# Possibly pregnant rat. Need maternity cage suggestions?



## Naku

Here's the story. A week and a half ago I left on an eight day vacation and left my two girls Ava and Felicity with a friend. Unbeknownst to me, Felicity died of a stroke and was replaced about two days after my departure. I was not notified of this until the day I got back. I miss her a lot and had nothing to do with the placement of the newcomer so there was no quarantine or anything ((A bit late for that after spending a week together.)) Her name is Persephone. 

She was housed with males at the pet store that he and his kids bought her from: http://arkpetsandmore.com/ and may be pregnant. Going off of my first two girls the chance has to be at least 50-50 as Ava was pregnant when I got her but lost the litter at birth and Felicity wasn't. 

She hasn't ballooned in size yet and can't be less than a week and a half in if she is, so hardly showing or something along those lines. But, what I have noticed, is her shape is more up and down opposed to sleek and thin, aside from when she stretches of course. I don't notice a big bulge but I've still noted the difference between apparent weights of her and both my other girls had when I first got them. I have seen at least a couple nipples but nothing close to twelve or all that apparent.

Her personality is by far, the most dire in difference to my other girl's. I'm not sure what to make of it. I mean, she is interested in her surroundings, eats, drinks, goes to the bathroom, interactive etc... but she doesn't climb the walls or use the wheel like Ava does and simply stays in one of her favored corners. She is also the calmest, most trusting rat I've met as the first time I held her, twenty minutes in, she was nestled into my arm bruxing. She climbs onto my hand no problem which is something Ava won't do even after knowing me ((She's fine once she is on me though.)) So, I am thinking that she is just lazy or subtly territorial and reserved. She is not at all violent. Doesn't really have much interest in nesting but likes the ones Ava makes, they are friendly cage mates, hardly any fighting, the occasional pounce and groom but though she has no problem dog-piling with Ava I have caught her on multiple occasions by herself, laying but not sleeping. This concerns me... she also doesn't seem interested in the treats and while Ava isn't either, she still will drag them off and hoard them. Persephone won't past sniffing it.She LOVES to groom. She will groom anything she can get her hands on, herself, her cage mate, myself etc... .

Whenever she comes up to interact with me she seems a little concerned if Ava moves into her corner. They get along though, far better than Felicity did with Ava who tussled comparably a lot and these two seem to have no problem with each other. Persephone acts dominant despite her small size in comparison to her cage mate, I think, she's probably just under two months so yes, she is really, really young. This was about the age Ava had hers and that didn't go well at all so I'm worried. Personally, I would love babies but most definitely not if she is going to be harmed by this which I have read is more likely to happen to both younger and older rats, so I have come to hope that she isn't just for that fact. 

But here is the issue. Just in case she is, and if she isn't, I guess I'll have an extra cage or bin or whatever. I need a maternity cage solution. My problem is that, though I have not checked, I don't know whether the other cages we have have a deep pan or not ((We have a closet full of bird cages.)) So, if none of them do, I'm screwed. I do however have bins/totes and have heard of bin cages but there is a problem with that to, I have cats and my sister isn't always the best with keeping the door shut. But the cage, you see, I live with my parents and do not specifically have permission to take a cage and though neither would care, it annoys them because they don't see this as a necessity, they think my rats like they do fish really. I do however, have no problem doing this behind their backs, but have to wait for the opportunity to do it, ((All I have to do is steal the cage and manage to bring it to my room for cleaning without getting caught right away,)) I do not really if they find out after the point but the getting it is the initial issues.

My point. Would that work? What should it have in it other than food, a water bottle, and bedding. If this is not acceptable then how do I cat-proof a bin without the proper materials to do it ((The answer is a screen I am thinking,)) again, this is just for if she is and if it turns out she isn't then I will have an extra ready cage laying around.

But, I theoretically have about two weeks to come up with a solution which is why I have this exclaimed.

But another thing, if I further suspect she is ((Suddenly balloons, sudden nesting etc...,)) then do I immediately move to the other cage or do I wait a little longer. Will everything be alright if she is them in the cage with Ava? Ava was with child once but no longer and again there has been no fighting so I am wondering if the maternity cage isn't necessary. Correct me if I am wrong and it is not an unlikely assumption that I am.

Help? I cannot post pictures. My Verizon flip-phone will not let me and my webcam would be extremely difficult for obvious reasons. But, I will be up to answer questions. I could just be overreacting to past experience as well and I am not definite in my thoughts on her situation. Please, no hate but you may constructively criticize me if you'd like.

Help?


