# Both boys died in a neuter operation



## relmneiko

I had two young rats (3 months old), Hi-chew and Potato, and they both died today during their neuter procedure.

I'm pretty broken up about it because they were young and healthy (or so the vet said when she examined them before the procedure) and I thought this procedure was pretty low-risk.

They seemed to be doing well and were recovering... I had them both in my lap during their recovery (it was about 45 minutes after the procedure was done that I got to handle them, and I was told it was good to handle and pet them to help them wake up), and Hi-chew started moving around, walking around to nestle in the small of my back where he often liked to nap. They wouldn't accept any food, however, turning down yogis and spinach, which they usually loved. But after around 30-45 minutes after I got to see them after their recovery, Potato stopped breathing, and when they rushed Hi-chew into the back to give him an adrenaline injection and some oxygen, he died soon after.

The vet was very open about what went on, and she seems pretty reliable (she was on a list of recommended vets from a local rat rescue). The vet was very attentive during the recovery process, checking them both multiple times to see if they were recovering properly. She says she was surprised they didn't make it because they seemed healthy and looked like they were doing very well. One possible explanation is underlying respiratory problems. We know that their sister had respiratory problems (we had a fiasco with the breeder where we were given a mis-gendered girl who also had respiratory problems... they took her back and we got a boy) so that seems plausible to me.

I'm really trying to figure out where we went wrong. Was it a genetic problem/congenital respiratory problems/unreliable breeder? Was the vet less experienced than I thought? Was it a bad idea to neuter them in the first place? Or was it just bad luck? 

I do know that I'm very hesitant to get another rat spayed or neutered now, and I'm not going back to that breeder. I'm inclined to trust the vet because of how she detailed the whole procedure to me and the recommendation from the rat rescue.

I just can't believe that my little guys died after only 3 months together. 

Edit to add photo:






Hi-chew is above and Potato is below.


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## Sabatea

I am so incredibly sorry for your loss... I know this must have hit you hard. I'm really sorry you lost two beautiful boys in a single day... I did a quick search for you and apparently some times there's some risk with anesthesia for neutering. It could have been a problem with that?


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## erikablanchettexo

Omg I'm so sorry


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## relmneiko

I know there's always risk with anesthesia, especially with small furries, but I don't know much more than that. I certainly don't know better than the vet does, and she deals with anesthetizing small pets all the time, so I trusted her judgment. But then what do I do? avoid neutering and spaying altogether?

I feel really guilty because it's not like it was a necessary procedure. The two boys were brothers and didn't have any problems with fighting, but we were planning to introduce another rat in the future and wanted to make sure they all get along. We also had the rather shallow reason of not liking getting peed on all the time. Now I'm thinking I should have not taken it so lightly and avoided neutering unless absolutely necessary. But what if I had introduced another rat when they're older and not as healthy and THEN there were aggression problems that required neutering? Wouldn't it be better to have done it earlier when they were younger and had an easier time bouncing back?

Maybe I should have made sure they'd eaten more in the morning before they went. There was quite a delay while I was waiting for the procedure and they don't eat when they're nervous... the tech told me they only ate one yogi each and didn't touch their kibble.

I'm reading this right now... it looks like the vet did everything right. I can't say.


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## Sabatea

Really, life is full of hard decisions... In retrospect, we see everything differently. No one can say whether this should or should not have been done. Honestly, the benefits of neutering do tend to outweigh the risk, but when you're faced with that small percentage, it doesn't seem that way anymore. I wouldn't say don't ever neuter or spay, but be aware of the risk more than other might be. Understand that there is a risk and that it is real, but also understand that there's a risk in not neutering and spaying. Honestly, it might be bad breeding on your breeders part. It may have been a mistake from the vet. It may have simply been something genetic that caused this... No one can really say for certain without tests. 

It's awful that you happened to get that small chance with your boys, but there's something to be learned in this. It's not what you want to hear while you're grieving and I understand that, but do try to remember this experience. That's not to say to be distrustful of vets, but take into account all of the factors that you've already stated about your boys. You know the breeder wasn't the best and you really can't prove that it wasn't something on their part that had to do with this. You've already said you'll never buy from them again and I think this is a good step. Learn from this, grieve all that you need, and take the lessons you can from this experience. I am so sorry it couldn't have been different and that you have to go through this... Life isn't fair and it isn't really even comprehensible. We have to accept what it gives us and do our best to not make the same decisions again, even if it wasn't entirely our fault or something we could have prevented. <3


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## ponderosa

I am so sorry that you lost both of your boys.


