# I believe Sally thought she was looking at a snake



## Gma and Gpa P (Jan 17, 2009)

Last night we had the 3 big girls out for free-range time in my grand-daughters room. Sally was running to the book shelves and all of a sudden stopped in her tracks. If she had brakes on her feet, they woulda been smokin! I could see she was looking at something very intently but couldn't figure out what she had seen. After a few minutes of her being frozen and staring, she started creeping forward slowly, then freezing again, then stretching out again to get closer. Whatever it was, she finally decided it was nothing to be alarmed about and started running around again.

I finally figured out what it was that was bothering her! We have an oscillating fan sitting on top of a small dresser, and the cord is mostly behind the dresser but a little bit was hanging out. Every time the fan would oscillate, the cord would move just a tiny bit, going up and down. I'm thinking Sally saw the movement and thought she was seeing a snake. Nope! No snakes in THIS house!


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## Corpseflower (Jun 12, 2009)

Aw, poor Sally! Kinda funny though.


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## homebody (Jan 26, 2009)

Too cute. ;D Good instincts in that one, I guess.


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## Maple (Jun 9, 2008)

very cute!!
but poor sally!


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## Coolspruce (Mar 29, 2009)

Just a sad reminder of the sheer terror our little friends must deal with in their last moments when dealing with the real thing. Out in the wild, it's one thing, but a "human" putting one into a closed tank with no choice or chance to run is murder.


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## Little-Fizz (Mar 5, 2009)

Coolspruce said:


> Just a sad reminder of the sheer terror our little friends must deal with in their last moments when dealing with the real thing. Out in the wild, it's one thing, but a "human" putting one into a closed tank with no choice or chance to run is murder.


 Man I'm a vegan, I LOVE animals and I've cut my diet more then in half just to prove how much I love them. But that's the dumbest thing ever. I mean a snakes got to eat too. So some person who keeps reptiles is thinking the same thing about you right now, that some cruel person would rather see a snake starve to death rather then a poor ratty loose their life. It's a sad situation but it's life. I mean the people who do it and video tape it because they think it's the funniest thing ever, that's a little wack. And those people might consider seeing a doctor because no one should enjoy watching another animal suffering. While it may be more considerate to feed the snakes already dead rats... A lot of snakes won't go for that because it's against their nature. So it's kind of wrong saying a rats life is worth more then a snakes. They are both equal but unfortunately you can't train your snake to be a vegetarian. I'm not trying to start a big thing, maybe just try and make you realize... Like I don't own snakes, I never have and I never will. I own rats and love them dearly. 

I suppose you don't eat meat then? If you're so strongly opinionated about 'humans' putting rats in "closed tank with no chance' and then calling it murder... I should certainly hope you didn't have a steak on your plate tonight.


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## Kinsey (Jun 14, 2009)

Little-Fizz said:


> Coolspruce said:
> 
> 
> > Just a sad reminder of the sheer terror our little friends must deal with in their last moments when dealing with the real thing. Out in the wild, it's one thing, but a "human" putting one into a closed tank with no choice or chance to run is murder.
> ...




I have both rats and a snake. One of my ratties is in the same room as the snake (the other one is my brother's) I buy my snake frozen and humanly killed mice, and it is sad, but they go fast. I lvoe both my ratties and my snake, and i would feel awful feeding live, infact, i would probably try to bottlefeed the little boogers  anyway, my point is, not all snake owners hate rats and not all rat owners hate snakes. both of mine, though different, are my babies


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## FeffOx (Feb 8, 2009)

Little-Fizz said:


> Coolspruce said:
> 
> 
> > Just a sad reminder of the sheer terror our little friends must deal with in their last moments when dealing with the real thing. Out in the wild, it's one thing, but a "human" putting one into a closed tank with no choice or chance to run is murder.
> ...


I think Coolspruce means that putting a live rat in a cage with a snake is murder, frozen are better.


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## elizabethrae. (Dec 24, 2008)

Any snake can be taught to eat frozen... all it takes is a little persistence and creativity in the owner. It is also much safer for the snake. Live rats/mice can do a ton of damage to a reptiles head and eyes. Animals in the food industry are humanly killed; I wouldn't necessarily describe the way some snakes eat "humane". Many people also use the "it's just nature" excuse... In nature, the snake and rat would not be in an enclosure. A human placing a food item in a tank is not nature. Also, snakes would only be able to catch the young/old or sick animals. Not to mention some (not all) snake owners mistreat the rats/mice they purchase since they are "just food". Personally, I just can't respect people who feed live rats and mice. It's just pure laziness.


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## Little-Fizz (Mar 5, 2009)

elizabethrae. said:


> Animals in the food industry are humanly killed


I don't respect people who feed live rats and mice, I just don't believe ALL snakes can be taught to eat frozen. My science teacher couldn't do it anyways. Not with all his snakes. He had a lot has he breeds them. 

I'm not talking about happy go lucky farms you see driving down the country side. I'm talking factory farming, where I'm sure most of you get your meat unless you go and buy half a cow from a local farmer every 6 months. Where the animals fate is very much the same way coolspruce is describing. Obviously I'm not advocating it, I'm just saying a snake has to eat too.


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## Gma and Gpa P (Jan 17, 2009)

Hmmm. Well, it was NOT my intention for my posting to become a 'hate-don't hate snakes' thread, or a 'feed live or feed F/T' thread. I did not want this to become an argument! And I don't hate snakes, either. I just don't want a snake as a pet! My older brother has had snakes, and when he found out I have rats... well, let's just say the rest of the conversation was him laughing and me defending rats against snakes.

