# New Rat Momma (I made a mistake and I want to fix!)



## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

I made a mistake... When I went to pick up my rat, I only picked up one. His name is Toby and he is a scared little sweetheart. I now realize I should have picked up him and one of his brothers. It's been two weeks and I'm not sure if they have any of his brothers left, and even so it will take a while to introduce them both to each other. I have time and that's no problem. My problem is that I live in an apartment where my room is the only place where I can keep the rats. I do not have enough room for two cages if it comes to that. What do you guys suggest I do?

My second problem? Toby is completely fine in his cage, and when he is out of it. But when I move to pick him up, even using the scoop method, he doesn't like it. At all. How can I get him more comfortable with my picking him up? or even heading to pick him up. He runs away and hides when I come near. But he likes sitting on my shoulder and being on my bed and everything. Any tips?


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

Immersion immersion immersion

The trouble with a new rat is it pretty much needs to be quarantined in a separate air space from your current rat in case of illness, maybe a more experienced member will come along and have a solution for you, do you have. Friend who would be willing to let a new rat stay at their house for a couple weeks?


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

All of us are college students in apartments and such. I could probably get a second cage and squeeze. But that could really only be temporary. and when I was done with it, I'd have no place to put it... 


Maybe I could get a height extension on my current cage? The only problem with that would be that they wouldn't really be separated. (they would be, but they'd be in the same air space). 

Is there a chance that they won't be immersed? That they'll hate each other forever?


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

They really do need separate air space otherwise there's really no point in qt, as to your other question....well, there's probably a CHANCE but it's unlikely as long as you do immersion with both and they both accept you as alpha, and you show each I them that you accept the other they should be fine, my rats aren't exactly the best of chums (they don't cuddle or even share a hides spot) but they do ole rate each other an help each other figure out the toys I give them, and I had aris alone for like 4 or 5 months before I realized she needed a friend so don't feel too terrible


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Can you get a cage and keep it in the bathroom? Second cages are necessary not only for quarantining new rats to prevent infection, but are handy for vet trips and hospital cages.

After at least two weeks of this rat being kept elsewhere (yes, even a friends house might be necessary) you can put the cages in the same room bar-to-bar and that night do introductions. It isn't likely that the rats will hate each other, most are happy to form a mischief since it is pretty important in the wild. I would aim for a younger rat if yours is older than 3 months.

As was mentioned, check out immersion. I also recommend https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-YdI4rzIhRVlqWfhLZU8rQ for videos.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

The immersion introduction method works with many rats of similar size, it can get a bit hairy and requires you to be in charge of the process. Basically you do immersion with your new rat as soon as you get him home so he's comfortable with you and you can handle him safely, then you bring in the rat you already have that should also be bonded to you and you can referee the introduction without getting bit. This makes for a very long session and often a very long day. If you start out early you might get to sleep late.

There's no real evidence that rats clawing at each other from different cages actually makes them like each other more over time, in fact it might make things worse.

As to quarantine... this is the worst advise that anyone is going to give you... but fact is, most people don't do it. Depending on where you live odds are that there isn't anything lethal going around and if all of the rats at the place you buy your rats from seem healthy they most likely are. I only screwed up once, because I adopted a rat from a private person, who had the rat all it's life and claimed it was healthy. It came with mites, but was one of those rats that don't get mites badly. It never actually showed any symptoms, but my other rat was scratching like crazy in a couple of weeks. No big deal a little revolution solved the problem. You would probably be surprised how many rats a large pet shop goes through and how few they lose due to illness. Oddly enough the more rats you have the worse your odds get at getting away with skipping quarantine and the worse the disaster is when things go wrong. Again, skipping quarantine is not recommended, you will very likely succeed 90 times out of 100 and possibly more often, but if something goes wrong it can be expensive or lethal to you little loved ones.


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

So, if I get the other male rat from the same store, (and it’s only been two weeks since I got Toby) I technically do not HAVE to quarantine him? It’s just for diseases and sicknesses and such? So if I went and got the other rat today or tomorrow, and introduced them and made sure they got along, then things would be okay? Or was I interpreting that incorrectly?


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## rubytuesday (Jul 23, 2013)

I would ask when they received their last shipment. Someone just posted about getting a second rat from the same pet store and it having a stomach ailment that the first one did not. Every time there is a new shipment there is a chance for new germs to be introduced. If someone brought their rat into the pet store that could also introduce new germs. The best thing is really to quarantine. If they haven't received a new shiment in the last two weeks, you could chance it but there's always a risk.


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## Xerneas (Aug 6, 2013)

Quarantine is for illness which is why it's important. There are airborne viruses that can be transmitted to rats from animals like mice and hamsters and they are highly contagious and can infect within several feet. You bring a rat with that into the same airspace (Sendai, the virus I am referring to here multiplies deep in the respiratory tract) and most likely your other rats get infected. If you don't QT and you get something like mites or lice, okay, lesson learned, easily treatable... If you get a virus like Sendai on the other hand, there is no treatment. Antibiotics can be used to control possible secondary infections from a compromised immune system but all you can do is plenty of fluids, warmth and hope your rats will survive and if you end up with dead rats... lesson burned into your mind forever.

