# PICS OF PREGO RAT!! or is she??? help!!



## ambernd

im pretty sure she (Cheese) is pregnant becuase she has been with the boys for about a month now... but im not possitive. But she is HUGE!!! and her nipples are showing and she is shaped like a pear.. lol...but im not sure if this will work or not but here are some pics of her.. please help and let me know if you think she is prego or not... or if you know anything about birth and raising the ratlettes...i think i got everything covered about it but just to make sure... oh yea and im sort of taking a poll on what color they will be so take a guess!!! Cheese is a PEW and Stewie (dad) is all black with a blob of white on his belly!!


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## ambernd

her again


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## ambernd

again


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## ambernd

again...


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## Stephanie

yeah she is definitely pregnant! Why was she with the boys for a month?


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## ambernd

well ive always wanted to breed rats and now that i have a few months off from everything i decided to try it out... ive been reading about it for months on end now and i thought since i had a break i would go ahead and do it... but i have so many people that want them! and even if they turn out not to want them then i know a pet store that would take them... and before anyone says anything i known the owner for like 5 years and we are best friends and i actually work at the pet store so i wont have to worry about anything... but anyway please anyone stop and say if you think she is pregnant or not!! Thanks!


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## JennieLove

I think its pretty obvious that she is. lol


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## Rodere

Gawd that looks uncomfortable. Do you have a vet lined up in case she has difficulties with the birth? Be prepared for a very large bill if she does have troubles. Ouch. I'm sure this is going to be rough on her with a stomach THAT huge..

Poor girl.


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## ambernd

Well this is her first birth so i was hopeing that it wouldnt be that big... but i just hope that she takes care of them or ill be up for a LONG 5 weeks!!! lol... But no i havnt got a vet called... i didnt think that vets even worked with rats... i might be crazy i dont know...lol.. but if anyone has any advice please tell!!!


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## lilspaz68

Extremely pregnant, but her body shape doesn't look young? How old is she?

Most of us have rat vets, you HAVE to have a vet for your rat as they are prone to illnesses.

You need to read this before you continue on your breeding venture...
http://www.goosemoose.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,118/forum,rat/topic,4218.0

*cry*


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## Poppyseed

If you don't have a vet, don't know what a pregnate rat looks like, and just throw pet store rats together with unknown genetics, you should NOT breed.

I hope the birth goes fine, poor girl. Rats are pets not toys and pregnacy and birth are serious issues. It takes more than a couple months reading to be knowledgeable enough in it. You are playing with lives here.

Think of it this way: Would you just take two dogs off the street and mate them for fun? That's what you are doing with the rats. With so many unwanted rats without homes breeders should be left with experianced and knowledgeable rat breeders with rat breeding stock with KNOWN genetic lines (not just she's cute and looks healthy) that have mentored with another breeder, have lots of money set aside in case a cessarian is needed, have lots of room and money to provide adequate cageing for the babies as they ween, have primary and secondary and possibly even tertiary homes lined up before they breed, etc.

That being said, don't breed again please. Get a rat vet lined up and I hope everything will go fine.


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## Poppyseed

Also if she is still with the father, she needs to be seperated right away. She can get pregnant again right after birth even when nursing. Keep them in seperate cages, keep a female and male or get the father neutered and keep the sexes seperate at ALL TIMES. Breeding is not something to be played with.

I seriously am so worried, especially since you don't have a vet lined up D:

At five weeks, seperate the babies sexes. Since you know very little about breeding it would be advisable to post pics of each ones genitals and ask ahead of time. They can start mating at five weeks and since you don't know much you could have a ton of poor young pregnant moms before you know it :/


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## ladylady

hmm yeah you need to prevent further pregnancies, find a vet in your area (see lists in the vets post in health section), get some money together, read the threads in this section there are lots of threads with tips websites for pregnancy and birth ect. 
hope it goes smoothly


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## MagicalLobster

Yes, that would be a pregnant rat you have there.


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## Forensic

Yes, she's pregnant. Please separate the male and female... And please don't ever do this again.


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## ambernd

she's been seperated from everyone for about a week. She is in a 20 gal aqurium right now by herself. With her being big like this do you guys think she could deliver any day now or what?


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## Kimmiekins

> Rats are pets not toys and pregnacy and birth are serious issues. It takes more than a couple months reading to be knowledgeable enough in it. You are playing with lives here.


Perfectly said. I couldn't say anything anyone else already hasn't.

It just makes me so sad that people think it's okay to breed willy-nilly without mentoring with an established, ethical breeder and eventually buying a pair from the breeder with establishes lines.


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## Forensic

ambernd said:


> she's been seperated from everyone for about a week. She is in a 20 gal aqurium right now by herself. With her being big like this do you guys think she could deliver any day now or what?


Yes. Any day now.


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## Rodere

You need to find a vet ASAP. Like.. days ago actually!!! I'm seriously worried about her with such a huge belly. And being that large with her first litter.. gawd I hope she's ok. Please keep us updated on her. Something's just telling me I need to be worried, and I've learned to speak up when that happens.


