# Dissection



## ratsaremylife (Nov 5, 2013)

So I have had my rat Rosy's body in the freezer for a while, not having the nerve to bury it just yet. She died in the winter, hence why she was in the freezer in the first place. Recently my weird side kicked in and I got very curious... I want to dissect a rat. Has anyone ever done that? I also want to see a rat skull. Some people might find me heartless or something but I am just curious. I also believe it will help me in my vet career. Has anyone ever done this? Can it be done on a frozen rat that I thaw? Looking for any advice.  P.S. Sorry if it's in the wrong section


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## DustyRat (Jul 9, 2012)

In Biology class in High School we dissected rats, frogs and even these itty bitty pigs.


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## LeStan82 (Dec 31, 2013)

Um, yes you can once its thawed. Be prepared, it will be stinky and messy


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## nanashi7 (Jun 5, 2013)

You could just bury her politely and use online dissections...http://www.biologycorner.com/worksheets/rat_dissection.html#.U49G74ashcY


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## ratsaremylife (Nov 5, 2013)

I will probably end up just getting a specific one meant for dissection. I can't use my own critter.


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## Alisonacross (Jun 3, 2014)

I dissected a rat last semester. I cant imagine dissecting my own rat, though. That would break my heart. It was hard enough to break their arms to pin them on the table. ):


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## ilovescience (May 14, 2014)

How peculiar. I was just asking a friend of mine if hospitals allow patients to take home their amputated limbs. I was thinking that if I ever had to amputate a body part, I better be able to take it home. The mere *idea* of losing a leg or arm is devastating. I think it would help with the coping process (for myself, that is), to be able to do as I pleased with my no-longer-attached bit - which would be to dissect it.

I was considering the same when my babies passed. I think it would be rather intimate. (I'm horrible with analogies, but) I kind of think of it like how the Egyptians mummified their dead. In this case, it would be preserving the knowledge of my babies' insides (literally). 

For safety purposes, however, I'd advise against it unless you have proper related training and equipment. Specimens intended for dissection are immersed in preservatives (like formaldehyde, and recently, phenoxyethanol). Also, the fact that she was frozen may complicate things (unless she was cryopreserved). Water expands into a crystalline structure when solid/frozen and I believe they can puncture cell membranes.. Think fresh vs thawed strawberry.

Knowledge is power. And there is a STARK difference between reading about anatomy and looking at pictures vs performing a dissection yourself. It's an entirely enlightening and equally frustrating experience. After all, the specimen and body parts don't come neatly color coordinated. But you have to be smart about it.


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## ilovescience (May 14, 2014)

Also, if you've never dissected anything before, I would highly suggest buying a whole chicken from the grocery store. THAT was an intense (and somewhat frightening) experience.


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## ratsaremylife (Nov 5, 2013)

I have dissected a baby pig, a snake (it had baby eggs in it!), a worm, a frog, and a few more. 

Does anyone know where I could get one to dissect?


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Changed the thread title so that sensitive viewers can click at their own discretion.


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## ratmode (May 15, 2014)

I work in a coroner's office and perform autopsies on the reg. Dissecting a frozen body is not a pleasant experience: freezing causes too many destructive changes in tissue to make it useful. That's why bodies slated for autopsy are typically stored a few degrees above freezing.

Personally, I would not dissect this rat - I would cut a rat that had just died and hadn't been frozen, if I were interested in cutting a rat. If you do decide to do a "ratopsy", be careful with the scalpel - cut a Y-shaped incision on the front that will give you access to the ribcage and digestive organs, then CAREFULLY remove the chest plate (ribs + muscles and fat covering them) to reveal the chest organs. If you dissect the heart, try making lateral incisions following the flow of blood - will give you an idea of what killed your rat. You might also be able to identify fluid in the lungs or a similar pathology. But if he's been frozen, these will probably be useless.

Oh, also - your rat probably has rigor mortis. Don't be shy about pulling on limbs to get them to move. You will break the rigor, but not the bone if you are careful. You might also notice discoloration of the skin, that's called livor mortis and it occurs due to changes in blood flow (namely, it stops and sinks to the bottom). Look for something called "petechial hemorrhaging" if you want to identify whether or not choking or some kind of respiratory distress may have caused death.


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## ratsaremylife (Nov 5, 2013)

Where can I purchase a rat for dissection?


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## ratmode (May 15, 2014)

Carolina (carolina.com) sells preserved rats for dissection, including ones with double injections that allow you to easily visualize veins and arteries in the circulatory system. You should also get a good scalpel, forceps, hemostats, and a couple of syringes of varying sizes. Oral syringes from CVS might work but the tips are kind of small - a 1 ml TB syringe should get you into any really tight spaces, depending on the size of the rat. I recommend the Perfect Solution rats because they aren't preserved in formaldehyde to the best of my knowledge. You'll also want some of those metal poking tools like the dentist uses - I can't recall the name at the time - to reflect tendons and the like.

You probably won't need a bone saw to cut the chest plate, but I am not really sure what kind of tool would be useful. When I dissected cats I couldn't cut their bones with my scalpel, especially not the skull - a small hacksaw might be useful for the skull, and perhaps some tinsnips or heavy-duty wire cutters for the rib cage. Go slow if you do cut bones, especially the skull - it's easy to cut into the brain, which can render it useless if you want to visualize ventricles etc. in such a small organ. Use chlorhexidine solution to sanitize the area before and after dissecting, and of course get some good protective gloves. Scrubbing up with Betadine afterwards is also a good idea, but not super necessary - the preservative has probably killed almost everything. There's an enzymatic cleaner that works really well on blood, but your rat should have been almost entirely exsanguinated by dissection, and any remaining blood will have clotted anyways.

