# A Bird Cage?



## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

Greetings. I had just bought a cage today (Here is a pic: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4313515 ) and I had got a bird cage cause I thought that would work well for me. I was thinking of removing the grill, cutting a few holes in it, using cable ties, Im planning to reattach it higher up into the cage as a platform, covering the grate with fleece, and using bird ropes and ladders as ramps. My question is, will this work for two male rats? Im not used to housing male animals together after my two male hamsters killed eachother and Im just worried if this will be too small for the both of them.


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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

It looks very small for rats ..


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## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

Its only temporary, until they get a stock of better cages.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

I thought you were going to wait till the Novemeber expo? Anyways it would be too small for long term, but I guess for a few weeks while they are till babies it would be ok.

What are you planning on for long term? Critter nation, Super Pet cages, and Martins are recommended (With Martin cages Make sure to request a pull out pan without wire above it, it will make cleaning a lot easier). I have a rat manor, and While I do love it, its some what hard to clean, but I can get over that easily.


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## RatzRUs (Feb 5, 2012)

Sadly we sell these in our store and it's very small.....you could also Get this one until you can figure out which one you want too get http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004GASVAQ...e=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B004GASVAQ I own the feisty ferret Pervue cage it's an amazing cage and holds my four rats comfortably and it's cheaper then the ferret nation and critter nation ,but if you get baby rats they can squeeze though the bars,but whatever you think is best


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## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

OK, I KNOW its small, I was planning on using it as a HOSPITALIZATION cage or if they needed to be seperated for whatever reason or their cage broke or whatever, I had an extra cage on hand. I bought it right now because I figured its better to get it now than later.

I am planning on building a c&c cage (I know people use them for guinea pigs and I thought it may be a good idea. HUGE cage for $50 isnt a bad deal and I could design it however I want. I am a little worried about the bar spacing so right now this idea is ify) for them as a PERNAMENT home, and again, this cage is NOT going to be their forever home. Just if they need to be seperated or their cage breaks (Never could go wrong with spare cages).


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## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

Never mind, I found a soloution for the c&c cages, cable ties and a WHOLE lot of hardware cloths... Oh and before any one says anything about this, I WILL be lining the floor and ramps in this cage with fleece bedding.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Hey that was actually my Idea, well ok I've been thinking about it for about a year now. My plan was to make a 2 grid, by 2 grid, by 2 grid high cage (and if it worked add on another level, so 3 grids high). Have One main level that is three grids in an L shape for the main floor, and just hang up a lot of hammocks. I was also going to instead of having Coroplast on the ground have just a blanket of fleece since my guys are litter box trained. Let me know how it goes. I'm still very interested in doing it, since I like to build stuff. Btw the bar spacing on the Grids is 1.5 inches. My boys couldn't get through it since they are over a year old, but adult females and younger males can. Not sure if it would work but you might be able to get a soldering Iron to connect the Hardware cloth to the grids instead of having to use Cable ties.

Here are just some examples for help. (The first one uses the Old kind of grids. They no longer make them) If you go to the Guinea pig forum you can see pictures of other C&C rat cages, but almost all of them use the old grids (There was a mouse cage though that uses the grids you find in the store covered in 1/4 mesh).

http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?29102-the-homemade-quot-Rat-Nation-quot

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9U7KVqHggw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9U7KVqHggw

If[/URL] you like building stuff you Can find a company that will sell you Powder coated Mesh that is 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch (or 1/2 inch by 1 inch) and make a cage with a pull out pan. It would be a little bit harder (and maybe more expensive) but you wouldn't have to worry about covering anything with wire mesh. Just an idea. Though just know with My findings, and what I did, it will actually cost you about $120 to $140 to build a rat proof C&C cage. (More or less depending on how much stuff cost in your area, plus tax). So its not going to be $50 unless you are somehow able to find the old style grids Or already have them.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Oh, and also this is a website that you might want to consider getting your grids from. They also sell Accesories for the grids like Traiangles so you can make corner shelves. Also you wouldn't have to pay for the connectors. Worth considering, not sure how much Shipping is though.

http://www.storesupply.com/pc-12196-518-14-x-14-black-mini-grid-panel-30103.aspx


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## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

Thanks, and the $50 was just a guess based on how much it cost my cousin to build her rabbit a c&c cage (I know, completely different animals). I really do like the ideas for two reasons: 
1. I like the cost:size ratios. I can find smaller cages that are about the same price and those cages are made of cheap materials and have wire floorings. 
2. I love to be creative (Not really all into building... Tried to make a bird house once when I was 7 and it turned out to be random pieces of wood slapped together with crooked nails which I had called , "A birdie mansion") and this is a great outlet for me and I have seen some really amazing looking c&c cages out there. 