Another member on this forum (I will leave it up to her to name herself if she hasn't told her story already), lost her precious girl after a purposeful breeding. She died before ever reaching the vet..

Most litters that are just crazy huge can sometimes be sickly and have a lot of problems. You're likely to have several stillborns. And you may have a ton of babies to find homes for. Sometimes the size of the belly isn't an indicator to the number of pups, but sometimes you don't know how so many fit inside the belly. Hopefully that won't be the case with yours..

Rats can have up to 20-some babies. You have at least three extra cages for when they must be seperated right?


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## ambernd

yea i have 3 extra cages.... What am I suppose to say when I call a vet?


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## ambernd

oh yea and I'm worried about her... I know that when their water breaks its like water with a red tint to it. But I put paper towels in her cage last night and where she had used the bathroom on them it had a tint of brown/red to it... Is that her water breaking or is that somthing I should get checked out? There is like 3 or 4 different spots like that on the paper towels. Remember that was last night so im not sure if could be her water. Please help!!! I don't know what to do and I'm really worried.....HELP!!


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## Matt

Just calm down and wait until the babies pop out. Dont be so worried about her water breaking and the entire pregnancy. your just gonna stress yourself out even more then what you are now.


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## ambernd

(the spots started last night and have continued through the day... there is only about 3 but please im really worried....)


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## Matt

ambernd said:


> (the spots started last night and have continued through the day... there is only about 3 but please im really worried....)


Pictures, most of the time, work better then words.(*Hint-Hint*)


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## ambernd

lol ok ill go take pics right now...


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## savveth

O.O Breeding and birthing and caring for the babies are way harder than I think you think it will be. What if she rejects them? Are you prepared to stay up and feed every one of them every two hours 24/7? You sound like you have no experience at all. And absolutely no responsible breeder would sell the babies to a pet store, it is much better to screen the potential adopters yourself. Please, next time, leave the breeding to people who know what they are doing.

As for the vet, just ask them if they accept rats, and if they dont, ask them to refer you to a place that will. This is just so irresponsible. But, whats been done is already done, so I hope both the mama and babies will be ok.


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## ambernd

her spots


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## Forensic

ambernd said:


> her spots


Pardon?


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## Poppyseed

Call around for vets, and tell them whats going on. Ask them if they are knowledgeble for rats. If they are and you tell them what is going on they will be able to guide you as to whether you need to see them or not.

Usually exotic vets will see rats. Sometimes exotic vet clinics will be obvious and say 'all exotics, no cats dogs or horses' in the add in the phone book or have exotic or wild in their name.
http://ratguide.com/breeding/
http://ratguide.com/breeding/birth/labor_and_birth.php
http://ratguide.com/breeding/birth/labor_emergencies.php


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## ambernd

sry it didnt work last time... now here r the spots


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## ambernd

more


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## Poppyseed

The rat guide said spotting occurs the day of or the day before the birth.

" When birth is impending there will be a bloody vaginal discharge. This occurs a day before, or the day of birth. Often, with spotting, a litter can be expected to arrive within a few hours. Excessive bleeding is not normal. If your doe shows heavy bleeding call your veterinarian immediately."

How does she look? Is she breathing hard? Is she panicing and running around the cage? Look at her vulva and see if you see a baby stuck or not. Is it a LOT of blood or just a little? Watch her for gasping and make sure the tips of her hands/tail/etc aren't discolored or (sort of) blue and make sure she isn't pale anywhere.

"Complications

Poor nutrition, hormonal imbalance, disease, stress, or even fetuses lodged in the birth canal are some of the things that may cause a birth not to progress normally.

Signs of possible complications may include distress, excess bleeding, pale extremities, hard contractions with no results, or the cessation of contractions despite the appearance of more babies. Darker, thicker blood spotting or brownish blood can be indicative of trouble. In the case of hemorrhage generally the babies cannot be saved. Blood loss of the female can be life threatening and may require an emergency spay.

One of the more common complications is uterine inertia. Inertia occurs when the uterus fails to contract with normal strength and duration and at normal intervals during labor. Contractions cease or become too weak to push the fetus through the birth canal.

The rats uterus is Y shaped and consists of 2 uterine horns that both empty out into the cervix. At the point where the uterine horns meet it is possible for a baby (or pair of babies) to get stuck. Gently massaging the area can sometimes resolve the problem. If a baby is stuck and cannot be dislodged the babies behind it will die. Although the mother may be able to absorb dead fetuses, there is always a possibility of infection, which can be life threatening to her.

A baby wedged in the birth canal can sometimes be manipulated out using soft forceps and a lubricant such as mineral oil. Often the mother can pull the baby out herself. In such instances you may end up with a baby that has a birth injury (teeth marks, missing tail, bruises, etc.)

Signs of distress may indicate that a trip to the emergency vet is needed Depending on the issue behind the problem, injections of Oxytocin (a medication that induces uterine contractions) or possibly a Caesarian may be necessary.

On occasion during an emergency spay, if the litter is full term, the babies can be harvested alive, cleaned up and given to another dam to be raised. This is not an easy process, but it can be done. "

Is the blood spotting dark and thick or brown?

