# Pros and Cons...One basic lab block vs homemade mix diet



## RatGirl_Red (Nov 26, 2012)

I have been reading a lot of threads about this. 

Do you notice a huge health difference in your rats that are fed a specific diet? 

Does diet correlate to how long they live?


I am currently doing oxbow blocks with a few black oil sunflower seeds...like 4 everyday that the rabbits get normally.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

This is a subject that can go on and on forever.

It is difficult to determine "huge health difference"s because our rats come with them before we even begin to feed them our diets. Two rats fed the same diet could have wildly different health track records.

Diet certainly has an effect on lifespan, as well as every other aspect of health. One of the major points of a good diet, though, is that their life can have a higher quality no matter what the length. Tumors are a large part of this.

If you are doing Oxbow, start by offering them fresh vegetables and fruits daily in addition to their blocks. I'll link my recipe for Rat Salad below.

http://ratsnacksnstuff.weebly.com/recipes-n-stuff.html


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

As Cagebird said, it's hard to really judge. I've known rats who lived on bad seed mixes live for 3, 4 years. I've also known rats on homemade mixes their whole life live only to 1.5. This isn't to say homemade mixes aren't good, it's just reality. So many factors go into health.

I used to do a homemade diet, then school became harder and with Storm's thyroid it was hard to maintain, so I went back to lab blocks (though my boys will eat their lab blocks before a lot of other foods for some reason). They've always been healthy, it was just easier for me and them to do with lab blocks (I do about 10% lab blocks with 90% fresh foods).

Homemade mixes can be bad and good. It depends on how you make them. If you want to do a homemade mix do your research, I don't mean 1 website, I mean as many as you can find. Read articles from labs, probably the best idea. This is a PDF, it's a rough guide based off many lab studies and nutrition books on what rats need. (That's why there are 3 sections, 1 for maintaining, growing, and pregnant rats). Here is also a great blog that I like. She does make some mistakes but corrects them in later post.

http://www.blackwolfrattery.com/rat_nutritional_requirements.pdf

http://nom-ology.blogspot.com/

If your doing a homemade mix, I would try to find a website that can tell you the nutrition of a food for every 100 grams or so to help get an idea on what would be best for your homemade diet.

Though Personally, I like to have the lab blocks know just as a back up, that's why it's maybe 5 to 10% of their diet. It just helps me worry less at night. And it's their option if they eat it or not, as I've already said, my guys seem to prefer their lab blocks to some foods.


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## CherriBomb (Nov 13, 2012)

Can't wait to assemble some rat salad!


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

Personally I don’t like lab blocks, for me diet is about more than just meeting a specific set of nutrients (in fact it’s not just about the nutrients at all, I value the mental stimulation and enjoyment aspect too), but I do accept that for many people it is the easiest option to get an overall predictably good diet (assuming your using a decent quality lab block and do feed veg and other bits and bobs too). I do think if you truly want to get the most out of your rats nutrition, really make it special, you need to go a bit further and use a far more flexible diet to achieve your goals, that or use lab blocks as only a small element of the overall diet. This needs to be adaptable to your rats, and learning to read the signs in your rats becomes massively important.

Rat diet is a subject I find fascinating, I have spent a lot of time researching it and am lucky enough to be friends with several people here in the UK who are just as keen. Here in the UK there has been a real revival in how we feed our rats and there is a lot more interest in how you can tailor the diet to suit the rats themselves. 

One of the big down sides of lab blocks to me is actually there selling point. They are identical blocks of scientifically formulated nutrition derived from studies on genetically similar lab rats (line bred so they are virtually identical. I can tell you now that no pet rat is the same or requires exactly the same nutrition. I’ve kept rats for over 25 years now and in that time I’ve seen rats who thrive on certain balances, some need more food than others, some need slightly higher or lower levels of protein, some need a bit more fat, or more vitamins. They are all set up very differently genetically, their efficiency and ability to get the most from food can vary a lot. I had a good example recently, I had 6 rats, 3 sets of brothers/cousins from different breeders. Two of those sets were closely related (2 brothers and their 2 uncles who were cousins to each other), these rats were from the line I currently work with who are very efficient in how they use food, it’s a running joke that they can get chubby looking at food (though actually if your careful there pretty good). The other two were from a line of rats that was quite separate and had much higher requirements. This led to me having a fun fight to get keep my Tabi boys slim and my Valiance lads at a decent weight. Not to mention one of my tabi boys came from a litter that has higher copper requirements than most and rusted easily if I didn’t supplement him.

