# sick rat, thanksgiving weekend, I have some pet antibiotics?



## chick.change (Nov 25, 2011)

I just got in the rat world, with two males, approximately 2-3 months old. One has started acting lethargic, with strained movement, and mostly lidded eyes. It is Thanksgiving, and there will be no access to a vet for a bit. I was doing some research and It presents like a secondary infection, there is some rapid movement of the chest area. 
I have been trying to keep him warm, letting him eat banana, peanut butter, and sugar water in a hand feeding situation. Okay the crux of the situation, I have sulfatrim, cipiroflaxin, albon, cephalexin, and clazamox, all perscribed to cats or dogs. What is best for this situation, any advice would be appreciated. We dont want to loose Vanilla...my daughter and I are desperate.


----------



## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

I know ciprofloxacin is safe for rats, but I do not know what doseage. Someone else should be along soon with more (better!) advice.

Also, ciprofloxacin is primarily to prevent infections such as sepsis, which come from wounds, but it can help with other things as well and is better than nothing for sure.


----------



## chick.change (Nov 25, 2011)

I looked it up and found a site that said 15-20 mg per lb. I dont know if its important to mention but he was liberated from feeder stock.


----------



## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Doesn't mean a thing, pet stock and feeder stock are usually the same rats.

Does your boy have noises in his lungs when you listen to his sides pressed to your ear? Use 2 hands, its called rat-phoning. URI or respiratory infection is the most common cause of illness.


----------



## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

A pill or two of antibiotics will likely not be a full course. Unless your vet agrees to give you the exact same drug you will have just created immunity to that particular antibiotic . The rapid movement of the chest and lethargy is what I find particularly concerning. Those are serious symptoms.

Many vets are open the Friday after thanksgiving, and you should also be able to find an emergency vet if all else fails.


----------



## chick.change (Nov 25, 2011)

*Sick rat died thanksgiving night,*

We hand fed him banana and peanut butter, and warm sugar water, and kept him warm all night, but he was gone when I got up in the morning he was gone. Poor Vanilla. Okay so here is the new issue, Gimlet, our other guy has exhibited the normal sneezing he has done since the beginning. He does have a slightly red nostril, seems fine, but a little depressed. Do I need to get him to the vet, before I get a new friend for him. 
I held him up to my ear and there is no wheezing. We are trying to give him a good amount of attention.


----------



## TheHermit (Nov 15, 2011)

I'm very sorry for your loss. It's so unfair when they can't make it into a long life. It seems like you really care for them though, so I'm sure the life he had was comfy and loving, and he'll be telling friends all about it across the rainbow bridge.

I don't know if what Vanilla had was viral or contagious in any way. I had two boys that sneezed out that nasty red stuff for their full two years of life, so unless he is exhibiting other symptoms of illness, his lungs may just be infected and you may need a small prescription of antibiotics to enhance his quality of life.
And yes, definitely get a friend! The depression is because Vanilla is gone - I assume they were brothers, or at least had a chance to bond a little in whatever they were in at the pet store. Rats are very compassionate that way and I have seen my own rat starve himself voluntarily because his brother died. If Vanilla was in the cage with Gimlet during his passing, Gimlet may be grieving quite a bit. 
In the mean time, offer him lots of snuggles and healthy treats and shoulder rides. Let him know friends can come from different species, and even family too. He'll understand eventually that he has a reason to be a happy ratty - owners that really care about him.


----------



## Nightflight11 (Nov 26, 2011)

The red stuff is porphyrin from myco (_Mycoplasma pulmonis)_. You can go to your local vetrinary store and buy powder tablets of amoxycillan. Make sure they're powder; as in, they have a "shell" with the powder form of the drug inside. Buy one or two; they should each cost less than a dollar (here, a single pill is 45 cents). You only need a couple really. 

Take something your rat likes -- I suggest peanut butter -- and for the first few doses put two dashes of the antibiotic on. You want to hit it hard. From there, for about two weeks for twice a day, feed it the bit of peanut butter with the dash of amoycillin in it.

