# First Time [Semi-Unexpected] Rat Owner. My Bin Cage:



## watthemath (Jun 15, 2012)

Hi everyone! I joined this forum for the sole purpose of asking this question, but I do plan on sticking around to learn everything I can about rats! 
My boyfriend and I researched dwarf hamsters for weeks, and spent days building this cage. We wanted a cage big enough to house two hamsters, so we decided on a bin cage. We went to the pet store [a mom and pop store, not a corporate pet store] to finally get our hamsters, but they only had two cages with dwarf hamsters. One cage had tiny things between the size of a quarter and a half dollar coin. Precious! But we knew we wouldnt be able to tell them apart. So Davey wanted to get the white and grey ones. But literally all the hamsters liked to bite. They weren't super friendly. So the girl pulled out this cage of baby rats. They are still kittens, I believe! We put our hands in the cage and they would just lick your fingers and climb up onto your arm, crawl to your shoulder. She said she has a rat and she walks around the house and does laundry with him on her shoulder. Then this one rat climbed into my hand and I was sold. We went home with two baby rats instead of two baby hamsters.

Here is the end result after everything was added to the cage:








These are the two little guys we got! Mine is Spencer [the one towards the top]. Davey's is Pete [the one towards the bottom]! This was after their olive oil bath. They loved it afterwards. Licking each other nonstop. Haha.








The next two pictures are right after we got them. They're both of my little Spencer! c: He's so cute!

















We're thinking the cage will be a bit cramped when they grow to full size, so we do plan on adding an additional room or two somewhere.
My question is this: from my research, I know that hamsters can get rather aggressive when not housed alone. The setup of the cage can also lead to aggressiveness [I tried to make it as much like one giant cage as I could]. But I've heard that rats don't generally have as aggressive a personality and actually prefer living with another rat. These guys are definitely littermates. Do you guys think my cage is acceptable for housing two rats? Especially when we end up adding an additional room or two. Is there a chance they could end up becoming territorial and fighting?

P.S. Sorry for the giant pictures. I'm not sure how to resize.
P.P.S. My phone camera sucks at focusing :x


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

Another room or two would make a nice size. I don't have a lot of experience with boys, but they should be just fine.

It's funny how many people go for hamsters and come to realize how mean and unsociable most of them are! Rats are so much better. You definitely made the right choice. Might want to swap that wheel out with a bigger model, though!


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## watthemath (Jun 15, 2012)

Thank you!! Thought about the wheel thing. The next size up was absolutely huge. And expensive. If they end up actually enjoying the wheel I will search for a cheaper one on ebay or craigslist. However, my rats don't really play on the wheel much so far. I also read that once the males become adults they mellow out and are more... laid back. I read they use their toys for laying on moreso than actively playing with. Or that they prefer mind-stimulating toys. And that they prefer interaction and exercise that involves their owner more than stimulating themselves. Of course, I don't know if this is true for all, or even most, rats. I'm completely new!


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## RatMama13 (Aug 20, 2011)

First of all..congrats on youre new rats! The cage is a good start but the ventilation could be a major ventalation issue. Until you can get a bigger cage it should be ok though. Watch for chewing since it is plastic. Its good you're doing research and this forum is a wealth of information! Read though posts and stickies in homes, health, and general and you be off to a good start!


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## watthemath (Jun 15, 2012)

May I ask what the possible major ventilation issue is? Also, I am watching for nibbling on the plastic. I made sure to buy a storage tub with no dips or indents so that they have less places to chew. ^^


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

I don't see ventilation being an issue with the way the wire sides have been set up.


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## watthemath (Jun 15, 2012)

I didn't get a picture of the lids in the picture, but they lock on. And we drilled _a lot _of holes in the top for added ventilation.


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## cagedbirdsinging (May 28, 2012)

I would cut the top of the lid out and replace it with wire just as you did with the two sides.


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## Maltey (Jun 26, 2011)

I actually think the set up looks ok- perhaps you could add a room on the top for extra height? Not only would that reduce the amount of floor space it takes up, but it would give them variety and somewhere to climb. Also on that subject I would suggest adding some hammocks/ropes/baskets/ledges- something to create extra levels in the cage as it's all very flat at the moment.
The boys are very cute though


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## ruffles (May 13, 2012)

Wow, I LOVE your cage setup! I'm with you on going in for hammies and coming out with rats...comparatively, I've found hamsters to be dumb as rocks and MEAN, haha! Whereas those boys will probably be awesome for you guys. You sound like you're doing great with them so far, to me. That cage setup is very thoughtful -- the side panels look very sturdy, and with any luck you got little guys who won't chew. My girls never did. That looks like a pretty natural-type cage for them, actually, and much more visually appealing than other bin cages I've seen! A word to the wise, though: at some point you might want to find some safe spray paint for some new mesh panels, because galvanized cloth stinks to high heaven after a while.

I do second something for climbing, but...I couldn't tell you how to go about that with a bin-cage. Maybe attach the wire part of an 18x24 cage to the lid, but I'm not sure how nice that would be, aesthetically. As an aside, yeah, with any luck your boys will continue to go well together...rats DO need cagemates, unlike hammies. And yes, doing your daily chores with one riding around on your shoulders (just be sure they're trained to stay there, or maybe buy 'em a harness when they're big enough) is totally one of the highlights of rat ownership! They make awesome companions, and you can take them in public, too. The looks people will give you are PRICELESS.


