# My situation, your suggestions



## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Greetings, I'm from Italy, here we don't have many fancy rats breeder, in the whole country we have just like 3/4 of them and, of course, none close to me.
I always liked rats and at last I decided to try with 2 feeders.
I named them Vodka and Guacamole, both male.
To tame them my system consist in slowly take my hand with some food in a place they can see, not too close to them but still in the cage, and wait for them to come close. Guacamole never really come to check me, Vodka does, he sometimes come close to my hand, he totally ignore the food but smell my fingers (it tickles), today I felt like he was about to bite me, I think I felt his teeth and instinctively took my hand away, not movin fast tho.
The cage is close to my desk where I spend most of the time... I think that this way they will see me all the time and maybe get used to it.
That's pretty much all, I really wanna tame them and maybe, in the future, teach them something (I saw videos on youtube of rats fetching things and doin other tricks), am I doin something wrong? What should I do?
Thanks


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## renegaderob18 (Apr 7, 2011)

Feeder rats will take time to adjust to there setting due to there old situation. Keep doing what you are doing and if you can take them out of the cage and spend time with them, which will help. It is just gonna take extra time and patience due to there fear of being feeder rats.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Thanks, I will do that 
Also, they were fighting just now, how do I know if they were playing or fighting for real? Should I... Ehm... I don't know the word but should I take them to the vet to cut theyre testicles?


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Good news, I guess.
Vodka is finally accepting food from my hands, not any kind of food tho, but still...
I call his name when I offer him food.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

He run in his cage when he grab the treat tho, I think it's still good, am I right? At least he "trust" me.


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## renegaderob18 (Apr 7, 2011)

Getting the rats fixed would be up to you. Some people do and some people don't. As far as the fighting, it may be them wrestling. If there is no blood then you are most likely ok. My girls wrestle everyday. You here some squealing and for a little, but then after they are done they lay on or near one another. Keep feeding them like you are, because it sounds like you are making progress. Remember time and patience.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Yay! Thanks! I also have an idea, to make them used to my smell I could rip a used tshirt and give it to them so they can play or use it in the home? Feelin that smell all day long could help?
Any suggestion for treats would be more than welcome, I'm havin a hard time finding something Vodka REALLY like, he eat almost everything I put in the food bowl, but so far he only took one or two things from my hand and in the food bag I don't have many of those.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

I think I made a progress, Vodka actually let me touch him, not for a long time but long enough for me to pet him, he don't even run away when he don't want it, he just go in his house calmly.
I also almost took him in my hand, he was goin to let me, I didn't just because I feel like it's too early to take him in my hand.
Friday I will have to change the litter and I'm planning to put also pieces of my tshirt (used, for the smell) to make them used to it even more.


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## Qku. (Apr 29, 2011)

A used T-shirt might be a good idea, yeah. Plus, they'll like something to make a nest out of. What I did when I got my first rat was just stick my hand in the cage in the beginning, just to let her smell it and get used to the environment without being too forward. I'd try and pet her here and there. After a day or three, after she's used to her cage, I picked her up and stuck her into my (loose) sweater while I was sitting at my desk, so she could get used to my smell and to being close to me. After that, I'd try to do that every day, even if she didn't really like it, because she was so skittish and shy. I tried to use the same sweater for a week or two when I picked her up, so she didn't have to get used to a whole new smell over and over.

As for treats, they're probably still a little scared of you, but they'll get used to it. What I use for standard treats are raisins, dried half cranberries and (small parts of) dog treats. They really like those. Banana and apple slices are a more fruity alternative and if they did something really nice or need comforting I give them yoghurt drops. You should be able to find those at pet shops, but they're quite sugary. Another thing my girls almost fight over is soy milk. I feed it to them through a seringe without needle, it's good practice for when they have to take medicine that way too. But it's very fatty, so make it an exception.

