# Petco and Petsmart not selling rats anymore



## Fabio

So I tried to search for this discussion on the forums, but didn't find anything so I hope it's okay to post. Petsmart and Petco told me that they are no longer selling any rats and haven't since the end of January this year, and they have no plans in the near future to get any rats in. I was told this was applicable to all Petsmarts and Petcos. Sure enough, I went to all the stores in a 50 mile radius and none have any rats and all the rat booklets and labels were removed except one Petsmart who still had some from the last delivery of rats that were unsold. And I was told that any Petsmarts/Petcos that got rats from their own breeding stock, etc will still have rats because they are not from the supplier.

I am both happy and sad because at least for these pet stores, no more rats will have to suffer. (There were many times I see kids carrying those small habitrails and getting rats or hamsters.... Really sad and I wanted to say something so badly). But the thing is the only place left to get rats is from snake stores because those are the only 2 big box pet stores in my area and I have very few smaller pet stores that don't carry rats. Breeders are also not near me, so now I have barely any places to get rats. It's also disappointing because some of the sweetest and my most trusted rats I got from Petsmart.

So does anyone know is this is a state thing? I am located in California. Or if this is a regional thing? I would assume if it's USA-wide, that more people would be posting about not being able to buy rats haha.


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## Gribouilli

I know there are states and cities where Petco and Petsmart stopped selling rats. I can't remember of the top of my head which states/cities. I believe it came to be after an horrible horrible undercover investigation at rat mills and Petsmart stores where feeders (rats and mice) where frozen alive, rats were left to die in excruciating pain, and some animals throw into trash cans full of excitements while still alive...if you want to see the pics and videos Google "rat mills undercover investigation". The fact that less and less petstores are carry live feeders or pet rats is really great news as it means less suffering in rat mills. Sure rat mills will always exist to some extend but less suffering (less rats produced as pets) is always better than more suffering (more rats produced as pets). This is why I always say people to keep away from pet store rats. Not only they come from horrible places, but they are often sick, have genetic defects, or behavioral issues. It is so worth it to drive even hours to get your rats from a good breeder or a rat rescue. It will save you hundreds of dollars in future vet costs.


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## InuLing

My petsmart still has rats and they take very good care of them. The people who work there take very good care of them and I know one person in particular who is a rat fanatic and has her own mischief so she won't let them be mistreated. I was talking to someone about them today and she said for now they're only carying males for whatever odd reason though. Petsmart also screens potential buyers/adopters and will refuse sale if they think there is a remote chance that the rats could become feeders.

Neither petsmart or petco sell feeders in my area. Snake owners have to get their food off craigslist or feed frozen.


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## moonkissed

I know and it is awesome!!

It varies from area to area, I assume based on where the stores are getting their stock from.
There are tons of rumors flying as to why and even some employees saying silly things but the only semi official thing I could find was an article stating that the mills that were supplying both stores had alot of abuse, neglect, cruelty discovered in an investigation and that the stores have decided to stop buying from them. Sadly who knows if they will begin again once they find a new supplier or when the news dies down  I hope not.

IDK where u r located at in Cali but the state has a ton of rat breeders in it. As rat shows are located there. (/jealous) so you have options of some really great show breeders even!

Honestly putting alittle money aside and taking a weekend trip of a few hours drive, maybe stay the night at a hotel and sight see an area near you to get a rat sounds like a fabulous plan to me  But even driving 2-3 hours isn't really too bad to get a rat. If you share the city you are in I may know of a breeder or two. I know some great breeders in Cali.


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## CJMoore

I hope my petco stops selling them. The cashier hoards rats and 'saves' them from the store. It will make it a little harder for her to get a hold of them. I have eight of her unsocialized and unhealthy rats as rescues because they were taken from her. -_-


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## nintendoremi

Middle Tennessee Petsmarts, at the very least, still carry rats. My experience is that they've started carrying only one gender per location.


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## Modernstar

CJMoore said:


> I hope my petco stops selling them. The cashier hoards rats and 'saves' them from the store. It will make it a little harder for her to get a hold of them. I have eight of her unsocialized and unhealthy rats as rescues because they were taken from her. -_-


Holy crap that's awful :'c

In my state (Oregon) they don't sell rats at either Petco or Petsmart, thank god. Just thinking about rat hoarding makes me really upset!


