# Picking them up.....by the tail? O.o



## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

I just want some outside apinions. 

I pick my girls up by the tail if I REALLY have to but try not to if I can. If I do pick them up by the tail I get a grip near the base of the tail and it doesn't harm them at all. It upsets them sometimes but no pain is evident. 

So I just wan't some outside apinions. And apinions ONLY. 

Thanks.


----------



## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

My opinion is that they shouldn't be picked up by the tail. If it causes them discomfort, it's not nice.


----------



## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Forensic said:


> If it causes them discomfort, it's not nice.


True. Picking them up by their skruff is just as discomforting but vets do it all the time. :?


----------



## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

I wouldn't do it personally. It's not comfortable and you risk degloving them. Why risk it if you don't have to? I've NEVER been in a situation where I had to pick them up by the tail. Of course I have very slow squishy manrats.


----------



## JESSU (Aug 8, 2007)

I wouldn't because of this 
http://ratguide.com/health/wounds/degloving_injury.php


----------



## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

The degloving is why I (and anyone else with any sense) pick them up at the base where the tail and the ratsy are connected.

Here is an example. Ok this represents the ratsy= ()( ).......... & this is were I'd grab the tail. ()( )..*........ The thickness of the tail and proximity to the body makes it allmost impossible fo the tail to deglove.


----------



## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

Vets use the scruff of the neck, but it's not painful if done right. That's how mamas pick their babies up. Animals have loose neck skin for a reason, you know. It's not painful if done right.

However, picking up by the tail IS painful (they are stressing because it HURTS and they don't like it) and could easily cause a degloving injury even if you are careful. What if they wiggled just right and you slipped, still maintaining pressure? There IS a risk if you're doing it, no matter how safe you think it make be.

There's really no reason to do it. Why not use the scoop method if you're having problems picking them up?


----------



## renay (May 30, 2007)

wouldn't it be possible to still do some damage to the bones and tissue and such in the tail? If i had a tail... id be pretty ticked if someone picked me up by it.. :?


----------



## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

I would certainly think so.


----------



## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

In what situations do you pick them up by their tail, Sky?


----------



## twilight (Apr 20, 2007)

I would pick a rat up by the tail in a time of emergancy (i.e. the rats life is at risk and its the only way). But I would do it quickly. I would never do it UNLESS it was an emergancy with no other way. Just my two cents.


----------



## Mana (Apr 22, 2007)

I had to grab one of my rats by her tail once. She jumped off my lap onto the floor, and bolted. I leaped after her in sort of a baseball slide-to-home fashion and caught her tail, far enough from her body that I'm lucky it didn't cause any injury. I didn't actually lift her up much, sort of pulled her back a bit so I could get my other hand around her body. She was startled enough to freeze instead of struggle. I would only grab their tail in an emergency if there was no other way.

My vet didn't scruff my rat though, at least not while I was watching. She picked him up the same way I do.


----------



## OhBugger. (Apr 6, 2007)

If I need to pick mine up, I just scoop my hand under their belly and bring it up.
they don't like to be grabbed from above.
the tail just seems too fragile and uncomfortable to be picked up by.


----------



## cashewsmama (Aug 10, 2007)

8O 

i'm too afraid to do it because of the possible degloving effect. if its an absolute emergency than ok, but i've never had such an emergency


----------



## Hippy (Jul 23, 2007)

My vet picks them up by the tail, just the way he was taught and does with all rats. It makes me so mad and sad that I just want to grab the rat back and yell at him, but I should ask him not to before he does but I never get the chance. I also give them treats after for forgiveness. they always seem to accept it. :]]]


----------



## chrisstrikeagain (Apr 10, 2007)

Hippy, i'd really tell him not too. Tell him it makes you uncomfortable wen he does.


----------



## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i've had to grab some rats by the tail but it was in an emergency situation (my mother's mouser cat snuck in the room during play time and i needed to grab the rats before the cat-having rats used to and accepting of cats is not always a good thing when its the wrong cat in the room and under the bed where you can't reach). but i wouldn't do it for any other reason just because its uncomfortable for the rat. i have read about the degloving before but have had no personal experience with nor read about it on a forum, not to say it doesn't happen of course, merely that i've been lucky not to have to deal with it. 

