# Thread for mumble



## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Basically I've posted many of threads about my little monster mumble lately so I thought if I make a thread just about him then it will be easier, 

For those who don't know mumble was a massive mummies boy would cuddle and never leave my side, would always come out as soon as I open the cage up , however in the past few weeks he has become extremely aggressive, he fights a lot more with my other boy blue and also bites me, he doesn't fuss to come out anymore etc.

Basically I want to get him neutered but because mumble is fine with my boyfriend, my boyfriend isn't to keep on the idea, the way I see it is he's not handling mumble every day and getting bitten for no reason and having to watch mumble bully blue constantly, anyway I said to my boyfriend ill give it a week or two, so I'm going to do daily updates on here so at the end of two weeks and I read through and see if he has got better or not, also along the way I would love for anyone to give me advice! 

Anyway...
Day 1 - mumble and blue have been free ranging on my bed as normal I gave them both a Cheerio each, mumble quickly ate his then jumped on blue and stole blues, so I took blue away and gave him another treat. When I came back with blue I sat on the bed and was just watching tv and as usually the boys started fighting but now when every mumble even goes near blue, blue squeaks like crazy! Mumble doesn't have to even touch him now before he squeaks. Anyway I was sat on my phone and mumble came over gripped onto my arm with his teeth and wouldn't let go, I dragged my arm away and put him back in his cage because i didn't know what else to do, (they will be out later also) 

Here's mumble sulking when I put him
Back in his cage















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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

The fact that he is biting you at random isn't normal and he's likely so overwhelmed with hormones he's frustrated to the point he's lashing out.
He's stressed and isn't doing this because he hates you or blue, he doesn't know what to do with himself.

I would take him in to be neutered regardless of what your boyfriend thinks. Explain to him it's bad for Mumble's health and it could bring him a early death being so stressed and frustrated all the time.


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

A rat who used to be a lovely snugglebug suddenly turning into a psycho biting monster does sound like he's gone hormonal, is his fur more greasy than normal or does his fur smell bad? I had my aggressive nutcase Magnus neutered yesterday because of a hormonal turn, his skin and coat aren't looking great at the moment because of all the extra buck grease he's been producing, it's a good way to help tell. My partner and I were wary of having him put through such a big operation but he was attacking us to the point where feeding him was becoming a two-person job and he really didn't seem happy at all, I'm hoping he's fine after the surgery (he seems Ok) and will settle down back to his original playful ways. You could always go for a vet consultation and let the vet help persuade your boyfriend?

A hormonally aggressive rat would normally become unfriendly with everyone, I'm not sure why he'd be fine with your fella; did something recently happen to possibly make Mumble wary of you? e.g. did you accidentally bump into the cage loudly or sit on him, or anything like that? He might just seem Ok with your boyfriend because he doesn't handle him nearly as much as you of course, my Magnus could be Ok being held for a couple of minutes sometimes before the crazy kicked in. I doubt he's being aggressive because he's in pain or he probably wouldn't be so active and otherwise normal. 

I personally think neutering sounds like a good idea if this is still going on after a couple of weeks, as a hormonal shift isn't going to just fix itself. It's safer for you, it sounds like it'd make Blue a whole lot happier and I believe that an angry, vicious rat isn't a happy creature.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Jokerfest said:


> The fact that he is biting you at random isn't normal and he's likely so overwhelmed with hormones he's frustrated to the point he's lashing out.
> He's stressed and isn't doing this because he hates you or blue, he doesn't know what to do with himself.
> 
> I would take him in to be neutered regardless of what your boyfriend thinks. Explain to him it's bad for Mumble's health and it could bring him a early death being so stressed and frustrated all the time.


Yeah I feel really sorry for him because I can't help him without being neutered really, my boyfriends friend was round last night and he started to annoy mumble which made things worse, luckily I saw what he was doing to him and took them both away into another room, which the boys didn't like but was for their own safety, I wasn't very impressed and in the end told him to leave, My boyfriend has told me that were going to make a rat fund so if mumble and blue need to get neutered or anything we have money put away for it which is good, so hopefully getting mumble neutered will go ahead, 


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

PurpleGirl said:


> A rat who used to be a lovely snugglebug suddenly turning into a psycho biting monster does sound like he's gone hormonal, is his fur more greasy than normal or does his fur smell bad? I had my aggressive nutcase Magnus neutered yesterday because of a hormonal turn, his skin and coat aren't looking great at the moment because of all the extra buck grease he's been producing, it's a good way to help tell. My partner and I were wary of having him put through such a big operation but he was attacking us to the point where feeding him was becoming a two-person job and he really didn't seem happy at all, I'm hoping he's fine after the surgery (he seems Ok) and will settle down back to his original playful ways. You could always go for a vet consultation and let the vet help persuade your boyfriend?
> 
> A hormonally aggressive rat would normally become unfriendly with everyone, I'm not sure why he'd be fine with your fella; did something recently happen to possibly make Mumble wary of you? e.g. did you accidentally bump into the cage loudly or sit on him, or anything like that? He might just seem Ok with your boyfriend because he doesn't handle him nearly as much as you of course, my Magnus could be Ok being held for a couple of minutes sometimes before the crazy kicked in. I doubt he's being aggressive because he's in pain or he probably wouldn't be so active and otherwise normal.
> 
> I personally think neutering sounds like a good idea if this is still going on after a couple of weeks, as a hormonal shift isn't going to just fix itself. It's safer for you, it sounds like it'd make Blue a whole lot happier and I believe that an angry, vicious rat isn't a happy creature.


