# Mable & her pups (previously "moving organs?")



## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

I think this is suitable here. One of my rats was curled up outside of her little house and I crouched down to look at her and notice something shifting/moving against her side (the side she wasn't curled up toward). To be honest, it really freaked me out but my boyfriend says it might be organ? I thought maybe it was babies possibly? It didn't appear to be huge, it was probably something like the width of her tail or something moving against her side/skin while she laid there. Then when she moved it went to the opposite side (side she wasn't curled toward). Is this normal? Is it an organ or maybe little ratties? Or do they breathe in a way that looks weird?


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

*Re: Moving organs?*

How long have you had her? Do you have male rats? I'm going to guess she is about to pop.


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Moving organs?*

Almost a week. All three are females. I'm guessing I must have bought her pregnant then without knowing. My other girl who I suspected to be pregnant is larger than this girl but no signs of shifting about inside her (maybe shes just fat? I dunno). If they're shifting around, does that mean like tonight? Tomorrow? I wasn't prepared for extras so if she is about ready to pop (if she in fact pregnant) then I'll probably stay up to keep an eye on her.


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

*Re: Moving organs?*

Yup, definitely in time for her to have been pregnant when you got her.

I don't think there's a way to know exactly, but by the time they are moving about like that the date is very close.

There is truly no other explanation that I can think of.

You're going to need to separate her, and get a suitable pregnancy cage or make a bin cage. I'm going to move this on over to the accidental litters forum so those experienced with pregnancy can help


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Moving organs?*

Oh jeez, I'm so nervous lol. I was not expecting this at all.

What is a bin cage? I can't even make it to the store til tomorrow evening for supplies, etc. Is there a topic/thread for making a bin cage?


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

*Re: Moving organs?*

http://www.dapper.com.au/articles.htm#cage

No hammocks or levels, we dont want falling babies.

If nothing else for now just in case, if you have a temp cage I'd put her there and block the sides of the wire with cardboard on the inside so no babies can fall out the side. If no temp cage, do that with her current cage.


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Moving organs?*

Thank you. Also, I heard something about problems with breeding hairless rats? She's hairless but I have no idea what she could have been bred to.


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

*Re: Moving organs?*

she is probably a double rex which is not true hairless. no lactation issues in double rex.

thankfully hairless rats have yet to wind up in the mainstream pet stores. :-\

good luck with the babies, hope it's a small litter.


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Moving organs?*

Thats good and thanks. All three of my girls are getting in tiffs now, though, with one another. They've never fought or did anything like this before till tonight it seems. Could this be due to the pregnant female? Is she becoming more aggressive due to being very close to giving birth?


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

*Re: Moving organs?*

yes... moms can get very hormonal aggressive, and with humans too. be careful you don't get nipped when handling her. that is exactly why nursing mothers need to be separated from the others... that overprotectiveness can wind up in a tug of war with one of the babies getting hurt or killed.  happens more often than it should, because people insist the other females are "helping mom out".


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Moving organs?*

Do you have a large plastic tote container with tall walls? You can use this as a bin cage or temp cage. She will need to give birth on quality white paper towels, and/or fleece, carefresh. no regular towels or fabric with strings, nothing hard or sharp on naked newborn skin. I give my mom's a cage, food, water (I prefer a waterbottle so no babies can drown), and nesting material. Soft toys, nothing wooden they can chew, no ramps, levels or hammocks...she will soon be very occupied caring for her eepers.

Mom needs lot of high quality food, with more proteins like eggs, fish or chicken. Lots of veggies, I use baby cereal and Ensure to supplement her diet as well.

The babies will be born soon...within 12-18 hours of when they get really active in mom's belly. Once they are born watch for milk bellies in the first 4 hours or so. Its a whitish/yellowish band across their bellies and up their sides. It indicates they are nursing. Do not be surprised if there's 1 smaller, weaker pup who passes within 24 hours, these poor runts often do. If you see mom "eating" the babies, she's not...she's following an instinct to clean up the already dead bodies so predators cannot be attracted to her helpless living family.

Relax, let her do her stuff and try not to bother her every 10 mins LOLOL.

Do you have a good rat vet if there are birthing complications though?


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Moving organs?*

I woke up to squeaking this morning. As far as I can tell, she only had four pups. I removed the two other females because the one I originally thought was pregnant was "hiding" two of the pups. Mable (who gave birth) is active. She's currently built her nest within the little rat house though I may remove it so I can supervise her and her babies better.

Are hard-boiled eggs good?

I will definitely start to supplement her diet.