Oh and an off-topic question: I was searching the local petstores and online for something that DOESNT have corn or alfha hay as the first three ingredients (And perferably not at all), but unfortunatly I was unsuccessful. So, I was wondering if I can make the food by hand (Like salads I guess is what im trying to say) instead of buying this $15 food that has items that can have the potential to do harm to a rat. I did it all the time when I had sugar gliders and I was just wondering if this would be an option with rats.


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## unlikelyfather (Sep 11, 2012)

Personally you'll hear a lot of people saying that rats will escape a C&C. They climb, they wedge themselves through spaces, and do things that guinea pigs won't do. Guinea pigs don't often try to test the limits of their cages, rats will press and nose and poke at any space you have available. C&C cages often have gaps that rats can fit through, and even if you think they couldn't wedge their entire body through that's all the more reason to worry about them getting stuck. 

Personally I'd never go anywhere near a C&C. Too risky 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

With the Diet thing Oxbox is wonderful. it has no corn or alfalfa, it does have soy in it but its one of the last ingredients so I'm not too worried about it. Its low in protein for babies though, so rats under 3 months supplement with something like meal worms or crickets, maybe even some boiled eggs(I'm pretty sure you can handle that).

I'll send you a PM about the fresh foods diet. it can end up turning into a pretty heated debate on here, and I would rather not get into that fight again.

I know what you mean about with the cages. For about the price of a single critter nation I could make a cage that would have much more room, and a deeper pull out pan (without wire above it). Martin cages, while I'm not a big fan of their rat cages, aren't badly priced, and are probably the only cage I think are good for the price they are selling them for. So just make sure to have another "bank" to save up for a manufactured cage just on the off chance the C&C cage doesn't work out. Martin cages (make sure to have it custom made with a pull out pan without wire above it) would be a good option for if it doesn't work. Or at lease have another design for a different style of homemade cage.


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## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

Yeah, I had read about oxbow, but for some reason I didnt look up the ingredients, they actually dont seem to bad when I compare it to Kaytee's
Ingredients in the Rat food: Whole Brown Rice, Oat Groats, Wheat Bran, Wheat, Soybean Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Soybean Hulls, Calcium Carbonate, Yeast Culture Dehydrated, Flax Seed Meal (Linseed), Inulin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Soy Oil, Methionine DL, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Wheat Germ Meal, Salt, Magnesium Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Natural Flavor, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Oxide, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-Monophosphate, Biotin, Niacin Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Cobalt Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Vitamin K Activity), Calcium Iodate, Vitamin B12 Supplement

Ill try that but I still will try to add fresh produce and protiens for enrichment.

I looked up on martin's before considering a c&c cage and overall, I was impressed, but I do like the idea of a c&c cage more than martin's just because I get to design it myself. My first option: C&C Cage. My second: Martin's. I have cable ties, a few grids, and connectors already so it wouldnt be as expensive (I have already the supplies to make half the cage I want, a 48 in (l) x 48 (w) x 70 (h)).


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Actually, you do have a problem though. With those measurements you are having it be 3 grids deep. once you get 3 grids and more deep the Roof can get very unstable. that's why its recommended for rat and ferret cages only go 2 grids deep. But Width and height aren't an issue. Personally what I would do is make a smaller cage (so lets say 2 grids, by 2 grids, by 2 grids. So 28, by 28, by 28) Just to make sure that it is stable enough, and see if its manageable. If it is manageable and stable enough add on another level, and another level, and maybe add on to the Width. Though I wouldn't go more then 2 grids Deep.

Weight 48? What grids do you have? Grids are 14 inches not 12. Also don't use connectors. They can create spaces large enough for a rat to slip through, and can also make the cage very unstable.


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## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

Ack, wrong measurments. I just remembered 40 something and I must've guessed 48. And thanks for telling me whats wrong with the cage now before I bought it, would have been pretty upset about that if I found out too late.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Your welcome. the measurements I think you would thinking of are 42. Just to let you know in terms of square feet, its recommended for rats to have 2 square feet (i'm guessing you already knew this) and for a cage that is 2 grids, by 2 grids, by 2 grids, it can hold 6 rats (12 square feet). Every Top you add on (so add to height by 1 grid) will add in 6 more additional square feet (3 rats). And so on.

