# Introducing 3rd male rat to a set of 2. Are these things normal??



## Frankie&Ken (Jan 19, 2012)

I dont want this to be terribly long so ill give you all the jist of things. I have 2 male rats already. I got Frankie first who is now approx 6 months old. I introduced Ken about a month after that with absolutely no issues whatsoever. He went right into the cage first night home and they have been best friends ever since. He is approx 5 months old. So we have had them about 6 months. I work at a pet store and someone brought in a lone little guy. Not sure of his age but he looks about 3-4 months? Hes smaller than my other 2. Well needless to say i fell in love with his outgoing loving personality and brought him home. Last night was the first night. They all had a bath together which went pretty well! Lots of sniffing and grooming and jumping around. Then we had couch time which for a while also went pretty well. But then they started acting weird. no fighting, but lots of humping and butt bumping/back leg kicking? I know humping is a dominance thing but never seen the other stuff. So i put their cages next to each other and kept them separated. Today i come home and bring them all out for couch time again. Now it honestly looks like the little guy just wants to play. He hops and bounces and nip-tugs but they want nothing to do with him and now they are starting to tussle. I didnt think it was any serious fights. i was watching the whole time but somehow in there the new guy got bit on his tummy and there was blood. He didnt seem at all bothered by it tho. So i posted a couple videos. Please watch them and let me know if this is normal? Should i do playtime somwhere else? When will i know its same to keep them together? Its like ken and Frankie dont want another friend  Feedback please!!!

Here are the links: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpqmKgYpICU&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bslZ0x9moRY&feature=youtu.be


----------



## JessyGene (Feb 27, 2012)

He looks like he is puffing up his fur which is a sign of aggression. Be careful when he does that cuz he might be about to fight. Maybe try doing short intros at first and remove him before anyone puffs up, and then slowly increase the length of intros. I dunno, maybe someone else can help...I'm new to this myself (I'm working on introducing rats now). I find that having something for them to eat is a good distraction (something really smelly like tuna works great), and I give lots of treats so that they associate the meetings with something good, not with aggression (give treats when they are behaving well, not when they are being aggressive).


----------



## Frankie&Ken (Jan 19, 2012)

idk if you could see it in the video but i did have treats all over the couch. My original boys wont take treats til they have been out for a bit. Last night i did take bedding from both cages and switched them. The cages are still next to each other but i dont notice them trying to look at each other or anything. I just feel bad cuz Rosco the new guy is only in a 10g tank with a cage extender on top. I know that is not enough room for him and i cant really fit any toys in there for him either. I just dont want him to be stuck in there for too much longer...but i also dont want him to get hurt either. I thought my boys would be so much more welcoming than theyre being! Anyone else have any input??


----------



## Aportraitofbecca (May 18, 2012)

when you have them out together put a dab of vanilla on their bums so it over powers their smell. Try also feeding them tuna, which is potent smelling, and food bonds them. I've heard taking them for car rides together because the stress of it bonds them as well. It took me a month or two to introduce my first girls, but now their best friends. It just takes time, and if they're fighting/playing/prodding whatever let them do it until it gets out of hand, otherwise they won't be able to settle their dominance.


----------



## Frankie&Ken (Jan 19, 2012)

Update: things still arent going too well. Ive done the vanilla. we do intros in the bathtub with lots of treats and tubes. There hasnt been any blood the past couple of intros but it seems to be non stop puffy fur and scuffles. Ive had the new guy for almost 2 months now. I feel terrible he is still alone and also it stresses my other 2 out every time we do an intro. Bloody nose and heavy breathing. Should i just keep trying? I feel terrible contemplating putting the new guy back up for adoption but i cant keep 2 cages much longer. And i really think he needs a friend since he was raise a lone rat. And i hate stressing my other boys out....


----------



## RatzRUs (Feb 5, 2012)

Have you thought of neautering?


----------



## never-sleep (Mar 3, 2012)

I have never had to go through the whole introduction thing, but I have read that bathing them and then putting a tiny bit vanilla extract on the base of their tales, will make them want to groom each other. I figure the more time they spend together not being aggressive the more they will get used to each other. Also it could just be a establishing dominance thing, which may not have been a issue with your first two. Who knows maybe the newbie is too feisty for them 

Also, a neutral place to play is a table. Spread a towel out over a table (if you don't want rattie pee all over it, lol) and place some some toys and treats on it. It's a neutral setting while couch may not be. It most likely already has Ken and Frankie's scents all over it.


I have no idea if the vanilla thing works, I just read it somewhere.


----------



## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Actually doesn't look like aggression. in the "introduction 2" video, I noticed the blue rat pushing his rump towards the new guy, a sign of submission in rats, but he was puffed up, so I'm thinking that he's scared or couldn't find a place to get away and so was freaking out a bit with the new guy wanting to play with him. Which could have led to the bite on the belly. Try this, give them a day or two break, let them calm down, maybe put them in different rooms, you know, just let them get a rest for a day or two. when you reintroduce them on New neutral ground, make sure to have a few boxes set up as well, with one to two openings, this way they can get away from each other if need be. it may help, also do just one male at a time with each other, hold the other one while the other is meeting the new guy, and do a switch, and sometimes hold the new guy, will make them all smell like you, and they might get along better, take some stress off of them, and then they can all meet at the same time.
Also it is possible they just don't like him, I mean, there are some people who we don't like even though we try/force to be friends with, but no matter how long we hang out we never like each other. Also it can be difficult to introduce males over a certain age (I think its 8 to 12 weeks) because of their hormones, but keep trying. Also, you can get some baby food and rub them with it, so they might start grooming each other, of coarse save this for when they are more comfortable with each other. Same goes for the car ride suggestion. the stress of the car ride and the new guy could freak out Ken since he seems the most uncomfortable with the new guy.


----------



## Egween (Jul 9, 2012)

Another thing to consider is that your single rattie just has too much energy during intros. The other two can play and run around together to burn off energy but when they meet the new guy he's ready to go. Try getting him out alone for a while first. Let him run around and play and get tired before you bring the other two out for mutual play time. Good luck!


----------



## 5imp7y (Mar 13, 2012)

Somthing that helped me cause i was introducing 2 new rats to 1 resident rat, was a forced friendship moment. I went to the bathtub and put about a quarter inch in the tub, but it was about 2 inches deep over the drain. I then floated a bunch of peas in the water and put all 3 rats in the deep end. They were FREAKING out but when they made it tot eh shallow end they were mainly just uncomfortable. After about 2 min the youngest of the 2 new ones grabbed a pea and then frisco(resident) took it from him then they shared. After that i took all 3 out and put them all in a sort of play bin i made but never used, so it was still neutral. They groomed each other and minus a little pinning they were being nice to each other, which was not the case during the first intros. 

Also try switching them into each others cages for about 20 - 30 mins a day to leave a scent. dont put them in the same cage obviously. 
In the second video i also saw a shove with the back leg which normally is a sign that the one getting pushed isnt dominant but wants to be. Stop and aggravated moments or fighting with a spritz of water or a gloved hand. 

Best of luck, Intros are the second hardest thing with rats, and losing them is the hardest.


----------

