# I finally have rats! Squee!



## KayZee (Oct 13, 2015)

I was going to go with my daughter and husband to pick the boys out and bring them home, but time got away from us and I was in the bath when I realized we needed to leave now to make it to Petsmart on time (no breeders within 2 hours of here, at least.) I told my husband and daughter to pick out the friendliest ones, but my husband said the employee was being difficult and just wanted them to point 2 out of the tank and be done with it. So, my daughter (8 years old) just picked 2 based on her gut instincts. Both allowed the employee to pick them up without freaking out, so that's good.

When they got home, I opened the box to meet them. One, a PEW we've named Elliot, was clearly terrified, burrowed under the other one. The other, a grey and white dumbo we've named Oliver, was immediately curious and friendly. They both look to be almost fully grown. I started talking to Oliver as soon as I noticed him noticing me, and we basically instantly bonded. I put my face close to his, and he started licking my nose and touching his nose to mine.  He was (IMO) soon considering climbing out of the box (and I was not ready for that!), so we decided to introduce them to their cage. We put the box against the lower cage door and slowly tilted the box down to make it easy for them to jump down to the bottom floor, and Oliver was immediately off and exploring. 

Elliot waited a few minutes before venturing off (looking for Oliver, I suspect), and climbed up to the second story shelf, found one of the little "houses", and has not been out since. Heh. 

Oliver spent a long time happily exploring the ground floor before seeing Elliot up higher and deciding to make his way up there. He went and snuggled with Elliot for a while, and they napped together. (So cute!) Oliver's now explored almost every nook and cranny of the cage, rearranged some things, hidden some food here and there, crawled on the kids' hands and taken treats out of their hands, and just seems to be happy and thriving. That rat is REALLY into people. Whenever we go into the room. he's at the side of the cage closest to us, wanting to touch us and smell us and generally interact with us.

I'm not really worried about trust training or anything with Oliver, since it's all going easily and incredibly naturally. I'm thinking with Elliot, I'm just going to give him a while to adjust before I figure out how to "deal" with him, if he doesn't just naturally come around. He kind of lets us pet him, but he gently nipped my daughter (she said it didn't even hurt, but it startled her) when she tried to pet his face once. I really have no idea what kind of rat he is as a rat-person, besides "very timid right now".

Any advice on when and how to start trust training him? Or should I just read the stickie again? I'm thinking of just mostly leaving him alone for a few days, at least, while he gets used to the sounds and rhythms and people and smells etc of the house, and works out how he feels about Oliver and him being sole "roommates" in the cage. They could have been arch nemesis in the Petsmart tank for all I know. ??? But my daughter said part of the reason she picked him out was that he looked lonely, as the only PEW in there, and he was in a corner all alone. I deeply suspect they came from different litters, if not different breeders. Oliver sure does act like he was handled rather a lot as a kitten. Elliot, the opposite.

I'm hoping that since Oliver's such a happy and confident "alpha" type rat, I'll be able to "use" that to teach Elliot to feel safe and thus more confident. We'll see. I should really not even be worrying about all that yet, right? Any thoughts?


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## Kuildeous (Dec 26, 2014)

As a first-time owner with an experience count of three rats, I can really only parrot what I've heard, which is to say that you should start bonding with Elliot as soon as possible. I can't say for certain that it's the right advice, but I'm sure it's not the wrong advice, so go for it. The worst that could happen is that you spend a couple hours together, and he remains timid (okay, the very worst is he attacks you, but that sounds unlikely). 

Having both in a confined space is probably a good idea because it's likely that Oliver is going to go nuts playing with you, and that'll show Elliot that you're not a big scary monster. If your confined space is large enough, invite your daughter and/or husband to sit in there with you. If not, then feel free to swap out people. 

My wife and I have a fun bonding moment where we stand face-to-face so that our arms are close to each other. Rats then hop from one person to the next. If the three of you stand in a really tight circle, you could let the rats climb over all of you. I've found that rats are more confident when they initiate the climbing on top. I have a fairly shy rat who pooped a lot when I picked her up out of the cage. When I sat on the couch with her and let her hop up on me on her own terms, she was much less nervous. Now she lets me pick her up without pooping and will even lick my hand as I do so.


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## Ratloved (Oct 4, 2015)

As much as I hate to say this because I think all rats should be saved, pet smart should not have treated a customer that way. If you are not satisfied with the animal you brought home , I would take him back, talk to the manager and ask to actually pick out a rat. Just my opinion. You are paying customer and should be satisfied.