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## Huly

I am so sorry and devastated for your loss. Hugs & Prayers.

I was calling Vets yesterday finding my girls a good vet and I had two Vets (one who does all vet work for my county) 
say don't spay the girls. The reason being anesthesia Is so hard on them. They will neuter males but only want to spay if you have an issue with a tumor etc. Otherwise don't take the risk. 

Coming from the small dog world (Chihuahuas) this makes sense as most Vets will not spay a dog under 2-3lbs as the risk is too high. Now a Spay is a lot more involved the a neuter but anesthesia is involved in both. Could they have had a reaction to that? I don't know.


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## relmneiko

Thanks for all your sympathy.

After hearing what all of you have to say, I am very hesitant about getting another rat neutered or spayed unless as a last resort because of the risks of anesthesia. I really hesitate to blame the vet in this case because between the vet, an educated professional with experience in small animals, and the person breeding rats in their basement, the latter is the weakest link. >_<;; I'll have be extra diligent in making sure I get rats from a good source this time. There's so many sketchy craigslist rats out there (many from bought-pregnant petstore rats) and so few reputable breeders.

At least their death wasn't painful. They had painkillers and were just sitting on my lap while I petted them... the vet only took them away when she realized their condition was going downhill. So they got one last cuddle. I hope I gave them a good life for the short time they had... they had a big cage and lots of treats and cuddles. I think they were pretty happy. They were really sweet and affectionate little guys. ;_;


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## kksrats

I'm very sorry to hear about your boys  I just had two done and would be devastated if that had happened. Unfortunately, this sounds like there was an underlying problem with your rats' health; bad heart (genetic), undiagnosed URI or other infection, etc. If your vet had done something wrong, they would have died on the operating table. Anesthesia for rats has to be very precise and typically a mistake means that the rats just never wake up. There are other variables besides underlying health such as whether or not they provided a heat source during surgery and recovery since rats a very prone to hypothermia while under anesthesia, an overdose of pain killers, misplacement of a needle (typically they wouldn't do IP injection for that though). I do not think that allowing you to handle them so soon after surgery was the best idea either since even though our rats love us, a traumatic experience is usually only made worse by stimulation from outside sources (such as being handled). Our rule for rats coming out of surgery is that we stay in the room with them until they're mobile (they're in their own cage and we stay close but not too close) and once that happens we leave them alone and don't move their cage for 4 hours. Did you happen to have a necropsy done on either? I know that's not a very pretty thing to think about, but it can provide a lot of answers in cases like this.


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## Jackie

I'm so sorry for your loss. I have been considering getting two boys to go into my girl's cage so it is a decision I have to make as well. It's not your fault at all. Please don't feel like you were selfish or you shouldn't have made that decision. A lot of people neuter their rats and it usually is a low-risk operation. I know a rescue that spays and neuters 100% of their rats. For me it's simply, I must neuter them, not get boys, or separate the cage into two (double critter nation) and risk something happening with the ladies which I won't do. It comes down to either very bad luck or underlying problems.  I hope for healing for you.


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## Rat Daddy

I have generally chosen not to have our rats spayed and three have died of mammary tumors, the youngest at only about a year and a half old, the oldest at about 27 months... It's a tough call and you never know when you will be right in advance... Perhaps Fuzzy Rat would have died in surgery and missed two years of her amazing life and we would never have known what an amazing animal she would have become or perhaps with the surgery there may have been another chapter of her life now unwritten... No one knows... we make the call and live with the consequences, good or bad. Every morning we decide whether to get out of bed and half the time we don't even know how that will turn out. Some days, I'm pretty sure I should have chosen otherwise.

I am very sorry for your losses. I don't generally advocate neutering or spaying, mostly because I see most of the procedures as unnecessary. But I just wanted to weigh in and comment that there are down sides and risks for those that don't spay or neuter too... and nothing is black or white.


