# Seriously?! Seriously?!



## TexasRatties

Omg this is my second rant about craigslist but seriously these rats that this person has she is trying to trade for a camera. I sincerely hope that this is their temp cage while she is cleaning or something. That has to be one of the smallest rat cages I have ever seen. I am texting her now to see if she still has them also if anyone is looking to adopt in San Antonio, Texas that is where they are. I just needed to vent when I saw that.


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## Piff

They're trading rats for a _camera_? What on earth is their problem?


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## TexasRatties

I know!!! I am like a camera seriously a camera? I am seeing if she is open to other offers not that I can necessarily take these guys in but that small cage makes me sad even a tank would be better than that tiny thing. Those are some huge rats too I can only imagine that they are tired of being in there.


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## FutureDVM

Yikes. That looks like a cage made for hamsters or something... :/


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## Piff

Hopefully they were just in there for the photo


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## TexasRatties

Apparently she said there is another cage that has a pregnant rat in it. My guess is it isn't much bigger either. She would give me the pregnant rat if I wanted it. What?


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## Piff

Wow, sounds like she's really attached to them. What a jerk.


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## watts300

It might be a young person that doesn't know any better. 

My rat, Frank, came from a 13ish year old girl on Craigslist that said she "didn't want him any more." 

There are many kids -- and adults even -- that don't know how to take care of rats. They assume many things because they just don't know the right questions to ask. ... or that there even ARE questions to ask. 

Kids also generally lose interest in things quickly, especially things that come with responsibility. 

Neither of those "reasons" are good, nor are they bad. It's just the way it is. I would say this person would benefit from some education about small animal care, but clearly he is already more interested in photography as a hobby. 

If it were me, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. He likely tried as hard as he thought was necessary. Yes, poor rats. But he's trying to find them a better home at least. But ya, trading a pet for a camera is a little scuzzy. 


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## Crezzard

This has broken my heart - some people :-( 


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## TexasRatties

Its a lady who is pregnant and that is why she is trading them for a camera.


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## Emily7

I have to be honest.. I had a rat when I was 10 years old and had him in a two level hamster cage around that size. Looking back on it with the knowledge I have now I feel like the worlds most terrible person. I can say that at least he was almost never in it (I usually have him free range of my room when I was at school) and he was otherwise taken care of properly... But that doesn't stop me from feeling so bad.


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## TexasRatties

I understand people are sometimes not knowledgeable but she just doesn't seem very responsible. Pregnant rats, small cage, trading for a camera


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## Emily7

The trading for a camera part is pretty stupid. I can't stand when people put material objects above living creatures.


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## lalalauren

I saw someone selling their rats because their son had turned 2 and was therefore starting to poke his fingers in places and she was worried he'd poke his fingers in the rat cage....umm, how about try teaching your son not to do that, and also, it's ridiculously easy to teach rats not to bite fingers that get poked through he cage bars. My boys have never even tried to bite through the bars because I've never fed them through the bars :/

Oh, and the rats were also skittish and not used to being held.

Why buy a pet you're not going to interact with? 


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## Grawrisher

Being someone who I interested in both rat and photography, if we figure (trying to get a perspective, not put a price on a life) like 15 bucks a rat, if she's getting rid of all 3 that's 45....what the halibut kind of camera does she expect to get?!?!? A disposable one?....the world is full of freaking idiots


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## Eden10

So sad...is she giving them to you...keep us posted! Hoping for a happy outcome. CL pets ALWAYS makes me mad & sad! Some people on there are just awful


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## TexasRatties

I talk to her she just wants a camera that's it. Ugh people are so frustrating.


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## Grawrisher

What kind of camera does sh want? You could probably find one fairly cheap on cl or at a pawnshop and trade her......or eBay.....ebays awesome


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## wellhello

So save them from the idiot owners. You'd feel better, and the rats would, too.


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## TexasRatties

I am not sure I am really in a position to take in a pregnant rat. Then two males but they have really pulled at my heart strings. She said a camera to take pics of her new baby whatever.


