# Has anyone had a rat with neurological problems?



## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

I work at an animal shelter and a rat came in with what they said is neurological problems. The poor thing has pretty much no balance and is always bobbing around. I took a video of it that I will post when I can figure out how. I was thinking of adopting her but is there anything I should know about taking care of her? Do those conditions worsen with time or have a shorter lifespan?


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

https://youtu.be/7QXEpT6EGpM


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## JAnimal (Jul 23, 2014)

It could be an ear infection or a PT. I would check for those first.


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## Finnebon (Jul 15, 2013)

I know someone who had a little girl very similar to that. If you're interested I can send her a message and ask her to contact you possibly? I'm not sure what exactly happened with her while she had her, but she would almost definitely be willing to share her experiences with you.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

I watched for 2 seconds and knew it. This is inner ear infection with manic behavior. Most rats get unbalanced and head tilt etc, but some develop this high speed head waving, often running in circles behavior. Once you cure the infection with a combo of antibiotics the behavior stays but they are healthy happy little rats, so definitely not neuro. The other bonus is they are giggle-worthy once they are healthy . You might need to adapt the cage a little but most live normal high speed head waving lives


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Thanks everyone! I'm going to look into how long the past owner had her. I know she obtained the rat from a petstore with this condition already happening but never brought her in to a vet to see if anything was wrong. The rat is about 8 months old. If it's an inner ear infection, would they just treat it with antibiotics?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

allisonj30 said:


> Thanks everyone! I'm going to look into how long the past owner had her. I know she obtained the rat from a petstore with this condition already happening but never brought her in to a vet to see if anything was wrong. The rat is about 8 months old. If it's an inner ear infection, would they just treat it with antibiotics?


Yes, baytril and doxycycline preferably at 10-15 mg/kg BID for the baytril, and 5-10 mg/kg BID for the doxycycline.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Ok. I'm wondering if she had an inner ear infection at the pet store and it was just left untreated for who knows how long. I'm going to spend some time with her today and hopefully get a little bit more information about how long she has had this issue.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

So the last owner had her for 6 months and she had that neurological issue ever since she got her from the petstore. Would she still need medication or do you think the inner ear infection resolved itself on its own?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

allisonj30 said:


> So the last owner had her for 6 months and she had that neurological issue ever since she got her from the petstore. Would she still need medication or do you think the inner ear infection resolved itself on its own?


it may not be really severe but I am sure its still there, as a low grade infection. I made this mistake with a little boy with a head tilt that I took in...he was sooo active and agile I figured it was a residual tilt and there was no active infection. When he went in for his neuter at 4 months my vet put the scope/camera down his ear and found the infection (I have a pic if you are curious?) so we treated him, and he became even more agile and bouncy


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

Treat him, that's the best thing you can do for him now. If going to a vet is a problem, you can buy Baytril and doxycycline online without a prescription. Maybe the shelter has some on hands too.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Okay. The vets at our shelter are not exotic vets so I'm unsure if they will be able to diagnose anything. A lot of the time small animals are euthanized if they have anything more than mites. My boyfriend isn't really into the idea of getting another rat but she's really sweet so I'll see what I can do for her.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

But maybe they can still give you some of those antibiotics if you print out the info on ratguide for instance is there a reason why your boyfriend doesn't want another rat? If you know the reason you can better convince him! Lol.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

I think it's mostly just the principle of getting another animal lol. I have three Guinea pigs and two rats and all I do is talk about animals I want since I work at a shelter. We tried a third rat a couple months ago and one of our current rats got wounded multiple times so I think he's also afraid of that again. I will ask about meds for her and if I see she is put on the euthanasia list, I will for sure bring her home even if just to rehome her.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

allisonj30 said:


> I think it's mostly just the principle of getting another animal lol. I have three Guinea pigs and two rats and all I do is talk about animals I want since I work at a shelter. We tried a third rat a couple months ago and one of our current rats got wounded multiple times so I think he's also afraid of that again. I will ask about meds for her and if I see she is put on the euthanasia list, I will for sure bring her home even if just to rehome her.