 He doesn't smell great to be honest but I don't think his fur is greasy, nothing has happened between me and mumble so I can't understand why he's changed other than hormones, 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Yeah it's definitely sounding like a hormonal shift, hopefully you can get him neutered soon and not have to worry about losing blood when you go near him!


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Day 2 - had him out and he was fine for about ten minutes, my boyfriend was sat on the bed then all of a sudden mumble just bit his arm, then throughout the night continued to bite me mumble blue and my boyfriend, although this is still very upsetting, my boyfriend has said that Monday we will be booking an appointment for him to get neutered which is a big relief for us all, 
However is there anything I need to do? And is there any risks etc? 


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Sorry I meant me my boyfriend and blue haha! Was typing to quick haha 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Your vet will go through the motions with you but I'd mainly say try to ensure you go home with extra pain relief for him as it'll be pretty sore for him for the first few days (we bought metacam from the vet for Magnus.) There is always a risk with small animals and anaesthetic unfortunately but you can help him along afterwards by ensuring he stays hydrated, warm and is comfortable. If you have a smaller cage to put him in to prevent him running around and risking pulling open the wound, that'd be good for a few days; line it with something soft like an old towel, it'll be more comfy on the tender area. Keep an eye out for infection, although the vet will probably give you Baytril to prevent an infection; try to distract him if he attemptes to chew open the wound. Our vet said that while they do have a tendancy to self-mutilate surgery areas, they normally only do it on the first night after surgery, just be vigilant. Isolating him in the smaller cage for a couple of days will prevent Blue from trying to chew the wound too.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

We have some metacam already which is good and everything else I can do, I have some fleece baby blankets will they be okay for him? I have like a cage with no bars that he can go in, it's like a plastic tank but with a top on, I'll put him in my room for a couple of days so I can keep an eye on him at all times, can they free range together or is that gunna be to much for mumble? And also when I put them back in the cage together will they be fine with each other? 


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## Critter Mom (Apr 13, 2013)

My first comment I will say as a reminder (as I'm sure it's not 'News') is: Rats are so jealous, especially if they think there's someone trying to share their spotlight. However I also wanted to share something I was once told by a Vet/Professor from U.C.Davis. Most Rats are born with a parasite within their brain, and during their life it may cause almost any neurological symptom, ie: they could suddenly become paralyzed or have seizures, become aggressive, etc etc. Or they could go their entire life without ever experiencing anything. I have raised a lot of rats over the years and I see it every now and then, usually it's very sad (for me anyhow) Rats are so fascinating and smart, and stole my heart years ago. I just bought 2 new babies yesterday, would love to hear some ideas for names. Both girls.


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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

Critter Mom said:


> My first comment I will say as a reminder (as I'm sure it's not 'News') is: Rats are so jealous, especially if they think there's someone trying to share their spotlight. However I also wanted to share something I was once told by a Vet/Professor from U.C.Davis. Most Rats are born with a parasite within their brain, and during their life it may cause almost any neurological symptom, ie: they could suddenly become paralyzed or have seizures, become aggressive, etc etc. Or they could go their entire life without ever experiencing anything. I have raised a lot of rats over the years and I see it every now and then, usually it's very sad (for me anyhow) Rats are so fascinating and smart, and stole my heart years ago. I just bought 2 new babies yesterday, would love to hear some ideas for names. Both girls.



Lol I hate to tell you but that isn't true. Your vet friend was likely talking about toxoplasmosis and 'most' rats do not have that. The parasite can cause neuro issues but it isn't very common in pet rats.