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## cookiebear<3

Western North Carolina Petsmarts do still carry rats, though they've only sold one gender at a time since I first got into rats years ago. They're somewhat neglected.. You know, small cage, not really well handled- the only time I was concerned for the welfare was when I noticed one of the rats in the "display" was having serious diarrhea and nobody seemed to go take care of that issue after I reported it (just a customer for goods). They do feed their rats oxbow, on pretty decent bedding (carefresh) and they have igloos, cage mates and occasionally chew toys. They have an "adoption" sheet if you buy an animal, and state that none are to be sold as feeders with a price higher than you see for feeder rats, they do sell frozen though. The quality of the genetics in the line was poor. I had a heart rat from there, the only pet store rat I've ever got- his name was bear. Unfortunately he ended up with hind leg degeneration at about one year and congestive heart failure. 
That was a fun rant


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## catty-ratty

moonkissed said:


> I know and it is awesome!!
> 
> Honestly putting a little money aside and taking a weekend trip of a few hours drive...But even driving 2-3 hours isn't really too bad to get a rat.


I would have no problem driving to get a rat. The only problem for me would be this. 

No matter where I get a rat, I want the rat that is interested in me first. From what I can tell, most breeders _understandably_ don't allow visitors into the rattery. I'm not keen on buying a rat that hasn't been born and I haven't even met yet. I want one that is a good match for me. That could turn into an awful lot of driving _if_ a breeder was willing let bring out rats to let me meet them individually or would allow me into the rattery. That could turn into a lot of exposure to potential diseases for the rats, quarantining and longer waits for anyone who does want the rat I passed up. 

And as of now, the one _legitimate _rescue I know of in my state might not even exist anymore. The last I saw, she is closed until further notice.


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## moonkissed

catty-ratty said:


> I would have no problem driving to get a rat. The only problem for me would be this.
> 
> No matter where I get a rat, I want the rat that is interested in me first. From what I can tell, most breeders _understandably_ don't allow visitors into the rattery. I'm not keen on buying a rat that hasn't been born and I haven't even met yet. I want one that is a good match for me. That could turn into an awful lot of driving _if_ a breeder was willing let bring out rats to let me meet them individually or would allow me into the rattery. That could turn into a lot of exposure to potential diseases for the rats, quarantining and longer waits for anyone who does want the rat I passed up.
> 
> And as of now, the one _legitimate _rescue I know of in my state might not even exist anymore. The last I saw, she is closed until further notice.


Yeah I can't imagine a good breeder letting one visit and check out the babies first.

I guess just differences, I don't really understand needing to check out and let the rat "pick you" type of thing. 

From my experience, and I will say I breed and handle lots and lots and lots of babies and see many grow up into adults. 
In almost all cases, getting a well bred baby you are not going to have to worry about looking for temperament or such
And handling a baby for that little bit of time is probably not going to give you any real idea on how their personality is.  
Infact many babies from a good litter are all going to have a fairly even personality. I find at around 8 weeks old rats kindof go through a temperament swift and then their true personality really starts to shine. But it is not likely to tell you as a baby things like how hyper vs how cuddly they will be or whatever. 

I know some pet owners idk believe in mystical fate drawn connections, I've been there  

Personally though I'd rather have a rat that I knew came from a humane place, that was well bred for health and temperament.


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## catty-ratty

moonkissed said:


> In almost all cases, getting a well bred baby you are not going to have to worry about looking for temperament or such
> And handling a baby for that little bit of time is probably not going to give you any real idea on how their personality is.


I am by no means arguing with you, only relating my own personal experience and those of the many people I talked to at my past job.

First of all, I have never had a rat from a breeder, so I don't have the experience to either agree or disagree. I'm not qualified to make that argument either way. 

Most of the people I talked to at my last job 'shop' around for a good fit. Admittedly, when they shop for a specific breed, they shopped at a breed specific rescue. Often, the breed specific rescues also rescue the mixes. Although I can't give any statistics concerning adoption rats of pure breeds as opposed to mixes, I can say I talked to plenty of people who adopted the mix. Sometimes over the one with papers. But I also can't say that at the time they adopted whether or not any with papers were available. 

