# Why Muricide?



## RedResilience (Feb 4, 2014)

Why do domestic rats kill domestic mice? And why do they eat them afterwards? Does this happen because they aren't fed enough, or is it simply their nature?

I guess I want to know if it can be prevented.


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## Maddie (Jan 13, 2014)

It's part if their nature. Someone else will have to answer this because I'm not sure, but I think smaller critters are a food source for wild rats?


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## Dovahkiin (Sep 24, 2013)

In nature rats eat mice, and so domestic rats will eat domestic mice because they are wired to do so.


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## alexn (Sep 30, 2012)

Yup, nature. Food and removing competition for other food in one go.

Edit: please don't tell me you're asking this after putting mice and rats together..?

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## RedResilience (Feb 4, 2014)

I'd never do that... My mouse escaped and was murdered by my rat... I'm offended. I may not be the best pet parent but I would never do something like that...


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

This is not always the case... I put Fuzzy Rat in with with some mice when she was a pup and the mice were also very young... Quite frankly they ignored each other... I sometimes set up a tub on the floor to let the mice play in and I would leave them treats... Fuzzy Rat would jump into the tub to steal the mice's treats, but never even seemed to notice the mice.....


On the other hand I had a part wild rat that I had on my shoulder while holding a white mouse she charged down my arm, I turned my hand in the very last split second and took a very nasty bite, most likely meant for the mouse.... That rat was a particularly vicious animal and she attacked that mouse with such a fury and bit me so deeply that it's hard to explain just how enraged she looked... It really seemed a whole lot more primal than just looking for a snack. 

Our current rat Max chases the wild mice around the house sometimes, but doesn't ever seem to catch them, I think it's just her excuse for knocking over things I like, so I'm not sure it's more than a game...

Wild rats kill mice... part wild rats kill mice... some domestic rats kill mice... some don't.


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## RedResilience (Feb 4, 2014)

I know Ratty is more independent, and he probably has more primal urges than a rat that, say, was raised by humans from a young age (and raised with mice at a young age)... 
I know he didn't do it on purpose.... But he killed her... Then he tried to lunge at me and scared me so much I screamed... I just wonder if he really does have more of a vicious side than normal...


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

It's just instinct. They'll go for small birds, too. I remember when a member's parakeet was killed by her rats a few years back. Accidents happen, but you should always be very careful to keep predators and prey separated by a sturdy cage... or, better yet, in a separate room.


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## alexn (Sep 30, 2012)

RedResilience said:


> I'd never do that... My mouse escaped and was murdered by my rat... I'm offended. I may not be the best pet parent but I would never do something like that...


You'd be surprised at some of the threads I've seen in the past. It wasn't beyond the realm of probability that you had done.

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## Urithrand (Feb 12, 2008)

It's much the same situation as with cats and rats. They're naturally a predator / prey combo but they can be socialised together. Still wouldn't ever leave my cat alone in a room when I rats are out though.


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## JudeWriley (Aug 1, 2007)

RedResilience said:


> My mouse escaped and was murdered by my rat...


I just want to point out that your mouse wasn't "murdered" by your rat. Murder implies there was some sort of malice involved. (That's like saying that cows murder grass, or that birds murder worms, etc.) Your rat was just doing what it was programmed to do. If he's lunging at you and stuff that could mean that something is wrong (but often fixable!). Does he have a cagemate? Has he seen a vet for a checkup recently?


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Actually... when my part wild rat went after the mouse I was holding, she looked furious.... I mean mentally deranged, out of control, my best friend is in bed with my girlfriend - get the gun - kind of furious. 

She was normally such a sweet rat, but when she lost it, she turned real ugly real fast and without warning.

As to birds... when Fuzzy Rat was a pup she approached our conure with interest, the conure bit her on the head... That's when I realized just how fast rats can react... there was a terrible awk-squeek and the parrot flew off bleeding from inside it's beak... Fuzzy Rat bit his tongue as he was snapping down on her head.... After that Fuzzy Rat hated that bird, once getting hold of his foot and trying to pull him through the cage bars and always stalking the bird if they happened to be on the same surface. It lead to some really weird situations where the bird would approach Fuzzy Rat and Fuzzy Rat would hunker down and even charge the bird.... If rats could fly that bird would not have been long for life... 

Oddly, birds aren't stupid... he's never attacked another rat. Amelia is afraid of just about everything and runs for cover when he shrieks but Max still wants to make friends... We've had a few close calls when both rat and bird tried to get on my shoulder at the same time, but I let the parrot and a rat get close once.... never again!


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## RedResilience (Feb 4, 2014)

They were in a separate room... About as far apart as they could get from each other...  It's not like I let them play together or even get close to each other. I know rats kill mice but I just never thought it would actually happen... I just thought maybe domestic ones were different... Now Ratty is suddenly cage aggressive and has lunged at both me and my sister...


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## RedResilience (Feb 4, 2014)

Thank you, Rat Daddy... You seem to be the only one actually answering my question and not just accusing me of things. And yes my rat has been to the vet four times in the month I've had him (mites). He will have a cage mate once I introduce them and put chicken wire around the cage for less bar spacing. I'm not some horrible person that let my mouse get ripped apart (tell me my rat didn't murder my mouse when there was blood everywhere and parts of her completely torn off) because I'm sick or ignorant or a bad pet owner. I didn't do anything wrong and I refuse to let you all make me believe that. I already feel bad enough, I just wanted to know why and if some rats are more aggressive than others regarding muricide...


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## Pilot. (Feb 11, 2014)

Yeah, sometime it happens! I wouldn't necessarily call it murder, as it's an animal and it's in their nature. But it's still very sad what happened and I feel very sorry for you. I live out in the country and this winter there have been quite a few mice that the cats have killed (rescued one!) and now that I have my babies I really hope I don't have to get into that situation. Also, I think the cage aggression will curb when he has a cage mate. I'm not positive so don't quote me on it though! I would just let him have time to calm down and let those wild instincts fade a bit before trying to touch him again. Very very sorry about Esmerelda though. Best of luck to you and your pets


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## JoshDeMott2010 (Aug 25, 2007)

The cage aggression could stem from the way you look at your rat after it's actions... Rats are intuned to body language and your body language may show how scared or tramatized you may be... Just try to look past what happened, as hard as it may be, and move forward with your rat. He isn't evil or anything just an animal that you have as a pet. Rats are very sufficient hunters and can kill things quickly and effectively without warning in many cases. It's best to understand your pets instincts and do your best to provide successful situations. You didn't do anything wrong in my opinion accidents happen and the animal kingdom will always have a food chain and territory instincts. Give your rat some love and a cage mate spend as much time with the cage mate as possible and the other rat may get a little jealous. Let us know what happens if you use Rat Daddies Immersion techniques.


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## RedResilience (Feb 4, 2014)

@Pilot: You mean wild mice before? Thanks. I tried to touch him today and he half bit me... I know he wants to play but I just have to wait another day or two, I can't right now...

@JoshDemott2010: That's true.  I still love him and want to play with him but I haven't had the ability to right now... I have another rat named Lucky who is half the size of Ratty... Once when I put the cages next to each other Ratty puffed up and got all angry so it scared me... I put the cages back next to each other last night (although a little farther than before) and it seemed okay... So you're saying spend a lot of time with Lucky in front of Ratty? Thanks.


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