All animals can have seizures, hormonal imbalances, or psych issues that does not mean they have a brain parasite.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Personally i can't seem it being that, I'm pretty sure it's his hormones, and I understand about rats getting jealous however blue and mumble have extremely different personalities and I'm just hoping neither do get jealous, they will have the same routine just mumbles going to be in another cage for a few days,


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Metacam will be great, make sure you know a safe dosage for him. Fleece would be fine for him, most hammocks are fleece-lined, so that'd be nice and soft on his sore bits; a tank that he can't climb around in might seem boring for him but it's a great way to prevent too much moving around (our vet recommeded minimal exercise for the first couple of days.) I wouldn't free-range him with Blue so soon after surgery, if he's been problematic with Blue then you don't want to risk a scuffle; it'll take a few weeks for Mumble to calm down and get all that crazy testosterone out of his system. If you decide to let them play together, just be super vigilant. I wouldn't worry too much about putting them back together once he's healed a bit, since rats heal very quickly they probably won't be apart for long; I had to isolate a sick rat for 11 days once and things were back to normal right away when she went back home, they're usually pretty good that way. Just keep an eye out for Blue distressing Mumble's surgery wound.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Day 3 - mumble was very angry being out today I put them to bed and went to check on them blue was in a ball in the corner I picked him up and he had two cuts on him with a fair bit of blood I separated their cage so they don't hurt each other, ill probably let the cage join again tomorrow but Monday I'm ringing the vets 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Aww poor Blue, hope he's Ok and not too shaken up.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

He seems a lot calmer now, but I can just tell by how mumble is acting that he's frustrated, I feel so sorry for them both, 


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Think blue was stressed last night being parted with mumble, I checked blue this morning he's cleaned his wounds and looks fine but he's ripped up his fleece, smeared poop everywhere and his food is all over the place, poor little guy,

Mumble is still very frustrated but i expected that from last night, will give a better update when I have them out later, 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Aye, even though Mumble is being mean to him, Blue will still miss his company. It's so frustrating for everyone involved.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

I managed to get a video of mumble biting me but I don't know how to upload it, 


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Day 4 - mumbles still biting but I've had him sat with me on a chair for the last hour He's calm and is currently sleeping however I'm not sure if he's okay, he keeps hanging his head and is just acting really weird, I'm ringing the vets at eight in the morning to get him checked and in for neutered, as I was writing this I just looked down and him and he was sat normal but as he was breathing he was like rocking back and forth, with half open eyes then jumped up an started wandering around and then laid down and went back to sleep, it was strange, 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Some of my rats have sleep-swayed at random, it's never been a problem that I can connect to anything else. You can always mention any new behaviour and concerns to the vet. His hormonal changes may just be making him feel a bit out of sorts in general.

I'm not sure if you can embed a video in the forum or not but if you put it on Youtube or another site that hosts videos, you can post the link to it here.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

I don't have any places where I can post videos, ill make a YouTube account tomorrow and put it on through that,

He's being very cuddly and laying on my chest but won't let me touch him the little odd bod haha, I will write a list And let he vets know 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Cool, I hope it goes well. My Magnus is a total lunatic but even he has brief moments where he'll sit and be petted, almost like he forgets he's a hormonal little madman, lol; he quickly remembers though and then snaps for our fingers! I can't wait 'til his neuter wounds heal and the testosterone is gone, I'm dying to give him a proper cuddle without him bristling and snorting at me and side-walking like a possessed crab.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Hahahaha! I know exactly what you mean! Bless our boys, bet they hate having to deal with their hormones, I love your boys name, it's adorable! 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Thank you.  It's from the book The Vampire Lestat by Anne Rice. Quite fitting really that he's named after a vampire since he loves to bite, haha. Mumble and Blue are adorable names too, especially Mumble!


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

This is our loony Magnus by the way, one of the few photos we have of him since he's become such a nightmare to go near:


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Aww! He is absolutely adorable! And haha yeah his name fits him very well! Can't believe how nice his fur is, looks so shiny! Haha and thank you, mumbles named after the penguin on happy feet haha, and blue because he has a grey/blue patch on his back 

This is them when they're being friends, 








Oh and I got mumble an appointment for Thursday, so going to start sorting his cage out so its all ready and I don't have to worry about it  


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kJt_MR9Nb8k&feature=plcp

That's the link of the video of mumble  


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbhB3qJ0oQU
This is a video of mumble when he was okay, I find it funny, and you can see blue in the back ground between the pillows watching him, 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

They're both very handsome! I'm glad Mumble has his appointment, hopefully it won't be long before he chills out and stops giving you and Blue a near-heart attack, lol. Magnus' coat is looking a bit more rough just now because of all the extra buck grease, he's a little walking pile of dander, can't wait to give him a bath and a brush once he stops trying to kill me, haha.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Hahaha bless I reckon he'll love you for it once he calms down! And yeah I think everything's getting done Thursday by the sounds of it, did the links work? 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Your links were to the Youtube mobile thingy (I'm never online on a phone) but I just went to the full Youtube site and searched the same titles. Mumble was so cute stealing treats, was that spaghetti with hot dog pieces? Blue looked very shy, hehe. Mumble's hand nip looked sore though, little meanie!


