# Play Fighting? / Not sleeping together



## Fefe8642 (Apr 18, 2013)

Hello I bought my first 2 rats exactly a week ago, they are about 6 weeks old. When I first got them and put them in the cage they would play fight and always sleep together. Now that it's been a week since I got them I feel like their play fighting has gotten a lot more serious and idk if its so much playing anymore  They squeak when they do it and they go rolling around the whole cage. I heard that if there's no blood than its fine but idk I hate to see them fight. Also, they used to sleep together all the time. But now one usually sleeps on one side of the cage and the other on the other side. Sometimes they will still sleep together but not as often anymore. Would just like some opinions from you guys  I want my baby's to be happy


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## Rumy91989 (Dec 31, 2012)

As they grow up they're going to have a lot of tumbling matches as both play and as their continued struggle to figure out who's the alpha rat. It's really totally normal and nothing to worry about. Rats also sleep together on and off, depending on their mood, the temperature of the cage, and whether one has the energy to go across the cage to cuddle with the other when they're tired. I think your boys are going to be perfectly fine.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm a little confused... when they play with you, outside the cage how does that go? 

You should be a strong referee during your play sessions so neither rat gets confused into thinking it's the alpha or that it can be in charge and push it's roommate around as you are the only alpha and you are the only one in charge of the pack. A single strong leader creates discipline and pack order and happy rats. Left to their own devices one rat will overpower the other and as there's just not enough room for the other rat to retreat in a cage things can go sideways.


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## Fefe8642 (Apr 18, 2013)

Well I got them a week ago, and I've only played with them once. I put them both in the bathroom with me with a couple of tunnels and toys and I just sat there watching them. They didnt really do any play fighting in the bathroom, mostly just explored and seemed very scared. But they did come up to me and walk on me a couple of times.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Pretend for a moment that your rats were adopted children or even puppies.... now re-read your previous comment... 

It goes something like this I adopted two children a week ago, I've only played with them once.... Now even if you were to re-write that to read puppies, maybe then you wouldn't have children's services to your door but it wouldn't read much better would it?

I'm not picking on you, but rats are like children or puppies, they need constant human attention and interaction. As soon as you get them home you do immersion.... read the sticky. Then you become the pack alpha and then you don't have rat fights because you are the alpha...

Now the alternative is that one of your rats will become the alpha rat and pretty much trash the other then it will defend the cage against outside intruders like you, that's when you start to get bit.

Hopefully you chose rats because you wanted intelligent, emotional loving and loyal pack animals to start a life long relationship with; if you did, do immersion and get started loving them and being loved. Rats are full time pets, think kids or dogs whenever you say rat. If you wanted something to watch in a cage you went terribly wrong with rats without a human to hands on train them, love them, guide them and protect them they get very confused and neurotic and generally very bad things happen.... think "Lord of the Flies".

Seriously, get your rats out of their cage and become the alpha ASAP. You will never regret your commitment to them as they will return your love 100 times.

If you do it just right it looks like the photo below...


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## Tracylkd (Apr 20, 2013)

I have the same situation as Fefe8642 except my rats have been taken out for daily socializing. I had gotten two females from Pets Mart exactly two weeks ago. They are very used to the family now and run to the door of their cage any time they here our voices coming. All that being said I am noticing a definite alpha control within the cage. One of the girls, Sparky is becoming fatter and also winning the play fights more frequently. I watched, while hidden, to evaluate and found Crusoe to be submissive to her cage mate when the altercations occur. Any suggestions? I was advised that all Pets Marts Rats are females but they couldn't give me the ages of the rats. They said they were cage mates but after purchasing 2 out of 3 in their cage they immediately added two more from the back >:-/ who knows how long that they were cage mates!? Also, could Sparky have been sold to store pregnant??? Why is she getting so fat so fast. Trying to create the most healthy environment.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Tracylkd,

First of all all PetS***t rats are about 5 months old and they are all cage-mates. That's the store policy and that's what they will tell you. People want cage-mates and they won't adopt rats that are older so that's the party line. 

