# bad news...



## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

well Roxy no longer cares about her pups... i couldnt sleep and went in and checked on them and she hadnt returned to them in 3 hours, they were ice cold and hardly moving... well i did a search online and found a website and this is what i read- that somehow when she buried her pups a few hours after birth something clicked and she didnt consider them hers anymore, i guess it can be a common problem in rats, what this breeder said to do is to place her in a very small critter carrier which forces her to sit on her babies allowing them to eat and maybe causing the doe to act motherly and take care of them... at least they are getting the milk they need and i have them on a low set heating pad, i havent lost a pup yet but i will have to become the full time mother so i need to learn about how to make them potty ect, im really sad and feel as if i did something wrong to Roxy to cause this odd behavior... i will be getting fresh KHR or powdered kitten formula and a dropper to supplement their diet more just incase, but for right now i will put roxy in the small container at night to keep the babies warm and fed and hopefully she takes them back, then during the day i will keep them on a electric blanket set at 1 or 2, ill be watching to make sure it doesnt get hot and ill be trying to help them potty ect. if anyone has any other ideas or something i may have forgotten please let me know, and keep Roxy in your heart and prayers so she will take her ratlings back :-(


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## katkandy (Mar 3, 2012)

maybe it is like the equivalent of post natal (partum) depression. What a downer...I think you're doing the right thing by literally forcing Roxy to sit on them...I can't think what else you could do. It does sound really odd tho, doesn't it? I mean, you'd think all of her natural insincts would just kick right on in...but they havn't. Good luck Iheartroxyrat. Do what you have to do and don't give up.


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

thanks! yes i totally agree! she acts terrified of them! i think maybe she did experience pain while birthing and maybe sees the pups as the cause of it? when i had got up this morning five of the angels had passed on :-( im not sure if it was natural causes or if they become too cold or lack of care and milk, but having less pups gives the ones that survived a better chance... it still was so sad :-( i called my vet to see if i was on the right track and the vet said i was doing exactly what i should and she said it isnt weird at all for an animal mother to leave her babies and that hopefully Roxy would decide to take them back. ive noticed that roxy will lay down to nurse now but i dunno if its because shes too tired to stand or if she feels the need to nurse them, but she is not doing anything else for them, everytime i wipe their bums they potty, which means she def didnt do it. but i will not give up on them! im going to try everything first and wake up every 3 hours to nurse them and clean them  hopefully no more will pass! thanks for your comment, i feel overwhelmed and sad! but the babies that are left are very healthy looking and squeak and fight me with little paws when i clean them lol they act and sound healthy too! its sooo cute


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## Jaguar (Nov 15, 2009)

I have heard sometimes a mother will abandon her babies if she does not feel secure... she might also sense that they are ill or not strong enough to survive. Good luck with them.


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

Jagur, 7 of them did die. im kinda wondering if they were weak or ill, the 7 that are left are big healthy pups and their ears are devolping and the are getting color spots, whiskers and peach fuzz  i think these will all survive, fingers crossed!


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## Babs (Jan 26, 2012)

Oh no, I'm so sorry you lost some. Good luck with the ones you have left, and I really mean that. I'll be thinking of you and Roxy <3


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

It sounds like there was something wrong with the pups...the mom's sense this and will often stop caring for them, but will continue to care for healthy pups. Its the way of Nature unfortunately.


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

yes its very true :-/ and me as a human couldnt stand it lol but she has been much better with the pups again! she is sleeping with them right now on one of my t-shirts, for some reason shes become obsessive with me, she dosnt like being alone, as long as im near or holding her she will care for the pups, but if i leave she throws herself against the cage walls and eeps like crazy!! she is acted like a kid going thru a mommy cant leave my side stage! thats why i gave her my shirt i wore all day yesterday and she loves it, shes been on it every second that im not holding her lol ive never experienced this type of behavior in a rat before, ive had them be pretty attached but i dunno it seems like she has to hve me with her at all times lol has anyone had a rat like this? i put the pups back in with her and they all are cuddled up together on my shirt now  she keeps peaking out to see if im still here too, silly girl! the remaining pups grow so much every day, its amazing!! they are getting so cute and big, and all ready have ads of rattie personality!


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## PipRat (Jan 24, 2012)

Sorry to hear about the babies, glad to hear the others are doing well.


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## Keelyrawr (Mar 7, 2012)

Iheartroxyrat said:


> yes its very true :-/ and me as a human couldnt stand it lol but she has been much better with the pups again! she is sleeping with them right now on one of my t-shirts, for some reason shes become obsessive with me, she dosnt like being alone, as long as im near or holding her she will care for the pups, but if i leave she throws herself against the cage walls and eeps like crazy!! she is acted like a kid going thru a mommy cant leave my side stage! thats why i gave her my shirt i wore all day yesterday and she loves it, shes been on it every second that im not holding her lol ive never experienced this type of behavior in a rat before, ive had them be pretty attached but i dunno it seems like she has to hve me with her at all times lol has anyone had a rat like this? i put the pups back in with her and they all are cuddled up together on my shirt now  she keeps peaking out to see if im still here too, silly girl! the remaining pups grow so much every day, its amazing!! they are getting so cute and big, and all ready have ads of rattie personality!


