# do people want a sticky on trust training/nervous rats?



## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Hey guys,

I've ended up with a bit of time on my hands *coughquitmyjobcough* and have noticed around and abouts that we have lots of members asking about nervous rats and how to get them to come out of their shell a bit?

I'm happy to compile a bunch of information/methods etc etc if you guys are interested? 

If people are, I'd love to know about different approaches people have adopted, how and when they are best put to use, problematic cases and how they've been overcome and all that. I'm a bit of an info hoarder - so the more the better 

Let me know and I'll get on it asap


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## beanieboo-rattles (Jan 3, 2008)

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES 




DO it lol. As for me i used forced socialisation with my first two ((the tamest lol) And baby food bribes for the other 3


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## Poppyseed (Feb 1, 2007)

DO it lol. As for me i used forced socialisation with my first two ((the tamest lol) And baby food bribes for the other 3 )[/quote]Sounds good. I have a nervous rat I'm working with now. I don't bug him as much as I should as I should get him out daily but still he has come a long way. I just had to learn his boundries and what makes him too nervous for comfort and what he can work with. I can't get him out of the cage if he has high ground as I have to come over his head and grab him otherwise I give him the opportunity to nip. He also can't be on the same level I'm picking up poop as he hates it when I pick up his poop in his cage. He has to have his time and his cover but he has his places he feels totally comfortable in. We have been able to play together on the floor and while he's not huge on human contact he will come over to me and show interest while playing now!

He's still easy to set off if you don't know him. I geuss I was a little backwards and let him train me but I think we've worked things out to where he's comfortable with me as long as I don't cross his lines and boundries. He's the prettiest rat by far but also the most nippy ^_~


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## KayRatz (Apr 5, 2007)

yes I do, zinc needs it


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## OnlyOno (Apr 4, 2007)

even at a year and a half old, mozart is hard to handle because she gets nervous and dives into my shirts. i love her dearly and want her to be as sociable and loving as picasso.

so i guess i'm saying YES do it! and maybe as well as taming new, baby rats, you can suggest the little things to do every day that can help older rats come around as well?

click!:


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## Carlito (Apr 27, 2008)

I know this person - http://www.ratforum.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=8645.html
and meee - http://www.ratforum.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=8578.html both have nervous ratties. I see lots of posts too, all with different circumstances. I'm all for this thread as what works for one might not work for another


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## Buggzter (Feb 13, 2008)

YES!!!! One of mine, Pretty Girl, is a nervous rat and a couple of my girls have been beating on her too (no longer allowed to play together until PG gets some more courage...)...

AND I NEED HELP WITH HER!!!!  I haven't posted my individual case since there are others with that right now here... 

So the sticky would be great for us!

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU...


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## kenRakuu (Mar 29, 2008)

A thousand times yes!


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## Emster (Dec 9, 2007)

Sounds pretty good to me.
I could do with some tips/help with helping Doris with her nervousness (Or hatred :lol: ) of humans.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

So, so far (it's taken me all night) I have managed to write a huge section on 'what makes a rat nervous' - I personally think it's vital to understand the why before you can think about changing the behaviour.

I'm planning on two further sections;

Forced Socialization
Trust Training

Is there anything else you guys specifically want me to add?


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## sbdirham (Mar 5, 2008)

Oh please!! I need help with Simon! He started out as cuddly and sweet, but has recently become nervous and jumpy. I am trying to socialize him, but he thumps his tail at me and tries to avoid being held.
I need ideas and tips!!!!


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## shinzo-chan (Apr 2, 2008)

YES!! Sounds brilliant, its really good that youve dont a 'what makes a rat nervous' section too. I FINALLY got my two females on friday, theyre dumbos and were more expensive that i though theyd be, but i love them anyway, lol. Neither was handled as babies, ive just put up a thread about it asking for help actually, in the behaviour section *coughhintcough* 

I say go for it, itll be really good help for a lot of people and i know ill appreciate it (even if no one else does! ...jk.. dont kill me.. >>'')


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Ok guys - I'm planning on writing the Forced Socialization section tonight. Sorry it's taking so long - I've been putting in a lot of research and had my hands kind of full with rat treatments recently! Sorry! But it is getting done.

