# Cat Info??



## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Hey guys,

Not sure if you have read my other thread, but during a rat rescue we trapped some cats. My boyfriend and I, took home this little guy. As my boyfriends off work with an injury and has extra time to socialize a kitten and has experience owning them previously. We may keep him if he fits in with the rest of the animals, so far the rats are terrified, so it may just out to be a foster. 

Heres a pic!









This is his second day here. We left him in his crate for a few hours, to adjust to the new surroundings. Then we started petting him, until he would let us stroke his entire body. He even started to like it, and fall asleep purring. Then we started picking him up and letting him be around us as much as possible. He lay with us for a while under the blankets, then went back to his crate. He is barely eating, I did manage him to get to eat some pork but I had to open his mouth and put it in there before he got the idea. He also licked some milk off my finger, but thats it. This morning he lay under the sofa for a few hours and let me hold and pet him. Now hes back in his crate, right next to me on the computer. 

I just had a few questions, wondering if any cat lovers here had the answers. 

Firstly does anybody have any idea how old he is? We've had a suggestion of 8 weeks old, but that was based on a previous foster litter they raised. Hes quite tiny, my hands are very small and that animal crate is my rats traveling cage.

Also, I just want to check I am feeding him right. Hes not eating much right now... but this is what hes being offered. Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance L.I.D - Green Pea and Duck formula. It says on the bag its all natural, allergy free, grain free, suitable for kittens and adults. 
30% Crude Protein
12% Crude Fat
4% Crude Fiber
10% Moisture
.16% Taurine
.4% Omega-3 Fatty Acids
2.6% Omega-6 Fatty Acids

Ingredients
Peas, Duck, Pea, Protein, Canola oil, Flaxseed, Natural Flavor, Methionine, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Maganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Potassium Iodine, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Pyridoxin Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid. 

Hes also being offered canned wet cat food and raw/cooked meats. And has fresh water and kitten milk available at all times. Does he need anything else? 

I am really surprised by how friendly he is being, he lets me pick him up and carry him around with no problems or resistance. But I was wondering if anybody knew any ways to get him to feel comfortable here, since he was wild born and is now away from his family. I'd prefer him to explore on his own terms and come to me for cuddles.. but he doesn't move much by himself. I figure he just needs longer to settle in, I hope thats the case! 

Also I'm fairly confident hes male. At what age do they start spraying? 

Does anybody have any advise, with regards to litter training him? I've put down a pan full of cat litter. But he doesn't move much, unless we move him. I have not seen him go the bathroom yesterday or today.... but he is not eating or drinking much either. I am keeping an eye on him for dehydration. If he proves too young to be away from mom, I can foster mom also. The other siblings are suckling only occasionally, and eating dry/wet food. They are acting more skittish than this boy.

Also, when, if ever... can he be let outside again. (Not set free, just to play) Should I be taking him outside on a harness? I have be advised to keep him as an indoor only cat for at least one year. We will also be moving homes in the next few months, so he won't be let outside until we move and he has settled in there too. 

Any input or advice would be appreciated! And if anyone in the Okanagan area is interested in fostering a wild born kitty... PM me!


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

I just upgraded her to a bigger box, so she has room to move around and stretch. Its far better than being in the animal carrier. I covered the box with a blanket so he feels safe and secure. He meowed a bit, but seems to be settling down nicely.

We have an even bigger box which he will be going in over the next few days, which is a few feet in length... so will be nice temp accommodation for him. I just don't want to overwhelm him while hes still settling in. 

Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.


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## lilangel (Mar 26, 2009)

a nice cat forum i sometimes go on http://www.catforum.com/index.php may be able to help out more.

She looks to be around 8 to 12 weeks old but like said they are hard to tell sometimes  For foods im not too sure i feed my cats wet food only wellness brand.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

My family has many cats, and we worked with rescues before,

For food, I really recommend Blue Buffalo kitten formula, Innova Kitten food, or Wellness kitten food, they are made with the good quality ingredients and will keep their teeth healthy (which believe me is important)

At around 10+ weeks of age, the vet will discuss being Fixed when the cat is a healthy weight and age. A cat fixed to young will grow with psychological issues. I am sure you know this, but declawing is inhumane and agonizing for cats and should be avoided.
If she is scratching furniture or cutting you, Look into a small cat nail cutter, or have your vet cut their nails. Like you would a dogs nails.