One thing I do know about those who buy from breeders, they want to meet the parents of the puppy they may or may not buy. With rats and the many potential diseases, as you know that would be difficult. 

As for me personally, meeting them first is not a _major_ priority, but I do prefer it. However, in my personal experience with dog owners, meeting the puppy and/ or at least the parents is a priority before actually buying. 

The breeders I've talked with and known request a deposit before breeding. If the first person in line decides against a puppy, the next person in line has the opportunity to get the puppy.

If obtaining a rat from a pet store becomes less and less available, it seems to me that this issue is something that breeders may have to figure out how to deal with. 

As a breeder, what is your point of view?


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## artgecko

I don't think most rat breeders require a deposit before a litter is born... They may require one if you tell them you want "x rat", then to hold t hat rat and not let another person adopt it, they may ask for one. 

I would just say that you need to be very specific with any breeder and let them know that you want a certain personality in your next pups... tell them what you are looking for and say that coat color or markings aren't as particular to you. I'm sure they get a lot of requests for the "pretty" or "flashy" pups, but a solid black or agouti pup that has a stellar personality may not be as quickly adopted. 

I do know that most breeders have a waiting list, so if you are interested, you can give them your name and they will hold a spot for you (i.e. you are third on the list so you get to pick third). 

Another option would be asking around to see if any breeders have does that are being retired from breeding. They may be willing to let you adopt a pair of does for far less than pups and you'd be giving them a loving pet home... I know this is common practice in the purebred cat world. Breeders require studs and queens that don't breed well or didn't make it in the show ring (or after their 1-2 litters). Adopting adult rats, you'd know the personality for sure and know that they were well cared for beforehand. 

Some feeder breeders will allow you to come to their location to pick rats (if you want pets).. This would also give you the ability to check their setup and living conditions... Not all feeder breeders are good, but there may be one near you that takes care of their colony, breeds for temperament, etc. I know of some feeder breeders in my area that will allow this (but that is not always the case).


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## catty-ratty

I'll keep that in mind. Thanks


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## Rat Daddy

*One group of special rat pups in NJ*

I didn't notice any rats at my local big box pet shop here in NJ either... In fact, I didn't even see any rat food... not that I looked for it. 

On the up side for people in the mean time... my daughter and I _*might*_ be raising an accidental litter of rats from a really high quality breeder line... if it turns out that anyone might be interested in top notch rats raised and pre-socialized by me.

I was just thinking about ways to avoid doing this... but if there really is a need for some great rats to stop gap help people out, it might be a learning lesson for my daughter.

The pups would be Cloudy Rats great great great great nieces and nephews...















And Misty Rat's great nieces and nephews. 

https://vid.me/SgmU

They should be medium size in various colors and likely to be both regular and dumbo varieties. Mom's a black on white more or less hooded dumbo with a small blaze, she looks a lot like Misty except in black. Dad's from the same line, but we don't know who he is for sure so there could be some surprises in the batch.

Bunny is a really nice rat, she's been with us for only about a week and she already is pretty well bonded with us and has a thing for preening my teeth and lips. She's a little bit squirrely but that's to be expected as she's in a family way. Her intro and outdoor training are on hold for now.

Obviously, both Cloudy Rat and Misty Rat were/are both true shoulder rats and a third rat a friend adopted from the same breeder was also in great health and was going outdoors last I spoke to her... Cloud lived two years and never needed to see a vet and Misty is perfectly healthy.

Our breeder breeds excellent quality rats, and adopts out a few to people he knows, but doesn't pre-socialize them or apparently take adequate precautions to keep them from being pregnant.

So if someone is looking for breeder quality rats, from a line that's already produced two true shoulder rats, pre-socialized by my daughter and myself... in northern -central NJ... a half hour bus ride from Manhattan, 3 minutes from exit 12 on the NJ Turnpike. I think I might be able to help you...

My screw up, might just work out for a few people who can't find rats at the big box stores... And a few people with openings in their home and hearts might work out great for Bunny's pups. If interested, PM me. The pups should be available next month.... no forms or long waits... I haven't thought this through yet, but if there's enough interest and I go through with it, I'll likely charge about the same as the big box pet stores... say around $15.00 each to reward my daughter for the effort she will be putting in to socializing the babies... 

