# determining rat age



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

I got a new boy today from the pet store, and I'm having trouble figuring out how old he is. Based on his sluggish movement and lack of strength to climb, I assumed that he's pretty old. However, I've never had an old rat before, nor have I been around old rats, so I don't really know what to look at to figure out his age. He's a pretty big dude and pretty plump.

He's got pretty extreme yellowing on his belly, but he was living in overcrowded filth, so I'm not sure how much is from being dirty and how much is from age. He got a bath today and looked & smelled much nicer afterwards, but he still has this weird smell that I've never smelled on a rat before. It's kinda like poop... but not really. 

As far as his health, he appears to be in good shape. His eyes are bright, he's eating & drinking normally, and he's interested in his cagemate. His coat is shiny and his poop is normal. No tumors or abcesses, either, but he has one big scar w/o hair next to his mouth. His teeth are also normal length, and not as yellowed as my 1 yr girl's.

So how do I tell how old he is?


----------



## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Can you post pictures?


----------



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Sure. I took a couple with him & the new little boy on a ruler, for comparison's sake. He is BIG when he's stretched out! I marked the ruler #s in Photoshop.

He really does smell funny. I keep noticing it everytime I hold him. I've given him a full "exam" (even checked for penis plugs) and noticed nothing awry. He appears entirely healthy, he just smells sort of like a nursing home.

Sorry for the large photo size, but I thought it important to post large images in this case.

I don't think the poor guy has ever been around humans, either, because he's very scared of being picked up. He seems like a real sweetheart, though, and is very happy to snuggle up and get scritches.


----------



## Spider (Mar 19, 2007)

My guess is he's not that old at all, maybe7 or 8 months old. His lack of climbing strength will improve as he probably didn.t do much at the pet store.
The yellow/orange stain is probably Buck grease(testosterone) a wet warm washcloth will get most of the color and smell off.
He could be a little older but I doubt it, I adopted one from Humane Society same size, he was 7 months old. Your guys coat is too nice for an older gent.
My 2 cents. Spider


----------



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Yep, he was in an aquarium with 4 other full-sized boys. Definitely no exercise there. 

I looked up buck grease, and I'm going to start feeding him olive oil to combat the yellowness. I wonder how long it'll take for the yellowing to go away?

And I'm wondering if a vet visit is in order for his odd smell, but I'm not sure the vet would be able to do much that I haven't already done. He's got absolutely nothing wrong, as far as I can tell. I've felt him up and down for tumors & abcesses, checked for penis plugs, etc. He's just really smelly, andt he other boys don't smell anything like this guy. Maybe the buck grease just stinks? (The other boys don't seem to have buck grease issues.)


----------



## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

He looks to be around/slightly over a year.


----------



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Well, guess the G in Mister G is going to have to stand for something other than geriatric. Grande seems appropriate, instead...

Oh, and he's currently attempting to climb the bars, with difficulty. With the tall, round birdcage, he's forced to be a climber... so hopefully he'll trim up in no time. I did put in a ladder for him, though, to make things easier.


----------



## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

oh he is beautiful!! i want one LoL I would guess he is about a year old too looks to be the size of my Iriquois and just as healthy LoL nicely groomed coat where as my jackson who is two doesn't groom the way he used to and it shows.


----------



## Spider (Mar 19, 2007)

The one I was telling you about carries this old uriney smell about him. Although Buck Grease is an issue, I am begining to think there might be some urinary infection going on too.
If I really scrub the cage, and give it fresh linens, litter etc., by morning the next day it stinks, not a poop smell but really amoniac, pee stinky. I don't know if its the case with yours, but its something I am going to have to look at.
Also Chucky lovable as he is, is a big fat slob, who pees in his sleep space, can't seem to get the hang of what the litterbox is for, unlike all the others who like to keep sleep areas clean.
Spider


----------



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Yeah, he's a real pretty one. Once he's properly socialized, he'll be amazing. He's already quite the sweetheart.

Come to think of it, I did notice that his urine smelled a bit strange when he let out his bladder on my shirt yesterday. 

I started treating him with Baytril last night, because he is showing some myco symptoms. If there is a urinary tract issue, then the antibiotics should take care of it in a few days.

I also noticed today that he is very squeaky when touched on his back. He might just be a whiner, or he might be in pain. I suspect whiner, because it's a very small protest squeak.