I'm only a newbie rat owner myself, only had my two rats for little over half a year  But I thought you might be interested anyway.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Of course I am! 
I had Vodka and Guacamole for like 4/5 days now and you already know how far I went with them, knowing that what would you do if you were me? You'd try to take them in my sweater already or you'd wait a little more?
Also, what's the best time ofthe day to interact with them?


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Sorry for double posting but:
While I was holding my hand in the cage Vodka came to smell me, while doin so he opened his mouth and I felt his teeth, he was doin very soft but I took my hand away istinctively.
Was him trying to bite me or something like that?


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## Qku. (Apr 29, 2011)

Well, if they're coming over to sniff your hand, I think it'd be a good time to pick them up and put them in your sweater, yeah. They don't seem agressive or antisocial, so I think it will be fine. Keep a lot of treats ready on your desk for when you sit down with them, you want them to associate your presence and body with yummy treats  Also, don't be alarmed when they don't take the treats immediatly, often they're too busy sniffing around and getting used to everything to eat. Well, that's the case with my rats anyway. It might take them a few minutes to settle down, too. Oh, and maybe another tip.. When I first took Foelie (my first and most skittish rat) into my sweater she pooped.. It's a stress reaction. So keep a towel or something inside your sweater just in case :' )

I don't think your Vodka was trying to bite you, often they kind of nibble a bit on your finger to see if you are a treat, heh. It can be they nibble a bit harder than they meant to and it can turn into a bite, but actually the best reaction then is _not_ to pull away, but too "eep" like a rat, so they understand that was too hard. I've never really managed to do that myself, my urge to pull away when they bite is too great, but I still try to "eep".


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

How much does it hurt when they bite? It's acceptable or it hurt like a sonnofa*****?
Also, since my first language is not english I'm finding it hard to understand where exactly I should put him inside the sweater 
About the poop, I had that in mind, it's obvious they will do that.
As soon as they are tamed litter training will be the first thing I guess.

*warning: please do not curse in posts. this is an all ages appropriate forum. thanks - jaguar*


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## Qku. (Apr 29, 2011)

It depends. They can bite without breaking the skin, so that doesn't really hurt, and they can bite and draw blood. It can hurt, but it's normally not worse than accidentally cutting your finger with scissors. Then there's the agressive bite.. I've never seen one of those, none of my rats has ever been agressive. That bite can even be dangerous and go to the bone, but a rat will normally make it pretty obvious they're angry before they bite like that.

Oh, and about the sweater, I just take a sweater that's tight around the waist or bind something around it to make it tighter and put them in front of my belly so I have like a pouch, if that sounds logical.. You can also put them in a pocket, but mine always jump out.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Mhm... Ok, I think I understood, thanks Tomorrow I'll try that.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

What's the opposite of progress? Because I'm on it. As today Vodka seem to be less incline to let me touch him and as I tried to take him he ran away in his little house.
He still try to see if my fingers are treats too.


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## ratchilla (May 12, 2011)

It seems like you're doing everything right. Don't fret. It can take weeks and in some cases, months for an animal to trust you. It just depends on the animal. There are even cases when no matter what you do, an animal won't take to the owner, but you've got a long time to work on trust with your little guys. It's only been a few days since you've had them. I know it is hard and impatience comes easily because you want it to happen now, but give it at least 2-3 weeks before you feel you're getting nowhere. Believe me, you're going to start feeling as if they are never going to like you and before you know it, you'll completely forget about that and be smitten with your boys as they will be with you. 

My rats test bite me, even now. I've never been bitten hard by one of my rats but it can happen and as Qku said, be dangerous. If yours hasn't tried yet, just be cautious, but it doesn't seem like they are showing aggression. Zara loves to bite my toes, especially in socks, but she has a thing for feet. Keep doing what you're doing. If you can get them out, wrap them in a shirt, and walk around with them. I'd do that with mine for 5 minutes or as long as they tolerate it. It can help the bonding process.