This is from the links I posted on the last page so you know. You need to read those and keep ratguide bookmarked.


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## ambernd

She's not breathing hard or gasping for air. She's not running around and i cant see anything in her vulva. There is NOT a LOT of blood but im not sure what is considered normal. But at a guess I would say there is a medium amount of blood there. The fluid is like a redish brown. Man I hope she will do ok.....


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## ambernd

so does everyone think it just her water breaking?


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## Matt

From what I just read then I guess we will Find out in the Morning.


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## ambernd

lol.. well everyone keep checking back cuz I promise I will have pictures and updates on mom... But please tell me if you think it's her water or something I should be worried about.. well its a little to late cuz im already worried to death...


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## Matt

Just go watch TV or something and keep the cage in eye sight. 
If you see anything wierd then make a post about it.


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## Kimmiekins

Rats in labor can sense humans being nervous. Calm down and try not to watch her too much. Her being nervous could result in complications.


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## twilight

Be careful! My girl had dead deformed babies inside her and they where stuck. She starting throwing herself against the tank from pain so I rushed to the emergancy vet. On the way she died. 

So don't watch her like a hawk, but keep an eye on her and be on the look out for complications because believe me, they do happen.


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## chrisstrikeagain

I hate to repeat, but please don't breed again...unexperienced breeding is a misake. and i know because i've done it. and zero of the babies lived. it was devastating.


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## ambernd

i cant help being nervous.. but she's not showing any signs of labor and her water broke a long time ago.... she was nesting for a minute there then she went to sleep but idk... nothing looks wrong but im just worried about them being overdue or something...


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## Poppyseed

I sent you a pm about vets in this area (Indianapolis area) None are open on Sundays though. Avian and Exotic DO have emergancies and Dr. Lennox has talked to me on the phone for a sick ferret in the middle of the night before. If you are extrememly worried you might want to go ahead and call her. I've not had the best of luck with her and rats but she has been there in an emergancy with a ferret before and helped my ferret live who was on deaths door. She talked me through some things I could do at home and talked to me to be sure if the visit warrented an emergancy or not. The call to her would be free. I am not 100% sure she will answer her phone this late but call her. 

In case you don't get the pm here is the website:
http://www.birddr.com/Pages/Contact.htm
and her number:
(317) 879-8633 
You will get a voice male that will walk you through who to call in an emergancy.

A regular wellness check is $48 with her last I knew. It seems to be the normal price for rat vets in this area. Emergancy visits are expensive, but sometimes necessary. Hope your girl pulls through and hope you don't breed her again since she is a petstore rat with unknown genetics.


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## ambernd

Well I don't think i need to call her just yet... I think ill wait till (iF) she starts to have noticible problems.... Do you think she will be ok? I know your not here to look at her and stuff but she not showing obvious signs of problems...


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## Poppyseed

Like I said, you can call and talk to her to determine if she will or not. The call is free and she will help guide you to determine. She's the vet and I've never had a litter.

I'm uncertain. According to ratguide, spotting starts the day before or the day of birth.

But yeah, go ahead and call them and ask her about it, she will ask you lots of questions and help you know if it is an emergancy or not. I would at least call tomorrow (you will need to call the emergancy number then to talk to the dr. on call) if she still hasn't given birth. Sounds like as long as there aren't any complications listed one the websites I posted earlier she will be fine. But I would think if she hasn't given birth by the morning that I would call the vet and talk to her about what to do as well as whether or not you should go in.

I think she will give birth any hour now personally. Has she made a nest?


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## ambernd

yea she's had one made for about 3 days now but it keeps moving lol! But she kinda quite messing with it this morning... she worked on it just for a minute earlier... I am seriously about to have a panic attack..lol... not really but close to it... I really hope everything goes well...


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## Rodere

Usually they start making a nest before they give birth. They'll do it, tear it down, and redo it. Is she displaying that type of behavior? 

Watch for signs of stress. She might hunch a bit in pain, but you'll know by watching her if it is extreme. She may roll a little or stretch during the labor and so on. And it is common for them to take rests in between babies or groups of babies. The pregnant rescue rat I had here a couple of years ago even slept in between babies. About scared me to death!

Here's a good site:
http://ratguide.com/breeding/birth/labor_emergencies.php

I don't recall exactly how long they are supposed to be done by. It should say on the websites I have, but I'm not finding it. You might want to look it up if no one else here can tell you. I think the actual birthing process usually is just an hour or two, but I'm not certain on that.


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## ambernd

yea she was nesting this morning but she just stopped all of a sudden...


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## Poppyseed

Well, as I have said emergancy numbers exist for a reason and she has talked me through care to prevent having to make an emergancy visit in the past. If you are in any doubt or think this may be an emergancy call. You know your rat better than us, you can see her and you've been with her longer. So yeah you're the one that can see if she is showing alarm signs. Don't try to convince yourself she isn't if you have the slightest worry that she is indeed.