This is the 'Why are rats nervous section"

I haven't proof read etc yet, but can you guys just read through and give me any ideas, info, let me know anything I've left out?  thanks

Nervous Rats

Hopefully this will be able to help those out there who have found themselves with a nervous rat on their hands and are unsure why and what to do about it.

Before you find go looking for how to correct their behaviour, take a little time to understand why your rat may be nervous.

*What makes a rat nervous?*

Rats that are newly home

1) _Pet Shops_ - Pet store animals are rarely held while they are kept inside the store. If they are handled, it is usually not a quality of handling that is expected to â€˜tameâ€™ a rat. Pet store rats usually come from rat mills or from profit breeders who sell them to the pet shop at a young age and give them little or no opportunity to gain any positive interaction with humans. As you can imagine, encountering a human - and whatâ€™s more, a human that wants to hold you - can be quite a daunting prospect to a rat that isnâ€™t used to it. There can sometimes be a noticeable difference in the overall temperament of pet store/feeder rats when compared to those of a quality breeder. This is somewhat down to the fact that pet stores and pet store affiliated breeders breed for profit and not the health, temperament and longevity of life that recognised and experienced breeders aspire to.

2) _Stress_ - The stress and fear associated with moving into a new home can take itâ€™s toll on certain temperaments of rats and the ratâ€™s individual personality will play a huge part in how well it adapts to itâ€™s new home and itâ€™s new owner. A rat with an outgoing personality will acclimatise very fast and you may notice within a few days it is begging for more play time. Others, however, have a more timid personality and it is these naturally nervous individuals that need a little extra effort to help them settle down fully to their new home. After all, they may be encountering a lot of new sights, smells and sounds (may even being held properly for the first time) and this may unease them initially.

3) [I[Rat instincts[/I] - Rats have evolved being prey first and foremost so their instincts are all geared towards certain survival behaviours; running, hiding, cowering, squeaking and in some cases biting. Rats also have, in general, very bad eyesight, so in the presence of the â€˜unknownâ€™ it is far more likely for their instincts to take over and effect their behaviour - this usually helps them place humans (the larger species higher up in the food chain) as predators. For example, they may easily liken our hand reaching down to pick them up to a hawk(predator) in the wild, coming to snatch it up and kill it - so of course they run and hide. Until they become to realise that humans arenâ€™t the mean nasty creatures that they make us out to be, they are more likely to exhibit fear response behaviour. Itâ€™s nothing personal, honest!

Older rats, resident rats and rescues

1) _Previous history_ - If you have acquired a rat that is not young and exhibiting nervous behaviour, do you know anything of itâ€™s background? It is usually vital that you know as much as their past as possible as it can help you understand behavioural problems that the rat may now be exhibiting. Common cases of nervous rats in later life is simply due to a previous lack of human interaction or the effort not being made (the problem may not have been noticed) to help the rat gain confidence around people. Neglected and abused rats may often have a deep-seated fear of humans (understandably), however, it is not uncommon to turn them around once you find a method that suits them.

2) _Previously learnt behaviour_ - Some of us have resident rats that have been with us some time, however, still exhibit nervous behaviour during their interactions with their humans. In many cases, this can have roots in a behavioural cycle that both rat and owner have subconsciously entered into. For example, if a timid rat does not want to interact with itâ€™s owner it will exhibit fear behaviour; running away, hiding somewhere or squeaking when touched. The owner, understandably, thinks â€˜She doesnâ€˜t like being picked upâ€™, â€˜Iâ€™ll get him out laterâ€™, â€˜She doesnâ€™t want to be held right nowâ€™ and leaves the rat to continue with itâ€™s behaviour (weâ€™ll say staying hidden until the human has left). As the owner has allowed the rat to reach itâ€™s objective (not being held) through itâ€™s behaviour - the rat is therefore far more likely to repeat this behaviour the next time. Cases such as this occur many many times a day without half of us realising that we are actually encouraging the nervous behaviour.

