# Some Help with Babies?



## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Alright, so it was brought to my attention that some babies are Highwhite. I read up on it but I still don't understand HW or MC. I was wondering if you could identify those at risk for MC (when they start sampling hard food, I thought I could take them to the vet for a check. It's $40 a baby, so I don't want all 13 to go). Am I correct in understanding HW could mean MC but MC comes with HW?

The next question...I feel like the babies are developing slower than they should be. I'm comparing them to the ratguide birth to weaning guide, and they don't seem to be keeping up. They are 14 days today (14 days, 1 hour to be exact). Are they? Should I be concerned? Here are the babies:
Baby 1; Female, Eos - http://i.imgur.com/GQKLpfi.jpg (previously "BATMAN!")
Baby 2; Female, Peony - http://i.imgur.com/qdNyDnah.jpg
Baby 3; Male, Elias - http://i.imgur.com/4IsjbYgh.jpg (the fur!)
Baby 4; Female, Chara - http://i.imgur.com/4MtOAeQh.jpg (Note the fur)
Baby 5; Female, Circe - http://i.imgur.com/lXcoB0th.jpg (RAWR - check that claw!)
Baby 6; Female, Persephone - http://i.imgur.com/F3zgaAuh.jpg (the fur!?)
Baby 7; Male, Kairos - http://i.imgur.com/8Zjw2LZh.jpg
Baby 8; Female, Demetria - http://i.imgur.com/nrNe9mGh.jpg
Baby 9; Male, Milo - http://i.imgur.com/4zhic6qh.jpg
Baby 10; Female, Artemis - http://i.imgur.com/ECCMJYUh.jpg (If no one claims this one, I'm probably going to keep her - she is very active, curious and wouldn't leave me alone lol)
Baby 11; Female, Echo - http://i.imgur.com/q3I3FbOh.jpg
Baby 12; Male, Apollo - http://i.imgur.com/A4PHrX7h.jpg
Baby 13; Female, Athena - http://i.imgur.com/DOaCy4nh.jpg

As you can see, I have a few notes about fur. I have questions about fur and color as well. I just don't understand how to categorize them. The fur on a few is raggedy looking, extremely soft and fluffy but looks ruffled and wavey. What is this? Another rat has the softest fur, very light coat. It reminds me of the fabric royal velvet. Not all weird fur have their dad's curly whiskers
The parents-
Dad in all his glorious fluff: http://i.imgur.com/gdjeZ3b.jpg
Mom, smooth coat straight whiskers: http://i.imgur.com/HL1wUL3.jpg

Finally, names. I was told it doesn't matter what I call them right now. Since there are 13, it's hard to keep track of numbers. I want to call them names. However, I don't want them to not be able to have a new name when they go to a new home. Right now, I've homes for 4 babies tops. Which leaves me with 9 rats, that will have to be identified somehow! So, essentially, I want to know about the dynamics of naming a rat and what happens at a new home.


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## Roxy the Rat (Apr 7, 2013)

I can't help with your questions, but I love the Greek names!

And Eos is adorable! Well, they all are. But I love her look especially!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## JLSaufl (Jan 20, 2013)

#2 and 12 are definitely HW, I'm not good about picking them out because I'm not entirely sure what constitutes as a marking vs. HW. But I know those two are.

They do seem a bit small, but healthy. Their eyes should be opening in the next couple days. As long as they're healthy - I wouldn't worry too much about them They're all super cute, btw.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Yeah, I can't determine HW markings v. Marking markings. I know about high white on the sides, but that is about it.

Their eyes are starting to open but they just seem a day or two behind developmentally. I was wondering if it was due to the mother's nutrition or their number? Should I try to supplement them with kitten's milk?

And I know they are so effin adorable! I want to keep them alllllll. Eos and Artemis are my two favorites so far.


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## Finnebon (Jul 15, 2013)

I bet LightningWolf can help you. Haven't seen them online lately though, but I'd like to ask them to check out my babies again too. Unfortunately, I think almost all mine are HW too so I'm also really worried about MC, I know how you're feeling!

I honestly don't think though that it would do any good to get a vet check if there's nothing wrong yet. They probably wouldn't be able to tell until it starts to actually happen and they get fecal matter built up in them. They might be able to give you information about what to look out for, but I'd say you can find information just as easily online from people that have personal experience with it, along with pictures. It might just end up being a collassal waste of money since there's really nothing that can be done to prevent it if they have the genetics to develop it. From my understanding, it's either they have it or they don't. It's depressing to think about.. 

I wouldn't worry about that growth chart. I was using that too and looking at it everyday and my babies seemed a bit "behind" as well. Maybe those babies in the pictures of the guide are just a little more advanced.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Do you think HW babies just have a tendency to be slow-growers? 

