# New baby rat.. need help.



## Fueazi (Jul 27, 2017)

I got an adorable dumbo rat today she looks only a few weeks old. 

She is so shy and scared... I don't know how to make her feel comfortable. I try to slowly and softly pet her inside the cage but she runs unless shes napping. I try holding her in her cage and she just jumps outta my hands. I'm scared to hold her outside of the cage. She hasn't accepted any treats outta my hand but she has ate by herself and drank some water. I don't know how to calm her down and let me hold her or at least pet her for a first step. ???

She is so small so I feel like if I let her play in the rat area for my other rat she would escape somehow they're flexible she is tiny!

What would you do if she was your rat? I need help but I don't want to overwhelm her either. I want her to trust me.  Thank you. ♥


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

They will often be timid at first when they are in a new home. I always socialize right away. In the past I've had timid rats become more timid when I gave them too much space, so now I don't waste time with new babies, in fact I leave them to themselves for an hour when they first get home and then I begin to socialize them. I wear a comfortable loose onesie around the house so it's very easy to just sit down somewhere like at my desk and I hold them on my lap and they will hide inside and fall asleep. Often they will mostly hide in my sleeves at first, but they warm up very quickly just by spending a few hours here and there. They tend to just fall asleep and it doesn't take long before they're very excited to come running up my sleeve to hang out.

And when you do pick her up, be sure you scoop her calmly into your hands, because the more she scurries away the more that behavior becomes reinforced ("If I run away, they can't grab me!"). A quick calm scoop and then bring her close to your chest and sit down somewhere with a loose sweater or a bonding pouch if you have one. It can be on the toilet seat even, if you're nervous about her jumping. I've only had 2 babies who ever wanted to jump off my lap from my desk chair though, and the breeder told me in advance that they really enjoyed jumping. Also, positive association through treats very much helps. I recommend something that they can't just take and run off and hide with, something that they have to stay near you and lick from a spoon or from your hand, like yogurt or baby food.


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## Fueazi (Jul 27, 2017)

I do gently scoop her never grab her any other way but she jumps off before I can even get her outta the cage. I don't wear onsies or have one so that wouldn't work.. I'll try the sweater thing though I just hope she doesnt get scared.



Coffeebean said:


> They will often be timid at first when they are in a new home. I always socialize right away. In the past I've had timid rats become more timid when I gave them too much space, so now I don't waste time with new babies, in fact I leave them to themselves for an hour when they first get home and then I begin to socialize them. I wear a comfortable loose onesie around the house so it's very easy to just sit down somewhere like at my desk and I hold them on my lap and they will hide inside and fall asleep. Often they will mostly hide in my sleeves at first, but they warm up very quickly just by spending a few hours here and there. They tend to just fall asleep and it doesn't take long before they're very excited to come running up my sleeve to hang out.
> 
> And when you do pick her up, be sure you scoop her calmly into your hands, because the more she scurries away the more that behavior becomes reinforced ("If I run away, they can't grab me!"). A quick calm scoop and then bring her close to your chest and sit down somewhere with a loose sweater or a bonding pouch if you have one. It can be on the toilet seat even, if you're nervous about her jumping. I've only had 2 babies who ever wanted to jump off my lap from my desk chair though, and the breeder told me in advance that they really enjoyed jumping. Also, positive association through treats very much helps. I recommend something that they can't just take and run off and hide with, something that they have to stay near you and lick from a spoon or from your hand, like yogurt or baby food.


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## Shadow <3 (Jan 25, 2017)

I, like Coffeebean, socialize new rats as soon as I get them. I've never gotten alread tame rats, so for me it's a must as I want to get the taming bit over as soon as possible. I think it's better to have a scared rat for a few days than for weeks or months due to a persons unwillingness to scare or initiate interaction with them.

In your case, I would continue to scoop up your rattie in a calm but firm manner. An untame rat is going to be scared of you no matter what, so don't worry about that. By handling her and accustoming her to your presence, she'll conquer that fear much quicker than if you wait for her to get curious enough to approach. Some shy rats will never approach, and that's one of the reasons I always initiate interactions with my new rats. I had a very shy rat before, and waiting for her to approach got me nowhere. But when I finally decided to just handle her, things got better. Sure, I delt with fear poops and squeaking for a few days, but after that she realized that everything was fine and calmed down. I've done the same thing with my current shy rat Cream, and she's gone from peeing and pooping when I touch her to accepting handling and even jumping into my hand herself! 