Then there’s the fact that lab blocks are designed in most cases for a specific age range. A rats requirement changes dramatically over its life. From gestation they are reliant on their mum getting a diet full of far more vitamins and mineral than a normal rat needs, most requirements are around a 10x increase for these valuable micronutirents. They also need mum to be getting more protein to help her body form all the bits and bobs that make up their body. Despite this it is actually detrimental to feed her too much extra calories as the babies then grow too fast and it sets the trend for the rest of their lives. Once the babies are weaning they still need this extra protein and micronutrients in varying amounts depending on when they have their growth spurts, this needs to be in a form that is easy to eat, so sloppy and mushy. However at this age to really feed them well you need to be very reactive, too much food and they get fat, if they stay fat at this age they will tend towards obesity in later life, too little food and they become stunted, they get very square tails and they are always somewhat behind in terms of physical development. To be fair though underfeeding (to a small extent) is better than over feeding for there long term health. Once they are getting towards older kittens and there growth slows down it’s all about finding the balance that keeps them growing well but doesn’t supply them with too many nutrients, normally by about 7-8 weeks mine are on an adult diet with occasional supplements if they appear to need it. During adulthood the focus is on keeping them at a good level of nutrients (kind of maintenance diet), but not too many, a fat adult with have many more issues in later life, too much protein is also one to watch, too much and they can be prone to a number of illnesses in later life such as kidney issues and tumours, however too little and there body cannot function properly and they lose condition (protein is used in so many systems). Old age is where the diet becomes critical again, there requirements for certain nutrients begins to drop, whereas it rises for others, they become far more prone to illnesses and diet is such a powerful tool in many cases in managing illnesses. Generally you look to drop protein levels, keep phosphorous low, up calcium slightly and add in good quality oils like linseed as well as boosting b vitamins, and vitamin c too. I look at all that and struggle to see it working with a mainly lab block diet. It’s not that the rats would suffer on that, but you lose the opportunity to get that little bit extra into their life.

For me a well thought out grain based diet is the optimum, you need to understand the basics, ensure you cover the supplements and understand the use of groups of food but you don’t need a phd or a spread sheet to do it. An understanding of basic nutrition and how percentages work does help. The key thing though is knowing your rats and having a good idea of what ‘great’ condition looks like. You may not be able to look at them and immediately say ‘there tail is too square, they must be short of x’ but being able to see that it’s wrong, speak to people and fix it is far more effective than balancing numbers, or feeding a generic mix with identical properties. Rats in good condition really shine, it’s more than just the prettiness though, it’s an outward expression of inner health. For me it’s a real target to find the balance, as you can achieve a lovely shiny soft coat and well-muscled, fit rat and be feeding more than they need which means that longer term it may cause problems. The optimum is balanced so they just stay in beautiful condition but they can occasionally drop out of it (e,g, by temperature changes etc). I will say that achieving this is part science and part art and a lot of heartache, but well worth the work you put in.

In terms of how health is affected by diet, I would say diet is one of the biggest ways you as an owner can influence your rats health. A lot is decided by the rats genetics and early nutrition / development, however that doesn’t mean as an owner your entirely helpless. You can maximise your rats chances of living as healthy a life as is possible for them by working on their diet and there environment, as well as providing prompt health care. It’s a massive topic and really interesting if you want to read into it. There’s loads of info out there as a positive outcome of rats being used in a lot of experiments. Most animals you don’t get this luxury of tonnes of data. There’s a lot more to it than this but some of the basic rules you can follow are;

* rats fed adlib live shorter lives than those fed with regular food breaks – the study behind this looked at only having food available every other day, which resulted in the rats consuming about 70% of their normal intake, these rats lived significantly longer than those fed adlib. Whilst I wouldn’t want to do this strict a regime for our rats (who get a lot of enjoyment out of there dinner), you can make simple changes along this line which can help. Making sure the food bowl is empty for a good part of the day (where the rat is a good weight and healthy, typically 4 hours is a good minimum, but whatever keeps them at a healthy weight) and having periods in the week where you skip a meal/s, I feed mine twice a day, dry in the mornings, veg in the evenings, I tend to miss 2 feeds a week (one of each) but not on the same day as I feel too mean).