----------



## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

weird my rat fizzgig squeaks when I touch his back too and he smells like my rabbit used to (his pee reaks) and he drinks like a mad man *goes to the phone to call the vet*


----------



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Hmm, what about kidney problems? Diabetes? Maybe I'm overreacting.


----------



## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

I am waiting for the vet to call me back right now LoL I'll keep you posted on what he says about fizzgig


----------



## Templeton_Jack (Apr 19, 2007)

2many, he is beautiful! And big!


----------



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Another photo I took today...


----------



## Spider (Mar 19, 2007)

Looking at your guy I can see he's just loaded with personality. He seems like a good old fashioned happy go lucky rat-muffin.
You were really lucky to find him and he seems aware of his situation and happy to be in a loving home.
Personally I'm of two minds regarding pet store animals
1. Its a dirty business, buying perpetuates alot of misery
2. Its never gonna end and you have to face reality and make the best of it. I've seen some wonderful loving creatures come from Petco, and you're freeing them from a poor existance.
I think the best that can be done is to make Pet Shops accountable for what they sell, clean up their act.
Sorry to ramble but I've been having words with someone about Pet shop Rats, and then I see a real Beautie like yours.
Spider


----------



## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

2manyrats said:


> Yeah, he's a real pretty one. Once he's properly socialized, he'll be amazing. He's already quite the sweetheart.
> 
> Come to think of it, I did notice that his urine smelled a bit strange when he let out his bladder on my shirt yesterday.
> 
> ...



Fizzgig has an appointment tomorrow at the vets office to see if there is a urinary infection at all. I was going to start him on antibiotics today but i think I am going to hold off untill the vet checks him out. We'll see how it goes.

Does your guy drink alot? Fizzgig drinks like 15 oz.s of water a day


----------



## Night (Feb 23, 2007)

Is Fizzgig a pretty mild-mannered rat, or is he somewhat easy to annoy? When rats are aggressive or territorial, when you touch their back they will hunch up and sometimes squeak/scream.


----------



## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

oh he was a demon rat when we first got him LoL but he has calmed down and it isn't and aggressive or get off me squeak it is more of a painful squeak. and it is only sometimes I have broken the trying to bite everyone and everything but he is still meh about being handled. The things that bug me most is that his pee (even one time of peeing) smells like a rabbit's urine and he drinks NONSTOP. I hope the vet doesn't have to ctheterize (sp) him tomorrow


----------



## twitch (Jan 4, 2007)

i'm not sure if you mean put down or de-nutted with "ctheterize". but i would be concerned with his drinking habits too. if he really is drinking a lot that can often be a first sign of diabetus. i know its treatable in larger animals and humans but its very very expensive. but they use needles quite often and i'm not sure how well a rat would do with that. though, you never know, there could be another method of giving the medication then injectable now. and it may not be that bad yet. early diabetus can be managed with diet and excerise. then again you may just be being an overly concerned rat mom. its best to get him checked out but i'm hoping that its nothing more then worried momma nerves. good luck stephanie, let us know how it goes.


----------



## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

no no catheterized putting a tube up into his junk LoL to get a pee sample to see if there is an infection I am going to try and get a sample in a baby jar tonight he pees constantly so i will follow him around when he has play time LoL this should be interesting I will let everyone what his deal is after the vet appointment tomorrow I never thought of diabetes though god that is scary!


----------



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Woah, 15 oz. I'm glad he's going to the vet, because something is definitely wrong there.

Yeah, I was really lucky to find this guy. I was out running errands and a friend wanted to stop by the local petstore that has the best animals but treats them the worst. In fact, they're the ones I reported to the health department two weeks ago for cramming ~40 rats into 3 aquariums without food or clean water.  I went solely because I wanted to see if the conditions were better - and there were these two guys, totally stinky and nasty in a tank, little diamonds in the rough.

They're not without problems, though, because they've both got bad myco issues. The big guy didn't sound bad at the store, but I think the stress of going home to a new cage and getting a bath was too much for him. Now his breathing is pretty awful, and he need a full course of antibiotics. The little guy has sounded terrible from the beginning. 

I hate that I keep frequenting that petstore, because they are so awful to the animals. They've got the best selection, and some really beautiful animals, but they inevitably have problems. I don't know if the animals come from the supplier in poor shape, and they further the problems, or if their awful conditions cause the animals to have problems, but either way every mammal people have bought from there has had health issues. 

