# I'm interested in breeding some rats



## Sdaji (Oct 28, 2007)

Hi all,

I'm interested in breeding rats. I have some and they're just so cute, I need to make more of them. I have thee males and three females in together, how long will it take before the girls are pregnant?


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## Hippy (Jul 23, 2007)

Your seriously in a world of hurt right now when someone decides to reply. Not even I can defend you on this because of how inconsiderate your being. Want more rats? Go adopt! Want more? Do get some from the store, don't think you should be the one to make more. They aren't toys, they are living.

I just hope no one else replies to this and your post gets sent down to the bottom and ignored.

Sadly though. You still are going to reacquire help seeing you don't even know the gestation period of a rat. I pray you get some common sense. Go Google rat breeding and raising rat babies.


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## magickat (Oct 19, 2007)

It's probably too late, but please *at least* consider only letting one girl get pregnant. Separate them and don't give them even 2 seconds together because that is literally all the time it takes for them to do 'it.' 
Rats can have up to 12 kittens (that's babies) in one litter. you are looking at possibly *36 babies in less then a month*!! There are many babies out there who need loving homes and sadly so many get eaten. If you take a little time to get educated then you and your ratties will be the happier for it.


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## Kimmiekins (Apr 14, 2007)

I am not going to go off on you (thought I'd like to), but I will suggest you:

1. Read EVERY thread in this forum to find out about the PROPER way to go about breeding
2. Research BEFORE you end up with HUNDREDS babies
3. Remove the females from the males NOW
4. Learn how to sex babies NOW

I'd add: "Call a vet to get 3 e-spays", but somehow, I don't think you'd do that.

Considering each litter can be *as large as 20ish *(*average is 8-12*, something you should have KNOWN - I see many 14ish litters), you could be over-run with rats very shortly. Many rescues have had to go in and remove rats from situations occurring from that same behavior - throwing rats of the same sex together. The babies were not properly sexed, or were allowed to breed at will, and then you've got 100+ rats... Sometimes up to 500 or more.

Please, know what you're doing before you mess with lives. You obviously had no thought or care in the matter. PLEASE use your brain before this gets out of hand.

Also, stock up on cages. *Lots* and lots of cages. And bedding. And food. You'll need it.

And start looking for homes. *Lots* of homes.


After re-reading your post, I kinda hope you're a spammer or someone who thinks it's funny to rile up rat people.


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

you know, this person might be trolling (posting this just to get a rise out of everyone.)

i can't imagine someone truly being this irresponsible so i guess i am trying to imagine an alternative.

i hope they're not going through with this...


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## magickat (Oct 19, 2007)

I think you may be right. Their profile lists "food-chains" and "parthenogenesis" as interests.


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

yup, definately here just to annoy us rat-people. look at their profile, and click on "find all posts." doesn't know the first thing about hairless rats, and talks about "bubble baths" and "extra love" in a somewhat snide manner.

*sigh*

yay for trolls.


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## Sparker (Jun 17, 2007)

Oh my. Oh my. Please do not do this.


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

i hope forensic comes and locks this post...


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## magickat (Oct 19, 2007)

> yup, definately here just to annoy us rat-people. look at their profile, and click on "find all posts." doesn't know the first thing about hairless rats, and talks about "bubble baths" and "extra love" in a somewhat snide manner.


I saw that post earlier today. I was dumbfounded. Really didn't know what to say, but still this could be a real person who desperately needs our help.


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

> I saw that post earlier today. I was dumbfounded. Really didn't know what to say, but still this could be a real person who desperately needs our help.


A real person who needs SOME kind of help, whether it be help learning the basics about rats, or help raising their self-esteem so that they don't feel the need to post irritating topics in a rat forum.


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## Sdaji (Oct 28, 2007)

Wow! I didn't know this would cause such a stir!

I think you may be misunderstanding me, my rats are so beautiful, if you saw just how pretty they were maybe you wouldn't be so apprehensive. I'm sure I'll have no trouble finding homes for them all. Would you like to see pictures of them? Some are hooded, they're all so cute, they have gorgeous little black eyes. They're very friendly and I'm sure they'd have friendly babies.

I don't claim to know everything there is to know about rats, but I'm surprised that some of you would hope that I get no helpful advice because of it! That's quite strange, and rather cruel.

magickat: What's wrong with being interested in parthenogenesis and food chains? I like animals, I find parthenogenesis very interesting (I have some parthenogenetic lizards and insects as well as rats), and every animal eats, so being an animal enthusiast I like to know about it. Have I done something wrong?


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

If your rats were parthenogenic then you wouldn't need advice about their reproductive abilities. Nor would you need more than one rat.