I'm sorry about your babies too. I didn't think mine would be a risk for HW and I'm just dreading them hitting four weeks :[


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

First off Megacolon doesn’t always come with the high white marking, and it can also occur in rats that aren’t high white but is a lot less common. There isn’t really any outward signs that can tell you these babies will be fine or not and I don’t think a vet check would help that. What you will notice is at about 4 weeks old (plus or minus a week) when they start eating something other than mums milk for the bulk of their diets that some may start lagging behind the others (failure to thrive) or start appearing bloated. This could be something other than megacolon too at that age, I recently lost a lovely lad at 4.5 weeks to something similar who was red eyed dilute and unmarked, it wasn’t megacolon, probably something associated with the blood platelet pool deficiency that comes with that variety. If they start doing very badly or bloating up then there are diets you can try though in most cases early onset megacolon is fatal so it would be better to put to sleep on the early side when you’ve exhausted your options, later onset has a better prognosis thankfully.

In terms of development, babies develop at very different rates depending on things like litter size, age and nutritional status of mum, how early the babies were born and genetic factors too. For example the some litters we have had in the TI group; 

first off my first litter, mum was an older doe, she’d had a previous large litter about 6 months earlier and done such an amazing job we used her again. She was a big chunky solid doe in great condition. Dad was a young buck (toy boy) in the prime of his life and a big lad, with a slight tendency to be chubby, both breeder rats. She got extras pre pregnancy though not loads, however her appetite also soared so she ended up putting on more than just baby weight. She had a litter of 3 chubby babies late on on day 24 after mating. The babies were big babies and were fast developers. Their eyes opened around day 9 and 10 and they got fur very early on, in fact there pigment was clear from day 1. They were in there adult coat at around 4.5 weeks old and grew into big solid girls (one with there dads tendency to be rotund). In fact they were so big as babies I actually had to restrict food as they were getting overly fat which is not normally a concern with a decent litter size.

Next my most recent litter, the babies were born on day 24 about midday and there was 6 of them. Mum was a nice long good sized doe (the best of the litter above) and dad was a similar long good sized buck, both breeder rats. Mum was about 11 months when we bred from her, in the prime of her life and perfect health (dad was older but still wonderfully fit and young looking) and didn’t get much extras food wise. The babies were chunky with some pigment already on them (well on the dark ones, I had 2 topazs in the litter) and grew at a nice rate. Their eyes started opening about day 11-12, they hit their adult coat about 5 weeks old. They couldn’t have tonnes of food but were never as chubby and fat as their aunties got. 

At the same time as the litter above (well a week later) another of the team’s does had babies, she was about a month younger but not much in it and went to the same dad. She had 14 babies in her litter born on day 22, 2 days earlier than my litter. It showed, the babies had no pigment on them for a couple of days and were always a bit behind my litter both in terms of growth rate and weight. I have a boy from each of these litters with me now and the boy from this litter is now my biggest boy, he overtook the lad from my litter at around 8 months old.

Your mum was a really young lady, before coming to you she was probably on a rubbish diet that contained adult amounts of protein, not the amounts she needed herself to grow. Dad was much the same. She had a big litter for such a young lady which puts a lot of strain on her as she has to provide nutrition for herself as well as her 13 little ones. Even with extra help from you it’s a big ask for a young doe. We don’t know what day the babies were born on but they may have been born a few days earlier than average too. Essentially that means the babies being a little behind is normal, as long as they are substantial and have a nice solid feel to them (featherweight or skinny babies should worry you, unless they hit that age just before they grow into their adult coats where they hit a massive growth spurt and look awful for about a week, they get all leggy and there fur looks rubbish as they shoot up faster than they can take in nutrition). 

In terms of coat type its possible that dad is a satin or lustrous type rat (probably has a different name over there in the US, lots of things do), his wavey whiskers and long coat could be that, though really feeling him in the flesh would tell you more. He would be slick and shiny, with a soft coat. There are tonnes of variations in coat type though so it can be hard to pin a name on one that’s not exactly show standard or from an unknown background. The babies with the slightly wavey whiskers and odd fur could end up being the same, though until they hit there adult coats (which will probably be around 5-6 weeks old, when there fur turns from kitten fluff to a short neat adult coat) it will be hard to tell.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Oh just to add, I wouldn’t try and hand feed them extras at the moment, but I would pop a small water bottle with some puppy milk in for mum alongside her normal water bottle. Also make sure she has lots of high protein food available daily and gets dark green veg everyday too.

Once the kittens start moving around and exploring (which is imminent now there eyes are starting) make sure that there is soft mushy food available at kitten height, baby porridge made up with puppy milk, very sloppy scrambled egg and similar should be good. You should find they start trying thigns very early on and that will help take the strain off mum. Also make sure they can get to their dry food too, I find babies are often fascinated by it and if they’ve been trying to suckle on your hand much you probably have found out they have very sharp little teeth at the moment (poor mum). Getting them eating lots of this as soon as possible will help mum and mean that once they are comfortably on adult food and about 4.5-5 weeks you can split mum off to start building herself up again (and move in with Dad too). I think this is the worst thing about pet shop accidental litters, they deprive mum of her own childhood and sap a lot of their nutrients. The babies will probably grow into lovely good sized rats with your care, but mum may well be smaller than average for the rest of her life, even with your help.


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