# Gentle alpha male suddenly very aggressive



## Ashlee1228 (Nov 1, 2012)

My sweet Larry just turned 1 yr old and up until tonight he acted like an old man rat, his companion, Oliver "Ollie" is also a male (both intact) that is about 5 or so months old. Larry has always been very gentle and tolorant of his younger and more active friend... Until tonight. We they were introduced when Ollie was about 5 wks old Larry took to him immediately and ever since theirs has been a match made in paradise. Tonight my BF and I were on the couch when we heard a loud scuffle and cries from the boys cage (4'x2' 4 level cage) and rushed over, all we could see was a ball of mad rat and we couldnt tell who had started it. Instinctively I stuck my hand in the middle and grabbed a chunky rat (Larry) who prompt bit my finger but not badly. We seperated the boys and started examining them for injuries, Larry was without a mark, but poor Ollie has a minor slash right down his back, it looks much worse than it is, anyways after having seperated them for hours now I decided to try and put the boys back in the same cage, all was going well until Ollie saw Larry, it was hard for me to see Larry so I dont know if he was posturing threatingly or not, but Ollie ran back up my arm and becomes very tense and stiff if I try to put him with Larry. So now I have 2 issue:1) what could cause such a sudden change in Larry's behavior (due to Ollies reluctance we assume Larry started it)?2) Ollie is obviously sad to be away from his Larry but is also terrified of him, what can I do to help the two old chums become friends again? If castration is the key then who do we have done? Literally up until tonight we had never had an issue with either rat...


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## Ashlee1228 (Nov 1, 2012)

Their diet is quite varied, they have constant access to regal rat pellets, a small salad to share usually with romaine, a carrot, a small slice of apple or other fruit, no nuts or seeds (they wont eat them), a superworm as a treat... And maybe a small rat size bite of something we are eating... They love steak and scrambled eggs, but I really do try to keep it healthy for them... Gave them sardines tonight after i read something about iodine affecting hormones. Now my boys smelly like rat pee flavored sardines  bath time for Larry, ollie will just have to smell funny until his cut heals


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Sounds like the normal, Male rat is now a true adult and his hormones are kicking in and challenging the Alpha.

Iodine will really help, but Ollie might need to be neutered. His issues Could be from hormone issues (Thus, Iodine will help) but Neutering will help and take away from stress from the thyroid.

I heard from some that meat can cause aggression, and while I personally do not feed meat due to the whole gal bladder issues and meat fats issue, I personally do not think it would affect their temperament, so their diet should have done anything. (btw, Fish and Insects are not considered meat due to their fats being made of different compounds that do not require Bile to be digested).

If they'll do it you can put a drop of Iodine in their water. you can order it online from Amazon.


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## Ashlee1228 (Nov 1, 2012)

Ok I will try that, thank you very much.When we have filet mignon (rarely) i just cant help but give them a little taste, but I had not read anything about gal bladder problems and fatty meat, but I will def keep that in mind from now on. Should I neuter the agressor, or both?


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Personally I would only neuter the aggresor, neutering has no benefits and so it's kind of pointless to neuter both of them. then again I think female rats should be spayed as spaying highly decreases the chances of tumors, so unless your getting females and don't want to spay, no need to neuter both.

Really the thing with meats is to make sure it has no fat. Rats can only produce so much bile and over production to digest a ton of meat fats can put a strain on it. But once in a blue moon, and a not fatty piece, isn't going to harm them, isn't going to help them either, so it's just a treat. Really the main thing is to avoid Pork and Bacon, Pork is hard to trim the fat off from what I know, beef is recommended to be avoided but the fat can be trimmed so I'm not too concerned with it being once in a blue moon. I would only be concerned if it was like weekly, in which case that would be too much protein anyways.

So yeah, rarely isn't going to hurt them.


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## Ashlee1228 (Nov 1, 2012)

Ha I wish I was having filet mingon weekly! But couldnt the non-agressor 5 month old rat become agressive when he is a 1 year old like Larry is now? Should I keep them seperated until I have it done? You can tell my baby Ollie-lollie-ding-dong (what I call him when he is good) is so confused why his friend attacked him and he is in a new cage.

Noooo females!!! That dang female mini evil lop we we have ruined it for any female animal ever lol.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Oh, I thought it was your 5 month old that was the aggressor? 

I guess then you could get them both neutered but I'm personally wary of neutering year old or older rats.

Wow, that's fairly common with most female rabbits, especially the smaller breeds like mini-lops.


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## Ashlee1228 (Nov 1, 2012)

No its my 1 year old. Yeah Im worried about his age, thats why it just doest make since why he is suddenly like this. Yeah the rabbits barely tolerate us, she literally went psycho and I was forced to spay her which made her really not like me...


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Rats fight. Even the best of friends squabble sometimes. Usually the problem is worst if there isn't a hands-on alpha human in the picture. Personally, I would get both rats out of their cages and initiate a few hours of supervised playtime every day until they work through their differences. I would also be very hands-on to make sure that both rats remember that I am the only alpha male in the room.

In wild rats fighting for dominance among subordinate rats is rare. Fighting usually takes place when a subordinate rat decides to challenge the alpha for status. And even then, alpha males often rule their packs long after they have passed their prime. Apparently, really good alphas know how to inspire loyalty. That said, if both of your rats regard you as the alpha there less likely to quarrel among themselves. Still, for reasons that we will never understand even rats that are best friends forever will get into a knockdown drag out brawl. Sometimes, these arguments resolve themselves as quickly as they started.

The onset of hormonal aggression at one year of age for an alpha rat is unusual. Have there been any changes in the amount of time you spend with them? Have you recently changed your play routines? Or has anything else changed in the routine or environment that might have brought on the squabble? Rats are very sensitive and thinking animals it might be something you would hardly notice that's got them freaked out.

As human beings we like to fix things quickly and efficiently and surgery always seems quick and efficient, but keep in mind it really only treats hormonal problems not behavioral ones. And as your problem just started very recently, and you're not even entirely sure which rat started the fight I think that option is premature.


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## Ashlee1228 (Nov 1, 2012)

Rat Daddy, 
nothing has changed with how we interact with them, they always get out time together and I try to keep everything equal between them. Up until last night I would have said that Ollie would have been the aggressor since he is younger and at the right age for raging rat hormones, but I am 99% sure that this was all Larry's doings. 

The only thing that I can say for sure that has changed, which is a whole other set of worries for me especially since the fight last night is that my old boy Larry has had some red discharge from one eye, no crust or other symptoms and I have been treating it with some animal Rx eye goop (from our exotics vet) to head off possible pink eye or other infection, other than that no changes that I am aware of... 
After the fight Larry just seems different, maybe its just me but Ollie seems to sense it too, almost like even the way his face looks to me has changed... I just cant put my finger on it. I'm sure I am being an over protective rat mom but in the back of my mind all I can think is the eye issue may be a sign of something much worse, and now this... 

It looks much worse and deeper than it is, and this was taken about 30 min ago after I washed and applied neosporen to it... Our vet is coming over with some skin glue to help it heal. I really wish everyone had a rat vet like her, she is amazing!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Well, the vet visit and eyedrops weren't normal... but not necessarily the cause of the fight. Maybe Larry isn't feeling well and Ollie bothered him, or Ollie saw Larry's condition as a sign of weakness... Still the same recommendation applies, lots of out of cage playtime with you in charge and see how it goes.


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## Ashlee1228 (Nov 1, 2012)

Thank you Rat Daddy and LightningWolf for your help and suggestions, they are great appreciated and valued!


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