Lastly, remember that you can always cut, but you can't un-cut. Go slow and steady with the scalpel - try to cut and reflect the skin first so you can see subcutaneous fat and muscles. After you've examined the musculature of the chest and abdomen you can cut it to see the internal organs. There will probably be a layer of muscle separating the heart and lungs from the GI tract, that's the diaphragm, and it's REALLY EASY to destroy it in human dissection so I'd imagine it's pretty easy in rats too. The muscle surrounding the abdominal cavity might have a couple of layers which could be interesting to see.

Also, pretty much every organ is surrounded by a couple membrane layers, e.g. the heart - so don't immediately cut into the heart, cut the pericardium first and remove the sac surrounding the myocardium. Try not to sever the aortic arch when you do remove the heart, or any other major vessels surrounding it - it's much more useful when you can observe the way blood enters and leaves the heart via these vessels.

FINALLY, it might help if you can shave the rat first, or get a hairless rat.


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## ratmode (May 15, 2014)

Sorry to double-post - the Virchow technique is a widely-used method of organ examination in human autopsies. I imagine it could be modified to work for rats. We usually take the organs out en bloc (Gohn method) but the Virchow technique is really good if you're learning how to do an autopsy. Sorry I can't offer more information about animal dissection specifically, humans are more my area of knowledge - hope this helps 

Dissection is an art as much as it is a science. When I say we use the Gohn method, I just mean that the forensic pathologist prefers to take organs out in that order - but it really, REALLY depends on the case. There really is no one standard method that works best, it depends on the situation - every person/animal/death is different. We "mix and match" all the time, depending on what we need to see. You'll get the hang of it as you continue through the dissection.

http://www.expertconsultbook.com/ex...5453-5..00004-5--s0130&isbn=978-1-4160-5453-5


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## ratsaremylife (Nov 5, 2013)

Thank you so much! So excited to try this.


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## rileys-mom (May 26, 2014)

I don't think I could do my own pet rat, but you can buy animals for dissection. The cheapest means would be to buy already frozen feeder rats. Check Craigslist. 

When my very first rat passed away I was on vacation. I had a neighbor taking care of my pets. I had told her that Rudy was very old and I expecting him to pass away. When I got home, sure enough he had, but she threw him away!!! My pet. Threw him in the garbage. Had I been taking care of someone's pet who died, I would have either buried it for them, or if it were small enough (like a rat) I would have wrapped it up and put it in the freezer for the owner to do with as they wished. I would never throw away someone's pet.


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## Maiden (Mar 9, 2012)

I know the delema of waiting for burial all too well, and it really seems like you don't want to let her go yet. As you are a veterinary student might I make a different suggestion?Be warned, this is morbid. If you're sensitive don't read this. I heard a story once where a science teacher brought in three horse skulls for her class to exam. It came out that they had been her beloved horses and could tell which skull belonged to which horse. Once they passed of old age she had the heads removed, then placed them into a tank full if flesh eating bugs (beetles?) that ate the flesh leaving her will a perfect bone. As a rat is much smaller if you wanted to do something of the like you could use the whole body and even reassemble the skeleton for a display piece in your future venteranary office or your home if it fits your taste.


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## artistwolf (Jun 5, 2014)

I've dissected a rat before in a Biology class... It was very... Interesting. And gross. If you do ever dissect a rat, consider googling rat insides diagram. It shows you drawing so that you can see what you're doing.Was your rat's blood drained or anything? I would imagine it would be pretty messy and disgusting if it wasn't... Though I don't know if actual rat dissecting companies do that. I think so though.


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## ratmode (May 15, 2014)

Companies that sell rats for dissection do typically exsanguinate (bleed) the rats before injecting them with dye and preserving them. Dissecting a body with the blood still in it is very messy indeed. The blood starts to clot after a while, but that means the body also starts to decompose, which means a different kind of mess.

I have used flesh-eating beetles to strip animal bones before, they do work really well. I forget what they were called.


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## ratsaremylife (Nov 5, 2013)

So cool! That would be cool to try Maiden.  Thanks all.


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## LittleFuzzBalls (Apr 21, 2014)

This is very interesting... I think it could help to cope, but I would worry about diseases. I was part of our school's accelerated Science program, so I have dissected frogs, pigs, rats ( which nearly broke my heart ), mice, snake, and a squid in 5th grade. ( I got ink all over my lab partner's face!!!!! ) Back then I had no stance against it, but now I feel like... Maybe in 5th grade I didn't need to dissect a squid.I get it in college, but not in early school, it just seems unnecessary. This is just my opinion, please do not hate me for it...


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## Charlottesmom (Nov 27, 2013)

I found this thread most enlightening! While I could never dissect any of my pets who have passed away it would be too emotional, I think your thirst for knowlege is commendible, learning in any form is never a waste. I think the chicken idea is a good one, it would be a way to practise and get a feel for what you are doing. I always comment on how my mom attacks and basically dissects the remains of our Thanksgiving turkey every year, seriously the woman pulls that poor carcass apart limb from limb! ;0)


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