# Food for rats?



## let1it9be (May 17, 2012)

So right now I am trying to do some research as to what is THE BEST food for my rats. I am hearing good and bad things about lab blocks and I am hearing a lot of people say dog food is good for them? Is that true??? I want what is best for my girls, reguardless of the price. So what is THE BEST? I want something that is healthy for them and something they will really enjoy.


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## Flashygrrl (Feb 8, 2012)

http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?39486-Good-and-Bad-Food-for-Rats-amp-Ratty-Recipes

Make sure you take note in the lab block section about how Oxbow Regal Rat has upstaged the Harlan Teklad. They're both good but for a normal rat, the RR is better and more readily available however not all rats will like it and you may have to ask your local pet store to order some for you which usually isn't a problem. If you feel like you must feed something else with the blocks make the mix and don't feed them too much...I know there's a member on here that does her own version of the mix and likes it but I don't remember where to find the video. Lab blocks are meant to provide pretty much all that a rat needs and fresh foods especially veggies are very healthful and interesting for them. The dog food thing, I'm not entirely sure of because I've always had the good blocks available and no reason to try it really.

Everyone will debate what is THE BEST, they have their favorites and the rats certainly have theirs as well. What have you heard bad about the lab blocks?


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## hcroark (May 6, 2012)

We don't do lab blocks or doggy kibble. I make my own mix and supplement with proteins, fruits, and veggies. 

My grain mix is pretty close to Debbie's Homemade Rat Diet:
http://www.ratfanclub.org/diet.html
However, I don't add supplements and I don't use the tofu, sunflower seeds, and brown rice. And instead of Total cereal (it has BHT in it as a preservative), I use Weetabix and Kashi type cereals. I have also added a small amount of soy nuts and pumpkin seeds (instead of the sunflower seeds). I can give you my exact recipe if you want it. The only thing the boys don't care for in this mix is the flax seed.
Edited to add that I also include a powdered probiotic to this mix as well!
This vegan site has more ideas of stuff to put in the mix. 
http://veganza.com/2007/12/03/rat-diet/

One of the Kashi cereals I use has lots of protein in it. The soy nuts has protein too. I also like to give hard boiled egg (scrambled is good too!)and raw chicken wing tip with the bone (raw chicken bones do not splinter like cooked). They also love pieces off of my dog's raw Stella and Chewy's patties (http://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-products.php). Of course I feed the meats sparingly. Maybe once or twice a week.

I also just ordered some of The Honest Kitchen dehydrated meals to give them. They are loaded with fruit and veggies. I'm just gonna pick out the meat and give it to the dogs. I figure this would be good when I don't have lots of fresh stuff on hand. I got the 4 oz trial size (makes 1 lb of food once rehydrated) of the Force, Embark, and Zeal. Preference version has no meats in it at all if you don't have a dog to give the meat too. 

Hope that helps and give you some ideas!


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## let1it9be (May 17, 2012)

Flashygrrl, I have heard from numerous people that most lab blocks that are found in pet stores contain ground yellow corn as the first ingredient. Upon research (I work at petco) we carry two brands of lab blocks. One being Kaytee Forti-Diet Pro Health, and the second being LM Animal Farms small animal blocks. Both had yellow corn in the first 3 ingredients. When I first got my two rats, they were being fed nothing but a mix of crackers(saltines, cheese nips, etc). I quickly bought the first and only bag of rat food on the shelf (the lab blocks were on recall at the time for potential salmonella). They are eating Kaytee Fiesta Max right now (I know, terrible choice) but it was the only thing available. Unfortunately, my store only carries what they tell us to carry. We have a very limited selection when it comes to rat food and supplies. I also checked the local petsmart and pet supplies plus but the variety and selection is very minimal. 

That is one of the reasons I questioned dog food. I remember in the past my friend had a rat and she fed him dog food and fresh vegetables and fruits. Dog food is more readily available to me so I figured I'd ask about it. I want something that is healthy for my ratties. But also something that I don't have to run 100 miles to find.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

Corn. Is. Fine. In. Lab. Blocks. RAWR! (tired of always repeating myself there)

Corn is toxic in its WHOLE, UNTREATED, UNPROCESSED form. Ground corn is sterilized by heat in an autoclave to kill spores/bacteria, and because it is ground, it is readily digestible. If the blocks didn't contain corn, they would be VERY small and nutrient packed - think of it like eating a single pill a day that contained all the nutrients you need. You still need to have filler/mass in food.

That being said, I don't personally recommend a seed mix as recommended above. It is VERY difficult to get a nutritionally complete mix diet. Here is a post I made on the topic recently.



