# Pros and Cons of feeder rats, as pets.



## Mom2Chewbacca_and_Jaqotay (Jan 3, 2010)

I'm planning on getting a new rat in the near future, and I most likely cannot go to a breeder, so i will either get mine from the pound, a rescue, or a pet store. :-\
Anyways we went to two petstores today (my sister is looking for a job) and I almost can't help looking at the rats. And one we went to had feeders. Of course I feel horrible for them, so I wondered what the pros and cons were.
I've heard they don't live as long because they're breed as feeders, and not expected to live long anyway. And that they are usually more aggressive. If I did get a feeder I think I would quarantine it longer, would that be necessary?


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## TamSmith (Mar 1, 2010)

I think a normal QT would be fine. But even if they come to you healthy, they will likely get some kind of illness down the line. All of my rats have been rescues and likely came from pet stores and they all have had some kind of serious illness. I have lost many of my rats before they turned 2 due to some kind of horrible illness they have had. I just lost my girl Lily to a pituitary tumor. She just turned 2 last month. She has been the longest living rat I've had. Plus as you can imagine, my vet bills are sky high because of all the tumors and such. The vet bills do not compare to the amount of heartbreak I go through watching all of my beloved rats die such horrible deaths.

I have only had one agressive girl (she came from the animal shelter) and she is recovering from a tumor removal/spay so hopefully the spay will calm her down and I can move everyone into the same cage again. She's not that bad. She just won't let any new rats move in with her and Sadie. I have a few that are really skittish but they still love me and I've learned how to work around their fears and keep them happy.

If you go to a rescue, it is likely the rat will still be originally from a pet store so you'll still have the same problems. The difference is that instead of supporting a rat mill or back yard breeder and giving them more money to continue breeding poor quality rats, you'll be saving the life of the rat you take home and making room for another to take its place at the rescue. 

I think you are more likely to get a friendly rat from a rescue since they have been pets and the rescue people usually do what they can to socialize them. My Charlie is my newest rescue and when they put him in my hands, he started giving me tons of kisses and I knew he was the one I would be taking home.

I've always gone to rescues over any kind of pet store but I think from now on I'll be going to breeders because I can't handle the pain anymore. I hope I find a good breeder and I can go a while without any major illnesses. Knowing me though, I'll probably always rescue when I have cage space because I'm a sucker for rats in need of forever homes haha


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## Mom2Chewbacca_and_Jaqotay (Jan 3, 2010)

All of my guys have come from Petsmart, and yes I know I shouldn't. But I have never actually been in petsmart looking for a rat, I go in, and tell myself "Don't get any, it wont be worth it" then I look at them and their little eys are pleading and I can't help myself :-\ 
My first guy lived the longest (so far) I've only had 4 to date 2 are still here. Chewbacca (my first) lived for 4 1/2 years. And El who I lost recently was only 10 months old :'(
I figure that if you don't buy the rat from the petstore, somebody else will right? idk It seems so sad to just leave them there... And I really feel so awful for the ones that are "feeders" I know I can't save them all, but it helps to save one or two for me. But I'm still not sure if it's actually worth it, it's a diffacult decision for me.


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## catsandscales (Oct 21, 2010)

I kind of have a hard time believing that breeder rats are guaranteed to live longer... isn't there always a chance of illness? I understand that you can breed overall healthier animals, but as we see in the dog world, well-bred doesn't always mean healthy. =P But maybe dogs are a bad comparison. I'm not a breeder, I don't claim to be an expert. Just speculation. =)


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

In theory a breeders rat should live longer than a feeder breeder yes.... as they have been bred with health in mind, and thats an important factor of longevity. Of course this doesn't mean that the rat isn't capable of getting ill - there are other factors which will effect them as well such as nutrition, habitat, excersize, quarantine, stress etc.. even sometimes unknown recessive genes. A breeder would be lying if they said they didn't have any issues in their lines, but generally the issues are minor and you can see how that breeder is improving (and you should see improvement in their health records as well). It also gives you a heads up of what to expect and general lifespan. The info can be crucial, with feeder breeders for example you don't know if there are any heart issues in the line... then you have your beloved pet neutered/spayed and they die under anesthetic because you didn't know of their condition. :-\ 

I used to rescue, but I couldn't take the heart break... their lifespans were averaging out to just 14 months. I was constantly have tumors removed, only to have them pop up bigger than before just a few days after surgery. I was cleaning up feeder breeders/pets stores mess when they decided their snake food, even though unhealthy, were super sweet and would make good pets. And the majority were friendly after some good TLC... but it was too much to watch the suffering those rats had to go through - they deserved so much better.