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## Zabora

I got a 10 gallon tank and lid cost me bout 10$ for the lid and the tank was free on craigslist. Totes work but you need to drill lots of holes for ventelation. I used blankets I got from dollar tree and sime soft cut up towels. After she gave birth I cleaned out the tank alittle and added some soft cut up shirts from my husbands work. They were too small and I used one to maake a shirt for one of my dogs. The scaps went to Delilah. Just make sure if you do use a plastic tote it has a lid that locks down.Delilah didn't show till week 2 or so and then it was just a nipple. Then 4. Then she blew up and went into the tank when she started to nest. You can use shredded newspaper. She should have her own tank when it comes time to deliver. Its good she's so mellow. But she might become aggressive once the babies are born. On the post oh my....a user documented her rats pregnancy and Delilahs pregnancy can be seen under I think Delilah is pregnant...if you need reference pictuers of pregnancy in rats...


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## Naku

A ten gallon isn't to small? I'll see if we have one of those in the basement real quick  ((We might have one and I just haven't found it yet, we've owned fish as well,)) would they sell a cover at Walmart? Or Petco? I can't get to the place where she was bought right now ((On the other side of town.)) You're positive the plastic won't splinter? Yeah, they are latch-able though, when closed the cats cannot get into them obviously.

I THINK, she's got a little more of a belly than normal but then again, so does everybody if you squint.

I also found a scale and weighed them, not quite sure what it measures in but it seems to have multiple settings. I think, it measures in grams but I am not sure. It says: "Max:5000g d=1g."

Persephone is 7.87? I think. About that at least or according to the scale. Does that sound right? I know next to nothing about weight. I will check tomorrow to see if there is any gain.

I just checked and we DO have a 10 gallon fish tank but it looks like it may be being used... . The bin is currently the best bet.


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## Zabora

Push on the bin and see how it stands up. If it folds but doesn't crack you should be good. Some say 20gal is best but 10gals works for me. Delildh keeps them all in one small pile. I got the lid at petco for 10$ or so. If you want to ust the bin cut lots of air holes high up so she can't chew her way out. As for the weight, take a base weight and then weigh again every 2 days. Each rat is different and won't weigh the same. If you notice more nipples and her getting fat in the hips she's probably pregnant. Rats gestation is 21 days. Its been almost 2 weeks since you got her? She should show soon if she is pregnant. Make sure its not a 6 inch bin either. It needs to be deep to prevent chewing and even then its no garantee shr won't chew out. That's why I went with the tank.


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## Naku

Alright, I think I can manage that. Yeah, it has been a little less than two weeks since I got her, so about that. I haven't really seen her chew on anything but food or so much as climb the cage so I'm not sure she would try all that hard to get out. Though, something odd about Persephone is that she seems to radiate heat the my other rattie does not... she, Ava or both of them have also made a contained circular formation dead center of the cage that connects with one of the two cleared corners, haven't seen that one yet. Is that at all nesting behavior or had they just been digging. Only Ava seems to be interested in the paper towel strips I stuck in there.

So, yeah. I will find a container, poke some holes in it, set it up and wait a little longer for changes  Will a foot long height work or should it be taller?


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## Zabora

I would go with 2 feet if you got it. Dean nests and he is a boy. Likes to dig his blankets up around himself. Never took to a hammock. Not sure about the heat thing. It could be infection for all I know. Delilah didn't get hot. Rats are funny about pregnancy. If they don't like the set up, they will find one they di like. Even of its in the walls.


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## Naku

23rd - 220 g - 5 PM
24th - 222 g - 5 PM

Or so far, she hasn't gained much so either it is just cause she's early on, the food, or she isn't pregger's at all. I do however see another couple nipples if that at is at all worthy of noting, she MIGHT have a slight bulge. ((Might.)) Do you know, is there an easier way to get her to remain calm when weighing her? I've been trying to put her in a box and then weighing her but she she freaks out every time, any ideas?