* overweight rats are significantly more likely to suffer from a variety of health issues and don’t live as long. Being mildly paranoid about keeping your rats slim is a good start, knowing when they are ‘right’ can take a bit of experience. Keeping a small amount of buffer on older rats is a good idea, but not much. A healthy rat should look long and slender, a doe will be slimmer than a fully grown buck. They shouldn’t be bottom heavy or bulge/puddle outwards. They definitely shouldn’t be round (which I have seen sadly). Keeping an eye on this helps most health issues as it puts less strain on the body. The main ones are reducing the probability of them getting tumours and heart failure, though it will also help with kidney, respiratory and HLD type issues in a more indirect way. Just a quick warning, it can go too far and an underweight rat will have a weakened immune system and not be as robust.

*managing protein to the minimum amount the rat requires helps reduce growth rate (which helps the rat mature slowly and live longer), reduces the burden on the kidneys (kidney disease is one of the most common old age related conditions) and can help reduce some types of tumours too. Learning to judge if your hitting, exceeding or failing to meet protein requirements and keeping them at this level is one of the best ways to start adapting your diet to your rats specific needs as it’s fairly straight forward and apparent within a week or so of diet changes. A rat deficient in protein will show some of the following symptoms; coat coarse and long (note bucks are naturally coarser and some varieties have longer hair, you’re looking at a difference to what is right for that rat), the tail can get a square edge to it, towards the extreme end they will begin loosing muscle tone too. 

*Feeding for specific conditions can give rats a real boost, for example lowering protein and phosphorous in rats that are showing signs of kidney failure (effectively looking a bit old, fluffy, losing condition, drinking a lot etc), adding in good quality oils and b vitamins can give rats with HLD a real boost, feeding a low sodium diet high in whole grains can help support a failing heart, feeding immune system boosting foods, vitamin c and red berries can help boost rats that are prone or going through an infection (respiratory or otherwise), feeding lots of dark green leafy veg can help keep a rat full of useful plant fibres which can help reduce the incidents of tumours, diabetes can be controlled far better on a wholegrain, slow release diet alongside medication, curcurmin (medicinal grade turmeric) and several other things can help reduce the growth rate of tumours. There are tonnes more, it may not prevent or cure the illnesses but they can really help improve quality of life.

For me overall (and I could talk on this subject for ages lol) my main thing is to understand that rats are like us. They come in different shapes, sizes etc, they are omnivores designed to eat a wide range of foods, we are remarkably similar. A human could do ok on regular meals of identical gruel, but they would get sick of it, and they’d never get exactly what they need, just what the average person needs, they also quickly get bored of it (which I’ll admit should mean that they wouldn’t overeat as much). There’s a lot of stuff out there showing diet can improve or help managing human illness and conditions, if you dig into the science behind it (and don’t take everything at face value as theres a lot of nonsense out there) you will find lots of info, often based on rat models. I have seen rats gain a new lease of life when I change there diet to suit them a bit better, I know on average my rats tend to live a bit longer than there other siblings, I know I see a lot less of some conditions but as to proof what I do is the best for my rats, I don’t think you can prove it, but there’s a lot of evidence that you can make a difference


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## RatGirl_Red (Nov 26, 2012)

wow! So much information to process and a reminder to do a loooot more research!! 

I will look into the fresh salads.

If i bought it in bulk and froze it, and thawed for the meals, then would be still nutritional for them? i live in a small town and dont go to city cept every couple weeks or so and we do not have a great selection of greens or fresh stuff here, hence why i was hoping for a basic dry diet. i will look into grains. 

with my rabbits i do do whole grain oats, barely, and black oil sunflower seeds on top of their pellets and of course unlimited hay.


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

I make up regular frozen salads for my rats, they often get it straight out of the freezer and enjoy it like that, though I thaw it in cold weather.