Going to a vet will cost you a ton, and they'll probably give you a liquid form you have to force your rats to drink (the first few days they may like it, but from there they'll get sick of the taste and you'll have to force them to drink it). Don't worry about "overdosing" your rat too much on amoycillin; it's an antibiotic and there's really no side affects. Just make sure you stick with it for at least two weeks, or else the myco will grow an immunity to the amoxicillin and you'll have to get a different type of medicine.

I am sincerely sorry for the loss of your rattie, it's always disheartening 
Good luck with this guy. Myco is rarely every fatal, and it sounds like you caught it early. All rats have myco, but it's usually in a dormant state (as in, it isn't actively affecting your rat). You can't cure it, but it's treatable. It may flare up again in the future, so keep amoxycillin on hand.


EDIT:
Sorry, I think I need to clear something up. When you get the pill, the "shell" is in two pieces. Hold it upright (otherwise the medicine will spill out) and wiggle one of the shell pieces off. Give a dash of the medicine twice a day, about 12 hours apart, for two weeks. For the first few doses use two dashes so you can hit it hard.


----------



## Nightflight11 (Nov 26, 2011)

Oh, and one more thing -- the reason I suggest peanut butter is because it's a treat. Mix in the amox well and only offer only a little (to make sure they get the full dose). Too much peanut butter can choke your rat, and I suggest offering them something to drink at the same time to help wash it down. Make sure whatever you give them is a treat that they look forward to every day.


----------



## smesyna (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm very sorry for your loss 

Amoxicillin is a prescription drug, it is illegal to buy OTC. It also may not be the right antibiotic. Sometimes vet bills can be a little pricey but seeing the vet is part of pet ownership. Liquids are given by the vet, yes, but that allows precise dosing. Also liquids can be mixed in baby food, jelly, etc.


----------



## chick.change (Nov 25, 2011)

*Thanks everyone for assistance with my sick Thanksgiving guy.*

We just went and got another that is also three to four months. We are doing the early introduction right now. I really do like these little guys, is two rats a sufficient size for a colony given that we have built a habitat that is about four ft by 2 ft with three shelves.


----------



## Nightflight11 (Nov 26, 2011)

Amoxycillin isn't prescription, at least not where I live (KS, USA). I only suggest going to the vet supply store instead of a vet because it does the same thing and in the end saves you _lots_ of money, and there's nothing wrong with saving money when a vet isn't needed. Amoxycillin is what our rats were given, it did a good job, and we were told to, from then on, get the tablets from the vet supply store. 

Myco is very common and you don't need to see a vet every single time your rat gets a sniffling nose. Vet visits ARE a part of pet ownership, but if you save a bill now from something minor you can have that money later for the more serious problems. However, in light of your recent loss, you may want to get your rat checked out anyway in order to make sure it isn't at risk of something serious, either. That is up to you.


----------



## wheeljack (Mar 17, 2011)

Nightflight11 said:


> The red stuff is porphyrin from myco (_Mycoplasma pulmonis)_. You can go to your local vetrinary store and buy powder tablets of amoxycillan. Make sure they're powder; as in, they have a "shell" with the powder form of the drug inside. Buy one or two; they should each cost less than a dollar (here, a single pill is 45 cents). You only need a couple really.
> 
> Take something your rat likes -- I suggest peanut butter -- and for the first few doses put two dashes of the antibiotic on. You want to hit it hard. From there, for about two weeks for twice a day, feed it the bit of peanut butter with the dash of amoycillin in it.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but this is absolutely horrible advice.
-Amoxicillian does most definitely have a dose at which it becomes toxic so you can indeed OD your rat on it.
-ALL antibiotics have the potential for side-effects
-I don't know where you are, but there is nowhere in the US where you can buy antibiotics for rats in a store that are actually quality controlled.
-You need a full 21 - 30 day course of any AB for it to be effective which is more than a 'few pills'
-amoxicillian is not very effective against myco
-we don't even know if this is myco just based on her post. It could easily be SDA, CarB + Myco, Sendai or any number of things that require Batryil, doxy and/or zithromax.