Jaguar said:


> Proper, high quality, specially formulated lab blocks for rats are actually a great staple, and many rats even like to eat them. Harlan Teklad 2014 Rodent Diet is a block type food formulated for use in research laboratories. It's not 100% perfect, as it is a processed food - mass manufacturing a perfect food would be near impossible. But it is about as close as you can get. It could make up 100% of your rat's diet. Oxbow Regal Rat and certain Mazuri diets are also good alternatives. But rats do love to forage and variety keeps them interested.
> 
> They require a lot of vitamin K, so leafy greens like kale and spinach are especially good for them. But that comes with a catch - these veggies are also high in vitamin A, and too much vitamin A in the diet is toxic and can cause skin problems. Dog food is also very, very high in vitamin A - most have something like 4 times more than a rat needs for general maintenance. Grain and cereal mixes like Suebees have very low calcium. And if you try to add in more additional foods to balance it out, you tend to create other problems in its wake!
> 
> My best advice is to feed supplements and treats in moderation and make sure you have a good, nutritionally complete staple food as most of the diet. It sounds complicated and I'm sure a lot of people will wonder why they should bother. But I think any effort to increase the longevity, health, and lifespan of our wonderful rats is more than worth it.


Dog food is called dog/cat food and not rat food for a good reason. For example, cat food is way too high in protein, and dog food is way too high in vitamin A. Both fed as a staple long term will cause SERIOUS health issues in your rat and eventually death. A few pieces every now and then as treats is okay.


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## Flashygrrl (Feb 8, 2012)

The LPS that I ordered my lab blocks from seems to get it from Dr. Foster & Smith since they charged me the same price that it costs on the website. If you wanted the Regal Rat you could order from them...the other options on their site aren't great. You don't have any Mom & Pop pet stores around?


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## hcroark (May 6, 2012)

I tend to think about what are they designed to eat? We know they are omnivores so let's theorize. If they lived in the wild and had access to everything they NEED, what would they be eating? It wouldn't be processed foods. Heck, it wouldn't even be cooked. So I tend to lean toward a diet more like that would naturally eat. I even do that with my dogs by feeding them the Prey Model Raw Diet. 
I know alot of people will disagree with me but that's how I choose to feed my pets.


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## Zilla (May 9, 2012)

let1it9be said:


> Flashygrrl, I have heard from numerous people that most lab blocks that are found in pet stores contain ground yellow corn as the first ingredient. Upon research (I work at petco) we carry two brands of lab blocks. One being Kaytee Forti-Diet Pro Health, and the second being LM Animal Farms small animal blocks. Both had yellow corn in the first 3 ingredients. When I first got my two rats, they were being fed nothing but a mix of crackers(saltines, cheese nips, etc). I quickly bought the first and only bag of rat food on the shelf (the lab blocks were on recall at the time for potential salmonella). They are eating Kaytee Fiesta Max right now (I know, terrible choice) but it was the only thing available. Unfortunately, my store only carries what they tell us to carry. We have a very limited selection when it comes to rat food and supplies. I also checked the local petsmart and pet supplies plus but the variety and selection is very minimal.


I work at Petco too, and when I first got my rats I fed them LM Animal Farms blocks (which haven't been recalled for salmonella - just the Kaytee). I fed them that until I was able to order Harlan Teklad blocks online for them. If I happen to run out of HT I use the LM as a backup until I can get more. They're a little high in protein but they're not awful. Better than the Fiesta Max. When we didn't have any of the LM blocks on the shelf during the recall (since we pulled them all to use in the store) I gave them a little bit of the Reggie Rat mix food with their blocks to stretch it out, but I took out the corn. It really sucks that Petco doesn't carry good rat food because I could really use my employee discount. The stuff's expensive. Lol


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## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

Since Harlan has such a large minimum order value ($1,000, I am told), the easiest way to get hold of Teklad is from a rescue that buys in bulk and helps support itself by selling off the excess. Teklad comes in four formulas for rats: Traditional Diet 8604 (23% protein, for babies), Global Diet 2018 (18% protein, for youngsters), Global Diet 2016 (16% protein, for adults), and Global Diet 2014 (14% protein, for old or overweight rats). Your goal for a normal adult rat is 16% protein and no more than 10% fat, plus assorted essential vitamins and minerals. HT 2018 can be purchased online in 40-lb. bags under the brand name Native Earth 4018. Rescues will usually sell all the HT formulas, in various sizes from 3 lbs. on up.

Oxbow Regal Rat comes in two flavors. The original flavor is disliked by many rats, although they seem to find the newer one (cheese, I believe) quite tasty. Since it has only 16% protein, it is not suitable for younger rats.

Mazuri Rat and Mouse Diet is the equivalent of HT Traditional Diet 8604, and so should not be fed to adult rats. Too much protein causes skin and pelt problems. The two Mazuri formulas that are good for adults are their Rodent Breeder 6F and Rodent Breeder 9F, which both contain 16% protein and differ only in the amount of fat (6% and 9%, resepectively).