My big dude definitely has an awesome personality, and loves to cuddle and hang out, but he's also getting more and more freaked out everytime I pick him up or touch him on the back. I've started giving him treats for letting me lightly touch him, to hopefully get him to associate handling with good stuff, not bad. Yesterday he was giving protest squeaks, today he's squealing.

Night, that's interesting that you say that squeaking/squealing when handled can be a sign of aggression or territory issues. Would he be exhibiting other behavioral signs that I should look out for? So far, he has interacted with other rats very well, although he mostly just sniffed butts and ignored them (probably he determined they weren't female, so they weren't interesting).


----------



## Spider (Mar 19, 2007)

I have had XLNT results treating Resp. problems with a herbal formula called Lung Caps by Solaray. We have a Herbal Shoppe here owned by an older woman, very knowlegable about the herbal stuff, famous around here. She says this stuff saved her sons life from Pneumonia. It contains Raw Lung from free range clean herd, andherbs and Homeopathics. its supposed to rebuild damaged lung tissue. I just sprinkle a pinch in their oatmeal in the AM. just so they get a bit. I poured 3 or 4 caps in a tiny plastic box and give them a pinch every day. Its pretty cheap 7 or 8 bucks for60 caps, should last a long time.
I had alot of trouble with Myco, its not a cure all and I still use antibiotics but I can see a difference with this added.
Spider


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Stephanie,
All that drinking could also be kidney failure or kidney problems.

2manyrats, its possible the smell is from his old diet/environment. Some of my rescues come in smelling pretty funky at times. Aquariums and boyrats do NOT mix.


----------



## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

The breeder I got him from said he has always drank that much so if it were kidney failure he would not have made it to a year but I will see what the vet says tomorrow


----------



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Ooh, thanks for the recommendation. I'll look into them.


----------



## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

well I just got home from the vets office and fizzgig has a bladder infection. He is on a strong regiment of antibiotics. There was blood in his urine the poor ittle guy. the vet told me I should see a huge improvement in his attitude too seeing as he is probably in alot of pain from the infection.


----------



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Aww, poor Fizzgig. I'm glad he's getting treatment, and I hope he recovers speedily!


----------



## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

thanks 2manyrats I hope so too I am hoping to see an improvement in temperment as well he is a demon rat right now but now that I know it is because he is in pain I am more tolerant of it not so wtf?? LoL he gets two doses a day for seven days and i shoukld see a decrease in the water drinking and the amount of urine as well as the smell i will keep everyone posted on his recovery and see what happens after he feels better (hopefully no moter satan rat! seriously he bit the palm of my hand last night LoL)

Thanks for your concern 2manyrats how is the smell of your guys urine? is he feeling better now that he has settled in a bit?

oh and did animal control do anything about the way they were treating their animals? if not call again and nag them about it something will have to be done or they will get shut down. I called animal control on petco and saw a huge difference i keep going in to check on them too LoL


----------



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

My guy is doing okay, and he's hanging out with me right now on the bed. He's been chewing the paper label off my drink.  

He still smells kinda funky, but lilspaz is probably right - he's just got some serious funkage due to his previous housing arrangement, plus buck grease issues. His urine seems okay, and he's drinking normal amounts, but now his poop is HORRIBLE thanks to the antibiotics. I need to feed him some acidophilous in an hour.

I'm still having issues with him squealing when I pick him up, so I've been trying to pick him up from the front so that he knows what's coming. As a result, he doesn't want me to touch him at all! Still, he wanders over and snuggles up to me, then toddles around the bed, always coming back for cuddling.

I'm not sure if anything was done about the pet store. They still had a lot of animals crammed into the cages, but it wasn't as bad as before. They also had food & water, which is a good sign. The health dept. said they'd call me back and tell me what happened, but I haven't heard from them. I'll call again if I don't hear from them soon!


