# African Soft Furred Rat Woes



## silverfox

I've gotten myself four ASFs. I _think_ I have all males but they're not really in the condition to check. Jumpy little things. They were the last four in the feeder bin at my local reptile shop and I'd been looking at them for weeks. To be honest, they are sweet little things and I can see that they could make great little pets; not rat-great but still pretty darn close. They are skittish and pee everywhere (out of fear mostly), but I can hold them and they don't run off or bite. They're about as close to being rats as my boot to be honest. Maybe mousy, but the few mice I owned were feeder breeders and that ended in disaster (alpha female murdered everyone then promptly died) so I don't know much about they're behaviors. My little ASFs are very unique from both I think and they are driving me crazy all ready.

My first major problem is that I've never had an animal that _required_ a water bottle. Through the years, I've converted rats, rabbits, guinea pigs, hedgehogs, kangaroo rats (which I want more of), and hamsters to water bowls. Other than a few stray poos or bedding, I never had an issue. These ASFs, though, are another story. The first night I had them, it was all bedding by morning (using pine for the second as it's what I had and I wanted to gauge their digging tendencies). By morning two, they had managed to move all the food into the water bowl (that was really gross by the way). Now, morning three has what's left of a shredded toilet paper roll marinating in the water. I had water bottles with a passion because they always seem to leak, no matter what. I've had hundreds of the stupid things. They also like to mold so easily. Water bowls are just so much easier! However, at this point, I'm betting I'll never convert adults to a bowl. Grrr!

The second major woe is that these guys really do live up to the rumor that they like to dustify food. All the food they'd put into the water bowl was just crumbs and crumbles. I can't imagine these guys are actually eating at this point. They're just demolishing it for me to clean up and replace twice a day. I'd like to give them a wheel to entertain themselves with, but I'm afraid I'll come back to them with little hard hats on, leaning over blueprints and the wheel completely dismantled behind them!

My last woe is that I haven't been able to find an ASF-specific forum, which would probably answer most of my questions. Why can't there be one like the wonderful Rat Forum where just about everyone knows a quick trick to make me stop pulling hairs? I also complain about the same with anole-specific forums. They're aren't really any. I'd start a few, but I'm on level 1 in expert and I feel I should be at least level 5 or even level 10 (expert level) before I start giving advice on care for specific exotics.

Anywho... rant over. Any ideas on my woes?


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## Daniel

I think the problem is that they actually haven't been domesticated very long. Not many people had them as pets until the reptile people starting to use them as feeders because they are a mid sized between mice and rats (a size very in demand). Some reptile people have even touted them as an eventually replacement for rats for many snakes. Anyway, due to this short domestication period, they are still pretty wild. From what I have seen, they are not pets for rodent beginners. 

Sadly, to get your answers, you're probably going to need to speak to the reptile breeders of ASFs. Some of them keep a few of them on the side as pets though.


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## silverfox

I own reptiles myself. I'm sure my snake would love to get to the smaller rats, but as a corn snake, he's out of luck. They're too big. From the reading I've been doing, there's very little I'll be able to do about the food thing. I sure wish I could. I think I may have found a solution to the water bottle, but will have to test it out here in the next few days. I was planning on moving them to a 40 gallon breeder until I build my new rat cage for the troop, but I think a 20 gallon tank is best until I get some of the kinks out of their care.

I'm honestly thinking about getting a colony going and seeing if I can't breed them for temperament. The boys I have right now are very sweet, just jumpy. It's like they might want to be okay with handling if they could figure out what exactly I wanted. I'm going to go the simple route and try to find a favorite food. If I can do that, then taming will be a breeze. I'll have to get pictures of them as well.

On a side note, I'm wondering if rat lice can tolerate living on ASFs. My guys have lice from the store, same place I got the ASFs, but I can't see anything on the ASFs, even with a magnifying glass. At this point, I'm not going to bother treating them for lice, just their bedding and such (like everything else!).


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## FallDeere

You could post your questions on fancymicebreeders.com. I know at least one or two members there breed/own ASFs as well as mice. Mostly for feeders, probably. I really wish there was a forum for ASFs.  I want to get some eventually because I've heard lots of good things about them as pets, as long as the owner is willing to put in a lot of work, lol. There's a breeder really close to me that breeds ASFs for pets, carefully selecting for temperament. I guess the line is still in progress because they haven't offered any for sale in a long time. Maybe they're just not producing many litters.


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## Daniel

I'd probably be tempted to get ASFs if I saw them...but I never have. I am starting to wonder if they are illegal in certain areas because they are so new in the US.


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## FallDeere

I've researched them quite a bit and haven't seen anything about them being illegal anywhere in the US. I'm not sure any legislators are even aware of their presence. XD Can't make something illegal if you don't know it exists.  -_sshhh_- rofl.

On a more serious note, they're really not something you see in a pet store. On a reptile forum, I found someone say that a pet store was selling them for $40 each as "dwarf rats" but that's the only instance I've heard. The breeder near here is a feeder breeder as well (they have separate lines for feeder ASFs and pets), that I discovered on CL while looking for regular rats. ASFs seem kinda "specialized" so it's not common to see them even on CL. I've seen two or three other breeders, but many of them were actually trying to get rid of their breeding colonies, rather than simply selling extras. I think mostly only die-hard snake people really know they exist, as well as those of us who accidentally discovered them when looking into Fancy Rats. These are just my observations, of course. I've never spoken with any ASF owners/breeders, or to anyone really about them.