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## Elizabethm (Sep 10, 2010)

a few of my friends majoring in veterinary medicine have rats. one in particular catches my interest. he owns 6 rats all were feeder/ petstore rat (3 hairless, 3 standards). his 3 hairless rats are now 6 years old and his standard rats are between 3-4 years old. he uses a humidifer and an air purifier and uses ferret cages in his rat room and his rats have rarely gotten sick. personally i think respritory and most other issues are caused by whatever is in our air. breeder rats may just be bred to have a higher tolerance to sickness than petstore/feeder.

also people who claim cancer and tumors can be bred out of rat lines does not know what they are talking about. sure it is the genes of some rat family lines but cancer is cause by a flaw when cells multiply wrong and tumors are mainly caused by hormones that run rampad and also are caused by damaged cells that continue to produce damaged cells


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## kissmyhorse (Nov 4, 2010)

Pros and Cons? I wasnt aware that there were any pros to a feeder/petstore rat :-\ With wht has been said here I don't think theres much more I can add. It's really just a big mess of heartbreak and supporting a bad cause all rolled into one.


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## Mom2Chewbacca_and_Jaqotay (Jan 3, 2010)

I really want to help one or two of the poor guys. And yes they do deserve so much better. My mother held one today when we went (I didn't because it's hard enough to leave them behind just looking at them if I'd held her I dunno if I could have left her. And I can't even have females) And she was terrified but she was really sweet as well. She just wanted to curl up in her arms and get away from everything. :'( But I don't know how much more I can handle in the sickness/death department because it's been a really rough year for me and my family. But as you said a rat I get from a good breeder could pass quickly as well. 
I think the pros might outweigh the cons honestly. They deserve happiness like any other rat, and I could provide happiness and safety for however long they were here with me....


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Short term, you could argue your technically saving them. You can give them a good life, show them happiness, good food, proper bedding. Lets say you can afford their vet bills and your willing to take the heartbreak and just enjoy what time you have with them.... 

But whilst all that is happening, their adoption fee has gone towards buying 5 or 6 of their siblings. (As mom most likely has had another 2/3 litters back to back by now - she'll prob only survive 2/3 more then her suffering can be over too) Your interest in the rats in the store tells the pet store there is demand, they contact their feeder breeder asking for prettier colors. The feeder breeder adds some pretty blazes and markings.

Your rats passed and you decide 'hey lets not rescue some more' .... so you go to the same place to save another few lucky ones. The rats you get are likely related to your first somehow. Except now they have been inbred for another 4/5 generations so the bad traits are even stronger. You get less and less time with these rats, they suffer a little bit more than the last ones. 

Someone types in 'pros and cons of feeder breeders' to google and this thread comes up two years from now. They see the pretty pictures of your blaze rats and you say they are sweet and healthy. Because they seemed healthy when you got them... then at 4 months. So that person figures why not... and get themselves a few. Pet store see even more demand - these pretty blaze ratties are flying off the shelves and the people return within a year for more. At 10 months one of your rats get Megacolon and you have to have him/her put to sleep. Your remaining rat needs a new buddy... you go back to the store as you can't resist those little faces that need 'rescuing'. You seen a gorgeous husky rat (you figure new color must mean different lines.. maybe you'll have better luck with this little one) You take him home. But the pet store doesn't quarantine and their feeder breeder is shady... you bring home a little more than you bargained for.. a virus that claims both of your rats.

Do you need to get to this point before you stop supplying the pet stores with demand and a reason for them to create even 1 or 2 more rats for you?

