them meet plenty outside of the cage and your other rat shows no signs of aggression towards the babies. An adult rat can kill a baby rat in seconds, sometimes by accident, so you can't be too careful with these things. 
Good luck with momma rat and keep us updated on her progress!


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## Lightning

Rumy91989 said:


> In this scenario it would be best to put momma rattie and babies back in the bigger cage with your other rat when they're over two weeks old, but that's only if you let them meet plenty outside of the cage and your other rat shows no signs of aggression towards the babies. An adult rat can kill a baby rat in seconds, sometimes by accident, so you can't be too careful with these things.
> Good luck with momma rat and keep us updated on her progress!


Thank you! I will keep you guys updated, she's in the 10 gallon for now and is looking pretty big. I'm wondering when its safe for babies to move into the bar cage without escaping? There are a few problem places I see where they could squeeze out of, adult rats can't but I can see babies being able to. How would I let her meet them, would I just put her in with mama and babies or take them all out and let them be together? Which would be best way to do it? 
My baby girl who isn't pregnant isn't aggressive at all but I'm not sure how she'd do with babies since she's lost a litter before? (all died before birth) I think she would have made a good mama given the chance, poor girl.


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## Rumy91989

When you want them to meet, let them all play in a safe place like your bed and couch. Momma rat will still want to get out and play every day so I imagine you'll have a routine set up for her to be playing with her cagemate at least once a day anyway, then you just incorporate the babies into that routine when they're old enough. 

What is the bar spacing on your cage? Babies can't escape anything under 1/2" bar spacing, especially when they're 3ish weeks old.


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## Lightning

Rumy91989 said:


> When you want them to meet, let them all play in a safe place like your bed and couch. Momma rat will still want to get out and play every day so I imagine you'll have a routine set up for her to be playing with her cagemate at least once a day anyway, then you just incorporate the babies into that routine when they're old enough.
> 
> What is the bar spacing on your cage? Babies can't escape anything under 1/2" bar spacing, especially when they're 3ish weeks old.


That sounds good, I have areas they can all safely play together when old enough, it will be safe for mama to get out and play? For no more than 10-15 minutes so babies don't get cold though right? I'm not sure about rats, I know when I first gave birth it was days before I could walk from the pain but its probably better for rats lol. 

I just went and measured the bars, they are exactly 1/2inch in spacing but the doors can be easily stretched open while latched to 1 inch spacing which my rats have never escaped from and hope they never will. Wish the doors were better...but you think the babies could squeeze them selves out of that? I know rats are squishy and can squeeze so I'm not positive.


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## Rumy91989

The babies should be fine in the bigger cage when they're old enough. 

Yes, momma should get time away from the babies every day. In fact, soon she'll be begging for this. Rats bounce back from birth very quickly and while she'll feed and keep her babies warm most of the time, she needs a break at least once a day to keep her sanity.  Imagine having 8-12 human babies to take care of. Wouldn't that get overwhelming?


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## Lightning

Rumy91989 said:


> The babies should be fine in the bigger cage when they're old enough.
> 
> Yes, momma should get time away from the babies every day. In fact, soon she'll be begging for this. Rats bounce back from birth very quickly and while she'll feed and keep her babies warm most of the time, she needs a break at least once a day to keep her sanity.  Imagine having 8-12 human babies to take care of. Wouldn't that get overwhelming?


Oh yes definitely, one is overwhelming enough lol!! I will make sure to let her out and about.  She's still a bit skittish so she still hides a lot when I get her out, will this still be okay for her?

Also was looking at your ratties names and couldn't help but notice you seem to be a final fantasy fan.  Lol


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## Rumy91989

It's fine if she hides a bit when you let her out. If you have an old blanket she can burrow in then let her play in there. Rats love to play in blankets, especially the shy ones.  

Haha, yes, I am a final fantasy fan.  All of our girls are named for game/Anime characters, but the majority are final fantasy. Hehe. 

In other news, your avatar is the cutest thing I have ever seen in my life.


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## Lightning

Rumy91989 said:


> It's fine if she hides a bit when you let her out. If you have an old blanket she can burrow in then let her play in there. Rats love to play in blankets, especially the shy ones.
> 
> Haha, yes, I am a final fantasy fan.  All of our girls are named for game/Anime characters, but the majority are final fantasy. Hehe.
> 
> In other news, your avatar is the cutest thing I have ever seen in my life.


