# Oh the Squeaking.



## Willeaux (Nov 24, 2011)

Voe just birthed her first, accidental litter. The process was quick, I hardly seen any blood, and she never had any complications. All eleven made it out alive, for now, but she isn't nursing. She didn't make a nest, she barely ate any of the extra foods I offered her when I realized I accidentally bought a pregnant rat, and I haven't had her for a full week yet so she isn't exactly willing to let me around the young ones or herself right now. I can't even get her into a small cramped space so that she has no choice but to let them nurse, is there anything else I can do? It's been over an hour and a half now. I haven't disturbed her; as soon as I realized she was going into labor I turned off my lights, my music, and put the others in their cages. I feel as though she just needs some time to chill out and will start nursing soon, but I still wanted to ask the Forum.

Also, how long should I wait before checking them for milk bands?
I seem to be worrying a little too much about the whole ordeal, 
any advice or personal stories would be greatly appreciated.
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## DivineSheep (Sep 24, 2011)

Sometimes, with first litters, the mother doesn't know what the heck she should be doing with the babies. It's a matter of experience- in nature, rats get to see how other females nurse their young. When a caged rat does not get this privilage, she may not know how to nurse her first litter. That's nature, and it sucks.

Keep checking on the kiddies every day and look for milk bands. If there are none, they may not make it. But give your rat time, she may start taking care of them after a while. 

If you're really set on saving a few, and you're 110% sure your rat is not nursing, you could handfeed them quality puppy or kitten formula through a small pipette or preferably a small animal feeding syringe if you can get your hands on one.

The exact quantity of food and feeding times depend on the weight of the baby, and are found easily online. I'm speaking with only the experience of taking care of an orphaned rat, so you may wanna get a few more replies and decide what to do.

Best of luck! Hope I helped a bit.
Keep us updated


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

I don't think that's true at all, DivineSheep. Parental instincts are very strong in rats, even some females who have never had a litter will carry young rats around like their own babies. They can sense things in their babies that we can't. If she's not nursing, she probably feels she is not strong enough to mother a litter, or there is something wrong with the babies. You can try to feed them by hand, but at that age, it's likely you would lose a few of them. Sometimes it is best to let nature just take its course. I am hoping for the best though.


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## Willeaux (Nov 24, 2011)

Jaguar said:


> I don't think that's true at all, DivineSheep. Parental instincts are very strong in rats, even some females who have never had a litter will carry young rats around like their own babies. They can sense things in their babies that we can't. If she's not nursing, she probably feels she is not strong enough to mother a litter, or there is something wrong with the babies. You can try to feed them by hand, but at that age, it's likely you would lose a few of them. Sometimes it is best to let nature just take its course. I am hoping for the best though.


I'm not ready to give up just yet, but I won't resort to hand raising. I had an accidental pregnancy in another pet store rat awhile back that ended in her reabsorbing the litter, I was originally hoping that would be the case with this one. Even though I only had her for a week, she is strongly bonded with my other two females; would it help any to put the oldest in with her?


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## DivineSheep (Sep 24, 2011)

Jaguar said:


> I don't think that's true at all, DivineSheep. Parental instincts are very strong in rats, even some females who have never had a litter will carry young rats around like their own babies. They can sense things in their babies that we can't. If she's not nursing, she probably feels she is not strong enough to mother a litter, or there is something wrong with the babies. You can try to feed them by hand, but at that age, it's likely you would lose a few of them. Sometimes it is best to let nature just take its course. I am hoping for the best though.


What I wrote is what I learned from watching National Geographic, plus it happened to one of my rats. I bought a pregnant rat who wouldn't take care of her litter, but was a great mother to her second litter (accidental of course- my buck and doe had both been let out to free range in my room by a friend who didn't know they were opposite sexes).

It doesn't always happen, but it's been known to happen in all types of animals- strong instincts or not.

Either way, maybe she'll start nursing a little while later, but I doubt they'll all make it.