I hope they all survive though. They all seem generally the same size. Hopefully Mable knows what shes doing lol. We had discussed where to take them (a vet specifically for small animals) but nothing too specific.


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Moving organs?*

I didn't see anything about double-posting though feel free to correct me if thats against the rules.

My dad's fiance Kirsten called the pet store. They offered use something like rat food in exchange for giving them these pups (they apparently have a nursing mother who can take them, I guess) but I'm not sure. To be honest, I'm almost insulted by this. They sold us a pregnant rat and now they're offering to take the pups and give us _food_. They didn't even suggest great food to begin with when we bought the rats besides suggesting pine bedding which isn't good for them. I don't know what to do really. . . I don't want to take Mable's babies away from her. I guess I can wait until they're six weeks to make a decision as the pet store (I think) will still take them at that age. I was contemplating taking them to the SPCA when they come of age as well. I'm not sure if I can find homes for them on my own. Sadly (and embarrassingly) I don't exactly have a huge circle of friends to ask (most of my friends don't even live in the same state as I do) but I'll try. Sorry if this off-topic, I just don't know what to do with these guys! I don't want to make a decision that will end up being negative. I'll post pics of the little guys when I get the chance.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Moving organs?*

Please don't. I would guess they are going to sell those pups as pinkies for herps.  

Rehoming babies is the best option, and such a tiny litter would be easy, OR you could keep them. Enjoy this experience, its something we don't look for and don't want again, but it is an amazing experience if you have to go through it.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

*Re: Moving organs?*

I would keep them, I had 1 litter in my time. And all the babies are still with me, it was stressful and at the time I was so not ready for 15 rats but having the experience of raising them from babies was a good experience.

If you can't keep them, you can find a rescue to help you, freinds who might want a pair of rats. Since it's only 4 you are very lucky lol, my girl had 12.


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Moving organs?*

I would like to keep them maybe, but we're just in a two bedroom apartment and so space isn't exactly infinite lol. If I keep these and Lil Gogo (my rat) is in fact pregnant, her pups will have to be taken to a rescue or something. She is much larger than Mable was and I'm afraid this litter is going to be much larger than this one.

I feel lucky lol. Well, I'm off to the pet store to purchase supplies for these guys.


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Moving organs?*

Heres Mable from this morning:









And just a few minutes ago:









They all seem healthy and have milk bands so its so far so good.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Moving organs?*

Do they all have dark eyes? If you cannot see eyes then they will be ruby or pink-eyed.


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Moving organs?*



lilspaz68 said:


> Do they all have dark eyes? If you cannot see eyes then they will be ruby or pink-eyed.


Yes, I do believe that they all have dark eyes.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Moving organs?*



littlemissgogo said:


> lilspaz68 said:
> 
> 
> > Do they all have dark eyes? If you cannot see eyes then they will be ruby or pink-eyed.
> ...


So if your momma is a double rex, and the male was a rex you could have a whole little of nakie babies. If mom is a double rex and she bred with a standard coat male, you will have a pile of standard and rex babies, but no nakies


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Moving organs?*



lilspaz68 said:


> So if your momma is a double rex, and the male was a rex you could have a whole little of nakie babies. If mom is a double rex and she bred with a standard coat male, you will have a pile of standard and rex babies, but no nakies


Ah, thanks for the info! I wonder which they will be.
I can't wait to see how they turn out though!<3 I was so nervous over this but I'm happy and excited about it too lol.


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Moving organs?*

I know, I'm such a double-posting maniac lol.

I was checking on Mable & her pups and noticed some discoloration on the paper towel she had shredded and used for her new nest when I moved her and her babies into their new cage. It looked like dried blood and I checked to make sure it wasn't just part of the pattern or something on the paper towels. Is that a sign for anything? I was a little alarmed but it wasn't that much, just a spot and a speck. Is that normal or should I be worried? She had the pups yesterday morning.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Moving organs?*



littlemissgogo said:


> I know, I'm such a double-posting maniac lol.
> 
> I was checking on Mable & her pups and noticed some discoloration on the paper towel she had shredded and used for her new nest when I moved her and her babies into their new cage. It looked like dried blood and I checked to make sure it wasn't just part of the pattern or something on the paper towels. Is that a sign for anything? I was a little alarmed but it wasn't that much, just a spot and a speck. Is that normal or should I be worried? She had the pups yesterday morning.


Just keep an eye out for more. It could just be a little porphyrin, rather than vaginal blood. Is she acting well?