Yeah I think she would like hiding in a blankie, that sounds like a good idea, thank you. 

Hehe cool, anime/games are <3 <3

Thank you! It's an eevee dressed up in a sylveon costume, I thought it was cute too. x3


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## Lightning

Sorry for the double post but here are some pics, does she look about ready to pop? Lol. The very last one is of my other sweetie, she was a lab rat.


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## Rumy91989

Awww, what a cutie! I love PEWs! My Yuki is a PEW. 

She does look rather large, so I imagine she'll pop soon. If not today or tomorrow than Monday. They don't stay that big for very long.


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## Lightning

The store that we got her from had at least 25 rats and every single one was a PEW lol! I think they were feeder rats. The other one confuses me, she has a few really light spots on her head and her back. So I wonder if that still makes her a PEW?

So she does look she'll go in the next few days?


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## Rumy91989

No, I think that means she's an amber/champagne and might be mismarked. They're only PEWs/albinos if there's absolutely no color on them at all. I imagine if momma rat was in a bin with a bunch of other male PEWs then you'll probably get a whole litter of PEWs.


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## Lightning

Yeah, she is mostly white but has a teeny bit of pinkish/yellowish (its a weird color lol) on her head and back, her nick name is spot head haha.
Probably, she could surprise me though.  There were more rats in the back I didn't see. Is it possible she has other genetics that will show in her pups? We will see soon, there will for sure be pics.  I'm pretty sure they were all PEW, I didn't check to see if any had small spots but they definitely looked PEW.


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## Lightning

*update*
She is still huge and still has not popped yet! Lol. She has been quite lazy though, and she absolutely does not agree with me touching anything in the cage right now, including her food bowl or she will bite me. She isn't nesting, I've given her different things and she just doesn't pay attention to it, is that weird? She also wants to stay in the corner and pushes all of the bedding away so she can lay on the glass of the aquarium, she doesn't want any boxes I give her. I don't want her to have her babies on the cold glass.


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## LightningWolf

If you want to know mom is a Champagne hooded  Which in genetic terms is (a/a p/p h/h). a/a meaning that she is a "self" rat (her fur has no ticking/bands in it. also known as black based), p/p meaning that she has pink eyes, and h/h meaning that she is hooded.

If the other rats in there were albinos they were probably black hooded genetically (albino covers up all color) so you'll probably have a litter of black hooded, with chance of albino and chance of champagne. Of coarse if they are albino you can't know what color they are genetically so that's just a guess. 

If the others were champagnes then the whole little will be champagne.

I wouldn't worry too much about her shoving all the bedding away, it's possible that she's hot and just wants to cool off. Also it's possible that before she gives birth she'll rebuild the nest. I personally don't think her having them on the glass if that's how she makes the nest will be a major issue.


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## Flora

LW I love your genetic lessons! I have tried figuring things out and once I think i have one down theres an exception! 

Lightning cant wait to see photos!


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## Lightning

LightningWolf said:


> If you want to know mom is a Champagne hooded  Which in genetic terms is (a/a p/p h/h). a/a meaning that she is a "self" rat (her fur has no ticking/bands in it. also known as black based), p/p meaning that she has pink eyes, and h/h meaning that she is hooded.
> 
> If the other rats in there were albinos they were probably black hooded genetically (albino covers up all color) so you'll probably have a litter of black hooded, with chance of albino and chance of champagne. Of coarse if they are albino you can't know what color they are genetically so that's just a guess.
> 
> If the others were champagnes then the whole little will be champagne.
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about her shoving all the bedding away, it's possible that she's hot and just wants to cool off. Also it's possible that before she gives birth she'll rebuild the nest. I personally don't think her having them on the glass if that's how she makes the nest will be a major issue.


Well actually its my non-mama rat that has the spot on her head  Even though its not a full hood and just a spot, would that make her hooded?
The mama rat is pure white I do believe. She has recently gotten some yellowish brownish color around the back of her neck but I think she may just be dirty. 

I just mostly worry about it in case they got too cold on the glass. It's usually around 73 degrees in here and in the closet its a little colder, so I open it quite a bit (its a big walk in closet that they basically have all to themselves.)

Thank you lots for all the info!


