# Lice **URGENT**



## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

Hello,

My girl rats seem to have an outbreak of lice. I've just treated them with 'Xenex- ultra spot on, insecticidal' so they should be good for now. That was prescribed by my vet when the boys had mites but the vet overprescribed so we had plenty left.

My question: I've now run out of Xenex, next time (if there is a next time) they have mites/lice is there a cheaper over the counter treatment that can be used for rats? In the Uk!

I've heard people in the US use 'Revolution'- is there a UK equivalent?

Also, I've not noticed any signs of lice on the boys and they are very much kept in seperate parts of the house but should I be treating them as a precaution?

Thanks


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## wizzyjo (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: Lice*

since you live in the uk, i assume you will have a pets at home near you? if not you could always order online. i dont like the idea of giving my boys baths to keep them clean because they squeal and dont like the water so to keep my boys clean i use grooming wipes from pets at home, i would assume if the lice are gone then this should be enough to keep them from coming back, also it has byotrol in it which is anti-bacterial and used by vets  
http://www.petsathome.com/find/cate...is-rat/category-is-6F+Health/product-is-18921
this is the link to them 
they sell the matching cage wipes which would be good to give your cage a thorough clean if you cant shower the full thing down or something, once again these are anti-bacterial. 

it would also be good if you put their bedding in the freezer for a couple of hours before putting into their cage, as if the bedding has any parasites or anything on, then this will kill them.

hopefully this will keep the lice/mites away


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

*Re: Lice*

I used beaphar spot on  it worked well for Gizmo's mites - http://www.petsathome.com/find/category-is-6+small+pets/category-is-6F+Health/product-is-14028

If under 300g (I think it's that weight) then the hamster/gerbil version is needed.


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## my_ratters (Mar 27, 2009)

*Re: Lice*

rats can have lice? my girl has wite stuff in her hair :-*


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Lice*

Selamectin (Revolution) in the UK is called Stronghold 

Bearphar Spot-On (Ivermectin) has messed up directions for dosing with ivermectin, so don't follow their directions


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

*Re: Lice*



lilspaz68 said:


> Bearphar Spot-On (Ivermectin) has messed up directions for dosing with ivermectin, so don't follow their directions


Yeah, it says on the box that one dose lasts for a month. However 3 doses can be given 7-10 days apart to ensure all life stages of the parasites are killed (3 doses would be given if treated at the vets). I didn't know this until I asked on a UK based forum, when Gizmo's mites hadn't improved a week after the first dose. It did work well though


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

*Re: Lice*

Thanks for your replies.

That's brilliant, my vet sells stronghold and there's a pets at home fairly close so I'll bare those both in mind.

Unfortunately, strange as it may sound, I don't currently have a freezer so freezing their bedding is not an option. I'm sure that's where the lice are coming from (carefresh), if it continues I might try swiching to fleece but I've found that quite smelly in the past. 

I think I will treat the boys as a precaution and hopefully get them all out of the house. I've done the girls, the cats, showered and hosed the cages as well as a good clean and hoover so fingerscrossed that will do the trick.

Thanks again


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

it's all gone down hill.

I used the xenex on the girls and Henry (neutered boy)- weighed them and used exactly as described on package. Unfortunately Henry has begun convulsing- having tremors, he's really nervous and agitated. 

The package warns that in rare cases small rodents may show 'signs of Central Nervous System Disturbance' and lists tremors and ataxia. It's clear that this is what Henry is suffering. 

I've bathed them all to remove any that may still have been on skin.

The package says that in this case veterinary care should be sought and diazepam or pentobarbitone should be administered to control convulsions.

Henry will be going to vet first thing in morning- he's tremoring every 6 minutes or so but not full on convulsions/seizures. I have diazepam- shopuld i administer it to him, and of so, how much? 

It's horrible to see him like this.

Is there anything else I should be doing?


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

Now Iris and Lily are also showing symptoms. This is a bloody nightmare.


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

I've never heard of that product. Can you not get them all to a vet now?


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

I'm ringing the emergency number now.


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

Corrie said:


> I'm ringing the emergency number now.


Probably wise to, especially with them all showing symptoms.


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## FeffOx (Feb 8, 2009)

Oh dear! 
Good luck with them all!


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

Vet said to bring them in, I'm gonna take all 6 just in case. Taxi is on it's way. I'll let you know what happens!