The same can be said for much of the aggressive behaviour that rats can sometime exhibit. Biting their owner as a â€˜back the heck off, buddyâ€™ gesture isnâ€™t a very nice experience, but by backing off and leaving the rat to itâ€™s own devices once more, is encouraging it to repeat the behaviour again.

3) _Quality time_ - How much do you handle the rat in question? The recommended daily interaction period with your rats should be at least one hour. Some naturally nervous rats require a lot of human interaction to help them build up their confidence. Sometimes too little time spent with the nervous rat can cause the nervous behaviour to persist.

Are you nervous?

Are you nervous of handling your rats, or the particular rat in question?

Rats in the wild live very socially and they rely on each other in their mischief to alert them to danger. They also rely on other animals around them to warn them when a predator is nearby - and they sense this through the behaviour of other creatures. After all, they do say that animals can smell fear, right?

If you are a nervous handler, there is no doubt that you rat has picked up on it. Unfortunately, what your body language is saying to the rat is â€˜Hey, Iâ€™m nervous .. Thereâ€™s a predator aroundâ€™ and the rat will, of course, act accordingly. They donâ€™t understand that the source of your fear is actually them (they see themselves as prey!). 

Itâ€™s not an easy thing to suddenly forget about your fear of the rat, but you can certainly help and ease the effects that your fear has on the rat itself. Some of the techniques suggested are talking softly to the rat as you pick it up or handle it - it is meant to calm the rat and distract you from your fear (singing quietly is a good trick). Another trick is to exhale while picking the rat up to exhale slowly - this will encourage you to not hold your breath and is another sign to the rat that you are relaxed and (despite how you really feel) not afraid. Once you establish a sense of mutual ease between yourself and your rat friend, both of your confidences should start to grow.

Itâ€™s always good to remember in situations like this that rats do not usually bite unless they feel it is absolutely necessary - as a general rule they are incredibly tolerant creatures


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## ithinkican (May 9, 2008)

You said "The same can be said for much of the aggressive behaviour that rats can sometime exhibit. Biting their owner as a â€˜back the heck off, buddyâ€™ gesture isnâ€™t a very nice experience, but by backing off and leaving the rat to itâ€™s own devices once more, is encouraging it to repeat the behaviour again."

I'm wondering how to react differently in this situation. When she bites aggresively I do take my hand back- partly to avoid getting bit again and partly to apply pressure so I'll stop bleeding. I understand your point, and it is a good one, but what should I (and others) do differently so as not to encourage this behaviour?


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

Well, in my experience if I get bitten I pull away initially, it's natural instinct. But I then take two seconds to monitor the damage then grab the offender (with Ray - my problematic biter - I am forced to scruff him initially to get him to stop seeing red) then just hold them, firmly, in your lap for approx 10-15 mins. It's using similar techniques as the forced socialization method, but it will help break the cycle of 'bite and back off'. You are putting yourself as boss, even if you have to sit there holding them in a towel.

This will, usually, work quite well with Ray. I discovered it a few weeks ago and so far I've treated major and minor bites in exactly the same way. He started off very grumpy with me holding him on my lap, but after for first 5 minutes the struggling stops and the bonding can begin.

His problem is hormonal though, so it's not a cure to his problem. Fear biting would probably work quite well using this technique.


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## ithinkican (May 9, 2008)

Thank you! I look forward to reading the rest of your installments when you post them!


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## Drew (May 13, 2008)

I really need this my 2 new rats are petrified of me.


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## CaptainFlow (May 16, 2007)

Food! That's my method, I can't stress it enough that when a rat knows you're the reason why the tasty morsels are showing up, you're suddenly a LOT less scary! 

I started seeing a lot of progress with my girls from pet stores when I stopped dumping food in their cage and instead handed them piece of it. At first they did the whole grab and run, but later as they realized my hand wasn't going to hurt them, they'd stick around a little longer. Eventually they started coming towards me instead of away. 

I also give them each a little tidbit before freerange time now (a half of a yogie or a little handfull of Suebees, or something), from my hand, just to reinforce the me=food=good before they get too far into my room.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

I'm about 80% finished on the info! So expect it soon!


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