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## Lightning

Flora said:


> LW I love your genetic lessons! I have tried figuring things out and once I think i have one down theres an exception!
> 
> Lightning cant wait to see photos!


I like these little lessons too, they are cool. 
I can't wait to TAKE pictures lol! She looks so huge she should definitely be going soon. She's just her regular old self except she's not been wanting to eat her lab blocks, basically anything but. -__- So I'm trying to get her a different brand, looks like my options are only online.


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## LightningWolf

I was actually talking about your momma, from the pictures on the second page. for your non-momma rat, I would say she's probably capped? hard to say without pictures since a spot on her head can mean a million things.

Thanks, I'm not in a genetics mood though so your lucky I mentioned even that much. School has been knocking all of it out of me (at least it's almost over), that's also why I wasn't on here for over a week (and my computer also crashed but that's besides the point). Maybe when school is over I'll be able to give more in depth genetic lessons again


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## Lightning

LightningWolf said:


> I was actually talking about your momma, from the pictures on the second page. for your non-momma rat, I would say she's probably capped? hard to say without pictures since a spot on her head can mean a million things.
> 
> Thanks, I'm not in a genetics mood though so your lucky I mentioned even that much. School has been knocking all of it out of me (at least it's almost over), that's also why I wasn't on here for over a week (and my computer also crashed but that's besides the point). Maybe when school is over I'll be able to give more in depth genetic lessons again


Oh lol, so my mama rat may be hooded but its just like, invisible? Cool! 
EEK, school! Studying anything to do with genetics? Or you've taught yourself everything?


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## Rumy91989

I can't believe she hasn't popped yet! Crazy! Well, keep us posted.

And being pregnant can make her feel pretty hot, so the cool glass probably feels nice. If she gives birth and you're worried the babies won't be warm enough just be sure to place some warm things around the cage, or even put some newly cooked eggs in there for momma to eat as the heat from them would warm up the aquarium.


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## Lightning

Oh my god i just went and checked and one of the babies has been born. Oh my god it is adorable and sweet and oafsfdjlkadjklfkds.


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## Rumy91989

Awwww yay!!! let us know when you have a baby count!


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## Lightning

I sure will!! Jesus I'm more excited than I should be, but it was SOOO CUTE!! It's little head was moving so I think it was okay.


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## Lightning

*update* (sorry I don't see the edit post option?) There are at least 11! I can't get a good count because she's laying on some but there are at least 11 so far.  And they are squeaking a lot.


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## Rumy91989

Oh wow! A big litter! Squeee!


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## Lightning

^__^ When can I safely do a good check on them without her freaking out and like, eating them or something?! (my boyfriend seems to think if we check on her she'll freak out and eat them so I've been only checking a little bit, which is by the way very hard to do lol) She's a nervous rat so I don't want to risk anything. Will morning be okay? I want to make sure they are okay but I will leave her alone if that's best. And they are squeaking a LOT, she isn't hurting them right? I heard some of the babies eating from mom. When she pulled away thats when squeaking started so maybe they are just mad?

So I will probably be keeping two and I've already found a home for two, now to start looking really hard for homes for the rest when they are ready!


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## Rumy91989

She'll need some out of cage time every day and that's a good time to clean the cage and check on the babies.


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## Lightning

Do you think she'll let me get her out? Or should I just give her the option to come out on her own by taking the top off the aquarium and seeing if she wants to come out? I don't want to get bitten lol she's been very protective of her things the past few days. Should I try tomorrow?


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## Rumy91989

Yes, take the top off, maybe give her a ladder to climb in case she's sore.


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## Lightning

Rumy91989 said:


> Yes, take the top off, maybe give her a ladder to climb in case she's sore.


Okay, thanks.  She's laying on most of them right now so I can't count but I think she's all done because she's relaxing and letting them eat.  I've seen black eyed ones already and one with red/pink eyes.  One was laying on its back and then wiggled over to her and started cuddling with her tail, it was sweet.


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## Lightning

Well these are the best pics I can get right now, but when she moved them all into a pile I counted at least 15 it could be more by a couple. Will get a better count tomorrow if I can get her out of the aquarium, she seems to be a pretty good mommy and they have cute little milk tummies! She keeps licking them and accidentally stepping on them which they don't care for too much lol, but she seems like a sweet mama. <3
I've already called my mom all excited and she thinks I'm looney lol.


