# A few concerns about my recent (planned) litter



## vannakins (Sep 11, 2013)

Good morning, guys. I'm having a bit of a stifle here. My 10-11 month old rat recently had a littler of four (only three survived). This is her first litter, and she seems to be doing a pretty decent job as a mum so far, however I have a few concerns. The little bubs are now about three days old, they were birthed on September 9th. Mocha isn't feeding them all too much, she usually retreats to the other side of the cage to take long naps. I've read on a few posts that pinkies need to be fed about every couple of hours? I have another female (Sebastian) who has been impregnated since September 6th. Sebby is anywhere from about 3 months old to 5 months old. She is 100% non aggressive, but she has a very tiny dominance issue, as does Mocha (to elaborate, Mocha and Seb usually end up rolling around for a few moments until one of them gains dominance, then the dominate gives the submissive a nice bath). Anyways, I was wondering if it would be okay to put Sebastian in with Mocha and the litter, possibly to help with nursing (if rats even produce milk at such an early stage) or even just to help tend to the pups. Mocha and Sebby are very familiar with each other, and have lived in the same cage for about 2 months now until a little more than a week ago I decided to place Seb in with my stud, Sasha, for both breeding purposes and so that Mocha could have her pups in peace.
Also, it's come to my attention that Mocha is pretty unintentionally rough with her babies. She's a curious honey and the cage is placed where people of the house walk past a lot, so she is always getting up on her hind legs and staring at everyone, and jumping around to get attention. Unfortunately, although her dance is quite cute, she seems to be trampling all over the babies. They make squeaks in protest, but Mocha ignores them until minutes after the person who was near her cage is out of sight. I don't have the ability to move the cage to anywhere quieter and less disturbed, and I have tried to cover the cage with a blanket to make Mocha calm down but she is able to sense when someone is nearby and still gets excited. I'm worried for the babies, but is all of this just natural? It doesn't seem to be injuring them any as far as the eye can see, but it's very pitiful to hear their tiny screams. 
Also, I have this one clingy bub who is usually found hanging off of Mocha's chest nipples even when Mocha is jumping and running around. This bub is a _huge_ buggar! He's already the complete size of my pinky (and I'll admit to not having the most petite hands in the world). Is all of that normal as well?

Thanks in advance! You guys are an extraordinary community! xx


----------



## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Its perfectly normal for some mum rats not to spend all there time on their babies, it really depends on there personalities and mothering style. The key thing is to check that the babies are warm and well fed, at this stage the milk band should be very clear through their stomachs. Just keep an eye on them and make sure they are well fed and warm, popping some extra bedding in if they seem to be cool to allow mum to build a warmer nest. Its worth noting that if shes anything like my current mum (she had hers last week) she will not be on the nest the minute she hears you coming. She'll be up at the cage door begging for food, and wont go back to feed them until you leave the room just in case she gets some more food (i swear she thinks i'm starving her lol).

I wouldn't put Seb in with Seb Mocha right now, whilst they may only have the odd mild disagreement away from the babies it would be perfectly withing Moach's job description to really beat her up around the babies, and Seb may try and steal the babies if her hormones are up. Too much disruption and fighting could also cause Mocha to loose her babies. However when Seb's babies are around 3 weeks old and assuming both mums are happy and relaxed you could merge the groups. Take the mums out, move both babies into a nest on either side fo the cage and then put the mums onto the nests. They should quickly merge and be a very happy communal group.

Dont worry too much about mum hurting the babies, they are tough little things designed to take the rough and tumble that mum unintentionally subjects them too. They aren't screaming when they squeak, they are talking to her, trying to attract her attention and asking for more food. Its more like a grumpy "Oy" than and hurt noise. You'll also notice they make it when they are fighting over her teats to feed, or later on as they grow and they are chasing her around the cage demanding there dinner. Baby rats are very determined hungry little creatures.

Its not abnormal to have different sizes in groups, and in small groups they can sometimes be massive. Normally you have some chunky ones, some middlish and one or two runty ones. In a small group theres less room to show the variety. With only 3 though i would expect them all to be a good size as she has pleanty of nipples. I currently have 11 babies here and theres a marked difference in baby size

Here's a picture of my current litter on day 3, you can see a cork for size, yours will be bigger, but you can make out big and litter ones on there


and a picture on day 2 where you can see the milkbands really well, again your may be further ahead than these, they were born on day 22 of pregnancy so about a day premature.


----------



## vannakins (Sep 11, 2013)

I appreciate your extremely fast and helpful reply! It seems that you might have a handful with all those pretty lil bubs!


----------



## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Its going to be more than a handful lol, i can jsut about fit the pile of them in one hand at the moment, i am both excited about and dreading when they get their eyes and must be everywhere and into everything. I expect I will need about 15 hands.


----------



## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

I wanted to add, my first litter was 3, its a lovely size to get to know the babies well though puts the issue of making sure they all have similar aged friends as a bit of a challenge, hopefully your second litter will provide you with pleanty of friends. When is it due?


----------



## vannakins (Sep 11, 2013)

Sebastian should be due sometime around September 29th. She has already made a remarkable size increase and she's only been pregnant since September 6th! I may end up having a few more than three this time, and we'll be cutting very close between her birth and being able to introduce Seb to Mocha's litter.


----------



## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

Please read the rules of our forum, we do not condone intentional breeding here.

This area is for people to ask questions about rats they did not intentionally breed ONLY.


----------



## vannakins (Sep 11, 2013)

Whoops! Sorry about that. I'll be sure to give the rules another run-through.


----------

