# Carrier method help



## Rayrats (Aug 19, 2018)

I have two adult males (Simon and Samual) who I have been trying to introduce for months now using the "neutral territory" method. After excessive bloodshed I decided to get my aggressive, older male (Simon) a Deslorelin implant to slow his testosterone development (He has had a dramatic shift in behavior since then and has been VERY calm). This time around I'm using the Carrier method. I feel unsure about the results I'm getting and would like advice! They have been in a small cat carrier with scattered food and a water bottle since yesterday afternoon. They had many small squabbles and my smaller male was VERY vocal during the whole thing. I've heard people say they've gotten positive results within just a few hours of doing this but even today they're still rearing at one another and seem constantly tense! My older male with the injection seems calm and only gets angry with prolonged prodding by my younger boy. This morning while cleaning out some fear poops from the carrier (both rats were kept in my lap during the whole cleaning) I saw Samual (the younger boy) groom my older boy's face and chest and nibble the fur around his ears. They refuse to sleep close to one another and are very on edge and still having small spats. I thought grooming meant progress? Does this process take more than a few hours or a single day like everyone else claims it does? These are my FIRST pair of rats so please answer politely, I'm trying everything I can to get them to bond. Second question: Should I bathe them together then place them back into the carrier? The fear poops got quite messy


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## Coffeebean (Jan 6, 2017)

Yes it can take awhile in some cases before they're ready to be moved into a larger cage, they don't always work things out as fast as we would like them to unfortunately. Introducing my newest little ones to one of my females took a good half of a week before they were ready to go into the big cage, she is kind of a bratty girl lol. And then that took another week for them to work things out in the big cage. It all depends on the rats. Don't worry if it has only been a day, it can be a few days before they are happy enough with each other to proceed. It doesn't sound like you are doing anything wrong imo. I do like to cover the floor with food when I'm doing carrier intros though. It can keep them feeling a little more positive. If things are difficult then sometimes I will drizzle the rats with chocolate syrup (not too much or they get annoyed!) and they will often groom it off each other. Then after awhile I bathe them together to get the syrup off, and put them back in the carrier with a warm towel. That often gets them cuddling up.


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## Rayrats (Aug 19, 2018)

Thanks for the advice Coffeebean! I did mix in some granola with the rat food on the floor earlier today to cheer them up, it's their favorite treat. I'm glad to know this may take longer than how many Carrier Method stories seem for portray it. I don't have any chocolate syrup but I do have coconut oil. They both, oddly enough, love eating it off their tails (I use it as a moisturizer on their tails in the winter) I'll give them a bath together and oil them up! They've spent most of the day sleeping and staring at eachother so far. Thank you for your help!


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## Kelsbels (Aug 12, 2015)

Grooming is an excellent sign.

What is their first cage? It really needs to be small so that they're touching. It seems awful, but it forces them to be very close to one another.

Shadow the Rat shows how it works, and what cages are necessary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOusjfqR77k&t=7s

I've done carrier intros 3 times now with females rats, and all have been successful. With the most recent taking only a day. 

However, this isn't the case for all rats, and ones who are aggressive may need longer. 

When you have them in the first carrier (the smallest) I suggest putting down papers towels and food. If you can't get water in there a watery melon or cucumber would work. When they are relaxed and sleeping on or close to each other then you can move them to a small hamster cage. I'd move the stinky paper towels and food into this new cage but add some bedding and more food, and water bottles.

Take it slow at this stage and as they are getting along you can add in hammocks, hides, toys, very slowly. If they are aggressive at any point you can always move back a step. Once they're snuggling with each other for a while and haven't had any major incidents you can move them to a larger cage. I often move my girls to half their SRS cage, but it's completely empty except bedding, the bedding I move from the hamster cage, and water bottles. Then as they behave with each other I add in more items to the cage until I open up the entire cage.

Squeaks and wrestling seem to be pretty normal in introductions. As long as they aren't taking chunks out of each other then I'd leave them to it. 

Do not bathe your rats or remove these poops. I know it stinks to high heaven sometimes, but interrupting the first few stages could cause them to go back to stage one. It's a smelly process because they're animals. Believe me, I wanted to clean out the carrier because the poops were too much at times.