----------



## Spider (Mar 19, 2007)

I'm really glad things are working out . I have a small 5 month old I got from Petco, He's very smart and fastidious, a careful eater, I have been working hard to show him I love him but Leonardo still runs from my grasp, and sometimes squeals when I do hold him. Its funny because he's the most couragous and will jump on my arm and climb and explore,everythings OK as long as its HIS will, its what HE wants to do.
I think it has to do with submitting to anothers will. Competition for survival must have been pretty fierce from the beginning for this little guy, he didn't have a loving Mama coddling him, he must have had a miserable infancy. All this must have created one **** of a super ego to make it through, he's had to depend on himself so far and He's not about to Kowtow to a big ugly monster like me.
With animal, rats especially I like to proceed at their pace, earn their trust even if it takes years, some may never get over their inheirant sense of self-dependance and open up and trust . Rats have such a diversity of personalities you never know what they'll be like 2 months from now could be like a different Rat. Good luck Spider


----------



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Guess who just started bruxing and boggling and then fell asleep while letting me rub his cheek and ears & pet his side/back? He's totally come around! I can't believe it!

I've been socializing him by letting him hang out with me on the bed for ~8 hrs a day, feeding him little treats for coming to me and being very careful not to startle him or go beyond his comfort level. Mostly he's been hanging out in the rat ball or underneath my my bed-table, watching me. 

He's still very smelly, though. I'm going to wait to bathe him for a few days so that I don't void the trust that he's gained with me.


----------



## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

good idea to wait on the bath. When you do give him a bath make sure it is on his terms. Only fill the bath tub up a bit so there is dry parts he can run to. have a plastic cup handy so you can rinse him easier. I find that my boys like it more when i use a cup they think it is a game LoL try and hide from mommy when she is trying to rinse us off LoL they scamper around the tub like "you can't get me"


----------



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

That's good advice - usually I just stick them under the faucet (never the head, though) and get it over as quickly as possible. This is the first adult I've had to socialize, so I don't want to traumatize him.

Also, I have a question about playing with him. Whenever I try to play with him with my hand, he goes into "fight" mode and stands straight up to fend me off. He doesn't seem to want to play friendly at all. I wonder if it would be a bad idea to just lightly push him on his tummy and dominate him? Maybe if we got the hierarchy established, with human on top, he'd stop freaking out so much? Or maybe I should just leave him alone and give him the illusion that he's in charge?


----------



## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

I always dominate my rats LoL "I AM THE ALPHA" LoL you mihgt want to be careful though since he is older you may run the chance of him biting you. Try just gently holding him on his back on your lap that is what i do with iriquois when he feels too big for his britches. Let him up very quickly though and as far as the standing up that he does it really doesn't sound too nasty when my boy Steve is all p'o'd at me he puffs and side saddles with my hand. It sounds like that may be your boys way of playing. try play boxing with him (don't know if you have ever seen boys box it's adorable)


----------



## Stephanie (Mar 25, 2007)

ok so big update on fizzgig's bladder infection. He has gotten four doses of meds and already there is a HUGE difference in him *he is helping me type now* I couldn't even attempt to hold him before this. Tonight he has been sitting on my shoulder cleaning me and it just seems like he is saying thankyou for making me feel all better. I am moved to tears at this guys story he must have been in so much pain for so long and i thought he was just mean. I couldn't let my kids around him or anything. He has biten me twice and my hubby alot more times than I can count. As it stands right now I am absolutely shocked that he survived the pain. He no longer squeaks when I touch him and he is sooo happy to get scritches. I am going to attempt intro's once he is off his meds. I am so happy i don't have to give him back *huge sigh of relief* I can't believe this was not caught by the breeder. I understood when he came to the house he had mites it happens but I am just discombobulated as to how a breeder doesn't recognize a bladder infection. I talked to her and she was misinformed by her vet apparently. I hope that the smell of your ratty fades too 2many have you taken him to the vet for a complete check up?

*OMG i am hearing bruxing*


----------



## 2manyrats (Apr 10, 2007)

Hey, that's awesome, Stephanie! 

Rats can endure a lot of pain. They're usually pretty stoic about it, and don't complain too much, unless it's horrible... and it sounds like Fizzgig's infection was awful! Poor little guy! I'm so happy you caught it and could make his life dramatically better. And now he can be a real pet for you & your kids!

I don't think my guy's in pain, or has an infection. He only squeaks (or squeals) part of the time when picked up, and usually only when grabbed from behind. He's not aggressive, either. I think his awful smell comes partially from marinating in stink at the pet store, his buck grease, stress of a new environment, and from a bad diet previously. I think his smell will get progressively better as he settles in, eats a good ratty diet, and his buck grease gets under control with the addition of omega-3 & 6 fatty acids to the diet. He's also on baytril/doxy for the bad mycoplasma infection he came in with, which can make him smell worse.


----------