I'm going to bed, I do hope things are alright. I too am worried and have stayed up just to see your replies hopeing to not see any signs of her struggling. If she does start to show any heavy bleeding or other signs like listed on that last website take her into an emergancy vet. Many people may chide you for 'spending that much on a rat' But every pet we bring in we make a silent vow to take care of them for as long as they live, no matter what expense. We bring the lives into the world, pay the breeder or pet stores or whatever to continue makeing these creatures so they can thrive more so we must take care of them no matter the cost. If everything is failing them we resolve to give them a peaceful sleep at the end if their bodies continue to hold on.

Since you have bred this pet, you are making this vow times 4-16 or even more lives. They all deserve everything you can give them and possibly more if you weren't prepared.

I have had Dr. Lennox make payment plans with me. I gave her my credit card number and she took money out next pay check. That or you could write a check for the future and she will cash it then. That would need to be worked out beforehand but I have never seen her drop care for an animal that needed it just because the person needing care didn't have the money. I don't know if she will do that since you would be a first time client but it never hurts to ask if you think you can't pay for things.

I'm going to bed now. I will look at this again tomorrow. Goodnight and many helpful birth energies to your rat lady. I really hope this goes alright.


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## Kimmiekins

Spotting in small amounts for a day is common. Spotting large amounts is not. Spotting over a day is also not okay if there's no birth. Most births are over in a few hours. Some can take longer, but if it takes too long, there may be a baby stuck in the canal and it then becomes a medical emergency. If she appears to be straining but no babies are coming for over an hour, it's a medical emergency. She may need oxytocin or a cesarean section. If she starts bleeding heavily or becomes listless, a placenta may have detached and it is a BIG medical emergency. If you didn't have a vet already (and you SHOULD by now), then now is the time to find one. ASAP. Since it's Sunday, you may need to find an e-vet, which is not always cheap and many do not take exotics. You won't have time if something goes wrong in the middle of pregnancy.

Try not to hover, it really can cause problems or make mom nervous. When the birthing begins, you may think she's eating the babies. She's most likely eating the placenta... It looks gruesome. She may eat some of the babies, trust her in this, she has a reason. Mostly, leave her alone unless she appears to be in distress. 90% of rats do fine birthing on their own, keep that in mind.

Once the babies are born and labor seems to be over, she might take a break. She will then nurse the babies. If it's a large litter, she may break them into 2 groups. This is fine, she knows she doesn't have enough nipples to feed them all at once. They should all develop white bands across their bellies, which are milk bands and means they are feeding well.

If for some reason, mom does not nurse, rejects the babies, or they are not all being fed well, you must either find a nursing doe (from a breeder or rescue, if you're lucky) or you will have to hand feed which is absolute **** and needs to be done every few hours. Babies do not often survive being hand fed, so it's a huge gamble. The best is ALWAYS finding a surrogate mom.

I hope that calms you down. You really, REALLY should know all this before even thinking about breeding. I hope it goes well, for the sake of your rat and her babies. Keep us updated.


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## ladylady

twilight said:


> Be careful! My girl had dead deformed babies inside her and they where stuck. She starting throwing herself against the tank from pain so I rushed to the emergancy vet. On the way she died.
> 
> So don't watch her like a hawk, but keep an eye on her and be on the look out for complications because believe me, they do happen.


Thanks for saying that

Personaly if had a pregnant rat I would have introduced her to the vet pre labor and had a long chat about what to expect and what to worry about


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## Poppyseed

Kimmiekins: I gave her the name number and address of a exotic vet who sees rats and does emergancies that is close by. I just hope if things went wrong and if she still hasn't given birth that she calls and makes a visit ):

I saw that in her rats that needs homes post she lives nearby.


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## ambernd

Well no babies yet... :-( ... She still hasn't showed any signs of labor or anything.... She just sleeps....


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## Kimmiekins

How lucky that you live close, Poppyseed! 

Have you contacted the vet yet, ambernd? How long has it been since the spotting started?


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## ambernd

well no because it's sunday and im only gonna call the emergancy vet if she has trouble.... But yesterday she was spoting a little bit and it was a brownish red, and about a half hour ago she was spoting red with no sign of brown in it. But she has like 4 different nests made. Is that normal?


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## ambernd

The spoting started yesterday Im not excactly sure when but just as a guess around 3 or 4pm... but keep in mind thats just a guess cuz i really didn't keep track.


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## ambernd

well now that i think about it, it was probably a little later than that.... 4 or 5 ish pm


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## Poppyseed

I thought you said it started the day before when you were talking last night... so was it last night or was it Friday?


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## Poppyseed

ambernd said:


> (the spots started last night and have continued through the day... there is only about 3 but please im really worried....)


Yeah, you said last night yesterday. I'm confused, are you SURE it started around 5?

Like I said give her a call, it's FREE to call her and she can help you answer questions. I repeat, it DOEST NOT COST ANYTHING TO CALL THE E-VET AND ASK QUESTIONS! Then she will help you determine it's an emergancy or not. She's pretty good at not wanting to go in if she doesn't have to so it's not like if it wasn't an emergancy she would make up a reason why it would be. It's not like that.


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## Forensic

Poppyseed said:


> I thought you said it started the day before when you were talking last night... so was it last night or was it Friday?