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## bbrats (Jan 21, 2013)

I watched your youtube videos and oh my goodness mumble is sooo cute!! Aw that video were he is being a grump, he looks so sweet for the first few seconds. He comes when you call him and it looks like he is about to climb up your arm for cuddles but then he goes and bites you! Im sorry but i laughed just because he looks so innocent yet hes be overtly mean hahah


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

It's really hard to ever get mad at rats, even when they're being bad they're still adorable, haha.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Haha no it was a Cheerio chain, I hang them in the cage once a week but obviously mumble couldn't wait haha, 

Yes mumble always looks so sweet and innocent, last night he was being really cuddly but if I touched him he'd bite me haha, naughty boy, his bites don't hurt to bad at the time depending on how hard he bites but after they kill haha! 

When the video of mumble stealing treats was taken blue was very very scared, he wouldn't come out from under pillows etc but now he's so much better, it's crazy what a little TLC can do! 


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

And bbrats don't worry I laugh at the video to, I can't help it, he just looks so cute and mischievous haha 


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FFyw-mdyvFk

Bit of a break through with mumble, if you watch till the end you'll see him letting me stroke him as also him bruxing, very happy mummy right now


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Sorry missed out yesterday's update but 

Day 6- mumble has been a little babe tonight, he's had a few nibbles but nothing major, he's letting me stroke him and he's fast asleep next to me, I'm still going through with gettin him neutered as I don't think this will last long even though I really hope it does, I think he could be a little bit poorly as he's sneezing and his breathing isn't great but ill mention all that to the vet on Thursday but anyway yeah my baby boys seem happy tonight 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

He sure looked comfortable and chilled out in the video! So cute seeing Blue having a wee wash too, lol. I'm glad he's having a night off from being a little monster.


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## bbrats (Jan 21, 2013)

Aww hes so cute in his little sleepy video!!


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Haha yeah only lasted a little while, but was cute! Ahh tomorrow's the day, I'm starting to feel more and more guilty as it gets closer, 


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## bbrats (Jan 21, 2013)

You should be excited! Your gonna get your old, happy, loving, momma's boy back!


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Yeah I know, I'm just worried about him being in pain,  can't wait to have my snuggle bug back though, miss being able to just chill out with him! 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

If the vet can give you at least a week's worth of metacam you shouldn't need to worry about pain, time will fly by and hopefully he'll settle back into being a big snugglebug!


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

That's okay then, I will make sure the vet gives me more then what I need just incase mumble spits it back out haha 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

I had to give Magnus his metacam on food because he just cannot be held properly to take it by syringe, I thought the stuff smelled vile but he didn't seem to mind at all; I'd just give him the correct amount on a little piece of bread and watch him eat it to make sure he didn't leave the part soaked with the stuff. He was very good but then, he does love to eat treats!


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Ill give it ago in food, he likes his treats far to much so wouldn't stress him out as much and also can he eat and drink before his neuter? 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Yep he can eat and drink as normal, if I remember correctly our vet says that the main reason most pets don't get to eat before an operation is incase they vomit and choke but rats physically can't vomit, so that worry isn't there. We took in a little tupperware tub of his normal food so he had something to eat when he woke up (we've been asked to do that before for post-surgery) as most vets will keep a neutered rat on the premises for a good few hours to make sure they're Ok and not reacting badly after the anaesthesia. Might be an idea to take a little packet or box of Mumble's food along with you.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Yeah I took him a little food with him, 
He's just gone in and i felt so so mean! He's so scared of the vets but atleast he's getting his sneezes and nails sorted as well as getting neutered! Will find out how he's doing about two ish, 


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## bbrats (Jan 21, 2013)

Good luck mumble!!  And no your not mean! It's for his own good also. Can't imagine living with an attitude problem would be very pleasant haha.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

bbrats said:


> Good luck mumble!!  And no your not mean! It's for his own good also. Can't imagine living with an attitude problem would be very pleasant haha.


Yeah I suppose so, he just looked so scared bless him! 


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## Sugapot (Mar 3, 2013)

Good luck Mumble! Thinking of you Ratfinx. Wont be easy seeing him in pain. I would feel so bad too, but it is probably the best thing you can do for him. Just remember the end result - a happy rattie


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Thank you Sugapot I will give you all an update when I hear from the vets and post some photos of him when he's home, hopefully he won't be to bad with pain relief, got blue on the bed with me ATM and you can really tell he's missing mumble, poor little guy haha 


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## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

Aww, poor Blue. Even getting beat up, he still misses Mum! Hope everything goes well today. 