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## Hey-Fay

A ten gallon tank is preferable, this way it's small enough to encourage mummy to nurse and take care of the pups but also large enough for her to stretch her legs a bit. Get a mesh lid and some cage clips, they're about 3-4 bucks and are at any and all pet stores. You can use fleece or blanket scraps as bedding but a bag of carefresh or paper litter work just as well; I used a white off brand of carefresh when my Lilly had her litter, I chose white so I could see when she went into labor and if there were any complications I could see that as well. She's going to need extra protein, and since she's still a baby herself I would put her on Oxbow young rat and mouse food and give her the occasional scrambled egg (no salt or pepper) and wet dog/cat food high in protein. When and if she starts to get rounder or looks as if she's swallowed a tennis ball then that's the time to move her from the main cage and into the maternity tank. Now it's time to prepare for the pups. If you start to believe that she is preggers it'd be a good idea to go out and buy some soy based infant formula and a tiny paintbrush (or this waterbrush, just fill it with formula and wa lah, baby rat bottle! http://www.jetpens.com/Pentel-Aquas...JD3lFErNyHofUmNEDW2M--Jjuk2xbaS9n1DcaPNbw_wcB) just incase mummy doesn't want to care for them you have a way to keep them fed and alive. Also if worse comes to worse you're going to have to wipe their bottoms to make them go since they don't have that ability to go by themselves when they're newborns. I wouldn't provide a hide for mummy though, mothers tend to be protective of their young up until they're fully weaned. If mum is over protective then lure her out with a spoonful of yogurt to check on the pups. When she does have them, assuming she's pregnant, only mess with them once (if you can help it) in the first 24 hours, just to count them, check for milk bands and check if all are alive. If any didn't make it remove them or she will more than likely eat them; it's natural for them to do so because in the wild it gets rid of potential predators finding them. 

So for now I'd make a maternity cage just incase. If she's not pregnant then you've still got a spare if something like this happens in the future. Keep an eye on her and keep us updated on her status. 
I wish you the best!


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## Hey-Fay

I've been alerted to the cons of the waterbrush and I now do not recommend it! Stick with a paintbrush! If you'd like to read about it just go to my thread in this section of the forum!


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## Naku

Alright, thank you, I will see to that^^

Also, I believe I have made a mistake in the earliest she could be along ((Suck at dates and math, got it figured out now though,)) she can't be less than nine days but if she is, she isn't less than two days past a week. Sorry about that. We got her on the 15th.

I'll keep a watch on the 10 gal I found in the basement to see if it is indeed being used or whether it is just holding stuff ((Be it known I have no idea how long either has been there but I have the feeling it will be missed if taken, I took my five gallon when it wasn't being used and it was noticed the very next day.))

But again, sorry about the dates thing. I'll still keep her monitored just to be sure though since she was housed with males prior to her departure.


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## Hey-Fay

We all get things screwed up sometimes, I'm the worst with dates and times! If you can use the ten gal wash it in a mix of white vinegar and water, don't be afraid to really add in the vinegar! It'll remove all calcium buildup and sanitize it. The mesh lid and tank clips shouldn't cost you no more than 15 bucks. They also have small water bottles that can be hung on the inside of the tank or from the lid although the clip on for the inside will more than likely be easier and cheaper to find and buy.


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## Zabora

They have waterbottles at walmart for cheap that can hang inside the tank. Its what I use. The lid still fits well. The fact that you are seeing nipples means she is probably pregnant.


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## Naku

Thanks  I have an extra water bottle laying about on the shelf that should work ((Since I only had/have two females I didn't originally have much of a need for a second,)) again, I'll see what I can do about the tank as it seems that this is the better option. If I am able to use the tank, then how long can all of them stay in there roughly ((I'm sure that they'll all need to be moved to a bigger area at some point.)) Thanks for sharing that bit on cleaning the tank as I would never have thought about that 

Her weight today at 5 PM was 226 grams. So she is gaining weight somewhat^^


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## Zabora

Make sure she gets exercise. Im not sure how much but Delilah comes out about 5 times a day for 20 minutes or so. Make sure shes not away from her babies for more then 30 minutes. They shouldnt stay in there past weaning. 5 weeks or so. But again take them out to run around for a bit and take the babies out to check that they have milk bands and to socialize them.


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## Naku

As it turns out, the ten gallon aquarium was indeed in use but earlier today we went out and bought a fifteen gallon Sterilite bin that should work in similar function and am going to modify it later  

She is getting sooooo much easier to weigh now and falls even at 230 grams, again 5 PM. 

The image provided is what I have down so far as well as an example chart I've pulled off the internet for reference from day 8 ((White.))


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## Hey-Fay

Hardware cloth and zip ties are the best way to go. It takes a little work but you'll want to cut the sides out of the bin and drill holes to fit the ties in to fasten the hardware cloth. I cut out the center of the lid on my bin cage and replaced it with hardware cloth too just so it had proper air flow.


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## Naku

We got a metal mesh screen as well. I was going to cut the top out and put a window on each side ((Using the screen.)) Will Duct-tape work to bind it or is mom strong enough to break through? ((The bin is roughly twice her height give or take a couple inches.))