Ok sounds like the plan Thanks for all you do for her she is so lucky you care so much.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

She's being seen by an exotic vet either today or tomorrow morning. I placed a hold on her while I try to convince my boyfriend to adopt her tonight 😄


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Fingers crossed you can get her!! Some of my best rats have been manic tilties.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

She was checked out by the vet and got a clean bill of health! Also, my boyfriend said yes to me adopting her so I took her home today. He actually wasn't that hard to convince. I think he likes her too.  She's getting used to her new quarantine cage and I'll introduce her to my girls in a week or two! Thanks everyone!


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

I've had her for a few days now and I guess I'm struggling with what is normal for a rat with neurological problems. She's sniffs around excessively and also sneezes a lot. She gets quite a bit of clear liquid from her nose because of the sneezing. She also makes these little monkey noises when she's grooming herself and sometimes when she's sleeping. Pretty much any of those things would send me to the vet with my other rats, but I can't tell how much of it is attributed to her neurological condition. She could also be sneezing from change of environment and switching to fleece bedding and whatnot but I'm not sure... What do you guys think? @lilspaz68


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Inner ear infection is often related to myco and if you see further signs of myco, sneezing and noises from lungs then I would say she has an unresolved infection and needs antibiotics. As for what us normal, the things you will see will all be behavioral. The manic behavior, head waving, possibly running in loopy circles, anything off health wise in a normal rat is the same in a manic tilty. It's not so much neuro as the effects of inner ear infection, just like a tilt would be.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Okay. Someone said you could buy baytril online? Where do you buy it?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

You can buy a ton of abs online. Ladygouldianfinch has baytril and everything else or you can buy a package called a Wellness Pak that has baytril, doxy, amoxicillin, syringe, and syrup to mix up the antibiotics


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Okay thanks. I feel weird ordering antibiotics online haha but I really don't want to deal with a vet cost right now if I can help it. Is there a dosing chart for rats online for baytril and doxy?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Baytril is given at 15 mg/kg, doxy at 10 mg/kg. There's mixing and dosing files on Real Rat Lovers Want to Know or I can help you with that.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Thanks. I tried to join that Facebook group but haven't been approved yet. Alright another question haha. I feel like I'm discovering more health issues every day. She had a yellowish clear crust clump stuck to her skin about a half inch beneath her ear. She also had a small bald patch around the area as if she tried to scratch the crust out and pulled out hair. I tried cleaning it with warm water and rubbing coconut oil into it and most of it is gone but there is still a little crusty bump remaining. I also saw that on the inside of her front paws, the skin is bare and red and agitated looking. Could it be barbering? Now I feel like I'm freaking out with every single thing she does 😂


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

The inside of the legs could be barbering. The crusty lump could be anything so just keep an eye on it.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

So her baytril and doxy arrives today in the mail. I keep finding conflicting reports on dosages with one site recommending 15 mg/kg baytril and 5 mg/kg doxy. And is this once a day? And for how long?


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

As to neurological issues, I once had a couple of "dancing mice" which were purchased by my pet shop from a lab and were intentionally damaged at birth to simulate normal neurological damage... They kind of vibrated and twitched when ever the moved... I didn't keep them for long, but I was told that they would have a normal life span... They were more screwed up than your rat is, but basically they could rest and didn't start twitching until they tried to walk or go somewhere... then yes... they looked like they were dancing.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

allisonj30 said:


> So her baytril and doxy arrives today in the mail. I keep finding conflicting reports on dosages with one site recommending 15 mg/kg baytril and 5 mg/kg doxy. And is this once a day? And for how long?


Can you get me a weight on your wee girl? I use 15 mg/kg baytril and 10 mg/kg doxy twice a day.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

She's 270 grams


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Did you mix up the baytril and doxy? If so.what concentration is it? If not, is it the 100 mg doxy and 10% Enrofloxacin?