As a reminder for myself, how long does it take for their extra testosterone to be gone after a neuter? I keep hearing all the horror stories of the hormonal boys & it kinda makes me want to just stick with the girls, lol. I'm also not a big fan of the urine marking and heard that boys do more, so that's another downside for me.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Mumble pees a little but it's not like a full wee if you know what I mean  

Just picked mumble up and he is very lethargic and fell asleep on my chest he looks ever so cute but doesn't seem in pain, the vet didn't give me any medicine but they said if he shows any sign of pain that they will prescribe him some pain relief and that they gave him a pain relief and antibiotic injection  
















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## socal_sarah (Mar 5, 2013)

Glad you get to cuddle him while he's letting the anesthesia wear off. He may be a wonky for the next 24 hrs, so expect that.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Yeah he seems to be limping a bit, but he's not as bad as I thought he would be, so glad to get him home though! 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Sarah, my rat Loki pees a whole frickin' river every time he's out of the cage, lol; it's a big problem but we're not going to put him through a neuter for that reason alone. He had a rubbish start to life and adores us, so we'll put up with the pee situation as he makes up for it in personality. People's opinions seem to vary greatly on how long it takes the testosterone to dissipate and the calmness to come back; some say about 8 days, some say a few weeks, some say a couple of months! My vet reckons about 6-8 weeks before a neutered male will start chilling out.

Mumble looks so cute when sleepy! Glad everything went Ok for him, hopefully it's the start of a brand new and improved Mumble behaviour.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Yeah hopefully, he's very weak on his back legs but that expected, he's tryin to stay awake but keeps dozing off haha, my little cutie! 

The pee doesn't bother me that much blue doesn't pee at all when he's out where as mumbles like a moving tap haha, however it's more of a dribble then a puddle,  


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## bbrats (Jan 21, 2013)

Aww he looks soo cute!! Glad everything went well!  Hopefully he has a speedy recovery also!


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Thank you  

Does anyone know if its normal for them to breath really fast after neutering? Mumble looks like he's just been running miles! Haha I'm sure it's nothing just me being over protective! Haha 

Also he keeps falling asleep in funny places like he fell asleep eating, and he was having a drink and fell asleep on the like tube of the water bottle! Was very cute! 


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

think mumble is very sore! Little snuggle bug 


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## Sugapot (Mar 3, 2013)

Aww so sweet! Cutie 


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

I know he's very tired and worn out but is this normal? His body looks weird compared to how it used to look, I might just be paranoid but here's a video of his breathing that I mentioned http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wxXIhHlrAWo 

Also I let blue see him for a minute blue went up to him licked his head then left him alone which I thought was nice as blue could of easily took revenge haha, still keeping them apart till mumbles more active  


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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

No that's not normal that is how Jasper was breathing when he was very sick.
I've had one of my boys neutered (Romeo) and he was not breathing like that.
I mean I could be wrong and some rats do that after surgery but from what I know they shouldn't.

Mumble is abdominal breathing and I would call your vet asap!
He looks really bad to me. Romeo was atleast standing up when I got him back not sprawled out struggling to breath like that.


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

My Magnus didn't breathe that hard after his operation, it does look like Mumble is breathing a bit hard, the half-closed eyes suggests he's maybe feeling sore. I think you should ask for the extra pain relief that your vet offered asap and have them look at him, just to be safe. Different animals respond differently to anaesthetic and take different lengths of time to shake off the effects, my Magnus was dopey for a few hours and then perked up and began eating as normal; has Mumble made any move to eat or drink since you brought him home?


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

He has been eating and drinking, his breathing is Still not great but he's moving about more now but still laying down odd, I will keep an eye on him, the only time I could take him to vets will be Monday so I will ring first thing Monday morning if he still isn't better, 


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

I have just rang the vets and got an emergency appointment for him, will let you know how he's doing 


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Just been to the vets they said mumble has a URI And gave him an injection, my boyfriends sisters rat also has URI and is on medication that's actually for cows but works wonders for her girl, the vet said it is suitable for rats but for a bottle which will last longer then mumbles life span is £30 so me and my boyfriends sister are going to go halfs on getting a bottle for our babies  although the vet said it can be fatal I'm going to do everything possible to help, 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Poor Mumble. I was once given a medicine mainly for cows that I forget the name of now, it was for my rat who had a bad stroke and had lost most of his mobility. I hope his URI shifts, he doesn't need that along with a tender boy-area! Bless his wee soul.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Yeah does it begin with a t, 
He's not great unfortunately, I knew there was something wrong for a while but the vet I had been going to said he was fine but I knew he wasn't be just got worse and worse, I'm glad I changed vets though they take our animals more seriously, hopefully mumbles better soon, the vet did say to me it's never going to go completely but even if it just calms down a bit ill be happy, 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Aww yeah, hopefully just a myco flare-up that resulted in a URI, with luck he won't have another flare-up, it's sad that it's just so common in our ratties. I find that when any of my rats aren't feeling very well, a dish of yummy wet cat food perks their interest, it's a good way to get extra nutrition into them and give them a nice treat too. I can't remember for the life of me what the cow medicine was called (I probably couldn't pronounce it anway lol.) At least Mumble is lucky enough to have a mummy who takes the best care of his health, it always makes me happy when people go out of their way to help their rats, so many people don't do anything when one is ill 'cause they figure they can just get another one, plenty of people would just have an aggressive rat put down as well instead of trying hard to get a neuter/spay. How anyone can have rats and not get immensely attached to them is beyond me.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