 That's really weird, when my Cat was in labor about 4 years ago if i even tried to leave her side she would freak out and meow, stand up, and follow me. When she was in Mid-Birth too LOL I guess she just feels comforted when you're with her.  You have to post more pics soon!


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## Rat lover (Dec 28, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear about the little ratties. I wish you and your roxy luck and hope the rest survive. Keep us updated. Glad to hear you are acting as a " mother" for them.


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

its been rough! if i leave the house longer then 3 hours i have to bring momma and the pups along in a carrier nad a smaller nursing box with soft bedding where the pups stay, and a heating pad, towels, and mommas food and water and formula & eyedropper! lol i feel like a mom now having to lug that stuff with me! lol i only do if i cant make to feed them and i make sure they are plenty warm so they dont get chilled outside or in the car, of course miss roxy is used to going every where with me already tho ha! im very grateful for these little fighters, they are so strong! the light colored baby is the second biggest to a hooded baby who is the biggest and most devolped then the rest are hoods of a dark color too but ranging to pretty small but healthy!


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## kamii (Mar 14, 2012)

Wow, you really do sound like a mumma to them now! Poor little babies  Good luck to roxy and the survivors


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Ummm why are you doing all this? Is Roxy not feeding/caring for the survivors? If she is, it is better to leave them be in one place. Momma's take care of the healthy babies for weeks without your help, but you do need to get her out to run, and you need to handle the babies so they are used to it by the time 2 weeks rolls around and those eyes pop open.

I left my mom's while I worked for a full day...everyone was just fine when I got home.


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

she still isnt caring for them. i left her alone the first day and she didnt nurse them or anything, thats when the first 6 died. she does better if im near her but she kicks the pups away if they try and nurse, im still having to intervene, if i hadnt theyd all be dead. trust me i wish i didnt have to take care of them. i dunno if the litter was unhealthy or what but she was done with them. as long as i hold her she will let the pups nurse. when i leave her alone with them i find them cold and skinny and weak. i take Roxy and the pups with me when i have to leave for longer then 3 hours because the babies have to feed and have their bums wiped. ive done alot of research into this, i wouldnt have jumped in if i thought she was going to do it all on her own, but she wasnt. who knows why it happened, all i know is that i want to do everything i can to save them, they at least deserve a chance to live...


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

i had a momma rat named Ziggy in highschool and she had 17 pups, she never had or did anything that Roxy has done. Ziggy was a great mom, she kept them clean, the nest warm, kept putting the pups back in that would roll out of the nest ect. Roxy doesnt do any of these things, just how she is i guess, or the litter was unhealthy, but i have seen how mom rats should behave towards the pups, so i didnt just assume. i weighed what i saw, read, googled, and what i felt in my gut about the situation.


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## lynrichards13 (Mar 21, 2012)

It sounds to me like you are doing a good job helping the pups!! Definitely sounds like a hard time. I hope it all works out. Please keep us updated!! I have been rooting for these little guys and gals!


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

the pups are getting big fast! my picture downloadr thing sez its full so now im just trying to figure out why i cant delete the old downloads lol after that ill post some pics of the pups! they are sooo cute


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

haha ok i figured it out  im going to hurry and post some pics of them!


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## katkandy (Mar 3, 2012)

it's like kids...we do what we have to do cos we love them. Sometimes it seems like we are going above and beyond but every life has merit and the heart is not always rational or sensible. I hope this doesn't offend you but Roxy sounds like she's acting like a spoiled child. "Excuse me, I just gave birth to them and you expect me to do what??!! Potty train and feed them? Some one fetch me my smelling salts, I feel I may feint!" You go girl. Give those babies every chance. If Roxy was being 'perfect mummy' you'd have left them alone from the get go, but she wasn't. I'm sorry you lost 7, good luck with the survivors. Love and hugs from across the seas.


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

HAHAHA!!! omg thats sooo funny! thats how shes acting! shes mommys lil princess and i think shes kinda jealous lol :-/ i dunno how rats are with feelings like that but its how it seems to me! oh and she went into heat almost a day or two after she had them! im kinda wondering now if thats what was the cause of this? she was ready to get knocked up again? lmao. i dunno im def not an expert!! but yes, i love these lil ratlings and ill do everything i can to save them  Katkandy have you looked at the baby pics i posted yet? they are getting soo big! <3 and thank u for the love and hugs! i def need it! ive gotten hardly any sleep since the day they were born! ha but its worth it and it is getting me ready for kids ;-)


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## katkandy (Mar 3, 2012)

kids are easier...! (and yes veeeeery cute pics - lots of mini princes and princesses!)


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## Iheartroxyrat (Feb 22, 2012)

oh boy! lots of them ha! they are so cute! lil squeakers and eepers!


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Rats naturally go into heat within 24 hours of birth, if they get pregnant its called a back-to-back by breeders, or a post-partum pregnancy. The actual egg is fertilized but doesn't implant in the womb for a week, so the normal 3 week gestation is now 4 weeks plus to give the current litter a chance of surviving. Back-to-backs are very very hard on a mom rat, and BYB's do it all the time.


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## PitterPatter (Feb 28, 2012)

How are the pups today?


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