PetS***t also has a policy of sending female rats to one store and males to another. I've seen a very pregnant "male" rat give birth at one store that only sold males so beware. It was also a "normal" eared dumbo to make matters even more interesting.

If your rats fight don't be afraid to intervene and step in to make a point to the more aggressive rat that you are the only alpha and it isn't. Be firm. A real alpha rat would settle this kind of pack disharmony with some serious fur flying... you don't not need to draw blood, but be assertive.

Our rat Amelia is so much younger and stronger than her old very senior citizen roommate Fuzzy Rat that it isn't even funny. But when I'm around, Fuzzy Rat will steal Amelia's food with impunity, when Amelia gets mad Fuzzy Rat rolls over onto her back and Amelia grooms her, then Fuzzy Rat eats the food she stole... One day Amelia got so upset she wouldn't get off of Fuzzy Rat so Fuzzy Rat squeaked for me, Amelia just looked up at me and stomped off to the darkest corner of the cage when she realized she had overstepped, while Fuzzy Rat just went on munching the food she stole from Amelia.

Its a matter of pack order... I'm the only alpha. Amelia is younger and stronger but she knows Fuzzy Rat is under my absolute protection and so does Fuzzy Rat. Amelia can run climb and jump for hours, Fuzzy Rat gets winded after six feet on level ground and has to stop walking, she can't climb a single stair anymore. With me as the alpha they are best friends and take good care of each other, left to their own I'm pretty sure Fuzzy Rat wouldn't have a chance in a fair fight.


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## Fefe8642 (Apr 18, 2013)

Hey Rat Daddy, I did buy rats because I want loving and caring pets. Im sorry that I havent owned pet rats for as long as you have and dont have all the experience you do. Im a noob and im trying my best to learn. These past 2 days I've been taking them out and playing with them for about an hour or 2. I've been doing everything your immersion training said to do, petting/tickling them, getting in their face, and giving them treats through out the play time. I dont think they are scared of me anymore because they dont try running when I pick them up and they let me pet them sometimes when they are in a place they feel comfortable in. But I still dont feel like they come up to me to play with me, I have to go up to them. Im guessing that'll just come with time and trust? 

Once again, I've read a lot and I'm trying my best to learn  Im excited

Thanks a lot for your help!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Don't apologize, I was born way before the age of political correctness and think that most folks need to wake up before they can listen... So some folks might think I'm a little hard. Well maybe I am. But you have your rats out of their cage so I've gotten your attention and you are on the right track. I was new too once and I screwed up too, we all do.

If you aren't doing the 8 hour plus experience things take longer, sometimes a lot longer, but as long as you are putting in a few hours a day you are on the right track... Now many rats don't have a clue what or who you are and they have no idea what to do with you. Are you a big rat? Do you want to play? Are you a big evil monster? They are about 6 ounces and you are gynormus! Imagine something the size of a blue whale circling you. You can't even see where this thing starts and ends. Naturally they are going to be reluctant to tick you off or engage you. Just like you might want to be friends with the blue whale and you don't have a clue how to start that's where your rats are now. But if the whale keeps rubbing against you and passing you goodies and stays right with you you are eventually going to get the message and begin to engage him more. 

So yes... for now, you have to take the initiative. If they don't seem scared anymore... that's great! Now keep using their names, try calling them, keep talking and stay on them and they will respond. Then try and interpret their motions and try to respond to what they are asking you or telling you. When they misbehave give them a love tap so they get the message. And with a lot of affection and a little discipline you become the pack alpha. Once they are completely safe to handle, snatch them out of their cages as much as possible even for just a few minutes and give them little hugs and skritches, and if they want to come out when you walk into the room open the door and pull them out and hug them or give them a treat, so they know you hear them. 

I'm glad you are really excited, I know your rats are too! You and your new pack are on the path to a great new friendship now that you are really getting it together. If you feel your progress is stopping do the marathon immersion if you are making headway everyday just keep up what you are doing. Don't stop or give up until you feel the love.


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