Also a product called Soft Paws is a wonderful harmless cap that goes over their nails.

They look to be old enough to be off of mothers milk, but if they are younger then 6 weeks, they should have some access to kitten formula in a dish. it is sold in cans in pet stores.

She will need vaccines as she goes for checkups her first few times. For rabies, feline leukemia, and other boosters.

I am not a cat expert, but owning 6 cats and a sister who rescues gave me some valuable info haha.

He wil settle in slowly, give him some time and we will come around.

As for litter training, cats do it naturally no need to train. it is an instinctual act to bury poops in a sandy area. 

If they are from a bad situation, keep a look out for worms in his poo, or blood.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Thank you for the great info Kiko and lilangel!  I will go check out that cat forum. 

We feed our dogs Blue Buffalo, and have been very impressed with the results.. so its good to know the same company makes a cat food too. We shall start switching them over, and instruct the foster homes to do the same thing. If we are feeding that do we need to feed canned or raw meat? The reason we are feeding raw now is because mom had been hunting birds and groundhogs... so I didn't want it to be too much of a shock to their system. I'm feeding canned food now because it contains lots of moisture and I was worried he wasn't drinking enough - but looking at the nutritional info... it seems very poor. Is there any canned food that contains a lot of protien? Our current stuff is just 10% but he seems to eat more of that than his dry food. Some good news is the kitten has been eating and drinking well :] He also tried to eat my chocolate bar.. but I stopped him in case it was bad for him like it is with dogs. I wasn't too sure.

Do cats need any kind of chew toys? (Can you tell I'm a dog person? lol) I got him some string kitten toys which he played with earlier today  What about toothbrushes? I saw them at the pet store but I wasn't sure.

Yeah I wasn't planning on getting him declawed... to me that sounds as pointless as removing a dogs voice box?!?! (yes, I've heard of people doing that!) We will get him fixed when hes all healthy and the vet says its ok! He'll also be receiving any needed shots.

My boyfriend said indoor long haired cats don't shed too much.... is that right? My boyfriend has allergies, and I can't stand the hair everywhere! Is it cruel to shave them?.... I seen groomers around here advertising a lion cut for cats. We had planned on getting a Devon rex or a Sphinx.

We have picked up a scratch post for him and cat nail trimmers just in case. 

He certainly settled quickly! He will jump into our laps and purr or meow while we stroke him. And he closes his eyes and pushes into our hands. He also nuzzled me under my chin - which I thought was adorable. He is fine around the dogs, and visa versa. The rats seem to be adjusting, but we won't be letting them play together anyway. I was worried at first because he seemed shut down almost, but hes doing great and I think hes going to make a great pet. My boyfriend is growing attached, but we have not decided for sure if we are going to keep him or not. We are trying out the name Baxter with him. He likes to climb onto our shoulders and sleep right next or on us. Hes adorable! He was even playing with our fingers.

Thanks again guys!!


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

Haha! No, you need no chew toys 
And Dry food should be good by itself, wet food is a good supplement, once a day is what i feed my cats.
For male cats always make sure they drink alot, and have a good quility food because Penis plugs are common on male cats due to either poor nutrition, or not drinking enough, my cat had one recently. He was in agony, and needed extensive vet care  and it can kill if untreated.

The kitten formula on Blue, should have all the needed protein.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Awe poor boy, that must of been uncomfortable!! Did he make a full recovery? Should I be checking for penis plugs? OR at least getting him used to being checked. 

Thanks again for the great info!! Baxter says thanks too! ;D


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

He made a full recovery thank god.

You should not worry, unless you see him not peeing, or peeing in odd places. it's very avoidable with good diet 
We were un lucky :/


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## Nekopan (Mar 18, 2010)

The rats will be terrified for a little while, probaby around 2 weeks or so. Then they should get used to his scent and be fine again.

Cats should have a diet of only wet/canned food. Since they evolved from a desert animal, they are used to obtaining almost all their moisture from their food. Even modern house cats do not drink very much. If they don't get any wet food, they will develop kidney issues and other problems. Cats should also eat twice a day. For a young kitten, feed as much as they will eat. By the time he's about six months old, cut it down to the adult amount. For standard sized cans this is about 1 can per day. He doesn't need the cat milk, but it's a good treat.