I'll be posting a thread on the subject... but the first people to get in touch with me will likely get the first priority. I can't see myself ever doing this again... so breeder quality rats from a strain that produces true shoulder rats, pre-socialized by me... is likely a one shot thing. Obviously... as there are no pups yet, I'm not officially adopting out any... yet, so I don't expect anyone to make any firm commitments at this point... I'd just like to know if anyone has a need or an interest...

I don't have the facilities to raise these pups right long term, so they have to go between 3 and 6 weeks old, depending on how fast they develop and how fast my daughter starts getting attached to them.. And yes, people will be allowed to meet their rats before adopting them if possible.


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## catty-ratty

If I didn't already have 5 rats and lived closer, I'd jump on this! 

Oh well!


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## moonkissed

catty-ratty said:


> I am by no means arguing with you, only relating my own personal experience and those of the many people I talked to at my past job.
> 
> First of all, I have never had a rat from a breeder, so I don't have the experience to either agree or disagree. I'm not qualified to make that argument either way.
> 
> Most of the people I talked to at my last job 'shop' around for a good fit. Admittedly, when they shop for a specific breed, they shopped at a breed specific rescue. Often, the breed specific rescues also rescue the mixes. Although I can't give any statistics concerning adoption rats of pure breeds as opposed to mixes, I can say I talked to plenty of people who adopted the mix. Sometimes over the one with papers. But I also can't say that at the time they adopted whether or not any with papers were available.
> 
> One thing I do know about those who buy from breeders, they want to meet the parents of the puppy they may or may not buy. With rats and the many potential diseases, as you know that would be difficult.
> 
> As for me personally, meeting them first is not a _major_ priority, but I do prefer it. However, in my personal experience with dog owners, meeting the puppy and/ or at least the parents is a priority before actually buying.
> 
> The breeders I've talked with and known request a deposit before breeding. If the first person in line decides against a puppy, the next person in line has the opportunity to get the puppy.
> 
> If obtaining a rat from a pet store becomes less and less available, it seems to me that this issue is something that breeders may have to figure out how to deal with.
> 
> As a breeder, what is your point of view?


Well real good dog breeders are actually fairly the same. By far most of the more high end at the top dog breeders you won't get to go and pick out a puppy. They have a wait list and you may if you are lucky get a few to pick from by color or such. Some breeders straight up pick the puppy for the new owner. And you will often pay a deposit for the puppy before it is even born.

For less than high end dog breeders, I think it is far different as there is less worry about disease. And you are also still likely to pay quite alot for a puppy. It is an investment! 

But I think really it is in our heads on if we connect or not and not quite as real. I mean there is definite a chance that we just won't bond with a pet but I think in truth it would take more than one meeting to decide I guess.

Idk honestly every single pet I have now (2 dogs, 7! cats, 4 guinea pigs) I didn't really do the whole meet and choose for any of them. I tend to just have them come into my life lol I did pick my one guinea pig and it was 100% based on her looks. One of my cats came from a rescue, we had to drive like over an hour to get her. I hadn't met her before. 


For rats, every breeder is different. I talk to other breeders often and really everyone does it differently lol Many that I know have waitlists and deposits. I have a waiting list. People contact me, fill out an application and if they are approved get put on my list. First person on the list gets first pic on gender/looks. They have to pay the deposit before the rats turn 3 weeks old to hold their spot or the next person gets their spot. 

But some stuff comes into play... lets say a litter is all siamese, well they all look the same so it doesn't really matter lol. They can pay the deposit right away based on gender.
But if the litter has different colors/markings then it goes based off my picks first. After I choose then it goes through the waiting list. I might not choose until the babies are older.

For example my currently litter, I had a huge waiting list for girls. Omg everyone wanted girls! My babies are born and I have 4 girls.... I am keeping 1-2 for sure. The babies are dumbo siamese. I contact the first person on my list when the babies are 2 days old and let her know the sexes and double check that she is still interested. She is and paid the deposit right away. I let everyone else on the list know the situation. The second person in line is waiting for me to choose if I want 1 or 2. 