What do you use to cut it with? I'm not sure scissors could puncture it very well ((Without leaving jagged edges,)) is a knife used, a saw of sorts? Lighter work? This is the part that is baffling me


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## Naku

I have to ask, with the information that she was housed with males prior to being adopted out, steadily gaining weight, possibly slightly distended stomach, the possible protrusion of a couple nipples, coming up on her third week((IF,)) and her seemingly dominant demeanor with her cage-mate Ava, would anyone here say that she is leaning towards being pregnant or just a growing girl? Again, she doesn't nest or hasn't even attempted to nest yet that I've seen ((She uses Ava's nests/cleared corners to rest instead,)) and though I can see some of her nipples they are still covered in fur. I don't know how much she weighed when she was first adopted out ((I wasn't there,)) but in the last five days she's gained thirteen grams which is one less than the example chart's 14 grams gained in the same amount of time of a doe who they knew was pregnant. But I have also read that sometimes young females about to experience a growth spurt tend to have slight pot-bellies so I am assuming that could be it too if that is true, that is. I know she is still growing and whatnot but at what rate ((Would it look the same on a chart?))

I know that I'll know in several days to a week and two days but I'm not looking for so much as an answer but an opinion on the matter. Any thoughts? 

In related news, I'm almost done with the bin. We are now using a-little-under-a-centimeter hardware cloth instead of screen, have everything cut but still have yet to bolt the pieces in place ((We're finishing the whole thing tomorrow. We're also doing the lid a bit differently, should work fine though and potentially offer slightly more ventilation which is always good.))

Her weight today was 233 grams.

So, your thoughts/better judgement or is it still a little to early to tell ((very well could be.))


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## Naku

She just experienced a drop and is now at 227 grams.


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## Zabora

Hard to say with weight not every rat is the same but if she drops more she might have lost the pups and they are being reasorbed into her body. Delilah nested her last day of pregnancy. But she was showi g in her second week. She exploded during her 3rd week.


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## Naku

She's gained two grams on the 29th and didn't any on the 30th. Shouldn't she be losing more weight? She's currently 229 grams for 2 days.


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## Hey-Fay

Just because she lost a little doesn't mean she reabsorbed the litter. Continue to prepare for little eepers just in case


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## Naku

That was only a thought/statement. She only began her third week yesterday ((Lowest possible day,)) so I will continue to monitor and weigh her/prepare for puppies for if it turns out she still is 

I have the maternity-bin finished, prepared, and made in such a way I hope should offer good ventilation ((Courtesy of my dad who was actually willing to listen to my concerns and work with them (((He helped me make it.))))) I'll move her in soon if I gain reason to believe she still is ((She grows more, suddenly starts nesting etc... .))

She does look smaller though, less distended but when she stretches out I have a different opinion entirely. If she is, I hope everything turns out fine...  Also, her and her cage-mate are suddenly fighting? more? Is this normal, this wasn't happening before the weight drop so I'm wondering if it has to do with anything.


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## Zabora

It can be. They tend to be more territorial when geiting ready to have babies. Transfer her into her maternity cage if it gets too bad


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## Naku

Alright, if it gets worse I'll transfer her over.

She was 231 grams today.


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## Zabora

Make sure she is in there by day 19. They can show out on day 20. I know its hard because you don't know the exact date, but get her in there as close as you can.


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## Naku

What do you mean by "They can show out on day 20?"


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## Hey-Fay

I believe Zabora ment they can be born on day 20. I would just put her in he maternity bin and keep an eye on her. She could be carrying a small litter.


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## Naku

I'm sorry I keep bumping the thread with my nonsense but are you thinking I should just transfer her over now? Or should I wait a while longer. I put her in their for a couple minutes the other day and she hates it, will she be okay if I do that? 

I hope she has a small litter if it turns out she is ((She couldn't possibly be carrying 15-20 in their right now.))


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## Hey-Fay

Has she gotten plumper? Is she pear shaped at all? Can you see nipples clearly? If yes to those and she's tousling with her cage mate then yes, I would move her. You can still free range her, just keep a wicked sharp eye on her and as it gets closer to the due date cut back on how long she gets to free range; last thing you need is for her to have them outside of the bin. 
She's not going to like the bin, no one does, but it has to be done. She'll start nesting in it soon if she hasn't already.

EDIT: I also wouldn't let her free range with her cage mate.


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## Zabora

Yep I was trying to say born aparently I can't type or keep a thought straight today...I understand she hates it. Delilah hates hers too. That's why you have to give her time out of the cage if indeed she is pregnant and delivers. Delilah gets 20-30 minutes 3-5 times a day. I only took her out once in 48 hours after the birth and that was to check them. I kept worrying she was gonna eat them because she was a feeder rat and is vary skiddish and Im a bIg bad predator. I was really scared when one of my dogs lIcked a baby because of the scent (DelIlah and Dean dont lIke the dogs) But she hasn't yet, I still have all 11 babies and she's a great mom. She hasn't bitten me since the babies have been born so I take that as a good sign.


