# Is it normal for an old rat to feel skinny?



## Ratnamedbuddy (Jan 10, 2017)

I've posted this in the health section because my almost 2 year old male rat buddy had pneumonia at the beginning of this year and lost 40g in weight and I've managed to get him up to 528g but he still feels boney and really skinny. 
Before he got pneumonia he weighted 550g and I was told he needed to lose weight by the vet so I didn't notice his illness at first. 

Could this be another health issue or is it due to old age?


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

Not always illness, many rats will gain or lose some weight with age just like we do. It's a little preferable for old rats to be slightly heavier than skinnier, I feel. But yes it's pretty typical. 550g is completely in the normal range for a male rat (450g-650g). He'd be considered heavy if he was a female (350g-450g). I think it is a mistake that they told you to make him lose weight when he was healthy (in fact it could easily compromise the immune system, especially in an older rat).


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## Ratnamedbuddy (Jan 10, 2017)

I have a very small male rat to (slightly bigger than a female but still smaller than your average male) and he weighs 500g and I was told by my vet that he needs to lose weight as well. He does have quite a round belly and seems a bit of a porker but he's in the average weight of a male so I don't understand why they keep telling me to cut down on the treats


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

Maybe it is possible that they are only using the weight range for female rats by mistake? A weird error for a vet to make but the only logical reason to me... I can't imagine that they'd just ignore the numbers on the scale, rats have a good range different body shapes. My tiny wheel runner is super slim and narrow but she's had a super chubby tummy ever since she was a baby. Looks kinda silly but that's how she's built I guess!


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## Ratnamedbuddy (Jan 10, 2017)

So I shouldn't listen to the vets about their weight and just keep an eye on it myself with scales incase there's a drastic increase or decrease?


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

Ratnamedbuddy said:


> So I shouldn't listen to the vets about their weight and just keep an eye on it myself with scales incase there's a drastic increase or decrease?


I'd mention it to them and show them some proof that they're in the ideal male weight range, and ask them why they think they need to lose weight.


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## Fu-Inle (Jan 22, 2015)

Weight range isn't really an ideal way of determining whether a rat is a healthy weight or not. Rats vary in size alot and what may be a healthy weight for one rat may be underweight/overweight for another. Like how 110lbs is a healthy weight for a really short person but underweight for a tall person. I have a full grown small rat who is at a healthy weight at 270 grams. 40g in 4 months isn't drastic and I wouldn't worry about it but its always gòod to monitor their weight while their sick should they start losing. It is normal for older rats to feel slightly boney.


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## madcow_87 (Dec 14, 2016)

I think they generally do start to lose weight as they get older. We had an old girl who suffered from HLD... she lost weight initially because of the muscle deterioration on her back legs. She then lost weight rather rapidly due to not eating solid food. She was never a big girl. 

If he's happy otherwise and still eating and not displaying any other symptoms, I wouldn't worry about it ?


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## Kira united rats (May 25, 2017)

from my vet regarding harpy's 1 kg weight "shes quite healthy" the vet never weighed her it got me asking why cause I thought she was over weight for my answered I looked to my vets exam method
1 he checks the rip cage area checking for fat amounts
2 he gets them running on a treadmill then more poking
3. he checks the teeth and mouth
4. he mesures the size of the head then the size of the belly

but never once did he weigh harpy until the end harpy was my healthiest rat ever also my largest so big infact she was mistaken for a pouch rat witch for some stupid reason are totally illegal in the town I live in(well not so stupid irresponsible owner of a pouch rat ..... that thing can do a lot of damage
I asked my vet why he didn't weigh live rats he responded with "it generates a opinion of the health of the animal with out real proof take harpy for example shes perfectly healthy large and in charge"

once a rat is 1 year old it goes threw a drastic weight change from one of the 2 following factors it starts eating more or it starts exercising less
in the case of your rat I would not be surprised if the illness was from weight loss efforts a weightloss like what I am understanding pneumonia may have saved his life
pneumonia in rats with proper care leads to weight gain not loss a rat sick like that does not want to move but if you feed them they will eat errrr if the foods close enough think of how you feel with whats known as the common cold you have something of an understanding how the rat felt
on a side note at 2 they go threw another dietary change of eating less
in most keepers thease changes go unnoticed generaly cause they are always around them but vets see it clear as day

it may also be the food your giving is not high enough in protein for his old body and at his age my average healthy female is about 600g but then my average rat eats about 2x the norm and does a good 100 5 foot dashes for fun day so given he still feels bony at 550g maybe hes a 600g rat but above all else I would be asking the vet what criteria they are basing this obesity on


