# dangers of introducing new rat to old with chronic mycoplasma??



## ratdance (Mar 29, 2012)

i have had a sweet little girl rat for about 4 months now and during that time she has had reoccurring mycoplasma infections. she gets treated with baytril/doxy and sometimes azithromycin and recovers very well each time after a few days but it seems like she is just really susceptible to it. i have already switched apartments and totally gotten rid of anything she could be allergic to (not to mention i have started using everything scentless and hypoallergenic on myself as well just in case).. her bedding is fabric that is washed constantly with minimal hypoallergenic soap too, so i don't think it's allergy related unless she is having a randomly allergy to the pomerian she has play visits with at my moms house (she doesn't have problems that arise after these play sessions and has gone weeks after one with no problem..). every time i start the process to find her a buddy she just ends up sick again and i'm super worried about continuing to have a lone rat any longer! she stays out of her cage almost all the time and usually even sleeps in a ball by my head at night (until she wakes up at 4 am to "rat attack" my feet.. "no no, momma doesn't wanna get up to play to 4 am.".). i am hoping that all the free range time will somewhat make up for the lack of a buddy. 
so, my question is; how the heck do i go about finding her a cagemate?? how much risk am i going to be putting a new rat in by exposing her to the sick one? should i be looking for a rat to adopt that already has mycoplasma issues? or one that has definately been exposed but doesn't show symptoms? if you put two rats together that have mycoplasma problems, can they reinfect each other and get even worse? are there different strains of mycoplasma and can some be stronger or is it just the rat's immune system that decides how strong the myco will be (i don't want her to end up with 2 different strains and get sicker)? will a baby be more susceptible to it? is it even possible for her to get a cagemate at this point or ever?? what the heck do i do? she plays and snuggles with me and the pomerian but i know she would be so happy with a new buddy..


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## JessyGene (Feb 27, 2012)

I am in a very similar situation; I have one rat with myco and I want a cagemate for her. I asked around here before and did a bit of google research and I think it would be fine to get your rat a companion. This is becuz all rats have mycoplasma (except for laboratory rats); its just that some are more resistant to it than others. So putting a new rat with your rat would not infect the new rat because the new rat will already be carrying myco. Thus, you should look for a healthy rat (one who is hopefully resistant to myco) so that you won't have to treat the both of them. Having a playmate might even make your rat happier and less stressed, and thus less prone to myco flare-ups. 

So, I would look for a friend for her. I'm looking for a new rat now too but there doesn't seem to be anything in my area
Good luck!


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## tifanyk (Mar 30, 2012)

Lol omg yes get her a cagemate!! she will be so much happier, reducing stress levels, thus reducing myco flareups! (oh just saw someone just said that  )

Rats are born with myco, (even some lab rats-mine are lab rescues). Most rats from pet stores have myco badly because of pine/cedar bedding, poor ventilation and high stress. Since all rats are born with myco, you are only helping by putting them together, although not all rats show symptoms. I have two lab rats and one that was found walking around the beach, and they all get myco from time to time and heres what I found to help (excuse the generic msg but I want to post this for everyone to see! so much information we are not aware of. I do a lot of research and I hope this helps 

I have the same problem with my rats. I have three rescued lab rats (yes they can get myco) and lost one, Kai, a while ago to myco. I only had them a couple months before the wheezing started and I tried every kind of medicine and nothing worked. Doxy, baytril, tetracycline everything and eventually he got so sick, stopped eating and died within a day of severe symptoms (I honestly don't think the vet knew what he was doing though-do yourself a favor and pay a well qualified exotic animal specialist if you are going to go to a vet. If you go to a low cost like I did, the vet will likely not be familiar with the right way to treat rats and you will try a million different things which ends up costing the same amount of money in the long run.) His dad (Splinter) and brothers (Peter Pan and Kramer- great names huh?) upper respiratory infection went away by itself and they seemed to be doing okay. Since Kai died, I am determined not to loose another to that "incurable" disease. 


