# Preparing for babies



## twilight (Apr 20, 2007)

My fancy rat, Jade, is pregnant and due around the end of this month. It was a planned birth. Her mate is a fancy blue male named Daddy. Anyway, I have about three places in mind that usually take fancy rat babies.

I've been around for three births, only one ended badly. I really wan't this one to go smoothly. Normally I just put the mom alone in a 20 gallon and put carefresh bedding. I give her tissue (unsented) paper and toliet paper. I also feed her bread soaked in milk (I heard its good?).

Should I give her a box?

Anything else I should do?

Thanks!


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

I think I've read on here that toilet paper/tissue paper can stick to the little babies and cause problems?

Beyond that, I've never been through a birth (yay, boys! :lol: ) so I can't offer much.


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## twilight (Apr 20, 2007)

Hmm...I can see how it would. I've used it with two females and havnt had a problem with it sticking. I have lost one or two babies in both litters, but I dont believe because of that reason.


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## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Tissues & paper towels won't cause the babies to die, it just gets stuck all over them & the placentas during the birth. If you gave it to them a day after birth, it wouldn't be a problem. It's just that the babies come out sticky and the placentas are bloody and juicy. 

More info:

http://www.ratlovers.org/articles/pregnant.html


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## twilight (Apr 20, 2007)

Thanks for that link, very helpful!  Anyone know what to use for a nesting box?


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## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Anything box-like.  Tissue boxes, cardboard shipping boxes, a rubbermaid container, etc.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Are you a registered breeder with pedigreed rats? What's in the rats' lines? Where are they from?


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## OnlyOno (Apr 4, 2007)

the little empty tissue boxes have always been a fave for my rodent mothers (i say rodent cuz i've only had hammie babies, ). i'm excited for you, ratty babies are delightful.


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## fallinstar (Nov 26, 2006)

o0o0o more babies hehe u will have 2 post pics when they are born


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## twilight (Apr 20, 2007)

Well she is in the 20 gallon now, it should be within the next two weeks.  I gave her a box and a bunch of nesting material, she instantly made a nest inside it. She keeps turning the box so I cant see inside it though. :roll: 



> Are you a registered breeder with pedigreed rats? What's in the rats' lines? Where are they from?


 She is not registered, I don't know her lines. I got her from a pet store, it said fancy rat so Im just assuming she is one.


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

'Fancy' rat just means the sort 'fancied' by pet owners, I think, meaning that they can come in pretty colors.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Forensic is correct - they're called "fancy" rats simply because they're pets.

Pet store rats should never, ever be bred. Read this. If you like raising babies and socializing them for hours every day, go ahead and contact a RESCUE and ask to be a foster home for any current, or future, pregnant moms/litters.

In order to get into breeding, you need to educate yourself (most people research for a year or more), contact an accredited breeder, and have them mentor you. At this point, it's obvious you know very little about rats, even in general. You really need to research a LOT.


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## twilight (Apr 20, 2007)

Well, I obviously made a mistake in breeding my other past store rats and Jade. I was unaware it was that bad to do so. I'll admit that. I will also admit I only know the basics of rat care. Thats why I joined this forum. :wink:


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## OnlyOno (Apr 4, 2007)

Night said:


> In order to get into breeding, you need to educate yourself (most people research for a year or more), contact an accredited breeder, and have them mentor you. At this point, it's obvious you know very little about rats, even in general. You really need to research a LOT.


you know most rat breeders start out as rat hobbyists. on all the rat breeder pages i've visited, i've never seen "i mentored under so-and-so for 4 years". i'm just saying, you sound a bit extreme on that just to get an opinion across. i'm sure we can all agree that we would prefer to hear about babies coming from registered breeders, but even they didn't all get their expertise from textbooks.


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## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Yep, I agree with OnlyOno that your attitude is a bit extreme, Night. It's not constructive to say things like, "it's obvious you know very little about rats, even in general," because you know nothing about the original poster aside from the post.

It's certainly perfectly appropriate to point out that pet store rats shouldn't be bred, and the health risks that come from breeding rats of unknown lineage. However, being rude, insulting, and condescending is not acceptable.

Your presence in this community is an asset because of the information you bring, but that attitude is exactly why I don't frequent Goosemoose.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Some of the things she mentioned doing for her rat(s), and some of the things she asked about, were very basic knowledge. People who breed rats need to know a vast amount about rat care in general, and also genetics, health, and husbandry. True, I did assume something about her, and although it was true, I apologize for coming off harsh.

Ono - simply because someone else has made the same mistake in the past, doesn't mean it should be duplicated. In the case of pets and animals in general, acting before thinking or researching, can ultimately be harmful.

For the original poster... paper towels are much better to use for pinkies, since they're much less likely to stick to them like toilet paper does (paper towels are much thicker). Along with that, dairy products shouldn't be given to rats - if they are, it should be a _rare_ treat. Soy milk is much more preferred and recommended. Pregnant/nursing mothers need a lot of extra protein. Get some premium, high-quality cat food such as Innova, Chicken Soup, Solid Gold, or Wellness, and supplement her diet with it. Do *NOT* feed grocery store brands of cat food (Iams, Eukanuba, Science Diet), all are very low quality.

What is she eating currently as a staple diet?


