# Respiratory illness?



## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

I was holding my rat, Ace, a few minutes ago and he started making these noises for a few minutes. And then he stopped. I'm still beyond worried because I've never heard a rat make that sort of sound before. What should I do? Would taking him to the vet be the best option? It sounded extremely similar to the rat in this video except it was a little more quiet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21-pn5KRY-A


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

I should probably add that he has no other signs of illness. He also stopped making the noises about a half hour ago and has not made them since. Should I wait for more symptoms/this symptom worsening? I'm not 100% sure that he's sick, am I overly worried?


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## Shadow <3 (Jan 25, 2017)

That noise does indicate a respiratory issue of sorts, but it really just means that something is narrowing the trachea (usually swelling due to some sort of respiratory issue), causing a sound to be produced as the rat breathes (same thing as asthma attacks and wheezing, the narrowed trachea causes air rushing in to make a "wheezing"/grunting noise as the person breathes). Your likely to hear more grunting when he's active and moving just because that's when his respiratory rate will increase, and the noise might even go away all together when he's sleeping/sitting still for the opposite reason.




Its not necessarily something to worry about, as all my rats tend to get what I'd call "allergy" flare ups that last a few days during allergy season (often when my allergies act up, so do theirs). During these days they will make off and on grunting noises (but otherwise be active and healthy), and unless I see any lethargy/other symptoms I don't treat them for it. These noises go away on their own within a week, and I've never seen any sort of respiratory repercussions or damage caused by waiting them out.


However, it could be an early sign of something like a URI, so whether you take him to the vet really depends on how worried you feel. Personally, I don't take my girls in unless I see other symptoms, so I'd probably take a "watch and see" approach. Other people would say go to the vet immediately though, so its really a matter of how you feel. (As a side note, try to record the noise beforehand if you decide to go to the vets. Rats often show no symptoms when under the stress of being at the vets, and many vets won't treat an animal unless they see proof of the issue/illness.)


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## SheikahEye (Jan 1, 2018)

That's exactly how my rats sounded a few weeks ago. In fact, I looked at the same video.


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

Now I noticed that they've both been itching their sides like crazy. I gave them food this morning and Beau stopped to scratch his side with food still in his mouth. They've also been pooping and peeing a lot more than usual. I cleaned their cage on Friday and it looks like I haven't cleaned it for a week. They've even relieved themselves in places they'd normally sleep in. I should really take them to the vet now, right? Ace hasn't made a sound since yesterday when I made this topic, but these other symptoms are popping up now.


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## Shadow <3 (Jan 25, 2017)

The poop and pee wouldn't worry me unless it's a weird color/soft. My rats go through phases of randomly peeing where they sleep (indeed, some rats learn to like to "marinate" in their hammocks - when they pee there and then sleep on it (eugh!)), but I wouldn't consider these concerning symptoms, just rats being rats.


The itching is a bit more concerning, and in my experience usually means one of two things. The first is a diet too high in protein, something my girl Shadow actually suffered from when I gave her too many protein filled treats. The second is an external parasite like mites or lice, something my girl Latte recently experienced but which we solved with a small dab of revolution. In both cases, the rat would sometimes stop with food in their mouth to scratch (actually my girls will sometimes stop to scratch regardless of what they're doing, even when they don't have any skin issues), so that wouldn't worry me too much in particular.


If your worried, the vet is always the best option. Nothing sounds too concerning to me, but I'd always say that the owner knows their pet(s) best. There have been quite a few times I knew my rats were going to get sick before they exhibited severe symptoms, so it can pay to pay attention to that gut feeling. Then again, when I first got my rats I brought them to the vet so often for things I thought were concerning, but that turned out to be nothing. 


It's really your call, and if your really worried, then it might be best to go to the vet to at least get peace of mind.


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## athenianratdaddy (Dec 20, 2017)

I don't think the itching and the wheezing are related. Personally, If I heard these wheezing noises, I would start thinking about making a vet appointment in a week or two (or when the next paycheck comes in). But I'm not sure what the vet could do about it, besides prescribing antibiotics. On the other hand rats can go for weeks/months with these wheezing sounds without any more severe consequences.


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

I decided that I'm going to convince my parents to take the rats in for a checkup to give me some peace of mind. Besides, the vet says to take them in every 6 months due to their ability to hide illness so well, so I might as well. Ace made the noise again early this morning and he seems to be packing on a lot of weight. I also noticed some polymorphin in the hammock they regularly nap in. I'm only about 30% sure that they're sick, but they're my first rats and I just want another opinion from a person who can physically see them (no offense to you guys, you obviously know what you're talking about through past experience, I just think a physical examination is more accurate). I constantly have been worrying since the day I posted this and I don't want to any longer. Lucky for me, there's a vet who sees rats only 3 minutes from my house which is very convenient. I'll keep you guys updated!


