# Still haven't forgiven myself ...



## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

I adopted Ember back in February from my sisters friend who had bought her as snake food ... For a month the poor girl was tossed in with a rat twice a week before finally they contacted me saying " do you want this rat? If not I have a friend with a snake I can give it to" 

Naturally we went and got her ... The plan was for me to surrender her to the rescue where she could find a forever home but I fell for her on the way home. She had been living in a rubbermaid bin and was scared but still she never bit or showed any aggression. 

It took me 4 months to fully tame her she was a very damaged rat. 


One day I let Her and her neutered brothers out into their playpen to play but little miss Ember climbed it and escaped. I went into panic attack mode she was newly tamed and doesnt come back when out of her cage she hides and she is fast and hard to catch 

Because of this stress I did the unthinkable ... 

I went to grab Ember but she is very slippery and a hard fighter and somehow my hand went from on her belly to on her tail ( I NEVER grab tails or anything) I watched in slow motion as she spun in my hand breaking her tail and felt the skin come off. Poor Ember went and hid shaking. She got in the back of a desk so we had to pull out the drawer then pull out my shaking baby. We rushed her to the vet for an emergency amputation. 

The day still wasnt over though. I asked the rescue for a temp cage for her while she healed She had 5 stitches in her tail and we couldnt get a cone or anything on her she was just too small. I let her settle into the bin and checked on her a few hours later. Her bin was COVERED in blood she had chewed out two stitches and was bleeding very badly. At the time I didnt know about Stypic powder and the vet didnt warn me about this so we compressed and soaked the stub in sterile cold water and bandaged it and made a splint so she couldnt chew anymore. 

I was exhausted and after making sure Ember couldnt chew I went to bed waking every few hours to check how she was doing ... we had moved her to our room because I wanted her close. Its hard to see in the dark though. I woke in the morning when there was some light coming in through the window and Poor Embers Mucus Membranes were grey and she was much colder than she should have been the blood loss took a toll. She was still alive though so I forced her to eat and drink and wrapped her up. Slowly her color came back. 

Its been two months since Ember got her stitches removed and she has dealt with the degloving well it doesnt even slow her down at all and she doesnt seem to suffer any balance loss or be any more susceptible to heat than the other girls 


Sorry This is so long. I just wanted to share her story and just say I can't believe I degloved a rat I had sworn to give a better life. I hope this story can help someone. 


Before and After pictures of Ember


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## Caz4500 (Jul 28, 2012)

aw hun dont feel bad your still giving Ember a great life better than most people would be able give her x


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## dukie1346 (Jul 31, 2012)

Aww, don't feel bad <3 accidents happen, and it's obvious you really do care about her.


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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

Friends sister ... And tossed in with a snake not a rat ... Sorry I was writing from my phone. 

Thanks for the support guys ... But I seriously hurt her  The first thing any rat owner learns is NEVER grab the tail.


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## SezSorkin (Jun 11, 2012)

Aww you didnt mean it and i'm sure she knows that, from the sounds of it you are giving her a great new life! She is adorable!


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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

After that escape I never used my playpen again my rats play on my couch with me ... all 3 girls are climbers but not jumpers :l my neutered boy is just a log lol that playpen would have worked as a cage. 

Thank you  I love her markings and she is such a sweety now how could someone ever offer her to a snake?

I do hope someone who grabs their rats tail even from time to time reads this before they have to go through what we did.


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## bobbiegirl23 (Aug 20, 2012)

awe thats so sad, but you didn't mean any harm and you didn't grab the tail on purpose so don't beat yourself up too much. she is still gorgeous!


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## mistymornings18 (Aug 13, 2012)

Awwwwwwww, don't blame yourself. You are still going to give her the best life. Blaming yourself won't bring back the tail now will it She knows you love her, and that you didn't mean to hurt her. My two month old dumbo got herself degloved yesterday. We were lucky as she didn't lose a lot of blood or have any issues with shock. She is still her normal, active, crazy little self.