I would be soooo tempted if I saw them in a store. >.< They're so stinkin' cute! Ach, curse the ten rodent limit in my house! -shakes fist- rofl.


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## Daniel

Same here. In fact if I saw them I know I'd probably get a couple of males. But alas, at the moment I have 7 rats, 2 mice (with babies on board), not to mention frogs, fish, etc I won't seek them out unless they are at a pet store.


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## FallDeere

Eight rats and two gerbils here... and 0 space for any additional enclosures until I move out. XDIn a few years, when I have less rats and move space, ASFs are a definite possible future pet.  Until then, I'll just continue to research the heck out of ASFs. rofl. I hope that in the meantime, a few ASF fanciers will arise and gather important info. Most info about them is from Feeder Breeders right now. Maybe by then, ASFs will have their own forum.


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## anawelch

I used to see them a lot on the Dallas craigslist. They are popular feeders but not a lot of stores have them so they show up often on craigslist.


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## Daisy

Just wanted to chime in and say that ASF are most definitely illegal in California, not 100% on what other states. I actually have a small colony right now. They're cute little buggers


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## FallDeere

Well, shoot.  My diabolical plan of keeping them secret from the government has _failed_! >.<

It seems to go in cycles on CL in DFW... there'll be a sudden influx of ASFs and then -poof- nothing. Same with regular rats and even mice... and gerbils. _Especially _gerbils. There was literally ONE gerbil on CL when my family was looking and then a few months ago -BAM- there were like twenty... and last I checked there are little to no gerbils again. I am trying to avoid CL lately, though. I'm feeling the urge to get a new pet, so I'm having to order rat food and bedding online to avoid going into stores that sell live animals. ;_; Twelve pets is _enough_! (2 dogs, 2 gerbils, 8 rats) DX

Please forgive my late-night post of weirdness.


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## silverfox

I'm at 40 pets, so trust me, I know the Craigslist avoidance thing. Lucky for me, most of my animals are reptiles that are considered "looky but no touchy" like my baby mourning geckos and Mediterranean house gecko. Or my millipedes, tarantula (how is a little jerk), my anoles, or even turtles at times. Most of my pets are animals that just need their special lights, food, water, and clean cage. If anyone ever really wants the entire list, I can post it and photos in a new thread. Lol

Concerning the ASFs, there are a few more things I've discovered. First, they aren't odorless. Their odor is more... tangy? Exotic? It's like going to the zoo. You can smell the difference between dog poo, which is "standard" smelling, and elephant poo, which has that wild smell. Seeing as I'm an animal person, the smell doesn't bother me. It's just different. I love the smell of horse poo, for example, as it reminds me that I'm near horses (like I'd need a reminder). I actually enjoy the smell of animal poo because it tells me what's going on. My dog's poo is general a very generic smell, so if I smell something different, I know she has a tummy problem. With my cats, I always know who just used the litter box based on the smell. My cat Cassie has the smelliest poop I've ever been around, but it also tells me if she's allergic to the food I've switched to in any given month. Poo is good for getting information.

Back to the ASFs, I also learned via Youtube, that these guys can be very tame. They shouldn't be too difficult to domesticate. I find they are probably very similar to Degus or short-tailed possums. You have to handle often and make sure to make it as positive an experience as possible. I think we have to stop thinking of them as either rats or mice. The genus group they're in consists of other "mouse" species but not the standard pet mouse (Mus genus). The ASFs are in the Mastomys genus, which includes multi-mammary rodents of the African continent. I honestly think as a community, the "rat" and "mouse" part of the name should be dropped to avoid confusion and that they should be grouped with short-tails and degus as exotic rodents. They should be considered tame but not domesticated just yet. These guys are no cute and cuddly rats. They're just cute thus far. Lol


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## Daniel

Yeah, now if I only could find someone who had them in Ohio. I'd probably have to go on a snake forum and ask around for a couple of feeders to make my pets as there seems to be no other way unless you have a very good pet store. 

I know that they are called African Soft Fur 'rats' but I've heard of a few people getting them to actually live with mice, yet I have also been told they have more in common with gerbils as a pet.


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## Schaub

Daniel said:


> Yeah, now if I only could find someone who had them in Ohio.


I live in Toledo and my soft furs just had babies. They are about a week old now. I haven't checked to determine gender yet so I don't know how many males or females I have, but if you want some, let me know.


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## September

silverfox said:


> If anyone ever really wants the entire list, I can post it and photos in a new thread. Lol


Yup, this needs to happen!


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## silverfox

I've read the gerbil thing too. I never kept gerbils. Thought I had but wen I took them to the vet for something or other, I was informed that I somehow ended up with kangaroo rats. This is when I was in middle school and now I know those poor guys weren't given a kick of justice by my family or me. I still feel terrible when I think about it!Perhaps I should get some gerbils and see how they compare?


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