# Am I doing something wrong?



## Jon (Mar 1, 2014)

So, on Saturday I got 2 new pet rats who are females, one is Binky and one is Ella. They are both 5 weeks old and part of the reason I got them was to comfort my current old female Rue who is 2 years and 3 months old now. I have been doing immersion over the last few days and they love to hide in my hoodie but they do not like to be picked up. They lick my fingers and lick yogurt off them too. I just feel like I am doing something wrong. They do not come up to the bars or act happy to see me and they squirm out of being picked up, especially in the cage. Once they are out they are slightly better but still. I am going to introduce them to Rue tomorrow and do that for a couple of days. I just feel very overwhelmed and out of control, like I'm doing something wrong. I was so happy to get them and now I am feeling like it's almost too much, and maybe Rue would be better off alone I shouldn't have got the baby rats .I just don't what to do next.

1. Is tomorrow a good time to start introductions?
2. What should I do next with my rats? All I am doing now is having them in my hoodie for an hour a day with letting them eat yogurt off my finger and I stroke them.
3. Will they ever get used to my hands?

Thanks


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

They're young and squirmy. They'll get used to handling as long as you continue to handle them but young girls often don't enjoy it. They want to run around. I'd start bringing them out to play instead of to sit and see how they like it. 


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

How's your older girl doing? Do the new ones trust you enough to take food and listen to nos occasionally. 


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## Jon (Mar 1, 2014)

Yeah the new rats trust me enough to take food and get scritches. I hope they get better. When I bring them out I get them out in the bathroom where they will run out a bit but come back to me and get in my hoodie or settle on me. Is it because they do not have any toys or things to see outside? I thought distractions were bad in immersion.


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Well immersion is just to create a bond between rat and owner, that allows for communication. Once you are being heard and listening, immersion can just be play. 

Some immersion is group play, some is class nap time, others are battles. Distractions in immersion that are bad are those that don't have you and your rat together and interacting. 


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## ratty_milkshake (Feb 24, 2014)

Awww dont worry!!!! This is so normal!!!!

They are very new and will be perfectly fine in a while (less than a month if you spend loads of time with them).

If rue is very well socialised introducing them to her will help them socialise faster.


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## Jon (Mar 1, 2014)

Ok, that makes me feel better  I will start the introductions tomorrow then? And I'll add some toys in the bathroom so my baby rats can have some fun whilst also letting them in my hoodie sometimes so they are close to me.

Rue is socialized, just not that well. She wasn't treated well at the pet shop we got her from (tail holding+ 3 months of people staring at her) so she is skittish and does not enjoy being held but she is lovely


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## Jeremy (Nov 14, 2013)

I have two female rats. Bella is going on 4 years now. She is so gentle and so loving and so sweet. But I didn't do much when it came to immersion and socialization because this was my first baby and I didn't know all this then. Now Evander is around 6 months old now. I got Eve from the pet store while Bella was professionally bred. I definitely think that where your rat comes from,plays a huge role in how they'll act. Eve was a pain in the butt lol. But with time and bringing her on car rides and to stores she's turned into a sweet little lady. She has her off days but who doesn't? Another important thing to know is that girls will be girls. They can be prissy haha. They are also very energetic. They'd rather run around and feel, touch and climb everything before they tire out to come lay with you. Eve still won't. But that's ok. She has a special personality. I know your ladies will mature and you'll eventually notice how much they love you. 


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Just double checking... are you about to introduce 5 week old babies to a 2 year old girl? Girl rats tend to attack and kill other rat's pups... Now Rue might be too old to fight but... Generally I wait until the pups are at least 8 weeks old before doing girl on girl intros...


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## Jon (Mar 1, 2014)

Well, I just did for half an hour. It actually went ok, Rue acts like she can't be bothered to show dominance really, she didn't start any attacks and just tried to stay out of their way (I had them all out on me in the bathtub). The little rats were dominance-fighting with her surprisingly, even though Rue is much more familiar with the bath. The little girls jumped on Rue'#s back almost like humping whihc I think is normal considering Rue did it to her old friend.

I am guessing this is abnormal then, but I really would doubt Rue would have attacked them. Rue is a very peaceful girl and never really showed much dominance and she is old in her actions. Rue does have a small scab from ages ago which I was wary of in case the Binky and Ella made it bleed which they didn't.