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## athenianratdaddy (Dec 20, 2017)

I think it's a good decision for you and your parents, and it'll allow you to get some peace of mind. Keep us posted and good luck.


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## Steffy (Oct 6, 2017)

> That noise does indicate a respiratory issue of sorts, but it really just means that something is narrowing the trachea (usually swelling due to some sort of respiratory issue), causing a sound to be produced as the rat breathes (same thing as asthma attacks and wheezing, the narrowed trachea causes air rushing in to make a "wheezing"/grunting noise as the person breathes). Your likely to hear more grunting when  he's active and moving just because that's when his respiratory rate will increase, and the noise might even go away all together when he's sleeping/sitting still for the opposite reason.


I can confirm that from my own experience with asthma and my rat's respiratory issues. However, I find it very uncomfortable not being able to breath properly when my bronchia contract, especially if I need to exert myself (run for the bus, cycle up a hill). It's always a great relief to take salbutamol from a puffer in those situations. 
As it's not feasible giving a rat an asthma puffer, my vet suggested giving her another liquid bronchodilator, Nuelin (theophylline), which seems to help her breathing at least a little. (She gets 0.35 ml twice a day at 390 g, it is very sugary so she loves it.)
I bought it over the counter at a normal pharmacy, I don't know if it's over the counter in the US though.


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

My parents still won't let me make an appointment. I finally got Ace's noises on recording, so I can use that. He also seems a bit better when I use my ultrasonic oil diffuser with only water and no oil in my room, so I've been leaving that on as much as possible. If they aren't sick, I'd at least like to get their nails trimmed because I'm not comfortable enough and their nails are getting long.


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## Phoene (Dec 21, 2017)

Why are they not letting you take them to the vet?


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

I'm not 100% sure my rats are sick and they don't want to waste money if they're not.


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## rattiemom4life (Jan 5, 2018)

If you can't take them to the vet, I highly suggest ordering meds online. Its better than letting your rat suffering.


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

How much is a vet trip usually for two rats (I'm bringing Beau for a nail trim and checkup if I go)? My mom said vet trips are expensive but I think that's generally for cats and dogs rather than small animals. Plus, it's not like they're having surgeries performed on them.


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## Phoene (Dec 21, 2017)

The vet is pretty expensive for small animals too. With my vet the first trip costs $60 for the checkup. After their first trip is is only $30. But all vets have different prices. When I took one of my girls the medicine only costed about $5 so if you are there you can ask the vet if they are sick or not.


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

For me, expensive vet care is $100 or more. I'm willing to help my parents pay for my rats if necessary, it's my responsibility to ensure they live comfortable lives, so I have to get them to the vet when I feel they need it.


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## Phoene (Dec 21, 2017)

It is actually the other way around for me. I pay for my rat's vet bills/food/cage/everything and my parents will help me out if I need it. I would say to go because if it gets worse it will probably cost more as well as being worse for the rat.


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

I pay for everything except vet bills personally. I don't have a job, I can't risk having to pay for a surgery while my parents have that money.


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

Well, after much persuasion, my dad booked an appointment for tomorrow!


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## Phoene (Dec 21, 2017)

Good work!


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

Just got home from the vet's! The appointment was $127 total (including meds) which my mom isn't too thrilled about haha. Both vets were very nice and handled my rats wonderfully giving them the whole baby talk treatment! They had had rats in the past, so they were very reliable. If you live in Wisconsin, I would highly recommend them! They're called the Advanced Animal Hospital.Anyways, Ace does in fact have a respiratory illness. Apparently I caught it pretty early. Good thing I trusted my gut! The vet prescribed Baytril and Doxycycline Hyclate. They both need to take the meds twice a day so that Beau doesn't end up catching the infection, but sadly he's the one who's been putting up more of a fight. Ace takes both meds with no hesitation whatsoever and even tries to steal Beau's. Doxycycline is very bitter and Beau despises it even with the aid of apple sauce. If any of you know how to make force-feeding easier, PLEASE tell me. He's quite the squirmy little guy.


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## rattiemom4life (Jan 5, 2018)

Let us know what the vet says!



ChloeJ said:


> Well, after much persuasion, my dad booked an appointment for tomorrow!


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

I got Beau to take his meds without needing to force-feed. Basically, I just get the meds into the syringe first to ensure that I'm giving him the right amount, then I just release it onto my hand and he licks it right up without hesitation. I think he was scared of the syringe and that's the only reason why he was refusing to take meds. Ace will eat ANYTHING, however. I found that he willingly drinks the bitter medicine, doxycycline, without any baby food or apple sauce.


