# First litter of babies for me and for my new rat mom, questions!



## Danielle07 (Feb 17, 2013)

Hello! 

I am new to the forum. My rattie Jasmine has just had her first litter of babies  Yes they were planned and I do have homes for some of them as I did not know how many to expect. However because this is my first time andd also her first time I do have some general questions. I have done my research but still being new at this is well, NEW to me so just a little reassurance would be nice 

1. both of my Rats to my belief of the research I have done are Blue Russian berkshires, one with a blaze, one with a headspot. The babies are still only 2 days old so I cannot tell much yet what they will look like however all of them have very dark eyes except one whose eyes are a lighter color, more of a ruby color. This means that both of my rats had to have one parent each that was an albino? I am a little confused on this....? & just curious itdoes not actually matter I will love them all the same 

2. Bedding. I know there has been A lot of debate with this subject. I haven't went very far into it, but I was using fleece for along time,but switched mom over to a larger cage right before she had the babies, and knowing that I would have to change it a lot more frequently as I like to keep my rats VERY clean, I decided instead of the fleece which I would had to change daily that I would try cedar because it is something that I can just dump every couple of days. I have heard a lot of bad things about the aspen but not much on the cedar just to make sure the babies while they are pinkies to be sure they have a soft spot and soft materials for the nest, so I offered pieces of fleece, pieces of cardboard and othere nesting materials to mom that she has made the nest out of so they babies are in a soft area for now until they start walking around of course. What is everyones opinion on this?

3. I know moms make nests, I know instinct is best, I know babies squeak a lot,but she continuously buries them deeper and deeper into the nest. I have not disturbed this but it does worry me, she does sit on top of it, but she does still go all the way into it and stay in there to feed the babies however my concern is because shes burying them so much that even when shes in there one may get under something and not be feeding. I did take them out once so far when they were about 24 hours old to get a for sure count of them and check them all out and also make sure they all had milk in their bellies, and of course take a couple of quick pictures. Mom was fine with me handling them and all of the babies looked fine as well, and I have left them alone since, but I can't really see them anymore because they are so far into the nest with mom. I do hear them squeak though which does reassure me. Should I check on them once a day or so? Its what I planned to do and she didn't mind the once that I did so far, but she is continuously putting more and more stuff on her nest pile so should I let her be and not check them for a few days or week or so?


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

Cedar is VERY BAD!! Aspen is better. Cedar can kill you rats. Aspen won't. 

I think you got it backwards.


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## Rumy91989 (Dec 31, 2012)

1. The gene for "albino" or PEW is recessive and pops up in most litters, so that's normal.

2. Cedar is terrible for rats--it's toxic and they should all (especially the babies) be taken off it immediately


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## Danielle07 (Feb 17, 2013)

I read the dust in the Aspen is bad and hurts them which made sense because the pieces were so small and fine and dusty. The cedar that I got is very large pieces and not dusty at all? It's still bad? What is the easiest and cheapest way to keep it clean for all of the babies and mom?


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

Do you have the parents separated? If yes, then that's good. If not.... You should really separate then ASAP. A female can become pregnant immediately after giving birth. 

Just check the mom daily. Make sure the baby rats have a good milk band. Check to make sure that one or more hasn't be separated from the group. Sometimes the babies will "hang on" and get lost in the bedding when the mom goes to eat or drink. 

If you want to handle them you can. Just make sure you don't upset the mom. Mom rat knows best what to do. Sometimes a new mom can be nervous, but your girl looks like she's doing a great job.


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## Rumy91989 (Dec 31, 2012)

You can use aspen chips--they are safe. Pine and cedar are not, no matter the size of the pellet. Fleece is the best option but if you want cheap go with aspen shavings.


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

The oils in Cedar are "toxic". They can kill your rats. Dust from aspen isn't good, but it's not as bad as cedar. Pine is also bad for rats. If you're going to use a wood bedding. You should get a high quality Aspen. It's more expensive, but it's lower in dust. 

For the most part...... Wood shavings aren't the best idea.

Paper towels would be better. Even shredded paper would be better. 

My rats have never had a litter, but I can imagine it's a bit nerve racking trying to figure out what's best for them. There's so much conflicting info out there.


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## Danielle07 (Feb 17, 2013)

I left Dad in right up to when mom started having the babies and then he let me know himself he wanted out of there lol, he was very panicky and gave me the heads up she was having them lol, I opened the cage door and he came right out onto my shoulder and wanted no part of going back in there while she was having the babies, he just watched with me  So Yes, everyone is separated although I feel bad for dad now because he is alone. So I get him out A LOT to play. & I have let him and mom see each other with very extremely close supervision!

I check on mom a lot just peeking in, she does still come out a couple times a day but just for short periods of 10-15 min. She has separated them before when I've fed her and shes come to the food bowl. I have put them back for her or she has put them back herself. She is very ok with me being around them, but is more leery of my daughter or husband being near. She doesn't bite them or become aggressive but she will go sit on the babies and stay there being alert whereas with me she just goes about her business and could care less. 

It is a little more re-assuring knowing her burying them is fine and me wanting to check on them is still fine. 

I am just very nervous as she is too we are both new at this and I have this fear of stressing her out and rejecting them or something I do not want that to happen but I don't want anyone getting lost in the nest and not being fed or getting hurt either! 

Thank you all though!


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## Muttlycrew (Dec 21, 2012)

I'd definitely switch to aspen. Also, you mentioned that one had a blaze, I wouldn't breed them. These are high white markings and can cause mega colon and kill the babies. 
Also (just a side note) intentional breeding is not allowed to be discussed on this forum (just part of the rules) so don't be too surprised if this thread gets deleted.
Definitely separate the parents.
Petco carries aspen bedding and it's only like $5, really cheap. 



Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Danielle07 (Feb 17, 2013)

There is very conflicting information out there! Ugh! But I guess I will remove the cedar asap, and just use the fleece, I really didn't want to having so many ratties in there because it will be super gross and smell and be dirty after just one day or even sooner. 

I changed fleece every 2-3 days with just my two rats, otherwise it would start to smell and get soggy and gross. I can't imagine how often I am going to have to change it have 11 of them in there!  But I just can't stand dirty, I am a little OCD with cleanliness! But I don't want my babies hurt either so I guess I will just have to deal :/


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

Make sure you give the mom some extra protein. Scrambled eggs is the easiest/fastest thing to give. You can get creative with other proteins if you'd like.


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## Danielle07 (Feb 17, 2013)

I bought them from a pet store and intentionally knew that she was probably already pregnant. 

It was just the 2 of them together and they had always been just the two of them together. I did not want just one because I know they are very social creatures, and I knew the likelihood of her being pregnant was very high since they were one boy and one girl. My daughter and I fell in love with them and brought them home. I left them together assuming she was already pregnant. Turns out she wasn't because I have had them for 3 months or so and she just now had babies. So really I didn't do it to breed them it just kind of happened, but I knew....... well yeah its kind of difficult to explain, but I am sure you understand. 

So I did not intentionally breed. 

But anyways. I did not know anything about certain marking like the blaze meaning sickness?


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## Danielle07 (Feb 17, 2013)

They like hard boiled eggs  I feed them standard rat food but I also give them fruits, veggies, hard boiled eggs, crackers, yogurt, etc.


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## Rumy91989 (Dec 31, 2012)

At this point you should then make sure you have two cages and keep one of the male babies for the dad and female babies for the mom, especially given that it seems they carry a genetic marker that can be fatal to their offspring. If you insist on keeping mom and dad together you should get dad neutered, especially since they are pet store rats and you know nothing of their history and the health and other issues they may be passing on to their young. 
Yes, do make sure mom gets lots and lots of protein.


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

I can understand how these things happen. I kept my rats together until the male was 91/2 weeks old. I got lucky and my girls weren't pregnant. Apparently males can breed at 6 weeks. So, I got "REALLY" lucky. 

The Blaze/high white isn't a guarantee they'll have problems. There's just a higher possibility. Not sure how much higher though.

BTW The babies are REALLY CUTE!! I hope you keep updating photos as the mature. It's always fun to watch babies grow up. Especially since my girls will never have any. So, for me, it's sort of babies by proxy.


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

Here's the link for the high white/blaze info. 

http://www.spoiledratten.com/highwhitecont.html


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## Danielle07 (Feb 17, 2013)

I just cleaned out the cage and took out all of the cedar and replaced with the fleece again  I did leave in the little pieces of other things she had in the nest so it would all smell the same. All 10 babies are accounted for and look great  I also got pictures of day 2 while I had them out changing everything. I do think I for sure have one that will have the pink/red eyes and will be lighter than the rest, I notice a little more of a difference even today than from yesterday. I will post the pictures 

My hubby didn't want me to keep any of the babies, but for the fact of keeping one boy and one girl just to keep 2 cages one with a boy with dad and one with a girl with mom, I think the hubby will have to get over it lol. I told him this yesterday and he didn't seem too thrilled lol but he does really love them and enjoy them too, he just doesn't want us over-run


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## Danielle07 (Feb 17, 2013)

I put up the new picture just now of the babies! Its in my album of photos for the babies  I am also adding it here! I just adore them so much already! & my little one on the top left is so much more light in color and eyes that are going to be the pink/ruby color  The difference is becoming more pronounced each day


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## Danielle07 (Feb 17, 2013)

I put up the new picture just now of the babies! Its in my album of photos for the babies  I am also adding it here! I just adore them so much already! & my little one on the top left is so much more light in color and eyes that are going to be the pink/ruby color  The difference is becoming more pronounced each day  <img style="margin: 1px;" src="http://www.ratforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28937&stc=1" attachmentid="28937" alt="" id="vbattach_28937" class="previewthumb">


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## Kaliloca (Jan 24, 2013)

Thanks for the updated picture. They're precious!!  

Love the little pink eye one. I can hardly wait until the colors come in more. You can just make out a pattern on a few.  They grow and change so quickly. You'll have lots of fun once their personalities start to develop.


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## Danielle07 (Feb 17, 2013)

Yes, they each have a barely noticable pattern on them & the color intensity varies on each of them as well. I just love them already! 

I love them little but I am excited for them to get a little bit bigger at least with some fur so I can play with them more


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Can you get pictures of the parents? not all blazes are high whites, and it's Very odd for a Berkshire to have a head spot, it sounds like both are Variberks (Variegated berkshires) which have recessive blazes and are Not high whites.

I would use Aspen for them, along with the fleece. It will keep you from cleaning their cage as often.

If you can't keep any of them, which would be sad, you can also get the father neutered or (better) the mom spayed (spaying helps prevent mammary tumors which a lot of females get). you could also get the mother and one of the baby girls spayed so you can have 1 group of rats instead of 2.

btw, nice job on finding homes for them a head of time (I'm assuming you interviewed potential adopters?). Not a lot of people think about that step and it leads to a lot of issues.

Also the burying her babies is a good sign. It helps keep them warm and will actually help make them feel more secure.


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## Rumy91989 (Dec 31, 2012)

Such cute babies! Be sure to let your husband know that having four ratties is not a big deal, especially if you've just got two cages of two and two.  I'm sure he'll fall in love with some babies and want you to keep them anyway! Can't wait to see how their markings develop.


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## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

Yep, I'm echoing what LW said. You can always just neuter dad or spay mom & keep those two together, instead of having to keep any of the offspring. I'm sure your husband would be happier that way, lol.


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