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## ratchilla (May 12, 2011)

Also, here is an excellent read. http://www.ratforum.com/index.php/topic,21404.0.html


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Thank you a lot ratchilla, abou the shirt wrapping walk, I'll do that later maybe, meanwhile I'll read that link, thanks a lot, you've been very encouraging


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## Qku. (Apr 29, 2011)

Oh, I've had Foelie for over half a year now and she's still rather cold towards me compared to Mar, my second rat. There have been a few periods in which she seemed to accept me better, and periods in which the opposite happened and she for instance bit me quite often. Up to two weeks ago she had a bad period. Easily irritated, jumpy, hardly giving affection or reacting to mine.. and now she seems to have one of her better ones, I even petted her almost to sleep the other day and she acts curious and playful towards me. 
It can take time and it goes up and down sometimes, but your rats seem to show pretty good signs for such new rats, indeed.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Really? That's good, I think I'm goin to make a video of how they react to me and upload it, would that help?


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## ratchilla (May 12, 2011)

You are welcome, arkindal. 

About the video, do what you feel is neccessary. If you want to show it, feel free. I'm not sure we could give a lot of help right at this moment, as we said it's a wait and see time right now. But if you want to share them, that's okay too.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

I'll wait then...
By the way today I had a bit of a disappointment. I am planning to build a nice cage, a big one. My idea was to make it as tall as I am but today I found out that I can't, that would cost too much apparently...
So it's goin to be 40x70 CM and 1 M tall... Which should be 15.748x27.559 inches and 39.37 inches tall.
Still sound big enough tho.


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## renegaderob18 (Apr 7, 2011)

It is a big enough cage. That will be plenty of room. As for your rats nipping at your hand your smelling them, My 4 girls all do it. I stick my fingers through the cage daily to say hi and they all come up like they are going to bite, but they just lick the fingers and nibble in a way to say hi back. I also give them food through the cage bars, so they know the difference between me sticking my finger in there and me giving them food. They are very curious like most female rats, but are very tame, because I get them out of the cage everyday to spend time with.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

renegaderob18 said:


> they all come up like they are going to bite, but they just lick the fingers and nibble in a way to say hi back


That's cute  
I don't feel like waiting to see what Vodka really wanna do tho for now


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## ratchilla (May 12, 2011)

Getting any better?


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Nope, a friend of mine came to visit, I told him that they are not dangerous and not bite but to leave them alone because I'm still taming them, told him he can let them smell him but not to open the cage then I went to the kitchen because I was cooking.
While I was in the kitchen he poked the cage a lot, passed his finger on the bars doin noise, opened the cage, tried to touch them, poked the little house where they have the nest and in the end Vodka bit him.
I decided to let them chill out not touching them for few days.


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## CiCe (May 19, 2011)

arkindal said:


> Sorry for double posting but:
> While I was holding my hand in the cage Vodka came to smell me, while doin so he opened his mouth and I felt his teeth, he was doin very soft but I took my hand away istinctively.
> Was him trying to bite me or something like that?


This is a good question. My rattie girls, when they were new, would always come to my hands, feet, or other place of skin and do what I call a 'test nibble'. From what I gather that they did afterward made me feel like they are trying to see if they can trust you with these little nibbles and they are never too hard. Keep your hand next to him the next time he nibbles and see what happens. After a couple times of my first Dumbo doing that to me, she instantly became my best friend  If they do end up being hard, though, you should immediately retreat. Hopes this helps, and your progress with them is astounding for feeders.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

What if I wear gloves when they do the "test nibble"?


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Ratchilla said:


> Also, here is an excellent read. http://www.ratforum.com/index.php/topic,21404.0.html


I'm starting to think to try the forced socialization, I guess it's the fastest way and the more secure maybe.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

The question is... We are almost in summer... I dont really feel like wearing a sweater or a hoodie, can I just keep the rat in the towel?


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## ratchilla (May 12, 2011)

Sure and wear it like a sling around your neck. Do whatever works for you.