So in this case, I wouldn't have any babies for anyone to meet anyways  I generally prefer people to be on my waiting list and have all the babies claimed ahead of time.


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## moonkissed

> I don't have the facilities to raise these pups right long term, so they have to go between 3 and 6 weeks old, depending on how fast they develop and how fast my daughter starts getting attached to them.. And yes, people will be allowed to meet their rats before adopting them if possible.


Please don't adopt them out until 6 weeks old. 5 weeks at the very earliest. 

3 weeks is far too young, babies should still be nursing at that age. They generally do not get weaned until 4 weeks old but still should be with mom as it is important to be with mom for more than just food.


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## Rat Daddy

I have a very long list of reasons that I shouldn't be doing this at all... one of which is no good place to raise the pups once they are weened. Remember, our adult rats free range in the house... 14 to 19 mixed sex pups free ranging the house would be a disaster in more ways than I can count. And with Bunny and Misty still not being through intros and my wife being rat phobic.... about the only plan that might work is that the pups find good forever homes fast.... I'm not about to keep the pups locked in tupperwares or crappy makeshift cages. I'm also not going to stick anyone with less than a great rat... I'd rather see them go a little young, than screw them up myself.

I'd honestly rather still not do this at all... but if there really are good homes looking for great pups out there... I suppose it might be worth giving it a go.


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## moonkissed

Rat Daddy said:


> I have a very long list of reasons that I shouldn't be doing this at all... one of which is no good place to raise the pups once they are weened. Remember, our adult rats free range in the house... 14 to 19 mixed sex pups free ranging the house would be a disaster in more ways than I can count. And with Bunny and Misty still not being through intros and my wife being rat phobic.... about the only plan that might work is that the pups find good forever homes fast.... I'm not about to keep the pups locked in tupperwares or crappy makeshift cages. I'm also not going to stick anyone with less than a great rat... I'd rather see them go a little young, than screw them up myself.
> 
> I'd honestly rather still not do this at all... but if there really are good homes looking for great pups out there... I suppose it might be worth giving it a go.


eh well in that case I personally think it would be wise NOT doing it. Definitely not in the best interest of the rats. 

You can build a bin cage or buy a cage? I don't see why that isn't an option. I'd just not take the mom in if you can't provide her and the babies the best situation. 

I also say this, I lost a baby in a tragic accident where she followed the adults up a shelf and fell. Babies are really pretty awesome climbers but not perfect. A purely free range household would likely be very dangerous for very tiny babies. And if the mom isn't in a cage she may be overly stressed and move her babies or worse....


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## Rat Daddy

Too late... The babies are being born as we speak... 6 so far... My daughter is wrapped around the aquarium cheering bunny on and petting her and poking the babies...


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## catty-ratty

Rat Daddy said:


> Too late... The babies are being born as we speak... 6 so far... My daughter is wrapped around the aquarium cheering bunny on and petting her and poking the babies...


Pictures Please!!


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## Rat Daddy

Bunny is housed in a 10 gallon aquarium we use as a travel cage. She would have been free range if intros with Misty hadn't gone pear shaped. I don't know if it's normal for a rat to let it's bonded humans pet her or touch the pups while she's having them... but I think it's a good sign.

Latest update, my daughter just revised the birth figure to less than 10... The breeder told me that his strain usually produces from 14 to 19 babies... He also told me she wasn't likely more than a week and a half pregnant... a week after we got her... and that she was only 8 weeks old... So let's hope he gets at least another one wrong.


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## Rat Daddy

Bunny didn't even show until two days ago. I'm too young to be a rat grandpa.


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## catty-ratty

Good luck with your daughter!


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## catty-ratty

One of the members here had an accidental litter several weeks ago. Her rat, Mocha let her touch the babies. The people commenting on the thread said that is a good sign.


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## Gribouilli

It is always recommended to lure the mom away before checking on the babies. The risk of stressing the mom (she could kill the babies as a result) or getting a bite is just too high to risk it.


