# When can I put a mother doe and pups back with other rats?



## Daun (Feb 9, 2016)

These two pups are now 7 days, and their mother is still with them alone in a maternity bin. I'm worried she's bored or misses the other does. When would it be safe to put her and her pups back in with the other does? 

I read does can sometimes rip pups apart, but that might just be two does with current litters. I'm not sure.

Would it be a better idea to let her raise them a bit more alone, and then put them in the doe bin? Or will they be safe going now?


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

I wouldn't put the pups with your other does before they are at least 8 weeks old. I don't believe they are safe with other rats now. Depending on how small your bin is, you could move the mom and her babies to another cage once the babies are 3 weeks old. It would need to be a cage with bars that wouldn't allow them to escape of course or a bigger bin cage, or you could add a second level to your bin cage...I don't think your rat is bored with her babies. You can still let her play with her friend(s) during free range time. Are both babies females? If not you will need to separate them at 5 weeks.


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## Daun (Feb 9, 2016)

Gribouilli said:


> I wouldn't put the pups with your other does before they are at least 8 weeks old. I don't believe they are safe with other rats now. Depending on how small your bin is, you could move the mom and her babies to another cage once the babies are 3 weeks old. It would need to be a cage with bars that wouldn't allow them to escape of course or a bigger bin cage, or you could add a second level to your bin cage...I don't think your rat is bored with her babies. You can still let her play with her friend(s) during free range time. Are both babies females? If not you will need to separate them at 5 weeks.


They don't have free range time, but thank you for the information.

-snip-

I obtained a pregnant doe with 10 other rats of various ages, stuffed into a 5gallon tank. I saw them on CL and had to rescue them, because I run a shelter in Central Oregon. The day after bringing them home she gave birth to three pups, one already dead. Whether this was on purpose or not, I am doing a fantastic time getting the mother healthy while keeping them in a calm and stress free environment. The only thing I was looking for in making this thread was whether or not it would be beneficial to put the mother back with her friends. 

I have done research, I just haven't been able to figure out what I should do in this specific circumstance. So the next time you read a post and want to share with everyone how smart and important you think you are, consider that you don't know everything.

Thanks for the warm welcome to the forum.


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## Pixxiies (Jan 25, 2016)

While I'm not much help with the subject matter at hand, I just wanted to say that those pups are beautiful. I haven't seen many pictures of newborns but the ones that you posted are awesome.

I'm sorry about the hard welcome to the forum. Thank you for what you do for these animals.


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## Daun (Feb 9, 2016)

Pixxiies said:


> While I'm not much help with the subject matter at hand, I just wanted to say that those pups are beautiful. I haven't seen many pictures of newborns but the ones that you posted are awesome.
> 
> I'm sorry about the hard welcome to the forum. Thank you for what you do for these animals.


They are really adorable, huh? They're all soft and peach fuzzy!
Here is some with their mother, who got nicknamed Butterscotch:















She's doing a great job, very protective. And they're getting so big, so no lack of milk issues here. I was worried, since they were all underweight and dehydrated when I got them, that she wouldn't be able to produce. But she's doing great.

It's alright, we can all learn something from it. Thank you for the welcome!


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## Pixxiies (Jan 25, 2016)

They definitely are! And wow! Momma is beautiful! Butterscotch is a very fitting name. And she seems really big but maybe its just the scale. 
Hopefully, you're able to see some progress with these rats becoming more tolerant of handling over the next few weeks.
They're really amazing animals.


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## Daun (Feb 9, 2016)

Pixxiies said:


> They definitely are! And wow! Momma is beautiful! Butterscotch is a very fitting name. And she seems really big but maybe its just the scale.
> Hopefully, you're able to see some progress with these rats becoming more tolerant of handling over the next few weeks.
> They're really amazing animals.


She's fattened up a LOT since she's been here, they all have. The smaller rats were all underweight and all of them were dehydrated - as bad a situation as it was, I laughed a bit at the fact that I had to pull out a metal dish we use for larger animals, because they were piling on top of each other to get to the water. 

I'm trying to let them have as much peace as possible, but every few hours i bring them small treats (fruits/nuts and seeds/unsalted tortilla chips/etc) and offer it to them. I figure since they smell me, and then get some yummy food, they might start associating me with that. Hopefully that will make it easier.

I've been handling the two babies (one male one female) since they were three days old for a few minutes each day, hoping that they will grow up much more used to people, and will make great adoption candidates. 

Here's a few more of Butterscotch and the babies the morning she gave birth:



























Butterscotch is in a 5 gallon holding container, the apple piece was about 1/2 x 1/2 inch. She's a small-medium rat, compared to what I've seen.

Normally I would have let them be until a few days after, but we still had to sex and tag ID all the rats. We decided to snap a few of the babies since we've never seen baby rats before!


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## Kelsbels (Aug 12, 2015)

This is no easy task! Thank you for taking these rats in and giving them a loving environment.


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## kksrats (Jul 25, 2014)

My goodness, they look like they'll be a beautiful blue when their hair comes in...or black depending on the lighting lol gotta hate color judgement over the internet. Anywho...you're a kind soul for rescuing those poor rats  Babies are wonderful, but nursing moms tend to get a little bored with being stuck with them 24/7. If it's possible to let her interact with some of the does she was brought in with for a little while each day, that would probably help. While rats do tend to community nest fairly well, you never know with some does and you could lose your two little ones to a jealous doe. I will usually start very limited introductions (letting older rats sniff younger rats) when the pups are close to weaning (around 4 weeks). It's important to know that older rats can and will snatch and drag young rats, so do this carefully. Obviously you'll want to introduce the male pup to other males before you have to separate him from mom and males tend to be more accepting of young males than females are of young females, so I encourage you to introduce them, but still use caution as with all introductions. Wishing you the best


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## BlackoutCat (Jan 23, 2016)

Goodness she's a tiny girl from what I can tell! I'm so used to my boys now that I forgot how little girls can be. Looks like she's a real sweetheart and good (first time?) momma. 

I have no experience with litters myself but as far as I've read if she doesn't see her cagemates while she's raising the pups she may need to go through an introduction process to be reintegrated into the group. Perhaps you could set up a few free range sessions to give her some time with her friends? Just a thought. Anyway good luck, wishing you, butterscotch and babies well!


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## JAnimal (Jul 23, 2014)

Good job. If you plan on adopting the babies out then try on luring the mom away from the babies with food and handling them so that they become used to people.


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## mis.kay (May 29, 2015)

They are very adorable Daun. And I praise you for rescuing them all. A lot of people wouldn't have taken that burden. 

I would like to mention that many people on the site when they respond to a question, they will offer additional advice. Especially when it comes to litters. And it is not them trying to sound smart, or more important. It's easy to get offended especially if you already know what they are telling you but I promise they mean no offense by it. I hope that doesn't deter you from asking questions in the future, and I hope everything goes well with Butterscotch and the babies.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

mis.kay said:


> They are very adorable Daun. And I praise you for rescuing them all. A lot of people wouldn't have taken that burden. I would like to mention that many people on the site when they respond to a question, they will offer additional advice. Especially when it comes to litters. And it is not them trying to sound smart, or more important. It's easy to get offended especially if you already know what they are telling you but I promise they mean no offense by it. I hope that doesn't deter you from asking questions in the future, and I hope everything goes well with Butterscotch and the babies.


True. Also hundreds (thousands?) of people will be reading this thread over the years through a search on Google/other search engines, so that is why more info is always better


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