One of my rats has a thing for feet and toes. I don't mind that she chases or follows me around non-stop but sometimes she'd attack my toes a little to hard (bite) for comfort. I would just bend over, tap her by the head or on the back with my index finger and use a stern "no." Honestly, within 2 days she stopped. She has the occassional relapse, but I would just reinforce what I initially taught her and I don't have a problem. I never tapped her harder than to really get her attention but it worked. 

I'm not sure if that will work for you or not. Zara was already sweet and loved on me by that point. However, you need to teach them 'manners' regardless. Just like ferrets love to bite and play, you teach them that they can't bite and play with you like that. Your skin isn't as thick as their species. 

As far as gloves are concerned. If they are biting and hard, then for now I would suggest wearing them. If they aren't and it is actually just test nibbles, you want them to get used to your skin. That is what they associate it will and that is what you want from them as far as 'nibbles' and not flat out bites. It's difficult because with nervous or scared rats you don't know what you are going to get from them.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

I see...
Would be ok to take the towel on my lap with Vodka wrapped in it? I'm thinking about taming one and when I'm done try the other one.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

We just called our first 30 minutes session of first socialization over.
I won't lie, I had a very hard time catchin him in the towel, he squeeze a **** lot when I catch him but eventually I managed to take him and make a "nest" like thing with the towel, I took him on my lap, close to my belly. After just 15 minutes he seemed already less scared, for the whole time I talked to him. Well not really the whole time, I sometime stopped to read things.
I also scratched his back and snuggled a bit.
After 30 minutes he was trying to explore the outside of the towel already.
Note: I started the count of minutes when I sat, not when I started the catch attempts.
In the end I placed him back in the cage and offered him pop corn, he smelled it and walked away without it (I wasn't expectin him to take it but I tried anyway as the "guide" suggest).
I took pictures, I'll try to upload them now.
Oh, interesting fact: He didn't poo and, I think, didn't pee either in the towel.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

By arkindal at 2011-05-20








By arkindal at 2011-05-20








By arkindal at 2011-05-20

Isn't he totally adorable?


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## Zhaneel (Sep 1, 2010)

Oh, what a sweet little face! He's so adorable!

Sounds like everything went very well. Keep at it and I'm sure they'll be craving your affection in no time!


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Zhaneel said:


> Oh, what a sweet little face! He's so adorable!
> 
> Sounds like everything went very well. Keep at it and I'm sure they'll be craving your affection in no time!


I hope so!
Just to know, with this system is sure that they'll start to get used to me and start to like me?


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## ratchilla (May 12, 2011)

Absolutely wonderful, Ark! Great to hear that your first session went well. Find a treat he likes then so it's even more rewarding for him.

No system has a 100% guarantee because every rat and their personality is different. You can only hope that with the correct stimulation and trying to befriend him that they accept you and it works. 

However, with that aside, the fact that they sat with you and displayed curiosity in their surroundings is a good start.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Ratchilla said:


> However, with that aside, the fact that they sat with you and displayed curiosity in their surroundings is a good start.


Nice! 
I have no idea what I could give them as a treat...
Carrots are fine? I could try that...


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## ratchilla (May 12, 2011)

Carrots are good, yes, if your rat likes them. Honestly, from my understanding and research, rats can take in a lot of otherwise 'unhealthy' foods and still tolerate them fine. Just do it in moderation (meaning not too much and not too often). I usually try to stay away from the really bad stuff, but if I need to get my rats to take medicine or if I'm trying to bond with them, I'm more likely to offer the things they absolutely love and go gaga for then just a normal healthy treat. 

