# When you try to help someone trust their rat again and you get completely ignored!!!



## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

Ok, so I was trying to help someone on a rat page on fb, because one of her rats bit her. she basically just got them and was feeding them banana before it happened and her rat bit her, so she was asking for help what to do with a bitter. The whole time I was giving her ideas about laying her hand in the cage, telling her that rats are not bitters, they don't bite for no reason, they bite when they are scared and defending their selves, or they have a medical problem, or think your food and chomp down. 

I continued to give her ideas, and told her rats mouth you to see if your food because they have poor eye sight, she told me she's not going to Well she wont even leave her hand near them when they go near her fingers and they open theirs to find out. When she does they bite hard and she pulls away. I believe they are not biting her at all and that they are still mouthing her, one has red eyes and the one who bit her has black eyes. when I was basically going to give up on helping her she was like basically what i'm asking is their away to train them to not bite me for any reason weather their scared or just seeing if i'm food? 

That's when I was done because They are not biting her, rats are not bitters, they don't bite for no reason. I gave her plenty of ideas to trust them again, and the one thing she listens to is a random person telling her to use gloves. Now what i've read with gloves and rats is they don't like them and most of the time are scared of the gloves, well when I said to the girl who suggested this that I heard rats don't like gloves, like some don't like socks they both completely ignored it.

I only would have suggested the glove if she got bit more the once, the only time she actually got bit was the first time the rats drew blood and if the rat was aggressive but it doesn't sound aggressive, so the girl that suggested gloves linked her to a helpful info page on the rat page and then commented BITTER just like that and tagged some other people in it that helped others with biting rats. That was it for me. On a public site with people that have rats and some that are new to rats and learning about them, that right there is what scares them away seeing BITTER on the page. She could have just tagged the people and then they would have understood by reading the post. 

BUUT again i'm sticking to what I said, I don't think the rat is a bitter at all. 

That's my rant. I needed to say it some where and not to them because i felt completely ignored and that anything of what I said was not even helpful sense everything I said the girl with the rat basically ignored or said she tried but pulls her hand away every time. but gloves I guess are the magical answer.

I even told her if you think they are biting hard or being to rough make a squeak noise or say no firmly and they will learn shoe doesn't like it.


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## euneirophrenia (Mar 6, 2014)

I can understand how you feel. It's hard when you want to help people with their animals but the person doesn't want to take your advice on the matter. I have had this happen quite a few times with rabbits when I attempt to give advice, but sometimes, it's best just to let it go and realize it's hard to change peoples opinions and ways, especially if fear is what is driving their opinion. Getting bitten is certainly not very confidence boosting, so I'm sure the woman is just scared and looking for the easiest out in terms of not getting bit again. To her, the idea of gloves seems the safest so that is what she will stick to. I can relate to this because one of my old rats was definitely a biter. He drew blood on my every time even though I knew all the steps not to get bit having had many aggressive/fearful rats before. It got to the point where I began to think maybe there was a screw loose in his head and eventually I just stopped holding him all together out of fear. It's a shame she won't take your advice, but there will be plenty other people to help in the future, and you did all you could, so be proud of yourself for trying when others might not have.


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## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

euneirophrenia said:


> I can understand how you feel. It's hard when you want to help people with their animals but the person doesn't want to take your advice on the matter. I have had this happen quite a few times with rabbits when I attempt to give advice, but sometimes, it's best just to let it go and realize it's hard to change peoples opinions and ways, especially if fear is what is driving their opinion. Getting bitten is certainly not very confidence boosting, so I'm sure the woman is just scared and looking for the easiest out in terms of not getting bit again. To her, the idea of gloves seems the safest so that is what she will stick to. I can relate to this because one of my old rats was definitely a biter. He drew blood on my every time even though I knew all the steps not to get bit having had many aggressive/fearful rats before. It got to the point where I began to think maybe there was a screw loose in his head and eventually I just stopped holding him all together out of fear. It's a shame she won't take your advice, but there will be plenty other people to help in the future, and you did all you could, so be proud of yourself for trying when others might not have.


