# Marten Rats



## Pandorascaisse

...So I just discovered that this variety was a thing! It looks so interesting... I'm wondering, are they exclusively a UK thing, or are there breeders of this variety in the US?

For those of you who have never seen one (note: these pictures are not mine)

















I think this is an absolutely gorgeous variety! They look like little porcupines... I wish I'd known they existed before!


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## sarah424

Pretty cute! Never heard of the before either!


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## Kitterpuss

I've heard of these. There's a breeder close to me in Scotland who specialises in martens I think.


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## Lita

Is it just the color/eye color combo? Or is their fur diffrent to? Really pretty rat, love eyes that color.


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## Pandorascaisse

I think their fur is the same, Lita, it's just the eye/color combo, but boy, it's still stunning! I'd love to see a line that's been bred for richer blacks.


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## Lita

Very stunning! His eyes look like gems or glass beads! And the coat color is such a good contrast!


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## Isamurat

The gene originally came from europe and was called Red Eyed Devils, before toyah (from Hawthorn stud up in glasgow) imported them a few years back. She renamed them martin as she didnt like the conotations of red eyed devils (plus it gets confusing with us having red eyed dilute gene too). Theres now quite a few of them around the country and you see them at most shows, though they are only in new varieties at the moment (i expect that to change soon and move up to guide standard as its becoming an established variety). I actually prefer the agouti version, which is called Silver Agouti, especially in black eyes. Its a stunning ticked grey colour and especially nice in the flesh.

For anyone interested in the genetics from whats been looked into so far these seem to be on the C locus, like siamese and albino. You can also get pointed varients and them in a varitey of tones, though black/agouti based are the most common, i have seen several russian blue martins/ SA's.


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## Kitterpuss

I would love a couple of rats from Hawthorns some day. I see shes taking a break from breeding for a while. I'm keeping my fingers crossed she might be active again next year.


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## kksrats

I really envy all of you overseas, people really seem to take it seriously over there. I wish the states would ban live feeding.


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## Kitterpuss

I don't doub lives feeding happens here too out of sight, but I'm so glad I don't have to see feeder bins whenever I go in a pet shop. I'd end up with a hoard of rats!


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## CatsRatsVeggies

My first original 3 rats came from a secret UK back room feeder bin. Me and Ria called the RSPCA, the rats all got homed out to fosters and the shops closed now. I'm not sure on other cities but we're pretty hot on any abuse in pet shops in the Midlands! I purposely visit new ones (going to a new one after work tonight actually!) to check conditions and flag it up with them to give them chance to change it. Some listen, some don't. Thats when I call the RSPCA. I don't deal with animal abuse at all. I'm just grateful we don't have a big feeder bin problem.. And *@Kitterpuss*, I call pet shops AHEAD to see if they have rats otherwise I know I will be coming home with new buddies... Although.. Ria did ask the other day where I would put another SRS  The plans working!


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## kksrats

The fact that it's just openly available here is what makes it a problem. And yeah...I've had my feeder bin hoards in the past >.< Now I've just got my sweet little Odin from the bin, though Freyja and Loki came from a slightly more decent pet store. My husband went with me to get mealworms for the scale babies the other day and we ventured into the rat room of course. I keep seeing blue agoutis popping up at that store every now and then and it's soooooo hard not to take one home.


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## Pandorascaisse

This is all really cool (and sad, in the case of the above), but I don't think LF is allowed outside of rants and raves (though I agree with you all 100%, I'd hate to lose a thread!)

Meanwhile, so, the "marten" variety has nothing to do with the black coat and red eyes? Can you breed any variety (except albino and siamese, since they're on the C locus too) into it? If so, do you think the standard will start to include any sort of color range? I'm not a fan of agouti so if it comes down to it I would hope gray/black would be the range... 

It's a recessive gene, isn't it? So, let's say someone in America just _happened _to import two studs... 
Quick someone get like $2,000 for the Martens in America fund.


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## Kitterpuss

Whats LF? I'm rubbish with abbreviations...


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## Jaguar

LF = live feeding 

Keep on topic please!


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## Kitterpuss

Ach I keep forgetting about staying on topic. Conversation is such an organic thing its easy to drift without really realising. 

Anyway.... I 'liked' Toyahs Facebook page for her rats a while back. The Martens breed really is beautiful. She had a gorgeous litter back in August that she posted photos of - so cute! 

https://www.facebook.com/hawthornra...2111279804652/920455401303566/?type=1&theater


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## Pandorascaisse

Ah, so cute! Is there something different between Marten and red colored eyes? Marten seems to be a lot richer, somehow, though it might just be because these are all professional pictures I'm seeing of them x3


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## Kitterpuss

Here's a description of the breed standard: http://ratvarieties.com/type/marten/


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## Pandorascaisse

I don't understand how agouti/"rew"-type rats can be considered martens, then. I'm really confused because it says white is a fault, and it also says any brown hues (which agouti would be) is also a fault.