What is making it so tricky to answer the question of QT or not is that because they were kept together before, if the other rat had an illness it would have shown up by now since they were kept together in the same airspace so it is similar to if you were bringing them home together. But if anything happened in the two weeks they've been apart that could be trouble. I agree with asking if they've had a shipment since other rodents can transmit disease to rats. But I don't know, honestly. This is a far different scenario than if you had a few rats for a couple months and brought in an entirely new rat they've never been exposed to before.


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

Also if you decide not to quarantine and you're thinking of going with the sort of intros rat daddy mentioned (without a second cage) then you're going to want to go get the rat when you have a few hours to spare, enough to do immersion and et the new rat acquainted with you then enough time to make sure they're getting along alright, you're gonna wanna be there to intervene for a few hours just in case


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

I called the store and they said they do not have the original litter. I think I'm going to take the risk *crosses fingers* and pick up a buddy for Toby tomorrow. 

Is is okay that Toby is still very scared of my hands? He doesn't mind being on me, or out and about, or even in his cage. But anytime I go to pick him up, he runs away and tries to escape. He doesn't eat in front of me either. He won't take treats from me. Does this mean he doesn't like/trust me? What can I do?


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Personally, I'd recommend working with Toby first, at least to the point that you know he's not going to bite you when you referee the introduction. Then you will have to be at the same point with the new rat before you do the introductions... 

The last time I did it, we spent about 6 hours with the new rat getting very familiar and friendly, she was a nice rat to start with, neglected but human friendly. And the rat we had was Fuzzy Rat. She sat back and watched us immerse the new rat and after nearly 6 hours of napping on a high stair she strode down, boxed for about 15 minutes and flipped over on her back for skritches from the new rat... then they played together and with us for a couple more hours and I plunked them into the same cage where they immediately flee asleep in a single fur ball. We started at about 10 PM and finished about 6 AM.

I'd recommend that you start out early on a Saturday morning and be prepared to shoot the entire day, if it goes fast... great! If not, you will have lots of time to work through immersion and any issues your rats come up with.

Again... owning animals is risk management. When two dog owners let their dogs play with each other they both take the chances of infection, when cat owners throw their cats out for the night, bad things can happen, if you don't quarantine well you can guess the rest. Statistically, some pet shops have sold thousands of rats over several years without a rat plague outbreak. They just keep getting new rats in and mixing them into the groups they have... and all goes well. But sometimes things go terribly wrong. Some years ago, I drove across a very old wooden bridge in the woods, it went over a very steep ravine and I swear it seemed to move and I saw lumber laying at the bottom... I went back two weeks later and the bridge was gone... Makes you wonder who the last one who tried to cross was and what happened to him or her... Luck has a lot to do with what happens when you take risks.


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

Okay. so today I got my new baby. He wasn't sneezing before. but now 
he's home he's sneezing. repeatedly. I'm not sure if this is new home 
sneezing, or he's actually sick. That and, he's having nervous pooping. 
Where the rest is solid, but when he's on me it's almost diarrhea-like. 

Suggestions? Is he sick and I should take him back? or is there anything I should do?


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## Xerneas (Aug 6, 2013)

abbeyjewel said:


> Okay. so today I got my new baby. He wasn't sneezing before. but now
> he's home he's sneezing. repeatedly. I'm not sure if this is new home
> sneezing, or he's actually sick. That and, he's having nervous pooping.
> Where the rest is solid, but when he's on me it's almost diarrhea-like.
> ...


Most likely new home sneezes, unless he was sneezing at the pet store. The diarrhea-like pooping is fear pooping, which rats do when they are stressed or scared. When he becomes used to you it will stop.


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

I didn't notice him sneezing at the store. None of them were. They'd be new home sneezing even though the sneezing is like long fits of sneezing? I might just be paranoid... I hope I'm just being paranoid. but Toby didn't seem to sneeze this much...


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

Yeah when I got penny she was really sneezy too, when my dad started figuring out he was allergic to rats I used to joke that penny was allergic to him too


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

So... they actually are brothers. Which is awesome. and they get along really well. So I think things are good


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

How'd you figure out they're brothers?


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## mameur (Nov 3, 2012)

i've never seen babies 4-8 weeks even from different litters claw at eachother to be honest, i got 3 guys from 3 different litters get along with eachother within the hour as for quarantine i've never liked the idea of leaving rats lonely for 2 -3 weeks i get them checked by the vet as soon as possible


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

When I went to petsmart to pick up Maeybe (my new guy) the dude who was there when I picked up Toby was back. He and I went on about how I shouldn't have left with just one, and when I mentioned that someone said it was a new litter he said no, and that no one else had adopted the others. So they are brothers


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

My new baby is still sneezing... a lot... Should I be worried still? I'm looking into vets.


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

Adding onto that, Maeby is sneezing a lot, but there are no other symptoms. He's just sneezing. His nose isn't wet, there's no porpythrin, he's active and running around, not puffed up, etc. The only thing I notice is that he's a little warm. Almost like he has a fever. Can rats get fevers?