I'm pretty sure she was bit once by him. Oh and rabbits I have two and bred mine once. There is this young girl on youtube who just bred I think it was three of her females with her males. So that A lot of bunnies that she will have, that could end up homeless. I asked her on the video why she bred them and she said to research the genes of them. I also asked if she had any homes lined up and she said no but a few of her friends want bunnies. So anyways I explained to her that she shouldn't breed her bunnies unless she has homes lined up for the babies because there are so many bunnies now with out a home. Plus it isn't pleasant for the rabbits I also told her there are books and the internet where she can find the information out about genes. Well she basically told me not to be rude and that I can't tell her what to say because I don't know her or know what i'm talking about because apparently you can't find this information out on the internet or in books. so I should get my facts straight and stay off her channel. After she said that she went on one of my videos of my hairless rat and said U.G.L.Y you have a rat you can't tell me what to do with my rabbits, p.s your older then me so you shouldn't be telling me what to do you dont know ho to run a rabbitry or a farm.

Sense when should I have a rabbit to know what i'm talking about or live on a farm? I commented back to what she wrote on my video back on hers and told her sense im older she should listen and just because I don't have videos of my rabbits doesn't mean I don't have them I have to actually. And I wasn't being rude I know this information. 

I hate kids that think they know what they are talking about but once they are told they are wrong freak out and try to make you look bad on your own stuff that had nothing to do with what they had said.


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## euneirophrenia (Mar 6, 2014)

It's pretty common to find people breeding rabbits (or any animal) without any idea of homes for them, especially because most breeders I know keep their rabbits until maturity and sell them during fairs and shows. Not to mention easter is coming up, which is a time of year that I hate as a rabbit fosterer. So many rabbits come in during this time from people whose children lost interest after a week of having an easter bunny. I agree that she should have probably researched a bit more and had some homes lined up just in case, but everyone has reasons for doing what they do. Perhaps the girl was being more defensive when speaking with you because she felt a bit cornered. Many people do and say things they don't really mean when they feel threatened, and in this case she did so by talking about your rat. Regardless of her reasoning, I wouldn't let it get to you too much. She is just one person and if she chooses to not allow other opinions into her life and think about what others have to say, then it's not worth wasting time on trying to sway her opinion. I'm currently going to school to become a certified vet tech and during a lecture tonight, my teacher started taking about how we cannot just go up to someone with a obese animal in an exam room and, no matter how much we want to, say "Oh my god! What a fat dog! Here are some ways to make her loose weight" Even if we just want to help and are saying our opinion to better the animal's health, it can come off as kind of strong to pet owners and many people take it personality. Heck, even I do sometimes when people talk negatively about the health of my babies! The key is to present information to people in a non-threatening yet informative way. Our teacher taught us in cases of obese animals to state facts regarding how obesity effects lifespan and diseases in comparison to a similar dog with a slim tummy. It's shocking results that truly get people thinking in my experience. In this girl's case, perhaps a less forward approach would have worked better for her, like stating the facts of all the rabbits who are homeless this time of year due to unplanned breeding, but fact is there is no way to know how someone will react until you say something. You have planted the seed, so perhaps now she will be more proactive about finding homes for them. That is all you can do with people sometimes but it is much better then nothing.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Mitsy,

Basically all you can do is offer the best advise you can when you believe you are right. It's up to the other person to take it.

Since I introduced immersion, we've saved many biting and screwed up rats. We've also built some of the best human and rat bonds ever and still, even with 25,000 plus reads and volumes of success stories some folks don't take my advise... and I've been told, that in some far flung dark and dank backwards back-washes of the rat hinternet I'm considered the second coming of evil himself...;D 

I do care about the rats and their people I try to help, but I don't take it personally if folks don't take my advise. In fact, immersion has actually evolved by people doing things with their own twists... One person did immersion with their rat and dog together which I never would have recommended, but it worked and human, dog and rat are now best friends... and the experiment has been added to our knowledge base. 