PurpleGirl said:


> Aww yeah, hopefully just a myco flare-up that resulted in a URI, with luck he won't have another flare-up, it's sad that it's just so common in our ratties. I find that when any of my rats aren't feeling very well, a dish of yummy wet cat food perks their interest, it's a good way to get extra nutrition into them and give them a nice treat too. I can't remember for the life of me what the cow medicine was called (I probably couldn't pronounce it anway lol.) At least Mumble is lucky enough to have a mummy who takes the best care of his health, it always makes me happy when people go out of their way to help their rats, so many people don't do anything when one is ill 'cause they figure they can just get another one, plenty of people would just have an aggressive rat put down as well instead of trying hard to get a neuter/spay. How anyone can have rats and not get immensely attached to them is beyond me.


Yeah I'm hoping he can get through this, he's a strong little guy  and haha I can't pronounce it either, the vet even had trouble saying it haha! Aw thank you  my boys are my world, I do my best to give them more then what I can, they definitely deserve it that's for sure!
And I completely agree! I don't know how anyone could leave them to suffer, and how some don't get attached to them, even my boyfriend who's seen so
Many animals pass even gets attached when he knows how much it hurts, their not just a pet they are like family, don't you think? 
To me it's like a parent not giving their child medication for an illness if you know what I mean! 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Totally get you. They definitely are family, I don't plan on having any human children and my rats are my babies, haha. They mean just as much to me as my family. I'll never understand how anyone can look at their sweet little faces and not fall in love! My fiancé and I have left ourselves broke for a week a few times to make sure we'd definitely be able to take a sickly rat to the vet; we're trying desperately to save up to get married too but we managed to scrape together the money to get Magnus neutered rather than give up on him. My mum thinks we're utterly insane but our brood are so important to us, it might've been money we technically couldn't afford at all but there's no way we could deny him the best chance to get better. I'd do everything in my power if we urgently needed something for them; they're all more than worth it!


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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

Romeo's issues started to stop a few days after his neuter and he never starts fights or bites me now.
Mumbles aggression COULD go away completely. Romeo is a perfect little guy now, he was never nice, not even when I bought him but now he's a sweetheart.


Just want to throw it out there that if he gets to where he is literally gasping for air steroids oral or shot could save him and help him breath till he's well.
Dont give up if he gets really bad, get him steroids.
Also keep a eye on his feet if they turn blue he isn't getting enough air and you'll need to take him back in.
Uri's dont usually cause abdominal breathing though is what worries me here. The antibiotics will help regardless of what type of infection but I'd be more willing to say it was his lungs.
Mumble's breathing is identical to how Jasper's was This is a video of how he was breathing and a example of abdominal breathing so you can compare.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5QhyXWQdy74M2w4YVNrT1dXVEE/edit?usp=sharing

I'm sorry he's having issues and now I'm worried about your baby. :C
I'll keep him in my thoughts.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

PurpleGirl said:


> Totally get you. They definitely are family, I don't plan on having any human children and my rats are my babies, haha. They mean just as much to me as my family. I'll never understand how anyone can look at their sweet little faces and not fall in love! My fiancé and I have left ourselves broke for a week a few times to make sure we'd definitely be able to take a sickly rat to the vet; we're trying desperately to save up to get married too but we managed to scrape together the money to get Magnus neutered rather than give up on him. My mum thinks we're utterly insane but our brood are so important to us, it might've been money we technically couldn't afford at all but there's no way we could deny him the best chance to get better. I'd do everything in my power if we urgently needed something for them; they're all more than worth it!


Yeah I'm the same, even if I have no money I will find a way to get it so they have what they need, they are family completely, 


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Jokerfest said:


> Romeo's issues started to stop a few days after his neuter and he never starts fights or bites me now.
> Mumbles aggression COULD go away completely. Romeo is a perfect little guy now, he was never nice, not even when I bought him but now he's a sweetheart.
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah his aggression is not even nearly as bad and that's after two days, 
I got up this morning to check on him his breathing is still bad but feet aren't blue, I'm going to keep an eye on him and if he hasn't improved over the weekend I will be taking him on Monday morning, is there any thing I can give him to help until then? I feel so sorry for him, 
I'd never give up on him don't worry, he will always get every bit of care he needs  he's my little fighter so I'm just hoping he can power through it, he doesn't seem like he's all there and keeps doing this weird like twitchy thing from his back end, 



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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

You can try dark chocolate it's a stimulant and can have anti-inflammatory properties.

Can he walk on his back legs? Does the twitching seem involuntary?
That sounds really odd.
Does he pick up food okay on his own and stand up?


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

The twitching does sound strange, is there any way you could get a video of that too? How is he otherwise? Poor Mumble can't get a break!


