# When is enough, enough?



## Alice (Nov 2, 2013)

Alright, so I have roommates. They aren't bad roommates when it comes to roomate things but....I am almost certain they are animal horders do to not being able to say no... I was okay with their three cats, two dogs, fourty rats (they rescue and breed....), mice, gerbil, and four ferrets....but now they are gaining a fourth cat after getting two fish tanks. No reason to ask if we are okay with it btw. I myself have two cats that are literally trapped in ourrour room due to theirs fighting ours and five rats and three mice. Our three bedroom apartment is becoming a down right zoo. None of their rats get attention, the ferrets don't get any attention, their dogs go out twice a day and get in trouble for going on the floor because they are too busy playing a video game or online or whatever else is more important.... and they complain about paying bills because they spend so much on their animals. Oh, and if we mention an increase in electric due to the fish tanks or how they really don't need anymore animals...they say "well we are paying half and it's our apartment too". This is becoming incredibly frustrating and I don't know what to do, what to say, or how to get them to realize they are really just hoarding animals at this point...the poor things, and my poor nose...


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

Enough has well an gone. I hope your house is huge. At the level of confinement that I imagine they're using, it's probably abuse and should be reported. 
Here's the deal. For anyone, they should only have as many animals as they can provide for, socialize, and pay for.
So. Ferrets need four hours out a day, rats need at least one. Mice should get twenty minutes of socializing and I think gerbils are another twenty. Separate genders need to not mix so times two. So they're needing to devote at least half their waking hours to pets and I doubt they really are. 
I really think enough came and went. If you won't call animal protective services you need to talk to your property manager or find a new place to go. 

In my case, I have three birds and could get more based on how I care for them -- they're cage less, don't need socializing and are cheap. Vet care is about $80 a bird so my limit is around six birds. I have 9 rats, vet care is about $35. I could manage around 15 at most. I have one dog, vet care is about $60. I could manage two. 


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## Alice (Nov 2, 2013)

I thought as much as well. I think, when I have a conversation with them tonight, I'll have to bring up how not socializing is abuse. She is pretty hard on other people about abuse; I don't understand how she doesn't understand that what she is doing is just another form of abuse. I cant sit in their room for very long due to smell, but they claim they'd have to change cages daily to keep the smell out and they can't afford that....which means they can't afford their **** animals. My girls are spot cleaned twice a day, cloth washed every other day, and deep ccleaned and scrubbed every Saturday to keep smell down and create a healthy environment. My mice are cleaned the same way. Just because she feeds top of the line food to her animals doesn't mean she is taking care of them....it's a **** shame. I'm terrified to get authorities of any kind, including the landlord, because the smell might make them force me to get rid of my own for fear I'll let mine get that way... but I can't let their animals suffer anymore. It's not only driving me nuts but it can't go on. I'll suggest first that they allow some rescues to take whattthry can't handle and go from there on how serious the situation is. Any other suggestions on yow to deal with this that my anger might be over looking?


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

I reread your post and you call your living situation an apartment and I just wanted to add that I hope to god you live in a duplex. I don't mean to be rude, but with so many pets I can't visualize nice living quarters due to smell and upkeep. I'm sure your place is nice but imagining an apartment with that many pets is nightmarish. 
Even with 11 rats, three birds, and a dog my apartment does not stink. In fact, the only pet smell is from my dogs awful smoked bones. I don't clean often or as much as I should but owning pets doesn't mean smelling like pets. If my birds were ever quiet, my apartment would be a lot like someone who doesn't own any pets. 

Unfortunately, with animal hoarders things are rough. You can try to open their eyes and compromise or you can bite the bullet and say they've got to go. 
If you want to negotiate, I would try to draw their attention to each animals needs. 
Ferrets need time out to play and such or they'll get ill and depressed and die. Even in a DCN, knowing how ferrets are I wouldn't keep more than three confined to it if I could only do three hours out a day. 
Cats are super antsy picky creatures who don't do well with confinement. If your cats fight, it's safe to vet they're on edge a lot despite not seeing the enemy. They'll start marking and taking frustration out on their environment. Having a volition situation like that is awful and no other cat should've been brought in. 
Along with the problem of prey animals, it's not likely the pocket pets are comfy with this much going on around them. Mice are particularly susceptible to stress is my understanding. Rats probably aren't doing great with baby making in unclean environments and their offspring are given a **** hand in life and not likely to do great. 
Finally is the dogs. If they're not walked (or if you have a yard let out) at LEAST every six hours you've got animal control ceasing them if anyone calls it in. As a rule I think anyone without a yard should only have two dogs. 

It seems beyond common sense that they have too many pets. If you just look at care sheets for each species, they probably are providing one out of three basic needs (food...). If they aren't able to clean the habitats they have they need to reduce not increase the amount of habitats. 