General rule of thumb for kittens is 1 lb a month until they reach 6 months. So a 2 month old kitten = 2 lbs, 4 month = 4 lbs, etc. This may not work if he's undernourished (can you see/easily feel his ribs and spine?) but it's a good guideline. It helped us age our kitten.

Our kitten took about a week to settle in, but he was quite friendly with people already. To start, I confined him to a small room with nothing but his litterbox and sat and talked to him a lot. Once I was sure he was going in the box, I gave him access to the rest of the house, at which time I discovered he likes to pee on beds. So now I keep the bedoom doors closed. He gets free access to the living room, hallway, bathroom and kitchen. Ours is quite vocal so we always know where he is, lol. Cats really value and take advantage of vertical space in rooms, so provide perches and hidey holes if you can. Two of our guy's favourite spots are the window ledge and underneath the couch.

I personally only allow my cat outside on a harness. It's quite dangerous for cats outside, and most injuries/death comes from being hit by vehicles and fighting with other animals. Just last week we had a cat in our clinic that had a run in with a raccoon; the vet did everything she could to save him, but he passed away after surgery to remove his toes and tail. But if you want to let your cat outside, I doubt he'd decide to stay there - especially if you're feeding him and he's bonded to you.

If you have litterbox concerns, there's a type of litter called Cat Attract that is good for convincing cats to go in it. Keep in mind some cats are very picky about their box and will not go in it if there is too much waste or they find it smelly (and cats have much better noses than we do!) It's recommended that you scoop out the box once a day and completely change it once a week.

Cats can be hard to sex. You can do it similarily to rats by looking at their hind end; if there is no or little space between the anus and genitals, it's a girl. If there's a lot of space, or you see two bumps (testicles) between the anus and urinary opening, it's a boy. It's said that females look like an upside down exclamation mark (!) and males look like a colon ). You can also try pulling back the skin around the urinary opening, if a little pink penis comes out, it's a boy 

Some male cats never start spraying, but if they do, it's usually around 8-10 months of age. I would recommend getting him fixed somewhere between 4-6 months old. Misu is getting snipped tomorrow, and today he's driving me crazy since he's not allowed to eat until after the surgery.

Kittens play with just about anything. I suggest you invest in a feather wand or similar toy on a string that you can use to simulate the chase and pounce game cats love. We have a Turbo scratcher and a laser pointer. Misu's other favourite toys include crumpled up paper balls, beads on a string (he plays fetch with these!), the buttons on the couch, anything dangling like the camera strap... you get the picture. 

Anyway, that turned out a lot longer than I expected... if I missed anything or you have any other questions, feel free to ask.


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## Nekopan (Mar 18, 2010)

Oh, I meant to add - I clip my kitten's nails once a week or more. I keep them super short in case he decides to take a swipe at the rats, that way he won't do as much damage.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Thanks for the great info Kyla! As you can probably tell... I've never owned a cat before. I always thought they were solitary animals like hamsters... so I'm pleasantly surprised at how sweet and affectionate he is. I am fairly confident its a male, as I had a feel around and felt small testicles, kind of like how you can on a 4 week old rat. (They are prob about the same size too lol) I will have the vet double check when we take him in. Hes quite fluffy and jet black, so I couldn't see very well.. I had to do it all by touch. 

Is there a wet food you would recommend? My boyfriend picked up some 'Special kitty' (He liked the name.) And then yesterday I picked up some 'Go' because it seemed a better quality. We have also been feeding him raw fish, sardines etc. At current we are feeding him little and often, about eight times a day, approx 4 really heaped forkfuls at a time. 60% wet, 40% dry. (His dry is available at all times) He is a little underweight, I can feel his ribs and spine really easy, and his hip bones protrude quite a bit. I know cats should be lean, but he seems a little too skinny to me. My boyfriend said its normal for a kitten, but then again.. I've never owned one so I wouldn't know. I just put him on our digital scales and he weighs approx 2lbs! So 8 weeks approx is right? Maybe older since hes a little underweight. 

Did you see that video on castanet about the mutilated cat in Kelowna? Who could do that to a cat. I think I will just adopt your method of taking them outside only on a harness, its not just the cars we have to worry about anymore!! I just wanted to make sure he would be happy being an indoor only cat. Will I eventually be able to walk him like a dog? Like would he want to come on a walk with me and my dogs? Or just stand out in the garden and let him stretch his legs/explore. 