I might add one footnote, the first people I helped with extreme immersion only took my advise because everything else failed miserably. Can you imagine how insane it sounds to armor up and engage a biting monster rat in combat for hours to become it's best friend? But I knew it would work, and other people tried it and just as I promised we fixed their rats... Now people can look back on a long track record of success... But imagine how the first person must have felt, trusting a stranger online... 

I first wrote the instructions for extreme immersion and deleted them 3 times before deciding to hit post reply... and as I predicted there were some derogatory comments about rat abuse posted in response... and the next morning there came a reply from the OP that his monster biting rat was napping on him and they had played together all night and other people read that one thread and they fixed their rats too and extreme immersion was born and immersion was breach birthed. To be entirely honest, on that fateful evening I first posted extreme immersion, I didn't think anyone was going to take my advise, even though I absolutely knew what I was doing... but I posted it anyway... even though I knew I was going to take some heat and likely be ignored... 

I decided that posting extreme immersion was the right thing to do, it was the only way to fix that particular rat... And one very brave person gave it a try, even though I'm sure they had their doubts.. and the success of extreme immersion back door introduced normal immersion and we're still fixing rats and building happy mixed rat and human families. And I'm darn proud of all of the people that took a chance and have great rat relationships to show for it.

So, don't be put off, if you know you are right stand by your advise, and try to help people that need it.... don't worry about who takes your advise or who hates you for it.

I had a so called rat expert convince someone against immersion for one problem rat... poor poster wound up following the "expert's" advise and getting both her rats neutered when the second rat went antisocial too. Sadly we could have fixed both rats without surgery, but the OP made their choice. I'm sad for the OP, and the rats involved, but they made their choice and they had the better option presented to them. So the next day, we just fixed another rat and helped start a few more beautiful friendships... Just because people giving inferior advise sometimes win out, in the long run if you are right you will help way more people than you lose.

You have a good heart... stay strong... don't loose faith in helping other people... Remember, Fuzzy Rat never gave up, no matter how many times I didn't understand her or recognize her amazing intelligence and spirit. She insisted on getting through to me and not being treated like a small animal. Because she never gave up, and because I was willing to take a chance and share the insights I gained from her, lots of screwed up rats have been saved, and lots of other people have great rat relationships of their own.

As to giving people advise about certain things like breeding rabbits, many people just don't want it. They think they know better, and until they learn for themselves, you can't help. I have a very firm policy about not giving people help they don't ask for. Doing stupid things is the way we learn best. I saw a TV show yesterday, where someone is introducing panthers into Florida suburbs... how can this possibly go wrong? Bad seeds need to become weeds for people to see how they screwed up... Just sit back, watch the show and hope for the best. Some of the baby bunnies might get good homes, so it's not likely to be a total wash out...


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## Hey-Fay (Jul 8, 2013)

I've been chomped down on several times by my friends boy. I 100% agree with you that rats don't just bite without a reason. This boy was cage aggressive, and he doesn't like me at all lol, and I had kept him twice over the past year. On both accounts of him staying with me He got me five or six times. Did I get mad? No. I understood that he was in an unfamiliar place without his brothers and on the second time I kept him I had to force feed medication down his throat, I wouldn't like me either. Now when I got bit he did get flipped and scratched till he calmed down and begrudgingly accepted that he was in my house and he was most definitely not the alpha. And once I put a band-aid on and sat back down with him he was the sweetest, yet very mischievous, little stinker I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. 

I think that if this chick actually got bit then they would have drawn blood, like the bitey boy I took care of for a bit. My smallest baby will nibble on my fingertips gently because she's trying to tell flesh from food. If she really wanted to she could do some serious harm. You're more than likely right about her rats just testing to see what is and is not food.