If you want to make your own home made mix it does take a lot of ingredients to do it well. Barley is a great starting point as a base, oats are handy but high in phosphorous so you don't want too much, none if you have old boys. Rice makes another great grain, and micronized corn is good without the issues you can get with kibbled or whole corn. It's not unusual here to use a good quality rabbit muesli as part of the food base, generally though the ones best for rats are not good for rabbits. I use a bit of Harrison's banana brunch alongside mixed flaked grains and a pigeon food, thsee give me a base that's really varied and got a good range of grains. I then add herbs, dried veg, some breakfast cereals some good quality dog kibble, some dried fish and shrimps, and a range of seeds. I do that all within a framework, and then use the rats to teach me what they need from that. It gets tweaked pretty much every time I 're mix a little but follows the same structure. Try googling the shunamite diet for an idea. Also if you are really interested there's a brilliant book written by Alison Campbell called the scuttling gourmet, it is the rat nutrition bible really, tonnes of info in one place for you to make your own informed decisions on.


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## RatGirl_Red (Nov 26, 2012)

I have kept coming back to this thread and reading through the information youve given me, and its a loooot so i have processed it slowly and researched bits at a time. 

Barly: I want whole barly i assume? not ground? and where do i find it?
Oats: i feed whole grain oats to the rabbits i buy at a feed store. will these work or do i need like quaker oats?
Rice: I have whole grain brown rice i get at walmart. This works? And I want to avoid white rice? We rarely have it here.
Corn: i would rather avoid altogether since it doesn't do anything to help the rat. just a filler.
Rabbit muesli: I was told to avoid since they cannot digest the hay, but i feed my rabbits mana pro gro and i gave some pellets as treats before i knew better.

Veggies: do canned work? i dont often have fresh unless from my garden. i can my tomatoes and green beans
Frozen: Peas, carrots, green beans?
Cereal:cheerios, bran?

seeds: can a wild bird mix work? or does it need to be a specific kind? Is there a certain seed type ratio I need to watch for?



I did look into feeding the nutro lite dog food, but it says to be fed with a grain mix, but wasnt sure on the seeds or grains to add to it. 



i am huge into nutrition when it comes to rabbits, their digestive system is just like horses lol...they make so much more sense than these critters!


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

I tried to quote you to answer questions individually, but I'm playing with my mother's new tablet PC and it's being fussy. Not sure if I want one now. 

Anyway, fresh fruits and veggies are not optional. You cannot feed just a basic grain mix because no dry mix alone can cover everything that our rats need. You would need to head into town and freeze everything to keep it fresh. It will not affect the nutrition.

As for the seeds, no, not a bird mix. More like pumpkin seeds, flax, and many more. These things can be difficult to source in small towns without health food stores.

This is not the easiest endeavor. Rats are a lot like us, which is why they are used as laboratory animals. Their nutritional needs are as complex as our own. Without months and months of research, a full homemade diet is not something that I suggest people take on. As you learn, you are better off buying a mix or feeding a block food while you play with incomplete supplements.


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## Pixxie (Jun 3, 2012)

Cagebirdsinging hit the nail on the head. It is not easy. I found it way too hard being a busy college student to make sure that my rats got all of the fresh things they needed for a healthy diet. I am much more comfortable supplementing their Oxbow with various things of interest than I was trying to make a grain mix work. Unless you can really devote the time and energy it takes to make sure your rats have everything in your own formulation, either use someone's trusted diet/recipe (like Cagebirdsinging's) that is known to be complete, or stick with a *high quality* lab block. You can still provide variety when feeding lab blocks through fresh things, grain mix, etc. But they will still get the nutrition they need. You can also supplement specifics things that your rat may need on an individual basis with lab blocks, such as giving one rat more oysters because they need more copper than the rest of your group. Naturally a homemade diet will be harder than feeding blocks, but it is far easier if you at least have a formula to start with. From there, things can be altered as needed. 

I feel the need to repeat this. It's not easy, and I would not recommend it unless you have the time and resources to do it right. It was honestly more work that I had expected, and I was just using someone else's formula. Homemade diets are very enticing to newbies like myself, but I quickly realized that I did not have the time to really make it work. I would much rather know that my rats have a nutritionally complete but (somewhat) boring diet than a diet missing something crucial that I had no idea about.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm not entirely sure that this remark is relevant to this thread, but my big fat tail dragger actually nibbled on a lettuce leaf yesterday, the Mayan calendar has ended and the apocalypse is nigh!