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

DAY 3 OF MEDS: Ace is still making noises when he's resting. They're less frequent, but they still happen at least once a day. I don't know how long it takes to see the meds actually helping, yet it's still only day 3 so I'm not extremely worried.


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## Phoene (Dec 21, 2017)

I think it takes a week or more to see a result. How long did the vet say to have them on the meds?


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

Three weeks for both rats.


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

DAY 5 OF MEDS: I am so freaking proud of Beau this morning. I didn't feel like getting the baby food from the kitchen this morning, so I decided to see if he would just take the doxycycline without it. When I've tried this previously, he would jerk his head away and make a face. First, I gave Ace his meds because I knew that he confidently takes them so he could possibly leave an impression on Beau and get him to take them from the syringe. To my surprise, he did! He still made that little rat face like "why do you do this to me", but there was no force-feeding involved and he just lapped it up. Yay, Beau! As for their health so far, I haven't heard Ace make noises for two days. There is definitely improvement, it's just coming along slowly.


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

DAY 12 OF MEDS: Well, I'm pretty sure that the respiratory infection is completely cleared up. There have been zero symptoms from Ace whatsoever and he's back to his old self. I feel really confident because I was able to identify the illness so early, I guess I learned to trust my gut 100% with my animals in the future. Hopefully both of my boys will remain healthy for as long as possible now and live long lives. Still have 9 days left to give them meds, but I don't think there will be any change in their condition.


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## Topple (Jan 11, 2018)

Hey, 

I am a new rat owner so I don't have much in the way of advice, I just wanted you to know my young boys started making this exact same noise lately as well. I called the vet to make an appointment but it can take a huge amount of time to get in to see someone, especially if there are not many vets available who know how to treat rats, so making an appointment as soon as you feel concern can never hurt. You can always cancel it if they seem to improve beforehand! 



athenianratdaddy said:


> Personally, If I heard these wheezing noises, I would start thinking about making a vet appointment in a week or two (or when the next paycheck comes in). But I'm not sure what the vet could do about it, besides prescribing antibiotics. On the other hand rats can go for weeks/months with these wheezing sounds without any more severe consequences.


Thanks for this response to the post, even though I am not OP. This made me feel a little more optimistic about my own situation in waiting another week for the vet!


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

DAY 21 OF MEDS: Finally, the three weeks are up. I'm confident that both boys are healthy now, so the Baytril and Doxycycline worked wonderfully.


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## Phoene (Dec 21, 2017)

Great news!


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

So... exactly one month after meds and Ace has begun making wheezing noises again. Beau was even making some noises, but they didn't sound like the ones Ace has been making. I don't know what to do. Would the vet even be able to help me at this point? What could be causing yet _another _respiratory issue? Last time, the vet said the issue was due to mycoplasma.
When I brought this up to my parents, they were like, "I guess we'll have to go to the vet yet again in a few days," but I really don't want to make them unless I know it's the only solution. Can I try anything at home? I hate that they have to spend all this money on my rats. However, if I have to, I won't hesitate to take them in. I just want to know what could be wrong. Anyone?


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## Steffy (Oct 6, 2017)

Yes, it can happen that they just start wheezing again straight after the course of antibiotics has finished. The thing with Mycoplasma is that antibiotics are not effective in treating it. Antibiotics treat the secondary infections that may take over when the rat's immune system is weakened and contribute to him being unwell. Also, you may just have a rat with very sensitive airways. 

I have a candidate like that, too. She used to be fine for a few weeks after antibiotics and then start wheezing again. Now she just never stops wheezing while her companion is fine. 
My rat vet said it would be best for my snorty wheezy Blazy to be on antibiotics for the rest of her life. It would prevent the formation of (further) abscesses in her lungs. I'd suggest to take your ratties back to the vet and ask what else they can do and if they think life long antibiotics were an option. Even if they think that's not a good idea they can check the lungs for any fluids/obstructions and hopefully give you some peace of mind.

You can give your rats some decongestant and/or bronchodilator to try to reduce the wheezing. My vet recommended theophylline (0.35 ml of 5.3 g/L for 380 g of rat twice a day) and bromhexine (0.3 ml of 1.6g/L for 380 g of rat once a day) which I could buy over the counter as Nuelin syrup and Bisolvon forte for humans.


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## ChloeJ (Sep 27, 2017)

I read your post aloud to my parents and my dad said he's going to call the vet today and ask and see if they can provide advice over the phone so they don't charge us. Hoping it all works out -- I woke up at 4am to Ace making his wheezing sounds.


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## Steffy (Oct 6, 2017)

I hope the vet can give you some advice and peace of mind. 
Even if your rat(s) is(are) wheezing, it's not the end of the world. If they're other wise fine and active they're not in too bad a state but I would definitely keep an eye on their condition and take them for another exam if they get worse.


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