The circle continues. It takes a lot from my self to not just tell you to go back and rescue them all. But I've seen first hand the circle take its cycle too many times now :'(


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## Mom2Chewbacca_and_Jaqotay (Jan 3, 2010)

I'm fairly sure I'll never go near the feeders again.... But I see what you mean. It's hard, but I do understand... A breeder is most likely not an option for me, but I do have a cousin who gets rats and then gives them away 2 weeks later all the time.... Maybe I could get one from him. And yes I've said things to him/ his mother and whatnot, but he's ignorant and nothing I say seems to help him learn or even care. 
If not I'll probably look at rescues/pounds in my area.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Elizabethm said:


> a few of my friends majoring in veterinary medicine have rats. one in particular catches my interest. he owns 6 rats all were feeder/ petstore rat (3 hairless, 3 standards). his 3 hairless rats are now 6 years old and his standard rats are between 3-4 years old. he uses a humidifer and an air purifier and uses ferret cages in his rat room and his rats have rarely gotten sick. personally i think respritory and most other issues are caused by whatever is in our air. breeder rats may just be bred to have a higher tolerance to sickness than petstore/feeder.
> 
> also people who claim cancer and tumors can be bred out of rat lines does not know what they are talking about. sure it is the genes of some rat family lines but cancer is cause by a flaw when cells multiply wrong and tumors are mainly caused by hormones that run rampad and also are caused by damaged cells that continue to produce damaged cells


Your friend is lying about his hairless rat's ages. The Guiness book of records for longest-living pet rat is 7 years...

And yes cancer is genetic, and can be gradually bred out of lines...or least there will be less incidence of it. Breeders are always working towards a stronger immune system, and less tumours/cancer in their lines or at least much later on in life. Those are the main health goals of a good breeder.

And no, its not the air that makes the rats sick. I rescue, others take in the same rats from the bigger rescues (we have to divvy them out to save them all) they almost always have the same health issues no matter where they are and how they are cared for overall. Get the same symptoms, illnesses and often die similarly. It sucks.


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## Kiko (Sep 18, 2009)

Mm, I agree.
I use a powerful air purifier. And to be honest? it's for me not them, I live in my rat room and with the size of the room, the amount of rats, and my uber sensitive sense of smell? I gotta have something to help the 'too many things breathing in here' odor 

I knew 1 girl who had a single rat live to 6, it was pure luck and she was amazed everyday. If multiple rats are living to 6 in the same group only 2 things come to mind. The person is lying, or those are genetic super rats because thats the equivalent of 3 people living to 200.


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## TamSmith (Mar 1, 2010)

Kiko said:


> Mm, I agree.
> I use a powerful air purifier. And to be honest? it's for me not them, I live in my rat room and with the size of the room, the amount of rats, and my uber sensitive sense of smell? I gotta have something to help the 'too many things breathing in here' odor
> 
> I knew 1 girl who had a single rat live to 6, it was pure luck and she was amazed everyday. If multiple rats are living to 6 in the same group only 2 things come to mind. The person is lying, or those are genetic super rats because thats the equivalent of 3 people living to 200.


My friend who rescues has had quite a few rats living to 6 at least. We don't know how old they were when they came to her but I've known her for a long time and I've always been friends with her rats so I've seen them live to at least 6. BUT they are all rescued wild rats she rehabilitates. I don't know if wild and domestic makes a difference but she has definitely had at least 3 live to 6 over the years. I doubt they were all from the same line because they were wild and they come to her from random parts of the city. 

EDIT: I wanted to add that she isn't just picking up wild rats and making them pets. They come to her from animal control because they are hurt and she rehabilitates them and if they have been with her past a certain amount of time, they cannot be released anymore and she keeps them.


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## Elizabethm (Sep 10, 2010)

i have met his rats numerous times. he has gotten all his rats between the ages of 6 months and 1 year old as his whole purpose was to test that habitat and airborn bacteria, dust and pollen were major factors in the lifespan of his rats. thanks to the humidifyers and air purifyers his rats have lived longer than most peoples. he did want a couple of mine but they are still to young for what he is currently looking for right now


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Longevity is about so much more than just habitat and air born bacteria. I have a humidifier and air purifier. My rats cages are immaculate, I have 3 boys in a single FN, 3 boys in a large wooden cage (that the cage calculator says can hold 12), 2 adult females and 3 young baby girls in a single FN.