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## TheRatPack8 (Dec 10, 2012)

I mix my rats food myself. Dog food, lab blocks, and an unsweetened cereal (toasted oats not a lot though it can bind then up if you give to much) and I noticed energy went way up and their coats were much shinier. I've also recently got some boys and thy have gone from mostly sleeping to energetic as well. That's just what I found what works for my rats. I have tried a couple different things and this is the best mix so far and I've been doing it for a while. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## RatGirl_Red (Nov 26, 2012)

I ordered some dried veggies and fruits to add to their mixes and a few frozen veggies to add to their diets. 

i did get some of the dog food too. i see a lot of people say nutro lite but then i see others say high end dog food with higher protein and lower fat like wellness super5. 

also, what about wet dog food?

and whats difference between dog and cat food?

with such a varied diet between lab blocks, dog food, veggies, cereal, grains, ect...will they get the even amount daily of the needed vit and minerals with a mixed diet? i know with dogs you dont want to combine brands and foods because then they wont get full amount of needed nutritional %


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## Isamurat (Jul 27, 2012)

It can be relatively straight forward to make a good home made mix from straights (that’s just minimally processed grains), but you need to be able to supplement some vitamins and minerals in particular as you’re not going to manage to get them all with fresh foods unless you are very careful or have a really good feel for rat diets (the art more than the science). I would suggest you have a think along the following lines, this is a typical diet we use in the UK, a lot of people feed along these lines and as long as you follow it well and understand what a rat looks like whose in nice condition your rats will do well on it. It uses volumes to make it up, this works well as long as you don’t add lots of ingredients with very different densitys and apply a bit of common sense. It also makes it quite quick and easy to mix

•Base mix (50-60%) – This can either be a commercially available mix (rat or rabbit etc.) or a mixture of minimally processed grains (often called straights giving you a straights based mix) that you mix up yourself. Using a commercial mix means you don’t have to add a supplement for adults, but does limit you in terms of mix flexibility and ingredient quality. Using a straights base mix or mixing your own means that some supplementation will be necessary (usually vitamin d, calcium and copper). This should be a mixture of different grains, at least 3 I would say, and major on low phosphorous grains. For example one I have used in the past was made up of;
4 scoops flaked barley – lovely staple grain, nice and low in phosphorous so great for all ages
3 scoops paddy rice – another great staple low phospherous grain, and given that rats came from asia something they have evolved to eat
2 scoops micronized (flaked) corn – corn isn’t empty nutritionally, that’s a random myth, it’s actually quite useful as it’s a low protein, low fat grain with good carb content, a rat would be very ill fed entirely on corn, but as part of a balanced mix it’s useful
1 scoop whole millet
1 scoop millet sprays broken into small pieces
1 scoop bruised oats (dropped out for really old bucks)
½ scoop whole buckwheat
½ scoop dari
Handily here in the uk you can get bags of ‘mixed flakes’ sold for small holders and farms in 25kg bags. This is usually 60% flaked barley and 20% each of flaked corn and flaked peas, combining that with some paddy rice is a really simple base mix. Hopefully there is similar in the US as it will save a lot of time and money.

•Processed Grains (20-25%) – This section is made up of grains that are more processed, so easier to digest. These are nice and easy to find, using human breakfast cereals that are low sugar (aim for less than 5% if possible, value stuff is generally the best). If you aim to get at least 3 different grains, minimising wheat and oats when they get older it will be great. Some ideas I use are; mini wheat pillows, rice pops, value cornflakes, broken up egg noodles, assorted pasta shapes (I like spelt and other interesting grain pasta’s), broken up ryvita, broken up rice crackers (plain), rice flakes, white rice, rice noodles, wholegrain rice, pearl barley etc. Recently I have also started adding either barley rings (sold as animal feed) or a really nice wholegrain dog food mixer sold here in the uk, these have very high copper content and nice quality ingredients whilst being about right in terms of protein and fat, so are useful to help mop up any deficiencies in the rest of the diet.

