# Shoulder Rats and all out of home rat activities



## Rat Daddy

THIS IS A THREAD FOR EXPERIENCED RAT OWNERS ONLY! 

IT DEALS WITH THE VERY HAZARDUS PRACTICE OF TRAINING SHOULDER RATS AND OTHER RATS THAT WILL LEAVE THE SAFETY OF THEIR HOME. 

THE EASIEST WAY TO KILL YOUR RAT IS TO TAKE IT OUTSIDE! 

THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT FOR THE PRACTICE OF SHOULDER RATTING AND IS NOT IN ANY WAY INTENDED TO ENCOURAGE ANYONE TO UNDERTAKE THIS ACTIVITY. FOR MOST PEOPLE AND MOST RATS IT IS A VERY, VERY BAD IDEA!

IF YOU ARE NEW TO RATS THERE IS NOTHING USEFUL TO BE FOUND IN THIS THREAD FOR YOU. ALTHOUGH THE OBJECTIVE IS TO ASSIST PEOPLE WHO SHOULDER RAT TO BE MORE SAFE AND TO EXCHANGE EXPERIENCES. THERE IS NO COMPLETELY SAFE WAY TO TAKE YOUR RAT OUTSIDE EXCEPT IN A LOCKED CARRIER.

_____________ New Rat Owners Stop Here!________


By way of introduction, I own a true shoulder rat, she's a year and a half old and has been traveling with us since she was 3 weeks old. She's been to all kinds of places pet rats don't go and done many things rats pet rats never do. She has a very special personality and she's undergone very special training. And there's a reason I only have one and I'm working on another, it's because most rats simply don't have the smarts or the personality to be shoulder rats. If you don't recognize your rats limitations, you will kill her. I started training shoulder rats because I had to. A rat phobic in the house meant rat play had to be outdoors. We found a very safe outdoor place and slowly worked up from there. Mostly we learned by slowly and cautiously exploring situations and by trial and error, sometimes we learned things the hard way and some situations blind sided us completely and we just got lucky. Honestly having a great rat to work with was the single biggest advantage we had. Having a true shoulder rat is the greatest rat owning experience I can imagine, but today while we were clearing the poison mushrooms from our safe site, before we released our new rattie there, I was reminded by how long a trip and how hazardous a road it has been.

Lets start with terminology... A "true" shoulder rat is a rat that can go anywhere with you, like a seeing eye dog, it never panics, it obeys comands and it's absolutely people friendly. My shoulder rat has been to two town fireworks shows, right under the rockets, she goes places we can't follow and always comes back on command or within 45 minutes and she's literally entertained crowds when we took her to the circus. We actually got to meet the horse and elephant trainers who complimented us on our rat. There are very few true shoulder rats because most get killed or lost along the way. 

Then there are "limited" shoulder rats. These rats are super well bonded to their owners and can usually go outdoors safely to safe sites (more on that later). They follow the basic come, up on hand and up on shoulder commands. Some are people friendly and can go into stores and handle strangers and/or small groups of people. They have limits as to noises they can handle, people they can greet, places they can go and clearly get very stressed when pushed too far. This is a pretty broad catagory and a good place to stop if you really must take your rat outside.

Lastly there are "indoor" shoulder rats. They do pretty well indoors. They are also solidly bonded with their owners, often they like people, most like to explore within limits but they can't be relied upon to follow a command or to come back within reasonable time. These rats are way above grade when it comes to pet rats, but because they are too flighty or too nervous or too distrustful of strangers, they need the security of walls to be safe. Anyone that owns a rat at this level should be proud of their success and to consider themselves an accomplished rat owner. For most people this is a great place to stop.

Generally the topics I'd like to cover are:


What are the dangers of shoulder ratting?
What rats are suitable for shoulder rat training at all?
How do I find and choose a safe site for training?
How do I know my rat is ready to leave the safe site?
Where do I go from here?
When do I know enough is enough and to stop?

To start the thread, I'm going to address some of the basic dangers and open the topic for discussion.

First the world is full of rat traps, poison mushrooms, poison rat bait, snake burrows etc. If your rat is on the ground you always need to watch ahead of your rat to protect it from hazards it's going to encounter before it gets there. Experienced shoulder rats seem to have a sixth sense when it comes to danger, but never assume your rat can take care if itself.

Doors kill rats, especially car doors. And rats like to balance on open car windows when you are driving, this can end badly. It's way cute when your rat pokes his head out the car window, not so cute when the rest of him follows. Power windows can also kill rats. And cars in parking lots are a major danger.

Preditory birds kill rats. It's pretty easy to spot most birds of prey far off if you are regularly looking up, but owls at night are silent and you will never know it was there until it squaks at you for not putting your rat down and walking away. After dark, stay very close to your shoulder rat.

Toddlers look cute but they kill rats. Unleashed dogs and stray cats as well as foxes and weasels hiding in the tall grass or bushes can kill rats. Beware of shrubs, tall grass and all living things that might be hiding there. Often your rat can sense the danger and warn you, always watch your rat for signs of fearful behavior. Our shoulder rat freaked out when the fox was still 100 yards away and we didn't even see it.

Dense thickets, shrubs and chain link fences are places your rat can get through or into where you can't follow. They are dangerous.

Puberty kills rats. At the age of 8 to 12 weeks rats, especially girls can get attracted to the scent of wild rats or the wilderness lifestyle, just like human teenagers their training is out the window and you're going home one rat short. Most rats that are going native tend to drift away rather than run off... beware the glassy eyed drift! Your "almost" shoulder rat can change on you like flipping a switch. One day she won't leave your side the next she's 50 yards away and peacefully wandering in the wrong direction. 

Lastly for today... there are two things working in your benefit. First your rattie loves you and is firmly bonded to you, it wants to go home with you. Second it's afraid of the great outdoors! It stays with you because it sees you as safety. If your rat isn't properly bonded to you, you lost it before you ever opened the front door of your house. And shoulder rats get used to outdoor places and stop being scared. Then they start to free range... if they are not bonded and don't follow commands, this is where you lose them, not on your first trip out, but rather when they look comfy and happy. Don't let early success fool you. Your rat is never safe outdoors.

OK enough for today... I think this is a good place to stop and focus on the risks, add ones I haven't covered and get the nightmare experiences out of the way. Those of us that have shoulder rat are going to try to answer questions for those that are starting out despite all good judgment and common sense and we can all compare notes... 

If and after we get through basic safety, I'd like to move on to how to know if your rat is a suitable canditate for training and how to find a safe site, how to prepare it, how to train your rat there and how to know when your rattie is ready to meet the bigger world. 

So for now the floor is open to basic safety questions, stories examples and advise...


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## Rat Daddy

For those that aren't sure what a shoulder rat looks like or how stressful it can be... heres a photo taken on a windy day with a zoom lens, I call it "look Daddy no hands"...


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## Rat Daddy

Forgot to mention larval deer ticks... deer ticks actually start out on rodents before they graduate to deer and people. Nasty tiny little buggers. Hard to see, but easy to remove if your rat will hold still.


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## cagedbirdsinging

Rat Daddy has been helping me with my rats and has a lot of wisdom on this controversial subject.

Ulrik has shown to have the best personality for outings and I have taken him on some, but not without his little leash and harness. *This is not a guaranteed safety net. Some rats can slip out easily and be off in a flash if you don't have a second game plan. *The harness is more for my comfort, seeing as how my entire reason for training a "shoulder rat", using quotations because he isn't as much of a shoulder rat as Rat Daddy's girl, is because I have debilitating illnesses that often prevent me from going out without a great deal of anxiety.

My first trip with Ulrik was to Tractor Supply where I got a few toys for him. I have to say that this was the first pleasant time leaving the house that I had had in a long time. A nice old lady came to love on him and the rest of the folks just gave smiles. It was an excellent first experience.

I've since become very busy as I'm preparing to have surgery next month and will be "out of commission", so to speak. I don't know what affect this will have on Ulrik's training but I was planning on getting one or two more boys next spring. One of them may be a good candidate for more outside training.

That's all for now! Just wanted to introduce myself in the thread as one of the shoulder-ratters, even if it isn't in a fully fledged form.


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## Rat Daddy

I bellieve it's actually pretty common that people who start out with shoulder rats have special needs. It takes a certain element of courage to walk out the door with your beloved pet for the first time not knowing what will happen. In my case having a rat phobic in the house and in cagedbirdsinging's case the need for a travel companion gave us the motivation necessary to take the risk. Rats are born escape artists so as long as the leash doesn't give the owner a false sense of confidence or inspire the animal to want to escape, I suppose it's ok. 

Visiting stores is actually pretty safe once you are inside. It goes under the category of indoor shoulder rat. Many businesses are actually pretty much rat proofed because they want to keep wild rats out, which makes it easier to keep pet rats in. I'm not talking about places like home depot. Rather many smaller stores and public buildings are relatively uncluttered and have few hidey holes making a runaway rat relatively easy to retrieve. And the environments in most places of business are relatively peaceful and controlled keeping the rat's stress level low. An indoor shoulder rat usually sees the retail space as just another room and reacts much like he does at home. The biggest risk is actually outside in the parking lot or street. You have to get into and out of the store and most likely to and from your car, and there are moving cars in the lot or on the street. As indoor shoulder rats aren't trained to cope with the outdoors the parking lot may be a short trip, but it's where some of your worst risks are. There's a temptation to think about the store and how you are going to manage your rat inside the store and a real tendency to forget the parking lot. You step out of your car, something spooks your rat a car drives by and your trip is over and your one rat short going home.... By the way shoulder ratters define a bad day as one where you go home with fewer rats than you left with. 

Also when traveling with your shoulder rat you might remember it has to go to the bathroom. Rats don't go before you leave home. So stopping outside the store to go in the lot or grass isn't unusual for a true shoulder rat. You really don't want your rat messing up the store or your shoulder, so unless your rattie can deal with some outdoor exposure your going to need a porta-potty/travel cage your rat knows how to use. If you are working with an indoor shoulder rat and you want to go from one indoor place to another, you really need to take precautions so your rattie never actually gets outside. 

Also keep in mind that many stores have fast moving electric doors that won't stop for a rat. Taking indoor rats from indoor place to indoor place is doable, just more complicated. It's important that you don't confuse your indoor shoulder rat with either a limited shoulder rat or a true shoulder rat. In the great outdoors one mistake can be your last.

Safe site training is critical for either a limited or true shoulder rat. It gives your rat confidence to cross open spaces and gives you a understanding of what to expect when you walk out the door... 

There are more than safety issues associated with stores and public buildings, there's good rat etiquite that makes you a welcome guest, and there are rats that are better suited for visiting stores than others, it's something really worth discussing, but for now remember safety is not all about the store.


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## Munchie

This looks interesting, I'm not planning to attempt to train a shoulder rat (my girls can be trusted on my shoulder around the house but I'd never risk going outside, just in case) but I figured I'd comment so I can read the later instalments


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## PrincessRat

All of my rats go almost everywhere with me and always have...they stay with me and do what I tell them to do. They wait until we're in a good place to potty. They love being greeted and petted by the workers and customers in stores who see their adorableness (though most people keep a fair distance)...I've never had any issues with taking them outside to play or taking them places with me. I'm 15 and my rats have even gone to school with me. 

I don't understand what training is in order?


-Rats are my life-


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## rattyandseekersmum

our 'shoulder rats' go everywhere. only issue is, they arent shoulder rats. they are foot rats. 
they never hop off our feet, but walking down the road with a rat sitting on each foot gets you an interesting look. 
ratty has been doing it for 5 months, and put his foot on the concrete once and almost wet himself. he hated it. same with stones and grass.
and if we tsk at them, they scurry up the legs and sit on our heads. lovely charming little buggers


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## Rat Daddy

As I've got some of the basic safety stuff out of the way, I'd like to move on to and get through choice of rats...

When choosing a shoulder rat there are three basic considerations the rat's personality and the rats looks and it's training.

Easiest part is the rats looks, if your rat looks like anything other than a rat you are going to get nicer reactions from strangers. If people think its a guinea pig of a hamster or some familiar pet they aren't going to freak out as much. Rats with lots of white and or light colors or unusual patterns are distinctly desireable for shoulder rats. Dark natural eyes are also desireable to avoid problems with bright sunlight. Lets face it your less likely to go out after dark and on rainy days than on nice sunny ones with your rat and you don't want to be worrying about how well your rat sees or macular degeneration. Good eyesight is a great quailty in a shoulder rat. If he sees well, he's less likely to get spooked and more likely to be friendly to people he knows and strangers alike. I might add that if you take your shoulder rat out at night, lots of white makes him easier to see in the dark.

Next as to personality... A good shoulder rat is stubborn and confident at home indoors. If my girl sets her mind on doing something, there isn't much I can do other than physically restrain her to stop her... She points her nose in the direction she wants to go and her feet start moving. She also has a super calm personality. She doesn't spook. I don't know if this came from so much experience with stress or if she just started out that way. That's not to say she's never afraid... when it gets dark she heads for the car. When she sees or smells wild animals she runs straight for us. It's not that she doesn't get afraid, just that she reacts calmly and predictably. Predictablility is a key trait of a true shoulder rat. If you know what she is going to do and when, it's easy to manager her because you are always one step ahead. If you can't predict your rats behavior, it's best to leave her inside. 
The second personality trait is that your rat likes people. It should sniff strangers and let them pet and hold her. It should NEVER bite. Rats that bite open you up to lawsuits, and rats that freak out around people are stressed and miserable in social situations. They are usually fine at the safe site where there are few people, but as soon as you take them to a store or playground or gathering, you will notice them tense up and duck under your arm or under your clothes.... This is usually a limited shoulder rat.... It's fine outdoors as it won't run off or get hurt and can be well trained, but it absolutely can't just go anywhere. Pushing this rat into social situations will end badly. You don't need to leave him indoors, but you shouldn't take him to busy stores etc. My best advise is to watch your rat, it will tell you what it can do. Just because you want a true shoulder rat and you made it through safe site training doesn't mean your rat isn't limited.

The third item is training... Mostly this is pretty easy for any rat with a chance. 

1 The rat absolutely needs to know and respond to his name. There's no slack here. If your rat doesn't at least aknowledge it's name, you leave it indoors or you're going to kill it.

2 Your rat comes when called. There's a little slack here... often a rat that is comfy and secure will ignore you at home. It knows you are calling but just like a child it's going to ignore you. In an outdoor situation where things are more stressful, rats actually follow commands much better. In fact, once your shoulder rat gets comfy at a place it knows, it will follow commands more and more poorly. Beware of this, it's normal. This is when you learn to count on your rat's predictablity, when he doesn't come you will know what he is going to do and be ahead of it... For example, a very charming boy rat moved into the town property down the road... My big girl really wants to meet him. So when we get close enough to that property she starts drifting towards the 12 foot chain link fence... and she gets picked up. 20 feet further down the road, she's fine again. *Even a trained shoulder rat is still a rat, if you forget that basic fact you will kill your rat.*

"Up on hand" is another essential command.. just because your rat comes to you that doesn't mean she'll let you pick her up. Up on hand makes management in hazardous circumstances easy.

"Shoulder rat!" is a great command. It gets your rat on shoulder which frees your hands to pay the cashier, unlock the car, etc. It also looks slick and impresses people as does "up on hand". When I go places and people ask, I tell them my rats a trained rat, then I say shoulder rat, she hops up on my shoulder and people gawk and the battle is won. Once they say "that's so cool" we're pretty much in.

The great cheat (not a command, but it's critical and doesn't fit elsewhere)... The real secret behind any kind of shoulder rat is that it's bonded to you. Rats are pack animals and they really want to stay with their pack and that's you. If a rat is afraid it runs to it's alpha and that's you. Everything you do with a shoulder rat is based on it's being bonded to you firmly. This bond gets stretched for a while when your rat enters puberty so be very careful around 8-12 weeks old but otherwise it's your edge in every stressful situation. If your rattie isn't bonded to you and doesn't see you as it's alpha leave it home! I can't stress this more stongly if your rattie isn't absolutely positively part of your pack and if you are not 100% its alpha it is not a shoulder rat of any kind. It's just a pet. It needs to be left in it's cage or at home... No safe site, no stores, no travels of any kind. A rattie that isn't bonded to you will wash out and get killed every time. This is especially important for new rat owners to understand. If you don't understand how a rat bonds to you and really know when it does, you shouldn't even attempt to train a shoulder rat. Yes, you could get lucky and have a rat that's bonded to you, but guessing takes luck and luck is a thin thread to hang your rats life on.

Shoulder rats are absolutely wonderful to watch train and own... They are the greatest joy any rat owner can imagine. Its so cool to impress people and play with your rat in public. Walking my rat at heel has actually stopped traffic. We meet so many great people every time we are out it's mind boggling. But killing your pet rat to try to make a shoulder rat out of it is such a bad idea I can't even begin to caution people against the risks, if you aren't reasonably sure your rat is ready. 

Next step... safe site training, off to play with the ratties for now....


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## YellowSpork

Rat Daddy when you have a chance could you share some tips on training them to get on your hand or shoulder on command? While I don't plan to make any of my rats into true shoulder rats, it would be a convenient thing to train them to do, even if only for vet trips and the like. lol


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## Smilebud

I second that. I know I'm inexperienced but these seem like handy comands to know.


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## Rat Daddy

Princessrat...

There are certain rats, like mine, and likely yours, that are just born to be shoulder rats... They love people, they bond to you instantly, they stay tight with you and your family, they learn their names and commands in a metter of days, but they are honestly the exception to the rule, they weren't screwed up at the pet shop, and aren't hyperactive etc... Often they have owners that can only invest a few minutes every other day with them but want shoulder rats. 

I think we can all come up with more recipes for disaster than success.

And there are certain people that just have a way with the right animals, it just comes natural. When this kind of double lightning strikes, you get someone asking the question you are asking, "What's the big deal? I walked my rat home from the pet shop on my shoulder (or shoes lol) and she's been there ever since." And most natural shoulder ratters with true shoulder rats absoluely can't understand the fuss about taking their rats outside.... We know just how great our shoulder rats are and can't understand why anybody would want anything less.

But the reality is that most people aren't naturally gifted when it come to animals that aren't naturally talented, and many rats don't make good shoulder rats, ever. I hope you can pick up or add a few safety tips on this thread but otherwise your blowing through the first few chapters on safety and training. I really do hope to hear some of your shoulder rat stories though.

I'm actually really glad some other experienced shoulder ratters have turned up. First I'd love to talk rat adventures with you guys. I just took my latest adoption to the safe site for the first time yesterday and I'd love to talk about it and get other experienced opinions about some odd reactions, she's the first adult I've ever trained. But for now, I think we need to consider those people reading along with us who are going to take their rats outside anyway, and give them the safest way to do it and/or stop them from doing something stupid.

Threads on shoulder rats are generally discouraged on forums because they can mislead newbies into doing something stupid with their rats. Some forums actually ban them. This leaves us shoulder ratters without a way of exchanging critical information or having discussions. This forum is very kindly allowing us some leeway here. Shoulder ratters finally get a thread of our own! But in order to be responsible we need to promote safety and not lead inexperienced rat owners to do dangerous things with their rats. 

So safety first, then a description of which rats can and can't be shoulder rats, then safe site outdoor training, then how to deal with real world situations (hopefully by this point people that shouldn't play with shoulder rats will know better) then all things shoulder rat for the rest of us shoulder ratters. Although we can't letitimately want to promote the practice... and least we can all get safer and have a long overdue conversation.

So shoulder ratters, experienced and new... if you absolutely can't be talked out if it by reason or threat of rat death... this is your thread, feel free to join in. If you have questions, now is the time and place to ask and if you have stories to tell, joyful concerned or sad, other shoulder ratters would love to hear them! We posted a warning, we are going to help people keep their rats alive without endangering others and hopefully we will have a little fun doing it.


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## Rat Daddy

Come and up on hand commands are pretty basic... they rely on repetitioin. First you teach your rat it's name... For example our new rat came named Amelia she's 7 months old and I was shocked to realize she didn't know her name... So I called her name over and over and tapped her or picked her up to get her attention, and repeated the process until she reacted to her name. OK it wasn't alway come to me, actually sometimes when she was tired she hopped into her box to avoid getting tapped or picked up. But when I said "Amelia", she knew I was talking to her.

Then "come" is pretty easy too. Say her name and say come... you can offer both treats and hugs or pets and skritches, and always say "Good Amelia" or better yet insert your rat's name here. Repeat, repeat repeat. If you don't get the complete behavior right away reward a partial behavior. She stands up and gets a treat, she comes partially over to you and gets "good Amelia" eventually she will know your command.

Up on hand is the same thing treat or hug reward and repeat over and over and over and over... Be persistant.

On shoulder is even easier. Say Shoulder rat and then flick your rat onto your shoulder.. your rat will learn double quick that when he or she hears "shoulder rat" he's getting flipped onto your shoulder... eventually when you say shoulder rat your rat will just jump up on it's own because it knows what's coming.

The hard commands are Stay! and Wait!. Those took alot longer. But it's a tone of voice thing... You yell loud enough that your rat freezes and reward the behavior. Then your rat will learn that the chain of events is stay!, freeze, treat or wait! freeze, treat. 

Generally I try to get away from treats quickly and substiture "good rattie or good Amelia" and hugs and kisses and then to "good rattie" only. You don't always have a treat handy when you give a command... and you can't always give your rattie a big huggie and kissie in public... 

Lastly there's one thing to understand as a trainer.. when a rattie is stressed and you give it a command it usually obeys, having no better way to cope with it's stress, but when a rattie is comfy it thinks about commands and decides if that's what it wants to do.. Comfy ratties take commands much like people take suggestions. For most rats you won't get anything near 100 % compliance. 

For a shoulder rats you can't expect commands to work all the time but if your rat knows what you are saying your have a fighting chance... For example I was walking my rat along a high chain link fence with barbed wire on top. She made a fast turn and went through the fence. I couldn't follow. So I repeated my come command... "Come to Daddy" and "up on hand" over and over... she changed course and returned to me, but wasn't big on up on hand since she was merrily sniffing her way around... Still she got a great big hug and a heart fealt "Good girl" and a big fuss made over her. Even though commands don't always work, when they do they can save your rat's life. 10% is better than 0%, 50% is better than 10% and 90% is remarkable.


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## Rat Daddy

Safe site training....

So, you've chosen the right rat you've studied all of the dangers I've listed and likely added a few I forgot to list and you have decided to disregard the countless warnings so you are about to walk out the door with your rat. You are most likely going to your yard or the pet shop. Why? Well first you know your yard and you feel comfy there, no one is going to bother you so it seems pretty safe and you know the pet shop, it comes with 4 solid walls and helpful understanding employees if things go wrong and you know pets are welcome. So, you have a plan right?

Not so fast! Just because your yard is safe for you doesn't make it safe for your rat. If your rat tears off a hundred feet in any direction will she still be in your yard? Is there a dog nextdoor on the other side of a chain link fence? How about some large shrubs or hedges for your rat to get lost in? Is there a crawl space under your house or the neighbor's house? Perhaps your yard is a perfectly safe site to train your rat but most I've seen are rat training nightmares.

How did I figure this out? Well trial and error of course, with the benefit of a really super shoulder rat. So we finished indoor training and we took our rattie into the yard for some basic exercises. My daughter carried "Fuzzy Rat" the name came on her receipt, about 20 feet away and I called her and she came to me every time right off the bat. Well it worked about the first 12 times or so then she suddenly stopped, looked around and pranced off into the giant shrubs attached to the hedge row next to the overgrown vacant lot next to my house. Poof, our new rattie was gone, the shrubs were full of old leaves I got a rake but to no avail.. And to make matters worse while I was busy, I told my 5 year old daughter she could play with the wild squirrel she ran across in the bushes and that's exactly what she was doing... Who knew that there were actually squirrels that let kids pet them? 

After 45 mintues of searching and calling, our little 4 inch long Fuzzy Rat sauntered back out of the shrubs exactly where she had gone in. But somewhere in the confusion I realized that my front yard really wasn't a safe place to train rats. Sure it looked safe to me but a rattie has a vastly different perspective. It was also nice to know my rattie came back when called... eventually.

So I made a wish list for a safe site... It would have no hiding places and no places where a rat could get lost, it would have plenty of room if a rattie wanted to run, it would be preditor free, there wouldn't be any intrusive people and it would be conveniently located. 

The perfect safe site suddenly came to mind, I packed up the kid and the rodent, the rat, not the squirrel, we left him in the hedges, and we went to a place called Seawarren Park. It's a whole penninsula about half a mile long with vast lawns, wide water on three sides, walking trails, a couple gazeebows, bathrooms with hot and cold running water, some small tree plantings, and no wildlife except a family of skunks that come out at dusk. It was conveniently located near a dog park so it has practically no dogs. Simply put, it is a rat trainers paradise. So we released our rattie out onto the great lawn and she freaked out. Rats naturally don't like to be in wide open spaces as it turns out. So we moved between two low pine trees and everything got better. We sat on the ground and our rattie played with us, she climbed the small trees, came when called, ran around in the grass sniffed earthy things and we had awesome outdoor fun. We practiced come, up on hand, and even walk at heel once our girl got used to open spaces. My daughter would run and Fuzzy would chase her, then my daughter would chase Fuzzy around. If you've never actually run around in a field with a young rat you have no idea how fast they are, nor how much endurance and stamina they have. You have all seen kids play with their puppies, well delete the puppy and insert a rattie and that's exactly what we had. After a lovely spring week in the park, our rattie climbed/jumped the three foot wall into a 100 by 20 foot planting of low bushes and disappeared. Normally this would be a really bad thing, but it was in the middle of an island covered with grass. So we sat back and waited and true to form our rattie popped out exactly where she went in 45 mintues later. Yes we could have slogged in after her, but she wasn't going anywhere after all and it made a great final test for a what if scenario... what if she wanders off or we lose her? The answer is that she comes back after a reasonable period of exploration. So we walked our rattie about a quarter mile to the picnic grounds on the same peninsula, there she sniffed about under the tables and explored and found scraps of disgusting things to eat under the tables but aside from a propensity to dash from table to table she still followed commands and stayed with us, then my daughter dragged us to the adjacent kiddie playground and introduced our rattie to the kidlets there. The kids loved our rattie, the parents for the most part kept their distance or came over to ask me a few questions about the strange animal their kids were chasing around or being chased by or otherwise holding and petting. And a couple days later we were off and away from the safe site and on our continuing adventure. 