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## xxTheRatChampion

Why can't she trade actual money for a camera then just rid of the rats to someone who'll take care of them. Ugh, I wish I lived in Texas so I could buy take those poor ratties


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## TexasRatties

I know I really want to take these babies. I found someone in my area selling a working digital camera for $10 maybe I could work something out. My mom is going to think I lost it lol.


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## Piff

As long as you have room  I know the ratties will be quite pleased! Let us know! 

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## Siringo

It is hard to resist saying mean things about a mom-to-be that will trade her pets for a cheap camera. but how else will she post her baby pictures on facebook?!


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## watts300

I think people are being pretty judgmental here. No one knows anything about this lady. There could be a whole slew of information regarding the animals that we don't have because she didn't share; nor should she have to. 

All we need to know is that they're up for grabs. If I take many of the folks here at face value, I could easily point fingers and assume negative intentions and even ignorance bordering on stupidity. But that's not how mature people of good conscience should behave. There's more to a person than an advertisement on the Internet and we all know that. 

If nothing else, the woman is pregnant and for a myriad of reasons (unbeknownst to us) she chooses to care for her baby and take photographs of it... and maybe even post on Facebook for her family to see. That is not cruel, illegal, or immoral. It's normal and expected. 

If any one wants the rats because they're being "mistreated" then go get them. But we should stop pointing fingers with prejudiced minds and be more understanding and forgiving. 





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## watts300

Since my short stay so far in this forum, there have been at least two threads from members saying how much they like it here. 

http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?t=96402

http://www.ratforum.com/showthread.php?t=102378

Does this friendship, camaraderie, and goodwill only exist to forum members? Are all of those good things about the forum a non-issue when the person we talk about doesn't visit the forum? Does every one forget how to be friendly when we are talking about others? That's very akin to talking behind some one's back. I think we're all mature here to know that isn't the best of behavior. 


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## Daniel

Part of this I think is that rats tend to get promoted in the 'small animal' category as akin to hamsters and mice, when in reality they have more in common with ferrets than hamsters. So if rats are just another 'small animal', they should be fine in any old 'small animal' cage, right?


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## TexasRatties

You are right watts300 I shouldn't be judgmental but I think to trade animals for a camera is not the way to go about it.


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## watts300

I've gotten over it and I see nothing wrong with bartering. It's efficient and suits her needs. She seems confused regarding the dollar value of the things with which she wants to deal, but that doesn't mean she's a bad person doing bad things. 


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## JLSaufl

I have to agree with Watts here. While seeing the rats in the small home is angering and wanting to trade them for a camera seems cold and very wrong. Here in rural Minnesota they hold swap meets and animals are often included. I know its a common practice in rural communities. 

I'm not just saying farm animals either. I once saw someone trade 5 kittens for 10 bales of hay. One person needed flush for bedding and the other needed cats to control the rodents in the barn. 

It seems uncivilized because *we* would never think of doing something like that. It doesn't mean it is wrong. 

In some Asian cultures people consider dogs as food, we think its cross because we consider them pets. It doesn't mean anyone's wrong, its just a different lifestyle we are unfamiliar with. 

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## Piff

I didn't want to sound too mean, but I'm sorry, I don't like how this person is dealing with their pets. I would have the same indignant reaction if they were on the forum, because it's exactly the way my rat was kept and all signs point to those rats being in the same pitiful condition. 
And yes, I'm still sore about it, so I may have overreacted. I don't think we're being mean. 
Bear in mind that this is a rants section, and we're just expressing opinions here. 

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## watts300

Here's another dose of "mean" reality. 

The lives of animals have a price. 
Any one, ask yourself, how much is the most you would pay for a rat at a pet store? Unless some one has a mental handicap, there's a dollar figure there. Guaranteed. 

How many people in the world, and how many people on this forum have had to put a pet to sleep because the cost of medical treatment was becoming too high? Lots of people. Guaranteed. A person has priorities. A family has priorities too. There's a dollar figure there.

Life has a price. And no one's price is going to be the same as some one else's because of their personal circumstances. This lady has clearly demonstrated that, compared to her unborn child, the lives of her rats have been assigned a price. Who is any one to say that her own decisions aren't as good as yours? No one should compare their life, circumstance, or finances to some one else. THAT'S immoral and wrong. 