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## watthemath (Jun 15, 2012)

Thank you all very much for your input! We planned on putting mesh on the lids as well, but at the time we didn't have enough nuts and bolts! Also, we figured if we wanted to add a second level it would be easier to do of the entire lid wasn't mesh. I realize it looks flat now, but they're so small that they have plenty to climb on at the moment. When they're older, however, it'll be necessary to add more dimension. I was thinking, there are so many different types of storage tubs, I was thinking about getting one that was taller rather than longer. Maybe brainstorm and figure out how to add ramps and ledges to that. I'll worry about that later. For now, I'm all D.I.Y.ed out. Haha. 
I agree with you on the hamsters. I've come to find that they do seem rather... unintelligent and unfriendly. I'm so so happy the lady was so persistent in trying to get us to take home the rats. Very good decision on our part!

Edit: I looked back at my pictures and about the flatness of the cage setup, I forgot to mention that I bought them a few more things to add dimension. A wooden bridge they can climb and chew on as well as a ball with a bell in it [made of some hemp-looking material]. Oh and I do have a hammock, if I didn't mention that previously. It's rather large and very fluffy.  But it makes the right side somewhat cramped. So I'll need to move it to a taller room when we get around to making room additions.


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## likeaboss (Jun 10, 2012)

Hamsters aren't THAT bad there are some good hamsters just like there are some bad rats, etc  I have four hamsters, three dwarves and 1 teddy bear. The dwarves aren't nice. They are more for looking at, JUst a different type of pet. They aren't unintellegent though.


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## watthemath (Jun 15, 2012)

Yeah, I realize there are always exceptions. Slightly off topic, but I also have hermit crabs. They're more of a "look at" pet. So I'm glad I didn't end up getting more. Haha. They're extremely intelligent though. I love 'em.


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## Raturday (May 26, 2012)

I've found that the only dwarf hamsters that are consistently nice are the chinese dwarfs and robo dwarfs! The robos aren't for holding though, they will jump right out of your hand!

Anyways, congrats on your new rats! That looks like a pretty sweet cage set up and can only get better


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## EleashaC (Jan 30, 2012)

Congratulations on your new ratties! I ended up with mine in almost the same way-- went to a pet store with a friend (who was looking for a mouse), and we both walked out with a rat! (Which later became fifteen rats on my part, and eight on hers-- long story.) I very much doubt you'll have to worry about any aggression between your boys. Since they're littermates, and have been together since birth (which is, of course, more important than actually being related), it's very unlikely they'll scrap with each other. Rats are very sociable creatures; usually, the only time you'll have any real social problems is when introducing adults, or an adult to a youngster... and even then, they usually work it out. 

More space, of course, would be awesome for them. A couple extra rooms certainly can't go amiss, but they're still very little, so you've got time.


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## CarrieD (Nov 20, 2011)

Very nice set up to start. I'd second the suggestion to put mesh in the lids the same way it is in the sides - not so much for ventilation, (looks like plenty to me), but it will give you a place to hang stuff from the top. 

Maltey's suggestion for more levels/things to climb on is a good one. They like to hang out at the top of the cage. I have an assortment of wire cupboard dividers that work great - keep your eye open at the dollar stores for inspiration - even pieces of PVC pipe. Almost anything can be a toy. You may already have one, but some kind of little hidey house is a good idea as well. Tissue, cereal, soda boxes work great.


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## LightningWolf (Jun 8, 2012)

Wonderful cage. Not sure if this is of any use, but it might give you some ideas for future "rooms". Its from the bally python forum, shows that not all people who breed rats for snake food are cruel people, and that they like to spoil them just the same. Sadly I can't find any other threads with these luxury tubs, just single 30 gallon or 50 gallon tubs. http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?88018-Luxury-double-tub-rat-cage.-DUW-20-pics! 
There was a guy who did something similar for his mice, but it was a vertical multi-tub cage, but for some reason he took down all of his mice videos. you can try getting two more tubs, or even just room, and attaching it to the top. they sell Ferretrail tubes, which are basically those hamster tubes just bigger and made for ferrets and rats, that you could use to attach them, or just some PVC pipe, and give them a loft. though if you do that you might want to cut out the sides as well for more ventilation if you give them another level.
For the level ideas inside the tubs, you can get some wire grids and use Zipties to attach them, and then cover the wire grid with either 1/4 inch mesh or some fleece, or if you have any left over plastic you can use that to make the levels.


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## watthemath (Jun 15, 2012)

Thank you all very much! I looked at the website and read your guys' comments, and I got some great ideas! Thanks! I do have one question about fighting. Our rats "fight" sometimes. I've only hear either rat squeak just once. So that leads me to think that these "fights" are them just playing or trying to establish dominance? It's not just one rat that starts it. They both take turns chasing the other and rolling around on the ground. And they don't only do it in their cage [which is still plenty big enough for both of them]. They'll even do it when they're out of their cage for free-roam time and have a vast amount of space to run around. Is this normal?


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## JessyGene (Feb 27, 2012)

I'd say the squeaking is normal. My little girls do it all the time when they are play fighting. As long as neither of your rats are actually being hurt (eg blood being drawn) then its just normal play fighting


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## Flashygrrl (Feb 8, 2012)

Yup, no blood no foul. My girls do it all the time.


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## Valitra (Jun 27, 2012)

Sounds like they are getting along fine actually!


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