I am vegan and lead a very natural lifestyle, using food as medicine, and I hate to give my rats chemical drugs when I would never myself take them. But like I said, determined not to loose another rat to myco, Splinter, Kramer and I recently made our way to the (best) exotic animal vet in town at first symptom of upper respiratory infection. Doxy and batril in combination with a nebulizer worked wonders and their colds went away within a week! I was sooo happy! Until a month later when I heard them wheezing again. I know myco is a life long thing, but don't you think there is OBVIOUSLY something wrong with these treatments if once you stop, the cold comes right back? I am against chemical drugs because it only suppresses the cold, it doesn't do anything to help your rat build up a good immune system to help fight against future attacks. 


So this time around, I am treating it naturally. Living in the Information Age, we really have no excuse not to find a natural remedy when we have a million resources right at our fingertips! Heres what I found;


First of all, feeding as many fresh fruits and veggies over store bought rat food is the best diet you can give your rats. Mine have been on a vegan diet of raw fruit and veggies and a little bit of raw nuts since I got them, and one of mine is over 3 years old and still going strong! 


The thing I'm most excited to try is *grapeFRUIT seed extract *(not to be confused with grapeseed extract), I read so many amazing stories, it's a miracle cure for so many things and is said to relieve myco in rats. Grapefruit seed extract will kill viruses, fungus, bacteria (myco) and parasites. It is used in vet and zoo settings to kill animal parasites and bacteria and a general antiseptic. Get in capsule form and break open the capsule and sprinkle on food, the taste is very bitter so you only want to put a little. One capsule should last one week for a rat. 


If you use the heat or ac, *put jars of water on the heater and vents* to put the moisture back into the air that the heat/ac take out. Get a *humidifier* if you live in dryer climate. I don't have one so everyday I put my rats in a carrying cage and put them in the bathroom with me when I take a shower, the steam is good and will help them breath better (you will notice a significant decrease in wheezing). I use only natural bath products like vinegar and baking soda, so the smells don't affect them. If you use a lot of chemical cleaners, put them in the bathroom when you are not taking a shower and run the water on burning hot for at least 15 minutes. Seriously, make it a goal to do this once a day. It helps so much. 


Consider *eliminating petstore foods*, which are high in dyes and fillers (did you know half of it could be cardboard?) If you wouldn't eat it yourself, how is it safe for your best friends?? Give your rats fresh fruits, veggies, or grains like oatmeal 5-6 times a day in small quantities and at night, leave a bunch of lettuce, parsley or other leafy veggies in the cage to snack on. You can make your own mix of rat food with organic raw nuts and organic puffer rice cereal if you desire, they only need a little bit of this at night. 


However, if they are sick, *mycoplasmas thrive on argine*- an amino acid which is found in coconut, nuts (cashew, almond, hazelnut....), seeds (sunflower, pumpkin, sesame....), wheat germ, buckwheat, granola, oatmeal, chickpeas and cooked soybeans so *AVOID THESE* or completely eliminate it from their diet if they are prone to flair ups!! 


Foods high in *Querectin* are shown to greatly reduce symptoms of myco; black and green tea, onion, apple, red grapes, tomato, broccoli, leafy green veggies, rasperry, cranberry, citrus (not everyday for males), buckwheat and more... include one of these at least in their diet daily, or chop a couple and give a couple tsps a day. 


*Raw garlic* is supposed to do wonders (in humans too); In 1944, a chemist, Dr. Cavallito reported that eating it raw could be morepowerful than penicillin and tetracycline as an antibiotic. (from here.) My mom had a bad cold the other month, so she started putting raw garlic in everything she ate for a week and after a couple days her cold was almost gone!


Foods rich in *vitamins A, C and E *should be given daily. Basically a combination of all fruits and veggies, make tiny fruit salads in the morning and tiny leafy salads with veggies for lunch. If your rats won't eat raw veggies, fry it for justttt a minute in some coconut oil or olive oil. Once they get used to lots of veggies and fruit in their diet, they will start accepting more raw so lightly fry just to change the taste a tad so they will go to raw later on. Ultimately, raw is the best for them, so try that first.


If your rattie is having a really hard time breathing, you can give a tiny chunk (half a chocolate chip) or pure, *organic DARK chocolate* (has to be dark). Dark chocolate contains theophylline which is known to help with breathing troubles. 


*Mataki or turkey tail mushrooms* are amazing and could be used to treat myco. Rich in minerals, fibers and amino acids. Contain powerful antioxidants. 