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## Sdaji (Oct 28, 2007)

Obviously my rats are not parthenogenetic! Don't be absurd! If you can't say anything nice then perhaps you shouldn't be abusing a new member who is only here to learn and enjoy rats!


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## BlueSkyy (Sep 27, 2007)

i apologize, your wording was hard to read :?


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## Hippy (Jul 23, 2007)

Sdaji said:


> I think you may be misunderstanding me, my rats are so beautiful, if you saw just how pretty they were maybe you wouldn't be so apprehensive. I'm sure I'll have no trouble finding homes for them all. Would you like to see pictures of them? Some are hooded, they're all so cute, they have gorgeous little black eyes. They're very friendly and I'm sure they'd have friendly babies.
> 
> I don't claim to know everything there is to know about rats, but I'm surprised that some of you would hope that I get no helpful advice because of it! That's quite strange, and rather cruel.


If you dont know everything about rats then why would you breed them? 

You could have the prettiest rats in the world but they can have the most horrid genes that can be passed to their offspring. I'm guessing they were also pet store rats. Pet store rats should never be bred, NEVER. I fight for people who have oops litters, and people who don't believe in E-spays but people who stick three females that they have no idea what the genes are, let alone how long it takes to become pregnant. Then you deserve to be talked at. 

1. Remove the females.
2. Buy cages.
3. Call a vet and makes sure if something happens during birth you can reach the vet.
4. Week before birth, move the females into SEPARATE CAGES, or a tank. NO, dont keep the females together.
5. Feed the females lots of protein.
6. Pray after the gestation period is over, 21-23 days, that the babies all come out healthy, no had births, no dead mommies and no motherless babies.
7. More food more food, more protein, more cage cleaning, more money you have to spend on them.
8. Hopefully by now you have enough homes for EVERY SINGLE BABY. 
9. Sex your babies and make sure you have enough cages so when they hit maturity, 5 weeks I believe, maybe 4 you separate them so you don't have this mess again.
10. Keep your rats separate from now on. Breeders work hard and for years before they even breed one rat. 

Only professional breeders should breed. People who know genes, genetics, know where the rats have come from, have responsible adopters ready ahead of the birth. People breed rats for health, a certain gene or color, and to make a better rat. NO because they have such pretty rats.

THERE is your common info and help on your situation. Want more without being harassed? GOOGLE!

AND being a NEW member doesn't give you special privileges. You are treated here like every member is treated, NEW or OLD. And you want to learn about rats, well this thread should be your first lesson then.


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## Sparker (Jun 17, 2007)

I just want to preface my post with - welcome to the forum and I hope you stay and learn.

Please do not breed your rats. There are already too many.

Please take the females away from the males and then start preparing for a lot of work.

Please.


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## Sdaji (Oct 28, 2007)

Wow, for a hippy you're certainly one high strung person! Mellow out, man!

No one knows _everything_ about rats, but someone has to breed them! Are you saying I am less worthy than someone because I am not yet a professional breeder? Everyone needs to start somewhere, maybe this is my start as a professional, either way, I'm going to give it a go.

I've read on some sites that keeping females together is a good idea, as they can help to feed each others' babies, and they are social animals which enjoy the moral support of their family, so I plan to keep them together.

How can you have a motherless baby? Are you trying to tease me again?

Why are you saying it's a mess? If I breed them again, where is the harm? I am sure I can find good homes for them all, I don't think it will be a problem. The local pet shop said they have lots of people who come in wanting them, and if I can't find a better option they will take as many as I breed. I think I can find good homes myself without the pet shop needing to do it for me anyway.

Obviously I'm going to keep feeding them! Why wouldn't I? They always have as much food as they want to eat.

I'm glad that knowledge of genetics is beneficial, I have a degree with honours in biological science, I majored in genetics. How convenient and fortunate!

So you treat everyone with such contempt, new or old? I hope I don't have to abuse other people in order to be accepted here!


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## Mana (Apr 22, 2007)

I vote troll. Honestly, every post I've read by this person seems crafted to rub people here the wrong way.


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## Sparker (Jun 17, 2007)

As a well educated person, wouldn't you want to be prepared before taking on the responsibility of so many lives?

You do not sound prepared.

Professional breeders do not start by randomly breeding their rats. They research, find a mentor, volunteer...


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## Sdaji (Oct 28, 2007)

You make it sound like breeding rats is rocket science! All I'm doing is producing a few nice rats, it's not like the world is going to end! Why can't you be more supportive? Incidentally, my rats are from a line which has been selectively bred for many generations, mainly for temperament (also for large litter size so I'm told!) I wouldn't dream of buying a rat from a pet shop, as it happens, I am against the selling of animals in shops.