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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

I think Ember went into shock because having her tail grabbed reminded her of the days she use to get tossed in with that awful snake  that's the only time she had been handled like that. I actually read and responded to your post misty  You guys are making me want to update their picture thread Thanks for the support guys. So many other forums would have blamed me for abuse or something


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## mistymornings18 (Aug 13, 2012)

elliriyanna said:


> I think Ember went into shock because having her tail grabbed reminded her of the days she use to get tossed in with that awful snake  that's the only time she had been handled like that. I actually read and responded to your post misty  You guys are making me want to update their picture thread Thanks for the support guys. So many other forums would have blamed me for abuse or something


I would love to see some updated pictures of them Abuse is intentionally harming your pet. What happened with ember wqe purely accidental. You weren't attempting to grab a tail, it just happened. You took immediate action to help her and thus saved her life. That's not neglect, that's being a responsible, loving, awesome pet owner .she is lucky to have a mom like you watching out for her.


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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

I will pm you after I get some shots  I was just lucky my vet was willing to work with me I am between jobs and if I hadn't been able to set up a payment plan I don't know what I would have done.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

There but for the grace of gawd go I... Last night I was heading for bed and our little girl, now turned amazingly agile, decided to make a last ditch stand before being shoved back into her cage. I grabbed her as she vanished between the furniture. A quick twist and spin and I had a handful of tail... Thankfully I had the presence of mind to let go fast the rat and her tail didn't part ways and there was no degloving, but I'm guessing I was about a 100th of a second away from an expensive vet bill.

Accidents happen, sometimes rats or even people get hurt or killed. This kind of thing can happen to anyone of us.

And yes, compared to certain others this is a very special forum.


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## Babs (Jan 26, 2012)

Aw, don't worry. It was an accident. We all have to learn from accidents, especially when it comes to animals. I once accidentally caught Scrabble's toe in the cage door as I was closing it, I felt awful for a long time afterward. It's still a little purple around the top but he got over it. 



> Thanks for the support guys. So many other forums would have blamed me for abuse or something


This is a _*very *_nice petforum. As someone who has done time on many pet forums, this is my all time favourite. A lot of places will judge you for the slightest things, but this forum is full of friendly and genuinely helpful people. I think because a lot of us come here with just very basic knowledge that by the time we're educated up on these things and we encounter new members, we just remember that we were like that not so long ago.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Not to hijack this thread... But I just wanted to add that as a newbie, after making a post on another forum and catching sooo many flames, I actually considered giving up on ratties altogether thinking I might actually be unfit to raise a rat...

Thankfully within the following two weeks we met a vet who told me our rattie was in great health and unusually smart and friendly, we met a retired breeder who told us that she had the nicest personality and was as well adjusted a rattie as any she had ever handled and a life long rat owner that told me she wished her ratties were half as well behaved and trained as ours. That got my head screwed back on straight. 

The problem wasn't with me or my rattie or anything I was doing, it was that I went to the wrong forum. It really is nice to be among people that care about ratties and other people who own them and not just their own ego's, opinions and status. 

Well when it comes to the other forums, their loss is our gain.


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## PrincessRat (Aug 22, 2012)

I was told that you are always supposed to grab rats by their tail if you're not in front of them, because they can get scared being grabbed from behind by their body. Nothing has ever happened to any of my Ratties I've ever had by grabbing their tails. I've had them pull away reallly fast and hard when they get behind something and pull them out by their tail and nothing ever happened to them. One of my girls, who recently died of lung cancer, she hurt her tail playing on my brother's hamster wheel and had to get it amputated and I felt so bad that I forgot to take the wheel out that time because she liked to play with the hamster. I never had a problem with grabbing rats by their tails and I've been told it's what you're supposed to do, but after reading this I will never grab my babies by their tail again. I don't want to risk hurting them like that. I feel so bad that all this time I could have hurt my rats very bad.  I'm a very responsible rat mommy and I can't believe I was lead to believe it was okay to grab their tails. Thank you so much for posting this!


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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

PrincessRat said:


> I was told that you are always supposed to grab rats by their tail if you're not in front of them, because they can get scared being grabbed from behind by their body. Nothing has ever happened to any of my Ratties I've ever had by grabbing their tails. I've had them pull away reallly fast and hard when they get behind something and pull them out by their tail and nothing ever happened to them. One of my girls, who recently died of lung cancer, she hurt her tail playing on my brother's hamster wheel and had to get it amputated and I felt so bad that I forgot to take the wheel out that time because she liked to play with the hamster. I never had a problem with grabbing rats by their tails and I've been told it's what you're supposed to do, but after reading this I will never grab my babies by their tail again. I don't want to risk hurting them like that. I feel so bad that all this time I could have hurt my rats very bad.  I'm a very responsible rat mommy and I can't believe I was lead to believe it was okay to grab their tails. Thank you so much for posting this!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using PG Free


I am glad this could help someone. If I were you I would only pick them up from the front or make a sound so they know you are there and dont get scared. 

