# Respiratory infection, giving them Baytril



## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

I was disturbed to hear my Lizzie making whooping sounds when I got home from work last night. And soon, she sneezed/coughed, sounding just like me when I am coughing up phlegm. Sure enough, when I ratphoned her, I could hear the congestion in her lungs. I immediately called the vet and got an appointment for today. I think we've caught the problem very early, because the only symptoms the others have are very mild, there's no sign of porphyrin on anyone, and they are all extremely active, especially during playtime last evening (Lizzie was in heat last night, so she was bouncing all over the place!). And when I listened periodically to Lizzie's lungs later on, I didn't hear the congestion any more.

I brought Lizzie and Anne (her dam) to the vet's so that Elizabeth wouldn't have to be alone. The vet says she doesn't have pneumonia, thank God, that in fact her lungs sounded pretty good. (My big fear was that Liz wouldn't be sick enough for him to want to give me anything.) But he said her heartbeat sounded a little off, so he gave me Baytril for everyone to take twice a day for the next five days just in case, even though he doesn't like handing out antibiotics unnecessarily. I'm not sure five days is long enough, but I got the feeling he'd be amenable to giving me more if necessary, so I didn't push it.

I first tried giving Michael the Baytril on a piece of bread with strawberry jam on it, but he turned up his nose at it. So did the others. Unfortunately, I ended up having to force the Baytril into their mouths. I hope that they swallowed it and that it didn't all end up on my T-shirt. The boys in particular got _really _upset; I finally had to wrap Michael in a towel so he couldn't struggle while I forced the syringe into his mouth. Guess I'll have to surf the forum for suggestions about giving meds, 'cause I can't go through all that again tomorrow morning.

The vet appointment was just as stressful for me as for Elizabeth, I find. She got so distressed at having her temperature taken that she dived into my T-shirt and wouldn't come out for the longest time. Fortunately she calmed down by the time the vet came in, but it took a good fifteen minutes of serious cuddling and scritching to calm her down again afterward. I don't think I made a good impression on the vet, this time. Watching Lizzie being examined, and realizing how serious it might be, suddenly just hit so hard that I nearly lost it in front of him. (Remember that before rats captured my heart, I would have been the one to say, "Oh come on, it's only a _rat, _for heaven's sake!" Now, I understand.)

Now Lizzie is happily playing in the cage, after they all had a good long session playing happily on the bed--except for when I was torturing them with a syringe, of course. I'm still a wreck, though.

Sorry for the long post, but if you made it this far, thanks. It helps to have somewhere to talk with people who understand.


----------



## CarolineRose (Nov 18, 2011)

My rats wouldn't even take bubblegum flavored amoxicillin and I've heard Baytril tastes rancid. I went out and bought some organic baby food (one container for every 2 days of treatment, they wouldn't eat it all but I don't trust in to stay good). I got peas, squash, sweet potatoes, and carrots for my girls. With Baytril however you might want to get the super smelly stuff to cover its smell, like chicken or roast beef. I'm assuming you got the liquid stuff, so you can just add the amount of medicine they need to a little of the baby food on a spoon. They lick it right up. Remember not to put too much baby food on the spoon or else they won't finish it all.

Edit: I bought the Earth's Best brand, just wanted to add that in.


----------



## 1a1a (May 6, 2011)

I stick to syringe feeding (be careful not to choke or damage them though, I read one story online of a guy who restrained his rat with a towel and somehow, when she struggled, he broke her and she died, he was heartbroken). I find with syringing, if I hold the rat face up on my chest (and maybe get someone else to hold the rump so they can't wriggle back if they are very uncooperative) then place the syringe behind their teeth but in front of their tongue, this seems to do the trick. They get a treat after, just don't give them dairy for the next 2 hours as it deactivates the baytril.


----------



## CarolineRose (Nov 18, 2011)

Broke her?  How awful!