hippy, i'd be cautious of that vet and make sure you verify his diagonis and treatment methods from other sources if i were to use him. degloving is a real issue and CAN happen. not to mention its uncomfortable for the rat. the vet should be concerned for the wellbeing of your rat and that includes its comfort level. there are times of course when putting them through some discomfort is unavoidable but for no reason should they have to be held or picked up by the tail. he could have very well been taught to hold rats like this in school or by another vet and has done it for years without incidence but just because they've done it for a long time doesn't make it right or that something won't go wrong next time. holding rats by their tails is a warning sign for me to look extra close to make sure the vet really does now what they are talking about and their personal habits. some doctors will get in a rut and because tings have worked fine in the past won't explore new options that may be better. 

but in any case, suspcions about the vet aside, you should tell them when making the appointment and then again before you hand them the rat or the door even closes not to pick the rat up by the tail as it makes you uncomfortable about it. if asked why you can state the degloving or that it seems to you that the rats are hurt by it but you should be able to say simply that you would rather they just not be picked up by the tail just because. if they don't respect your wishes then its really time to shop for a different vet. even one that is new to rat care but willing to work with you to find the information is better then a vet that does not respect your wishes.


----------



## Sparker (Jun 17, 2007)

Amen.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Having had a few MIA half wild rats here, I have restrained by the base of the tail until I could get my hands on them, but to lift them by it?...noooo. I have seen a degloving, and besides painful and possible infection setting in, its also very expensive to get that tail amputated. 

I would be very upset if a vet lifted my rat by the tail and I would definitely tell him not to even before opening the carrier.


----------



## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

lilspaz68 said:


> Having had a few MIA half wild rats here, I have restrained by the base of the tail until I could get my hands on them, but to lift them by it?...noooo. I have seen a degloving, and besides painful and possible infection setting in, its also very expensive to get that tail amputated.
> 
> I would be very upset if a vet lifted my rat by the tail and I would definitely tell him not to even before opening the carrier.


Yes, I think that's as far as I would go, too... restraining by the tail until I could get a proper grip. Even then, it would be a last resort!

As for the vet, hippy, I can't see any reason why you can't request that he pick your rats up in the proper way. You can be polite about it. And if he isn't comfortable picking them up properly, then you could also offer to do it for him. Though, I too would be quite concerned about a vet that wouldn't be prepared to respect a customer's wishes and do what is best for the animal!


----------



## JoshDeMott2010 (Aug 25, 2007)

The lady at my pet store made me grab my rat by the tail lol. every time i let my rats freerange they run away when i go to grab them and usualy have to get there tail so i dont freerange with them anymore. lol


----------



## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

well there's your catch 22 for you. they are probably running from being picked up because they don't want to be picked up by the tail, but because they run you end up having to make grabs at their tail. 

perhaps having them in a play pen during free range time or on a leash and then only picking them up by the body will get them less likely to run for it when you go to pick them up. mind you, it seems that they always know the difference of picking them up for snuggles and picking them to go back to the cage before you go to pick them up... don't know how they know but they certainly seem to.... 

another why to get around having to grab for them when they run is to teach them to run to you when you call for them. a few treats, some time, patience and consistancy and you should be able to teach them to come at least 80% of the time you call for them.


----------



## renay (May 30, 2007)

hm forgive me for being ignorant but what exactly is degloving? 

Also, if you think about the body weight of a rat, and how much strain you're putting on the tail itself by picking them up by it, i think you'd be able to figure out the answer to this question on your own, while their tails are strong, they're not THAT strong. I have never been in a situation where I've had to pick my rats up by the tail or even restrain them by it, not that I can remember, but in time of emergency I could definately see myself restraining them by the tail if necessary, even picking them up by it, i would do anything necessary to protect them from danger i guess.


----------



## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

DonnaK said:


> In what situations do you pick them up by their tail, Sky?


It always happens with a new ratsys. I get my ratsys from the pet stores and only god knows why I allmost always pick the one that'll be hardest to train... :? 
So grabing her by the tail always happens when the new ratsy tries to run and gets halve under something by the time I can grab her the only thing to grab is the tail *Sigh* and I pick them up it's just enough to get her off the ground and put my free hand under her then hold her untill she calms down. And you know what? I've only had to pick up girls like this... I guess the boys are just to lazy to make trouble. :roll:


----------



## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

Degloving is when the skin comes off of the tail leaving the bone. It's a defense mechanism so that if a rat is caught by the tail in the wild it has a chance of escaping and surviving (even though mild and probably not for as long in the wild. Possibly only long enough to mate another time if that rat is lucky). 