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## ladylady (Apr 5, 2007)

twilight said:


> Well, I obviously made a mistake in breeding my other past store rats and Jade. I was unaware it was that bad to do so. I'll admit that. I will also admit I only know the basics of rat care. Thats why I joined this forum. :wink:


I was weeks away from getting my pet shop ladies preggers when I joined too.
Im glad I didnt there are rats In the Shelter in Aberdeen that have been there form months 
I know its alot harder for some people to get them

The thing that stuck out for me was the amout of time and money required for breeding, personaly I think you eather need to do it or not, you eather know ot you dont.
Good luch with your babies I cant wait to see tha pics


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## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

the cat food is a good idea. i have seen innova and wellness in grocery stores before though and they are all suppiled by the same manufactuer. different recipes but the same suppiler. but perhaps giving information on what to look for in on the ingredients label would be more helpful. unfortunately i don't know what to look for in cat foods for pregnant rat moms. maybe comparing the ingredients lists from the recommended ones to the others you could figure it out. you can get ingredient lists online by googling for them. but perhaps someone on here can help with that as well. or you could just look for the brands that night suggested. i'm a bit more picky and want to know why something is recommended over the other so i can decide exactly which one is the best.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

From Wikipedia because I'm lazy and tired this morning:

_Meat by-products are ground, rendered, and cleaned slaughtered meat carcass parts such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, bones, heads, and intestines (and a small amount of feathers in the case of chicken meat). The terms meat by-products or animal by-products are often used in reference to the ingredients included in commercial pet foods.

*The official definition for meat by-products by the Association Of American Feed Control Officials, Inc. (AAFCO) is:*

"The non-rendered, clean parts, other than meat, derived from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to, lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low temperature fatty tissue, and stomachs and intestines freed of their contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth and hoofs. It shall be suitable for use in animal food. If it bears name descriptive of its kind, it must correspond thereto."

In many cases, by-product meals are derived from "4-D" meat sources -- defined as food animals that have been rejected for human consumption because they were presented to the meat packing plant as "Dead, Dying, Diseased or Disabled." The quality of animal meat by-products also tends to be very inconsistent between batches.

Meat by-products are commonly found in lower-grade pet foods and even many of the larger name brands, including Science Diet (even their prescription diet product line), Purina (both Purina One and Purina Pro Plan), and Iams / Eukanuba. Ingredients listed as "meat, beef, chicken, and/or poultry by-products" on pet food labels are not required to include actual meat, and "rendered meat" on labels can refer to any rendered mammal meat, including dogs and cats.

A new category of pet food typically marketed as holistic, wellness, organic, ultra healthy, and/or simply premium pet food often emphasizes the use of human-grade meat sources only, with no animal meat by-products of any kind. Examples of such pet foods include Flint River Ranch, Wellness Pet Food, Innova, Life's Abundance, Nutro Ultra Holistic, and Pet Promise._

Along with the woes of by-products, 4-D meat, and rendered meat, there's also the fact that low quality brands of dog/cat food use a lot of fillers - corn, for instance. You should never, EVER find corn in your dog/cat food. It's a filler that many dog/cat food companies choose to use - many times it's in the first 1-5 ingredients! 

*Under a typical pet food diet, the average dog (44 lbs) can consume 26 lbs of preservatives a year.*

Here's a good article on pet food ingredients.


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## twilight (Apr 20, 2007)

Thanks, thats good know!  Right now her diet is Rat Delight out of the bin at the pet store. It's got a whole bunch of stuff in it, including those blocks that I read are really good. I reasearch on the internet and I own two rat books. I've had rats since I was very young, I've just learned to do things differently so it comes off as not knowing much.


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Those kind of mixes are very low quality and cheap, honestly. You should look into getting Harlan Teklad lab blocks, and also get into making Suebee's Mix. Along with those as a staple diet, ratties need fresh food everyday (good lettuces, fruits, herbs, et cetera).


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## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

you can get the harlan teklad labs online here http://www.theratshop.com/shop.php?cat=3

It helps a rescue called rattie ratz that is in our area too twilight.


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## twilight (Apr 20, 2007)

I've been using it for years and have yet to have any problems  Though I know its probably not the best food I can buy. What kind of bag brands are good?


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## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Harlan Teklad is the best. You have to buy it online, most people go through Kim's Ark Rescue (all proceeds from sales go right back to helping rats). The 2018 formula is the best. As for Suebee's Mix, you can find the recipe for it here.


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

http://ratguide.com/care/nutrition/diet.php

Mazuri is another one you can buy at Petsmart if your like me and bad at ordering things via interweb on time.


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## reachthestars (Feb 27, 2007)

Or you can feed a high quality dog food and supplement with Subee's mix .


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## Rodere (Feb 26, 2007)

As far as breeders and mentoring.. I know that most breeders are willing to mentor someone. A good friend of mine in WV is being mentored by a very good rattery and I myself am being mentored as well. Having a mentor when you are researching breeding isn't uncommon or useless. You can get a whole lot of information that they've learned without having to experience it yourself, and that comes in handy when they've made the same mistakes you might!

And Twi, if all goes well and you have some babies, please don't give them to a petstore.. 'Fancy' rats in a petstore only mean that they are better liked because of their color, markings, or ear type. And if they don't consider all of your babies to be fancy rats, they might go into the feeder bin.

You should only breed pedigreed rats from highly documented and researched lines and under the mentoring of an accredited breeder. At least by doing so you know how healthy they should be, approximately how long they should live, if there are any behavioral problems in the lines, and how good their personality should be. Not to mention what they should look like.


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