So lets break it down... a safe site needs to have no hiding places from which you can't recover your rat. It needs to have cover because rats hate to be out in wide open spaces. It needs to have lots of running room because rats can traverse about 100 yards in just a few seconds. It can't have any preditors or too many bothersome people. It should have stuff for your rat to climb on, like short pine trees. It shouldn't have moving cars near where you train, and it shouldn't have any rat traps or bait stations. It's a safe site, because it's rat safe.

Well there was one hidden danger there. We took a second rat there to train her, and while we were busy with the other rat, Fuzzy ate some grass mushrooms under the pine tree. They were poison. The other rat was our half wild and she didn't go near the mushrooms. Well to make a long story short Fuzzy threw up on the back seat floor of my car (yuck smells just like human vomit) on the way home and almost died in my arms that night. I called the local night vet and they wished me well and told me there was nothing they could do, so I gave her plenty of water and milk thistle to protect her liver and she recovered after several hours of touch and go. This is just a reminder that no outdoor place is completely safe for rats. Now we police up the mushrooms whenever we go to the safe site but I think Fuzzy has lost interest in the toxic fungi. Another good lesson is to take only one rat for training even at a safe site one rat can distract you while the other does something stupid.

So what did we acomplish at the safe site... first we reinforced our rats training, second we really got to know our rattie, she liked to climb trees, she loved to run and play, she didn't like open places but got used to them, she liked to roam and explore but always came back the exact way she left... she didn't get lost. She stayed on shoulder when we walked and even walked at heel. She asked to get up and motioned to get down, she didn't just jump away, we knew a lot about our little girl after a week or so at the safe site and Fuzzy became much more confident, she ran around in the open field, she climbed trees and she learned to trust us and to run to us when scared. Often it was clear to see what Fuzzy wanted and it was the first time I realized that rats intentionally try to communicate with their humans. We also learned she liked people and wasn't shy around strangers and we got some practice dealing with kids and their parents. Every person you meet makes both you and your rat better at dealing with strangers, and the safe site was a great place to start to learn that skill both for rat and human.

We did a couple of training sessions through dusk and discovered that our rat apparently can't see well in the dark and gets generally stressed after nightfall. Once it got dark she pretty much stayed glued to us or amazingly enough went to the car.

Safe site training is absolutely the best way to start out shoulder ratting. You get to know all about your rat and he gets to know all about you, if things go terribly sideways and your rat panics, no problem, if her runs away, no problem he's running to the nearby tree or shrub you picked for him to run to; where he will be easy to recover. You get to safely practice shoulder ratting and your rat learns to be a shoulder rat without all of the risks associated with playing out in traffic.

When we left the safe site Fuzzy was a shoulder rat and I was a shoulder rat owner/trainer. Within one month from the safe site, we attended the towns handicapped children's picnic and Fuzzy went child to child giving kissies and getting huggies and skritches from kids with down syndrome and in wheelchairs, the fire department ran the affair and we attracted lots of attention... Fuzzy kept entertaining the kids until she finally collapsed from the heat and we had to rush her home to the air conditioining, that night when it cooled off we took her to the fireworks show and after the first salvo of bombs, that seemed to shock her a little, she hung onto my arm very tightly and watched the fireworks with us in the dark out in the open surrounded by people. Later that summer we took our daughter to the beach at the lake in the mountains and Fuzzy swam in after our daughter and then swam person to person finally resting on some rather large fellow's bald head... He thought it was funny and had his kids take photos. And yes there were ouchies... 5 kids one rat down one slide at the same time and her tail got cut somehow and between my daughter and other kids a few toe nails got pulled out, but everything healed and or grew back and she never bit anyone. She gets her own free ice cream at DQ, cheese treats at the pizzaria, doggie treats at the pet shop, we took her to the circus and the professional elephant and horse trainers actually complimented our rat. And it all started out at the safe site. That's where real shoulder rat training gets done.

Now if your rattie doesn't get comfy at the safe site you should stop there and bring her back inside. Its over if you can't manage your rat under safe site conditions. First your rattie should stay with you like glue, then it should shuttle between you and the tree or shrub (natural cover), then it should explore into open space and follow you around. It should come when called and do up on hand at least most of the time. If you can get either stop or wait commands down here that would be nice but not critical. Natural shoulder rats and intuitive shoulder rat trainers blow through safe sit training in as little as a few visits. If you watched us do it, it looked like a play at the park, which it was. 

On the other hand, we took our new 7 month old adoptee out for the first time yesterday... She stayed close by and explored the sheltered places under the tree, then expanded to run into the open for about 200 feet and then dashed back on command.. nice confidence, She didn't panic in open spaces and spotted people coming from a distance, so she probably has good eyesight. She climbed her first tree and the branches confused her, but she did pretty well overall, she didn't like to stay on shoulder opting to be put down and picked up over and over again, not all good but she was so good with commands, that can likely be dealt with by training, but when a jogger ran by Fuzzy approached to greet the jogger, while Amelia dove for cover under the tree. It's only day one, but fear of strangers will finish her as a true shoulder rat. She's so bright and so sweet it would be a shame to wash her out. But if that's what needs to be done; that's the end of being a true shoulder rat, she's going to watch her cagemate go out and have fun while she stays home alone in safety or goes only to the safe site and a few safer places. 

You absolutely want to wash out rats that can't cut it as true shoulder rats at the safe site. They may not become shoulder rats but they are still cute and friendly pets or even indoor or limited shoulder rats. And most of all they are still alive. Consider your rattie's behavior carefully before leaving the safe site. The next time you or your rattie screw up out in traffic, in the woods, at a home depot or at a town fair, your rattie will be either lost or dead. This is where it stops being all play and the paranoia should kick in. Almost every decision you make can end badly for your rattie. If your rattie is predictable, calm and well trained, the risks are manageable. If she isn't you won't have a shoulder rat for long.

Not to worry... if you did your work at the safe site and you have the right rattie, it gets easier every day. It's 2 AM and they just put fresh hotdogs on at the Shell Convenience Mart. I'ts a 5 minute walk down the shoulder of the industrial highway behind my house, I just might pop Fuzzy on my shoulder and get a midnight snack before going to bed... The darkness, and 18 wheel semi's crusing by a few feet from us won't bother my rat and she'll try to meet and greet anyone at the store. I can wear her like a jacket... thats a true shoulder rat and man is it great to have one.


By the way, the safe site is also the best place to teach outdoor potty training. Yes you have to teach an indoor rat it's ok to go in the great outdoors. And then in the litter box when you get back inside. Multiple options are confusing to ratties. And please don't forget that even when your rattie goes out to the safe site, he needs indoor bonding and play time too. Actually, he will want even more freedom in the house after romping around outside. Successful shoulder ratters spend many hours each day with their rats. Shoulder rats don't need less attention than pet rats, they need much more and more consistantly. If you can't put in the time, leave your rat in her cage or at home.

Next topic "beyond the safe site", stores, parks, crowds, kids, playgrounds and people people people everywhere...


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## Rat Daddy

From this point forward we need to aknowledge that there are three types of rat owners.

There are those of us who keep their ratties safe at all costs. They range from newbies to some of the most experienced people on this forum. They would never take their rats outside without a locked carrier, they would never let a stranger into their rattery, they keep excellent quaranteen for new rats, they feed the finest foods and avoid treats, and they are great rat parents. Their philosophy is to avoid risks. And for the most part they think a thread like this is crazy because shoulder ratters are taking way too many risks.

Then there are the reckless shoulder ratters. Anything goes... Mostly, they ignore risks. If they get very lucky and start out with a great rat and they have certain natural animal handling skills and intuition they get away with way too much. The fact is that forturne favors the foolhardy and rats are incredibly smart and will do alot to avoid getting killed. Some people don't see the risks, but others find out where they screwed up too late... Everyone knows at least one story about a rat that got lost or killed outdoors, most of these strories are unfortunately true. I'd really like to get some folks out of this category with this thread. I know even the most reckless shoulder ratter loves their rat. If you are reckless, and you still have a shoulder rat, it's because your rat is very likely super smart and you have been lucky. It's just a matter of time until things go badly. 

The third group of rat owners are shoulder ratters that manage risks. Like a skydiver that carefully packs their own parachute, or a race car driver that builds a safer race car we understand that the big world is dangerous and take precautions to try to keep our rats as safe as possible. Things will still go wrong, a skydiver will still encounter a freak crosswind, and a racecar driver will still crash but if they did everything right they have a better chance of surviving as cautious shoulder ratters have lots of stories of close calls, but few dead rats. 

Now on to beyond the safe site...

So where does the first time shoulder ratter usually go with their new shoulder rat? To the pet shop of course. They need to buy rat food and supplies anyway. They want to show off their new shoulder rat to the people there they know. They know the place is going to be rat friendly. And the employees there can actually help if things go wrong. It's actually a very exciting day if all goes well. The staff is going to greet you with open arms and smiles and the patrons are mostly animal lovers that are going to pet and even hold your rattie and you are going to really get to show off and meet lots of admiring strangers and fellow rat owners that wouldn't think of taking their rats outside. 

There's no way I'm going to change this fact. Just about every shoulder ratter is going to the pet shop with their rat. But you can manage risks here if you understand them. 
First there are a few lethal airborne viruses that might have come in to the store from the wholesalers or from rats people have turned in. If your shoulder rat catches one it can die and kill all of the rats you have at home. But we are managing risks, not avoiding them. The actual risk of catching one of these viruses is lower than the risk you took crossing the parking lot to get into the store and going through the electric doors. Whereas none of our group one indoor rat owners would ever take this kind of a chance, a shoulder ratter isn't even going to hesitate. The only thing you can do is check out the small animals at a distance and if they look sick get out of the store in a hurry. Pet shops will almost never admit their animals are sick so don't count on the employees to warn you. But rat farms, wholesalers and stores do take precautions to protect their rats from plagues, because dead animals don't sell well, so the odds against catching the freak airborne virus is very low. It's a calculated risk in your favor.

Most risks at the pet shop actually come from contact transmitted issues. The biggest one is mites. If a pet shop gets mites in their feeder bin, they aren't likely to treat it. Reptile owners don't want their food "pre-medicated". So a minor mite infestation that isn't going to harm reptiles is better than poisoning an expensive snake. Especially when feeder rats turn over much faster than they can die in the store. There are also contact communicable diseases, but they go under the same category. There is a much higher risk here. My daughter wanted a pet mouse, and brought mites home from the store. As the mouse never got into contact with the rats, it didn't seem to risky but mites can spread on hands and that's how we learned about revolution. You don't have to put your rat into the feeder bin to spread mites or contact diseases you just need to touch one animal and then the other. Now most employees at the pet shop don't handle the small animals and they are relatively safe, but the ones that do should never handle your rat. And if you handle an animal at the store, you absolutely need to wash your hands before touching your own rat and you never let your rat come into contact with pet shop animals. Most pet shop employees that handle small animals wash their hands when they go home if they have small animals, some even change their clothes. Every pet shop has a washroom, and most stock antibacterial soap there. They won't mind if you wash your hands. Thats risk management. By washing your hands and not letting employees that handle small animals touch your rat unless they wash first you are avoiding the worst of the risks.... I might add that at one store a very clever manager, told me his employees were prohibited from touching animals people brought in to prevent his store animals from getting sick. Even some pet shops understand the risks and work to minimize them.

Most likely, you survived the pet shop visit. And if you made it through safe site training and through the pet shop you should be really proud of yourself and your shoulder rat. So you are going shopping. And to your great surprise and delight shop keepers are letting you in. The fact is, that they are not really happy to see you, but they have no idea what to do, most likely yours is the very first shoulder rat in their store. They are standing there with their painted on greet all customers smiles waiting for the second shoe to drop. What happens next depends entirely on you. So lets start with a few basic rules...

First never sneak a rat into the store and pop it out later. People hate to be tricked. If they see your rat coming in and they let you in, most likely they aren't going to toss you out later. If your rat pops up out of nowhere the clean up in isle seven is going to be you.

Second, stay 15 feet away from everyone until they see your rat. Enter isles cautiously and be careful around blind turns. One rat phobic running out of the store screaming and you are out forever. At a safe distance of at least 15 feet (5 meters) people will do one of three things, first ignore you and that's fine, move away from you and that's ok too, and third approach you to meet your rattie and that's lots of fun to a point. 

Our first visit to our local chain store pharmacy started out badly, the cashier was clearly afraid and went to get the manager. At the same time we were approached by three young ladies with kids who wanted to meet our rattie and we began talking to them, while they were petting and skritching our rattie, one kid ran outside and brought in another 4 adult women and their kids which in turn attracted more shoppers from inside the store so we were quite a crowd at the front of the store. I saw the manager watching from a distance with a look of real concern. After about 10 mintues the mob broke up and everyone went shopping in the store and with each and every item the people picked up the manager started to smile more broadly. Her slow tuesday afternoon was just getting better and better and with more people still coming in from the parking lot as leaving patrons were telling people on the street that there was something novel to see in the store the manager was nearly extatic by the time we finally hit the check out and checked us out herself with a "thank you, *please* come again" send off. The next time through, the entire staff had clearly been retrained. 

Although everyone had to be courteous to us, that didn't make the cashier any less fearful of rats. So next time we approached the register the same cashier turned whiter and whiter and her eyes got bigger and bigger until we reached the counter. So I asked the girl if she would feel better if we kept our rattie on our side of the counter and the cashier said thank you and changed back to her normal color. 

So this is another lesson about stores. Often employees are trapped behind counters, at registers or at their stations. They have to come within 15 feet from you but counters and other barriers make them feel safe. Never violate the counter space. Keep your rats off counters and shelves and generally the floor in stores. If the check out girl asks to see your rat, then it's OK, but otherwise store employees are trained to smile that doesn't mean they are rat friendly. If you freak out the staff, you won't be welcome at the store.

As to places that serve foods... The law varies from place to place, but in general retail food establishments have to make physical improvements that "keep rats, mice, roaches and other pests out" They can be held accountable for that and get fined. Most states have no laws the differentiate between pet and wild rats. All rats are usually considered pests in food handling and selling establishments and wildlife elsewhere. Generally as a rat owner you can't get in trouble with the law, but the store can. The cops that hang out at our local quick check call our rat the little health code violation. As in, "How's our little health code violation doing today?" When it comes to cops that joke apparently never gets old. But because our shoulder rat is so charming and well behaved they overlook the apparent contridiction of a rat in a food store and most will give her a little skritch when they see her. The health inspector, advised us he is off duty at 5:00 PM so we don't accidently cross paths and he never has to make the call as to whether our rat is a pest or a pet, this is a great courtesy from our local officials and we don't abuse it. In general, food business that serve kids solicit our business by giving our rat treats. She's super well behaved and she attracts kids. DQ gives her her own ice cream and one pizzaria gives her cheese. Places with an older clientelle generally disapprove of any rats. But as you never hide your rat when you walk in, most stores that prohibit shoulder rats will courteously advise you of their no pet policy at the door and there no harm no foul, you smile understand and leave. Never argue. The McDonalds manager asked us to leave the first time there, so my daughter took our rat outside... all of the kids in the place followed with their parents, and all of the kids and parents that were otherwise going to McDonalds hung out outside with us while we ate and the restaurant got awfully empty. The manager helplessly watched through the glass from inside while her rush hour crowd stopped met our rattie then forgot to walk in and passed her store by. There were over a dozen kids playing in the parking lot and no lines at her counter. Honestly I took no small satisfaction from this and decided to hang out a little longer than usual.... My daughter made a point of telling the other kids the place was no rat friendly. So the next time we went to McDonalds I asked my daughter to wait outside and I went in to get dinner. The manager spotted my daughter outside and sent the assistant manager right off to invite my daughter in where the entire counter staff made a big fuss over our rattie. The kiddies all stayed inside, the parents stayed in line buying junk food we met several new people and made new friends and the manager watched from a distance with a confused scowel on her face. She obviously didn't like rats, but she wasn't going to lose another dinner rush to one. So, now there are at least two McDonalds that allow shoulder rats despite their no pets policy. The other one is managed by a friend of mine, and he immediately saw the attraction our rat posed for kids and made us feel welcome right from the front door.

Still.... food establishments have to deal with the health department, they are taking a big risk letting you in depending on your locality and the understanding of the health inspector. NEVER bring a rat in that isn't absolutely, positively 100% well trained. (And if you are going into a Duncan Donuts, not all rats can resist all of those donuts like our can.) NEVER let your rats go on the counters, tables or floors! Rat droppings and hairs can get someone's permit revoked. NEVER let on duty food handlers handle your rat. Your rat may be clean but other customers don't know that and they might get disgusted. NEVER argue with the staff it they ask you to leave, they might just welcome you in the next time if you don't make it a matter of principle. And it's their business and their risk. And keep in mind, your local places of business got to know your rat when she was cute and little and look forward to seeing her back. Once your rattie is full grown she's not nearly as cute and when you are on the road and go into a new place all they see is a huge rat they don't know. What you can do in your town with your local businesses and local police and local health inspector isn't going to be the norm elsewhere... Keep in mind when you travel to be extra polite and extra cautious when you enter someone's place of business, especially if it serves food.

Also keep in mind the other patrons in the store are your greatest allies. Be super nice to them, offer to let them meet your rattie. Stop and chat with them, reassure them that your rattie is "trained and friendly" Keep those two words on the tip of your tongue! Store managers are watching how other patrons react to you. If you draw an admiring crowd, you're in. If people leave the store your next. My daughter hates lengthy meet and greets in stores, a 5 minute pick up can turn into a mob scene but as long as the shoppers are curious and having fun your an attraction they want. Even the fearful checkout girl at the pharmacy, now always asks where's my rat if I don't have her along and how's she doing? Customers apparently bring their kids to the pharmacy in hopes of seeing the rattie there, and kids impulse shop, when I don't bring the rat they are disappointed... how's that for backwards logic?

Visiting businesses, is a matter of managing people as much as it is a matter of managing your shoulder rat. At the safe site you were only concerned about your rat and before you left there you should have had your rat 100% under control, and thats well before you went anywhere else. In a retail space, you are either innocuous, attactive or offensive to the management. If you improve business, retailers really like you. If you don't scare customers away, they tollerate you. If someone runs out of the store shreaking or the staff runs for the back room you are out fast, although it's never happened to us, it's just a given. Introduce your shoulder rat to the businesses you are most likely to go to while she's small and might be a mouse, hamster or gerbil and they will welcome you as she grows up. Keep her on her absolute best behavior knowing her limitations and follow the rules I listed and you will do very well in retail establishments. Retail adventures are only for true shoulder rats and the very very best limited shoulder rats. Because you have to go outside through the parking lot on across a busy street indoor shoulder rats shouldn't go into stores.

As to other public buildings, our shoulder rat is allowed into every space except the public library... unfortunately we ran across a large enthusiastic group of teenagers there one day and it got just a little too loud too fast for us to manage. And librarians are all about quiet. So in public places other than retail just because your popular with the patrons, and as the patrons aren't paying the bills, you might still not be welcome. Forewarned is forearmed.

Next we move on to the untimate risk, adventure and challenge... the great outdoors.


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## binkyhoo

Rat Daddy. Wow. That is an excellent composition. Are you a writer? I say tidy it up, do some editing and submit it to a pet magazine.


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## Rat Daddy

Thanks binkyhoo, yes actually I am a published author, I do occasionally write for magazines and get paid for it... Actually your right about cleaning it up, writing is the fun part but it's in editing your work where you earn your money.

For a long time, I pretty much assumed that there were very very few people taking their rats outside their homes, then from reading posts here I realized it was more common that it likely should be. For very good reason, the topic wasn't generally discussed on line but after seeing several threads on the subject I thought it needed to be adressed and with the very kind indulgence of this forum I'm hoping this thread will be useful for all of those people who engage in shoulder ratting. So writing is what authors do... I just hope it saves a few ratties from preventable accidents.


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## RatMama13

I have a rat who s quickly learning up on hand and shoulder rat. As well as come of course. When i feel she is ready i want to take her to a safe site. But i do not know where that could be. My yard is too open and not fenced. We have a local park but I'm not sure if it would be an appropriate safe site.


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## Rat Daddy

Welcome to the great outdoors!

There are cars, trucks and busses rumbling past, there are wild cats in the tall grass, theres a fox in the woods, there are people walking their dogs without leashes, there are toddlers with grubby grabby hands around every corner, there are silent and deadly owls overhead at night and hawks and eagles during the day there are snakes in their burrows and under logs and leaf piles, and there are popping tires and horrible loud sounds comming from the autoshop down the road. And as you look closer, there are poison bait stations in the kiddie playground and around the commercial buildings in your town and poison muchrooms in the grass and kids skateboarding and riding their bikes on the footpath and giant snapping turtles in the pond and forests, marshes, hedgerows, unkempt vacant lots and brownfields for rats to get lost in and all of a sudden it looks like the whole world is out to get your shoulder rat. In fact it is.

OK, now you can breathe again... Shoulder rats deal with these hazards every day with the help of their trainers. In fact wild rats make their living outdoors and thrive in the big dangerous world. But they aren't put in harms way by their owners. And they have special skills and instincts to keep them alive.

So to be absolutely sure before we go on.... you have finished safe site training. You have done the retail thing so you've already crossed a couple of parking lots and you have encountered a few people so you know how to deal with strangers and set them at ease with a smile and the refrain 'she's trained and friendly' Your rat comes when called, does up on hand, is people friendly and doesn't spook easily. So I suppose you are as ready as you can get for the outdoors.

So lets go to the park and lets do it in daylight first. For our first outing lets park where if your rat panics or runs back to the car it isn't going to cross traffic, a nice end space right up to the sidewalk or lawn would be nice, so lets try for that. Lets wait for all of the moving cars to stop or leave before we take the rattie out of the car and then lets head strait for the grass and away from traffic. Now look up. No raptor is going to swoop down and take your rattie from your shoulder but if you intend to put her down a hawk or eagle or other bird of prey can ruin your while day. Scan the sky and the trees for large birds. Seagulls don't eat rats nor do ducks and geese your looking mainly for big soaring birds or big birds in tall trees. If you see them, it's time to go home your outing is over. If you don't, keep looking up regularly way better safe than sorry. Now look around for a place similar to your safe site, away from woods, tall grass, marshes or obvious hideyholes and put your rat down so she can go to the bathroom, you don't want a wet shoulder do you? After she does her business, let her follow you at heel or pick her up depending on your shoulder rats capabilities and try to find a fence or rail. Put her on the fence or rail and have her walk along side of you. Make sure you have access to both sides of the fence so she can't get away by just hopping down on the side you can't go on. Stay clear of the marshes, woods, and tall grasses. Now lets take stock of our surroundings... there right next to the kiddie playground is a trash can, next to that there is a rat burrow and next to that is poison bait station. So the wild rats are eating the trash and not the poison, all good, but both the attractive scents of the wild rats and the poison bait are bad for your shoulder rat and you draw an imaginary line around this obsticle you don't let your rat cross. Then you take a long look at the tall grass and you realize there are feral cats there and someone is feeding them. Great, they aren't going to bother you or your rat as long as you are with her but you draw another imaginary line and don't go into the tall grass. You put your rattie on the ground and you both take a walk down the paved path when you reach a blind turn you pick her up and a few kids on bikes blast past you and you're glad you picked up your rattie or she would have been squished... When you can't see what's ahead or next to you or behind you, you automatically pick up your rat and put her on shoulder. In fact she should only touch the ground when you can see at least 50 feet in every direction 100 or 150 feet is even better. Along the way you meet some nice people who want to meet your rattie, you make sure they have 15 feet to avoid you, but they come closer so you let them pet and hold your rattie and have a little chat... two other poeple passed by and you made sure they had plenty of room to get by and didn't feel crowded or offended and aren't likely to call the cops to complain. When you get to the playground there are about a dozen kids there and they saw your rattie and they are coming fast... get your rattie up on hand immediately! Then greet the kids, look around the parents are nearby but they are holding off at a distance. Now you say loudly and so the parents can hear you "This is our rattie (insert name here) she is trained and friendly and likes kids. She never bites! Would you like to meet here?" Trust me this is a polished script, I've done it a thousand times exactly as I wrote it and it works better than anything else you are likely to come up with at the spur of the moment. And by the way it better be 100% true or you are getting sued when a kid gets bit!!!! If your rat is afraid of people or bites, it isn't a true shoulder rat and it shouldn't be in the park.

Then get your back against something, kids sneaking up behind you is a bad idea and get the kids to line up to meet your rat. If you are mobbed, try to get to a picnic table and get the kids across the table from you and your rat. Too many flailing hands and a couple of toddlers and your rat is getting her tail pulled or a kid is going to walk off with her. I got caught sitting down at a birthday party once and had 16 little girls on top of me before I knew it. Hands hands everywhere... who's got the rattie? The kids had a great time, my shoulder rat loves chaos and was in her element, I almost got crushed and not a single parent raised a finger to help me. There was a clown at the party before I got there to pick up my daughter, but as I was told we stole the show. I got a doggie bag of food to take home for my trouble. Kids are lots of fun, but don't let it get out of hand, don't get blindsided, if you see one kid there are likely more and it's easy to get mobbed.

So your still at the playground and eventually you talk to some of the parents, some are interested in rats of their own and others just curious, but watch your rattie while you talk to the adults because when kids and young rats are on the same playground your likely to have a game of rat tag break out, espcially if you have a kid of your own with you to help instigate the madness. Rat tag is when your rat chases kids around the playground and they chase her back and in a matter of seconds you can't see your rat in between a dozen stomping running little feet. And having been there; it's terrifying! Now my rattie is older and slower, she still likes to lead the kids around the playground, but she weebles and they walk behind her and she'll try to run, but she isn't very fast anymore and the kids jog along at a short distance and it's all so much safer and better... but my rat enjoys it and the kids love it, so I'm the guy on the sidelines screaming "Watch your feet!" whenever the kids get too close. So beware your playful shoulder rat, she's relying on you to keep things from getting out of control.