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## MeinTora

I live in southern Louisiana, and my breeder is having these imported later this year. I dunno if I'll be getting any, I try to stay away from her imported lines for at least the first year...I prefer to stick to her lines that I know what to expect/have studied. Especially after she ended a very young imported line for aggression/shotty health. Anyways...they are beautiful! Their eyes remind me of my fawn girl,.


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## darkiss4428

my bf has a satin mouse with this eye/color combo


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## Isamurat

Pandorascaisse said:


> I don't understand how agouti/"rew"-type rats can be considered martens, then. I'm really confused because it says white is a fault, and it also says any brown hues (which agouti would be) is also a fault.


Im no expert on the Martin gene (or especially good on C locus in general) as its not one i breed myself or especially want to, but i am good friends with toyah from Hawthorne and Stacey from Honeduke who both work with it. toyah probably knows it better than anyone and has attempted to explain the genetics to me once, so i will give it a go lol.

The martin gene (as opposed to a Martin variety rat) lives on the C locus, the same place that you find siamese, himi and albino. The gene acts to fade eyes to red (like the siamese gene does) and fade the coat colour, so the black tone is darker grey with pale areas around the nose and eyes. It fades away all red and yellow tones completely where they are present. When you apply this gene on top of a standard black rat you get a Marten, like in the photos. If you apply it on top of an agouti rat you get a Silver agouti, this girl here is a good example http://hawthorn.ratvarieties.com/?attachment_id=35 . Technically she is a bit browner than ideal but you get the idea. You should only get the black ticking you would get in a normal agouti rat, the brown and cream tones having been replaced by white. Interestingly both varieties seem to fade as the rats age

When you add the gene that makes black eyed siamese to the martin varieties you get a balck eyed version. This gives a particularly striking look in the Silver agouti variant and is my martin type rat. This photo might work, though its on facebook, shes a dumbo lady too https://www.facebook.com/hawthornra...0.1414499108./920455137970259/?type=3&theater

MeinTora - depending where your breeder is importing the rats from and wether she outcrosses the rats i've met over here seem pretty sound universally, i wouldnt say they are amazing in terms or temprement or health but they are a pretty good standard to start from. It does depend on what country they are coming from, theres been a fair bit of work put into the UK martins


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## Rat Daddy

It's particularly interesting that when I was in Europe I noticed that folks had relatively fewer interests or hobbies than Americans but they invested more time in them and developed a greater expertise. 

I sometimes have to wonder what causes this difference. Is it the economic fad driven model of our society and the rat trade or is there something about our collective personality that keeps us from taking on serious long term projects like refining a certain strain of rat over the course of many generations?

I've met Europeans that spent half their lives refining a certain species of fish or rather a color morph of a single strain of a single species of fish, whereas the average american hobbiest keeps an aquarium stocked with the latest offerings of whatever their pet shop carries. 

I don't intend so subvert this thread into a discussion on breeding rats, just to repeat an interesting observation that my grandfather who was born in Germany in the 1800's made about what he saw when he was in the US when I was a kid. He asked me how I ever intended to be really good at anything when I had so many interests. Now when I read about UK breeders that are working with certain species and I compare the average american pet owner that has 3 or more varieties of pet at any given time, I do have to wonder once again if there is some disorder that makes Americans a culture of dabblers rather than experts.


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## mghemm437

My breeder just added Martens to her lines in December 2015 (please excuse any typos, my girls keep running across my keyboard haha). I currently have 3 babies from her marten breedings: a red-eyed dumbo blue variegated marten, a black eyed marten (who I think is also a very poor rex), and a black self who didnt exhibit any of the marten traits. I love the coloring and eye combo, they are stunning! There are breeders in the USA, but many of their lines will probably be newer and not fully developed.


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## moonkissed

mghemm437 said:


> My breeder just added Martens to her lines in December 2015 (please excuse any typos, my girls keep running across my keyboard haha). I currently have 3 babies from her marten breedings: a red-eyed dumbo blue variegated marten, a black eyed marten (who I think is also a very poor rex), and a black self who didnt exhibit any of the marten traits. I love the coloring and eye combo, they are stunning! There are breeders in the USA, but many of their lines will probably be newer and not fully developed.


This thread is a bit old. It seems like quite a few breeders have Martens these days. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/marten.rats/ is a good source for finding breeders in the US.

I am personally not a huge fan of the traditional dark with red eyes martens. Though I have seen one blue girl that was lovely. 
I think I'd prefer the black eyed martens even though I adore red eyes in rats lol


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