And if you're upset about the living conditions of the rats... get over it. She's doing her best to find them a new home. She's doing her best to prepare to give all her resources (time and money) to her infant child. I for one am ashamed of any one that comes down on this new mother and I wouldn't dare consider any one a good person that does. 

I'm sorry if that sounds mean, but after all, this is the rant section. 


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## nanashi7

I don't mean to just chime in at the end here, but I think the problem is this woman's priorities are not to the well-being of her animals but rather her self interest. We can't say "oh, it's for the baby!" because I think babies care more of milk and diapers than of their pictures.

In asking higher adoption fees, I hope to discourage someone looking for feeders. In asking for a camera, she in no way is guaranteeing the safety of her animals. She may have been a great owner, but she may not have been (pregnant rat anyone?). Just because she is having a child does not make her free from judgement; it is what the basis of moral codes can be found in. It is morally BAD to improperly house rats, irresponsibly breed them (and yes, accidents count here...and before you jump on that, see my OWN thread about my OWN accident), and morally bad to try to make a profit in the end from the rats she no longer cares of. 

Being pregnant is not a "get out of jail free" card. My sister was pregnant and had to rehome her dog because it was posing a danger to her child (the dog didn't like sharing attention). Rather than think, "boy we can make a quick buck off selling this pure bred dog", we found a home that both could afford the cost of owning that type of dog, had a proper living condition for it and had vet references. It still saddens me to this day that Baby (the dog) couldn't have lived with us -- I have her sister pup as my dog still.


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## Piff

Sure, that's your opinion. I personally don't think she's doing her best trying to find them a good caring home, nor do I hold her to a lower standard of responsibility because she's pregnant.


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## TexasRatties

Everyone's allowed their opinion on here and I unfortunately have had to rehome animals myself. But I have also rescued a bunch too and never have I asked for something like a camera. My thing is she has these rats that someone could give a good home and someone might even pay a fee for them but if you don't have her precious camera then you can't have them. I have seen many ads on craigslist that have upset and not often do I post about them. This particular one just pulled at my heart strings.


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## rayne

It is awfully easy to sit in judgement of someone that is not here to defend herself. That is all I'm going to say on this. 

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## watts300

rayne said:


> It is awfully easy to sit in judgement of someone that is not here to defend herself.



Exactly the point I've been laboring to make. But not just that, she shouldn't have to defend herself in the first place considering the venue (the Internet). 



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## Siringo

It wouldn't be so bad if she was just trying to give them to a better home so she can focus on her family. It's bad because she says in her ad (yes i looked it up) that she can't even clean their cage anymore, but she will only accept a camera for them. So she is content to let her rats live in a filthy teeny tiny cage, if she doesn't get a camera.

It doesn't matter that she's not here on the forum. I imagine the response would be equal if not worse had she been a member here, because if she had looked into the care of her rats (how many people find this forum in the first place) then she would know better.


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## Minigeko

It doesn't matter if she can defend herself. She would have zero argument for the things you can tell just from the craigslist ad. Keeping two big rats in a hamster cage is not ok. There's no two ways about it. Ignorance is not a valid defense considering a responsible pet owner at the very minimum should know how to house their animal properly. Pregnant or not there's no reason not to take money for the rats, just go to Wal-Mart with it and pick up a cheap digital camera. I don't have a camera, I use my phone, why can't I toss her 60 bucks for them? Why do I have to find a camera?

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## watts300

I've seen the ad also. In consists of about four sentences. 

Any one that casts judgment on another person based on about four sentences is reprehensible. If those people haven't gotten the point yet, it's clear that there's a certain mental capacity that is lacking and prohibiting it. I pity those people and hope they can mature and evolve into a positive contributor to the gene pool. 

That's about all that can be said any more. Good luck you all. Best wishes in your development. 




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## TexasRatties

I have actually talked to the lady and she doesn't say on her ad she also has a pregnant rat which she will add to the bunch as well if you want her. I asked if I can pay a rehoming fee and she said no that she just wants a camera. The ad is still up has been for 3 days and it's sad I hope they get a home I just worry they could be snake food.