Please don't let your rats play with your hamsters though rats can EASILY kill hamsters and since they dont know how to communicate so many things can go wrong  Its a common misconception that different small animals can live together and be friends but anything smaller than the rat is most likely not going to end well. 

I dont mean to sound rude or like a know it all


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## RatzRUs (Feb 5, 2012)

I admit I have accidentally grabbed mine by the tail when in trying to get them too put them back in their cage. When I relate it's their tails I always let go automatically. I never mean too do it,it just happens and I do t realize its their tails because they go under the bed and we have drawers underneath it. Its really dark so you can't see what you are grabbing. I always felt really horrible afterwards and would always give them extra treats I haven't done it in months I always try toofeel around for their pudge first.


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## PrincessRat (Aug 22, 2012)

elliriyanna said:


> I am glad this could help someone. If I were you I would only pick them up from the front or make a sound so they know you are there and dont get scared.
> 
> Please don't let your rats play with your hamsters though rats can EASILY kill hamsters and since they dont know how to communicate so many things can go wrong  Its a common misconception that different small animals can live together and be friends but anything smaller than the rat is most likely not going to end well.
> 
> I dont mean to sound rude or like a know it all


Thanks for the advice, but my girls played with the hamster every day since the day we got him. He recently passed away as well, but they were all best friends. Every one of my animals get along perfectly well with all the other animals, they are all watched closely together and none of them have every tried to hurt one another. My Ratties ride on the backs of my rabbit, dogs, cars, and sheep. My kitties and rats love to cuddle together. The big dog protects all the smaller animals like her own children. And my Brother had the calmest, sweetest hamster ever. I am not a fan of hamsters at all, but I fell for this little guy real fast. And my girls wouldn't hurt anything. They have grown up around and played with dogs, cats, hamsters, lizards, snakes, mice, chickens, ducks, sheep, and people. All of my animals are taught to be understanding and love one another from the moment they enter my home. They are taught to always be gentle and kind with one another, and to accept each other's differences. Believe it or not, animals can understand this. 


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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

PrincessRat said:


> Thanks for the advice, but my girls played with the hamster every day since the day we got him. He recently passed away as well, but they were all best friends. Every one of my animals get along perfectly well with all the other animals, they are all watched closely together and none of them have every tried to hurt one another. My Ratties ride on the backs of my rabbit, dogs, cars, and sheep. My kitties and rats love to cuddle together. The big dog protects all the smaller animals like her own children. And my Brother had the calmest, sweetest hamster ever. I am not a fan of hamsters at all, but I fell for this little guy real fast. And my girls wouldn't hurt anything. They have grown up around and played with dogs, cats, hamsters, lizards, snakes, mice, chickens, ducks, sheep, and people. All of my animals are taught to be understanding and love one another from the moment they enter my home. They are taught to always be gentle and kind with one another, and to accept each other's differences. Believe it or not, animals can understand this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using PG Free


I understand animals can learn I am not anti animal lol I have a cat who has been taught rats are friends but instincts can be stronger than what they have learned. My Emma was introduced to mice and hamsters at 6 weeks and still she would kill them if she got the chance.


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## PrincessRat (Aug 22, 2012)

elliriyanna said:


> I understand animals can learn I am not anti animal lol I have a cat who has been taught rats are friends but instincts can be stronger than what they have learned. My Emma was introduced to mice and hamsters at 6 weeks and still she would kill them if she got the chance.


Well that is your own rat. My girls wouldn't hurt him. They treated him like their own baby, groomed him and cuddled him and loved him. They basically adopted him as their own. When he passed away they missed him so much. Maybe not always happen, but in this case it was like he was a rat. He acted a lot more like a rat than a hamster. That is why my brother got a rat when Paul passed because he knew there would never be a hamster quite like him. .I believe that love has no boundaries, it sees no limits. If animals can love others of their own kind, and they can love humans, they can love any other creature just the same.