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

I didn't mix the two medications together. Should I? It's the 10% enrofloxacin and it says 50 mg/ml doxy. I bought the wellness kit on ladygouldianfinch. Also, it came with a 1cc syringe so I'm not sure how much 15 mg/kg would be in that syringe? @lilspaz68


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

allisonj30 said:


> I didn't mix the two medications together. Should I? It's the 10% enrofloxacin and it says 50 mg/ml doxy. I bought the wellness kit on ladygouldianfinch. Also, it came with a 1cc syringe so I'm not sure how much 15 mg/kg would be in that syringe? @lilspaz68


Perfect. OK the 10% enro (100 mg/ml) has to be diluted as its too caustic to use directly into the mouth. If you give it with food that's one thing but its better to mix it with the syrup for flavor as well. Take the Torani syrup and keeping a ratio of 1 ml of baytril to 1 ml of Torani (for eg. 3 ml's of baytril you would mix with 3 ml of syrup), you will make up 50 mg/ml baytril (enrofloxacin). The doxyvet can be given like that or you can do the same thing and mix 1 ml of doxy with 1 ml of syrup. This gives you 25 mg/ml doxy.


with a weight of 270 grams her dosages will be;
Baytril - 0.08 ml twice a day
Doxy - 0.11 ml twice a day


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

So that's the dosage after I mix the syrup and medicine together? Or before its mixed?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

allisonj30 said:


> So that's the dosage after I mix the syrup and medicine together? Or before its mixed?


those are doses from after mixing


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Okay thank you so much!! Also- I have some Probiocin probiotics that I bought off of amazon when my guinea pig was on antibiotics. Do you recommend using this for rats while they are on antibiotics? I usually gave it about an hour after the antibiotics


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

allisonj30 said:


> Okay thank you so much!! Also- I have some Probiocin probiotics that I bought off of amazon when my guinea pig was on antibiotics. Do you recommend using this for rats while they are on antibiotics? I usually gave it about an hour after the antibiotics


Make it 2 hours before or after and definitely use them


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Okay great! Just two more questions I have. I was thinking of having her on meds for 3 weeks...does that sound right or should I adjust that time? Also, I adopted Lulu a little over a week ago and she has been in a quarantine cage since then away from my other two rats. I'm starting her meds today so should I wait until she is done with her medicine to do introductions? Or should I just wait another week or so? I feel bad that she's all alone.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

3 weeks sounds good. give her a few days on the antibiotics and start intro's


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Ok thanks again! 😄 You've been lots of help!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

allisonj30 said:


> Ok thanks again!  You've been lots of help!


glad to....give Lulu a kiss for me


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

So the crust behind the ear has gotten worse since starting her on her meds. It now looks like a huge brown scab with yellow pus or something crusted around it. Does anyone have any idea of what this could be? And will the baytril help or is there something else I should do to help her? @lilspaz68


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Is there a lump under her ear? That looks like a puss-y scab, can you try gently soaking and softening it until it comes off?


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

The brown crusty thing is a big lump. It's pretty big and sticks out like a worm but looks like a scab. I'm afraid to wash it off because the scab is so big and I think it might be full of pus underneath. There was dried pus on that same area when I first got her and I washed it off but it came back even worse. Not sure if it could be the antibiotics making it look worse?


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

allisonj30 said:


> The brown crusty thing is a big lump. It's pretty big and sticks out like a worm but looks like a scab. I'm afraid to wash it off because the scab is so big and I think it might be full of pus underneath. There was dried pus on that same area when I first got her and I washed it off but it came back even worse. Not sure if it could be the antibiotics making it look worse?


It sounds like an abscess, so you really do need to soften that scab, remove it and start flushing the cavity with saline twice a day to break down and flush out any pus/bacteria so it will heal properly.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Okay. Yuck haha. I'll see if we have sterile saline I can have at work. It must have happened at the shelter before I got her. There was just a little bit of dried pus on her then. Do I just need to flush it out the one time when I remove it? And do I need any other ointment to put on it every day? Also- the pus is seriously hard to get off. It's like cemented onto her skin. I'll try softening it with coconut oil or something when I get home.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

I use hot damp compresses for softening scabs. If a sided lifts up use the saline to flush under as it will soften from the back side. Don't use ointment on abscesses as it encourages surface healing and the skin could heal over bacteria trapped inside, and the abscess will recur. I have lots of abscess grody pics if you want to see what to expect.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Alright I will probably work on it tomorrow on my day off. I feel like the neurological problems make everything twice as difficult with her. I swear it took me and another person like 20 minutes to get that one photo of the abscess because of her neurotic head flipping. It's so hard to hold her still. She's not going to be too fond of me after these few weeks of shoving meds down her throat and opening up her abscess 😆