Another thing, Toby is much happier with his brother. He's constantly moving and skipping when he walks. He and Maeby cuddle a lot too. They like being near each other.


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

New home sneezes can last up to three weeks, if you put him up to your ear does his breathing sound abnormal at all? If the answer is no you probably don't have to go to the vet for the sneezes, feel his tail, rats tails are a good indication of I they're too hot or too cold


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

His tail feels fine. And his breathing is fine... when he's not sneezing. He sneezes more often than not.... He is drinking a lot too


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

Just keep checking on his breathing periodically, when I first brought home penny sh sneezes so much that my family nicknamed her "sneezy" and if it lasts longer than like three weeks or new symptoms appear, then you can be worried 


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

Thank you! 


I've also noticed he sneezes less when he's not moving around. Maybe that's a factor?


I am a new rat momma... so I am a bit paranoid about their health.


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## Xerneas (Aug 6, 2013)

abbeyjewel said:


> I've also noticed he sneezes less when he's not moving around. Maybe that's a factor?


Activity and exercise increases histamine levels which in turn causes sneezes and the like (in humans, things like exercise-induced asthma) so that is a possibility


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

So he might be allergic to something? or he might have asthma?


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Here's the deal. New home sneezes onset quickly, last about a week and don't get worse after day 1 or 2. Then they go away, usually in about a week. If the condition gets worse over time it's not new home sneezes. It's not a matter of how bad it is, it's a matter of it getting worse that needs to concern you.


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

Alright, I will take a deep breath and wait it out. I'm so glad I'm on here. 


He seems to be sneezing less. but he still is sneezing a bit.


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## Xerneas (Aug 6, 2013)

abbeyjewel said:


> So he might be allergic to something? or he might have asthma?


No, just that he'll probably sneeze more when moving around when still getting used to things. Don't freak out about him sneezing if he's still new. It is very normal.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

As I recall when Fuzzy Rat came to us she sneezed for a week, we kept her indoors and warm and snuggled with her a lot. It seemed to make her feel better faster. Oddly Max came in at two weeks old and didn't sneeze at all. I've handled rats at pet shops that started sneezing, so it's very common but there's no rule that all rats do it. Like I said... if it doesn't get worse it will get better.


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

His sneeze changed. I'm not sure if it's better or worse. It's definitely less, and quieter. but it's more... squeaky? 

Do you guys find that you care more about your rats health than your own? When I get sick it's like "Oh yeah, I'm sick. It's cool" but thinking that Maeby MIGHT be sick, and I'm being all paranoid.


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## Grawrisher (Sep 10, 2013)

I'm the same way, I had a stomach bug a couple days ago and I was like "yeah I jus projectile vomitted, it happens but when I first brought penny home....pretty sure I made like 5 threads about her sneezes


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

So... update. I have little bits of toilet paper in the cage for them to play with. This morning I found porphyrin on the bits of paper. I picked both of them up and I couldn't see any of it on them (though... they are hooded...). I know that it can just be because of the sneezing and nothing to worry about, so I'm taking a deep breath and keeping calm. I think Maeby's sneezing was a bit better today though. When I picked him up to look him over, he wasn't sneezing as much.


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

So... I thinly Maeby likes me. He keeps crawling up on my hand and marking me/ peeing on me. 


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

Okay... Maeby has been more tired that Toby a lot. He's drinking a lot. He's making little squaky sneezes and I'm getting really worried. I'd rather see a vet and just be sure. I also just really want them to go to a vet for a checkup anyways. I think he's breathing faster than Toby too. and he's laying in the cage, curled up. and Toby is laying with him protectively.. like he's worried.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

You know it's always nice to have a vet check out your rats, but honestly if it hasn't been a week yet and your guy is getting better or at least not getting worse everything is pretty much normal for new home sneezes. If you're really concerned call the store where you got your rats from and ask if any of the rats there are sick. That's what I did the first time I ran across this issue. The store told me all of their rats were fine and new home sneezes were normal and it gave me a little peace of mind. 

You know, dad's talk... and a friend warned me when I had my daughter that mom's freak out and mostly they just need to be told that everything is going to be OK and that is what pediatricians do best. Well, we didn't have health insurance at the time, so I got pretty good at just saying everything is OK, field dressing cuts and dispensing home remedies and over the counter and sign for cures and my daughter survived all of my wife's emergency breakdowns without a single doctor's visit through to the age of 4, none the worse for wear. Then we got insurance and I turned my job over to the pediatrician who now tells her everything is going to be OK for a $15.00 co-pay and dispenses antibiotics and cough syrup that sometimes make the sniffles go away a little faster.

As a mom it's your job to panic and stress out over your babies, mostly things will be fine. Young rats are tough little critters.


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## abbeyjewel (Oct 10, 2013)

You're right. You really are. He is doing so well right now. He scares me when he falls asleep on me; because toby doesn't. So I keep thinking he's dying on me. He's not. ahh. 

I also realized how much they both like me from how they reacted to my friends. It was like I was their safe haven. I'm so happy


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