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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

No Emma is a CAT and your beliefs are your own just saying there are proven dangers and any responsible owner would not be willing to take them. My cat is fine with my rats but sometimes nature beats all I am not saying your rats weren't fine with your hamster just that this is not something people should attempt. No need to argue and take it personally this post had nothing to do with hamsters with rats lol


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## PrincessRat (Aug 22, 2012)

elliriyanna said:


> No Emma is a CAT and your beliefs are your own just saying there are proven dangers and any responsible owner would not be willing to take them. My cat is fine with my rats but sometimes nature beats all I am not saying your rats weren't fine with your hamster just that this is not something people should attempt. No need to argue and take it personally this post had nothing to do with hamsters with rats lol


My mistake about Emma. And i'm asking this very nicely, please, DO NOT accuse me of not being a responsible pet owner. I know perfectly well what I am doing raising my babies. Thank you. I am grateful for your opinions and advice, but I would like to you also please respect my pet parenting skills even if you don't agree with them. Thanks.


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

Actually both sides are right here... This is a matter of genetics, not how nice your rat is. All my rats were wonderful (at least to their human family) but one was a part-wild rat with pretty much full wild type personality characteristics... She got along great with big dogs, but flat out stone cold killed small animals, I got a nasty bite by putting my hand between her and a mouse she was intent on killing. Most likely if I let her she would have made a meal of the mouse. I have another rat that's 100% domestic and she'll either ignore mice or swat them out of her way, she might even flip one over and try to groom it, but no hostility.

Now my latest rattie is somewhere along the evolutionary scale between the two. She's way more capable than my big domestic rattie, but so far at least I haven't experienced any of the freaky wild rat personality traits like eating small animals or attacking strangers.

Having seen both extremes, and aknowledging that there is a sliding scale in between, both sides are absolutely correct. If your ratties is closer to the wild type in nature and personality, it will kill small animals instinctively, if your rattie is closer to the domestic end of the spectrum, it's not likely to harm any other creature. My domestic feeder rat won't harm a cricket.

This is not a matter of parenting skills, but a matter of valid observations made on different rats. If I had only had a single wild type rat, I could say with confidence that it was ok to leave your rat outdoors overnight, if I only had a domestic I would say that was crazy, having had both I can say that both are true depending on the particular rat.

This is one of those strange cases where both opposing opinions are right. And unfortunately it's this kind of situation that leads to needless arguements. Some rats will see small animals as food whereas others will see them as playmates or playthings and hopefully an attentive rat parent will know which they have before Fluffy eats Mickey.


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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

I decided its not worth arguing about its getting nowhere and is VERY off topic my personal beliefs are no matter how much you trust them the safety of another animal is not worth the risk she believes its worth a shot if you think they won'tI just Want to get back on topic.


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## PrincessRat (Aug 22, 2012)

Rat Daddy said:


> Actually both sides are right here... This is a matter of genetics, not how nice your rat is. All my rats were wonderful (at least to their human family) but one was a part-wild rat with pretty much full wild type personality characteristics... She got along great with big dogs, but flat out stone cold killed small animals, I got a nasty bite by putting my hand between her and a mouse she was intent on killing. Most likely if I let her she would have made a meal of the mouse. I have another rat that's 100% domestic and she'll either ignore mice or swat them out of her way, she might even flip one over and try to groom it, but no hostility.
> 
> Now my latest rattie is somewhere along the evolutionary scale between the two. She's way more capable than my big domestic rattie, but so far at least I haven't experienced any of the freaky wild rat personality traits like eating small animals or attacking strangers.
> 
> ...


Thank you. And I don't just throw my rats and other animals together and let them play. Just like when i introduce new rats to each other, I introduce the different animals. If they don't like each other or one tries to harm the other then they don't get to play together. If they get along then there's no reason not to allow them together. I've never had my animals not like each other, except my cats who just can't stand each other most of the time while every once in a while they're great friends. I understand that not all animals are going to get along but it's not "risking" anything by getting different animals together in a safe and responsible way to see if they can be friends or not.

Yes this is off topic, but my original post was about the topic. It's only natural for conversations to lead into knew subjects.


