# Clueless Breeder



## spongebobvitamins

I found some really cute baby boys and we finally filled out the application. I'm declined because "fleece is not condoned for our rats" They keep their rats on aspen, the dusty stuff. The reason for is it is that "ammonia doesn't get trapped" Which I don't understand because doesn't the same thing happen with wood shavings. So, I asked this what should I put them on then? They reply with pine or aspen. I thought maybe this breeder had at least half a brain but I was wrong. Its so stupid that they can prohibit fleece but turn around and say pine and aspen shavings are the best bedding to use. They didn't mention paper pellets or things like Carefresh. They said kiln dried pine but really its still not a good idea at all. Its dusty. I'm so angry because those baby boys were so cute.  I'm not just going to not get fleece because of some clueless loser. I just wanna be mean to her so bad but I won't. Theres my rant.


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## CorbinDallasMyMan

Wood shavings seem to perform the best for controlling ammonia, better than paper bedding/Carefresh, and much, much better than fleece liners. Paper based beddings can be just as dusty as wood shavings. Fleece is very low dust but basically useless where ammonia is concerned. Fleece/fabric liners need to be changed and washed very often to keep ammonia levels in check at the same levels as wood shavings. Fleece without an absorbent layer underneath has zero odor/ammonia controlling properties. 

Aspen is a great choice. I understand that kiln-dried pine is also safe for rats. Most brands of small pet wood shavings are dust extracted. They're not completely free of dust but neither are paper beddings. Many rat owners prefer wood shavings because, while they may not be 100% free of dust, ammonia is a bigger concern for rats' sensitive respiratory systems.

I'm sorry you were turned down from this breeder. Everyone has their own opinions about what's best for rats. It sounds like this breeder is very passionate about her opinions. That's fine. She just wants what's best for her rats. Her opinions about wood shavings are not wrong. They're different than yours. That's fine.


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## Coffeebean

I agree actually I don't like fleece for many reasons, having used it before. It always got stinky despite having an absorption layer underneath, the rats chewed it up and balled it in the corners, and it didn't give them an outlet to dig and forage and nest like loose substrate. My water bill was so high too. And I never had so many runny noses til I tried the fleece.

However I think aspen is wonderful. Kiln-dried pine is great too, most pine bedding is kiln-dried. I used both for a long time and the rats loved it and I wasn't dealing with sudden respiratory outbreaks anymore. I'd be using it but currently one of my rats is allergic so I have to use a paper bedding which isn't my first choice. 

Wood bedding is always my go-to because it's best for ammonia control: ( https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...well/da2e2ff611acf8e2ea44a06860096f6737f73d13 ) You can see in that study how high the ammonia levels were with a paper bedding like Carefresh, in fact it had to be discontinued before the study was over. 

Another good study to check out: ( http://www.animalsandsociety.org/wp...Rate-and-Overall-Health-of-Male-CD-1-Mice.pdf )


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## Cast+Chrome

OMG did we meet/talk to the same breeder??? Before I got my boy Yuki I saw someone advertising super cute rats, but they got annoyed when I was asking questions. They used kiln-dried pine, and refused to talk about any health issues the parents had, or if they were in a cage or tank. I tried linking a page on how bad pine was, even kiln-dried (as there's mixed opinions, but a general consensus that there's better options), and they got pissed because "apparently {I} was more interested in arguing with her than adopting". SIGH


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## Kelsbels

I think that it's always good to be open to what someone is telling you. This breeder isn't clueless, but they might have been a little more helpful (assuming they didn't continue any conversation) by asking if you could consider other bedding and pointing you to links why they find fleece isn't the best. 

If this is your first time owning rats, I highly suggest being open to all information and looking into studies for yourself. You'll find that there is so much information and opinions of how to keep rats that sometimes you'll need to come to your own conclusions. 

Fleece does look cute if kept clean, but I found it to be impossible to use with my curious girls. I use hemp bedding, which seems to be available easily in Europe.


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