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## Rat Daddy

I just went to explain that to my daughter who was feeding Bunny Nutella off a pretzel stick while she was nursing and getting her fingers licked... so I think I might be too late again... Just glad that we pretty much finished immersion the other day. Bunny had her babies right in the front glass as my daughter rooted her on pressing her nose against the glass and reaching in to skritch her... So far it looks like there are about 8 in all... So not all bad... things could have been worse.

My wife has agreed to let our daughter keep a pup... further limiting my options.


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## catty-ratty

Rat Daddy said:


> My wife has agreed to let our daughter keep a pup... further limiting my options.


And you said your wife doesn't like rats! Maybe she'll change her mind with a teeny tiny baby rat around??


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## Rat Daddy

She's actually rat phobic. Which is way beyond doesn't like rats... I mean standing on the chair screaming out there....

I think intellectually she can understand how my daughter loves her rats and how the rats love her, but when she sees one approaching she can't help but jump onto the furniture and start screaming.

Misty knows to keep her distance, but Amelia actually used to follow my wife around for fun. We have a pretty large house, with a system of doors and dividers to keep free ranging rats and wife apart most of the time.


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## catty-ratty

Rat Daddy said:


> Amelia actually used to follow my wife around for fun.


Anga does that to some of my cats that don't really want much to do with her. Especially Kenshen! It's the funniest thing to watch her chase the cat around the house! And the cat can't jump on anything to get away from her either 'cause Anga can just follow her! LOL


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## kksrats

Modernstar said:


> Holy crap that's awful :'c
> 
> In my state (Oregon) they don't sell rats at either Petco or Petsmart, thank god. Just thinking about rat hoarding makes me really upset!


Interesting considering I too live in Oregon and saw rats in a Petco no more than a month ago. Perhaps they were unsold from a previous shipment considering I don't go in there often.


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## nintendoremi

x


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## InuLing

I was handling Mocha's babies a couple times a day from day one. You want to be checking for milk bands anyways so you have to handle them to do that. Just make sure you leave the nest exactly how you found it. Bunny is more likely to be fine with you handling them if you show her that you respect her nest.


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## Gribouilli

InuLing said:


> I was handling Mocha's babies a couple times a day from day one. You want to be checking for milk bands anyways so you have to handle them to do that. Just make sure you leave the nest exactly how you found it. Bunny is more likely to be fine with you handling them if you show her that you respect her nest.


Correct. That is why I said "it is recommended to lure the mom away first...." Of course you need to handle them to check for milk band. No one said otherwise.


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## Rat Daddy

I tried to move the water bottle closer to her nest and that seemed to upset Bunny, so I moved it away, but she likes the food dish right next to her nest especially as I keep restocking it with treats.... she can eat and nurse at the same time.

I've seen nursing moms go ballistic when someone approached the cage. So I know exactly what you folks are talking about. But I have a 10 year old daughter who just has to stick her hands in... I expected Bunny to be distressed, so I could justify keeping the cage door shut for a few days when my daughter was around... But when Bunny licked my fingers instead of snapping at me... I got that 'dad you're an idiot, get out of my way' look only a 10 year old girl can give you.

Yes, I know, I'm a pushover. That's how I got into this situation in the first place.


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## Rat Daddy

As to Bunny's nest design, she tried several interesting layouts yesterday and then settled on modern trash heap right before having the pups.... I'm not sure anyone could actually mess it up worse.


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## Ratlettes

My local petsmart is so inhumane. Honestly the only healthy pets in there are the birds. Heres a description: It took them 2 months to clean any cage, really think about that people. Two months. I could tell because there was always the same poop smudges in the exact same spots with the exact same blue and white bedding every time I saw the rat terrariums. The cat glass was super filthy I could barely see the cats. The rats are always sick and miserable, one of the rats had an open wound once, every little critter is extremely unsocialized, I held a hamster and it jumped out of my hands and started screaming at the top of its lungs. I smelled ammonia coming from the rodent section. It absolutely breaks my heart seeing the animals suffer, I use to have pictures but deleted them. I really want to see that place shut down but I have no idea how to report it, and yeah they're still selling rats.


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## Jaguar

Stay on topic please.