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## Rayrats (Aug 19, 2018)

I'm using a cat carrier atm, it has paper towels under a small layer of fleece but they have about 3-4 inches of space between them. I can see about finding something smaller to use so that they can touch. I have a hamster cage I was planning to use for the second larger cage when they make it to that step. I'll take your advice and not clean up anymore after them, although I am worried about possible myco flare ups because of the smell. But I will see if I can stop by the pet store to find something smaller for them (they're both quite large so I'm sure a medium carrier would be a tight squeeze) Thank you very much for you suggestion and help! And is there a way I can reward positive behavior or should I just leave them 100% alone? Although as I'm writing this I looked over to them sleeping close together! They're in a sort of yin yang with their noses touching each others' butts but earlier today they were laying side by side. Not super cuddly but they aren't sleeping on opposite sides of each other.


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## Rayrats (Aug 19, 2018)

second update: they're spooning now and I feel like crying tears of joy


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## Kelsbels (Aug 12, 2015)

That sounds really good already! What stage are you on now?


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## Rayrats (Aug 19, 2018)

Kelsbels said:


> That sounds really good already! What stage are you on now?


 They're still in the cat carrier right now but they've been cuddling on and off for the past few hours and eating next to each other! I think tonight I'll prepare the larger hamster cage with a water bottle and bedding and move them in first thing in the morning while they're groggy and sleepy and add in the old paper towels.


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## Kelsbels (Aug 12, 2015)

They sound ready to me.


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## Rayrats (Aug 19, 2018)

So I guess Samual decided he didn't want to wait until tomorrow for the larger cage and ate a rat sized hole in the mesh carrier :/ ! I placed them both in the hamster cage and there's a bit of chasing and shoving going on. Mostly Samual, the younger one, being the culprit of this and Simon is, thankfully, tolerating this and not lashing out. I'll be adding a second water bottle to the cage as well!


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## Kelsbels (Aug 12, 2015)

LOL oh Samual! Well, hey, they made it clear they were ready!


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## Rayrats (Aug 19, 2018)

They did very well in the hamster cage but I had to go back a step! Simon tolerates Samual's prodding and ambitious grooming very well but I think it went to Sammy's head. He's been pushing Simon around and has become quite a bully. I got a little carrier this morning to help them rebond after Simon lashed out at Sam this morning and it's going super well! I took a picture of them sleeping together I hope it uploaded correctly


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## Kelsbels (Aug 12, 2015)

Aw it happens, younger rats can get on older rat's nerves. Congratulations on your progress though, it's good to hear that they're getting along for the most part.


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## Rayrats (Aug 19, 2018)

Yeah Samual is very rambunctious and has always been hyperactive and waaay too eager to rough house, Simon is super mellow and would prefer cuddles over play time any day. You should see him use Simon as a step stool to investigate the roofs of the cages! They have made progress I could have never gotten with the old introductions it's gone from nothing but screaming and biting to cuddling and grooming. I will 100% be using the carrier method for any future rats


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## Kelsbels (Aug 12, 2015)

It's been the method I'm most comfortable with. I'm glad it's working so well for your two boys!


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## Vampiric Conure (Aug 17, 2018)

So glad introductions are going great! I've been watching this thread with great interest


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## Rayrats (Aug 19, 2018)

Good news! They have moved into the big cage today and are doing great. It's a critter nation so they have plenty of room. Samual was even pop-corning in circles around Simon when they explored the space. I'm still in shock no one told me to use this method sooner lmao would have saved me a LOT of time and anguish. All their toys and hammocks are drying and I'll add them slowly. For now they have one hammock and a few boxes with dirty fleece from the hamster cage. They're very happy together and I feel so relieved to have them finally bonded! Simon has turned into such a sweet and tolerant older brother to Samual who's just a whirlwind of energy and curiosity. Thanks to everyone who replied and helped me bond my first rats!! I attached an old picture of them in the first step together, the white one is Simon and the hooded one is Samual


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## Kelsbels (Aug 12, 2015)

hahaha look at them! Two buddies! Good job!


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