Finally you are past the playground and you look up and the sky is clear of preditors for miles and miles and the weather is nice and you want to sit down and rest after the madness, so you might as well send your rat up a tree. She'll come back on command right? Trees are nice, my rat will hang out in a tree until I call her down. It gives me a chance to rest and her a chance to climb something. I try to pick a tree that's not too big and away from other trees so she's not going to explore too far. And I never do it near dark when owls might be out and about. If I gave you the impression your rat will come right back on command I may have stretched the truth a little, in actuality after about 45 minutes climbing around, she'll come right back on command. 

So we've have had a fun day at the park, and it's gettin dark and all of the teenagers are out and about and it's time to go home so we have one last bit of fun. I put my girl on the ground and tell her we are going home and to go to the car... (its a no brainer for a smart rat, rats are great a mazes and once your rat knows the park she knows where the car is and when it gets dark that's where she is going anyway) and as you go along you impress onlookers an often pick up an escort gasping in amazement. Its just a fun trick to do.

Why did we go to the park, well first of all it's legal, your rat is legally wildlife outdoors and wildlife is permitted in the park. The park has wide open spaces and few places to disappear and you usually have 150 feet of visablity and few crowds. And there are no motor vehicles to worry about. With all of the obvious dangers it's still not the worst place to go.

Now how about places not to go? 

Auto and tire shops, there are tires popping and air guns. I had to get a couple of tires so I put on my shoes and my rat and drove down to the tire shop. The fellow fired up his airgun and took off the tires then bang, the tire popped on the machine and I had twenty new tiny piercings in the side of my neck... And on the way out, the man said, "Wow, your rat did a lot better than the last one a kid brought in." In any event my rattie spent the drive home under the coat on the passenger seat freaked out... Nothing panics a true shoulder rat, but auto shops and fireworks come very close.

Schoolyards are dangerous to shoulder rats. Schools attract wild rats and wild rats attract shoulder rats, especially your girls. Schools may be a safe place for kids, but if your girl shoulder rat smells a hot young bad boy wild rat, all bets are off. You can't beat mother nature.

Marshes, forests, swamps and anyplace with leaf piles or thick shrubs are dangerous to shoulder rats in training. Although older shoulder rats are pretty mellow, some of the younger ones will run off to explore, most come back within an hour, but it's an hour on edge you could have avoided.

Outdoors during puberty is another challenge.. at 8 to 12 weeks old some rats especially females will change their personality and have an instinctual drive to go off and find a new pack. Likely it's an instinct that keeps rat packs from becoming too inbred. But if you have a girl rattie at this age and her personality flips, keep her indoors or she'll leave you, no training is going to help. She will become superactive indoors and climb everything, she will drift away from you and hang out at a distance, she will become very warey of people and then she will just walk away one day and won't come back when called. It's just nature, wave bye bye and start over with a new rat. If you miss the warning signs and they come on fast, you are going home one rat short. If your very lucky your rat might come home when it gets cold out, but otherwise she's off to lead a life on her own and it's just like sending your kids off to college; you can hope for the best.

Another important tip is that rats have an operating range between 60 and 85 degrees F. You can keep them under your coat when it's colder and spray them with water when it gets a little hotter and there's a breeze, but overall keep their temperature requirements in mind when you go outside. If your rattie goes flat and squishey on a hot day get her to air conditioning immediately.

Always remember your shoulder rat is faster than you, she's smart and observent and there's only one reason you have a shot at taking her anywhere. It's because she wants to be with you and go home with you. If you shoulder rat, do it consistantly and don't let your rat get out of practice. After a long winter indoors start out at the safe site in spring and bring her back up to speed if she hasn't been out for a few months. If you have a shoulder rat spend several hours every day with her indoors and outside to keep your bond strong and fresh.

Lastly always be aware of your surroundings and how stressed your shoulder rat is, if you got this far you know when your rat is stressing out and you should be able to spot trouble coming. Don't get careless, your rat is more likely to wander off after she gets comfy outdoors than when she's afraid of the big wide world and won't leave your side. And remember whatever happens it's your fault! No matter how well your shoulder rat is trained or how calm her disposition or how many times you've done it and how well you manage risks, the best way to kill a rat is to take it outside. 

So, we've covered the basics, if something comes to mind that I missed I'll add it as I think of it. For now I'll just answer questions, and leave the floor open for other people to share their shoulder ratting stories... 

So where did you train your rats? Where do you take them? What's your best and worse experiences? Is there any advise you could offer from your experiences? Its a thread on shoulder rats, if you have one or really think you want one this is the place to post about it... You may not see this offer come around again soon.... So what are you waiting for?


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## Rat Daddy

RatMama13,

You're right about your yard, young rats can cover 100 yards in a matter of seconds. They are great sprinters. And fences are actually worse because rats can get through most whereas you can't follow. Look for a big grass covered place with few people and walls over 5 feet high, not fences. Other good natural barriers are bodies of water over 30 feet wide. My rat won't swim over 30 feet out, likely because she can't see that much farther and doesn't know where the other shore is. So a river, or a lake, or a pond might make for a good barrier if you can't find a wall. 

There are likely a few good rat training sites near most people. But it is something you don't notice until you really start to look for it. Most of them are great sites because many people don't go there, and as you are people, it's not somewhere you usually go... keep your eyes open for open spaces when you drive around, you might just find a cemetary or baseball field with small trees or bushes that isn't often used that would work a treat. Once you find it, think like a rat and walk the site looking for dangers. Once you are satisfied it's a "safe site" try to get there before the weather turns cold. There isn't much time left this year for outdoor activities. And good luck, if you find a good site post a pic.


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## RatMama13

Hmmm...i live in a rural area so its hard to find places. Everything here is open spaces or fenced. I'll look as i travel to the city next time. The thinking like a rat thing i can do :-D


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## brian f

my boy jack jack loves playing in the pole barn. pushing tools of the table and moving parts around. he likes to go places with me but people dont care for him to much because hes black with light brown . he looks like a rat you see on tv


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## Rat Daddy

If open spaces is what you have, open spaces is what you use. Look for a couple of shrubs in a vast field of cut grass. Who needs walls when you have acres of space to work with? If your rattie really has a panic attack it's going to run for the cover the shrubs provide and not across a couple hundred yards of open range. There are even parking lots that have plantings in them where you can go after 5 pm and the offices are closed, not to mention the office park lawns. Municipal complexes are often spread out and closed at 5:00PM and most baseball and football fields aren't used except for when games are being played. Many safe sites aren't always available, but work a treat when they are not being used for something else... 

When we visited the cemetary we had our shoulder rat along. We dropped off the flowers we brought and walked the rattie. Lots of nice open space there and no one bothered us. Just about every rural area has an old cemetary hardly anybody visits, if all else fails, but I'm sure you'll do even better after you think about it. Remember all you need is safe cover you can recover your rat from and room to work with your rat, the more the better. My site, a park on a peninsula, with water on three sides and half a mile back to mainland is perfect, but there are many sites just as good.


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## Rat Daddy

brian f,

you've got it... the more your rat looks like a rat the harder it is to travel with him... Remember the line "This is jack jack, he's a pet rat and he's trained and friendly, would you like to meet him?" Get the words out right up front before people solidify their opinions. If people get confused I say... "She's my 6 year old daughter's pet and if my daughter is there, I hand my rat to her." Rats look much less menacing when little girls are holding and squishing them.


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## Rat Daddy

I'm tossing in a few photos to demonstrate what true shoulder rats look like doing their thing. 

First we have a typical meet and greet where our rat is introducing herself to a little girl she just met.

The second photos is typical shoulder rat free ranging. 

This is a shoulder rat at heel... She's not underfoot and will explore but generally stays close to you or comes back.

Look carefully for the white dot on the path, (left of the trash can) this is a shoulder rat's version of running a maze. She's on her way back to the car. 

After we got soaked in the rain, she's preening. Notice how comfortable a shoulder rat can be outdoors at a place she knows and just minimal cover. 

These photos were actually taken last summer when our girl was slimmer, younger and faster... The beach was surrounded by the state forest and there are marshes around the other park. Neither of these places are good safe sites.

Our little rattie surprised us all that day by jumping into the lake and swimming out to the kids, we got vids but no stills of her swimming or riding on swimmers. It kind of surprised us and we really weren't prepared.


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## IOVERATS

This has helped my cousins precious Dex so much! Like I said in another thread, he was a limited shoulder rat and hated the outdoors, but whenever I had some free time I visited my cousins house and popped Dex out onto their safe patch of garden that they fixed up. And he soon became very comfortable with the garden and he came when called never bit, he knew freeze, he knew all the commands for getting on your shoulder etc (all taught by me). And so I decided I would take a trip to the park to observe the area. Dogs were banned from this park, cats were removed from the site, and there were no signs of any birds of prey, as for the wild rats and snakes etc the park keeper said that reports of these types of animals had stopped three years ago, so I bought Dex down and he LOVED it, we sat user some trees and I had some lunch whilst he explores, he scaled this wall which I had climbed over on inspection day and found a cornered off bit of grass with nothing to any danger to a rat, so he explored there for 1 hour before popping back over and climbing the tree. It was getting late and I needed to get back to the car park to meet my parents so I called Dex back and he popped back from the tree onto my shoulder. I walked past the kiddie playground where a few kids were still playing. And they all suddenly came rushing over to me because of they saw a tail poking out of the back of my head. I was mobbed but I was prepared and that cheesy line supplied by rat daddy worked amazingly! They all formed a line and their parents came over to see what was going on, I let them stroke Dex and then told them to be gentle and they all held him and he just sat their licking them sometimes, I explained to the parents that he was safe and perfectly friendly, some kids parents said they were now going off to buy some rats because it was the first time in awhile their kid had been his happy. I went back to the car park with a tired Dex asleep on my shoulder. I repeated this a few times and I decided he was getting too good for the park and I got my cousins permission to take Dex to the pet shop whilst I was getting a spare water bottle for my hamster, but I went in a left Dex with my mum in the car and checked out all the animals in case of any fleas etc, and is then went in and attracted some attention by the workers, they were amazed and excited to see me with a rat, some people were a bit scare so I did the 15 ft rule but it turns out they thought I had a sewer rat because of his dark colourings, I didn't get offended I just explained his colouring and they asked to hold him. Some kids were in there and they held Dex and followed me around the shop while I looked at the stuff I needed asking questions. Before I left the manager came out and asked me to come in at the weekend and host an animal holding pet thing for the kids and I accepted and I've got that coming up next weekend .The next step is the shopping centre, Dex is coping well with all the other situations so I'm proud of him.I'll update once I have cleared some more obstacle  thanks again rat daddy this thread is amazing!


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## SillydogTheGreat

Haha I thought shoulder rat meant a rat that literally stays on your shoulder.


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## VampireSmeezeGirls

My girls have consistently been way too busy and curious to be allowed outside in anything other than a carrier. My boys have been hit and miss, but most recent duo rode everywhere allowed with me, but in my bra. They usually just slept but would peek up out of my shirt. But PEWs doing that creeps people out.


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## Rat Daddy

SillydogTheGreat, while I have to believe that every shoulder rat learns to stay on your shoulder pretty quickly, it's likely the least of their abilities. While shoulder rats are not dogs, mainly because they are so much smaller and much more delicate they really do overlap into the same ability range. While it can be argued that only a small percentage of rats walk at heel and have the general temperment to be shoulder rats, I've seen dogs that can't handle a simple walk though a park off a leash either. As my shoulder rat is now older, fatter and generally less capable and prefers to be carried on forearm than shoulder, a rats ability to stay put on your shoulder for an extended period of time is a good indication that it is capable of more advanced training. Basically a shoulder rat needs to have self control so as not to panic in stressful situations.

ILOVERATS, Dex sounds like a very special rat indeed. For the right rat, shoulder rat training is like watching a flower bloom. One small challenge at a time done very carefully and cautiously, and you can absolutely watch your rat expand to reach it's full potential. Next to our true shoulder rat, our new rat looked like our shoulder rat's pet rat when we got her. At your upcoming meet and greet, keep an eye on Dex's nose. As the nose goes, goes the rat. If Dex is looking at the people you are meeting he's looking for contact and interaction. If he buries his nose under you arm or faces backwards away from the crowd, he needs more space. Usually a few minutes and a little reassurance is all he's likely to need to get back into the game, but crowds can overwhelm rats until they get really used to them and even sometimes after that. It's easy to get distracted by the humans and forget your rats emotional needs. Handling a meet and greet mob scene is not normal rat behavior, even if shoulder rats seem to thrive on it... it is the pinacle of a shoulder rat's accomplishment and can be stressful. Also remember when you transport your rat in a car, make sure someone has the rat under control before you close the car door, same goes for all doors you go through. 

As Dex becomes more comfortable in outdoor places he's going to become more confident and want to explore more. This is a great thing to watch, it's like watching a kid grow up. But rats are not kids and they don't know their limits so don't let your guard down even for a second. Your shoulder rat still relies on you to tell him what's safe and unsafe and to keep him out of trouble. It's amazingly easy to forget that a shoulder rat is still a rat and that a great shoulder rat only obeys commands about 90% of the time and that percentage actually decreases when the rat feels comfortable with his surroundings. When our shoulder rat first discovered trees, she came right back on command, but once she had her favorite tree, nothing was going to bring her down short of a chain saw, until she got to her favorite high perch, munched her favorite leaf buds, sniffed all of the scents wafting by and enjoyed the sun and the breeze and finished preening. Depending on the weather, the entire process took about 45 minutes, then one call and she was back down. Obviously, if we had to leave the park soon on a nice warm breezy day we didn't do 'up on tree'. This behavior is normal and to no small degree an accomplishment, don't let yourself be left behind, your rat has no concept of your impending doctor's appointment and really does expect you to just hang around and wait. Don't confuse it with running away, but when your late for something, it sure feels like the same thing. 

Lastly, twice when we were training other rats at the safe site and we were busy working with a new rat, our shoulder rat has walked off to meet strangers on her own. If she feels she's being neglected, she takes it very personally and will go off to make new friends. Never let Dex feel neglected, he has a clever little mind and will come up with some new and disturbing way to get attention from someone else. Shoulder rats thrive on human attention and that's not always safe for a rat.

It looks like you and Dex are doing great! Stay careful and have the time of your life.


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## Rat Daddy

VampireSmeezeGirls, Any color rat popping out of your shirt is a bad thing. Any rat popping out of anything is bad... People don't expect it and are likely to be disturbed. 

People need to see your rats from at least 15 feet away. Then they can decide to approach you on their own terms, or they can choose to back away to safety. 

Carriers, pouches, purses and even roomy bras might be great ways to carry your rats, but if they can just pop up out of nowhere right in front of someone, you have a real recipe for disaster. It might seem funny, but some people can really have a heart attack or dead faint on the spot... so always try to get your rats out in the open way before you come into contact with strangers. 

It might also make it easier to offer to let people meet or pet your rats if they aren't in your shirt. (OK, stupid joke, but I really don't want to sound like I'm being critical.)


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## Rat Daddy

Shoulder rats as disease vectors (special precautions regarding other rat owners):

I'm not sure I covered this, but it recently came up. We were on our way to pick up some Revolution to treat a possible early mite infestation that might have been brought in by our newest rat. On our way we met a young lady that wanted to handle our shoulder rat and practically siezed her from my arms... 

She gave our true shoulder rattie a big snuggle and huggle and looked very very comfortable squishing our big pudgy rat against her shirt who was overall loving the attention...

Then the young lady told me she worked at a pet shop that sells rats and that she had rats of her own... Suddenly I felt that terrible feeling of dread... I was on my way to the vets and my rat most likely had mites and this young lady was about to either go to work to handle who knows how many unsuspecting rats or go home and handle her own innocent animals...

Naturally I gave her a stern warning to wash and change her clothes. And I hope she took me seriously. But the point is made.

Shoulder rats are irresistable to other rat owners. Most rat owners are healthy cage rat owners and are pretty safe for your shoulder rat. But your true shoulder rat gets around and can pick things up that it can easily transmit to some unsuspecting caged rat owner. As a true shoulder rat owner, you are always on guard for mites and you learn pretty fast how to deal with them. Also shoulder rats are almost always unusually healthy. I think it somehow comes from so much contact with the outside world, but caged rats are more like hot house flowers and can catch who knows what from a healthy looking shoulder rat.

If you are a rat owner and you come across a shoulder rat in the course of your travels don't handle it unless you know enough to wash and change your clothes before you handle your own rats. It might be courteous to wash your hands before too. If you have a sick rat at home, please don't handle someone elses shoulder rat. I know shoulder rats are hard to pass by, and you want to show off your rat handling skills and every rat deserves a great big hug, but as a fellow rat owner, you are more hazardous to a shoulder rat than a person who has never handled a small animal, and that sweet friendly well trained shoulder rat might be completely immune to what it's sending home to infect your family.


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## binkyhoo

Well to start with I would ask permission befor touching. If I even would. But I would do all the cooing and admiration I can muster for a fellow rat lover!


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## IOVERATS

Thanks for the information Rat Daddy on the other page  It helped me to realise that you can't let your guard down for even a minute.

And sorry that I didn't post back awhile ago but I was really busy :/ Anyway, I went to this sort of mall thing and I felt he was ready for this because he is the best ratty I have ever known, and I am glad I had recognised his potential before it was too late  

I needed to collect a birthday cake from this huge bakery type place and I was a little unsure of how they would react to a rat, but I decided to follow Rat Daddy's advice and walk in there with Dex on my shoulder, it turned out there was a rat phobic buying some caramel shortbread, so I took the 15 ft rule and she looked up, she dropped the shortbread and shot up the stairs where she stood glaring at me like I had just committed some sort of crime. I wasn't sure how to react and I had the manager come up to me and asked me if I had assaulted her! I was shocked and I just explained about Dex who was cleaning my ear at this time and the manager actually owns some rats of her own so she made a fuss of Dex and I could already guess what was going to happen next :/ waves of people came over trying to snatch a glance of him. The woman who had ran up the stairs eventually came down after her kids went up and told her about Dex, she was really nervous and was shaking but Dex didn't care he just grabbed her finger nail and started grooming it, she started laughing and wanted Dex to sit on her shoulder, but I politely told her that it would be dangerous she understood but was a little dissapointed so I let her hold Dex. Her kids came over and grabbed Dex from her hands so I had to rescue him from being careered around the shop at a million miles per hour. They to, were dissapointed so I let them get their hands salivated over. It was extremely cute, but before I could grab my Iphone from my pocket he shot away from it and stood on his hind legs on the boys shoulder with a cheeky look on his face (he isn't scared of cameras but he doesn't want his picture taken, not sure why :?) but I collected the cake and then needed to get some more converse because mine were chewed up by some of my cousins free ranging baby ratties lol, they are learning .

I got to the shoe shop and they have workers standing by the door and the man told me I couldn't come in with sewer animals, and I can understand. He isn't the most appealing looking rat, he is a rex so his fur looks like he has come out a bush backwards, and he's agouti so really he does look like some kind of sewer rat but he isn't. I explained to them about his colourings and that he doesn't bite, he never has and it is clean etc etc, they refused so I left knowing that there was no point in pressuring them and getting security on me. So I guess my holey converse will have to do for another couple of weeks :| but I still had ages before I was due to meet up with my parents and then get Dex back home. So I went to the library to get some books out. I went in and there was some kids at the story time and the parents where in a room having some coffee while they waited for their kids, the workers were no where to be seen so I went upstairs and there was some college physcology students in there studying and they suddenly looked up and rushed over, I tried to avoid them because otherwise I would be kicked out for disturbing the college students, they have a weekly slot in there and anyone who takes them off task gets banned from the library, but they said they needed a test subject on certain animals and they said a rat would be a good one, so I agreed and they took me over to the table and made me sit there with Dex in front of me and they got foods like biscuits and nut bars and tested what his reactions were. Dex looked frustrated so I told them I had to go but they said they were only half done with their test but I said that they should try to find another test and quickly left before they decided to come after me lol. I went round some more shops with more success and was accepted and welcomed with open arms lol I had so many people coming up to me, someone even asked if Dex was intact. I quickly replied with no and left the area even though he is, I didn't want to be put in that awkward position, especially since he isn't even mine XD.

So yeah, that's Dex's explorations up to date


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## VampireSmeezeGirls

Rat Daddy said:


> VampireSmeezeGirls, Any color rat popping out of your shirt is a bad thing. Any rat popping out of anything is bad... People don't expect it and are likely to be disturbed.
> 
> People need to see your rats from at least 15 feet away. Then they can decide to approach you on their own terms, or they can choose to back away to safety.
> 
> Carriers, pouches, purses and even roomy bras might be great ways to carry your rats, but if they can just pop up out of nowhere right in front of someone, you have a real recipe for disaster. It might seem funny, but some people can really have a heart attack or dead faint on the spot... so always try to get your rats out in the open way before you come into contact with strangers.
> 
> It might also make it easier to offer to let people meet or pet your rats if they aren't in your shirt. (OK, stupid joke, but I really don't want to sound like I'm being critical.)


Yeah, the boys really didn't get to go out in public "loose" because they only wanted to bra ride. The only time they got to go outside the house in my shirt was the final vet trip, since they didn't want to be in the carrier. 

Usually, it was I would forget they were snoozing away in my shirt and someone would knock on my door. My mail carrier LOVES my rats, the usual pizza guy loves them, so it was only random strangers who ignored my "no solicitation" sign who got randomly spooked by the boys.

Seeing as my girls don't hold still for 2.3 seconds yet, they aren't bra snoozing yet to be forgotten about in my bra. Yeah, my boys were pretty much lazy slackers. Hand 'em a drink and the remote, they'll just lay there.


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## Rat Daddy

*The 15 foot rule is sooo important.* Even some mild rat phobics will eventually calm down and come up to meet your rat if they see it from 15 feet away. From my experience about 95% of rat phobics can manage their hysteria from that distance. For phobics distance equals safety... more is better! But, good job handling your first phobic! They are relatively rare but your going to come across them especially with an agouti. Remember empathize with them, don't put them down or make them feel embarrased, many don't dislike rats, they are just honestly terrified of them.

Remember the line... "(Insert rat's name here) is a trained fancy rat, he is very friendly and loves people, would you like to meet him?(insert smile here)" and "Yes, fancy rats are related to rats, but they are very different...(continue with some plausable reason your rat is different from a sewer rat)" 

Some of the very best potential shoulder rats I've seen were agouti. They have the dark eyes to deal with bright sunlight and some have the most charming and calm personalities. But they can be hard to find in the dark or in the bushes and they really freak some people out. And worst of all, it's really hard to say that they really aren't a "rat" rat. They have fur like a rat, eyes lie a rat, a tail like a rat whiskers like a rat and probably sharp claws and great big teeth like a rat, so your explinations are going to get a whole lot more complicated. Let us know what finally works for you. If I were intending to train a shoulder rat from scratch, I wouldn't start with an agouti. But as you already have one, just be super careful and expect a few more problems than a capped rat owner is going to face. I've always thought a black eyed white might be a very desireable coloration.

In any event Ioverats, welcome to our world! Everything you described is part or a normal day out with our shoulder rat. I know it's future shock at first, it's like everything you expected just flips upside down. Food stores, like bakerys which you would expect to be rat aversive, lure you in because you attract kids while sneaker shops might not. Hoards of kids and adults run when they see your rat, but rather than run away they mob you. Instead of trying to protect your rat from people that want to harm him, your trying to make sure someone gives him back. If it's overwhelming for you, imagine how an inexperienced shoulder rat feels. An experienced true shoulder rat actually loves and learns to thrive on the attention, where a "normal" rat panics and might even bite. BTW our shoulder rat actually poses for photos. And yes, a group of psychology students at the library is just one of the strange things that will happen to you, the word normal when it comes to shoulder ratting has a very broad definition. We're banned from the library because we ran across a mob of teenagers and things got too loud too fast for me to stop it in time. However we're still welcome in the municipal lobby where noise isn't a problem.

One of the reasons I'm so big on safe site training, is because things spin out of control so fast in the real world. At the safe site, you meet people on a more limited basis and you can try out your lines and practice your rat and people management skills before you are at the center of the tornado. 

Take a moment and reflect on your experience, try to practice lines that worked, and avoid things you said that put people off. ( I actually have a line for people that get overly affectionate with my rat that goes. "Like I said, fancy rats arent anything like wild rats, they do have razor sharp teeth... pause for affect... but they just about never bite." Most people handle your rat more gently after that line.) Also... never sit down in a crowd, you will get overwhelmed or swamped by kids and don't let people get behind you or your rat is going to get picked off your shoulder and never let toddlers handle your rat. Autistic kids will tail tug too.

Regretably the only way to get good at rat-in-crowd management is just to do it. Over time you will get better at it. You brought Dex home alive so in the world of true shoulder ratting you did great and should be very proud of yourself and Dex. You are very lucky to be working with a great rat, remember he relies on you to keep him safe. And all of the people in the crowd are relying on your judgment, so don't be afraid to set limits and stick to them when you see things getting to far out of hand, but always be polite and friendly you are counting on the good will of the crowd to welcome you back.

Also keep in mind the really risky tricks like walking at heel, ring walking or rat chase games, should be avoided in large crowds. Just too many things can go terribly wrong. 

Binkyhoo, you have exceptionally good sense. To date I have yet to find a single rat owner that confessed to owning a rat of their own until after they were already holding ours. And I've had my rat snatched or lured off by other rat owners twice from behind. Rat owners can usually spot a friendly rat and aren't afraid of them but they forget that a shoulder rat has a very different life style than their rats do and don't usually worry about disease or parasite vectors. I really don't get offended and play along with the joke, but I do worry more about their rats than mine. I'm always checking my girls for parasites and like I said they seem nearly immune to everything else. But I've treated for mites twice, once it came in from a pet shop mouse and most recently with our new rattie, but I'd hate to think about anyone with rats that handled our girl the day before we discovered the mites, I might not even know where they are to warn them. I did however tell our new rat's former owner that her rat had mites because she still has two boys that most likely need treatment too.