You can even try some cereals. Mine love the marshmellows in lucky charms. You can even break it in half and split it up between them.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

I'll try cereals and carrots, maybe a LITTLE piece of cheese.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Second session today, it went better during the catch phase, I manages to catch him in no time compared to yesterday.
Today he pooped in the towel tho, probably yesterday he did it while I was catchin him...
Like yesterday I talked and scrtched/cuddled him and after a while he was gettin curious about the surrounding, placed him back in the age and offered treat, he ignored it again.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

I took 2 videos today with Vodka bein on the towel on my lap, in this video he's enjoying a pop corn I gave him before:
http://youtu.be/CbvViAx7fuM
In this other video is just me pettin him
http://youtu.be/1H08TgkJ3Do

Both videos were taken after about 25 minutes after the "catch".
I'm sorry for the very low quality.


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## CiCe (May 19, 2011)

My goodness you have one good looking rat there  And about the glove for the nibbles I'm not sure. I've never tried it. After so long of feeling their nibbles and licks I kind of got used to it and didn't notice nibbles as much lol : / Sorry I can't be of more help.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

It's ok, I think I'll just try to get used to it.
Today I took him out again, he took food from my hand and ate it (not all, he just took few bites).
He let me pet him every day now and apparently he don't mind it, dunno if he like it tho.
Today he also tried to explore out of the towel much more the the other days.
I really hope we can bond soon, I can't wait to teach him how to use the litter to let him hang out with me out of the cage


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## ratchilla (May 12, 2011)

He's looking great. The fact that he's trying to explore is a good sign, it usually means they are getting more comfortable with his surroundings. What is even better is he is letting you pet him without any aggressive reaction! Fantastic. He isn't trying to curl up or bite your finger as you do, you may have the beginnings of a very good friendship right there. 

That is Vodka, right? How is Guacamole doing?


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Guacamola looks healthy but I wanna tame them one by one, for now I decided to tame Vodka because he is more curious and Guacamole is a really shy guy.
I hope that once Vodka is tamed and friendly with me Guacamole will be more incline to be tamed.


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## Qku. (Apr 29, 2011)

I don't really have any experience with that situation, but to be honest I think it's better to take them both out. You're giving one rat a lot more attention than the other at the moment, and I think it's a little sad to leave out Guacamole, especially since he's shy already. Maybe you should wait for another opinion, but I suggest you handle Guacamole next time for a while, see if he can be picked up, and then take them out both at a time. They can give each other support, at least I had the feeling my shy rat became more open when I took her out with my social rat at the same time. They also have a friend to hang on to when they're uncomfortable, or a playmate when they're comfortable, instead of just a whole new environment.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

I see your point, don't really know if you are right or wrong...
But it'll be hard to handle both of them at the same time


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

I think today he licked my finger, just for a moment, but he did it... No idea why.
Also, no poop on the towel.
I took a video again.
He kept exploring all over the towel, almost got inside my tshirt (tickled as **** my armpit).
(Will upload the video soon).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGMLWKYXJUI

Also, when I took him back in the cage I offered pop corn, he accepted it, sort of, just took it, didn't ate.


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## CiCe (May 19, 2011)

My goodness he's a large boy isn't he?  I think how much you are able to touch him in this video is fantastic. He didn't seem phased at all, and I was never able to pet that much of my girlies lol. Mostly because they had no interest in my cuddles and too much energy!  I think that it's a good idea to be taking one rat out at a time, but you may want to spend a few hours a week with Guacamole, just paying him a little attention too. That may be a better plan than just ignoring him until Vodka is done.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Ok I will try that.
By the way even if I am able to pet him like that he still doesn't let me take him, I still have to catch him with a towel.
And I don't really know if he's enjoying the cuddles anyway...


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## Qku. (Apr 29, 2011)

He doesn't really have to enjoy it yet, the fact that he accepts it is already a pretty good sign. And to be honest, he looks like he doesn't mind in the slightes and even kind of likes it.
How do you pick him up and how does he react when you try? I always pet them a little before I pick mine up, to prevent them from being startled. But, you know, some rats never really like to be picked up.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

I remove the hiding spots from the cage, take the towel and get close to him, he usually run to an angle, i pick him up there. He always try to run away from it


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## Qku. (Apr 29, 2011)

Maybe the towel is a little intimidating? Have you tried picking him up with your hands? Just pet them a little so you don't scare them.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

I tried to pick him up once he's already on me, a little before the last video i tried to take him with my hands, he didn't let me do it
i'll try pet him a little before taking him next time


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## ratchilla (May 12, 2011)

Instead of picking him up with one hand have you tried to scoop him with two hands underneath his feet? This provides maximum support and may help alleviate any stress.