Anita


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## Little-Fizz (Mar 5, 2009)

Little-Fizz said:


> I'm not trying to start a big thing, maybe just try and make you realize... Like I don't own snakes, I never have and I never will. I own rats and love them dearly.


I wasn't trying to start stuff, I honestly just wanted to know how that was justified. I know you just wanted to share your story so for that I apologize.


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## Gma and Gpa P (Jan 17, 2009)

Little-Fizz said:


> Little-Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not trying to start a big thing, maybe just try and make you realize... Like I don't own snakes, I never have and I never will. I own rats and love them dearly.
> ...


Thank you! No hard feelings. I just wanted to share my story about Sally.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

I think elizabethrae has it right. its not natural in the first place for a snake to be in a small tank/enclosure like that. And a prey animal in the wild if they got away would escape...not so in an enclosure.

Btw my sister volunteers at a Wildlife Centre and WILD snakes take to frozen/thawed immediately (they don't feed live). So yeah, I think all snakes could be trained.


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## Coolspruce (Mar 29, 2009)

Little-Fizz said:


> Coolspruce said:
> 
> 
> > Just a sad reminder of the sheer terror our little friends must deal with in their last moments when dealing with the real thing. Out in the wild, it's one thing, but a "human" putting one into a closed tank with no choice or chance to run is murder.
> ...


To elaborate: there is a difference between the way of nature, the way of the food chain and the relationship of prey and predator,AND the premeditated, horrific way of snake owners to put any mammal into a CLOSED container with a snake, no way to back out, no chase. That is murder, and it's quite apart from nature. The difference should be easily discernible. What happens out in nature is one thing, but this artificial imprisonment and dropping a rat into this terrifying lion's den seems quite different to me. There's still closed dog and cock fighting, too. And I understand rats were formerly dumped into closed viewing areas to be trashed by crazed dogs. Wonderful.

That's where I draw the separation. And I happen to be fond of snakes. 

Oh and yes, it is my understanding that the slaughterhouse methods STILL have not improved, after all these years. So indeed, I am considering a further shift into vegetarianism, or even going vegan. We'll see. But please don't imagine I haven't thought of all this. And calling any member of this board wack is a little rude don't you think? I live in a conservative region where locals consider vegans to be wack, and I repeatedly find myself having to stick up for folks like you.


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## Little-Fizz (Mar 5, 2009)

Coolspruce said:


> And calling any member of this board wack is a little rude don't you think? I live in a conservative region where locals consider vegans to be wack, and I repeatedly find myself having to stick up for folks like you.


WOAH!!! When did I call anyone on this forum wack??? I never did such a thing, I said the sickos who video tape their snakes eating live rats because they think its funny/ the best thing in the world, those people are wack. I'm pretty positive NO ONE on this forum does that. 

we'll see? considering? You can't be feeling to guilty about it then. Don't try and make it seem like I should be thanking you, I have to stand up for myself on a daily basis, I'm used to it. A lot of hicks consider us weird, I'm ok with that. Theres no point in defending us if you don't 100% share our views, and you don't as you are not a vegan. I don't even like vegetarians. People come into my work all the time and make remarks about how gross the hot dogs are, I say I know. Then they try to show off that they are vegetarian, they are quick to say "oh I can't give up cheese it's too good" once I tell them I'm vegan. My only response to that is, dairy is murder so you might as well eat meat if your going to drink milk(obviously not to the customers although I would love too I just explain dairy is murder, not that they should eat meat ). Not that this is about veganism. I shouldn't even be responding after I already apologized for highjacking OPs thread. 

And to lilspaz, I guess my science teacher sucked then, because he couldn't get all his snakes to eat frozen. :-\


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## Coolspruce (Mar 29, 2009)

Little-Fizz said:


> Coolspruce said:
> 
> 
> > And calling any member of this board wack is a little rude don't you think? I live in a conservative region where locals consider vegans to be wack, and I repeatedly find myself having to stick up for folks like you.
> ...


If I misread you than I stand corrected and I apologize. The thing about the sickos you mention---well, we most definitely agree on that. I'll try to confine my reading of forums where I might be tempted to post a reply, to just early morning, the only time my head is clear enough for such. Except that it's evening now, of course.

Back to the OP. I notice my rats get a stare on something that spooks them, and they take some time to work out what it really is. As a recent rat convert, I'm still seeing new behaviors every day.


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## lilspaz68 (Feb 24, 2007)

Yeah that freeze and stare is from their terrible vision and they are trying to figure out if its a predator, and how far it is from them...my younger girls do this all the time. Sometimes they relax and other times they will bolt and not be touchable until they calm down. I find most young rats go through this "oooh everything is scaaary, including YOU" phase.


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## adoraluna (May 9, 2009)

lilspaz68 said:


> Yeah that freeze and stare is from their terrible vision and they are trying to figure out if its a predator, and how far it is from them...my younger girls do this all the time. Sometimes they relax and other times they will bolt and not be touchable until they calm down. I find most young rats go through this "oooh everything is scaaary, including YOU" phase.


Athena does the Freeze/stare thing. All. The. TIME! She's especially terrified of my SO. It looks like she's thinking "maybe if I don't move, he'll go away and not pick me up."

Penelope... not scared of ANYTHING!!! I should have named her Evel Kenevil.


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