VampireSmeezeGirls... I suppose if I saw a pair of ratties pop out of a young lady's bra I'd be thinking about saying "My what big ears your boobies have..." But I'd likely check myself before saying it out loud.  But I'm a rat owner and the rats wouldn't freak me out a bit. Try to be just a little careful around other people, there are a very few that will absolutely wet their undergarments or worse. It can get ugly. So if you are going to take your boys outside at all you should spend some time at a safe site with them. Even if you just sit around in the grass next to a shrubby tree or bush and let them explore a bit, it will give you a little experience with managing your boys outdoors and they will be less likely to spook if they've been outdoors before you cross a busy street with them. Remember 90% of all horror stories start out with "I was just...."


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## VampireSmeezeGirls

Well, I don't have any boys now  Just the bouncy girls, who haven't yet held still long enough for me to take a picture. 

Reggie, my male from YEARS ago, hated other rats, so he just rode in my hoodie all the time and was thrilled. But he never came out in public, so people never really knew he was there. He just rode in my pocket and slept there during the day, and when we got back to my dorm room, he'd pop out and we'd play. Get up to go, he'd scramble back to his pocket and we were off. But back then, my shoulder wasn't any more visible than my pocket - I had waist length permed hyper curly hair. Reggie could have easily hidden himself in that mess. But seeing as Reggie disdained strangers almost as much as hating other rats, it worked.


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## Rat Daddy

Actually my big girl would love your hair. I'm rather quite handy at rat untangling, because when my girl sees long curly hair shes irresistably drawn to it. She dives right under and starts exploring...

And as to shoulder rats that don't like people, we raised one from a pup, and she was great at the safe site but she froze solid when other people were around, it was really sad that she didn't work out. Our new girl likes people but is afraid of them, she was neglected much of her life. She takes to some strangers right away and others seem to frighten her. She's got a lot of wierd quirks we're working on. She will walk at heel like a real shoulder rat for up to 50 feet and then she runs right back to where we first put her down and waits there to be picked up... I haven't a clue what that's about.

I have a 6 year old daughter and the sales girl recommended female rats. So I've always worked with female shoulder rats with lots of energy and a passion for exploring and play. It's worked out as my daughter prefers active pets. But I suppose a laid back guy rat would be easier to work with.

In the end, every successful shoulder ratter has their own method or tweak, as long as your bring your rat home alive you've had a good day. All methods work based on knowing and trusting your rat and your rat trusting and loving you. And that's what this thread is all about, helping other's by sharing our experiences.


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## iHayleyNorris

Is it possible to train a 9 month old rat to be a shoulder rat? The conditions of how I obtained him are truly crazy, but his personality is perfect. The only downside, he doesn't know any commands and doesn't respond to his name. But he LOVES all people and isn't afraid of new places or people or smells. He is the most confident rat ever, yet always stays within 20 feet of me.

If not, I do have a 5 week old baby who reminds me very much of how my 9 month old was when he was a baby. I firmly believe he will turn out very similar to my older guy when he is an adult.


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## Muttlycrew

I love this thread! It was cool to read about more people that explore all of the different aspects of having a rat. My 4 month old Brody is well on his way to becoming a shoulder rat. I already explain him as one to people that aren't as experienced with rats, but he definitely isn't fully trained! He has accompanied me on many trips including ocean view points(which have a rock "fence" around the edge so you don't plummet to your death ) and he loved running up and down the rock. Some got freaked out, though, so I called him back and up he ran, straight to my shoulder. I was definitely proud-lol! He spent the rest of the time viewing the water from my shoulder. He also enjoys trips to the school with me when I have my afternoon class. They're fairly open about people bringing pets, which I like! He runs around the grass and across the rocks in the pond during break. He is truly an awesome little guy! Years ago I had the most true shoulder rat I've ever met. His name was Zeke and he was AWESOME. I miss him! He literally went everywhere lol! 


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## JLSaufl

Awe, this reminds me of my first rat, Charlie. He had free range of the house, and was treated more like a dog than anything, he our two dogs and cat became great friends. He would sit on the deck while we swam, sit in the tree and nibble leaves while we would have summer bbq. He was taught several commands, my favorite being 'bed time' and he would run to to his cage, snuggle into his hidey house and in the morning be waiting for me to tell him 'out'. 

My current three are pretty untrainable. lol


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## Jackie

This is a really cool thread! I will probably never be able to accomplish something like this (even if I had the time to train them, paranoia of my babies getting hurt would probably stop me), but reading about it has been really interesting and opens my eyes to just how smart rats can be! I'll be satisfied if any of my girls will stay on my shoulder around the apartment!


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## Rat Daddy

I haven't posted to this thread in a while, because mainly I wanted to hear about other people's experiences too. Given the rough number of members here I'm guessing that there are likely about a dozen true shoulder rats and another few dozen limited shoulder rats being represented by their owners. And given how unusual a good shoulder rat personality is and how much time and effort it takes to train one, I'm really impressed by the experience and skill level of the folks in this forum.

But to address the issue of training older rats to be shoulder rats, the answer is yes they can be trained if they can learn or already know their names and basic commands you can take them to the safe site and see what happens. If the rat was adopted late in life and was already damaged by it's previous owners it's not going to be easy, if even possible. The best rat to start with is one you raise yourself from a pup, not all pups work out, but at least you taught it affection and no one else has screwed it up. 

We adopted Amelia to be Fuzzy Rats companion, she was neglected and at 7 months old didn't even know her name. She was smart as heck and learned her name and her commands almost over night but sat on my desk like a flowerpot for 3 weeks otherwise. She's loosened up and now free ranges indoors with enthusiasm and she's turned out to be a skilled thief and remarkable climber. But at the safe site she avoided strangers and wouldn't range away from us to explore and she was prone to panic and hide under things so that we had to dig her out because she was to fearful to respond to command. Yes, she can travel with us, always staying under my jacket or on my shoulder, but at least so far now, she's no shoulder rat. She also doesn't understand hugs or skritches or normal human affection. It's not that she doesn't love her family, it's just she missed that part as a pup. So, if you have raised a calm, well trained, confident, people loving indoor rat chances are it can handle safe site training and become a true shoulder rat. If you adopt a year old petshop rat, I'm guessing the odds are strongly against you. 

Remember a very clingy rat isn't a shoulder rat, it's hanging on because it's terrified. This is the same terror that's likely to cause it to run into a sewer and never come back when a car backfires. A shoulder rat always maintains it's presence of mind to stay with it's pack. It may be brave enough to explore, but it has every intention of going home with you.

The very best true shoulder rats can blow through safe site training in hours. They are just wired right. And at the safe site they shine. They explore, they come back, they meet and greet people and they follow you around at heel. If you actually have one of these, I suppose you could skip safe site training and some people have... But don't do it! First because every rat will improve at the safe site. Second, if your rat isn't a born true shoulder rat your going to get it killed by skipping the safe site experience. And third, at the safe site you will learn how to work with your rat under new circumstances, unless you are a natural too, you are going to become a better trainer and not kill your rat with your first mistakes.

As to the remark about never having a true shoulder rat, yes this is possible and please feel free to enjoy the stories. We shoulder ratters are so very proud of our little guys and girls we love to tell their stories and brag about our little tail draggers. And as fellow rat owners you can best appreciate the stories and photos without getting your rats killed. The only thing more fun than telling the stories is seeing the expression of disbelief on peoples faces when your rat walks at heel or he or she comes up on hand and shoulder on command. Or better yet, when your rat meets and greets people with kissies and lets other people hold him or her. When she was younger we used to get people to form a circle and hold hands. Fuzzy Rat would run from shoulder to shoulder across the outstretched arms and hands giving everybody a little kiss on the cheek as she walked over them; talk about building an entourage and drawing a crowd.

But remember rats that are well trained indoor rats and can't be true shoulder rats can still go to the safe site. Fuzzy Rat is slowly losing her physical abilities and with it her confidence, and sometimes he eyes glaze over and she gets really introverted, like an old person, but at the safe site she still digs for things in the grass and weebles about exploring and sometimes wakes up and hops about a little and Amelia can have her occasional panic attacks and still do some exploring and playing with us in between them. So, whether your rat is a has been, or a never will be, true shoulder rat the safe site still offers many advantages over caged indoor living.

If you choose your safe site carefully, and follow the guidelines I covered, you will soon know if you will ever have a true shoulder rat without putting any rat at serious risk.


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## cagedbirdsinging

Jackie said:


> This is a really cool thread! I will probably never be able to accomplish something like this (even if I had the time to train them, paranoia of my babies getting hurt would probably stop me), but reading about it has been really interesting and opens my eyes to just how smart rats can be! I'll be satisfied if any of my girls will stay on my shoulder around the apartment!


I think a lot of folks don't give rats (theirs or others) a chance to show them just how intelligent and capable they really are!


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## Rat Daddy

CagedBirdSinging that's about the truest thing ever written here. People think their rats are helpless small animals and then treat them that way. Never given the chance to shine or grow up, they become helpless cage pets. Imagine if you kept your kids in a cage for 21 years, what you would wind up with. Even when most rats really can't be true shoulder rats, every rat can be amazing given the chance.


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## Jackie

I'm going to try to make a confined space in my apartment for them to run around. Sadly it's not naturally a good free range space in it because of the vents on almost every wall.


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## Rumy91989

Jackie said:


> I'm going to try to make a confined space in my apartment for them to run around. Sadly it's not naturally a good free range space in it because of the vents on almost every wall.


My roommate has a floor vent in her room and lets her boys run around in there all the time. I think she just put some duct tape over it (closed the vent first, obviously) but she's never had a problem.


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## Jackie

I have to look at them more closely but I don't think that they are safe. Finally got the name for them: hot water baseboard heaters. I am just worried there might be a space under the heater that they can get into or they'll go into the heater itself and either way they'll be lost.


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## Rumy91989

Oooooh, yes, unless you can find a way to plug up the entire space below the heater and close the vents, I'd say that could definitely be dangerous.


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## Hephaestion

Hehe, you can be sure that if there is a gap, a hole, any kind of opening, your rats will be very interested - more interested in that than all the play tunnels and toys you spent ages making or a fortune buying. My skittish one Constance discovered how to squash into the middle part of the radiators (all you can see is a tail poking out of the radiator). Luckily, she returns to the cage every minute when out and about so I don't need to worry too much yet!

I cable tied a bunch of opened out cardboard boxes together to make a boundary. It doesn't really keep them in just gives me extra time to scoop them up as they figure out an escape as they are regaining their balancing when swinging from the top of it! Oh rats!

As much as their disappearing into nooks you never thought existed is a little frightening, at the same time it is great to see them grow in boldness and confidence. In my case, three terrified pet shop girls in the beginning are now bold as brass little divas with a penchant for adventure I thought I never would see it. Watching your rats really 'become' is very rewarding but can only really be achieved if you are willing to take a little gamble (even in baby steps).

Caveat - all good gambles are well calculated. For instance, I am nowhere ready to train a real outdoor shoulder rat. Until my experience has grown after many mischiefs, I doubt I would able to trust myself to do that. I consider it a calculated gamble to train my girls to follow me about from the cage to the bedroom and around the apartment.


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## Rat Daddy

Usually the wide metal panels of baseboard heaters snap off and on by pulling up or down first and applying a little finger pressure to the hangers. That information might be useful if you need to retrieve your rat fast and or to check for holes behind them. My home is a rats paradise, hiding places everywhere. Fuzzy Rat, my too experienced and important to obey premadonna, will always come out for cookies whereas Amelia comes on command so I don't worry about hidey holes. Even without calling them, they eventually drift back to me when they want something.


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## cagedbirdsinging

I do not find the baseboard heaters to be any issue with the rats. I have them throughout my home.

The only thing to be sure of is that the protective plates surrounding the pipes are in place and that you check where the piping goes into your floor for gaps. Fill those gaps up with some expanding foam if necessary, and you should be good to go.


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## Dingo

Adding my two cents in.

While I agree that some rats don't make good shoulder rats, I don't believe it has anything to do with how smart the rat is. I think it has more to do with personality, and how at ease and comfortable they are with you and the world. All my past rats were shoulder rats, who I could take anywhere with me without worrying about issues. I never had to fear them jumping off my shoulder, or had to fear them bolting from me when they saw something that frightened them. I could take them for bike rides, into stores, coffee houses, hiking, camping, fire work shows, carnivals, etc. People around town knew my rats better then they knew me. However, my girls were NOT shy or nervous by any means, and they were like that from day one. Me handling them daily, and taking them places only seemed to solidify this. Something like that never would have worked with a skittish rat, like my two former boys, who I got from a petstore as babys, and just never fully 100% learned to trust us despite giving them the same love and care we gave with our girls. My little girl, Zephyr, is turning into a shoulder rat. She went into town with me the other day, got to ride the bus, and even got to come into my work to say hi to everyone (I work in an office, and after raving about my new rats for over a month, everyone was anxious to meet them). Totally calm and chill with everyone and everything.

With all that being said, there is NO WAY I'd of ever allowed my rats to wander out of my sight, and dissapear for 1 second, let alone 45 minutes, not because we didn't trust them, but because the world can be a very dangerous place for a rat. Who's to say there wouldn't be some kind of poison or toxic substance on the ground your rat could ingest, or a predator lurking close by. If a dog got ahold of a rat, it would take two seconds for that rat to be dead. Not worth the risk at all to me.


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## Gannyaan

Some ppl have said they have no problems, while other rats are intrigued by these heaters.. You can buy covers for them


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## Rat Daddy

I absolutely agree shoulder rats need to have the right personality. And its noticeable when they are only pups. True shoulder rats have a certain air of confidence about them and an interest in meeting new people and exploring new places and little or no fear of open spaces. I suspect that unusually good vision is another shared trait. I'm not sure I've ever met a stupid rat, so I'm not sure about shoulder rats not having to be smart. Mine is, and I suspect most shoulder rats are smarter than caged rats just because they have a broader basis of experience. But if you've ever known a stupid shoulder rat or had one, I'd love to hear about it. It sounds like it would have the makings for some funny stories.

The first time Fuzzy Rat ran away and came back after 45 minutes, was before I came up with the safe site concept and we were playing in the front yard. And as she was under 6 weeks old and we had no idea what was going to happen, it was pretty stressful. The next time, she unexpectedly jumped/scaled a 3 foot wall and dove into an ornamental shrub planting at the safe site. It was easier to cope with since the planting was surrounded by many acres of lawn so we just waited for her to come out and true to form after 45 minutes she came back to the same place she went in. Knowing that our rat comes back either when called or after a reasonable time allowed us to slack off and give her more freedom than we likely should and she's stubborn and sneaky and has slipped the noose more times than I'd care to admit. It's all best summed up by my daughter..."Daddy, I thought *you* were watching the rat." Sometimes rather than recall her we would just follow at a distance and let her explore... but one such time she found a freshly baited rat trap, another time she nearly collided with a very surprised ground hog and she often walked right up to strangers to meet and greet them and there are always wild boy rats to worry about. And yes, she has a tendency to walk in the road. So yes, it is a actually a really bad idea to let your rat free range without supervision, even at the safe site.

We made lots of mistakes in training shoulder rats and I'm not afraid to admit it so other people may learn from them. When I started out with training Fuzzy Rat I posted for advise on another forum. I got flamed and soon found out that the very subject of shoulder rats was taboo. So with the kind indulgence of Rat Forum I started this thread as a place where safe shoulder ratting could be fostered if not encouraged. As much as I know most rats can't ever be true shoulder rats, I also have to believe that a rat with the true shoulder rat personality would be wasting it's life trapped in a cage. And if I had more guidance when I was learning how to train shoulder rats, lots of very close calls could have been avoided. Most of the hazards I discovered, I discovered on my own and only seconds before things could have gone terribly wrong. 

And yes, Fuzzy Rat ate a poison mushroom and almost died, but I was actually watching her do it and my daughter questioned me about it, and wrongly I repeated what my mom had told me that animals know what they can eat. My part wild rat was with us that day too, and she did avoid the 'shrooms. So that's when I got to learn that wild rats have a technique to avoid getting poisoned that domestic rats don't. I also learned that rats can throw up. And how to treat mushroom poisoning in rats. (milk thistle) If shoulder ratting wasn't a taboo subject, I might have known about poison 'shrooms and lots of suffering and one very close call could have been avoided. Now this is a danger that anyone reading this can easily avoid.

Thanks for making the point about not letting your rat stray unsupervised, it's easy to get overconfident and that's when really bad things happen. I'd hoped I'd stressed that, but it's good to have it coming from more than one source.

I also love your point that more people know your rats better than they know you. Same here! My rats have more friends than I do. And lots of people come up to me and ask how my rats are doing or get all excited to see them again. 

Last summer a young fellow came running up to us dragging his poor girlfriend by the arm behind him... When he got up to us he pointed down at Fuzzy Rat who was walking at heel and proudly pronounced "See I told you, I'm not crazy, there really is a Fuzzy Rat!" We've been mobbed by kids, teens, adults, on duty police and even a motorcycle club. Most people love shoulder rats.

I'm also glad someone else has taken their shoulder rat to a fireworks show. I was starting feel a little out there on that limb alone. The bus trip and bring your rat to work day sounded like lots of fun too. I'd love to hear more of your exploits. Where do you do your outdoor training? And how far do you let your shoulder rats free range outdoors?


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## Dingo

I completely know what you mean, and understand. It's nice to know through past mistakes that even though you'd never let it happen on purpose, you can trust your rat to free roam outside unsupervised, without the worry that they'd bolt and never come back.As far as training my rats, there was never really much training involved. Just bonding and getting them use to other people and the world. From day one, they were riding my shoulder or hanging out in my pocket and never seemed to freaked out by it, so I did it more and more, and they just kind of knew what was expected of them when we were out. Zephyr is like this. She rides around in my sweater, with her little head poking out, and just seems to know she's safe with me. I wouldn't trust her on the ground yet, just because we've only had her a few days, and she's still so young, but I'd be willing to bet money I'd be able to in time.Funniest story I have about a mistake we made with taking our rats in public was when we brought one of my males into a Chinese resteraunt. This happened about 9 years ago. We were out walking around with one of my boy rats, who had fallen asleep in my friend's coat. We were passing by a Chinese resteraunt and decided we were hungry and wanted food. We stupidly thought my rat would just keep sleeping and not be an issue.... Long story short, that wasn't the case. We got inside, ordered our food, and the rat upon smelling the awesome food, woke up, and proceeded to climb out to see what was going on. So here we are, trying to hide this rat from the waitress and everyone else in the place, but this rat wasn't having it. He WANTED chinese food! So in an attempt to get him to stop and sit still, my friend proceeds to throw his vegetable tempura down his sweater. In the midst of all this, the waitress is watching us, doesn't see the rat, but see's my friend chucking food down his shirt.We left without my rat being discovered, but the staff thought we were absolutely nuts. I never went back again HAHA!


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## Rat Daddy

Even well behaved rats can have trouble with food. Luckily, Fuzzy is very good about it. We were all kinds of nervous about taking her into the donut shop the first time. But she was fine and one of the employees even remarked that it seemed strange to see a rat so well behaved when she was only a matter of feet away from sooo many donuts.

For some reason, we never too Fuzzy Rat to the Chinese Buffet in town. I'm not so much afraid of being asked to leave, but more-so the mob scene she can create in crowds and the place sometimes packs out when the tour buses pull in. Two hundred curious Chinese tourists would wreck anybody's dining experience.

It's hard to explain the kind of experiences you have with crowds when they spot your shoulder rat to anybody who hasn't ever been at the center of a rat frenzy vortex, especially if there are kids involved.


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## Phantom

I picked up my third rat last weekend, and I want to know if he is shoulder rat material before I train him. Well, technically I want to know if one of my girls is worth trying to train as well. My younger girl is not shoulder rat material. Her attention span is really short compared to my older girl, and she always ends up wanting to get off my shoulder as soon as she gets on. (She loves the inside of my shirt though. >.<)

Back to my oldest girl, Molly. She and I have developed a rather close bond. When I open my cage my younger girl, Mimi, will usually sniff me, lick me, and go explore the room. Molly, however, does the exact opposite and runs up my shoulder first thing she's out of the cage. (She's just always done this, I never really trained her to do this.) She also comes when called, and knows that when I hold out my hand I expect her to walk up my arm and on to my shoulder. Molly can only sit on my shoulder for so long with me standing still though. After a while she walks down to my arms and sits in the crook of my arm while I'm talking to someone. (This is inside my house by the way.) She's a real people person though. Whenever I have someone new over, she's the first person to visit them and wouldn't leave them alone. She usually has to search all their pockets for treats and interesting smells. She's also really good with animals (cats and dogs). The furthest I've ever gone outside with her is my garage when taking her to the vet, and letting a little girl hold her at the vet once. She tends to get tired of shoulders after a while unless I'm moving so my guess is that she would be a slightly limited shoulder rat?

On to the boy, who is the youngest of the three. I went out and bought Pastoolio last week, and the first thing he did when I got home was sit on my shoulder for a few hours while I was cooking pasta and doing homework. This little guy ate, drank, and slept on my shoulder during that period of time. He also does not go potty out of his cage, and he seems to like everyone's shoulders. He doesn't go crazy like my two girls do when I have food nearby. (My two girls will try to climb down my arms if they realize they're not getting any food.) Right now I'm trying to get him used to the cats and new people. I don't want to bring him outside yet because he's only five weeks old. He will be neutered next month so he can be housed with my girls afterwards. While he's still in quarantine I'd like to bond him as close as possible to me and my boyfriend. I'm guessing he could possibly be a great shoulder rat once he starts learning to come when called like Molly does. 

Mimi, my younger girl is, unfortunately, not meant to be a shoulder rat even though I wanted her to be. She has a big fear of loud noises, especially the fire alarm that went off once. She refused to come out of her tissue box for a few hours after it stopped. She also can't stand to be on my shoulder for too long. She doesn't like banging doors, or the microwave, or loud voices. She's a really sweet girl and loves to cuddle, but she's not meant for the outside world.


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## justboringSarah

I am sorry to be the killjoy here,but I have to weigh in. I use a service dog and likening a shoulder trained rat to a service dog is absolutely wrong. It may be fun to take your rat with you into places,but only service dog handlers are allowed to take their dog into any public place(except churches,that is another issue). Please understand that be taking your well trained rat into any place that does not allow the general public to bring pets you are hurting every person that is legitimately disabled and does in fact use a service dog.


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## Rat Daddy

Well, staying on your shoulder or doing anything in your house is very different than outdoors. In your house there isn't much to see sitting on your shoulder. Also many rats will sit on your shoulder in terror when you go outdoors... the real hallmark of being a shoulder rat is what happens when you put him on the ground. Does he follow you, go off and explore a little and come back, and enjoy meeting strangers? Or does he panic and dash under the nearest parked car? It's all about how your rat reacts to novel situations, noise and most of all open spaces. Many rats simply can't tolerate opens spaces.

Now every rat has it's limits, for Fuzzy Rat its tire shops, with all of the loud airguns and tires popping and air rushing out of the tires when they pull the valves off she really gets stressed, but she hangs on to me as tight as she can and doesn't panic and bolt... But the last time we went, she hid under an old jacket on the passenger seat the whole ride home. Basically she hung in there but it took every ounce of composure she had not to lose it. And when a rat loses it, it's most likely by bolting for cover and it might be gone.

So, no more tire shops. Part of being a shoulder rat trainer is knowing your rats limits and respecting them.

The only real way to find out if your rat has shoulder rat potential is to take him or her to a safe site as I have already described. One of several things will happen or sometimes several things will happen depending on your rat. Start our near cover, basically a safe place for your rat to run to. If your rat panics that's where it's going. Sit down on a blanket and play there for a while. As your rat becomes more and more confident you might be able to walk it further away from the safety spot. Let it climb some small bushes or trees, see if it will follow you when you walk. Chase it, run away and see if it chases you, in short have as much fun as possible with your rat. Carry it around on your shoulder do everything you are likely to do anywhere with your rat... Test your commands... Watch carefully for anything that spooks it. Watch for freeze ups or panic attacks, one precedes the other. If there are people around introduce them to your rat. Some will be naturally curious, often you might even get mobbed, watch out for toddlers, they are extremely dangerous to rats. 

Now if your rat panics, freezes and doesn't get comfy in open spaces or around strangers given a few excursions, you bring your rat home and you have a perfectly good indoor rat. If your rat plays and has fun, but tends to run off and not come back within about 45 minutes, pr fails to follow commands or reacts poorly with people, the safe site can still be a good place to play with this rat but stop here... he's a limited shoulder rat.... Safe to go some places but not safe in traffic or in places he can disappear into. Some rats will tend to move further and further away from you every time you go out... they aren't properly bonded and are leaving you, and will bolt given the opportunity... they don't ever go beyond the safe site, and are best kept indoors. 

Now if you are very lucky and patient, one rat is going to act just like a puppy, it won't wander off too far or if it does it will come back, it will follow commands, and follow you around, It won't freeze or panic when it hears loud noises and if frightened it will run to you, it will really enjoy meeting kids and strangers and it will behave with real interest in it's brave new world.... That's your shoulder rat!

Still, you have to exercise care and take your rat to safer places first but every excursion can be a little more daring as you get to know your rat better and he or she gets more comfy with you... If you have a girl you should always avoid places where sexy wild boys hang out... but you will learn the signs when your girl gets hot and bothered and know when to get away before she goes courting.


Now to be entirely honest, the whole procedure can go very quickly, but don't rush it. In fact, if you have the right rat you can just about skip the safe site training... but if you don't spend enough time at the safe site, your first clue that you screwed up and your rat can't be a true shoulder rat is when you see your rat's tail disappear down a sewer grate. And that's always bad.

So now that the weather is getting warmer go out and scope out a safe site... it might be a large park, a cemetery, a corporate complex or any of many spacious places, preferably with walls, sewer grates, well kept lawns a few acres of space and some small bushes or trees etc. Scope it out for signs of wild rat infestation, poison mushrooms, wild animals and too much pedestrian or automobile traffic. Always look of for birds of prey when you go out. You won't see owls coming at night. Once you are satisfied that it's pretty much as safe as your living room, just a whole lot bigger, that's where you go to train your rats one at a time and see how they do. Fuzzy Rat was a natural... She was so happy and comfy to be outdoors she jumped a three foot stone wall and dove into a hedge planting to explore, 45 minutes later she bounded right out at the same place she went in... The hedge planting was about 50 feet by 10 feet and surrounded by about 30 acres of lawn, so she wasn't really going anywhere. It was completely safe. We could have gone in after her, but we just waited and when she came back on her own, she pretty much graduated safe site training.

