# First introduction went terrible!



## kriminologie (Mar 16, 2012)

Have you guys had luck introducing a new rat to a pair, when blood is drawn on the first meeting? Introducing my newest rat Clark to Rem and Roux went okay for about five minutes. Clark got bitten twice (back and belly) before I scooped him out of the bathtub. He seems pretty unperturbed by the situation, but of course I feel terrible. 

I purposely got a third rat hoping to unbalance the power situation. Sometimes Rem is a little unrelenting in his dominance of Roux (humping, grooming) but they have never drawn blood. Rem and Roux don't play or snuggle together, but coexist peacefully enough. Now I'm wondering how to structure the rats so no one is lonely. 

I have a feeling Roux and Clark would coexist well. I am hesitant to try to introduce Clark to Rem again -- I mean, I was literally a foot away, and look what happened. However, I don't want Rem to be lonely, nor do I want solitary life to make him sad or aggressive.

So basically I have two rats who live together but not in the happy rainbow-making way I wish they would, and a single rat I need to find a cagemate for, or switch my rats around.

What do you guys suggest? 

For reference, I know that Roux is about 9 months old. Rem is half that size, although not a baby, but still growing, nowhere near adult rat size. Clark is the same size as Rem, perhaps slightly smaller. Rem isnparticular is very sweet with me, tamed very very quickly.

ETA: I rubbed all three rats with vanilla extract and placed them in a dry bathtub for the first introduction.


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## JessyGene (Feb 27, 2012)

I've heard that an introduction phase can take weeks: First just placing there cages side by side so they can smell each other for a while. Then letting them play in eachothers cages (with the resident rat not in there), and then introducing them in a neutral place (like your bathtub). When you actually do the introductions in the bathtub I have heard that putting out some tuna or other treat is a good way to distract them and keep them busy and make it more fun. 
So maybe try starting from the beginning again, and taking it slow. If you can get the intro in the bathtub to go well then you should clean their cage really well and rearrange it before housing them all together so that your original rats don't get territorial. 

However, I've never introduced rats so this is all just speculative. Perhaps someone with more experience can help you. 
Good luck


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## kriminologie (Mar 16, 2012)

I had some treats in the bathtub, but perhaps they were not enticing enough. Maybe because I'm new to rats that I didn't expect violence so quickly. I spent about two weeks introducing Rem and Roux this way so I think I expected the same behaviors to occur. Naive I know!


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## RatzRUs (Feb 5, 2012)

Did you put vanilla extract on them too mask the scent?


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

I had some issues with my rats, but not when out of the cage. My group was an established pair (two and a half year old male, year and a half old spayed female) and two young males, under 6 months old. The young males were the newcomers. While on my bed, they all got along, and were friends, but once in the cage, my eldest male attacked the new babies, which riled the female up so she attacked too. I ended up switching, and confining the two original rats in a small cage for a couple of weeks, while the babies took over the main cage. After that, intros went smoothly.

Blood was drawn in that case, originally.


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## CarrieD (Nov 20, 2011)

If Rem is your problem child, you might consider a neuter. I'm no fan of unessesary surgery, but if he's aggressive enough that there's no cuddling or snuggling even with his established cage mate, I might give it some thought.


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## kriminologie (Mar 16, 2012)

They will sleep in the same area -- for instance, one in the igloo, one on top of it -- and they love being stroked, so if I do that to them simultaneously, they will pass out with Rem on top, then move away when I stop. I keep looking for other signs of aggression -- I check Roux every day for scabs or scrapes (none so far), and when Rem is being dominant, his fur is never up, and neither is Roux's. But like I said, I don't want to commit either of them to a life of just tolerating their cagemate.


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## kriminologie (Mar 16, 2012)

I think I should also add that I got Roux (the submissive) from a previous owner who had him caged with a rat who bothered him. She said the other rat in the cage was very shy, and would always try to burrow under Roux's backside, and he would get irritated and bite him, and drew blood. (She didn't separate them!) For this reason I was sure Roux would be a problem if there was one. I don't know if this makes him unbecoming to cuddling or playing. The size of the cage was not nearly big enough for Roux, much less a second rat.


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## CarrieD (Nov 20, 2011)

I don't blame you a bit. A life of just tolerating a cage mate is not much of a life - or at least could be better. If it's hormonal aggression, it will get worse and you'll know for sure what to do. At this point, though, I think I'd slow it down for intros and try things like swapping out bedding and hammocks, and switching cages now and then. Keep the cages close, but not so close they can reach each other through the bars, and keep your eyes open. Could be it will just take time, and maybe even more time now it got nasty and blood was drawn. I might even try swapping Roux between the two here and there if he gets along with both - but watch close that Rem doesn't get aggressive with him if he comes home smelling like Clark.


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## CarrieD (Nov 20, 2011)

kriminologie said:


> I think I should also add that I got Roux (the submissive) from a previous owner who had him caged with a rat who bothered him. She said the other rat in the cage was very shy, and would always try to burrow under Roux's backside, and he would get irritated and bite him, and drew blood. (She didn't separate them!) For this reason I was sure Roux would be a problem if there was one. I don't know if this makes him unbecoming to cuddling or playing. The size of the cage was not nearly big enough for Roux, much less a second rat.


I didn't see this before my last post - how long have you had Roux and Rem? Have they had time to get used to you and the new larger cage?


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## kriminologie (Mar 16, 2012)

I believe I've had Rem for two months and Roux for 1.5 months (and Clark for three weeks). I had Rem for two weeks before I got Roux and then spent two weeks introducing them ... they've been in the cage together 24/7 for three weeks? Rem started (of his own accord) riding my shoulder about four days in. I can pick both up with no problem, never been nipped, and they don't shy away from me. I hear what I assume is bruxing when I hold them or give treats.


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## kriminologie (Mar 16, 2012)

I think I caught Rem and Butters (formerly known as Roux) quasi-snuggling today. In the litter box of all places.


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## petratts (Feb 14, 2012)

hey i am not a rat expert, but you may want to try and introduce them in a larger area then a bath tub. that way if one rat is being mean the other rat can run away. in the wild rats dont really fight they run away when one gets mad.


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## CarrieD (Nov 20, 2011)

kriminologie said:


> I think I caught Rem and Butters (formerly known as Roux) quasi-snuggling today. In the litter box of all places.


LOL! There is hope!


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## kriminologie (Mar 16, 2012)

Remrem and Butters are sleeping together right now. Not, of course, in any of their comfy boxes, igloos, hammocks or pods -- but on top of a half a plastic shopping bag Butters pulled into the cage.

I may have fudged the quarantine time from 3 weeks to 2 weeks, but Clark is also happy with a cagemate -- a large male (looks about 6-7 months, full grown?) who is also black and white. His name is Bilbo and they got along famously the instant they met.

I feel much better about the arrangements, and about investing in a Critter Nation cage, now that I have two successful pairs. For the time being, at least!


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