# Daenerys the biter- an experiment



## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

I wanted to share my little story about Daenerys. 










Don't let that adorable face fool you, she is an evil little thing lol!

I got Dany as a little baby from a pet store. She was all alone in the tank. She was very young & tiny. I fell in love with her color. She was so beautiful! She was quite a fearful little thing though. 
Dany did not appreciate being touched or handled. She wasn't bitey but she would become extremely stressed at even the thought of being touched. 

Within days of getting Dany i also took in a rescue who was a known biter, Cersei. She was around the same age and even the same color as Dany! It was fate lol.
Cersei seriously had some issues. I'm not sure but she was seriously like the worst case of fearfulness I could even imagine. She has never bitten me though.

Anyways the two girls bonded right away. While all of my other girls would be out playing everyday, they would not leave the cage. They wouldn't even leave the box they were sleeping in! 

I worked very slowly with them both. Dany came around much quicker. She began coming out to play and for treats. Cersei took forever. I still can not hold Cersei because the stress is so high. I think she suffered some trauma, her entire behavior is so strange. She is the oddest rat. These days she comes out to play like everyone else daily, which makes me happy. I have her trained to come to me and climb inside of a octopus bed when it is time to go back to her cage. It is far less stressful for her  She actually even comes to get food from me now. It actually makes me cry to see how far she has come. She will never be a cuddly rat lol but she gets to live a happy nonstressed life now atleast  

But this story is really about Dany. Even though Dany has come around quite alot. I have a major very strange problem with her.... she is a biter. 
This is not your average biting problem though. Dany is not aggressive at all. Very high strung but not aggressive. 
No she bites for attention!

In her silly little head she has come to the conclusion that the best way to get my attention and a treat is to bite me. 
I've talked with a few others and we agree that it really has become a game for her now. On accident I was rewarding her by giving her attention or worse treats. I created a monster  oops.

Now it isn't really a hard bite but it is really scary. I am not in any way exaggerating the insanity here... the very moment she sees me she will rush to me and bite. Then it becomes a game of her running around the room and jumping out at me. She does not stop at all. I always have to wear shoes in the rat room. Honestly it is hard to sit and enjoy my rats when I have to keep an eye on her the entire time.

I tried every trick I could think of to end this. i got advice from everyone I know. Nothing worked. 


But then I had an idea!

My rat room's door is like always open but in front of the door it is blocked off half way. When Dany wanted attention/treats she would jump at the gate until I came. She is very smart & seriously has a treat problem lol
But I thought maybe I could try and shift her mindset into something productive by teaching her some tricks.

(here is an old video, that shows off Dany & my door and her begging self. Ignore my very obnoxious voice lol: https://youtu.be/wfm2FAb5QQs )

I stand outside the door (in safety lol) and call her to the door I have her wait & learn spin so far. She is picking it up really well!

My goal (hope lol) is to have her come to me and instead of biting, to spin. 

Will it work? I hope so lol

*I will update this thread with the progress!! And add a video soon.*

I am really pretty excited about this.


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

Good luck with this. It will be interesting to watch.


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## Tabitha&Tobermori (Mar 14, 2016)

Hope it works!


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## 2ratshack (Sep 13, 2014)

Off topic, but she looks so similar to my rat Percy!


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

First video!
https://youtu.be/MbBCi0eexso

So we have been working on it some and she has it down easily  I am now trying to get her to spin without me doing the hand signal, she is almost there. And then doing it without the command.

She got slightly distracted in the video by Sansa running over lol


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I stop bad behaviors by basically being myself.... honest and to the point, when my rats do something stupid, I yell at them... it makes me feel better and they seem to understand, my daughter would just give them a little bop and they got it too.... My daughter was 5 years old so it wasn't a hard bop, but it was impressive how fast the rats got it... Then I learned that sometimes I didn't even have to yell... I'd just call my daughter or tell the rats I was going to call her if they didn't stop... and surprisingly that even worked sometimes. 

Rats really are smart, if they think they can push you around for attention or treats they will. As soon as they understand that something backfires they stop it quickly....