Hes really getting comfortable around us, he will climb into our laps and walk all over us at night. He also walks past us and brushes against us. He comes to us from wherever he is hiding when we meow. We leave dry dog food down for our dogs (I have two very strange eaters!) and I heard the kitten crunching a few bits of kibble last night. Is that okay for him? I don't think hes eating much of it. The crunching only lasted a few minutes.

Also I wondered about his shedding. He barely sheds at all right now, and hes a fluffy little guy. Is this because hes a kitten? Will he shed like crazy as an adult? This has always been one of my main issues with cats - the hair really irritates me. I have been brushing him, and I had to cut a few tangles. My boyfriend also plans on bathing him, since he came from filthy conditions. Kyla do you think its cruel to shave him? (lion cut)

I'll give clipping his nails a go, they do seem long. My bf said it wasn't necessary with a cat scratch, but I'd prefer them kept short anyway. 

He is not doing so good with the litter box training. Caught him peeing on my coat (which was hung up!!) and I rushed him over to the litter box, but I don't think he got the idea. Where we pulled him from, there was feces everywhere, so may take him a little while I guess. He is pooing where ever he pleases. I will have to start confining him to just my bedroom until he gets the idea. I may also give that litter a try. Thanks for all the great tips!! 

It was the girl rats that seemed terrified. They were all frozen to the spot, it was quite funny because I could touch them and move them around and they would barely move a muscle. The boys have been a little tense, but their cages are higher up so maybe they feel a bit safer. The girls is floor level (but 4/5 levels in the cage) They seem to be doing a lot better. I think having a cat around may be good for them, get any new babies used to smell already too. 

His mom came around his morning to visit, and he was super happy to see her. He suckled for a bit, she groomed him and played with him then she went home. Awe!


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

I have never heard of a cat only needing wet food. Ever.
Working with rescue cats for years, and cat vets. And witnessing cat obesity, and half the cats that dont even like wet food. 
I use both Wet and Dry, dry avaiable all the time, wet twice a day for my 6 cats. 

we use a water fountain for cats ever since we had the one with the penis plug, which for some reason makes drinking more appealing for cats. It's like whem we caught them drinking out a faucet.

I never saw the need to clip once a week either :/. I do it once every 2 weeks or so to avoid getting the kwik. it depends on your cat really. This is only because with 6 cats, someone is bound to be a scratcher.


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## Nekopan (Mar 18, 2010)

I suspect your kitty is between 8-12 weeks if he's 2 lbs. A vet might be able to tell his age by the teeth he's lost. Some cats will allow their kittens to suckle until they're 3 months old.

Like I said, I clip once a week because I want them dull and don't want my rats getting hurt. If I didn't have rats I'd clip maybe once a month.

I first learned about the wet food from the vet I work for. She feeds her cats only wet and all the cats that are boarded get the same. If they don't eat the wet, they get a bit of kibble. Most leading cat forums also agree that you _have_ to feed a cat wet food - look at places like Catster and ask their advice on nutrition. I'm currently feeding wet in the morning and kibble for the evening meal, but eventually I'd like to switch to raw.

Ideally you want brands that are grain-free. Misu gets Now! Grain free kibble. We've fed the Go! canned but he didn't like it much. Wellness is another good brand.

I don't see much point in shaving a cat, it might reduce the quantity of fur in your house, but he's still going to shed the same amount.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

I used Wellness for my cats alot, becayse they have cranberry as one of the ingredients which helps with the urinary tract.

I use wet food, i just never heard of using only wet food.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Thanks again for all the great info. 

So would it be best to feed him an all raw diet? If so, what kind of meats are best? I have been feeding him raw already, so may just continue to do so. In a few months time I will also be raising my own meat (providing I find a way to slaughter them that I agree with) 

Does anybody know the ideal protien level to be feeding your cat. I think I remember reading someone post 50% or more. Mines only 30% right now. And all the canned stuff seems low. I guess he is getting raw too, so I shouldn't be too worried.


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## lilangel (Mar 26, 2009)

yeah i use only the wet food but i do keep dry on hand, see we were going to do the raw but decided on wet only seeing as i read alot of articles stating that cat food needs so much moisture in it. Info i have read so far on it:

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whycatsneedcannedfood
http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html

More here: http://www.catforum.com/forum/38-he...inks-why-canned-better-than-all-dry-diet.html

But i know many who also feed dry only.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Thanks for the links, a very interesting read!!