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## FeffOx (Feb 8, 2009)

** crossing fingers **


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## Lakea (Feb 12, 2009)

It is a problem with my insecticide drugs. Most target the CNS of the insects in order to kill them. The drug is absorbed through the skin and into the rats system., too much given to an animal, or just using it on sensitive animals, will cause the problems you are seeing. Unfortunately you just don't know how they'll until you give it too them. I hope the vet can help them, keep us updated!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Ugh nasty stuff 

I tell people ONLY to use selamectin or ivermectin (very carefully) for any ectoparasites for just this reason!

If you cannot reach the vet I'll help you with the diazepam dosage.
I need his weight and the concentration of the diazepam you have. 

http://www.genitrix.co.uk/2008ProductsRodents-XenexUltra.php


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

Well, we're back from the vets. To be honest, it felt like a complete waste of time and money. It wasn't usual vet or surgery as it's out of hours and the vet seemed clueless and openly admitted that rats weren't her 'area of expertise'.

She observed all of them in the travel cage, when I got Henry out to show her he bit her (completely unlike Henry- since he's been neutered he's the softest rat ever- he just seems overly nervous and skittish with the tremors). She then didn't seem keen on examining him or any of the others and so just watched them in the cage. I showed her the package and the advice about diazepam/pentobarbitone. She said she 'could' administer diazepam but that the tremors would most likely pass naturally.

She's advised to just watch them overnight. She said if he was having seizures or they develop seizures then to take them back for diazepam but she felt it was 'extreme' for tremors.

I'm not sure what to do. I have 4 of them now who are all very skittish and not themselves. They don't seem capable of co-ordinating their movements (Lily struggled to clasp a cheerio) and they are tremoring every few minutes.

Do you think i should just wait and see if seizures develop, like the vet suggested, or give them diazepam? I know it's against the vets advice but I don't trust that she knows her stuff and they seem so unwell. Are there any significant risks to giving the diazepam?

Thanks again


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

If you do think they should be given the diazepam- here's the details-

Weights-
478g- Lily

442g- Henry

387g- Iris

I can't get Mini Maude's weight- she's too scared and intent on biting me atm but she's almost identically sized to Iris and from what I remember weighing them earlier there was very little difference.

The diazepam- I have 5mg tablets. Once it's worked out how much to give each one do I crush them and put in a small amount of baby food or something?

Luckily Edie and Maude don't seem at all affected. the vet thinks they must have groomed it off of eachother- they're a very licky/groomy group and it would make sense then that Edie and Maude would have suffered the least as they tend to get groomed rather than doing the grooming themselves :

Thanks in advance


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Decide it yourself but I will give you the dosages just in case things worsen

http://ratguide.com/meds/central_nervous_system_drugs/diazepam.php

To make it I would pick up Strawberry Quik syrup (where are you?) and mix up a solution thats half the syrup and half water and put it in a jar. Then crush 2 of the pills (total of 10 mg) with 1 ml's of the solution (10 mg/ml). or 3 pills with 1.5 ml's. Rats will readily take this from a syringe and like the taste.

here are 2 recommendations...it can be as mild as you like to just stop the tremors.

3 mg to 5 mg/kg IM; sedation 1

or

1 mg to 5 mg/kg IM or IV; seizures 1



for sedation

478g- Lily .14 - .24 cc

442g- Henry .13 - .22 cc

387g- Iris .12 - .19 cc

for seizures...1 mg/kg

478g- Lily .05 cc

442g- Henry .04 cc

387g- Iris .03 cc


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

Thank you soo much for your help. I'm going to just see how things progress in the next 30 mins/hour before deciding whether to use the diazepam. 

I don't have any of that syrup and it's gone midnight here in the UK but I'll see if I've got something similar to substitute it with. I was going to throw away my syringes the other day- so glad I didn't.

Thanks again, I'll let you know how things are in the morning!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

This is shite for you 

Its only 7:45 pm here so I'll be watching your thread for any updates for a few hours.


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

I hope they're back to normal very soon. That vet was helpful :


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

Thanks guys.

I gave henry and Lily the diazepam solution about 20 mins ago and it seems to be just about starting to work. henry at least seems to have stopped tremoring so frequently.

My biggest concern is Mini Maude- she's by far the most affected. She's constantly tremoring. She's currently seeking refuge in the octoplay and the whole thing is shaking and every now and again she lets out a squeak. I've tried to get to her but unfortunately she's too aggitated and has bitten me everytime. I just seem to be stressing her out. 

My natural instinct is to want to cuddle them and comfort them but they're all terrified! Who's have thought trying to treat them for lice could cause this much trouble?!