I can pick up both of my rats without any real issues but one is still hesitant of it and she will grab on anything nearby to prevent it (particularly the cage). She's much easier to pick up with a scoop than one hand around the belly. The other even while climbing is so trustful, she will literally release anything she has a hold of if she feels my hand go around her. Sometimes I have to grab her quick to ensure she doesn't fall by releasing too fast.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Yes I tried that too, he wasn't ok with that either 
Meh, step by step I'll hit that point too hopefully.


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## ratchilla (May 12, 2011)

Wasn't okay like tried to bite or wasn't okay and tried to avoid?


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Ratchilla said:


> Wasn't okay like tried to bite or wasn't okay and tried to avoid?


Tried to avoid, Vodka never tried to bite me in an angry way. He used to try to nibble test me when I placed my hand in the cage, he came close, smelled and tried to see if he could bite.
He bit a friend of mine tho once, but because he was being an idiot.
Also, when the cage is close Vodka came to me when I place my hand near the bars and smell me, but he go away when I open it.


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## ratchilla (May 12, 2011)

Avoiding isn't unusual if it isn't something they aren't used too. Have you tried to push the issue slowly? By that I mean picking him up anyway without the towel, just really slowly by creeping your fingers under his belly?


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Nope, that may do the trick?


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## ratchilla (May 12, 2011)

It has been a month since you've gotten them. You need to introduce new stuff sooner or later. It's how I worked with my girls. Obviously don't go flying in at them  but there should be some trust established at this point for you to do it slowly. It may even make getting them out of the cage less stressful.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Ok thanks, I'll try that


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Picked him up with my hands yesterday, he wasn't happy, tried to escape all the time, but then he just chilled on my lap on the towel as always, we've been together for one hour yesterday. Sometimes i tried to pick him up with my hand and with my hands (both ways), I hope that, doin this, will make him used to that.
http://www.youtube.com/user/arkindal?feature=mhee
Yesterday he was hiding behind under my hand, I think it's a sign of trust, am I right? I mean, if he wanna hide from me then why hiding like that with my hand?
I'm enjoying taking those videos


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Hi guys! 
Today something new happened, he tried to bite EVERYTHING.
He started with my hand, I was a bit afraid so I took my hand away, then he tried with my arm, I was ok with that so I tried to see what he was goin to do, he didn't actually bite it, just felt what was it. He did it with other things too... My chair, the towel, my tshirt...
But I was curious to understand why if anyone have any idea.
Also, I managed to put him on my shoulder, he chilled there for few minutes then went back on my lap.


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## bubs95 (Jun 4, 2011)

Sounds like grooming, hes trying to clean you  They usually groom each other but I've had my boys gently scrape their teeth on my hand and lick. Its usually a sign of affection or sometimes rats just love to do it! 

With my scared rats to make them comfortable I let them free roam. Find a room thats secure without cables and things they will chew/destroy everywhere, set the cage down sit next it on the floor and watch. At first if they are scared it may take up to 30 minutes before they come out but they will. It took mine 15 mins to step out and then he wouldn't go too far from the cage. After a few days he came up to me sniffing, and a couple after that he was climbing all over me!
I would offer him treats (mine love yogurt drops and chocolate) even though sometimes he wouldn't take it. He would run around everywhere really happy. Just make sure you have a closed room and no way for them to get out. Also I never took him out or put him back, he just walked out and went back when he was done, so make sure you have an hour to spare. 2 weeks later hes happy to be on me and around me but still doesn't like to be picked up.
Good luck! I would like to see the other ratty


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

So I just set them free and close the cage back when they are done?
I'll try that today


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## bubs95 (Jun 4, 2011)

How are they going?