Amelia won't get off my shoulder, if I put her down she rebounds right up my leg, sure I can take her just about anywhere under my coat, but that's not a true shoulder rat, if we get separated she'll panic. So for her, it's mainly stores and indoor places where she feels more comfy. She was neglected by her former owners and got screwed up, she still may evolve, but chances are she'll never be a true shoulder rat even though she's great with commands indoors and very well bonded to us. She's high strung and unless she gets over her terrors she's never going to be completely safe outdoors.

So don't guess, experiment and learn. If your rat can't make it at the safe site it won't make it elsewhere. If your rat does well at the safe site you slowly move on to more interesting locations as you gain experience handling your rat, safe within your rats limits gets more and more broadly defined. Either way you don't kill or lose your rats.

And yes... there are folks that never did the safe site and have great shoulder rats... and there are people that skipped the safe site and don't have any rats left. Don't be tempted to rush or cheat. 

As to the new boy.. young is fine for outdoor training Fuzzy Rat started out at only 4 weeks old. Still it's best to get bonding and command training out of the way before you go out.

Also keep in mind a young healthy rat can outrun you for at least 50 feet, real safety is measured in hundreds of feet of open ground.

Be safe and have fun.


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## Rat Daddy

justboringSarah

You are no killjoy and you raise a good if not slightly esoteric and complex point...

We are welcomed in many establishments that have a "no dog" policy. Not because our rat is a service animal, basically because it's a shoulder rat and not a dog of any kind. I would assume if an establishment had a no rat policy they could still welcome dogs. And yes, my daughter's school has a "no animals" policy since I went to pick my daughter up with our rat, but they still make exceptions for some dogs as some places with no pets policies make an exception for Fuzzy Rat. When we are outdoors our rat is legally classified as wild life, my State does not define rats as pets. So we can go anywhere a squirrel is permitted to go, even if it says no dogs or no pets.

I had a service dog, it wasn't working, but it had the tattoo in it's ear. Legally it's license was free and it could go anywhere I could in my State whether it was working or not. I understand the law. Unless the rat has an appropriate tattoo, it isn't a service animal.

There are places that allow common dogs, but not shoulder rats and places that allow rats and not common dogs by store policy or law. Service animals are a special case and have an entirely different set of rules. Just because rats aren't legally service animals doesn't make them legally dogs (or even pets) either.

Just to clarify how weird this can get, our town municipal complex has a no dog policy and the public library (part of the same building) has a no animal policy. So dogs have to stay outside the building, but shoulder rats can come into the complex, but can't go into the public library and service animals pretty much can go almost anywhere. Behind the building there is an outdoor dog area, and pretty much anyone can go there, but it has no accommodations for rats and likely being surrounded by free ranging dogs would not be a good idea for shoulder rats, there are however no separate shoulder rat accommodations provided by the town.

I've read that some psychologists are recommending rats as companion (not service) animals for certain patients, but so far at least, I've never heard of an application for service status being awarded a rat, until that changes service animals will remain in a class by themselves.

But no matter how you look at it, shoulder rats aren't and shouldn't be treated like common dogs either. There are so few shoulder rats out there that most places take a wait and see attitude when we walk in. As Fuzzy Rat often entertains their patrons and their staff most businesses look forward to our visits and in winter ask when she's coming back out. People just like Fuzzy Rat. No one has actually ever asked us if she was some kind of a service animal and we've never claimed she is anything but a well trained shoulder rat. 

Lastly, and honestly I can't see any connection between where we take our shoulder rat and where service animals can go. Seriously, just because a business allows shoulder rats doesn't mean it's going to ban service dogs in favor of rats. First it would be unlawful, second I would think that if they open their doors to shoulder rats they are more likely to allow other animals too. If you know of a single place that permits shoulder rats that prohibits service animals I'd love to hear about it. I'll even support your protest and bring my shoulder rat.


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## Poisoned

Sort of off topic, but not unrelated, on how fast an outdoor adventure can go wrong. My 'shoulder rat' was 'accidentally' let go outside of my house with his brother by my family member. By the time I rushed home from a street over he'd already been attacked by a wild rat and was in a state of panic. I could not catch him, and the last I ever saw of him was him going under a bush, and into a rat hole. Where I'm sure he was slaughtered by the wild males. Luckily his brother came to my voice and was unscathed. Both of these boys had been outside with my countless times, they both came any time they were called, they were not afraid of much, and they actually lived outdoors at their previous home - and of all things another rat is what killed him, ten feet from my door. 

With any animal, taking it outdoors unrestrained is very dangerous. And you really should put a lot of thought into it.


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## Ruka

I'm keeping an eye on this thread.


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## Rat Daddy

Poisoned

You are not off topic at all! All of those warnings at the beginning of this thread are real. My shoulder rat is a girl so we haven't faced male on male aggression... There is however a strange hole in my dad's back yard and my big girl won't leave my side when I'm back there. When she was younger we have had to deal with wild male attraction issues. Knowing where wild rats are and avoiding them is excellent policy. 

But your case is an excellent example of things that can go very wrong very quickly and hopefully everyone who has a shoulder rat or wants one will read it. Had you known about this hazard up front, you might have avoided it, hopefully now everybody does and will. It's also worth noting that the rat that didn't panic and came to you like a good shoulder rat should survived which goes to the importance of training and knowing your rat. 

I'm actually very sorry for your rat, and we all misjudge situations and screw up. We learned about owls in a similar fashion. Fuzzy Rat wanted to go the car, but I was talking to someone and she stayed glued to my shoulder, suddenly from right overhead we heard a very angry owl screeching. It was a moonless but otherwise clear night and none of us could make out the predictor against the stars from what was likely only 30 feet away. If my rat hadn't recognized the danger, she might have been free ranging 50 feet from us and could have been swept up. After that we stay very close to her after dark. I honestly didn't know we had owls in town and pretty much thought I'd see one if is showed up, but I was very wrong and if it weren't for Fuzzy Rat being more aware than I was, and no small amount of luck my story would have ended much like yours. 

Thank you for sharing your story. I know it was painful. But it happens and these are the risks we need to accept when we take our shoulder rats outside. Your rat may or may not be dead, it might have joined a new pack, but either way it's lost to you. Hopefully your story saves other rats.

So far from off topic, your post is exactly what I was hoping to read on this thread. The object of the exercise is not to convince people to take their rats outside, they are going to do it anyway. The purpose is to try and teach people to do it more safely and be aware of the dangers and learn to avoid them.

Now that the experience is over, in 20/20 hindsight, were there any warning signs you might have overlooked that might help other people recognize when they are in a wild rat infested area? I watch for holes and of course rats, and traps or bait stations, and my girl's courting behavior. I also watch for my girl getting suddenly uncomfortable and look for danger of any kind. Last time my girl freaked out for no reason we spotted a fox about 200 yards up wind. Not exactly a close call, but close enough. Is there anything you might be able to add to our collective knowledge? Were your boys being apprehensive or puffing up or showing any signs of the danger that might give someone else with boys some early warning?


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## Rumy91989

In light of the potential interaction between true shoulder rats and wild rats, might it be good practice to at least spay female shoulder rats? Wouldn't that get rid of not only the risk of accidental pregnancy but also the desire for the females to seek out the males when they catch their scent?


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## Rat Daddy

If you know your female, her behavior rings alarm bells through to your very core. It's how we know there are wild rats around. She starts preening gets all doe eyed and starts to wander in an irregular path following the boys scent trail. Yup, this is the time to scoop her up and find a new play area.

So what seems like a negative actually works out as an early warning system if you are watching closely. I'm wondering what the male warning signs are. 

After two years of exploring our town... The elementary school is rat infested right through the playground through the park, along the river down to the trailer park. The woods along the turnpike and by the train track are infested and we don't go there. There's a very attractive male living down my street in the town tow yard next to the soccer field according to Fuzzy Rat. The attraction begins about 5 feet before you hit the fence. So the soccer field up to the one goal is a safe play area, but beyond the goal she starts preening and daydreaming. Note: no wild rat is going to come out onto the soccer field as long as humans are anywhere around.

The waterfront park is however rat free as it's surrounded by food warehouses that have traps and bait stations around them every 30 feet or so and wild cats, owls and foxes living in the rushes. The bait stations owls, cats and foxes can cause their own problems, but they solve others. 

It's hard to explain, but as a long time trainer you really develop lots of coping strategies. Like for example, when I get out of the car I just automatically look up and scan the sky. Whenever I go anywhere I inventory fences Fuzzy Rat can get through where I can't follow and watch for holes, sewer grates and natural shelters that could be hiding something or might attract her. For us, it'a completely involuntary now, it's just what we do. For anyone else they should practice at the safe site until it becomes a reflex for them too. It's not all about training the rat, after the safe site it's all about learning not to get your rat killed.

Spaying might help, but it isn't necessary. Seriously, if your not watching your rats behavior and you can't tell when your girl starts preparing for a date, you're going to kill your shoulder rat anyway. (not to sound harsh, but it really is obvious) I also suspect that if you drop a male shoulder rat into another rat packs territory, he will know it and also behave differently, rats leave scent marks he'll pick right up on. But someone with a male shoulder rat is going to have to help us out here with the specifics.


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## Muttlycrew

Well, my babyTwiggy seems as if he may become a shoulder rat.  he's a teeny bopper currently but I don't imagine he'll ever be "big" or even average. He was of an oops litter and was somewhat deformed as a baby, and remained about half the size of the others as he got older. Well I take him outside all the time, but normally he just hangs out on me somewhere. Today, though, I was having a bonfire in my yard (we live in the sticks) and had a tent and outdoor chairs up and I was sitting on a log when he started to run down my leg.
Before I knew it he jumped off my leg and started walking around. He got to about 10 feet away so, on the edge of being worried, I called out to him. "Come then, Twiggy" and he ran directly toward me, onto my hand, and then to my shoulder. It's been forever since I've had a shoulder rat. None have been the right material. He just might be, though. Yay! 


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## Rat Daddy

Muttlycrew,

Twiggy sounds promising. Start carefully and gently bringing him though the steps and see how he develops. You've had a shoulder rat before so you know the drill. He earns your trust one step at a time. 

Fuzzy Rat came out of a feeder bin, so you never know which rat has the gift.

Still if he's the real deal, and you train him right you are going to be one lucky rat owner, your gamble on the runt really paid off. All rats are great and precious, but there's nothing like a true shoulder rat. Take him some place safe and start his training, if your right he should fast track right through it.


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## Poisoned

Rat Daddy said:


> Now that the experience is over, in 20/20 hindsight, were there any warning signs you might have overlooked that might help other people recognize when they are in a wild rat infested area? I watch for holes and of course rats, and traps or bait stations, and my girl's courting behavior. I also watch for my girl getting suddenly uncomfortable and look for danger of any kind. Last time my girl freaked out for no reason we spotted a fox about 200 yards up wind. Not exactly a close call, but close enough. Is there anything you might be able to add to our collective knowledge? Were your boys being apprehensive or puffing up or showing any signs of the danger that might give someone else with boys some early warning?


I did know there were rats in the area, well, there are rats just about everywhere in the city. But, other than the holes under my neighbors shed, the only other way I'd know they were there was hearing them fight at night, and seeing them dart in and out of the shed. They steal food from the gardens during the warm months, and spend a lot of time around my ponds, drinking, probably eating snails. Every once in a while there is a definite rat smell around that shed, and the pampas grass they live in. Rats LOVE pampas grass. When it's mature, the base is thick, insulated, and easy to carve tunnels out of. They have a whole rat city in there.

Birds of prey are a real concern.. I've never had a real incident with one, but when they fixate on an animal they don't seem to care too much if there is a human around, I nearly got hit by one (a small hawk) who was attacking a dove overhead. A rat on a shoulder could be a real mess, but there isn't much you can do but keep an eye out. One big ol' hawk used to come daily to my yard and sit over their outdoor enclosure. Ever get on the ground, and would only leave if I chased him off.


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## Rat Daddy

We took our girl into the tall grasses next to the turnpike and she kept getting drawn down the rat trails... With girl shoulder rats, wild rats are more of an attractive nuisance than an outright life or death hazard. When our girl finds rat infestation she starts acting all excited and that's when we we move elsewhere.

But watching out for wild rat packs really needs to be on every shoulder ratter's radar, especially if they have boys. Thanks for bringing it up.

As to birds of prey, we've never had trouble with hawks, but one night an owl started screeching right above us. It didn't have the courage to snatch our rat from our shoulder, but it was pretty mad about it. The strangest thing was that when we looked up we couldn't see it. The owl was dead silent on the feather and undifferentiated from the dark sky. If our rat hadn't sensed it somehow and run to us, we never would have seen the threat coming. After that experience Fuzzy Rat heads to the car or home at dusk. And she will usually take the path that provides the most overhead cover.


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## Phantom

I have a question about my choice for a safe site.
My backyard basically consists of a screened in area that includes a porch and a pool. It's an outside area, but it's screened in so nothing can get out or in. Would this be a safe area to start out at or should I go for something even further outdoors?


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## Rat Daddy

The danger with back yards is that they seem safe to us, but are not safe to rats. A chain link fence for example won't slow down a rat, and the neighbors dogs on the other side of that fence might be a problem and a crawl space under the house is an inviting danger and might hide wild rats. We feel so safe in our backyards and front yards, we are more prone to overlook real dangers there than elsewhere.

Our front yard looked like a perfect training location until Fuzzy Rat bolted through the neighbor's hedges and disappeared. She came back on her own after 45 minutes, and we went and found our safe site. In retrospect her escape route was only about 25 feet long, and a fast young rat can clear 25 feet before you can react. So by the time we were in hot pursuit she was already gone. 

If you really want to consider your own yard as a safe site discard your personal preconceptions and feeling of safety there. You are not a rat, but try and see it as a rat would. Then go outside and assume the worst, are there holes in the fence or wall, are there places where your rat can get under are there fences she can get through. If she runs straight at the street what's to stop her from getting hit by a car? 

One day at the beach Fuzzy Rat wanted to go to some bushes on private property next to the public beach. She jumped into the lake and swam along shore for over 50 feet, then she bolted across about 15 feet of tall grass, then she scampered up a 7 foot field stone wall and ducked though a chain link fence.

We recalled her and she came back in about 5 minutes wet and cold, but she proved her point. Lake, lawn, wall and fence were not even going to slow her down. She ran up the field stone wall like it was a staircase. 

There are a very few backyards that might actually make adequate safe sites. Sure there's an outside possibility that someone in this forum lives in a mansion and has a 40 acre back lawn or lives on a Dallas style ranch with a quarter mile of front yard or lives in a castle with imposing walls and a moat. The White house for example has a great front lawn for training rats. 

But for everybody else there are vast public and quasi-public spaces where rats can safely be trained all around us, you just have to look for one. 

As to a completely screened in outdoor area, although it seems safe enough if there are no gaps or holes, the object of the exercise is to have the space to screw up, to adjust your techniques and see how your rat responds to various different real life situations before you walk across a busy parking lot with cars, stray dogs and inquisitive strangers. I'm not sure just how real-life a screen room can get.


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## PaigeRose

Hello!First, I would like to thank everyone who has posted on this forum. I am a new rat owner but experienced dog trainer and the first thing I thought of when getting rats was "wow wouldnt it be cool to take them everywhere?" But I had no idea the risks and training it involved, and I had no idea there was a term for it! So I am thankful for all I have learned so far and I am glad I havent taken any of mine outside yet!I do have a couple of questions.


First, is there something I can give my rats as a reward that they wont take off and hide it? My girls have learned that when they come out of the cage on their own, they get a treat, but as soon as its in their mouth, they run and hide it in the cage, and come back for more. Is this just a simple problem of not asking enough of them? They learned that coming to the cage door gets a treat so should I just be building on that and making them do more for their reward? Is it okay for them to take it and hide it (not eat it) and come back for more? Also none of my rats will eat food out of the cage which makes training difficult :/



Another question I have is about trust. Sophie is the only one out of the three that seems to scream potential for the shoulder rat. She has never been afraid of us or anything in the house, enjoys stretching her boundaries, and is a fast learner. But how do I know that she trusts me? How can I be positive shes ready to move on to training outside?Thanks for any advice in advance


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## Rat Daddy

The best treats are hugs and skritches, like dogs reward rats instantly, discipline instantly. Rats are very communicative animals, they are social creatures like dogs and are constantly talking to you, and they are observing you to try and understand... They are not "small animals" or "pocket pets" Regard your rats as you would any emotional thinking animal and you will be on the right page.

As to trust, once you are the pack alpha your rats should demonstrate their affection and trust in you, again like training dogs... you know when your dogs respect and follow you and when they love you.

As to outdoor training, please read my long thread on the subject... you will learn most of what you need to know there...

But it's all about the safe site. You find your safe site and you work with your rats there. Sure you screw up and maybe your rats panic and likely everything that can go wrong will... it's all fine at your safe site. Once you have spent enough time at the safe site you will know if you have a potential true shoulder rat or not.... and then you slowly expand your travels and your rats horizons knowing what signals of stress to watch for. 

From being a rat pup at the safe site, to being amazing it was a process of learning both for Fuzzy Rat and her handlers.


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## sara1991

I'd love to be able to do this. A.T.M they will sit on my shoulder when im sat down but dont like it when i stand up. My rats that passed away some years ago loved going for rides round the house on my shoulder, this would never be possible with Ben and Jerry though because of Poppy (my miniature schnauzer) The other dogs never bothered with the rats I had before, Bram was scared of them and sky just loved them they would craw all over her lol. Its funny how the little cute dog would attack them given half a chance but the bigish dogs (english bull terriers) were either scared of them or just totally adored them. Best of luck to anyone starting this training


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## jarjarb

Hey Rat Daddy,

I would love to train one of my rats to do this in the future! Not just for training/showing-off's sake, but I think it really allows it to live at ease and live life to the fullest. Unfortunately, I'm in a very busy season of my life, so I won't be able to do it until a couple years from now, but I can't help but start to think/plan/wonder about the possibilities.

In regards to picking the right rat, do you think there are any tricks to maximize the chances that the rat will make a good shoulder rat? (outside of the fact that it should look least rat-like to prevent freaking people out). I know Fuzzy Rat was a feeder rat, do you recommend feeder rats? Is there a particular trait you looked for when you picked Fuzzy Rat? Is there an optimal age to adopt them at and also an age to start training at? I know you've only really learned with Fuzzy Rat so it's not down to a science, but I would love to hear your thoughts. I think that in some ways a feeder rat might be better? A lot of breeders these days want you to fill out all these questionnaires to screen buyers, and for good reason, but I can't imagine that they would be very receptive of trying to train a shoulder rat. Also, where do you even find "feeder rats"? Just at any pet store - I may be ignorant because I hadn't paid attention to rats in pet stores, but I don't remember just seeing a bunch of feeder rats sitting around at my local pet stores.

Also, do you think it would be possible to train two shoulder rats and have them outside at the same time? I know that you recommend that when you are training to only focus on one rat at a time. But if you were able to train two rats in safe areas and they both became good candidates for shoulder rats, do you think it's plausible to have two rats outside at the same time? Or does the attention needed to take care of one rat preclude you from having two outside at once? I could imagine that if you had two outside, it could get a little hectic trying to keep your eyes out for both of them. 

Just wondering!


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## Dinoclor

This seems to be the most recent shoulder rat topic, so I don't see why I shouldn't bump it, as it already has some great discussion 

My rat, Flaxie, I am training to be a shoulder rat. An SR in a very limited sense- At least right now, I only want her sitting on my shoulder. I don't want her running away, and when she's doing something interesting she tends not to come back to me until she's done. She can sit on my shoulder and arm as I'm going around the house, and once I have taken her on the (shortish) walk to pick up my brother from school. She seemed to take it well- she sat on my shoulder looking around. She also seemed to be fine with all the kids going up to me and asking questions and petting her, which is pretty good. She never bites.

The things I need to train her to do:

Walk next to me (I'll probably end up needing to make a rat harness, I'm not sure I trust her outside. I think she'd run off and join the wild rat population. She's darn fast.)

Not crawl down my sweater (She only did that once, but it was pretty annoying. I'm not sure how to teach her to do that.)

Come back to me even if there's an interesting thing over there, or if she can't see my hand.

"On shoulder!" command

It would also be useful to train her to sit on my shoulder even if I sit down on something instead of jumping down and exploring.

Any suggestions would be useful. I doubt she'll ever be like Fuzzy Rat, who sounds like an awesome rat, by the way, and I would be terrified of letting her loose in a tree... crazy human for letting your rat go there!


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## Dinoclor

Ack! Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't read through the entire thread. I didn't realize taking your rat out on your shoulder wasn't shoulder ratting... it's name doesn't make very much sense.

Sorry!


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## Rat Daddy

Don't apologize, the term shoulder rat comes from the way most outdoor rats are carried, which is on the shoulder... Of course riding on a person's shoulder is about the least thing a true shoulder rat can do.

First of all when you first take your rat out it will be stressed. And if you go into a wide open location it will be very stressed. Even wild rats don't cross open fields during the day time and rarely at night. Rats are pre-programmed to want to be in small protected places so it's hard for a rat to get over it's agoraphobia. A shoulder rat does, because it trusts you, you are it's alpha an if you can walk about in the open it figures you know what you are doing and overrides it's better judgment. As a shoulder rat becomes more comfortable outdoors, it actually becomes harder to manage because it wants to explore the brave new world. So oddly enough you go from a well behaved rat affixed to you like glue to a rat that will free range and explore around you. And yes, it may find something interesting and not come back right away even if it is well trained.

This is why safe site training is absolutely imperative. At the safe site you can allow your rat to free range away from you and explore and then come back on command or on it's own, you can teach it to walk alongside you as you go and you can play with it as in chase it and have it chase you like rats would play. 

What you will learn at your safe site is how far your rat will roam from you, what distracts it, what makes it panic, how it deals with strangers and if it is properly bonded to you. At the safe site your rat will learn to explore outdoors safely and with very little stress and you will learn how to work with your rat and what spooks it and how it reacts to commands and unexpected stimuli. The safe site is exactly what it sounds like a safe place for you and your rat to learn to work together as a team with no or a few controlled risks.

So after you feel your rat is bonded to you and you are the alpha... you find your safe site and after you read the chapter on safe site training in this post that's where you go to experiment. If your rat can't deal with the safe site, it shouldn't ever be taken anywhere else and you found out you don't have a shoulder rat without killing it... If your rat handles the safe site well you are on your way to having your own shoulder rat.

The following photos were taken at our safe site this spring:


Amelia although still agoraphobic likes to hang out in trees where she feels safe (she's actually pretty stressed in this photo) But small trees like this really give a rat a sense of security, with patience they will follow you out into the open spaces if they are ever going to be shoulder rats. We haven't given up, but Amelia is a long way from being a shoulder rat.








Fuzzy Rat just goofing off and posing for the camera, no problems with being out in the open:








I'm not sure but I think Amelia might be in that tree... But notice the vast lawn surrounding our play area. Three sides of the park are surrounded by water as it's actually on a peninsula. The park is mostly lawn and it's about 40 acres of rat safe play area. (except for the occasional poison mushroom) Also notice the rats one hiding in the tree (not a shoulder rat) the other weebling out to follow us (true shoulder rat). Neither rat is running away as both are well bonded to us.









This is pretty much what you are looking for to train a shoulder rat.


By the way the correct command to get your rat up on your shoulder from your arm is not "on shoulder" it's just "shoulder rat". But you should use what you prefer.


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## Dinoclor

I'll probably do more indoors training, and have a think about what kind of place could be a safe site. There are a couple of outdoor sports fields that I could go to... but under a tree would be better, but I don't know of any trees that are the right size. There are a couple trees that I climb myself, but they're pretty huge and the point of the tree is that you don't chase your rat up it.

I suppose I can keep taking her out on my shoulder so that she can get used to being in wider spaces.


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## Dinoclor

Maybe Flaxie isn't cut out to be a shoulder rat after all. I've set her down under a small tree in our front yard, and even set her on the tree trunk and she climbed right back up me onto my shoulder. When I stand up next to her she is terrified and runs and hides. Whenever I put her down on the floor in a room inside my house, she prefers to sit on my shoulder rather than explore (Except in the room where the food and treats is kept ಠ_ಠ)

I'll try just taking her out on my shoulder more often and feeding her treats so that maybe she can associate outside shoulder rides with good things. Inside the house she will crawl around on me a bit, but outside she mainly sits under my hair with her head peeking out and looking around. But maybe looking around is a good thing?


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## Rat Daddy

"I suppose I can keep taking her out on my shoulder so that she can get used to being in wider spaces." 

Wow, that really frightens me! Eight web pages, mainly containing warnings about not doing precisely that and somehow that's what people get? Where did I go wrong? Nooooo!: Bad human; NO! 

When you cross a road with a rat and it spooks it can get hit by a car. To most humans crossing a road or walking on a sidewalk is a no-risk activity. To a shoulder rat trainer even the parked cars are hazards where a rat can dash under. And sooner or later you are going to have to put your rat down on the ground to pee and poop or you are going to get awful embarrassed in front of your friends. 

And no, I've never climbed a tree to get Fuzzy Rat down, and yes I've had to wait for her on warm days as she munched those tiny little tree leaves way up high and swayed in the breeze, preened and played rat-master of the universe. Sure she came down on command.... after she got bored of playing tallest rat in the world.

Back to my point:

Even if you are young and spry and fast, and so is your rat, chances are that your rat can outrun you for up to 50 feet in a flat out sprint taking into account your rat knows it's about to bolt and catches you flatfooted. That means you will catch up to it somewhere in your neighbor's back yard, if he doesn't have a dog and there isn't a fence between you and where you would catch your rat that it can jump through it and you can't.

At the safe site you will learn this and much more. You will develop a real feel for your rat and an understanding of it's perspective on the world.