I've worked with animals all my life, I spent over ten years professionally breeding tropical fish for the pet trade (many, many thousands of them), professionally breeding insects in a laboratory and privately for the pet trade, and currently I breed and clone lizards, again for the pet trade. I'm not a stranger to taking responsibility for many lives, I'm probably a lot more prepared than you think.

Why is everyone up on high horses around here? I have some nice rats and I want to breed them, is that a crime? Why am I met with hostility when all I've done is come here to seek advice?

Mana: why do you believe me to be a troll? Do you believe I am a monster who lives under a bridge, eating the occassional unsuspecting child or billy goat? Do you not believe that I actually do have some lovely rats which I am planning to breed? I will post pictures of them if you like, if I prove that I genuinely have some gorgeous, darling little rats, will you then give me advice?


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## Hippy (Jul 23, 2007)

Sdaji said:


> Wow, for a hippy you're certainly one high strung person! Mellow out, man!
> 
> ------------HA. I have no comment to that.
> 
> ...


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## Hippy (Jul 23, 2007)

Sdaji - You just went against what you said.
You said you'll give the babies to a pet store, but then you said your against it?

Fish are not rats. You didn't even know how long it takes for a female to become pregnant and on another board you were confused about this persons hairless rat. So much for you knowing genes.


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## Sparker (Jun 17, 2007)

Sdaji said:


> The local pet shop said they have lots of people who come in wanting them, and if I can't find a better option they will take as many as I breed.





Sdaji said:


> I wouldn't dream of buying a rat from a pet shop, as it happens, I am against the selling of animals in shops.


???


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## Sdaji (Oct 28, 2007)

Hippy said:


> ------------Yes. You are less worthy, right now you are. Your being cruel to your pets. From all the reasons Ive said above. You can easily have every female die during birth. Give it a go.. What if you fail? What if all of them die? What if the babies get sick?


How am I being cruel? Because I'm allowing them to reproduce? Are you saying I am wrong unless I deny my rats their right to have babies of their own? Humans can die during birth too, is a woman cruel if she decides to have a baby?

What if they die? What if they get sick? What if the house burns down? What if a burglar trips over the cage and squashes them? What if what if what if? Gee! What if all goes well and I end up with happy, healthy, lovely babies? If we avoided doing anything which carried risk, we'd never get out of bed in the morning.



> --------------THREE females, with about 12 babies each, in one cage... Thats 3 adult females trying to feed their babies and have no tress in order to do so. And 36 little babies getting bigger every day. Sure, some females who have ONE litter can be with another female who DOESN"T have babies can maybe make it but three pregnant mothers, one mother will go to another nest, steal their baby thinking its theirs then you start out with a tug of war over a baby, and their teeth can hurt the baby and then you have a baby with teeth holes in it... and maybe worse. Your only going to stress the females out even more.


The guy I got my rats from was breeding them in groups, they seemed fine. I'm sure if he had trouble with them he wouldn't be doing it. He said he'd been working on these ones for a few years (probably at least five generations). They're all really friendly, he said he'd never breed from a rat which would bite him or was unfriendly.



> -------------A motherless baby. THE MOTHER DIES and the BABY has no mother, THUS its an orphan, a creature that you made, that you are going to have to take care of.


Again, what if what if what if. What if I crash my car? What if I get food poisoning? What if I trip and break my neck when I shower? Eek! Run away! Inescapable doom and gloom at every turn!

So tell me, why do you not have these ideas about your 'professional' breeders? Are they immune to such problems?



> ----------You can never be sure if you have homes. Start looking right now. Local pet stores. Breeders would not sell to a petstore, because the people ALWAYS wanting them, are people who are most likely trying to feed their snakes.


Okay, now, snakes are obviously a touchy topic and we don't want to get into it (no one needs to hear any horror stories), but I am curious... where do snake keepers get their rats from if not from rat breeders? Some come from animal houses and labs, although the animal houses I've worked at (no, I wasn't working with rodents) had rules preventing the surplus from being used as feed for other animals - partly because some of them were transgenic/knockout animals and it was illegal for them to be released for any purpose. Obviously, we don't want to discuss the things which eat rodents.



> ------------Yes, but are you going to feed them the right food? Pet store food wont give them the extra nutrients they need.


Why does anyone use pet shop food? It's expensive and apparently not even good for them. I use the laboratory feed pellets, they're designed to be a complete diet for all rats (and mice) which have been weaned. I read up about their diets and spent time finding feed suppliers before obtaining my rats.