A liquid treat is definitely another good idea, and my most utalized one is meat baby food. All my rats have absolutely loved meat baby food, and it's a great tool to get new rats to learn to come to you. Once I get my new rats to tolerate handling, I work on getting them to initiate interaction themselves by bribing them with meat baby food. It's strong scent and taste has gotten even my shyest girls to come over to me, and it's a great treat as it requires that your rats stand by/on your hand while eating it (thus helping them form a positive association with your hand). I usually stick to liquid treats at first, and only move on to solid treats once the rats are willingly approaching my hand.

But the best thing for any shy rat is to have a calm and confident cage mate(s) as an example. If you have any other rats, introducing your new girl to them may help. Once they've bonded, she'll see the other rats interacting with you in a positive manner and that will encourage her to interact with you. With my current new rats, the shy one (Cream) has copied my older girls and her confident sister, and when she sees them approach me she rushes to follow. I definitely credit my older girls for the speed at which she and her sister have become tame.

Just keep in mind that an untame rat (especially a young rat) isn't going to sit still while you slowly pick them up. I find the best thing to do is to make the process quick and firm, so that the rat doesn't even realize they've been scooped up until after its happened. I practice scooping up and unusually letting go of my new rats multiple times a day, and I find that this helps to quickly desensitize them to the process. 

I wish you luck taming your new girl, and I'm sure she'll get there soon.


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## Fueazi (Jul 27, 2017)

I had her running around my hoodie this morning through my arms sleeves and every thing I'm not sure if she liked it or not.. but after her being in there for 15 mins she peed.. I don't mind but does that mean shes scared or just nervous? I don't want her to be neither.. Would really appreciate it if you could or someone can tell me.



Shadow <3 said:


> I, like Coffeebean, socialize new rats as soon as I get them. I've never gotten alread tame rats, so for me it's a must as I want to get the taming bit over as soon as possible. I think it's better to have a scared rat for a few days than for weeks or months due to a persons unwillingness to scare or initiate interaction with them.
> 
> In your case, I would continue to scoop up your rattie in a calm but firm manner. An untame rat is going to be scared of you no matter what, so don't worry about that. By handling her and accustoming her to your presence, she'll conquer that fear much quicker than if you wait for her to get curious enough to approach. Some shy rats will never approach, and that's one of the reasons I always initiate interactions with my new rats. I had a very shy rat before, and waiting for her to approach got me nowhere. But when I finally decided to just handle her, things got better. Sure, I delt with fear poops and squeaking for a few days, but after that she realized that everything was fine and calmed down. I've done the same thing with my current shy rat Cream, and she's gone from peeing and pooping when I touch her to accepting handling and even jumping into my hand herself!
> 
> ...


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

Fueazi said:


> I had her running around my hoodie this morning through my arms sleeves and every thing I'm not sure if she liked it or not.. but after her being in there for 15 mins she peed.. I don't mind but does that mean shes scared or just nervous? I don't want her to be neither.. Would really appreciate it if you could or someone can tell me.


Very common for baby rats to pee very frequently. They have very little bladder control and at just a few weeks old it was probably just that she had to "go" really bad. If it was out of fear it's likely she would have peed sooner rather than later, and there also would likely have been fear poops as well.

To reduce the likelihood of them urinating when they're out with you, wait like 10 minutes if they've just woken up from a nap, as this is the time that they'll want to go and relieve themselves. Also, with young rats since they have to go potty more often, giving them breaks every once in awhile to go potty in the cage will save you the trouble of having to clean up any little messes from yourself.


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## Shadow <3 (Jan 25, 2017)

As Coffeebean said, if the pee was due to fear, your rat would have done it as soon as you touched her. She also would have probably fear pooped, which you would have noticed right away (as fear poo is wetter and smellier than regular poop).

With my girl Cream, she would fear the pee and poo when you just touched or picked her up. It was a right away process, and more like a reaction than anything. If it took 15 minutes before your girl peed, she probably just really had to go. Young rats, like puppies, only have a short period of time after they feel like going in which they can find someplace to go. If she was on you when she felt the urge, she probably just went there, as she had nowhere else to go. My new girls peed on me a bit at first, as I did lots of "shirt bonding" (carrying them around in my shirt), giving them no option to just hop out and find a suitable place to toilet. Now that we're past that part of taming, they usually just go in a cardboard box when I have them out.

My older girls never pee on me, but they do mark me quite a bit. If your girl seems to be leaving small dots of urine on you, that's marking and something that most rats do for their entire lives. I've only had one girl that never marked me, and that was my shyest girl Sonic.

It sounds like your making good progress, so keep it up!