OP, best thing to do is take your rat to a qualified vet and perhaps print out this guide to take along: http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm There are a few AB's in there that say a 7-14 day course is adequate but you'll find 21-30 days is necessary to fully take out a stubborn infection.

If your rat only has myco (as diagnosed by a vet, not by us over the internet), then get him/her on a 3-4 week course of AB's and use that 3-4 weeks to quarantine a new rat as a companion. If your vet thinks it's viral or something bacterial then wait till your rat is healthy before getting a companion.


----------



## Llygoden_Fawr (Nov 27, 2011)

Aww I hope your little one gets better soon!!


----------



## Nightflight11 (Nov 26, 2011)

wheeljack said:


> I'm sorry but this is absolutely horrible advice.
> -Amoxicillian does most definitely have a dose at which it becomes toxic so you can indeed OD your rat on it.
> -ALL antibiotics have the potential for side-effects
> -I don't know where you are, but there is nowhere in the US where you can buy antibiotics for rats in a store that are actually quality controlled.
> ...


What I know is what was suggested to me by a vet. However, professionals are often wrong. I suppose you should disregard my advice, as it seems it's faulty (and I will be finding myself a new vet).


----------



## wheeljack (Mar 17, 2011)

Nightflight11 said:


> Amoxycillin isn't prescription, at least not where I live (KS, USA). I only suggest going to the vet supply store instead of a vet because it does the same thing and in the end saves you _lots_ of money, and there's nothing wrong with saving money when a vet isn't needed. Amoxycillin is what our rats were given, it did a good job, and we were told to, from then on, get the tablets from the vet supply store.
> 
> Myco is very common and you don't need to see a vet every single time your rat gets a sniffling nose. Vet visits ARE a part of pet ownership, but if you save a bill now from something minor you can have that money later for the more serious problems. However, in light of your recent loss, you may want to get your rat checked out anyway in order to make sure it isn't at risk of something serious, either. That is up to you.


It's legal to buy for fish and birds but the majority of those ab's you can buy from bird and fish supply companies are manufactured overseas and you have no idea what's in them or if they've been kept in temperature controlled climates. You are also not a vet, nor is the OP and nor are most of us on this forum. It's irresponsible to advocate buying and treating an illness that is not diagnosed by a vet. And just so you know, Amox does NOT attack myco directly so it is of limited use. Baytril and Doxy should always be the first line of defense against a suspected myco flare except in the case of very young animals.


----------



## Nightflight11 (Nov 26, 2011)

wheeljack said:


> It's legal to buy for fish and birds but the majority of those ab's you can buy from bird and fish supply companies are manufactured overseas and you have no idea what's in them or if they've been kept in temperature controlled climates. You are also not a vet, nor is the OP and nor are most of us on this forum. It's irresponsible to advocate buying and treating an illness that is not diagnosed by a vet. And just so you know, Amox does NOT attack myco directly so it is of limited use. Baytril and Doxy should always be the first line of defense against a suspected myco flare except in the case of very young animals.


I really am sorry if I was spreading bad advice, it was what I was told by my vet after visiting him for the second time concerning myco. As I said in my last post, OP, disregard my advice.


----------



## TobyRat (May 24, 2011)

Nightflight11 said:


> I really am sorry if I was spreading bad advice, it was what I was told by my vet after visiting him for the second time concerning myco. As I said in my last post, OP, disregard my advice.


Yes, amoxicillin is ineffective agaisnt mycoplasma, but is sometimes given to help with secondary infections. If your vet actually recommended you go to a supply store for medications then I’d definitely find a new vet! 

Also, you always want to calculate the dose of any medication. Even if you don’t overdose the rat, you could be giving less than the therapeutic range and therefore it won’t be fully effective against the bacteria and may also build resistance.


----------