> --------Yeah, but do you know YOUR RATS genes. Parents, parents before that.


I saw the parents and granparents of mine, and the guy who I got them from said he'd had them for at least a couple of generations before them. They're all very friendly.



> -------- Ive been here a while, and you know, your the first person here I had to be so blunt with. Or, High strung. People on this site are a lot worse then me.


What did I do which was so offensive? You don't like the idea of anyone who isn't a professional breeding rats, okay, that's your philosophy, I don't share it, does that mean you need to be nasty? All I'm doing is seeking advice.


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## Sdaji (Oct 28, 2007)

Fair comment, about the pet shops. While I don't think they should be there and I certainly would never buy anything from one (not even supplies), the pet shop is there as a last resort if need be. If I thought there was any real chance I was going to need to use the shop as a way of finding homes for the babies, I wouldn't be breeding the rats. I was just pointing out that as it happens, I do have an emergency outlet for the babies. I already have quite a few people wanting babies from my rats, and the girls probably aren't even pregnant yet.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

seeing that we have such an expert on genetics among us

do you have a pedigree for these 6 rats? 

Probably not & even if you did, you wrecked it by tossing multiple rats together in order to allow indiscriminate breeding. You have no idea who fathered which litter & if you allow all 3 litters to be raised together you won't have a clue who is mom to who. This in turn will create more mystery rats into the line & you'll never know who will produce what.

At this point all you have are rats, no different than any other rat. If the practice of the person you got these 6 from has been the same then they have nothing more than rats. Not that this is a bad thing just nothing special other than being sweet little furries that could make great little pets. When you boil it all down I would say that 90% of us on this board have just rats but less than 2% of us would ever consider letting them go at it in order to make more. Just rats are just like all the other great little furries sitting in the glass tanks waiting to be sold as snake food. Rats are rats... the only real difference is in the care that is established in proper selective breeding tactics that are used in order to produce a healthy line with fewer health related issues commonly found in our just rats.

The first thing any professional will tell you about breeding the fancy pet rats is that #1, it's a money pit, you will not make a profit from it. The #2 thing a professional breeder is going to tell you is that your breeding stock needs to have a verified history of several generations & you must be very selective as to who is bred with whom, at what age & how often. You will have to track these offspring for as long as possible & note all health related happenings in their life so that you can determine whether the line should be continued or not. The number #3 thing is have deep pockets because you never know when something will go wrong & when it does go wrong is ain't cheap!

You mentioned having hoodeds. The hooded are the most commonly found marks on rats along with the berkshires ( I think PEWs rank in their somewhere but not sure, this is coming off the top of my head) The latest rage in the rat world isn't the breeding of hoodeds unless you are actually able to produced the desired hooded. The hooded rats have very specific desired striation. Most hoodeds are actually considered mismarked & very poor examples of what is the desired patterning is to look like. The big rage I have been reading about has been about the Siamese & Dalmatian lines. Aside from coat markings I have been reading a lot about the dwarf lines & the harley lines (long fur). People are still working on breeding the Megacolon out of the face mark lines & others work real hard to create the perfect BEWs (black eyed whites) again there is a big risk for Megacolon in the high whites.

The final note is as the others have mentioned, there are already so many rats out there. Have you searched your area for selective breeders or rescues? If you flood the area with a bunch of rats that have simply been left to take natures course then you are essentially dooming all the rats that are in local shelters to not finding homes. The breeders with the well documented lines are going to have fewer homes to place their babies with & if they have no homes they will halt their breeding practices & this results in well established lines ending with that generation (years of hard work & dedication comes to a screeching halt)

Pet shops are real good about taking in babies when someone finds themselves overwhelmed with numbers that result from mixing sexes. They way many of them see it, free stock or giving someone 25 cents to a$1.00 store credit toward store purchases... big deal... sell them as a pet or sell them as food, either way, they make a profit. The mark up in retail stores is huge. Something they sell for a dollar may have only cost them 10 to 25 cents... they just netted 75 cents & they still have the rat to sell which will net them another 3 to 10 bucks so long as it doesn't eat much while its with them. 

The final note on this... all of these rats you dump at the pets stores...? Well the kid comes in, Mommy buy me a rat. Mom thinks, heck its cheaper than a puppy... cracks open her wallet & plops $20 on the counter for a 3 dollar rat & a cheap cage that is way to small & a bag of improper hamster food (why not, its cheap & its just a rat)

The novelty wears off after a week or month or whatever. The rat either comes back to the pet store where it will most definitely have lost its baby cuteness factor & its tossed into the med to large feeder tank... again, more profit. Or worse, the rat is dumped off at the already crowded shelter that was unable to find homes for their rats because so many people are out there breeding their cute rats.