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## Fueazi (Jul 27, 2017)

Okay so you know from my previous posts..... My 1st rat Perrie tries to bite/nibble the new one through Terras cage... but doesn't when they're together.. is that normal? I mean the small one follows her around constantly and sniffs Perrie... They seem fine in the same area. They don't live together yet.



Shadow <3 said:


> As Coffeebean said, if the pee was due to fear, your rat would have done it as soon as you touched her. She also would have probably fear pooped, which you would have noticed right away (as fear poo is wetter and smellier than regular poopi1.
> 
> With my girl Cream, she would fear the pee and poo when you just touched or picked her up. It was a\ right away process, and more like a reaction than anything. If it to
> 
> ...


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

Fueazi said:


> Okay so you know from my previous posts..... My 1st rat Perrie tries to bite/nibble the new one through Terras cage... but doesn't when they're together.. is that normal? I mean the small one follows her around constantly and sniffs Perrie... They seem fine in the same area. They don't live together yet.


When rats are unfamiliar with each other they can get frustrated when they see another rat outside the bars of their cage, so it isn't unusual for them to act up more when they can't reach the other rat. Have they met inside of the cage yet or just outside?


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## Fueazi (Jul 27, 2017)

Inside and outside. They seem good together when they're actually together and not on opposite side bars. I've been trying to put Terra in my hoodie and what not all day but shes still very hyper and seems to not want to be held, but I'm trying. I'll have to wait till the 3rd sadly to buy treats for them.



Coffeebean said:


> When rats are unfamiliar with each other they can get frustrated when they see another rat outside the bars of their cage, so it isn't unusual for them to act up more when they can't reach the other rat. Have they met inside of the cage yet or just outside?


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## Shadow <3 (Jan 25, 2017)

Even my bonded rats will nibble and lick each others toes when ones on the outside and the others are inside the cage. It's just their reaction to something new entering their space. I've heard of even bonded rats biting each others toes through the cage bars, so I usually stick to having both my new and old rats play either inside or outside the cage. I've never seen any of my girls go so far as to bite the others toes, but the possibility seems amplified if the rats are strangers. 


Besides, as Coffeebean said, rats can get antsy when a strange rat is right outside their territory. With my previous girl Shadow, I held my new rats Latte and Blackberry up to her cage to gauge her reaction. She puffed up like a porcupine, and tried to lunge and bite them. Later on, I let her go in their cage while I had them out, and she reacted similarly. I think its frustrating for the rat to not be able to confront a stranger, and in Shadow's case, when I let them meet on neutral ground she stopped puffing up and hissing (although she was still pretty rough on the new girls).


It sounds like your intro is going well. Sniffing and following is pretty normal, especially for babies. My babies love to follow my calm girl Latte around, and she really helped them learn to trust people. Introducing them to her was super easy, as I just showed her the babies and she sniffed them once, then left them alone. They, on the other hand, kept trying to climb onto her and jumped all over her. Latte just didn't care at all. 


The hoody method is great for new rats, but I also find that once they get comfortable enough to not freeze when touched, many hyperactive babies will try and escape. So I'll only really do "hoody time" with my girls when they're sleepy. Most rats don't mind being lifted out of their sleeping spot, so I'll sometimes take my girls while they're sleeping and place them into my hoody. Alternatively, you can free-range her some and then do hoody time, so that she's hopefully tired out and ready to rest. If I'm going to do some chores around the house, I might also take out a rat or two in my hoody. As long as I'm moving, they're pretty content to just chill there.


As for handling, going limp and accepting handling calmly will come with time and experience. I've only had one girl go perfectly limp when handled from the start, and she's always been pretty calm. All my other rats have first started out tense and bouncy when handled, and then gradually learned to relax. 

If your rats are getting along well, are you planning on housing them together soon? If your nervous about putting them in a big cage together, it can be helpful to follow the carrier method and first house them in a small travel cage for a few hours/a day to cement their bond.


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## Fueazi (Jul 27, 2017)

I want to put them both together... but the cage Perrie is in are big Terra could squeeze through the bars.. I didn't think of that till I got her home. If you think the hoodie time works best when they're tired what would you recommend doing when shes awake and hyper to get her to trust and be calm with you?

Perrie still doesn't know her name its been months.. I've kinda lacked on teaching her but not petting her. I'm gonna start teaching both of them their names right when I can get some treats for them!