..... for any vet to say a nearly 2 year old rat is fat and needs to lose weight isn't too experienced with rats cause to try and lose weight at that age is a near death sentence on the flip side of that they might say "he may need to lose weight lets wait and see what happens over the next month"

also for your rat to get pneumonia your house had to get REALLY cold or your rat had to have gotten absolutely drenched in a semi cold environment we are talking drenched in a below 10 degree c environment but if you factor weight loss with him having been 550 or higher and he droped to say 450 well that kinda lack of fat oh ya hes getting pneumonia in 20 degree c no problem the same issue is even present in humans who have lost 1/5th to 1/10 their body weight in equally short time


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## Fu-Inle (Jan 22, 2015)

I've had rats lose tons of weight do to illness, from emaciation to slightly underweight and I find that a good way of telling if their underweight and how badly is to feel their ribcage.

I found that on a healthy weight rat there should be a thin layer of fat/muscle covering the ribcage, so you shouldn't be able to feel the individual rib bones sticking out, and if you do it should be very feint. But for the most part it should feel solid. Even on my scrawny 260 gram rat, the bones do not protrude. 
But elderly rats do lose muscle and become slightly more frail as they get older.


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## Ratnamedbuddy (Jan 10, 2017)

Kira united rats said:


> from my vet regarding harpy's 1 kg weight "shes quite healthy" the vet never weighed her it got me asking why cause I thought she was over weight for my answered I looked to my vets exam method
> 1 he checks the rip cage area checking for fat amounts
> 2 he gets them running on a treadmill then more poking
> 3. he checks the teeth and mouth
> ...


Hi thank you your information has really helped.
I don't think it was the temperature though. I live in the UK so it rarely gets hot (alright right now it's like 27 degrees at its hottest and my boys are struggling)
Buddy my 2 year old and his brother Wilson were pet shop rats. Sadly his brother died at the age of 1 year 4 months of pneumonia. so I got buddy 2 new friends one of which use to rip his fur out and made him stressed(I gave that rat to my friend cause I couldn't afford to get him neutered). I personally think it was the stress that made him ill but I can't tell for sure. He's doing fine now though, now and then he'll have his tired days and he doesn't really move around and want cuddles but other days he's jumping around with his cage mate. Before he got ill he felt healthy but now I can really feel his hop bones and the back end of his spine can't feel the ribs though


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## Shadow <3 (Jan 25, 2017)

Temperature doesn't always cause pneumonia. Heck, one of my rats was living in a pretty stress free environment, with access to good food, water, ventilation, and had a great buddy who adored her. She had also never had a URI or myco flare up in her life, and it was the middle of summer where I live. And yet, one day when she was around 18 months old, I came home, and she was just very sick. She had been perfectly fine just hours before, and despite rushing her to the vet and getting the best treatment, she died just 2 days later. An autopsy revealed that it was pneumonia, and I have no idea why she got to that point. I've seen rats go from myco flare ups to pneumonia very quickly. All my girls have also been pet store rats, and despite living in ideal conditions (at my home), 2 have died from pneumonia. I don't think we always know exactly what causes myco flare ups and pneumonia, whether it be stress, an outside source (since rats are never vaccinated, we could technically carry outside bacteria to them - plus my vet tells me that pneumonia in rats is zoonotic), bad food, or something else. Stress definitely plays a factor, but like I've said, I've had perfectly "happy" seeming rats get sick for seemingly no reason, even with ideal care. I don't know if it has to do with their poor genetics (as I said, all my girls have been pet store rats), but in my case, my girls have seemingly gotten pneumonia out of thin air!

And in my case, pneumonia did cause weight loss in my girls. All 3 of my girls who had pneumonia became lethargic, but they also lost their appetite. That combined with their increased difficulty breathing meant that they lost weight incredibly quickly! I was constantly trying to hand feed them protein rich food, as they just hated eating when sick (even when food and water were close by, they simply seemed to feel too weak to consume it).

I hope your poor ratty feels better soon


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