So I guess this went well? If I do this every day for half an hour will they be ready for cage sharing by the weekend?
I am scared of Rue hurting the little ones in her cage though, if I have to I can wait another week.

Also, on a side note, Binky and Ella have come out of their cage a bit more now, by that I mean they are much more hyper and active and funny


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## ratswithfoxandbear (Feb 12, 2014)

Jon said:


> So I guess this went well? If I do this every day for half an hour will they be ready for cage sharing by the weekend?
> I am scared of Rue hurting the little ones in her cage though, if I have to I can wait another week.
> 
> Also, on a side note, Binky and Ella have come out of their cage a bit more now, by that I mean they are much more hyper and active and funny


To answer your question, it depends. Your girls may be ready, but my introductions usually take around two weeks. Before I cage-share, I cage-swap. I start with items and then actually have the rats live in the other's cage. This gives them lots of time to get used to their smell. I watch their behavior as I do this, too.

When I tried to introduce too quickly, it went very poorly. Not to scare you, but you should be careful. If you have the space, there should not be any need to rush. Also, slowly increase the play-time together from half hour to full hour sessions.

My most aggressive girl would not get aggressive until an hour or hour-half because she was too busy figuring out her surroundings to mess with other rats. Once she was comfortable, it became a bit of an issue. If I went just on my half-hour sessions, I honestly believe both babes would have ended up in a bad situation.


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## Jon (Mar 1, 2014)

Ok, yeah, thanks. The only reason I am slightly trying to rush it is because my baby rats are in a pretty bad cage (I have to weigh the top down or there is a chance they could escape) and they are always trying to get out when I open it (so full of energy xD).

But yeah, I'll turn the half hour sessions into full hour ones. I don't want this to end badly as I want to make Rue's last year/months happy and not alone


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Jon,
I prefer fast sessions. As in four hours one day and living together that night. As long as they've dealt with each other then relaxed, I let them go in the cage and repeat before goin to bed. 


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## ratty_milkshake (Feb 24, 2014)

nanashi7 said:


> Jon,
> I prefer fast sessions. As in four hours one day and living together that night. As long as they've dealt with each other then relaxed, I let them go in the cage and repeat before goin to bed.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I totally agree!!! I was super stressed about intros but then the lady from the rescue suggested the carrier method and it was so quick and easy!!! No Fighting at all. Just have everyone in a small unfamiliar place for a while (30mins to a few hours) if there is no bad fighting ie. blood i would saw things will be fine. I dont think "bad introductions" where rats dont get allong at all happen that often. If things seem to not work out i would deal with it when it comes to that but generally just assume things will go well because they mostly will. 

I had my 4 in the bath. things were going well - everyone sniffing etc. i went out to get something and when i got back they were all napping in a big pile.


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## Jon (Mar 1, 2014)

Yeah, today I did the second introductions and they were much calmer. They a;; marked their spots and there was only a little bit of grabbing and play-fighting to begin with and things settled down until they were lying with each other and all taking yogurt off the same spoon. I am half way through but got interrupted by things so I will continue in a minute for half an hour so it will be an hour all together. Unfortunately nanashi I do not get enough time in the evenings to play with them for four hours straight so I will stick with the hour per night and perhaps spend a longer time with them on Saturday and perhaps get them in the same cage. However I worry Rue might see them as a threat to her territory and be dangerous, especially after what Rat Daddy said.

Thanks again everyone


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## ratty_milkshake (Feb 24, 2014)

Jon said:


> Yeah, today I did the second introductions and they were much calmer. They a;; marked their spots and there was only a little bit of grabbing and play-fighting to begin with and things settled down until they were lying with each other and all taking yogurt off the same spoon. I am half way through but got interrupted by things so I will continue in a minute for half an hour so it will be an hour all together. Unfortunately nanashi I do not get enough time in the evenings to play with them for four hours straight so I will stick with the hour per night and perhaps spend a longer time with them on Saturday and perhaps get them in the same cage. However I worry Rue might see them as a threat to her territory and be dangerous, especially after what Rat Daddy said.
> 
> Thanks again everyone


I introduced a 6week old baby to my 7month old girls and they were completely fine. If they arent fighting now then i doubt Rue will hurt them. If i was you i would just put them all in a cage together now. Regarding the territory thing just be sure to COMPLETELY clean the cage and rearrange things so it seems new.