I thought it was Friday as well.

No matter what, at this point it's been more than a day.

If there are no babies, it's time to worry.


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## Mana

I know nothing about rat breeding, but please please do not wait until it's too late to call the vet! If you don't know what you're doing, you don't know what to look for, and you don't know when "trouble" starts. She might already be in trouble and you just don't realize it. It will not hurt you to call, but it might hurt or even kill her if you don't


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## ambernd

I dont know what day it was, im confusing myself, as well as you...lol...well let me think here... To tell you the truth I'm seriously having a brain fart right now lol... It might have been yetserday but idk... im confused, sorry.... now this is bothering the crap out of me!... but with the whole vet thing i guess i dont want to call her cuz im scared she's gonna give me bad news... I'm still not sure what the normal for bleeding is but i think it might be over the normal...


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## Forensic

Better bad news than your rat dying.


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## Forensic

ambernd said:


> oh yea and I'm worried about her... I know that when their water breaks its like water with a red tint to it. But I put paper towels in her cage last night and where she had used the bathroom on them it had a tint of brown/red to it... Is that her water breaking or is that somthing I should get checked out? There is like 3 or 4 different spots like that on the paper towels. Remember that was last night so im not sure if could be her water. Please help!!! I don't know what to do and I'm really worried.....HELP!!


Posted Saturday at 9 pm.


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## Mana

This is your rat's LIFE you're talking about! And the lives of the babies inside of her! You can't not call because you're scared, it's not about you, it's about them. When you decided to breed her you made a commitment to her, and now you're failing her and her babies by not just making a call! What's worse is you're not even calling now that you think something's wrong. This is when you have to call!

Please do the right thing.


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## ambernd

im calling right now


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## Rodere

Update us as soon as you are done talking to her. You should always, always!! call the vet before just so they know what they are dealing with. What if you waited until she was in trouble (if she isn't already!) and the vet happened to be out of town. She'd end up dieing on you. You can't just not do something because you are afraid of what you'll find out. She's pregnant because of you. Her life and the lives of her offspring are in your hands.


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## ambernd

She didn't answer... :-(... i left her a message with my situation and left her my number..... i hope she calls back soon


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## Kimmiekins

If there is more then a quarter sized blob of blood or two combined, and it's been that long, you NEED to get a hold of the vet. Now.

Most vet have emergency numbers, or answering service or something. If not, it's time to find an e-vet that takes exotics. You may need to travel a distance to find one. Open the phone book and start calling.

You can't be scared now. This is one thing that happens when you breed rats willy nilly. You made her pregnant, now it's your job to make sure she survives - and the babies too, hopefully.


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## ambernd

well she called back... She said that i shouldn't be too worried about her because sometimes they do have extra bleeding like that and she said that since she isn't here and cant see how much blood is there then if I wanted i could bring her in as an emergancy but it would be expencive... but she said the best thing to do is wait it out or if i wanted to make sure then i could go have x-rays done or a c-section.....


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## ambernd

so i guess it's a waiting game now... :-(... i hate waiting...lol


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## Forensic

Is she still mostly just sleeping?


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## ambernd

yea....


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## Forensic

Is she still nesting or has she stopped entirely?


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## ambernd

she will get up every now and then and nest for about 5 minutes then goes back to sleep..


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## Forensic

Is she eating or drinking?


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## ambernd

yea..not that often though.. and if she does eat it's very little.


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## Forensic

Have you tried giving her something high energy and high protein like a boiled egg or something?

Something really enticing to keep her strength up?

I really hope this turns out okay for you and the rattie...


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## ambernd

yea she LOVES boiled eggs... I actually jus gave her one last night


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## Kimmiekins

How long did she suggest waiting? If there is a baby stuck in the canal, waiting is going to be a death sentence for at least the babies, if not her.


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## ambernd

she didnt say... but im pretty sure that none of them are stuck because i cant see anything in her vulva and she is showing no signs of distress, pain, or discomfort...


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## Kimmiekins

Hmm. Okay, but honestly, I'd call back and ask how long you should wait, considering how long it's already been. Just my thought. Or, consult another vet.

I mean, rats can spot for 24 hours, but hasn't it been longer then that? You mentioned that you thought she'd broken her water at one point... they should give birth within 24 hours of doing so, I believe that generally, birth is usually few hours or so after the water breaks. Nearly every reference states that bleeding for 24 hours without births is not a good sign.

Any breeders on the site, give your suggestions on what you would do at this point?

Births here at the rescue have gone well so far, so I'm just going with what I've learned in research.

Is she acting normal? Stretching, putting herself in strange positions, licking her genitals? Or just acting like she usually does?


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## ambernd

no she hasn't been in any odd positions she has just been curled up in a ball sleeping.... She is acting pretty normal except that she doesn't wanna play and when I go to put food in there she doesn't snatch it out of my hands like she usually does she just sniffs it and then lets me drop it in there and she doesn't go after it. And she licks her genitals right after she beeds a little bit but other than that i dont think she does.


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## Poppyseed

I think if there are no babies by tomorrow you should go in tomorrow. And by tomorrow there are other vets you can call and ask. You have to do that early tomorrow though.

