# Soy and Corn???



## Felcore99 (Mar 8, 2012)

I've been doing a lot of reading and I'm finding conflicting opinions/stories on soy and corn for rats. Can anyone clarify whether there good or bad and why please? Or maybe some reliable reading material. Thanks a bunch!


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## Sidurah (Sep 28, 2011)

I'm by no means an expert, but I've heard soy is good, especially for the girls as it prevents the mammary tumors they're very prone to. FRESH corn is fine, but dried corn can contain fungus harmful to rats.


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

sidurah, ive heard the opposite about soy! haha there is so much conflicting answers huh? :-/ im def not an expert either tho by any means!


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## Felcore99 (Mar 8, 2012)

Exactly! That's my problem so many conflicting stories. I'm just trying to give my babies a proper diet but it's becoming very frustrating to figure it out. Anyways thanks for your replys guys!


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## JessyGene (Feb 27, 2012)

I thought that soy was good but I just did some research using the scholarly articles from my university database and here is what one article said:

"In *rats* treated with N-methyl-N-nitrosourea, dietary intake of *soy* protein isolate (SPI) reduced mammary *tumor* occurrence but increased incidence of more invasive *tumors* in tumored *rats*, relative to the control diet....Thus, soy-rich diets may influence the development of more aggressive *tumors* by enhancing PR-A-dependent signaling in premalignant breast tissues"

So it prevents some types but increases the chance of others I guess...hmm..are mammary tumors the more common in rats? If so, then maybe it is worthwhile to reduce the chance of them with soy, at the risk of causing other tumors. But i don't really know. Anyone have a definitive answer? I'd really like to know cause I have given my rat soya milk a few times


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## Felcore99 (Mar 8, 2012)

Wow that definitely is better then anything i've been able to find. Yes as far as i've found the most common tumors of female rats are mammory tumors(not sure about males). but i could be wrong. Thanks for looking into that JessyGene!


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

I don't like soy, personally... look up some of the effects a soy-based infant formula has on babies/infants around the world... infertility especially. I think fermented soy products (ie. natto, tofu, fermented soy sauce) are the only ones really safe for consumption.

Corn is fine, either fresh, or heat treated (ground). Dried whole kernels (like the ones in seed mixes) are the bad ones.


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## Sidurah (Sep 28, 2011)

Jaguar said:


> I don't like soy, personally... look up some of the effects a soy-based infant formula has on babies/infants around the world... infertility especially. I think fermented soy products (ie. natto, tofu, fermented soy sauce) are the only ones really safe for consumption.
> 
> Corn is fine, either fresh, or heat treated (ground). Dried whole kernels (like the ones in seed mixes) are the bad ones.


I rarely consume soy procducts (except miso--great in soups!) for just that reason. However, rats a different than humans, so perhaps the soy thing I've heard is true? Maybe I should just feed them miso.


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## Felcore99 (Mar 8, 2012)

Thanks jaguar! I currently have my girls on a soy free diet and I'm going to keep it that way. I don't use the seed mixes I have a mix i make myself supplemented with fresh fruit and veggies daily.


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## shawnalaufer (Aug 21, 2011)

Glad someone else shed some light on this subject- I too could only find conflicting info on soy (however both my babies- human that is- were soy formula kiddos as it was the only thing their tummies could handle. Thank goodness they are past that stage now!)
I just assume avoid it, there are so many other cancer-preventing foods out there. I don't think mammary tumors count as cancerous though. :/


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## Felcore99 (Mar 8, 2012)

Thanks Shawna! I'm trying anyway. I posted a similar thread on Goosemoose.com and an expierienced member there seems very adamant that the whole soy thing is ridiculous. So unfortunately there's no definitive answer here. But as i said above im going to continue with the soy free diet and feed them lots of cancer preventing treats.


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## Felcore99 (Mar 8, 2012)

Thanks Shawna! I'm trying to shed some light but it seems like one of those things where there's no definitive answer. I put up a similar post on another forum and an expierienced member there seems to think the whole soy thing is ridiculous. So I'm just gonna keep my girls on a soy free diet and feed them lots of cancer preventing treats!


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## JessyGene (Feb 27, 2012)

shawnalaufer said:


> Glad someone else shed some light on this subject- I too could only find conflicting info on soy (however both my babies- human that is- were soy formula kiddos as it was the only thing their tummies could handle. Thank goodness they are past that stage now!)
> I just assume avoid it, there are so many other cancer-preventing foods out there. I don't think mammary tumors count as cancerous though. :/


What are some other cancer-preventing foods? I'd like to feed some to my female rat.