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## KayZee (Oct 13, 2015)

So far this morning, it's actually working out ok with Elliot. He's taking food and treats gently from our hands and not minding being petted at all. I think he'll be ok. Part of it seems to be that he's just really, really, really lazy and likes to chill a LOT. lol. I _was_ thinking about just taking him back, tho. My husband clarified earlier today that this Petsmart has a set-up where the tanks are only accessible through a sliding door in the back which can only be gotten to from an "employees only" hall. Weird, and sucky.


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## Kuildeous (Dec 26, 2014)

Still, the store should make every effort to ensure that you get the pet you want. That employee obviously has a feeder-rat mentality. Who cares what you get, since it's going to be fed to a snake anyway? You definitely should have been treated better than that. After all, you wouldn't just want a puppy shoved at you without checking out the batch, right? 

I had thoughts about my shy rat. We didn't actually pick her out. She was a loaner rat when one of our original two came down with an URI. The store said they'd try to treat her and let us take home one of the feeder rats to keep our rat company. Sadly, that rat died the next day, so we kept the loaner. She's still a sweet rat, but she was so slow to trust that I was seriously considering talking the store into doing a swap. In the end, we kept her, and now she's a part of our lives. I just wish she didn't find it funny to nip at my wife when she's not looking.


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## Verucasdad (Aug 31, 2015)

I am glad that Elliot seems to be coming around. I have a differing opinion when it comes to "difficult" pets. When I make a commitment to a little soul, it is a life commitment. I have a cat who could be considered feral. After some years, she still won't be petted and doesn't snuggle. Never in my wildest dreams would I ever let her go. It's the same with my two little ladies. I recently went through shingles, but I thought at first that my rats scratched me and made me sick. The first thing I said to my husband was that I was not going to get rid of the rats. Thankfully, it wasn't due to them that I got sick. I was willing to glove up and wear long sleeves for the duration of their lives. Instead of making these animals adjust, I do. My main goal is to make sure they have the best life possible for the time we are given. Now, before I get bashed, let me tell you this is my own philosophy. I understand the other side of the coin and the expectations we have when we adopt new critters. My main point is to give them a chance.


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## Ratloved (Oct 4, 2015)

I don't have a different opinion from you, all my animals are rescues, a dog I got at 5weeks who is now 13, a second dog adopted at 2. Now 6. A cat adopted ? That I have had for 14+ years, and my 6 rats, however, I picked them out after being able to hold them, get to know them a little bit and make the choice to adopt these particular animals. Someone didn't hand them to and say " here ya go, these are the ones you want". Period, no chance to hold Them, choose which ones other than looks, bond for that instant connection. That's just not fair.


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## Ratloved (Oct 4, 2015)

And I am not bashing you, basically agreeing you, however, I assume you made the choice to adopt the animals you have, you picked them out?


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## gin (Sep 11, 2015)

Aww I hope things get easier with Elliot. Do you have pictures of them yet? (I love looking at pictures. I'm a 5 year old trapped in a 30 something year old's body lol)


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## Ratloved (Oct 4, 2015)

And sorry kayzee for getting off the subject. I am excited for you what ever you decide to do. Rats are wonderful pets. I did forget to mention that out of my six rescues the two that didn't trust me and were more wary are now the ones that are the closest to me.


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## Verucasdad (Aug 31, 2015)

In my instance, Veruca (the aloof cat) was given to me without me meeting her. Her siblings had been killed by a dog and my heart went out to her. As for my rats, I really didn't get a chance to hold them first (as I was a newbie and didn't know I could demand to do that) and just picked ones that were alert. I now have one aggressive, but loving Endora who wants to explore the moon and one shy, but loving Esmerelda who loves to get snacks from my hand. The fourth adoptee, Raven, picked me at the shelter. She actually walked away from another family that was looking at her and basically demanded that I take her home. My caution is not to make a snap decision about re-homing or returning pets because they don't live up to the expectations you set for them. Use this forum as a way to get a LOT of ideas. There are always stories about people who give up animals because they aren't "cute" anymore or they are "old" or "too hyper". Now aggressiveness might be an issue, especially if you can't wean it out of them.


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## Rattie2Love (Sep 28, 2015)

Congrats on your new ratties . If their snuggling together that's a good sign . Wish you all the best .
Just wanted to mention that I didn't get a choice because my small town pet shop only had 1 when I called & I've wanted to have more rats for years . So I just went & picked her up . Was told they were getting more in the following week . Again they had 1 which I think I was the lucky one cause it was another girl  
I see it like I was given 2 gifts . One is a little shier , that just means I have to show her a little more affection .. It's all good


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## KayZee (Oct 13, 2015)

No worries about getting off topic! I'm a huge fan of "derails" within online discussions, for real. That's the way normal conversations go IRL and it actually annoys me when I'm on forums where the mods don't let people just...talk.