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## deedeeiam

Zabora said:


> I was really scared when one of my dogs lIcked a baby because of the scent.


This is random, but I have a Rottie mix and she's very good with the critters. Mostly she just ignores them when they run all over her. I was introducing her to this one rat and she licked it -- a full out slurping lick. Well, the rat kinda got stuck on the tongue on the up lick and was basically launched over the dog's head and back behind her. And the dog didn't know what happened and was looking down at my hands like "where'd the rat go??"


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## Naku

She dropped another six grams. Right now? She just looks like a slightly smaller scale rat! What little belly she had the past couple days and especially since the first weight drop has well done flattened out :/ She is at 225 grams now.

Here are a series of pictures of what she looks like now ((I just got my new phone which has a better camera on it!)) I couldn't get her to stand up facing me so I couldn't get a picture of her undercarriage ((Looks like a rat tummy (((No nipples etc....))

Also, is she a berkshire?


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## Hey-Fay

Huh, it's possible you got lucky and she's not preggers. But it's only been ten days and they carry twenty three. For some reason I was thinking she was farther along :/ if its only been ten then you can keep her with her cagemate. Continue to monitor and weigh her. She will start nesting around the end of week two/ beginning of week three if she's really pregnant. Also yes she's a berk, but she's incorrect (if I'm not mistaken) due to the blazes on her side's running up too high.


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## Zabora

She looks a lot like my Delilah...she might have just lost the babies or wasn't pregnant at all.


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## Zabora

VarieberkSimilar to berkshire, but the white markings are very irregular and may come up the sides of the rat.


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## Naku

Thank you for the info on her markings  was wondering about that 

Ten days? She has to at least be seventeen days along, if she is or was or wasn't she should be on her third week theoretically or longer. Sorry for the misconception. I was counting up from Eight.

Though, if you count it up, they have still both gained about the same by day seventeen... ((I should really say something to that pet store >:/ )) just a note.


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## Naku

Sorry, nevermind about the same weight gain thing, I tried to do the math in my head and failed miserably ((I redid the math on my comps. calculator!))

She also gained the six back today much to my confusion... :S ((231 grams.))

Just a question? Why wouldn't she be able to free range with her cagemate? ((If she had the pups.))


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## Zabora

Females are highly protective of their litter usually. She may feel the need to fight to defend her territory and her babies. She may even eat them if she feels threaten too much by her cage mate. Best not to take that chance.


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## Hey-Fay

Ah! I wasn't counting from eight! She should still be able to be housed with her cage mate for another three to four days. But as she gets farther along put her in the bin cage. Also while free ranging closer to her due date it's not a good idea to do so with her cage mate. A number of things could go wrong and she could end up losing the litter if she really is pregnant. 
Once she's had them just give her about 10 minutes of free range while the pups are still small. Once they start getting older you can let her out for longer but never for over 30 minutes while their eyes are still closed.


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## Zabora

Well we shall know soon enough if she is or isn't...


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## Naku

Still no babies, no nipples ((I see four but they still have fur around them,)) etc... she has however gained an appreciation for the paper towels I have about her cage though she doesn't seem to get what to do with them ((To be fair though, she only caught on after Ava did it several times right in front of her.)) She's gained ten grams today and lost no more.

Though, we are doing floor time right now and about several minutes ago she suddenly went crazy. She was doing her normal thing, bouncing around and not keeping still for pictures when suddenly she bolted towards me, burrowing as hard as she could behind me ((I am sitting against something,)). At first I thought that she was just playing but she's acting downright spooked now. She's also breathing really fast and being tentative. I don't see any blood, is this a symptom of labor? Or is she likely just spooked? ((I can't find the source.))


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## Zabora

Rats usually birth within an hour or so...did she have babies? Sounds like shes just scared...


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## darkiss4428

do you have recent pictures? id love to see them


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## Naku

An hour within what? 

Nope, or at least not as of right now. I just can't figure out what spooked her, she didn't really calm down after that either  

She's in her make-shift cage now cleaning her foot and either boggling or glaring at me intensely... . Now she's sleeping... .


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## Naku

Recent pictures?


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## Zabora

Rats give birth in about an hour or so. Sometimes less sometimes more. And Darkiss wants recent pictures of your rats belly if you have them.


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