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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

My opinion is just different I feel there is a risk when introducing new species and it is something to take cautiously if you even consider it. Its just my own opinion just as you have yours 

Can we just stop this discussion?


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## Fils (Aug 23, 2012)

Hi, sorry to just butt in and sorry it's not quite on topic (this thread seemed most fitting) but I was wondering if you might be able to help me. When I went to get Yuna and Leeloo, Yuna jumped from my hands as I was replacing her in her cage, and took a nasty fall (I hate myself for it  Please don't hate me) She was okay, no injury seemed to be sustained, but now since I've had her home, she's very timid and I was concerned she may not be eating. I offered her some jam from a spoon and I wanted to give her a quick look over (just in case anything nasty had happened and it wasn't noticed before) but when I went to touch her even very gently, she'd cower away and then jump at my hand. I have left her alone for now but I'm scared she may never trust/forgive me. Could this be the case?

Many thanks in advance


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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

I will PM you Fils


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## Fils (Aug 23, 2012)

Thank you ;D


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## Rat Daddy (Sep 25, 2011)

My rats fall or jump off things all of the time, unless your rattie is old or unusually frail a reasonable drop shouldn't bother it at all.


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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

Rat Daddy said:


> My rats fall or jump off things all of the time, unless your rattie is old or unusually frail a reasonable drop shouldn't bother it at all.


Its more of a taming issue Fils posted a thread in introductions if you would like to read that


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## Caz4500 (Jul 28, 2012)

Hey this might make you feel a tad better I went to our local pet shop yesturday to buy my boys a new hammock and they have an "adoption centre" and there were 3 boys in there all degloved and I asked what happened to them and the lady said the people who had them had them in a hamster cage and they all got so stressed they just shed their tails! 
At least Ember is having a super life! These ones were so bored and stressed it simply happened where as what happened with Ember was a total accident xxx


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## elliriyanna (Jul 27, 2011)

How the heck do you make a rat stressed enough to shed or pull off their own tail skin  and then not even take them to the vet? That's not OK


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## PrincessRat (Aug 22, 2012)

That is awful! I don't see how you can get a rat sooo stressed that they would do that! 


-Rats are my life-


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## IOVERATS (Aug 25, 2012)

Don't blame yourself, you've given her a far better life than she would have got. Being thrown into a snake and being eaten is far worse. And anyway, you've probably educated many people through this story. Is a quick second thing anyway, you were worried about her so you grabbed her tail, don't worry, of course things could have been done differently but when your in the moment you just don't think, and besides things could have got a lot worse if you'd hadnt of done this, she could have escaped the house and you'd never of seen her again. It's always a scare when small pets escape from places, because you never know where they will get to. One of my cousins male rats Reggie got his tail degloved, because when my cousin had him out, he saw Rolo (his brother) eating a broccoli head and he literally jumped, out of her hands and rat off with the broccoli Rolo wanted it back so he ran off after him, my cousin got so scared she looked EVERYWHERE and still couldn't find the brothers, in the end she went into the kitchen and got some Cheerios out and shook the box, Rolo came running, but without his brother, my cousin have him a cheerio and was about to put him back in the cage, but he leapt out of her hands and tried to get her to follow, so she did and she found a frightened Reggie, they'd been gone for ages by now (around 5 days) so he looked starving, but when she tried to call him out, he flinched back under the dresser, so she tempted him back out with a cheerio but he grabbed it and ran, my cousin panicked she couldn't lose him again. So she went for the only place she could, and tried to get him by the bottom, but as she grabbing him, her hand slipped and she grabbed the tail, and you know what happened then, but her case was worse the whole tail had to be amputated, she wouldn't tell me what happened afterwards but Reggie died a week later, but it was because of the amputation because he was only 8 weeks old and he was a healthy happy rat. Don't worry, you've given her a better life than she would of got. Don't beat yourself up, shes still with you


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## Lovely Rats (May 14, 2012)

elliriyanna said:


> Friends sister ... And tossed in with a snake not a rat ... Sorry I was writing from my phone.
> 
> Thanks for the support guys ... But I seriously hurt her  The first thing any rat owner learns is NEVER grab the tail.


But you didn't _try _to grab her tail, and it was an accident. The important thing now is that she's healthy and happy!


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