Sadly guys, that's the only e-vet I know of that will see rats in this area.

There is a drug they can give her to try and induce birth. You can ask about that as well.


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## JennieLove

Yeah for sure! Just becuase you think she is fine doesnt mean there might not be something really harmful happening on the inside. Your not only risking the babies but also the momma too, keep that in mind.


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## lilspaz68

It sounds like something is very wrong. She's still "bleeding", she's not hungr or drinking much (preggy girls eat, they will stop a few hours before the birth but other than that they eat), she's sleeping all the time. Oh dear. 

Vet time.


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## ambernd

SHE JUST HAD TWO BABIES AS OF 11:30AM!!! she's not done yet but she is cleaning them and nursing im so exciting!!! i keep trying not to watch her but its so hard!!!


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## jimmy_portsmouth

by the size of her i think your in for a fair few more lol good luck !!


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## Forensic

ambernd said:


> SHE JUST HAD TWO BABIES AS OF 11:30AM!!! she's not done yet but she is cleaning them and nursing im so exciting!!! i keep trying not to watch her but its so hard!!!


Keep an eye on her still... just because she's had a couple doesn't mean she's out of the woods.


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## ambernd

well she had a third one but unfortunatly it was a stillborn.. :-(... she ate him so she still has two in there... she is sleeping right now, taking a rest...


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## ambernd

well i think thats all of them... I cant see any in her vulva and i cant feel any in her stomach and she isn't having contractions or anything.


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## ambernd

pictures!!


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## ambernd

pictures!!


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## Forensic

Just two (well, three...)? If so that seems small, lucky you!


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## KimmiesGuineas

To tell you the truth, I know nothing about rat pregnancy, labor, and babies. But I do know that she was huge, those babies are very big, and there was a spotting problem. I think that she should go into the vet just to make sure that she's done because it just doesn't seem right to me.

Experts? Any comments?


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## Kimmiekins

I agree. That was a very large belly for only 3 babies. I'm always of the mindset better safe than sorry. If there's something going on with mom and it's not addressed, you could end up with orphans & need to feed by hand.

Are they feeding well?


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## Poppyseed

Looks like hoods to me! Glad your ratty had her babies, I hope one is a boy and one's a girl so you can keep mom in a sep cage with her daughter and dad in a sep cage with his son. How is mom doing? Is she looking alright? Does she still look like she could have more stillbourns in there?


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## ambernd

Well you can tell that they are late because you can already see the color starting to show... turns out they are going to be black hooded...(or some dark color)... Cheese is doing great she is a little nippy wich i don't blame her... she has got me twice today, i didn't bleed or anything but just a warning.... I felt her belly and i cant feel anything in there and nothing is stuck in her vulva.... both babies have nice milk bands and are doing great... i think she was just big because she was overdue... But poppyseed do you know anyone that wants a rat? I'm gonna keep one of them (for sure) but I'm still debating on keeping the other one... If I keep the other one then I would have to build a bigger cage... but if you know anyone please let me know.... btw how old do they have to be to tell the sex???


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## Forensic

ambernd said:


> Well you can tell that they are late because you can already see the color starting to show... turns out they are going to be black hooded...(or some dark color)... Cheese is doing great she is a little nippy wich i don't blame her... she has got me twice today, i didn't bleed or anything but just a warning.... I felt her belly and i cant feel anything in there and nothing is stuck in her vulva.... both babies have nice milk bands and are doing great... i think she was just big because she was overdue... But poppyseed do you know anyone that wants a rat? I'm gonna keep one of them (for sure) but I'm still debating on keeping the other one... If I keep the other one then I would have to build a bigger cage... but if you know anyone please let me know.... btw how old do they have to be to tell the sex???


You can probably tell the sex right now, actually. 
http://angelratdesigns.com/sexingrats.html
http://www.ratz.co.uk/sexingrats.html


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## Poppyseed

Where is your male liveing? Is he liveing with a friend? He's not in the cage with the mom is he?! She can get pregnate while nursing which is not good at all for the mom. I would never breed her again, or any at all after this experiance personally. I advise you towards that course of action.

Are you getting the male(s) neutered? I think Dr. Lennox charges $100-$150 for a neuter and so does my vet which I love right now Dr. Paul in Noblesville. I'm pretty sure that's the standing price in this area for rat neuters.

I thought people had expressed interest in your rats, I'm confused. I don't know of anyone and while I do love rats I have five boys in three cages along with three cats and three ferrets. I'm already in over my head pet number wise lol. I love them all though, and they all still get all the attention and vet visits when needed even if I'm flat broke XD I geuss I would be spending it on stupid stuff if I wasn't spending it on vet bills 

My advise: Two cages one for two females and one for two males kept seperate and apart at all times. Rats always need a same sex friend or else they get extremely depressed. Hopefully you have one male and one female there so that should take care of things. If not you will have to find a same sex friend for whichever one is lacking a same sex rat friend. Just don't breed again lol.


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## Kimmiekins

> Well you can tell that they are late because you can already see the color starting to show... turns out they are going to be black hooded...(or some dark color)...