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## Jon (Mar 1, 2014)

I don't think I will put them in the cage just yet, it is a bit soon. I will try tomorrow. I will spend an hour session in the morning and if it all goes to plan I will put them in there after a big clean.

Any tips?


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## aem3055 (May 1, 2014)

Rats identify their 'pack' by smell... You may already be doing this, but I'd start switching hammocks and things back and forth between the cages so Rue gets used to the babies' smell and they to her. Some people even switch the rat groups between the cages as well to help mingle smells.

On the day you DO put them together, clean everything out really good... scrub so there's no smells and they can make it their own together.

Some people have also tried to make the rats smell similar by either bathing them, or putting vanilla on their heads and genitals to make everyone smell the same!

Sounds like you've got your hands full! I'm glad Rue won't be alone and that you're giving her snuggle-buddies again! 
And when they're fully integrated, I think we need pictures!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

When rats sniff each other they go right to the source... they butt sniff to avoid confusion. Rats aren't stupid. Imagine if you parents brought some kid home, dressed him or her in your unwashed hand-me-downs and told you they were your brother or sister that you just never noticed around the house before....

There's nothing wrong with switching hammocks or cleaning the cage, if it makes you feel better... you can even dance naked in the moonlight before introducing your rats and it certainly won't hurt... and might even entertain your neighbors... but seriously folks, you are not fooling your rats... Rats bond and adopt to new family members because that's what rats do not because their tricky humans are fooling them...


Just remember, every year the ancient Mayans sacrificed human beings so that their crops would grow, and they did it for hundreds of years, so it must have worked sometimes....?

Rats do scent mark humans and most likely other rats so they can identify each other faster and while outdoors foraging at a greater distance... But by the time your rats scent mark you... they are already pretty much bonded with you. Rats also scent mark places they intend to return to. But I've never know two rats that didn't butt sniff when they ran across each other after being apart for even a little while to confirm exactly who is who.


I don't mean to offend anyone, but the confusing rats with scent thing is a myth that really should be put to rest. Not that you should stop doing it if you like, nor would I discourage anyone from dancing naked in the moonlight... Email your vids and photos to.... just kidding!!!!!

Seriously, I'm just kidding.


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## Jon (Mar 1, 2014)

Ah, well I did it anyway, surely it must get them used top each others scent in the same cage?

Anyway, they are all in the same cage now  It's been roughly 20 minutes and Rue and Binky are/were snuggling  Ella seems a bit scared and anxious of being in a different cage. They have fought a couple of times but other than that they are being great


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Honestly... I don't even clean the cage for intros.... or cage swap or any of that. I just do immersion so everybody is bonded to me and then bring everybody around me for supervised intros... they tail sniff and box... I break up anything before it gets nasty and encourage everyone to play together... after a while they sort it out and they go into the same cage... Done deal... no more dancing in the moonlight for me and my neighbors seem to appreciate it.

But like I said, most of the rituals don't hurt if it makes you feel more comfortable. 

However... if you fool around too long with intros you can get rats more agitated because there are strange rats in the house they don't know. Imagine if you woke up to find that there was someone in your house that wouldn't introduce himself to you or answer when you called out... The longer you hear the stranger rummaging around downstairs, the more anxious you might get. Most likely sneaking home in the middle of the night is what gets more cheating spouses shot than the affair itself.


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## Willieboo (Oct 22, 2012)

Oh, hun, believe me, you are doing everything just fine. Babies (girls especially) are squirmy squiggly little fuzzies and it takes a while for them to accept being handled. You've just got to keep having them with you, keep trying to handle them, etc. They'll come around. The fact that they like to sleep in your hoodie means that they see you as a safe and comfortable place to sleep; it's like you're their home base. Not to mention they trust you to lick food off your fingers. (This was a big step to conquer with one of my babies.)
I can't tell you much about immersion, but I do know that sometimes sitting with your babies in the bathtub (no water of course) is a good way to help them become more and more used to you. It's a small space so they can't stray from you and they get to spend quality time with you, whether they choose to spend that time sleeping in your jacket or exploring is up to them, but either way they are learning you. c:


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## Jon (Mar 1, 2014)

Yeah they are a little better now 

Well Rue is getting along just fine with new babies in her cage. They don't really sleep together but sometimes they will. Squabbles do occur but not many. I suppose it is time to end this thread  Rue will hopefully live out the rest of her life with company, food and love.

Thanks all


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