----------



## 1a1a (May 6, 2011)

He thinks he may have snapped her neck (could potentially choke a rat doing that too I imagine. You can read his very sad story here http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Accidentally-Killed-My-Pet/1816300 be warned, all the stories here are sad, it's like some kind of horrible archive of post pet death grief... potent, distilled misery). I felt a good deal of empathy towards him reading his story, it could happen to me, ****, more recently, it did happen to me (except my f up was to give a rat with pneumonia a decongestant, her lungs filled with fluid after that, such a stupid thing to do). Come to think of it, both of us were cobbling together ideas of how to help our rats from bits and pieces of info found online and getting it wrong.

Back on topic, behind the teeth but in front of the tongue, pretty safe I think (and just be careful if you have to resort to wrapping the rat in a towel....I've never been able to make the towel wrapping work for me come to think of it). Once the liquid is in the mouth, wait for them to swallow (they will sooner or later) otherwise they'll be running around wiping their mouths on everything trying to get it out cheeky little gits.


----------



## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, I am getting more expert at torturing the poor, wee rattumses.  I found that it's best simply to channel my mother, the nurse, who never let concern for the patient get in the way of a necessary treatment. As Applecavy posted, it's better to have upset ratties who are getting healthier, than contented rats who are getting sicker!

Although the Baytril tastes maple-flavored to me, it obviously smells of death and destruction to the rats. And the stink-eyes I get when trying to get the syringe into their mouths! Fortunately they don't seem to hold grudges, and some cuddling and treats help the forgetfulness. As suggested, behind the teeth but in front of the tongue, and fortunately they have been swallowing it--either that, or faking it really well!  For me, the towel is a necessity, since their scratches swell up and get bright red (must be an allergic reaction). I did think of the baby food (and thank you for the suggestion, 'cause now I know it's a _good _idea), and for now, I think I'll stick with the syringe, since it's becoming familiar. That's horrible about the poor guy who broke his poor ratty; don't think I want to read about it, because I can see how easily it could happen. :-(

As a treat, to make up for the torture, I thought they might enjoy a spot of pea-and-Lima-bean-fishing, and I was half right. With peas in the water, the Lima beans got _very_ short shrift! The other three were somewhat decorous, fishing out a pea and scampering off to enjoy it in quiet; Elizabeth, on the other hand, started eating every pea she could spot as fast as she could. Eventually, she ended up in the bowl, to be able to gorge more efficiently. At one point, poor Michael grabbed what I thought was a pea, but he dropped it in short order because it was a Lima bean.

So it looks as though Daddy's been forgiven--for now. Whew!


----------



## 1a1a (May 6, 2011)

Who woulda thought lima beans would be so out and out. Glad you are getting the hang of it.


----------



## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

Just a quick update on their infection: This is day four of the Baytril and, as expected, I am still seeing signs of infection, although the symptoms have finally started improving. I put in a call to the vet about getting more Baytril, and am waiting for the return call.

The ratties seem to be learning that the Baytril is not as nasty as they thought; now their main objection seems to be having a syringe stuck in their mouth. And they get over the trauma much faster now, in fact, I actually heard bruxing last night and this morning--and quite soon after the dosing, at that!


----------



## 1a1a (May 6, 2011)

Hopefully some others will put in as, with the exception of one rat that was Really sick), my vet tends to dose with ABs for no more than 2 weeks straight. My rats all relapse all the time, what's the story with baytril and how long it should be administered for to actually retain the benefits post treatment?


----------



## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

Just a quick update to say that, as I expected, five days on Baytril were not enough to rid the rats of their infection, even though the symptoms have definitely improved. The vet did give me more today, so I can continue the treatment for another five days. That, I expect, should be enough, at least for now.


----------



## Awfully_Aud (Dec 27, 2010)

I find when having to dose my rats with a syringe that if I put the teensiest bit of peanut butter on the tip of the syringe (not enough for them to choke on, I know peanut butter is bad because of that) really helps. My rats wants the peanut butter so much they would even grab the syringe and bit the tip, which was enough for me to squeeze out the medicine and make them take it. Granted, some of them get smart and realize that peanut butter = medicine = bad, but for the most part I had good luck with it.