Sorry trying not to ramble but I think an apartment with five cats, two dogs, like ten mice and maybe twenty rats should've been the limit between all residents while maintaining a comfortable living space. If you divide those numbers in half, you get a fair amount for each person to own which you seem to be following. At the very least your roommates should recognize that they're disrespecting the rental agreement...paying half the rent entitles them to their private space, and you Guys sharing a neutral common area. Nobody has the right to impose their half of stuff onto the others (smell, limited use of common area, etc.).
I got an apartment alone because I didn't want to impose my pets on others nor did I want to confine my pets for their benefit...


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## Daize (Jun 8, 2013)

It sounds like it's time to move. 

Then you can get the authorities involved and you roommates can get help for their hoarding addiction. 

With the smell and the amount of animals, it sounds like it's becoming a health hazard issue for both humans and animals. 

If you can't move. Then it might be time to get new roommates. 

No amount of talking will get through if your roommates are animal hoarders. You can even tell them they're hoarders, but they'll never see it. 

Sometimes it's best to leave things to the proper authorities to handle. 


As far as not socializing their animals.... That's really the least of the worries. The toxic environment, smell, in which the animals are being kept is much worse.


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## Alice (Nov 2, 2013)

Thank you. Sometimes I need to hear things from others to realize I'm not being a betch with an I.... I think I'm enabling by being ocd clean when it comes to my house. Literally ALL of my animals are confined to my room....but you would never know I had two cats, five rats, and three mice in a 9x13 space. My cats don't go near the cages thank goodness; they pretend the pocket friends don't exist. During free roam, I used to kick the cats out but now put them in my very roomy, empty closet because the fighting would be something terrible. I am constantly cage cleaning, litter box cleaning, weekly carpet shampooing (with vinegar so it doesn't hurt my rats during free roam), weekly wall scrubbing (It keeps the walls looking nice!), and daily carpet vaccuuming. I then furiously clean the rest of the house to my standards because their dogs potty on the floor. The only time you can really smell anything is when you pass their open door....and I keep it closed as much as possible. ALL of their caged pets are in their room; theIr cats get free roam as do their dogs. It's about a 13x13 room; the largest one. When we all agreed to become roommates, their goal was to find their rescue litters (rats) a home asap and downsize. Yet, she's charging 30 dollars a six month old baby for rescued pregnant girls who she didnt know where pregnant and were possibly inbred. That doesn't sound like someone just trying to find them homes... it's like everything that was said before moving in was just what we wanted to hear. I think looking for a new place is right up our alleys; the frustration, lack of situational awareness, neglect, and tireless hypocrisy is killing us.


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## Mouse (Aug 13, 2013)

Move out, then call the authorities. Even if it's not illegal to keep so many animals in their own **** with no socialization, I'm sure that a rescue group might be able to help, or convince her to give some up.


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## Crezzard (Jul 20, 2013)

Oh god a place like that sounds like ****. Id hate to have to rent or house share with someone else. 


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## ratsaremylife (Nov 5, 2013)

I have a ton of pets at my house. But then again I live on a farm... My mom and me take care of the pets. I myself take care of my baby goat and her BFF, the male bucks for breeding, that is grain, hay, and water every day. I have a bunny to feed, water, and sweep and change his litter box every day, plus play time for and hour or two. One kitten to give antibiotics, soak her foot and feed several times a day. A donkey to feed and train daily. A chicken coop to feed water daily. A mantis to feed daily. A colony of roaches to feed every couple days. My family takes care of the dogs and cats. My mom takes most care of the goats (milking, feeding, watering, cleaning barn, and buying grain). I have three rats to feed, water daily. And clean weekly. Not to mention free time in the dining room once a day. It may sound like a lot, but they all have a lovely life filled with toys and love. OH! I almost forgot! I also have a parakeet that has to be fed, watered, and papers cleaned daily. And my mom is pretty much a vet as she was a vets apprentice for years in highschoole, and she took a few years of vet school. She is also friends with several vets that help her with everything. We have only had to take our pets to the vet when needed. The few times we have they charged us a LOT of money for what she all ready new... My pets have never been to a vet and are absolutely fine! My bunny even had a severe ear infection once, my mom spent all night texting a bunny speacalist and he healed completely after a couple of weeks.


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## ratsaremylife (Nov 5, 2013)

Oh, and forgot pigs to feed once a day, and I am homeschooled so it does make more animals easier...


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## MightylilttleMinies (Jul 17, 2013)

Ratsaremylife, I know exactly what you mean. Horses, a goat, milk cows, herd cows, dogs, rats, and well, I can count siblings I think. 


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## MightylilttleMinies (Jul 17, 2013)

Oh and chickens. 


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