I had the same set up (minus the FN) when I had rescues and like lilspaz said regardless of care and TLC... if the genes are bad they just don't have the immunity they should. I'd be willing to bet your friends rat didn't live anywhere near 3/4 years old. Sorry but I'll believe it when I see it. If hes really having these amazing break through don't you think it would be documented, or the methods shared? :-\ And these 'break through' would not be consistent by just selecting any old rat and sticking it in a certain habitat with purified air. If hes so amazing, why don't you get advice of him, instead of all us? Because you never listen to anything we say, I just don't see the point in replying to you anymore. And FYI your vets a retard... I fail to see how any vet would prescribe an over the counter bacterial eye drops for an eye like that. ???


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## TamSmith (Mar 1, 2010)

ema-leigh said:


> Longevity is about so much more than just habitat and air born bacteria. I have a humidifier and air purifier. My rats cages are immaculate, I have 3 boys in a single FN, 3 boys in a large wooden cage (that the cage calculator says can hold 12), 2 adult females and 3 young baby girls in a single FN.
> 
> I had the same set up (minus the FN) when I had rescues and like lilspaz said regardless of care and TLC... if the genes are bad they just don't have the immunity they should. I'd be willing to bet your friends rat didn't live anywhere near 3/4 years old. Sorry but I'll believe it when I see it. If hes really having these amazing break through don't you think it would be documented, or the methods shared? :-\ And these 'break through' would not be consistent by just selecting any old rat and sticking it in a certain habitat with purified air. If hes so amazing, why don't you get advice of him, instead of all us? Because you never listen to anything we say, I just don't see the point in replying to you anymore. And FYI your vets a retard... I fail to see how any vet would prescribe an over the counter bacterial eye drops for an eye like that. ???


I very much agree with you. I have 2 females and one male in one level of a CN and 2 females in the other level. I have an air purifier and humidifier in my room. I keep the cages very clean and all of them are litter trained so they have only a small box and I try to make sure it's as dust free as possible. All but one of my rats has had major respiratory problems at some point. It is because they have been poorly bred and don't have strong immune systems 

Even if his rats did live so long, you can't pin it on a single thing. Correlation does not equal causation. That was not a proper study. There are so many variables that could change things.

Even though I do everything I can to keep my rats happy and healthy, I have only had one that lived past 2. Once again, that is why I can't let myself rescue anymore. It's too much heartbreak. I need to go to a breeder from now on so I have more of a chance of having healthy rats with strong immune systems.


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## Elizabethm (Sep 10, 2010)

i do ask him thats why i dont belive all you. i ask more questions when it comes to accidental litter because he cant help me with that. hes never had a litter. hes also a vet major with a few years actually under his belt so im sure that also helps with keeping his rats healthy.

im not saying you guys are completely wrong im just saying that you cant everything about what you are claiming. take TAZ's eye. GLUACOMA (sorry if i spelled it wrong) went to a vet and it totally was that. it was some other infection caused by a cornial abrasion


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## kissmyhorse (Nov 4, 2010)

If you don't wan tto accept the advice of the members here, then why do you stay? You obviousy do not listen to a single thing that people have said to you and you counteract every claim that others state. If you have a friend who has been through vet school and is currently in the field then I can not see reason for him to not know the basics of breeding. I was in vet scool. They cover reproduction, the stages of fetal deveopment ad the stages from birth until death in the first year. It's pactically veterinary kindergarden. I am begining to feel that your oh-so-great friend does not exist. If he did, then he should be more than capable of answering a few simple questions regarding your accidental litter.


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## Elizabethm (Sep 10, 2010)

i said he has never had or raised a litter of rats himself. people on here have at some point so i take their advise on that matter


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## kissmyhorse (Nov 4, 2010)

Why? Just because someone has raised a litter or has rats does not mean they do it right. If you had someone with veterinary knowledge, I dont see why you would be asking other members for assistance so often.


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## ema-leigh (Jan 24, 2010)

Also we never said Taz had Glaucoma for sure and it couldn't possibly be anything else.. just thats what it looked like from the one photo we had seen. Which in that one photo, yeah it did look like. You said there was no damage on the eye so I thought it was more likely from the inside than the out. We only have to go on the info you give us.. which at times is extremely contradicting. We also said only a vet can tell you for sure, we may have experience keeping them but we are no means a substitute for a vet.


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