One day Fuzzy Rat freaked out and wouldn't leave our side, ten minutes later a fox came out of the rushes more than 200 yards away... not much of a threat as she smelled him long before we saw him, but she also smelled freshly baited rat traps from nearly a quarter mile off and we followed her right to one and she very much resented us snatching her before she went in... When you are walking through a forest with your rat you are on high alert, but when you are walking past a dense hedge or large planting of hostas you are at ease because you have walked by them thousands of times, but a rat can easily disappear into either. By my dad's cabin in the woods huge snapping turtles would come out to lay their eggs every spring. They were an obvious threat, but the tick nymphs in the grass were what actually got our rat, not the giant carnivorous turtles.

You see, you are huge and you see your normal world as a safe place. Your back yard where you played as a small child is not threatening to you at all, chain link fences provide security, but for a rat a chain link fence is no obstacle and there may be plenty of dangers or hiding places for a rat in your own yard. If your rat outruns you by only 30 feet it can be under a car or in your neighbor's dog pen before you can do anything about it. It's the dangers you don't see because you are so accustomed to them being there, or not being dangerous to you that will kill your rat way faster than a fox or raptor. Sure we always watched the sky for raptors, but I didn't even know we had owls in town until one night once came after Fuzzy Rat. And from only 10 feet above, we could neither see nor hear it.... Luckily we had Fuzzy Rat on shoulder and the bird got angry and started screeching... We looked up and saw nothing against the dark sky but we heard the angry bird right above us. Car doors aren't scary to us, but rats like to hang their heads out them, this can end very badly very quickly if you forget to look just once.

In short, that which will actually cost you your rat is the stuff you take for granted and won't recognize as a threat until it is too late. What can be safer than a rat on your shoulder? Consider what could be less safe than it panicking and bolting into traffic? Your happy walk is only one split second away from a dead rat. No you won't learn all this at the safe site, but you will learn to understand your rat's stress levels and you will practice your commands under real world conditions and your rat will learn to feel more comfortable outdoors and panic less often and it should learn to run to you for safety. And that is a great start. You get a known point to build on, and just as importantly if your rat can't cope at the safe site, you know you can't walk him down the sidewalk or cross the street with him.

But just like dangers, safe sites hide in plain sight. For example we went to the cemetery last year and had Fuzzy Rat along. It was quiet and empty and it had lots of small shrubs and trees and Fuzzy Rat had a blast exploring, running from one grave stone to a small shrub or another small planting to another grave marker. It was actually a very perfect safe site that I had never noticed before. Safe sites hide all around you, public parks get few visitors on weekdays and people usually keep to the paved trails, corporations often have nicely planted campuses with small shrub plantings, old brown fields are a blast for rats to explore, even if they present certain chemical risks and the possibility of wild rats. A safe site might be smaller if it has tall walls around it rather than vast open lawns. A school playground after hours is usually empty. And the list goes on. Within half an hour from your home there's a 99% possibility that there's a perfectly good safe site you know of but are overlooking.

As to indoor training... yes it's good to work with your rat indoors before going outside, but honestly there isn't much you can learn from being indoors. Fuzzy Rat is a complete primadonna indoors. It's her home, she does as she pleases and has no interest in commands or directions or what her humans want from her. If you aren't holding food, there's no sense even calling her. Outdoors where she's awake and her stress levels are raised she's right on the ball and follows commands and stays with her pack (us). So your perfect shoulder rat outdoors might perfectly disregard your very existence indoors as ours does. In fact Fuzzy Rat is so comfortable and stress free indoors it's like she's sleep walking and will often just crawl under or behind something and take a nap, whereas outdoors she acts more awake and alert and performs on command. Fuzzy Rat is so comfortable traveling she's fallen asleep in my arms at the bank and while I've been talking to people in shops. Shoulder rats develop a Thorazine personality, it takes a lot to raise their adrenaline levels. The same thing that keeps them from spooking at a fireworks show makes them harder to control indoors... We're starting face the same issues with Amelia, the more relaxed she's getting outside, the less she obeys inside. It's kind of like the more competent a rat gets, the less it depends on you for direction. When things get dangerous, you are the go-to human. When there's no danger it knows exactly what it wants to do and you are talking to yourself. Like a cute little obedient kid grows into an independent teenager. "Eat your peas" doesn't usually work with teenagers, nor does come home by 10:00 PM. Shoulder rats, like teens eventually come to the conclusion that they know some things better than you. They analyze risks for themselves and when they sense no danger you are irrelevant. When their stress factor is higher, outside the home, they become obedient and for rats that aren't true shoulder rats, when their stress factor gets too high they spook. Training a shoulder rat involves knowing when it's going to spook before it does and managing the situation before it bolts under a car. Well trained true shoulder rats never spook... they are easy to manage, but it's when you are getting there, at the safe site that things can go wrong quickly... but at least they go wrong safely.

Because rats behave very differently outdoors and indoors there's very little you can learn or teach your rat indoors that applies to the great outdoors... shoulder rats need to be trained outdoors and you need to build your rat handling skills outdoors. And things will go wrong! Please let them go wrong where your rat won't get lost, hurt or even killed. 

After a few sessions at the safe site, you will have a whole different view on the world and a whole different respect for your rat and you may have a shoulder rat in training. And as you and your rat become more competent and confident, things will still go wrong and get hairy, but you will both be better prepared to deal with a crisis. Rats outdoors are always at huge risk, but at least you will have a fair chance of bringing your rat home every day you go out.

I'm sorry for the long post and in part it's tone... but so many rats get killed outdoors by people who are just taking them for a walk on their shoulders or taking them into the back yard. And I so understand that going to a safe site to train seems so unnecessary, and sometimes with the right rat it might be, but the price of a single screw up is your rat's life. And you will have lots of fun at the safe site. So please don't skip safe site training and then work your way up to stores, sidewalks and crossing roads. Fuzzy Rat trained with us at the safe site for less than a week before she and we were ready to move on, we had a blast and she had great fun there. And after we left the safe site we still had plenty of close calls, but without the safe site experience chances are good there would be no Fuzzy Rat. 

A true shoulder rat is the finest animal you will ever train. Owning one is a pleasure and a privilege. Among rat owners, shoulder ratters are the smallest fraternity and in large part a myth along with true shoulder rats. Think about it, if your rat becomes a true shoulder rat, it will be one of a very few in the entire world. It will do and be what most rats never dream of. If it were easy everyone would own a shoulder rat. If you follow the guidelines in this thread and avoid all of the dangers I've outlined and survive situations we haven't encountered, you will have the time of your life and so will your rat... if you screw up you will have a "bad day". In shoulder ratting a bad day is when you come home without your rat, and believe me it happens... It's the horrific part of being a shoulder ratter that we usually can't bring ourselves to talk about.

Best luck and be careful.


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## Rat Daddy

I just saw your last post... and it's completely normal for a rat to stick to you like glue when you get to the safe site. This is a bad place for your rat's head to be at... actually she's on the verge of panic and on the verge of breaking training and getting spooked and running off.

At the safe site you just sit with her under the tree and she will eventually relax and walk on the ground near you and over time she will grow more confident and explore the tree or shrubs. And with every step she takes away from you she becomes less and less likely to spook. By our third day outside Fuzzy Rat was exploring the trees and out into the open field, we first started walking her along a wall where she felt more secure and by the end of the week she walked across the open field at heel or at least following us as she sniffed about munching weeds.

Some rats never leave your side or the safety of the tree. You tend to think of them as "too perfect". But they are actually your biggest risk. They are sticking to you because they are at maximum stress level and you are safety. It won't take much to spook them and they will bolt under something. You can usually walk to the car with them, and go to quiet places and even stores that aren't cluttered for short times, but the longer they are outside the more anxious they will get and sooner or later you will be chasing your rat.

I worked with these "too perfect" rats, they are very hard to manage, and it usually ends in a bad day. Our Amelia is still there after being with us 6 months. Some rats take longer than others to adapt to the outdoors but if your rat doesn't get comfortable at the safe site stop there or you will eventually lose her.


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## Rat Daddy

I should add that on our final day at the safe site, she jumped a three foot wall and dove into a planting of shrubs... it was about 50 feet long and 20 feet wide and she was gone from sight. I sent my daughter to watch one end of the planting while I watched the other so she couldn't get out without being seen. It was dense and it would have been doable but difficult to recover her. After 45 minutes she popped back out of the bushes right where she went in and stood up to be picked up on hand. Fuzzy Rat could be relied on to come back, and since she's done it several times and always come back. That's when you absolutely know you've got a true shoulder rat on your hands and your risks of losing your rat or getting it killed become substantially minimized.


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## Dinoclor

I think I will probably not have Flaxie become a shoulder rat. I don't want her to get lost, and after thinking about it, there are just too many dangers. There are no proper safe sites around, and there are cats and bears and dogs, and I don't want her jumping off my shoulder. Maybe in a few years when I am more experienced with rats and have the ability to buy a young rat that I can socialize for long periods of time every day and find a proper safe spot to train outside.


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## Rat Daddy

As much as I love to share the shoulder ratting experience with other people, my first purpose is to prevent other people from killing their rats. 

Sharing your life with a rat like Fuzzy Rat is rewarding beyond words, but killing your rat is a tragedy that's just too hard...

With the right rat, and a good safe site, and patience and good judgment the risks are manageable and the rewards are awesome, but every shortcut you take brings you 10 times closer to disaster.

Hopefully you will find a good safe site someday and find out if you have the right rat there, where you won't get it killed or lost. Then when you are ready, I'll be happy to help you and your rat to start the adventure of your life together beyond the safe site. And always remember, it's not the cats, dogs or bears that are going to kill your rat... you are already aware of them... it's the stuff you take for granted like cars, doors, shrubs and tall grass where your rat can panic and run off into.

Once your rat is beyond panic attacks and you can confidently control your rat, which you safely learn at the safe site and you can manage the little, hidden and most lethal risks; cats, dogs and bears are easier, believe it or not.

Before your rat can be a true shoulder rat, she has to be alive. You are making a wise decision and your rat should be proud to have you as her owner.


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## Voltage

Been looking for this thread. I decided to take my boy Jorah to the store today since he is the calmest and most relaxed of my rats. He did so well, did not get spooked once in the busy store and ran down my arm to meet the people who wanted to pet him happily. He didn't even have issues in the parking lot. And on the way home he was so happy he was bruxing and boggling.
Because he was doing so amazingly I decided to let him explore the front lawn a bit. At first he was very nervous and stuck by me but within the few minutes he was out there he was already getting a couple feet away from me munching and sniffing the grass. He ran back to me upon being called and we went back inside. I let him on the ground of the living room where my boyfriend 's little brother and friends were playing video games. And he would run about a bit and explore. Whenever anyone made a loud noise that spooked him, instead of bolting under the nearest cover he ran back to me and hid behind my feet. He would let me scoop him up as well.
Do you think Jorah has what it takes to be a true shoulder rat? We just got him the day before father 's day so he hasn't been with us too long.

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## Voltage

I'd also like to add that I kept a very close eye on the surroundings and kept him far way from bushes that may have hid a predator. I understand the dangers and will never take an unnecessary risk. 
I mostly want to be able to take him places with me out of carrier, not necessarily have him run around on the ground.

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## Rat Daddy

Everything you wrote tells me Jorah has lots of great potential. He sounds pretty much exactly the kind of rat you want to start out with. But do read the thread and spend as much time as you can at a safe site. At the safe site you will improve your rat management skills and you will get a better feeling for how Jorah will behave under outdoor circumstances.

As to how long you have had him, he appears to be bonded to you, which is great and absolutely necessary for any shoulder rat. 

As you have already discovered shoulder rats are great fun, and if you have the right rat, it all feels so easy. It's like the rat is doing exactly what it's meant to be doing. Just remember to be very careful and watchful, your rat relies on your judgment to keep him alive. You screw up and he dies or never comes home. True shoulder rats are great fun, but they are a big responsibility. 

I'm glad you found this thread, I hope you find it helpful.

Best luck and I hope you have all the fun we do with our true shoulder rat Fuzzy Rat.


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## nanashi7

I have a question. My male rat, Remus, is a bit like what you consider an indoor shoulder rat. It actually happened by accident; he likes to untangle my curly hair and while free ranging someone rang the bell and I took him with me without thinking and it went well. From there, it evolved to him wanting to go along with my daily chores in the morning. We are working on going more places -- he got to ride along for fast food today and it was good. 
However, my female rat, Caius, doesn't listen as well to commands and gets nervous going places even within the house. I feel a bit bad that Remus gets to come out more (he is up at 8am on the dot and ready to go), when Caius prefers not to (lays in her hammock, won't move or respond). It's a bit like guilt, because while they all get free range in the evening, Remus's wanderings is time he gets alone.

I don't think Caius's personality makes her a good type to be out wandering, she prefers a good evening of cuddles with someone. Is it okay that they don't get equal time out? I can assure you they get equal affection (she prefers to settle in with some good treats and restore the cage from my fussing while Remus and I walk about). Am I being too nervous with Caius and should just keep working with her? Right now, she is a bit of a shy lover who likes cuddles -- pretty much what I was told a male would be lol. She is young, so is it something that would change with age?


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## Michael<3Ben

Ive had Ben for 2 days, and already he is a great indoor shoulder rat, he comes when called, and listens when I tell him No. I dont know what I did, but I must have done something right. Or maybe the pet store is to thank, either way, every1 loves him.

I waswondering if I should take the next step in training him, or if I should stop, I am prepared for the risks, ive trained smaller animals to stay still on my shoulder, my gerbils love goingnoutside, and I feel thats far scarier than a rat outside.

If I am to take the next step, how should I approach it?

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## Rat Daddy

Nanashi7,

Every rat has a different personality. True shoulder rats are rare. Fuzzy Rat was a true shoulder rat, she could go anywhere with us, our other rat... now our only rat, Amelia gets very anxious outdoors and is very hard to manage. She has gotten better with work and time, but she will most likely never be a true shoulder rat.

For your rat's safety you can only work with the rat that's competent and then only to it's limits.

You can of course bring your other rat to the safe site and work with her there to see how it goes.

I can't stress the value of a good safe site enough. It's a place outdoors where you can take any rat. This is where you work with your rats until you feel they are ready to go farther. Honestly, you sometimes get surprised at the safe site. Certain rats that you thought couldn't be competent outdoors just seem to wake up and get with the program while other rats that are perfect indoors just freak out or become very difficult to manage.

There is a very dark truth to shoulder ratting. Every now and then you will read a story about someone that just walked out the front door into traffic and realized they had a perfect shoulder rat. Some rats are in fact just about perfect without much if almost any training, And some people have good natural rat handling skills and that alone can be a combination for success. But the stories you don't usually read are about the ill-prepared owners taking their rats outside where they panic and get squished under a bus or vanish into the neighbors hedges never to be found again. Those stories are rarely told, but they happen more often than shoulder rats do.

There is a method behind this thread. The goal is to train shoulder rats while not getting your rats killed, both those that become true shoulder rats and those that don't.

So do take both your rats to a safe site, best one at a time, but only take the right rat out anywhere else. Don't worry about neglecting the rat that can't handle the great outdoors, it's much better to share quality time indoors later than to get your rat killed.

Michael<3Ben I got your PM and I sent you a reply.


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## Michael<3Ben

How can you tell if a rat is ready to move onto a safe site? or out of for that matter?


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## Rat Daddy

If you have chosen a really good safe site all of your rats are ready to go there once they have bonded with you and learned their basic commands. I mean it's in the name... it's safe. Basically it's a giant living room without the heavy furniture to hide under. Sure you might have to chase your rat or coax it or it might hide under a shrub, but you chose the place so as to make managing your rat easy. You picked convenient shelter for your rat to run to where he or she will be easy to recover. You should have some walls or wide laws your rat can't outrun you across and there shouldn't be any hidey holes or sewer grates to lose your rat down. There shouldn't be any cars to crush your rat and not too many people to bother you. Going to the safe site should be easy. You work with your rat there. Some rats that can't deal with open spaces just freak out and won't get off of you, those who aren't properly bonded to you duck for cover under the shrubs. But you work with each rat to see how it progresses, most will and you will be able to have fun at your safe site with most rats.

But a true shoulder rat will rapidly stand out. It will rapidly become comfortable being outdoors with you. It will explore and follow commands, it might walk at heel following you around. Over all it will start behaving like a puppy and be inquisitive and playful. This is your shoulder rat! You can't miss it, he or she is just different in every way from other rats, you can see the confidence and competence grow right before your eyes, sometimes you see it right from the first second when you put him or her on the ground.. sometimes it takes a few visits... but there's no mistaking it. Still you don't just move on, you practice your commands and see what bothers your rat and get a feel for how her or she behaves and just get comfortable managing him or her. Your rat should stay on shoulder or on you when you want him to and play and explore when you put him down. He should run to you when frightened or unsure and he should generally come (eventually) when recalled.

Once you leave the safe site, you can move to a playground or a slightly busier place where your rat will meet people... you are going to meet people almost wherever you go. And your rat should be friendly. No matter how competent your rat is, if he starts biting strangers you are going to get in trouble, same if he panics at the sight of people and tries to run away. Here you practice your human handling skills. I explain how to handle humans further back in the thread. You will need to handle people and manage the encounters so you don't get mobbed or cause a panic and your rat will do the rest.

Then you walk across a parking lot where car's aren't moving and go to smaller stores without too many people and you slowly work your way up to more complex situations.

Fuzzy Rat's final test was the town fireworks display on the 4th of July. I picked a place that seemed slightly away from the crowd and didn't have any dangerous places for her to run to if she panicked and there was a huge warehouse behind us so half of the escape routes were blocked, when the rockets went up, she was startled for a moment and then calmed down and held on to me tightly... (the echo from the warehouse wall didn't help but she managed it) I watched the fireworks reflecting in her eyes as she looked up in apparent amazement. That was her final test, and I walked right up under the areal show with her in my arms. No, she didn't do it on shoulder but was fine, safely in my arms.

I actually found the place that stressed her out the most and tested her limits was a tire shop. Rats really hate hissing air and loud unpredictable bangs and airguns. She didn't panic or run off, but she hung on for dear life and spent the ride home in the car under a blanket on the seat... She didn't break training, so I don't know what her actual limit was but that was as close as I ever wanted to get. Every rat will have a limit as the handler, it's something you always watch for and know how to deal with or avoid.


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## Michael<3Ben

I made a slight mistake and got in the car to go pick up my sister without noticing Ben was still on my shoulder. I noticed him about 5 minutes into the drive when he crawled up my arm onto the steering wheel and helped me drive, I was in shock, he had not jumped ship when the door slammed as I was pissed I had to pick her up, and that he managed to stay out of my notice for half the drive.

I knew the second i pulled up I couldnt leave him in the car, so i told him to "get on" and he climbed up my shoulder in seconds. I walked into the school just like that, with him lounging on my shoulder, and went in to pick Kate up.

Well the kids were in hysterics and I could have sworn Ben was gonna go nuts, but he stayed calm and was very friendly, he let the kids play with him for a while, and then I told Kate to pack up her stuff because it was time to go home. I walked toward the door, snapped my finger, and Ben came running back to me and skittered up my legs to my shoulder. We said goodbye to everyone and drove back home.

I might be wrong, but that sounds like a pretty darn good day.


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## Rat Daddy

Michael,

That was just a normal day with Fuzzy Rat, everyday. She went with us everywhere and meet and greets were just part of the fun. True shoulder rats are practically born to be what they are. Unless you are lucky enough to have one or see one in action they are hard to describe much less believe in.

Still, the world is big and dangerous and you really should do some formal training and testing both for you and Ben at a safe site.

Two quick pointers... CAR DOORS KILL RATS!!!!!!!!! That should be self explanatory, but rats love to hang their heads out open car doors or duck through them when they are closing. Before closing your car door ALWAYS make sure your rat is safely under control. Trust me on this one.

Second rats like to ride with their heads out the car window... this would seem cute at first, but unlike dogs, where rats heads fit so does the rest of the rat.... One fine day as I was driving down the highway and I look out the open window to find Fuzzy Rat car surfing on the side view mirror. I slowed down and hauled her back inside the car, but one quick stop and the law of physics called inertia would have splattered my shoulder rat all over the pavement. Be forewarned before you hit the brakes. Also watch for your rat getting under the brake peddle. Shoo him away whenever he gets close and he will get the message before you have to stomp on him to avoid a crash. Otherwise we always ride with the rats free ranging the car. 

Last comment, if it's hot where you are bring along a spray bottle of water so your rat doesn't overheat if the temp goes over 82 degrees. 

Best luck


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## Mitsy

I have messaged you about taking my rats outside and trying to find a safe zone here are some pictures of the areas. 

View attachment 62282
View attachment 62290
View attachment 62298


In these photos the second and third is the whole area and the first pictures is more of what is connected to it, I was thinking this area would be good because there is shade and a big open space but there is a road next to it I would be with them at all times and only take one rat out at a time.

View attachment 62314
View attachment 62322


This is the other area in the second picture it is the view from the road and in the first one the bushy tree is pine trees some other pushes that grow flowers. I would only let my rats near the pine trees and maple trees because i don't know if the other bushes and stuff are safe for them if they try to eat them.


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## Rat Daddy

The areas of concern are those areas of tall grass where rats can vanish into, and the porch attached to that house where rats can go under, the road looks pretty quiet. The small pine tree is nice. It's a good place for a rat to explore and run to if stressed.

Mostly if this is going to work for you, it depends on how fast you are as you don't have really big buffers... I can catch a rat in 100 to 150 feet if it's spooked and its a foot race over open level ground, my daughter can do better. Under 50 feet, by the time I get up and start moving the rat can make cover most of the time. So you have to have enough of a safety margin for you go get up and catch your rat before it reaches the tall grass or the house. Depending on how fast you are, you could work in the safe site you have chosen. If you aren't fast to get up or fast on your feet, a little more buffer would be better. I've seen how fast rats can run and they will for sure always get the jump on you, no one can catch a rat in the first 10 to 30 feet of them bolting, but after that it all depends on your reflexes and physical condition, there I can't advise you.

As to the berries, I've seen them, but I've never eaten them. Someone local to you should know what they are. You might be able to call your local parks department of department of agriculture. 

Be careful and have fun.


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## Mitsy

Thanks I will probably put them in the middle of the area and try to keep them there away from the tall grass it is quiet long even though the picture makes it look short and I can find out what they are easily they are a family members plant they are on a tall tree like bush.


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## Xerneas

I know this is an extremely strange question and I'm sorry lol, but it's nagging me -- you mentioned that Fuzzy Rat vomited after the mushrooms, but I thought rats couldn't vomit at all?


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## Rat Daddy

I read the same thing, but witnessed the opposite, smelled same and cleaned it up from the back floor of my car. After some debate on the topic, the general consensus is that rats may not be able to vomit but they can regurgitate. This may be putting a fine point on the matter, but it allows for rats to throw up when they can't vomit and everyone can be right.


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## cagedbirdsinging

http://www.ratbehavior.org/vomit.htm#Regurgitation


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## Rat Daddy

Yup, rat _regurgitate_ is thick and pasty, not watery or runny but it smells very much like human puke... It looks like a little hershey's kiss but one whiff and you will know its no treat.


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## cammipooh

So do your shoulder rats have free roam of your house, or are they caged most of the time?

Love, Cameron and Sneezes


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## ksaxton

I took my two girls out to PetSmart today, they have been outside before in my yard and enjoyed sitting on my shoulder and in the hood of my sweatshirt I wore backwards. They have very limited if not zero contact with anyone besides me because my family isn't too keen on rats. When I took them out today they both laid calmly in the hood of my sweatshirt but I think they weren't ready to come onto my shoulder yet with strangers around. Toffee napped, and Naydeen just quietly observed. There were dogs barking and people everywhere and neither of them spooked or acted at all affected. When I held them up to the guinea pig cage Naydeen poked her head out and gazed into the cage and then laid back down once she was done. A man in line behind me was interested in them and reached over to pet Naydeen and she raised her head and started sniffing/licking his fingers. Someone else commented on how well behaved they were, they weren't squirming or acting nervous at all. Toffee is pretty lazy and but Naydeen is very inquisitive and friendly, is it safe to continue taking them on small outings like this? I don't think I could ever make them true shoulder rats, but maybe just indoor shoulder rats? 


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## Rat Daddy

cammipooh, Fuzzy Rat was raised almost exclusively outdoors, She was born in April and we took her to the park or elsewhere every day, my wife was terribly rat phobic so indoor play when she was home was out of the question, when winter came we tried to free range her indoors, but she got bored and slashed all of the wires, sill we let her out as much as possible and all of the wires in my house are soldered and taped in several places.

Max was born in July and winter hit early in her life, the wife can tolerate rats better too, so Max spent over 20 hours a day free ranging the house all winter and basically lives in the store room... She doesn't cut wires and theft and random destruction is tolerable. Both rats were/are housebroken.

Fuzzy Rat needed to be the center of attention, she loved crowds and followed people around to meet them. She was very confident in wide open places and was the perfect traveling rat, indoors she got bored and destructive, Max is more reclusive, prefers quiet and dark places and enjoys solitude. She has excellent outdoor skills and doesn't panic, but despite skills similar to Fuzzy Rat her personality was developed over winter away from hoards of adoring humans so if left on her own outdoors she'll find somewhere dark and quiet to hang out or she will go right back to the car or the house after about 15 minutes. 

So, a great outdoor true shoulder rat doesn't necessarily mean she'll be a great indoor house safe rat and a great indoor rat might not be very good outdoors. Max is very good at both, Fuzzy Rat was great outdoors and not a very good indoor rat, by virtue of being a fire hazard.

Outdoors and indoors are very different skill sets and different personalities prefer one to the other, you really can't train a rat to be outdoors indoors and you can't train a rat to be house safe while outdoors with them.

ksaxton, 

Between the rats that should never be taken outdoors and Fuzzy Rat, that was most competent outdoors and traveling there are many shades of grey. At petsmart, we often did demonstrations for the staff and other customers by putting Fuzzy Rat on the floor and walking her around the store at heel. Usually we carry Max around the store. Not that Max will run away, but she doesn't like that many strange humans around her. Hopefully by the end of summer she will be more comfortable around crowds of strangers. 