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## Rumy91989

Oh wow, 15? Don't be surprised if a few don't make it as she only has 12 nipples so she might kill a few to give the rest a better chance. Make sure she's getting lots and lots of protein!


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## Lightning

Yeah I was worried about that, but expecting it as I've been reading as many stories as I could and I've noticed a couple will often die.  
I am! ^_^ I have given her egg today and I don't have much but did give her some high quality cat food from when I had a cat that she really loves and has a lot of protein and I'm going to the store tomorrow and am going to pick up some yummy protein filled things to give her like sardines and such. (any suggestions on what else I can get?)


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## Lightning

16 babies.  I counted them 3 times when she wasn't in the aquarium. They all seem like they are doing good and have milk bands, and I held one!! It was so cute and warm and wiggly, then it went to sleep.


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## Rumy91989

OH MY GOSH 16??? And they're still all eating and everything? Wow, mommy must be a great mommy!

For protein, it sounds like you're doing ti right. Eggs, sardines, and babyfoods like pea flavored baby food tend to be the best. The cat food is good too.  The more protein she gets the more easily she'll be able to maintain that huge litter, so good luck! Can't wait to see more pics!


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## Lightning

Rumy91989 said:


> OH MY GOSH 16??? And they're still all eating and everything? Wow, mommy must be a great mommy!
> 
> For protein, it sounds like you're doing ti right. Eggs, sardines, and babyfoods like pea flavored baby food tend to be the best. The cat food is good too.  The more protein she gets the more easily she'll be able to maintain that huge litter, so good luck! Can't wait to see more pics!


She seems like such a good mommy.  Tonight when my toddler goes to sleep and my boyfriend gets off of work we are going to take her out again and give the babies a really good check over to see if they are all eating or not. She kept running back to the aquarium and jumping in and checking to see what we were doing and then she'd get back out, haha. If I can, I'm going to do a baby line up on my bed, it will make a very cute picture.  I have those things to give her for protein plus some soy yogurt I got. Don't worry my other girl rattie is getting yummy treats too.


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## Rumy91989

Baby line ups are the best pictures!


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## Lightning

Rumy91989 said:


> Baby line ups are the best pictures!


Yep! <3 <3 I know this is a rat forum, but this couldn't be at a worse time because I also have pet gerbils that were mis-sexed from a small local pet shop and will now probably be having gerbil babies soon too. ??? I'm not sure how I'm going to pull off socializing every single baby with an almost 3 year old to also take care of. It will be a challenge, but I absolutely am in love with the pinkies so I think it will make it easier since I look forward to spending time with them.


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## Lightning

How come when you leave the page the edit post option goes away? I hate double posting so much I'm not sure if thats okay or not. But here is the one we held:









I'm sad they won't stay pink for longer, it is the cutest thing.


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## LightningWolf

Congrats. Full milk bellys too. While rats only have 12 nipples it's not unusual for rats to raise successful litters over 12. They tend to split them into 2 groups to nurse at a time. Congrats though on 16.

So her hood isn't invisible. Champagnes tend to be so light that they Look albino, though if you look more closely you will notice the different color (a very light tan) that shows the hood marking. (Note, this is often a good reason to have semi-bad lighting, I've noticed that in dull lighting it's much easier to see the pattern, or maybe that's just me.). Since you mention that some have pink eyes looks like it's a mix of Black hoodeds and Champagne hoodeds. Good news is that with babies (before around 6 weeks) it is really easy to see their pattern (in champagnes) before it dulls out to almost white. Hope that wasn't confusing.

I'm in high school so closest I ever got to genetics this year was at the beginning of the semester in Biology. I might study genetics in college though.

So yes when it comes to rat genetics I am self-taught. At first it's confusing but once you get an understanding of the basics and what a lot of the terms mean it's easy.


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## Rumy91989

What a little cutie!

Wow, gerbil babies too? Man there are going to be a lot of babies hanging around you for a while. Good luck! 

Can't wait to see more pics!


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## Lightning

So it looks like I miscounted earlier, there are 15 babies.  7 light eyes/pigments and 8 dark eyes/pigments. Looks like the daddy may have been dark judging from how dark some of the dark eyed of already are on day two.