Exposed bone is prone to infections and if a rat is degloved the tail needs amputated. Sometimes if only the very tip is off it can heal by itself but needs to be very carefully watched:
http://ratguide.com/health/wounds/degloving_injury.php


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Sky14 said:


> DonnaK said:
> 
> 
> > In what situations do you pick them up by their tail, Sky?
> ...


You should never grab a new rat by the tail...that won't help with trust training. You had better google that one. Start with your hand in the cage, so they get used to it NOT grabbing at them. Hands are predators to them, until they learn to trust you. Offer liquidy treats in a spoon while holding it. They learn to associate you with good things in time, but if you grab their tail when they are new it will take a lot lot longer. 

You have to be patient with new rats, either babies or older rats. I take in rescues and get some awfully skittish rats. I go slow, watch their body language and be as gentle as possible while picking them up. For some reason the gentleness when picking them up is the thing that makes them relax and truly trust me, in a short period of time.

Even my half wild rats get scooped up gently.


----------



## chrisstrikeagain (Apr 10, 2007)

I know a situation of deglovin. I didnt see it myself(atthe time i wasnt a ratlver)...but my friend picked up a rat at my store for someone and its tail popped off. Ever since i learned it hurts them(before i had them as pets), i started pickin them up by their body.


----------



## taralyncouture (Aug 23, 2007)

I think you really have to think about how it would feel if someone decided to pick you up by one of your limbs. like a leg. It'd be pretty uncomfortable and on top of that can you think of what it would feel like for someone to "accidently" pull off the skin. Ouch


----------



## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

lilspaz68 said:


> You should never grab a new rat by the tail...that won't help with trust training.


I've had ratsys for over 7 years thank you!!  



lilspaz68 said:


> .....but if you grab their tail when they are new it will take a lot lot longer.


Yes I am EXTREMLY aware of that. My Una was/is very VERY wild and I had to grab her by the tail a multiple of times when I first brought her home and you know what? It took me less than 2 months to tame her. I thought it would take longer because of how scared she was (and still is) of people. I got her to trust, love and respect me but if ANYONE else tries to hold her she freaks out. And I mean FREAKS!!! If I get near her when she's with someone else she will bolt/climb up my body and hide on my neck. But when I first got her she'd hide all the time and wouldn't even look at me halve of the time!!! But with a good combo of forced socialization and respect of HER space it all worked out great.


----------



## Vixie (Jul 21, 2006)

Sky14 said:


> lilspaz68 said:
> 
> 
> > You should never grab a new rat by the tail...that won't help with trust training.
> ...



We've all had rats for so many years, yet it doesn't justify scaring the wits out of them by grabbing their tails. If by some miracle it works for you, whatever, I still don't approve, but it's your thing. I agree with Lilspaz, though, as scaring an already scared rat is no way to gain it's trust.


----------



## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

When I grab the tail I always wait at least 5 seconds before I make another move. That way they can register the fact that I have the tail and then I do everything very slowly as not to make them freak out over why everything looks so different and is moving. 

And I've only ever grabed the tail as a last resort. I NEVER grab them by the tail if I can grab their body.


----------



## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

I make it a rule to never grab my rats by the tail or pick them up that way would you want someone pulling on your spine??


----------



## JennieLove (Jan 2, 2007)

I have to agree with Steph.

If I cant catch my rats properly, then Ill just wait till I can rather than grab them by the tail.


----------



## Sky14 (Aug 18, 2006)

Ok, ok, ok!!! I'm not going to try and justify myself to all of you. All I know is that EVERY time I've had to grab the tail it was/is a last resort.

If you could see my room you'd know why I wouldn't want a ratsy running loose! It would take me DAYS to find and catch a ratsy that doesn't want to be caught!!! The risk of her getting outside is way to high as well. We have at least 10 wild cats living UNDER our house so you do the math!!

Ok. I'm done! You want to continue to argue fine I wont say anything more though.

BYE!!!


----------



## Matt (Jun 14, 2007)

Whoa...Feel Better?...lol...


----------



## renay (May 30, 2007)

... my rats are too fat to grab by the tail, i don't think it would be defense mechanism for the tail to fall off, it would probably rip off lol,they're not overweight but they're solid. i love my babies far too much to imagine picking them up by the tail, even in emergencies.. (come to think of it there was one today where lulu escaped and my cat jumped up onto the desk where lulu was, i just ran over and grabbed lulu around her middle) i don't think i could do it.


----------



## DonnaK (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't think there is anything to add to this post, so I'll lock it to avoid any further bickering. Sky, if you ask a question in a public forum, you have to be expect that you might hear answers that you do not want to hear!


----------