•Protein elements (5-10%) – if you’re using a rat muesli, or a base that already has protein added then you don’t need to add this section, as your rats age they will need less too. There are many options for protein sources; the easiest is going for a good quality dog kibble (fish ones are the least farmed and kindest on the kidneys so usually preferable). You can also use more natural ingredients, to try and mimic what our rats have evolved to eat, such as dried insects, fish and shrimps (shrimps are the best nutritionally, as there low in fat and high in protein and copper). There’s also using egg biscuits or dried protein, and there are vegetarian options like pulses (lentils, peas, roasted soya beans, soya protein etc). In an ideal world a mixture minimises any weaknesses and offers your rats lots of exciting variety. It is worth balancing this section a little, if you add something very high in protein that is also very dense (high protein cat kibble etc) then you reduce the amount you add. The volumetric percentage is worked out based on an average of dog food with 18-22% protein and shrimps which are 60% ish protein but very light weight.

•Herbs and veg (5-10%) – this is the section you can change each time if desired and is generally the most flexible. It helps add in vitamins and minerals as well as flavour and variety. You can get dried veg from supermarkets (sold for soups) and online. Herbs wise your best going for those herb mixes sold for Rabbits, rather than human herbs (as they’re often chopped up too small) or drying your own, but there are some great mixes sold as natural treats for various animals. There are also many herbs with possible health benefits, and though these should be used carefully they can help support a rat alongside vetinary medication. I typically add; carrot, peas, cabbage, beetroot, sweet peppers, berries, dandelion, mint, camomile flowers, plantain, red clover and so on. I do go a bit mad though, as this is the most fun section for me.

•Seeds (5%) – These add valuable Omege 3 and 6 oils, and are usually very popular with the rats. A good mix of healthy seeds is very useful, hemp, linseed and pumpkin seeds are a useful starting point, with a nice varied parrot seed mix or even human mixes bought from supermarkets being easily available. Don’t be afraid of offering some tiny seeds too (though work up to them) as a determined rat can normally locate even a tiny grass seed when scatter fed. It can be tempting to drop this section down if your rats look overweight, thinking it is caused by too much fat in the mix, but it’s better to drop the overall amount of food down, as it can lead to a really dry coat and skin, rats do need fat in their diet, and generally it is excess calories rather than fat that causes obesity in rats (unless they receive a very high fat diet). You can replace this with a good quality bird seed mix, try and avoid ones to high in sunflower and peanuts, millet based ones are pretty good but don’t add much in terms of protein and fat (as millet is at a pretty rat suitable level on it’s own). I’ve found that some of the higher quality pigeon foods out there are actually a really nice way to do it, there conditioning mixes for winter often have lovely ingredients and nice nutrient balances.

•Supplements – If your feeding a base of mixture of grains (Straights based mix) you make yourself it will be deficient in certain minerals (mainly calcium, vitamin D and Copper) shop bought pet foods have these sprayed on them in the form of a vitamin spray. Young fast growing rats actually benefit from extras of these anyway so there worth knowing about even if you feed a shop bought mix. The easiest way of doing this is to use Dr Squiggles Daily Essentials (a powder you add to drinking water, can be bought from rat rations) and Dr Squiggles Calcivet (a liquid you add to drinking water), these are uk based supplements that I honestly don’t know if they have a us version. Another way that should be more easy to repeat over there is to use human quality vitamin supplements. Here in the uk you can get vitamin d plus calcium tablets, typically crushed these provide 20 rat daily doses for vitamin d sprinkled over wet food a couple times a week. Ensuring they also get bones about once a week or two and feeding dark green veg at least 5 days a week and you have covered vit d and calcium. Copper is found in dark green veg too, but also very high in liver. I bake my guys liver buiscuits (blended liver mixed with flour, grated apple and egg until it forms a dough, then baked until it smells cooked) and these are great as a top up too.

•	Veg – as mentioned a real must for any rat (even those fed on lab blocks), when making a frozen salad you don’t need to just use ready frozen food. I make up mine with fresh veg too and then freeze. It does loose some of its vitamins and minerals in this process but still works well. Mine is normally 60% dark green leafy veg (typically kale, pak choi and/or dandelion), 20% colourful veg (carrots, sweet peppers etc), 20% others (peas, sweetcorn, brocelli, herbs etc), 5% fruit (mainly berrys) and 5% chopped fresh coconut (it makes then shiny lol). As long as theres mostly the dark green leafy stuf and pleant of variety though you can’t go wrong. I chop it all up smallish and put it in bags then freeze. I pull out a bag a day and dump the contents in the boys cage, they actually prefer it frozen to thawed or fresh (weird rats), I just reuse the bags for the next batch of veg


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