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

So I got home and she has already scratched off the scab and the pus. All that's left is a tiny drop of dried blood and some healing skin. Should I just wait to see if it comes back or is there something else i should do? @lilspaz68


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

If there's no cavity hopefully it will just heal. If there's a small cavity try flushing with saline (make your own)


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Nope no cavity at all. I'll just keep an eye on it.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Her abscess was back today. It looked like a whitehead pimple full of pus. I put a warm damp cloth on it and it started oozing. Yuck. There was a little cavity afterward so I flushed it with saline. I'm not 100% sure that I got all of the pus out but it's the best I could do for now. I'll keep checking it and flushing it with saline a couple times a day and see what happens


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

That's perfect!!


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Just one footnote.. some medical saline solutions are isotonic or hypotonic... they have the same or less salt level as normal blood... adding a little bit more salt will make them more effective on bacteria...

I don't recall the best salinity for washing out wounds for rats... but I'm pretty sure lilspaz knows can give you the very best mix ratio... I have a hydrometer and as best I recall, usually shot for about 1.025 - 1.030 (specific gravity) with distilled water and boiled it, then adjusted to taste for human use... but I haven't mixed hypertonic saline in years... so follow lilspaz's advise not mine...


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Today was even more gross. Turns out I didn't get all of the pus out yesterday so there was a bunch more today. I was able to work out this big chunk of pus and stuff with a damp towel and now I'm 100% sure I got all of it out! All that's left is a little crater and pink skin. I'm really hoping it heals now!


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Is this saline solution ok for flushing out the abscess?


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

The crusty pus keeps coming back hours after I flush it all out 😕 @lilspaz68


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

This is normal which is why we always suggest twice daily flushing. It cleans it out, breaks down cheesy pus and dries it out a little. Once it stops producing pus and is healing towards the surface then you can stop flushing and let it heal normally.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

You can make your own saline just make sure it's only salt and water and isotonic (same salt content as the human body)


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

This abscess is so stubborn. I've been flushing out pus twice a day for like a week and a half. I took a 3 day break in that time to see if it would heal on its own at all but it didn't improve. Basically, I'm removing crusty pus twice every day and flushing the cavity with saline and then it comes back within hours. I hope it starts healing this week because I still haven't introduced her to my other rats because I don't want them to further agitate the abscess.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

You could give her amoxicillin (Fishmox), to help the healing of the abscess. It would heal it from the inside out.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Hmmm does the crusty pus smell like infection or is it yellowish and crusty but no more horrible smell? That could just be body fluid trying to scab over. You could leave it alone now and see if it heals up properly.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

She's already on baytril and doxy so idk if I should add amoxicillin right now. It doesn't smell. It's just crusty and then I soften it with a warm towel every day and more pus oozes out and then the crust falls off. The crust comes back within an hour or so of me removing it.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

allisonj30 said:


> She's already on baytril and doxy so idk if I should add amoxicillin right now. It doesn't smell. It's just crusty and then I soften it with a warm towel every day and more pus oozes out and then the crust falls off. The crust comes back within an hour or so of me removing it.


Forget amoxycillin then. You could use Betadine to flush it so it will kill the infection on the outside. 1 part Betadine to 5 part sterile water to flush the abscess. Use a 1ml syringe (no needle) to flush it and very gently/slowly suck in the pus if need be: pull the syringe a few millimeters, not more or it could hurt your rat. Repeat. Use different syringes to flush and to suck in the pus. You can end with a couple drops of pure Betadine if you can keep the rat from licking it for 5 mins.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

If there's no smell its a "scab". We think of scabs as red or dark red but that's only because that's blood sealing up the wound...once a wound has no blood then its just serous fluid that creates the crust that protects the wound and lets it heal. You can stop picking it off now. its not pus, there's no bacteria (smell) Just let it heal.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

lilspaz68 said:


> If there's no smell its a "scab". We think of scabs as red or dark red but that's only because that's blood sealing up the wound...once a wound has no blood then its just serous fluid that creates the crust that protects the wound and lets it heal. You can stop picking it off now. its not pus, there's no bacteria (smell) Just let it heal.