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

I tried to let them hang out from the cage in a closed room, Guacamole went instantly to hide under the first furniture available. Vodka wasn't really interested at all in leaving the cage, after 30 minutes I took him out, I cuddled him a bit, then he explored a very small area and went hiding with Guacamola.

Yesterday was the RPG day and my friends arrived from 7.30 to midnight, when we stopped playing a friend of mine asked me to show him fallout3 on pc, another friend asked me if she could see my rats so we all went to my room, I took Vodka out and she cuddled him a lot, since he seemed comfortable with her I told her that she could keep him on her lap if she wanted, she accepted and kept cuddling him for a while, he seemed ok with that but he pooped (he dont do it anymore when he's with me).


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

I think I'm stuck with Vodka. 
It dont looks like he's goin to make any progress anymore. He is now on my shoulder, but I can't manage to teach him to eat food from my hands, which is pretty important to teach him anything else.
Today I was excited at the pet shop because I managed to find yogurth drops, but he dont eat them from my hand.
Maybe I should feel lucky for what I achieved since he was a feeder and just get a fancy next time.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

yogurt drops are unhealthy - full of fatty oils and sugar. be very sparse with them.

and feeder and fancy rats are exactly the same. often they're all from the same litter - the pet stores literally take the "pretty" and "cute" babies out, put them in the "fancy" bin, and sell them for 3x the price. the leftover plain colors are put in the feeder bin. it's pretty sick when you think about it.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Jaguar said:


> yogurt drops are unhealthy - full of fatty oils and sugar. be very sparse with them.


I know that, thank you for your concern.
I just thought it could be useful to teach things since they should love it.
Anyway, still I'm stuck, I dont know how to achieve more progress.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

eh, depends on the rat, my rats go just as crazy for plain cheerios as yogurt drops and sweets.


will he take food from your hands while in his cage or somewhere he feels more comfortable?


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Jaguar said:


> will he take food from your hands while in his cage or somewhere he feels more comfortable?


He used to, he took the food in his mouth, go to a place he like and started eat. He dont take any food anymore.


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## Terpsichore (May 28, 2011)

More than yogurt drops, my rats actually go crazy for just plain unsweetened, unflavored yogurt. You could try letting him lick some off your finger.

When I got my youngest girl, she was very shy. I would lay my hand flat on the ground and then let her take a piece of food off of it. Eventually, I would move the food further back on my hand, so she would have to climb on my hand to get it. She, now, happily takes food from my hand, as long as it is up to her high standards. She is my picky eater. If she has decided it is not the best pea out of the bunch, then she will not bother with it. In the beginning, she would take whatever she could get.

Also, since you are in Europe like me, Cheerios are probably sold under a different name. I live in Germany and have never seen the plain Cheerios here, but the honey coated ones are called "Honey Bsssssss Loops." They are from Kellogg and are in a yellow box with a happy looking bee on it. My guys would do just about anything for one.

My guys also really like Matzah, which is literally just water and flour, and unsalted rice crackers/wafers, which are puffed rice and sesame seeds. They also go crazy for peas, which I use to train them to do tricks.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Thank you Terpsichore, I'll try those too


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## 1a1a (May 6, 2011)

Helloooo, couple of things that have yet to be mentioned (I think, I'm a kinda tired and there was a lot of post to read through....). Next time I have rats to tame, I am going to try making a carry pouch, I've seen them mentioned around the place and they seem like a good idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruro9ZqL3p8

Re the rat gently biting everything, on you, she may be grooming, everywhere else, i think rats do that to check if objects are food. 