Shadow <3 said:


> Even my bonded rats will nibble and lick each others toes when ones on the outside and the others are inside the cage. It's just their reaction to something new entering their space. I've heard of even bonded rats biting each others toes through the cage bars, so I usually stick to having both my new and old rats play either inside or outside the cage. I've never seen any of my girls go so far as to bite the others toes, but the possibility seems amplified if the rats are strangers.
> 
> 
> Besides, as Coffeebean said, rats can get antsy when a strange rat is right outside their territory. With my previous girl Shadow, I held my new rats Latte and Blackberry up to her cage to gauge her reaction. She puffed up like a porcupine, and tried to lunge and bite them. Later on, I let her go in their cage while I had them out, and she reacted similarly. I think its frustrating for the rat to not be able to confront a stranger, and in Shadow's case, when I let them meet on neutral ground she stopped puffing up and hissing (although she was still pretty rough on the new girls).
> ...


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## Shadow <3 (Jan 25, 2017)

You can buy wire mesh (hardware cloth) to cover your cage in. This is what I had to do in order to have my babies living with my older girls, as the babies can squeeze through the 1in bars on my modified single critter nation (which my adult rats can't squeeze through). 

Here is a before and after picture of my current cage:

Before mesh (note 1in bars spacing):
View attachment 284705


After mesh:
View attachment 284713



Here is a cage I fully meshed:
View attachment 284721


And here is a closeup of the mesh (note how small the space in-between each is):
View attachment 284729


I don't think its really fair on either rat to wait the possible months it may take for the baby to grow into your big cage. Meshing may be a pain, but its worth it. I took me about 3 hours to completely mesh the red cage, but it allowed my 3 month old rats to live with my adult girl. My smallest girl continued to fit through the bars until she was around 8 months old, and waiting that long was not something I was willing to do.

What I would do with a hyper ratty is to free-range in a small space with them. During this time, I train a decent come (mine is a "kissy" noise) by making a certain noise and then luring the rat to me. This is a great trust excersize, as it teaches the rat that approaching you leads to good things (such as treats - once the rat(s) are fully tame I also reward come with bringing my rats to new places or just picking them up, as they like getting to sit on my shoulder). Once the rat is comfortable in the small space, I expand the play area some (I have a small box fort, a medium box fort, and an extra-large one). In this expanded area, I begin to place boxes and other hides. We then work on come in this area as well, and once they master it here I upgrade to my extra-large box fort. In this area I include lots of hiding spots, so its important to me that the rats already associate a certain noise with coming by this point. At this point (and at previous points), I'll do some fun trick training (I've found that my babies pick up on tricks super fast, and nothing is cuter than seeing a baby rat bound back to you with a ball or spin when you point at them), or engage them in play. Many young rats love to hand wrestle (my girl Cookie loves this!), and to do this you just chase them with your hand, ruffle them, and then scurry your hand away from them. My girl Cookie will run after your hand, playfully bite it (this doesn't hurt at all), and then flip herself over when I ruffle her fur. Its adorable and fun to hand wrestle with her! For my other girls that are either too shy or serious to hand-wrestle (I actually have a super "serious" adult girl that tackles the babies if they play in front of her ), I play chasing games like "chase the string" or "chase the cork". For these games, I dangle a empty string or a string with a cork attached in front of my rats, then move it erratically around them. Rats are prey AND predatory animals, and just about every rat I've had will chase a moving string. They especially love when I attach a cork, as then they can work it loose from the string and run off to chew it! XD I've also found that my girls love chasing straws, and one of my girls in particular will watch me write with a pencil, then sneak up on it, pounce, run away, and then do it all over again. Some rats will enjoy certain games more than others, but its worth trying a few different ones (hand wrestling, hand chase, chasing a string, etc.) to see what they like the most. With my older girls, I'll also play "chase", where I'll walk away from them and they'll run after me. When I stop, they try and climb up my leg. But my babies are too skittish for this ATM, so I mainly stick to trick training and hand wrestling.

The main thing is to engage in a positive way with your rat. Whether it be play, accepting treats, trick training, or sleeping in your hoody, all of these activities can bring a positive association to you, and make your rat more than willing to be with you.


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## Fueazi (Jul 27, 2017)

I'll try to do wire mesh! I might have to wait till the 3rd though so I can buy some. For now I let them play together outside of the cages. Terra my little one I found that she doesnt try to run off my shoulders she even lays on mine.. I wish Perrie would do that all she does on my shoulders is try to find ways off.  I feel like I already failed Perrie all she wants to do is explore so much even after a long time of doing it. I'm gonna make a wall of cardboard soon to make a play area as I don't trust any room in my house to ever be fully safe for a free run.



Shadow <3 said:


> You can buy wire mesh (hardware cloth) to cover your cage in. This is what I had to do in order to have my babies living with my older girls, as the babies can squeeze through the 1in bars on my modified single critter nation (which my adult rats can't squeeze through).
> 
> Here is a before and after picture of my current cage:
> 
> ...


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