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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

Adelaide, my black hooded, isn't acting right. She was fine this morning but when I got home today she just wasn't herself. She's all puffed up, has some labored breathing and is actually been sitting still and letting me pet her. I gave her and Tilly a cap full of my tea and she didn't even fight tilly over it. I'm very worried that its her time. I really don't feel that a vet is needed as she is 2 years old now. But I really hope she does pull through at least until tomorrow night. I dont want to have to deal with a dying baby right before work at 6 am. The babies still have one week left of QT. But I suppose its a good thing I went ahead and got them when I did as I was afraid of this happening and one of my oldest two being left alone. Anyway, I just needed to get it off my chest.


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

I just think its crazy hw fast they go down hill. She was absolutely fine this morning. My first rat ony lived to be about 20 months  sorry for typos, holding addie in one handf and typinng with the other lol


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

hshelton said:


> I really don't feel that a vet is needed as she is 2 years old now.


A vet _is_ needed. Yes, the average age for a rat to live is 2 years - but that doesn't mean they can't live longer. My Spike just died last week at the age of 3.... he wouldn't have made it very much longer than 2 years if if he didn't have 3 surgeries for tumour removals, medication for respiratory infections, 5 abscesses treated, teeth trims at the vets approx every 2 weeks due to malocclusion...

He lived a little over a year from his first surgery... another year is a longgggg time in rattie years.


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## Alexc844 (Sep 8, 2008)

Rats can live as old as 4. I'd say call a vet. It could be her time, or she could have a bug. 
Higgins is about two. Still going strong. I am determined that he will live to be 4


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

I know they can live longer than two. I'm just saying for her to get that bad so quick, showing no signs of anything what so ever, I really dont feel like she needs to see a vet. I've had many animals in my life and I dont know about you guys, but its quite easy to tell how your animals doing. While I love her to death, I dont think its humane to keep her going if shes going to only get better for a week and then just die anyway, which is exactly what happened with my last rat. But I sat down with her last night and made her some oatmeal and she ate some in between sleeping. She seems like shes doing about the same this morning, but I will have to see when I get home.


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## Alexc844 (Sep 8, 2008)

Rats will often hide their symptoms until they literally can't anymore. It's a survival technique. So, chances are, she hasn't been feeling well for a while.


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

I know, I wish they didn't do that though, it makes it kind of tough to get them help they need. But on another note, she seems to be feeling a little better this morning. I'm about to go get her some baby food and see if she'll eat for me. I'm going to try to get one of my parents to take her to the vet for me if she starts doing a little better.


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## Alexc844 (Sep 8, 2008)

I agree. It's so hard to help them when you can't tell if they are sick. SO glad she seems to be doing better! Keep us posted. I'll keep her in my thoughts


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## zoe9 (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm sorry but I don't understand your reasoning that if Adelaide ‘starts doing a little better' you'll take her to the vet.

If she's unwell and suffering _now_ she needs a vet _now_.

From the symptoms described she could have a respiratory infection which can be easily treated by a few weeks on antibiotics. If this is the case it makes no sense to wait for her to improve before getting help because respiratory infections don't get better without treatment, they get worse.

So then what? Her breathing gets more laboured as the infection progresses till she's left gasping for air and endures a potentially drawn-out and frightening death?

I'm not trying to be harsh but it seems to me you're waiting for her to suddenly drop dead of 'old age' but that rarely happens. She doesn't sound to me like an old rat about to naturally die, she sounds like a sick rat that needs help.

Please reconsider your stance and have a vet see her. You mentioned earlier you didn't think it was 'humane' to keep her going only to have her die a week later, but how is it humane to withhold treatment because she's 'old' and you don't know how much longer she might have? Surely she deserves the chance to find out whether this can be treated or not, and if the latter humanely put to sleep by the vet rather than dying slowly at home in a distressed state.


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

I wasnt with holding treatment just because shes old. I know all of my animals very well, as do most people who actually care for them. I can tell the difference between sick and dying. She's had a respiratory infection before, as all of my rats have, and this is just not the same. In my experience, rats don't suddenly develop infections and get that bad that quick. There was absolutely no symptoms what so ever. None of my other rats are sick. Her sister isn't showing any signs of anything either. And to be honesty, I just dont have the money to spend to take her to a vet if I dont think shes going to make it. But if I honestly believed she needed to go, I would find a way to take her. Also, as I have said in another post, we dont have any vets around here that deal with small animals other than Banfield (run by petsmart) and I haven't had any good experiences with them.


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

Like I said, she is doing much better since I got her some baby food and have been hand feeding her. So I will see how she's doing in the morning and decide where to go as for a vet. It really sucks that the only exotic vet in my city went out of business a few years ago. You'd think that being one of the larger cities in virginia, we would have a few more selections of vets.