Re Guacamole and Vodka hiding under furniture, I've found that when a nervous rat finds a seriously good hidey hole, it makes it Very nervous. Until the rats are a little more tame, the best solution is to restrict their access to hiding places. Letting them run around on a table is good, I also found that putting my nervous rat on the ground with her cage/home reduced her levels of fear (as long as there were no amazing hiding places, when she felt scared, she would run back to the cage). 

Good luck and keep us posted


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Thanks for your post, on the table you say? Isn't that dangerous? Couldn't they jump off?
Should I put the cage on the table and wait for them to get out and explore the table?

Also, I bought something to use as a litter, Guacamole is using it to sleep instead of what I was hoping for.


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## 1a1a (May 6, 2011)

A rat could jump off but probably won't, I've found if they climb up onto something, they can get down like the little monkey rats that they are however, if they are put on a surface like a table at random, and have no idea about where the ground it, they generally won't jump. I had a couple of rats once that wouldn't even jump the small distance from the couch to the ground (until I managed to show them that it wasn't far).....If you close the doors to the room just in case you'll surely have all bases covered :-D

Cage on the table is a great way to do it, especially if you have some sort of activity you can undertake at the table while waiting for them to come out (say, browsing the web or reading a book).

Silly Guacamole, someone else has posted a thread about rats sleeping in litter boxes too, they just don't get it do they?! Poo = bad (well, mostly).

How are they going anyways? Sorry I took so long to reply, don't check this forum very often


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

They are doin fine  And they are not using the litter box at all. I ended up cleaning it and using it as an extra food bowl...
I did the table thing. After a while Vodka came at me and placed his head on my arm, I started pettin him and he was ok with that.
Guacamole just kept trying to get outta there I think.


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## arkindal (May 8, 2011)

Reviving an old thread with some update.
I've been in vacation this summer for a month, during this time a friend was taking care of my rats.
As I returned I bought a bigger cage, a much bigger cage and I placed boxes for them to play and, obviously, foor and water. I wated few days without touching them, just givin them some treat sometimes, today I tried to put my hand in and pet Vodka, who used to just stay on my lap and let me cuddle him. After a while, well he bit me :-\
Not very hard, barely a scratch, there was almost no bleeding beside a little, a very little.
What should I do?
Picture related, it's the new cage.






I'm planning to improve it more very soon with wooden layers, it should end up having 3 "floors".


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## Ruairidh (Aug 29, 2011)

You say that you'be been away from them for a month? I'm going to guess that they thought you abandoned them. Feeders will always have abandonment issues, in my experience. You need to get them used to you again. My recommendation is, and this will sound odd, but get a pair of underwear you don't care about any more, and baby it in their cage like a hammock. It gets then used to your scent again, even when you're not in the room with them. Also, a pair of underwear, by nature of being inanimate, cannot hurt them, and will provide a safe haven. that way your scent comes to be associated with quiet, calm, and safty, as it once was.


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## 1a1a (May 6, 2011)

Agreed, rats can be forgetful about who their friends are, a little more trust training should see you right. Much less likely. Vodka might be getting hormonal aggression (shows around 6 months, characterised by spontaneous violence and bristling fur).


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## Muppet (Sep 3, 2011)

Just thought id let you know, Rats bite to "smell", there is something in their teeth that helps them determine what it is they have just "bitten" It sound pretty odd but its not out of spite


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## chapstickaddict (Nov 22, 2010)

Not too sure about the whole "biting to smell" thing, but perhaps he did think you maybe had a treat or smelled like food? I've got two grabby rats; they automatically assume ITS NEAR MY FACE IT IS TO BE EATEN QUICK GET IT BEFORE SOMEONE ELSE. Perhaps the friend had a habit of feeding treats by hand? Had you eaten anything tasty recently? Or perhaps a tiny movement you made startled him. I definitely agree with putting old clothes of yours in the cage to let them get used to your smell. Talk to them a ton, sit nearby and just chill, and offer lots of treats. Eventually they'll come around


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## Muppet (Sep 3, 2011)

I do animal care at college and thats what we got taught


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