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## September

watts300 said:


> I've seen the ad also. In consists of about four sentences.
> 
> Any one that casts judgment on another person based on about four sentences is reprehensible. If those people haven't gotten the point yet, it's clear that there's a certain mental capacity that is lacking and prohibiting it. I pity those people and hope they can mature and evolve into a positive contributor to the gene pool.
> 
> That's about all that can be said any more. Good luck you all. Best wishes in your development.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


A picture's worth a thousand words  

People who want the best care for animals and can't understand people who refuse to utilize all the information at their fingertips aren't the one's who need further development.


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## Minigeko

September said:


> A picture's worth a thousand words
> 
> People who want the best care for animals and can't understand people who refuse to utilize all the information at their fingertips aren't the one's who need further development.


That's the second time he's brought up a mental handicap. I don't see why being mildly logical is a mental handicap. Money can get you a camera, why not take it.

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## Siringo

I'm confused why she won't just take the adoption fee. Is that extra step in going to the store too difficult? I know it's mean to judge people without knowing them, but this woman has supplied enough evidence to say that she is a bad pet owner. It doesn't take more than a few sentences and a picture to see that. I hope she is a better person than she is a pet owner, but you can't give everyone the benefit of a doubt, especially when it comes to vulnerable animals/people.


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## Grawrisher

I'm the first to give someone the benefit I the doubt but really? If you just take the money you get the benefit I choosing the camera yourself, if you took say $60 you can get a GOOD camera with minimum looking, I got a 16 mp canon powers hot for that much on clearance at best buy, if she cares one iota about the treatment of those animals shed accept the money


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## Piff

Minigeko said:


> That's the second time he's brought up a mental handicap. I don't see why being mildly logical is a mental handicap. Money can get you a camera, why not take it.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605


Yes, I would be rather offended if I so happened to be actually lacking mental capacities.


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## nanashi7

My entire academic pursuit must be suspect then. Someone better ring up the universities and dissemble the philosophy departments, and anything that has come of our pursuits. I'll let mine know we are a bunch of immature high-minded idiots.


Many of times we judge who we don't know...who hates the Westboro Baptist Church, anyone? The KKK? Well, I've not met them or engaged in a discussion and yet I judge them. Let's go a bit broader, and talk about people in the past who raped and pillaged, or who closed their eyes to truth as to preserve religious idealism. We can narrow it back down and look at national court cases in which we sit in our high-back chairs pronouncing judgement onto the persons involved. We can discuss why we judge and defend our right to judge, but the point remains THAT we judge. 

Are we not being judged herein as immature, and mentally lacking based on a few sentences? How long must we converse before you know how intelligent I am or am not? It doesn't matter if I've said one sentence or I've said my entire thesis. This person said four lines in an ad...they also spoke to TexasRatties, but I guess we'll ignore that informational input...in one line, I can judge their moral character. Who else has seen pictures of beaten up pit bulls on CL for sale, the only lines being "good guard dog, not good with black people or dogs...$500 obo txt xxx-xxx-xxxx"?I can bloody well judge what is going on there and condemn it.


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## Daize

I'd trade for a camera for her rats. I recently sold an older digital camera, 3 years old, at a yard sale for 10 dollars. So, for me, it would be a good deal.


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## TexasRatties

Unfortunately I cant take them in or I would give her a camera just to take them away. I always do my best to not offend people or to cause conflict but this is ridiculous. She is obviously is not a good pet owner plan and simple.


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## RatBaby

I have the cage this lady has. It's not that small. My two boys are living in this cage while I save for a SCN


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## Rat Daddy

She's trading for a camera, and she doesn't want $10.00, because she doesn't want a $10.00 camera. She's hoping someone's looking to get rid of last years Nikon and wants a few rats. Horse trading up was something I grew up with in the mountains. People who were really good at it could trade an old fishing reel into a used pickup given enough trades and perseverance. The camera goes for a stereo, the stereo for a TV, the TV for a PC, the PC for a lawn tractor, the lawn tractor, for a shotgun, the shotgun for an antique breakfront and the antique breakfront for an old Buick and the Buick for a beat up pickup truck. 

