# Despite antibiotics, rats still wheeze?



## killybutt (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi ya'll! Well in January my boy Kotsu aspirated peanut butter, wheezed profusely and we took him to the vet. The vet gave us a big 'ol bottle of Baytril antibiotic and after we treated him, he stopped wheezing... for about a month.
Over the past two months both him AND his brother have developed wheezing problems, which we attempted to cure with rounds of Baytril. It seems the wheezing would go away, and then randomly reappear, especially if the rats are playing, but some times for no apparent reason at all. At this point, both rats have gone through two rounds of medication (both for 14 days at a time) since this time and we've been giving him about twice the amount of antibiotic as needed just to try to knock it out. It's really strange because, some times they don't wheeze for days, and then the wheezing pops right up again, sometimes just for a few minutes. They don't exhibit any symptoms like lethargy, and sneezing only occurs infrequently which I believe is normal. They have plenty of energy and a great appetite, but the wheezing persists.
We have them in a Ferret Nation with cardboard for flooring and aspen for litter.
Does this sound like myco? Or an allergy? Can the rats reinfect one-another when the rounds of antibiotics stop?
I am considering taking them back to the vet, its just that we still have half-a-bottle of Baytril and another visit will cost over a hundred dollars. Hoping to find answers here. Thank you.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

general consensus is that 14 days is the bare minimum for them to be on the antibiotics... 21 is preferred, or at least a week after the very last symptom has cleared. baytril on its own is not nearly as effective as it is in combination with another antibiotic like doxycycline. also, baytril it does have a fairly short expiry date, especially if it's mixed with water or a flavored syrup. check that it hasn't passed yet.

if they were completely clear while they were on the antibiotics, and the wheezing is back now that they're off them... even if it is only intermittent, it might be best to give them one longer round with a double checked dose, and look into alternatives if that doesn't help.

also, lots of vets surprisingly seriously underdose with baytril... can you give us their weights and the concentration of the baytril?


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## killybutt (Nov 22, 2010)

The Baytril expires in June. The rats are roughly 3 pounds a piece and we were prescribed to give them only 0.01 ml each, but we've been giving them about 1 ml anyway on account of how teeny the syringe is and how anything smaller than that is essentially nothing... we will go ahead and give them another round for extra time, but do you know if doxycycline is available for purchase under the counter?


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

3... pounds? unless you've got some special genetically monster rats, your rats are seriously overweight... i do say a diet is also in order. 

i need the concentration (% or mg/ml) of the baytril in order to calculate the right dose.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

killybutt said:


> The Baytril expires in June. The rats are roughly 3 pounds a piece and we were prescribed to give them only 0.01 ml each, but we've been giving them about 1 ml anyway on account of how teeny the syringe is and how anything smaller than that is essentially nothing... we will go ahead and give them another round for extra time, but do you know if doxycycline is available for purchase under the counter?


3 lbs will be the largest rats ever...most boys are a bit more than a lb.

And this is a 790 gram obese boy when he arrived...he's less than 2 lbs and the biggest rat I have personally seen with all my years of rescue.










OK so you are basically OD"g them on potentiallyexpired baytril? Most oral baytril expires in 3-4 weeks, when did you get this bottle? Antibiotics are given in specific dosages for a reason. Think of abs when you are sick. Take this pill 3 times a day...if you miss a dose and you're close to the next one, skip it and continue, etc...same deal. You are basically giving your rat 10 of those pills each time!

What does your baytril look like? Is it clear like alcohol or slightly coloured and not clear? What concentration is your baytril? (mg/ml).

Lets give you an example of how exacting medicating SHOULD be....

Rat 1 is 500 grams, his baytril is 22.7 mg/ml, you dose at 10 mg/kg...so his dose twice a day would be .22 cc each time. You can go up to .25 but you don't give 1 whole ml at a time! That is a whole syringe.

This is the difference between .02 cc and .2 cc (or ml, since they are the same)


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## killybutt (Nov 22, 2010)

Eek! Major typo, I meant to put 1.3 pounds. Also, upon second look at the image for the syringe, we were giving them .1 ml, not 1 ml. The Baytril has a banana flavoring agent and was perscribed in January, but the label says it won't expire until the middle of June. Does that help? Sorry for the confusion, I'm not very good with numbers x.x


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

killybutt said:


> Eek! Major typo, I meant to put 1.3 pounds. Also, upon second look at the image for the syringe, we were giving them .1 ml, not 1 ml. The Baytril has a banana flavoring agent and was perscribed in January, but the label says it won't expire until the middle of June. Does that help? Sorry for the confusion, I'm not very good with numbers x.x


Sadly I still need the mg/ml on the bottle.










The flavoring agent is likely rendered your baytril expired, well expired. the only baytril compounced that I know of to last that long is injectable but it is clear and very thin...whereas I assume yours is yellow and a little thick?
They will never get better on this stuff 

Doxycycline cannot be bought under the counter, as it is an antibiotic. Sorry.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

yup... flavored baytril won't last longer than two months.  that is the serious drawback of it - it usually has to be compounded in huge amounts... the lowest my vet can do is 30ml which is about $50 and i end up throwing a ton of it away because it expires so quick. only made that mistake once. i use injectable now. but even that doesn't keep very long - i find it gets contaminated very easily and turns stringy/cloudy and needs thrown away.

i really don't recommend buying antibiotics online or utc - you really don't know if you're getting what they say you're getting. under or overdosing antibiotics is dangerous, so if the pills are actually less than what they advertise... you are putting your rat at risk.  doxycyline is a very versatile and very cheap antibiotic, though - you can even use the human grade pills crushed up in some water. my boyfriend has a ton doxycycline prescriptions for occasional cystic acne, so in absolute dire situations i know i could always steal some from him.


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## killybutt (Nov 22, 2010)

just a quick update, the boys are now on a regimen of .3 ml of baytril and .4 ml of doxycycline, every 12 hours for the next two weeks. hopefully that should knock it out  *crossing fingers* thanks to everyone who commented!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Good luck! I hope they feel better soon


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