# Jealousy between my rats?



## jfoahs04 (Jan 25, 2011)

This is my first post here. I have been following for a while and have picked up a lot of great information. I'd go so far as to say you guys have been my lifeline in the rat adoption process. So before I even begin, thanks!

I'm a recent college grad and animal lover. Since I'm early on in a career plan and grad school, I may be asked to move around a bit which makes finding and keeping a pet difficult. I love cats and dogs, but I don't want to deal with the hassle of finding an apartment that will take them and having to walk them (dogs) regardless of the weather (I'm in Boston). After some research (a lot of which was done by reading these forums), it turned out rats make a great pet. The small size, relatively low maintenance and learning ability of rats combined with the (unfortunately) short lifespan make them ideal for a person who isn't sure where they'll be in 3-5 years. 

Now on to the issue. I bought two male rats from a local breeder (Pierre and Francois). They behave beautifully with each other. They play fight (take turns finishing on top), cuddle, clean each other, etc. Pierre, however, has quickly become the much more outgoing of the two. I've had them for 5 days and Pierre cleans my fingers for me (I had no idea how dirty I was) and perches on my shoulder while I watch TV (very cuddly for a young rat) or walk around. As of yesterday, he'll even roll a ball back and forth with me. 

Francois is a little more shy. This is OK. In fact, I find the different personalities fascinating and I've only had them for 5 days so it's only natural to be adjusting. I've been working on the steps to gain his trust. I never pick him up (but I'll pet him if he lets me), I give him treats and so on. He'll eat out of my hand and let me pet him. He LOVES water from my fingers. He's actually made some good progress. However, if this were just about building trust with my rat, I wouldn't be writing. There's plenty of info on that already.

The problem is with how Pierre reacts when I interact with Francois. Every time I start to make a little progress with Francois (whether he's approaching my hand, I'm petting him, etc), Pierre generally charges and tackles Francois. Not biting or violent, and certainly not prolonged... but enough to make Francois head back into their comfy hideout. It's not just about food either. If I'm giving out treats, Pierre generally gets one to eat (and some petting) before/during my interaction with Francois. 

I'm just concerned and unsure how to handle it. Pierre REALLY doesn't seem to like me interacting with my other rat. If he's not in the cage, he'll climb my shoulder and shove his nose in my ear or lick my nose or get really pushy while I'm petting Francois. Not mean, just pushy. I think it's jealousy, but I don't know what to do. The flip side is that Francois is much more confident with his buddy around which is why I don't just try and separate them (I'm willing to try if anyone thinks that'll work).

Again, these are young rats (just under 3 months) and I know it takes time. That's fine, but I really feel Pierre is doing his best to prevent me from also bonding with Francois. Does anyone out there have some experience with something like this? Any suggestions? I'm open to anything.

Sorry for the lengthy post!


----------



## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

Pierre has taken possession of you like he owns you just as he owns all other resources. I am a dog trainer and with dogs that show this behavior I give them a brief (half a minute) time out like a down- stay. In your case I would put Pierre on the floor or on a tall bookshelf but not in his cage as that should always be associated with a good and safe feeling. reward him with treats when he behaves himself; he needs to learn what behavior pays off.
Important is to never punish him verbally or physically. It basically comes down to taking away the pay off for his behavior; he wants all of you but he gets to be removed from you when he acts out.
Keep us posted. This is very interesting stuff.


----------



## jfoahs04 (Jan 25, 2011)

Thanks! It's funny to think that he has taken "ownership" of me. Here I was thinking it was the other way around!

That's a different approach than what I've been doing (which hasn't worked in the slightest) by giving him treats to sort of bribe/distract him while I play with Francois. I'll try it today when I'm playing with them. I'll keep you posted!


----------



## wendyrblack (Jan 7, 2011)

LOL it must be fascinating indeed. I'm quite jealous, I wish one of mine loved me that much! Mine are the same age as yours, btw...I'm also a first time owner and am very grateful to this forum for all the info I gathered before I decided to get my ratties  
I'm curious to see how this love triangle develops!


----------



## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

wendyrblack said:


> LOL it must be fascinating indeed. I'm quite jealous, I wish one of mine loved me that much! Mine are the same age as yours, btw...I'm also a first time owner and am very grateful to this forum for all the info I gathered before I decided to get my ratties
> I'm curious to see how this love triangle develops!


It doesn't have anything to do with love; it is dominating the other rat over resources. it is not different than the rat protecting the best treats.


----------



## wendyrblack (Jan 7, 2011)

begoodtoanimals said:


> It doesn't have anything to do with love; it is dominating the other rat over resources. it is not different than the rat protecting the best treats.


Oh...*sobers up* I didn't see it like that. I guess I still have to learn how to "think rat"...


----------



## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

wendyrblack said:


> begoodtoanimals said:
> 
> 
> > It doesn't have anything to do with love; it is dominating the other rat over resources. it is not different than the rat protecting the best treats.
> ...


Yep that's what it always comes down too if you don't understand your pet; crawl into their skin and think like their species.


----------



## jfoahs04 (Jan 25, 2011)

Pierre is a little more tolerant now, and Francois is a bit braver than he was a few days ago. I've only had to remove Pierre from the situation twice (sat him on a desk just out of reach for a minute or so) and it seemed to help. I think Pierre is coming to terms with the fact that not everything in the world is his while Francois is gaining the confidence to A) explore a little and B) stand his ground to an extent. They're young and things may change, but Pierre is the alpha of the pair. That much is clear. Still, progress is being made and I think the "time out" is a good approach.


----------



## begoodtoanimals (Dec 6, 2007)

Awesome!


----------