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## littlematchstick (Apr 12, 2009)

I have to agree with everyone here..I think a vet is needed. If this was something immediatley damaging..I imagine she would have died by now..one of my girls developed fast pneumonia..she died 3 hours after I noticed symptoms. If she is still holding on and fighting..I think you should help her fight. If you just *wait and see*..she probably will die eventually..But I really don't think she is beyond help...but if you let it go much longer...she will be soon..please consider a vet visit..even if its to help her along over the bridge if you don't want to try antibiotics..


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

I am going to take her to a vet. Like I said though, I cant find one around here that I trust. I work at a dog kennel, so I've heard numerous different things from different people about each one. And I still have to work out the money problem. Most of the vets here wont do a payment plan. But if all else fails, I'll take her to the woman that runs the wildlife rescue I volunteer at. She worked at an emergency vet for years and a few people who volunteer there might have some experience with it. But I'm pretty sure she has some antibiotics as they do preform surgerys there on animals all the time.


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

Even if you don't have an experienced vet with rats nearby, pop on www.ratguide.com and print some information on ailments and dosages for the vets from the health and medication sections of the website. If you don't have access to a printer, write down the links and take them with you for the vet to access while you're there.

Some that may be useful and you could also have a look around ratguide yourself to see if any other symptoms match certain ailments.

*Ailments:*
_Mycoplasmosis: _http://ratguide.com/health/bacteria/mycoplasma_mycoplasmosis.php
_Pneumonia:_ http://ratguide.com/health/lower_respiratory/pneumonia.php
_Cardiomyopathy_: http://ratguide.com/health/cardiovascular/cardiomyopathy.php
_Congestive heart failure:_ http://ratguide.com/health/cardiovascular/congestive_heart_failure.php

You could then look at the suggested treatment sections for the above and take in more information about the suggested medication/s that can be found in the medication section.


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

It sounds more like congestive heart failure to me. But we have an appointment a little later so we'll see then.


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

So I finally found an amazing vet. She looked addie over and said she has pneumonia. She gave me a ton of different options as to what I wanted to do with her. I decided to try to see if any of the medications would work and if not we talked about having her put to sleep. Luckily they dont do heart sticks there, they use anesthesia so if I absolutely have to, I will put her down. But hopefully the meds start to kick in soon. They said she only weighed 322 grams so they couldnt do any injectable antibiotics.


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

The vet also said she felt a mass but she wasnt sure if it was just her kidney or a tumor


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

What medication is she on then? How long for etc?


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

metacam, baytril and furosemide and shes on them for 4 days. If she gets better then she said to come back and get more on friday when I get paid.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

4 days is a ridiculously short time to treat a tiny chest infection, let alone pneumonia. You are looking at weeks of treatment, not days.

If it is pneumonia, baytril alone may not cut it. I would highly suggest taking this back to see her;

http://ratguide.com/health/lower_respiratory/pneumonia.php


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

As i said above, if she shows any improvement in the next couple of days, were going back to the vet.


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

ohh and does anyone know a way that I can get her to eat, I've been feeding her baby food but she hasnt eaten anything today, no matter how I try to feed her. Even when I tried a suringe it just dripped out of her mouth.


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## ration1802 (Sep 25, 2007)

It should be if she shows *no* improvement then she should go back to the vets. I assume that will also be the case?

I personally find once they become completely lethargic and refuse to eat it's a sign that they're almost ready to go. Don't force her if she's not swallowing what you're giving her, just try to keep her hydrated (you could mix babyfood and water in a 50/50 mix if you wanted) and hope the medication does it's job soon.


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

Thank you guys but she got much, much worse last night and she passed away. She just got so weak. I just talked to the vet so she was thinking that the mass she found was cancer. I tried to hold her through it but she wasnt having any part of it. She kept trying to bite me but I know she just wasn't feeling well.


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## KathyM (Mar 31, 2010)

Pneumonia can kill rats very quickly, which is why it is so important to get them to a vet as soon as the symptoms start. The vet isn't psychic and can't diagnose cancer by just guessing, she most likely died of fluid in her lungs. RIP litle one


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## LisaLQ (Oct 14, 2007)

That is so sad, pneumonia is an awful illness that causes immense suffering (they literally drown in their own fluids), so to leave her so long and then only give her a couple of days treatment, I would avoid that "great vet" in future.

And rats of 300g can have a baytril injection, and one might literally have saved her, depending on how quickly you took her to the vet.

We had a 9 week old rescue boy go from pneumonia in a matter of hours, so for her to soldier on meant she was strong and could have beaten it.