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## Sdaji (Oct 28, 2007)

Wow! If nothing else, your passion certainly impresses me!

...I'm off to make rat babies now, I'll post pictures of the little cuties when they're born. They manage to breed in the wild, I'm sure that together with their instincts I'll figure it out... I'm clearly not going to get much assistance around here!


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## DFW_Rat_Luvr (Aug 29, 2007)

Good lord.
you dont listen.
and you clearly dont care.

you obviously just want to start something and make the people that DO care around here, just feel terrible....otherwise, you wouldnt have bothered making that last post. Or probably, even the first.


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

Just note I didn't tell you not to do this... you came on here talking about your interest to do this... who am I to tell you what to do or not do. I can only strongly suggest you reconsider doing this until you are more informed, more prepared & much better educated on at least the basics.

Frankly I don't care what you do because I know that I have no say in your choices nor any control on anyone's choices, except my own. That is a mark of maturity. All I can hope for is that you won't be a twit by coming on here creating drama... that is the mark of immaturity. And before you get yourself in a bunch, no I am not calling you an immature twit. Well, not yet anyway <wink> LOL

I hope all goes well with what you are doing... for the sake of the rats because there is a host of things that can go wrong... fatally wrong. The most experienced, well established breeders out there can tell you horror stories about the things that have gone wrong. I won't go into graphic details on a public board. I can tell you about the things that have gone wrong in my personal experience of having pregnant females & what happened to the litters that I have fostered. 

If you would like some links to boards that are more supportive to what you are doing I would be happy to provide you with some links. I'm not saying they will agree with your indiscriminate breeding practice but they will at least be supportive of the fact that you have rats you are breeding. 

This board is not supportive of breeding & because of this it would be respectful to honor this premise & take the discussion of breeding to places where it is openly discussed. To remain here & force your decisions upon a whole community that pretty much doesn't support purposeful breeding is going to land you that honorary title of immature twit. So what say you? You wanna have productive conversations or do you want to create drama?

Please feel free to PM me & I will give you the link of at least one board I know of. I just happen to have it bookmarked because of of a sub-board that is dedicated to genetics. Not an easy read unless you have a firm grasp on constructing & reading Punnett Squares as well as all of the terminology. The other boards have a wealth of knowledge on the do's, don'ts & oh-no's of rodent breeding.


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## Sdaji (Oct 28, 2007)

I didn't come here to cause trouble, but it seems that the mention of intentional breeding is enough to draw the hostilities of this site's members. I think you all need to understand that there are people out there who have philosophies which are different from your own, and that it's not necessary to be aggressive towards them... you'll also find that many people will react to hostility with hostility of their own.

You may or may not care about the feelings of people, but leaping straight into a mob attack can be extremely distressing for some people, especially the type of person who is is likely to have affection for a small furry animal. Just in case any of you are worried, I am not sitting here with hurt feelings, to be honest I've found your attacks to be some of the most amusing material I've read for weeks! 

A1A: I'm quite familiar with punnet squares and I'm a keen geneticist. I'd be quite interested to receive the links you refer to, please send me a PM, thanks


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## A1APassion (Jul 29, 2007)

I really have not seen attacks.

You are right


> there are people out there who have philosophies which are different from your own, and that it's not necessary to be aggressive towards them


 however no one has been aggressive. Can you at least concede that by your own words, you are the one that has walked in the midst of a community that is predominately not in favor of the philosophy that you adhere to thus placing you in a position where you should consider "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" or get the frack out of Rome before the torches get too close?

Think about it.  

I draw no conclusions nor pass any judgments. I am fair & impartial to the point where I've played the devil's advocate for the sake of promoting stimulating conversation that would actually allow people to explore thoughts & happenings they never once considered. You'd think this would be a good thing right? 

HA! 

Well, thats not a story I wish to share in this particular environment. 

I'll pull up that link. I have not revisited that board in a couple months but when I was last there I found some really great threads that you may find interesting.

Let me close with one statement before wrong conclusions are taken. I am not a breeder, nor do I plan to ever breed. I come from an age before video games & cable TV... I was a science geek kid that grew up on a small farm. I was fascinated by genetics as a kid & to this day I find the technical journals & scientific studies that are published to be an entertaining read.

Ok, I'm off to watch Star Trek OS Monday Marathon on G4 TV

Yup, I'm a geek but I don't live in my Momma's basement... LOL


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## Forensic (Apr 12, 2007)

All right, all right, that's quite enough. Sdaji apparently isn't and will not listen so why bother continuing this mess?


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