How do you figure that seeing darker pigment is a way to tell how late they are? I mean, I'm not expert on breeding, but I've never heard that before. Source, please?

You should be able to sex newborns from birth.


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## Forensic

Kimmiekins said:


> Well you can tell that they are late because you can already see the color starting to show... turns out they are going to be black hooded...(or some dark color)...
> 
> 
> 
> How do you figure that seeing darker pigment is a way to tell how late they are? I mean, I'm not expert on breeding, but I've never heard that before. Source, please?
> 
> You should be able to sex newborns from birth.
Click to expand...

Well 'cause normally you can't see pigment until a few days later (day 4?) :?


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## Kimmiekins

Hmmm. Interesting. I mean, I know the stages (especially since the last litter born in the rescue!), but I'd never read that if there is pigment, it must mean they're late. *goes off to Google*

**EDIT** Okay, I'm really confused about this. :? I can not find *anything* that states if pigment is obvious from birth, that the rittens are "overdue". I can, however, find more then enough photos of rats that are 1 day old (established breeder rats and otherwise) and obviously will/did turn out to be dark hooded, or dark berks, etc. In litters where some are dark colors and some are light, you can tell a difference for sure.

So I'd still love to read up on this, if anyone has links.


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## ambernd

my male rat isn't even at the same household as cheese! lol .. But he has a friend.. well his brother actually.... and when the babies are weaned cheese will have her friend back.. her name is swiss and is cheese's sister.... Well the people I had lined up where my sisters friends and their parents wouldn't let them have one.... Then I know a girl named sonya that wanted one but about 2 days ago she didn't want to wait 5 weeks for one so she already got one.... and then the same thing happend with my friend kaiti.... and the pet store i work at (i think i mentioned it earlier) has way too many rats to sell as it is... but im in no rush to sell them.... ok but i went to the web sites that forensic sent me and I think I have a boy and a girl... if so than im naming the boy Thaddeus and the girl Nacho...


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## ambernd

Well Kimmiekins I'm not for sure about it either but all I know is that on thier 3rd or 4th day then their skin starts to change to the color that their coat will be, but since when they came out you could tell that they are going to be dark hooded then I was just assuming that she was late by 3 or 4 days...


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## Kimmiekins

It's not important, anyway, long as they are healthy.


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## ambernd

Well I was thinking.... and I think I'm gonna sell my 2 boys (stewie and brian)... They aren't very lovable and they are always anxious to get back in their cage after play and they always go hide in a corner when i do let them out... and when I try to love on them they want to get away... but idk im just not happy with them.... anyone think I should sell them?


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## jaded12

I don't think you should get rid of an animal just because they're not perfect... its not the animals fault... how would you like it if your parents decided to get rid of you just because you weren't what they wanted you to be and you didn't always make them happy. And don't sell them if you decide to... adopt them out...


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## Forensic

ambernd said:


> Well I was thinking.... and I think I'm gonna sell my 2 boys (stewie and brian)... They aren't very lovable and they are always anxious to get back in their cage after play and they always go hide in a corner when i do let them out... and when I try to love on them they want to get away... but idk im just not happy with them.... anyone think I should sell them?


No.

Good heavens no.

They're your pet. Your child. Your responsibility. Just like the babies are. You should take care of them and work with them on their poorer habits.


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## ambernd

yeah i guess you guys are rght..... It just feels like they don't like me or something.... and I kinda feel bad... :-(


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## Forensic

Let's see....

Left to right in the signature, I have a skittish, shy rat that sometimes runs away from me, a grumpy rat that bites when he's annoyed, a sweet by shy rat who doesn't like leaving his cage much, a definite omega rat, who's a love but scared of his own shadow, the true love bug of them all, and the shy, hyper squeaky rat who hates all the other rats, except his twin.


Would I get rid of any of them?

No.


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## Rodere

You really should tell your friends that they should keep their rats in pairs. You should adopt the other baby out to a home w ith another rat or two at least (of the same sex!)

And you need to let them know that rats do need to see the vet now and then. As they say, if you can't afford the vet you can't afford the pet. No animal should be neglected vet care because of money. If so, then the person shouldn't have pets at all.

And you really should have her x-rayed to see if she has any more babies inside of her. There are places in a womb that they can hide and not be felt. It's surely dead by now, but it will rot inside her and cause a very very bad infection and would eventually kill her. That's an awfully small litter for such a huge belly. I'd be calling the vet ASAP to set up an appointment. I work at a vet clinic and see people wait too long, way too often.


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## Kimmiekins

I have 12 boys of my own. 1 has attacked multiple rats and myself and my partner. He is now a single rat. One came to us as an apparent feeder breeder survivor, never having been touched (he was 6 months). He is now a sweet rat who boggles when you stroke his head. 1 of my boys has cage aggression and has caused permanent damage to the knuckle of one of my fingers with a severe bite. Outside of the cage, he's a sweet squish. 5 of my boys came from a hoarder who's had over 60 rats, they probably did not get much if any attention. They were screamers. They are all rather sweet, a few don't like being held but love us anyway.