The trick is to know and test your rats capabilities and limits. When you go to PetSmart, your greatest danger is actually crossing the busy parking lot. If your rat loses it's cool in traffic, bad things happen fast. Also, true shoulder rats have to be put down to potty, which we usually do in the parking lot before we go into the store to avoid accidents... This is risky business with a limited rat... And be very certain that if you are spending a day on the go with your rat, he or she will need to go potty at least a few times or you are going to be very embarrassed in some store.

Almost every rat has limits, a good handler knows how to avoid them. The more robust your shoulder rat is, the fewer limits and the safer you and they are. Finding a good safe site and training and testing there lets you expand and test limits and build both your confidence and your rat's competence without putting your rats at risk.

But to answer your question most directly, your rats are never "safe" outdoors. There's always some risk for you as the handler to manage. Successful shoulder ratting is a combination of the right rats, good training, your experience level and great risk management. It's when you start thinking you are safe that bad things happen. One day we let Fuzzy Rat go off to explore the forest near the lake on her own, she came running back to us and when we went to investigate, there was a huge female snapping turtle on her way back to the lake after laying her eggs... She wasn't interested in a rat snack but she was clearly a danger we didn't anticipate... So we set Fuzzy Rat loose in some tall grass where we could watch her better, and she picked up a dozen larval deer ticks another danger we didn't anticipate. So even with a rat that would never get lost or run off, there were hazards we missed. Larval ticks that have never fed on a deer don't usually carry lyme disease and are easy to pick off, but we now check our rats for ticks when we bring them home and we try to avoid areas that are tick infested in spring when larval ticks are abundant. To be honest that day both Fuzzy Rat and I were nursing a nasty hangover and we were both looking for somewhere quiet in the shade to take a nap, so carefree and careless was the plan for the day, and it almost went terribly sideways. So what you are doing is a well managed risk and likely to be completely successful. Whenever you come home with the same number of rats you left the house with, you and your rats "done good", when you come home one rat short, you've had a very bad day. One single screw up makes all the difference in the world.

So, it's great to be proud of your rats and your accomplishments. It's wonderful to give your rats a chance to explore the world and to develop your craft and your skills.... It's OK to use the terms "safer" or "safest" or even "reasonably safe" (even the safe site is only reasonably safe) but once you let the word "safe" creep into your vocabulary your going to get yourself in trouble. Confidence is good, trust is earned and success is a building block for further success, you should be very proud of your rats today! Just don't let the word "safe" creep into your vocabulary and get careless. Just a little tiny touch of healthy fear keeps you sharp and keeps your rats alive. Once you stop feeling that slightly disquieting anxiety in the back of your mind something really bad is about to happen... Fuzzy Rat was a supremely competent rat when it came to not getting herself killed and she corrected for some of our worst mistakes. But you can't always rely on your rats to be smarter than you are, so be careful, if you can't be careful, at least stay alert and you will keep the odds in your favor.

Best luck.


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## ksaxton

Thanks for your input, I don't think I could ever have true shoulder rats because I would be constantly terrified they would pick up some disease or parasite while outdoors. My rats have never attempted to jump from my shoulder and when I took them to the store they just wanted to lay down and observe, but you're right I can't let my guard down just because they may seem relaxed. 


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## Rat Daddy

That's great to hear, you've got my message and your rats will be much safer for you not adding safe to your vocabulary.... But remember, it's a process of teaching and testing... you work as safely as possible... Before we let Fuzzy Rat climb the tall trees, we let her climb the short ones. When she came back when she was called and didn't fall, the next tree was taller. When we knew trees weren't a danger, we let her walk in the woods... Max likes hanging out in trees way too much and for way too long, unless I've got hours to kill waiting for her to come back down on her own, trees are off limits. She won't fall and she won't get lost, but she will actually curl up on a branch and take a nap and when she goes to sleep she's out for a couple of hours and that's not a good idea if we have to be someplace after a quick stop at the playground. So for Fuzzy Rat any tree was fair game, for Max, it's shorter trees or any tree my daughter can climb. Even true shoulder rats have their limits which you would never see watching us... because we work within them, unless we are training a new skill and then the funniest things can and happen at the safe site. In the unforgettable words of my daughter... "Daddy this tree has thorns!" Yup, 40 acres of short trees and one miserable little tree with thorns what are the odds that a rat would find that one and run straight up the trunk...? Now we watch for trees with thorns, even small ones. Max was in no danger, but it was getting dark and dinner was waiting... and I vaguely recall my wife having something derogatory to say about me "letting" my daughter climb a thorn bush... and some kid asking his mom why the man was throwing pine cones at the little white squirrel... So lessons learned at the safe site translate into perfect performances in public places... Short ceder trees are good, tall thorny trees are bad. So when I send Max up a tree it's not the same trees Fuzzy Rat used to climb.... both rats love trees but as a smart rat handler I assess my risks and knows my shoulder rats capabilities and habits and adapt them to my schedule and the apparent risks... If there are hawks around and after dark when owls are out all trees are off limits. Safe is always a matter of degree... but if I didn't start out with short trees, Fuzzy Rat would have never seen the world from the tree tops and that would have been a shame.









You'll know when your rats hit their limits. For Fuzzy Rat a visit to a busy auto tire shop was her limit, the popping tires and air guns had her clutching to me the entire time there and on the ride home she hid under a jacket on the passenger seat for the whole ride home while her nerves calmed down... No she didn't panic... but the hissing of air, exploding tire sounds and air tools and compressors had her way past where she was comfortable, and it wasn't something I would put her through again. She liked fireworks and would chase the kids at the park right out in the open, I almost didn't think she had a limit, but I eventually found it and there was no mistaking it when we hit it. 

I might add that the fellow at the tire shop told me that my rat was much better behaved than the last rat someone brought in... I can only wonder what happened to that one. And no, I didn't ask... But your rats might be able to go to auto shops... you just work your way up to it and stop where your rats start feeling uncomfortable... you either get there or you don't, but either way you don't get your rat lost or killed along the way. Train and test...

As to diseases and parasites, wild rats and true shoulder rats tend to build an immunity to outdoor things.... Fuzzy Rat loved to eat stuff she found that people threw away, as disgusting as it was watching her fight off the ants for a snack, she never got sick from it... True shoulder rats should be kept away from indoor rats that are more like hothouse flowers, they don't have any immunity to the natural world and might get sick from exposure to a true shoulder rat.


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## ksaxton

At the pet store when the man reached over and scratched Naydeen on the head I didn't think about it, but after reading something on here about how you shouldn't touch other people's rats and then go and touch your own without cleaning yourself first, it sort of worries me that someone might transfer a disease to my girls by touching them. The man was buying small animal supplies and I think he had a rabbit, but you never know where other peoples hands have been. He didn't ask to pet them, he just reached in. Have you ever had to ask people not to touch your true shoulder rats? 


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## Rat Daddy

All of the time! We did mob scenes with Fuzzy Rat going from person to person, and we formed circles and she would run shoulder to hand to shoulder to hand and everybody took their turn being the bridge and at a convenience store in the mountains an entire motor cycle club took their turn meeting our rat, the biker girls started and the guys had to prove they weren't afraid of a little rat... We used to make kids stand in line... In total hundreds if not more people have handled our rats.

Other rat owners always creeped me out a little bit though. They would sneak up behind us and snatch Fuzzy Rat from my shoulder. As a fellow rat owner, you would know immediately that Fuzzy Rat was friendly, all you would have to do is offer her your hand and she would jump on. This is actually how I found out some of my acquaintances were rat owners. 

As to diseases, Fuzzy Rat got mites from another rat we adopted that was supposedly healthy and from a good home.... And we were on the way to the vet's to pick up Revolution when we stopped by a big box pet store and the girl who took care of the small animals snatched Fuzzy Rat from us and gave her a big hug... she was another former rat owner... Naturally I warned her that Fuzzy Rat had mites and that she should wash and change her shirt before handling any rodents in the store.... And I hope she did, but that's a pretty good example of how mites can get around... If she didn't and then went to clean the cages lots of people might have brought home mites.

But to be very honest, mites are the only real problem. Larval ticks are easy to pick off with tweezers and even mites are gone with one application of revolution. The pet shop and the employees there are actually your biggest risk.. and you are everyone else's biggest risk.

There was some kind of really stupid flu-like thing going around and my wife brought it home, everybody was sick for weeks, both rats and humans, we did a great job of infecting and reinfecting each other, but we all survived it... Fuzzy Rat was actually the first to recover. My daughter and I did antibiotics and my wife toughed it out... But that wasn't due to our rats going outdoors.

There are of course a few really nasty rat illness and rat borne illnesses out there... but your odds of catching one are very small. Vast wild rat populations live all over the world and most are extremely healthy. Rats are designed to be durable and develop superior immune systems. But shoulder rats live a comparably high risk lifestyle as compared to indoor rats... Keep in mind your shoulder rat has the same chance of getting killed in a car crash as your kids do... and you don't leave them at home....


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## rat_luver

Hello! 
I think I may have a true shoulder rat in training. I have been fostering rats for a while now (along with other small animals). About 5 months ago I was fostering a pair of baby male rats, and one of them, a black berkshire seemed special. They apparently were feeders, and someone bought them, and then couldn't keep them. He is very laid back and easygoing. I decided to adopt the pair, and have been working with training them ever since. I named the little boy bear. after the first few weeks he was indoor only. He loved to come with me everywhere around the house though. He would sit on my shoulder as I watched tv, or ate dinner.
I then started taking him outside to a park (which made me very nervous!). He has done great there. He loves to climb trees and eat the grass. He seems fine in open spaces, but sometimes will get frightened, and will run up my pant leg. 
I would love suggestions! I'm thinking about taking him out to the pet store tomorrow.


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## Rat Daddy

Basically, you have done your safe site training and Bear seems to have passed step one. A pet shop visit sounds like a pretty good first trip to a store. Basically park your car where you won't be crossing any busy roads or getting into parking lot traffic, cars kill rats. Be very careful about closing your car door, as car doors kill rats as rats have a way of diving through closing doors and getting squashed... Do not touch any of the animals in the store and then touch bear as pet shop animals might carry mites and ask employees that handle small animals in the store if they might wash their hands before and after handling Bear to prevent Bear making their animals sick or the other way around... (this is your call depending on how healthy the animals in the store are).

Remember, pet shops have the up side of being animal friendly, but the down side of being a good place for mites and germs to spread.. If you see that the animals there are sick, get out immediately. Mites are no big deal, you treat them with revolution, but it's still better to never get them.

It goes without saying to keep and eye on Bear for his stress level rising but also, practice keeping your eyes roving and your head swiveling.. look up for birds of prey as you get out of the car, identify any cars that are likely to start moving, observe where people are especially kids that might want to meet your rat... Watch for dogs that are off tether etc. There aren't really many dangers in a pet shop or parking lot, but it's good practice for when you go to your next place... always practice for the next stage in your training. 

Lastly, remember never to crowd people, keep your distance and let them come to you, rat phobics go to pet shops too...

Everything I'm mentioning will come very natural to you soon. You get out of the car, you look around and scan the sky... you won't even realize you are doing it... But one fine day, I got out of the car and when I looked up, I realized I was directly under the hawk's migratory path on the wrong day... the sky was swarming with hawks circling looking for food... I had looked up hundreds of times and never saw a threat, buy one day out of hundreds, my habit of looking up may have saved our rat. Don't feel silly, creating safety protocols that may not apply everywhere, it's the little mistakes that get rats killed or lost and it's the good habits you start to develop today that will keep your rat safe and alive. 

Best luck, enjoy your outing and most of all I hope you and Bear have lots of fun.


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## rat_luver

Thank you for the help!
Just got back from petstore. He did great! The person at the store was fascinated by how calm he was. The lady held him, and gave him a treat. He seemed to love it there. He wasn't to sure of a dog that came in though!
I was very nervous. As I walked through the parking lot, I found myself continually looking up in search of hawks.
The pet store is just a small local store. They don't have many animals there for sale. Mostly just supplies. Later this week I'm planning on bringing him to a larger pet store like petco or petsmart.


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## Rat Daddy

Great outing... one little surprise, the dog, but you handled it. That's what matters. You will always find new surprises to handle which you will do because you have everything else under control. I'm glad you are nervous for now, it will keep you sharp while you develop all of the good habits you will need later...

We all eventually get careless and slack off our vigilance over time, that's normal too, but if you have developed all of the good habits that you will need to keep Bear alive, when you are slacking off, you will still be 100 times as competent as a brand new shoulder rat handler.

Every outing Bear will become more comfortable and confident and you will become a better handler. Things will go wrong, but experience and quick thinking will save the day if you stay sharp.

There's a special kind of pride in sharing an adventure with a competent true shoulder rat. And it's more fun than anything else you will ever do with a rat. But never forget it's big risk - big reward..

Be safe and have fun!


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## Lare

I apologize for bringing back a topic that hasn't been used in nearly a month, I sincerely hope no one minds...

I brought my Milo home on the 31st of August, so at this point in time I've had him for 6 days. He's about 4-5 months old. From the minute I let him loose in the car, I was stunned at how he acted. He immediately came up to me, confident, and practically begged for a scritch. When he got that from me he would stroll over to my mom for some and then back to me. He explored the car calmly, unphased by any beeping outside or bumps in the road. When we parked at a store and my mom ran in, I stayed in the car with him. He watched people going by at the window and seemed like he wanted to go meet them - he can't get enough attention. Car doors slamming shut and kids screaming had nothing on him. We did a little over two hour immersion session and everything went absolutely ideal - we clicked in minutes - and I came out with a bonded little rat on my shoulder.

After two days of having him and letting him roam around my parents room and the living room (where he was utterly unabashed by our large dogs, the cats, and my siblings bickering loudly). If my family is in the room he will go up to each and every one of them to greet them with kisses and wanting to be cuddled and held by them. So after the two days I took the chance of taking him outside.

The area of our yard I took him is maybe just under half an acre. It's against the neighbor's house (the owner died over 15 years ago, her niece pops in maybe once every month to check out the house and make sure no pests are around) which has no holes he dart into there. There's a high brick wall dividing the area from the road on the right and on the left across some feet of grass and a the walkway is my house. The last side is relatively unarmed apart from some dense bushes and trees, unfortunately. In the middle of where we play there's one big, relatively short tree that Milo hasn't braved climbing yet, but he enjoys playing around the roots. The grass of course has been scanned carefully for any animal holes or mushrooms or anything else dangerous. But all in all, it's not the ideal safe site, but I've been keeping an eye out for one of those.

Right now he knows his name, come, and no; we're working on "shoulder, rat" now and Milo's gotten the hang of it mostly from an hours practice today. Taking him outside, I get him on my shoulder and walk towards our "safe site", and when he recognizes the familiar territory he comes down my shoulder and waits in my arms until I set him down and tell him to go play. He has his name down pat and is zooming to me the moment I tell him to "come", inside or out. He stays close to us outside (us being myself and my 11 year old sister), he doesn't wander more than a few feet away from us, but he's not frightened - he's digging little holes and chasing our hands around, popcorning through the grass. He'll tire for a few minutes, come to me and bliss out on my lap, bruxing away and taking a nap for a few minutes while I pet him. Overall, he's very comfortable outside and when my brother or mother come to visit us while we're out he trots over to great them and begs to be picked up and loved on. He's walking at heel now, a foot or so away and he gets distracted by a bug or some interesting smell here and there but when he hears me say his name or sees he's falling behind he does a few hops and catches right up.

Do you think he has the qualities of a shoulder rat? Or a rat worth training up to really become one, anyway. Besides being extraordinarily careful in our current "safe spot" and looking for a better one, are there any tips you might have to offer for Milo and I? 

Thank you so much for any pointers, and I again apologize for bumping up the topic.


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## Rat Daddy

There are rats that can be trained to become true shoulder rats and then there are a very very few that are practically born to be true shoulder rats. Folks like Mozart and my dad who never had a piano lesson and played the piano, just by observing someone else do it. No my dad didn't do anything with his gift, he'd occasionally play the piano or accordion at parties. But he never took a single lesson. One day he picked up a guitar a friend left over at my house ran his fingers over the finger board and started to play a simple song on one string hitting each note correctly after never having held a guitar before. Funny how some of us are born with gifts that we never use... 

But this is true of certain rats too. Max and Cloud became good true shoulder rats through training and handling. Max actually usually prefers to be indoors, Cloud doesn't mind either way, but Fuzzy Rat was born to be a true shoulder rat, she waited at the door for me to take her outside. She jumped into the lake and went swimming on her own, and chased kids around at the playground. It was who and what she was. The first time we took her outside at 3 weeks old she ran away and came back completely on her own 45 minutes later. She could smell foxes hundreds of yards away, had little fear of cats but would stay near us if they were around and she had a trick, likely something ultrasonic that would freeze a dog on the spot. I never saw another rat that could do that. And she could find her way home from over half a mile away. 

Being a true shoulder rat is actually harder in some ways than being a wild rat, because wild rats almost never come out into the open or deal with humans and other species of animal, other than to hide. 

There have been and are a few rats here that I would honestly call naturals. But they are perhaps one in a thousand or one in ten thousand rats. So you might be able to train one in fifty or one in a hundred rats to be true shoulder rats, but it's only a super select few that are actually born that way. Everything is special about them. I mean you can compare them to the Mozarts or the Einsteins, we all know they exist, but most of us never actually meet one. So you have to be darn lucky to adopt one.

From what you describe you just might have one of these extraordinary rats. In which case safe site training goes super fast. And in not time your out there doing things most rat owners would never even dream of doing with their rats. And very likely if Milo is one of these rats he should very quickly be understanding you and most likely you can understand him better than any other rat you have ever worked with. 

Now here's the problem, we all love our kids and our rats and we all think our rats and our kids are special, so you do have to test his abilities and take caution into account. He still has to learn how to cope with different and dangerous situations. Yes he will learn very fast, but he wasn't born knowing everything. So you still do safe site training, which he will blow through, then you do stores and parks and public places and night time outings and even fireworks shows.. but you still work from one stage to the next so you can test his ability as he builds his skill set. The nice thing is that if you screw up, he most likely won't and he's going to save his own bacon when you otherwise would have gotten a normal shoulder rat killed. So just because there are naturals, don't assume you have one until he proves it. And don't assume he knows more than he does... You still have to test as you go. 

Lastly naturals come with special problems... Fuzzy Rat loved to chase around with little children, she was amazingly good at not getting stepped on. She liked to run in ever smaller circles until the kids collided and fell into a pile... You have no idea how many times my heart actually stopped until I saw her pop out from under a pile of kids. She liked to explore on her own, so you wouldn't believe how many times she got away from us and disappeared only to turn up about an hour later exactly where she disappeared from, and yes you learn to act strangely calm about losing your rat when you know she's coming back, but inside it's a lot more stressful than it looks. And when your rat has no fear of water and knows she's a great swimmer, it's just a bit unnerving when she jumps into the lake and swims away from you to get someplace you don't want her to go. Or when she lets go of one of one of the top branches in a tall tree and starts preening herself while swaying in the breeze holding on only by her back feet. This just doesn't happen with normal rats, not even normal true shoulder rats. The can do so much more, you have to learn to deal with them like raising a gifted child, and it can be a little intimidating. They will push you beyond your comfort zone and 99% of the time they know exactly what they are doing so you will be standing there, mouth agape in amazement.....

Then there's the 1% of the time they will actually get themselves in trouble or killed. Rats don't understand about slamming car doors, they don't understand about people who are rat phobic and react badly to them, they don't understand that drivers can't stop for them or even see them and there are plenty of dangers in the modern world they might not be able to appreciate. Even when naturals can get themselves out of most of the trouble they get into there are limits. So when you work with a truly gifted rat you have to give them way more space to learn and explore than you would most any other rat, but you have to be extra vigilant to keep them from getting killed or hurt.

A naturally gifted rat can blow right through the simple stuff... it can protect itself when you screw up.. it's going to do and survive and enjoy things rats shouldn't be able to do... and you are going to get lazy and complacent and trust me that's when things will go wrong. Fuzzy Rat was so easy to work with and so skillful that we barely had to manager her which lead to way more close calls than I want to recount here. Most of the time she was brilliant and crafty and clever, sometimes she just got lucky. One day she came running out of the woods and started dashing back and forth nervously, so we followed her into the underbrush and she showed us a huge female snapping turtle she found coming back from laying it's eggs.. she was keeping a reasonable distance from it, and it wasn't likely to be looking for a snack on dry land but there was for sure some element of luck involved in bringing home our rat that weekend. Who looks for snapping turtles in the underbrush? I suppose anyone who has a rat that explores the underbrush on her own should.

So, just because Milo might be a naturally gifted true shoulder rat, don't be complacent, and do all of the steps listed here, keep your eyes out for predators and dangers and test as you go.... remember all rats have limits, they are still rats and not humans or dogs and they need you to protect them. 

I do believe you have a particularly gifted rat from what you describe, but you won't know for sure until you carefully test his abilities and keep him from getting killed... And if he doesn't turn out to be a natural, that's just fine too all rats are special.

Best luck and keep us posted on his progress.


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## catty-ratty

Anga DOES know her name. She apparently ignores me if she doesn't think it's necessary to listen! She is just too smart and enjoys going out too much for me to not bother finding out how far she can go.

I'm going into town tomorrow. I'm going to check out some possible safe sites.


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## catty-ratty

Two things happened today. Looking for opinions, input.

I took Anga out today to go to the park. We didn't make it to the park before it got too warm. But we did walk within 5 feet of someone mowing grass. She was fine about 20 ft away. Before getting closer, I put her under my shirt in case she freaked out. Granted, she was under my shirt, but she didn't even flinch. It was as if the lawn mower wasn't even there. At one place, I was pushing an empty grocery cart across a bumpy, gravel-y parking lot. REALLY LOUD. Again, it didn't bother her at all. People don't bother her. She's interested in new people. Heck, she posed for a picture today on my shoulder.

Before we went into a shop (where we've been before) I took her to a BIG open field far away from all traffic to potty before we went in. The last time we were in that shop, I failed to understand her when she was telling me she had to pee. The people at the shop really like her. When I put her down on the counter, she peed on it! Luckily, the guy she peed in front of had rats and wasn't bothered too much. Regardless, I didn't want that to happen again, thus the field/potty stop.

After we walked to the middle of the field, I put her down, treats in hand if I needed them. She checked out the area for a few minutes, not wandering more than a few feet away from me. She went to the bathroom and then scaled my jeans and shirt back to my shoulder. 

We stopped by the grocery store to get some things. First, we refilled water bottles to keep at home. (Well-water out here is disgusting!) The water fill stations are outside, close to the entrance to the store. At this point, she was VERY interested in what I was doing. She kept running out to the end of my arm to see what I was doing and watch the water pour into the bottles. I was having trouble keeping her on my shoulder and she wouldn't stay in my purse. She has never strayed away from my shoulder before when we have been out. Because she wouldn't stay put, I decided against going into the grocery store. 

Anga can be VERY hyper rat, very curious about EVERYTHING. I believe she's about 4 months old now and has calmed down considerably, but she still has a lot ADHD energy. She usually uses it up wresting with the cats and taunting the dogs. After she's done with them, she sits calmly with me, more or less, and has recently started napping on my lap by or spooning on my desk with Ben, my cat. 

I took her out making sure that we would be in public during the time of day she usually naps so she would be calmer.

My concern is that I shouldn't try to do too much outside stuff until she hopefully calms down even more. As long as she's not in her comfort zone, she sticks right with me at all times. But she veered away some when we were getting water. She didn't try to get off of me, but having her all over my hands was making things difficult. 

By the time we left the shop and stopped by the feed store, it got too warm to have her out, so we didn't go to the park. I don't have much time left to take her out before temperatures get too hot for her. Even early mornings can be pretty hot in Texas. I don't want to push her too fast. 

I'm really excited about Anga and anxious, but also cautious. Before I found out that a shoulder rat is not a common thing, I had already taken Anga out with me several times. So, in a way, I kinda' don't really understand what the big deal is about taking a rat out. After getting four more rats, I can see that Anga is clearly different than most rats. Today, someone remarked at how well trained she is. The thing is, I _haven't_ _really_ _trained_ her. She just does it naturally. When they took her out of the cage at the pet store, she went straight to my shoulder. I walked around the pet store with her that way. As soon as we got back to the car to leave, I took her out of the box. She again went to my shoulder and stayed there the rest of the day. She has ALWAYS liked sitting on my shoulder and walking around with me. I don't have a command for her. Either I pick her up and put her there, or she gets up on my shoulder herself. Because of this, training almost seems unnecessary. If I hadn't found this thread with all the warnings and stories of outings gone wrong, I wouldn't have slowed down at all. She would already have been out with me many, many times to any place where they wouldn't be likely to have major issues with a rat who stays on my shoulder.


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## Rat Daddy

There is absolutely no doubt that the best true shoulder rats are born special. They are different in ways that are hard to explain... Once you meet one, it's just obvious. But part of that specialness is an intrepid personality. They will go places and do things normal rats won't try.... Misty our current true shoulder rat wasn't born that kind of special, she's good because I put in lots of time and work into her and she will stay close to us or on us, preferably under my coat or shirt. Fuzzy Rat loved to run off and explore, yes, she always came back... but it could be unnerving not knowing where your rat is or what she was doing while you are waiting for her to come back... While Misty Rat is overly cautious, Fuzzy Rat was reckless. 

But it's all about working together with your rat to learn his or her abilities and tendencies and personality. Some rats are naturals... some learn as they go and build confidence over time and some wash out. Perhaps most wash out, although if you have a lot of handling and training experience you can help some make the grade that otherwise wouldn't.... But still there's nothing wrong with a rat that washes out at the safe site, you still bring him or her home... when a rat washes out in the real world... it's gone or dead... NO DO OVERS. 

I suppose it can be argued that a natural born true shoulder rat doesn't really need to train at the safe site, but it won't do him or her any harm... And even if your rat doesn't need it, you can gain invaluable experience there yourself in handling and predicting your rats behavior and understanding his or her capabilities... It's also a good place to get your head on a swivel and learn to watch for potential dangers and practice coping with them... And most of all it gives both you and your rat a chance to work together. 

