# rat discipline?



## katansi (Jan 29, 2016)

My rats are pretty good at tone of voice and seem to recognize the words "no" and "get down". I'm wondering about scruffing as a discipline action. I've had to do it a couple times to grab them off things they shouldn't be on and they seem to act guilty. Because they're drawn to the thing I keep grabbing them off (can't put it away) getting scruffed has reinforced the "no" so if I catch them I can head them off. 

I used to do it with my ferrets, which is recommend as discipline for them, but I'm not sure it's ok for rats. Basically when they run around there are a couple things I just don't want them on and I'm wondering what the best training for these few things are because otherwise they do things like eat scented candles or chew wires that are already as hidden as they can be. The scented candles is what they get scruffed off because it gets it out of their little curious mouths instantly. I'm as gentle as possible, they don't squeak or fear poop, but I'm afraid it's really bad for them. If I shouldn't be scruffing at all, what are discipline options for rats?

I'm having trouble finding consistent information about this. Thoughts?


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## moonkissed (Dec 26, 2011)

Animals should not really be disciplined. In most cases it does not work the way we want it to, instead they just associate this negative reaction to us and whatever is going on at the time. They are not saying oh I am not suppose to do this. They are going to go oh so & so is being a scary jerk and this situation is scary and bad. Animals can be extremely intelligent, but their minds do not work the same as ours. And we can not sit down and explain to them hey, we are doing this for your own good.

Instead we should set up an environment that is safe so that they don't get into a bad or dangerous situation. i.e. rat proof the play area 100% so they can not get into stuff that is bad or may harm them. Setting them up for success in the first place.
They are animals, they are doing what is in their curious little natures to do. It is not something that deserves to be punished when it is our fault for putting it where they can get to it. We should be punishing ourselves then lol


Secondly either redirect their focus to something else and give it a positive association. They are messing with X & you do not want them to, so you bring out a treat and call them over to you across the room.

I would rat proof their play area making it safe. Pick up anything dangerous or that you don't want chewed and put it where they can in no way reach it. You can buy or DIY cord protectors. Make their play area fun and exciting so they have lots of mental stimulation so they do not go looking for trouble.
Also begin teaching them tricks- first come and then fun stuff. This will be great at teaching them to focus on you when you need them to.

I would not scruff them at all.


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

The reason you are having trouble finding consistent information is because no two people agree on this subject. I say "no" to my rats when they are doing something I don't want them to do. Sometimes I punctuate my "no" by touching them on the nose. I don't yell or hit or try in any way to intimidate or frighten them. Our play area is rat safe so I only tell them "no" when they are chewing my toes or fingers and it hurts. Others who have free ranging rats do manage to teach their rats what items are off limits, but I don't have much experience with that.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

As someone who trains their rats to be house safe... yes, sometimes I have to communicate to the rats that they aren't allowed to do certain things, like chew wires for example. Sometimes I use a stern voice, sometimes I lose my cool a little and yes, I've bopped or swatted gently and with love in my heart... Usually the rats get when I'm upset and learn the rules of the house. They really are very bright animals.

Mostly I prefer to show them love and respect... But rats like humans are designed to live in the real world and life isn't always treats and snuggles... Imagine what a child would look like if no one ever corrected his or her bad behaviors. Think about your own life... hopefully your parents were loving and kind... hopefully they were proud of you and rewarded your achievements, but I'm pretty sure if you lit the curtains on fire, they wouldn't just take down the curtains and move you to a room where there were no matches or things to burn and find you more constructive things to do.... They would teach you to live in a world with matches and flammable objects. Yes, the lesson might sting a little, emotionally or physically, but you will be more competent for the learning. As real world humans and rats we are designed to take our lumps, learn and improve. 

That said, for the most part you have to catch them in the act and be very sure they understand what they did wrong and why you are upset.

Best luck


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## Kokorobosoi (Jan 14, 2016)

Im with the side of discipline. My boys know the word "no", they know "be a good boy", and yes, if they are about to do something dangerous, again, then they run the risk of a bop. Theyve abosolutely learned boundries...they just sometimes ignore them.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

You could use negative punishment. With negative punishment you take away something desired (free roaming time) in order to decrease the unwanted behavior (chewing on candles). Have a small cage ready for time out. You can use a clicker as immediate feedback. Your rat does something unwanted, use the clicker and immediately pick up the rat and put him in the small cage or carrier for 10 mins. The clicker is useful here because you might be yards away from your rat when he does something you don't want him to do, and by the time you reach your rat it will be too late for your rat to associate the negative behavior to the punishment.


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## Kokorobosoi (Jan 14, 2016)

Grib, I tried that and only taught the little brats to run away the second I click. Any advice?


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

Kokorobosoi said:


> Grib, I tried that and only taught the little brats to run away the second I click. Any advice?


By running away you mean you weren't able to catch them to put them away? They certainly got that what they were doing was bad, but also how to avoid punishment. That will only work if you can catch them and punish them with some time out. Rats are so clever, aren't they?


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## Kokorobosoi (Jan 14, 2016)

Grib they hauled butt in different directions. Dove for cover, burned little rat rubber. 

If it wasn't bad behavior I would laugh. At least I know they know full well they were dead wrong lol.


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## katansi (Jan 29, 2016)

Thanks all for the input. 

In other news, one of my little buttheads just stole a sip of my iced coffee while typing this and is now trying to get more while I finish typing with one hand for obvious reasons.


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## katansi (Jan 29, 2016)

Isn't that great? There's a particular wire one of mine likes and she'll go over it, look at me, then slowly lower her mouth to it and thus five minutes of me going HEY and her test licking begins.


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## raindear (Mar 3, 2015)

Your original question regarded scruffing rats. I remember reading somewhere that scruffing rats was ok, but I can't remember where I saw that. My hesitation would be that I would not scruff and pick up a rat without supporting its body weight on my other hand, or perhaps just scruff and turn the rat away from its object of interest without actually lifting it from the surface it's on. And say "no" or "hey" or whatever your word of displeasure is.


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