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## ohmyhi (Jun 18, 2013)

To go along with your rant, it really annoys me when people over react. Yes it's not pleasant to get bitten by something but if you jerk or react dramatically not only does the poor animal see that and associate it in their own way but you also cannot gain their trust. It's the same with birds, they naturally communicate with nibbling and will bite if they feel the need to. And people don't seem to understand this -_- OR when they think the animal is 'horrible' or 'vicious' when it's really the humans fault for doing something wrong.

And something related, I hate when people over react when a bee flies by. They will not sting you but if you in fact hit them you just told them you're a threat that needs to be taken care of. 

And another example, my boyfriend's sugar glider, Socrates, got his tail stuck in one of his toys a few weeks ago. I desperately tried to free him but I found that I couldn't unless I took everything out. And poor Socrates was so confused and scared and was biting the crap out of me. Yeah it hurt like **** but I had to tough it out because in order to free him I had to get within biting range. But my boyfriend got pissed and tried to pop him lightly enough he wouldn't hurt him but hard enough he would stop. And of course I got mad at my boyfriend because i was trying to example there's no way to example to him what's going on. And finally we cut the toy so we could release his tail and he was fine, thankfully, after that. But the whole point of that was to just state that some people just don't understand.


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## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

euneirophrenia said:


> I'm currently going to school to become a certified vet tech


 I am going to school in September to study to be a veterinarian administrative specialist.

And to everyone else who have commented, It's not easy to get through to people at all but it's nice to rant to others who understand what you are dealing with.


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## ArborWeek (Feb 18, 2014)

What do you guys think leads to a biter? Do you think that persistent biters are mentally / emotionally ill? Maybe biters just need a little extra attention and love.


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## Mitsy (Apr 8, 2013)

that's what we are basically saying. People that we have tried to help think their rats are crazy and can't get help or can't be helped, or they just arn't brave enough to face their biting rat.

I think unless it is not a mental illness causing it like a brain tumor, then it can be fixed, and if it isn't from that or hormones in males that need to be neutered to be calmer. Then it could be caused from their past, or from being scared, maybe not from being tamed, maybe being made to do something time and time agian that they don't like, some rats are just naturally aggressive but can be taught that biting is bad.


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## euneirophrenia (Mar 6, 2014)

Mitsy said:


> I am going to school in September to study to be a veterinarian administrative specialist.
> 
> And to everyone else who have commented, It's not easy to get through to people at all but it's nice to rant to others who understand what you are dealing with.


What does the 'administrative' part of that entail? That sounds really interesting and now I'm curious! :0


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## ArborWeek (Feb 18, 2014)

Well, my beautiful rat Melody used to be a biter, but she never drew blew. That's just how she got to know me. She doesn't really bite anymore, but I wish she did because it shows that she is interested in me. Personally, I think biters are just as nice and beautiful as any other rat.


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## ohmyhi (Jun 18, 2013)

Also to note, yesterday I went to petland and I decided to go into the back and see the feeder rats (obviously I asked before I slipped away). But while there I saw a tank of teenager rats and I decided to put my hand in there. Some didn't come but I want to say 5-10 (WAY too many in a 10 gallon tank) came over and were sniffing my hand and nibbling. None bit me at all! Here I am with my hand in a tank of feeder rats (saying that they usually aren't treated with respect or treated properly) and I wasn't actually bitten, even from fear. 
Anywho I just think that maybe that could help give people some more confident to deal with their rats. But sometimes when you tells someone that they're doing something wrong instead of thinking 'Oh I just want the best for my baby!' they close up. Ugh some people!


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## ArborWeek (Feb 18, 2014)

ArborWeek said:


> Well, my beautiful rat Melody used to be a biter, but she never drew blew. That's just how she got to know me. She doesn't really bite anymore, but I wish she did because it shows that she is interested in me. Personally, I think biters are just as nice and beautiful as any other rat.


drew blood*


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