Okay. So I've been letting it heal on its own and it started looking better. However, now the skin is pretty much healed but there's a bulge under her skin. I think the surface healed but there is still an infection or something under the skin :/ I don't think I can even drain it anymore


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

If there's still infection then it will surface again in time and hopefully that time you can clear it out properly, or it could just be inflamed scarred tissue that needs time to heal. I would just leave it alone, and see what happens. A rat's body is incredible at creating these abscesses and walling off any infection/foreign objects etc from the rest of the body, so she wont have a systemic infection.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

So the bump behind Lulu's ear isn't any worse or better but she's been acting strangely. She is tilting her head to the side and is a little lethargic (she's usually super hyper). My boyfriend said he saw her fall over twice while just walking in her cage on solid ground. She's behaving like my guinea pig did when she had an inner ear infection, however Lulu was just on baytril and doxy for 3 weeks straight. Wouldn't that have helped clear up an ear infection? I fear she's getting worse


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Inner ear infection can be very persistent, it's usually recommended to treat for 4-6 weeks.


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## Munchies (Nov 23, 2014)

allisonj30 said:


> She's already on baytril and doxy so idk if I should add amoxicillin right now.


Just fyi - my vet said that combining amox with doxy can interfere with the effectiveness of one another. Although when I was looking online, it seemed o.k. They use the combo to treat h pylori infection, for instance: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15043520 But what do I know. *shrug* Just wanted to pass on what my vet warned me about in case the info is of any use.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

@lilspaz68 Okay I'll put her back on meds. I didn't know that she still had an inner ear infection. The previous owners said she has had neurological problems since they bought her 8 months ago. I'm not sure how long my bottle of baytril is good for that I bought online . Should I put her back on doxy and baytril or just baytril?


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Her breathing is loud today. Almost like a wheezing, whistling noise. She's still active and eating but has lots of porphyrin. I'm putting her back on baytril and doxy so let me know if that's the wrong decision. I did some research and some severe myco infections can cause head tilt and she's showing signs of many other myco symptoms. I'm thinking that's what it is. I feel like I should separate her from my other rats but I'm not sure.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Myco and inner ear infections can be related for sure, I would definitely put her on both antibiotics ASAP.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

So lulu is to the point where she wheezes and has heavy breathing whenever I take her off antibiotics. I can't really afford to buy baytril and doxy for the rest of her life. I saw online that sometimes myco rats need antibiotics every day?? What would the dosage be for her to stay just on doxy and would that be recommended for a long period of time? @lilspaz68


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Just updating this thread. Lulu did well on antibiotics for a couple months, but in the last day or so, she had a bad myco flare up and can hardly breathe and won't eat or drink. I have tried force feeding her meds, water, and food but she refuses to swallow. I keep cleaning her up because she smells horrible and there is porphyrin coming out of her nose, eyes, and ears. Will keep trying overnight but contemplating euthanasia at this point. She seems miserable.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

She passed away over night. Poor baby...she was sick ever since I got her.


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## luvmy4rats (Nov 29, 2013)

I read this whole thread and am so sorry to hear your baby passed. You tried so hard to help her. Despite our efforts sometimes it's a loosing battle and I have first hand experience with this. The fact you cared so much says a lot about you. You tried and Lulu knew it.


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## Gribouilli (Dec 25, 2015)

So sorry about your loss. You did everything possible for Lulu.


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## Rattielover965 (Apr 26, 2016)

I'm so sorry!She was lucky to have you.


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## allisonj30 (Apr 1, 2015)

Thanks everyone. I keep running through my head what else I could have done or if I would've come home just one day earlier... I know in my heart i did everything I could but it still feels like I failed her somehow. I'll really miss her. I only had her for 4 months but she was the happiest, silliest rat I've ever seen. Most rats I've adopted take weeks to warm up to me but it was instant for her. Sometimes she would even jump out of the top level of her cage because she trusted that i would catch her every time. I'll miss that little girl.


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