Anyway, Elliot totally is coming around. He's letting us pet him whenever and however we want, takes treats from our hands without fear, and everything. Tonight we took Oliver out of the cage for a while to snuggle and interact with outside of the cage, and tomorrow we'll try that with Elliot, too. 

Question: When we took Oliver out, he was totally cool and curious, etc, and ended up snuggling into, umm, my crotch, to be honest, to take a nap. lol 
From the cage not 3 feet away, Elliot started making these sounds I've never heard him make before. Like a chattering type sound... hard to explain. When I put Oliver back in the cage, I noticed Elliot had pooped 3 times, and it was really potent smelling poop. Is there a chance that Elliot was scared we were murdering (or take away for forever, or whatever) his friend, was trying to call him back or otherwise call out to him with the chatter, and the poop was "fear poop"?

Question #2: After Oliver's nap, I tried to practice scooping him up with two hands, from underneath, a couple of times, so he and I would both be more comfortable with it. The first time was only for a second to move him to the middle of the bed, and he was fine with it. The second time, I tried to actually hold him for a few seconds without obviously moving him somewhere else, and he sort of freaked out and started kicking and squealing. I quickly set him back down like we both were positioned when he napped, and I let him chill like that till he stopped, like, hyperventilating. (his breathing was SUPER fast at first.) When I picked him up again I made sure he saw that I was just putting him back in his cage, and he was cool with that.
Have I, like, traumatized him by holding him in a way that made him squeal? As soon as he was back in the cage, I handed him a yogurt drop to apologize and let him know I'm sorry for scaring him. He _seems_ to still like me well enough. I really, _really_ don't want to make him paranoid about being handled.


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## KayZee (Oct 13, 2015)

Oh, and pics of them will be forthcoming later tonight!  I love them so much!


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## KayZee (Oct 13, 2015)

Verucasdad said:


> I am glad that Elliot seems to be coming around. I have a differing opinion when it comes to "difficult" pets. When I make a commitment to a little soul, it is a life commitment. I have a cat who could be considered feral. After some years, she still won't be petted and doesn't snuggle. Never in my wildest dreams would I ever let her go. It's the same with my two little ladies. I recently went through shingles, but I thought at first that my rats scratched me and made me sick. The first thing I said to my husband was that I was not going to get rid of the rats. Thankfully, it wasn't due to them that I got sick. I was willing to glove up and wear long sleeves for the duration of their lives. Instead of making these animals adjust, I do. My main goal is to make sure they have the best life possible for the time we are given. Now, before I get bashed, let me tell you this is my own philosophy. I understand the other side of the coin and the expectations we have when we adopt new critters. My main point is to give them a chance.


No bashing from me.  I'm almost that hard core. I've only rehomed one pet in my life. It was a dog (ten years ago) who gave my then 2 year old kid a "warning" bite serious enough to break the skin, and the dog was an actual mauling hazard when it came to children. I was thankfully able to rehome him with my dog-less mom, who loved him and treated him well until he died.

I think in an ideal world, people should have the _ability_ to return an adopted pet if it's very clear it's not working, and not likely to work out for anyone (animal or human), within 2 weeks or so. Both of my current dogs were adopted with the agreement that if the dogs showed ANY signs of being child-aggressive, I'd bring them back immediately. Such agreements make it easier for good owners to adopt pets that are a good fit for them, and encourages responsible pet ownership, I think. What's a huge problem for one person might be a non-issue or a workable situation for another person.

With Elliot, I decided he was almost definitely a "workable situation", even in the worst case scenario that he would never be able to be picked up regularly without gloves. I'd be ok with having one pet rat who is a "normal" pet rat, and another who is mostly just a "roommate" to that rat. lol. He's going to be a lot more than that, though, now, I'm certain. He's a normal pet rat, too. I seriously suspect he's just almost blind, and that's affected his ability to act "normal" around both humans and other rats. He's definitely not some vicious rat who attacks hands as soon as they come near him, or something really alarming like that. I think he just has special needs, and as long as we humans keep them in mind in how we interact with him, (especially in these early days) he'll be a wonderful pet rat.  (And he already is a wonderful pet rat in his own way!)


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## KayZee (Oct 13, 2015)

Pics!






Elliot, left, and Oliver, right. 







Elliot likes to hang out in the chew log.







Sorry the pic is so blurry. Oliver is yawning here.


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## gin (Sep 11, 2015)

Awwwwww they're so cute!!!!


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## KayZee (Oct 13, 2015)

gin said:


> Awwwwww they're so cute!!!!


Thanks! I think so, too!


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