Whether she's looking to make her way up to a pickup truck or not, you can bet she isn't looking for a $10.00 camera.

As to the rats currently being held hostage... one only hopes she gets her camera from someone who will take better care of those rats.


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## mistymornings18

RatBaby said:


> I have the cage this lady has. It's not that small. My two boys are living in this cage while I save for a SCN


Maybe you could post better pics of the cage so we can't it a pr different angles and with stuff in it. 


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## FallDeere

I don't have this cage, but I've seen it in real life. It's for hamsters and is sized accordingly. Before getting my rats, I considered getting it as a spare cage for temporary housing (while cleaning cages) and transport since it was only like $30. After getting my rats, I realized how small it was... Definitely not good for permanent housing and I'd only use it as a temporary cage if I was really desperate or for really small (baby) rats. As you can see from the picture, the shelves are about as big as a medium sized rat. The temporary cage I ended up getting is at least twice the size of this (maybe more) and still not big enough to house two rats for more than a day.

I'm not going to comment on the animal trading. It happens all the time whether we like it or not. Like Rat Daddy said, all we can do is hope that someone with a camera will decide to give these rats a good home.


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## mistymornings18

FallDeere said:


> I don't have this cage, but I've seen it in real life. It's for hamsters and is sized accordingly. Before getting my rats, I considered getting it as a spare cage for temporary housing (while cleaning cages) and transport since it was only like $30. After getting my rats, I realized how small it was... Definitely not good for permanent housing and I'd only use it as a temporary cage if I was really desperate or for really small (baby) rats. As you can see from the picture, the shelves are about as big as a medium sized rat. The temporary cage I ended up getting is at least twice the size of this (maybe more) and still not big enough to house two rats for more than a day.
> 
> I'm not going to comment on the animal trading. It happens all the time whether we like it or not. Like Rat Daddy said, all we can do is hope that someone with a camera will decide to give these rats a good home.


RatBaby said he had this cage for his two males. And that it isn't as small as it looks?


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## FallDeere

That's why I posted what I did, misty. For younger rats, it might not seem so small (and I believe RatBaby's rats are younger males), but the rats in the picture of the original post seem fully grown. This cage is tiny for two fully grown rats. 

Dimensions: 12" x 16" x 18" 

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4470994

Indeed, it is probably not really as small as it looks in that picture because the rats are rather large, but nor is it a big enough cage to house rats for longer than necessary.


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## Grawrisher

Rat Daddy said:


> She's trading for a camera, and she doesn't want $10.00, because she doesn't want a $10.00 camera. She's hoping someone's looking to get rid of last years Nikon and wants a few rats. Horse trading up was something I grew up with in the mountains. People who were really good at it could trade an old fishing reel into a used pickup given enough trades and perseverance. The camera goes for a stereo, the stereo for a TV, the TV for a PC, the PC for a lawn tractor, the lawn tractor, for a shotgun, the shotgun for an antique breakfront and the antique breakfront for an old Buick and the Buick for a beat up pickup truck.
> 
> Whether she's looking to make her way up to a pickup truck or not, you can bet she isn't looking for a $10.00 camera.
> 
> As to the rats currently being held hostage... one only hopes she gets her camera from someone who will take better care of those rats.


Well definitely not but she told texasratties she also had a third rat so let's say 15 dollar rehome fee per rat 15 for the cage the rats will get a decent home and the poster will get 60 bucks my canon powershot on clearance in the box with everything new was roughly 60 bucks


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## Rat Daddy

Somehow I'm thinking this woman is dreaming about a used Nikon or Roloflex... perhaps with a few lenses thrown in. If she wanted a $60.00 camera I'm sure she would have just bought herself one.

Traders aren't looking for retail value they are looking to bargain for bargains... A nice $600.00 or $1000.00 SLR film camera someone doesn't use anymore would likely make for a better trade than a powershot at retail.

And there are shops in NYC and elsewhere that will pay OK for this kind of equipment, not to mention ebay.


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