Hope it works out, when you get it done you need to show us. Not many people do it, and I know that there are some other people on here who would probably like to make a rat C&C cage.


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## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

Yep, that's the number. I was measuring my retic's cage cause I was going to buy more wooden perches for him and 48 inches was his current tank width (Dont worry, i know its small but he isnt full grown and that was his starter cage. Im in the process of building him his forever home which is MUCH bigger than that (It takes up a full wall and his about three times the width of his full grown size). My apologies.

Dont worry, Im pretty good at seeing things through to the end (I wrote five 300 page books (I havent published them of course, they are just for my amusement)). If I do, Ill get working camera and post the final results on here.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Wow, I have like 300 2 to 3 page books that I have yet to finish. I get distracted too easily. You should consider publishing them, if they are good enough you can get a little extra income from royalties.


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## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

There is a reason Im not... Public criticism... I already embarress myself enough and the public would seek ou all my fqaults and errors, and if they dont, the publishers sure will.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

You can always get an editor (the publisher will make you get one anyways to get out any typos) or maybe have some friends read it. Trust me I've read bad books (My friend has read bad books). I doubt yours is as bad as some of the books we've read. Trust me I've read some books that were So bad (had no plot, bad wording, ect) that i stopped reading half way through just cause it was hard to read. You can maybe post a small section (like the first chapter) of one of your books in the Lounge and see what people think. I mean the worse that is going to happen is someone will not like it, But if it is bad others will be willing to help you make it better.

Anyways and with the cage. It Might save money (it might also make it cost more) you can double up the cubes. It will make it the right size and it might or might not look tacky. Here is an example - http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/index.php?topic=4018141.0


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## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

Yeah, but believe it or not, I have a pretty good vocab and whenever some one is reading my work, they always stop every two seconds to ask me what a word means (I learned by now not to use it on forums and in anything other people will read). 

I plan on connecting two of them together (One hid in the closet and one outside the closet just so if they feel like they need some privacy, they dont have to stress themselves to death) using properly sized tubes. I really dont care about the look, as long as it satisfies the needs of my animals, then I dont have a problem with it (Even if it has rainbow colors with my black room).


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Wow, you sound like my friend. I have to keep asking her every two seconds what a word means (I help her with her novel because she sometimes words things weird). Oh well.

Rats typically don't get scared by people. Adding things in like cardboard boxes and hammocks will make them happy. Also, just like with snakes, the smaller the box and the hammock the more likely they will want to sleep in it. those small klenex boxes tend to be a big hit with a group of rats. When I had 3 (RIP Charles) they would All get into one even though one could barely fit. If you don't want to sow or buy fleece or crochet you can buy hammocks online. If your too worried you can just throw a towel or blanket over half the cage. Also I did a price comparison. Not sure on shipping, but using that online store it is about 10 to 20 dollars cheaper to double the grids then to use hardware cloth on the grids. Though if you buy the grids from the store, it might be more expensive (not 100% sure though on that). Though if you have a black room you have an excuse to buy them (or make them) Skull and black camo hammocks.

If your wanting to connect two cages together, as long as they are both C&C cages you can just made a tunnel of the grids. though you might need to get a few cheap pieces of wood or PVC pipe to support it, or just use more grids. Also if the cage is big enough you can put in their tempt cage (the bird cage) inside the cage and cover that with a blanket or towel.

Oh also, off topic, are you planning on males or females?


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## Snake Lover (Sep 11, 2012)

Im pretty good about spelling things correctly, its just I had read and wrote my entire life and my wording is a bit too safisticated for my friends who would never touch a book.

I know they arent afraid of people, its just if they want privacy or I leave the television on at night (Which is why I cover my cal king's cage at night. I ALWAYS leave it on cause for some reason I cant sleep in the dark) and they want some place darker, they have that option.

For hammocks, I was planning on using the sugar glider's old ferret hammocks and bonding pouch (They never used the hammocks suprisingly, they always burrowed under the carefresh bedding for some reason and slept there... Never thought an aboreal animal would do that). 

I am looking into all options and I will make a choice based on what's safer, not cheaper. And that isnt on the top of my list cause I still have a few months before my final decision.

I am planning on getting males for health reasons and because they are more relaxed than females. Im going to try to get hairless but I dont quite know yet, nothing with gender and breed is set in stone.


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