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

He's holding food fine but is not eating as much as he used to, but that could be because of op? and walking he's okay but keeps dragging his back legs now and again like he's stretching, the twitching doesn't seem like its him doing it, I'm out ATM but I will get a video of him when I get back, otherwise he seems fine, he's still very sleepy though,


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

If he's dragging his back legs out he's probably still in pain, most likely is cramps. He'll pick up soon though, hopefully he's on Metacam. If not, get some from the vets.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

I have him on metacam ATM but doesn't seem to be helping him, I'm at my parents ATM and my boyfriends mum is looking after him, she text me saying that she's been checking on him every hour and he hasn't changed which in a way is good (wouldn't want him to be worse) but he doesn't look great in the picture she sent me, 


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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

The stretching is pain related, how much metacham is he on?
I suppose the twitching could also be a pain reflex.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Yeah that's true and I've been giving him 0.2ml once a day as I don't want to give him to much because its what I had left over from another animal, 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

That's double the dose my vet recommended, maybe you could cut it down a little bit in case he's reacting to it a bit funny; the vet told me that a rat reacting kinda poorly to metacam will probably have loose wet poop, is Mumble's poop looking normal? I'm inclined to think the twitching is discomfort-related, maybe he's just having a hard time getting comfortable; a couple of days ago, my Magnus lay down on his side and stuck his back legs straight out and in the air, he seemed to find that comfy! Also, the respiratory problem will be knocking the strength out of him too so I'd expect him to be looking a bit sorry for himself.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

His poop is completely fine, I will cut the dose down, I haven't given him any today because he's looking a lot better, no stretching legs like before or twitching from what I have seen, will see what he's like later on, I put him back in with blue today and they are currently curled up in their house together, mumbles breathing is still not good so going to steam the bathroom later and see if that can help him  other then his breathing and sneezing he's looking pretty good, he's drinking a lot not sure about how much he's eaten as he's thrown his food about a lot but by that I can see that he has been eating, 


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## Jokerfest (Sep 25, 2012)

Being back with Blue will prolly help him heal much faster I'm sure he's loving having his buddy to snuggle up to.
I'm glad his pain is okay. I agree he could have a bit of a reaction to the meds so if he doesn't need it dont give him that much.
Do you have any baby food? I know it's not really necessary but I'm a worrier and when my babies are sick I like to give them a bit of extra nutrition and I'm sure he'd love it too. Nothing like some good food to lift the spirits.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Haha yeah I have some baby food, I know he loves it so I know he'll be a happy boy haha  I'm not going to give him any metacam today just checked on him and he's moving completely fine now, think the pain has eased a lot  blue seems to be cheering mumble up so its all good right now  
Still keeping an eye on mumbles breathing, going to ring vets tomorrow and see what they say  


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Just took both rats with me in the bathroom while I got a shower to help mumbles breathing, anyway I got out and my boyfriend got in and as I was sat on the floor cuddling mumble I looked up and blue was stood in the bottom of the shower (while my boyfriend was getting a shower) washing himself, he actually looked like he was washing his hair hahaha! Was so cute! 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

LMAO, that's awesome. I'd love to have my rats scampering at my feet in the shower but I wouldn't want them to attempt to climb me and shred me to bits with their razor claws, haha. I hope the shower steam helped Mumble a bit, I'm glad he seems better today.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

It was the funniest thing ive ever seen! 
If mumble was on the floor he would of
Climbed up me but blue like to explore more haha, 


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Other then his breathing (which I'm getting sent that cow medicine for) he's completely fine and a happy boy today, 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Excellent.


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

How is Mumble getting along now? Hope his behaviour has changed!


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

He's a little diamond, he still has his moments but not even nearly as bad as what he was! His breathing Etc has not gotten any better so just waiting in some new meds, so other then his breathing he's completely fine,

What im very shocked to see is that mumble seems to still be the alpha, 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Blue might try to take over the top-dog position at some point but for now, he's probably still a bit nervous to attempt being the boss as he'll still be getting used to Mumble's new behaviour. I'm glad he's Ok apart from the breathing thing, hopefully that will shift soon too.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Yeah think ill take him and blue to vets Monday (blues started sneezing a little) just to see how their both doing but yeah other then that they're both very happy little chappies! 


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Just thought this was a cute vid of mumble, 
Shows how much sweeter he is now aswel http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d7hFdeCyCVs


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Haha, that's awesome! My Freyja does that, if you stick a finger under her nose while she's washing she will start frantically washing you too, lol. He looks in good shape and it's nice to see him not biting you!