The Mazuri Web site has a very helpful set of technical papers, giving the nutritional analyses of various foods. (Go to http://www.mazuri.com/animalresourcecenter.aspx and scroll down to the heading "Feed Composition.") Some of the data may surprise you.

I want to reiterate Jaguar's statement about corn (maize). Corn intended for human consumption is definitely fine for rats (they can even eat the husks, cobs, and stalks). The problem with it in pet foods is that many manufacturers buy improperly stored feed corn that contains a fungus that causes cancer in rats. A high-quality manufacturer, such as Harlan, Oxbow, or Mazuri, will use only high-quality corn in its formulas. Harlan, in particular, supplies laboratories that cannot afford to have their experiments ruined by the presence of carcinogens in their rats' diets. It would lose its business if it supplied food made from inferior ingredients.

Also for experimental consistency, Harlan excludes soy--except for soy oil, which does not contain them--from Teklad to reduce the amount of phytoestrogens, and excludes animal protein and fish meal to reduce the presence of nitrosamines. Phytoestrogens and nitrosamines would wreak  havoc on any cancer experiment, for example. Soy, meat, and fish are, however, fine for pet rats, since you are presumably not running cancer experiments on them

Alfalfa and timothy will not harm your ratties, but rats cannot digest them. Thus, any rat food containing alfalfa or timothy is a waste of your money, since that portion of the food is nothing more than filler, as far as your rats are concerned.

Also, beware of generalizing from how foods affect other animals, to how they will affect rats. Timothy and alfalfa have already been mentioned. They do no good for rats, but rabbits need them for a healthy diet. Likewise, chocolate is fine for rats, although bad for dogs' livers. And cooked chicken bones, which are a no-no for dogs, because they splinter when a dog crunches them, are perfectly fine for rats, since the rats only gouge out small nibbles. Cats love milk, but rats are lactose-intolerant. And so on and so forth.


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## Zilla (May 9, 2012)

BigBen said:


> Also for experimental consistency, Harlan excludes soy--except for soy oil, which does not contain them--from Teklad to reduce the amount of phytoestrogens, and excludes animal protein and fish meal to reduce the presence of nitrosamines. Phytoestrogens and nitrosamines would wreak havoc on any cancer experiment, for example. Soy, meat, and fish are, however, fine for pet rats, since you are presumably not running cancer experiments on them
> .


I was wondering about this... since I feed my boys Harlan Teklad should I supplement anything with it? Since it doesn't contain soy or meat?

I was also wondering which formula is best for them... I have all males, two of them are young (around four months), but the hairless that I rescued seems a bit older. I was told that males especially need less protein and to go with 2014, so that's what I got. Is this adequate for them or do they need 2016?

Besides their blocks, I also give them a little dog food (Nutro Natural Choice Lite) every so often and veggies (both fresh and dried) a couple times a week.


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## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

You can give up to 20% of their total diet as treats. That way, they get the solid nutrition as well as the variety. Rats eat pretty much what we eat, and just as we do, usually prefer the less-healthy alternatives, lol. But there's no reason not to give them small quantities of anything not actually harmful. Ordinarily I'd go easy on the dogfood, since it's high in protein, but of course you're giving them 2014, so there's room for some extra protein in their diet. Broccoli also has a lot of protein in it (as do a surprising number of other vegetables), and rats generally like it.

Depending on what I'm eating, I generally give my ratties either veggies (fresh or frozen) or baby food morning and evening. I try to keep down the quantity of fruits, partly because the moisture content can cause loose stools, and partly because of the sugar content. My rats love mealworms, cooked pasta, polenta, salad greens, roasted peanuts, pizza crusts, yogurt, and bones. But they go absolutely bonkers for uncooked pasta and for whipped cream. I save the former as a reward for putting up with Daddy's random belly smooching, and the latter as an extra-special treat.


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## jenn1c (May 6, 2012)

I adopted my 3 girls from a rescue and this is what I was told to make for them:
cheap dog food
puffed corn, kamut, rice, wheat cereal
raisins
raw pumpkin seeds
sunflower seeds
oatmeal (not the instant kind)

We bought a tote bin and mixed it all in there.
For treats they get veggies, dry whole wheat pasta and yogurt covered raisins.

I appreciate any feedback anyone may have on this diet and its effects on my ratties. These are the first ones we've ever had and I am trusting that I have been taught well.


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## Zilla (May 9, 2012)

Thanks BigBen, that is really helpful. I've thought about giving them mealworms before so maybe I will. They do love yogurt, so usually if I'm giving them a treat I use that or bananas, which they also go crazy for. But maybe it's time to try something new


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I've heard about skin problems with adult rats eating too much protien. Can someone please describe what these issues are? So in the event that it ever becomes a problem I might be able to recognize it?