----------



## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

Awfully_Aud said:


> I find when having to dose my rats with a syringe that if I put the teensiest bit of peanut butter on the tip of the syringe (not enough for them to choke on, I know peanut butter is bad because of that) really helps. My rats wants the peanut butter so much they would even grab the syringe and bit the tip, which was enough for me to squeeze out the medicine and make them take it. Granted, some of them get smart and realize that peanut butter = medicine = bad, but for the most part I had good luck with it.


Oh, good idea! Thank you! I'm going to try that. They are getting more resigned to treatment, but every little bit helps. Again, thanks for the advice!


----------



## CarolineRose (Nov 18, 2011)

I'd push for the two weeks just to make sure they don't relapse.


----------



## 1a1a (May 6, 2011)

Awfully, that's INGENIOUS


----------



## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

CarolineRose said:


> I'd push for the two weeks just to make sure they don't relapse.


The vet must have realized what he'd be in for otherwise, so he gave me quite a large supply. It will definitely last through two full weeks of treatment. I was going to stop at ten days, but you just convinced me, thanks.


----------



## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

It's been a week, now, and the symptoms are definitely going away. Haven't heard a wheeze in several days, although I've still been hearing sneezes from time to time. None so far tonight though, praise the Lord!

Regarding medicating: having a bit of time this morning instead of being rushed as usual, I got out a spoon and put the Baytril on it. Interestingly, the girls both lapped it all up right away. Both boys absolutely refused. Nope. No way. It just wasn't happening. They don't _like_ the syringe, but that's what they're used to now, by God, so that's what they want. Ratties!

Gabriel doesn't enjoy having the syringe in his mouth, and would prefer to lap the Bayrtil up as it comes out of the syringe, but of course the syringe doesn't really cooperate with that. So I just squirted the stuff at Gabe's teeth and it pretty much all got into him. As for Michael, he clearly wanted the syringe in his mouth. This time, he licked the syringe afterward with obvious enjoyment and tried chewing on it a bit. That's a first!

I always let them play on the bed for a while after evening meds, and last night they were all in a rare mood. Usually they kind of ignore me while having fun skittering around, but last night most of their play seemed to be on and around me, or in my clothes. I really like being a ratty jungle-gym! I have been trying to brux at them whenever they do something I like, so you would have laughed to see me last night, chattering my teeth as though it were freezing. I'm not sure the rats understand, though--either that, or they understand all too well and think I'm insane. (Not terribly sure myself, at the moment!) But it does seem to tickle their fancy that this big lumbering monster tries so hard to act like a rat.


----------



## christinelovesyou (Jan 7, 2012)

Around how much did a trip to the vet for your rats cost? I just got my first 2 rats on Saturday, and right when I brought them home one of them started sneezing. She did it at least once an hour. It seems to have calmed down a bit but I don't want her to die! I'm just a kid and don't have enough money for the vet. What should I do?


----------



## BigBen (Nov 22, 2011)

christinelovesyou said:


> Around how much did a trip to the vet for your rats cost? I just got my first 2 rats on Saturday, and right when I brought them home one of them started sneezing. She did it at least once an hour. It seems to have calmed down a bit but I don't want her to die! I'm just a kid and don't have enough money for the vet. What should I do?


First of all, wait a bit and see if the sneezing go away. A lot of rats will have a "new-home" sneeze until they get used to their new environment. If the sneeze doesn't go away soon, then she may have a respiratory infection and will definitely need to see the vet. My vet charged me $70 to see one of my rats when they got their infection, and he prescribed for all of them, because if one gets an infection the others will, too. Look for signs of porphyrin (red stuff) around her eyes and nose; it's often a sign of infection. Also, listen to her lungs through her chest and belly ("calling the ratphone"), and if you hear clicking or wheezing, then she is definitely sick.

You _have _to take them to a vet when they get a respiratory infection. If you don't, they could either die or be left with permanent breathing problems that will shorten their lives. I would imagine that if your parents let you get the rats in the first place, they must be prepared for the possibility of vet bills, so it might be a good idea to have a chat with them.


----------