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Moving organs?*

Yes, she's been rather normal. Shes eating, drinking, nursing her pups. She seemed pleased when Kirsten held her this evening but went back to her motherly duties as soon as we put her in. We didn't see any blood on her when we took her out.

edit; I removed the "bloody" bits to see if any more show up. Also, I believe one of the pups doesn't have dark eyes so I suspect this little guy might be the only ruby/pink-eyed out of the bunch.


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

*Re: Moving organs?*

Good, just definitely keep an eye on her.

As to the rehoming thing, it doesn't just have to be a shelter or friends, this site has an adoption forum, as do other rat forums. I'd highly suggest advertising them there, just be sure to screen them well by asking about their care, for vet references, etc. If you need help with what to ask I can help.

Can't wait to see what the bubs turn out to look like. I love red and ruby eyes ;D


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Moving organs?*

Definitely. We're going to check her every so often to make sure she isn't bleeding and cleaning herself up before we notice.

Thanks! I'll definitely post there when things settle down. I'm not as worried about these little guys as I am about Gogo. I suspect her litter will be much larger.

One's back has already darkened, so I suspect these little guys will in fact have fur so no nakies I think.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Moving organs?*



littlemissgogo said:


> Definitely. We're going to check her every so often to make sure she isn't bleeding and cleaning herself up before we notice.
> 
> Thanks! I'll definitely post there when things settle down. I'm not as worried about these little guys as I am about Gogo. I suspect her litter will be much larger.
> 
> One's back has already darkened, so I suspect these little guys will in fact have fur so no nakies I think.


nakies have pigment anyways...so you might have berks or a hoodie starting up


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

*Re: Moving organs?*

True! I didn't think of that. Who knows. I guess we'll see in the coming days/weeks.


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

Mable nursing her babies (and you can see the little guy who doesn't have dark eyes!):



























The three dark-eyed ones are getting dark backs though the light-eyed one is still pink as ever. I wonder how they will turn out!


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

On an added note, I'm a little worried about some of pups. I've read about lethal "high-white" markings and two of these guys I think have blazes based on the black markings they've developed. I'd really be unhappy if these guys ended up with Megacolon. Mable doesn't have it, but who knows about what she bred to. I'll probably post some individual pictures of these guys in a few days.


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## jadeangel (Jan 7, 2009)

Congratulations on all the cuties! I had an oops litter once, and while it was a fun experience, I'll definitely leave breeding, to those who are more experienced. I'm glad I was able to experience it though xD

Definitely post some individual pictures in a couple of days. Their colors will definitely be showing through then, and there are definitely some lovely people on here who can help identify colors and markings.


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

Okay, here are individual pictures. . . Bad quality but my camera is just fail at taking nice pictures of small things.

Number oneee, the light-eyed pink pup:


















better lighting, but this one is a little wiggleworm.









Group pics of dark pups:
















The middle pup is the one I worry about. . . Not sure about the other two ones.

This guy kinda looks like he was a white marking on his head, but its very thin if it even exists.

















Other pup:

















Blazed pup:

















Any help with colors and markings appreciated! My guesses are berkshire and/or varieberk for these dark pups.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Wait a bit longer the coat will come in soon, don't worry about MC yet, your blazed pup looks nice and healthy so far. Its not a given they will get MC, you just have to be aware of the possibility.


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

Does anyone know if theres a particular word for such a thin white marking on that one boy? I find it interesting.
The "crack" boy also has curly whiskers unlike his brothers and sister.



















What would be this boy's color? Is it fawn or beige or something like that?

I didn't take pictures of the girl, but she is doing very well. Soft as a cloud and very dark so I think she'll come out black.


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

The thin line is called a lightning blaze.

He looks beige to me. Very cute rats so hopefully they should be easier to rehome.


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

smesyna said:


> The thin line is called a lightning blaze.
> 
> He looks beige to me. Very cute rats so hopefully they should be easier to rehome.


Thanks!  I wasn't sure if it was too thin to be a blaze or not.

Me, too! Any girls should be able to find homes but hopefully the boys will find someone, too.


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## jadeangel (Jan 7, 2009)

I love the lightning blaze markings on ratties. It's definitely one of my favorite markings that they can have and I can't figure out why, especially since I've never actually had one with one.


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## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

If I got one, its corny, but I would name him Harry Potter. lol


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

Yeah, I think they're sort of unique. 



smesyna said:


> If I got one, its corny, but I would name him Harry Potter. lol


Haha! Thats what Mable's owner suggested, too!


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## littlemissgogo (Jun 3, 2011)

Just a little update;

These guys have started to open their eyes! They turned two weeks old yesterday. So far they all seem to be doing very well. I've named the girl we're keeping Rapunzel.


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