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

hcroark said:


> I tend to think about what are they designed to eat? We know they are omnivores so let's theorize. If they lived in the wild and had access to everything they NEED, what would they be eating? It wouldn't be processed foods. Heck, it wouldn't even be cooked. So I tend to lean toward a diet more like that would naturally eat. I even do that with my dogs by feeding them the Prey Model Raw Diet.
> I know alot of people will disagree with me but that's how I choose to feed my pets.


How on earth do you manage to provide them with ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING they would have access to in the wild? Small fish, dead snakes, bugs, garden fruits and veggies, wild grasses, many types of seeds and nuts, etc....

That's the thing... they can only eat what you give them. If their bodies are lacking a specific nutrient, they cannot forage for a food that contains it. They get what they get, even if it is lacking in vital nutrients. That is why feeding a balanced block-type food is a safer bet, because it covers the most bases possible without causing an extreme nutrient imbalance like trying to tweak a grain mix would.


Too much protein will show on the skin as an orange greasy substance at the base of the fur, clumpy or frizzy fur, scabs, flaky skin, persistent itching, barbering (chewing hair off), and so on.


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## shawnalaufer (Aug 21, 2011)

For a lab block, I use *Oxbow Foods Regal Rat*. It is a low fat blend with balanced fiber and fat to help support a healthy weight. No artifical colors or flavors, corn or fillers. Since it is recommended for rats over 4 
months of age, the youngsters get *Solid Gold Holistique Blendz *dog food. 

Harlan Teklad, the best known lab block has a formula, 2018, that is 18% protein and 5% fat for young rats and nursing mothers. Solid Gold Holistique Blendz's protein is not less than 18%, not _likely_ to be more than 21% and the fat is about 6%. So as you can see, they are very very similar. I use the Holistique Blendz because its easier to get- I can get it at Petsmart or Petco and lots of placed online. Harlan Teklad is very hard to get a hold of without buying a huge bag, unless you get smaller bags from someone who is splitting the bag and reselling smaller quantities of it. That's not a bag idea, but I personally don't like buying pet foods that are opened, especcially when I don't know how fresh it is. I also have no idea as to what the codes are on the bag, in case of a pet food recall. 

The Regal Rat has 14% protein and 4% fat, much like Harlan Teklad's 2014 formula (14% protein and 3.5% fat). This is the best of Harlan Teklad's diets to feed as an overall maintenance diet to adult rats. I buy Regal 
Rat online although I know other areas have said they sell it in store (my petstores don't locally). 

I used to feed my rats the popular Suebee mix but I also have always had chubby rats. Now I use just the Oxbow Regal Rat and the Solid Gold Holistique Blendz as a staple and supplement my Rat Whisperer Diet Supplement, which is similar to Suebees, but each rat only gets 2 tbsp daily as a supplement, not as a diet staple. I have already seen a difference in the males weight- they don't look quite as round around the middle, LOL! You can find the recipe on my blog (see sig). ​﻿I keep it all food fresh and pest-free using *Gamma Vittles Vault Plus *(15 lb size) containers.

I also provide various pureed baby food, fresh and/or frozen fruits,veggies, and fresh herbs including but not limited to:apples, bananas, prunes, peas, corn, bok choy, fresh parsley, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower, celery, melon, green beans, dark leafy greens, various berries, etc. I try to alternate fruit, veggie, fruit, veggie, etc. 

Three times a week they also get Healthforce Nutritionals' Green Mush, a superfood.


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## moongate (Mar 12, 2012)

See, now I'm concerned about my boys not getting the right nutrients. I currently use the Sue Bee's mix along with Harlan Teklan 2014, along with the occasional bit of dog food (I check for the lowest amount of protien) and give them vegtables daily. They don't eat the lab blocks as much as they eat the vegtables or mix. Should I be trying to get them to eat more lab blocks and less mix?


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## shawnalaufer (Aug 21, 2011)

I would say lose the dog food- you already got excellent lab blocks and use the mix as a treat, like 2 tbsp of it a day or something. Then you should be fine.


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## moongate (Mar 12, 2012)

The only reason I used the dog food nitially was because I have two younger rats (about 5 months now) and thought that they needed extra protien because the 2014 was geared for adult rats. But it's good to know that I'm not too far off track.


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## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

moongate said:


> The only reason I used the dog food nitially was because I have two younger rats (about 5 months now) and thought that they needed extra protien because the 2014 was geared for adult rats. But it's good to know that I'm not too far off track.


You're right, they did and still do need the extra protein, less now than when they were younger, of course. By the time they are eight or nine months old, the lab blocks alone will be enough. But you could still give the dog food as a treat, now and then, along with everything else. It sounds as though you're definitely on the right track. My guideline is that if they're not eating the blocks, then I'm giving them too many treats, and then I cut back until I'm sure they're eating the blocks again. Although, when you have four pairs of adorable ratty eyes staring at you mournfully, it's hard to be strong, lol!


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