Does a natural born shoulder rat need safe site experience? Maybe not, but if you are wrong and your rat isn't a natural or if you misread a situation due to inexperience you are about to have a very bad day. In shoulder ratting you never forget a very bad day... you spend the rest of your life with every second of it frozen in your memory and going over everything and anything you might have done differently.... And no matter how many good reasons you find for things having to happen the way they did, and how well you justify what you did or didn't do... you took your rat outside, into harms way... your rat is gone or dead... and it's your own danged fault... and you're going to have to live with that for a very long time. 

There's nothing safe about training a true shoulder rat. That said, there is nothing more fun than having a true shoulder rat. Some rats deserve to be true shoulder rats and their lives would be wasted in a cage. It's a double edge sword, you and your rat can have a great time and an exciting and rewarding life together... but you can't screw up... even once. Great risk, great reward... manage the risk wisely and reap the reward... or else...

On a sadder note our beloved true shoulder rat Cloudy Rat passed away yesterday... She was two years old and basically faded away due to old age. She was outside for a few minutes just a few days ago, but it was still too cold for her so we didn't go beyond the front steps and she asked to go back inside after sniffing around a bit. She was in my arms looking out the window when she expired. She was a fine rat and the third true shoulder rat to die safely indoors... She was loved and will be missed.









Today Misty Rat, our last true shoulder rat, has been promoted to our family rat and attended a club meeting with us... She's a bit shy and lacks the best eyesight, but she walked at heel and peed outside and sat through an hour long lecture and an auction with me... She poked her head out of the car window and surprised the toll taker, it was kind of funny... We hoped the trip would do her good, due to the loss of her Great Aunt Cloud and it seemed to pick up her spirits... She got cake at they club meeting and McDonalds on the ride home... but she's in her cage all alone now... which is again sad.

I'll post more about Cloudy Rat's life when I feel up to it. But I thought it was worthy of note here that she traveled with us and went outdoors and was a very fine true shoulder rat and our family rat and she successfully lived her life and died in the safety and sanctuary of her home... and that's the way every true shoulder rats story should end... peacefully and with dignity. 

True shoulder rats are very rare, but they aren't a myth... Those that die of old age or illness are perhaps even rarer... but in and among your animal friends... they become the legends you tell your grandchildren about.

Most people should never take their rats outside, but if you do... be careful and do it right. Start at a safe site, train, learn and test, in the end it's worth the extra effort.


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## raindear

Catty-ratty, I think Anga got hyper at the water station because she was curious about the new noises and the fact that you were moving differently. I wish the two of you many happy adventures in your future.


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## catty-ratty

Rat Daddy said:


> ... if you have a lot of handling and training experience you can help some make the grade that otherwise wouldn't....


This is the thing that gives me the most hesitation. Anga is the _first rat I've ever _had. When I rescued her from a feeder bin, my intention was to find her a good home. She charmed me before that could happen. At the time, I just assumed that all rats are like Anga. After I got a second rat, I could see she was different. After the 3rd rat, it became even more clear. 

After finding this forum and reading all the advise, reading about rat behavior and training, the general idea seems to be that rats are limited and not as capable as many other domesticated animals. I read somewhere that you can train a rat to respond to their name, but they wouldn't actually know that the word your using is a name. This was not my impression of rats when I got Anga. Because of my limited experience, I started to believe the things I read, especially when Anga quit responding to her name. But then I figured out she only responded when she felt like it. 

A few weeks ago, Anga began living outside the cage full time. I got 2 more rats for the two that were still staying in the cage. One of those two _might_ be like Anga. She goes to my shoulder the same way Anga does, but she doesn't seem to enjoy it as much. Now that I have five rats, I can't deny that Anga is just an oddball. 

Despite my lack of experience with training rats, there are a few reasons I'm willing to learn with and for Anga. 

*1- *The biggest reason is something I talked about in a thread when I was considering let Anga live outside the cage permanently. I would rather live a happier life in spite of risks that may mean I live a shorter life. I want be fulfilled, embracing life rather than miss out on it because of fear of what _might_ happen. I don't want to be on my death bed wishing I'd done those things anyway when I still had a lifetime ahead of me. I don't believe I should deny that opportunity to my pets. 

I trust that they will let me know what they want. I have many cats. Most of them go outside. Some of them pretty much only come back in to eat. Some of them wander off somewhere out in the country and come home once or twice a week. A few of them rarely leave the house. 

The first cat I had was an indoor cat most of her life. The last 4 years of her life were spent almost entirely outside. Those were her happiest years. It scared me to death letting her go. Despite living the first 10 years of life locked up in the house and having been declawed against my wishes (I was in high school), she still climbed trees, caught mice and birds. She was happy. I was willing to endure heart ache if it meant she was happier and lived a shorter life. I have since extended this choice to all of the animals that have found me over the years. 


*2*- I'm one of those weirdo's that have a natural ability to communicate with animals. I don't know why, I just can. I'm learning more and more what Anga is telling me. I respond to her in such a way as to let her know that I understand what she's communicating to me. I know when she's telling me to put her down so she can potty. I know when she's had enough outing time because she crawls under my shirt and goes to sleep. When she want attention, she annoys me by doing things I prefer she not do. She knows the difference between things that annoy me and things that are absolutely never okay to do. Chewing wires, gnawing on walls where it is possible, taking my food from me. If she wants my attention, she'll wander behind my computer or run across my keyboard to irritate me, she'll clean my nose or teeth. When I stop what ever I'm doing , and give her attention, she quits doing those things. She also follows me around the house, sits on my feet or climbs up my shoulder. 

*3*- Since etting Anga run free through out the house, I've been able to learn much more about her as a rat. In addition to learning how to communicate with her, I can plainly see that she would rather play with the cats and dogs than the other rats. She needs to be challenged and live a more exciting life than the other rats. How can I deny that to her? 

*4*- So far, she seems to understand when I do something for her safety. She leaves the electrical cords alone. Last weekend, my husband was working on the lawn mower. I don't know how he did it, but gasoline got spilled in the living room. For her safety, I put Anga in the cage in the back of the house with an air purifier until the odors cleared out. Normally, if I put her in the cage, she throws a fit by chewing on any part of the cage where the door is. I know she's telling me she not to keep her in their. Last weekend, she went in calmly and patiently waited to come back out.

I am always careful about making spur of the moment decisions. I didn't have a lot of time to consider getting a rat when I saw her. It wasn't as if I could take a week or two to thinking on it. She might have been dinner before I came back. When I took her out of that feed bin, I knew that I might not be able to find a home for her. I was prepared to take care of her if that didn't happen. For me, part of taking care of her means giving her the life she wants and needs to live, even if it means I'm risking my own emotional safety by letting her be the rat she wants and was born to be.

All but one of the other 4 rats are also living outside the cage. I've learned more about them as well. Except for Pebbles, the youngest who's still mostly in the cage, I'm pretty sure the others have no interest in going anywhere or hanging out with me all day in my studio. They mostly sleep during the day, coming out at night to play with me before I go to sleep. Those rats I would never take outside.

I won't deny that it's very exciting to take a rat out with me. But in the end, I do it for Anga, not me. It would be selfish of me to push her into doing something she's not comfortable doing. 

Some of my cats like to go hiking with me. When I go for walks they come with me. The others stay at home. They don't need a leash. Sometimes they stay close by or chase the dogs. Sometimes, they wander off exploring the woods. It's unnerving in the country! They catch up with me later. 

Sometimes they wander off into the country on their own and never come back at all. It's hard when they don't come back. I'll be anxious for weeks at a time. Finally, enough time will pass and I know that they either decided to go feral, (which I _do know_ has happened before) or something got them. Either way, they got the life they wanted. No one can tell me that they were denied a good life. Maybe not safest, physically, but emotionally, mentally, they had the best life. 

I want that for my rats as well.


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## catty-ratty

raindear said:


> Catty-ratty, I think Anga got hyper at the water station because she was curious about the new noises and the fact that you were moving differently. I wish the two of you many happy adventures in your future.


I think you're right. Now you mention it, she does the same thing at home sometimes. She's especially interested when I'm making coffee, actually a latte. Grinding beans, tamping, steaming, pouring.......... But I have to teach her not to do these things when we are out. It might freak other people out if they think I have a rat that might jump off of me and onto them! So far, she's never tried to leave me. But I need to be reasonably sure she won't, especially if I try to take her into a grocery store!


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## catty-ratty

Something I forgot to mention that I'm glad about.

Only one time has an Anga ever been frightened. It was the sound of many streamers of plastic flags on a windy day. It was loud, but not as loud as the lawn mower. Anga scrambled under my shirt when that happened. After we got back to the car, she was fine after a few moments. 

I know she sees me as part of her pack because she marks me. I believe she sees me as safety or protector. When she's tired of playing with the dogs or cats but they won't leave her alone, she usually comes to me rather than wherever it is that she sleeps. When I've had to be extra stern with her about something that is absolutely never okay, she comes over and hovers under me, sulking. Probably because I always praise her with lots of love and tell her how good she is for not doing that thing.


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## Rat Daddy

Certain noises really freak rats out... hissing noises like air tools and air brakes on trucks... it's not always the volume, but the tone or pitch of the noise that can give you trouble. Tire shops are awful places to take your shoulder rat... I took Fuzzy Rat to one once and she curled into a ball and didn't open up until we got home half an hour later... no she didn't panic, but she was stressed beyond any thing I had ever seen with her...

And the guy there said "boy she's doing a lot better than the last rat someone brought in..." I didn't dare ask what happened to that one. Just stay away from auto repair places and where compressed air and air tools are used.

And I might add that Fuzzy Rat actually enjoyed fireworks...


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## catty-ratty

I've been testing her with different sounds at varying pitches and degrees of volume. What she usaully does is run away about 4 or 5 feet, and then come back to investigate. The other day I was twisting bubble wrapping, the kind with quarter size bubbles and make lots of loud popping sounds. Most noises don't seem to scare her much. The flag things scared, but she was no where near a state of shock, and was fine a few minutes later.

But a couple of nights ago, she was sitting on my desk looking out the bay window. It was completely dark out, no moon, nothing. But she could see something out there that had her very alarmed. Then my cats also noticed it. The fur on their backs raised and Anga jumped in my lap to hide. That's the only time she's ever been scared of something. I have no idea what she saw. Could have been anything out here deep in the country. Interestingly, the dogs never started barking. 


I had posted a question about shoulder rats in a different thread. I'm guessing you never saw it? 

I can't remember what the question was, but I it had something to do with how I communicate with Anga. I hadn't realized that I've been communicating effectively with Anga nearly since day one. But, I don't use words to get her to come to me or go somewhere. She learned almost as soon as I got her to go where ever I'm snapping my fingers. That will work without fail, no matter where I want her to go, even if she's distracted by something. She'll come running up my jeans to my shoulder. But if we are out somewhere, I'm not sure she would hear my fingers if we were in a very loud environment.

I'll have to look up that thread to find out what my question was. I think I need to recondition her to come to me with out fail with a word or verbal sound.


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## RatAtat2693

Rat Daddy said:


> Certain noises really freak rats out... hissing noises like air tools and air brakes on trucks... it's not always the volume, but the tone or pitch of the noise that can give you trouble...


Glad someone else noticed this. I actually avoid names with the "sss" and "ch" sounds in them for the more skittish rats. 

I'm currently looking at a safe site near me. It's an island in the middle of a lake. I was just concerned because, seeing as it's Vermont, you don't really have open spaces. So it's basically trees for as far as the eye can see. Brute has some potential for at least limited shouldering. He's a bit old for it, but definitely bonded. 

Also, anyone know how well they can swim?


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## Rat Daddy

Associate that sound with a word or better yet unique phrase... rats don't understand that two words can have two meanings... So a phrase like come to momma is better than just come... but testing is critical in working with rats outdoors, you always have to be watching and testing. Almost every rat has some weakness... and so does every rat trainer. With practice you and your rat partner will make up for each other's weaknesses... and build on each other's strengths... You never want to be surprised when working outdoors with a shoulder rat, you want everything to be predictable. You want to know exactly what she will do and when and be two steps ahead in your mind... like dancing.

Now... there's no way this is actually ever going to happen. This is a pipe dream and a theory because no matter how hard you try something always goes wrong or something unpredictable comes up... and you have to think fast on your feet... but because you already have 99% of things under control that 1% freak event is something you can devote your entire attention to solving.. In other words, you don't ever want to be chasing your rat across a field of snakes with wolves nipping at your heals and raptors swooping down on her... you can deal with snakes, wolves and raptors one at a time, so if you have the wolves and raptors under control, the snakes are something you are likely to handle... It's when multiple new problems turn up at once that you wind up in trouble.

When done properly with a great shoulder rat... it looks natural, like the rat is an extension of yourself. People will see you and it will look absolutely normal to them. They aren't likely to be impressed because it looks so easy, of course you know how much you are concentrating on at once and how much practice it took to make everything look so easy... it even starts to feel easy with practice...

If you mistake a cue or get distracted, you look perfectly ridiculous chasing your rat around the parking lot or trying to convince it to come down from that tree.


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## catty-ratty

RatAtat2693 said:


> Also, anyone know how well they can swim?


Yes, they are excellent swimmers. I know because YouTube said so. ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t2VPBF6Kp4


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## catty-ratty

I don't know what happened, but I can't tell if my reply was posted. I apologize if it's on here twice. 



Rat Daddy said:


> Associate that sound with a word or better yet unique phrase....


To retrain her, should I say the word first and then snap my fingers to change the cue?

This is how I taught her to come to me when I snap my fingers...

When she was still living in the cage, I would put treat a somewhere on the cage where she would have to climb the bars to get it. To show her where it was, I would get her attention my snapping my fingers. First, right in front of her, moving my hand closer to the the spot where the treat was located. Eventually, I just snapped my fingers where ever I wanted her to go. When I let her out for free time on my bed, I would snap my fingers for her to come to me and then give her a treat. It was after letting her free range that I realized that if I snap my fingers, she'll come running, if she can hear me. But it doesn't work if she's not near enough to hear me snapping my fingers. 

Everything I've taught is with hand gestures and snapping my fingers. I say a word, but I really think she understands a hand gesture better than a verbal cue. But then using my hands for signals is mostly how I've trained her. The dogs cats are the same way, I make a hand motion for them sit or stay. 

Can you tell that I'm one of those people can't talk if you tie my hands behind my back? I've actually tried to talk holding my hands behind my back and I can't believe how hard it is! ;D LOL

As it is now, if I so much as get the jar of treats, she comes running when she hears the sound of the lid opening, if she can hear it. 

I've seen videos on YouTube of people showing the tricks they've taught their rats. In all of those videos, they put a pile of treats within reach on the ground. I can't _believe _people can just put a pile of treats on the ground without their rat seeing where the treats are and then make a B-line to them! I would _never_ get away with putting a pile of treats while train her. She knows where the treats are, ALWAYS. Whether I put them somewhere she can't get to them, like a bar stool she can't climb, if I'm holding some in my hand, if some is in my shirt, anywhere! Once she knows where they are, she focuses on getting to that place! If I have them in my hand or shirt, she climbs ME to where I have them. It's impossible to hide them from her! 


I think I just thought of something, prepare the entire house with treats in random places, then find her and retrain her that way? Think that would work? Other ideas? And how would I train her to get on my shoulder without pointing or putting my hand near my shoulder? That's how I do it now. 

I guess the most important thing to know is if I should use a verbal cue before or after I click my fingers to re-associate 'come' with a verbal cue without snapping fingers.


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## catty-ratty

And, how can I teach her to stay put on my shoulder?


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## RatAtat2693

catty-ratty said:


> ...I can't _believe _people can just put a pile of treats on the ground without their rat seeing where the treats are and then make a B-line to them! I would _never_ get away with putting a pile of treats while train her...


If I stick a whole slice of apple directly beside Shamus, it will take him no less than ten minutes to find the thing.

He's sooooo sweet, but mostly at the cost of not being very bright.


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## catty-ratty

RatAtat2693 said:


> He's sooooo sweet, but mostly at the cost of not being very bright.


Awe! Poor Shamus! Being bright isn't everything!


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## Rat Daddy

To address a few things in random order...

First some rats get hand signals better than words. This is normal for some rats... understanding that human sounds have meaning isn't something rats are born knowing.. On the other hand rats signal each other using both sounds and gestures... rats are always watching us for sight cues and some pick up on them better than words. If I'm typing on my keyboard, Misty just assumes it means for her to get lost. She also gets hand signals very well, and prefers them to words. Fuzzy Rat learned many words. If I said.... "Food is in your cage" She would bolt back to her cage right away... She understood the words food and cage and knew that if strung together she had someplace to be. Associate words with your physical commands, pretty much by doing them together... I don't train with treats, so that part is your call... I don't always have treats when I'm outdoors, so I don't like to rely on them.

As to smelling... some rats are super smellers, while some rats aren't. Fuzzy Rat was a super smeller, she could smell a cup cake from the other end of the house and come running, but when she got too close she couldn't find it and had to run a search pattern around my desk until she tripped across it. Amelia couldn't smell treats at a distance, but when she was close, like on my desk... she would target the treat by smell and go to it like an arrow to it's mark. Cloud on the other hand never went looking for treats, if she smelled something yummy she came to me and attacked me until I gave her some goodies... She figured I was the source of all yummies so why bother to search for them elsewhere... But if you left a snickers bar unattended, she would eventually go after it on her own... and she could smell it from a distance.

Now Misty is really odd... she won't go after any food or treats unless I'm holding them... I can leave a snickers bar on the counter, and she'll leave it alone, until I offer it to her... that's actually pretty weird. There's been a bag of popcorn on the counter for a month and Misty hasn't touched it.. Fuzzy Rat would have demolished it in a matter of minutes.

I don't know of some rats don't know how to use their sense of smell or if some rats just have a keener sense of smell... or perhaps both... But yes, it was funny to watch Fuzzy Rat come running from the other room to within a foot of her treat and then not be able to find it without working a search grid...

As to being slow... For the most part, we always underestimated Cloud, she was super fluffy and sweet and ditzy... and as lazy as any rat can get, but she never missed dinner and when she always got what she wanted, mostly by getting her humans to get it for her. She was actually very manipulative and crafty... Kind of like the really cute girl that gets you to fix her car for free by standing in front of it looking helpless in short shorts and a halter top... Trust me, I'm a guy and we're not all stupid, which doesn't mean I haven't fixed a few damsel's cars along the way... it's kind of a genetic predisposition even if I do know better. 

Rats learn different things, and they have different personalities... and most of all they each figure out how to translate human into rat and rat into human differently. No two rats are alike... Fuzzy Rat learned lots of words, Misty likes hand signals and watches for signs, our part wild rat would hide in the shadows and study us for hours and watch our eyes so she could slink around unnoticed Cloud was a lazy rat that got her way by playing helpless... And Max... she was easily offended and did what she pleased no matter how it upset her humans... If I wasn't screaming at her at the top of my lungs, I couldn't possibly be serious. Amelia was always eager to please... and our part wild rat did commands just like a dog... 

The toilet bowl thing was staged... This wasn't...

https://vid.me/3edL

And yes Fuzzy Rat did jump into the water and swim out to my daughter on her own. But the swimming thing only lasted about a year, by her second summer, she didn't jump into the water on her own any more and when she got dragged in, she would usually swim straight to shore. Whenever she went swimming or got too cold, she would drip pee constantly for a few days... Never figured it out, but it always went away on it's own. Max never liked the water, a few minutes in the lake... after being dragged in and she was digging sand dens under the life guard chair.


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## Rat Daddy

I once tried to hide treats all around the house with Fuzzy Rat and Amelia. I sat them on the steps while I hid the treats around the hallway... Fuzzy Rat watched intently and when I sent them off to get their treats, she went and recovered and ate each one in the precise order I hid it.... leaving nothing for Amelia who didn't catch on quickly enough...So I tried again, this time putting most of the treats up higher where climbing would be required... Fuzzy Rat went after all of the low hanging fruit and then stopped. Amelia on the other hand realized what the scavenger hunt was about this time... She climbed up and got all of the treats I had hidden up high and then carried them back and hid them under the radiator... where Fuzzy Rat was waiting for them and pouncing on them the moment Amelia went after the next one... When Amelia had finished recovering all of the treats and went to eat them all she found was Fuzzy Rat preening herself looking very satisfied... she then came up to me looking confused, like I had stolen all of her goodies... 

Amelia was a very smart rat and a good climber, but Fuzzy Rat had excellent eyesight and and the ability to understand both humans and other rats in order to predict and profit from their behaviors.

Likewise, you are always trying to predict your shoulder rat's next move as it is trying to predict yours.... How smooth your performance is depends on how well you understand each other.


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## catty-ratty

Just for the record, I use the treat as a catalyst for Anga to understand what I tell her, and then wean off slowly, giving lots of praise instead. Every now and then I still give her a treat. 

As far as treats go, I knew from the beginning that I shouldn't rely on them. But I'm not going to pass up any short cuts either! 

I'm pretty sure Anga _sees _where I reach for the treats and goes where my hand is, reaching for the closed jar of treats. She knows what the treat jar looks like. Even the empty ones that look just like it, but have never had anything inside them! She even saw something outside the window that I didn't notice at all. I couldn't see anything where she was looking, but the cats could and whatever it was, the cats didn't like it at all.

If I have eaten something tasty, she can smell it on my breath from the floor. She can smell chocolate candy from miles away. IDK, I think I'm just blessed to have her! And I really hate to say this, but she may have ruined me just a little bit for other rats!


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## Rat Daddy

True shoulder rats see more and do more than indoor rats. They know and understand more... to some degree they become TSR's because they are smarter and more competent, then they become smarter and more competent because they are TSR's Amelia spent the first 7 months of her life languishing in a cage... Fuzzy Rat had hundreds of adventures under her belt by that time, had two previous roommates and had hundreds of human friends and acquaintances. 

I was working a little bit with Bunny today, she's been in a cage all of her life and it's like she's discovering the world by exploring my bedroom... she knocked over her first cup today and dashed off in terror because it moved on it's own. She literally walks off stuff because she doesn't get falling yet... most likely her cage didn't have any levels. It's so strange to work with a rat that doesn't know anything... She's almost full grown and she has 7 pups, but mostly her mind is a blank slate... It's hard to imagine the transformation she is going to have to go through from here to there.... 

So yes... Anga is going to be pulling away from your other rats like a jet from a turtle on the tarmac. It's not their fault, most likely they can learn, but as your TSR Anga will learn more faster.


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## catty-ratty

Rat Daddy said:


> The toilet bowl thing was staged... This wasn't...
> 
> https://vid.me/3edL


Um,.....excuse me! You're not implying that YouTube and Wikipedia aren't reliable sources of information are you?

I'll have you know that I got my doctorates of B***S*** from a prestigious university in Atlantis!


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## Rat Daddy

Even Fuzzy Rat would not swim somewhere unless she saw her objective; the raft, a human or shore... she wasn't about to swim out to sea and drown.

A rat may have fallen into a toilet looking for water or someone might have flushed one... but for the rest of the rats in the world, they aren't too likely to swim down a pipe full of standing water.

It is possible to sky dive without a parachute and survive. A friend's husband was airborne and survived a parachute jump when his parachute failed to open.. but it's never likely to ever become a competitive sport. Where most metals are awarded posthumously. So can rats swim up a toilet, sure... will one... not very likely.

But, yes... rats can swim.


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## catty-ratty

Rat Daddy said:


> But, yes... rats can swim.


You do realize I'm not being serious don't you?


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## RatAtat2693

catty-ratty said:


> Rat Daddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, yes... rats can swim.
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize I'm not being serious don't you?
Click to expand...

You mean there isn't a University of Atlantis? 

*dreams come crashing down* -runs in corner and cries-


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## Ratologist

I hope it's ok to bring this thread back to life. I am *so* fascinated. ...but I will begin by saying we just got a pair of rats for the first time in 8 years. So, I'm kind of starting over again and NOT AT ALL interested in taking my rats out of the house. 

That said, I believe I have a rat on my hands who has the potential to be a shoulder rat, though at 10 weeks old she's not very good at sitting still. Her name is Sonnet, and she is fearless, endlessly social, loves to climb, and wants nothing more than to be outside her cage every waking moment. She follows on our heels all over the kitchen (the rat-safe room in our house) and has been climbing straight up to our shoulders in order to stick her nose out and have a sniff around. She likes getting wet. She likes meeting new people. She hangs from the bars of her cage and begs whenever she's awake and we're not letting her out. She knows her name, will sit on my hand, and mostly comes when called. She feels very safe and comfortable in our house, though, and when she's too busy sniffing something else, she ignores me. 

I don't know if she'd listen under more stressful circumstances, though I did have an interesting experience with her just the other day. She found one small place where she could stick her nose though up under our cabinets, and I suddenly wasn't sure if it was a place where she could disappear between the wall and the cabinet (hard to explain, but I've since checked the hole, and it isn't big enough for her to fit). I got scared, slapped the floor, and called her name really loud. She came running and climbed in my lap and licked my hands. I was completely surprised. 

So, the reason I'm posting is because I'm wondering what ought to be done with such smart, curious rat if I'm not willing to take her out of the house? I almost feel bad. She seems so desperate to DO SOMETHING all the time. She is not a chewer. She kind of likes tunnels. We let her out as often as possible to roam the kitchen. We give her things to dig in and climb. Why do I feel sorry for her then? She has a sister...and a running wheel, hammock, igloo, tunnels, chew toys. She can't seem to get enough. 

As another interesting side note, her sister, Haiku, is suddenly taking notice. She climbed onto my shoulder for the first time EVER yesterday. Previously she's been content to climb into our laps, take treats, explore around the floors in the kitchen or on the table (if she has access to climbing back into her house), and go back home to sleep. She also knows her name but won't sit on my hand for anything. She's more cautious. She trusts us but isn't interested in others. She isn't driven by curiosity. I've said from the beginning (we got them at 4 weeks) that I don't think she can see as well, and that makes her more skittish. 

So...there's that.


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## Rattielover965

How long do you take her out of the cage each day?


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## Ratologist

Hours! I homeschool my daughter, and we do the majority of our work in the kitchen. We let her roam a lot of the time we're in the kitchen.


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