Sorry I don't have better quality pics, couldn't find my camera so they are phone pics.  Will take better ones tomorrow night!!














dark eyed babies-- light eyed babies


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## Rumy91989

Awww so cute! Any updates from the weekend?


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## Lightning

I do actually! A very strange one. I'll start off by saying I mostly have probably all PEWS, and a lot of dark colored ones, really dark. A couple are a bit lighter. And one that looks variagated? 

The weird part: When I cleaned the aquarium for the first time, I put mom and the babies in a big plastic tote. I didn't count the babies until after they were already back in the aquarium and could only count 14. I counted 14 for days, figured the runt must of have died and mom took care of it. Well, my boyfriend went into the rat room and was talking to the rats. When I went in as well, I saw a baby rat on the cold floor! I asked my boyfriend why on earth he put one on the floor and he had no idea how it got there! It is TINY, like it hadn't been fed in days. (it was days after the tank was cleaned) It's much smaller than the others. I am back at 15 babies. We cannot figure out how or why. Unless the mom tried to get out of the tote with one of her babies and dropped it and I just didn't see it anywhere. But if thats the case, how on EARTH did it live so long? I'm not sure if it will live, or how long it was out of the tank or even HOW it got out of it. I have been in that room every day and did not see or hear a baby anywhere but inside the tank with mom, yet number 15 somehow magically reappeared. I thought it had been eaten! I'm stumped. I would post a picture update but cannot locate my flash drive.


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## Lightning

Pic:

Are the lighter ones just going to be a lighter grey than the ones that look black? The one on the bottom right doesn't actually have a spot on its head, its just my camera playing tricks.


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## Rumy91989

Yeah, it looks like you have blacks as well as blues and some cool patterns. In another week their patterns will be super clear.Crazy on that last baby! I hope it makes it!


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## Lightning

Yeah it's really crazy! As far as I can tell I only have one patterned baby, maybe some berkshires. The pink ones will probably just be white since the mom is white, right?


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## Maiden

Likely so. Will you be able to tell that magical mystery baby apart from the others?


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## Lightning

Maiden said:


> Likely so. Will you be able to tell that magical mystery baby apart from the others?


It's going to be white, I can tell them apart easily right now because of the crazy size difference, I will have to show you guys.


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## rinny11

Wow! They are beautiful! And that last picture with momma is the cutest thing ever. Mom looks so content.  Please keep updating us about everything as they grow! Good luck.


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## Lightning

Thank you, I will!! I'm very worried they won't be easy to place since they are PEW's and blacks.


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## the_musical_fruit

I see you're in VA, we are looking for a male to neuter and introduce to our 2 girls so if any boys can't find a home we would love to adopt! We don't care about color/markings. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Lightning

the_musical_fruit said:


> I see you're in VA, we are looking for a male to neuter and introduce to our 2 girls so if any boys can't find a home we would love to adopt! We don't care about color/markings.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



Okay!  It would be a long drive though, I'm at the very bottom west part of VA.


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## LightningWolf

Sad that your up north, and we're also trying to reduce our colony size down to 2 again, I would happily steal all of your "boring albinos and blacks" ;D But that isn't going to be the case sadly. But I know that there are more people like me on here, and I'm sure in your area, who just love the "boring" rats.

Looks like mom and the pups are doing good. Hopefully little runty small guy makes it. Does he have a special name yet?


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## Lightning

Nope, none of them have names yet! I figured I'd let the new owners name them.  If the runt makes it we are probably going to keep that one though, so tiny. I think all my baby ratties are super cute, I'm just worried it will be hard finding them owners, especially the albinos. I've red a lot of people think the red eyes look "evil"  But you are right someone is bound to think they are cute!


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## Lightning

Well sad to say that it seems the tiny little one has passed.  We cleaned out the tank again last night and it was no where to be seen, would she have eaten the whole baby? Because we sifted through the bedding slowly and found no evidence. But it isn't there any more.  It was less than half the size of the others so I figured this would happen. But I do have pictures to update with shortly.  They are so cute and fuzzy I wish I could hold them all day! I'd also like to say that I introduced my other female to them today and it went smoothly, even mama rat doesn't care when she is near her babies and lets her snuggle them. But my question is, can I put them together now or should I wait longer to let them stay together? There's no aggression but is it a worry that the mom will snuggle with my other female too much instead of taking care of the babies?


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