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

We didnt want to put her through the stress of having an injection. Like I said, she also found a lump near or on her kidney. She thought it was probably a tumor but could have possibly been the kidney itself. I really didnt have the money to take her to the vet right away as Ive also said. It took 2 days to get money together( I'm 19, full time student, part time job, volunteer at the wildlife rescue 6 hours a week, i am an EMT and volunteer 12 hours a week) I didnt want to take her to the vet because I believed she was going to die. None of my other rats were showing any symptoms of anything so I didnt believe she had anything of the sort. It came on VERY suddenly. She had no symptoms at all, not even the slighest bit of sneezing or porphyrin. Regardless of what anyone else may think, as everyone seems to think they know everything about my rat, I know I did what was right for her and tried to make her comfortable in her last few days.


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## KathyM (Mar 31, 2010)

Perhaps if you cannot provide veterinary care for them when it is needed, it might be time to have a rethink over whether rats are for you. I'm very sorry for your loss.


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

I just had to have my car fix a few days before, her being sick was VERY unexpected.


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## KathyM (Mar 31, 2010)

You didn't say that though, you said you couldn't provide immediate veterinary care for many other reasons but that.


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

I realize that now lol sorry. But I'm sure everyone will be happy to know my other girls are going to be checked out later this week just to be sure that they are all illness-free.


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## KathyM (Mar 31, 2010)

Given you have had one rat die and you were posting nearly a week ago that your babies have RI, I would've hoped you had already taken them. Perhaps a rescue nearby could take them off you and get them prompt care?


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

The babies have been to the vet and it was just the new home sneezes, I just want to make sure none of them got pneumonia. I haven't heard a single sneeze out of any of them for about a week and half.


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## LisaLQ (Oct 14, 2007)

It's highly possible that you had some sort of virus, for one to go so quickly of pneumonia and presumably new babies to have respiratory symptoms. SDAV is doing the rounds still, not all rats will die from it.

http://www.nfrs.org/sdav.html

If you dont have money immediately available, presumably you are entitled to PDSA care. In future, as soon as your rat is ill take it to the vets, you're not a qualified vet and that is what they are there for. If you cant afford it, as Kathy said it might be worth rethinking whether now is the time for you to have pets.

Edited to add: I would do an 8 week quarantine to be safe - no rats in or out, no shows, no rat owning visitors etc.


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

None of my friends have rats, they don't go anywhere and they are strictly pets. I'm not going to get rid of them regardless of what anyone says. I did have money put back for vet visits but I had to have my car fixed and my babies had to go to the vet last week also. I dont want to argue with anyone but I'm really tired of everyone thinking they know whats best for me and my rats.


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## KathyM (Mar 31, 2010)

hshelton said:


> The babies have been to the vet and it was just the new home sneezes, I just want to make sure none of them got pneumonia. I haven't heard a single sneeze out of any of them for about a week and half.


OK wishing you the best of luck with them. I don't know if it will help, but sometimes when money is tight here, I plan ahead by storing a little here and there (I gave up smoking two years ago for example) and put it in a little tin. I don't know what the situation is like in the States for insurance, but over here you can't get pet insurance for little pets, so this was my way of ensuring I had a little bit aside for the emergencies. It doesn't always work well when you have to break into it for something else, but it might help.


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## Stace87 (Jun 24, 2008)

LisaLQ said:


> It's highly possible that you had some sort of virus, for one to go so quickly of pneumonia and presumably new babies to have respiratory symptoms. SDAV is doing the rounds still, not all rats will die from it.
> 
> http://www.nfrs.org/sdav.html
> 
> If you dont have money immediately available, presumably you are entitled to PDSA care.


The OP is in the USA (not sure if you realised). SDAV was pretty bad here in the UK not so long ago wasn't it. I remember reading many cases on fancy rats forum. I don't think there is free vet care easily available over there and even here with the PDSA you need to be in receipt of either Council Tax benefit or Housing benefit; while also being within a certain catchment area of a PetAid Hospital. I'm carrying out a work placement with the PDSA next month for 5 weeks


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## LisaLQ (Oct 14, 2007)

I would agree if she had taken the rat the same day it got ill. But IMO - the car should have come second to the rats vet treatment.

Hey ho - nothing that can be done now - wishing you luck with your others and hope your financial situation improves. Not everyone is loaded (I hear ya on that), but sometimes we have to make sacrafices. I dont have a car because I cant afford to run one. But my rats will see a vet the same day - if I dont have it, I'll find it - or I'll make a payment arrangement with the vet. But I wont wait because of money.


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## hshelton (Feb 23, 2010)

My car was fixed before she showed any signs of any illness or she would have been first priority. The vet really was great. She knew that the pneumonia was pretty bad. Its also why she gave us metacam. We didnt want to stress her out to bad and as you all know, pneumonia is very hard to treat and even when its caught very early a lot of rats dont make it through it. It truly is a learning experience and I would never be prepared for anything like this happening had it not. But Tilly does seem to be doing okay, its so sad seeing her all alone. Ive had her out playing most of the day when I've been home. Hopefully all three of them will get the all clear from the vet and will be able to move in together soon.


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