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## Ratmom1!

relmneiko said:


> I had two young rats (3 months old), Hi-chew and Potato, and they both died today during their neuter procedure.
> 
> I'm pretty broken up about it because they were young and healthy (or so the vet said when she examined them before the procedure) and I thought this procedure was pretty low-risk.
> 
> They seemed to be doing well and were recovering... I had them both in my lap during their recovery (it was about 45 minutes after the procedure was done that I got to handle them, and I was told it was good to handle and pet them to help them wake up), and Hi-chew started moving around, walking around to nestle in the small of my back where he often liked to nap. They wouldn't accept any food, however, turning down yogis and spinach, which they usually loved. But after around 30-45 minutes after I got to see them after their recovery, Potato stopped breathing, and when they rushed Hi-chew into the back to give him an adrenaline injection and some oxygen, he died soon after.
> 
> The vet was very open about what went on, and she seems pretty reliable (she was on a list of recommended vets from a local rat rescue). The vet was very attentive during the recovery process, checking them both multiple times to see if they were recovering properly. She says she was surprised they didn't make it because they seemed healthy and looked like they were doing very well. One possible explanation is underlying respiratory problems. We know that their sister had respiratory problems (we had a fiasco with the breeder where we were given a mis-gendered girl who also had respiratory problems... they took her back and we got a boy) so that seems plausible to me.
> 
> I'm really trying to figure out where we went wrong. Was it a genetic problem/congenital respiratory problems/unreliable breeder? Was the vet less experienced than I thought? Was it a bad idea to neuter them in the first place? Or was it just bad luck?
> 
> I do know that I'm very hesitant to get another rat spayed or neutered now, and I'm not going back to that breeder. I'm inclined to trust the vet because of how she detailed the whole procedure to me and the recommendation from the rat rescue.
> 
> I just can't believe that my little guys died after only 3 months together.
> 
> Edit to add photo:
> View attachment 204857
> Hi-chew is above and Potato is below.


I went thru a very similar situation just this week, and I'm beyond devastated! 2 males 4month old, brought into reputable vet on Wed, only 1 made


relmneiko said:


> I had two young rats (3 months old), Hi-chew and Potato, and they both died today during their neuter procedure.
> 
> I'm pretty broken up about it because they were young and healthy (or so the vet said when she examined them before the procedure) and I thought this procedure was pretty low-risk.
> 
> They seemed to be doing well and were recovering... I had them both in my lap during their recovery (it was about 45 minutes after the procedure was done that I got to handle them, and I was told it was good to handle and pet them to help them wake up), and Hi-chew started moving around, walking around to nestle in the small of my back where he often liked to nap. They wouldn't accept any food, however, turning down yogis and spinach, which they usually loved. But after around 30-45 minutes after I got to see them after their recovery, Potato stopped breathing, and when they rushed Hi-chew into the back to give him an adrenaline injection and some oxygen, he died soon after.
> 
> The vet was very open about what went on, and she seems pretty reliable (she was on a list of recommended vets from a local rat rescue). The vet was very attentive during the recovery process, checking them both multiple times to see if they were recovering properly. She says she was surprised they didn't make it because they seemed healthy and looked like they were doing very well. One possible explanation is underlying respiratory problems. We know that their sister had respiratory problems (we had a fiasco with the breeder where we were given a mis-gendered girl who also had respiratory problems... they took her back and we got a boy) so that seems plausible to me.
> 
> I'm really trying to figure out where we went wrong. Was it a genetic problem/congenital respiratory problems/unreliable breeder? Was the vet less experienced than I thought? Was it a bad idea to neuter them in the first place? Or was it just bad luck?
> 
> I do know that I'm very hesitant to get another rat spayed or neutered now, and I'm not going back to that breeder. I'm inclined to trust the vet because of how she detailed the whole procedure to me and the recommendation from the rat rescue.
> 
> I just can't believe that my little guys died after only 3 months together.
> 
> Edit to add photo:
> View attachment 204857
> Hi-chew is above and Potato is below.


Went thru a very similar situation this past week and I'm beyond heartbroken! I had 2 males, 4months old, Lenny and Squiggy. Raised them since birth, and they were my babies! Took them in to be neutered, @a reputable vet and only Squiggy made it home! The vet had called to say they made it thru the surgery, were recovering and doing well....they called back about 30mins later to tell me Lenny had stopped breathing. The vet wasn't sure why, but was thinking it was possibly a blood clot. I am afraid to ever have this done again in future for my males or females! I'm so upset! He was my baby, and my best friend.


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## feetfam

I am so sorry you lost your rats. 
We all just try our best and do what we think is best for our rats. That’s all we can do.


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