It took a bit of shouting and a few small bops, but our rat Misty doesn't kill my plants or kill my answering machine anymore... She's a dream rat around the house and lives free range most of the time. And she still likes to play fight with me and snuggles with me every day. She just needed to learn the rules....

So, no... don't punish your rats and don't be abusive, but communicate honestly. If something they do displeases you communicate it to them so they can understand. No mixed messages. No smart rat is going to get shouted at or bopped for something they know how to avoid. 

On the down side, one rat we had finally figured out my bark was worse than my bite and learned to ignore me... One day I shouted, and threw things at her and bopped and she wouldn't stop chewing the carpet... she knew I wouldn't really hurt her.... Then I called my daughter and she took off... until I left the room, when I came back she was down to hardwood... so don't overplay your hand... you really aren't going to hurt your rats but don't let them figure it out or you will be back to square one or in my case down to hardwood flooring. 

I'm a huge teddy bear, and our rats walk all over me, literally... for the most part I think they do right because they know it makes me happy and they don't want to upset me... rather than that they fear me, which they don't.

Best luck.


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

I prefer not to abuse, hit or yell at my beloved pets but thanks.....

I train my dogs, cats and rats using +R. I prefer not to teach fear but to create a positive environment where they learn to make the right choice themselves because they want to. 

Dany has severe fear issues. Any kindof negativity or fear would not improve the situation but make it a million times worse. She is not being naughty & doesn't deserve punishment, she just doesn't know how to communicate correctly. She was making a huge step by coming to me and wanting treats. It was my fault for not correctly dealing with it when it started. I accidentally rewarded her. I am not shifting it to something better.

I wasn't really looking for advice, just sharing a story and my progress with my girl.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm sorry if I came across in any way against +r. Positive reinforcement is my go to strategy too... In over a year, I've only resorted to what I call honest communication twice with our rats and I've never gone to the point of punishing a rat and didn't mean to imply otherwise. And both times when I did get honestly emotional, I fixed an intolerable situation. Otherwise I'm constantly praising our truly wonderful rats, just for being themselves. They constantly get treats and rewards, just for being wonderful. 

I am curious to see how your method works out... There is a whole body of research that shows your method should produce good results, but I'm just not sure I understand how the new spinning behavior is going to communicate to Dany that you are displeased with her behavior and require her to change it... You might wind up with spin and bite or bite and spin... or spin and if she doesn't get what she wants then bite...? It really is a cool experiment... and you are a whole lot more patient than I am... So, I'll consider myself privileged to sit back and watch how this works out. And stop commenting from the peanut gallery.


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

> but I'm just not sure I understand how the new spinning behavior is going to communicate to Dany that you are displeased with her behavior and require her to change it...


Because I am not trying to teach her that I am displeased with it? You said positive reinforcement is your go to strategy (though there is no place for yelling or hitting in +R). The entire point of +R is not to focus on the negative. You don't say hey this is bad, you show them what is good instead. It is not about teaching them NOT to do something but showing them what you want them to do instead. So the animal learns itself to make the right choice for the reward.

So right now she learns that spin gives her what she wants. Every single time she spins she gets a treat.
Now if she bites she gets nothing.

She is smart enough to go hey I want the reward and I only get it if I do this. 1 + 1 = 2. She stops biting and instead begins to spin for me. 


Actually I haven't been bitten since but she is still charging me. But no bites. 
I have good faith that it will work. I am a huge fan of +R. I train my dogs heavily and one of my dogs I just got but my other dog is a rockstar. 

It is really easy to just let our emotions rule us, when something is going on to just lash out and yell or react. But IMO it really is not fair to the animals to do that. Most "bad" things they are doing is not even really a bad thing for them, just undesirable for us and probably wouldn't have happened if we controlled the situation better. Sometimes just stopping and taking a step back, a nice long deep breath before reacting to the situation helps. Then I try to figure out WHY it is happening. Like in this case, Dany isn't being aggressive or even a stubborn brat. She just doesn't understand the correct way to communicate with me.


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

Dany now spins with just the command, no hand signal needed. 

https://youtu.be/dyNNCVTduTc


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