Would I get rid of them? Never. I love them all.

If your rats have problems, the best thing to do is work with them. They are your responsibility.

I run a rat rescue. I see what happens when people dump rats that the "owners" weren't happy with/didn't pay attention to/got tired of/etc. The rats know full well they aren't wanted. In every case so far, the rat makes great strides with love, attention and treats. All of which could have been done without dumping the rat. If I can do it with running a rescue, having my own mischief and having other animals and responsibilities, so can anyone else.

Also, please don't "sell" any rat. Pet stores sell rats. The rat community likes to refer to it as adoptions or re-homing.


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## Poppyseed

I have five rats. They are pretty good all and all but none are "perfect" shoulder riders or anything. Odin probably is the one that has been hardest to turn around, and when he started to become less afraid and more tolerable of out time was when he became ill, and then that turned out to be a chronic illness. Even though he probably isn't very bright, only has one eye and is grumpy with everyone else and HATES to be out of his cage I kept him and love him just as I love the others. I'm finding strange enough my love has increased lately and I'm so happy he's doing well on his meds even though he will need them for life. I will give them to him because I purchased him and made that commitment.

I know your probably telling yourself that to keep the babies. But you really should work with the boys. Have you read more on forced socialisation? Bastian was afraid too and forced socialisation did wonders for him, and has made Odin a little more tolerable as well. You take each on out for 20 min a day and keep your hands on them at all times. Do it every day and you need to do it for 20 minutes for each rat and give them a treat after it is done. Preferably something they rarely or never get that the LOOVE. Rats cannot hold onto their fear for very long and 20 minutes ensures they are not afraid when you put them back and the treat reinforces them and makes them look foreward to being with you. Success can happen as soon as a few days to months but you need to keep at it and afterwards continue to love and show them affection to keep their trust in you.

HOWEVER, I think that if you aren't able to find yourself giveing them a chance you should consider rehoming them and rehoming all of your rats for that matter :/ I would hate to see the boys be neglected and unloved just because they aren't perfect. There is a rat rescue in Indy called EARPS and it's $10 a rat to surrender to them. You pay them. You also need to give them the cage as well.

But I think you should work with them. They probably are fine, just try forced socialisation like I had mentioned before.


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## lilspaz68

oh btw here's my litter at 1 day old










Markings. 

I have 38 here and some are troublesome but I love them all the same. You just need to learn their body language and figure out what is bothering your boys.


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## chrisstrikeagain

like others said, work with them. one out of three of my girls are perfect but i love them all. and you should keep the babies since you chose to breed. you need to have homes found first and make sure its a definite home. one who will go to a vet if needed.


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## Kimmiekins

> oh btw here's my litter at 1 day old


Yes, that's EXACTLY what I was trying to say!


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## Vixie

To be fair, everyone, I recently had to give Ed away.

He has cage aggression, and was very skiddish, he'd bitten my sister and my mother, I was the only one who could handle him without biting.

I don't have the time for rehabilitating a rat, with my job and school fast approaching I would never make much progress with him. I handed him over to a trusted friend who has two other amazingly sweet boys. She has the time and patience to handle him and give him the affection he needs.

Don't get me wrong, I loved that ugly little thing just as much as my other ratties, I just didn't have the time for him so I gave him to someone who does.


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## chrisstrikeagain

Vixie, That isn't bad. you know he has a good home. thats good
Ambernd is thinkin of sellin them.most likely meanin to someone who she doesnt know. so how can you gaurentee the care of that rat.


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## Vixie

chrisstrikeagain said:


> Vixie, That isn't bad. you know he has a good home. thats good
> Ambernd is thinkin of sellin them.most likely meanin to someone who she doesnt know. so how can you gaurentee the care of that rat.


A good point.


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## Taru

That's kind of a different situation there Vixie...you didn't "sell" your rat because you didn't like him, you took him from a situation where he would not thrive and made sure that the situation you were putting him into was what was best for him. I think that what you did was the right thing to do because you were thinking in the best terms for the rat, not what was easiest and best for you.

That is the major difference... I have a dog that is 14 years old, she bites, she throws up all over the floors, she won't go outside for anyone but my mom or me, she won't eat unless my mom or I am home, she barks all night, wakes my mom and me up at least three times a night, and never once have we thought about getting rid of her. 

She is a bit of a handful, but she is our responsibility because we got her as a puppy, now that she's no longer cute and cuddly is no reason to just dump her. She's not the dog that I want, but she is the dog that I have and I have a responsibility to her. Would I like another dog who was sweet and not such a pain, absolutely, but I won't do it because that would be unfair to Cinder (my current dog) and irresponsible on my part as well. 

I think that goes for any animal. If you can't care for one pet, you should not be getting a replacment, you need to deal with the pet that you have.

That is just my personal oppinion, but think very hard before you give up a pet.

Emy


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## ambernd

hey will everyone please read my post in "rat homes" titled "Help me Please!!" thank you!


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## ambernd

my little ratties have little fuzzies growing on them!!! they are so cute!!!


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## Luvin_My_Pets

Cute. Put up some more piccies


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