Don't put another rat in with her, he may distract her from nursing or trample her babies accidently


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## Willeaux (Nov 24, 2011)

DivineSheep said:


> ...Either way, maybe she'll start nursing a little while later, but I doubt they'll all make it.
> 
> Don't put another rat in with her, he may distract her from nursing or trample her babies accidently


She now has them in two lines, face to face, suggesting the pattern of her nipples. But I don't see any milk bands yet, I wonder if she's lactating. I'm fairly sure you are right though, that she'll start nursing later on in the day. I know several won't make it but I believe it's better that way, considering I have more rats than people interested in them, and I'd rather see them die here than wait for death in a cramped feeder cage.


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## DivineSheep (Sep 24, 2011)

What a depressing thought, but you're right :S

The pattern they're in is a good sign. Maybe she's about to start, or maybe she's been feeding them but not enough for a milk band to show just yet.

As for lactating, you've mentioned she won't eat. Try giving her something with lots of protein, like eggs, peanut butter or fatty cheese. She may also show interest in something that is a little more snack-ish, so try putting something sweet (but not too sugary) in her food bowl WITH the normal food, so the smell will attract her.


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## Willeaux (Nov 24, 2011)

DivineSheep said:


> What a depressing thought, but you're right :S
> 
> The pattern they're in is a good sign. Maybe she's about to start, or maybe she's been feeding them but not enough for a milk band to show just yet.
> 
> As for lactating, you've mentioned she won't eat. Try giving her something with lots of protein, like eggs, peanut butter or fatty cheese. She may also show interest in something that is a little more snack-ish, so try putting something sweet (but not too sugary) in her food bowl WITH the normal food, so the smell will attract her.


I lifted up the blanket I've covered the cage with and caught her hovering over the babies, you may be right about having not enough milk in them yet.
During her pregnancy I've added tuna and hard boiled egg slices to her diet, thinking she'd enjoy them since the others love it. This morning I went all out offered her a buffet to choose from in a desperate attempt to see her eat; warm scrambled eggs, a little bit of turkey, apples, spinach, shredded chedder cheese, some slight sweetened granola, and even some fatty lunch meat hoping she would take a liking to at least something in there. I did also sprinkle some brown sugar on a single green apple; a treat I give to them on very rare occasions. I didn't realize the significance of putting it in with her other food so it attracts her, but luckily I did do just that. A lot of that food is now scattered throughout the cage so I'm not sure how much she's eaten, but I have let her lick natural Smucker's peanut butter from my open palm to show her that she can trust my hand and I didn't think to put any in there as a food source. 

All eleven babies are still alive for now.


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## TheHermit (Nov 15, 2011)

I volunteered at a orphaned wildlife rehab center for three summers. First things we were taught were how to hold the babies when we feed them to mimic how they would feed naturally, and the single purpose of this was to teach them how to nurse their own babies. A baby learns how to nurse from it's mother more than it's peers, and if the mother doesn't know how to properly nurse, none of her babies will. The position of the baby, how high you hold the bottle, and even if they can see (with raccoons we had to cover their eyes because their mama's fur would make it dark when they nursed) all factors in to how a baby learns to nurse.

But she came home pregnant? Was she a feeder baby (I assume so since you said she was "bought")? If so there could have been complications with her own mother. But that she's positioned them and is hovering is a very good sign! She may be trying to figure it out instinctively rather than from memory, which I figure would be a longer process for domestic animals since they aren't used to relying on the instincts that their wild cousins use daily. Trust her to figure it out from here, since if she's got all the steps right so far, she doesn't sound far off from finally hitting the nail. I personally believe she'll pull through in time to raise at least a few of her babies, if not all


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## Willeaux (Nov 24, 2011)

TheHermit said:


> I volunteered at a orphaned wildlife rehab center for three summers. First things we were taught were how to hold the babies when we feed them to mimic how they would feed naturally, and the single purpose of this was to teach them how to nurse their own babies. A baby learns how to nurse from it's mother more than it's peers, and if the mother doesn't know how to properly nurse, none of her babies will. The position of the baby, how high you hold the bottle, and even if they can see (with raccoons we had to cover their eyes because their mama's fur would make it dark when they nursed) all factors in to how a baby learns to nurse.
> 
> But she came home pregnant? Was she a feeder baby (I assume so since you said she was "bought")? If so there could have been complications with her own mother. But that she's positioned them and is hovering is a very good sign! She may be trying to figure it out instinctively rather than from memory, which I figure would be a longer process for domestic animals since they aren't used to relying on the instincts that their wild cousins use daily. Trust her to figure it out from here, since if she's got all the steps right so far, she doesn't sound far off from finally hitting the nail. I personally believe she'll pull through in time to raise at least a few of her babies, if not all


That sounds like a wonderful experience, I wish I lived in an area with opportunities like that; I'd volunteer in a heartbeat.

But she was sold as a pet, in a cage marked as "Male dumbo rats." I didn't go to Petco looking to buy a rat, I went with a friend who wanted to look at cages, and I seen her standing up against the cage wanting to meet us. She seemed to have the same fearless personality as Luca does and that's why I had to take her home with me. I originally thought it was a male, as the cage was marked, and planned to keep her caged with Rudi. But when I asked one of the men to let me see her, I then noticed she was female (and wasn't a dumbo either but I like top ears better so this was a plus). The man's response, almost word for word, was "no, they shipped us all males. If it was female there would have been a litter by now" Knowing that rats rarely stay at a pet store long enough for a full gestation period, I just held my tongue and just took her anyway, prepared to take whatever came next. It was rather foolish, but she's been a wonderful rat and will probably open up even more now that her pregnancy is over. She had her babies exactly a week after bringing her home.

She did finally start nursing them  They were born early this morning around nine, and I seen the first milk band a half an hour ago, at four o'clock. All eleven babies are still alive, and I hope it stays that way. I'm so used to seeing her with a huge belly, that she looks so incredibly skinny by comparison. I haven't been able to get her to eat much since I brought her home and that bothers me, but I trust that her appetite will pick up in a few days.

I also found guaranteed homes for ALL surviving babies, success.


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## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

Willeaux said:


> She did finally start nursing them  They were born early this morning around nine, and I seen the first milk band a half an hour ago, at four o'clock. All eleven babies are still alive, and I hope it stays that way. I'm so used to seeing her with a huge belly, that she looks so incredibly skinny by comparison. I haven't been able to get her to eat much since I brought her home and that bothers me, but I trust that her appetite will pick up in a few days.


It's good news that Voe is nursing and the pups have milk bands, yay! I know that dams of many species may not always start nursing immediately, since sometimes it takes a while for lactation to commence. Perhaps that is all it was in Voe's case.

Also, I suspect that her appetite will pick up now, since lactating takes a lot out of a mother. Good luck, and congratulations on finding homes for the entire litter already!


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## DivineSheep (Sep 24, 2011)

Great news so far, I'm happy things are working out 
Don't worry too much about her eating habits, she'll get hungry soon enough. My own accidental litter was followed by the same thing, and my lil girl only started eating regularly again after 2 whole days of not touching her bowl. I gave her some snacks during these 2 days to keep her fed, she seemed to prefer chicken and hard boiled eggs.


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## TheHermit (Nov 15, 2011)

-.-' the more I hear about petsmart/co the less I want to go there... and I love going to PetSmart, just to look - the mice are always so **** cute!
BUT that's good! hehe maybe she forgot she was even female for a while, living with all those men...


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## teri (Jul 18, 2011)

How are the babies?


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## Willeaux (Nov 24, 2011)

All eleven are still alive and thriving with zero complications. Their fur is starting to come in and they sniff and taste my fingers. Mama takes wonderful care of them when she isn't desperately trying to get out for a break. All eleven of them have guarunteed homes at this time.


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## giggles_mcbug (Sep 10, 2011)

Pictures, please?


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