Fortunately Big Maude and Edie still seem fine and unaffected and Iris is shakey but seems a lot better than the other three. I just need to convince Mini that I'm not the big bad wolf and that my ssyringe drink is to help not harm :-\


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

Mini just had a seizure... or what i think was a seizure. She went onto her back/side and had legs out twitching and her whole body shuddering. I've managed to force feed (I hate doing that!) some of the diazepam.. I've given her more than I gave Henry and Lily, so fingers crossed it will kick in soon.

She seems less fearful of me, so long as my hands are no where near her and is now sitting in my top shuddering away.

Ugh, **** xenex. Learnt my lesson there!


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

I don't think there's much more I can do for now. I've set up the single level cage so they can be in that together tonight with no risk of falling and injuring themselves. I'm going to get some sleep and hope all is well in the morning.. and if not, hope that I can find a vet who knows what they are talking about if it's not too late.

Thanks again for your help, it's much appreciated. Night guys.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Mini had a seizure. 

After this tell the world how freakin dangerous this stuff is. 

I pray the diazepam helps your wee girl 

((hugs))


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## FeffOx (Feb 8, 2009)

Oh my gosh  

I hope the diazepam works!
Good vibes being sent your way  :'(


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

Hey,

Things seem much improved this morning for most of my critters. Lily and Iris seem to have made a full recovery. Maude and Edie are luckily still unaffected.

Henry is no longer showing signs of tremors but doesn't quite seem himself yet. He's sneezing a lot which is probably just the stress but I'll monitor that it doesn't become a URI. He just seems overly tired but that could be the diazepam and he tried to bite my housemate, which again is not like Henry at all. I'm hoping with him that he just needs a little more time and rest.

Mini has also stopped tremoring but has developed a head tilt. She's completely unbalanced and lethargic and is only opening one of her eyes. My usually very active bouncing girl just fell asleep on me, so I know there's something up! I don't know if this could be a side effect to the seizure or what it is, so we're off to the vet. Managed to get an appointment for lunch time (about an hour and a halfs time). I'm going to take Henry along for the ride just to get him checked over.

I'll keep you all updated!


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## FeffOx (Feb 8, 2009)

Yay, good news that the other rattys are doing OK.
Sorry about Mini, hopefully the vet can help 
More good vibes your way ;D
Keep us updated and good luck at the vets!


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

The vet wasn't sure if head tilt could be a side effect of a seizure but thought that the stress of everything yesterday for Mini may have weakened her immune system and bought out other illnesses. The vet said she's hoping it's an inner ear infection (due to the opening of just one eye and she's tending to push or rub her head into your hand) which is simple to treat. She injected Mini with corticosteroids (I think that's what she said) and a 10 day course of 'amoxi-drops'.

Vet wasn't concerned about Henry, she agreed that the sneezing is most likely stress related. i have baytril and she said to start giving it to him if the sneezing persists.

I've moved them back into their main cage and, except for Mini, everything seems normal again. My girly group are no longer agitated and scared and came running to the door of the cage for their banana today. I'm so relieved. 

Hopefully the treatment will work for Mini and we'll be back to full health again! 

it was only just over a month ago I treated my boy group with the same stuff- they had no reaction, I guess I was just lucky that time :-\


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

If things improve for Mini with the steroid injection, you have a good chance, but if the seizure(s) damaged her brain...you will know soon enough


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## FeffOx (Feb 8, 2009)

Good luck with Mini! :-*


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

Mini seems to have responded very well! She's still got a slight tilt but is running around and I wouldn't know anything had been wrong if it weren't for the tilt. She's seeming much more like her usual self, it's crazy how different she seems to last night and this morning.


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

Mini Maude this evening using big Maude as a pillow.









Just wanted to say thanks for your support over the last 24 hours!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Oh this is wonderful news!! ;D


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## Lakea (Feb 12, 2009)

Yay, I have been checking this thread often hoping for good news, I'm glad you were able to help them!!!


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## FeffOx (Feb 8, 2009)

Yay, great news!! 
*happy dance* ;D


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## Clairebert (Apr 21, 2008)

Yay!
I'm so relieved to hear some good news from you, Corrie. What a hard last couple of days this must have been for you.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

How is Mini today?


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## Corrie (Feb 4, 2009)

She seems fine and there's no sign of the head tilt!

There's been some discharge from her ear so it seems like she genuinely did have an ear infection. It's possible she already had the beginnings of the infection before the lice treatment and that's why she reacted worst to the xenex. I'm not sure really what happened but things seem to be fine now and she's actually really enjoying taking the antibiotics! :

Huge sigh of relief!

They all got soy milk porridge and veggies for breakfast and seem like very happy ratties!


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## FeffOx (Feb 8, 2009)

Im really glad all your ratties are okay, especially Mini


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