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## Rat Daddy

I've worked for big corporations... and frankly at a corporate level the concern for the well-being of the animals in a big box pet shop is somewhere between the janitorial costs and the electric bills. If a store gets lucky and hires someone who knows something about animals and cares about them, the animals there have a shot at some standard of care, if they wind up hiring unemployed assembly line workers who have never had a pet the animals are in trouble... BTW I don't have anything against unemployed assembly line workers who don't own pets.. I just couldn't think of someone with less animal experience at the moment. But all retailers need to hire people for low wages and minimum benefits to maximize their profits. You don't see many surgeons giving up their careers to work in a pet shop.

The fact is that some bean counter crunched some numbers and the amount of rat products sold in a particular store doesn't justify the costs and liabilities of selling rats there. 

Long ago, mom and pop pet shops realized that they couldn't survive selling animals or even tropical fish. For the most part they lost money on them. Their income was on aquariums, and cages, food and dry goods... The big box stores never wanted to sell any animals in the first place, but when mom and pop closed their store they were forced to in order to sell the supplies that were profitable. If there are no hamsters to be had, there is no market for hamster cages or hamster food. I suspect that with more people buying the big ticket items on line, the amount of rat supplies and cages that the store sells has decreased. If people aren't buying the cages or food.. why bother to lose money on the rats themselves.

I think if the trend continues we are going to see fewer rats in stores, unless the store happens to sell a lot of snakes.. in which case the rats are food for the bigger ticket animals that they might want to sell.

BTW, our local big box pet shop got rid of rats and is now selling ball pythons.. how does that make any sense... bad joke, or insult to rat lovers?

If you won't buy rat cages because we sell rats, someone else might because we will sell them snakes.


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## jamekn

I'm all the way in Rhode Island and none of the petcos or petsmarts around here sell rats


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## catty-ratty

There are four pet stores I have the option of shopping at. A Petco and a Petsmart about an hour away, and one of each 35 minutes away. I've only been to the Petco that is closer to me. The conditions Petco are pretty horrible. 

Every time I've been into both Petsmarts, the rat cages were very clean and far from over crowded. They use Carefresh and feed Oxbow. I use oxbow, so I know what it looks like and that is what was in the food bowls. They also sell dumbo rats. Their rats are more expensive than the rats sold at Petco. I was in Petsmart a few days ago. I thought about taking a picture of the set up, but I didn't have my phone.

I have two rats from Petsmart. The rats I bought there were somewhat socialized. Even though I brought in my own ventilated carrier, they still screened me about my habitat set up. The girl I talked to was at first skeptical with a protective demeanor about the rats. She got excited when I told her I have the Double Critter Nation and I feed Oxbow supplemented with fresh fruit and vegetables. We started talking about rats. I asked if the rats actually like the exercise wheel because mine don't seem interested in them. She recommended a larger toe and tail safe wheel. She even suggested the Wodent Wheel, which is not even sold by Petsmart.

At the other Petsmart location............I've known the *store manager* as a casual business acquaintance for several years. I know him to be an animal lover. I talked to him soon after getting my first rat. Although his knowledge is not as thorough as the information here, he did have very useful information to share with me. 

This is apparently not the norm for all Pet Smarts. However, given my own personal experience with 2 different Petsmart locations, I think this is encouraging.

I would encourage everyone to complain to management AND CORPORATE level when they see poor environments for pets. Complaining and commenting on a forum serves little good. Complaining and commenting to the store, corporate level, on their websites and in internet reviews on websites, such as Google Reviews and Yelp.com is a much better way to make a difference.


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## catty-ratty

Out of curiosity, I called corporate Petsmart customer service.

The lady I talked to emphatically informed that Petsmart does NOT sell feeder rats. She told me that is against their policy to sell feeders. 

She is also not aware of any decision of Corporate Petsmart to discontinue selling rats as pets.

I can only think of a couple of possible reasons for differences in policy among stores.

One, management of certain districts may have autonomy concerning decisions to sell rats as pets. 

If corporate Petsmart offers franchise opportunities, those franchises may decide against selling rats. 

*** It should be noted that when corporations offer franchise opportunities, the corporations typically require franchise owners to adhere to certain policies and standards. So, if a franchise or district can decide against selling rats as pets, that does not necessarily mean they can decide to sell them as feeders.

It appears that Petsmart does not offer franchise opportunities.


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