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## Nekopan (Mar 18, 2010)

Here are another couple of websites with good info.

http://www.catinfo.org/

http://www.ibdkitties.net/


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

Thought I would throw this out there that its really painful to the cat to have their claws removed. Its also very dangerous if the cat get out because they have no way defend themselves. We had an elderly cat that was declawed and she got to where she was so senial we couldn't keep her in the house because she would throw a fit and one night she was attacked by something, not sure what though, probably another cat but she had some bad wounds on her head. I would use softclaws. That's what we use with my cat now. They work great but you have check them often (because they stay on cats longer than dogs) to make sure that the nails aren't growing into the pads.


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## toby (May 11, 2009)

id say hes between 8 and 10 wks old. he'll need worming and you are right to not have him declawed. this is cruel in my opinion.


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## digitalangel (Apr 16, 2009)

When looking at the protein on wet food you have to account for the fact it has so much water so it appears to have a lower protein but if you were to account for the dry matter only it usually has more protein then dry. Anything you can buy at walmart is garbage. Stick to the better brands if possible

Look at the "Guaranteed Analysis" on a label
Subtract the moisture percentage from 100
Divide the resulting figure into the crude protein figure (disregard decimals when dividing)
The result will be a close approximation of protein by dry matter value

Keep this in mind too when buying food: 

The 95% Rule
A cat food may not be labeled simply "Chicken for Cats," or "Chicken Cat Food," unless it contains 95% or more chicken by total weight of the product.
The 25% Rule
Foods labeled "Chicken Entre," "Chicken Dinner," "Chicken Feast," or the like, must contain 25% to 95% chicken. Combinations, such as "Chicken and Beef Dinner" must contain a total of 25% to 95% of the combined meats, listed in order of quantity, and the second meat listed must comprise at least 3% of the total weight. (Imagine ordering a "steak and lobster" dinner and finding the "lobster" will barely fill a fork.)
The 3% Rule
A food labelled "Kitty Stew with Chicken" must contain 3% or more chicken. ("With" is the optimum word here.)
"Flavor"
Barely worth mentioning here, but if you see something similar to "chicken flavored," be assured that the product is unlikely to contain any chicken at all, as long as there is a "sufficiently detectable" amount of chicken flavor. Since these "flavors" may be the result of digests or by-products of the named animal, I'd avoid these at all costs.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Thanks for the info, I picked up some more of the go! as it seems a good quality with real meat and no grains. Looking on the ingredients for the special kitty, its garbage. So none of the cat foods at Walmart are any good? We got the go and the dry mix from a small pet store in west bank, it was $3.50 for a small can. And $22 for a small bag of the dry mix. (Although this should last a long time, because were feeding him mostly canned + raw each day. 

How much of the wet food should he be eating? It says on the can to feed twice as much to kittens that you would to adults? So he should be eating two small cans each meal? twice a day? 

Also hes nibbling on the dog food occasionally.... is that bad for him? Hes not eating a lot of it, because we always tell him no and move him away and he usually won't try again after that until the next day lol. The kibble is blue buffalo, so it is real meat and no grains.... should I let him eat it? Or continue to move him away. We don't leave dog food down 24/7 now, but I do have to leave it down for a few hours because I have weird puppy eaters lol. 

I can also report very proudly that he has litter trained himself  We locked him in the bathroom over night (he was climbing on top of us and pooing and peeing on us!!!), and ever since hes been returning to his litter box in there to use the toilet. 

We took him to the vets for a check up, and hes defiantly a boy! The vet guesses hes 7-8 weeks old and said he will be a big cat full grown. Hes been wormed, and we've started him on a three month course of Revolution. He will be going back for his shots in a few weeks. Apparently we don't need all of the shots if he is to stay inside? And when will he need worming again? I forgot to ask that. 

My boyfriends dad has really grown attached to this cat, so looks like he will be staying within the family :] We have been looking at rescuing another kitten for him to have company. Is that needed? He does wrestle with my puppy, and play with us... but I think he'd like a cat friend.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Heres some pics of him. We still don't have a name for him lol.





































The last picture is how he looks when he lies next to my boyfriend when hes playing games. Theres a little slot in the chair that he puts a blanket in and the kitten squishes himself in there. Its quite funny.


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