*Echinacea, eucalyptus, dandelion*, can all be used to treat myco also. You should do research yourself to determine which one you think would be best. Some people say they're harmful to rats, some don't. I believe if we can eat it, they can too..so it's up to you! Give small amounts daily or one leaf a week. Not sure the dosage but this seems to be the average.


One of the most common causes of a myco flair up is a *dirty cage*. Ammonia build up in cages will cause sneezing and can greatly increase myco flairups and makes it a whole lot worse for your little guy to deal with, let alone, get better. *Clean daily and thoroughly wash once a week.* Make sure to use unscented, NATURAL, *nontoxic soaps* when cleaning the cage or hammocks. Rats have very sensitive noses and even if you can't see it, residue from soaps is left behind and gets on your rats and into their systems. I use plain old baking soda and hot water to clean my cage and it works great. 


Also, if you are using *pine or cedar bedding*, this is *TOXIC *for rats. Using bedding like carefresh is ok but I wouldn't recommend. It is made with a profit in mind, not your rats. Rats are so tiny and low to the floor that all that dust that comes from the bedding goes straight into their lungs and can cause or worsen myco. I use any fabric or old clothes I have and cut it to fit the size or my cage floors. If your rats will pull up fabric, hold it in place with binder clips. You'll need to change the fabric daily, just pop it in the wash with some baking soda. *Store bought bedding also carries mites *and other bugs that are NOT fun to get rid of.. My rats got mites once from carefresh bedding and the constant cleaning, medicine and sad little rats is not worth it. Bedding will sit in warehouses for months, even years, before it gets to the petshop and then sits somemore, that is how bugs get in and lay eggs. Same with food. 


Always keep the *water bottles fresh* and wash at least once a week..dirty water bottles spread myco. 


(FYI- if your rattie is ever sick from blood loss or dehydrated, *coconut water* is a miracle to have around! The other day, my rats got in a fight and one got a nasty tail wound, I had to hold him for one hour and apply pressure cos blood was gushing everywhere. He was so lethargic from blood loss I thought he was going to die, luckily I had some coconut water on hand and since I know it is so good for humans to rehydrate after workouts, I gave him some and within minutes he perked up and was his old self again!  I'm really happy to find tricks like this so just wanted to pass it on. Best brand is C2O.)


If you do end up giving antibiotics, you should give your ratty some yogurt (vegan  with live cultures because antibiotics will kill the good bacteria that they need to get better. Also, dairy will neutralize some antibiotics like doxy, so stay away from that too.


I'm not 100% sure on any of these but I'm certain it will do you good to try. Everything I've listed is natural and should be bought organically if possible (rats immune systems are very sensitive, don't get me started on GMO and pesticides...) I believe plants can be used as medicine and have healing powers we have forgotten about in todays quick-fix society. I am not a nutritionist or anything like that (yet..) I am just a 23 year old vegan that's crazy about my health and my rats, and I want to learn everything I can so I can help all the tiny rats of the world fight this infection in a TASTY, natural way, not by shoving meds down their throats (oh, don't you hate that?). 


*If you won't eat it, don't let your rats.* That alone will do wonders for your little rat.


*Not everything that is safe for humans is safe for rats. PLEASE do adequate research before trying ANY treatment and make sure there is documented research done on rats and not just on humans. If in doubt, ASK YOUR VET. - Jaguar*


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

ratdance said:


> i have had a sweet little girl rat for about 4 months now and during that time she has had reoccurring mycoplasma infections. she gets treated with baytril/doxy and sometimes azithromycin and recovers very well each time after a few days but it seems like she is just really susceptible to it. i have already switched apartments and totally gotten rid of anything she could be allergic to (not to mention i have started using everything scentless and hypoallergenic on myself as well just in case).. her bedding is fabric that is washed constantly with minimal hypoallergenic soap too, so i don't think it's allergy related unless she is having a randomly allergy to the pomerian she has play visits with at my moms house (she doesn't have problems that arise after these play sessions and has gone weeks after one with no problem..). every time i start the process to find her a buddy she just ends up sick again and i'm super worried about continuing to have a lone rat any longer! she stays out of her cage almost all the time and usually even sleeps in a ball by my head at night (until she wakes up at 4 am to "rat attack" my feet.. "no no, momma doesn't wanna get up to play to 4 am.".). i am hoping that all the free range time will somewhat make up for the lack of a buddy.
> so, my question is; how the heck do i go about finding her a cagemate?? how much risk am i going to be putting a new rat in by exposing her to the sick one? should i be looking for a rat to adopt that already has mycoplasma issues? or one that has definately been exposed but doesn't show symptoms? if you put two rats together that have mycoplasma problems, can they reinfect each other and get even worse? are there different strains of mycoplasma and can some be stronger or is it just the rat's immune system that decides how strong the myco will be (i don't want her to end up with 2 different strains and get sicker)? will a baby be more susceptible to it? is it even possible for her to get a cagemate at this point or ever?? what the heck do i do? she plays and snuggles with me and the pomerian but i know she would be so happy with a new buddy..


She definitely needs a new buddy, and yes there are different strains of myco but usually its the same strain in your immediate area. Your girl sounds like she just has a weaker immune system and likely will have myco flareups all her life, but this shouldnt stop you from getting her a friend, unless she's very sick and the stress of intro's makes her worse? Myco is not contagious as such, and you can often have 10 rats in a cage and only have 1 that gets sick...the other's immune system is not as weak.


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## ratdance (Mar 29, 2012)

*thanks*

thank you for your responses! 
jessygene - i hope you find a good buddy for your ratty soon  i need to find a breeder, or shelter in jacksonville, fl now. i know it can be tough to find sometimes. there are ratteries listed online for this area but so far either they have none available or their webpages no longer exist. next i just need to double check with my vet that she is indeed a girl (no babies).. i was told by 3 different vets that she was a male, even 1 month ago, and that her testicles just hadn't dropped yet.. but she very clearly has nipples and "girl anatomy" not to mention a distinct girl personality. she did appear to have small testicles at one point in time but they went away. (one of the vets thought she might be a hermaphrodite) 
tifanyk - good lord that's a lot of useful information. thank you! i actually already give my ratty coconut water!! i get thai baby coconuts because i am addicted to them and she goes nuts for the water and flesh  it's hard to keep her from eating anything i do because i let her eat off my plate when she was a baby (which is ok because it's mostly healthy), and now she thinks she is entitled and will run up my arm to eat no matter how many times i switch the plate from hand to hand (she has gone swimming in a number of bowls of cereal because of this..she reeeally loves soymilk) she also hangs out in the bathroom with me while i shower or bath because she isn't into hanging out alone. ...and she has also taken quite a few dives into the bathtub, which she is perfectly ok with, but i couldn't get her to into a bath on purpose if my life depended on it. i read somewhere that onions and garlic are bad for rats but now i will have to check into it again. 
lilspaz68 - i am going to get her a buddy asap  there is no way an intro will stress her out. although she did attack a cat one time (one who has a long history of being friends with rats i had as a kid), she has instantly adored every person and dog she has met. she is reeeally crazy about her pomeranian buddy and they play like monkeys on crack. she grooms the dog (as well as my head) and likes to play in her fluffy tail. i should really take a video of that! too bad the dog can't stay with her all time and sleep in her cage with her..


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## tifanyk (Mar 30, 2012)

hahahh omg a hermaphrodite-cereal swimming-dog loving rat, thats way too cute. 

I get thai young coconuts also, I cant get enough of them. I give mine garlic with no problem. Just mince a clove and give a couple chunks, not too much.. Also I've started mine on Grapefruit seed extract and it's working amazingly well... I puree a chunk of frozen banana and some almond milk and put one drop in it (for each sick- in individual servings) they go crazy for it and their wheezing has stopped completely. I need to do some more research to see the longterm affect (if any negative) on rats and if it's ok, I'll continue (probably every other month) this to keep the URI away, cos theirs is reoccurring also. Well hope everything goes well  She sounds adorable and like a handful!


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## tifanyk (Mar 30, 2012)

p.s. they have only been on grapefruit seed extract (liquid) for about 2 days now and the wheezing is gone..pretty sweet. No antibiotics needed!! I'm also doing a lot of the other stuff I mentioned, the good fruits and veggies they should be getting and no nuts. Seems to be a good choice.


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