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## Felcore99 (Mar 8, 2012)

I've heard that red grapes and oranges (Female's only with the orange's). Do not feed them the orange peel or the skin around the orange segments.


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

i stay away from soy products myself and never gave them to my ratties either, i grew tumors on my ovaries while drinking soymilk! scary stuff! :-/ its good to hear about the different foods! i used to feed my rats a mix with corn in it! i switched to lab blocks as soon as i heard about the corn its scary they allow them to sell it for rats and it has a dangerous food in it :-(


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## Felcore99 (Mar 8, 2012)

Wow I'm sorry to hear that! I hope your better now! The breeder I got my girls from keeps her rats on a soy free diet and has for a few generations now. So i'm worried that they would have a more severe reaction then normal if they were exposed. I'm now constantly checking labels to make sure everything is soy free so I can share my dinner with my babies! It really is scary that they allow that but theres not much we can do but not buy there product and hope they change the ingridients.

You say you switched lab blocks where did you find soy free lab blocks!?


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

its a weird brand they sell at my petco  let me go see what the brand is real quick...


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## Felcore99 (Mar 8, 2012)

That would be awesome!!


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

PF, i guess is made locally by our co op in town, we get alot of weird local stuff haha, but i did see one of the last ingediants was a type of soy! sneaky sneaky!! the lady said it was soy free! hmmm


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## Felcore99 (Mar 8, 2012)

Dang it! Oh well. I've been trying to find soy free lab blocks. The only ones I could find were by HT but I can't find anywhere to purchase them!


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

grr dang i was about to figure out a way to mail u some! ha, HT huh? i live in a weird city, i call it a little big city because we have a costco, fred meyer, walmart, ridleys, albertsons, petco... ect and we have a college, but we are also kinda small! does that make sense? so we have co ops and farmers markets which is awesome!! i dunno if your in a big or small city but some things are sooo hard to find! :-/ its frustrating! at my petco they dont have anything bigger then rat manors there and a small rat selection.


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## Felcore99 (Mar 8, 2012)

Nevermind there soy protien free but they still have soy oil in them. also if the soy ingredient in your rat food is one of the last on the list that means that there is very little in it. the lower on the list it is the less there is in it.

Jaguar can i ask what you feed you ratties?


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## Felcore99 (Mar 8, 2012)

Aww that's very Sweet of you!! HT=Harlan Teklad its a very popular lab block. It does makes sense I love towns like that! I don't think petco usually carry's anything bigger then that I'm 15 mins for Minneapolis and the petco's here don't carry anything bigger then that.


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

hmmm that is very true! i think thats what it was too, soy protien free but has soy oil in it. im in southeastern idaho, its really nice and mountainy around here  i used to work at a library and was surprised at how many ppl researched a city to live in and chose this one because of it being a little big city  my rats love their new food tho so i guess im ok with it haha


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

I fed HT 2018 (Native Earth) for the most part. But now that I'm down to my last rat, I feed Extrusion for hamsters. Both contain soybean meal... I try to cut it down a bit with a homemade grain mix and fresh foods. It's pretty much impossible to find a commercial rat diet that doesn't have any soy product in it.


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## Felcore99 (Mar 8, 2012)

Thank you jaguar. I'm finding that this soy free thing is rather difficult but I'm not giving up! 

Roxy: I would love to end up in a city like that. There's all the convenience of a big city but the country is just down the street. OH! and congrats on the new fur babies!! I'll be adding more to my mischief as well in about a week and a half!


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

Felcore99 said:


> Thank you jaguar. I'm finding that this soy free thing is rather difficult but I'm not giving up!
> 
> Roxy: I would love to end up in a city like that. There's all the convenience of a big city but the country is just down the street. OH! and congrats on the new fur babies!! I'll be adding more to my mischief as well in about a week and a half!


thanks!! yes i love Pocatello, its named after a indian chieftian. if u ever get bored google it  im only two hours away from yellowstone, and about 3 hours from salt lake city and boise which is nice too! but it def a farming and ranch community! we get alot of tractors backing up traffic lol  and there was a moose backing up traffic on the interstate not to long ago haha! im very excited about my new fur babies!! well one will be my furless baby :-D


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