My Magnus is slowly getting a bit better too, we can have him out for 10 minutes at a time now without being nipped, which is very good for him.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

That great news! I'm glad he's progressing well!  bet it's so much better for you 

Yeah mumbles doing great I can't believe how much and fast he's changed! 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

10 minutes doesn't sound long but considering Magnus was snapping at us within 30 seconds before, it's definitely progress; we still have a lot of trust training to do with him, as he came from a crap pet shop bred from a feeder line and his friend we got at the same time died soon after, he never really bonded with us and his hormonal change had steadily worsened, so he doesn't really have a connection with us yet. Hopefully we'll be able to build one now that his urge to bite and get territorial is fading. He developed a little sore 3 days ago where one of the cuts was but he's on Baytril and it's not gotten any worse, just keeping an eye on it.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm sure you'll make a bond soon, technically you have since you have rescued him  and exactly, ten minutes is a huge difference! And aw bless him! Hopefully the baytrill will sort it out soon! Bless his little cotton socks haha! 
He came from a bad home and your giving him a chance and a great life so even when he was snapping he would still be forever grateful to you, and now all his hormones aren't all over the place he can actually show you how grateful he is  


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## ratclaws (Nov 11, 2012)

Yeahhh, you'll find that sometimes if the rat was a strong alpha they'll keep their status. My girl Storm had a spay and was straight back in as an alpha within the first 2 days post-surgery haha! Glad he's doing well.


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Aw thanks Ratfinx, I hope so, he's such a handsome boy, I'm dying to give him proper cuddles! He's still doing fine, we put some honey right on the sore spot and are continuing with Baytril, as long as it doesn't get worse I'm not letting myself get too worried; if I think it looks bigger at any point or it affects his behaviour, I'll be straight back to the vet. The difference in him is very noticeable, he's not quite at the cuddling stage yet but not spinning round on his hackles to bite us is a great start!


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

ratclaws said:


> Yeahhh, you'll find that sometimes if the rat was a strong alpha they'll keep their status. My girl Storm had a spay and was straight back in as an alpha within the first 2 days post-surgery haha! Glad he's doing well.


Thank you  yeah he seems to be getting knocked down a peg but keeps coming back to the top haha


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

PurpleGirl said:


> Aw thanks Ratfinx, I hope so, he's such a handsome boy, I'm dying to give him proper cuddles! He's still doing fine, we put some honey right on the sore spot and are continuing with Baytril, as long as it doesn't get worse I'm not letting myself get too worried; if I think it looks bigger at any point or it affects his behaviour, I'll be straight back to the vet. The difference in him is very noticeable, he's not quite at the cuddling stage yet but not spinning round on his hackles to bite us is a great start!


Exactly it's a start he can only get better, although blue hasn't been spayed he's not the cuddly type either, mumble kind of is but on his terms only, I'm glad to hear he's doing well  


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

I've been trying to avoid bathing mumble because of his stitches but he got so smelly and dirty even a baby wipe couldn't cover the stink so I gave him a quick bath and he didn't seem to mind it, do you think it was a bad idea?
I know I really should of asked before but yeah, he seems okay but I'm now worried about his stitches, 

And has anyone who's had their rats neutered thought their rat looked different, mumbles face looks really different to how it used to, almost a soft and calm look, I'm not complaining as I love him no matter what he looks like, 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

I don't think a little water would do any damage, especially if you've dried him off properly and he seemed fine with it. 

Magnus' coat looks healthier after his neuter, the heavy grease he was producing has really eased off and he's almost shiny again; it's still a bit odd seeing his testicle area looking so much smaller, lol. I can't say he's changed in the face but he does seem calmer overall.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Yeah I suppose not haha,

And yeah mumbles coats a lot softer now, but everyone's saying he looks different, hmm random haha 


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

just a quick update on mumble jumble, 
hes doing brilliant he hasnt shown any aggression towards me or my boyfriend, hes doing really well, blue seems to be loving the fact mumbles calm and blues now able to be more sociable rather then hiding all the time, 

mumbles breathing still isnt getting much better ive been steaming him everyother day and that seems to help him a bit, hopefully his meds come soon,


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

Just a quick snap of how much better he looks 


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## PurpleGirl (Oct 12, 2012)

Great to hear! He looks healthy and happy.  I'm glad he's turned around so quickly, Blue must be so happy now, haha.

Magnus is still biting but it's taking him much longer to get to that stage, so we're still hopeful; the vet said it could take up to a couple of months for real improvement in some rats. I really hope he gets out of it! The little sore on his diminishing scrotum is also almost gone too.


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## Ratfinx (Feb 19, 2013)

PurpleGirl said:


> Great to hear! He looks healthy and happy.  I'm glad he's turned around so quickly, Blue must be so happy now, haha.
> 
> Magnus is still biting but it's taking him much longer to get to that stage, so we're still hopeful; the vet said it could take up to a couple of months for real improvement in some rats. I really hope he gets out of it! The little sore on his diminishing scrotum is also almost gone too.


Yeah blue is a lot happier now! It's great having my boys back

I'm glad Magnus' sore is going down, hopefully it will clear up completely quickly, I'm sure he will eventually be fine,  bless him he's such a doll face! 


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